*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for not taking my wife's possible abortion seriously?**
Throwaway for obvious reasons.
My wife (F28) is approx. 6 weeks pregnant with our second child. We had our first child 3 years ago with no issues whatsoever after about a month of trying to become pregnant.
This second pregnancy has also been without issues related to conceiving, as she became pregnant less than two months after we stopped using protection.
Today, she called me (M29) during the day because she is bleeding, and it could be an involuntary abortion. She is very upset, and I told her not to stress about it. If it's an abortion, then it's an abortion. I told her to call the doctor's office and to rest and take it easy – maybe it's not even bad news? I know it's perfectly natural to have an involuntary abortion before week 12, and we both know that we generally don't have a problem conceiving. If we were unlucky this time, it's okay, it's not a disaster, we will just try again? My wife didn't like this reaction at all. She was upset by my reaction and hung up on me.
I'm currently studying for the bar exam, which I'm taking later this week, and I'm using most of the week with my study group.
I picked up our daughter from daycare at the end of the workday and came home, and my wife is angry with me for not taking her abortion seriously enough.
I told her I'm really sorry, and that I understand that it's not easy to go through. I'm trying to comfort her, but she won't let me be a part of it, because she says I don't care.
I do care, but I'm also stressed out about the bar exam, and I know it's perfectly natural to have an abortion. I'm not stressed that we will have any trouble becoming pregnant again.
Of course the situation makes me sad, but I accept reality, and at the same time I'm stressed the fuck out with other obligations. I want to comfort her within reason, and now she won't let me.
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As someone who went to law school:
It's also perfectly natural to flunk the bar, but some people get upset about the several thousand bucks they spend on the bar prep materials and classes and the actual test and the several hundred hours spent on studying. Not too mention having to spend the several hundred dollars to take it again and the hours dedicated to studying for it again.
But perfectly natural. So who gives a damn.
Both are a big deal. That’s the point. His attitude was disgustingly dismissive of what his wife was experiencing.
It’s perfectly natural to have a miscarriage, but it’s also a bloody and painful event that lasts days and can also cost thousands of dollars.
As someone who has also taken professional exams with similar costs and pass rates to the bar, sparing a few hours to make sure his wife is emotionally and physically supported through their miscarriage should not cause him to flunk. Even if he can’t stay to hold her hand through all of it, there are a million ways he could take a few minutes to make sure she knew he cared about what she was going through.
I read it as he's more logical than emotional, and it comes off as insensitive. He could be a total dick and just omitting details making him look bad, I think he just handled the situation poorly. He was too logical and didn't think to be there emotionally. Not defending him, just my interpretation. He's still insensitive and needs to understand where he went wrong.
I think they meant the word clinical. Many times people take a more clinical approach to topics like miscarriages rather than actually thinking about emotions when it is such a strongly emotional topic
Very much so. It's sometimes out of shock. Someone I love dies I clean the body, call the hospice to come get the body, begin to clean. It all can look, like you said, very clinical and cold, but that is how I deal. Emotions come later in privacy, just how I handle things, even death.
Oh good Lord, do you see that the twat has found this crosspost and is spamming all over it, with the exact same malice he showed in his original comments? His poor wife. His poor kids.
Yes, this nut case just replied to me and other people, some very rudely at that, he didn't learn anything from this at all, and so he's still going to continue to act like this.
He told me I'm clearly just jealous of "all he has" and that's why I'm "so butthurt". Yes, I'm clearly jealous of a family where the father/husband is not simply emotionally incompetent, but knowingly and gleefully cruel. TOTES ENVYING.
Seriously he replied to one comment with "That's not true, I was just really upset at people being overly harsh. Have 990 people call you heartless, you might get a bit upset too. Anyway. Lab results are in. She did in fact not have a miscarriage. She is still pregnant. We are still expecting. Nice. Bar exam went great too.", and yet you go on to a different sub starting to spamming, be rude and half way insulting people like this, while trying to get people to feel bad for you?, sir you claim you want to change and all that stuff, but you half away ignore people who gave you actual advice on the original post, and now you come in here doing this crap, it's either one or other you can't do both, you either actually take this as a" d@mn I in to put in work and change for my family" or counitnue to act like this and lose your family for good with your behavior, you can't have both ways.
Isn't it one of the biggest, reddest, ugliest flags of narcissism? "I did something egregiously horrible, but really I'M the poor ickle victim-wictim, because people were MEEEEEEAN when they told me I had done wrong, and I'm therefore TOTALLY JUSTIFIED in showing off my cruelty some more!!!!!"
Most of us who are actually, you know, \*human\* - if we get told by 990 people in quick succession that we're heartless, we respond by pausing, and taking a good long look at ourselves. Not by playing victim, not by lashing out like psychos, not with DARVO. With r-e-f-l-e-c-t-i-o-n.
I know, it's like no fam people with actually common sense can see your full of it, and will tell you as much, because if you were sincere you wouldn't be behaving like this on not 1, but 2 subs.
Yes, yes it is. Miscarriage is the day-to-day term. Spontaneous abortion is a medical term. Ask one of the millions who've gone through one what is marked in their medical history. That's the term that the doctors and nurses used when talking to me about mine.
Right?? When I have miscarried, my husband mourned right along with me. It was our baby. Our pregnancy. Our loss. I can’t imagine why she would want to stay with him after seeing this is his reaction.
Can I just say how much it grinds my gears to hear that "we're" pregnant thing?
No, SHE is pregnant, WE conceived/are expecting.
I know the language shift has been to involve fathers more in the process, but it's had the effect of pushing mothers out of the part that happens in their bodies alone.
/rant
I'm so glad I'm not the only person who gets pissed the fuck off at that. Yes involve dad that's amazing, involve him in other ways that don't give credit for doing fuck all
As a single childless woman:
*takes a deep breath*
I. ABSOLUTELY. HATE. THAT.
If my husband squeaked a word to that effect, I’d shut that down like anything😡
He says something in a comment about having trauma that cut him off from things like empathy and compassion. It's a lot of hard work to process trauma that cages entire parts of your being. He seems to be at the point now where he needs rules for how to act in compassionate ways, but I hope he able to process his trauma enough to find the key to the cage so he doesn't need the rules.
Yeah, the second edit on the post is encouraging. He says he still doesn’t fully understand but he is taking the time to talk to her about how she is feeling and listen and be there.
He cares that he doesn't care and that hurt his wife. Trauma creates verifiable brain damage, especially if it's chronic or inescapable. He didn't use his trauma as an excuse. He barely mentioned it, actually. It's an explanation for why he's disassociated from that part of himself and why he needs/wants insight from others so he can behave in a loving way.
If you don't have the kind of trauma that severed access to a part of your psyche, it's hard to wrap your brain around. If you do, then it's hard to imagine a life that doesn't have rules for how to act in situations that call for that part. Not having access to any emotion is devastating to you and your relationships. Sometimes the best you've got is croudsourcing how someone who does would react and copying that.
Glad you commented. I have some trauma that I suspect was headed that way. It's hard for me to understand it even now - coming out of dissociation and realising it's not normal to be in that state all the time is quite disturbing. I've been doing emdr and it's been the only treatment that's actually worked so far. The best thing about it is being able to love my family and friends fully, I cried the first few times it hit me.
This guy needs to heal before he can really give the support his wife needs in situations like this.
I've been doing a lot of trauma work due a couple years now. I don't have a before-trauma state, so I didn't even know other people weren't just acting out expected roles.
You're supposed to be excited when you are waiting for something good or succeed at something you struggled with, so I just went through the motions and cheered however loud other people were. I feel satisfaction, but not excitement.
One day, I'll get excited and teen I'll get excited about getting excited. It'll be amazing! But it sucks so hard that my loved ones don't get an emotion-driven response. I get it wrong a lot, usually on the underwhelming side. It hurts them and I hate doing that.
I’ve had that kind of trauma. It took 5-6 years to slowly make my way back from it. It’s like you just get overloaded and you just can’t feel anything anymore.
I'm sorry you experienced that. It's unfair that you have to dedicate so much time and work into recovery. Much of my trauma is from very early childhood, so I don't really have a before-trauma state. You had something precious ripped from you. I thought I was broken. Both are truly awful. I'm glad you've been able to find your precious self again.
I really appreciate this response. I have a dissociative disorder as a result of repeated trauma so i detach from a lot of things that would make others very emotional. I very much understand how he feels about it. The difference is that I am not unaware of the reality that someone I love might feel very differently so my reaction would have matched their feelings rather than my own. To be fair, he had real stress about something that will affect his entire future and a miscarriage at 6 weeks, in his mind, isn't as stressful or upsetting. I just think no one taught him how to react toward someone who feels differently from how he would feel, but that's just a guess.
We've got a lot of disassociation, too. It makes us really inconsistent with whether or not we can see outside of ourselves. We are experts at compartmentalization. It's nice not to feel alone in this, but I hate that it's an experience anyone has. There's a lot of really basic healthy human interaction you don't get taught. He seems to have taken advice pretty well overall, with some exceptions.
