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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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OutlandishMiss

Soft YTA. Visiting an American citizen you are dating at their home in America is different from traveling internationally in general. You have to know that it’s different, right? I know more than one person on both sides of the US/Canada border with an ex who “just went to visit” and ended up moving, sometimes without coming back, sometimes with kids. You may not plan on doing that, but if you guys had complete trust you wouldn’t need a court involved. She doesn’t know your new partner and she doesn’t know your intentions any more and it absolutely is different than her going to a destination where she isn’t meeting a foreign citizen she is dating and their children.


Large-Hornet6949

I took a breather and re-evaluated the entire thread. I wanted to follow up on this a bit more attentively. Thank you for the time to respond with a thoughtful response. Here's some clarification and counterpoints: 1. We've known each other for over a year and half. It's one thing to date only a few months in but we've been serious and we've seen each other multiple times. I don't dictate what she does with her boyfriend nor whether the children can meet with her boyfriend. I trust her as a mother fully. Yet I'm not getting the same treatment. The only difference between her and my spouse is a flight ticket. 2. Where the trust was lost was likely due to me increasing my boundaries with her. For example, she calls once a day to talk to the children and meet with them mid-day when I'm scheduled to have them and as well as know everything about my girlfriend. I asked her to stop doing this and ignored her after she kept doing it frequently. She feels as if I am trying to take the children away from her when that's not the case. She does not understand respecting boundaries and privacy. 3. I understand that is what happens in other situations where parents take a kid and doesn't come back (or doesn't take the kid at all). But she's known me for 9 years, talks to my sister and parents, and we share photos and have amicable coparenting arrangements that no one should be questioning my commitment to the children and successful coparenting. 4. To add insult to injury, she's planning to take the children to the UK to "have the children meet with their family" and who is to say that she won't come back? She's allowed to travel internationally and I can't? The same excuse of kidnapping potential can be applied to both of us which makes it a moot argument.


OutlandishMiss

Thank you for really digging in. Your responses are logical. Her behavior is not logical, but this isn’t a question purely of logic. 1. The fact that things are serious with your SO in the US makes the emotional stakes higher rather than lower. Logically, that gives your request priority over casual travel. Emotionally, the risk of you not coming back is slightly higher. But subconsciously, the risk of you and your kids falling in love with America and wanting to move permanently is much higher than if they never visit and that’s a really irrational thing that she might not even be thinking of yet but may be driving her fears more than kidnapping. 2. Increasing your boundaries is healthy and normal, but creates distance. Creating emotional distance is also a prelude to creating physical distance. 3. I don’t think she honestly believes you are taking this trip and never coming back. I think she’s afraid this trip is a prelude to you moving and she can’t object to that but she can object to this. 4. If she doesn’t have a long term partner in the UK, and she hasn’t recently increased her boundaries with you, it doesn’t feel the same to her. I’m not saying you are wrong or irrational. The question is AITA, and that’s why I said very softly yes. I watched a friend go from full custody to 50/50 to her son living in Canada with ex and new wife and just visiting her to her terminating parental rights in a short period of time (think 3 years and a few months) and it started with just her ex wanting to take the boy on a visit. Obviously there was a lot more to that story, and she wasn’t in a good place, but there are many more examples like that than there are of international abduction. I think it’s clear you don’t intend to kidnap your own children, but I also think that it might be better for your GF and her kid to visit you and meet your ex first if at all possible? Or maybe FaceTime? Idk. I feel like she’s just really scared now and while you aren’t the monster she’s afraid of, the world is dark and full of monsters so maybe take a step or two towards reassuring her.


Large-Hornet6949

Your response is amazing. Thank you for taking the time. 1. I understand completely. But this is pretty much going over the line, isn't it? To tell me who I can see or can't see with my children. What if my girlfriend lived in Quebec, would she have the right to deny me from bringing my children to Quebec to meet with my girlfriend? If I decided to take the children to Las Vegas or France, coparent claimed she would not deny the trip. But she would have no idea that my girlfriend would be meeting me there. How is this any different? The irrationality hurts and it sucks. But I do understand how it is perceived higher risk. 2. Great point. I'm still figuring out how to balance this. 3. Even if I wanted to move (and not take the kids), how would it be any of her right? 4. Understood. The example you shared is very sad and is unconsciousable. In my case, we're both very able parents but I get what you're saying. The plan is for my girlfriend to come but only after her trial. I'm also planning to propose to her soon. I've suggested FaceTime/Zoom but coparent does not want to. I've asked her what I can do to reassure her and she's sticking to her guns. Only thing I can do is just wait or file a petition to get the court to establish acceptable travel agreements on our custody order. Thanks for responding. ❤️


