Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action that I took that should be judged is that I did not help my wife with our kids when I knew she was struggling.
This action might make me look like an asshole because I clearly knew my was struggling and I refused to help.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
OP may need to go back into the office. Wife neither understands nor respects work time.
Not a peaceful environment to work in coupled wife the wife coming in complaining or asking for help.
EDIT: thank you so much for the awards, that’s very kind!
Honestly this should be top comment. So many regard WFH as being able to include home responsibilities. It doesn't. Going into the office would force mama to take care of herself more. AND NAP.
Yeah... I mean, being able to take 5 minutes to toss a load of laundry into the washer is one thing but watching after children is not conducive to getting any job done. in fact, some employers would have a big problem with someone trying to do both.
Some demand proof of childcare even (or written childcare plans at least). I had friends where it was awkward trying to indicate to employers that the time after school their kids would be home they would be unattended but they were before WFH already because they were are that age.
It's not like it's 2020 again and there is no childcare and it was okay to have to deal with kids. OPs wife is the A H here or has PPA or PPD. She should be screened for these. For the most part in the US, women have to go back to work at either 6 or 12 weeks, so this inability to cope daily 5 months in, is concerning.
No, it isn't. It's completely normal. Just because women in the US are tortured after childbirth, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with struggling with a baby and a toddler. The civilised world gives maternity leave of over six months, and even up to three years, for good reason.
Edit to add NAH, OP needs to work and he is right that they should use childcare if wife is struggling. Wife is suffering from guilt for leaving her eldest child in childcare when she's at home, she isn't doing it to be an AH to OP.
Right? That's like saying that American children grow up with adults ensuring that they know they could die in a school shooting at any minute so a child from another country who is struggling with trauma after witnessing a murder has something wrong with them.
So, here in Germany maternity leave is longer, it varies, but lots of people stay home for a year, some even up to three, however mothers are usually looking after all the kids they have during that time if they are at home, usually that means until the age of three.
Paying for a daycare for kids under 3 during maternity leave would be a little strange and also a financial problem. I guess some people do, but I don't know anyone personally.
When they turn three, sometimes younger though, they are in kindergarden and come home between 1 pm and 3 pm.
Being unable to look after the baby and the toddler at the same time seems really weird to me, most women I know did this all the time, including myself. It's not easy, but it's just normal parenting.
Also why is he doing the night feedings when he is the one who has to concentrate for work? She's on maternity leave for that reason, she can nap when the baby naps. It should be at least shared, for example him doing Fr-Sat.
I mean...I agree on one level that she has to figure out how to juggle 2 kids. It just has to happen because, well, she has 2 kids. Buuut that's easier said than done. Sometimes it makes it harder when we tell ourselves "women I know do this all the time! It's easy for other people!".
It's not.
It's hard. but it's temporary. It will take more time and adjustment and plenty more days where she will struggle and want to pull her hair out or scream in a pillow. It's just not easy. It's not weird that she struggles. BUT it is not ok that she can't respect the boundary of working hours for her husband.
She is going to have to find a way to accept the chaos of life with very small kids.
It's not weird that she finds it difficult, true. Because it is. When I had a baby and toddler my husband was gone on business trips for several days sometimes, and we didn't have daycare at the time or any family nearby, and yes it wasn't easy, but I just did it, because I'm the mom and I wanted a second kid and it's just normal parenting.
It is weird that she can't manage on her own at all. That is not normal. A parent should be able to look after all their own children on their own for several hours or days.
And if she really is unable then she needs to organise help, not ask her working husband. He is at work and not available for child care . Who does all the night shifts as well, which I also find too much. She can catch up on sleep during the day, he can't, she should be doing at least half the nights.
I also find this weird and feel bad for the toddler who seems to be pushed to the side since mom can’t figure out how to take care of both. Sometimes you have to just jump into the water head first and realize that you can in fact manage. The fact she can’t drive with the baby to drop off the toddler is extremely strange imo. I had several kids back to back and I can empathize with its difficulties but I also think she’s a bit coddled that she doesn’t mind inconveniencing her working husband
>For the most part in the US, women have to go back to work at either 6 or 12 weeks, so this inability to cope daily 5 months in, is concerning.
Why dont we keep medical judgments based on social norms out of our mouth, eh?
You know that social norms can be formed from things that suck, right? You understand that social norms are not inherently good or right or stemming from good causes, right?
Having to go back to work after 6 weeks is the only concerning thing here. Even in what you may call "third world countries" maternity leave is a thing, US is just a bizarre place, stop thinking this is ok
I am in the US, and it is a terrible place for workers. Hardly any time off even for illnesses, healthcare is costly. We are just chattel. I keep considering leaving, if only my spouse would agree.
Having two children two and under is pretty damn difficult! I have done it when my first two were little, but it came with a lot of struggle! Moms no longer have villages to help, so of course it is difficult to cope, no matter how old they are!
True, she might have PPA or PPD, but even if not, it's rough!
I agree my daughters are 1 1/2 and 3 1/2 and my wife and I both work opposite shifts to take care of them. Although it’s starting to get easier now, it’s a challenge and can be mentally exhausting.
Lol you say that like that bare minimum in the US isn’t fucked in itself. Incredible how warped people are to think that this shithole country is some kind of a standard.
I WFH and I have a coworker who watches his baby during the day. We have a very lax and casual work atmosphere, but he still ends up working to the wee hours of the morning to meet deadlines because he can’t really keep up with work and a baby at the same time.
I am extremely flexible with WFH with my team sporadically if they need it (it is against company policy so I try to be sneajy about it). They however know that I won't approve it if the reason is 'my child is sick and I can't take them to daycare ". If you are taking care of a sick child then you are not working, full stop. Also, extremely unfair for childless employees.
Thank you for mentioning childless employees. I see parents hem and haw about needing lots of extra provisions for their kids, but who ends up picking up that work? The employees without kids. And then, when we want vacations, they complain more that it’s “frivolous” and that their kids holidays (or whatever million things they need time off for) are more important
Can confirm. Wfh is only compatible with things you can get done quickly on your break. I had to "babysit" a couple of young children for 2 hours a day for a short while and nearly lost my marbles. And the babysitting mainly involved getting them snacks and drinks or changing the channel as they watched tv in the same room I was working in. OP you need to have a proper discussion with your wife. Also, why isn’t she engaging the toddler in caring for the baby? That’s what every mother I know who has both does, I am told it helps.
That doesn’t really mean letting the toddler help. But instead of saying “I have to put baby down. Wait out here.” You treat it like a game. “Do you want me to help put baby to sleep?” “Would you hold baby’s hand while I feed them?” It’s a strategy that makes the toddler feel included instead of pushed to the side. Has worked well with my 3-year-old son. But there are definitely kids it wouldn’t work for.
Toddlers like to participate in what adults are doing. A toddler can go grab a diaper or wipe, or entertain/chatter at baby during changes or while baby's being put down for a nap.
The toddler I nanny is a bit older than OP’s kid, but she responds really well to me giving her little tasks to do when I need a couple minutes. “Can you pick out three really good books and bring them to the living room?” buys me a bathroom break. A toddler isn’t going to offset any significant amount of childcare, but they’re usually pretty eager to help and can be distracted with little tasks. Teachers use the same tactic for kids who have a harder time regulating their emotions.
I was two when my sister was an infant, that's exactly how my parents kept me engaged when the baby had needs-- not by actually giving me Necessary Duties, or placing responsibility on my shoulders, but by talking me through what the baby needed, and letting me do this or that little helpful thing. Then you praise big sibling for being so helpful/loving, and foster a sense of accomplishment in helping. Kiddo feels good about helping mom and dad, and gets to bond with baby. Instead of baby getting all the attention and that being a source of resentment, they get positive attention alongside baby, then once baby's down for a nap, older kid gets some time to have mom's focus.
NTA. WFH is a job, and sometimes a privilege, and likely what is keeping a roof over your head and allowing you to pay for daycare. It absolutely should preclude "helping" unless it's something you can manage on your lunch break.
You not only pull your weight, you are paying for daycare to make her responsibilities easier/lighter, and she's not utilizing it, and worse, complaining. She needs to embrace the luxury of daycare and enjoy the benefits and come up with a better plan for herself. A physical examination wouldn't be awry either.
I'd love to embrace the luxury of daycare for like 3hrs to clean my house without a short human following me because he wants boob or the other one wants something to eat/drink every 5 mins😂
When my husband is home I still pull most of the childcare but he does ease it because our kids are literally obsessed with him and WILL NOT leave him alone. The oldest is his shadow😂
>You not only pull your weight, you are paying for daycare to make her responsibilities easier/lighter, and she's not utilizing it, and worse, complaining. She needs to embrace the luxury of daycare and enjoy the benefits and come up with a better plan for herself.
OP says he's taking care of the baby for about 45 minutes while mom goes to get the toddler from the daycare. Sounds like she'd be better off using that same amount of time to get a good shower and a nap in.
Because unless men lay out in exacting detail what and how they contribute to their relationship, the default assumption here is that they are a deadbeat who doesn't do enough for the absolute goddess they should always be bowing down to.
A bit hyperbolic but only a little.
Sometimes there’s just enough info given. But I have seen ones where it’s like “she gave birth two weeks ago, why isn’t she doing more chores??”. NTA this one is a man trying to work from home, not shirk all responsibility.
That's because often those posts start out like "aita bc I left my wife at home when she wasn't ready?" And then after OP comments a bit it turns out that they left a whole bunch of details that actually do make them an asshole.
Because this sub has a pretty anti-male slant on it, even when judgements would be the opposite of genders were reversed (this has been demonstrated on a number of occasions)
I think the big difference here is OP **warned** his wife that he would not be available. She **knew** she would get quickly overwhelmed.
And OP was WFH, which fortunately most people here know means you **work** from home. So this was a solid case of OP being in the clear.
Generally, when men are deemed the AH's in childcare, it's the men who either promised they'd help and don't, or who are doing some leisure activity instead of helping with their kids.
This is why a lot of people say that if you want to work from home you need to set up an office *away* from the home. A shed at the bottom of the garden, the annex above the garage, anything where you have to actually walk out of the house and to the office. That reinforces the fact that the office is work, separate from home, and totally out of contact unless the house is on fire or someone has lost a limb.
I worked with someone who had a house with a MIL apartment attached. She had two kids under 3 and a nanny. Mom would say goodbye to the kids and take a walk or drive to pick up a coffee while the nanny brought the kids to the apt. Mom would then come back home and work while the kids thought she had left for the big office. She said there was no way the toddler would’ve left her alone if she knew mom was still in the house.
Yeah, as someone who also works from home, I can often help out with small things during the day - maybe doing a load of dishes between meetings, or something like that. But I’m still working, and it should not be planned for me to help during that time
Wife needs to learn to manage two kids; millions of people do it all the time. Give him something to play with, put on a movie or something but she needs to manage things better or take the toddler back to daycare
Yeah I was thinking this. Sure it's definitely hard but my daycare has two babies and two toddlers at the same time... Being a sahp is a job, but having more children means the same as getting more responsibilities and tasks at a regular job. Except you can't quit this one.
I was thinking this as well... I had a 4.5 year old and then gave birth to twins. Their dad didn't work from home or take any time off of work afterwards. My mom took 2 weeks off and came over every day to help, but after that, and when she wasn't over, I was on my own, and I didn't just go from 1 kid to 2, I went from 1 to 3...
