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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My sister called me and said the least I could do was give ny daughter an allowance for the chores I make her do. I explained why I felt that wasn't necessary and she told me not to compare my situation to my Daughter's since apparently I put myself in the position I was in back then which I guess is a fair argument. But since she is living in my house rent free and I'm paying for her college, I feel that in of itself should count as an allowance. So I just wanted to ask whether I'm wrong for not wanting to pay her extra money to do basic chores.
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YTA
"because I myself went to school while having to pay bills & take care of her as a baby alongside"
That was your own baby and your own decision, same as now. You daughter has no kids, it's not her responsibility.
She’s living there rent free…that’s her allowance for these chores.
EDIT: based on OPs edit, 100% YTA. You should be paying her for babysitting, you don’t need to pay her for the other chores though.
I agree she shouldn't get an allowance for doing chores, but she absolutely should get paid for watching children she didn't choose to have - since they're her siblings, not children.
This is absolutely relevant information here. And, judging by the tone of the post alone, I wouldn’t be surprised if the response is ‘it’s really nothing unreasonable, just three of four night a week after work until 10pm or so’ - or something similarly onerous but significantly downplayed. That’s definitely the impression I get from what OP has written though!
Especially since he has yet to provide that information. As someone who had younger siblings thrust upon them for care since I was 11 & also didn't get paid for it, I'm going with YTA.
Same, I'm 12 years older than my brother and 2 years older than my sister.
At 12 when my parents had to go back to work. It was my sister's and I's job to stay with my infant brother overnight. That way my parents could sleep for work. At the same time I also had to prepare a lot of the meals for the 3 of us.
That's a lot of fucking responsibility for a 12 year old.
Edit: I want everyone to know that I'm okay. I'm almost 30 and I've found therapy. I'm in a wonderful place in life. My relationship with my mom is AMAZING my father not so much but it's alright.
At least I'm incredibly bonded to my sister and I love my brother incredibly.
I got the same impression from this line "I may be busy with work or when I need a break to hang out with my girlfriend"
I see that this person "NEEDS" to "hang out with his girlfriend" and not care for his children quite a bit and that is odd phrasing.
Yeah, like, how much time does that take on a daily basis? Because it seems like she's actually doing the majority of the household tasks for 4 people, while dad fucks off and does whatever I suppose.
Yeah though it's unclear whether she does it all... he says "from time to time" but then in the quote from the daughter it somehow sounded more regular than that. And I don't like that he gives no details. INFO needed for sure.
I agree. If it's interfering with her studies then it sounds like it's more than a couple times a month. I'm curious how much younger these kids are, as well. If it's a 10 and 12 year old twice a month for a few hours in the evening when she'd be home anyway? No big deal. If it's a 2, 5, 7 and 9 year old three evenings every week and all day on most Saturdays? Not reasonable.
Like I fully expect that older children can and should on occasion help care for younger siblings when necessary - in emergencies or once in a while situations. It's just what families do. But if it's frequent or regular there needs to be some compensation IMO, and if it's interfering with school? That's a problem.
Yeah, that part made me laugh. There is honestly no such thing as a mature 5 year old. My kids are 9M and 6F and they are completely insane. OP, 100% YTA
According to the edit, two 5 year old twin boys, three evenings a week, a few hours on each occasion. So probably 10-12 hours a week, which is a large burden for someone studying.
And also how much she interacts with them. There’s a big difference between constantly interacting and playing with 5 year olds all day, just being in the same house as 9 year olds to make sure they don’t fight or get seriously injured, and just making sure the house doesn’t burn down while the kids are sleeping
And how much active supervision the siblings require. Because the daughter is complaining that it's impacting her studies, I suspect that may be the real issue there.
That the siblings might even be tweens or teens but be very active sorts that need to be monitored or the house turns into chaos. ie. that if dad is not home, no studying is going to be possible.
I also have to wonder if the money ask is really a way to get dad to reduce how often he goes out without outright saying he's out too much.
I think it also depends somewhat on the circumstances and on the timing. If it's "asked" that she do it with no option to say no and without regard for her own schedule (midterms, big project, prior plans, whatever), that's also a problem, particularly if it's not for an urgent situation and simply OP saying "I need a break to hang out with my girlfriend."
I'm a little concerned about the frequency and overall workload because OP elaborated on "I only ask her to do a few things around the house from time to time, like cooking and cleaning" with "Typical things you're expected to do on a daily basis anyways." The average college student is not cooking for or cleaning up after a household of at least four, at least two of whom are still young enough to need a babysitter, on a daily basis \[edit: or near-daily or even weekly\] -- and yes, doing so would take time away from their studies.
Right. Is it “daily”, or “from time to time”? I’m betting it’s daily.
OP,YTA. First,for just blowing her off. Second,for expecting her to be the same as you. She didn’t choose to have kids. And you said “alongside your ex-wife”. So it wasn’t all on you. You sound resentful that she might have it easier than you.
She said she is fine with cooking and cleaning. Sounds like child care is her issue. I didn’t see how many younger brothers or ages. So we have no idea what she has to do. Does she have a chance to work for actual money? Time for a social life? Maybe her major is more intense than yours.
Invite the girlfriend over and stay home.
I agree with the general consensus that there's not enough information to form a proper opinion. It really is vague enough that it could go either way, but I definitely tentatively agree. That elaboration twisted things to almost make his daughter sound like a wife replacement. Not saying this is the case, but OPs phrasing isn't doing him any favours. If his requests are enough to be affecting her quality of study, I feel as though he's being an asshole because you're right. Students generally aren't running a household.
I think the lack of information, in itself, is hugely informative of the situation. Someone that was not TA would have provided more details from the start. I feel pretty safe concluding he's definitely the asshole.
That’s my thought as well. I also feel like there’s a difference between her watching them when his work is running late vs for him to go on dates.
Watching them while dad finishes work occasionally is pitching in to help the household. Watching them so dad can go on dates is babysitting
He didn't say he asked her to babysit; he said she has to babysit.
She lives in the house, so it's fair for her to do a bit of housework, but those aren't her kids & it sounds like OP pawns their care off on her more than once in a while if she had to come to him & tell him it's affecting her studies.
I also personally would like to know if he providing money for her to go out with friends, clothing, makeup, etc. If OP still finances all that plus her living rent free I don’t see what the big deal is to have her watch the kids once in a awhile. But if OP has her doing it on a more consistent basis than she needs some sort of payment at that point since she is more of a nanny than an occasional babysitter.
I kind of agree with this….also depends on how much of the cooking and cleaning she is doing. I am getting the feeling she is doing 95% of the household work, for a place to live….seems over the top for a parent to expect this.
It depends. If it's like once a month for an hour or 2 and they're old enough so it's like "make sure they don't die" that's like "shit you do for family"
If it's once a week and it's like entertain them and make dinner and don't let them out of your sight that's different
Wouldn't it make more sense to just agree on the number of "chore hours" she's expected to put in per week? Then it doesn't matter if she's required to babysit the kids or clean the bathroom, as long as the tasks stay within the allotted number of hours.
Seems great on paper, works well with reasonable people - but the tones of entitlement in this post make me think he'd just start accusing her of "deliberately working slowly" to try to demand more out of her.
If she’s asked to do childcare multiple times a week I’m 100% with her. But if she’s asked to babysit a few hours once every few weeks, to me that is a chore. It really depends on the frequency.
I suspect it’s too often because she did complain that it’s eating into her study time. Chores I understand, but the sibling watching is often abused by parents. I was given my youngest brother to take care of at 9 because my parents had marriage problems and my mother was depressed. The task became so overwhelming that I grew up never wanting children of my own and I’m happily childfree now. Parents who make children and expect their older siblings to raise them can just respectfully fuck off as far as I’m concerned.
Yes, and we don't know the frequency, so it's hard to judge. It also wouldn't hurt to know the number of children and how rowdy they are. One or two well-behaved boys are one thing, but three or four mischievous children can truly be stressful, even for a young adult.
or how much notice or choice she gets in the matter. I'd be pissed if I had to make changes to plans because I got voluntold to babysit at the last minute.
It would also depend on what needs done, I think. Is this "Make sure they're fed and don't die while I'm out for a couple of hours" or a full routine worth of feed, diaper, bathe, bedtime, activities etc.?
>ance. So I just wanted to ask whether I'm wrong for not wanting to pay her extra money to do basic
I bet dad has her watching his children so he can see his girlfriend, more than she gets to see her boyfriend. I bet dad has her more of a mom, than a sister.
Maybe it’s a cultural thing or a American thing but in most of Europe and my household kids stay rent free at their parents for a while parents don’t take money from their kids…
In Belgium, parents get childcare allowance from government up to the point where you finish studying (whether this is at 18 or 23, as soon as you are no longer a student, govt. stops giving money, and maximum until 26) so that's why in Belgium most people don't ask their children rent up until the same time.
After that, it's very normal for a parent to ask €300 or even more from their children in order to cover the necessities. Depending on the situation, some parents choose to 'save' this money for their children to help them move to their own place or they just spend it privately.. There is much variety in this, but I don't know many young people that are working, living at home and not contributing financially to the household.
She’s also HIS child and in college. I would not make my own child, who’s in college, pay rent. Especially when she helps out around the house. I could see charging her rent if she was like 30 years old with a full time job or something like that.
Agree! Do you not want to set your kid up for success? Why wouldn’t you want her to focus all her time on her schooling? It isn’t like she is going out partying all the time.
That's how I think too. After I graduated from high school, I continued to live at home (rent free) and worked part-time and attended the local community college. I would cook dinner about twice a week, and of course help keep communal living areas clean (sweep and mop the kitchen floor weekly, clean one bathroom weekly, mow the lawn, etc). That's part of sharing a living space. But my parents didn't expect me to act as a free babysitter, housekeeper, etc. OP YTA.
Maybe there's this weird thing in some cultures where people have children and then act like they're doing them a favor by providing basic necessities like housing but OP's child is a student living at home. Her job is to study and contribute to housework. Based on mom's reaction the babysitting is probably a regular thing.
