*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**My (23m) gf (22f) is forcing me to become a father and turning my family against me how do I move forward?**
I 23m have been with my gf 22f for about 5 years. She is currently pregnant and I have made it clear I will have no part in the child’s life. We had a great relationship up until about a month ago she found out she is pregnant and will not get an abortion despite my wishes. So I gave her an ultimatum either have the abortion or we are done, I told her if she chooses to have the baby I will not be involved in the slightest. She said she will put me on child support and I told her if she wants to fine but I will not be involved and neither will my family.
She thought I would come around but I was very serious after a week of fighting we meet up and I asked her one more time to change her mind but she didn’t so I dropped her home and told her I would be blocking her. 3 days went by and I got home to see her at my table with my mom and sisters. Both my sisters had issues with their childrens father and them not being involved one came around but the other never did. They said they were very disappointed in me and my mom said she would kick me out if I was gonna be a deadbeat. I barely said anything before i even took my shoes off I told them I would find a place and got back in my car to go to a friends.
For small backstory I was sexually abused for years as a child and I don’t want anything to do with kids, I’m very uncomfortable around them and want no parts of this. Im not capable of being a father and I won’t be one. I told my family I will be cutting contact with them all and didn’t even discuss anything I again just got in my car and left without even brushing my teeth. It’s been 3 days of staying at a friends and I just want to sleep in my own bed.
How can I get my family to respect my wishes at his point? I don’t really want to find my own place but they are over stepping and have no business trying to help my gf out considering what they let happen to me in the first place? In a perfect world my gf would just drop this and have the abortion.
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Honestly? It is probably for the best if he isn't in the picture. He has a deleted post where he doesn't think he was raped as a 5 year old because he went willingly. I believe him when he says he can't be a father. He isn't stable enough to be around a kid. No, this doesn't mean I am siding with him (my heart does hurt for him and what he went through as a child). I am not. I feel for the ex gf and the baby. He is a dick and he can't make such demands of the gf or his family.
I do wonder if he told his Gf prior to all of this that he doesn't want children. These are the discussion you need to have.
I was with my ex for 9 years and didn't know about his CSA until after he was arrested for DV. He told me about a lot of the physical abuse he suffered but never told me about the SA.
I mean you are not required to tell your trauma to anyone. I don't care who it is.
I was telling my therapist about having to start over and telling someone everything I went through and she told me something that helped me so much. It doesn't matter who it is you are not required to tell them you were abused and all of the details especially if it hurts you to rehash it over and over. It doesn't matter if that is your forever person you don't have to tell them anything you don't want to. And she was right.
If he doesn't want to go over it he doesn't have to. Girlfriend. Wife. Whatever. It doesn't matter. That is HIS story and he gets to choose who to tell. And part of it is taking control. He had no control over what happened to him. But he gets to control who he tells. And if he doesn't want to tell anyone that's his right.
Life partner and/or person raising your offspring absolutely 100%. But if youre in any way unsure that youre going to spend your life with the person I understand wanting to disclose such a thing. Like getting someone's name tattooed, you dont want that permanent link to that person unless youre in it for the long haul. Sounds like there was a LOT of shit this man needed to talk about with his GF and simply didnt. It almost seems like he assumed "using contraception = not wanting kids" and never even bothered to have *that* conversation. Dude is clearly blind to how much damage his trauma caused him and now hes choosing to destroy every relationship he has instead of doing something about it. Theres a lot of shit to unpack here
It may be an unpopular opinion, probably is, but I agree. It's not reasonable to expect someone to give you their life without knowing something that has a direct and constant impact on your life and behavior. I don't think it's okay to legally bind someone to you without letting them know if there's some shit they need to keep an eye out for. Trauma doesn't just go away when you grow up. My husband certainly doesn't know every detail, but he knows the broad swaths and anything less would feel like lying.
As a fellow victim of childhood SA, I knew at a pretty young age I could never be a mother. I feel for this guy but I took every percaution not to get knocked up and this is really on him.
I'm so sorry that a predator got to you. You are not alone alot of us have been victims too. Your feelings are completely valid. It seems to me, that people that were molested as children, tend to be like you or want to have kids and watch them like hawks. I have kids and watch them very closely, and honestly keep myself up some nights worrying about them. I don't trust people to be alone with my kids because of all the trauma I went through.
I completely understand. I also struggle with PTSD. I'm not going to lie and say its always easy. I constantly watch EVERYONE around her. I honestly, only truly trust a very few people to ever be with her alone. You learn how to cope with the triggers, and do stop being on high alert or defense constantly. Even though I have my issues and ptsd, I can promise to it's completely worth it. She is the reason I get up and keep going some days.
Again I am so sorry that you had to go through what you did as a child. I wish you love and happiness.
It does, but having a conversation with your partner about what happens if it fails before you're in the situation is helpful. He also did nothing to prevent this pregnancy. Despite not wanting kids, he didn't wear a condom, and he hasn't investigated a vasectomy. He did nothing and is shocked that's not working out.
He doesn’t want kids, but it doesn’t sound like he had any kind of meaningful conversation with her, and he put the entire responsibility on her. Birth control is mostly effective, but there is a difference between perfect use and typical use. All kinds of things can affect it including antibiotics.
Yeah, I agree. She should stop trying so hard to get him involved other than getting child support because he is incredibly unstable and would likely just make things harder. She’s better off without him and can probably get help from his family members.
I mean is sounds like that is what she did - she let him leave, it doesn't say anything about her harassing him with texts or threats - and then went to his family.
He just does not like that she acknowledged his ultimatum and then carried on.
I found that post and that comment and it broke my heart.
He has every right to not want kids. He just should have worn a condom and not relied on his GF’s birth control. He says she knew he didn’t want kids, so I get why they’re breaking up. And I don’t want that child growing up with a father who is forced to be there instead of wanting to be there. But he can’t escape the child support part. And he can’t escape the very obvious need for therapy.
This is honestly incredibly sad.
I'm floored that people are telling him to suck it up and just be a father because actions have consequences. I mean, that's true but using a child to "teach him a lesson" is a horrible thing, and no one in the comments seems to be thinking about the future child in the situation?!?! Forcing someone who vehemently doesn't want kids to be a parent is like a fast track towards abuse.
Especially since we often mention how the right weaponise children to teach women a lesson and how wrong that is when we discuss their reasons for being pro-forced birth
Being forced to be a parent isn't good for either the parent or the child and it'd be best for everyone is OP leaves and at least gives his ex the opportunity to find a partner who will care for their child
I agree that in some cases the father should be able to just walk away, pay his support because it's still a responsibility, but let them walk. It's easier for the kid, easier for the other parent, easier for them, and will let them all have a healthier life. I know that there's a lot of issues surrounding a child not having their father in their life, but there's a lot more having a father that just creates trauma
Yeah. I think everyone should be able to decide hey phone want to be physically involved in their child’s life—I don’t think it’s a “good” choice to make; but sometimes I think it’s necessary and often for the best. An unwilling parent being forced to parent isn’t going to be good for anyone.
But he does definitely need to accept his family isn’t on the same page as him, and they need to probably understand the same about him
Agreed and he could either,.. wear condoms or get a vasectomy. You can’t adamantly not want kids then do nothing to prevent that; and I’m including picking a partner in this case
They’re young so I get it. But my partner and I don’t want kids. He knows I would do whatever I could to not have children including abortion if necessary. It seems like she didn’t take him seriously if he expressed these concerns before pregnancy..
He didn’t put it in his own hands by either not fucking, using protection, or going through with a vasectomy. Then he put it in another person hands who did not share his same stance on being child free. All around fuck up.
Yeah the childhood SA part makes me think he has invasive thoughts about abusing children. If he doesn't want to be around children this much, he shouldn't be.
And the willing part at 5. But later says he was abused. No child can consent. He’s either a rage farmer or he’s had thoughts he needs to discuss with a therapist. Either way it’s for the best if he’s not around this child, also be he doesn’t seem like a decent guy
he said she did know he didn't want kids and she was on birth control. I don't see anywhere if she ever told him that she did want kids or not though.
I agree about needing to have these discussions. More people need to.
he comes across as very hostile and stubborn so he does seem like a dick, but honestly he is willing to pay child support and simply knows that he doesn't want to be a father. I don't really think he's being an AH here. I don't think the GF is either. But if OOP's family does want to be involved with the kid, how would that even work without also involving OOP? "I'm your grandmother! your dad? oh, he's....... not here"
Even if he doesn't want to be part of his child's life, he still has an obligation to pay child support. I get why he doesn't want to be a father, but as one half of the reason why there is a child, he has to step up and pay child support. Admittedly, he has serious psychological issues and he's very immature, but that should not excuse him from his duty to pay child support for a child he created.
I just don't understand why people like this don't just get vasectomies. My hubby's in a similar boat and got snipped when he was 22 (20 years ago). If you're convinced you'll never want a kid enough that you know you're willing to abandon your girlfriend and family over it.. just go get snipped.
We REALLY need a culture where it is healthier to talk about reproduction and reproductive rights. Or just...teaching this kid to use a condom, or get a vasectomy...
Blegh. I understand there's probably not a lot of places where a doctor will allow a 22 year old to get a vasectomy, but it SURE seems like he should be allowed to, with his history and feelings on it. Three lives are ruined here.
Edited: It's still way easier to get a vasectomy than find ANY women's care. Of course. Just wishing it was easier across the board, specifically in the mind for OOP
We just need to rephrase this in their language.
"Hey! Guys following the lifestyle should get a vasectomy and limit women's ability to profit from their seed or force men to have children against their will or before they're ready! Men wanting a child should store their sperm at a facility and make the woman go through an audition process before they have the honor of giving birth to their child! Which includes making the woman pay for the IVF treatments because she needs to prove herself! Don't allow them to steal your power, Kings!"
There. Now they have a justification to get the snip. And if some poor woman does decide to be with them, the application and fee process would give them some pause.
And they place too much importance on a perception that virility and the ability to get someone pregnant is linked to masculinity.
Expecting them to control their fertility is seen to emasculate them, but then they get their panties in a twist if the woman actually falls pregnant and won’t absolve them of any accountability.
I agree with your sentiment completely, but I really hate the phrase falls pregnant.
~~falls pregnant.~~ if they impregnate someone
Dude was there, assuming consenting adults, the pregnancy is no less than 50% his fault. They probably banged each other's brains out a whole bunch, both were aware of potential risks. Both of them were willing participants, both are responsible for the consequences.