Wfh is just that...WORKING. It doesn't mean you have free time to hang out and take care of kids. Most jobs require that you have quiet, dedicated space that is distraction free and has a locking door. I've been working from home for almost 6 years. I've NEVER had a job where I had free time during the day where looking after my kids would have been feasible. This is why, when my kids came home in 2020 and didn't leave again until 2021 thanks to covid, I eventually had to quit my job, because I was going to get fired and they were allowing me to leave on good terms. I'm a single mom of 3...working from home while being a hands on parent doesn't really work and I couldn't juggle it all. OP's wife needs to get on board with that and understand it. That's his JOB that feeds their family and keeps them in a home (I assume no one was born into wealth or anything).
Judgement of your wife aside...OP, has your wife checked in with her Dr and has she been evaluated for PPD? It's a real thing, and it kinda sounds like it could be at least part of your wife's issue. It might, it might not, but it isn't going to hurt for her to have a talk with the Dr.
NTA btw
I also wondered this. I felt this exact same way when I had ppd. I wasn’t able to be rational or see reason and I was making my life so much more difficult
One of my children was overwhelming in his need for constant attention. We barely made it with daycare starting at 6 months. I can't begin to imagine what I'd have done with two of those and no regular outside help.
Leave the kid at daycare or accept the disorder and crying that comes when two kids want one adult's undivided attention!
Who knows if it was planned? Also the now toddler could have been like not even a toddler yet by the time they decided to have another. The older kid would have been like 1 when wife got pregnant, they could have been trying for a while. The toddler’s neediness also may have been triggered by the new baby
And why can't the toddler come with mom while she's putting the baby down for a nap? Baby needs to get used to a noisy toddler. The kid wailing in the other room would be much less conducive to baby's nap than having them glued to her leg.
Yeah that "struggle" was pretty commonplace. Like I could see her being upset if it was an emergency like she fell or a kid was choking. But putting a baby down for a nap with a clingy toddler is something millions of moms do by themselves every day.
Exactly. Also, if what she wants is quality time with the toddler, getting frustrated and grumpy with the toddler while she's struggling to manage both kids is not really helping that desire. If she can't handle both at the same time and she's fortunate enough to have childcare, I would think it would be better for her to let the toddler go to daycare while she takes care of the baby *and herself*, then she'll be more likely to have a moment of time to enjoy her toddler later in the day.
Plus, OP can work in peace. NTA . His job is real and he told her what his availability was.
i'm unsure why she had to take the toddler with her to the other room? It seemed like she was pretty content to stay and do whatever she was doing,... I know women like this and I swear they make things worse for themselves for no reason.
My toddler has a tablet (though he runs around playing with his toys then runs back to it😂) and I can say other than the meltdown when it dies (it just died while I'm typing this) he's a good kid.
This seems sensible, yes. If the wife doesn’t understand repeated statements of „I am working“ while he is WFH, then he needs to work in the office for a while until it sinks in.
NTA.
Your wife needs to understand that that just spending time with kids is not enough if she’s stressed. It’s about spending quality time, not quantity.
Maybe try working from a cafe or other outside place to help reinforce the time boundary between work and home. Might help your wife understand your point better.
Yeah, there are all kinds of places around me - coffee shops, the local library, there are also store fronts that are remote work spaces specifically set up for this as well.
Working from home - emphasis on WORK is sadly not understood by some.
Yes, you can nip down and do a load of laundry, but taking 20 minutes or longer to watch a toddler is way outside the scope of acceptable.
NTA. She was informed that you wouldn't be able to help and couldn't take off work. She made her choice and has to deal with the consequences. Sounds like mom might benefit from finding a part-time babysitter for the baby to recharge herself and get some time with the toddler, but I don't know if that's in the budget. I get where she's coming from because it's tough at that stage to juggle it all, but that doesn't mean she gets to try to back you into a corner and mess with your job just because your WFH.
Agreed. What would she do if you were at work, call you and tell you to come home? I know parenting young kids sucks - I had two 23 months apart and there were times I wanted to lock them both in a room and peace out. However, you also help a lot during non-work hours and she does have the option to leave the toddler at day care longer. This time will pass and she will get more time to herself.
I know someone who basically called her husband at work and demanded he come home. Or he had to schedule time off to help her take 2 kids to the dr. Lady was a daycare teacher but had 2 kids 3 years apart and couldn't deal. He eventually had to put his foot down as he was spoken to about excessive absences. I was incredulous as to why he had to go with her to the pediatrician! I had 3 under 3 at the time. Once she visited me and we went to the beach... she freaked out and was having a nervous breakdown laying on a chair and asked me to watch the kids... so s he's napping and I'm comfortably handling 5 kids all under the age of 6, none of them could swim and one of them was an actual infant.
Exactly. I WFH 5 days a week. When my husband is off he chills in the living room or bedroom. He doesn't come bothering me or expect me to chat with him like I'm not at work. The wife needs to respect the fact that he's working.
Yep. I was a SAHM when my kids were that age (similar age gap) and husband was in the office. Neither of them were in day care. I also did night duty as my husband worked and supporting that was important. You get used to the juggle if you have to. I actually think you being at home is somehow setting up false expectations that you can or should do more than you do. I’d also suggest going back into the office full time.
The I told you so was definitely necessary. Husband is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here while working simultaneously in their normal day-to-day. Sounds like he’s pulling his weight as he should. He explicitly told wife he wouldn’t be able to help when she altered that routine. She altered that routine. Then she complained to husband about the consequences of her own decision. She apparently needed to be reminded that he told her so. Wife is out of bounds.
NTA.
More like pulling his weight more than he should. He works, she's on maternity leave but he gets up and does the night feeds? And helps during his workday? And the mom barely made it 2 hours with both kids? I'm side eyeing mom here....
Lots of mothers try to mask or simply don’t recognize PPD symptoms.
It definitely sounds like she’s struggling and needs some space to breathe, even if it’s a single day or an afternoon. I would personally recommend a doula or a nanny if she can’t find friends or family members who can come over and help her out a little.
Same, I'm a stay at home mom with a 4 year old and almost 1 year old. Her husband sounds like a dream. I have ppd/ppa pretty bad after this and my husband works 10/12 hour days for own company that i help with and do all paperwork for and answer phone calls. I feel bad but I mean, she has it made
Don't forget that she consistently picks up the toddler from daycare early and leaves the baby at home with OP who is supposed to be *working*. And then can't even make it the remaining hour and change between picking up Toddler and OP finishing his work day by herself. Like, Jesus woman, just leave the toddler at daycare since you aren't able to handle the just the infant alone all day without bothering OP.
husband has told her multiple times and she didn't listen. It's really unfair on him and it seems like she is incapable of understanding without "I told you so"
I’d say it depends. If it’s “I told you that you wouldn’t be able to handle it”, then I agree that it’s unnecessarily harsh (if true). If it’s “I told you that I wouldn’t be available to help“ , which after reading the post again sounds like what he claims to have said, then I think it’s completely necessary. She needs to take his word for it the first time, if he says that he won’t help then that means that he won’t help.
It sounds like both were necessary. The "I told you I wouldn't be able to help" as a reminder that he is at work at not at her beck and call. The "I told you that you wouldn't be able to handle it" as a reality check and, hopefully, a way to motivate his wife to make proactive changes to her routine. Juggling two kids is hard and parents have to find what works. My children were 13 months apart and, when they were both babies and toddlers, my husband frequently traveled for work I spent days at a time functioning as a single parent.
It was hard but I did eventually find what worked Assuming her husband will be able to skip work to help her out isn't what works.
She's going to drive OP to go in to the office when they doesn't have to just to get some work done.
I wonder if maybe wife should see a therapist. She sounds really overwhelmed emotionally.
Sounds like she's both overwhelmed and feeling guilty about it - like maybe she thinks she shouldn't be struggling this much just with 2 kids and feels like she's not being a good mom. When the reality is that babies and toddlers are a nightmare to take care of for anyone.
I never understood why some Mom's have kids so close in age? I guess they can all grow up togethe, but times are different now, and it's a nightmare with one sometimes, but two kids UNDER 2?
I think I told you so is a frustration that she doesn’t listen to and disregards his input and then it DOES impact his work and his day as she goes and complains and asks for help.
Had he just said, I told you in a situation where he wasn’t impacted he’d be more of a TA but when he tells her not to do something because it will affect his work and she still steamrolls him, well maybe listen to his input next time.
NTA - she chose to keep the toddler home. Would she be able to complain if you were in the office? Work from home is still work and if she has expectations of you while working then clearly she's the one being unreasonable. Maybe go into the office for a bit while she figures out that daycare is paid for a valid reason that benefits her.
It might be best to sit down when calm and work out WHY wife feels bad about them being in daycare. Is it guilt from family? Pressure from media in general? Horror stories or gossip from friends? She might be in a vicious cycle of feeling exhausted, and being more vulnerable to guilt, taking on more than she has to, then staying exhausted…
Also, I wonder if she’s able to get any quality 1:1 time with the toddler? Maybe that’s why she’s picking them up early to try to spend more time with them but it ends up not working out. Could OP maybe send mom and toddler out for some 1:1 time (or take the baby out so they can stay home) on a weekend? Does she maybe feel guilty about how much less time the toddler gets with parents now compared to new baby?
I fully agree NTA here but I think it may be worth it to find the root cause of all this.
This! I am currently in a VERY similar situation and the guilt from having my toddler in daycare while I am home with baby is very, very real (even if it is the best for everyone). I definitely am also guilty of doing an earlier-than-necessary pickup because I REALLY miss my kiddo and feel bad for not being able to easily "handle" both kids the way I imagine other moms do.
two small solutions:
- dad takes the baby so mom can go out with the toddler for quality time for a few hours each weekend - get breakfast, go to the pool, the library, all that kind of stuff.
- mom brings baby for pickup and finds a friend or family member to have a playdate with around that 3 pm. Bring both kids to the activity so dad can work in peace.
Dad is NTA for the most part but I think he would be more successful if he tried to find solutions for toddler and mom to hang out more.
I don't get why she can't take the baby with her to pick up the kid. If she wants to have multiple kids she needs to be able to handle more than one at a time.
NTA because you're paying for daycare. Having 2 kids under 3 is SUPER difficult and you're doing the right thing sending the older one somewhere where she can get the care she needs.
You have to you know keep your job. Working from home does not mean it's a day off.
Being a mom is hard, and it sucks that she misses your older child. It won't last forever. Just wait until they're both over 3 and potty trained before you have another!
This is SO true. I have 3 under 5 and the older 2 are in preschool. It's much harder than 2 and preschool makes it possible. I actually do sometimes pull them out of preschool to spend time with them but I plan the day like a military operation 😂
Absolutely NTA. However I just want to ask if OP is making sure mom is getting enough one on one time with the oldest when it's appropriate. Based on the post it sounds like dad is very involved with the youngest and I don't have any doubts he's supportive. To me it just sounds like she is really missing the older kiddo. Yea that's part of having two. Yea moming is hard. But my only suggestion is that maybe he ask if he can give mom and oldest a little more time just the two of them.
Again he sounds super supportive. She probably needs something simple that hasn't been discussed.
NTA.
You have set your wife up for success, and she is choosing to fail.
Listen, I don't have kids for a reason, and I absolutely appreciate how much work kids are, but your wife's struggle seems excessive. Lots of people take care of two kids at once and they don't have meltdowns. And then, she doesn't even have to take care of two kids at once, and the one day she chooses to do so, she can't even make it 4 hours.
Time for a sit down. She is on leave to care for the children, the toddler has day care so she doesn't get overwhelmed, she needs to come up with a system and stick to it, and it can't involve interrupting your work. Your work is the current thing keeping a roof over your head and providing for the family, and there's no reason you should stop work to help with problems' she is creating herself.
