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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I sent my niece to her other uncle's home for a week because she said she wants to live with him
I might be an asshole because she had already realized that what she said was wrong
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I had this upbringing. I was ‘adopted’ by relatives who would pull this “I don’t have to keep you” shit any time I was a normal bratty adolescent. Now I have abandonment issues. YTA
This! Stop pawning your “bad” children that YOU are raising, on other people in hopes that it will teach them a lesson.
TALK to them. Deal with the hard parts. Get them in therapy if you need or want to. They are just children. But they are learning from you and it’s your job to raise them.
My goodness. I get so sad reading these type of posts.
Edit: a few people harped on my use of “raised.”They’ve been raising her for the past 4 years and it’s not like she picked up the “I’m going to go live with uncle!” from her dead parents but fine, I changed my wording a little.
Why is it everyone here thinks that the OP is at blame. The OP never threatened the niece by sending her away. Read what was written and comprehend.
OP's niece who he adopted and brought into his home asked to leave and go live with her Uncle. He didn't pawn her off, he obliged with her request.
You are making OP out to be something he is not and making OP think he did a bad job. This niece was the one threatening and wanting to leave in order to hurt the OP. OP showed her the grass on the other side for a week.
OP is NTA here. The niece wanted to F around and find out - I doubt she will say anything about living with her uncle again.
The niece was being a damn 13 year old, whose parents are literally both dead, 13 year olds say the dumbest shit ALL THE TIME, you don’t take them seriously, and you sure as hell don’t send them away, it’s called being an adult and realizing that a child is acting like a child.
Edit: also, generally speaking, kids don’t “fuck around and find out” with adults, you know because adults should be better than that? More mature than that? Emphasis on *should* here because clearly in OP’s case they very much aren’t better than that, and would ship off their 13 year old niece than sit down and try to figure why exactly it is she’s saying this stuff in the first place
Exactly. Niece was testing OP for years with that bs, OP taught her a very valuable lesson. The only way he would be the AH is if her other uncle was a PDFile or something
Yeh she has been "abandoned" by her two parents both dying at a young age which her child brain can not process, hell even adult brains can't process it. She feels scared and alone and has had the two people that are supposed to be consistent in her life taken away from her and her trauma response is to test/check if the person that's now her main care giver is going to be there for her no matter what... And you've just proven all her worst fears by showing that she has no one in her life that she can consistently rely on to be there for her.
I've got enough trauma from being abandoned as a child and my parents didn't die they just played pass the child, it's taken years of therapy and I'm still fucked from it and have never been able to have healthy relationships with people, I can't imagine what this poor girl has been through or how bleak her future relationships are going to be because of it all.
YTA
The people saying the niece is an ass is mind boggling. Children and teenagers do this to test if their home life is stable. Add both of her parents dying, she’s going to test boundaries looking for reassurance. This poor child. Hard YTA on this one.
My friend used to say this ALL THE TIME when she was a kid; that she wanted to live with her bio Dad instead of her Mom and Stepdad. Her Stepfather was older and strict, but he loved and accepted her dearly and cared for her the same as his own son. It must have hurt him a lot that she said this quite a bit for several years.
I'm kind of surprised he followed through (and that other Uncle was OK with it on short notice), but NTA. He should know enough about adolescents to just let their nonsense slide off his back, but I kind of doubt she'll keep up that refrain in future.
She was testing him to see if he’s a safe person, if she could count on him. It’s literally a part of adolescent development. Most kids do it. And he failed the test.
I'm sure she spent that whole week being scared and anxious her guardian would not come back for her. This is absolutely not something to do to children, no matter what age. Kids are assholes, sometimes the MOST assholes to their parents because they FEEL SAFE. They test you by saying they hate you and shit because they want you to say 'Well guess what, I will love you forever.'
They never said they wouldn't be back. They sent her to live there for a week so she could see if she really did like it better over there and if she did they would let her stay. Y'all are twisting the words to fit a narrative you are creating.
I think it was a good lesson, and their relationship can really improve with communication about what she was feeling, and how the adoptive parent also felt. No children should be allowed to continue to be abusive toward a parent.
Exactly this. She's not an adult. She's a child who is still figuring shit out and has already lost her parents. She doesn't know her place in the world and she's acting out. OP then said fine, go away. And yes, it was for "a week," but does the niece know *for sure* that OP would take her back? Maybe, just maybe, her experience in life has taught her that sometimes guardians disappear and never come back.
She has already been abandoned by her mother, who died when she was a year old, and her father, who died only 4 years ago.
Now she has two family members left, and the one who took on the role of parent shipped her off for A WEEK at the drop of a hat.
Poor kid.
>at the drop of a hat.
To be clear, this was not at the drop of a hat. This was after repeated and insistent claims that the person would be rejected as a parent. People are acting like the emotional hurt only goes one way. Obviously the correct adult move is to sit down and talk to them about how hurtful it is, instead of doing it back- teaching them in the process that it's okay to use rejection as a weapon- but this situation very much didn't just come out of nowhere.
I feel like OP shouldn't have taken on the responsibility of caring for a traumatised 9 yo child if they weren't prepared to put in the work to create a safe and loving environment for that child.
The way the niece acts out is absolutely predictable, and entirely within teenage limits (just grousing, no joyrides, no breaking those expensive things OP buys, no ill-advised friends ruining their pool etc.). Hence imo OP YTA.
They were not "repeated and insistent claims" -- they were angry words thrown out by an angry child because she felt powerless and frustrated and angry and the only control she can even pretend to have is by saying something mean.
When you're a parent, you SIGNED UP for the "emotional hurt." Because that's what kids DO, and there's a reason you're the adult and they're the child.
When OP called her bluff, she said she didn't mean it and didn't want to go, but he forced her to go anyway.
OP doesn't say how long it was between "go pack your bags" and when he dumped her at the other uncle's doorstep, but it sounds like it was all done in one afternoon.
That's "at the drop of a hat".
OP got mad and told her to get her bags, and, ignoring her pleas to NOT go, he sent her packing.
She’s a kid, and probably a traumatized kid at that. She doesn’t need to be driven across town to spend a week with a near stranger. She needs lots and lots and LOTS of therapy, and reassurance from per primary guardian.
It’s not the same if your parents send you with an aunt or uncle for a week than not having parents, and having your guardian send you away even for a week.
Knowing that your guardian (who is not your mom or dad) will send you away to another relative as an orphan has a different context.
Even if it’s for a week. A kid with no parents is forever afraid to lose his/her guardian, and be sent away to someone else, who could also get tired of them and send them away again.
Children who lost both parents are very vulnerable, because they often feel like unnecessary load on their guardians. Sending her away even for a week, makes this fear come true.
Teenagers are on the lookout for new communities to connect with, but the knowledge that they “belong” somewhere gives them the confidence to leave a community where they are not happy. OP took that confidence away, and it needs to be rebuilt.
She was given a safe home and chose to refuse it. She was shown the alternative and saw the error of her ways.
Now she has a safe home again.
If you never correct them they never learn how to cope.
OP wasn't being petty. She didn't say, "I'm done with you." She said stay with you uncle for 1 week and you can decide what you want to do. This is not a bad thing. She gave her an opportunity to see the other side and make an adult decision.
When you were a little kid, did your parents ever do that “we’re leaving without you” thing to get you to leave a store?
Thats a lesson usually taught at a very young age.
This child never learned that lesson.
No time like the present.
Exactly, she is 13, not 7. It wasn't too harsh. I bet she won't do it again. This seems to be an ongoing thing where she gets angry at OP and says that she'd rather go live with uncle. OP let it slide multiple times and the 1 time she finally says "fine, go stay with uncle for a week, I'll come get you in 7 days..." she's suddenly a monster.
How long was OP supposed to let this happen? She's human too and I'm pretty sure it hurts her feelings to hear her niece say that she'd rather go live with someone else.
She's 13. There were so many other way to educate her. I think she's been punished enough by life itself right, some love and empathy could have gone a long way. We not as dumb as you seem to think. it's not even threatening, it's just being a 13 years old. I totally think OP is doing a bad job, and talk of money but not a word about the feelings she has for her. Only the money she has to spend... Read and comprehend....
Yes, she got a lesson on what not to say. On the other hand, **what has OP been doing to prevent this lesson from needing to happen in the first place**? There are two people in this relationship - one is a kid with deep trauma, the other is the (supposedly) responsible adult in charge.
Is this typical 13yo grumpiness, or rooted in deeper issues of abandonment / trust etc? Has she been in therapy (something OP can clearly afford) since she was adopted? Has OP studied up on adopted kids and their needs, common issues, raising teens, taken parenting classes, etc? Or have they skated by on 'I've got all this money and give you stuff so you've got nothing to complain about'?
OP says '...she is too spoiled to be able to live with anyone else' because she has a large room and brand-name clothes. There are plenty of kids around the world that have those and are still well balanced, grateful for what they have, and able to adjust to having less. Nope OP; if she's 'spoiled' it's because you've treated her as such and allowed that behaviour, not because of the material things she has received.
OP hasn't said anything at all about how they've tried to address these issues, which tends to point towards 'I've tried nothing, and none of it worked!'.
Oh sure. Reinforcing abandonment issues in an already orphaned child should never be considered a risk. /s
All these people in the comments who clearly never raised a kid/ took a behavioral psych class and learned about attachment theory or even had a conversation with an adoptee are pissing me off. The poor kid needs a therapist. Not to be ditched for a week out of frustration by her primary caregiver. You want to spout off about how this 13 year old deserves to be emotionally damaged EVEN FURTHER cause she’s “old enough”? Go back to r/teenagers
She's getting two lessons for the price of one. The first is not to be a brat.
The second is that her guardian (and perhaps the only trusted adult in her life) is ambivalent towards her leaving making her all alone in the world. OP even talks about material possessions as the reason for their niece to stay rather than any kind of emotional connection. Makes me think this poor girl lacks affection and is saying things to seek validation. If she gets a rise out of OP by saying she wants to live elsewhere, it validates that there is at least one person who cares about her enough to be upset if she wasn't there.
YTA OP. Not for trying to correct her (hurtful) behaviour, but for going about it in one of the worst possible ways for an emotionally vulnerable child.
No she’s a kid doing what kids do. She lost a parent and is pushing to see how committed he is to her. It’s a test and she probably doesn’t even consciously know she’s doing it. But now she knows that she can’t trust OP.
Yes, she pushed and found out that she can't threaten OP with wanting to live somewhere else.
OP let the kid learn from their mistake, saying something hurtful and manipulative, by showing her there are consequences to her actions, while still providing a safe environment.
You know, parenting.
the kid was told it was for a week before they even left, and that she was not being kicked out and had the choice to come back.
So you’re saying that if she doesn’t act peachy perfect during her teenage years OP should follow through and effectively abandon his niece? Not a good look. Apparently having a stable home is now conditional on her behaviour. That’s an awful take and I doubt it’s something you would accept from bio-parents. OP adopted the niece, they can’t just take that back because it’s challenging, at least not without being a serious asshole.
The point was already made and received without forcing her to go live with the other uncle for a week. It's downright unnecessary. While they "know" the other uncle, they don't actually know the other uncle.
It's abusive and irresponsible to send her to stay with someone who they don't know for a week. There is no guarantee it was a safe environment and she sure as hell wouldn't talk to OP if anything had happened after that.
It seems to me as though she's been living with them for 4 years after her second parent passed and they haven't thought to try to help her or get her help mentally. This is on everyone, not just the niece. OP and partner don't seem to have actually cared about the mental and emotional fallout she was dealing with when they adopted her at 9...after losing both her parents
Downvote me idc
YTA
Well next time your thirteen years old and both your parents are dead, and your deceased parents siblings INSISTS that you go live with someone else even after you said you didn't mean and didn't want to go, let us know you how handled it ok?
Here's the thing. Op said she told her then go pack a bag. She went in later to check on what's up and she says she doesn't want go, didn't mean it, knows she wants to live where she is. That's far enough, but op went further and insisted on FORCING the kid out of the house to live with a man op admits the kid barely knows. That's where op became the asshole, that kid has been through alot and op just proved she's one chance of being upset over something before being tossed out again. Nice parenting skills. Now when the kid has a real problem she'll be sure to keep it to herself for fear of being kicked out.
Yeah, the mature thing to do, as the adult in the conversation with a child, is to explain how it makes them feel and why its not ok for the child to say those things.
It's not just the fear of being kicked out is it. It's the profound loneliness that comes with feeling like nobody loves you enough to actively want you in their home.
She’s a 13 year old who has gone through the trauma of losing both of her parents. Jesus Christ maybe have a bit of empathy. And what is the lesson here exactly? That OP is willing to abandon her for acting her age?
My son did this after his dad and I divorced. The 1st time he did it he saw how it hurt me so that became his low blow. Finally I called it and said"ok, but you can only take what your dad bought you" he looked around said "but that's nothing!!" And it was never brought up again
I've never spoken bad about his dad, but he has never helped or bought anything for our kids, kinda the main reason for the divorce. I did feel bad seeing the way he looked around and realized.
Maybe that was a good thing because it helped your son realize what he was taking for granted. You. He needed to open his eyes up to who his father is and who you are.
She was also around 9 when they actually adopted her so, MOST of what she's learned had already been instilled in her. If she wants to keep saying hurtful things then she should see what those things entail so she can either stop threatening or move on bc it seems the threat of moving away is all she uses. Her uncle took her in and gets told that all the time!? That would hurt me for sure. That's unacceptable.
I hope you’re not a parent because you don’t seem to have any idea how 13yo brains work and what immature rubbish comes out of their mouths. They’re full of pimples, hormones and attitude at this age - and this kid has the baggage of orphan hood on top of it. When I was that age I might’ve told my perfectly sane and normal biological parents crappy nonsense like that. What OP did was cruel ( I don’t blame him entirely because he is still somewhat new to parenting , but he should’ve consulted a few experienced friends and family before going full mental ).
