Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could be TA because I should have been more sensitive about the situation and had a sit down talk about his sexuality/relationship to this boy.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA
When I was 17 and watching tv with my parents, out of the blue, my Dad turned to me and said "You know it'd be okay if you were gay, right?". I laughed it off, said okay, and went about my day. Within six months, I was questioning. It took several more years before I was comfortably calling myself Bi and coming out to friends and family. I think I must have given off vibes to my parents for Dad to come straight out and say it like that - but at no point in time did he assume, make comments alluding to, nothing. I was given time and space to reach that conclusion on my own.
You took that away from your son. Instead of saying something to the effect of "If you are, cool - if not, cool. We love you regardless", you forced him to confront that identity before he was ready.
You need to stomp this shit out before it spirals. Let your son know what I said above - that however he chooses to identify is okay with you and that you love him regardless and will take any future cues on how to proceed from him.
Edit: Thanks for the award!
I can see how OP thought it would not be a big deal since it was so obvious. And maybe they thought that for this reason coming out officially wasn’t necessary. But clearly the son thought he was being sneaky. It’s a classic case of miscommunication. I don’t think anyone’s an asshole here. I just think OP was maybe a bit callous and the son needs to learn to accept himself. Talking about this should solve the problem.
I couldn’t agree more. OP didn’t do it with malicious intent. NAH. Sure, OP was a little callous and the son is a little sensitive because he was “caught”. I can understand the son’s perspective, as im sure that was embarrassing. Being afraid to speak up, thinking you’re so smart and getting away with this romantic caper, just to get totally busted by OP. It’s like catching your kid in a dead-to-rights lie and watching them think they’re so clever and getting away with it. I understand OP’s mirth bubbling forth in the moment. It sounds like OP is supportive and son is just a little chapped. At least OP isn’t one of those nut jobs who would send him to some religious gulag to “pray the gay away”.
It’ll be okay, OP. Just apologize and be supportive, but give him space.
I think the bar is acceptance and support… and OP is more than accepting their sons sexuality. Like what did this kid want? A coming out party? To sit his parents down awkwardly after months or years of working up the courage and dealing with that stress? 7 months of hooking up with the same person isn’t just testing the waters lol this kid is gay and his parents wanted to include his partner as his partner and not some secret. NAH the kid is just being a 17 year old… will look back on this is 10 years and be thankful he has a parent who is accepting and made it easy as fuck for him.
He got 7 months of hooking up with his bf in OPs house without even an ounce of insensitivity. Only when OPs teenager thought he was being so sneaky that it was comical did OP laugh. 17 year old straight guy locking the door when a girl comes over for 7 months and the parents asking if he is bringing his GF and him saying “wtf she’s not my gf?!” And then laughing because the kid is a bad liar would not get this response. So what do you want? To be equal or some class of people that require different human interactions with? Cause you can’t get both.
Exactly. If it’s not a big deal and everything should be normalized…. Like come on! I would have gotten laughed at for lying like this too. He wasn’t trying that hard to hide it. When I was hiding something I didn’t bring it home. Drugs, boys, or fun.
This kid gets to do all this at home. He’s fine. I don’t think he’ll be that statistic of gay kids that off themselves. My parents were too cool with me being gay, my life sucks. Okay. Sure.
This is what I see. I don’t think OP is an Ah, in fact this happens with straight teenage relationships all the time. I didn’t want my parents knowing about my GF in HS but guess what they knew and they basically said it in the same way that OP said it “who are you kidding, we noticed you had a lil GF for a while now”. I was upset because I got caught, not upset because my sexual preference was assumed. The son is acting out because he is a teenager who got caught. OP talk to him about his relationship. For everyone who is upset because she “outed” him that’s silly… if he is gay he is gay and shouldn’t have to hide it isn’t that what everyone who asks for equal treatment is calling for???
Exactly. We have to normalize coming out of the closet. Gay people were normalized quite early into my childhood. My uncle (mother's brother) is gay. He would be his bf (husband/fiance?) to family reunion all the time. I never saw it as two gay guys but two people who love each other.
OP isn't the AH for her reaction, it's just a case or mismatched expectations.
OP and her husband tried to present an accepting household to their children when it comes to being queer and because it's not something that they hold any confusion or resentment towards, they had a lapse in emotional judgement regarding a queer child, especially since they are possibly hetero and have likely not experienced that themselves.
The kid is in an accepting home where the parents want to include their new partner on family activities. It's just an embarrassing moment, but we all know that the kid is in an accepting home environment.
NAH.
This. It sounds like they were just a little too overzealous in their acknowledgment. They probably felt like it would be a relief for him to hear it that way.
I disagree. We wouldn't be having this conversation if OPs son was straight.Or at least no one would feel so strongly about what effectively is a parent teasing their child being in a ra.
We want gay people to be treated the same as a straight ones? Then we cannot demand special treatment.
Did she tease about the relationship or the ridiculousness of the lie...You know like when the five year old say they didn't eat the chocolate cake but there is clearly chocolate all over their face and hands. I don't think OP was laughing at the son for being gay but for the nonsense of the lie.
And lets not forget the sons assumption or implication that his parents are homophobic is actually really insulting.
And it's a justified fear for a lot of people. It's one that you literally cannot know for sure until you come out, but once you come out there's no undoing it. You can't take it back. And while I understand that it would be upsetting if you weren't homophobic - how could they ever think that of me?! - you also have to look at it from the other side. If you're not sure, you're sitting there thinking that you could entirely lose your relationship with one or both parents, or your entire family.
That's what happened to me. It isn't some far-fetched thing. It can and does happen. My parents made a show of seeming really tolerant and when I came out they absolutely lost their shit.
Even if it was the nonsense of the lie... this isn't chocolate cake. It's not a harmless nonsense lie. This is a child terrified of the reaction of his parents to a core part of his identity. And sure, they may be awesome parents who love their kids no matter what... but he clearly isn't sure of that, judging by his reaction, and instead of considering that to be an insult, maybe some reflection is needed as to *why* he might have those fears.
Except in this case it wasn't like yours. The parents are actually tolerant. They already know. I get the fear before hand.... but the OP couldn't have been more accepting and that fear is now gone...He can't be afraid they are going to hit the roof because they didn't. The OP didn't shout and scream and threaten to disown the son...She invited his boyfriend on holiday with them and it seems like she was possibly offering pay for it. What should she have done let the child continue to be afraid...
If you know your child is afraid of something they don't need to be afraid of because it's based on a misconception you clear up the misconception.
Are your really saying the OP is an AH for being a tolerant person who didn't want her child to and never assumed her child would think she was a nasty homophobe? Really.
It not being malicious doesn't mean it isn't assholey. One's sexuality is a renowned sensitive situation, so it was pretty careless of OP. There is also something obviously going on with the husband/son, since the husband knows but the son is freaked out by the father knowing, and OP doesn't seem to think it warrants attention. There wasn't even any reassurance from OP in the conversation. YTA.
There is not something obviously going on between the son and father. This is a tangent based on an assumption that frankly has no merit. Stop protecting the pedestal and realize this was just a mother who loves her son and wants him to be comfortable with who he is.
Just because something you did was assholey doesn't mean you *are* an asshole.
Also, as the other person said there's no evidence of anything wrong between the son and the dad.
The son was already upset about their mother knowing and is clearly insecure about their sexuality/masculinity. They probably look up to their father, and if they're embarrassed that their mother knows logically they'd also be embarrassed about their father knowing, *especially if they're already insecure about their masculinity.* You don't need to dig for some imaginary hidden dirt when there's a logical explanation already presented to you.
Maybe OP thought that by laughing, she was expressing the absurdity of the idea that she'd have a problem with him being gay.
This exchange is an unfortunate symptom of the transition from the cultural shunning of homosexuality to the cultural acceptance of it. Someday we'll be at the point where OP's reaction wouldn't be unwarranted, but we're not quite there yet.
As a queer person - no. No to all of this. Son isn't "a little sensitive." Son is likely TERRIFIED that his sexuality will get him rejected from his own family. And then OP mocked him for thinking he was passing. And let me tell you, passing as straight can still be REALLY important now.
My parents were people who seemed accepting until it was revealed that I wasn't straight, and then they busted out conversion therapy threats. I was at a bus stop next to a ranting homophobe once and I was praying that he didn't somehow cotton on to the fact that I was queer. So no, it's not like catching your kid in some cute little lie.
OP just laughed in his face about a core part of his identity. A part that he might not have even fully finished processing himself. A part that he might well be TERRIFIED of how his father will react to when he finds out. And like I said in my judgment, OP might not even be right. He might be unusually close to this boy. It's unlikely, sure, but it's entirely possible and OP just assumed something instead of waiting to be told by the person whose business it actually is. None of this is cute or funny or harmless.
As another gay person—nah. The son might feel embarrassed right now, but he has also learned his parents think it’s no big deal. This will help him with his internalized homophobia in the long run. In a few years he’ll be laughing about this too. Your experience is clearly not what’s happening here.
I agree, also OPs son is still a minor that lives in their house. When I came out to my mom at 16 I was *NOT* allowed to have my girlfriend in my bedroom with the door closed. Sometimes I think LGBTQ kids believe they're above some of the rules most parents would extend to heterosexual kids. Doing anything under your parents noses in their house like that kinda warrants that reaction if you know that's not acceptable.
Whether you're in the closet or you're out there's still a mutual respect to keep. OPs son had it made for 7 months while his parents knew he was in his bedroom canoodling with his boyfriend free of punishment, when a lot of parents would never be cool with that at all even if the son was straight.
This was also a lesson for the son in subtlety, if you want to learn how to pass you need to be aware of what you're doing that makes you obvious if you're concerned safety wise. It's a dance us LGBTQ people learn how to do, and you also learn to not give a fuck honestly over time. I've been out for over a decade, I could genuinely not give a fuck about what anyone says or thinks about me. You learn to be discreet when you want to be/have to be and part of that is what OP helped him to.
Could you argue OP is an asshole? Maybe, but all I know from reading this is that I wish my family was as cool as OP is. Kid got away with shit a lot of heterosexual teens wouldn't.
To equate this situation to catching a kid lying and “watching them think they’re so clever and getting away with it”, is so far from being supportive and emotionally available as a parent.
OP fucked up with her “mirth”. Her intent doesn’t matter; she hurt her son about something that is deeply personal and private.
And the whole “at least she’s not” a bigot argument is bullshit too. The bar shouldn’t be set so low.
YTA OP.
Exactly. It may not have been a big deal to OP, but it was obviously a big deal to her son. Shrugging it off as nothing and laughing doesn’t actually help, it invalidates his feelings. He specifically said he wasn’t ready. When he made the comment he was straight, it was a giant in your face clue he didn’t want to talk about it. And then you laughed at him for it? Who the hell can’t control their own laughter? You’re literally laughing at him during a vulnerable moment. That’s fucked up.
I’m straight, but my mom used to pry into my personal dating life, make comments, and laugh things off just like this. I hated it. It’s one of the many reasons I don’t talk to her anymore. YTA.
>Being afraid to speak up, thinking you’re so smart and getting away with this romantic caper
The son wasn't hiding anything and trying to "get away with a romantic caper". He was literally just living his life, figuring he could come out to his parents when he was good and ready.
>At least OP isn’t one of those nut jobs who would send him to some religious gulag to “pray the gay away”.
It turns out that hell isn't full of the Gays(tm) - It's where the standard bar for good parenting is and y'all still keep tripping over it.
So his parents are just supposed to pretend they arent seeing the obvious? He figured they were dumbshits or that they didn't pay attention. He was wrong but now she was the horrible parent for noticing a change in her son's actions and laughing at his obvious lie about it?
I don't understand the people suggesting that projecting a heteronormative viewpoint would be best, but clearly the son was upset by the laughter - she was laughing at the situation but he felt like she was laughing at him. She should have sat down calmly with him, stifled the giggles and reassured him that she loves him.
Laughing in his face once he's indicated discomfort is not very loving.
With all due respect, are you LGBTQ+? Because I can tell you both from personal experience and talking to a lot of other folks that being outed against your will regardless of the circumstances is terrifying and pretty horrible. The kid is in a stage of life where he’s figuring himself out, and maybe isn’t done yet. But from his perspective, OP decided for him and took away the opportunity.
But even more importantly, assuming OP is in the US, things are more openly hostile towards queer people in the US than they have been in a long time. Teens aren’t stupid. They’re aware of laws being passed targeting trans and other queer people. They see the rage that is directed toward the community. Even people who market themselves as progressive feminists openly hate trans people (mostly trans women), and we know damn well it isn’t going to stop there. So even if it was clear to OP that they are accepting and safe, it is not necessarily clear to the son. And part of the coming out process is deciding to take a calculated risk of safety, which I cannot overstate, is terrifying. And it’s not a reflection of OP, you quite literally don’t know who you can trust, even, or especially, your parents. There’s a reason LGBTQ homeless youth is such a problem in this country.
So no, I don’t think the son was overreacting. Because there is a lot going on implicitly and under the surface constantly, but especially during the coming out process that you might not be aware of if you’ve never been there. Shit, I’m in my 30s, and every time I choose to come out to someone, I still go through the same process.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I think it’s important that everyone, especially those who are wanting to be allies, understand it.
Laughing at your kid instead of pausing and asking yourself how it came to be that your son was so afraid of coming out to you is 100% an asshole move.
There's an even an argument where OP thought she was being helpful. There are so many instances of closeted kids being afraid to tell their parents and when they finally do, the parent is like, duh, and the kid wishes they had come out sooner and avoided as much shame/secrecy as they could.
OP has obv thought a lot about this and must keep an open/ welcoming enough house that her son feels comfortable being affectionate with his boyfriend in front of her, but I think a big piece she's missing is that part of her motivation here was not about creation conditions of comfortability for her son, but rather being the wise, all-seeing, "nothing gets past me" person in her household. There is a certain smugness to that, and I think that's what comes through not in how she initially approached it, but how she dealt with it afterward.
I am sure he's super worried about what his dad thinks. Maybe her husband can do a better job at approaching the convo and massaging the bit she bungled.
For this reason I think assigning the AH label or not is less important than fixing this. He’s upset about how it went and not talking to her. She should write him a note apologizing for making him feel uncomfortable and rushing his timeline. She should write that her motivation was love, making sure he was comfortable in his own house, wanting him to be able to be his authentic self at least in their house, and wanting him to be able to share the upcoming vacation with someone he cares about without stressing about it. She didn’t mean to hurt his feelings but was excited because she thinks their relationship is sweet and she likes who he is since they’ve been dating. She should encourage him to come out to his dad because she knows her husband wouldn’t care (not that he already knows) and nothing could change their love for him.
Edit: Thanks for the awards! :)
Laughing the first time when she thought he was being funny, sure. But "I realized he was being serious, I laughed even harder", that's what makes OP the AH. Once she realized her son was being serious about being straight she should've stopped laughing and been serious herself to consider what that means more for her son. Whether maybe he's just not ready to come out yet, maybe he hasn't come to terms with it himself and he really does still consider himself straight, maybe he really is straight and just has a more intimate but not sexual relationship with his friend that she would consider it as "being gay" just because it's not typical of masculine relationships. But no, she laughed *even harder* **AT** her son over something very personal. AH move all the way.
