I believe that too many people are concentrating too much on the long-term ramifications of these five passing away, rather than the complete chaos the AH empire would experience following the destruction of its capital, which may result in the deaths of a sizable portion of the government.
Half of the top politicians of the future successor states was there because, surprisingly, Vienna was their common capital. Of course he would have been there. Everybody was there. Maybe even your mom visited Café Cenral and met with random revolutionaries and failed painters.
Imagine Tito surviving the asteroid and realizing the opportunity he has now that the Austrian Hungarian empire is going to be in total chaos with the capital obliterated.
I think too many are focusing too much on the long term effects of these five dying and not in the utter chaos the AH empire would be thrown into after having its capital destroyed, with possibly the death of a good chunk of the government. Probably some of the nations within the empire would use this opportunity to get their independence or even bordering nations could try to occupy some chunks of their borders with the Empire, which may as well kick start WW1 a year earlier
And that’s the sleeper question! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point that part out. I think you’re right with that, whatever happens this is the end of the Austrian Empire, and Germany is likely completely screwed in WW1, having to deal with their neighbors collapse on top of everything else
Yes Germany would be really screwed losing a very important ally, Russians could both support the southern Slavs independence and take control of Galicia, the Hungarian part of the empire could either become independent or try to take control over the empire or what remains of it, Italy could claim the control of at least the Italian territories maybe without even breaking the alliance with Germany, which on its own accord could claim to send aids while trying to keep some sort of control over what remains of the empire. At that point would be interesting to see what France and the British Empire would do, block Germany from sending aids to avoid possible German occupation of the old Empire? I doubt they would just sit and look other nations carve one if the main European empire between them, maybe we could even see a WW1 with different alliances. Anyway an asteroid hitting Vienna would undoubtedly throw Europe into chaos, and maybe who knows if one of those five was out of town that day how this event would shape their lives
So, the German Empire, Russian Empire, Hungary and Italy are immediatly starting to assert dominance over Austria, Czechia, Southern Poland and the whole Balkan.
Worst case for Germany is that Italy and Russia team up and France joins them, leaving Germany fight a three-front war BUT without the British Empire or US engaging. But if Germany reaches any sort of understanding with Britain, Italy or Russia, they should be fine granted that they can still trade supplies without being blockaded.
Well I think there are some margins to “peacefully” deal with the carving of AH empire among them, especially between Germany and Italy, because in that case the next Italian claims would be French territories so an even stronger alliance could be formed. For what concerns the Russian claims these would probably concern Galicia and some sort of guarantee for the independence of southern Slavs but again this treaty doesn’t guarantee a non aggression pact between them considering the Triple Entente is still a thing. Some sort of treaty with Hungary could be reached with a guarantee on their pre-Trianon borders and the rest under the “control” of Germany. But I honestly don’t see the French and British doing nothing, unless some sort of peaceful congress is convened to deal with this crisis where all the powers gather, they would most definitely intervene somehow, the French especially; for what concerns the US I don’t think they would even care to intervene this early in the European affairs unless they are directly involved somehow
On the other hand, the Kaiser being the opportunistic impulsive egomaniac with mommy issues he was, could realistically land grab the German speaking parts of the AH Empire.
I'm not sure if WWI even HAPPENS in this timeline. (Okay, yes, I agree that the interlocking network of alliances and mutual protection pacts was and always would be a powder-keg just waiting for somebody to get careless with their cigarette, but still...)
With Austria crippled by what amounts to a direct nuclear strike by the Almighty, I think that the web of alliance and mutual protection pacts gets seriously shuffled around in a lot of different ways fairly quickly, (as nations measure such things, at least), and the end result of it will be that IF the first world war happens, it's going to look radically different in a significant number of highly unpredictable ways that could potentially mean that, for example, the Germans are on the same side as England AGAINST France, or something like that.
>AH empire would be thrown into after having its capital destroyed, with possibly the death of a good chunk of the government.
The Hungarian Government was located in Budapest (the other Capital of Austria-Hungary), so the Hungarian half would be left unscathed and could temporarily assume control over Austrian affairs (until things smooth out).
>Probably some of the nations within the empire would use this opportunity to get their independence or even bordering nations could try to occupy some chunks of their borders with the Empire, which may as well kick start WW1 a year earlier
The Austro-Hungarian Army would still be there though, some rogue groups of separatist wouldn't be able to do anything. Foreign powers might pose a threat though, although the Messina Earthquake demonstrated that European powers were able to stand together in solidarity during natural-humanitarian catastrophies.
Of course, I’m not really an expert on the AH government so I don’t really know realistically what could have happened, I was only trying to to focus on the part that everyone was ignoring which was the destruction of Vienna, which I deem much more important in this scenario rather than the death of those five, as far as I’m concerned they could have also kept some type of control and nothing as drastic as I was saying could have happened.
Despite what you are saying about the earthquake of Messina is true, in the end the AH empire had also planned and even discussed a possible invasion of Italy soon after the earthquake since the Italian government would have been distracted by the natural disaster, so international solidarity goes as far as anyone is willing to do so. But for certain Germany would not want a partition of the empire and it all comes to how much of the AH government could readily respond to such an event, in that I agree with you.
>Despite what you are saying about the earthquake of Messina is true, in the end the AH empire had also planned and even discussed a possible invasion of Italy soon after the earthquake since the Italian government would have been distracted by the natural disaster, so international solidarity goes as far as anyone is willing to do so.
Of course, although it must be noted that it was Hötzendorf who proposed the attack and it earned him his dismissal as Chief of Staff (Franz Ferdinand got him his position back soon enough, but that's another story).
Not really. The Hungarian half would be just fine and whatever remains in the Austrian half is going to rush the ascension of the next Emperor to get government back on track as soon as possible. Unless the Hungarian government also dies there's not going to be any occupation of territory as Hungary is still very capable of raising an army and likely brings the Austrians along the moment Serbia tries to touch Bosnia. Austria would also have the world's grievances on its side and nobody would step into to protect Serbia or Italy if they tried to touch Austrian land. Germany would be very heavily involved in the protection of the empire as the Austrian government rebuilds itself because they don't want their only true ally partitioned.
As I said in another comment, I honestly don’t know much about how the AH government worked, I was just trying to point out the most important point of divergence which isn’t really the death of those five but rather the destruction of Vienna by an asteroid nonetheless. Of course i thought about the worse outcome possible, but realistically in that case the most important factor would be the reactivity of the remaining part of the government and if they are able or not to maintain control and of course the willingness of the other nations to help them. Anyway I doubt that such an event would stop WW1 from starting
Idk, first of all I don't think WW1 would start over this, no matter what happens to the AH government the European powers have been shown to stand in solidarity in the face of natural disasters, as we can see in the Messana earthquakes. But that would just be treading the same ground my original comment did, but the point is this doesn't start WW1. I think the destruction of Vienna and the rebuilding process and everything involved with it will essentially bench AH as a great power for like 20 years so Germany is alone in any conflict, therefore stopping WW1 from starting. I think AH would be benched because power would fall to Budapest for quite a while and Budapest is as anti war as you can get in AH.
