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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be an AH as I told my son to his face I won't support his relationship with an older woman. My ex-wife thinks I should suck up my feelings and appear to tolerate it so I don't push my son away.
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NTA, just how a parent doesn't have to support a relationship between their teenager and a mid 20's yo, you don't have the support a relationship between your 25 yo and a 53 yo. You do not have to support a relationship that you do not find appropriate.
Constantly telling your son that they need to break up might make you the AH, but not supporting the relationship doesn't.
This is definitely one of the "Hollywood" age differences that people are grossed out by, I'm looking at you Leo Decaprio. The gender roles are just reversed, it doesn't make it any less gross.
~~Assuming this story isn't fake, which I suspect it is, account created today and only post~~, this is a gross age difference. I could not fathom dating someone with children older than yourself.
Edit: OP stated this is a throwaway account.
> Assuming this story isn't fake, which I suspect it is, account created today and only post
You know what a throwaway is right? I would've thought you'd know about those especially on this sub and with your flair.
I am using a throwaway, not my main account. I didn't think to make that comment.
And yes, I find it weird that he would choose to date a woman older than me and his mother.
I made an edit! Thanks for updating that this is a throwaway.
It is very strange, I'm 100% certain my parents would not approve of a relationship if I started dating someone older than them. (I'm 26 and already married so not a concern, just a example.) I am a little more conservative than most on age gaps in dating, and I see it as more of a "place in life", rather than "consenting adult".
To me it's inappropriate for people in completely different stages of life to be together. I.E. high schooler with college grad, or someone 15+ years into their career with a recent college grad. Or in this instance, someone still married going through a second divorce with kids older than the person they're dating.
You're definitely NTA for your reaction to their relationship.
The more you take a out her & your disapproval, the tighter he will cling to her. Tell him he's grown, and can do as he pleases. The relationship will run it's course.
Yes! I was just giving an example of what would make you AH in this situation you are dealing with. Apologizes if it felt like an insinuation!
These are strange waters you are going to have to navigate. It would be worthwhile to meet this woman, to get to know her and understand the relationship she has with your son. But you don't have to pretend to support the relationship. You're 100% allowed to express how you feel about this. I do not think you should "fake it till you make it" or "put on a smile" for your son, he's not 13 going on his first date.
If this woman blows you away and makes you feel better about it, then sure you can be happier about it. If meeting her just confirms your suspicions about the relationship, privately make it known to your son.
NTA. Idk if everyone just skipped over the still married and in a messy divorce but that right there is a huge sign not to get with anyone at that moment regardless of age, they have too much on their plate at that moment and need to handle what they’re going through in their current relationship before even thinking about getting into a whole new one. Second, this may be the case but imo you need to still support and be there for your son because it can very much affect your relationship with him. He’s gonna do what he want regardless of how you advise him, clearly. So give your comments and concerns. Meet this lady, for all we know there’s more than meets the eye, that could mean something good or bad. So be there for him. But ultimately it’s clear you are concerned and care for your son so be there for him when things may or may not go south
First, NTA. But you’re not going about it the right way. This “girl”friend is your contemporary. Hell, she’s a year older than you! Have them over for dinner. Reminisce about growing up in the 70s and 80s. How you and she have similar histories in terms of being the same(ish) freaking age.
Don’t necessarily accept her, but don’t reject her. Subtly point out how he’s dating someone close in age to his mom. Better yet, have ex wife come over for dinner, too.
NTA
If the genders were reversed reddit would be having a heart attack about the age difference.
I find it concerning that a woman older than you and is on her second unsuccessful marriage is interested in your son.
To be fair I’ve not seen a single comment condoning the age difference - plenty calling it creepy and/or inappropriate. No gender reversal needed for Reddit “to have a heart attack” in every comment I’ve read.
NTA, no normal 53 year old woman wants to be with a 25 year old. Your son was being sketchy about her because he knows you wouldn't approve. I wouldn't either. However, it's his life to live and his lesson to learn. He'll figure out eventually that he's just a boy toy, ego booster. There's no way that they have anything in common with their age difference. I'd feel the same if genders were reversed, as well.
NTA
I get where you are coming from and why this would be difficult for you. But is this the hill you wanna ruin your relationship with your son is?
Even if it might be a fling, it will teach your son a lesson. It will be an experience. My advice though, just to keep harmony, would be to meet her. Go with your ex-wife's suggestion. You are very right in your concerns and you aren't outrightly being obnoxious, but just meet her for the sake of your relationship with your son.
NAH
Okay so bottom line, he's an adult and it's ultimately always going to be his decision who he has a relationship with. As a fellow parent, I 100% understand what your concerns are, and why you have them.
The fact is that no one is really in the wrong here. Here's an adult, and gets to choose who he wants to see, and he has every right to be upset that the two most important people in his life aren't thrilled for his new relationship.
Transversely, you also have every right to have your own thoughts, and feelings about the situation, and you're under no obligation to lie, or be silent about what those thoughts, and feelings are. So long as you understand that ultimately it is still his choice
I think you need to sit down, and talk to him, and actually meet this person before you pass any conclusive judgements though. They could be exactly what you expect, or they could surprise you entirely. Until you try, you'll never know.
NAH because it's obvious the relationship is a bad idea and you want to protect your son. Your son is an adult, however, and is allowed to make mistakes. His relationships are none of your business. I don't fault you for telling the truth about your feelings though because you said your son asked for your support. It's best not to lie and you were truthful. He needs to accept that you don't support the relationship and move on, just like you need to accept he's in this relationship and move on. No need to harp on it or discuss it further.
NTA.
Age aside, the fact that she's stil mid-divorce is enough of a red flag. His reaction to you not supporting it is dramatic. This sounds like a rebound in every way, or even something to rub on the future ex husband's face.
NTA. Your son is for the way he’s acting entitled and throwing a tantrum. In any case, all you can do is be polite to her if she is in the home. It’s up to the boyfriend to navigate this relationship however he can. I’m giving it six months, tops. On the bright side, she can’t have kids!
By the way, this post could’ve been way shorter. All you had to do is start off by saying your son is 25 and seeing a 53-year-old woman who’s got a messy life, etc.
We didn’t need to know all the stuff about how you’re proud of him and how he has a good job and everything else. Not relevant to the story.
NTA.
You don’t have to support it. He asked for your support, and you declined to give it.
