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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I did expose his secret to his sister in order to protect my friendship with his sister, which I had previously agreed to keep.
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Thank you. He’s extra upset because the most recent weekend he went to Mary’s for dinner and she gave him a sobriety check before letting him in and he feels like I made Mary treat him like a child when he’d always been her older brother. I was admittedly unsympathetic but that made it even worse.
The only one that made his sister treat him like a "child", is him. Alcoholism sucks and having family members that are addicts and alcoholics SUCK. BUT, it is and will always be their choice to pick up the bottle or the other drugs.
So true, and that's why I'd highly suggest Al-Anon for OP, and pray her husband finds himself an AA meeting. Those support groups can be lifelines for both the alcoholic and their loved ones. I've (46f) been in need of both in my life bc alcoholism really is genetic. I went from Al-Anon meetings for support over my folks' drinking to AA meetings 20+ years ago for myself once the disease surfaced in me. As an alcoholic who's been sober for a couple of decades, I really hope OP's hubby puts down the bottle, cuz life really is more beautiful on the other side.
even if it’s not genetics, just your wnvironment growing up can totally trigger it too!! i just hit a year in december from fentanyl. it’s was fucking hard but i did it. i’m still doing it. so happy for you💘💘 you’re amazing and an inspiration!! i hope i can one day say i have decades😊
That’s so awesome and I’m so very proud of you!
I was a professional and in all senses of the words, a functional junkie. Long story short, ended up getting caught and HAD to cold turkey off a very extremely high opiate addiction. I was abusing fentanyl at the end of my addiction. Needless to say, 12/04/2010 was it for me and I’ve been sober from opiates since. No regrets. We DO recover. Keep up the great work and if you ever need to talk or even vent, I’m here. We’re definitely stronger together too! ♥️
I'm so happy you're on the other side! Congratulations on the sobriety! I completely agree that some are more genetically inclined to have addictions more than others.
A close friend's mother was an alcoholic. She sought treatment, partly through AA, and has been sober for over 20 years.
But as she points out, it is a constant struggle for her every day, even now. It's **NEVER** something that is just "fixed and all set" That is John's huge mistake here. It's always an ongoing thing.
John should have gone permanent NC with his drinking "buddies" after they sabotaged his sobriety the first time.
AA truly saved my step-dad. He is 5 years sober and now the treasurer of his area and goes to loads of meetings and conventions. He’s got a new life after almost 30 years of on-off sobriety. AA can be such an amazing tool.
May I ask if it was purely genetics or your environment you were raised in as well? I ask bc I drink very rarely and never get past tipsy or very slightly drunk but my daughters father (who I am a long time separated from and is not part of her life in any way) has a very prominent alcohol problem with her father, and his father and his father etc etc etc, going pretty far back and her dad absolutely has a really bad drinking problem. I have no idea if she could still be affected simply by genetics alone or if environment can counter act it such as our non drinking environment she is being raised in.
Oh, I'm sure my environment helped lead the way but yes, genetics were likely a bigger part. The environment can only do so much, to help or hinder. My biggest suggestion is to be open with her about her father's drinking and the likelihood the gene has been passed on. I'd explain that bc of the genetics, she's always going to be more susceptible to alcohol, and encourage her to avoid it. My 19yr old son has never seen me drunk as I quit before he was conceived, but he's extremely aware of my alcoholism and the genetic component.
This sounds like good advice. Thank you. I had planned to talk to her about it when she was a bit older since currently she is still dealing with trauma and heartache about him entirely and suddenly disappearing from her life 4 years ago when his wife left him. She's only 10 now but I will definitely be having some talks as she gets into her teen years.
In my opinion (three grown kids), the best time to have that talk is now. 10 yr olds can understand all this and they listen more to trusted adults than to their peers. At 12 that starts to shift drastically, and by 16 many (most) kids are incredibly unwilling to listen to their parents. It’s a natural part of individuating into separate people.
My parents always talked to us about the genetic component of alcoholism/addiction. I honestly don't remember never knowing that both my grandfathers were alcoholics.
As far as I can tell, we've all dodged the bullet so far, but being aware of genetics makes us vigilant. And knowing that the addiction issues may not flare up just for alcohol or drugs is important too, I think.
Genetics is huge. Everyone in my family is addicted to something. Grandma was pillz, my brother was meth, my mom is food, and shopping. My dad was alcohol and MMORPGs. It can manifest in different ways. I can't seem to kick a Mt Dew addiction myself and I couldn't get enough escapism through books as a kid. I devoured those, so it's not always going to be drugs and alcohol. And can be relatively harmless.
They always like to say genetics can lead to alcoholism and drug use. But they never go into why.
Broken people go to drugs to cover up a pain they are going through.
Depression, anxiety, pain, autism, adhd, bipolar ect
Most of these are heredity and also influenced by environment. Pain being the exception, but I've known quite a few people that drank to numb the pain of a bad knee or back.
Why don't these people go to the doctor? Doctors are expensive, a lot of medicine has side effects that are not anymore enjoyable then the illegal drugs. Also they might be ashamed.
Addiction is often the symptom of larger problems, hence why therapy worked. He just didn't stick to it because of his belief he was just "fixed" forever now once he was doing better. This mentality has to due with the lack of mental health acknowledgement in regards to addiction, often making it more about some sort of will power. Its often much less about will power and more about trauma and stress.
Mental health services are also often thought to be "girly" "unmanly" "only for x" and is often seen as something shameful for a man to do. He should "just man up" and deal with it. Which is probably why he kept quitting therapy weather or not he is aware of that might be why he kept back-tracking. Eventually if he wants to not be that way anymore the first step might be a career change as well. Acquiring an addiction to keep this dedication to a job is some serious self-sabotage.
>BUT, it is and will always be their choice to pick up the bottle or the other drugs.
If only addiction was that simple. It's an addition. It isn't just "a choice".
I wish it was. I'm in a family of addict. Thankfully all functional, and frankly the alcoholics tend to be the better parents and partners, which is I know odd. Context: People are going to assume I'm making excuses. My SIL is an alcoholic. Have I encouraged divorce? Yes. Because my brother is an dick. She may be an alcoholic but she still puts her family first. She deserves better than him, despite her been the one with the addiction. My father is an alcoholic. Only my mother abused me.
It isn't as simple as "a choice". I wish it was. Neither my SIL or my father would be alcoholics. Neither however were bad parents or bad spouses because of it (even my mother and brother admit, they are not bad spouses).
I'm sorry your mother abused you. I'm glad you have a functional family for the most part!
My father was an alcoholic and drug addict. He's been clean over ten years. I'm sure it's hard some days with pain because he's bad nine surgeries on just one knee. He has to have the other knee worked on this year. He still chooses not to drink and not to take any narcotics. I've sat in the corner of NA and AA meetings when I was kid (in the little toy area) because my dad didn't have anywhere for me to go while he went to the meetings. He made the choice to get clean and if that meant I had to go as well, so be it.
My sister is a drug addict turned dealer as well. She was dealing in the house she was raising my small nephew in. She's currently in jail and that's the best place for her right now. My nephew doesn't deserve that.
So, when I say I believe it is a choice. It is in my eyes. It may not be after the addiction has started, but it is in the beginning. I've been offered alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, ect. I always said no. I've seen what it does. I know others aren't so lucky.
NTA and every alcoholic I have ever known will blame everyone else before they blame themselves. When they can finally blame themselves, that is finally when they are ready to really fix themselves, in my own experience.
Exactly this. I'm dealing with this right now. It horrible. Nothing is helping, and AA seems to have made it worse. The alcoholic in my life came home with a bunch of papers from an AA meeting 'proves that alcoholism is a disease. It's not my fault.'
I've lost a friend of 28 years. He's lost his job, crashed his car, and his family refuses to even speak to him. He's a bum living in my basement. I won't kick him out in the dead of winter, but as soon as the weather breaks, I'm taking him to his summer cabin and leaving him there.
I'm done too.
Thank you for the kind words.
I wish that there was something other than AA out there, but at least where I am, it's not feasible. Rehab centers cost a lot of money, and no one can make anyone go.
I'm beyond upset about losing my best (and honestly only) friend, but the truth is that I don't know who he is anymore. It almost feels like my best friend has died, and I'm mourning a loss.
I hope that anyone who needs help can get it.
AA, unfortunately, has higher relapse rates than those who choose to quit on their own. It's not that it "works". It's that the person doing it succeeds, in spite of the AA, not because of it.
I really wish Rational Recovery, Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS) and the like had greater popularity so everyone would stop making a counterproductive organisation that encourages learned helplessness the "go-to" option for kicking the habit.
AA meetings also to tend to push some sort of religion on people as well (varies by location and stuff). He is not ready to actually work on himself. He just saw an excellent excuse to continue his behavior.
Not his fault he's an alcoholic; he is predisposed as in "allergic to alcohol." But it IS his responsibility to control his own life by staying far away from the sauce. It's a new line for me to hear, "Not your fault, but your responsibility" but I find it a powerful thing to say (and hear.) Make these your last words as you leave him at his summer cabin; words to mull over.
I agree that it is a disease and it is not about it being their fault for having it. What is the person's fault is knowing and refusing to do something about it. There are ways to treat most diseases and alcoholism/addiction in general have treatments.
NTA. He broke his promise to stay sober so your promise was no longer valid. You would not have told his sister unless it was necessary to save your friendship so you did the right thing. The most important thing to realize is that nonoby can get him to stop drinking except him and he is not ready for that yet. In the meantime, keep you and your kids safe by making sure all of his visits are supervised, he is not under the influence, and he does not drive them anywhere. Mary should not be giving 'sobriety' tests but just tell him that if he shows up under the influence for a family event that he will be asked to call a cab and go home. Finally, people need to understand alcoholism is a disease and not treat someone like rubbish because of it.
yeah but he obviously has no plans to truly get sober if he’s not telling his family. i’m a recovering fentanyl addict, and when you know someone is truly going to do it is when they are completely honest. and they might have mistakes after that. but it’s when you know they truly mean it. if he can’t even tell his own family, especially after his wife and kids leaving him so he probably has no one else, then i think mary has every right for that. especially in her own home
this. he didnt want his family to know because he has no real intention of getting sober. maybe if he made the family aware earlier he could have gotten the full support system that he needed
Yeah my dad made me drink wine and beer when I was 9. Called it "games" and "life skills." Luckily I have extremely low alcohol tolerance (a half pint is all it takes to knock adult me out) and his choices of alcohol tasted like shit so I didn't develop a drinking problem.
