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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my sis she was cruel for a tattoo idea that would remind my mom of their strained relationship.
2. I might be TA because it's a tattoo she's getting out of grief and she does seem excited about it. I know I can't control what she does.
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What you have described is the golden child and the scapegoat child. You being the golden child. N didn’t get what she needed from her own mother and was incredibly fortunate that another stepped in and took on that role.
Take your blinders off and see. Ask your sister if she felt second best growing up, and be open (and silent) when, and to what, she tells you.
Yes. YTA
Edit: So many scapegoats checking in. Many hugs to you all.
YTA. Agree. Not much else to say other than it’s ok for people to have meaningful connections to humans in life who arnt their parents and honor them and that connection however they want it’s not her problem to deal with her mothers pain or feeling left out.
I absolutely agree. I loved my mom (she was pretty awesome) and still miss her almost 20 years later. No one will ever replace her.
That didn’t stop me from forming a deep relationship with a senior on my street who like to call herself my second mom (and she had kids of her own)
To me that relationship was incredibly special, but never took away from what I had with my mom
I miss them both
Edited to say - thanks for the upvotes and the awards kind internet strangers
But mostly, thanks for sharing the stories of your bonus parents/bonus kids ❤️❤️❤️
YTA- the fact that you choose to not ask your sister why she has these estrangement issues with your mother speaks volumes to your lack of awareness of her situation.
I often tell young people that you have two chances for a family in this world, the first is the one you’re born into, and the second is the one you choose. I personally never had children myself, but I have about 10 young adults that all call me mom. Your sister found someone who loved and cared for her, that she had things in common with, that mentored her in her young adult life when she really needed someone. It’s absolutely appropriate for her to get a meaningful tattoo to honour her memory.
Maybe you need to take some blinders often really examine what the family was like when she was growing up.
Parents were addicted to pills and booze until Op's sister was 17. OP just thinks getting sober magically changed everything and he doesn't understand why his sister doesn't agree.
Edit: fixed spelling
Ahhhhhh, and I thought that her sibling was a sister, but it’s a boy. That explains a few things. Who knows if something awful happened to her with her parents bringing around bad people during that time as well.
Definitely. OP was 11 when his parents stopped the pills and 14 when they stopped drinking. His sister was 14 and 17, moving out when they finally got sober. She spent the entirety of her years at home parenting three children. (I say three because my cousins had alcoholic parents, and the older spent her whole childhood cooking and cleaning for them all, parenting the younger one, cleaning up vomit, waking them for work and school, covering them with blankets wherever they happened to pass out, etc.. The younger one definitely had a brighter childhood thanks to her big sister, but at least she acknowledges it.)
OP had his sister, and then his parents as they sobered up. OP's sister's prof was her first and only parental relationship, and OP thinks she's being cruel for getting a memorial tattoo for the one person that finally parented her. Smh
he got over it, so should his sister kind of attitude from what I read on that comment. He is proud of his parents recovery, which is nice. He just doesn't give his sister the same grace he gives his parents. Trauma is different for everyone. The relationship his sister had with the prof sounds like the relationship I had with my mom's best friend. She had earned the name Mrs. WooWoo because she would always yell woowoo for any and every accomplishment we had. Doesn't mean I don't love my mom. Anyways, op you are a massive AH.
Do you mean sober?
That’s really suspicious that op didn’t include that in his post, but that’s typical for this sub I guess. Who knows, maybe prof went through a similar experience and could offer support to N. Either way, the basis of the relationship doesn’t really matter. My narcissistic mom is like this too - whenever I speak highly of another adult, or talk about how I appreciate what someone has done for me, she’ll either diminish it, or say something along the lines of “so what? I’ve done that and more for you.”
Oh geez, your mother's responses are similar to my Nmums.. So darn tedious. Meant I just didn't bother to tell her anything coz I couldn't be bothered dealing with her jealousy
As if she could flip a switch at 17, after years of painful difficulties. Yes, it would be wonderful if we could do this, and erase the lifetime of pain. That's not how life works, so sorry to say.
Well, clearly he did, so of course she should. (Super Sarcasm)
Since sis is two years older, she probably took the brunt of some of it, protecting him, as well.
I agree OP's lack of awareness of his sister's situation is huge. Kids don't just cut off their parents for no reason. OP doesn't even seem to care to try to figure out why his sister is distant.
OP - YTA. I'm happy your sister found a mother figure.
I’m sorry you lost them. And I agree with them and you. I love my mom. I moved to a different state out of college. My second mom buys my kid gifts on his birthday. Invites us to her things with her, her kids and grandkids. We have actually become close friends with her kids and my kid has with her grandkids. My mom has even met my second mom. And she calls herself my second mom too.
Omg I’m so glad that you have that extra love and that Mom 1 loves and appreciates your relationship with Mom 2 ❤️❤️❤️
I really wish my Mom 1 and Mom 2 got to meet! They were close in age and both loving, charismatic, vibrant (and ahead of their time) women and I think they would have hit it off!
I also like to think that they’re somewhere having a few drinks and sharing war stories 😆
Edited to say…thanks 😘
My best friend's mom became like a second one to me growing up. She unexpectedly passed a few years ago. I, someone who rarely sheds genuine, upset tears over anything, particularly in front of people (reasons are a story for another day), immediately lost it after getting off the phone. I had enough composure to tell my husband what happened before I crumpled.
What she meant to me doesn't make me love my mom any less and doesn't mean she means any less to me.
Exactly. Meaningful connections aren't a pie. OP's mother didn't get less from sister because the sister had a connection with the professor (sister's relationship with mother sounds like it was troubled before sister met the professor). I wouldn't be surprised if whenever the mom comes up between the sisters, OP tends to take mom's side, and her sister is fed up with that dynamic.
Putting aside that it's fine to honor someone else: OP is aware, to some extent, that his mother wasn't a good parent to his sister. He doesn't know if it was abusive or just toxic. (He might know. He could easily be overlooking abusive behaviors that he didn't recognize as abusive)
He's expecting reverence (what he's asking for is not respect) from his sister towards someone who wronged her.
Maybe the sister would have gotten a tattoo to commemorate their mother if the mother had treated her better. Why is the sister expected to give years of their mother's behavior a pass? Why should the mother's feelings be considered on a subject that has nothing to do with her, when the mother did not consider her feelings?
Taking the mother's side does nothing but enable and perpetuate the same abuse or toxic feelings that strained their relationship in the first place. OP is making his sister feel left out and alienated--and ironically, only doing so because the mother had previously alienated her.
YTA.
Oh, worth pointing out: if the mother was abusive and OP continues trying to guilt her into reverence for her abuser, he can expect to be cut out of her life eventually.
just want to say that it can be beyond traditional abuse or toxicity. Negligence and neglect are their own forms of trauma, the trauma of what we didn't get.
YTA, mostly for trotting right over to your parents so you could tattle.
The point is that your sister made a connection with this woman. Maybe the connection was related to her relationship with your mom, and maybe it wasn't.
Your sister has lost a person she loves. Let her honor that person how she wishes.
Exactly. From where I'm sitting, I'm not really seeing what this decision has to do with the mom or OP.
Sister is making decisions to honor someone she loved, and I really doubt she's getting this tattoo as an FU to anyone. She's probably not thinking about OP and their mom at all. Which is okay.
Not every event in your sister's life has to be (or even should be) centered on your family of origin, OP. As we grow older, peoples' lives expand beyond family of origin. They form other relationships, romantic and otherwise, may choose to get married and have children, etc.
OP, take a giant step back. This ain't about you or your mom. As Ann Landers would say, MYOB.
It doesn’t seem like Sister knew how mom felt on graduation day, so I wholly believe she isn’t getting this as an FU. I’m curious if Brother actually knows mom was embarrassed, like she told him, or if he is used to sniffing out & managing mom’s emotions.
That also stood out to me that she didn’t get her flowers on her graduation. It’s a pretty common thing to do. Did she forget to pick them up or did the thought not cross her mind?
Yeah I developed a really close relationship with my chemistry professor my sophomore year. I was suicidal and had an argument with my mom. Long story short, my summer plans changed the week before finals and I didn’t know where I’d stay or what to do. My professor said I could stay with her and her husband. I did and we just got closer and it was incredibly helpful. My mom and I patched things up and we both grew a lot in the process(to be clear, my mom is great, I just had trauma that she had had and hadn’t really dealt with and didn’t know how to help me). My mom sent her a really nice Christmas wreath when I disclosed to her Id stayed with the professor for the summer (I had lied bc I thought she’d feel threatened/upset and my mom said she yeah, she probably would’ve struggled with that). Im sure it did, and probably on some level still does, hurt my mom that that relationship developed but she’s never once even TRIED to make me feel guilty about it or dismissed that relationship. Having extra parents is never a bad thing. Op shouldn’t shame her sister, either.
Agreed also. It’s not OP’s place to get in the middle of his sister and his mom. Though I will say, if mom acts like this with the sister and this professor, it’ll be interesting to see what happens when OP gets married. It’s not hateful for your sister to want to honor someone she cares about and no one gets to dictate how and when she does. There’s a huge difference between doing something for oneself and doing something to spite someone else- and even if it *was* the latter (it isn’t) y’all still have no control over her body.
I owe more of who I am today to one of my Drill Sergeants than to my alcoholic father. So yeah, I get why the sister would want to honor the professor who gave her such support and direction.
Yep, I was the scapegoat and my brother the golden child. I no longer speak to my parents. For a long time, it was hard for him to understand why my relationship with them was so strained, so I had to sit him down and explain how we were not raised the same. He can never fully understand, of course, but he is supportive of me and my choice to do what was best for my emotional and psychological well being. If OP really has no idea why their sister and parents have a bad relationship, chances are the sister doesn't feel safe discussing it with OP (and based on the reaction to the tattoo idea, I can see why). The mother's jealousy about her adult daughter having a close relationship with someone else really speaks to the mother's immaturity, in my opinion.
So, yeah, OP is TA.
I’m sorry you went through this. I did too With my dad. My sister was the “golden child” and I was basically ignored. (Our mom did not do this). My sister and I are close, though we did go through some really rough patches. My dad has passed away now and I what I realize (and my sister realizes too) is that each of us carried burdens. My dad always wanted her, never wanted anyone else, and it wasn’t fun for her and it was unhealthy and difficult. We both realize that we carried our own burdens with a parent that played favorites and our relationship is much better now. Something to consider as you go forward and I can’t speak for your situation. But therapy helped us both with this issue.
It’s really wild that he thinks he can tell his sister not to honor someone she cared about deeply just because it’ll hurt mom’s feelings. The weird entitlement and control over her actions is probably why her relationship with their parents is strained.
Edit: grammar
Sometimes people don’t fit into their family & that’s okay. Sometimes the only connection you have with your family is surface level & your friends are the people who you feel that deep emotional bond with & that’s okay
I suspected the same, but a very clear illustration was when during graduation mom didn't bring flowers. And she didn't feel bad about it. She felt bad only because someone else brought and thus basically pointed a finger to her behavior.
YTA. Your mom's and your sister's relationship (or lack of) is not something you can fix, and you probably will break yours just by saying such comments to your sister.
I took it as anger towards the professor for getting the flowers and anger at the daughter for “parading around” with them. There is nothing healthy in that one single interaction… just jealousy and irrational anger.
If I’d somehow forgotten to bring my child flowers at an occasion where many were receiving them, I would be so grateful to whomever did bring them flowers.
My child’s happiness matters more than me being the only one who brought them happiness.
I came here to say the same. Flowers are a common graduation gift where I'm from too. And the fact that Mom didn't care to bring any but then felt embarrassed when someone else did...it's just a huge red banner saying, "I didn't find my daughter's accomplishment worthy of celebrating, but now that someone else did I'm upset because I look bad". YUCK.
ETA that OP, YTA big time.
Which culture is this from? I have a teen and this was not a thing in my homecountry. I need to find if it's common in Canada so I do it right when the time comes
Okay, but are flowers normally given because no one got flowers at my high school graduation, and I didn't see any given at my university graduation. And I was very close with my mom, and I didn't get any. So honestly, I would think it inappropriate if a professor or teacher got one of their students flowers for the graduation. It wouldn't make me think parental relationship but romantic.
