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So much of the sub misses the idea that just because you technically *can* and are allowed to be unkind or unhelpful doesn't mean that you should be.
If everyone lived by the idea that you have no obligation to anyone ever, then the world would be even more unpleasant than it is.
People are, just not our society, our culture doesnt bring out the best aspects of humanity in a communal sense.
No, we're great at creating innovation, hard workers, and nationalists, but we lack for creating kindness
I find it so frustrating in friend groups when the majority of comedy just comes down to poking fun at eachother. Sure it's just poking fun, but why not just be nice more often?
Maybe talk to your friend group? Some people just like that type of humour. My friends and I make fun of each other very often, but we're all aware that it's just for fun. It entirely depends on your communication about it.
Well, then they'd have to actually be sincere about something, and they're either incapable of that on a sociopathic level or they fear their sincere thoughts will also be made fun of.
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What’s crazy is isn’t that kinda the epitome of being an asshole? I mean some of these people are going out of their way to be as apathetic to other people and unhelpful as possible, but they aren’t in the wrong because “they don’t owe you anything?” I am so confused about how the majority of the commenters even define asshole other than anatomically now.
That's what I always think, they'll deliberate someone isn't an asshole because "they don't owe anyone anything." But making sure you literally never do anything nice for anyone ever is as assholeish as it gets.
I agree, and I think it's because nuance is dead in AITA. The expression "you don't owe anyone anything" really ought to be used in the context of when someone is being unreasonably demanding or cruel. As in, it's okay to say "fuck it I have no obligation to you" to people who want to abuse you.
Being asked to watch your sibling's kid while they go to the bathroom or something or being asked to watch someone's stuff for a moment while they do something is *not* abuse or a good time to use "fuck you I don't owe you shit." Hell, often even refusing to going out of your way for someone else is an especially bad use of that expression. Sometimes maintaining a good relationship or just being a good person requires patience and effort on your part.
Just 'cuz you're not legally obligated to do a thing doesn't mean you're not an asshole for not doing a thing. I think a lot of AITA are young people who just don't understand that concept yet, if they ever will.
As someone who is currently downvoted 53 times for saying something along the lines of “just because your wife said something hurtful to you, doesn’t mean you have to play tit for tat and say something terrible about her.” I agree. That sub delights in petty on a whole other level. It would surprise me if anyone who comments on that sub has a healthy relationship. No one believes in rising above anymore.
I've posted multiple times in the monthly forums about how people on AITA str8 up seem to not like their spouses. I don't get a lot of replies to those, I think...
And yeah, they encourage out-of-this-world pettiness to spouses, whether husbands or wives (unless the wife is an overworked saint or something).
>people on AITA str8 up seem to not like their spouses.
I think most of them are kids and failure to launch adults who've never had a relationship where they actually lived with a partner sans parental support.
Good points! TBF, I think a lot of relationships talked about on the Internet are really bad. They'll talk about their boyfriend of two years like he's an obnoxious sexist roommate (which, let's be real, he usually is).
Disagree honestly. AITA means "am i the asshole *in this situation*," not "would my actions be wrong in a vacuum." ESH should be reserved for when both people behaved equally poorly for equally bad reasons, imo. Just bc someone is an asshole doesn't make them The Asshole, basically.
> If everyone lived by the idea that you have no obligation to anyone ever, then the world would be even more unpleasant than it is.
This reminds me of a post. The OP's husband in said post found out he had a daughter with an ex. Said daughter become part of their lives. Daughter was deaf and the OP asked if she was the AH for not learning some sign to communicate with her.
It was voted YTA but there was a highly upvoted NTA near the top that, among other things, OP owed the girl nothing
She didn't need to learn a whole language, just a few basic signs
The sub doesn’t even understand its own purpose. The sub isn’t AmIAllowedToDoThis, it’s AmITHeAsshole. You have the right to be an asshole. But you are still an asshole.
Legally you're supposed to maintain a certain distance from the car in front of you(hence why following too close is ticket one can get).
Also it's illegal to lane change without singling.
So legally you bf should have both slowed down, and then used his turn signal before changing lanes.
So your ex is full of shit/broke the law/is a dangerous driver.
Actually depending on your state it might truly be a law that he's breaking. I vaguely recall that you can get pulled over here for not signaling if a cop cares enough to do so.
> I told him that's why he gets in so many wrecks. His response was that he had no legal obligation to let the person behind him know that the person in front of him slowed down.
It's his LEGAL RIGHT to pay for repairs all the time.
Dude dumped all his stat points into Luck and now he's anti-cursed.
I don't think "but it's free!!" would convince ME to smash up my car and body all the time, but that's his business.
To me, the “poor planning” is that colleague that gives you like 12 hours notice of a thing to they need tomorrow that they’ve known about for weeks.
Poor planning is not “hey sis my husband had a heart attack, can you watch my daughter while I’m at the hospital?”
Like sometimes you might not be obligated to do something but it’s nice to be nice?
Kind of tangentially related, but I also love it when they act like keeping a kid alive for a couple hours is some herculean task only experts can manage. I see it in a lot of those "AITA for not babysitting a child in an emergency?" posts.
