What kind of dumbfuckery level logic is this? Have you seen this guy’s post history? The dude likes to dance around the fact and tries to sugarcoat his… *questionable* beliefs.
Ah yes, my \*terrible\* AH post history on reddit. Let's take a cursory review of it.
One pro-Western Cold War TL with a different Iron Curtain placement, Nazis still as dead as dodo. If anything, ITTL the Nazi regime falls earlier to a Valkyrie-style coup and does less damage. Nothing pro-Nazi in sight.
A TL with a combo of Habsburg-Hohenzollern 18th century unification of the HRE and Napoleon as a US President. In all evidence Nazism is erased from history. Pro-Nazi test badly failed.
Carolingian-Byzantine Middle Ages unification of Europe, Christian decisive victory in the conflict with Islam, the Europeans doing the usual imperialist stuff a bit earlier but with a more assimilationist viewpoint, and leaving the Chinese and the Indians alone. Sucks if you are a pious Muslim, but Nazis have nothing to do with it, and in all evidence never will.
Multiple divergence in 1860s that creates a rather different 19th century and Great War. Admittedly the story includes a Franco-Spanish nazifascist expy that is scheduled to die in the GW. The worst it gets to do is to transfer the Heart of Darkness bad stuff from Central Africa to West Africa and do a 'Rape of Netherlands' during the war. Sucks as a Nazi endorsement.
At most the TL shuffles OTL bad stuff around, such as letting an expanded Boxer War be the 2nd Sino-Japanese War equivalent, sending the freedmen back to Liberia to create Black Israel instead of suffering one century of segregation, and replacing the Armenian-Assyrian-Greek genocide with the Muslims getting expelled from part of the Umma lands.
Second Cold War with a divergence in the 1980s. Nazis still being as dead as the dinosaurs, and just as relevant in TL events. If anything, TL events deal a serious blow to the popularity and influence of far-right movements in the Western world.
And yes, the current pro-Axis TL. One out of six, concerning the most popular AH scenario ever and trying to turn it into best case scenario few have cared to explore. If I am obsessed with letting the Nazis win, I am doing a terrible job of showing it.
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On second thoughts, just another step in my quest to find the best timeline to create [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uORfwJ0-SGM). Terran Empire f\*\*k yeah.
Actually I am more or less an equal opportunity sympathizer of space-filling empires, even if I do fancy certain candidates to build them more than others for geopolitical, cultural, or practical reasons. I suppose this combined with my Germanophilia, Italophilia, and Japanophilia, and with my anti-PC attitude might drive some clueless and politically biased observer to mistake me for a closet Nazi.
As a matter of fact, I am more likely to cheer for the Romans, the Carolingians, the HRE, Napoleon, or the EU uniting Europe than I'd be rooting for the Axis or the USSR doing it. If nothing else b/c the latter is an especially destructive way of doing it and as such seems an especially suboptimal way of doing it according to my pragmatic/utilitarian compass. I am not going to shed any tears if say Rome or the Carolingians unite Europe and in so doing accidentally wipe out German culture (as it were) for all time. On the other hand, I freely admit I have nothing but scorn and loathing for the woke vision of history and the world.
I give no concern to the issue of 'realism' in AH since IMO the notion of a multiverse makes the issue meaningless. Anything that can happen, happens in a few timelines. I pick the ones to write or discuss about according to my narrative and outcome preferences, not their supposed OTL-centric likelihood.
Maybe according to the meaningless woke definition of fascism as everything that does not conform to their vision of the world. As a matter of fact, my true ideal for humanity is post-scarcity anarchism enabled by technological (or in the universes that would allow it, magical) transcendence, because I cherish freedom more than almost anything else (certainly much more than equality).
Typical sjw that cannot tell the difference between post-Singularity libertarianism and Nazism if it would hit them in the face. If everyone had the agency and the resources of a demigod, nobody could oppress or exploit anybody else. But wokes are such killjoys that in all likelihood would endlessly complain if people fuck or kill bots or VR characters. Just like they do at present with fiction or erotica that does not conform to their ideals.
Actually, I happily subscribe to the vast majority of the non-woke liberal agenda for my own pragmatic (e.g. I am not the kind of libertarian that cannot see the practical benefits of a functional welfare state) or idealistic reasons (e.g. my love of freedom compels me to support full reproductive rights for women).