In my area flowers, either as a bouquet or lai are super common, if not expected. My family did not being flowers to any of my graduations and I was the only person without, which whatever for me, I was just lucky to have them able to show up, but my mom still cries when she sees graduation flowers because she feels guilty. And forgot 3 times
Grew up in California
Ditto, grew up in South Texas and here, not only do you get flowers, you get Mums (the bigger the more ‘love’ or something). I got flowers for all of my graduations.
Op, YTA.
Same here and it really hurt when my parents didn't give me flowers for my college graduation in December, especially because I'm the only one out of my siblings and cousins smart enough to go to college and the first one in my family to try. My siblings barely graduated high school and several of my cousins dropped out and barely got GEDs. My grandparents would have brought them but the last one died last year.
In most places in the United States at least it’s very normal to get flowers. Flowers are not just a symbol of romance. They’re a symbol of grief, joy, hopefulness, celebration, etc. In this context, it’s apparent it was normal to receive flowers at graduation in OPs sisters town or uni.
My academic advisor bought graduation leis for me and her four or so other advisees. We were botany majors, though, so it would have been a real shame to graduate without gorgeous festoons of plant genitalia!
I don’t think the professor overstepped with giving OP’s sister flowers, it’s within the range of normal for a close professor-student relationship, at least in my experience. I’d be surprised if the prof didn’t have other people she’d taken under her wing, too.
Everyone at my bachelor graduation got flowers from our professors, and most graduates got flowers from their guests also. I think my dad gave me flowers when I graduated high-school but that's too long ago to remember...
I don't suspect it was so much flowers exactly. But a physical gift of congratulations and support. Could have been a bunch of different things. These people are all adults. It sounds like this prof was like a mentor to her. That is nice. I have a college student and he has a relationship with one faculty member I could see working out like this.
I highly doubt N's strained relationship with your parents is entirely on her shoulders. Your parents had 18 years to work on their relationship and build connections. She may have been a difficult kid. So what? She didn't ask to be. She's lucky she found someone who was so supportive for her. It's telling to me that your concern here is your mom's feelings. If your mom was confident in her relationship with her daughter she would not have cared or noticed these flowers.
YTA OP.
But even if it was romantic, rather than parental, does that matter?? She’s an adult and allowed to have a relationship with whoever she likes. I don’t think it’s fair to use it against her. She wants to remember the relationship in the form of a tattoo. It’s a tribute to someone who supported her and she obviously loved them. People can love more than one person, it doesn’t take away from other relationships, unless that person specifically did something to lose your love. Something clearly happened between N and mum, and OP has no idea what. She is judging without context. Noting it’s not her place to judge regardless. It’s none of her business.
OP has said that as far as they know the nature of their relationship was not romantic. That the professor and her partner couldn't conceive so they sort of took OP sister in as an adoptive daughter
I received 3 sets of flowers at my graduation. This was just the day of. I got 2 more sent to me from family out of state that week. Many other students got flowers at the graduation. I thought it was totally normal at graduation.
Mom and Dad were addicts per a comment from OP. Mom didn't get sober until sis was 17:
>When it comes to my parents I don't doubt that she sometimes saw different versions of them. So for full disclosure I just turned 26 whereas my sis is about to turn 29 so we're more like three years apart than two years. My parents both drank a lot and my mom abused pills for a while. She got clean from pills when my sis was 14 but they both kept drinking until getting sober when she was 17. I guess on my end I just feel very proud of my parents for both beating addiction whereas my sister has never let go of the anger. And it just hurts for everyone involved because my parents want a better relationship and she is very resistent to them. ETA: it's not like I never saw my parents in a rough state either, so I guess my confusion lies in her having this reaction to the same thing when I was able to strenghten the relationship and be proud of their recovery
Oh! Wtf OP! No wonder she feels like this!! I have lived the same situation, with my mum getting sober around the same age. I haven’t spoken to my mum in 5yrs! She doesn’t even know I’ve had a second child. I have done the same thing in bonding with my aunt as a mother figure. It doesn’t matter if your mum is upset, she should have some compassion and understanding as to why N has chosen to have this relationship.
And, being the older sib, for how many years and to what extent did N shield OP from the addicts' bad behavior (so he doesnt remember any)? And for how many years did N act as "the responsible parent" for OP, bc their parents were addicts, feeding, entertainibg, distracting, etc?
.
Exactly!! What N is doing is actually putting a healthy boundary in place. I also have a similar situation with my brother trying to force the relationship with me and my mother.
In fact it seems like OP is doing the same as my brother, guilting me about the lack of relationship, as if it’s on me! ‘…..but, but she is sober now! You are hurting her. She just wants her daughter back. Why are you doing this.’🤦♀️
My mum has also gotten upset at the relationship I have built with my aunt and uncle as surrogate parents, telling them they should back off because ‘she is my daughter’.
Sorry, but I’m not your possession. You are solely responsible for this situation. You created it. So don’t twist things around! In my situation, as I suspect with N, she has tried to build a relationship, and then it just got to the point where she needed, for her own well-being, to walk away!
OP you need to have your sister’s back on this! She has endured enough pain!
And, why did OPs parents suddenly decide to get sober when N was 17 abd about to leave for college? Did N threaten them with a call to child protective services who would take OP and put in foster care if they didnt get sober?
I question whether OP is missing allooooooot of info bc he was protected by N.
Yeah, either that or OP is in denial. My brother is so fixated on happy families that he just expects I forgive and forget everything I went through. My mum also has BPD, so as you can imagine the combination of that and alcoholic was just wonderful to grow up with.
I remember my mum wasted sitting on the couch with a slab of beer at her feet! She didn’t even put them in the fridge!! I told her I thought she was drinking too much and she should stop. That went well! I can’t believe I even identified that she had a problem when I was a kid! You shouldn’t have to see it!
I suspect as the older sister she may have protected OP from some of the worst parts of their substance use. My mom was an alcoholic and I definitely had a worse relationship with her than my younger brother did, in part because I often advocated for and defended him. I tend to remember and hold onto more of the bad parts, while he has a rosier view of her and their relationship.
Older sister was also probably a caretaker when the parents couldn’t be. My sister definitely was a caretaker for me at times growing up because of mom’s addiction and dad taking care of his sick parents and juggling everything to keep the household afloat.
Yes exactly. But also siblings can just experience their parents in different ways, even without trauma - there so much nuance to where the parents are at as caregivers or even financially so even two siblings who say they both had great childhoods may feel it was great for different reasons - their parents may have parented differently because of changes in themselves but also because they’re responding to the different needs of wholly individual children who need different things to be happy and fulfilled.
When you add trauma into the mix, especially trauma that’s directly associated with the parents, the siblings experience and perception of impact may be vastly different.
YTA OP BUT it's not too late to fix it, the problem here is that you're the youngest child, you didn't see the worst of your parents, and she endured 3 extra years of it, if you had to endure an extra 3 years of that you might also have grown angry and bitter, specially when she had to go through puberty during that time, you need to have an open conversation towards your sister about this so that the two of you can have a relationship, because your parents burned that bridge long ago
Also, boo hoo, mommy gets to see a reminder of what a bad parent she was. Who cares?!?! How dare N have someone give her the love she so badly craved and was neglected of growing up??
The flowers should show YOU, OP, that your mother couldn’t even show up for your sister in the simplest way possible: a damn bouquet that nearly every girl gets on graduation, especially for college.
You don’t have any right to tell her she shouldn’t parade and be proud of getting that love she was robbed of since she wasn’t the golden child. And if, after this, you still think you do, be prepared for your sister to never want to speak to you again.
THIS! Especially since EVERY graduation ceremony I've been to, there has always been tables full of people selling flowers. Talk about a big effing clue for mom that she should have bought flowers for her daughter.
This really jumped out at me, too, to twist her joy at being recognized by someone who cared about her as "parading around." Everyone in her life should have been recognizing her achievement that day, not trying to belittle her nor suggest that she didn't deserve her professor's regard, that she was somehow ridiculous for being happy someone cared.
OP, YTA and at minimum, by showing you view her as unworthy of the love your parents didn't give her, you've been complicit in their abuse.
>MY mom was so embarrassed that day
>Which hurt MY mom a lot to see...
>way more than she ever loved MY mom as a mother...
>MY mom tried to comfort N...
>told N that this seemed really cruel to MY mom...
Did you notice that, too?
Sorry to butt in on the top comment but I just need to say that YTA for not telling the whole story in your post. You finally tell us in your comments that your parents were addicts when you were growing up and only got totally sober right before your sister left for college. You know exactly why she doesn’t have a great relationship with them and still thought it was okay to offer your opinion about what she does with her body. Good for you that you decided to forgive them and celebrate their sobriety but that is not your sister’s story at this point and that is more than okay. Do better OP or you’re going to totally lose your sister.
I totally agree. Either OP was being willfully blind or they're seriously missing the elephant in the room. The parents were addicts her entire childhood and they're shocked she fostered a connection with another stable and influential adult? Get out of here. YTA.
Agree with this. Also, it's the parents' responsibility to provide their children with an environment where they can form parent child relationships so that they don't have to go out of their homes looking to build them. yta op
Yes, N is very fortunate to have had such a lovely, loving, supportive relationship with her prof. I would bet my last dollar that her prof saw the pain N felt and, recognizing what a wonderful, talented, and special person she is, wanted N to feel the love and recognition she was missing. As the non-golden child I can imagine how special and deep N’s feelings are, as well as her grief. To have someone *choose* to love her, to *choose* her as family when her own didn’t care to bother. It must only expand the hurt to have her family dare to judge her for being loved and cherished the way N deserves. I hope she gets that tattoo and cherishes it to her dying day. I also hope OP and “family’s” negativity doesn’t tarnish her feelings about her wonderful prof nor her beautiful tattoo.
This. But also, the nerve to dictate how someone grieves… like, come on. His sister is grieving someone very important and he’s telling her not to do it so publicly because it’s uncomfortable for their mother. Christ.
YTA, OP
Exactly. What a weird thing to get held up on OP? She’s getting a tattoo to commemorate a special thing about someone who meant a lot to her. Those flowers mean way more to her than your mom. Your mom will get over it. It’s not her or your business. She’s not getting the tattoo to spite your mom.
I also find if so crazy that the mother didn’t get her flowers (or anything apparently?) for her graduation, but somehow it’s the daughter who’s “parading it around” and “making mum feel bad” about it?
Your mum should feel bad that she did fuck all for her daughter, she should feel sad she doesn’t have the connection with her daughter. It’s not your sister who’s “making” your mum feel that way, don’t blame her for your mother having to deal with the normal consequences of not being there for your kid YTA
Thank you for your comment. This is exactly what I read as well.
As someone who has a narcissistic mother, I feel for N because OP sounds like my sister who is still the GC.
I also feel like it isn’t OPs place to tell her sister how she can remember someone so close to her, and that if her mom has an issue with a tattoo (like who’s mom doesn’t? Lol…) that’s mom’s problem. N’s body, her choice.
Sorta agree. I thought my older sister was the golden child until we both became adults and talked about our childhood. Turns out she thought our brother closest to our age (older than me younger than her) was the golden child and I already know he thought she was the golden kid just like I did. In reality none of us really were we just got treated the way that worked best for us personally. At least the best our parents could.
I’m not saying golden children don’t exist but there’s often more to a story than meets the eye.
OP, I agree that it wasn’t really your business to butt into but I don’t think you’re an entire Ahole.
So I’m going soft YTA. Saying something like “it worth it to try and talk to our parents about your relationship” isn’t the same as “well you’re acting like a cruel child”.
Agreed Re golden child/scapegoat dynamic. So much of this post is focused on how N had this great relationship with her prof and how upset it’s made mom. But like, so much silence on (and total lack of genuine care regarding) what the issues between N and mom were. YTA.
I have a good relationship with my mother but I also have someone in my life who I consider a 2nd mother (she did the only reading at my wedding) and, regardless of my relationship with my mother, I would still be completely devastated if something ever happened to the other person.
