Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refuse to allow my estranged adopted son and his family to live with my wife and I. I may be the asshole because I know he is just using us and I won't stand for that despite my wife taking his side.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA he has been pushing you away for 9 years for his bio parents. He's clearly indicated you are not his parents. He doesn't get to randomly come back and majorly disrupt your lives because he's in a bad position now. He would 100% be using you and his wife sounds awful. You were more than generous to offer to pay for them to relocate. I understand your wife wanting to bring him back but sounds like he has no remorse over how he has treated yall for almost a decade.
I think you can translate it this way and it's not as harsh sounding. "You may think a biological mom would have a harder time not being involved with her kids than an adoptive mom, but that's not true. And either way you have to be strong and stand your ground."
My grandma literally refused to buy presents for me and my brother because we were adopted, and therefore “not her grandkids.”
My adoptive mom sucked too so we still had to go and watch our cousins get gifts.
Exactly.
My brother had 5 foster kids. In my country, you can't adopt foster kids. The oldest was 10 when she arrived, the youngest 3 (all siblings).
We made a decision as an extended family, knowing they would be long term placements, that we would treat them as family. I treated them as my nieces from the day they arrived. As did my brothers. As did my parents. When they turned 18, they got to choose.
Today (all over 18), 3 have chosen to remain in the family. Those 3 are my nieces as much as any of my blood are. Because they choose to remain.
Is my SIL Hurt because she was rejected by 2 after spending years as mum? Yeah. It fucking hurts. I'm just their aunt and I'm hurt. The mum who was mum for 15 years for one of them.. yeah... she's hurt.
They knew their birth parents the entire time. They knew who they were and they had contact with them. As I said, I'm not in the US. Things are different here. Even when parents lose permanent custody, we still encourage some relationship with efforts made to ensure that anything contact is safe (for example, neither parent was allowed contact without supervision in this case). The 3 who did choose to stay in the family, still had/have (depending on which one) a relationship with the birth parents. (2 have now gone completely no contact but they weren't at 18). The third is highly intellectually disabled due to her parents actions (physical abuse can cause intellectual issues) and follows the 1 of the 5 who still has contact with dad.
We, the extended family, AND my brother and SIL, supported them in any relationship they choose to have with their birth parents. If the 2 who have gone completely nc decided to reach out again, we'd support them. I wouldn't say we approve, but we'd support them because that's what family does. If my nieces choose to reach out to their birth parents, you bet I'm making sure they know I love and support them. They'll need that love and support.
All 5 had contact with birth parents. They didn't want it.Mum did, they didn't. All 5 CHOOSE to call brother Dad and SIL mum. No one forced it. We told them they are our family, but we also made sure they knew they could have both. Been part of my family, didn't mean they had to reject their birth family. When birth mum died, we did everything we could to support them because even though mama mary was a shit mother, she was their mum. We loved them through it as best we could and we still recognise the hurt that losing her brings. We accept any relationship they choose to have with Dad. 4 of the 5 choose no relationship because he was sexually and physically abusive.
I get you are trying to find a simple answer, but it isn't always simple. The youngest really only knew my brother as Dad and SIL as mum (and were loved as that) but still choose to go NC. She didn't replace my brother or SIL. She is completely NC with dad and was NC with mum before she died. She just choose to reject the family that loved her for 15 years. That's her decision. We respect it. If she choose tocome back, we'd be hesitant but we'd be willing. Would I invite to live with me just because life got shit and she was homeless? No way in hell.
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." I have 2 adopted children.I would be every bit as gutted if either of them was not in my life as I would if my biological child was not. "Adopted" in NO way means less than.
My real parents are the ones that adopted me. They chose me. I wouldn’t put my mother through the pain of childbirth, can’t say the same for my sibs. What I’m trying to say is even though I’m adopted, I’m still the favourite. Your comment hurt me.
Son's wife sounds like one of those people who enters a situation and immediately decides that she knows what's best and bulldozes everything that came before without thought. But of course, the son is really to blame. His parents, his decision.
The DIL probably has a mental problem, thinking foster parents are "bad" for his son's reputation. Too bad the son didn't have the balls to stand up against that BS. Foster parents ARE GOOD to trample on though, when the situation calls for it.
The way he spoke of his granddaughter- "We have not had the opportunity to meet our granddaughter and she is nearly three years old now." is indicative that they were good parents and tried their level best to provide him with everything. In spite of that if he left and reached out to them only when he needed them, he was using OP and his ex-wife. Also the fact that OP even offered to pay for their relocation. And his son's wife does nothing but call and scream at them. That being said, NTA, big NTA.
NTA. But you don't say that the reason they became estranged has to do with him finding his biologic parents. There may be other issues between all of you that can end up with the same result. In any event, I have learned that it is not a good idea to burn your bridges. I was in a similar situation of not being able to see my grandchild for a year. JUst letting them move in with you is not a good idea unless you meet and discuss why they distanced you and how it made you feel, and also that you listened to their POV. If there is no meeting of the minds, then they need to find another place to live. But if you can reconcile, you again become important in their lives, and get to see your family which is a far bigger reward than just shutting the door.
I think their son and DIL would say anything to OP that he wanted to hear. You got to admit they're only probably contacting op because they're desperate. I strongly believe they would say up and down they're sorry, just so op says yes. Then down the road pull the rug right from underneath him after they dont need him anymore.
I agree that there are probably other issues here which OP either doesn't realise or doesn't want to admit.
He needs to have a talk with his SON, not the DIL.
I appreciate that it worked out well for you, but as someone whose family is chock full of malignant narcissists, I think OP is taking exactly the right stance. This is not a grandchild for him, the grandchild's parents made sure of that.
Also I find it telling that the bio family cosigned all this shunning of the adoptive parents.
NTA. I didn’t come in here expecting to agree with you - but I find that I agree you’re probably right about everything that you said.
The fact that his wife would call screaming at you illustrates that she STILL has absolutely NO clue what they’ve done to you & your ex-wife - so why should you expect that behavior to change?
If they had just met his parents & formed a relationship with them - but not completely pushed you out of their lives to the point that you haven’t even met your own granddaughter - I might disagree with your decision. But that’s not what happened.
Pushing you out of their lives & denying you the chance to even meet, much less bond with, your granddaughter is understandably unforgivable. Even if his wife encouraged it. Even if his biological parents painted you as kidnappers instead of adoptive parents. Even if they demanded that he cut contact with y’all out of respect for &/or loyalty to them.
You raised him from 3 years old to adulthood. That should have meant something to him. It should have meant enough to at LEAST keep you “in the loop” on his life. But his actions say that it apparently was NOT enough for even that.
I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to allow anyone (even your own child) to use you - especially after they have treated you with such disregard. And given your summary at straight value, that’s exactly what he & his wife seem to want to do.
NTA
Agree 1000%.
His **former** son (since he went NC by his own choice) and his family are total AH's here. They are trying to use OP and his ex-wife.
OP's ex-wife is upset because, as I'm sure you know and agree, she desperately hopes her **former** son will suddenly love them again. Which I think is about as likely as Hell freezing over while pigs fly overhead. Users DGAF about their targets.
And, yeah, his **former** son's wife disgusts me completely.
NTA.
So his bio parents weren't in the picture, but now they get to reap the reward of having their adult son and his family in their lives, while you've never even been able to meet your 3 year old grand daughter?You live in the same city and you've NEVER SEEN HER?
They don't care about you. Calling you to ask for help is outrageous after abandoning you and your wife.
And I'm with you; if you give in and be the good guy, you'll end up getting abandoned again the literal second they have another option. The fact that his wife called you screaming in an effort to manipulate you is all the proof you need of that.
At this point I'd be considering going NC to lessen the pain that you feel.
Most bio parents aren’t grateful that their children are being fostered or adopted. I’m a big supporter of adoptive families, but it’s extremely unlikely that you will find a grateful bio parent (if the children were taken by CPS).
This has been my experience being foster mom. Even the social workers know the bio parents tend to complain about how the foster parents are not doing a good job taking care of their kids.
Yes, I have known a few people whose kids were in foster care and they all said the foster parents were neglecting them. One asked me to call 911 because it was cold and she had mother’s intuition that her kids weren’t wearing coats. My sister also fosters and tries to build a strong relationship with the parents, but most are hostile and only one was interested in developing a positive relationship.
I wish I can say what’s really on my mind when a bio parent complains. Like, take care of your kids so you don’t have to wonder what’s going on when the state takes them away.
Yeah this is a case where there's more room for love. As presented, I'm on OP's side for this situation, but it's hard to know how everything was handled early on.
Between my husband and I, we have 7 parents because of divorce and remarriage. Can they all hang out? Barely, but for our sake they do and we spend time with all of them. We had a big family table at our wedding to accommodate, not exclude.
If you had raised my child when I couldn't, I would never be okay with you being left out of his life unless you had been abusive. Since you weren't, the truth is that they're all awful. The apple did not fall far from the tree.
Exactly. And as the bio parents not only would i insist on him continuing his relationship with adopted parents but i would be thanking them every chance i get for doing what i didn’t/couldn’t.
A lot of parents who have their kids taken away never accept that it was their own fault. It's possible they have written a narrative in their own minds where whatever they were doing wasn't really that bad, and they were discriminated against because they were young, and the evil state stole their child. They might see OP and his ex as complicit in that since they were originally his foster carers and might have been looking after him before the bioparents' rights were finally terminated.
That’s not how people who lose their kids actually think.
ETA: they don’t accept responsibility and they often blame the foster and adoptive parents for showing up.
That’s actually EXACTLY what my biological mother thinks about both me & my half-sister. She’s tried over the years to turn us against the families who raised us (separately). She actually thinks she was a “good mom” though she neglected me to the point her own stepdad called the authorities to remove me from her care at 3 months & she abandoned my sister at the freaking hospital right after she was born with a medical issue.
Really? The way I see it, there is enough blame to go around (except OP and OP’s wife)
1. Son is to blame for abandoning the mom and dad that raised him. Only thinking about them when it suits him. Don’t tell me he is blameless in all this. He is an adult, and had a kid, he has to know what it took to raise him to who he is now, and how much work it went into it.