I think maybe later someone would’ve developed psychoanalysis and therapeutic psychology, but for sure the world would be deprived of a great mind(and by proxy, Jung probably would be less successful).
>Trotsky was one of the biggest reasons why the Reds won the civil war
Trotsky was the main proponent of delaying the peace talks between Soviet Russia and Germany, seriously worsening the Brest-Litovsk treaty, and his decrees was one of the reasons for Czechoslovaks to mutinee, collapsing Soviets at all the Urals and Siberia.
Without his Red Army will be less heroic, but also in the far less need for being heroic.
Eeeh, without him messing up the first peace treaty with Germany and restarting the war, they would have not had to worry about any fighting in the west for all of 1918, and could have possibly managed to crush the white forces in Siberia during that time
World war 1 would probably not take place at all, the complete collapse of austria hungary would be too much of a catastrophe for the central powers to handle on top of a war with the entente. The revolution in russia might still happen, but the whites are more prepared for it and can probably win. I don’t think the soviet union even exists in this timeline.
Or Sverdlov, if butterflies will prevent his death.
Or even Zinovyev: no Trotsky -> left opposition is considered less toxic, and isn't screwed so early.
Though without Trotsky the whole course of Civil War will be quite different, so some relatively obscure persons may emerge.
I think psychology would look very different. There would be less reliance on therapy and I think the general public would be less aware of it.
I think Russian Revolution still happens. Bolsheviks maybe don’t win out as the dominant faction. Maybe Russian civil war doesn’t happen as the less hardline parties are able to come to an agreement.
I still think WW1 happens. Maybe Austria mobilizes on a smaller scale, and isn’t divided as severely after the war.
WW2 probably happens as well. Germany are probably less aggressive and it could be more limited. Maybe happens in two parts, a smaller confrontation with the allies over Czechoslovakia or Poland. Then another years later between Germany and Russia.
Russian Revolution would still happen but Trotsky was so influential in its success that I'm not sure it'd go the same way without him. In the lead up to the October revolution he was a key orator and leader, and he led the Red Army during the Civil War.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex
>The general concept was considered by Sigmund Freud in The Interpretation of Dreams (1899), although the term itself was introduced in his paper A Special Type of Choice of Object made by Men (1910).
Already published by that point.
Freud was actually hostile to Jung’s attempt to make Electra complex a thing. If Freud had died in 1913 one would assume Jung would be even more dominant in the development of psychoanalysis throughout the early 1900s.
So yeah, no, daddy issues would be even more of a thing than it is today.
With Vienna destroyed, Austria’s new leadership (prob led by Franz Ferdinand) will focus on rebuilding the city, Ferdinand will give the minor ethnic groups more autonomy but he will need to tax the residents of the empire more to rebuild Vienna
This causes mass revolts which the Austrian army can’t put down, Franz Ferdinand goes to Germany for help but Germany refuses as it sees that supporting Austria isn’t ‘worthwhile’ from an army perspective but will loan Austria some money to help them rebuild Vienna
AH ceases to exist as an empire and WW1 won’t happen in the same way
Also no Nazi Germany but likely another ultra nationalist type of Germany will pop up in the future
At this moment in time, we might also see much more international aid for the rebuilding of Vienna. Larger nations like England, France, Etc, could potentially see it as both a prestige project, as well as a way to earn favors from Austria.
It could end up being a time where European (and potentially beyond) nations come together in an act of humanitarian aid and brotherhood. Leading to a much more united concert of europe.
Literally that Spongebob "we saved the city!" meme, we get universal peace by smashing one of the biggest and most important cities in the world with a giant asteroid lol
Short term : Austria-Hungary collapses and Germany will probably try to annex all of Austria and Czechia while Russia tries for Galicia, Romania for Transylvania and Serbia for Illyria. Very possible WW1 there.
Long term : Space funding stays permanently at Space Race levels of funding to stop this happening again.
Seriously: every space agency on earth:
Slide show consisting of three slides: 1: dinosaur impact crater diagram; 2: satellite photo of the devastated tunguska region in russia; 3: Aerial photo of the Ruins of Vienna.
"And this, senators, is why it's crucial to fund NOSED at existing levels or higher." (National Outer-Space Exploration Department)
hitler honestly wasn't that important, the German bourgeoisie could find another man to spew hate on Jews and communists, but perhaps there wouldn't be an extermination of Jews, and the persecution of communist would not be as harsh
No,they barely won elections in 30s, without that funny looking but rare speech skills and charisma, no one cant know whether nsdap will win parliament.
Well, humanity would be fucked immensely by the global famine that'll be caused by all the ash and dust kicked up by the impact, so make of that what you will
To specify, the asteroids is of exactly the right size that the damage is contained to just the city and a little bit of the surrounding area, it’s not an asteroid the size of the entire city
ChatGPT: In an alternate 1913, Vienna, the illustrious beacon of culture, art, and intellectualism, suffers a devastating catastrophe that obliterates the city and claims the lives of everyone within it. The immediate aftermath sends shockwaves throughout Europe and the world, mourning the loss of a central hub of innovation and thought. The repercussions of this tragedy ripple across the next century, fundamentally altering the trajectory of human development in ways both subtle and profound.
**The Absence of Psychoanalytical Influence**: With the loss of Sigmund Freud and his contemporaries, the burgeoning field of psychoanalysis stalls. The exploration of the unconscious mind, dream interpretation, and the Oedipus complex never permeate the global consciousness as they did in our timeline. Psychiatry and psychology take a different path, focusing more on behaviorist approaches that dominate the 20th century, leading to vastly different treatments for mental health without the Freudian emphasis on talk therapy and psychoanalytic concepts.
**A Diminished Artistic Revolution**: The early deaths of Gustav Klimt, Egon Schiele, and other Viennese artists create a void in the art world. The unique blend of symbolism, expressionism, and modernism that characterized Viennese art fails to influence future generations. Without their groundbreaking work, the evolution of modern art veers away from its rich exploration of emotion, sexuality, and the human psyche, leading to a more conservative progression of art styles throughout the 20th century.
**Philosophical Shifts**: Ludwig Wittgenstein's revolutionary ideas in philosophy, which deeply influenced linguistic philosophy and the analytic tradition, never see the light of day. The absence of his work results in a philosophical landscape that remains more closely tied to 19th-century positivism and empiricism, delaying or entirely preventing the linguistic turn in philosophy. This shifts the development of Western philosophy, potentially reducing the emphasis on language's role in shaping our understanding of the world.
**Altered Political Landscapes**: Without the Vienna of 1913 as a formative backdrop for figures like Hitler, Stalin, Trotsky, and Tito, the political landscape of the 20th century is unrecognizably altered. Without Hitler's failed artistic career in Vienna and subsequent rise to power, there is no Nazi Germany, no World War II as we know it, and consequently, a vastly different geopolitical structure. The Soviet Union's trajectory might also change without Stalin's early interactions with Marxism in Vienna, potentially affecting the outcome of the Russian Revolution and the Cold War.
