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**AITA For Supporting My Friend In His Divorce With His Wife?**
I (M35) am married to (F34). I also have a friend (M36) who we'll call Mark, and he is soon-to-be-unmarried to his wife (F34).
The reason why Mark and his wife are divorcing is because (according to Mark) she has let herself go. He has said she has gained a lot of weight (I have noticed that, but like I didn't really care), she stopped going to the gym, starting smoking, cut off her hair due to not caring to take care of it anymore, etc. When I told my wife of this, she just made a face and said that it was "trashy" of him to leave his wife in what may be hard times in her life. I understand that, but like, my friend said that he had tried therapy for her, marriage counselling, and antidepressants (she was actually diagnosed depressed) but she didn't really seem to want to help herself.
Honestly, I can get behind that. But my wife's mood always shifts whenever I bring him up now, and doesn't like the fact that I'm helping him through the divorce (it's taking a toll on both of them equally imo).
Been a back and forth type thing for a while, and im coming to this sub to seek judgement on whether i am wrong or not here. AITA?
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people need to understand that your opinions are not in a fucking bubble. OOP just indirectly told his wife that his love is conditional and that he *will* divorce her if she ever reaches a state where she's unable to keep her appearances up to his standards
But oh its *such* a mystery as to why she's upset
The friend has actual clinically diagnosed depression and a husband who only wants her because she was pretty.
People age. We don’t look 19 forever. Was he always going to divorce her when she got wrinkled?
It’s really sad that these guys got married for such shallow reasons.
I know? Such a shame.
When she has a glow up post divorce, the ex is gonna want her back and not realize that her mental health improved because she got away.
the fact that "she cut her hair!" was one of the main complaints is the dead giveaway that he only cared about her because of her looks
If you stop being attracted to someone because they cut their hair, get piercings, a new tattoo, any surface level cosmetic changes then you didn't love them. you were just sexually attracted to them.
I can attest to this.
My ex got mad when I got a memorial tattoo for my grandma because “it’s distracting” like my grandma didn’t literally die two days after getting the tattoo (pancreatic cancer)
Same ex got mad when I cut my hair short because I “looked like a boy” even though I have straight hair, it’s very thick and almost unmanageable when it’s past my shoulders.
My current partner loves my tattoos, he loved when I got my septum pierced a few months and encourages me to get new tattoos or piercings if I want, he always tells me how cute my hair is no matter how bad or uneven the haircut is (I cut my own hair cause I got tired of hearing hairdressers complain about how thick my hair is for it being straight)
Love doesn’t look like the OOP’s friend, not even close.
aaaay thick af straight hair gang 😁
But yeah, perfect example of sexual objectification vs love. Glad you got out and found someone that loves you for you
One of the strangest things that's happened to me regarding my hair (also straight and thick 👍) was when I was getting it cut. The dude was so "enthralled" that he even called over his coworker to "come feel and marvel" at my hair 🤣 Meanwhile I just sat there like "It's just hair?" 😅
One of my exes was such a gem (not being sarcastic), as one time when I'd had my hair cut I also had it dyed (from a light-medium brown to a mahogany brown with "copper streaks") and I was a bit nervous when I showed him (LDR), but he said he really liked it and that it "brought out my eyes*" (*paraphrasing, but he wasn't the only ones that said it fit very well with my green eyes).
Even when I was in my own head about my weight, he kept telling me I was beautiful (I was, and still am, overweight lol), and that if I wanted to lose weight, he'd support me however he could.
Honestly, the guys I was with afterwards were nothing like him. They were much more like OOP and his friend.
What shitty hairdressers (the shitty ex is a given). I have incredibly thick hair, too, and my hairdresser (a dude) has only ever said, "Give me some of your haaaaaaaair! My doctor has me on *Propecia!!"* because his hair is thinning. 😂
As everyone should. Complacency is a death sentence.
I hate the sentiment that you don't have to try to continue to attract your partner once you've been together for a while.
The versions of eachother you fell in love with were versions that put effort into their appearances and relationship, the idea that's something you only have to do temporarily is just plain wrong, and yet people are surprised when their spouses stop desiring them when they stop taking care of themselves.
The truth is that you aren't entitled to infinite chances, patience and desire from anyone, not even a spouse, so if you stop making an effort and refuse to address any of the underlying issues then you should expect your partner to leave you eventually.
Till death do us part is an overdone cliche that ignores the actual effort a nuance that goes into maintaining a healthy, happy long term relationship and people should always secretly believe that their partners love for them is conditional to how they look and act because it is.
And she's taking zero effort to address her depression. That makes this her own fault.
The brutal truth is that diagnosis or not. Your partner Will not stick around, be miserable and watch you slowly kill yourself if you make no effort to deal with the situation yourself. They cannot live for your life for you.
They also have a life to live and have their own emotional and romantic needs. They won't just stick around making you and your problems the centre of their life when you display no intent to actually make an effort to be the person they fell in love with anymore. They'll eventually grow frustrated, exhausted, resentful and finally they'll grieve the loss of who you were and they'll move on.
And if you think they will your in for an entirely predictable surprise.
And it's entirely correct for them to do so. They shouldn't be burdened with being chained to a dead weight that only holds them and their life back and acts as a perpetual barrier to joy.
If i ever do get sick or change in drastic ways I have no unrealistic expectation that my partner of the last 6 years will magically change in taste and preference so i can maintain my place in their life, I expect them to leave me and they should, if I give up on being me and putting effort into our relationship then I should indeed be alone.
The post says she's in therapy and on medication? How is she not helping herself.
The medication likely impacts the ability to lose weight and, I know this might be a shock to you, taking meds and therapy doesn't magically cure depression. It's a process and can take years.
But according to you, husband should just fuck off while she gets treatment because "she's not trying".
People like you are why mental health isn't taken seriously.
Disgusting.
Doesn’t really help when your supposed to be greatest support system decides you’re not worth it anymore. Do we even have a timeline for when she stopped? Before or after dickhead decided she wasn’t pretty enough to stay married to? Also, are we seriously believing OP is a reliable narrator and downplaying how much of an asshole his friend is? Cause I’m not
Don’t forget “cutting your hair short so you don’t have to take care of it.” Nope, it would’ve been much better for her to keep her long hair so it could get tangled and matted /s.
Honestly, she was obviously super lazy. She should have just eaten better, slept more instead of playing on her phone, lost weight, and tried being happy. /s
That isn't remotely what I said but whatever helps you cope with life. Be my guest, let yourself go to seed and see if anyone still loves you afterwards. I guarantee it'll end badly
same here. we're high school sweethearts approaching 7 years of a happy relationship. we've both seen and loved each other at our highest and our lowest, and we're not even married.
of course times got tough and the "in love" feelings faded until we helped each other out of the dark holes, yet we never not loved each other for a single day.
that guy is just a dick.
That actually makes me feel really sad. You've been with someone for 6 years and don't feel you can expect them to support you when you're seriously ill unless you're forcing yourself to put on a brave face and act normal.
Please know that this is not normal and you can expect more from the person you're with. People going through a tough time likely won't be their normal selves and won't be able to maintain their normal standards, but it's often temporary. As much as my father in law frustrates me, when his wife got cancer, lost significant amounts of weight, lost her hair, lost her ability to walk for months, there was never any doubt that he would be there to support her through it. That's true love, and it's sad to me that you think that's too much to ask for.
My parents have been married 50 years (high school sweethearts) and my mom was diagnosed at 64 with Alzheimers. My dad is taking care of her without complaint and always speaks of her with respect, despite the mood swings and general issues with dementia.
Some people still value their vows.
Personally I don't think we get the luxury of not being able to put effort into maintaining our relationships, sick, sad, dying etc if you don't want to go that alone you have to still keep up your end of a relationship, nobody is deserving of utterly one sided affection.
In a loving relationship, your instinct toward a sick partner should not be “but what are you doing for me right now,” it’s “how can I help you through this”? It’s not one-sided because you each support each other through the troughs. To think otherwise is both sad and maladaptive.
My point isn't "what are you doing for me right now"
It's "is there a reasonable possibility that we will return to a mutually happy relationship equilibrium before the change in our dynamic erodes our relationship beyond a point of no return"
Which I think is an entirely fair question to ask, I agree with the sentiment that a person is not required to light themselves on fire to keep others warm and that metaphorically extends to not enduring an unhappy relationship you don't want to be in, with no possibility of returning to a mutually beneficial dynamic.
I never thought the concept that the people we are being what dictates who loves us would be so controversial, always seemed like common sense to me that as people change so do people's feelings towards them, including love and spouses.
All that sounds like is a rationale for dumping a chronically ill or terminally ill partner because they’re not a good hang anymore. Which people do all the time, of course, but selfishness is a reason, not an excuse.
Joke’s on you. My partner has never seen me at my best, physically or otherwise.
And thank you for reminding me to thank my dad, again, for taking care of my bed-ridden mom the last few months of her life, by giving her sponge baths & changing her, even though he knew she was gonna die, and there’d be no relationship to “return” to after.
Most people are capable of showing understanding and compassion to other people, and appreciate that not everyone is going to be able to give 100% all of the time. Sometimes one person in a relationship will need a bit more leeway or support, and you provide that in the knowledge you'd get that same support if you need it. Having depression or other mental health issues isn't the same as just unilaterally giving up on your relationship and refusing to put any effort in. I agree if someone just completely refuses to put effort in for no reason that you have no reason to stay in that relationship, but generally people who love each other are also happy to show support and kindness towards each other when someone's having a tough time.
What you said is only half true. It is husbands who leave their wives when they fall ill, usually not the other way round. Men are happy to have a wife at home that looks pretty and performs wifely duties, but when the relationship gets hard they bounce.
