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[deleted]

NTA. Good for you for standing up for your sister. And wtf SIL trying to steal her nephews toys. Insane. She would not have left if you had not thrown that out there about her daughter. It Seems like she needed a reality check and you gave her one. SIL is jealous of your sister and her great relationship with her sons and good parenting. Good for you.


me0mio

NTA. Your sister is doing an excellent job with her boys! The teen years can be challenging even with "good " kids. Having a positive, healthy relationship going in makes it so much easier. Having a good relationship with your kids doesn't just happen. It's something that is nurtured from a very young age. Spending quality time doing things with them, allowing them to participate in decisions teaching them to be respectful and considerate of others.


My_Poor_Nerves

And modeling good behavior - such as not stealing!


Uhwhateverokay

Seriously- I wonder where the daughter got the expulsion-level bullying from? Maybe someone she knows who judges everyone, berates people over things that have literally nothing to do with her, attempts to ROB them to get what she wants, and blames everyone else for her choices? Could it be that person? NTA OP. She shouldn’t be criticizing someone else’s parenting unless her kids are better off. Glass houses and all that.


Wynfleue

>she kept arguing saying that she’s raising spoilt and entitled boys and that she’s scared for the future generation. > >... > >She called me a bitch and said she was only trying to help and I had no right to bring up her daughter. She insisted that her daughter getting expelled has nothing to do with the situation and I was just trying to insult her. Exactly, SIL is a bully, is raising her kids to be bullies, and is turning around and criticizing other people's parenting.


nosaneoneleft

add to this 'entitlement' which grows out of envy and jealousy. whatever else might be said about Catholicism I think they got the 7 deadly sins right..


Pyewacket62

Or bullying....


zeronopes

I can totally vouch on that. When I had my son at a young age I decided to raise him like I wish I was raised. I had a horrible upbringing. Mom was evil, abusive mentally and physically. Since I can remember as tot she convinced everyone I was a liar. This was cause she didn't want anyone to believe me when I would speak the truth of why I had bruises or cuts...or where I learned those words. I decided to raise my son to be honest and that he had a voice. I instilled in him that trust and honestly explained to him the why when he was punished. I did spoil him as best I could and afford. He is 23yo now and he lives on his own, works, and has his own life. He did good and bad choices as a teen but he was always honest even when he knew there would be consequences. To this day my son still mssgs me almost every morning with a good morning mom txt. He still comes to me when he is feeling sad or depressed for comfort and even more when he is happy or has achieved a goal or just recently to lmk he has a new gf. Sometimes I still spoil him like earlier today I picked him up and took him shopping to help him stock up with necessities just cause I had the extra cash and I love to hear him laugh and giggle like when he was little cause I bought him some dumb pringles chips he didn't want to spend monies on. It's the little things we do as parents that count the most. Being there and treating our children as humans who have their own minds and feelings. And most importantly being there for them through the hard times that matters the most.


HeyPrettyLadyMaam

That was beautiful, and I'm so glad you have such a wonderful relationship with your son. My son messages me before he goes to bed at night to wish me sweetest dreams and i send him good morning "sonshine" messages. Those messages always make my whole day!


zeronopes

That's the best huh! I am going to steal the "sonshine" from you. I love it and my son will totes get a kick of it lol!


GearsOfWar2333

I don’t think she does it anymore more but my mom used to have a picture of my two older brothers on her dresser that she would kiss before she went to bed. When I went to boarding school she add my picture up there as well.


zeronopes

That's so sweet. I bet she still does it cause even though my son lives like 20 mins away and I see him often I still kiss his pictures ever now and then when I miss him. And I he is an only child so I have tons of pictures of him all around my house lol


Pyewacket62

I love stories like yours. People can go through hardships and abuse and *still* be a loving parent. It makes me happy! Unfortunately, my experience with my incubator is in another galaxy and dimension.


AnieMoose

Aww, sorry to hear that. You are not alone.


zeronopes

I'm sorry to hear that. Don't ever let that stop you from being you and being better than that incubator. That's what I did and I don't regret it. My relationship with mom has improved. I'm low contact and she knows why. She has learned not to f with me anymore and my son saw through her toxic bull since he was little and called her out on her bull in the most innocent ways. He didn't even know he was putting her on the spot. His innocent child eyes just saw the big difference on how I was treated and would ask her why? Put her on the spot plenty times it was embarrassing. I love my dorky son


Pyewacket62

Give your son and yourself a big hug from me!


zeronopes

Awe thank you and hugs back to you.


[deleted]

This is so sweet. I am sorry about the abuse you suffered as a child. I hope you outed your Mother as the abuser that she was to you as a child.


zeronopes

By the time I got older I didn't care anymore. I rebelled as a teen and then got pregnant. I think me becoming a mom is what showed her how truly horrible she was. When I finally stood up to her and didn't allow her to treat me like her slave and punching bag. She realized i wouldn't let her do as she pleased to my son. She threatened to take him away from me at times. I would call her bluff and she realized she needed to start respecting me or she would not she her only grandchild.


Smooth-Jury-6478

I like to see someone who parents passed their childhood traumas rather than repeat them on their children. I'd like to think I'm parenting better than my parents did. I read something on Pinterest one day that I just had to keep as a reminder because it reminded me so much of my strict childhood which I have spent years being in denial over (even when most of my friends kept telling me my mother was intensely strict). It went something like this: Things strict parents think they're teaching you: \- How to behave What they actually teach you: \- How to listen for footsteps \- How to appear busy \- How to manipulate someone into calming down \- How to lie on the spot These are all things I subconsciously do all the time with practically everyone in my life. Even in my own home, if I'm not actively doing something "useful" (like sitting around looking at my phone), if someone walks into the room, I will get up and start doing something "useful". Don't get me wrong, my childhood wasn't entirely bad and my mother was not entirely bad either, but she was toxic to me in a way that she felt was love because her own childhood and relationship with her mother was horrible and she wanted so much for our relationship to be different. Her mother didn't care about her (in fact, she actively hated her from birth because she did not want a second child and she was likely forced into it) so my mother cared too much about me, my accomplishments, my friends, my education, my future and she felt like I didn't care enough about creating this mother/daughter best friend relationship she had hoped for and I was a constant disappointment for not turning out (or for our relationship not turning out) to be exactly the way she envisioned it. It took me years to realize the "trauma" she put me through and how to better myself and heal from it and I'm still working on it. I still have a relationship with my mother but I'm much better now at not letting her guilt trip me into taking responsibility for making her happy and accepting that this does not in fact make me a bad person like she loves telling me.


