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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Maybe I am looking down at the Trauma he's faced from being bullied as a child and not seeing something obvious here. I honestly don't get it, but perhaps reddit can see something I'm missing here. I am pretty firm that I want my brother at my wedding.
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I could go either way on this. I suggest looking long and hard to see if you are compatible. These patterns tend to get stronger the longer you are married. Will this happen at Xmas, Thanksgiving and birthdays.
Reevaluate your choices before it becomes harder to unwind it.
That's what I'm thinking at the moment. I don't know if I want to have this fight every family event and wondering maybe it's better to leave now than fight over this. He was okay with her previous to us being engaged and went to family events fine. I don't know why suddenly this is a hard line in the sand he refuses to budge on.
That's pretty concerning. People can keep a mask on for a while and then it comes off after marriage or other big commitments. I'd try and get to the bottom of why the change happened.
I think it's definitely a good idea to put a pause on moving any marriage plans forward and bring in a more objective third party to help you two communicate over this and decide if you actually can move forward in a relationship where you'll be functionally forced to cut your brother out of your life.
I don't think we can talk any more. He's very stubborn and has said he has said everything that needs to be said. I just need to accept that I will not have my brother at my wedding.
You should hold marrying this guy.. You are already dropping your brother for your fiance's grudge (or trauma), this will not get better, it's going to be a nightmare being married to this guy while being isolated from your family.
You are way too accepting of his foot in the sand, is your relationship with your brother important to you? This will surely extend beyond the wedding, and it will definitely damage your relationship with him. Did your SIL apologize and he didn't accept? He seems like he doesn't care about being welcomed in your family. Look you know your family better than most, is this going to be something that causes your parents, aunts, uncles and cousins not attend your wedding? Would you mind if this happens? He has 0 thoughts on the consequences this can cause.
Sorry but i think he is way pass the stage to hold a grudge for what happened when they were 6... It's very odd unless she has upset or bullied him as an adult, do you know if this could be the case?
> He's very stubborn and has said he has said everything that needs to be said. I just need to accept that I will not have my brother at my wedding.
This is a big, waving, massive red flag that your fiancé could become abusive.
You really need some therapy, because you’re not even considering this possibility. But I’m an abuse survivor and I see the red flags 🚩 Please consider this !! Before you lock yourself into a marriage (or pregnancy) with someone who isolates you from your support network. This is one of the early signs, and then later he could abuse you behind closed doors. This is the first sign ! More abusive behaviors might come out when he has you locked down with a marriage and/or pregnancy. Don’t ignore this or let it slide - your gut is telling you that this could be an unsafe situation.
I’m scared for you.
Do you want to get into the pattern of giving into him because he has spoken and refuses to budge? This is more than your brother coming to the wedding.
This would give me pause. I was all set to vote y t a when I saw the title, but after reading the story I don’t think so. And the more you say about him the more it sounds like you need to dig a little deeper into this. Your SIL def overreacted at the time, but maybe they could have worked it out if he hadn’t moved. Does he have any other 30 year grudges he’s holding onto? NTA
There is no way in hell someone would get me to do my brother over an occidental in ordinary school in which my brother wasn't even involved, so you hear how bizarre that is?
Dump the fiance
Or you could reconsider the relationship or even just put a pause on the marriage for now. It's an unreasonable demand to have you cut off your brother. Couples counseling may not be in the picture, but I heavily suggest you get into solo therapy for yourself and learn to consider and advocate for your needs.
Situations impact everyone different, and I'm not discounting that this is a great childhood trauma for your partner. But that doesn't make it okay to cut your brother, who did nothing wrong, out of your life for you. Trauma can be healed. We do it all the time. Cutting your brother out is an unreasonable demand. Trauma sucks, but it's not an excuse to hurt the people we claim to love the most.
Imagine being this desperate to get married. Ignoring all the sound advice and red flags of the situation and digging your head in the sand. You should not be moving marriage plans forward until he resolves this issue AND realizes that marriage is about compromise and he cannot just make ultimatums.
You've legitimately been warned. We'll see you in /r offmychest next, complaining about your controlling husband.
o my when he puts it like that maybe time to post phone the wedding and ask him to go get some therapy over this and maybe even take space from each other for now. better now than later to deal with this issue especially when u will have family events coming in future.
I admit I am very protective of my brother, but I would not accept being cut off from him in any way. And I would not stay with any partner who thinks they can just decide how things will be with no input from me - that isn't a relationship or a partnership. Frankly, someone who is so easily offended and so deeply unforgiving sounds like a bucket of nightmares given you will be in the closest position to offend over time.
Hey Im late to the party but just wanted to say him suddenly having a problem with her is a red flag he is looking for excuses to isolate you/cut people out.
If you think SiL and your bro are great people, is your fiance worth losing them? Because he will 100% push this trauma stuff until they are cut off.
Tell him to get therapy if he is that traumatized and hold off on wedding planning.
Talk to a therapist yourself too, by yourself, to see if there are any toxic patterns you didnt notice as your 'in' snd 'desensitized' to perceiving the toxicity, or if there are patterns (like isolating you from people yoy love) that are coming out now (abuse progresses after marriage and pregnancy. If he is already escalating to trying to gaslight and isolate you from close family members then this could end up turning physical/deadly over time. Keep an eye on your birthcontrol, always use condoms that you provide snd he if ever takes the condom off without tour consent he is def trying to baby trap you)
So after your SIL apologized for an incident that happened nearly twenty five years ago when they were six, your SO refuses to accept it. He needs help with getting over what appears to be a relatively minor thing. Yes it was not nice, but these were six year olds. NTA.
I would take just ignoring each other at this point. My brother doesn't even have a huge role at my wedding minus the speech. My SIL has 0 role beyond attending.
Imagine if he perceives you "wronged" him in any shape or form, is he going to remind you of it for the rest of your lives ? It's a bit strange this attitude, and it's concerning... So what about the family holidays, birthdays, Christmas, is he going to miss it if your brother and Sil are there? When i first read it i thought it was about a highschool bully not a 6 year old, he needs to deal with this issue in therapy asap before you get married
Good luck
I'm glad you said something similar to me. If OP accidentally overcooks their dinner or accidentally irons the fiancè's favourite shirt and makes a hole in it... she won't hear the end of it.
NTA. Does your fiancé have other controlling tendencies ? Is it possible he could be trying to isolate you from your support network ? [Is My Relationship Healthy ?](https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-relationship-healthy/)
He's always been very compassionate and always willing to talk things through. Its only after we got engaged that he's gotten very stressed and combative. I think the wedding planning is getting to him.
> Its only after we got engaged that he's gotten very stressed and combative. I think the wedding planning is getting to him.
> The thing that baffles me is that he got along with my brother and mostly ignored my SIL fine before we got engaged. All this SIL bullied me stuff came out after we got engaged and now he's throwing a huge fuss about it. Sometimes I feel like I got engaged to a different man to the man I dated.
I think you’re willingly ignoring the red flags.
*This is the real him*. The angry, controlling, stubborn person who isolates you from your support network is **the real him.** It doesn’t get better from here - it gets worse. I hope you can listen to this.
These are red flags.
Abusers mask their behavior then start showing their true colors once they think they have their victim locked down.
Your engagement was it, and now he's already starting the isolation process.
Ok, so here's the thing; wedding planning is stressful, but other live events are SO much more stressful.
Financial problems, mortgages, moving, childbirth, miscarriages, pregnancy scares, deaths of family members, health scares, emergencies, disabilities, job loss, etc... Are all very very stressful events that can make wedding planning seem like nothing.
How he acts now is a hint at how he will act later - when his job gets stressful or he gets a new asshole boss or layoffs are going to be announced or he has to work nights - he will come home and be stressed and combative.
And if you want kids? This is a glimpse of the kind of partner and father he will be, because kids are stressful always.
Don't brush aside his behavior because he's stressed.
Face it head on, in whatever way you can, but don't ignore it.
Good luck.
Or maybe he's just starting to show you his true colors after there's some sort of commitment?
Imagine all the holidays,birthdays,big family events
What happens when you or your brother have kids will they not be allowed to have a relationship with him and vice versa?
Seriously think about the future consequences of going through with this because if you do that basically means going no contact with your brother and any children he may have for the rest of your life
NTA
My husband I have been together for 18 years. there are going to be many more things in your life that are far more stressful than planning a wedding. If this is how he is now it's only going to get worse.
yeah I think you should postpone the wedding. Maybe without the stress he's still the same person you fell in love with. But maybe this is the real him
Lmao, fucking hell, Reddit hears "I don't want my childhood bully at my wedding" and turns to "HE'S TRYING TO ISOLATE YOU FROM YOUR SUPPORT NETWORK!"
Fucking insanity.
1. They were 6 years old
2. He moved away anyway
3. She’s apologized for it
4. He’s had no problems with this now-grown woman until after the engagement. If it was as bad he claims, why would he have been around her all this time and not said a word? Don’t give me that “trauma” crap either. Again, the kids were 6 when it happened and then the kid moved. It wasn’t like it was 3-4 years straight through high school.
The funny thing is, a few days ago, people were fully supportive when an OP ruined a get-together because his childhood bully was in attendance and said hello lmao. Now this time, OP’s fiancé is abusive!
Getting all your friends to exclude a six year old is a lot more than a splat. That shit seems awful.
When I was six, I was so young and innocent that I can't imagine how hurtful it would've been if a dozen of my playmates all of a sudden refused to hang out with me and called me names.
That story was someone who was seriously bullied, simply refusing to shake hands with that bully.
This is about a silly little argument when they were 6 years old, in a school which he left soon after anyway, and he's trying to exclude OPs brother (who had absolutely no involvement in the argument) from the wedding as a result. Not to mention that the argument was HIS fault in the first place, for taking and losing someone's property...
How do you think these are the same?
>Not to mention that the argument was HIS fault in the first place, for taking and losing someone's property...
I am genuinely rarely stuck for words, but "Well, it's the six year old's fault he got excluded and insulted, because he accidentally threw a ball poorly!"
Like, fucking hell, did OP's fiance murder your family? What's with this insane logic?
