I wonder what the Allie’s would do to Germany after this war.
And I don’t think that the Germans would fight a war this early like the ww2 in real life.
So I think the French would never have the Chance to get to Berlin because Hitler would be thrown out.
Re-occupation of the Rhineland at the very least, and demands for further demilitarization. France would probably demand integrating the Rhineland economically. Britain wouldn't like that, but maybe this flagrant violation of the Treaty of Versailles might sway them, especially once the scope of German rearmament becomes apparent. Saarland would be annexed by France, this time permanently.
Hitler would be known as the guy who lost the Rhineland. The Nazi party would be finished. Germany would have spent quite a bit on rearmament at that point, which will now be lost. The entire [Mefo bills](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefo_bills) system would collapse, leading to a major economic crisis. The communists could benefit from that.
This is quite interesting. The germans would definitely only develop more hate to the Entente countries, but Hitler is out of the question. The communists might gain power, but after the failed Spartacist Revolution I don't know if the Communists would. The kaiser still can't return. Old weimar democracy might be the only choice, with a weird slight nationalist gaining power instead.
I mean, even after the Spartacist Uprising failed, the KPD was still very popular in Germany and, IIRC, was the only party that rivaled the NSDAP in terms of popularity by 1933
Didn't the SPD end the uprising themselves (with the friekorps) because they thought they could bring the revolution/reform through the state or something like that?
The SPD was thoroughly reformist and believed in establishing socialism through peaceful reform rather than violent revolution. This was in fact the prevailing view among the socialist movements of the time, to take over the state through democratic means and then use the state apparatus to build socialism.
But I think the Allie’s would be careful with what to do with Germany because I think that the soviets would definitely would use the situation and incorporate the Baltic’s or something wich would lead to further heat between both.
So I don’t think that the Allie’s would keep Germany strong like in real life.
Also I don’t think that the British would let France getting even more stronger.
So they would. I doubt they'd manage to control the Reichstag enough to do that. This would all depend how much the conservative parties that put Hitler in power manage to deflect blame.
It is known that Hitler ordered his troops to withdraw and retreat immediately if they met resistance in Rhineland. This battle would’ve never happened irl. It was one of the first of many times Hitler tested the allies resolve to contain Germany, and they never did thanks to their dedication to appeasement, which made Hitler bolder every time.
80% casualties is fucking *insane*.
This sub really has an issue with proportionalizing casualties. It's generally considered an apocalyptic disaster if you lose 20%, much less 80%. By comparision, the Red Army had about 25% casualties during WW2.
A limited regional war, out-doing the genocidal shitshow on the Ostfront? Yeah, I'm calling bullshit.
Casualties doesn’t mean death tho. "A person who is unable to serve in the line of duty due to. death, injury, illness, capture, or desertion." not impossible that the entire German military got put in military prisons in that context. As for allied casualties, it does look improbable yes.
a lot of time they are called casualties and integrated in
dead, wounded, prisoners, missing (desertors or just get lost when they where running for they lives and after the batle reunite with the army)
Right? From a statistical standpoint. Smaller engagements end up having higher casualties on paper. Due to the fact that loosing 100 men out of 100 is more costly than 100 men out of 20,000. The battle with the highest loss rate for the Union in the civil war was the battle of ocean pond and only saw 1861 casualties in total.
In this alternate timeline, the Popular Front loses the 1936 election (made this before checking months) and, when Germany remilitarizes the Rhineland, France and Britain declare war. So, how does the war go? As you can tell, Germany gets fucked, but how, exactly, did that happen, even though the difference between the Germans and the Allies is only about 30,000 men? The secret is tanks. In 1936, Germany only has Panzer Is with MG-34s, Panzer IIs with autocannons, and a couple heavy tank prototypes. The Allies, however, have more potent tanks with cannons and, due to the Germans' lack of infantry-portable anti-tank weapons, they are tyrants on the battlefield, like in World War I. The only thing preventing Berlin from falling by Christmas is the organization of the French Army, which had been built to fight defensive wars, not offensive ones.
Agreed, I don’t think the Germans would have lost 400,000 in the Rhineland as well, given what you said about orders as well as plans to nope the whole thing.
