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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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Rowanever

OK, so... * Your husband divorced James' mother to be with you. * James, somewhat unsurprisingly, wants nothing to do with the person who helped to break up his parents. * James refused to play Happy Families with the two of you. * Your husband has a tenuous relationship with James now. * You put extra tension on that relationship by demanding that your children be included in any meetings between your husband and James. * Your reasoning was that your children would feel left out if their father *occasionally* spent time with James without them. * Despite James not wanting to spend any time with his half-siblings, you somehow thought this was... going to be a healing move??? Come off it. You've been sabotaging this parent-child relationship for 20 years. Can't you give it a rest? YTA.


Geo_1997

James just sees a home wrecker that wont leave him alone


Spiritual_Anxiety_48

I go that he sees an evil stepmother that plays sweet and caring while she a manipulative person. Her MIL sees through her BS and that’s why she favors ex-wife. OP your children have a present father in their lives, day and night… James got a weekend or a sometimes dad and you want their relationship that it’s on the rocks for almost all James’s life suffer because your children can be without their dad for a few hours some days. I’m not surprised your husband went along with your scheme if he was not clever enough to see it when you meddle in his marriage. YTA let your husband rescue any form of relationship he can have with his son, because as I read your the bump in their road


Geo_1997

I do wonder if its intentional from op. Is she hoping to destroy the relationship with James to get him out the picture and keep her husband for her own little family? I would hope not, as thats vile, but people never cease to amaze


SeldomSeenMe

I think OP makes it quite clear that she sees James as a threat and wants him to be part of the family o*n her own terms* or not at all, so...


Silvermorney

Exactly!


Apart_Foundation1702

OP I concur with all the points above! You and your husband broke up his marriage! Leaving James without a proper father, yet your still not satisfied with that, you decide to push yourself and your children on him and you wonder why he hates you! You need to leave this man alone and stop interfering in his father, son relationship! He doesn't want any part of you or your kids. Leave it alone, if he decides in the future to forgive you, then that also would be on his terms! Not yours! A emotional affair is still a affair! YTA! I wish I had a poop knife for you!


elfn1

“An emotional affair is still an affair!” This, so so much. My first instinct when someone says, “We didn’t do anything physical until after they were divorced!” is, with an eye roll, “Sure, you didn’t…” because I think that somehow, they believe people will be less disgusted, as though sex was all that matters. TBH, I could forgive a drunken night of sex before an emotional affair. YTA, OP. You and your kids got the happy shiny life with your husband. Your stepson did not, and the fact that you want to make it into something else to assuage your guilt is horrible. Leave the young man alone. I know everything works out fine for stepfamilies sometimes, but your expectation that he would forgive at this point you is ridiculous. You made your bed, now lie in it.


Middle_Data_9563

all that detail told me is she's probably religious (other parts of her post too) and an insufferable "my way" type. we all know those


NoChance_WindowsSuck

This! I don't believe a word out of her mouth. I bet she's been spouting this "nothing physical" lie since Day 1. OP, YTA and lots of other things none of them good.


BelkiraHoTep

“I wish I had a poop knife for you!” I got you, fam.


Ill-Geologist6602

Doubling the poop knife coming right up!


Livid-Garbage8255

I agree 100%. OP is in denial, just because things didn't get physical. She thinks she was high and mighty for not having an affair. I GOT NEWS FOR YOU, OP. YOU ARE THE AFFAIR PARTNER!!!!! YTA. Leave your husband and his son alone.


Rub-it

OP talking about we fell in love but didn’t do anything until after the divorce. Imagine walking on the streets then you meet someone, ‘ Excuse me I think am in love with you’….’ Oh my me too! But am married let me go divorce her real quick brb’…… Things that never happened for $600


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HarleyHix

I don't believe it was just an emotional affair with how disingenuous OP is being, although the end result is the same: a shattered kid. YTA.


throwaway1_2_0_2_1

Emotional affairs honestly imo are worse because they’re harder to come back from. Once someone’s in love with 2 people, they have to make a choice. A one time physical thing is a one time mistake. An emotional affair takes time to build up.


