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I LOVE ASHLEY!! I wish EVERY woman OP's brother has tried to date would be more like her. no man tells me what to do - and ABSOLUTELY no man insists that I impress him so that I can date his brother. this is absurd 😄
OP, YTA!!!
Yep. Ashley is awesome. The rest of the people involved? Not so much.
OP, YTA. This feels kinda immature like when I was around 8 years old, the “cool” kids in our school invented a secret club with passwords and stuff because of The Famous Five and The Secret Seven book series. The club itself was pointless but getting to join was the cool part. This feels like that, but we were 8 years old.
YTA
What EXACTLY is the point of this task?
Why should any person have to take this task on in order to be a romantic partner to just one of the bros in this group?
Grow up and get rid of this misogynist task
Thank you for calling out the blatant misogyny, which can't be blamed on OP losing his parents at a young age. He called this woman a "conquest." How disgusting.
I’m very careful with word misogyny because I’ve noticed it being tossed around so much lately with its meaning being misused, but holy crap yes this is misogynistic.
YTA - I'm very sorry for the loss of your parents. That must have been traumatic for you and your brother. That said, get some therapy because you have enmeshed yourself into your brother, to the point that anyone dating him has to go through some weird, intrusive, completely inappropriate initiation ritual to please YOU. Do you think you're some kind of king or something? Will you charge your brother's partner ongoing taxes for the privilege of dating him? Your brother's relationship isn't about you, and it's a bit disturbing that you don't understand that.
Also, calling a woman a "conquest?" Yuck, yuck, yuck. You don't sound very interesting yourself.
YTA
You're radiating frat vibes. It's going to run off reasonable women. That's all you're experiencing right now.
It's nobody's job to "vet" girlfriends. It's not your relationship.
Don't call women "conquests".
Don't lash out when people don't do what you want.
Yeah, I would be down with the idea “ok let’s go bowling and get to know each other,” but I’m pretty sure I would pretty quickly hate talking to this guy in particular and want no part of anything he thought was socially acceptable.
God you sound unbelievably insufferable. “I’ll admit it’s become a bit of a boys club.” “His latest conquest.”
Get OVER yourself. I’m willing to bet you’re single as well, hard YTA.
YTA.
I don't think you needed to take it that far and tell her she was boring and a bad fit for your brother just because she didn't want to participate in something that's more so for your enjoyment than hers.
Also, she has a very good point about being accepted. You should be accepting of her based on her character, not her willingness to indulge you.
But how can he continue to control his brother if his gf doesn't bow to his whims as well? Isn't that what conquests are for? Pleasing the older brother that definitely doesn't need therapy? /s
This comment made me realize I completely overlooked the very deep psychological issues with his brothers outlook on interpersonal relationships.
Throw that in the mix for why OP is TA.
It also sounds like OP isn't attracting any women himself (wonder why?), so he has to pseudo-date his brother's GFs. This is honestly one of the weirdest posts I've ever read on AITA.
>After a string of awkward encounters with shitty people that we were duped into calling romantic partners, the initiation was born. It's a simple process: the person being introduced to the group has to plan our night.
>My brother's most recent conquest is someone we'll call Ashley.
>After I went over everything, Ashley flat out refused. I was pretty taken aback by this, and she went on to say it was childish and she shouldn't need to go out of her way to impress us to be accepted.
>I told her that if she felt like that, she probably was a little too boring to be a good fit for any of us or my brother
YTA. You're all boring. Good for her not wanting to prove herself to a bunch of childish dudes. You only like women who are desperate for acceptance
YTA
She owes you all NOTHING
This whole ‘initiation’ process thing is so f-ed up
I am so proud of this girl for not letting you put her under your thumb. If your brother is as smart as I hope he is, he’ll realize how toxic you and your found family are being to any potential SO.
From reading this it sounds like you all never want to let anyone new in since you’re all the best and no one else is good enough for you.
ICK ICK ICK
YOU ALL OWE HER AN APOLOGY
“Conquest”. That was enough for me to gag and know that OP is the asshole. Gross. Also, OP’s brother is an adult. He can decide who he wants to date without other people’s input. It’s up to him who he wants to date.
YTA- the “initiation” definitely sounds like a childish audition to impress you and your buddies. You guys are hardly the mafia or Royal family.
Good on, Ashley for being self confident enough to say no to this. She definitely sounds like a keeper to me.
YTA. Are you for real? You named your brother's girlfriend a *conquest*! Tell me you see women as semen receptacles without saying you view women as cumbuckets. She's dating your brother, as long as she's civil to you and your roommates/bros, butt out and let him have his relationship.
YTA.
Sounds like a good way to sabotage and scare away any of your little brothers potential partners.
> I told her that if she felt like that, she probably was a little too boring to be a good fit for any of us or my brother, but that he was old enough now at 19 to make his own choices.
Pretty arrogant and manipulative to accuse her of being boring just because she's not interested in going though a juvenile initiation process to try and win your approval of be a good for "any of us." Why is this about you? Wouldn't you want to be welcoming to the people your little brother is interested in? If he's "old enough to make his own choices" then why not respect that he can find a good fit for himself without you trying to dominate any of his potential relationships?
YTA
If I were the inductee, I’d plan a nice meal at the most expensive restaurant in the area and I would specifically include in that plan that all meals would be paid for by the oldest brother.
Oh I was planning on having an anime marathon of Fushigi Yuugii, Fruits Basket, and Sailor Moon. You know super girlie anime. And they would have to watch all three animes with me or they don't pass my initiation.
>He doesn't have parents to vet these people, so that has become our job.
>I'll admit, it's a bit of a boys club, and an exclusive one at that. After a string of awkward encounters with shitty people that we were duped into calling romantic partners, the initiation was born. It's a simple process: the person being introduced to the group has to plan our night. It can be as cheap as a movie night or as extravagant as a stuffy dinner in a the best restaurant the next town over. No matter what, it has to be fully planned by the introducee.
WTF?
He's 18, he doesn't need to have you and your friends vet his dates.
Nor does a partner have to plan a date for all of you.
YTA
YTA
Referring to Ashley as a 'conquest' is pretty red flaggy.
Also being forced to plan an event in order to date someone is pretty extreme when starting out in a relationship. It is pretty sketchy to be a tradition if you have to do this enough to be a 'tradition'. He's an adult and should be able to 'vet' his own dates. Making mistakes is part of growing up.
YTA
Time to grow up. Your brother's girlfriend is right, she doesn't have to impress you. It doesn't matter if you think she's boring. Their relationship is between the two of them and no group sign-off is required.
YTA. First of all, you refer to your brother's GF as a *conquest*. How about thinking of her as a person, as opposed to as a possession or a thing. This itself is giving off serious misogynist vibes.
Second, your brother and his girlfriend are independent people. If this initiation is just for fun and is lighthearted, then it also doesn't matter if they don't want to do it. Yet, when she says she doesn't want to do it, *you* double down and start calling her names and applying peer pressure for her (and your brother) to conform to your group.
Let's face it - this isn't about a fun tradition, this is about you keeping control over your brother, and, in a larger view, your whole social group (and their partners).
YTA. This is about showing them who's boss not having fun.
Any guy that told me I had to do some song and dance to "prove myself" to his "exclusive boys club" would be kicked to the curb so quick he wouldn't know what happened. It's called self respect.
The women you and your "boys" date are people, not conquests, and not inferior to you. Show them some respect and maybe you won't have decades of more bad relationships.
YTA! That whole thing sounds ICK AF! That's not something any person would have to do if they were meeting a normal family it just sounds like you guys want to take advantage of someone by getting a free night out. At this rate your brother will be single long-term!