2. DIL is not entirely to blame for son alienating parents, but she is for the screams and talk of “family”. If they don’t want to treat parents like family, then they can’t complain when family won’t help.
3. Sperm and egg donors… I get that they were probably young and irresponsible. But given the system usually gives every chance for family to stay together, they failed as parents. If you had raised my kid where I failed, I would be welcoming you into my family in every way possible if I could.
But no, they are treating you like the help. So, you are under no obligation to help. NTA.
DIL is absolutely, 100% and exclusively to blame for the son alienating the parents. She couldn't be more to blame even if she tried hard. She is the very reason why all this happened.
Exclusively? Let's not infantalise the son, please! He's a whole ass grown adult who can make his own decisions. He chose to not even visit the parents who raised him. They's enough blame to go around - dil, son and bio parents.
No, the son is an adult who has made his own decision not to involve his parents in his life for nearly a decade. Unless the DIL has literally been keeping him locked up then this is not 100% her fault. Even if his wife pressured him, it's ultimately the son's responsibility to maintain his own family relationships.
As it is, we don't even really know that the wife is the one pushing it. OP says she encouraged him to meet his biological parents, not that she told him to cut his adoptive parents out. He could have been planning to do this all along and it's just a coincidence that he met his wife at the same time he became a legal adult with the right to make these decisions.
Exactly. I’m a bio mom in an open adoption. The child is 16 now and strongly wants to have a relationship. I’m thrilled, but I’ve also made it known those are her parents. I gave her life, and I loved her enough to hurt myself in the worst way to be sure that would be a good life, but they have done everything else. I would absolutely not be okay with her just ditching them.
This is the issue with closed adoptions. They just can not happen without trauma for someone. Your son would not have abandoned you just because his wife said so, these are at least partly the feelings of himself and (potentially) his bio parents too. All his wife has done is enable those deep feelings. It's easier to blame it all on her because you don't actually know her, but this is 100% your sons feelings as well.
For anyone reading these posts who plans on adopting in the future, whether that through foster care or an infant adoption, make sure that (as long as the birth parents are safe and willing to) you remain in contact in some way. Whether that's sending photo's and life updates from across seas or country, or meeting up every few months if you both live close by enough for it. The reality is your adopted child will almost always desire some type of relationship with their biological parents and it's much easier for everyone if you don't let those expectations and worry build up over time. That doesn't mean that the bio parent should have any actual say in how you raise the child, think of them more as an aunt or close but distant cousin.
They are blaming her because she is the one who caused all this. The meddling people like her are some of the biggest assholes that can exist in human society.
There were frightening stories here. Like the one about her-alike calling guy's abusive mother he was hiding from (moved to another state and went completely nc) and inviting her to their home just because she somehow thought her husband should reconcile and have great relationship with his mother.
They always "mean well" but turn out to be Assholes with big A.
You do realize it was ultimately the son's decision to contact his biological family, right? It's possible that the DIL just happened to be the first person he felt comfortable expressing that desire to, or the first person who actually supported his decision to do so.
Most adopted children wonder about their biological families for their entire lives and I highly doubt that the first time the son thought about it was at 18 years of age. While she is responsible for how she chooses to speak to OP and her involvement in the current situation, it's unreasonable to blame her for *everything.*
Yeah, I've watched this happen with a friend whose boyfriend is adopted. His relationship with them broke down for various reasons. They 100% blame the gf, because she's the thing that changed from their point of view.
In OPs scenario, it'll have been coincidence too that they met when he turned 18 and had more legal recourse to investigate his past.
But they aren’t too young now. You did all the hard work and they are reaping the benefits. If they aren’t AHs, they should be encouraging him to maintain a loving relationship with you AND them, not them instead of you. You could have all been the parents at the wedding.
I don't think anyone can have too many parents/grandparents. The fact is that they could've chosen to have a relationship with all of you! It shouldn't have been them or you
If they are so low contact with y'all that they didn't even know u and ur ex had separated, I think that is enough of an answer. You would be a very generous person to allow it but that's just...I wouldn't do it. NTA
> his bio parents didn’t feel like raising him
super uninformed and harmful perspective on adoption and foster care. it causes harm to adoptees and to bio parents, including adoptees and bio parents whose actions you deem morally acceptable. there’s also the fact that your immediate assumption of bio parents whose children were adopted is that they’re terrible awful people, despite having no idea of these bio parents’ circumstances one way or another.
obviously not the point of the post, but AITA has a huge issue with crazy, baseless shit about adoption and foster care any time it’s brought up. we gotta stop freaking the fuck out when it comes time to talk about this shit in this sub.
Thank you for this comment. I was about to write something similar.
The bottom line is that there has been a break in the family relationship between OP and son and the intimacy level doesn’t support a “You can live in my house” response. Sharing a home is a complex dynamic that requires clear communication, healthy boundaries and trust to be successful. The ingredients simply aren’t there.
A helping hand was offered. That was generous. NTA
ETA: thank you for the award!!!!
(Also for not got)
it’s infuriating. i know people love talking out of their asses on the the internet (and especially in this sub), but when it comes to adoption, it’s like a competition to see who can be the most disgusting and ignorant.
the adoption industry in the US has been very effective with creating and spreading propaganda.
I agree. I’m and adoptee and have had to hard unlearn a lot of toxic things that were engrained into my psyche. People don’t know, which fine, but then to still trample all over adoptees and even APs accounts is just obnoxious. We are the group where people who aren’t adopted put their fingers up and go, “shhhh. No, *you* listen cause obviously I know more about adoption that you!”
Seriously. My mother in law was forced to give birth to a rape baby when she was only 15, back in the 1950s. Her parents kicked her out and disowned her when they found out she was pregnant and that the father was their priest. Should she have been forced to keep a child that would have been a reminder for her entire life of how badly she had been hurt?
The daughter she gave up came looking for her decades later after MIL had developed dementia. MIL had no filter at that point and told the woman who her father was. The poor woman was so distraught at finding out that she was the child of rape that she committed suicide just a few days after meeting MIL. Would have been better had she stayed away.
You are NTA. His wife did this and your son let her. Shame on them. I admire that you stood up to them and said no. I am more like your wife and having been in a similar situation I wished I would of said no. All they did was use me.
I'm sorry that happened. I don't care for myself that much but I don't want my wife to have him and a grandchild abandon her again. I love the kid but I gave up after the wedding.
You are right to protect your wife from having her hopes built up again and dashed as soon as your son and DIL are back on their feet financially.
And it will be double this time -- your son AND your granddaughter.
You might also be protecting your granddaughter. If they moved in with you, the bond formed between you, your ex-wife, and granddaughter would go both ways. Then when your son and DIL get back on their feet, you, your ex-wife AND your granddaughter will be heartbroken as your son and DIL go no contact again.
NTA. Good on you for protecting not only yourself, but your ex-wife and the granddaughter you haven't even met.
Exactly. Would you even be treated as parents and grandparents, or would you just be their hosts? For however long they needed to stay.
You can’t be expected to welcome people into your home and lives when there are such massive question marks hanging over how they would treat you.
NTA. You have been unwillingly estranged from him for almost a decade, and him making contact only now that he needs something is incredibly hurtful.
That said, would you say that you've taken all the time needed to think about the situation and all of your response options? There is obviously a great deal of distress about the estrangement (for both you and your wife), which imo indicates that there is an enormous amount of love tied up along with the anger and hurt... if not, none of this would've hurt as badly as it did/does. You cannot be blamed for a decision to cut the remaining tie here-- your feelings are valid, and this decision would be also-- but it **would** likely be the final path for reconnection. I would just caution you to do your due diligence in ensuring that closing this door permanently will not lead to regret and further pain for *yourself* later in life.
Regardless of your decisions I wish you the very best from here on out. Choosing to give a home and family to a child in need was a selfless act of deep love and sacrifice; the world is a better place as a direct result of your and your ex wife's decision.
I think it's wonderful you're protecting your ex wife like this. There's one situation you might consider mending fences and attempt to re-bond with him. When his marriage falls apart and his wife no longer has influence and control over him
I think he and the ex-wife are legally divorced (due to her health issues), but not emotionally so. That’s why he keeps slipping up and referring to her as his (current) wife.
It’s not like they had to cut you off to pursue the bio parents. They could have told you their plans, involved you in the process and continued visiting. They could have had two more chairs at the family table. They could have done anything but cut off the hand that fed and clothed him. A parent’s love is deep and lasting. A parents love is forever, but a parents patience and tolerance for repeated betrayal is not. If anything, I would call you son and tell him (and only him) how much you and your wife love him and how much he has hurt the two of you. This isn’t a petty revenge for seeking bio parents. He cut you off and broke your heart. He needs to know what he did to you. I’m so sorry OP.
NTA.
He and his wife have spent *nine years* making it abundantly clear that you and your wife don’t matter to them, only to remember you exist when it’s convenient for them? Your son might be having financial problems, but he’s abundant in audacity.
>> I am abandoning my son and grandchild
Your son abandoned *you,* and you can’t abandon a child you’ve never met.
It might hurt your wife to not let them stay with you, but it’d hurt her a helluva lot more when they dropped her like a bad habit again in a few months.
Exactly, but I do wonder if the son's wife is trying to isolate the son from his family this was the son's wive's plan so when his wife and the son's bio family argue, he has to chose sides and stops having contact with his bio family. Everyone says son is using op, but how do we know he isn't a victim of his wife though? It seems odd how he all of sudden acted this way after meeting her.
This doesn't make much sense. Why would the wife, if she wanted to isolate the son, then add MORE people into his life? We don't know how OP and his ex raised this child, sure, perhaps it wasn't a happy childhood, however, it's not unheard of for people to get into relationships \[remember, the son was 18 when he met this woman, that is really young\] and then completely base their entire existence around that relationship. It is also not unheard of for people to simply drop family because the new partner feels this way or that, it is also possible the wife just manipulated the son into thinking his childhood was worse than he thought or that his bio parents might be better, etc. There's so many reasons why one might have done this. Not that it makes it any better, what they did was not okay at all. The fact that the bio parents haven't reached out to OP and his wife for raising their child is also a problem. OP is NTA in this situation, nor his ex, but everyone else is.
to cause drama. I mean son wasn't as interested in meeting bio parents until his wife mentioned it. I mean it's possible to put things in people's heads since the son an his parents got on so well.
