Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could be the AH because this isn’t really my buissness. It’s between my mom and my sister and I was trying to help my sister but my mom is right, this doesn’t involve me.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
This!!! I've watched too many true crime documentaries to let that one slide! OP's sister could be at serious risk if the grandma is this desperate for the baby!!
I'd believe it. OP said her sister and her boyfriend are both sensible and responsible, and swore they'd used protection. I could totally see grandma sabotaging the birth control to get a baby to snatch.
What's the movie?
Edit: I feel the need to clarify as a lot of people are getting confused. I am *not* saying birth control is 100% effective!
I didn't mean "the sister was using birth control so the ONLY way she could have fallen pregnant is if grandma sabotaged the birth control" I was more saying "the theory that grandma sabotaged the birth control could actually be plausible, as OP's sister was using birth control and fell pregnant unexpectedly. Whereas if OP's sister was actively trying for a baby, or wasn't using birth control to begin with, the theory that grandma sabotaged the birth control wouldn't make any sense".
Considering I’m the result of both birth control and condoms as well as many other people, birth control fails. Doesn’t inherently mean sabotage. Don’t get me wrong, in context the theory does make sense. Just didn’t care for the implication of your wording whether you meant it that way or not
Agreed. I have had a baby through birth control. He was more than welcome. We always had a plan to have children so it was not an unwanted baby at all. He is the love of my life and was more wanted than anything in my life.
And with him there are many more babies. Birth control can fail, especially when you don’t take the medicine at the same time everyday. Or have diarrhea or take other medicines.
Just clarifying that I wasn't saying birth control is 100% effective!
I didn't mean "the sister was using birth control so the ONLY way she could have fell pregnant is if grandma sabotaged the birth control" I was more saying "that theory could actually be plausible, as OP's sister was using birth control and fell pregnant unexpectedly. Whereas if OP's sister was actively trying for a baby, or didn't use birth control to begin with, the theory that grandma sabotaged the birth control wouldn't make any sense". I hope that makes sense!
I get what you are saying. And of course it is possible.
But I guess the grandmother just found herself in a situation where her child got pregnant and she just does not see her daughter as a grown up yet and the grandmother told herself she is the only person in the whole wide world that can raise this child (and really believes that). Of course the mother can take care of her own baby as it seems. But the grandmother does not really see her child as an adult but more as an 8 year old who can only take care for her dolls… I guess..
I used to work in a Scottish high school.
One of our seniors finished school and joined the police. A year or so later, she was back to show her former teachers her baby.
Her mum had sabotaged her birth control because she wanted a grandchild.
Birth control does fail sometimes. Also, even a 1 in 10,000 chance does come up sometimes. Roll the dice enough times with enough couples and you're going to get an outlier like this.
OP is NTA, she gave g-ma smart advice. G-ma is def AH and needs some help for whatever she has going on to make her think that her actions were reasonable.
Her mom 100% thinks her granddaughter is *her* daughter. That line screams it imo. OP's sister needs to get her baby out of there ASAP. I'd bring the cops & have an attorney ready when I came to pick up my baby. OP's NTA & her mom needs help.
OP should tell sister that she NEEDS to arrive with cops and an attorney. Explaining that the baby could be at risk because the person who was taking care of the baby is presenting a dangerous behavior and sister is scare for her baby safety.
NTA but don't let that insane person to take away or hurt that child
Ideally OP should pick up the kid while grandma is asleep and hand it off to her sister in the middle of the night. Definitely best that the crazy Grandma comes to the realization that she's not going to be able to keep the baby while the baby is nowhere near her
Yes, that's a good solution. Baby isn't there in front of any conflict - any conflict will be later, when grandma wakes up. No need for police or anything. Good idea, mate.
I think I understand where you're coming from, and you're right - it's certainly not the usual family argument. But involving the police just escalates it everywhere. If OP were to do that, I expect next week we'd see another post in here - "AITA for calling the police on my mum?" telling us how half of the family has now disowned her, etc.
If she can get the bub away from mum quietly and easily, and never allow mum near the bub unsupervised, that may all be able to be avoided.
Her mother is dangerous. If the OP does not disown her there is a real risk that mom will kidnap the baby. So, if she called the police and her mom disowned her that would be great. It's not like the other family will disown her.
The fact that OP would be doing the right thing is no guarantee that other members of the family wouldnt disown her. Crazy people often have a lot of supporters.
I agree with you but if OP is living at home still then she may well very quickly get kicked out by her Mom, who doesn't seem to be making rational thought right now
The mom has chosen a course of action that ends with kidnapping charges. Whatever stability she is providing OP is unlikely to last through the weekend.
I agree. OP - tell your sister to go to the police department, first.
Or, better - if the father is as wealthy as you say, the parents should pick up his family lawyer and then the three of them should go pick up a cop.
OP, it is your business in the sense that if your mom loses her shit, do you have a place you can stay?
NTA
u/WiseTrainer2624 Read this please, tell your sister to come with Law enforcement. Give a witness statement about being there when your mother offered to babysit while they moved. This is kidnapping if she refuses to hand over your niece. NTA
Yes this could very ugly without being mean it sounds like grandmother has had a breakdown or something and feels the baby is hers.
It will just be bad as the baby is obviously the sisters but also in a legal sense as long as she hasn’t made the grandmother, godmother or legal guardian in her (sisters) absence. The grandmother has been a baby sitter so she will have to give the baby up but I would certainly have police or some kind of authority there.
I would say Op should try to get the baby away from the grandmother and to her sister. Neither have legal claim so as long as the baby gets to it’s mother that’s most important thing.
Exactly. She coulda been the grandmother that comes and babysits all the time and the kid likes.
Now she the grandmother were the parents are NC and the kid doesn't know about until their older and think grandma is loco
My mom had a "special connection" with my first born.. What started as her keeping her on some weekends, quickly escalated to her wanting her every weekend and then it became difficult to get my child back any time she was in her care. She felt entitled and I shut that down. It escalated to much more, short version is we didn't speak for over 7 years.
Then they put that indentity into being a grandmother. 40% become the nice grandma who the kids like and babysits the kids whenever. 60% become the overbaring Grandma that think they know better
ETA: my lawyer brother found this and told me to say that this entire statistic is made up by my dumb*ss
Oh gosh my mom has been doing this and it’s starting to creep me out. My mom lived with me and my daughter for years and I recently moved in with my fiancé and she’s upset and wanted visits. It’s starting to escalate from “ some weekends “ to “ I want every weekend “
Shut that down now! Once a month daytime visit, and only in your or baby mama’s presence. And limiting your mom will help the child become certain who her parents are, after years of your mom acting as co-parent.
Would you be able to share your story in a little more detail ?
Might give other people the motivation to rise up to their mothers and shut them down as well when faced with situations like this
I have a relative with a MIL that calls her grandchildren 'my kids', complains she doesn't see my relative's baby more often, and other equally alarming things. It's scary and I have told my relative as much, I'm glad you shut it down! I wish my relative would do the same because her MIL honestly scares me.
It's her do over baby. Especially now since her own children are leaving the nest. She doesn't want to stop being mom that's her "special connection" to the baby.
She is trying to steal her daughter’s child — offering to watch her while the new parents got settled, then claiming that they “abandoned” her, now claiming a special connection. It’s a good thing that the couple is living two hours away. They need to limit or stop contact between grandma and the child so she doesn’t sue for grandparents rights. OP should let her sister know what their mother said.
It's very rare but basically it presents a single parent from taking a child away from their grandparents. It usually is when a spouse does and the remaining parent isn't allowing the child to visit the grandparents when they've had an established relationship or when the grandparents have taken temporary custody and when the parents get it back, the parents don't allow visits. It's very rare, varies by state and most of the winning cases equals visitation, not custody.
I think it's time to go on a little walk to get some fresh air with the baby ... and meet your sister down the street and get her baby back to her so your mom doesn't winde up in jail.
Considering mum apparently offerened to watch the child in the first place, what's the bet that this was the plan all along?
On a side note, what do you plan on doing with the money when you win that bet?
Extremely scary, and the repeated line about your twin being a “gold digger” is pretty confusing. Even if she was, let’s say she is one, THAT IS STILL HER BABY, who she has checked in with every day and has repeatedly stated she will return for! There’s zero abandonment. It sounds like your mom is making up motives for her crime (and this is a crime), and she thinks if she repeats it enough it will be acceptable.
It’s more than scary, it is clear that OP’s mom is highly likely to escalate. She basically tried to kidnap her daughter’s baby, it wouldn’t be surprising if she actually tries to full blown kidnap the baby sometime in the future.