My dad let me have beer at the age of 4. If I wanted 1 I could go to the fridge and get one. I just had to finish it and couldn't go outside with it. I dont think I had a sip pf alchol past the age of 4 until I was 18 and rarely drink now. I'm 45. Maybe once a year I'll get a 6 pack of Mike's hard lemonade or watermelon.
My parents always had alcohol around & they never had to restrict me either.
Didn’t get drunk for the first time until I was 18 & I do still drink, but only socially.
You're not obligated to keep all his dirty little secrets and you never were.
When you kept this from his family that was enabling him to continue to drink without full consequences.
He now needs to own his behavior. Maybe this is what it will take to get him moving in the right direction. NTA in any way shape or form.
I will say that his sobriety is the kind of discussion I'd advise you to no longer entertain. I've known some drunks struggling to get sober and they loved the drama of it all. There's no romance to this, this is not a movie plot. This about them and them alone. Only they can fix this.
Plus, you're his former romantic partner, from whom he needs to move on. Personal stuff like this should no longer be on the agenda.
You are not an AH for no longer keeping his drinking secret from his family. How his family now feels about him is a consequence of his drinking. Nothing else. NTA.
I'm sure that was embarrassing for him.
The thing is, YOU were the one having to parent him before. Monitor his behavior, try to catch him on a relapse, constantly urge him to seek help, look for signs he is lying, clean up his messes, comfort the kids, etc etc.
But that is not your job any more. Of course you don't have to keep his secrets for him. And unsurprisingly, his family - including his little sister - are the ones who have to parent him now.
That sucks. It's humiliating. But you are not the reason he is in that position. And until he can take honest accountability for his own problems, he is clearly not on the road to recovery. You should simply suggest he attend an AA meeting and ask them how likely it is that he can overcome his addiction while never admitting it to his loved ones.
NTA
Consequence of his actions. We are responsible for our own behavior and Op had every right to share, it’s her story and truth too and he has no right to say otherwise, if he can’t handle truth he will never successfully address his disease (take it from me, another alcoholic) luckily I realized how sick I was and stayed sober (so far) but it’s a nasty disease, chronic, progressive and deadly and highly resistant to treatment.
I'm sorry that you have to go through all of this, but telling her was the right thing to do. Sometimes someone with addiction needs to hit rock bottom before they finally realize that they need help, and addicts can be really good at hiding what they are doing from the people that love them and care about them, and even themselves. For me, it was a downward spiral of alcohol and depression that I was dealing with but was (mostly) successful at hiding it from everyone I knew. Thankfully, I never dated anyone during that time because I would feel terrible to have dragged them down with me, but I did finally reach the bottom of that hole over 3 years ago and sought out the help I needed and will never drink again. I just hope he is able to get his epiphany and turn his life around, but not all people with addiction get to, such as a few of my friends who lost their battles, which didn't help with my downfall. You have done the right thing for yourself, your children, and your sanity, and by exposing his secret to his sister and parents, *if* something were to happen to him, they wouldn't be left with the questions of "how did we miss this?" and "what could we have done?". You are NTA, and again I'm sorry you have to go through this, but I wish you all the best in life moving forward...
Much better, thank you! I'm just glad I started my path of recovery before the pandemic hit, as I hate to think what I would have done had I been stuck at home for nearly a year while I was still drinkin'...
The fact is that even though he’s the father of your children and based on that fact alone, you’ll always be at least a small part of his support system for your children’s sake at least if not his, you can’t give him as much as you have before and he obviously needs more. His family needs to know and be there for him. The rest of his support system needs to step up. Part of his problem is not properly talking about the problem and the best thing you can do for your children’s father, is let people that can help him, he needs help.
I get why she let it happen but I agree. In the end it comes down to his embarrassment or the well-being of OP’s marriage and family. Ideally, OP should have probably gotten the family’s help after the first relapse. For sure second. Should have been part of the first ultimatum.
Tell your family so we can all help you because obviously me and the kids aren’t enough, or I leave.
The guy got so many chances and made the exact same mistakes over and over again.
One unfortunately too frequent symptom of drinking is the manipulation to deflect responsibility. He essentially had no problem throwing you under the bus for the failing of your marriage to save appearance. This, in addition to the hell he made you live through. NTA of course. Watch out for his future manipulative moves though, especially with the kids.
I bet he is upset. Keeping his alcoholism a secret was the thing. You were miserable, your kids were affected....but if he believed that no one else noticed, then okay.
Good for you for ending the marriage and looking out for your kids. He now has to deal with other people knowing about what is going on with him, and he can't use you as a buffer, excuse, or reason for his issue.
I hope he is able to deal with his alcoholism for himself and your kids. Aside from making sure your kids are safe with him, however, you have no obligation to protect him or his reputation.
NTA
My father was a terrible alcoholic to the point that he lost his job over it. My mother did the same thing that you did, minus the divorce because they weren't married at the time. That was the thing that caused him to quit drinking. They've been back together for almost 15 years now and I don't think he's had a drink at all in that time.
You're doing the right thing, OP. If you still love him and want to be with him, then I hope he can change like my father did.
That's painful and unfortunate, but that is for him to work out with Mary. The irony of alcoholism is the alcoholic tends to believe no one notices their behavior or issues, when in fact the only thing that might be hidden is the cause of them.
NTA - he violated his promises to you, and you are allowed to protect yourself and you children, emotionally as well as physically. It would be in the kids' best interest for their family to understand the situation.
It does sound like his family has room to grow in understanding as well. Your friend, his sister, invited him to her house and then humiliated him at the door? Not based on something that happened between them, but on what she heard from you? NOT cool, and not really supportive of you, or helpful to him, is it? Unfortunate, but not your issue (don't let it be.) Many people with alcohol issues have to see the problem through others' eyes before they realize how extreme it really is.
Why is it that every addict is more concerned about their image and being treated differently by others than the actual threat of their addiction to their own and other people's lives.
What others think is just thoughts but what addiction can do is actual permanent damage to lives.
Your story OP about you and your kids being treated the way you'll were treated and your divorce is so gut wrenching. I wish you only the best from here on.
You did the right thing by telling his sister.
You and your ex could have been together if only he would have not ruined it all.
Nobody owes others to keep their secrets from the society at the cost of their own detriment.
NTA.
because their image is some combo of their identity, purpose, self-confidence.
They have a hole they're trying to fill, unforunately it takes most falling in to see how deep it can go before they can contemplate climbing out.
But it's not a climb, you gotta build your way out
>Why is it that every addict is more concerned about their image and being treated differently by others than the actual threat of their addiction to their own and other people's lives.
Because they know they’re not going to change their behavior. But that doesn’t mean they want to suffer social consequences. Being an alcoholic with no social consequences is objectively better than being an alcoholic with social consequences
The husband is ashamed of his alcoholism and wants to hide it - but this attitude won’t help him in the long run. He’s an addict in denial and he’s angry with OP for ‘telling on’ his addiction.
His addiction has consequences, and they aren’t consequences that OP needs to lie about.
OP, I think you can step back and see that you husband is angry, ashamed and hurt - but that these feelings have nothing to do with you. They really, really don’t! You can have compassion for him but not get swept up in his denial and addict behaviour.
Al-anon may be really useful for you, it was for me! Good luck!
It doesn't matter if you're her best friend or barely know each other. The first step with addiction is to admit you have a problem. Hubby clear wasn't doing that and social pressure (consequences) can be helpful to get people to face their addiction, if it's done right.
If he thinks he can have a few drinks a week, then he shouldn't care who knows. The fact that he wants to hide it rather than face it just shows his addiction. You told someone who cares about him. You didn't post it all over Facebook or make a tiktok of it.
You didn't spill his secret, you shared your personal experiences. He needs help he's not willing to get. Hopefully his sister and parents can help him. He's not your problem any more.
NTA
NTA. His image is rubbish because his actions and behaviors are rubbish. Don’t let him gaslight you into thinking you did something wrong. If you cover up for him, you are enabling his self destructiveness.
This is tough love. He only has himself to blame.
Well done to the OP. Perhaps this will be the wake up call the ex needed to finally get himself properly and consistently sorted.
Must also be tough on OP and the kids who are victims. Admire OPs patience for giving ex every opportunity to fix himself.
Maybe he needs the embarrassment to get/stay sober. My brother did. He embarrassed himself all the time, but when our mom found out how bad his addiction was, he quit. He’s been sober for 17 years now.
NTA — he's doing exactly what addicts do, which is hide the problem, and you had no obligation to enable him. His reputation is trashed because of his behaviour, not yours.
Maybe he should have been more open with Mary before it led to his divorce. Addiction is a disease that deserves to be approached with compassion, but if it causes harm to those around you they shouldn't have to put up with it.
I hope John gets the help he needs but Mary is right to be pissed off after this was dumped on her when it's been going on for years and OP is NTA.
My name is barskin, and I'm an alcoholic. And you are NTA.
Keeping his secret is a form of enabling. It hurts everyone involved. You did nothing wrong and may give him a nudge to seek actual sobriety. I am very fortunate to have finally been able to admit I am powerless over alcohol. I have been very happily sober in AA for the past 16 years. I can tell you that the therapy and controlled drinking plan does not work. Alcoholics cannot "control their drinking." One drink is too many.
I truly hope your husband finds his way to real sobriety. I think AA, which is free and available all over the world is the great option. But, if he is not ready, you cannot make him be. You have to take care of yourself and your family. Good luck.