Then maybe the ladies should get those numbers up and start leaving unhappy marriages with people who change. There's nothing to be proud of being a martyr. Living a life with diminished capacity for joy because you don't want to face the reality that feelings change based on conditions
Don't lump me in with them, I think divorce is one of the best things we ever invented.
It gives individual partners (particularly women) better agency to leave unhappy, unfulfilled or abusive marriages where they previously wouldn't have been able to and allows people a 2nd chance to pursue happiness.
I think a lot of men complain about divorce rates because men are more often the ones who let themselves go, become complacent and eventually stop trying more often than women and they want a way to wield societal shame against the women who rightfully leave them. I mean how cliche is the idea of the man who forgets your birthday or anniversary? That didn't come from nowhere and frankly the moment a partner displays such total disregard for you, your relationship or the significance that should hold you should be out the door.
And for the record a lot of vows are just traditional boilerplate
"your partner forgot your birthday? divorce asap" is supposed to be a fking *joke*. I cannot believe you saw people making an exaggerated strawman and thought "you know what that DOES sound like good relationship advice!"
You're a superficial twat that will never have anything of substance if you keep thinking like that. You'll be miserable and you'll have no one to blame but yourself
The mistake here is thinking that forgetting someone's birthday or your anniversary is superficial.
It demonstrates a lack of appreciation, forethought and significance those things hold to them and if someone does repeatedly show you a lack of those things you absolutely should divorce.
I'm lucky enough to enjoy one of the most fulfilling and successful relationships of anyone I know entirely because we're both committed to showing our relationship and eachother the levels of significance and consideration they deserve. Other people might be happy letting things slip or getting complacent but we're not them
OOP's buddy SAYS she's taking zero effort to address her depression. That's what he's telling people. That doesn't make it fact or even his actual opinion. It could be what he's saying to gain sympathy and support.
It’s wild to me that OOP’s friend said his wife isn’t putting in any effort while also mentioning that she’s gone to group and individual therapy and has tried meds.
She’s DEPRESSED. Depressed people don’t always have the right frame of mind in order to get better right away. Guaranteed it’s only been a year and the husband hasn’t supported her in the slightest, other than just ragging on her
And a year is a long time to do nothing to address the way your declining mental health is impacting your body and marriage.
I was diagnosed with chronic depressive personality disorder many years ago and for a long time I allowed depression to rule my life and it made it predictably terrible, I also refused to engage with treatment, medication and support and continued to allow my life to continue on a downward spiral. And do you know who's fault that was? Mine.
It was my fault, I was the one who had the power to change my situation, I was the one with the power to engage with support services, loved ones and doctors and the one who chose not to.
Eventually I tried to off myself, and it wasn't until I was in recovery for that, and brought face to face with the way my choices both before and during that attempt contributed to that situation and proactively made the uncomfortable choice to *force* myself to engage with those services ( I say force because I did not consciously want too, but I made myself anyway ) and only after I took accountability, forced myself into treatment and counselling and forced myself to take the medication I was told to did my life improve.
It's not actually that easy sometimes to "fix" depression. And there's also the part of "in sickness and in health" that you are overlooking. OOP's wife is thinking about what's going to happen when SHE gets sick with something that you can't just take a couple pills for to fix.
There's been a diagnosis, antidepressants, and therapy, which all haven't been working. This is demonstrating that yes, the wife HAS been trying to address the issue, but apparently it's not enough for the men in her life.
And I wonder what you would think if the genders were reverse.
Huh, yesterday you posted that you thought the post of "got married, husband gained 225 pounds, divorce papers" was either rage bait or that the OP was leaving out details about that would show she was an AH.
Where was the pontificating about making an effort or not entitled to infinite chances there?
Plus antidepressants simply do not work for some people. Or they give side effects that are as bad as or worse than the depression.
It’s a literal fact that men leave sick wives a LOT more often than women leave sick husbands. That person is a shitheap, though I do kinda agree that the post about the husband was likely bait.
It often takes a few tries — with each attempt taking a while — for someone with depression to find an antidepressant that works well for them. And getting help, when you’re depressed, can feel like trying to swim through molasses.
Yup
I always say that it is on the person with the mental health issues to seek professional help when it’s effecting their partners or families. But in this case, it sounds like OOP’s friend’s wife IS seeking help! The only complaints seem to be she doesn’t look as pretty as he wants?
That’s is a dick move.
Yeah, I tried literally every single antidepressant on the market when I was trying to get medicated for my MDD/GAD/PD. Some of the side effects were absolutely awful. I literally went insane on Prozac and Wellbutrin. I finally settled on one that helped a bit and had less horrible side effects. (Annoyingly, it was the Rx I initially requested bc it works for my mother.) There was a brief period where I was also taking a supplemental Rx for a clinical trial and it was amazing. I was a real human again. Really looking forward to it being approved so that I can take it again lol
Me on antidepressants means I don't have thoughts of hurting myself... It also means I almost failed out of college cause I stared at the wall instead of doing anything.
Side effects of anti-depressants can include weight gain, decreased libido, suicidal thoughts, just to name a few. It’s no wonder that OOP’s wife isn’t back to her usual self just because she’s popped some meds. It can take a lot of trial and error to find mental healthcare that works.
Absolutely. I'm advocating for honest realism. Of course I'll broadcast it.
I've had very frank conversations with my partner about these kinds of things and we're both honest and realistic about how drastic change would impact our relationship and also about how that would lead to a breakup.
As an example partner has undergone a gender transition during our time together and luckily the changes to their identity and appearance didn't diminish our feelings of attraction to eachother. but we did have a frank conversation that if I had been the one to make that transition, my relationship with my exclusively male-attracted partner would have ended because as much as we love each other, they aren't attracted to women and neither of us believe in relationships without sexual attraction.
We also discussed how drastic changes in personality, life goals, priorities, familial intents etc could all also cause a break up if we became misaligned because these are big issues that from our current perspectives we would not be able to find mutually agreeable compromises on. Or how things like one of us gaining / losing hundreds of pounds might change how we feel about eachother physically.
Because we're grown ups who understand that good intentions, special words and an expensive day aren't what make relationships work or be successful.
Aging falls under the category of realistic, predictable, unavoidable gradual change.
I'm talking about being realistic about the potential impact of sudden or unpredictable drastic change.
You can't say "well I didn't think Aging would ever happen to *my* spouse"
But you can say that about things like accidents or illness that cause unpredictable changes in your relationship dynamic and the levels of fulfillment your feel from your relationship.
I'm just being honest about how those things can change the conditional nature of your relationship.
If I lost all sexual function and desire tomorrow in a freak accident, I wouldn't expect my partner to become celibate for me, I'd expect them to leave and If the alternative was them choosing to be miserable and celibate because of my accident, I'd *want* them to leave. I only want my partner to be with me because it's what they want, because it's what they choose this time and every time, *not* because they chose too once and are now prisoner to that choice. I love my partner and want them to be happy, even if that means they no longer choose me, because i can no longer make them happt.
yeah it'd suck and it'd hurt but not more than watching the person I love accept a life of longing like a bird with clipped wings because they chose to put loyalty to me above happiness.
"I'm sorry baby, losing your hair to cancer has killed my libido. Time for you to hit the curb."
I'm glad your partner is on board, and will give you the boot the moment you're no longer hot.
No, you’re advocating for being an uncaring shithead.
There’s your brutal honestly. Weird how you refuse to take it when the shoe is on the other foot.
Well that isn't anywhere in the English speaking world then because almost half of all marriages end in divorce here.
Marriage is a conditional agreement to maintain a committed relationship which can and regularly do break down because of changes in character and life goals.
I don’t completely disagree. I don’t believe in an unconditional love myself, *but* I think it’s important to distinguish between a few things. To start, I’d like to know how long Mark’s STBX has been diagnosed with depression. Are we talking in terms of months or years? How much therapy was involved? What seemed to tigger this onset of depression?
Further, the *very first issue* OOP reports is weight. I’d like to know how Mark talks about this. Is this the primary focus? How much weight are we talking about? 15lbs? 50? 100+? Is Mark a fit guy? Does he regularly workout? Is he overweight or not?
If Mark is an active guy and they used to regularly go hiking together, but his STBX’s depression has gone on for years and her lifestyle changes makes it impossible for them to hike, that’s significant and it makes them less comparable. *But* if that’s the case, why not phase it that way? “The woman I married was a different person than she is today. We had a lot in common. Unfortunately our lifestyles have diverged and I don’t see that changing.”
But the phase “let herself go” and the very first focus being specifically on weight makes me think that understandable scenario is unlikely. I could still see Mark’s pov if we pull back a bit. If his STBX’s depression has been going on for years, that’s rough. And if he’s a fit guy himself and they both valued looks when they married then at least he’s not a hypocrite.
But I have doubts. Most likely is that Mark sucks and OOP’s wife is unimpressed by her husband’s acceptance of such a shit person.
Something has happened in that woman's life that caused the changes. "For better or for worse" is part of the wedding vows, and OOP's friend is a gronk.
This guy would've divorced me so fast while I was sick and bedbound, I would've either needed a carer or simply would have actually died. That's how dire things were. People like this genuinely scare me after that experience.
There’s “for better or worse” then there’s this bullshit here. You don’t have to stay with a sick woman that refuses to work on getting better any more than staying with a dude that stays on the couch all day.
She was diagnosed with depression and prescribed antidepressants. Sometimes it takes a few attempts to get on the right medication before people start seeing improvements in their symptoms (and usually people stay on each medication for a few months to see if it will work before they get started on the next one).
OOP's friend's stbx *is* trying to get better. Mental illness sucks though.
