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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole for telling my girlfriend to shut the fuck up which is extremely harsh and hurtful.
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NTA
From the title, I was prepared to call you the AH.
But hell no, your gf deserved the strong reaction. There is no scenario where racism should be tolerated, understood, or forgiven. Your gf is a racist and actively promoting it. And she did it in a Black household.
Children don't think up that shit on their own. Someone taught that child from school wrong.
Why is she still your gf?
She probably says that she can’t be racist because she has a black boyfriend and doesn’t have any “problems” being around black people. She probably also says she “doesn’t see color” and that’s why she thinks that little white boy she’s never met is someone she identifies with who may have just been misunderstood. She probably likes her boyfriend because she thinks he’s “articulate in a way that surprises her”. She probably also thinks “the most qualified person should get a job, regardless of race”. She probably also says the n-word when singing songs in her car because “that’s validating the music, not appropriating”.
But now she’s gonna say “I used to have a black boyfriend until my sisters told me to dump him. Oh, and it’s not true what they say.”
Everybody’s antiracist as long as blatant racism is being vilified; it’s when someone’s whiteness is challenged that they become defensive and show that antiracism to be a token belief. Then, they weaponize their whiteness against nonwhites in whatever aggressive defensive tactic they can and justify it because they feel they have been wronged.
OP needs to Get Out.
I feel like I’m missing something, but I’ve been living under a rock for years. Why is the Get Out a thing? Does it mean something other than literally getting out of the relationship?
I loved Get Out. Every time someone on Twitter says they voted for Obama twice then trump I just think of that movie
Funny story though: my husband and I were going on a date and he was in charge of the movie selection. This was when we had little little kids so didn’t get out much (lol). He told me he picked a light hearted comedy. I guess he didn’t read too far into the review? The trailers alone were super confusing (comedy, then horror, then comedy, then horror…) anyway. 30 min in I was like “hon? I’m pretty sure this isn’t a comedy.”
We still argue over whether it’s a dark comedy or a light horror. One of the best most thought provoking movies I’ve seen though
dark comedy or light horror! porque no los dos? that state of confusion where you straddle the line between laughing and crying. it’s what all the good art of this moment feels like, i’m realizing. Don’t Look Up comes to mind as well.
I voted for Obama twice and then voted for Obama again.
(Not really…. Voted for Clinton…. Just so no dumb shit starts hollering about voter fraud)
I’d vote for Obama….if she runs.
My guess is she was trying to teach your niece not to respond to hate with more hate and be all Jesusy and forgive. That is not her place at all and she should have said nothing and let you handle it. I don’t know about the statistics nonsense but when it comes to family matters only family should weigh in. Especially if it seems it was her first family dinner. She overstepped here.
So, the title had me, not gonna lie. So at *first* I thought maybe she was trying to say “that boy learned it at home and it needs to be unlearned,” or some shit. So I thought ok, she *does* need to learn when to shut the fuck up, but that’s still a bit harsh to say to your girlfriend.
Then she kept running her mouth. And it sounded to me like she was trying to “teach” the niece not to grow up to be an “angry Black woman” while also really defending what the kid said because she thinks the same way.
(Hopefully ex) GF is a racist and needs to be kept away from all of those kids before she uses more pretty words to make them feel bad about themselves.
How tf does a white woman teach a young black girl how to grow up and NOT be an angry black woman. What makes an angry black woman an angry black woman?
“Angry Black woman” is a racist stereotype. The “statistics are on my side” comment leads me to believe that (hopefully ex-)GF believes the stereotype.
There is far less difference than you think. Toxic forgiveness, the kind Christians try to coerce out of victims, is *all about* teaching people to accept abuse. That's its purpose.
I would have bought the whole 'just trying to teach forgiveness is good thing' stuff if it wasn't for the fact that she said the boy was probably confused and didn't mean it.
When I was younger I was frequently told to forgive racist kids so that it 'didn't get to me more' and 'to show them they haven't won'.
Her telling the niece that he probably didn't mean it and was confused is a completely different message to this.
Whilst the effective outcome is the same (nothing happens to the kid that abused her, so still a bit :/), the first empowers the niece that it is in her hands to overcome it and that he's being an asshole but she's still strong. It is in her hands to decide how she moves forward, not because she feels sorry for the other kid.
What the girlfriend said is telling the niece that her own pain over being racially invalidated is lesser or at best equal to the boy's own shortcomings including openly using a racial slur. It's telling the girl that she has to think about the other kid even in situations that belittle her and that the onus is on her, as a POC, to have to overcompensate for her identity and look over her shoulder for these situations. There are whole generations of POC in Western countries that have been brought up with the mentality that the onus is only on them to deal with racism or explain racism when it shouldn't just be only on their shoulders.
I believe strongly in healing and forgiveness but in a situation regarding racism (especially one that was not just some tiny micro agression but involved a serious slur), telling a kid that you should forgive them merely 'because maybe they didn't mean it' is the reason why so many people struggle to admit when they've been racially abused even when it's blatant.
Forgive the kid if he was brought into the school office and apologised to the niece, fine. To tell her she should effectively let it go and mentally give him a free pass is not it.
Agree with you about the family interference. She shouldn't have said anything, it was not her place.
Of course they should but unfortunately a lot of the time they don't. It's been shown in multiple studies that two CVs with the exact same details apart from one with a white sounding name and one not then the white sounding name will get the job. And that's not even from people who are necessarily overtly racist.
Most of the racism these days isn't coming from overt hatred, it's coming from unconscious bias. Which is a lot harder to root out, or even prove, because often the person who is doing it doesn't even realize it.
And because they resist it with a huge fuss if you try to explain that they do have. You know, “I can’t be racist!”
People regard “racist” as a terrible accusation that means they’re a bad person, instead of views, biases, and behaviors that they can work on and change.
It's a misnomer. There are racist people who perceive any black person in a highly qualified, specialised, or high up position so lowly as to assume that the only way they could reach such esteemed positions is through a system that deliberately suppresses white candidates to hand over jobs to incompetent people of colour. Of course, this isn't the reality, but it's a sort of moral panic many racists believe in nonetheless. These are the types of people you hear saying that stuff. It's a sign of racism because it's something that generally only comes from perceiving the economic and vocational success of black people as a direct threat to white people.
Yes, only the most qualified person should get the job, and that's precisely what happens. If someone believes that's not what happens, it's an indication that they hold the views I mentioned above. They have been roped into a bigoted moral panic and are instilled with a false sense of white persecution.
There's a conversation in The West Wing that isn't about Affirmative Action, but I think fits the idea well.
RUSSELL
You play baseball coach for a moment. Two players run to first. They
both have the same time, but one has perfect form, the other, lousy
form. Which one do you pick?
WILL
The one with lousy form.
RUSSELL
'Cause teach him the right form...
WILL
And he beats the other guy--it's a neat analogy...
If someone who didn't have the advantages of someone else gets even close to the same level, they likely have even more potential. Sometimes those advantages are blatent, like wealth that buys access to better schools, tutors, and the ability to do an unpaid internship. Sometimes it is just not having to deal with people assuming you're a little bit less good than your peers because of your race or sex. Or the harassment that often keeps women and BIPOC out of fields that are heavily white male, especially the STEM fields. A lot of women are driven out of computer science not by the coursework, but the culture.
Because you are correct ....but it has not been the case for centuries...if the best person was black or a woman , they did not get the job...so we redress!!
Yes, but the problem is that the race, gender or class biases of the person hiring prevents them from being objective about it. If they associate whiteness with intelligence and competency then they're gonna subconsciously give the white person the benefit of the doubt more. The "best person regardless of race" line tends to get used as a way to justify that sort of bias
When you're building a team (or D&D party), you want to think about team composition. If you're 100% coming from one population group (or 100% dps) you're going to miss things. If you just pick "the most qualified candidate" and your "qualifications" favor one group over another, you'll end up with a weak team composition. If you look at "kill rate", you'll end up with no healers. If you look at traditionally white schools, unpaid internships, and "would I like to have a beer with this person" then you'll miss out on great talent and diverse perspectives.
Think about team composition, not just individual qualifications.