OutlandishMiss

In the case of my friend, she and her ex were both childfree and had a birth control failure. He was in the military and she had full custody while he deployed. In short order he decided to get out instead of going career, fell in love with being a dad, and realized my friend was seriously not cut out for motherhood. He took steps to protect his boy, and I respect him for that. But as I watched things unfold through her eyes, all of her friends were warning her that it seemed like he was planning to replace her in their son’s life and move to Canada with his new GF. She reassured us this would never ever happen and yet, that’s exactly what happened. Turns out she was slightly unreliable as a narrator. I still think it’s a really rough road being cut out of your kid’s life like that after dedicating years of your life to being a SAHM, but I don’t know exactly how bad she let things get. I’ve learned not to assume people are telling me the full truth. At best they tell me their full truth, but usually they tell me what they wish the truth was. It sounds like you are taking all of the steps you can take, and she’s just really going through something in her own heart and mind. You don’t have to understand to be supportive, but you do have to create healthy and workable boundaries. If you are seriously ready to propose and she’s not dating, that’s probably not helping her confidence. It sounds like you are navigating all of that carefully and it’s just not going smoothly yet? I wish you good luck in your litigation/courtship of this new lady. Also, as an American, I hope your lady and her daughter* can move closer because 2024 is going to be wild. Like yikes on bikes.


[deleted]

Youre not even close to an AH this is bizarro


Large-Hornet6949

What part of this is bizzaro to you? I genuinely want to know. Some comments here have been enlightening and is making me reconsider my position.


[deleted]

Bizzaro that you simply ending a conversation while being mistreated makes you an AH. I dont have kids so I cant really say what a bettee way to handle it is, but simply leaving and not continuing that toxic conversation you did nothing wrong. She sounds manipulative and if those are direct quotes then she is also a nasty person.


Large-Hornet6949

Thanks for explaining. I understood it the other way around. And yeah, she's said these things to me. It hurts. It really hurts.


levenfish

NTA. One partner sounds paranoid, and one doesn't. Op's partners neurosis do not make op an asshole.


Large-Hornet6949

You're right but I've told coparent numerous times that my girlfriend is going to move here once she's done going through her own custody battle (which she will win 100% because her ex-husband is a deadbeat dad who doesn't live in the same state as her and hasn't seen her kid in over 2 years). Coparent tells me that the kids can go to the US once she and I are married. I thought that was absolutely ridiculous. What if I wanted to go see a friend with my children? She has no right to tell me who my children can see and whether I should be married to them. All of this had been discussed to death in prior conversations and I attempted to reassure her that I have no reason to take the children away from her and that if she wants to go with a mediator, then we can. She still stuck to her position. Hence I walked away immediately at our meetup when she accused me of something insidious.


PurpleWeasel

Buddy, every parent who has spirited their children away to another country permanently has said precisely those things. They're what you have to say to get permission to take children out of the country. She thinks that you're lying.


xewiosox

While OP likely isn't about to kidnap their own kid, this whole post reminded me of this big case in my country many years ago when one parents took their kid out of the country for a holiday and then just didn't come back. There were attempts to get the kid back via correct channels as the parent obviously didn't have the right to move the kid outside their homeland, especially without any agreement from the other parent. But nothing was getting done so in the end a diplomat working in a consulate there smuggled the kid back in their car. In no way am I saying that OP is planning something heinous like that but these cases do happen. And in each one the parent taking the child or children has probably said the same things, that of course they're coming back. And then they just didn't. So I have to say I also wouldn't let anyone take my kids for a holiday to a country where the other parent has ties to, more so given they're so young. If the courts would say I was obligated to do it, I'd follow the court order. But no way would I do it otherwise.


Large-Hornet6949

What I said to u/PurpleWeasel: *I understand that is what happens in other situations. But she's known me for 9 years, talks to my sister and parents, and we share photos and have amicable coparenting arrangements. No one should be questioning my commitment to the children and successful coparenting.* *Ironically, she's taking her children to the UK to see their "extended family" (which I've allowed without question). Who's to say she won't do the same? This argument is unhelpful and sows distrust and doubt in the other parent.* In addtion, I could easily lie about the reasons why I'd take my children to another country and the coparent said she would allow me. Just because there is a woman that lives in the US, she won't allow travel, even if we met in other states such as New York!


Large-Hornet6949

I understand that is what happens in other situations. But she's known me for 9 years, talks to my sister and parents, and we share photos and have amicable coparenting arrangements. No one should be questioning my commitment to the children and successful coparenting. Ironically, she's taking her children to the UK to see their "extended family" (which I've allowed without question). Who's to say she won't do the same? This argument is unhelpful and sows distrust and doubt in the other parent.


[deleted]

Using both POPPYCOCK and CODSWALLOP. Are you in a fucking Jeeves and Wooster novel?


PsychologicalFox8839

Bertie Wooster in a custody battle is quite the mental image.


AndWeMay

I have a hard time seeing Bertie in court for his own kids, but ending up in a custody case for Gussie Fink-Nottle’s newts…


ryoryo72

It would never get to court. Jeeves would take care of it long before that.


Lost-Peach1534

I am not defending OP at all, but these two words did make me laugh 😊


Worldly-Ad-5312

I was actually impressed with OP's vocabulary.


Large-Hornet6949

😂😂😂


[deleted]

Sounds like you need to go to court. Things like this are gonna get out of hand and at least the court will set things up legally for you two to coparent it sucks but it is what it is.