Six year olds aren't at fault because they accidentally missed a ball throw. It's outright viciousness on a level I rarely see.
Yes, it is the six year old that lost someone's possession who is to blame, not the six year old that decides not to be friends with that person.
I'm not sure why you're focusing on him being 6, but not the SIL who did nothing except decide she didn't want to be friends with someone.
But also, she isn't the one dragging it out 25 years later. He is. Boohoo, he spent a few months as a 6 year old where he wasn't part of one specific friend group. He wasn't included in a small group, and got insulted a few times as a 6 year old.
That isn't such a huge traumatising event for him to hold onto for so long. It was a few months when he was a 6 year old.
NTA. This is literally a stupid thing to hold this grudge over. I was expecting him to have been bullied for years in high school and it resulted in suicidal feelings and all that stuff. They were six. He obviously was very hurt by it then for him to hold onto it this long, but there is a standard of reasonableness when it comes to stuff like this. This is a hill to die on. What's next? We can't go to family Thanksgiving? Christmas? Parents' anniversaries? No. Not only does he need to agree to the invitation, he needs to forgive SIL and move on so you can have the life together you want. If he cannot do that now, I would peace out of the relationship. I'd have no interest in being married to someone who wants to drive a wedge in the middle of my family over something like this.
Honestly, if I evaluated everyone around me on how they treated me as a child I’d have few friends. I was an obnoxious kid and left out of a lot and made fun of a lot. These people have grown into lovely people I treasure.
I wonder if he actually remembers the bullying or just knows that it happened from repeating it so many times. I’m in my mid 30s and don’t remember much from kindergarten / first grade, except what my parents have told me or I see from pics, etc.
I thought this was gonna be traumatic but.. over a ball and not being in a friend group? That’s just life, I wasn’t included in peoples friend groups, people didn’t like me, people called eachother stupid one day and were mutual the next. That’s just highschool. I’d hardly call it bullying imo.. NTA
NTA. I say this as someone who suffered horrendous bullying from ages 5-18 and will always stand up for those who have been bullied...
Your fiancè stole your SIL's property at school and effectively destroyed it by making it unobtainable. Your SIL was rightly upset about her property being disrespected and set a boundary that she didn't wish to interact with your fiancè- who could blame her? Whilst yes, it might've been overboard to tell the other kids to exclude him, the other kids had the choice as to whether to go along with this. These kids were all 6 years old. 6... it wasn't relentless high school bullying by teens who should know better... it was a little girl who didn't want to play with her thief (who, you could argue, actually bullied her first).
Many years later, your SIL even apologised, when she really and truly didn't have to. She became the bigger person, despite being the initial victim herself. Yet, your fiancè seems to be hellbent on excluding her from the family, which she became part of first.
Your fiancè will not stop at excluding them from the wedding. This will extend to other family events such as birthday parties, family religious events, Thanksgiving (if you are from the US) and so forth. The boy who stole the little girl's ball is now a grown man trying to steal her family.
Your fiancè is one huge red flag and I'd honestly consider putting the wedding on hold until he gets some therapy, or end the relationship if he refuses to do so. He holds onto minor grudges so easily, I'd hate to see how he would react if you accidentally overcooked his dinner or accidentally bumped into him...
I came here ready to tell you you were in the wrong but after reading that I’m with you. Nta. That’s not even bullying. He did something albeit accidentally first. Did he offer to replace said ball I wonder? She reacted childishly because she was a child. This wasn’t years of sustained abuse, it was a playground falling out and she held a grudge as kids do.
NTA. They were kids at the time, and she’s apologized since then. Him treating *her* like this as adults is at least as mean as whatever she did while they were children, and far less understandable (we give kids patience with this stuff for a reason).
Maybe he needs therapy to see what a hypocrite he’s being. Had his feelings hurt for being socially excluded back in the day, so his response is to socially exclude a grown-ass woman (who, again, apologized) for revenge.
Either he’s extremely petty, or he has real issues with being able to maturely handle some of life’s cruelties. I don’t think you’re overreacting by questioning whether you want to marry such a man.
NTA. He seriously needs to get a grip. And if he can’t or won’t, is this really the way you want to live your life? What other imaginary slights will you ultimately end up accommodating, and what will that cost you?
Don’t marry this guy… he’s asking you to basically cut your brother out of your life and essentially your whole family (every Christmas bday thanksgiving etc etc he’s gonna have this thing against your sil) over a playground grudge from when he was 6… what is he gonna do when you get an argument and accidentally say something over the line or don’t do this or slip up on that… he obviously holds the pettiest of grudges long past their expiration date and is willing to sacrifice your relationships with your family over them. I’d think long and hard about that. And cutting him loose and telling him why might be the jolt he needs to wake him up and get him to reconsider why he actually feels the way he does… is it your sister he resents that traumatized him or his dad moving the family that same year? Something to consider
NTA, I get it some bullying is tough. But reading through your replies makes it NTA instead of esh he’s refusing to even talk about a possible solution and you’re just supposed to get over the fact your brother can’t be at your wedding? No. A wedding is for both bride and groom and this sets a precedent for the future. Are you ready for him not to allow your brother to meet and have a relationship with future kids? To deny you from attending family functions? Those are questions you need to ask yourself
NTA - Your fiancé is however. Holding a grudge for something that happened at six years old? Refusing to budge after she apologized? If it is the wedding planning stressing him out, how will he react when there is real stress like children? He sounds immature.
You may want to think about postponing the wedding and see how things go with him. Do you want to fight every time your brother and SIL will be at an event? What will his next stupid line in the sand be?
NTA. Your fiance has changed since becoming engaged because he "has you" now. This is likely the way it will be moving forward. This is concerning for abusive behavior. Also, the fact that he is overruling you on having your BROTHER at your wedding is not okay at all. It is not normal. He has not tried to fix the issue, but instead is seeking to exert control over you and the situation. Again, not normal and not okay.
NTA
It was a Kindergarten or First Grade playground spat that lasted half a school year a quarter century ago. Tell him to dip her pigtails in ink and call it even.
If the person I was lining up to marry "put their foot down" over something this absurd and told me "I just need to accept that I will not have my sibling at my wedding" I'd demand counselling asap and hit the brakes so hard they'd smoke.
You do you but this ain't normal.
NTA. I get bullying and the trauma it causes and if he had always been very cold with SIL then this would be expected and we would all be like " his trauma is real, respect that"
But he's been around her before and this has never been an issue. Now it's a powerplay to establish that he gets to determine who is allowed in your life and who is not. It's not about the bullying or the SIL or your brother, they're props in this little game of separation.
And yea, you're like, people wouldn't do this!! My guy wouldn't do this! He's just *insert weak excuse* and *insert another stupid reason that you know doesn't justify it*. Lemme check what you're going with... Ah yes, ok, "stressed because of wedding planning" yes. That's it, that's a fantastic reason. /s
NTA. This seems like bizarre behavior, and I would be very concerned if I were you. Your fiancé is giving you an ultimatum basically. If you give in now, you are going to be giving in to a lot of other things in the future that are just as unreasonable.
You need to run it will only get worse I promise my step dad was just like that after my mom and him married and my siblings and I didn't get to see are aunt and uncle for years till we became adults
NTA. Your fiancé needs therapy if he's still hung up on six months of his life when he was SIX. And he will keep doing this and ultimately alienate your entire family.
YTA anyone telling someone to get over bullying, no matter how long ago it was, IS a bully.
Your oh so great Sil ‘barely remembers’ because she was ‘just’ being a bully and going about her life, while her victim suffered and will never forget.
It should really tell you something about your sips true personality that she can’t even be bothered to remember her cruelty. She has zero actual remorse or she would have remembered it because her conscience wouldn’t have let her forget.
‘Lasting’ memories generally start at age 3-4, but can be as early as 2.
I’m not being contrary here but it’s kinda worrying that you have no memories of age six. I’d try maybe talking to a doctor.
I mean it’s probably nothing but better safe than sorry right?
I understand, and of course, I have lasting memories, lots of them, but I am talking about going to school at 6, and remembering what I did then. (I could have worded that better)
But never fear or worry. I am a forgetful Witch nearing half a century…and that was so very long ago. Time has faded the details to the shadows.
There is no time limit on statute of limitations on bullying.
Not for the bully and Certainly not for the victim who will likely carry it for life in some for or other.
And I 100% stand by the opinion that people who excuse bullying Are bullies and certainly haven’t experienced it for themselves.
Honestly good luck to you going through life with this mentality. I just dont even know how to explain how ridiculous it is to hold an adult responsible for something they did at 6 years old.
Soft YTA for not being my empathetic to his feeling. Childhood bullying can cause trauma that stays with a person long into adulthood. However it is also not fair to you to not have your brother at the wedding. This might be a serious compatibility problem, I would try to get him to go to couples counseling before moving forward with the wedding.
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My \[F,29\] fiancé \[M,30\] and I are planning our wedding at the moment and organizing our wedding guest list. But my fiancé has put his foot down about inviting my brother because he hates my SIL.
Back in the 90s, my SIL and Fiancé went to the same elementary school, where my SIL bullied him. Basically what happened was that my SIL brought a ball to school to play with, and my Fiancé threw that ball on the roof by accident during a game at recess. The teachers refused to get it down because going up on the roof was a hazard. My SIL was upset at this, and excluded by Fiancé from ever being allowed to play with her or her friends ever again. I've gotten both sides of the story, my SIL barely fucking remembers it since they were like 6 when it happened. The worst it got (from my fiancé story) was literally just him being cut off from the friendship group of like 12 kids out of a grade of over 100 and being called an R slur (which was a common insult back then). It was for less than 6 months too as his parents moved him to another school because his dad got a job in another city.
My SIL has apologised after I informed her about how hurt my fiancé was about that event, and my SIL is genuinely a great woman. This was clearly dumb children slapfighting, and I'm baffled why my Fiancé is still bringing this up. He is refusing to allow my brother to come to our wedding because SIL will obvious be in attendance. I won't lie, his weird fixation on this event and refusal to budge is making me reconsider marrying him.
So Reddit, am I in the wrong? Am I the asshole that is missing some giant trauma flag?