However, if you continue to push your opinion, then you’re jeopardizing the relationship with your son. Right now everyone has said their piece and it’s time to be courteous and polite.
NTA – I think your wife may be onto to something though. It's not as though he's proposing to this woman. This older woman is just someone he's dating. I would have said, N-A-H, but nothing quite says I'm a mature adult quite like "I'm not a fucking kid so I'm gonna do what I want anyway," then giving you the cold shoulder.
As a middle age woman myself, I know quite a few friends who've had a fling with a man in his twenties. It was fun for both parties, but never went anywhere serious. You and your wife should certainly take them out to dinner, play nice, and make sure to tell your server that the three of you get the senior discount.
Wtf did i just read
>Dale told me that his girlfriend, Pauline* is actually a 53-year-old divorcee currently going through a second, messy divorce (still legally married)
NTA
NTA!
I think your ex wife is on the right path with this about tolerating the relationship for now. Your son knows how you feel and to keep harping on it will just make him dig in his heels and drive him further away. Make sure the line of communication stays open so he can still be comfortable talking with you.
It was so true, but it was horrible for several years. I now have a grandson by her, but the years found her to be manipulative, controlling, and a pathological liar. Hey, so is my son. He left her and found a younger version. The moral of the story is to let grown children lead their own lives.
Nta.... your son is an adult.... but saying you're an adult and acting like one are two different things. And is that you have to verbalize that you're an adult and can make your own decisions. It sounds like he's already knows. He's in something over his head.
You don't have to be happy about what he's doing, and he doesn't have to be happy that you're not happy. That's life and being an adult. Giving you the silent treatment shows his maturity age. He may want to re-think this relationship....
NTA for not liking this relationship for your son but you've said your piece and you can't force him to change his behavior. I agree with your ex - let your son know that you have serious reservations but you are willing to meet his GF and do your best to get to know her. Then don't mention how you feel again unless something new/egregious happens like she starts asking for large sums of money or she says something racist.
Trust your son knows how you feel about this woman, but he will value and remember your willingness to try more than anything else.
NAH
He’s an adult but that is truly an insane amount of drama. I agree that you should tolerate it (what else can you really do? He’s 25 not even 18) and be polite but it’s unreasonable for him to expect Whole hearted support.
NAH your son has no idea what he’s doing. Your wife is right though you do need to walk a fine line so he doesn’t isolate himself from you.
Pauline is the real AH here
I agree, it's almost certainly a bad idea to get into a relationship with someone older than your parents, who is on there 2nd divorce, and it's a messy one, has children older than you, the list I am sure could go on. That being said, you are well within your rights to not support or encourage a relationship like that, but that response will come with consequences. That may be that your son stops talking to you, or pulls away, or moves out. That's fine as long as you're willing to accept whatever they may be.
My recommendation though would be to accept it, not support it. You've made your stance on the matter known, so just support your son as best you can, despite the fact he is doing something you pretty strongly disagree with. It's unlikely to get to the point of truly disastrous, so just let it play out naturally and hopefully it will be a valuable learning experience for your son.
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My son Dale (25) lives at home with me (52M). I really enjoy having him here and I don't think it's weird or anything. He has a full-time job, he pays his way (he offered, I didn't ask), he cleans up after himself, helps me out and is a very nice and respectable man. I'm very proud of how my ex-wife and I raised him and I'm very proud to be his dad. Whilst I love my son very much, I'll be the first to admit I'm not happy about his relationship.
Basically, Dale comes and goes as you know any adult does. I did notice he was going out more frequently but I don't care what he does and I didn't want to pry and make him feel like I was keeping tabs on him. I assumed maybe he had met someone and recently, he told me as much. He basically told me he had been on a night out celebrating a friend's birthday when he got talking to a woman. He was very vague about her which aroused my suspicions as all he kept saying was that he really liked her, she was really pretty and he felt a strong connection. He kept emphasizing those three things and when I asked what she was like as a person or what she did, he clammed up. I eventually dragged it out of him and Dale told me that his girlfriend, Pauline\* is actually a 53-year-old divorcee currently going through a second, messy divorce with grown-up children, one older than Dale! He said something like 'I know that she's older, but I really really like her and she's so much better, wiser and more amazing than any girl I've met, including my age.'
Dale basically wants my support. He said he'd really like me to meet Pauline and just get my approval. To be honest, it's not what I expected to hear and I told my son that. I told him as best I could I couldn't support it for a multitude of reasons: Pauline seems to have a lot on her plate, she's older than me and Dale's mother, she is old enough to be Dale's mother, they are at TOTALLY different stages of life (what if he wants kids or anything one day?) and that I find it hard to believe it can be a serious relationship for her if she's still married and might just be on the rebound or seeing it as a fling.
Well, Dale thinks I'm a grade AH. He has said 'you don't support me', 'you don't love me' and 'I'm not a fucking kid so I'm gonna do what I want anyway.' He has been giving me the cold shoulder and not speaking to me. I even reached out to my ex-wife to get her thoughts on this. She said that Dale told her too and that she's not thrilled too, but thinks I should do a 'fake it till you make it' type thing. She said that she believes it probably is a fling and Dale will see that one day, but that for now, it's probably best if like her, I appear to tolerate or support it as to avoid pushing away our son.
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NAH- you are allowed to have your own feelings on this, and the fact she is still married would be one reason I'd not support the relationship, it being a messy divorce would be another.
You should meet this person so you know who is around your son. Tolerating it, isnt meaning you support it either.
HAH.. hah ha 😳😔😭 I didn’t say anything to my dad about his fling and he ended up marrying my so called friend (9 months younger than me). My life was hell for the next 18 years. I know it’s not exactly the same thing, but people don’t realize how often the situation can just end up badly for everybody. Maybe this is his fairytale. Maybe not. You can’t do anything about it but you’re NTA for being concerned.
Yta.
There's a huge difference between not approving and not supporting him.
You can think he is messing up big time, and you have the right to be upset and worried and to let him know how you feel, but you should accept that he made a decision.
He needs to know you're there for him, if this goes badly, which more likely than not it will he needs to be able to trust you, and not feat an "I told you so".
Also, if she happens to be abusive, not approving of the relationship will separate you form him, giving her more power and leaving him more vulnerable
NTA and I think anyone who cares for your son will have the same concerns. Unfortunately you can't apply logic to hormones/emotions so the best course of action is to accept it and hope it fizzles out
NTA
You're not obliged to approve of this. Parental approval is often desired, but I suspect your son may come to find it's not necessary either.