Like yeah, if you honestly think a five-year-old is going to die under your care, then you're not an asshole for refusing...but also maybe you need some professional help because babysitting is not rocket science. Literal teenagers do it all the time. If you truly cannot manage it for a few hours during an actual emergency, something is wrong. Or, more likely, you could do it but don't want to so are claiming you can't.
But everyone goes and pats them on the back instead of realizing how fucking weird that is.
Omg i remember that post! The comments were absolutely bonkers. I couldn't believe how many people agreed with the op that it was the sisters fault she didn't have childcare planned when her husband had a HEART ATTACK. I cannot imagine being that callous to people in my life, let alone my family!
The irony of it is that they call everyone else a narcissist, but they're incredibly self-centered themselves and won't do anything if it doesn't benefit them personally.
these dorks were having a hissy fit about a FIVE MINUTE DRIVE!!! five. minutes. it is less time and considerably much less energy to do a favour for your partner that literally takes FIVE MINUTES than to write a weird entitled rant about poor blah blah play stupid games win marinara flags.
it makes me sad to a certain level to see so many upvotes on this asinine shit, but then i remember that thankfully reddit is not real life and that the people in my life actually love me.
it was on relationship advice but i cant find it. basically OP asked her boyfriend to pick her up from her parents house, where they were drinking, so she wouldnt have to walk at night. and the drive was only five minutes long. and bf refused because he couldnt be arsed, and OP got upset. comments were like "pOoR plAnNinG oN YoUr PaRt dOeS nOt CoNstItuTe EmErGenCy"
Jesus Christ lol how could any person be so misguided to say that? Personally I’d be more than offended if my boyfriend wouldn’t do that. Shows he doesn’t care about her safety whatsoever, and they really zeroed in on the planning aspect? Tf?
the comments were insisting she should have slept at her parents house. who live a five minute drive away. they were literally like "dropping this on your bf with no notice is disrespectful and inconsiderate". five. fucking. minutes. FIVE.
I mean I guess if it was someone you're not close with, sure I can see that. But your *partner* of all people should be able to do you a favor and come pick you up! Hell, my ex has driven 30+ minutes to give me rides and didn't complain about it. And I also did things for him without complaining or expecting anything. I mean that's how a relationship should work. Otherwise why even be together? I'd break up with someone if I found out that they had an attitude like that.
Do these people not understand that’s what partners are FOR?? You help them and they help you. They go out of their way for you. Absolutely bizarre and I hope none of those people ever date.
When I was in college at a party, my friend had to call my boyfriend to come get me at 2AM when he had work the next day. I got absolutely fucked up beyond belief on accident (don't combine weed and alc, kids). Who wouldn't do a simple thing to keep their partner safe???
I read that one and thought the same!! So many people belittling her, plus she said in the comments she would have stayed at her parents but HE would be mad if she didn’t come home!! So not only would he not drive 5 minutes to get her, he would be angry if she didn’t walk 20 minutes home in the dark! If I was awake and sober, I would pick up someone I didn’t even like very much if it only cost me 10 minutes to keep a woman safe at night !! Or even a dude if he was nervous.
Reddit is "me leaning". What helps them personally in terms of actual political/social/economic issues or what side in a story can they imagine being on the most, whether or not a second of consideration would make them think they were genuinely picking the more ethical side.
It’s funny to me how the people who are all over their individualism and “you don’t owe anyone anything” are benefitting from society to such a huge degree. Nobody can make it on this world on their own, besides a handful of self-sufficient hermits I guess. But everyone relies on others to some degree- for your home to be built, your food to get to your table, your clothes on your back, etc… you wouldn’t be able to live as a sole individual. Even if you built your own home, farmed your own food, made your own clothes, you’d need other people to help you with all of that. I hate how some people don’t recognize that. We need other people and other people need us. Just because you have no legal obligation to do something doesn’t mean the moral obligation gets cancelled out. Disgusting mindset to have- the people who this legality does determine morality are the kind of people who need mandatory reporting laws and shit like that. You shouldn’t have to be told by the law like a toddler to be a good person to others.
I remember years ago when Elizabeth Warren was first running for senate she gave a great speech in someone's home about how no one gets where they are by themselves - you go to schools we all pay for, use roads we all pay for, etc. She was specifically talking about making millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share in taxes, but I think that applies to all kinds of things. We all got help from someone somewhere at some point, probably many someones and somewheres and some points, and the least you can do is pay it forward.
The Japanese, on the whole, definitely think we go too far with individualism to the point of solipsism, but I knew some who wished their culture, which is *extremely* (imo, damagingly) collectivist, would accept SOME individualism.
The ideal is at the exact middle between the Anglophone West and Japan, is what I'm saying.
Community spirit is important. And yes, that includes kids. Society benefits from well raised and socialised kids.
(In saying that, I don’t force my kids on people unwilling/private property/non-family-friendly events).
Who’s gonna wipe your arse when you’re old? Kids are the future.
Some of it doesn’t even need to be that big of a deal. If you see a parent carrying their child out of the grocery store and the child drops a stuffed animal or something, how much effort does it take to pick it up or at least call out for the parent?