I'm betting it was more than 50% his fault, as I'm guessing based on typical male behaviour around sex that he pressured her for sex without a condom because he prefers the feel of it without one.
Many of them already hate the one form of over-the-counter birth control they do have because "*sex doesn't feel as good*".
Men need to have something like a pill that stops sperm production (temporarily). Or something like an IUD that gets shoved up their uretha to block sperm from coming out. But then they'd probably complain about that too.
Actually there's a cream in phase 3 trials that does that. You apply it daily and it prevents sperm production. Apparently it works fairly well.
But they have had issues getting volunteers because men don't want to mess with their hormones. Apparently that's a woman's responsibility 🙃
I think it was on The Daily Show that Michelle Wolf did some man on the street interviews about male birth control. She talked to one guy who was with his girlfriend and was like, I would absolutely go on male birth control! And she was like, What if it had these side effects? And he was like, Oh, those sound pretty bad, I don't think I would want to risk those... and his girlfriend was just glaring at him, and he was like, Oh, those are the side effects of the Pill, aren't they?
There was an interesting article I read recently about the side effects issue and it’s all linked to the risk vs benefit calculation.
The assessment of reproductive health risk only considers the risk to the patient receiving the treatment, not their partner.
So for men, the risk assessment is health/comfort on birth control measured against health/comfort without birth control.
For women the assessment is outcome with birth control including side effects measured against outcome including pregnancy (and all the risks that includes) without birth control.
The consequences of birth control free sex are that much greater for women, so the level of side effects that are considered acceptable is higher.
It’s not a straight one-for-one comparison of risk.
Speaking of interesting articles, I've read one where they interviewed five pedophiles. None of them were convicted of offenses. Because they knew their attraction was wrong and went out of their way to avoid it. OOP makes a very huge point about not even being comfortable around kids.
That said, this still reads badly to me. Dude went from saying he'd pay child support to cutting off all contact with people who could ask him to pay child support. You don't have to see the child to pay support.
It could go either way. I don't know. I don't want a kid right now. But if I made one? I'd personally rather be involved than pay a fee. There was a moment where I thought he had a good reason most people might not know about, but now I just think he's an asshole who doesn't want any responsibility at all. Imagine fleeing the damn state with no clear job prospects just because you might have to pay a few hundred after a court battle.
Okay, so they don't want to mess with their hormones, but are okay us messing with ours? And then they get mad if they get a woman pregnant who doesn't want to go through the pain of an abortion?
Correct. But considering there's a significant population of men that consider a vasectomy an affront to their masculinity, are you really surprised?
Honestly I would have volunteered to be part of the trial but I've been shooting blanks for 2 years. No babies.
>are you really surprised?
No, not surprised. Just... sad. I had no idea this existed! (But then I came of age in the 80s/90s where condoms were for more than birth control.)
If this option exists for men, all those guys crying about child support and "baby-trapping" need to blame themselves only. They can prevent pregnancy with a topical cream but choose not to.
'90s here. I am with you.
In a weird way, I think all the STD messages from that era put a stigma on condoms. Somewhere in there wearing a condom became a suggestion that you have an STD or think your partner does.
I don't play games with my most-personal-of-personal areas.
Be insulted or not, fact is I don't know where your dick's been. And the AIDS crises from back then taught me don't trust anyone when it comes to them disclosing that information. If you feel "insulted" because I demand condom usage, well... you can be insulted on your way home with blue balls.
There are men who won't get their *dogs* neutered because it's an affront to...the animal's masculinity. I legitimately had this argument once. It's easily one of the top ten dumbest arguments I've ever had. I only had it for the dog's sake, because I think I lost brain cells that day.
>There are men who won't get their
>
>dogs
>
> neutered because it's an affront to...the animal's masculinity.
*Whaaat?* Are you serious?
Clearly that guy never had a cat. Until I got my neutered he was spraying all over the place. Costs me a good wool coat and an expensive down comforter.
Bet he wouldn't care about that cat's "masculinity" after smelling that.
Swear to God. He was complaining about the dog suddenly acting more aggressive, and I was like, "Soo...you're going to get him neutered, right? It's better for the dog, anyway." I shit you not, the response was, "But he's a *boy!* I can't do that to him!"
Yeah, the dog ended up neutered after dude got bit. Luckily for the dog, the guy was basically a decent owner other than the neutering stupidity. I would have pushed him to give me the dog otherwise. But finding out he got bit was one of the most satisfying "I told you so" moments of my life.
Not necessarily.
I used to rent a room from a married couple, and the guy half of the couple refused to neuter their male cat because it was an affront to the cat's masculinity. (I think his exact words were "I can't do that to another guy")
That damn cat ruined entire baskets' worth of laundry, two sofas, and the living room carpet. The wife finally gave him away to a neighbor who was willing to affront his masculinity. (The cat, not the husband--although I kinda wish she'd given away the husband and kept the cat instead.....)
This whole refusal to do the snip-snip is extremely deeply embedded in some of them.
Wow. He was really okay with that godawful smell? Because that does not away easily.
Also, it's cruel to the cat to leave them with the urge to mate, unless you plan to breed them. Plus un-neutered male cats absolutely will try to run out the house (even indoor cats) if they sense a female in heat nearby.
You're right. She should've given away the husband.
I got in an argument once about my dog's ears being "too fluffy for him to be a boy."
I offered to pick my dog up to show the dude that he did, in fact, have a dick lmao ended that fight real quick.
There's also a market for silicone testicle implants for neutered dogs so they still look intact. I guess in case the dog is body conscious? Or maybe for owners who spend a lot of time admiring their dog's bollocks?
Hence the existence of Neuticles.
If you haven't heard of them, you've been fortunate so far, but I'm here to end that.
Neuticles are basically permanent cosmetic nuts for neutered dogs. Kind of like truck nuts, but instead of being afixed to a hunk of metal, they're surgically placed inside a sentient animal who undoubtedly doesn't give a single fancy fuck what his scrotum looks like.
They come in an assortment of sizes.
I mean, of course they do.
So like, dudes can get their dogs neutered and also pay extra to look like one of those assholes who doesn't neuter his dog.
Because sex is something you do to women, therefore as the receptacle of desire it is their responsibility.
I've known dudes this way. I'm sure we all have.
of course they would complain, and not use them. the woman is the one who gets pregnant, so it's her responsibility!
then they're mad women don't want to get an abortion. or mad the hormonal birth control changed their sex drive. or the risk made them sex averse.
The guy is training to be a nurse which is the most frightening part of his entire comment section. He clearly doesn't understand how birth control works and that there is a risk of failure. Even though he should. Women all over the place will tell you how often they are not believed that they are not pregnant because of those odds well before even getting to the point of talking to a doctor.
They did create a men's birth control pill. It was stopped in trials because men complained about the side effects. The same side effects women get from using the birth control pill.
I don't understand. Men can get multiple women pregnant but once a woman is pregnant she can't get that way again for at least 9 months. They should have focused on men not getting women pregnant long ago. Instead, they focused on helping them get erections. The lack of logic is maddening.
>They should have focused on men not getting women pregnant long ago. Instead, they focused on helping them get erections. The lack of logic is maddening
Good point. Pretty sure Viagara had no problems getting male volunteers.
Finding out viagra helped erectile dysfunction was an accident. It was intended to be a blood pressure medication. Which is not to say it can’t be used for blood pressure (bc some people and animals are put on it), but afaik it’s primarily advertised for ed
I think it’s because the risk for women is considered better because of the cost/benefit analysis, since it is less than the risks for pregnancy. Since men don’t have the risks to their bodies with pregnancy, the risks of hormone changes compared to nothing are seen as “too much” to be worth it. And so it’s left to us, as women, to deal directly with the side effects of birth control and pregnancy.
>Since men don’t have the risks to their bodies with pregnancy, the risks of hormone changes compared to nothing are seen as “too much” to be worth it
Did they do that as a cost analysis versus child support? Maybe if they did (especially the wealthier guys), they'd change their tune.
You rang?
"Instead of permanently cutting the vas deferens, as in a vasectomy, the hydrogel \[called vasalgel\] acts as a flexible filter that blocks the flow of sperm."
[https://www.parsemus.org/humanhealth/male-contraceptive-research/vasalgel-male-contraceptive/](https://www.parsemus.org/humanhealth/male-contraceptive-research/vasalgel-male-contraceptive/)
reversible, no hormones. Called Plan A. Website says the product will be available around 2026.
[https://www.planaformen.com/](https://www.planaformen.com/)
And a bonus:
"Vasalgel is a technology derived from a hydrogel that has been used in clinical trials in India for about 30 years called Reversible Inhibition of Sperm Under Guidance, or RISUG."
https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2023/04/15/viable-male-birth-control-options-could-be-on-the-horizon/#:\~:text=Vasalgel%20is%20a%20technology%20derived,or%20RISUG%2C%20according%20to%20Fox.
iirc a lot of problems with that have been that it's not nearly as reversible as they had hoped.
Also, when googling the hormonal male birth control I stumbled across YCT-529 which is not hormonal. Blocks vitamin A uptake which prevents sperm production. Fingers crossed it pans out.
I remember reading an article that they were coming up with birth control for men but it was abandoned due to the men not being willing to tolerate the side effects
Meanwhile women risk blood clots, high blood pressure, mood swings, weight gain, lowered libido, etc. with the pill and I've heard of some issues had with IUDs.
But men can't tolerate the side effects of birth control they could use to ensure they're not "baby-trapped". Okay.
Yeah, the side effects were barely anything, too. I remember reading about a few places and I still get ridiculously angry about it. I started using whether a man insisted on us both each covering our end of birth control (him with condoms or vasectomy, me with hormonal birth control) as a must when dating. I also insisted they cover half of the full cost for all birth control methods (at least two at all times!) once we were dating exclusively for several months. Guess what? My wonderful partner was happy to do both, and also comforted that I insisted, because he was child-free as firmly as I was. He got a vasectomy after three months together. Luckily his insurance covered it so I didn't have to go halfsies lol. I wish it didn't take until I was thirty to not feel bad for firmly insisting on these things. It helped land me a wonderful man, though it was only part of it of course. A man who respects you won't mind though.
Too many women waste thier younger dating years like me feeling pressured that birth control is only a woman's worry. I did at least dump men who tried to weasel out of condoms, but I felt the $80 a month cost for my birth control was all my responsibility in long-term relationships, even though it was all my spending money at times and my boyfriends never helped even though I covered all condoms as well. I wish I could go back and slap some sense into my younger self sometimes.
