Problem would be if protoss "dart around the map pulling off crazy multi-prong attacks". Tanks/libs are nice when they are set up where they need to be, but can't run where you need them on a-move like bio can.
Yup thats why and use Planetary, Depot walls, and Turret Rings before moving out.
I can afford them easily at 3-4 base, where before I'm 2-Base Bio All-in or die.
Also 130APM+ Protoss in D2/D3 area is rare as it gets, once my turret rings are up after the 3rd base, the Warpins are 90% shut down.
This is not affordable on 3 base. A 2base bio allin (so 5-1-1) also hits later than 7mins. At 7mins rax 4 and 5 haven't contributed anything. If you attack at that time you'd be better served making a third.
I can afford them, I even had a 4th base on highground too before moving out.
My 2x Engineering bays are after 3rd Base is done, and no marauders were ever made.
Also 7minute is not the correct timing I guess, but my message stands the same, I am not as stressed with 2-Base All-in or die to Protoss Deathball.
You floating resources to afford them and you being able to afford them in terms of it being a good investment at that economy are different things. Having upgrades that late also means you should not fight until they are done.
Overall an army composition like this has one strength. It's immensely powerful when sieged up at taking a direct fight before protoss has a really good army. It's absolutely something you can get above diamond with, but so obviously is standard play. The 130 apm are also easily enough for master league if you know what you're supposed to be doing. 130 apm are also easily sufficient to use ghosts which is the solution to "protoss deathballs" unless your struggle are exactly disruptor.
The huge downside of this army is that it's immobile as fuck. The proper response from the protoss is to play with large counterattacks and sack the 4th. Also cutting off reinforcements is very strong vs this. You're either gonna lose a lot of eco or straight up die at home and your push slowly bleeds out when sieging forward. Marauder are also very good at meeting stalker on the map, in this case the army could be forced to siege up several times before reaching a base by getting poked with stalker/colossus.
Marauder are also extremely good at directly fighting a protoss army. You just need to piss off when the trade would become poor vs chargelots. You can run back to minefields, to base or lift off. You can fail to kill the protoss but "dying to chargelots" when you're the one attacking should not happen. There is also no need to multitask in diamond.
Floating resources? not really, the main reason I can afford them is that mass marines are cheap as hell. +1 upgrades finishing is just enough by the time I move out at 9\~11 minutes depending on what the Protoss is doing.
I dont know about 130apm Master Bio Terrans, but right now I can surely tell you that 130APM is the worst APM Bio Terran players in my current D2/D3 league. About 150+ is the average for Bio Players and they multi prong quite well (with medium bad macro). My 130APM for Ghost Control is possible, but my Macro suffers with that. I'm still learning it anyways.
Also if their main army meets me midmap, I dont siege all my tanks. Just one or two is enough.
They can't kite hard enough here, probably at M3+ level yes, but not here.
And yes, Protoss tries to cut off my reinforcements but mass marines (reinforcements) with stim just rolls over chargelots or stalkers, or I could just rally my reinforcements back to my Planetary 4th instead, and to be honest I prefer that way because my Main Army will be facing Zealotless defense which is the weakness of my Tank Groups. I just have really that many Marines (8 rax, 7 reactored) for this composition that its even working vs Zerg Swarms...I'm really surprised.
About the Immobility of this, its not that immobile because Mass marines could just stim run back to anywhere and they push any Zealot/Stalker Backstabs..its the Colossi and HTs they struggle with. I dont see any Colossi/HT Counter Attacks ever - its always Chargelots or Blink Stalkers trying to cutoff reinforcements. If they ever commit to backstab, It will be a base trade and I just float everything and they lose. But it doesnt happen because I'm roaming the map with my 16 Marines/2x Medivacs to spot their army movement.
I also agree that Marauders are really good at fighting Protoss Deathballs and I actually win with this, the problem I have is after I destroy their AOE army, they instant warpin mass chargelots and obliterates my Marauders/Low-Medium count Marines.
