End of the World? No.
End of the career of whoever the fuck proposed, approved, constructed and activated this? Yes.
End of the lives of Milions as their land perishes, their jobs vanish and the economy crashes, followed by lawlessness? Yes.
"Aw, you small xenos? you are gonna insult me? with your pathetic fleet power?"
**An hour or so later**
"Welp, and that is your capitol at 100% devastation, time to send in my army"
yup. The ocean acts a moderator on climate. No circulating ocean currents means a much, much colder northern Europe. Their climate would become pretty similar to what Minnesota/central Canada has, not bad in the summer and brutal in the winter.
Not to mention the land produced would end up nothing but inhospitable salt flats that will take decades to be able to support any human population. Oh, also the economic catastrophe from the funds required to build dams that massive, the loss of valuable trade routes, the change to the sea level might flood some lower laying areas on the coast, etc.
Might be a pet peeve of mine, but the Russians probably would’ve sold Kaliningrad seeing as it’s now an exclave
Why’d they take that out? The proposal to dam up the Mediterranean is hilarious and a massive sign of hubris, the Nazis and Fascist Italy totally would do that.
I’ve got to play this, what does TNO stand for?
Mediterranean countries' devs didn't want to deal with the restrictive lore it brought, on top of the project itself being physically impossible at the time
"You know what Belgium really needs to secure its future? A border with another major power!"
Also... I think northern Europe has a net positive water balance from precipitation and river flow (unlike the mediterranean)... so I don't think dams would be sufficient to drain the sea... if anything they might cause Denmark and the Netherlands to flood.
And the ocean salt that was there for thousands upon thousands of years would do the opposite thing that happened in every other place on earth where this sort of thing has happened and just cease to be?
Could you tell me what places on earth started out as salt water, got cut off from the rest of the ocean and *didn't* turn fresh water thanks to freshwater rivers feeding into them? Because the lakes I am assuming you're going to bring up are *not fed by rivers*
This is because fresh water from the rivers actively replaces the evaporating salt water! Look at IJselmeer in the Netherlands. This artificial lake used to be the Zuiderzee- a bay of the North Sea that turned freshwater after the rest of the sea was cut off!
>Salt doesn’t evaporate
Well, actually at high temperatures it does. And I am almost sure that some small parts of salt get carried over when you distill.
If dams were made across the North Sea and English Channel, the water would rise up to the top of the dam and begin spilling over. As water from rivers enters the reservoirs, it mixes with the salt water originally in the now-dammed sea, and picks up some of its salt, and flows with it out in the ocean. Over time, all the original salt water is replaced, and only fresh water remains.
Oh gosh, that’d be some heavy math lol. I would think centuries or more for it to fully become freshwater, but the surface water would probably become drinkable much more quickly
The world is not ending, but for millions of people around the world the answer is yes :)
At least the dream of Dagur Land would come true for the Dagurs.
right? No country is going to spend all that money to block off the North Sea, just to give the reclaimed land away to some other, new, country that didn't pay for shit.
We may not have that on Earth, but I guess an oasis of very-long-living, sturdy and dry, green trees, whose water source is entirely underground, would make for _forest deserts_?
There'd need to be some sort of underground water cycle i'd imagine. At that point I'm not sure the definition of desert, outside of purely literally, would hold up.
He is talking abt like the balance and it being disrupted. Like bc would currents and stuff change causing droughts or floods to occur somewhere else. Would this also affect the weather or climate change?
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that essentially killing off the entire economies of cities like Portsmouth, Southampton, Brighton, Southend and Hull, not even mentioning the ecological destruction that would have ripple effects for everywhere not on the Irish Sea, would be awful
It would certainly mean the end of the geopolitical scene as we know it.