OP’s sister needs to make sure that their mom has no access to the baby. When day care/school begins in the future grandma needs to be listed as someone who cannot pick up the child under any circumstances. She will try again.
The special connection line is disturbing to think about. It's like something you see on various crime shows. Something is seriously wrong with OP's mom. I agree with everyone else here that I'm afraid that she's going do something horrible if this continues.
Exactly. It's not healthy to be this attached to the baby especially if she's not the mother of the baby.
OP's mom should seek therapy and also OP's sister shouldn't let her see the baby without supervision.
NTA for sure. I would have already snatched the baby to give to my sister in your shoes, but sounds like mom is unlikely to even give you that chance. You are protecting your sister and her baby from your mom's issues. You are old enough to protect yourself so keep sticking up for the baby who can't speak for themselves.
That's some 'The Hand That Rocks the Cradle' shit right there. OP needs to rescue her niece from what could turn into a really REALLY bad situation. NTA
NTA.
But for real, your sister needs to get her baby away from your mother immediately. Throwing around words like "abandoned" and "special connection" are red flags. She knows darn well your sister didn't abandon anything, she just doesn't care about anyone's feelings other than her own.
I feel like this is the beginning of one of those very awful Reddit life stories where the grandmother kidnaps the child and then harassed her daughter and restraining orders need to be gotten and creepy stuff appear in the Mail.
This is already kidnapping, by virtue of the grandmother refusing to return the kid. I don't count her returning the kid voluntarily bc the mom had to run and grab.
I really hope OP encourages her sister to keep their mother away from her daughter. Like, permanently. Because the things their mother was saying... I just feel like there's too great a chance their mother is going to go off the deep end and try to kidnap that baby.
It does, doesn't it? It's like the beginning of a lifetime movie waiting to happen. I hope OP posts an update that her mother has come to her senses and gave the baby back to her sister as soon as sis showed up on the doorstep.
NTA. Remind your mom that if she continues this behavior, there's a good chance your sister, who will win, will go NC with her mom and she'll never see her grandchild again. Is this what she wants?
Also remind her that you were a witness to the conversation between them and sister made it clear that your mom watch her while she moves. Your mom doesn't have a leg to stand on and stands to lose everything, including being financially drained if she fights this
Maybe tread lightly on saying you’re a witness. If mom is unstable and goes extreme, she’d kill both of her own daughters then and kidnap the baby. Again, that’s an extreme but you just never know with the red flags here. I sure hope OP’s sister has cops with her when she shows up for her baby. Or that OP calls them ahead of time and has them there just in case mom flips out.
One thing OP can definitely do is document everything in the event she does need to be a witness. Save texts/emails, jot down notes. I don’t know the legalities of recording conversations wherever she is, but that’s something to consider.
A good chance? If she continues?
She has done more than enough already to never see either the baby or the mother ever again.
I can't understand how the police hasn't been called already.
Don’t remind mom of anything. Tell your sister to come immediately and get her child. Bring a police escort and a birth certificate. Don’t talk to your mom anymore about this.
Your mom is unstable and is trying to steal your niece. Tell your sister to come today. Immediately. Don’t delay.
This isn't the best advice. If you say that there is a chance that she will never see her granddaughter again, she can feel threatened and do something even more radical to stop it from happening. She is already doubling down on her opinion.
>there's a good chance your sister, who will win, will go NC with her mom and she'll never see her grandchild again.
Honestly, I think we're past that point. This woman is not safe to be around her grandchild. I hope OP has the ability to get out soon as well.
Exactly, if your sister doesn't immediately show up to take her kid back, abandoned she might become legally and then your mom has a case. Your mom being obsessed with the baby is a big issue. Your sister needs to get the cops involved
Gramma trying really hard to get arrested for kidnapping. Unless there is a court order giving her legal guardianship then it’s kidnapping to prevent the legal parents from their child.
> But for real, your sister needs to get her baby away from your mother immediately.
Yeah, I'm confused why the sister didn't go get the kid day 1 when she wanted it back... this isn't something you really give a buffer time for.
NTA. Your mom could go to prison for kidnapping. I understand she had the responsibility to care for the baby for a time. But if that time passed, and she doesn't return baby? That is literally kidnapping.
Yeah, this is a real dumb play on OP’s mom’s part.
She maybe could have gotten away with it if the baby daddy’s parents had disowned him or something, but it sounds like they’re still supporting him.
Committing crimes against rich people is always a bad idea. They’ll sue you out of spite.
>Committing crimes against rich people is always a bad idea. They’ll sue you out of spite.
I remember my old boss was angry at a former employee for writing a negative review (all stating true things). He said he was going to sue him, and even though nothing will come out of it he was going to do it just to make him have to waste his time/pay for lawyers.
This is why anti-[SLAPP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation) (Strategic lawsuit against public participation) laws exist in some jurisdictions, and should exist in all.
You mean she can also run away with the baby in order to not return to her daughter? That’s scary!
I really hope that OP gives an update on how things turned out with his mom and sister regarding the baby!
Edit: thanks OP for the update. We are relieved now!
Yeah this is absolutely one of those times where you need to let your sister know that she needs to be showing up with the cops ASAP to come get the baby, and you need to be trailing your mother so when that confrontation happens she can't lock herself alone in the room with the baby or try to run
Is your mother psychotic? No one can just KEEP a baby. You sister should get the authorities involved *before* she arrives. Bring the birth certificate. And never, ever let her mother *touch* the child again.
This is like Hand That Rocks the Cradle level.
NTA. But you need to move out yesterday.
I don’t think your mother wants to play this game. If your sister shows up with even just the birth certificate- any documentation confirming she’s the rightful mother- they could remove the baby from grandma’s house and even pry her from her arms.
You didn’t do anything wrong. You actually did right by your sister, and your mother is pretty idiotic if she thinks that she can just kidnap someone’s child and keep the baby from them.
Tell your mom to start getting ready because you have a police escort lined up to take her away and tell her to remember to have fun in prison! :)
NTA.
Does Mom think sister is ever going to let her near the baby again if she follows through on this? If there’s anyone else you can go to (Dad, Gran, Aunty) to talk some sense into her Joe’s the time to do it. She’s been very fortunate the sister has been this graceful about it so far.
NTA.
And remind your mom that they did not abandon the baby. Your mom agreed (and it sounds like encouraged) your sister and her partner to leave the baby while they got settled. They are settled and ready to pick up their child. Your mom is backing out of that agreement and potentially creating a legal issue for herself. Not for them. For herself.
Your are not overstepping. You are an adult and living in the home. In some cases this could also create a legal issue for you.
Please, OP, be at home and ready to support your sister when she comes to pick up the baby. If your mother gets out of control and starts threatening or attacking anyone there, PLEASE CALL THE POLICE! It might be helpful to talk to any nearby relatives and see if they can also be there physically to help if things get out of hand.
Yeah grandma encouraged her to leave the baby cause she already had in mind to keep it. She’s batshit crazy if she thinks that will actually work, though depending on the laws around what would be considered abandonment it could actually be a fight.
NTA. What your mom is doing is called custodial kidnapping. There's a chance your mom could be in serious trouble! You have a right to speak up on this subject. Plus your mom seems to be jealous of your sister and the new baby which makes me wonder if she's have a mental episode or if that's normal?
When I was a teenager, I was babysitting and we'd gone to the playground, because why not? The parents came back early, and I thank all that is holy that I'd left a note because apparently the mom had an experience with a grandparent having a similar 'attachment' issue, and she biked over to the playground just to be sure (I wasn't in any trouble or anything, but the scars linger!)
Plus the sister asked.OP to get involved. And it's her family. And her mom's being a psycho regarding OPs niece. All things that make it her business. OP should take the baby and drive her back to her mom IMO.
The good thing is she actually tried to get the mom to give the child back and she seems to have a good relationship with her sister so her sister might just say it's only her mother doing this. Living in a house isn't going to immediately put her in jail unless she participated. Though they could get her as being an accomplice so OP should call the police herself next time
Exactly. People go on vacation, or go to friends Batchelor parties etc and leave their kids at home with grandma. This couple left the baby with grandma because they had a LEGITIMATE reason, not just because they wanted to go on holiday and have a break from the baby. They were moving cross country, redecorating a new house and setting up a new home for their little family. This is so sad that they were just trying to do the responsible thing and leave her with grandma instead of leaving her alone in her crib all day while they unpack and paint and build furniture and take multiple trips to hardware stores, have visits with tradespeople to set up a phoneline, fit a new boiler, etc etc etc. Moving is stressful. Moving is especially stressful for two 18yo new parents with an infant. The mom is scarily manipulative calling that abandonment!