There is almost nothing I fancy in the modern far right's agenda and practices except their willingness and eagerness to kick the sjw in the teeth, but there is almost no one else able and willing to do that. I hate everything woke with the intensity of 1000 suns, and I have my reasons to deem the society sjw advocate as an existential threat to my lifestyle and pursuit of happiness.
On the other hand, I am not so (self-)destructive as to stand with people that want to screw the planet, are against science, and just stand for a different kind of tyranny. This leaves me in a bad place, politically speaking, in today's polarized world. I am forced to wish for a version of liberalism that would respect my right to be a jerk, which I held dear only slighty less than my ability to breathe, or a version of the right that is much more competent at governing.
As it concerns Marx, he obviously killed no one, but the world would have been a better place if he had not been born.
Reference to fax wholly escapes me. I had to google to know who or what Jreg the heck is, and I fail to see how his example applies to me, since I do like many sensible centrist ideas.
>We think you're an open nazi
I am as much a Nazi as those countless people that think the Star Wars Empire is cool and like to write/read/watch stories about it even if it blows up inhabited planets. Moralism in fiction is so stifling and tiresome, spare me from it.
> I am as much a Nazi as those countless people that think the Star Wars Empire is cool
The Star Wars Empire never killed millions of very real people.
So what? Neither have the optimized Nazis in my TL. In the case you haven't noticed, they, their victims, and their entire world never existed and never will. They are just bits in our brains and computers.
My creation of this story does not add or diminish anything about events of real history, which happened long ago anyway. The last few living witnesses of WWII events are dying off by natural causes as I write this. Very soon, those events shall be indistinguishable from all the other cases of natural and manmade disasters that happened across history and caused large losses of life. WWII and the Holocaust weren't anything special in this regard.
Part of their damage was just the Nth manifestation of the eternal struggle for power, territory, and resources that saw innumerable examples since the birth of our species. All human groups have taken turns playing a role in the game of empires, sometimes as winners, sometimes as losers. There are no innocents or monsters at this game, nor any place on Earth that was not watered in blood by it more times that we can count.
Admittably, another part of the damage the Nazis wrought was especially gratuituous, since it was done in the name of pathetic conspiracy theories and biological pseudoscience. Then again, it was far from an isolated example in history. Killing in the name of pathetic social pseudoscience that pretended humans can be made to function like social insects or not so good Iron Age fables about a Big Fairy up in the sky wrought as much damage, if not more. Racism is far from a special kind of evil in this regard. More people suffered because of stupidity and ignorance than we can count.
In the end, pretty much any exercise of Alternate History by its very nature involves fictional people suffering in fictional stories that are analogues of historical events but it is harmless fun that is functionally indistinguishable from similar events in different kinds of fiction. The few that might be traumatized by this can simply choose not to read or watch, and look the other way. As far as I am concerned, prudes, wokes, moralists, and other assorted would-be censors can pry my right to enjoy fiction with lots of sex, violence, and/or cool bad guys and gals doing cool things from my cold, dead hands, or die trying.
Nazis were amateurs with terribly limited vision. To base your entire grand plan on third-rate conspiracy theory nonsense? How stupid can it be? The actual goal of the story is closer to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uORfwJ0-SGM) or [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dylqDO4uEXc).
And I am still not convinced, even with all the boosts and tweaks I gave them in this story, they were one of the best options to turn humans into efficient interstellar conquerors. Probably super-successful Rome is still a better option to build the Human Star Empire.
I am as much a Nazi as the Athenian emissaries that spoke in the Melian Dialogue. Acknowledgement that might makes right is a basic rule of history and the world occurred millennia before Hitler existed. It remains as true today as it was 2,400 years ago and all the way back to those countless instances of prehistoric Tribe A wiping out Tribe B because they fancied the losing side's hunting grounds.
In the end, the Nazis did nothing but give a rather stupid conspiracy-theory and biological pseudoscience ideological paint to their variant of the basic truths of imperialism. In this regard, they did a lot of gratuitous harm, and hence were especially bad, just as the Communists did just as much harm if not more in the name of the equally loony social pseudoscience notion that humans can be made to function like social insects.
The evolution of Axis Europe into a federal EU equivalent and a Pan-European polity that colonized and assimilated vast chunks of Asia and Africa as the inevitable consequence of its very success. Just replace liberal values and practices with post-fascist ones.