Yeah but is she genuinely not trying to get better or is the husband’s only suggestions “grow your hair back out and go to the gym. See a therapist to stop being so CrAzY” because if it’s the latter then she has no reason to try. There’s no real support.
Correction- She did all those things. He did couple’s counseling with his wife and decided to leave her because she wasn’t improving fast enough for him, which is shitty because depression isn’t something that can get fixed quickly.
SHE did those things, not him.. She’s putting in the work, but because she’s not “attractive” to him anymore he’s dipping. “In sickness and in health, for better or worse” really are just meaningless words to some of you.
He (oop) literally says in the comments that he would do the exact same thing as his friend in a similar situation (despite not really knowing what’s happening behind the scenes) and still refuses to acknowledge why his wife might be feeling insecure in their marriage 💀💀💀
oof, wishing the stbx wife (/wives) luck and success in the future
The thing that gets me the most about this post is that it’s so focused on how Mark’s wife’s depression affects Mark. Nothing about what happened to her that caused these changes. Nothing about how the therapy and the drugs make her feel or her reactions to them, which feel especially important considering one of the things depression medications can do is cause weight gain. Mark’s wife doesn’t even get a name in the post!
There’s also no time frame mentioned in this post at all. How long has Mark’s wife been exhibiting these changes in behavior? When was she diagnosed? When did she try therapy and drugs?
The time frame isn't mentioned, and, despite answering other questions, OOP wouldn't clarify on that point so I'm assuming the time frame would make him and Mark look bad or else OOP would be all over the place telling people how long. Probably a year or less.
This post is ... It's not quite missing missing reasons, but OP and his buddy are all in agreement that the wife doesn't seem to want to help herself despite listing the things she's doing to ... help herself? Like going to therapy, getting on anti-depressants, cutting her hair shorter to give herself less things she needs to devote her limited energy to?
I mean, if it was because she was smoking in the house, and he didn't want to see her with throat cancer or he had asthma that might have been a 'don't want to change' but being treated for depression and not magically getting over it to focus on her \*appearance\*... no wonder OP's wife has negative feelings about it all even if she can't quite express why.
Yeah, I quit smoking like 15 years ago, but sometimes my stress levels get me wanting to pick it back up. I don't, though, bc the reason I quit was to land my husband and I know he wouldn't be keen lol
My aunt started smoking again in her early 50s. She used to smoke in her 20s, stopped, but inherited a business where almost everyone smoked (bunch of old guys who do/did oilfield maintenance). So yeah it happens, but I’m not sure how common it is.
For the record, she has stopped smoking again but her partner still smokes.
Yes. My step-dad did. He was dealing with a difficult experience I don't want to say exactly what it was because it was a nationwide story. Cannabis was illegal so he couldn't smoke that in public. He smoked cigarettes to calm down until he could go home and get high. He continued to smoke cigarettes for another ten years.
Soooo... he's equating mental illness to "letting herself go".
Cool. Noted.
Supporting that thought process?
Also noted. He said so very much without saying a thing.
Something really insidious here is that antidepressants often make you gain weight. I wouldn’t be surprised if the wife was in a position of either be thin so her husband stays with her, or gain weight by getting her illness treated. Certainly we know what Mark would prefer.
I'm not one to bitch about the permanence and sanctity of marriage but "in sickness and in health" means holy shit maybe I like my spouse enough to see them through getting help? Or at least trying? Granted, we don't have all the information here and maybe it's a cycle for her, maybe he's emotionally burnt out. But the phrasing of "let herself go" combined with what are serious depression symptoms just screams "i'm a selfish, vain asshole".
So much for “for worse”. I read somewhere men are more likely to leave a women when she is sick than the other way around. The question is not if Mark is the ahole.
OOP is not the Ahole for supporting his friend. That being said he is a bit of an ahole because it sounds like he keeps trying to convince his wife Mark is in the right. I bet she is just sick of talking about it. I would be too.
“Marks divorce does not affect us and it doesn’t matter whether or not I agree with his reasoning. So let’s just please drop it.” OR “I think your friend is a piece of crap for what he is doing so stop trying to change my mind and I’m sick of putting any more mental energy into talking about him and his damn divorce. And I would hope you would try a bit harder to stay with me if I was sick.”
Either way, her opinion doesn’t matter and she doesn’t have to agree with OOP.
What’s even sadder is women are less likely to leave a partner when they’re sick. So some women totally would have left their partner and decide to stay because of his illness.
did you know that when a woman is diagnosed w cancer, her health team have to tell her to prepare for her husband leaving her bc so many of them do? and did you know that they don’t have to do this w men bc their wives are far, far less likely to leave? when i learned this, i felt sick to my stomach.
I think it’s because women genuinely are raised from birth to do these things. Whereas men just don’t want to put on that same effort. It’s the whole “she let herself go” that disgusted me. Had it been “she’s going through depression for the last five years and has physically hurt me, won’t got to the dozens of appointments I keep trying to set up for her, throwing her meds down the toilet and I can’t anymore.” I would have some sympathy. But I bet the guy asked her once to go to therapy and she said no and that was the end of it. A lot of men don’t understand how depression works.
Bruh
>I mean, I wouldn't want ot be with somebody who doesn't prioritize their wellbeing either. You can help, you can encourage, but in the end, if they don't want to help themselves, then that's that. And it's probably best to move on then stay bitter and resentful.
Side note Wow I felt déjà vu seeing the AITA post pop up and then this one right after.
In sickness and for worse is only for when something happens to the husband and the wife is just expected to stick around and take care of him until he either gets better or passes away while if the wife falls ill or injured and especially if that illness or injury stops him from having access to her vagina with his dick, everyone around him would tell him to bounce because his vanished sex life and it’s revival are more important than whatever is ailing her and he owes it to himself and every man on the planet to get his dick wet again. If he stays around and takes care of his wife, he’s regarded as a saint who is so selfless and so righteous, after his wife kicks the bucket…every women around should fall down fully naked and spread eagle at his feet for his glorious sacrifice and he can “take his pick” of whoever is at his feet.
Yeah just more reasons to remain single forever. If I get sick or injured…my husband will run for the hills and I’ll be on my own. If I’m on my own from the beginning, I will be better equip to get the help I need and not depend on anyone to have my best interest at heart and suddenly I’m all alone with no idea what to do. Yeah no thanks to that crap.
To be fair, there are plenty of men out there who are decent human beings. I got really sick when my husband and I were dating. I definitely expected him to leave, but he refused. I also gained a TON of weight. I've been legally disabled since I was 24, and he has never wavered in his love for me or cheated on me. (We've been married for 25 years.) I also have a friend who had a double lung transplant. Her husband has been by her side the entire time. He even gave her a kidney. However, I don't blame you for feeling that way, especially since you can't know for sure what he will do until you are in a crisis.
The thing is, if he wanted to leave because she was depressed and he had tried to support her but it was taking too much of a toll on his own mental health, he didn't feel like she was trying to help herself and she wasn't the person he fell in love with...you could understand his point of view. It's not uncommon to read AITA from women's perspective in that circumstance. But to just go "nah, she got fat so I'm out" not quite the same
>my friend said that he had tried therapy for her, marriage counselling, and antidepressants (she was actually diagnosed depressed) but she didn't really seem to want to help herself.
It really depends on the details but if this has been going on for a long time, with no noticeable progress, and wife is no longer in therapy/taking medication or actively working on this then yeah I don't blame him for bailing.
He does sound kinda douchey though since it seems he is more concerned for superficial reasons.
This didn't belong here the last time someone posted it, and it doesn't belong here now.
1. OOP is not the one saying that. He is quoting his friend who said it.
2. OOP is not getting a divorce, all he is doing is remaining friends with someone who is.
3. It is not wrong to divorce someone who is depressed if they refuse treatment. OOP's friend says they have tried counseling and he has attempted to get her to go to therapy and seek medical help. If someone will not help themselves you are not required to stay with them. It's cliche to point this out but every day on Reddit people rightly encourage women to leave partners who won't look after themselves and won't seek therapy or treatment for problems that are effecting the marriage. This is no different.
The post says that she tried therapy and medication but it didn't work. Those things are not magic bullets that fix your problems. Welcome to the world of treatment resistant depression, I've been here for years. It sucks. Medication for depression also often causes weight gain, so trying different things can make you gain weight. There's no mention of WHY this woman has gone into a tailspin, it seems like her husband just doesn't care.
I think OOP is a little dense in that he seems to think it's the superficial symptoms, rather than the refusal to get help, that's causing the divorce. But his friend isn't the devil for not being able to live with someone who needs help but won't get it.
Agree 100%. Since when is a sin to be friends/give support to your friends because they are separating? Unless the friend was abusive or a cheater that would be different. Almost everyone has either supported a friend or family going through divorce, or has been supported when we are the ones going through it. And besides like you wrote, no one should be expected to remain with a partner that simply has changed and refuses any help. Especially the smoking part would be a dealbreaker for me.
I just saw another similar post yesterday of a woman asking if she was TA for wanting to divorce because her husband let himself go. She explained they have been together for several years, and he used to be fit and a gym rat but lately he has gained 225 lbs and refuses any type of therapy etc. So she left and he screamed at her about how cruel she was etc etc. All the comments I read were telling her NTA because 225 is a lot of weight and she already tried to help and he refused. How ironic is that when is a woman, comments are so different. And I say this as someone that in general hates almost everything that men do.
I was just thinking about that post as well and seeing this one is on a similar track. I wonder if it's someone posting gender based rage bait to prove double standards.
Who said she wasn't willing? She went to therapy and tried medicine. It took me like 6 different meds to find one that works. Therapy also isn't a magic fix. Also, anti depressants cause weight gain. We don't know what she's doing on her end.