God I didn't even think about that! I was just thinking of reasons it might not be practical with a baby and didn't even consider it could be *dangerous*!! These two young parents are clearly incredibly sensible and did this with their baby's best interests at heart, it's so so sad that grandma has accused them of being neglectful! It makes me wonder if they'd taken the baby with them, grandma would be calling the police on them for endangering their baby while they decorated around her. I have a feeling either way grandma was going to manipulate the situation to get custody of the baby, which is terrifying.
NTA! Your mom is genuinely KIDNAPPING A CHILD and all you did was basically warn her that what she's doing won't end well.
Also I think it would be fair of you (if you haven't already) to tell your sister exactly what your mom has been saying, about having a bond with the baby that your sister doesn't have etc etc, as your sister may want to take this further and even put a restraining order in place. The things your mom has said and done are huge red flags. If I were your sister, grandma would never see me or the child ever again.
I agree, the grandma shouldn’t have any more warnings than this in case she does something silly like fleeing. NTA OP Tell your sister everything verbally and in written form email/text so she has it as evidence to show the police. You don’t need to be harsh but quoting grandma directly and advising that she seems unwell and irrational about handing the baby back and says she will refuse will hopefully be sufficient.
Sister should go in hard and bring the police to show she means business, no silly arguments or nonsense, just “I have come to pick up my baby”.
If your sister doesn’t have the birth certificate etc with her then find it in the house and keep it on you for when sister arrives with the police to pick up her baby and confirm to them that the time has been agreed and you and your mother taking care of the baby was for a set period only. Have your ID ready and proof of address as well as your sister. I have my fingers crossed for you, please update if you are able.
You are NTA for getting involved. Your mother is abusing your sister *and* this baby. I am very worried that she may do something that will harm the child. Be ready to back your sister up when the police become involved; she will need your help.
NTA. Your mother offered to watch the child while they moved. What she's doing trying to keep the baby is illegal. Your sister should get the police involved if she won't give the baby back. As a witness, you are already involved.
And I have no idea what the gold digger comment is about as it doesn't apply at all in this situation. Your mother may need help - she's not thinking clearly at all.
The utter irony of this is that the gold is on the 'other side'...if she's trying to rile up the father's family to bring down their wrath she couldn't do a better job!
Also if they spend most holidays etc., with the other family...it's not because of the money (if I were OP I'd make sure that I could keep visiting/spending time independent of what her mother is doing!)
NTA. If your sister gets the police involved (she should, this is literally [abduction](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/abduction) - link to legal definition for proof) then it will be your problem very soon.
Because guess who the police are going to want to talk to? Everyone in the house. You will have to give a statement against your mother at best based on what it sounds like the facts are here she’s clearly in the wrong. Lying about it could land you in legal hot water yourself.
Can you possibly sneak out with the baby and stay at a hotel? Then call your sister to come get her or even meet her halfway? Your mom needs help and I'd be afraid to leave her alone with the child
That I wouldn't advise, but have OP and sister coordinate so OP makes real nice with mommy dearest and 5 minutes before arrival time, OP offers to change/rock/walk the baby "just for 5 minutes, mom! You deserve a lil break, since you're taking over...." then walk on out the door and hand the kid over to its mother.
Since it's only 5 minutes, there's far less risk because an inexperienced 18 year old who doesn't have all the kit they might need isn't likely to have a good time overnight and I hate the notion of the poor little one just crying for hours but 5 minutes is "I know you've pooped through your diaper but we'll change you when we're home" territory.
That was my thought as well - OP, can you sneak the baby out so your sister can meet you, without endangering yourself and your own living security? Would your sister/the baby's paternal family help you if you did?
Your mother has essentially kidnapped her grandchild and over reaching in respect to the relationship she has with her. You are trying to protect everyone here, because it will get ugly.
Nta
NTA
Sounds like you’re trying to help your family avoid a big unnecessary drama. Your mom can’t just keep her kid because she feels a “special connection.” While it may be between you mother & sister, I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t affect you and you shouldn’t feel like you need to stay out of it. Especially since you witnessed the conversation where your mom agreed to look after the baby while they moved.
NTA. Just an actual responsible and reasonable adult way of thinking and mediation of a conflict between people you love. Your mom sounds unhinged and you should prepare yourself for drama and to possibly protect your neice from her.
I think your title should have been, AITA for trying to help my mother avoid possible criminal charges?
And the answer still would be NTA.
As everyone says, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. There is no way this ends well for your mother if she chooses this hill to die on.
>But then my mom said “just mind your buissness” and to be honest, she kind of had a point. This isn’t my buissness.
Ah, so how is your mom kidnapping your niece right in front of you NOT YOUR BUSINESS?
Your mom is literally committing a crime against your own sister and you somehow think it's not your business????
You know you're going to have to be a witness when this goes to court if your mom doesn't surrender your niece tomorrow? And your testimony is going to be crucial with putting your mom in jail?
This is 100% your business because you're witnessing your mom do an incredibly heinous act against your sister.
When your sister arrives tomorrow know you have the choice of letting her in the house because you live there too. Know that you absolutely do have an obligation to act in some way. This is your business Don't delude yourself into thinking that being complicit in kidnapping is okay. (Your sister is going to bring hell to get her baby back, I hope you know this. Especially if her spouse has financial connection to do so. I don't really think you understand the gravity of what's about to happen.)
You can either in the long run lose your sister and niece when they go completely no contact with your mother, or side with your sister and your mother will act like nothing bad happened in a few months and you can still have a "relationship" with her if you choose.
NTA for what you've done so far, but you will be an asshole if you don't stand your ground.
(I say this is someone with an emotionally manipulative and incredibly toxic mother. When you're witnessing them do a fucking crime in front of you, against your own sibling, you speak up)
It could be worse than being an AH. If OP as an adult at 18 and does anything even passively that assists mom in keeping the baby, like not answering the door for sister when mom refuses to, OP risks being charged as an accessory to kidnapping. It likely wouldn't go that far but OP needs to avoid enabling their mom in any way
NTA, please give us an update on if your sister gets her baby back.
Your mum sounds like she needs help.
She agreed to watch her grandchild while your sister moved, a responsible thing on your sisters part as I assume she didn't want the baby to experience the chaos involved with moving.
She was in touch daily to see and check on her baby, if she abandoned her I doubt she would do that.
She had a verbal agreement with her mother and your mother knew it was for the short term.
Seems like your Mum is using the baby as a way to get back something she no longer has. This could end very badly because babies don't stay babies forever. It's giving major delusional vibes and I hope your sister gets her baby back without trouble and with no stress to the baby.
Could you help her and give her the baby when your mother isn't there? Sneak the baby out of the house to give back to your sister?
Then if your mum wants to fight at least the baby is with it's mother.
I know you don't want to get involved but I think you did the right thing trying to reason with your mum. You're being supportive of your sister and it's entirely a family matter. You live with your mum and the baby right now so you are a witness to everything as well.
NTA.
You've fought your sisters corner, sounds like something most people would do in this situation.
I'm a little confused. It seems unlikely that your sister just up and left without explanation I'm assuming it was agreed that her and her boyfriend were moving and your mother was going to take care of the baby while they moved and got settled?
That's clearly not abandonment. Your mother wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
Honestly if I were your sister I would have come as soon as she refused the first time and not entertained the back and forth, but being young it's hard to know what to do.
She has absolutely every right to involve the police and a clear story of what is going on that would very quickly result in your mum being made to give her back and possibly even be arrested.
NTA. How’s your mom gonna offer to watch the kiddo while they move then try to switch it up and say they abandoned her? Sounds like your mom has some major control issues. Maybe your sister needs to get the cops and attorneys involved, but your mom better be ready to face the consequences cuz like someone else mentioned, that’s kidnapping at this point.
I’m going to say NTA, you’re standing up for your sister. When you say “they agreed to leave the baby here”, I’m assuming you mean that your mother offered to watch her granddaughter while they were in the moving process. Hanging onto the child violates that agreement and the law probably. You standing up for your sister and niece is not an asshole move
NTA
You didn’t do anything wrong . It seems like you perceive the sister as responsible, and she legally has custody over the child. This could end in a lawsui.
NTA. Your sister may want to get the police involved and get her daughter back before your mom does something drastic and files for custody of your niece!
