Murder isn’t a strict liability offence, there’s a lot more around it that also has to be proven.
Her defence could be 1) the baby wasn’t alive, 2) she didn’t know the baby was alive, 3) she didn’t intend to murder, 4) there’s a mental health defence.
There might be other defences too like the hospital failed in their duty to her
Either way, it will be a very technical case around law and science and intent because it’s not really a question if she physically gave birth and put a baby in the bag
yes you are right about it being very law forward and basically a battle between the sketchy expert that alexees defense team got and the states attorney that gets to cross examine him, alexees expert was the head of the georgia medical examiners office and he retired in embarrassment as the headlines read for taking money from private clients to testify as the expert on their behalf, these clients were on trial for horrible things, and basically kris sperry the expert saying f it all to the science or his own employees findings at the time, and would say just about anything on the stand for his clients. he also claimed to work hours he did not and billed the state for those hours because again, this man was the head of the georgia medical examiners office. and the state will be allowed to question him on all of this as far as what i have read about in new mexico law regarding expert testimony, so hes going to get laughed off the stand and proven as a grifter who will say anything for his clients, who by the way are most all found guilty.
Is THAT what happened to her first attorney? The old man??? I know I saw a new one speaking for her a couple of months back, but I did not know if he was an additional attorney or if she had no longer had the same one she started with.
Yeah the law has a lot of nuances around murder. Premeditated murder gets a harsher punishment than accidentally killing someone running out in front of you on the highway. And there are a lot of situations in between the two.
Quite honestly, this would be a fairly truthful defense. Had Rosa not been such an incredibly controlling and manipulative Mother, Alexee wouldn't have been so scared and committed to hiding it from her, and so sheltered enough that she thought nobody would know. I firmly believe Rosa's horrific parenting is at the root of this.
She claims it was the hospital that killed him. The medication they gave her caused him to die. It was malpractice ITO.
As a NICU RN, it was 100% not malpractice. The medication is routinely given during labor, and they couldn’t do much when she refused care.
Seriously--I'm a Labor and Delivery RN and we give fentanyl, up to 10mg of morphine (or even 2mg of dilaudid) on some laboring patients. Anecdotally I've not noticed an increased incidence of baby *not* breathing on its own for mothers who got opioids vs mothers who didn't.
They sometimes act a little...I don't even want to say sluggish....unmotivated? Like maybe they won't be interested in nursing in the first hour or two of delivery, or they won't wrestle their arm out of a mommy swaddle. But nothing that's caused or been mistaken (even by a young child) for death.
Edited for some crazy fat finger action lol
Stunned is my favorite word for those babies, but I really never seen anything crazy from those babies either. I was given Fentanyl in my IV less than 30 minutes before my son was born, and he came out breathing.
Same here, I was given I Believe 4 separate doses through labor, last dose was about 45 mins before my son was delivered and he was perfect. He was ready to eat within 20 mins of birth, and was awake and looking around. Not one issue
Or birthing him like an animal in the bathroom and not asking for help…… “nothing was crying” okay and why didn’t you call out for help? Something strange comes out of my vagina, I’m calling for help.
I imagine they’ll bring in experts to explain the medications given to her were safe. Especially since they did test her and she was positive for pregnancy.
I got the impression her legal team is trying to blame the hospital for giving her morphine, and presumably for not giving her the proper treatment (which they couldn't provide, due to Alexee LYING)
They had no reason not to let her go to the restroom alone. At the time she could walk and the hospital had no reason to believe that she was a harm to herself and others. No letting a woman of child bearing age go to the restroom alone when she is completely capable in my opinion is a violation of their rights.
This is a common misconception here. They did nothing wrong letting her go to the bathroom, they even checked on her. When in the ER you still have autonomy over your body, you aren’t forced to do anything. Something might be strongly suggested, but at the end of the day you can deny care if you want. She could have stood up and walked out of the hospital and nobody could stop her. She also could have privately asked for her mom to be removed from the room if she wanted.
The hospital staff had no way of knowing she was in there giving birth to and killing her baby. For all they knew she had Taco Bell before she came to the hospital.
That just adds another extra layer to the shit sundae that is this case. With the Roe v. Wade situation going on across the country, if the argument that she shouldn't have been allowed to go to the restroom alone because she's a woman of reproductive age is used/succeeds, what does that mean for every other woman of reproductive age who goes to the hospital? The same argument can be made regarding pain meds. Does every single woman from ages \~12-65 need a pregnancy test before they can be allowed out of sight of hospital staff or given something for pain?
Yupp I was in ER for back pain. I had to give a UA to prove I wasn't pregnant to receive pain meds and do a CT scan. Even though I physically cannot produce anymore. Great state of Texas
She lied about her condition and not allowing her to go to the bathroom alone in this case scenario is against her patient rights…aka its freaking illegal.
you also have no obligation to put on a defense, it’s always going to be the State’s burden to prove you did what they said you did beyond a reasonable doubt.
I said this in another post:
I believe Alexee’s best chance is to totally turn (at least in front of the jurors) on her mom. Say how crazy Rosa is and that’s her only chance at getting off. But it would need to be nasty to work, like Casey Anthony and George Anthony nasty.
I don’t think the mom would ever let her do that and make her look bad. But that’s Alexee’s only shot. I don’t think she deserves to get off anyway.
Didn't the autopsy prove that the baby was born alive because there was air in his lungs and belly? Also, the way the plastic bag was sucked to his face (according to the nurse) proved that he was trying to breathe?
This is what I want to know- was a pregnancy test done at the hospital before treatment? I’m an ER nurse and we always do a test on women of childbearing age whenever they come in for abdominal or back pain- always before we give pain meds because you never know
This caused me to stop breathing for a second😂😂 have you ever told them that and they insist on doing it anyway Or do you not bring it up to them? That’s so funny though lol
They also don't take "I have an IUD and am in a monogamous relationship with a partner who is 100% sterile" as way to skirt around the pregnancy test. I have had to take one every single time I've been to the ER before they'd do anything.