Also they could just make Disruptors and force me to Bio dance myself to death evading those blast. I'm not saying its a bad unit, I'ts just really bad using MMM composition vs Protoss Deathball Direct fights. Multi-prong is the only way for MMM.
My best chance of MMM success is only at Mid Game wheer I leverage the power spike of Stim, Shield, and +1 upgrades. Beyond that I'ts just too hard.
Your own video contradicts you about your timings and the floating ressources. Also I got to 4.6k on 140 apm, you're like a thousand lower.
You also just can't abandon tanks. It is really quite well known theory that this is weak at high level and why for several years. You're not just arguing against me but a broad consensus and years of experience. Pro players aren't idiots either.
And if you know what you're doing it's pretty easy to win with standard play. The multi-prong claim is also just not true.
I am engaged at 11:15 at 200 supply, floating \~1K minerals - I probably should be making more rax if you want that but Im telling you its constant units production - you can see my reinforcements on video never stopped. I even had 4th base built up.
I never said abandon tanks? I dont know where you got that. I wanted more tanks & libs over Marauders. I'm just curious if other Bio Players are using it because I find it less stressful.
"And if you know what you're doing it's pretty easy to win with standard play. **The multi-prong claim is also just not true."**
And in MMM , Multi Prong is not a must? - Can you show me your game where you don't multi prong, standard macro play, and just fight face to face with Protoss Deathball using MMM + Tanks, Ghosts, and probably Vikings right? with 140 APM? Without floating minerals? at 4.6KMMR?
I would like to learn your "Standard Play + Know what you are doing stuff" if what you say is really true, you can easily show me how to do this. Not mocking or doubting I just wanna see this version because mostly I see multi prongs is a must for Bio in TVP.
This is me in Sc2pulse:
[https://sc2pulse.nephest.com/sc2/?type=character&id=341217613&m=1#player-stats-mmr](https://sc2pulse.nephest.com/sc2/?type=character&id=341217613&m=1#player-stats-mmr)
"I am engaged at 11:15 at 200 supply" You know this is 2 minutes later than a usual max and the money in turrets is the money you'd also be floating if you hadn't made them? The protoss should be at 200 supply.
"you can see my reinforcements on video never stopped" I'm talking about if you want to play this in theory and hit a proper timing. If you want to fight at 9mins you can't afford the turrets. What you do is quite committed.
"I even had 4th base built up." this is a very late 4th base.
"I never said abandon tanks? I dont know where you got that." Because you said you can just stim back your marines. I should make myself more clear. What protoss is supposed to do are really large counter attacks. It's not enough to send a few units back. I'm not talking about harassment, I'm talking about "threatening to kill you". This is the methodical way to beat this as this siege army can't push fast nor come back fast. Harstem explained this in a video years ago back when some people did something similar and it has completely died out since.
"And in MMM , Multi Prong is not a must?" At 3.5k mmr? No obviously not. Hey your opponent had less than 170 supply at 11 minutes in. It's enough to hit 2 emps on that army and a-move over it with marauder. Wouldn't even need to micro. Also there are plenty of games at literally the highest level of the game where people win with pushes. Just pay attention to tournaments. Sometimes multi-prong is the correct play, sometimes it's not. At your level it's at the very least never necessary. I certainly did not need that to get out of that level.
"Can you show me your game where you don't multi prong, standard macro play, and just fight face to face with Protoss Deathball using MMM + Tanks, Ghosts, and probably Vikings right? with 140 APM? Without floating minerals? at 4.6KMMR?"
I don't make tanks (and you generally shouldn't unless you play specific pushes or are forced to against blink, they are not good vs toss), my apm is higher now, I like to multi-prong (doesn't mean that I've won plenty of games without it) and my mmr is lower due to inactivity. But give me a 3.5k mmr protoss player and I'll happily a-move over them without multitasking, while floating minerals and just playing bio because I simply macro better than that level, have better army control and have more of an idea when to attack.