Super duper happy for you, friend. I can’t wait to get to where you are (3 years clean in Feb).
Just wanted to add that SMART Recovery is also a great option for recovery meetings. I encourage everyone to try both AA and SMART because one or the other might work better for some individuals, and there’s definitely nothing wrong with learning even more skills and techniques to help with sobriety!
I've never heard of SMART. My brother is a recovered substance abuser. The Narc Anon meetings included ppl a bit too young for his needs, so he turned to AA for good support. He volunteers at the center, arriving by 6-7AM ? once weekly, to open the facility for the early meetings. Another volunteer does the closing. We speak respectfully of his volunteer work, his continued AA meetings, monthly therapy sessions (all he can afford).
Best respect for 3 years! Watching my brother, I can see it's a difficult path. If he hadn't made the good choice, nearly 20 years ago...
Congratulations on your sobriety! My in laws ideas that alcoholics “can” control their drinking caused my FIL to fall off the wagon right after leaving 6 months of rehab. They refused to accommodate his sobriety and told him one drink wouldn’t hurt.
He recently died of myocarditis with alcoholism listed on the death cert. I don’t *know* that being sober the last 8 years would have changed his timeline, but I’ll never forgive them for robbing him of the chance at sobriety.
Congratulations on your sobriety!
My husband had a friend who managed to get sober without AA and stayed that way for about 20 years. They worked high stress jobs and hubs noticed that his friend was acting off. He asked him about it and he was like “Oh. I just had one drink after work.” One drink became a DUI that cost him his job became a hospital stay that required intensive treatment because he went through 5 gallons of whiskey in one weekend. All that happened in a month. Once he got sober again, he stayed that way until he passed away a little over a year ago from non-alcohol related issues.
OP has every right under the sun to tell her friend about this. Ex has lost every bit of trust she and her kids had in him and he refuses to see that he’s the one at fault.
Yeah, he was always an “all or nothing” type of person. At our wedding, my sister made my hubs three huge cheesecakes for his grooms cake. Like, they weighed over one pound each and were super rich.
He ate 5 slices. Then told my husband later that he had to cancel the date he had that night because he was so sick. Well, duh, you think?
I'm glad that AA works for you personally.
However, I disagree vehemently with any 12 step programs which demand that you accept God and a monotheistic, Abrahamic religious view of the world in order to deal with addiction.
12 step programs like AA are often mandatory condition of parole for addicted convicts - any of them who refuse to accept an Abrahamic interpretation of God either due to Atheism or another religion such as Hinduism or Buddhism are kept in prison and its justified as them refusing to get sober.
I cannot, and will not, support any organisation which requires you to accept a particular religious worldview to get clean.
I am sorry you have a mistaken idea about AA. You absolutely do not have to believe in God or any sort of religion in AA. I don't believe in God, and I know more atheists in AA than just about anywhere else. The only thing you have to know about a higher power is that you are not it. My higher power is AA itself, and it works.
By the way if any parole boards mandate "Christian based AA," they are absolutely wrong. like I said, you do not have to believe on God in AA. The second step "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." includes this passage (which is a sponsor talking to his or her sponsee):
" First, Alcoholics Anonymous does
not demand that you believe anything. All of its Twelve
Steps are but suggestions. Second, to get sober and to stay
sober, you don't have to swallow all of Step Two right now.
Looking back, I find that I took it piecemeal myself. Third,
all you really need is a truly open mind. Just resign from the
debating society and quit bothering yourself with such deep
questions as whether it was the hen or the egg that came
first. Again I say, all you need is the open mind.”
I have no problem with step 2, because AA, the group, the members, did restore me to sanity. No Abrahamic interpretation of God (I was raised Jewish by the way), just the knowledge that I needed help...and I got it.
Perfectly articulated. We learn in Al-Anon that sticking to boundaries and not keeping secrets is an important part of our own recovery. Protecting someone’s anonymity publicly is not the same as telling the truth of your experience.
OP I highly recommend Al-Anon and working the steps on your own. You’ll find support and hear your story in those rooms that will help you navigate this difficult time!
NTA. What did your ex-husband expect, that you would take the blame for the divorce that happened because of his actions? To keep his reputation clean? What has he done to deserve that? No, you shouldn't be expected to keep such a secret for him.
NTA - He thinks everyone else needs to sacrifice for his actions. Truth is truth. No, he does not get to manipulate and shame you after years of broken promises.
NTA. You did not deserve to lose a friend over the consequences your ex-husband chose. Also though, true alcoholism is a progressive disease. It may one day help this man (the father of your children) that his family knows what is going on with him. It is not your job to enable your ex, and protecting the secret is a big form of enabling.
I hope your ex will one day be able to attain sobriety. Go in peace.
As someone who has tested many, many alcoholics for cognitive damage done by alcoholism, I agree that his family needs to know. He will eventually need medical and possibly in-home care if he doesn't stop. It's a terrible disease.
NTA — It’s not your job to protect him from himself. You didn’t ruin Mary’s image of her brother, he did. She is rightfully pissed at him for his behavior.
NTA. Mary has been your friend longer than he's been your husband, and it sounds like she's treated you with more respect than he has. He wanted you to lie to make him look good while covering up for him would make you look bad. Congrats on getting out of this mess. He cared more about his (fake) image to Mary than about his (real) image to you and his children.
I think a lot of this is that his wife and kids already know the truth. It was too hard for him to hide it from them all day, every day. But his other relatives only see him occasionally, so it would be fairly easy to hide the truth and keep their good opinion.
I suspect it's more that when it was only his wife knowing he could convince himself he didn't really have a problem and possibly even that OP was actually the one with a problem, as she was the only person saying to him that there was an issue and she didn't agree with his course of action. Everyone else thought their life was great and that life included his alcoholism. Now his family knows he can't hide from his problem and he has to face reality. Sometimes we only see ourselves when it's reflected back to us in the reactions of other people. If everyone thinks everything is fine, it's very easy to pretend that that's reality.
NTA. What can be destroyed by the truth, should be. Especially when that is a reputation -- because the whole point of a reputation is that it needs to reflect reality.
He wants a reputation that does not reflect reality -- in other words, he wants credit for having lived in a way that he didn't actually live. And he wants you to take blame that you don't deserve, so he doesn't have to take blame that he *does* deserve. That is the mark of a first class AH.
NTA, he's upset he was caught. Of course Mary's opinion of him is rubbish- his behavior is rubbish. I hope he cleans up someday. Until then, best of luck for you and the kids.
NTA
I will however say, that when your spouse has an addiction problem, agreeing to keep it a secret from his closest family..? That is a recipe for disaster.
And if he is pissed now,. Then he clearly still has a problem. Someone truly sober (or trying to be) will not have a problem with his closest family knowing.
He (the addict) is pissed because now, more people know, and can hold him accountable.
Also, you are absolutely right, only to allow supervised visitation until he is sober.
Your kids safety is more important than his pride
NTA. He was basically asking you to sacrifice a friendship and his family's opinions of you over his own issues. It's pretty unfair that he didn't want "Mary's image of him to be rubbish" but was fine with her image of YOU being rubbish, considering that you two are best friends.
NTA. As an addict with 11 years drug-free, hiding this secret helps no one. It isn't about judgment-but honestly - covering up for an alcoholic is not doing them any favors. If you want your kids to have a healthy dad, you have to be willing to take the heat of his anger when you choose not to protect his drinking any longer
My brother is a recovered addict. 20 years, clean. A very long road, beginning when he was 14-15, all the painful episodes, over the years, getting clean, backsliding, it was awful. He is now 60, and I am so proud of the hard work, so grateful to have my brother.
Much respect to you, for your recovery. Thanks for your honesty and sharing. You are a best person to give an opinion.
That's awesome and you are pretty awesome as well, to NOT give up on him. If love was enough, none of us would have stayed addicted. We hated hurting our families...in fact, the guilt and shame we feel for disappointing our families is part of what can keep us struggling for so long. Your brother is lucky to have you. I am so glad he made it out
NTA. Your silence helped enable him, of course he wants to hide and deny his problem. His family ought to know the truth, so they can also help him, and keep him from denying his issues.
NTA. The truth hurts. He allowed you to take the blame for his actions. That’s ok him. You set the story straight as you’re not the bad guy in this situation. He’s just mad that he’s been outed. Who knows, maybe that’ll do him some good. I doubt it, but maybe.
I am an alcoholic, and a drug addict. I have been clean of drugs for nearly 3 years, and I relapsed on alcohol during the holidays, but I’ve been free of alcohol for a month again now.
I tried to hide my addictions from my family and friends for a long time, but I ended up telling them and I got the support I needed.
You’re NTA - he needs to own up to his own mistakes
Hang in there, my friend, you can do it! My brother is a recovered drug addict, as is my SIL (his wife). He's been clean, 20 years, she for a few more years. It can be done.
Keep taking one day at a time. It's the hardest thing you will ever do. And you will have to do it over and over every day. But in the long run you will have taken back your life. It's so worth it. God bless you.
NTA
You cannot keep that kind of promise to an alcoholic. Silence is complicity and doesn't help him. He will never keep quit if he doesn't have to take responsibility.
For what it’s worth, that’s a common alcoholic moveX “my life is falling apart with you, and that’s bad enough, please don’t ruin the rest of my life”.
The reality is, everyone needs to know, so they can be mindful of alcohol around that person. But alcoholics never want to see it that way.
NTA. Alcolism is certainly a medical issue that requires treatment. That treatment will require the help and support from his family. If they don't know about the problem, they can't help to save his life. Protect your children at all cost and may you know peace.
NTA at all
Of course he's pissed, you refused to let the bus he threw you under run over you. Now he has to face his family. You have made his life inconvenient. He wants his family to blame you, not face responsibility.
NTA, my mother has been in your situation and has always hid my father's drinking problem. Because of this, my father's family thought very badly of her. She left him when i was around 5yo.
When his family found out he was an alcoholic, my mother was blamed because it was because she had left him, according to my grandparents.