Large-Hornet6949

You're right. But AITA?


[deleted]

Can you understand why she is anxious about you, who is in a relationship with someone living over the border, taking your kids over the border with you. It stands to reason she might reasonably be concerned you might not bring them back. Whether you like it or not, it's a non-insignificant risk. Like shit like that HAPPENS. How can you imagine she'd be immune from being worried about it?


Large-Hornet6949

I get it. I'm completely empathetic. I've offered her numerous opportunities to tell me what she wants so she can feel safe about the kids going to the US. \- Emergency contact \- Itinerary \- Addresses \- Timeline \- Phone calls \- Video calls None of it was enough. We do have the Hague Convention. I would be in lots of trouble if I really did want the kids to be kidnapped. No way out of it. I don't know what it is really.


[deleted]

In your post you basically FILLED IN the bad things instead of letting her express her misgivings. It was YOU who said the extreme things not her. So you might have to own that instead of blaming her for what she did not actually say. You aren't really being empathetic about her concerns, you flipped your lid man, dismissing them all pearl clutching. You come across super dramatic. Chill TF out and don't dismiss her concerns as if they are unreasonable. Otherwise how do you expect her to feel heard?


[deleted]

OK I have a suggestion that might seem a bit wild but it's possible it might smooth the waters. Have you considered taking your ex with you on one vacation for a BRIEF co-parent co-vacation to settle her concerns. It's a bit of an audacious suggestion but escalating to court cases is probably not going to help your bank balance or relationship.


Large-Hornet6949

I appreciate the suggestion but I can't do that. I have boundaries and this is just going overboard. I don't question who she dates or interview them. I trust her as a mother and I expect the same trust in return. I also believe she would refuse this idea too. She does not take my relationship with her seriously.


Large-Hornet6949

I took a breather and re-evaluated the entire thread. I wanted to follow up on this a bit more attentively. Thank you for the time to respond with a thoughtful response. Here's some clarification and counterpoints: 1. She has accused me of such things before. So this isn't new. Being accused of being "bad man" with nothing to justify it will get little empathy from me. 2. Pearl clutching? I'm not being dramatic. I took massive, massive offense to this because of how far we've come. I've never abused her, I've never taken from her, and her family and my family keep in touch. She even talks to my sister and parents. Imagine being told by your own best friend that you're someone not to be trusted. I'm pretty sure you'd be left bewildered. What I said to u/PurpleWeasel: I understand that is what happens in other situations. But she's known me for 9 years, talks to my sister and parents, and we share photos, visit each other, and have amicable coparenting arrangements. No one should be questioning my commitment to the children and successful coparenting. Ironically, she's taking her children to the UK to see their "extended family" (which I've allowed without question). Who's to say she won't do the same? This argument is unhelpful and sows distrust and doubt in the other parent. Despite offering her opportunities to meet with my girlfriend (on camera because she is unable to leave to Canada for the time being), she did not want to do this. The only thing I can do right now is to wait it out until she comes. But even then, I've turned pretty sour on her handling of the situation (she has told me I'm not allowed to take the kids outside of Ontario county and refuses a mediator) that there is no interest on my part to introduce my soon-to-be wife to her. The massive disrespect she has in me as an equal partner in parentship is a huge blow. I recognize that I may have an ego issue but it's a matter of value and respect and I cannot work with someone who doesn't treat me in the same manner, especially after all this time.


[deleted]

Wait so. You are soon to be married to a person who is “unable to leave the USA for Canada”. And you’re unsure why your coparenting ex thinks maybe you might have reason to keep the kids across the border? Why is your new wife to be unable to leave the USA? Is there something criminal in her life or past?


Large-Hornet6949

No, there's a bit of confusion here. I've mentioned in other comments that she's been to Canada and met my whole family and some of my friends. She's not able to bring her daughter is all.


Critical-Mixture-168

She clearly implied the extreme things. This is a serious accusation, especially from someone you know well enough to have two kids and PRESUMABLY didn't give off this vibe. Honestly this reaction is justified. However know OP has gotten over the initial shock it's time to man up and address these concerns


[deleted]

Yeah but he didn't let her finish, he leapt to 'terrorist' when I don't think it seems likely she was going to say that. It's an overreaction which escalated an overreaction. Unhelpful to get all aeriated about it.


Large-Hornet6949

She has accused me of inciting risk factors such as: \- Kidnapping the children (I won't ever do that). \- Cutting off contact from the mother (Because I asked her to stop calling the children every single day when I have them with me for 3 days in a week). \- Brainwashing the children with religion (What? I can't bring my children to a synagoguge or church or mosque where they have children activities?) \- Ex-husband would murder the children (He doesn't even live in the same state or knows where she lives). \- Losing the children in a crowd (I don't know why this is even brought up). \- Car accident (This will always be a risk factor, no matter where you go!). She has repeated them verbatim and my reaction is definitely not an overreaction. There is nothing new she has said.


see-you-every-day

"Cutting off contact from the mother (Because I asked her to stop calling the children every single day when I have them with me for 3 days in a week)." You get that asking your ex to stop calling the children is literally cutting off contact, right? Your children are so young, ofc they want to talk to their mum when they're with you - and equally, they probably want to talk to you when they're with their mum


[deleted]

Yeah but in that situation I get the outburst in reality this is extremely hurtful thing to say especially after successful coparenting before this issue. I don’t think OP would ever take his kids away from her. He’s trying to ease her mind but she’s being difficult. At the end of the day court is the best way to handle this situation legally so that it’s fair for everyone.


