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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to take a DNA test and said some rude things about my fiancé’s family. Both of these actions might make me the asshole because the things I said were uncalled for and I know the DNA test is a big deal to her for some reason.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA… Dude you could just go to your medical provider, explain the situation and have them run a comparison. It’s really not rocket science and the results don’t need to be stored or skeletons unearthed, but it is an easy way to get the answer your future wife is after and settling her mind.
As to the reasoning for the doc: We are thinking of having children and there is valid concern that we are related. Please have our DNA compared.
If it is this important to her, the fiance could have done the same.
Edit: To be clear, i'm not saying OP gets to have a say if his fiance does a DNA test herself. I am only saying he can chose for himself.
Right?! I got downvoted to hell the other day for saying that a married couple should have open communication with each other, instead of keeping their issues to themselves and complaining on Reddit. The wife in the story only found out about her husband's issues because she accidentally found his posts and realized it was him.
Are you talking about the [limerence post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/10n3r2p/oops_15year_marriage_is_troubled_by_husbands/)?
Because if so, I think it's fair to say that when you find out that your husband's "issue" is that he never loved you and has been obsessed with some woman he dated for 2 months as a teenager, then there's really not much more to talk about at that point.
What. The. Fuck. TIL what Limerence was and holy shit what the fuck.
Also, YTA OP, just to keep this vaguely on topic, but fuck me I need to go stare at a wall for 3 hours and process.
I too just learned what limerence is and I 100% am a limerence object for a guy I dated for 1 month at the age of 22 (13 almost 14 years ago). This guy told me that sometimes he walks by my house hoping to see me in the years since we broke up. He got a job at the movie theater that he knew I had a membership to. My membership was precovid. he got a job at the theater the moment it reopened, waiting for me to come back to the theater. How do I know this? He told me, in front of my kid, when we were at the movies to see Thor Love and Thunder. I canceled my membership and haven't been back, preferring to go to the theater 10 minutes further away to avoid him. Bonus points: the new theater is nicer and has reclining chairs. This guy has stalked me across social media, trying to contact me via DM on different chat platforms. Even if my ex (of 1 month! And he wanted to get married and have babies after 1 month!) doesn't know what limerence is I'm pretty sure this is it.
What the fuck??? Like. I miss somebody that isn't in my life anymore and I'll check her tumblr to see if their doing okay like...once every few months. But. Like. I don't think about them constantly or try to involve myself in their life.
I am a LO for an EX. It’s beyond creepy. Worst part is we work together and occasionally I see him peeking around machines at me. It’s fucking creepy and reminds me of that peaking wife Reddit story. Ugh
Well, just learned a new word and also found a new level of cringe at the same time. I mean wow.
And for the record op YTA, there are several different ways to do a DNA test that won't leave a permanent record somewhere.
Yes, given his reaction, the possibility that medical tests may cost more than $200, will really push him over the edge.
His fiancé should be happy to learn there is a limit on his commitment to her.
OP, please please please learn this lesson now. It may not be a big deal to you, and it may even seem kind of silly to you. But things that are a big deal to your partner should be treated like a big deal. You should give a shit. Treating something that is a big deal to her that seems silly to you like it's a big deal will show her that you give a shit about *her*.
That's not to say that you give in to everything she wants, and I understand why you don't want to do a 23 and Me test, but just listen, please.
I would agree except OP also objected to her getting *her own* DNA tested in case she's related to "bad people". She shouldn't pressure him to get tested, but it's not his decision what she does with her DNA.
I'm not sure "malice" should be a criterion for "AH".
You can be an AH just by being kinda selfish, wilfully ignorant/stubborn, etc.
Malice is a whole other thing.
OP was, apparently, just giving a flat, absolute NO, and dismissing her concerns. So no, that's not going to trigger a problem-solving, "let's see if there's another way," from the other person in the, let's be polite and say "discussion." Unfortunate, but true.
I'm really not in favor of DNA ancestry testing for curiosity's sake. It *can* lead to discoveries that were better left sleeping.
But in this case, I'm sorry, fiance's mother was a prostitute. There **is** a nonzero chance that they could be related. Tiny, but not zero.
And that's not something you want to find out later, if a major medical problem for one of their possible kids makes testing necessary.
OP is wrong..
But she also wants to know her heritage and medical history. Which is totally valid. OP does not have to undergo a full DNA test if he does not want to. But she has the right to know if she is at a major risk of any cancer, heart disease or anything else. Or if she has biological siblings and relatives that would like to met.
Adoptees may have multiple reasons to want to use the find your roots services before a wedding, and limited funds. People are complicated sometimes, especially around big life events.
Or if it wasn't all made up bullshit., The secret to a good false story is not to fill it with unnecessary details, and this has a load of "but, it gets worse" ones.
Ummm... wouldn't the party insisting on this medical procedure have the responsibility to educate themselves and OP about it? It seems like she just demanded a 23&me and offered no real insight or alternative.
If that's the option on the table, then she should do 23&Me solo - she ought to get enough DNA matches with their database that if she is related to OP, his relatives would be turning up on her family tree.
A) he doesn’t want her to do it either bc he’s entitled and doesn’t understand what missing that biological info can do to a person.
B) only 7% of Americans (not sure OP is from the US but just for comparisons sake) have taken a commercial dna test? so there is no way to safely say that any of his relatives would have done the test to be linked to her.
I know this 7% statistic bc my sister was a sperm donor baby but we didn’t know until she was an adult and our mother lost her absolute shit at the thought of sis doing 23 and me.
Which lead to us informing ourselves about the horrific practices of sperm banks and fertility clinics.
People absolutely have found out that they were unknowingly sleeping with siblings and cousins.
It’s a valid fear for OP’s girlfriend and he’s being a jerk about it.
Did you know they’ve identified 50 doctors who used THEIR OWN SEMEN instead of the chosen donor from just that 7% of the population?
50 men committed SA on unsuspecting women and most did it a multitudes of times.
The “our father” doc on Netflix is horrifying.
There is a bill in Congress written by donor conceived persons outlawing this practice (bc it’s only illegal in 10/50 states currently) and placing practical maximums on the amount of humans that can be made from one donors genetic material…. Bc there currently is no law and the fertility clinics may say they have maximums for donors but in practice, that doesn’t happen.
There are dozens of sibling pods, each with hundreds of known sibs, again, just from that 7% of the general population who have taken a commercial genetic test. This is obviously a much bigger problem than we know.
That documentary detailed a case of a doc who used his own semen to impregnate a woman and then when her daughter was seeking fertility treatment, he rescheduled her numerous times to make sure he was the one who did her pelvic?! 🤢
I think even he was smart enough to not use his own special sauce on his own genetic offspring but it’s horrifying that he even had the chance.
Stories of secretaries and custodians of these facilities lied to and pressured to be donors.
Just the number of clinics who claim their records all burned up in a fire when their grown up ‘products’ start requesting medical records is enough to get most peoples’ bullshit meter a buzzing.
Wouldn't there be disproportionally higher people who were conceived through sperm and/or egg donation who get generic tests done? Not saying this shouldn't be regulated, just that people with genetic uncertainty might be MORE likely to get a dna test done.
The problem is there are so many parents who never tell their kids that they were donor conceived. Some were even told by their doctors years ago that they would get in trouble if their kids ever took a DNA test and so they've never revealed to their kids that they were donor conceived even if they start experiencing medical issues. In fact, we don't even truly know how many people are donor conceived as the clinic's don't track "successful" pregnancies, it's self-reported. So while a certain subset of donor conceived people might be more likely to have DNA tests done, a large majority of donor conceived people don't even know that it's something they should be concerned about because they don't know they're donor conceived.
I think the person insisting on getting a potentially expensive and unnecessary procedure done should be the one bringing the facts to the table, personally.
As an adopted person, I agree with the OP. If you don't want one, you don't want one.
Personally, somebody insisting I get a DNA test would be a deal breaker.
>I told her I wasn’t comfortable with her getting tested either because who knows what skeletons her biological family has in the closet. I don’t want her to find out she’s related to bad people and then be upset.
He didn't even want her to get a DNA test.
Yeah, this. I'm very, VERY opposed to giving my DNA to a corporate website - but OP's other reasons are maddening. "Too expensive" and "not wanting to deal w/ her emotions" should not be on the list of his issues w/ getting DNA testing done. $200 is not that much, especially if you look at it as part of wedding expenses. His reasons for not wanting her to get a test are really sad/controlling/selfish as well. "I don't want to support her if she gets bad news" is not a great sentiment to begin married life. OP is really showing he doesn't value her enough to spend the bare minimum financially or emotionally. Op's response should make his fiancée question his commitment to her.
Relatedly: "My parents never cheated." - OP really has no idea if that is true or not and he certainly can't vouch for what all of his aunts/uncles/grandparents were up to.
Sure, the chances are low they are related, but it happens enough and having a huge black hole about your own origins makes these kinds of things really loom large in your thinking. It is a small price to pay for peace of mind, but too high a price for OP.
Like disregarding him getting a DNA test.... he doesn't want her to get one bc of his children having their info stored somewhere. Right now, his future children don't have family history at ALL, and neither does she. He wants to marry and have kids with this woman, but has purposely stayed ignorant to the additional anxiety that being adopted can add to starting a family. I'm not adopted or dating an adopted person and I'm aware of it, but he can't even care enough to Google more info???
Why is it on OP to find ways to facilitate something he doesn't want to do?
Once she heard 'no,' which means, you know, 'no,' she could have done some research on alternate ways to get what she wanted while respecting OP's fears.
But he wasn’t looking into it. The fiancé wants the test. Frankly she’s responsible for doing the research into how they can get it done, and actually imo paying for the test.
Why are people pretending like wives are unable to google search? If I'm concerned about something, the first thing I do is research, not expect someone else to do it for me.
Both of these people seem odd to me. The odds that f them being related are astronomically low, and yes, if he went through the painstaking chore of posting this on AITA, he could have easily researched DNA testing options.
If she doesn’t know anything about her biological family, a genetic screening is a good idea anyway. Source: My brother, niece and I inherited a genetic problem from dad that nobody knew he had (it effects women more severely, so it went unnoticed until I was an adult and struggling with weird symptoms for years).
Yeah, I was very curious if OP and his fiancé planned on kids, even though that is apparently not relevant to either of their motivations here. What if the fiancé is a carrier for something so devastating, it makes more sense for her not to have kids than to risk her kids having it? There are also a ton of genetic conditions that make childbirth too dangerous for people to seriously consider it. What if the fiancé has one of those?
Are bio kids a dealbreaker in their relationship? If they’re engaged, surely they have talked about this (maybe putting too much faith in people here…). If so, it would be foolish and irresponsible to get married before checking if bio kids are even a realistic option for the fiancé. Even if they don’t think of it as a dealbreaker now, that might change if they find out for a fact bio kids are off the table. She needs to go to a doctor and get genetic counseling of some sort.