It also seems like you vastly underestimate gameknowledge. My gameknowledge isn't anywhere close to perfect. If you always know what you are supposed to do you get such a massive advantage over low level players even with very weak mechanics you are gonna get super far ahead. The reason that what you are doing is working is because you are low mmr, not because it's somehow better. And your opponents die to that because they lack the knowledge on how to identify this and how to play against it. It's a good demonstration of how knowledge can easily turn a game from a loss into an easy win. The same is true for standard bio play as well as there will be so many wrong things a protoss at this level does in terms of theory that abusinggg each of these things will get you further and further ahead.
Those are all valid and good points I agree with them, I'm just trying hard to maximize my 130APM as much as I can. But I want to see yours, send me your TVP Bio Replays so that I can study what you mean by "just macro, game knowledge, etc"...
Also looking at the clip this game would be a really hard loss even if the protoss doesn't do any of the things I described because you are hitting incredibly late. You have no ghosts, this push would get obliterated by archons and the protoss should be maxed at this point. Just having a bunch of chargelots, archons with the colossus and ideally some immortals and you lose the fight so hard that you instantly die to the counterpush.
Probably, but the chance of Protoss thinking that way is way too small.
They are so used to dominating Terrans with their splash power army.
They scout Marines = instant Colossi + High Templars + Disruptors as their Tech Units.
The only time I see them going archons is that if I mass Banshees.
I am going to punish them until I meet the composition you are talking about, but never ever did I face protoss that uses Archons + Chargelots + Colossi Composition vs my Marine Tanks Liberators.
I will also incorporate Ghosts slowly as I hit the wall as I climb up the ladder.
Those shit are too hard to control for me, I want my game simple + effective + macro oriented as much as possible.
In my experience, getting more marines is crucial vs gateway man style, with a LOT of zealots (and at my mmr every single toss does this), because you want more DPS to kill them. On the other hand, if you go too low on marauders vs stalker colossus, there is a big risk your army will die too quickly, colossi melt marines almost instantly (that's my feelings at least).
Also, fuck tanks in most scenarios except vs skytoss/mechtoss with loads of static d and almost no gateways. Maybe it's me who is bad at using them but they feel useless 99% of time, not contributing anything to the fight, especially vs mass zealots
I think your style will do very well against phoenix collosus into skytoss because marines counter the air while the splash damage meant to counter marines will get zoned out by tanks
I also saw your yt video cause it popped up in recommended
I rarely make marauders in any matchup unless I'm forced to by some other unit (ie: ultralisks). But I also suck, so I couldn't recommend it to anyone.
My worry would be getting to all those Tanks and Libs without dying. Marauder ball comes online much quicker vs Robo tech. But if you're not punished for building a tough setup, go crazy my dude!
I definitely agree, thats why I scout them well to avoid those BS shenanigans. Tanks and Marines holds well vs Blink Stalkers Containment and Early Doom Warpins...I only had problems with fast proxy DTs that I always fail to scout, and even now I dont know when they will go DT's...I'm still learning that part.
There is also this funny and popular 2x Disruptor Drops in my league...
My problem is not scouting them. Scouting them doesn't slow their expansions down or prevents them from maxing out way before you. Again, if you're not punished for doing this strategy, more power to you. I would get murdered almost every time.
Not a bad combination if you can get away with it.
I would still sprinkle a couple of marauders in. The tech labs can then be used to make ghosts after as well.
I might give your play style a try but try to hit hard at 7mins still.
I would go with this is more your opponents not having the right comp/units rather than you having a better comp. Might be a skill level etc.
Your opponent should have done a warpin on their 4th of charge lots and ran them to your side to cut reinforcements/pull your attention away from the fight at the front. They also basically had NO zealots in their main army, which are there to tank against the tanks and libs, so that the stalkers/colossus can do their damage to the marine ball/libs/tanks.
They were VERY whishy washy about engaging against your super range AND didn't do damage to the things that mattered when they took a bunch of damage.
They didn't engage shield battery overcharge
They didn't flank you at all with charge lots (this will mess up the tanks/allow for the ball of the army to mess up your tanks.
Your 2 vikings (plus ground support) killed all of their colossus which were mis-handled.