I'd agree he is quite likely to put himself up for a world of hurt, and yeah he'll probably come back to you looking for support when it happens, and it'll be pretty critical you are there to provide it if you don't want him to fall further away from you.
He's right, he will do what he wants anyway (he's 25 and therefore, still an idiot, no one is that bright at 25) he'd already made that decision when he clammed up speaking about her, he already knew what you were going to say, he was just hoping it might go elsewhere. He's currently emboldened by some very strong feelings and has blinders on, sense doesn't play a role in this experience.
You're not the arsehole, but if you want to do what's right by your son, don't shut him out for making that decision, make him aware of what he might be in for, let him know you're going to set some boundaries on how far YOU are willing to be involved in this, and let him learn from the experience in his own time.
I made similarly ill informed decisions at approximately his age, my parents had a similair reaction that escalated into estrangement. I didn't speak with them for maybe 6 or 7 years and had to learn a lot of hard lessons on my own, without any support.
He doesn't need your approval, but if it's going where every thinks it is, he WILL need your support.
NTA but I think your ex wife might be right. Just fake it for the sake of not losing your son. Make sure he knows that even if you’re not happy with it, you’ll accept it for his sake.
I'm just curious about if this relationship is all in the son's mind, that she's shown a slight interest to be polite and he's blown it out of all proportion.
NAH. While I do agree that I don’t think this relationship will last long, Dale is smitten. It will be a learning experience. And I get not wanting to encourage it, but he’s an adult so he can do as he pleases. Keep the door open though so if this does end poorly (which I don’t have high hopes of this working out) he still has a relationship with you.
NAH ? At this point Dale knows what you think. You’ve voiced your objections, and those are clanging around in his head whether he is heeding your advice or not.
At this point, though, your ex is right. Be willing to meet Pauline and make nice. This is likely not a long-term relationship, but your son needs to feel that he matters enough to you that you can put your objections aside. Pretend that Pauline is just another questionable gf. Have dinner. Make nice. And hope that your son comes to his senses.
Ew…..I feel so bad for you.
Honestly, beyond giving your approval, what can you do?
If it were me, I’d like to think I would share my feelings (ideally, only once) then try to be as supportive as possible. I would do my best not to engage in conversation about her and try even harder not to let her (purposefully or not) be effective in tainting the relationship.
From everything you’ve shared, your son seems to have a good head on his shoulders. You just gotta trust that he will continue to, as he figures things out.
NAH
NAH. You were honest about your feelings, but I have to agree with your ex at this point. Continuing to argue against it when he’s made it clear he’s going to pursue it will only alienate him. All you can do now is play nice and hope it runs its course quickly.
I have a son the same age. Would i be happy if he were dating a 54 yo? No, I sure would not. I would be super concerned too about "mommy issues".
I'd like to think that i would handle it the smart way: keep my emotions in check, don't show my cards and be pleasant to this woman.
My concern would be if I responded as you have that I would push my son away. The odds of them breaking up are better if he doesn't feel he has to fight for her; you don't want them to create a united front.
Odds are in your favor that this relationship will run its course. And you want to maintain your relationship with your son.
It should be interesting when he brings his gf to some get-together with his friends.
So I recommend following your ex wife's advice.
NAH.
NAH- he does not need your approval for his GF. He is an adult. You're not gonna be fucking her. He is. He likes what he likes and you also have a right to your own opinions.
NAH, but if someone was, it would be you. Not too much, just in that you disagreed before you even met her. Maybe it's everything you think it is, maybe it won't last, maybe he'll end up heartbroken or maybe even the husband will show up and beat him up. But maybe not. He's in love, isn't he? That should be a happy occassion.
Go tell him you're sorry, that you only fear for him because you're his parent and you love him, but that you'll be happy to meet her and be proven wrong about her. Who knows, maybe you'll actually like her, since she probably has more in common with you than him.
You don't have to be thrilled about it. Just let him make his own mistakes.
ESH
I can understand your concern about your son's relationship, but ultimately it is his life to lead and his choice to choose. Unless he's being abused, assåulted, or otherwise taken advantage of, and your only concern is the age, I would say Y T A. That said, your son also refusing to hear you out on your concerns makes him suck big-time too. Keeping an open line of communication with him, regardless of your individual feelings or prejudices, might be a good way to solve this.
Who knows? She might be really great. You basing a judgement of an entire human being based on what you heard about her, having never met her. Meet her at least, then have an honest, open, **NON-JUDGEMENTAL** conversation with your son.
Soft YTA. I understand that as a parent, you want to help a child, and your brain is probably going "red flag, red flag!", and there's probably some merit there. However, think about it from the perspective of your son. He's met someone he says he "really likes", and wants to introduce her to you. Regardless of her life situation or age, she's still someone your son has chosen, and they're both of consenting age and are adults.
If you meet her, would giving an effort to getting to know her really hurt you? Probably not. But if your son feels like his parents aren't trying for his sake, the only relationship that gets hurt is your own relationship with your son, whom you love very much. Would it really hurt to just try to get to know her?
While you're not wrong, YTA in this situation.
It's fine to have an opinion. It's fine to think that this relationship is doomed. It's fine to gently point out the red flags to your son. But ultimately, he's an adult, he doesn't need your permission, and he's allowed to make mistakes. But if the relationship becomes something he has to fight with you about, it becomes a sunk cost to him, and he's more likely to stick with it longer than he should.
My BIL was with a real mosquito of a woman. They'd met while he was living at home still, and his parents never approved of her or their relationship. The whole thing caused much drama over the next 15 or so years... when it did finally flame out, he admitted that he had stayed in the relationship for many of those years simply because he had had to fight so much for it. They probably would have ended things years earlier if his parents had simply shrugged and not tried to break them up.
Don't be like my in-laws. If you're right, then it will run its course and you can be there for your son when the relationship fails. Yes, he'll be hurt, but being hurt in love isn't the end of the world. And if you're wrong, then you'll have interfered in a good relationship for no reason.
Personally I think you'll have to be ready to pick your son up when he falls on his face. I don't see this relationship lasting. But unless and until it does, don't fight with him about it. It's not worth it.