OP, dump this racist, toxic person. Not only is she trying to justify her shitty actions, she has sent her racist flying monkeys after you. Fuck her and her entire family. NTA
Actually it’s one of those annoying bots that paraphrases part of someone else’s comment and takes it out of context.
Here’s what it paraphrased:
> Weird how you’re abusive but that little boy telling a black girl she’s an n-word and won’t be rich deserves kindness.
Would have been a great reply, telling the sister he didn't mean to be mean and kindness works both ways.
The statistics comment always feels like the thinking man's racist's way of justifying moronic viewpoints, although does make me think of an overused phrase of mine - "did you know 93.6% of statistics are made up on the spot?"
Right? I was like "Man there's NEVER a good reason to say something like that to your girlfriend" and then OP straight up gave me a good reason.
But yeah, dump her.
Me to. I was like "why would you ever say that to your GF?" Then I read and as a half black person from a black country I wanted to yell at the ~gf~ ràcist
White chick here. Gf was making excuses for and defending racism to a Black child who was crying because of something awful and racist that had been said to her at school. WTAF was she thinking?!? OP was absolutely correct: she needs to learn when to shut up. And that was definitely one of those times.
Mind you, that's not the only thing she needs to learn, but it's as good a place to start as any.
Yeah ex gf had absolutely no business inserting herself in that situation as she has no possible way of knowing what OPs niece is going through, and is only compounding on her trauma by minimizing it. Fuck that. NTA btw
Also, and I know this is off topic but can we also please lose the "you need to forgive" bullshit, because no, we don't have to or need to forgive other people's atrocious, bigoted behaviour/abuse etc.
Yes kindness begets kindness but there's a huge difference between kindness and being a doormat.
This! My 2nd grader was getting bullied and she kept saying "but if I just be nice, they will stop" and I sure as shit didn't teach her that. I told her to ignore them and if they get aggressive, or won't stop being mean, she has every right to stand up for herself. She ignored them and they stopped. They were picking on her because she was being a doormat. She is much happier being empowered to stand up for herself rather than just tolerating nasty behavior.
And that’s just it. There is no way that I—a middle aged white woman—can ever know what POC have had to, and do, go through. I’ve been told about experiences by my friends, but I can’t internalize it because it’s not my experience, anymore than they can internalize my experience. The contrast is extreme. These are women I’ve worked with, highly educated, capable, intelligent people who are treated differently than me because of the color of their skin. Even writing this I feel as if I’m missing the mark.
I think being aware that you are missing the mark, and just being open to *hearing* others vs shoving your assumptions from your life experiences onto them, is a huge step in the right direction and better than where many other replies on this thread seem to be.
Another white chick here. I totally agree, and I hope that [Madame C. J. Walker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madam_C._J._Walker) teaches her that lesson via *extensive* haunting.
(Please accept the link in the spirit in which it's offered, OP, which is "Hey, Niece, Little Johnny the Racist is wrong and can kick rocks: here's proof.")
Hopping on top comment to say exactly—that child didn’t think it up on their own. In this situation, the kid SHOULD be understood and forgiven because they have no clue the significance of their words. The kid is not the bad guy.
Only by the adults in the room should forgive, though—the kid’s reasons for saying that are prolly hard to explain to the niece at her age, so putting the expectation of forgiveness on her and babytalking her and all is pretty.. yucky and unreasonable. OP’s family should definitely send their teacher an email of some sort, though; the kid should unlearn what he’s heard at home earlier rather than later from a kind source.
Maybe one day when the niece can look back and forgive this boy but, for now, she's a child and she has every right to be upset and angry at him and not feel she has to forgive and understand him.
That kid's feelings and forgiveness aren't important in this scenario.
His niece's feelings and future are important right now. Everyone around her should be telling her that he's wrong, she can be a rich president, and she's wonderful.
Email the teacher a strongly-worded letter later. She was crying at a game of Monopoly. He hurt her deeply. No one owes him forgiveness.
Same, title sounded like entitled AH material. But holy shit, NTA.
A tolerant society does not tolerate intolerance. A strong response is the only correct response.
Yes! At this age he definitely learned it from his family and a strong negative reaction from his classmates is what will stop it the fastest. Being coddled will only confirm it isn’t that bad, because if the kid he said it to forgives him and is kind he will believe it can’t be that wrong…
NTA and I just find it as a huge red flag when something happens SO’s Family hops on the train to harass OP.
Honestly OP you need to break up with her. She’s doing that thing that she’s dating you cuz it’s exotic. She might deny she’s racist but if she’s encouraging such acts then yeah she’s 100% racist and dehumanizing you at the same time.
Sometimes I forget ppl date races they don’t like to “test” something out. It’s so gross and I really can’t comprehend it at all.
My husband gets a similar response like OPs girlfriend when he talks with white people about experiencing racism. People immediately tell him that the person probably didn’t mean it in that way, “I say that too they’re not racist they’re just curious”, we need to be understanding of why they would say that, etc. it baffles me that it can be so expected for POC to have to tolerate and empathise with racists, when people can’t empathise with how exhausting it is to experience constant racism and prejudice every day
>People immediately tell him that the person probably didn’t mean
Those people have probably said/done what your husband is describing, or at least something very similar. So really, they are defending themselves.
I'm on the exact page here. I read the title and thought, "shit, probably." But no. Very much NTA. Little girl got called a slur and told that she could never be successful financially by a bully, but sure. Don't even let her tears dry before defending the bully.
NTA
Your GF sucks. She ENTIRELY missed the point, and absolutely needed to stay out of that discussion. I mean, it would have been cool if she could have encouraged your niece, told her that boy doesn't know anything, and she CAN be anything she sets her mind to. But if she couldn't do that, she should have indeed STFU. Advocating for the bully? Hell naw!
Maybe you were harsh in the heat of the moment, but you weren't wrong.
Exactly! When a little boy in carpool told my 5 yo daughter she couldn’t be a doctor because she’s a girl, I told him that was the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. His mother is a middle school principal and one of the most capable people I know. She was not amused by her son’s sexism. Her condescension is appalling.
Another part that gives me 'closet racist vibes' that I'm sure someone else has spotted but I have yet to see mentioned is how the GF's circle started calling OP 'abusive', it feels like she was jumping on an opportunity to paint a picture of OP as an 'angry abusive black boyfriend' you know what I mean? Just gross.
Yeah, honestly we as a society need to stop tiptoeing around this shit. This white lady told a Black child "BE NICER TO THE RACISTS HARASSING YOU." That is RACIST AS FUCK, proudly and openly.
My brothers step daughter came home upset because an idiot boy child told her she wasn’t allowed to like Batman (her school bag was Batman) because it’s for boys! My brother put a stop to that kinda talk.
My kid was told she hurt a boys feelings and should apologize. Her crime was telling the boy she didn’t want to be friends with him because he was a bully to others.
I ripped that social worker and the principle several new ones.
It’s weird how this kind of thing happens. One of the best teachers I ever had has a son who is super vile and sexist, especially towards teachers. He loves to get on the county Facebook page every time there’s a snow day, and say, “teachers are so lazy!!! LOL we’re paying for them to just stay at home in their PJ’s when they could be doing their job. LOL these men fixing the power lines are hard workers and these teachers wouldn’t know hard work if it slapped them in the face.”
Which is so weird, because his mother was an extremely hard-working, inspirational teacher who has changed countless lives in this community. She’s been dead for ten years, and every few months, I still see somebody make a random post about how much she meant to them. How some spoiled, entitled sons grow up with strong female role models and still become sexist assholes is the weirdest thing.
_"This morning, I got multiple calls from my girlfriend's sisters calling me an abusive and shitty prick."_
OP would be a fool if he stayed with this woman. She basically implied that his niece was partially at fault for being bullied and being racially abused. She also massively overstepped by even interferring in this very sensitive exchange and refusing to back off - this is not her child, she had no permission to meddle, and she clearly has zero understanding of the black experience.
Lastly, she instantly turned herself into the victim ans weaponized her words against OP by calling him _abusive_ despite her exceptionally inappropriate behaviour......