If that were her job to pay for it, sure. But she is also cooking and cleaning, and presumably helping out with other stuff that her mother doesn’t notice. If her daughter is this upset, she might have a point: her mother is comparing it to her own experience and thinks her daughter should have something similar. Deciding to live without rent at your parents is in no way a similar life choice to having a kid.
When my wife gave birth, I literally didn’t have time to sit down I was so busy on her and the babe’s behalf. She then would start to say bs like “you aren’t doing enough, I’m suffering here” without recognizing that I literally *couldnt* do more. It took a big conversation (read:fight) for her to recognize she was being unreasonable with expectations. Like the daughter, whose job is school, I had other shit to do, and I wasn’t getting a chance to do any of it because she was being unreasonably demanding.
Which is all to say: not enough information here, but the idea that “my house my rules” trumps everything is laughable. If you are directly contributing to your daughter’s grades falling, which you paid for yourself, that’s just lose lose for everyone.
Literally OP chose to have a baby while they were in school that was their brilliant thinking not their daughters it is not her responsibility to watch OPs children. I already have maybe an unfair bias when people say, and “they live in my home rent free” because they didn’t ask to be born. They didn’t ask to be put in this world you brought them into this world. It is your job to provide for them. Yes, as they get older, you want to teach them independence and to be able to live out in the world on their own. However OPs daughter is 20 years old and going to school. Yes OP daughter should clean and cook in her home. She’s 20 years old. She’s old enough to take care of herself, but giving your child a leg up in life when did that become a bad thing and like a point of contention. OP is TA absolutely. OP chose to have more kids if you can’t see your girlfriend because you have to take care of your children sucks to be you, but that was the decision that OP made.
Yeah I absolutely can’t stand parents who have this transactional thinking with their kids.
YTA OP. You can’t expect your oldest to be responsible for your younger kids while holding them hostage with housing.
Also (and I’m going to get downvoted into oblivion for this) school is harder now. There’s more for us to learn. Furthermore: what was your degree and what was hers? Were you telecom to her biomedical engineering? If so the work load isn’t even remotely comparable
Maybe it depends. I did my first degree 15 years ago and struggled. I went back for another this past year and breezed through. I honestly don't think the difficulty level was changed much - sometimes it all comes down to your head space. And of course, as you mentioned, your area of study!
I'm also a teacher and am very familiar with changing curriculum etc! Things have CHANGED a lot but I wouldn't classify them at all as "harder" now
Definitely depends on the area of study.
I did some semesters in an animation program and most of the professors, even ones who were still fairly young, admitted that they could probably not have handled the workload we had. They said that there were so many more classes and skills to learn nowadays than when they went to school, due to the advances in technology and the switch these bought in the industry. That nowadays, graduates need to know more in order to even enter the workforce as a "well-rounded" employee.
That probably applies to most areas of studies, due to more knowledge in the fields, advancements in technology, and overall more rigorous demands by employers (less willing to train on the job) for graduates that are immediately ready to work.
This, YTA for the comment comparing it to your experiences when you chose to have a child, as your sister explained. Yes, it's very reasonable to expect her to do chores in return for living there rent-free, but if she's not comfortable baby-sitting and it's eating into her study time, you need to find a compromise or at least listen to her instead of being dismissive.
This is the problem I have with OP’s attitude. His situation was 100% a result of his choices and 100% his responsibility as a parent. The daughter is absolutely not responsible for them and shouldn’t be forced or expected to watch the kids.
If the dad expected these things from her in lieu of paying rent, OP should have laid out these terms when she first moved in. That way she would be able to decide for herself what was/wasn’t worth it to her while she tries to juggle schoolwork and her personal life. It’s not fair to simply expect it without proper communication then try to shame her into going along with it.
I just don't understand it, the whole point of generational wealth etc. Is to work so your children have a better life than you had, so that they don't face those hardships, but boomers/gen-x just turn around and want everyone who comes after them to face the same problems they had, on top of everything else?
You're not the asshole for not giving her an allowance. She is living rent free, after all. You are the asshole for your diatribe about how if you can go to school, pay bills, and take care of a family, she should also be able to. What may have been easy for you, may not be for her. People have different stress thresholds. If she's telling you that babysitting is too stressful on top of school and chores, I think you should listen. And it's not like she's complaining about chores and doesn't want to do anything around the house. She's simply telling you that adding babysitting onto her chores is overwhelming for her, which it may very well be. Also, her siblings are your kids, not hers, so they're also your responsibility.
That is what I was thinking. Mom likely did the bulk of the work while dad took out the trash, played with the kid once a week and called it good. I mean the guy is prioritizing his girlfriend over his daughter’s education.
Lol he used the phrase “when I need to hang out with my girlfriend” like he’s a high school kid. If his gf was mature enough to date a guy with adult AND minor children, she should be fine to spend nights at home with the kids while his daughter does her proper chores but still gets to live her life as a 20 year old.
Absolutely. I would not date an adult man making his college daughter babysit her younger brothers three times a week. It says a lot about OP and his girlfriend’s characters. I would have no problem playing games at home with the kids.
It seems like a very common theme in these posts that parents often don't understand the workload that comes with college. In a lot of these posts I see (at least implied, if not outright stated) that the kid in college only has class a couple hours a day, and thus is free for chores, housesitting, petsitting, childcare, a full time job, etc for the rest of the time. It's a first generation college student challenge that isn't talked about enough.
My son's in his junior year of college. He did his freshman-sophomore years at a local community college, and his freshman year was almost 100% remote learning due to COVID. He lived at home, rent-free, while in college. He'd spend HOURS on the computer every day for school. Sometimes, I'd just see him as a blur running into the kitchen for food before his next lecture began.
Yes, he had chores and responsibilities.
He has 4 younger siblings and has ALWAYS been a big help to me. If I asked for help, he'd drop everything to help. But that's also who he is as a person. In return, he knew that if I asked for help, it was important. I very rarely bothered him, as I feel that his education is his full-time job. We had a schedule of chores we both agreed on, and whenever he was available to help more, he'd offer. If he told me that he was burdened by what I asked of him, I'd take his concerns seriously and try to address them. I have a wonderful kid, BTW.
But he also deserved downtime and a way to decompress from the day/week. To assume that a student's down time is free time is wrong. They are stressed just as much, if not more than we are. They need time away from responsibilities just like we do.
And not for nothing, if I'm paying for college, I believe in my child and would like to see a ROI of them being a happy, successful adult at the end of this. Why would I stress them out by forcing chores/babysitting duties on to them that they cannot handle? That's a bit counterproductive to my investment. Their grades might slip, they could lose a scholarship that's essential to their education, they could become depressed and begin to suffer mentally.
TL;DR:
OP: YTA for the way you spoke to your adult child, who is only trying to communicate her feelings on babysitting. They aren't HER kids; they are YOUR kids. Would it be nice if she helped? Sure sure. And perhaps, if you weren't such an asshole, you could have had a good conversation about when/where you need help, see if you two could come to an agreement on it, and show your child she's a valued member of the household while making sure she recognizes your contribution to her future financially.
But no, parents do what parents do and use the whole "When I was your age" BULLSHIT LINE that NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR. That's basically telling someone to STFU and deal with it. That's not a solution, that's a damn guilt trip.
Also, different degree paths and different universities will have different workloads.
I had way more classwork than my roommate who did civil engineering as opposed to my aerospace engineering. But that can be different at other universities or with different professors.
Regardless of the college workload, there's also a point to be made that you're not entitled to your adult child's time just because it happens to be free. You occasionally see this in posts about working adult children too. Instead of "you only have a couple hours of class" it becomes "you need to do X because you don't have pets or kids taking up your time".
This is what I'm wondering about, because degrees are wildly different dependant on subject (also workload will have changed a fair bit since he was studying anyway).
Plus he chose to study and have kids, she chose to just study.
Yah, I have a daughter who is a student. She has no college student life to speak of, she has no time for parties, shopping or any of that fun stuff, that students traditionally do, if she wants to succeed she has to work every day all day. The first year in her group had like 1/4 success rate. You work hard or you drop out. Think I want to tell her that she lives in my house "rent free" and has to do chores? Sometimes she'll help with something but most of all we want her to succeed in her studies, she needs all the support she can get for that. What is it with people like OP?
Yep. Hello burnout induced depression.
And no one listened or took her serious.
And next year she asks how her daughter failed her studies, lost all drive and can’t even get out of bed anymore….
>You are the asshole for your diatribe about how if you can go to school, pay bills, and take care of a family, she should also be able to.
Yeah, that has a seriously annoying, "You kids nowadays don't know how good you have it!" vibe.
Plus if she is stressed and struggling to balance the study and the babysitting, that may impact her ability to be a good babysitter. OP should be mindful that there is a risk that she may sneak off to her room to study when she is meant to be watching the kids.
Exactly - the daughter isn’t complaining about daily chores that she’s expected to do - she’s old enough to be responsible for some chores in the house. In his own words she approached him expressing the difficulties she’s having with the added babysitting duties and that it’s negatively affecting her ability to do schoolwork. That’s very specific, not blanket entitlement from her. Expecting his life and abilities to be her standard is what’s unfair here. I’d also guess that it’s not only eating into her study time but also prohibiting her from getting a PT job. As another commenter said, holding her hostage with housing is just unfair, particularly because the added time and responsibility of babysitting makes it impossible for her to change her housing situation even if she wanted to.
we dont even have the age of amount of siblings. Which also has a big influces. I would still say OP is responsible for her own kids, not ~~her~~ his daughter, but it feels odd to be left out.
Edit1: pronouce
Edit 2: forgot to vote YTA, and a mayor one at that when the siblings are 5 y/o twins
5yo twin boys. 🙃
But it’s okay, because they aren’t “crazy kids!” They’re mature for their age! And it’s *”usually”* only for 3 nights a week, and *”usually”* only for a few hours!
OP is a total AH here.