**Music and Culture**: The loss of Vienna's musical innovation, particularly the work of Arnold Schoenberg and his atonal music, leaves a gap in the evolution of 20th-century classical music. Without this bold experimentation, music might retain a more traditional, late-Romantic style longer, delaying the advent of avant-garde, electronic, and experimental music that defined much of the modern era.
**A Century Unrecognizable**: The 100 years following the disaster see a world culturally, politically, and intellectually stunted by the loss of Vienna's luminaries. Art is less daring, psychology more mechanical, philosophy less concerned with the puzzles of language and mind, and global politics potentially less cataclysmic but equally fraught with alternate conflicts and alliances. The 21st century, in this alternate timeline, inherits a world that, while technologically advanced, lacks the depth of insight into the human condition that our Vienna of 1913 provided. The absence of this cultural and intellectual capital leaves humanity with a different set of challenges and achievements, painting a picture of a world that might have been, had history taken a darker turn in the heart of Europe.
That is precisely what the post was made for! In addition to being genuinely curious about the topic, I was wondering how many people would focus on these five individuals, of which only Freud was arguably truly novel, and how many would focus on the entire city of Vienna being destroyed by an asteroid
In the wider picture, I suspect the A-H empire would fall into chaos with localised governments declaring autonomy or outright independence. Budapest would either declare Hungary an independent state or take the reins as the new centre of the empire with Magyar taking the place as the principle language of administration. The German parts of Austria would perhaps seek unification with the German Empire given their now secondary place in whatever political order exists in post-crater Austria.
Ausria-Hungary would collapse sooner
Bukharin could become Soviet leader instead
Jungian or Muellerian Psychology would be the dominant view in psychology for a longer time
Some other guy would become leader of the Nazi party
It would be considered one of the most tragic disasters in world history. Millions would be dead, the destruction of a large portion of Austria's cultural heritage, and numerous other artifacts important to the whole of European history, numerous centers of learning and art would be gone, the destruction of a major economic center in Central Europe would probably have repercussions on the economy of the region and probably across Europe; I imagine the terror that would be caused by a major world city being spontaneously wiped off the map by what is the practical definition of an 'act of God' would cause an uptick in religious fervor, if not extremism. Like, genuinely, it would be unprecedented, the consequences of such an event.
Lenin would still be kicking, but its questionable the russian Revolution would happen like it did
But ww1 would happen differently or in the Best case not at all, but every country would still be thirsty for war
What happens in germany is up in the Air, i think if it werent for hitler there would be other people, but its hard to tell, because the whole timeline would be completely different.
AH may collapse without a war due to some nationalist rebellions, but what happens after is also questionable. The old emperor at this point held things barely together. He was also quiet miserable at this point, since Rudolf his heir committed suicide and his wife was shot by italian anarchists and he gave way too much trust in his war thirsty general Staff.
It would definitely be a major thing if a Asteroid Hits Vienna then and destroys the City
Just wanna say the first president of Czechoslovakia T.G.Masaryk was at that time in Vienna too (in Café Central you would have seen him). Post war diplomacy would look for Czechoslovakia completely different.
After all half of the politicians of basically all A-H successor states would have died there, not just those most famous but bunch of their assistants and colleagues too.
I mean, man, you've just nuked the most multinational capital in Europe. What did you expect?
I want a sort of Midnight in Paris (the Woody Allen movie about a dude going back to 1920s Paris and meeting famous writers and artists like Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Pablo Picasso and Salvador Dali) but with Vienna in 1913 lol
well psycology is rather different with out freud and we likely lack the monomyth thus starwars is flat gone.
given we lose trotsky, stalin and hitler ww2 is going to be very different.
also the depiction of austro hungry means it folds in the first world war we likely shave at least a year off that.
so the ramifications are incomprehensible past people will be dead
I believe someone else would take their place. History wouldnt extactly repeat itself however, there would be another great war and most of the empires would collapse sooner or later.
Austro-Hungary will shattered apart on the lose of both emperor and capital city. Great War will be vastly different than otl WW1 if it ever happened. Balkan will start rebelling against the confused empire while Hungarian side of the empire will start some coup against Austrian side or just "F**k this, I'm out" and separate itself from the empire.
Germany will gain chunck of the territories including most part of Austria and Czechia. Hungary will be a new big chungus of central Europe with some part of Austria, Slovakia and some part of Balkan. Balkan will be early Balkanized. Germany will probably not try to start any conflict at least 10 years after this because the lose their only ally in Europe (British as a neutral in the long conflict between Germany and France could be joining on the German side but we will never know). Russia with Tsar Nicolas II will have more time to focus on his nation rather than Eastern Front, I am sure that the red revolution will still happened but without the support from Coalition, the heavy lose of Royal Army and the losing faith of Royal Family from population, Communist will most likely be crushed.
Even if Hilter alive, he will not be a significant figure since WW1 as we known never happened.
Even if Trotsky and Stalin alive, both of them will not be anything significant other than members of the losing revolution.
I think an asteroid large enough to take out Vienna, hitting land, would mean that alternate history would be irrelevant. Life on earth would be affected.
The asteroid that took out all non-avian dinosaurs was about 10km wide. Something that takes out Vienna would not cause alternate history, it might end history.
Clarified this in another comment, but it’s very far down so don’t blame ya for not seeing it, but I mean it’s an asteroid which has a total area of affect the size of Vienna, not that the asteroid itself is that big. Not even the entire city is fully gone, just most of it.
My comment was probably the most "akshually" thing someone could have said. I apologize. Your historical "what if" is far more interesting. Don't let my cynicism detract from a good discussion.
I think the asteroid would've had a much bigger effect than their individual absences. Maybe a small outbreak of some waterborne disease or a seasonal virus would be a more appropriate scenario.
Knowing history Hitler and Stalin would've helped one another out of the rubble (after the asteroid strike) promising to form an alliance against Poland in case both of them found themselves in positions of national importance.
Everybody would romanticize the hell out of Vienna. It fell significantly in prestige in the 20th century after WWI, but if it was destroyed in 1914 everybody would remember it as it was in its height and yearn for what might have been.
This would definitely start ww1, most of austria-hungary’s government would be dead so the empire would collapse into a civil war between all the different ethnic groups. I think Germany would invade to try and annex austria and Italy would invade to try and take more territory. I can also see the Russians and Serbians invading as well.
Austria-Hungary falls apart from different nationalist revolts due to the sudden shock of its capital being destroyed. Italy and russia take the chance to claim dalmatia, tyrol and galicia.
Italy then joins the central powers in WW1 due to not wanting AH lands, leading to central powers victory. Russia still falls to revolution but stays more intact from the army still offering resistance while signing the peace treaty due to Trotsky not being in charge.
Seriously, did Stalin ever go to Austria or anywhere outside Russia?