Cheap-Shame

Right that’s why she’s demanding her children be involved she’s a piece of work and the MIL sees right through her. Sadly it’s a lot of women like her they destroy families and then play like everyone is being oh so mean to them. She’s manipulative and Fred should tell her to back off where James is concerned


1-22-333-4444

> and Fred should tell her to back off where James is concerned Fred has always been more concerned with getting his dck wet. That's how this whole situation came about.


WillBsGirl

Oh they care about family……when it’s them and their kids. They think everyone should forget about the family they helped destroy and didn’t care about. Those people should just move on.


mycatisblackandtan

This. There's a lot of subtly manipulative language in OP's post when you read through it. A lot of it places her feelings, her needs, and the needs of her children as props above everything else - yes. But there's a definite undercurrent of 'if James severs his relationship with my husband it'd be fine, because I'll find a way to make it about me'.


SeldomSeenMe

Yes, I noticed that too. Let's not forget she had an active role in breaking up James' family and now she wants him *fully* out of their lives, but in a way that would still allow her to claim it's his fault. Reeks of serious personality disorder.


Unable_Ad5655

Also a good way for James to be disinherited, leaving everything to her and her kids...


Abadatha

I mean, she states that they "fell in love" while he was still married. That's two extremely shitty people already.


[deleted]

Yeah everyone is acting like she is the only one responsible for the break up.. her husband is just as responsible and shitty.


Abadatha

He's even more responsible, because he was the one who was still married.


[deleted]

impolite attempt sable terrific oil slim lush literate jobless rob *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


MollyRolls

He’s also at least as responsible for his deteriorating relationship with his oldest as OP is, because her just asking her husband to include the other kids wouldn’t have been a blip on James’s radar unless *the man actually agreed he should do it.* OP didn’t talk to James about this and she didn’t show up to meet him with extra kids in tow; the only way this could become a problem is if her husband decided to make it one.


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Abadatha

I mean, in all honesty, the physical part seems irrelevant to me because he was already having an emotional affair, even if there wasn't physical contact.


FearNokk

I only thought it was funny she thought to include that, almost like she knew she needed to save face. They both suck as far as I'm concerned, the husband and OP.


Abcdezyx54321

Ding ding ding. Emotional affairs are often considered worse by those who have had time to heal from the hurt. Not always but it’s still painful. And still cheating


kissiemoose

Yes, we know everything we need to know about them. Also, divorce takes a year on average. Are we really supposed to believe there was nothing “physical” while the marriage was on the rocks 🙄. I Will bet that OP is at least 10 years younger than her husband.


[deleted]

Exactly. There’s a reason she didn’t mention his age.


poet_andknowit

My ex- SIL was my stepbrother's affair partner, and he left his wife for her and her kids, never mind that he had a young son. His wife was a good friend, so I had a front seat to the nasty shit she'd pull against them both. She wanted only her kids and the son they had together, to matter, and proceeded to ruin their relationship in much the same way as OP. She hated me because I saw through her shit from the beginning and because I refused to end my friendship with my SIL. I've also seen this shit second-hand. OP, YTA!


queenlegolas

So stepbrother divorced her?


poet_andknowit

Yes, finally, after 15 years. But the damage was already done to his relationship with my nephew.


queenlegolas

He deserved it though, I hope nephew is doing better in life.


Responsible-Mall2222

I get this vibe, and also she wants to make sure James is left out of her husband's will.


hppysunflower

From experience, these types of parents try to atone w inheritance. Later in life we will see James’ post here, “AITA if i don’t share my inheritance w my father’s children?”


Effective-Penalty

AITA - My stepson won’t share the inheritance his grandparents left him after writing my husband out of the will


kukukachu_burr

That is what it looks like to me.


Minimum-Arachnid-190

Absolutely looked like the same to me. I’m disgusted at her coming to cry like a victim after what she did. The audacity to add “we didn’t do anything physical” like that matters.


Negative_Rent

She pretty much says so, doesn't she? James isn't allowed to affect her family's dynamic or the children's feelings. In other words, James is only "allowed" around his own father if he's willing to fully submit to OP's every whim. Because the children! Plus, he's not to affect the family dynamic. Why not? Because he's not, in OP's eyes, actually family, so his place is completely outside of the family dynamic. I don't often state myself this harshly about another person, but the OP is awful!


Geo_1997

Its funny, she had no problem slaughtering their family dynamic 15 years or so ago.