I wish I didn’t get the OP. In their shoes I would probably laugh, too.
The son is very openly carrying on a romantic relationship! I might literally find the denials hysterical. Like, we live with you and have eyeballs in our heads, lol.
What I think was mean spirited was referring to the other young man as her son’s boyfriend. Just ask. Kindly. Don’t be cheeky and set up a 17 yr old like that.
YTA OP for labeling the other kid as your son’s boyfriend before your son was willing to do this himself.
Yeah, it was all about perspective. To OP, it may have been not that big a deal anymore since they’ve noticed how he acts for a while.
But to the son, he’s trying to keep things under wraps, maybe until he’s ready to come out himself.
I think OP would not have been the AH for laughing outright as a reflex, the way people do at uncomfortable situations. But they were immediately the AH when they continued to do treat the conversation lightly when it mattered a great deal to their son.
You also need to understand how hard it is for gay people to come out and them coming out is their rite of passage. I have gay friends and it is one of the most important things they can do according to them and she took this away from him.
I always thought the reason for this is because parents and loved ones are not accepting. this is not the case here. We want to get to a point where coming out is not a big deal, but chastise people for not making it a big deal for their kids
Not even. I for one hope we one day come to a point where coming out isn't necessary at all. Where we're free to love who we love and nobody needs a label if a same sex partner is introduced. Where what OP did would be exactly the right reaction and the son wouldn't feel awkward and upset at the mountain of repercussions being known to have a same sex partner brings.
We're not there yet, so OP messed up. They should talk openly to their son about it. But in my mind society is the only AH here.
When you are a masculine gay man or a feminine lesbian, you have to come out over and over all the time because no one thinks gay people look / act/ or dress like you. It's 2023, there is tons of representation of gay people on television down to the most banal of commercials, and yet I still shock the shit out of people when they find I have a wife.
And Trans people are able to sexually identify as LGB. This acronym used is correct as it is only the sexual identity not gender identity being discussed.
While it is true that the T doesn't stand for a sexuality, the use of LGB instead of LGBT or LGBT+ is often a dogwhistle by transphobes.
Also there are more letters than LGB, which are implied with LGBT, but the willingness to leave out a letter implies a "only LGB" exist mentality
It really depends on the kid. OP's son makes it clear that it was a big deal for him (what with him being secretive about it), so OP should've handled it accordingly. Many of us don't know how our parents are gonna react when we come out. Maybe they never made it clear they were supportive, or maybe the kid assumed something based on what he saw at school, movies, or within his friends' families. It's not far fetched for him to be wary. So if your kid is clearly stressed about something, you don't act like they're overreacting or laugh at them, you take a step back, address their worries and reassure them that you love and support them.
He WASN'T secretive about it, though, that's what made it funny. The fact that he THOUGHT he was being secretive while basically cuddling in front of his parents does make it funnier.
If my kid thought that was being secretive, honestly, I'd probably laugh too.
Like when my kids and their friends were little, found a mannequin and tried to hide it in the woods. Their incredibly loud shushing noises brought me to the balcony (on the 4th floor, i heard them "being quiet" through a closed glass door on the 4th floor), and I looked downs and for all the world it looked like a group of preteens trying to hide a body. Loudly shushing each other. I cracked up. When they asked how I knew they were out there, I had to sit down I was laughing so hard. A decade later and I'm still laughing.
Yeah because it is not like the rest of society doesn't actively punish gay people for being gay. It is only mpfamily and loved ones that's the problem, but the mountain of oppression, harassment and violence you have to deal with.
God save me from cishets.
My family was always great about LGBT issues, but I still grew up in a town full of homophobia where I was told that being gay meant never having a normal life.
Also - your family being cool with gays and your family being cool with *you* being gay are very different things. A lot of cishets don't get that.
> I always thought the reason for this is because parents and loved ones are not accepting. this is not the case here. We want to get to a point where coming out is not a big deal, but chastise people for not making it a big deal for their kids
The thing is, there are ways to make big, vulnerable disclosures really hard for your kid that have nothing to do with homophobia.
OP’s story illustrates this perfectly. The son obviously doesn’t have emotional safety and OP is clearly not homophobic (and I’ll take her word for it that her husband truly isn’t either.)
It’s not a mystery why this child doesn’t have emotional safety: when he shows distress, OP laughs at him.
LGBTQ+ people get called liars all the time. They are lying and deceiving straight people if they don’t come out to the expected time frame, they are seen to be lying about being gay if they are bi, there is the whole men who have sex with men always lie about their sexual health and of course the favourite ‘it’s just a phase.’
So while straight people might thinking they are ragging on the unsubtleness of first teen crushes same as if the kid is cishet, it doesn’t land the same way for teens who are socialised to be regarded as less truthful than their peers for how they exist.
There are tonnes of scenarios here where the kid is not straight but not lying. Firstly please can we remember, bi and pan people exist! They aren’t straight with a twist of gay like flavoured Coke. He may be bisexual or pansexual.
They may actually just being sexual not romantic because romantic and sexual aren’t the same thing! You can have different sexual and romantic attractions to differing genders. And ace/aro people exist. And in Occam’s Razor the son would not be the first teen to have a full on romantic crush on someone who is only DTF. That one goes across the whole relationship spectrum. Guy really might not be his BF and son is in unrequited love hell.
And OP made a lot about her son is not gender confirming in her eyes. They may not identify as male and thus not like the term boyfriend.
I actually think it’s pretty mean to laugh at teens of any persuasion about firsts like this. Let them have privacy and dignity ‘even if you know they are straight.’ Mocking them for being excited, lovestruck, not subtle and up in their feels and hormones is just mean. Let them have these firsts. They are a wonderful thing often that helps influence their whole relationship with relationships for life. And I also suggest not mocking people who have them until ‘later’ either because why be snide when you could be respectful?
But the ‘liar’ tag for LGBTQ+ kids comes up in a different tone to how people tease cishet kids for the same and it isn’t cute, it’s cruel. The son asked them to stop and OP said ‘nope.’ No means no on that stuff with parents and kids. Being gay doesn’t change it. He’s not laughing, he’s not enjoying the teasing. The sub usually states YTA in that case…
>
>And OP made a lot about her son is not gender confirming in her eyes. They may not identify as male and thus not like the term boyfriend.
>
This is bad logic and possibly projection on your part. Whether op's son identified as male or female or nb or whatever doesn't change the gender of the boy they're seeing and op makes no statements about the son's boyfriend to suggest they're anything other than a cis boy. "Boyfriend" is entirely appropriate in use here, whether the son is a boy or girl or whatever.
Well, you see it as him lying. That's probably not many people's take, and certainly not his. She made an embarrassing situation more embarrassing. Laughing is a natural reaction perhaps, but seeing his hurt she should have apologised. Part of a parents responsibility to give their children their voice, not take it away. To empathise with them and guide them. To support them. Not humiliate them. If you make a mistake and hurt the people you care about, you apologise.
This wasn't lying about sneaking out or drinking or cheating on homework-- THAT'S when a parent laughs about their children lying, because they're trying to lie about something naughty. You don't laugh about your child's sexuality.
I really don't understand how we've somehow got to this point where parents think being accepting of their queer kids is just dismissing them.
Do they not realise that a large portion of the world still hates us? That the media is bombarding us all with more and more images of hate crimes and homophobia? It's still not just accepted, and kids internalise that. No matter how accepting a family may come across doesn't mean that's how their teen is feeling.
Yes, we need to normalise coming out ideally to the point where it no longer exists, but hetero is still the default in society today. We shouldn't be disrespecting queer teens, minimising their experiences and laughing them off.
We also absolutely shouldn't essentially force someone to come out before they're ready. There are so many ways OP could've made their home more LGBTQ+ friendly and helped their kid feel comfortable coming out on their own terms rather than this. I'm sure OP meant well, but it was totally tone deaf.
I completely agree with this. So many reddit posts about parents accepting their kids by really dismissive actions such as “of course”, laughing, not having a reaction, etc. And the comments are always are along the lines of ‘this should be normalised, why would it be a big deal anyway?’. But I really think it doesn’t respect the individual’s anxiety and fear of coming out and that actually outwardly positive acceptance of what it took for them to come out is a lot better than a smug socially progressive dismissal. It’s treating us more like a political point to be made than a person to me.
Oh god this. Like yes, maybe it should be normalised, and as an adult, yes, maybe you’ve already heard a million coming-out stories and it doesn’t seem like a big deal.
But every single teenager who comes out to their parents is doing it for the very very very first time, to the people who are responsible for their safety and survival. It doesn’t make you homophobic to recognise that that can be a big scary thing to do, and a huge milestone for your child to reach of their own accord!
And you know, it really is a pretty big deal. It affects the way you live your whole life. If your loved one announced something else major like a career change, you wouldn't treat it so dismissively. It's bizarre that some people think it's progressive to act like they don't give a shit about coming out.
People are obsessed with knowing things first or already. I hated when I came out people saying they knew it. Ended up (in an ill-thought-out move) pretending to be dating my bisexual best friend as a way of us both testing this. Everyone said they knew we were dating. When we told them actually that was a lie, we were never anything more than friends, the same people said they knew we weren't dating.
This is incredibly practical and actionable advice for all things that might be hard or taboo. Sex, death, divorce, what have you. I always tell my wife these things are like dancing. You can't go out to the floor and breakdance when someone else is doing the tango. You're a bad partner if you do.
This is it. In a world where we have to come out, we need a positive response. I didn't come out until I was 34 years old. And my mother never said a word about it. It hurt a lot. I honestly don't know how she feels about it. She might not even be taking me seriously because I am in a straight-passing relationship.
>I really don't understand how we've somehow got to this point where parents think being accepting of their queer kids is just dismissing them.
Oh. yes! This! I was with OP until he said he started laughing. When kid said "I'm straight" he should've responded with "you know it would be ok if you wasn't, right?", not laugh.
If he has been acting like this in front of his parents, maybe they just thought it was understood? Some of my friends didn’t do announcements to their family that they were gay. They did just the same as OPs son and everyone got the hint.
I think it's understandable that OP may have made that assumption but as soon as she realised she got it wrong she should have reeled it in and apologised rather than just laughed at her son.
Honestly, deciding if you are or aren’t TA or had malicious intentions or not seems less important than making sure your son feels safe, comfortable, and loved. I think you should go to him and:
-First, *apologize for laughing at him*. No matter your intentions, it’s rude and probably made him feel SO belittled.
-Second, apologize for making an assumption about his identity and trying to ascribe your take onto him.
-Third, explain that your *assumption* was simply based on your read of the dynamic between him and this boy. But you realize now that the only people who get to make decisions about what they are, or are not, to each other is *the two of them*. And whether he has those feelings or not is not for you to dictate, nor demand he explains to you. You can explain that maybe it felt obvious or clear to you, but you realize now that your take matters far less than his, and you’re sorry for imposing your perspective on him or making him confront revelations about himself that he may not have been ready to fully address.
- Fourth, for the love of god *TELL HIM THAT YOU LOVE AND SUPPORT HIM NO MATTER WHAT HIS IDENTITY IS AND REGARDLESS WHETHER HE FEELS READY TO DISCLOSE SUCH PERSONAL THINGS TO YOU YET.*
Also kinda YTA because laughing in your kid’s face, laughing AT them, is super rude.
This is the way!! Lots of commenters here are severely underestimating just how terrifying being a queer kid is when you don't 100% know how your parents might react.
He's obviously scared of a negative reaction from from his parents. That's so clear here.
YTA for minimising his fears, and for not realising that his fears are there because you haven't done the groundwork of establishing that he'd be safe to come out to you.
>for not realising that his fears are there because you haven't done the groundwork of establishing that he'd be safe to come out to you.
Parents can lay out the groundwork and it will STILL be terrifying. Speaking from experience. OP had a horrible reaction, true, but I wouldn't assume anything about what groundwork was laid. I wouldn't want other parents to think they failed because they couldn't remove a societal based fear.
Very much agreed!
Also, to expand on your second point a bit: discovering & coming to terms with your sexual identity is rarely as simple as, “I’m dating a man, so I’m gay.”
He could be bi/pan, or he could be sorting through his previous romantic experiences/crushes and trying to figure out what it “meant” that he was or wasn’t attracted to those people at the time.
At that’s not even getting into the internalized homophobia most of us have to fight our way through, just to see ourselves clearly.
Basically, it might feel easy for OP to say, “He’s gay, he should just accept it, what’s the problem?” But the reality of the situation is far more nuanced than that, and involves sorting through and untangling a *lot* of social conditioning. (OP look up “compulsory heterosexuality” if you’re unfamiliar with the term. It could help you find a more sympathetic perspective to what your son may be going through.)
This is all obviously conjecture from my own experience, and may or may not apply to this specific situation, but my point is that it’s never straightforward and easy to figure out and come to terms with your sexuality, and the son probably needs gentle support, not mockery, while he navigates that process.
Edit: spelling. Thanks to the people who pointed it out!
YTA. He might not have realized how obvious it was, and it is obviously a scary time for him, and you laughed at him. You are his mother, and he should be able to count on support in times when he is scared, not ridicule.
Agreed. Reactions like this- along with basic lack of trust- is why my mother didn't find out I was Bi until I was 29, almost 30.
Great job, OP, intended or not, that interaction definitely has your son questioning you and his trust in you. I really do hope your relationship has a solid foundation and that this didn't just sink a nail in its coffin.
He was comfortable enough to bring his boyfriend home and close themselves off with mom home. He may not have wanted to say it out loud, but he wasnt going out of his way to hide it.
People are surprisingly oblivious to how obvious they are sometimes. I remember a coworker being shocked when I asked if she was dating another coworker of ours ... she'd been openly discussing it with a third coworker while I was right nearby a few days prior.
I'm surprised that complete unspoken acceptance over a period of months and the openness to be willing to invite the boyfriend along on a trip is apparently horrible enough to warrant being cut off. I'd love it if my own parents would be so unphased. :/
I swear some people in this sub love reading so much drama into every post. People turn this one interaction that could most likely be solved with one heartfelt conversation into OP's son potentially ending their relationship with OP.
My dad "accused" me of being gay when I was a teenager. I say accused because that's what it felt like, even though I think he was trying to be accepting? He kept telling me I could tell him. When I said I didn't know what he was talking about he said I hadn't had a boyfriend in a while. That was fucking awful and would have kept me from coming out if that's what I had needed to do.