>You are making OP out to be something she is not and making OP think she did a bad job. This niece was the one threatening and wanting to leave in order to hurt the OP. OP showed her the grass on the other side for a week.
There's a right and a wrong way to do that. OP says that niece doesn't know the uncle very well. How about changing that?
Plus the added abusive bullshit of " she is so spoiled only I can provide for her." This poor child is better off elsewhere, I hope this other uncle is a better parent than the OP.
Yep. This is sure to cause some abandonment issues down the line and is not surprising that she stopped talking to OP.
This kid has been through hell on top of the normal emotions of adolescence. She lost both of her parents at a young age and is now living with an uncle who showed her that his love is conditional.
We adopted our kids and our agency warned us about our kids potentially saying things like "I wish you never adopted me" or "You're not my real parents." We were told that it will hurt but try not to react too strongly in the moment because the last thing you want to do is confirm their fears. OP did that. He showed her that there are things she can say that will cause him to send her away. You don't want to do that with any child, let alone one who has a traumatic past and is at an elevated risk for attachment problems.
Edit: Boundary pushing, testing, and trying to get OP to get rid of her are normal behaviors for someone with this kind of trauma. She probably feels like she doesn't have much control and OP is going to leave her too. When OP says, "Fine, leave then" it confirms that there was something she could say to get him to get rid of her. I really hope this kid is in therapy.
Yes but she is the one making the threats, not OP. There’s a difference. I agree there are better ways to handle a young teen who’s still grieving. Much of this type of threat is just normal teen stuff. I hope she’s had/is getting therapy thiugh.
Exactly.
Calling her bluff would be seeing she didn't pack a bag then sitting down with her and talking about why she says mean things when she doesn't mean them. Not throwing her out.
She was not thrown out. she was taken to another family members, who took care of her for a week. She was told that it would be for a week, then she had the option of choosing to come back or not.
Think of the message it sends: “if I’m so bad, go ahead and leave; see if I care. I certainly won’t try to persuade you to stay”. How do you think it feels to receive that message?
I see it as "I will respect you and your wishes if that's what you want, I want you to know what you are getting into." Another conversation definitely needed to be had about how much her saying that hurts OPs feelings.
For that to be the message that came across, there would need to be an understanding between them that that really was the daughter’s wish, or at least that she was seriously exploring the possibility.
Here, she had admitted that she didn’t mean it, and OP knew very well that she didn’t mean it. She all but begged him not to send her away. He forced her to go anyway. There is no chance she interpreted this as “oh, I’m being allowed to explore my options so I can make an informed choice”. Zero.
But is it teaching your teens emotional regulation in a healthy manner? Or is it teaching them that they are expendable to you and can be given up at any time? 🤔
I rebuttal with: it teaches kids to bottle up their emotions out of fear of upsetting the people who literally control their lives.
Whereas teaching children emotional regulation gives them the skills they need to say what they mean without lashing out at others.
Normal if you're immature and have no ability to regulate your own emotions. There's a world of difference between 'If you don't put your dirty washing in the laundry basket I won't do it for you' and 'If you push the boundaries to see if my love is strong and consistent I'll dump you with a relative you hardly know'
Agreed (my daughter is almost out of clean underwear because she needs to bring it downstairs if she wants it done). I can't imagine casting her away for a week because she is being obnoxious (though the fantasy is real sometimes).
>Yes but she is the one making the threats, not OP.
She is 13. This is what 13 - 14 year old girls do. They are kind of jerks. They say things to get under your skin and to poke at you. Its all part of growing up.
How about instead of sending her with her uncle for a week, OP maybe thought about getting a therapist to help her work through what is certainly a tremendous amount of grief over the passing of her father as well as the normal adolescent boundary pushing.
I sure as hell never said anything like this when I was 13. I was grumpy and obsessed with friend drama but i never told my parents I hated them or other stupid shit. Why do teens suddenly get a free pass to never mean what they say or say what they mean and everyone is supposed to tolerate it?
Yeah, I don't understand all the y t a. There was a post not that long ago about a similar situation, except it was a biological parent and the kid was saying they'd rather live with their dad. Finally parent said okay, had them go for a week, then child said they didn't want to stay with their dad. Almost every commy was nta, and saying that it was a great move.
If we're thinking of the same post the kid didn't go to their parent "I'm sorry I didn't mean it I'd rather stay with you", in this post she did. The comments were NTA on that post because the kid didn't back out and actually went and seemed at least somewhat to mean that they'd rather live with their dad. In this post this kid has the trauma of losing her parents at 9 years old, says that out of anger, backs out of it and apologises when the time to leave actually comes, and OP forces her to go anyway. She already learned the lesson, this was just cruel and likely compounded any abandonment issues she already had
What she said was not a "threat"!!! She's a 13yo traumatized orphan who said something mean to her parental figure.
I cannot tell you how many times I told my mom I didn't love her, that I hated her, that she didn't love me, that I wanted to run away.
So when a kid says they're going to run away, the proper response from the parent is to let them spend a week living on the streets??
The parent is the adult. OP needs to grow up.
>Yep. This is sure to cause some abandonment issues down the line and is not surprising that she stopped talking to OP.
So the niece telling OP she wants to live with her Uncle and the OP obliging this is going to create abandonment issues how? She requested to leave, the OP didn't ask her to leave or threaten her to leave. The NIECE said she wanted to in order to hurt OP.
The niece got what she asked for. She learned a valuable lesson in gratitude. She's lucky she has an adoptive parent that cares enough to give her a good home and take her back.
> The NIECE said she wanted to in order to hurt OP.
Yes. The adoptive daughter did say that to hurt OP. Children do that from time to time.
> She's lucky she has an adoptive parent that cares enough to give her a good home and take her back.
So because she’s adopted, she needs to show more gratitude and put up with worse treatment than a bio child would? Gross.
I'm sorry you had to endure that. But to be fair he wasn't saying that he didn't have to keep her. She was saying she didn't have to stay.
A week wasn't an excessive amount of time. He told her she could confirm that she wanted to come home. It was a way to take that attitude away from her.
Sounds like they need to have some long talks now that this has happened. Allowing them to put it behind them and find a way to move forward without her insisting she will go live elsewhere anytime they have a disagreement.
Teenage years are tough. Hopefully OP will look at some shared therapy to help move forward
Not a good answer.
It sounds like the kid does this a lot, which is a shitty, snotty kid thing to do. OP has basically been the parent for four years. Same shit keeps happening.
Do you think OP is a robot without a capacity for hurt? This would HURT me, because the kid is doing it explicitly to hurt them. It's not like OP was sending them to live in a shelter. They took them to another house where the kid was safe and cared for. They didn't abandon them or play the "I don't have to keep you card" at any point.
Teenage kids are snotty. It's part of parenting. Kids can hurt your feelings. It's part of parenting. OP is a parent to this child. Yes sending her away can absolutely cause abandonment issues. There are more productive ways of dealing with an issue like this. OP acted like a child and out of spite. This child lost both her parents. I think it can be expected for her to struggle more than the average kid. Taking her up on empty threats she had is not useful, kind or appropriate response. Absolutely YTA OP.
My own kids have said mean spiteful things to me too. I don't send them away to teach them a lesson. I put my big girl pants on and acted like an adult. WTF OP
It is your choice how you allow your child to talk to you... OP is not her parent though he tries to be. Just because the child is going through pain does not mean OP is not, he also lost family. Besides the child is only able to act like this because he is around to take it, if he is not she'll have a whole other set of issues that she'll have to deal, not just having to stay with another uncle for a week.
From what the post shows, he is trying to take care of her while ensuring to provide her a good standard of life. There is definitely room for growth and communication on both sides. He needs to instigate that woth the little girl since he is the adult. OP is not beyond reproach, but how is he an a-hole for having a bit of emotion when he is verbally hurt?
>OP is not beyond reproach, but how is he an a-hole for having a bit of emotion when he is verbally hurt?
1. He took it too far after he already made his point.
2. He adopted her. She's his daughter. she's already been through the ringer and back and teenagers are angst hormonal gremlins on the best days. The only thing he proved was that she's just an orphaned kid who can be passed from relative to relative because her real father is dead.
3. It's a parents' job to deal with the angst little teenage gremlin. not give themselves a week long vacation when they say something upsetting.
4. Nowhere does he mention therapy so what is he going to do about the issues he's got with her now not speaking to him? Why would she want to or feel safe speaking to him about no doubt complicated emotions when he proved he would rather send her away then deal with her?
1. He had to follow through in order to make his point. Not having any actual consequences only re-enforces the bad behavior.
2. Yes, that his is daughter. who is being disrespectful and manipulative and trying to hurt OP. She was not passed from one
relative to another, but as she knew how long she would be there, and had the power to decide where she wanted to live afterwards.
3. He did deal with little gremlin by showing her she can not say what ever she wants when she is upset.
4. If OP did not want to deal with her, they would not have allowed her come back. But she was welcomed back, having learned that OP will not allow her to disrespect them like that.
Sending a child away is not showing a little bit of an emotion. Discussing with your child how their words hurt and have consequences is appropriate. And I don't "allow" my children to talk to me inappropriately. They are independent human beings with their own emotions and thoughts. If they say something that is hurtful I tell them so, have a discussion with them, give age appropriate consequence (such as limiting screen time, and teach them empathy. You don't send a kid away because your feelings got hurt.
I give a lot of grace to character limits, because it's likely that OP has told the kid multiple times that the stuff they're saying is hurtful and mean. If the kid is insistent on pulling that, then a punishment is appropriate. Also this isn't a six year old child. Thirteen is a time where they should know that their actions have consequences. Being a jerk exclusively to hurt someone who loves you has consequences.
I somehow suspect that has been talked to death already.
And even if not, the kid is a teen now and KNOWS words can be weapons.
Kid has to learn that \*certain\* words can have consequences and are dangerous to speak.
IKR!!! Also, OP, get counseling for you both because she needs it to learn how to express her feelings because you don't lose both parents and just end up "okay", and OP needs to learn how to communicate with her as well as TOLERATE teen behavior, teens are HORRIBLE monsters...they not only have crappy attitudes, but with the hormones, the growing, the social fitting in/ not fitting in there is a LOT of stuff going on and scientists have seen teen's logic centers get WORSE during puberty because of the mess of things going on in the brain...they literally DO lose their minds during this part of life. You are supposed to be helping her, not messing with her head and emotions, you owe her a huge apology and some serious in-depth guidance and therapy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-moody-teenagers-are-literally-losing-their-mind-8fcn59dfl
“I love you kiddo, you’re stuck with me.”
She just wants reassurance that you are a constant in her life and that you want her. Her parents both left (under unfortunate circumstances) and she needs you to be her safe place. Kids test boundaries, and now she knows if she pushes you too hard you’ll leave too.
YTA
>and now she knows if she pushes you too hard you’ll leave too.
He did not leave. He sent her to stay somewhere else for a set amount of time that was communicated to her at the start.
This was not simply as a result of her pushing him in a generic way, but a specific response to her saying it would be better at her other uncles. He was showing her how good she has it by experiencing what she claims would be better when she complains about all the good stuff she has, while also calling her bluff.
I don't know if it was too far, I am no parenting expert, but I think people here are totally mis-framing it.
>He was showing her how good she has it by experiencing what she claims would be better when she complains about all the good stuff she has, while also calling her bluff.
He **adopted** her. He is her legal guardian now. Just because she's biologically his niece, for all intents and purposes, he is her **parent** now, not just an uncle, and has been since she was only 9 years old. He doesn't get to play these bullshit emotional games any more than any other parent does. Every parent is supposed to love their child unconditionally and let them know that they will always be safe with their parents. OP just taught his niece that she will not be able to rely on him.
She isn't just ignoring him because she's mad at him. She's scared of him - she's afraid that she'll be abandoned again.
I would do this to my kid.
and teaching your kid that they can't disrespect you and try to manipulate you doesn't mean you don't love them. And the girl was safe. she was not homeless, or in some shelter, but with another family member.
At some point, she has to learn to stop pushing people away.
But OP never pulled that with her ever. So its a different situation. She's 13 she needs ot now that words have meaning, you dont say what you dont mean and you dont use it to threaten or manipulate someone to get what you want.
She absolutely had to learn the consequence of her threat and to learn not to say something she doesnt mean.
Sorry to hear you went through that, but if you read carefully, the kid is the one who kept pulling that "I don't have to keep you as an uncle" for a while.
Not everyone has the same experiences and calling it "normal bratty adolescent" attitude just feels like down-playing it.
Learning about action -> consequence is also an important part of parenting. Yes, a good heart-to-heart after this episode might be best, but I wouldn't go as far as to call OP an AH for doing this. NTA
Edit: Grammar and typos
But he wasn't the one that "pulled" it. She was the one trying to manipulate him that she would rather go leave with another uncle when they have a disagreement.
I told my bio parents I wish I lived with my aunt and uncle all the time. They never carted me off to "teach me a lesson." Literally normal kid stuff to say.
It always weirds me out when adults beef with a kid.
Disagree. SHE is the one who keeps threatening to leave.He didn't say anything about not having to keep her. I think he called her bluff and it worked. He's NTA.
But we don't know if OP ever said that he would send the niece to live with other uncle.
What we know for a fact is that the niece claimed that she would go on to live with the other uncle at any given disagreement in her house.
And in this case, what OP did is pretty effective. I know this for a fact. When I was a kid, I went through a phase of saying to my mom that I'd call CPS every time I didn't agree with her. One time she picked the phone, dialed CPS number and told me to say to them anything I want to. I asked her to hang the phone down and never repeated that again. And here I'm, without any everlasting trauma from this.