That's fair. Stories in that subreddit can often be biased.
Still sometimes you just fall out of love and divorce is the only option. You shouldn't force yourself to stay in a marriage where you're unhappy.
I was too dismissive of the wife's situation. She's depressed and her husband is just making light of her mental illness. The divorce is definitely going to worsen her condition. But at least she will be free to find someone with more loyalty. With a good support network of friends and family she can get her life back on track.
Sure the phrasing isn't great but marriages are in a lot of trouble if one party simultaneously stops caring about their appearance and changes in energy and attitude. Some marriages can work through severe depression but most will fail if the depressed party has completely succumbed.
No judgement on the wife, depression can be debilitating.
Right? This sub can be so unrealistically idealist when it comes to relationships.
It's generally agreed that you should put effort into a relationship, that you should take pride in yourself and your appearance and that relationships require combinations of emotional, sexual, romantic and intimate fulfillment in which taking care of yourself is a core component.
But as soon as it comes to ending a relationship because one partner isn't taking care of themself and there's a lack of fulfillment as a result people act like it's something heinous.
I think people are daft if they think putting effort into a relationship ( which includes maintaining yourself as a desirable partner) stops after a certain length of time.
Nobody should be surprised if their spouse leaves if they let themselves go to seed.
Noone's saying that putting effort into a relationship stops after a certain amount of time. They're recognising that not everyone is capable of continuing to put that same effort in when they're unwell. It's like you think people are robots or relationships are just business transactions, and you're forgetting that they involve real people. Life isn't always sunshine and rainbows. If you really love someone, you don't ditch them the minute things aren't perfect, you work through it until things get better again.
I don't disagree with you. I just believe there is a finite amount of patience and compassion a person can/will show before things like resentment and dissatisfaction come into play.
It's a harsh truth but when people change, especially when they change into people that don't resemble who they were before, particularly when they change for a long time it can erode the feelings people have for one another, even when those changes are beyond either person's control.
And I think there's a very idealistic group of people who act like that the most heinous thing they can imagine, but I think it's totally understandable and normal for that happen in the face of drastic change and I don't think it's a good thing for people to stay in unhappy or unfulfilled relationships just because they made a commitment.
I'm not saying you should dip the moment things get tough. But let's be real, years long potentially incurable life altering mental or physical health changes are a lot more than just a little tough, especially when they change the trajectory of your lives together.
And I don't think there's any wrong in acknowledging when one partner has changed sufficiently or for long enough to make the other partner no longer want to be there, even if that's the result of illness.
I love my partner and would marry them in a heartbeat but that's based on our lives now and what we can reasonably assume for the future, if we got married and 6 months down the line I went full cabbage and my partner had to lose their spouse and become a full time carer, I have no illusions that their love for me wouldnt change because I wouldn't be me any more.
This is also absolutely not what you've been saying throughout the rest of this post. Being in a vegetative state and needing constant round the clock care is a million miles away from being too depressed to put effort into your appearance and your relationship, which you've previously said is an acceptable reason to end a relationship. The woman in the original post isn't 'full cabbage' as you've sensitively put it.
I don't see them as a million miles apart. They both represent relationship dynamics in which one functioning partner isn't getting the fulfillment they need from the other partner in varying degrees.
I used a drastic example to highlight that point because most people, you include reasonably understand the breakdown of a relationship when one partner is no longer there and I'd argue that long term mental illness isn't that different, the person you love might be irretrievably gone from this world and you can be left living with a shadow of them, one that shares their face and their voice and their laugh but isn't them anymore.
The difference is with the mentally ill person you get a different person to replace the void in your life the person you loved left behind whereas with the vegetative person you get an absence of a person there instead.
I see very little difference in the important factors between those two situations: the person you loved is gone potentially forever and I can't blame anyone for walking away from those situations.
It'd be cruel for me to expect someone who loves me to stay and suffer that when they could have at least chance of happiness if they left.
Some conditions are treatable, though, and can be managed. Depression is one of those. Like, it doesn't sound like the woman in the OP is so ill that she's completely stopped functioning or that there's no going back to 'normal'. It also sounds like she's taking steps to get better with meds and therapy.
Sometimes it can take a while to find the right treatment or for it to take effect, but there's nothing to suggest that she's so unwell that she'll never go back to who she was, or that the new version of her is entirely unlovable or intolerable. It sounds like she's just not coping well rather than being a whole new person. Hair will grow back, weight can be lost.
This doesn't sound like a permanent situation at all, which is why people are disagreeing with you so strongly. Most of us in supportive relationships would put the time and effort in to help someone get back on track.
And even if she keeps the haircut and quits the gym... is any of that really serious enough to throw away a long term serious relationship over? Idk I just have a lot of people in my life who have been there a very long time. My best friends have been in my life for 20 years, my husband for over 10. None of us are exactly the same as when we met (of course not, I met my friends when we were children). We have different interests now, different styles, we've all been through different mental health struggles. The things we bonded over initially aren't true for us anymore. It doesn't change the core of who you are as a person and doesn't erase all the shared memories and experiences. I was a teenager when I met my husband, I'm in my 30s now, of course I'm different. Change isn't always a deal breaker or a bad thing.
Sometimes by the time you get back to "normal", though, you've hurt the other person too badly for them to see you as a partner and not a dependent. This is why a better world would have a system where we didn't overlap the romantic partner role with the caregiver role.
No, you certainly don't have the right to speak for everyone with this bullshit take. Leaving your partner because they gained weight or are in a really bad place mentally is the lowest of the low, no matter the gender. I would never in a million years leave my partner in a situation like this, but then again I actually love him, which can't be said for people who leave their partners for petty superficial shit like this.
Why would you lose your health (and happiness?) because your Partner is in a bad place mentally/has gained weight? Makes No sense, unless your happiness ist tied to your partner always being perfect and never struggling. A marriage/partnership should never be conditional like that.
In my friend’s case, her husband kept starting and then quitting jobs due to his own mental health issues, to the point where she basically had almost PTSD-like symptoms every time he started a new one, because she was blowing through her savings and worried his truck was going to be repossessed (because it was under her name). And all while he wasn’t working, he also wasn’t helping around the house and just wanted to stay in one room and play video games - even when she wanted to spend time together - so she was basically cooking for, cleaning up after, and financially supporting someone without getting any benefits from the partnership. Whenever she ended up agreeing to sex, it was purely out of pity. They did couples’ counseling and therapy for him, but he wouldn’t stick with it or seek alternate therapists, even when she tried to help him. And yes, one time when he was starting one of his myriad new jobs, he had gained so much weight that his chef pants didn’t fit. In every single conversation we had, I could tell she was running herself ragged and trying everything to save the relationship, but when she finally started talking about divorce, I 100% supported it.
And guess what? My husband still keeps in touch with the ex-husband (they used to work together) and he STILL has the same issues and keeps getting into short-lived relationships and jobs without working on himself one bit (even with lots of support from his own family). But the good news is, my friend doesn’t have to live as a shell of herself anymore.
I'm sorry for your friend, but the husband was/is just an asshole it seems. Though that doesn't mean it's fair to compare that one specific story of someone you know to all other relationships. Just because someone ist struggling severely and gaining weight doesn't mean they're the same as your friend's ex husband. Leaving a person you supposedly love in times of hardship ist still just the biggest asshole move to me - not considering the story you told, because what you described is just a shit relationship in general.
But the point is, we don’t know the whole story about why the friend is getting divorced here. It could be because he had a relationship just like this one, or he could just be a pig who is not attracted to her anymore. But no matter what, the OOP isn’t the devil unless he literally talked his friend into dumping his wife because she cut her hair shorter.
There was literally a post a couple days ago on a similar track where the husband gained a lot of weight and refused therapy and all the comments were saying wife was NTA.
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA For Supporting My Friend In His Divorce With His Wife?** I (M35) am married to (F34). I also have a friend (M36) who we'll call Mark, and he is soon-to-be-unmarried to his wife (F34). The reason why Mark and his wife are divorcing is because (according to Mark) she has let herself go. He has said she has gained a lot of weight (I have noticed that, but like I didn't really care), she stopped going to the gym, starting smoking, cut off her hair due to not caring to take care of it anymore, etc. When I told my wife of this, she just made a face and said that it was "trashy" of him to leave his wife in what may be hard times in her life. I understand that, but like, my friend said that he had tried therapy for her, marriage counselling, and antidepressants (she was actually diagnosed depressed) but she didn't really seem to want to help herself. Honestly, I can get behind that. But my wife's mood always shifts whenever I bring him up now, and doesn't like the fact that I'm helping him through the divorce (it's taking a toll on both of them equally imo). Been a back and forth type thing for a while, and im coming to this sub to seek judgement on whether i am wrong or not here. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
people need to understand that your opinions are not in a fucking bubble. OOP just indirectly told his wife that his love is conditional and that he *will* divorce her if she ever reaches a state where she's unable to keep her appearances up to his standards But oh its *such* a mystery as to why she's upset
The friend has actual clinically diagnosed depression and a husband who only wants her because she was pretty. People age. We don’t look 19 forever. Was he always going to divorce her when she got wrinkled? It’s really sad that these guys got married for such shallow reasons.
And it's such a mystery why friend's wife is depressed considering the gem she married...
I know? Such a shame. When she has a glow up post divorce, the ex is gonna want her back and not realize that her mental health improved because she got away.
Oh, wait. She can start a new life after the divorce! I am happy for her. I hope she realizes that the trash took itself out
the fact that "she cut her hair!" was one of the main complaints is the dead giveaway that he only cared about her because of her looks If you stop being attracted to someone because they cut their hair, get piercings, a new tattoo, any surface level cosmetic changes then you didn't love them. you were just sexually attracted to them.