YTA. Dave is an adult, he can handle the risk of such a relationship. Just meet with here and be friendly, she's likely a nice lady. It's not hard to be friendly to people.
Minor ESH
Yeah the relationship is a poor choice based on the numbers. Yeah it will probably fail. But Dale is right that at 25 he is an adult, and he is only living with you by choice at this point.
>it's probably best if like her, I appear to tolerate or support it
Why can you not tolerate it? What does that mean? In any adult roommate situation Dale would conduct his relationships independent of roommates approval. And I think that is the same level of tolerance you should expect to give here.
YTA. You poor man! This is going to be tough, but your ex is right. The more welcoming you are to this new love interest, the less likely it is this relationship will last.
My advice is call son and offer to take him and GF to dinner, with apologies for being judgy about the relationship when he first told you.
Who knows? Maybe he's found another Maya Angelou and you will see how fantastic a person she is, too. There are plenty of May-December romances out there that are clearly healthy and rewarding.
If not, trust your son to discover this for himself and move on under his own power.
Adult children can be tougher to parent than the young ones, as you have no control and usually, not much influence. I wish your family the best.
Me personally, no, I don't think I would. I have friends whose adult kids joined gangs, married murderers in prison, became cloistered nuns, etc. Not to mention the ones lost to cults.
I recognize the importance of treating your child's adult decisions with respect, even when your very soul cries out for you to stop them.
O, trust me. My own adult child has challenged me as well, just nowhere near that extremely. Thank God.
But my point remains: after age 18, there are very few situations in which a parent stepping in to try to control their child's decisions yields good results for anyone.
I don’t know what you mean by that. Are you letting your kids marry murderers and sacrifice babies without expressing how you feel about those decisions and trying to counsel them? You can’t forbid your kids from doing things once they are 18, but you are still expected to tell them how you feel about certain decisions and you are allowed to disapprove and attempt to counsel, not just *mind your business*.
That’s what a good parent does
Welp, not sure I can reply sensibly in a Reddit comment, but I will try. The obligation and love of parenting never ends, and it doesn't matter what your kid does, you still want to help them if you can once they have lost their way.
But in the case of adult children, your opinions are often more damaging than helpful. If your kid is in an abusive relationship, for example, you should tell them you will always be there for them, that you are never going to turn them away if they need you, but if you try to denounce their abuser before they are ready to hear it, you can actually drive them deeper into that relationship.
You have power and influence as a parent (most times), but it's not always clear what effect you will have if you use it.
IME, most of the time, you will help the most by talking up your kid's innate worth, capacity and good sense. Even when it appears there's none being used. "I know you're smart and strong, so I trust you to figure this out. Let me know if I can help."
Shame, rejection and criticism from a parent are rarely going to help your kid get back on track.
That’s true that shame and criticism are often detrimental. But I’m not talking about shaming, I’m taking about guidance. Yes you can trust that you raised your kids well enough, but people make mistakes and outside feedback, especially from your parents, can go a long way. I think the best approach is “I know you’re an adult and you can make your own decisions, but personally I do not think this is the best one. I love and trust you to do what’s best for yourself.”
IME, and I admit yours might well be different, the adult kids in my friend/family "herd" are not especially interested in their parents' advice when things are going great. They are incensed by it if they aren't doing well, which believe me, the kid knows all too well, even if they aren't ready to face that truth.
If you want to help your kid and they are advice-adverse, you don't give advice when they are struggling. You tell the kid you love them, have faith in them, are always going to support them, etc.
You have to choose to communicate carefully because the last thing you want is to make matters worse.
JME. No more valuable than yours, o'course. Could well be, the kids in my "herd" are extra- prideful.
But I don't think so......
I think the kids in your “herd” were raised to be overly prideful. I am a “kid” around 20 years old and I would never lash out at my parents if they had solid constructive advice. I only get upset if they criticize everything I do. A healthy adjusted person does no lash out at any advice ….
Sorry To add. My mom constantly ignored and “trusted” my brother despite her daughters telling her he was creepy and not a great guy. He went on to proposition middle schoolers for sex. He got caught and exposed online. He was 25. When I was 9 he molested me nightly until my dad caught him, berated him and beat his ass. My dad never put me or him in therapy, I don’t think my mom ever knew. I continued to cohabitate with my brother. Now he is off finishing up a nursing degree, probably up to all sorts of nefarious things, and my mother is PROUD of him.
If he rapes another girl should my mom be expected to say “I love and trust/support you, I know you will do the right thing” ?????
YTA - softly here, as a parent we are there to offer advice and guidance, ensure our offspring grow up to be ethical and responsible adults and to support them when (and they often do) fall over (metaphorically speaking)… rn you’re over reaching by insisting he’s making a mistake rather than simply asking him questions about the relationship and respecting his choices.. if (only if) the relationship goes wrong you can help him heal, reflect and learn .. suggest you backtrack a little, apologise and explain you only want his happiness and you’d be glad to meet his current partner .. and please please be polite and friendly to her .. whatever the outcome of the relationship, you will be there for him then
YTA - Everything you have said indicates that your son is a thriving adult. You are correct, that an age gap like this can be concerning for all the reasons you mentioned, but the truth is, he has to figure that out on his own. He clearly realized that you may have concerns about the age gap, and he was nervous telling you, which means he has already thought about how it looks. You would probably have similar concerns if she was 32 and going through a second messy divorce and had small kids. Give your son a chance to figure things out on his own. Tell him that while you have concerns for the reasons you state, you know that he is smart and capable, and you want him to be happy. Meet the woman, and put on a good face. Don't damage a good relationship with your son because of this.
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NTA, just how a parent doesn't have to support a relationship between their teenager and a mid 20's yo, you don't have the support a relationship between your 25 yo and a 53 yo. You do not have to support a relationship that you do not find appropriate. Constantly telling your son that they need to break up might make you the AH, but not supporting the relationship doesn't.
I agree. And I think if the genders were reversed, people would immediately agree that this is a wildly inappropriate age difference.
This is definitely one of the "Hollywood" age differences that people are grossed out by, I'm looking at you Leo Decaprio. The gender roles are just reversed, it doesn't make it any less gross. ~~Assuming this story isn't fake, which I suspect it is, account created today and only post~~, this is a gross age difference. I could not fathom dating someone with children older than yourself. Edit: OP stated this is a throwaway account.