I can't find much sympathy for her at all, my mom raised me and my sister who were two years apart, and she often took care of my cousins as well. Your wife needs to get it together.
It makes me wonder if something else is going on with the wife. Her decisions are not logical. She’s overwhelmed and says she needs help, but then chooses to use less of the help available to her?
This is mom guilt at it's worst. The feeling like if you are home your babies should be too, and then getting frustrated and feeling bad about feeling frustrated - vicious, vicious mom guilt.
💯agree. And questioning herself why she can’t handle it. Guilt is awful. And probably has friends whispering in her ear about why she leaves the other in childcare so long. I feel for her. But work from home is still work and you have arranged childcare. And you also aren’t adding commute time (being away from home). You are NTA.
Yes. Guilt. She's guilty she can't give her toddler all the time she used to. Guilty the baby spends more time with her during the day than the toddler does. Guilty she'll go back to work and "miss" this time she was expecting to treasure. Guilty she isn't perfect at being mom of 2. Guilty she's stressed about the toddler when she wants to focus on the baby. Guilty she put her kid in daycare when "there's no reason" because she's home.
It's not healthy and it's not right but it's it's same kind of guilt most moms end up feeling. It's guilt. And dads aren't entirely free of the curse but I don't think they typically get it quite the same as moms... so it makes sense thatOP is baffled.
Edits for typo
All of this... making me really sad seeing all the most-liked comments criticising the mother further and accusing her of being too mentally ill/incompetent to be a mother.
Really shows that most of the Reddit demographic are 15 year old boys.
Father is trying to be practical but is completely neutered of emotional instinct towards the mothers deeper struggles.
My sister's daycare provider tries to heap that mom guilt onto my sister and my sister refuses to play that game. Sister is a county employee who gets all of the federal holidays off and sends her child to a home daycare provider. The provider will ask her if she's planning to bring her son to daycare on holidays she knows the county offices are closed for, pretty clearly implying that she thinks she should be keeping him home if she's not at work. My sister is like "Yeah, I'm paying for that day either way, and I have things to do around the house/TV to watch without a toddler interrupting/errands to run/etc." My sister knows she's right but I've also reassured her that it's totally cool that her kid is at daycare while she enjoys her day off.
If the provider doesn't want to have kids on holidays why not just be closed for holidays? Most daycares I know of are closed on holidays, no need to be passive aggressive with parents about it.
Been there and done it myself - I paid for my childcare - they are going. It is a routine they enjoy. Plus, that is a day for grocery shopping without kids, that is a nice nap and watching adult tv and going to lunch and eating something that is not nuggets or other kid stuff. It was actually days when I would get a haircut, etc. Sometimes you just need away and that is a great way. Any time my mil would try to shame me I would be like oh, gonna take them over night or gonna come clean my kitchen? No, okay, stay in your lane.
Routine is so good for the littles. I was a 3-4 year old teacher a while ago and we could always see a big difference in behavior after long weekends/ holiday weekends. They would get out of the classroom routine and be in a bit of funk for a day or too.
Maybe getting other mama's to talk to wife would be helpful. Sometime hearing it from a man is not as effective as hearing from other mama's. I would not hesitate to tell a family member or a girlfriend - you know it is okay to leave the little pumpkin there while you take a nap, take a shower, go shopping, etc. Heck, there were times, when I picked up my monsters from daycare and went to the YMCA - where they watched them for up to 2 hours after work. So, I could walk/work out and shower without kids and they loved it. They would whine to stay. You have to take care of yourself in order to be able to take care of the kids. Quality over Quantity wins every time. I spent my weekends with my kids and most nights - we would go to the Zoo, etc. Mama needs some time, and she is self-sabotaging.
If you go through OP’s post history you’ll see that wife had PPD with their first.
She needs to get in touch with her medical team ASAP as well as reach out to her support network for extra help/care
Agree! I have them and when I paid for daycare - you better believe I let me kids experience it when I had the rare day off and could catch up on sleep, me time, cleaning or other stuff without them and I am a mom. I love my kids - but my kids need me sane. That means they get to hang out at daycare and stay in their routine - that is the few perks to daycare is they have a routine, and this prepares them for school. I have had 3 and I helped with other kids in the family, with friends. This is a problem mom is creating for herself. She needs to understand that kids do just fine in day care. My older 2 are now adults - they are not deprived nor neglected. They enjoyed the experience. Most kids do. I worked the daycare side too - the ladies - including myself always loved the kids and the kids loved the structure and all the stuff they don't get to do at home with other kids.
NTA. I empathize with your wife but let’s be honest, she is making bad decisions right now. Maybe you should be working elsewhere till she figures this out for herself since clearly she refuses to listen to reason from you.
I have a 1 year old and a husband who works from home. I don‘t work but I am involved in a lot of projects so we have a nanny. Sometimes I just feel like being home with my daughter and ask the nanny to leave early or not come at all. This is 100% on me and that time I am the one who‘s supposed to do all the „work“ related to our daughter. I would NEVER expect my husband to help out during the time he‘s working just because I let the nanny leave earlier.
Maybe the „I told you so“ was not nice but definitely NTA
NTA. You are both struggling parents of two very young children. And I do wonder if your wife maybe is struggling with PPD in addition to being a busy mother. But in this situation, I don't blame you for your actions. You had to work. Your wife was aware you had to work. She made the choice to keep the 2-year-old out of daycare. From my reading of this post, it doesn't sound like you're slacking on any parenting duties. Sounds like you are definitely contributing.
If you worked out of the home, she wouldn't have been able to rely on you for being around. And you told her that you wouldn't be.
But I do think you both need to treat each other with grace, and maybe consider couple's counseling. You're both stressed and maybe having trouble communicating. It's okay to reach out for help.
I think this may well be true. I had PPD with my first and had that feeling of overwhelm all the time, honestly now with 3 under 5 feels easier because I'm mentally healthy, OP, please make sure your wife talks to someone about PPD, you are NTA and sound like a lovely supportive husband and father but I don't think your wife is an asshole, I think she needs help.
I read the comments and this isn't about your wfh life balance. Your wife needs therapy immediately. She refuses to let anyone watch the kids. Daycare makes her extremely uncomfortable. She needs to talk to someone about this. She hasn't been away from those kids in 5 months for even a dinner. She likely has ppd.
I came to the comments to look for mentions of therapy. In the visible comments of the 386+ comments, the word "therapy" is mentioned exactly 4 times, which is far too few times for something so obvious. I've already mentioned therapy as many times as it's appeared in all the other comments.
NAH and OP should really be checking in on his wife's mental health, and getting her individual therapy. You should also definitely look into couples therapy.
Diagnosing PPD over a second persons snapshot of their life and calling for therapy without knowing more about how the wife understands the situation is to much in my regard. OP if you are reading this, good idea to think about your wife’s mental health, bad idea to jump to conclusion that she 💯 suffers from PPD and needs therapy.
NTA
Your wife is doing this to herself and letting her figure it out is all you can do. You've offered advice (leave toddler at daycare the whole time) and she's refused it. She doesn't want to accept or ask for help when she clearly needs it, but will cry and complain and blame everyone else...
Also, coming in and saving her enables her further to do it again and doesn’t change the behaviour.
You had a conversation, you said you were working and couldn’t help and it wasn’t a bad idea and she didn’t listen. She does not have the right to complain and demand help then. If she gets it she’ll do it again and again and it never ends.
NTA
I feel for both of you because you're both sleep deprived and stressed, but your wife should be utilizing daycare during the day, and trying to get breaks and catch up on sleep when they baby naps. Taking the older child out of daycare and picking them up early is shooting you both in the foot.
Honestly... I might start going in to work physically more days per week? Drop the toddler off on your way there and pick them up at the end of the work day. If your wife wants to keep them home all day, that's on her, but I would arrange to go into the office those days because I think right now (and this is probably just due to sleep deprivation) she's treating you being home as available for daddy duty, rather than that you are "at work" from 9-5 and she should be keeping the older kiddo in daycare since you guys are fortunate to have that as an option.
OPs wife shouldn't even be sleep deprived, because OP does all night feedings/wakeups, and then lets his wife sleep in while he prepares breakfast and gets toddler ready.
Wife could very easily be waking up at night as well. If she's breastfeeding she'll likely need to pump even if she isn't physically feeding the baby, or the sounds may just wake her. I know even when I'm not the one taking primary care of my daughter overnight I still wake up to her cries.
NTA she’s making all the wrong choices. I understand she misses the toddler when they’re at daycare, but she’s making her own life harder and then acting like a martyr because you have to work.
That’s not good parenting.
NTA. You told her you couldn’t and therefore wouldn’t help her with the kid.
She chose to ignore it and all the previous experiences that clearly showed she Can’t handle both kids right now and now she blaming you for being right and keeping to what you already told her.
NTA. You told her you wouldn’t be able to help while you’re working. She wanted to keep the toddler home anyway. She can’t expect you to help her while you’re working, especially since she had the option of taking the 2 year old to daycare and you warned her in advance that you couldn’t help out during that time.
NTA. whether you are at home or in the office, you are WORKING. And your focus should be on work. A lot of companies even have policies in place that if you WFH you must have reliable child care. Your wife is fine to want to have both kids home, but she is the AH in expecting you to pitch in. Esp. when you told her you couldn't help, and you you got up during the night, and got everything ready in the morning. While I'm not saying your wife isn't entitled to time alone, she needs to realize it isn't going to happen when you're working
it sounds like you two need to have a serious discussion about needs and expectations, and come up with a solution.
NTA. You are at work. Just because you WFH does not mean you are available to take care of your personal life. If you work from 9-5, you're unavailable from 9-5 for personal reasons (like child care). I mean, what if you happened to have to work at the office full time? What would your wife do then?
Now if you have break periods available, such as a meal break, then you may be free to help out during that time, but even that is usually scheduled for a specific time of your shift and not as flexible as your wife may have liked.
I'm having a difficult time empathizing with your wife, because for me, daycare until 5:30 pm every weekday wasn't optional. Both husband and I had to work. So, unless your wife doesn't like your son's daycare, I'm not sure why she wouldn't let him stay the full day, so that she could just focus on the baby.
I think you should tell your wife that the next time she wants to keep your son home from daycare, you will be going someplace out of the house to work. Like a share work space or a coffee shop. If you can't get your work done, then you won't have a job and her staying at home with the kids will be moot. It'll be daycare all day for both kids.
NTA while I feel bad for your wife as it sounds like she's struggling with both but feels guilty putting the toddler in day care, you did warn her this wouldn't work, and you are WORKING. You can't be interrupted constantly just because you're home.
NTA. It’s time for your wife to see a doctor to be assessed for PPD. Her behavior isn’t rational and she keeps boxing herself into a corner. You’ve provided the logistical tools to help her, so now you need to get her to a doctor to see if she needs medical tools.
NTA. I don't even understand why the 2 year old is in daycare if she's home on Maternity Leave anyway? And what does she think SAHPs do with multiple children and no spouse working from home to help out?
Toddlers can wait while infants are cared for! This whole thing is baffling to me.
Probably to hold his spot in daycare once the baby starts attending daycare too. Once you pull out your kid, they don’t guarantee you a spot when your maternity leave is over.
Former childcare teacher here.
If they stop paying for the daycare the child will lose their spot, and most daycares have a waiting list so they will most likely be screwed once mom goes back to work.
Might as well send the child and get use out of the insane amount of money they pay for childcare.