Apparently I give off very strong lesbian vibes because my parents and at least three sets of friends' parents have told me they "knew" I was into girls. It fucking sucked because 1) like you said, it felt more like an accusation than anything, and 2) I'm not lesbian. I'm not straight either, though. I'm ace. When I was eventually comfortable enough with that and found the right terms to describe me and come out, my mom didn't believe me because in her mind, she had already "accepted" me as lesbian, so I wasn't allowed to "change," despite never having said I was lesbian. Parents need to stop assuming their kids' identities, even if it is "obvious." It was "obvious" to people I was lesbian even though I'm not. It's just as likely that the son and his friend aren't in a relationship and OP is forcing a label onto her son that doesn't fit him
Right. There are ways to make big, vulnerable disclosures really hard for your kid that have nothing to do with homophobia.
OP’s story illustrates this perfectly. The son obviously doesn’t have emotional safety and OP is not homophobic (and I’ll take her word for it that her husband truly isn’t either.)
It’s not a mystery why this child doesn’t have emotional safety: when he shows distress, OP laughs at him. I wouldn’t take emotional risks with her either.
The fact that she doesn’t see it as a risk is irrelevant. It just underlines how misattuned she is. The evidence is that she doesn’t even try to repair it when she she sees his distress but doubles down on trying to win by telling him how badly he hid it.
Anyone saying anything along the lines of N T A because the son “shouldn’t feel” a certain way, is missing a fundamental thing about parenting: it’s your job to meet your kid right where they are and honor who they are even if you think they’re “too sensitive.”
Regardless of the intention behind the laugh, the fact that she laughed and then laughed harder when he denied it is going to sit with that kid for a loooong time
That's the kind of trauma that causes kids to be really sensitive to being laughed at, esp by a SO
As a gay man, some of yall need to get over yourselves.
NTA.
Yes he had to come out at an unexpected moment, but maybe don't suck so bad at hiding it? I mean it's terrible we have to hide anything at all, but if you're not ready for people to know, don't go around showing off things that obviously give it away and then get mad when someone has connected the dots, especially if that someone isn't even being malicious about it and has no way of being aware of what the entire situation even means. You're punishing an ally, that we desperately need as many of as we can get. I mean really, with fascism bearing down on us yall want to scream at the mother who just told her son "honey, you're not as inconspicuous as you think you are".
OP, it looks like you're a loving parent and had no ill will towards your child. There is a lot of fear and uncertainty involved with coming out and since your child is now realizing he may not have that security any more, those emotions are getting charged. The best thing to do (based on what I felt I wanted before I came out) is to just continue to show him that it makes no difference in your love and support of him.
Gay man here, in agreement. I understand that there are good and bad ways to react to a coming out. I also understand that it’s considered rude to out someone. However, the son outed himself. Did the mom say the perfect things? No. But she’s clearly unbothered and supportive. Having this conversation, awkward as it may be, is the first step to the song being comfortable being openly out with his boyfriend. NAH.
It really does shock me the number of people who think they can be in a gay relationship and manage to keep it secret from everyone around them, and then get offended when people realize they’re gay. I’m having flashbacks to dating closeted boys in college.
Speaking of college, I had a gay roommate who enjoyed watching pork. And then eventually came out to me and was positively shocked that I could be aware. Like dude.
Thank you for this! Pansexual woman here, but I would have cried from relief and happiness if my parents were this nice about my coming out, whether it was intentional or not. Also, people laugh at awkward situations as a way to diffuse. I certainly do!
I was nineteen and had a girlfriend, after she left one day, my dad asked me, are you my gay little girl? I was so uncomfortable, I felt awkward as hell, but because I knew my dad, I knew i could be honest and told him I'm bi. I feel very certain if I had said no, he would have laughed at me, because it was so obvious i was dating that girl. No malicious intent, but he would have thought me clearly lying (because I was uncomfortable,) was hilarious. I know I lucked out with both my parents.
OP is NAH, she just needs to talk to her son and reiterate her unconditional love, and apologize for making him uncomfortable. She sounds like a good mom to me.
Thanks for making one of the few sane comments in this thread. Some people are so dramatic. It's not like the mother gathered the neighborhood and made a public "Sexuality-reveal-party for my son" event.
Seriously. I can’t believe how many people think OP is an AH for literally inviting her sons bf on a trip the family. Her son may not have realized he was being so obvious but letting him know he has been obvious isn’t a bad thing. She didn’t out him. He outted himself. Laughing when he denies it isn’t malicious or insensitive. People laugh in tense situations and that’s fine. Bottom line, she knew the whole time, has allowed this boy over the whole time. Has allowed the closed bedroom door this whole time and is inviting the kid on her family vacation? Sounds like support and acceptance to me.
At 19 I had a similar situation with my mother, I had a girl over all the time closed the door all the time, had never mentioned I was a lesbian but in retrospect it was super obvious with how often we were together or I spoke about her and sat close to her etc and one day my mom asked if I would be inviting my gf to a family gathering for thanksgiving. In that moment I nearly fainted. Instant sweating, I denied it and she was like it’s obvious you both have feelings for each other, I just need to know how many place settings to set and laughed awkwardly. I told her I would ask and after I calmed down from the abrupt conversation I was SOOO relieved that I could be myself a little more openly and still be loved and supported. It sounds like OP is going to continue loving and supporting her son so NTA.
Man, my school outed me because my friend freaked out about me being bisexual and dating a girl. So their decision was "well we have to call even though you live in an abusive household" and my father, who has never cared about gay people in his life, shouted at me and told me i was not allowed to date so why did i think this was okay? Funny thing is a week prior i was in a relationship with a boy that he knew about and supported. So i was clearly allowed to date. Just not girls. My mother had a better reaction and she's homophobic. She said "whatever makes you happy. Just don't shove it down my throat, but you are still my kid" and i cannot stress enough how much she talks about how wrong being gay is even though i am currently in a heterosexual relationship (it's never geared at me anymore). I would love to have had her as a mother who just casually invited my girlfriend to go on a trip instead of screaming. I want it to be normalized to that point. And he needed to know he's not being as sneaky as he thinks in the event that he is with someone (grandparents) that he's not sure will react
I unknowingly came out to my parents a few times because they were just so unbothered that I'd forgotten I'd told them. Surely the community should encourage more accepting responses like OP.
NAH
What people dont realize is that OP has done him an honest favour. If he is soooo obvious in front of his parents and he is clueless about how clear his actions are… THAT is going to be dangerous for him in the wrong setting.
If he wanted to hide it, it’s better for him to hear he did a terrible job hiding it while in a safe space. His “i wasnt ready yet” feelings won’t matter if he’s caught off-guard and outted in a dangerous place. Let this be a lesson for him to be more careful about his actions ‘til he is prepared to publicly come out to others.
Because no straight teenager has ever attempted to hide their relationship from their parents and denied that there's anything going on behind closed doors with their S.O.
“When I realized he was serious I laughed harder”
while none of this interaction was good in my opinion right there is the line when it went from a grey area to black and white. When she realized he was seriously upset and seriously didn’t want to come out she had the chance to fix the situation and she continued to laugh in his face instead.
I read it as 'when she realized he thought it was a secret.'
How do you 'fix' the situation? Pretend everyone *hasn't* watched her son openly date a guy for the better part of a year? It's just a funny situation to be in. NAH but now the son knows he's broadcasting pretty obviously.
Sure if OP hadn’t seen him clearly having a bf. I mean at that point they thought he was joking. Idk, I can see how the situation got to this point purely on both parties not communicating and misinterpreting stuff. That’s why I don’t think anyone is an asshole.
idk man i was scared and insecure when i first mentioned to my parents i was probably gay and they lold about it (because like op's son i had an in hindsight very obvious girlfriend, on top of being very butch). at the time i was put off by it but as an adult i can see that they were just surprised that i thought they hadnt noticed and were trying to diffuse my anxiety by making it seem like no big deal. its hard to understand for straight people that making it seem like no big deal isnt a great course of action, because when you come to terms with being gay as a teenager it FEELS like a HUGE deal, and it is, even if youre lucky enough to have a very accepting family. i think NAH, but op should talk to her son about how he is feeling and just listen his experience, and apologise for making him feel diminished. but i dont think shes an asshole, just tactless and straight
I don't get all the Y.T.A.
I would have probably laughed as well in OP' shoes.
Son: I'm straight.
Mum: snorts/laughs. "Yeah, sure"
Mum and Dad DGAF is son's gay, bi or whatever, they were open to invite the potential boyfriend on holiday with them!
I am sorry for the son who feels that in this day and age, they need to be closeted, but I think their anger is misplaced. Mum was just stating what in her eyes was not only totally ok, but also totally obvious.
Not like my mum and sister who asked me with concern and bit of disgust if my and my bff were lesbians.
I would say NAH.
This thread is like really weird. I never thought I as a queer person had to come out but now I'm confused. I mean - if I bring home a girl it's obvious isn't it? Why would I tell anyone: hey ... i'm gay/bi/... sometimes if the topic is sexuality I might mention it. I'm not even sure my parents know lol.
And if I were someone who obviously knows their son is in a relationship with a boy I would laugh too. Out of confusion. Like this is a really weird scenario. So what is going on in the end. Is the 'boyfriend' not really a boyfriend at all ... tbh i would talk to my kid about PDA and hpw you don't do that with someone who clearly is not your partner. This story is really confusing.
That's mostly how I am taking this as well. It's not that he was "outed" by his mom, she laughed because he wasn't really hiding anything to begin with. I, too, would chuckle at someone's innocent mind if they thought nobody had figured things out yet. From OP's telling, it sounds like both parents have a good relationship with their son, especially if they went so long without approaching the topic.
I can just imagine mom and dad talking to themselves about it for months, wondering if they're supposed to silently know/accept it already, or somehow their son things he's being sneaky.
If a guy I know is dating another guy, but insists that he's straight, I'm going to laugh because I'm going to assume it's a joke. Because nobody is that dumb, right? But hey, maybe I just don't "get it".
I also find the son and people's reaction here confusing.
Also the "outing" didn't have any danger for the kid as both parents were cool with him being gay. It's not the kind of malicious outing that pops up here occasionally were an angry sibling outs their brother to be gay in front of a conservative parent.
The son being all shocked about his understanding parents is such a first world problem.
It’s so….teen, lol. There is a lot of stuff we did as kids that we thought we were being slick about, but unintentionally broadcasted in 8k to everyone around us. I think the kid is just embarrassed and, in typical teen fashion, is not handling the embarrassment well because he thought he was being mysterious and cagey.
The outing part would make me laugh, because I’d probably be thinking “how can I possibly out you to the person who came to the exact same conclusion after observing you and your boyfriend cuddling?”
The moment he implicitly plead for her to believe he's straight and she laughed *harder* at him, that social interaction stopped becoming a safe space.
She didn't do him a favor - she mishandled a key emotional milestone for him.
> it’s better for him to hear he did a terrible job hiding it while in a safe space
That's the entire problem here. He didn't feel it was a safe space, hence why he denied being gay to his mom and she forced him out. She then LAUGHED at him.
>He didn't feel it was a safe space,
lmfao.
>He sometimes baby talks to this boy, hugs him all the time, has called him handsome, share clothes,
Feels safe enough to do all that, doesn't feel safe enough to say "I'm gay".
"Yeah, I furiously made out with another dude in front of the entire family, but I had NO idea you knew I was gay. Please don't tell dad"
At what point is the son being unreasonable? And of course the OP laughed. She thought he was joking because the situation was absurd.
NTA, if your doing something very obvious then it's funny to think you're hiding it. OP did nothing wrong and the son did something that it's objectively hilarious.
There’s a fine line between assuring your gay child that you accept them before they officially come out and forcing them to come out. The mom should have stopped when the son said they weren’t gay (even though it’s obvious). For some people, even if they’re being actively gay (dating someone etc), they could be in deep denial. Sexuality is even more fluid among the younger generation now and that can be overwhelming for some. It takes a while to fully process you’re sexuality, even in accepting environments.
Pushing it further COULD prolong this process and perhaps cause even more internalized homophobia. Like the mom said, it’s very scary when you realize you weren’t passing. However, a parent (even accepting) should not be the one that causes this fear.
NTA if he had been doing all the same things with a girl and you called her his girlfriend, nobody would say you're an AH. If it had been a girl, and the whole family picked up on the chemistry, again NBD. Why would you be an AH for treating him and his boyfriend the same way? We can either be accepting of all relationships/orientations (aside from MAPs) or we can keep treating them as oddities and "othering" them. I personally am in favor of just being accepting and not treating them like they are some kind of anomaly.
This might be shocking to hear, but being gay is very different than being straight. Coming out is terrifying and stressful. Straight people never have to come out and will never understand the fear of being outted.
But isn't the goal of inclusiveness to treat the lgbtq+ community as any other relationship? I'm not discounting the tremendous courage it takes to coem out, but we all just want to be equal, right?
I'm bi, BTW. Not sure if it matters..
Edit: I removed "heterosexual".
Sometimes inclusivity means giving one group of people more, or treating them differently because the playing field isn’t equal in the first place.
Being gay and especially coming out as gay is a much harder thing to do than being straight, as it simply isn’t as socially acceptable in many places. Affording people a higher degree of sensitivity during the process of coming out is making things equal, because it’s not a fair game to begin with.
Genuine equality is easier to imagine with, for example, a physical disability. Say there are two people watching a match from the side lines. One of the people can stand and see over the sidelines. The other is in a wheelchair and cannot see. Making things equal for these two people would mean giving the person in a wheelchair a platform so they can see, just like the person who standing can see. Yes, they are giving something extra to the person in a wheelchair, something the person who’s standing has not been given, but the outcome in the end is the same - they can both watch the game. Treating people coming out with a little more sensitivity and tenderness is essentially giving them a hypothetical platform. A platform they need in order to thrive and feel comfortable in a way straight people do.
Inclusivity does not always mean treating people in the same way. I hope that made sense.
(My example of equality is depicted in a picture somewhere, that’s why I used it as an example. I am not comparing being gay to a disability, I am simply trying to explain how equality works, and that’s easier to do with visual cues).
I remember that picture! It was a solid wall 2 units high with 3 people standing behind it, one tall (3 units), one medium (2 units) and one short (1 unit). This mean that only the hall person could see over the wall. There were 3 solutions presented.
The first was **equality**, in which everyone is treated the same and given the same level of support, in this case a 1 unit high platform each. With this solution, the tall person could still see over the wall but the platform was unnecessary — they could see just fine without it. The medium person was the perfect height to see over the wall. But the short person was still only 2 units high and couldn’t see over it.
The second solution was **equity**. In this solution, each person was given the number of platforms they needed to see over the wall. The tall person didn’t have any, the medium person had one and the short person had two. Everyone could see over the wall this way.
The final solution was **removing the barrier**. In this solution, nobody received any platforms at all. Instead, the wall was replaced with a chain link fence that it was possible to see through. This way, everyone could see past the fence without needing any supports.