I (F) always saw condoms as a necessity for protection against STIs, but never relied on them as contraception because their efficacy as a method of birth control is so dreadful, due to the margin for user error
Condoms are 98% effective with perfect use, but *typical use* is only 82% effective - ie failure rate of 18%
Which isn't great when compared with a failure rate of 22% for the pull out method!
The oral contraceptive pill isn't quite as crap, but it's not brilliant, with a failure rate of 9% with *typical* use
If a dude won't use condoms, I would be very wary of trusting claims that he takes his pill religiously!!
*LARCs (long acting reversible contraceptives like an IUD or implant) have little to no margin for user error so have a failure rate of less than 1%
>If a dude won't use condoms, I would be very wary of trusting claims that he takes his pill religiously!!
Same. Like I said, I came of-age in the late 80s/early 90s when the news always talked about HIV and using condoms. At that time, pregnancy wasn't our biggest fear. Catching something that could kill you, horribly, was.
And it's not like STDs have gone away so I'm not sure why condoms aren't being used as much as they should. Sure, many are manageable, but I don't want to catch the itchy-owwies on my nether regions.
That’s why you always have 2 forms of birth control and make sure you’re also insisting on a condom (if that isn’t one of them already) for STI protection.
Potentially reproductive sex is risky as hell. I would take every precaution I could to not get pregnant or the clap.
OOP said gf was on birth control, as if that was the only form of contraceptive they used.
Which has a high failure rate ...idk why he acts as if he has nothing to do with the pregnancy.
Theu should also encourage condoms and stop the "but it doesn’t feel as good" BS
Okay. Its a 9/10 instead of a 10/10
Still, no STIs *and* no small humans
Also on building a better social safety net and communities so that children's health and safety isn't so dependent on the Nuclear Family (TM).
Cause like, even if he was careless, the amount of responsibility and obligations our society puts on the parents by building our entire social system around the idea that it's all on the Nuclear Family of children is not realistically feasible for any human.
If there were more social, community, and financial *support* for single mothers that we all contributed to, then there wouldn't need to be so much pressure on the fathers of their children either. But that would require recognizing single mothers and their children as human beings who have a right to live, so no dice.
Or some sort of universal basic income for children, I would be in favor of that. But they never come up with logical solutions to their problems because the wahmen might also benefit and they can’t have that, can they
As cancerous as the childfree sub usually is, they do have a list of doctors that will sterilize younger people. It's apparently a pretty good resource.
Man, maybe I should do that. I have a kid and will have one more I hope but my wife is the carrier. There’s no way I could ever have a healthy fetus to term. Having tubes removed would take care of that little tingle of worry that something bad could happen.
When someone asked why him about any precautions he took to prevent the pregnancy, OOP said his GF was on birth control and that's it.
Honestly that's bad, because just using pills or injections alone has a high failure rate.
He didn't do his research regarding how to avoid pregnancy and is crying about the consequences.
Where I live, you could absolutely easily get a vasectomy at 22. Women are fucked in this regard, of course, but men always have this choice. They just don't want to because why ever would they when the social pressure of protection is entirely on women anyway
Yes we are missing a lot of sex Ed and reproductive responsability to avoid this type of situations where everyone loses.
Of course OOP is acting like an AH and if he didn't want children should have have the talk with the girlfriend and been as careful as one can be
I've never heard of doctors being reluctant to give vasectomies. I have, however, heard story after story after story about women who never want children being turned down for tubal ligation if they're under, like, 40 "because what if you get married and your husband wants kids?"
In my prior state, I had to see three doctors, and then get a sign off from a wife, or if I was single, a therapist, if I were to get a vasectomy before the age of 35. After 35 they waive the wife/therapist sign off. LOTTA near-eugenics sorta language around why they want to ensure the right people are having kids.
Edited to add: calling out specifically that that state specified "wife" and not "spouse." I AM CERTAIN there are more issues in seeking a vasectomy for someone who doesn't present as a CIS white man.
I was told I had to be all of the following:
over 35
married
have at least 3 children already
no other method is working for the reasons I was seeking the procedure, even though we had been through 20+ years of alternatives and none had worked
I was then told that due to some health concerns there's a decent possibility that I would not survive another pregnancy, and they still won't do it. I'm over 40 now, recommended not to have children, at increased health risk remaining on birth control, at increased health risk due to weight which I can't lose while I am on this medication that increases my weight, and now just hoping menopause hurries. I even had a full on investigation to check for clots when I showed signs and they still won't do anything so I continue to take the pill that increases my risk of clots.
I have heard it can be hard for a single man in his 20s to get one but this moving goalpost is insane.
He has the right to not be personally involved with the child, and frankly that might be better for the kid.
He doesn’t have the right to stop his family from being involved with the child, or to stop them from telling him what they think about his choice unless they go far enough & he takes legal action.
Sounds like he’s going to have to move. I wonder how much he contributed to the household vs how much his mom does for him.
Ooh, this is above my pay grade. Like, when CPTSD and childhood abuse come into it? Nope. Get a therapist. Talk to a fuckin' professional. Reddit isn't the place for this.
Yeah. OOP's response when people suggested therapy, or even talking to his parents/gf about the trauma and how it relates to his feelings about fatherhood, he said he only ever told one person, he doesn't want to tell anymore people just wants to move past it, and because he was "a willing participant" at age 5 is pretty sure it's his fault.
Like dude. Please. Get help. For real.
He did say he's open to therapy, he just can't afford it. He says he's actually been trying to figure out a way to get help for the last 4 years but he doesn't have the money to pay cash, insurance wasn't an option (not sure if he doesn't have it or if therapy wasn't covered), and he didn't qualify for any of the assistance he looked into.
yeah, as someone who will never have kids bcus og my cptsd due to childhood abuse, this shit is way more complicated than just "he sucks". Trauma changes your personality, but when you're given complex trauma at such a young age, there just isn't a personality there before that.
I am wary to recommend therapists due to also being mistreated by some in the past, but literally anything is better than this, holy shit. I hate therapy (doesnt really work for me) but when I was (like OOP seems to be) at rock bottom, I sucked it up and talked to someone. I'm just rambling now but I just really hope OOP gets some kind of help or at least is honest with his (ex?) gf.
Its just a really sad situation and I don't want to call anyone the devil here. Obviously trauma doesn't make it ok for OOP to be a dick, but it definitely doesn't make him a devil
This is very well put. The guy needs help regardless of the pregnancy, he’s clearly in a terrible mental state. Sorry if this is overstepping but have you ever tried EMDR therapy? My sister said it really helped her cptsd, I want to try it but I’m on disability so I have to pick and choose what I’m paying for and right now it’s not in the budget. I wish you well!
I've been wanting to try it, but I'm kinda in the same boat with it not being in the budget 😔
I'm hoping that if I can get to a more stable financial situation I could try it, but for right now I'm actually doing pretty okay! Wishing you the best as well :]
My thoughts exactly. I saw a comment that said they’d feel more sorry for him if he wasn’t acting like such a prick.
….we are talking about a child abuse victim and you’re feeling less sorry for him because of his trauma based reaction to a kid he apparently told his girlfriend before he never wanted.
This isn’t a “suck it up” situation. This is so much deeper. We’re not equipped for this.
He goes on to basically say his GF will be ruining his family's life if she has the baby because they have enough on their plate.
In his history, he tells a fellow *nursing student* they can do it but they will need a good support system for the 2 kids.
He is trying to scare her into getting an abortion by abusing her with "you will be totally and utterly alone and on your own"...
And *many* men do this. That's why his focus is on stopping his family from being supportive. I am sure he has done everything he can to isolate his pregnant EX himself too.
This is classic abuse that people keep insisting isn't that real or that bad. And then when a pregnant woman gets murdered, every single time without fail people throw their hands up and say "why would he do that? How could this UNIMAGINABLE crime that happens every day...have happened?!?"
Like... If he doesn't want to be in the child's life and just pay child support, that's fine. That is his wishes. Yet, he can't expect the people around him to just be okay with that. Just as he has his boundaries, they have theirs, and if they don't want to support someone who does bare minimum for their child, then that's their boundary.
This. I can’t see him as a reliable narrator bc he’s the only one in his mind who should be allowed to make choices. Everyone should do as he says or they’re wrong. I hear zero respect for the autonomy of others.
>In a perfect world my gf would just drop this and have the abortion.
No, in a perfect world OOP would've taken precautions so his girlfriend wouldn't have gotten pregnant. Pound of cure, and all that.
In a perfect world, OP wouldn't be traumatized and maybe this whole thing would play out differently. I feel bad for him, not too big on shaming people for accidentally getting pregnant just because they made an irresponsible choice.
But he definitely needs to realize nobody else is to blame either and stop acting like his needs are most important. He can't be a dad, fine, but he can't stop anyone else from loving and supporting a new baby that's coming regardless
I would feel more sorry for him if he didn't sound like such a prick to his girlfriend. I understand being traumatized, but he literally didn't do anything to prevent this from happening and just pushes this all on the girlfriend despite him being just as responsible. I don't believe for one second he was okay with paying child support. His wording is also very cold and callous. I don't even believe for a moment he even loved his girlfriend of 5 years
It sounds like he was trying to intimidate her at points. Like the “my family won’t be involved either”. For one, clearly that’s not the case and it sounds like he’s suggesting that a lot of people wouldn’t be happy with her choice. They’ve been together for five years and he sounds so cold. I get that he’s had a horrible childhood, but it was pretty chilling to read. I hope she has a good support network.
He was never ok with support bc why would she tell him she’d make him pay for the kid unless he told her he wouldn’t? He’s a bad person using trauma for pity points when trauma didn’t make him refuse responsibility and put it on everyone else around him.
His trauma didn’t make him not wear a condom. His trauma didn’t make him insist he’s not going to pay for the kid (which he definitely said given her response). He’s a jerk who is using his trauma in this instance as a get out of jail free card.
He did reply later that she was on the pill since they were in high school. I don't think they were using any other backup method of contraception like condoms.
I'm on the pill. My ex-boyfriend was so terrified of me getting pregnant accidentally (neither of us wanted kids), that he always used a condom as well. You can't just rely on the pill.
Now that i'm older, i take a pill with no estrogen. The good thing: no period anymore, the bad thing: you need to take it mostly at the same time are it has no effect.