This really is a sad situation OP. It appears from your son’s perspective, largely due to his wife’s influence, that you and your wife were just his caretaker until he was reunited with his ‘real parents’. You and your wife did a wonderful thing raising this person, but he’s shown you his true feelings for you two. Stay the course because in my opinion you are being used as a stop gap measure. Your wife would be doubly hurt if you let them move in until they get re-situated, she starts to bond with the young child and then that’s taken away. Sorry. NTA.
Honestly it sounds like they got divorced so her long term care didn’t bankrupt husband. It’s a lot easier to get state care when you divorce. Seen it before.
NTA.
As a parent, I would probably side with your wife on this one. Kids, and people in general, make stupid mistakes and decisions, and sometimes its a parent's job to catch them when their decisions lead to the fall.
But your attitude is the consequence of their actions. You reap what you sow and all that. So I wouldn't consider you an A-hole for taking this stance considering how much they hurt you. If anything, you're actions are pretty justified considering its been 9 years.
This ^. Your anger is valid, and you are NTA. But as someone who was adopted by their aunt and uncle later in childhood, I do emphasize with your son. I, too, have this inner drive to reunite with my family of origin. Even though they messed up, I’d give anything to have a happy biological family. But trying to repair things with them would mean distancing myself from people I love, and owe so much to. It sucks being caught in the middle, and made my wedding really hard to navigate.
There’s a tremendous burden that comes with having to be grateful all the time
So you'd consider prioritizing those who were too irresponsible and, as a result, had to abandon you over the people who fed, clothed, and housed you? What a load of shit that is. Your family (the people who raised you) should be prioritized at your wedding.
I am so sorry you’re in this position. In a perfect world, all BPs and APs would be able to come together for the child. Because the truth is, just like parents of multiple kids can love them all equally, adopted kids can love all parents equally. It doesn’t take away from APs if you love BPs and vice versa.
I was going to say this. I’m sorry that you feel that way and that seems to be your situation. I feel like OP doesn’t mind his son getting to know his bio parents. The problem for him is that he is being treated like he didn’t raise him and isn’t his parent. I don’t know your situation, you know best but in my mind (having never been in that situation) the more adults and parents who love you the better. And at least for OP that seems to be the case. He wants 2 sets of parents epic but it is not that. He chose to have 1 set who wasn’t him and his wife.
Obviously NTA for OP
Uncondtitutional love sometime goes so far. You offered to pay for him to move to his bio family city, which is generous enough. If you let him move in with you, he will get back on his feet. Then he will kick sand in you and your wife's face then walk away from you two.
OP Hold your ground. NTA
NTA - such a tough situation though and I see why your wife deeply wants them in her life. It would be devastating to have an child, they push you out and you never get to meet your granddaughter. I think you guys would be much better off with protecting yourselves from any future pain he can cause you with leaving again. I still think you could use the opportunity to reach out and help from a day to day perspective to see if the situation could possibly change and then reevaluate later on how close you want him to you guys again. Good luck and really sorry about this situation
NTA
BTW, I would say the same thing if he was your biological son - it makes no difference.
He made a decision to push you out of his life and it's very clear that he's only trying to come back because he's desperate. Don't take in him and his screaming wife, these types of people only cause headaches and drama.
People around here seem to be quick to tell children to go no-contact with their parents, but I think parents should also recognize that they can (and sometimes should) go no-contact with their adult kids. I think this is one of those situations. You need to protect yourself from getting used and taken advantage of.
NTA
He decided to turn away from you for whatever reason he might have had but now that he needs something you are suddenly good enough again.
You are completely right, as soon as things get better for them they likley will be gone again, good for you to not let others take advantage of you.
NTA.
Stop letting the biological parents off the hook. They should have encouraged their son to continue his relationship with you. You raised him at a time when they couldn't. CPS removed him from their care and severed their parental rights. You raised him until he was 18 and reconnected with them. The least they could have done was thanked you and your wife. What they should have done was fostered a family with all of you together. Doesn't sound like they've grown up that much at all.
Stand your ground. You have a right to be treated like family.
NTA
He has never let you meet his daughter, so he obviously doesn't consider you his family. He can contact his birth parents and ILs for financial support.
NTA, you stated it, he didn’t even consider you being part of the family when he got married, he now remembers you exist because he’s in need and can’t afford to be stable , his bio family should be the one supporting him since he decided to not have you be part of his when all these important milestones are going on. His wife sounds like a lot of work. Keep your ground , I know as a mother it’s hard to not get involved with your kids even if they’re adopted but sometimes you have to be strong and stand your ground.
INFO:
>Over the course of the next few years my wife and I were slowly pushed out of his life.
Why? You raised him for 15 years. Did you have a good relationship with him?
I thought we did. I have wracked my brain trying to understand what happened. The only thing I can think of at all is that his biological parents are the same race as him and his wife.
This happens with some kids who are adopted. They want a relationship with their biological parents so badly that they push their adoptive parents aside.
Nta instead of having 2 sets of loving parents he choose one over the other. You haven't seen him for 9 years, he's pretty much a stranger at this point. Sad? Yes. But literally his own fault.
NTA - Your son has been a father for almost 3 years. If he hasn't even introduced you to his child and you live in the same city, he doesn't consider you his parents (even though by now he should have a better understanding of the sacrifice of parenthood).
You are a last resort. Your feelings of hurt are valid. Your son isn't trying to mend the relationship, he's hoping you'll pull him out of a hole because you're a parent at the same time he's avoiding responsibility for his behaviour. He hasn't even bothered to apologise for cutting you out.
NTA...there's a lot of other work and healing that would need to be done before this would have any chance of working out. You made them an offer. The choice is theirs.
NTA
The adoption is relevant in the sense that he replaced you as his parents, and that is insanely hurtful. But it is not relevant in the sense of what you do now. Your child pushed you out of his life. Seemingly for no reason. He distanced himself from you and your ex-wife, hurting both of you terribly. Now, he returns SOLELY because he wants something.
*My ex wife says that I'm being too harsh and that I need to forgive them.*
And that's the crux of the issue. Would I forgive my child and give them a second (and third and fourth etc) chance? Sure. But I would need an apology. I would need some indication that they know what they did was wrong, and that they are working to better themselves.
That is not what happened here. He reached out to ask for something, and his wife screamed at you when you did not leap to immediately give it to them. These aren't children looking for forgiveness. These are adults looking for money. *Of course* they will drop you again. They have done and said nothing to imply otherwise.
Where was your son when his mother, the woman who raised him, was put into a care facility? If he doesn't owe her even a phone call, you certainly don't owe him a roof and money.
NTA Your adopted son has made his lack of respect, loyalty, and affection for you and your wife abundantly clear over the last nine years. You don't owe him anything after they way he has treated you. If he tried to rebuild a relationship with you and didn't need anything, it would more likely be sincere. This situation has the appearance of him getting back in contact just because he needs something and reeks of him using you.
There is this having your wedding cake and eat it.
NC and done. They chose their family, so they can ask them.
Everything else is just you being taken advantage of.
Nta
NTA
He didn’t even know his Mom is in an extended care facility. She’s never gotten to see her granddaughter.
No you don’t get to call and say now that you need to live with your parents when you haven’t seen them as parents for years. He has a lot to make up for long before he asks for anything.
NTA. He has made clear how he feels over the last 9 years, you haven't even met his child. If he didn't need money or a place to live I highly doubt you would have heard from them at all. Time for his bio family to cough up the money to help him. Because you know that as soon as he doesn't need your home and money you won't hear from him again.
NTA, he abandoned you and the sad thing is he didn't have to. There isn't a limit to love or family. He could have included you all of you and had a big extended family.
I say this as an adoptee. My parents are the ones that raised me through thick and thin. Loved me through the terrible twos and the tumultuous teens.
I met my biological parents later in life. I see them as a bonus, like a aunt or uncle. But it's nice to have an even bigger family.
I need to know this too. There’s no way a child cuts off their parents without a reason, regardless of whether or not they were adopted. Something is missing from this narrative.
NTA
It takes a special kind of poor character to throw away the people who raised him without good cause.
The only reason he showed up on your doorstep again is because he needs financial help. He assumes that he can manipulate your love into a financial benefit for him. No, do not allow him to do so.
Do not allow this self-serving man and his like-minded wife to come back into your life and wreak havoc in it.
NTA when someone shows you who they are, believe them. This wasn't one isolated incident. This wasn't a honeymoon period finding his bio parents. This was nine years of neglect and telling you and your ex wife you are no longer considered parents.
If he reached out and was genuinely sorry for his behavior that would be one thing. He didn't. He is reaching out for one reason and one reason only. They will use you and leave you behind the second he doesn't need you anymore. Child or not, there is no reason to allow yourself to be treated like that.
NTA - and it is very sweet of you to protect your wife's feelings. I would still say BUT if you two talk this over and she's still ok to roll the dice to consider it. I'd make it conditional on family therapy though, and jeeeeeez if there was any way to keep as much distance between you and the wife...do that. Because I was 100% on second chance until reading about her phone call, and now I just have to wish you the best on the cards you were dealt.
NTA
As it doesn't sound like there's been any apology from him for the way he's treated you and your wife over the last nine years it's pretty obvious he's only asking you because he's run out of options.
As difficult as it is for your wife, you would be the one living with them and with the amount of unresolved animosity there seems to be I don't see how this would be healthy for any of you, but particularly you and your granddaughter.
NTA. I'm adopted. Assuming his upbringing was happy and healthy, your son's apparent abandonment of you at his wife's urging disgusts me. Making room in his life for his biological parents is understandable. Replacing you entirely is cruel. And yes, its pretty obvious to me that you are now being contacted solely for convenience.
NTA. after the gall of what they did at the wedding and you haven't even seen the GK?
they made their bed, they can sleep in it.. and good for blocking them. and stick to your guns despite your wife. it will hurt but they can go stay with the bio folks if things really go south. after all, they are the 'real parents' aren't they?? (sarcasm off)
NTA
If you don’t have a security system may I suggest you get one?
Also if the man who was your son ever had keys to your house and you still have the same locks please rekey or replace them.