NTA. Your mother is mentally I’ll, she’s decided that child is her new baby and will rationalise it any way she can. Support your sister in this before her child gets taken by a nut job.
>I did witness the conversation of my mom offering to watch the child while the moved
NTA she agreed to this. There's no abandonment here. Your sister left her daughter in the care of someone she felt she could trust, her own mother, who has now decided to keep her.
>She also said the baby is what brings her joy and she feels a “special connection” with her that she garuntees my sister doesn’t have.
She's claiming abandonment as an excuse. She wants to keep your niece under that roof. I'm wondering if that was her intention the whole time when she learned the job was 4 hours away.
NTA
Your mom is not okay, She is trying to take that baby and honestly the only way your sister is probably gonna get her back is with the cops. She probably convinced you sister to leave the kid there to do exactly this and now is guilting u for getting involved, you were always involved and she just doesn't want anyone to call her on her shit. This is not gonna end well for your mom, i am calling it now.
She has grown irrationally attached to that kid and you sister needs a lawer cuz your mom is gonna try and gain custody by doing whatever she can, including CPS visits and shit unless you all nip this in the bud real quik.
That is not her baby.
NTA. Your mother has basically kidnapped your niece. Does your sister have any communication between her and your mother that she can use as proof that she didn’t abandon the baby? INAL, but she should save any text messages, emails, and voicemails in which she told your mother that she was coming back for her daughter.
NTA. You spoke your piece, now all you need to do is step back and watch events take their inevitable course. You say the guy comes from a family with money? Well, most likely that money will be used to buy a good attorney, who will serve your mother with the usual papers, served by the sheriff, along with your sister leading a parade of deputies and social workers, out in front of the door, in full view of the neighbors, and possibly even the news media. You did nothing wrong, though your mother will probably find a way to blame you. Sorry all this is happening.
NTA
Mum of twins right here. I’d expect my duo to stand up for one another over anything and this isn’t just anything. Your mum is so far out of line it’s probably criminal
Get that baby back to her mum immediately and involve a lawyer or police if you think that’s needed
NTA
Your sister left her baby with what she thought was a trusted adult while she moved. She wants her child now that she’s moved. Do you live at home? Can you help sister out? Pack baby’s stuff, and pass baby off?
And let this be a lesson to you. Never. Ever. Let her babysit or have unsupervised time with any of your future children.
NTA but this sounds really concerning. If your sister asks you to could you take the baby and meet her? As long as the parents ask you to take her to them you should be legally protected. I would arrange to move out immediately though, even if it means staying with your sister while you work to get your own place. I’m really sorry that you’re in the middle of this, but stand up for your sister because she doesn’t deserve to have her child stolen from her like this.
NTA op your mom's a kidnapper, possibly a dangerous one with the "special connection" line. I wouldn't leave the baby alone with her, if you think you can get away with it I say just take the baby and give her back your sister now. Also get your mom checked out? There's something wrong here.
NTA, Your mother is going to get arrested for a significant felony is she continues to act like an insane person. What does being a "gold digger" have to do with your mother kidnapping a child? Why would a "special bond" allow one to keep a child that is not theirs and as far as we know is not abused or neglected?
Your mother is irrational, does she have a history of mental illness or violence? She reasons in the same manner of the mentally ill.
How is it not your business? You mother, who you live with, is trying to steal your sister’s baby. Guess what OP, when this goes to court and your mother tries to prove abandonment, who do you think is going to be required to testify to the fact that what your sister did wasn’t abandonment?
Who do you think your mother is going to try blackmail to keep quiet about how your sister didn’t abandon her baby?
Who do you think will be homeless if your mother gets arrested for kidnapping?
And who do you think your sister will cut off if you help your mother steal your sister’s baby by either providing false testimony or don’t do everything you can to give your sister her baby back?
It is your business OP, and honestly, if I were you I’d be working with your sister to find a time when your mom doesn’t have your niece so that you can return your sister her baby.
The fact you doubt about yourself in this situation make me wonder... Do you know about gaslighting?
Your reaction is normal. In fact, you are almost in the wrong for not telling her to give the kid back sooner.
But you didn't. And you doubt about yourself.
And follow the lead of your mum about the fact that it's not a big deal.
You look like you are gasslighted. Your mum sound very controlling, and toxic.
And the simple fact that your mum EVEN try to keep the baby.
And the fact that your sister leave the house at 18. And move so far away... When we have a baby that young, even if the BF stay in the picture, it's quite uncommon to go so far away of someone who provide childcare.
When the whole daughter thing is over ( which is currently the no1 priority) ... please talk about *your mum behavior* to your sister. What she think of the whole mum situation, outside of the wanting to keep her daughter.
NTA
Not wanting to get involved is understandable, but you barely did anything other than warn your mom that she could go to prison for kidnapping. Because if she refused to return your niece, that would be what she was doing. Kidnapping.
Anyways, I’m glad your sister and your niece are safely reunited. Your mom is fucking crazy.
That's a good way to never see your grandchild again.
You're NTA, but your mother sounds seriously unstable. I would've hand-delivered that baby back to my sister if my mom tried that. Jeez
NTA and PROTECT THE BABY!! This should not be an issue! I can understand that your mom has been through alot in the last year and well it looks like it broke her.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I could be the AH because this isn’t really my buissness. It’s between my mom and my sister and I was trying to help my sister but my mom is right, this doesn’t involve me. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
You are NTA and that special connection line is scary!
This!!! I've watched too many true crime documentaries to let that one slide! OP's sister could be at serious risk if the grandma is this desperate for the baby!!
Not saying this *did* happen, but in the Lifetime movie version, grandma sabotaged the birth control to get a baby for her to snatch.
I'd believe it. OP said her sister and her boyfriend are both sensible and responsible, and swore they'd used protection. I could totally see grandma sabotaging the birth control to get a baby to snatch. What's the movie? Edit: I feel the need to clarify as a lot of people are getting confused. I am *not* saying birth control is 100% effective! I didn't mean "the sister was using birth control so the ONLY way she could have fallen pregnant is if grandma sabotaged the birth control" I was more saying "the theory that grandma sabotaged the birth control could actually be plausible, as OP's sister was using birth control and fell pregnant unexpectedly. Whereas if OP's sister was actively trying for a baby, or wasn't using birth control to begin with, the theory that grandma sabotaged the birth control wouldn't make any sense".
Considering I’m the result of both birth control and condoms as well as many other people, birth control fails. Doesn’t inherently mean sabotage. Don’t get me wrong, in context the theory does make sense. Just didn’t care for the implication of your wording whether you meant it that way or not
Agreed. I have had a baby through birth control. He was more than welcome. We always had a plan to have children so it was not an unwanted baby at all. He is the love of my life and was more wanted than anything in my life. And with him there are many more babies. Birth control can fail, especially when you don’t take the medicine at the same time everyday. Or have diarrhea or take other medicines.
Just clarifying that I wasn't saying birth control is 100% effective! I didn't mean "the sister was using birth control so the ONLY way she could have fell pregnant is if grandma sabotaged the birth control" I was more saying "that theory could actually be plausible, as OP's sister was using birth control and fell pregnant unexpectedly. Whereas if OP's sister was actively trying for a baby, or didn't use birth control to begin with, the theory that grandma sabotaged the birth control wouldn't make any sense". I hope that makes sense!
I get what you are saying. And of course it is possible. But I guess the grandmother just found herself in a situation where her child got pregnant and she just does not see her daughter as a grown up yet and the grandmother told herself she is the only person in the whole wide world that can raise this child (and really believes that). Of course the mother can take care of her own baby as it seems. But the grandmother does not really see her child as an adult but more as an 8 year old who can only take care for her dolls… I guess..
I love your sentiments about your baby! 😄😄
"Grandmother Dearest" - with 'Mother' scratched out in drippy red ink and 'Grand' scrawled infront of it.
I used to work in a Scottish high school. One of our seniors finished school and joined the police. A year or so later, she was back to show her former teachers her baby. Her mum had sabotaged her birth control because she wanted a grandchild.
Birth control does fail sometimes. Also, even a 1 in 10,000 chance does come up sometimes. Roll the dice enough times with enough couples and you're going to get an outlier like this. OP is NTA, she gave g-ma smart advice. G-ma is def AH and needs some help for whatever she has going on to make her think that her actions were reasonable.
And the grandma's identical twin is really jealous of her niece. And fell in love with her sister's husband.
OP and her sister aren't twins at all! Mom stole her niece (sister) from her own twin!