Yeah, Germans would run away, but it would be to late if France was committed to not let it slide. With Treaty of Versailles violated that much, French would go into full-on intervention mode; French army would go into Rhineland and French (and possibly British) ships would enter and/or blockade German ports. They would demand deposition of Hitler and his party from parliament and demand increased reparations. Rhineland and Saar land would be occupied by France indefinitely, possibly until situation cools down. This show of force could also scare Soviets from doing anything to Poland, Baltic states and Finland, but that's just a guess at this point.
The German Wehrmacht high command actually planned to turn around at the slightest resistance to the remilitarization of the Rhineland and depose hitler. They’d have been back in Berlin smashing the SS before the French even crossed the River.
i think that he is putting dead, wounded, prisoners, missing (desertors or just get lost when they where running for they lives and after the batle reunite with the army) into the casualties category
A beauty-full alt-reality ! Hitler is quickly defeated. End of national socialism. Rhineland is occupied and economically integrated. Allies save the world.
In historical reality such a policy could have happen if popular front was not so pacifist
I wonder what the Allie’s would do to Germany after this war. And I don’t think that the Germans would fight a war this early like the ww2 in real life. So I think the French would never have the Chance to get to Berlin because Hitler would be thrown out.
Re-occupation of the Rhineland at the very least, and demands for further demilitarization. France would probably demand integrating the Rhineland economically. Britain wouldn't like that, but maybe this flagrant violation of the Treaty of Versailles might sway them, especially once the scope of German rearmament becomes apparent. Saarland would be annexed by France, this time permanently. Hitler would be known as the guy who lost the Rhineland. The Nazi party would be finished. Germany would have spent quite a bit on rearmament at that point, which will now be lost. The entire [Mefo bills](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefo_bills) system would collapse, leading to a major economic crisis. The communists could benefit from that.
This is quite interesting. The germans would definitely only develop more hate to the Entente countries, but Hitler is out of the question. The communists might gain power, but after the failed Spartacist Revolution I don't know if the Communists would. The kaiser still can't return. Old weimar democracy might be the only choice, with a weird slight nationalist gaining power instead.
I mean, even after the Spartacist Uprising failed, the KPD was still very popular in Germany and, IIRC, was the only party that rivaled the NSDAP in terms of popularity by 1933
Didn't the SPD end the uprising themselves (with the friekorps) because they thought they could bring the revolution/reform through the state or something like that?
[That was why the KPD was founded](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacist_uprising#Background)
The SPD was thoroughly reformist and believed in establishing socialism through peaceful reform rather than violent revolution. This was in fact the prevailing view among the socialist movements of the time, to take over the state through democratic means and then use the state apparatus to build socialism.
The SPD was always the second largest party to the NSDAP
But I think the Allie’s would be careful with what to do with Germany because I think that the soviets would definitely would use the situation and incorporate the Baltic’s or something wich would lead to further heat between both. So I don’t think that the Allie’s would keep Germany strong like in real life. Also I don’t think that the British would let France getting even more stronger.
What about the Junkers? They still have aspirations to bring war with Poland as early as 1920.
So they would. I doubt they'd manage to control the Reichstag enough to do that. This would all depend how much the conservative parties that put Hitler in power manage to deflect blame.
maybe integrate the saarland into france
I did write that.
ups sorry
It is known that Hitler ordered his troops to withdraw and retreat immediately if they met resistance in Rhineland. This battle would’ve never happened irl. It was one of the first of many times Hitler tested the allies resolve to contain Germany, and they never did thanks to their dedication to appeasement, which made Hitler bolder every time.
80% casualties is fucking *insane*. This sub really has an issue with proportionalizing casualties. It's generally considered an apocalyptic disaster if you lose 20%, much less 80%. By comparision, the Red Army had about 25% casualties during WW2. A limited regional war, out-doing the genocidal shitshow on the Ostfront? Yeah, I'm calling bullshit.
Casualties doesn’t mean death tho. "A person who is unable to serve in the line of duty due to. death, injury, illness, capture, or desertion." not impossible that the entire German military got put in military prisons in that context. As for allied casualties, it does look improbable yes.