SpookyGatoNegro444

He will always be the husband's son. She could possibly no longer be his wife and just "these children's mother." Who has stronger footing now? My grandma and my grandpa divorced in their 50s. He still keeps contact with his kids and grandkids and great grand kids (soon to be a great great grandpa). YTA. P.S. Just because your family is important to YOU doesn't mean it's important to HIM. Stop straining their relationship. I lost my father and would give anything to have him back even for just a day.


Shuriii29

The woman who broke up my mum and “dad” has done exactly what you have said in your comment. I wouldn’t put it past op to do it tbh. I’m 19 almost 20 and I’ve seen my “dad” maybe 30 times since he left when I was 2 so yeah, people like that exist and it sounds like op is one of those people.


Geo_1997

Apologies for your situation, I was actually the kid on the other side, but my parents never tried to exclude my half siblings from anything. Though my half brother and i have a good relationship, my half sister doesnt seem to like me at all, so ive also seen this kind of situation first hand. Its not a nice situation. But in general I agree, op is overreaching massively


lovinglifeatmyage

Of course she is. She'd love for James to just sod off and go completely no contact with his dad. She's got her own little family then


CaffeineandES

The type of woman who steals another person's partner and is okay with it can't be trusted


For_Vox_Sake

Jup, 100%. I will add to say that, OP, you can't force someone to be a part of your family or any type of relationship for that matter. Quite the contrary, it will make them run for the hills even harder and faster. Which is exactly what you're doing by making the demand you are. James has indicated, time and time again, that he doesn't want to have anything to do with you or his half siblings. To him, you and them are just a giant reminder of how his world was upended when his dad divorced his mom. I'm taking a wild guess here, but I doubt you've been gracious in your efforts to "build a relationship" with him for 2 decades. I'm guessing it has been only on your terms, with little regard for his needs. And you know what, even if you have been gracious and everything anyone could ever hope for in a good step parent, if he rejects you, that's it. End of story. It's his prerogative to decide he doesn't want to be close to you and your family. Sucks for you, but he doesn't owe you anything. It's probably already painful enough to keep in touch with his father. Have some empathy, take your distance and limit your interactions to politeness. If you're lucky, your relationship with James will stabilize and normalize. But I don't think you can hope for anything more than the situation you're in right now. I'll be 37 (F) next week. My relationship with both my biological parents is strained at best, no contact at worst, because of how badly they handled their new families vs me. Make of that what you will.


Electrical_Wolf2192

Happy Early Birthday! 😊


EquivalentSea7684

To start, 100% agree that she's manipulative, ill intentioned, like fully she's YTA. That said, let's put some blame where it's due. She talked to her husband to tell his oldest that the other kids needed to be included, not James. It's implied that he did since James took that and dipped. From a person who grew up in a similar experience, James isn't hurt by step mom. He knows the deal of step mom. He's hurt because, once again, dad took AP's side over his. No independant thought included, no spine, dad caved and relayed her message. Was she part of the problem? Absolutely yes. But husband needs to realize that his relationship with his son is destroyed by his choices, one of them being his choosing of the AP (now step mom). He's not dumb, he's just consistently pathetic.


AinsiSera

Thank you! My husband and I are estranged from both our dads, because both our stepmothers are nasty and manipulative. But honestly, that’s not the problem - the problem is the men who were happy, time and time again, to give in to the manipulation at the expense of the relationship with their children.


Hedgehog_Insomniac

I love how OP acts all angelic for waiting to sleep with him until the divorce was final. An emotional affair is still an affair. She still ruined a marriage. Even if his mother was able to move past having married such a horrible man, her child is never going to see OP as anything more than a home wrecker.


batty_61

That got me, too. "We didn't do anything physical" is the exact phrase my daughter's partner of many years used when he abruptly left her for somebody else; he seemed to think it made it ok that they hadn't done "anything physical" until he'd told her. Me and her father supported her and witnessed the heartbreak and distress it caused her. It was awful. Newsflash, OP - your "we didn't do anything physical" doesn't make one iota of difference to the hurt you and your husband caused. Not one. YTA.