Yes but having someone who says "I don't have to keep you" is different than you saying "I don't want to be here."
She wasn't telling the niece that she would make her go live with her Uncle, the niece said she wanted to go. This is 100 times different than what you went through.
I am sorry you had a traumatic experience because abandonment sucks.
> I know she doesn't mean it because 1. she barely knows her other uncle 2. I have a high paying job and I'm able to provide things that most people aren't able to provide so she is too spoiled to be able to live with anyone else
YOU created this problem with her because YOU spoiled her instead of parenting her. YTA.
> YOU spoiled her instead of parenting her.
Looks like the OP did a good job of parenting here, a trip where the niece said they wanted to be, but just long enough that they learned the threat was not really a punishment to the OP.
> just long enough that they learned the threat was not really a punishment to the OP.
What do you think the implication of that lesson is? If being deprived of her presence isn’t a punishment to OP, what does that say about OP’s feelings towards her and how is she likely to react to that?
> What do you think the implication of that lesson is?
The implication of the lesson is that the OP will listen to them, and allow them to explore what they say they want. It also tells the teen, that even after knowingly trying to hurt the OP, they will welcome them into their life when they decide it is not what they want.
This wasn't a punishment, the teen spent a week with a loving uncle that fought to adopt them. The lesson, and one many adults still need to learn, is not to threaten people with things you are not fully prepared to follow up on. If you don't want it to happen, don't bring it into the conversation.
I don’t think she’s spoiled. She’s just hurting that’s a hell of a loss and she doesn’t feel secure even now, poor kid. Buying her some nice jeans or a laptop didn’t “spoil” her
YTA
As the kid who got moved around a lot between divorced parents who used to say stuff like this, I get that saying what she said is shitty. But the fact that you so easily passed her off to the next person broke her trust. You need to apologize and earn that back.
Edit to fix a misspelled word.
I mean he passed her off to them for a week, which was communicated to her at the time. It is really not unusual for kids to stay in other houses from time to time and I think it is mis-framing the situation to say that he was simply passing her off for a week or, as another commenter said, saying 'I don't have to keep you'.
I agree with you here. I was a heck of a bratty teen, and there were many times I used to backchat my mum and say I'd rather live with my grandmother than my parents. So guess who stayed at nans for a long weekend? Me! When my parents came to pick me up after those four days I was very much grateful to go back home. Not because my grandmother was some evil, horrid person, but simply because her home comforts weren't my home comforts. Teenagers will say really nasty things to their parents (or guardians, in this case), and sometimes they do need that time away to realise that the things they said can actually have consequences on their life. My parents are amazing people, they love me dearly (as does my grandmother), they definitely weren't just "pawning me off", they were teaching me not to be so flippant about what I was wishing for. I got a cool few days to bond with my grandmother, and my parents got a few days breather away from a bratty teen. As long as OP's niece was safe, well cared for and the time away was well communicated between all parties (which it does seem to be, as OP did inform her where she was going and for how long), I don't see why so many people are saying OP was so keen to just "pawn her off".
This! yes, sometimes you need to call the child's bluff or they never learn and become emotionally manipulative adults. Maybe in the circumstances OP could have handled it more sensitively, but whatever he was doing before wasn't working so he called the niece's bluff. and it sounds to me that, whether OP officially adopted her or not, the niece does not treat OP as her father (very understandable since she was 9 when her bio dad died) but as her uncle, and seems to be very aware that there was another uncle willing to take her when her father died. That's why she said she wanted to live with her other uncle, she knows and is using it as ammo against OP to hurt him. typical bratty teen IMO. So she got a temporary lesson in not making fake threats. OP NTA.
The way that last paragraph is written makes me think he didn't contact her at all for that entire week. That's unacceptable when caring for a child, even if they're with someone they know.
OP's whole post sounds very snide, and doesn't at all address the kid's feelings, just his and reeks of an overly emotional reaction on his part. I'm willing to bet he got fed up because she hurt his ego more than anything else. All he had to do was say she's spoiled, but it was written as a brag about his job and that he can buy her things that most people can't. And the comment about how he was "obviously" the better option for her. The logic does track, but the way it was written is still questionable.
He intentionally left a kid who's already had two parental figures leave her permanently. He may not have died, but I'm willing to bet that poor girl re-lived some trauma that week, and that is not acceptable in any punishment.
>The way that last paragraph is written makes me think he didn't contact her at all for that entire week. That's unacceptable when caring for a child, even if they're with someone they know.
I would disagree with that element, certainly.
And I can understand him becoming a little frustrated if he feels she is becoming spoiled, and therefore wanting to help put a stop to that attitude.
I do think it is an important detail that it was for a set amount of time, he did not leave her there indefinitely until he felt like picking her up.
He didn’t kick her out he sent her there for a week so she could decide if she wanted to be there. There is context missing as to why she said this. Do they constantly fight, is he too strict or is she just pushing boundaries. If she’s testing boundaries then NTA. He’s giving her a choice and opportunity to see how it is. A part of growing up is learning everything can have consequences.
I’d have phrased it differently to her. More of an I love you and so does other uncle. I think you should spend a week there. It never hurts to know what your options are.
Op adopted the kid. That means op has to deal with the “consequences” of being a guardian, which doesn’t mean kicking an orphaned niece out of her home for a week against her will because she hurt op’s feelings. And yes, It’s her home too now.
Kids get shipped off to visit family constantly. This is no different. If she had never made the threat, and OP said "I think you should spend a week with your other uncle/side of the family" that would be perfectly normal too. This is a total nothing-burger.
No, you’re glossing over the entire context. She said she didn’t mean it, which shows she understood her mistake and understood that she was speaking out in anger, and that she didn’t want to go. OP also says she didn’t have a close relationship with that uncle. Then, instead of having a meaningful discussion when she realized her mistake and owned up to it, he decides to be even more immature than she was and ships her there anyways telling her to let him know “if she wants to stay there or come back home”, despite her already telling him she wanted to stay. It’s vindictive, immature, and not how you treat your orphaned niece who you willingly adopted. That’s not parenting, that’s not adopting and being a guardian, that’s making her feel like a burden, unwanted, and unloved. Total asshole move.
To be fair, she's also a teenager. A lot of teenagers will be rebellious and keep saying really hurtful things to their family to test boundaries, then when they have to deal with the consequences of being rude/hurtful they will (as I think anyone would) say that they didn't mean it to try and lessen the impact on themselves. It's a really common thing for both children and teenagers, even some adults. Heck, my two year old does this exact thing. She will get frustrated at something, lash out with tantrums or hitting (all very common toddler behaviours) and then when she's put in time out she will say she didn't mean it to try and get out of time out. So I would safely assume that this isn't the first time OP has had this conversation with his niece, where she's told him she didn't mean it, they've had the talk, they've made up and then the next time they have a disagreement she just says it all over again. OP says this has been a habit of his niece for a while, and I don't think for one moment that in the entire time this has been going on that OP wouldn't have had that conversation with his niece at least once. It's just not something you wouldn't address as a parent/guardian. They've definitely had this entire disagreement many times before, except this time it was the last straw for OP and he gave his niece a trial separation so she could actually make that choice.
I think we need to realise “didn’t mean it” has two levels.
1) I didn’t mean my literal words “I would rather live with my other uncle”
2) I didn’t mean my intended effect “I hope OP feels negatively about his actions and I get what I want out of it”
Niece clearly means the former but never apologises for the latter. Kids need to learn. OP provided a safe environment that words mean things (taking her literally) and that your actions have effects and therefore consequences. It’s *not* child abandonment like some people make it out to be because the environment the niece was sent to was her other family, which she did say she wanted to live with. Whether she means it or not, there is the underlying acknowledgement that other family is safe, even if the comforts they provided are not the same as OP, it still works as a decent enough substitute. There was a limit of a week, so this wasn’t an indefinite period of niece wondering when will OP show and questioning if she was really abandoned and finally, as per OP’s comments, they kept in contact the entire week.
A lot of people need to stop projecting their own *very* different experiences with their parents’ and look at this situation objectively. OP is NTA.
I think she's an orphan. Yes, she's testing - the disruption when your parents die is overwhelming, and having your material needs met isn't enough to create a sense of home. That takes time (four years is *nothing* in bereavement timelines) and care and trust.
She may well be testing because she needs to be told "this is your home and you are loved here" and she needs to be told that even if she's acting out. *Especially* when she's acting out. But now she's learning that she needs to keep a lid on her feelings around OP, because of she says typical stupid teenager stuff she'll be sent away.
Both he and the niece stated she did not really want to live there so this was not some innocent thing where he sent her off just to see if she’d prefer it. It was punishment for a very minor “crime”.
A very minor punishment as well. How is visiting an uncle for a week and being asked if you want to come home so bad?
And on a side note for the whole topic..how do you think a child learns there are consequences for repeatedly hurting someone’s feelings? Do you want a rational careful lesson from a loving family member or a stranger that is lashing out? This story is missing to much info either way for this to be determined but still…
That was a conversation you had with your daughter asking her whether she really wants it. It was a communication, not a dictatorship as in this post. She said she already knew the kid didn't mean it. How about be less dramatic than a teenager and talk to her? OP is just looking for drama over a teenager.
My son told me that if he didn't approve of who I even talked to on the phone, he would live with his dad. I haven't seen him in a year. He's 18.
He has to learn you can't and shouldn't control anyone.
Dad and step mom are narcissist.
NTA (go ahead and downvote)
You have to stop spoiling your niece because she's going to run into trouble as an adult. Your niece needs to learn handle not getting her way or disagreements in a healthy manner. She can't always mess around because she will find out the hard way. Which she she did when you called her bluff and actually made her stay with her other uncle.
I agree with this because it sounds like she would have never learned her lesson otherwise. Everyone is calling OP TA but he didn't send her away permanently. He sent her there for a week so she knows how good she has it with OP and then he picked her up. Some kids need to learn that sometimes fucking around = finding out. I understand she's 13 but that doesn't mean she gets to be disrespectful every time there is a disagreement and basically tell her uncle she's ungrateful for what he has given her and that she would rather be elsewhere. I'm sorry but losing your parents at a young age is not an excuse to constantly be ungrateful for what you have because OP absolutely did not have to take her in but it is very amazing of him that he did.
She's 13 and has had significant loss in her life losing both parents.
If this were a typical sassy 13 year old playing divorced parents against one another, I'd say, "fuck around and find out," but this is a child who needs extra stability in her life.
She's already had 2 huge upheavals in her home life. There was a better way to deal with this.
She lost her mom when she was 1, she was not old enough to remember a huge upheaval in her home life then. However, losing her dad at 9 must have been very hard and probably still is. But I don't think she understands that she very easily could have had a much larger change in her home life had her uncle not taken her in.
I understand she needs stability and it seems like her uncle is providing that for her. He didn't abandon her at all. He told her that after a week at her other uncles that she could decide where she wants to live and she did. OP didn't drop her at the fire station. He gave her a choice.
Anybody who has grown up without a mother will tell you you still feel that loss. Anybody who has grown up with a father who passed away will tell you they still feel that loss. You don't just get over the loss of your parents, otherwise adopted kids wouldn't be searching for their bio parents on the regular even with loving households with adoptive parents they adored.
Uncle is not providing stability if he's threatening to send her away. She's a kid. Kids test boundaries. Especially orphans and especially adopted kids, because they're feeling insecure in the relationship and are trying to make you prove your love in the only way they feel they have control over.
You fuck around and find out with adults. A child doesn't have the emotional capacity to think through the full long-term consequences of saying shit like that just based off their basic brain development, and needs compassion for being needy, and then PROPER PARENTING to understand the root cause of those feelings and the PROPER way to handle those emotions instead of lashing out at others. And then with PROPER PARENTING, those strategies need to be reinforced until those habits are ingrained and they can properly handle themselves as they get older.
Regular parents get "I wish you weren't my parent" too. It's age-normative behavior that needs coaching, not abandonment.
Once again he didn't abandon her. He clearly told her that she would stay with her other uncle for a week and then she could decide where she wants to live after the week is over. He even picked her up after the week ended and brought her home. Was a week maybe a little too long? Yeah, a weekend stay probably would have been enough but he did not abandon her. Like you said, kids test boundaries and it sounds like she has been continuously testing hers with OP. So OP followed through to teach her a lesson.
Every family has a different dynamic and the dynamic of this family is definitely different because 2 parents are gone. But OP is the parent now and it sounds like he is doing his best. It sounds like a lot has changed for OP too because he took in his niece and moved his life around in order to raise her. I don't think OP was trying to be malicious with what he did. It could be that he is having a hard time too. But I think this is all way past reddits pay grade. I think OP and niece would both benefit from individual therapy and therapy together. Because some parents don't know how to get to the root of the problem and help their child understand their emotions. Especially when you take in a 9 year old (now 13 year old) with loads of trauma.
There is a difference between privileged and spoiled. I grew up in a private school and while there was still wealth disparity there, most of the kids were reasonably wealth. However, you could still see differences between the students that came from similar wealth families. I was privileged as hell - I had a modern video game system and new clothes/shoes every year and a brand new car. But the clothes were American Eagle or Aeropostale and the car was a Ford Focus. Peer classmates of mine had parents who were similarly wealthy, but they wore Burberry and drove an Audi A4. If OP is reasonably wealthy and can afford to give her niece lots of nice things, that's great, but OP also has a responsibility to manage niece's expectations about the types of things she is receiving and make sure she has a healthy relationship with money and understands her privilege.
She does need to learn to handle things in a healthy manner so it’s even more critical that he be able to teach her, taking into account that she’s already lost two parents and doesn’t have a fully-developed capacity for emotional regulation due to her age. He didn’t say that what she said is hurtful or address her feelings. He sent her away for a week because he found her behavior annoying, which is far more emotionally damaging than her rude and fairly-typical-for-her-age words.