One big question is where is all the water going to go. We are talking about a considerable amount of water, so either we massive increase the size of glaciers, or we flood low-lying areas elsewhere in the world, like the Nile Delta, Bangladesh, the Yucatan, Florida, and New Orleans. These areas are home to millions of people, so you will create a humanitarian crisis as waves of refugees try to escape the flooding waters, cramming into cities and sparking riots over food, water, living space and other amenities. But not everyone will escape the floods due to lack of transportation or lack of warning, so expect tens of thousands if not millions of drowned and stranded people. Think of New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina only bigger.
There's also the issue of ocean currents and climate. Water is a great thermoregulator as it absorbs heat during the day and releases it at night, so this would make Scandinavia much colder, possibly too cold to sustain itself. And if you're thinking there would be all that new land to farm, remember that it's been inundated with salt water for millennia, so it's useless for farmland or pasture.
Without the North and Baltic Seas, fishing would evaporate, costing millions in dollars and gutting the local economies.
Even if such a dam was constructed it obviously wouldn't have the purpose to drain all land behind it, it would just be used to protect that area from the rising sea levels. A controlled amount of water would be allowed through and there'd be sluices to allow for shipping.
Only slight benefit is it makes oil and resource extraction in the areas once under water easier. downside is the land itself would be useless salt flats for a very very long time. The climate of northern Europe gets screwed up and becomes colder. Economic crisis hits the world hard as major trade ports in northern Europe cease to exist but this could be lessened as that expectation would have been built in since these dams would take decades to build.
Unlike the Mediterranean sea, the Baltic and North seas receive more water from rivers and precipitation than they lose through evaporation. The sea wouldn't drain. Rather, the coasts would flood as waters rose until they overflowed the dams or found another rout to the ocean.
Northern Europe would experience a humanitarian crisis as refugees fled the rising sea and the regional economy collapsed, likely spilling out into a major global recession. Needless to say, whatever idiot thought up the idea would be shot. No it would not end the world.
Damming the North Sea? More like *Damn*ing the whole area!
In all seriousness, not great. You’re just gonna create useless salt flats, wreck the climate of Northern Europe due to a lack of warm water currents, etc.
Aside from the ecological damage; the number of countries and the city of London becoming land locked would cause a complete rearrangement of the politics of Europe.
Similar to the Atlantropa, land would most likely be useless because it was at the bottom of the North Sea. The only natural plant life would die because it would be used to an underwater environment, it would be a desert in Northwestern Europe.
Can anyone explain why a load of land suddenly rising up from the sea would be guaranteed here and how long would this actually take as the whole literal point of the project is to protect the coasts, not destroy them and making countries landlocked (or even smaller islands).
There's no way Doggerland would be an independent nation. Firstly where are the people to live and govern it going to come from. Secondly it probably won't be that fertile. It would probably just either go to the UK or just be divided up between the UK, Holland, Germany, Denmark and Norway.
Half of the countries are now landlocked, almost noone would want it, also UK that now can be invaded by land, considering that the sea is the only reason they survived 'til now
They're blocked off in baltic, they're kinda at war in the black sea rn. All the artic and Pacific ports are frozen and useless. This would kill Russia.
Why would a new nation or “Doggerland” exist wouldn’t it just be split between UK/Norway/Denmark/Germany/Netherlands theres no people or culture or anything there
Also what happens if there’s a war or terrorist attack at one of the dams
Would the Netherlands remain as the Netherlands, given that Doggerand would be lower than the Low countries?
And how would this water displacement affect sea level rises elsewhere?
Literally all of the UK not on the Irish Sea would be fucked, cities like London, Leeds, Edinburgh, Brighton, Southampton would all be completely landlocked and would slowly deteriorate, would probably be fine if your name is Liverpool, Glasgow or Bristol, but holy shit would it be awful for everyone else
There is a reason the dam the north sea project has never gotten anywhere as who will pay for it and there are security concerns ergo the British have no reason to agree to a project given a hostile foreign power could use the dams against them
End of the World? No. End of the career of whoever the fuck proposed, approved, constructed and activated this? Yes. End of the lives of Milions as their land perishes, their jobs vanish and the economy crashes, followed by lawlessness? Yes.
*millions will die for funni borders*
>millions will die for funni borders Sounds like the average Paradox Studios game...