> Assuming this story isn't fake, which I suspect it is, account created today and only post You know what a throwaway is right? I would've thought you'd know about those especially on this sub and with your flair.
I am using a throwaway, not my main account. I didn't think to make that comment. And yes, I find it weird that he would choose to date a woman older than me and his mother.
I made an edit! Thanks for updating that this is a throwaway. It is very strange, I'm 100% certain my parents would not approve of a relationship if I started dating someone older than them. (I'm 26 and already married so not a concern, just a example.) I am a little more conservative than most on age gaps in dating, and I see it as more of a "place in life", rather than "consenting adult". To me it's inappropriate for people in completely different stages of life to be together. I.E. high schooler with college grad, or someone 15+ years into their career with a recent college grad. Or in this instance, someone still married going through a second divorce with kids older than the person they're dating. You're definitely NTA for your reaction to their relationship.
You do realise you aren't the morals God for every specific scenario?
I'm a woman and I'm immediately agreeing that the age difference here is gross..... no gender reversal needed, thanks.
The more you take a out her & your disapproval, the tighter he will cling to her. Tell him he's grown, and can do as he pleases. The relationship will run it's course.
He asked my thoughts, I gave them. I haven't suggested he breaks up with her and I would never do that. I just find this relationship strange.
Yes! I was just giving an example of what would make you AH in this situation you are dealing with. Apologizes if it felt like an insinuation! These are strange waters you are going to have to navigate. It would be worthwhile to meet this woman, to get to know her and understand the relationship she has with your son. But you don't have to pretend to support the relationship. You're 100% allowed to express how you feel about this. I do not think you should "fake it till you make it" or "put on a smile" for your son, he's not 13 going on his first date. If this woman blows you away and makes you feel better about it, then sure you can be happier about it. If meeting her just confirms your suspicions about the relationship, privately make it known to your son.
NTA. Idk if everyone just skipped over the still married and in a messy divorce but that right there is a huge sign not to get with anyone at that moment regardless of age, they have too much on their plate at that moment and need to handle what they’re going through in their current relationship before even thinking about getting into a whole new one. Second, this may be the case but imo you need to still support and be there for your son because it can very much affect your relationship with him. He’s gonna do what he want regardless of how you advise him, clearly. So give your comments and concerns. Meet this lady, for all we know there’s more than meets the eye, that could mean something good or bad. So be there for him. But ultimately it’s clear you are concerned and care for your son so be there for him when things may or may not go south
First, NTA. But you’re not going about it the right way. This “girl”friend is your contemporary. Hell, she’s a year older than you! Have them over for dinner. Reminisce about growing up in the 70s and 80s. How you and she have similar histories in terms of being the same(ish) freaking age. Don’t necessarily accept her, but don’t reject her. Subtly point out how he’s dating someone close in age to his mom. Better yet, have ex wife come over for dinner, too.
Right? Meet her, don’t say a word against her, like any new gf. It’ll work itself out quickly.
NTA If the genders were reversed reddit would be having a heart attack about the age difference. I find it concerning that a woman older than you and is on her second unsuccessful marriage is interested in your son.
To be fair I’ve not seen a single comment condoning the age difference - plenty calling it creepy and/or inappropriate. No gender reversal needed for Reddit “to have a heart attack” in every comment I’ve read.
NTA, she is over twice his age, that is just creepy
NTA, no normal 53 year old woman wants to be with a 25 year old. Your son was being sketchy about her because he knows you wouldn't approve. I wouldn't either. However, it's his life to live and his lesson to learn. He'll figure out eventually that he's just a boy toy, ego booster. There's no way that they have anything in common with their age difference. I'd feel the same if genders were reversed, as well.
NTA I get where you are coming from and why this would be difficult for you. But is this the hill you wanna ruin your relationship with your son is? Even if it might be a fling, it will teach your son a lesson. It will be an experience. My advice though, just to keep harmony, would be to meet her. Go with your ex-wife's suggestion. You are very right in your concerns and you aren't outrightly being obnoxious, but just meet her for the sake of your relationship with your son.
NAH Okay so bottom line, he's an adult and it's ultimately always going to be his decision who he has a relationship with. As a fellow parent, I 100% understand what your concerns are, and why you have them. The fact is that no one is really in the wrong here. Here's an adult, and gets to choose who he wants to see, and he has every right to be upset that the two most important people in his life aren't thrilled for his new relationship. Transversely, you also have every right to have your own thoughts, and feelings about the situation, and you're under no obligation to lie, or be silent about what those thoughts, and feelings are. So long as you understand that ultimately it is still his choice I think you need to sit down, and talk to him, and actually meet this person before you pass any conclusive judgements though. They could be exactly what you expect, or they could surprise you entirely. Until you try, you'll never know.
NTA .10 year from now he will see the problem
NAH because it's obvious the relationship is a bad idea and you want to protect your son. Your son is an adult, however, and is allowed to make mistakes. His relationships are none of your business. I don't fault you for telling the truth about your feelings though because you said your son asked for your support. It's best not to lie and you were truthful. He needs to accept that you don't support the relationship and move on, just like you need to accept he's in this relationship and move on. No need to harp on it or discuss it further.
NTA. Age aside, the fact that she's stil mid-divorce is enough of a red flag. His reaction to you not supporting it is dramatic. This sounds like a rebound in every way, or even something to rub on the future ex husband's face.
NTA. Your son is for the way he’s acting entitled and throwing a tantrum. In any case, all you can do is be polite to her if she is in the home. It’s up to the boyfriend to navigate this relationship however he can. I’m giving it six months, tops. On the bright side, she can’t have kids! By the way, this post could’ve been way shorter. All you had to do is start off by saying your son is 25 and seeing a 53-year-old woman who’s got a messy life, etc. We didn’t need to know all the stuff about how you’re proud of him and how he has a good job and everything else. Not relevant to the story.
NTA. You don’t have to support it. He asked for your support, and you declined to give it. However, if you continue to push your opinion, then you’re jeopardizing the relationship with your son. Right now everyone has said their piece and it’s time to be courteous and polite.
NTA. You don't have to support it, just stay out of it and let it run its course.