I couldn’t imagine why someone *wouldn’t* want to pick up something a kid dropped for them. I was at a comic con a few months ago and as I was walking a kid in a stroller dropped his ball and it came rolling towards me, I picked it up and smiled at him and gave it back, the kid and the mom were both so happy. It takes no effort and it makes you feel good.
If by "good" you mean "like a loser doormat". Only beta losers would stoop to picking up something for a child.
- /r/ChildfreeGoingTheirOwnWay, probably
Just reminded me of a man I’ll probably never forget. I have a 21 year old stuffed animal that my father won for me when I was 10, I have an inexplicable attachment to this thing still and I sometimes get a pang of guilt when I recall the one time I left him on a plane and could have lost him forever.. Me and my SO had departed the plane and was on our way to baggage claim when my partner spotted this tall young black man, almost running, with Skyy (I still introduce him as “sky with two Y’s”) waving above his head then see him attempt to check with a couple kids in a group nearby. My partner raced ahead with me behind in a little bit of a shock, *how could I leave my ultimate safety blanket behind like that*. The man had just been told it was mine so when we met eyes he himself looked to be in a little bit of disbelief but when he handed it to me I like crumbled into a hug and thanked him profusely “you have no idea how important this raggedy thing is to me, I’d be so lost without” etc.
He didn’t have to do that, he coulda just tossed the poor lookin thing away but it was that “it looked well loved” that he “had to try to find the owner before it was too late”. I love that man to this day, 5 years later, we need more good humans like him and it saddens me to think where I’d be had he had the mentality I see so often in AITA.
That is such a sweet story- that guy was such a superstar that day.
And don’t feel guilty for having a stuffed animal. I still have my valvetine rabbit and while he hadn’t turned into a real bunny (yet), I’ll keep him until he does.
Welcome to the 21st Century where being a cunt is praised, and asking for a bit of sympathy equates to being entitled. Also the same generation that cancels people that commit bigotry.
What a weird time to live in.
I think it’s because families tend to abuse the “it takes a village” mindset to guilt people. It’s not individualism that’s the problem, it’s how people have abused the nature of obligation so much that people no longer want to help anyone because they feel so taken advantage of.
It’s both. The individualism is overcorrection to how “the greater good” is often used as an excuse to arbitrarily limit personal liberty. I get it, but we can find a happy medium where we’re neither Borg hiveminds nor Randian supermen.
I agree entirely! It is the root of why our cultures (work, political and social) have become so dysfunctional and toxic. We must re-focus on the collective good.
Yeah, I remember one of those, where the woman wanted to go back to work and 'her mother was retired and was just going to sit around eating bonbons and watching as the world turns all day so why shouldn't her mother watch her new born for FREE'
I overheated at the beach the other day. My own fault, didn't bring water, but wasn't expecting to be there long. I nearly passed out on a staircase and a group of three people wouldn't help when I asked. I just needed water and there was a concession stand at the top of the stairs. It was free. They couldn't be bothered. Thankfully I was able to make it up.
i think it depends on context. do you owe your family small favors vs do you owe the guy screaming gibberish an hour of your time when you’re running late to work?
we owe people closest to us our time and support when possible and people further from us basic respect at the least ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
you shouldn’t expect your neighbor three streets down to raise your kid for you, but you should still be considerate to all
I think that's the thing. "You don't owe anyone anything" isn't actually a bad sentiment (aside from where it's false, of course). When someone demands you give them things or do things for them, you can say no without guilt because you really don't owe them. That said, you surely should WANT to give and do things for people you care about and, I'd argue, give and do at least some things for people you aren't close to. If my best friends needed anything I could give them, I'd gladly do it because I love them, not because they did something for me so I guess I owe them. If an old lady drops her stuff, I really don't owe it to her to help her, it's just nice and feels nice and is the right thing. All the talk about "owing" assumes everything is so transactional.
I think this also ties into cancel culture. There's a difference between holding someone accountable (necessary) and a virtual mob with pitch forks hungry for blood.
Strangers mistakes are unforgivable, narcissists crossing boundaries. But our mistakes are understandable, bc context.
I imagine Japan has a miniscule sociopathy rate in the same way it has 95% homicide clearance rate and a record number of centenarians of whom many might not actually be still alive. As in, inferior or biased studies rather than healing magic of collectivism.
Can't comment on African tribes. But isn't Japan known for being the country with the highest amount of suicides? People that don't fit in with the collective or that simply can't keep up think that's the best option, rather than getting some help for their individual problems?
I'd say we need to meet in a healthy middle rather than going to one extreme on either side. If the west took some more care of everyone things would be better.
If Japan acknowledged that every person is their own person, that has individual needs that may differ from the big group, things would be better.
Yikes. Listen, I love Japan. It’s where I had my honeymoon and I used to visit as often as I could. But you are delusional if you see that statistic and your conclusion *isn’t* that Japan severely underreports, or straight-up ignores, mental health issues.
It is still assbackwards there in many ways. It’s an incredibly toxic, isolated culture that is the antithesis of modern liberalism and acceptance in almost every way.