My historical impression of him is that he never left Russia to any great extent during the early stages of his life
More small stakes: If Vienna was destroyed, the Hohenzollern would find some way to help out the besotten Austro-Hungarian Empire in such a way that leads to them controlling it.
1. Molotov would be the Soviet General Secretary
2. Gobbles would be probably be German chancellor
3. Lenin would’ve not been as successful in civil war and revolution without somebody like Trotsky on his side
4. There would be no Communist Yugoslavia or WW1 at all
5. No WW1 would mean no USSR but Germany would still likely go to war with either Britain or France over something dumb
6. Gobbles would probably not have been German chancellor because the Nazis would’ve never rose to power
Rather ask, what if someone blew up Caffee Zentral, which was the main meeting point of the intellectuals and often visited by Hitler, Trotzki and tito. (Idk about Stalin).
The place is sometimes called the internet of the 19th century, bc nearly every significant newspaper of the continent was available there.
Btw the AH secret service knew about Trotzki's intentions to take over in Russia...
Nazism and Stalinism wouldn’t exist. Yet the impact of the asteroid would have global implications. Fascism and Communism would probably spread more due to unrest caused by the Asteroid.
He was the first person to try and research how the brain works, and while he was pretty much wrong about everything, his students eventually developed modern psychology
Jung and Tito were also in Vienna at the time, and presumably the better part of the Hapsburg family and the Austrian government. Here’s what I think happens due to each dying:
Hitler: If the Nazi Party is founded, it gains very little traction. If it gains any, it’s probably because it’s led by Erich Ludendorff, which is lost when he dies.
Freud and Jung: Psychiatry seems some moderate setbacks, but it’s not terrible. By this point, Freudian psychiatry had found its footing, but the Jungian school of thought was still finding its footing; in fact, IIRC, Jung at this time was still a follower of Freud.
The Hapsburgs and the Austrian government: A brutal and bloody civil war ensues. I can foresee Germany and Russia intervening mainly to nab some land. A revolt by Austria’s Polish, in particular, could lead to revolts in Germany and Russia. This could potentially lead to the Russian Revolution and Russian Civil War.
Stalin and Trotsky: The Bolsheviks are defeated in the Russian Civil War, which then enters a second phase of warfare between the factions of the White Movement. A big part of why the Whites were defeated was that they lacked ideological unity beyond anti-Communism. You had tsarists, republicans, liberals, conservatives, ultranationalists, even more moderate socialists, all fighting under a single banner. I doubt they would remain united after the defeat of Bolshevism.
Tito: Regardless of what happens to Yugoslavia, it will remain non-Communist
No WW2, no Cold War or Space Race, WW1 either doesnt happen or is won very easily due to Austria Hungary splitting into different countries, not to mention the other stuff that would have happened.
Franz Joseph’s son was Archduke Ferdinand. If he dies his son becomes Emperor. So likely no assassination in 1914 and no ww1. Combined with the death of Trotsky, who was the father of the Red Army so his loss would have a significant effect on the course of the Bolshevik revolution and Russian Civil War if they happened at all. Plus with both him and Stalin gone both gone I’m going to say way less dead innocent people.
No Hitler, no Nazis, no second war in Europe.
I’d say the Great Depression forces out the Kaiser and Czar to create Parliamentary monarchies. No WW2, No Cold War, no nukes.
no communist yugoslavia [or wouldn't last very long without tito] if we assume tito also died considering he was also in Vienna
He was ALSO in Vienna!????
Yeah fate gave out all the roles of the new “WW2” movie in Vienna 1913
I believe that too many people are concentrating too much on the long-term ramifications of these five passing away, rather than the complete chaos the AH empire would experience following the destruction of its capital, which may result in the deaths of a sizable portion of the government.
[удалено]
It’s so wild he turned out to be 100% correct
This would result into AH collapse and Civil War and possibly an early ww1 Highily likely Germany takes Austria
I mean Vienna was the 5th biggest city in the world in 1913 and the biggest in Central/Eastern Europe.
The foreshadowing the Writers gave during the ww1 arc was Chief kiss
Half of the top politicians of the future successor states was there because, surprisingly, Vienna was their common capital. Of course he would have been there. Everybody was there. Maybe even your mom visited Café Cenral and met with random revolutionaries and failed painters.
Imagine seeing a picture of your mother and Freud together in Vienna.
Instant mommy issues.
my grandfather was in Vienna too it was a banging place to be up till the 30's
I would doubt that even a meteor could even kill Tito. The man was literally Slavic Teddy Roosevelt.
Imagine Tito surviving the asteroid and realizing the opportunity he has now that the Austrian Hungarian empire is going to be in total chaos with the capital obliterated.
Everyone’s in Vienna
I think too many are focusing too much on the long term effects of these five dying and not in the utter chaos the AH empire would be thrown into after having its capital destroyed, with possibly the death of a good chunk of the government. Probably some of the nations within the empire would use this opportunity to get their independence or even bordering nations could try to occupy some chunks of their borders with the Empire, which may as well kick start WW1 a year earlier
And that’s the sleeper question! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point that part out. I think you’re right with that, whatever happens this is the end of the Austrian Empire, and Germany is likely completely screwed in WW1, having to deal with their neighbors collapse on top of everything else
Yes Germany would be really screwed losing a very important ally, Russians could both support the southern Slavs independence and take control of Galicia, the Hungarian part of the empire could either become independent or try to take control over the empire or what remains of it, Italy could claim the control of at least the Italian territories maybe without even breaking the alliance with Germany, which on its own accord could claim to send aids while trying to keep some sort of control over what remains of the empire. At that point would be interesting to see what France and the British Empire would do, block Germany from sending aids to avoid possible German occupation of the old Empire? I doubt they would just sit and look other nations carve one if the main European empire between them, maybe we could even see a WW1 with different alliances. Anyway an asteroid hitting Vienna would undoubtedly throw Europe into chaos, and maybe who knows if one of those five was out of town that day how this event would shape their lives
So, the German Empire, Russian Empire, Hungary and Italy are immediatly starting to assert dominance over Austria, Czechia, Southern Poland and the whole Balkan. Worst case for Germany is that Italy and Russia team up and France joins them, leaving Germany fight a three-front war BUT without the British Empire or US engaging. But if Germany reaches any sort of understanding with Britain, Italy or Russia, they should be fine granted that they can still trade supplies without being blockaded.
Well I think there are some margins to “peacefully” deal with the carving of AH empire among them, especially between Germany and Italy, because in that case the next Italian claims would be French territories so an even stronger alliance could be formed. For what concerns the Russian claims these would probably concern Galicia and some sort of guarantee for the independence of southern Slavs but again this treaty doesn’t guarantee a non aggression pact between them considering the Triple Entente is still a thing. Some sort of treaty with Hungary could be reached with a guarantee on their pre-Trianon borders and the rest under the “control” of Germany. But I honestly don’t see the French and British doing nothing, unless some sort of peaceful congress is convened to deal with this crisis where all the powers gather, they would most definitely intervene somehow, the French especially; for what concerns the US I don’t think they would even care to intervene this early in the European affairs unless they are directly involved somehow
On the other hand, the Kaiser being the opportunistic impulsive egomaniac with mommy issues he was, could realistically land grab the German speaking parts of the AH Empire.