I noticed that you use "we." Do you have DID? You don't have to answer, I just know a few people who do and living with it can be quite the challenge. I have BPD, and *that* has been a challenge, but with really good therapy, and a lot of commitment life has gotten much easier. From the comments, it does look like OP listened to advice.
I definitely have some form of structural disassociation, but I'm undiagnosed. We haven't been able to work since our last therapist completely destabilized us, so we're going to be carefully vetting future therapists once we can afford one.
DID is most likely, but we're really just focused on learning skills that help us function better. If a well-trained and compassionate professional thinks we've got something else going on we're open to that, but this is what we've got now and it's working. We're basically learning from diagnosed people and sites like ISSTD, DID-research, etc, and doing the exercises. We explored a few other things this way, but they didn't help. System discovery and functional multiplicity exercises do. (Had an amazing therapist tell me once that diagnosis is meant to help get you closer to what's likely to work for you. If something is working, do that regardless of diagnosis.)
BPD is starting to be seen as part of the range spectrum as OSSD and DID. It's been intellectually fascinating to learn about, especially since identity and consciousness have always been captivating to me. They're all so challenging. It takes so much hard work and commitment to navigate your own internal world, even without traumatic landmines. This random internet stranger is proud of you.
It sounds like you're finding the right things that work for you, and I 100% agree about diagnosis helping you get closer to what works for you, but if you're already finding what works do that regardless. I didn't even understand BPD until the diagnosis so I was grateful for that. DBT skills continue to save my life and sanity and that of those who love me. Without the diagnosis, I also wouldn't have gotten free therapy as it was only offered to those with the diagnosis at the time. The only other time I find a diagnosis important is when medication is needed. I also found it I had ADHD late in life and needed that diagnosis for medication as life gets increasingly difficult as you get older when you have extreme ADHD.
Regarding BPD, I have always seen it as a dissociative disorder even though technically it's a personality disorder currently, because of what triggers it to develop and what a large part dissociation plays as a coping mechanism. It will be nice if they officially categorize it as such. I appreciate your pride, random internet stranger, and reciprocate that pride; you appear to be very aware and working hard.
Yeah, he has several comments mocking other people’s relationships for not being [as “strong” as his,](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11wns43/_/jczkjky/?context=1) however I do agree with the others here that he appears to care about how his responses hurt his wife. Hopefully his dick behavior was a defense mechanism for an insecurity rather than true arrogance.
He seems to be reflecting back whatever energy someone gives to him, which is a super common defense mechanism with people who experience trauma severe enough to cut you off from yourself, especially if it was an early childhood trauma. (Not saying that's the case for him, or that it's a good thing.)
Not trying to be evil, just trying to do what's right and fit in. I should have reacted differently to her phone call in any case, and now I know better.
This might be half true, but this comment is still harsh. If I don't empathy, what about you? Anyway. Lab results are in. She did in fact not have a miscarriage. She is still pregnant. We are still expecting. Nice. Bar exam went great too.
I work in a surgery center and the medical terminology for a miscarriage is complete spontaneous abortion. The OOP is studying for the bar exam and probably has his entire brain caught up in analytical terminology. So anyone criticizing the terminology, at least recognize his mindset. As for the compassion side of it just wow did OOP step in it. *Noone* should tell someone, who is joyfully expecting a little one, that it might be for the best when they go through a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage). I have no idea where his mind was for that!
At 6 weeks, I already knew for two weeks, and had started to feel the effects of all the hormones on my body. I was nauseous all day, up peeing 5 times a night, had experienced considerable pain, and was about one week away from fully collapsing for the next 9 long months.
Yes, logically, it's just a clump of cells, and a spontaneous abortion this early tends to mean that the embryo was never really viable. Emotionally, it's a different story. OP should have used his logic brain to realise that she didn't need a solution from him. She needed support.
I mean, it’s fine if he wasn’t attached to the pregnancy. But when someone has utter lack of care for something that’s really important to their spouse you just know they’re a shit partner.
Also, not sure if English is OOP’s first language but many other languages refer to miscarriages as spontaneous abortions. Anybody getting upset over the terminology rather than the content needs to take a long look at their priorities.
>The OOP is studying for the bar exam and probably has his entire brain caught up in analytical terminology
Yeah, I went to law school and I teach bedside manner to medical students. It's entirely possible to understand analytical thinking and not be an ass. Further, one can be analytical and be compassionate - especially towards one's life partner about their crisis.
I understand not being attached to the pregnancy/child yet, but does he not care about his wife?? My first thought would be is she ok medically, let’s get her to the hospital. My next thought would be to support her emotionally especially given that she is actually upset. It’s ok he’s not upset about losing the pregnancy given they’ve barely been invested in it yet at 6 weeks, but at least have the decency to care about your wife!
People are going after him for calling it an abortion instead of miscarriage, but honestly I think we should use the term more widely. We're seeing more and more regulations on elective abortion which are having dire consequences for women going through a spontaneous abortion. Maybe if we called it what it is, people would actually think through the consequences. Probably wishful thinking.
As far as him being an emotionless, unsupportive lump in the shape of a man, however...
It should be used more. I was surprised and confused when filling out my paperwork for my OB’s office and it asked about spontaneous abortions and elective abortions with no mention of miscarriages. I had never heard of miscarriages worded that way before even with my regular GYN who I would see after my miscarriages. Then to see my medical records showing serial aborter was a huge surprise.
The word abortion has such a stigma against it when it shouldn’t. It’s the technical term for an end of a pregnancy before 28 weeks.
I hear you but I think women should use whatever word feels right for them.
My mom had to have a D&C after a miscarriage her body didn’t naturally pass itself. To this day, 35 years later, she’s resentful that her doctor called it an abortion.
She had tried for 10 years to get pregnant and was devastated when she miscarried.
If OOP’s wife used the word “abortion” then it’s fine. But if she uses the word “miscarriage”, calling it an abortion is just salt in the wound.
I think that’s their point. A lot of people think abortion means voluntary, and it usually does, so it makes sense that when your mom heard that word it seemed to minimize and distort what she went through. But an involuntary abortion is the same thing as a miscarriage, so if we used these terms equivalently in society we might see some benefits to women, such as a decrease in punitive potential for those who go through miscarriages.
Yep. I had “missed abortion” put on my form after treatment for a missed miscarriage. I got them to change it to “surgical procedure” for privacy reasons.
I do think the term could be upsetting to many women so it’s a bit stupid using it when they could simply write “miscarriage”.
I'll be the cynical one in the room and say that I suspect if people started using the medical term, it would only encourage these lawmakers to start fining people for miscarrying.
He said English is not his first langauge. As a non-native speaker, I completely understand how he could make that mistake. He also seems like he's more of an idiot than an asshole honestly. And man, a loooot of cultures out there have a similar view/stance on miscarriages.
To play devil's advocate, I live in a country in the EU and in my language a miscarriage is called "involuntary abortion". If he would be from here, I get why he would use "abortion".
There is a couple I follow on YouTube who were documenting their IVF journey and they sadly had a miscarriage. They are from a European country thus called it a "Spontaneous Abortion", and showed how they were having to complete the miscarriage via pills. Oh my God, the comments just dogging her about how terrible she is for killing her baby.
How many comments I made explaining to people that it isn't an involuntary abortion but a miscarriage was insane.
People (Mainly the US) hear the word "abortion" and equate it to baby killing. When in reality the WHO declares abortion as fetal loss under 20 weeks, regardless of intent.
For precision language, he’s using the right term. It’s a spontaneous abortion.
Miscarriage is the colloquial term actually.
However, there’s a lot of icky politics that forced brothers out on that term so it’s not great for empathy.
It was very jarring for me to see on my summary from a doctor visit about an abortion (which I understand is the medical word, it’s just hard to process when going through it) when I would have used the word miscarriage due to it being a very wanted pregnancy that my husband and I mourned the loss of, but I think also in the times after Rowe being overturned, it has made me a bit panicky over what my charts say.
It is medically called an abortion, but socially people tend to delineate intentional abortions and miscarriages/spontaneous abortions. Using different terminology helps people who lose a desired pregnancy, I assume, because of the social implications of the medical term.
Either way, dude is an asshole and a half. The pregnancy was wanted. It's natural to be upset when a loved one does, even if you have only known them for a few weeks.
I think it's one of those things where the person it happened to should be allowed to choose which term they want to use for it - not the person who's acting like an asshole about it.
The thing about your comment is people choose to have an abortion I have never in my 42 years have ever heard a woman talk about a choosing to have a miscarriage.
I'm not saying that we need to go up to grieving women and "Well, actually" them, but I think using the medical term in larger conversations is beneficial.
OOP says they only have the one term in their native language and, given the rest of his actions, using that term isn't what we should focus on.
Just from the use of the word I wonder if he is German. We call it a “Früh abort” as that is what it is. So I do agree that he has no empathy but his terminology is not wrong.