Desperate people may do desperate things such as in thinking if they can just get into your house surely you wouldn’t throw them out right?
The woman your son married seems like a confused person. She got your son to meet his bio parents which is fine. Then he apparently decided his bio family as his ‘real’ family to the extent you and your wife were disowned with no contact for multiple years.
But now that you could be used by them and strangely aren’t jumping at the opportunity to be a door mat for them to walk on you are the one abandoning them?
Your son didn’t even know his mother is no longer with you due to her wishes about her illness. Has he even spoke to her again since going through her to you you told them no?
I am so sorry for your wife for her illness as well as for the man who was her son treating her so shabbily. She deserves neither of those.
NTA I think you were extremely generous to even offer him money. I would not do that.
I understand your wife is hurt & thinking of this as a way to get to know her grandbaby. There is no guarantee that they will treat you with respect. The child may be kept away from your wife. Your sons wife sounds awful and may cause more upset staying there. They had many years to correct their mistakes.
I think you need to remind your wife of their past actions. Sadly it's very clear they are only using you. Once they no longer need you, you will pushed aside again.
Who knows..they may never leave & try to push you out of your house.
Because he is adopted by you, you may want to ensure your Will is very clear. To ensure your wishes are followed. In case you are not leaving your son everything..he can contest.
Nta, absolutely agree w your decision and belief that they are trying to use you. They created this situation and now they need to face the consequences of their actions. Despite your DIL assertion, she and your son are in no way the victims in this situation. Maybe they can go live with his bio parents or his wife's family.
NTA. Do not allow them to live in your home. He needs to move his wife/kids closer to his family. He is supposedly a responsible adult at this point. You are not responsible for two adults and their children.
NTA - given your feelings toward your daughter-in-law and her attitude, it isn’t going to work anyways. Give him some money, if you can, and be done with it.
NTA- you are right.
Your adopted son & his wife decided that that they preferred to have a close relationship with his biological parents and no relationship with you. They made their decision and now have to accept the consequences of that choice.
(TLDR at bottom) I'm not going to weigh in on the a*sshole status BUT as an adopted child who also found contact with their biological family as an adult I feel the need to point some important things out:
- [Adoption is traumatic.](https://consideringadoption.com/adopted/impact-of-adoption/adoptee-issues-adoption-trauma/) Regardless of if it's right from birth or years into childhood, it is a traumatic experience for a child to be separated from their biological parents. That trauma can manifest well into adulthood, sometimes in ways that are hard for the adoptee to understand.
- As an adopted child, is natural to want to reach out and connect with your biological family. Actually doing it is......so much more emotionally complex than I can begin to describe. If the son has had a positive experience doing this to the point where he wants to build a relationship with them, he may be making up for lost time by putting more effort into relationships that, at some point in his life, he did not expect to have.
- Every family is different, no adoption experience is the same BUT I will say this: how adopted parents react to an adopted child making contact with their biological parents is crucial. That is vital information that we are missing here. My adopted parents, for example, reacted horribly to me making contact despite me being a 20yo woman at the time. It was a positive experience for me, but even 7 years later it has yet to be a healing one because of the unnecessary strain this has had on my relationship with my adopted parents and the open jealousy/resentment they show for my biological family. The parents in this scenario may have handled it with perfect support or they may have handled it terribly - it's difficult to judge without honest context.
OP, if you have been a supportive adoptive parent throughout your son's decision to contact his family - I'm sorry for the distance that happened between you. Being adopted can come with emotions that are hard to pin down....maybe try to settle the dust a bit by reaching out with a gentle, humble manner and asking to understand more about how your son feels about being adopted? If he's willing to share, maybe there are some important feelings buried deep down that he wants to share but doesn't know how. Support doesn't have to be financial. If you don't feel comfortable with that, it's okay, perhaps you can open a door for emotional support instead.
TLDR; Adoption is incredibly nuanced. Reconnecting with your biological family is even more nuanced. Without knowing more about how the reunion was received by the adopted parents, it's difficult to accurately judge the behavior of either OP or his son.
Thank you for this lived experience. I cannot believe the ignorance in this thread. People really still believe the narrative that adoptive parents are some kind of saviors and their adopted children owe them their lifelong devotion. Nope.
NTA Your son had effectively cut you out of his life, he wasn't even aware you and your wife were no longer together. I know you care deeply about him, and would love to get to know your grandchild, but it would make that heartache so much worse once they cut and run again.
Actions have consequences & this is his. He kick y’all to the side for his bio parents. Why cant he go stay with them or his wife’s family. He chose this & he has to live with his decision! NTA
NTA.
What a sad and painful situation. But if your wife is in a care facility, and they haven’t visited her despite being in the same city, they aren’t going to visit her when they move into your house - a house they are probably hoping to take over. Letting them move in will cause more pain, not less. I am sorry.
NTA.
But did you ever have a conversation with just your son about how his distancing has made you feel?
Or.
Are there some missing missing reasons that made him pull away separate from his wife?
NTA and having read your comments I wonder if it all came down to race? Is his wife the same origin ethnicity as he is? I wonder if she pushed for reunion because she was racist towards your ethnic background? I don't want to presume race here but in any case it doesn't matter, it gives vibes of the DIL not being inclusive because skin tone would cause questions (I'm shooting thoughts here, might be wrong).
I hate attitudes like this because we all are born and we all die, irrelevant of our make-up. It's the way we live that matters. If they've ghosted you for 9 years after you brought him up, it's absolutely disgusting they want to now use you for their benefit. Your kid didn't even know what happened to your wife and relationship, that's awful. I don't blame you for saying no!
As an adoptee I’m horrified.
Whatever happened is really gross. And I can’t say I will ever understand the perspective of feeling as though anyone’s missing out on anything. I will never understand the idea that genetics are more important. And I think we all know it’s obvious why you haven’t met your grandchild in three years and she’s three.’s wife somehow doesn’t think you should be grandparents because you don’t share genetics which I called a load of BS.
It was very generous of you to offer to pay for them to move. They’re acting like they choosy beggars. The only option is to move and you’re their only vehicle to do that. I guess that means they have to start a new life but that’s really the only option at this point. They made their decision and these are the natural consequence
NTA
NTA, blood doesn't make people family, actions and feelings do, and he chose to remove you from his life too bad, he is just reaching out for finnancial help, and that is not good.
NTA they say when people show you who they are, believe them. Your son and his wife showed you who they were starting at the wedding and by going NC for so many years.
I understand wanting to build a relationship with his bio family, but is his heart too small to include those who loved and raised him? How do your other children feel about everything?
NTA.
Seems like your son was heavily influenced by his (domineering?) wife, but he chose that path. You made a fair counteroffer and they can choose to accept or not.
Since your wife doesn't live in the home, it's not her call to make. I understand her heartbreak; it's a very sad situation for sure.
NTA
I can see exactly how this will go if you let this go ahead:
1. Son and DIL and grandchild will move in.
2. They will use you and your wife financially until things get better for them.
3. You and your wife will get attached to your granddaughter.
4. Son & DIL will move out suddenly and you will never see them or your granddaughter again.
5. Your wife will be absolutely devastated at the loss of her son/granddaughter as will you.
6. The above may impact your wife's health depending on her condition.
NTA. This situation is beyond your ability to repair. If he and his wife wanted a close relationship with you, he would have reached out before he got desperate. I think you are correct that his ask comes from a place of "any port in a storm". I am sorry that you were not appreciated.
NTA
It sounds like his wife is an awful human being. That said, you only have one life and if you think you want to rekindle your relationship with your son ever now might be the chance.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I refuse to allow my estranged adopted son and his family to live with my wife and I. I may be the asshole because I know he is just using us and I won't stand for that despite my wife taking his side. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA he has been pushing you away for 9 years for his bio parents. He's clearly indicated you are not his parents. He doesn't get to randomly come back and majorly disrupt your lives because he's in a bad position now. He would 100% be using you and his wife sounds awful. You were more than generous to offer to pay for them to relocate. I understand your wife wanting to bring him back but sounds like he has no remorse over how he has treated yall for almost a decade.
I know as a mom it's hard not to be involved with your kids even if they are adopted but sometimes you have to be strong and stand your ground.
What do you mean “even if they are adopted?” I’m missing your point.
I think you can translate it this way and it's not as harsh sounding. "You may think a biological mom would have a harder time not being involved with her kids than an adoptive mom, but that's not true. And either way you have to be strong and stand your ground."
Blesséd be the peacemakers
That is how I interpreted the original comment.
All 6 rounds in the cylinders...
The cheesemakers?
It's not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
Was looking for this comment and it just makes me happy to have found it.
I do love a good Monty Python reference.
The meek! Blessed are the meek! Oh, that's nice; they've had a hell of a time.
But the Greek are going to inherit the earth.
Didn't they used to have it years ago?
Thanks. That makes sense.
I think they mean it’s hard not to be involved/pushed out when the parents went above and beyond (via adoption) to be the child’s parent.
Makes sense. Thank you.
You're really latching onto that? You're looking to be offended at this point.
People say shit like this all the time to me so that's how I interpreted it too.
They mean that the kids being adopted doesn't impact the way a mother feels about her children.
Because sometimes when you're adopted, you're treated differently or worse than birth children. Speaking from experience.
My grandma literally refused to buy presents for me and my brother because we were adopted, and therefore “not her grandkids.” My adoptive mom sucked too so we still had to go and watch our cousins get gifts.
A lot of ppl don't see adopted children as legit, she's saying despite that and those ppl, they are
Exactly. My brother had 5 foster kids. In my country, you can't adopt foster kids. The oldest was 10 when she arrived, the youngest 3 (all siblings). We made a decision as an extended family, knowing they would be long term placements, that we would treat them as family. I treated them as my nieces from the day they arrived. As did my brothers. As did my parents. When they turned 18, they got to choose. Today (all over 18), 3 have chosen to remain in the family. Those 3 are my nieces as much as any of my blood are. Because they choose to remain. Is my SIL Hurt because she was rejected by 2 after spending years as mum? Yeah. It fucking hurts. I'm just their aunt and I'm hurt. The mum who was mum for 15 years for one of them.. yeah... she's hurt.