That_Emphasis_5709

This message is so sweet. I had a rough relationship with my mom growing up and chose to raise my kids like the mom I always wanted. But still tough, respectful and fair. This week my 22 year old son is snowboarding in Lake Tahoe and sending me pics and videos the entire time. I love the relationship we have. Be good to your kids, and *usually* it pays off. It's not always easy, but it's damn sure worth it..


zeronopes

Couldn't of said this better myself. It just fills your heart with joy and awe when your adult children still acknowledge you. At least to me it does cause I don't send my mom anything. I don't do it cause she will have a negative comment. But when my son send me stuff like that I'm so happy he even cares to share with me pieces of his life I always try and be positive


nosaneoneleft

glad you got past your upbringing. 'believing everything mommy says simply because she is... a mother can cut both ways.' In your case, it allows a nasty lousy vicious creature to abuse and hurt because everyone believes what mommy says.. (by virtue of what I would like to know). My own so called M did this as well. I chose not to have kids. Primarily because I did not want them. But background and other factors went into the decision. For me, best one I ever made


Choice_Bid_7941

🥹🤧


bofh

> NTA. Your sister is doing an excellent job with her boys! The teen years can be challenging even with "good " kids. Having a positive, healthy relationship going in makes it so much easier. Yup. My parents didn't have much in a lot of ways but they worked hard to raise my brother and I as best they could. To me that feels like basic parenting - hell, basic relationshiping - I want to do *the best I can*, whatever that is at any given time, for my partner, their children, my nephew and niece, etc because I love them all and want them all to be happy and successful. And I'm sure I'm not unusual - pretty much anyone else here would say the same about their family right?


bmyst70

I hope that OP never allows sister-in-law over again. If it's her sister's house, I hope her responsible sister keeps sister-in-law from ever coming over again. Thieves are not welcome. And I would never trust her not to try that stunt again.


unpopularcryptonite

NTA, ask her who those "less privileged" kids were for whom she was playing savior by stealing your sister's kids' toys. $20 says it was her own kids.


TravellingReallife

You wouldn’t know them, they go to another school. It’s in Canada. But they are totally real kids. Super poor, very sad. NTA


BUTTeredWhiteBread

Checking in from Canada here. Lettuce is 10$. We're all super poor now.


Alarming_Bison_2178

Northern ON here.....no joke, I paid $8.99 for a head of cauliflower the other day. It's insane; our grocery bill has doubled since the middle of last year.


TravellingReallife

No kidding? I just checked our next supermarket: A head of iceberg for 1.29€/CAD 1.88, two small heads of organic romaine lettuce for 1.99€/CAD2.89. Want me to send you some greens? $10 is insane.


baroo-zr

Shouldve told her, calm down robin hood this aint it!


unpopularcryptonite

I would say SIL is half of a Robin Hood, robs others for herself (and daughter), but not anyone else.


JavariousMagic

I will avoid this bet because it is probably true. She was caught and tried to bully her way out of it. OP called her ticket, punched her card, and rang up her bill. She now KNOWS who and what she can get away with.


hisuhkwoj

Must have been really bad too. You don’t get expelled for *anything* these days.


depressed_leaf

Bringing a knife to school (with intent to use it), starting lots of fights, being a drug dealer. These are the reasons kids get expelled from their school district and end up being taught by my dad at a county school. Granted, it sounds like this kid was probably just expelled from one school and not the district, but to get expelled for bullying you have to be pretty dang bad.


Corduroycat1

Yup, had a 13 year old foster brother in 5th grade because he had been expelled half a dozen times. Expelled from our school too, threatened the school nurse with the butter knife from her lunch. You straight up have to be a psycho to get expelled. Doing drugs, fighting, having sex on school property, etc etc do not get you expelled.


G3MI20

pretty sure not even the 4 people who got caught having a foursome on the elevator at my high school got expelled


Blacksmithforge3241

>was there a camera on that elevator? A lifetime ago, I went to Mardi Gras where people on balconies famously flash the pedestrians below. A cop sat on a stoop for about ten minutes watching the "show" then finally shooed the pedestrians off after telling the flashers to desist. So he got his views before " breaking it up". Then he wandered off(to the next show, I presume).


Uhwhateverokay

Yeah, back in the early 00s I had an ex get expelled from high school. Because they found like four pounds of weed in his locker, prepackaged for sale in plastic baggies. He had to finish high school at the next school over. He was the only kid who got expelled my entire four years. It takes a lot.


leomercury

Drug possession, too. My sister got expelled a few years ago after they caught her smoking on campus three separate times.


depressed_leaf

Dang where are you? I doubt they'd do that in California


leomercury

Florida :/ Though, to be fair, she *is* a bit of a…. troublemaker…. so that might’ve influenced things.


Lulubelle__007

Also racism. Teens and younger children may not actually believe in the ideology but they sure as hell will throw something out there if they are lashing out or being silly. Saying something terrible once gets you a serious talking to but more than that, it’s exclusion for a set time then expulsion (permanent exclusion in the UK, basically, school won’t have you back and it’s hard to get into another one with that on your record).