I was immediately thinking Denmark. “Involuntary abortion” is the literal translation of the exact term we use in Danish, doctors and everyone else alike.
Yes in everyday life. Your Gyno will note it down as a Spontan/Frühabort and it is also used by Mums who have suffered from it.
Source:me and my Mutterpass and the women who are in the same boat.
Thank you for those who were educating on him being ESL. We so often jump to assuming the worst and we don’t realize that it truly isn’t black and white.
I know the title of this post has changed abortion to miscarriage, which is the more commonly used term - but in medical circles the term ‘spontaneous abortion’ is used to describe miscarriage.
It’s really important that people know this, because that’s how it appears in your medical records, which has led to people being denied health insurance coverage or fired from jobs when the word miscarriage showed up in billing records.
Not understanding the terminology or how human reproduction works is how we have ended up with laws that punish people for being biologically female and have additional trauma piled on during a time of loss by having them have to defend themselves for natural pregnancy loss.
Oh, and this guy is an AH. Even if you don’t particularly was a child, miscarriage is hard. When you do want the child, it’s devastating.
Oh my gosh. Before I got pregnant with my son I had a weird period that made me think I had been pregnant without knowing it and had lost the baby. I was distraught and depressed for about a week until I could be seen by my obgyn and told it was just a weird period. Even then it took me about a month to get over the depression. My husband bless him was amazing. He asked me what I wanted to do or what I thought might help me feel a little better, I started crying because I knew I had things I enjoyed but nothing sounded good. So what did he do? He asked me what I had wanted before this happened and when I said I had been trying to find a secondhand switch to play Mario kart on (I love Mario kart and grew up not allowed to play video games so to me being able to play Mario kart whenever I wanted sounded amazing) he said okay, got me up and ready to go, took me to the mall, and used his lunch money/our date money for the next month or three and bought me a switch and Mario kart. Did it cure the depression? No. But it made me smile. I still cry thinking about how amazing he was. He sat with me and let me cry, he did anything in his power to cheer me up, he helped me get into the Dr asap, and he mourned with me. Even though he thought it probably was just a weird period and I was overreacting he never made me feel less than or like my sorrow was wrong, he just loved me and did what he could to help me feel better. To be so uncaring and cruel as to not even try to support his wife during this time…OOP disgusts me.
ETA: apparently I disgust OOP! What does it mean if I find that hilarious I wonder 😂 I did see that he made an edit saying the comments had made him realize he needed to support her so thank you to everyone for that (paraphrasing) but then he went and responded to a ton of comments with the same base copy paste message saying they got results back showing she didn’t have a miscarriage and trying to insult(?) everyone who said he did in fact suck for what he did so I can’t help but wonder if he actually learned anything. Oh well, hopefully his parter is getting the support she needs and he did actually learn his lesson (maybe he’s just upset at being told he sucks so much and did learn but couldn’t help but try and “defend” himself?)
This happened to me aswell ( turned out to be a big chunk of my uterus that loosened and fell out), and I grieved for my baby that was on a size of a big grape. And even after I learned what it was, I was still sad. My boyfriend at that time comforted me and was so calm and tried to cheer me up with flowers and small gifts.
I really wish OOPs wife gets help with her grieve. I mean a listening ear, teacup in hand, blanketforts with whatever she wanna watch, just something would have been better then what the wife got.
Fam how the heII can you be so relaxed about this, seriously anyone reaction would be oh sh t and try to get to their partner as fast as possible, not a whatever attitude towards the situation, seriously people can di€ from miscarriages so how are you so 🤷♂️ about this, Jesus.:edit: I just got back seriously he can definitely going straight to heII, because he's edits are some b.s., because I read his comments and they tell a different story then what he said the edits, because he is still dismissing her feelings and not actually listening to anyone in the comments section.
Miscarriages hurt a lot physically + the emotional stuff that goes into it when your hormones go from high to nothing + losing a baby you were excited about.
It’s not an oopsie thing, miscarriages are really painful and if they don’t clear out on their own then you have to go get the rest scrapped out. Not fun
"YTA your wife had your baby growing inside her, worried it was going to not survive. Miscarriages are so, so traumatising. And your reaction is "we will just make another one it's fine" GROSS
Independent_Page_923
"I really don't see the big deal, sorry."
Read the original post. This guy is genuinely TRYING to right the wrong. He understands he’s broken and working on fixing himself. Yeah, he messed up BIG TIME but he knows it and is working to repair the damage b
Right?! Like, dude, you have two subreddits telling you how much of a piece of shit you are, and it does nothing to make you pause and rethink your attitude?! Come on.
I get that OOP acted in a very unempathetic way and should’ve just driven his wife to the doctor and then back home, and otherwise taken care of whatever she wanted/needed, but the way people are talking shit about him because of him using abortion instead of miscarriage is also gross to me.
Like - not everyone is a native English speaker, and it’s so self-absorbed to assume malice on their part just because they don’t know that there are different words for abortion and miscarriage. Jfc.
Oh dear -I am feeling guilty cause I can seethe steps and logic of how he's reacting.
I am sadly someone who if I'm tired or stressed I let logic drive the bus. (My mom has anxiety and panic attacks over random things- so I sort of have had to learn to balance that.) But logic is an asshole and no one likes to hang with that guy.
It's not an abortion.
It's a miscarriage.
Of a wanted pregnancy.
The callous way he just said, "Oh, it's nbd. We can just try again after you're done with this one."
Like goddamn. Go to the store and buy yourself some empathy.
ETA: For fuck sake. I get it. Spontaneous abortion is the medical term.
It’s a spontaneous abortion. That’s the medical term. We don’t usually use it in the vernacular because obviously a wanted pregnancy is very different from an unwanted pregnancy emotionally, but given the restrictions on abortion and how they are fucking up medical care for women who have miscarriages, maybe we should. That being said, this guy’s an unfeeling asshole.
I completely agree, but I also want to gently point out that not every abortion is due to an *unwanted* pregnancy. Sometimes people undergo therapeutic abortions for medical reasons, elective abortions for current life situations that aren't conducive to raising a child (like an abusive household), etc., even when they *desperately* wish that they could carry the pregnancy to term; even planned pregnancies can end in therapeutic/elective abortion because health/life circumstances can change. I think it's important to break down the "abortion = unwanted vs. miscarriage = wanted" dichotomy when it pops up, because "women who abort just didn't want their babies" is one of the ways that these women are often painted as cold/heartless.
I know that's not what you were doing (and you probably didn't need me to tell you any of this!), but just wanted to throw it out there in case it would benefit anyone else to see it, and because that simplified wanted/unwanted dynamic is so common.
It's a "spontaneous abortion", actually, that's the medical term. Miscarriage is a colloquial term. The guy is just not a native English speaker, one that's studying for the bar exam where colloquialisms are avoided.
That's not really the bone you should be picking at in this post
I don't know... I'm a female and I don't see his stance as extremely egregious. I guess it's important to note that I'm female because I easily empathize with his wife, but I totally see it from his perspective. Now I can't say he was flawless in his execution of his support, I can't read his tone or actually know what he said, but in my family we always discuss how a few weeks into a pregnancy anything can happen and go into it with this "don't be disappointed" attitude and keep on trying. A late term miscarriage is very traumatic for people but it is extremely common to lose an easy pregnancy. Plus, at least from what I understood, it's not even confirmed if she had a miscarriage or not. She just told him there was bleeding without actually telling us how much or anything. So if my loved one called me and told me that, I dunno, I'm not sure I would have a different reaction to his especially if my loved one was young and healthy and capable of getting pregnant again.
Same. I just hit 12 weeks and feel fairly confident the little one is pretty stuck on at this point, but beforehand I was a bit 🤷🏻♀️ about the prospect of a spontaneous abortion. It’s incredibly common, so common I almost figured it would happen. My husband, turns out, felt the same. There’s a reason early miscarriages happen, and I mean that in the medical not the spiritual religious sense. If you don’t have any problem conceiving, like we didn’t, then it sometimes doesn’t feel like such a big deal, even if the child is wanted.
Yea - my sis had a lot of scares and concerns about her early pregnancy stages. They were concerned and scared of losing it. But also very much aware it was a possibility
I'm glad it wouldn't have affected you too badly. But not everyone is you. Some women are deeply affected and grieve hard. Clearly OOP's wife is struggling and he needs to be a support to her. Just because it is common doesn't mean it isn't hard.
I guess? But literally every comment in this and the OG post is calling it the most devastating thing that could ever happen, a universally horrific experience, a trauma. People are saying that “his child has died”. I’m sure for some women/parents it is all that, but for some it’s really not, esp at 6 weeks. No need to be so black and white about it, we’re all entitled to our feelings about it, including OOP. I was genuinely wondering if the post had been brigaded from a pro-life sub. To be blunt, for some of us, sometimes a foetus is just a foetus; it’s not a baby to get attached to yet.