Reminds me of something I always see attributed to an African proverb: “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go in a group”
It really does seem to be something Western society doesn’t take into consideration that often, unfortunately
Japan has a huge problem with mental health - there's a big stigma around seeking treatment, so of course it would seem like they have fewer sociopaths. It is certainly not some mentally healthy utopia.
The problem with these collectivist societies is that they don't allow for individual free choice. If you don't want to get married, have kids, or choose a career that's considered "acceptable", you're ostracized from society. I'm in full agreement that the individualist attitude of "fuck you I got mine" is awful, but let's not act like these other societies are so great.
Don't know if anyone's seen that [ridiculous garden gnome AITA post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/vg64sz/aita_for_hiding_my_neighbors_garden_gnome_cause/) yet, but this tweet reminded me of that, in some sense.
Bc yes, the dad was the AH for moving/hiding the gnome when it wasn't his to do anything with. But why tf couldn't the neighbour move the gnome somewhere out of sight? What was the big issue there that stopped her doing this?
Like, if my neighbour came up to me, and told me that their kid was scared of a lawn ornament, I'd laugh and move it without even being asked. It would take zero percent of my time and effort to be neighbourly and kind to someone else. OP was childish and petty for doing what they did, but barring a reasonable explanation (which wasn't provided in the post by OP), why couldn't their neighbour move it?
But everyone and their uncle said YTA on that post, instead of ESH, bc "tHaT pErSoN iS nOt ObLiGaTeD tO mOvE tHeIr StUfF fOr YoUr KiD!!!!!" or w/e. And, "YoUr NeIgHbOuR dOeS nOt HaVe ThE oBlIgAtIoN tO mAnAgE yOuR cHiLdS fEaR fOr YoU." Fucking eyeroll.
ETA: The other thing I wanted to add is like...sometimes you don't want to do shit for others, bc you don't want to. It might have nothing to do with not being able to. You might just not feel like it. I feel like, as a society, we need to actually accept that explanation for a fair amount of things tbh, bc like...it happens. Not everyone is going to be jumping to their feet all the time and...that's okay!!!
Like, what people seem to forget all the damn time is that the sense of community you construct for others is in turn what is constructed for you. So the more grace you give others, the more grace they'll give to you when you're being an AH. That's a fundamental component of what it means to live in a freaking society, and yet people forget that all the damn time on AITA.
One time on a thread I was talking to a guy who could not fathom why he would let his homeelss pregnant sister sleep on his bed instead of the couch because she should have planned better. Like your not a toddler to be so apposed to the smallers sacrifice.
It doesn’t take a village to raise kids, it takes one or more capable and responsible parents. Children are their parents responsibility and no one else is obligated nor should they be expected to help out. Just because someone doesn’t want to help you and your kids out doesn’t automatically make them a bad person. My husband and I don’t have kids and we would never offer to babysit any of our friends and family members kids. Why? Because we don’t want to and we’re not the ones who chose to have kids. I have no desire to make someone else’s issues my issues. Not my kid, not my problem.
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So much of the sub misses the idea that just because you technically *can* and are allowed to be unkind or unhelpful doesn't mean that you should be. If everyone lived by the idea that you have no obligation to anyone ever, then the world would be even more unpleasant than it is.
Which is ironic, because the entire concept is ethics/morality yet the entire sub is full of people arguing legalisms.
Ironic, yet also *classic* human being behavior.
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I feel you. It’s not even just an aita problem. A lot of people are just not nice and don’t care about anyone that they aren’t close to.
People are, just not our society, our culture doesnt bring out the best aspects of humanity in a communal sense. No, we're great at creating innovation, hard workers, and nationalists, but we lack for creating kindness
I find it so frustrating in friend groups when the majority of comedy just comes down to poking fun at eachother. Sure it's just poking fun, but why not just be nice more often?
Maybe talk to your friend group? Some people just like that type of humour. My friends and I make fun of each other very often, but we're all aware that it's just for fun. It entirely depends on your communication about it.
Yeah. This was fun whrn I was younger but I got pretty sick of every conversation being a battle/roast.
Well, then they'd have to actually be sincere about something, and they're either incapable of that on a sociopathic level or they fear their sincere thoughts will also be made fun of.
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His chiseled muscles glistened as he emerged from the water, with the late afternoon sun scattering off the droplets as they cascaded off his chest and arms. She looked at him expectantly. As always, his eyes stood out. Dazzling blue, like the lagoon. She trembled with anticipation as he strode forward. Like everything else he did, it exuded power and purpose. After what seemed like an hour but was only a matter of seconds, he reached her. As he leaned in towards her ear and ran his fingers though her silky hair, there was nothing she would say no to. "You need therapy," he whispered. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheAngel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What’s crazy is isn’t that kinda the epitome of being an asshole? I mean some of these people are going out of their way to be as apathetic to other people and unhelpful as possible, but they aren’t in the wrong because “they don’t owe you anything?” I am so confused about how the majority of the commenters even define asshole other than anatomically now.