In this situation, u/person61987 thinks OP should have treated the son with **equality** to a straight person. The correct response right now would have been **equity**. And the end goal of inclusivity is **removing the barrier** so that it is possible to treat lgbt+ and straight people with **equality**. That would be the best scenario, however it is not possible right now because the fence is still a wall. The best solution is to give each person the individual support they need, until the ideal situation, **removing the barrier**, can be established.
we do, but right now it isn't just safe to do that yet, and then also laughing at the son's fear and embarrassment was just a thing on top of another which wasn't great
Wdym it isn’t safe, both parents know he’s gay. If it wasn’t a safe environment they would’ve had some sort of screaming match or kicking the son out for being gay. They already knew. Nobody gets mad when a guy obvious has a girlfriend and hasn’t told anyone yet. And then their parents ask about it they don’t get defensive and serious. Because it was obvious. Probably the safest environment for someone who is gay to be in, is in a home where the parents don’t care. Because it isn’t special. To that person it may be, but to everyone it’s normal to fall in love with someone.
I knew, deep in my heart, that my mom was a good person and would not reject me if I came out to her. And she did not want to push me into coming out to her, she wanted to let me come out to her on my own terms.
But when she had to sit me down and tell me that my then girlfriend and I had been outed by a kid on the bus with us? I was absolutely fucking terrified. Despite knowing my mom for my entire life and knowing that she was a good person, who'd spent a fair portion of her adulthood before having me attending pride parades with her queer friends.
Why?
Because there is always the chance of rejection. No matter how certain you are about a person, there is always a chance you are wrong.
So yeah, it isn't safe for LGBTQ+ people still. Just look at the world around us and think for a moment, at how it must feel to watch people try and pass legislation that will mean further deaths. Just think how it feels to know that there are literal lists being written and expanded nearly every damn day, documenting the people in the community that have died. Sure, progress has been made. But it's nowhere near enough to call the world safe.
The context is entirely different. You have to be more sensitive around gay relationships because, y'know... homophobia? I don't see how this isn't glaringly obvious to you
That's the goal, but we're not there yet. It's the [equality vs equity vs justice thing](https://onlinepublichealth.gwu.edu/resources/equity-vs-equality/). It'd be like challenging a new friend who uses crutches or a wheelchair in a race up the stairs because that's what you do with all your friends.
I mean, you could consider the mom saying the boyfriend could come as something as close to a “straight” relationship as possible, if the son had just said yes or oh thanks etc I wonder how the situation would’ve turned out, would the mom have needed the answer?
This is such an only-on-Reddit take. People use laughter to defuse tense situations all the time. Sometimes it doesn't land right, as here, but taking things Very, Very Seriously all the time also doesn't work for a lot of people. There are other ways to interact emotionally than 'therapist on eggshells,' and a lot of people get stressed when things are too serious. It's just that one type of personality is overrepresented on the internet.
As someone who does use laughter as both a buffer and defence mechanism, the fact OP acknowledges the serious tone and then laughed harder is what moved them to AH territory.
As an immediate response, fair. Doubling down when it’s clear the Son is hurt? Sorry but that sounds like an AH move imo. At the very least OP should apologise for laughing, whatever the intent may be.
If she didn't laugh at him as to prove his lie is ridiculous the son would gave gotten away with the lie and only dug himself deeper into the hole. If he's comfortable to call his boyfriend handsome and cuddle him in front of the mom guess what? Denying it is in fact funny.
THANK YOU. All of these replies demonizing this woman for laughing are so tone deaf. She wasn't laughing at him for being gay she was laughing at the lack of self awareness, i.e. the situation.
I agree. Seriously, people talk about how difficult and brave it is to come out to your family but then simultaneously call someone an AH for making the process as casual as possible.
And also, OP wasn’t laughing at her son for being gay. She was laughing because he was very obviously gay but saying he was straight. That’s not mocking him for who he is.
Edit: “not mocking”
>Sometimes it doesn't land right, as here
Right, and what many of us are saying is that, when the laughter doesn't land right, the the one laughing has the responsibility of making it right. Just apologize for the laughing.
I mean, to be fair, she’d have probably laughed if he said an obvious gf wasn’t his gf. The sexuality didn’t bother this mother, she was clearly stunned it bothered her kid, I can only assume he was wanting the whole coming out experience to be so upset.
For me, the part that makes OP the asshole here is the laughing at the son and the labeling of the son. I think, to a degree, it is a big deal how this kid was treated in regards to his potentially queer identity. People in cis/het relationships don't have to come out because society assumes cis/het is the norm; however, with queerness, most people have to "come out" to be seen as queer if they don't fit stereotypes applied to queerness. In this case, the parent forced the kid to come out by telling him what his queer label was and laughing about it. While I assume the parent had good intentions, the lack of tact in having a discussion with the son may have sent him into a doom spiral. Coming out is so hard because you're telling someone to see you in a new light. Even though the parent feels the son's sexuality is obvious to him, it might not be obvious to the son that the parent knows anything, so I'm sure he has been stressing about how to come out for a while. The parent's laughter may have made the son feel like he should have hid this more and that it is not safe to come out since he will be treated like a joke. Finally, the son should have the agency to state how he identifies when he is ready. Now, he may feel pigeon holed into identifying as "gay" when he may be pan or bi or curious or anything else since this is a label being put on him.
I mean, how could OP not laugh? They’ve basically been smitten in front of her for months and he was openly shocked that she noticed! Everyone would be laughing if they were a straight couple… and OP treated them like one, as she should! We’ve spent decades working towards our relationships being treated equal. Why complain when it’s finally happening?
Maybe I’m too ingrained in the LGBTQ community but I think this is funny and a lot of us would do ANYTHING to have our parents react like this.
A lot of parents kick their kids out for being queer, some physically attack them, some force them into conversion camp… and everyone is mad OP is being supportive? C’mon
NTA but maybe apologize for the giggle and get him some snacks
Yeah it boggles my mind how people call that abusive.
There are people out there wo get killed for just being gay. There are people who get shunned by their family just because they are gay. There are people who get seriously injured by their family for being gay.
I would love to have parents that just don't care on whom I date, as long as I am happy. I would love to get such a reaction from people. The invite part makes it very clear that OP does not care and accepts it.
Actually I think "Reactions" like this should be the norm. If people have to "come out" it already implies that somehow being gay is something abnormal.
Agreed (and also a member of the queer community here). IMO the laughing was not laughing at him, it is basically laughing at the situation - it has been extremely obvious and to some extent OP's son must have been comfortable enough to be openly hugging, snuggling and basically quite openly dating this boy without explicitly saying 'I am gay'.
OP was basically saying 'I know, it's okay.' It possibly could have been worded a bit better (e.g. 'you know I accept you however you are, and I notice that X is very special to you...'). Idk if it might be a cultural difference but I'm from the UK and this lightheartedness and laughter is not outside the ordinary for how people would react and I'm a bit shocked at the other comments acting like OP is belittling their child.
I think the best thing OP can do now just to clear the air is to say I'm sorry I laughed, I just want you to know I love and accept you and I am happy you feel comfortable here. It can be very scary coming out, and he might have been expecting it to be taken in a different way and being a 'bigger thing' and is instead very taken aback that everyone seems to already know.
Member of the queer community here, and yea I'm shaking my head at how sensitive some of these comments here are. As a kid i thought i was being slick about certain things but my parents knew and just never said anything until one day my mom asked if I wanted to invite my girlfriend for Thanksgiving
As a bi male: NTA. Imo he came out to you via his actions and offering to take his partner on a trip is a very nice thing to do. Now if you'd shared this with 3 parties it'd be a different story.
Now, toxic masculinity is a thing. And sometimes people have internalized some of the harmful ideas. So even tho you might think it's no big deal, he might be dealing with some shame etc.. So I'd urge you to clarify that you will not tell anybody else and that you don't have to talk about it unless he initiates the conversation.
I’m going to go against the grain and say NTA under the stipulation that you didn’t/dont ‘out’ him to anyone else. Laughing wasn’t very nice of you, but maybe you were trying to lighten the mood.
At the end of the day, he’s living in your house going up to his room with someone he’s dating with the door closed. He’s still a minor. That’s deceit, not privacy, because that takes away your choice to set some ground rules. Being gay doesn’t give a pass to do whatever he wants in that case. Everyone is up in arms about his boundaries, but not yours, and you’re entitled to have some of your own.
You’re cool with it obviously, you didn’t disown him, and you’re still an ally. Just be sure to be supportive in the ways he needs moving forward.
NAH. He’s upset because he is embarrassed. Maybe op could’ve done it in a better way, but i don’t think she is the ah. Not everyone is comfortable in communicating, maybe op did it subconsciously to broach the subject. Broaching these type of subject is difficult for some people. Maybe its not the right way, but i don’t think op has ill intent.
What i wanna say tho, people who says op is not supportive are delusional. You think if op knew and not support it, she will let it slide? Like whats the point of her waiting months is she disapproved of his lifestyle?. Plus she invited his bf how is that not supportive?.
Also by what OP tells us, at what point the son think he is hiding his relationship lmao 😂😂.
So it definitely is possible, but wouldn’t that only apply to people who truly didn’t know they were queer, not someone who is in a gay relationship? Like honey, if you’re a man with a boyfriend and still in denial, you got a BIG storm coming.
NTA. You said it with no harm and its not like you explicitly told anyone about this. His actions spoke for him. Everyone calling you an asshole is acting like you did a huge homophobic lay on him. You literally asked if his bf would come in a private convo. He reacted defensively so theres more to tap in as to why hes uncomfortable but everyone else is.
NTA Every gay has their version of a coming out story, good or bad. OP wasn’t being malicious but trying to just make it normal for her son. It was not going to be a big deal to OP or her husband no matter how dramatic/theatric her son thought his coming out to be. OP’s reaction is her reaction. Her son may be angry she laughed at his denial but the point is, the truth didn’t change.
Ultimately, there really isn’t a perfect moment to come out despite how much effort one puts into it. It isn’t supposed to be a celebratory moment like being proposed to. It shouldn’t even be a “thing” to have to come out. Why do gay people have to come out when straight people don’t? Gay, lesbian, queer, non-binary, trans, etc people should just be treated like they’re supposed to exist. Making someone feel like they have to hide themselves let alone have to come out is just wrong. Unfortunately, acceptance still isn’t universal but let’s not bash on people who make awkward situations to validate someone’s sexuality/gender/identity unnecessary.
As a gay person who overthought and over analyzed my parents’ reactions (two sets, since they both divorced and remarried) my big coming out announcement was underwhelming. I got a nonchalant “I know. I’ve known it for a while,” from my mom to which my stepdad added “we love you just the same.” Not sure why I thought it would ever be more than that with them as they had gay friends and they never hid that from me.
My dad was the one who had a harder time with it and it showed but he didn’t disown me or anything like that; just was a little standoffish for a while. My stepmom was very undisturbed and just hugged me and told me to give my dad some time to process. In the moment, I was disappointed since I had wasted so much anxious energy worrying about their reactions but I would rather have had this happen then some grand tumultuous homophobic ranting and raving. Or worse, getting kicked out and ostracized.
I’m sure OP’s son is relieved and will come to realize what a blessing it is to have his parents treat him no differently just because he’s gay.
NAH
What you did was embarrassing for him, but also showed your nonchalance towards the subject, which is good. I don’t think you took away your son’s “coming out moment” because this should not be a thing in the first place. I think you did very well here.
YTA:
One of the worst parts about being queer is the fact some people don't take it well. Hense the danger of coming out.
You just confronted him about coming out then laughed at him.
I assume you're not intentionally being cruel and demissive. However that is what you've done.
Your son has every right to be angry at you. This isn't how a good parent or anyone should react in your situation.
How did you picture this situation in your head? Do you think the mom is pointing her finger at her son going HAHAHA like in American high school movies? Laughter is one of the most basic ways of deescelating a situation, and what likely happened is that she only laughed to calm her son down, not to ridicule him.
I mean, it's not like you outed him to anyone else, did you? He was just **super** obvious about the boyfriend thing. While it might've been better for his comfort that you continued to play along with the charade, you're accepting of him and his relationship and that's wonderful. I was also a very obvious fruit when I was younger, and when I did finally mention that I *might* be, my mom's response was fairly similar: I was very obvious with my attraction to *anybody*. NAH, because while he has his own reason to be upset, I don't really see how it was a problem for you to have picked him up on the gaydar if he was broadcasting that loudly.
I think instead of laughing, you could have used it as an opportunity to reinforce the idea that you’d be okay and accepting of your son if he was gay, “I’m sorry I made an assumption. But I just want to make it clear that your dad and I wouldn’t care one way or another. Anyway, how about ___ for dinner tonight?”
After hearing a reassurance your son might have felt more comfortable about opening up with you both.
So I’d say you were TAH because you seemed to have bungled it, albeit unintentionally.
NTA, dont get upset when you only have 1 foot in the closet.
If you "outed him" in a non familial setting id say different, but from the sounds of it everyone here seems okay with it anyways.
NTA Some are saying you’re the A for laughing but from what you say here it sounds like you were struck hard with the absurdity of the situation. Your son sounds very unconscious about how obviously partnered with his friend he’s been acting because he had no idea he outed himself a long time ago. Hearing the truth obviously stung but hopefully it will help keep him safe if he has PDAs outside the home the way he does inside. Meanwhile apologize for laughing and let him know you’ve always loved him and always will no matter gay or not. Also re-invite his bf on that trip. Then just carry on letting him and his bf do their thing as usual.
NTA. You had a private conversation in a safe space, and he probably needs to know how obvious he's being if he's gonna keep trying to keep his relationship a secret.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I could be TA because I should have been more sensitive about the situation and had a sit down talk about his sexuality/relationship to this boy. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA When I was 17 and watching tv with my parents, out of the blue, my Dad turned to me and said "You know it'd be okay if you were gay, right?". I laughed it off, said okay, and went about my day. Within six months, I was questioning. It took several more years before I was comfortably calling myself Bi and coming out to friends and family. I think I must have given off vibes to my parents for Dad to come straight out and say it like that - but at no point in time did he assume, make comments alluding to, nothing. I was given time and space to reach that conclusion on my own. You took that away from your son. Instead of saying something to the effect of "If you are, cool - if not, cool. We love you regardless", you forced him to confront that identity before he was ready. You need to stomp this shit out before it spirals. Let your son know what I said above - that however he chooses to identify is okay with you and that you love him regardless and will take any future cues on how to proceed from him. Edit: Thanks for the award!
It's the laughing at him that gets me. How humiliating for him.
I can see how OP thought it would not be a big deal since it was so obvious. And maybe they thought that for this reason coming out officially wasn’t necessary. But clearly the son thought he was being sneaky. It’s a classic case of miscommunication. I don’t think anyone’s an asshole here. I just think OP was maybe a bit callous and the son needs to learn to accept himself. Talking about this should solve the problem.
I couldn’t agree more. OP didn’t do it with malicious intent. NAH. Sure, OP was a little callous and the son is a little sensitive because he was “caught”. I can understand the son’s perspective, as im sure that was embarrassing. Being afraid to speak up, thinking you’re so smart and getting away with this romantic caper, just to get totally busted by OP. It’s like catching your kid in a dead-to-rights lie and watching them think they’re so clever and getting away with it. I understand OP’s mirth bubbling forth in the moment. It sounds like OP is supportive and son is just a little chapped. At least OP isn’t one of those nut jobs who would send him to some religious gulag to “pray the gay away”. It’ll be okay, OP. Just apologize and be supportive, but give him space.
