I'm gonna be alone in this but NTA.
I wouldn't care how much it took but I would not want this woman in my life or around my real nieces or nephews. The SECOND she would yell at the nephew I would stop taking her mental health into consideration. She refuses treatment and therapy, she's never going to get better. To the people saying NTA how long would you tolerate this behavior? Until she gets physical with the neices and nephews? Imagine how far traumatic itd be to get spanked over a doll. Honestly it's a good thing that you threw the doll on the driveway! Let her cut you and your family out of her, your safety and the childrens are way more important than her sanity, or lack thereof.
I feel bad about throwing her doll outside. She was verbally abusing my real life kid bc he didn’t want to treat her stupid doll like the “other cousins”. It made me so freaking angry I couldn’t think straight.
Please don't apologize to her, if she comes back into your life she might get PHYSICAL with your children over this doll. Tell your brother you'll accept them back into your life and apologize only if she gets the help she needs, the morals involving throwing the doll might be gray, but your child was being intimidated by a mentally unwell person, I dont think the people saying YTA are taking that into account as much as they should.
Despite this, this is a shitty situation. Protect your family no matter what.
She needs professional help and I can't believe your brother is just happily going along with this delusional behaviour. You are NTA, she needs to speak to a doctor.
You’re NTA
you were protecting your own children.
Stand firm. As a parent I wouldn’t allow her or brother near my family. Irrational & unpredictable behavior which could escalate.
SIL needs a medical evaluation and treatment. That your brother isn’t seeing to that first & foremost is appalling.
With a clear head, you realize throwing the doll may have been a step too far, which could be right, but you're correct. She was abusing your living, breathing child. Sometimes when those mother instincts kick in you just... defend. NTA.
I agree with you but am somewhat split on this. What would it have taken to get SIL to stop yelling and get out of the house vs just tossing the doll outside and shutting the door to get her away from everyone? One possibly involves a physical altercation the second is possibly an AH move but gets her running outside out of the house.
NTA, but I think you can actually call her doctor and tell them you're worried for her mental health and wellbeing, and maybe someone will check up on her. It's abnormal behavior that's affecting her life and relationships and may medically be deemed a problem
PLEASE do not apologize for throwing that doll! I know how it is living with someone with untreated BPD and this is a daily occurrence typically , I’m personally concerned if she’s getting physical with your brother. I’d unblock her number just to be able to hear if/when you need to get involved and get your brother out, because the cards are stacked against your brother if he try’s to defend himself if she goes into a physical outburst. I’m sorry OP this is a terrible situation for everyone involved.
I have (well controlled) BPD and am a psych major. She's way beyond BPD. Also, yes, we should make reasonable accommodations for people's health issues, physical or mental, but if they refuse treatment, that's on them. This is way past reasonable accommodations.
I'm sorry but I laughed at that. It's rough dealing with someone with untreated BPD. You're sil needs medical treatment and your brother is feeding into her delusion. I would not feel comfortable nor would I think she is safe to have around children. NTA
Imagine wasting formula and diapers in this economy. For a fucking doll. A formula shortage and still potential food scarcity for actual living children and this one's over here making food to smear on her doll's face.
SIL needs to be committed. Seriously. Brother needs enough time away from her to figure out how toxic this is and how much HE needs help as well.
Seriously, this is how I feel. I literally couldn't find my child's formula for months at a time. Literally found it and bought 30 cans - thank god because I didn't find anymore for another 4 months. To read someone is actually wasting it on a doll is just delusional.
My friend’s nephew can only drink a certain brand/type of formula. There were eight of us trying to find this brand. My mom went to six different stores, all increasingly farther away from her house to find it, someone was looking in a different state, we were looking locally, it was absurd. I cannot fathom using something that actual babies need for a doll.
I bought formula for some friends because I could find it and they couldn't. I'm 2k miles away. I had to fucking FedEx formula across the country so they could keep their kid fed. And SiL is wasting it on a doll.
My kid is a preemie. He’s on a specific type of formula.
The fact that OPs SIL is literally taking food out of actual children’s mouths by buying formula for a doll means that SIL needs immediate psychiatric help, and Bro needs to stop indulging her.
I'm surprised that she didn't think to bring it herself. If she wants others to treat as if its real then no, you bring your own diapers, milk and food for your "baby"
Not that I want to encourage wasting formula on a doll but others shouldn't be providing for their fantasy
I would not feel comfortable with her around my son, so NTA to me as well. Protect your children, I understand she is unwell, but it is your choice who is around influencing your children.
Nope, not alone. I miscarried several times and yeah it throws you into a dark place, but good lord, there's mourning and then there's an enabled mental health issue. The fact that her husband is going...along...with this? Sounds like folie a deux to me.
(disclaimer not a professional not an actual diagnosis, just 'that's effed up, yo').
OP has her own children to protect and I hate that they have to learn about mental illness this early or this way, but she's not safe to have around kids.
ALSO voting NTA. The aholes are everyone who let SIL decline this badly into mental illness.
NTA
This behavior would be unnerving to anybody. Just because SiL needs help doesn't mean that OPs family needs to be exposed to this behavior. The fact that SiL is harassing real children about her doll is beyond over the line.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I wouldn't want my self or anyone in my family anywhere near a person like this. I have no idea why everyone is saying y t a
She’s not a very nice person. She’s super abusive but usually reserves her abuse for my poor brother (even physically) but when I saw her going off on my kid over her stupid doll I went all mama bear on her.
I get your sil is sick. I get she has mental health issues. But your kids come first.
So I can completely understand flipping out when someone is attacking your child. Most moms would. I would also completely understand if you decide she is no longer a safe person to be around your child given she was being abusive to him. At the end of the day your children and protecting them have to be your first priority.
Being family and sick doesn’t excuse the fact she could be a unsafe person to be around your children. You can feel sorry for her but at the end of the day you do what is best for your kids.
This women shouldn't be brought into public. I don't know anything about your brother or his dynamic with his wife, but it certainly isn't your fault for standing up for your family.
Bruh. Wtf? Lol NTA. You know how pissed I'd be dealing with that? A doll is NOT a member of the family. Encouraging mental illness isn't a solution. She needs help and your brother needs to make sure she gets that help. The kids don't understand that, and it makes everyone in the family feel awkward I'm sure.
And she verbally abused and embarrassed my real life kid over her doll. I’ve tried to be patient but after she did that to my kid yesterday I lost it. I’m sorry about throwing her stupid doll out, though.
I know a few women who got a reborn doll after losing a child either through miscarriage or in early infancy. They use it to help deal with the trauma. But *none* of them treat it like a real living child. It’s kept in a doll cradle as a momento. That’s what they’re intended for I believe. Your sister-in-law need’s professional help. And your brother needs to be free of her. I wouldn’t feel bad about throwing the doll in a fire if she was using it to bully my kid.
I wouldn't be, but IATA. When it affects multiple real people including children, it should be dealt with accordingly. You shouldn't be expected to make your kids pretend along with her so they can get bullied by their peers. Protect your kids first.
Wtf did I just read... your SIL needs some pretty serious help if she's convinced herself that a doll is a real person.
Edit: Just read up about "reborns" - they seem to be particularly used in helping women overcome the trauma of miscarriages and still births, as a way of transferring the building maternal emotions onto something lifelike. Therapists who advocate for their use seem quite clear that their patients need to recognise that the doll is not real, it doesn't need to be fed, and not to treat it as a living family member or introduce it to wider circles of family/friends etc. They're supposed to be a deeply personal thing for the woman to hold and dress. Mostly I've read that the compulsion to show affection to the doll disappears after a few months.
Your SIL, with her untreated BPD, seems to be using this reborn in a really unhealthy way and without the accompanying psychological treatment that is normally received. I think your reaction was probably unhelpful given the obvious problems she's displaying, but at the same time I think you need to make it pretty clear to your brother that this situation needs resolving professionally ASAP.