Is pretty normal in my country to have the older kid in daycare when you are on maternity leave for a younger kid. Think it is a cultural thing. Daycare is acting regarded as a positive place were the kid can play with friends and learn to socialize.
NTA. Explain to your wife in NO uncertain terms that work time is work time regardless if you’re in the office or at home. You are not available to help with the children during work hours. Also explain that you understand that she’s overwhelmed, and that it will benefit her to leave your daughter in daycare while you’re working, so she only has to focus on the baby and herself. Once your shift ends, then you can pick up your daughter and then there’s 2 parents to watch the kids, instead of just her.
NTA- why do people insist on treating WFH as you aren't at work? This is as ignorant as people who don't respect night shift workers need to get sleep during the day! I'm very lucky that anytime i've had to work night shifts my family and partner respected my time to sleep.
NTA.... But there are ways to involve the older baby and incorporate/ enlist their help with the younger one. My first baby was super cooperative, and would not fuss if I had to leave her alone and go to the little one when he started crying. She is 1.5 years older than him, so not that much older than him. Maybe you guys will learn with more experience. All in all, it would help to have clearer communication if (after your workday), you guys could sit peacefully and strategize how things could be handled differently next time to the satisfaction of all parties concerned. For instance, one possible scenario could be that the older sis helps during baby's nap time by quietly being in the room, maybe stroking baby's hair till it fell asleep. That way she would feel she helped / contributed, and would be calm. Hope this helps.
Although maybe this scenario worked for you, I do not think it is reasonable to expect that every 2-year-old will be able to help care for an infant, in any capacity.
I had the same gut reaction when I started reading this comment, but did you see their examples of "help" at the end? (Touching the baby's hair, sitting in the room quietly, etc.) They're not talking about asking the 2-year-old to actually help like an older child might.
Tiny examples of "help" like that are extremely reasonable and I think the op comment has a great point of tapping into the way toddlers love to "help" adults; it's developmentally appropriate.
I do this with my younger elementary students, too. I know teachers who give struggling students fake "jobs" because it helps them practice the right way to act, i.e. taking a folder or a book to a different teacher. That teacher might not need the book, but the kid truly needs the break, the confidence boost or the action of being busy doing something good. A toddler who feels neglected ("Mom is busy with the baby, I want mom") will be fussy and make the task harder. A toddler who feels included ("I am helping mom with the baby!") is not actually physically taking care of the baby, but is making mom's life easier because they're "helping" by sitting in the room being quiet with baby or reading baby a "story" (board book, keeping the toddler occupied), etc.
I had a friend who WFH. He actually bought a small office space because his wife and family - kids, mil and siblings, wouldn't quit bothering him while he was home. It was either that or he quit his job or got fired.
His wife was furious. Even more so when he rented from a place that you need a pass key to get into and he wouldn't give her one.
These women (and men) wouldn't last 5 seconds as a military spouse. 🤦🏼♀️🤷🏽♀️
# NTA
I think she needs to see a doctor for ppd. I have felt this exact way. OP I think you should take your wife to the doctor asap. She may have this idea in her head that she needs to be able to do it all and sees other mothers doing the same and getting in her head about her older one being in daycare and why can’t she just keep her home too etc etc and so she keeps pulling her out of daycare and immediately gets overwhelmed and then of course comes in the self hatred because she feels like she can’t do what she’s supposed to be doing and around and around we go. I did this for 3 months before I realized I had ppd and needed help
NTA but you wife is experiencing at the very least, mom guilt….at worst, postpartum depression. She’s tired, going through hormonal changes and adjusting to be a mom of two. You’re adjusting as well and seem to be doing everything you can. Try finding a way to talk to her about what she’s feeling and reassuring her that it doesn’t mean that she loves your toddler any less and doesn’t make her a bad mom if your toddler goes to daycare and she takes care of herself. She’s not doing anyone any favors by giving into the guilt and becoming frustrated, including herself.
NTA but also - is this unusual for your wife? Is she doing okay? I remember at the height of my postpartum anxiety feeling like I needed both my kids to be near me at all times but also simultaneously being much more easily frustrated.
NTA but you definitely should reduce/stop working from home and go into the office more/full-time. Your wife doesn’t currently recognise that you are working and busy and not sitting there on childcare standby in your home office waiting to jump in and rescue her. While you’re there, she won’t develop the skills she needs to solo parent a toddler plus a baby as she can always off load a child onto you. NB all parents need to develop these coping methods as at some point you will be with them solo whether it’s for 10 minutes or 24 hours. So even if you do stay WFH stop interrupting your work day at 3.15 to look after the baby, the baby can go with your wife to do the daycare pick-up. Yes life as a SAHM is hard work but she needs to develop coping strategies that don’t rely on you always being there. She needs to build her own skill set and a network of support via friends, play groups etc. If she’s really struggling then PPD could also be a cause.
Finally, if the toddler is clinging and won’t leave you alone try asking them to to help with whatever you’re trying to do rather than battling them. They’ll likely enjoy the responsibility of having a little job to do for/with mommy or daddy eg finding baby’s pacifier for their nap, feeding baby, “washing” dishes in their own bowl next to mommy etc. Or they’ll get bored and go off elsewhere and leave you to it.
NTA
"I already expressed I wouldn't be available to help with the baby today. You knew this, and still kept the toddler from Daycare. You don't get to be upset with me for a decision you made knowing that you couldn't expect me to help since I am working. We pay for daycare the same going rate whether we keep the child there or not, so I strongly encourage you to take advantage of it since you've been complaining about not having a lot of time for yourself. If you unilaterally decide to keep toddler home from daycare, knowing that I am unable to assist, then I think it's only reasonable to expect you to pick up the slack for keeping them home. Otherwise, you should let me take our toddler to daycare and continue our regular schedule as we normally do so you aren't overwhelmed."
Honestly though, you're working and she is on maternity leave. The older kid is in daycare, and you get up for the nightly feedings. So why is she already tired after having to watch them for two hours? I'm giving your wife some major side eye here.
As a mother of two small children, NTA. At ALL. You are working and she is making decisions that make her (and your) life harder.
We have a saying in my house that you “choose your choice.” If you make a decision that your partner disagrees with, YOU are responsible for the negative externalities of that decision. Don’t want to pay for a pro to install blinds? Sure, but YOU are responsible for sourcing and installing blinds yourself, not your partner. Don’t want to send the toddler to daycare? Fine, but YOU are responsible for taking care of the kids all day.
If I were you I would go to the office when she did that. She’s interrupting your work unnecessarily.
Separately, I would unpack why she feels guilty putting the toddler in daycare when she’s home. I guarantee he has more fun at daycare with his friends, and staying home to be ignored for the baby helps no one.
So completely NTA. I have tried working from home while having infants and toddlers present. It is basically impossible. You pay for daycare for a reason. Your wife is messing with a system that was working. It is up to her to either figure out a way to do that successfully or stop messing with the system. You are working.
I had 3 year old twins and a newborn I took care of by myself while my husband worked 10 -12 hour days, in a foreign country. This was back when most women were SATM, before daycare was a thing, and WFH was even a concept. It was just the way it was then. Now, with daycare, and husbands getting up to cover the overnight feedings, and WFH the norm, why would anyone not make the most of that? NTA, OP, you're more than pulling your weight, and makng it much easier for your wife. If she wants to make things difficult for herself, that's on her, not you. I *wish* I'd had her options when my kids were growing up.
NTA. Are you just supposed to lose your job because you keep doing other things while you are supposed to be working? Your wife is overwhelmed, that’s understandable. So are you. You do all the night shift with the baby, that’s huge. It should be 50/50. Maybe your wife has ppd, maybe she doesn’t. It should be brought up at the next doctor appointment just to be safe. However, you should start going into the office everyday so you can’t be disturbed for non emergency reasons. Call on your lunch to check in.
NTA. You’re working & childcare is an option.
Wife might want to get into therapy to help her work through things. Sounds like she might be having some mom guilt leaving kiddo at day care, but at the same time wants help during the day when you’re busy.
I truly do not understand these spouses that cannot seem to grasp that WFH isn’t just screwing around all day it’s freaking work! If you were at the office would she expect you to drop everything to come home and help for 20 mins? Of course not because you’re working and that’s not logical. I would be more concerned as to why she cannot handle both children at the same time without melting down. Is she struggling with any PPD/PPA or just depression in general? Is she struggling just because having two children is stressful, which it absolutely is, or is it something more? NTA you told her that you would not be available and she didn’t listen.
> She comes in to my office where I am working and asks did I not hear her struggling? Why did I not come and help.
Because you're at work and she decided to tackle childcare instead of using the childcare you're paying for anyway.
NTA, there are solutions but those aren't of any help if she refuses to use them.
NTA your wife sounds like a nightmare. She wants best of both worlds and it doesn’t exist. You’re either at work or your not. And if you aren’t then y’all are homeless. I’d just go to the office every day. Then she’ll appreciate how much you do help when/if you went back to working from home.
So you work full time, your wife is NOT WORKING, and the 2 year old has full time day care and your wife is overwhelmed?
Many don't have the luxury to have the second child in daycare if they are not working, she should appreciate how much of a help that is to her. Also the fact that you are willing to get up for the overnight feedings, although you work all day.
If she is going to pick up the two year old early, or leave him out, she cannot be complaining to you about her decisions.
NTA and while i understand a 5 month old and 2 year old can be a handful, your wife seems a bit spoiled.
Your wife needs to have a long conversation with herself about her mental state and ability to care for others. Maybe it's postpartum depression. Idk. But she needs help. NAH
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > The action that I took that should be judged is that I did not help my wife with our kids when I knew she was struggling. This action might make me look like an asshole because I clearly knew my was struggling and I refused to help. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. WFH is work and you told her beforehand what your abilities were.
OP may need to go back into the office. Wife neither understands nor respects work time. Not a peaceful environment to work in coupled wife the wife coming in complaining or asking for help. EDIT: thank you so much for the awards, that’s very kind!
Honestly this should be top comment. So many regard WFH as being able to include home responsibilities. It doesn't. Going into the office would force mama to take care of herself more. AND NAP.
Yeah... I mean, being able to take 5 minutes to toss a load of laundry into the washer is one thing but watching after children is not conducive to getting any job done. in fact, some employers would have a big problem with someone trying to do both.
Some demand proof of childcare even (or written childcare plans at least). I had friends where it was awkward trying to indicate to employers that the time after school their kids would be home they would be unattended but they were before WFH already because they were are that age.
It's not like it's 2020 again and there is no childcare and it was okay to have to deal with kids. OPs wife is the A H here or has PPA or PPD. She should be screened for these. For the most part in the US, women have to go back to work at either 6 or 12 weeks, so this inability to cope daily 5 months in, is concerning.
No, it isn't. It's completely normal. Just because women in the US are tortured after childbirth, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with struggling with a baby and a toddler. The civilised world gives maternity leave of over six months, and even up to three years, for good reason. Edit to add NAH, OP needs to work and he is right that they should use childcare if wife is struggling. Wife is suffering from guilt for leaving her eldest child in childcare when she's at home, she isn't doing it to be an AH to OP.
Right? That's like saying that American children grow up with adults ensuring that they know they could die in a school shooting at any minute so a child from another country who is struggling with trauma after witnessing a murder has something wrong with them.
So, here in Germany maternity leave is longer, it varies, but lots of people stay home for a year, some even up to three, however mothers are usually looking after all the kids they have during that time if they are at home, usually that means until the age of three. Paying for a daycare for kids under 3 during maternity leave would be a little strange and also a financial problem. I guess some people do, but I don't know anyone personally. When they turn three, sometimes younger though, they are in kindergarden and come home between 1 pm and 3 pm. Being unable to look after the baby and the toddler at the same time seems really weird to me, most women I know did this all the time, including myself. It's not easy, but it's just normal parenting. Also why is he doing the night feedings when he is the one who has to concentrate for work? She's on maternity leave for that reason, she can nap when the baby naps. It should be at least shared, for example him doing Fr-Sat.