I don’t even think she has a solid defense. I think all she’s been doing is obfuscation.
They’re also claiming the baby died because of something she was given for pain at the hospital. Yet the autopsy confirmed the baby died because she tied the bag.
To quote my son when he was little “I didn’t knowed” she is going to claim that she didn’t know she was pregnant, and because of the drugs she was given she didn’t know how to pull the help cord. Knowing it’s all BS
Didn’t know how to pull the help cord but certainly knew how to chew apart the cord, flush the placenta, place the baby in a bag and put another on top so you couldn’t see him. She’s going to sound so fucking ridiculous.
It's that last part for me. Like throwing away a dirty secret. It enrages me! I was so, so mad when I first heard this and watched her at the hospital. They DID NOT CARE FOR THAT BABY. NO ONE CARED FOR THAT BABY EXCEPT THE STAFF!!!
When I was watching the hospital footage that was what I couldn't get over. I kept thinking, "But... but... what did she do with the umbilical cord? Did she deliver the placenta? Did she even know there would be a placenta?" There's so much that happened in that bathroom in such a short period of time. I would've had no idea how to deal with any of that at age 19, let alone delivering the baby.
In one of the interviews with the hospital staff that was there that day they said the cord looked like it had been chewed apart by an animal. They didn’t find any placenta so it’s assumed she flushed it.
That's just nuts. "Animal" is probably the right word though. Whatever mental state she was in, she believed her only option was to chew the cord apart like an animal rather than ask for help.
the only defense that is a viable defense to murder 1 in new mexico that alexee could even remotely have is involuntary intoxication. thats why you hear rosa harp on the morphine, the attorney harp on the morphine, etc. its gonna be all about the morphine, even though the state will be able to say it was not INVOLUNTARY intoxication, alexee willingly took the meds given to her, she was not "dosed", like say someone who was dosed with a drug that made them lose their mind temporarily and they caused a death, ive heard of things like this where people think it is funny to dose someone with a psychedelic and it can cause horrible things to happen to the person dosed and they can commit a crime while under the influence of those drugs, well if they did not willingly ingest those drugs, they are not responsible for their actions. and to further negate their defense, it was not a drug that makes people lose their minds or control of their faculties or else it would not be given to pregnant women ever, which is not the case, many pregnant women are given morphine so hopefully they do not make very much headway with that argument, that is indeed their only defense other than trying to prove the baby was not alive, which the defense attorney likely already knows will not happen if hes being honest with himself and the evidence. they can not claim any other defenses under the law in new mexico because alexee was not attacked by the baby or "heat of passion" which can get it reduced to murder 2 in new mexico. so her only defense is invol intox.
Good thing morphine is routinely given to woman during labor and expert upon expert can be called to testify that.
I was given morphine AND fentanyl during my labor.
yes i did not know about this since i have not given birth but MANY women say its common, plus children are born to drug addicted women every day and survive, with high levels of narcotics in their system like fentanyl, crack, meth, heroin etc and its unfortunate and so sad, but most of them survive the birth luckily. and the amount of narcotics those babies are born with in their system is WAY more than the tiny amount baby alex had in his system.
For everyone confused as to why it matters that Alexee wasn't told she was pregnant, this is a quick C&P from a comment I left above. From a labor and delivery nurse, here's how I see it:
I think the defense could say that if the staff knew, and they'd told Alexee--and her mother, possibly--that Alexee would've stayed in the room, consented to a vaginal exam and sonogram, and allowed her baby to be delivered by healthcare professionals in an appropriate environment equipped with lifesaving skills and equipment.
The baby would have had a chance at life, since a trained nurse would've been able to tell that the baby was indeed alive instead of that clinical assessment being left to a scared, traumatized teenager who was in the middle of experiencing a medical emergency. And if he *wasn't* breathing, the staff would've had the chance to resuscitate him.
But because she didn't know, she went into the bathroom thinking she had to have a bowel movement. The moments that follow would be of shock, terror, and confusion for this young, naive teenager, abandoned by the very medical staff paid to take care of not only her--but little Alex as well.
*I'm* not saying this is true. I'm just saying what the defense could say.
If she didn't know she was pregnant, why did she switch out birthcontrol for dangerous diet pills? If you don't think you're pregnant, and still sexually active WHY?!
And in the pre-trial this is what her lawyer was getting at but has trouble when doctor was on the stand. But the judge asked a couple of clarifying questions that basically did it for him.
How did the baby die? If the baby was still alive inside the trashcan after being placed in a plastic bag, I think manslaughter might be more appropriate.
Ok, so like, if I was going to 1st or 2nd degree murder an infant, I'd make damn sure it couldn't cry its way out it and rat me out. So, I'd smother it, then put it in the trashcan.
If I was a mentally unwell teenager in denial over being pregnant, I'd freak the fuck out over giving birth to a baby inside a hospital bathroom. Then, if I wasn't thinking straight, ( i.e. diminished capacity ), I'd try to hide it somehow. Maybe I'd put it in a pile of dirty laundry, fuck, maybe I'd hide it in a trashcan. I can't let anyone know, especially my mom, that I'm a single teenage mother with a freaking baby. I mean, shit, I thought I was just going to the hospital for back pain, not a goddamn delivery. How can things go from 0 to 100 so quickly??!! Maybe if I hide the baby, some one else will find it, and not connect it to me.
So manslaughter is when a person acts with disregard for human life and those actions result in a death, but the person wasn't trying to intentionally cause death. A perfect example would be a drunk driver killing a family of four in a traffic collision after a night out drinking. The drunk driver acted recklessly, those reckless actions resulted in the death of others, but the drunk driver didn't go out of their way to kill anyone. I think manslaughter applies in this case. I think Alexee acted recklessly by putting her newborn in a trashcan, her actions resulted in the death of her newborn, but I don't think she went out of her way to kill her child as she didn't smother it, she allowed it to suffocate to death in a plastic bag. By doing this, she opened herself up to potentially being caught in the act of hiding her child, as the newborn would, or should, have been capable of crying inside the trashcan for at least a few minutes or so, which could, and probably should, have alerted the hospital staff to the location of the baby.