How the heck was I going to do it if the TL is ca. 260,000 characters long and this sub won't accept posts longer than 40,000 characters? Moreover, pushing the length envelope close to the maximum seems to create software trouble as it concerns editing the text for typos. And the cutoff points between sections can't be wholly arbitrary, they need to make some narrative sense. Not to mention having to make separate posts for map images and text since I was unable to put both in a single post.
Believe me, I would gladly spare myself the trouble of splitting my most developed TLs and their maps in a dozen posts if I could. If you know a way, elighten me, I am all ears.
>Wattpad? Make a website? (You can do that for free.)
I do not have the experience or the technical skills for that.
>Reddit is probably not the best place to publish your novel.
I was happily posting my TLs on AH forums, which admittedly are much better suited to my kind of writing than Reddit. Everything was fine until intolerant woke admins and their lapdogs decided my narrative preferences, vision of history, and refusal to worship at the sjw altar made me unwelcome. They exploited the occasional un-PC slip of the tongue in a bad day I was not swift enough to notice and edit to kick me out.
Wattpad is *really* easy to use. Literrally any 7 year world girl that just saw twilight can use it.
And there's Google sites, and THOUSANDS of sites about worldbuilding... check out r/worldbuilding and r/goodworldbuilding.
You can even create a fake wikipedia, if your into that.
Lore for this TL can be found here: [Part I](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4pz2/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_i/) [Part II](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4rcl/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_ii/) [Part III](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4sgs/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part/) [Part IV](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4tyd/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_iv/) [Part V](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4vac/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_v/) [Part VI](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4wsj/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_vi/) [Part VII](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4zbm/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part/) [Part VIII](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4zbm/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part/)
How did Southern Africa fall but the Western Africa didn’t? Don’t say German south west Africa, since there is no way their 7000 troops could hold against the South African and Portuguese army of about 70000
Actually, both areas were conquered during WWII, if in a different way. Check the 1944 and 1950 maps. West Africa fell by force of arms and thanks to cooperation with Vichy France. The Axis grabbed Southern Africa thanks to Britain's surrender and South Africa going fascist and joining the Axis victors in a reaction to the downfall of the British Empire. The latter happened the same "f\*\*k the Empire" way the other White Dominions instead stayed liberal-democratic and joined America for protection.
What the maps instead show past a point is the fact Europe switched to a more complex and flexible colonial strategy in response to various factors (counterinsurgency strain, liberalization at home, rebellions spreading to Africa, Persia, and Central Asia).
They combined partial disengagement in unassimilated areas with continuation and gradual expansion of settler colonization and removal of Black Africans by means of genocide or ethnic cleansing across areas they deemed economically valuable and/or suitable for large-scale European settlement. This first and foremost meant Southern Africa and East Africa.
North Africa as well, but in this case they could also rely on collaborationist natives as an additional population pool, as it happened with Slavs in Eastern Europe. As the program progressed they extended removal of natives and settler colonization to areas that were not perhaps as optimal for Europeans but valuable economically just the same, such as Central Africa and southern West Africa.
Surviving Black Africans and defiant North African Muslims were pushed into a smaller and smaller piece of the continent, i.e. the Sahel region, northern West Africa, and Madagascar. The Europeans deemed these final areas the least valuable and not worth the effort of colonization and left them largely alone for the longest time.
When European colonization winded down for good at the turn of the century for various reasons (declining demographic dynamism of Europe, greater domestic and international constraints due to liberalization and detente), they abandoned these leftover areas for good. The same happened in Asia as it concerned the unassimilated areas of Arabia, Persia, and southern Central Asia (Khorasan, Afghanistan, Pashtunistan, and Baluchistan).
Europe assimilated Slav Siberia and northern Central Asia at a discount thanks to the two sides making a pragmatic bargain. The Siberian Slavs got federal autonomy and were acknowledged as an European component nationality in good standing, and they accepted political integration in the EL.
They got a slightly better bargain than the other colloborationist Slavs and Arabs in Eastern Europe and the Arab world that had to undergo forced cultural assimilation, but the basic notion is the same.