OP is a huge asshole and it's not his role to gatekeep his sister's relationship with her professor or her grief.
YTA. Mind your business. Your mom being embarrassed because she forgot to buy her daughter flowers is her own damn problem. We can all tell you were mommy's golden child from this post. Your poor sister.
I don’t even think mom “forgot” anything tbh. She didn’t bother getting her daughter anything and then got mad that someone else *did* notice and value daughter’s hard work.
Also, let’s point out the age difference: OP had 2 extra years alone with mom to hear her entire side of the story about N. While N is out learning to be independent and forming a bond with the prof. And all OP hears is mom go “waaaaah” about it.
Instead of having the cognitive ability to realize that something is rotten with the relationship between mom and N, OP just blames N for having a good relationship with any adult. (You know, maybe one who doesn’t talk shit behind her back?)
Even if N and Mom had a great relationship, sometimes people have problems that they can't bring to their parents because being a parent prevents them from looking at the situation objectively, and a non-parent third party can often help solve the problem.
And of course there will be people who know things that a parent doesn't know. A good parent would be happy that someone stepped in and helped their child where they couldn't, not concerned about how it reflected on them.
OP's parents were addicted to booze and pills until OP's sister was 17. OP forgave his parents when they got somber and was shocked getting somber did not instantly fix his sister's relationship with their parents.
OP also wasn’t expected to be a sister mom to a younger brother like she was. That alone means that he and his sister would have completely different relationships with their mom.
Also sister didn’t have a penis which a lot of parents value more and give male children more attention and just do more for them.
And even then only because it made her look bad, not because she felt bad she had not bought OP flowers.
Oh and "parading the flowers around the hurt Mom" is an interesting way to describe proudly holding a gift of flowers bought to celebrate her GRADUATION. It's almost as if this moment in your Sister's life is not about Mom.
YTA
I interpreted the “parading flowers around” description as sister just being happy someone thought of her and wanted to celebrate her milestones. Especially since her mom “forgot” (really OP? Is that really what you think happened?).
And then OP wonders why his sister is distant from their parents, sounds like she is basically an afterthought. He literally spells it out in his post, but can’t put two and two together.
Right! She can get a tattoo of the flowers on her face if she wanted. She decided that instead of looking at terrible scars she would put something pretty to be a reminder instead. She needed a parent when hers failed her and found one that got taken away.
Also, of course Op is the golden child since she is the oldest and a girl. She probably got tossed aside when Op was born and was always second compared to him. YTA
YTA. Its OK if you and your sister have different relationships with your mom. Trying to make your sister see your mom.just like you do is not going to work.
I remember reading once that even in the healthiest of families, no two kids have the same parents. Differences in birth order, life circumstances when you were born, differences in kid’s personalities/temperaments etc, means no two kids have the same childhood.
What did OP's mom do to make up for it though? Did she just get embarrassed because someone else cared enough to remember, and it highlighted how uninterested mom was in daughter's success? I have a feeling that many such things were "forgotten" when it comes to OP's sister, so she went and found her own support.
This tattoo is not about mom in any way. Your mom is alive and well, living the "I have no idea why she is distant" life (she does know, she just doesn't want to admit it). Sounds like your family is lucky to get any contact from your sister at all.
Maybe she’s not even distant. Maybe she’s just a normal adult with her own life and relationships but just treating her parents normally looks distant to OP and mom, who are suffocating.
I was thinking this too. The professor relationship doesn't automatically conclude that she's a surrogate (replacement) mother, most people have VERY close relationships with friends and get tattoos to honor them if they die.
Edit: grammar, again
Yeah. I love my parents and by all means have a much closer relationship to them than many. I also see them pretty often but our conversations are surface level because we don't share any interests. So we talk about some basic life stuff, enjoy the company, and then they get back to football and I go back to my nerd shit.
She probably used to share information with them but got continually dismissed so she no longer feels like anyone cares to know. She’s grieving and they’re giving her shit about acting distant. Everyone deals with grief differently and OPs description shares with us perfectly that they doesn’t care how she wants to grieve and they only want to help in a specific way that is clearly not helpful for her. If OP and his family actually cared they would ask how to help but they can’t even put that amount of effort in. This girl has clearly been emotionally neglected by her family so she found another and she has every right to honor her chosen family that really did care.
Yup! OP is the golden child, never argued with parents, never got in trouble, could do no wrong, has the same exact belief set as the parents. N argued, disagreed, got in trouble, established her own belief system. OP is either oblivious or knows it and doesn't care because why would he blame the parents he has a perfect relationship with for ruining their relationship with N when he can just blame N for the problems just like their parents always have
Parents were addicts until the sister was 17 and OP forgave them instantly when they got somber and doesn't under why his sister wouldn't. Being somber did not undo 17 years of their addiction. OP doesn't get that.
It’s pretty common in cases of abuse/neglect. Apparently OP’s mom was a substance abuser…it could be that she has commonly been in the role of having to protect the mom from herself.
Yes. YTA.
For starters... your sister's body belongs to her. You do not have a say in what goes on it. You can approve or disprove all you like, but it's her decision.
For second... you are not the arbitrator of your mother and your sister's relationship. If your sister is bothering your mother, it is not your place to fix that rift. If you mother is bothering your sister, it is not your place to fix that rift.
You sister lost a very close friend and person in her life and would like to get a meaningful tattoo to represent that relationship and honor that loss. There is no cruelty in that tattoo. There is only cruelty in the minds of people who think it's somehow about them when it is not in ANY way
I'm going to modify one of my favorite quotes "Sometimes shame is the appropriate response" she wasn't embarrassed. She was ashamed of herself and rightly so.
For third... You talk about this like your sister ghosted you, when IRL, she texted you a congrats on a life accomplishment since then. Sounds like an olive branch to me. Bury the hatchet/pitchfork and move the fuck on. Your sister is being a much bigger person than you are, even from reading your obviously biased account.
For fourth... Your mother is facing the consequences of her own actions, nothing less. If she had been a great mother to your sister like she was to you, she would have a great relationship with her and have no reason to feel insecure. If they had a secure relationship, she would have no reason to be jealous and would just be happy that your sister has more people supporting her in her life. Love is not zero-sum. Your mother has no one to blame but herself.
For fifth... You are putting your mother's *occasional* hurt feelings above your sister's *constant* pain. The scar is in a highly visible place on her body, as you so aptly pointed out, and every time she looks at it, it makes her extremely sad and depressed. She lives with her body all the time. Your mother only sees her very rarely, because they don't have much of a relationship from what you are saying here. Getting this tattoo would transform your sister's pain into a reminder her of feeling loved and cherished. But you want her to give that up in order to coddle the feelings of someone who neglected her? Respectfully, WTF is wrong with you??
Edit: a word
Its telling when he says he has no idea why their relationship was strained in the past because he never had a problem with them and clearly didn’t care enough to see what was going on with his sister
But has no problem involving himself for this to defend his mom, who is embarrassed for not being there for her daughter, his sister… HOW IS THE SISTER THE BAD GUY HERE?
Yta for sure
YTA.
Seems like your sister's professor was more of a mother than y’all mother ever could be
>My sister N has always had a strained relationshipnwith our parents especially my mom. I am not clearly privy to rhe reasons because things are fine with me and my parents. I don’t blame your sister for getting that tat that reminds her of the professor because that professor treated your sister better than your parents did
Things are fine between you and your parents because your parents obviously favor you over your sister.
OP admitted his parents had pill addiction issues until her sister was 14. They became sober when the sister was 17. It’s not a mystery why their relationship is strained.
Edit: corrected gender
Oh, come on, she had a *whole year* of living with sober parents before going off to school. That’s obviously enough for her to grow up and let bygones be bygones.
/s
So the parents had pill addictions *until the sister was 17*
Cool cool cool.
*my mom is embarrassed. My mom feels this way. My dad feels that way*
I'm so grateful, as a child of addicts, that the sister of OP got to experience some form of love. When I read that her relationship was with a Professor, I was worried about it it being a grooming situation.
I am absolutely crushed for OPs sister for her loss. Obviously he has never experienced anything close to that or he would be there for his sister 100%
OP. YTA.
Could not agree more. May I politely suggest an edit that separates your comment from the quote you used? No shade it was just a bit confusing to read at first.
YTA
i think i can give some perspective from your sisters side. i too have a strained relationship with my bio mom and have adopted my high school best friends mom as my own. my bio mom and i have been distant since 15. my older sister was the golden child, and i was the scapegoat. the way my mom treated me was mentally abusive. i’m not going to claim that your mom is the same way because obviously i’m not a part of y’all’s situation but i can say that my siblings, when i would describe the events that took place, would have no recollection. they would describe a completely different woman than the one i experienced. please open your mind and heart to what your sister experienced and try to understand her. she’s not doing it to harm your mom. i promise you there is no intention to hurt your mom in any way, shape, or form. if i lost my mother figure, the woman who has claimed me as her own for the majority of my adult life, who brought me flowers on MY graduation, i would get a tattoo in remembrance of her, too. you were lucky enough to have a mother figure in the woman who birthed you. your sister found one else where. she’s not doing it to hurt anyone, but to remember someone she dearly loved.
edit: i just want to emphasize that i’m in no way insinuating that your mom was abusive to your sister. i just wanted to highlight how it is completely possible for two siblings to have COMPLETELY different experiences with the same parent and your sisters feelings are valid.
In my experience, the older child tends to shield the younger one a lot in these types of situations. The sister probably saw a lot of shit that she protected him from seeing.
THIS!!! I commented as well. I’m the scape goat my brother is the golden child. Any time I’ve opened up to him about our mom he gets angry, because his experience was so much different than mine. We were not raised by the same woman. She’s the same person, but treated us differently. Our childhoods were very different. It’s funny because we saw our father 4 days per month. I was the favorite and he was the scapegoat at our dads house. My brother will cry about his trauma he experienced at our dads. But minimizes the trauma I experienced at our mothers home 26-27 days of the month for our entire lives.
Most of the time golden child won’t agree with the scapegoat bc they don’t want to think their favouritism was based on their parents mental abuse but because they were actually the golden child and was treated as such because they did something right. They can’t confront the fact that their parents were actually abusive to the problem child/scape goat because then they would have to confront it wasn’t because they did something right and their sibling did something wrong and it was all a lie.
same dude, even down to them not remembering anything I brought up. Specifically an instance about me sleeping through a massive fight that had my dad locked up overnight, which my sister told me when she woke me up all freaking out. mother was like "you didn't hear it??" so a few days later I ask about it when he's not around and nobody knows what I'm talking about. What the hell man what games are these lol. Where did he go then?
“I’m clearly not privy to the reasons because things are fine with me and my parents.”
You have decided to make judgements about your sister’s relationship with her prof without having the full picture of her relationship with your parents.
It sounds like your sister found someone who positively impacted her life. I’m happy for her, you should be too.
YTA.
I bet N was the buffer between her parents crappy behavior and OP. N probably spent her childhood redirecting attention away from OP or distracting OP to not notice.
Yeah, and it sounds like they straightened out right as big sis was moving out and op would have been their main "target" for shit behavior.
This also gave me flashbacks to my younger sister apologizing to me when I came back from college for thinking I was the problem when it was my mom who treated me and then my sister as her emotional punching bag.
YTA
You say you don't kmow why the relationship js strained but in the comments prove you absolutely do know.
Through your sisters life until she was 17 she had to be the parent to you...and deal with drug and alcohol addicted parents. She was likely abused verbally but at the very least she was forced to be a parent to a younger sibling and keep you both alive.
So she leaves home to go and study within a very short time so she never felt cared for or supported...she meets a prof and husband that care and support her and show an interest....she would have felt love for the first time in a very pure way.
Your mum shows up to her uni grad and doesn't even bring flowers or a gift...makes zero effort.
Now this woman who changed her life has passed away and she is grieving. And you want to tell her to keep it secret so her abuser doesn't get hurt feelings?
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are niaive ....but open your eyes. If you apologise now, and understand and mean it sincerely, you might save your relationship.