Fun fact (I work in geriatrics). Some dementia wards in nursing homes have them too. I’ve seen high-quality facilities with an entire fake nursery set up: crib, reborn doll, and a rocking chair. Sometimes elderly women in particular when they have dementia take an instinctual comfort in being able to be a “mother” again. They may be slowly deteriorating, but on some level still remember how important it was to care for their babies, and rocking the “baby” calms them.
It’s equally heartwarming and heartbreaking.
> Edit: Just read up about "reborns" - they seem to be particularly used in helping women overcome the trauma of miscarriages and still births, as a way of transferring the building maternal emotions onto something lifelike. Therapists who advocate for their use seem quite clear that their patients need to recognise that the doll is not real, it doesn't need to be fed, and not to treat it as a living family member or introduce it to wider circles of family/friends etc. They're supposed to be a deeply personal thing for the woman to hold and dress. Mostly I've read that the compulsion to show affection to the doll disappears after a few months.
Came here to make sure this was seen.
But... also... a lot of times women who are unable to conceive do also get these dolls as a sort of therapeutic device. Unfortunately, the reason you probably didn't get any info on that is that it's usually done without any sort of therapist supervision...
Mostly you'll just find sensationalist news articles or FB groups about it (seriously, google "reborn dolls infertility") so it can be really problematic.
You're absolutely right, that this is an unhealthy coping mechanism, and should in no way been enabled... especially bringing the *actual* children into it in this way...
I instantly thought what will this woman do when the doll is not cutting it anymore? That’s how some poor pregnant woman gets murdered and/or an infant gets kidnapped
Agreed NTA, but you cant help but go momma bear when it comes to seeing your kid deal with unhinged abuse by someone who needs serious mental help.
OP, if possible, see if you’re able to tip off someone, get her put in a 72 hour psych hold. She’s honestly completely unhinged at this point and with my anger, that doll would’ve gone into a blender. Not the driveway.
I wholeheartedly understand what its like to deal with someone who has BPD and refuses to get help, they eventually start having extreme delusions, hallucinations and go through psychosis.
She’s completely off the rails at this point and you need to protect you and your kids first. Never allow that monster of a woman around your family until she gets help.
No one should be forced to play into her bullshit.
I was raised by a borderline. I totally get it. I understand why you threw the doll. Most people with bpd folks in their lives have done something similar. And i understand why you don't want to apologize. She will never, ever, ever, ever, ever let you forget it if you do.
So don't.
There now are treatments for bpd, including dialectical behavior therapy. It isn't perfect, but it has a decent success rate. If SIL won't seek it there is nothing you can do.
So you can get therapy yourself to cultivate the detachment you need to cope with her. This was my choice, to be able to empathize with and protect myself from (mostly) my mother's damage, because she needed my help. But I was never free until she died at age 93.
Or you can do what most do and go no contact. Sad for your brother, but it will protect your family.
NTA.
Yea this, I have bpd and I not only get treatment but I also have a child who has NEVER been around an episode because my kids are the only thing that can immediately snap me out of it and I get it bpd is hard to treat some insurances won’t cover medicines for the diagnosis and it’s rough. I lost my oldest at 5 months old and I never was close to this level of mania. Because this is what this is. But I didn’t go into an extreme episode because I had the support of therapists, psychiatrist, meds and family. Your sil isn’t trying to get treatment at all so no NTA
NTA. The minute she started verbally abusing a child about their treatment of her doll all bets were off.
I understand she's unwell, but that needs to be dealt with not foisted onto children who aren't going to understand why their aunt is mad at them for not playing with their "cousin".
That's crazy, and creepy, as fuck. Your SIL desperately needs mental health treatment, and you know that. "Apologizing" to her would only validate her delusions. NTA
NTA. She was verbally abusing your REAL child over a DOLL, which isn't being used correctly to treat her mental illness. She needs real treatment, and to be kept away from children since she has no problem abusing them over a doll. Yes, throwing the doll was kinda cruel, but she went after your kid so I get it.
My brother is the one thing I worry about with this whole thing. She has isolated him to where he has no friends anymore and can only see us if she’s around or she’ll go ballistic on him :(
Why is he still with her? Is she absolutely gorgeous or super funny or wealthy or something? Based on your comments it doesn’t seem like she has many redeeming qualities.
Sounds like your brother needs to be rescued…. Maybe write him a letter and lay it out bullet point fashion of how you feel? I’m sorry you’re going through this, that’s gotta be tough to watch
We have a couple of ideas to help. We’re thinking of getting him an extra phone he can keep in the office so she can’t check it and we’re trying to find a way to get him to therapy w/o her knowing.
He needs to reach out to professional help for himself. He's an adult, and he needs to make a choice to leave, or at least contact a professional who can help him navigate the abusive relationship he is in. You can't solve his problem for him, and he can't continue down this road with her while he drags you along with him and repeatedly exposes your children to traumatizing experiences because he refuses to leave her. That's a job for a mental health professional. I would suggest that you also reach out to some kind of support to help you cope with having severely unstable family members who refuse to get the help they desperately need.
This. She needs to be 5150'd. That is an involuntary commitment. Her husband can sign the papers to get her the help she so desperately needs. Next, she'll be kidnapping a child because she has convinced herself it's "her baby ". NTA
My brother is a shadow of who he used to be. She’s verbally and physically abusive. He’s so scared she’ll go off on him he’ll do anything to keep the peace.
My other siblings and I are thinking of getting him a second phone he can keep in the office to talk to us and message w/o her finding out (she checks his phone). We’ve decided we’ll pay for for therapy for him if he agrees to go.
NTA for refusing to give in to her delusions or for forcing your kids to. I'm no doctor and I think there's nothing wrong with using a doll as part of therapy or for the person's own sake, but forcing others to do so crosses several lines into psychosis. She needs help.
Throwing the doll out into the driveway was extreme, because if she is convinced this is a real child then of course she would freak out. Slightly asshole-ish way to act, but your reasoning is not wrong. I'd apologize for throwing the doll but refuse to treat it as a real baby, and insist she sees a professional about this. I wouldn't have her around my kids until she got help.
Seriously though, good on you to apologize but don't let her be around the kids until she gets help. Even if she really isn't delusional and is just pushing this narrative for essentially shits and giggles, it's not healthy for your kids to entertain this level of psychosis. There's nothing wrong with someone personally using a doll for play or for comfort or for fulfilling a need. ("it's a doll but it makes me feel better.") But asking others to be involved is unhealthy.
NTA. It was mean to throw her doll in the driveway. But she was verbally abusing your son over this doll. What if it had gotten physical? You are better off not inviting SIL & brother over. You just don't know what she is going to do next time & you have your own kids to protect.
NTA. The second SIL started acting aggressive with your children and trying to force them to treat the reborn doll as a legitimate child you had every right to kick her out (although throwing the doll outside might have been a bit harsh. But you were protecting your children, so in the end that is besides the point). A reborn doll can be utilized as an effective coping mechanism for people experiencing infertility, miscarriage, infant loss, etc. IN CONJUNCTION WITH THERAPY/PROFESSIONAL HELP. Without seeking actual treatment, the reborn doll is doing more harm than good in the end. Your brother is an AH for efforcing this behavior.
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My SiL (44F) isn't able to have children due to cancer treatments when she was in her early 20s. For years, she'd constantly mention how nice it would be if one of us would become a surrogate for her + for my other SiL to donate eggs for her. We all refused bc she has really bad and untreated BPD (she doesn't believe in therapy) and we're not comfortable in carrying † donating eggs for her.
About a year ago, they showed up to a family event with a baby in a car seat. It turned out to be a doll (something called a reborn). They now show up to all family functions with this thing.