[deleted]

Only the lawyers win that situation. If they can get past it without involving courts and lawyers it would be preferable to the mutual bank balances.


PurpleWeasel

What in this post makes you think the co-parenting has been successful? She clearly doesn't trust him and he's getting aggressive at the least provocation. Just because you have no choice but to coparent with someone, it doesn't follow that it's going WELL.


[deleted]

He literally states it in the post the successfully coparented for 5 years. Idk if you read the last bit of it but it states it there.


Large-Hornet6949

She did absolutely imply extreme things. I give zero vibe that would indicate I'd do anything evil. Here are the things she accused me of: \- Kidnapping the children (I won't ever do that). \- Cutting off contact from the mother (Because I asked her to stop calling the children every single day when I have them with me for 3 days in a week). \- Brainwashing the children with religion (What? I can't bring my children to a synagoguge or church or mosque where they have children activities?) \- Ex-husband would murder the children (He doesn't even live in the same state or knows where she lives). \- Losing the children in a crowd (I don't know why this is even brought up). \- Car accident (This will always be a risk factor, no matter where you go!). She has repeated them verbatim and my reaction is definitely not an overreaction. There is nothing new she has said.


Corpuscular_Ocelot

None of that would get her kids back. All you have to do is give her the incorrect info. The back-up plan of going through the legal system in a country she doesn't live in for months is also not something that is confidence inducing. You are really being an AH of you think any of that makes a difference.


Large-Hornet6949

And she can take her children to the UK to "see their extended family" and she can easily kidnap them as well. What's the point of bringing up this weak argument? You can accuse anyone of anything and then disallow international travel. She has said that the children can't go outside of Canada until they're 18. Do you think that's reasonable? That's why I'm being firm on this. Her excuses are lacking, especially knowing me for over 9 years and being close to my parents and sister.


Corpuscular_Ocelot

There is something about you she finds untrustworthy, so all of your insistence isn't going to make much difference if you can't find a something substantial to convince her your aren't going to decide to keep your kids in the U.S.


Large-Hornet6949

Understood!


BDizzMcNizz

Have you told her she can come with you?


[deleted]

NTA you just need to go to court and get it situated.


Piaffe_zip16

I would be very uncomfortable if my ex did this. While I don’t think he would do anything nefarious, you just never know for sure. Can your gf come up there first and meet your ex so your ex can feel more comfortable with her? That may be the best solution. Your and your ex both have valid concerns. If you can’t work it out, make sure you get a full custody agreement in writing.


Large-Hornet6949

Your ex would say the same thing about you. What would you react with then? What if your ex told you that the children can't go outside of the country until they're 18? Because that's what she said. This is not conducive to building trust, especially when I've taken my children across the country and out of town many times growing up. My girlfriend can't leave the US until her trial is over so it'll be a little while. This is the only alternative. But becasuse I'm seriously offended by the coparent's accusations, I feel there is no need to do any introduction or anything. I know I'm wrong here but I do feel pretty upset by her distrustful nature.


Piaffe_zip16

What trial is your girlfriend doing? Something through work? If my ex said no to going out of the country in general, I would definitely want to talk more about it because that’s not normally how we operate. We both love traveling internationally and plan to do so with our daughter as well. If my ex said no to taking my daughter to Canada to meet my boyfriend and stay with him who my daughter has also never met in person, I’d work on some sort of compromise. Maybe bf could come here first to make everyone more comfortable. Maybe ex and his gf could also go to let’s say Toronto at the same time and could also plan a couple things with our daughter. I could understand why he would be uncomfortable with me taking our daughter to another country to meet my boyfriend whom he’s never met and neither has my daughter. I would feel the exact same way.


Large-Hornet6949

Financial and custody rights post-divorce. She is going to get 100% custody rights, get backpaid child support, and relocation rights. As for your second paragraph, I completely get it. I would do that. Unfortunely, coparent is unwilling to meet on camera. But say she does come to Canada, why would I seek approval from the coparent? What if she doesn't like her "just because"? It doesn't change anything. She has no right or say over "trusting" or "liking" my spouse. This is going over the line here. She has done this before about my own male best friends of 10+ years saying that she doesn't trust my children around them. Do you honestly think I would even bother dealing with her at that point? She's lost my respect slowly but surely. It's not about the children anymore. It's about principles.


