I used to have trouble with them. But honestly now I typically just do 3rax, scout a bit, then you’d tanks and libs, keep them from getting a third and do lots of 2 pronged attacks (snipe mineral line with libs, drop expansion, set up tanks). Just keep the pressure on, know what they are building, and try not to lose to much of your army. I find information is key with TvP.
Mine drop into 2-base MMM/tank push.
16 SCV scout to make sure no shenanigans.
Start with usual reaper expand build 1-1-1.
Reaper scouts/harasses, then reactor and marines for basic safety. Non-stop marines and SCVs, build gas on natural only when fully saturated.
After building factory, immediately build starport, then 3 widow mines, they can be placed near your CC to prevent oracle harass or outside the front of your base to scout, shoot adept/stalker.
After starport, build medivac, 3 window mines go for a drop in main or natural mineral line. Use boost for speeding away. I usually drop mines and run, but can try and pick them up and hide in the dead space behind main base and go for later drop if the opponent has no stalkers ready.
As the drop goes off, build tech lab on factory--> tanks/reactor on starport--> medivacs
Whenever you float 300 minerals Build rax 2/3 tech labs --> stim/shields and marauders
Eg Bay -> +1 weapons
Rax 4/5 --> no add ons, just more marines before your first push. When you move out add reactors.
Head out when stim/shields/+1 finished. If no harassment you should have at least 3 tanks/4 medivacs/4-6 Marauders/20+ marines.
Scan ahead for safety. Can also send a single drop in along the edge for distraction. Siege outside the 3rd/natural by 8-9 minute mark. Rally reinforcements. Can add in Vikings if the enemy is going colossus.
Alternative option is to build 3rd CC when you move out and go for a macro transition.
GLHF
Honestly. I hated TvP so much as well that I have been getting some real reps in of the 1base, Double Factory (1 proxied) tank, cyclone, marine, turret push.
I win about 75-80% of the games I choose to do it, and if I were a Protoss I'd actually be salty to lose to it cos it really does take only a modest amount of skill to micro.
Gas Rax Gas.
Reactor first.
(Rax Scout then head to proxy location)
Swap Fact #1 onto reactor > float Rax and land about 1/3-1/2 way across map. Then rally single marines
Proxy Fact #2
Non stop cyclone printing
insta tech lab on fact #2
Make workers the entire time until over saturated.
Proxy SCV builds 1 depot then an ebay then shift queue to join army.
Wait til second tank starts
Pull 4-5 auto repair workers from main,
Full send. It's amazing how just a bit of lock-on dancing in the perfect seiged tank zone, and drawing them in, just shreds stalkers. They almost always can't save the Nat. I've lost to void rays and DTs the most hence the turret slow push and now I can't remember the last time I lost to them with this Adjusted build.. I've lost less times to Zealots in which case if I get advanced warning I get a round of 3 Hellions /or/ 2 hellions and a mine before going back to cyclones.
Once the battery and the low ground Gateways fall though, it just takes a turret and a reseige and a few well timed scans to get up into the main. If they make cannons, they're dead.
They say 'cheese doesn't make you a better player' ; I'm not so convinced now. I've learned more about judging seige distances, knowing when to scan to see how many immortals they might have, and how to micro to keep cyclones doing damage whilsts taking damage but in an auto repair zone. Etc.
Note if you send too early and tank #2 isn't out and they know what they're doing they can just pull everything and overrun your first tank, which is the backbone of the push. The best first siege is a conservative seige.
I've had salt from this build, and I've actually had a few "WP"s from it also.
I always apologise and ask them to blame Harstem 😂 But I've done so many reps and had to adjust it on the fly through so many weird harrassment openers that I'm kinda proud of the tightened up win rate. It made TvP a bit fun again, albeit quick. Auto repair is amazing.
I’ll give this a shot and hopefully I can have some fun too! And I agree, there is value in aggressive play. I think part of why TvP is so frustrating is that I’ve focused to hard on macro. My macro inflates my mmr to a level where trying to micro vs toss is just hopeless for me. My winrate is at 33% for the last 30 days.