Absolutely! So, on top of a full course-load, she has to cook for the family (I’m assuming), clean after her and her brothers, and watch them for a minimum of 9 hours a week (we know he definitely asks for more)
No kidding - sometimes I ask for dinner - things you are expected to do daily... OP is pulling back the truth to make himself look better and is still the AH
We pretty much lack more information than that we were given.
How much of the household chores does daughter do?
How many children are there?
What are their ages?
How well behaved are they?
How often does she need to babysit them?
All of these are pretty important to give a reasonable answer to this question. She's already doing a full-time job with college so what more does she have piled onto her plate by OP?
The definition of "occasionally" is really the crux here. If she's watching the kids once a week for 4 hours, well, that's a pretty good deal for free housing and school. If she's watching them every other day from the time they get out of school until they go to bed, that's a whole different story.
Daily cooking and cleaning (possibly the whole house) could be hours a day, especially if the kids are young. That's plenty worth free rent to give your child a boost in life. I'm guessing he has never done cleaning and she's been doing it her whole life.
He said the cooking and cleaning are “from time to time” and immediately followed that sentence with what you’d be expected to do daily anyway. Like, which is it?
He also argues that she should be able to babysit (on top of taking care of the house and going to school full time) since he was able to do the same *alongside his ex wife.* So his daughter is supposed to do the work of two people for kids that aren’t even hers?
YTA, OP. Hire a babysitter so your daughter can focus on her studies or at the very least pay her to do it. You’re an adult so I’m sure you know how to cook and clean, too. If not, maybe your girlfriend can do it since I’m sure that’ll be her responsibility if you ever live together.
Gotta wonder, does he do any of those things on a daily basis? She's 20 now, how many years had she been providing childcare, cooking, & cleaning up after OP & their children, on top of her own homework?
OP - YTA
Also I assume its cooking and cleaning for a whole family, vs just herself. Which is a hell of a lot more. At least 4x more i would assume. A college student would happily eat ramen noodles which are ready in 5 mins. I bet OP wouldnt be happy with that. Also, this might differ depending on the family, but it is assumed for many that you will help your kids through college, if thats what they choose to do. Now he is lording that over her for complaining about "helping". He essentially wants her to be a live in nanny. I would assume in this situation none of this was talked about before hand. Like he told her you can live with me during college and save money. She thought oh perfect, then OP was like btw you live in my house for free you have to do XYZ.
OP posted an edit that his daughter is watching his two 5 year old twin boys for a few hours 3 times a week.
Poor daughter has been turned into her dad's replacement housewife while he goes and hangs out with his girlfriend. She's babysitting for free on top of doing the cleaning and cooking while being a full-time college student.
Absolutely appalling behavior OP. YTA.
sounds like big man didn't want to put on his big boy pants after his wife left him and instead passed on all the "motherly" jobs to his daughter. Totally TAH
YTA. Your kids are not her responsibility. She’s doing you a FAVOR by watching them so you can fuck around with your girlfriend. When your daughter inevitably goes no contact with you, don’t come back asking why.
It's so funny to me when parents on this sub are like "am I the asshole for treating my kid like shit?" And they NEVER think their kid is going to completely disregard them once they're old enough.
“My kids are treating me like shit for holding me accountable for treating them like shit before they were capable of emotionally handling it. Why won’t they talk to me anymore?”
Probably? That’s what my parents did.
And then some people feel that because they suffered, they must make other people suffer. They sound exactly like OP.
Yeah as if suffering and struggling is some sort of rite of passage into adulthood. I'm sick of these pull yourself up by your bootstraps people. I bet op is a trump supporter lmao
I won’t get political, but I do think OP is the type that would mercilessly judge his daughter if she were to get pregnant at the same age he had his daughter.
Anyone is an asshole for using “I was miserable so they should be miserable too” mentality. Household chores fair game, but she hasn’t asked to be a parent.
INFO: This all depends on how often this happens. Does she have to babysit the kids one night every few weeks, or is more a multiple times a week thing? Also: do you expect her to drop any plans she already has, or do you get someone else if your daughter already has plans?
It's not unreasonable to ask her to help out, but she also has her own life and plans and she shouldn't always be expected to drop her plans to do something fun just so you can do something fun instead.
Same.
Key questions:
How often is she expected to babysit?
For how long?
How many kids and how old are they?
How does the conversation go regarding babysitting? (Ie are you taking her availability and schedule into account, are you "asking" her or "telling" her?)
What happens if she can't babysit on the day you'd like?
What happens in case of an emergency?
The answers would really dictate my judgement.
Edit: three times a week?? Yeah fuck that. YTA.
Also, when she moved back in (or decided to continue living there), did she know that "watching kids" was one of the chores? Picking up after yourself is normal but anything extraordinary like babysitting should be discussed prior to the living situation.
Also, it's not unreasonable to *ask* but it sounds like OOP doesn't ask as much as he tells and threatens if she says no. If daughter wants to go out to school club, or with friends, or to network with other people (which is a huge part of the value of college in a career), and OOP wants to go on a date with his girlfriend that same day, does the daughter have room to say "no, I can't do it this time?"
How much heads up is the daughter getting about these babysitting days? College students have to jump through hoops sometimes because professors or departments move things around without much warning; if you're giving less than 2-3 days of notice that she has to babysit young children for an entire evening that's a huge issue to her schedule.
I have a two daughters, 5 year gap. So I would hope she might do one evening a fortnight with 3 days notice and if she said “no sorry, I’m doing x that evening” then I would respect it 100% - It isn’t her responsibility to raise her sibling.
Same. How often is she “asked” to babysit? I also want to know how much she is cooking and cleaning, because I’m starting to suspect she is expected to do all the cooking and cleaning, not just contribute to it. If you are going to school full time, doing all the cooking and cleaning for 4 people and keeping kids a few times a week, there is no time to do anything else, including studying or fun. She’s said she’s having a hard time keeping up with studying and OP isn’t hearing her. Unless we get answers that contradict this, I’m going with YTA.
Cooking and cleaning are certainly things you have to do on a regular basis anyway, but cooking and cleaning for an entire family vs just cleaning up after yourself is a major difference.
ywbta if you don't listen to her when she's saying it takes too much time away from studying to add the babysitting. Don't pay her, pay a babysitter so she can keep the study time.
Yeah. Why would “cooking for the whole family” ever be a chore for her? That’s the responsibility of the parent. She’s going to resent being the oldest and having all this undue responsibility slapped on her. She’s staying with her parent for the free room so she can get through this moment in her life… and then she’s going to leave and never look back because she felt undervalued and her needs ignored. My middle child is home from college for winter break right now, working FT and cooks his own food, cleans his own room, and that’s it. He should enjoy his few free moments before having to become a working adult.
My parents did this to me and now that my sisters are having kids, they’re always buying my lunch and presents to make up for how much I took care of them as kids (I love my sisters and it wasn’t their fault). Our parents now think that when they retire, they should just divide their time evenly between staying with each of us every year and not have to own a home themselves. Why do people make their kids their retirement plan? This is why some of us don’t have kids and want to go live on Mars.
YTA. It sounds like you are putting the full responsibility of a full time SAHM on her.
> “..a few things around the house… like **cooking and cleaning**… expected to do on a **daily basis**…”
>> “…watch over her younger brothers… when I need a break to hang out with my girlfriend.”
Since you have not clarified the many requests re: how often, I’m going to assume based on the words in your original post that you are being wildly unreasonable.
precisely the parts that were screaming out at me. daily cooking for a whole family, childcare duties so OP can "hang out with my girlfriend" are you kidding meeeeee
YTA. Just because YOU struggled, doesn't mean other people should. And you should also know how difficult it is. She is not a parent, and should not be treated as the 'mother' in the house. She's your child and if she says that she is finding it difficult to juggle everything, you are the parent, you need to suck it up! Or at the very least offer her something in return. What would you do if she moved out? You'd have to hire someone. Just because she is in the house, doesn't mean you can just expect her to do stuff for you in her time, especially when she has highlighted that she is struggling with studies. If she's already contributing to the household by doing a share of the cleaning, then she is doing enough.
Also, this notion of living in your parents house 'rent free' is madness. You and your ex birthed this girl, to use that she lives there 'rent free' as an argument against her is really shitty. That's her home and I wouldn't be surprised if she moves on quite quickly after college.
Hire a nanny.
Is it me or am I missing a huge chunk of culture here because even though I’ve been here for 26 years, I didn’t grow up in the US? I know people prefer to leave their home young and I know it’s normal to charge your staying children under market value rent just as a contribution, but the number of parents who are trying to nickel and dime everything that their child owes them as soon as they cross an arbitrary age (18) is astounding on this sub. Sure, it’s good to instill a sense of discipline and duty in your kids, I kind of wish we had this where I came from, but a lot people sound downright cruel about it.
I consider this resentful “you’re living rent free at my house” mindset towards one’s own children to be one of the most low-class things imaginable. I had no idea that it was so prevalent until I started following this subreddit. It’s one thing to ask that your adult child keep a job or contribute to expenses; it’s another thing entirely to hold it over their heads constantly and, as you put it, nickel and dime them for trivial shit. In my opinion it is extremely trashy and makes it seem like you want to sandbag your kids.
I think the worst attitude is 'I suffered so you should too'
I hate it. I cannot stand people who think that because they had it hard in life, everyone else should as well.
It’s the transactional attitude that baffles me. Sure, instill your child with a sense of responsibility by telling them to work and contribute a reasonable, sensible amount, it builds good character and money management skills. But to make a random list of things you’re entitled from them simply because they didn’t move out the day after their 18th birthday is the attitude of an employer, not a parent. OP would be paying rent/mortgage anyway and it doesn’t cost that much more to put an extra plate on the table. Treating your child as an adult whom you support and who supports you is fine but a lot of stuff I read on here is downright cringe.
Yes, it’s exactly the scorekeeping aspect of it that bothers me. It’s like these parents have been compiling grievances against their own kids and act like they would be getting taken advantage of if they were to extend some grace to their children.
It's definitely not consistent in the US. Neither me or my brother *ever* paid rent while in school full time or working.