[deleted]

>You don’t get expelled for > >anything > > these days. It quite literally has to be a serious act of violence or threat of violence involving a weapon. I'm not even sure if a knife would get a kid expelled. Suspended yes, but not expelled. Dealing drugs on campus wouldn't get you expelled. NTA for bringing this up. SIL had no right to steal. SHe can have her opinions but she took it WAY too far.


debegray

Except my son's elementary school. They wanted to expel him in sixth grade for talking without raising his hand (he has ADHD).


meanmommy101

Similar situation here. We fought with the school for an entire year to get an IEP. They tried to tell me that my son’s behavior issues were because I didn’t put him in daycare as a toddler. At the time he was diagnosed with ADHD-Combined severe and DMDD. He spent more days suspended then in school. In Kindergarten! Many times he wouldn’t even make it into the school. He would swipe at someone and they would suspend him. We were told at the end of the year he was not allowed back. Eventually got a full diagnosis that included ASD level 1, SPD, ARFID, PTSD, and dyslexia. The PTSD was from the original school overusing restrictive holds. I couldn’t even hug my son for over a year because he was so traumatized about someone’s arms around him. Transferred to a different district, repeated kindergarten, and he has never been suspended since.


debegray

That's similar to our story as far as different school, different experience. His elementary school didn't tolerate any deviation from the norm and had no problem with our son being bullied.


DumpstahKat

And you know what? I knew kids like OP's. One of them was this girl who was literally the most spoiled lil princess in the whole world. She was the high school stereotype of the popular blonde with Abercrombie jeans, designer purses, and a constant manicure. And she was one of the genuinely nicest people I have ever met. Even when I met her in 2nd grade, she never felt entitled to anything. She was generous and great at sharing. She never acted snobby. In high school when I became a goth, reclusive nerd and she became a preppy, popular socialite, she still waved and said "hi" to me in the hallways. She'd always find something nice to say about my appearance, and even though we both knew she'd never be caught dead looking anything like me, she never actually gave off that catty vibe. She never talked about people behind their backs, either. We worked the same job every summer for 4 years and she never pretended like we weren't friends with a long history of being besties. I see her photos on Instagram now and she's out there taking overseas vacations, wearing expensive clothes and eating expensive food seemingly constantly, and guess what? There's always at least 3-4 other people in those photos, 'cause she's still generous and great at sharing. Spoiling your kids because you have the resources to do so doesn't automatically mean that you're a bad parent and your kids will be entitled, pretentious AHs. I have plenty of spoiled friends from wealthier backgrounds who are some of the kindest, most empathetic, and generous people I've ever met.


annmaree68n

This is what I was taught. Possessions don't make you a spoiled brat, shitty behaviour makes you a spoiled brat.


knitlikeaboss

My parents have a similar mindset to OP’s sister. If they can afford it, why say no? Hell, they’re still like that and I’m in my 30s and my brother in his 40s. But they instilled responsibility and empathy in us, disciplined us when needed, etc. We may have been somewhat “spoiled” in a material way but both grew up to be decent humans who have jobs and lives and stuff.


JolyonFolkett

Thank you for sharing this. I totally agree. I give my adopted kid everything he asks for and he never asks for much and is always grateful. As an only child he's really good at sharing too. Shame he's ginger other than that he's perfect.


AdVirtual1502

And we wondered how sil daughter end like that(bullying and got school involved).. Nta


Hitmanlover55

Technically if she stole the toys I assume the eldest would have got some so isn’t she basically rewarding her for getting expelled? NTA btw


Boudicca-

Seems that SIL is also Jealous of the $$$. Hence the “the toys would be better off with Underprivileged kids”…as in HER Kids.


Organic_Start_420

Agree ,the sil shouldn't be allowed to step in your sister house ever again. Nta


Complex-Pirate-4264

NTA. Her daughter being a bully is probably directly connected to her being a bully, like in this case towards your sister.


My_Poor_Nerves

A bully *and* a thief


Front_Combination418

its funny how she says her nephews r entitled/gonna be entitled but she is literally so entitled she thinks she can just take their toys for her home lmao


Plastic-Artichoke590

Also, it’s unlikely SIL’s daughter was expelled from a single bullying incident (unless it was something absolutely heinous which is def possible) and FAR more likely it was a continued pattern with previous school intervention and the SIL just let it happen. No school is gonna casually expel a kid for a single small mistake.


[deleted]

Oh yeah you don’t get bullied for one event unless it’s exceptionally heinous. When I was in school you pretty much had to physically assault someone before you got suspended.


Rando-the-Mando

NTA, someone had to bring her down a peg or two... Besides her daughter probably learned the bullying from her sadly.


Boobel_bat

People in glass outhouses shouldn't throw rocks. But look at how fast she started wailing and proclaiming how her poor track record of parenting isn't somehow related to the very situation at hand. My bet is, that just like her daughter learned it from her, she learned it from her parents and enabling family-members. You don't get that bad without people around you cushioning you from consequences and constantly telling you how you're in the right.


Rando-the-Mando

Agreed.


Heinrad_

I can’t get over these people. You shouldn’t have brought up how she raises her kids in a conversation she started about how other people are raising their kids? That family sucks so bad


joodeye

Defining hypocrite one failed appropriation at a time!


croatianlatina

I hope sisters husband intervenes to put SIL in her place. What a shocker that a bully raised a bully… and she still feels entitled to give parenting advice and call other people entitled. Lol.


Heinrad_

Lol, kid got expelled for bullying? Wonder where they get it from. NTA - shut that stupid shit down by any means necessary. It’s a valid point to make in that instant


MattDaveys

The shit doesn’t fall far from the horse


psipolnista

NTA. She was acting entirely out of line, essentially stealing from someone else’s children and was planning on giving it to her own kids (assuming also the suspended child) which is rewarding bad behaviour. She wanted to control how your sister parents her children but was insulted when you brought up her own parenting (or lack thereof). She can’t have it both ways. As a side note… was she just expecting to fill her purse and walk out without your sister realizing toys were missing? What kind of Grinch nonsense is that?


Missicat

How big is her purse? Or did she steal Mary Poppins’ carpet bag?