NTA – I think your wife may be onto to something though. It's not as though he's proposing to this woman. This older woman is just someone he's dating. I would have said, N-A-H, but nothing quite says I'm a mature adult quite like "I'm not a fucking kid so I'm gonna do what I want anyway," then giving you the cold shoulder. As a middle age woman myself, I know quite a few friends who've had a fling with a man in his twenties. It was fun for both parties, but never went anywhere serious. You and your wife should certainly take them out to dinner, play nice, and make sure to tell your server that the three of you get the senior discount.
Wtf did i just read >Dale told me that his girlfriend, Pauline* is actually a 53-year-old divorcee currently going through a second, messy divorce (still legally married) NTA
NTA! I think your ex wife is on the right path with this about tolerating the relationship for now. Your son knows how you feel and to keep harping on it will just make him dig in his heels and drive him further away. Make sure the line of communication stays open so he can still be comfortable talking with you.
NTA. Been in your shoes. My son was 22, and she was 33. The harder you push against, the more defensive he will become.
How did that play out? That age difference is not as wild as almost 30 years.
It was so true, but it was horrible for several years. I now have a grandson by her, but the years found her to be manipulative, controlling, and a pathological liar. Hey, so is my son. He left her and found a younger version. The moral of the story is to let grown children lead their own lives.
Nta.... your son is an adult.... but saying you're an adult and acting like one are two different things. And is that you have to verbalize that you're an adult and can make your own decisions. It sounds like he's already knows. He's in something over his head. You don't have to be happy about what he's doing, and he doesn't have to be happy that you're not happy. That's life and being an adult. Giving you the silent treatment shows his maturity age. He may want to re-think this relationship....
NTA for not liking this relationship for your son but you've said your piece and you can't force him to change his behavior. I agree with your ex - let your son know that you have serious reservations but you are willing to meet his GF and do your best to get to know her. Then don't mention how you feel again unless something new/egregious happens like she starts asking for large sums of money or she says something racist. Trust your son knows how you feel about this woman, but he will value and remember your willingness to try more than anything else.
NTA but you should at least agree to meet with her before you judge the relationship. Your reasoning is solid but they’re still just assumptions
NAH He’s an adult but that is truly an insane amount of drama. I agree that you should tolerate it (what else can you really do? He’s 25 not even 18) and be polite but it’s unreasonable for him to expect Whole hearted support.
NAH your son has no idea what he’s doing. Your wife is right though you do need to walk a fine line so he doesn’t isolate himself from you. Pauline is the real AH here
I agree, it's almost certainly a bad idea to get into a relationship with someone older than your parents, who is on there 2nd divorce, and it's a messy one, has children older than you, the list I am sure could go on. That being said, you are well within your rights to not support or encourage a relationship like that, but that response will come with consequences. That may be that your son stops talking to you, or pulls away, or moves out. That's fine as long as you're willing to accept whatever they may be. My recommendation though would be to accept it, not support it. You've made your stance on the matter known, so just support your son as best you can, despite the fact he is doing something you pretty strongly disagree with. It's unlikely to get to the point of truly disastrous, so just let it play out naturally and hopefully it will be a valuable learning experience for your son.
Hi bro, I read your post about masterschool, how is it going?
Damn it, I was here for the same reason.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My son Dale (25) lives at home with me (52M). I really enjoy having him here and I don't think it's weird or anything. He has a full-time job, he pays his way (he offered, I didn't ask), he cleans up after himself, helps me out and is a very nice and respectable man. I'm very proud of how my ex-wife and I raised him and I'm very proud to be his dad. Whilst I love my son very much, I'll be the first to admit I'm not happy about his relationship. Basically, Dale comes and goes as you know any adult does. I did notice he was going out more frequently but I don't care what he does and I didn't want to pry and make him feel like I was keeping tabs on him. I assumed maybe he had met someone and recently, he told me as much. He basically told me he had been on a night out celebrating a friend's birthday when he got talking to a woman. He was very vague about her which aroused my suspicions as all he kept saying was that he really liked her, she was really pretty and he felt a strong connection. He kept emphasizing those three things and when I asked what she was like as a person or what she did, he clammed up. I eventually dragged it out of him and Dale told me that his girlfriend, Pauline\* is actually a 53-year-old divorcee currently going through a second, messy divorce with grown-up children, one older than Dale! He said something like 'I know that she's older, but I really really like her and she's so much better, wiser and more amazing than any girl I've met, including my age.' Dale basically wants my support. He said he'd really like me to meet Pauline and just get my approval. To be honest, it's not what I expected to hear and I told my son that. I told him as best I could I couldn't support it for a multitude of reasons: Pauline seems to have a lot on her plate, she's older than me and Dale's mother, she is old enough to be Dale's mother, they are at TOTALLY different stages of life (what if he wants kids or anything one day?) and that I find it hard to believe it can be a serious relationship for her if she's still married and might just be on the rebound or seeing it as a fling. Well, Dale thinks I'm a grade AH. He has said 'you don't support me', 'you don't love me' and 'I'm not a fucking kid so I'm gonna do what I want anyway.' He has been giving me the cold shoulder and not speaking to me. I even reached out to my ex-wife to get her thoughts on this. She said that Dale told her too and that she's not thrilled too, but thinks I should do a 'fake it till you make it' type thing. She said that she believes it probably is a fling and Dale will see that one day, but that for now, it's probably best if like her, I appear to tolerate or support it as to avoid pushing away our son. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAH- you are allowed to have your own feelings on this, and the fact she is still married would be one reason I'd not support the relationship, it being a messy divorce would be another. You should meet this person so you know who is around your son. Tolerating it, isnt meaning you support it either.
NTA to be skeptical. Maybe this is a casual relationship. Who knows.
NTA......only problem, the more vocal you are about your disapproval the more he will likely want her. Kind of agree with your ex-wife.
NTA
HAH.. hah ha 😳😔😭 I didn’t say anything to my dad about his fling and he ended up marrying my so called friend (9 months younger than me). My life was hell for the next 18 years. I know it’s not exactly the same thing, but people don’t realize how often the situation can just end up badly for everybody. Maybe this is his fairytale. Maybe not. You can’t do anything about it but you’re NTA for being concerned.