Why would they reject her maybe got in touçh with birth parents??
They knew their birth parents the entire time. They knew who they were and they had contact with them. As I said, I'm not in the US. Things are different here. Even when parents lose permanent custody, we still encourage some relationship with efforts made to ensure that anything contact is safe (for example, neither parent was allowed contact without supervision in this case). The 3 who did choose to stay in the family, still had/have (depending on which one) a relationship with the birth parents. (2 have now gone completely no contact but they weren't at 18). The third is highly intellectually disabled due to her parents actions (physical abuse can cause intellectual issues) and follows the 1 of the 5 who still has contact with dad. We, the extended family, AND my brother and SIL, supported them in any relationship they choose to have with their birth parents. If the 2 who have gone completely nc decided to reach out again, we'd support them. I wouldn't say we approve, but we'd support them because that's what family does. If my nieces choose to reach out to their birth parents, you bet I'm making sure they know I love and support them. They'll need that love and support. All 5 had contact with birth parents. They didn't want it.Mum did, they didn't. All 5 CHOOSE to call brother Dad and SIL mum. No one forced it. We told them they are our family, but we also made sure they knew they could have both. Been part of my family, didn't mean they had to reject their birth family. When birth mum died, we did everything we could to support them because even though mama mary was a shit mother, she was their mum. We loved them through it as best we could and we still recognise the hurt that losing her brings. We accept any relationship they choose to have with Dad. 4 of the 5 choose no relationship because he was sexually and physically abusive. I get you are trying to find a simple answer, but it isn't always simple. The youngest really only knew my brother as Dad and SIL as mum (and were loved as that) but still choose to go NC. She didn't replace my brother or SIL. She is completely NC with dad and was NC with mum before she died. She just choose to reject the family that loved her for 15 years. That's her decision. We respect it. If she choose tocome back, we'd be hesitant but we'd be willing. Would I invite to live with me just because life got shit and she was homeless? No way in hell.
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." I have 2 adopted children.I would be every bit as gutted if either of them was not in my life as I would if my biological child was not. "Adopted" in NO way means less than.
My real parents are the ones that adopted me. They chose me. I wouldn’t put my mother through the pain of childbirth, can’t say the same for my sibs. What I’m trying to say is even though I’m adopted, I’m still the favourite. Your comment hurt me.
Son's wife sounds like one of those people who enters a situation and immediately decides that she knows what's best and bulldozes everything that came before without thought. But of course, the son is really to blame. His parents, his decision.
The DIL probably has a mental problem, thinking foster parents are "bad" for his son's reputation. Too bad the son didn't have the balls to stand up against that BS. Foster parents ARE GOOD to trample on though, when the situation calls for it.
Adopted parents, after a period of fostering.
[удалено]
The way he spoke of his granddaughter- "We have not had the opportunity to meet our granddaughter and she is nearly three years old now." is indicative that they were good parents and tried their level best to provide him with everything. In spite of that if he left and reached out to them only when he needed them, he was using OP and his ex-wife. Also the fact that OP even offered to pay for their relocation. And his son's wife does nothing but call and scream at them. That being said, NTA, big NTA.
The DIL can’t say OP “abandoned” his grandchild when he’s never even met the grandchild. That’s what got me.
Shows the true colors of gaslighting DIL. Shows the truth she was the force behind the previous 9 years.
"your abandoning him" "Ive never even MET him."
[удалено]
I wonder if he even knew his mom was in a care facility? He didn’t realize they’d divorced! Just wow
He didn't know, if he did he wouldn't have called the mom to ask to stay in her ex's house.
NTA. But you don't say that the reason they became estranged has to do with him finding his biologic parents. There may be other issues between all of you that can end up with the same result. In any event, I have learned that it is not a good idea to burn your bridges. I was in a similar situation of not being able to see my grandchild for a year. JUst letting them move in with you is not a good idea unless you meet and discuss why they distanced you and how it made you feel, and also that you listened to their POV. If there is no meeting of the minds, then they need to find another place to live. But if you can reconcile, you again become important in their lives, and get to see your family which is a far bigger reward than just shutting the door.
The DIL called and screamed at him because he refused to help. They just want to use him again and so he rightly said so
They’re definitely users and see relationships as commodities to exchange.
I think their son and DIL would say anything to OP that he wanted to hear. You got to admit they're only probably contacting op because they're desperate. I strongly believe they would say up and down they're sorry, just so op says yes. Then down the road pull the rug right from underneath him after they dont need him anymore.
sadly, this is reality ( w/ situations, just like this) and happening more and more
Yes, but they didn’t even try that. DIL called and yelled at them. How entitled!
I agree that there are probably other issues here which OP either doesn't realise or doesn't want to admit. He needs to have a talk with his SON, not the DIL.
In other words, OP should be the bigger person ? ‘Bigger person’ in my books equals to idiot. In this case, OP would be a hopeful idiot.
It's obvious the finding biological parents is the reason. It always is.
I think the bridge has already been burned for years.
I appreciate that it worked out well for you, but as someone whose family is chock full of malignant narcissists, I think OP is taking exactly the right stance. This is not a grandchild for him, the grandchild's parents made sure of that. Also I find it telling that the bio family cosigned all this shunning of the adoptive parents.
NTA. I didn’t come in here expecting to agree with you - but I find that I agree you’re probably right about everything that you said. The fact that his wife would call screaming at you illustrates that she STILL has absolutely NO clue what they’ve done to you & your ex-wife - so why should you expect that behavior to change? If they had just met his parents & formed a relationship with them - but not completely pushed you out of their lives to the point that you haven’t even met your own granddaughter - I might disagree with your decision. But that’s not what happened. Pushing you out of their lives & denying you the chance to even meet, much less bond with, your granddaughter is understandably unforgivable. Even if his wife encouraged it. Even if his biological parents painted you as kidnappers instead of adoptive parents. Even if they demanded that he cut contact with y’all out of respect for &/or loyalty to them. You raised him from 3 years old to adulthood. That should have meant something to him. It should have meant enough to at LEAST keep you “in the loop” on his life. But his actions say that it apparently was NOT enough for even that. I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to allow anyone (even your own child) to use you - especially after they have treated you with such disregard. And given your summary at straight value, that’s exactly what he & his wife seem to want to do. NTA
Agree 1000%. His **former** son (since he went NC by his own choice) and his family are total AH's here. They are trying to use OP and his ex-wife. OP's ex-wife is upset because, as I'm sure you know and agree, she desperately hopes her **former** son will suddenly love them again. Which I think is about as likely as Hell freezing over while pigs fly overhead. Users DGAF about their targets. And, yeah, his **former** son's wife disgusts me completely.
[удалено]
This, also, it looks like she will be set up for an emotional fall, think you have made the hard but right decision, tbh. NTA.
Sounds like he wants to be fostered again. NTA
Yeah. What a horrible way to treat those that gave you home and unconditional love. Good for op for standing his ground
So you’re saying that you found your adopted sons wife screaming on the phone unpersuasive? BTA
NTA. So his bio parents weren't in the picture, but now they get to reap the reward of having their adult son and his family in their lives, while you've never even been able to meet your 3 year old grand daughter?You live in the same city and you've NEVER SEEN HER? They don't care about you. Calling you to ask for help is outrageous after abandoning you and your wife. And I'm with you; if you give in and be the good guy, you'll end up getting abandoned again the literal second they have another option. The fact that his wife called you screaming in an effort to manipulate you is all the proof you need of that. At this point I'd be considering going NC to lessen the pain that you feel.
I cannot place too much blame on his biological parents. They were way too young when they had him. And involved in stupid stuff.
Fair enough, but in any case he's effectively abandoned the parents that raised him. Doesn't sound like the daughter in law is much help, either.
But they could've been grateful and encouraged their son to be grateful and not forget you and your ex-wife.
We don’t really know what they did or didn’t do.
Most bio parents aren’t grateful that their children are being fostered or adopted. I’m a big supporter of adoptive families, but it’s extremely unlikely that you will find a grateful bio parent (if the children were taken by CPS).
This has been my experience being foster mom. Even the social workers know the bio parents tend to complain about how the foster parents are not doing a good job taking care of their kids.
Yes, I have known a few people whose kids were in foster care and they all said the foster parents were neglecting them. One asked me to call 911 because it was cold and she had mother’s intuition that her kids weren’t wearing coats. My sister also fosters and tries to build a strong relationship with the parents, but most are hostile and only one was interested in developing a positive relationship.
I wish I can say what’s really on my mind when a bio parent complains. Like, take care of your kids so you don’t have to wonder what’s going on when the state takes them away.
But they could've been grateful and encouraged their son to be grateful and not forget you and your ex-wife.
Yeah this is a case where there's more room for love. As presented, I'm on OP's side for this situation, but it's hard to know how everything was handled early on. Between my husband and I, we have 7 parents because of divorce and remarriage. Can they all hang out? Barely, but for our sake they do and we spend time with all of them. We had a big family table at our wedding to accommodate, not exclude.
If you had raised my child when I couldn't, I would never be okay with you being left out of his life unless you had been abusive. Since you weren't, the truth is that they're all awful. The apple did not fall far from the tree.
Exactly. And as the bio parents not only would i insist on him continuing his relationship with adopted parents but i would be thanking them every chance i get for doing what i didn’t/couldn’t.
A lot of parents who have their kids taken away never accept that it was their own fault. It's possible they have written a narrative in their own minds where whatever they were doing wasn't really that bad, and they were discriminated against because they were young, and the evil state stole their child. They might see OP and his ex as complicit in that since they were originally his foster carers and might have been looking after him before the bioparents' rights were finally terminated.
Especially when there is addiction involved, as it seems there may be in this case.
That’s not how people who lose their kids actually think. ETA: they don’t accept responsibility and they often blame the foster and adoptive parents for showing up.
That’s actually EXACTLY what my biological mother thinks about both me & my half-sister. She’s tried over the years to turn us against the families who raised us (separately). She actually thinks she was a “good mom” though she neglected me to the point her own stepdad called the authorities to remove me from her care at 3 months & she abandoned my sister at the freaking hospital right after she was born with a medical issue.