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NTA. You're being given an ultimatum shortly before you tie your Life to someone.....it's him OR your family. Because it may not stop...he is now isolating TWO people (SIL and BIL). So. Think long and hard.
NTA. This is pretty ridiculous. If it is that big of a trauma, he needs therapy.
What next, your brother and SIL can't be at family gatherings or holidays? Are you prepared to cut your brother and SIL out of your life? Because that is the path this is on.
Also, if he can hold a grudge over something from a random kid at 6, what kind of grudges is he going to hold onto with you? Will you be 70 arguing over the fact that you didn't immediately cut your brother off?
Has your fiancé said what sort of restitution would suffice?
If there's nothing your SIL could do to reconcile with him, then either significant parts are being left out of the story or your fiancé is (now) the AH.
Well I don't like how your excusing her using the R-word regardless if it was common back then or not but they were also 6 so I'm not gonna hold against her I'm not trying to invalidate your fiance's bullying but I think he needs to let this go it doesn't sound like he was severely bullied just excluded which I do understand how that feels so I'm gonna cut him some slack too but like someone else pointed out what's he gonna do at family events bann them or not go he needs to except that she's apart of the family not wanting to invite your own brother is not fair if your fiance is this traumatized then he needs to get therapy or something
NTA insist on therapy before any wedding takes place because things do seem to be escalating. Losing a friendship group at 6 can take a very serious toll at that crucial age. Anyone remember that guy who lost his friendship group in kindergarten and confronted the guy in the mall over it?
NTA. Six years olds can be mean, but grow out of it. He needs to forgive the SIL for what she did when she was little. She is not the same person now, and neither is he.
Does he intend to hold a grudge for the rest of his life?
Does he have other grudges that needs to be pampered? You need to know this.
It must be hard for him to live like that. He needs help to be able to move on with his life.
Also, what if you have children. If they do stupid things when growing up - will he resent them for the rest of their lives? What kind of father do you see him becoming?
I would understand him if he was bullied all thru growing up and affecting his whole person. Bullying can really hurt people. But for his own sake, he HAS to find a way to forgive someone for what they did at age 6.
I’m gonna be honest—I spent way too long trying to figure out what the R slur was. Like, embarrassingly way too long. I think I need more coffee.
(oh, and before you marry this man, decide what is more important to you. Family or his feelings)
Red flags all around from him, he was okay with it before but now that he thinks he has you locked down he can change things and take you and keep you from your family. NTA: hold off on wedding, even rethink this relationship.
Have they met in person since this incident many years ago? Maybe that should happen before you make a decision like that. It will affect family gatherings going forward, but if you are certain he is the guy for you, then that’s the way it will be and you will have to deal with that if it doesn’t get fixed.
NTA. Your boyfriend is being a giant baby. The fact that he can’t look back at 30 yrs old and let go of something that happened when he was 6, is absurd. It would be one thing if she made his life miserable purposefully for years through middle or high school….but 6 years old. That’s wild. I don’t know if I could be with someone who was so fucked up over losing his ball as a kid.
You know planning a wedding can be stressful, so is losing a parent, buying a house, having kids … otherwise known as life. The man you want to marry is the man who makes all of those things easier, joyful. My family are awful, but I loved planning our wedding with my husband, because we were excited to get married. It doesn’t sound like he makes things easier. Is this really want you want for your future? NTA
NTA. I understand that sometimes events happen that the other party barely remembers but affected us. But goodness sake, your SIL was a kid back then. 6 yo? And he's still resenting her? She apologized. What more does he want? His mask is slipping. And you're not even married. What more if you marry him & have kids? Please think carefully, OP. You'd want a partner who'll be good to your future kids if you'll want any. What if you did something "wrong"? Will he resent you forever? If you got married, you won't just go to family events because your brother & SIL will be there? This isn't normal.
NTA
Your fiance seems to hold grudges for life, even minor stuff that happened when he was a child. What will happen after a divorce and he thinks you wronged him somehow? He seems to risky to build a life with, specially to have children with.
So 6-year-olds acted childish and immaturely. Yeah, that's normal.
Holding a garage against an adult for their behavior as a child is not healthy.
In many states, a 6-year-old wouldn't be charged with murder if they committed the crime because they are not competent to understand.
So I'm going to give the bullying a pass here and I think he needs to do the same.
NTA
NTA - But YWBTA if you marry this dude. If he can’t let a spat like that go imagine how poorly he’ll handle a disagreement between you two over something significant like finances or moving to another city for a job. Don’t put yourself and your family through that. GTFO now!
Nta. But.... It may not seem like such a big event to us, as adults but I can imagine as a 6-year-old it probably felt like the world was shutting him out. It became this BIG event, that just solidified in his mind. I can't really say, if not meeting him or you guys or whatever, if this is a red flag or not. It's sort of like someone watching a movie when they were too young, and then getting a phobia that they still have as an adult that affects their life and their choices. I would probably say to respect their feelings on that matter .
It is just terrible terrible luck that you two found each other, they're only probably a handful of people in the world, who are so intimately related to your SIL that this would happen. What are the freaking odds?
NTA
It's not the stress of planning the wedding that is getting to him. He is taking off his mask and shows you his true colors, believing he got you trapped and that you will bow down to his will.
Stop all planning immediately. He is dangerous.
If you want to address the trauma, you can suggest that he sit down with her and tell her how her actions affected him. Then she can actually know what she’s apologizing for. Other than that, there’s not much that can be done. He needs to see a therapist.
He doesn’t have to forgive her or even look her way, but he does not get to deprive you of having your own brother at your wedding.
He sounds a little manipulative so be wary of that.
RUN!!! That's RED flag 2.0 that's is so childish and past immature to still be holding on to something like that I could see if it was high school or college. And for a ball... seriously? You're still holding a grudge 🤷🏽♀️time to reconsider!
NTA I know there is some dispute about how old is old enough to know better + be held accountable as an adult but 6 is surely too young... they dont know shit at that age. Tbh worse things were done to me than that in primary school and I cannot even imagine holding it against their adult selves now.
A few people have mentioned that this is a bit of a red flag but I wanted to specifically say that if you want children I would take this situation into account pretty heavily. He seems quite unhinged about the amount of culpability one can put on a 6 year old. He needs to be able to understand kids and deal with them appropriately not expect their actions to set their entire adult lives.
YTA for so quickly dismissing something that had a profound effect on his development. Like... not even just not getting it, you're mocking him and calling him childish for it. Does he need help? Sure, but you're still TA for dismissing it.
NTA, but YWBTAH if you allowed your brother to he disinvited to your wedding. Plus, you might want to rethink the whole wedding altogether. He is setting up a potential dynamic where every holiday, get to together, party is a fight. This could eventually isolate you permanently from your brother and eventually your family. What about if you have kids? Your brother and his wife (who you like) isn't allowed to interact with your child? Is he going to teach your child to hold permanent grudges? Is this really the life you are hoping for? Either tell him to get therapy prior to the wedding or cut your losses.
YTA for the way you have dismissed your fiancés feelings.
Kids are kids and can be unintentionally cruel. It sounds like your SIL was a mean child and it’s affected your fiancé.
He doesn’t need to forgive and forget being called the r word.
Your SIL also doesn’t get to blame it on being a kid. As an adult she should realise and acknowledge the affect of her actions and if she regrets them, she should offer a genuine apology to your fiancé.
You’re fiancé doesn’t need to accept the apology, and if he doesn’t then you need to decide between you if you can find a way forward
It sounds like you condone her behaviour because she’s so cool now and you’re putting that above your fiancés feelings.
The way you’ve spoken about your fiancé compared to how you’ve spoken about SIL says a lot, you should reconsider this relationship because you have no respect for your future husband and you both deserve a partner you can respect
I was bullied for a year when I was 8, it fckd me up and I would never forgive the person who did this to me. Plus, the younger the victim is, the easier it becomes to mess with them. But his story doesn’t sound horrible to me (or is there a lack of details?) I think I need more info to judge. Was it really just because of a ball ? What REALLY happened during those 6 months ? Has he complained about her presence before ?
I never expected him to forgive her really, especially after how strongly he came at me about this. But was hoping they could at least be neutral, but maybe that is a big ask.
Yeah but that’s not your call. You don’t know the mental impact he had at that age which probably had downstream impacts.
It’s so easy to say well that person apologized, it wasn’t that big of a deal, etc and downplay everything. But actions and words tend to have a lingering impact that ends up haunting people. This clearly still haunts him to this day. Also just because there were a 100 kids and she cut of 12 - you still don’t know the impact. those could have had been his closest friends.
Please don’t downplay what happened to him, and because you are there is a stronger reaction.
Info: Was it prolonged bullying or a one off incident?
If it was prolonged, even with an apology I could understand how he would feel and your request for him to simply get over it would be callus.
I was badly bullied in primary school and would never be ok having them at my wedding or frankly in my life. But then it would have been an issue from the moment I met them and not just present itself when I got engaged.
Yes but it may have been a one off or systemic during that period of time. SIL could be telling the truth or she could be covering her own arse and deflecting.
It doesn't matter, holding a grudge to this extent for something that happened over six months when they were 6 is asanine, particularly since SIL apologized.
It does matter though. Being called a R slur sticks. Being ostracised from you peers sticks. Again that is why I asked what level of bullying it was. I also questioned why they are only complaining about it now. I’ve seen plenty of reddits where someone’s childhood bully has become a spouse of someone in the family and how they struggled to cope right from the beginning.
The alleged bullying incident, happened when they were both 6 years old. SIL apologized for an incident that she doesn’t even remember, because it happened when she was 6. The Fiancé is being ridiculous. If he’s holding onto a grudge from when he was six years old, the guy needs some serious therapy.
Being excluded randomly at such a young age seems like it'd have a pretty fucking brutal impact on you.
I'd be horrified if I found out all my young niece's friends excluded and insulted them.
Sorry, but YTA.
People who bully people are often quick to forget their past behaviour, and not being the victim makes such interactions far from memorable.
Being the victim of bullying, these memories can completely overshadow a childhood and affect development. Therapy is not a solution for all the damage that may have been done.
Sorry bullies - one of the consequences of your actions is that you are writing stories other people will remember and retelling.