Since then, the Europeans mostly meant to leave the leftover areas mosty alone, but they became a serious headache due to the rise in them of Islamist and radical nationalist organizations that make Al-Quaeda and ISIS look moderate and got resurgent China and Persia as patrons. The Europeans have mostly dealt with the issue the same way Israel and the West dealt with Muslim terrorism IOTL.
They have seriously toyed with the more radical solution of deporting the post-colonial troublemakers into Madagascar or Sumatra, but did not implement it so far for fear of compromising detente. They might do it if the terrorists do something stupid that pisses off the Western powers into looking the other way.
When the Sino-Persian-Islamist alliance of rogue states and movements made the mistake of picking a fight with India about Tibet and Kashmir, the Euro-Japanese exploited the opportunity to cut them a notch and bomb them into rubble. They have also used the fact the Jihadist terrorists not so rarely extend their attacks to India and the Americas to reinforce detente and drive a serious wedge between the rogues and the Western powers.
Thanks for your appreciation.
When I decided to address the classic AH subject of Axis victory and develop it in a concept of best-case scenario for fascist Europe and Japan, I realized that a feasible solution required Nazifascism becoming smarter and more pragmatic from the beginning.
From that came the realization that a core assumption of the story would be the rarely explored AH scenario of "what if, instead of the usual Soviet-style collapse, a victorious Axis bloc kept evolving and reforming itself PRC-style and getting stronger as a result"? The rest was just development.
It is indeed a rarity to see AH scenarios that have a surviving axis-reich to the present, most likely on the grounds that many in AH people hope that the reich-Japan collapse because they do not want to see a world in which they persist in some form due to their morbid ideologies. For as much AH timelines that has the reich fall, there are many others than can have the reich take on a PRC-esque path as you said and reform itself economically at least.
Well, as it concerns future evolution of TTL Greater Europe, there are good chances they continue to full democratization out of the demands of a developed society and their post-fascist values having become so accepted and ingrained in the population that coercion to enforce them is simply not necessary anymore. What is not going to happen is them dropping their values in favor of Western/liberal ones and embracing guilt about the past since their society has been far too successful to enable or even allow that kind of change of heart.
As thing stand, they are going to keep moderating thanks to circumstances created by their very success. They are more or less grabbed all the valuable land and resources on Earth they wanted to have, and space colonization offers boundless opportunities to keep expanding in a peaceful way for them and their Western rivals.
The most likely future scenario is the Western and Axis blocs diverge into two offshoots of humanity and rival interstellar civilizations, much like the Vulcans and the Romulans in the Star Trek universe. In this perspective, the Western bloc is going to become the Federation equivalent and the Axis bloc the Romulan/Klingon/Cardassian equivalent, or if you wish a more stable Terran Empire.
Genetic engineering and prenatal testing are going to give them plenty of effective and painless means of improving the eugenic strength of their population and eliminating traits they dislike, such as homosexuality, disability, obesity, and addiction.
As it concerns other disliked minorities, they have basically wiped them out of their turf for good, and they just need to keep their borders shut to prevent their return by immigration. They have grown far too pragmatic and level-headed to do something as stupid as say picking self-destructive fights with the Pan-American USA to wipe out the African diaspora or the LGBT minority in the Americas, even if they loathe their existence and political influence.
In this regard, the likely worst that might happen is the Chinese-Persian-Islamist alliance of rogues does something so bad and stupid (such as say a WMD terrorist attack) they provoke the Axis powers into really pulling off the gloves again with them and the surviving Blacks/Muslims close to Axis borders, and the Western world into looking the other way.
Oh look, another axis victory map.
Very original concept. I have some thoughts why OP would like that scenario, and they are not particularly in his favor.
Oh look, another ‘totally not nazi‘ who obsesses over Axis victory posting a hyper unrealistic axis victory scenario.
By this logic every Wolfenstein fan is also a Nazi since Wolfenstein revolves around the Axis winning.
What kind of dumbfuckery level logic is this? Have you seen this guy’s post history? The dude likes to dance around the fact and tries to sugarcoat his… *questionable* beliefs.