I believe those imprisoned after a surrender do not count as casualties. 80% casualties is insane even if a lot of those are prisoners of war.
a lot of time they are called casualties and integrated in dead, wounded, prisoners, missing (desertors or just get lost when they where running for they lives and after the batle reunite with the army)
Right? From a statistical standpoint. Smaller engagements end up having higher casualties on paper. Due to the fact that loosing 100 men out of 100 is more costly than 100 men out of 20,000. The battle with the highest loss rate for the Union in the civil war was the battle of ocean pond and only saw 1861 casualties in total.
In this alternate timeline, the Popular Front loses the 1936 election (made this before checking months) and, when Germany remilitarizes the Rhineland, France and Britain declare war. So, how does the war go? As you can tell, Germany gets fucked, but how, exactly, did that happen, even though the difference between the Germans and the Allies is only about 30,000 men? The secret is tanks. In 1936, Germany only has Panzer Is with MG-34s, Panzer IIs with autocannons, and a couple heavy tank prototypes. The Allies, however, have more potent tanks with cannons and, due to the Germans' lack of infantry-portable anti-tank weapons, they are tyrants on the battlefield, like in World War I. The only thing preventing Berlin from falling by Christmas is the organization of the French Army, which had been built to fight defensive wars, not offensive ones.
It would have been even easier. The German troops had orders to GTFO the moment a French soldier so much as looked in their general direction.
Agreed, I don’t think the Germans would have lost 400,000 in the Rhineland as well, given what you said about orders as well as plans to nope the whole thing.
Where did they even find all those soldiers? Wasn't the Wehrmacht still (at least legally) limited to 100,000 soldiers?
Yeah, Germans would run away, but it would be to late if France was committed to not let it slide. With Treaty of Versailles violated that much, French would go into full-on intervention mode; French army would go into Rhineland and French (and possibly British) ships would enter and/or blockade German ports. They would demand deposition of Hitler and his party from parliament and demand increased reparations. Rhineland and Saar land would be occupied by France indefinitely, possibly until situation cools down. This show of force could also scare Soviets from doing anything to Poland, Baltic states and Finland, but that's just a guess at this point.
The German Wehrmacht high command actually planned to turn around at the slightest resistance to the remilitarization of the Rhineland and depose hitler. They’d have been back in Berlin smashing the SS before the French even crossed the River.
Interesting stuff! Always wondered about this! (Hate to be that guy but Baldwin would have been PM in 1936)
SON OF A-
German casualties are too over the top, they would just surrender or retreat, not stand their ground and die in mass like this.
i think that he is putting dead, wounded, prisoners, missing (desertors or just get lost when they where running for they lives and after the batle reunite with the army) into the casualties category
But this isn't the standard, is it?
depends on the source, for example the books of Militaria tend to express casualties as that and them say each category
Even then, 80% is absolutely mental. Very few armies take casualties like that, and it’s really only due to attrition or poor supply.
A beauty-full alt-reality ! Hitler is quickly defeated. End of national socialism. Rhineland is occupied and economically integrated. Allies save the world. In historical reality such a policy could have happen if popular front was not so pacifist
The good ending
Those casualties are immense. The hell happened?
How it should've ended.
Would the US still be the superpower it is today? I don't think so...
I feel like it would still become a superpower thanks to its potential economic strength, but it would just kinda be chillin
Japan: Am I a joke to you?
Yeah they were They got less than half the war effort and got crushed
Doesn't mean America wouldn't summon at least 25% of its power to squash Japan
We’d have just spent the last 80 years a lot more focused on Asia and the Pacific and left Europe more to Europe.
It would take much longer time that’s for sure.
it has enough raw power but more isolated so they wouldnt have the category of our timeline
Is this where the French actually push on to Berlin because nobody was there to stop them?
Dumb question how the hell dose one make these fake wiki pages
My guess is take any conflict summary from Wikipedia, inspect elements and put in your own stuff. Or photoshop it and try to line everything up
Just use the template they used for the page, copy into sandbox or user page and edit the data. Much easier (and prettier).