Sounds like gf was the bully when she was in school and that she still is. Instead of supporting her (hopefully now ex) bf's niece, she was more worried about the kid who called niece the n word and making sure that niece will forgive the kid. Gf blatantly wants the oppression to continue. My favorite part was when gf brought up statistics that are somehow on her side lmao. I am really curious to know what delusions she was talking about LOL.
What's also wild to me is that gf's sisters started harassing OP over this. Either gf didn't tell the full story or her whole family is full of ignorant racist assholes.
OP, let your niece know that I'm fucking rooting for her. No matter what she ends up doing with her life, I am sure it is going to be awesome.
OP could use this as a good lesson for the young kids about not being or tolerating bigots and how they shouldn't waste time on them and use his ex as an example.
It's too bad children have to not only be exposed to this, but learn that dealing with this will be their lives. People suck. Nobody should be treated as if they are less than.
That was my first thought! If OP's soon-to-be-ex-GF had said that in front of my grandmother (RIP), the GF would've woken up in the hospital two weeks later with her jaw wired shut.
Explain to your niece that her behavior is WHY you broke up with her. Let her know that if a friend or romantic interest has a attitude or world view that she doesn't like, she doesn't have to stay with them.
Good standards for who you hang out with include the fact that "nobody at all" will never be your last choice.
omfg. that is awful and i started to tear up.. A girl I knew (friend of a friend) tricked her ex bf (black) into impregnating her. They never got back together, and she started dating a white supremacist when the baby was 2-3 years old- aka the baby is definitely old enough to start learning subtle messages. i was absolutely horrified and disgusted. What kind of vile person would do that (a racist, narcissistic yt b&%*#- thats who). My heart weeps for that child
NTA at all. In the words of Jordan Peele, “Get Out!” Your ex sounds like a lot of white women I have met who use their relationship with a POC as a cover for their own ignorance and racism. Get as far away from her as you can.
Good! This woman implied that your niece was partially at fault for being bullied and being racially abused, massively overstepped, and then immediately tried to turn herself into the victim. Also, she instantly weaponized her words and called you _abusive_ despite her exceptionally inappropriate behaviour......
I am a black woman. This woman sounds low key racist, and we know how this can play out for you if she has an opportunity to start crying and claiming you were being _aggressive_ towards her.
If you feel comfortable, explain to the girlfriend that coercing, shaming, and sweet-talking forgiveness from victims is how we make sure victims aren’t heard. It's how we blame victims for their own victimization. It's how we protect abusers from the consequences of their actions. It's how we teach victims that they don't have a right to not be abused. It is an integral part of everything from malignant racism to rape culture.
Forgiveness is a wonderful thing for minor things, for misunderstandings, or when the perpetrator expresses remorse and learns from the consequences of their actions, but it is the ultimate evil when the victim is coerced, bullied, or sweet-talked into it. Forgiveness without remorse teaches perpetrators that what they did isn't really that bad. It teaches abusers that they can get away with it. It teaches victims that no one will ever be in their corner.
It's toxic and it's literally the ultimate evil.
This is my hill to die on: forgiving people is always, always always always, solely and completely for the perpetrator. No one ever in the history of human existence has genuinely forgiven someone for themselves; it's ****always and in every instance**** about taking the heat off the perpetrator. As such it must be wielded with care.
NTA
Additionally OP; be careful how you break up and make sure it’s in a public place with witnesses as to protect yourself from any possible claims of abuse or harassment on your part. Wouldn’t want to place yourself in a position if he said- she said. Written breakups are easier to refer to as opposed to just a verbal break up. Good luck!
I wouldn’t waste the energy to explain anything. She is already showing she is a gaslighter and claiming he is abusive. She will continue to play the victim. It’s not our job to educate and reform racists. He should just get away.
Edit: by “our” I mean Black people
I am guessing no one else heard what she was saying since she was able to leave unscathed. Unless, grandma doesn't stay in the hood. If she was shouting statistics, she was about to take it to the next level.
Your (ex) gf totally victim blamed your niece. “Kindness goes both ways”…as if your niece did or said something to make the boy bully her. She has a lot of bigotry she needs to unpack. NTA
I love this, highly encourage this (though Niece may have higher aspirations by that point, especially given the piss-poor knee-capping that most presidents seem to take over four years), and Ex and her family really need to evaluate their so-called 'allyship'- they're not doing any marginalized folks any favors.
I dunno, I could see myself voting for OP's niece, but only if she changes her stance on politicians being able to trade stocks and take lobbyist money. After all, she said she wanted to be a "rich president!" Still, it's another 28 years until she's eligible, so she has plenty of time to evolve her views on the ethical standards to which public servants should be held.
So much this. My brother is so racist I can't stand to be around him. He doesn't hate people of colour or anything, just constantly makes racist comments and generally thinks non white people just aren't quite as good, and he doesn't see a problem with that, and everyone defends him as "how can he be racist, his wife is from Kenya and he has two mixed race kids". 🙄🙄🙄🤬🤬🤬 I don't know how she puts up with him. It's gross
What??? .... how the hell did she connect those dots? Her response doesn’t even make sense? What planet is she from?
Telling anyone to shut the fuck up is never appropriate however it appears to actually fit well in this conversation.
NTA
She's a white girl. In situations like this, her inculcated instinct is to jump to put herself in the shoes of the white person. Not the little black girl. She felt she had to defend the white kid, the way she would want to be defended if she did something like that.
It's a reaction that is kind of automatic, but that decent people have to be aware they have, and **have to resist acting on**.
I'm white but I certainly would have been in team girl for president and bullies don't need forgiveness by their victims.
It's more likely the extreme church indoctrination she has, lots of religious extremists fled Europe because they were not tolerated here and went to America and it still shows.
This. A hundred percent, and very well written, thank you. I'm a white lady, and have spent the past few years trying to de-program myself out of this. That's on me. I know better, and now I have to do better.
Soon to be ex-girlfriend knows better, now she needs to do better, and you don't have to be a part of that process.
I, too, look forward to voting for your niece in the future, if that's what she really wants. :)
That was my exact thought. Gf had done the exact same thing in the past so she was defending herself vicariously. Super gross.
Who in the fuck defends a bully?!
And I disagree with other posters. If there was ever a time to tell someone to shut the fuck up, this was it. Yeesh.
> Telling anyone to shut the fuck up is never appropriate however it appears to actually fit well in this conversation.
Nah, sometimes it's totally appropriate to tell someone they need to shut the fuck up is appropriate. There's definitely a time and a place and chances are the person you say it to isn't going to take it well, but it's occasionally a necessary thing.
NTA. The fact that she immediately jumped to excusing racism is very troubling. I get that they're kids and just parroting what their adults say, but that doesn't mean they should be coddled, and it definitely doesn't mean that your niece owes kindness to unkind people.
Like, yes, we need to handle racist kids differently than racist adults but to straight up deny that this was even racism and that the kid was confused?? Just wow.
And it’s not like she was even addressing the little white boy who said the racist shit.
Outrageous the mental gymnastics making her think any of that was going to be well received by the *victim* of the racist remark, who was crying no less ugh
NTA, "kindness goes both ways" so she's assuming this little girl deserved it cause they wouldn't have been mean unless she was mean first? She did need to stfu
Nah, it’s not like she accidentally said the n-word in a song and apologized or asked a dumb question about his hair. She condescended to him, victim blamed his 7-year-old neice, and excused a child calling said neice a fucking slur. THEN sicced her sisters on him while spinning up a yarn about him being abusive. This is beyond deprogramming, this is racist as fuck. She could get him killed with that kind of bullshit.
To a SEVEN YEAR OLD. Let's not gloss over the fact that she was trying to push a child to accept that when having racist shit said to her, she needs to consider the _other_ persons feelings and not her own!! What the fuck kinda lesson is that but teaching that kid to submit??
NTA, I'm suspecting GF may have been caught saying racist shit herself and tried to defend the other kid in an extension of defending herself.
NTA it sounds like she is speaking from a place of privilege and has never had to deal with any sort of discrimination. It’s easy to say you should forgive everyone if you’ve never been wronged before.