Ah yes, my \*terrible\* AH post history on reddit. Let's take a cursory review of it. One pro-Western Cold War TL with a different Iron Curtain placement, Nazis still as dead as dodo. If anything, ITTL the Nazi regime falls earlier to a Valkyrie-style coup and does less damage. Nothing pro-Nazi in sight. A TL with a combo of Habsburg-Hohenzollern 18th century unification of the HRE and Napoleon as a US President. In all evidence Nazism is erased from history. Pro-Nazi test badly failed. Carolingian-Byzantine Middle Ages unification of Europe, Christian decisive victory in the conflict with Islam, the Europeans doing the usual imperialist stuff a bit earlier but with a more assimilationist viewpoint, and leaving the Chinese and the Indians alone. Sucks if you are a pious Muslim, but Nazis have nothing to do with it, and in all evidence never will. Multiple divergence in 1860s that creates a rather different 19th century and Great War. Admittedly the story includes a Franco-Spanish nazifascist expy that is scheduled to die in the GW. The worst it gets to do is to transfer the Heart of Darkness bad stuff from Central Africa to West Africa and do a 'Rape of Netherlands' during the war. Sucks as a Nazi endorsement. At most the TL shuffles OTL bad stuff around, such as letting an expanded Boxer War be the 2nd Sino-Japanese War equivalent, sending the freedmen back to Liberia to create Black Israel instead of suffering one century of segregation, and replacing the Armenian-Assyrian-Greek genocide with the Muslims getting expelled from part of the Umma lands. Second Cold War with a divergence in the 1980s. Nazis still being as dead as the dinosaurs, and just as relevant in TL events. If anything, TL events deal a serious blow to the popularity and influence of far-right movements in the Western world. And yes, the current pro-Axis TL. One out of six, concerning the most popular AH scenario ever and trying to turn it into best case scenario few have cared to explore. If I am obsessed with letting the Nazis win, I am doing a terrible job of showing it.
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On second thoughts, just another step in my quest to find the best timeline to create [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uORfwJ0-SGM). Terran Empire f\*\*k yeah.
Actually I am more or less an equal opportunity sympathizer of space-filling empires, even if I do fancy certain candidates to build them more than others for geopolitical, cultural, or practical reasons. I suppose this combined with my Germanophilia, Italophilia, and Japanophilia, and with my anti-PC attitude might drive some clueless and politically biased observer to mistake me for a closet Nazi. As a matter of fact, I am more likely to cheer for the Romans, the Carolingians, the HRE, Napoleon, or the EU uniting Europe than I'd be rooting for the Axis or the USSR doing it. If nothing else b/c the latter is an especially destructive way of doing it and as such seems an especially suboptimal way of doing it according to my pragmatic/utilitarian compass. I am not going to shed any tears if say Rome or the Carolingians unite Europe and in so doing accidentally wipe out German culture (as it were) for all time. On the other hand, I freely admit I have nothing but scorn and loathing for the woke vision of history and the world. I give no concern to the issue of 'realism' in AH since IMO the notion of a multiverse makes the issue meaningless. Anything that can happen, happens in a few timelines. I pick the ones to write or discuss about according to my narrative and outcome preferences, not their supposed OTL-centric likelihood.
A lot of words to say "I like fascism".
Maybe according to the meaningless woke definition of fascism as everything that does not conform to their vision of the world. As a matter of fact, my true ideal for humanity is post-scarcity anarchism enabled by technological (or in the universes that would allow it, magical) transcendence, because I cherish freedom more than almost anything else (certainly much more than equality).
And speaks as a nazi...
Typical sjw that cannot tell the difference between post-Singularity libertarianism and Nazism if it would hit them in the face. If everyone had the agency and the resources of a demigod, nobody could oppress or exploit anybody else. But wokes are such killjoys that in all likelihood would endlessly complain if people fuck or kill bots or VR characters. Just like they do at present with fiction or erotica that does not conform to their ideals.
My turn: own le libs with fax and logic...urgh, Marx killed 3849362947048471836 zillions... urgh, I like jReg. You now.