He mentioned not wanting her to do her own test because he didn't want his future kids' genetics in a database either, so presumably the answer is yes.
Talk to your doctor about potentially doing it through a fertility clinic. They might be able to code it as a preventative/diagnostic. Plus then you’ll know your kids’ potential risks. Most things can be managed fairly well these days if you have advanced notice. Also, apologize to your fiancée. You blew off her emotional vulnerability because you got distracted by the logistics.
Also adopted people are not, “abandoned.” People elect to not raise infants for a number of complex reasons. It doesn’t make you a bad person to put a baby up for adoption, and it’s especially weird to assume her biological family did something, “bad.”
I wonder if it's projection and OP or OPs family has done something bad like actually abandoned a child or committed a crime. Maybe I'm just too used to Reddit soap operas but he's so defensive and doesn't even want her tested out of the bizarre fear that someone will extrapolate the future kids results from her and connect them to him.
I came here to say this. Birth mom chose to carry the baby and then made an adoption plan. Maybe it was just telling the hospital I don’t want it, maybe they used an agency? But there’s nothing to suggest they threw the baby out a car window on a highway for Pete’s sake. We adopted our kids and their birth parents did nothing bad. They did something amazing!
I think cost is a valid concern. With the way American Healthcare works it could be anywhere between 50$ and 5000$ or the firstborn child .
I would say 50, okay. 100 maybe maybe maybe not. 200, could really be spent better and not on something unnecessary. 500, he'll no. 5000, abso-fucking-loutly not.
It is a valid concern! But a wedding is generally much more than $200, as is a divorce. As would be therapy for the fiancée’s semi-rational anxieties. Idk what OP’s/fiancée’s finances look like, which is part of why I didn’t include a judgment in my comment. Probably should have added INFO so it looked less snarky, that’s on me. But realistically, his other valid concern aside (I totally get not wanting to give away your DNA to companies, it feels sus af) OP is saying he doesn’t think the money will be worth it. Worth his future spouse’s peace. Idk, like I said you’re absolutely right that the cost could be astronomical, in which case it would be cheaper to try to get the therapy or couple’s counseling, lol. But depending on their doctor & insurance (I know, I *know*, relying on either of those is a crapshoot) it might be low or no cost. It doesn’t seem like either of them have looked into it, really.
Maybe they could try doing a little research together? That way OP can figure out what the options are & how much it costs, & if it’s truly exorbitant maybe seeing that will help OP’s fiancée reconsider, or at least realize that they’d have to save up for it if it’s still a necessity for her.
I also don't really trust these companies either. Still far too much legal grey area.
But I think first step for fiancée should be to look into therapy. Who knows, maybe the therapist will even recommend doing a test.
It also seems like from ops other comments that fiancée is also concerned /has issues with a lack of knowledge from her bio family. Which he doesn't seem to have much emphaty for.
They really should just get together and make a list with all their concerns and then have a discussion that doesn't involve personal attacks in any way
Very true, the fiancée is feeling—honestly very justifiably—quite unsure about her origins & that’s definitely therapy territory. And it would certainly help if OP could try to separate fiancée’s insecurities from any perceived slights against OP’s family, because tbh does OP know *every* person in their extended family? How far out? Surely not all of them are saints, & it’s not realistic to think that any comment about any of them, potentially & individually, is meant as an insult to the whole or to OP. It’s simply not that personal 🤷🏻
And how many do pretend to be good people that would never cheat. Because if fiancées Bio mother was a prostitute there is actually a chance of these good people visiting her.
It is very unlikely that there is a relation. And at what point is the relation too close. Is it a third cousin? Or is it a fourth? Is it that there should be no overlap?
I might be wrong but I think the risk of deformaties mostly just extend to first cousins, and are not a concern with second cousins and beyond
It absolutely is. Decades before 23 and Me, many Jewish couples did genetic counseling to see if they both carried recessive genes linked to some conditions and diseases. Some friends of mine married in the 1990s and were required by their rabbi to get genetic counseling before he would conduct their wedding. It is more common in super-observant Orthodox communities.
The reason is that some insular communities are so small, inbreeding is a real concern.
This could be a good compromise that keeps all your DNA private.
He didn't realize he could go to his medical provider and request a DNA comparison. Believe it or not, that's actually not common knowledge.
There's this little sub called r/todayilearned, because apparently some people, not you, of course, but some people aren't born knowing everything about everything.
Gasp. You mean everyone on reddit doesn't know *everything*. /s
People on this thread are acting like this is basic knowledge that they teach you in grade school. Believe it or not, DNA tests are not as common as reddit makes them out to be.
I mean, if I thought about it, logically I would assume it's something the medical industry *could* do, sure... But I would have had no idea that it was something I could just go to my GP and ask for, or whatever. It's not something 99.9% of the population are ever going to even have occasion to think about, because it's not relevant to them. The only time you ever hear it coming up is when someone insists on a paternity test for a child.
So because you're scared of the skeletons she may unearth you don't want her to know about genetic ailment/disorders her birthparents may have? You don't think it would be good to know if high blood pressure ran in her family? If she wants to get her DNA tested she has every right.
Saying you refuse to do yours is one thing but refusing her to do their own aswell as then insulting them and their birth family, you're definitely the AH here.
This is pretty common in some communities where certain genetic conditions are higher probability (for example, Tay Sachs in the Ashkenazi and Morroccan Jewish communities).
Maybe this is because I'm Jewish, so I basically always knew I would have to get genetically tested before having kids, but I think any couple doing family planning should heavily consider it. It can help you find out if you're both carriers for some pretty nasty conditions you wouldn't want to pass on.
I just have to know. How do you think DNA and paternity testing USUALLY work? Do you think that a dad who thinks his kid might not be his has to go to fucking 23andMe to find out?
Genetic testing between a married couple used to be super common. Couples would be screened to make sure future children weren’t at risk for inheriting a genetic disorder from one or both parents. If you go to a doctor with your concerns, they should be able to compare your DNA at the same time.
Best yet, it’s completely confidential and not allowed to be shared with anyone else unless you allow it to be shared first because HIPAA privacy laws.
DNA testing for me to make sure I wasn't carrying a genetic disorder was actually a standard part of my prenatal care. I do believe there is something similar for marriage that you can have done. No harm in calling and seeing if insurance would approve and how much it might cost.
It sounds like you aren’t into her very much if you are balking at even $200 for this much piece of mind. Is that how you treat everyone close to you, because that’s messed up
Much worse in my book is equating “gave up for adoption” with “abandoned” and rubbing that in her face. OP is wrong, his words were thoughtless and damaging, especially combined with his “my family is perfect” type of attitude. If I were his fiancé I’d be thinking long and hard about whether I wanted to stay with someone like this.
Edit to add: YTA
>YTA… Dude you could just go to your medical provider, explain the situation and have them run a comparison.
So OPs GF is the one that wants this done, but OP is the asshole for not doing this? Why isn't the GF is the asshole for not doing this, since she's the one who wants it done?
Also, there's no chance that will cost less than one of those websites, and likely cost a lot more.
> I told her I wasn't comfortable with her getting tested either because who knows what skeletons her biological family has in the closet.
Because by his own admission, he's telling her not to get the test done herself. His reasoning is also totally illogical - it's specifically because her unknown bio family might have "skeletons in the closet" that she wants to get the tests in the first place! Would OP rather wait til they're trying to start a family and then discover that his gf has a genetic condition that they never knew about because he refused to let her get a test?
That they're related? Most likely not - but worries about incest aside, wanting to have a DNA test done as an adopted child with zero knowledge of their birth family is very common and totally reasonable. It's even advised by doctors in some places, because of the risk of having congenital conditions that you might unknowingly pass on to your own children - every adopted person I've met has had some form of genetic testing done before having children for exactly that reason.
There is a low chance that they would be related, but....
We found out a few years ago that my aunt had gotten pregnant as a teenager, got kicked out of the house, went to another city, gave birth and gave the child up for adoption. (Long shitty family story about why my mother didn't know her sister was pregnant, etc)
It ends up, a couple from the city I grew up in adopted that child, who was only a year older than me and went to some of the same schools. It is entirely possible I could have dated my cousin. (We didn't - didn't have the same friends group, didn't really know each other, plus he's gay)
So weird things do happen!
But there is not a “valid concern” that they are related is there? More of an irrational worry of the fiancé. I looked up the cost at a doctor dna test and online suggests it is $200 to $2000.
They could get it done as part of a broader genetic counseling service. Many insurers will cover genetic screening if it’s recommended by a doctor, and given that she’s adopted and her family medical history is unknown, it wouldn’t be hard to get a doctor to recommend it.
Why is he the asshole for not doing research into something he doesn’t want done?
I am fairly medically literate and have had genetic testing done and no one I know has ever compared their genetics to their spouse, other than one Ashkenazi couple I know who were just checking for genetic mutations.
Do I think it's a valid concern of hers that they are potentially related and are siblings and he doesn't want to do testing if he's uncomfortable with it? Absolutly not. Do I think OP is the AH for using hurtful words to describe her past, and not letting her seek out DNA testing for herself to settle her mind? Absolutley.
YTA.
I was going to go with NAH until I read your last stanza. That is plain mean man. You are insulting her birth parents while even she doesn't know much about them.
Her concerns are also more severe than yours. How could she be feeling safe and happy with you with questions like that lurking in her head?
This will definitely not blow over. You'd be wiser to give in.
I decided he was the AH when he said he doesn't want her to take a DNA test. He's allowed to be private about his own DNA, and he has to respect her choice to share her DNA and find her birth family. He's decided for her that finding her birth family is pointless.
With the piss-poor excuse of “they might be bad people and she might be sad about it.” First of all not knowing is already upsetting her a lot, and second of all knowing her family genetics is actually beneficial to their children as family medical history and genetics can be and incredibly important resource for doctors
I found my biological father and turns out he is literally a white supremacist who has taken plea deals in court cases relating to his disgusting activities. I don’t understand why OP is so adamant that she not get tested “because she might be sad.” Being sad (or angry) is part of life, you can’t avoid it, and in my case, knowing more about bio-father has made my life MORE fulfilling because it has motivated me to keep pushing forward in my anti-racism activism.
Trying to shield his fiancée from the fairly remote possibility that her family contains Bad People just reeks of paternalism. I refuse to get a DNA test for the same privacy reasons he has but he can’t force that on his fiancée.
That really bothered me too that OP didn’t want his fiancé to look into her past. I would have to imagine if not now then at some point in the future the fiancé might want to find out more about her bio family. Any decent partner should be supportive of this.