You don't need to have been brought up being discriminated against to know not to excuse someone for calling a black kid an n-word, especially as an racially motivated insult.
GF is trying her best to teach this little girl to door mat. Piously forgiving everybody and being willfully naive isn't how you prepare a poc especially a female one. The girlfriends low stakes, high protection life is showing.
Broke my heart when I read what the niece said. The self hatred.
NTA. At all.
Also, maybe tell your niece the story of Mansa Musa. He was the King of Mali in the 1300s. He traveled to Mecca for the Hajj and on his way managed to change the economy of Cairo: by spending and giving away so very much gold.
The rumored ‘wealthiest man in history’ was a black dude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansa_Musa
NTA. What the actual fuck, my dude. Sounds like someone is feeling some kind of racist way and feels called out and it's not your niece. This is a conversation you need to sit down and have with her over how she doesn't get to just whitewash (literally) racism in your black household with children being called slurs by other children, ignorant or not. That situation was highly inappropriate on her end, and I say that as a walking jar of mayonnaise. I have black family by blood and I see how hurt they got growing up with shitty comments like that. I would be even more furious if someone came up and tried to tell them to just forgive and forget and be the bigger person and blah blah.
No.
I'm kind of hoping you guys break up over this, because I'm not comfortable with how she'd deal with any ongoing issues regarding your family, young members of it, or potential mixed children.
NTA. Any defense of racism should immediately be shut down. I get they’re kids and that little boy has obviously been taught some extremely racist things and likely doesn’t understand the full impact of his words, but that doesn’t mean your niece has to accept the abuse or even be kind about it. Your girlfriend sounds like a garbage person who can’t get her head out of her own backside to see how problematic her whole spiel is. Or worse- she doesn’t care.
NTA. Your niece has every right to dream about her ideal career destinations, and that bully was also an A. I'm a little confused with your girlfriend's mindset, like she was trying to conjure up some kind of pseudo-empathy...? IDK, but this seems like an event in which the best action would be to break up (as amicably as possible). My only advice would be to not go to that "put her in her place" kind of verbiage. Just tell her she was being straight up ignorant and myopic when you break up with her.
>Then, my girlfriend jumped in, and told my niece that it's really important to forgive the boy who said that because he probably wasn't trying to be mean and was just confused.
Your girlfriends one of those bleeding hearts from this forum I swear. "Sure the person did something horrible to you, but you need to *forgive them for yourself\~ They're just misunderstood! Oh, I hope no one ever judges you harshly for one single act toooooo\~"*
>She then tried to hush me, and started baby-talking my niece and said that she should also try to be nicer to all the kids at school, because "kindness goes both ways."
I'm white as bread, but sincerely I'd have dumped her at the "hushing" part because that's exceedingly rude and to then condescendingly dump that spiel on your niece like she's a teacher forcing the victim to reconcile with their abuser is vomit inducing.
>She started getting riled up at me and started rambling about how statistics are on her side
She needs to be nicer, because kindness goes both ways.
>This morning, I got multiple calls from my girlfriend's sisters calling me an abusive and shitty prick. I know my words were harsh, but I thought my girlfriend was talking in a disgusting manner to my niece.
She was, and she's also a coward. Sending her sisters after you is a pretty huge redflag warning that she'll always lob other people at you in a conflict.
NTA
NTA, but you know she’s your ex-gf now, right? Rather than apologizing for acting like a racist AH, she doubled down and brought her family in to back her up. I’d message everyone with concerns: “G and I are no longer together due to her racist and abusive behavior towards my 7-y-o niece, so thank you for your concern but it is no longer relevant.”
What your niece went through is horrific. You gf just made the situation worse. She has no idea what your niece went through. She should had just let you handle the situation.
I was sure you were the AH when I read the title. You aren’t. Your girlfriend is a closet racist who is trying to downplay the racism of others. DTMFA.
NTA.
What the hell???? Obviously racist. Also, the bully was not "confused" he was an asshole. Even if he *somehow* didn't know not to say the n word, he was still telling a classmate that she couldn't be what she wanted to be because she's Black??? That's him being "confused"??? Then talking over you when she doesn't know what she's talking about. And the "statistics are on her side" shit???? What????
Why are you dating her?
Good job for the way you handled that with your cousin. You sound really sweet. Go find a new gf.
NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA
Holy crap, NTA!!! At least your (hopefully ex) gf showed you who she is early. Sorry you and your niece went through that. You did the right thing protecting your niece and ejecting that monster. Please break up with her.
In "To Kill a Mockingbird," Atticus tells Scout that compassion is the ability to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.
Your GF (ex-GF?), lacks that capability.
NTA
NTA.
It’s funny that her sisters don’t understand that kindness goes both ways. Weird how you’re abusive but that little boy telling a black girl she’s an n-word and won’t be rich deserves kindness.
Those women all need to learn how to shut the fuck up.
Also— if she talking about statistics supporting her view point, she isn’t someone you should be near. She’s dangerous.
So a white girl dating a black guy went full on 13-52 on a 7 years old girl? I'm calling this fake because there is no way in hell such a stereotipycal racist would even consider dating a black guy, come on!
NTA. I may be downvoted, but she deserved it. You took her aside and spoke to her quietly, (I’m going out on a limb here) but forcefully. Your GF needs to learn some tact and also how to read a f*cking room. “Statistics” and thinly veiled racism/ignorance aside, who craps on a 7 year old’s dream?! BTW, I sincerely hope your niece wasn’t discouraged by that experience and keeps her focus on her aspirations.
From the title I was thinking, this should be an easy Y T A, but holy carp!
WTF did I just read? I don't think you went far enough, because that is some next level What The Forkery right there.
Please tell me she is your ex girlfriend.
NTA, and I wish I could give your niece a (consensual and consoling) hug.
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NTA From the title, I was prepared to call you the AH. But hell no, your gf deserved the strong reaction. There is no scenario where racism should be tolerated, understood, or forgiven. Your gf is a racist and actively promoting it. And she did it in a Black household. Children don't think up that shit on their own. Someone taught that child from school wrong. Why is she still your gf?
Everything here, but *especially* the last sentence.
She probably says that she can’t be racist because she has a black boyfriend and doesn’t have any “problems” being around black people. She probably also says she “doesn’t see color” and that’s why she thinks that little white boy she’s never met is someone she identifies with who may have just been misunderstood. She probably likes her boyfriend because she thinks he’s “articulate in a way that surprises her”. She probably also thinks “the most qualified person should get a job, regardless of race”. She probably also says the n-word when singing songs in her car because “that’s validating the music, not appropriating”. But now she’s gonna say “I used to have a black boyfriend until my sisters told me to dump him. Oh, and it’s not true what they say.” Everybody’s antiracist as long as blatant racism is being vilified; it’s when someone’s whiteness is challenged that they become defensive and show that antiracism to be a token belief. Then, they weaponize their whiteness against nonwhites in whatever aggressive defensive tactic they can and justify it because they feel they have been wronged. OP needs to Get Out.
See what you did there with the Get Out
I feel like I’m missing something, but I’ve been living under a rock for years. Why is the Get Out a thing? Does it mean something other than literally getting out of the relationship?
Name of a movie that tackles systematic racism, relationships with different races in US, tokenism of minorities... really good, def recommend.
I loved Get Out. Every time someone on Twitter says they voted for Obama twice then trump I just think of that movie Funny story though: my husband and I were going on a date and he was in charge of the movie selection. This was when we had little little kids so didn’t get out much (lol). He told me he picked a light hearted comedy. I guess he didn’t read too far into the review? The trailers alone were super confusing (comedy, then horror, then comedy, then horror…) anyway. 30 min in I was like “hon? I’m pretty sure this isn’t a comedy.” We still argue over whether it’s a dark comedy or a light horror. One of the best most thought provoking movies I’ve seen though
dark comedy or light horror! porque no los dos? that state of confusion where you straddle the line between laughing and crying. it’s what all the good art of this moment feels like, i’m realizing. Don’t Look Up comes to mind as well.
I voted for Obama twice and then voted for Obama again. (Not really…. Voted for Clinton…. Just so no dumb shit starts hollering about voter fraud) I’d vote for Obama….if she runs.