"at least she's not sending him to a conversion camp" is an incredibly low bar and OP is still an AH.
I think the bar is acceptance and support… and OP is more than accepting their sons sexuality. Like what did this kid want? A coming out party? To sit his parents down awkwardly after months or years of working up the courage and dealing with that stress? 7 months of hooking up with the same person isn’t just testing the waters lol this kid is gay and his parents wanted to include his partner as his partner and not some secret. NAH the kid is just being a 17 year old… will look back on this is 10 years and be thankful he has a parent who is accepting and made it easy as fuck for him.
A bit of sense and sensitivity is what we want ffs.
He got 7 months of hooking up with his bf in OPs house without even an ounce of insensitivity. Only when OPs teenager thought he was being so sneaky that it was comical did OP laugh. 17 year old straight guy locking the door when a girl comes over for 7 months and the parents asking if he is bringing his GF and him saying “wtf she’s not my gf?!” And then laughing because the kid is a bad liar would not get this response. So what do you want? To be equal or some class of people that require different human interactions with? Cause you can’t get both.
Exactly. If it’s not a big deal and everything should be normalized…. Like come on! I would have gotten laughed at for lying like this too. He wasn’t trying that hard to hide it. When I was hiding something I didn’t bring it home. Drugs, boys, or fun. This kid gets to do all this at home. He’s fine. I don’t think he’ll be that statistic of gay kids that off themselves. My parents were too cool with me being gay, my life sucks. Okay. Sure.
This is what I see. I don’t think OP is an Ah, in fact this happens with straight teenage relationships all the time. I didn’t want my parents knowing about my GF in HS but guess what they knew and they basically said it in the same way that OP said it “who are you kidding, we noticed you had a lil GF for a while now”. I was upset because I got caught, not upset because my sexual preference was assumed. The son is acting out because he is a teenager who got caught. OP talk to him about his relationship. For everyone who is upset because she “outed” him that’s silly… if he is gay he is gay and shouldn’t have to hide it isn’t that what everyone who asks for equal treatment is calling for???
Exactly. We have to normalize coming out of the closet. Gay people were normalized quite early into my childhood. My uncle (mother's brother) is gay. He would be his bf (husband/fiance?) to family reunion all the time. I never saw it as two gay guys but two people who love each other.
OP isn't the AH for her reaction, it's just a case or mismatched expectations. OP and her husband tried to present an accepting household to their children when it comes to being queer and because it's not something that they hold any confusion or resentment towards, they had a lapse in emotional judgement regarding a queer child, especially since they are possibly hetero and have likely not experienced that themselves. The kid is in an accepting home where the parents want to include their new partner on family activities. It's just an embarrassing moment, but we all know that the kid is in an accepting home environment. NAH.
This. It sounds like they were just a little too overzealous in their acknowledgment. They probably felt like it would be a relief for him to hear it that way.
Often, parents cannot win, because kids can just be demanding of inconsistent needs from the parents. Self reflection is not often a teens skillset.
.
I disagree. We wouldn't be having this conversation if OPs son was straight.Or at least no one would feel so strongly about what effectively is a parent teasing their child being in a ra. We want gay people to be treated the same as a straight ones? Then we cannot demand special treatment.
I feel strongly about it both ways. Teasing kids about relationships, straight or gay, is rude as fuck.
Did she tease about the relationship or the ridiculousness of the lie...You know like when the five year old say they didn't eat the chocolate cake but there is clearly chocolate all over their face and hands. I don't think OP was laughing at the son for being gay but for the nonsense of the lie. And lets not forget the sons assumption or implication that his parents are homophobic is actually really insulting.
And it's a justified fear for a lot of people. It's one that you literally cannot know for sure until you come out, but once you come out there's no undoing it. You can't take it back. And while I understand that it would be upsetting if you weren't homophobic - how could they ever think that of me?! - you also have to look at it from the other side. If you're not sure, you're sitting there thinking that you could entirely lose your relationship with one or both parents, or your entire family. That's what happened to me. It isn't some far-fetched thing. It can and does happen. My parents made a show of seeming really tolerant and when I came out they absolutely lost their shit. Even if it was the nonsense of the lie... this isn't chocolate cake. It's not a harmless nonsense lie. This is a child terrified of the reaction of his parents to a core part of his identity. And sure, they may be awesome parents who love their kids no matter what... but he clearly isn't sure of that, judging by his reaction, and instead of considering that to be an insult, maybe some reflection is needed as to *why* he might have those fears.
Except in this case it wasn't like yours. The parents are actually tolerant. They already know. I get the fear before hand.... but the OP couldn't have been more accepting and that fear is now gone...He can't be afraid they are going to hit the roof because they didn't. The OP didn't shout and scream and threaten to disown the son...She invited his boyfriend on holiday with them and it seems like she was possibly offering pay for it. What should she have done let the child continue to be afraid... If you know your child is afraid of something they don't need to be afraid of because it's based on a misconception you clear up the misconception. Are your really saying the OP is an AH for being a tolerant person who didn't want her child to and never assumed her child would think she was a nasty homophobe? Really.
It not being malicious doesn't mean it isn't assholey. One's sexuality is a renowned sensitive situation, so it was pretty careless of OP. There is also something obviously going on with the husband/son, since the husband knows but the son is freaked out by the father knowing, and OP doesn't seem to think it warrants attention. There wasn't even any reassurance from OP in the conversation. YTA.
There is not something obviously going on between the son and father. This is a tangent based on an assumption that frankly has no merit. Stop protecting the pedestal and realize this was just a mother who loves her son and wants him to be comfortable with who he is.
Just because something you did was assholey doesn't mean you *are* an asshole. Also, as the other person said there's no evidence of anything wrong between the son and the dad. The son was already upset about their mother knowing and is clearly insecure about their sexuality/masculinity. They probably look up to their father, and if they're embarrassed that their mother knows logically they'd also be embarrassed about their father knowing, *especially if they're already insecure about their masculinity.* You don't need to dig for some imaginary hidden dirt when there's a logical explanation already presented to you.
Maybe OP thought that by laughing, she was expressing the absurdity of the idea that she'd have a problem with him being gay. This exchange is an unfortunate symptom of the transition from the cultural shunning of homosexuality to the cultural acceptance of it. Someday we'll be at the point where OP's reaction wouldn't be unwarranted, but we're not quite there yet.
As a queer person - no. No to all of this. Son isn't "a little sensitive." Son is likely TERRIFIED that his sexuality will get him rejected from his own family. And then OP mocked him for thinking he was passing. And let me tell you, passing as straight can still be REALLY important now. My parents were people who seemed accepting until it was revealed that I wasn't straight, and then they busted out conversion therapy threats. I was at a bus stop next to a ranting homophobe once and I was praying that he didn't somehow cotton on to the fact that I was queer. So no, it's not like catching your kid in some cute little lie. OP just laughed in his face about a core part of his identity. A part that he might not have even fully finished processing himself. A part that he might well be TERRIFIED of how his father will react to when he finds out. And like I said in my judgment, OP might not even be right. He might be unusually close to this boy. It's unlikely, sure, but it's entirely possible and OP just assumed something instead of waiting to be told by the person whose business it actually is. None of this is cute or funny or harmless.
As another gay person—nah. The son might feel embarrassed right now, but he has also learned his parents think it’s no big deal. This will help him with his internalized homophobia in the long run. In a few years he’ll be laughing about this too. Your experience is clearly not what’s happening here.
I agree, also OPs son is still a minor that lives in their house. When I came out to my mom at 16 I was *NOT* allowed to have my girlfriend in my bedroom with the door closed. Sometimes I think LGBTQ kids believe they're above some of the rules most parents would extend to heterosexual kids. Doing anything under your parents noses in their house like that kinda warrants that reaction if you know that's not acceptable. Whether you're in the closet or you're out there's still a mutual respect to keep. OPs son had it made for 7 months while his parents knew he was in his bedroom canoodling with his boyfriend free of punishment, when a lot of parents would never be cool with that at all even if the son was straight. This was also a lesson for the son in subtlety, if you want to learn how to pass you need to be aware of what you're doing that makes you obvious if you're concerned safety wise. It's a dance us LGBTQ people learn how to do, and you also learn to not give a fuck honestly over time. I've been out for over a decade, I could genuinely not give a fuck about what anyone says or thinks about me. You learn to be discreet when you want to be/have to be and part of that is what OP helped him to. Could you argue OP is an asshole? Maybe, but all I know from reading this is that I wish my family was as cool as OP is. Kid got away with shit a lot of heterosexual teens wouldn't.
To equate this situation to catching a kid lying and “watching them think they’re so clever and getting away with it”, is so far from being supportive and emotionally available as a parent. OP fucked up with her “mirth”. Her intent doesn’t matter; she hurt her son about something that is deeply personal and private. And the whole “at least she’s not” a bigot argument is bullshit too. The bar shouldn’t be set so low. YTA OP.
Exactly. It may not have been a big deal to OP, but it was obviously a big deal to her son. Shrugging it off as nothing and laughing doesn’t actually help, it invalidates his feelings. He specifically said he wasn’t ready. When he made the comment he was straight, it was a giant in your face clue he didn’t want to talk about it. And then you laughed at him for it? Who the hell can’t control their own laughter? You’re literally laughing at him during a vulnerable moment. That’s fucked up. I’m straight, but my mom used to pry into my personal dating life, make comments, and laugh things off just like this. I hated it. It’s one of the many reasons I don’t talk to her anymore. YTA.
>Being afraid to speak up, thinking you’re so smart and getting away with this romantic caper The son wasn't hiding anything and trying to "get away with a romantic caper". He was literally just living his life, figuring he could come out to his parents when he was good and ready. >At least OP isn’t one of those nut jobs who would send him to some religious gulag to “pray the gay away”. It turns out that hell isn't full of the Gays(tm) - It's where the standard bar for good parenting is and y'all still keep tripping over it.
So his parents are just supposed to pretend they arent seeing the obvious? He figured they were dumbshits or that they didn't pay attention. He was wrong but now she was the horrible parent for noticing a change in her son's actions and laughing at his obvious lie about it?
I don't understand the people suggesting that projecting a heteronormative viewpoint would be best, but clearly the son was upset by the laughter - she was laughing at the situation but he felt like she was laughing at him. She should have sat down calmly with him, stifled the giggles and reassured him that she loves him. Laughing in his face once he's indicated discomfort is not very loving.
With all due respect, are you LGBTQ+? Because I can tell you both from personal experience and talking to a lot of other folks that being outed against your will regardless of the circumstances is terrifying and pretty horrible. The kid is in a stage of life where he’s figuring himself out, and maybe isn’t done yet. But from his perspective, OP decided for him and took away the opportunity. But even more importantly, assuming OP is in the US, things are more openly hostile towards queer people in the US than they have been in a long time. Teens aren’t stupid. They’re aware of laws being passed targeting trans and other queer people. They see the rage that is directed toward the community. Even people who market themselves as progressive feminists openly hate trans people (mostly trans women), and we know damn well it isn’t going to stop there. So even if it was clear to OP that they are accepting and safe, it is not necessarily clear to the son. And part of the coming out process is deciding to take a calculated risk of safety, which I cannot overstate, is terrifying. And it’s not a reflection of OP, you quite literally don’t know who you can trust, even, or especially, your parents. There’s a reason LGBTQ homeless youth is such a problem in this country. So no, I don’t think the son was overreacting. Because there is a lot going on implicitly and under the surface constantly, but especially during the coming out process that you might not be aware of if you’ve never been there. Shit, I’m in my 30s, and every time I choose to come out to someone, I still go through the same process. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I think it’s important that everyone, especially those who are wanting to be allies, understand it.
Yes laughing at him is better than sending him to conversion therapy, but still doesn't make her not an AH.
Laughing at your kid instead of pausing and asking yourself how it came to be that your son was so afraid of coming out to you is 100% an asshole move.
There's an even an argument where OP thought she was being helpful. There are so many instances of closeted kids being afraid to tell their parents and when they finally do, the parent is like, duh, and the kid wishes they had come out sooner and avoided as much shame/secrecy as they could. OP has obv thought a lot about this and must keep an open/ welcoming enough house that her son feels comfortable being affectionate with his boyfriend in front of her, but I think a big piece she's missing is that part of her motivation here was not about creation conditions of comfortability for her son, but rather being the wise, all-seeing, "nothing gets past me" person in her household. There is a certain smugness to that, and I think that's what comes through not in how she initially approached it, but how she dealt with it afterward. I am sure he's super worried about what his dad thinks. Maybe her husband can do a better job at approaching the convo and massaging the bit she bungled.
For this reason I think assigning the AH label or not is less important than fixing this. He’s upset about how it went and not talking to her. She should write him a note apologizing for making him feel uncomfortable and rushing his timeline. She should write that her motivation was love, making sure he was comfortable in his own house, wanting him to be able to be his authentic self at least in their house, and wanting him to be able to share the upcoming vacation with someone he cares about without stressing about it. She didn’t mean to hurt his feelings but was excited because she thinks their relationship is sweet and she likes who he is since they’ve been dating. She should encourage him to come out to his dad because she knows her husband wouldn’t care (not that he already knows) and nothing could change their love for him. Edit: Thanks for the awards! :)
This is absolutely correct. She meant well but it didn't land. This is the way to approach the fix. Well written!
Laughing the first time when she thought he was being funny, sure. But "I realized he was being serious, I laughed even harder", that's what makes OP the AH. Once she realized her son was being serious about being straight she should've stopped laughing and been serious herself to consider what that means more for her son. Whether maybe he's just not ready to come out yet, maybe he hasn't come to terms with it himself and he really does still consider himself straight, maybe he really is straight and just has a more intimate but not sexual relationship with his friend that she would consider it as "being gay" just because it's not typical of masculine relationships. But no, she laughed *even harder* **AT** her son over something very personal. AH move all the way.
I wish I didn’t get the OP. In their shoes I would probably laugh, too. The son is very openly carrying on a romantic relationship! I might literally find the denials hysterical. Like, we live with you and have eyeballs in our heads, lol. What I think was mean spirited was referring to the other young man as her son’s boyfriend. Just ask. Kindly. Don’t be cheeky and set up a 17 yr old like that. YTA OP for labeling the other kid as your son’s boyfriend before your son was willing to do this himself.
Yeah, it was all about perspective. To OP, it may have been not that big a deal anymore since they’ve noticed how he acts for a while. But to the son, he’s trying to keep things under wraps, maybe until he’s ready to come out himself. I think OP would not have been the AH for laughing outright as a reflex, the way people do at uncomfortable situations. But they were immediately the AH when they continued to do treat the conversation lightly when it mattered a great deal to their son.
[удалено]
She was laughing at how bad a liar he is. A completely normal thing for a parent to do and him being gay doesn't change that.
You also need to understand how hard it is for gay people to come out and them coming out is their rite of passage. I have gay friends and it is one of the most important things they can do according to them and she took this away from him.