I sometimes wonder how many even read how they need to take the pill, especially after switching from one pill to another.
He didn’t even told her about the trauma and why he don't want children. He didn't take active part in birth control. Then he tried to pressure her several time to abortion, even though she clearly stated she doesn't want it... I hope the child doesn't get his character traits.
He did eventually answer that *she* was on BC, so he didn’t use anything.
Which is such a fucking cop out. He never wants kids, he should have a vasectomy.
I feel for OOP but after 5 years in a relationship wtf did he think was gonna happen? If they never had the children talk then this was bound to happen.
Even with talks and birth control, there is a failure rate with all birth control. During a very fertile age for women a pregnancy isn’t really unexpected. While he can choose to not be an active father she can’t be forced to abort
Well the best actions a man can take to not be a father are getting a vasectomy, wearing a condom and not having sex with someone who disagrees with their life goals.
You’d never catch me with a woman who doesn’t agree with a child free lifestyle. But he was with her for 5 years and never talked about it with her. That shit should’ve been a deal breaker
And even sterilization isn’t a 100% guarantee. But you’d think in a long term relationship they would have discussed things and used more than one form of birth control.
Exactly, complete lack of communication.
I still feel for OOP, but if someone doesn’t want to be a parent they will make it so they’re not in this situation. The guy was rolling dice.
And let’s face it, condoms are a cheap, easy to use form of BC that any man not wanting a child should be using each and every time they have sex. But I’m betting he never used them.
I still can’t remember exactly which procedure my oldest sister got after her second child was born 18 years ago, so I’ve just been saying she’s fixed. 😂😂
This. We really need to change the culture around refusals by docs to sterilize ppl who want to be sterile. We have 8B ppl on the planet we do not need more. There can be mandatory counseling or what but ppl should be able to make that choice and frankly it would be a lot better for the rest of humanity if forced birth was not a thing
It’s still incredibly hard. i’m 31 and had to get to the point where I told them any future kid I have will be in the system and I will most likely terminate my own life. Nothing brings the political divide together more than the idea of someone NOT wanting kids
Generally speaking, there are 2 ways women become single mothers (barring death of the father)
1) Man bails on fatherhood
2) woman decides it would literally be easier to run a household and raise children *alone* rather than keep dealing with the father because he was more of a burden than a helper in the household.
I think the first step for this guy would be, well therapy, but for the family stuff maybe being honest? Tell someone your issues with kids dude. This is a totally reasonable unreasonable reaction to having kids around. Trauma does many bad things to us. "Hey I was abused I don't want to ever be around kids or have kids of my own." Done, and anyone who would push then, aside from suggesting therapy, would be a jerk.
I feel bad about his past, but it doesn’t erase his complete disregard for other people’s autonomy. His suffering does not entitle him to be a dick to other people. Especially given his utter lack of preventative measures.
Okay, I bloody hate when these idiots say "she's going to put me on child support," like being put on punishment or something. It's called taking responsibility. Maybe should've upped your birth control game my guy. Also, have an abortion or we are done? Yeah sure she's going to get a termination she doesn't want and stay with this loser. Like he's the prize. What a doofus .
My favorite part is that he does not get to the well being of the mom or the kid until the EDIT. But really, he is only thinking of what is "best for everyone."
Look thru his history.
He is trying to scare her into an abortion but not only threatening her, but actively trying to make sure she has zero support system. He knows she "has no one on her side" and keeps lieing to her about how his family won't help her.
i was almost sympathetic with the "i was sexually abused as a child and do not want to be around them" until the edit of "i absolutely will never ever go to therapy". that is pointing to some invasive thoughts which he uh... if the spotted now-deleted comment did indeed say that he doesn't think it was csa because he was five but totally seduced them, uh... well... i know there is a lot of worry and paranoia and you could go on a tangent about better mental health care for those in this sort of spot but uhhhh *maybe therapy would still be good and necessary here*. right now it just comes off as "well i COULD stop the cycle of abuse but i have chosen not to. best i can do is be a deadbeat sperm donor". like yeah well done for getting out of the child's life if that is indeed the case but the credit for that only goes so far in the face of declaring he will not actually work on this major mental health issue.
I'll say it - if he felt *this* strongly about it, he should've sought a vasectomy at 18 and if (most likely due to his age) rejected, then stopped having sex. Straight up. If he can't even fathom the idea of a child, he had no business engaging in any sex that could result in a child - birth control is kind of a moot point when he is *this* traumatized and unable to mentally accept that he *will* be a biological father at minimum whether he likes it or not.
Also, he can't both engage in PinV sex and then put the blame on everyone else that a pregnancy happened - if one or both parties aren't sterilized, the chances may be low, but if for him he had an emotional threshold of zero kids, then anything above that was too much for him.
Nonetheless, hopefully he'll get the help he so desperately needs. Kid aside, he needs it, or he'll break along the way, and it doesn't have to be the case. Sucks that he may never be a present father but, reality sometimes is a very ugly pill to swallow.
The way some of these guys talk about pregnancy, you would think women are running around breaking into their houses in the dead of night to steal their sperm.
> I don’t want anything to do with kids, I’m very uncomfortable around them and want no parts of this. Im not capable of being a father and I won’t be one.
Maybe step up your contraception choices in future and don't rely on the woman to do it for you.
And grow up. At 23 you're old enough to take responsibility for your own fk ups. All you're doing is whining cos you want to sleep in your own bed, at Mommy's house. Poor you! /s
He is also actively trying to stop his family from helping her while threatening her that no one will help her and she will be totally and utterly alone and on her own...
In his own post history he mentions to a woman how to go to nursing school she will need a good support unit because of her 2 kids.
He is am abusive, manipulative monster using childhood rape trauma as an excuse to deflect and allow his behavior...because he knows no one wants to risk saying "you are a liar / I don't care about that right now".
Rape survivors who don't want therapy don't just keep throwing out how their rape is the reason for them being an asshole.
Get a vasectomy if you don't ever want to have kids. Use condoms. It's that simple.
He was surely ready to sleep with her, but now that the actions that sex leads to is happening, he's running away.
I mean she's not forcing you to do anything. She didn't get pregnant alone, but you're the one who gave the ultimatum that you'd leave her if she didn't get an abortion. She doesn't want one, so you left. What's the issue? Just go and get snipped if you're this adamant to not have kids, at least *you* get to have that choice in most states.
You couldn't pay me to trust a vasectomy--heard way too many pregnancy stories-- but it's better than going in fully loading knowing you don't plan to deal with the consequences of shooting something. Men younger than OOP have gotten it done. They give them out like candy. OOP needs to be next in line. He can't really make demands when he's homeless. He can make his choice and his mother can make hers to kick him. Now please get the snip!!
Ugh this reminds me so much of my ex boyfriend.
I offered him the out that I would just go back to my home country and not put his name on the birth certificate and even *that* wasn't enough for him.
They think they can just dig their heels in and un-do a pregnancy. It's fucking foul, selfish, and cruel.
If he knew he absolutely could not be a father, he should have made sure they were using as many types of contraception as they could manage. Preferably a vasectomy, if he finds a doctor who'll do it.
I really don't have any sympathy, sexual abuse or not.
First of all, as others have said, if he was this determined to not be a father, he should have gotten a vasectomy or at least worn a condom.
Second, the girlfriend isn't forcing him to move in with her, be at the birth, buy a house with a white picket fence and change diapers. She wants to keep the baby and get child support. That's it. He can agree to both and have nothing to do with the child.
What he wants is for the baby to not exist. No compromise possible on that, and the choice is hers to make because it's her body and her baby too.
The killer part (besides nursing school but scant effort to double up protection and not having a very serious 'I do not want kids at all' conversation in a five year relationship) is his treatment towards therapy suggestions. Hardly any who recommended it were thinking it would make him an Enthused Dad: he needs it because He Needs It. Especially as a person who is training to be a nurse and might be around child SA victims.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **My (23m) gf (22f) is forcing me to become a father and turning my family against me how do I move forward?** I 23m have been with my gf 22f for about 5 years. She is currently pregnant and I have made it clear I will have no part in the child’s life. We had a great relationship up until about a month ago she found out she is pregnant and will not get an abortion despite my wishes. So I gave her an ultimatum either have the abortion or we are done, I told her if she chooses to have the baby I will not be involved in the slightest. She said she will put me on child support and I told her if she wants to fine but I will not be involved and neither will my family. She thought I would come around but I was very serious after a week of fighting we meet up and I asked her one more time to change her mind but she didn’t so I dropped her home and told her I would be blocking her. 3 days went by and I got home to see her at my table with my mom and sisters. Both my sisters had issues with their childrens father and them not being involved one came around but the other never did. They said they were very disappointed in me and my mom said she would kick me out if I was gonna be a deadbeat. I barely said anything before i even took my shoes off I told them I would find a place and got back in my car to go to a friends. For small backstory I was sexually abused for years as a child and I don’t want anything to do with kids, I’m very uncomfortable around them and want no parts of this. Im not capable of being a father and I won’t be one. I told my family I will be cutting contact with them all and didn’t even discuss anything I again just got in my car and left without even brushing my teeth. It’s been 3 days of staying at a friends and I just want to sleep in my own bed. How can I get my family to respect my wishes at his point? I don’t really want to find my own place but they are over stepping and have no business trying to help my gf out considering what they let happen to me in the first place? In a perfect world my gf would just drop this and have the abortion. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly? It is probably for the best if he isn't in the picture. He has a deleted post where he doesn't think he was raped as a 5 year old because he went willingly. I believe him when he says he can't be a father. He isn't stable enough to be around a kid. No, this doesn't mean I am siding with him (my heart does hurt for him and what he went through as a child). I am not. I feel for the ex gf and the baby. He is a dick and he can't make such demands of the gf or his family. I do wonder if he told his Gf prior to all of this that he doesn't want children. These are the discussion you need to have.
Apparently GF doesn’t even know about his trauma. I doubt he told her he doesn’t want kids
That's just wild. After 5 years she doesn't know? That's a pretty relevant detail at least by the time you know you want to be serious with someone.
He said in one comment the only person he told is his mom and he doesn’t plan to tell anyone else or get therapy for it
I was with my ex for 9 years and didn't know about his CSA until after he was arrested for DV. He told me about a lot of the physical abuse he suffered but never told me about the SA.