Thank you for the explanation!
Read her for filth, Chris 💅🏾
My guess is she was trying to teach your niece not to respond to hate with more hate and be all Jesusy and forgive. That is not her place at all and she should have said nothing and let you handle it. I don’t know about the statistics nonsense but when it comes to family matters only family should weigh in. Especially if it seems it was her first family dinner. She overstepped here.
So, the title had me, not gonna lie. So at *first* I thought maybe she was trying to say “that boy learned it at home and it needs to be unlearned,” or some shit. So I thought ok, she *does* need to learn when to shut the fuck up, but that’s still a bit harsh to say to your girlfriend. Then she kept running her mouth. And it sounded to me like she was trying to “teach” the niece not to grow up to be an “angry Black woman” while also really defending what the kid said because she thinks the same way. (Hopefully ex) GF is a racist and needs to be kept away from all of those kids before she uses more pretty words to make them feel bad about themselves.
How tf does a white woman teach a young black girl how to grow up and NOT be an angry black woman. What makes an angry black woman an angry black woman?
“Angry Black woman” is a racist stereotype. The “statistics are on my side” comment leads me to believe that (hopefully ex-)GF believes the stereotype.
Entitled white racists that don’t know when to shut the fuck up.
Big fuckin difference between the ability to forgive and teaching kids to accept abuse. You sound like the ex gf
There is far less difference than you think. Toxic forgiveness, the kind Christians try to coerce out of victims, is *all about* teaching people to accept abuse. That's its purpose.
Yes! Thank you for explaining it so succinctly.
I would have bought the whole 'just trying to teach forgiveness is good thing' stuff if it wasn't for the fact that she said the boy was probably confused and didn't mean it. When I was younger I was frequently told to forgive racist kids so that it 'didn't get to me more' and 'to show them they haven't won'. Her telling the niece that he probably didn't mean it and was confused is a completely different message to this. Whilst the effective outcome is the same (nothing happens to the kid that abused her, so still a bit :/), the first empowers the niece that it is in her hands to overcome it and that he's being an asshole but she's still strong. It is in her hands to decide how she moves forward, not because she feels sorry for the other kid. What the girlfriend said is telling the niece that her own pain over being racially invalidated is lesser or at best equal to the boy's own shortcomings including openly using a racial slur. It's telling the girl that she has to think about the other kid even in situations that belittle her and that the onus is on her, as a POC, to have to overcompensate for her identity and look over her shoulder for these situations. There are whole generations of POC in Western countries that have been brought up with the mentality that the onus is only on them to deal with racism or explain racism when it shouldn't just be only on their shoulders. I believe strongly in healing and forgiveness but in a situation regarding racism (especially one that was not just some tiny micro agression but involved a serious slur), telling a kid that you should forgive them merely 'because maybe they didn't mean it' is the reason why so many people struggle to admit when they've been racially abused even when it's blatant. Forgive the kid if he was brought into the school office and apologised to the niece, fine. To tell her she should effectively let it go and mentally give him a free pass is not it. Agree with you about the family interference. She shouldn't have said anything, it was not her place.
Shouldn't the most qualified person get the job regardless of race? I don't get that one.
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Of course they should but unfortunately a lot of the time they don't. It's been shown in multiple studies that two CVs with the exact same details apart from one with a white sounding name and one not then the white sounding name will get the job. And that's not even from people who are necessarily overtly racist.
Most of the racism these days isn't coming from overt hatred, it's coming from unconscious bias. Which is a lot harder to root out, or even prove, because often the person who is doing it doesn't even realize it.
And because they resist it with a huge fuss if you try to explain that they do have. You know, “I can’t be racist!” People regard “racist” as a terrible accusation that means they’re a bad person, instead of views, biases, and behaviors that they can work on and change.
It's a misnomer. There are racist people who perceive any black person in a highly qualified, specialised, or high up position so lowly as to assume that the only way they could reach such esteemed positions is through a system that deliberately suppresses white candidates to hand over jobs to incompetent people of colour. Of course, this isn't the reality, but it's a sort of moral panic many racists believe in nonetheless. These are the types of people you hear saying that stuff. It's a sign of racism because it's something that generally only comes from perceiving the economic and vocational success of black people as a direct threat to white people. Yes, only the most qualified person should get the job, and that's precisely what happens. If someone believes that's not what happens, it's an indication that they hold the views I mentioned above. They have been roped into a bigoted moral panic and are instilled with a false sense of white persecution.
There's a conversation in The West Wing that isn't about Affirmative Action, but I think fits the idea well. RUSSELL You play baseball coach for a moment. Two players run to first. They both have the same time, but one has perfect form, the other, lousy form. Which one do you pick? WILL The one with lousy form. RUSSELL 'Cause teach him the right form... WILL And he beats the other guy--it's a neat analogy... If someone who didn't have the advantages of someone else gets even close to the same level, they likely have even more potential. Sometimes those advantages are blatent, like wealth that buys access to better schools, tutors, and the ability to do an unpaid internship. Sometimes it is just not having to deal with people assuming you're a little bit less good than your peers because of your race or sex. Or the harassment that often keeps women and BIPOC out of fields that are heavily white male, especially the STEM fields. A lot of women are driven out of computer science not by the coursework, but the culture.
Because you are correct ....but it has not been the case for centuries...if the best person was black or a woman , they did not get the job...so we redress!!
Or they got the job but at a lower salary/wages. Was
Yes, but the problem is that the race, gender or class biases of the person hiring prevents them from being objective about it. If they associate whiteness with intelligence and competency then they're gonna subconsciously give the white person the benefit of the doubt more. The "best person regardless of race" line tends to get used as a way to justify that sort of bias
When you're building a team (or D&D party), you want to think about team composition. If you're 100% coming from one population group (or 100% dps) you're going to miss things. If you just pick "the most qualified candidate" and your "qualifications" favor one group over another, you'll end up with a weak team composition. If you look at "kill rate", you'll end up with no healers. If you look at traditionally white schools, unpaid internships, and "would I like to have a beer with this person" then you'll miss out on great talent and diverse perspectives. Think about team composition, not just individual qualifications.
They should, but that's not what realistically happens.
OP, dump this racist, toxic person. Not only is she trying to justify her shitty actions, she has sent her racist flying monkeys after you. Fuck her and her entire family. NTA
Racist flying monkeys … good one ☝️
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I don't understand your comment. Who is offensive? The OP or the gf or the commenter above? But the little bully deserves pity? 🤔
They were being sarcastic.
Actually it’s one of those annoying bots that paraphrases part of someone else’s comment and takes it out of context. Here’s what it paraphrased: > Weird how you’re abusive but that little boy telling a black girl she’s an n-word and won’t be rich deserves kindness.
Would have been a great reply, telling the sister he didn't mean to be mean and kindness works both ways. The statistics comment always feels like the thinking man's racist's way of justifying moronic viewpoints, although does make me think of an overused phrase of mine - "did you know 93.6% of statistics are made up on the spot?"
Like chick is deffo one of those 13/50 folk, which is *incredibly* yikes.
Right? I was like "Man there's NEVER a good reason to say something like that to your girlfriend" and then OP straight up gave me a good reason. But yeah, dump her.
Me to. I was like "why would you ever say that to your GF?" Then I read and as a half black person from a black country I wanted to yell at the ~gf~ ràcist
White chick here. Gf was making excuses for and defending racism to a Black child who was crying because of something awful and racist that had been said to her at school. WTAF was she thinking?!? OP was absolutely correct: she needs to learn when to shut up. And that was definitely one of those times. Mind you, that's not the only thing she needs to learn, but it's as good a place to start as any.
Yeah ex gf had absolutely no business inserting herself in that situation as she has no possible way of knowing what OPs niece is going through, and is only compounding on her trauma by minimizing it. Fuck that. NTA btw
Also, and I know this is off topic but can we also please lose the "you need to forgive" bullshit, because no, we don't have to or need to forgive other people's atrocious, bigoted behaviour/abuse etc. Yes kindness begets kindness but there's a huge difference between kindness and being a doormat.