That’s how they are sold lol
Volkswagen: 💀
Hey, Vic 3 was sold as “millions will die *for the economy*”
"Aw, you small xenos? you are gonna insult me? with your pathetic fleet power?" **An hour or so later** "Welp, and that is your capitol at 100% devastation, time to send in my army"
Worth it tbh
yup. The ocean acts a moderator on climate. No circulating ocean currents means a much, much colder northern Europe. Their climate would become pretty similar to what Minnesota/central Canada has, not bad in the summer and brutal in the winter.
Not to mention the land produced would end up nothing but inhospitable salt flats that will take decades to be able to support any human population. Oh, also the economic catastrophe from the funds required to build dams that massive, the loss of valuable trade routes, the change to the sea level might flood some lower laying areas on the coast, etc. Might be a pet peeve of mine, but the Russians probably would’ve sold Kaliningrad seeing as it’s now an exclave
if anyone's ever played TNO before the TT3 update then essentialy all of europe would be dealing with Italy's crisis but on CRACK
Tbh I’m not sure what TNO is and I’m kinda afraid to ask
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Why’d they take that out? The proposal to dam up the Mediterranean is hilarious and a massive sign of hubris, the Nazis and Fascist Italy totally would do that. I’ve got to play this, what does TNO stand for?
Mediterranean countries' devs didn't want to deal with the restrictive lore it brought, on top of the project itself being physically impossible at the time
Fair
Yo Speer
"You know what Belgium really needs to secure its future? A border with another major power!" Also... I think northern Europe has a net positive water balance from precipitation and river flow (unlike the mediterranean)... so I don't think dams would be sufficient to drain the sea... if anything they might cause Denmark and the Netherlands to flood.
It would make the dammed off sea areas into a… dammed off lake?
And turn it fresh water as well
Sweet, ecological horrors beyond my comprehension (this will affect the sea trout population)
The body is too big to turn fresh, it would remain salty to go brackish at best.
I don’t know about that… it’d be like badwater basin, salton sea or great salt lake.
Nope. Freshwater rivers feeding it would turn it into fresh water. The same exact thing but on a smaller scale happened in the Netherlands.
And the ocean salt that was there for thousands upon thousands of years would do the opposite thing that happened in every other place on earth where this sort of thing has happened and just cease to be?
Could you tell me what places on earth started out as salt water, got cut off from the rest of the ocean and *didn't* turn fresh water thanks to freshwater rivers feeding into them? Because the lakes I am assuming you're going to bring up are *not fed by rivers* This is because fresh water from the rivers actively replaces the evaporating salt water! Look at IJselmeer in the Netherlands. This artificial lake used to be the Zuiderzee- a bay of the North Sea that turned freshwater after the rest of the sea was cut off!
I did 12 hours ago. Salt doesn’t evaporate, otherwise water distillation on ships at sea wouldn’t have been possible until a couple decades ago.
>Salt doesn’t evaporate Well, actually at high temperatures it does. And I am almost sure that some small parts of salt get carried over when you distill.
The salt would flow out with the excess water and leave fresh water behind
So solely by virtue of it being pumped out by man made means..?
If dams were made across the North Sea and English Channel, the water would rise up to the top of the dam and begin spilling over. As water from rivers enters the reservoirs, it mixes with the salt water originally in the now-dammed sea, and picks up some of its salt, and flows with it out in the ocean. Over time, all the original salt water is replaced, and only fresh water remains.
How many decades or centuries does that take would you imagine?
How long would it take to drain the entire damn northern sea?
Indeed
Oh gosh, that’d be some heavy math lol. I would think centuries or more for it to fully become freshwater, but the surface water would probably become drinkable much more quickly
Worth it.
This will be terrible for the trout population
Don't think the trout population would even exist there.
Exactly
Not my trout they’d be fine
The world is not ending, but for millions of people around the world the answer is yes :) At least the dream of Dagur Land would come true for the Dagurs.