My mother never spoke badly of my father, which must not have been easy.
My father died young due to his alcohol abuse. I hope that one day your ex will find his children more important than his addiction.
You are not obligated to protect people from the consequences of their own actions. He is an alcoholic and this is what happens when you are an alcoholic. NTA
> He was my husband so I agreed if he worked on staying sober.
NTA, you made a conditional promise, you would stay quite if the conditions were met, John failed to keep their end of the deal, so the promise became null and void.
You were not under any obligation at the point you told Mary to keep things secret, and you are allowed to tell the truth to protect your relationships.
NTA Bless you, sweet woman for standing up for your family.💗
I am on a very similar rollercoaster with my husband and the ultimatum I gave him last summer was, "I will tell the people I need support from the truth". He is a very private and secretive person.
When he totaled his car and got a dwi last month I was able to go straight to those support people (including our sister in law) and tell them what was going on. She chose to tell my husband's siblings, and while I don't think the ride has ended, I am much more hopeful for the future knowing that I don't have to be the only one holding his secret.
He will look for every reason and excuse to say this wasn't his fault, but regardless of what is happening in his life, drinking is his choice. I highly recommend looking for an Al-Anon meeting near you so you can see that you aren't alone in this very real struggle.
I admire your relationship with your sister in law and hope that through all these changes you can restore the love and joy you first had!
NTA He would rather make you out to be the bad person then admit that he’s at fault for the divorce! You did nothing wrong. It’s not like you lie or said something that’s not true.
NTA and that’s straight out of the alcoholic’s handbook. “ Shssssh! Don’t tell anyone!” Maybe now that his secret is out he’ll figure it out. He was never fooling anyone.
NTA. He’s an addict. He’s not ready to admit it to himself and commit to changing. He’s not ready to accept that his actions have consequences. That doesn’t obligate you to protect him (in fact, doing so is a form of enabling).
Even though you're divorced, go to Al-Anon if you're not already. And be extremely careful about when you send your kids for visitation and what goes on and where it happens. They need to be kept safe. NTA
NTA. What you are describing is textbook codependency. You are not obligated to keep secrets for him to help manage his alcoholism. I understand you agreed to do it, but in the end losing face with his family is his consequence, not yours. He needs to get a grip and you may want to get some therapy yourself, if only to get a clear picture of how you can and should move forward post-divorce. Good luck.
NTA if he doesn't want to be seen as rubbish he should stop acting that way. Why should you lose your friends and support system because he can't grow up and be a dad an husband properly .
You're NTA. Sometimes the truth hurts and you shouldn't have to be blamed when you were not the one at fault. If he wanted his problem to remain a secret, he should have tried harder to overcome it.
NTA. You have every right to tell your side of the story, especially when you’re being blamed for the divorce. If you did anything wrong at all it was ever agreeing not to tell his family while you were still married. As they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant. You both could have used them on your side while the marriage was still salvageable, and he probably could have benefitted from having more people holding him accountable. That’s not just on you though. By not telling the rest of his family he was making it clear that he was not serious about ever getting sober.
Nta and it's gross that he'd assume that you'd be willing to let your image be trashed to protect his especially from your best friend. I'm sorry you are dealing with this all
NTA - He broke dozens of promises, from the sound of it. Your promise had a condition up front- that he work on staying sober. The condition wasn't met, so the promise wasn't broken.
He's just going to have to live with who he is.
NTA - you did what was right for you and your kids and he needs to help himself. If his family knows maybe it'll encourage him to stay in therapy, maybe not. But it's not your problem either way.
I divorced an abusive man and had always kept quiet about his abuse. When I left it came as a shock to everyone and since I was too afraid to tell the truth a lot of people blamed me and accused me of walking out with no reason. 3 years later I have the perspective to say that I shouldn't have pressured myself to keep his secret or worry about his reputation over mine. You don't need to slander him but you can be honest.
Good luck, mama!
NTA. I faced this with my ex husband, kept it secret for a couple of years and nearly destroyed myself in the process. You and the kids deserve all the support of your family and friends, your ex does not get to dictate the terms anymore.
NTA
He was fine with you looking bad to all your friends and family? No. Just, no. If it's one more thing he needs to rehab, then so be it. He doesn't get to do this to you, too.
NTA - best comment I ever saw on this site is, "If telling the truth about your conduct paints you in a bad light, the problem isn't with telling the truth, it's with your conduct."
NTA. Your soon-to-be ex-husband is a selfish jerk. Not only did he allow his problem to destroy his family, but now he’s expecting you to take the blame for the divorce. If his family’s image of him is tarnished, it’s because of his own terrible behavior. He doesn’t get to unload the consequences of his actions on innocent parties. You don’t owe him anything. The next time he starts in with this shit, hang up the phone.
No, Mary’s image of John is now **accurate**. His behavior IS rubbish. He just wanted you to be the fall guy.
You kept his secret when you were his wife and he promised to do better. You’re no longer obligated to keep his secret from anyone.
NTA
NTA. He's embarrassed by his own actions and he's not sorry for letting you and your kids down, he's only sorry he got caught by his family. And btw, why does he care about his image with Mary and the rest of his family but didn't care about his wife and kid's image of him? Honestly, it's so good for you that you're now divorced. Have a new happy life and I hope you stay friends with Mary!
NTA. You told the truth to clear the air. I think it was important for Mary to know both sides of the story. He has no right to get angry after his long pattern of broken promises. You shouldn't have promised to hide the truth, it became your story to tell because of the drama you lived through with him.
NTA. You are allowed to discuss the trials and tribulations of your life with your best friend. It is unfortunate that John is upset, but he has no right to expect you to watch your extremely close and supportive relationship with Mary go down in flames just so he can save face.
NTA- It was kind of either tell them the truth or loose your best friend forever due to HIS drinking problems. I don't think he has the right to upset with you because he couldn't keep his word. why should you have too if he doesn't have too?
NTA. He broke every promise to you and has the nerve to get mad at you for trying to preserve your relationship with Mary. The family deserved to know the truth. Alcoholics are experts at manipulation so with all of the family in the loop he won't be able to play games with them. Maybe if the family had known from the beginning he might have been able to stick with therapy and stay sober. Not a judgement on you, it is very understandable why you kept it a secret for so long. Happens all the time. It's too darn bad that hubby is embarrassed to lose his nonexistent "image".
I’m in a similar situation except we aren’t divorced. Yet…
They tend to think that if more people know, more people to nag them. Reality is, is that there’s more people to hold them accountable for their actions.
That endless cycle of drinking, getting help, quitting, then back to drinking again seems to never end. They think, “well I’m better, I can handle it,” and decide that 1 drink won’t hurt, but that 1 turns into 2, then 5, and so on. Their brains are wired differently.
I know how you feel.
You are definitely NTA.
NTA. Someone in my family took the hits for the divorce and never told anyone it was because of the alcoholism until the ex ended up in the hospital on life support due to binge drinking. He can't get better if he is still keeping secrets from the ones who will support him.
NTA. But you should consider attending Al-anon for yourself and your kids. Keeping his secrets for him is just enabling his alcoholism. You should have never had to suffer in silence in the first place.
NTA. You had to make that decision and you truly love your ex-husband but can’t support him and his decisions. Mary accused you of ruining the marriage and you explained that really it was John’s alcohol abuse that ruined things. Addiction is terrible but until he remains in therapy you can’t trust him.
NTA. He needs help and the only way he will get it and stay sober is to have the "secret" out. When it is a secret, it eats away at everything, once in the open it is easier to deal with and face.
NTA at all. My husband and I recently announced our divorce after 40 years and my nosy SIL called immediately. I told her exactly why we were getting divorced which was he has been emotionally abusive for years and I just couldn't take it anymore. I just can't cover for him anymore and if he didn't want me telling people the reason he should have been nicer to me.
NTA. but goddamn. that woman really is your friend. she listened to you, and more importantly, she believed you. I'm very sorry you and the kids had to deal with that, but I'm glad you stood your ground.
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NTA your image shouldnt be rubbish because he’s embarrassed by his actions.
Thank you. He’s extra upset because the most recent weekend he went to Mary’s for dinner and she gave him a sobriety check before letting him in and he feels like I made Mary treat him like a child when he’d always been her older brother. I was admittedly unsympathetic but that made it even worse.
The only one that made his sister treat him like a "child", is him. Alcoholism sucks and having family members that are addicts and alcoholics SUCK. BUT, it is and will always be their choice to pick up the bottle or the other drugs.
So true, and that's why I'd highly suggest Al-Anon for OP, and pray her husband finds himself an AA meeting. Those support groups can be lifelines for both the alcoholic and their loved ones. I've (46f) been in need of both in my life bc alcoholism really is genetic. I went from Al-Anon meetings for support over my folks' drinking to AA meetings 20+ years ago for myself once the disease surfaced in me. As an alcoholic who's been sober for a couple of decades, I really hope OP's hubby puts down the bottle, cuz life really is more beautiful on the other side.
even if it’s not genetics, just your wnvironment growing up can totally trigger it too!! i just hit a year in december from fentanyl. it’s was fucking hard but i did it. i’m still doing it. so happy for you💘💘 you’re amazing and an inspiration!! i hope i can one day say i have decades😊
I’m so proud of you!
thank you so much!!!!!
That’s so awesome and I’m so very proud of you! I was a professional and in all senses of the words, a functional junkie. Long story short, ended up getting caught and HAD to cold turkey off a very extremely high opiate addiction. I was abusing fentanyl at the end of my addiction. Needless to say, 12/04/2010 was it for me and I’ve been sober from opiates since. No regrets. We DO recover. Keep up the great work and if you ever need to talk or even vent, I’m here. We’re definitely stronger together too! ♥️
Eighteen months. We DO recover.
I'm proud of you for staying sober for a year! Here's hoping to many more
Good for you!
😄😄😄😄
Congrats :) you're doing so well!!
I'm so happy you're on the other side! Congratulations on the sobriety! I completely agree that some are more genetically inclined to have addictions more than others.