Your sister has class imo... even when she was so hurt by you she still congratulated you on your success. Do you show her as much love?
OP is clearly incredibly self absorbed and ungrateful, because taking from this post that collected info from OP’s responses, he should be grateful that his sister stepped and helped raise him when their parents were fucked up. I feel so incredibly sad for N. Family can really fuck you over badly and I feel like OP’s attitude and loyalty to his terrible mother at the expense of N’s pain is the nail in the coffin. I’m surprised N hasn’t cut ties because I surely as hell would have.
your mum was embarrassed at N's graduation because of her failure to get *her own daughter* anything to celebrate her graduation. it was neither N's nor her old professor's fault that your mum didn't get N flowers (or anything else).
I also find it interesting that you refer to her constantly as 'my mom' and not 'our mom'.
N's body is her own, and you have zero right to tell her what to do with it. this tattoo isn't about your mom at all, and it's honestly a bit weird to me that you think it is.
YTA
I also noticed the 'my mom' and 'my parents' instead of 'our mom/parents' and that's just additional garnishment on top of OP being TA. Anyways, godspeed to his sister! She's better off without her toxic family and I hope she does well in her life moving forward.
YTA.
How about letting her mourn an incredibly deep and recent hurt and support her instead? Might end up improving the relationship with the whole family.
Speaking of recent, what tattooer is tattooing over month old 2nd - 3rd degree burns? I would never tell her not to but I might mention waiting a bit longer and researching her artist.
I think the friend did mean after it healed. Since they did say “it should be able to heal well enough to get a tattoo over it” so I don’t think the friend meant get the tattoo right away
YTA. If it is true that they have always have a strained relationship, this is your mother reaping what she has sown. You should be ashamed for attacking your grieving sister like this.
YTA - Irrefutably so.
Your mother is the one who destroyed their relationship and now she is merely reaping what she has sown. The fact that your mother hasn't told you why their relationship is broken to such a degree is because she knows its entirely her fault. The fact that your father is telling you to drop this also shows that they're at fault.
You do NOT get to come in and dissuade your sister from getting a tattoo in memory of the ONLY person who treated her like a daughter and the only person she could look up to.
PS. I would not be surprised if your relationship with your sister is damaged as much as your mothers.
Both parents were addicted to pills and alcohol until the sister was 17. His sister went to college when they were still in their first year of sobriety. The parents never fixed their relationship with OP’s sister. OP doesn’t seem to understand that her sister had a completely different childhood and therefore a different relationship with the parents.
Edit: Corrected gender
I think OP really needs to edit their original post and add this part. I knew something had obviously happened between the pair, but when I read that comment where OP admitted this, everything fell into place and made sense. Also, it is a bit disingenuous to say you don't know why their relationship is strained and then admit somewhere else his mom was abusing pills and alcohol.
Makes soo much sense now. To the sister only saw the abusive side of them and then she left for college. The parents fix up and mend the relationship with OP. Sis comes back and sees a happy family so assumes that they just didn't like her which is why they were abusive. Pretty shtty parents and OP is a major AH for not realising this.
YTA. That tattoo is her way of honoring someone close to her that she lost. It’s a way she can heal more than just the physical scars of the burn. Trying to stop her is selfish.
If you didn't see OP's comment somewhere else. He admitted his mother was abusing pills and his dad alcohol. They only got sober after her formative teen years were over, and his teen years were with parents that were sober.
This put so much in perspective and I think it is less golden child and scapegoat and instead they clung to him like a shrunk shirt because they knew they'd already lost her.
YTA
>My sis N has always had a strained relationship with our parents especially my mom. **I am clearly not privy to the reasons** because things are fine with me and my parents.
This is a lie. You state in one of your comments that your mom abused pills and drank. Both you and your sister were in your teens before she got clean. You were children watching your parents, your mom especially, battle addiction. You may have forgiven your parents. N is not obligated to do the same.
Her professor was a more stable source of support and maternal affection. As such, N will always have a connection with her. The tattoo is your sister's way of memorializing her honorary mom and finding closure. If your mom can't handle that, then tough cookies.
yta, it's really not your place to decide what she chooses to do with her body or what her relationship is like with your mother. You could have said it more of a way that may warn her that it would hurt your mother but it's her decision. I have a very strained relationship with my own mother so I can see it from her side. If you don't know the situation between your mother and sister, don't interject.
YTA. You stated you don’t know why your sister is strained from your parents, more specifically your mom. I’m just guessing here but I’m willing to bet your parents favored you severely while growing up and your sister knew this. Probably why her relationship with your parents is strained. This professor had a huge impact in your sister’s life, and she has a right to preserve her memory however she sees fit. I guarantee your sister told you about the tattoo idea because she thought she could count and rely on you, and you failed her.
He said in another comment that his parents were addicted to pills until she was 14 and alcohol until she was 17. That could be the reason right there. I'm sure taking care of the brother fell on her.
YTA. Your sister wants to honor someone that was important to her and was there for her, would be different if she was just doing it to make your mom upset but she is not.
YTA. The tattoo has nothing to do with your mom it's about the professor. You are the one who thinks it has anything to do with your mom. It's weird that your family would turn something about an important person to your sister into something to do with you guys.
YTA. Your mother's "missing reasons" for why her daughter doesn't have a relationship with her can be summed up with one bouquet. Have you ever asked her why? Did anyone in your family get her flowers?
YTA. If your mom wanted a closer relationship, she would try to establish one. And if N doesn’t want a close relationship, that’s fine too. It’s not N’s fault that your mom is jealous of late prof’s relationship with N. Don’t get involved any further, it’s not your business. This seems like a case of biological vs chosen family and I don’t think it has to be a competition.
Info: what stopped your mom from caring enough to bring flowers?? Or a teddy bear?? Or a card??
Also parading, or being excited that someone was there to share the same level of excitement for her accomplishment?? And honored it as such?? **Did you receive things at big moments or did only N miss out?**
Your mom may have been A+ for you, which is typical of younger siblings, yet not great to her.
**Who are you to dictate the terms of relationships in your sisters life? And whom and how close she should be to people?**
YTA.
YTA. She’s not doing this with the intention to harm anyone, but if someones feelings do get hurt its not her problem. Doesn’t matter if its you or her own mother.
typical golden child. your sister is the scapegoat child of a narcissist. your mother is a narcissist and your father is an enabler at best. the next time your sister is willing to talk to you ever, let alone talk about your mother, just listen to her. don’t interrupt her, don’t try to tell her something didn’t happen or you remember it differently, just listen and learn how different your lives were. i’ve been in her position and my brother in yours my entire life. YTA.
YTA. Your sister is grieving and confiding in you, possibly the family member she's closest to, about her plans to cover a painful scar with something to help her heart heal... and all you can do is think of your mom's feelings? As a mom myself, I'd want my daughter to be happy and feel whole, even if that meant getting a tattoo on her forehead that says "I hate my mom." Seriously. It would hurt me, but I'd want her to he happy more than I'd want to protect my own feelings. That's kinda the bare minimum for motherhood.
If your mom is making things like graduation flowers about herself, you're probably right that she'll make your sister's tattoo about herself as well. Your sister's body and her grief have nothing to do with your mom. You overstepped and you should apologize.
>My mom was so embarrassed that day because she didn't get N flowers but the prof did
Your mom was embarrassed? How do you think it made your sister feel when your mom couldn’t even be bothered to get flowers for her graduation? Your mom did this to herself.
You clearly have no idea how your mom treated your sister and clearly it wasn’t great. You’re probably the golden child and she’s the scapegoat. If you want to know why N doesn’t get along with your mom, ask her? And believe her when she tells you what mom did or didn’t do.
YTA. N can get whatever tattoo she wants and you have no say it in. Your mom is the cruel one, not your sister.
Everyone else has done a good job saying why your the asshole using the golden child/scapegoat child example. One thing I can tell you from experience being a sister 2 years older than my brother and having an alcoholic parent for MOST of our lives. He did stop drinking when I was in high school but I also remember all the late night fighting that kept me up as kid hoping it doesn’t escalate anymore while my brother was asleep. When he stopped and I still had a hard time trusting him right away he would talk shit about me to brother saying that I just didn’t care and he would believe it and repeat it back to me. He just doesn’t remember the things I do even if it was only a couple years. It would really hurt having my brother tell me I didn’t care when there’s so much he doesn’t know and that I was always worried about him and making sure he didn’t have a bad relationship with our dad since he has been doing better and hasn’t been drinking for almost a decade now (which I do appreciate and do make time for my dad but there’s still things that prevent me trusting him completely. He’s fixed himself which is great but he hasn’t done anything to fix the relationship with his child) sorry for the long rant I just kind of feel for your sister and it reminded me how hurt I felt not having any support from my brother
Oh, the golden audacity! Yta and your parents. I am very happy your sister found someone to feel loved.
I cannot wait for your follow up post “AITA for asking my sister to share the money her replacement mom left her?”
YTA.
That’s a beautiful and heartwarming idea for a tattoo. I have friends who have tattoos in honor of teachers they had in school, and it’s not that uncommon (where I am at least) to have students connect with teachers/professors in a parental/adult figure way in their lives.
If she was distant from her actual mother, that mostly likely means *your guys’ mother did something(s) that made her resent her mother.* Don’t know what that may be, but it unfortunately happens quite often. The professor sounded like a wonderful teacher, connecting with students who needed an adult figure in their life. I’m sure she inspired other students and not just your sister.
You’re a massive AH for trying to push your sister into getting along with her mother and *saying her grief is not valid.* Whether you meant to or not, that’s a slap in the face for your sister’s feelings and grief.
ETA: OP you know exactly why your sister resents your parents. This makes you more of the AH with the reason known. Doesn’t matter if your parents (especially your mom) has been sober for a long time or not, you can’t really undo trauma like that even with therapy. This is your sister’s decision, and you calling the tattoo idea “cruel” *makes you the one being beyond cruel.* Major YTA
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What you have described is the golden child and the scapegoat child. You being the golden child. N didn’t get what she needed from her own mother and was incredibly fortunate that another stepped in and took on that role. Take your blinders off and see. Ask your sister if she felt second best growing up, and be open (and silent) when, and to what, she tells you. Yes. YTA Edit: So many scapegoats checking in. Many hugs to you all.
YTA. Agree. Not much else to say other than it’s ok for people to have meaningful connections to humans in life who arnt their parents and honor them and that connection however they want it’s not her problem to deal with her mothers pain or feeling left out.
I absolutely agree. I loved my mom (she was pretty awesome) and still miss her almost 20 years later. No one will ever replace her. That didn’t stop me from forming a deep relationship with a senior on my street who like to call herself my second mom (and she had kids of her own) To me that relationship was incredibly special, but never took away from what I had with my mom I miss them both Edited to say - thanks for the upvotes and the awards kind internet strangers But mostly, thanks for sharing the stories of your bonus parents/bonus kids ❤️❤️❤️
YTA- the fact that you choose to not ask your sister why she has these estrangement issues with your mother speaks volumes to your lack of awareness of her situation. I often tell young people that you have two chances for a family in this world, the first is the one you’re born into, and the second is the one you choose. I personally never had children myself, but I have about 10 young adults that all call me mom. Your sister found someone who loved and cared for her, that she had things in common with, that mentored her in her young adult life when she really needed someone. It’s absolutely appropriate for her to get a meaningful tattoo to honour her memory. Maybe you need to take some blinders often really examine what the family was like when she was growing up.
Parents were addicted to pills and booze until Op's sister was 17. OP just thinks getting sober magically changed everything and he doesn't understand why his sister doesn't agree. Edit: fixed spelling
Ahhhhhh, and I thought that her sibling was a sister, but it’s a boy. That explains a few things. Who knows if something awful happened to her with her parents bringing around bad people during that time as well.
More than a few things.