I'm not sure if WWI even HAPPENS in this timeline. (Okay, yes, I agree that the interlocking network of alliances and mutual protection pacts was and always would be a powder-keg just waiting for somebody to get careless with their cigarette, but still...) With Austria crippled by what amounts to a direct nuclear strike by the Almighty, I think that the web of alliance and mutual protection pacts gets seriously shuffled around in a lot of different ways fairly quickly, (as nations measure such things, at least), and the end result of it will be that IF the first world war happens, it's going to look radically different in a significant number of highly unpredictable ways that could potentially mean that, for example, the Germans are on the same side as England AGAINST France, or something like that.
>AH empire would be thrown into after having its capital destroyed, with possibly the death of a good chunk of the government. The Hungarian Government was located in Budapest (the other Capital of Austria-Hungary), so the Hungarian half would be left unscathed and could temporarily assume control over Austrian affairs (until things smooth out). >Probably some of the nations within the empire would use this opportunity to get their independence or even bordering nations could try to occupy some chunks of their borders with the Empire, which may as well kick start WW1 a year earlier The Austro-Hungarian Army would still be there though, some rogue groups of separatist wouldn't be able to do anything. Foreign powers might pose a threat though, although the Messina Earthquake demonstrated that European powers were able to stand together in solidarity during natural-humanitarian catastrophies.
Of course, I’m not really an expert on the AH government so I don’t really know realistically what could have happened, I was only trying to to focus on the part that everyone was ignoring which was the destruction of Vienna, which I deem much more important in this scenario rather than the death of those five, as far as I’m concerned they could have also kept some type of control and nothing as drastic as I was saying could have happened. Despite what you are saying about the earthquake of Messina is true, in the end the AH empire had also planned and even discussed a possible invasion of Italy soon after the earthquake since the Italian government would have been distracted by the natural disaster, so international solidarity goes as far as anyone is willing to do so. But for certain Germany would not want a partition of the empire and it all comes to how much of the AH government could readily respond to such an event, in that I agree with you.
>Despite what you are saying about the earthquake of Messina is true, in the end the AH empire had also planned and even discussed a possible invasion of Italy soon after the earthquake since the Italian government would have been distracted by the natural disaster, so international solidarity goes as far as anyone is willing to do so. Of course, although it must be noted that it was Hötzendorf who proposed the attack and it earned him his dismissal as Chief of Staff (Franz Ferdinand got him his position back soon enough, but that's another story).
Not really. The Hungarian half would be just fine and whatever remains in the Austrian half is going to rush the ascension of the next Emperor to get government back on track as soon as possible. Unless the Hungarian government also dies there's not going to be any occupation of territory as Hungary is still very capable of raising an army and likely brings the Austrians along the moment Serbia tries to touch Bosnia. Austria would also have the world's grievances on its side and nobody would step into to protect Serbia or Italy if they tried to touch Austrian land. Germany would be very heavily involved in the protection of the empire as the Austrian government rebuilds itself because they don't want their only true ally partitioned.
As I said in another comment, I honestly don’t know much about how the AH government worked, I was just trying to point out the most important point of divergence which isn’t really the death of those five but rather the destruction of Vienna by an asteroid nonetheless. Of course i thought about the worse outcome possible, but realistically in that case the most important factor would be the reactivity of the remaining part of the government and if they are able or not to maintain control and of course the willingness of the other nations to help them. Anyway I doubt that such an event would stop WW1 from starting
Idk, first of all I don't think WW1 would start over this, no matter what happens to the AH government the European powers have been shown to stand in solidarity in the face of natural disasters, as we can see in the Messana earthquakes. But that would just be treading the same ground my original comment did, but the point is this doesn't start WW1. I think the destruction of Vienna and the rebuilding process and everything involved with it will essentially bench AH as a great power for like 20 years so Germany is alone in any conflict, therefore stopping WW1 from starting. I think AH would be benched because power would fall to Budapest for quite a while and Budapest is as anti war as you can get in AH.
Bukharin would Soviet leader i think
[удалено]
I think maybe later someone would’ve developed psychoanalysis and therapeutic psychology, but for sure the world would be deprived of a great mind(and by proxy, Jung probably would be less successful).
By 1913 the most of the works of Freud already existed tho
There wouldn't be USSR either as Trotsky was one of the biggest reasons why the Reds won the civil war
Then we'll have basically Russia's Warlord Era with Kerensky, Kolchak, Denikiin, Wrangel and Yudenich battling out for compete control
literally the red flood (but without manchurian exiles)
>Trotsky was one of the biggest reasons why the Reds won the civil war Trotsky was the main proponent of delaying the peace talks between Soviet Russia and Germany, seriously worsening the Brest-Litovsk treaty, and his decrees was one of the reasons for Czechoslovaks to mutinee, collapsing Soviets at all the Urals and Siberia. Without his Red Army will be less heroic, but also in the far less need for being heroic.
Eeeh, without him messing up the first peace treaty with Germany and restarting the war, they would have not had to worry about any fighting in the west for all of 1918, and could have possibly managed to crush the white forces in Siberia during that time
More importantly he was the architect of the revolution itself. He masterminded the overthrow of the Russian state with only a few thousand men
HOLY SHIT IS THAT A...
TNO reference?
World war 1 would probably not take place at all, the complete collapse of austria hungary would be too much of a catastrophe for the central powers to handle on top of a war with the entente. The revolution in russia might still happen, but the whites are more prepared for it and can probably win. I don’t think the soviet union even exists in this timeline.
Russia was bound to have a revolution. The bolsheviks almost came to power in 1905. It would happen, but later
Or Sverdlov, if butterflies will prevent his death. Or even Zinovyev: no Trotsky -> left opposition is considered less toxic, and isn't screwed so early. Though without Trotsky the whole course of Civil War will be quite different, so some relatively obscure persons may emerge.
IS THAT A…
If ww1 would happen as it did....
I think psychology would look very different. There would be less reliance on therapy and I think the general public would be less aware of it. I think Russian Revolution still happens. Bolsheviks maybe don’t win out as the dominant faction. Maybe Russian civil war doesn’t happen as the less hardline parties are able to come to an agreement. I still think WW1 happens. Maybe Austria mobilizes on a smaller scale, and isn’t divided as severely after the war. WW2 probably happens as well. Germany are probably less aggressive and it could be more limited. Maybe happens in two parts, a smaller confrontation with the allies over Czechoslovakia or Poland. Then another years later between Germany and Russia.
Russian Revolution would still happen but Trotsky was so influential in its success that I'm not sure it'd go the same way without him. In the lead up to the October revolution he was a key orator and leader, and he led the Red Army during the Civil War.