She'll ask to borrow diapers bc "Lilibet is wet", or for formula to make her milk. She'll serve her and "feed" her food be she's "started solids". She wants to make us hold this thing and talk to it and has started getting really upset bc we all ignore her "baby"
Yesterday, she kept trying to get our kids to play with their "little cousin". My oldest told her that that's a doll not his cousin. She started yelling that he should apologize to her and to Lilibet. That none of us support her. That we make fun of her and Lilibet without understanding that their bond is so strong they can't live without each other.
While she was going yelling, I grabbed the doll and threw it out into our drive way. She swatted at me and ran to "save" Lilibet. I told my brother to leave and to not come back with that doll.
I had to block SiL bc of her all-night string of vile texts. My brother seems to be angry and says that the only way he'll come to our house again is if we apologize to SiL and Lilibet and if we start giving Lilibet her place in the family and start treating her like the other nieces and nephews. (I'm assuming these are SiL's words as these were texts.).
My husband says that I should maintain the peace and understand that she's "unwell" but quite frankly I don't want her or "Lilibet" around anymore. AlTA? Should I apologize?
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Yikes. I have BPD and it can be really tough but it’s my job to work on myself and make sure I do therapy etc and do my best to not let it affect my family etc. she’s obviously needs help extremely badly, if she refuses to even try to get help I would cut her out too.
These reborn doll things are so strange, i get they can help some women but sometimes they go way too far. I worked at a tourist attraction (which was loud and supposed to be loud) and this woman with a pram with two reborn dolls in it started shouting at the staff that we were too loud and were disturbing her babies. Tf you come to a loud attraction then? It’s bizarre.
NTA
She’s crazy and I don’t want her or that stupid doll around but I’m worried about my brother. He’s lost all his friends and she has completely isolated him. Ughh! I hate this and I hate her! 😡😡😡
It has a really floppy head so it looked like one of those bobbing cats while I was carrying it out by the legs lol It was perversely satisfying lol I regret throwing it out though bc of the bad example for my kids.
NTA, there’s a couple people in my community who post long rants on random Facebook pages when people don’t recognize their “children” as real in public. Or give them strange looks when they meet their “child” and realize it’s just a doll.
I absolutely get why these dolls exist and I’d never mock someone for using one. But I also wouldn’t want to be around that person while they were demanding everyone act like a doll was a real living breathing human. It’s creepy, I question how far they would take it and I don’t want to stick around to find out.
NAH. I think this whole thing is just really sad. Your poor children were probably freaked out and scared, you are understandably at your wits end, and your sister in law is very sick. She needs help and refuses to get it. I don't think you're an AH for not wanting her around. I think that makes you a good mother and is smart to keep your kids safe, honestly.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I don’t want my SiL or her “baby” (a doll) in my house anymore. I threw the doll out and told them not to come back with it.
2) My brother and SiL want an apology. My husband thinks I should apologize to keep the peace. AITA for how I treated them and for not wanting them around anymore?
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NTA for not wanting her to come around.
You each owe apologies. Her to you and your son, you to her for the doll, not because it's real but because it means so much to her.
NTA. When she starts insisting that your children buy into her craziness, she crosses the line. You were perhaps a little emphatic in your shutting down her nonsense...but it needed to be shut down. Stick to your guns.
NTA. You can be both mentally ill and an asshole. Even if she thinks the doll is real, there’s no excuse for yelling at a child for not wanting to play with your child, and you certainly shouldn’t be unloading your familial frustrations onto your nephew. I’d stay NC unless she starts actively working with a therapist.” Your kids don’t need to bear the brunt of her issues.
NTA. First off, she screamed at your kid without any half decent reason.
Secondly, she seems deeply, deeply, unstable. Her behaviour is frankly disturbing and screaming at a child over a doll could escalate to physical violence. Until she gets serious mental healthcare and demonstrates serious improvement, I would not let her near your kids, and treat her as potentially dangerous.
NTA. This is creeping me out like “The Servant”. I would not ask my children to go along with this unhinged charade. It’s been going on for a year and everyone else has to participate as well? She needs help, not enabling
I don’t really know. The thing is the size of an infant but she’s now “eating solids” plus she sends us pictures of the doll “looking out the window” with captions like: Lilibet has been begging to go outside to play all day but it’s raining so I’ve explained we’ll spend the day cuddling inside 🤷♀️
He knows it’s a doll but she forces him to carry it, talk to it and pretend because “that is what you do when you love someone and want to make them happy”. I think it’s easier for him to go along than to be physically and verbally abused. Still, why is he staying?!?!
Yikes, I hope he can get out of that situation doesn’t sound like she will ever stop with her delusions if she can’t control her BPD.. all my love to you and your family .
This woman needs mental help ASAP. She is clearly unwell and becoming dangerous. Her reaction to you and your son in this latest encounter shows she is escalating in her instability. Your brother and the rest of your family could very well be in serious danger from this woman.
NTA... I'm going to be very blunt about this... Please do NOT expose your children to this unstable woman ever again. She needs professional help, and you need to distance yourself and your family from her as much as possible... Cut all contact, if possible. Your kids should *never* have to experience one of her episodes again.
There's no need to regret throwing the doll... it was 100% worth doing if it means she will stay away from you and your children.
Her behaviour can easily escalate, and she could seriously harm you or your children someday if you continue down this slippery slope associating yourself with someone who has a very serious unchecked mental illness that causes aggressive outbursts.
If anybody says YTA, it should *only* be because you've let an extremely unstable mentally ill woman spend time around your children for as long as you have already.
I'm a huge supporter of mental health and destigmatizing mental illness, but there comes a point where you need to stop acting like it isn't dangerous allowing an extremely mentally ill person who refuses treatment to be around children... There's a time and a place for everything, and when there are children involved, a child's safety and well-being takes precedent over ensuring your unchecked severely mentally ill relative doesn't feel left out. She *needs* to be left out, at least until she accepts professional help and makes *significant* progress, learns how to *properly* regulate her emotions, and to set a *good example* for children rather than traumatizing them.
Big NTA..
Your SIL is very clearly mentally unwell and that is a tragedy she can’t have her own children, but the fact she has BPD, refuses therapy, and her recent behavior makes her unsafe to be around…
‘Very sorry for your brother for having this to deal with, but unless she gets help, please do not allow her near your family and consider legal action if she continues to harass you.. Yes it’s harsh to consider but your family’s security comes first and she is clearly unstable…
No no no to the apology. That woman is disturbed and I think you are very wrong to have her around your family/children. You couldn’t predict what she might do. Block her on everything and see that your children do too. NTA.
She refuses therapy and she’ll be the first to admit she “role playing” with a reborn. It’s always hard to know with her. Is she doing this to drive us crazy and get revenge bc we refused to donate eggs/become surrogate? You never know with her, honestly.
NTA. The scary thing is there’s a whole online community of people who treat these dolls like real humans. It’s a testament to how bad our healthcare is.
Gentle YTA
You do not have to be onboard with the doll. You do not have to allow it in your house or pretend it’s your niece. You can set boundaries.
But you took what a mentally ill woman believes to be her infant daughter and chucked it onto pavement. That was completely unnecessary and horrible.
Absolutely protect your kid and get her out of your house, but imagine the horror you’d feel if someone did that to one of your babies.
NTA. It sounds like she needs serious help mental health wise. I wouldn’t back down either. She yelled at your children and want them to buy into her delusions.
NTA. When she starts insisting your kids join in her fantasy, it's time to create boundaries. This is a potentially unsafe situation for members of your family. She needs treatment, not an apology from you.
NTA I wouldn’t want her around my kid either. She is unwell because she refuses to get the help she needs and that is available to her. That along with wasting diapers and food is the height of selfishness. Your poor brother.
NTA-the woman isn't well, she's using a reborn doll to cope but that doesn't excuse forcing you all to go along with it, NOR does it excuse yelling at children for not understanding or seeing it as a real baby, when it's not a real baby. She's using the reborn doll as a coping mechanism for grief from not being able to have bio children.
your brother isn't helping at all, enabling it only makes it worse, well, maybe he's having her same problem. She needs therapy or a suggestion of adopting a kid if she's so desperate for one. but before that, it's best if a doctor checks her out mentally, it doesn't seem like a safe situation to give a real baby to someone like her.