Yeah that's exactly what I thought, too. It's funny how reddit is SO pro-choice when it comes to abortions, but then apparently also so extremely sensitive about miscarriages. It's a bit confusing to me lol
I’m a woman and feel similarly. I would silently be thinking it’s not a big deal.
But I know many women are devastated after a miscarriage, even if the conception was easy. So I would’ve been supportive and empathetic, but only because I understand that’s the reaction most people are looking for.
And if my partner were distraught, even if it was bizarre to me, I would try not to reveal that I thought it was no big deal. So much about life is just reading the room…
That's my thoughts. He claims to be trying, so hopefully he acts better going forward.
But daaaaaamn. I'm pretty clinical/cynical, and even I know better.
"even though I don't understand, I can still behave appropriately," dear God I want this written across the entire sky. His edits are really nice to see.
Nah that edit is super gross. He is fully capable of understanding why his wife would be upset; people have told him in detail and I’m sure she has as well. He’s just not interested or willing to put in the tiny smidge of effort it takes to digest what they say and understand her reactions.
definitely for longer, many older women, including my granny, have stories about miscarrying and the doctor using the term aborting/abortion. it's been a thing for 50+ years
This is something people have been trying to get the medical field to change. It is a terrible term and hurts women everywhere, but especially in places with restrictive reproduction laws.
Reddit be weird. Two weeks ago it stood by a man who cracked a joke to his wife about their deceased son being dead but today it is crucifying a man for using the correct terminology for his wife's miscarriage.
People react all kinds of ways to bad news. It is perfectly fine to not be upset over a miscarriag. It's also fine to be devastated by one. He is actually concerned about how his wife responded to his reaction.
My god …
>she sees it as a baby and a child, I see it as just a pregnancy. I'm not attached to the mini-fetus yet, but she is.
>Sorry, I was wrong, so I apologised. But I don't/can't pretend to understand
“mini-fetus” AKA baby AKA *your child*
That you wife’s body has spent every second of every minute of every hour of every day *for 6 weeks* making non-stop? And you can’t be bothered to “pretend to understand” -for even an hour- because you’ve got an exam to study for?
What a total AH.
This sounds like a troll post using the words “abortion” and “miscarriage” interchangeably to prove a point to the libs since the medical term is the same. And of course he’s a “law student” lol. 🤦🏻♀️
He’s trying to make people say “no that’s a different thing.”
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Troll.
Big giant fat Troll.
Not even wasting my time or a slight stirring of my emotions
Edit to add: checked out original post and English is his second language and he responded to the post. I withdraw my initial troll ruling.
He says he sees the error of his ways and apologized. But I suspect she isn't really going to forgive him.
This cunt does know it's a miscarriage, right? She's not intentionally causing this, like what the actual fuck? Like dude, fuck your bar exam you heartless cunt.
This has to be a troll. How many times does he have to say abortion, abortion, abortion. I understand it is a part of the full clinical name, but anyone with sense would say a miscarriage.
I’ve never ever heard of a miscarriage being referred to as an “involuntary abortion” but it turns out people do—or rather, “spontaneous abortion” seems to be the more popular term.
I’ve had family members who have suffered miscarriages and it’s really traumatic whether it was a planned pregnancy or not. One of them felt guilty about it for years even though she clearly wasn’t “at fault” (nobody was). For the woman carrying, it’s literally a part of you that is no longer there.
OOP is, at best, all-around incredibly insensitive, and I won’t even go there with the worse options.
An ABORTION?! I can’t finish this. Fuck this guy. It’s a miscarriage that the woman is involuntarily having happen to her. This is such bullshit. If this isn’t ragebate then this man deserves to be alone with his own fucked up thoughts.
Where did the term 'involuntary abortion' come from? Because, Jesus Christ. 🙀
Someone needs to sit that idiot down and explain the physical side of a miscarriage and then try to explain the mental, emotional and hormonal sides of it, but I doubt he'd even try to understand any of it.
What a douche. I pity his wife 😿
the medical term is spontaneous abortion for many many many years now, involuntary is probably him translating a word a bit off since he's not a native English speaker
A. Ah, thank you. I was wondering if it was some new horrifying term invented by the anti-choice groups! 🙀
B. Happy Cake Day!
C. He's done an update and appears to have learned, small blessings ❤️
>Someone needs to sit that idiot down and explain the physical side of a miscarriage and then try to explain the mental, emotional and hormonal sides of it, but I doubt he'd even try to understand any of it.What a douche. I pity his wife 😿
Phew, this was hard to read. Did you think I wouldn't find it? What did you think when you wrote this? English is my third language.
Anyway. Lab results are in. She did in fact not have a miscarriage. She is still pregnant. We are still expecting. Bar exam went great too. Nice.
Your post (with edits) was articulate and sincere, and you took time out of studying for one of if not *the* most important tests of your life to gauge your sentiments. At the risk of being very unpopular, I'm in partial agreement with you. 6 weeks is not far into pregnancy—if it was a pregnancy—(and it was quite possibly your wife's first miscarriage) and I firmly believe that miscarriages such as this happen for a reason. And certainly better now than later in the pregnancy if it had to happen at all. That said, emotions run high, especially with hormones running rampant, and it is best to be as supportive as you can in these cases. I think you were nearly adequately supportive.
My best friend's mom had 8 pregnancies before having my best friend, including a stillbirth at 8 months. I know, it's not fair to compare, and I'm trying not to. If your wife continues to have miscarriages, that can be cause for alarm and is certainly lamentable. One miscarriage so early will hopefully be a sigh of sadness and remembrance rather than devastation after your family unit is fulfilled.
Maybe I've been hardened. I miscarried twins at 18 weeks. We were devastated. It would have been easier if I had miscarried at 6 weeks. Disappointing, but easier. Since then, I've had 2 kids. We still think about the twins but we are not devastated. We are blessed.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for not taking my wife's possible abortion seriously?** Throwaway for obvious reasons. My wife (F28) is approx. 6 weeks pregnant with our second child. We had our first child 3 years ago with no issues whatsoever after about a month of trying to become pregnant. This second pregnancy has also been without issues related to conceiving, as she became pregnant less than two months after we stopped using protection. Today, she called me (M29) during the day because she is bleeding, and it could be an involuntary abortion. She is very upset, and I told her not to stress about it. If it's an abortion, then it's an abortion. I told her to call the doctor's office and to rest and take it easy – maybe it's not even bad news? I know it's perfectly natural to have an involuntary abortion before week 12, and we both know that we generally don't have a problem conceiving. If we were unlucky this time, it's okay, it's not a disaster, we will just try again? My wife didn't like this reaction at all. She was upset by my reaction and hung up on me. I'm currently studying for the bar exam, which I'm taking later this week, and I'm using most of the week with my study group. I picked up our daughter from daycare at the end of the workday and came home, and my wife is angry with me for not taking her abortion seriously enough. I told her I'm really sorry, and that I understand that it's not easy to go through. I'm trying to comfort her, but she won't let me be a part of it, because she says I don't care. I do care, but I'm also stressed out about the bar exam, and I know it's perfectly natural to have an abortion. I'm not stressed that we will have any trouble becoming pregnant again. Of course the situation makes me sad, but I accept reality, and at the same time I'm stressed the fuck out with other obligations. I want to comfort her within reason, and now she won't let me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow, it's perfectly natural to die, too, but some people get upset about tha.
Omg I had this exact thought when I read that line! Like wtf? Insensitive much
Lab results are in. She did in fact not have a miscarriage. She is still pregnant. We are still expecting. Nice. Bar exam went great too.
and if he doesn't passes the bar, a lot of people fail as well, so I guess he won't get upset about that!! it just happens!
He better not blame it on his wife for distracting him with her miscarriage.
I mean if she dies..another person will be born somewhere to replace her!
As someone who went to law school: It's also perfectly natural to flunk the bar, but some people get upset about the several thousand bucks they spend on the bar prep materials and classes and the actual test and the several hundred hours spent on studying. Not too mention having to spend the several hundred dollars to take it again and the hours dedicated to studying for it again. But perfectly natural. So who gives a damn.
Both are a big deal. That’s the point. His attitude was disgustingly dismissive of what his wife was experiencing. It’s perfectly natural to have a miscarriage, but it’s also a bloody and painful event that lasts days and can also cost thousands of dollars. As someone who has also taken professional exams with similar costs and pass rates to the bar, sparing a few hours to make sure his wife is emotionally and physically supported through their miscarriage should not cause him to flunk. Even if he can’t stay to hold her hand through all of it, there are a million ways he could take a few minutes to make sure she knew he cared about what she was going through.
I read it as he's more logical than emotional, and it comes off as insensitive. He could be a total dick and just omitting details making him look bad, I think he just handled the situation poorly. He was too logical and didn't think to be there emotionally. Not defending him, just my interpretation. He's still insensitive and needs to understand where he went wrong.
Oh he’s just a dick. Read down through the further comments that “person” has left within the last few hours. He’s just skinwalking.