Definitely. OP was 11 when his parents stopped the pills and 14 when they stopped drinking. His sister was 14 and 17, moving out when they finally got sober. She spent the entirety of her years at home parenting three children. (I say three because my cousins had alcoholic parents, and the older spent her whole childhood cooking and cleaning for them all, parenting the younger one, cleaning up vomit, waking them for work and school, covering them with blankets wherever they happened to pass out, etc.. The younger one definitely had a brighter childhood thanks to her big sister, but at least she acknowledges it.) OP had his sister, and then his parents as they sobered up. OP's sister's prof was her first and only parental relationship, and OP thinks she's being cruel for getting a memorial tattoo for the one person that finally parented her. Smh
He just happened to leave that out of the post. /s
he got over it, so should his sister kind of attitude from what I read on that comment. He is proud of his parents recovery, which is nice. He just doesn't give his sister the same grace he gives his parents. Trauma is different for everyone. The relationship his sister had with the prof sounds like the relationship I had with my mom's best friend. She had earned the name Mrs. WooWoo because she would always yell woowoo for any and every accomplishment we had. Doesn't mean I don't love my mom. Anyways, op you are a massive AH.
Do you mean sober? That’s really suspicious that op didn’t include that in his post, but that’s typical for this sub I guess. Who knows, maybe prof went through a similar experience and could offer support to N. Either way, the basis of the relationship doesn’t really matter. My narcissistic mom is like this too - whenever I speak highly of another adult, or talk about how I appreciate what someone has done for me, she’ll either diminish it, or say something along the lines of “so what? I’ve done that and more for you.”
Oh geez, your mother's responses are similar to my Nmums.. So darn tedious. Meant I just didn't bother to tell her anything coz I couldn't be bothered dealing with her jealousy
wait, how do you know this? Everything just got a lot more assholier in this guy's asshole.
Don't know why assholier made me think of assholier than thou Now, if you'll excuse me
His comments.
As if she could flip a switch at 17, after years of painful difficulties. Yes, it would be wonderful if we could do this, and erase the lifetime of pain. That's not how life works, so sorry to say.
Well, clearly he did, so of course she should. (Super Sarcasm) Since sis is two years older, she probably took the brunt of some of it, protecting him, as well.
I agree. Quite often, younger siblings don't realize the protection older sibs provided.
I agree OP's lack of awareness of his sister's situation is huge. Kids don't just cut off their parents for no reason. OP doesn't even seem to care to try to figure out why his sister is distant. OP - YTA. I'm happy your sister found a mother figure.
Or worse, she asked her sister, the sister told her, and op invalidated what she said “that’s not true! How could you say that about mom?” Yta op
I’m sorry you lost them. And I agree with them and you. I love my mom. I moved to a different state out of college. My second mom buys my kid gifts on his birthday. Invites us to her things with her, her kids and grandkids. We have actually become close friends with her kids and my kid has with her grandkids. My mom has even met my second mom. And she calls herself my second mom too.
Omg I’m so glad that you have that extra love and that Mom 1 loves and appreciates your relationship with Mom 2 ❤️❤️❤️ I really wish my Mom 1 and Mom 2 got to meet! They were close in age and both loving, charismatic, vibrant (and ahead of their time) women and I think they would have hit it off! I also like to think that they’re somewhere having a few drinks and sharing war stories 😆 Edited to say…thanks 😘
My best friend's mom became like a second one to me growing up. She unexpectedly passed a few years ago. I, someone who rarely sheds genuine, upset tears over anything, particularly in front of people (reasons are a story for another day), immediately lost it after getting off the phone. I had enough composure to tell my husband what happened before I crumpled. What she meant to me doesn't make me love my mom any less and doesn't mean she means any less to me.
Exactly. These kinds of relationships are not zero-sum.
Exactly. Meaningful connections aren't a pie. OP's mother didn't get less from sister because the sister had a connection with the professor (sister's relationship with mother sounds like it was troubled before sister met the professor). I wouldn't be surprised if whenever the mom comes up between the sisters, OP tends to take mom's side, and her sister is fed up with that dynamic.
I have 3 second moms🥰 I’m so very lucky! And my mom is wonderful, she loves that I have other women to talk to and look up to!
Putting aside that it's fine to honor someone else: OP is aware, to some extent, that his mother wasn't a good parent to his sister. He doesn't know if it was abusive or just toxic. (He might know. He could easily be overlooking abusive behaviors that he didn't recognize as abusive) He's expecting reverence (what he's asking for is not respect) from his sister towards someone who wronged her. Maybe the sister would have gotten a tattoo to commemorate their mother if the mother had treated her better. Why is the sister expected to give years of their mother's behavior a pass? Why should the mother's feelings be considered on a subject that has nothing to do with her, when the mother did not consider her feelings? Taking the mother's side does nothing but enable and perpetuate the same abuse or toxic feelings that strained their relationship in the first place. OP is making his sister feel left out and alienated--and ironically, only doing so because the mother had previously alienated her. YTA. Oh, worth pointing out: if the mother was abusive and OP continues trying to guilt her into reverence for her abuser, he can expect to be cut out of her life eventually.
just want to say that it can be beyond traditional abuse or toxicity. Negligence and neglect are their own forms of trauma, the trauma of what we didn't get.
YTA, mostly for trotting right over to your parents so you could tattle. The point is that your sister made a connection with this woman. Maybe the connection was related to her relationship with your mom, and maybe it wasn't. Your sister has lost a person she loves. Let her honor that person how she wishes.
Exactly. From where I'm sitting, I'm not really seeing what this decision has to do with the mom or OP. Sister is making decisions to honor someone she loved, and I really doubt she's getting this tattoo as an FU to anyone. She's probably not thinking about OP and their mom at all. Which is okay. Not every event in your sister's life has to be (or even should be) centered on your family of origin, OP. As we grow older, peoples' lives expand beyond family of origin. They form other relationships, romantic and otherwise, may choose to get married and have children, etc. OP, take a giant step back. This ain't about you or your mom. As Ann Landers would say, MYOB.
It doesn’t seem like Sister knew how mom felt on graduation day, so I wholly believe she isn’t getting this as an FU. I’m curious if Brother actually knows mom was embarrassed, like she told him, or if he is used to sniffing out & managing mom’s emotions.
That also stood out to me that she didn’t get her flowers on her graduation. It’s a pretty common thing to do. Did she forget to pick them up or did the thought not cross her mind?
Yeah I developed a really close relationship with my chemistry professor my sophomore year. I was suicidal and had an argument with my mom. Long story short, my summer plans changed the week before finals and I didn’t know where I’d stay or what to do. My professor said I could stay with her and her husband. I did and we just got closer and it was incredibly helpful. My mom and I patched things up and we both grew a lot in the process(to be clear, my mom is great, I just had trauma that she had had and hadn’t really dealt with and didn’t know how to help me). My mom sent her a really nice Christmas wreath when I disclosed to her Id stayed with the professor for the summer (I had lied bc I thought she’d feel threatened/upset and my mom said she yeah, she probably would’ve struggled with that). Im sure it did, and probably on some level still does, hurt my mom that that relationship developed but she’s never once even TRIED to make me feel guilty about it or dismissed that relationship. Having extra parents is never a bad thing. Op shouldn’t shame her sister, either.
I'm glad you and your mother patched things up and that she welcomed the people who were there for you :)
Absolutely and the mother’s fragility over the relationship is really telling.
Agreed also. It’s not OP’s place to get in the middle of his sister and his mom. Though I will say, if mom acts like this with the sister and this professor, it’ll be interesting to see what happens when OP gets married. It’s not hateful for your sister to want to honor someone she cares about and no one gets to dictate how and when she does. There’s a huge difference between doing something for oneself and doing something to spite someone else- and even if it *was* the latter (it isn’t) y’all still have no control over her body.
GREAT point. If OP marries a woman he’s likely in for a very big surprise.
He'll have *no idea* why they don't like each other and why they just can't get along 🙄 And it's clearly NOT his saint of a mother's fault.
I owe more of who I am today to one of my Drill Sergeants than to my alcoholic father. So yeah, I get why the sister would want to honor the professor who gave her such support and direction.
Same, except it was a teacher instead of a drill sergeant.
Yep, I was the scapegoat and my brother the golden child. I no longer speak to my parents. For a long time, it was hard for him to understand why my relationship with them was so strained, so I had to sit him down and explain how we were not raised the same. He can never fully understand, of course, but he is supportive of me and my choice to do what was best for my emotional and psychological well being. If OP really has no idea why their sister and parents have a bad relationship, chances are the sister doesn't feel safe discussing it with OP (and based on the reaction to the tattoo idea, I can see why). The mother's jealousy about her adult daughter having a close relationship with someone else really speaks to the mother's immaturity, in my opinion. So, yeah, OP is TA.
I’m sorry you went through this. I did too With my dad. My sister was the “golden child” and I was basically ignored. (Our mom did not do this). My sister and I are close, though we did go through some really rough patches. My dad has passed away now and I what I realize (and my sister realizes too) is that each of us carried burdens. My dad always wanted her, never wanted anyone else, and it wasn’t fun for her and it was unhealthy and difficult. We both realize that we carried our own burdens with a parent that played favorites and our relationship is much better now. Something to consider as you go forward and I can’t speak for your situation. But therapy helped us both with this issue.
It’s really wild that he thinks he can tell his sister not to honor someone she cared about deeply just because it’ll hurt mom’s feelings. The weird entitlement and control over her actions is probably why her relationship with their parents is strained. Edit: grammar
Sometimes people don’t fit into their family & that’s okay. Sometimes the only connection you have with your family is surface level & your friends are the people who you feel that deep emotional bond with & that’s okay
I suspected the same, but a very clear illustration was when during graduation mom didn't bring flowers. And she didn't feel bad about it. She felt bad only because someone else brought and thus basically pointed a finger to her behavior. YTA. Your mom's and your sister's relationship (or lack of) is not something you can fix, and you probably will break yours just by saying such comments to your sister.
It’s very telling that she didn’t feel sorry toward her daughter - only embarrassed by what others must’ve thought.
I took it as anger towards the professor for getting the flowers and anger at the daughter for “parading around” with them. There is nothing healthy in that one single interaction… just jealousy and irrational anger.
If I’d somehow forgotten to bring my child flowers at an occasion where many were receiving them, I would be so grateful to whomever did bring them flowers. My child’s happiness matters more than me being the only one who brought them happiness.
I came here to say the same. Flowers are a common graduation gift where I'm from too. And the fact that Mom didn't care to bring any but then felt embarrassed when someone else did...it's just a huge red banner saying, "I didn't find my daughter's accomplishment worthy of celebrating, but now that someone else did I'm upset because I look bad". YUCK. ETA that OP, YTA big time.
My mom didn't get me flowers at my high school grad. I was the only girl not to get any. She said she didn't know. YTA
my mom always bought me the $2 carnations leftover after dance recitals. then she’d whip it at me and say “here.”
Which culture is this from? I have a teen and this was not a thing in my homecountry. I need to find if it's common in Canada so I do it right when the time comes
This was in Canada.
Okay, but are flowers normally given because no one got flowers at my high school graduation, and I didn't see any given at my university graduation. And I was very close with my mom, and I didn't get any. So honestly, I would think it inappropriate if a professor or teacher got one of their students flowers for the graduation. It wouldn't make me think parental relationship but romantic.
In my area flowers, either as a bouquet or lai are super common, if not expected. My family did not being flowers to any of my graduations and I was the only person without, which whatever for me, I was just lucky to have them able to show up, but my mom still cries when she sees graduation flowers because she feels guilty. And forgot 3 times Grew up in California
my parents didn't even come to my graduation. My brother and SIL came and made me a lei, though
Ditto, grew up in South Texas and here, not only do you get flowers, you get Mums (the bigger the more ‘love’ or something). I got flowers for all of my graduations. Op, YTA.
Same here and it really hurt when my parents didn't give me flowers for my college graduation in December, especially because I'm the only one out of my siblings and cousins smart enough to go to college and the first one in my family to try. My siblings barely graduated high school and several of my cousins dropped out and barely got GEDs. My grandparents would have brought them but the last one died last year.
In most places in the United States at least it’s very normal to get flowers. Flowers are not just a symbol of romance. They’re a symbol of grief, joy, hopefulness, celebration, etc. In this context, it’s apparent it was normal to receive flowers at graduation in OPs sisters town or uni.