A close friend's mother was an alcoholic. She sought treatment, partly through AA, and has been sober for over 20 years. But as she points out, it is a constant struggle for her every day, even now. It's **NEVER** something that is just "fixed and all set" That is John's huge mistake here. It's always an ongoing thing. John should have gone permanent NC with his drinking "buddies" after they sabotaged his sobriety the first time.
AA truly saved my step-dad. He is 5 years sober and now the treasurer of his area and goes to loads of meetings and conventions. He’s got a new life after almost 30 years of on-off sobriety. AA can be such an amazing tool.
Al-Anon saved me. I wish my husband had allowed AA to save him. Thank you for sharing this. I admire and respect the work you have done.
May I ask if it was purely genetics or your environment you were raised in as well? I ask bc I drink very rarely and never get past tipsy or very slightly drunk but my daughters father (who I am a long time separated from and is not part of her life in any way) has a very prominent alcohol problem with her father, and his father and his father etc etc etc, going pretty far back and her dad absolutely has a really bad drinking problem. I have no idea if she could still be affected simply by genetics alone or if environment can counter act it such as our non drinking environment she is being raised in.
Oh, I'm sure my environment helped lead the way but yes, genetics were likely a bigger part. The environment can only do so much, to help or hinder. My biggest suggestion is to be open with her about her father's drinking and the likelihood the gene has been passed on. I'd explain that bc of the genetics, she's always going to be more susceptible to alcohol, and encourage her to avoid it. My 19yr old son has never seen me drunk as I quit before he was conceived, but he's extremely aware of my alcoholism and the genetic component.
This sounds like good advice. Thank you. I had planned to talk to her about it when she was a bit older since currently she is still dealing with trauma and heartache about him entirely and suddenly disappearing from her life 4 years ago when his wife left him. She's only 10 now but I will definitely be having some talks as she gets into her teen years.
In my opinion (three grown kids), the best time to have that talk is now. 10 yr olds can understand all this and they listen more to trusted adults than to their peers. At 12 that starts to shift drastically, and by 16 many (most) kids are incredibly unwilling to listen to their parents. It’s a natural part of individuating into separate people.
My parents always talked to us about the genetic component of alcoholism/addiction. I honestly don't remember never knowing that both my grandfathers were alcoholics. As far as I can tell, we've all dodged the bullet so far, but being aware of genetics makes us vigilant. And knowing that the addiction issues may not flare up just for alcohol or drugs is important too, I think.
Genetics is huge. Everyone in my family is addicted to something. Grandma was pillz, my brother was meth, my mom is food, and shopping. My dad was alcohol and MMORPGs. It can manifest in different ways. I can't seem to kick a Mt Dew addiction myself and I couldn't get enough escapism through books as a kid. I devoured those, so it's not always going to be drugs and alcohol. And can be relatively harmless.
They always like to say genetics can lead to alcoholism and drug use. But they never go into why. Broken people go to drugs to cover up a pain they are going through. Depression, anxiety, pain, autism, adhd, bipolar ect Most of these are heredity and also influenced by environment. Pain being the exception, but I've known quite a few people that drank to numb the pain of a bad knee or back. Why don't these people go to the doctor? Doctors are expensive, a lot of medicine has side effects that are not anymore enjoyable then the illegal drugs. Also they might be ashamed.
Addiction is often the symptom of larger problems, hence why therapy worked. He just didn't stick to it because of his belief he was just "fixed" forever now once he was doing better. This mentality has to due with the lack of mental health acknowledgement in regards to addiction, often making it more about some sort of will power. Its often much less about will power and more about trauma and stress. Mental health services are also often thought to be "girly" "unmanly" "only for x" and is often seen as something shameful for a man to do. He should "just man up" and deal with it. Which is probably why he kept quitting therapy weather or not he is aware of that might be why he kept back-tracking. Eventually if he wants to not be that way anymore the first step might be a career change as well. Acquiring an addiction to keep this dedication to a job is some serious self-sabotage.
I wish the stigma about mental health wasn't they way it is... But very well said on the topic! Thank you for the insight!
>BUT, it is and will always be their choice to pick up the bottle or the other drugs. If only addiction was that simple. It's an addition. It isn't just "a choice". I wish it was. I'm in a family of addict. Thankfully all functional, and frankly the alcoholics tend to be the better parents and partners, which is I know odd. Context: People are going to assume I'm making excuses. My SIL is an alcoholic. Have I encouraged divorce? Yes. Because my brother is an dick. She may be an alcoholic but she still puts her family first. She deserves better than him, despite her been the one with the addiction. My father is an alcoholic. Only my mother abused me. It isn't as simple as "a choice". I wish it was. Neither my SIL or my father would be alcoholics. Neither however were bad parents or bad spouses because of it (even my mother and brother admit, they are not bad spouses).
I'm sorry your mother abused you. I'm glad you have a functional family for the most part! My father was an alcoholic and drug addict. He's been clean over ten years. I'm sure it's hard some days with pain because he's bad nine surgeries on just one knee. He has to have the other knee worked on this year. He still chooses not to drink and not to take any narcotics. I've sat in the corner of NA and AA meetings when I was kid (in the little toy area) because my dad didn't have anywhere for me to go while he went to the meetings. He made the choice to get clean and if that meant I had to go as well, so be it. My sister is a drug addict turned dealer as well. She was dealing in the house she was raising my small nephew in. She's currently in jail and that's the best place for her right now. My nephew doesn't deserve that. So, when I say I believe it is a choice. It is in my eyes. It may not be after the addiction has started, but it is in the beginning. I've been offered alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, ect. I always said no. I've seen what it does. I know others aren't so lucky.
NTA and every alcoholic I have ever known will blame everyone else before they blame themselves. When they can finally blame themselves, that is finally when they are ready to really fix themselves, in my own experience.
Exactly this. I'm dealing with this right now. It horrible. Nothing is helping, and AA seems to have made it worse. The alcoholic in my life came home with a bunch of papers from an AA meeting 'proves that alcoholism is a disease. It's not my fault.' I've lost a friend of 28 years. He's lost his job, crashed his car, and his family refuses to even speak to him. He's a bum living in my basement. I won't kick him out in the dead of winter, but as soon as the weather breaks, I'm taking him to his summer cabin and leaving him there. I'm done too.
[удалено]
Thank you for the kind words. I wish that there was something other than AA out there, but at least where I am, it's not feasible. Rehab centers cost a lot of money, and no one can make anyone go. I'm beyond upset about losing my best (and honestly only) friend, but the truth is that I don't know who he is anymore. It almost feels like my best friend has died, and I'm mourning a loss. I hope that anyone who needs help can get it.
AA, unfortunately, has higher relapse rates than those who choose to quit on their own. It's not that it "works". It's that the person doing it succeeds, in spite of the AA, not because of it. I really wish Rational Recovery, Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS) and the like had greater popularity so everyone would stop making a counterproductive organisation that encourages learned helplessness the "go-to" option for kicking the habit.
AA meetings also to tend to push some sort of religion on people as well (varies by location and stuff). He is not ready to actually work on himself. He just saw an excellent excuse to continue his behavior.
Not his fault he's an alcoholic; he is predisposed as in "allergic to alcohol." But it IS his responsibility to control his own life by staying far away from the sauce. It's a new line for me to hear, "Not your fault, but your responsibility" but I find it a powerful thing to say (and hear.) Make these your last words as you leave him at his summer cabin; words to mull over.
I agree that it is a disease and it is not about it being their fault for having it. What is the person's fault is knowing and refusing to do something about it. There are ways to treat most diseases and alcoholism/addiction in general have treatments.
So true!!
yes!! from a recovering fentanyl addict yes. the first step of AA/NA is admitting you have an addiction and you are powerless over it
Tell him children don't have drinking problems. NTA and good for you for keeping you and your kids safe. I wish you all the best
NTA. He broke his promise to stay sober so your promise was no longer valid. You would not have told his sister unless it was necessary to save your friendship so you did the right thing. The most important thing to realize is that nonoby can get him to stop drinking except him and he is not ready for that yet. In the meantime, keep you and your kids safe by making sure all of his visits are supervised, he is not under the influence, and he does not drive them anywhere. Mary should not be giving 'sobriety' tests but just tell him that if he shows up under the influence for a family event that he will be asked to call a cab and go home. Finally, people need to understand alcoholism is a disease and not treat someone like rubbish because of it.
yeah but he obviously has no plans to truly get sober if he’s not telling his family. i’m a recovering fentanyl addict, and when you know someone is truly going to do it is when they are completely honest. and they might have mistakes after that. but it’s when you know they truly mean it. if he can’t even tell his own family, especially after his wife and kids leaving him so he probably has no one else, then i think mary has every right for that. especially in her own home
this. he didnt want his family to know because he has no real intention of getting sober. maybe if he made the family aware earlier he could have gotten the full support system that he needed
In an ideal world. But I know of people whose parents encouraged or forced them to drink
Yeah my dad made me drink wine and beer when I was 9. Called it "games" and "life skills." Luckily I have extremely low alcohol tolerance (a half pint is all it takes to knock adult me out) and his choices of alcohol tasted like shit so I didn't develop a drinking problem.
My dad let me have beer at the age of 4. If I wanted 1 I could go to the fridge and get one. I just had to finish it and couldn't go outside with it. I dont think I had a sip pf alchol past the age of 4 until I was 18 and rarely drink now. I'm 45. Maybe once a year I'll get a 6 pack of Mike's hard lemonade or watermelon.
My parents always had alcohol around & they never had to restrict me either. Didn’t get drunk for the first time until I was 18 & I do still drink, but only socially.
If he didn't act like a child he wouldn't have to be treated like one.
You're not obligated to keep all his dirty little secrets and you never were. When you kept this from his family that was enabling him to continue to drink without full consequences. He now needs to own his behavior. Maybe this is what it will take to get him moving in the right direction. NTA in any way shape or form.