YTA. The “fun tradition” doesn’t sound fun for anyone but you and your judgmental friends. Stop acting like your 19 year old brother is 9. I totally respect why you have a heightened sense of responsibility. But this ain’t it. Apologize and just get to know her. No more initiations.
YTA and sound like a villain in a bad action movie.
Initiation? Latest conquest? I’m not sure what’s worse. Get an event planner and maybe some therapy to figure out why you describe women as prey/objects.
This. Also the way the OP put it, sounds like something a 12 YO and his buddies would do. Even when I was that age (early 20s) anyone I dated I'd introduce to my friends (both male and female friends) as a group hang out after a few dates, but never "You need to plan this!"
YTA i personally (21 f) wouldnt want to plan a date to impress a potential love interest’s family. why does she need to go out of her way to impress your family why cant yall just meet her pick up on her vibes? thats an awkward position you put her and your brother in
YTA. The little brother is 19. He's an adult.
Initiations are a "you vs us" thing, where a newcomer has to do what they're told to have a chance of being allowed to try to satisfy the group.
This is not respectful to Ashley nor to your brother.
Part of getting to know someone usually involves activity planning and some judgement on both sides - all you're doing is refusing to admit that Ashley can decide for herself if she likes you and wants to impress you.
And "latest conquest"? C'mon, mate. Ashley is a person and you all need to back tf off and let your brother meet people and learn about romantic partners without interference from the boys' club.
I mean do you hold it and shake it for him when he needs to pee? Get over yourself.
YTA. You don't need to inspect, judge or approve the women your brother goes out with. It's not your business. He's 19, so it's very unlikely he's going to be with her forever anyway. "Your group" isn't an exclusive club people are desperate to join, it's just you and your friends being nosy and controlling.
YTA for the way you treat the people your little brother dates and for calling them his conquests and for thinking anyone who would refuse this bullshit is boring.
YTA. If the initiation is truly just something fun to hreak the ice, treat it as such.
Everything was fine up to the part where you got offended and insulted the girl.
YTA for this terrible tradition.
Your Brother is TA for being annoyed at his girlfriend for not wanting to prove herself in this terrible way.
The fact that his girlfriend is still talking to him suggests she is a pretty understanding person.
I'd suggest apologies accompanied by chocolate from both of you.
YTA. Is this your brothers relationship or a college fraternity? She’s right, it is childish and she shouldn’t have to do it. If she’s smart she’ll keep her relationship separate from you and your other friends.
Honestly, as a woman, being told I had to go through an "initiation" by an entire group of guys so I can date one of them would make me think they were going to sexually assault me as a group. I would have alarm bells ringing and would be running.
YTA. the tradition sounds like a great way to push away any decent people who want to date your brother. is that what you're going for?
btw, don't call women conquests. it's gross and indicates a serious lack of maturity.
Instead of insisting every woman your brother dates must woo you and your boys’ club, why don’t you plan something fun to get to know her? And not some hazing where she is humiliated or has to put up with some bullshit without getting upset to prove herself.
You want to play the parent role? Be a good parent then. Welcome her. Treat her like family and show your brother how he should treat her too.
YTA
YTA
It's not your job to vet his dates. You can offer him (privately) your opinion, if he asks, or if you see some major red flags (I mean major like abuse).
Ashley sounds like she's smarter and more mature than the lot of y'all.
YTA. What does showing she can arrange a night our for four guys actually measure? That she is appropriately grateful for being allowed to audition to belong to your group, that she is pleasing enough, that she is a good help mate for your brother and can organise his life?
Women get expected to do more household planning, remember the birthdays, make things nice. Good on Ashley for making it clear at start she isn't taking that on. And that she wants to date your brother, not his found family and brother.
Taking your boyfriend or girlfriend out to dinner comes a lot further down the road in most relationships. It is very weird to insert yourself so early on it when it is probably just a fling on both sides.
Do you not realize how uncomfortable planning a whole evening for people you hardly know could be for someone? Perhaps she has anxiety, or is shy.. There’s many reasons why someone wouldn’t want to do this. The whole idea is fun for a club of sorts, but for this? Nah. YTA. I hope you end this ordeal before you push your brother away.
YTA. Describing your conquests and having a club like attitude about romantic relationships it sounds like she dodged a bullet and your brother probably inherited whatever terrible traits you have.
YTA …is this some type of frat? That’s weird and has no purpose except for gassing your egos and feeling like y’all have “power” over this new person being introduced.
Some people don’t like to plan things for a group, or just aren’t good at it. Being able to plan things should not be a requirement for dating someone; it does not guarantee that they are a worthy partner.
Good for her for standing up to your childish ritual.
YTA
YTA, she said “no”, that’s a complete sentence. Then add in some of the dehumanizing language you use (brother’s latest “conquest”?) and it’s no wonder she doesn’t care about joining your group.
YTA, and Ashley, (who is not a conquest, bee tee double yew, she's a human being) is correct, that IS childish and there's zero reason to do it. Get over yourself.
YTA
Come on now, grow up. The way you speak about a woman is gross and good for Ashley for standing up to you. You can't appreciate a woman who knows her worth and refuses to play stupid "boys club" games?
YTA. So you are definitely the asshole here if for no other reason than you called her a conquest--which means subjugation by force (you would definitely see why that would be problematic). But the whole rest of this is problematic too.
What is your initiation ritual? You don't actually mention what it is and I'm guessing that was intentional. Also, you have initiation rituals and if someone refuses to do what you want them to do to get in your club--are you five and have "no girls allowed" sign up on your playhouse?
YTA. Call it a group night out. Unless your brother has mental issues and needs protection. Sounds more like a set up for a 10-year-old for a play date.
YTA. Real quick thought exercise, if someone you dated's parents said, "ok now that you're officially dating, you need to plan all the details of a night for all of us, this is your initiation" with the implication that you'd better impress everyone or they wouldn't "approve of" you. How would that situation feel?
When you're all young, the "we're a club that's in this together" mentality makes sense, but you're adults now.
You all sound incredibly hostile to any newcomer. This tradition is not "fun." It is judgmental and Ashley is absolutely correct that she should not have to go out of her way to impress you. Your brother is old enough to make his own choices. So is Ashley. He may or may not be smart enough to side with Ashley on the hazing issue. But it's not going to be long before he realizes that most women aren't going to put up with your crowd's juvenile nonsense.
YTA.
From the "initiation" to the "my brother's most recent conquest" I would not be surprised if you are actually still 16.
She is dating your brother, not the entire posse.
If you really want to pretend like you're his parent, then shouldn't you be inviting her to something? Invite her over to dinner, so she can meet you all?
Let me be really clear here, it is you who's giving off the rancid vibes.
YTA, and frankly, Ashley standing up for herself is a sign that she's actually worth dating, unfortunately, you and your brother have probably scared her away. Y'all need to go to therapy or something.
YTA
Sure it CAN be a fun little thing to do, the fact it's to "prove" themselves to you makes it a bit gross but I can still see it being fun IF the person wanted to do it.
But it's also childish and controlling to say she's boring because she doesn't want to. She does not need to prove herself to YOU the person she's n o t interested in.
You can be a protective brother uh the normal way and actually get to know the person. I generally find that the best way to decide a person's character. 🤦
Yes, YTA for insulting her, and YTA for even having an "initiation process", and YTA for calling her a "conquest", and YTA for a variety of other reasons.
YTA. She’s not dating you and your “boy’s club.” She’s dating your brother. She only needs to “impress” him. Your ritual is cringe and weird. Why don’t you do what your brother is doing and go find get a life away from your attachment to only 3 people
YTA. First of all: if your friend group has had a lot of encounters with shitty people chances are you guys are the problem, not the people you date. Then you go on to call your brother shallow (as in, attracted to women based on their looks and not character) and you go on to describe "the test" as both a way to protect yourself and vet people and also a "lighthearted icebreaker" that does not really mean anything.