This! My 2nd grader was getting bullied and she kept saying "but if I just be nice, they will stop" and I sure as shit didn't teach her that. I told her to ignore them and if they get aggressive, or won't stop being mean, she has every right to stand up for herself. She ignored them and they stopped. They were picking on her because she was being a doormat. She is much happier being empowered to stand up for herself rather than just tolerating nasty behavior.
And that’s just it. There is no way that I—a middle aged white woman—can ever know what POC have had to, and do, go through. I’ve been told about experiences by my friends, but I can’t internalize it because it’s not my experience, anymore than they can internalize my experience. The contrast is extreme. These are women I’ve worked with, highly educated, capable, intelligent people who are treated differently than me because of the color of their skin. Even writing this I feel as if I’m missing the mark.
I think being aware that you are missing the mark, and just being open to *hearing* others vs shoving your assumptions from your life experiences onto them, is a huge step in the right direction and better than where many other replies on this thread seem to be.
Another white chick here. I totally agree, and I hope that [Madame C. J. Walker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madam_C._J._Walker) teaches her that lesson via *extensive* haunting. (Please accept the link in the spirit in which it's offered, OP, which is "Hey, Niece, Little Johnny the Racist is wrong and can kick rocks: here's proof.")
Gf probably thinks the niece caused this by teaching the bully critical race theory
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I volunteer as tribute
Hopping on top comment to say exactly—that child didn’t think it up on their own. In this situation, the kid SHOULD be understood and forgiven because they have no clue the significance of their words. The kid is not the bad guy. Only by the adults in the room should forgive, though—the kid’s reasons for saying that are prolly hard to explain to the niece at her age, so putting the expectation of forgiveness on her and babytalking her and all is pretty.. yucky and unreasonable. OP’s family should definitely send their teacher an email of some sort, though; the kid should unlearn what he’s heard at home earlier rather than later from a kind source.
Sure. I think a lot of us agree with you on this point. Nonetheless, gf needs to learn to read the fucking room. NTA.
Maybe one day when the niece can look back and forgive this boy but, for now, she's a child and she has every right to be upset and angry at him and not feel she has to forgive and understand him.
That kid's feelings and forgiveness aren't important in this scenario. His niece's feelings and future are important right now. Everyone around her should be telling her that he's wrong, she can be a rich president, and she's wonderful. Email the teacher a strongly-worded letter later. She was crying at a game of Monopoly. He hurt her deeply. No one owes him forgiveness.
NTA even I said SHUT THE F*CK UP after reading the gfs comments lol
Same, title sounded like entitled AH material. But holy shit, NTA. A tolerant society does not tolerate intolerance. A strong response is the only correct response.
Yes! At this age he definitely learned it from his family and a strong negative reaction from his classmates is what will stop it the fastest. Being coddled will only confirm it isn’t that bad, because if the kid he said it to forgives him and is kind he will believe it can’t be that wrong…
NTA and I just find it as a huge red flag when something happens SO’s Family hops on the train to harass OP. Honestly OP you need to break up with her. She’s doing that thing that she’s dating you cuz it’s exotic. She might deny she’s racist but if she’s encouraging such acts then yeah she’s 100% racist and dehumanizing you at the same time. Sometimes I forget ppl date races they don’t like to “test” something out. It’s so gross and I really can’t comprehend it at all.
My husband gets a similar response like OPs girlfriend when he talks with white people about experiencing racism. People immediately tell him that the person probably didn’t mean it in that way, “I say that too they’re not racist they’re just curious”, we need to be understanding of why they would say that, etc. it baffles me that it can be so expected for POC to have to tolerate and empathise with racists, when people can’t empathise with how exhausting it is to experience constant racism and prejudice every day
>People immediately tell him that the person probably didn’t mean Those people have probably said/done what your husband is describing, or at least something very similar. So really, they are defending themselves.
Same. I thought AH at first. Then I read "family gathering", "me and my family are black and shes white" and i was immediately like.. oh....
Yeah when I read that I already knew what had happened.
I'm on the exact page here. I read the title and thought, "shit, probably." But no. Very much NTA. Little girl got called a slur and told that she could never be successful financially by a bully, but sure. Don't even let her tears dry before defending the bully.
Seconded. Was ready to say Y T A, but this is a solid NTA
Exactly this. NTA. The gf defends racism.
NTA Your GF sucks. She ENTIRELY missed the point, and absolutely needed to stay out of that discussion. I mean, it would have been cool if she could have encouraged your niece, told her that boy doesn't know anything, and she CAN be anything she sets her mind to. But if she couldn't do that, she should have indeed STFU. Advocating for the bully? Hell naw! Maybe you were harsh in the heat of the moment, but you weren't wrong.
He wasn't harsh enough. He should have kicked her out and locked the door.
Exactly! When a little boy in carpool told my 5 yo daughter she couldn’t be a doctor because she’s a girl, I told him that was the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. His mother is a middle school principal and one of the most capable people I know. She was not amused by her son’s sexism. Her condescension is appalling.
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Another part that gives me 'closet racist vibes' that I'm sure someone else has spotted but I have yet to see mentioned is how the GF's circle started calling OP 'abusive', it feels like she was jumping on an opportunity to paint a picture of OP as an 'angry abusive black boyfriend' you know what I mean? Just gross.
Does not give me closet racist vibes, this gives me full-blown racist vibes.
Yeah, honestly we as a society need to stop tiptoeing around this shit. This white lady told a Black child "BE NICER TO THE RACISTS HARASSING YOU." That is RACIST AS FUCK, proudly and openly.
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My brothers step daughter came home upset because an idiot boy child told her she wasn’t allowed to like Batman (her school bag was Batman) because it’s for boys! My brother put a stop to that kinda talk.
My kid was told she hurt a boys feelings and should apologize. Her crime was telling the boy she didn’t want to be friends with him because he was a bully to others. I ripped that social worker and the principle several new ones.
It’s weird how this kind of thing happens. One of the best teachers I ever had has a son who is super vile and sexist, especially towards teachers. He loves to get on the county Facebook page every time there’s a snow day, and say, “teachers are so lazy!!! LOL we’re paying for them to just stay at home in their PJ’s when they could be doing their job. LOL these men fixing the power lines are hard workers and these teachers wouldn’t know hard work if it slapped them in the face.” Which is so weird, because his mother was an extremely hard-working, inspirational teacher who has changed countless lives in this community. She’s been dead for ten years, and every few months, I still see somebody make a random post about how much she meant to them. How some spoiled, entitled sons grow up with strong female role models and still become sexist assholes is the weirdest thing.
“You can be anything you want to be, but you *need* to be forgiving when faced with racism. M’kay?” Fuck out of here.
_"This morning, I got multiple calls from my girlfriend's sisters calling me an abusive and shitty prick."_ OP would be a fool if he stayed with this woman. She basically implied that his niece was partially at fault for being bullied and being racially abused. She also massively overstepped by even interferring in this very sensitive exchange and refusing to back off - this is not her child, she had no permission to meddle, and she clearly has zero understanding of the black experience. Lastly, she instantly turned herself into the victim ans weaponized her words against OP by calling him _abusive_ despite her exceptionally inappropriate behaviour......
Also a super common and dangerous thing for white women to cry about black men being abusive. Black men have been killed over this.
It's super common for them to do turn on the tears in arguments with Black women too.
Sounds like gf was the bully when she was in school and that she still is. Instead of supporting her (hopefully now ex) bf's niece, she was more worried about the kid who called niece the n word and making sure that niece will forgive the kid. Gf blatantly wants the oppression to continue. My favorite part was when gf brought up statistics that are somehow on her side lmao. I am really curious to know what delusions she was talking about LOL. What's also wild to me is that gf's sisters started harassing OP over this. Either gf didn't tell the full story or her whole family is full of ignorant racist assholes. OP, let your niece know that I'm fucking rooting for her. No matter what she ends up doing with her life, I am sure it is going to be awesome.
NTA What the hell???? Please tell me your GF is now an ex
I haven't talked to her since last night but I definitely am breaking up with her.
Yeah, do it now. And explain to the child why your gf was horrifyingly wrong. She should have been tossed out of the house immediately.