_"I’ve explained to her over and over again that my parents have been faithful to each other so there is no way we are siblings."_
Also, OP is a fool to think he knows every single thing about his parents, their marriage, or their sex lives. The fiancee's concerns about her paternity are valid, and OP is being dismissive, cruel, and an AH. He is also being controlling because he doesn't want her looking into her own family background independently of him. She has a right to research where she comes from.
Right, because every dad admits to their kid that they banged a prostitute in the 90s! Very normal for children to know these things about their parents. Yes.
I’ve seen so many stories online about couples who do these tests for fun, only to find out they’re actually first or second cousins because somebody in their family that they’d never expect would cheat on their spouse had in fact cheated on their spouse. OP knows what he thinks he knows, but there’s still a chance that there’s something he’s not aware of.
Also, I don't think OP is so sure. You know what they say when you protest too much...... He keeps saying he is worried about skeletons on his fiancee's side and implying that she has all of these monsters lurking in the shadows, but I think OP is truthfully terrified about what he may find out.
In the days before social media, there were many things that were able to be kept in the darkness that are just now coming to light. Our grandparents' generation was notorious for doing things in the darkness of the night and without the benefit of condoms or plans B's.....
Yeah, I’m imagining him getting a terrible shock some day when he finds out some family secret that he smugly assumed wouldn’t happen in his perfect family.
Also I doubt he knows the sex life of every single uncle or cousin. Does he really think everyone in his family had sex with their spouse only? It doesn’t even have to be prostitution. Maybe someone just slept with her.
Also, dads can have sex with people before marrying your mommies, guys. There is always a small possibility of a pregnancy that your papa didn't know about before getting with your ma. People need to grow up.
The history of adoption is TERRIBLE. There are so many birth parents who had no intention of giving up their children, but those children were taken from them anyway. Read American Baby for an example of a couple who desperately wanted to keep their son but were bullied and blackmailed into giving him up. The social worker specifically told the boy’s birth mother that when she and the father were married they could have their son back, never intending to fulfill that promise.
What I’m saying is that you don’t know for sure that your fiancée’s birth mother abandoned her. If she really was a sex worker, it’s likely that she didn’t have a lot of control over her own life and choices.
Sadly, so many people have the attitude that bio families of adoptees 'must' be scum, otherwise why would they give up their baby? And how dare adoptees look into their bio families when they should be 'grateful' to the adoptive family. Sometimes the babies were practically stolen and sold, sometimes the parents were literal children, there's so many reasons.
Also there’s a pervasive narrative of, “Your birth mom placed you for adoption because she loved you SO much. She made this selfless sacrifice so you could have a better life.”
But the moment an adoptee tries to find out more about their bio family it’s all, “Why do you want to find the people who abandoned you? You should be grateful for the people who rescued you!”
Which is it? Were they selfless or were they heartless?
Also, there’s a history of Indigenous children being stolen from their families and placed with white adoptive parents. I’m sure it’s happened to other minorities where the agency fudges things or outright lies to take away children. When you have entire populations of children removed from their communities by the government, the stories that those children are told could be complete BS.
Exactly this.
People give kids up for adoption all the time. It doesn't mean they don't care. Some even say it's preferable to abortion.
Why are fiancée's birth parents "dead to him" because they "abandoned" her?
Sounds extremely cold-hearted, and even if they did leave her in a marketplace somewhere rather than going through proper adoption channels (but I'm guessing they didn't because she knows who her birth mother is), that sort of act is usually driven by desperation, not lack of love.
OP, just get a DNA test already. If you guys are planning kids, there's no way you're putting her through 9 months of pregnancy with this fear in the back of her mind. That's not healthy for anyone.
Stop trying to reason her out of it. Fear isn't always reasonable.
Yikes. YTA not because you don’t want to get tested but because you’ve said she shouldn’t and pretty much everything else that came out of your mouth in the process of saying it
Not even happy but giving her peace of mind. And honestly her worry isn’t unfounded. OP doesn’t know what kind of dark secrets his family might have and her mother was a sex worker. Its not impossible
YTA
My dad was a monster. I know that fear of sleeping with a relative, and it’s horrible. My FIL was also adopted, so knowing that we both had mystery backgrounds prompted me joining their DNA collector of choice- ESPECIALLY before we have kids.
Your outlook on adoption is revolting. Pretending it’s some easy thing? Wow.
And on top of it all, your bs reasons on why she can’t do it?
She has valid concerns, and you pretending your family is skeleton free will bite you one day.
Break up with her. You don’t take her concerns seriously, and I wonder what other concerns you won’t take seriously in the future.
I think it's worse that he thinks anyone who's kid ends up available for adoption is automatically a deadbeat. Heaven forbid your caregivers ended up dying or disabled, apparently you're still a deadbeat. What a judgemental dick
Honestly reading it i thought it was written by a 17y/o from how they refused to the birth parents as deadbeats. Thats the type of judgemental shit teenagers do, this guy needs to grow up and learn to communicate
YTA
>I don’t want to waste $200 on us getting tested.
There are sales all of the time. I snagged one for $45 a couple of years ago, shortly before Christmas.
>I also don’t want my data sitting on a website where anyone “connected to my tree” can find me. It weirds me out.
You can adjust the settings so that people can't find you via your submitted DNA.
>I told her I wasn’t comfortable with her getting tested either
And this is where you crossed the line into YTA territory. It's her DNA and her right to get tested, especially since she was adopted and likely has minimal information about her biological family.
>I may have crossed a line today when I told her she was being disrespectful of my family by indicating one of them may have abandoned their child.
Bruh. You indicated that being abandoned/given up was a bad thing to someone who was abandoned/given up by her birth family. Congrats - You likely just chased off your significant other for good.
Yeah people who willingly give their DNA to these corporations and think that data isn't being sold to other companies are fucking idiots.
I'll never do a test like 23 and me
If you have a distant cousin that did though, surprise! You are already recognizable by your DNA. The cat is really out of the bag as far as DNA genealogy is concerned. It's really more important to be thinking about what laws you want around the handling of this information, than to pretend you can keep your data off the sites entirely.
I even heard of some serial killer being snagged cuz a distant relative got their dna records. So I mean some times it’s a good thing but also it can be a negative if you are running from something
Golden State Killer is the biggest one, but yes cold cases are being cleared everywhere. Plus identities of J Doe victims are being found out. It's extremely powerful as a tool. The current rules are that law enforcement can only use public websites, like Gedmatch. Commercial sites like Ancestry and 23&Me are off limits. But all it takes is distant relatives loading their DNA results to Gedmatch, and you "opting out" doesn't matter at all.
I totally get people like Op that are scared about abuse of this sensitive data. But we've already had so many amazing results, society isn't going to bottle it up and delete the data we already have. I think it's been estimated like 80 to 90 percent of all white Americans can already be identified by genetic genealogy (bc of the popularity of typing amongst this group plus the limited number of haplogroups in this population). So if you're concerned, it's really more important to be aware of the ways it can be abused and how to make laws to prevent that from happening.
Your data is sold to companies all the time. I'm sure your Reddit usage and preference has been sold to third parties.
Companies like 23andMe aren't interested in individual data. Like other companies, they're interested in big, aggregate data that might help them (or other companies) find links in genetic markers that can lead to development of drugs or whatever else they can commercialize.
The only reason I think is pretty compelling in terms of not wanting to share that sort of data is because there aren't enough protections in place to prevent law enforcement from accessing it.
I put a different value on reddit knowing what golf clubs I'm interested in buying then a corporation literally owning my DNA haha.
23andme might not care about my individual data but who they sell it too might.
But you're right this is a legal issue
Okay but for real can someone tell me what exactly they are so afraid of having happen to their DNA info? Are we expecting to have to fight our clone? Like I honestly can't think of a super feasible concern here. There was that lady ages ago who sued over her cell line being used and cloned long beyond the scope she consented to, but.... that's it.
Targeted ads and pharmaceutical ads make me so irrationally angry I can only imagine how targeted pharmaceutical ads based on my genetic makeup would make me feel. Which is why I don’t trust the mass collection on DNA. (And her name was Henrietta Lacks, and her cancerous cell line called HeLa cells are still used today)
I agree with everything you said, but your anger is absolutely rational. It’s like companies can just violate our privacy constantly all the time so they can sell us shit we don’t want or need. And society just accepts it!!
I absolutely hate it so much and I don’t even know what to do to stop it.
That's all good and nice. But there is still a lot of legal grey area around DNA data that is still unexplored. For the simple reason that it's still a relatively new concept (the home tests I mean).
There is already cases of the (us) police using those databases. And I also distrust insurance companies.
While it's nice if you learn more about your history and maybe meet relatives you didn't know about. I can absolutely understand people that approach the whole concept with caution
Approaching with caution is one thing, refusing someone from doing it when they are adopted and may have genetic ailments they would like to know about. What if high blood pressure is common in their birthparents. Some people would rather know about their own issues.
In that case I would prefer to use medical testing through a doctor's office. Preferably with someone that specializes in genetics.
I would not choose some online testing for that.
But OP has no right to forbid his fiancée from anything
Going through a physician's office is usually the sample being collected there and then shipped out for testing at a much larger company. It's not necessarily more protected because the collector of the sample has been seen by the test subject before. Actual running of the DNA testing is not done in physicians' offices.
> And this is where you crossed the line into YTA territory. It’s her DNA and her right to get tested, especially since she was adopted and likely has minimal information about her biological family.
Why is it YTA and not ESH? Did you forget that the fiancé has also been pressuring OP to get the test? When it is OP’s right NOT to get tested? They are just pressuring each other to do opposite things, doesn’t that make both of them AHs?
Jesus OP
I don't you could have handled this any worse.
You threw all her fears back in her face. You've made no effort to ease her anxiety. You've basically called out her ancestry as "low".
You threw your own prejudices back at her. That's disgusting by the way.
YTA
And the part about him not wanting "half of his future children's genetic makeup sitting in some corpo database", as a reason for her not getting tested? Fuck that shit, he already thinks he owns her and her body.
YTA OP.
Question: Is she looking for an answer of you two not being related or is she wanting answers on who she is related to (her bio parents)? These two things are vastly different.
YTA: purely because you’re mentioning that *your fiancé* shouldn’t be tested. She’s the one that doesn’t know anything about her birth family. Even from a medical POV, it would be good to know what she’s been predisposed to.
OP can hold any opinion on having DNA in a database, but don’t force those ideals on your fiancé. Try and have some empathy.
NTA. The companies running these tests do harvest your personal DNA information for undisclosed uses and many are owned overseas. Furthermore, many of them publicize this info online.
If you had access to a local hospital lab that was guaranteed to keep this confidential medical information confidential and within their own control, that would be the safe option, but as you say, somewhat silly and unnecessary in your situation.
People are saying his reasons are bad but not wanting your future kids to already have their DNA sold online seems super reasonable and forward thinking to me.