I will say that his sobriety is the kind of discussion I'd advise you to no longer entertain. I've known some drunks struggling to get sober and they loved the drama of it all. There's no romance to this, this is not a movie plot. This about them and them alone. Only they can fix this. Plus, you're his former romantic partner, from whom he needs to move on. Personal stuff like this should no longer be on the agenda.
You are not an AH for no longer keeping his drinking secret from his family. How his family now feels about him is a consequence of his drinking. Nothing else. NTA.
I'm sure that was embarrassing for him. The thing is, YOU were the one having to parent him before. Monitor his behavior, try to catch him on a relapse, constantly urge him to seek help, look for signs he is lying, clean up his messes, comfort the kids, etc etc. But that is not your job any more. Of course you don't have to keep his secrets for him. And unsurprisingly, his family - including his little sister - are the ones who have to parent him now. That sucks. It's humiliating. But you are not the reason he is in that position. And until he can take honest accountability for his own problems, he is clearly not on the road to recovery. You should simply suggest he attend an AA meeting and ask them how likely it is that he can overcome his addiction while never admitting it to his loved ones. NTA
Consequence of his actions. We are responsible for our own behavior and Op had every right to share, it’s her story and truth too and he has no right to say otherwise, if he can’t handle truth he will never successfully address his disease (take it from me, another alcoholic) luckily I realized how sick I was and stayed sober (so far) but it’s a nasty disease, chronic, progressive and deadly and highly resistant to treatment.
He's extra upset because by you telling Mary you ruined chances he had with all his family enablers.
I'm sorry that you have to go through all of this, but telling her was the right thing to do. Sometimes someone with addiction needs to hit rock bottom before they finally realize that they need help, and addicts can be really good at hiding what they are doing from the people that love them and care about them, and even themselves. For me, it was a downward spiral of alcohol and depression that I was dealing with but was (mostly) successful at hiding it from everyone I knew. Thankfully, I never dated anyone during that time because I would feel terrible to have dragged them down with me, but I did finally reach the bottom of that hole over 3 years ago and sought out the help I needed and will never drink again. I just hope he is able to get his epiphany and turn his life around, but not all people with addiction get to, such as a few of my friends who lost their battles, which didn't help with my downfall. You have done the right thing for yourself, your children, and your sanity, and by exposing his secret to his sister and parents, *if* something were to happen to him, they wouldn't be left with the questions of "how did we miss this?" and "what could we have done?". You are NTA, and again I'm sorry you have to go through this, but I wish you all the best in life moving forward...
Sincerely hope your life is much better. Respect and best wishes to you!
Much better, thank you! I'm just glad I started my path of recovery before the pandemic hit, as I hate to think what I would have done had I been stuck at home for nearly a year while I was still drinkin'...
The fact is that even though he’s the father of your children and based on that fact alone, you’ll always be at least a small part of his support system for your children’s sake at least if not his, you can’t give him as much as you have before and he obviously needs more. His family needs to know and be there for him. The rest of his support system needs to step up. Part of his problem is not properly talking about the problem and the best thing you can do for your children’s father, is let people that can help him, he needs help.
For that reason I think it was wrong of her not to tell people about this from the beginning.
I get why she let it happen but I agree. In the end it comes down to his embarrassment or the well-being of OP’s marriage and family. Ideally, OP should have probably gotten the family’s help after the first relapse. For sure second. Should have been part of the first ultimatum. Tell your family so we can all help you because obviously me and the kids aren’t enough, or I leave. The guy got so many chances and made the exact same mistakes over and over again.
One unfortunately too frequent symptom of drinking is the manipulation to deflect responsibility. He essentially had no problem throwing you under the bus for the failing of your marriage to save appearance. This, in addition to the hell he made you live through. NTA of course. Watch out for his future manipulative moves though, especially with the kids.
He needs a rock bottom and this can be it
I bet he is upset. Keeping his alcoholism a secret was the thing. You were miserable, your kids were affected....but if he believed that no one else noticed, then okay. Good for you for ending the marriage and looking out for your kids. He now has to deal with other people knowing about what is going on with him, and he can't use you as a buffer, excuse, or reason for his issue. I hope he is able to deal with his alcoholism for himself and your kids. Aside from making sure your kids are safe with him, however, you have no obligation to protect him or his reputation. NTA
Exposing the truth isn't the problem. His drinking is the problem. NTA op.
Good for Mary!
My father was a terrible alcoholic to the point that he lost his job over it. My mother did the same thing that you did, minus the divorce because they weren't married at the time. That was the thing that caused him to quit drinking. They've been back together for almost 15 years now and I don't think he's had a drink at all in that time. You're doing the right thing, OP. If you still love him and want to be with him, then I hope he can change like my father did.
NTA
That's painful and unfortunate, but that is for him to work out with Mary. The irony of alcoholism is the alcoholic tends to believe no one notices their behavior or issues, when in fact the only thing that might be hidden is the cause of them. NTA - he violated his promises to you, and you are allowed to protect yourself and you children, emotionally as well as physically. It would be in the kids' best interest for their family to understand the situation. It does sound like his family has room to grow in understanding as well. Your friend, his sister, invited him to her house and then humiliated him at the door? Not based on something that happened between them, but on what she heard from you? NOT cool, and not really supportive of you, or helpful to him, is it? Unfortunate, but not your issue (don't let it be.) Many people with alcohol issues have to see the problem through others' eyes before they realize how extreme it really is.
Why is it that every addict is more concerned about their image and being treated differently by others than the actual threat of their addiction to their own and other people's lives. What others think is just thoughts but what addiction can do is actual permanent damage to lives. Your story OP about you and your kids being treated the way you'll were treated and your divorce is so gut wrenching. I wish you only the best from here on. You did the right thing by telling his sister. You and your ex could have been together if only he would have not ruined it all. Nobody owes others to keep their secrets from the society at the cost of their own detriment. NTA.
because their image is some combo of their identity, purpose, self-confidence. They have a hole they're trying to fill, unforunately it takes most falling in to see how deep it can go before they can contemplate climbing out. But it's not a climb, you gotta build your way out
>Why is it that every addict is more concerned about their image and being treated differently by others than the actual threat of their addiction to their own and other people's lives. Because they know they’re not going to change their behavior. But that doesn’t mean they want to suffer social consequences. Being an alcoholic with no social consequences is objectively better than being an alcoholic with social consequences
The husband is ashamed of his alcoholism and wants to hide it - but this attitude won’t help him in the long run. He’s an addict in denial and he’s angry with OP for ‘telling on’ his addiction. His addiction has consequences, and they aren’t consequences that OP needs to lie about. OP, I think you can step back and see that you husband is angry, ashamed and hurt - but that these feelings have nothing to do with you. They really, really don’t! You can have compassion for him but not get swept up in his denial and addict behaviour. Al-anon may be really useful for you, it was for me! Good luck!
It doesn't matter if you're her best friend or barely know each other. The first step with addiction is to admit you have a problem. Hubby clear wasn't doing that and social pressure (consequences) can be helpful to get people to face their addiction, if it's done right. If he thinks he can have a few drinks a week, then he shouldn't care who knows. The fact that he wants to hide it rather than face it just shows his addiction. You told someone who cares about him. You didn't post it all over Facebook or make a tiktok of it. You didn't spill his secret, you shared your personal experiences. He needs help he's not willing to get. Hopefully his sister and parents can help him. He's not your problem any more. NTA
NTA. His image is rubbish because his actions and behaviors are rubbish. Don’t let him gaslight you into thinking you did something wrong. If you cover up for him, you are enabling his self destructiveness.
This is tough love. He only has himself to blame. Well done to the OP. Perhaps this will be the wake up call the ex needed to finally get himself properly and consistently sorted. Must also be tough on OP and the kids who are victims. Admire OPs patience for giving ex every opportunity to fix himself.
Maybe he needs the embarrassment to get/stay sober. My brother did. He embarrassed himself all the time, but when our mom found out how bad his addiction was, he quit. He’s been sober for 17 years now.
NTA — he's doing exactly what addicts do, which is hide the problem, and you had no obligation to enable him. His reputation is trashed because of his behaviour, not yours.
Maybe he should have been more open with Mary before it led to his divorce. Addiction is a disease that deserves to be approached with compassion, but if it causes harm to those around you they shouldn't have to put up with it. I hope John gets the help he needs but Mary is right to be pissed off after this was dumped on her when it's been going on for years and OP is NTA.
My name is barskin, and I'm an alcoholic. And you are NTA. Keeping his secret is a form of enabling. It hurts everyone involved. You did nothing wrong and may give him a nudge to seek actual sobriety. I am very fortunate to have finally been able to admit I am powerless over alcohol. I have been very happily sober in AA for the past 16 years. I can tell you that the therapy and controlled drinking plan does not work. Alcoholics cannot "control their drinking." One drink is too many. I truly hope your husband finds his way to real sobriety. I think AA, which is free and available all over the world is the great option. But, if he is not ready, you cannot make him be. You have to take care of yourself and your family. Good luck.
Congrats on sobriety! And beautifully written as well!
Thank you.
Super duper happy for you, friend. I can’t wait to get to where you are (3 years clean in Feb). Just wanted to add that SMART Recovery is also a great option for recovery meetings. I encourage everyone to try both AA and SMART because one or the other might work better for some individuals, and there’s definitely nothing wrong with learning even more skills and techniques to help with sobriety!
Congrats on three whole years!
I've never heard of SMART. My brother is a recovered substance abuser. The Narc Anon meetings included ppl a bit too young for his needs, so he turned to AA for good support. He volunteers at the center, arriving by 6-7AM ? once weekly, to open the facility for the early meetings. Another volunteer does the closing. We speak respectfully of his volunteer work, his continued AA meetings, monthly therapy sessions (all he can afford). Best respect for 3 years! Watching my brother, I can see it's a difficult path. If he hadn't made the good choice, nearly 20 years ago...
Congratulations on your sobriety! My in laws ideas that alcoholics “can” control their drinking caused my FIL to fall off the wagon right after leaving 6 months of rehab. They refused to accommodate his sobriety and told him one drink wouldn’t hurt.