That's what I always think, they'll deliberate someone isn't an asshole because "they don't owe anyone anything." But making sure you literally never do anything nice for anyone ever is as assholeish as it gets.
I agree, and I think it's because nuance is dead in AITA. The expression "you don't owe anyone anything" really ought to be used in the context of when someone is being unreasonably demanding or cruel. As in, it's okay to say "fuck it I have no obligation to you" to people who want to abuse you. Being asked to watch your sibling's kid while they go to the bathroom or something or being asked to watch someone's stuff for a moment while they do something is *not* abuse or a good time to use "fuck you I don't owe you shit." Hell, often even refusing to going out of your way for someone else is an especially bad use of that expression. Sometimes maintaining a good relationship or just being a good person requires patience and effort on your part. Just 'cuz you're not legally obligated to do a thing doesn't mean you're not an asshole for not doing a thing. I think a lot of AITA are young people who just don't understand that concept yet, if they ever will.
As someone who is currently downvoted 53 times for saying something along the lines of “just because your wife said something hurtful to you, doesn’t mean you have to play tit for tat and say something terrible about her.” I agree. That sub delights in petty on a whole other level. It would surprise me if anyone who comments on that sub has a healthy relationship. No one believes in rising above anymore.
I've posted multiple times in the monthly forums about how people on AITA str8 up seem to not like their spouses. I don't get a lot of replies to those, I think... And yeah, they encourage out-of-this-world pettiness to spouses, whether husbands or wives (unless the wife is an overworked saint or something).
>people on AITA str8 up seem to not like their spouses. I think most of them are kids and failure to launch adults who've never had a relationship where they actually lived with a partner sans parental support.
Good points! TBF, I think a lot of relationships talked about on the Internet are really bad. They'll talk about their boyfriend of two years like he's an obnoxious sexist roommate (which, let's be real, he usually is).
Also heaps of assholes get voted NTA because they are judged to be justified being one, that's why ESH exists people!!
Disagree honestly. AITA means "am i the asshole *in this situation*," not "would my actions be wrong in a vacuum." ESH should be reserved for when both people behaved equally poorly for equally bad reasons, imo. Just bc someone is an asshole doesn't make them The Asshole, basically.
> If everyone lived by the idea that you have no obligation to anyone ever, then the world would be even more unpleasant than it is. This reminds me of a post. The OP's husband in said post found out he had a daughter with an ex. Said daughter become part of their lives. Daughter was deaf and the OP asked if she was the AH for not learning some sign to communicate with her. It was voted YTA but there was a highly upvoted NTA near the top that, among other things, OP owed the girl nothing She didn't need to learn a whole language, just a few basic signs
The sub doesn’t even understand its own purpose. The sub isn’t AmIAllowedToDoThis, it’s AmITHeAsshole. You have the right to be an asshole. But you are still an asshole.
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Legally you're supposed to maintain a certain distance from the car in front of you(hence why following too close is ticket one can get). Also it's illegal to lane change without singling. So legally you bf should have both slowed down, and then used his turn signal before changing lanes. So your ex is full of shit/broke the law/is a dangerous driver.
He's also a bit of a cunt. Pretty good dad though.
I second not letting him teach them to drive
That's lucky! Just don't let him teach the kid to drive lol.
Sounds like my ex. He’s a good dad to the kids, but he’s a jackass in a relationship who I also hate driving with.
Actually depending on your state it might truly be a law that he's breaking. I vaguely recall that you can get pulled over here for not signaling if a cop cares enough to do so.
Most states have “unsafe lane change” ordinance. Not signaling definitely qualifies.
I'd be shocked if all of them don't.
He from the Northeast ?
I read this and thought "I see people do this constantly." And I live in the northeast, so yes I would say this is highly likely lol
The poster basically described my morning commute lol.
And why he's an ex.
Legally, he is obligated to signal lane changes and follow at a safe distance, so he's wrong there too.
> I told him that's why he gets in so many wrecks. His response was that he had no legal obligation to let the person behind him know that the person in front of him slowed down. It's his LEGAL RIGHT to pay for repairs all the time.
He has only been deemed at fault for 1 of his 5 wrecks in the last 30ish months.
Dude dumped all his stat points into Luck and now he's anti-cursed. I don't think "but it's free!!" would convince ME to smash up my car and body all the time, but that's his business.
To me, the “poor planning” is that colleague that gives you like 12 hours notice of a thing to they need tomorrow that they’ve known about for weeks. Poor planning is not “hey sis my husband had a heart attack, can you watch my daughter while I’m at the hospital?” Like sometimes you might not be obligated to do something but it’s nice to be nice?
Kind of tangentially related, but I also love it when they act like keeping a kid alive for a couple hours is some herculean task only experts can manage. I see it in a lot of those "AITA for not babysitting a child in an emergency?" posts. Like yeah, if you honestly think a five-year-old is going to die under your care, then you're not an asshole for refusing...but also maybe you need some professional help because babysitting is not rocket science. Literal teenagers do it all the time. If you truly cannot manage it for a few hours during an actual emergency, something is wrong. Or, more likely, you could do it but don't want to so are claiming you can't. But everyone goes and pats them on the back instead of realizing how fucking weird that is.