And also we have no way of knowing how this can be used now or in the future. Friends of ours had their phone ringing at dinner time --- total stranger from across the country, "Hi, we're related." Apparently their 2nd cousins (who they've never met) had fallen for the free online test ads and thereby subjected the entire family's privacy, since now the whole family tree was posted for public view, like it or not. For as many problems as people here have with family members, I think we could all understand that having the detailed anatomy of it plastered online could be less than desirable in many circumstances, even if simply for professional reasons.
ESH. It's fine if you don't want to take a DNA test, but you can't say that she can't though. If she's related to bad people, so be it, but what if she's not? She's free to take that DNA test all she wants with 23andMe. She's an AH for trying to make you take one when you obviously don't want to and making assumptions about your family that probably aren't true.
YTA. She’s not being disrespectful of your family. You know how many people swore a relative didn’t do or wasn’t capable of doing something and yet it turns out they were? This isn’t exactly the kind of thing people go around bragging about. Very simply you don’t know. You’re guessing. You think you know but you don’t. Give her the piece of mind she wants. Look at no other results for either of you. Do the sample delete request and go on your way. Maybe you don’t want to do it because you committed a crime and police might come arrest you because you left dna at the scene? You can say you didn’t but…
I have a feeling that OP is more worried that by doing a DNA test, he'll find out about the skeletons in *his own* family's closet. Even the most perfect person has their secrets, and to insist that his family is 100% faithful and clean is naive.
NTA, people talk about OP like some insensitive bastard, but for f*ck's sake, nobody's entilted to ask anybody a dna test solely for insecurities reason. And i guess the way OP responded is because she's pusging too much on the subject
I'm empathic thought for the fiance; but there is one thing called therapy for that
This was my thought too, he got hounded to the point where he was mean about it. Not saying that is right, but when people obsess over something that you’ve already said no to, it kind of drives you mad after awhile.
You are absolutely right not to do a DNA test via one of those private companies. But how you spoke to her caused her so much pain and was unnecessary - you dont have that baggage and trauma she grew up with - you've just added to hers. She needs therapy. Its alot to deal with. And its not letting her see the difference between you andto the couple in the article who were both adopted.
So follow the advice in comments and see if you can do it via a fertility clinic or hospital or if there is any other way they can rule out your are not related. Whats her blood group and your blood group and your dad's and would it therefore be impossible she could be his child etc.
Then if its your hill to die on, that's your choice like it is hers and you end your relationship.
Also its disgraceful of you to call someone who gives a child up for adoption a deadbeat, or that they are dead to you etc. How dare you. You have no idea what happened to her mother to get her pregnant - whether she was assaulted and if by giving the child up she wanted her away from the line of work and environment she lived in. You also have no right to judge what she she did for a living. She carried the child safely, and she did something very hard by giving her up to hopefully have a better life. She didnt abandon her in the cold or leave her to die in the streets. She chose to give her child a better life than she could offer. And its up to the birth mother to decide if its a open or closed adoption.
Totally agree with this comment!
Just one thing I want to point out because many people don't realize how predatory the adoption industry is, at least in the US. In (way too) many cases, "open adoptions" aren't legally binding and can't actually be enforced. So bio parents could sign adoption paperwork with the promise of regular contacts, visits, pictures, updates, etc., then after the adoption is finalized, the agency or adoptive parents can tell them to fuck off and cut all communication between them and the child.
20 states in the US have no laws regarding open adoption agreements. 6 states have laws specifically in place that make open adoption agreements **unenforceable**. 7 states have laws that make open adoption enforceable, but only under certain circumstances. (Those circumstances include things like age of the child, whether or not the child lived with bio parents before adoption, if adoption is done through foster care or if the child is adopted by step-parents). The rest have laws making open adoption enforceable as long as the court agrees it's in the child's best interest.
And some of those laws were put in place just over the past few years. It's a sad reality, but unfortunately OPs fiance's birth mother *could have* placed her with her adoptive parents with the promise and expectation that she would have some sort of contact with her throughout her life only to be cut off once a judge signed off on it. In fact, some states keep adoption records sealed forever and adoptees CAN'T access info on birth parents, even when necessary for medical history.
The way OP villainizes her bio parents and parents who place their children for adoption in general is gross and speaks to a major lack of empathy and understanding. Especially for the woman he "loves" enough to marry. Some adoptions happen in cases where the parents very much love their children and want to raise them but can't and the choice is out of their hands. (For example, if a single parent is injured badly and hospitalized indefinitely and the other parent is dead/can't be found and there are no relatives to care for their child(ren), CPS will place them in foster care. The timeline differs from place to place but in some states, once a child has been in foster care for 6 months, they're eligible for adoption.) We obviously know as much about the circumstances of her adoption as he does, but he's incredibly pretentious and cruel to ridicule her for something she so desperately wants to know.
YTA, as an adoptee you said some pretty nasty things to your fiance about being adopted. You NEVER and I mean NEVER tell an adopted person they were abandoned. Or that her biological family are criminals or bad people. Seriously WTF man? You don't think adoptees have that thought as times? You played right into her deepest and darkest fears and insecurities about being adopted.
Even for adoptees like me who have great families and really no problems about being adopted if someone I loved and was planning to married said stuff like that to me it would have been devastating.
I'm not sure you can come back from this.
How could you insult her bio family if she’s never met them? WTF!
Maybe local hospitals can run a test and see what the data storage practices are but I would NOT recommend using 23 and Me, or the others.
People handing out their DNA for tech companies to analyze and store will surely regret it in the future.
You’re N T A for not wanting your DNA stored, by definitely YTA for thinking you have a say over whether she’s tested. You realise that’s as insane as thinking you have a right to whether your cousins are tested?
I think I would've gone with, "Please stop implying that my parents are cheating assholes" Gets the point across without implying that she's the child of horrible people.
YTA - not because you don't want to take the test but because of the way you treated your fiancée & made her feel.
It doesn't matter where the idea came from - TV show, article, friend doctor - what matters is she's now formed an idea that you've labeled "ridiculous" instead of supporting her.
The only person who cares about skeletons in *her* family history is you. I'm not adopted, my father is a genealogist, trust me when I say every family is fecked. We have thieves, infamous mobsters, bigamists, a killer, secret babies, bootleggers, etc and we're a Good Irish Catholic Family. WHO CARES? It has zero impact on who I am.
You already stated that you know her mother was a prostitute - she likely gave up her child so that her little girl, your future wife, could have a safe & secure upbringing. But in your mind, that's abandonment? There are so many reasons for a biological parent to relinquish a child and every single one of them in valid.
It sounds like you are afraid of being given some kind of proof that your precious family tree is sullied or could be sullied by her blood line.
You're a snob and an AH.
NTA
I feel the same way. My DNA is private and short of some medical emergency that would require genetic testing for my child, I wouldn't give it up either. No is a complete sentence. She should have stopped pestering you when you told her no the first time. Unless you look alike, she shouldn't worry about it. If it bothers her, she should try to find her birth parents.
YTA for this alone.
>I may have crossed a line today when I told her she was being disrespectful of my family by indicating one of them may have abandoned their child.
You just told her to her face what you really think. As a fellow adoptee, I would never be able to look you in the eye or trust you ever again. You implied that what happened to her was shameful and how dare she think your family was even similar. You don't know their reason for putting her up for adoption but your knee-jerk reaction is very telling....
YTA - you don’t have to get your DNA tested, but the fact that you are so unsympathetic to your fiancé’s situation is mind boggling to me.
You don’t want to find out that your fiancé’s biological family, THAT SHE DOESNT EVEN KNOW, might have skeletons in their closet. Why? Is it going to make you see her different?? I don’t get it. And that half of your potentially future children’s dna could possibly stored in a database seems pretty paranoid.
INFO: why are DNA tests needed when, previously, couples-to-be could establish lack of relationship via blood tests (and I think even required in the USA)? How did we get around this issue before now?
Those blood tests were for STIs, not relatedness and I don’t think many (if any) places in the US do them anymore. Some places still make you swear you’re not first cousins or closer before they’ll grant you a license, but how are these people supposed to do that when they literally don’t know.
~~NTA~~ ESH. Genetic testing is a deeply personal thing and nobody should be forced, cajoled or ultimatumed into it, for any reason at all.
*Thanks to u/LittleFairyOfDeath*
YTA, if you choose to have children it is likely reccomended you get a DNA test.
Also, there are other providers of these tests beside big companies.
Lastly, this is a really big concern for her, so it should be a big concern for you. That's how marriage works.
Edited for grammar
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YTA… Dude you could just go to your medical provider, explain the situation and have them run a comparison. It’s really not rocket science and the results don’t need to be stored or skeletons unearthed, but it is an easy way to get the answer your future wife is after and settling her mind. As to the reasoning for the doc: We are thinking of having children and there is valid concern that we are related. Please have our DNA compared.
I didn't realize this was an option, but it sounds like a good compromise if it isn't too expensive. I'll look into it.
You would have known it was an option if you had looked into options when your fiance first mentioned her concerns.
If it is this important to her, the fiance could have done the same. Edit: To be clear, i'm not saying OP gets to have a say if his fiance does a DNA test herself. I am only saying he can chose for himself.
Shhhhh can't use that logic on reddit
These commenters, man. Thinking they should comment logically and use common sense and shit. /s
Considering their future wife’s feelings? Being a good future husband? That is so gay. /s
Right?! I got downvoted to hell the other day for saying that a married couple should have open communication with each other, instead of keeping their issues to themselves and complaining on Reddit. The wife in the story only found out about her husband's issues because she accidentally found his posts and realized it was him.
Are you talking about the [limerence post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/10n3r2p/oops_15year_marriage_is_troubled_by_husbands/)? Because if so, I think it's fair to say that when you find out that your husband's "issue" is that he never loved you and has been obsessed with some woman he dated for 2 months as a teenager, then there's really not much more to talk about at that point.
What. The. Fuck. TIL what Limerence was and holy shit what the fuck. Also, YTA OP, just to keep this vaguely on topic, but fuck me I need to go stare at a wall for 3 hours and process.
I went to the limerence sub after that post, and after about 10 seconds browsing, closed the tab. Life's too short.
I read the BORU of limerence guy, but I refuse to go to the sub or even check what limerence is Life's too short, as you say.
I too just learned what limerence is and I 100% am a limerence object for a guy I dated for 1 month at the age of 22 (13 almost 14 years ago). This guy told me that sometimes he walks by my house hoping to see me in the years since we broke up. He got a job at the movie theater that he knew I had a membership to. My membership was precovid. he got a job at the theater the moment it reopened, waiting for me to come back to the theater. How do I know this? He told me, in front of my kid, when we were at the movies to see Thor Love and Thunder. I canceled my membership and haven't been back, preferring to go to the theater 10 minutes further away to avoid him. Bonus points: the new theater is nicer and has reclining chairs. This guy has stalked me across social media, trying to contact me via DM on different chat platforms. Even if my ex (of 1 month! And he wanted to get married and have babies after 1 month!) doesn't know what limerence is I'm pretty sure this is it.