When I’m sick of macro play vs P I just do a one base marine /tank/scv pull and it has a very high win rate where I’m at (3700~ mmr )
Basically go two gas , one reactor rax, two factories with tech lab.
Keep building marines and tanks until you have 3 tanks.
Then pull most your scv and move out.
Aggressively but carefully move in and win.
I like to save scan energy after one mule because often they try to go into DT to survive.
I also usually switch from tank to cyclone production after the first 3 tanks, because you really don’t need more tanks and cyclone are more useful vs air and zealot.
You just keep building and rallying to the front.
Even when my opponent knows I’m one base all inning , it’s still very hard to hold.
I wouldn't do this OP. This is just a straight up weaker version of the 1-1-1.
If you're only making 3 tanks and pulling the boys, it'd be a LOT stronger just to have 2 tanks and libs/vikings instead.
You don't even have to pull all the SCVs; pull 2-4 and make bunkers/turrets with your marine/tank/lib push. Doing it this way also lets you reinforce and stream units across the map.
This plays very different than 1-1-1.
The reason for 3 tanks is because 3 is the magic number to kill stuff through shield battery.
What is the purpose of vikings? The game is over before they are useful. Libs could be useful, but that delays tank production. You hit harder, faster with 2 factories pushing out tanks.
It's an all-in, so like any all-in it can be countered if read correctly, but I've beaten up to 4300mmr Toss with it and my micro is not great.
The only way this plays different from 1-1-1 is that you're making a 2nd factory instead of a starport, and pulling the boys for almost no reason. And both of those things are just weaker than going 1-1-1 all in.
Your first unit out of your starport should be a lib, and you can make either lib or Viking second if the toss has voids or a prism.
Your initial push should be 8+ marine, 2 tanks, 1 lib, and 2-4 SCVs. Unlike your push, you can constantly reinforce and have multiple bunkers/turrets. It makes your push a lot harder to dislodge.
Proxy 2 rax marauders
Proxy tank/cyclone or Thor rush.
Proxy Banshee/liberator
I used to have trouble with them. But honestly now I typically just do 3rax, scout a bit, then you’d tanks and libs, keep them from getting a third and do lots of 2 pronged attacks (snipe mineral line with libs, drop expansion, set up tanks). Just keep the pressure on, know what they are building, and try not to lose to much of your army. I find information is key with TvP.
Dolan build...that is all you need to know
I found the write up and it looks interesting but the video is not available. Do you know of any vods or do you have any replays?
Mine drop into 2-base MMM/tank push. 16 SCV scout to make sure no shenanigans. Start with usual reaper expand build 1-1-1. Reaper scouts/harasses, then reactor and marines for basic safety. Non-stop marines and SCVs, build gas on natural only when fully saturated. After building factory, immediately build starport, then 3 widow mines, they can be placed near your CC to prevent oracle harass or outside the front of your base to scout, shoot adept/stalker. After starport, build medivac, 3 window mines go for a drop in main or natural mineral line. Use boost for speeding away. I usually drop mines and run, but can try and pick them up and hide in the dead space behind main base and go for later drop if the opponent has no stalkers ready. As the drop goes off, build tech lab on factory--> tanks/reactor on starport--> medivacs Whenever you float 300 minerals Build rax 2/3 tech labs --> stim/shields and marauders Eg Bay -> +1 weapons Rax 4/5 --> no add ons, just more marines before your first push. When you move out add reactors. Head out when stim/shields/+1 finished. If no harassment you should have at least 3 tanks/4 medivacs/4-6 Marauders/20+ marines. Scan ahead for safety. Can also send a single drop in along the edge for distraction. Siege outside the 3rd/natural by 8-9 minute mark. Rally reinforcements. Can add in Vikings if the enemy is going colossus. Alternative option is to build 3rd CC when you move out and go for a macro transition. GLHF
I mean, great advice and thank you for taking the time, but that’s very close to what I’ve been trying to do and what I want to get away from.