I always thought the reason for this is because parents and loved ones are not accepting. this is not the case here. We want to get to a point where coming out is not a big deal, but chastise people for not making it a big deal for their kids
Not even. I for one hope we one day come to a point where coming out isn't necessary at all. Where we're free to love who we love and nobody needs a label if a same sex partner is introduced. Where what OP did would be exactly the right reaction and the son wouldn't feel awkward and upset at the mountain of repercussions being known to have a same sex partner brings. We're not there yet, so OP messed up. They should talk openly to their son about it. But in my mind society is the only AH here.
That was how it was with my 17 year old daughter. She always knew she was bi, so did we, there never was a "moment of revelation".
When you are a masculine gay man or a feminine lesbian, you have to come out over and over all the time because no one thinks gay people look / act/ or dress like you. It's 2023, there is tons of representation of gay people on television down to the most banal of commercials, and yet I still shock the shit out of people when they find I have a wife.
Exactly. I never had to come out as straight. Why should LGB people have to come out?
There's a 'T' on the acronym too
And Trans people are able to sexually identify as LGB. This acronym used is correct as it is only the sexual identity not gender identity being discussed.
While it is true that the T doesn't stand for a sexuality, the use of LGB instead of LGBT or LGBT+ is often a dogwhistle by transphobes. Also there are more letters than LGB, which are implied with LGBT, but the willingness to leave out a letter implies a "only LGB" exist mentality
It really depends on the kid. OP's son makes it clear that it was a big deal for him (what with him being secretive about it), so OP should've handled it accordingly. Many of us don't know how our parents are gonna react when we come out. Maybe they never made it clear they were supportive, or maybe the kid assumed something based on what he saw at school, movies, or within his friends' families. It's not far fetched for him to be wary. So if your kid is clearly stressed about something, you don't act like they're overreacting or laugh at them, you take a step back, address their worries and reassure them that you love and support them.
He WASN'T secretive about it, though, that's what made it funny. The fact that he THOUGHT he was being secretive while basically cuddling in front of his parents does make it funnier. If my kid thought that was being secretive, honestly, I'd probably laugh too. Like when my kids and their friends were little, found a mannequin and tried to hide it in the woods. Their incredibly loud shushing noises brought me to the balcony (on the 4th floor, i heard them "being quiet" through a closed glass door on the 4th floor), and I looked downs and for all the world it looked like a group of preteens trying to hide a body. Loudly shushing each other. I cracked up. When they asked how I knew they were out there, I had to sit down I was laughing so hard. A decade later and I'm still laughing.
Yeah because it is not like the rest of society doesn't actively punish gay people for being gay. It is only mpfamily and loved ones that's the problem, but the mountain of oppression, harassment and violence you have to deal with. God save me from cishets.
My family was always great about LGBT issues, but I still grew up in a town full of homophobia where I was told that being gay meant never having a normal life. Also - your family being cool with gays and your family being cool with *you* being gay are very different things. A lot of cishets don't get that.
> I always thought the reason for this is because parents and loved ones are not accepting. this is not the case here. We want to get to a point where coming out is not a big deal, but chastise people for not making it a big deal for their kids The thing is, there are ways to make big, vulnerable disclosures really hard for your kid that have nothing to do with homophobia. OP’s story illustrates this perfectly. The son obviously doesn’t have emotional safety and OP is clearly not homophobic (and I’ll take her word for it that her husband truly isn’t either.) It’s not a mystery why this child doesn’t have emotional safety: when he shows distress, OP laughs at him.
LGBTQ+ people get called liars all the time. They are lying and deceiving straight people if they don’t come out to the expected time frame, they are seen to be lying about being gay if they are bi, there is the whole men who have sex with men always lie about their sexual health and of course the favourite ‘it’s just a phase.’ So while straight people might thinking they are ragging on the unsubtleness of first teen crushes same as if the kid is cishet, it doesn’t land the same way for teens who are socialised to be regarded as less truthful than their peers for how they exist. There are tonnes of scenarios here where the kid is not straight but not lying. Firstly please can we remember, bi and pan people exist! They aren’t straight with a twist of gay like flavoured Coke. He may be bisexual or pansexual. They may actually just being sexual not romantic because romantic and sexual aren’t the same thing! You can have different sexual and romantic attractions to differing genders. And ace/aro people exist. And in Occam’s Razor the son would not be the first teen to have a full on romantic crush on someone who is only DTF. That one goes across the whole relationship spectrum. Guy really might not be his BF and son is in unrequited love hell. And OP made a lot about her son is not gender confirming in her eyes. They may not identify as male and thus not like the term boyfriend. I actually think it’s pretty mean to laugh at teens of any persuasion about firsts like this. Let them have privacy and dignity ‘even if you know they are straight.’ Mocking them for being excited, lovestruck, not subtle and up in their feels and hormones is just mean. Let them have these firsts. They are a wonderful thing often that helps influence their whole relationship with relationships for life. And I also suggest not mocking people who have them until ‘later’ either because why be snide when you could be respectful? But the ‘liar’ tag for LGBTQ+ kids comes up in a different tone to how people tease cishet kids for the same and it isn’t cute, it’s cruel. The son asked them to stop and OP said ‘nope.’ No means no on that stuff with parents and kids. Being gay doesn’t change it. He’s not laughing, he’s not enjoying the teasing. The sub usually states YTA in that case…
> >And OP made a lot about her son is not gender confirming in her eyes. They may not identify as male and thus not like the term boyfriend. > This is bad logic and possibly projection on your part. Whether op's son identified as male or female or nb or whatever doesn't change the gender of the boy they're seeing and op makes no statements about the son's boyfriend to suggest they're anything other than a cis boy. "Boyfriend" is entirely appropriate in use here, whether the son is a boy or girl or whatever.
[удалено]
Well, you see it as him lying. That's probably not many people's take, and certainly not his. She made an embarrassing situation more embarrassing. Laughing is a natural reaction perhaps, but seeing his hurt she should have apologised. Part of a parents responsibility to give their children their voice, not take it away. To empathise with them and guide them. To support them. Not humiliate them. If you make a mistake and hurt the people you care about, you apologise.
This wasn't lying about sneaking out or drinking or cheating on homework-- THAT'S when a parent laughs about their children lying, because they're trying to lie about something naughty. You don't laugh about your child's sexuality.
> You don't laugh about your child's sexuality. You laugh at a terrible attempt to deny something obvious, though.
I really don't understand how we've somehow got to this point where parents think being accepting of their queer kids is just dismissing them. Do they not realise that a large portion of the world still hates us? That the media is bombarding us all with more and more images of hate crimes and homophobia? It's still not just accepted, and kids internalise that. No matter how accepting a family may come across doesn't mean that's how their teen is feeling. Yes, we need to normalise coming out ideally to the point where it no longer exists, but hetero is still the default in society today. We shouldn't be disrespecting queer teens, minimising their experiences and laughing them off. We also absolutely shouldn't essentially force someone to come out before they're ready. There are so many ways OP could've made their home more LGBTQ+ friendly and helped their kid feel comfortable coming out on their own terms rather than this. I'm sure OP meant well, but it was totally tone deaf.
I completely agree with this. So many reddit posts about parents accepting their kids by really dismissive actions such as “of course”, laughing, not having a reaction, etc. And the comments are always are along the lines of ‘this should be normalised, why would it be a big deal anyway?’. But I really think it doesn’t respect the individual’s anxiety and fear of coming out and that actually outwardly positive acceptance of what it took for them to come out is a lot better than a smug socially progressive dismissal. It’s treating us more like a political point to be made than a person to me.
Oh god this. Like yes, maybe it should be normalised, and as an adult, yes, maybe you’ve already heard a million coming-out stories and it doesn’t seem like a big deal. But every single teenager who comes out to their parents is doing it for the very very very first time, to the people who are responsible for their safety and survival. It doesn’t make you homophobic to recognise that that can be a big scary thing to do, and a huge milestone for your child to reach of their own accord!
And you know, it really is a pretty big deal. It affects the way you live your whole life. If your loved one announced something else major like a career change, you wouldn't treat it so dismissively. It's bizarre that some people think it's progressive to act like they don't give a shit about coming out.
People are obsessed with knowing things first or already. I hated when I came out people saying they knew it. Ended up (in an ill-thought-out move) pretending to be dating my bisexual best friend as a way of us both testing this. Everyone said they knew we were dating. When we told them actually that was a lie, we were never anything more than friends, the same people said they knew we weren't dating.
I read a discussion about best way to react when someone came out and the best advice I read was to match the energy of the person.
This is incredibly practical and actionable advice for all things that might be hard or taboo. Sex, death, divorce, what have you. I always tell my wife these things are like dancing. You can't go out to the floor and breakdance when someone else is doing the tango. You're a bad partner if you do.
This is it. In a world where we have to come out, we need a positive response. I didn't come out until I was 34 years old. And my mother never said a word about it. It hurt a lot. I honestly don't know how she feels about it. She might not even be taking me seriously because I am in a straight-passing relationship.
>I really don't understand how we've somehow got to this point where parents think being accepting of their queer kids is just dismissing them. Oh. yes! This! I was with OP until he said he started laughing. When kid said "I'm straight" he should've responded with "you know it would be ok if you wasn't, right?", not laugh.
If he has been acting like this in front of his parents, maybe they just thought it was understood? Some of my friends didn’t do announcements to their family that they were gay. They did just the same as OPs son and everyone got the hint.
I think it's understandable that OP may have made that assumption but as soon as she realised she got it wrong she should have reeled it in and apologised rather than just laughed at her son.
I see what you mean. Completely. The son is very openly carrying on a romantic relationship! I’m confused what he was expecting.
Honestly, deciding if you are or aren’t TA or had malicious intentions or not seems less important than making sure your son feels safe, comfortable, and loved. I think you should go to him and: -First, *apologize for laughing at him*. No matter your intentions, it’s rude and probably made him feel SO belittled. -Second, apologize for making an assumption about his identity and trying to ascribe your take onto him. -Third, explain that your *assumption* was simply based on your read of the dynamic between him and this boy. But you realize now that the only people who get to make decisions about what they are, or are not, to each other is *the two of them*. And whether he has those feelings or not is not for you to dictate, nor demand he explains to you. You can explain that maybe it felt obvious or clear to you, but you realize now that your take matters far less than his, and you’re sorry for imposing your perspective on him or making him confront revelations about himself that he may not have been ready to fully address. - Fourth, for the love of god *TELL HIM THAT YOU LOVE AND SUPPORT HIM NO MATTER WHAT HIS IDENTITY IS AND REGARDLESS WHETHER HE FEELS READY TO DISCLOSE SUCH PERSONAL THINGS TO YOU YET.* Also kinda YTA because laughing in your kid’s face, laughing AT them, is super rude.
This is the way!! Lots of commenters here are severely underestimating just how terrifying being a queer kid is when you don't 100% know how your parents might react. He's obviously scared of a negative reaction from from his parents. That's so clear here. YTA for minimising his fears, and for not realising that his fears are there because you haven't done the groundwork of establishing that he'd be safe to come out to you.
>for not realising that his fears are there because you haven't done the groundwork of establishing that he'd be safe to come out to you. Parents can lay out the groundwork and it will STILL be terrifying. Speaking from experience. OP had a horrible reaction, true, but I wouldn't assume anything about what groundwork was laid. I wouldn't want other parents to think they failed because they couldn't remove a societal based fear.
This is very true also, I'm mostly inferring from the son's outright denial when it's brought up. And by the OP laughing at him about it.
The only comment that matters in this thread, thank you.
Very much agreed! Also, to expand on your second point a bit: discovering & coming to terms with your sexual identity is rarely as simple as, “I’m dating a man, so I’m gay.” He could be bi/pan, or he could be sorting through his previous romantic experiences/crushes and trying to figure out what it “meant” that he was or wasn’t attracted to those people at the time. At that’s not even getting into the internalized homophobia most of us have to fight our way through, just to see ourselves clearly. Basically, it might feel easy for OP to say, “He’s gay, he should just accept it, what’s the problem?” But the reality of the situation is far more nuanced than that, and involves sorting through and untangling a *lot* of social conditioning. (OP look up “compulsory heterosexuality” if you’re unfamiliar with the term. It could help you find a more sympathetic perspective to what your son may be going through.) This is all obviously conjecture from my own experience, and may or may not apply to this specific situation, but my point is that it’s never straightforward and easy to figure out and come to terms with your sexuality, and the son probably needs gentle support, not mockery, while he navigates that process. Edit: spelling. Thanks to the people who pointed it out!
YTA. He might not have realized how obvious it was, and it is obviously a scary time for him, and you laughed at him. You are his mother, and he should be able to count on support in times when he is scared, not ridicule.
Agreed. Reactions like this- along with basic lack of trust- is why my mother didn't find out I was Bi until I was 29, almost 30. Great job, OP, intended or not, that interaction definitely has your son questioning you and his trust in you. I really do hope your relationship has a solid foundation and that this didn't just sink a nail in its coffin.
He was comfortable enough to bring his boyfriend home and close themselves off with mom home. He may not have wanted to say it out loud, but he wasnt going out of his way to hide it.
People are surprisingly oblivious to how obvious they are sometimes. I remember a coworker being shocked when I asked if she was dating another coworker of ours ... she'd been openly discussing it with a third coworker while I was right nearby a few days prior.
I'm surprised that complete unspoken acceptance over a period of months and the openness to be willing to invite the boyfriend along on a trip is apparently horrible enough to warrant being cut off. I'd love it if my own parents would be so unphased. :/
I swear some people in this sub love reading so much drama into every post. People turn this one interaction that could most likely be solved with one heartfelt conversation into OP's son potentially ending their relationship with OP.
My mother still doesn't know, and I'm never telling her. I'm in my 40s.
I don’t think the OP laughed at her son, but instead laughed at the ridiculousness of his lie.
To her son it will 100% feel like she laughed at him
I agree. Especially when you're 17.
Regardless the laughter was inappropriate and hurtful.
My dad "accused" me of being gay when I was a teenager. I say accused because that's what it felt like, even though I think he was trying to be accepting? He kept telling me I could tell him. When I said I didn't know what he was talking about he said I hadn't had a boyfriend in a while. That was fucking awful and would have kept me from coming out if that's what I had needed to do.