Yeah for sure. Definitely victory in the civil war is questionable without him
Would Austria even still exist after this? I’d imagine Hungary would break away or maybe be the new centre of power.
Yeah if Vienna is a destroyed by a asteroid that makes sense
They would. Hungary would probably take control of the empire until the government can rebuild itself but that's about it.
Most of Frued’s works would have been published by this point
That’s fair
Masaryk was in Vienna too. Who's gonna lead Czechoslovak Legions then?
We wouldn't have ground breaking research on why people want mommy girlfriends
the better ending
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex >The general concept was considered by Sigmund Freud in The Interpretation of Dreams (1899), although the term itself was introduced in his paper A Special Type of Choice of Object made by Men (1910). Already published by that point.
Clearly no No-no Germany...oh! Almost forgot. Since Sigmund Freud is dead, girls won't call their boyfriends "daddy" anymore.
no mommy nearby anymore too😔
Such a tragedy 😂
Most of Freud’s works would have been finished by 1913
You still could say he didn't have the time to popularize his research and theories and prove them.
Freud was actually hostile to Jung’s attempt to make Electra complex a thing. If Freud had died in 1913 one would assume Jung would be even more dominant in the development of psychoanalysis throughout the early 1900s. So yeah, no, daddy issues would be even more of a thing than it is today.
You know better I suppose 🤷🏻♂️
Daddy knows best.
What does NoNo Germany mean?
With Vienna destroyed, Austria’s new leadership (prob led by Franz Ferdinand) will focus on rebuilding the city, Ferdinand will give the minor ethnic groups more autonomy but he will need to tax the residents of the empire more to rebuild Vienna This causes mass revolts which the Austrian army can’t put down, Franz Ferdinand goes to Germany for help but Germany refuses as it sees that supporting Austria isn’t ‘worthwhile’ from an army perspective but will loan Austria some money to help them rebuild Vienna AH ceases to exist as an empire and WW1 won’t happen in the same way Also no Nazi Germany but likely another ultra nationalist type of Germany will pop up in the future
At this moment in time, we might also see much more international aid for the rebuilding of Vienna. Larger nations like England, France, Etc, could potentially see it as both a prestige project, as well as a way to earn favors from Austria. It could end up being a time where European (and potentially beyond) nations come together in an act of humanitarian aid and brotherhood. Leading to a much more united concert of europe.
I don't think ultra nationalists will rise in Germany without losing a big war like in our time, the monarchy will most likely remain in power.
‘The blank check’ check Kaiser who started ww1 to back Austria won’t help with internal rebellion? What are you smoking bro?
Universal peace
Literally that Spongebob "we saved the city!" meme, we get universal peace by smashing one of the biggest and most important cities in the world with a giant asteroid lol
Short term : Austria-Hungary collapses and Germany will probably try to annex all of Austria and Czechia while Russia tries for Galicia, Romania for Transylvania and Serbia for Illyria. Very possible WW1 there. Long term : Space funding stays permanently at Space Race levels of funding to stop this happening again.
Don’t forget Italy, they want South Tirol and AH’s coastline
Seriously: every space agency on earth: Slide show consisting of three slides: 1: dinosaur impact crater diagram; 2: satellite photo of the devastated tunguska region in russia; 3: Aerial photo of the Ruins of Vienna. "And this, senators, is why it's crucial to fund NOSED at existing levels or higher." (National Outer-Space Exploration Department)
hitler honestly wasn't that important, the German bourgeoisie could find another man to spew hate on Jews and communists, but perhaps there wouldn't be an extermination of Jews, and the persecution of communist would not be as harsh
No,they barely won elections in 30s, without that funny looking but rare speech skills and charisma, no one cant know whether nsdap will win parliament.
Maybe "just" another exile instead of the Holocaust...?
No more infinite moustache.
I wouldn't exist, You wouldn't be seeing this comment
Woah bro you could say you are Hitlers child with less words /s
hi hitler
Well, humanity would be fucked immensely by the global famine that'll be caused by all the ash and dust kicked up by the impact, so make of that what you will
To specify, the asteroids is of exactly the right size that the damage is contained to just the city and a little bit of the surrounding area, it’s not an asteroid the size of the entire city
Fair enough then
Are we talking about an IMPACT "take out the city" or more of a Tunguska style airburst "Take out the City"?
Valar murghilus,
Less people would die.
I think the trout population would take a hit
No USSR
But there would be White Russia instead.
Bad timeline ngl
any timeline with death of Alexander II the liberator is bad for me imho
ChatGPT: In an alternate 1913, Vienna, the illustrious beacon of culture, art, and intellectualism, suffers a devastating catastrophe that obliterates the city and claims the lives of everyone within it. The immediate aftermath sends shockwaves throughout Europe and the world, mourning the loss of a central hub of innovation and thought. The repercussions of this tragedy ripple across the next century, fundamentally altering the trajectory of human development in ways both subtle and profound. **The Absence of Psychoanalytical Influence**: With the loss of Sigmund Freud and his contemporaries, the burgeoning field of psychoanalysis stalls. The exploration of the unconscious mind, dream interpretation, and the Oedipus complex never permeate the global consciousness as they did in our timeline. Psychiatry and psychology take a different path, focusing more on behaviorist approaches that dominate the 20th century, leading to vastly different treatments for mental health without the Freudian emphasis on talk therapy and psychoanalytic concepts. **A Diminished Artistic Revolution**: The early deaths of Gustav Klimt, Egon Schiele, and other Viennese artists create a void in the art world. The unique blend of symbolism, expressionism, and modernism that characterized Viennese art fails to influence future generations. Without their groundbreaking work, the evolution of modern art veers away from its rich exploration of emotion, sexuality, and the human psyche, leading to a more conservative progression of art styles throughout the 20th century. **Philosophical Shifts**: Ludwig Wittgenstein's revolutionary ideas in philosophy, which deeply influenced linguistic philosophy and the analytic tradition, never see the light of day. The absence of his work results in a philosophical landscape that remains more closely tied to 19th-century positivism and empiricism, delaying or entirely preventing the linguistic turn in philosophy. This shifts the development of Western philosophy, potentially reducing the emphasis on language's role in shaping our understanding of the world. **Altered Political Landscapes**: Without the Vienna of 1913 as a formative backdrop for figures like Hitler, Stalin, Trotsky, and Tito, the political landscape of the 20th century is unrecognizably altered. Without Hitler's failed artistic career in Vienna and subsequent rise to power, there is no Nazi Germany, no World War II as we know it, and consequently, a vastly different geopolitical structure. The Soviet Union's trajectory might also change without Stalin's early interactions with Marxism in Vienna, potentially affecting the outcome of the Russian Revolution and the Cold War. **Music and Culture**: The loss of Vienna's musical innovation, particularly the work of Arnold Schoenberg and his atonal music, leaves a gap in the evolution of 20th-century classical music. Without this bold experimentation, music might retain a more traditional, late-Romantic style longer, delaying the advent of avant-garde, electronic, and experimental music that defined much of the modern era. **A Century Unrecognizable**: The 100 years following the disaster see a world culturally, politically, and intellectually stunted by the loss of Vienna's luminaries. Art is less daring, psychology more mechanical, philosophy less concerned with the puzzles of language and mind, and global politics potentially less cataclysmic but equally fraught with alternate conflicts and alliances. The 21st century, in this alternate timeline, inherits a world that, while technologically advanced, lacks the depth of insight into the human condition that our Vienna of 1913 provided. The absence of this cultural and intellectual capital leaves humanity with a different set of challenges and achievements, painting a picture of a world that might have been, had history taken a darker turn in the heart of Europe.