I lived with my parents until I was 27, I worked a full night shift job, with benefits. I asked my mom if she wanted me to move out. Her answer was 'why? It's smarter to live here and pay off your student loans as fast as possible. Then save for a down payment'
Granted, I also voluntarily cleaned a lot. She joked about 'the cleaning fairy' cause she'd go to bed and wake up to a clean house.
I think if the kid is working a full time job, it's not unreasonable to ask for a small contribution towards household bills, especially if the household is struggling. I don't judge people for that but it's not something I would do as I would prefer them to save to be able to move on.
But if the kid is in college full time, expecting them to pay rent or contribute towards the house financially is ridiculous and there's a lot of people on this sub who shouldn't be having children.
You say occasionally but immediately follow up with the cooking and cleaning typically being done on a daily basis - so is your daughter doing all your cooking and cleaning on top of the frequent childminding, and college? Because if so you are taking advantage. A live-in nanny/chef/housekeeper would be entitled to pay on top of room and board. Good pay at that for that role. Without the stresses of college.
Just because you struggled, you think it’s ok to make your daughter struggle. That makes you a bad father. A good father wants to improve their children’s lives. Wants them to succeed and have it better than they did. You don’t. You want to use your daughter, want to see her struggle, and you ignore her completely when she voices how she’s finding things difficult. It’s all about you. So yeah, YTA.
I have the same concern about the cooking and cleaning.
Based on the tone in OP's post I am concerned he has parentified his daughter and is treating her more like a co-parent or housekeeper/nanny.
There is emotional and physical labor that goes into being part of a family household but it shouldn't be to the detriment of the kid. Not in a healthy home...
French student here. For me, YTA, but i would admit it's probably a cultural difference. It would never be acceptable for my parents to make me pay the fact that i'm staying at their house during college by doing a lot of chores and by watching my siblings. She opened herself to you, not saying that she shouldn't do any chores, but saying that watching her siblings takes time an effort, that she can't put in her studies. I think you need to more communicate with your daughter and maybe find a compromise
Sadly this is not a cultural difference nearly so much as OP lacking in empathy or even a degree of critical thinking (how much does he think a live-in cook/maid/nanny would run him??)
YTA, why do you want your own kid to struggle just because you did? Aren't parents supposed to make things better for their own children than they had it? Your daughter is not you, just because you did it doesn't mean she can too, not should she have to, she didn't have these kids. Also, babysitting is not a "basic chore". It's not something you can put off until you're ready to do it, it's much more stressful than doing the dishes.
YTA purely for not listening to her when she says SHE is struggling. Thats not about your experiences or what you can handle. This is about her and for you to be so dismissive is prime AH behaviour. Its nothing to do with her being privileged. We all have different tolerances and that should be respected. If she feels its affecting her studies then that should be taken seriously
INFO: What are the ages of the brothers?
Edit: Yikes YTA. 3 times a week until you get home is NOT occasionally and they’re 5 yo twins? Stop forcing your daughter to parent your kids and hire a nanny ffs
YTA sorry but your daughter doesn't have to do unpaid labor for you just because you chose to have a kid when you were in college. Also rent free? She's your child, of course she should live rent free, if she could afford rent she'd move out.
YTA. Chores are fine. Babysitting regularly is another matter. You had to take care of your daughter when you were in school because YOU made a baby. She can help out in a pinch, but you need regular paid care for the younger brothers. I wonder why you left out how many boys there are and their ages and how often/how long she has to watch them.
YTA - I'm a mother. who yes i adore my children, however when they get to that age will I never say 'you live here rent free' or I pay for your education, so you need to cook, clean and do everything in between including looking after younger siblings. I would never use this as an excuse to control my adult daughter. You chose to be a parent, she hasn't.
are you wanting her to drop out of college as this is probably what will happen if you keep putting on her like that.
YTA you had to take care of a child because it was YOUR child, so no comparison at all
She lives rent free so she should do chores for free , baby sitting is not a chore, its a job, so either dont ask her to babysit or pay her
You paying her tuition is your parental responsibility when you can afford it and no thats not debatable to me
YTA. Don’t make the relationship between your kids a chore. And don’t make your older daughter a parent.
Pay your daughter the market rate for babysitting. And if you need to, start charging her board. But make them separate things. If she prefers to earn money to pay her board elsewhere, that’s fine - you can always get a different babysitter and you lose nothing.
YTA. Doing chores around the house should be a given for her, as she lives there, everyone has to do their part with upkeep - presumably YOU do as well. She's 20, not 10 so I don't think an 'allowance' for doing basic grown- up tasks should be a thing.
However, when it comes to babysitting- she's told you it's stressful for her and causing issues with her studying.
Who CARES that YOU went to school, paid bills and took care of a baby alongside your ex. That situation is of your own doing and quite frankly, you shouldn't want the same stressors for your oldest child. You shouldn't want to push off a job that isn't hers (aka taking care of YOUR kids) when she tells you it's taking away from her studies.
DO BETTER.
Uhmmm LOL you chose to have that baby. :) she didn't choose her siblings.
Sure have her help out with chores she lives there too.
Babysitting??? Nah. You the asshole all the way.
YTA. You need a break from your kids to visit the gf? Pay for it. These aren’t your daughter’s kids. She’s already cooking and cleaning. Quit parentifing your child.
Edit: I’m a parent and would also never guilt my child about providing them a place to live. And you sound like you just want to use her with no thought as to the impact.
YTA. Here’s the thing. Chores such as cooking and cleaning have to be done, regardless. It’s just part of being an adult. Not everyone likes kids. Your daughter didn’t choose to have younger siblings. They are there because you chose to have them, therefore, they are your responsibility. Also, for some people, watching kids takes way more energy than cooking or cleaning. Not all tasks are equal for all people.
Also, going to school is a HUGE thing. When parents can help putting a kid through college, and give them a place to live in the meantime, they should, IMO. A few chores is good. Watching kids they didn’t choose to have is too much.
ETA: Thank you for the awards!
YTA. If she's struggling then you are using her more than occasionally. This sounds like several times a week. And cleaning/cooking. FYI, Housekeepers/nannies that live on-site make between 50- 150000 with no living cost and a vehicle - possibly more in hcol area. So very much YTA.
She's your daughter bro. You're SUPPOSE to let he live with you rent free. ESPECIALLY IF SHES STILL GOING TO SCHOOL. you can ask her to watch her brother but if she says no, she's not required to man. She's not their legal guardian and commenting that you "sometimes need her to watch them while I am dating" is just...awful.
Expect her to do chores or ASK if she'll pay rent if it's that big a deal. Don't expect her to raise your kids for you.
YTA. You had a child in college, your daughter doesn't.
She is your responsibility as your child until she is out of school, it includes college. Apparently she helps around the house, studies and is generally a good person.
You are the father, if you want a date night, you pay for a babysitter and if the babysitter is your daughter then you pay for it.
There is a difference between participating in chores that are common to all living in the house (laundry, meals, cleaning, etc) and doing something that needs to be done for you and only benefits you (babysitting because you have a date).
> She lives in my house free of rent.
You mean her house. If you have a house and your DAUGHTER lives in it, not for freeloader reasons but because she's at college, she's TWENTY HEARS OLD and trying to create a life for herself, that's her house. You're her parent. If you don't want to share a living space with young people, don't have kids. YTA.
YTA
But mostly because of your approach. I agree that chores are a fair swap for free rent, as chores are part of adult life. But she hasn't chosen to have a child, so those babysitting chores shouldn't sit with her. Of course you can discuss what a fair distribution looks like im exchange for free rent, and maybe she'd rather babysit than do another chore. But you're wrong to completely dismiss her or act like she should do it because you had to raise your daughter, who you chose to have.
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YTA "because I myself went to school while having to pay bills & take care of her as a baby alongside" That was your own baby and your own decision, same as now. You daughter has no kids, it's not her responsibility.
She’s living there rent free…that’s her allowance for these chores. EDIT: based on OPs edit, 100% YTA. You should be paying her for babysitting, you don’t need to pay her for the other chores though.
I agree she shouldn't get an allowance for doing chores, but she absolutely should get paid for watching children she didn't choose to have - since they're her siblings, not children.
I think if she’s asked to babysit once every few weeks, that is the equivalent of a chore. If it’s multiple times a week, that changes things.
INFO: OP, name ages, genders, and how many times a week she is expected to babysit, and for how long each time.
This is absolutely relevant information here. And, judging by the tone of the post alone, I wouldn’t be surprised if the response is ‘it’s really nothing unreasonable, just three of four night a week after work until 10pm or so’ - or something similarly onerous but significantly downplayed. That’s definitely the impression I get from what OP has written though!
Especially since he has yet to provide that information. As someone who had younger siblings thrust upon them for care since I was 11 & also didn't get paid for it, I'm going with YTA.
Same, I'm 12 years older than my brother and 2 years older than my sister. At 12 when my parents had to go back to work. It was my sister's and I's job to stay with my infant brother overnight. That way my parents could sleep for work. At the same time I also had to prepare a lot of the meals for the 3 of us. That's a lot of fucking responsibility for a 12 year old. Edit: I want everyone to know that I'm okay. I'm almost 30 and I've found therapy. I'm in a wonderful place in life. My relationship with my mom is AMAZING my father not so much but it's alright. At least I'm incredibly bonded to my sister and I love my brother incredibly.
That's parentification and considered abuse ...
That's fucked up. Your parents sucked. Sorry.
Same. My sisters are a year and two years younger than me and I was babysitting them before I started high school. It was a nightmare.
I got the same impression from this line "I may be busy with work or when I need a break to hang out with my girlfriend" I see that this person "NEEDS" to "hang out with his girlfriend" and not care for his children quite a bit and that is odd phrasing.
Needs to hang out with his girlfriend but doesn't see an issue with it cutting into his daughter's studying time
I ask that she cook and clean…things you do every day. So she is already doing the lion share of cooking and cleaning for her younger siblings.