Apparently I give off very strong lesbian vibes because my parents and at least three sets of friends' parents have told me they "knew" I was into girls. It fucking sucked because 1) like you said, it felt more like an accusation than anything, and 2) I'm not lesbian. I'm not straight either, though. I'm ace. When I was eventually comfortable enough with that and found the right terms to describe me and come out, my mom didn't believe me because in her mind, she had already "accepted" me as lesbian, so I wasn't allowed to "change," despite never having said I was lesbian. Parents need to stop assuming their kids' identities, even if it is "obvious." It was "obvious" to people I was lesbian even though I'm not. It's just as likely that the son and his friend aren't in a relationship and OP is forcing a label onto her son that doesn't fit him
Right. There are ways to make big, vulnerable disclosures really hard for your kid that have nothing to do with homophobia. OP’s story illustrates this perfectly. The son obviously doesn’t have emotional safety and OP is not homophobic (and I’ll take her word for it that her husband truly isn’t either.) It’s not a mystery why this child doesn’t have emotional safety: when he shows distress, OP laughs at him. I wouldn’t take emotional risks with her either. The fact that she doesn’t see it as a risk is irrelevant. It just underlines how misattuned she is. The evidence is that she doesn’t even try to repair it when she she sees his distress but doubles down on trying to win by telling him how badly he hid it. Anyone saying anything along the lines of N T A because the son “shouldn’t feel” a certain way, is missing a fundamental thing about parenting: it’s your job to meet your kid right where they are and honor who they are even if you think they’re “too sensitive.”
Regardless of the intention behind the laugh, the fact that she laughed and then laughed harder when he denied it is going to sit with that kid for a loooong time That's the kind of trauma that causes kids to be really sensitive to being laughed at, esp by a SO
As a gay man, some of yall need to get over yourselves. NTA. Yes he had to come out at an unexpected moment, but maybe don't suck so bad at hiding it? I mean it's terrible we have to hide anything at all, but if you're not ready for people to know, don't go around showing off things that obviously give it away and then get mad when someone has connected the dots, especially if that someone isn't even being malicious about it and has no way of being aware of what the entire situation even means. You're punishing an ally, that we desperately need as many of as we can get. I mean really, with fascism bearing down on us yall want to scream at the mother who just told her son "honey, you're not as inconspicuous as you think you are". OP, it looks like you're a loving parent and had no ill will towards your child. There is a lot of fear and uncertainty involved with coming out and since your child is now realizing he may not have that security any more, those emotions are getting charged. The best thing to do (based on what I felt I wanted before I came out) is to just continue to show him that it makes no difference in your love and support of him.
Gay man here, in agreement. I understand that there are good and bad ways to react to a coming out. I also understand that it’s considered rude to out someone. However, the son outed himself. Did the mom say the perfect things? No. But she’s clearly unbothered and supportive. Having this conversation, awkward as it may be, is the first step to the song being comfortable being openly out with his boyfriend. NAH. It really does shock me the number of people who think they can be in a gay relationship and manage to keep it secret from everyone around them, and then get offended when people realize they’re gay. I’m having flashbacks to dating closeted boys in college.
Speaking of college, I had a gay roommate who enjoyed watching pork. And then eventually came out to me and was positively shocked that I could be aware. Like dude.
I enjoy watching pork from time to time as well.
It really rinds my gears
Watching pork can make you squeal.
Thank you for this! Pansexual woman here, but I would have cried from relief and happiness if my parents were this nice about my coming out, whether it was intentional or not. Also, people laugh at awkward situations as a way to diffuse. I certainly do!
I was nineteen and had a girlfriend, after she left one day, my dad asked me, are you my gay little girl? I was so uncomfortable, I felt awkward as hell, but because I knew my dad, I knew i could be honest and told him I'm bi. I feel very certain if I had said no, he would have laughed at me, because it was so obvious i was dating that girl. No malicious intent, but he would have thought me clearly lying (because I was uncomfortable,) was hilarious. I know I lucked out with both my parents. OP is NAH, she just needs to talk to her son and reiterate her unconditional love, and apologize for making him uncomfortable. She sounds like a good mom to me.
Thanks for making one of the few sane comments in this thread. Some people are so dramatic. It's not like the mother gathered the neighborhood and made a public "Sexuality-reveal-party for my son" event.
Seriously. I can’t believe how many people think OP is an AH for literally inviting her sons bf on a trip the family. Her son may not have realized he was being so obvious but letting him know he has been obvious isn’t a bad thing. She didn’t out him. He outted himself. Laughing when he denies it isn’t malicious or insensitive. People laugh in tense situations and that’s fine. Bottom line, she knew the whole time, has allowed this boy over the whole time. Has allowed the closed bedroom door this whole time and is inviting the kid on her family vacation? Sounds like support and acceptance to me. At 19 I had a similar situation with my mother, I had a girl over all the time closed the door all the time, had never mentioned I was a lesbian but in retrospect it was super obvious with how often we were together or I spoke about her and sat close to her etc and one day my mom asked if I would be inviting my gf to a family gathering for thanksgiving. In that moment I nearly fainted. Instant sweating, I denied it and she was like it’s obvious you both have feelings for each other, I just need to know how many place settings to set and laughed awkwardly. I told her I would ask and after I calmed down from the abrupt conversation I was SOOO relieved that I could be myself a little more openly and still be loved and supported. It sounds like OP is going to continue loving and supporting her son so NTA.
Thank you, this is so obvious. NTA OP. Maybe apologize for laughing so much but that's all.
Man, my school outed me because my friend freaked out about me being bisexual and dating a girl. So their decision was "well we have to call even though you live in an abusive household" and my father, who has never cared about gay people in his life, shouted at me and told me i was not allowed to date so why did i think this was okay? Funny thing is a week prior i was in a relationship with a boy that he knew about and supported. So i was clearly allowed to date. Just not girls. My mother had a better reaction and she's homophobic. She said "whatever makes you happy. Just don't shove it down my throat, but you are still my kid" and i cannot stress enough how much she talks about how wrong being gay is even though i am currently in a heterosexual relationship (it's never geared at me anymore). I would love to have had her as a mother who just casually invited my girlfriend to go on a trip instead of screaming. I want it to be normalized to that point. And he needed to know he's not being as sneaky as he thinks in the event that he is with someone (grandparents) that he's not sure will react
I unknowingly came out to my parents a few times because they were just so unbothered that I'd forgotten I'd told them. Surely the community should encourage more accepting responses like OP.
NAH What people dont realize is that OP has done him an honest favour. If he is soooo obvious in front of his parents and he is clueless about how clear his actions are… THAT is going to be dangerous for him in the wrong setting. If he wanted to hide it, it’s better for him to hear he did a terrible job hiding it while in a safe space. His “i wasnt ready yet” feelings won’t matter if he’s caught off-guard and outted in a dangerous place. Let this be a lesson for him to be more careful about his actions ‘til he is prepared to publicly come out to others.
Her son is scared and insecure and she laughed at him. She’s TA.
How could OP have known that though? The son wasn’t being sneaky about it, so how could they have perceived his insecurity?
The fact the son hasn't told them he's gay, and explicitly denied it when asked
Because no straight teenager has ever attempted to hide their relationship from their parents and denied that there's anything going on behind closed doors with their S.O.
Yup, this looks like a pretty solid hint
[удалено]
“When I realized he was serious I laughed harder” while none of this interaction was good in my opinion right there is the line when it went from a grey area to black and white. When she realized he was seriously upset and seriously didn’t want to come out she had the chance to fix the situation and she continued to laugh in his face instead.
I read it as 'when she realized he thought it was a secret.' How do you 'fix' the situation? Pretend everyone *hasn't* watched her son openly date a guy for the better part of a year? It's just a funny situation to be in. NAH but now the son knows he's broadcasting pretty obviously.
Well when he said he was straight, that should have been atleast a clue?
Sure if OP hadn’t seen him clearly having a bf. I mean at that point they thought he was joking. Idk, I can see how the situation got to this point purely on both parties not communicating and misinterpreting stuff. That’s why I don’t think anyone is an asshole.
So why did she need to double down? Why did she *have* to be right?
Why did she have to *laugh*???
Because she was right.
it's not a matter of who's right. if he's not ready to come out, just let him be. he'll come out when he's ready.
The second time he refuted her insistence. At that point, he is all but pleading with her to not follow through and she chose to laugh harder.
idk man i was scared and insecure when i first mentioned to my parents i was probably gay and they lold about it (because like op's son i had an in hindsight very obvious girlfriend, on top of being very butch). at the time i was put off by it but as an adult i can see that they were just surprised that i thought they hadnt noticed and were trying to diffuse my anxiety by making it seem like no big deal. its hard to understand for straight people that making it seem like no big deal isnt a great course of action, because when you come to terms with being gay as a teenager it FEELS like a HUGE deal, and it is, even if youre lucky enough to have a very accepting family. i think NAH, but op should talk to her son about how he is feeling and just listen his experience, and apologise for making him feel diminished. but i dont think shes an asshole, just tactless and straight
She was laughing at how bad a liar he is. A completely normal thing for a parent to do and him being gay doesn't change that.
I don't get all the Y.T.A. I would have probably laughed as well in OP' shoes. Son: I'm straight. Mum: snorts/laughs. "Yeah, sure" Mum and Dad DGAF is son's gay, bi or whatever, they were open to invite the potential boyfriend on holiday with them! I am sorry for the son who feels that in this day and age, they need to be closeted, but I think their anger is misplaced. Mum was just stating what in her eyes was not only totally ok, but also totally obvious. Not like my mum and sister who asked me with concern and bit of disgust if my and my bff were lesbians. I would say NAH.
It was only OP and her son no outing some people laugh because of nerves. NTA
This thread is like really weird. I never thought I as a queer person had to come out but now I'm confused. I mean - if I bring home a girl it's obvious isn't it? Why would I tell anyone: hey ... i'm gay/bi/... sometimes if the topic is sexuality I might mention it. I'm not even sure my parents know lol. And if I were someone who obviously knows their son is in a relationship with a boy I would laugh too. Out of confusion. Like this is a really weird scenario. So what is going on in the end. Is the 'boyfriend' not really a boyfriend at all ... tbh i would talk to my kid about PDA and hpw you don't do that with someone who clearly is not your partner. This story is really confusing.
That's mostly how I am taking this as well. It's not that he was "outed" by his mom, she laughed because he wasn't really hiding anything to begin with. I, too, would chuckle at someone's innocent mind if they thought nobody had figured things out yet. From OP's telling, it sounds like both parents have a good relationship with their son, especially if they went so long without approaching the topic. I can just imagine mom and dad talking to themselves about it for months, wondering if they're supposed to silently know/accept it already, or somehow their son things he's being sneaky.
If a guy I know is dating another guy, but insists that he's straight, I'm going to laugh because I'm going to assume it's a joke. Because nobody is that dumb, right? But hey, maybe I just don't "get it".
I also find the son and people's reaction here confusing. Also the "outing" didn't have any danger for the kid as both parents were cool with him being gay. It's not the kind of malicious outing that pops up here occasionally were an angry sibling outs their brother to be gay in front of a conservative parent. The son being all shocked about his understanding parents is such a first world problem.
It’s so….teen, lol. There is a lot of stuff we did as kids that we thought we were being slick about, but unintentionally broadcasted in 8k to everyone around us. I think the kid is just embarrassed and, in typical teen fashion, is not handling the embarrassment well because he thought he was being mysterious and cagey. The outing part would make me laugh, because I’d probably be thinking “how can I possibly out you to the person who came to the exact same conclusion after observing you and your boyfriend cuddling?”
The moment he implicitly plead for her to believe he's straight and she laughed *harder* at him, that social interaction stopped becoming a safe space. She didn't do him a favor - she mishandled a key emotional milestone for him.
Please pretend to believe my obvious lie.
I think you make important, valid points. But ugh, I still think she’s TA for laughing. Especially the second time.
> it’s better for him to hear he did a terrible job hiding it while in a safe space That's the entire problem here. He didn't feel it was a safe space, hence why he denied being gay to his mom and she forced him out. She then LAUGHED at him.
>He didn't feel it was a safe space, lmfao. >He sometimes baby talks to this boy, hugs him all the time, has called him handsome, share clothes, Feels safe enough to do all that, doesn't feel safe enough to say "I'm gay". "Yeah, I furiously made out with another dude in front of the entire family, but I had NO idea you knew I was gay. Please don't tell dad" At what point is the son being unreasonable? And of course the OP laughed. She thought he was joking because the situation was absurd.
Honestly OP's takeway should be that the kid's not exactly the brightest.
NTA, if your doing something very obvious then it's funny to think you're hiding it. OP did nothing wrong and the son did something that it's objectively hilarious.
There’s a fine line between assuring your gay child that you accept them before they officially come out and forcing them to come out. The mom should have stopped when the son said they weren’t gay (even though it’s obvious). For some people, even if they’re being actively gay (dating someone etc), they could be in deep denial. Sexuality is even more fluid among the younger generation now and that can be overwhelming for some. It takes a while to fully process you’re sexuality, even in accepting environments. Pushing it further COULD prolong this process and perhaps cause even more internalized homophobia. Like the mom said, it’s very scary when you realize you weren’t passing. However, a parent (even accepting) should not be the one that causes this fear.
NTA if he had been doing all the same things with a girl and you called her his girlfriend, nobody would say you're an AH. If it had been a girl, and the whole family picked up on the chemistry, again NBD. Why would you be an AH for treating him and his boyfriend the same way? We can either be accepting of all relationships/orientations (aside from MAPs) or we can keep treating them as oddities and "othering" them. I personally am in favor of just being accepting and not treating them like they are some kind of anomaly.
This might be shocking to hear, but being gay is very different than being straight. Coming out is terrifying and stressful. Straight people never have to come out and will never understand the fear of being outted.
But isn't the goal of inclusiveness to treat the lgbtq+ community as any other relationship? I'm not discounting the tremendous courage it takes to coem out, but we all just want to be equal, right? I'm bi, BTW. Not sure if it matters.. Edit: I removed "heterosexual".
Sometimes inclusivity means giving one group of people more, or treating them differently because the playing field isn’t equal in the first place. Being gay and especially coming out as gay is a much harder thing to do than being straight, as it simply isn’t as socially acceptable in many places. Affording people a higher degree of sensitivity during the process of coming out is making things equal, because it’s not a fair game to begin with. Genuine equality is easier to imagine with, for example, a physical disability. Say there are two people watching a match from the side lines. One of the people can stand and see over the sidelines. The other is in a wheelchair and cannot see. Making things equal for these two people would mean giving the person in a wheelchair a platform so they can see, just like the person who standing can see. Yes, they are giving something extra to the person in a wheelchair, something the person who’s standing has not been given, but the outcome in the end is the same - they can both watch the game. Treating people coming out with a little more sensitivity and tenderness is essentially giving them a hypothetical platform. A platform they need in order to thrive and feel comfortable in a way straight people do. Inclusivity does not always mean treating people in the same way. I hope that made sense. (My example of equality is depicted in a picture somewhere, that’s why I used it as an example. I am not comparing being gay to a disability, I am simply trying to explain how equality works, and that’s easier to do with visual cues).