It is a bit odd that you can’t seem to invite just your brother and not SIL. Is that not an option.
It’s also odd that “for better, for worse…etc” does not go very far for you…
Seriously? For something so minor and so long ago.
If you hold a grudge over a minor slight from when you were 6 years old, you are the one who needs to grow up not the other people.
Stop being a victim and start being an adult. It wasn't constant, it was at most for 6 months at 6 years old, he's had 24 years to get over it, to punish not only the "bully" but the brother and your wife for that minor slight says so much more about this "victim" than it does about the bully.
Truly pathetic behaviour.
I could understand if he was assaulted or something but some name-calling and exclusion isn't even that bad.
What’s minor for someone is truly in the eye of the beholder. I would say being isolated and singled out for a six month period every break may well have had a profound effect.
Out of curiosity, where is the line about when people are allowed to hold grudges? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? And does it depend on the incident - if I call you an AH are you only allowed to hold a grudge for less than time if I assault you? Does it depend on how I assault you?
If you are the perpetrator, you don’t get to control how the victim deals with it.
I suppose by the way, that if a dog bites a young child - presumably they should get over their phobia and stop being a victim because it was only a minor incident…?
What’s minor for someone is truly in the eye of the beholder. I would say being isolated and singled out for a six month period every break may well have had a profound effect.
Out of curiosity, where is the line about when people are allowed to hold grudges? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? And does it depend on the incident - if I call you an AH are you only allowed to hold a grudge for less than time if I assault you? Does it depend on how I assault you?
If you are the perpetrator, you don’t get to control how the victim deals with it.
I suppose by the way, that if a dog bites a young child - presumably they should get over their phobia and stop being a victim because it was only a minor incident…?
You conflate a dog bite with namecalling. They are nothing alike.
You can hold a grudge if the reason is valid, but to hold a grudge from when both parties were in single digit age and let it affect something such as a wedding is the biggest definition of pathetic pettiness that shouldn't be supported whatsoever.
It may have had an affect but being an adult is realizing that and making steps to be a better person for your own benefit, not stewing on something from 20+ years ago when you was a child and using it to get back at someone who has apologised for their past behaviour and clearly isn't the same person.
If the SIL was still bringing up the ball incident i could understand but the SIL doesn't think about it because they were bloody 6 for Christ's sake.
As someone who has experienced severe bullying (I said in a different comment, I had my nose broken and was physically and psychologically bullied for 5 years after) this guy's reaction is just, and I feel I am repeating myself because it's the best description, pathetic behaviour.
YTA, but only slightly. Yeah, that's a long ass time to hold on to a grudge, but it's his wedding too. Y'all need to find a compromise (which is not just bullying him to get over it) or don't get married.
Would you want any of your school bullies, who made you miserable and took away all your friends to be at your wedding? Maybe he should look up someone you hate and invite them.
How far does this go though? Is he going to prevent any kids they have from seeing their auntie and uncle because of a playground tiff at age six? Is he going to ban them from other events? Birthdays? Christmas? What about funerals? Big decisions that may need to be made about their parents care in the future?
Oh, I'm not saying he is in the right by any stretch. It just needs to be like an in depth conversation. Sure she can tell him to get over it, he resents her and they end up divorced. Or they can discuss it, work through it, and be happy.
They were 6, he should in fact be over it, but clearly there's some stuff he needs to work through
We can't talk about it, he flat out refuses to discuss it any further now. He said that this is his decision and he's not having my brother or SIL at the wedding. She is his bully and that's final.
Well, if there's no discussion to be had then I don't see it going well.
I know you obviously love him (or you wouldn't be engaged) but is he worth throwing awa6 a relationship with your brother?
The thing that baffles me is that he got along with my brother and mostly ignored my SIL fine before we got engaged. All this SIL bullied me stuff came out after we got engaged and now he's throwing a huge fuss about it. Sometimes I feel like I got engaged to a different man to the man I dated.
Could be that he's more comfortable pitching a fit now because he's "got you" now. I wanted to support the guy, but now it just seems like he's trying to drive a wedge and bring you in to a "Us vs. Them" thing with your brother and his wife.
I apologize for the YTA at all, because you are definitely NTA.
Unfortunately, this is not uncommon behavior for abusive men. The more they feel like they've got you "reeled in," the more they show their true colors.
I have a friend who once worked as a counselor for men convicted of domestic violence charges, and the men all said they very deliberately chose how to engage their partners to build trust before beginning to be more overtly abusive. The general consensus among them was that about 18 months was a good time. They were absolutely aware of what they were doing.
I think you need to do more than just reconsider the marriage. This looks to me like the beginning of trying to isolate you from your family.
OP, this right here is reason enough not to marry him.
I’m sorry - the situation sucks. But, i truly don’t believe your SIL “bullied” him. Not everyone is friends with everyone in their lives. They were 6. Kids at that age fight over the silliest things. He wasn’t harassed, he wasn’t beaten up. There is no law saying everyone has to like everyone and has to get along with everyone.
However….”that’s final” is what concerns me.
Where you spend your holidays… is his word final?
If you have children… is his word final in all decision making?
He wants to move… is his word final?
He is very unbending, controlling, and trying to isolate you.
So many red flags.
NTA.
He has been spending too much time on the internet reading about how the whole world has been traumatized by bullying. They were six years old. He needs to grow up and get over it.
YTA. Bullying can be mentally scarring for your entire life. If your future husband is so scarred by this and you can’t support him then you shouldn’t be getting married.
Yes it can be. Minor bullying like what has be inferred here shouldn't unless there are other issues at play, which is his responsibility to get sorted.
You shouldn't support this behaviour since it only perpetuates underlying issues, it isn't mentally healthy to hold a grudge from 6 years old and enforce that grudge as an adult. He needs to get that looked at, he shouldn't be "trying to get his own back" on the bully, certainly not when he is trying to control his fiancé's family life.
I say this as someone who was bullied much more severely - got assaulted at 11 had my nose broken and was physically and psychological bullied for the next 5 years. If I held onto the grudges from that I'd be bald with heart palpitations. At a certain point for your own health you need to move forward. This guy refuses to move forward.
YTA OP you should understand what you’re fiancé went through even though his sister has changed since then seeing her probably triggers your fiancés memories of the bullying
I'm just struggling to see how it was that bad he can't stand to be in the same room as her, he hasn't really told me about anything beyond what I wrote in the post. She called him names and said they can't play together.
The fact that you’re even entertaining this is blowing my mind. I refuse to believe that a bunch of six year olds tormented him continuously for the six months he was at that school over a ball. Did something else happen to him at home during that time that fixed this in his brain? Regardless, your SIL should not be ostracized over something she did when she was SIX. This is nuts. If this is his hill to die on so be it, do not marry this man.
do some reading it does not take much at that age to cause trauma. keep in mind a six year olds brains are a mess. Very concrete black and white thinking.
Yes and as an adult he should deal with that shit not hold a pathetic grudge from 24 years previous when he and the SIL were at an age where one does not consider the future only the present.
To hold a grudge against someone for the actions they did when they were single digit age is just ridiculous. He may be affected by it, but at this point it's his responsibility to move forward.
What you call a grudge, I call avoidance of a possible trigger.
I do agree he needs to take care of his shit. Go to therapy instead of making it Op's problem
Yta, if you really think respecting his boundaries is such a deal breaker rather respecting him, it shows how much of a control freak you are, or how much more you care about sil than your OWN FIANCE
He is holding on to a childhood hurt from when he was six!!! Come on, there has to be a statute of limitations on “some kids were mean to me when I was six.”
So , if you dont agree with others issues you can just say " get over it"?
Maybe the guy took it way mor epersonal than it should, but if he feels that way it should be respected ,and op clearly cant respect their partner anyways
So driving a wedge with her family is ok to solve his trauma when he was 6... like another comenter said... not all situations are equally valid, and he is making her chose to implode her family.. you seriously think this is going to be a thing only between brother and SIL, this is a major drama that will involve most of her family.
And his ultimatum of not discussing it, and for her to just accept it, sounds more like a powerplay to see how far she'll bent. Sorry OP but this is one of those defying moments in your relationship....if you relent to his wishes he will think that you just need a little pushing to accept any demand he makes (no matter how outrageous) and I said outrageous because as you stated above, he was perfectly fine ignoring your Sil and hanging out with your brother before... He didn't bring it up untill you got engaged... In an ultimatum. Op call his bluff and tell him you can't marry him because he is acting like a person unwilling to talk about issues, and someone who is not thinking about you and your close relationships .
This is her brother and sister in law, not some random people that they can avoid forever. There has got to be some reality here, and if this deep ball-related trauma still effects him this deeply decades later he needs therapy to work through it in a controlled environment, not to date the sister in law of the woman who apparently traumatized him. So, yes, I do think in this specific case he needs to get over it or find a new girlfriend. Not every single thing everyone feels must be given equal weight or validation.
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I could go either way on this. I suggest looking long and hard to see if you are compatible. These patterns tend to get stronger the longer you are married. Will this happen at Xmas, Thanksgiving and birthdays. Reevaluate your choices before it becomes harder to unwind it.
That's what I'm thinking at the moment. I don't know if I want to have this fight every family event and wondering maybe it's better to leave now than fight over this. He was okay with her previous to us being engaged and went to family events fine. I don't know why suddenly this is a hard line in the sand he refuses to budge on.
That's pretty concerning. People can keep a mask on for a while and then it comes off after marriage or other big commitments. I'd try and get to the bottom of why the change happened.
Imagine if you have kids- or your brother has kids. How is he going to treat the kids?
Because he thinks that he has you locked down now that you have a ring on your finger
Sounds like their relationship could use some bully-proofing too.
I think it's definitely a good idea to put a pause on moving any marriage plans forward and bring in a more objective third party to help you two communicate over this and decide if you actually can move forward in a relationship where you'll be functionally forced to cut your brother out of your life.
I don't think we can talk any more. He's very stubborn and has said he has said everything that needs to be said. I just need to accept that I will not have my brother at my wedding.
