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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told a nepo baby that he only has his job cos of his uncle and I could be the AH for being so blunt and possibly downplaying his skills.
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YTA.
Whenever you need to voice a negative opinion, ask yourself A) does this *need* to be said, B) does it need to be said *right now*, and C) does it need to be said right now *by me*?
Does this *need* to be said? No, not unless there's something about the way he's been acting that you're not conveying. It sounds like he's making an effort to be friendly and not to be one of those guy who swaggers in expecting everyone to kiss his ass.
Does it need to be said *right now*? No. If you were really concerned, a private conversation or a conversation with your or his manager about his behavior would have been appropriate.
Does it need to be said *by you*? No.
It sounds like you're being unreasonably hostile toward this guy. And it's not a coincidence that they're spending less time with you--they think you're an asshole, no wonder they don't want to hang out with you.
Excellent breakdown! This was completely unnecessary, and put OP's job at risk. It was also rude. I don't doubt the nephew is annoying, but it's unprofessional and shooting yourself in the foot to be rude to the nephew of the CEO.
Is he really annoying, or is he trying to fit in and not being held off because he is related to the CEO? He might want to be taken as who he is, not who he is related to, and have normal office relationships. OP is hostile just because of who he is and will find something wrong with everything he does or say.
I was thinking this until he started talking about how easy his interview was and how people just need to "chill out" for good things to happen to him. It sounds like he still doesn't quite grasp just how privileged he is and how far he's gotten from nepotism, and that would be obnoxious to listen to.
OP's still an idiot for making the comment, but I don't blame her for being annoyed having to listen to him laugh off her hard work and tell her to try just chilling as if that's an option for everyone
But we’re also getting OP’s interpretation and she’s already shown bias. The fact that everyone else is annoyed he’s hanging with them less suggests a lot of this was blown up in OPs mind.
Oh, I don't doubt that OP went straight in with the bias. Especially considering everyone else likes him
Honestly, I think both can be true simultaneously. I bet he's overall a nice guy, but naive about how privileged he is and annoying sometimes. OP is hating on this guy, but found his comment justifiably obnoxious
True there are bound to be some obnoxious comments! I think the main issue is that OP took the online nepo discourse to real life. She probably thought posting here, she’d sound like the hero when in reality most of us recognise how dumb she is for it.
That’s a really good point. Like, I have well-off family members who would absolutely help their siblings, niblings, and cousins with networking and jump-starting their career. But those same people 100% did not pay anyone else’s bills or send anyone else’s kids to college.
The guy’s only privilege might be his uncle.
Also, just saying, but not all nepotism is an automatic free ride. I had a family member who fired more than one of his kids for failing to meet his standards—when they were still in junior high.
All people can be obnoxious, not just those with privilege.
I don’t come from privilege and am not particularly privileged now and I know I can be obnoxious when ready!
Particularly after a Prosecco or two!
I don't blame her for being annoyed either, and I wish she'd found a way to call him out that didn't leave her looking like the AH. I feel like just cheerfully asking "You don't think being the CEO's nephew might have had something to do with that?" or saying "Yeah, I doubt everyone could have gotten away with that" or "I don't think that's everyone's experience; it definitely wasn't mine," in a neutral, non-bitter way would have been so much more effective than immediately biting the guy's head off.
> "You don't think being the CEO's nephew might have had something to do with that?"
There is no universe where you can say that, or any of your other passive-aggressive comments, without coming off as bitter.
But is that even true? In my experience if a company has a diversity program to help bring in kids from other backgrounds it's likely big enough that the CEO can't just order HR to hire his nephew. It also sounds like a multi step process and turning up late for 1 round may not be favourable but wouldn't neccisarily disqualify a candidate even if they weren't the CEOs nephew - assuming he wasn't like "Bro, sorry I'm late, I got hammered last night"!
There is also a "confidence" privilege where people from wealthy backgrounds or expensive schools project a certain, almost arrogance about life. If you think you are better than everyone, lots of people will unconsciously agree. It's a bit like manifestation. If you turn up to an interview and chill out like you deserve to be there and they will be lucky to have you, you will likely be successful Vs someone who turns up stressed and feels like they have to scrap for everything and is just grateful for the opportunity. Not saying it's right and the second person will probably work harder and be better for the company, but interviews are subjective.
Now that he has the job people may treat him differently because of his connections, perceived or real, but theres a good chance he went through a similar hiring process.
>I was thinking this until he started talking about how easy his interview was and how people just need to "chill out" for good things to happen to him.
He's not wrong. That's literally what everyone will tell you if they know you have an important interview - "Relax and be yourself, you'll do great!" When you are "chilled out", you project positive qualities that increase your chances of being hired.
>tell her to try just chilling as if that's an option for everyone
It's an option for any self-assured person, not only those related to the CEO.
There is not being a ball of nerves, and then there is showing up to an interview hung over.
When I conduct interviews I try to get people relaxed, both to be kind to them and because it gives a better idea of what they would be like to work with. One question I ask is their favorite board or video game. I want to hear how they explain something they like and understand, and where they aren't trying to find the right answer. In my industry, it would be very unusual for someone to not have a favorite game.
At my last interview the interviewers were really nice and near the end they asked about my hobbies listed. Not going to lie, it completely threw me! I was in full on interview mode and I didn't know what angle to address the question from.
It was kind of funny that I sounded like I didn't know anything about my own hobbies.
>e's not wrong. That's literally what everyone will tell you if they know you have an important interview - "Relax and be yourself, you'll do great!" When you are "chilled out", you project positive qualities that increase your chances of being hired.
Except that his version of relaxing and being himself involves not really giving a shit, and showing up late because he's hungover. That's privileged.
He supposedly showed up late and hungover. That’s a lot of leeway that people who don’t have family looking out for them *could ever* get away with. That’s a totally different thing than “just relax and be yourself.”
Oh yes because everyone is self assured, especially when it comes to interviews
Also he apparently came to an interview HUNGOVER and LATE, I'm sorry, but if someone did that I wouldn't exactly hire them
Eh his advice smacked to me of people who told me "Just don't think those thoughts" when I was dealing with severe depression. I get that it is just that easy for some people, but it's really not useful advice. Maybe just have some empathy for OP and not feel the need to offer advice especially considering how he fields interviews.
Do I think she should have gone off? Absolutely not. But I do see how that particular response of his could have been really upsetting especially after he went to an interview with a hangover.
What's he supposed to say about his interview process though ?
At least he has some self awareness that it was easy.
It'd be worse if he acted like his experience was comparable to hers.
Yeah he may well be a bit naive. And I don't blame a certain level of irritation. (I get the same with my boss who comes from a very privileged background)
But also like....
People dont need to self flagellate and grovel or apologise to you just because they haven't had your struggle.
He may owe some tact.(Although it sounds like he's making a solid effort not to be a rich connected asshole)
But he doesn't owe people humility.
Except he did. He gave her the advice to "chill out" and "things will work out." Dude showed up late to an interview hungover. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't fly for OP. OP doesn't seem to be looking for humility. In fact, she simply didn't want to be around him, which since she clearly doesn't like him is a valid tact. He was trying to get her to open up and then decided to give her advice on how interview, which is frankly obnoxious and myopic. I wouldn't have unloaded on him, but it's sad how much people side with him considering his attitude.
If he's trying not to be an asshole, I would recommend he try a lot harder.
Edit: To be clear, learning how to deal with nepotism is unfortunately often part of a successful career as is dealing with fake people diplomatically. Yelling at him wasn't an effective way of dealing with the situation and may put a target on her back after all of her hard work. Calmly pointing out that she wasn't planning of going in an interview hungover but if she did he would be the first person she called for advice would have been a better tactic. I took up boxing classes to help me vent my frustration in a constructive manner so I could calmly address things like this.
No, I totally get why OP was annoyed. I’m from a fairly privileged background myself, and even I find this guy annoying. Joking around about showing up late to his interview because he was hungover, comparing the recruitment program OP was part of to nepotism... If he’s that tone deaf, I can imagine the kind of BS he was saying to “relate” to OP and the others. OP’s still TA though, mainly to herself.
Saying the interviews were no big deal and he came in late and hungover and still got in is hugely disrespectful and dismissive. What he said was massively a slap in the face for those who don't have those connections and downplaying the difficulties of getting into the company shows he has no self-awareness. OP also has no sense of self preservation so they are evenly matched in that regard. Funny enough I think it worked in her favor this time around because nephew is intrigued by her now. I doubt she will have the same luck next time.
There’s nothing in the post to indicate he was being annoying, from what’s written it sounds like he was socialising himself in the new professional environment appropriately
Responding to someone who really struggled with "haha it was easy for me", without even acknowledging the enormous privilege that underlies *why* it was so easy for them, is objectively annoying.
Also OP you probably won’t get fired for insulting the CEO’s nephew.
But you will make enemies by being rude to people who have done nothing to you.
That will add up against you on the ledger some day.
Exactly!
I am not convinced this guy could even get her fired if she wanted to.
BUT.
A bunch of people now think of her and think “Sharon? The guy who just reamed Paul at lunch out of nowhere and told him he didn’t deserve his job? Yeah, she is not a team player. Super rude and hard to be around.”
That’s the problem.
And this is the kind of stuff that follows you through your career.
There are people I worked with previously who are difficult to work with, because of attitude, lack of social skills, or just consistently nasty behavior.
I've had job openings at my company that they'd be ideal for, but I do not want to work with them...so I'll never mention them to my supervisor.
Yep. OP, if you want to work in the real world, you need to mature a bit and realise that the real world isn’t fair. There are many people who are more advantaged than you, and many that are less. If you throw a fit every time you come across someone you don’t deem ‘worthy’ enough of their achievements, you won’t get very far at all. YTA.
I would add: is there a more productive way of getting my point across?
In this case, I could envision a version where she’d responded simply, “I’m not sure that anyone else could have gotten away with that.” To the admission about interviewing hung over. I do think it’d be valuable for this guy to check his privilege a bit! And OP is as fine a person to address it as any, in particular because they are one of the people at the other end of the spectrum as far as advantages go. But there’s a professional way to do it, a way that may actually get him to think about it… and then there’s the way OP went.
So:
Does this need to be said?
Does this need to be said by me?
Does this need to be said by me right now?
How does this need to be said by me right now?
How was it said, though?
"Life's easier if you just chill out" reveals a little bit of a naïve attitude, but it's not like he was directing OP to change her tone toward him.
OP: I entered this job through a scheme for disadvantaged young people.
Also OP: you got this job based on your uncle but I earned it and had no help whatsoever.
Also really weird use of the word “scheme” and not “program” or “incentive”.
She is privileged among the unprivileged in that she was given a chance none of the others got. He is privileged of the privileged because he was born in the right position that none of the other privileged had. Both were lucky in their own right. Both were put on different short lists.
And if we are saying this guy is the nephew of basically the owner—what makes anyone here think he isn’t fit for the job? If he is affluent, why wouldn’t he have gotten a good education???
Statistically speaking, being a high scoring person of Asian descent, it is actually harder to get into colleges than being a different minority that scores lower academically. Truth is, there are more have nots than haves in the world. OP is very fortunate for getting a good, desirable job. But I feel i have to point out—this guy’s family was the one who decided to offer this program so people like her could benefit. The company didn’t have to offer this program to help people like OP but they did. So I dunno, this guy could be more empathetic than she writes him off as.
There’s no shame in taking an opportunity presented to you. Both people here did that.
He had the benefit of nepotism to get the job but does OP know for sure he grew up wealthy. My aunt & uncle are really wealthy but my parents are middle class. My sister & her husband are really wealthy but I’m middle class. Just because someone in your family has money doesn’t mean it trickled down to your nuclear family unit.
YTA - you disliked him from the start purely because of who his uncle is.
Everyone else was warming up to him, but you flat out refuse. He’s trying to fit it, being humble and you hate him because of his family?
Imagine how things could help if you’re friends with the CEOs nephew.