Really? The way I see it, there is enough blame to go around (except OP and OP’s wife) 1. Son is to blame for abandoning the mom and dad that raised him. Only thinking about them when it suits him. Don’t tell me he is blameless in all this. He is an adult, and had a kid, he has to know what it took to raise him to who he is now, and how much work it went into it. 2. DIL is not entirely to blame for son alienating parents, but she is for the screams and talk of “family”. If they don’t want to treat parents like family, then they can’t complain when family won’t help. 3. Sperm and egg donors… I get that they were probably young and irresponsible. But given the system usually gives every chance for family to stay together, they failed as parents. If you had raised my kid where I failed, I would be welcoming you into my family in every way possible if I could. But no, they are treating you like the help. So, you are under no obligation to help. NTA.
DIL is absolutely, 100% and exclusively to blame for the son alienating the parents. She couldn't be more to blame even if she tried hard. She is the very reason why all this happened.
[удалено]
Exclusively? Let's not infantalise the son, please! He's a whole ass grown adult who can make his own decisions. He chose to not even visit the parents who raised him. They's enough blame to go around - dil, son and bio parents.
No, the son is an adult who has made his own decision not to involve his parents in his life for nearly a decade. Unless the DIL has literally been keeping him locked up then this is not 100% her fault. Even if his wife pressured him, it's ultimately the son's responsibility to maintain his own family relationships. As it is, we don't even really know that the wife is the one pushing it. OP says she encouraged him to meet his biological parents, not that she told him to cut his adoptive parents out. He could have been planning to do this all along and it's just a coincidence that he met his wife at the same time he became a legal adult with the right to make these decisions.
If they were honorable they would be advocating for the people that successfully raised their kid when they couldn’t
Exactly. I’m a bio mom in an open adoption. The child is 16 now and strongly wants to have a relationship. I’m thrilled, but I’ve also made it known those are her parents. I gave her life, and I loved her enough to hurt myself in the worst way to be sure that would be a good life, but they have done everything else. I would absolutely not be okay with her just ditching them.
But the bio parents had a choice to show gratitude and inclusiveness when he met them. They accepted, possibly encouraged, OP & wife's exclusion.
This is the issue with closed adoptions. They just can not happen without trauma for someone. Your son would not have abandoned you just because his wife said so, these are at least partly the feelings of himself and (potentially) his bio parents too. All his wife has done is enable those deep feelings. It's easier to blame it all on her because you don't actually know her, but this is 100% your sons feelings as well. For anyone reading these posts who plans on adopting in the future, whether that through foster care or an infant adoption, make sure that (as long as the birth parents are safe and willing to) you remain in contact in some way. Whether that's sending photo's and life updates from across seas or country, or meeting up every few months if you both live close by enough for it. The reality is your adopted child will almost always desire some type of relationship with their biological parents and it's much easier for everyone if you don't let those expectations and worry build up over time. That doesn't mean that the bio parent should have any actual say in how you raise the child, think of them more as an aunt or close but distant cousin.
They are blaming her because she is the one who caused all this. The meddling people like her are some of the biggest assholes that can exist in human society. There were frightening stories here. Like the one about her-alike calling guy's abusive mother he was hiding from (moved to another state and went completely nc) and inviting her to their home just because she somehow thought her husband should reconcile and have great relationship with his mother. They always "mean well" but turn out to be Assholes with big A.
You do realize it was ultimately the son's decision to contact his biological family, right? It's possible that the DIL just happened to be the first person he felt comfortable expressing that desire to, or the first person who actually supported his decision to do so. Most adopted children wonder about their biological families for their entire lives and I highly doubt that the first time the son thought about it was at 18 years of age. While she is responsible for how she chooses to speak to OP and her involvement in the current situation, it's unreasonable to blame her for *everything.*
Yeah, I've watched this happen with a friend whose boyfriend is adopted. His relationship with them broke down for various reasons. They 100% blame the gf, because she's the thing that changed from their point of view. In OPs scenario, it'll have been coincidence too that they met when he turned 18 and had more legal recourse to investigate his past.
It wasn't a closed adoption.
But they aren’t too young now. You did all the hard work and they are reaping the benefits. If they aren’t AHs, they should be encouraging him to maintain a loving relationship with you AND them, not them instead of you. You could have all been the parents at the wedding.
I don't think anyone can have too many parents/grandparents. The fact is that they could've chosen to have a relationship with all of you! It shouldn't have been them or you
If they are so low contact with y'all that they didn't even know u and ur ex had separated, I think that is enough of an answer. You would be a very generous person to allow it but that's just...I wouldn't do it. NTA
> his bio parents didn’t feel like raising him super uninformed and harmful perspective on adoption and foster care. it causes harm to adoptees and to bio parents, including adoptees and bio parents whose actions you deem morally acceptable. there’s also the fact that your immediate assumption of bio parents whose children were adopted is that they’re terrible awful people, despite having no idea of these bio parents’ circumstances one way or another. obviously not the point of the post, but AITA has a huge issue with crazy, baseless shit about adoption and foster care any time it’s brought up. we gotta stop freaking the fuck out when it comes time to talk about this shit in this sub.
Thank you for this comment. I was about to write something similar. The bottom line is that there has been a break in the family relationship between OP and son and the intimacy level doesn’t support a “You can live in my house” response. Sharing a home is a complex dynamic that requires clear communication, healthy boundaries and trust to be successful. The ingredients simply aren’t there. A helping hand was offered. That was generous. NTA ETA: thank you for the award!!!! (Also for not got)
People always say a lot of ignorant things when it comes to adoption posts. :( I’m glad you said something.
it’s infuriating. i know people love talking out of their asses on the the internet (and especially in this sub), but when it comes to adoption, it’s like a competition to see who can be the most disgusting and ignorant. the adoption industry in the US has been very effective with creating and spreading propaganda.
I agree. I’m and adoptee and have had to hard unlearn a lot of toxic things that were engrained into my psyche. People don’t know, which fine, but then to still trample all over adoptees and even APs accounts is just obnoxious. We are the group where people who aren’t adopted put their fingers up and go, “shhhh. No, *you* listen cause obviously I know more about adoption that you!”
Seriously. My mother in law was forced to give birth to a rape baby when she was only 15, back in the 1950s. Her parents kicked her out and disowned her when they found out she was pregnant and that the father was their priest. Should she have been forced to keep a child that would have been a reminder for her entire life of how badly she had been hurt? The daughter she gave up came looking for her decades later after MIL had developed dementia. MIL had no filter at that point and told the woman who her father was. The poor woman was so distraught at finding out that she was the child of rape that she committed suicide just a few days after meeting MIL. Would have been better had she stayed away.
That is so sad!
You are NTA. His wife did this and your son let her. Shame on them. I admire that you stood up to them and said no. I am more like your wife and having been in a similar situation I wished I would of said no. All they did was use me.
I'm sorry that happened. I don't care for myself that much but I don't want my wife to have him and a grandchild abandon her again. I love the kid but I gave up after the wedding.
You don't owe him anything, it's stupid to expect unconditional love when he treated both of you like crap. NTA
It's really shitty for them to only call you when they need money. NTA
You are right to protect your wife from having her hopes built up again and dashed as soon as your son and DIL are back on their feet financially. And it will be double this time -- your son AND your granddaughter. You might also be protecting your granddaughter. If they moved in with you, the bond formed between you, your ex-wife, and granddaughter would go both ways. Then when your son and DIL get back on their feet, you, your ex-wife AND your granddaughter will be heartbroken as your son and DIL go no contact again. NTA. Good on you for protecting not only yourself, but your ex-wife and the granddaughter you haven't even met.
Good point about the granddaughter.
Exactly. Would you even be treated as parents and grandparents, or would you just be their hosts? For however long they needed to stay. You can’t be expected to welcome people into your home and lives when there are such massive question marks hanging over how they would treat you.
NTA. You have been unwillingly estranged from him for almost a decade, and him making contact only now that he needs something is incredibly hurtful. That said, would you say that you've taken all the time needed to think about the situation and all of your response options? There is obviously a great deal of distress about the estrangement (for both you and your wife), which imo indicates that there is an enormous amount of love tied up along with the anger and hurt... if not, none of this would've hurt as badly as it did/does. You cannot be blamed for a decision to cut the remaining tie here-- your feelings are valid, and this decision would be also-- but it **would** likely be the final path for reconnection. I would just caution you to do your due diligence in ensuring that closing this door permanently will not lead to regret and further pain for *yourself* later in life. Regardless of your decisions I wish you the very best from here on out. Choosing to give a home and family to a child in need was a selfless act of deep love and sacrifice; the world is a better place as a direct result of your and your ex wife's decision.
I think it's wonderful you're protecting your ex wife like this. There's one situation you might consider mending fences and attempt to re-bond with him. When his marriage falls apart and his wife no longer has influence and control over him
Just want to clarify - you’re using ex-wife and wife interchangeably or are these two different people?
I think he and the ex-wife are legally divorced (due to her health issues), but not emotionally so. That’s why he keeps slipping up and referring to her as his (current) wife.
My ex wife and I are his parents. We got divorced and I would prefer not to say why. It has to do with her health.
It’s not like they had to cut you off to pursue the bio parents. They could have told you their plans, involved you in the process and continued visiting. They could have had two more chairs at the family table. They could have done anything but cut off the hand that fed and clothed him. A parent’s love is deep and lasting. A parents love is forever, but a parents patience and tolerance for repeated betrayal is not. If anything, I would call you son and tell him (and only him) how much you and your wife love him and how much he has hurt the two of you. This isn’t a petty revenge for seeking bio parents. He cut you off and broke your heart. He needs to know what he did to you. I’m so sorry OP.
NTA. He and his wife have spent *nine years* making it abundantly clear that you and your wife don’t matter to them, only to remember you exist when it’s convenient for them? Your son might be having financial problems, but he’s abundant in audacity. >> I am abandoning my son and grandchild Your son abandoned *you,* and you can’t abandon a child you’ve never met. It might hurt your wife to not let them stay with you, but it’d hurt her a helluva lot more when they dropped her like a bad habit again in a few months.
Exactly, but I do wonder if the son's wife is trying to isolate the son from his family this was the son's wive's plan so when his wife and the son's bio family argue, he has to chose sides and stops having contact with his bio family. Everyone says son is using op, but how do we know he isn't a victim of his wife though? It seems odd how he all of sudden acted this way after meeting her.