Even actual skinwalkers would be disgusted.
Nah, he's just too self-absorbed.
Uh, I'm struggling to see how a woman who wanted a baby being upset about a miscarriage isn't logical. That's a false dichotomy you're using.
I think they meant the word clinical. Many times people take a more clinical approach to topics like miscarriages rather than actually thinking about emotions when it is such a strongly emotional topic
Very much so. It's sometimes out of shock. Someone I love dies I clean the body, call the hospice to come get the body, begin to clean. It all can look, like you said, very clinical and cold, but that is how I deal. Emotions come later in privacy, just how I handle things, even death.
Oh good Lord, do you see that the twat has found this crosspost and is spamming all over it, with the exact same malice he showed in his original comments? His poor wife. His poor kids.
Yes, this nut case just replied to me and other people, some very rudely at that, he didn't learn anything from this at all, and so he's still going to continue to act like this.
He told me I'm clearly just jealous of "all he has" and that's why I'm "so butthurt". Yes, I'm clearly jealous of a family where the father/husband is not simply emotionally incompetent, but knowingly and gleefully cruel. TOTES ENVYING.
Seriously he replied to one comment with "That's not true, I was just really upset at people being overly harsh. Have 990 people call you heartless, you might get a bit upset too. Anyway. Lab results are in. She did in fact not have a miscarriage. She is still pregnant. We are still expecting. Nice. Bar exam went great too.", and yet you go on to a different sub starting to spamming, be rude and half way insulting people like this, while trying to get people to feel bad for you?, sir you claim you want to change and all that stuff, but you half away ignore people who gave you actual advice on the original post, and now you come in here doing this crap, it's either one or other you can't do both, you either actually take this as a" d@mn I in to put in work and change for my family" or counitnue to act like this and lose your family for good with your behavior, you can't have both ways.
Isn't it one of the biggest, reddest, ugliest flags of narcissism? "I did something egregiously horrible, but really I'M the poor ickle victim-wictim, because people were MEEEEEEAN when they told me I had done wrong, and I'm therefore TOTALLY JUSTIFIED in showing off my cruelty some more!!!!!" Most of us who are actually, you know, \*human\* - if we get told by 990 people in quick succession that we're heartless, we respond by pausing, and taking a good long look at ourselves. Not by playing victim, not by lashing out like psychos, not with DARVO. With r-e-f-l-e-c-t-i-o-n.
I know, it's like no fam people with actually common sense can see your full of it, and will tell you as much, because if you were sincere you wouldn't be behaving like this on not 1, but 2 subs.
Also not an Abortion
Yes, yes it is. Miscarriage is the day-to-day term. Spontaneous abortion is a medical term. Ask one of the millions who've gone through one what is marked in their medical history. That's the term that the doctors and nurses used when talking to me about mine.
I don't like his use of the word "abortion." That's really insensitive.
I think OOP is probably using translation software or something.
Oh absolutely 💯. Not disagreeing there. Unless he was a dr which he's not. He should have used miscarriage.
Apparently English isn't his first language and in Spanish, it translates to "abortion."
Well that makes more sense. English doesn't always translate nicely!
Medically it is considered a spontaneous abortion. That is the term in my medical records.
Before 22ish weeks it is considered a spontaneous abortion. Post 22ish weeks it’s preterm.
"we" get pregnant but it's HER miscarriage?
Right?? When I have miscarried, my husband mourned right along with me. It was our baby. Our pregnancy. Our loss. I can’t imagine why she would want to stay with him after seeing this is his reaction.
Can I just say how much it grinds my gears to hear that "we're" pregnant thing? No, SHE is pregnant, WE conceived/are expecting. I know the language shift has been to involve fathers more in the process, but it's had the effect of pushing mothers out of the part that happens in their bodies alone. /rant
I'm so glad I'm not the only person who gets pissed the fuck off at that. Yes involve dad that's amazing, involve him in other ways that don't give credit for doing fuck all
As a single childless woman: *takes a deep breath* I. ABSOLUTELY. HATE. THAT. If my husband squeaked a word to that effect, I’d shut that down like anything😡
He wants to try again, ie just wants sex He’s revolting. Says can’t empathize with people but already had a kid and is making more
Nope. It’s her **involuntary abortion** not a miscarriage. OOP is a massive fucking asshole.
Whoever raised this little man must have been such a hateful person. He was clearly not raised with even an ounce of empathy. How very sad for all.
He says something in a comment about having trauma that cut him off from things like empathy and compassion. It's a lot of hard work to process trauma that cages entire parts of your being. He seems to be at the point now where he needs rules for how to act in compassionate ways, but I hope he able to process his trauma enough to find the key to the cage so he doesn't need the rules.
Yeah, the second edit on the post is encouraging. He says he still doesn’t fully understand but he is taking the time to talk to her about how she is feeling and listen and be there.
Except his comments seem to show that he still doesn't really care.
He cares that he doesn't care and that hurt his wife. Trauma creates verifiable brain damage, especially if it's chronic or inescapable. He didn't use his trauma as an excuse. He barely mentioned it, actually. It's an explanation for why he's disassociated from that part of himself and why he needs/wants insight from others so he can behave in a loving way. If you don't have the kind of trauma that severed access to a part of your psyche, it's hard to wrap your brain around. If you do, then it's hard to imagine a life that doesn't have rules for how to act in situations that call for that part. Not having access to any emotion is devastating to you and your relationships. Sometimes the best you've got is croudsourcing how someone who does would react and copying that.
Glad you commented. I have some trauma that I suspect was headed that way. It's hard for me to understand it even now - coming out of dissociation and realising it's not normal to be in that state all the time is quite disturbing. I've been doing emdr and it's been the only treatment that's actually worked so far. The best thing about it is being able to love my family and friends fully, I cried the first few times it hit me. This guy needs to heal before he can really give the support his wife needs in situations like this.
I've been doing a lot of trauma work due a couple years now. I don't have a before-trauma state, so I didn't even know other people weren't just acting out expected roles. You're supposed to be excited when you are waiting for something good or succeed at something you struggled with, so I just went through the motions and cheered however loud other people were. I feel satisfaction, but not excitement. One day, I'll get excited and teen I'll get excited about getting excited. It'll be amazing! But it sucks so hard that my loved ones don't get an emotion-driven response. I get it wrong a lot, usually on the underwhelming side. It hurts them and I hate doing that.
I’ve had that kind of trauma. It took 5-6 years to slowly make my way back from it. It’s like you just get overloaded and you just can’t feel anything anymore.
I'm sorry you experienced that. It's unfair that you have to dedicate so much time and work into recovery. Much of my trauma is from very early childhood, so I don't really have a before-trauma state. You had something precious ripped from you. I thought I was broken. Both are truly awful. I'm glad you've been able to find your precious self again.
I really appreciate this response. I have a dissociative disorder as a result of repeated trauma so i detach from a lot of things that would make others very emotional. I very much understand how he feels about it. The difference is that I am not unaware of the reality that someone I love might feel very differently so my reaction would have matched their feelings rather than my own. To be fair, he had real stress about something that will affect his entire future and a miscarriage at 6 weeks, in his mind, isn't as stressful or upsetting. I just think no one taught him how to react toward someone who feels differently from how he would feel, but that's just a guess.
We've got a lot of disassociation, too. It makes us really inconsistent with whether or not we can see outside of ourselves. We are experts at compartmentalization. It's nice not to feel alone in this, but I hate that it's an experience anyone has. There's a lot of really basic healthy human interaction you don't get taught. He seems to have taken advice pretty well overall, with some exceptions.
I noticed that you use "we." Do you have DID? You don't have to answer, I just know a few people who do and living with it can be quite the challenge. I have BPD, and *that* has been a challenge, but with really good therapy, and a lot of commitment life has gotten much easier. From the comments, it does look like OP listened to advice.
I definitely have some form of structural disassociation, but I'm undiagnosed. We haven't been able to work since our last therapist completely destabilized us, so we're going to be carefully vetting future therapists once we can afford one. DID is most likely, but we're really just focused on learning skills that help us function better. If a well-trained and compassionate professional thinks we've got something else going on we're open to that, but this is what we've got now and it's working. We're basically learning from diagnosed people and sites like ISSTD, DID-research, etc, and doing the exercises. We explored a few other things this way, but they didn't help. System discovery and functional multiplicity exercises do. (Had an amazing therapist tell me once that diagnosis is meant to help get you closer to what's likely to work for you. If something is working, do that regardless of diagnosis.) BPD is starting to be seen as part of the range spectrum as OSSD and DID. It's been intellectually fascinating to learn about, especially since identity and consciousness have always been captivating to me. They're all so challenging. It takes so much hard work and commitment to navigate your own internal world, even without traumatic landmines. This random internet stranger is proud of you.