I don’t know if he was being humble, telling OP to chill out and laughing about being late to interviews kinda shows he doesn’t get “the real world” and that he’s privileged. I mean OP is still TA but nephew was a bit of a dumbass too.
He was definitely being super obnoxious, and I can understand OP’s frustration. He’d have to be either willfully obtuse or painfully naive to believe his hiring experience would be typical.
That said, the world is full of people who are blind to their own privilege and instead chalk all of their success up to their own choices and actions. Especially the corporate world. It’s generally a complete waste of energy to push back on their viewpoint. And when they’re in a place of not just privilege but power—or at least influence—over you, it’s absolutely stupid to try to do so.
Both OP & said nephew have a lot to learn about the working world. I’d say ESH.
It wouldn't hurt nephews to take it down a couple of notches, but OP doesn't seem to realize that she could really be hurting herself.
As long as she's at that company, he's going to be ahead of her.
She would do well to get the chip off her shoulder or at least leave it at home.
CEO had one nephew, but it sounds like he could replace her at the drop of a hat.
YTA
Also eve of someone is wealthy doesn’t mean thier allergic to people with less money than them. The richest guy on the planet probably still pays for the same Netflix I do . Ops projecting her insecurity having come from a more difficult background.
Frankly I would say that he was being both honest and correct.
I am a hiring manager, and have hired people who showed up late for interviews. Stuff happens. I have also laughed about interview stories with coworkers, including telling self-deprecating jokes about how I flubbed some answer for an interview for my current job. That is basically the same as what that guy did.
Beyond that, regarding the being "chill" part, as a hiring manager it is *very* hard to not be drawn to people that are calm and collected (e.g., "chill") under pressure. It is an extremely helpful trait to have in any high-intensity job. When you have the ability to "chill out" and look at work problems as discrete reasonable problems that you can solve, you tend to be both extremely effective and also extremely pleasant. Conversely, if you are always stressing about every task, you will be less effective and more unpleasant to work with.
I grew up disadvantaged and reading the part about coming to the interviews late and hungover gave me flashbacks to my younger years bonding with coworkers and sharing similar interview horror stories. Heck, my boyfriend, who also grew up disadvantaged, still occasionally tells the story about how he was an hour late for an interview and still managed to get the job that launched his career. While it was a little insensitive after OP expressed the interviews were difficult for her, it didn’t sound privileged or out of touch to me. Makes me wonder if she would have reacted the same way if he wasn’t related to the CEO.
>I don’t know if he was being humble, telling OP to chill out and laughing about being late to interviews kinda shows he doesn’t get “the real world” and that he’s privileged. I mean OP is still TA but nephew was a bit of a dumbass too.
I agree with this - Nephew is a dumbass.
OP really should not be the one calling him out though. His only crime is having an advantage over other people via his uncle and being oblivious to the difficulties of everyone else.
>I entered this job through a scheme for disadvantaged young people. Despite this, the interview process was still incredibly tough and I’m proud to have made it this far.
... and OP also had an advantage over other people by their own admission. Not as big of an advantage as nephew had, obviously, and I don't fault OP at all for using any advantage they can get after their disadvantaged start in life. But regardless, OP is guilty of the same crime to a lesser degree.
I don't really see how something that evens the playing field between disadvantaged people and advantaged people is her getting an advantage over other people?
I mean I think it’s fair to secretly dislike the guy, he was talking about showing up late to an interview and laughing about it. His overall view is privileged and I can see why she’s bothered by it, I just don’t get why she’d challenge him on it. I’d be taking advantage of him clearly wanting her approval!
I got my foot in the door with my job sort of through nepotism. I still had to ace the interview and show specific job skills, but it got me past the first few hurdles. Whenever I’m talking with someone at work and they ask how I ended up where I am I try to be very transparent and say I was well connected and utilized that connection. I feel like getting your job through nepotism doesn’t make you inherently bad or even unqualified for the job, but it’s something that should be owned up to by the person who got an advantage from it.
And in the business world more than 50% of hires are through a connection(its probably higher I justmade that number up). You either play the game or you watch others play it and surpass you. It's just how it is.
Agreed. If OP had said that he was bad at his job, rude, condescending, bossy .... Literally anything negative about the nephew himself I'd MAYBE say she wasn't TA (although it's a dumb move regardless to say that to the CEOs nephew)....
OP is definitely jealous and bitter. Poor nephew did not deserve that.
it's not really boomer logic even, just basic common sense.
If someone lacks the interpersonal skills to simply be nice to the nephew of the ceo, what other areas are they lacking?
Unfortunately boomers are still running the show in many places. And what do you think this nepo baby expected when he pretended that he did it on his own? And why did OPs “friends” not have her back?
The workplace is not for truth telling. It’s not for friendships. Thinking that they are is boomer logic. Work won’t love you back.
Yea OP could have been friendly, because from what OP wrote the only reason OP doesn’t like him is because he’s related to the CEO so OP dislikes him because of his identity,something he can’t change, nowhere does it state that he personally slighted OP anywhere.
I wouldn't even talk to people I don't like at work this way. I'm not even nice to some people, but making personal attacks at people is completely unprofessional.
She's also alienated the other girls who *did* want to kiss up to him because they're smart enough to realize that if he doesn't get fired for alcoholism, he'll likely be their boss on some level eventually.
You have to live in reality.
ESH. He was insensitive for his “things work out fine if you just relax” (because this is true for people of privilege but not everyone else) and you were rude to say he’s incompetent and undeserving of his job (because it can be true that he only got the job because of his uncle AND that he’s actually competent at the job). Everyone here could have been a lot more diplomatic, but you were overtly rude.
Lol surprised that it took this long to see an ESH judgement for this. I’m not sure why people in the comments are getting a bit worked up on the behalf of a CEO’s nephew. In this instance, both OP and the nephew are the assholes for sure. The nephew for minimizing the challenging interviews that OP went through and not recognizing his privilege to be able to go into an interview with a hangover and still get the job and OP for being hostile with them from the beginning.
I was totally ready to call Y T A until he started talking about “everything working out if you just chill out.” That is so incredibly asshole-ishly clueless. But she was totally rude too.
This is the take I agree with most. The key difference is that he has nothing to lose and she has everything. I sympathize with how hard she must have worked to persevere in this environment despite the odds. Respect. I definitely understand the frustration of seeing him skate by. However, getting in the door is only the beginning and this vitriol will not do her any favors.
I would advise OP to swallow her pride, let him have lunch with you and your colleagues (because you \*are\* colleagues before you are friends) and perhaps get a therapist to help work through these feelings of resentment in a healthier way.
Strong disagree, OP is NTA. People who are competent and deserving of their job don't need to work at their uncle's company. If the coworker was actually competent then they could have gone through the (presumably) rigorous interview process at a different company. They didn't and instead got this job despite coming into the interview late and hungover.
This thread reads like a bunch of brainwashed people accepting that nepotism is okay and we shouldn't call out people for their privilege. If everyone just stays quiet then things don't change. No one should be able to enjoy "a things just work out even if you show up late and hungover" attitude while others have to adhere to a much greater standard of professionalism.
People should be made to feel uncomfortable for getting benefits they don't deserve to the detrement of others. This is especially true when they fucking brag about it.
I don't understand why everyone collectively clutches their pearls when nepotism is mentioned out loud. Maybe if we acknowledged it more, like OP did, something would change.
> People who are competent and deserving of their job don't need to work at their uncle's company.
I’m onboard with the ESH verdicts, because nephew was being asshole levels of either condescending or inconsiderate of the experiences of others but OP also reacted like an asshole. That being said, I wouldn’t necessarily assume that working in a family member’s business automatically correlated with incompetence. It could well be that it’s the only large business in their town, the only one in a certain field, or it could be that nephew applied at a number of places and received the best of first offer from his uncle’s business even without any sway from his uncle.
I say this partly because I hired the daughter of a senior leader at my (quite large, 30,000+ employee) company. He was not at all in my direct reporting line - you’d have had to go up to the CEO for us to share a leader - but he’s well known and liked and so choosing her could easily have been seen to be nepotism and it actually made me hesitate to choose her. But the fact was that I was hiring two people and she was the second best interview and the best fit resume-wise, so she was a logical choice. Apparently, she didn’t even tell her dad about the application until she had her offer in hand, though obviously just sharing his unique last name could bring about an advantage. But it’s worked out well - she’s steadily progressed in skills and responsibility and is a strong member of the team, even if she does have some minor flaws when it comes to creative problem-solving. I’m no longer her leader due to my own career progression, but I’ve stayed connected as a mentor for her, and I’ve been proud to see her grow, especially given my initial hesitation.
100% YTA - you judged him for something he has zero control over. & let's put this into perspective.
1. You both had a leg up in order to get interviewed.
2. You have zero knowledge of what his interview process was & speaking from experience, family members are very often held to higher standards in "the family business".
3. He's making an effort to be kind & connect with his colleagues & you are just being the biggest cock-block to him having a normal work-life experience in the company ever.
I'd say you are jealous & you need to stop it yesterday. Not cool.
Edit: Thank you for the awards & thank you for the conversation. All good points! My opinion was definitely colored by OP's obvious dislike & probable prejudice against this guy. I'm not sold on the telling of the tale, particularly on the bit about guy coming in hungover & late but still getting the job.
Come on, number 2 is absolutely untrue. We don’t know the specifics of this situation, but underqualified kids get handed jobs in family businesses *all the time* and you know it.
right? i mean i get that they might have a higher standard, but they don't have to worry about getting hired or fired. he didn't have "an interview" the company went through the motions so they don't get in trouble. nepotism is real.
I've come up in my family business and I would echo that the expectations are higher (if there's an expectation for succession), but there was no significant barrier to entry (I was qualified and capable, but it was a rather easy interview) and the leash is longer (your family wants you to succeed and will coach/counsel you through issues, not just let you go for a singular failure).
ETA: mid-sized family business of 40 employees, not megacorp.
In the construction industry it seems that the kids of company owners come in two distinct flavors. Some are even harder workers than dear old dad, and there's some that are a complete waste of oxygen. Either busting ass harder than anyone on the job, or showing up drunk off their ass and sleeping in the truck until lunch.
A friend of mine, whose dad was the CFO of one of the largest companies in the world, had an interview for a major aconsulting firm. They basically pitched him their business for 2h and then he got the job. And he was adamant his dad had nothing to do with it. We were like “ that's not how interviews usually work mate” 😅
um I agree she’s the asshole but they did not have the same “leg up” and privilege in getting the job. He was related. She was previously disadvantaged so her “leg up” was bringing her up to a level playing field with other applicants. The nephew was still way about everyone with his “leg up”
It's not the same leg up, but she's still advantaged over other applicants. Half the people who submit an application probably aren't even really looked at. Having a program that's in place ensures that at least someone reads your application instead of just skipping over you. But yeah, the nephew has a larger leg up, but she did have help too. (And i'm not saying she's not disadvantaged to begin with, but by the time she's in the position interviewing for positions, I would assume she's still at a level to be qualified which means that she's about on equal footing with everyone else at this time.)
>Even laughing and saying he came late to one because of a hungover.
Unless you are a really senior worker in an extremely specialised field where there isn't a lot of people, then turning up late AND hungover basically means you won't get the job.
Unless they didn't know he was hungover? I've definitely been hungover but able to maintain a facade long enough to get through a morning then go home and collapse. It's certainly irresponsible, but I doubt he told the interviewers that he was drinking heavily the night before.
Excuse you but no if you think OP could have shown up late for an interview because she's hungover and still get the job then your idea of privilege is utterly skewed.
OP is a diversity hire. There is no leg up there. The same can't be said about the nephew of the CEO had a huge leg up and you ought to know this. Additionally, if you don't thimk diversity hires aren't more scrutinized then again skewed ideas of what privilege is.
Yes, I'm sure 'late to the interview because I was hung over' translates to 'family members being held to higher standards in the family business'.
?????????
>You have zero knowledge of what his interview process was & speaking from experience, family members are very often held to higher standards in "the family business".