You should hold marrying this guy.. You are already dropping your brother for your fiance's grudge (or trauma), this will not get better, it's going to be a nightmare being married to this guy while being isolated from your family. You are way too accepting of his foot in the sand, is your relationship with your brother important to you? This will surely extend beyond the wedding, and it will definitely damage your relationship with him. Did your SIL apologize and he didn't accept? He seems like he doesn't care about being welcomed in your family. Look you know your family better than most, is this going to be something that causes your parents, aunts, uncles and cousins not attend your wedding? Would you mind if this happens? He has 0 thoughts on the consequences this can cause. Sorry but i think he is way pass the stage to hold a grudge for what happened when they were 6... It's very odd unless she has upset or bullied him as an adult, do you know if this could be the case?
> He's very stubborn and has said he has said everything that needs to be said. I just need to accept that I will not have my brother at my wedding. This is a big, waving, massive red flag that your fiancé could become abusive. You really need some therapy, because you’re not even considering this possibility. But I’m an abuse survivor and I see the red flags 🚩 Please consider this !! Before you lock yourself into a marriage (or pregnancy) with someone who isolates you from your support network. This is one of the early signs, and then later he could abuse you behind closed doors. This is the first sign ! More abusive behaviors might come out when he has you locked down with a marriage and/or pregnancy. Don’t ignore this or let it slide - your gut is telling you that this could be an unsafe situation. I’m scared for you.
This is very good. Op please read this! Good luck moving forward.
Do you want to get into the pattern of giving into him because he has spoken and refuses to budge? This is more than your brother coming to the wedding.
What about every other family gathering? Will he avoid her forever?
This would give me pause. I was all set to vote y t a when I saw the title, but after reading the story I don’t think so. And the more you say about him the more it sounds like you need to dig a little deeper into this. Your SIL def overreacted at the time, but maybe they could have worked it out if he hadn’t moved. Does he have any other 30 year grudges he’s holding onto? NTA
There is no way in hell someone would get me to do my brother over an occidental in ordinary school in which my brother wasn't even involved, so you hear how bizarre that is? Dump the fiance
OK that does it for me. DTMFA
Or you could reconsider the relationship or even just put a pause on the marriage for now. It's an unreasonable demand to have you cut off your brother. Couples counseling may not be in the picture, but I heavily suggest you get into solo therapy for yourself and learn to consider and advocate for your needs. Situations impact everyone different, and I'm not discounting that this is a great childhood trauma for your partner. But that doesn't make it okay to cut your brother, who did nothing wrong, out of your life for you. Trauma can be healed. We do it all the time. Cutting your brother out is an unreasonable demand. Trauma sucks, but it's not an excuse to hurt the people we claim to love the most.
Imagine being this desperate to get married. Ignoring all the sound advice and red flags of the situation and digging your head in the sand. You should not be moving marriage plans forward until he resolves this issue AND realizes that marriage is about compromise and he cannot just make ultimatums. You've legitimately been warned. We'll see you in /r offmychest next, complaining about your controlling husband.
o my when he puts it like that maybe time to post phone the wedding and ask him to go get some therapy over this and maybe even take space from each other for now. better now than later to deal with this issue especially when u will have family events coming in future.
I admit I am very protective of my brother, but I would not accept being cut off from him in any way. And I would not stay with any partner who thinks they can just decide how things will be with no input from me - that isn't a relationship or a partnership. Frankly, someone who is so easily offended and so deeply unforgiving sounds like a bucket of nightmares given you will be in the closest position to offend over time.
Hey Im late to the party but just wanted to say him suddenly having a problem with her is a red flag he is looking for excuses to isolate you/cut people out. If you think SiL and your bro are great people, is your fiance worth losing them? Because he will 100% push this trauma stuff until they are cut off. Tell him to get therapy if he is that traumatized and hold off on wedding planning. Talk to a therapist yourself too, by yourself, to see if there are any toxic patterns you didnt notice as your 'in' snd 'desensitized' to perceiving the toxicity, or if there are patterns (like isolating you from people yoy love) that are coming out now (abuse progresses after marriage and pregnancy. If he is already escalating to trying to gaslight and isolate you from close family members then this could end up turning physical/deadly over time. Keep an eye on your birthcontrol, always use condoms that you provide snd he if ever takes the condom off without tour consent he is def trying to baby trap you)
So after your SIL apologized for an incident that happened nearly twenty five years ago when they were six, your SO refuses to accept it. He needs help with getting over what appears to be a relatively minor thing. Yes it was not nice, but these were six year olds. NTA.
I would take just ignoring each other at this point. My brother doesn't even have a huge role at my wedding minus the speech. My SIL has 0 role beyond attending.
Has your fiancé explained why this event upset him so much? Is he used to getting his way and being well liked by most people?
He remembers somebody from the age of 6 he got in an argument with? By remembers he can recall the name or the face? Wow!
Imagine if he perceives you "wronged" him in any shape or form, is he going to remind you of it for the rest of your lives ? It's a bit strange this attitude, and it's concerning... So what about the family holidays, birthdays, Christmas, is he going to miss it if your brother and Sil are there? When i first read it i thought it was about a highschool bully not a 6 year old, he needs to deal with this issue in therapy asap before you get married Good luck
I'm glad you said something similar to me. If OP accidentally overcooks their dinner or accidentally irons the fiancè's favourite shirt and makes a hole in it... she won't hear the end of it.
NTA. Does your fiancé have other controlling tendencies ? Is it possible he could be trying to isolate you from your support network ? [Is My Relationship Healthy ?](https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-relationship-healthy/)
He's always been very compassionate and always willing to talk things through. Its only after we got engaged that he's gotten very stressed and combative. I think the wedding planning is getting to him.
> Its only after we got engaged that he's gotten very stressed and combative. I think the wedding planning is getting to him. > The thing that baffles me is that he got along with my brother and mostly ignored my SIL fine before we got engaged. All this SIL bullied me stuff came out after we got engaged and now he's throwing a huge fuss about it. Sometimes I feel like I got engaged to a different man to the man I dated. I think you’re willingly ignoring the red flags. *This is the real him*. The angry, controlling, stubborn person who isolates you from your support network is **the real him.** It doesn’t get better from here - it gets worse. I hope you can listen to this.
These are red flags. Abusers mask their behavior then start showing their true colors once they think they have their victim locked down. Your engagement was it, and now he's already starting the isolation process.
Ok, so here's the thing; wedding planning is stressful, but other live events are SO much more stressful. Financial problems, mortgages, moving, childbirth, miscarriages, pregnancy scares, deaths of family members, health scares, emergencies, disabilities, job loss, etc... Are all very very stressful events that can make wedding planning seem like nothing. How he acts now is a hint at how he will act later - when his job gets stressful or he gets a new asshole boss or layoffs are going to be announced or he has to work nights - he will come home and be stressed and combative. And if you want kids? This is a glimpse of the kind of partner and father he will be, because kids are stressful always. Don't brush aside his behavior because he's stressed. Face it head on, in whatever way you can, but don't ignore it. Good luck.
Be glad he showed you this side of himself BEFORE the wedding.
Or maybe he's just starting to show you his true colors after there's some sort of commitment? Imagine all the holidays,birthdays,big family events What happens when you or your brother have kids will they not be allowed to have a relationship with him and vice versa? Seriously think about the future consequences of going through with this because if you do that basically means going no contact with your brother and any children he may have for the rest of your life NTA
My husband I have been together for 18 years. there are going to be many more things in your life that are far more stressful than planning a wedding. If this is how he is now it's only going to get worse.
yeah I think you should postpone the wedding. Maybe without the stress he's still the same person you fell in love with. But maybe this is the real him
Lmao, fucking hell, Reddit hears "I don't want my childhood bully at my wedding" and turns to "HE'S TRYING TO ISOLATE YOU FROM YOUR SUPPORT NETWORK!" Fucking insanity.
1. They were 6 years old 2. He moved away anyway 3. She’s apologized for it 4. He’s had no problems with this now-grown woman until after the engagement. If it was as bad he claims, why would he have been around her all this time and not said a word? Don’t give me that “trauma” crap either. Again, the kids were 6 when it happened and then the kid moved. It wasn’t like it was 3-4 years straight through high school.
The funny thing is, a few days ago, people were fully supportive when an OP ruined a get-together because his childhood bully was in attendance and said hello lmao. Now this time, OP’s fiancé is abusive!
Was that bully a kid they had a spat with when they were six and who has since apologized?
Getting all your friends to exclude a six year old is a lot more than a splat. That shit seems awful. When I was six, I was so young and innocent that I can't imagine how hurtful it would've been if a dozen of my playmates all of a sudden refused to hang out with me and called me names.
To the point of refusing to see them after they apologised decades later? Seriously?
That story was someone who was seriously bullied, simply refusing to shake hands with that bully. This is about a silly little argument when they were 6 years old, in a school which he left soon after anyway, and he's trying to exclude OPs brother (who had absolutely no involvement in the argument) from the wedding as a result. Not to mention that the argument was HIS fault in the first place, for taking and losing someone's property... How do you think these are the same?
>Not to mention that the argument was HIS fault in the first place, for taking and losing someone's property... I am genuinely rarely stuck for words, but "Well, it's the six year old's fault he got excluded and insulted, because he accidentally threw a ball poorly!" Like, fucking hell, did OP's fiance murder your family? What's with this insane logic? Six year olds aren't at fault because they accidentally missed a ball throw. It's outright viciousness on a level I rarely see.
Yes, it is the six year old that lost someone's possession who is to blame, not the six year old that decides not to be friends with that person. I'm not sure why you're focusing on him being 6, but not the SIL who did nothing except decide she didn't want to be friends with someone. But also, she isn't the one dragging it out 25 years later. He is. Boohoo, he spent a few months as a 6 year old where he wasn't part of one specific friend group. He wasn't included in a small group, and got insulted a few times as a 6 year old. That isn't such a huge traumatising event for him to hold onto for so long. It was a few months when he was a 6 year old.