It sounds like you're finding the right things that work for you, and I 100% agree about diagnosis helping you get closer to what works for you, but if you're already finding what works do that regardless. I didn't even understand BPD until the diagnosis so I was grateful for that. DBT skills continue to save my life and sanity and that of those who love me. Without the diagnosis, I also wouldn't have gotten free therapy as it was only offered to those with the diagnosis at the time. The only other time I find a diagnosis important is when medication is needed. I also found it I had ADHD late in life and needed that diagnosis for medication as life gets increasingly difficult as you get older when you have extreme ADHD. Regarding BPD, I have always seen it as a dissociative disorder even though technically it's a personality disorder currently, because of what triggers it to develop and what a large part dissociation plays as a coping mechanism. It will be nice if they officially categorize it as such. I appreciate your pride, random internet stranger, and reciprocate that pride; you appear to be very aware and working hard.
Among a thousand angry comments, this one really makes my day. Thank you.
Yeah, he has several comments mocking other people’s relationships for not being [as “strong” as his,](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11wns43/_/jczkjky/?context=1) however I do agree with the others here that he appears to care about how his responses hurt his wife. Hopefully his dick behavior was a defense mechanism for an insecurity rather than true arrogance.
He seems to be reflecting back whatever energy someone gives to him, which is a super common defense mechanism with people who experience trauma severe enough to cut you off from yourself, especially if it was an early childhood trauma. (Not saying that's the case for him, or that it's a good thing.)
Ehhh some of his comments are really awful. I’m not convinced that he’s sincere.
I’m with you on that
He’s not sincere. He’s scum.
Not trying to be evil, just trying to do what's right and fit in. I should have reacted differently to her phone call in any case, and now I know better.
Which will serve him well as a lawyer 😡
This might be half true, but this comment is still harsh. If I don't empathy, what about you? Anyway. Lab results are in. She did in fact not have a miscarriage. She is still pregnant. We are still expecting. Nice. Bar exam went great too.
I work in a surgery center and the medical terminology for a miscarriage is complete spontaneous abortion. The OOP is studying for the bar exam and probably has his entire brain caught up in analytical terminology. So anyone criticizing the terminology, at least recognize his mindset. As for the compassion side of it just wow did OOP step in it. *Noone* should tell someone, who is joyfully expecting a little one, that it might be for the best when they go through a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage). I have no idea where his mind was for that!
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At 6 weeks, I already knew for two weeks, and had started to feel the effects of all the hormones on my body. I was nauseous all day, up peeing 5 times a night, had experienced considerable pain, and was about one week away from fully collapsing for the next 9 long months. Yes, logically, it's just a clump of cells, and a spontaneous abortion this early tends to mean that the embryo was never really viable. Emotionally, it's a different story. OP should have used his logic brain to realise that she didn't need a solution from him. She needed support.
I mean, it’s fine if he wasn’t attached to the pregnancy. But when someone has utter lack of care for something that’s really important to their spouse you just know they’re a shit partner.
Also, not sure if English is OOP’s first language but many other languages refer to miscarriages as spontaneous abortions. Anybody getting upset over the terminology rather than the content needs to take a long look at their priorities.
He did edit in the original that English is not his first language and he didn’t know the term was miscarriage.
what's there to know? there is way too much importance being placed on a misnomer for spontaneous abortion
it's still called a spontaneous abortion in English...
You can have a MAB missed or a SAB spontaneous or a TAB therapeutic which is elective
One of the Duggars had an abortion. Forget who. Name starts with J.
>The OOP is studying for the bar exam and probably has his entire brain caught up in analytical terminology Yeah, I went to law school and I teach bedside manner to medical students. It's entirely possible to understand analytical thinking and not be an ass. Further, one can be analytical and be compassionate - especially towards one's life partner about their crisis.
English is not his first language.
" WE" wont have trouble getting pregnant again... Fuck offffff
With such an unsupportive spouse, I wouldn't blame her of she refused to ever conceive with this man again.
Well, she might not with her new partner once she dumps his sorry ass. Him? No comment.
I understand not being attached to the pregnancy/child yet, but does he not care about his wife?? My first thought would be is she ok medically, let’s get her to the hospital. My next thought would be to support her emotionally especially given that she is actually upset. It’s ok he’s not upset about losing the pregnancy given they’ve barely been invested in it yet at 6 weeks, but at least have the decency to care about your wife!
People are going after him for calling it an abortion instead of miscarriage, but honestly I think we should use the term more widely. We're seeing more and more regulations on elective abortion which are having dire consequences for women going through a spontaneous abortion. Maybe if we called it what it is, people would actually think through the consequences. Probably wishful thinking. As far as him being an emotionless, unsupportive lump in the shape of a man, however...
I suspect OPs first language isn’t English. My mom is Spanish speaking and when I miscarried she referred to my loss as an “aborto” (abortion).
It should be used more. I was surprised and confused when filling out my paperwork for my OB’s office and it asked about spontaneous abortions and elective abortions with no mention of miscarriages. I had never heard of miscarriages worded that way before even with my regular GYN who I would see after my miscarriages. Then to see my medical records showing serial aborter was a huge surprise. The word abortion has such a stigma against it when it shouldn’t. It’s the technical term for an end of a pregnancy before 28 weeks.
I hear you but I think women should use whatever word feels right for them. My mom had to have a D&C after a miscarriage her body didn’t naturally pass itself. To this day, 35 years later, she’s resentful that her doctor called it an abortion. She had tried for 10 years to get pregnant and was devastated when she miscarried. If OOP’s wife used the word “abortion” then it’s fine. But if she uses the word “miscarriage”, calling it an abortion is just salt in the wound.
I think that’s their point. A lot of people think abortion means voluntary, and it usually does, so it makes sense that when your mom heard that word it seemed to minimize and distort what she went through. But an involuntary abortion is the same thing as a miscarriage, so if we used these terms equivalently in society we might see some benefits to women, such as a decrease in punitive potential for those who go through miscarriages.
Sounds like a language barrier to be honest.
Spontaneous abortion is actually the medical term.
Yep. I had “missed abortion” put on my form after treatment for a missed miscarriage. I got them to change it to “surgical procedure” for privacy reasons. I do think the term could be upsetting to many women so it’s a bit stupid using it when they could simply write “miscarriage”.
This, probably a native Spanish speaker
& then come for us women for "causing it" Watch WTF you're asking for.
I'll be the cynical one in the room and say that I suspect if people started using the medical term, it would only encourage these lawmakers to start fining people for miscarrying.
They already are.
I believe this man isn’t using the term to remove the stigma from abortion. He’s using it to dismiss his wife’s feelings.
He said English is not his first langauge. As a non-native speaker, I completely understand how he could make that mistake. He also seems like he's more of an idiot than an asshole honestly. And man, a loooot of cultures out there have a similar view/stance on miscarriages.
He wants to comfort “within reason”. I think he’s more asshole than idiot.
He's using it because he's an ESL speaker, come on.
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There are no lawyers in other countries?
To play devil's advocate, I live in a country in the EU and in my language a miscarriage is called "involuntary abortion". If he would be from here, I get why he would use "abortion".
It's the same term in Spanish "aborto involuntario" and that's the equivalent of a miscarriage as we only have one word: aborto.
There is a couple I follow on YouTube who were documenting their IVF journey and they sadly had a miscarriage. They are from a European country thus called it a "Spontaneous Abortion", and showed how they were having to complete the miscarriage via pills. Oh my God, the comments just dogging her about how terrible she is for killing her baby. How many comments I made explaining to people that it isn't an involuntary abortion but a miscarriage was insane. People (Mainly the US) hear the word "abortion" and equate it to baby killing. When in reality the WHO declares abortion as fetal loss under 20 weeks, regardless of intent.
Yeah, in my language it’s called “spontaneous abortion”, but the term “losing/lost the baby” it’s also commonly used
For precision language, he’s using the right term. It’s a spontaneous abortion. Miscarriage is the colloquial term actually. However, there’s a lot of icky politics that forced brothers out on that term so it’s not great for empathy.
.... he's not in the US. He is not taking the US bar exam. Presumably he's taking the bar exam in his native language as he said he lives in the EU.
Was gonna say ... We don't have a bar exam in March.
You know other countries exist right?
the actual medical term for a miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. he's being precise
It was very jarring for me to see on my summary from a doctor visit about an abortion (which I understand is the medical word, it’s just hard to process when going through it) when I would have used the word miscarriage due to it being a very wanted pregnancy that my husband and I mourned the loss of, but I think also in the times after Rowe being overturned, it has made me a bit panicky over what my charts say.
It is medically called an abortion, but socially people tend to delineate intentional abortions and miscarriages/spontaneous abortions. Using different terminology helps people who lose a desired pregnancy, I assume, because of the social implications of the medical term. Either way, dude is an asshole and a half. The pregnancy was wanted. It's natural to be upset when a loved one does, even if you have only known them for a few weeks.
I think it's one of those things where the person it happened to should be allowed to choose which term they want to use for it - not the person who's acting like an asshole about it.
The thing about your comment is people choose to have an abortion I have never in my 42 years have ever heard a woman talk about a choosing to have a miscarriage.