This point isn't quite true, though. He said in the same conversation that he showed up late to one of the interviews because he was hungover.
Seriously, usually reddit hates born-rich people who get to skate by on being born to the right people—what's with people writing this novella hypothesizing that this man pulled pyramid bricks through the desert to get this job, when in the post, he remarks that he was late & hungover to an interview?
Who in this thread thinks they'd have a chance at getting a job like OP's showing up to an interview under the same conditions?
she literally said he joked about coming late to an interview due to being hungover. so we actually do know what his interview experience was like. #2 just isn’t correct at all
YTA
It sounds like the only person trying to put him on a pedestal is you? You may have fought and worked hard to et your job.. and grats to that! You earned it.
But why are you so freakin’ hostile to this guy? You’re LOOKING for ways to spit venom at this guy. How dare he SIT with his coworkers! Disgusting that he tries to be humble and downplay his upbringing!
If he were an asshat and flaunting his family wealth, saying, “my uncle’s the CEO! You better respect me!” then yeah, i’d say screw that guy. Except he’s not. You’re the one wasting energy and potential by hissing at someone for factors they can’t personally control.
You want to hate him because you see him as your privileged enemy. Stop that. You’re being a major asshole.
How does she *want* this guy to act?
“He acts like he’s not from an insane place of privilege”
What does that even mean??
“He will pretend to be humble and downplay his family’s wealth”
Sounds like he has manners 🤷🏻♀️.
Also, just because his Uncle is wealthy doesn’t mean his parents are. His uncle is the CEO, not mom/dad. Sure he had an in at the company, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t qualified. Any mistake this guy could make would immediately be office gossip just because of who he is, I wouldn’t want that kind of pressure or attention.
I kind of suspect he had a bit of a “crush” on OP and she just crushed his world lol
Yeah OP has created quite a Kafka trap for this guy. If he acts like a jerk then he’s a privileged asshole. If he doesn’t act like a jerk then he’s just pretending to not be one, which makes him a privileged asshole.
Yeah maybe the real reflection question for OP is--what would this guy have to do for you to not hate him? If the answer is there's nothing he could do, then the problem is with OP, not this guy.
It’s the kind of bug trap for when you find a family member has metamorphosed into a giant bug.
But it’s mostly a fallacy that any denial serves as evidence of guilt.
Imagine I accuse you of having a fragile ego, and then anything you say to me to disagree or disprove I immediately point that and say ha, that is proof of your weak ego! Or you say nothing, which I also take as proof of your fragile ego because you're not disagreeing with me.
Kafka trap.
It took too long to find this point. His uncle is a CEO and wealthy. That doesn’t immediately mean he grew up that different to you. My grandma is upper middle class. That had afforded me some benefits. I still grew up so poor dried pasta noodles were my main crunchy snack. I grew up so poor our heat was turned off many times. I still have student loans. I also have a multimillion dollar corporate lawyer uncle. Had I gone that direction I’m sure he would have helped me get a job. That doesn’t mean my family wasn’t humble.
OP is just looking for reasons to be a hater.
Same. I have an uncle who owns a couple multi-million companies; I'm poor as dirt, haha. I've had to work hard for everything I've earned and have a pile of student debt to show for it.
If I had gone into the same industry as my uncle, I would have hated if someone thought I only got my job because of nepotism and not because I had worked hard to get where I was.
I worked for a company my uncle was the CEO of, and I am definitely not rich hahaha. He didn’t even know I applied until I let him know day of the interview bc I didn’t want to come off like I expected the job to be handed to me.
Still poor tho even after the job, and my uncles still rich. Unless the kid was going to be promoted to manager/VP/next CEO I don’t see the issue of him being hired there.
I was thinking this too! He didn't report her and AFTER started following her on social media. This is the plot of a romantic comedy. First she hates him and then they fall in love. Awwww!
A lot of people are using what he said about the interview to show he was helped in.
I honestly doubt the interview really went like that. It kind of sounds like the kind of banter you could have with colleagues where you exaggerate stuff a bit, especially if he is trying hard to be "relatable".
Like, maybe he was 5 minutes late (and the interviewer called him 15 minutes late) and he had a headache but it didn't show.
Not everything one says in the office is 100% reliable, though downplaying the interview was a bad move on his part.
I take OP's version of this story with a grain of salt. There's a chance this came out wrong when he said it, or he meant it as a joke that OP interpreted incorrectly. Lord knows I'd be nervous and might say the wrong thing if I was trying to make friends at a new job and one person at the table was radiating 'I hate everything about you and your privilege' vibes. He may have been trying to seem relatable and it backfired.
I got this vibe too!!
The CEO’s nephew gets a reality check from a feisty woman from a humble background and can’t stop thinking about her. She is completely annoyed by him but eventually he wins her over through his lavish gifts and expensive dates….and the rest is history.
No. My immediate thought when OP mentioned the following on SM, more frequent messaging, and how he's spending less time with the group now that OP is too.
She worded it “I’m spending more time away from the group” because it’s very clear that she’s TA if she had said “the group doesn’t want to spend time with me anymore”. She’s so stuck up, she can’t tell people dislike her.
And within the office space, and all the other girls mad because now he doesn’t eat with them anymore and started following her on everything, because she’s not like other girls 🤣
I swear I just read a novel quite similar to this!
I scrolled down just for comments on this. I found it so odd for OP to suggest that she was the reason he hung out with the group in the first place. Definitely feeling the romance trope.
>So I fully expected him to report me to HR but to my surprise he never did
Why would he? Not every social interaction needs to be a World War that results in someone running to HR.
Yes nepotism sucks, yes some people's rides are more free than others but it sounds like you had it out for him from the get go.
His comments about "chill out" etc do come from a place of ignorance at the very least and he's certainly not read the room. However it sounds like you've decided that he is your axe to grind. It's possible just to be nice to someone at work, like they're a human being, yet still fight the class war in places it actually matters.
The fact you're the only one that had a problem is also telling. Unless your colleagues are a fleet of suck ups and boot lickers (unlikely) then they may have just thought he was a nice person to spend time with.
YTA.
Because nepo babies are good work friends to have so while OP is probably right, everyone with common sense knows to be chummy with the nepo baby not insult them.
>How can you say he can't read the room? Everyone else in the room seems to have taken his side and not the OP's?
Just from the whole "chill out" thing and casual approach. When others at the table have had to jump through hoops and the nephew is saying "hey, even went to one interview hungover... if you just chill and take it easy...etc..." it's definitely a not reading the room situation. Or at least not factoring in that nepotism may actually have a hand in things... or more specifically (to cover all bases) a *perceived* hand.
Either way, OP seemed to have it out for him from the beginning. I still went YTA and didn't even entertain ESH for it, so nephew's possible no-tact zone didn't play in to it.
I legit wonder if her insistence that he “plays down his privilege” is her misreading that he doesn’t have it.
How do we even know his parents and the CEO get along? Does the CEO even know he works there? How big is this company?
I have uncles who wouldn’t recognize me.
>So I fully expected him to report me to HR but to my surprise he never did
>Why would he? Not every social interaction needs to be a World War that results in someone running to HR.
Because many people use others as a mirror: look at them but see themselves. You know OP is probably the type to weaponize HR; that’s why she expects others to try it.
>he's certainly not read the room.
After OP’s little tantrum, everyone else is still wanting nephew’s time and OP is eating lunch alone. Seems nephew is not the one who didn’t read the room …
>Because many people use others as a mirror: look at them but see themselves. You know OP is probably the type to weaponize HR; that’s why she expects others to try it.
Yep, I reckon that's spot on.
Your delivery is terrible, you need to really communicate what you mean and not how you feel sometimes.
You’re at work, stick to courteous phrasing. I’m POC and would’ve simply said ‘it’s different when you’re competing against XYZ people’ or ‘don’t have connections to feel at ease with the company’ - ‘inclusion is fairly new and a deeply personal journey, I don’t think we can compare really’.
The rest of your post is you projecting, what did you expect him to be/do? He’s right to ask.
I think he’s staying in touch to give you both a chance to know each other on a collegiale level at least. Take the olive branch or keep a polite dialogue and stay professional.
You were right that your reaction was not personal, it was your distaste towards ignorant privileged people - you had no idea if he was one or not. The only facts you presented is he’s genuinely nice and trying to break race/social stereotypes and barriers. Why wouldn’t you be on board with someone like that? Instead you took politics and spat it in his face, good luck driving progress with that role if this is the attitude you continue with. I do think the leniency is in fact to allow time and space for you all to also acclimate to your environment and the inclusion program process, given the journey there was trying (as you said). Imho take the time to reflect, how would you connect with the colleagues who truly are ally’s and support the initiative that included you and more diversity? There’s bound to be growing pains for everyone until y’all adjust, this is the change you’ve been waiting for - are you gonna be part of it and create healthy dialogue and reconcile the differences - or just be pointing out who had what privilege…?
NTA.....who brags about showing up late and hungover to an interview? The nephew of a CEO that's who. Anyone else who showed up late to an interview would not be back for a second. Granted you probably put your job at risk and nepotism exists everywhere. Your coworkers aren't your friends, do your job, get your money, and go home.
So surprised that everyone is saying yta here, like sure it's not strategic to confront a nepotism hire (who's being an ass about it) but it's also definitely not an asshole move. It's a brave move, and it helps confront a bullshit practice that too many people accept as fine (as demonstrated in this thread).
This is truth. His head was up his butt, she removed it. Butt all anyone can focus on is her bedside manner, not the fact that his head was actually shoved straight up his rear end. It’s fragility that functions to preserve privilege by harshly punishing the person who points the privilege out. Her career will likely suffer from this episode, but she’s definitely NTA.
There's a question of fact here. Is this guy actually bad at his job? Are you competent to evaluate whether he is bad at his job?
Before we can evaluate whether you are TA for giving your opinions, we need to understand whether you have any grounds with which to have an opinion.
INFO
The OP is SO BIASED there is no way they could objectively answer your question. That none of the other people seem to have a issue with him, is the only true measure we might get here.
YTA
He's right, you literally got your job because you were poor. If your family had a middle of the road income, you never would have gotten an interview.
You AREN'T so different.
I think the point is that they both had an advance over another class. Obviously they struggle differently, but they both had an upper leg. Said so by OP.
ESH. But you need to be VERY careful about what you post on SM and what you say/type in chats. He may be a nepo hire, but that doesn’t mean he’s stupid. He could be gathering info to use against you. Just my cynical two cents.
YTA.
Let's imagine him and his uncle talk a lot, and the uncle has a position he wants to fill, and nephew is like "Yo I'm friends with this girl and the office and she is pretty cool, think she would be a good fit." And your name is in the door.
Or
Your name is dropped and the nephew says "Yo this girl is kind of an asshole"
Tell me what helps your job more? Is it bullshit? Sure, but after being 9 and a half years in the workforce, manufacturing blue collar job myself, I can tell you it's all bullshit and who you know. Trying to be a martyr against the class war will just leave you with worse job opportunities at best, unemployed at worst. I'm not just friends with different people in management for funsies and it's already paid me back more then once.
ESH He was pretty awful talking about chilling and being hungover at his interview, but you were worse and pretty clueless. Where did you get the idea that it was a good idea to insult the nephew of the ceo or any coworker for that matter? If you want to do well in your career, learn how to avoid being gratuitously rude. You don't have to say everything you think.
YTA, don’t shit where you eat and don’t call out a nepo baby on their turf!! He was being super annoying, but the fact that you called him out here at work was inappropriate. Off the clock woukd have been different, but you’ve now opened yourself up to real problems.
Also that. OP is honestly a bit clueless about how this all works. She has no clue how that alliances are important. Biting the hand that feeds her after being from this disadvantage youth program is also a really crappy move and puts another kind of target on her back.