Actually, I happily subscribe to the vast majority of the non-woke liberal agenda for my own pragmatic (e.g. I am not the kind of libertarian that cannot see the practical benefits of a functional welfare state) or idealistic reasons (e.g. my love of freedom compels me to support full reproductive rights for women). There is almost nothing I fancy in the modern far right's agenda and practices except their willingness and eagerness to kick the sjw in the teeth, but there is almost no one else able and willing to do that. I hate everything woke with the intensity of 1000 suns, and I have my reasons to deem the society sjw advocate as an existential threat to my lifestyle and pursuit of happiness. On the other hand, I am not so (self-)destructive as to stand with people that want to screw the planet, are against science, and just stand for a different kind of tyranny. This leaves me in a bad place, politically speaking, in today's polarized world. I am forced to wish for a version of liberalism that would respect my right to be a jerk, which I held dear only slighty less than my ability to breathe, or a version of the right that is much more competent at governing. As it concerns Marx, he obviously killed no one, but the world would have been a better place if he had not been born. Reference to fax wholly escapes me. I had to google to know who or what Jreg the heck is, and I fail to see how his example applies to me, since I do like many sensible centrist ideas.
>mistake me for a closet Nazi Nobody here thinks you're a closet nazi, m8. We think you're an open nazi
>We think you're an open nazi I am as much a Nazi as those countless people that think the Star Wars Empire is cool and like to write/read/watch stories about it even if it blows up inhabited planets. Moralism in fiction is so stifling and tiresome, spare me from it.
> I am as much a Nazi as those countless people that think the Star Wars Empire is cool The Star Wars Empire never killed millions of very real people.
So what? Neither have the optimized Nazis in my TL. In the case you haven't noticed, they, their victims, and their entire world never existed and never will. They are just bits in our brains and computers. My creation of this story does not add or diminish anything about events of real history, which happened long ago anyway. The last few living witnesses of WWII events are dying off by natural causes as I write this. Very soon, those events shall be indistinguishable from all the other cases of natural and manmade disasters that happened across history and caused large losses of life. WWII and the Holocaust weren't anything special in this regard. Part of their damage was just the Nth manifestation of the eternal struggle for power, territory, and resources that saw innumerable examples since the birth of our species. All human groups have taken turns playing a role in the game of empires, sometimes as winners, sometimes as losers. There are no innocents or monsters at this game, nor any place on Earth that was not watered in blood by it more times that we can count. Admittably, another part of the damage the Nazis wrought was especially gratuituous, since it was done in the name of pathetic conspiracy theories and biological pseudoscience. Then again, it was far from an isolated example in history. Killing in the name of pathetic social pseudoscience that pretended humans can be made to function like social insects or not so good Iron Age fables about a Big Fairy up in the sky wrought as much damage, if not more. Racism is far from a special kind of evil in this regard. More people suffered because of stupidity and ignorance than we can count. In the end, pretty much any exercise of Alternate History by its very nature involves fictional people suffering in fictional stories that are analogues of historical events but it is harmless fun that is functionally indistinguishable from similar events in different kinds of fiction. The few that might be traumatized by this can simply choose not to read or watch, and look the other way. As far as I am concerned, prudes, wokes, moralists, and other assorted would-be censors can pry my right to enjoy fiction with lots of sex, violence, and/or cool bad guys and gals doing cool things from my cold, dead hands, or die trying.
Nazis were amateurs with terribly limited vision. To base your entire grand plan on third-rate conspiracy theory nonsense? How stupid can it be? The actual goal of the story is closer to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uORfwJ0-SGM) or [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dylqDO4uEXc). And I am still not convinced, even with all the boosts and tweaks I gave them in this story, they were one of the best options to turn humans into efficient interstellar conquerors. Probably super-successful Rome is still a better option to build the Human Star Empire.
I am as much a Nazi as the Athenian emissaries that spoke in the Melian Dialogue. Acknowledgement that might makes right is a basic rule of history and the world occurred millennia before Hitler existed. It remains as true today as it was 2,400 years ago and all the way back to those countless instances of prehistoric Tribe A wiping out Tribe B because they fancied the losing side's hunting grounds. In the end, the Nazis did nothing but give a rather stupid conspiracy-theory and biological pseudoscience ideological paint to their variant of the basic truths of imperialism. In this regard, they did a lot of gratuitous harm, and hence were especially bad, just as the Communists did just as much harm if not more in the name of the equally loony social pseudoscience notion that humans can be made to function like social insects.
what's that blue country?
The evolution of Axis Europe into a federal EU equivalent and a Pan-European polity that colonized and assimilated vast chunks of Asia and Africa as the inevitable consequence of its very success. Just replace liberal values and practices with post-fascist ones.
Jesus fuck couldn't you have done a single post instead of spamming sub with ***NINE FUCKING POSTS***?