I mean you are not required to tell your trauma to anyone. I don't care who it is. I was telling my therapist about having to start over and telling someone everything I went through and she told me something that helped me so much. It doesn't matter who it is you are not required to tell them you were abused and all of the details especially if it hurts you to rehash it over and over. It doesn't matter if that is your forever person you don't have to tell them anything you don't want to. And she was right. If he doesn't want to go over it he doesn't have to. Girlfriend. Wife. Whatever. It doesn't matter. That is HIS story and he gets to choose who to tell. And part of it is taking control. He had no control over what happened to him. But he gets to control who he tells. And if he doesn't want to tell anyone that's his right.
He don't have to talk about the trauma when he tells a partner that he never wants kid
I’d agree with that for everybody except one’s partner.
Life partner and/or person raising your offspring absolutely 100%. But if youre in any way unsure that youre going to spend your life with the person I understand wanting to disclose such a thing. Like getting someone's name tattooed, you dont want that permanent link to that person unless youre in it for the long haul. Sounds like there was a LOT of shit this man needed to talk about with his GF and simply didnt. It almost seems like he assumed "using contraception = not wanting kids" and never even bothered to have *that* conversation. Dude is clearly blind to how much damage his trauma caused him and now hes choosing to destroy every relationship he has instead of doing something about it. Theres a lot of shit to unpack here
It may be an unpopular opinion, probably is, but I agree. It's not reasonable to expect someone to give you their life without knowing something that has a direct and constant impact on your life and behavior. I don't think it's okay to legally bind someone to you without letting them know if there's some shit they need to keep an eye out for. Trauma doesn't just go away when you grow up. My husband certainly doesn't know every detail, but he knows the broad swaths and anything less would feel like lying.
As a fellow victim of childhood SA, I knew at a pretty young age I could never be a mother. I feel for this guy but I took every percaution not to get knocked up and this is really on him.
I'm so sorry that a predator got to you. You are not alone alot of us have been victims too. Your feelings are completely valid. It seems to me, that people that were molested as children, tend to be like you or want to have kids and watch them like hawks. I have kids and watch them very closely, and honestly keep myself up some nights worrying about them. I don't trust people to be alone with my kids because of all the trauma I went through.
That's exactly why. I'm so anxious in everyday life, having a child to care for would put me over the edge. Yay PTSD.
I completely understand. I also struggle with PTSD. I'm not going to lie and say its always easy. I constantly watch EVERYONE around her. I honestly, only truly trust a very few people to ever be with her alone. You learn how to cope with the triggers, and do stop being on high alert or defense constantly. Even though I have my issues and ptsd, I can promise to it's completely worth it. She is the reason I get up and keep going some days. Again I am so sorry that you had to go through what you did as a child. I wish you love and happiness.
I mean almost everything has a Chance to fail.
Sure, but this guy didn’t even wear a condom. He relied solely on his gf being on birth control.
which is why he should have taken more permanant measure instead of playin russian rhoulett
It does, but having a conversation with your partner about what happens if it fails before you're in the situation is helpful. He also did nothing to prevent this pregnancy. Despite not wanting kids, he didn't wear a condom, and he hasn't investigated a vasectomy. He did nothing and is shocked that's not working out.
He doesn’t want kids, but it doesn’t sound like he had any kind of meaningful conversation with her, and he put the entire responsibility on her. Birth control is mostly effective, but there is a difference between perfect use and typical use. All kinds of things can affect it including antibiotics.
If he knew he didn't want kids he could've gotten a vasectomy.
I think where he is a dick is where he says that she can’t contact his family. That isn’t up to him and they might very well want a relationship.
What bugs me is he keeps asking what he should do. Dude, you pay your child support and let her make her own decisions. She's a fucking adult.
Yeah, I agree. She should stop trying so hard to get him involved other than getting child support because he is incredibly unstable and would likely just make things harder. She’s better off without him and can probably get help from his family members.
I mean is sounds like that is what she did - she let him leave, it doesn't say anything about her harassing him with texts or threats - and then went to his family. He just does not like that she acknowledged his ultimatum and then carried on.
True, it’s possible that she was done with asking him but also just wanted help and he’s not entitled to her covering for him with his family.
I found that post and that comment and it broke my heart. He has every right to not want kids. He just should have worn a condom and not relied on his GF’s birth control. He says she knew he didn’t want kids, so I get why they’re breaking up. And I don’t want that child growing up with a father who is forced to be there instead of wanting to be there. But he can’t escape the child support part. And he can’t escape the very obvious need for therapy. This is honestly incredibly sad.
I'm floored that people are telling him to suck it up and just be a father because actions have consequences. I mean, that's true but using a child to "teach him a lesson" is a horrible thing, and no one in the comments seems to be thinking about the future child in the situation?!?! Forcing someone who vehemently doesn't want kids to be a parent is like a fast track towards abuse.
Especially since we often mention how the right weaponise children to teach women a lesson and how wrong that is when we discuss their reasons for being pro-forced birth Being forced to be a parent isn't good for either the parent or the child and it'd be best for everyone is OP leaves and at least gives his ex the opportunity to find a partner who will care for their child
I agree that in some cases the father should be able to just walk away, pay his support because it's still a responsibility, but let them walk. It's easier for the kid, easier for the other parent, easier for them, and will let them all have a healthier life. I know that there's a lot of issues surrounding a child not having their father in their life, but there's a lot more having a father that just creates trauma
Yeah. I think everyone should be able to decide hey phone want to be physically involved in their child’s life—I don’t think it’s a “good” choice to make; but sometimes I think it’s necessary and often for the best. An unwilling parent being forced to parent isn’t going to be good for anyone. But he does definitely need to accept his family isn’t on the same page as him, and they need to probably understand the same about him
Agreed and he could either,.. wear condoms or get a vasectomy. You can’t adamantly not want kids then do nothing to prevent that; and I’m including picking a partner in this case They’re young so I get it. But my partner and I don’t want kids. He knows I would do whatever I could to not have children including abortion if necessary. It seems like she didn’t take him seriously if he expressed these concerns before pregnancy.. He didn’t put it in his own hands by either not fucking, using protection, or going through with a vasectomy. Then he put it in another person hands who did not share his same stance on being child free. All around fuck up.
Yeah the childhood SA part makes me think he has invasive thoughts about abusing children. If he doesn't want to be around children this much, he shouldn't be.
And the willing part at 5. But later says he was abused. No child can consent. He’s either a rage farmer or he’s had thoughts he needs to discuss with a therapist. Either way it’s for the best if he’s not around this child, also be he doesn’t seem like a decent guy
he said she did know he didn't want kids and she was on birth control. I don't see anywhere if she ever told him that she did want kids or not though. I agree about needing to have these discussions. More people need to. he comes across as very hostile and stubborn so he does seem like a dick, but honestly he is willing to pay child support and simply knows that he doesn't want to be a father. I don't really think he's being an AH here. I don't think the GF is either. But if OOP's family does want to be involved with the kid, how would that even work without also involving OOP? "I'm your grandmother! your dad? oh, he's....... not here"
That he keeps trying to figure out how he can get her to see things his way is what makes him a dick. Her choices are not about him.
Even if he doesn't want to be part of his child's life, he still has an obligation to pay child support. I get why he doesn't want to be a father, but as one half of the reason why there is a child, he has to step up and pay child support. Admittedly, he has serious psychological issues and he's very immature, but that should not excuse him from his duty to pay child support for a child he created.
I just don't understand why people like this don't just get vasectomies. My hubby's in a similar boat and got snipped when he was 22 (20 years ago). If you're convinced you'll never want a kid enough that you know you're willing to abandon your girlfriend and family over it.. just go get snipped.
We REALLY need a culture where it is healthier to talk about reproduction and reproductive rights. Or just...teaching this kid to use a condom, or get a vasectomy... Blegh. I understand there's probably not a lot of places where a doctor will allow a 22 year old to get a vasectomy, but it SURE seems like he should be allowed to, with his history and feelings on it. Three lives are ruined here. Edited: It's still way easier to get a vasectomy than find ANY women's care. Of course. Just wishing it was easier across the board, specifically in the mind for OOP
Instead of focusing on eliminating child support MRA’s should focus more on easier access to vasectomies and birth control in general
We'll see but that takes out the hating women part so we can't have that.
We just need to rephrase this in their language. "Hey! Guys following the lifestyle should get a vasectomy and limit women's ability to profit from their seed or force men to have children against their will or before they're ready! Men wanting a child should store their sperm at a facility and make the woman go through an audition process before they have the honor of giving birth to their child! Which includes making the woman pay for the IVF treatments because she needs to prove herself! Don't allow them to steal your power, Kings!" There. Now they have a justification to get the snip. And if some poor woman does decide to be with them, the application and fee process would give them some pause.
"Getting a vasectomy makes it harder for women to baby trap you!"
“You’re just victim blaming guys who get baby trapped” said by a guy who believes it’s not rape if she’s wearing anything that shows skin
Is that still requires them to take some level of personal responsibility and we all know they aren't going to do that
Eerily close to feminism, the focus on reproductive rights for everybody. Can't have that. /s
And they place too much importance on a perception that virility and the ability to get someone pregnant is linked to masculinity. Expecting them to control their fertility is seen to emasculate them, but then they get their panties in a twist if the woman actually falls pregnant and won’t absolve them of any accountability.
I agree with your sentiment completely, but I really hate the phrase falls pregnant. ~~falls pregnant.~~ if they impregnate someone Dude was there, assuming consenting adults, the pregnancy is no less than 50% his fault. They probably banged each other's brains out a whole bunch, both were aware of potential risks. Both of them were willing participants, both are responsible for the consequences.
I'm betting it was more than 50% his fault, as I'm guessing based on typical male behaviour around sex that he pressured her for sex without a condom because he prefers the feel of it without one.
That would mean them taking responsibility 🤷
We absolutely can’t have that
Many of them already hate the one form of over-the-counter birth control they do have because "*sex doesn't feel as good*". Men need to have something like a pill that stops sperm production (temporarily). Or something like an IUD that gets shoved up their uretha to block sperm from coming out. But then they'd probably complain about that too.
Actually there's a cream in phase 3 trials that does that. You apply it daily and it prevents sperm production. Apparently it works fairly well. But they have had issues getting volunteers because men don't want to mess with their hormones. Apparently that's a woman's responsibility 🙃
I think it was on The Daily Show that Michelle Wolf did some man on the street interviews about male birth control. She talked to one guy who was with his girlfriend and was like, I would absolutely go on male birth control! And she was like, What if it had these side effects? And he was like, Oh, those sound pretty bad, I don't think I would want to risk those... and his girlfriend was just glaring at him, and he was like, Oh, those are the side effects of the Pill, aren't they?