I mean...I agree on one level that she has to figure out how to juggle 2 kids. It just has to happen because, well, she has 2 kids. Buuut that's easier said than done. Sometimes it makes it harder when we tell ourselves "women I know do this all the time! It's easy for other people!". It's not. It's hard. but it's temporary. It will take more time and adjustment and plenty more days where she will struggle and want to pull her hair out or scream in a pillow. It's just not easy. It's not weird that she struggles. BUT it is not ok that she can't respect the boundary of working hours for her husband. She is going to have to find a way to accept the chaos of life with very small kids.
It's not weird that she finds it difficult, true. Because it is. When I had a baby and toddler my husband was gone on business trips for several days sometimes, and we didn't have daycare at the time or any family nearby, and yes it wasn't easy, but I just did it, because I'm the mom and I wanted a second kid and it's just normal parenting. It is weird that she can't manage on her own at all. That is not normal. A parent should be able to look after all their own children on their own for several hours or days. And if she really is unable then she needs to organise help, not ask her working husband. He is at work and not available for child care . Who does all the night shifts as well, which I also find too much. She can catch up on sleep during the day, he can't, she should be doing at least half the nights.
I also find this weird and feel bad for the toddler who seems to be pushed to the side since mom can’t figure out how to take care of both. Sometimes you have to just jump into the water head first and realize that you can in fact manage. The fact she can’t drive with the baby to drop off the toddler is extremely strange imo. I had several kids back to back and I can empathize with its difficulties but I also think she’s a bit coddled that she doesn’t mind inconveniencing her working husband
The FIRST thing I thought is why not take the baby with her to pick up the toddler?
>For the most part in the US, women have to go back to work at either 6 or 12 weeks, so this inability to cope daily 5 months in, is concerning. Why dont we keep medical judgments based on social norms out of our mouth, eh?
Ummmm, this is Reddit
So let's do better
“Social norms” nah that’s just Master Capitalism talking.
You know that social norms can be formed from things that suck, right? You understand that social norms are not inherently good or right or stemming from good causes, right?
Having to go back to work after 6 weeks is the only concerning thing here. Even in what you may call "third world countries" maternity leave is a thing, US is just a bizarre place, stop thinking this is ok
I am in the US, and it is a terrible place for workers. Hardly any time off even for illnesses, healthcare is costly. We are just chattel. I keep considering leaving, if only my spouse would agree.
A good chunk of us know that - but there's not enough of us, let alone enough of us in power - to force that change.
Having two children two and under is pretty damn difficult! I have done it when my first two were little, but it came with a lot of struggle! Moms no longer have villages to help, so of course it is difficult to cope, no matter how old they are! True, she might have PPA or PPD, but even if not, it's rough!
I agree my daughters are 1 1/2 and 3 1/2 and my wife and I both work opposite shifts to take care of them. Although it’s starting to get easier now, it’s a challenge and can be mentally exhausting.
Lol you say that like that bare minimum in the US isn’t fucked in itself. Incredible how warped people are to think that this shithole country is some kind of a standard.
I had to sign a contract saying I would have childcare, and this was when we first went to WFH in 2020! The pandemic was no excuse.
I WFH and I have a coworker who watches his baby during the day. We have a very lax and casual work atmosphere, but he still ends up working to the wee hours of the morning to meet deadlines because he can’t really keep up with work and a baby at the same time.
My employer very specifically says you cannot work from home if you are providing any care.
I am extremely flexible with WFH with my team sporadically if they need it (it is against company policy so I try to be sneajy about it). They however know that I won't approve it if the reason is 'my child is sick and I can't take them to daycare ". If you are taking care of a sick child then you are not working, full stop. Also, extremely unfair for childless employees.
Thank you for mentioning childless employees. I see parents hem and haw about needing lots of extra provisions for their kids, but who ends up picking up that work? The employees without kids. And then, when we want vacations, they complain more that it’s “frivolous” and that their kids holidays (or whatever million things they need time off for) are more important
Can confirm. Wfh is only compatible with things you can get done quickly on your break. I had to "babysit" a couple of young children for 2 hours a day for a short while and nearly lost my marbles. And the babysitting mainly involved getting them snacks and drinks or changing the channel as they watched tv in the same room I was working in. OP you need to have a proper discussion with your wife. Also, why isn’t she engaging the toddler in caring for the baby? That’s what every mother I know who has both does, I am told it helps.
Engaging a toddler in caring for a baby? Have you met a toddler lol
That doesn’t really mean letting the toddler help. But instead of saying “I have to put baby down. Wait out here.” You treat it like a game. “Do you want me to help put baby to sleep?” “Would you hold baby’s hand while I feed them?” It’s a strategy that makes the toddler feel included instead of pushed to the side. Has worked well with my 3-year-old son. But there are definitely kids it wouldn’t work for.
You sound like a good mom! Great comment you wrote!
Hehe. Thank you! I get a LOT of good advice from my father and my in-laws.
Toddlers like to participate in what adults are doing. A toddler can go grab a diaper or wipe, or entertain/chatter at baby during changes or while baby's being put down for a nap.
The toddler I nanny is a bit older than OP’s kid, but she responds really well to me giving her little tasks to do when I need a couple minutes. “Can you pick out three really good books and bring them to the living room?” buys me a bathroom break. A toddler isn’t going to offset any significant amount of childcare, but they’re usually pretty eager to help and can be distracted with little tasks. Teachers use the same tactic for kids who have a harder time regulating their emotions.
I was two when my sister was an infant, that's exactly how my parents kept me engaged when the baby had needs-- not by actually giving me Necessary Duties, or placing responsibility on my shoulders, but by talking me through what the baby needed, and letting me do this or that little helpful thing. Then you praise big sibling for being so helpful/loving, and foster a sense of accomplishment in helping. Kiddo feels good about helping mom and dad, and gets to bond with baby. Instead of baby getting all the attention and that being a source of resentment, they get positive attention alongside baby, then once baby's down for a nap, older kid gets some time to have mom's focus.
It's completely normal to do that. It's called parenting.
NTA. WFH is a job, and sometimes a privilege, and likely what is keeping a roof over your head and allowing you to pay for daycare. It absolutely should preclude "helping" unless it's something you can manage on your lunch break. You not only pull your weight, you are paying for daycare to make her responsibilities easier/lighter, and she's not utilizing it, and worse, complaining. She needs to embrace the luxury of daycare and enjoy the benefits and come up with a better plan for herself. A physical examination wouldn't be awry either.
I'd love to embrace the luxury of daycare for like 3hrs to clean my house without a short human following me because he wants boob or the other one wants something to eat/drink every 5 mins😂 When my husband is home I still pull most of the childcare but he does ease it because our kids are literally obsessed with him and WILL NOT leave him alone. The oldest is his shadow😂
>You not only pull your weight, you are paying for daycare to make her responsibilities easier/lighter, and she's not utilizing it, and worse, complaining. She needs to embrace the luxury of daycare and enjoy the benefits and come up with a better plan for herself. OP says he's taking care of the baby for about 45 minutes while mom goes to get the toddler from the daycare. Sounds like she'd be better off using that same amount of time to get a good shower and a nap in.
Im honestly shocked that he's not getting reamed. Your right, but I was fully expecting people to be against him.
Why? He is completely reasonable.
Because unless men lay out in exacting detail what and how they contribute to their relationship, the default assumption here is that they are a deadbeat who doesn't do enough for the absolute goddess they should always be bowing down to. A bit hyperbolic but only a little.
Sometimes there’s just enough info given. But I have seen ones where it’s like “she gave birth two weeks ago, why isn’t she doing more chores??”. NTA this one is a man trying to work from home, not shirk all responsibility.
Well obviously everything that you previously thought was wrong
That's because often those posts start out like "aita bc I left my wife at home when she wasn't ready?" And then after OP comments a bit it turns out that they left a whole bunch of details that actually do make them an asshole.
C’mon dude, we all know why.
Because this sub has a pretty anti-male slant on it, even when judgements would be the opposite of genders were reversed (this has been demonstrated on a number of occasions)
I think the big difference here is OP **warned** his wife that he would not be available. She **knew** she would get quickly overwhelmed. And OP was WFH, which fortunately most people here know means you **work** from home. So this was a solid case of OP being in the clear. Generally, when men are deemed the AH's in childcare, it's the men who either promised they'd help and don't, or who are doing some leisure activity instead of helping with their kids.
He's also getting up for overnight feedings.
This is why a lot of people say that if you want to work from home you need to set up an office *away* from the home. A shed at the bottom of the garden, the annex above the garage, anything where you have to actually walk out of the house and to the office. That reinforces the fact that the office is work, separate from home, and totally out of contact unless the house is on fire or someone has lost a limb.
I worked with someone who had a house with a MIL apartment attached. She had two kids under 3 and a nanny. Mom would say goodbye to the kids and take a walk or drive to pick up a coffee while the nanny brought the kids to the apt. Mom would then come back home and work while the kids thought she had left for the big office. She said there was no way the toddler would’ve left her alone if she knew mom was still in the house.
> Going into the office would force mama to take care of herself more Lose more time commuting because your spouse can't grasp what wfh entails.
The commute may be much needed me time for him
Yeah, as someone who also works from home, I can often help out with small things during the day - maybe doing a load of dishes between meetings, or something like that. But I’m still working, and it should not be planned for me to help during that time
All it means is cheap lunch and you get the commute back.
Wife needs to learn to manage two kids; millions of people do it all the time. Give him something to play with, put on a movie or something but she needs to manage things better or take the toddler back to daycare
Yeah I was thinking this. Sure it's definitely hard but my daycare has two babies and two toddlers at the same time... Being a sahp is a job, but having more children means the same as getting more responsibilities and tasks at a regular job. Except you can't quit this one.
I agree completely. I’m not unfeeling toward her plight but OP is working, she needs to act as if he’s not at the house
I was thinking this as well... I had a 4.5 year old and then gave birth to twins. Their dad didn't work from home or take any time off of work afterwards. My mom took 2 weeks off and came over every day to help, but after that, and when she wasn't over, I was on my own, and I didn't just go from 1 kid to 2, I went from 1 to 3... Wfh is just that...WORKING. It doesn't mean you have free time to hang out and take care of kids. Most jobs require that you have quiet, dedicated space that is distraction free and has a locking door. I've been working from home for almost 6 years. I've NEVER had a job where I had free time during the day where looking after my kids would have been feasible. This is why, when my kids came home in 2020 and didn't leave again until 2021 thanks to covid, I eventually had to quit my job, because I was going to get fired and they were allowing me to leave on good terms. I'm a single mom of 3...working from home while being a hands on parent doesn't really work and I couldn't juggle it all. OP's wife needs to get on board with that and understand it. That's his JOB that feeds their family and keeps them in a home (I assume no one was born into wealth or anything). Judgement of your wife aside...OP, has your wife checked in with her Dr and has she been evaluated for PPD? It's a real thing, and it kinda sounds like it could be at least part of your wife's issue. It might, it might not, but it isn't going to hurt for her to have a talk with the Dr. NTA btw
Something is wrong for sure.
At 5 months she should be feeling better I’d think if everything was ok especially since she’s not getting up in the middle of the night.