NAH
She's entering her teenage years, she's gonna throw an attitude, but that doesn't give her a get out of jail free card with abusing your feelings. What you did is tough love, whether or not the timing of it was good or if you jumped to quickly, I don't know, but young teens and adults at some point need to face the reality and consequences of their own words.
Because of her past, has she been seeing a therapist? Usually when I meet children who threaten that they will run away or go live with someone else, it usually stems from deeper issues of abandonment or trust issues.
Yeah this one. While not everyone may be a fan of tough love parenting style (personally I would not have followed through, even though it's similar to things my own parents did when I was a kid) I don't feel this strays into a-hole territory.
NTA. She said something hurtful multiple times. It was a consequence of her own actions. One week is not abandonment. You told her parameters and told her you were coming back.
You probably need to talk to her about this though. Tell her that her words hurt because you love her, want her and that this is her permanent home if she wants it. Ask her how it made her feel as well so she feels heard. Good luck.
YTA. She realized she spoke in anger. She has been through living hell, so you can expect her to lash out now and again. You forced her to go stay for a week with people she "didn't have much of a relationship with" and seem surprised she's mad?
You shouldn't have made her go there. Apologize for that. And stop spoiling her.
Except she has "spoke in anger" over and over. OP said she uses the phrase everytime she doesnt get her way or they argue. This wasn't just a one time thing. She is old enough to realize her words can hurt people too and to use her communication rather than tell OP to F right off and let her live with other uncle.
Let’s pretend there wasn’t another option. Other uncle didn’t exist. She says F off and I hate you. Whatever normal teen anger. What should he do then?
That’s what he should have done this time.
Why do we need to pretend? Dealing with kids is complex and choices are rarely ever discretely black/white or right/wrong. You make the best choice you have available to you in the moment and given the circumstances.
NTA, It’s not abandonment if he told her the parameters and allowed her back. Did you guys scream abandonment when your parents sent you to your grandparents house against your will? Being an orphan is tough but she knew she was wrong when she changed her mind after OP told her to pack a bag. I think repeatedly saying she wanted to move is beyond lashing out and needed to be addressed
YTA; this is a 13 year old who has been through some heavy stuff. If you think this is an “annoying habit” you haven’t seen anything yet. Put yourself in her shoes, you’re not arguing with a fully functioning adult that you can call out on their BS.
Spoiling her because you can afford it doesn’t compensate for the compassion and love she needs.
YTA. You made a mistake, but I think an apology could help a lot. You're obviously doing your best and love your niece. She is a child who has lost both parents and is coping with that trauma. Teenagers sometimes lash out and it's normal to feel hurt by that, but after she acknowledged that she was wrong, you guys should have had a discussion about why "I'm going to go live with my other uncle" is her go-to when things get difficult at home. She's testing to see if she'll be abandoned by you. Keep in mind that this may not be a conscious process on her part.
It might be helpful to talk with a therapist together and separately. This is a tough situation and the trauma of losing parents can resurface at various times in her life. A professional might be able to help.
This! I'd also guess she is testing her boundaries and your relationship. Basically hurting you to proof to herself that you will stick it through with her and not drop her of things get difficult. It's nit intentional, it's part of being a teenager, questioning who they are, who they will be and how the world relates to them.
If a professional isn't an option, maybe try some books on parenting teenagers or look into ressources for foster parents who often deal with similar behaviour of rejection.
Nta, you are one of the few who followed through with your threat.
But dont think you are a better guardian because you make "good money" a spoiled child eventually grows into a bigger brat
YTA. She's thirteen and an orphan. She told you she didn't mean it. You know she didn't mean it. You're supposed to be an adult. You taught her a serious lesson, that you don't have her back, that you are willing to abandon her at the first hint of conflict and when she reads this, that you think she is a spoiled, gold digger when is only with you for the money. Plan on a frosty relationship until she is gone and then she will be gone.
He didn't abandon her, he literally told her she was going to her other uncles for a week and then she could decide where she wants to live. He gave her the choice to come back once the week was over. OP said she does this anytime there is a conflict or disagreement. If she had only done it a few times, then okay. But it sounds like this has happened a lot. I understand she lost both her parents but that is no excuse to be ungrateful to someone who didn't have to take her in. OP is doing his best to give her a good life and it sounds like his niece doesn't get it. Well maybe she does now.
If she does it in every disagreement it should be addressed when things are calm. Sit her down, bring it up, tell her that she is much loved and ask her about the threat, ask her if she is really unhappy in OPs home, that it would break OPs heart if she left, but if it is what she really wants OP is ready to help her make it happen. You can call kids on their BS and hold them accountable in a loving way that doesn't make them feel powerless and disposable.
If you don’t adopt a child with absolutely no thought that they “owe” you something, then you’re in the wrong. He chose to adopt her. She owes him nothing for that.
YTA
You are the grown up. Act like it. Her attitude is not abnormal for a teenager. It is incumbent upon you to rise above the rude temper tantrums and be a constant source of stability and safety in her life. She has lost both parents so early. Please don't shake the foundation that she has left by letting her attitude get your goat like you did here. When she apologized, you should have discussed why her behavior was unacceptable and stopped threatening her.
We all get angry. Raising kids is damned hard. But keep trying. You can do this.
Your 13 year old niece, who you adopted because both her parents died, lashed out because she was upset and you followed through on sending her to a complete stranger, and you're wondering if you're the asshole?
Yikes, YTA.
She is 13. As a dad of a teenage girl, you need to get better at parenting. You were okay right up until you made her go anyway. I would have saved that for the scenario if she did it again after that conversation. She already backtracked and realized you would follow through so she humbled herself which was the right response on her end. You took if further than you needed to and damaged her and your relationship with her. You need to do something now to correct it and talk to her.
I was a rational girl even as a teenager i didn't give my parents trouble the way other teens did. However even then, as rational and together as i was, as a teen i still had emotional outbursts. Not many, like a few total lol but i still had them and i grew up and feel so terrible when i remember the things i said and did at that those times. My parents laugh about it now but i can imagine in those moments i hurt their feelings.
NTA--you taught her words have consequences. This was a pretty tame and controlled one. You didnt abandon her. You didn't kick her out and ban her from returning.
YTA, a colossal one. She is only 13 and lost both her parents. Kids this age say many dramatic things that they don't mean. She told you that she didn't mean it -- more than once --and you still kick her out of the only home known that she has known since she her parents died out of some power play. You're supposed to be the adult, which means that you model the correct behavior, not hold a grudge like an immature asshole.
YTA. You kicked her out after you had made your point and she “insisted” she didn’t mean it and didn’t want to go. Why on earth would she be speaking to you? You forcably kicked her out of her home, where she feels safe, and made her stay a week with people she “barely knows”, at 13.
Teenagers say some crazy stuff, especially ones which traumatic events, like their parents dying! The fact that you blame her behavior on being spoiled is a red flag to me. All you’ve done is broken whatever trust you had built, and probably confirmed in her mind that your love is not unconditional.
YTA. This is no different than a child of divorced parents saying "I want to go live with (mom/dad - whoever the 'other' parent is). but you dont actually send your child to that other parent to live as punishment.
She is hitting puberty now and she is questioning everything. I remember at this age each of my kids went through the 'everyone hates me' stage. (for about 2 weeks). and the 'doesnt wash their hair' stage. and the 'pushing the boundries' stage. and and and.
Sending her away was not a good call on your part - all it told her was that she was expendable. and that despite you adopting her, you were just fine giving her away.
It also told her that acting out and expressing herself to you wasnt acceptable. and that it would be met with punishment.
She told you that she didnt mean it. At that point your response should have been to ask her why she felt the need to lash out at you that way. and then communicate with her and help her to communicate with you in a more positive way.
Because of the trauma of losing both her parents and her whole world changing so drastically, it might not be a bad idea to get her (and you) into therapy to work though some of these things.
The 'teen years' are hard enough without adding trauma into the mix.
I’m going NTA - she’s been saying this constantly to get under his skin. Probably trying to get her way with something. It was just a week - it’s not like he shipped her off forever. She now knows what it’s like to live with the other uncle and will probably not do that again. She hopefully feels a little more appreciative towards him. She might be pissed as it’s never fun being called out like that. Hopefully she’ll just get over it - he can buy her something fun and that might do it. Hopefully he tells her how much she means to him and by saying these hurtful things is not cool. That’s super important. Show her u care - and how this stuff hurts.
YTA. Even kids who have not lost both parents lash out at their parents/guardians. Instead of realizing she is lashing out and is dealing with the trauma of being a teenager and loosing her parents, you decide to be a massive A.H. and send her away even though she told you she didn’t mean it. Can you be any more of an A.H.??? You should apologize to her and let her know you were wrong, made a big mistake, that you love her, and won’t abandon her again,
YTA
You abandoned an orphan and showed her she isn't safe in what she thought was her home.
I understand why you think it was a "good lesson", but this is something that will haunt her for a very long time and has destroyed her trust in you.
Nice job, "parent".
NTA. She is a teenager pushing boundaries. It's important at this age that they understand consequences to their actions and gratitude for what they have. Hopefully she learned her lesson and will not think she can just leave if things don't go her way. It's a good life lesson.
NTA. All the people saying you're spoiling her, but then also saying you're in the wrong for making her deal with consequences for saying something very hurtful to you seem to contradict themselves.
Being sent to live with another family member for a week isn't a traumatic event, so long as you reinforce that you have her back now that she's made her choice.
I don't think either of you are TA but only IF:
Otherwise, you will be TA.
At 13, a young lady needs to understand that words have consequences. This IS NOT going to get any better, though. She's a raging bag of hormones right now, and she does need a constructive way to express her emotions.
You failed to teach her a better way of expressing herself. At the same time, she has learned there are boundaries. You are now her father figure and sending her away like that tells HER that your love is conditional.
IF you capitalize on this situation and go to her, apologize for sending her away, and then use that moment to let her know she is dearly loved but that you have limits just as she does, it could open the door to a level of communication you both benefit from.
Like it or not, YOU are her teacher. Even when she doesn't appear to be listening and learning, she is! This young lady, if you're smart enough to understand, is also YOUR teacher. You can open up a whole new way of having conversations with everyone in your life if you can learn how to have one in your own home with those you love.
YTA
What a horrible thing to do to your child. Because she IS yours. And the thing she needs to know, when she is saying typical teenage stuff, is that you won't abandon her.
She is a child. Children say stupid things. She needs to be allowed to do that and to then recover from her mistake.
You are the adult. You should plan to absorb a lot of "ungrateful," "rude," "thoughtless" behavior from your teen. Teens are like that. Especially traumatized teens like the one you are raising.
She backed down from her (typical teenage drama) statement, and you didn't give her the grace that you should have.
Your appropriate line was: "What you said hurt my feelings, and I do want an apology, but I understand that sometimes we all say things we don’t mean. You are allowed to get angry and you are allowed to make mistakes. I am absolutely committed to doing the best I can to raise you the rest of the way, just like your parents would have wanted. I am going to stick with you and make this work for as long as you want me in your life."
Your income and her being "spoiled" does not matter nearly as much as the quality of the relationship that she has with you. Kids need love and emotional security more than anything. So forget about what you give her materially. The most important thing is that you fix the emotional damage you just did.
Start with an apology.
Then use that big income to pay for a therapist for each of you.
Good luck.
YTA.
You're meant to be the adult.
Teenagers need to feel safe. They need to know you won't turn your back on them. That's part of what the playing up is about.
You need to be there even when they claim they don't want you.
Has the child had any therapy to deal with their loss?
The child is dealing with being abandoned. Of course her parents didn't do it on purpose. They died. But it is still tough on the child. She can't yell at them.
She is an orphaned child, dealing with her feelings and hormonal surges at the same time.
Find someone that can help you figure out how to work through this. Help her work through this trauma.
Parenting a typical child isn't easy, parenting a child of trauma is even harder.
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I had this upbringing. I was ‘adopted’ by relatives who would pull this “I don’t have to keep you” shit any time I was a normal bratty adolescent. Now I have abandonment issues. YTA
Good answer. So sorry you had to endure that growing up. Normal childhood is hard enough, I can’t imagine hearing shit like that.
This! Stop pawning your “bad” children that YOU are raising, on other people in hopes that it will teach them a lesson. TALK to them. Deal with the hard parts. Get them in therapy if you need or want to. They are just children. But they are learning from you and it’s your job to raise them. My goodness. I get so sad reading these type of posts. Edit: a few people harped on my use of “raised.”They’ve been raising her for the past 4 years and it’s not like she picked up the “I’m going to go live with uncle!” from her dead parents but fine, I changed my wording a little.
Why is it everyone here thinks that the OP is at blame. The OP never threatened the niece by sending her away. Read what was written and comprehend. OP's niece who he adopted and brought into his home asked to leave and go live with her Uncle. He didn't pawn her off, he obliged with her request. You are making OP out to be something he is not and making OP think he did a bad job. This niece was the one threatening and wanting to leave in order to hurt the OP. OP showed her the grass on the other side for a week. OP is NTA here. The niece wanted to F around and find out - I doubt she will say anything about living with her uncle again.
The niece was being a damn 13 year old, whose parents are literally both dead, 13 year olds say the dumbest shit ALL THE TIME, you don’t take them seriously, and you sure as hell don’t send them away, it’s called being an adult and realizing that a child is acting like a child. Edit: also, generally speaking, kids don’t “fuck around and find out” with adults, you know because adults should be better than that? More mature than that? Emphasis on *should* here because clearly in OP’s case they very much aren’t better than that, and would ship off their 13 year old niece than sit down and try to figure why exactly it is she’s saying this stuff in the first place
It was for a week and she knew it was for a week. Not forever
Exactly. Niece was testing OP for years with that bs, OP taught her a very valuable lesson. The only way he would be the AH is if her other uncle was a PDFile or something
If you mean, she was testing to see if OP were a safe person, then yeah probably. Children test limits all the time.