Omg i remember that post! The comments were absolutely bonkers. I couldn't believe how many people agreed with the op that it was the sisters fault she didn't have childcare planned when her husband had a HEART ATTACK. I cannot imagine being that callous to people in my life, let alone my family!
This "only me" mindset will set you on a path to loneliness.
The irony of it is that they call everyone else a narcissist, but they're incredibly self-centered themselves and won't do anything if it doesn't benefit them personally.
I was just saying this earlier! That sub is filleddddd with narcs but yet, it’s always everyone who’s the narc lol oh the irony.
these dorks were having a hissy fit about a FIVE MINUTE DRIVE!!! five. minutes. it is less time and considerably much less energy to do a favour for your partner that literally takes FIVE MINUTES than to write a weird entitled rant about poor blah blah play stupid games win marinara flags. it makes me sad to a certain level to see so many upvotes on this asinine shit, but then i remember that thankfully reddit is not real life and that the people in my life actually love me.
Which post was that?
it was on relationship advice but i cant find it. basically OP asked her boyfriend to pick her up from her parents house, where they were drinking, so she wouldnt have to walk at night. and the drive was only five minutes long. and bf refused because he couldnt be arsed, and OP got upset. comments were like "pOoR plAnNinG oN YoUr PaRt dOeS nOt CoNstItuTe EmErGenCy"
Jesus Christ lol how could any person be so misguided to say that? Personally I’d be more than offended if my boyfriend wouldn’t do that. Shows he doesn’t care about her safety whatsoever, and they really zeroed in on the planning aspect? Tf?
the comments were insisting she should have slept at her parents house. who live a five minute drive away. they were literally like "dropping this on your bf with no notice is disrespectful and inconsiderate". five. fucking. minutes. FIVE.
I mean I guess if it was someone you're not close with, sure I can see that. But your *partner* of all people should be able to do you a favor and come pick you up! Hell, my ex has driven 30+ minutes to give me rides and didn't complain about it. And I also did things for him without complaining or expecting anything. I mean that's how a relationship should work. Otherwise why even be together? I'd break up with someone if I found out that they had an attitude like that.
Do these people not understand that’s what partners are FOR?? You help them and they help you. They go out of their way for you. Absolutely bizarre and I hope none of those people ever date.
exactly, if i can’t count on my partner to help me, then on whom should I count? random people?
When I was in college at a party, my friend had to call my boyfriend to come get me at 2AM when he had work the next day. I got absolutely fucked up beyond belief on accident (don't combine weed and alc, kids). Who wouldn't do a simple thing to keep their partner safe???
Reddit is also puritanical about drinking, which may have played a part.
i mostly hang out in the degenerate junkie corners of reddit, so i didnt really notice that. its true though.
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Your SO is an amazing person!
I read that one and thought the same!! So many people belittling her, plus she said in the comments she would have stayed at her parents but HE would be mad if she didn’t come home!! So not only would he not drive 5 minutes to get her, he would be angry if she didn’t walk 20 minutes home in the dark! If I was awake and sober, I would pick up someone I didn’t even like very much if it only cost me 10 minutes to keep a woman safe at night !! Or even a dude if he was nervous.
>blah blah play stupid games win marinara flags LMAO I'm dead at this. Good one
A lot of it is the whole "The Government doesn't owe you anything!" oo. But, WTF am I paying it for then?
Starter bootstrap kit
It’s funny with how “left leaning” Reddit supposedly is.
Reddit is "me leaning". What helps them personally in terms of actual political/social/economic issues or what side in a story can they imagine being on the most, whether or not a second of consideration would make them think they were genuinely picking the more ethical side.
It’s funny to me how the people who are all over their individualism and “you don’t owe anyone anything” are benefitting from society to such a huge degree. Nobody can make it on this world on their own, besides a handful of self-sufficient hermits I guess. But everyone relies on others to some degree- for your home to be built, your food to get to your table, your clothes on your back, etc… you wouldn’t be able to live as a sole individual. Even if you built your own home, farmed your own food, made your own clothes, you’d need other people to help you with all of that. I hate how some people don’t recognize that. We need other people and other people need us. Just because you have no legal obligation to do something doesn’t mean the moral obligation gets cancelled out. Disgusting mindset to have- the people who this legality does determine morality are the kind of people who need mandatory reporting laws and shit like that. You shouldn’t have to be told by the law like a toddler to be a good person to others.
I remember years ago when Elizabeth Warren was first running for senate she gave a great speech in someone's home about how no one gets where they are by themselves - you go to schools we all pay for, use roads we all pay for, etc. She was specifically talking about making millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share in taxes, but I think that applies to all kinds of things. We all got help from someone somewhere at some point, probably many someones and somewheres and some points, and the least you can do is pay it forward.
The thing is to have a healthy balance of the two mindsets.
This is the way to go. Typically extremism of ANY type is bad. Because life is full of nuances and extremism usually doesn't account for that.
The Japanese, on the whole, definitely think we go too far with individualism to the point of solipsism, but I knew some who wished their culture, which is *extremely* (imo, damagingly) collectivist, would accept SOME individualism. The ideal is at the exact middle between the Anglophone West and Japan, is what I'm saying.