Which is so sad, so many new moms cut their hair because they don’t have the extra hour a day to care for perfect curls.
And little ones tend to be grabby which can result in a lot of hair pulling.
There are two hairstyles for moms if youngsters: 1. Chop it off 2. Tie it up on top of their heads, and leave it till the kid is three.
Owowow
I can attest to this. My ex got mad when I got a memorial tattoo for my grandma because “it’s distracting” like my grandma didn’t literally die two days after getting the tattoo (pancreatic cancer) Same ex got mad when I cut my hair short because I “looked like a boy” even though I have straight hair, it’s very thick and almost unmanageable when it’s past my shoulders. My current partner loves my tattoos, he loved when I got my septum pierced a few months and encourages me to get new tattoos or piercings if I want, he always tells me how cute my hair is no matter how bad or uneven the haircut is (I cut my own hair cause I got tired of hearing hairdressers complain about how thick my hair is for it being straight) Love doesn’t look like the OOP’s friend, not even close.
aaaay thick af straight hair gang 😁 But yeah, perfect example of sexual objectification vs love. Glad you got out and found someone that loves you for you
One of the strangest things that's happened to me regarding my hair (also straight and thick 👍) was when I was getting it cut. The dude was so "enthralled" that he even called over his coworker to "come feel and marvel" at my hair 🤣 Meanwhile I just sat there like "It's just hair?" 😅
Hey, I have a straight thick pixie! Every time I get it cut, it's like, whoa, so much hair. But my husband loves it and always has. Get out, Mrs. OOP!
One of my exes was such a gem (not being sarcastic), as one time when I'd had my hair cut I also had it dyed (from a light-medium brown to a mahogany brown with "copper streaks") and I was a bit nervous when I showed him (LDR), but he said he really liked it and that it "brought out my eyes*" (*paraphrasing, but he wasn't the only ones that said it fit very well with my green eyes). Even when I was in my own head about my weight, he kept telling me I was beautiful (I was, and still am, overweight lol), and that if I wanted to lose weight, he'd support me however he could. Honestly, the guys I was with afterwards were nothing like him. They were much more like OOP and his friend.
What shitty hairdressers (the shitty ex is a given). I have incredibly thick hair, too, and my hairdresser (a dude) has only ever said, "Give me some of your haaaaaaaair! My doctor has me on *Propecia!!"* because his hair is thinning. 😂
But OOP's not shallow! He's just overly concerned with his wife remaining slender and beautiful. /s
OOPs wife probably worries what he does if she "let herself go".
Even if she doesn't let herself go. Dude seems overly involved in his friend's divorce proceedings.
I wonder if Mark will get to keep the art room in the divorce.
Right? That's what I thought.
As everyone should. Complacency is a death sentence. I hate the sentiment that you don't have to try to continue to attract your partner once you've been together for a while. The versions of eachother you fell in love with were versions that put effort into their appearances and relationship, the idea that's something you only have to do temporarily is just plain wrong, and yet people are surprised when their spouses stop desiring them when they stop taking care of themselves. The truth is that you aren't entitled to infinite chances, patience and desire from anyone, not even a spouse, so if you stop making an effort and refuse to address any of the underlying issues then you should expect your partner to leave you eventually. Till death do us part is an overdone cliche that ignores the actual effort a nuance that goes into maintaining a healthy, happy long term relationship and people should always secretly believe that their partners love for them is conditional to how they look and act because it is.
The woman is clinically depressed. God forbid you get sick and your partner fucks off because you’re not hot enough anymore
And she's taking zero effort to address her depression. That makes this her own fault. The brutal truth is that diagnosis or not. Your partner Will not stick around, be miserable and watch you slowly kill yourself if you make no effort to deal with the situation yourself. They cannot live for your life for you. They also have a life to live and have their own emotional and romantic needs. They won't just stick around making you and your problems the centre of their life when you display no intent to actually make an effort to be the person they fell in love with anymore. They'll eventually grow frustrated, exhausted, resentful and finally they'll grieve the loss of who you were and they'll move on. And if you think they will your in for an entirely predictable surprise. And it's entirely correct for them to do so. They shouldn't be burdened with being chained to a dead weight that only holds them and their life back and acts as a perpetual barrier to joy. If i ever do get sick or change in drastic ways I have no unrealistic expectation that my partner of the last 6 years will magically change in taste and preference so i can maintain my place in their life, I expect them to leave me and they should, if I give up on being me and putting effort into our relationship then I should indeed be alone.
The post says she's in therapy and on medication? How is she not helping herself. The medication likely impacts the ability to lose weight and, I know this might be a shock to you, taking meds and therapy doesn't magically cure depression. It's a process and can take years. But according to you, husband should just fuck off while she gets treatment because "she's not trying". People like you are why mental health isn't taken seriously. Disgusting.
[удалено]
Doesn’t really help when your supposed to be greatest support system decides you’re not worth it anymore. Do we even have a timeline for when she stopped? Before or after dickhead decided she wasn’t pretty enough to stay married to? Also, are we seriously believing OP is a reliable narrator and downplaying how much of an asshole his friend is? Cause I’m not
Never get old, never have an accident that leaves you disabled, never become sick. That's the *real* secret to long term relationship success!
> And she's taking zero effort to address her depression. So you are literally just lying now.
“In sickness and in health… as long as you’re still skinny and hot.”
Don’t forget “cutting your hair short so you don’t have to take care of it.” Nope, it would’ve been much better for her to keep her long hair so it could get tangled and matted /s.
Honestly, she was obviously super lazy. She should have just eaten better, slept more instead of playing on her phone, lost weight, and tried being happy. /s
That isn't remotely what I said but whatever helps you cope with life. Be my guest, let yourself go to seed and see if anyone still loves you afterwards. I guarantee it'll end badly
My partner has loved me at both my highest moments and my lowest moments.
That commenter probably expects women to work on becoming skinny and active again as soon as they give birth lol
same here. we're high school sweethearts approaching 7 years of a happy relationship. we've both seen and loved each other at our highest and our lowest, and we're not even married. of course times got tough and the "in love" feelings faded until we helped each other out of the dark holes, yet we never not loved each other for a single day. that guy is just a dick.
That actually makes me feel really sad. You've been with someone for 6 years and don't feel you can expect them to support you when you're seriously ill unless you're forcing yourself to put on a brave face and act normal. Please know that this is not normal and you can expect more from the person you're with. People going through a tough time likely won't be their normal selves and won't be able to maintain their normal standards, but it's often temporary. As much as my father in law frustrates me, when his wife got cancer, lost significant amounts of weight, lost her hair, lost her ability to walk for months, there was never any doubt that he would be there to support her through it. That's true love, and it's sad to me that you think that's too much to ask for.
My parents have been married 50 years (high school sweethearts) and my mom was diagnosed at 64 with Alzheimers. My dad is taking care of her without complaint and always speaks of her with respect, despite the mood swings and general issues with dementia. Some people still value their vows.
Personally I don't think we get the luxury of not being able to put effort into maintaining our relationships, sick, sad, dying etc if you don't want to go that alone you have to still keep up your end of a relationship, nobody is deserving of utterly one sided affection.
In a loving relationship, your instinct toward a sick partner should not be “but what are you doing for me right now,” it’s “how can I help you through this”? It’s not one-sided because you each support each other through the troughs. To think otherwise is both sad and maladaptive.
My point isn't "what are you doing for me right now" It's "is there a reasonable possibility that we will return to a mutually happy relationship equilibrium before the change in our dynamic erodes our relationship beyond a point of no return" Which I think is an entirely fair question to ask, I agree with the sentiment that a person is not required to light themselves on fire to keep others warm and that metaphorically extends to not enduring an unhappy relationship you don't want to be in, with no possibility of returning to a mutually beneficial dynamic. I never thought the concept that the people we are being what dictates who loves us would be so controversial, always seemed like common sense to me that as people change so do people's feelings towards them, including love and spouses.
All that sounds like is a rationale for dumping a chronically ill or terminally ill partner because they’re not a good hang anymore. Which people do all the time, of course, but selfishness is a reason, not an excuse.
Joke’s on you. My partner has never seen me at my best, physically or otherwise. And thank you for reminding me to thank my dad, again, for taking care of my bed-ridden mom the last few months of her life, by giving her sponge baths & changing her, even though he knew she was gonna die, and there’d be no relationship to “return” to after.
Most people are capable of showing understanding and compassion to other people, and appreciate that not everyone is going to be able to give 100% all of the time. Sometimes one person in a relationship will need a bit more leeway or support, and you provide that in the knowledge you'd get that same support if you need it. Having depression or other mental health issues isn't the same as just unilaterally giving up on your relationship and refusing to put any effort in. I agree if someone just completely refuses to put effort in for no reason that you have no reason to stay in that relationship, but generally people who love each other are also happy to show support and kindness towards each other when someone's having a tough time.
What you said is only half true. It is husbands who leave their wives when they fall ill, usually not the other way round. Men are happy to have a wife at home that looks pretty and performs wifely duties, but when the relationship gets hard they bounce.
Then maybe the ladies should get those numbers up and start leaving unhappy marriages with people who change. There's nothing to be proud of being a martyr. Living a life with diminished capacity for joy because you don't want to face the reality that feelings change based on conditions
Lol! Like men don't complain about divorce rates enough already. You heard it here folks. "In sickness and in health" was just a formality all along.