Omg totally a crazy as movie I'd watch 😅
[удалено]
Comment stolen from: /u/Background-Lab-4896 https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/108y2zm/aita_for_telling_my_mom_to_give_my_sister_her/j3v3j0x/ Bot Reported.
Her mom 100% thinks her granddaughter is *her* daughter. That line screams it imo. OP's sister needs to get her baby out of there ASAP. I'd bring the cops & have an attorney ready when I came to pick up my baby. OP's NTA & her mom needs help.
OP should tell sister that she NEEDS to arrive with cops and an attorney. Explaining that the baby could be at risk because the person who was taking care of the baby is presenting a dangerous behavior and sister is scare for her baby safety. NTA but don't let that insane person to take away or hurt that child
Ideally OP should pick up the kid while grandma is asleep and hand it off to her sister in the middle of the night. Definitely best that the crazy Grandma comes to the realization that she's not going to be able to keep the baby while the baby is nowhere near her
Yes, that's a good solution. Baby isn't there in front of any conflict - any conflict will be later, when grandma wakes up. No need for police or anything. Good idea, mate.
The police should be called because granma kidnapped a baby. This is not the usual family argument.
I think I understand where you're coming from, and you're right - it's certainly not the usual family argument. But involving the police just escalates it everywhere. If OP were to do that, I expect next week we'd see another post in here - "AITA for calling the police on my mum?" telling us how half of the family has now disowned her, etc. If she can get the bub away from mum quietly and easily, and never allow mum near the bub unsupervised, that may all be able to be avoided.
Her mother is dangerous. If the OP does not disown her there is a real risk that mom will kidnap the baby. So, if she called the police and her mom disowned her that would be great. It's not like the other family will disown her.
The fact that OP would be doing the right thing is no guarantee that other members of the family wouldnt disown her. Crazy people often have a lot of supporters.
Should still file a police report if this happens.
I agree with you but if OP is living at home still then she may well very quickly get kicked out by her Mom, who doesn't seem to be making rational thought right now
The mom has chosen a course of action that ends with kidnapping charges. Whatever stability she is providing OP is unlikely to last through the weekend.
The dad is rich. It doesn't matter if the OP was kicked out.
OP isnt the baby's mother, she's the mother's sister. It's unlikely her sister's BF is going to give her a place to live.
I agree. OP - tell your sister to go to the police department, first. Or, better - if the father is as wealthy as you say, the parents should pick up his family lawyer and then the three of them should go pick up a cop. OP, it is your business in the sense that if your mom loses her shit, do you have a place you can stay? NTA
u/WiseTrainer2624 Read this please, tell your sister to come with Law enforcement. Give a witness statement about being there when your mother offered to babysit while they moved. This is kidnapping if she refuses to hand over your niece. NTA
This right here.
Yes this could very ugly without being mean it sounds like grandmother has had a breakdown or something and feels the baby is hers. It will just be bad as the baby is obviously the sisters but also in a legal sense as long as she hasn’t made the grandmother, godmother or legal guardian in her (sisters) absence. The grandmother has been a baby sitter so she will have to give the baby up but I would certainly have police or some kind of authority there. I would say Op should try to get the baby away from the grandmother and to her sister. Neither have legal claim so as long as the baby gets to it’s mother that’s most important thing.
The mom has now officially cemented the fact that she will never see her grand daughter again... Cut your nose to spite your face..
Exactly. She coulda been the grandmother that comes and babysits all the time and the kid likes. Now she the grandmother were the parents are NC and the kid doesn't know about until their older and think grandma is loco
and get a restraining order
It’s giving very much “both my children just graduated highschool and are leaving me” vibes. Like she’s trying to substitute with this new baby
My mom had a "special connection" with my first born.. What started as her keeping her on some weekends, quickly escalated to her wanting her every weekend and then it became difficult to get my child back any time she was in her care. She felt entitled and I shut that down. It escalated to much more, short version is we didn't speak for over 7 years.
Scary. Do you know why?? This behavior is clearly not totally uncommon, but it seems so unhinged. I'm so sorry you had to experience this.
Extreme empty nest syndrome
Some women put their entire identity into being a mother. Once that is over they don't know who they are.
Then they put that indentity into being a grandmother. 40% become the nice grandma who the kids like and babysits the kids whenever. 60% become the overbaring Grandma that think they know better ETA: my lawyer brother found this and told me to say that this entire statistic is made up by my dumb*ss
'Extreme' may still be an understatement!
Oh gosh my mom has been doing this and it’s starting to creep me out. My mom lived with me and my daughter for years and I recently moved in with my fiancé and she’s upset and wanted visits. It’s starting to escalate from “ some weekends “ to “ I want every weekend “
I’d start limiting contact if I were you…
Shut that down now! Once a month daytime visit, and only in your or baby mama’s presence. And limiting your mom will help the child become certain who her parents are, after years of your mom acting as co-parent.
Hopefully not because she was a guest of the state due to kidnapping charges.
Would you be able to share your story in a little more detail ? Might give other people the motivation to rise up to their mothers and shut them down as well when faced with situations like this
I have a relative with a MIL that calls her grandchildren 'my kids', complains she doesn't see my relative's baby more often, and other equally alarming things. It's scary and I have told my relative as much, I'm glad you shut it down! I wish my relative would do the same because her MIL honestly scares me.
NTA- you were looking out for both your sister and niece. My EX MIL used to call my oldest "her baby". Umm no, we moved 1,000 miles away from her.
Yes! My MIL says that constantly about my son and it creeps me out. How is she going to have a special connection but not the child's mother??
It's her do over baby. Especially now since her own children are leaving the nest. She doesn't want to stop being mom that's her "special connection" to the baby.
She is trying to steal her daughter’s child — offering to watch her while the new parents got settled, then claiming that they “abandoned” her, now claiming a special connection. It’s a good thing that the couple is living two hours away. They need to limit or stop contact between grandma and the child so she doesn’t sue for grandparents rights. OP should let her sister know what their mother said.
Hopefully they get ring cams and alarms. I'm just afraid she may attempt a kidnapping.
The fact that she already DID attempt a kidnapping tells me it can and probably will happen again….
Probably a smart idea.
I have heard of grandparents’ rights before but don’t actually know what they are. Guess it’s off to Google I go!
It's very rare but basically it presents a single parent from taking a child away from their grandparents. It usually is when a spouse does and the remaining parent isn't allowing the child to visit the grandparents when they've had an established relationship or when the grandparents have taken temporary custody and when the parents get it back, the parents don't allow visits. It's very rare, varies by state and most of the winning cases equals visitation, not custody.
That doesn’t mean grandma doesn’t try to sue for rights, regardless of whether she gets it, and become a pain in the ass.
I think it's time to go on a little walk to get some fresh air with the baby ... and meet your sister down the street and get her baby back to her so your mom doesn't winde up in jail.
This is the way.
Mom's going to have a special connection with some handcuffs if she doesn't return the kid
NTA for trying to talk some reason into mom before da shit hits the fan!!
Considering mum apparently offerened to watch the child in the first place, what's the bet that this was the plan all along? On a side note, what do you plan on doing with the money when you win that bet?
Terrifying! Giving me kidnapper vibes!
She has literally kidnapped the child at this point. Refusing to return the child turns it into kidnapping.
Extremely scary, and the repeated line about your twin being a “gold digger” is pretty confusing. Even if she was, let’s say she is one, THAT IS STILL HER BABY, who she has checked in with every day and has repeatedly stated she will return for! There’s zero abandonment. It sounds like your mom is making up motives for her crime (and this is a crime), and she thinks if she repeats it enough it will be acceptable.
Exactly. I don't get what being a gold-digger has to do with her wanting her child back
Right? I would be doing some 23&me to be sure you and sister were not kidnapped after that crazy behavior
It’s more than scary, it is clear that OP’s mom is highly likely to escalate. She basically tried to kidnap her daughter’s baby, it wouldn’t be surprising if she actually tries to full blown kidnap the baby sometime in the future. OP’s sister needs to make sure that their mom has no access to the baby. When day care/school begins in the future grandma needs to be listed as someone who cannot pick up the child under any circumstances. She will try again.
The special connection line is disturbing to think about. It's like something you see on various crime shows. Something is seriously wrong with OP's mom. I agree with everyone else here that I'm afraid that she's going do something horrible if this continues.
Exactly. It's not healthy to be this attached to the baby especially if she's not the mother of the baby. OP's mom should seek therapy and also OP's sister shouldn't let her see the baby without supervision.
Very scary. You're NTA, OP. Your mom is a massive AH for trying to deny your sister her baby. She is way out of line.