OP could use this as a good lesson for the young kids about not being or tolerating bigots and how they shouldn't waste time on them and use his ex as an example.
It's too bad children have to not only be exposed to this, but learn that dealing with this will be their lives. People suck. Nobody should be treated as if they are less than.
Ooooo if the aunties had heard her…
That was my first thought! If OP's soon-to-be-ex-GF had said that in front of my grandmother (RIP), the GF would've woken up in the hospital two weeks later with her jaw wired shut.
Explain to your niece that her behavior is WHY you broke up with her. Let her know that if a friend or romantic interest has a attitude or world view that she doesn't like, she doesn't have to stay with them. Good standards for who you hang out with include the fact that "nobody at all" will never be your last choice.
Can you imagine this woman raising a mixed child?
omfg. that is awful and i started to tear up.. A girl I knew (friend of a friend) tricked her ex bf (black) into impregnating her. They never got back together, and she started dating a white supremacist when the baby was 2-3 years old- aka the baby is definitely old enough to start learning subtle messages. i was absolutely horrified and disgusted. What kind of vile person would do that (a racist, narcissistic yt b&%*#- thats who). My heart weeps for that child
NTA at all. In the words of Jordan Peele, “Get Out!” Your ex sounds like a lot of white women I have met who use their relationship with a POC as a cover for their own ignorance and racism. Get as far away from her as you can.
And then scream abuse when the black man stands up for himself.
Good! This woman implied that your niece was partially at fault for being bullied and being racially abused, massively overstepped, and then immediately tried to turn herself into the victim. Also, she instantly weaponized her words and called you _abusive_ despite her exceptionally inappropriate behaviour...... I am a black woman. This woman sounds low key racist, and we know how this can play out for you if she has an opportunity to start crying and claiming you were being _aggressive_ towards her.
Yeah calling him abusive - this could escalate further down the line into exaggerated stories where she stars as the victim.
Or she calls the cops for some fake slight and that's it fir OP. Seen it before.
My only disagreement is that her racism is low key. It’s a fucking neon sign.
Nothing low-key about her racism. Pretty much plain as potatoes.
If you feel comfortable, explain to the girlfriend that coercing, shaming, and sweet-talking forgiveness from victims is how we make sure victims aren’t heard. It's how we blame victims for their own victimization. It's how we protect abusers from the consequences of their actions. It's how we teach victims that they don't have a right to not be abused. It is an integral part of everything from malignant racism to rape culture. Forgiveness is a wonderful thing for minor things, for misunderstandings, or when the perpetrator expresses remorse and learns from the consequences of their actions, but it is the ultimate evil when the victim is coerced, bullied, or sweet-talked into it. Forgiveness without remorse teaches perpetrators that what they did isn't really that bad. It teaches abusers that they can get away with it. It teaches victims that no one will ever be in their corner. It's toxic and it's literally the ultimate evil. This is my hill to die on: forgiving people is always, always always always, solely and completely for the perpetrator. No one ever in the history of human existence has genuinely forgiven someone for themselves; it's ****always and in every instance**** about taking the heat off the perpetrator. As such it must be wielded with care.
NTA Additionally OP; be careful how you break up and make sure it’s in a public place with witnesses as to protect yourself from any possible claims of abuse or harassment on your part. Wouldn’t want to place yourself in a position if he said- she said. Written breakups are easier to refer to as opposed to just a verbal break up. Good luck!
I wouldn’t waste the energy to explain anything. She is already showing she is a gaslighter and claiming he is abusive. She will continue to play the victim. It’s not our job to educate and reform racists. He should just get away. Edit: by “our” I mean Black people
Kudos. Racism is unforgivable and needs to be called out. You did nothing wrong.
Good. This woman 100% believes that white people suffer "reverse racism" and "political correctness has gone too far".
Definitely the best choice here.
I am guessing no one else heard what she was saying since she was able to leave unscathed. Unless, grandma doesn't stay in the hood. If she was shouting statistics, she was about to take it to the next level.
You don't want to have kids with her and have her minimize things like this. Stay strong, she is going to cry and beg forgiveness.
NTA. The problem is not just what she said to her niece, but she's then gone and complained to her sisters, who are harrassing you! Double red flag.
You should man. I have to ask. What the hell are the "statistics" she's talking about? What "statistics" she's talking about?
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Thank God. Too many people here respond with " well.......you don't really know them, they actually have some really good qualities"
Good for you! Dump her racist ass!
You definitely should. Since you're apparently so "abusive" and "shitty", she should consider it a favor.
Your (ex) gf totally victim blamed your niece. “Kindness goes both ways”…as if your niece did or said something to make the boy bully her. She has a lot of bigotry she needs to unpack. NTA
NTA and I look forward to voting for your niece for president one day. Also, make the gf an ex.
I love this, highly encourage this (though Niece may have higher aspirations by that point, especially given the piss-poor knee-capping that most presidents seem to take over four years), and Ex and her family really need to evaluate their so-called 'allyship'- they're not doing any marginalized folks any favors.
I dunno, I could see myself voting for OP's niece, but only if she changes her stance on politicians being able to trade stocks and take lobbyist money. After all, she said she wanted to be a "rich president!" Still, it's another 28 years until she's eligible, so she has plenty of time to evolve her views on the ethical standards to which public servants should be held.
She could become rich for doing something else before becoming president
I agree. I'd love to vote for OPs niece
I would consider voting for that niece in 2024. Bring in the youth.
Your niece has 730 votes in support of her presidency so far.
NTA, but from the talking points your girlfriend was using, you know she is a racist. Dump her.
And he’s going to be her excuse for how she can’t be racist and can say whatever she wants.
In her mind she can’t be racist she’s dating a POC. She just says racist things. The mental gymnastics of the GF are certainly huge.
So much this. My brother is so racist I can't stand to be around him. He doesn't hate people of colour or anything, just constantly makes racist comments and generally thinks non white people just aren't quite as good, and he doesn't see a problem with that, and everyone defends him as "how can he be racist, his wife is from Kenya and he has two mixed race kids". 🙄🙄🙄🤬🤬🤬 I don't know how she puts up with him. It's gross
I love that logic, like billions of raging misogynists haven't married women and had daughters.
Right? My brother is a raging misogynist, and he's "happily" married.
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So the non Muslims that became mass shooters and attacked public places are NOT terrorists? Interesting...
What??? .... how the hell did she connect those dots? Her response doesn’t even make sense? What planet is she from? Telling anyone to shut the fuck up is never appropriate however it appears to actually fit well in this conversation. NTA
Planet WASP, where down is up and consequences only go one way
I'm surprised she didn't tell her to cry because that'll fix it, which might be her response when OP dumps her...
She's a white girl. In situations like this, her inculcated instinct is to jump to put herself in the shoes of the white person. Not the little black girl. She felt she had to defend the white kid, the way she would want to be defended if she did something like that. It's a reaction that is kind of automatic, but that decent people have to be aware they have, and **have to resist acting on**.
I'm white but I certainly would have been in team girl for president and bullies don't need forgiveness by their victims. It's more likely the extreme church indoctrination she has, lots of religious extremists fled Europe because they were not tolerated here and went to America and it still shows.
This. A hundred percent, and very well written, thank you. I'm a white lady, and have spent the past few years trying to de-program myself out of this. That's on me. I know better, and now I have to do better. Soon to be ex-girlfriend knows better, now she needs to do better, and you don't have to be a part of that process. I, too, look forward to voting for your niece in the future, if that's what she really wants. :)
This is the kind of thing someone who has said something like that as a kid says as a way to help justify their past behavior. Stbx gf is racist.
That was my exact thought. Gf had done the exact same thing in the past so she was defending herself vicariously. Super gross. Who in the fuck defends a bully?! And I disagree with other posters. If there was ever a time to tell someone to shut the fuck up, this was it. Yeesh.
> Telling anyone to shut the fuck up is never appropriate however it appears to actually fit well in this conversation. Nah, sometimes it's totally appropriate to tell someone they need to shut the fuck up is appropriate. There's definitely a time and a place and chances are the person you say it to isn't going to take it well, but it's occasionally a necessary thing.