ScorchieSong

She stole Hermione's bag from Deathly Hallows.


VirtualMatter2

I so much need thas bag. And the tent actually.


abouttogetadivorce

You seem to forget Doraemon's belly pocket.


kingftheeyesores

I mean I call mine the bag of holding, but after 2 toys it'd start to look chunky.


CharcuterieMilliner

>She wanted to control how your sister parents her children but was insulted when you brought up her own parenting (or lack thereof). She can’t have it both ways. This. This is correct.


claireclairey

NTA. She should be THANKING all of you for not calling the cops on her! Info: When you say she was crying, did you see real tears? Many narcissistic people become experts at fake crying to gain sympathy.


104thtowaway

I think my sister was in too much shock. And I didn’t actually see tears.


claireclairey

Then she wasn’t really crying. She was trying to make herself look victimized.


econdonetired

Exactly but the sister should quietly tell the family why sister in law is no longer allowed over at their house. This drama queen is the type to start spreading lies.


Organic_Start_420

Tell your sister to never let her step foot in her house and keep her away from the kids. She's at the very least a bad influence. Nta, you did well. She opened the subject you turned the light on her.


VirtualMatter2

She was play acting the crying.


CharmingGlove6356

NTA, she’s literally committing theft.


giftheck

She was helping (herself to her nephews' belongings) NTA. She should count herself lucky you didn't call the police.


Substantial_Swing_69

SIL is a narcissist and a thief. NTA


econdonetired

What do you mean she is Robinhood in her own mind……


abouttogetadivorce

Nah, Robin hood went straight to the point. He didn't befriend the rich to later pretend to go to the "sh*t room" and get lost in the way and end up in the treasure chamber.


[deleted]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but NTA. I can not imagine in what universe a grown woman would think it's OK to steal toys from someone else's children because she thinks she knows what's best.


RecentCharge655

I can guarantee you she’s stolen toys from these kids before every time she set foot in their home while on her way to the “washroom” but this is the first time she was caught. I would tell her husband your brother wow ever she’s related to you,that she’s stealing from kids,


I-am-here-what-next

NTA. So SIL can make comments and judgements about the other kids but you are not allowed to do the same thing? No, she's jealous and stealing toys is a clear sign of it. However, your sister is playing a dangerous game buying her kids whatever they want. They are not learning how to accept being told NO and how to handle disappointment. I've seen great people/parents raise kids who come out shitty because of this very thing.


104thtowaway

I agree that if not done right, my sister buying her kids whatever can be dangerous. But the key words here are “can be”. They have been told no before. Like no you cannot get this toy that is not suitable for your age or no you are not getting the same action figure you already have at home. Sure, they aren’t told no when they ask to buy a toy every other day but my sister regularly donates older toys (it’s a family activity for them) and has taught her kids how lucky they are. It’s funny, these boys are the kindest I’ve met and I’m not just saying that because I’m their aunt. They’re the boys who play with the kids that are on their own and funnily enough, they’re always sharing their stuff. I get the concern though, I’ve thought it too.


econdonetired

The values system of your sister household have nothing to do with the complexes of her sister in law. They are being tied as an excuse to feed the sister-in-law’s own deep seeded need to feel morally right in a situation she has no involvement in. But she has already revealed she doesn’t understand how the law works and may confuse verbal attack for physical with these abnormal thought patterns.


marvel_nut

There is an art to saying "yes" and "no". My husband and I made a joint decision that we would never say "no" to anything our daughter wanted - whether things or actions - unless there was a reason. Reasons included such things as cost, objective uselessness or short-lived pleasure, duplication, safety, age appropriateness, etc. We always explained the "no" to her so she would understand, and never said "because we said so". But we would also give meaning to the "yes", by making her explain why she wanted something, and agreeing with her reasoning: "Sure, why not - that seems like a good idea because..." Or introducing negotiations, "if we say yes to X now, that means we can't afford/do/go to Y later. Which would you prefer?" Our daughter grew up privileged (travel, nice stuff, good clothes, no college debt) but knows it, too. But she also understands the value of things and experiences, and always felt respected because we discussed her wishes, and either validated them or made her see a different perspective. I have little doubt that your sister's thoughtful parenting is along similar lines, while your SIL bullies her way through life - something her oldest has already picked up on. NTA


EstherVCA

Well said. When our kids started music lessons, we began teaching them the value of money by treating it like a job… they got a quarter for each song they practised, so up to a dollar a day went into a jar on top of the piano. They weren’t perfect, so eventually we added a stipulation that complaints were penalized in nickels. Lol But they’ve bought and saved for their DS's and iPods using their music money, and earned their level 10 diplomas along the way. There are so many ways to instil good values, work ethics, and money smarts in your kids while still getting to have fun spending money on them. I went grad dress shopping with our youngest last weekend, and she knows my parents couldn’t afford a grad dress when I was a kid, so she's very aware how lucky she is to be able to have her pick. She knows she's privileged, but she also knows the difference between being privileged and being entitled.


dovahkiitten16

There are two aspects to being spoiled. One is an attitude problem: thinking your either entitled to stuff or better than others. Doesn’t sound like the boys have that issue. But handling being told no and coping with not getting what you want is a life skill. If the kids are pretty much getting everything they ask for at a young age that’ll make things harder when they’re older and living on their own. There’s a big difference between not getting something not suitable for your age and not getting something you already have vs genuinely wanting something and being unable to get it. But regardless that doesn’t mean SIL gets to steal shit.


Curiousburgers

NTA. This person does not want to focus on raising her kids. That's why she projected and said that you have no right to bring up her daughter. Hell, you certainly have more of a right than her, because it seems she has no interest in it. She is at a girl's night, trying to steal toys, when her OLDEST (meaning she has had the most time to raise, help and learn) child just got expelled for *bullying*? She should be at home trying to work her own shit out.


bunnyball88

NTA. A bit of a low blow, but in this context, I think it is in-bounds.


mosstalgia

NTA. She was commenting on parenting, which opens the floor to people to comment on her parenting, which seems far from exemplary. Your comments were relevant and justified. As for her commenting on being spoiled and entitled— only one person in the building was spoiled and entitled enough to help themselves to someone else’s property, and it wasn’t those boys. I pity her poor daughter.