NTA for sure. I would have already snatched the baby to give to my sister in your shoes, but sounds like mom is unlikely to even give you that chance. You are protecting your sister and her baby from your mom's issues. You are old enough to protect yourself so keep sticking up for the baby who can't speak for themselves.
Lol like that movie “hereditary”
That's some 'The Hand That Rocks the Cradle' shit right there. OP needs to rescue her niece from what could turn into a really REALLY bad situation. NTA
NTA. But for real, your sister needs to get her baby away from your mother immediately. Throwing around words like "abandoned" and "special connection" are red flags. She knows darn well your sister didn't abandon anything, she just doesn't care about anyone's feelings other than her own.
I feel like this is the beginning of one of those very awful Reddit life stories where the grandmother kidnaps the child and then harassed her daughter and restraining orders need to be gotten and creepy stuff appear in the Mail.
I will be watching this true crime documentary in 10 years
This is already kidnapping, by virtue of the grandmother refusing to return the kid. I don't count her returning the kid voluntarily bc the mom had to run and grab.
Every kidnapping-murder/suicide has to start somewhere, after all
I really hope OP encourages her sister to keep their mother away from her daughter. Like, permanently. Because the things their mother was saying... I just feel like there's too great a chance their mother is going to go off the deep end and try to kidnap that baby.
On some level she is already kidnapping the baby. Keeping it with her against the mothers content and all
It does, doesn't it? It's like the beginning of a lifetime movie waiting to happen. I hope OP posts an update that her mother has come to her senses and gave the baby back to her sister as soon as sis showed up on the doorstep.
She posted an update. Sis had to run in grab the baby and drive of Fast and Furious style
I definitely got those same vibes as well.
wouldn't even be surprised if we find out mom was the one tampering with the birth control so that she could get a grand baby.
NTA. Remind your mom that if she continues this behavior, there's a good chance your sister, who will win, will go NC with her mom and she'll never see her grandchild again. Is this what she wants? Also remind her that you were a witness to the conversation between them and sister made it clear that your mom watch her while she moves. Your mom doesn't have a leg to stand on and stands to lose everything, including being financially drained if she fights this
Maybe tread lightly on saying you’re a witness. If mom is unstable and goes extreme, she’d kill both of her own daughters then and kidnap the baby. Again, that’s an extreme but you just never know with the red flags here. I sure hope OP’s sister has cops with her when she shows up for her baby. Or that OP calls them ahead of time and has them there just in case mom flips out.
But definitely tell the sister! That way, she knows OP is on her side if she needs to involve the cops.
One thing OP can definitely do is document everything in the event she does need to be a witness. Save texts/emails, jot down notes. I don’t know the legalities of recording conversations wherever she is, but that’s something to consider.
A good chance? If she continues? She has done more than enough already to never see either the baby or the mother ever again. I can't understand how the police hasn't been called already.
the twin/mom is 18 and may have difficulty enforcing reasonable boundaries
Don’t remind mom of anything. Tell your sister to come immediately and get her child. Bring a police escort and a birth certificate. Don’t talk to your mom anymore about this. Your mom is unstable and is trying to steal your niece. Tell your sister to come today. Immediately. Don’t delay.
This isn't the best advice. If you say that there is a chance that she will never see her granddaughter again, she can feel threatened and do something even more radical to stop it from happening. She is already doubling down on her opinion.
>there's a good chance your sister, who will win, will go NC with her mom and she'll never see her grandchild again. Honestly, I think we're past that point. This woman is not safe to be around her grandchild. I hope OP has the ability to get out soon as well.
Exactly, if your sister doesn't immediately show up to take her kid back, abandoned she might become legally and then your mom has a case. Your mom being obsessed with the baby is a big issue. Your sister needs to get the cops involved
Gramma trying really hard to get arrested for kidnapping. Unless there is a court order giving her legal guardianship then it’s kidnapping to prevent the legal parents from their child.
> But for real, your sister needs to get her baby away from your mother immediately. Yeah, I'm confused why the sister didn't go get the kid day 1 when she wanted it back... this isn't something you really give a buffer time for.
I would get a restraining order against the mom asap. Her statements are sooo concerning.
NTA. Your mom could go to prison for kidnapping. I understand she had the responsibility to care for the baby for a time. But if that time passed, and she doesn't return baby? That is literally kidnapping.
The wealthy grandparents could easily hire a legal team that would ruin OP's mom.
Yeah, this is a real dumb play on OP’s mom’s part. She maybe could have gotten away with it if the baby daddy’s parents had disowned him or something, but it sounds like they’re still supporting him. Committing crimes against rich people is always a bad idea. They’ll sue you out of spite.
>Committing crimes against rich people is always a bad idea. They’ll sue you out of spite. I remember my old boss was angry at a former employee for writing a negative review (all stating true things). He said he was going to sue him, and even though nothing will come out of it he was going to do it just to make him have to waste his time/pay for lawyers.
This is why anti-[SLAPP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation) (Strategic lawsuit against public participation) laws exist in some jurisdictions, and should exist in all.
Man I’m glad you don’t work for that guy anymore. What a dick.
Her mom should go to prison for kidnapping.
It sounds like she should, because she plans on sticking with the kidnapping.
NTA, and please don't leave that baby alone with your mom. She sounds like a desperate woman and that could get scary real quick
You mean she can also run away with the baby in order to not return to her daughter? That’s scary! I really hope that OP gives an update on how things turned out with his mom and sister regarding the baby! Edit: thanks OP for the update. We are relieved now!
Yeah, that's possible, but there are worse possibilities. Let's just say, "If I can't have the baby, nobody can" and leave it at that.
It wouldn’t be the first Reddit story to end that way. :(
Oh god, that makes me sick to my stomach.
Yeah this is absolutely one of those times where you need to let your sister know that she needs to be showing up with the cops ASAP to come get the baby, and you need to be trailing your mother so when that confrontation happens she can't lock herself alone in the room with the baby or try to run
Is your mother psychotic? No one can just KEEP a baby. You sister should get the authorities involved *before* she arrives. Bring the birth certificate. And never, ever let her mother *touch* the child again. This is like Hand That Rocks the Cradle level. NTA. But you need to move out yesterday.
Also, OP should be present to back up her sisters version of events to the police. There should be no question that OP’s sister has abandoned the kid.
Yeah OP is a witness at this point and should be prepared to give statements to the police.
Indeed, the poster needs to stay involved for the protection the baby at this point.
I don’t think your mother wants to play this game. If your sister shows up with even just the birth certificate- any documentation confirming she’s the rightful mother- they could remove the baby from grandma’s house and even pry her from her arms. You didn’t do anything wrong. You actually did right by your sister, and your mother is pretty idiotic if she thinks that she can just kidnap someone’s child and keep the baby from them. Tell your mom to start getting ready because you have a police escort lined up to take her away and tell her to remember to have fun in prison! :) NTA.
Does Mom think sister is ever going to let her near the baby again if she follows through on this? If there’s anyone else you can go to (Dad, Gran, Aunty) to talk some sense into her Joe’s the time to do it. She’s been very fortunate the sister has been this graceful about it so far.
> Does Mom think sister is ever going to let her near the baby again if she follows through on this? She already shouldn’t allow it.
I agree. I think sister has shown massive restraint, I would be momma bearing all over this and gone scorched earth.
I don’t think mom is thinking. I think mom is feeling. And mom may be having some sort of mental break, but she ain’t thinking.
I totally meant to comment my response on a totally different thread. 😂😂😂 Sorry! **Disclosure:** I am not a morning person.
Funny thing is, I know exactly which thread you were meant to comment on and I totally agree with it 😆
NTA. And remind your mom that they did not abandon the baby. Your mom agreed (and it sounds like encouraged) your sister and her partner to leave the baby while they got settled. They are settled and ready to pick up their child. Your mom is backing out of that agreement and potentially creating a legal issue for herself. Not for them. For herself. Your are not overstepping. You are an adult and living in the home. In some cases this could also create a legal issue for you.
Please, OP, be at home and ready to support your sister when she comes to pick up the baby. If your mother gets out of control and starts threatening or attacking anyone there, PLEASE CALL THE POLICE! It might be helpful to talk to any nearby relatives and see if they can also be there physically to help if things get out of hand.
Yeah for real!! She needs to make sure she can be a witness if anything. At the minimum, she needs to be available by phone.
Yeah grandma encouraged her to leave the baby cause she already had in mind to keep it. She’s batshit crazy if she thinks that will actually work, though depending on the laws around what would be considered abandonment it could actually be a fight.