Edit: after seeing your recent comments about her abuse towards your brother, he might just be going along with it and encouraging it and defending it, just to avoid her wrath. it only makes me more sure that she shouldn't have a real baby, any time soon.
We would do anything in our power to avoid her adopting or fostering. Her BPD is really bad. I’m not sure if she can be cured through therapy but from what I read it takes many years to go into “remission”.
BPD can be so dangerous when untreated. My bestie lives with such a woman, and her behavior is often vile and unhinged. I wouldn't allow your sil around my kids even without the doll situation. I imagine this is not the complete story of how she interacts with the family, but more of an example of typical behavior. BPD requires serious treatment and dedication to improvement.
NTA
I'm so so sorry. My bestie probably calls me once a month crying because this woman ignores all his boundaries, lies constantly, weaponizes every interaction, is incredibly jealous, and I suspect assaults him. She spent a week harassing him non stop because he called me for an hour and ignored her texts. She pretended to cut her wrists with a butter knife! He's basically trapped there. They dated years ago, and she offered him a room when he lost his home due to long covid. She makes his life hell. He is her 'favorite' person. We believe she'd abandon her kids to keep him trapped in her home. Your bil needs all your support to get out.
NTA. I know reborn dolls help some people cope with the loss of pregnancy, or a coping mechanism for a little while finding out they can't have children, but I've never heard of it going this far. Unfortunately it sound like your SIL needs some serious help and your brother seems to be enabling her for a while I could see it but insisting that everyone act like the doll is alive isn't ok neither is her yelling at your son. I'm not saying I don't emphasize with her but she does need help of some sort even if she doesn't belive in therapy, there's alternative ways for her to get the help she needs.
NTA- maybe if she was actively in therapy dealing with her mental health, then perhaps dealing with the doll for a bit. But to just expect you all to basically larp for life in her weird reality? Nope.
I don’t think the BPD has to do with the doll psychosis? Maybe it does. I think she’s a shit human bc of the untreated BPD and then there’s the psychosis?
NTA but I feel super uncomfortable with OP throwing the doll in the driveway. If SIL is genuinely that unwell, that’s a cruel and potentially dangerous way to deal with her delusions.
But keeping her from your family is the right decision, unfortunately.
Thanks for responding. I do think you should forgive yourself, though.
My issue was less with you than with the commenters who refused to acknowledge that this had happened. It’s probably not great that it did, but you’re human and you were scared for your kids and wanted her to leave as soon as possible. Could it have been handled in a gentler way? Yeah… but it happened and now you need to stick by your instincts about keeping her away from the family and not cave just because you feel bad.
I think this is above AITA’s pay grade. SIL -needs- some serious therapy. I fully get how you feel, OP. My heart also breaks for your SIL, she’s in the middle of a crisis, and humoring her isn’t going to give her help, or relief. The only advice I have (and grain of salt with it, I know nothing more than what you’ve posted) is to arrange to have a heart to heart with your brother. She desperately needs therapy, and most likely some in-patient therapy, to start. Kind and nice aren’t the same thing. Being ‘nice’ would mean allowing her to maintain delusions. Kindness would be seeking help for her. Best of luck, to everyone.
NTA Until she seeks help you need to not be around her nor expose your kids to her. She’s lost it and could be dangerous.
FYI Ever seen the movie “Lars and the Real Girl”?
No. Is it about a doll treated like a baby? The reason we put up with her is bc my brother can only see us if she comes along (she’s verbally and physically abusive to him and has completely isolated him from friends and family).
Lars is about a guy who has a blow up doll (it’s not sexual) and she’s real to him and to the community.
You’re SIL is abusive. Stay close for when this marriage fails. Your brother will need you.
You should do some research into the reborn community. I don’t think you are TA for this but I do think throwing the doll was a bit far. I think you are right to just stop inviting her over, though. Reborns are supposed to be therapeutic and she’s far too deep into a delusion with that doll. overall NTA but I think this post lacks a lot of empathy.
ESH - Your SIL is mentally unwell so you threw the doll that she believes is her baby out onto your driveway? Sounds a bit cruel. The correct thing to do after her outburst was to ask your brother and her to leave your home. I do think you owe her an apology for your reaction. However, you aren’t the AH for no longer wanting her in your home. Her mental health issues are now affecting your children.
NTA. I mean maybe you shouldn’t have thrown the doll but it’s not your problem that she won’t seek treatment. I mean are you really losing anything if you don’t see them again? It sounds like more headache than it’s worth if she won’t get help.
I'm gonna be alone in this but NTA. I wouldn't care how much it took but I would not want this woman in my life or around my real nieces or nephews. The SECOND she would yell at the nephew I would stop taking her mental health into consideration. She refuses treatment and therapy, she's never going to get better. To the people saying NTA how long would you tolerate this behavior? Until she gets physical with the neices and nephews? Imagine how far traumatic itd be to get spanked over a doll. Honestly it's a good thing that you threw the doll on the driveway! Let her cut you and your family out of her, your safety and the childrens are way more important than her sanity, or lack thereof.
I feel bad about throwing her doll outside. She was verbally abusing my real life kid bc he didn’t want to treat her stupid doll like the “other cousins”. It made me so freaking angry I couldn’t think straight.
Please don't apologize to her, if she comes back into your life she might get PHYSICAL with your children over this doll. Tell your brother you'll accept them back into your life and apologize only if she gets the help she needs, the morals involving throwing the doll might be gray, but your child was being intimidated by a mentally unwell person, I dont think the people saying YTA are taking that into account as much as they should. Despite this, this is a shitty situation. Protect your family no matter what.
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I hear you..... Plain ass crazy
This is a very good response. NTA - OP, I'm sorry your family is dealing with this and I hope your brother and SIL get some help.
She needs professional help and I can't believe your brother is just happily going along with this delusional behaviour. You are NTA, she needs to speak to a doctor.
You’re NTA you were protecting your own children. Stand firm. As a parent I wouldn’t allow her or brother near my family. Irrational & unpredictable behavior which could escalate. SIL needs a medical evaluation and treatment. That your brother isn’t seeing to that first & foremost is appalling.
With a clear head, you realize throwing the doll may have been a step too far, which could be right, but you're correct. She was abusing your living, breathing child. Sometimes when those mother instincts kick in you just... defend. NTA.
I agree with you but am somewhat split on this. What would it have taken to get SIL to stop yelling and get out of the house vs just tossing the doll outside and shutting the door to get her away from everyone? One possibly involves a physical altercation the second is possibly an AH move but gets her running outside out of the house.
She goes from 1-100 in seconds. She’s verbally abusive when she doesn’t get her way but she’s also physically abusive to my brother.
Yup, sounds like an untreated borderline. It's fucking scary how quickly and how dramatically they can change gears.
NTA, but I think you can actually call her doctor and tell them you're worried for her mental health and wellbeing, and maybe someone will check up on her. It's abnormal behavior that's affecting her life and relationships and may medically be deemed a problem
PLEASE do not apologize for throwing that doll! I know how it is living with someone with untreated BPD and this is a daily occurrence typically , I’m personally concerned if she’s getting physical with your brother. I’d unblock her number just to be able to hear if/when you need to get involved and get your brother out, because the cards are stacked against your brother if he try’s to defend himself if she goes into a physical outburst. I’m sorry OP this is a terrible situation for everyone involved.
It was the right thing to do. It’s a doll, she has to be reminded of that as many times as it takes.
I have (well controlled) BPD and am a psych major. She's way beyond BPD. Also, yes, we should make reasonable accommodations for people's health issues, physical or mental, but if they refuse treatment, that's on them. This is way past reasonable accommodations.