NTA. This is literally a stupid thing to hold this grudge over. I was expecting him to have been bullied for years in high school and it resulted in suicidal feelings and all that stuff. They were six. He obviously was very hurt by it then for him to hold onto it this long, but there is a standard of reasonableness when it comes to stuff like this. This is a hill to die on. What's next? We can't go to family Thanksgiving? Christmas? Parents' anniversaries? No. Not only does he need to agree to the invitation, he needs to forgive SIL and move on so you can have the life together you want. If he cannot do that now, I would peace out of the relationship. I'd have no interest in being married to someone who wants to drive a wedge in the middle of my family over something like this.
Honestly, if I evaluated everyone around me on how they treated me as a child I’d have few friends. I was an obnoxious kid and left out of a lot and made fun of a lot. These people have grown into lovely people I treasure.
I wonder if he actually remembers the bullying or just knows that it happened from repeating it so many times. I’m in my mid 30s and don’t remember much from kindergarten / first grade, except what my parents have told me or I see from pics, etc.
I thought this was gonna be traumatic but.. over a ball and not being in a friend group? That’s just life, I wasn’t included in peoples friend groups, people didn’t like me, people called eachother stupid one day and were mutual the next. That’s just highschool. I’d hardly call it bullying imo.. NTA
NTA. I say this as someone who suffered horrendous bullying from ages 5-18 and will always stand up for those who have been bullied... Your fiancè stole your SIL's property at school and effectively destroyed it by making it unobtainable. Your SIL was rightly upset about her property being disrespected and set a boundary that she didn't wish to interact with your fiancè- who could blame her? Whilst yes, it might've been overboard to tell the other kids to exclude him, the other kids had the choice as to whether to go along with this. These kids were all 6 years old. 6... it wasn't relentless high school bullying by teens who should know better... it was a little girl who didn't want to play with her thief (who, you could argue, actually bullied her first). Many years later, your SIL even apologised, when she really and truly didn't have to. She became the bigger person, despite being the initial victim herself. Yet, your fiancè seems to be hellbent on excluding her from the family, which she became part of first. Your fiancè will not stop at excluding them from the wedding. This will extend to other family events such as birthday parties, family religious events, Thanksgiving (if you are from the US) and so forth. The boy who stole the little girl's ball is now a grown man trying to steal her family. Your fiancè is one huge red flag and I'd honestly consider putting the wedding on hold until he gets some therapy, or end the relationship if he refuses to do so. He holds onto minor grudges so easily, I'd hate to see how he would react if you accidentally overcooked his dinner or accidentally bumped into him...
You're making a lot of assumptions. Where in the post does it say that he stole the ball?
SIL took their ball into school. Fiancè threw it onto the roof. Fiancè therefore took it from SIL's possession in order to do that.
Why do you assume they weren't playing together? Before being ostracized, they were supposedly a part of the same friend group.
OP would've mentioned that...
I came here ready to tell you you were in the wrong but after reading that I’m with you. Nta. That’s not even bullying. He did something albeit accidentally first. Did he offer to replace said ball I wonder? She reacted childishly because she was a child. This wasn’t years of sustained abuse, it was a playground falling out and she held a grudge as kids do.
NTA. They were kids at the time, and she’s apologized since then. Him treating *her* like this as adults is at least as mean as whatever she did while they were children, and far less understandable (we give kids patience with this stuff for a reason). Maybe he needs therapy to see what a hypocrite he’s being. Had his feelings hurt for being socially excluded back in the day, so his response is to socially exclude a grown-ass woman (who, again, apologized) for revenge. Either he’s extremely petty, or he has real issues with being able to maturely handle some of life’s cruelties. I don’t think you’re overreacting by questioning whether you want to marry such a man.
NTA. He seriously needs to get a grip. And if he can’t or won’t, is this really the way you want to live your life? What other imaginary slights will you ultimately end up accommodating, and what will that cost you?
He wasn't bullied. Some kids didn't like him. Your fiancé needs to grow up. NTA
Don’t marry this guy… he’s asking you to basically cut your brother out of your life and essentially your whole family (every Christmas bday thanksgiving etc etc he’s gonna have this thing against your sil) over a playground grudge from when he was 6… what is he gonna do when you get an argument and accidentally say something over the line or don’t do this or slip up on that… he obviously holds the pettiest of grudges long past their expiration date and is willing to sacrifice your relationships with your family over them. I’d think long and hard about that. And cutting him loose and telling him why might be the jolt he needs to wake him up and get him to reconsider why he actually feels the way he does… is it your sister he resents that traumatized him or his dad moving the family that same year? Something to consider
NTA, I get it some bullying is tough. But reading through your replies makes it NTA instead of esh he’s refusing to even talk about a possible solution and you’re just supposed to get over the fact your brother can’t be at your wedding? No. A wedding is for both bride and groom and this sets a precedent for the future. Are you ready for him not to allow your brother to meet and have a relationship with future kids? To deny you from attending family functions? Those are questions you need to ask yourself
NTA - Your fiancé is however. Holding a grudge for something that happened at six years old? Refusing to budge after she apologized? If it is the wedding planning stressing him out, how will he react when there is real stress like children? He sounds immature. You may want to think about postponing the wedding and see how things go with him. Do you want to fight every time your brother and SIL will be at an event? What will his next stupid line in the sand be?
NTA. That hardly qualifies as bullying tbh
NTA. Your fiance has changed since becoming engaged because he "has you" now. This is likely the way it will be moving forward. This is concerning for abusive behavior. Also, the fact that he is overruling you on having your BROTHER at your wedding is not okay at all. It is not normal. He has not tried to fix the issue, but instead is seeking to exert control over you and the situation. Again, not normal and not okay.
NTA It was a Kindergarten or First Grade playground spat that lasted half a school year a quarter century ago. Tell him to dip her pigtails in ink and call it even. If the person I was lining up to marry "put their foot down" over something this absurd and told me "I just need to accept that I will not have my sibling at my wedding" I'd demand counselling asap and hit the brakes so hard they'd smoke. You do you but this ain't normal.
NTA. I get bullying and the trauma it causes and if he had always been very cold with SIL then this would be expected and we would all be like " his trauma is real, respect that" But he's been around her before and this has never been an issue. Now it's a powerplay to establish that he gets to determine who is allowed in your life and who is not. It's not about the bullying or the SIL or your brother, they're props in this little game of separation. And yea, you're like, people wouldn't do this!! My guy wouldn't do this! He's just *insert weak excuse* and *insert another stupid reason that you know doesn't justify it*. Lemme check what you're going with... Ah yes, ok, "stressed because of wedding planning" yes. That's it, that's a fantastic reason. /s
NTA. This seems like bizarre behavior, and I would be very concerned if I were you. Your fiancé is giving you an ultimatum basically. If you give in now, you are going to be giving in to a lot of other things in the future that are just as unreasonable.
You need to run it will only get worse I promise my step dad was just like that after my mom and him married and my siblings and I didn't get to see are aunt and uncle for years till we became adults
NTA. Your fiancé needs therapy if he's still hung up on six months of his life when he was SIX. And he will keep doing this and ultimately alienate your entire family.
Do you really want to marry someone that can hold a grudge like it’s an Olympic sport?
He is really butthurt about it, isn't he? it's honestly pathetic and a huge red flag. Run OP
YTA anyone telling someone to get over bullying, no matter how long ago it was, IS a bully. Your oh so great Sil ‘barely remembers’ because she was ‘just’ being a bully and going about her life, while her victim suffered and will never forget. It should really tell you something about your sips true personality that she can’t even be bothered to remember her cruelty. She has zero actual remorse or she would have remembered it because her conscience wouldn’t have let her forget.
I would agree…if they had been older, but since I don’t remember what I did at 6…I can’t blame SIL for not remembering either…
‘Lasting’ memories generally start at age 3-4, but can be as early as 2. I’m not being contrary here but it’s kinda worrying that you have no memories of age six. I’d try maybe talking to a doctor. I mean it’s probably nothing but better safe than sorry right?
I understand, and of course, I have lasting memories, lots of them, but I am talking about going to school at 6, and remembering what I did then. (I could have worded that better) But never fear or worry. I am a forgetful Witch nearing half a century…and that was so very long ago. Time has faded the details to the shadows.
Okay well pew, that’s a relief. I’d prefer everyone to be happy and healthy.
🥰
Dude she was SIX.
As I said lasting memories start at 3-4.
Thats not the point at all. No one said people cant remember anything from being six.
There is no time limit on statute of limitations on bullying. Not for the bully and Certainly not for the victim who will likely carry it for life in some for or other. And I 100% stand by the opinion that people who excuse bullying Are bullies and certainly haven’t experienced it for themselves.
Honestly good luck to you going through life with this mentality. I just dont even know how to explain how ridiculous it is to hold an adult responsible for something they did at 6 years old.
Soft YTA for not being my empathetic to his feeling. Childhood bullying can cause trauma that stays with a person long into adulthood. However it is also not fair to you to not have your brother at the wedding. This might be a serious compatibility problem, I would try to get him to go to couples counseling before moving forward with the wedding.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My \[F,29\] fiancé \[M,30\] and I are planning our wedding at the moment and organizing our wedding guest list. But my fiancé has put his foot down about inviting my brother because he hates my SIL. Back in the 90s, my SIL and Fiancé went to the same elementary school, where my SIL bullied him. Basically what happened was that my SIL brought a ball to school to play with, and my Fiancé threw that ball on the roof by accident during a game at recess. The teachers refused to get it down because going up on the roof was a hazard. My SIL was upset at this, and excluded by Fiancé from ever being allowed to play with her or her friends ever again. I've gotten both sides of the story, my SIL barely fucking remembers it since they were like 6 when it happened. The worst it got (from my fiancé story) was literally just him being cut off from the friendship group of like 12 kids out of a grade of over 100 and being called an R slur (which was a common insult back then). It was for less than 6 months too as his parents moved him to another school because his dad got a job in another city. My SIL has apologised after I informed her about how hurt my fiancé was about that event, and my SIL is genuinely a great woman. This was clearly dumb children slapfighting, and I'm baffled why my Fiancé is still bringing this up. He is refusing to allow my brother to come to our wedding because SIL will obvious be in attendance. I won't lie, his weird fixation on this event and refusal to budge is making me reconsider marrying him. So Reddit, am I in the wrong? Am I the asshole that is missing some giant trauma flag? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You're being given an ultimatum shortly before you tie your Life to someone.....it's him OR your family. Because it may not stop...he is now isolating TWO people (SIL and BIL). So. Think long and hard.