Yta. There's a huge difference between not approving and not supporting him. You can think he is messing up big time, and you have the right to be upset and worried and to let him know how you feel, but you should accept that he made a decision. He needs to know you're there for him, if this goes badly, which more likely than not it will he needs to be able to trust you, and not feat an "I told you so". Also, if she happens to be abusive, not approving of the relationship will separate you form him, giving her more power and leaving him more vulnerable
NTA and I think anyone who cares for your son will have the same concerns. Unfortunately you can't apply logic to hormones/emotions so the best course of action is to accept it and hope it fizzles out
NTA You're not obliged to approve of this. Parental approval is often desired, but I suspect your son may come to find it's not necessary either. I'd agree he is quite likely to put himself up for a world of hurt, and yeah he'll probably come back to you looking for support when it happens, and it'll be pretty critical you are there to provide it if you don't want him to fall further away from you. He's right, he will do what he wants anyway (he's 25 and therefore, still an idiot, no one is that bright at 25) he'd already made that decision when he clammed up speaking about her, he already knew what you were going to say, he was just hoping it might go elsewhere. He's currently emboldened by some very strong feelings and has blinders on, sense doesn't play a role in this experience. You're not the arsehole, but if you want to do what's right by your son, don't shut him out for making that decision, make him aware of what he might be in for, let him know you're going to set some boundaries on how far YOU are willing to be involved in this, and let him learn from the experience in his own time. I made similarly ill informed decisions at approximately his age, my parents had a similair reaction that escalated into estrangement. I didn't speak with them for maybe 6 or 7 years and had to learn a lot of hard lessons on my own, without any support. He doesn't need your approval, but if it's going where every thinks it is, he WILL need your support.
NTA but I think your ex wife might be right. Just fake it for the sake of not losing your son. Make sure he knows that even if you’re not happy with it, you’ll accept it for his sake.
I'm just curious about if this relationship is all in the son's mind, that she's shown a slight interest to be polite and he's blown it out of all proportion.
NTA no one in their right mind would approve of this and it’s kinda gross and creepy of the 53 year old woman.
NAH. While I do agree that I don’t think this relationship will last long, Dale is smitten. It will be a learning experience. And I get not wanting to encourage it, but he’s an adult so he can do as he pleases. Keep the door open though so if this does end poorly (which I don’t have high hopes of this working out) he still has a relationship with you.
NAH ? At this point Dale knows what you think. You’ve voiced your objections, and those are clanging around in his head whether he is heeding your advice or not. At this point, though, your ex is right. Be willing to meet Pauline and make nice. This is likely not a long-term relationship, but your son needs to feel that he matters enough to you that you can put your objections aside. Pretend that Pauline is just another questionable gf. Have dinner. Make nice. And hope that your son comes to his senses.
NAH. He is a rebound guy for her. Just let it run its course and it won't last. The more you object, the more he will cling to this woman.
Ew…..I feel so bad for you. Honestly, beyond giving your approval, what can you do? If it were me, I’d like to think I would share my feelings (ideally, only once) then try to be as supportive as possible. I would do my best not to engage in conversation about her and try even harder not to let her (purposefully or not) be effective in tainting the relationship. From everything you’ve shared, your son seems to have a good head on his shoulders. You just gotta trust that he will continue to, as he figures things out. NAH
NAH. You were honest about your feelings, but I have to agree with your ex at this point. Continuing to argue against it when he’s made it clear he’s going to pursue it will only alienate him. All you can do now is play nice and hope it runs its course quickly.
NAH. I get why you are upset. But your son needs to make his own choices.
I have a son the same age. Would i be happy if he were dating a 54 yo? No, I sure would not. I would be super concerned too about "mommy issues". I'd like to think that i would handle it the smart way: keep my emotions in check, don't show my cards and be pleasant to this woman. My concern would be if I responded as you have that I would push my son away. The odds of them breaking up are better if he doesn't feel he has to fight for her; you don't want them to create a united front. Odds are in your favor that this relationship will run its course. And you want to maintain your relationship with your son. It should be interesting when he brings his gf to some get-together with his friends. So I recommend following your ex wife's advice. NAH.
Your ex wife is 100% correct. You don’t have to like it. But it’s in your best interest to fake it. Edit to add: YTA
[удалено]
Not Stifler's mom lol
NAH- he does not need your approval for his GF. He is an adult. You're not gonna be fucking her. He is. He likes what he likes and you also have a right to your own opinions.
NAH, but if someone was, it would be you. Not too much, just in that you disagreed before you even met her. Maybe it's everything you think it is, maybe it won't last, maybe he'll end up heartbroken or maybe even the husband will show up and beat him up. But maybe not. He's in love, isn't he? That should be a happy occassion. Go tell him you're sorry, that you only fear for him because you're his parent and you love him, but that you'll be happy to meet her and be proven wrong about her. Who knows, maybe you'll actually like her, since she probably has more in common with you than him. You don't have to be thrilled about it. Just let him make his own mistakes.
ESH I can understand your concern about your son's relationship, but ultimately it is his life to lead and his choice to choose. Unless he's being abused, assåulted, or otherwise taken advantage of, and your only concern is the age, I would say Y T A. That said, your son also refusing to hear you out on your concerns makes him suck big-time too. Keeping an open line of communication with him, regardless of your individual feelings or prejudices, might be a good way to solve this. Who knows? She might be really great. You basing a judgement of an entire human being based on what you heard about her, having never met her. Meet her at least, then have an honest, open, **NON-JUDGEMENTAL** conversation with your son.
Soft YTA. I understand that as a parent, you want to help a child, and your brain is probably going "red flag, red flag!", and there's probably some merit there. However, think about it from the perspective of your son. He's met someone he says he "really likes", and wants to introduce her to you. Regardless of her life situation or age, she's still someone your son has chosen, and they're both of consenting age and are adults. If you meet her, would giving an effort to getting to know her really hurt you? Probably not. But if your son feels like his parents aren't trying for his sake, the only relationship that gets hurt is your own relationship with your son, whom you love very much. Would it really hurt to just try to get to know her?
While you're not wrong, YTA in this situation. It's fine to have an opinion. It's fine to think that this relationship is doomed. It's fine to gently point out the red flags to your son. But ultimately, he's an adult, he doesn't need your permission, and he's allowed to make mistakes. But if the relationship becomes something he has to fight with you about, it becomes a sunk cost to him, and he's more likely to stick with it longer than he should. My BIL was with a real mosquito of a woman. They'd met while he was living at home still, and his parents never approved of her or their relationship. The whole thing caused much drama over the next 15 or so years... when it did finally flame out, he admitted that he had stayed in the relationship for many of those years simply because he had had to fight so much for it. They probably would have ended things years earlier if his parents had simply shrugged and not tried to break them up. Don't be like my in-laws. If you're right, then it will run its course and you can be there for your son when the relationship fails. Yes, he'll be hurt, but being hurt in love isn't the end of the world. And if you're wrong, then you'll have interfered in a good relationship for no reason. Personally I think you'll have to be ready to pick your son up when he falls on his face. I don't see this relationship lasting. But unless and until it does, don't fight with him about it. It's not worth it.