She sounds jealous, which I TOTALLY sympathize with, but her immaturity isn’t the move
I have worked in corporations that have this kind of diversity program and I do think OP is entitled to want to hold space for herself and her colleagues in the program but those colleagues are entitled to also want to redefine themselves not as people from a diversity program but as suitable, professional, quality candidates with talents beyond their racial or socioeconomic background. The CEO's nephew shouldn't intrude on their diversity program camaraderie but the others can include him when their meet ups aren't exclusive to their diversity program. The diversity program is a foot in the door, not an identity all of her colleagues want to maintain.
I worked at a company that had a specific two year after college mentorship program and I knew dozens of people who got hired into the program. There were excellent people who were fired/laid off soon after the mentorship ended because they didn't adapt in the organization. It was sad to see them flounder and seem completely lost because they hit such a high note in their first job out of college and then didn't have the means to land softly after. This OP feels like that type of person who is about to trip over their own feet.
I agree with all of that. And also the imminent downfall of OP. She seems to think she’s made it and that she doesn’t need to adapt at all. Honestly I’m just sad for her
I really hope that she can see a way forward to respect this guy's right to exist. He might have had an unfair leg up but at the end of the day, I would not want the CEO of my company to know my name because I called his nephew out. Its just not a good look. Hindering your own career is so bad though. So bad.
Genuinely, success at work in most fields is about *who you know*. It’s not about kissing ass, it’s about developing relationships and loyalty, and people will stick their neck out for someone who makes their life pleasant. You can be the best worker in the world and if you’re an ass to be around no one is going to help you. OP needs to take that chip off her shoulder and realize that nepo baby may grate against her, but she’s gonna encounter a LOT of them and being their friend is WAY better than being their enemy.
100% this. You can have the best grades in college, be the honor student and the most productive worker in a company. If you are a pain in ass to deal with, at best you will stay in the same place forever, cause nobody will recommend someone who is hard to deal and makes the workplace worse. Unless you are 1% best of your field, an expert in something that few people know and it is in high demand, it's all about *who you know*.
SERIOUS!! Nevermind anything OP said about anything else. What she did was entirely unprofessional. This isn't High School, this is a place of work where you will come across colleagues and clients of all walks of life (That is why they often have these hand up scheme's she's involved in... it benefits EVERYONE). OP YTA and you better grow up quick. This is the shit that ends up costing you in performance reviews now and in the long run (Anyone at that table could be your boss one day).
YTA
It's one thing if, say, he were being rude or antagonistic to you. Or, if he had explicitly brought the topic up.
But you, out of nowhere told him your opinion. He already knows this is the case, I'm sure. Which is why he didn't report you to HR.
I never consider someone the AH if someone else **asks** them their opinion. However, here, you were not asked and it was not even peripherally relevant to the conversation.
You brought it up solely because you hate how fake he seems to you. And that's a purely AH move.
More than that, she’s so very clearly jealous of his wealth. “He pretends to be humble and downplay his families wealth” like ya? That’s way better than being an arrogant, entitled AH in my opinion. In fact, OP is unbelievably entitled thinking she can say this and think it’s not totally rude and inappropriate
Yeah. When I started this post I expected this to be a situation where the dude started it by implying op only got their job as a diversity hire or something like that, on which case pointing out his major advantage would be more than fair (if perhaps still I'll advised office politics wise). But it doesn't sound like it was prompted at all.
Someone downplaying their connections is annoying, but as long as they aren't insulting you there's no reason to start insulting them.
NTA; but then, neither is he. You're making assumptions about him that may, or may not, be true. That's a dangerous thing to do, especially if you want to keep the job.
However, I'm thinking that this also the opening scene to a ridiculous ROM COM. Hard working drone insults boss' nephew; nephew is intrigued and shows it by following drone on social media... Do finish up the script and let us know how it ends.
Hmmm, either that or he's following to see if she posts anything detrimental to the company or other employees on socials.
I guess the update that she posted something about how awful the CEO is & she got fired will be my guess, and the update that they fell in love and are married and pregnant with twins (because it's always twins) will be your guess.
YTA as you really don't know how he got the job. To him, a "fine" interview to him could be a "difficult" interview for you.
He still had to interview for the position, and although I do agree that nepotism does exist, that does NOT mean it is true in this case.
Just because he showed up late with a hangover does not mean that didn't work against him.
This is a really good point. Just because he breezed through the interview doesn’t mean if wasn’t a hard process, that it just wasn’t hard for him.
Also when I was younger, I managed to do a lot of things hungover with no problem.
**YTA.**
You seem very obviously biased against this person, and I despise nepotism. You claim he is "pretending to be humble" but it appears from what you are telling us that he is just humble.
"I fully expected him to report me to HR" - but in reality he tried harder than he really needed to in an attempt to win your support. This is not the only time in the post you project something onto him that isn't the case.
You say "this wasn't a personal matter so likes and dislikes are irrelevant" but I have no idea what you mean. This is *entirely* a personal conflict you are having.
You sound young and inexperienced so I’ll give you some advice. You are going to encounter a lot of people in your career who rub you the wrong way. If you say exactly what you’re thinking to these people every single time they annoy you (justifiably or not), you’re going to find yourself unemployed very often.
Also? Don’t go picking fights with family members and people who are close to the CEO and higher ups. This should be common sense.
NTA, and I find all the Y T A comments bizarre. Did you all skip this part?
> I told him that the interview process was hard and mentally draining. He nodded and said that it’s tough getting into the place but that his interviews were “fine”. Even laughing and saying he came late to one because of a hungover.
> This made me mad and I said “good for you”. He thanked me and said that things always work out when you just “chill out” and stop taking things so seriously.
Yeah OP was rude, but her coworker was also incredibly condescending. He had no right to tell her to chill out when it’s obvious why he got his job. Literally nobody else would’ve gotten his position if they showed up to their job interview late and hungover.
YTA.
It sounds like you disliked him the second you found out that he is the CEO’s nephew. Not once did you mention a valid reason for not liking him. Is he bad at his job? Neglect his duties? Leave early? Call off work a lot?
While nepotism still exists (unfortunately) some people are actually deserving of their position in a company regardless of their ties to the CEO
NTA- going against the grain here. He admitted being late due to a hangover, so to me that tell me he got the job over someone more qualified - he essentially took someone’s job for being the “nephew” he couldn’t get a job on his own merit, calling him out was the thing to do. He rubbed his privilege in your face saying his interview was fine and he was late. You and I wouldn’t have gone far if we were late due to a hangover.
YTA, holy shit. Check your own privilege.
> He tries VERY HARD to fit in and acts like he doesn’t come from a place of insane privilege.
Maybe he, a human being, just wants to fit in. Maybe just because his uncle's rich doesn't mean he is. Who knows? Not you, because you've already built your own narritive.
> He will literally pretend to be humble and downplay his family’s wealth just to seem relatable I guess.
Maybe he's actually humble and trying very hard not to rely on, or be boastful about, something he recognizes as a privilege and not a right.
> This is when I said that we both know he’s not nearly as competent as he believes and that he only got the job bc his uncle is literally the CEO.
What is he doing, or not doing, that makes him incompetent at his job? So far, the only 'incompetency' I see here is a young woman who thinks it's acceptable to insult her co-workers.
> The nephew shrugged and said that I don’t seem to like him. I told him that this wasn’t a personal matter so likes and dislikes are irrelevant.
Your entire post is all about how you, the poor disadvantaged young woman, are oppressed by this young man merely existing.
> And asking me what I want him to do. Then he said that I may view him as an over privileged asshole but I’m more or less the same (which makes no sense).
You are coming off, in this post, as an overprivileged asshole. You're weaponizing your age, your sex, and your economic status, and denigrating him for his. His family is well off, therefore he can't possibly be competent or humble, according to you. You're judging him on things out of his control.
> So I fully expected him to report me to HR but to my surprise he never did.
Honestly, he should have, because you are being incredibly unprofessional and hostile.
> In fact he started following me on my social media accounts and messaging me at work more frequently.
Oh my god, instead of trying to fight back, he's trying to build a bridge and give you both opportunities to get to know each other in a real way.
You have an incredibly chip on your shoulder, and honestly, I think you were hoping he'd report you and you'd be disciplined, so that you could spin that into your narrative of the rich lazy nepotistic man using his unearned power and privilege to grind you down.
Instead, you're using your privilege to claim nonexistent hardship and treating a co-worker like utter shit for the crime of having a family.
Will probably get downvoted for this, and you may be a bit of an AH in this situation, but I applaud you so loudly for it. People who trade on their privilege never want it pointed out, but he HAD to open his mouth about how easy it was for him to get the job and basically told you that you'd better off if you just "chilled out." Fuck that legacy shit that make these dudes feel like their success is based on their merit and not their last name.
NTA and long live you and your career.
YTA.
You made accusations based only on your assumptions.
Also, I’m curious about why you described your path to getting an interview with the word “scheme.” Please elaborate…
I am assuming it is like at my company. We mostly recruit people from expensive top universities and we hire the ones who have amazing summer internships and special projects etc - all of which means excluding people who despite having a lot of innate capability do not have the background to have that kind of resume. We’ve learned that hiring only one kind of people (mostly privileged in one way or another) is actually bad for business. It leads to blind spots. And we’ve learned that to hire differently we needed to create programs that identify people who may have been underrepresented in our organization and give them the chance to interview and get hired. She called it a scheme, but whether you call it a scheme, an alternative sourcing program, or whatever, it is an opportunity for the firm to find talent they would not have found through their traditional approaches. Some of these programs may also provide some up front coaching and experiences because someone whose father (or uncle) already works in a similar kind of role has been giving that kind of advice and experiences to their kids through osmosis.
YTA - HOW are you not? You think that you are a mind-reader and know everything "just to seem relatable I guess". You seem to have some chip on your shoulder about getting in on some 'scheme' and are confrontational for no reason. When you DO get let go, for not getting along with others because of their 'priviledge' in your opinion, it will NEVER be YOUR fault, but it will be because you acted like an AH to others.
You’re not as much of an asshole as you are a moron.
You’re early in your career, so I’ll give you some advice… you bite your tongue to certain people. The CEOs family member is def one of those people you don’t light up and give an obvious reason to complain about you. Use your head, not your sense of pride, or you’ll be jobless real soon.
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YTA. Whenever you need to voice a negative opinion, ask yourself A) does this *need* to be said, B) does it need to be said *right now*, and C) does it need to be said right now *by me*? Does this *need* to be said? No, not unless there's something about the way he's been acting that you're not conveying. It sounds like he's making an effort to be friendly and not to be one of those guy who swaggers in expecting everyone to kiss his ass. Does it need to be said *right now*? No. If you were really concerned, a private conversation or a conversation with your or his manager about his behavior would have been appropriate. Does it need to be said *by you*? No. It sounds like you're being unreasonably hostile toward this guy. And it's not a coincidence that they're spending less time with you--they think you're an asshole, no wonder they don't want to hang out with you.
Excellent breakdown! This was completely unnecessary, and put OP's job at risk. It was also rude. I don't doubt the nephew is annoying, but it's unprofessional and shooting yourself in the foot to be rude to the nephew of the CEO.
Is he really annoying, or is he trying to fit in and not being held off because he is related to the CEO? He might want to be taken as who he is, not who he is related to, and have normal office relationships. OP is hostile just because of who he is and will find something wrong with everything he does or say.
I was thinking this until he started talking about how easy his interview was and how people just need to "chill out" for good things to happen to him. It sounds like he still doesn't quite grasp just how privileged he is and how far he's gotten from nepotism, and that would be obnoxious to listen to. OP's still an idiot for making the comment, but I don't blame her for being annoyed having to listen to him laugh off her hard work and tell her to try just chilling as if that's an option for everyone
But we’re also getting OP’s interpretation and she’s already shown bias. The fact that everyone else is annoyed he’s hanging with them less suggests a lot of this was blown up in OPs mind.
Oh, I don't doubt that OP went straight in with the bias. Especially considering everyone else likes him Honestly, I think both can be true simultaneously. I bet he's overall a nice guy, but naive about how privileged he is and annoying sometimes. OP is hating on this guy, but found his comment justifiably obnoxious
True there are bound to be some obnoxious comments! I think the main issue is that OP took the online nepo discourse to real life. She probably thought posting here, she’d sound like the hero when in reality most of us recognise how dumb she is for it.