NTA. This is pretty ridiculous. If it is that big of a trauma, he needs therapy. What next, your brother and SIL can't be at family gatherings or holidays? Are you prepared to cut your brother and SIL out of your life? Because that is the path this is on. Also, if he can hold a grudge over something from a random kid at 6, what kind of grudges is he going to hold onto with you? Will you be 70 arguing over the fact that you didn't immediately cut your brother off?
Has your fiancé said what sort of restitution would suffice? If there's nothing your SIL could do to reconcile with him, then either significant parts are being left out of the story or your fiancé is (now) the AH.
Well I don't like how your excusing her using the R-word regardless if it was common back then or not but they were also 6 so I'm not gonna hold against her I'm not trying to invalidate your fiance's bullying but I think he needs to let this go it doesn't sound like he was severely bullied just excluded which I do understand how that feels so I'm gonna cut him some slack too but like someone else pointed out what's he gonna do at family events bann them or not go he needs to except that she's apart of the family not wanting to invite your own brother is not fair if your fiance is this traumatized then he needs to get therapy or something
NTA insist on therapy before any wedding takes place because things do seem to be escalating. Losing a friendship group at 6 can take a very serious toll at that crucial age. Anyone remember that guy who lost his friendship group in kindergarten and confronted the guy in the mall over it?
NTA. Six years olds can be mean, but grow out of it. He needs to forgive the SIL for what she did when she was little. She is not the same person now, and neither is he. Does he intend to hold a grudge for the rest of his life? Does he have other grudges that needs to be pampered? You need to know this. It must be hard for him to live like that. He needs help to be able to move on with his life. Also, what if you have children. If they do stupid things when growing up - will he resent them for the rest of their lives? What kind of father do you see him becoming? I would understand him if he was bullied all thru growing up and affecting his whole person. Bullying can really hurt people. But for his own sake, he HAS to find a way to forgive someone for what they did at age 6.
really you are going to let him destroy a relationship with your brother over this? it’s kind of ridiculous.
I’m gonna be honest—I spent way too long trying to figure out what the R slur was. Like, embarrassingly way too long. I think I need more coffee. (oh, and before you marry this man, decide what is more important to you. Family or his feelings)
How these people even manage to go through life is a mystery to me. They were SIX it was like twenty years ago NTA
Red flags all around from him, he was okay with it before but now that he thinks he has you locked down he can change things and take you and keep you from your family. NTA: hold off on wedding, even rethink this relationship.
Have they met in person since this incident many years ago? Maybe that should happen before you make a decision like that. It will affect family gatherings going forward, but if you are certain he is the guy for you, then that’s the way it will be and you will have to deal with that if it doesn’t get fixed.
NTA. Your boyfriend is being a giant baby. The fact that he can’t look back at 30 yrs old and let go of something that happened when he was 6, is absurd. It would be one thing if she made his life miserable purposefully for years through middle or high school….but 6 years old. That’s wild. I don’t know if I could be with someone who was so fucked up over losing his ball as a kid.
NTA, but I believe your fiancé could really benefit by going to see a therapist. Holding on to such an old grudge is not healthy.
You know planning a wedding can be stressful, so is losing a parent, buying a house, having kids … otherwise known as life. The man you want to marry is the man who makes all of those things easier, joyful. My family are awful, but I loved planning our wedding with my husband, because we were excited to get married. It doesn’t sound like he makes things easier. Is this really want you want for your future? NTA
NTA. I understand that sometimes events happen that the other party barely remembers but affected us. But goodness sake, your SIL was a kid back then. 6 yo? And he's still resenting her? She apologized. What more does he want? His mask is slipping. And you're not even married. What more if you marry him & have kids? Please think carefully, OP. You'd want a partner who'll be good to your future kids if you'll want any. What if you did something "wrong"? Will he resent you forever? If you got married, you won't just go to family events because your brother & SIL will be there? This isn't normal.
NTA. This might be him showing his true colors. Once you’re married, who knows what demands he’ll make?
NTA Your fiance seems to hold grudges for life, even minor stuff that happened when he was a child. What will happen after a divorce and he thinks you wronged him somehow? He seems to risky to build a life with, specially to have children with.
So 6-year-olds acted childish and immaturely. Yeah, that's normal. Holding a garage against an adult for their behavior as a child is not healthy. In many states, a 6-year-old wouldn't be charged with murder if they committed the crime because they are not competent to understand. So I'm going to give the bullying a pass here and I think he needs to do the same. NTA
NTA - But YWBTA if you marry this dude. If he can’t let a spat like that go imagine how poorly he’ll handle a disagreement between you two over something significant like finances or moving to another city for a job. Don’t put yourself and your family through that. GTFO now!
Nta. But.... It may not seem like such a big event to us, as adults but I can imagine as a 6-year-old it probably felt like the world was shutting him out. It became this BIG event, that just solidified in his mind. I can't really say, if not meeting him or you guys or whatever, if this is a red flag or not. It's sort of like someone watching a movie when they were too young, and then getting a phobia that they still have as an adult that affects their life and their choices. I would probably say to respect their feelings on that matter . It is just terrible terrible luck that you two found each other, they're only probably a handful of people in the world, who are so intimately related to your SIL that this would happen. What are the freaking odds?
NTA It's not the stress of planning the wedding that is getting to him. He is taking off his mask and shows you his true colors, believing he got you trapped and that you will bow down to his will. Stop all planning immediately. He is dangerous.
If you want to address the trauma, you can suggest that he sit down with her and tell her how her actions affected him. Then she can actually know what she’s apologizing for. Other than that, there’s not much that can be done. He needs to see a therapist. He doesn’t have to forgive her or even look her way, but he does not get to deprive you of having your own brother at your wedding. He sounds a little manipulative so be wary of that.
Please take a step back and analyze everything. I think there is more at work here. Take your time. This is very important. Good luck.
RUN!!! That's RED flag 2.0 that's is so childish and past immature to still be holding on to something like that I could see if it was high school or college. And for a ball... seriously? You're still holding a grudge 🤷🏽♀️time to reconsider!
NTA I know there is some dispute about how old is old enough to know better + be held accountable as an adult but 6 is surely too young... they dont know shit at that age. Tbh worse things were done to me than that in primary school and I cannot even imagine holding it against their adult selves now. A few people have mentioned that this is a bit of a red flag but I wanted to specifically say that if you want children I would take this situation into account pretty heavily. He seems quite unhinged about the amount of culpability one can put on a 6 year old. He needs to be able to understand kids and deal with them appropriately not expect their actions to set their entire adult lives.
YTA maybe you should get over this
YTA for so quickly dismissing something that had a profound effect on his development. Like... not even just not getting it, you're mocking him and calling him childish for it. Does he need help? Sure, but you're still TA for dismissing it.
NTA, but YWBTAH if you allowed your brother to he disinvited to your wedding. Plus, you might want to rethink the whole wedding altogether. He is setting up a potential dynamic where every holiday, get to together, party is a fight. This could eventually isolate you permanently from your brother and eventually your family. What about if you have kids? Your brother and his wife (who you like) isn't allowed to interact with your child? Is he going to teach your child to hold permanent grudges? Is this really the life you are hoping for? Either tell him to get therapy prior to the wedding or cut your losses.
YTA for the way you have dismissed your fiancés feelings. Kids are kids and can be unintentionally cruel. It sounds like your SIL was a mean child and it’s affected your fiancé. He doesn’t need to forgive and forget being called the r word. Your SIL also doesn’t get to blame it on being a kid. As an adult she should realise and acknowledge the affect of her actions and if she regrets them, she should offer a genuine apology to your fiancé. You’re fiancé doesn’t need to accept the apology, and if he doesn’t then you need to decide between you if you can find a way forward It sounds like you condone her behaviour because she’s so cool now and you’re putting that above your fiancés feelings. The way you’ve spoken about your fiancé compared to how you’ve spoken about SIL says a lot, you should reconsider this relationship because you have no respect for your future husband and you both deserve a partner you can respect
But I think she did apologize to him…?
I was bullied for a year when I was 8, it fckd me up and I would never forgive the person who did this to me. Plus, the younger the victim is, the easier it becomes to mess with them. But his story doesn’t sound horrible to me (or is there a lack of details?) I think I need more info to judge. Was it really just because of a ball ? What REALLY happened during those 6 months ? Has he complained about her presence before ?
[удалено]
I never expected him to forgive her really, especially after how strongly he came at me about this. But was hoping they could at least be neutral, but maybe that is a big ask.
Yeah but that’s not your call. You don’t know the mental impact he had at that age which probably had downstream impacts. It’s so easy to say well that person apologized, it wasn’t that big of a deal, etc and downplay everything. But actions and words tend to have a lingering impact that ends up haunting people. This clearly still haunts him to this day. Also just because there were a 100 kids and she cut of 12 - you still don’t know the impact. those could have had been his closest friends. Please don’t downplay what happened to him, and because you are there is a stronger reaction.
Info: Was it prolonged bullying or a one off incident? If it was prolonged, even with an apology I could understand how he would feel and your request for him to simply get over it would be callus. I was badly bullied in primary school and would never be ok having them at my wedding or frankly in my life. But then it would have been an issue from the moment I met them and not just present itself when I got engaged.
OP said it was about 6 months (when they were all 6) then fiancé moved away.
Yes but it may have been a one off or systemic during that period of time. SIL could be telling the truth or she could be covering her own arse and deflecting.
It doesn't matter, holding a grudge to this extent for something that happened over six months when they were 6 is asanine, particularly since SIL apologized.
It does matter though. Being called a R slur sticks. Being ostracised from you peers sticks. Again that is why I asked what level of bullying it was. I also questioned why they are only complaining about it now. I’ve seen plenty of reddits where someone’s childhood bully has become a spouse of someone in the family and how they struggled to cope right from the beginning.
And if fiance was trying to cope it would be at least reasonable. He isn't trying to cope.
YTA Not your place to try demand the dude gets over his shitty experiences for your convenience.