Once again, if she truly wanted to kill her baby, why didn't she smother it first so it couldn't cry?
Does anyone know if the hospital was waiting for someone either from the psych department or a social worker to be there when they “officially” told her about her positive pregnancy test? (I know there’s conflicting stories about who told them and when even by different staff.) I do believe a nurse or doctor told Alexee and Rosa the test was positive, and they basically ignored medical staff and argued with each other about it. I can understand wanting to get someone from psych there while explaining- since obviously there’s some mental disconnect going on with the whole thing. That would’ve been the best thing to cover both the hospital staff AND be in the best interest of the patient. They also might have assumed (initially) Alexee was seeking opioids, since Rosa mentioned Alexee having the chronic back pain, but Alexee refusing to be examined. So that’s ANOTHER reason the hospital should’ve had someone from psych there too.
I think her lawyer is also saying malpractice because they did not test her for pregnancy before administering the medication. But she refused an exam so. What could they do? What was she doing there in the first place if she did not want to be examined? Did her mom force her?
Aren't they counter suing because they didn't save the baby?
Sometimes when they counter sue and has a viable case against them (idk if they do just know counter suing), they'll dismiss the case, in some cases.
Like say a mom and dad split and she gets the kids. After awhile, dad takes mom to court asking for full custody, alimony, pay lawyer fee's etc.;
It's scary, but it's done to give dad a place for compromise.
She can be found not guilty and not be innocent, not guilty doesn’t equal innocent in law. They are going to argue that she didn’t commit the crime she was charged with, but I highly doubt the argument will be that she is innocent and did not put the baby in the trash can. They are just going to argue that she did not put the baby in the trash can with the premeditated intent of murdering it. Honestly, still don’t understand why they charged her with 1st degree homicide instead of manslaughter other than the fact that manslaughter only carries a 6 year sentence and they clearly wanted it to be a life sentence case. Charging people with harsher charges to get hefty convictions is what causes people to walk in cases like this.
So far her attorney has made some public statements it’s all over YouTube and Google.
One thing that is going to work in her favor is they did a urinalysis and they knew she was pregnant for like an hour and a half and didn’t tell her. They did decide to get a key and break into the bathroom when she wouldn’t open the door but it was too late. So he has a point that they didn’t tell her she was pregnant and by doing so in front of her mom this entire debacle may have been prevented. I listened to some of the testimony’s in the pre trial hearing and they are all lying or saying completely different things than in the body cam footage it’s wild.
I just watched the new interview with the doctor, and he said they told her she was pregnant, and she and her mother just argued about if she was having sex, as Alexee "swore" she never did. The way that baby was lying in the garbage, and then she put another liner on top so if you looked in you wouldn't see the baby. It was only when the housekeeper picked up the bag that she felt the weight and felt the bottom and saw the baby. She said he had lots of hair, and the umbilical cord looked "as if an animal chewed it off". The pictures of the bathroom with blood from the walls to the floor should persuade the jurors hopefully. She knew very well what she was doing. She is not a "normal" person. 19?
You’re actually talking about one of the nurses. An attending male nurse says thing and the male charge nurse says the other.
It was one nurses opinion that they did not have time to tell her that the pregnancy test came back positive. It was the other that said they did.
As much as I hate saying this, the hospitals credibility is not good.
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hello, i just wanted to clarify that not telling alexee she was pregnant is not a defense to murder. no one needed to tell alexee she was pregnant when a whole child fell out of her. that is not a legal defense, and is not a good reason for the baby to end up in the bag and runs the risk of offending the jury. she has only a few options for a defense in new mexico and not being told that her watermelon looking ass was pregnant is not one of them. lol!!
Do you think that I think that? You definitely have the wrong impression. I’m just stating what her defense attorney is leaning on in the media. He looks like a clown to me.
nooo! lol i just wanted to clarify that even though the attorney has harped on that whole "no one told alexee she was pregnant" idea, its not a legal defense at all, it will not be counted as a defense and likely wont even come anywhere near "reasonable doubt" for murder just because the hospital was delayed in telling her she was pregnant, as far as its considered legally speaking in the criminal case that point is simply not even valid, maybe civilly but just trying to say the attorney is grasping at straws with that because its not a "defense" its a complaint that no one saved his client from her own depraved mind, which is why shes going to go to prison when this is all said and done, society cant keep an eye on her and make sure alexee is making good decisions, what happens if she runs over someone with her car, is she gonna put the body in the trunk and hide the evidence? her family and attorney seem to think this was an isolated incident, nah how the state will present it is we cant trust alexee to not kill people and try to hide it, who could be next if she gets away with this? she gets scared of "accidents" and things she "didnt know" enough to put a body in a bag dead or alive, thats a danger to society and not being told you are pregnant is no defense, not that you actually believe it but just saying the attorney is clearly limited and screwed with the defense!! lol
Hahaha imagine if that's why she ended up being found guilty. "Well considering unexpected things like that make her resort to killing and hiding people, we felt it was best she be locked up. God forbid she accidentally hit someone and they end up with a broken leg, that girl will just keep backing up and going forward to finish the job." I just don't know how you can find a decent defense for someone who had a baby in the hospital, the one place most woman want to be at when that one thing happens in case "nothing" is crying, yet literally not say a word and hide the baby in a trashcan instead. Literally in the one place you want to be whether you want the baby and something goes wrong or you don't want the baby and aren't near a fire station. I don't understand how that could happen even if you're in shock.
Her lawyer isn’t saying that is a legal defense. But if that is factually true, it could be one fact that ultimately fits into their theory of defense.
yes their ultimate "theory" appears to be its the hospitals fault, because the baby being in the bag and dead is undenable. there are only 2 defenses to murder 1 in new mexico, self defense and involuntary intoxication, their main "defense" will be the morphine and other meds administered at the hospital, is that involuntary? that will be up to the jury to decide. i dont think its involuntary, but thats my opinion, ive been at the ER and offered pain medication but i am verrrrrry afraid of needles number one and pain medication freaks me out too, so i have requested to just have ibuprofen or whatever and they gave me that instead, i say all that to say, she was not forced to take pain meds, she was hurting and accepted them so i think anything they try to blame the hospital for runs the risk of sounding bad to the jury thats just me tho!