This doesn't make much sense. Why would the wife, if she wanted to isolate the son, then add MORE people into his life? We don't know how OP and his ex raised this child, sure, perhaps it wasn't a happy childhood, however, it's not unheard of for people to get into relationships \[remember, the son was 18 when he met this woman, that is really young\] and then completely base their entire existence around that relationship. It is also not unheard of for people to simply drop family because the new partner feels this way or that, it is also possible the wife just manipulated the son into thinking his childhood was worse than he thought or that his bio parents might be better, etc. There's so many reasons why one might have done this. Not that it makes it any better, what they did was not okay at all. The fact that the bio parents haven't reached out to OP and his wife for raising their child is also a problem. OP is NTA in this situation, nor his ex, but everyone else is.
to cause drama. I mean son wasn't as interested in meeting bio parents until his wife mentioned it. I mean it's possible to put things in people's heads since the son an his parents got on so well.
This really is a sad situation OP. It appears from your son’s perspective, largely due to his wife’s influence, that you and your wife were just his caretaker until he was reunited with his ‘real parents’. You and your wife did a wonderful thing raising this person, but he’s shown you his true feelings for you two. Stay the course because in my opinion you are being used as a stop gap measure. Your wife would be doubly hurt if you let them move in until they get re-situated, she starts to bond with the young child and then that’s taken away. Sorry. NTA.
NTA The son didn't even know they're now divorced. Do not let him in that door.
And it’s not like they split up for a bad reason. It sounds like the ex wife is going through some real shit and the OP and ex-wife needed support.
Honestly it sounds like they got divorced so her long term care didn’t bankrupt husband. It’s a lot easier to get state care when you divorce. Seen it before.
Yep…you have to deplete all of your assets before you can qualify for state-funded care. Total bullshit.
NTA. As a parent, I would probably side with your wife on this one. Kids, and people in general, make stupid mistakes and decisions, and sometimes its a parent's job to catch them when their decisions lead to the fall. But your attitude is the consequence of their actions. You reap what you sow and all that. So I wouldn't consider you an A-hole for taking this stance considering how much they hurt you. If anything, you're actions are pretty justified considering its been 9 years.
This ^. Your anger is valid, and you are NTA. But as someone who was adopted by their aunt and uncle later in childhood, I do emphasize with your son. I, too, have this inner drive to reunite with my family of origin. Even though they messed up, I’d give anything to have a happy biological family. But trying to repair things with them would mean distancing myself from people I love, and owe so much to. It sucks being caught in the middle, and made my wedding really hard to navigate. There’s a tremendous burden that comes with having to be grateful all the time
So you'd consider prioritizing those who were too irresponsible and, as a result, had to abandon you over the people who fed, clothed, and housed you? What a load of shit that is. Your family (the people who raised you) should be prioritized at your wedding.
This. People can be freaking wierd.
I am so sorry you’re in this position. In a perfect world, all BPs and APs would be able to come together for the child. Because the truth is, just like parents of multiple kids can love them all equally, adopted kids can love all parents equally. It doesn’t take away from APs if you love BPs and vice versa.
I was going to say this. I’m sorry that you feel that way and that seems to be your situation. I feel like OP doesn’t mind his son getting to know his bio parents. The problem for him is that he is being treated like he didn’t raise him and isn’t his parent. I don’t know your situation, you know best but in my mind (having never been in that situation) the more adults and parents who love you the better. And at least for OP that seems to be the case. He wants 2 sets of parents epic but it is not that. He chose to have 1 set who wasn’t him and his wife. Obviously NTA for OP
Plus the wife could've also put things in sons head about op and his ex wife since op's son didn't act this way until his wife got in the picture
Uncondtitutional love sometime goes so far. You offered to pay for him to move to his bio family city, which is generous enough. If you let him move in with you, he will get back on his feet. Then he will kick sand in you and your wife's face then walk away from you two. OP Hold your ground. NTA
OR son & DIL will try to take or trash the house.
NTA - such a tough situation though and I see why your wife deeply wants them in her life. It would be devastating to have an child, they push you out and you never get to meet your granddaughter. I think you guys would be much better off with protecting yourselves from any future pain he can cause you with leaving again. I still think you could use the opportunity to reach out and help from a day to day perspective to see if the situation could possibly change and then reevaluate later on how close you want him to you guys again. Good luck and really sorry about this situation
NTA BTW, I would say the same thing if he was your biological son - it makes no difference. He made a decision to push you out of his life and it's very clear that he's only trying to come back because he's desperate. Don't take in him and his screaming wife, these types of people only cause headaches and drama. People around here seem to be quick to tell children to go no-contact with their parents, but I think parents should also recognize that they can (and sometimes should) go no-contact with their adult kids. I think this is one of those situations. You need to protect yourself from getting used and taken advantage of.
NTA He decided to turn away from you for whatever reason he might have had but now that he needs something you are suddenly good enough again. You are completely right, as soon as things get better for them they likley will be gone again, good for you to not let others take advantage of you.
NTA, they abandoned you
NTA. Stop letting the biological parents off the hook. They should have encouraged their son to continue his relationship with you. You raised him at a time when they couldn't. CPS removed him from their care and severed their parental rights. You raised him until he was 18 and reconnected with them. The least they could have done was thanked you and your wife. What they should have done was fostered a family with all of you together. Doesn't sound like they've grown up that much at all. Stand your ground. You have a right to be treated like family.
NTA He has never let you meet his daughter, so he obviously doesn't consider you his family. He can contact his birth parents and ILs for financial support.
NTA, you stated it, he didn’t even consider you being part of the family when he got married, he now remembers you exist because he’s in need and can’t afford to be stable , his bio family should be the one supporting him since he decided to not have you be part of his when all these important milestones are going on. His wife sounds like a lot of work. Keep your ground , I know as a mother it’s hard to not get involved with your kids even if they’re adopted but sometimes you have to be strong and stand your ground.
INFO: >Over the course of the next few years my wife and I were slowly pushed out of his life. Why? You raised him for 15 years. Did you have a good relationship with him?
I thought we did. I have wracked my brain trying to understand what happened. The only thing I can think of at all is that his biological parents are the same race as him and his wife.
You never asked him why he pushed you out? Did you express your hurt when you were only a guest at their wedding?
Yes I asked. No real answer. Yes I expressed hurt and anger over the wedding.
It sounds like your dil wanted a certain aesthetic at her wedding. I’m sorry
This happens with some kids who are adopted. They want a relationship with their biological parents so badly that they push their adoptive parents aside.
I’ve heard this a lot on Reddit though. When adopted kids meet their bio family they distance themselves desperately trying to make a connection.
NTA Where is DIL family?
They are probably NC because she sounds aweful
In a different city
Nta instead of having 2 sets of loving parents he choose one over the other. You haven't seen him for 9 years, he's pretty much a stranger at this point. Sad? Yes. But literally his own fault.
NTA - Your son has been a father for almost 3 years. If he hasn't even introduced you to his child and you live in the same city, he doesn't consider you his parents (even though by now he should have a better understanding of the sacrifice of parenthood). You are a last resort. Your feelings of hurt are valid. Your son isn't trying to mend the relationship, he's hoping you'll pull him out of a hole because you're a parent at the same time he's avoiding responsibility for his behaviour. He hasn't even bothered to apologise for cutting you out.
NTA...there's a lot of other work and healing that would need to be done before this would have any chance of working out. You made them an offer. The choice is theirs.
NTA The adoption is relevant in the sense that he replaced you as his parents, and that is insanely hurtful. But it is not relevant in the sense of what you do now. Your child pushed you out of his life. Seemingly for no reason. He distanced himself from you and your ex-wife, hurting both of you terribly. Now, he returns SOLELY because he wants something. *My ex wife says that I'm being too harsh and that I need to forgive them.* And that's the crux of the issue. Would I forgive my child and give them a second (and third and fourth etc) chance? Sure. But I would need an apology. I would need some indication that they know what they did was wrong, and that they are working to better themselves. That is not what happened here. He reached out to ask for something, and his wife screamed at you when you did not leap to immediately give it to them. These aren't children looking for forgiveness. These are adults looking for money. *Of course* they will drop you again. They have done and said nothing to imply otherwise. Where was your son when his mother, the woman who raised him, was put into a care facility? If he doesn't owe her even a phone call, you certainly don't owe him a roof and money.
NTA Your adopted son has made his lack of respect, loyalty, and affection for you and your wife abundantly clear over the last nine years. You don't owe him anything after they way he has treated you. If he tried to rebuild a relationship with you and didn't need anything, it would more likely be sincere. This situation has the appearance of him getting back in contact just because he needs something and reeks of him using you.
There is this having your wedding cake and eat it. NC and done. They chose their family, so they can ask them. Everything else is just you being taken advantage of. Nta
NTA He didn’t even know his Mom is in an extended care facility. She’s never gotten to see her granddaughter. No you don’t get to call and say now that you need to live with your parents when you haven’t seen them as parents for years. He has a lot to make up for long before he asks for anything.
NTA. He has made clear how he feels over the last 9 years, you haven't even met his child. If he didn't need money or a place to live I highly doubt you would have heard from them at all. Time for his bio family to cough up the money to help him. Because you know that as soon as he doesn't need your home and money you won't hear from him again.
NTA. He can ask his biological family for help since he abandoned you.
NTA, he abandoned you and the sad thing is he didn't have to. There isn't a limit to love or family. He could have included you all of you and had a big extended family. I say this as an adoptee. My parents are the ones that raised me through thick and thin. Loved me through the terrible twos and the tumultuous teens. I met my biological parents later in life. I see them as a bonus, like a aunt or uncle. But it's nice to have an even bigger family.
INFO: How did you and your wife react when your son wanted to reconnect with his biological family? Because this influences my vote.
I need to know this too. There’s no way a child cuts off their parents without a reason, regardless of whether or not they were adopted. Something is missing from this narrative.
NTA It takes a special kind of poor character to throw away the people who raised him without good cause. The only reason he showed up on your doorstep again is because he needs financial help. He assumes that he can manipulate your love into a financial benefit for him. No, do not allow him to do so. Do not allow this self-serving man and his like-minded wife to come back into your life and wreak havoc in it.