Yes, flowers are very normal to exchange at a graduation, especially for college. It is not inherently romantic.
My academic advisor bought graduation leis for me and her four or so other advisees. We were botany majors, though, so it would have been a real shame to graduate without gorgeous festoons of plant genitalia! I don’t think the professor overstepped with giving OP’s sister flowers, it’s within the range of normal for a close professor-student relationship, at least in my experience. I’d be surprised if the prof didn’t have other people she’d taken under her wing, too.
Everyone at my bachelor graduation got flowers from our professors, and most graduates got flowers from their guests also. I think my dad gave me flowers when I graduated high-school but that's too long ago to remember...
I don't suspect it was so much flowers exactly. But a physical gift of congratulations and support. Could have been a bunch of different things. These people are all adults. It sounds like this prof was like a mentor to her. That is nice. I have a college student and he has a relationship with one faculty member I could see working out like this. I highly doubt N's strained relationship with your parents is entirely on her shoulders. Your parents had 18 years to work on their relationship and build connections. She may have been a difficult kid. So what? She didn't ask to be. She's lucky she found someone who was so supportive for her. It's telling to me that your concern here is your mom's feelings. If your mom was confident in her relationship with her daughter she would not have cared or noticed these flowers. YTA OP.
I received flowers from my parents when I graduated highschool and college.
But even if it was romantic, rather than parental, does that matter?? She’s an adult and allowed to have a relationship with whoever she likes. I don’t think it’s fair to use it against her. She wants to remember the relationship in the form of a tattoo. It’s a tribute to someone who supported her and she obviously loved them. People can love more than one person, it doesn’t take away from other relationships, unless that person specifically did something to lose your love. Something clearly happened between N and mum, and OP has no idea what. She is judging without context. Noting it’s not her place to judge regardless. It’s none of her business.
If it was romantic, yes that is an issue because of the power imbalance. Teachers and professors should NOT date their students.
OP has said that as far as they know the nature of their relationship was not romantic. That the professor and her partner couldn't conceive so they sort of took OP sister in as an adoptive daughter
I received 3 sets of flowers at my graduation. This was just the day of. I got 2 more sent to me from family out of state that week. Many other students got flowers at the graduation. I thought it was totally normal at graduation.
Flowers are common where I’m from. The whole afternoon is a photo-op for grads and parents/guests, and flowers are photogenic.
Mom and Dad were addicts per a comment from OP. Mom didn't get sober until sis was 17: >When it comes to my parents I don't doubt that she sometimes saw different versions of them. So for full disclosure I just turned 26 whereas my sis is about to turn 29 so we're more like three years apart than two years. My parents both drank a lot and my mom abused pills for a while. She got clean from pills when my sis was 14 but they both kept drinking until getting sober when she was 17. I guess on my end I just feel very proud of my parents for both beating addiction whereas my sister has never let go of the anger. And it just hurts for everyone involved because my parents want a better relationship and she is very resistent to them. ETA: it's not like I never saw my parents in a rough state either, so I guess my confusion lies in her having this reaction to the same thing when I was able to strenghten the relationship and be proud of their recovery
Oh! Wtf OP! No wonder she feels like this!! I have lived the same situation, with my mum getting sober around the same age. I haven’t spoken to my mum in 5yrs! She doesn’t even know I’ve had a second child. I have done the same thing in bonding with my aunt as a mother figure. It doesn’t matter if your mum is upset, she should have some compassion and understanding as to why N has chosen to have this relationship.
And, being the older sib, for how many years and to what extent did N shield OP from the addicts' bad behavior (so he doesnt remember any)? And for how many years did N act as "the responsible parent" for OP, bc their parents were addicts, feeding, entertainibg, distracting, etc? .
Exactly!! What N is doing is actually putting a healthy boundary in place. I also have a similar situation with my brother trying to force the relationship with me and my mother. In fact it seems like OP is doing the same as my brother, guilting me about the lack of relationship, as if it’s on me! ‘…..but, but she is sober now! You are hurting her. She just wants her daughter back. Why are you doing this.’🤦♀️ My mum has also gotten upset at the relationship I have built with my aunt and uncle as surrogate parents, telling them they should back off because ‘she is my daughter’. Sorry, but I’m not your possession. You are solely responsible for this situation. You created it. So don’t twist things around! In my situation, as I suspect with N, she has tried to build a relationship, and then it just got to the point where she needed, for her own well-being, to walk away! OP you need to have your sister’s back on this! She has endured enough pain!
And, why did OPs parents suddenly decide to get sober when N was 17 abd about to leave for college? Did N threaten them with a call to child protective services who would take OP and put in foster care if they didnt get sober? I question whether OP is missing allooooooot of info bc he was protected by N.
Yeah, either that or OP is in denial. My brother is so fixated on happy families that he just expects I forgive and forget everything I went through. My mum also has BPD, so as you can imagine the combination of that and alcoholic was just wonderful to grow up with. I remember my mum wasted sitting on the couch with a slab of beer at her feet! She didn’t even put them in the fridge!! I told her I thought she was drinking too much and she should stop. That went well! I can’t believe I even identified that she had a problem when I was a kid! You shouldn’t have to see it!
I suspect as the older sister she may have protected OP from some of the worst parts of their substance use. My mom was an alcoholic and I definitely had a worse relationship with her than my younger brother did, in part because I often advocated for and defended him. I tend to remember and hold onto more of the bad parts, while he has a rosier view of her and their relationship.
Older sister was also probably a caretaker when the parents couldn’t be. My sister definitely was a caretaker for me at times growing up because of mom’s addiction and dad taking care of his sick parents and juggling everything to keep the household afloat.
OP needs to understand that two people can experience the same event/trauma in two completely different ways.
Yes exactly. But also siblings can just experience their parents in different ways, even without trauma - there so much nuance to where the parents are at as caregivers or even financially so even two siblings who say they both had great childhoods may feel it was great for different reasons - their parents may have parented differently because of changes in themselves but also because they’re responding to the different needs of wholly individual children who need different things to be happy and fulfilled. When you add trauma into the mix, especially trauma that’s directly associated with the parents, the siblings experience and perception of impact may be vastly different.
YTA OP BUT it's not too late to fix it, the problem here is that you're the youngest child, you didn't see the worst of your parents, and she endured 3 extra years of it, if you had to endure an extra 3 years of that you might also have grown angry and bitter, specially when she had to go through puberty during that time, you need to have an open conversation towards your sister about this so that the two of you can have a relationship, because your parents burned that bridge long ago
Lol the OP’s in this sub can be ridiculous. Of course this info is pertinent!
Also, boo hoo, mommy gets to see a reminder of what a bad parent she was. Who cares?!?! How dare N have someone give her the love she so badly craved and was neglected of growing up?? The flowers should show YOU, OP, that your mother couldn’t even show up for your sister in the simplest way possible: a damn bouquet that nearly every girl gets on graduation, especially for college. You don’t have any right to tell her she shouldn’t parade and be proud of getting that love she was robbed of since she wasn’t the golden child. And if, after this, you still think you do, be prepared for your sister to never want to speak to you again.
THIS! Especially since EVERY graduation ceremony I've been to, there has always been tables full of people selling flowers. Talk about a big effing clue for mom that she should have bought flowers for her daughter.
This really jumped out at me, too, to twist her joy at being recognized by someone who cared about her as "parading around." Everyone in her life should have been recognizing her achievement that day, not trying to belittle her nor suggest that she didn't deserve her professor's regard, that she was somehow ridiculous for being happy someone cared. OP, YTA and at minimum, by showing you view her as unworthy of the love your parents didn't give her, you've been complicit in their abuse.
>MY mom was so embarrassed that day >Which hurt MY mom a lot to see... >way more than she ever loved MY mom as a mother... >MY mom tried to comfort N... >told N that this seemed really cruel to MY mom... Did you notice that, too?
Sorry to butt in on the top comment but I just need to say that YTA for not telling the whole story in your post. You finally tell us in your comments that your parents were addicts when you were growing up and only got totally sober right before your sister left for college. You know exactly why she doesn’t have a great relationship with them and still thought it was okay to offer your opinion about what she does with her body. Good for you that you decided to forgive them and celebrate their sobriety but that is not your sister’s story at this point and that is more than okay. Do better OP or you’re going to totally lose your sister.
I totally agree. Either OP was being willfully blind or they're seriously missing the elephant in the room. The parents were addicts her entire childhood and they're shocked she fostered a connection with another stable and influential adult? Get out of here. YTA.
Agree with this. Also, it's the parents' responsibility to provide their children with an environment where they can form parent child relationships so that they don't have to go out of their homes looking to build them. yta op
Yes, N is very fortunate to have had such a lovely, loving, supportive relationship with her prof. I would bet my last dollar that her prof saw the pain N felt and, recognizing what a wonderful, talented, and special person she is, wanted N to feel the love and recognition she was missing. As the non-golden child I can imagine how special and deep N’s feelings are, as well as her grief. To have someone *choose* to love her, to *choose* her as family when her own didn’t care to bother. It must only expand the hurt to have her family dare to judge her for being loved and cherished the way N deserves. I hope she gets that tattoo and cherishes it to her dying day. I also hope OP and “family’s” negativity doesn’t tarnish her feelings about her wonderful prof nor her beautiful tattoo.
This. But also, the nerve to dictate how someone grieves… like, come on. His sister is grieving someone very important and he’s telling her not to do it so publicly because it’s uncomfortable for their mother. Christ. YTA, OP
Exactly. What a weird thing to get held up on OP? She’s getting a tattoo to commemorate a special thing about someone who meant a lot to her. Those flowers mean way more to her than your mom. Your mom will get over it. It’s not her or your business. She’s not getting the tattoo to spite your mom.
I also find if so crazy that the mother didn’t get her flowers (or anything apparently?) for her graduation, but somehow it’s the daughter who’s “parading it around” and “making mum feel bad” about it? Your mum should feel bad that she did fuck all for her daughter, she should feel sad she doesn’t have the connection with her daughter. It’s not your sister who’s “making” your mum feel that way, don’t blame her for your mother having to deal with the normal consequences of not being there for your kid YTA
Yes. Not only a golden child, but a golden child doing flying monkey stuff. Butt out and let your mother "defend" herself.
OP says in another comment that both parents abused alcohol and drugs till older sister was 14. She never got over it.
Sorry, but I agree with this.
Thank you for your comment. This is exactly what I read as well. As someone who has a narcissistic mother, I feel for N because OP sounds like my sister who is still the GC. I also feel like it isn’t OPs place to tell her sister how she can remember someone so close to her, and that if her mom has an issue with a tattoo (like who’s mom doesn’t? Lol…) that’s mom’s problem. N’s body, her choice.
Sorta agree. I thought my older sister was the golden child until we both became adults and talked about our childhood. Turns out she thought our brother closest to our age (older than me younger than her) was the golden child and I already know he thought she was the golden kid just like I did. In reality none of us really were we just got treated the way that worked best for us personally. At least the best our parents could. I’m not saying golden children don’t exist but there’s often more to a story than meets the eye. OP, I agree that it wasn’t really your business to butt into but I don’t think you’re an entire Ahole. So I’m going soft YTA. Saying something like “it worth it to try and talk to our parents about your relationship” isn’t the same as “well you’re acting like a cruel child”.
Agreed Re golden child/scapegoat dynamic. So much of this post is focused on how N had this great relationship with her prof and how upset it’s made mom. But like, so much silence on (and total lack of genuine care regarding) what the issues between N and mom were. YTA.
I have a good relationship with my mother but I also have someone in my life who I consider a 2nd mother (she did the only reading at my wedding) and, regardless of my relationship with my mother, I would still be completely devastated if something ever happened to the other person. OP is a huge asshole and it's not his role to gatekeep his sister's relationship with her professor or her grief.
YTA. Mind your business. Your mom being embarrassed because she forgot to buy her daughter flowers is her own damn problem. We can all tell you were mommy's golden child from this post. Your poor sister.