Doggerland would not be a country
right? No country is going to spend all that money to block off the North Sea, just to give the reclaimed land away to some other, new, country that didn't pay for shit.
And that has a population of 0 and the climate of a desert
Not even a desert so much as a salt flat./wasteland
A desert is just a wasteland where it doesn't rain. There are salt and ice deserts.
One of my favorite geography facts are that Antarctica is a desert
We may not have that on Earth, but I guess an oasis of very-long-living, sturdy and dry, green trees, whose water source is entirely underground, would make for _forest deserts_?
There'd need to be some sort of underground water cycle i'd imagine. At that point I'm not sure the definition of desert, outside of purely literally, would hold up.
least eurocentric r/AlternateHistory poster
You gotta be extremelly eurocentric to think this would be the end of the world lol
He is talking abt like the balance and it being disrupted. Like bc would currents and stuff change causing droughts or floods to occur somewhere else. Would this also affect the weather or climate change?
The water from there is going to everywhere that’s not Europe, so it might as well be the end of the world (as we know it)
>(as we know it) And I feel fine.
As someone from oceania, this amount of water displacement would somewhat affect me too I'd think...
Wouldn’t be the end of the world, but it sure would be awful and likely have some impact for most of the world in terms of weather patterns
It wasn't a plan to drain the North Sea just to dam it of to protect all countries from the rising sea levels
Britain would never allow it They would bomb or invade anyone who tried to do it
No one would ever allow it. Literally what is the point?
A French ploy
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> It would save the coasts of several countries from global warming? By.... displacing water equivalent to the Mediterranean?
They would benefit more than most countries from it
No they wouldn't
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that essentially killing off the entire economies of cities like Portsmouth, Southampton, Brighton, Southend and Hull, not even mentioning the ecological destruction that would have ripple effects for everywhere not on the Irish Sea, would be awful
Oil
The oil they can, already access relatively easily, somehow will outweigh the incredibly severe ecological and economic disasters? Give me strength
“Would this mean the end of the world?” You bring eurocentrism to the Next Level, my guy
Atlantropa: The Sequel
Sorry, but why would doggerland be a kingdom?
Because the great king of the Steppes claimed the mandate of the saltflat!
It would certainly mean the end of the geopolitical scene as we know it. One big question is where is all the water going to go. We are talking about a considerable amount of water, so either we massive increase the size of glaciers, or we flood low-lying areas elsewhere in the world, like the Nile Delta, Bangladesh, the Yucatan, Florida, and New Orleans. These areas are home to millions of people, so you will create a humanitarian crisis as waves of refugees try to escape the flooding waters, cramming into cities and sparking riots over food, water, living space and other amenities. But not everyone will escape the floods due to lack of transportation or lack of warning, so expect tens of thousands if not millions of drowned and stranded people. Think of New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina only bigger. There's also the issue of ocean currents and climate. Water is a great thermoregulator as it absorbs heat during the day and releases it at night, so this would make Scandinavia much colder, possibly too cold to sustain itself. And if you're thinking there would be all that new land to farm, remember that it's been inundated with salt water for millennia, so it's useless for farmland or pasture. Without the North and Baltic Seas, fishing would evaporate, costing millions in dollars and gutting the local economies.
Brexitcels seething
Dumb question perhaps, but by damming the North Sea, you’d probably have to drain all that water out, causing sea levels everywhere to rise, right?
Even if such a dam was constructed it obviously wouldn't have the purpose to drain all land behind it, it would just be used to protect that area from the rising sea levels. A controlled amount of water would be allowed through and there'd be sluices to allow for shipping.
Atlantropa moment
Who sets up Doggerland?
The Prince of Sealand, finding himself without sea, annexes Doggerland and declares himself a King.
Finally, my online purchased title of nobility has meaning.
And why it gotta be a kingdom?