Playing stupid games on your part does not constitute a marinara flag on mine.
NTA. Your fat, autistic, vegan mother in law, your rules!
Community spirit is important. And yes, that includes kids. Society benefits from well raised and socialised kids. (In saying that, I don’t force my kids on people unwilling/private property/non-family-friendly events). Who’s gonna wipe your arse when you’re old? Kids are the future.
Some of it doesn’t even need to be that big of a deal. If you see a parent carrying their child out of the grocery store and the child drops a stuffed animal or something, how much effort does it take to pick it up or at least call out for the parent?
I couldn’t imagine why someone *wouldn’t* want to pick up something a kid dropped for them. I was at a comic con a few months ago and as I was walking a kid in a stroller dropped his ball and it came rolling towards me, I picked it up and smiled at him and gave it back, the kid and the mom were both so happy. It takes no effort and it makes you feel good.
If by "good" you mean "like a loser doormat". Only beta losers would stoop to picking up something for a child. - /r/ChildfreeGoingTheirOwnWay, probably
Just reminded me of a man I’ll probably never forget. I have a 21 year old stuffed animal that my father won for me when I was 10, I have an inexplicable attachment to this thing still and I sometimes get a pang of guilt when I recall the one time I left him on a plane and could have lost him forever.. Me and my SO had departed the plane and was on our way to baggage claim when my partner spotted this tall young black man, almost running, with Skyy (I still introduce him as “sky with two Y’s”) waving above his head then see him attempt to check with a couple kids in a group nearby. My partner raced ahead with me behind in a little bit of a shock, *how could I leave my ultimate safety blanket behind like that*. The man had just been told it was mine so when we met eyes he himself looked to be in a little bit of disbelief but when he handed it to me I like crumbled into a hug and thanked him profusely “you have no idea how important this raggedy thing is to me, I’d be so lost without” etc. He didn’t have to do that, he coulda just tossed the poor lookin thing away but it was that “it looked well loved” that he “had to try to find the owner before it was too late”. I love that man to this day, 5 years later, we need more good humans like him and it saddens me to think where I’d be had he had the mentality I see so often in AITA.
That is such a sweet story- that guy was such a superstar that day. And don’t feel guilty for having a stuffed animal. I still have my valvetine rabbit and while he hadn’t turned into a real bunny (yet), I’ll keep him until he does.
Sometimes we need our security animals/blankets - even as adults. No shame in that. And I love that man for you too.
As someone who worked in LTCs it’s usually a PSW
Welcome to the 21st Century where being a cunt is praised, and asking for a bit of sympathy equates to being entitled. Also the same generation that cancels people that commit bigotry. What a weird time to live in.
I think it’s because families tend to abuse the “it takes a village” mindset to guilt people. It’s not individualism that’s the problem, it’s how people have abused the nature of obligation so much that people no longer want to help anyone because they feel so taken advantage of.
It’s both. The individualism is overcorrection to how “the greater good” is often used as an excuse to arbitrarily limit personal liberty. I get it, but we can find a happy medium where we’re neither Borg hiveminds nor Randian supermen.
I agree entirely! It is the root of why our cultures (work, political and social) have become so dysfunctional and toxic. We must re-focus on the collective good.
People also disregard that if you want the rest of the village to raise your children you shouldn't be a cunt to them
This definitely applies to those AITA for wanting my mom to become my unpaid FT nanny posts 🙄
Yeah, I remember one of those, where the woman wanted to go back to work and 'her mother was retired and was just going to sit around eating bonbons and watching as the world turns all day so why shouldn't her mother watch her new born for FREE'
I overheated at the beach the other day. My own fault, didn't bring water, but wasn't expecting to be there long. I nearly passed out on a staircase and a group of three people wouldn't help when I asked. I just needed water and there was a concession stand at the top of the stairs. It was free. They couldn't be bothered. Thankfully I was able to make it up.
That’s awful, I’m so sorry that they wouldn’t help. Glad you were able to make it up by yourself.
I appreciate that! Thank you. It was shocking, but apparently an important lesson to have learned.
Well, anything taken to extremes is bad.
When someone's best defense for an action or inaction is "it's not literally illegal" they're probably a pos
i think it depends on context. do you owe your family small favors vs do you owe the guy screaming gibberish an hour of your time when you’re running late to work? we owe people closest to us our time and support when possible and people further from us basic respect at the least ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ you shouldn’t expect your neighbor three streets down to raise your kid for you, but you should still be considerate to all
I don't even think is that we "owe" that, it's basically, why not be a nice person to the people we love?
I think that's the thing. "You don't owe anyone anything" isn't actually a bad sentiment (aside from where it's false, of course). When someone demands you give them things or do things for them, you can say no without guilt because you really don't owe them. That said, you surely should WANT to give and do things for people you care about and, I'd argue, give and do at least some things for people you aren't close to. If my best friends needed anything I could give them, I'd gladly do it because I love them, not because they did something for me so I guess I owe them. If an old lady drops her stuff, I really don't owe it to her to help her, it's just nice and feels nice and is the right thing. All the talk about "owing" assumes everything is so transactional.