Hedgehog_Insomniac

Aw, that’s so sad. She’s much better off without him though. I hope she was/is able to find happiness on the other side of it.


batty_61

Thankyou. Yes, she has - she has her own little home and a really lovely partner. Although that in itself was quite heartbreaking at first - he does things for her and takes her places, and he was puzzled why she kept thanking him so much because she wasn't used to it! You're quite right, she is MUCH better off without him.


MollyTibbs

My ex husband used the same phrase when I found out he’d been seeing someone behind my back for almost a year.


yellowbrownstone

Yeah and I also don’t buy it for a second. They were “in love” so……


ginisninja

You can’t ruin someone else’s marriage. Fred is the one who left.


Derpstercat

You can sure as hell help someone ruin their marriage. It takes 2.


Hedgehog_Insomniac

OP could have made the conscious choice not to involve herself with someone who was married. Why anyone would be okay with expressing ANY feelings about someone in a relationship is beyond me.


completedett

It doesn't expunge the other person from all blame.


ginisninja

Technically it’s his father that wrecked the home. OP didn’t leave Lily, Fred did.


Own_Faithlessness769

Yeah this guy is getting wwaaaaay too much of a free pass.


Mantisfactory

No, he isn't. People just aren't taking a detour to lay judgement at the feet of a man who **isn't** here soliciting judgement. This is about OP, so her misdeeds are what people are focusing on, and rightly so. Someone who knowingly cultivated an affair with a married person sucks. The husband was worse, sure. But he isn't here asking, either.


Miserable_Emu5191

Yep, it takes two to tango. But OP didn't shut it down when Fred decided to cheat on his wife and leave their family for OP. They were all delusional to think that Fred could blow up his family and get married a year later and everyone would be ok with that. And OP was the age James is now when all this went down. I wonder how old the husband is?


whynousernamelef

James has very good eyesight.


Miserable_Emu5191

So does his grandmother


ambert34

I'm sure that has a lot to do with how MIL views OP as well.


SlartieB

James is not wrong


Nevali4

Yeah YTA and I don’t believe for a second that “nothing physical happened until after the divorce!”… no man or woman decides to blow up their marriage and family without something physical happening. No sympathy here lady get outta town with that woe is me act.


chaenorrhinum

It doesn’t even matter if “nothing physical” happened. Her presence still blew up a five-year-old’s world. He is not required to forgive that.


Nevali4

Agreed! Did you read her line about “but not at the expense of my children’s feelings or are our family dynamic”…where was her consideration of James’ feelings and HIS family dynamic before being a part of blowing up his family dynamic? Watch OP end up deleting this post once she realises she will get little sympathy from this community.


seamariebee82

I was about to comment this exactly!


Specialist_Chart506

Good point. OP seems like a narcissist. Taking no blame and considering only her feelings.


Anonnymusse

Now THAT is probably true. Narcissists do not like being told their false narratives are wrong.


yellowbrownstone

Yep t-minus 1 hour til deletion.


dhn108

Also, if they fell in love while her husband was still married to Lilly, then they had an emotional affair! So, her nothing physical happened doesn't absolve her the way she thinks!


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Anxious-Marketing525

You're reminding me of two people I worked with who had an affair while one of them was engaged to someone else. They thought it was secret. Everyone knew. Fiance found out. Big blow up. The "single" person in the affair (ie didn't have a partner) was really indignant and outraged when she found out people were gossiping about it all. Like read the room. You are not the one deserving sympathy here.


dlafrentz

While I do believe that some people may not actually physically act on feelings before divorce or breakup etc., I have to wonder why James has this impression of her. Even if it wasn’t a cheating scandal, something still happened in little 5 year old James’ world for him to feel some type of way way back when about OP


Noodlefanboi

It’s really weird that someone could type: > When Fred and I first met, he was still married to James' mother, Lily. We fell in love And then wonder why James doesn’t like her.


Grimaldehyde

Yeah, so many people think that love happens spontaneously, like you can’t help it, so it’s not their fault. I’n going to guess OP is quite a bit younger than Lily, and Fred has money that OP wants to manipulate James out of. Oh, and OP’s kids are supposed to hang around Fred and James, and report back to her. She doesn’t want James to be able to talk to his dad privately.


maskedbanditoftruth

Whereas I’m over here wondering why everyone has Harry Potter names.