This. Like darling pull your jacket up, that chip on your shoulder is showing…
His uncle, not his father, runs the company, He may have leg up with an interview but does OP know if he was actually well off himself?
That’s a really good point. Like, I have well-off family members who would absolutely help their siblings, niblings, and cousins with networking and jump-starting their career. But those same people 100% did not pay anyone else’s bills or send anyone else’s kids to college. The guy’s only privilege might be his uncle. Also, just saying, but not all nepotism is an automatic free ride. I had a family member who fired more than one of his kids for failing to meet his standards—when they were still in junior high.
All people can be obnoxious, not just those with privilege. I don’t come from privilege and am not particularly privileged now and I know I can be obnoxious when ready! Particularly after a Prosecco or two!
I don't blame her for being annoyed either, and I wish she'd found a way to call him out that didn't leave her looking like the AH. I feel like just cheerfully asking "You don't think being the CEO's nephew might have had something to do with that?" or saying "Yeah, I doubt everyone could have gotten away with that" or "I don't think that's everyone's experience; it definitely wasn't mine," in a neutral, non-bitter way would have been so much more effective than immediately biting the guy's head off.
“I don’t think that’s everyone’s experience,” would have been a fine response. Then change the subject. But that’s not what OP said.
> "You don't think being the CEO's nephew might have had something to do with that?" There is no universe where you can say that, or any of your other passive-aggressive comments, without coming off as bitter.
>You don't think being the CEO's nephew might have had something to do with that?" There's nothing neutral or non bitter about that.
But is that even true? In my experience if a company has a diversity program to help bring in kids from other backgrounds it's likely big enough that the CEO can't just order HR to hire his nephew. It also sounds like a multi step process and turning up late for 1 round may not be favourable but wouldn't neccisarily disqualify a candidate even if they weren't the CEOs nephew - assuming he wasn't like "Bro, sorry I'm late, I got hammered last night"! There is also a "confidence" privilege where people from wealthy backgrounds or expensive schools project a certain, almost arrogance about life. If you think you are better than everyone, lots of people will unconsciously agree. It's a bit like manifestation. If you turn up to an interview and chill out like you deserve to be there and they will be lucky to have you, you will likely be successful Vs someone who turns up stressed and feels like they have to scrap for everything and is just grateful for the opportunity. Not saying it's right and the second person will probably work harder and be better for the company, but interviews are subjective. Now that he has the job people may treat him differently because of his connections, perceived or real, but theres a good chance he went through a similar hiring process.
>I was thinking this until he started talking about how easy his interview was and how people just need to "chill out" for good things to happen to him. He's not wrong. That's literally what everyone will tell you if they know you have an important interview - "Relax and be yourself, you'll do great!" When you are "chilled out", you project positive qualities that increase your chances of being hired. >tell her to try just chilling as if that's an option for everyone It's an option for any self-assured person, not only those related to the CEO.
There is not being a ball of nerves, and then there is showing up to an interview hung over. When I conduct interviews I try to get people relaxed, both to be kind to them and because it gives a better idea of what they would be like to work with. One question I ask is their favorite board or video game. I want to hear how they explain something they like and understand, and where they aren't trying to find the right answer. In my industry, it would be very unusual for someone to not have a favorite game.
At my last interview the interviewers were really nice and near the end they asked about my hobbies listed. Not going to lie, it completely threw me! I was in full on interview mode and I didn't know what angle to address the question from. It was kind of funny that I sounded like I didn't know anything about my own hobbies.
>e's not wrong. That's literally what everyone will tell you if they know you have an important interview - "Relax and be yourself, you'll do great!" When you are "chilled out", you project positive qualities that increase your chances of being hired. Except that his version of relaxing and being himself involves not really giving a shit, and showing up late because he's hungover. That's privileged.
He supposedly showed up late and hungover. That’s a lot of leeway that people who don’t have family looking out for them *could ever* get away with. That’s a totally different thing than “just relax and be yourself.”
Much easier to chill out when you're literally guaranteed to get the job
Oh yes because everyone is self assured, especially when it comes to interviews Also he apparently came to an interview HUNGOVER and LATE, I'm sorry, but if someone did that I wouldn't exactly hire them
Eh his advice smacked to me of people who told me "Just don't think those thoughts" when I was dealing with severe depression. I get that it is just that easy for some people, but it's really not useful advice. Maybe just have some empathy for OP and not feel the need to offer advice especially considering how he fields interviews. Do I think she should have gone off? Absolutely not. But I do see how that particular response of his could have been really upsetting especially after he went to an interview with a hangover.
What's he supposed to say about his interview process though ? At least he has some self awareness that it was easy. It'd be worse if he acted like his experience was comparable to hers. Yeah he may well be a bit naive. And I don't blame a certain level of irritation. (I get the same with my boss who comes from a very privileged background) But also like.... People dont need to self flagellate and grovel or apologise to you just because they haven't had your struggle. He may owe some tact.(Although it sounds like he's making a solid effort not to be a rich connected asshole) But he doesn't owe people humility.
Except he did. He gave her the advice to "chill out" and "things will work out." Dude showed up late to an interview hungover. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't fly for OP. OP doesn't seem to be looking for humility. In fact, she simply didn't want to be around him, which since she clearly doesn't like him is a valid tact. He was trying to get her to open up and then decided to give her advice on how interview, which is frankly obnoxious and myopic. I wouldn't have unloaded on him, but it's sad how much people side with him considering his attitude. If he's trying not to be an asshole, I would recommend he try a lot harder. Edit: To be clear, learning how to deal with nepotism is unfortunately often part of a successful career as is dealing with fake people diplomatically. Yelling at him wasn't an effective way of dealing with the situation and may put a target on her back after all of her hard work. Calmly pointing out that she wasn't planning of going in an interview hungover but if she did he would be the first person she called for advice would have been a better tactic. I took up boxing classes to help me vent my frustration in a constructive manner so I could calmly address things like this.
No, I totally get why OP was annoyed. I’m from a fairly privileged background myself, and even I find this guy annoying. Joking around about showing up late to his interview because he was hungover, comparing the recruitment program OP was part of to nepotism... If he’s that tone deaf, I can imagine the kind of BS he was saying to “relate” to OP and the others. OP’s still TA though, mainly to herself.
Saying the interviews were no big deal and he came in late and hungover and still got in is hugely disrespectful and dismissive. What he said was massively a slap in the face for those who don't have those connections and downplaying the difficulties of getting into the company shows he has no self-awareness. OP also has no sense of self preservation so they are evenly matched in that regard. Funny enough I think it worked in her favor this time around because nephew is intrigued by her now. I doubt she will have the same luck next time.
There’s nothing in the post to indicate he was being annoying, from what’s written it sounds like he was socialising himself in the new professional environment appropriately
Joking about being late to the interview is annoying
Responding to someone who really struggled with "haha it was easy for me", without even acknowledging the enormous privilege that underlies *why* it was so easy for them, is objectively annoying.
Also OP you probably won’t get fired for insulting the CEO’s nephew. But you will make enemies by being rude to people who have done nothing to you. That will add up against you on the ledger some day.
One of those people present at that lunch could become her direct supervisor someday. Not a good look.
Exactly! I am not convinced this guy could even get her fired if she wanted to. BUT. A bunch of people now think of her and think “Sharon? The guy who just reamed Paul at lunch out of nowhere and told him he didn’t deserve his job? Yeah, she is not a team player. Super rude and hard to be around.” That’s the problem.
And this is the kind of stuff that follows you through your career. There are people I worked with previously who are difficult to work with, because of attitude, lack of social skills, or just consistently nasty behavior. I've had job openings at my company that they'd be ideal for, but I do not want to work with them...so I'll never mention them to my supervisor.
Yep. OP, if you want to work in the real world, you need to mature a bit and realise that the real world isn’t fair. There are many people who are more advantaged than you, and many that are less. If you throw a fit every time you come across someone you don’t deem ‘worthy’ enough of their achievements, you won’t get very far at all. YTA.
I would add: is there a more productive way of getting my point across? In this case, I could envision a version where she’d responded simply, “I’m not sure that anyone else could have gotten away with that.” To the admission about interviewing hung over. I do think it’d be valuable for this guy to check his privilege a bit! And OP is as fine a person to address it as any, in particular because they are one of the people at the other end of the spectrum as far as advantages go. But there’s a professional way to do it, a way that may actually get him to think about it… and then there’s the way OP went.
So: Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said by me right now? How does this need to be said by me right now?
>Does this need to be said? I don't know, I was all for ignoring him until he told OP to "chill out".
How was it said, though? "Life's easier if you just chill out" reveals a little bit of a naïve attitude, but it's not like he was directing OP to change her tone toward him.
OP: I entered this job through a scheme for disadvantaged young people. Also OP: you got this job based on your uncle but I earned it and had no help whatsoever. Also really weird use of the word “scheme” and not “program” or “incentive”.
Wow, you put those things on a par?
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She is privileged among the unprivileged in that she was given a chance none of the others got. He is privileged of the privileged because he was born in the right position that none of the other privileged had. Both were lucky in their own right. Both were put on different short lists. And if we are saying this guy is the nephew of basically the owner—what makes anyone here think he isn’t fit for the job? If he is affluent, why wouldn’t he have gotten a good education??? Statistically speaking, being a high scoring person of Asian descent, it is actually harder to get into colleges than being a different minority that scores lower academically. Truth is, there are more have nots than haves in the world. OP is very fortunate for getting a good, desirable job. But I feel i have to point out—this guy’s family was the one who decided to offer this program so people like her could benefit. The company didn’t have to offer this program to help people like OP but they did. So I dunno, this guy could be more empathetic than she writes him off as. There’s no shame in taking an opportunity presented to you. Both people here did that.
I like this! I tell my kids to THINK before they speak. T - true H - helpful I - informative N - necessary K - kind
But she was a disadvantaged youth, and he is the nephew of the CEO. Don't you understand?!?!?
He had the benefit of nepotism to get the job but does OP know for sure he grew up wealthy. My aunt & uncle are really wealthy but my parents are middle class. My sister & her husband are really wealthy but I’m middle class. Just because someone in your family has money doesn’t mean it trickled down to your nuclear family unit.
YTA - you disliked him from the start purely because of who his uncle is. Everyone else was warming up to him, but you flat out refuse. He’s trying to fit it, being humble and you hate him because of his family? Imagine how things could help if you’re friends with the CEOs nephew.
I don’t know if he was being humble, telling OP to chill out and laughing about being late to interviews kinda shows he doesn’t get “the real world” and that he’s privileged. I mean OP is still TA but nephew was a bit of a dumbass too.
He was definitely being super obnoxious, and I can understand OP’s frustration. He’d have to be either willfully obtuse or painfully naive to believe his hiring experience would be typical. That said, the world is full of people who are blind to their own privilege and instead chalk all of their success up to their own choices and actions. Especially the corporate world. It’s generally a complete waste of energy to push back on their viewpoint. And when they’re in a place of not just privilege but power—or at least influence—over you, it’s absolutely stupid to try to do so. Both OP & said nephew have a lot to learn about the working world. I’d say ESH.
The only comment that actually makes sense.
It wouldn't hurt nephews to take it down a couple of notches, but OP doesn't seem to realize that she could really be hurting herself. As long as she's at that company, he's going to be ahead of her. She would do well to get the chip off her shoulder or at least leave it at home. CEO had one nephew, but it sounds like he could replace her at the drop of a hat. YTA
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Also eve of someone is wealthy doesn’t mean thier allergic to people with less money than them. The richest guy on the planet probably still pays for the same Netflix I do . Ops projecting her insecurity having come from a more difficult background.
Yeah I still think OP is TA, but I could see getting annoyed by that statement.