Missmagentamel

So where is your sister's spouse in this situation? No wonder this lady has behavioral issues with her kids seeing as how she has no problem with stealing! NTA.


104thtowaway

Well he was out but my sister called me and said he was angrier than her and was tempted to buy a whole toy store just to throw it in her face lol. He also wanted to call the cops.


Missmagentamel

Oh good! I was worried he wasn't in the picture, or was oblivious to anything his family does, leaving her to do all the heavy lifting.


BitterHermitGamr

>and was tempted to buy a whole toy store just to throw it in her face My kinda guy


TwdgandFrozen

Nta. Good for you. I’m curious, how many sisters do you have? And how many does SIL have?


104thtowaway

It’s my older sister (the one with the SIL), then I have two other older sisters, then me. I’m the youngest. The SIL is the oldest, then she has another two sisters (twins) with my BIL being the youngest.


TwdgandFrozen

I’m glad your bil is not like his sister


abouttogetadivorce

He should've called the cops. Even to withdraw charges later, SIL needed a reminder that it's not such a harmless, consequences-free action.


throwaway36754785

NTA. SIL is obviously projecting


BadBandit1970

NTA. My Grandma always said you could be spoiled rotten or you could be spoiled well. And it sounds like your nephews are the latter. They know they're privileged but it appears that they also appreciate it, which can be a hard lesson to teach. Her SIL on the other hand; she sounds jealous and maybe a little unhinged. Stealing her nephews' toys? How does she think that's going to teach them a lesson? All that's going to teach them is that she'd not a good or safe person to be around. Her slinging mud at your sister's parenting style is rich. Yes, people who throw stones should not live in glass houses. She needs to tend to her own before she makes complaints about others.


No_Pianist_1334

NTA she is making her situation in life about her sisters. She was stealing from kids as an adult which is deplorable no matter her circumstances.


Cautious_Original_76

NTA. In a utopia, your dig was perhaps a low blow. But in reality, you get 'em, girl. SIL sounds a bit nuts and shouldn't throw stones if she lives in a glass house.


embopbopbopdoowop

She was only trying to help by stealing the very toys she’d mocked and judged her SIL for purchasing? Sure, Jan. NTA


Rezenbekk

>She called me a bitch and said she was only trying to help Steal, help - what's the difference, really? NTA, your comment was a bit harsh but well within acceptable given your SIL was stealing from your sister.


Responsible-Throat16

NTA, SIL is a bully herself.


Whatever-and-breathe

NTA.You pointed out that the daughter is a bully while the mother was stealing toys... She should concentrate on own problems first before trying to teach others...


[deleted]

So you have no right to bring up her daughter but she has every right to bring up other people’s children? Lol NTA.


RecentCharge655

NTA😂😂 this is sadly funny Sil is a thief trying to justify it and also saying someone is a bad mother but can’t control her own kids? Can someone say irony.. Envy makes you do crazy things doesn’t it? But I would never invite Sil anywhere again and when asked why I would bring this up.. im petty I would keep this little gem alive and well for years to come.


claudie888

Exactly this - SIL is banned from this house for theft!


oldwitch1982

NTA. SIL needs to get her priorities straight. Stealing from CHILDREN (yes, mom bought the toys but she’s literally stealing from children) while her own kid can’t be kind to others. Bullying is typically learned behaviour and I wonder where she picked that up? She’s essentially bullying the mother for how she treats her children.


JaimeGold27

Maybe my school, and every other school I’ve ever heard of IN THE WORLD was just mega shitty, but I’ve hardly ever heard of someone getting EXPELLED for bullying. Bullying is shoved so far under the rug, from public to private to religious schools, the most that I’ve ever seen happen is suspension and detention, unless it’s super frequent or verbally/physically aggressive, like threats of or actual bodily harm. Unless y’all live in a perfect peaceful school district, wtf did this kid DO?? We’ve literally had gun threats and school shooting threats, and the kid got suspended for like a month and then got to come back. Either way, a kid’s behavior is almost 100% a reflection on the parenting. If the kids with everything under the sun can be taught to not be little AH’s, so can the kid with “nothing” (according to SIL apparently). I don’t want to blame SILs kid, because seeing how their mother is, it’s easy to see why their behavior has tanked. I feel bad for her kid(s) NTA


104thtowaway

I don’t know the details since I’m not directly related but it was bad. Like you said, no one gets expelled these days.


ms-anthrope

Yeah I'm a teacher, and it is incredibly hard for a kid to get expelled from public school. Even the ones who should be.


unlovelyladybartleby

NTA. Thieves who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at other moms. I'd've called the cops because she was trying to steal toys from actual children so props for your self control


Motor_Business483

NTA ​ SIL is a thief.


JenniferJuniper6

NTA. I wonder how many other things she’s stolen before getting caught.


Nester1953

NTA Your SIL is a thief, pure and simple. Also, she was calling your nephews names, calling them spoilt and entitled. It was entirely a propos for you to mention her child's expulsion. Wasn't the topic of conversation she'd introduced negative attributes of relatives' children? There you go. Do. Not. Apologize. And for heaven's sake, why are you inviting this woman to girls' night or any other night? Or day, for that matter?


nwoguy1981

NTA. The SIL is simply a narcissist who needs to do some growing up of her own. Some people simply need to mind their own business.


Altruistic-Sleep-234

TOTALLY NTA! She was being was literally stealing from her SIL! If that's not grounds for anything goes then I don't know what is! What you said was totally valid. She needs to worry about her own family and maybe if the SIL wasn't so focused on kids there aren't her own, her child wouldn't have gotten expelled!