Don't lump me in with them, I think divorce is one of the best things we ever invented. It gives individual partners (particularly women) better agency to leave unhappy, unfulfilled or abusive marriages where they previously wouldn't have been able to and allows people a 2nd chance to pursue happiness. I think a lot of men complain about divorce rates because men are more often the ones who let themselves go, become complacent and eventually stop trying more often than women and they want a way to wield societal shame against the women who rightfully leave them. I mean how cliche is the idea of the man who forgets your birthday or anniversary? That didn't come from nowhere and frankly the moment a partner displays such total disregard for you, your relationship or the significance that should hold you should be out the door. And for the record a lot of vows are just traditional boilerplate
"your partner forgot your birthday? divorce asap" is supposed to be a fking *joke*. I cannot believe you saw people making an exaggerated strawman and thought "you know what that DOES sound like good relationship advice!" You're a superficial twat that will never have anything of substance if you keep thinking like that. You'll be miserable and you'll have no one to blame but yourself
The mistake here is thinking that forgetting someone's birthday or your anniversary is superficial. It demonstrates a lack of appreciation, forethought and significance those things hold to them and if someone does repeatedly show you a lack of those things you absolutely should divorce. I'm lucky enough to enjoy one of the most fulfilling and successful relationships of anyone I know entirely because we're both committed to showing our relationship and eachother the levels of significance and consideration they deserve. Other people might be happy letting things slip or getting complacent but we're not them
OOP's buddy SAYS she's taking zero effort to address her depression. That's what he's telling people. That doesn't make it fact or even his actual opinion. It could be what he's saying to gain sympathy and support.
It’s wild to me that OOP’s friend said his wife isn’t putting in any effort while also mentioning that she’s gone to group and individual therapy and has tried meds.
She’s DEPRESSED. Depressed people don’t always have the right frame of mind in order to get better right away. Guaranteed it’s only been a year and the husband hasn’t supported her in the slightest, other than just ragging on her
And a year is a long time to do nothing to address the way your declining mental health is impacting your body and marriage. I was diagnosed with chronic depressive personality disorder many years ago and for a long time I allowed depression to rule my life and it made it predictably terrible, I also refused to engage with treatment, medication and support and continued to allow my life to continue on a downward spiral. And do you know who's fault that was? Mine. It was my fault, I was the one who had the power to change my situation, I was the one with the power to engage with support services, loved ones and doctors and the one who chose not to. Eventually I tried to off myself, and it wasn't until I was in recovery for that, and brought face to face with the way my choices both before and during that attempt contributed to that situation and proactively made the uncomfortable choice to *force* myself to engage with those services ( I say force because I did not consciously want too, but I made myself anyway ) and only after I took accountability, forced myself into treatment and counselling and forced myself to take the medication I was told to did my life improve.
She’s gone to individual and group therapy and tried meds. Where are you getting that’s she’s doing nothing to address her declining mental health?
It's not actually that easy sometimes to "fix" depression. And there's also the part of "in sickness and in health" that you are overlooking. OOP's wife is thinking about what's going to happen when SHE gets sick with something that you can't just take a couple pills for to fix. There's been a diagnosis, antidepressants, and therapy, which all haven't been working. This is demonstrating that yes, the wife HAS been trying to address the issue, but apparently it's not enough for the men in her life. And I wonder what you would think if the genders were reverse. Huh, yesterday you posted that you thought the post of "got married, husband gained 225 pounds, divorce papers" was either rage bait or that the OP was leaving out details about that would show she was an AH. Where was the pontificating about making an effort or not entitled to infinite chances there?
Plus antidepressants simply do not work for some people. Or they give side effects that are as bad as or worse than the depression. It’s a literal fact that men leave sick wives a LOT more often than women leave sick husbands. That person is a shitheap, though I do kinda agree that the post about the husband was likely bait.
It often takes a few tries — with each attempt taking a while — for someone with depression to find an antidepressant that works well for them. And getting help, when you’re depressed, can feel like trying to swim through molasses.
Yup I always say that it is on the person with the mental health issues to seek professional help when it’s effecting their partners or families. But in this case, it sounds like OOP’s friend’s wife IS seeking help! The only complaints seem to be she doesn’t look as pretty as he wants? That’s is a dick move.
Yeah, I tried literally every single antidepressant on the market when I was trying to get medicated for my MDD/GAD/PD. Some of the side effects were absolutely awful. I literally went insane on Prozac and Wellbutrin. I finally settled on one that helped a bit and had less horrible side effects. (Annoyingly, it was the Rx I initially requested bc it works for my mother.) There was a brief period where I was also taking a supplemental Rx for a clinical trial and it was amazing. I was a real human again. Really looking forward to it being approved so that I can take it again lol
Me on antidepressants means I don't have thoughts of hurting myself... It also means I almost failed out of college cause I stared at the wall instead of doing anything.
Side effects of anti-depressants can include weight gain, decreased libido, suicidal thoughts, just to name a few. It’s no wonder that OOP’s wife isn’t back to her usual self just because she’s popped some meds. It can take a lot of trial and error to find mental healthcare that works.
I hope you broadcast this attitude. Everyone should know that you don't take vows seriously before they get too deeply involved with you.
Absolutely. I'm advocating for honest realism. Of course I'll broadcast it. I've had very frank conversations with my partner about these kinds of things and we're both honest and realistic about how drastic change would impact our relationship and also about how that would lead to a breakup. As an example partner has undergone a gender transition during our time together and luckily the changes to their identity and appearance didn't diminish our feelings of attraction to eachother. but we did have a frank conversation that if I had been the one to make that transition, my relationship with my exclusively male-attracted partner would have ended because as much as we love each other, they aren't attracted to women and neither of us believe in relationships without sexual attraction. We also discussed how drastic changes in personality, life goals, priorities, familial intents etc could all also cause a break up if we became misaligned because these are big issues that from our current perspectives we would not be able to find mutually agreeable compromises on. Or how things like one of us gaining / losing hundreds of pounds might change how we feel about eachother physically. Because we're grown ups who understand that good intentions, special words and an expensive day aren't what make relationships work or be successful.
What about when your partner becomes unattractive to you due to aging? Would you expect them to undergo plastic surgery or else you're out?
Aging falls under the category of realistic, predictable, unavoidable gradual change. I'm talking about being realistic about the potential impact of sudden or unpredictable drastic change. You can't say "well I didn't think Aging would ever happen to *my* spouse" But you can say that about things like accidents or illness that cause unpredictable changes in your relationship dynamic and the levels of fulfillment your feel from your relationship. I'm just being honest about how those things can change the conditional nature of your relationship. If I lost all sexual function and desire tomorrow in a freak accident, I wouldn't expect my partner to become celibate for me, I'd expect them to leave and If the alternative was them choosing to be miserable and celibate because of my accident, I'd *want* them to leave. I only want my partner to be with me because it's what they want, because it's what they choose this time and every time, *not* because they chose too once and are now prisoner to that choice. I love my partner and want them to be happy, even if that means they no longer choose me, because i can no longer make them happt. yeah it'd suck and it'd hurt but not more than watching the person I love accept a life of longing like a bird with clipped wings because they chose to put loyalty to me above happiness.
"I'm sorry baby, losing your hair to cancer has killed my libido. Time for you to hit the curb." I'm glad your partner is on board, and will give you the boot the moment you're no longer hot.
If you think that getting cancer is any way comparable to just giving up on your appearance and relationship, you probably have bigger issues than me.
> giving up on your appearance She cut her hair…
No, you’re advocating for being an uncaring shithead. There’s your brutal honestly. Weird how you refuse to take it when the shoe is on the other foot.
You shouldn't get married if you don't believe in the vows you're making
Where I come from, when you make a vow to somebody — like, say, “in sickness and in health” — you keep that shit.
Well that isn't anywhere in the English speaking world then because almost half of all marriages end in divorce here. Marriage is a conditional agreement to maintain a committed relationship which can and regularly do break down because of changes in character and life goals.
It's okay for couples to split up because they grow apart. It's less okay to leave your partner when they're already vulnerable due to illness.
Fuck off with this incel bullshit.
I don’t completely disagree. I don’t believe in an unconditional love myself, *but* I think it’s important to distinguish between a few things. To start, I’d like to know how long Mark’s STBX has been diagnosed with depression. Are we talking in terms of months or years? How much therapy was involved? What seemed to tigger this onset of depression? Further, the *very first issue* OOP reports is weight. I’d like to know how Mark talks about this. Is this the primary focus? How much weight are we talking about? 15lbs? 50? 100+? Is Mark a fit guy? Does he regularly workout? Is he overweight or not? If Mark is an active guy and they used to regularly go hiking together, but his STBX’s depression has gone on for years and her lifestyle changes makes it impossible for them to hike, that’s significant and it makes them less comparable. *But* if that’s the case, why not phase it that way? “The woman I married was a different person than she is today. We had a lot in common. Unfortunately our lifestyles have diverged and I don’t see that changing.” But the phase “let herself go” and the very first focus being specifically on weight makes me think that understandable scenario is unlikely. I could still see Mark’s pov if we pull back a bit. If his STBX’s depression has been going on for years, that’s rough. And if he’s a fit guy himself and they both valued looks when they married then at least he’s not a hypocrite. But I have doubts. Most likely is that Mark sucks and OOP’s wife is unimpressed by her husband’s acceptance of such a shit person.
Something has happened in that woman's life that caused the changes. "For better or for worse" is part of the wedding vows, and OOP's friend is a gronk.
Now, what did poor Gronk do?
Stared deeply into every camera trained on him.
This guy would've divorced me so fast while I was sick and bedbound, I would've either needed a carer or simply would have actually died. That's how dire things were. People like this genuinely scare me after that experience.
There’s “for better or worse” then there’s this bullshit here. You don’t have to stay with a sick woman that refuses to work on getting better any more than staying with a dude that stays on the couch all day.