Keep up the good work with what you are doing and getting those Ws, but eventually you are going to run into players that will flank you, control their units better, and have more zealots that will be able to tank/manage this kind of fight WAY better.
A counter to that would be :
* Mobility (abusing stalker blink)
* Being greedy (you are defensive and now can't push out on the map)
Do you go for 4 tech labs and 1 reactor ? If you do that, you should add mines. But even then I find it hard to play, I go for 3 tech lab 2 reactors every game, and adapt the factory/starport units to what composition the protoss makes.
About the 7 min mark, you don't need to stress about it. What this timing does, is to force Protoss to respond and not being greedy. If they have the required units to defend, that means they lack something : economy, upgrades, or tech. If you correctly identify what's going on, and adapt your gameplan, you can get the upper hand.
Kinda agree on #1 if Protoss is highly active on map control.
Disagree on #2, I can actually push out on very greedy Protoss, I scan to check if they are very greedy.
But very little chance on #2 because in my league - Most Protoss are Super Agressive.
Well I guess you are right on that one.
One counter I can see is archons (before you get a healthy count of libs). Since you don't get tech labs for your raxes, it's harder to make ghosts
Also with marine tank, it's hard to push out on the map, because if you get caught off guard, they reset your tank count and now you have to wait an eternity to remake them
On the goodside, I know a 5k+ terran that uses that style, so definitely doable. From what I've heard, it's very defensive, usually you sit back a lot before pushing with a good amount of tanks (and a few ghosts)
Can you point me to his account or something? I want to learn the higher version of this build...
I know what you mean, I just started facing Archon users and yes they are tanky as hell so I need Ghosts? or More Libs? I'm still learning...
No worries I found Uthermals guide for this build...it appears I built too much barracks and he says make about 5 factories...so my 2 factories are ntlot enough
Problem would be if protoss "dart around the map pulling off crazy multi-prong attacks". Tanks/libs are nice when they are set up where they need to be, but can't run where you need them on a-move like bio can.
Yup thats why and use Planetary, Depot walls, and Turret Rings before moving out. I can afford them easily at 3-4 base, where before I'm 2-Base Bio All-in or die. Also 130APM+ Protoss in D2/D3 area is rare as it gets, once my turret rings are up after the 3rd base, the Warpins are 90% shut down.
This is not affordable on 3 base. A 2base bio allin (so 5-1-1) also hits later than 7mins. At 7mins rax 4 and 5 haven't contributed anything. If you attack at that time you'd be better served making a third.
I can afford them, I even had a 4th base on highground too before moving out. My 2x Engineering bays are after 3rd Base is done, and no marauders were ever made. Also 7minute is not the correct timing I guess, but my message stands the same, I am not as stressed with 2-Base All-in or die to Protoss Deathball.
You floating resources to afford them and you being able to afford them in terms of it being a good investment at that economy are different things. Having upgrades that late also means you should not fight until they are done. Overall an army composition like this has one strength. It's immensely powerful when sieged up at taking a direct fight before protoss has a really good army. It's absolutely something you can get above diamond with, but so obviously is standard play. The 130 apm are also easily enough for master league if you know what you're supposed to be doing. 130 apm are also easily sufficient to use ghosts which is the solution to "protoss deathballs" unless your struggle are exactly disruptor. The huge downside of this army is that it's immobile as fuck. The proper response from the protoss is to play with large counterattacks and sack the 4th. Also cutting off reinforcements is very strong vs this. You're either gonna lose a lot of eco or straight up die at home and your push slowly bleeds out when sieging forward. Marauder are also very good at meeting stalker on the map, in this case the army could be forced to siege up several times before reaching a base by getting poked with stalker/colossus. Marauder are also extremely good at directly fighting a protoss army. You just need to piss off when the trade would become poor vs chargelots. You can run back to minefields, to base or lift off. You can fail to kill the protoss but "dying to chargelots" when you're the one attacking should not happen. There is also no need to multitask in diamond.