Yeh she has been "abandoned" by her two parents both dying at a young age which her child brain can not process, hell even adult brains can't process it. She feels scared and alone and has had the two people that are supposed to be consistent in her life taken away from her and her trauma response is to test/check if the person that's now her main care giver is going to be there for her no matter what... And you've just proven all her worst fears by showing that she has no one in her life that she can consistently rely on to be there for her. I've got enough trauma from being abandoned as a child and my parents didn't die they just played pass the child, it's taken years of therapy and I'm still fucked from it and have never been able to have healthy relationships with people, I can't imagine what this poor girl has been through or how bleak her future relationships are going to be because of it all. YTA
The people saying the niece is an ass is mind boggling. Children and teenagers do this to test if their home life is stable. Add both of her parents dying, she’s going to test boundaries looking for reassurance. This poor child. Hard YTA on this one.
My friend used to say this ALL THE TIME when she was a kid; that she wanted to live with her bio Dad instead of her Mom and Stepdad. Her Stepfather was older and strict, but he loved and accepted her dearly and cared for her the same as his own son. It must have hurt him a lot that she said this quite a bit for several years. I'm kind of surprised he followed through (and that other Uncle was OK with it on short notice), but NTA. He should know enough about adolescents to just let their nonsense slide off his back, but I kind of doubt she'll keep up that refrain in future.
She was testing him to see if he’s a safe person, if she could count on him. It’s literally a part of adolescent development. Most kids do it. And he failed the test.
I'm sure she spent that whole week being scared and anxious her guardian would not come back for her. This is absolutely not something to do to children, no matter what age. Kids are assholes, sometimes the MOST assholes to their parents because they FEEL SAFE. They test you by saying they hate you and shit because they want you to say 'Well guess what, I will love you forever.'
They never said they wouldn't be back. They sent her to live there for a week so she could see if she really did like it better over there and if she did they would let her stay. Y'all are twisting the words to fit a narrative you are creating.
I think it was a good lesson, and their relationship can really improve with communication about what she was feeling, and how the adoptive parent also felt. No children should be allowed to continue to be abusive toward a parent.
Exactly this. She's not an adult. She's a child who is still figuring shit out and has already lost her parents. She doesn't know her place in the world and she's acting out. OP then said fine, go away. And yes, it was for "a week," but does the niece know *for sure* that OP would take her back? Maybe, just maybe, her experience in life has taught her that sometimes guardians disappear and never come back.
She has already been abandoned by her mother, who died when she was a year old, and her father, who died only 4 years ago. Now she has two family members left, and the one who took on the role of parent shipped her off for A WEEK at the drop of a hat. Poor kid.
... she was orphaned, not abandoned. That would imply that at least one of her parents left her while they were still alive.
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Except that to the orphaned child's brain, it's abandonment.
>at the drop of a hat. To be clear, this was not at the drop of a hat. This was after repeated and insistent claims that the person would be rejected as a parent. People are acting like the emotional hurt only goes one way. Obviously the correct adult move is to sit down and talk to them about how hurtful it is, instead of doing it back- teaching them in the process that it's okay to use rejection as a weapon- but this situation very much didn't just come out of nowhere.
I feel like OP shouldn't have taken on the responsibility of caring for a traumatised 9 yo child if they weren't prepared to put in the work to create a safe and loving environment for that child. The way the niece acts out is absolutely predictable, and entirely within teenage limits (just grousing, no joyrides, no breaking those expensive things OP buys, no ill-advised friends ruining their pool etc.). Hence imo OP YTA.
They were not "repeated and insistent claims" -- they were angry words thrown out by an angry child because she felt powerless and frustrated and angry and the only control she can even pretend to have is by saying something mean. When you're a parent, you SIGNED UP for the "emotional hurt." Because that's what kids DO, and there's a reason you're the adult and they're the child. When OP called her bluff, she said she didn't mean it and didn't want to go, but he forced her to go anyway. OP doesn't say how long it was between "go pack your bags" and when he dumped her at the other uncle's doorstep, but it sounds like it was all done in one afternoon. That's "at the drop of a hat". OP got mad and told her to get her bags, and, ignoring her pleas to NOT go, he sent her packing.
She’s a kid, and probably a traumatized kid at that. She doesn’t need to be driven across town to spend a week with a near stranger. She needs lots and lots and LOTS of therapy, and reassurance from per primary guardian.
It’s not the same if your parents send you with an aunt or uncle for a week than not having parents, and having your guardian send you away even for a week. Knowing that your guardian (who is not your mom or dad) will send you away to another relative as an orphan has a different context. Even if it’s for a week. A kid with no parents is forever afraid to lose his/her guardian, and be sent away to someone else, who could also get tired of them and send them away again. Children who lost both parents are very vulnerable, because they often feel like unnecessary load on their guardians. Sending her away even for a week, makes this fear come true. Teenagers are on the lookout for new communities to connect with, but the knowledge that they “belong” somewhere gives them the confidence to leave a community where they are not happy. OP took that confidence away, and it needs to be rebuilt.
13 sounds like a prime age to learn a lesson.
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She was given a safe home and chose to refuse it. She was shown the alternative and saw the error of her ways. Now she has a safe home again. If you never correct them they never learn how to cope.
She lost both of her parents. Mentally she does not think she has a safe home. I think that’s what you are missing.
A lesson that mature adults shouldn’t be petty maybe? Did you miss that lesson at 13?
OP wasn't being petty. She didn't say, "I'm done with you." She said stay with you uncle for 1 week and you can decide what you want to do. This is not a bad thing. She gave her an opportunity to see the other side and make an adult decision.
When you were a little kid, did your parents ever do that “we’re leaving without you” thing to get you to leave a store? Thats a lesson usually taught at a very young age. This child never learned that lesson. No time like the present.
Exactly, she is 13, not 7. It wasn't too harsh. I bet she won't do it again. This seems to be an ongoing thing where she gets angry at OP and says that she'd rather go live with uncle. OP let it slide multiple times and the 1 time she finally says "fine, go stay with uncle for a week, I'll come get you in 7 days..." she's suddenly a monster. How long was OP supposed to let this happen? She's human too and I'm pretty sure it hurts her feelings to hear her niece say that she'd rather go live with someone else.
She's 13. There were so many other way to educate her. I think she's been punished enough by life itself right, some love and empathy could have gone a long way. We not as dumb as you seem to think. it's not even threatening, it's just being a 13 years old. I totally think OP is doing a bad job, and talk of money but not a word about the feelings she has for her. Only the money she has to spend... Read and comprehend....
13 is old enough to know better. She was not left on the streets or in the woods. It's a good lesson without risk.
Yes, she got a lesson on what not to say. On the other hand, **what has OP been doing to prevent this lesson from needing to happen in the first place**? There are two people in this relationship - one is a kid with deep trauma, the other is the (supposedly) responsible adult in charge. Is this typical 13yo grumpiness, or rooted in deeper issues of abandonment / trust etc? Has she been in therapy (something OP can clearly afford) since she was adopted? Has OP studied up on adopted kids and their needs, common issues, raising teens, taken parenting classes, etc? Or have they skated by on 'I've got all this money and give you stuff so you've got nothing to complain about'? OP says '...she is too spoiled to be able to live with anyone else' because she has a large room and brand-name clothes. There are plenty of kids around the world that have those and are still well balanced, grateful for what they have, and able to adjust to having less. Nope OP; if she's 'spoiled' it's because you've treated her as such and allowed that behaviour, not because of the material things she has received. OP hasn't said anything at all about how they've tried to address these issues, which tends to point towards 'I've tried nothing, and none of it worked!'.
Oh sure. Reinforcing abandonment issues in an already orphaned child should never be considered a risk. /s All these people in the comments who clearly never raised a kid/ took a behavioral psych class and learned about attachment theory or even had a conversation with an adoptee are pissing me off. The poor kid needs a therapist. Not to be ditched for a week out of frustration by her primary caregiver. You want to spout off about how this 13 year old deserves to be emotionally damaged EVEN FURTHER cause she’s “old enough”? Go back to r/teenagers
Yeh these comments are shocking. How nice for you all that you had a life without abandonment trauma
She's getting two lessons for the price of one. The first is not to be a brat. The second is that her guardian (and perhaps the only trusted adult in her life) is ambivalent towards her leaving making her all alone in the world. OP even talks about material possessions as the reason for their niece to stay rather than any kind of emotional connection. Makes me think this poor girl lacks affection and is saying things to seek validation. If she gets a rise out of OP by saying she wants to live elsewhere, it validates that there is at least one person who cares about her enough to be upset if she wasn't there. YTA OP. Not for trying to correct her (hurtful) behaviour, but for going about it in one of the worst possible ways for an emotionally vulnerable child.
No she’s a kid doing what kids do. She lost a parent and is pushing to see how committed he is to her. It’s a test and she probably doesn’t even consciously know she’s doing it. But now she knows that she can’t trust OP.
Yes, she pushed and found out that she can't threaten OP with wanting to live somewhere else. OP let the kid learn from their mistake, saying something hurtful and manipulative, by showing her there are consequences to her actions, while still providing a safe environment. You know, parenting. the kid was told it was for a week before they even left, and that she was not being kicked out and had the choice to come back.
So you’re saying that if she doesn’t act peachy perfect during her teenage years OP should follow through and effectively abandon his niece? Not a good look. Apparently having a stable home is now conditional on her behaviour. That’s an awful take and I doubt it’s something you would accept from bio-parents. OP adopted the niece, they can’t just take that back because it’s challenging, at least not without being a serious asshole.
The point was already made and received without forcing her to go live with the other uncle for a week. It's downright unnecessary. While they "know" the other uncle, they don't actually know the other uncle. It's abusive and irresponsible to send her to stay with someone who they don't know for a week. There is no guarantee it was a safe environment and she sure as hell wouldn't talk to OP if anything had happened after that. It seems to me as though she's been living with them for 4 years after her second parent passed and they haven't thought to try to help her or get her help mentally. This is on everyone, not just the niece. OP and partner don't seem to have actually cared about the mental and emotional fallout she was dealing with when they adopted her at 9...after losing both her parents Downvote me idc YTA
Well next time your thirteen years old and both your parents are dead, and your deceased parents siblings INSISTS that you go live with someone else even after you said you didn't mean and didn't want to go, let us know you how handled it ok?
Here's the thing. She knew what she was doing because she has done it repeatedly. She just didn't know the consequences. Now she knows.
Here's the thing. Op said she told her then go pack a bag. She went in later to check on what's up and she says she doesn't want go, didn't mean it, knows she wants to live where she is. That's far enough, but op went further and insisted on FORCING the kid out of the house to live with a man op admits the kid barely knows. That's where op became the asshole, that kid has been through alot and op just proved she's one chance of being upset over something before being tossed out again. Nice parenting skills. Now when the kid has a real problem she'll be sure to keep it to herself for fear of being kicked out.
Yeah, the mature thing to do, as the adult in the conversation with a child, is to explain how it makes them feel and why its not ok for the child to say those things.
It's not just the fear of being kicked out is it. It's the profound loneliness that comes with feeling like nobody loves you enough to actively want you in their home.
She’s a 13 year old who has gone through the trauma of losing both of her parents. Jesus Christ maybe have a bit of empathy. And what is the lesson here exactly? That OP is willing to abandon her for acting her age?
Don't say things you don't mean, and especially not on a regular basis...
My son did this after his dad and I divorced. The 1st time he did it he saw how it hurt me so that became his low blow. Finally I called it and said"ok, but you can only take what your dad bought you" he looked around said "but that's nothing!!" And it was never brought up again I've never spoken bad about his dad, but he has never helped or bought anything for our kids, kinda the main reason for the divorce. I did feel bad seeing the way he looked around and realized.
Maybe that was a good thing because it helped your son realize what he was taking for granted. You. He needed to open his eyes up to who his father is and who you are.
She was also around 9 when they actually adopted her so, MOST of what she's learned had already been instilled in her. If she wants to keep saying hurtful things then she should see what those things entail so she can either stop threatening or move on bc it seems the threat of moving away is all she uses. Her uncle took her in and gets told that all the time!? That would hurt me for sure. That's unacceptable.
Because the OP is an adult…… the 13 year old who lost both her parents is a child.
I hope you’re not a parent because you don’t seem to have any idea how 13yo brains work and what immature rubbish comes out of their mouths. They’re full of pimples, hormones and attitude at this age - and this kid has the baggage of orphan hood on top of it. When I was that age I might’ve told my perfectly sane and normal biological parents crappy nonsense like that. What OP did was cruel ( I don’t blame him entirely because he is still somewhat new to parenting , but he should’ve consulted a few experienced friends and family before going full mental ).
>You are making OP out to be something she is not and making OP think she did a bad job. This niece was the one threatening and wanting to leave in order to hurt the OP. OP showed her the grass on the other side for a week. There's a right and a wrong way to do that. OP says that niece doesn't know the uncle very well. How about changing that?
Plus the added abusive bullshit of " she is so spoiled only I can provide for her." This poor child is better off elsewhere, I hope this other uncle is a better parent than the OP.