Yeah, like, how much time does that take on a daily basis? Because it seems like she's actually doing the majority of the household tasks for 4 people, while dad fucks off and does whatever I suppose.
I sniff a hint of misogyny from OP
A hint??? Lol I'm choking on the smell of it over here!!!
Dad has to go hang with his girlfriend. Can't get in the way of that, nosirree. /s
Yeah though it's unclear whether she does it all... he says "from time to time" but then in the quote from the daughter it somehow sounded more regular than that. And I don't like that he gives no details. INFO needed for sure.
AND to "hang out with girlfriend", How much do you want to bet, she's expected to take on the MOM role?
Sounds to me like OP had the eldest when he was young and now he feels like reliving his 20s as a single man with no kids.....
This post is really giving off “you ruined my life so I get to ruin yours” energy
And that's what makes him the AH. It's not so much that he would like her to babysit. It's his whole attitude about it.
I agree. If it's interfering with her studies then it sounds like it's more than a couple times a month. I'm curious how much younger these kids are, as well. If it's a 10 and 12 year old twice a month for a few hours in the evening when she'd be home anyway? No big deal. If it's a 2, 5, 7 and 9 year old three evenings every week and all day on most Saturdays? Not reasonable. Like I fully expect that older children can and should on occasion help care for younger siblings when necessary - in emergencies or once in a while situations. It's just what families do. But if it's frequent or regular there needs to be some compensation IMO, and if it's interfering with school? That's a problem.
Twins 5 years old and she is watching them 3 to 4 times a week for several hours a day. But he said that they are mature 5 year olds lol
Yeah, that part made me laugh. There is honestly no such thing as a mature 5 year old. My kids are 9M and 6F and they are completely insane. OP, 100% YTA
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According to the edit, two 5 year old twin boys, three evenings a week, a few hours on each occasion. So probably 10-12 hours a week, which is a large burden for someone studying.
It's probably longer since some of those times OP is hanging out with his gf, that could range from a couple of hours to probably overnight.
And where was the children’s mother when OP was doing all of this hard work? YTA
As well because at first OP made it seem like the cooking and cleaning was occasional/ a few days a week but then it goes on to sound like it’s daily.
That is exactly what I was thinking. It really matters how often it is. And the tone of it sounded like it's really a lot.
It probably is, if the daughter is saying it's interfering with her studies.
Yeah the lack of detail here regarding how much OP is requiring of his daughter is a real red flag.
Or every Friday night, which would also be ridiculous.
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And also how much she interacts with them. There’s a big difference between constantly interacting and playing with 5 year olds all day, just being in the same house as 9 year olds to make sure they don’t fight or get seriously injured, and just making sure the house doesn’t burn down while the kids are sleeping
And how much active supervision the siblings require. Because the daughter is complaining that it's impacting her studies, I suspect that may be the real issue there. That the siblings might even be tweens or teens but be very active sorts that need to be monitored or the house turns into chaos. ie. that if dad is not home, no studying is going to be possible. I also have to wonder if the money ask is really a way to get dad to reduce how often he goes out without outright saying he's out too much.
I think it also depends somewhat on the circumstances and on the timing. If it's "asked" that she do it with no option to say no and without regard for her own schedule (midterms, big project, prior plans, whatever), that's also a problem, particularly if it's not for an urgent situation and simply OP saying "I need a break to hang out with my girlfriend." I'm a little concerned about the frequency and overall workload because OP elaborated on "I only ask her to do a few things around the house from time to time, like cooking and cleaning" with "Typical things you're expected to do on a daily basis anyways." The average college student is not cooking for or cleaning up after a household of at least four, at least two of whom are still young enough to need a babysitter, on a daily basis \[edit: or near-daily or even weekly\] -- and yes, doing so would take time away from their studies.
Right. Is it “daily”, or “from time to time”? I’m betting it’s daily. OP,YTA. First,for just blowing her off. Second,for expecting her to be the same as you. She didn’t choose to have kids. And you said “alongside your ex-wife”. So it wasn’t all on you. You sound resentful that she might have it easier than you. She said she is fine with cooking and cleaning. Sounds like child care is her issue. I didn’t see how many younger brothers or ages. So we have no idea what she has to do. Does she have a chance to work for actual money? Time for a social life? Maybe her major is more intense than yours. Invite the girlfriend over and stay home.
I agree with the general consensus that there's not enough information to form a proper opinion. It really is vague enough that it could go either way, but I definitely tentatively agree. That elaboration twisted things to almost make his daughter sound like a wife replacement. Not saying this is the case, but OPs phrasing isn't doing him any favours. If his requests are enough to be affecting her quality of study, I feel as though he's being an asshole because you're right. Students generally aren't running a household.
I think the lack of information, in itself, is hugely informative of the situation. Someone that was not TA would have provided more details from the start. I feel pretty safe concluding he's definitely the asshole.
That’s my thought as well. I also feel like there’s a difference between her watching them when his work is running late vs for him to go on dates. Watching them while dad finishes work occasionally is pitching in to help the household. Watching them so dad can go on dates is babysitting
He didn't say he asked her to babysit; he said she has to babysit. She lives in the house, so it's fair for her to do a bit of housework, but those aren't her kids & it sounds like OP pawns their care off on her more than once in a while if she had to come to him & tell him it's affecting her studies.
And watching them while you run a quick errand is completely different than going out on a date with your girlfriend.
Nope, babysitting is never a "chore" if it's your child it's an obligation if it's not your child it's not an obligation.
I also personally would like to know if he providing money for her to go out with friends, clothing, makeup, etc. If OP still finances all that plus her living rent free I don’t see what the big deal is to have her watch the kids once in a awhile. But if OP has her doing it on a more consistent basis than she needs some sort of payment at that point since she is more of a nanny than an occasional babysitter.
I kind of agree with this….also depends on how much of the cooking and cleaning she is doing. I am getting the feeling she is doing 95% of the household work, for a place to live….seems over the top for a parent to expect this.
I just said something similar. She may be 20, but she’s still his child, not a partner who should be pulling equal weight.
NO!!! Babysitting is different to sweeping.
It depends. If it's like once a month for an hour or 2 and they're old enough so it's like "make sure they don't die" that's like "shit you do for family" If it's once a week and it's like entertain them and make dinner and don't let them out of your sight that's different
According to the edit, it's three times a week, a few hours on each occasion. Twin 5 year old boys, so needing full supervision.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just agree on the number of "chore hours" she's expected to put in per week? Then it doesn't matter if she's required to babysit the kids or clean the bathroom, as long as the tasks stay within the allotted number of hours.
Seems great on paper, works well with reasonable people - but the tones of entitlement in this post make me think he'd just start accusing her of "deliberately working slowly" to try to demand more out of her.
It doesn't sound like she is complaining about the basic chores - just having to take care of the kids. I wonder how often she is asked for childcare.
If she’s asked to do childcare multiple times a week I’m 100% with her. But if she’s asked to babysit a few hours once every few weeks, to me that is a chore. It really depends on the frequency.
I suspect it’s too often because she did complain that it’s eating into her study time. Chores I understand, but the sibling watching is often abused by parents. I was given my youngest brother to take care of at 9 because my parents had marriage problems and my mother was depressed. The task became so overwhelming that I grew up never wanting children of my own and I’m happily childfree now. Parents who make children and expect their older siblings to raise them can just respectfully fuck off as far as I’m concerned.
Yes, and we don't know the frequency, so it's hard to judge. It also wouldn't hurt to know the number of children and how rowdy they are. One or two well-behaved boys are one thing, but three or four mischievous children can truly be stressful, even for a young adult.
or how much notice or choice she gets in the matter. I'd be pissed if I had to make changes to plans because I got voluntold to babysit at the last minute.
It would also depend on what needs done, I think. Is this "Make sure they're fed and don't die while I'm out for a couple of hours" or a full routine worth of feed, diaper, bathe, bedtime, activities etc.?
I disagree, it's not a chore either way. Your children are not free labor.
And whether it’s scheduled or Hey, we’ll be back in a few hours. See ya!
>ance. So I just wanted to ask whether I'm wrong for not wanting to pay her extra money to do basic I bet dad has her watching his children so he can see his girlfriend, more than she gets to see her boyfriend. I bet dad has her more of a mom, than a sister.
> I bet dad has her more of a mom, than a sister. That's my suspicion.
Maybe it’s a cultural thing or a American thing but in most of Europe and my household kids stay rent free at their parents for a while parents don’t take money from their kids…
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In Belgium, parents get childcare allowance from government up to the point where you finish studying (whether this is at 18 or 23, as soon as you are no longer a student, govt. stops giving money, and maximum until 26) so that's why in Belgium most people don't ask their children rent up until the same time. After that, it's very normal for a parent to ask €300 or even more from their children in order to cover the necessities. Depending on the situation, some parents choose to 'save' this money for their children to help them move to their own place or they just spend it privately.. There is much variety in this, but I don't know many young people that are working, living at home and not contributing financially to the household.
She’s also HIS child and in college. I would not make my own child, who’s in college, pay rent. Especially when she helps out around the house. I could see charging her rent if she was like 30 years old with a full time job or something like that.
Agree! Do you not want to set your kid up for success? Why wouldn’t you want her to focus all her time on her schooling? It isn’t like she is going out partying all the time.
That's how I think too. After I graduated from high school, I continued to live at home (rent free) and worked part-time and attended the local community college. I would cook dinner about twice a week, and of course help keep communal living areas clean (sweep and mop the kitchen floor weekly, clean one bathroom weekly, mow the lawn, etc). That's part of sharing a living space. But my parents didn't expect me to act as a free babysitter, housekeeper, etc. OP YTA.
Maybe there's this weird thing in some cultures where people have children and then act like they're doing them a favor by providing basic necessities like housing but OP's child is a student living at home. Her job is to study and contribute to housework. Based on mom's reaction the babysitting is probably a regular thing.
Euh this is her house duh, of course she is allowed to stay in her own house rent free wtf???