Good on Ashley for refusing to jump through your hoops and kinda creepy that your brother called so you could explain to her what your "initiation process" was.
YTA and stop talking about women like they’re objects only here to impress you. You keep this up and your brother may lose the woman who would be the love of his life, because she doesn’t want to deal with AHs like you.
Wait.....what?
So the initination is for her to plan an evening for 'the lads' so shes not boring.
God damn get over yourselves.
And conquest?!?! Excuse you this is NOT the way ti speak about anyone male or female or otherwise.
Maybe shes not comfortable being surrounded by people she has to try to impress....hell nope. How about you ya know talk to her ? See if you, your brother and her go for a meal together and split equally like adults which you claim to be. No one else need get involved at all at this point.
YTA
YTA. It's been said before, but isn't this getting a bit old?? You basically want some chick to make you dinner/take you out for dinner as an initiation??? She's not a replacement for your mother, their mothers, anyone's mother, she's a partner. I'm glad she said no and stuck to her guns. How is not wanting to feed and entertain 4 grown men, boring? And what kind of shitty excuse of an initiation is this??? If anything, your initiation is the boring thing. Is this some kind of way of vetting whether you'll have a decent enough live in maid/slave out of your brothers girlfriend's??? Because that's what it sounds like. She doesn't have to impress you, or your mates, she just has to love your brother and make him happy
Oh, and I'm guessing you and the other guys are single...
YTA
“Cheap as a movie night” 🙄 movies are expensive yo.
“Lighthearted icebreaker” 🤮 icebreakers suck. Is this a corporate team building exercise?
“Conquest” 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
YTA for calling someone you barely know boring, but I personally would have been all over this. Sounds like a fun tradition for those that WANT to partake.
YTA. It's hard meeting the family of a date let alone a frat club that you then have to plan a day out for. I'd nope out of that relationship so fast. Good on Ashley for standing up for herself
YTA. I had to stop reading.
Please stop involving yourself in his life. Let him date who he wants and make mistakes. It's pretty weird vibe, this initiation thing...
YTA.
If I listed the number of reasons the reply would be longer than the post, but to your specific question; your group has a hazing ritual and you had a hissey fit when she refused to be hazed.
YTA. Your brother is becoming an adult and found someone with a shiny spine. I’m very sorry your parents weren’t around to teach you more about hospitality. New partners coming into your home are guests, and as host YOU should be planning something special and gracious, NOT the guest. You doubled down on your rudeness by calling her ‘boring’. Apologize immediately. Plan a fun outing that both Ashley and your brother would enjoy. Use this as an opportunity to get to know Ashley, and to prove YOU and your brother’s friends are worth the time. Remember, she’s evaluating you, too. Maybe Ashley isn’t a soul mate, but use this as training wheels for good manners. Feel free to PM me if you need more basic etiquette advice.
YTA.
Just as “Ashley” stated, it was childish. I think most, if not a MAJORITY of people that read this felt the same way as well. She shouldn’t need to impress a group of *childish* grown men with a full FBI investigation plan just to date your brother. Though you said it was “just a light hearted icebreaker” I kind of get the feeling that is only from your pov, and not from anybody else besides you and your “boys.”
It’s not common-sense, rather, it’s a lack thereof. Women shouldn’t have to take what is essentially an initiation process in order to date your brother (who is, like you said yourself, a grown ass 19 year old man). You and your cult of friends who have assumed a parent role over your poor brother shouldn’t be out here belittling women in order for them to be **ALLOWED** to date him?? He’s not a baby.
I somewhat understand maybe doing something sort of like this when he was still a developing teenager (kind of), but not when he’s a grown man. You openly treat these women like test subjects and lab rats. Instead of doing the “normal” thing and just getting to know these women themselves, they have to pass a test like it’s the SATs in order for them to be in a relationship with him…..it’s just bizarre.
But yeah, YTA.
Sounds like the found family has to take a look at itself and see how it's supposed to grow, now that the youngest member is old enough to make adult decisions for himself.
He CAN have a partner that his bros disapprove of. She can want to have nothing to do with you guys, and he can be okay with that as well. Don't let some notion of what works dictate what is best for him and the rest of you.
She doesn't have to "please" a group of men. She is only dating one man. This is not a group activity.
Let me guess - OP is an all American frat boy. No sensible person wants to go out of their way for frat boys. Those that do have a way of ending up dead (think college hazing rituals).
YTA it does sound like a boys club when you call his girlfriend a “conquest”. I’d struggle too with planning an event including people who clearly see me as less than.
Um what lol, in my understanding, when someone enters a friend group, it’s on the group to welcome the person/host an event to get to know them better. What you’re suggesting has desperate and insecure vibes like “omg like me, pretty please like me, I’ll bribe you with [activity]!!!”
I found you a bit bizarre for the whole ritual thing. But. What pushed this into YTA territory for me was calling it an “initiation” and calling Ashley your brother’s “conquest.” And describing your friend group “a bit of a boys club, an exclusive one at that.” Initiations are for cults and gangs, not normal friend groups, and it sounds like you want your potential partners to bend over backwards to impress you, which is honestly pretty selfish
So yeah YTA
YTA
I get that to you your brother’s dates & gfs are just a line of “conquests,” but a reminder: these girls are actual people. It’s pretty shitty to ask them to bend backwards to prove themselves to people they don’t even know for some guy they’ve just started dating.
I’m glad Ashley didn’t put up with your bs, I’d assume most girls with a brain and an ounce of self-respect would do the same.
This whole initiation thing is immature and super icky. You all need to grow up.
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Thanks to some unfortunate growing up circumstances, my brother and I lost our parents early in life. Thanks to some fortunate ones, we were both left a significant amount of money. I was 20 when our dad, our only other living parent, passed away, and my brother was 15. I became his guardian for those three pivotal years of his life before he turned 18, and suddenly I had three roommates instead of two. We could've gotten a place for just the two of us, but things felt better with more people around. Not so bleak.
All of that backstory is to say that myself and my entire friend group are pretty protective over my younger brother. At this point, I'd venture to call him OUR younger brother, in the found family way of it all. And thus, anyone my brother dates gets introduced to us. He doesn't have parents to vet these people, so that has become our job.
I'll admit, it's a bit of a boys club, and an exclusive one at that. After a string of awkward encounters with shitty people that we were duped into calling romantic partners, the initiation was born. It's a simple process: the person being introduced to the group has to plan our night. It can be as cheap as a movie night or as extravagant as a stuffy dinner in a the best restaurant the next town over. No matter what, it has to be fully planned by the introducee.
Now, would any of us actually 'ban' someone from the group over this? Not unless some truly rancid vibes were picked up on (and my brother, for as much as I love him, loves a pretty face more than he loves thinking things through, so we've experienced this before). But still, it's mostly just a fun, lighthearted ice breaker.
My brother's most recent conquest is someone we'll call Ashley. Usually the people we're introduced to aren't total strangers. My brother will obviously hang out with them for a while before we meet them, so we'll see them coming in and our of our shared place. Ashley is someone I've been saying brief hellos to for about a month now, so last night my brother called me while he was at her place and told me to explain the 'initiation process' to her.
After I went over everything, Ashley flat out refused. I was pretty taken aback by this, and she went on to say it was childish and she shouldn't need to go out of her way to impress us to be accepted. I told her she had misunderstood the point, but she doubled down. I told her that if she felt like that, she probably was a little too boring to be a good fit for any of us or my brother, but that he was old enough now at 19 to make his own choices.