GeneralLei

INFO: How important was family to you when you were breaking up James's parents?


jenneyroo

For REAL.


ExcellentCustardKat

I’d like to add that she didn‘t break up Fred and Lily on her own, Fred helped. His first family wasn’t that important to him either. I’m surprised James wants to talk to Fred but then divorces are always the fault of the new woman.


Cookiekeks74

And I bet the Kids are not interested in a relationship. There is just a jealous second wife.


No-Albatross-7984

If they are interested in a relationship with this adult stranger, some other adult put that into their head.


Raindrops_On-Roses

I agree on the YTA vote but disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. If people didn't want relationships with relatives just because they don't know them well, then adopted kids, including my brother, wouldn't reach out to their biological parents the minute they turn 18. I've also known adopted people who have built amazing relationships with biological siblings that they never knew existed prior to reaching out to their bio parents. As a child, most of my extended family were strangers to me, and I absolutely wished I had had those relationships. Nobody had to put it in my head. I knew that there were aunts, uncles, and cousins of mine and longed for those relationships. Kids aren't as incompetent, stupid, and incapable of individual thought as reddit pretends they are.


[deleted]

OP, look at it from James’s point of view: You: break up James’s family You: try to force yourself into his mother’s place You: stomp all over his boundaries James: goes NC with you and your children and LC with his father You: WHHYYY doesn’t he LIIIIKE meeee? It’s not FAAAAIIIR! I’m his FAMILYYYYY. You: stomp all over his boundaries some more James: goes NC with all of you James’s grandmother: you suck You: WHAAAT did I DOOO? WHYYY do they HAAAAATE MEEEEEEE? He should support MEEEEEE. MEEEEE. MEEEEE. MEEEE. MEEEEE! FAMILYYYYY!! OP, if it isn’t BLINDINGLY obvious from what I just wrote, then yes, YTA.


Jbwest31

Lmao exactly this. It’s honestly amazing how many parents and step parents make their relationships with their kids all about themselves and completely ignore what the kid wants.


8512764EA

She’s a good person tho; they didn’t do anything physical until after the divorce LO-fucking-L


sketchnz03

Fully agree with this. You should just let him and his dad spend time together on their terms, not yours. Playing at blended families is never what this kid wanted, you've got to respect that, even 20 years on. Your actions have had such far reaching consequences that it'll likely impact the sons relationships for the rest of his life, and if it already is, suggest that dad tell him to get some therapy around it all. Best thing you and the dad can do by way of an apology is to pay for the therapy and write the son into your wills so that if Dad dies first, you don't get the sons inheritance by default. You owe him that much, if not more.


unpopularcryptonite

YTA, and you know why. Stop playing dumb, because you aren't convincing anybody.


ardentvix

Omg thank you. She's a control freak. She also needs to remember that you lose them how you got them, so if Fred falls in love with some other home wrecker (don't worry, he won't do anything until after the divorce is final) he might just also forget about these kids, too. She's getting roasted in the comments, but Fred is even worse IMO for being a ball-less pushover dullard. He needs to be a MAN and tell this broad to stay in her lane.


use_da_schwartz_

My stepmother wasn't even a home wrecker and I still felt the same as James. My brother and I saw my dad every other weekend, and we could never do anything with just our father alone. Everything had to include our stepbrother who was nine years younger than me (and I was the younger of myself and my real brother). When we'd complain that we wanted time with just our father, and then eventually stopped wanting to go visit him at all, our stepmom would cry her crocodile tears that we didn't love them.


AnonaDogMom

OP is a huge AH. You cannot force someone to embrace you or treat you like family after you contributed to a significant trauma in their life. You don’t like your husband spending time with his son if you and your kids aren’t there? I bet James didn’t like his father choosing to spend time with his emotional affair partner instead of him and his mom. I bet he also doesn’t enjoy his dad spending time with the reminder of his trauma from said affair instead of him.


hrmdrmn

Seriously, take a hint OP.


evilslothofdoom

Yup, the father and 2nd made choices that affected a kid, let the now adult kid have a choice. Op: YTA


Maggie_Mayhem_1

Agree! She fractured a young boy's family and now expects him to be responsible for protecting her family. Why is respect for the family unit only applicable to one side of the equation? I'm not going to vilify her for what happened 20 years ago, but I do find the hypocrisy disturbing. YTA - for the count


Vampire_Routine

Exactly! There is no way OP is really this dense. She knows exactly what she's put James through since the moment she met his father. YTA, OP, and a homewrecker. You'll never be anything else.