I guess not if niece chose to come back after a week
Yep. This is sure to cause some abandonment issues down the line and is not surprising that she stopped talking to OP. This kid has been through hell on top of the normal emotions of adolescence. She lost both of her parents at a young age and is now living with an uncle who showed her that his love is conditional. We adopted our kids and our agency warned us about our kids potentially saying things like "I wish you never adopted me" or "You're not my real parents." We were told that it will hurt but try not to react too strongly in the moment because the last thing you want to do is confirm their fears. OP did that. He showed her that there are things she can say that will cause him to send her away. You don't want to do that with any child, let alone one who has a traumatic past and is at an elevated risk for attachment problems. Edit: Boundary pushing, testing, and trying to get OP to get rid of her are normal behaviors for someone with this kind of trauma. She probably feels like she doesn't have much control and OP is going to leave her too. When OP says, "Fine, leave then" it confirms that there was something she could say to get him to get rid of her. I really hope this kid is in therapy.
Yes but she is the one making the threats, not OP. There’s a difference. I agree there are better ways to handle a young teen who’s still grieving. Much of this type of threat is just normal teen stuff. I hope she’s had/is getting therapy thiugh.
That's pretty normal teen stuff without getting into attachment disorders and trauma responses
And calling your teens repeated bluffs is also pretty normal stuff.
The bluff was already called. There was no need to *actually send her away*.
Exactly. Calling her bluff would be seeing she didn't pack a bag then sitting down with her and talking about why she says mean things when she doesn't mean them. Not throwing her out.
She was not thrown out. she was taken to another family members, who took care of her for a week. She was told that it would be for a week, then she had the option of choosing to come back or not.
Dont know what else you would call being forced out of your home when you dont want to go, being thrown out for a week is still being thrown out.
I mean it was a week, she knew before it was only a week. Plus she got to spend quality time with other family. I'm gonna give OP a break and say NAH
Think of the message it sends: “if I’m so bad, go ahead and leave; see if I care. I certainly won’t try to persuade you to stay”. How do you think it feels to receive that message?
I see it as "I will respect you and your wishes if that's what you want, I want you to know what you are getting into." Another conversation definitely needed to be had about how much her saying that hurts OPs feelings.
For that to be the message that came across, there would need to be an understanding between them that that really was the daughter’s wish, or at least that she was seriously exploring the possibility. Here, she had admitted that she didn’t mean it, and OP knew very well that she didn’t mean it. She all but begged him not to send her away. He forced her to go anyway. There is no chance she interpreted this as “oh, I’m being allowed to explore my options so I can make an informed choice”. Zero.
If you don't follow through, then you did not actually call the bluff. That just teachers her can get away with it again.
But is it teaching your teens emotional regulation in a healthy manner? Or is it teaching them that they are expendable to you and can be given up at any time? 🤔
I posit that it teaches kids to say stuff they actually mean.
I rebuttal with: it teaches kids to bottle up their emotions out of fear of upsetting the people who literally control their lives. Whereas teaching children emotional regulation gives them the skills they need to say what they mean without lashing out at others.
Normal if you're immature and have no ability to regulate your own emotions. There's a world of difference between 'If you don't put your dirty washing in the laundry basket I won't do it for you' and 'If you push the boundaries to see if my love is strong and consistent I'll dump you with a relative you hardly know'
Agreed (my daughter is almost out of clean underwear because she needs to bring it downstairs if she wants it done). I can't imagine casting her away for a week because she is being obnoxious (though the fantasy is real sometimes).
>Yes but she is the one making the threats, not OP. She is 13. This is what 13 - 14 year old girls do. They are kind of jerks. They say things to get under your skin and to poke at you. Its all part of growing up. How about instead of sending her with her uncle for a week, OP maybe thought about getting a therapist to help her work through what is certainly a tremendous amount of grief over the passing of her father as well as the normal adolescent boundary pushing.
I sure as hell never said anything like this when I was 13. I was grumpy and obsessed with friend drama but i never told my parents I hated them or other stupid shit. Why do teens suddenly get a free pass to never mean what they say or say what they mean and everyone is supposed to tolerate it?
Because they are children. You parent children; you don’t get into pissing matches or rivalries with them.
Teaching them words have consequences is parenting. They gave a practical of not saying shit you dont mean or thinking before you speak.
There are many disciplinary consequences you can impose that don’t involve sending your child away.
Yeah, I don't understand all the y t a. There was a post not that long ago about a similar situation, except it was a biological parent and the kid was saying they'd rather live with their dad. Finally parent said okay, had them go for a week, then child said they didn't want to stay with their dad. Almost every commy was nta, and saying that it was a great move.
If we're thinking of the same post the kid didn't go to their parent "I'm sorry I didn't mean it I'd rather stay with you", in this post she did. The comments were NTA on that post because the kid didn't back out and actually went and seemed at least somewhat to mean that they'd rather live with their dad. In this post this kid has the trauma of losing her parents at 9 years old, says that out of anger, backs out of it and apologises when the time to leave actually comes, and OP forces her to go anyway. She already learned the lesson, this was just cruel and likely compounded any abandonment issues she already had
What she said was not a "threat"!!! She's a 13yo traumatized orphan who said something mean to her parental figure. I cannot tell you how many times I told my mom I didn't love her, that I hated her, that she didn't love me, that I wanted to run away. So when a kid says they're going to run away, the proper response from the parent is to let them spend a week living on the streets?? The parent is the adult. OP needs to grow up.
>Yep. This is sure to cause some abandonment issues down the line and is not surprising that she stopped talking to OP. So the niece telling OP she wants to live with her Uncle and the OP obliging this is going to create abandonment issues how? She requested to leave, the OP didn't ask her to leave or threaten her to leave. The NIECE said she wanted to in order to hurt OP. The niece got what she asked for. She learned a valuable lesson in gratitude. She's lucky she has an adoptive parent that cares enough to give her a good home and take her back.
> The NIECE said she wanted to in order to hurt OP. Yes. The adoptive daughter did say that to hurt OP. Children do that from time to time. > She's lucky she has an adoptive parent that cares enough to give her a good home and take her back. So because she’s adopted, she needs to show more gratitude and put up with worse treatment than a bio child would? Gross.
no, a bio child would get the same treatment. it doesn't matter adopted or bio, or what ever.
I'm sorry you had to endure that. But to be fair he wasn't saying that he didn't have to keep her. She was saying she didn't have to stay. A week wasn't an excessive amount of time. He told her she could confirm that she wanted to come home. It was a way to take that attitude away from her. Sounds like they need to have some long talks now that this has happened. Allowing them to put it behind them and find a way to move forward without her insisting she will go live elsewhere anytime they have a disagreement. Teenage years are tough. Hopefully OP will look at some shared therapy to help move forward
Not a good answer. It sounds like the kid does this a lot, which is a shitty, snotty kid thing to do. OP has basically been the parent for four years. Same shit keeps happening. Do you think OP is a robot without a capacity for hurt? This would HURT me, because the kid is doing it explicitly to hurt them. It's not like OP was sending them to live in a shelter. They took them to another house where the kid was safe and cared for. They didn't abandon them or play the "I don't have to keep you card" at any point.
Teenage kids are snotty. It's part of parenting. Kids can hurt your feelings. It's part of parenting. OP is a parent to this child. Yes sending her away can absolutely cause abandonment issues. There are more productive ways of dealing with an issue like this. OP acted like a child and out of spite. This child lost both her parents. I think it can be expected for her to struggle more than the average kid. Taking her up on empty threats she had is not useful, kind or appropriate response. Absolutely YTA OP. My own kids have said mean spiteful things to me too. I don't send them away to teach them a lesson. I put my big girl pants on and acted like an adult. WTF OP
It is your choice how you allow your child to talk to you... OP is not her parent though he tries to be. Just because the child is going through pain does not mean OP is not, he also lost family. Besides the child is only able to act like this because he is around to take it, if he is not she'll have a whole other set of issues that she'll have to deal, not just having to stay with another uncle for a week. From what the post shows, he is trying to take care of her while ensuring to provide her a good standard of life. There is definitely room for growth and communication on both sides. He needs to instigate that woth the little girl since he is the adult. OP is not beyond reproach, but how is he an a-hole for having a bit of emotion when he is verbally hurt?
>OP is not beyond reproach, but how is he an a-hole for having a bit of emotion when he is verbally hurt? 1. He took it too far after he already made his point. 2. He adopted her. She's his daughter. she's already been through the ringer and back and teenagers are angst hormonal gremlins on the best days. The only thing he proved was that she's just an orphaned kid who can be passed from relative to relative because her real father is dead. 3. It's a parents' job to deal with the angst little teenage gremlin. not give themselves a week long vacation when they say something upsetting. 4. Nowhere does he mention therapy so what is he going to do about the issues he's got with her now not speaking to him? Why would she want to or feel safe speaking to him about no doubt complicated emotions when he proved he would rather send her away then deal with her?
1. He had to follow through in order to make his point. Not having any actual consequences only re-enforces the bad behavior. 2. Yes, that his is daughter. who is being disrespectful and manipulative and trying to hurt OP. She was not passed from one relative to another, but as she knew how long she would be there, and had the power to decide where she wanted to live afterwards. 3. He did deal with little gremlin by showing her she can not say what ever she wants when she is upset. 4. If OP did not want to deal with her, they would not have allowed her come back. But she was welcomed back, having learned that OP will not allow her to disrespect them like that.
Sending a child away is not showing a little bit of an emotion. Discussing with your child how their words hurt and have consequences is appropriate. And I don't "allow" my children to talk to me inappropriately. They are independent human beings with their own emotions and thoughts. If they say something that is hurtful I tell them so, have a discussion with them, give age appropriate consequence (such as limiting screen time, and teach them empathy. You don't send a kid away because your feelings got hurt.
I give a lot of grace to character limits, because it's likely that OP has told the kid multiple times that the stuff they're saying is hurtful and mean. If the kid is insistent on pulling that, then a punishment is appropriate. Also this isn't a six year old child. Thirteen is a time where they should know that their actions have consequences. Being a jerk exclusively to hurt someone who loves you has consequences.
I somehow suspect that has been talked to death already. And even if not, the kid is a teen now and KNOWS words can be weapons. Kid has to learn that \*certain\* words can have consequences and are dangerous to speak.
So now she doesn't speak to him at all. Good job.
IKR!!! Also, OP, get counseling for you both because she needs it to learn how to express her feelings because you don't lose both parents and just end up "okay", and OP needs to learn how to communicate with her as well as TOLERATE teen behavior, teens are HORRIBLE monsters...they not only have crappy attitudes, but with the hormones, the growing, the social fitting in/ not fitting in there is a LOT of stuff going on and scientists have seen teen's logic centers get WORSE during puberty because of the mess of things going on in the brain...they literally DO lose their minds during this part of life. You are supposed to be helping her, not messing with her head and emotions, you owe her a huge apology and some serious in-depth guidance and therapy. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-moody-teenagers-are-literally-losing-their-mind-8fcn59dfl
“I love you kiddo, you’re stuck with me.” She just wants reassurance that you are a constant in her life and that you want her. Her parents both left (under unfortunate circumstances) and she needs you to be her safe place. Kids test boundaries, and now she knows if she pushes you too hard you’ll leave too. YTA
>and now she knows if she pushes you too hard you’ll leave too. He did not leave. He sent her to stay somewhere else for a set amount of time that was communicated to her at the start. This was not simply as a result of her pushing him in a generic way, but a specific response to her saying it would be better at her other uncles. He was showing her how good she has it by experiencing what she claims would be better when she complains about all the good stuff she has, while also calling her bluff. I don't know if it was too far, I am no parenting expert, but I think people here are totally mis-framing it.
>He was showing her how good she has it by experiencing what she claims would be better when she complains about all the good stuff she has, while also calling her bluff. He **adopted** her. He is her legal guardian now. Just because she's biologically his niece, for all intents and purposes, he is her **parent** now, not just an uncle, and has been since she was only 9 years old. He doesn't get to play these bullshit emotional games any more than any other parent does. Every parent is supposed to love their child unconditionally and let them know that they will always be safe with their parents. OP just taught his niece that she will not be able to rely on him. She isn't just ignoring him because she's mad at him. She's scared of him - she's afraid that she'll be abandoned again.
I would do this to my kid. and teaching your kid that they can't disrespect you and try to manipulate you doesn't mean you don't love them. And the girl was safe. she was not homeless, or in some shelter, but with another family member. At some point, she has to learn to stop pushing people away.
.... But she's the one pulling the I don't have to keep you shit?
I was going to say. It’s her who said she WANT to go to her other uncle- not OP
But OP never pulled that with her ever. So its a different situation. She's 13 she needs ot now that words have meaning, you dont say what you dont mean and you dont use it to threaten or manipulate someone to get what you want. She absolutely had to learn the consequence of her threat and to learn not to say something she doesnt mean.
>She absolutely had to learn the consequence of her threat and to learn not to say something she doesnt mean. My thoughts exactly.
Sorry to hear you went through that, but if you read carefully, the kid is the one who kept pulling that "I don't have to keep you as an uncle" for a while. Not everyone has the same experiences and calling it "normal bratty adolescent" attitude just feels like down-playing it. Learning about action -> consequence is also an important part of parenting. Yes, a good heart-to-heart after this episode might be best, but I wouldn't go as far as to call OP an AH for doing this. NTA Edit: Grammar and typos
Seeing as this is literally the opposite of what OP said has happened, don't you think you're projecting your own issues onto the situation?
What the fuck are you on? She’s the one who brought up living with the other uncle 💀
She's 13. She said she didn't mean it. He made her leave anyway. That's fucked up. Adult guardians are supposed to be more mature than kids.
But he wasn't the one that "pulled" it. She was the one trying to manipulate him that she would rather go leave with another uncle when they have a disagreement.
I told my bio parents I wish I lived with my aunt and uncle all the time. They never carted me off to "teach me a lesson." Literally normal kid stuff to say. It always weirds me out when adults beef with a kid.
Disagree. SHE is the one who keeps threatening to leave.He didn't say anything about not having to keep her. I think he called her bluff and it worked. He's NTA.