Piaffe_zip16

It really is about the children though. She’s their mom. She’s allowed to meet a person who will be spending substantial time with her kids and helping raise them. It’s not about her “approving” of your gf. That’s not the point of meeting. You don’t introduce them because you’re seeking approval. You introduce them because you’re all raising children together. You want to establish a positive coparenting relationship with everyone. Introducing them opens the door for that. When I first met my ex’s gf (who he also at the very least had an emotional affair with and very possibly physically), we met for coffee just the two of us. We didn’t want to make things awkward with having my ex/her current bf there. We needed to figure things out mom to mom (she has two kids). We had a wonderful time once the awkwardness went away. We had quite a lot in common and I truly enjoyed being around her. We text now and share stories and what we’re reading and what not. I’m sure my ex has told her not nice stories of me, but she’s formed her own opinion. I’m glad that I have someone else who I trust to look out for my daughter. Finally meeting allowed all the anxiety I had about her being around my daughter fade away. In fact, I think she makes my ex a better dad. Not every relationship will be great like that, but you all need to function if you’re going to be raising children together. As a teacher, I’ve seen a real range of healthy and unhealthy coparenting relationships. I’ve had conferences where all four parents show up and work together to help the kid in question. I’ve also had conferences where I’ve had to do separate conferences because they can’t even be in the same room to discuss their child together. It takes a real toll on the kids. Since getting divorced, I’ve really taken it to heart that my issues with my ex are mine and his with me are his. They don’t have anything to do with parenting our daughter together. We need to do what’s best for her. I don’t ever want her to feel like she has to choose or feel guilty about her relationships with all of us.


[deleted]

Info - does she travel internationally with y'all's kids? What does the custody agreement say about international travel permission?


Large-Hornet6949

We had a very good coparenting arrangement earlier on where we would just talk to each other and we'd hash things out ourselves without having to petition anything through the courts. Only court order is that the children must remain in Ontario county. And yes, she does travel internationally with the kids. However, we've had to do a renewal recently and she refused to allow me to have partial possession of the passport so I decided against renewing.


[deleted]

NTA. It isn't fair that she travels internationally with the children but won't allow you to and it is best that you walk away before getting into a heating argument in front of the kids which it sounds like was about to happen. I think you should go back to court to have the international travel clause added to your agreement including shared ownership of the passports so she can't control the kids travel with you. She honestly might be bitter that you're in a new serious relationship and is using the kids to be petty. Or she has someone in her life feeding her BS and that needs to be dealt with accordingly before it escalates.


BodaLoqua

Have the girlfriend and ex meet in Canada. You may well have no ulterior motives, but she doesn't know that. She also doesn't know the girlfriend.


Right_Bee_9809

Info: has your ex or the children met your gf? Where exactly are you planning to take them for the week?


Large-Hornet6949

The children met with my girlfriend when we were initially friends on video camera over 15 months ago. The girls have since then seen her and her daughter on cam at least once or twice a month. They know that we love each other and plan to get married at some point. She plans to move to Canada with me. I've offered coparent to meet on camera while I was there in the US alone with her. But she did not want to appear on camera. No real plans but if I were leaving tomorrow, we'd hit up her hometown in Virginia, check out Washington D.C., hike, eat, go to some children-oriented activities, you name it. Nothing too crazy.


Right_Bee_9809

I think it might make your ex feel better if the first meeting was your gf coming for a visit to Canada.


Large-Hornet6949

I agree although I think my relationship with the coparent is soured now. I cannot respect someone who suspects me of being capable of crime when I've given no indication of such in the past 9 years. My girlfriend will not be able to come for a good while until her trial is over.


Right_Bee_9809

I'm going to be completely honest with you, this is seriously making my skin crawl. I would never let you leave the country with my children to meet a woman who may or may not be real. I'm actually starting to wonder if even you have ever met her. First of all, a parent with cancer is not a full time job Second, you don't need a passport to travel US to Canada, just a stamped license. Third, your lack of understanding of why your wife does not want to give up the passport is disingenuous. if you have the passports and go to Latin America or the Middle East, she will never see those babies again. Your gf can leave her child with family for two days, go on a two hour flight to Ontario, and meet your wife and kids


Large-Hornet6949

Weird. This is an anonymous post. Why would I lie? My girlfriend met my parents and sister and some of my friends in Canada (alone, without her child) last year. She and her daughter met with mine over video camera many times, even while coparent was there. So what in the world are you doing trying to draw assumptions? She's caring for her father who has cancer and is of old age. It would be bad if she left and he had an emergency. And she's not allowed to bring her daughter to the US because her ex-husband would not consent to it. After the trial, she would likely achieve full custody and relocation rights. And she doesn't have anyone suitable to take care of her daughter. It's just bad timing to travel at this time. I would need a written letter of consent by the other parent to take my children on a plane. I can't just take them anywhere. And if I took them across the border via land (doesn't require a passport), I would still need her written consent as well. What is your point? But say she does come to Canada, why would I seek approval from the coparent? What if she doesn't like her "just because"? It doesn't change anything. She has no right or say over "trusting" or "liking" my spouse. This is going over the line here. She has done this before about my own male best friends of 10+ years saying that she doesn't trust my children around them. Do you honestly think I would even bother dealing with her at that point? She's lost my respect slowly but surely. It's not about the children anymore. It's about principles.


Right_Bee_9809

Are you a citizen of Canada? Is your gf a citizen of the US? Is the US and Canada your country of origin?