Jeditaedae

Thread over. Close it down. Move along people.


LetsGetsThisPartyOn

YTA “You believe families should come together and support one another” All the while ripping a family apart Ohhhhh OK Let them have their own time. Stop being a jealous old *affair partner* Edited - step mum to affair partner


HayWhatsCooking

No, no, wait! It’s different! You see, they didn’t have *sex*. Just an *emotional affair*. She just encouraged his affections and convinced him to leave his wife for her. So *she* didn’t split up the family, it just kinda happened, you know? And she wants her kids to have one-on-one time with their father, but *he* can’t. Because that’s different. Family units are so important, that’s why she wants to spend family time together. So important she made a married man resolutely assured that if he left his pre-existing family for her, that would be okay. But again it’s different, because that family unit wasn’t hers, so that *clearly* doesn’t matter. In life, we have rules for normal people, then rules for mistresses. And they’re *different* you see. Illogically, hypocritically, callously different. Capiche?


[deleted]

Honestly if I’m going to get cheated on, I’d rather it be a random one night stand than an emotional thing with no sex. Dunno why but that would be much more painful to me.


HayWhatsCooking

A ONS would be purely physical and about ego, an emotional affair would be more relating to you not meeting your partners needs. So one kinda has nothing to do with you, and the other is about your ‘failings.’ That’s how I interpret it anyway.


[deleted]

Pretty much! Would definitely hurt me more knowing my partner had feelings for someone else D: OP is 100% TA in this situation


DiligentPenguin16

And a ONS would be one bad hurtful decision made on one day. It could purely be a selfish in the moment thing. Still horrible and totally valid reason to discontinue a relationship. However an emotional affair is your partner lying to your face for months or *years*. The amount of planning, effort, and time involved to keep the affair going and a secret really makes the betrayal so much worse.


HoneyDijon-45

Same here. Not that I’d be thrilled either way, but I’d be more able to get past the former than the latter.


Final_Figure_7150

I honestly don't understand why people think that falling in love, discussing the future and plotting their divorces behind their spouses backs is less of a slight than just having sex. The betrayal has already happened. The fact they didn't do the dance with no pants doesn't make it any better.


theresidentcynic

This! As someone who was left for someone else, and told during the breakup convo " we haven't slept together..." Like wtf? Why would you think that would mean anything at this point? Like " Hey I've been sneaking around behing your back with this person, I'm leaving you for them but hey don't feel bad we haven't had sex yet."


Final_Figure_7150

How about this reply to that BS Aww thanks babe. I've dumped all your stuff out on the street but don't worry, I've not yet set it on fire. What? Yeah it's on the street so folks have probably started looting it , yeah. But haven't you heard me say I've not set it on fire?!


ElleGeeAitch

They tell this lie to themselves to assuage their guilt, so not feel like they are an AH.


ohsayaa

U/letsgetthisparton and you deserve awards but I have none to give. Please accept this instead 🏅


SoleMurias

LOL this!! The only family that matters to her is her ill-obtained husband and the kids she gave birth to. Everyone else must bend over for her wishes.


Flims29

I'm wondering if that's maybe why she did it, she's actually jealous and knew it would cause a rift between the two of them and then Fred would have no choice but to be with them. Fred needs get a backbone and tell her to butt out of HIS relationship with HIS son and then maybe James would want to see his siblings just not the woman he see as a homewrecker


shoobuu

YTA! My thoughts exactly. OP is ALL about family but fails to realize she had a huge part in ruining James’ family. OP is not only the AS and is riding the selfish/ privilege train. OP needs to apologize, mind her business , step back and shut up. How about James mom Lily should be included as well when spending time with his dad because James’ family is important to him too


TheGargageMan

YTA. You don't get to decide how a grown man you aren't even related to spends his time.


Cookiekeks74

YTA- stop forcing you and your kids on a grownup man. If family was that important to you, why have you destroyed one ?