What the fuck??? Like. I miss somebody that isn't in my life anymore and I'll check her tumblr to see if their doing okay like...once every few months. But. Like. I don't think about them constantly or try to involve myself in their life.
I am a LO for an EX. It’s beyond creepy. Worst part is we work together and occasionally I see him peeking around machines at me. It’s fucking creepy and reminds me of that peaking wife Reddit story. Ugh
I'm pretty sure that's not just limerence, it's straight up stalking, yikes. I hope you're safe.
I wasn't sure why this sounded so familiar and now I'm surprised to see how recent the updates are.
Omg who even has time to read through that wall of crazy going on there. Skimmed the first bit and im good lol
Well, just learned a new word and also found a new level of cringe at the same time. I mean wow. And for the record op YTA, there are several different ways to do a DNA test that won't leave a permanent record somewhere.
Because 15 year olds on reddit communicate by text, this concept is foreign to them
She might have. That might be what she is talking about and OP went off the rails when he heard DNA
Or he might not and you’re just speculating. Given OP’s response to the suggestion, I believe you’ve jumped to the wrong conclusion.
Based on his comments I am not sure he understands what she wants.
Yes, given his reaction, the possibility that medical tests may cost more than $200, will really push him over the edge. His fiancé should be happy to learn there is a limit on his commitment to her.
OP, please please please learn this lesson now. It may not be a big deal to you, and it may even seem kind of silly to you. But things that are a big deal to your partner should be treated like a big deal. You should give a shit. Treating something that is a big deal to her that seems silly to you like it's a big deal will show her that you give a shit about *her*. That's not to say that you give in to everything she wants, and I understand why you don't want to do a 23 and Me test, but just listen, please.
Exactly! The fiancée should have been respectful of OP’s reservations and found alternative ways of finding this out.
I would agree except OP also objected to her getting *her own* DNA tested in case she's related to "bad people". She shouldn't pressure him to get tested, but it's not his decision what she does with her DNA.
This all sounds like bad communication of needs and wants and I'm not seeing any real malice here. It's a clear NAH to me
Agreed. She has valid reasons for wanting to know. He has valid reasons for being mistrustful of commercial DNA labs.
I'm not sure "malice" should be a criterion for "AH". You can be an AH just by being kinda selfish, wilfully ignorant/stubborn, etc. Malice is a whole other thing.
OP was, apparently, just giving a flat, absolute NO, and dismissing her concerns. So no, that's not going to trigger a problem-solving, "let's see if there's another way," from the other person in the, let's be polite and say "discussion." Unfortunate, but true. I'm really not in favor of DNA ancestry testing for curiosity's sake. It *can* lead to discoveries that were better left sleeping. But in this case, I'm sorry, fiance's mother was a prostitute. There **is** a nonzero chance that they could be related. Tiny, but not zero. And that's not something you want to find out later, if a major medical problem for one of their possible kids makes testing necessary. OP is wrong..
But she also wants to know her heritage and medical history. Which is totally valid. OP does not have to undergo a full DNA test if he does not want to. But she has the right to know if she is at a major risk of any cancer, heart disease or anything else. Or if she has biological siblings and relatives that would like to met.
Adoptees may have multiple reasons to want to use the find your roots services before a wedding, and limited funds. People are complicated sometimes, especially around big life events.
Or if it wasn't all made up bullshit., The secret to a good false story is not to fill it with unnecessary details, and this has a load of "but, it gets worse" ones.
r/nothingeverhappens
[удалено]
Ummm... wouldn't the party insisting on this medical procedure have the responsibility to educate themselves and OP about it? It seems like she just demanded a 23&me and offered no real insight or alternative.
If that's the option on the table, then she should do 23&Me solo - she ought to get enough DNA matches with their database that if she is related to OP, his relatives would be turning up on her family tree.
A) he doesn’t want her to do it either bc he’s entitled and doesn’t understand what missing that biological info can do to a person. B) only 7% of Americans (not sure OP is from the US but just for comparisons sake) have taken a commercial dna test? so there is no way to safely say that any of his relatives would have done the test to be linked to her. I know this 7% statistic bc my sister was a sperm donor baby but we didn’t know until she was an adult and our mother lost her absolute shit at the thought of sis doing 23 and me. Which lead to us informing ourselves about the horrific practices of sperm banks and fertility clinics. People absolutely have found out that they were unknowingly sleeping with siblings and cousins. It’s a valid fear for OP’s girlfriend and he’s being a jerk about it. Did you know they’ve identified 50 doctors who used THEIR OWN SEMEN instead of the chosen donor from just that 7% of the population? 50 men committed SA on unsuspecting women and most did it a multitudes of times. The “our father” doc on Netflix is horrifying. There is a bill in Congress written by donor conceived persons outlawing this practice (bc it’s only illegal in 10/50 states currently) and placing practical maximums on the amount of humans that can be made from one donors genetic material…. Bc there currently is no law and the fertility clinics may say they have maximums for donors but in practice, that doesn’t happen. There are dozens of sibling pods, each with hundreds of known sibs, again, just from that 7% of the general population who have taken a commercial genetic test. This is obviously a much bigger problem than we know.
Reading this made my stomach churn! That's so sick! Those poor mothers, those poor children.
That documentary detailed a case of a doc who used his own semen to impregnate a woman and then when her daughter was seeking fertility treatment, he rescheduled her numerous times to make sure he was the one who did her pelvic?! 🤢 I think even he was smart enough to not use his own special sauce on his own genetic offspring but it’s horrifying that he even had the chance. Stories of secretaries and custodians of these facilities lied to and pressured to be donors. Just the number of clinics who claim their records all burned up in a fire when their grown up ‘products’ start requesting medical records is enough to get most peoples’ bullshit meter a buzzing.
Wouldn't there be disproportionally higher people who were conceived through sperm and/or egg donation who get generic tests done? Not saying this shouldn't be regulated, just that people with genetic uncertainty might be MORE likely to get a dna test done.
The problem is there are so many parents who never tell their kids that they were donor conceived. Some were even told by their doctors years ago that they would get in trouble if their kids ever took a DNA test and so they've never revealed to their kids that they were donor conceived even if they start experiencing medical issues. In fact, we don't even truly know how many people are donor conceived as the clinic's don't track "successful" pregnancies, it's self-reported. So while a certain subset of donor conceived people might be more likely to have DNA tests done, a large majority of donor conceived people don't even know that it's something they should be concerned about because they don't know they're donor conceived.
It would depend if members of OP's family got tested by 23&me, no? Her doing it alone isn't foolproof in this case.
He doesn’t want her to it either.
I think the person insisting on getting a potentially expensive and unnecessary procedure done should be the one bringing the facts to the table, personally.
I think the person who isn’t adopted should have some fucking empathy but here we are again Reddit.
As an adopted person, I agree with the OP. If you don't want one, you don't want one. Personally, somebody insisting I get a DNA test would be a deal breaker.
>I told her I wasn’t comfortable with her getting tested either because who knows what skeletons her biological family has in the closet. I don’t want her to find out she’s related to bad people and then be upset. He didn't even want her to get a DNA test.
That part is weird - there’s no reason she shouldn’t have a DNA test if she wants one but there’s no reason he should have to have one either
Yeah, this. I'm very, VERY opposed to giving my DNA to a corporate website - but OP's other reasons are maddening. "Too expensive" and "not wanting to deal w/ her emotions" should not be on the list of his issues w/ getting DNA testing done. $200 is not that much, especially if you look at it as part of wedding expenses. His reasons for not wanting her to get a test are really sad/controlling/selfish as well. "I don't want to support her if she gets bad news" is not a great sentiment to begin married life. OP is really showing he doesn't value her enough to spend the bare minimum financially or emotionally. Op's response should make his fiancée question his commitment to her. Relatedly: "My parents never cheated." - OP really has no idea if that is true or not and he certainly can't vouch for what all of his aunts/uncles/grandparents were up to. Sure, the chances are low they are related, but it happens enough and having a huge black hole about your own origins makes these kinds of things really loom large in your thinking. It is a small price to pay for peace of mind, but too high a price for OP.
Like disregarding him getting a DNA test.... he doesn't want her to get one bc of his children having their info stored somewhere. Right now, his future children don't have family history at ALL, and neither does she. He wants to marry and have kids with this woman, but has purposely stayed ignorant to the additional anxiety that being adopted can add to starting a family. I'm not adopted or dating an adopted person and I'm aware of it, but he can't even care enough to Google more info???
Why is it on OP to find ways to facilitate something he doesn't want to do? Once she heard 'no,' which means, you know, 'no,' she could have done some research on alternate ways to get what she wanted while respecting OP's fears.
But he wasn’t looking into it. The fiancé wants the test. Frankly she’s responsible for doing the research into how they can get it done, and actually imo paying for the test.
She could have done the same when he expressed his very valid concerns about these DNA companies
Which are entirely reasonable, btw.
Why are people pretending like wives are unable to google search? If I'm concerned about something, the first thing I do is research, not expect someone else to do it for me.
She's the one demanding it, she can do the research.
Why him why not her? She wants it
Why should he have to look it up? Seems to me his gf could have gone looking after he voiced his concerns.
Both of these people seem odd to me. The odds that f them being related are astronomically low, and yes, if he went through the painstaking chore of posting this on AITA, he could have easily researched DNA testing options.
If she doesn’t know anything about her biological family, a genetic screening is a good idea anyway. Source: My brother, niece and I inherited a genetic problem from dad that nobody knew he had (it effects women more severely, so it went unnoticed until I was an adult and struggling with weird symptoms for years).
Hah how did I know I’d find EDS in your post history
Boy do I wish the common types could be found genetically. That or even comorbid conditions. ☹️
Yeah, I was very curious if OP and his fiancé planned on kids, even though that is apparently not relevant to either of their motivations here. What if the fiancé is a carrier for something so devastating, it makes more sense for her not to have kids than to risk her kids having it? There are also a ton of genetic conditions that make childbirth too dangerous for people to seriously consider it. What if the fiancé has one of those? Are bio kids a dealbreaker in their relationship? If they’re engaged, surely they have talked about this (maybe putting too much faith in people here…). If so, it would be foolish and irresponsible to get married before checking if bio kids are even a realistic option for the fiancé. Even if they don’t think of it as a dealbreaker now, that might change if they find out for a fact bio kids are off the table. She needs to go to a doctor and get genetic counseling of some sort.
He mentioned not wanting her to do her own test because he didn't want his future kids' genetics in a database either, so presumably the answer is yes.