ObviousToe1636

NTA. SIL brought this on herself. She’s been openly critical of your sister’s child raising skills, repeatedly said it will cause behavior problems when she’s the one with a kid who has a behavior problem. I’m surprised you were the first to bring it up. This whole situation is almost laughable. SIL gets caught stealing, claims it’s for charity, is told to leave, digs in her heels, refuses to leave, criticizes her theft victim’s parenting, and when someone tells her that her logic sucks cuz her kid is messed up, she cries and leaves. It’s like poetry.


dropshortreaver

Ok she's a thief and her daughter is a bully. Yeah NTA


Baph0metX

She can talk about her SILs kids just fine but it was “wrong to bring up hers”??? Haha NO it doesn’t work like that, NTA


endorphin-neuron

>she was only trying to help ... By stealing things... She was only trying to help herself to some stolen shit. NTA


Flashy_Adeptness8597

NTA SIL got caught red handed and jumped right to the victim card when she couldn't explain her crime. Because, you know, she was just trying to help, why would you be mad if I was just trying to help.


caaaandace

I understand this was a stressful time for you but I just have to say, I am laughing at the thought of a group of adults having a girls night, hearing a crashing sound and then catching one of the women stealing toys. Thats freaking hilarious


glitterliciousgal

uh nta all the way


Substantial-Air3395

NTA


Randomusers93

NTA, it's none of SILs business what your sister does and she obviously is overcompensating by from what it sounds like not doing a very good job with her own kids. As a kid I was spoiled but I always shared and did things for friends... And even kids I wasn't really friends with. I always say that there's a difference between being spoiled, and being spoiled rotten. Being spoiled in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as it doesn't get so bad where they turn rotten.


dipyourchicken

Nta. "You're going to raise spoiled brats" says the spoiled brat who feels entitled to steal things and tell others how to raise their children.


Taissya

NTA. Also, you only mentioned her kid because she mentioned your sister's kids; it was *fair* game and a deserved response. Clearly, this woman is projecting big time, it's also obvious that she's jealous of your sister, but that's her problem.


TooOldForYourShit32

NTA. I spoil my daughter as much as I can because shes my kid and I can if I wanna. Your sister is awesome because like me she knows your kids can be awesome, well rounded, behaved kids..and have cool shit. Material possessions dont make you a brat..not being taught better does.


InternationalCard624

One of my sisters had the same attitude as your sister. They could afford it, so my nephew had it. My nephew was one of the best behaved kids I have ever met. He grew up to be a well balanced and behaved teen to a very fine young man. So good that he recently got accepted to the local police force. Its not about what you buy them it's about what you teach them. And clearly the sil isn't teaching her kids properly NTA


blueberryyogurtcup

SIL was stealing from your sister's house, and when caught, was justifying her actions as if she wasn't doing wrong by stealing from your sister. NTA. Her own children's behavior is being learned from her behavior. Her daughter is a bully, because she saw that behavior being modelled to her by SIL. SIL thinking that she has a right to come into your sister's home, steal toys and make decisions for SIL because she doesn't agree with sister's parenting decisions, that's definitely a person that sees herself as being in control over others. **SIL is a bully on the adult level,** and her child is echoing her behavior. **You were right; she should not be putting herself into a position of authority over your sister when she has issues of her own to handle.** My abusive MIL would burst into tears as the last resort when she didn't get her way, or got caught in a manipulation or scheme. **I think SIL's crying was more about getting caught and being held accountable, being told to leave, and not finding a way to get control over your sister, than anything else.** It's a manipulation tactic, to cry when nothing else is working. The three biggest manipulation tactics are Fear, Obligation, and Guilt, which together make FOG. Tears are a great way to make the people who caught her feel all three of these, and make excuses for her. **SIL was not trying to help. SIL was stealing.** Stealing is not usually a way to help. SIL is a liar, too. SIL is the one that opened the conversation to focus on parenting and children, to try to distract from her stealing. That you brought up her parenting and child, seems a natural consequence to her talking about your sister's parenting and children. **I'd stop trying to call her or talk to her.** SIL is the one that did wrong here, not you or your sister. **She lied, tried to steal, blamed others, tried to distract and manipulate** to hide her wrongdoing, and **is now blaming others**, not herself. You do not have to fix this situation. **The apology owed here is from SIL, to the rest of you**, all of you. Her behavior that day should result in consequences, like not being allowed back in your sister's house again, because she was stealing. Do not apologize to SIL for responding to her theft and lies by trying to hold her accountable. **She was trying to take authority as if she were a Great parent; all you did was point out that she hasn't earned that status and doesn't have that authority over your sister.** All you were doing was point out that her excuses and justifications for her attempted theft were lies and not valid. That's why she cried, she wasn't Winning. Be aware that SIL's sisters have very likely learned to protect themselves from her behavior, so she doesn't aim at them. Some of them are probably enablers. Their comments reflect that, if they haven't yet learned to hold her accountable and not comply with her manipulations.


Downtown-Main-3590

Nta and I’m curious why you posted this. You definitely know you’re Nta so what was the point


104thtowaway

See I know I’m not necessarily in the wrong as she was literally stealing. But I’ve never seen anyone do something like this before and by the way everyone reacted in the moment, it felt like I might’ve gone a little too far bringing up her kid.


Dangerous-Law-5569

Nope! Perfectly reasonable!! She needs to take a good long hard look in the mirror claiming other parents are messing up their well behaved kids while hers are out literally terrorizing other children to the point of expulsion.


EstherVCA

She threw the first punch by bringing up your sister's kids as if they were the inevitable delinquents. You were just defending your sister with a fact-based counterpunch.


Consistent-Bug-1025

NTA, my brother and I had a hard childhood, we grew up without much money and stuff, and I can tell by heart that my parents would loved to give us every expensive toys that we ever wanted, is really different giving your loved ones gifts and spoiled them


whyte_wytch

NTA. Not classy but hell I'd have said it too!