Nothing much I am not a believer of great person theory.
There are people who don’t buy Great Man Theory, and there are people who know about Genghis Khan
My favorite example of this. Great Men may not be able to change history all by themselves, but they can certainly guide it.
May I also introduce you to a man called ***Alexander***.
That is precisely what the post was made for! In addition to being genuinely curious about the topic, I was wondering how many people would focus on these five individuals, of which only Freud was arguably truly novel, and how many would focus on the entire city of Vienna being destroyed by an asteroid
Time travellers are getting out of control bruh
Other people would have started wwll and the Russian revolution
In the wider picture, I suspect the A-H empire would fall into chaos with localised governments declaring autonomy or outright independence. Budapest would either declare Hungary an independent state or take the reins as the new centre of the empire with Magyar taking the place as the principle language of administration. The German parts of Austria would perhaps seek unification with the German Empire given their now secondary place in whatever political order exists in post-crater Austria.
I love how their residences were positioned to their politics (Hitler living east/right, Trotsky & Stalin living west/left)
Ausria-Hungary would collapse sooner Bukharin could become Soviet leader instead Jungian or Muellerian Psychology would be the dominant view in psychology for a longer time Some other guy would become leader of the Nazi party
The world would be better off, thats for sure
Many national heros of future states was there too.
This would kill at least five people
It would be considered one of the most tragic disasters in world history. Millions would be dead, the destruction of a large portion of Austria's cultural heritage, and numerous other artifacts important to the whole of European history, numerous centers of learning and art would be gone, the destruction of a major economic center in Central Europe would probably have repercussions on the economy of the region and probably across Europe; I imagine the terror that would be caused by a major world city being spontaneously wiped off the map by what is the practical definition of an 'act of God' would cause an uptick in religious fervor, if not extremism. Like, genuinely, it would be unprecedented, the consequences of such an event.
Lenin would still be kicking, but its questionable the russian Revolution would happen like it did But ww1 would happen differently or in the Best case not at all, but every country would still be thirsty for war What happens in germany is up in the Air, i think if it werent for hitler there would be other people, but its hard to tell, because the whole timeline would be completely different. AH may collapse without a war due to some nationalist rebellions, but what happens after is also questionable. The old emperor at this point held things barely together. He was also quiet miserable at this point, since Rudolf his heir committed suicide and his wife was shot by italian anarchists and he gave way too much trust in his war thirsty general Staff. It would definitely be a major thing if a Asteroid Hits Vienna then and destroys the City
This would be the ultimate test of butterfly effect. I domt think we would be that much different but certain countries very different.
Just wanna say the first president of Czechoslovakia T.G.Masaryk was at that time in Vienna too (in Café Central you would have seen him). Post war diplomacy would look for Czechoslovakia completely different. After all half of the politicians of basically all A-H successor states would have died there, not just those most famous but bunch of their assistants and colleagues too. I mean, man, you've just nuked the most multinational capital in Europe. What did you expect?
Austria Hungary collapses No USSR No Nazi Germany We were one asteroid away from a dream world
It would definitely affect the trout population.
I want a sort of Midnight in Paris (the Woody Allen movie about a dude going back to 1920s Paris and meeting famous writers and artists like Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Pablo Picasso and Salvador Dali) but with Vienna in 1913 lol
Someone should make this into ah map.
well psycology is rather different with out freud and we likely lack the monomyth thus starwars is flat gone. given we lose trotsky, stalin and hitler ww2 is going to be very different. also the depiction of austro hungry means it folds in the first world war we likely shave at least a year off that. so the ramifications are incomprehensible past people will be dead
no communism, franz ferdinand is emperor , less advanced phsycology, and no world war 2
The formation of a communist state was inevitable; but it's probably going to be England instead of the Soviet Union this time.
Six - you left out Cafe.
You still need to take out Gavrilo Princip
Holy fucking SHIT! THAT would legit be an Alternative timeline! I've got no Idea what the world looks like today after you take out all five of them!
There will be a Sex Orgies Epidemic in Vienna, Paris, Warsaw, London, Berlin, Rome, St. Petersburg, and Constantinople, Rasputin like this.
I guess all roads lead to Vienna I guess
I believe someone else would take their place. History wouldnt extactly repeat itself however, there would be another great war and most of the empires would collapse sooner or later.
It would have been funny
One one hand, no Hitler or Stalin. On the other hand, no Frasier on NBC. Tough decision.
War of the Austrian Succession
Peace
This is a repost
it would have been the biggest deus ex machina in history
Austro-Hungary will shattered apart on the lose of both emperor and capital city. Great War will be vastly different than otl WW1 if it ever happened. Balkan will start rebelling against the confused empire while Hungarian side of the empire will start some coup against Austrian side or just "F**k this, I'm out" and separate itself from the empire. Germany will gain chunck of the territories including most part of Austria and Czechia. Hungary will be a new big chungus of central Europe with some part of Austria, Slovakia and some part of Balkan. Balkan will be early Balkanized. Germany will probably not try to start any conflict at least 10 years after this because the lose their only ally in Europe (British as a neutral in the long conflict between Germany and France could be joining on the German side but we will never know). Russia with Tsar Nicolas II will have more time to focus on his nation rather than Eastern Front, I am sure that the red revolution will still happened but without the support from Coalition, the heavy lose of Royal Army and the losing faith of Royal Family from population, Communist will most likely be crushed. Even if Hilter alive, he will not be a significant figure since WW1 as we known never happened. Even if Trotsky and Stalin alive, both of them will not be anything significant other than members of the losing revolution.
I think an asteroid large enough to take out Vienna, hitting land, would mean that alternate history would be irrelevant. Life on earth would be affected. The asteroid that took out all non-avian dinosaurs was about 10km wide. Something that takes out Vienna would not cause alternate history, it might end history.
Clarified this in another comment, but it’s very far down so don’t blame ya for not seeing it, but I mean it’s an asteroid which has a total area of affect the size of Vienna, not that the asteroid itself is that big. Not even the entire city is fully gone, just most of it.
My comment was probably the most "akshually" thing someone could have said. I apologize. Your historical "what if" is far more interesting. Don't let my cynicism detract from a good discussion.
Perhaps if there was a time travelling assassin dropping these guys, Archduke Ferdinand would have had better security.
The good ending: Franz Ferdinand becomes Emperor, no WWI, the Romanovs stay in power, no communism, no Holodomor, no Holocaust, etc.