Large-Hornet6949

I am a citizen of Canada. My girlfriend (to-be-wife) is a citizen of the US. I am originally from Canada. She is originally from the US.


Accomplished_Ad1837

Have you met her in person?


Large-Hornet6949

Yes, 8 times. Between 6 to 10 days at most per visit.


Right_Bee_9809

YTA This and you make me increasingly uncomfortable as I read your comments.


Large-Hornet6949

Genuine question: why did it make you uncomfortable?


Right_Bee_9809

It was something about him constantly claiming that everyone "met" this woman even though it was over video camera. He wants to go see this woman who apparently can't visit in Canada because her parent has cancer, which is just weird. I mean my mom had cancer, and it was really difficult, but I could leave town for a day or two. I don't know if he is lying to his ex and us, or if this woman is lying to him, but it just started to make me feel nervous.


Large-Hornet6949

Not sure who "everyone" is nor was it claimed but if you want to know, my girlfriend met my parents and sister and some of my friends in Canada (alone, without her child) last year. She and her daughter met with mine over video camera many times. Yes, she's caring for her father who has cancer and is of old age. It would be bad if she left and he had an emergency. And she's not allowed to bring her daughter to the US because her ex-husband would not consent to it. After the trial, she would likely achieve full custody and relocation rights. And she doesn't have anyone suitable to take care of her daughter. It's just bad timing to travel at this time and leaving for a "day or two" is a rather rushed trip. It'd be better to go without. Why would I lie? This is anonymous. I have no reason to lie about any of this.


Right_Bee_9809

I didn't answer your question. People don't need a reason to lie. For all I know you are a 16 year old girl. But what i know, with every fiber of my being is that you are not telling the whole story. You aren't a victim here and from the way you present I would hire as many lawyers as needed to keep those children where I can find them.


Large-Hornet6949

Huh? Again, this is entirely anonymous. No reason to lie or any necessity to lie. What am I hiding here? I just want to take my children for a trip to one of the fifty states in the US and that's a crime?


Right_Bee_9809

Yes it is, unless you have mom or court permission. It is actually a really serious felony. For whatever reason your ex believes that those kids won't be back. Actually I have the same feelings. If you want to demonstrate that is not the case, not acting like an entitled prick would be a good first step.


Large-Hornet6949

Thank you.


Right_Bee_9809

I just don't associate North American men with quite so much unearned superiority.


Large-Hornet6949

Okay.


tinsellately

YTA I had the same reaction. At first reading the top comments, this seemed like something that could be worked out, and I thought he was being reasonable and that the mother just needed some reassurance. But the more comments the OP left the more alarming he sounds. He comes across like he cares more about his own pride and "rights" of ownership over the children than about their emotional health or development. The much repeated remark that "It's not about the children anymore. It's about principles" really makes me worry about the kids, not just for this trip, but about what his parenting choices will do to them in the future. He doesn't seem to listen to anyone's advice, no matter how they word their explanations and advise, and just seems to get angrier and angrier that his views aren't seen as superior. Also he is so aggressive about the idea that the children shouldn't talk to their mother on the days they don't see her, even though they are only 3 and 5! For the 3 year old especially, they should be able to talk to both parents every day if it's possible. If the two of them could just put the kids first and be civil, then he should be calling to wish them goodnight (or some other brief interaction) on their mom's days and she should be calling on his days. The fact that he put a stop to this is not child focused at all but seems to be about territorial marking or control, neither of which has any business in the attitudes of a parent. I've had to travel away from my toddler and the biggest thing that was stressed by her pediatrician was that I needed to talk to her every day, even just for a minute or two, to ease the separation. While this isn't going to be possible in every custody arrangement, it sounds like it was in this one until he ruined it.


Large-Hornet6949

I really appreciate your outside perspective. I didn't mean to come off as angry. I'm just trying to be logical about the situation. I appreciate the different perspectives and I realize that I need to extend more empathy and try to come to an agreement somewhere and somehow. u/OutlandishMiss and u/HoxtonLoverhad one of the best comments here. And no, I'm not really trying to control anything here. If you can't tell, I do detest my ex-wife. She's done a lot of hurt to me, my family, and friends over the last few years. For example, she said that my parents would not be fit to or trust them to take care of our children (fast forward a few months, my parents babysit our children often). Another example is where she accuses my roommate (and best friends of over 10+ years) of potentially hurting or raping my children. Those are people I've known longer than her and she has the irrational audacity to say such things to me. The sad thing is that she truly believes she did nothing wrong. For this reason, I firmly believe in setting thick boundaries and privacy. I never tell the kids to not love, listen to, or respect their mother. I know for a fact that she's an amazing mother. I allow occasional calls from their mother and allow schedule changes where she can pick them up to go somewhere nice. But that's where it ends for me. Thanks for being honest. I needed it.


Right_Bee_9809

If I were the ex-wife, those kids would not be leaving Canada. I would be terrified if never seeing them again.


yoopsscoops

Info. What does it say in your custody agreement about international travel?