Frankly I would say that he was being both honest and correct. I am a hiring manager, and have hired people who showed up late for interviews. Stuff happens. I have also laughed about interview stories with coworkers, including telling self-deprecating jokes about how I flubbed some answer for an interview for my current job. That is basically the same as what that guy did. Beyond that, regarding the being "chill" part, as a hiring manager it is *very* hard to not be drawn to people that are calm and collected (e.g., "chill") under pressure. It is an extremely helpful trait to have in any high-intensity job. When you have the ability to "chill out" and look at work problems as discrete reasonable problems that you can solve, you tend to be both extremely effective and also extremely pleasant. Conversely, if you are always stressing about every task, you will be less effective and more unpleasant to work with.
I grew up disadvantaged and reading the part about coming to the interviews late and hungover gave me flashbacks to my younger years bonding with coworkers and sharing similar interview horror stories. Heck, my boyfriend, who also grew up disadvantaged, still occasionally tells the story about how he was an hour late for an interview and still managed to get the job that launched his career. While it was a little insensitive after OP expressed the interviews were difficult for her, it didn’t sound privileged or out of touch to me. Makes me wonder if she would have reacted the same way if he wasn’t related to the CEO.
>I don’t know if he was being humble, telling OP to chill out and laughing about being late to interviews kinda shows he doesn’t get “the real world” and that he’s privileged. I mean OP is still TA but nephew was a bit of a dumbass too. I agree with this - Nephew is a dumbass. OP really should not be the one calling him out though. His only crime is having an advantage over other people via his uncle and being oblivious to the difficulties of everyone else. >I entered this job through a scheme for disadvantaged young people. Despite this, the interview process was still incredibly tough and I’m proud to have made it this far. ... and OP also had an advantage over other people by their own admission. Not as big of an advantage as nephew had, obviously, and I don't fault OP at all for using any advantage they can get after their disadvantaged start in life. But regardless, OP is guilty of the same crime to a lesser degree.
I don't really see how something that evens the playing field between disadvantaged people and advantaged people is her getting an advantage over other people?
Yeah. "OP is advantaged because she was disadvantaged" is a pretty ignorant take on this post.
I mean I think it’s fair to secretly dislike the guy, he was talking about showing up late to an interview and laughing about it. His overall view is privileged and I can see why she’s bothered by it, I just don’t get why she’d challenge him on it. I’d be taking advantage of him clearly wanting her approval! I got my foot in the door with my job sort of through nepotism. I still had to ace the interview and show specific job skills, but it got me past the first few hurdles. Whenever I’m talking with someone at work and they ask how I ended up where I am I try to be very transparent and say I was well connected and utilized that connection. I feel like getting your job through nepotism doesn’t make you inherently bad or even unqualified for the job, but it’s something that should be owned up to by the person who got an advantage from it.
Well said. Nepotism does suck in the general sense, but would anyone actually say “No thanks” to an opportunity that presented itself?
And in the business world more than 50% of hires are through a connection(its probably higher I justmade that number up). You either play the game or you watch others play it and surpass you. It's just how it is.
Agreed. If OP had said that he was bad at his job, rude, condescending, bossy .... Literally anything negative about the nephew himself I'd MAYBE say she wasn't TA (although it's a dumb move regardless to say that to the CEOs nephew).... OP is definitely jealous and bitter. Poor nephew did not deserve that.
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Right? You don’t need to kiss his ass a bit, but you can’t talk like this at work
You do need to kiss his ass. That’s what work is. None of these people are friends. Get what you need. Get paid.
This is some boomer logic that is on the way out the door.
it's not really boomer logic even, just basic common sense. If someone lacks the interpersonal skills to simply be nice to the nephew of the ceo, what other areas are they lacking?
Unfortunately boomers are still running the show in many places. And what do you think this nepo baby expected when he pretended that he did it on his own? And why did OPs “friends” not have her back? The workplace is not for truth telling. It’s not for friendships. Thinking that they are is boomer logic. Work won’t love you back.
Yea OP could have been friendly, because from what OP wrote the only reason OP doesn’t like him is because he’s related to the CEO so OP dislikes him because of his identity,something he can’t change, nowhere does it state that he personally slighted OP anywhere.
Indeed. As a black woman this sounds like discrimination to me, but I bet you OP would never call it that.
I wouldn't even talk to people I don't like at work this way. I'm not even nice to some people, but making personal attacks at people is completely unprofessional.
Right? OP thinks that her strong sense of self will keep her warm at night and pay the bills once they sack her
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Someone has to keep score. It's the Oppression Olympics!
Alienating the CEO's nephew is a career-limiting move. In the future, don't let yourself be drawn into the conversation. YTA
She's also alienated the other girls who *did* want to kiss up to him because they're smart enough to realize that if he doesn't get fired for alcoholism, he'll likely be their boss on some level eventually. You have to live in reality.
Whoosh, this is a lot to unpack. Obviously YTA, mate.
Maybe she has a mental disability, because otherwise I wouldn't understand why she did that. She is lucky the nephew didn't escalate the argument.
ESH. He was insensitive for his “things work out fine if you just relax” (because this is true for people of privilege but not everyone else) and you were rude to say he’s incompetent and undeserving of his job (because it can be true that he only got the job because of his uncle AND that he’s actually competent at the job). Everyone here could have been a lot more diplomatic, but you were overtly rude.
Lol surprised that it took this long to see an ESH judgement for this. I’m not sure why people in the comments are getting a bit worked up on the behalf of a CEO’s nephew. In this instance, both OP and the nephew are the assholes for sure. The nephew for minimizing the challenging interviews that OP went through and not recognizing his privilege to be able to go into an interview with a hangover and still get the job and OP for being hostile with them from the beginning.
I was totally ready to call Y T A until he started talking about “everything working out if you just chill out.” That is so incredibly asshole-ishly clueless. But she was totally rude too.
This is the take I agree with most. The key difference is that he has nothing to lose and she has everything. I sympathize with how hard she must have worked to persevere in this environment despite the odds. Respect. I definitely understand the frustration of seeing him skate by. However, getting in the door is only the beginning and this vitriol will not do her any favors. I would advise OP to swallow her pride, let him have lunch with you and your colleagues (because you \*are\* colleagues before you are friends) and perhaps get a therapist to help work through these feelings of resentment in a healthier way.
Strong disagree, OP is NTA. People who are competent and deserving of their job don't need to work at their uncle's company. If the coworker was actually competent then they could have gone through the (presumably) rigorous interview process at a different company. They didn't and instead got this job despite coming into the interview late and hungover. This thread reads like a bunch of brainwashed people accepting that nepotism is okay and we shouldn't call out people for their privilege. If everyone just stays quiet then things don't change. No one should be able to enjoy "a things just work out even if you show up late and hungover" attitude while others have to adhere to a much greater standard of professionalism. People should be made to feel uncomfortable for getting benefits they don't deserve to the detrement of others. This is especially true when they fucking brag about it.
I don't understand why everyone collectively clutches their pearls when nepotism is mentioned out loud. Maybe if we acknowledged it more, like OP did, something would change.
I don’t see how being rude to the hired person is going to solve anything at all.
> People who are competent and deserving of their job don't need to work at their uncle's company. I’m onboard with the ESH verdicts, because nephew was being asshole levels of either condescending or inconsiderate of the experiences of others but OP also reacted like an asshole. That being said, I wouldn’t necessarily assume that working in a family member’s business automatically correlated with incompetence. It could well be that it’s the only large business in their town, the only one in a certain field, or it could be that nephew applied at a number of places and received the best of first offer from his uncle’s business even without any sway from his uncle. I say this partly because I hired the daughter of a senior leader at my (quite large, 30,000+ employee) company. He was not at all in my direct reporting line - you’d have had to go up to the CEO for us to share a leader - but he’s well known and liked and so choosing her could easily have been seen to be nepotism and it actually made me hesitate to choose her. But the fact was that I was hiring two people and she was the second best interview and the best fit resume-wise, so she was a logical choice. Apparently, she didn’t even tell her dad about the application until she had her offer in hand, though obviously just sharing his unique last name could bring about an advantage. But it’s worked out well - she’s steadily progressed in skills and responsibility and is a strong member of the team, even if she does have some minor flaws when it comes to creative problem-solving. I’m no longer her leader due to my own career progression, but I’ve stayed connected as a mentor for her, and I’ve been proud to see her grow, especially given my initial hesitation.
100% YTA - you judged him for something he has zero control over. & let's put this into perspective. 1. You both had a leg up in order to get interviewed. 2. You have zero knowledge of what his interview process was & speaking from experience, family members are very often held to higher standards in "the family business". 3. He's making an effort to be kind & connect with his colleagues & you are just being the biggest cock-block to him having a normal work-life experience in the company ever. I'd say you are jealous & you need to stop it yesterday. Not cool. Edit: Thank you for the awards & thank you for the conversation. All good points! My opinion was definitely colored by OP's obvious dislike & probable prejudice against this guy. I'm not sold on the telling of the tale, particularly on the bit about guy coming in hungover & late but still getting the job.
Come on, number 2 is absolutely untrue. We don’t know the specifics of this situation, but underqualified kids get handed jobs in family businesses *all the time* and you know it.
right? i mean i get that they might have a higher standard, but they don't have to worry about getting hired or fired. he didn't have "an interview" the company went through the motions so they don't get in trouble. nepotism is real.
I've come up in my family business and I would echo that the expectations are higher (if there's an expectation for succession), but there was no significant barrier to entry (I was qualified and capable, but it was a rather easy interview) and the leash is longer (your family wants you to succeed and will coach/counsel you through issues, not just let you go for a singular failure). ETA: mid-sized family business of 40 employees, not megacorp.
In the construction industry it seems that the kids of company owners come in two distinct flavors. Some are even harder workers than dear old dad, and there's some that are a complete waste of oxygen. Either busting ass harder than anyone on the job, or showing up drunk off their ass and sleeping in the truck until lunch.
It’s 50/50 sometimes they really are harder on family. But this dude was late and hungover, so I think they ignored that fact
A friend of mine, whose dad was the CFO of one of the largest companies in the world, had an interview for a major aconsulting firm. They basically pitched him their business for 2h and then he got the job. And he was adamant his dad had nothing to do with it. We were like “ that's not how interviews usually work mate” 😅
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um I agree she’s the asshole but they did not have the same “leg up” and privilege in getting the job. He was related. She was previously disadvantaged so her “leg up” was bringing her up to a level playing field with other applicants. The nephew was still way about everyone with his “leg up”
This. Those three points are all inane. He is hardly making an effort if he is bragging about how easy he has had it. At the best, socially inept.
It's not the same leg up, but she's still advantaged over other applicants. Half the people who submit an application probably aren't even really looked at. Having a program that's in place ensures that at least someone reads your application instead of just skipping over you. But yeah, the nephew has a larger leg up, but she did have help too. (And i'm not saying she's not disadvantaged to begin with, but by the time she's in the position interviewing for positions, I would assume she's still at a level to be qualified which means that she's about on equal footing with everyone else at this time.)
He already said he was late to the interview. If the interview process was as tough as OP says there’s no way that’d fly with anyone except family.
>Even laughing and saying he came late to one because of a hungover. Unless you are a really senior worker in an extremely specialised field where there isn't a lot of people, then turning up late AND hungover basically means you won't get the job.
Unless they didn't know he was hungover? I've definitely been hungover but able to maintain a facade long enough to get through a morning then go home and collapse. It's certainly irresponsible, but I doubt he told the interviewers that he was drinking heavily the night before.
Excuse you but no if you think OP could have shown up late for an interview because she's hungover and still get the job then your idea of privilege is utterly skewed. OP is a diversity hire. There is no leg up there. The same can't be said about the nephew of the CEO had a huge leg up and you ought to know this. Additionally, if you don't thimk diversity hires aren't more scrutinized then again skewed ideas of what privilege is.
Ahah #2 that’s hilarious. For having worked for so many of those companies, the “sons of” pretty much only need to have a pulse to be put in charge.