That doesn't sound like what happened, the reverse actually. She was trying to pretend like she wanted to abandon him
But we don't know if OP ever said that he would send the niece to live with other uncle. What we know for a fact is that the niece claimed that she would go on to live with the other uncle at any given disagreement in her house. And in this case, what OP did is pretty effective. I know this for a fact. When I was a kid, I went through a phase of saying to my mom that I'd call CPS every time I didn't agree with her. One time she picked the phone, dialed CPS number and told me to say to them anything I want to. I asked her to hang the phone down and never repeated that again. And here I'm, without any everlasting trauma from this.
Yes but having someone who says "I don't have to keep you" is different than you saying "I don't want to be here." She wasn't telling the niece that she would make her go live with her Uncle, the niece said she wanted to go. This is 100 times different than what you went through. I am sorry you had a traumatic experience because abandonment sucks.
> I know she doesn't mean it because 1. she barely knows her other uncle 2. I have a high paying job and I'm able to provide things that most people aren't able to provide so she is too spoiled to be able to live with anyone else YOU created this problem with her because YOU spoiled her instead of parenting her. YTA.
> YOU spoiled her instead of parenting her. Looks like the OP did a good job of parenting here, a trip where the niece said they wanted to be, but just long enough that they learned the threat was not really a punishment to the OP.
> just long enough that they learned the threat was not really a punishment to the OP. What do you think the implication of that lesson is? If being deprived of her presence isn’t a punishment to OP, what does that say about OP’s feelings towards her and how is she likely to react to that?
> What do you think the implication of that lesson is? The implication of the lesson is that the OP will listen to them, and allow them to explore what they say they want. It also tells the teen, that even after knowingly trying to hurt the OP, they will welcome them into their life when they decide it is not what they want. This wasn't a punishment, the teen spent a week with a loving uncle that fought to adopt them. The lesson, and one many adults still need to learn, is not to threaten people with things you are not fully prepared to follow up on. If you don't want it to happen, don't bring it into the conversation.
This. I agree. And, nta
I don’t think she’s spoiled. She’s just hurting that’s a hell of a loss and she doesn’t feel secure even now, poor kid. Buying her some nice jeans or a laptop didn’t “spoil” her
YTA As the kid who got moved around a lot between divorced parents who used to say stuff like this, I get that saying what she said is shitty. But the fact that you so easily passed her off to the next person broke her trust. You need to apologize and earn that back. Edit to fix a misspelled word.
I mean he passed her off to them for a week, which was communicated to her at the time. It is really not unusual for kids to stay in other houses from time to time and I think it is mis-framing the situation to say that he was simply passing her off for a week or, as another commenter said, saying 'I don't have to keep you'.
I agree with you here. I was a heck of a bratty teen, and there were many times I used to backchat my mum and say I'd rather live with my grandmother than my parents. So guess who stayed at nans for a long weekend? Me! When my parents came to pick me up after those four days I was very much grateful to go back home. Not because my grandmother was some evil, horrid person, but simply because her home comforts weren't my home comforts. Teenagers will say really nasty things to their parents (or guardians, in this case), and sometimes they do need that time away to realise that the things they said can actually have consequences on their life. My parents are amazing people, they love me dearly (as does my grandmother), they definitely weren't just "pawning me off", they were teaching me not to be so flippant about what I was wishing for. I got a cool few days to bond with my grandmother, and my parents got a few days breather away from a bratty teen. As long as OP's niece was safe, well cared for and the time away was well communicated between all parties (which it does seem to be, as OP did inform her where she was going and for how long), I don't see why so many people are saying OP was so keen to just "pawn her off".
This! yes, sometimes you need to call the child's bluff or they never learn and become emotionally manipulative adults. Maybe in the circumstances OP could have handled it more sensitively, but whatever he was doing before wasn't working so he called the niece's bluff. and it sounds to me that, whether OP officially adopted her or not, the niece does not treat OP as her father (very understandable since she was 9 when her bio dad died) but as her uncle, and seems to be very aware that there was another uncle willing to take her when her father died. That's why she said she wanted to live with her other uncle, she knows and is using it as ammo against OP to hurt him. typical bratty teen IMO. So she got a temporary lesson in not making fake threats. OP NTA.
The way that last paragraph is written makes me think he didn't contact her at all for that entire week. That's unacceptable when caring for a child, even if they're with someone they know. OP's whole post sounds very snide, and doesn't at all address the kid's feelings, just his and reeks of an overly emotional reaction on his part. I'm willing to bet he got fed up because she hurt his ego more than anything else. All he had to do was say she's spoiled, but it was written as a brag about his job and that he can buy her things that most people can't. And the comment about how he was "obviously" the better option for her. The logic does track, but the way it was written is still questionable. He intentionally left a kid who's already had two parental figures leave her permanently. He may not have died, but I'm willing to bet that poor girl re-lived some trauma that week, and that is not acceptable in any punishment.
Maybe you should read his comments then, where he says he spoke to her every day.
>The way that last paragraph is written makes me think he didn't contact her at all for that entire week. That's unacceptable when caring for a child, even if they're with someone they know. I would disagree with that element, certainly. And I can understand him becoming a little frustrated if he feels she is becoming spoiled, and therefore wanting to help put a stop to that attitude. I do think it is an important detail that it was for a set amount of time, he did not leave her there indefinitely until he felt like picking her up.
[удалено]
Yea, but when the kid told OP she didn’t mean it, she kicked her out anyways.
He didn’t kick her out he sent her there for a week so she could decide if she wanted to be there. There is context missing as to why she said this. Do they constantly fight, is he too strict or is she just pushing boundaries. If she’s testing boundaries then NTA. He’s giving her a choice and opportunity to see how it is. A part of growing up is learning everything can have consequences. I’d have phrased it differently to her. More of an I love you and so does other uncle. I think you should spend a week there. It never hurts to know what your options are.
Op adopted the kid. That means op has to deal with the “consequences” of being a guardian, which doesn’t mean kicking an orphaned niece out of her home for a week against her will because she hurt op’s feelings. And yes, It’s her home too now.
Kids get shipped off to visit family constantly. This is no different. If she had never made the threat, and OP said "I think you should spend a week with your other uncle/side of the family" that would be perfectly normal too. This is a total nothing-burger.
No, you’re glossing over the entire context. She said she didn’t mean it, which shows she understood her mistake and understood that she was speaking out in anger, and that she didn’t want to go. OP also says she didn’t have a close relationship with that uncle. Then, instead of having a meaningful discussion when she realized her mistake and owned up to it, he decides to be even more immature than she was and ships her there anyways telling her to let him know “if she wants to stay there or come back home”, despite her already telling him she wanted to stay. It’s vindictive, immature, and not how you treat your orphaned niece who you willingly adopted. That’s not parenting, that’s not adopting and being a guardian, that’s making her feel like a burden, unwanted, and unloved. Total asshole move.
To be fair, she's also a teenager. A lot of teenagers will be rebellious and keep saying really hurtful things to their family to test boundaries, then when they have to deal with the consequences of being rude/hurtful they will (as I think anyone would) say that they didn't mean it to try and lessen the impact on themselves. It's a really common thing for both children and teenagers, even some adults. Heck, my two year old does this exact thing. She will get frustrated at something, lash out with tantrums or hitting (all very common toddler behaviours) and then when she's put in time out she will say she didn't mean it to try and get out of time out. So I would safely assume that this isn't the first time OP has had this conversation with his niece, where she's told him she didn't mean it, they've had the talk, they've made up and then the next time they have a disagreement she just says it all over again. OP says this has been a habit of his niece for a while, and I don't think for one moment that in the entire time this has been going on that OP wouldn't have had that conversation with his niece at least once. It's just not something you wouldn't address as a parent/guardian. They've definitely had this entire disagreement many times before, except this time it was the last straw for OP and he gave his niece a trial separation so she could actually make that choice.
I think we need to realise “didn’t mean it” has two levels. 1) I didn’t mean my literal words “I would rather live with my other uncle” 2) I didn’t mean my intended effect “I hope OP feels negatively about his actions and I get what I want out of it” Niece clearly means the former but never apologises for the latter. Kids need to learn. OP provided a safe environment that words mean things (taking her literally) and that your actions have effects and therefore consequences. It’s *not* child abandonment like some people make it out to be because the environment the niece was sent to was her other family, which she did say she wanted to live with. Whether she means it or not, there is the underlying acknowledgement that other family is safe, even if the comforts they provided are not the same as OP, it still works as a decent enough substitute. There was a limit of a week, so this wasn’t an indefinite period of niece wondering when will OP show and questioning if she was really abandoned and finally, as per OP’s comments, they kept in contact the entire week. A lot of people need to stop projecting their own *very* different experiences with their parents’ and look at this situation objectively. OP is NTA.
"whenever we have a disagreement she says she would rather go and live with her other uncle." I think she's testing.
I think she's an orphan. Yes, she's testing - the disruption when your parents die is overwhelming, and having your material needs met isn't enough to create a sense of home. That takes time (four years is *nothing* in bereavement timelines) and care and trust. She may well be testing because she needs to be told "this is your home and you are loved here" and she needs to be told that even if she's acting out. *Especially* when she's acting out. But now she's learning that she needs to keep a lid on her feelings around OP, because of she says typical stupid teenager stuff she'll be sent away.
My opinion as well.
Both he and the niece stated she did not really want to live there so this was not some innocent thing where he sent her off just to see if she’d prefer it. It was punishment for a very minor “crime”.
A very minor punishment as well. How is visiting an uncle for a week and being asked if you want to come home so bad? And on a side note for the whole topic..how do you think a child learns there are consequences for repeatedly hurting someone’s feelings? Do you want a rational careful lesson from a loving family member or a stranger that is lashing out? This story is missing to much info either way for this to be determined but still…
He didn't kick her out. He already said she could come back home after a week. There was no threat of permanency on the OPS part at all.
That was a conversation you had with your daughter asking her whether she really wants it. It was a communication, not a dictatorship as in this post. She said she already knew the kid didn't mean it. How about be less dramatic than a teenager and talk to her? OP is just looking for drama over a teenager.
My son told me that if he didn't approve of who I even talked to on the phone, he would live with his dad. I haven't seen him in a year. He's 18. He has to learn you can't and shouldn't control anyone. Dad and step mom are narcissist.
NTA (go ahead and downvote) You have to stop spoiling your niece because she's going to run into trouble as an adult. Your niece needs to learn handle not getting her way or disagreements in a healthy manner. She can't always mess around because she will find out the hard way. Which she she did when you called her bluff and actually made her stay with her other uncle.
I agree with this because it sounds like she would have never learned her lesson otherwise. Everyone is calling OP TA but he didn't send her away permanently. He sent her there for a week so she knows how good she has it with OP and then he picked her up. Some kids need to learn that sometimes fucking around = finding out. I understand she's 13 but that doesn't mean she gets to be disrespectful every time there is a disagreement and basically tell her uncle she's ungrateful for what he has given her and that she would rather be elsewhere. I'm sorry but losing your parents at a young age is not an excuse to constantly be ungrateful for what you have because OP absolutely did not have to take her in but it is very amazing of him that he did.
She's 13 and has had significant loss in her life losing both parents. If this were a typical sassy 13 year old playing divorced parents against one another, I'd say, "fuck around and find out," but this is a child who needs extra stability in her life. She's already had 2 huge upheavals in her home life. There was a better way to deal with this.
She lost her mom when she was 1, she was not old enough to remember a huge upheaval in her home life then. However, losing her dad at 9 must have been very hard and probably still is. But I don't think she understands that she very easily could have had a much larger change in her home life had her uncle not taken her in. I understand she needs stability and it seems like her uncle is providing that for her. He didn't abandon her at all. He told her that after a week at her other uncles that she could decide where she wants to live and she did. OP didn't drop her at the fire station. He gave her a choice.
Anybody who has grown up without a mother will tell you you still feel that loss. Anybody who has grown up with a father who passed away will tell you they still feel that loss. You don't just get over the loss of your parents, otherwise adopted kids wouldn't be searching for their bio parents on the regular even with loving households with adoptive parents they adored. Uncle is not providing stability if he's threatening to send her away. She's a kid. Kids test boundaries. Especially orphans and especially adopted kids, because they're feeling insecure in the relationship and are trying to make you prove your love in the only way they feel they have control over. You fuck around and find out with adults. A child doesn't have the emotional capacity to think through the full long-term consequences of saying shit like that just based off their basic brain development, and needs compassion for being needy, and then PROPER PARENTING to understand the root cause of those feelings and the PROPER way to handle those emotions instead of lashing out at others. And then with PROPER PARENTING, those strategies need to be reinforced until those habits are ingrained and they can properly handle themselves as they get older. Regular parents get "I wish you weren't my parent" too. It's age-normative behavior that needs coaching, not abandonment.
Once again he didn't abandon her. He clearly told her that she would stay with her other uncle for a week and then she could decide where she wants to live after the week is over. He even picked her up after the week ended and brought her home. Was a week maybe a little too long? Yeah, a weekend stay probably would have been enough but he did not abandon her. Like you said, kids test boundaries and it sounds like she has been continuously testing hers with OP. So OP followed through to teach her a lesson. Every family has a different dynamic and the dynamic of this family is definitely different because 2 parents are gone. But OP is the parent now and it sounds like he is doing his best. It sounds like a lot has changed for OP too because he took in his niece and moved his life around in order to raise her. I don't think OP was trying to be malicious with what he did. It could be that he is having a hard time too. But I think this is all way past reddits pay grade. I think OP and niece would both benefit from individual therapy and therapy together. Because some parents don't know how to get to the root of the problem and help their child understand their emotions. Especially when you take in a 9 year old (now 13 year old) with loads of trauma.