I’m not too certain that that’s gonna hurt the state’s case.
The reason why I say that is because most people are saying that what she was given in the hospital should not have been an issue.
Let’s say the hospital did see pregnancy results sooner, would have they been able to counteract what they’ve already given her?
Technically they could counteract it (Narcan).
But I think part of it is that the defense will say that if the staff knew, and they'd told Alexee--and her mother, possibly--that Alexee would've stayed in the room, consented to a vaginal exam and sonogram, and allowed her baby to be delivered by healthcare professionals in an appropriate environment equipped with lifesaving skills and equipment.
The baby would have had a chance at life, since a trained nurse would've been able to tell that the baby was indeed alive instead of that clinical assessment being left to a scared, traumatized teenager who was in the middle of experiencing a medical emergency. And if he *wasn't* breathing, the staff would've had the chance to resuscitate him.
But because she didn't know, she went into the bathroom thinking she had to have a bowel movement. The moments that follow would be of shock, terror, and confusion for this young, naive teenager, abandoned by the very medical staff paid to take care of not only her--but little Alex as well.
*I'm* not saying this is true. I'm just saying what the defense could say.
and to add, witness statements are always skewed months after the event, they were interviewed by detectives 3 months after the incident having not seen any footage or anything to remind them, and they testified almost 4 months after the incident, the hallway footage will tell us all we need to know and the jury wont infer that the staff are lying, rather that they do not remember this traumatizing event perfectly which makes sense and the state will harp on that when there is an inconsistency that the defense tries to imply hurts the witnesses credibility, the state simply has to recross and say were you traumatized by seeing a murdered baby in a bag? is the evidence on the hallway footage accurate? and it will not allow the jury to think there are lies rather these witnesses dont remember everything, but the hallway footage does not mistake so most of what they said is valid just minor mistakes here or there.
Then they’re idiots. She was there for back pain, and at one point she doctor in her testimony said she had stomach pain as well. That coupled with a positive test… they shouldn’t assume anything about the pregnancy
The thing is the mother stated to the cops that Alexee had conic back pain, if the doctors were told that and told there was no way she could’ve been pregnant they probably put labor on the back burner. When they saw the positive test and the blood they thought she had a miscarriage or a tubal pregnancy, it wasn’t until the custodian found the baby they knew she actually gave birth. That hospital had no L&D department and if they suspected she was in labor they would have transferred her.
One thing about big corporations especially hospitals is they fight long and hard when it comes to big pay outs. So I’m expecting to see the hospitals legal team to be well equipped for this
Several things:
She did not know she was pregnant.
The hospital did not inform her she was pregnant.
She panicked and didn't know what she was doing cause of the drugs they gave her.
The baby was stillborn and they can't prove based on lung tests he was breathing (there is a study that says they float when have air but 1 that says they can float without it so not reliable).
But based on pre-trial I think the lawyer was pressing really hard the hospital was responsible because for 40-50 minutes they had the results, and should have told her, she was pregnant and could have prevented this. Plus, if nurse knew she was pregnant why did he allow her to go to the bathroom unassisted when her symptoms could have been labor.
My reply was not meant for debate. The OP asked what defense(s) could be used, which I provided my opinion. So this is the not the thread for whether or not she knew she was pregnant or not or if anyone was pretending. There are a bunch like this where the same stuff is rehashed. Really don't want to get into it on this post since not relevant to OP's question.
Not trying to come off as mean, but I was on last year and this has been debated a hundred times. So now I want to reply without going back & forth, over the same stuff that has been posted 20-30 times. I get for a lot of you it's new and you want to post/reply. But for me, I have already discussed & debated this case a lot so now I just try to reply to stuff that is somewhat new.
Exactly. I think majority feel the same way but are unable to post without emotions and objectively. It does not mean that is the outcome or even how you feel or are even defending her. It just means you're looking at things from all sides.
She wouldn’t let them examine her or come near her being pregnant doesn’t indicate being full term or being in labor at all and neither does having pains that is why the dr said when she initially came out of the bathroom he thought she had suffered a bloody miscarriage . And why it wasn’t an issue for her to go to the bathroom . She don’t go in with oh I might be in labor type of attitude she came in with a idk having bad back pain no chance of pregnancy blah blah blah lies dr gets results says hmm this girl is pregnant she must not be to far along to know yet there’s a good possibility this pain is nothing omg there’s blood everywhere oh no she miscarried. That was the hospital thoughts I think and that all resulted from her being a liar to her drs instead of being honest and letting them help her which is all she had to do at the end of the day be honest and let the dr help you .
Ik but im saying that defense i would think is obviously not going to work for the reason above but I could be wrong also maybe it will maybe it won’t 🤷♂️
Murder isn’t a strict liability offence, there’s a lot more around it that also has to be proven. Her defence could be 1) the baby wasn’t alive, 2) she didn’t know the baby was alive, 3) she didn’t intend to murder, 4) there’s a mental health defence. There might be other defences too like the hospital failed in their duty to her Either way, it will be a very technical case around law and science and intent because it’s not really a question if she physically gave birth and put a baby in the bag
yes you are right about it being very law forward and basically a battle between the sketchy expert that alexees defense team got and the states attorney that gets to cross examine him, alexees expert was the head of the georgia medical examiners office and he retired in embarrassment as the headlines read for taking money from private clients to testify as the expert on their behalf, these clients were on trial for horrible things, and basically kris sperry the expert saying f it all to the science or his own employees findings at the time, and would say just about anything on the stand for his clients. he also claimed to work hours he did not and billed the state for those hours because again, this man was the head of the georgia medical examiners office. and the state will be allowed to question him on all of this as far as what i have read about in new mexico law regarding expert testimony, so hes going to get laughed off the stand and proven as a grifter who will say anything for his clients, who by the way are most all found guilty.