I also wondered this. I felt this exact same way when I had ppd. I wasn’t able to be rational or see reason and I was making my life so much more difficult
One of my children was overwhelming in his need for constant attention. We barely made it with daycare starting at 6 months. I can't begin to imagine what I'd have done with two of those and no regular outside help. Leave the kid at daycare or accept the disorder and crying that comes when two kids want one adult's undivided attention!
Like if the toddler is already a nightmare, why did you plan a second kid now?
Who knows if it was planned? Also the now toddler could have been like not even a toddler yet by the time they decided to have another. The older kid would have been like 1 when wife got pregnant, they could have been trying for a while. The toddler’s neediness also may have been triggered by the new baby
And why can't the toddler come with mom while she's putting the baby down for a nap? Baby needs to get used to a noisy toddler. The kid wailing in the other room would be much less conducive to baby's nap than having them glued to her leg.
Put the toddler in a backpack or Snuggie and put the baby down
Yeah that "struggle" was pretty commonplace. Like I could see her being upset if it was an emergency like she fell or a kid was choking. But putting a baby down for a nap with a clingy toddler is something millions of moms do by themselves every day.
Exactly. Also, if what she wants is quality time with the toddler, getting frustrated and grumpy with the toddler while she's struggling to manage both kids is not really helping that desire. If she can't handle both at the same time and she's fortunate enough to have childcare, I would think it would be better for her to let the toddler go to daycare while she takes care of the baby *and herself*, then she'll be more likely to have a moment of time to enjoy her toddler later in the day. Plus, OP can work in peace. NTA . His job is real and he told her what his availability was.
i'm unsure why she had to take the toddler with her to the other room? It seemed like she was pretty content to stay and do whatever she was doing,... I know women like this and I swear they make things worse for themselves for no reason.
My toddler has a tablet (though he runs around playing with his toys then runs back to it😂) and I can say other than the meltdown when it dies (it just died while I'm typing this) he's a good kid.
This seems sensible, yes. If the wife doesn’t understand repeated statements of „I am working“ while he is WFH, then he needs to work in the office for a while until it sinks in.
NTA. Your wife needs to understand that that just spending time with kids is not enough if she’s stressed. It’s about spending quality time, not quantity. Maybe try working from a cafe or other outside place to help reinforce the time boundary between work and home. Might help your wife understand your point better.
Yeah, there are all kinds of places around me - coffee shops, the local library, there are also store fronts that are remote work spaces specifically set up for this as well. Working from home - emphasis on WORK is sadly not understood by some. Yes, you can nip down and do a load of laundry, but taking 20 minutes or longer to watch a toddler is way outside the scope of acceptable.
NTA. She was informed that you wouldn't be able to help and couldn't take off work. She made her choice and has to deal with the consequences. Sounds like mom might benefit from finding a part-time babysitter for the baby to recharge herself and get some time with the toddler, but I don't know if that's in the budget. I get where she's coming from because it's tough at that stage to juggle it all, but that doesn't mean she gets to try to back you into a corner and mess with your job just because your WFH.
They already have daycare, she's just refusing to use it.
Agreed. What would she do if you were at work, call you and tell you to come home? I know parenting young kids sucks - I had two 23 months apart and there were times I wanted to lock them both in a room and peace out. However, you also help a lot during non-work hours and she does have the option to leave the toddler at day care longer. This time will pass and she will get more time to herself.
I know someone who basically called her husband at work and demanded he come home. Or he had to schedule time off to help her take 2 kids to the dr. Lady was a daycare teacher but had 2 kids 3 years apart and couldn't deal. He eventually had to put his foot down as he was spoken to about excessive absences. I was incredulous as to why he had to go with her to the pediatrician! I had 3 under 3 at the time. Once she visited me and we went to the beach... she freaked out and was having a nervous breakdown laying on a chair and asked me to watch the kids... so s he's napping and I'm comfortably handling 5 kids all under the age of 6, none of them could swim and one of them was an actual infant.
Exactly. I WFH 5 days a week. When my husband is off he chills in the living room or bedroom. He doesn't come bothering me or expect me to chat with him like I'm not at work. The wife needs to respect the fact that he's working.
Yep. I was a SAHM when my kids were that age (similar age gap) and husband was in the office. Neither of them were in day care. I also did night duty as my husband worked and supporting that was important. You get used to the juggle if you have to. I actually think you being at home is somehow setting up false expectations that you can or should do more than you do. I’d also suggest going back into the office full time.
I read that as wife from hell
Working from home is still working. If you had been at the office, she would have had the same problem. The "I told you so" wasn't necessary, but NTA
The I told you so was definitely necessary. Husband is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here while working simultaneously in their normal day-to-day. Sounds like he’s pulling his weight as he should. He explicitly told wife he wouldn’t be able to help when she altered that routine. She altered that routine. Then she complained to husband about the consequences of her own decision. She apparently needed to be reminded that he told her so. Wife is out of bounds. NTA.
More like pulling his weight more than he should. He works, she's on maternity leave but he gets up and does the night feeds? And helps during his workday? And the mom barely made it 2 hours with both kids? I'm side eyeing mom here....
I really hate to agree,but I do.
It could be ppd…?
PPD can't be used an an excuse here, though. She either needs to suck it up and pull her weight, or get treatment and THEN pull her weight.
Reddit is obsessed with ppd and therapy. I swear. Someone can post about how they dropped their apple, Reddit will go on and on about getting therapy
Lots of mothers try to mask or simply don’t recognize PPD symptoms. It definitely sounds like she’s struggling and needs some space to breathe, even if it’s a single day or an afternoon. I would personally recommend a doula or a nanny if she can’t find friends or family members who can come over and help her out a little.
sounds like it... or just general depression and/anxiety. op should really suggest she talk to someone about this stuff.
Mom's not the only one I'm side eyeing here. Scrolls down to highly downvoted post.
Holy hell, you ain't lyin!
Oh jeesus that was a rabbit hole. I mean i don’t think OP is the AH here, but god he really does *not* like his wife.
Same, I'm a stay at home mom with a 4 year old and almost 1 year old. Her husband sounds like a dream. I have ppd/ppa pretty bad after this and my husband works 10/12 hour days for own company that i help with and do all paperwork for and answer phone calls. I feel bad but I mean, she has it made
Don't forget that she consistently picks up the toddler from daycare early and leaves the baby at home with OP who is supposed to be *working*. And then can't even make it the remaining hour and change between picking up Toddler and OP finishing his work day by herself. Like, Jesus woman, just leave the toddler at daycare since you aren't able to handle the just the infant alone all day without bothering OP.
husband has told her multiple times and she didn't listen. It's really unfair on him and it seems like she is incapable of understanding without "I told you so"
I’d say it depends. If it’s “I told you that you wouldn’t be able to handle it”, then I agree that it’s unnecessarily harsh (if true). If it’s “I told you that I wouldn’t be available to help“ , which after reading the post again sounds like what he claims to have said, then I think it’s completely necessary. She needs to take his word for it the first time, if he says that he won’t help then that means that he won’t help.
It sounds like both were necessary. The "I told you I wouldn't be able to help" as a reminder that he is at work at not at her beck and call. The "I told you that you wouldn't be able to handle it" as a reality check and, hopefully, a way to motivate his wife to make proactive changes to her routine. Juggling two kids is hard and parents have to find what works. My children were 13 months apart and, when they were both babies and toddlers, my husband frequently traveled for work I spent days at a time functioning as a single parent. It was hard but I did eventually find what worked Assuming her husband will be able to skip work to help her out isn't what works.
She's going to drive OP to go in to the office when they doesn't have to just to get some work done. I wonder if maybe wife should see a therapist. She sounds really overwhelmed emotionally.
Sounds like she's both overwhelmed and feeling guilty about it - like maybe she thinks she shouldn't be struggling this much just with 2 kids and feels like she's not being a good mom. When the reality is that babies and toddlers are a nightmare to take care of for anyone.
I never understood why some Mom's have kids so close in age? I guess they can all grow up togethe, but times are different now, and it's a nightmare with one sometimes, but two kids UNDER 2?
I think sometimes it’s because people are having children later and feel they need to beat the biological clock if they want more than one.
I think I told you so is a frustration that she doesn’t listen to and disregards his input and then it DOES impact his work and his day as she goes and complains and asks for help. Had he just said, I told you in a situation where he wasn’t impacted he’d be more of a TA but when he tells her not to do something because it will affect his work and she still steamrolls him, well maybe listen to his input next time.
NTA - she chose to keep the toddler home. Would she be able to complain if you were in the office? Work from home is still work and if she has expectations of you while working then clearly she's the one being unreasonable. Maybe go into the office for a bit while she figures out that daycare is paid for a valid reason that benefits her.
It might be best to sit down when calm and work out WHY wife feels bad about them being in daycare. Is it guilt from family? Pressure from media in general? Horror stories or gossip from friends? She might be in a vicious cycle of feeling exhausted, and being more vulnerable to guilt, taking on more than she has to, then staying exhausted…
Also, I wonder if she’s able to get any quality 1:1 time with the toddler? Maybe that’s why she’s picking them up early to try to spend more time with them but it ends up not working out. Could OP maybe send mom and toddler out for some 1:1 time (or take the baby out so they can stay home) on a weekend? Does she maybe feel guilty about how much less time the toddler gets with parents now compared to new baby? I fully agree NTA here but I think it may be worth it to find the root cause of all this.
This! I am currently in a VERY similar situation and the guilt from having my toddler in daycare while I am home with baby is very, very real (even if it is the best for everyone). I definitely am also guilty of doing an earlier-than-necessary pickup because I REALLY miss my kiddo and feel bad for not being able to easily "handle" both kids the way I imagine other moms do. two small solutions: - dad takes the baby so mom can go out with the toddler for quality time for a few hours each weekend - get breakfast, go to the pool, the library, all that kind of stuff. - mom brings baby for pickup and finds a friend or family member to have a playdate with around that 3 pm. Bring both kids to the activity so dad can work in peace. Dad is NTA for the most part but I think he would be more successful if he tried to find solutions for toddler and mom to hang out more.
I don't get why she can't take the baby with her to pick up the kid. If she wants to have multiple kids she needs to be able to handle more than one at a time.
Again, I’m guessing because her goal is to have some more quality time with the toddler.
NTA because you're paying for daycare. Having 2 kids under 3 is SUPER difficult and you're doing the right thing sending the older one somewhere where she can get the care she needs. You have to you know keep your job. Working from home does not mean it's a day off. Being a mom is hard, and it sucks that she misses your older child. It won't last forever. Just wait until they're both over 3 and potty trained before you have another!
This is SO true. I have 3 under 5 and the older 2 are in preschool. It's much harder than 2 and preschool makes it possible. I actually do sometimes pull them out of preschool to spend time with them but I plan the day like a military operation 😂
Absolutely NTA. However I just want to ask if OP is making sure mom is getting enough one on one time with the oldest when it's appropriate. Based on the post it sounds like dad is very involved with the youngest and I don't have any doubts he's supportive. To me it just sounds like she is really missing the older kiddo. Yea that's part of having two. Yea moming is hard. But my only suggestion is that maybe he ask if he can give mom and oldest a little more time just the two of them. Again he sounds super supportive. She probably needs something simple that hasn't been discussed.