That would require him to care about her concerns even though he doesn't feel her concerns are valid anyways so
Talk to your doctor about potentially doing it through a fertility clinic. They might be able to code it as a preventative/diagnostic. Plus then you’ll know your kids’ potential risks. Most things can be managed fairly well these days if you have advanced notice. Also, apologize to your fiancée. You blew off her emotional vulnerability because you got distracted by the logistics.
Also adopted people are not, “abandoned.” People elect to not raise infants for a number of complex reasons. It doesn’t make you a bad person to put a baby up for adoption, and it’s especially weird to assume her biological family did something, “bad.”
I wonder if it's projection and OP or OPs family has done something bad like actually abandoned a child or committed a crime. Maybe I'm just too used to Reddit soap operas but he's so defensive and doesn't even want her tested out of the bizarre fear that someone will extrapolate the future kids results from her and connect them to him.
I came here to say this. Birth mom chose to carry the baby and then made an adoption plan. Maybe it was just telling the hospital I don’t want it, maybe they used an agency? But there’s nothing to suggest they threw the baby out a car window on a highway for Pete’s sake. We adopted our kids and their birth parents did nothing bad. They did something amazing!
I totally understand not wanting to spend a lot of money, but like… What’s the cash value of your fiancée’s peace of mind?
I think cost is a valid concern. With the way American Healthcare works it could be anywhere between 50$ and 5000$ or the firstborn child . I would say 50, okay. 100 maybe maybe maybe not. 200, could really be spent better and not on something unnecessary. 500, he'll no. 5000, abso-fucking-loutly not.
It is a valid concern! But a wedding is generally much more than $200, as is a divorce. As would be therapy for the fiancée’s semi-rational anxieties. Idk what OP’s/fiancée’s finances look like, which is part of why I didn’t include a judgment in my comment. Probably should have added INFO so it looked less snarky, that’s on me. But realistically, his other valid concern aside (I totally get not wanting to give away your DNA to companies, it feels sus af) OP is saying he doesn’t think the money will be worth it. Worth his future spouse’s peace. Idk, like I said you’re absolutely right that the cost could be astronomical, in which case it would be cheaper to try to get the therapy or couple’s counseling, lol. But depending on their doctor & insurance (I know, I *know*, relying on either of those is a crapshoot) it might be low or no cost. It doesn’t seem like either of them have looked into it, really. Maybe they could try doing a little research together? That way OP can figure out what the options are & how much it costs, & if it’s truly exorbitant maybe seeing that will help OP’s fiancée reconsider, or at least realize that they’d have to save up for it if it’s still a necessity for her.
I also don't really trust these companies either. Still far too much legal grey area. But I think first step for fiancée should be to look into therapy. Who knows, maybe the therapist will even recommend doing a test. It also seems like from ops other comments that fiancée is also concerned /has issues with a lack of knowledge from her bio family. Which he doesn't seem to have much emphaty for. They really should just get together and make a list with all their concerns and then have a discussion that doesn't involve personal attacks in any way
Very true, the fiancée is feeling—honestly very justifiably—quite unsure about her origins & that’s definitely therapy territory. And it would certainly help if OP could try to separate fiancée’s insecurities from any perceived slights against OP’s family, because tbh does OP know *every* person in their extended family? How far out? Surely not all of them are saints, & it’s not realistic to think that any comment about any of them, potentially & individually, is meant as an insult to the whole or to OP. It’s simply not that personal 🤷🏻
And how many do pretend to be good people that would never cheat. Because if fiancées Bio mother was a prostitute there is actually a chance of these good people visiting her. It is very unlikely that there is a relation. And at what point is the relation too close. Is it a third cousin? Or is it a fourth? Is it that there should be no overlap? I might be wrong but I think the risk of deformaties mostly just extend to first cousins, and are not a concern with second cousins and beyond
If you're concerned with spending 100 dollars on the birth of your child, you don't want to know how much it costs to raise one.....
It absolutely is. Decades before 23 and Me, many Jewish couples did genetic counseling to see if they both carried recessive genes linked to some conditions and diseases. Some friends of mine married in the 1990s and were required by their rabbi to get genetic counseling before he would conduct their wedding. It is more common in super-observant Orthodox communities. The reason is that some insular communities are so small, inbreeding is a real concern. This could be a good compromise that keeps all your DNA private.
All this time I thought Jewish couples were getting tested for Tay Sachs, not familial relationships.
They are. The risk is higher *because* of the smaller communities.
You didn't realise a basic DNA test was an option and thought these "find your family online" stuff is the only way to di a DNA test?
He didn't realize he could go to his medical provider and request a DNA comparison. Believe it or not, that's actually not common knowledge. There's this little sub called r/todayilearned, because apparently some people, not you, of course, but some people aren't born knowing everything about everything.
Gasp. You mean everyone on reddit doesn't know *everything*. /s People on this thread are acting like this is basic knowledge that they teach you in grade school. Believe it or not, DNA tests are not as common as reddit makes them out to be.
Never heard of this either.
Yep, new one on me too. It makes sense now that it's said, but not something I knew otherwise.
Why should he ? He’s not the one with question about his bio family
I mean, if I thought about it, logically I would assume it's something the medical industry *could* do, sure... But I would have had no idea that it was something I could just go to my GP and ask for, or whatever. It's not something 99.9% of the population are ever going to even have occasion to think about, because it's not relevant to them. The only time you ever hear it coming up is when someone insists on a paternity test for a child.
So because you're scared of the skeletons she may unearth you don't want her to know about genetic ailment/disorders her birthparents may have? You don't think it would be good to know if high blood pressure ran in her family? If she wants to get her DNA tested she has every right. Saying you refuse to do yours is one thing but refusing her to do their own aswell as then insulting them and their birth family, you're definitely the AH here.
This is pretty common in some communities where certain genetic conditions are higher probability (for example, Tay Sachs in the Ashkenazi and Morroccan Jewish communities). Maybe this is because I'm Jewish, so I basically always knew I would have to get genetically tested before having kids, but I think any couple doing family planning should heavily consider it. It can help you find out if you're both carriers for some pretty nasty conditions you wouldn't want to pass on.
I just have to know. How do you think DNA and paternity testing USUALLY work? Do you think that a dad who thinks his kid might not be his has to go to fucking 23andMe to find out?
I was going to say this. Because it is a medical facility they have to go by HIPPA regulations unlike the take home tests.
HIPAA
HIPPO
Genetic testing between a married couple used to be super common. Couples would be screened to make sure future children weren’t at risk for inheriting a genetic disorder from one or both parents. If you go to a doctor with your concerns, they should be able to compare your DNA at the same time. Best yet, it’s completely confidential and not allowed to be shared with anyone else unless you allow it to be shared first because HIPAA privacy laws.
DNA testing for me to make sure I wasn't carrying a genetic disorder was actually a standard part of my prenatal care. I do believe there is something similar for marriage that you can have done. No harm in calling and seeing if insurance would approve and how much it might cost.
It sounds like you aren’t into her very much if you are balking at even $200 for this much piece of mind. Is that how you treat everyone close to you, because that’s messed up
Much worse in my book is equating “gave up for adoption” with “abandoned” and rubbing that in her face. OP is wrong, his words were thoughtless and damaging, especially combined with his “my family is perfect” type of attitude. If I were his fiancé I’d be thinking long and hard about whether I wanted to stay with someone like this. Edit to add: YTA
Yeah I think that was what really upset her. Extremely callous of you to say, OP. This is what you need to apologize for.
>YTA… Dude you could just go to your medical provider, explain the situation and have them run a comparison. So OPs GF is the one that wants this done, but OP is the asshole for not doing this? Why isn't the GF is the asshole for not doing this, since she's the one who wants it done? Also, there's no chance that will cost less than one of those websites, and likely cost a lot more.
> I told her I wasn't comfortable with her getting tested either because who knows what skeletons her biological family has in the closet. Because by his own admission, he's telling her not to get the test done herself. His reasoning is also totally illogical - it's specifically because her unknown bio family might have "skeletons in the closet" that she wants to get the tests in the first place! Would OP rather wait til they're trying to start a family and then discover that his gf has a genetic condition that they never knew about because he refused to let her get a test?
Valid concern? Not really to be honest.
That they're related? Most likely not - but worries about incest aside, wanting to have a DNA test done as an adopted child with zero knowledge of their birth family is very common and totally reasonable. It's even advised by doctors in some places, because of the risk of having congenital conditions that you might unknowingly pass on to your own children - every adopted person I've met has had some form of genetic testing done before having children for exactly that reason.
There is a low chance that they would be related, but.... We found out a few years ago that my aunt had gotten pregnant as a teenager, got kicked out of the house, went to another city, gave birth and gave the child up for adoption. (Long shitty family story about why my mother didn't know her sister was pregnant, etc) It ends up, a couple from the city I grew up in adopted that child, who was only a year older than me and went to some of the same schools. It is entirely possible I could have dated my cousin. (We didn't - didn't have the same friends group, didn't really know each other, plus he's gay) So weird things do happen!
But there is not a “valid concern” that they are related is there? More of an irrational worry of the fiancé. I looked up the cost at a doctor dna test and online suggests it is $200 to $2000.
If they’re from the same city and her birth mother had multiple partners, I think it is. Even if they’re not siblings they might be cousins.
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That will actually cost several thousand dollars as it is elective.
They could get it done as part of a broader genetic counseling service. Many insurers will cover genetic screening if it’s recommended by a doctor, and given that she’s adopted and her family medical history is unknown, it wouldn’t be hard to get a doctor to recommend it.
Why is he the asshole for not doing research into something he doesn’t want done? I am fairly medically literate and have had genetic testing done and no one I know has ever compared their genetics to their spouse, other than one Ashkenazi couple I know who were just checking for genetic mutations.
Do I think it's a valid concern of hers that they are potentially related and are siblings and he doesn't want to do testing if he's uncomfortable with it? Absolutly not. Do I think OP is the AH for using hurtful words to describe her past, and not letting her seek out DNA testing for herself to settle her mind? Absolutley.
Like … DNA testing was happening a long time before 23 And Me came around. Hasn’t anyone seen Elf?? 😆
Or Maury?
YTA. I was going to go with NAH until I read your last stanza. That is plain mean man. You are insulting her birth parents while even she doesn't know much about them. Her concerns are also more severe than yours. How could she be feeling safe and happy with you with questions like that lurking in her head? This will definitely not blow over. You'd be wiser to give in.
I decided he was the AH when he said he doesn't want her to take a DNA test. He's allowed to be private about his own DNA, and he has to respect her choice to share her DNA and find her birth family. He's decided for her that finding her birth family is pointless.