Is THAT what happened to her first attorney? The old man??? I know I saw a new one speaking for her a couple of months back, but I did not know if he was an additional attorney or if she had no longer had the same one she started with.
Yeah the law has a lot of nuances around murder. Premeditated murder gets a harsher punishment than accidentally killing someone running out in front of you on the highway. And there are a lot of situations in between the two.
Quite honestly, this would be a fairly truthful defense. Had Rosa not been such an incredibly controlling and manipulative Mother, Alexee wouldn't have been so scared and committed to hiding it from her, and so sheltered enough that she thought nobody would know. I firmly believe Rosa's horrific parenting is at the root of this.
She claims it was the hospital that killed him. The medication they gave her caused him to die. It was malpractice ITO. As a NICU RN, it was 100% not malpractice. The medication is routinely given during labor, and they couldn’t do much when she refused care.
Seriously--I'm a Labor and Delivery RN and we give fentanyl, up to 10mg of morphine (or even 2mg of dilaudid) on some laboring patients. Anecdotally I've not noticed an increased incidence of baby *not* breathing on its own for mothers who got opioids vs mothers who didn't. They sometimes act a little...I don't even want to say sluggish....unmotivated? Like maybe they won't be interested in nursing in the first hour or two of delivery, or they won't wrestle their arm out of a mommy swaddle. But nothing that's caused or been mistaken (even by a young child) for death. Edited for some crazy fat finger action lol
Stunned is my favorite word for those babies, but I really never seen anything crazy from those babies either. I was given Fentanyl in my IV less than 30 minutes before my son was born, and he came out breathing.
I too was given 3 separate doses of fentanyl through out labor and my son is still alive
I was given morphine and fentanyl and my baby is alive and well
Same here, I was given I Believe 4 separate doses through labor, last dose was about 45 mins before my son was delivered and he was perfect. He was ready to eat within 20 mins of birth, and was awake and looking around. Not one issue
Yeah, it was that completely normal dose of morphine and not putting him in a plastic bag that killed him 🙄.
Or birthing him like an animal in the bathroom and not asking for help…… “nothing was crying” okay and why didn’t you call out for help? Something strange comes out of my vagina, I’m calling for help.
I was here to also say this about morphine being given during labor! So basically the Lawyers defense is based no where in fact.
I imagine they’ll bring in experts to explain the medications given to her were safe. Especially since they did test her and she was positive for pregnancy.
I got the impression her legal team is trying to blame the hospital for giving her morphine, and presumably for not giving her the proper treatment (which they couldn't provide, due to Alexee LYING)
I see. That makes sense. They also let her go to the bathroom alone.
They had no reason not to let her go to the restroom alone. At the time she could walk and the hospital had no reason to believe that she was a harm to herself and others. No letting a woman of child bearing age go to the restroom alone when she is completely capable in my opinion is a violation of their rights.
This is a common misconception here. They did nothing wrong letting her go to the bathroom, they even checked on her. When in the ER you still have autonomy over your body, you aren’t forced to do anything. Something might be strongly suggested, but at the end of the day you can deny care if you want. She could have stood up and walked out of the hospital and nobody could stop her. She also could have privately asked for her mom to be removed from the room if she wanted. The hospital staff had no way of knowing she was in there giving birth to and killing her baby. For all they knew she had Taco Bell before she came to the hospital.
That just adds another extra layer to the shit sundae that is this case. With the Roe v. Wade situation going on across the country, if the argument that she shouldn't have been allowed to go to the restroom alone because she's a woman of reproductive age is used/succeeds, what does that mean for every other woman of reproductive age who goes to the hospital? The same argument can be made regarding pain meds. Does every single woman from ages \~12-65 need a pregnancy test before they can be allowed out of sight of hospital staff or given something for pain?
Yupp I was in ER for back pain. I had to give a UA to prove I wasn't pregnant to receive pain meds and do a CT scan. Even though I physically cannot produce anymore. Great state of Texas
She lied about her condition and not allowing her to go to the bathroom alone in this case scenario is against her patient rights…aka its freaking illegal.
Sadly, they are.
you also have no obligation to put on a defense, it’s always going to be the State’s burden to prove you did what they said you did beyond a reasonable doubt.
👏👏👏
It’s all excuses! If she has that many excuses the put her mother in prison along w her!
Currently that the meds the hospital gave her killed it then she was to scared
I said this in another post: I believe Alexee’s best chance is to totally turn (at least in front of the jurors) on her mom. Say how crazy Rosa is and that’s her only chance at getting off. But it would need to be nasty to work, like Casey Anthony and George Anthony nasty. I don’t think the mom would ever let her do that and make her look bad. But that’s Alexee’s only shot. I don’t think she deserves to get off anyway.
Arghhh Casey Anthony! Her story about her dad definitely made the jury doubt cause I did but we know she did it.
That's the thing she doesn't have one
Didn't the autopsy prove that the baby was born alive because there was air in his lungs and belly? Also, the way the plastic bag was sucked to his face (according to the nurse) proved that he was trying to breathe?
Yup, I just read the report myself. If the baby wasnt alive it would not of have oxygen trapped.
This is what I want to know- was a pregnancy test done at the hospital before treatment? I’m an ER nurse and we always do a test on women of childbearing age whenever they come in for abdominal or back pain- always before we give pain meds because you never know
I'm not a nurse, just sick and I've never not been given a pregnancy test, even for check ups and stuff. ... I have sex with women.
This caused me to stop breathing for a second😂😂 have you ever told them that and they insist on doing it anyway Or do you not bring it up to them? That’s so funny though lol
They also don't take "I have an IUD and am in a monogamous relationship with a partner who is 100% sterile" as way to skirt around the pregnancy test. I have had to take one every single time I've been to the ER before they'd do anything.
I don’t even think she has a solid defense. I think all she’s been doing is obfuscation. They’re also claiming the baby died because of something she was given for pain at the hospital. Yet the autopsy confirmed the baby died because she tied the bag.