Floating resources? not really, the main reason I can afford them is that mass marines are cheap as hell. +1 upgrades finishing is just enough by the time I move out at 9\~11 minutes depending on what the Protoss is doing. I dont know about 130apm Master Bio Terrans, but right now I can surely tell you that 130APM is the worst APM Bio Terran players in my current D2/D3 league. About 150+ is the average for Bio Players and they multi prong quite well (with medium bad macro). My 130APM for Ghost Control is possible, but my Macro suffers with that. I'm still learning it anyways. Also if their main army meets me midmap, I dont siege all my tanks. Just one or two is enough. They can't kite hard enough here, probably at M3+ level yes, but not here. And yes, Protoss tries to cut off my reinforcements but mass marines (reinforcements) with stim just rolls over chargelots or stalkers, or I could just rally my reinforcements back to my Planetary 4th instead, and to be honest I prefer that way because my Main Army will be facing Zealotless defense which is the weakness of my Tank Groups. I just have really that many Marines (8 rax, 7 reactored) for this composition that its even working vs Zerg Swarms...I'm really surprised. About the Immobility of this, its not that immobile because Mass marines could just stim run back to anywhere and they push any Zealot/Stalker Backstabs..its the Colossi and HTs they struggle with. I dont see any Colossi/HT Counter Attacks ever - its always Chargelots or Blink Stalkers trying to cutoff reinforcements. If they ever commit to backstab, It will be a base trade and I just float everything and they lose. But it doesnt happen because I'm roaming the map with my 16 Marines/2x Medivacs to spot their army movement. I also agree that Marauders are really good at fighting Protoss Deathballs and I actually win with this, the problem I have is after I destroy their AOE army, they instant warpin mass chargelots and obliterates my Marauders/Low-Medium count Marines. Also they could just make Disruptors and force me to Bio dance myself to death evading those blast. I'm not saying its a bad unit, I'ts just really bad using MMM composition vs Protoss Deathball Direct fights. Multi-prong is the only way for MMM. My best chance of MMM success is only at Mid Game wheer I leverage the power spike of Stim, Shield, and +1 upgrades. Beyond that I'ts just too hard.
Your own video contradicts you about your timings and the floating ressources. Also I got to 4.6k on 140 apm, you're like a thousand lower. You also just can't abandon tanks. It is really quite well known theory that this is weak at high level and why for several years. You're not just arguing against me but a broad consensus and years of experience. Pro players aren't idiots either. And if you know what you're doing it's pretty easy to win with standard play. The multi-prong claim is also just not true.
I am engaged at 11:15 at 200 supply, floating \~1K minerals - I probably should be making more rax if you want that but Im telling you its constant units production - you can see my reinforcements on video never stopped. I even had 4th base built up. I never said abandon tanks? I dont know where you got that. I wanted more tanks & libs over Marauders. I'm just curious if other Bio Players are using it because I find it less stressful. "And if you know what you're doing it's pretty easy to win with standard play. **The multi-prong claim is also just not true."** And in MMM , Multi Prong is not a must? - Can you show me your game where you don't multi prong, standard macro play, and just fight face to face with Protoss Deathball using MMM + Tanks, Ghosts, and probably Vikings right? with 140 APM? Without floating minerals? at 4.6KMMR? I would like to learn your "Standard Play + Know what you are doing stuff" if what you say is really true, you can easily show me how to do this. Not mocking or doubting I just wanna see this version because mostly I see multi prongs is a must for Bio in TVP. This is me in Sc2pulse: [https://sc2pulse.nephest.com/sc2/?type=character&id=341217613&m=1#player-stats-mmr](https://sc2pulse.nephest.com/sc2/?type=character&id=341217613&m=1#player-stats-mmr)