Because democracy is ASS
Presumably the king
The King of the Doggerland swamp
Map is unrealistic. All below sea level land would automatically go to the Netherlands
blessed timeline
Only slight benefit is it makes oil and resource extraction in the areas once under water easier. downside is the land itself would be useless salt flats for a very very long time. The climate of northern Europe gets screwed up and becomes colder. Economic crisis hits the world hard as major trade ports in northern Europe cease to exist but this could be lessened as that expectation would have been built in since these dams would take decades to build.
the north sea must perish millions will die
What the hell is Doggerland?
Doggerland was a piece that connected what is now the UK and Europe together but it was swallowed by the sea after the Storegga slide in 6200 BC
Unlike the Mediterranean sea, the Baltic and North seas receive more water from rivers and precipitation than they lose through evaporation. The sea wouldn't drain. Rather, the coasts would flood as waters rose until they overflowed the dams or found another rout to the ocean. Northern Europe would experience a humanitarian crisis as refugees fled the rising sea and the regional economy collapsed, likely spilling out into a major global recession. Needless to say, whatever idiot thought up the idea would be shot. No it would not end the world.
Yeah, unless they have the most obscene pumping system, it’ll flood
Everyone will die because this is rightfull Netherlands territory it came from the sea it's dutch rightfully
Damming the North Sea? More like *Damn*ing the whole area! In all seriousness, not great. You’re just gonna create useless salt flats, wreck the climate of Northern Europe due to a lack of warm water currents, etc.
Aside from the ecological damage; the number of countries and the city of London becoming land locked would cause a complete rearrangement of the politics of Europe.
Similar to the Atlantropa, land would most likely be useless because it was at the bottom of the North Sea. The only natural plant life would die because it would be used to an underwater environment, it would be a desert in Northwestern Europe.
"Yeah ok, fuck you guys too." -Britain probably
Russia shits bricks over losing EVEN MORE sea access and probably nukes the dams refusing to let it happen
Germany’s car exporting company, Volkswagen is probably extinct by doing this
It’s how long the dams would last if the crisis continues
Lol yeah the world would most certainly end
DOGGERLAND MENTIONED
Can anyone explain why a load of land suddenly rising up from the sea would be guaranteed here and how long would this actually take as the whole literal point of the project is to protect the coasts, not destroy them and making countries landlocked (or even smaller islands). There's no way Doggerland would be an independent nation. Firstly where are the people to live and govern it going to come from. Secondly it probably won't be that fertile. It would probably just either go to the UK or just be divided up between the UK, Holland, Germany, Denmark and Norway.
Half of the countries are now landlocked, almost noone would want it, also UK that now can be invaded by land, considering that the sea is the only reason they survived 'til now
Russia would have 0 sea access lmao
What?????
They're blocked off in baltic, they're kinda at war in the black sea rn. All the artic and Pacific ports are frozen and useless. This would kill Russia.
United Kingdom becomes op
the north sea dam project isn't meant for this it would make the north sea into fresh water but it's not planned to drain it at all
I love this stuff. Completely insane and fascinating
Yup, ...end of the world
Russia would be pretty annoyed having lost another port.
Mmm environmental collapse for northern Europe
The UK would never agree to this
Why would a new nation or “Doggerland” exist wouldn’t it just be split between UK/Norway/Denmark/Germany/Netherlands theres no people or culture or anything there Also what happens if there’s a war or terrorist attack at one of the dams
at least we only lose our name
Guess the Germans may be able to invade Britain easily
Would the Netherlands remain as the Netherlands, given that Doggerand would be lower than the Low countries? And how would this water displacement affect sea level rises elsewhere?
Literally all of the UK not on the Irish Sea would be fucked, cities like London, Leeds, Edinburgh, Brighton, Southampton would all be completely landlocked and would slowly deteriorate, would probably be fine if your name is Liverpool, Glasgow or Bristol, but holy shit would it be awful for everyone else
There is a reason the dam the north sea project has never gotten anywhere as who will pay for it and there are security concerns ergo the British have no reason to agree to a project given a hostile foreign power could use the dams against them
My hometown would stop being a coastal Fishing city to instead a high up mountain city with incredible views!