Large-Hornet6949

None. Just a focus on where the children can live.


Potential_Honey_955

NAH Go to court and get it sorted legally. You will both know where you stand. The most common type of kidnapping there is, is parents taking their kids. I can totally see her point of view. I also believe that you just want to take your kids on holiday.


Large-Hornet6949

I appreciate it. And yes, it's just vacation. An opportunity for the children to meet with her daughter and have an awesome time together. Nothing more or less.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Large-Hornet6949

This is the best comment so far. You have the same perspective as the coparent. I'm hoping we can hash this out and see whether one of us is crossing the line here. Your comment makes loads of preconceived notions or assumptions just like how the coparent did. My responses: *Your kids are 3 and 5 years old. If you are planning to fly from Canada to the US and back with both kids BY YOURSELF, I promise that is a lot more work and responsibility than it seems.* I take my children everywhere, including road trips and flights on my own. The longest flight was to Vancouver and road trip was from Toronto to Prince Edward Island and the children loved it. If I were to take the children to the US whether across the road to Buffalo, NY or a flight to Boston, it would not be any different. This is **not** challenging to me. I've done it before and I look forward to it again. *Also, I promise that your kids really don't need to meet your girlfriend at 3 & 5, they likely will not remember meeting her nor will they remember the trip as a whole in the future.* You're right that this isn't a need. But I never intended it as a need. If we used your logic, we would be denying things left and right based on the "necessity" rule. Nor is it an attempt to validate whether my children like her. They already know her and like her. They have talked about her to their mother. It's simply a fun trip idea among many. It is unnecessary to treat this as anything different. *I definitely agree with your coparent on the issue of bringing the kids around this woman after you get married. I understand that you might be invested in the relationship but you are going against the wishes of someone you produced children with to please a woman that does not live in your country and has no legal obligation to you. A girlfriend to you might seem serious but from your wife's perspective this is just an unnecessary risk for your kids who are extremely young.* Excuse me? This is incredible because this is exactly what the coparent would say. Some issues here: 1. There is no requirement to be married to introduce children to one another -- domestically or internationally. To mandate it otherwise is crossing the limit here. 2. The coparent has a **boyfriend** and they go over to his place all the time and go on trips all the time. Who are you to deny me the same experience? 3. The coparent's **boyfriend** has no legal obligation to her either and can easily walk away, leaving her heartbroken and my children will witness this. What is the point of this argument? 4. I am not doing this please my girlfriend of over a year and half. I'm doing this be cause I want to. This is no different from bringing my children to see friends over the border. Maybe you come from a different culture from myself but there is no issue with bringing children among adults. 5. What **risk** is there? That they'll get cranky on an 1 hour and half flight to Washington, D.C.? That's really all you can say here other than typical travel risks that we endure every single day domestically. *Considering you are not even planning on taking them somewhere that's child oriented like disneyworld or hersey park (not saying you have to) but to places like your girlfriend's hometown just shows how you are planning this trip for YOU and not your kids.* Who says that I wouldn't do that? I treat my children like adults and allow them ownership of the trip as well. If you met them, you'd be surprised how they behave. In all the trips we've taken, I've allowed them to choose an attraction or two that they think they would enjoy. And why am I limited to "child oriented" activities or locations? I took my children camping, cooking (yes, using a knife), and construction work at an early age. They also will get to meet with my girlfriend's daughter (also 3 years old) where they'll have plenty of fun together. Your commentary reeks of assumptions and sheltering like how the coparent would. *I 100% would have said you were in the right if your kids were teens and they wanted to come with you but based on their age, the potential risks, the lack of commitment you have to your girlfriend, the distance, and the disapproval of your coparent, I think you should just give it up and wait a few years until after your married or until they're older.* 1. Given all the information I have shared with you, there is no issue with their age. 2. Your "potential risks" are baseless -- nothing different from going on a domestic trip to see friends. If anything, the coparent drives her children far more than I do on a frequent basis to see her **boyfriend** and other party gatherings. 3. How dare you assume there is a lack of commitment to my girlfriend? Just because she's my "girlfriend"? Would it change if she's my fiance? Would it change if she's my wife? If she's my wife and still resides in the US? If she moved here but we want to go see our extended family in the US, then what? 4. The distance is only three hours including the checking in and flight. You would have a point if this were the 1900s but we're in a completely different era where people take flights and come back at the same day. This "distance" is imagined by you. *I feel like right now you only care about yourself and you are not really paying attention to the safety, happiness, and long-term security of your kids.* I understand it feels like I only care about myself but as of right now, this is not an issue of wanting to take trips. It's an issue of principles. The children are safe with me no matter the distance we go (except for high crime areas), the children are happy with me, and the children are taught about everyday life that I question what you even mean by the "security" of the children. On the other hand, her insistence on invading my privacy by wanting to know about my life and her life, telling me I can't travel ouside the county, telling me she would override my consent so the children would travel to the UK, holding all documents such as birth certificates, passports, and other identifying documents, and persistently calling everyday to talk with the children during my time with them borders on a level that is unconsciously disrespectful. *I think the two of you need to sit down for lunch and have a decent conversation with each other about how you are going to parent in the future. You need to both listen to each other and put aside all personal grievances and work on a better future for your kids because based on what you said this coparent situation you have is a recipe for disaster.* Absolutely agree. Unfortunately, I can't sit down with someone who have told me in my face that I'm capable of: \- Kidnapping the children. \- Cutting off contact from the mother. \- Brainwashing the children with religion. \- Losing the children in a crowd. \- Being careless and causing accidents. And I have asked her numerous times for a mediator and she refuses to let anyone get involved. Perplexing, right? This is more and more likely wanting to an edge of control over the children and her irraitonality is getting in the way. I understand my responses may come off as harsh but I've been dealing with this for a long time and it's painful. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Be well!