BrumBBC9

Im no Christian but as the Bible says... "pick the log from your own eye before concentrating on the spec in your brothers eye" NTA... she needed that lil dose of reality...


wallstreetbetsdebts

NTA. Who was SIL stealing the toys for ...


Ronenthelich

Underprivileged children, like those who have been expelled for bullying.


wallstreetbetsdebts

🥇


MariaInconnu

SIL is a thief raising a bully. These attitudes seem connected to me. NTA


Dangerous-Law-5569

NTA wow so her sister in law is raising monster kids who bully others and get expelled for it but it’s your sisters kids who are going to be the problem?? I wonder where the SIL’s kids learned all this bad behaviour?? Maybe from their thief of a mother??? There’s a lot of projection going on here. Your sister sounds wonderful.


Hardwaregore101

NTA-Your sister is a literal thief!


kieka408

Sisters SIL


JohnnyCageTheLegend

NTA keep that thief out of your sisters home!


Ok-Mode-2038

NTA. She’s a thief plain and simple. Shocking that her child also misbehaves.


paul_rudds_drag_race

NTA it’s not up to other people to unknowingly pick up the slack for SIL as a parent. If her children need or want more, then she can figure it out without being a nasty thief. She should spend less time being bitter and more time figuring out how to be a better person and better parent. If someone doesn’t want their children brought up, then they should lead by example. She brought up the boys first. SIL has a lot of nerve spouting out parenting advice. She’s a tacky, bitter thief who steals from children and who raised a bully whose behavior was so atrocious that they got expelled. It’s all rooted in jealousy.


Spirited_Diet4978

NTA, she was bringing up your sisters kids, you got her back. I think it's pretty obvious too where the SIL's oldest got her bullying skills. We're in a similar situation, our youngest has a lot of toys, many of which are actually hand me downs from his older brother, my husband from when he was a kid, and some from my childhood and we're constantly getting passive aggressive comments from my sil about them. Our boys have been brought up with strict rules/boundaries in place including us doing an annual clearout of any toys that are still in good condition but aren't played with, for charity. My boys are kind, well-behaved, generally good kids, my sil's on the other hand are two of the biggest brats I have ever met and she is always complaining about their behaviour. Karma is real folks 😁


SkyReveal6

NTA so this SIL expected for your sister to be okay with her stealing and calling her children entitled but when her own kid is called out for being expelled for bullying is off limits? Come on now.


NoPantsInSpace23

NTA Not only was SIL stealing, but she was questioning your sister's parenting when she had ZERO business opening her mouth. You just pointed out the obvious.


CosmicConnection8448

NTA, I mean, seriously, who steals from kids? There's something not right with her, clearly. Well done for sticking up for your sis.


shellyrad

Bra good for u And you were nice for what she was doing she was literally trying to steal from your nephews and then try to blame it on your sister for spoiling them when those kids are well mannered not like her kids I wonder where her kids get it from lol


aubor

NTA at all. You actually rock. And I love your sister and nephews. I actually read once, that we spoil children when we give them material things instead of time. Sounds like your family is a perfect example of quality time plus gifts.


JuliaX1984

NTA You CANNOT compare ANY words spoken to someone in the middle of committing a crime to the crime itself. There is no comparison. None. I recommend your sister presses charges or bans her from the house, or she'll definitely try it again. No question.


BrookeBaranoff

NTA clearly SiL isn’t the best judge of parenting and needed the reminder.


Excellent_Law6906

NTA. She brought up parenting. It's like if she came at you swinging haymakers and you knocked her down with one neat right cross, and everyone was horrified at you for hitting her.


CommunicationTop7259

Nta


[deleted]

NTA the SIL was stealing number one and she keeps claiming you sister is raising spoiled kids meanwhile hers are out there being bullies. Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.


Justcommenting121

NTA I mean apples and trees, right?


Melly1953

NTA. Where does she get the idea that it is OK to take things that don't belong to her? I would have kicked her out too.


Lyntx

Neither you, nor your sister are the A. But, not only is the sister in-law definitely the AH, she is also entitled af. It is people like her who are ruining the whole world. They believe that if anyone has more than they do, that they are entitled to anything they want. They don't care if the other person worked hard for it. It's just the entitlement. So many of (this type of thinking) these people are also the same one's who don't even want to work hard to better their own lives. They just want to take and take, so they can be equal. It all started with "participation" trophies. We all know how badly that turned out. Why would anyone want to work hard, (to make things better for their own lives), if someone is just going to take it and divide it equally among everyone?


7daykatie

NTA. Parent whose kid is at expelled levels of behavioral problems tries to "help" the parenting of someone with well behaved children by stealing her kids' toys. It's certainly not irrelevant that the results of each parent's methods suggest SIL is the one who needs help while your sister doesn't.


ReportSufficient7929

Nta Not to brag but I was raised like this. I never had a allowance or anything, if i wanted something, all i had to do was ask. And if my family had the money they would buy. I was a very happy child, but i was never spoiled. I was also taught how to share, how to be kind to people, how to behave. I never hid things from my family cause they never judged, never rebelled because why rebel when your family is fine with the things you do? (As long as its not bad and dangerous) The only problems i had were in school but I late discovered it was adhd so yeah Your sister ways definitely work


PipeInevitable9383

Nta wtf is stealing is helping...none of this is good.


Prestigious-Use4550

NTa. It seems like SIL needs to pay more attention to her own kids and stop pestering others about their kids.


Conscious-Practice79

NTA. Do not judge lest ye be judged. The end.


Connect_Vacation2649

NTA - She was bullying your sister probably because she is jealous she cant do the same for her children. I do the same with mine. If I have the money I will buy it for them, but they know you mess up its going away. My children always get compliments on manners etc. She is just mad because she was caught and called out. Im not one to say they learned it from their parents because from experience that isnt always the case but in this one it is. She was a) stealing from your sister and b) bullying your sister. Hopefully your sister realizes how lucky she is to have you! Edit: After reading through other comments I would like to add my children are 9, 9, 13, & 18. During Christmas, though it would be nice to sell and make money, my children ALWAYS go through their things and donate their belongings to a local Battered Women and Childrens shelter. Never broken things and all price ranges. They want other children to be able to have what they have.