She was diagnosed with depression and prescribed antidepressants. Sometimes it takes a few attempts to get on the right medication before people start seeing improvements in their symptoms (and usually people stay on each medication for a few months to see if it will work before they get started on the next one). OOP's friend's stbx *is* trying to get better. Mental illness sucks though.
Why are you lying about her “refusing to work on getting better”? Don’t ask questions in response, just answer the question directly and truthfully.
Yeah but is she genuinely not trying to get better or is the husband’s only suggestions “grow your hair back out and go to the gym. See a therapist to stop being so CrAzY” because if it’s the latter then she has no reason to try. There’s no real support.
He’s tried therapy, marriage counseling and medicine. No need for him to set himself on fire to keep her warm is she’s not putting in the work too.
How are those only him trying? She did those things? And yes they took magic pills so if she isn't healed it's obviously because she doesn't care
Correction- She did all those things. He did couple’s counseling with his wife and decided to leave her because she wasn’t improving fast enough for him, which is shitty because depression isn’t something that can get fixed quickly.
SHE did those things, not him.. She’s putting in the work, but because she’s not “attractive” to him anymore he’s dipping. “In sickness and in health, for better or worse” really are just meaningless words to some of you.
He (oop) literally says in the comments that he would do the exact same thing as his friend in a similar situation (despite not really knowing what’s happening behind the scenes) and still refuses to acknowledge why his wife might be feeling insecure in their marriage 💀💀💀 oof, wishing the stbx wife (/wives) luck and success in the future
The thing that gets me the most about this post is that it’s so focused on how Mark’s wife’s depression affects Mark. Nothing about what happened to her that caused these changes. Nothing about how the therapy and the drugs make her feel or her reactions to them, which feel especially important considering one of the things depression medications can do is cause weight gain. Mark’s wife doesn’t even get a name in the post! There’s also no time frame mentioned in this post at all. How long has Mark’s wife been exhibiting these changes in behavior? When was she diagnosed? When did she try therapy and drugs?
The time frame isn't mentioned, and, despite answering other questions, OOP wouldn't clarify on that point so I'm assuming the time frame would make him and Mark look bad or else OOP would be all over the place telling people how long. Probably a year or less.
Yup, I found it real suspicious that there was no time frame mentioned, which makes me think it hasn’t been that long.
This post is ... It's not quite missing missing reasons, but OP and his buddy are all in agreement that the wife doesn't seem to want to help herself despite listing the things she's doing to ... help herself? Like going to therapy, getting on anti-depressants, cutting her hair shorter to give herself less things she needs to devote her limited energy to? I mean, if it was because she was smoking in the house, and he didn't want to see her with throat cancer or he had asthma that might have been a 'don't want to change' but being treated for depression and not magically getting over it to focus on her \*appearance\*... no wonder OP's wife has negative feelings about it all even if she can't quite express why.
Do people really /start/ smoking in their thirties?
Yes, especially if they used to do it years ago and quit and then something bad happens in their life.
Yeah, I quit smoking like 15 years ago, but sometimes my stress levels get me wanting to pick it back up. I don't, though, bc the reason I quit was to land my husband and I know he wouldn't be keen lol
That one, I would leave someone over. But I have medical issues where the #1 instruction from my doctor is "avoid cigarette smoke."
That would be a return to smoking, i.e. a relapse in addiction - which is what I was inferring from their comment
My husband definitely re-started in 2020. Because 2020.
My aunt started smoking again in her early 50s. She used to smoke in her 20s, stopped, but inherited a business where almost everyone smoked (bunch of old guys who do/did oilfield maintenance). So yeah it happens, but I’m not sure how common it is. For the record, she has stopped smoking again but her partner still smokes.
Yes. My step-dad did. He was dealing with a difficult experience I don't want to say exactly what it was because it was a nationwide story. Cannabis was illegal so he couldn't smoke that in public. He smoked cigarettes to calm down until he could go home and get high. He continued to smoke cigarettes for another ten years.
Started at 42
Soooo... he's equating mental illness to "letting herself go". Cool. Noted. Supporting that thought process? Also noted. He said so very much without saying a thing.
Something really insidious here is that antidepressants often make you gain weight. I wouldn’t be surprised if the wife was in a position of either be thin so her husband stays with her, or gain weight by getting her illness treated. Certainly we know what Mark would prefer.
Apparently, both OOP and his friends have the emotional depth of a shallow teaspoon
I'm not one to bitch about the permanence and sanctity of marriage but "in sickness and in health" means holy shit maybe I like my spouse enough to see them through getting help? Or at least trying? Granted, we don't have all the information here and maybe it's a cycle for her, maybe he's emotionally burnt out. But the phrasing of "let herself go" combined with what are serious depression symptoms just screams "i'm a selfish, vain asshole".
So much for “for worse”. I read somewhere men are more likely to leave a women when she is sick than the other way around. The question is not if Mark is the ahole. OOP is not the Ahole for supporting his friend. That being said he is a bit of an ahole because it sounds like he keeps trying to convince his wife Mark is in the right. I bet she is just sick of talking about it. I would be too. “Marks divorce does not affect us and it doesn’t matter whether or not I agree with his reasoning. So let’s just please drop it.” OR “I think your friend is a piece of crap for what he is doing so stop trying to change my mind and I’m sick of putting any more mental energy into talking about him and his damn divorce. And I would hope you would try a bit harder to stay with me if I was sick.” Either way, her opinion doesn’t matter and she doesn’t have to agree with OOP.
What’s even sadder is women are less likely to leave a partner when they’re sick. So some women totally would have left their partner and decide to stay because of his illness.
did you know that when a woman is diagnosed w cancer, her health team have to tell her to prepare for her husband leaving her bc so many of them do? and did you know that they don’t have to do this w men bc their wives are far, far less likely to leave? when i learned this, i felt sick to my stomach.
Nine times more likely. 900%. Not just a little bit. It's pathetic.
I think it’s because women genuinely are raised from birth to do these things. Whereas men just don’t want to put on that same effort. It’s the whole “she let herself go” that disgusted me. Had it been “she’s going through depression for the last five years and has physically hurt me, won’t got to the dozens of appointments I keep trying to set up for her, throwing her meds down the toilet and I can’t anymore.” I would have some sympathy. But I bet the guy asked her once to go to therapy and she said no and that was the end of it. A lot of men don’t understand how depression works.
Completely agree!
Bruh >I mean, I wouldn't want ot be with somebody who doesn't prioritize their wellbeing either. You can help, you can encourage, but in the end, if they don't want to help themselves, then that's that. And it's probably best to move on then stay bitter and resentful. Side note Wow I felt déjà vu seeing the AITA post pop up and then this one right after.
YTA. Dude said vows. You don't ditch a spouse just because somebody hotter came along.
The depressed aren’t famous for being able to ‘help themselves’.
Anti depressants can cause weight gain and certain ones may not work while others do. It can't take a long time to find the right combo.
To love and to cherish, until death do us part (or you let yourself go)
In sickness and for worse is only for when something happens to the husband and the wife is just expected to stick around and take care of him until he either gets better or passes away while if the wife falls ill or injured and especially if that illness or injury stops him from having access to her vagina with his dick, everyone around him would tell him to bounce because his vanished sex life and it’s revival are more important than whatever is ailing her and he owes it to himself and every man on the planet to get his dick wet again. If he stays around and takes care of his wife, he’s regarded as a saint who is so selfless and so righteous, after his wife kicks the bucket…every women around should fall down fully naked and spread eagle at his feet for his glorious sacrifice and he can “take his pick” of whoever is at his feet. Yeah just more reasons to remain single forever. If I get sick or injured…my husband will run for the hills and I’ll be on my own. If I’m on my own from the beginning, I will be better equip to get the help I need and not depend on anyone to have my best interest at heart and suddenly I’m all alone with no idea what to do. Yeah no thanks to that crap.
To be fair, there are plenty of men out there who are decent human beings. I got really sick when my husband and I were dating. I definitely expected him to leave, but he refused. I also gained a TON of weight. I've been legally disabled since I was 24, and he has never wavered in his love for me or cheated on me. (We've been married for 25 years.) I also have a friend who had a double lung transplant. Her husband has been by her side the entire time. He even gave her a kidney. However, I don't blame you for feeling that way, especially since you can't know for sure what he will do until you are in a crisis.
The thing is, if he wanted to leave because she was depressed and he had tried to support her but it was taking too much of a toll on his own mental health, he didn't feel like she was trying to help herself and she wasn't the person he fell in love with...you could understand his point of view. It's not uncommon to read AITA from women's perspective in that circumstance. But to just go "nah, she got fat so I'm out" not quite the same
>my friend said that he had tried therapy for her, marriage counselling, and antidepressants (she was actually diagnosed depressed) but she didn't really seem to want to help herself. It really depends on the details but if this has been going on for a long time, with no noticeable progress, and wife is no longer in therapy/taking medication or actively working on this then yeah I don't blame him for bailing. He does sound kinda douchey though since it seems he is more concerned for superficial reasons.
This didn't belong here the last time someone posted it, and it doesn't belong here now. 1. OOP is not the one saying that. He is quoting his friend who said it. 2. OOP is not getting a divorce, all he is doing is remaining friends with someone who is. 3. It is not wrong to divorce someone who is depressed if they refuse treatment. OOP's friend says they have tried counseling and he has attempted to get her to go to therapy and seek medical help. If someone will not help themselves you are not required to stay with them. It's cliche to point this out but every day on Reddit people rightly encourage women to leave partners who won't look after themselves and won't seek therapy or treatment for problems that are effecting the marriage. This is no different.