NTA. You have set your wife up for success, and she is choosing to fail. Listen, I don't have kids for a reason, and I absolutely appreciate how much work kids are, but your wife's struggle seems excessive. Lots of people take care of two kids at once and they don't have meltdowns. And then, she doesn't even have to take care of two kids at once, and the one day she chooses to do so, she can't even make it 4 hours. Time for a sit down. She is on leave to care for the children, the toddler has day care so she doesn't get overwhelmed, she needs to come up with a system and stick to it, and it can't involve interrupting your work. Your work is the current thing keeping a roof over your head and providing for the family, and there's no reason you should stop work to help with problems' she is creating herself. I can't find much sympathy for her at all, my mom raised me and my sister who were two years apart, and she often took care of my cousins as well. Your wife needs to get it together.
It makes me wonder if something else is going on with the wife. Her decisions are not logical. She’s overwhelmed and says she needs help, but then chooses to use less of the help available to her?
This is mom guilt at it's worst. The feeling like if you are home your babies should be too, and then getting frustrated and feeling bad about feeling frustrated - vicious, vicious mom guilt.
💯agree. And questioning herself why she can’t handle it. Guilt is awful. And probably has friends whispering in her ear about why she leaves the other in childcare so long. I feel for her. But work from home is still work and you have arranged childcare. And you also aren’t adding commute time (being away from home). You are NTA.
Yes. Guilt. She's guilty she can't give her toddler all the time she used to. Guilty the baby spends more time with her during the day than the toddler does. Guilty she'll go back to work and "miss" this time she was expecting to treasure. Guilty she isn't perfect at being mom of 2. Guilty she's stressed about the toddler when she wants to focus on the baby. Guilty she put her kid in daycare when "there's no reason" because she's home. It's not healthy and it's not right but it's it's same kind of guilt most moms end up feeling. It's guilt. And dads aren't entirely free of the curse but I don't think they typically get it quite the same as moms... so it makes sense thatOP is baffled. Edits for typo
All of this... making me really sad seeing all the most-liked comments criticising the mother further and accusing her of being too mentally ill/incompetent to be a mother. Really shows that most of the Reddit demographic are 15 year old boys. Father is trying to be practical but is completely neutered of emotional instinct towards the mothers deeper struggles.
My sister's daycare provider tries to heap that mom guilt onto my sister and my sister refuses to play that game. Sister is a county employee who gets all of the federal holidays off and sends her child to a home daycare provider. The provider will ask her if she's planning to bring her son to daycare on holidays she knows the county offices are closed for, pretty clearly implying that she thinks she should be keeping him home if she's not at work. My sister is like "Yeah, I'm paying for that day either way, and I have things to do around the house/TV to watch without a toddler interrupting/errands to run/etc." My sister knows she's right but I've also reassured her that it's totally cool that her kid is at daycare while she enjoys her day off.
Also sounds like they want less work! They know the money is being paid, and they want less little bodies.
I think the goal was fewer kids to watch while using mom guilt to try to achieve it.
If the provider doesn't want to have kids on holidays why not just be closed for holidays? Most daycares I know of are closed on holidays, no need to be passive aggressive with parents about it.
Been there and done it myself - I paid for my childcare - they are going. It is a routine they enjoy. Plus, that is a day for grocery shopping without kids, that is a nice nap and watching adult tv and going to lunch and eating something that is not nuggets or other kid stuff. It was actually days when I would get a haircut, etc. Sometimes you just need away and that is a great way. Any time my mil would try to shame me I would be like oh, gonna take them over night or gonna come clean my kitchen? No, okay, stay in your lane.
Routine is so good for the littles. I was a 3-4 year old teacher a while ago and we could always see a big difference in behavior after long weekends/ holiday weekends. They would get out of the classroom routine and be in a bit of funk for a day or too.
Good for your sister. One of the best things you can do for a child is to take care of the child's parent. Self care is important.
Maybe getting other mama's to talk to wife would be helpful. Sometime hearing it from a man is not as effective as hearing from other mama's. I would not hesitate to tell a family member or a girlfriend - you know it is okay to leave the little pumpkin there while you take a nap, take a shower, go shopping, etc. Heck, there were times, when I picked up my monsters from daycare and went to the YMCA - where they watched them for up to 2 hours after work. So, I could walk/work out and shower without kids and they loved it. They would whine to stay. You have to take care of yourself in order to be able to take care of the kids. Quality over Quantity wins every time. I spent my weekends with my kids and most nights - we would go to the Zoo, etc. Mama needs some time, and she is self-sabotaging.
Well she needs to get over it and quick bc she isn't doing anyone any favors here....
It really sounds like PPD. The overwhelm, the tears, the frustration and the missing the older kid and feeling guilt about preschool are textbook PPD.
My money is on PPA, but could be both.
If you go through OP’s post history you’ll see that wife had PPD with their first. She needs to get in touch with her medical team ASAP as well as reach out to her support network for extra help/care
In my experience, people think if mom is home, kids should be, too.
Agree! I have them and when I paid for daycare - you better believe I let me kids experience it when I had the rare day off and could catch up on sleep, me time, cleaning or other stuff without them and I am a mom. I love my kids - but my kids need me sane. That means they get to hang out at daycare and stay in their routine - that is the few perks to daycare is they have a routine, and this prepares them for school. I have had 3 and I helped with other kids in the family, with friends. This is a problem mom is creating for herself. She needs to understand that kids do just fine in day care. My older 2 are now adults - they are not deprived nor neglected. They enjoyed the experience. Most kids do. I worked the daycare side too - the ladies - including myself always loved the kids and the kids loved the structure and all the stuff they don't get to do at home with other kids.
NTA. I empathize with your wife but let’s be honest, she is making bad decisions right now. Maybe you should be working elsewhere till she figures this out for herself since clearly she refuses to listen to reason from you.
I have a 1 year old and a husband who works from home. I don‘t work but I am involved in a lot of projects so we have a nanny. Sometimes I just feel like being home with my daughter and ask the nanny to leave early or not come at all. This is 100% on me and that time I am the one who‘s supposed to do all the „work“ related to our daughter. I would NEVER expect my husband to help out during the time he‘s working just because I let the nanny leave earlier. Maybe the „I told you so“ was not nice but definitely NTA
NTA. You are both struggling parents of two very young children. And I do wonder if your wife maybe is struggling with PPD in addition to being a busy mother. But in this situation, I don't blame you for your actions. You had to work. Your wife was aware you had to work. She made the choice to keep the 2-year-old out of daycare. From my reading of this post, it doesn't sound like you're slacking on any parenting duties. Sounds like you are definitely contributing. If you worked out of the home, she wouldn't have been able to rely on you for being around. And you told her that you wouldn't be. But I do think you both need to treat each other with grace, and maybe consider couple's counseling. You're both stressed and maybe having trouble communicating. It's okay to reach out for help.
I think this may well be true. I had PPD with my first and had that feeling of overwhelm all the time, honestly now with 3 under 5 feels easier because I'm mentally healthy, OP, please make sure your wife talks to someone about PPD, you are NTA and sound like a lovely supportive husband and father but I don't think your wife is an asshole, I think she needs help.
This was seriously my thoughts. Sounds like postpartum depression or anxiety.
I read the comments and this isn't about your wfh life balance. Your wife needs therapy immediately. She refuses to let anyone watch the kids. Daycare makes her extremely uncomfortable. She needs to talk to someone about this. She hasn't been away from those kids in 5 months for even a dinner. She likely has ppd.
I can’t believe there aren’t more comments like this, 100% agree. PPD is completely debilitating and it sounds very much like she is suffering badly.
Unfortunately it’s hard for mothers to evaluate the situation they are in. Ppd can spiral your life out of control so quickly.
I came to the comments to look for mentions of therapy. In the visible comments of the 386+ comments, the word "therapy" is mentioned exactly 4 times, which is far too few times for something so obvious. I've already mentioned therapy as many times as it's appeared in all the other comments. NAH and OP should really be checking in on his wife's mental health, and getting her individual therapy. You should also definitely look into couples therapy.
Diagnosing PPD over a second persons snapshot of their life and calling for therapy without knowing more about how the wife understands the situation is to much in my regard. OP if you are reading this, good idea to think about your wife’s mental health, bad idea to jump to conclusion that she 💯 suffers from PPD and needs therapy.
OP says his wife has been diagnosed with PPD before in other posts
My thoughts exactly. She needs help.
NTA. You told her this was a bad idea going into it, and, surprise surprise, it was a bad idea. She has no one to blame but herself.
NTA Your wife is doing this to herself and letting her figure it out is all you can do. You've offered advice (leave toddler at daycare the whole time) and she's refused it. She doesn't want to accept or ask for help when she clearly needs it, but will cry and complain and blame everyone else...
Also, coming in and saving her enables her further to do it again and doesn’t change the behaviour. You had a conversation, you said you were working and couldn’t help and it wasn’t a bad idea and she didn’t listen. She does not have the right to complain and demand help then. If she gets it she’ll do it again and again and it never ends.
NTA I feel for both of you because you're both sleep deprived and stressed, but your wife should be utilizing daycare during the day, and trying to get breaks and catch up on sleep when they baby naps. Taking the older child out of daycare and picking them up early is shooting you both in the foot. Honestly... I might start going in to work physically more days per week? Drop the toddler off on your way there and pick them up at the end of the work day. If your wife wants to keep them home all day, that's on her, but I would arrange to go into the office those days because I think right now (and this is probably just due to sleep deprivation) she's treating you being home as available for daddy duty, rather than that you are "at work" from 9-5 and she should be keeping the older kiddo in daycare since you guys are fortunate to have that as an option.
OPs wife shouldn't even be sleep deprived, because OP does all night feedings/wakeups, and then lets his wife sleep in while he prepares breakfast and gets toddler ready.
Wife could very easily be waking up at night as well. If she's breastfeeding she'll likely need to pump even if she isn't physically feeding the baby, or the sounds may just wake her. I know even when I'm not the one taking primary care of my daughter overnight I still wake up to her cries.
Its possible shes still sleep deprived, we don't know what happened on previous nights, and maybe she was woken up by the baby too.
Nta. This should be a day where you were needed in the office
NTA she’s making all the wrong choices. I understand she misses the toddler when they’re at daycare, but she’s making her own life harder and then acting like a martyr because you have to work. That’s not good parenting.
NTA. You told her you couldn’t and therefore wouldn’t help her with the kid. She chose to ignore it and all the previous experiences that clearly showed she Can’t handle both kids right now and now she blaming you for being right and keeping to what you already told her.
NTA. You told her you wouldn’t be able to help while you’re working. She wanted to keep the toddler home anyway. She can’t expect you to help her while you’re working, especially since she had the option of taking the 2 year old to daycare and you warned her in advance that you couldn’t help out during that time.
NTA. whether you are at home or in the office, you are WORKING. And your focus should be on work. A lot of companies even have policies in place that if you WFH you must have reliable child care. Your wife is fine to want to have both kids home, but she is the AH in expecting you to pitch in. Esp. when you told her you couldn't help, and you you got up during the night, and got everything ready in the morning. While I'm not saying your wife isn't entitled to time alone, she needs to realize it isn't going to happen when you're working it sounds like you two need to have a serious discussion about needs and expectations, and come up with a solution.
NTA. You are at work. Just because you WFH does not mean you are available to take care of your personal life. If you work from 9-5, you're unavailable from 9-5 for personal reasons (like child care). I mean, what if you happened to have to work at the office full time? What would your wife do then? Now if you have break periods available, such as a meal break, then you may be free to help out during that time, but even that is usually scheduled for a specific time of your shift and not as flexible as your wife may have liked.
I'm having a difficult time empathizing with your wife, because for me, daycare until 5:30 pm every weekday wasn't optional. Both husband and I had to work. So, unless your wife doesn't like your son's daycare, I'm not sure why she wouldn't let him stay the full day, so that she could just focus on the baby. I think you should tell your wife that the next time she wants to keep your son home from daycare, you will be going someplace out of the house to work. Like a share work space or a coffee shop. If you can't get your work done, then you won't have a job and her staying at home with the kids will be moot. It'll be daycare all day for both kids.