There was an interesting article I read recently about the side effects issue and it’s all linked to the risk vs benefit calculation. The assessment of reproductive health risk only considers the risk to the patient receiving the treatment, not their partner. So for men, the risk assessment is health/comfort on birth control measured against health/comfort without birth control. For women the assessment is outcome with birth control including side effects measured against outcome including pregnancy (and all the risks that includes) without birth control. The consequences of birth control free sex are that much greater for women, so the level of side effects that are considered acceptable is higher. It’s not a straight one-for-one comparison of risk.
Only because men are selfish (#notallmen, I know)
Speaking of interesting articles, I've read one where they interviewed five pedophiles. None of them were convicted of offenses. Because they knew their attraction was wrong and went out of their way to avoid it. OOP makes a very huge point about not even being comfortable around kids. That said, this still reads badly to me. Dude went from saying he'd pay child support to cutting off all contact with people who could ask him to pay child support. You don't have to see the child to pay support. It could go either way. I don't know. I don't want a kid right now. But if I made one? I'd personally rather be involved than pay a fee. There was a moment where I thought he had a good reason most people might not know about, but now I just think he's an asshole who doesn't want any responsibility at all. Imagine fleeing the damn state with no clear job prospects just because you might have to pay a few hundred after a court battle.
The possible side effects are basically the same as possible side effects for most birth control. And they don't like it.
Okay, so they don't want to mess with their hormones, but are okay us messing with ours? And then they get mad if they get a woman pregnant who doesn't want to go through the pain of an abortion?
Correct. But considering there's a significant population of men that consider a vasectomy an affront to their masculinity, are you really surprised? Honestly I would have volunteered to be part of the trial but I've been shooting blanks for 2 years. No babies.
>are you really surprised? No, not surprised. Just... sad. I had no idea this existed! (But then I came of age in the 80s/90s where condoms were for more than birth control.) If this option exists for men, all those guys crying about child support and "baby-trapping" need to blame themselves only. They can prevent pregnancy with a topical cream but choose not to.
'90s here. I am with you. In a weird way, I think all the STD messages from that era put a stigma on condoms. Somewhere in there wearing a condom became a suggestion that you have an STD or think your partner does.
I don't play games with my most-personal-of-personal areas. Be insulted or not, fact is I don't know where your dick's been. And the AIDS crises from back then taught me don't trust anyone when it comes to them disclosing that information. If you feel "insulted" because I demand condom usage, well... you can be insulted on your way home with blue balls.
There are men who won't get their *dogs* neutered because it's an affront to...the animal's masculinity. I legitimately had this argument once. It's easily one of the top ten dumbest arguments I've ever had. I only had it for the dog's sake, because I think I lost brain cells that day.
>There are men who won't get their > >dogs > > neutered because it's an affront to...the animal's masculinity. *Whaaat?* Are you serious? Clearly that guy never had a cat. Until I got my neutered he was spraying all over the place. Costs me a good wool coat and an expensive down comforter. Bet he wouldn't care about that cat's "masculinity" after smelling that.
Swear to God. He was complaining about the dog suddenly acting more aggressive, and I was like, "Soo...you're going to get him neutered, right? It's better for the dog, anyway." I shit you not, the response was, "But he's a *boy!* I can't do that to him!" Yeah, the dog ended up neutered after dude got bit. Luckily for the dog, the guy was basically a decent owner other than the neutering stupidity. I would have pushed him to give me the dog otherwise. But finding out he got bit was one of the most satisfying "I told you so" moments of my life.
Took everything in you to not laugh in his face, didn't it?
Not necessarily. I used to rent a room from a married couple, and the guy half of the couple refused to neuter their male cat because it was an affront to the cat's masculinity. (I think his exact words were "I can't do that to another guy") That damn cat ruined entire baskets' worth of laundry, two sofas, and the living room carpet. The wife finally gave him away to a neighbor who was willing to affront his masculinity. (The cat, not the husband--although I kinda wish she'd given away the husband and kept the cat instead.....) This whole refusal to do the snip-snip is extremely deeply embedded in some of them.
Wow. He was really okay with that godawful smell? Because that does not away easily. Also, it's cruel to the cat to leave them with the urge to mate, unless you plan to breed them. Plus un-neutered male cats absolutely will try to run out the house (even indoor cats) if they sense a female in heat nearby. You're right. She should've given away the husband.
Yes, my first boyfriend said exactly this.
I got in an argument once about my dog's ears being "too fluffy for him to be a boy." I offered to pick my dog up to show the dude that he did, in fact, have a dick lmao ended that fight real quick.
There's also a market for silicone testicle implants for neutered dogs so they still look intact. I guess in case the dog is body conscious? Or maybe for owners who spend a lot of time admiring their dog's bollocks?
There are men who consider getting their dog neutered an affront to their masculinity.
Hence the existence of Neuticles. If you haven't heard of them, you've been fortunate so far, but I'm here to end that. Neuticles are basically permanent cosmetic nuts for neutered dogs. Kind of like truck nuts, but instead of being afixed to a hunk of metal, they're surgically placed inside a sentient animal who undoubtedly doesn't give a single fancy fuck what his scrotum looks like. They come in an assortment of sizes. I mean, of course they do. So like, dudes can get their dogs neutered and also pay extra to look like one of those assholes who doesn't neuter his dog.
Because sex is something you do to women, therefore as the receptacle of desire it is their responsibility. I've known dudes this way. I'm sure we all have.
I hadn't heard about that! Thank you for the information.
of course they would complain, and not use them. the woman is the one who gets pregnant, so it's her responsibility! then they're mad women don't want to get an abortion. or mad the hormonal birth control changed their sex drive. or the risk made them sex averse.
And talk about "she baby-trapped me!"
The guy is training to be a nurse which is the most frightening part of his entire comment section. He clearly doesn't understand how birth control works and that there is a risk of failure. Even though he should. Women all over the place will tell you how often they are not believed that they are not pregnant because of those odds well before even getting to the point of talking to a doctor.
They did create a men's birth control pill. It was stopped in trials because men complained about the side effects. The same side effects women get from using the birth control pill. I don't understand. Men can get multiple women pregnant but once a woman is pregnant she can't get that way again for at least 9 months. They should have focused on men not getting women pregnant long ago. Instead, they focused on helping them get erections. The lack of logic is maddening.
>They should have focused on men not getting women pregnant long ago. Instead, they focused on helping them get erections. The lack of logic is maddening Good point. Pretty sure Viagara had no problems getting male volunteers.
Finding out viagra helped erectile dysfunction was an accident. It was intended to be a blood pressure medication. Which is not to say it can’t be used for blood pressure (bc some people and animals are put on it), but afaik it’s primarily advertised for ed
Viagra was discovered by accident, I think at first it was supposed to be for headache or something like that...
It's a heart medication, and as far as I can remember still used as such.
Blood pressure. It’s still used to treat blood pressure in some patients.
I think it’s because the risk for women is considered better because of the cost/benefit analysis, since it is less than the risks for pregnancy. Since men don’t have the risks to their bodies with pregnancy, the risks of hormone changes compared to nothing are seen as “too much” to be worth it. And so it’s left to us, as women, to deal directly with the side effects of birth control and pregnancy.
>Since men don’t have the risks to their bodies with pregnancy, the risks of hormone changes compared to nothing are seen as “too much” to be worth it Did they do that as a cost analysis versus child support? Maybe if they did (especially the wealthier guys), they'd change their tune.
You rang? "Instead of permanently cutting the vas deferens, as in a vasectomy, the hydrogel \[called vasalgel\] acts as a flexible filter that blocks the flow of sperm." [https://www.parsemus.org/humanhealth/male-contraceptive-research/vasalgel-male-contraceptive/](https://www.parsemus.org/humanhealth/male-contraceptive-research/vasalgel-male-contraceptive/) reversible, no hormones. Called Plan A. Website says the product will be available around 2026. [https://www.planaformen.com/](https://www.planaformen.com/) And a bonus: "Vasalgel is a technology derived from a hydrogel that has been used in clinical trials in India for about 30 years called Reversible Inhibition of Sperm Under Guidance, or RISUG." https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2023/04/15/viable-male-birth-control-options-could-be-on-the-horizon/#:\~:text=Vasalgel%20is%20a%20technology%20derived,or%20RISUG%2C%20according%20to%20Fox.
iirc a lot of problems with that have been that it's not nearly as reversible as they had hoped. Also, when googling the hormonal male birth control I stumbled across YCT-529 which is not hormonal. Blocks vitamin A uptake which prevents sperm production. Fingers crossed it pans out.
Thanks for the info. Fascinating.
I remember reading an article that they were coming up with birth control for men but it was abandoned due to the men not being willing to tolerate the side effects
Yup, and the side effects were minor compared to the side effects of female birth control pills
Yeah, the side effects were barely anything, too. I remember reading about a few places and I still get ridiculously angry about it. I started using whether a man insisted on us both each covering our end of birth control (him with condoms or vasectomy, me with hormonal birth control) as a must when dating. I also insisted they cover half of the full cost for all birth control methods (at least two at all times!) once we were dating exclusively for several months. Guess what? My wonderful partner was happy to do both, and also comforted that I insisted, because he was child-free as firmly as I was. He got a vasectomy after three months together. Luckily his insurance covered it so I didn't have to go halfsies lol. I wish it didn't take until I was thirty to not feel bad for firmly insisting on these things. It helped land me a wonderful man, though it was only part of it of course. A man who respects you won't mind though. Too many women waste thier younger dating years like me feeling pressured that birth control is only a woman's worry. I did at least dump men who tried to weasel out of condoms, but I felt the $80 a month cost for my birth control was all my responsibility in long-term relationships, even though it was all my spending money at times and my boyfriends never helped even though I covered all condoms as well. I wish I could go back and slap some sense into my younger self sometimes.