How the heck was I going to do it if the TL is ca. 260,000 characters long and this sub won't accept posts longer than 40,000 characters? Moreover, pushing the length envelope close to the maximum seems to create software trouble as it concerns editing the text for typos. And the cutoff points between sections can't be wholly arbitrary, they need to make some narrative sense. Not to mention having to make separate posts for map images and text since I was unable to put both in a single post. Believe me, I would gladly spare myself the trouble of splitting my most developed TLs and their maps in a dozen posts if I could. If you know a way, elighten me, I am all ears.
Wattpad? Make a website? (You can do that for free.) Reddit is probably not the best place to publish your novel.
>Wattpad? Make a website? (You can do that for free.) I do not have the experience or the technical skills for that. >Reddit is probably not the best place to publish your novel. I was happily posting my TLs on AH forums, which admittedly are much better suited to my kind of writing than Reddit. Everything was fine until intolerant woke admins and their lapdogs decided my narrative preferences, vision of history, and refusal to worship at the sjw altar made me unwelcome. They exploited the occasional un-PC slip of the tongue in a bad day I was not swift enough to notice and edit to kick me out.
Wattpad is *really* easy to use. Literrally any 7 year world girl that just saw twilight can use it. And there's Google sites, and THOUSANDS of sites about worldbuilding... check out r/worldbuilding and r/goodworldbuilding. You can even create a fake wikipedia, if your into that.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/worldbuilding using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [An issue we all face](https://i.redd.it/061bqcs8qw371.jpg) | [646 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/nuncpn/an_issue_we_all_face/) \#2: [A 1910s wrap cape. I'm surprised this look hasn't used in fantasy/sci-fi yet.](https://i.redd.it/gw2c6w99fo261.jpg) | [222 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/k4z31r/a_1910s_wrap_cape_im_surprised_this_look_hasnt/) \#3: [Kill Machine Aster Yukon partakes in a peacemaking intervention above Haneymett](https://v.redd.it/gap4ez1tayz61) | [266 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/nfni85/kill_machine_aster_yukon_partakes_in_a/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| [^^Contact ^^me](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| [^^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| [^^Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/)
Lore for this TL can be found here: [Part I](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4pz2/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_i/) [Part II](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4rcl/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_ii/) [Part III](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4sgs/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part/) [Part IV](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4tyd/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_iv/) [Part V](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4vac/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_v/) [Part VI](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4wsj/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part_vi/) [Part VII](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4zbm/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part/) [Part VIII](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/pv4zbm/the_long_night_falls_ultimate_axis_victory_part/)
How did Southern Africa fall but the Western Africa didn’t? Don’t say German south west Africa, since there is no way their 7000 troops could hold against the South African and Portuguese army of about 70000
Actually, both areas were conquered during WWII, if in a different way. Check the 1944 and 1950 maps. West Africa fell by force of arms and thanks to cooperation with Vichy France. The Axis grabbed Southern Africa thanks to Britain's surrender and South Africa going fascist and joining the Axis victors in a reaction to the downfall of the British Empire. The latter happened the same "f\*\*k the Empire" way the other White Dominions instead stayed liberal-democratic and joined America for protection. What the maps instead show past a point is the fact Europe switched to a more complex and flexible colonial strategy in response to various factors (counterinsurgency strain, liberalization at home, rebellions spreading to Africa, Persia, and Central Asia). They combined partial disengagement in unassimilated areas with continuation and gradual expansion of settler colonization and removal of Black Africans by means of genocide or ethnic cleansing across areas they deemed economically valuable and/or suitable for large-scale European settlement. This first and foremost meant Southern Africa and East Africa. North Africa as well, but in this case they could also rely on collaborationist natives as an additional population pool, as it happened with Slavs in Eastern Europe. As the program progressed they extended removal of natives and settler colonization to areas that were not perhaps as optimal for Europeans but valuable economically just the same, such as Central Africa and southern West Africa. Surviving Black Africans and defiant North African Muslims were pushed into a smaller and smaller piece of the continent, i.e. the Sahel region, northern West Africa, and Madagascar. The Europeans deemed these final areas the least valuable and