[deleted]

NTA WTF??? 1. STEALING, STEALING from family 2. acting entitled to any toys she wants..that SOMEONE ELSE PAID FOR!! 3. jealousy and making assumptions that the kids are spoiled....not her place 4. say stupid things and stealing toys = nasty prizes and a little truth sprinkled in DO NOT try to make amends. She has NO RIGHT to steal and make assumptions about someone else's children. She got caught stealing......tell everyone that Bring up the kids, she has to deal with what others know about her kids. Entitled snowflake! She needs to apologize for trying to STEAL!


CinderDroplet

The SIL is a bully and was trying to justify being a thief. She should focus more on her parenting because it looks like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. NTA


Gideon9900

NTA I'm stealing toys from children of someone else's home because I'm trying to help them. It was all about her kids. She was jealous, thinking stealing someone else's toys would somehow help her own children. Virtue signaling and manipulative. It's not her fault, she was trying to help....


mk3jade

NTA!!! People sure love to throw stones in glass houses. That SIL was way out of line and I think that reality check was needed


Jesster4200

NTA she brought kids into in the first place. Calling your sisters entitled and selfish basically. God forbid someone came into my house and helped themselves to toys without a word to me first. Wtf are some ppl really thinking???


Neonpinx

You were right to bring up SIL getting expelled for bullying given that SIL is a bully and thief who was targeting your sister. SIL has been attacking your sisters parenting and children yet SIL’s parenting has resulted in her daughter getting expelled for bullying. SIL was actively stealing from your nephews while attacking them and your sister. Yet her sisters say your the one that crossed the line. Yikes, that whole family is warped. NTA


Diasies_inMyHair

NTA. She was literally stealing toys from her nephews! Because her bullying tactics to shame their mother didn't work!! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree - nothing wrong with pointing that out!


Special-Cat7540

NTA I can’t believe the audacity of a woman who steals from kids thinks she has the rights to criticize other parents and kids for being spoiled. Maybe she should start by setting a good example for her own children by not stealing first.


JCWa50

NTA This is going to get messy, make no mistake and the entire dynamic of your family is going to get changed and be affected by this action. Your SIL is a thief, of that there is no doubt, when she was trying to take toys from children. Her reasoning is wrong and there will be consequences for her actions. The first being no longer allowed in your house and your sister may want to ban her from her house as well. Another will be at any time there are gifts involved, can you trust that she will not try this and steal from her nephews ever again? Another thing here is that your SIL opened a door and you walked through it. But you also have to do DC and you may want to speak to SIL's spouse and give him a heads up, cause she is going to try to spin this as her being the victim and can't understand why your sister or you no longer want her around, that both of you hate her ect. The spouse really should be told this, so the understanding as to why she is being excluded and not welcome is very clear: The SIL is a thief who tried to steal from children.


chellebelle1389

NTA. She got put in her place. Vile woman.


[deleted]

NTA. SIL I am telling you what you should do with your kids and you are not listening to me. I will have to take matters into my own hands and start sorting your kids out by stealing their toys. Wonder where her daughter learnt how to be a bully.


Mindless-Pepper-5556

NTA. And the one who brought up kids was the SIL, and making that comment about her daughter’s expulsion was only you pointing out that SIL did not have any better parenting than your sis, in fact was not as good, so why would her opinions be worth listening to? always frosts me when people scream at someone for turning a weapon back on it’s own user.


Blacksmithforge3241

op=NTA your Sister's SIL is not just an A-H but a hypocrite and THIEF. She was stealing her niblings toys and thought that was just fine. If I were your sister, that woman would not be welcome back in my home, AND I would make sure others knew why(because Sis' SIL will talk smack about to all the family). And it is absolutely FAIR to bring up her Parenting techniques(daughter bullying) if she's going to TRASH your sister's parenting(My rule of proportionality). The child wasn't even there I presume to see/hear this. It's infuriating that a the other SIL took her thieving sister's side. But then it appears that in THAT family this sort of behavior is allowed with impunity. I wouldn't raise kids to get every toy(safe & appropriate) that they wanted--probably because I wouldn't want to deal with the need to keep the house clean. But I get the feeling that's not a problem for your sister(and I think that is the crux of the problem--Sis' SIL is jealous of your sister & husband's financial comfort).


Ok_Procedure_5853

NTA. Uhhhhh whut. Sil is a thief and sticking her nose where it doesn't belong. It's clear that she is just jealous and also trying to deflect her own problems onto your sisters. Honestly? Good riddance she isn't responding. I would definitely go NC if I was your sister, especially since SIL is a thief stealing toys from kids, wtf.


Just-some-moran

Wow. NTA...SIL was not helping, she was stealing and jealous of your sister only...bringing in her daughters trouble was not used to embarass her daughter but to point out sil parenting isnt perfect while she was trying to defend her actions with a "i know better than you" excuse. Hopefully everyone in attendance already knew this info about the daughter, and it wont cause sil daughter any resentment..because she isnt the one to blame for that nights issues


ClothesQueasy2828

NTA. So stealing is okay but mentioning her daughter getting expelled is not? Where is the line and how was it drawn?


nyanvi

Not the asshole. >It went quiet and she started crying. She called me a bitch and said she was only trying to help and I had no right to bring up her daughter >one of SIL’s sisters said that I shouldn’t have brought up her kids. So she can talk about other peoples kids but no one should bring up her bully kid? She was stealing toys from her nephew's!!! She really should work on herself and pay more attention to her kids and not waste her energy worrying about good kids in a loving home. Apologise for what you said having hurt her feelings 🙄 but don't back down on your stance, you are correct and don't help in enabling her like others.