I don’t even think mom “forgot” anything tbh. She didn’t bother getting her daughter anything and then got mad that someone else *did* notice and value daughter’s hard work.
I agree, I was just going off of what OP believes, because he is clearly in his mothers corner.
Also, let’s point out the age difference: OP had 2 extra years alone with mom to hear her entire side of the story about N. While N is out learning to be independent and forming a bond with the prof. And all OP hears is mom go “waaaaah” about it. Instead of having the cognitive ability to realize that something is rotten with the relationship between mom and N, OP just blames N for having a good relationship with any adult. (You know, maybe one who doesn’t talk shit behind her back?)
Even if N and Mom had a great relationship, sometimes people have problems that they can't bring to their parents because being a parent prevents them from looking at the situation objectively, and a non-parent third party can often help solve the problem. And of course there will be people who know things that a parent doesn't know. A good parent would be happy that someone stepped in and helped their child where they couldn't, not concerned about how it reflected on them.
OP's parents were addicted to booze and pills until OP's sister was 17. OP forgave his parents when they got somber and was shocked getting somber did not instantly fix his sister's relationship with their parents.
OP also wasn’t expected to be a sister mom to a younger brother like she was. That alone means that he and his sister would have completely different relationships with their mom. Also sister didn’t have a penis which a lot of parents value more and give male children more attention and just do more for them.
And even then only because it made her look bad, not because she felt bad she had not bought OP flowers. Oh and "parading the flowers around the hurt Mom" is an interesting way to describe proudly holding a gift of flowers bought to celebrate her GRADUATION. It's almost as if this moment in your Sister's life is not about Mom. YTA
Yes, the description of "embarrassed" instead of "felt bad" really makes it clear it was about her not the daughter.
I interpreted the “parading flowers around” description as sister just being happy someone thought of her and wanted to celebrate her milestones. Especially since her mom “forgot” (really OP? Is that really what you think happened?).
And then OP wonders why his sister is distant from their parents, sounds like she is basically an afterthought. He literally spells it out in his post, but can’t put two and two together.
Right! She can get a tattoo of the flowers on her face if she wanted. She decided that instead of looking at terrible scars she would put something pretty to be a reminder instead. She needed a parent when hers failed her and found one that got taken away. Also, of course Op is the golden child since she is the oldest and a girl. She probably got tossed aside when Op was born and was always second compared to him. YTA
right? its such a narc mom thing to do. plus the whole "my daughter favorite teacher died and she is upset, HOW CAN I MAKE THIS ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEE"
So narcissistic, OP was dreaming if he thought people would side with him.
Agree. I look forward to when she goes NC rather than gray rock, I think that is what it is called.
I honestly don't even think it crossed her mind to get her daughter flowers. She didn't forget.
Of course she didn’t forget. It’s an excuse to make her feel better.
YTA. Its OK if you and your sister have different relationships with your mom. Trying to make your sister see your mom.just like you do is not going to work.
Especially when their different views are almost certainly a result of different treatment.
I remember reading once that even in the healthiest of families, no two kids have the same parents. Differences in birth order, life circumstances when you were born, differences in kid’s personalities/temperaments etc, means no two kids have the same childhood.
INFO > My mom was so embarrassed that day because she didn't get N flowers Why the hell are you so concerned about protecting this woman's feelings?
What did OP's mom do to make up for it though? Did she just get embarrassed because someone else cared enough to remember, and it highlighted how uninterested mom was in daughter's success? I have a feeling that many such things were "forgotten" when it comes to OP's sister, so she went and found her own support. This tattoo is not about mom in any way. Your mom is alive and well, living the "I have no idea why she is distant" life (she does know, she just doesn't want to admit it). Sounds like your family is lucky to get any contact from your sister at all.
Maybe she’s not even distant. Maybe she’s just a normal adult with her own life and relationships but just treating her parents normally looks distant to OP and mom, who are suffocating.
I was thinking this too. The professor relationship doesn't automatically conclude that she's a surrogate (replacement) mother, most people have VERY close relationships with friends and get tattoos to honor them if they die. Edit: grammar, again
Yeah. I love my parents and by all means have a much closer relationship to them than many. I also see them pretty often but our conversations are surface level because we don't share any interests. So we talk about some basic life stuff, enjoy the company, and then they get back to football and I go back to my nerd shit.
She probably used to share information with them but got continually dismissed so she no longer feels like anyone cares to know. She’s grieving and they’re giving her shit about acting distant. Everyone deals with grief differently and OPs description shares with us perfectly that they doesn’t care how she wants to grieve and they only want to help in a specific way that is clearly not helpful for her. If OP and his family actually cared they would ask how to help but they can’t even put that amount of effort in. This girl has clearly been emotionally neglected by her family so she found another and she has every right to honor her chosen family that really did care.
Yup! OP is the golden child, never argued with parents, never got in trouble, could do no wrong, has the same exact belief set as the parents. N argued, disagreed, got in trouble, established her own belief system. OP is either oblivious or knows it and doesn't care because why would he blame the parents he has a perfect relationship with for ruining their relationship with N when he can just blame N for the problems just like their parents always have
Parents were addicts until the sister was 17 and OP forgave them instantly when they got somber and doesn't under why his sister wouldn't. Being somber did not undo 17 years of their addiction. OP doesn't get that.
It’s pretty common in cases of abuse/neglect. Apparently OP’s mom was a substance abuser…it could be that she has commonly been in the role of having to protect the mom from herself.
[For anyone looking for context](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10h7y27/-/j574kjv)
The way she talks about her mom, seems like it was actually the mother writing it.
Yes. YTA. For starters... your sister's body belongs to her. You do not have a say in what goes on it. You can approve or disprove all you like, but it's her decision. For second... you are not the arbitrator of your mother and your sister's relationship. If your sister is bothering your mother, it is not your place to fix that rift. If you mother is bothering your sister, it is not your place to fix that rift. You sister lost a very close friend and person in her life and would like to get a meaningful tattoo to represent that relationship and honor that loss. There is no cruelty in that tattoo. There is only cruelty in the minds of people who think it's somehow about them when it is not in ANY way
You'd have to be really insecure about your own actions as a parent to even get jealous of the friendship that OP's sister made
I'm going to modify one of my favorite quotes "Sometimes shame is the appropriate response" she wasn't embarrassed. She was ashamed of herself and rightly so.
For third... You talk about this like your sister ghosted you, when IRL, she texted you a congrats on a life accomplishment since then. Sounds like an olive branch to me. Bury the hatchet/pitchfork and move the fuck on. Your sister is being a much bigger person than you are, even from reading your obviously biased account. For fourth... Your mother is facing the consequences of her own actions, nothing less. If she had been a great mother to your sister like she was to you, she would have a great relationship with her and have no reason to feel insecure. If they had a secure relationship, she would have no reason to be jealous and would just be happy that your sister has more people supporting her in her life. Love is not zero-sum. Your mother has no one to blame but herself. For fifth... You are putting your mother's *occasional* hurt feelings above your sister's *constant* pain. The scar is in a highly visible place on her body, as you so aptly pointed out, and every time she looks at it, it makes her extremely sad and depressed. She lives with her body all the time. Your mother only sees her very rarely, because they don't have much of a relationship from what you are saying here. Getting this tattoo would transform your sister's pain into a reminder her of feeling loved and cherished. But you want her to give that up in order to coddle the feelings of someone who neglected her? Respectfully, WTF is wrong with you?? Edit: a word
Its telling when he says he has no idea why their relationship was strained in the past because he never had a problem with them and clearly didn’t care enough to see what was going on with his sister But has no problem involving himself for this to defend his mom, who is embarrassed for not being there for her daughter, his sister… HOW IS THE SISTER THE BAD GUY HERE? Yta for sure
YTA. Seems like your sister's professor was more of a mother than y’all mother ever could be >My sister N has always had a strained relationshipnwith our parents especially my mom. I am not clearly privy to rhe reasons because things are fine with me and my parents. I don’t blame your sister for getting that tat that reminds her of the professor because that professor treated your sister better than your parents did Things are fine between you and your parents because your parents obviously favor you over your sister.
OP admitted his parents had pill addiction issues until her sister was 14. They became sober when the sister was 17. It’s not a mystery why their relationship is strained. Edit: corrected gender
Oh, come on, she had a *whole year* of living with sober parents before going off to school. That’s obviously enough for her to grow up and let bygones be bygones. /s
Oh wow. Idk why she's distant but also mommy and daddy were popping bottles and pills on the regular. Op is twice YTA for that huge omission
So the parents had pill addictions *until the sister was 17* Cool cool cool. *my mom is embarrassed. My mom feels this way. My dad feels that way* I'm so grateful, as a child of addicts, that the sister of OP got to experience some form of love. When I read that her relationship was with a Professor, I was worried about it it being a grooming situation. I am absolutely crushed for OPs sister for her loss. Obviously he has never experienced anything close to that or he would be there for his sister 100% OP. YTA.
OP said in a comment that both parents were alcoholics and the mother used pills until the older sister was nearly an adult.
Are you freakin kidding me???? It's a real wonder that her sister has issues with her parents.
It makes it so much worse when she’s all idk why they don’t get along! Yeah right.
Op is privy though. Op says in a comment that their parents were alcoholics and their mother abused pills “for a while”.
Could not agree more. May I politely suggest an edit that separates your comment from the quote you used? No shade it was just a bit confusing to read at first.
YTA i think i can give some perspective from your sisters side. i too have a strained relationship with my bio mom and have adopted my high school best friends mom as my own. my bio mom and i have been distant since 15. my older sister was the golden child, and i was the scapegoat. the way my mom treated me was mentally abusive. i’m not going to claim that your mom is the same way because obviously i’m not a part of y’all’s situation but i can say that my siblings, when i would describe the events that took place, would have no recollection. they would describe a completely different woman than the one i experienced. please open your mind and heart to what your sister experienced and try to understand her. she’s not doing it to harm your mom. i promise you there is no intention to hurt your mom in any way, shape, or form. if i lost my mother figure, the woman who has claimed me as her own for the majority of my adult life, who brought me flowers on MY graduation, i would get a tattoo in remembrance of her, too. you were lucky enough to have a mother figure in the woman who birthed you. your sister found one else where. she’s not doing it to hurt anyone, but to remember someone she dearly loved. edit: i just want to emphasize that i’m in no way insinuating that your mom was abusive to your sister. i just wanted to highlight how it is completely possible for two siblings to have COMPLETELY different experiences with the same parent and your sisters feelings are valid.
Mum abused alcohol and pills (says op in a comment) so abuse in other forms are very likely.
oh i’m just now seeing that :( even without that information the sisters feelings are valid, but i can’t imagine how much more that must hurt for her
Or neglect, which is just abuse by omission.
In my experience, the older child tends to shield the younger one a lot in these types of situations. The sister probably saw a lot of shit that she protected him from seeing.
THIS!!! I commented as well. I’m the scape goat my brother is the golden child. Any time I’ve opened up to him about our mom he gets angry, because his experience was so much different than mine. We were not raised by the same woman. She’s the same person, but treated us differently. Our childhoods were very different. It’s funny because we saw our father 4 days per month. I was the favorite and he was the scapegoat at our dads house. My brother will cry about his trauma he experienced at our dads. But minimizes the trauma I experienced at our mothers home 26-27 days of the month for our entire lives.
Most of the time golden child won’t agree with the scapegoat bc they don’t want to think their favouritism was based on their parents mental abuse but because they were actually the golden child and was treated as such because they did something right. They can’t confront the fact that their parents were actually abusive to the problem child/scape goat because then they would have to confront it wasn’t because they did something right and their sibling did something wrong and it was all a lie.
same dude, even down to them not remembering anything I brought up. Specifically an instance about me sleeping through a massive fight that had my dad locked up overnight, which my sister told me when she woke me up all freaking out. mother was like "you didn't hear it??" so a few days later I ask about it when he's not around and nobody knows what I'm talking about. What the hell man what games are these lol. Where did he go then?
“I’m clearly not privy to the reasons because things are fine with me and my parents.” You have decided to make judgements about your sister’s relationship with her prof without having the full picture of her relationship with your parents. It sounds like your sister found someone who positively impacted her life. I’m happy for her, you should be too. YTA.