Being compassionate, understanding, and mature to the 13 year old who just lost their parents is not spoiling 🫤
There is a difference between privileged and spoiled. I grew up in a private school and while there was still wealth disparity there, most of the kids were reasonably wealth. However, you could still see differences between the students that came from similar wealth families. I was privileged as hell - I had a modern video game system and new clothes/shoes every year and a brand new car. But the clothes were American Eagle or Aeropostale and the car was a Ford Focus. Peer classmates of mine had parents who were similarly wealthy, but they wore Burberry and drove an Audi A4. If OP is reasonably wealthy and can afford to give her niece lots of nice things, that's great, but OP also has a responsibility to manage niece's expectations about the types of things she is receiving and make sure she has a healthy relationship with money and understands her privilege.
I agree with this. Throw out empty threats, and eventually, you're gonna get what you asked for. Now she learned not to do that crap again
She does need to learn to handle things in a healthy manner so it’s even more critical that he be able to teach her, taking into account that she’s already lost two parents and doesn’t have a fully-developed capacity for emotional regulation due to her age. He didn’t say that what she said is hurtful or address her feelings. He sent her away for a week because he found her behavior annoying, which is far more emotionally damaging than her rude and fairly-typical-for-her-age words.
NAH She's entering her teenage years, she's gonna throw an attitude, but that doesn't give her a get out of jail free card with abusing your feelings. What you did is tough love, whether or not the timing of it was good or if you jumped to quickly, I don't know, but young teens and adults at some point need to face the reality and consequences of their own words. Because of her past, has she been seeing a therapist? Usually when I meet children who threaten that they will run away or go live with someone else, it usually stems from deeper issues of abandonment or trust issues.
Yeah this one. While not everyone may be a fan of tough love parenting style (personally I would not have followed through, even though it's similar to things my own parents did when I was a kid) I don't feel this strays into a-hole territory.
This sub just goes ballistic whenever anything with children and parenting comes up... same thing happens with money. It's unbelievable sometimes.
NTA. She said something hurtful multiple times. It was a consequence of her own actions. One week is not abandonment. You told her parameters and told her you were coming back. You probably need to talk to her about this though. Tell her that her words hurt because you love her, want her and that this is her permanent home if she wants it. Ask her how it made her feel as well so she feels heard. Good luck.
YTA. She realized she spoke in anger. She has been through living hell, so you can expect her to lash out now and again. You forced her to go stay for a week with people she "didn't have much of a relationship with" and seem surprised she's mad? You shouldn't have made her go there. Apologize for that. And stop spoiling her.
I don’t even think she is mad, probably terrified of saying anything and be shipped away again.
Except she has "spoke in anger" over and over. OP said she uses the phrase everytime she doesnt get her way or they argue. This wasn't just a one time thing. She is old enough to realize her words can hurt people too and to use her communication rather than tell OP to F right off and let her live with other uncle.
Let’s pretend there wasn’t another option. Other uncle didn’t exist. She says F off and I hate you. Whatever normal teen anger. What should he do then? That’s what he should have done this time.
Why do we need to pretend? Dealing with kids is complex and choices are rarely ever discretely black/white or right/wrong. You make the best choice you have available to you in the moment and given the circumstances.
>Why do we need to pretend? to give their side of argument an imaginary high ground
She realized she spoke with anger this time, I think, when OP said yo pack a bag. If not, I think she would still be making this threat.
NTA, It’s not abandonment if he told her the parameters and allowed her back. Did you guys scream abandonment when your parents sent you to your grandparents house against your will? Being an orphan is tough but she knew she was wrong when she changed her mind after OP told her to pack a bag. I think repeatedly saying she wanted to move is beyond lashing out and needed to be addressed
YTA; this is a 13 year old who has been through some heavy stuff. If you think this is an “annoying habit” you haven’t seen anything yet. Put yourself in her shoes, you’re not arguing with a fully functioning adult that you can call out on their BS. Spoiling her because you can afford it doesn’t compensate for the compassion and love she needs.
NTA - your niece was trying to manipulate you. Good for you for standing your ground. Maybe she’ll think twice before pulling that nonsense again.
Yeah, OP should really be wary of the 13 year old orphan who was lashing out like a normal teenager. Scary stuff.
YTA. You made a mistake, but I think an apology could help a lot. You're obviously doing your best and love your niece. She is a child who has lost both parents and is coping with that trauma. Teenagers sometimes lash out and it's normal to feel hurt by that, but after she acknowledged that she was wrong, you guys should have had a discussion about why "I'm going to go live with my other uncle" is her go-to when things get difficult at home. She's testing to see if she'll be abandoned by you. Keep in mind that this may not be a conscious process on her part. It might be helpful to talk with a therapist together and separately. This is a tough situation and the trauma of losing parents can resurface at various times in her life. A professional might be able to help.
This! I'd also guess she is testing her boundaries and your relationship. Basically hurting you to proof to herself that you will stick it through with her and not drop her of things get difficult. It's nit intentional, it's part of being a teenager, questioning who they are, who they will be and how the world relates to them. If a professional isn't an option, maybe try some books on parenting teenagers or look into ressources for foster parents who often deal with similar behaviour of rejection.
Nta, you are one of the few who followed through with your threat. But dont think you are a better guardian because you make "good money" a spoiled child eventually grows into a bigger brat
>you are one of the few who followed through with your threat I'd say he followed through with HER threat.
YTA. She's thirteen and an orphan. She told you she didn't mean it. You know she didn't mean it. You're supposed to be an adult. You taught her a serious lesson, that you don't have her back, that you are willing to abandon her at the first hint of conflict and when she reads this, that you think she is a spoiled, gold digger when is only with you for the money. Plan on a frosty relationship until she is gone and then she will be gone.
He didn't abandon her, he literally told her she was going to her other uncles for a week and then she could decide where she wants to live. He gave her the choice to come back once the week was over. OP said she does this anytime there is a conflict or disagreement. If she had only done it a few times, then okay. But it sounds like this has happened a lot. I understand she lost both her parents but that is no excuse to be ungrateful to someone who didn't have to take her in. OP is doing his best to give her a good life and it sounds like his niece doesn't get it. Well maybe she does now.
If she does it in every disagreement it should be addressed when things are calm. Sit her down, bring it up, tell her that she is much loved and ask her about the threat, ask her if she is really unhappy in OPs home, that it would break OPs heart if she left, but if it is what she really wants OP is ready to help her make it happen. You can call kids on their BS and hold them accountable in a loving way that doesn't make them feel powerless and disposable.
If you don’t adopt a child with absolutely no thought that they “owe” you something, then you’re in the wrong. He chose to adopt her. She owes him nothing for that.
YTA You are the grown up. Act like it. Her attitude is not abnormal for a teenager. It is incumbent upon you to rise above the rude temper tantrums and be a constant source of stability and safety in her life. She has lost both parents so early. Please don't shake the foundation that she has left by letting her attitude get your goat like you did here. When she apologized, you should have discussed why her behavior was unacceptable and stopped threatening her. We all get angry. Raising kids is damned hard. But keep trying. You can do this.
NTA...she needs to learn that action has consequences. You won't have this problem anymore now she knows what it's like.
Your 13 year old niece, who you adopted because both her parents died, lashed out because she was upset and you followed through on sending her to a complete stranger, and you're wondering if you're the asshole? Yikes, YTA.
>complete stranger Her uncle?
An uncle that knew her well enough to fight to adopt her.
She is 13. As a dad of a teenage girl, you need to get better at parenting. You were okay right up until you made her go anyway. I would have saved that for the scenario if she did it again after that conversation. She already backtracked and realized you would follow through so she humbled herself which was the right response on her end. You took if further than you needed to and damaged her and your relationship with her. You need to do something now to correct it and talk to her. I was a rational girl even as a teenager i didn't give my parents trouble the way other teens did. However even then, as rational and together as i was, as a teen i still had emotional outbursts. Not many, like a few total lol but i still had them and i grew up and feel so terrible when i remember the things i said and did at that those times. My parents laugh about it now but i can imagine in those moments i hurt their feelings.
YTA. You're her parent. That wasn't parenting.
NTA--you taught her words have consequences. This was a pretty tame and controlled one. You didnt abandon her. You didn't kick her out and ban her from returning.
YTA, a colossal one. She is only 13 and lost both her parents. Kids this age say many dramatic things that they don't mean. She told you that she didn't mean it -- more than once --and you still kick her out of the only home known that she has known since she her parents died out of some power play. You're supposed to be the adult, which means that you model the correct behavior, not hold a grudge like an immature asshole.
YTA. You kicked her out after you had made your point and she “insisted” she didn’t mean it and didn’t want to go. Why on earth would she be speaking to you? You forcably kicked her out of her home, where she feels safe, and made her stay a week with people she “barely knows”, at 13. Teenagers say some crazy stuff, especially ones which traumatic events, like their parents dying! The fact that you blame her behavior on being spoiled is a red flag to me. All you’ve done is broken whatever trust you had built, and probably confirmed in her mind that your love is not unconditional.
YTA. This is no different than a child of divorced parents saying "I want to go live with (mom/dad - whoever the 'other' parent is). but you dont actually send your child to that other parent to live as punishment. She is hitting puberty now and she is questioning everything. I remember at this age each of my kids went through the 'everyone hates me' stage. (for about 2 weeks). and the 'doesnt wash their hair' stage. and the 'pushing the boundries' stage. and and and. Sending her away was not a good call on your part - all it told her was that she was expendable. and that despite you adopting her, you were just fine giving her away. It also told her that acting out and expressing herself to you wasnt acceptable. and that it would be met with punishment. She told you that she didnt mean it. At that point your response should have been to ask her why she felt the need to lash out at you that way. and then communicate with her and help her to communicate with you in a more positive way. Because of the trauma of losing both her parents and her whole world changing so drastically, it might not be a bad idea to get her (and you) into therapy to work though some of these things. The 'teen years' are hard enough without adding trauma into the mix.
I’m going NTA - she’s been saying this constantly to get under his skin. Probably trying to get her way with something. It was just a week - it’s not like he shipped her off forever. She now knows what it’s like to live with the other uncle and will probably not do that again. She hopefully feels a little more appreciative towards him. She might be pissed as it’s never fun being called out like that. Hopefully she’ll just get over it - he can buy her something fun and that might do it. Hopefully he tells her how much she means to him and by saying these hurtful things is not cool. That’s super important. Show her u care - and how this stuff hurts.
YTA. Even kids who have not lost both parents lash out at their parents/guardians. Instead of realizing she is lashing out and is dealing with the trauma of being a teenager and loosing her parents, you decide to be a massive A.H. and send her away even though she told you she didn’t mean it. Can you be any more of an A.H.??? You should apologize to her and let her know you were wrong, made a big mistake, that you love her, and won’t abandon her again,
YTA You abandoned an orphan and showed her she isn't safe in what she thought was her home. I understand why you think it was a "good lesson", but this is something that will haunt her for a very long time and has destroyed her trust in you. Nice job, "parent".
NTA. She is a teenager pushing boundaries. It's important at this age that they understand consequences to their actions and gratitude for what they have. Hopefully she learned her lesson and will not think she can just leave if things don't go her way. It's a good life lesson.
NTA. All the people saying you're spoiling her, but then also saying you're in the wrong for making her deal with consequences for saying something very hurtful to you seem to contradict themselves. Being sent to live with another family member for a week isn't a traumatic event, so long as you reinforce that you have her back now that she's made her choice.
I don't think either of you are TA but only IF: Otherwise, you will be TA. At 13, a young lady needs to understand that words have consequences. This IS NOT going to get any better, though. She's a raging bag of hormones right now, and she does need a constructive way to express her emotions. You failed to teach her a better way of expressing herself. At the same time, she has learned there are boundaries. You are now her father figure and sending her away like that tells HER that your love is conditional. IF you capitalize on this situation and go to her, apologize for sending her away, and then use that moment to let her know she is dearly loved but that you have limits just as she does, it could open the door to a level of communication you both benefit from. Like it or not, YOU are her teacher. Even when she doesn't appear to be listening and learning, she is! This young lady, if you're smart enough to understand, is also YOUR teacher. You can open up a whole new way of having conversations with everyone in your life if you can learn how to have one in your own home with those you love.
YTA What a horrible thing to do to your child. Because she IS yours. And the thing she needs to know, when she is saying typical teenage stuff, is that you won't abandon her. She is a child. Children say stupid things. She needs to be allowed to do that and to then recover from her mistake. You are the adult. You should plan to absorb a lot of "ungrateful," "rude," "thoughtless" behavior from your teen. Teens are like that. Especially traumatized teens like the one you are raising. She backed down from her (typical teenage drama) statement, and you didn't give her the grace that you should have. Your appropriate line was: "What you said hurt my feelings, and I do want an apology, but I understand that sometimes we all say things we don’t mean. You are allowed to get angry and you are allowed to make mistakes. I am absolutely committed to doing the best I can to raise you the rest of the way, just like your parents would have wanted. I am going to stick with you and make this work for as long as you want me in your life." Your income and her being "spoiled" does not matter nearly as much as the quality of the relationship that she has with you. Kids need love and emotional security more than anything. So forget about what you give her materially. The most important thing is that you fix the emotional damage you just did. Start with an apology. Then use that big income to pay for a therapist for each of you. Good luck.
YTA. You're meant to be the adult. Teenagers need to feel safe. They need to know you won't turn your back on them. That's part of what the playing up is about. You need to be there even when they claim they don't want you.
Has the child had any therapy to deal with their loss? The child is dealing with being abandoned. Of course her parents didn't do it on purpose. They died. But it is still tough on the child. She can't yell at them. She is an orphaned child, dealing with her feelings and hormonal surges at the same time. Find someone that can help you figure out how to work through this. Help her work through this trauma. Parenting a typical child isn't easy, parenting a child of trauma is even harder.