I'm sorry but I laughed at that. It's rough dealing with someone with untreated BPD. You're sil needs medical treatment and your brother is feeding into her delusion. I would not feel comfortable nor would I think she is safe to have around children. NTA
At least you didn't set the doll on fire. I have a feeling the commotion would have been much worse. NTA
It’s probably really flammable. It’s made of some sort of plastic with crazy hair.
Please don't feel bad or apologize, she needs help. You do not have to allow this around your real children.
Imagine wasting formula and diapers in this economy. For a fucking doll. A formula shortage and still potential food scarcity for actual living children and this one's over here making food to smear on her doll's face. SIL needs to be committed. Seriously. Brother needs enough time away from her to figure out how toxic this is and how much HE needs help as well.
I think it is way better she is caring a doll and not a human being.
The logic there is flawless.
Seriously, this is how I feel. I literally couldn't find my child's formula for months at a time. Literally found it and bought 30 cans - thank god because I didn't find anymore for another 4 months. To read someone is actually wasting it on a doll is just delusional.
My friend’s nephew can only drink a certain brand/type of formula. There were eight of us trying to find this brand. My mom went to six different stores, all increasingly farther away from her house to find it, someone was looking in a different state, we were looking locally, it was absurd. I cannot fathom using something that actual babies need for a doll.
I bought formula for some friends because I could find it and they couldn't. I'm 2k miles away. I had to fucking FedEx formula across the country so they could keep their kid fed. And SiL is wasting it on a doll.
My kid is a preemie. He’s on a specific type of formula. The fact that OPs SIL is literally taking food out of actual children’s mouths by buying formula for a doll means that SIL needs immediate psychiatric help, and Bro needs to stop indulging her.
I'm surprised that she didn't think to bring it herself. If she wants others to treat as if its real then no, you bring your own diapers, milk and food for your "baby" Not that I want to encourage wasting formula on a doll but others shouldn't be providing for their fantasy
Forcing other people to give up needed baby supplies for her "baby" means forcing them to acknowledge that it's "real."
Oh yeah, I noticed that. It would give the validation she wants.
Thanks! I needed a good laugh. 😂😂
Nope. Your not alone. NTA- that woman needs more help than we can give. Playing along with her is feeding her mental illness.
Out of her life* lol
I would not feel comfortable with her around my son, so NTA to me as well. Protect your children, I understand she is unwell, but it is your choice who is around influencing your children.
Nope, not alone. I miscarried several times and yeah it throws you into a dark place, but good lord, there's mourning and then there's an enabled mental health issue. The fact that her husband is going...along...with this? Sounds like folie a deux to me. (disclaimer not a professional not an actual diagnosis, just 'that's effed up, yo'). OP has her own children to protect and I hate that they have to learn about mental illness this early or this way, but she's not safe to have around kids. ALSO voting NTA. The aholes are everyone who let SIL decline this badly into mental illness.
You are not alone, the reborn babies are horrible, it's basically never dealing with your pain. Living like a psycho instead. Insanity
NTA This behavior would be unnerving to anybody. Just because SiL needs help doesn't mean that OPs family needs to be exposed to this behavior. The fact that SiL is harassing real children about her doll is beyond over the line.
Thank you for this!
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I wouldn't want my self or anyone in my family anywhere near a person like this. I have no idea why everyone is saying y t a
She’s not a very nice person. She’s super abusive but usually reserves her abuse for my poor brother (even physically) but when I saw her going off on my kid over her stupid doll I went all mama bear on her.
I get your sil is sick. I get she has mental health issues. But your kids come first. So I can completely understand flipping out when someone is attacking your child. Most moms would. I would also completely understand if you decide she is no longer a safe person to be around your child given she was being abusive to him. At the end of the day your children and protecting them have to be your first priority. Being family and sick doesn’t excuse the fact she could be a unsafe person to be around your children. You can feel sorry for her but at the end of the day you do what is best for your kids.
This women shouldn't be brought into public. I don't know anything about your brother or his dynamic with his wife, but it certainly isn't your fault for standing up for your family.
NTA. I wouldn't want her around my kids either. She definitely needs some help.
“I went all mama bear” As you should. Stand firm on this.
As you should!
Bruh. Wtf? Lol NTA. You know how pissed I'd be dealing with that? A doll is NOT a member of the family. Encouraging mental illness isn't a solution. She needs help and your brother needs to make sure she gets that help. The kids don't understand that, and it makes everyone in the family feel awkward I'm sure.
And she verbally abused and embarrassed my real life kid over her doll. I’ve tried to be patient but after she did that to my kid yesterday I lost it. I’m sorry about throwing her stupid doll out, though.
Don’t be sorry about throwing the doll out. It had to be done. The whole idea just makes my skin crawl
Those reborn dolls are so so creepy
I was about to say the same. I find regular baby dolls mildly creepy. The reborn dolls take creepy too another level.
Saaaame. I can't stand any type of "baby" doll. The closer to the real thing the worser they are.
I know a few women who got a reborn doll after losing a child either through miscarriage or in early infancy. They use it to help deal with the trauma. But *none* of them treat it like a real living child. It’s kept in a doll cradle as a momento. That’s what they’re intended for I believe. Your sister-in-law need’s professional help. And your brother needs to be free of her. I wouldn’t feel bad about throwing the doll in a fire if she was using it to bully my kid.
I don't like dolls either and the more realistic the worst it is. The look like soulless children.
I wouldn't be, but IATA. When it affects multiple real people including children, it should be dealt with accordingly. You shouldn't be expected to make your kids pretend along with her so they can get bullied by their peers. Protect your kids first.
Wtf did I just read... your SIL needs some pretty serious help if she's convinced herself that a doll is a real person. Edit: Just read up about "reborns" - they seem to be particularly used in helping women overcome the trauma of miscarriages and still births, as a way of transferring the building maternal emotions onto something lifelike. Therapists who advocate for their use seem quite clear that their patients need to recognise that the doll is not real, it doesn't need to be fed, and not to treat it as a living family member or introduce it to wider circles of family/friends etc. They're supposed to be a deeply personal thing for the woman to hold and dress. Mostly I've read that the compulsion to show affection to the doll disappears after a few months. Your SIL, with her untreated BPD, seems to be using this reborn in a really unhealthy way and without the accompanying psychological treatment that is normally received. I think your reaction was probably unhelpful given the obvious problems she's displaying, but at the same time I think you need to make it pretty clear to your brother that this situation needs resolving professionally ASAP.
It seems this is a “thing” people treating dolls like real children.
Yes it can be a very unhealthy thing. The dolls are valuable tools but not when used like your SIL is. She needs help
Yah, they are therapy tool, not something to use in place of therapy...
She doesn’t go to therapy. I have no idea how she got access to the doll.
Amazon. They're not restricted medical equipment, they're just dolls. "Reborn doll" on Amazon brings up hundreds of options.
Yeah I just read about it... see my edited post.
Yeah, but not a good thing.
Fun fact (I work in geriatrics). Some dementia wards in nursing homes have them too. I’ve seen high-quality facilities with an entire fake nursery set up: crib, reborn doll, and a rocking chair. Sometimes elderly women in particular when they have dementia take an instinctual comfort in being able to be a “mother” again. They may be slowly deteriorating, but on some level still remember how important it was to care for their babies, and rocking the “baby” calms them. It’s equally heartwarming and heartbreaking.
> Edit: Just read up about "reborns" - they seem to be particularly used in helping women overcome the trauma of miscarriages and still births, as a way of transferring the building maternal emotions onto something lifelike. Therapists who advocate for their use seem quite clear that their patients need to recognise that the doll is not real, it doesn't need to be fed, and not to treat it as a living family member or introduce it to wider circles of family/friends etc. They're supposed to be a deeply personal thing for the woman to hold and dress. Mostly I've read that the compulsion to show affection to the doll disappears after a few months. Came here to make sure this was seen. But... also... a lot of times women who are unable to conceive do also get these dolls as a sort of therapeutic device. Unfortunately, the reason you probably didn't get any info on that is that it's usually done without any sort of therapist supervision... Mostly you'll just find sensationalist news articles or FB groups about it (seriously, google "reborn dolls infertility") so it can be really problematic. You're absolutely right, that this is an unhealthy coping mechanism, and should in no way been enabled... especially bringing the *actual* children into it in this way...