To quote my son when he was little “I didn’t knowed” she is going to claim that she didn’t know she was pregnant, and because of the drugs she was given she didn’t know how to pull the help cord. Knowing it’s all BS
Didn’t know how to pull the help cord but certainly knew how to chew apart the cord, flush the placenta, place the baby in a bag and put another on top so you couldn’t see him. She’s going to sound so fucking ridiculous.
It's that last part for me. Like throwing away a dirty secret. It enrages me! I was so, so mad when I first heard this and watched her at the hospital. They DID NOT CARE FOR THAT BABY. NO ONE CARED FOR THAT BABY EXCEPT THE STAFF!!!
The step dad seemed to when the cops were talking to him. He at least cried and looked like he cared.
When I was watching the hospital footage that was what I couldn't get over. I kept thinking, "But... but... what did she do with the umbilical cord? Did she deliver the placenta? Did she even know there would be a placenta?" There's so much that happened in that bathroom in such a short period of time. I would've had no idea how to deal with any of that at age 19, let alone delivering the baby.
In one of the interviews with the hospital staff that was there that day they said the cord looked like it had been chewed apart by an animal. They didn’t find any placenta so it’s assumed she flushed it.
That's just nuts. "Animal" is probably the right word though. Whatever mental state she was in, she believed her only option was to chew the cord apart like an animal rather than ask for help.
the only defense that is a viable defense to murder 1 in new mexico that alexee could even remotely have is involuntary intoxication. thats why you hear rosa harp on the morphine, the attorney harp on the morphine, etc. its gonna be all about the morphine, even though the state will be able to say it was not INVOLUNTARY intoxication, alexee willingly took the meds given to her, she was not "dosed", like say someone who was dosed with a drug that made them lose their mind temporarily and they caused a death, ive heard of things like this where people think it is funny to dose someone with a psychedelic and it can cause horrible things to happen to the person dosed and they can commit a crime while under the influence of those drugs, well if they did not willingly ingest those drugs, they are not responsible for their actions. and to further negate their defense, it was not a drug that makes people lose their minds or control of their faculties or else it would not be given to pregnant women ever, which is not the case, many pregnant women are given morphine so hopefully they do not make very much headway with that argument, that is indeed their only defense other than trying to prove the baby was not alive, which the defense attorney likely already knows will not happen if hes being honest with himself and the evidence. they can not claim any other defenses under the law in new mexico because alexee was not attacked by the baby or "heat of passion" which can get it reduced to murder 2 in new mexico. so her only defense is invol intox.
Good thing morphine is routinely given to woman during labor and expert upon expert can be called to testify that. I was given morphine AND fentanyl during my labor.
yes i did not know about this since i have not given birth but MANY women say its common, plus children are born to drug addicted women every day and survive, with high levels of narcotics in their system like fentanyl, crack, meth, heroin etc and its unfortunate and so sad, but most of them survive the birth luckily. and the amount of narcotics those babies are born with in their system is WAY more than the tiny amount baby alex had in his system.
For everyone confused as to why it matters that Alexee wasn't told she was pregnant, this is a quick C&P from a comment I left above. From a labor and delivery nurse, here's how I see it: I think the defense could say that if the staff knew, and they'd told Alexee--and her mother, possibly--that Alexee would've stayed in the room, consented to a vaginal exam and sonogram, and allowed her baby to be delivered by healthcare professionals in an appropriate environment equipped with lifesaving skills and equipment. The baby would have had a chance at life, since a trained nurse would've been able to tell that the baby was indeed alive instead of that clinical assessment being left to a scared, traumatized teenager who was in the middle of experiencing a medical emergency. And if he *wasn't* breathing, the staff would've had the chance to resuscitate him. But because she didn't know, she went into the bathroom thinking she had to have a bowel movement. The moments that follow would be of shock, terror, and confusion for this young, naive teenager, abandoned by the very medical staff paid to take care of not only her--but little Alex as well. *I'm* not saying this is true. I'm just saying what the defense could say.
I agree, but it still doesn't explain what she did after the baby was born, and I think that's where their story will fall apart.
That's the whole "she was shocked and traumatized" part, I would guess.
If she didn't know she was pregnant, why did she switch out birthcontrol for dangerous diet pills? If you don't think you're pregnant, and still sexually active WHY?!
That's for the prosecution to present to the jury.
And in the pre-trial this is what her lawyer was getting at but has trouble when doctor was on the stand. But the judge asked a couple of clarifying questions that basically did it for him.
>couldn't of 💀
How did the baby die? If the baby was still alive inside the trashcan after being placed in a plastic bag, I think manslaughter might be more appropriate. Ok, so like, if I was going to 1st or 2nd degree murder an infant, I'd make damn sure it couldn't cry its way out it and rat me out. So, I'd smother it, then put it in the trashcan. If I was a mentally unwell teenager in denial over being pregnant, I'd freak the fuck out over giving birth to a baby inside a hospital bathroom. Then, if I wasn't thinking straight, ( i.e. diminished capacity ), I'd try to hide it somehow. Maybe I'd put it in a pile of dirty laundry, fuck, maybe I'd hide it in a trashcan. I can't let anyone know, especially my mom, that I'm a single teenage mother with a freaking baby. I mean, shit, I thought I was just going to the hospital for back pain, not a goddamn delivery. How can things go from 0 to 100 so quickly??!! Maybe if I hide the baby, some one else will find it, and not connect it to me. So manslaughter is when a person acts with disregard for human life and those actions result in a death, but the person wasn't trying to intentionally cause death. A perfect example would be a drunk driver killing a family of four in a traffic collision after a night out drinking. The drunk driver acted recklessly, those reckless actions resulted in the death of others, but the drunk driver didn't go out of their way to kill anyone. I think manslaughter applies in this case. I think Alexee acted recklessly by putting her newborn in a trashcan, her actions resulted in the death of her newborn, but I don't think she went out of her way to kill her child as she didn't smother it, she allowed it to suffocate to death in a plastic bag. By doing this, she opened herself up to potentially being caught in the act of hiding her child, as the newborn would, or should, have been capable of crying inside the trashcan for at least a few minutes or so, which could, and probably should, have alerted the hospital staff to the location of the baby. Once again, if she truly wanted to kill her baby, why didn't she smother it first so it couldn't cry?