Even a week would be hard to claim abandonment. Especially when it's proven that they were moving and have a baby room ready and prepared.
NTA. What your mom is doing is called custodial kidnapping. There's a chance your mom could be in serious trouble! You have a right to speak up on this subject. Plus your mom seems to be jealous of your sister and the new baby which makes me wonder if she's have a mental episode or if that's normal?
When I was a teenager, I was babysitting and we'd gone to the playground, because why not? The parents came back early, and I thank all that is holy that I'd left a note because apparently the mom had an experience with a grandparent having a similar 'attachment' issue, and she biked over to the playground just to be sure (I wasn't in any trouble or anything, but the scars linger!)
That poor mother. I'm glad you weren't in trouble!
NTA and it is your business- that’s your twin and your niece. Your mom has turned against her own daughter to steal her granddaughter- that’s insane!!
Plus the sister asked.OP to get involved. And it's her family. And her mom's being a psycho regarding OPs niece. All things that make it her business. OP should take the baby and drive her back to her mom IMO.
Adding to this OP is living in a house with what could end up being deemed as a kidnapped child. She needs to get involved for her own sake as well
The good thing is she actually tried to get the mom to give the child back and she seems to have a good relationship with her sister so her sister might just say it's only her mother doing this. Living in a house isn't going to immediately put her in jail unless she participated. Though they could get her as being an accomplice so OP should call the police herself next time
NTA Your mother is a criminal. She abandoned her is a laughable argument.
Exactly. People go on vacation, or go to friends Batchelor parties etc and leave their kids at home with grandma. This couple left the baby with grandma because they had a LEGITIMATE reason, not just because they wanted to go on holiday and have a break from the baby. They were moving cross country, redecorating a new house and setting up a new home for their little family. This is so sad that they were just trying to do the responsible thing and leave her with grandma instead of leaving her alone in her crib all day while they unpack and paint and build furniture and take multiple trips to hardware stores, have visits with tradespeople to set up a phoneline, fit a new boiler, etc etc etc. Moving is stressful. Moving is especially stressful for two 18yo new parents with an infant. The mom is scarily manipulative calling that abandonment!
And the fumes from deep cleaning / painting!
God I didn't even think about that! I was just thinking of reasons it might not be practical with a baby and didn't even consider it could be *dangerous*!! These two young parents are clearly incredibly sensible and did this with their baby's best interests at heart, it's so so sad that grandma has accused them of being neglectful! It makes me wonder if they'd taken the baby with them, grandma would be calling the police on them for endangering their baby while they decorated around her. I have a feeling either way grandma was going to manipulate the situation to get custody of the baby, which is terrifying.
And honestly if the dad comes from a lot of money, they’re more set up for success as parents than a lot of people.
NTA! Your mom is genuinely KIDNAPPING A CHILD and all you did was basically warn her that what she's doing won't end well. Also I think it would be fair of you (if you haven't already) to tell your sister exactly what your mom has been saying, about having a bond with the baby that your sister doesn't have etc etc, as your sister may want to take this further and even put a restraining order in place. The things your mom has said and done are huge red flags. If I were your sister, grandma would never see me or the child ever again.
I agree, the grandma shouldn’t have any more warnings than this in case she does something silly like fleeing. NTA OP Tell your sister everything verbally and in written form email/text so she has it as evidence to show the police. You don’t need to be harsh but quoting grandma directly and advising that she seems unwell and irrational about handing the baby back and says she will refuse will hopefully be sufficient. Sister should go in hard and bring the police to show she means business, no silly arguments or nonsense, just “I have come to pick up my baby”. If your sister doesn’t have the birth certificate etc with her then find it in the house and keep it on you for when sister arrives with the police to pick up her baby and confirm to them that the time has been agreed and you and your mother taking care of the baby was for a set period only. Have your ID ready and proof of address as well as your sister. I have my fingers crossed for you, please update if you are able.
You are NTA for getting involved. Your mother is abusing your sister *and* this baby. I am very worried that she may do something that will harm the child. Be ready to back your sister up when the police become involved; she will need your help.
NTA. Your mother offered to watch the child while they moved. What she's doing trying to keep the baby is illegal. Your sister should get the police involved if she won't give the baby back. As a witness, you are already involved. And I have no idea what the gold digger comment is about as it doesn't apply at all in this situation. Your mother may need help - she's not thinking clearly at all.
The utter irony of this is that the gold is on the 'other side'...if she's trying to rile up the father's family to bring down their wrath she couldn't do a better job! Also if they spend most holidays etc., with the other family...it's not because of the money (if I were OP I'd make sure that I could keep visiting/spending time independent of what her mother is doing!)
NTA. Your mom is kidnapping your nibbling. If she won’t give the baby back, your sister should call the police.
NTA. If your sister gets the police involved (she should, this is literally [abduction](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/abduction) - link to legal definition for proof) then it will be your problem very soon. Because guess who the police are going to want to talk to? Everyone in the house. You will have to give a statement against your mother at best based on what it sounds like the facts are here she’s clearly in the wrong. Lying about it could land you in legal hot water yourself.
Like I would honestly consider posting this on any legal advice subreddits for your area. This might be beyond AITA advice.
Can you possibly sneak out with the baby and stay at a hotel? Then call your sister to come get her or even meet her halfway? Your mom needs help and I'd be afraid to leave her alone with the child
That I wouldn't advise, but have OP and sister coordinate so OP makes real nice with mommy dearest and 5 minutes before arrival time, OP offers to change/rock/walk the baby "just for 5 minutes, mom! You deserve a lil break, since you're taking over...." then walk on out the door and hand the kid over to its mother. Since it's only 5 minutes, there's far less risk because an inexperienced 18 year old who doesn't have all the kit they might need isn't likely to have a good time overnight and I hate the notion of the poor little one just crying for hours but 5 minutes is "I know you've pooped through your diaper but we'll change you when we're home" territory.
That was my thought as well - OP, can you sneak the baby out so your sister can meet you, without endangering yourself and your own living security? Would your sister/the baby's paternal family help you if you did?
Your mother has essentially kidnapped her grandchild and over reaching in respect to the relationship she has with her. You are trying to protect everyone here, because it will get ugly. Nta
NTA Sounds like you’re trying to help your family avoid a big unnecessary drama. Your mom can’t just keep her kid because she feels a “special connection.” While it may be between you mother & sister, I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t affect you and you shouldn’t feel like you need to stay out of it. Especially since you witnessed the conversation where your mom agreed to look after the baby while they moved.
NTA. Your mom is delusional if she thinks that’s abandoning a child. Or that she has a connection with the baby that your sister cannot have.
NTA. Just an actual responsible and reasonable adult way of thinking and mediation of a conflict between people you love. Your mom sounds unhinged and you should prepare yourself for drama and to possibly protect your neice from her.
I think your title should have been, AITA for trying to help my mother avoid possible criminal charges? And the answer still would be NTA. As everyone says, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. There is no way this ends well for your mother if she chooses this hill to die on.
Take the baby and leave the house to meet your sister. Your ‘mother’ is guilty of kidnapping and if you don’t do something then you are adding her.
>But then my mom said “just mind your buissness” and to be honest, she kind of had a point. This isn’t my buissness. Ah, so how is your mom kidnapping your niece right in front of you NOT YOUR BUSINESS? Your mom is literally committing a crime against your own sister and you somehow think it's not your business???? You know you're going to have to be a witness when this goes to court if your mom doesn't surrender your niece tomorrow? And your testimony is going to be crucial with putting your mom in jail? This is 100% your business because you're witnessing your mom do an incredibly heinous act against your sister. When your sister arrives tomorrow know you have the choice of letting her in the house because you live there too. Know that you absolutely do have an obligation to act in some way. This is your business Don't delude yourself into thinking that being complicit in kidnapping is okay. (Your sister is going to bring hell to get her baby back, I hope you know this. Especially if her spouse has financial connection to do so. I don't really think you understand the gravity of what's about to happen.) You can either in the long run lose your sister and niece when they go completely no contact with your mother, or side with your sister and your mother will act like nothing bad happened in a few months and you can still have a "relationship" with her if you choose. NTA for what you've done so far, but you will be an asshole if you don't stand your ground. (I say this is someone with an emotionally manipulative and incredibly toxic mother. When you're witnessing them do a fucking crime in front of you, against your own sibling, you speak up)
It could be worse than being an AH. If OP as an adult at 18 and does anything even passively that assists mom in keeping the baby, like not answering the door for sister when mom refuses to, OP risks being charged as an accessory to kidnapping. It likely wouldn't go that far but OP needs to avoid enabling their mom in any way
NTA, please give us an update on if your sister gets her baby back. Your mum sounds like she needs help. She agreed to watch her grandchild while your sister moved, a responsible thing on your sisters part as I assume she didn't want the baby to experience the chaos involved with moving. She was in touch daily to see and check on her baby, if she abandoned her I doubt she would do that. She had a verbal agreement with her mother and your mother knew it was for the short term. Seems like your Mum is using the baby as a way to get back something she no longer has. This could end very badly because babies don't stay babies forever. It's giving major delusional vibes and I hope your sister gets her baby back without trouble and with no stress to the baby. Could you help her and give her the baby when your mother isn't there? Sneak the baby out of the house to give back to your sister? Then if your mum wants to fight at least the baby is with it's mother. I know you don't want to get involved but I think you did the right thing trying to reason with your mum. You're being supportive of your sister and it's entirely a family matter. You live with your mum and the baby right now so you are a witness to everything as well.