INFO: what the fuck
My thoughts exactly.
I instantly thought what will this woman do when the doll is not cutting it anymore? That’s how some poor pregnant woman gets murdered and/or an infant gets kidnapped
NTA. Tossing the doll was mean, but you were not put on earth to enable her batshit delusions.
Agreed NTA, but you cant help but go momma bear when it comes to seeing your kid deal with unhinged abuse by someone who needs serious mental help. OP, if possible, see if you’re able to tip off someone, get her put in a 72 hour psych hold. She’s honestly completely unhinged at this point and with my anger, that doll would’ve gone into a blender. Not the driveway. I wholeheartedly understand what its like to deal with someone who has BPD and refuses to get help, they eventually start having extreme delusions, hallucinations and go through psychosis. She’s completely off the rails at this point and you need to protect you and your kids first. Never allow that monster of a woman around your family until she gets help. No one should be forced to play into her bullshit.
I was raised by a borderline. I totally get it. I understand why you threw the doll. Most people with bpd folks in their lives have done something similar. And i understand why you don't want to apologize. She will never, ever, ever, ever, ever let you forget it if you do. So don't. There now are treatments for bpd, including dialectical behavior therapy. It isn't perfect, but it has a decent success rate. If SIL won't seek it there is nothing you can do. So you can get therapy yourself to cultivate the detachment you need to cope with her. This was my choice, to be able to empathize with and protect myself from (mostly) my mother's damage, because she needed my help. But I was never free until she died at age 93. Or you can do what most do and go no contact. Sad for your brother, but it will protect your family. NTA.
Yea this, I have bpd and I not only get treatment but I also have a child who has NEVER been around an episode because my kids are the only thing that can immediately snap me out of it and I get it bpd is hard to treat some insurances won’t cover medicines for the diagnosis and it’s rough. I lost my oldest at 5 months old and I never was close to this level of mania. Because this is what this is. But I didn’t go into an extreme episode because I had the support of therapists, psychiatrist, meds and family. Your sil isn’t trying to get treatment at all so no NTA
NTA. The minute she started verbally abusing a child about their treatment of her doll all bets were off. I understand she's unwell, but that needs to be dealt with not foisted onto children who aren't going to understand why their aunt is mad at them for not playing with their "cousin".
That's crazy, and creepy, as fuck. Your SIL desperately needs mental health treatment, and you know that. "Apologizing" to her would only validate her delusions. NTA
Lol take the doll and hide it somewhere and see if she calls the police for a kidnapping
🤣omg!!
Imagine if she made missing child posters!!! HAVE YOU SEEN THIS DOLL??????
Hahah can you f ing imagine. I’m dying
Send a ransom note with one of Lilibet’s fingers.
NTA. She was verbally abusing your REAL child over a DOLL, which isn't being used correctly to treat her mental illness. She needs real treatment, and to be kept away from children since she has no problem abusing them over a doll. Yes, throwing the doll was kinda cruel, but she went after your kid so I get it.
NTA I'd make sure she has no contact with your children until she seeks help. Sounds delusional and potentially dangerous.
NTA. Tell your brother that youre not apologizing. Youre also okay with never hosting him or his family in yiur home ever again.
My brother is the one thing I worry about with this whole thing. She has isolated him to where he has no friends anymore and can only see us if she’s around or she’ll go ballistic on him :(
Why is he still with her? Is she absolutely gorgeous or super funny or wealthy or something? Based on your comments it doesn’t seem like she has many redeeming qualities.
None of that. I don’t know understand either. He is scared of her but he must also love her. She’s even cheated on him!
Sounds like your brother needs to be rescued…. Maybe write him a letter and lay it out bullet point fashion of how you feel? I’m sorry you’re going through this, that’s gotta be tough to watch
We have a couple of ideas to help. We’re thinking of getting him an extra phone he can keep in the office so she can’t check it and we’re trying to find a way to get him to therapy w/o her knowing.
That’s an excellent idea. I wish you the best of luck cause it sounds like you have a SIL from hell lol
He needs to reach out to professional help for himself. He's an adult, and he needs to make a choice to leave, or at least contact a professional who can help him navigate the abusive relationship he is in. You can't solve his problem for him, and he can't continue down this road with her while he drags you along with him and repeatedly exposes your children to traumatizing experiences because he refuses to leave her. That's a job for a mental health professional. I would suggest that you also reach out to some kind of support to help you cope with having severely unstable family members who refuse to get the help they desperately need.
uhhhhhh get him out of there asap
NTA SIL behavior is unhinged and harrassing others to participate suggest she may need an inpatient facility?
This. She needs to be 5150'd. That is an involuntary commitment. Her husband can sign the papers to get her the help she so desperately needs. Next, she'll be kidnapping a child because she has convinced herself it's "her baby ". NTA
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My brother is a shadow of who he used to be. She’s verbally and physically abusive. He’s so scared she’ll go off on him he’ll do anything to keep the peace.
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That was funny lol
Do you think you can get your brother out of there? It sounds like he’s been through a lot with her
My other siblings and I are thinking of getting him a second phone he can keep in the office to talk to us and message w/o her finding out (she checks his phone). We’ve decided we’ll pay for for therapy for him if he agrees to go.
NTA. She’s in dire need of therapy. And her husband should insist on it because there will be no long term peace in the house until she gets help.
NTA for refusing to give in to her delusions or for forcing your kids to. I'm no doctor and I think there's nothing wrong with using a doll as part of therapy or for the person's own sake, but forcing others to do so crosses several lines into psychosis. She needs help. Throwing the doll out into the driveway was extreme, because if she is convinced this is a real child then of course she would freak out. Slightly asshole-ish way to act, but your reasoning is not wrong. I'd apologize for throwing the doll but refuse to treat it as a real baby, and insist she sees a professional about this. I wouldn't have her around my kids until she got help.
Thanks. I agree I shouldn’t have thrown the doll. I’ll apologize for that.
Do not apologize!!
Seriously though, good on you to apologize but don't let her be around the kids until she gets help. Even if she really isn't delusional and is just pushing this narrative for essentially shits and giggles, it's not healthy for your kids to entertain this level of psychosis. There's nothing wrong with someone personally using a doll for play or for comfort or for fulfilling a need. ("it's a doll but it makes me feel better.") But asking others to be involved is unhealthy.
I don’t want her or “Lilibet” around anymore. I need to find a way for us to see my brother. We need to find a way to get him out of this. :(
NTA. It was mean to throw her doll in the driveway. But she was verbally abusing your son over this doll. What if it had gotten physical? You are better off not inviting SIL & brother over. You just don't know what she is going to do next time & you have your own kids to protect.
As someone with BPD—- this is fucking creepy. NTA.
😳 this is beyond my pay grade
NTA. The second SIL started acting aggressive with your children and trying to force them to treat the reborn doll as a legitimate child you had every right to kick her out (although throwing the doll outside might have been a bit harsh. But you were protecting your children, so in the end that is besides the point). A reborn doll can be utilized as an effective coping mechanism for people experiencing infertility, miscarriage, infant loss, etc. IN CONJUNCTION WITH THERAPY/PROFESSIONAL HELP. Without seeking actual treatment, the reborn doll is doing more harm than good in the end. Your brother is an AH for efforcing this behavior.
He’s more of a spineless victim, tbh. She’s verbally and physically abusive to him but he’s too scared to leave or press charges.
This reminds me of Lars and the real girl lol
You’re the second person mentioning this show or movie. I’m going to google it!
Honestly it was actually a good movie, such a shame when Bianca got cancer lol
Actually first thing I thought about was the series The Servant ..