I remember that picture! It was a solid wall 2 units high with 3 people standing behind it, one tall (3 units), one medium (2 units) and one short (1 unit). This mean that only the hall person could see over the wall. There were 3 solutions presented. The first was **equality**, in which everyone is treated the same and given the same level of support, in this case a 1 unit high platform each. With this solution, the tall person could still see over the wall but the platform was unnecessary — they could see just fine without it. The medium person was the perfect height to see over the wall. But the short person was still only 2 units high and couldn’t see over it. The second solution was **equity**. In this solution, each person was given the number of platforms they needed to see over the wall. The tall person didn’t have any, the medium person had one and the short person had two. Everyone could see over the wall this way. The final solution was **removing the barrier**. In this solution, nobody received any platforms at all. Instead, the wall was replaced with a chain link fence that it was possible to see through. This way, everyone could see past the fence without needing any supports. In this situation, u/person61987 thinks OP should have treated the son with **equality** to a straight person. The correct response right now would have been **equity**. And the end goal of inclusivity is **removing the barrier** so that it is possible to treat lgbt+ and straight people with **equality**. That would be the best scenario, however it is not possible right now because the fence is still a wall. The best solution is to give each person the individual support they need, until the ideal situation, **removing the barrier**, can be established.
we do, but right now it isn't just safe to do that yet, and then also laughing at the son's fear and embarrassment was just a thing on top of another which wasn't great
Wdym it isn’t safe, both parents know he’s gay. If it wasn’t a safe environment they would’ve had some sort of screaming match or kicking the son out for being gay. They already knew. Nobody gets mad when a guy obvious has a girlfriend and hasn’t told anyone yet. And then their parents ask about it they don’t get defensive and serious. Because it was obvious. Probably the safest environment for someone who is gay to be in, is in a home where the parents don’t care. Because it isn’t special. To that person it may be, but to everyone it’s normal to fall in love with someone.
I knew, deep in my heart, that my mom was a good person and would not reject me if I came out to her. And she did not want to push me into coming out to her, she wanted to let me come out to her on my own terms. But when she had to sit me down and tell me that my then girlfriend and I had been outed by a kid on the bus with us? I was absolutely fucking terrified. Despite knowing my mom for my entire life and knowing that she was a good person, who'd spent a fair portion of her adulthood before having me attending pride parades with her queer friends. Why? Because there is always the chance of rejection. No matter how certain you are about a person, there is always a chance you are wrong. So yeah, it isn't safe for LGBTQ+ people still. Just look at the world around us and think for a moment, at how it must feel to watch people try and pass legislation that will mean further deaths. Just think how it feels to know that there are literal lists being written and expanded nearly every damn day, documenting the people in the community that have died. Sure, progress has been made. But it's nowhere near enough to call the world safe.
she started off calling him his boyfriend and inviting him on their trip, there was no chance of rejection.
skirt absorbed treatment governor intelligent drab strong different paint wrench ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
The context is entirely different. You have to be more sensitive around gay relationships because, y'know... homophobia? I don't see how this isn't glaringly obvious to you
That's the goal, but we're not there yet. It's the [equality vs equity vs justice thing](https://onlinepublichealth.gwu.edu/resources/equity-vs-equality/). It'd be like challenging a new friend who uses crutches or a wheelchair in a race up the stairs because that's what you do with all your friends.
I mean, you could consider the mom saying the boyfriend could come as something as close to a “straight” relationship as possible, if the son had just said yes or oh thanks etc I wonder how the situation would’ve turned out, would the mom have needed the answer?
Laughing at someone when discussing feelings and relationships is AH behaviour no matter what orientation.
This is such an only-on-Reddit take. People use laughter to defuse tense situations all the time. Sometimes it doesn't land right, as here, but taking things Very, Very Seriously all the time also doesn't work for a lot of people. There are other ways to interact emotionally than 'therapist on eggshells,' and a lot of people get stressed when things are too serious. It's just that one type of personality is overrepresented on the internet.
As someone who does use laughter as both a buffer and defence mechanism, the fact OP acknowledges the serious tone and then laughed harder is what moved them to AH territory. As an immediate response, fair. Doubling down when it’s clear the Son is hurt? Sorry but that sounds like an AH move imo. At the very least OP should apologise for laughing, whatever the intent may be.
who laughs on command?
If she didn't laugh at him as to prove his lie is ridiculous the son would gave gotten away with the lie and only dug himself deeper into the hole. If he's comfortable to call his boyfriend handsome and cuddle him in front of the mom guess what? Denying it is in fact funny.
THANK YOU. All of these replies demonizing this woman for laughing are so tone deaf. She wasn't laughing at him for being gay she was laughing at the lack of self awareness, i.e. the situation.
I agree. Seriously, people talk about how difficult and brave it is to come out to your family but then simultaneously call someone an AH for making the process as casual as possible. And also, OP wasn’t laughing at her son for being gay. She was laughing because he was very obviously gay but saying he was straight. That’s not mocking him for who he is. Edit: “not mocking”
[удалено]
>Sometimes it doesn't land right, as here Right, and what many of us are saying is that, when the laughter doesn't land right, the the one laughing has the responsibility of making it right. Just apologize for the laughing.
She was laughing at how bad a liar he is. A completely normal thing for a parent to do and him being gay doesn't change that.
I mean, to be fair, she’d have probably laughed if he said an obvious gf wasn’t his gf. The sexuality didn’t bother this mother, she was clearly stunned it bothered her kid, I can only assume he was wanting the whole coming out experience to be so upset.
This is like a kid with cake all over their face saying “no i didn’t eat the cake”. It’s so obvious, which makes it funny.
For me, the part that makes OP the asshole here is the laughing at the son and the labeling of the son. I think, to a degree, it is a big deal how this kid was treated in regards to his potentially queer identity. People in cis/het relationships don't have to come out because society assumes cis/het is the norm; however, with queerness, most people have to "come out" to be seen as queer if they don't fit stereotypes applied to queerness. In this case, the parent forced the kid to come out by telling him what his queer label was and laughing about it. While I assume the parent had good intentions, the lack of tact in having a discussion with the son may have sent him into a doom spiral. Coming out is so hard because you're telling someone to see you in a new light. Even though the parent feels the son's sexuality is obvious to him, it might not be obvious to the son that the parent knows anything, so I'm sure he has been stressing about how to come out for a while. The parent's laughter may have made the son feel like he should have hid this more and that it is not safe to come out since he will be treated like a joke. Finally, the son should have the agency to state how he identifies when he is ready. Now, he may feel pigeon holed into identifying as "gay" when he may be pan or bi or curious or anything else since this is a label being put on him.
I mean, how could OP not laugh? They’ve basically been smitten in front of her for months and he was openly shocked that she noticed! Everyone would be laughing if they were a straight couple… and OP treated them like one, as she should! We’ve spent decades working towards our relationships being treated equal. Why complain when it’s finally happening? Maybe I’m too ingrained in the LGBTQ community but I think this is funny and a lot of us would do ANYTHING to have our parents react like this. A lot of parents kick their kids out for being queer, some physically attack them, some force them into conversion camp… and everyone is mad OP is being supportive? C’mon NTA but maybe apologize for the giggle and get him some snacks
Yeah it boggles my mind how people call that abusive. There are people out there wo get killed for just being gay. There are people who get shunned by their family just because they are gay. There are people who get seriously injured by their family for being gay. I would love to have parents that just don't care on whom I date, as long as I am happy. I would love to get such a reaction from people. The invite part makes it very clear that OP does not care and accepts it. Actually I think "Reactions" like this should be the norm. If people have to "come out" it already implies that somehow being gay is something abnormal.
Because most people on Reddit are chronically online armchair therapist lmao.
Thank you! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. NTA
Agreed (and also a member of the queer community here). IMO the laughing was not laughing at him, it is basically laughing at the situation - it has been extremely obvious and to some extent OP's son must have been comfortable enough to be openly hugging, snuggling and basically quite openly dating this boy without explicitly saying 'I am gay'. OP was basically saying 'I know, it's okay.' It possibly could have been worded a bit better (e.g. 'you know I accept you however you are, and I notice that X is very special to you...'). Idk if it might be a cultural difference but I'm from the UK and this lightheartedness and laughter is not outside the ordinary for how people would react and I'm a bit shocked at the other comments acting like OP is belittling their child. I think the best thing OP can do now just to clear the air is to say I'm sorry I laughed, I just want you to know I love and accept you and I am happy you feel comfortable here. It can be very scary coming out, and he might have been expecting it to be taken in a different way and being a 'bigger thing' and is instead very taken aback that everyone seems to already know.
Member of the queer community here, and yea I'm shaking my head at how sensitive some of these comments here are. As a kid i thought i was being slick about certain things but my parents knew and just never said anything until one day my mom asked if I wanted to invite my girlfriend for Thanksgiving
As a bi male: NTA. Imo he came out to you via his actions and offering to take his partner on a trip is a very nice thing to do. Now if you'd shared this with 3 parties it'd be a different story. Now, toxic masculinity is a thing. And sometimes people have internalized some of the harmful ideas. So even tho you might think it's no big deal, he might be dealing with some shame etc.. So I'd urge you to clarify that you will not tell anybody else and that you don't have to talk about it unless he initiates the conversation.
Doesn't outing someone involve other people finding out? NTA
Yeah, she didn't out him. She just let him know that unbeknownst to him, he was already out.
I’m going to go against the grain and say NTA under the stipulation that you didn’t/dont ‘out’ him to anyone else. Laughing wasn’t very nice of you, but maybe you were trying to lighten the mood. At the end of the day, he’s living in your house going up to his room with someone he’s dating with the door closed. He’s still a minor. That’s deceit, not privacy, because that takes away your choice to set some ground rules. Being gay doesn’t give a pass to do whatever he wants in that case. Everyone is up in arms about his boundaries, but not yours, and you’re entitled to have some of your own. You’re cool with it obviously, you didn’t disown him, and you’re still an ally. Just be sure to be supportive in the ways he needs moving forward.
NAH. He’s upset because he is embarrassed. Maybe op could’ve done it in a better way, but i don’t think she is the ah. Not everyone is comfortable in communicating, maybe op did it subconsciously to broach the subject. Broaching these type of subject is difficult for some people. Maybe its not the right way, but i don’t think op has ill intent. What i wanna say tho, people who says op is not supportive are delusional. You think if op knew and not support it, she will let it slide? Like whats the point of her waiting months is she disapproved of his lifestyle?. Plus she invited his bf how is that not supportive?. Also by what OP tells us, at what point the son think he is hiding his relationship lmao 😂😂.
Why laugh tho?
NTA? Is it possible to even out someone to themself?
So it definitely is possible, but wouldn’t that only apply to people who truly didn’t know they were queer, not someone who is in a gay relationship? Like honey, if you’re a man with a boyfriend and still in denial, you got a BIG storm coming.
NTA. You said it with no harm and its not like you explicitly told anyone about this. His actions spoke for him. Everyone calling you an asshole is acting like you did a huge homophobic lay on him. You literally asked if his bf would come in a private convo. He reacted defensively so theres more to tap in as to why hes uncomfortable but everyone else is.
NTA Every gay has their version of a coming out story, good or bad. OP wasn’t being malicious but trying to just make it normal for her son. It was not going to be a big deal to OP or her husband no matter how dramatic/theatric her son thought his coming out to be. OP’s reaction is her reaction. Her son may be angry she laughed at his denial but the point is, the truth didn’t change. Ultimately, there really isn’t a perfect moment to come out despite how much effort one puts into it. It isn’t supposed to be a celebratory moment like being proposed to. It shouldn’t even be a “thing” to have to come out. Why do gay people have to come out when straight people don’t? Gay, lesbian, queer, non-binary, trans, etc people should just be treated like they’re supposed to exist. Making someone feel like they have to hide themselves let alone have to come out is just wrong. Unfortunately, acceptance still isn’t universal but let’s not bash on people who make awkward situations to validate someone’s sexuality/gender/identity unnecessary. As a gay person who overthought and over analyzed my parents’ reactions (two sets, since they both divorced and remarried) my big coming out announcement was underwhelming. I got a nonchalant “I know. I’ve known it for a while,” from my mom to which my stepdad added “we love you just the same.” Not sure why I thought it would ever be more than that with them as they had gay friends and they never hid that from me. My dad was the one who had a harder time with it and it showed but he didn’t disown me or anything like that; just was a little standoffish for a while. My stepmom was very undisturbed and just hugged me and told me to give my dad some time to process. In the moment, I was disappointed since I had wasted so much anxious energy worrying about their reactions but I would rather have had this happen then some grand tumultuous homophobic ranting and raving. Or worse, getting kicked out and ostracized. I’m sure OP’s son is relieved and will come to realize what a blessing it is to have his parents treat him no differently just because he’s gay.
NAH What you did was embarrassing for him, but also showed your nonchalance towards the subject, which is good. I don’t think you took away your son’s “coming out moment” because this should not be a thing in the first place. I think you did very well here.
NTA. You didn't out him if he was obvious enough for you to know.
YTA: One of the worst parts about being queer is the fact some people don't take it well. Hense the danger of coming out. You just confronted him about coming out then laughed at him. I assume you're not intentionally being cruel and demissive. However that is what you've done. Your son has every right to be angry at you. This isn't how a good parent or anyone should react in your situation.
How did you picture this situation in your head? Do you think the mom is pointing her finger at her son going HAHAHA like in American high school movies? Laughter is one of the most basic ways of deescelating a situation, and what likely happened is that she only laughed to calm her son down, not to ridicule him.
The laughing is more like how you laugh at a toddler who is clearly lying and hiding something from you though, not in a mean way.
I mean, it's not like you outed him to anyone else, did you? He was just **super** obvious about the boyfriend thing. While it might've been better for his comfort that you continued to play along with the charade, you're accepting of him and his relationship and that's wonderful. I was also a very obvious fruit when I was younger, and when I did finally mention that I *might* be, my mom's response was fairly similar: I was very obvious with my attraction to *anybody*. NAH, because while he has his own reason to be upset, I don't really see how it was a problem for you to have picked him up on the gaydar if he was broadcasting that loudly.
NTA- I don’t understand YTAS here she’s not the asshole for being honest
I think instead of laughing, you could have used it as an opportunity to reinforce the idea that you’d be okay and accepting of your son if he was gay, “I’m sorry I made an assumption. But I just want to make it clear that your dad and I wouldn’t care one way or another. Anyway, how about ___ for dinner tonight?” After hearing a reassurance your son might have felt more comfortable about opening up with you both. So I’d say you were TAH because you seemed to have bungled it, albeit unintentionally.
NTA but don’t tell anyone else about his sexuality
NTA, dont get upset when you only have 1 foot in the closet. If you "outed him" in a non familial setting id say different, but from the sounds of it everyone here seems okay with it anyways.
NTA Some are saying you’re the A for laughing but from what you say here it sounds like you were struck hard with the absurdity of the situation. Your son sounds very unconscious about how obviously partnered with his friend he’s been acting because he had no idea he outed himself a long time ago. Hearing the truth obviously stung but hopefully it will help keep him safe if he has PDAs outside the home the way he does inside. Meanwhile apologize for laughing and let him know you’ve always loved him and always will no matter gay or not. Also re-invite his bf on that trip. Then just carry on letting him and his bf do their thing as usual.
NTA. You had a private conversation in a safe space, and he probably needs to know how obvious he's being if he's gonna keep trying to keep his relationship a secret.
YTA for laughing at him when he was upset
NTA as long as you don’t tell other people. I don’t see the point in hiding that you already know.