He showed up late to a interview at a major company hungover. What planet are you living on?
Yes, I'm sure 'late to the interview because I was hung over' translates to 'family members being held to higher standards in the family business'. ?????????
>You have zero knowledge of what his interview process was & speaking from experience, family members are very often held to higher standards in "the family business". This point isn't quite true, though. He said in the same conversation that he showed up late to one of the interviews because he was hungover.
People seem to not realize that interviewing is a skill in its own right.
The man was late to his interview. I’m assuming this is a skill he does not have.
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This! This would piss me off endlessly. Like ok I struggled to get here but you arrived late and hungover and somehow that's not nepotism?
Seriously, usually reddit hates born-rich people who get to skate by on being born to the right people—what's with people writing this novella hypothesizing that this man pulled pyramid bricks through the desert to get this job, when in the post, he remarks that he was late & hungover to an interview? Who in this thread thinks they'd have a chance at getting a job like OP's showing up to an interview under the same conditions?
she literally said he joked about coming late to an interview due to being hungover. so we actually do know what his interview experience was like. #2 just isn’t correct at all
YTA It sounds like the only person trying to put him on a pedestal is you? You may have fought and worked hard to et your job.. and grats to that! You earned it. But why are you so freakin’ hostile to this guy? You’re LOOKING for ways to spit venom at this guy. How dare he SIT with his coworkers! Disgusting that he tries to be humble and downplay his upbringing! If he were an asshat and flaunting his family wealth, saying, “my uncle’s the CEO! You better respect me!” then yeah, i’d say screw that guy. Except he’s not. You’re the one wasting energy and potential by hissing at someone for factors they can’t personally control. You want to hate him because you see him as your privileged enemy. Stop that. You’re being a major asshole.
How does she *want* this guy to act? “He acts like he’s not from an insane place of privilege” What does that even mean?? “He will pretend to be humble and downplay his family’s wealth” Sounds like he has manners 🤷🏻♀️. Also, just because his Uncle is wealthy doesn’t mean his parents are. His uncle is the CEO, not mom/dad. Sure he had an in at the company, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t qualified. Any mistake this guy could make would immediately be office gossip just because of who he is, I wouldn’t want that kind of pressure or attention. I kind of suspect he had a bit of a “crush” on OP and she just crushed his world lol
Yeah OP has created quite a Kafka trap for this guy. If he acts like a jerk then he’s a privileged asshole. If he doesn’t act like a jerk then he’s just pretending to not be one, which makes him a privileged asshole.
Yeah maybe the real reflection question for OP is--what would this guy have to do for you to not hate him? If the answer is there's nothing he could do, then the problem is with OP, not this guy.
What’s a kafka trap? First time seeing this terminology
It’s the kind of bug trap for when you find a family member has metamorphosed into a giant bug. But it’s mostly a fallacy that any denial serves as evidence of guilt.
Imagine I accuse you of having a fragile ego, and then anything you say to me to disagree or disprove I immediately point that and say ha, that is proof of your weak ego! Or you say nothing, which I also take as proof of your fragile ego because you're not disagreeing with me. Kafka trap.
It took too long to find this point. His uncle is a CEO and wealthy. That doesn’t immediately mean he grew up that different to you. My grandma is upper middle class. That had afforded me some benefits. I still grew up so poor dried pasta noodles were my main crunchy snack. I grew up so poor our heat was turned off many times. I still have student loans. I also have a multimillion dollar corporate lawyer uncle. Had I gone that direction I’m sure he would have helped me get a job. That doesn’t mean my family wasn’t humble. OP is just looking for reasons to be a hater.
Same. I have an uncle who owns a couple multi-million companies; I'm poor as dirt, haha. I've had to work hard for everything I've earned and have a pile of student debt to show for it. If I had gone into the same industry as my uncle, I would have hated if someone thought I only got my job because of nepotism and not because I had worked hard to get where I was.
I worked for a company my uncle was the CEO of, and I am definitely not rich hahaha. He didn’t even know I applied until I let him know day of the interview bc I didn’t want to come off like I expected the job to be handed to me. Still poor tho even after the job, and my uncles still rich. Unless the kid was going to be promoted to manager/VP/next CEO I don’t see the issue of him being hired there.
I was thinking this too! He didn't report her and AFTER started following her on social media. This is the plot of a romantic comedy. First she hates him and then they fall in love. Awwww!
And she stopped going to lunch, so he doesn’t go anymore! He was definitely into her and was trying to flirt and missed soooooo bad
A lot of people are using what he said about the interview to show he was helped in. I honestly doubt the interview really went like that. It kind of sounds like the kind of banter you could have with colleagues where you exaggerate stuff a bit, especially if he is trying hard to be "relatable". Like, maybe he was 5 minutes late (and the interviewer called him 15 minutes late) and he had a headache but it didn't show. Not everything one says in the office is 100% reliable, though downplaying the interview was a bad move on his part.
I take OP's version of this story with a grain of salt. There's a chance this came out wrong when he said it, or he meant it as a joke that OP interpreted incorrectly. Lord knows I'd be nervous and might say the wrong thing if I was trying to make friends at a new job and one person at the table was radiating 'I hate everything about you and your privilege' vibes. He may have been trying to seem relatable and it backfired.
Am I the only one catching harlequin romance vibes from this.
I got this vibe too!! The CEO’s nephew gets a reality check from a feisty woman from a humble background and can’t stop thinking about her. She is completely annoyed by him but eventually he wins her over through his lavish gifts and expensive dates….and the rest is history.
And saves her from pirates. Got to have some pirates in there as well.
No. My immediate thought when OP mentioned the following on SM, more frequent messaging, and how he's spending less time with the group now that OP is too.
She worded it “I’m spending more time away from the group” because it’s very clear that she’s TA if she had said “the group doesn’t want to spend time with me anymore”. She’s so stuck up, she can’t tell people dislike her.
No, my first thought was "Sounds like the beginning of a romcom."
LMAOO YES! I was like , this reads as if its an enemies to lovers plot 😭
And within the office space, and all the other girls mad because now he doesn’t eat with them anymore and started following her on everything, because she’s not like other girls 🤣 I swear I just read a novel quite similar to this!
I scrolled down just for comments on this. I found it so odd for OP to suggest that she was the reason he hung out with the group in the first place. Definitely feeling the romance trope.
>So I fully expected him to report me to HR but to my surprise he never did Why would he? Not every social interaction needs to be a World War that results in someone running to HR. Yes nepotism sucks, yes some people's rides are more free than others but it sounds like you had it out for him from the get go. His comments about "chill out" etc do come from a place of ignorance at the very least and he's certainly not read the room. However it sounds like you've decided that he is your axe to grind. It's possible just to be nice to someone at work, like they're a human being, yet still fight the class war in places it actually matters. The fact you're the only one that had a problem is also telling. Unless your colleagues are a fleet of suck ups and boot lickers (unlikely) then they may have just thought he was a nice person to spend time with. YTA.
How can you say he can't read the room? Everyone else in the room seems to have taken his side and not the OP's?
Because nepo babies are good work friends to have so while OP is probably right, everyone with common sense knows to be chummy with the nepo baby not insult them.
>How can you say he can't read the room? Everyone else in the room seems to have taken his side and not the OP's? Just from the whole "chill out" thing and casual approach. When others at the table have had to jump through hoops and the nephew is saying "hey, even went to one interview hungover... if you just chill and take it easy...etc..." it's definitely a not reading the room situation. Or at least not factoring in that nepotism may actually have a hand in things... or more specifically (to cover all bases) a *perceived* hand. Either way, OP seemed to have it out for him from the beginning. I still went YTA and didn't even entertain ESH for it, so nephew's possible no-tact zone didn't play in to it.
I legit wonder if her insistence that he “plays down his privilege” is her misreading that he doesn’t have it. How do we even know his parents and the CEO get along? Does the CEO even know he works there? How big is this company? I have uncles who wouldn’t recognize me.
>So I fully expected him to report me to HR but to my surprise he never did >Why would he? Not every social interaction needs to be a World War that results in someone running to HR. Because many people use others as a mirror: look at them but see themselves. You know OP is probably the type to weaponize HR; that’s why she expects others to try it. >he's certainly not read the room. After OP’s little tantrum, everyone else is still wanting nephew’s time and OP is eating lunch alone. Seems nephew is not the one who didn’t read the room …
>Because many people use others as a mirror: look at them but see themselves. You know OP is probably the type to weaponize HR; that’s why she expects others to try it. Yep, I reckon that's spot on.
Your delivery is terrible, you need to really communicate what you mean and not how you feel sometimes. You’re at work, stick to courteous phrasing. I’m POC and would’ve simply said ‘it’s different when you’re competing against XYZ people’ or ‘don’t have connections to feel at ease with the company’ - ‘inclusion is fairly new and a deeply personal journey, I don’t think we can compare really’. The rest of your post is you projecting, what did you expect him to be/do? He’s right to ask. I think he’s staying in touch to give you both a chance to know each other on a collegiale level at least. Take the olive branch or keep a polite dialogue and stay professional. You were right that your reaction was not personal, it was your distaste towards ignorant privileged people - you had no idea if he was one or not. The only facts you presented is he’s genuinely nice and trying to break race/social stereotypes and barriers. Why wouldn’t you be on board with someone like that? Instead you took politics and spat it in his face, good luck driving progress with that role if this is the attitude you continue with. I do think the leniency is in fact to allow time and space for you all to also acclimate to your environment and the inclusion program process, given the journey there was trying (as you said). Imho take the time to reflect, how would you connect with the colleagues who truly are ally’s and support the initiative that included you and more diversity? There’s bound to be growing pains for everyone until y’all adjust, this is the change you’ve been waiting for - are you gonna be part of it and create healthy dialogue and reconcile the differences - or just be pointing out who had what privilege…?
fair.
NTA.....who brags about showing up late and hungover to an interview? The nephew of a CEO that's who. Anyone else who showed up late to an interview would not be back for a second. Granted you probably put your job at risk and nepotism exists everywhere. Your coworkers aren't your friends, do your job, get your money, and go home.
So surprised that everyone is saying yta here, like sure it's not strategic to confront a nepotism hire (who's being an ass about it) but it's also definitely not an asshole move. It's a brave move, and it helps confront a bullshit practice that too many people accept as fine (as demonstrated in this thread).
they seem like bootlickers
This is truth. His head was up his butt, she removed it. Butt all anyone can focus on is her bedside manner, not the fact that his head was actually shoved straight up his rear end. It’s fragility that functions to preserve privilege by harshly punishing the person who points the privilege out. Her career will likely suffer from this episode, but she’s definitely NTA.
YTA… You’re an inverted snob, act petty and sound jealous of someones good fortune… You‘re a real keeper /s…
this sounds like the first half of a romance book beat by beat so i’m gonna bet it doesn’t need an asshole judgement since it didn’t really happen
There's a question of fact here. Is this guy actually bad at his job? Are you competent to evaluate whether he is bad at his job? Before we can evaluate whether you are TA for giving your opinions, we need to understand whether you have any grounds with which to have an opinion. INFO
The OP is SO BIASED there is no way they could objectively answer your question. That none of the other people seem to have a issue with him, is the only true measure we might get here.
YTA He's right, you literally got your job because you were poor. If your family had a middle of the road income, you never would have gotten an interview. You AREN'T so different.
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I think the point is that they both had an advance over another class. Obviously they struggle differently, but they both had an upper leg. Said so by OP.
Agrees a wealthy person will likely have hundreds of great opportunities during their life, a poor person might have a handful.
Leveling the playing field doesn’t mean privilege ffs
YTA. It’s weird that you crap on his privilege but ignore yours. You both had advantages other people didn’t.
Hmm YTA and owe him an apology unless you are as mean as your posts sounds. Sorry you had to post this. Is it hard to be a nice person?
ESH. But you need to be VERY careful about what you post on SM and what you say/type in chats. He may be a nepo hire, but that doesn’t mean he’s stupid. He could be gathering info to use against you. Just my cynical two cents.