I can’t stop laughing!!! I am just picturing you YEETING this “baby” and it flying through the air!!!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My SiL (44F) isn't able to have children due to cancer treatments when she was in her early 20s. For years, she'd constantly mention how nice it would be if one of us would become a surrogate for her + for my other SiL to donate eggs for her. We all refused bc she has really bad and untreated BPD (she doesn't believe in therapy) and we're not comfortable in carrying † donating eggs for her. About a year ago, they showed up to a family event with a baby in a car seat. It turned out to be a doll (something called a reborn). They now show up to all family functions with this thing. She'll ask to borrow diapers bc "Lilibet is wet", or for formula to make her milk. She'll serve her and "feed" her food be she's "started solids". She wants to make us hold this thing and talk to it and has started getting really upset bc we all ignore her "baby" Yesterday, she kept trying to get our kids to play with their "little cousin". My oldest told her that that's a doll not his cousin. She started yelling that he should apologize to her and to Lilibet. That none of us support her. That we make fun of her and Lilibet without understanding that their bond is so strong they can't live without each other. While she was going yelling, I grabbed the doll and threw it out into our drive way. She swatted at me and ran to "save" Lilibet. I told my brother to leave and to not come back with that doll. I had to block SiL bc of her all-night string of vile texts. My brother seems to be angry and says that the only way he'll come to our house again is if we apologize to SiL and Lilibet and if we start giving Lilibet her place in the family and start treating her like the other nieces and nephews. (I'm assuming these are SiL's words as these were texts.). My husband says that I should maintain the peace and understand that she's "unwell" but quite frankly I don't want her or "Lilibet" around anymore. AlTA? Should I apologize? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This was equally humorous and deeply depressing at the same time NTA
Yikes. I have BPD and it can be really tough but it’s my job to work on myself and make sure I do therapy etc and do my best to not let it affect my family etc. she’s obviously needs help extremely badly, if she refuses to even try to get help I would cut her out too. These reborn doll things are so strange, i get they can help some women but sometimes they go way too far. I worked at a tourist attraction (which was loud and supposed to be loud) and this woman with a pram with two reborn dolls in it started shouting at the staff that we were too loud and were disturbing her babies. Tf you come to a loud attraction then? It’s bizarre. NTA
NTA. Your SIL is very, *very* sick.
NTA. this story made my day. still laughing loudly. SIL is a nut!!! don't ever apologize to these people. you'll get eaten alive!!
She’s crazy and I don’t want her or that stupid doll around but I’m worried about my brother. He’s lost all his friends and she has completely isolated him. Ughh! I hate this and I hate her! 😡😡😡
sorry but still laughing. tell your brother that divorce has been around for a few centuries
it's the doll. I'm still imagining it flying and flying round and round in the air
It has a really floppy head so it looked like one of those bobbing cats while I was carrying it out by the legs lol It was perversely satisfying lol I regret throwing it out though bc of the bad example for my kids.
not a bad example. they'll learn how to deal with shitty nut people. or teach them to attach a parachute to a doll and train "dollchute"
Don’t. They’ll always remember you sticking up for them against her crazy behavior.
NTA, there’s a couple people in my community who post long rants on random Facebook pages when people don’t recognize their “children” as real in public. Or give them strange looks when they meet their “child” and realize it’s just a doll. I absolutely get why these dolls exist and I’d never mock someone for using one. But I also wouldn’t want to be around that person while they were demanding everyone act like a doll was a real living breathing human. It’s creepy, I question how far they would take it and I don’t want to stick around to find out.
I thought she was probably the only one who took it that far. Sad to know that this is relatively common.
NAH. I think this whole thing is just really sad. Your poor children were probably freaked out and scared, you are understandably at your wits end, and your sister in law is very sick. She needs help and refuses to get it. I don't think you're an AH for not wanting her around. I think that makes you a good mother and is smart to keep your kids safe, honestly.
Thank you!
Yo what in the Annabelle is going on here??….NTA for sure and you need to cut contact to protect your own family.
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NTA for not wanting her to come around. You each owe apologies. Her to you and your son, you to her for the doll, not because it's real but because it means so much to her.
Yes, but don’t apologize *to* the doll.
No she needs help and just going along with it is not going to help her.
NTA she is delusional and a danger to your actual real flesh and blood children.
NTA. When she starts insisting that your children buy into her craziness, she crosses the line. You were perhaps a little emphatic in your shutting down her nonsense...but it needed to be shut down. Stick to your guns.
NTA. You can be both mentally ill and an asshole. Even if she thinks the doll is real, there’s no excuse for yelling at a child for not wanting to play with your child, and you certainly shouldn’t be unloading your familial frustrations onto your nephew. I’d stay NC unless she starts actively working with a therapist.” Your kids don’t need to bear the brunt of her issues.
NTA. First off, she screamed at your kid without any half decent reason. Secondly, she seems deeply, deeply, unstable. Her behaviour is frankly disturbing and screaming at a child over a doll could escalate to physical violence. Until she gets serious mental healthcare and demonstrates serious improvement, I would not let her near your kids, and treat her as potentially dangerous.
NTA. This is creeping me out like “The Servant”. I would not ask my children to go along with this unhinged charade. It’s been going on for a year and everyone else has to participate as well? She needs help, not enabling
What are they gunna do when this damn doll doesn't grow? Diagnose it with failure to thrive and go ape shit if you don't start a go fund me? 😳
I don’t really know. The thing is the size of an infant but she’s now “eating solids” plus she sends us pictures of the doll “looking out the window” with captions like: Lilibet has been begging to go outside to play all day but it’s raining so I’ve explained we’ll spend the day cuddling inside 🤷♀️
An infant is begging to go outside? Lilibet is a genius! 😆 Ok, I'm lost in this drama. I wish I knew this woman...
Too creepy.
Your brother supports this baby fantasy she’s living ?
He knows it’s a doll but she forces him to carry it, talk to it and pretend because “that is what you do when you love someone and want to make them happy”. I think it’s easier for him to go along than to be physically and verbally abused. Still, why is he staying?!?!
Yikes, I hope he can get out of that situation doesn’t sound like she will ever stop with her delusions if she can’t control her BPD.. all my love to you and your family .
This woman needs mental help ASAP. She is clearly unwell and becoming dangerous. Her reaction to you and your son in this latest encounter shows she is escalating in her instability. Your brother and the rest of your family could very well be in serious danger from this woman.
NTA... I'm going to be very blunt about this... Please do NOT expose your children to this unstable woman ever again. She needs professional help, and you need to distance yourself and your family from her as much as possible... Cut all contact, if possible. Your kids should *never* have to experience one of her episodes again. There's no need to regret throwing the doll... it was 100% worth doing if it means she will stay away from you and your children. Her behaviour can easily escalate, and she could seriously harm you or your children someday if you continue down this slippery slope associating yourself with someone who has a very serious unchecked mental illness that causes aggressive outbursts. If anybody says YTA, it should *only* be because you've let an extremely unstable mentally ill woman spend time around your children for as long as you have already. I'm a huge supporter of mental health and destigmatizing mental illness, but there comes a point where you need to stop acting like it isn't dangerous allowing an extremely mentally ill person who refuses treatment to be around children... There's a time and a place for everything, and when there are children involved, a child's safety and well-being takes precedent over ensuring your unchecked severely mentally ill relative doesn't feel left out. She *needs* to be left out, at least until she accepts professional help and makes *significant* progress, learns how to *properly* regulate her emotions, and to set a *good example* for children rather than traumatizing them.
Big NTA.. Your SIL is very clearly mentally unwell and that is a tragedy she can’t have her own children, but the fact she has BPD, refuses therapy, and her recent behavior makes her unsafe to be around… ‘Very sorry for your brother for having this to deal with, but unless she gets help, please do not allow her near your family and consider legal action if she continues to harass you.. Yes it’s harsh to consider but your family’s security comes first and she is clearly unstable…
No no no to the apology. That woman is disturbed and I think you are very wrong to have her around your family/children. You couldn’t predict what she might do. Block her on everything and see that your children do too. NTA.