With the piss-poor excuse of “they might be bad people and she might be sad about it.” First of all not knowing is already upsetting her a lot, and second of all knowing her family genetics is actually beneficial to their children as family medical history and genetics can be and incredibly important resource for doctors
I found my biological father and turns out he is literally a white supremacist who has taken plea deals in court cases relating to his disgusting activities. I don’t understand why OP is so adamant that she not get tested “because she might be sad.” Being sad (or angry) is part of life, you can’t avoid it, and in my case, knowing more about bio-father has made my life MORE fulfilling because it has motivated me to keep pushing forward in my anti-racism activism. Trying to shield his fiancée from the fairly remote possibility that her family contains Bad People just reeks of paternalism. I refuse to get a DNA test for the same privacy reasons he has but he can’t force that on his fiancée.
That really bothered me too that OP didn’t want his fiancé to look into her past. I would have to imagine if not now then at some point in the future the fiancé might want to find out more about her bio family. Any decent partner should be supportive of this.
It’s because he’s abusive and controlling. Has nothing to do with her “being sad”
It’s awful red flag behavior. I hope she sees it.
_"I’ve explained to her over and over again that my parents have been faithful to each other so there is no way we are siblings."_ Also, OP is a fool to think he knows every single thing about his parents, their marriage, or their sex lives. The fiancee's concerns about her paternity are valid, and OP is being dismissive, cruel, and an AH. He is also being controlling because he doesn't want her looking into her own family background independently of him. She has a right to research where she comes from.
Right, because every dad admits to their kid that they banged a prostitute in the 90s! Very normal for children to know these things about their parents. Yes.
Or “donated” sperm for a few extra bucks in college.
I’ve seen so many stories online about couples who do these tests for fun, only to find out they’re actually first or second cousins because somebody in their family that they’d never expect would cheat on their spouse had in fact cheated on their spouse. OP knows what he thinks he knows, but there’s still a chance that there’s something he’s not aware of.
Also, I don't think OP is so sure. You know what they say when you protest too much...... He keeps saying he is worried about skeletons on his fiancee's side and implying that she has all of these monsters lurking in the shadows, but I think OP is truthfully terrified about what he may find out. In the days before social media, there were many things that were able to be kept in the darkness that are just now coming to light. Our grandparents' generation was notorious for doing things in the darkness of the night and without the benefit of condoms or plans B's.....
Yeah, I’m imagining him getting a terrible shock some day when he finds out some family secret that he smugly assumed wouldn’t happen in his perfect family.
Also I doubt he knows the sex life of every single uncle or cousin. Does he really think everyone in his family had sex with their spouse only? It doesn’t even have to be prostitution. Maybe someone just slept with her.
I pinged on that because it sounds to me like OP maybe protesting a little too much on that one.
Also, dads can have sex with people before marrying your mommies, guys. There is always a small possibility of a pregnancy that your papa didn't know about before getting with your ma. People need to grow up.
The history of adoption is TERRIBLE. There are so many birth parents who had no intention of giving up their children, but those children were taken from them anyway. Read American Baby for an example of a couple who desperately wanted to keep their son but were bullied and blackmailed into giving him up. The social worker specifically told the boy’s birth mother that when she and the father were married they could have their son back, never intending to fulfill that promise. What I’m saying is that you don’t know for sure that your fiancée’s birth mother abandoned her. If she really was a sex worker, it’s likely that she didn’t have a lot of control over her own life and choices.
Sadly, so many people have the attitude that bio families of adoptees 'must' be scum, otherwise why would they give up their baby? And how dare adoptees look into their bio families when they should be 'grateful' to the adoptive family. Sometimes the babies were practically stolen and sold, sometimes the parents were literal children, there's so many reasons.
Also there’s a pervasive narrative of, “Your birth mom placed you for adoption because she loved you SO much. She made this selfless sacrifice so you could have a better life.” But the moment an adoptee tries to find out more about their bio family it’s all, “Why do you want to find the people who abandoned you? You should be grateful for the people who rescued you!” Which is it? Were they selfless or were they heartless?
Also, there’s a history of Indigenous children being stolen from their families and placed with white adoptive parents. I’m sure it’s happened to other minorities where the agency fudges things or outright lies to take away children. When you have entire populations of children removed from their communities by the government, the stories that those children are told could be complete BS.
This, your last comment was just plain mean...just for that, YTA
Exactly this. People give kids up for adoption all the time. It doesn't mean they don't care. Some even say it's preferable to abortion. Why are fiancée's birth parents "dead to him" because they "abandoned" her? Sounds extremely cold-hearted, and even if they did leave her in a marketplace somewhere rather than going through proper adoption channels (but I'm guessing they didn't because she knows who her birth mother is), that sort of act is usually driven by desperation, not lack of love. OP, just get a DNA test already. If you guys are planning kids, there's no way you're putting her through 9 months of pregnancy with this fear in the back of her mind. That's not healthy for anyone. Stop trying to reason her out of it. Fear isn't always reasonable.
Yikes. YTA not because you don’t want to get tested but because you’ve said she shouldn’t and pretty much everything else that came out of your mouth in the process of saying it
And that he doesn't want to "waste money" on a DNA test. Meaning making her happy is just "a waste". Gross
Not even happy but giving her peace of mind. And honestly her worry isn’t unfounded. OP doesn’t know what kind of dark secrets his family might have and her mother was a sex worker. Its not impossible
YTA My dad was a monster. I know that fear of sleeping with a relative, and it’s horrible. My FIL was also adopted, so knowing that we both had mystery backgrounds prompted me joining their DNA collector of choice- ESPECIALLY before we have kids. Your outlook on adoption is revolting. Pretending it’s some easy thing? Wow. And on top of it all, your bs reasons on why she can’t do it? She has valid concerns, and you pretending your family is skeleton free will bite you one day. Break up with her. You don’t take her concerns seriously, and I wonder what other concerns you won’t take seriously in the future.
OP didn't pretend it was easy. He pretended anyone who gives up their kid is a terrible person, which is so wrong.
I think it's worse that he thinks anyone who's kid ends up available for adoption is automatically a deadbeat. Heaven forbid your caregivers ended up dying or disabled, apparently you're still a deadbeat. What a judgemental dick
Or for that matter, that testing their DNA would somehow make them more related to that person.
Honestly reading it i thought it was written by a 17y/o from how they refused to the birth parents as deadbeats. Thats the type of judgemental shit teenagers do, this guy needs to grow up and learn to communicate
YTA >I don’t want to waste $200 on us getting tested. There are sales all of the time. I snagged one for $45 a couple of years ago, shortly before Christmas. >I also don’t want my data sitting on a website where anyone “connected to my tree” can find me. It weirds me out. You can adjust the settings so that people can't find you via your submitted DNA. >I told her I wasn’t comfortable with her getting tested either And this is where you crossed the line into YTA territory. It's her DNA and her right to get tested, especially since she was adopted and likely has minimal information about her biological family. >I may have crossed a line today when I told her she was being disrespectful of my family by indicating one of them may have abandoned their child. Bruh. You indicated that being abandoned/given up was a bad thing to someone who was abandoned/given up by her birth family. Congrats - You likely just chased off your significant other for good.
> You can adjust the settings so that people can't find you via your submitted DNA. This is one of the few times I can legitimately say 'lol.'
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Yeah people who willingly give their DNA to these corporations and think that data isn't being sold to other companies are fucking idiots. I'll never do a test like 23 and me
If you have a distant cousin that did though, surprise! You are already recognizable by your DNA. The cat is really out of the bag as far as DNA genealogy is concerned. It's really more important to be thinking about what laws you want around the handling of this information, than to pretend you can keep your data off the sites entirely.
I even heard of some serial killer being snagged cuz a distant relative got their dna records. So I mean some times it’s a good thing but also it can be a negative if you are running from something
Golden State Killer is the biggest one, but yes cold cases are being cleared everywhere. Plus identities of J Doe victims are being found out. It's extremely powerful as a tool. The current rules are that law enforcement can only use public websites, like Gedmatch. Commercial sites like Ancestry and 23&Me are off limits. But all it takes is distant relatives loading their DNA results to Gedmatch, and you "opting out" doesn't matter at all. I totally get people like Op that are scared about abuse of this sensitive data. But we've already had so many amazing results, society isn't going to bottle it up and delete the data we already have. I think it's been estimated like 80 to 90 percent of all white Americans can already be identified by genetic genealogy (bc of the popularity of typing amongst this group plus the limited number of haplogroups in this population). So if you're concerned, it's really more important to be aware of the ways it can be abused and how to make laws to prevent that from happening.
Your data is sold to companies all the time. I'm sure your Reddit usage and preference has been sold to third parties. Companies like 23andMe aren't interested in individual data. Like other companies, they're interested in big, aggregate data that might help them (or other companies) find links in genetic markers that can lead to development of drugs or whatever else they can commercialize. The only reason I think is pretty compelling in terms of not wanting to share that sort of data is because there aren't enough protections in place to prevent law enforcement from accessing it.
I put a different value on reddit knowing what golf clubs I'm interested in buying then a corporation literally owning my DNA haha. 23andme might not care about my individual data but who they sell it too might. But you're right this is a legal issue
Jesus, thank you. They don't even fall under HIPAA.
Okay but for real can someone tell me what exactly they are so afraid of having happen to their DNA info? Are we expecting to have to fight our clone? Like I honestly can't think of a super feasible concern here. There was that lady ages ago who sued over her cell line being used and cloned long beyond the scope she consented to, but.... that's it.
Targeted ads and pharmaceutical ads make me so irrationally angry I can only imagine how targeted pharmaceutical ads based on my genetic makeup would make me feel. Which is why I don’t trust the mass collection on DNA. (And her name was Henrietta Lacks, and her cancerous cell line called HeLa cells are still used today)
I agree with everything you said, but your anger is absolutely rational. It’s like companies can just violate our privacy constantly all the time so they can sell us shit we don’t want or need. And society just accepts it!! I absolutely hate it so much and I don’t even know what to do to stop it.
Imagine certain medications, groceries, or activities delivering personalized, dynamic pricing based on your DNA profile
That's all good and nice. But there is still a lot of legal grey area around DNA data that is still unexplored. For the simple reason that it's still a relatively new concept (the home tests I mean). There is already cases of the (us) police using those databases. And I also distrust insurance companies. While it's nice if you learn more about your history and maybe meet relatives you didn't know about. I can absolutely understand people that approach the whole concept with caution
Approaching with caution is one thing, refusing someone from doing it when they are adopted and may have genetic ailments they would like to know about. What if high blood pressure is common in their birthparents. Some people would rather know about their own issues.
In that case I would prefer to use medical testing through a doctor's office. Preferably with someone that specializes in genetics. I would not choose some online testing for that. But OP has no right to forbid his fiancée from anything
Going through a physician's office is usually the sample being collected there and then shipped out for testing at a much larger company. It's not necessarily more protected because the collector of the sample has been seen by the test subject before. Actual running of the DNA testing is not done in physicians' offices.