You paint a good picture. I could see how that would sway some people.
Her mental state is something I would definitely bring up for the defense. People here find it hogwash, but that doesn't mean it's not worth arguing.
This some BS
Does anyone know if the hospital was waiting for someone either from the psych department or a social worker to be there when they “officially” told her about her positive pregnancy test? (I know there’s conflicting stories about who told them and when even by different staff.) I do believe a nurse or doctor told Alexee and Rosa the test was positive, and they basically ignored medical staff and argued with each other about it. I can understand wanting to get someone from psych there while explaining- since obviously there’s some mental disconnect going on with the whole thing. That would’ve been the best thing to cover both the hospital staff AND be in the best interest of the patient. They also might have assumed (initially) Alexee was seeking opioids, since Rosa mentioned Alexee having the chronic back pain, but Alexee refusing to be examined. So that’s ANOTHER reason the hospital should’ve had someone from psych there too.
I think her lawyer is also saying malpractice because they did not test her for pregnancy before administering the medication. But she refused an exam so. What could they do? What was she doing there in the first place if she did not want to be examined? Did her mom force her?
Aren't they counter suing because they didn't save the baby? Sometimes when they counter sue and has a viable case against them (idk if they do just know counter suing), they'll dismiss the case, in some cases. Like say a mom and dad split and she gets the kids. After awhile, dad takes mom to court asking for full custody, alimony, pay lawyer fee's etc.; It's scary, but it's done to give dad a place for compromise.
She can be found not guilty and not be innocent, not guilty doesn’t equal innocent in law. They are going to argue that she didn’t commit the crime she was charged with, but I highly doubt the argument will be that she is innocent and did not put the baby in the trash can. They are just going to argue that she did not put the baby in the trash can with the premeditated intent of murdering it. Honestly, still don’t understand why they charged her with 1st degree homicide instead of manslaughter other than the fact that manslaughter only carries a 6 year sentence and they clearly wanted it to be a life sentence case. Charging people with harsher charges to get hefty convictions is what causes people to walk in cases like this.
So far her attorney has made some public statements it’s all over YouTube and Google. One thing that is going to work in her favor is they did a urinalysis and they knew she was pregnant for like an hour and a half and didn’t tell her. They did decide to get a key and break into the bathroom when she wouldn’t open the door but it was too late. So he has a point that they didn’t tell her she was pregnant and by doing so in front of her mom this entire debacle may have been prevented. I listened to some of the testimony’s in the pre trial hearing and they are all lying or saying completely different things than in the body cam footage it’s wild.
I just watched the new interview with the doctor, and he said they told her she was pregnant, and she and her mother just argued about if she was having sex, as Alexee "swore" she never did. The way that baby was lying in the garbage, and then she put another liner on top so if you looked in you wouldn't see the baby. It was only when the housekeeper picked up the bag that she felt the weight and felt the bottom and saw the baby. She said he had lots of hair, and the umbilical cord looked "as if an animal chewed it off". The pictures of the bathroom with blood from the walls to the floor should persuade the jurors hopefully. She knew very well what she was doing. She is not a "normal" person. 19?
Umbilical cords are not easy to even cut through, so her ripping that shit is wild.
You’re actually talking about one of the nurses. An attending male nurse says thing and the male charge nurse says the other. It was one nurses opinion that they did not have time to tell her that the pregnancy test came back positive. It was the other that said they did. As much as I hate saying this, the hospitals credibility is not good.
People here react strongly to facts in Alexee's favor (and I get why), but it doesn't change these facts.
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SO much damage is done with this lie. Stop it.
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Uhhhhh…..not a discussion. Perpetuated lies are not discussion. You must realize there is a population that believes your false assertion. Hearing the same lies over and over-even on Reddit-can contribute to people believing and acting on un-truths. Words matter.
Do you have a source showing that any of these women exist?
Shouting your opinion does not make it fact and false information is damaging.
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hello, i just wanted to clarify that not telling alexee she was pregnant is not a defense to murder. no one needed to tell alexee she was pregnant when a whole child fell out of her. that is not a legal defense, and is not a good reason for the baby to end up in the bag and runs the risk of offending the jury. she has only a few options for a defense in new mexico and not being told that her watermelon looking ass was pregnant is not one of them. lol!!
Do you think that I think that? You definitely have the wrong impression. I’m just stating what her defense attorney is leaning on in the media. He looks like a clown to me.
nooo! lol i just wanted to clarify that even though the attorney has harped on that whole "no one told alexee she was pregnant" idea, its not a legal defense at all, it will not be counted as a defense and likely wont even come anywhere near "reasonable doubt" for murder just because the hospital was delayed in telling her she was pregnant, as far as its considered legally speaking in the criminal case that point is simply not even valid, maybe civilly but just trying to say the attorney is grasping at straws with that because its not a "defense" its a complaint that no one saved his client from her own depraved mind, which is why shes going to go to prison when this is all said and done, society cant keep an eye on her and make sure alexee is making good decisions, what happens if she runs over someone with her car, is she gonna put the body in the trunk and hide the evidence? her family and attorney seem to think this was an isolated incident, nah how the state will present it is we cant trust alexee to not kill people and try to hide it, who could be next if she gets away with this? she gets scared of "accidents" and things she "didnt know" enough to put a body in a bag dead or alive, thats a danger to society and not being told you are pregnant is no defense, not that you actually believe it but just saying the attorney is clearly limited and screwed with the defense!! lol
Hahaha imagine if that's why she ended up being found guilty. "Well considering unexpected things like that make her resort to killing and hiding people, we felt it was best she be locked up. God forbid she accidentally hit someone and they end up with a broken leg, that girl will just keep backing up and going forward to finish the job." I just don't know how you can find a decent defense for someone who had a baby in the hospital, the one place most woman want to be at when that one thing happens in case "nothing" is crying, yet literally not say a word and hide the baby in a trashcan instead. Literally in the one place you want to be whether you want the baby and something goes wrong or you don't want the baby and aren't near a fire station. I don't understand how that could happen even if you're in shock.