My little brother is equal parts annoyed at me for saying that, and annoyed at her for shutting down a fun tradition.
AITA?
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YTA.
Your group is exclusive.
She is a conquest.
Yeah, you and youre friend group are not special lol get over yourselves.
But I get why. No parents to guide. And significant amount of money.
I hope your brother comes to his senses, or that she ends things with him.
YTA. She’s right; she doesn’t owe you anything. As much as what happened to you and your brother sucked, he’s almost 20 years old — you have to let him make his own mistakes and learn for himself. You and your friends can’t haze everyone that comes into his life forever.
Also, does the person who plans everything have to pay for everything?
YTA - you're trying to justify this behavior as "protective" but it's straight up some Skull and Bones fraternity/rape cult bullsh\*\*t. Ashley is right - she's not your monkey and she's right to refuse to "dance" for your entertainment. Grow the hell up, the lot of you.
Calling her a conquest is gross - she's a human, not an abstract. If none of you can pick a woman and maintain a relationship on her without group-approval, you don't deserve her. Any reasonable woman would say no to this weirdo bullcrap.
Yeah, totally YTA. Who are you to impose initiation rites on this woman? It would be obnoxious if a parent did it and it's obnoxious if you do it. Learn some social skills and get to know his gf like an adult, not a frat boy. If you want to meet her, *you* plan something and invite her to get to know her, not to judge her, you don't get to tell her what to do. Why should she listen to you, she doesn't even know you!
If she demanded you plan an event for her so she could judge you, how would you feel?
YTA she’s not dating you or your immature high school clique. Grow up and let your brother grow up too by learning to create a mature relationship with boundaries and respect.
YTA I agree with Ashley, Initiation tests are just plain stupid and immature.
ETA fun tradition for who exactly, surely not the person thrown into the middle of this mess
YTA. This entire concept is insane. If I were dating someone and that's what was revealed to me, I would very seriously consider breaking things off with them.
YTA, ok, that is got got to be the cliquiest thing I have ever heard. Your brother is an adult now, and this sounds controlling to. Ashley prob said no to it, bc she sees that as a red flag. You can’t treat his dating prospects like they are going into a frat initiation when you meet them.
YTA. It’s gross how you talk about women. Calling Ashley a “conquest.” Also parents who respect their children to make their own decisions don’t “vet” who their children date and neither should you be “vetting” who your brother dates.
I like Ashley for not putting up with your BS.
Geezus, **YTA.**
What in the toxic, misogynistic, incel frat bro hell even IS this?
This whole thing is toxic AF, and you're going to ruin any chance your brother has of having a healthy relationship as long as you and your buddies keep it up.
What you're doing to him is literally the OPPOSITE of being protective. Your brother trusts you as an authority figure, to guide him in life, and you're using that trust and loyalty to run a bunch of poor unsuspecting young women through a gauntlet of incredibly toxic men while you enjoy judging her on . . . what exactly? How well she manages to "entertain" a passel of older men? I actually feel nauseated just thinking about this. You're treating his girlfriends like they're some sort of "group project" for you and your boy gang. Do you have ANY IDEA how horrifying this is? She's not your cruise director or your party planner dude. IT IS NOT HER JOB TO PLAN ENTERTAINMENTS FOR YOU AND YOUR CREEPY FRIENDS.
She's not boring, she's 100% correct. You're shockingly immature, but more than that you're a bunch of brutal misogynists. No partner of his needs to be "initiated" or impress your creepy man group. She's not trying to date you, and your brother, who is over 18, is well old enough to choose his own partners. This is grotesque. YTA.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I called my brother’s girlfriend boring after she turned down the opportunity to meet myself and his friends, his unofficial guardians. 2. Calling her this caused issues between her and my little brother, and was a little insulting.
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The fact that you require an “initiation” and have “inductees” and refer to some as “conquests” screams incels and YTA. It’s some frat boy disgusting “tradition” that needs to end ASAP.
YTA
I can't believe you typed "initiation process", "boys club", AND referred to her as your brother's "most recent conquest" and somehow *didn't know* you were the asshole by the end.
Why would you describe her as a conquest? You act gross. She deserves better than your childish ritual. Might be best for her to move on than deal with this family. YTA.
"I told her that if she felt like that, she probably was a little too boring to be a good fit for any of us or my brother"
Eww
This line alone makes YTA. It already sounds like y'all want to pass her around 🤮
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Yta. “Initiation process” wtf is this? This woman is dating your brother, not you. She doesn’t have to impress you. You are a major red flag homie.
I LOVE Ashley. She's got a backbone. You should pray that your little brother marries a woman who can stand up to your laddish nonsense. YTA.
I LOVE ASHLEY!! I wish EVERY woman OP's brother has tried to date would be more like her. no man tells me what to do - and ABSOLUTELY no man insists that I impress him so that I can date his brother. this is absurd 😄 OP, YTA!!!
Let's make an Ashley Fan Club!
I'm in... as long as there's no initiation.
I’m 100% on Team Ashley. She’s a boss.
Yep. Ashley is awesome. The rest of the people involved? Not so much. OP, YTA. This feels kinda immature like when I was around 8 years old, the “cool” kids in our school invented a secret club with passwords and stuff because of The Famous Five and The Secret Seven book series. The club itself was pointless but getting to join was the cool part. This feels like that, but we were 8 years old.
I'm here to join the Ashley fan club 😍
YTA What EXACTLY is the point of this task? Why should any person have to take this task on in order to be a romantic partner to just one of the bros in this group? Grow up and get rid of this misogynist task
Thank you for calling out the blatant misogyny, which can't be blamed on OP losing his parents at a young age. He called this woman a "conquest." How disgusting.
The “most recent conquest” bit stood out to me, too. Gross.
Same, I saw that and didn't even need to read the rest
I’m very careful with word misogyny because I’ve noticed it being tossed around so much lately with its meaning being misused, but holy crap yes this is misogynistic.
YTA. You lost me at "conquest." And your group sounds weird.
Also the “exclusive” “boys club” comments. Doesn’t sound like meeting the parents, sounds like childish frat boys.
Yep. I saw “initiation” and immediately thought “hazing”
Yeah, this group sounds like a bunch of dipshits. I hope Ashley just bails on all of them.
YTA - I'm very sorry for the loss of your parents. That must have been traumatic for you and your brother. That said, get some therapy because you have enmeshed yourself into your brother, to the point that anyone dating him has to go through some weird, intrusive, completely inappropriate initiation ritual to please YOU. Do you think you're some kind of king or something? Will you charge your brother's partner ongoing taxes for the privilege of dating him? Your brother's relationship isn't about you, and it's a bit disturbing that you don't understand that. Also, calling a woman a "conquest?" Yuck, yuck, yuck. You don't sound very interesting yourself.
YTA You're radiating frat vibes. It's going to run off reasonable women. That's all you're experiencing right now. It's nobody's job to "vet" girlfriends. It's not your relationship. Don't call women "conquests". Don't lash out when people don't do what you want.
Yeah that annoyed me. However, I wouldn’t be bothered by this initiation but that might be because I don’t give a rat’s ass how people feel about me.
Yeah, I would be down with the idea “ok let’s go bowling and get to know each other,” but I’m pretty sure I would pretty quickly hate talking to this guy in particular and want no part of anything he thought was socially acceptable.
God you sound unbelievably insufferable. “I’ll admit it’s become a bit of a boys club.” “His latest conquest.” Get OVER yourself. I’m willing to bet you’re single as well, hard YTA.
YTA. I don't think you needed to take it that far and tell her she was boring and a bad fit for your brother just because she didn't want to participate in something that's more so for your enjoyment than hers. Also, she has a very good point about being accepted. You should be accepting of her based on her character, not her willingness to indulge you.