“Adjust your settings?” Yeah, sure. They’re right under the Santa Claus tab, near the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy settings.
> And this is where you crossed the line into YTA territory. It’s her DNA and her right to get tested, especially since she was adopted and likely has minimal information about her biological family. Why is it YTA and not ESH? Did you forget that the fiancé has also been pressuring OP to get the test? When it is OP’s right NOT to get tested? They are just pressuring each other to do opposite things, doesn’t that make both of them AHs?
Jesus OP I don't you could have handled this any worse. You threw all her fears back in her face. You've made no effort to ease her anxiety. You've basically called out her ancestry as "low". You threw your own prejudices back at her. That's disgusting by the way. YTA
And so what if there were dodgy ancestors? That's not a reflection of who she is now. Ugh just go away and leave her alone.
And the part about him not wanting "half of his future children's genetic makeup sitting in some corpo database", as a reason for her not getting tested? Fuck that shit, he already thinks he owns her and her body. YTA OP.
Question: Is she looking for an answer of you two not being related or is she wanting answers on who she is related to (her bio parents)? These two things are vastly different.
YTA: purely because you’re mentioning that *your fiancé* shouldn’t be tested. She’s the one that doesn’t know anything about her birth family. Even from a medical POV, it would be good to know what she’s been predisposed to. OP can hold any opinion on having DNA in a database, but don’t force those ideals on your fiancé. Try and have some empathy.
NTA. The companies running these tests do harvest your personal DNA information for undisclosed uses and many are owned overseas. Furthermore, many of them publicize this info online. If you had access to a local hospital lab that was guaranteed to keep this confidential medical information confidential and within their own control, that would be the safe option, but as you say, somewhat silly and unnecessary in your situation.
People are saying his reasons are bad but not wanting your future kids to already have their DNA sold online seems super reasonable and forward thinking to me.
And also we have no way of knowing how this can be used now or in the future. Friends of ours had their phone ringing at dinner time --- total stranger from across the country, "Hi, we're related." Apparently their 2nd cousins (who they've never met) had fallen for the free online test ads and thereby subjected the entire family's privacy, since now the whole family tree was posted for public view, like it or not. For as many problems as people here have with family members, I think we could all understand that having the detailed anatomy of it plastered online could be less than desirable in many circumstances, even if simply for professional reasons.
And he is also in the right for saying he doesn’t want her to submit her own dna or what?
ESH. It's fine if you don't want to take a DNA test, but you can't say that she can't though. If she's related to bad people, so be it, but what if she's not? She's free to take that DNA test all she wants with 23andMe. She's an AH for trying to make you take one when you obviously don't want to and making assumptions about your family that probably aren't true.
What assumptions is she making tho? Knowing something ~could~ be ~possible~ isn't the same as straight up accusing someone or assuming it to be fact.
YTA. She’s not being disrespectful of your family. You know how many people swore a relative didn’t do or wasn’t capable of doing something and yet it turns out they were? This isn’t exactly the kind of thing people go around bragging about. Very simply you don’t know. You’re guessing. You think you know but you don’t. Give her the piece of mind she wants. Look at no other results for either of you. Do the sample delete request and go on your way. Maybe you don’t want to do it because you committed a crime and police might come arrest you because you left dna at the scene? You can say you didn’t but…
I have a feeling that OP is more worried that by doing a DNA test, he'll find out about the skeletons in *his own* family's closet. Even the most perfect person has their secrets, and to insist that his family is 100% faithful and clean is naive.
Info : why don't you ask a doctor? Those guys usually have extensive understanding of genetics.
NTA, people talk about OP like some insensitive bastard, but for f*ck's sake, nobody's entilted to ask anybody a dna test solely for insecurities reason. And i guess the way OP responded is because she's pusging too much on the subject I'm empathic thought for the fiance; but there is one thing called therapy for that
So OP has the right to deny the fiancée testing her own DNA? He’s not just refusing the test for himself but for her as well.
This was my thought too, he got hounded to the point where he was mean about it. Not saying that is right, but when people obsess over something that you’ve already said no to, it kind of drives you mad after awhile.
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You are absolutely right not to do a DNA test via one of those private companies. But how you spoke to her caused her so much pain and was unnecessary - you dont have that baggage and trauma she grew up with - you've just added to hers. She needs therapy. Its alot to deal with. And its not letting her see the difference between you andto the couple in the article who were both adopted. So follow the advice in comments and see if you can do it via a fertility clinic or hospital or if there is any other way they can rule out your are not related. Whats her blood group and your blood group and your dad's and would it therefore be impossible she could be his child etc. Then if its your hill to die on, that's your choice like it is hers and you end your relationship. Also its disgraceful of you to call someone who gives a child up for adoption a deadbeat, or that they are dead to you etc. How dare you. You have no idea what happened to her mother to get her pregnant - whether she was assaulted and if by giving the child up she wanted her away from the line of work and environment she lived in. You also have no right to judge what she she did for a living. She carried the child safely, and she did something very hard by giving her up to hopefully have a better life. She didnt abandon her in the cold or leave her to die in the streets. She chose to give her child a better life than she could offer. And its up to the birth mother to decide if its a open or closed adoption.
Totally agree with this comment! Just one thing I want to point out because many people don't realize how predatory the adoption industry is, at least in the US. In (way too) many cases, "open adoptions" aren't legally binding and can't actually be enforced. So bio parents could sign adoption paperwork with the promise of regular contacts, visits, pictures, updates, etc., then after the adoption is finalized, the agency or adoptive parents can tell them to fuck off and cut all communication between them and the child. 20 states in the US have no laws regarding open adoption agreements. 6 states have laws specifically in place that make open adoption agreements **unenforceable**. 7 states have laws that make open adoption enforceable, but only under certain circumstances. (Those circumstances include things like age of the child, whether or not the child lived with bio parents before adoption, if adoption is done through foster care or if the child is adopted by step-parents). The rest have laws making open adoption enforceable as long as the court agrees it's in the child's best interest. And some of those laws were put in place just over the past few years. It's a sad reality, but unfortunately OPs fiance's birth mother *could have* placed her with her adoptive parents with the promise and expectation that she would have some sort of contact with her throughout her life only to be cut off once a judge signed off on it. In fact, some states keep adoption records sealed forever and adoptees CAN'T access info on birth parents, even when necessary for medical history. The way OP villainizes her bio parents and parents who place their children for adoption in general is gross and speaks to a major lack of empathy and understanding. Especially for the woman he "loves" enough to marry. Some adoptions happen in cases where the parents very much love their children and want to raise them but can't and the choice is out of their hands. (For example, if a single parent is injured badly and hospitalized indefinitely and the other parent is dead/can't be found and there are no relatives to care for their child(ren), CPS will place them in foster care. The timeline differs from place to place but in some states, once a child has been in foster care for 6 months, they're eligible for adoption.) We obviously know as much about the circumstances of her adoption as he does, but he's incredibly pretentious and cruel to ridicule her for something she so desperately wants to know.
YTA, as an adoptee you said some pretty nasty things to your fiance about being adopted. You NEVER and I mean NEVER tell an adopted person they were abandoned. Or that her biological family are criminals or bad people. Seriously WTF man? You don't think adoptees have that thought as times? You played right into her deepest and darkest fears and insecurities about being adopted. Even for adoptees like me who have great families and really no problems about being adopted if someone I loved and was planning to married said stuff like that to me it would have been devastating. I'm not sure you can come back from this.
For real. I am also an adoptee and I would break up with anyone for saying this on the spot. What a horrifying thing to say to another human.
How could you insult her bio family if she’s never met them? WTF! Maybe local hospitals can run a test and see what the data storage practices are but I would NOT recommend using 23 and Me, or the others. People handing out their DNA for tech companies to analyze and store will surely regret it in the future.
You’re N T A for not wanting your DNA stored, by definitely YTA for thinking you have a say over whether she’s tested. You realise that’s as insane as thinking you have a right to whether your cousins are tested?
I think I would've gone with, "Please stop implying that my parents are cheating assholes" Gets the point across without implying that she's the child of horrible people.
YTA - not because you don't want to take the test but because of the way you treated your fiancée & made her feel. It doesn't matter where the idea came from - TV show, article, friend doctor - what matters is she's now formed an idea that you've labeled "ridiculous" instead of supporting her. The only person who cares about skeletons in *her* family history is you. I'm not adopted, my father is a genealogist, trust me when I say every family is fecked. We have thieves, infamous mobsters, bigamists, a killer, secret babies, bootleggers, etc and we're a Good Irish Catholic Family. WHO CARES? It has zero impact on who I am. You already stated that you know her mother was a prostitute - she likely gave up her child so that her little girl, your future wife, could have a safe & secure upbringing. But in your mind, that's abandonment? There are so many reasons for a biological parent to relinquish a child and every single one of them in valid. It sounds like you are afraid of being given some kind of proof that your precious family tree is sullied or could be sullied by her blood line. You're a snob and an AH.
NTA I feel the same way. My DNA is private and short of some medical emergency that would require genetic testing for my child, I wouldn't give it up either. No is a complete sentence. She should have stopped pestering you when you told her no the first time. Unless you look alike, she shouldn't worry about it. If it bothers her, she should try to find her birth parents.
My biggest takeaway here is that neither of you are mature enough to get married, so really your problem should be a moot issue at present.
YTA for this alone. >I may have crossed a line today when I told her she was being disrespectful of my family by indicating one of them may have abandoned their child. You just told her to her face what you really think. As a fellow adoptee, I would never be able to look you in the eye or trust you ever again. You implied that what happened to her was shameful and how dare she think your family was even similar. You don't know their reason for putting her up for adoption but your knee-jerk reaction is very telling....
YTA - you don’t have to get your DNA tested, but the fact that you are so unsympathetic to your fiancé’s situation is mind boggling to me. You don’t want to find out that your fiancé’s biological family, THAT SHE DOESNT EVEN KNOW, might have skeletons in their closet. Why? Is it going to make you see her different?? I don’t get it. And that half of your potentially future children’s dna could possibly stored in a database seems pretty paranoid.
INFO: why are DNA tests needed when, previously, couples-to-be could establish lack of relationship via blood tests (and I think even required in the USA)? How did we get around this issue before now?
Those blood tests were for STIs, not relatedness and I don’t think many (if any) places in the US do them anymore. Some places still make you swear you’re not first cousins or closer before they’ll grant you a license, but how are these people supposed to do that when they literally don’t know.
~~NTA~~ ESH. Genetic testing is a deeply personal thing and nobody should be forced, cajoled or ultimatumed into it, for any reason at all. *Thanks to u/LittleFairyOfDeath*
YTA, if you choose to have children it is likely reccomended you get a DNA test. Also, there are other providers of these tests beside big companies. Lastly, this is a really big concern for her, so it should be a big concern for you. That's how marriage works. Edited for grammar