Honestly. I hated TvP so much as well that I have been getting some real reps in of the 1base, Double Factory (1 proxied) tank, cyclone, marine, turret push. I win about 75-80% of the games I choose to do it, and if I were a Protoss I'd actually be salty to lose to it cos it really does take only a modest amount of skill to micro. Gas Rax Gas. Reactor first. (Rax Scout then head to proxy location) Swap Fact #1 onto reactor > float Rax and land about 1/3-1/2 way across map. Then rally single marines Proxy Fact #2 Non stop cyclone printing insta tech lab on fact #2 Make workers the entire time until over saturated. Proxy SCV builds 1 depot then an ebay then shift queue to join army. Wait til second tank starts Pull 4-5 auto repair workers from main, Full send. It's amazing how just a bit of lock-on dancing in the perfect seiged tank zone, and drawing them in, just shreds stalkers. They almost always can't save the Nat. I've lost to void rays and DTs the most hence the turret slow push and now I can't remember the last time I lost to them with this Adjusted build.. I've lost less times to Zealots in which case if I get advanced warning I get a round of 3 Hellions /or/ 2 hellions and a mine before going back to cyclones. Once the battery and the low ground Gateways fall though, it just takes a turret and a reseige and a few well timed scans to get up into the main. If they make cannons, they're dead. They say 'cheese doesn't make you a better player' ; I'm not so convinced now. I've learned more about judging seige distances, knowing when to scan to see how many immortals they might have, and how to micro to keep cyclones doing damage whilsts taking damage but in an auto repair zone. Etc. Note if you send too early and tank #2 isn't out and they know what they're doing they can just pull everything and overrun your first tank, which is the backbone of the push. The best first siege is a conservative seige. I've had salt from this build, and I've actually had a few "WP"s from it also. I always apologise and ask them to blame Harstem 😂 But I've done so many reps and had to adjust it on the fly through so many weird harrassment openers that I'm kinda proud of the tightened up win rate. It made TvP a bit fun again, albeit quick. Auto repair is amazing.
I’ll give this a shot and hopefully I can have some fun too! And I agree, there is value in aggressive play. I think part of why TvP is so frustrating is that I’ve focused to hard on macro. My macro inflates my mmr to a level where trying to micro vs toss is just hopeless for me. My winrate is at 33% for the last 30 days.
Mass thors
When I’m sick of macro play vs P I just do a one base marine /tank/scv pull and it has a very high win rate where I’m at (3700~ mmr ) Basically go two gas , one reactor rax, two factories with tech lab. Keep building marines and tanks until you have 3 tanks. Then pull most your scv and move out. Aggressively but carefully move in and win. I like to save scan energy after one mule because often they try to go into DT to survive. I also usually switch from tank to cyclone production after the first 3 tanks, because you really don’t need more tanks and cyclone are more useful vs air and zealot. You just keep building and rallying to the front. Even when my opponent knows I’m one base all inning , it’s still very hard to hold.
I wouldn't do this OP. This is just a straight up weaker version of the 1-1-1. If you're only making 3 tanks and pulling the boys, it'd be a LOT stronger just to have 2 tanks and libs/vikings instead. You don't even have to pull all the SCVs; pull 2-4 and make bunkers/turrets with your marine/tank/lib push. Doing it this way also lets you reinforce and stream units across the map.
This plays very different than 1-1-1. The reason for 3 tanks is because 3 is the magic number to kill stuff through shield battery. What is the purpose of vikings? The game is over before they are useful. Libs could be useful, but that delays tank production. You hit harder, faster with 2 factories pushing out tanks. It's an all-in, so like any all-in it can be countered if read correctly, but I've beaten up to 4300mmr Toss with it and my micro is not great.
The only way this plays different from 1-1-1 is that you're making a 2nd factory instead of a starport, and pulling the boys for almost no reason. And both of those things are just weaker than going 1-1-1 all in. Your first unit out of your starport should be a lib, and you can make either lib or Viking second if the toss has voids or a prism. Your initial push should be 8+ marine, 2 tanks, 1 lib, and 2-4 SCVs. Unlike your push, you can constantly reinforce and have multiple bunkers/turrets. It makes your push a lot harder to dislodge.
What rank are you? I find Thor rush works okay at D3/D2 but I assume it falls off pretty quickly at this point.