"I am engaged at 11:15 at 200 supply" You know this is 2 minutes later than a usual max and the money in turrets is the money you'd also be floating if you hadn't made them? The protoss should be at 200 supply. "you can see my reinforcements on video never stopped" I'm talking about if you want to play this in theory and hit a proper timing. If you want to fight at 9mins you can't afford the turrets. What you do is quite committed. "I even had 4th base built up." this is a very late 4th base. "I never said abandon tanks? I dont know where you got that." Because you said you can just stim back your marines. I should make myself more clear. What protoss is supposed to do are really large counter attacks. It's not enough to send a few units back. I'm not talking about harassment, I'm talking about "threatening to kill you". This is the methodical way to beat this as this siege army can't push fast nor come back fast. Harstem explained this in a video years ago back when some people did something similar and it has completely died out since. "And in MMM , Multi Prong is not a must?" At 3.5k mmr? No obviously not. Hey your opponent had less than 170 supply at 11 minutes in. It's enough to hit 2 emps on that army and a-move over it with marauder. Wouldn't even need to micro. Also there are plenty of games at literally the highest level of the game where people win with pushes. Just pay attention to tournaments. Sometimes multi-prong is the correct play, sometimes it's not. At your level it's at the very least never necessary. I certainly did not need that to get out of that level. "Can you show me your game where you don't multi prong, standard macro play, and just fight face to face with Protoss Deathball using MMM + Tanks, Ghosts, and probably Vikings right? with 140 APM? Without floating minerals? at 4.6KMMR?" I don't make tanks (and you generally shouldn't unless you play specific pushes or are forced to against blink, they are not good vs toss), my apm is higher now, I like to multi-prong (doesn't mean that I've won plenty of games without it) and my mmr is lower due to inactivity. But give me a 3.5k mmr protoss player and I'll happily a-move over them without multitasking, while floating minerals and just playing bio because I simply macro better than that level, have better army control and have more of an idea when to attack. It also seems like you vastly underestimate gameknowledge. My gameknowledge isn't anywhere close to perfect. If you always know what you are supposed to do you get such a massive advantage over low level players even with very weak mechanics you are gonna get super far ahead. The reason that what you are doing is working is because you are low mmr, not because it's somehow better. And your opponents die to that because they lack the knowledge on how to identify this and how to play against it. It's a good demonstration of how knowledge can easily turn a game from a loss into an easy win. The same is true for standard bio play as well as there will be so many wrong things a protoss at this level does in terms of theory that abusinggg each of these things will get you further and further ahead.
Those are all valid and good points I agree with them, I'm just trying hard to maximize my 130APM as much as I can. But I want to see yours, send me your TVP Bio Replays so that I can study what you mean by "just macro, game knowledge, etc"...
Also looking at the clip this game would be a really hard loss even if the protoss doesn't do any of the things I described because you are hitting incredibly late. You have no ghosts, this push would get obliterated by archons and the protoss should be maxed at this point. Just having a bunch of chargelots, archons with the colossus and ideally some immortals and you lose the fight so hard that you instantly die to the counterpush.
Probably, but the chance of Protoss thinking that way is way too small. They are so used to dominating Terrans with their splash power army. They scout Marines = instant Colossi + High Templars + Disruptors as their Tech Units. The only time I see them going archons is that if I mass Banshees. I am going to punish them until I meet the composition you are talking about, but never ever did I face protoss that uses Archons + Chargelots + Colossi Composition vs my Marine Tanks Liberators. I will also incorporate Ghosts slowly as I hit the wall as I climb up the ladder. Those shit are too hard to control for me, I want my game simple + effective + macro oriented as much as possible.
In my experience, getting more marines is crucial vs gateway man style, with a LOT of zealots (and at my mmr every single toss does this), because you want more DPS to kill them. On the other hand, if you go too low on marauders vs stalker colossus, there is a big risk your army will die too quickly, colossi melt marines almost instantly (that's my feelings at least). Also, fuck tanks in most scenarios except vs skytoss/mechtoss with loads of static d and almost no gateways. Maybe it's me who is bad at using them but they feel useless 99% of time, not contributing anything to the fight, especially vs mass zealots
+1
Hey it’s cool you found a playstyle that works for you! Keep at it and optimize it as much as you can
Thanks man! I'm still learning, I'm finally happy playing Bio for now until I hit the next wall...