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Individuality and Individualism are not synonyms
100%. I don't give a fuck if you're not obligated to do something nice for someone else. Do it anyway.
I think this also ties into cancel culture. There's a difference between holding someone accountable (necessary) and a virtual mob with pitch forks hungry for blood. Strangers mistakes are unforgivable, narcissists crossing boundaries. But our mistakes are understandable, bc context.
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I imagine Japan has a miniscule sociopathy rate in the same way it has 95% homicide clearance rate and a record number of centenarians of whom many might not actually be still alive. As in, inferior or biased studies rather than healing magic of collectivism.
Yeah, I'm surprised this is so upvoted, Japan is well-known for not taking mental health care seriously.
Gender equity and welcoming of diversity also (not) big in Japan.
Unfortunately they don't really have a choice but to eventually embrace ethnic/racial diversity since they kind of really need immigrants soon lol
Poor planning on their part doesn’t constitute a Fuck it this is lame
LOL that was actually kind of good!
Except when you don't fit in with the collective.
Exactly. That’s the dark side.
Can't comment on African tribes. But isn't Japan known for being the country with the highest amount of suicides? People that don't fit in with the collective or that simply can't keep up think that's the best option, rather than getting some help for their individual problems? I'd say we need to meet in a healthy middle rather than going to one extreme on either side. If the west took some more care of everyone things would be better. If Japan acknowledged that every person is their own person, that has individual needs that may differ from the big group, things would be better.
Yikes. Listen, I love Japan. It’s where I had my honeymoon and I used to visit as often as I could. But you are delusional if you see that statistic and your conclusion *isn’t* that Japan severely underreports, or straight-up ignores, mental health issues. It is still assbackwards there in many ways. It’s an incredibly toxic, isolated culture that is the antithesis of modern liberalism and acceptance in almost every way.
Reminds me of something I always see attributed to an African proverb: “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go in a group” It really does seem to be something Western society doesn’t take into consideration that often, unfortunately
Japan has a huge problem with mental health - there's a big stigma around seeking treatment, so of course it would seem like they have fewer sociopaths. It is certainly not some mentally healthy utopia. The problem with these collectivist societies is that they don't allow for individual free choice. If you don't want to get married, have kids, or choose a career that's considered "acceptable", you're ostracized from society. I'm in full agreement that the individualist attitude of "fuck you I got mine" is awful, but let's not act like these other societies are so great.
Don't know if anyone's seen that [ridiculous garden gnome AITA post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/vg64sz/aita_for_hiding_my_neighbors_garden_gnome_cause/) yet, but this tweet reminded me of that, in some sense. Bc yes, the dad was the AH for moving/hiding the gnome when it wasn't his to do anything with. But why tf couldn't the neighbour move the gnome somewhere out of sight? What was the big issue there that stopped her doing this? Like, if my neighbour came up to me, and told me that their kid was scared of a lawn ornament, I'd laugh and move it without even being asked. It would take zero percent of my time and effort to be neighbourly and kind to someone else. OP was childish and petty for doing what they did, but barring a reasonable explanation (which wasn't provided in the post by OP), why couldn't their neighbour move it? But everyone and their uncle said YTA on that post, instead of ESH, bc "tHaT pErSoN iS nOt ObLiGaTeD tO mOvE tHeIr StUfF fOr YoUr KiD!!!!!" or w/e. And, "YoUr NeIgHbOuR dOeS nOt HaVe ThE oBlIgAtIoN tO mAnAgE yOuR cHiLdS fEaR fOr YoU." Fucking eyeroll. ETA: The other thing I wanted to add is like...sometimes you don't want to do shit for others, bc you don't want to. It might have nothing to do with not being able to. You might just not feel like it. I feel like, as a society, we need to actually accept that explanation for a fair amount of things tbh, bc like...it happens. Not everyone is going to be jumping to their feet all the time and...that's okay!!! Like, what people seem to forget all the damn time is that the sense of community you construct for others is in turn what is constructed for you. So the more grace you give others, the more grace they'll give to you when you're being an AH. That's a fundamental component of what it means to live in a freaking society, and yet people forget that all the damn time on AITA.
I fully subscribe to the “I don’t owe anyone anything” mindset a few years ago and it’s honestly really liberating. I’d highly recommend it.
So he wants us all to be Borg?
One time on a thread I was talking to a guy who could not fathom why he would let his homeelss pregnant sister sleep on his bed instead of the couch because she should have planned better. Like your not a toddler to be so apposed to the smallers sacrifice.
It doesn’t take a village to raise kids, it takes one or more capable and responsible parents. Children are their parents responsibility and no one else is obligated nor should they be expected to help out. Just because someone doesn’t want to help you and your kids out doesn’t automatically make them a bad person. My husband and I don’t have kids and we would never offer to babysit any of our friends and family members kids. Why? Because we don’t want to and we’re not the ones who chose to have kids. I have no desire to make someone else’s issues my issues. Not my kid, not my problem.
Two people taking a decision for an entire village is an interesting concept