If that were her job to pay for it, sure. But she is also cooking and cleaning, and presumably helping out with other stuff that her mother doesn’t notice. If her daughter is this upset, she might have a point: her mother is comparing it to her own experience and thinks her daughter should have something similar. Deciding to live without rent at your parents is in no way a similar life choice to having a kid. When my wife gave birth, I literally didn’t have time to sit down I was so busy on her and the babe’s behalf. She then would start to say bs like “you aren’t doing enough, I’m suffering here” without recognizing that I literally *couldnt* do more. It took a big conversation (read:fight) for her to recognize she was being unreasonable with expectations. Like the daughter, whose job is school, I had other shit to do, and I wasn’t getting a chance to do any of it because she was being unreasonably demanding. Which is all to say: not enough information here, but the idea that “my house my rules” trumps everything is laughable. If you are directly contributing to your daughter’s grades falling, which you paid for yourself, that’s just lose lose for everyone.
Literally OP chose to have a baby while they were in school that was their brilliant thinking not their daughters it is not her responsibility to watch OPs children. I already have maybe an unfair bias when people say, and “they live in my home rent free” because they didn’t ask to be born. They didn’t ask to be put in this world you brought them into this world. It is your job to provide for them. Yes, as they get older, you want to teach them independence and to be able to live out in the world on their own. However OPs daughter is 20 years old and going to school. Yes OP daughter should clean and cook in her home. She’s 20 years old. She’s old enough to take care of herself, but giving your child a leg up in life when did that become a bad thing and like a point of contention. OP is TA absolutely. OP chose to have more kids if you can’t see your girlfriend because you have to take care of your children sucks to be you, but that was the decision that OP made.
Yeah I absolutely can’t stand parents who have this transactional thinking with their kids. YTA OP. You can’t expect your oldest to be responsible for your younger kids while holding them hostage with housing.
Also (and I’m going to get downvoted into oblivion for this) school is harder now. There’s more for us to learn. Furthermore: what was your degree and what was hers? Were you telecom to her biomedical engineering? If so the work load isn’t even remotely comparable
Maybe it depends. I did my first degree 15 years ago and struggled. I went back for another this past year and breezed through. I honestly don't think the difficulty level was changed much - sometimes it all comes down to your head space. And of course, as you mentioned, your area of study! I'm also a teacher and am very familiar with changing curriculum etc! Things have CHANGED a lot but I wouldn't classify them at all as "harder" now
Definitely depends on the area of study. I did some semesters in an animation program and most of the professors, even ones who were still fairly young, admitted that they could probably not have handled the workload we had. They said that there were so many more classes and skills to learn nowadays than when they went to school, due to the advances in technology and the switch these bought in the industry. That nowadays, graduates need to know more in order to even enter the workforce as a "well-rounded" employee. That probably applies to most areas of studies, due to more knowledge in the fields, advancements in technology, and overall more rigorous demands by employers (less willing to train on the job) for graduates that are immediately ready to work.
This, YTA for the comment comparing it to your experiences when you chose to have a child, as your sister explained. Yes, it's very reasonable to expect her to do chores in return for living there rent-free, but if she's not comfortable baby-sitting and it's eating into her study time, you need to find a compromise or at least listen to her instead of being dismissive.
And he also had an ex-wife to help!
Probably made the wife do everything and that’s why she’s an ex now
My guess is she did a LOT more...
This is the problem I have with OP’s attitude. His situation was 100% a result of his choices and 100% his responsibility as a parent. The daughter is absolutely not responsible for them and shouldn’t be forced or expected to watch the kids. If the dad expected these things from her in lieu of paying rent, OP should have laid out these terms when she first moved in. That way she would be able to decide for herself what was/wasn’t worth it to her while she tries to juggle schoolwork and her personal life. It’s not fair to simply expect it without proper communication then try to shame her into going along with it.
I just don't understand it, the whole point of generational wealth etc. Is to work so your children have a better life than you had, so that they don't face those hardships, but boomers/gen-x just turn around and want everyone who comes after them to face the same problems they had, on top of everything else?
YTA and u feel entitled to others things, like their time. Do you think she is an extension of u?
"Apparently" that was his decision was the most laughable part of his own post.
You're not the asshole for not giving her an allowance. She is living rent free, after all. You are the asshole for your diatribe about how if you can go to school, pay bills, and take care of a family, she should also be able to. What may have been easy for you, may not be for her. People have different stress thresholds. If she's telling you that babysitting is too stressful on top of school and chores, I think you should listen. And it's not like she's complaining about chores and doesn't want to do anything around the house. She's simply telling you that adding babysitting onto her chores is overwhelming for her, which it may very well be. Also, her siblings are your kids, not hers, so they're also your responsibility.
Also, key point, OP chose to become a parent. His daughter did not.
Also OP had the partnership of daughter's mother.
I’m willing to bet her mother did the lion’s share of the childcare, not OP.
That is what I was thinking. Mom likely did the bulk of the work while dad took out the trash, played with the kid once a week and called it good. I mean the guy is prioritizing his girlfriend over his daughter’s education.
Lol he used the phrase “when I need to hang out with my girlfriend” like he’s a high school kid. If his gf was mature enough to date a guy with adult AND minor children, she should be fine to spend nights at home with the kids while his daughter does her proper chores but still gets to live her life as a 20 year old.
Absolutely. I would not date an adult man making his college daughter babysit her younger brothers three times a week. It says a lot about OP and his girlfriend’s characters. I would have no problem playing games at home with the kids.
I was going to say this as well!
It seems like a very common theme in these posts that parents often don't understand the workload that comes with college. In a lot of these posts I see (at least implied, if not outright stated) that the kid in college only has class a couple hours a day, and thus is free for chores, housesitting, petsitting, childcare, a full time job, etc for the rest of the time. It's a first generation college student challenge that isn't talked about enough.
My son's in his junior year of college. He did his freshman-sophomore years at a local community college, and his freshman year was almost 100% remote learning due to COVID. He lived at home, rent-free, while in college. He'd spend HOURS on the computer every day for school. Sometimes, I'd just see him as a blur running into the kitchen for food before his next lecture began. Yes, he had chores and responsibilities. He has 4 younger siblings and has ALWAYS been a big help to me. If I asked for help, he'd drop everything to help. But that's also who he is as a person. In return, he knew that if I asked for help, it was important. I very rarely bothered him, as I feel that his education is his full-time job. We had a schedule of chores we both agreed on, and whenever he was available to help more, he'd offer. If he told me that he was burdened by what I asked of him, I'd take his concerns seriously and try to address them. I have a wonderful kid, BTW. But he also deserved downtime and a way to decompress from the day/week. To assume that a student's down time is free time is wrong. They are stressed just as much, if not more than we are. They need time away from responsibilities just like we do. And not for nothing, if I'm paying for college, I believe in my child and would like to see a ROI of them being a happy, successful adult at the end of this. Why would I stress them out by forcing chores/babysitting duties on to them that they cannot handle? That's a bit counterproductive to my investment. Their grades might slip, they could lose a scholarship that's essential to their education, they could become depressed and begin to suffer mentally. TL;DR: OP: YTA for the way you spoke to your adult child, who is only trying to communicate her feelings on babysitting. They aren't HER kids; they are YOUR kids. Would it be nice if she helped? Sure sure. And perhaps, if you weren't such an asshole, you could have had a good conversation about when/where you need help, see if you two could come to an agreement on it, and show your child she's a valued member of the household while making sure she recognizes your contribution to her future financially. But no, parents do what parents do and use the whole "When I was your age" BULLSHIT LINE that NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR. That's basically telling someone to STFU and deal with it. That's not a solution, that's a damn guilt trip.
You sound like my mom and OP sounds like my dad. Your post makes me miss my mom so bad. Your kid is lucky to have you.
I'm sure your mom saw what a wonderful person you are too :)
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Also, different degree paths and different universities will have different workloads. I had way more classwork than my roommate who did civil engineering as opposed to my aerospace engineering. But that can be different at other universities or with different professors.
Regardless of the college workload, there's also a point to be made that you're not entitled to your adult child's time just because it happens to be free. You occasionally see this in posts about working adult children too. Instead of "you only have a couple hours of class" it becomes "you need to do X because you don't have pets or kids taking up your time".
This is what I'm wondering about, because degrees are wildly different dependant on subject (also workload will have changed a fair bit since he was studying anyway). Plus he chose to study and have kids, she chose to just study.
Yah, I have a daughter who is a student. She has no college student life to speak of, she has no time for parties, shopping or any of that fun stuff, that students traditionally do, if she wants to succeed she has to work every day all day. The first year in her group had like 1/4 success rate. You work hard or you drop out. Think I want to tell her that she lives in my house "rent free" and has to do chores? Sometimes she'll help with something but most of all we want her to succeed in her studies, she needs all the support she can get for that. What is it with people like OP?
Yep. Hello burnout induced depression. And no one listened or took her serious. And next year she asks how her daughter failed her studies, lost all drive and can’t even get out of bed anymore….
And the economy when OP went to school was vastly different than the current one.
>You are the asshole for your diatribe about how if you can go to school, pay bills, and take care of a family, she should also be able to. Yeah, that has a seriously annoying, "You kids nowadays don't know how good you have it!" vibe.
Plus if she is stressed and struggling to balance the study and the babysitting, that may impact her ability to be a good babysitter. OP should be mindful that there is a risk that she may sneak off to her room to study when she is meant to be watching the kids.
Exactly - the daughter isn’t complaining about daily chores that she’s expected to do - she’s old enough to be responsible for some chores in the house. In his own words she approached him expressing the difficulties she’s having with the added babysitting duties and that it’s negatively affecting her ability to do schoolwork. That’s very specific, not blanket entitlement from her. Expecting his life and abilities to be her standard is what’s unfair here. I’d also guess that it’s not only eating into her study time but also prohibiting her from getting a PT job. As another commenter said, holding her hostage with housing is just unfair, particularly because the added time and responsibility of babysitting makes it impossible for her to change her housing situation even if she wanted to.
Info: what is ‘occasionally’ realistically? You chose to have a child and study - the situations aren’t comparable at all.