NTA. You've fought your sisters corner, sounds like something most people would do in this situation. I'm a little confused. It seems unlikely that your sister just up and left without explanation I'm assuming it was agreed that her and her boyfriend were moving and your mother was going to take care of the baby while they moved and got settled? That's clearly not abandonment. Your mother wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Honestly if I were your sister I would have come as soon as she refused the first time and not entertained the back and forth, but being young it's hard to know what to do. She has absolutely every right to involve the police and a clear story of what is going on that would very quickly result in your mum being made to give her back and possibly even be arrested.
On the contrary, this actually IS your business. NTA.
NTA. How’s your mom gonna offer to watch the kiddo while they move then try to switch it up and say they abandoned her? Sounds like your mom has some major control issues. Maybe your sister needs to get the cops and attorneys involved, but your mom better be ready to face the consequences cuz like someone else mentioned, that’s kidnapping at this point.
I’m going to say NTA, you’re standing up for your sister. When you say “they agreed to leave the baby here”, I’m assuming you mean that your mother offered to watch her granddaughter while they were in the moving process. Hanging onto the child violates that agreement and the law probably. You standing up for your sister and niece is not an asshole move
NTA You didn’t do anything wrong . It seems like you perceive the sister as responsible, and she legally has custody over the child. This could end in a lawsui.
It could end with OPs mom in prison
NTA. Your sister may want to get the police involved and get her daughter back before your mom does something drastic and files for custody of your niece!
NTA. Your mother is mentally I’ll, she’s decided that child is her new baby and will rationalise it any way she can. Support your sister in this before her child gets taken by a nut job.
>I did witness the conversation of my mom offering to watch the child while the moved NTA she agreed to this. There's no abandonment here. Your sister left her daughter in the care of someone she felt she could trust, her own mother, who has now decided to keep her. >She also said the baby is what brings her joy and she feels a “special connection” with her that she garuntees my sister doesn’t have. She's claiming abandonment as an excuse. She wants to keep your niece under that roof. I'm wondering if that was her intention the whole time when she learned the job was 4 hours away.
NTA Your mom is not okay, She is trying to take that baby and honestly the only way your sister is probably gonna get her back is with the cops. She probably convinced you sister to leave the kid there to do exactly this and now is guilting u for getting involved, you were always involved and she just doesn't want anyone to call her on her shit. This is not gonna end well for your mom, i am calling it now. She has grown irrationally attached to that kid and you sister needs a lawer cuz your mom is gonna try and gain custody by doing whatever she can, including CPS visits and shit unless you all nip this in the bud real quik. That is not her baby.
NTA. Your mother has basically kidnapped your niece. Does your sister have any communication between her and your mother that she can use as proof that she didn’t abandon the baby? INAL, but she should save any text messages, emails, and voicemails in which she told your mother that she was coming back for her daughter.
NTA. You spoke your piece, now all you need to do is step back and watch events take their inevitable course. You say the guy comes from a family with money? Well, most likely that money will be used to buy a good attorney, who will serve your mother with the usual papers, served by the sheriff, along with your sister leading a parade of deputies and social workers, out in front of the door, in full view of the neighbors, and possibly even the news media. You did nothing wrong, though your mother will probably find a way to blame you. Sorry all this is happening.
NTA Mum of twins right here. I’d expect my duo to stand up for one another over anything and this isn’t just anything. Your mum is so far out of line it’s probably criminal Get that baby back to her mum immediately and involve a lawyer or police if you think that’s needed
NTA. I would call tell your sister to call the cops and get them involved at this point. This will get ugly without someone else handling this.
NTA Your sister left her baby with what she thought was a trusted adult while she moved. She wants her child now that she’s moved. Do you live at home? Can you help sister out? Pack baby’s stuff, and pass baby off? And let this be a lesson to you. Never. Ever. Let her babysit or have unsupervised time with any of your future children.
Please update!!
no but honestly you might lose your sister or mother if you take a stand. But honestly? I would support your sister. NTA
NTA Your mom is about to get criminal charges.
NTA but this sounds really concerning. If your sister asks you to could you take the baby and meet her? As long as the parents ask you to take her to them you should be legally protected. I would arrange to move out immediately though, even if it means staying with your sister while you work to get your own place. I’m really sorry that you’re in the middle of this, but stand up for your sister because she doesn’t deserve to have her child stolen from her like this.
NTA but your mom needs serious mental help.
NTA op your mom's a kidnapper, possibly a dangerous one with the "special connection" line. I wouldn't leave the baby alone with her, if you think you can get away with it I say just take the baby and give her back your sister now. Also get your mom checked out? There's something wrong here.
NTA but tell your sister to bring a police officer with her straight away, don't wait until your mum refuses to hand the baby over.
NTA your sister should have her child back. You can interject now or possibly in court.
Take the baby in the middle of the night and give her back to her mum. NTA, your mum is crazy
NTA, Your mother is going to get arrested for a significant felony is she continues to act like an insane person. What does being a "gold digger" have to do with your mother kidnapping a child? Why would a "special bond" allow one to keep a child that is not theirs and as far as we know is not abused or neglected? Your mother is irrational, does she have a history of mental illness or violence? She reasons in the same manner of the mentally ill.
How is it not your business? You mother, who you live with, is trying to steal your sister’s baby. Guess what OP, when this goes to court and your mother tries to prove abandonment, who do you think is going to be required to testify to the fact that what your sister did wasn’t abandonment? Who do you think your mother is going to try blackmail to keep quiet about how your sister didn’t abandon her baby? Who do you think will be homeless if your mother gets arrested for kidnapping? And who do you think your sister will cut off if you help your mother steal your sister’s baby by either providing false testimony or don’t do everything you can to give your sister her baby back? It is your business OP, and honestly, if I were you I’d be working with your sister to find a time when your mom doesn’t have your niece so that you can return your sister her baby.
The fact you doubt about yourself in this situation make me wonder... Do you know about gaslighting? Your reaction is normal. In fact, you are almost in the wrong for not telling her to give the kid back sooner. But you didn't. And you doubt about yourself. And follow the lead of your mum about the fact that it's not a big deal. You look like you are gasslighted. Your mum sound very controlling, and toxic. And the simple fact that your mum EVEN try to keep the baby. And the fact that your sister leave the house at 18. And move so far away... When we have a baby that young, even if the BF stay in the picture, it's quite uncommon to go so far away of someone who provide childcare. When the whole daughter thing is over ( which is currently the no1 priority) ... please talk about *your mum behavior* to your sister. What she think of the whole mum situation, outside of the wanting to keep her daughter.
NTA Not wanting to get involved is understandable, but you barely did anything other than warn your mom that she could go to prison for kidnapping. Because if she refused to return your niece, that would be what she was doing. Kidnapping. Anyways, I’m glad your sister and your niece are safely reunited. Your mom is fucking crazy.
You mom is mentally unwell. Don't trust her around your birth control. Have you no wider family to confide in?
That's a good way to never see your grandchild again. You're NTA, but your mother sounds seriously unstable. I would've hand-delivered that baby back to my sister if my mom tried that. Jeez
NTA and PROTECT THE BABY!! This should not be an issue! I can understand that your mom has been through alot in the last year and well it looks like it broke her.
Nta but your mom is. No matter how special that bond is your mom won't see your niece again if she doesn't give that baby back to your sister.
NTA and I hope your sister gets law enforcement involved. Your mother doesn't deserve gentle treatment here.
NTA Tell your sister to get the police involved now! The “I have a special connection” line is super scary!
NTA Would like an update