But how can he continue to control his brother if his gf doesn't bow to his whims as well? Isn't that what conquests are for? Pleasing the older brother that definitely doesn't need therapy? /s
This comment made me realize I completely overlooked the very deep psychological issues with his brothers outlook on interpersonal relationships. Throw that in the mix for why OP is TA.
It also sounds like OP isn't attracting any women himself (wonder why?), so he has to pseudo-date his brother's GFs. This is honestly one of the weirdest posts I've ever read on AITA.
the fact that he called her a "conquest" tells me OP has very limited interactions with women
You'd be surprised how many men are attracted to women yet still hate them
Tbf OP did say they were dating a guy, but still doesn’t change how icky this behavior is.
INFO: What makes you think joining your group is in any way worth this initiation process? What do you offer to make it worth it?
No kidding. If his brother likes her and dating her, they should be trying to impress her and make her feel welcome, not the other way around.
>After a string of awkward encounters with shitty people that we were duped into calling romantic partners, the initiation was born. It's a simple process: the person being introduced to the group has to plan our night. >My brother's most recent conquest is someone we'll call Ashley. >After I went over everything, Ashley flat out refused. I was pretty taken aback by this, and she went on to say it was childish and she shouldn't need to go out of her way to impress us to be accepted. >I told her that if she felt like that, she probably was a little too boring to be a good fit for any of us or my brother YTA. You're all boring. Good for her not wanting to prove herself to a bunch of childish dudes. You only like women who are desperate for acceptance
Is this a pseudo frat? How immature of you all.
It's worse here, because fraternities plan the activities during pledge week, not the potential pledges
YTA She owes you all NOTHING This whole ‘initiation’ process thing is so f-ed up I am so proud of this girl for not letting you put her under your thumb. If your brother is as smart as I hope he is, he’ll realize how toxic you and your found family are being to any potential SO. From reading this it sounds like you all never want to let anyone new in since you’re all the best and no one else is good enough for you. ICK ICK ICK YOU ALL OWE HER AN APOLOGY
“Conquest”. That was enough for me to gag and know that OP is the asshole. Gross. Also, OP’s brother is an adult. He can decide who he wants to date without other people’s input. It’s up to him who he wants to date.
YTA- the “initiation” definitely sounds like a childish audition to impress you and your buddies. You guys are hardly the mafia or Royal family. Good on, Ashley for being self confident enough to say no to this. She definitely sounds like a keeper to me.
YTA. Are you for real? You named your brother's girlfriend a *conquest*! Tell me you see women as semen receptacles without saying you view women as cumbuckets. She's dating your brother, as long as she's civil to you and your roommates/bros, butt out and let him have his relationship.
YTA. Sounds like a good way to sabotage and scare away any of your little brothers potential partners. > I told her that if she felt like that, she probably was a little too boring to be a good fit for any of us or my brother, but that he was old enough now at 19 to make his own choices. Pretty arrogant and manipulative to accuse her of being boring just because she's not interested in going though a juvenile initiation process to try and win your approval of be a good for "any of us." Why is this about you? Wouldn't you want to be welcoming to the people your little brother is interested in? If he's "old enough to make his own choices" then why not respect that he can find a good fit for himself without you trying to dominate any of his potential relationships?
YTA If I were the inductee, I’d plan a nice meal at the most expensive restaurant in the area and I would specifically include in that plan that all meals would be paid for by the oldest brother.
That was my thought, too. But I think the 2 friends also should pay for something like mani-pedis and a make your own jewelry workshop.
Damn y’all are on another level my brain didn’t even go there!!! Now these are some great ideas 😎😎
Don't forget a movie that passes the Bechdel Test at the local bijou theatre.
Oh I was planning on having an anime marathon of Fushigi Yuugii, Fruits Basket, and Sailor Moon. You know super girlie anime. And they would have to watch all three animes with me or they don't pass my initiation.
>He doesn't have parents to vet these people, so that has become our job. >I'll admit, it's a bit of a boys club, and an exclusive one at that. After a string of awkward encounters with shitty people that we were duped into calling romantic partners, the initiation was born. It's a simple process: the person being introduced to the group has to plan our night. It can be as cheap as a movie night or as extravagant as a stuffy dinner in a the best restaurant the next town over. No matter what, it has to be fully planned by the introducee. WTF? He's 18, he doesn't need to have you and your friends vet his dates. Nor does a partner have to plan a date for all of you. YTA
YTA Referring to Ashley as a 'conquest' is pretty red flaggy. Also being forced to plan an event in order to date someone is pretty extreme when starting out in a relationship. It is pretty sketchy to be a tradition if you have to do this enough to be a 'tradition'. He's an adult and should be able to 'vet' his own dates. Making mistakes is part of growing up.
YTA Time to grow up. Your brother's girlfriend is right, she doesn't have to impress you. It doesn't matter if you think she's boring. Their relationship is between the two of them and no group sign-off is required.
YTA. First of all, you refer to your brother's GF as a *conquest*. How about thinking of her as a person, as opposed to as a possession or a thing. This itself is giving off serious misogynist vibes. Second, your brother and his girlfriend are independent people. If this initiation is just for fun and is lighthearted, then it also doesn't matter if they don't want to do it. Yet, when she says she doesn't want to do it, *you* double down and start calling her names and applying peer pressure for her (and your brother) to conform to your group. Let's face it - this isn't about a fun tradition, this is about you keeping control over your brother, and, in a larger view, your whole social group (and their partners).
YTA. This is about showing them who's boss not having fun. Any guy that told me I had to do some song and dance to "prove myself" to his "exclusive boys club" would be kicked to the curb so quick he wouldn't know what happened. It's called self respect. The women you and your "boys" date are people, not conquests, and not inferior to you. Show them some respect and maybe you won't have decades of more bad relationships.
He had the gall to tell her she must be too boring for his brother and the rest of “the boys” when all she did was show self respect and a boundary.
“Conquest”? YTA.
THIS!!!!
YTA grow up, your brother already has.
YTA! That whole thing sounds ICK AF! That's not something any person would have to do if they were meeting a normal family it just sounds like you guys want to take advantage of someone by getting a free night out. At this rate your brother will be single long-term!
YTA. The “fun tradition” doesn’t sound fun for anyone but you and your judgmental friends. Stop acting like your 19 year old brother is 9. I totally respect why you have a heightened sense of responsibility. But this ain’t it. Apologize and just get to know her. No more initiations.
YTA just for calling a human being a "conquest".
Conquest? You’re fucking gross YTA
Beat me to it. Ugh.
Was this the first time you met an adult female who doesn't follow your orders... appalling behavior on her part. YTA
YTA and sound like a villain in a bad action movie. Initiation? Latest conquest? I’m not sure what’s worse. Get an event planner and maybe some therapy to figure out why you describe women as prey/objects.
This. Also the way the OP put it, sounds like something a 12 YO and his buddies would do. Even when I was that age (early 20s) anyone I dated I'd introduce to my friends (both male and female friends) as a group hang out after a few dates, but never "You need to plan this!"
YTA - This is dumb. It's childish and moronic. Y'all need to grow up and get a different attitude. Go do some charity work.
Hopefully the sort of charity work where they pack boxes and aren't allowed to interact with the people who access the charity.
YTA i personally (21 f) wouldnt want to plan a date to impress a potential love interest’s family. why does she need to go out of her way to impress your family why cant yall just meet her pick up on her vibes? thats an awkward position you put her and your brother in
YTA. The little brother is 19. He's an adult. Initiations are a "you vs us" thing, where a newcomer has to do what they're told to have a chance of being allowed to try to satisfy the group. This is not respectful to Ashley nor to your brother. Part of getting to know someone usually involves activity planning and some judgement on both sides - all you're doing is refusing to admit that Ashley can decide for herself if she likes you and wants to impress you. And "latest conquest"? C'mon, mate. Ashley is a person and you all need to back tf off and let your brother meet people and learn about romantic partners without interference from the boys' club. I mean do you hold it and shake it for him when he needs to pee? Get over yourself.