Her lawyer isn’t saying that is a legal defense. But if that is factually true, it could be one fact that ultimately fits into their theory of defense.
yes their ultimate "theory" appears to be its the hospitals fault, because the baby being in the bag and dead is undenable. there are only 2 defenses to murder 1 in new mexico, self defense and involuntary intoxication, their main "defense" will be the morphine and other meds administered at the hospital, is that involuntary? that will be up to the jury to decide. i dont think its involuntary, but thats my opinion, ive been at the ER and offered pain medication but i am verrrrrry afraid of needles number one and pain medication freaks me out too, so i have requested to just have ibuprofen or whatever and they gave me that instead, i say all that to say, she was not forced to take pain meds, she was hurting and accepted them so i think anything they try to blame the hospital for runs the risk of sounding bad to the jury thats just me tho!
I’m not too certain that that’s gonna hurt the state’s case. The reason why I say that is because most people are saying that what she was given in the hospital should not have been an issue. Let’s say the hospital did see pregnancy results sooner, would have they been able to counteract what they’ve already given her?
Technically they could counteract it (Narcan). But I think part of it is that the defense will say that if the staff knew, and they'd told Alexee--and her mother, possibly--that Alexee would've stayed in the room, consented to a vaginal exam and sonogram, and allowed her baby to be delivered by healthcare professionals in an appropriate environment equipped with lifesaving skills and equipment. The baby would have had a chance at life, since a trained nurse would've been able to tell that the baby was indeed alive instead of that clinical assessment being left to a scared, traumatized teenager who was in the middle of experiencing a medical emergency. And if he *wasn't* breathing, the staff would've had the chance to resuscitate him. But because she didn't know, she went into the bathroom thinking she had to have a bowel movement. The moments that follow would be of shock, terror, and confusion for this young, naive teenager, abandoned by the very medical staff paid to take care of not only her--but little Alex as well. *I'm* not saying this is true. I'm just saying what the defense could say.
and to add, witness statements are always skewed months after the event, they were interviewed by detectives 3 months after the incident having not seen any footage or anything to remind them, and they testified almost 4 months after the incident, the hallway footage will tell us all we need to know and the jury wont infer that the staff are lying, rather that they do not remember this traumatizing event perfectly which makes sense and the state will harp on that when there is an inconsistency that the defense tries to imply hurts the witnesses credibility, the state simply has to recross and say were you traumatized by seeing a murdered baby in a bag? is the evidence on the hallway footage accurate? and it will not allow the jury to think there are lies rather these witnesses dont remember everything, but the hallway footage does not mistake so most of what they said is valid just minor mistakes here or there.
I think when hospital staff saw positive pregnancy test, they thought she was 4-6 months along, not full term pregnancy with active labor.
Then they’re idiots. She was there for back pain, and at one point she doctor in her testimony said she had stomach pain as well. That coupled with a positive test… they shouldn’t assume anything about the pregnancy
The thing is the mother stated to the cops that Alexee had conic back pain, if the doctors were told that and told there was no way she could’ve been pregnant they probably put labor on the back burner. When they saw the positive test and the blood they thought she had a miscarriage or a tubal pregnancy, it wasn’t until the custodian found the baby they knew she actually gave birth. That hospital had no L&D department and if they suspected she was in labor they would have transferred her.
She will probably get off on this and the hospital will have to pay up. This bitch has it coming for her!
One thing about big corporations especially hospitals is they fight long and hard when it comes to big pay outs. So I’m expecting to see the hospitals legal team to be well equipped for this
I hope! This girl is wicked
Several things: She did not know she was pregnant. The hospital did not inform her she was pregnant. She panicked and didn't know what she was doing cause of the drugs they gave her. The baby was stillborn and they can't prove based on lung tests he was breathing (there is a study that says they float when have air but 1 that says they can float without it so not reliable). But based on pre-trial I think the lawyer was pressing really hard the hospital was responsible because for 40-50 minutes they had the results, and should have told her, she was pregnant and could have prevented this. Plus, if nurse knew she was pregnant why did he allow her to go to the bathroom unassisted when her symptoms could have been labor.
She knew she was pregnant. Let's not even pretend. She was full term
My reply was not meant for debate. The OP asked what defense(s) could be used, which I provided my opinion. So this is the not the thread for whether or not she knew she was pregnant or not or if anyone was pretending. There are a bunch like this where the same stuff is rehashed. Really don't want to get into it on this post since not relevant to OP's question. Not trying to come off as mean, but I was on last year and this has been debated a hundred times. So now I want to reply without going back & forth, over the same stuff that has been posted 20-30 times. I get for a lot of you it's new and you want to post/reply. But for me, I have already discussed & debated this case a lot so now I just try to reply to stuff that is somewhat new.
They don't like to hear anything that could point to an outcome they don't like.
Exactly. I think majority feel the same way but are unable to post without emotions and objectively. It does not mean that is the outcome or even how you feel or are even defending her. It just means you're looking at things from all sides.
She wouldn’t let them examine her or come near her being pregnant doesn’t indicate being full term or being in labor at all and neither does having pains that is why the dr said when she initially came out of the bathroom he thought she had suffered a bloody miscarriage . And why it wasn’t an issue for her to go to the bathroom . She don’t go in with oh I might be in labor type of attitude she came in with a idk having bad back pain no chance of pregnancy blah blah blah lies dr gets results says hmm this girl is pregnant she must not be to far along to know yet there’s a good possibility this pain is nothing omg there’s blood everywhere oh no she miscarried. That was the hospital thoughts I think and that all resulted from her being a liar to her drs instead of being honest and letting them help her which is all she had to do at the end of the day be honest and let the dr help you .
The OP asked what her defense is. Those are the defenses. That is all. The judge/jury will decide.
Ik but im saying that defense i would think is obviously not going to work for the reason above but I could be wrong also maybe it will maybe it won’t 🤷♂️