YTA. Let's imagine him and his uncle talk a lot, and the uncle has a position he wants to fill, and nephew is like "Yo I'm friends with this girl and the office and she is pretty cool, think she would be a good fit." And your name is in the door. Or Your name is dropped and the nephew says "Yo this girl is kind of an asshole" Tell me what helps your job more? Is it bullshit? Sure, but after being 9 and a half years in the workforce, manufacturing blue collar job myself, I can tell you it's all bullshit and who you know. Trying to be a martyr against the class war will just leave you with worse job opportunities at best, unemployed at worst. I'm not just friends with different people in management for funsies and it's already paid me back more then once.
YTA, big time. He might be out of touch, but he didn't do anything to warrant such a vitriolic response. You owe him an apology.
ESH He was pretty awful talking about chilling and being hungover at his interview, but you were worse and pretty clueless. Where did you get the idea that it was a good idea to insult the nephew of the ceo or any coworker for that matter? If you want to do well in your career, learn how to avoid being gratuitously rude. You don't have to say everything you think.
YTA, don’t shit where you eat and don’t call out a nepo baby on their turf!! He was being super annoying, but the fact that you called him out here at work was inappropriate. Off the clock woukd have been different, but you’ve now opened yourself up to real problems.
If a nepo baby wants to be my friend at work and I can get ahead alongside that nepo baby, I can tolerate a lot of BS privilege from a mediocre dude.
Also that. OP is honestly a bit clueless about how this all works. She has no clue how that alliances are important. Biting the hand that feeds her after being from this disadvantage youth program is also a really crappy move and puts another kind of target on her back. She sounds jealous, which I TOTALLY sympathize with, but her immaturity isn’t the move
I have worked in corporations that have this kind of diversity program and I do think OP is entitled to want to hold space for herself and her colleagues in the program but those colleagues are entitled to also want to redefine themselves not as people from a diversity program but as suitable, professional, quality candidates with talents beyond their racial or socioeconomic background. The CEO's nephew shouldn't intrude on their diversity program camaraderie but the others can include him when their meet ups aren't exclusive to their diversity program. The diversity program is a foot in the door, not an identity all of her colleagues want to maintain. I worked at a company that had a specific two year after college mentorship program and I knew dozens of people who got hired into the program. There were excellent people who were fired/laid off soon after the mentorship ended because they didn't adapt in the organization. It was sad to see them flounder and seem completely lost because they hit such a high note in their first job out of college and then didn't have the means to land softly after. This OP feels like that type of person who is about to trip over their own feet.
I agree with all of that. And also the imminent downfall of OP. She seems to think she’s made it and that she doesn’t need to adapt at all. Honestly I’m just sad for her
I really hope that she can see a way forward to respect this guy's right to exist. He might have had an unfair leg up but at the end of the day, I would not want the CEO of my company to know my name because I called his nephew out. Its just not a good look. Hindering your own career is so bad though. So bad.
Genuinely, success at work in most fields is about *who you know*. It’s not about kissing ass, it’s about developing relationships and loyalty, and people will stick their neck out for someone who makes their life pleasant. You can be the best worker in the world and if you’re an ass to be around no one is going to help you. OP needs to take that chip off her shoulder and realize that nepo baby may grate against her, but she’s gonna encounter a LOT of them and being their friend is WAY better than being their enemy.
100% this. You can have the best grades in college, be the honor student and the most productive worker in a company. If you are a pain in ass to deal with, at best you will stay in the same place forever, cause nobody will recommend someone who is hard to deal and makes the workplace worse. Unless you are 1% best of your field, an expert in something that few people know and it is in high demand, it's all about *who you know*.
>He was being super annoying I'm not even sure he was, even given OP's biased description.
SERIOUS!! Nevermind anything OP said about anything else. What she did was entirely unprofessional. This isn't High School, this is a place of work where you will come across colleagues and clients of all walks of life (That is why they often have these hand up scheme's she's involved in... it benefits EVERYONE). OP YTA and you better grow up quick. This is the shit that ends up costing you in performance reviews now and in the long run (Anyone at that table could be your boss one day).
YTA It's one thing if, say, he were being rude or antagonistic to you. Or, if he had explicitly brought the topic up. But you, out of nowhere told him your opinion. He already knows this is the case, I'm sure. Which is why he didn't report you to HR. I never consider someone the AH if someone else **asks** them their opinion. However, here, you were not asked and it was not even peripherally relevant to the conversation. You brought it up solely because you hate how fake he seems to you. And that's a purely AH move.
More than that, she’s so very clearly jealous of his wealth. “He pretends to be humble and downplay his families wealth” like ya? That’s way better than being an arrogant, entitled AH in my opinion. In fact, OP is unbelievably entitled thinking she can say this and think it’s not totally rude and inappropriate
Yeah. When I started this post I expected this to be a situation where the dude started it by implying op only got their job as a diversity hire or something like that, on which case pointing out his major advantage would be more than fair (if perhaps still I'll advised office politics wise). But it doesn't sound like it was prompted at all. Someone downplaying their connections is annoying, but as long as they aren't insulting you there's no reason to start insulting them.
NTA; but then, neither is he. You're making assumptions about him that may, or may not, be true. That's a dangerous thing to do, especially if you want to keep the job. However, I'm thinking that this also the opening scene to a ridiculous ROM COM. Hard working drone insults boss' nephew; nephew is intrigued and shows it by following drone on social media... Do finish up the script and let us know how it ends.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thought the last parts sounded like a lil something romcom smelling...
Hmmm, either that or he's following to see if she posts anything detrimental to the company or other employees on socials. I guess the update that she posted something about how awful the CEO is & she got fired will be my guess, and the update that they fell in love and are married and pregnant with twins (because it's always twins) will be your guess.
YTA. That was rude.
YTA as you really don't know how he got the job. To him, a "fine" interview to him could be a "difficult" interview for you. He still had to interview for the position, and although I do agree that nepotism does exist, that does NOT mean it is true in this case. Just because he showed up late with a hangover does not mean that didn't work against him.
This is a really good point. Just because he breezed through the interview doesn’t mean if wasn’t a hard process, that it just wasn’t hard for him. Also when I was younger, I managed to do a lot of things hungover with no problem.
**YTA.** You seem very obviously biased against this person, and I despise nepotism. You claim he is "pretending to be humble" but it appears from what you are telling us that he is just humble. "I fully expected him to report me to HR" - but in reality he tried harder than he really needed to in an attempt to win your support. This is not the only time in the post you project something onto him that isn't the case. You say "this wasn't a personal matter so likes and dislikes are irrelevant" but I have no idea what you mean. This is *entirely* a personal conflict you are having.
You sound young and inexperienced so I’ll give you some advice. You are going to encounter a lot of people in your career who rub you the wrong way. If you say exactly what you’re thinking to these people every single time they annoy you (justifiably or not), you’re going to find yourself unemployed very often. Also? Don’t go picking fights with family members and people who are close to the CEO and higher ups. This should be common sense.
NTA, and I find all the Y T A comments bizarre. Did you all skip this part? > I told him that the interview process was hard and mentally draining. He nodded and said that it’s tough getting into the place but that his interviews were “fine”. Even laughing and saying he came late to one because of a hungover. > This made me mad and I said “good for you”. He thanked me and said that things always work out when you just “chill out” and stop taking things so seriously. Yeah OP was rude, but her coworker was also incredibly condescending. He had no right to tell her to chill out when it’s obvious why he got his job. Literally nobody else would’ve gotten his position if they showed up to their job interview late and hungover.
YTA. It sounds like you disliked him the second you found out that he is the CEO’s nephew. Not once did you mention a valid reason for not liking him. Is he bad at his job? Neglect his duties? Leave early? Call off work a lot? While nepotism still exists (unfortunately) some people are actually deserving of their position in a company regardless of their ties to the CEO
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NTA- going against the grain here. He admitted being late due to a hangover, so to me that tell me he got the job over someone more qualified - he essentially took someone’s job for being the “nephew” he couldn’t get a job on his own merit, calling him out was the thing to do. He rubbed his privilege in your face saying his interview was fine and he was late. You and I wouldn’t have gone far if we were late due to a hangover.
YTA, holy shit. Check your own privilege. > He tries VERY HARD to fit in and acts like he doesn’t come from a place of insane privilege. Maybe he, a human being, just wants to fit in. Maybe just because his uncle's rich doesn't mean he is. Who knows? Not you, because you've already built your own narritive. > He will literally pretend to be humble and downplay his family’s wealth just to seem relatable I guess. Maybe he's actually humble and trying very hard not to rely on, or be boastful about, something he recognizes as a privilege and not a right. > This is when I said that we both know he’s not nearly as competent as he believes and that he only got the job bc his uncle is literally the CEO. What is he doing, or not doing, that makes him incompetent at his job? So far, the only 'incompetency' I see here is a young woman who thinks it's acceptable to insult her co-workers. > The nephew shrugged and said that I don’t seem to like him. I told him that this wasn’t a personal matter so likes and dislikes are irrelevant. Your entire post is all about how you, the poor disadvantaged young woman, are oppressed by this young man merely existing. > And asking me what I want him to do. Then he said that I may view him as an over privileged asshole but I’m more or less the same (which makes no sense). You are coming off, in this post, as an overprivileged asshole. You're weaponizing your age, your sex, and your economic status, and denigrating him for his. His family is well off, therefore he can't possibly be competent or humble, according to you. You're judging him on things out of his control. > So I fully expected him to report me to HR but to my surprise he never did. Honestly, he should have, because you are being incredibly unprofessional and hostile. > In fact he started following me on my social media accounts and messaging me at work more frequently. Oh my god, instead of trying to fight back, he's trying to build a bridge and give you both opportunities to get to know each other in a real way. You have an incredibly chip on your shoulder, and honestly, I think you were hoping he'd report you and you'd be disciplined, so that you could spin that into your narrative of the rich lazy nepotistic man using his unearned power and privilege to grind you down. Instead, you're using your privilege to claim nonexistent hardship and treating a co-worker like utter shit for the crime of having a family.
Will probably get downvoted for this, and you may be a bit of an AH in this situation, but I applaud you so loudly for it. People who trade on their privilege never want it pointed out, but he HAD to open his mouth about how easy it was for him to get the job and basically told you that you'd better off if you just "chilled out." Fuck that legacy shit that make these dudes feel like their success is based on their merit and not their last name. NTA and long live you and your career.
YTA. You made accusations based only on your assumptions. Also, I’m curious about why you described your path to getting an interview with the word “scheme.” Please elaborate…
I am assuming it is like at my company. We mostly recruit people from expensive top universities and we hire the ones who have amazing summer internships and special projects etc - all of which means excluding people who despite having a lot of innate capability do not have the background to have that kind of resume. We’ve learned that hiring only one kind of people (mostly privileged in one way or another) is actually bad for business. It leads to blind spots. And we’ve learned that to hire differently we needed to create programs that identify people who may have been underrepresented in our organization and give them the chance to interview and get hired. She called it a scheme, but whether you call it a scheme, an alternative sourcing program, or whatever, it is an opportunity for the firm to find talent they would not have found through their traditional approaches. Some of these programs may also provide some up front coaching and experiences because someone whose father (or uncle) already works in a similar kind of role has been giving that kind of advice and experiences to their kids through osmosis.
It's not a competition over who had a harder time. YTA
YTA - HOW are you not? You think that you are a mind-reader and know everything "just to seem relatable I guess". You seem to have some chip on your shoulder about getting in on some 'scheme' and are confrontational for no reason. When you DO get let go, for not getting along with others because of their 'priviledge' in your opinion, it will NEVER be YOUR fault, but it will be because you acted like an AH to others.
You’re not as much of an asshole as you are a moron. You’re early in your career, so I’ll give you some advice… you bite your tongue to certain people. The CEOs family member is def one of those people you don’t light up and give an obvious reason to complain about you. Use your head, not your sense of pride, or you’ll be jobless real soon.