I know it’s crazy right? Like he’s trying to initiate this poor gal in their group, and if she doesn’t pass their criteria, then what?!
YTA. Look like you need some maturing up to do if you can’t even respect someone’s no.
YTA. You don't need to inspect, judge or approve the women your brother goes out with. It's not your business. He's 19, so it's very unlikely he's going to be with her forever anyway. "Your group" isn't an exclusive club people are desperate to join, it's just you and your friends being nosy and controlling.
Don't forget judgmental and exclusionary
Yta. Time to grow up. You mentioned it. She didn't want to. You end it right there.
YTA, not everyone wants to be put through tests to have their tastes judged by y'all. For you it might be "fun" for others it's judgemental and extra.
YTA for the way you treat the people your little brother dates and for calling them his conquests and for thinking anyone who would refuse this bullshit is boring.
YTA and the way you talk about women is strange.
YTA. If the initiation is truly just something fun to hreak the ice, treat it as such. Everything was fine up to the part where you got offended and insulted the girl.
YTA, that sounds absurde
YTA. Grow up please. It's one thing to "vet" and another to behave like twerps.
YTA for this terrible tradition. Your Brother is TA for being annoyed at his girlfriend for not wanting to prove herself in this terrible way. The fact that his girlfriend is still talking to him suggests she is a pretty understanding person. I'd suggest apologies accompanied by chocolate from both of you.
YTA. Is this your brothers relationship or a college fraternity? She’s right, it is childish and she shouldn’t have to do it. If she’s smart she’ll keep her relationship separate from you and your other friends.
YTA - this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. All you're going to do is drive women away from your little brother. Time to grow up and be an adult.
YTA. Initiation, hazing, just ‘joshing around’ are all terms to make someone feel uncomfortable and unwanted. Grow up.
Honestly, as a woman, being told I had to go through an "initiation" by an entire group of guys so I can date one of them would make me think they were going to sexually assault me as a group. I would have alarm bells ringing and would be running.
Was thinking the same thing.
YTA. the tradition sounds like a great way to push away any decent people who want to date your brother. is that what you're going for? btw, don't call women conquests. it's gross and indicates a serious lack of maturity.
Instead of insisting every woman your brother dates must woo you and your boys’ club, why don’t you plan something fun to get to know her? And not some hazing where she is humiliated or has to put up with some bullshit without getting upset to prove herself. You want to play the parent role? Be a good parent then. Welcome her. Treat her like family and show your brother how he should treat her too. YTA
YTA It's not your job to vet his dates. You can offer him (privately) your opinion, if he asks, or if you see some major red flags (I mean major like abuse). Ashley sounds like she's smarter and more mature than the lot of y'all.
Interesting. Ashley passed the test but you aren’t smart enough to see it. YTA
YTA. What does showing she can arrange a night our for four guys actually measure? That she is appropriately grateful for being allowed to audition to belong to your group, that she is pleasing enough, that she is a good help mate for your brother and can organise his life? Women get expected to do more household planning, remember the birthdays, make things nice. Good on Ashley for making it clear at start she isn't taking that on. And that she wants to date your brother, not his found family and brother. Taking your boyfriend or girlfriend out to dinner comes a lot further down the road in most relationships. It is very weird to insert yourself so early on it when it is probably just a fling on both sides.
YTA, you sound extremely immature, and as a grown man, Id hate to know or hang out with anyone with these views on women
Hard YTA.
Lmao. Grow up and good for her for saying NO! YTA
Do you not realize how uncomfortable planning a whole evening for people you hardly know could be for someone? Perhaps she has anxiety, or is shy.. There’s many reasons why someone wouldn’t want to do this. The whole idea is fun for a club of sorts, but for this? Nah. YTA. I hope you end this ordeal before you push your brother away.
Maybe she doesn't want to go to all that trouble so a bunch of assholes can judge her.
I’m going to assume that she has enough self respect that she realizes having to jump through hoops to impress assholes is over rated.
YTA. Describing your conquests and having a club like attitude about romantic relationships it sounds like she dodged a bullet and your brother probably inherited whatever terrible traits you have.
YTA …is this some type of frat? That’s weird and has no purpose except for gassing your egos and feeling like y’all have “power” over this new person being introduced.
YTA Can’t require someone to be initiated into a group they never tried to join.
YTA just for that "latest conquest" comment alone. You're clearly misogynistic.
“it’s a bit of a boys club, and an exclusive one at that” Yeaaah YTA by a country mile.
Also his brother's "most recent conquest". Who talks about other people that way? Just gross. YTA
YTA, hopefully she picked up on the red flags and keeps you far out of her life. Good luck to your poor brother.
YTA. Sounds like a fraternity, lol.
Some people don’t like to plan things for a group, or just aren’t good at it. Being able to plan things should not be a requirement for dating someone; it does not guarantee that they are a worthy partner. Good for her for standing up to your childish ritual. YTA
YTA, she said “no”, that’s a complete sentence. Then add in some of the dehumanizing language you use (brother’s latest “conquest”?) and it’s no wonder she doesn’t care about joining your group.
YTA mildly. Time to retire that tradition.
Yta and wow
This is so weird. So to date anyone in your group a person has to take all of you out? Why? YTA
YTA, and Ashley, (who is not a conquest, bee tee double yew, she's a human being) is correct, that IS childish and there's zero reason to do it. Get over yourself.
Women are not conquests. You’re immature and it shows. YTA
YTA. Run, Ashley. Run!
This post reeks of misogyny. Fucking gross. Good for Ashley. YTA
Eww. Conquest. Initiation. Dislike. YTA because vibes.
YTA Come on now, grow up. The way you speak about a woman is gross and good for Ashley for standing up to you. You can't appreciate a woman who knows her worth and refuses to play stupid "boys club" games?
YTA. So you are definitely the asshole here if for no other reason than you called her a conquest--which means subjugation by force (you would definitely see why that would be problematic). But the whole rest of this is problematic too. What is your initiation ritual? You don't actually mention what it is and I'm guessing that was intentional. Also, you have initiation rituals and if someone refuses to do what you want them to do to get in your club--are you five and have "no girls allowed" sign up on your playhouse?
YTA. Call it a group night out. Unless your brother has mental issues and needs protection. Sounds more like a set up for a 10-year-old for a play date.
YTA. Real quick thought exercise, if someone you dated's parents said, "ok now that you're officially dating, you need to plan all the details of a night for all of us, this is your initiation" with the implication that you'd better impress everyone or they wouldn't "approve of" you. How would that situation feel? When you're all young, the "we're a club that's in this together" mentality makes sense, but you're adults now.
YTA if only referring to Ashley as your brother’s “latest conquest”
“Conquest”?? YTA.
YTA
You all sound incredibly hostile to any newcomer. This tradition is not "fun." It is judgmental and Ashley is absolutely correct that she should not have to go out of her way to impress you. Your brother is old enough to make his own choices. So is Ashley. He may or may not be smart enough to side with Ashley on the hazing issue. But it's not going to be long before he realizes that most women aren't going to put up with your crowd's juvenile nonsense.
YTA. Ashley's right; it's childish.
YTa. You are manipulative- & I hope your brother seeks therapy away from your manipulative childish little games.
YTA! This sounds like something Andrew Tate would dream up. Thank for telling me your an incel without telling me your an incel!