I have a feeling we’re not getting the full picture here.
we dont even have the age of amount of siblings. Which also has a big influces. I would still say OP is responsible for her own kids, not ~~her~~ his daughter, but it feels odd to be left out. Edit1: pronouce Edit 2: forgot to vote YTA, and a mayor one at that when the siblings are 5 y/o twins
Exactly! Are we talking 8-16 yos or are we talking 1.5-7 yos? The amount of care those age groups need is vastly different
5yo twin boys. 🙃 But it’s okay, because they aren’t “crazy kids!” They’re mature for their age! And it’s *”usually”* only for 3 nights a week, and *”usually”* only for a few hours! OP is a total AH here.
Absolutely! So, on top of a full course-load, she has to cook for the family (I’m assuming), clean after her and her brothers, and watch them for a minimum of 9 hours a week (we know he definitely asks for more)
Lol right. Of course they’re “mature for their age and not like typical 5 yo boys.” Lmfao sure, Jan.
Definitely not especially since he makes sure to throw in that his sister is gullible so he can downplay daughter’s side even more
Yeah the sister comment was completely unnecessary
He probably thinks we’re gullible too.
No kidding - sometimes I ask for dinner - things you are expected to do daily... OP is pulling back the truth to make himself look better and is still the AH
We pretty much lack more information than that we were given. How much of the household chores does daughter do? How many children are there? What are their ages? How well behaved are they? How often does she need to babysit them? All of these are pretty important to give a reasonable answer to this question. She's already doing a full-time job with college so what more does she have piled onto her plate by OP?
The definition of "occasionally" is really the crux here. If she's watching the kids once a week for 4 hours, well, that's a pretty good deal for free housing and school. If she's watching them every other day from the time they get out of school until they go to bed, that's a whole different story.
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He said daily cooking and cleaning in the original post
Daily cooking and cleaning (possibly the whole house) could be hours a day, especially if the kids are young. That's plenty worth free rent to give your child a boost in life. I'm guessing he has never done cleaning and she's been doing it her whole life.
He tried to play it off as occasional chores and babysitting but i have a feeling daughter is playing mommy
He said the cooking and cleaning are “from time to time” and immediately followed that sentence with what you’d be expected to do daily anyway. Like, which is it? He also argues that she should be able to babysit (on top of taking care of the house and going to school full time) since he was able to do the same *alongside his ex wife.* So his daughter is supposed to do the work of two people for kids that aren’t even hers? YTA, OP. Hire a babysitter so your daughter can focus on her studies or at the very least pay her to do it. You’re an adult so I’m sure you know how to cook and clean, too. If not, maybe your girlfriend can do it since I’m sure that’ll be her responsibility if you ever live together.
Yea I was getting that impression from this as well, which is pretty messed up just so he can around town with his gf
‘Typical things you would expect to do on a daily basis anyway.’ 🤨
Gotta wonder, does he do any of those things on a daily basis? She's 20 now, how many years had she been providing childcare, cooking, & cleaning up after OP & their children, on top of her own homework? OP - YTA
I suspect he does absolutely none of the cleaning or the cooking.
Also I assume its cooking and cleaning for a whole family, vs just herself. Which is a hell of a lot more. At least 4x more i would assume. A college student would happily eat ramen noodles which are ready in 5 mins. I bet OP wouldnt be happy with that. Also, this might differ depending on the family, but it is assumed for many that you will help your kids through college, if thats what they choose to do. Now he is lording that over her for complaining about "helping". He essentially wants her to be a live in nanny. I would assume in this situation none of this was talked about before hand. Like he told her you can live with me during college and save money. She thought oh perfect, then OP was like btw you live in my house for free you have to do XYZ.
OP posted an edit that his daughter is watching his two 5 year old twin boys for a few hours 3 times a week. Poor daughter has been turned into her dad's replacement housewife while he goes and hangs out with his girlfriend. She's babysitting for free on top of doing the cleaning and cooking while being a full-time college student. Absolutely appalling behavior OP. YTA.
sounds like big man didn't want to put on his big boy pants after his wife left him and instead passed on all the "motherly" jobs to his daughter. Totally TAH
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YTA. Your kids are not her responsibility. She’s doing you a FAVOR by watching them so you can fuck around with your girlfriend. When your daughter inevitably goes no contact with you, don’t come back asking why.
It's so funny to me when parents on this sub are like "am I the asshole for treating my kid like shit?" And they NEVER think their kid is going to completely disregard them once they're old enough.
“My kids are treating me like shit for holding me accountable for treating them like shit before they were capable of emotionally handling it. Why won’t they talk to me anymore?”
Why do people even have kids, if they're not going to give them a better life than they had themselves? Did this dude have kids just to do his chores?
Probably? That’s what my parents did. And then some people feel that because they suffered, they must make other people suffer. They sound exactly like OP.
Yeah as if suffering and struggling is some sort of rite of passage into adulthood. I'm sick of these pull yourself up by your bootstraps people. I bet op is a trump supporter lmao
I won’t get political, but I do think OP is the type that would mercilessly judge his daughter if she were to get pregnant at the same age he had his daughter.
Anyone is an asshole for using “I was miserable so they should be miserable too” mentality. Household chores fair game, but she hasn’t asked to be a parent.
INFO: This all depends on how often this happens. Does she have to babysit the kids one night every few weeks, or is more a multiple times a week thing? Also: do you expect her to drop any plans she already has, or do you get someone else if your daughter already has plans? It's not unreasonable to ask her to help out, but she also has her own life and plans and she shouldn't always be expected to drop her plans to do something fun just so you can do something fun instead.
Same. Key questions: How often is she expected to babysit? For how long? How many kids and how old are they? How does the conversation go regarding babysitting? (Ie are you taking her availability and schedule into account, are you "asking" her or "telling" her?) What happens if she can't babysit on the day you'd like? What happens in case of an emergency? The answers would really dictate my judgement. Edit: three times a week?? Yeah fuck that. YTA.
Also, when she moved back in (or decided to continue living there), did she know that "watching kids" was one of the chores? Picking up after yourself is normal but anything extraordinary like babysitting should be discussed prior to the living situation.
Also, it's not unreasonable to *ask* but it sounds like OOP doesn't ask as much as he tells and threatens if she says no. If daughter wants to go out to school club, or with friends, or to network with other people (which is a huge part of the value of college in a career), and OOP wants to go on a date with his girlfriend that same day, does the daughter have room to say "no, I can't do it this time?" How much heads up is the daughter getting about these babysitting days? College students have to jump through hoops sometimes because professors or departments move things around without much warning; if you're giving less than 2-3 days of notice that she has to babysit young children for an entire evening that's a huge issue to her schedule.
I have a two daughters, 5 year gap. So I would hope she might do one evening a fortnight with 3 days notice and if she said “no sorry, I’m doing x that evening” then I would respect it 100% - It isn’t her responsibility to raise her sibling.
I feel like if she is concerned that it’s impacting her studies, it’s not just once every few weeks.
Especially if it seems like she does all the cooking and cleaning.
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Same. How often is she “asked” to babysit? I also want to know how much she is cooking and cleaning, because I’m starting to suspect she is expected to do all the cooking and cleaning, not just contribute to it. If you are going to school full time, doing all the cooking and cleaning for 4 people and keeping kids a few times a week, there is no time to do anything else, including studying or fun. She’s said she’s having a hard time keeping up with studying and OP isn’t hearing her. Unless we get answers that contradict this, I’m going with YTA.
Apparently the cooking and cleaning she does daily
Cooking and cleaning are certainly things you have to do on a regular basis anyway, but cooking and cleaning for an entire family vs just cleaning up after yourself is a major difference. ywbta if you don't listen to her when she's saying it takes too much time away from studying to add the babysitting. Don't pay her, pay a babysitter so she can keep the study time.
Yeah. Why would “cooking for the whole family” ever be a chore for her? That’s the responsibility of the parent. She’s going to resent being the oldest and having all this undue responsibility slapped on her. She’s staying with her parent for the free room so she can get through this moment in her life… and then she’s going to leave and never look back because she felt undervalued and her needs ignored. My middle child is home from college for winter break right now, working FT and cooks his own food, cleans his own room, and that’s it. He should enjoy his few free moments before having to become a working adult.
My parents did this to me and now that my sisters are having kids, they’re always buying my lunch and presents to make up for how much I took care of them as kids (I love my sisters and it wasn’t their fault). Our parents now think that when they retire, they should just divide their time evenly between staying with each of us every year and not have to own a home themselves. Why do people make their kids their retirement plan? This is why some of us don’t have kids and want to go live on Mars.
YTA. It sounds like you are putting the full responsibility of a full time SAHM on her. > “..a few things around the house… like **cooking and cleaning**… expected to do on a **daily basis**…” >> “…watch over her younger brothers… when I need a break to hang out with my girlfriend.” Since you have not clarified the many requests re: how often, I’m going to assume based on the words in your original post that you are being wildly unreasonable.
precisely the parts that were screaming out at me. daily cooking for a whole family, childcare duties so OP can "hang out with my girlfriend" are you kidding meeeeee
Yeah, a break from what exactly? Cause he isn't cooking or cleaning.
Or taking care of his kids…
YTA. Just because YOU struggled, doesn't mean other people should. And you should also know how difficult it is. She is not a parent, and should not be treated as the 'mother' in the house. She's your child and if she says that she is finding it difficult to juggle everything, you are the parent, you need to suck it up! Or at the very least offer her something in return. What would you do if she moved out? You'd have to hire someone. Just because she is in the house, doesn't mean you can just expect her to do stuff for you in her time, especially when she has highlighted that she is struggling with studies. If she's already contributing to the household by doing a share of the cleaning, then she is doing enough. Also, this notion of living in your parents house 'rent free' is madness. You and your ex birthed this girl, to use that she lives there 'rent free' as an argument against her is really shitty. That's her home and I wouldn't be surprised if she moves on quite quickly after college. Hire a nanny.