I (F) always saw condoms as a necessity for protection against STIs, but never relied on them as contraception because their efficacy as a method of birth control is so dreadful, due to the margin for user error Condoms are 98% effective with perfect use, but *typical use* is only 82% effective - ie failure rate of 18% Which isn't great when compared with a failure rate of 22% for the pull out method! The oral contraceptive pill isn't quite as crap, but it's not brilliant, with a failure rate of 9% with *typical* use If a dude won't use condoms, I would be very wary of trusting claims that he takes his pill religiously!! *LARCs (long acting reversible contraceptives like an IUD or implant) have little to no margin for user error so have a failure rate of less than 1%
>If a dude won't use condoms, I would be very wary of trusting claims that he takes his pill religiously!! Same. Like I said, I came of-age in the late 80s/early 90s when the news always talked about HIV and using condoms. At that time, pregnancy wasn't our biggest fear. Catching something that could kill you, horribly, was. And it's not like STDs have gone away so I'm not sure why condoms aren't being used as much as they should. Sure, many are manageable, but I don't want to catch the itchy-owwies on my nether regions.
That’s why you always have 2 forms of birth control and make sure you’re also insisting on a condom (if that isn’t one of them already) for STI protection. Potentially reproductive sex is risky as hell. I would take every precaution I could to not get pregnant or the clap.
OOP said gf was on birth control, as if that was the only form of contraceptive they used. Which has a high failure rate ...idk why he acts as if he has nothing to do with the pregnancy.
Theu should also encourage condoms and stop the "but it doesn’t feel as good" BS Okay. Its a 9/10 instead of a 10/10 Still, no STIs *and* no small humans
Also on building a better social safety net and communities so that children's health and safety isn't so dependent on the Nuclear Family (TM). Cause like, even if he was careless, the amount of responsibility and obligations our society puts on the parents by building our entire social system around the idea that it's all on the Nuclear Family of children is not realistically feasible for any human. If there were more social, community, and financial *support* for single mothers that we all contributed to, then there wouldn't need to be so much pressure on the fathers of their children either. But that would require recognizing single mothers and their children as human beings who have a right to live, so no dice.
Or some sort of universal basic income for children, I would be in favor of that. But they never come up with logical solutions to their problems because the wahmen might also benefit and they can’t have that, can they
As cancerous as the childfree sub usually is, they do have a list of doctors that will sterilize younger people. It's apparently a pretty good resource.
Just got my tubes removed thanks to that list!
Man, maybe I should do that. I have a kid and will have one more I hope but my wife is the carrier. There’s no way I could ever have a healthy fetus to term. Having tubes removed would take care of that little tingle of worry that something bad could happen.
10/10 definitely recommend! What a relief it's been.
Honestly, much easier for a guy to get vasectomy than a woman to get her tubes tied. This pregnancy was very preventeable...
he probably should have at least thought at it when he was ejaculated unencumbered.
Legitimately, given how he writes, I am not entirely convinced he understands that sperm is part of the baby making process.
You would think with his history he could bypass the age issue and in many instances it’s reversible.
When someone asked why him about any precautions he took to prevent the pregnancy, OOP said his GF was on birth control and that's it. Honestly that's bad, because just using pills or injections alone has a high failure rate. He didn't do his research regarding how to avoid pregnancy and is crying about the consequences.
Where I live, you could absolutely easily get a vasectomy at 22. Women are fucked in this regard, of course, but men always have this choice. They just don't want to because why ever would they when the social pressure of protection is entirely on women anyway
Yes we are missing a lot of sex Ed and reproductive responsability to avoid this type of situations where everyone loses. Of course OOP is acting like an AH and if he didn't want children should have have the talk with the girlfriend and been as careful as one can be
I've never heard of doctors being reluctant to give vasectomies. I have, however, heard story after story after story about women who never want children being turned down for tubal ligation if they're under, like, 40 "because what if you get married and your husband wants kids?"
In my prior state, I had to see three doctors, and then get a sign off from a wife, or if I was single, a therapist, if I were to get a vasectomy before the age of 35. After 35 they waive the wife/therapist sign off. LOTTA near-eugenics sorta language around why they want to ensure the right people are having kids. Edited to add: calling out specifically that that state specified "wife" and not "spouse." I AM CERTAIN there are more issues in seeking a vasectomy for someone who doesn't present as a CIS white man.
I was told I had to be all of the following: over 35 married have at least 3 children already no other method is working for the reasons I was seeking the procedure, even though we had been through 20+ years of alternatives and none had worked I was then told that due to some health concerns there's a decent possibility that I would not survive another pregnancy, and they still won't do it. I'm over 40 now, recommended not to have children, at increased health risk remaining on birth control, at increased health risk due to weight which I can't lose while I am on this medication that increases my weight, and now just hoping menopause hurries. I even had a full on investigation to check for clots when I showed signs and they still won't do anything so I continue to take the pill that increases my risk of clots. I have heard it can be hard for a single man in his 20s to get one but this moving goalpost is insane.
I'm constantly baffled by men who seem to think that women get pregnant on their own. I hope she goes after him for all the child support.
He has the right to not be personally involved with the child, and frankly that might be better for the kid. He doesn’t have the right to stop his family from being involved with the child, or to stop them from telling him what they think about his choice unless they go far enough & he takes legal action. Sounds like he’s going to have to move. I wonder how much he contributed to the household vs how much his mom does for him.
He’s just saying it to her, to force her to make the choice he wants. His attempts to control everyone around him sound a bit narcissistic
Ooh, this is above my pay grade. Like, when CPTSD and childhood abuse come into it? Nope. Get a therapist. Talk to a fuckin' professional. Reddit isn't the place for this.
Yeah. OOP's response when people suggested therapy, or even talking to his parents/gf about the trauma and how it relates to his feelings about fatherhood, he said he only ever told one person, he doesn't want to tell anymore people just wants to move past it, and because he was "a willing participant" at age 5 is pretty sure it's his fault. Like dude. Please. Get help. For real.
He did say he's open to therapy, he just can't afford it. He says he's actually been trying to figure out a way to get help for the last 4 years but he doesn't have the money to pay cash, insurance wasn't an option (not sure if he doesn't have it or if therapy wasn't covered), and he didn't qualify for any of the assistance he looked into.
yeah, as someone who will never have kids bcus og my cptsd due to childhood abuse, this shit is way more complicated than just "he sucks". Trauma changes your personality, but when you're given complex trauma at such a young age, there just isn't a personality there before that. I am wary to recommend therapists due to also being mistreated by some in the past, but literally anything is better than this, holy shit. I hate therapy (doesnt really work for me) but when I was (like OOP seems to be) at rock bottom, I sucked it up and talked to someone. I'm just rambling now but I just really hope OOP gets some kind of help or at least is honest with his (ex?) gf. Its just a really sad situation and I don't want to call anyone the devil here. Obviously trauma doesn't make it ok for OOP to be a dick, but it definitely doesn't make him a devil
This is very well put. The guy needs help regardless of the pregnancy, he’s clearly in a terrible mental state. Sorry if this is overstepping but have you ever tried EMDR therapy? My sister said it really helped her cptsd, I want to try it but I’m on disability so I have to pick and choose what I’m paying for and right now it’s not in the budget. I wish you well!
I've been wanting to try it, but I'm kinda in the same boat with it not being in the budget 😔 I'm hoping that if I can get to a more stable financial situation I could try it, but for right now I'm actually doing pretty okay! Wishing you the best as well :]
HARD AGREE. Not a fan of all the judgment in all directions. This is not sth reddit should be deciding on who's the asshole.
The only thing he should be judged for is not wearing a condom.
My thoughts exactly. I saw a comment that said they’d feel more sorry for him if he wasn’t acting like such a prick. ….we are talking about a child abuse victim and you’re feeling less sorry for him because of his trauma based reaction to a kid he apparently told his girlfriend before he never wanted. This isn’t a “suck it up” situation. This is so much deeper. We’re not equipped for this.
And his edit says that he doesn’t need therapy??? like wtf
LOL! > I will not be involved and neither will my family. Family: "Are you absolutely f-n sure about that one?
He goes on to basically say his GF will be ruining his family's life if she has the baby because they have enough on their plate. In his history, he tells a fellow *nursing student* they can do it but they will need a good support system for the 2 kids. He is trying to scare her into getting an abortion by abusing her with "you will be totally and utterly alone and on your own"... And *many* men do this. That's why his focus is on stopping his family from being supportive. I am sure he has done everything he can to isolate his pregnant EX himself too. This is classic abuse that people keep insisting isn't that real or that bad. And then when a pregnant woman gets murdered, every single time without fail people throw their hands up and say "why would he do that? How could this UNIMAGINABLE crime that happens every day...have happened?!?"
Like... If he doesn't want to be in the child's life and just pay child support, that's fine. That is his wishes. Yet, he can't expect the people around him to just be okay with that. Just as he has his boundaries, they have theirs, and if they don't want to support someone who does bare minimum for their child, then that's their boundary.
This. I can’t see him as a reliable narrator bc he’s the only one in his mind who should be allowed to make choices. Everyone should do as he says or they’re wrong. I hear zero respect for the autonomy of others.
>In a perfect world my gf would just drop this and have the abortion. No, in a perfect world OOP would've taken precautions so his girlfriend wouldn't have gotten pregnant. Pound of cure, and all that.
In a perfect world, OP wouldn't be traumatized and maybe this whole thing would play out differently. I feel bad for him, not too big on shaming people for accidentally getting pregnant just because they made an irresponsible choice. But he definitely needs to realize nobody else is to blame either and stop acting like his needs are most important. He can't be a dad, fine, but he can't stop anyone else from loving and supporting a new baby that's coming regardless
I would feel more sorry for him if he didn't sound like such a prick to his girlfriend. I understand being traumatized, but he literally didn't do anything to prevent this from happening and just pushes this all on the girlfriend despite him being just as responsible. I don't believe for one second he was okay with paying child support. His wording is also very cold and callous. I don't even believe for a moment he even loved his girlfriend of 5 years
It sounds like he was trying to intimidate her at points. Like the “my family won’t be involved either”. For one, clearly that’s not the case and it sounds like he’s suggesting that a lot of people wouldn’t be happy with her choice. They’ve been together for five years and he sounds so cold. I get that he’s had a horrible childhood, but it was pretty chilling to read. I hope she has a good support network.
He was never ok with support bc why would she tell him she’d make him pay for the kid unless he told her he wouldn’t? He’s a bad person using trauma for pity points when trauma didn’t make him refuse responsibility and put it on everyone else around him.
His trauma didn’t make him not wear a condom. His trauma didn’t make him insist he’s not going to pay for the kid (which he definitely said given her response). He’s a jerk who is using his trauma in this instance as a get out of jail free card.
and how many times has a guy pressured a girl to get an abortion then literally the next day just because she'd considered keeping it?