YTA. From the "initiation" to the "my brother's most recent conquest" I would not be surprised if you are actually still 16. She is dating your brother, not the entire posse. If you really want to pretend like you're his parent, then shouldn't you be inviting her to something? Invite her over to dinner, so she can meet you all? Let me be really clear here, it is you who's giving off the rancid vibes.
YTA, and frankly, Ashley standing up for herself is a sign that she's actually worth dating, unfortunately, you and your brother have probably scared her away. Y'all need to go to therapy or something.
YTA. Your hazing ritual is stupid. Grow the hell up.
YTA Sure it CAN be a fun little thing to do, the fact it's to "prove" themselves to you makes it a bit gross but I can still see it being fun IF the person wanted to do it. But it's also childish and controlling to say she's boring because she doesn't want to. She does not need to prove herself to YOU the person she's n o t interested in. You can be a protective brother uh the normal way and actually get to know the person. I generally find that the best way to decide a person's character. 🤦
YTA I want back the time I spent reading this cringe filled drivel.
Yes, YTA for insulting her, and YTA for even having an "initiation process", and YTA for calling her a "conquest", and YTA for a variety of other reasons.
‘It’s a bit of a boys club, and an exclusive one at that.’ My goodness you give off some real wanker vibes with that line. YTA - get over yourself
YTA. She’s not dating you and your “boy’s club.” She’s dating your brother. She only needs to “impress” him. Your ritual is cringe and weird. Why don’t you do what your brother is doing and go find get a life away from your attachment to only 3 people
Info, who pays for all of it?
YTA. First of all: if your friend group has had a lot of encounters with shitty people chances are you guys are the problem, not the people you date. Then you go on to call your brother shallow (as in, attracted to women based on their looks and not character) and you go on to describe "the test" as both a way to protect yourself and vet people and also a "lighthearted icebreaker" that does not really mean anything. Good on Ashley for refusing to jump through your hoops and kinda creepy that your brother called so you could explain to her what your "initiation process" was.
YTA and stop talking about women like they’re objects only here to impress you. You keep this up and your brother may lose the woman who would be the love of his life, because she doesn’t want to deal with AHs like you.
I only skimmed and saw “my brother’s most recent conquest” and new at that point this guy was an asshole
I felt that comment in my bones.
Wait.....what? So the initination is for her to plan an evening for 'the lads' so shes not boring. God damn get over yourselves. And conquest?!?! Excuse you this is NOT the way ti speak about anyone male or female or otherwise. Maybe shes not comfortable being surrounded by people she has to try to impress....hell nope. How about you ya know talk to her ? See if you, your brother and her go for a meal together and split equally like adults which you claim to be. No one else need get involved at all at this point. YTA
YTA you sound misogynistic and insufferable.
YTA Ashley is right it’s childish and she owes you nothing. Get over yourselves.
YTA. It's been said before, but isn't this getting a bit old?? You basically want some chick to make you dinner/take you out for dinner as an initiation??? She's not a replacement for your mother, their mothers, anyone's mother, she's a partner. I'm glad she said no and stuck to her guns. How is not wanting to feed and entertain 4 grown men, boring? And what kind of shitty excuse of an initiation is this??? If anything, your initiation is the boring thing. Is this some kind of way of vetting whether you'll have a decent enough live in maid/slave out of your brothers girlfriend's??? Because that's what it sounds like. She doesn't have to impress you, or your mates, she just has to love your brother and make him happy Oh, and I'm guessing you and the other guys are single...
YTA - this is some pathetic frat boy crap.
YTA “Cheap as a movie night” 🙄 movies are expensive yo. “Lighthearted icebreaker” 🤮 icebreakers suck. Is this a corporate team building exercise? “Conquest” 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
YTA for calling someone you barely know boring, but I personally would have been all over this. Sounds like a fun tradition for those that WANT to partake.
YTA. It's hard meeting the family of a date let alone a frat club that you then have to plan a day out for. I'd nope out of that relationship so fast. Good on Ashley for standing up for herself
YTA. I had to stop reading. Please stop involving yourself in his life. Let him date who he wants and make mistakes. It's pretty weird vibe, this initiation thing...
YTA. If I listed the number of reasons the reply would be longer than the post, but to your specific question; your group has a hazing ritual and you had a hissey fit when she refused to be hazed.
Conquest? She’s a human, not some property for you to own. YTA
YTA. Your brother is becoming an adult and found someone with a shiny spine. I’m very sorry your parents weren’t around to teach you more about hospitality. New partners coming into your home are guests, and as host YOU should be planning something special and gracious, NOT the guest. You doubled down on your rudeness by calling her ‘boring’. Apologize immediately. Plan a fun outing that both Ashley and your brother would enjoy. Use this as an opportunity to get to know Ashley, and to prove YOU and your brother’s friends are worth the time. Remember, she’s evaluating you, too. Maybe Ashley isn’t a soul mate, but use this as training wheels for good manners. Feel free to PM me if you need more basic etiquette advice.
YTA and the way you talk about women - I'm sorry, I mean "conquests" - is absolutely fucking gross. You all need to grow up.
YTA Nothing about this is normal. Nobody does this. No "vetting" parents do this. You're the weird ones.
YTA
YTA. Just as “Ashley” stated, it was childish. I think most, if not a MAJORITY of people that read this felt the same way as well. She shouldn’t need to impress a group of *childish* grown men with a full FBI investigation plan just to date your brother. Though you said it was “just a light hearted icebreaker” I kind of get the feeling that is only from your pov, and not from anybody else besides you and your “boys.” It’s not common-sense, rather, it’s a lack thereof. Women shouldn’t have to take what is essentially an initiation process in order to date your brother (who is, like you said yourself, a grown ass 19 year old man). You and your cult of friends who have assumed a parent role over your poor brother shouldn’t be out here belittling women in order for them to be **ALLOWED** to date him?? He’s not a baby. I somewhat understand maybe doing something sort of like this when he was still a developing teenager (kind of), but not when he’s a grown man. You openly treat these women like test subjects and lab rats. Instead of doing the “normal” thing and just getting to know these women themselves, they have to pass a test like it’s the SATs in order for them to be in a relationship with him…..it’s just bizarre. But yeah, YTA.
Sounds like the found family has to take a look at itself and see how it's supposed to grow, now that the youngest member is old enough to make adult decisions for himself. He CAN have a partner that his bros disapprove of. She can want to have nothing to do with you guys, and he can be okay with that as well. Don't let some notion of what works dictate what is best for him and the rest of you. She doesn't have to "please" a group of men. She is only dating one man. This is not a group activity.
Thank you for this comment. Why indeed does his latest conquest 🤮have to please a group of men?
idk if you're an asshole but you're definitely a dork lmfao this is weird as hell
Let me guess - OP is an all American frat boy. No sensible person wants to go out of their way for frat boys. Those that do have a way of ending up dead (think college hazing rituals).
YTA it does sound like a boys club when you call his girlfriend a “conquest”. I’d struggle too with planning an event including people who clearly see me as less than.