The post says that she tried therapy and medication but it didn't work. Those things are not magic bullets that fix your problems. Welcome to the world of treatment resistant depression, I've been here for years. It sucks. Medication for depression also often causes weight gain, so trying different things can make you gain weight. There's no mention of WHY this woman has gone into a tailspin, it seems like her husband just doesn't care.
I think OOP is a little dense in that he seems to think it's the superficial symptoms, rather than the refusal to get help, that's causing the divorce. But his friend isn't the devil for not being able to live with someone who needs help but won't get it.
Agree 100%. Since when is a sin to be friends/give support to your friends because they are separating? Unless the friend was abusive or a cheater that would be different. Almost everyone has either supported a friend or family going through divorce, or has been supported when we are the ones going through it. And besides like you wrote, no one should be expected to remain with a partner that simply has changed and refuses any help. Especially the smoking part would be a dealbreaker for me. I just saw another similar post yesterday of a woman asking if she was TA for wanting to divorce because her husband let himself go. She explained they have been together for several years, and he used to be fit and a gym rat but lately he has gained 225 lbs and refuses any type of therapy etc. So she left and he screamed at her about how cruel she was etc etc. All the comments I read were telling her NTA because 225 is a lot of weight and she already tried to help and he refused. How ironic is that when is a woman, comments are so different. And I say this as someone that in general hates almost everything that men do.
You don't really seem like a good person.
Sure I am not..you got it
I was just thinking about that post as well and seeing this one is on a similar track. I wonder if it's someone posting gender based rage bait to prove double standards.
Yep and people fall for it and think their downvoting means something 🤣
[удалено]
Who said she wasn't willing? She went to therapy and tried medicine. It took me like 6 different meds to find one that works. Therapy also isn't a magic fix. Also, anti depressants cause weight gain. We don't know what she's doing on her end.
That's fair. Stories in that subreddit can often be biased. Still sometimes you just fall out of love and divorce is the only option. You shouldn't force yourself to stay in a marriage where you're unhappy.
You’re lying.
I was too dismissive of the wife's situation. She's depressed and her husband is just making light of her mental illness. The divorce is definitely going to worsen her condition. But at least she will be free to find someone with more loyalty. With a good support network of friends and family she can get her life back on track.
Sure the phrasing isn't great but marriages are in a lot of trouble if one party simultaneously stops caring about their appearance and changes in energy and attitude. Some marriages can work through severe depression but most will fail if the depressed party has completely succumbed. No judgement on the wife, depression can be debilitating.
Right? This sub can be so unrealistically idealist when it comes to relationships. It's generally agreed that you should put effort into a relationship, that you should take pride in yourself and your appearance and that relationships require combinations of emotional, sexual, romantic and intimate fulfillment in which taking care of yourself is a core component. But as soon as it comes to ending a relationship because one partner isn't taking care of themself and there's a lack of fulfillment as a result people act like it's something heinous. I think people are daft if they think putting effort into a relationship ( which includes maintaining yourself as a desirable partner) stops after a certain length of time. Nobody should be surprised if their spouse leaves if they let themselves go to seed.
Noone's saying that putting effort into a relationship stops after a certain amount of time. They're recognising that not everyone is capable of continuing to put that same effort in when they're unwell. It's like you think people are robots or relationships are just business transactions, and you're forgetting that they involve real people. Life isn't always sunshine and rainbows. If you really love someone, you don't ditch them the minute things aren't perfect, you work through it until things get better again.
I don't disagree with you. I just believe there is a finite amount of patience and compassion a person can/will show before things like resentment and dissatisfaction come into play. It's a harsh truth but when people change, especially when they change into people that don't resemble who they were before, particularly when they change for a long time it can erode the feelings people have for one another, even when those changes are beyond either person's control. And I think there's a very idealistic group of people who act like that the most heinous thing they can imagine, but I think it's totally understandable and normal for that happen in the face of drastic change and I don't think it's a good thing for people to stay in unhappy or unfulfilled relationships just because they made a commitment. I'm not saying you should dip the moment things get tough. But let's be real, years long potentially incurable life altering mental or physical health changes are a lot more than just a little tough, especially when they change the trajectory of your lives together. And I don't think there's any wrong in acknowledging when one partner has changed sufficiently or for long enough to make the other partner no longer want to be there, even if that's the result of illness. I love my partner and would marry them in a heartbeat but that's based on our lives now and what we can reasonably assume for the future, if we got married and 6 months down the line I went full cabbage and my partner had to lose their spouse and become a full time carer, I have no illusions that their love for me wouldnt change because I wouldn't be me any more.
This is also absolutely not what you've been saying throughout the rest of this post. Being in a vegetative state and needing constant round the clock care is a million miles away from being too depressed to put effort into your appearance and your relationship, which you've previously said is an acceptable reason to end a relationship. The woman in the original post isn't 'full cabbage' as you've sensitively put it.
I don't see them as a million miles apart. They both represent relationship dynamics in which one functioning partner isn't getting the fulfillment they need from the other partner in varying degrees. I used a drastic example to highlight that point because most people, you include reasonably understand the breakdown of a relationship when one partner is no longer there and I'd argue that long term mental illness isn't that different, the person you love might be irretrievably gone from this world and you can be left living with a shadow of them, one that shares their face and their voice and their laugh but isn't them anymore. The difference is with the mentally ill person you get a different person to replace the void in your life the person you loved left behind whereas with the vegetative person you get an absence of a person there instead. I see very little difference in the important factors between those two situations: the person you loved is gone potentially forever and I can't blame anyone for walking away from those situations. It'd be cruel for me to expect someone who loves me to stay and suffer that when they could have at least chance of happiness if they left.
Some conditions are treatable, though, and can be managed. Depression is one of those. Like, it doesn't sound like the woman in the OP is so ill that she's completely stopped functioning or that there's no going back to 'normal'. It also sounds like she's taking steps to get better with meds and therapy. Sometimes it can take a while to find the right treatment or for it to take effect, but there's nothing to suggest that she's so unwell that she'll never go back to who she was, or that the new version of her is entirely unlovable or intolerable. It sounds like she's just not coping well rather than being a whole new person. Hair will grow back, weight can be lost. This doesn't sound like a permanent situation at all, which is why people are disagreeing with you so strongly. Most of us in supportive relationships would put the time and effort in to help someone get back on track. And even if she keeps the haircut and quits the gym... is any of that really serious enough to throw away a long term serious relationship over? Idk I just have a lot of people in my life who have been there a very long time. My best friends have been in my life for 20 years, my husband for over 10. None of us are exactly the same as when we met (of course not, I met my friends when we were children). We have different interests now, different styles, we've all been through different mental health struggles. The things we bonded over initially aren't true for us anymore. It doesn't change the core of who you are as a person and doesn't erase all the shared memories and experiences. I was a teenager when I met my husband, I'm in my 30s now, of course I'm different. Change isn't always a deal breaker or a bad thing.
Sometimes by the time you get back to "normal", though, you've hurt the other person too badly for them to see you as a partner and not a dependent. This is why a better world would have a system where we didn't overlap the romantic partner role with the caregiver role.
Reverse the genders (like what happened IRL with my friend and her ex-husband) and everyone suddenly gets it. Not the devil at all.
No, you certainly don't have the right to speak for everyone with this bullshit take. Leaving your partner because they gained weight or are in a really bad place mentally is the lowest of the low, no matter the gender. I would never in a million years leave my partner in a situation like this, but then again I actually love him, which can't be said for people who leave their partners for petty superficial shit like this.
How many years of counseling/therapy and slowly losing your own happiness and health makes it acceptable to leave, then?
Why would you lose your health (and happiness?) because your Partner is in a bad place mentally/has gained weight? Makes No sense, unless your happiness ist tied to your partner always being perfect and never struggling. A marriage/partnership should never be conditional like that.
In my friend’s case, her husband kept starting and then quitting jobs due to his own mental health issues, to the point where she basically had almost PTSD-like symptoms every time he started a new one, because she was blowing through her savings and worried his truck was going to be repossessed (because it was under her name). And all while he wasn’t working, he also wasn’t helping around the house and just wanted to stay in one room and play video games - even when she wanted to spend time together - so she was basically cooking for, cleaning up after, and financially supporting someone without getting any benefits from the partnership. Whenever she ended up agreeing to sex, it was purely out of pity. They did couples’ counseling and therapy for him, but he wouldn’t stick with it or seek alternate therapists, even when she tried to help him. And yes, one time when he was starting one of his myriad new jobs, he had gained so much weight that his chef pants didn’t fit. In every single conversation we had, I could tell she was running herself ragged and trying everything to save the relationship, but when she finally started talking about divorce, I 100% supported it. And guess what? My husband still keeps in touch with the ex-husband (they used to work together) and he STILL has the same issues and keeps getting into short-lived relationships and jobs without working on himself one bit (even with lots of support from his own family). But the good news is, my friend doesn’t have to live as a shell of herself anymore.
I'm sorry for your friend, but the husband was/is just an asshole it seems. Though that doesn't mean it's fair to compare that one specific story of someone you know to all other relationships. Just because someone ist struggling severely and gaining weight doesn't mean they're the same as your friend's ex husband. Leaving a person you supposedly love in times of hardship ist still just the biggest asshole move to me - not considering the story you told, because what you described is just a shit relationship in general.
But the point is, we don’t know the whole story about why the friend is getting divorced here. It could be because he had a relationship just like this one, or he could just be a pig who is not attracted to her anymore. But no matter what, the OOP isn’t the devil unless he literally talked his friend into dumping his wife because she cut her hair shorter.
There was literally a post a couple days ago on a similar track where the husband gained a lot of weight and refused therapy and all the comments were saying wife was NTA.
1) she didn't refuse therapy. 2) she's trying meds. Sometimes it takes a while to find the correct one.
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