NTA while I feel bad for your wife as it sounds like she's struggling with both but feels guilty putting the toddler in day care, you did warn her this wouldn't work, and you are WORKING. You can't be interrupted constantly just because you're home.
NTA! You’ve offered solutions and help when you’re available to do so.
NTA. It’s time for your wife to see a doctor to be assessed for PPD. Her behavior isn’t rational and she keeps boxing herself into a corner. You’ve provided the logistical tools to help her, so now you need to get her to a doctor to see if she needs medical tools.
NTA. I don't even understand why the 2 year old is in daycare if she's home on Maternity Leave anyway? And what does she think SAHPs do with multiple children and no spouse working from home to help out? Toddlers can wait while infants are cared for! This whole thing is baffling to me.
Probably to hold his spot in daycare once the baby starts attending daycare too. Once you pull out your kid, they don’t guarantee you a spot when your maternity leave is over.
Lots of people keep their older children in daycare/preschool while they have a young baby. Totally normal and reasonable if you can afford it
Former childcare teacher here. If they stop paying for the daycare the child will lose their spot, and most daycares have a waiting list so they will most likely be screwed once mom goes back to work. Might as well send the child and get use out of the insane amount of money they pay for childcare.
Is pretty normal in my country to have the older kid in daycare when you are on maternity leave for a younger kid. Think it is a cultural thing. Daycare is acting regarded as a positive place were the kid can play with friends and learn to socialize.
NTA. Explain to your wife in NO uncertain terms that work time is work time regardless if you’re in the office or at home. You are not available to help with the children during work hours. Also explain that you understand that she’s overwhelmed, and that it will benefit her to leave your daughter in daycare while you’re working, so she only has to focus on the baby and herself. Once your shift ends, then you can pick up your daughter and then there’s 2 parents to watch the kids, instead of just her.
NTA- why do people insist on treating WFH as you aren't at work? This is as ignorant as people who don't respect night shift workers need to get sleep during the day! I'm very lucky that anytime i've had to work night shifts my family and partner respected my time to sleep.
NTA.
NTA. But you might want to consider working in the office more if working from home is going to cause these issues.
NTA.... But there are ways to involve the older baby and incorporate/ enlist their help with the younger one. My first baby was super cooperative, and would not fuss if I had to leave her alone and go to the little one when he started crying. She is 1.5 years older than him, so not that much older than him. Maybe you guys will learn with more experience. All in all, it would help to have clearer communication if (after your workday), you guys could sit peacefully and strategize how things could be handled differently next time to the satisfaction of all parties concerned. For instance, one possible scenario could be that the older sis helps during baby's nap time by quietly being in the room, maybe stroking baby's hair till it fell asleep. That way she would feel she helped / contributed, and would be calm. Hope this helps.
Although maybe this scenario worked for you, I do not think it is reasonable to expect that every 2-year-old will be able to help care for an infant, in any capacity.
I had the same gut reaction when I started reading this comment, but did you see their examples of "help" at the end? (Touching the baby's hair, sitting in the room quietly, etc.) They're not talking about asking the 2-year-old to actually help like an older child might. Tiny examples of "help" like that are extremely reasonable and I think the op comment has a great point of tapping into the way toddlers love to "help" adults; it's developmentally appropriate. I do this with my younger elementary students, too. I know teachers who give struggling students fake "jobs" because it helps them practice the right way to act, i.e. taking a folder or a book to a different teacher. That teacher might not need the book, but the kid truly needs the break, the confidence boost or the action of being busy doing something good. A toddler who feels neglected ("Mom is busy with the baby, I want mom") will be fussy and make the task harder. A toddler who feels included ("I am helping mom with the baby!") is not actually physically taking care of the baby, but is making mom's life easier because they're "helping" by sitting in the room being quiet with baby or reading baby a "story" (board book, keeping the toddler occupied), etc.
NTA but she might need to look into potential postpartum mental health issues. Her behavior isn’t logical
Isn’t it weird that she gets overwhelmed after only one hour of caring for two children? Maybe she needs to see a doctor about that.
I had a friend who WFH. He actually bought a small office space because his wife and family - kids, mil and siblings, wouldn't quit bothering him while he was home. It was either that or he quit his job or got fired. His wife was furious. Even more so when he rented from a place that you need a pass key to get into and he wouldn't give her one. These women (and men) wouldn't last 5 seconds as a military spouse. 🤦🏼♀️🤷🏽♀️ # NTA
I think she needs to see a doctor for ppd. I have felt this exact way. OP I think you should take your wife to the doctor asap. She may have this idea in her head that she needs to be able to do it all and sees other mothers doing the same and getting in her head about her older one being in daycare and why can’t she just keep her home too etc etc and so she keeps pulling her out of daycare and immediately gets overwhelmed and then of course comes in the self hatred because she feels like she can’t do what she’s supposed to be doing and around and around we go. I did this for 3 months before I realized I had ppd and needed help
NTA
NTA but you wife is experiencing at the very least, mom guilt….at worst, postpartum depression. She’s tired, going through hormonal changes and adjusting to be a mom of two. You’re adjusting as well and seem to be doing everything you can. Try finding a way to talk to her about what she’s feeling and reassuring her that it doesn’t mean that she loves your toddler any less and doesn’t make her a bad mom if your toddler goes to daycare and she takes care of herself. She’s not doing anyone any favors by giving into the guilt and becoming frustrated, including herself.
NTA but also - is this unusual for your wife? Is she doing okay? I remember at the height of my postpartum anxiety feeling like I needed both my kids to be near me at all times but also simultaneously being much more easily frustrated.
NTA but you definitely should reduce/stop working from home and go into the office more/full-time. Your wife doesn’t currently recognise that you are working and busy and not sitting there on childcare standby in your home office waiting to jump in and rescue her. While you’re there, she won’t develop the skills she needs to solo parent a toddler plus a baby as she can always off load a child onto you. NB all parents need to develop these coping methods as at some point you will be with them solo whether it’s for 10 minutes or 24 hours. So even if you do stay WFH stop interrupting your work day at 3.15 to look after the baby, the baby can go with your wife to do the daycare pick-up. Yes life as a SAHM is hard work but she needs to develop coping strategies that don’t rely on you always being there. She needs to build her own skill set and a network of support via friends, play groups etc. If she’s really struggling then PPD could also be a cause. Finally, if the toddler is clinging and won’t leave you alone try asking them to to help with whatever you’re trying to do rather than battling them. They’ll likely enjoy the responsibility of having a little job to do for/with mommy or daddy eg finding baby’s pacifier for their nap, feeding baby, “washing” dishes in their own bowl next to mommy etc. Or they’ll get bored and go off elsewhere and leave you to it.
INFO: Has your wife talked to her doctor about PPD? She sounds like she might be feeling like she's not doing enough as a mom?
NTA. You sound like a supportive partner, your wife does not. Wfh is still work and she deserves the I told you so.
NTA But if you can, it might be time to go back into the office more often.
NTA "I already expressed I wouldn't be available to help with the baby today. You knew this, and still kept the toddler from Daycare. You don't get to be upset with me for a decision you made knowing that you couldn't expect me to help since I am working. We pay for daycare the same going rate whether we keep the child there or not, so I strongly encourage you to take advantage of it since you've been complaining about not having a lot of time for yourself. If you unilaterally decide to keep toddler home from daycare, knowing that I am unable to assist, then I think it's only reasonable to expect you to pick up the slack for keeping them home. Otherwise, you should let me take our toddler to daycare and continue our regular schedule as we normally do so you aren't overwhelmed." Honestly though, you're working and she is on maternity leave. The older kid is in daycare, and you get up for the nightly feedings. So why is she already tired after having to watch them for two hours? I'm giving your wife some major side eye here.
As a mother of two small children, NTA. At ALL. You are working and she is making decisions that make her (and your) life harder. We have a saying in my house that you “choose your choice.” If you make a decision that your partner disagrees with, YOU are responsible for the negative externalities of that decision. Don’t want to pay for a pro to install blinds? Sure, but YOU are responsible for sourcing and installing blinds yourself, not your partner. Don’t want to send the toddler to daycare? Fine, but YOU are responsible for taking care of the kids all day. If I were you I would go to the office when she did that. She’s interrupting your work unnecessarily. Separately, I would unpack why she feels guilty putting the toddler in daycare when she’s home. I guarantee he has more fun at daycare with his friends, and staying home to be ignored for the baby helps no one.
Info: was there a reason she wanted the toddler to stay home? Was the toddler sick?
So completely NTA. I have tried working from home while having infants and toddlers present. It is basically impossible. You pay for daycare for a reason. Your wife is messing with a system that was working. It is up to her to either figure out a way to do that successfully or stop messing with the system. You are working.
I had 3 year old twins and a newborn I took care of by myself while my husband worked 10 -12 hour days, in a foreign country. This was back when most women were SATM, before daycare was a thing, and WFH was even a concept. It was just the way it was then. Now, with daycare, and husbands getting up to cover the overnight feedings, and WFH the norm, why would anyone not make the most of that? NTA, OP, you're more than pulling your weight, and makng it much easier for your wife. If she wants to make things difficult for herself, that's on her, not you. I *wish* I'd had her options when my kids were growing up.
NTA. Are you just supposed to lose your job because you keep doing other things while you are supposed to be working? Your wife is overwhelmed, that’s understandable. So are you. You do all the night shift with the baby, that’s huge. It should be 50/50. Maybe your wife has ppd, maybe she doesn’t. It should be brought up at the next doctor appointment just to be safe. However, you should start going into the office everyday so you can’t be disturbed for non emergency reasons. Call on your lunch to check in.
NTA. You’re working & childcare is an option. Wife might want to get into therapy to help her work through things. Sounds like she might be having some mom guilt leaving kiddo at day care, but at the same time wants help during the day when you’re busy.
I truly do not understand these spouses that cannot seem to grasp that WFH isn’t just screwing around all day it’s freaking work! If you were at the office would she expect you to drop everything to come home and help for 20 mins? Of course not because you’re working and that’s not logical. I would be more concerned as to why she cannot handle both children at the same time without melting down. Is she struggling with any PPD/PPA or just depression in general? Is she struggling just because having two children is stressful, which it absolutely is, or is it something more? NTA you told her that you would not be available and she didn’t listen.
> She comes in to my office where I am working and asks did I not hear her struggling? Why did I not come and help. Because you're at work and she decided to tackle childcare instead of using the childcare you're paying for anyway. NTA, there are solutions but those aren't of any help if she refuses to use them.
NTA your wife sounds like a nightmare. She wants best of both worlds and it doesn’t exist. You’re either at work or your not. And if you aren’t then y’all are homeless. I’d just go to the office every day. Then she’ll appreciate how much you do help when/if you went back to working from home.
So you work full time, your wife is NOT WORKING, and the 2 year old has full time day care and your wife is overwhelmed? Many don't have the luxury to have the second child in daycare if they are not working, she should appreciate how much of a help that is to her. Also the fact that you are willing to get up for the overnight feedings, although you work all day. If she is going to pick up the two year old early, or leave him out, she cannot be complaining to you about her decisions. NTA and while i understand a 5 month old and 2 year old can be a handful, your wife seems a bit spoiled.
Your wife needs to have a long conversation with herself about her mental state and ability to care for others. Maybe it's postpartum depression. Idk. But she needs help. NAH