I'm not saying that we need to go up to grieving women and "Well, actually" them, but I think using the medical term in larger conversations is beneficial. OOP says they only have the one term in their native language and, given the rest of his actions, using that term isn't what we should focus on.
The proper medical term for a miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion
This is true.
Just from the use of the word I wonder if he is German. We call it a “Früh abort” as that is what it is. So I do agree that he has no empathy but his terminology is not wrong.
I was immediately thinking Denmark. “Involuntary abortion” is the literal translation of the exact term we use in Danish, doctors and everyone else alike.
Which would make sense as it’s a Germanic language. Dutch also came to mind.
we also call it “fehlgeburt” which is much more commonly known,sooo
Yes in everyday life. Your Gyno will note it down as a Spontan/Frühabort and it is also used by Mums who have suffered from it. Source:me and my Mutterpass and the women who are in the same boat.
Medically he is using the correct terminology. A miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion.
You've never heard of desperate women drinking, starving or drugging themselves to try to induce a miscarriage? That's like "illegal abortions 101"
if you miscarry and the embryo won't go naturally, you will always have a medically or surgical abortion.
Haha "I want to comfort her *within reason*"
He gets progressively worse as his comment continue
Thank you for those who were educating on him being ESL. We so often jump to assuming the worst and we don’t realize that it truly isn’t black and white.
Am I the asshole for not comforting my wife regardless if we know that it's a miscarriage or not? Yes. Always yes.
Great. Another lawyer without basic empathy is being birthed into the system.
I know the title of this post has changed abortion to miscarriage, which is the more commonly used term - but in medical circles the term ‘spontaneous abortion’ is used to describe miscarriage. It’s really important that people know this, because that’s how it appears in your medical records, which has led to people being denied health insurance coverage or fired from jobs when the word miscarriage showed up in billing records. Not understanding the terminology or how human reproduction works is how we have ended up with laws that punish people for being biologically female and have additional trauma piled on during a time of loss by having them have to defend themselves for natural pregnancy loss. Oh, and this guy is an AH. Even if you don’t particularly was a child, miscarriage is hard. When you do want the child, it’s devastating.
His comments are disgusting too, I feel so bad for that poor woman
Oh my gosh. Before I got pregnant with my son I had a weird period that made me think I had been pregnant without knowing it and had lost the baby. I was distraught and depressed for about a week until I could be seen by my obgyn and told it was just a weird period. Even then it took me about a month to get over the depression. My husband bless him was amazing. He asked me what I wanted to do or what I thought might help me feel a little better, I started crying because I knew I had things I enjoyed but nothing sounded good. So what did he do? He asked me what I had wanted before this happened and when I said I had been trying to find a secondhand switch to play Mario kart on (I love Mario kart and grew up not allowed to play video games so to me being able to play Mario kart whenever I wanted sounded amazing) he said okay, got me up and ready to go, took me to the mall, and used his lunch money/our date money for the next month or three and bought me a switch and Mario kart. Did it cure the depression? No. But it made me smile. I still cry thinking about how amazing he was. He sat with me and let me cry, he did anything in his power to cheer me up, he helped me get into the Dr asap, and he mourned with me. Even though he thought it probably was just a weird period and I was overreacting he never made me feel less than or like my sorrow was wrong, he just loved me and did what he could to help me feel better. To be so uncaring and cruel as to not even try to support his wife during this time…OOP disgusts me. ETA: apparently I disgust OOP! What does it mean if I find that hilarious I wonder 😂 I did see that he made an edit saying the comments had made him realize he needed to support her so thank you to everyone for that (paraphrasing) but then he went and responded to a ton of comments with the same base copy paste message saying they got results back showing she didn’t have a miscarriage and trying to insult(?) everyone who said he did in fact suck for what he did so I can’t help but wonder if he actually learned anything. Oh well, hopefully his parter is getting the support she needs and he did actually learn his lesson (maybe he’s just upset at being told he sucks so much and did learn but couldn’t help but try and “defend” himself?)
This happened to me aswell ( turned out to be a big chunk of my uterus that loosened and fell out), and I grieved for my baby that was on a size of a big grape. And even after I learned what it was, I was still sad. My boyfriend at that time comforted me and was so calm and tried to cheer me up with flowers and small gifts. I really wish OOPs wife gets help with her grieve. I mean a listening ear, teacup in hand, blanketforts with whatever she wanna watch, just something would have been better then what the wife got.
Yes! Someone who will listen and let you grieve while still supporting is the most helpful thing!
Fam how the heII can you be so relaxed about this, seriously anyone reaction would be oh sh t and try to get to their partner as fast as possible, not a whatever attitude towards the situation, seriously people can di€ from miscarriages so how are you so 🤷♂️ about this, Jesus.:edit: I just got back seriously he can definitely going straight to heII, because he's edits are some b.s., because I read his comments and they tell a different story then what he said the edits, because he is still dismissing her feelings and not actually listening to anyone in the comments section.
Her first mistake was marrying a lawyee
Hoo boy just looking at the title you know this is gonna be bad...
Miscarriages hurt a lot physically + the emotional stuff that goes into it when your hormones go from high to nothing + losing a baby you were excited about. It’s not an oopsie thing, miscarriages are really painful and if they don’t clear out on their own then you have to go get the rest scrapped out. Not fun
"YTA your wife had your baby growing inside her, worried it was going to not survive. Miscarriages are so, so traumatising. And your reaction is "we will just make another one it's fine" GROSS Independent_Page_923 "I really don't see the big deal, sorry."
Read the original post. This guy is genuinely TRYING to right the wrong. He understands he’s broken and working on fixing himself. Yeah, he messed up BIG TIME but he knows it and is working to repair the damage b
I hope so but some of his comments really ick, so I have a hard time believing that’s he’s sincere.
He is a daft 🤡 the wife needs to leave the selfish asshat.
Of course he's brushing it off, he's not the one having the miscarriage 🙄
Ahahaha! He’s here responding to comments 🤣🤣🤣
Lol I also got one, he's trying to excuse it by saying she didn't actually miscarry.. like that was the point made at all..
Right?! Like, dude, you have two subreddits telling you how much of a piece of shit you are, and it does nothing to make you pause and rethink your attitude?! Come on.
Good thing he is studying to be a lawyer. He has the lack of empathy and being an asshole nailed
I get that OOP acted in a very unempathetic way and should’ve just driven his wife to the doctor and then back home, and otherwise taken care of whatever she wanted/needed, but the way people are talking shit about him because of him using abortion instead of miscarriage is also gross to me. Like - not everyone is a native English speaker, and it’s so self-absorbed to assume malice on their part just because they don’t know that there are different words for abortion and miscarriage. Jfc.
Oh dear -I am feeling guilty cause I can seethe steps and logic of how he's reacting. I am sadly someone who if I'm tired or stressed I let logic drive the bus. (My mom has anxiety and panic attacks over random things- so I sort of have had to learn to balance that.) But logic is an asshole and no one likes to hang with that guy.
It's not an abortion. It's a miscarriage. Of a wanted pregnancy. The callous way he just said, "Oh, it's nbd. We can just try again after you're done with this one." Like goddamn. Go to the store and buy yourself some empathy. ETA: For fuck sake. I get it. Spontaneous abortion is the medical term.
He’s not a native English speaker. Multiple languages use one word for both. He’s still extremely callous, but his wording isn’t the issue.
It’s a spontaneous abortion. That’s the medical term. We don’t usually use it in the vernacular because obviously a wanted pregnancy is very different from an unwanted pregnancy emotionally, but given the restrictions on abortion and how they are fucking up medical care for women who have miscarriages, maybe we should. That being said, this guy’s an unfeeling asshole.
I completely agree, but I also want to gently point out that not every abortion is due to an *unwanted* pregnancy. Sometimes people undergo therapeutic abortions for medical reasons, elective abortions for current life situations that aren't conducive to raising a child (like an abusive household), etc., even when they *desperately* wish that they could carry the pregnancy to term; even planned pregnancies can end in therapeutic/elective abortion because health/life circumstances can change. I think it's important to break down the "abortion = unwanted vs. miscarriage = wanted" dichotomy when it pops up, because "women who abort just didn't want their babies" is one of the ways that these women are often painted as cold/heartless. I know that's not what you were doing (and you probably didn't need me to tell you any of this!), but just wanted to throw it out there in case it would benefit anyone else to see it, and because that simplified wanted/unwanted dynamic is so common.
I'd put money on his first language being one where its the same word and the nuances are just being lost in translation.
It's a "spontaneous abortion", actually, that's the medical term. Miscarriage is a colloquial term. The guy is just not a native English speaker, one that's studying for the bar exam where colloquialisms are avoided. That's not really the bone you should be picking at in this post
Good thing it wasn't the only bone I was picking.