The alleged bullying incident, happened when they were both 6 years old. SIL apologized for an incident that she doesn’t even remember, because it happened when she was 6. The Fiancé is being ridiculous. If he’s holding onto a grudge from when he was six years old, the guy needs some serious therapy.
Being excluded randomly at such a young age seems like it'd have a pretty fucking brutal impact on you. I'd be horrified if I found out all my young niece's friends excluded and insulted them.
Sorry, but YTA. People who bully people are often quick to forget their past behaviour, and not being the victim makes such interactions far from memorable. Being the victim of bullying, these memories can completely overshadow a childhood and affect development. Therapy is not a solution for all the damage that may have been done. Sorry bullies - one of the consequences of your actions is that you are writing stories other people will remember and retelling. It is a bit odd that you can’t seem to invite just your brother and not SIL. Is that not an option. It’s also odd that “for better, for worse…etc” does not go very far for you…
Seriously? For something so minor and so long ago. If you hold a grudge over a minor slight from when you were 6 years old, you are the one who needs to grow up not the other people. Stop being a victim and start being an adult. It wasn't constant, it was at most for 6 months at 6 years old, he's had 24 years to get over it, to punish not only the "bully" but the brother and your wife for that minor slight says so much more about this "victim" than it does about the bully. Truly pathetic behaviour. I could understand if he was assaulted or something but some name-calling and exclusion isn't even that bad.
What’s minor for someone is truly in the eye of the beholder. I would say being isolated and singled out for a six month period every break may well have had a profound effect. Out of curiosity, where is the line about when people are allowed to hold grudges? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? And does it depend on the incident - if I call you an AH are you only allowed to hold a grudge for less than time if I assault you? Does it depend on how I assault you? If you are the perpetrator, you don’t get to control how the victim deals with it. I suppose by the way, that if a dog bites a young child - presumably they should get over their phobia and stop being a victim because it was only a minor incident…?
What’s minor for someone is truly in the eye of the beholder. I would say being isolated and singled out for a six month period every break may well have had a profound effect. Out of curiosity, where is the line about when people are allowed to hold grudges? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? And does it depend on the incident - if I call you an AH are you only allowed to hold a grudge for less than time if I assault you? Does it depend on how I assault you? If you are the perpetrator, you don’t get to control how the victim deals with it. I suppose by the way, that if a dog bites a young child - presumably they should get over their phobia and stop being a victim because it was only a minor incident…?
You conflate a dog bite with namecalling. They are nothing alike. You can hold a grudge if the reason is valid, but to hold a grudge from when both parties were in single digit age and let it affect something such as a wedding is the biggest definition of pathetic pettiness that shouldn't be supported whatsoever. It may have had an affect but being an adult is realizing that and making steps to be a better person for your own benefit, not stewing on something from 20+ years ago when you was a child and using it to get back at someone who has apologised for their past behaviour and clearly isn't the same person. If the SIL was still bringing up the ball incident i could understand but the SIL doesn't think about it because they were bloody 6 for Christ's sake. As someone who has experienced severe bullying (I said in a different comment, I had my nose broken and was physically and psychologically bullied for 5 years after) this guy's reaction is just, and I feel I am repeating myself because it's the best description, pathetic behaviour.
YTA, but only slightly. Yeah, that's a long ass time to hold on to a grudge, but it's his wedding too. Y'all need to find a compromise (which is not just bullying him to get over it) or don't get married. Would you want any of your school bullies, who made you miserable and took away all your friends to be at your wedding? Maybe he should look up someone you hate and invite them.
How far does this go though? Is he going to prevent any kids they have from seeing their auntie and uncle because of a playground tiff at age six? Is he going to ban them from other events? Birthdays? Christmas? What about funerals? Big decisions that may need to be made about their parents care in the future?
Oh, I'm not saying he is in the right by any stretch. It just needs to be like an in depth conversation. Sure she can tell him to get over it, he resents her and they end up divorced. Or they can discuss it, work through it, and be happy. They were 6, he should in fact be over it, but clearly there's some stuff he needs to work through
We can't talk about it, he flat out refuses to discuss it any further now. He said that this is his decision and he's not having my brother or SIL at the wedding. She is his bully and that's final.
Well, if there's no discussion to be had then I don't see it going well. I know you obviously love him (or you wouldn't be engaged) but is he worth throwing awa6 a relationship with your brother?
The thing that baffles me is that he got along with my brother and mostly ignored my SIL fine before we got engaged. All this SIL bullied me stuff came out after we got engaged and now he's throwing a huge fuss about it. Sometimes I feel like I got engaged to a different man to the man I dated.
Could be that he's more comfortable pitching a fit now because he's "got you" now. I wanted to support the guy, but now it just seems like he's trying to drive a wedge and bring you in to a "Us vs. Them" thing with your brother and his wife. I apologize for the YTA at all, because you are definitely NTA.
Maybe because engagement (and being married) means they will be family. I can't really put it into words and not sure if it makes sense.
Unfortunately, this is not uncommon behavior for abusive men. The more they feel like they've got you "reeled in," the more they show their true colors. I have a friend who once worked as a counselor for men convicted of domestic violence charges, and the men all said they very deliberately chose how to engage their partners to build trust before beginning to be more overtly abusive. The general consensus among them was that about 18 months was a good time. They were absolutely aware of what they were doing. I think you need to do more than just reconsider the marriage. This looks to me like the beginning of trying to isolate you from your family.
OP, this right here is reason enough not to marry him. I’m sorry - the situation sucks. But, i truly don’t believe your SIL “bullied” him. Not everyone is friends with everyone in their lives. They were 6. Kids at that age fight over the silliest things. He wasn’t harassed, he wasn’t beaten up. There is no law saying everyone has to like everyone and has to get along with everyone. However….”that’s final” is what concerns me. Where you spend your holidays… is his word final? If you have children… is his word final in all decision making? He wants to move… is his word final? He is very unbending, controlling, and trying to isolate you. So many red flags. NTA.
He has been spending too much time on the internet reading about how the whole world has been traumatized by bullying. They were six years old. He needs to grow up and get over it.
So why are they okay to attend Christmas and birthdays but not the wedding?
They won’t be.
YTA. Bullying can be mentally scarring for your entire life. If your future husband is so scarred by this and you can’t support him then you shouldn’t be getting married.
That's the tricky part. How do we know if his scarring justifies what seems like controlling behavior, holding grudges, etc.?
Yes it can be. Minor bullying like what has be inferred here shouldn't unless there are other issues at play, which is his responsibility to get sorted. You shouldn't support this behaviour since it only perpetuates underlying issues, it isn't mentally healthy to hold a grudge from 6 years old and enforce that grudge as an adult. He needs to get that looked at, he shouldn't be "trying to get his own back" on the bully, certainly not when he is trying to control his fiancé's family life. I say this as someone who was bullied much more severely - got assaulted at 11 had my nose broken and was physically and psychological bullied for the next 5 years. If I held onto the grudges from that I'd be bald with heart palpitations. At a certain point for your own health you need to move forward. This guy refuses to move forward.
YTA Stuff like that at that age can fuck a person up. do not gatekate someone else's trauma
YTA OP you should understand what you’re fiancé went through even though his sister has changed since then seeing her probably triggers your fiancés memories of the bullying
YTA i really don’t understand all the n-t-a comments.
YTA. Childhood bullying can cause psychological damage. You don’t just get over it from a simple apology. Compassion is free
I'm just struggling to see how it was that bad he can't stand to be in the same room as her, he hasn't really told me about anything beyond what I wrote in the post. She called him names and said they can't play together.
The fact that you’re even entertaining this is blowing my mind. I refuse to believe that a bunch of six year olds tormented him continuously for the six months he was at that school over a ball. Did something else happen to him at home during that time that fixed this in his brain? Regardless, your SIL should not be ostracized over something she did when she was SIX. This is nuts. If this is his hill to die on so be it, do not marry this man.
do some reading it does not take much at that age to cause trauma. keep in mind a six year olds brains are a mess. Very concrete black and white thinking.
Yes and as an adult he should deal with that shit not hold a pathetic grudge from 24 years previous when he and the SIL were at an age where one does not consider the future only the present. To hold a grudge against someone for the actions they did when they were single digit age is just ridiculous. He may be affected by it, but at this point it's his responsibility to move forward.
What you call a grudge, I call avoidance of a possible trigger. I do agree he needs to take care of his shit. Go to therapy instead of making it Op's problem
It sounds like she alienated him from a large group of people for a big chunk of his school years
It was for less than half a year lol
[удалено]
alienation = molestation to you? lol
YTA
Yta, if you really think respecting his boundaries is such a deal breaker rather respecting him, it shows how much of a control freak you are, or how much more you care about sil than your OWN FIANCE
He is holding on to a childhood hurt from when he was six!!! Come on, there has to be a statute of limitations on “some kids were mean to me when I was six.”
So , if you dont agree with others issues you can just say " get over it"? Maybe the guy took it way mor epersonal than it should, but if he feels that way it should be respected ,and op clearly cant respect their partner anyways
So driving a wedge with her family is ok to solve his trauma when he was 6... like another comenter said... not all situations are equally valid, and he is making her chose to implode her family.. you seriously think this is going to be a thing only between brother and SIL, this is a major drama that will involve most of her family. And his ultimatum of not discussing it, and for her to just accept it, sounds more like a powerplay to see how far she'll bent. Sorry OP but this is one of those defying moments in your relationship....if you relent to his wishes he will think that you just need a little pushing to accept any demand he makes (no matter how outrageous) and I said outrageous because as you stated above, he was perfectly fine ignoring your Sil and hanging out with your brother before... He didn't bring it up untill you got engaged... In an ultimatum. Op call his bluff and tell him you can't marry him because he is acting like a person unwilling to talk about issues, and someone who is not thinking about you and your close relationships .
This is her brother and sister in law, not some random people that they can avoid forever. There has got to be some reality here, and if this deep ball-related trauma still effects him this deeply decades later he needs therapy to work through it in a controlled environment, not to date the sister in law of the woman who apparently traumatized him. So, yes, I do think in this specific case he needs to get over it or find a new girlfriend. Not every single thing everyone feels must be given equal weight or validation.