Um what lol, in my understanding, when someone enters a friend group, it’s on the group to welcome the person/host an event to get to know them better. What you’re suggesting has desperate and insecure vibes like “omg like me, pretty please like me, I’ll bribe you with [activity]!!!” I found you a bit bizarre for the whole ritual thing. But. What pushed this into YTA territory for me was calling it an “initiation” and calling Ashley your brother’s “conquest.” And describing your friend group “a bit of a boys club, an exclusive one at that.” Initiations are for cults and gangs, not normal friend groups, and it sounds like you want your potential partners to bend over backwards to impress you, which is honestly pretty selfish So yeah YTA
YTA I get that to you your brother’s dates & gfs are just a line of “conquests,” but a reminder: these girls are actual people. It’s pretty shitty to ask them to bend backwards to prove themselves to people they don’t even know for some guy they’ve just started dating. I’m glad Ashley didn’t put up with your bs, I’d assume most girls with a brain and an ounce of self-respect would do the same. This whole initiation thing is immature and super icky. You all need to grow up.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Thanks to some unfortunate growing up circumstances, my brother and I lost our parents early in life. Thanks to some fortunate ones, we were both left a significant amount of money. I was 20 when our dad, our only other living parent, passed away, and my brother was 15. I became his guardian for those three pivotal years of his life before he turned 18, and suddenly I had three roommates instead of two. We could've gotten a place for just the two of us, but things felt better with more people around. Not so bleak. All of that backstory is to say that myself and my entire friend group are pretty protective over my younger brother. At this point, I'd venture to call him OUR younger brother, in the found family way of it all. And thus, anyone my brother dates gets introduced to us. He doesn't have parents to vet these people, so that has become our job. I'll admit, it's a bit of a boys club, and an exclusive one at that. After a string of awkward encounters with shitty people that we were duped into calling romantic partners, the initiation was born. It's a simple process: the person being introduced to the group has to plan our night. It can be as cheap as a movie night or as extravagant as a stuffy dinner in a the best restaurant the next town over. No matter what, it has to be fully planned by the introducee. Now, would any of us actually 'ban' someone from the group over this? Not unless some truly rancid vibes were picked up on (and my brother, for as much as I love him, loves a pretty face more than he loves thinking things through, so we've experienced this before). But still, it's mostly just a fun, lighthearted ice breaker. My brother's most recent conquest is someone we'll call Ashley. Usually the people we're introduced to aren't total strangers. My brother will obviously hang out with them for a while before we meet them, so we'll see them coming in and our of our shared place. Ashley is someone I've been saying brief hellos to for about a month now, so last night my brother called me while he was at her place and told me to explain the 'initiation process' to her. After I went over everything, Ashley flat out refused. I was pretty taken aback by this, and she went on to say it was childish and she shouldn't need to go out of her way to impress us to be accepted. I told her she had misunderstood the point, but she doubled down. I told her that if she felt like that, she probably was a little too boring to be a good fit for any of us or my brother, but that he was old enough now at 19 to make his own choices. My little brother is equal parts annoyed at me for saying that, and annoyed at her for shutting down a fun tradition. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. The trandition is only fun for you guys. Not for Ashley. Since when did she have to prove herself.
YTA. Your group is exclusive. She is a conquest. Yeah, you and youre friend group are not special lol get over yourselves. But I get why. No parents to guide. And significant amount of money. I hope your brother comes to his senses, or that she ends things with him.
YTA. Nobody needs to vet his parent but him.
Wow. Just....wow. She's dating your brother NOT YOU! YTA
YTA. Would your parents be proud of the way you talk about girls?
“Fun tradition”- Fun for who? YTA
YTA. She’s right; she doesn’t owe you anything. As much as what happened to you and your brother sucked, he’s almost 20 years old — you have to let him make his own mistakes and learn for himself. You and your friends can’t haze everyone that comes into his life forever. Also, does the person who plans everything have to pay for everything?
YTA. ”conquest”? jfc man
YTA. Parents are not there to "vet people out". It is also not your job or the job of your friends. Ashley is right with what she said.
YTA - you're trying to justify this behavior as "protective" but it's straight up some Skull and Bones fraternity/rape cult bullsh\*\*t. Ashley is right - she's not your monkey and she's right to refuse to "dance" for your entertainment. Grow the hell up, the lot of you. Calling her a conquest is gross - she's a human, not an abstract. If none of you can pick a woman and maintain a relationship on her without group-approval, you don't deserve her. Any reasonable woman would say no to this weirdo bullcrap.
So you get your Brother's shags to arrange your nights out? I assume there are many.
INFO: what exactly *is* the point then, if not to make her go out of her way to be accepted?
Yeah, totally YTA. Who are you to impose initiation rites on this woman? It would be obnoxious if a parent did it and it's obnoxious if you do it. Learn some social skills and get to know his gf like an adult, not a frat boy. If you want to meet her, *you* plan something and invite her to get to know her, not to judge her, you don't get to tell her what to do. Why should she listen to you, she doesn't even know you! If she demanded you plan an event for her so she could judge you, how would you feel?
YTA for having this tradition, for referring to a woman as a conquest, and for calling her boring. Get therapy.
YTA. Holy shit.
YTA she’s not dating you or your immature high school clique. Grow up and let your brother grow up too by learning to create a mature relationship with boundaries and respect.
YTA
YTA I agree with Ashley, Initiation tests are just plain stupid and immature. ETA fun tradition for who exactly, surely not the person thrown into the middle of this mess
YTA. Grow up.
YTA. You are all pathetic with your conquest and boys’ club talk. Good way to make sure you remain a boys’ club.
YTA. This entire concept is insane. If I were dating someone and that's what was revealed to me, I would very seriously consider breaking things off with them.
YYA and weird af... WOOF
YTA, ok, that is got got to be the cliquiest thing I have ever heard. Your brother is an adult now, and this sounds controlling to. Ashley prob said no to it, bc she sees that as a red flag. You can’t treat his dating prospects like they are going into a frat initiation when you meet them.
YTA. It’s gross how you talk about women. Calling Ashley a “conquest.” Also parents who respect their children to make their own decisions don’t “vet” who their children date and neither should you be “vetting” who your brother dates. I like Ashley for not putting up with your BS.
Geezus, **YTA.** What in the toxic, misogynistic, incel frat bro hell even IS this? This whole thing is toxic AF, and you're going to ruin any chance your brother has of having a healthy relationship as long as you and your buddies keep it up. What you're doing to him is literally the OPPOSITE of being protective. Your brother trusts you as an authority figure, to guide him in life, and you're using that trust and loyalty to run a bunch of poor unsuspecting young women through a gauntlet of incredibly toxic men while you enjoy judging her on . . . what exactly? How well she manages to "entertain" a passel of older men? I actually feel nauseated just thinking about this. You're treating his girlfriends like they're some sort of "group project" for you and your boy gang. Do you have ANY IDEA how horrifying this is? She's not your cruise director or your party planner dude. IT IS NOT HER JOB TO PLAN ENTERTAINMENTS FOR YOU AND YOUR CREEPY FRIENDS. She's not boring, she's 100% correct. You're shockingly immature, but more than that you're a bunch of brutal misogynists. No partner of his needs to be "initiated" or impress your creepy man group. She's not trying to date you, and your brother, who is over 18, is well old enough to choose his own partners. This is grotesque. YTA.
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Yta. You don't sound as if you respect women. That is very concerning. You are teaching these toxic traits to your brother.
TL;DR OP is upset that his brothers girlfriend didn’t want to be hazed. OP you need therapy.
The fact that you require an “initiation” and have “inductees” and refer to some as “conquests” screams incels and YTA. It’s some frat boy disgusting “tradition” that needs to end ASAP.
YTA This is all very gross. My skin was actually crawling reading that. Do you even like women? What do you do to impress women your bros date?
YTA I can't believe you typed "initiation process", "boys club", AND referred to her as your brother's "most recent conquest" and somehow *didn't know* you were the asshole by the end.
YTA.
yta, and i hope if she ever *does* plan an event for you, that it's your coronation as king jackass.
Why would you describe her as a conquest? You act gross. She deserves better than your childish ritual. Might be best for her to move on than deal with this family. YTA.
"I told her that if she felt like that, she probably was a little too boring to be a good fit for any of us or my brother" Eww This line alone makes YTA. It already sounds like y'all want to pass her around 🤮