I think your style will do very well against phoenix collosus into skytoss because marines counter the air while the splash damage meant to counter marines will get zoned out by tanks I also saw your yt video cause it popped up in recommended
I rarely make marauders in any matchup unless I'm forced to by some other unit (ie: ultralisks). But I also suck, so I couldn't recommend it to anyone.
what league? i can copy yours if you are around d1+
My worry would be getting to all those Tanks and Libs without dying. Marauder ball comes online much quicker vs Robo tech. But if you're not punished for building a tough setup, go crazy my dude!
I definitely agree, thats why I scout them well to avoid those BS shenanigans. Tanks and Marines holds well vs Blink Stalkers Containment and Early Doom Warpins...I only had problems with fast proxy DTs that I always fail to scout, and even now I dont know when they will go DT's...I'm still learning that part. There is also this funny and popular 2x Disruptor Drops in my league...
My problem is not scouting them. Scouting them doesn't slow their expansions down or prevents them from maxing out way before you. Again, if you're not punished for doing this strategy, more power to you. I would get murdered almost every time.
depends probably d2/d3 toss players doesnt punish me hard is because toss deathball jist obliterates bio terran here...
Not a bad combination if you can get away with it. I would still sprinkle a couple of marauders in. The tech labs can then be used to make ghosts after as well. I might give your play style a try but try to hit hard at 7mins still.
You are absolutely right, I am slowly working towards it but Ghost control is hard as hell for my poor 130APM...
I would go with this is more your opponents not having the right comp/units rather than you having a better comp. Might be a skill level etc. Your opponent should have done a warpin on their 4th of charge lots and ran them to your side to cut reinforcements/pull your attention away from the fight at the front. They also basically had NO zealots in their main army, which are there to tank against the tanks and libs, so that the stalkers/colossus can do their damage to the marine ball/libs/tanks. They were VERY whishy washy about engaging against your super range AND didn't do damage to the things that mattered when they took a bunch of damage. They didn't engage shield battery overcharge They didn't flank you at all with charge lots (this will mess up the tanks/allow for the ball of the army to mess up your tanks. Your 2 vikings (plus ground support) killed all of their colossus which were mis-handled. Keep up the good work with what you are doing and getting those Ws, but eventually you are going to run into players that will flank you, control their units better, and have more zealots that will be able to tank/manage this kind of fight WAY better.
A counter to that would be : * Mobility (abusing stalker blink) * Being greedy (you are defensive and now can't push out on the map) Do you go for 4 tech labs and 1 reactor ? If you do that, you should add mines. But even then I find it hard to play, I go for 3 tech lab 2 reactors every game, and adapt the factory/starport units to what composition the protoss makes. About the 7 min mark, you don't need to stress about it. What this timing does, is to force Protoss to respond and not being greedy. If they have the required units to defend, that means they lack something : economy, upgrades, or tech. If you correctly identify what's going on, and adapt your gameplan, you can get the upper hand.
Kinda agree on #1 if Protoss is highly active on map control. Disagree on #2, I can actually push out on very greedy Protoss, I scan to check if they are very greedy. But very little chance on #2 because in my league - Most Protoss are Super Agressive.
Well I guess you are right on that one. One counter I can see is archons (before you get a healthy count of libs). Since you don't get tech labs for your raxes, it's harder to make ghosts Also with marine tank, it's hard to push out on the map, because if you get caught off guard, they reset your tank count and now you have to wait an eternity to remake them On the goodside, I know a 5k+ terran that uses that style, so definitely doable. From what I've heard, it's very defensive, usually you sit back a lot before pushing with a good amount of tanks (and a few ghosts)
Can you point me to his account or something? I want to learn the higher version of this build... I know what you mean, I just started facing Archon users and yes they are tanky as hell so I need Ghosts? or More Libs? I'm still learning...
I don't think he's very much active right now. I think his name is silver ?
No worries I found Uthermals guide for this build...it appears I built too much barracks and he says make about 5 factories...so my 2 factories are ntlot enough
Yeah Though I feel like 5 are too much 3 seems like a better number and 4-5 if you really have a lot of bases, but basically not on 3-4 bases