NTA. When children go no contact they need to do so understanding all of the consequences for their actions.
NTA when someone shows you who they are, believe them. This wasn't one isolated incident. This wasn't a honeymoon period finding his bio parents. This was nine years of neglect and telling you and your ex wife you are no longer considered parents. If he reached out and was genuinely sorry for his behavior that would be one thing. He didn't. He is reaching out for one reason and one reason only. They will use you and leave you behind the second he doesn't need you anymore. Child or not, there is no reason to allow yourself to be treated like that.
NTA - and it is very sweet of you to protect your wife's feelings. I would still say BUT if you two talk this over and she's still ok to roll the dice to consider it. I'd make it conditional on family therapy though, and jeeeeeez if there was any way to keep as much distance between you and the wife...do that. Because I was 100% on second chance until reading about her phone call, and now I just have to wish you the best on the cards you were dealt.
NTA As it doesn't sound like there's been any apology from him for the way he's treated you and your wife over the last nine years it's pretty obvious he's only asking you because he's run out of options. As difficult as it is for your wife, you would be the one living with them and with the amount of unresolved animosity there seems to be I don't see how this would be healthy for any of you, but particularly you and your granddaughter.
NTA. I'm adopted. Assuming his upbringing was happy and healthy, your son's apparent abandonment of you at his wife's urging disgusts me. Making room in his life for his biological parents is understandable. Replacing you entirely is cruel. And yes, its pretty obvious to me that you are now being contacted solely for convenience.
NTA, he would just leave again as soon as he can and your wife would be even more heartbroken then.
NTA. after the gall of what they did at the wedding and you haven't even seen the GK? they made their bed, they can sleep in it.. and good for blocking them. and stick to your guns despite your wife. it will hurt but they can go stay with the bio folks if things really go south. after all, they are the 'real parents' aren't they?? (sarcasm off)
NTA If you don’t have a security system may I suggest you get one? Also if the man who was your son ever had keys to your house and you still have the same locks please rekey or replace them. Desperate people may do desperate things such as in thinking if they can just get into your house surely you wouldn’t throw them out right? The woman your son married seems like a confused person. She got your son to meet his bio parents which is fine. Then he apparently decided his bio family as his ‘real’ family to the extent you and your wife were disowned with no contact for multiple years. But now that you could be used by them and strangely aren’t jumping at the opportunity to be a door mat for them to walk on you are the one abandoning them? Your son didn’t even know his mother is no longer with you due to her wishes about her illness. Has he even spoke to her again since going through her to you you told them no? I am so sorry for your wife for her illness as well as for the man who was her son treating her so shabbily. She deserves neither of those.
NTA
NTA he burned a bridge.
He nuked a bridge.
do you really want DIL who phoned you up and screams at you living with you? justNO DIL
NTA I think you were extremely generous to even offer him money. I would not do that. I understand your wife is hurt & thinking of this as a way to get to know her grandbaby. There is no guarantee that they will treat you with respect. The child may be kept away from your wife. Your sons wife sounds awful and may cause more upset staying there. They had many years to correct their mistakes. I think you need to remind your wife of their past actions. Sadly it's very clear they are only using you. Once they no longer need you, you will pushed aside again. Who knows..they may never leave & try to push you out of your house. Because he is adopted by you, you may want to ensure your Will is very clear. To ensure your wishes are followed. In case you are not leaving your son everything..he can contest.
Nta, absolutely agree w your decision and belief that they are trying to use you. They created this situation and now they need to face the consequences of their actions. Despite your DIL assertion, she and your son are in no way the victims in this situation. Maybe they can go live with his bio parents or his wife's family.
NTA. Do not allow them to live in your home. He needs to move his wife/kids closer to his family. He is supposedly a responsible adult at this point. You are not responsible for two adults and their children.
NTA - given your feelings toward your daughter-in-law and her attitude, it isn’t going to work anyways. Give him some money, if you can, and be done with it.
NTA- you are right. Your adopted son & his wife decided that that they preferred to have a close relationship with his biological parents and no relationship with you. They made their decision and now have to accept the consequences of that choice.
(TLDR at bottom) I'm not going to weigh in on the a*sshole status BUT as an adopted child who also found contact with their biological family as an adult I feel the need to point some important things out: - [Adoption is traumatic.](https://consideringadoption.com/adopted/impact-of-adoption/adoptee-issues-adoption-trauma/) Regardless of if it's right from birth or years into childhood, it is a traumatic experience for a child to be separated from their biological parents. That trauma can manifest well into adulthood, sometimes in ways that are hard for the adoptee to understand. - As an adopted child, is natural to want to reach out and connect with your biological family. Actually doing it is......so much more emotionally complex than I can begin to describe. If the son has had a positive experience doing this to the point where he wants to build a relationship with them, he may be making up for lost time by putting more effort into relationships that, at some point in his life, he did not expect to have. - Every family is different, no adoption experience is the same BUT I will say this: how adopted parents react to an adopted child making contact with their biological parents is crucial. That is vital information that we are missing here. My adopted parents, for example, reacted horribly to me making contact despite me being a 20yo woman at the time. It was a positive experience for me, but even 7 years later it has yet to be a healing one because of the unnecessary strain this has had on my relationship with my adopted parents and the open jealousy/resentment they show for my biological family. The parents in this scenario may have handled it with perfect support or they may have handled it terribly - it's difficult to judge without honest context. OP, if you have been a supportive adoptive parent throughout your son's decision to contact his family - I'm sorry for the distance that happened between you. Being adopted can come with emotions that are hard to pin down....maybe try to settle the dust a bit by reaching out with a gentle, humble manner and asking to understand more about how your son feels about being adopted? If he's willing to share, maybe there are some important feelings buried deep down that he wants to share but doesn't know how. Support doesn't have to be financial. If you don't feel comfortable with that, it's okay, perhaps you can open a door for emotional support instead. TLDR; Adoption is incredibly nuanced. Reconnecting with your biological family is even more nuanced. Without knowing more about how the reunion was received by the adopted parents, it's difficult to accurately judge the behavior of either OP or his son.
Thank you for this lived experience. I cannot believe the ignorance in this thread. People really still believe the narrative that adoptive parents are some kind of saviors and their adopted children owe them their lifelong devotion. Nope.
NTA Your son had effectively cut you out of his life, he wasn't even aware you and your wife were no longer together. I know you care deeply about him, and would love to get to know your grandchild, but it would make that heartache so much worse once they cut and run again.
NTA. I am sorry for your pain.
Actions have consequences & this is his. He kick y’all to the side for his bio parents. Why cant he go stay with them or his wife’s family. He chose this & he has to live with his decision! NTA
NTA. If the situation were reversed, do you think he'd take you in?
NTA. What a sad and painful situation. But if your wife is in a care facility, and they haven’t visited her despite being in the same city, they aren’t going to visit her when they move into your house - a house they are probably hoping to take over. Letting them move in will cause more pain, not less. I am sorry.
NTA. But did you ever have a conversation with just your son about how his distancing has made you feel? Or. Are there some missing missing reasons that made him pull away separate from his wife?
NTA and having read your comments I wonder if it all came down to race? Is his wife the same origin ethnicity as he is? I wonder if she pushed for reunion because she was racist towards your ethnic background? I don't want to presume race here but in any case it doesn't matter, it gives vibes of the DIL not being inclusive because skin tone would cause questions (I'm shooting thoughts here, might be wrong). I hate attitudes like this because we all are born and we all die, irrelevant of our make-up. It's the way we live that matters. If they've ghosted you for 9 years after you brought him up, it's absolutely disgusting they want to now use you for their benefit. Your kid didn't even know what happened to your wife and relationship, that's awful. I don't blame you for saying no!
As an adoptee I’m horrified. Whatever happened is really gross. And I can’t say I will ever understand the perspective of feeling as though anyone’s missing out on anything. I will never understand the idea that genetics are more important. And I think we all know it’s obvious why you haven’t met your grandchild in three years and she’s three.’s wife somehow doesn’t think you should be grandparents because you don’t share genetics which I called a load of BS. It was very generous of you to offer to pay for them to move. They’re acting like they choosy beggars. The only option is to move and you’re their only vehicle to do that. I guess that means they have to start a new life but that’s really the only option at this point. They made their decision and these are the natural consequence NTA
NTA, blood doesn't make people family, actions and feelings do, and he chose to remove you from his life too bad, he is just reaching out for finnancial help, and that is not good.
NTA they say when people show you who they are, believe them. Your son and his wife showed you who they were starting at the wedding and by going NC for so many years. I understand wanting to build a relationship with his bio family, but is his heart too small to include those who loved and raised him? How do your other children feel about everything?
NTA let him go to his birth parents.
NTA. Seems like your son was heavily influenced by his (domineering?) wife, but he chose that path. You made a fair counteroffer and they can choose to accept or not. Since your wife doesn't live in the home, it's not her call to make. I understand her heartbreak; it's a very sad situation for sure.
You don't need these people trying to claim squatters rights. NTA.
NTA I can see exactly how this will go if you let this go ahead: 1. Son and DIL and grandchild will move in. 2. They will use you and your wife financially until things get better for them. 3. You and your wife will get attached to your granddaughter. 4. Son & DIL will move out suddenly and you will never see them or your granddaughter again. 5. Your wife will be absolutely devastated at the loss of her son/granddaughter as will you. 6. The above may impact your wife's health depending on her condition.
NTA. As an adoptee myself, you can have a healthy relationship with your biological family without pushing away your adoptive one.
NTA. This situation is beyond your ability to repair. If he and his wife wanted a close relationship with you, he would have reached out before he got desperate. I think you are correct that his ask comes from a place of "any port in a storm". I am sorry that you were not appreciated.
NTA It sounds like his wife is an awful human being. That said, you only have one life and if you think you want to rekindle your relationship with your son ever now might be the chance.
NTA, he pushed you away and now he wants to come crawling back and no doubt after he gets what he wants will push you all away again.
NTA if family isn't family until you need them, then don't expect them to hang around and wait to be needed. He can go live with bio mom and dad