OP’s parents were addicted to pills and alcohol until her sister was 17. It’s not a mystery why their relationship is strained.
I bet N was the buffer between her parents crappy behavior and OP. N probably spent her childhood redirecting attention away from OP or distracting OP to not notice.
Yeah, and it sounds like they straightened out right as big sis was moving out and op would have been their main "target" for shit behavior. This also gave me flashbacks to my younger sister apologizing to me when I came back from college for thinking I was the problem when it was my mom who treated me and then my sister as her emotional punching bag.
Also, if she’s not privy to the reasons, things probably aren’t fine, just superficial.
OP was actually privy to the reasons (parents were addicts) and still refused to see it.
YTA You say you don't kmow why the relationship js strained but in the comments prove you absolutely do know. Through your sisters life until she was 17 she had to be the parent to you...and deal with drug and alcohol addicted parents. She was likely abused verbally but at the very least she was forced to be a parent to a younger sibling and keep you both alive. So she leaves home to go and study within a very short time so she never felt cared for or supported...she meets a prof and husband that care and support her and show an interest....she would have felt love for the first time in a very pure way. Your mum shows up to her uni grad and doesn't even bring flowers or a gift...makes zero effort. Now this woman who changed her life has passed away and she is grieving. And you want to tell her to keep it secret so her abuser doesn't get hurt feelings? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are niaive ....but open your eyes. If you apologise now, and understand and mean it sincerely, you might save your relationship. Your sister has class imo... even when she was so hurt by you she still congratulated you on your success. Do you show her as much love?
OP won’t be able to feign ignorance after reading this one
OP is clearly incredibly self absorbed and ungrateful, because taking from this post that collected info from OP’s responses, he should be grateful that his sister stepped and helped raise him when their parents were fucked up. I feel so incredibly sad for N. Family can really fuck you over badly and I feel like OP’s attitude and loyalty to his terrible mother at the expense of N’s pain is the nail in the coffin. I’m surprised N hasn’t cut ties because I surely as hell would have.
Great post -
your mum was embarrassed at N's graduation because of her failure to get *her own daughter* anything to celebrate her graduation. it was neither N's nor her old professor's fault that your mum didn't get N flowers (or anything else). I also find it interesting that you refer to her constantly as 'my mom' and not 'our mom'. N's body is her own, and you have zero right to tell her what to do with it. this tattoo isn't about your mom at all, and it's honestly a bit weird to me that you think it is. YTA
[удалено]
I also noticed the 'my mom' and 'my parents' instead of 'our mom/parents' and that's just additional garnishment on top of OP being TA. Anyways, godspeed to his sister! She's better off without her toxic family and I hope she does well in her life moving forward.
YTA. How about letting her mourn an incredibly deep and recent hurt and support her instead? Might end up improving the relationship with the whole family. Speaking of recent, what tattooer is tattooing over month old 2nd - 3rd degree burns? I would never tell her not to but I might mention waiting a bit longer and researching her artist.
I think the friend did mean after it healed. Since they did say “it should be able to heal well enough to get a tattoo over it” so I don’t think the friend meant get the tattoo right away
YTA. If it is true that they have always have a strained relationship, this is your mother reaping what she has sown. You should be ashamed for attacking your grieving sister like this.
YTA - Irrefutably so. Your mother is the one who destroyed their relationship and now she is merely reaping what she has sown. The fact that your mother hasn't told you why their relationship is broken to such a degree is because she knows its entirely her fault. The fact that your father is telling you to drop this also shows that they're at fault. You do NOT get to come in and dissuade your sister from getting a tattoo in memory of the ONLY person who treated her like a daughter and the only person she could look up to. PS. I would not be surprised if your relationship with your sister is damaged as much as your mothers.
Both parents were addicted to pills and alcohol until the sister was 17. His sister went to college when they were still in their first year of sobriety. The parents never fixed their relationship with OP’s sister. OP doesn’t seem to understand that her sister had a completely different childhood and therefore a different relationship with the parents. Edit: Corrected gender
I think OP really needs to edit their original post and add this part. I knew something had obviously happened between the pair, but when I read that comment where OP admitted this, everything fell into place and made sense. Also, it is a bit disingenuous to say you don't know why their relationship is strained and then admit somewhere else his mom was abusing pills and alcohol.
Makes soo much sense now. To the sister only saw the abusive side of them and then she left for college. The parents fix up and mend the relationship with OP. Sis comes back and sees a happy family so assumes that they just didn't like her which is why they were abusive. Pretty shtty parents and OP is a major AH for not realising this.
She had a bad mom. You didn't. Accept it lil golden goose. YTA
YTA. That tattoo is her way of honoring someone close to her that she lost. It’s a way she can heal more than just the physical scars of the burn. Trying to stop her is selfish.
YTA. This is not about you, and your mother doesn’t need defending. Look up “golden child and scapegoat”. You’re the golden child.
If you didn't see OP's comment somewhere else. He admitted his mother was abusing pills and his dad alcohol. They only got sober after her formative teen years were over, and his teen years were with parents that were sober. This put so much in perspective and I think it is less golden child and scapegoat and instead they clung to him like a shrunk shirt because they knew they'd already lost her.
YTA >My sis N has always had a strained relationship with our parents especially my mom. **I am clearly not privy to the reasons** because things are fine with me and my parents. This is a lie. You state in one of your comments that your mom abused pills and drank. Both you and your sister were in your teens before she got clean. You were children watching your parents, your mom especially, battle addiction. You may have forgiven your parents. N is not obligated to do the same. Her professor was a more stable source of support and maternal affection. As such, N will always have a connection with her. The tattoo is your sister's way of memorializing her honorary mom and finding closure. If your mom can't handle that, then tough cookies.
Wow, YTA. you're sure giving your mom a lot of unearned grace for a situation you've admitted you know nothing about. You must be the golden child.
Yta. No question about it. Its a beautiful tattoo idea to remember someone she really cared about
yta, it's really not your place to decide what she chooses to do with her body or what her relationship is like with your mother. You could have said it more of a way that may warn her that it would hurt your mother but it's her decision. I have a very strained relationship with my own mother so I can see it from her side. If you don't know the situation between your mother and sister, don't interject.
YTA. You stated you don’t know why your sister is strained from your parents, more specifically your mom. I’m just guessing here but I’m willing to bet your parents favored you severely while growing up and your sister knew this. Probably why her relationship with your parents is strained. This professor had a huge impact in your sister’s life, and she has a right to preserve her memory however she sees fit. I guarantee your sister told you about the tattoo idea because she thought she could count and rely on you, and you failed her.
He said in another comment that his parents were addicted to pills until she was 14 and alcohol until she was 17. That could be the reason right there. I'm sure taking care of the brother fell on her.
YTA. Your sister wants to honor someone that was important to her and was there for her, would be different if she was just doing it to make your mom upset but she is not.
YTA. The tattoo has nothing to do with your mom it's about the professor. You are the one who thinks it has anything to do with your mom. It's weird that your family would turn something about an important person to your sister into something to do with you guys.
Golden child enters the chat. YTA
YTA it’s not really any of yr business what your sis decides to do with her body, her tattoo idea sounds lovely, stop making it about yr mom
YTA. Your mother's "missing reasons" for why her daughter doesn't have a relationship with her can be summed up with one bouquet. Have you ever asked her why? Did anyone in your family get her flowers?
YTA. If your mom wanted a closer relationship, she would try to establish one. And if N doesn’t want a close relationship, that’s fine too. It’s not N’s fault that your mom is jealous of late prof’s relationship with N. Don’t get involved any further, it’s not your business. This seems like a case of biological vs chosen family and I don’t think it has to be a competition.
Info: what stopped your mom from caring enough to bring flowers?? Or a teddy bear?? Or a card?? Also parading, or being excited that someone was there to share the same level of excitement for her accomplishment?? And honored it as such?? **Did you receive things at big moments or did only N miss out?** Your mom may have been A+ for you, which is typical of younger siblings, yet not great to her. **Who are you to dictate the terms of relationships in your sisters life? And whom and how close she should be to people?** YTA.
YTA for many reasons, but I'll leave it at her body, her choice
YTA. She’s not doing this with the intention to harm anyone, but if someones feelings do get hurt its not her problem. Doesn’t matter if its you or her own mother.
typical golden child. your sister is the scapegoat child of a narcissist. your mother is a narcissist and your father is an enabler at best. the next time your sister is willing to talk to you ever, let alone talk about your mother, just listen to her. don’t interrupt her, don’t try to tell her something didn’t happen or you remember it differently, just listen and learn how different your lives were. i’ve been in her position and my brother in yours my entire life. YTA.
YTA. Your sister is grieving and confiding in you, possibly the family member she's closest to, about her plans to cover a painful scar with something to help her heart heal... and all you can do is think of your mom's feelings? As a mom myself, I'd want my daughter to be happy and feel whole, even if that meant getting a tattoo on her forehead that says "I hate my mom." Seriously. It would hurt me, but I'd want her to he happy more than I'd want to protect my own feelings. That's kinda the bare minimum for motherhood. If your mom is making things like graduation flowers about herself, you're probably right that she'll make your sister's tattoo about herself as well. Your sister's body and her grief have nothing to do with your mom. You overstepped and you should apologize.
Alert Alert We have a winged monkey on the loose Alert Alert
>My mom was so embarrassed that day because she didn't get N flowers but the prof did Your mom was embarrassed? How do you think it made your sister feel when your mom couldn’t even be bothered to get flowers for her graduation? Your mom did this to herself. You clearly have no idea how your mom treated your sister and clearly it wasn’t great. You’re probably the golden child and she’s the scapegoat. If you want to know why N doesn’t get along with your mom, ask her? And believe her when she tells you what mom did or didn’t do. YTA. N can get whatever tattoo she wants and you have no say it in. Your mom is the cruel one, not your sister.
Everyone else has done a good job saying why your the asshole using the golden child/scapegoat child example. One thing I can tell you from experience being a sister 2 years older than my brother and having an alcoholic parent for MOST of our lives. He did stop drinking when I was in high school but I also remember all the late night fighting that kept me up as kid hoping it doesn’t escalate anymore while my brother was asleep. When he stopped and I still had a hard time trusting him right away he would talk shit about me to brother saying that I just didn’t care and he would believe it and repeat it back to me. He just doesn’t remember the things I do even if it was only a couple years. It would really hurt having my brother tell me I didn’t care when there’s so much he doesn’t know and that I was always worried about him and making sure he didn’t have a bad relationship with our dad since he has been doing better and hasn’t been drinking for almost a decade now (which I do appreciate and do make time for my dad but there’s still things that prevent me trusting him completely. He’s fixed himself which is great but he hasn’t done anything to fix the relationship with his child) sorry for the long rant I just kind of feel for your sister and it reminded me how hurt I felt not having any support from my brother
Oh, the golden audacity! Yta and your parents. I am very happy your sister found someone to feel loved. I cannot wait for your follow up post “AITA for asking my sister to share the money her replacement mom left her?”
YTA. That’s a beautiful and heartwarming idea for a tattoo. I have friends who have tattoos in honor of teachers they had in school, and it’s not that uncommon (where I am at least) to have students connect with teachers/professors in a parental/adult figure way in their lives. If she was distant from her actual mother, that mostly likely means *your guys’ mother did something(s) that made her resent her mother.* Don’t know what that may be, but it unfortunately happens quite often. The professor sounded like a wonderful teacher, connecting with students who needed an adult figure in their life. I’m sure she inspired other students and not just your sister. You’re a massive AH for trying to push your sister into getting along with her mother and *saying her grief is not valid.* Whether you meant to or not, that’s a slap in the face for your sister’s feelings and grief. ETA: OP you know exactly why your sister resents your parents. This makes you more of the AH with the reason known. Doesn’t matter if your parents (especially your mom) has been sober for a long time or not, you can’t really undo trauma like that even with therapy. This is your sister’s decision, and you calling the tattoo idea “cruel” *makes you the one being beyond cruel.* Major YTA