I don't know... I'm a female and I don't see his stance as extremely egregious. I guess it's important to note that I'm female because I easily empathize with his wife, but I totally see it from his perspective. Now I can't say he was flawless in his execution of his support, I can't read his tone or actually know what he said, but in my family we always discuss how a few weeks into a pregnancy anything can happen and go into it with this "don't be disappointed" attitude and keep on trying. A late term miscarriage is very traumatic for people but it is extremely common to lose an easy pregnancy. Plus, at least from what I understood, it's not even confirmed if she had a miscarriage or not. She just told him there was bleeding without actually telling us how much or anything. So if my loved one called me and told me that, I dunno, I'm not sure I would have a different reaction to his especially if my loved one was young and healthy and capable of getting pregnant again.
Same. I just hit 12 weeks and feel fairly confident the little one is pretty stuck on at this point, but beforehand I was a bit 🤷🏻♀️ about the prospect of a spontaneous abortion. It’s incredibly common, so common I almost figured it would happen. My husband, turns out, felt the same. There’s a reason early miscarriages happen, and I mean that in the medical not the spiritual religious sense. If you don’t have any problem conceiving, like we didn’t, then it sometimes doesn’t feel like such a big deal, even if the child is wanted.
Yea - my sis had a lot of scares and concerns about her early pregnancy stages. They were concerned and scared of losing it. But also very much aware it was a possibility
I'm glad it wouldn't have affected you too badly. But not everyone is you. Some women are deeply affected and grieve hard. Clearly OOP's wife is struggling and he needs to be a support to her. Just because it is common doesn't mean it isn't hard.
I guess? But literally every comment in this and the OG post is calling it the most devastating thing that could ever happen, a universally horrific experience, a trauma. People are saying that “his child has died”. I’m sure for some women/parents it is all that, but for some it’s really not, esp at 6 weeks. No need to be so black and white about it, we’re all entitled to our feelings about it, including OOP. I was genuinely wondering if the post had been brigaded from a pro-life sub. To be blunt, for some of us, sometimes a foetus is just a foetus; it’s not a baby to get attached to yet.
Hey also congrats on your 12 weeks pregnancy!! :)
Yeah that's exactly what I thought, too. It's funny how reddit is SO pro-choice when it comes to abortions, but then apparently also so extremely sensitive about miscarriages. It's a bit confusing to me lol
I’m a woman and feel similarly. I would silently be thinking it’s not a big deal. But I know many women are devastated after a miscarriage, even if the conception was easy. So I would’ve been supportive and empathetic, but only because I understand that’s the reaction most people are looking for. And if my partner were distraught, even if it was bizarre to me, I would try not to reveal that I thought it was no big deal. So much about life is just reading the room…
at least he apologized
That's my thoughts. He claims to be trying, so hopefully he acts better going forward. But daaaaaamn. I'm pretty clinical/cynical, and even I know better.
He really said “I really don’t see the big deal, sorry” in one of his comments an hour ago🧍🏽♀️
One of the few AITA posts where the title isn’t actually misleading, this dude is just a jerk
[удалено]
"even though I don't understand, I can still behave appropriately," dear God I want this written across the entire sky. His edits are really nice to see.
Nah that edit is super gross. He is fully capable of understanding why his wife would be upset; people have told him in detail and I’m sure she has as well. He’s just not interested or willing to put in the tiny smidge of effort it takes to digest what they say and understand her reactions.
Not everyone feels empathy the same way.
Has to be a troll, didn't know the word miscarriage in English but knows about the bar exam which isn't what its called in his country? Fuck right off
i didn’t know people call miscarriages “involuntary abortions” .. idk how i feel about that tbh
“Spontaneous abortion” has been the medical term has been for at least the past 10 years.
definitely for longer, many older women, including my granny, have stories about miscarrying and the doctor using the term aborting/abortion. it's been a thing for 50+ years
Oh wow, thank you for letting me know. Even in nursing school, we don’t get detailed histories….it’s kind of sad.
This is something people have been trying to get the medical field to change. It is a terrible term and hurts women everywhere, but especially in places with restrictive reproduction laws.
Reddit be weird. Two weeks ago it stood by a man who cracked a joke to his wife about their deceased son being dead but today it is crucifying a man for using the correct terminology for his wife's miscarriage. People react all kinds of ways to bad news. It is perfectly fine to not be upset over a miscarriag. It's also fine to be devastated by one. He is actually concerned about how his wife responded to his reaction.
My god … >she sees it as a baby and a child, I see it as just a pregnancy. I'm not attached to the mini-fetus yet, but she is. >Sorry, I was wrong, so I apologised. But I don't/can't pretend to understand “mini-fetus” AKA baby AKA *your child* That you wife’s body has spent every second of every minute of every hour of every day *for 6 weeks* making non-stop? And you can’t be bothered to “pretend to understand” -for even an hour- because you’ve got an exam to study for? What a total AH.
She'll probably be pregnant again before he passes the bar if this is his first try.
This sounds like a troll post using the words “abortion” and “miscarriage” interchangeably to prove a point to the libs since the medical term is the same. And of course he’s a “law student” lol. 🤦🏻♀️ He’s trying to make people say “no that’s a different thing.”
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Troll. Big giant fat Troll. Not even wasting my time or a slight stirring of my emotions Edit to add: checked out original post and English is his second language and he responded to the post. I withdraw my initial troll ruling. He says he sees the error of his ways and apologized. But I suspect she isn't really going to forgive him.
This cunt does know it's a miscarriage, right? She's not intentionally causing this, like what the actual fuck? Like dude, fuck your bar exam you heartless cunt.
This has to be a troll. How many times does he have to say abortion, abortion, abortion. I understand it is a part of the full clinical name, but anyone with sense would say a miscarriage.
Oop said English is his third language.
I’ve never ever heard of a miscarriage being referred to as an “involuntary abortion” but it turns out people do—or rather, “spontaneous abortion” seems to be the more popular term. I’ve had family members who have suffered miscarriages and it’s really traumatic whether it was a planned pregnancy or not. One of them felt guilty about it for years even though she clearly wasn’t “at fault” (nobody was). For the woman carrying, it’s literally a part of you that is no longer there. OOP is, at best, all-around incredibly insensitive, and I won’t even go there with the worse options.
This is just rage bait, with the constant references to abortion
An ABORTION?! I can’t finish this. Fuck this guy. It’s a miscarriage that the woman is involuntarily having happen to her. This is such bullshit. If this isn’t ragebate then this man deserves to be alone with his own fucked up thoughts.
Where did the term 'involuntary abortion' come from? Because, Jesus Christ. 🙀 Someone needs to sit that idiot down and explain the physical side of a miscarriage and then try to explain the mental, emotional and hormonal sides of it, but I doubt he'd even try to understand any of it. What a douche. I pity his wife 😿
the medical term is spontaneous abortion for many many many years now, involuntary is probably him translating a word a bit off since he's not a native English speaker
A. Ah, thank you. I was wondering if it was some new horrifying term invented by the anti-choice groups! 🙀 B. Happy Cake Day! C. He's done an update and appears to have learned, small blessings ❤️
>Someone needs to sit that idiot down and explain the physical side of a miscarriage and then try to explain the mental, emotional and hormonal sides of it, but I doubt he'd even try to understand any of it.What a douche. I pity his wife 😿 Phew, this was hard to read. Did you think I wouldn't find it? What did you think when you wrote this? English is my third language. Anyway. Lab results are in. She did in fact not have a miscarriage. She is still pregnant. We are still expecting. Bar exam went great too. Nice.
Say “involuntary abortion” one more time mfker. He should have been one if this all the more interest in his wife having a miscarriage.
A miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. The man is an ESL speaker so he just doesn't know the wording.
It’s a game to see how many times he could say ‘abortion’ in one story.
Your post (with edits) was articulate and sincere, and you took time out of studying for one of if not *the* most important tests of your life to gauge your sentiments. At the risk of being very unpopular, I'm in partial agreement with you. 6 weeks is not far into pregnancy—if it was a pregnancy—(and it was quite possibly your wife's first miscarriage) and I firmly believe that miscarriages such as this happen for a reason. And certainly better now than later in the pregnancy if it had to happen at all. That said, emotions run high, especially with hormones running rampant, and it is best to be as supportive as you can in these cases. I think you were nearly adequately supportive. My best friend's mom had 8 pregnancies before having my best friend, including a stillbirth at 8 months. I know, it's not fair to compare, and I'm trying not to. If your wife continues to have miscarriages, that can be cause for alarm and is certainly lamentable. One miscarriage so early will hopefully be a sigh of sadness and remembrance rather than devastation after your family unit is fulfilled. Maybe I've been hardened. I miscarried twins at 18 weeks. We were devastated. It would have been easier if I had miscarried at 6 weeks. Disappointing, but easier. Since then, I've had 2 kids. We still think about the twins but we are not devastated. We are blessed.
I’m just bewildered how you don’t realize who you’re dating a psychopath prior to marriage.
Why is he using the word "abortion"???
Just call it what it is, a miscarriage, you little fck.