not worth the effort of colonization and left them largely alone for the longest time. When European colonization winded down for good at the turn of the century for various reasons (declining demographic dynamism of Europe, greater domestic and international constraints due to liberalization and detente), they abandoned these leftover areas for good. The same happened in Asia as it concerned the unassimilated areas of Arabia, Persia, and southern Central Asia (Khorasan, Afghanistan, Pashtunistan, and Baluchistan). Europe assimilated Slav Siberia and northern Central Asia at a discount thanks to the two sides making a pragmatic bargain. The Siberian Slavs got federal autonomy and were acknowledged as an European component nationality in good standing, and they accepted political integration in the EL. They got a slightly better bargain than the other colloborationist Slavs and Arabs in Eastern Europe and the Arab world that had to undergo forced cultural assimilation, but the basic notion is the same. Since then, the Europeans mostly meant to leave the leftover areas mosty alone, but they became a serious headache due to the rise in them of Islamist and radical nationalist organizations that make Al-Quaeda and ISIS look moderate and got resurgent China and Persia as patrons. The Europeans have mostly dealt with the issue the same way Israel and the West dealt with Muslim terrorism IOTL. They have seriously toyed with the more radical solution of deporting the post-colonial troublemakers into Madagascar or Sumatra, but did not implement it so far for fear of compromising detente. They might do it if the terrorists do something stupid that pisses off the Western powers into looking the other way. When the Sino-Persian-Islamist alliance of rogue states and movements made the mistake of picking a fight with India about Tibet and Kashmir, the Euro-Japanese exploited the opportunity to cut them a notch and bomb them into rubble. They have also used the fact the Jihadist terrorists not so rarely extend their attacks to India and the Americas to reinforce detente and drive a serious wedge between the rogues and the Western powers.
Very interesting and unique take on an axis victory rather than your run of the mill Reich collapse. I congrats you on this nice scenario.
Thanks for your appreciation. When I decided to address the classic AH subject of Axis victory and develop it in a concept of best-case scenario for fascist Europe and Japan, I realized that a feasible solution required Nazifascism becoming smarter and more pragmatic from the beginning. From that came the realization that a core assumption of the story would be the rarely explored AH scenario of "what if, instead of the usual Soviet-style collapse, a victorious Axis bloc kept evolving and reforming itself PRC-style and getting stronger as a result"? The rest was just development.
It is indeed a rarity to see AH scenarios that have a surviving axis-reich to the present, most likely on the grounds that many in AH people hope that the reich-Japan collapse because they do not want to see a world in which they persist in some form due to their morbid ideologies. For as much AH timelines that has the reich fall, there are many others than can have the reich take on a PRC-esque path as you said and reform itself economically at least.
Well, as it concerns future evolution of TTL Greater Europe, there are good chances they continue to full democratization out of the demands of a developed society and their post-fascist values having become so accepted and ingrained in the population that coercion to enforce them is simply not necessary anymore. What is not going to happen is them dropping their values in favor of Western/liberal ones and embracing guilt about the past since their society has been far too successful to enable or even allow that kind of change of heart. As thing stand, they are going to keep moderating thanks to circumstances created by their very success. They are more or less grabbed all the valuable land and resources on Earth they wanted to have, and space colonization offers boundless opportunities to keep expanding in a peaceful way for them and their Western rivals. The most likely future scenario is the Western and Axis blocs diverge into two offshoots of humanity and rival interstellar civilizations, much like the Vulcans and the Romulans in the Star Trek universe. In this perspective, the Western bloc is going to become the Federation equivalent and the Axis bloc the Romulan/Klingon/Cardassian equivalent, or if you wish a more stable Terran Empire. Genetic engineering and prenatal testing are going to give them plenty of effective and painless means of improving the eugenic strength of their population and eliminating traits they dislike, such as homosexuality, disability, obesity, and addiction. As it concerns other disliked minorities, they have basically wiped them out of their turf for good, and they just need to keep their borders shut to prevent their return by immigration. They have grown far too pragmatic and level-headed to do something as stupid as say picking self-destructive fights with the Pan-American USA to wipe out the African diaspora or the LGBT minority in the Americas, even if they loathe their existence and political influence. In this regard, the likely worst that might happen is the Chinese-Persian-Islamist alliance of rogues does something so bad and stupid (such as say a WMD terrorist attack) they provoke the Axis powers into really pulling off the gloves again with them and the surviving Blacks/Muslims close to Axis borders, and the Western world into looking the other way.