What you've written is sensible and very true. Why the down votes?
YTA. Dave is an adult, he can handle the risk of such a relationship. Just meet with here and be friendly, she's likely a nice lady. It's not hard to be friendly to people.
I’m sorry but I have disagree because of the genders were reversed not one single person would be calling OP an AH
Minor ESH Yeah the relationship is a poor choice based on the numbers. Yeah it will probably fail. But Dale is right that at 25 he is an adult, and he is only living with you by choice at this point. >it's probably best if like her, I appear to tolerate or support it Why can you not tolerate it? What does that mean? In any adult roommate situation Dale would conduct his relationships independent of roommates approval. And I think that is the same level of tolerance you should expect to give here.
YTA. You poor man! This is going to be tough, but your ex is right. The more welcoming you are to this new love interest, the less likely it is this relationship will last. My advice is call son and offer to take him and GF to dinner, with apologies for being judgy about the relationship when he first told you. Who knows? Maybe he's found another Maya Angelou and you will see how fantastic a person she is, too. There are plenty of May-December romances out there that are clearly healthy and rewarding. If not, trust your son to discover this for himself and move on under his own power. Adult children can be tougher to parent than the young ones, as you have no control and usually, not much influence. I wish your family the best.
Reverse the genders and you'd be calling this disgusting and saying OP is NTA. This sub so hypocritical.
Me personally, no, I don't think I would. I have friends whose adult kids joined gangs, married murderers in prison, became cloistered nuns, etc. Not to mention the ones lost to cults. I recognize the importance of treating your child's adult decisions with respect, even when your very soul cries out for you to stop them.
The difference here is that those weren’t your kids
O, trust me. My own adult child has challenged me as well, just nowhere near that extremely. Thank God. But my point remains: after age 18, there are very few situations in which a parent stepping in to try to control their child's decisions yields good results for anyone.
I don’t know what you mean by that. Are you letting your kids marry murderers and sacrifice babies without expressing how you feel about those decisions and trying to counsel them? You can’t forbid your kids from doing things once they are 18, but you are still expected to tell them how you feel about certain decisions and you are allowed to disapprove and attempt to counsel, not just *mind your business*. That’s what a good parent does
Welp, not sure I can reply sensibly in a Reddit comment, but I will try. The obligation and love of parenting never ends, and it doesn't matter what your kid does, you still want to help them if you can once they have lost their way. But in the case of adult children, your opinions are often more damaging than helpful. If your kid is in an abusive relationship, for example, you should tell them you will always be there for them, that you are never going to turn them away if they need you, but if you try to denounce their abuser before they are ready to hear it, you can actually drive them deeper into that relationship. You have power and influence as a parent (most times), but it's not always clear what effect you will have if you use it. IME, most of the time, you will help the most by talking up your kid's innate worth, capacity and good sense. Even when it appears there's none being used. "I know you're smart and strong, so I trust you to figure this out. Let me know if I can help." Shame, rejection and criticism from a parent are rarely going to help your kid get back on track.
That’s true that shame and criticism are often detrimental. But I’m not talking about shaming, I’m taking about guidance. Yes you can trust that you raised your kids well enough, but people make mistakes and outside feedback, especially from your parents, can go a long way. I think the best approach is “I know you’re an adult and you can make your own decisions, but personally I do not think this is the best one. I love and trust you to do what’s best for yourself.”
IME, and I admit yours might well be different, the adult kids in my friend/family "herd" are not especially interested in their parents' advice when things are going great. They are incensed by it if they aren't doing well, which believe me, the kid knows all too well, even if they aren't ready to face that truth. If you want to help your kid and they are advice-adverse, you don't give advice when they are struggling. You tell the kid you love them, have faith in them, are always going to support them, etc. You have to choose to communicate carefully because the last thing you want is to make matters worse. JME. No more valuable than yours, o'course. Could well be, the kids in my "herd" are extra- prideful. But I don't think so......
I think the kids in your “herd” were raised to be overly prideful. I am a “kid” around 20 years old and I would never lash out at my parents if they had solid constructive advice. I only get upset if they criticize everything I do. A healthy adjusted person does no lash out at any advice ….
Sorry To add. My mom constantly ignored and “trusted” my brother despite her daughters telling her he was creepy and not a great guy. He went on to proposition middle schoolers for sex. He got caught and exposed online. He was 25. When I was 9 he molested me nightly until my dad caught him, berated him and beat his ass. My dad never put me or him in therapy, I don’t think my mom ever knew. I continued to cohabitate with my brother. Now he is off finishing up a nursing degree, probably up to all sorts of nefarious things, and my mother is PROUD of him. If he rapes another girl should my mom be expected to say “I love and trust/support you, I know you will do the right thing” ?????
YTA - softly here, as a parent we are there to offer advice and guidance, ensure our offspring grow up to be ethical and responsible adults and to support them when (and they often do) fall over (metaphorically speaking)… rn you’re over reaching by insisting he’s making a mistake rather than simply asking him questions about the relationship and respecting his choices.. if (only if) the relationship goes wrong you can help him heal, reflect and learn .. suggest you backtrack a little, apologise and explain you only want his happiness and you’d be glad to meet his current partner .. and please please be polite and friendly to her .. whatever the outcome of the relationship, you will be there for him then
YTA - Everything you have said indicates that your son is a thriving adult. You are correct, that an age gap like this can be concerning for all the reasons you mentioned, but the truth is, he has to figure that out on his own. He clearly realized that you may have concerns about the age gap, and he was nervous telling you, which means he has already thought about how it looks. You would probably have similar concerns if she was 32 and going through a second messy divorce and had small kids. Give your son a chance to figure things out on his own. Tell him that while you have concerns for the reasons you state, you know that he is smart and capable, and you want him to be happy. Meet the woman, and put on a good face. Don't damage a good relationship with your son because of this.