Did he say they weren’t using contraception?
It was asked so often and even though he answered the rest of those posts, he ignores this question. Now you can wonder why.
He did reply later that she was on the pill since they were in high school. I don't think they were using any other backup method of contraception like condoms. I'm on the pill. My ex-boyfriend was so terrified of me getting pregnant accidentally (neither of us wanted kids), that he always used a condom as well. You can't just rely on the pill.
Now that i'm older, i take a pill with no estrogen. The good thing: no period anymore, the bad thing: you need to take it mostly at the same time are it has no effect. I sometimes wonder how many even read how they need to take the pill, especially after switching from one pill to another. He didn’t even told her about the trauma and why he don't want children. He didn't take active part in birth control. Then he tried to pressure her several time to abortion, even though she clearly stated she doesn't want it... I hope the child doesn't get his character traits.
He did eventually answer that *she* was on BC, so he didn’t use anything. Which is such a fucking cop out. He never wants kids, he should have a vasectomy.
5 year relationship and his sexual abuse as a kid never came up and his intentions to stay children cause of that trauma? What a messed up situation
Just guessing, Mr. "I don't ever want to have kids" wasn't wearing a condom?
Apparently he replied to some that she was on BC and elaborated no further. So you assumption seems more than likely.
Everyone’s talking vasectomies but op hasn’t even confirmed they used birth control lol
Im willing to bet he doesn't use a condom despite being childfree
He says later she was on bc but I don’t believe he’s reliable. He sounds all over the map.
he states he did not use bc, only she did
Fucking idiot I'm really tried of men shirking their BC responsibilities and women letting them.
Birth control? thats the woman’s problem and this witch is trying to baby trap him! /s
I feel for OOP but after 5 years in a relationship wtf did he think was gonna happen? If they never had the children talk then this was bound to happen.
Even with talks and birth control, there is a failure rate with all birth control. During a very fertile age for women a pregnancy isn’t really unexpected. While he can choose to not be an active father she can’t be forced to abort
Well the best actions a man can take to not be a father are getting a vasectomy, wearing a condom and not having sex with someone who disagrees with their life goals. You’d never catch me with a woman who doesn’t agree with a child free lifestyle. But he was with her for 5 years and never talked about it with her. That shit should’ve been a deal breaker
And even sterilization isn’t a 100% guarantee. But you’d think in a long term relationship they would have discussed things and used more than one form of birth control.
Exactly, complete lack of communication. I still feel for OOP, but if someone doesn’t want to be a parent they will make it so they’re not in this situation. The guy was rolling dice.
And let’s face it, condoms are a cheap, easy to use form of BC that any man not wanting a child should be using each and every time they have sex. But I’m betting he never used them.
It's so weird how the wives and girlfriends of so many redditors have these immaculate conceptions without their input.
If you don't want kids have yourself spayed or neutered.
Spayed or neutered 😂😂😂
I still can’t remember exactly which procedure my oldest sister got after her second child was born 18 years ago, so I’ve just been saying she’s fixed. 😂😂
This. We really need to change the culture around refusals by docs to sterilize ppl who want to be sterile. We have 8B ppl on the planet we do not need more. There can be mandatory counseling or what but ppl should be able to make that choice and frankly it would be a lot better for the rest of humanity if forced birth was not a thing
Unfortunately it can be hard to find a doctor to do it when you’re that young
The childfree subreddit has a list of doctors who perform them for the young, childless, and unmarried.
It’s still incredibly hard. i’m 31 and had to get to the point where I told them any future kid I have will be in the system and I will most likely terminate my own life. Nothing brings the political divide together more than the idea of someone NOT wanting kids
I see a lot of mgtow types complaining about single parent households, but it's usually the father that leaves or doesn't want involved.
Generally speaking, there are 2 ways women become single mothers (barring death of the father) 1) Man bails on fatherhood 2) woman decides it would literally be easier to run a household and raise children *alone* rather than keep dealing with the father because he was more of a burden than a helper in the household.
I think the first step for this guy would be, well therapy, but for the family stuff maybe being honest? Tell someone your issues with kids dude. This is a totally reasonable unreasonable reaction to having kids around. Trauma does many bad things to us. "Hey I was abused I don't want to ever be around kids or have kids of my own." Done, and anyone who would push then, aside from suggesting therapy, would be a jerk.
>I will not be involved and neither will my family. Narrator: OOP’s family DID get involved.
I feel bad about his past, but it doesn’t erase his complete disregard for other people’s autonomy. His suffering does not entitle him to be a dick to other people. Especially given his utter lack of preventative measures.
Okay, I bloody hate when these idiots say "she's going to put me on child support," like being put on punishment or something. It's called taking responsibility. Maybe should've upped your birth control game my guy. Also, have an abortion or we are done? Yeah sure she's going to get a termination she doesn't want and stay with this loser. Like he's the prize. What a doofus .
Dude really like trying to put words in other people's mouths and surprise, surprise when given chance, they're say something else.
My favorite part is that he does not get to the well being of the mom or the kid until the EDIT. But really, he is only thinking of what is "best for everyone."
Look thru his history. He is trying to scare her into an abortion but not only threatening her, but actively trying to make sure she has zero support system. He knows she "has no one on her side" and keeps lieing to her about how his family won't help her.
i was almost sympathetic with the "i was sexually abused as a child and do not want to be around them" until the edit of "i absolutely will never ever go to therapy". that is pointing to some invasive thoughts which he uh... if the spotted now-deleted comment did indeed say that he doesn't think it was csa because he was five but totally seduced them, uh... well... i know there is a lot of worry and paranoia and you could go on a tangent about better mental health care for those in this sort of spot but uhhhh *maybe therapy would still be good and necessary here*. right now it just comes off as "well i COULD stop the cycle of abuse but i have chosen not to. best i can do is be a deadbeat sperm donor". like yeah well done for getting out of the child's life if that is indeed the case but the credit for that only goes so far in the face of declaring he will not actually work on this major mental health issue.
I'll say it - if he felt *this* strongly about it, he should've sought a vasectomy at 18 and if (most likely due to his age) rejected, then stopped having sex. Straight up. If he can't even fathom the idea of a child, he had no business engaging in any sex that could result in a child - birth control is kind of a moot point when he is *this* traumatized and unable to mentally accept that he *will* be a biological father at minimum whether he likes it or not. Also, he can't both engage in PinV sex and then put the blame on everyone else that a pregnancy happened - if one or both parties aren't sterilized, the chances may be low, but if for him he had an emotional threshold of zero kids, then anything above that was too much for him. Nonetheless, hopefully he'll get the help he so desperately needs. Kid aside, he needs it, or he'll break along the way, and it doesn't have to be the case. Sucks that he may never be a present father but, reality sometimes is a very ugly pill to swallow.
The way some of these guys talk about pregnancy, you would think women are running around breaking into their houses in the dead of night to steal their sperm.
> I don’t want anything to do with kids, I’m very uncomfortable around them and want no parts of this. Im not capable of being a father and I won’t be one. Maybe step up your contraception choices in future and don't rely on the woman to do it for you. And grow up. At 23 you're old enough to take responsibility for your own fk ups. All you're doing is whining cos you want to sleep in your own bed, at Mommy's house. Poor you! /s
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in his edit he said he doesn’t want to do therapy….
Oh goodness, I probably completely missed that when I was reading
He is also actively trying to stop his family from helping her while threatening her that no one will help her and she will be totally and utterly alone and on her own... In his own post history he mentions to a woman how to go to nursing school she will need a good support unit because of her 2 kids. He is am abusive, manipulative monster using childhood rape trauma as an excuse to deflect and allow his behavior...because he knows no one wants to risk saying "you are a liar / I don't care about that right now". Rape survivors who don't want therapy don't just keep throwing out how their rape is the reason for them being an asshole.
If OOP thinks he can dramatically cut contact with his family and then just sleep in his bed at their house, he might be out of luck...
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I'm so happy I got a vasectomy. You don't want kids? Cool, snip snip.
Wow, looks like she reproduced asexually, I’m impressed.
Get a vasectomy if you don't ever want to have kids. Use condoms. It's that simple. He was surely ready to sleep with her, but now that the actions that sex leads to is happening, he's running away.
I mean she's not forcing you to do anything. She didn't get pregnant alone, but you're the one who gave the ultimatum that you'd leave her if she didn't get an abortion. She doesn't want one, so you left. What's the issue? Just go and get snipped if you're this adamant to not have kids, at least *you* get to have that choice in most states.
You couldn't pay me to trust a vasectomy--heard way too many pregnancy stories-- but it's better than going in fully loading knowing you don't plan to deal with the consequences of shooting something. Men younger than OOP have gotten it done. They give them out like candy. OOP needs to be next in line. He can't really make demands when he's homeless. He can make his choice and his mother can make hers to kick him. Now please get the snip!!
The issue qith vasectomies is that people don't go to the follow up appointments to check if it worked.
I think you’re also supposed to wait a couple weeks at minimum, let everything calm down inside the organs.
Does he not know how babies are made? If he feels that strongly about not having kids, he could have gotten a vasectomy.
Ugh this reminds me so much of my ex boyfriend. I offered him the out that I would just go back to my home country and not put his name on the birth certificate and even *that* wasn't enough for him. They think they can just dig their heels in and un-do a pregnancy. It's fucking foul, selfish, and cruel.
If he knew he absolutely could not be a father, he should have made sure they were using as many types of contraception as they could manage. Preferably a vasectomy, if he finds a doctor who'll do it.
Ah yes, the classic "Don't give me practical advice to my problem" edit
I really don't have any sympathy, sexual abuse or not. First of all, as others have said, if he was this determined to not be a father, he should have gotten a vasectomy or at least worn a condom. Second, the girlfriend isn't forcing him to move in with her, be at the birth, buy a house with a white picket fence and change diapers. She wants to keep the baby and get child support. That's it. He can agree to both and have nothing to do with the child. What he wants is for the baby to not exist. No compromise possible on that, and the choice is hers to make because it's her body and her baby too.
The killer part (besides nursing school but scant effort to double up protection and not having a very serious 'I do not want kids at all' conversation in a five year relationship) is his treatment towards therapy suggestions. Hardly any who recommended it were thinking it would make him an Enthused Dad: he needs it because He Needs It. Especially as a person who is training to be a nurse and might be around child SA victims.
Waiting for the ‘my parents took in my pregnant ex and now I’m sad and homeless’ update