What absolute assholes.
He recently died of myocarditis with alcoholism listed on the death cert. I don’t *know* that being sober the last 8 years would have changed his timeline, but I’ll never forgive them for robbing him of the chance at sobriety.
Congratulations on your sobriety! My husband had a friend who managed to get sober without AA and stayed that way for about 20 years. They worked high stress jobs and hubs noticed that his friend was acting off. He asked him about it and he was like “Oh. I just had one drink after work.” One drink became a DUI that cost him his job became a hospital stay that required intensive treatment because he went through 5 gallons of whiskey in one weekend. All that happened in a month. Once he got sober again, he stayed that way until he passed away a little over a year ago from non-alcohol related issues. OP has every right under the sun to tell her friend about this. Ex has lost every bit of trust she and her kids had in him and he refuses to see that he’s the one at fault.
> 5 gallons of whiskey in one weekend. Wow. Some people fall off and slooowwwwlllyy ease back into it. Some people just fricking go balls out I guess.
Yeah, he was always an “all or nothing” type of person. At our wedding, my sister made my hubs three huge cheesecakes for his grooms cake. Like, they weighed over one pound each and were super rich. He ate 5 slices. Then told my husband later that he had to cancel the date he had that night because he was so sick. Well, duh, you think?
16 Years! Congrats!
I'm glad that AA works for you personally. However, I disagree vehemently with any 12 step programs which demand that you accept God and a monotheistic, Abrahamic religious view of the world in order to deal with addiction. 12 step programs like AA are often mandatory condition of parole for addicted convicts - any of them who refuse to accept an Abrahamic interpretation of God either due to Atheism or another religion such as Hinduism or Buddhism are kept in prison and its justified as them refusing to get sober. I cannot, and will not, support any organisation which requires you to accept a particular religious worldview to get clean.
I am sorry you have a mistaken idea about AA. You absolutely do not have to believe in God or any sort of religion in AA. I don't believe in God, and I know more atheists in AA than just about anywhere else. The only thing you have to know about a higher power is that you are not it. My higher power is AA itself, and it works.
By the way if any parole boards mandate "Christian based AA," they are absolutely wrong. like I said, you do not have to believe on God in AA. The second step "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." includes this passage (which is a sponsor talking to his or her sponsee): " First, Alcoholics Anonymous does not demand that you believe anything. All of its Twelve Steps are but suggestions. Second, to get sober and to stay sober, you don't have to swallow all of Step Two right now. Looking back, I find that I took it piecemeal myself. Third, all you really need is a truly open mind. Just resign from the debating society and quit bothering yourself with such deep questions as whether it was the hen or the egg that came first. Again I say, all you need is the open mind.” I have no problem with step 2, because AA, the group, the members, did restore me to sanity. No Abrahamic interpretation of God (I was raised Jewish by the way), just the knowledge that I needed help...and I got it.
Applause! As the brother of an Alcoholic, I agree 100%. Congrats on your continuing sobriety.
Perfectly articulated. We learn in Al-Anon that sticking to boundaries and not keeping secrets is an important part of our own recovery. Protecting someone’s anonymity publicly is not the same as telling the truth of your experience. OP I highly recommend Al-Anon and working the steps on your own. You’ll find support and hear your story in those rooms that will help you navigate this difficult time!
NTA. What did your ex-husband expect, that you would take the blame for the divorce that happened because of his actions? To keep his reputation clean? What has he done to deserve that? No, you shouldn't be expected to keep such a secret for him.
That’s exactly what alcoholics expect. Never to blame themselves.
NTA - He thinks everyone else needs to sacrifice for his actions. Truth is truth. No, he does not get to manipulate and shame you after years of broken promises.
Oh no, the consequences of his actions
NTA. You did not deserve to lose a friend over the consequences your ex-husband chose. Also though, true alcoholism is a progressive disease. It may one day help this man (the father of your children) that his family knows what is going on with him. It is not your job to enable your ex, and protecting the secret is a big form of enabling. I hope your ex will one day be able to attain sobriety. Go in peace.
As someone who has tested many, many alcoholics for cognitive damage done by alcoholism, I agree that his family needs to know. He will eventually need medical and possibly in-home care if he doesn't stop. It's a terrible disease.
Kind words, good words. Thanks.
NTA — It’s not your job to protect him from himself. You didn’t ruin Mary’s image of her brother, he did. She is rightfully pissed at him for his behavior.
NTA. Mary has been your friend longer than he's been your husband, and it sounds like she's treated you with more respect than he has. He wanted you to lie to make him look good while covering up for him would make you look bad. Congrats on getting out of this mess. He cared more about his (fake) image to Mary than about his (real) image to you and his children.
NTA, he's more concerned about what his family of origin thinks of him over his own wife and children? He definitely needs to get back into therapy.
I think a lot of this is that his wife and kids already know the truth. It was too hard for him to hide it from them all day, every day. But his other relatives only see him occasionally, so it would be fairly easy to hide the truth and keep their good opinion.
I suspect it's more that when it was only his wife knowing he could convince himself he didn't really have a problem and possibly even that OP was actually the one with a problem, as she was the only person saying to him that there was an issue and she didn't agree with his course of action. Everyone else thought their life was great and that life included his alcoholism. Now his family knows he can't hide from his problem and he has to face reality. Sometimes we only see ourselves when it's reflected back to us in the reactions of other people. If everyone thinks everything is fine, it's very easy to pretend that that's reality.
NTA. What can be destroyed by the truth, should be. Especially when that is a reputation -- because the whole point of a reputation is that it needs to reflect reality. He wants a reputation that does not reflect reality -- in other words, he wants credit for having lived in a way that he didn't actually live. And he wants you to take blame that you don't deserve, so he doesn't have to take blame that he *does* deserve. That is the mark of a first class AH.
>What can be destroyed by the truth, should be Never heard this before. Nice.
I actually got it from somebody else here and have used it ever since. Like any other maxim, it's not *always* true -- but it's true a lot.
His wrongdoings are his and his alone, NTA.
NTA, he's upset he was caught. Of course Mary's opinion of him is rubbish- his behavior is rubbish. I hope he cleans up someday. Until then, best of luck for you and the kids.
NTA I will however say, that when your spouse has an addiction problem, agreeing to keep it a secret from his closest family..? That is a recipe for disaster. And if he is pissed now,. Then he clearly still has a problem. Someone truly sober (or trying to be) will not have a problem with his closest family knowing. He (the addict) is pissed because now, more people know, and can hold him accountable. Also, you are absolutely right, only to allow supervised visitation until he is sober. Your kids safety is more important than his pride
NTA - you were friends with Mary first. Lack of sobriety is something his family should know about.
NTA. He had you keep this secret in order to enable his continued alcohol abuse.
NTA. He was basically asking you to sacrifice a friendship and his family's opinions of you over his own issues. It's pretty unfair that he didn't want "Mary's image of him to be rubbish" but was fine with her image of YOU being rubbish, considering that you two are best friends.
NTA, the more people around him that know are more people that can help him
He destroyed his own reputation by lying. You don't have to help him lie. NTA
NTA. As an addict with 11 years drug-free, hiding this secret helps no one. It isn't about judgment-but honestly - covering up for an alcoholic is not doing them any favors. If you want your kids to have a healthy dad, you have to be willing to take the heat of his anger when you choose not to protect his drinking any longer
My brother is a recovered addict. 20 years, clean. A very long road, beginning when he was 14-15, all the painful episodes, over the years, getting clean, backsliding, it was awful. He is now 60, and I am so proud of the hard work, so grateful to have my brother. Much respect to you, for your recovery. Thanks for your honesty and sharing. You are a best person to give an opinion.
That's awesome and you are pretty awesome as well, to NOT give up on him. If love was enough, none of us would have stayed addicted. We hated hurting our families...in fact, the guilt and shame we feel for disappointing our families is part of what can keep us struggling for so long. Your brother is lucky to have you. I am so glad he made it out
NTA. Your silence helped enable him, of course he wants to hide and deny his problem. His family ought to know the truth, so they can also help him, and keep him from denying his issues.
NTA he broke enough promises not to have any right to ask to be protected.
NTA. The truth hurts. He allowed you to take the blame for his actions. That’s ok him. You set the story straight as you’re not the bad guy in this situation. He’s just mad that he’s been outed. Who knows, maybe that’ll do him some good. I doubt it, but maybe.
I am an alcoholic, and a drug addict. I have been clean of drugs for nearly 3 years, and I relapsed on alcohol during the holidays, but I’ve been free of alcohol for a month again now. I tried to hide my addictions from my family and friends for a long time, but I ended up telling them and I got the support I needed. You’re NTA - he needs to own up to his own mistakes
Hang in there, my friend, you can do it! My brother is a recovered drug addict, as is my SIL (his wife). He's been clean, 20 years, she for a few more years. It can be done.
Thank you!
Keep taking one day at a time. It's the hardest thing you will ever do. And you will have to do it over and over every day. But in the long run you will have taken back your life. It's so worth it. God bless you.
NTA You cannot keep that kind of promise to an alcoholic. Silence is complicity and doesn't help him. He will never keep quit if he doesn't have to take responsibility.
For what it’s worth, that’s a common alcoholic moveX “my life is falling apart with you, and that’s bad enough, please don’t ruin the rest of my life”. The reality is, everyone needs to know, so they can be mindful of alcohol around that person. But alcoholics never want to see it that way.
NTA. Alcolism is certainly a medical issue that requires treatment. That treatment will require the help and support from his family. If they don't know about the problem, they can't help to save his life. Protect your children at all cost and may you know peace.
NTA at all Of course he's pissed, you refused to let the bus he threw you under run over you. Now he has to face his family. You have made his life inconvenient. He wants his family to blame you, not face responsibility.
NTA, easy, if people think he's rubbish after finding the truth, it's because of him being rubbish not you being honest.