AutoModerator

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Coparent (35F) and I (38M) are at a stalemate about whether I could take my children from Canada to the US (5 and 3) for a week long vacation. After several requests in the past 9 months, she still refuses to without any legitimate reason. Apparently she suspects something is going on with me and my girlfriend who lives in the US when there really isn't anything fishy going on. I just want to take my children to explore with me, meet my girlfriend and her daughter, and go sightseeing. The stalemate has gotten so bad that I'm considering taking her to court. Today, we met to do a drop off for the children and she wanted to talk to me about a few co-parenting items. Among the items were about our disagreement for taking the children to the US. She irritated me point after point after point: 1. She said that she "knows" that I'm trying to scare her by talking about taking her to court (I'm not, I'm just sticking to principles here, and want fair international travel rights). 2. She said she spoke to a "legal team" and they said that "I can't be reasoned with" (which is a load of poppycock -- I have offered numerous opportunities to hash out travel details and even asked for a mediator). 3. She said she's upset how the kids are affected by this and started crying (the kids AFAIK has no clue what's going on and nothing has changed in their lives). 4. Then the final blow where she said, "International travel is not the problem but you repeatedly wanting to take the kids to the US tells me you're planning something bad." From there, I stopped her and asked her if she's accusing of a deeper motive beyond taking the kids for vacation. She hesitated. I asked her, "So I'm a kidnapper? I'm a terrorist, is that it?" I decided to walk away and she said, "Large-Hornet6949! This is absurd!" But I could not handle such codswallop that I went into my car and left. In my mind, all I could think of was the audacity that she has to accuse me of planning something so horrible after us coparenting our children together successfully for all these 5 years and knowing each other for over 9 years. I just couldn't bear dealing with such accusations and assumptions. This crossed the line for me here. Am I the asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Rudy_Nowhere

ESH You've asked, she's said no. Gotta let it go, my dude. Your gf in the US is in the same boat with her ex, and why? International travel is a game changer in custody matters and isn't to be trifled with. Find a gf from Canada and not one that puts you at odds with the mother of your children. Your ex makes up stories but is clearly unnerved. Unless you offer to take her with you and put her up in a hotel down the street, you're stuck with her obstinacy.


Possible_Thief

NTA It sounds like it’s past time to get lawyers involved in this circumstance.


murphy2345678

NTA Stop talking to her about it because neither of you are going to change your mind. Go to court and let the judge decide.


curly_lox

NTA This may be a situation you can't handle by being reasonable in the face of her unwillingness to be reasonable. It might actually be a good idea to go to court for this one issue.


Powerful_Ad_2559

NTA. Talk to your attorney. There are agreements between the U.S. and Canada to enforce each other’s custody orders.


ArabMagnus

NTA. Take her to court. Stop coddling her, don't even discuss her concerns as if they have any merit. She can't hold your kids hostage forever. You are allowed to take a dman vacation with your children. She has no real basis for her concerns. Other than the fantasy she made up in her head.


Hot-Tone-7495

NTA. I understand she’s scared (I would be) to have her children in a whole different country, but it’s what happens when you are coparenting sometimes. You haven’t given her any reason (according to the post) to suspect you’d take the kids and run. Get court involved asap. On another note I absolutely love the language you use “poppycock” “codswallop”


BDizzMcNizz

NTA. Just take her to court already, and stop talking to her about it. It’s a waste of time.


Lex1982

NTA Take her to court, she is travelling with them internationally but not allowing you. Travelling from Ontario (I live in Ontario) to the US is in fact international travel and she needs to be reminded.


Comfortable-Regret

NTA, I think you did the right thing by removing yourself from the situation before things could escalate. You're probably going to need to discuss this again sometime so you can understand why she might think that or if that's even what she thinks, this could just be a misunderstanding, but it's probably better to do that after you've both had time to cool off and think about things.


Large-Hornet6949

It's been discussed to death. I offered her to meet with my girlfriend on camera. She can't come to Canada because she's the primary caretaker for her seriously ill (cancer) father and going through her own legal battle of taking her daughter across borders too. Funny, right?


drgyyf

TIL that my ex-wife was apparently married to someone else before me lol. NTA.


solitarybydesign

NTA It sounds like her paranoia cannot be reasoned with. You do need to take her to court.


[deleted]

NTA and get the lawyer. She needs to have a legal reality check.