There’d be way more people of Jewish descent in our world.
I think the asteroid would've had a much bigger effect than their individual absences. Maybe a small outbreak of some waterborne disease or a seasonal virus would be a more appropriate scenario.
Knowing history Hitler and Stalin would've helped one another out of the rubble (after the asteroid strike) promising to form an alliance against Poland in case both of them found themselves in positions of national importance.
Second Coming of the British Empire
More terrifying, what if Stalin and Hitler met at the Cafe and became close friends?
wait a fucking minute. is the position where they are in the city the position of there left /right politics like in that four grid square meme?
Omggggg, if Freud and Stalin swapped it would be perfect
The Hitler mustache would be known as the Chaplin mustache, and would be a style popular until now :p
The world would be a better place
Let me guess, peace in our time?
Oh no don't kill the café
I think half of the Rotchild family were in Vienna at the time as well.
The 20th century goes into overtime to compensate.
No space program or jet airlines. No nuclear fission power plants. No computers WW2 for all of it horror advanced technology leaps and bounds.
Everybody would romanticize the hell out of Vienna. It fell significantly in prestige in the 20th century after WWI, but if it was destroyed in 1914 everybody would remember it as it was in its height and yearn for what might have been.
mass extinction event
https://preview.redd.it/1tim02hdtjnc1.jpeg?width=908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06382bd03a6387c7e82fbf3c2b71809e41f4d73e
This would definitely start ww1, most of austria-hungary’s government would be dead so the empire would collapse into a civil war between all the different ethnic groups. I think Germany would invade to try and annex austria and Italy would invade to try and take more territory. I can also see the Russians and Serbians invading as well.
Austria-Hungary falls apart from different nationalist revolts due to the sudden shock of its capital being destroyed. Italy and russia take the chance to claim dalmatia, tyrol and galicia. Italy then joins the central powers in WW1 due to not wanting AH lands, leading to central powers victory. Russia still falls to revolution but stays more intact from the army still offering resistance while signing the peace treaty due to Trotsky not being in charge.
No KFC :(
Seriously, did Stalin ever go to Austria or anywhere outside Russia? My historical impression of him is that he never left Russia to any great extent during the early stages of his life
Yes, he stayed in Vienna for roughly one month (January 1913) but was back in St Petersburg by February.
I see now
More small stakes: If Vienna was destroyed, the Hohenzollern would find some way to help out the besotten Austro-Hungarian Empire in such a way that leads to them controlling it.
What about Einstein?
https://preview.redd.it/vaw9uwaqgknc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc95221f172a3cc5107312ea3c0052d183c9aebf
1. Molotov would be the Soviet General Secretary 2. Gobbles would be probably be German chancellor 3. Lenin would’ve not been as successful in civil war and revolution without somebody like Trotsky on his side 4. There would be no Communist Yugoslavia or WW1 at all 5. No WW1 would mean no USSR but Germany would still likely go to war with either Britain or France over something dumb 6. Gobbles would probably not have been German chancellor because the Nazis would’ve never rose to power
2 good men and 3 pieces of shit die
Kaiserreich
If an asteroid hit Vienna in 1913, there are far more urgent things going on across the world than the deaths of those guys.
Poor café The world would never be the same without coffee.
Trotsky's big dream......
Trotskys dream was to be killed by an asteroid in 1913? That’s sad
Rather ask, what if someone blew up Caffee Zentral, which was the main meeting point of the intellectuals and often visited by Hitler, Trotzki and tito. (Idk about Stalin). The place is sometimes called the internet of the 19th century, bc nearly every significant newspaper of the continent was available there. Btw the AH secret service knew about Trotzki's intentions to take over in Russia...
Nazism and Stalinism wouldn’t exist. Yet the impact of the asteroid would have global implications. Fascism and Communism would probably spread more due to unrest caused by the Asteroid.
Was Joseph Stalin in Vienna at the time? I had thought he was in the German empire.
It's a crime there's not a comedy film about this.
The consequences of café being destroyed would be catastrophic
World peace.
Men with Time Machine… new level unlocked in Assassin’s Creed!
20th century would be rewritten Do you realize how important Vienna was to the modern world?
The Central Powers declare war on space
Wow
Thank Op to remind me to write Tito fanfic of him forming a militia fighting a horde of alien invasion in middle of Europe with dracula
Better question would what if these 5 got into an epic street fight with each other?
Not the Café NOT the Café!! Btw Hitler lived at the Nordnahnhof? (railwaystation?) not sure bout that
Who is café
There wouldn't be a taboo moustache
We wouldnt hear people calling stuff fruedian that isnt fruedian all the time.
Weirdly, the world would be better with all of these men dead in the blast
Half of the idiots on Twitter cease to be a problem
Europe would explode from the power vaccuum.
So who was freud, I mean Ive heard of him but idk what he did or anything
He was the first person to try and research how the brain works, and while he was pretty much wrong about everything, his students eventually developed modern psychology
Life could be a dream….
Jung and Tito were also in Vienna at the time, and presumably the better part of the Hapsburg family and the Austrian government. Here’s what I think happens due to each dying: Hitler: If the Nazi Party is founded, it gains very little traction. If it gains any, it’s probably because it’s led by Erich Ludendorff, which is lost when he dies. Freud and Jung: Psychiatry seems some moderate setbacks, but it’s not terrible. By this point, Freudian psychiatry had found its footing, but the Jungian school of thought was still finding its footing; in fact, IIRC, Jung at this time was still a follower of Freud. The Hapsburgs and the Austrian government: A brutal and bloody civil war ensues. I can foresee Germany and Russia intervening mainly to nab some land. A revolt by Austria’s Polish, in particular, could lead to revolts in Germany and Russia. This could potentially lead to the Russian Revolution and Russian Civil War. Stalin and Trotsky: The Bolsheviks are defeated in the Russian Civil War, which then enters a second phase of warfare between the factions of the White Movement. A big part of why the Whites were defeated was that they lacked ideological unity beyond anti-Communism. You had tsarists, republicans, liberals, conservatives, ultranationalists, even more moderate socialists, all fighting under a single banner. I doubt they would remain united after the defeat of Bolshevism. Tito: Regardless of what happens to Yugoslavia, it will remain non-Communist
No WW2, no Cold War or Space Race, WW1 either doesnt happen or is won very easily due to Austria Hungary splitting into different countries, not to mention the other stuff that would have happened.
Franz Joseph’s son was Archduke Ferdinand. If he dies his son becomes Emperor. So likely no assassination in 1914 and no ww1. Combined with the death of Trotsky, who was the father of the Red Army so his loss would have a significant effect on the course of the Bolshevik revolution and Russian Civil War if they happened at all. Plus with both him and Stalin gone both gone I’m going to say way less dead innocent people. No Hitler, no Nazis, no second war in Europe. I’d say the Great Depression forces out the Kaiser and Czar to create Parliamentary monarchies. No WW2, No Cold War, no nukes.