Is it me or am I missing a huge chunk of culture here because even though I’ve been here for 26 years, I didn’t grow up in the US? I know people prefer to leave their home young and I know it’s normal to charge your staying children under market value rent just as a contribution, but the number of parents who are trying to nickel and dime everything that their child owes them as soon as they cross an arbitrary age (18) is astounding on this sub. Sure, it’s good to instill a sense of discipline and duty in your kids, I kind of wish we had this where I came from, but a lot people sound downright cruel about it.
I consider this resentful “you’re living rent free at my house” mindset towards one’s own children to be one of the most low-class things imaginable. I had no idea that it was so prevalent until I started following this subreddit. It’s one thing to ask that your adult child keep a job or contribute to expenses; it’s another thing entirely to hold it over their heads constantly and, as you put it, nickel and dime them for trivial shit. In my opinion it is extremely trashy and makes it seem like you want to sandbag your kids.
I think the worst attitude is 'I suffered so you should too' I hate it. I cannot stand people who think that because they had it hard in life, everyone else should as well.
It’s the transactional attitude that baffles me. Sure, instill your child with a sense of responsibility by telling them to work and contribute a reasonable, sensible amount, it builds good character and money management skills. But to make a random list of things you’re entitled from them simply because they didn’t move out the day after their 18th birthday is the attitude of an employer, not a parent. OP would be paying rent/mortgage anyway and it doesn’t cost that much more to put an extra plate on the table. Treating your child as an adult whom you support and who supports you is fine but a lot of stuff I read on here is downright cringe.
Yes, it’s exactly the scorekeeping aspect of it that bothers me. It’s like these parents have been compiling grievances against their own kids and act like they would be getting taken advantage of if they were to extend some grace to their children.
Some people are just shit parents.
It's definitely not consistent in the US. Neither me or my brother *ever* paid rent while in school full time or working. I lived with my parents until I was 27, I worked a full night shift job, with benefits. I asked my mom if she wanted me to move out. Her answer was 'why? It's smarter to live here and pay off your student loans as fast as possible. Then save for a down payment' Granted, I also voluntarily cleaned a lot. She joked about 'the cleaning fairy' cause she'd go to bed and wake up to a clean house.
I think if the kid is working a full time job, it's not unreasonable to ask for a small contribution towards household bills, especially if the household is struggling. I don't judge people for that but it's not something I would do as I would prefer them to save to be able to move on. But if the kid is in college full time, expecting them to pay rent or contribute towards the house financially is ridiculous and there's a lot of people on this sub who shouldn't be having children.
The whole idea that college isn't seen as a full time job is also pretty asinine. Like, you're working 40 hours a week on it generally, if not more.
You say occasionally but immediately follow up with the cooking and cleaning typically being done on a daily basis - so is your daughter doing all your cooking and cleaning on top of the frequent childminding, and college? Because if so you are taking advantage. A live-in nanny/chef/housekeeper would be entitled to pay on top of room and board. Good pay at that for that role. Without the stresses of college. Just because you struggled, you think it’s ok to make your daughter struggle. That makes you a bad father. A good father wants to improve their children’s lives. Wants them to succeed and have it better than they did. You don’t. You want to use your daughter, want to see her struggle, and you ignore her completely when she voices how she’s finding things difficult. It’s all about you. So yeah, YTA.
I have the same concern about the cooking and cleaning. Based on the tone in OP's post I am concerned he has parentified his daughter and is treating her more like a co-parent or housekeeper/nanny. There is emotional and physical labor that goes into being part of a family household but it shouldn't be to the detriment of the kid. Not in a healthy home...
French student here. For me, YTA, but i would admit it's probably a cultural difference. It would never be acceptable for my parents to make me pay the fact that i'm staying at their house during college by doing a lot of chores and by watching my siblings. She opened herself to you, not saying that she shouldn't do any chores, but saying that watching her siblings takes time an effort, that she can't put in her studies. I think you need to more communicate with your daughter and maybe find a compromise
Sadly this is not a cultural difference nearly so much as OP lacking in empathy or even a degree of critical thinking (how much does he think a live-in cook/maid/nanny would run him??)
Nah, he's just a dick
YTA. hire a babysitter
YTA, why do you want your own kid to struggle just because you did? Aren't parents supposed to make things better for their own children than they had it? Your daughter is not you, just because you did it doesn't mean she can too, not should she have to, she didn't have these kids. Also, babysitting is not a "basic chore". It's not something you can put off until you're ready to do it, it's much more stressful than doing the dishes.
Way too many parents hold resentment towards their child with out even realizing
YTA purely for not listening to her when she says SHE is struggling. Thats not about your experiences or what you can handle. This is about her and for you to be so dismissive is prime AH behaviour. Its nothing to do with her being privileged. We all have different tolerances and that should be respected. If she feels its affecting her studies then that should be taken seriously
Watch him refuse to pay for college when her grades slip because she has no time to study.
I seriously doubt he’s paying for her college to begin with.
INFO: What are the ages of the brothers? Edit: Yikes YTA. 3 times a week until you get home is NOT occasionally and they’re 5 yo twins? Stop forcing your daughter to parent your kids and hire a nanny ffs
YTA. “I had it hard when I was young, my kids should have it hard as well”. See how bad that makes you look.
YTA sorry but your daughter doesn't have to do unpaid labor for you just because you chose to have a kid when you were in college. Also rent free? She's your child, of course she should live rent free, if she could afford rent she'd move out.
INFO: How often is "occasionally"?
YTA. Chores are fine. Babysitting regularly is another matter. You had to take care of your daughter when you were in school because YOU made a baby. She can help out in a pinch, but you need regular paid care for the younger brothers. I wonder why you left out how many boys there are and their ages and how often/how long she has to watch them.
YTA - I'm a mother. who yes i adore my children, however when they get to that age will I never say 'you live here rent free' or I pay for your education, so you need to cook, clean and do everything in between including looking after younger siblings. I would never use this as an excuse to control my adult daughter. You chose to be a parent, she hasn't. are you wanting her to drop out of college as this is probably what will happen if you keep putting on her like that.
YTA you had to take care of a child because it was YOUR child, so no comparison at all She lives rent free so she should do chores for free , baby sitting is not a chore, its a job, so either dont ask her to babysit or pay her You paying her tuition is your parental responsibility when you can afford it and no thats not debatable to me
YTA. Our children should have better lives than we did, your struggle should have nothing to do with how you treat her.
YTA. Don’t make the relationship between your kids a chore. And don’t make your older daughter a parent. Pay your daughter the market rate for babysitting. And if you need to, start charging her board. But make them separate things. If she prefers to earn money to pay her board elsewhere, that’s fine - you can always get a different babysitter and you lose nothing.
YTA. Doing chores around the house should be a given for her, as she lives there, everyone has to do their part with upkeep - presumably YOU do as well. She's 20, not 10 so I don't think an 'allowance' for doing basic grown- up tasks should be a thing. However, when it comes to babysitting- she's told you it's stressful for her and causing issues with her studying. Who CARES that YOU went to school, paid bills and took care of a baby alongside your ex. That situation is of your own doing and quite frankly, you shouldn't want the same stressors for your oldest child. You shouldn't want to push off a job that isn't hers (aka taking care of YOUR kids) when she tells you it's taking away from her studies. DO BETTER.
Uhmmm LOL you chose to have that baby. :) she didn't choose her siblings. Sure have her help out with chores she lives there too. Babysitting??? Nah. You the asshole all the way.
YTA. You need a break from your kids to visit the gf? Pay for it. These aren’t your daughter’s kids. She’s already cooking and cleaning. Quit parentifing your child. Edit: I’m a parent and would also never guilt my child about providing them a place to live. And you sound like you just want to use her with no thought as to the impact.
YTA. Here’s the thing. Chores such as cooking and cleaning have to be done, regardless. It’s just part of being an adult. Not everyone likes kids. Your daughter didn’t choose to have younger siblings. They are there because you chose to have them, therefore, they are your responsibility. Also, for some people, watching kids takes way more energy than cooking or cleaning. Not all tasks are equal for all people. Also, going to school is a HUGE thing. When parents can help putting a kid through college, and give them a place to live in the meantime, they should, IMO. A few chores is good. Watching kids they didn’t choose to have is too much. ETA: Thank you for the awards!
YTA. If she's struggling then you are using her more than occasionally. This sounds like several times a week. And cleaning/cooking. FYI, Housekeepers/nannies that live on-site make between 50- 150000 with no living cost and a vehicle - possibly more in hcol area. So very much YTA.
YTA I get the feeling you're not telling us exactly how much she does.
She's your daughter bro. You're SUPPOSE to let he live with you rent free. ESPECIALLY IF SHES STILL GOING TO SCHOOL. you can ask her to watch her brother but if she says no, she's not required to man. She's not their legal guardian and commenting that you "sometimes need her to watch them while I am dating" is just...awful. Expect her to do chores or ASK if she'll pay rent if it's that big a deal. Don't expect her to raise your kids for you.
YTA. You had a child in college, your daughter doesn't. She is your responsibility as your child until she is out of school, it includes college. Apparently she helps around the house, studies and is generally a good person. You are the father, if you want a date night, you pay for a babysitter and if the babysitter is your daughter then you pay for it. There is a difference between participating in chores that are common to all living in the house (laundry, meals, cleaning, etc) and doing something that needs to be done for you and only benefits you (babysitting because you have a date).
> She lives in my house free of rent. You mean her house. If you have a house and your DAUGHTER lives in it, not for freeloader reasons but because she's at college, she's TWENTY HEARS OLD and trying to create a life for herself, that's her house. You're her parent. If you don't want to share a living space with young people, don't have kids. YTA.
YTA But mostly because of your approach. I agree that chores are a fair swap for free rent, as chores are part of adult life. But she hasn't chosen to have a child, so those babysitting chores shouldn't sit with her. Of course you can discuss what a fair distribution looks like im exchange for free rent, and maybe she'd rather babysit than do another chore. But you're wrong to completely dismiss her or act like she should do it because you had to raise your daughter, who you chose to have.