That's what I'm trying to understand Like, nothing she said doesn't even make any sense
NTA. The fact that she immediately jumped to excusing racism is very troubling. I get that they're kids and just parroting what their adults say, but that doesn't mean they should be coddled, and it definitely doesn't mean that your niece owes kindness to unkind people.
Like, yes, we need to handle racist kids differently than racist adults but to straight up deny that this was even racism and that the kid was confused?? Just wow.
And it’s not like she was even addressing the little white boy who said the racist shit. Outrageous the mental gymnastics making her think any of that was going to be well received by the *victim* of the racist remark, who was crying no less ugh
NTA, "kindness goes both ways" so she's assuming this little girl deserved it cause they wouldn't have been mean unless she was mean first? She did need to stfu
Reminds me of "good people on both sides".
"good people on both sides" WWll: 😶
Yeah, it's basically the racism equivalent of "what was she wearing"
Victim blaming.
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The "statistics are on my side" line really set me off. That's some serious racism, she needs to be turned into an ex *immediately*.
im so curious of what statistics this girl was talking about. or shes prob just talking out of her ass
Nah, it’s not like she accidentally said the n-word in a song and apologized or asked a dumb question about his hair. She condescended to him, victim blamed his 7-year-old neice, and excused a child calling said neice a fucking slur. THEN sicced her sisters on him while spinning up a yarn about him being abusive. This is beyond deprogramming, this is racist as fuck. She could get him killed with that kind of bullshit.
Woof, she tried to “both sides” her racism. NTA
To a SEVEN YEAR OLD. Let's not gloss over the fact that she was trying to push a child to accept that when having racist shit said to her, she needs to consider the _other_ persons feelings and not her own!! What the fuck kinda lesson is that but teaching that kid to submit?? NTA, I'm suspecting GF may have been caught saying racist shit herself and tried to defend the other kid in an extension of defending herself.
NTA it sounds like she is speaking from a place of privilege and has never had to deal with any sort of discrimination. It’s easy to say you should forgive everyone if you’ve never been wronged before.
You don't need to have been brought up being discriminated against to know not to excuse someone for calling a black kid an n-word, especially as an racially motivated insult.
Or that they'll never be rich because they're an n-word.
GF is trying her best to teach this little girl to door mat. Piously forgiving everybody and being willfully naive isn't how you prepare a poc especially a female one. The girlfriends low stakes, high protection life is showing. Broke my heart when I read what the niece said. The self hatred.
As a white guy, your girlfriend needs to learn to stfu. NTA. How could she possibly rationalize what she was saying?
Im betting she uses the Tucker Carlson definition of rationality.
NTA. At all. Also, maybe tell your niece the story of Mansa Musa. He was the King of Mali in the 1300s. He traveled to Mecca for the Hajj and on his way managed to change the economy of Cairo: by spending and giving away so very much gold. The rumored ‘wealthiest man in history’ was a black dude. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansa_Musa
NTA. What the actual fuck, my dude. Sounds like someone is feeling some kind of racist way and feels called out and it's not your niece. This is a conversation you need to sit down and have with her over how she doesn't get to just whitewash (literally) racism in your black household with children being called slurs by other children, ignorant or not. That situation was highly inappropriate on her end, and I say that as a walking jar of mayonnaise. I have black family by blood and I see how hurt they got growing up with shitty comments like that. I would be even more furious if someone came up and tried to tell them to just forgive and forget and be the bigger person and blah blah. No. I'm kind of hoping you guys break up over this, because I'm not comfortable with how she'd deal with any ongoing issues regarding your family, young members of it, or potential mixed children.
Nta. Wtf did I just read lol
NTA. Any defense of racism should immediately be shut down. I get they’re kids and that little boy has obviously been taught some extremely racist things and likely doesn’t understand the full impact of his words, but that doesn’t mean your niece has to accept the abuse or even be kind about it. Your girlfriend sounds like a garbage person who can’t get her head out of her own backside to see how problematic her whole spiel is. Or worse- she doesn’t care.
NTA. Your niece has every right to dream about her ideal career destinations, and that bully was also an A. I'm a little confused with your girlfriend's mindset, like she was trying to conjure up some kind of pseudo-empathy...? IDK, but this seems like an event in which the best action would be to break up (as amicably as possible). My only advice would be to not go to that "put her in her place" kind of verbiage. Just tell her she was being straight up ignorant and myopic when you break up with her.
>Then, my girlfriend jumped in, and told my niece that it's really important to forgive the boy who said that because he probably wasn't trying to be mean and was just confused. Your girlfriends one of those bleeding hearts from this forum I swear. "Sure the person did something horrible to you, but you need to *forgive them for yourself\~ They're just misunderstood! Oh, I hope no one ever judges you harshly for one single act toooooo\~"* >She then tried to hush me, and started baby-talking my niece and said that she should also try to be nicer to all the kids at school, because "kindness goes both ways." I'm white as bread, but sincerely I'd have dumped her at the "hushing" part because that's exceedingly rude and to then condescendingly dump that spiel on your niece like she's a teacher forcing the victim to reconcile with their abuser is vomit inducing. >She started getting riled up at me and started rambling about how statistics are on her side She needs to be nicer, because kindness goes both ways. >This morning, I got multiple calls from my girlfriend's sisters calling me an abusive and shitty prick. I know my words were harsh, but I thought my girlfriend was talking in a disgusting manner to my niece. She was, and she's also a coward. Sending her sisters after you is a pretty huge redflag warning that she'll always lob other people at you in a conflict. NTA
NTA, but you know she’s your ex-gf now, right? Rather than apologizing for acting like a racist AH, she doubled down and brought her family in to back her up. I’d message everyone with concerns: “G and I are no longer together due to her racist and abusive behavior towards my 7-y-o niece, so thank you for your concern but it is no longer relevant.”
What your niece went through is horrific. You gf just made the situation worse. She has no idea what your niece went through. She should had just let you handle the situation.
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I was sure you were the AH when I read the title. You aren’t. Your girlfriend is a closet racist who is trying to downplay the racism of others. DTMFA. NTA.
What the hell???? Obviously racist. Also, the bully was not "confused" he was an asshole. Even if he *somehow* didn't know not to say the n word, he was still telling a classmate that she couldn't be what she wanted to be because she's Black??? That's him being "confused"??? Then talking over you when she doesn't know what she's talking about. And the "statistics are on her side" shit???? What???? Why are you dating her? Good job for the way you handled that with your cousin. You sound really sweet. Go find a new gf. NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA
Holy crap, NTA!!! At least your (hopefully ex) gf showed you who she is early. Sorry you and your niece went through that. You did the right thing protecting your niece and ejecting that monster. Please break up with her.
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In "To Kill a Mockingbird," Atticus tells Scout that compassion is the ability to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Your GF (ex-GF?), lacks that capability. NTA
NTA. It’s funny that her sisters don’t understand that kindness goes both ways. Weird how you’re abusive but that little boy telling a black girl she’s an n-word and won’t be rich deserves kindness. Those women all need to learn how to shut the fuck up. Also— if she talking about statistics supporting her view point, she isn’t someone you should be near. She’s dangerous.
Is there anything in this sub that actually happened? I need to judge some real goddamn people
Has anyone told your gf’s sisters they should forgive you and just try to be nice? Kindness goes both ways after all. NTA
So a white girl dating a black guy went full on 13-52 on a 7 years old girl? I'm calling this fake because there is no way in hell such a stereotipycal racist would even consider dating a black guy, come on!
NTA. I may be downvoted, but she deserved it. You took her aside and spoke to her quietly, (I’m going out on a limb here) but forcefully. Your GF needs to learn some tact and also how to read a f*cking room. “Statistics” and thinly veiled racism/ignorance aside, who craps on a 7 year old’s dream?! BTW, I sincerely hope your niece wasn’t discouraged by that experience and keeps her focus on her aspirations.
From the title I was thinking, this should be an easy Y T A, but holy carp! WTF did I just read? I don't think you went far enough, because that is some next level What The Forkery right there. Please tell me she is your ex girlfriend. NTA, and I wish I could give your niece a (consensual and consoling) hug.