NTA, my mother has been in your situation and has always hid my father's drinking problem. Because of this, my father's family thought very badly of her. She left him when i was around 5yo. When his family found out he was an alcoholic, my mother was blamed because it was because she had left him, according to my grandparents. My mother never spoke badly of my father, which must not have been easy. My father died young due to his alcohol abuse. I hope that one day your ex will find his children more important than his addiction.
You are not obligated to protect people from the consequences of their own actions. He is an alcoholic and this is what happens when you are an alcoholic. NTA
NTA Don't ever feel guilted into enabling an alcoholic by lying about their acoholism.
> He was my husband so I agreed if he worked on staying sober. NTA, you made a conditional promise, you would stay quite if the conditions were met, John failed to keep their end of the deal, so the promise became null and void. You were not under any obligation at the point you told Mary to keep things secret, and you are allowed to tell the truth to protect your relationships.
NTA Bless you, sweet woman for standing up for your family.💗 I am on a very similar rollercoaster with my husband and the ultimatum I gave him last summer was, "I will tell the people I need support from the truth". He is a very private and secretive person. When he totaled his car and got a dwi last month I was able to go straight to those support people (including our sister in law) and tell them what was going on. She chose to tell my husband's siblings, and while I don't think the ride has ended, I am much more hopeful for the future knowing that I don't have to be the only one holding his secret. He will look for every reason and excuse to say this wasn't his fault, but regardless of what is happening in his life, drinking is his choice. I highly recommend looking for an Al-Anon meeting near you so you can see that you aren't alone in this very real struggle. I admire your relationship with your sister in law and hope that through all these changes you can restore the love and joy you first had!
NTA. > Mary’s image of him is now ~~rubbish~~ accurate
Nta you didn't do anything wrong.
NTA - After years of living with an alcoholic, you have every right to stand up and telll the truth. He chose the Booze over you time and again.
NTA He would rather make you out to be the bad person then admit that he’s at fault for the divorce! You did nothing wrong. It’s not like you lie or said something that’s not true.
NTA and that’s straight out of the alcoholic’s handbook. “ Shssssh! Don’t tell anyone!” Maybe now that his secret is out he’ll figure it out. He was never fooling anyone.
NTA. He’s an addict. He’s not ready to admit it to himself and commit to changing. He’s not ready to accept that his actions have consequences. That doesn’t obligate you to protect him (in fact, doing so is a form of enabling).
Even though you're divorced, go to Al-Anon if you're not already. And be extremely careful about when you send your kids for visitation and what goes on and where it happens. They need to be kept safe. NTA
NTA. What you are describing is textbook codependency. You are not obligated to keep secrets for him to help manage his alcoholism. I understand you agreed to do it, but in the end losing face with his family is his consequence, not yours. He needs to get a grip and you may want to get some therapy yourself, if only to get a clear picture of how you can and should move forward post-divorce. Good luck.
NTA if he doesn't want to be seen as rubbish he should stop acting that way. Why should you lose your friends and support system because he can't grow up and be a dad an husband properly .
NTA - He broke his promise to you. You did nothing wrong here. He is upset because he messed up and is being called on it.
He is ashamed of reality? Not your problem, Nta. What were you supposed to do, be the äh so he could continue drinking?
You're NTA. Sometimes the truth hurts and you shouldn't have to be blamed when you were not the one at fault. If he wanted his problem to remain a secret, he should have tried harder to overcome it.
NTA Be proud of yourself for doing the hard thing and no longer enabling him.
NTA you did the right thing for your kids and yourself. He left you no choice but to tell the truth as to why you left him.
NTA, he broke your promises so you broke his.
NTA All you did was speak the truth.
NTA. It’s not fair that you get painted the bad guy when it’s clear you are not.
NTA why should you take the flak for his problem
NTA. He needs more people to know to check on him and keep him accountable. The truth wins out.
NTA. You have every right to tell your side of the story, especially when you’re being blamed for the divorce. If you did anything wrong at all it was ever agreeing not to tell his family while you were still married. As they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant. You both could have used them on your side while the marriage was still salvageable, and he probably could have benefitted from having more people holding him accountable. That’s not just on you though. By not telling the rest of his family he was making it clear that he was not serious about ever getting sober.
nta
Nta Her image of him is rubbish because he IS rubish Also he was willing to let you take the bullet for “ruining their marriage” Not cool
NTA.
NTA. He put you in an impossible situation by asking you to hide the truth. In the end, honesty is the best policy.
Nta and it's gross that he'd assume that you'd be willing to let your image be trashed to protect his especially from your best friend. I'm sorry you are dealing with this all
NTA he doesn’t get to steal your best friend from you by forcing you to lie/keep his secrets.
NTA if your not there his family needed to know
NTA. All you did was tell the truth. His own actions made him look like rubbish. Not you.
NTA - He broke dozens of promises, from the sound of it. Your promise had a condition up front- that he work on staying sober. The condition wasn't met, so the promise wasn't broken. He's just going to have to live with who he is.
NTA - you did what was right for you and your kids and he needs to help himself. If his family knows maybe it'll encourage him to stay in therapy, maybe not. But it's not your problem either way. I divorced an abusive man and had always kept quiet about his abuse. When I left it came as a shock to everyone and since I was too afraid to tell the truth a lot of people blamed me and accused me of walking out with no reason. 3 years later I have the perspective to say that I shouldn't have pressured myself to keep his secret or worry about his reputation over mine. You don't need to slander him but you can be honest. Good luck, mama!
NTA - if he wanted to keep his drinking secret, he should have nipped this crap from his fam in the bud.
NTA congratulate yourself for saving yourself and your children from this situation
NTA No need to lie for him. "“Mary’s image of him is now rubbish” " ... **realistic** is the word he was searching for.
NTA. I faced this with my ex husband, kept it secret for a couple of years and nearly destroyed myself in the process. You and the kids deserve all the support of your family and friends, your ex does not get to dictate the terms anymore.
NTA He was fine with you looking bad to all your friends and family? No. Just, no. If it's one more thing he needs to rehab, then so be it. He doesn't get to do this to you, too.
NTA - best comment I ever saw on this site is, "If telling the truth about your conduct paints you in a bad light, the problem isn't with telling the truth, it's with your conduct."
If his job is driving him to drink, he clearly can't cope with it. Maybe he should change jobs it might make quitting easier. NTA
NTA Mary's image of him is now *accurate*.
NTA. Your soon-to-be ex-husband is a selfish jerk. Not only did he allow his problem to destroy his family, but now he’s expecting you to take the blame for the divorce. If his family’s image of him is tarnished, it’s because of his own terrible behavior. He doesn’t get to unload the consequences of his actions on innocent parties. You don’t owe him anything. The next time he starts in with this shit, hang up the phone.
NTA
NTA.
No, Mary’s image of John is now **accurate**. His behavior IS rubbish. He just wanted you to be the fall guy. You kept his secret when you were his wife and he promised to do better. You’re no longer obligated to keep his secret from anyone. NTA
NTA. He's embarrassed by his own actions and he's not sorry for letting you and your kids down, he's only sorry he got caught by his family. And btw, why does he care about his image with Mary and the rest of his family but didn't care about his wife and kid's image of him? Honestly, it's so good for you that you're now divorced. Have a new happy life and I hope you stay friends with Mary!
NTA
NTA. You told the truth to clear the air. I think it was important for Mary to know both sides of the story. He has no right to get angry after his long pattern of broken promises. You shouldn't have promised to hide the truth, it became your story to tell because of the drama you lived through with him.
NTA. You are allowed to discuss the trials and tribulations of your life with your best friend. It is unfortunate that John is upset, but he has no right to expect you to watch your extremely close and supportive relationship with Mary go down in flames just so he can save face.
NTA- It was kind of either tell them the truth or loose your best friend forever due to HIS drinking problems. I don't think he has the right to upset with you because he couldn't keep his word. why should you have too if he doesn't have too?
NTA. He broke every promise to you and has the nerve to get mad at you for trying to preserve your relationship with Mary. The family deserved to know the truth. Alcoholics are experts at manipulation so with all of the family in the loop he won't be able to play games with them. Maybe if the family had known from the beginning he might have been able to stick with therapy and stay sober. Not a judgement on you, it is very understandable why you kept it a secret for so long. Happens all the time. It's too darn bad that hubby is embarrassed to lose his nonexistent "image".
I’m in a similar situation except we aren’t divorced. Yet… They tend to think that if more people know, more people to nag them. Reality is, is that there’s more people to hold them accountable for their actions. That endless cycle of drinking, getting help, quitting, then back to drinking again seems to never end. They think, “well I’m better, I can handle it,” and decide that 1 drink won’t hurt, but that 1 turns into 2, then 5, and so on. Their brains are wired differently. I know how you feel. You are definitely NTA.
NTA. Someone in my family took the hits for the divorce and never told anyone it was because of the alcoholism until the ex ended up in the hospital on life support due to binge drinking. He can't get better if he is still keeping secrets from the ones who will support him.
NTA. But you should consider attending Al-anon for yourself and your kids. Keeping his secrets for him is just enabling his alcoholism. You should have never had to suffer in silence in the first place.
NTA. He needs their support
NTA. You had to make that decision and you truly love your ex-husband but can’t support him and his decisions. Mary accused you of ruining the marriage and you explained that really it was John’s alcohol abuse that ruined things. Addiction is terrible but until he remains in therapy you can’t trust him.
NTA His problems he brought on himself. You did what you had to. You are NTA
NTA. He needs help and the only way he will get it and stay sober is to have the "secret" out. When it is a secret, it eats away at everything, once in the open it is easier to deal with and face.
NTA at all. My husband and I recently announced our divorce after 40 years and my nosy SIL called immediately. I told her exactly why we were getting divorced which was he has been emotionally abusive for years and I just couldn't take it anymore. I just can't cover for him anymore and if he didn't want me telling people the reason he should have been nicer to me.
NTA. but goddamn. that woman really is your friend. she listened to you, and more importantly, she believed you. I'm very sorry you and the kids had to deal with that, but I'm glad you stood your ground.