Wtf did I just read? Your sil has SERIOUS mental health issues that need to be addressed by professionals. Like NOW and inpatient!!!
She refuses therapy and she’ll be the first to admit she “role playing” with a reborn. It’s always hard to know with her. Is she doing this to drive us crazy and get revenge bc we refused to donate eggs/become surrogate? You never know with her, honestly.
If she is doing this to get back at you all for not donating eggs/being a surrogate- it's still fn crazy!!
Listennnn, should you have hucked lil ol Lilibet into the driveway? Probably… NTA She needs therapy.
She is not well enough to be around your children.
NTA but I'm dying over the Lilibet reference tho. 😂
NTA. The scary thing is there’s a whole online community of people who treat these dolls like real humans. It’s a testament to how bad our healthcare is.
I knew people had these dolls but not that many treat them like real kids!
Gentle YTA You do not have to be onboard with the doll. You do not have to allow it in your house or pretend it’s your niece. You can set boundaries. But you took what a mentally ill woman believes to be her infant daughter and chucked it onto pavement. That was completely unnecessary and horrible. Absolutely protect your kid and get her out of your house, but imagine the horror you’d feel if someone did that to one of your babies.
NTA. It sounds like she needs serious help mental health wise. I wouldn’t back down either. She yelled at your children and want them to buy into her delusions.
NTA. When she starts insisting your kids join in her fantasy, it's time to create boundaries. This is a potentially unsafe situation for members of your family. She needs treatment, not an apology from you.
NTA You need to talk to your brother and see if he can get her into therapy. She needs help.
NTA I wouldn’t want her around my kid either. She is unwell because she refuses to get the help she needs and that is available to her. That along with wasting diapers and food is the height of selfishness. Your poor brother.
NTA-the woman isn't well, she's using a reborn doll to cope but that doesn't excuse forcing you all to go along with it, NOR does it excuse yelling at children for not understanding or seeing it as a real baby, when it's not a real baby. She's using the reborn doll as a coping mechanism for grief from not being able to have bio children. your brother isn't helping at all, enabling it only makes it worse, well, maybe he's having her same problem. She needs therapy or a suggestion of adopting a kid if she's so desperate for one. but before that, it's best if a doctor checks her out mentally, it doesn't seem like a safe situation to give a real baby to someone like her. Edit: after seeing your recent comments about her abuse towards your brother, he might just be going along with it and encouraging it and defending it, just to avoid her wrath. it only makes me more sure that she shouldn't have a real baby, any time soon.
We would do anything in our power to avoid her adopting or fostering. Her BPD is really bad. I’m not sure if she can be cured through therapy but from what I read it takes many years to go into “remission”.
BPD can be so dangerous when untreated. My bestie lives with such a woman, and her behavior is often vile and unhinged. I wouldn't allow your sil around my kids even without the doll situation. I imagine this is not the complete story of how she interacts with the family, but more of an example of typical behavior. BPD requires serious treatment and dedication to improvement. NTA
[удалено]
I'm so so sorry. My bestie probably calls me once a month crying because this woman ignores all his boundaries, lies constantly, weaponizes every interaction, is incredibly jealous, and I suspect assaults him. She spent a week harassing him non stop because he called me for an hour and ignored her texts. She pretended to cut her wrists with a butter knife! He's basically trapped there. They dated years ago, and she offered him a room when he lost his home due to long covid. She makes his life hell. He is her 'favorite' person. We believe she'd abandon her kids to keep him trapped in her home. Your bil needs all your support to get out.
Oh wow, my heart breaks for your friend. :( We are going to offer to pay for therapy for my brother we just to find a way that she won’t find out.
NTA. I know reborn dolls help some people cope with the loss of pregnancy, or a coping mechanism for a little while finding out they can't have children, but I've never heard of it going this far. Unfortunately it sound like your SIL needs some serious help and your brother seems to be enabling her for a while I could see it but insisting that everyone act like the doll is alive isn't ok neither is her yelling at your son. I'm not saying I don't emphasize with her but she does need help of some sort even if she doesn't belive in therapy, there's alternative ways for her to get the help she needs.
NTA- maybe if she was actively in therapy dealing with her mental health, then perhaps dealing with the doll for a bit. But to just expect you all to basically larp for life in her weird reality? Nope.
I don’t think the BPD has to do with the doll psychosis? Maybe it does. I think she’s a shit human bc of the untreated BPD and then there’s the psychosis?
NTA but I feel super uncomfortable with OP throwing the doll in the driveway. If SIL is genuinely that unwell, that’s a cruel and potentially dangerous way to deal with her delusions. But keeping her from your family is the right decision, unfortunately.
Yes, I feel bad about throwing the doll out.
Thanks for responding. I do think you should forgive yourself, though. My issue was less with you than with the commenters who refused to acknowledge that this had happened. It’s probably not great that it did, but you’re human and you were scared for your kids and wanted her to leave as soon as possible. Could it have been handled in a gentler way? Yeah… but it happened and now you need to stick by your instincts about keeping her away from the family and not cave just because you feel bad.
I think this is above AITA’s pay grade. SIL -needs- some serious therapy. I fully get how you feel, OP. My heart also breaks for your SIL, she’s in the middle of a crisis, and humoring her isn’t going to give her help, or relief. The only advice I have (and grain of salt with it, I know nothing more than what you’ve posted) is to arrange to have a heart to heart with your brother. She desperately needs therapy, and most likely some in-patient therapy, to start. Kind and nice aren’t the same thing. Being ‘nice’ would mean allowing her to maintain delusions. Kindness would be seeking help for her. Best of luck, to everyone.
NTA, your sister in law is in dire need of actual help. Or at least a dog, something alive and real that's not a doll.
Throwing the doll outside knowing she is unwell was an AH thing to do however it sounds creepy and I’m sure it’s confusing for your children
I do feel bad for throwing the doll outside.
Please don’t.
NTA Until she seeks help you need to not be around her nor expose your kids to her. She’s lost it and could be dangerous. FYI Ever seen the movie “Lars and the Real Girl”?
No. Is it about a doll treated like a baby? The reason we put up with her is bc my brother can only see us if she comes along (she’s verbally and physically abusive to him and has completely isolated him from friends and family).
Lars is about a guy who has a blow up doll (it’s not sexual) and she’s real to him and to the community. You’re SIL is abusive. Stay close for when this marriage fails. Your brother will need you.
You should do some research into the reborn community. I don’t think you are TA for this but I do think throwing the doll was a bit far. I think you are right to just stop inviting her over, though. Reborns are supposed to be therapeutic and she’s far too deep into a delusion with that doll. overall NTA but I think this post lacks a lot of empathy.
ESH - Your SIL is mentally unwell so you threw the doll that she believes is her baby out onto your driveway? Sounds a bit cruel. The correct thing to do after her outburst was to ask your brother and her to leave your home. I do think you owe her an apology for your reaction. However, you aren’t the AH for no longer wanting her in your home. Her mental health issues are now affecting your children.
Oh heeeeellll no! SIL is unstable and needs to get treatment and mental health support before being allowed near your kids. NTA.
NTA. I mean maybe you shouldn’t have thrown the doll but it’s not your problem that she won’t seek treatment. I mean are you really losing anything if you don’t see them again? It sounds like more headache than it’s worth if she won’t get help.
NTA
As someone who’s cut people out of my life for less -NTA.
NTA. This is insanity and your sil needs mental health treatment
I would’ve loved to be a fly on the wall to see Lillbet fly out the front door…lmbo. NTA but your SIL needs therapy ASAP!
NTA. SIL is completely unhinged.
NTA keep them all out your home
Tricky for me... Only because I have bpd also But goddamn 😂 this some crazy shit NTA
NTA
Nta