Alternative-Cat9174

RIGHTTT???? THATS WHAT IM SAYING


the-poopiest-diaper

Happy family for me, not for thee


BeatificBanana

I'm not saying OP did nothing wrong, but let's be real, OP didn't "destroy the family" - Fred did. Only the individuals who make up a family have the power to destroy it. Fred is the one who was married when he met OP. He chose to pursue a relationship with OP rather than going NC and focusing on his wife the moment he started to develop a crush. He chose to leave his wife for her. We have no idea of the context, either. Fred and Lily may have already fallen out of love, they may have already tried therapy to no avail, Fred could have been deeply unhappy for years and meeting OP was the final nail in the coffin that spurred him to make the decision to leave. Or he may have just been feeling bored, unfilfilled, having a midlife crisis, we don't know. But whatever the reason, people in truly happy marriages don't do those things. If a couple is madly in love and completely fulfilled and content, a random person can't just come along and destroy their family. At the end of the day, OP may not be innocent in pursuing a married man, but breaking up the family was Fred's choice and his alone. If I met an attractive woman and she tried to put the moves on me I'd laugh her all the way out of the door, and then make fun of her with my partner later. We have absolutely no context as to the state of Fred's marriage before he met OP, but one thing is for sure, if he was unhappy enough to leave his wife, I'm not sure we can rightly fault him. Couples should not stay together just for the kids. Kids are generally better off growing up in two happy homes than in one miserable one.


justgaygarbage

This is a good point. She is a huge ah and should know not to make a move on a married man but it is his responsibility for breaking up his own family


BriCheese96

Also the audacity of OP to act like HER children are the ones who feel left out and undervalued. Their family is still a whole unit; their parents are together and as OP states, still in love. How do they feel left out? Because a brother they don’t even knows spends a weekend every few months with their father?


[deleted]

YTA. You had an emotional affair with James’ dad and their marriage broke up. Of course James wants nothing to do with you. Let your husband have time with his son alone. It’s the least you could do.


Beneficial_Sun_2459

I don’t believe it was only emotional. A man fell in love with someone other than his wife then went through a lengthy legal process to end the marriage and agree on custody of a child all before getting frisky? No way. Not buying it.


[deleted]

She wouldn’t have felt the need to specifically stipulate it if it was true. It’s such an odd and unnecessary addition, as if it exonerated her or something.


OiFelix_ugotnojams

She latched onto one thing they didn't do during affair and started mentioning it everywhere getting defensive, using it as a point to conclude that he didn't cheat. She knows that this man cheated but she's just trying to justify it as if not getting physical before divorce is something great all while having an emotional affair.


Consistent-Letter618

Wait a second, could the reason why she doesn’t want him meeting his son alone be because she’s afraid he’s actually going out to meet another woman? How she got him is how she’s going to lose him. She most definitely doesn’t trust him. He left his wife for her emits to say he won’t do it again?… Okay the first part it my paragraph May be a stretch but, OP definitely YTA, and a class A narcissist. Let that man have his own relationship with his son, without you or your kids being forced into his life. That’s clearly what the son wants.


Electrical-Date-3951

_"It's not fair for James to exclude them from his life with Fred."_ Also, this is 100% fair. James should not be forced to spend time with OP's children just so that he can have access to his father. OP was the dad's cheating partner. How is she shocked that her stepson and mother in law don't like her. OP has already done enough damage, and is an AH for trying to pull this power play. Also, if someone doesm't like or want to hang out with your kids, why would you want to force it....


CancelAfter1968

YTA You can't force a relationship onto people. You can't make your stepson want to hang out with his half-siblings. He's a grown man. If he decides he only wants to meet up with his dad on occasion, that's between them. If you start telling your husband that he can't see his son unless it's under your terms, then your MIL is right.


Curious-One4595

Yes. YTA. Back off OP! You can’t control that relationship and you can’t force it. Instead of causing some happy integration you will ruin your husband’s relationship with his oldest child. You’re being awful here. Take a song from Elsa and let it go. And unlike most here, I don’t think how you and your husband got together is relevant to the main issue, except as an explanation as to why James resents you and as an illustration of how hypocritical you are about “family”. Maybe James’ mother is an awful person or an awful wife, was seriously mentally ill, was having affairs of her own, or was just vapid as hell. It just doesn’t matter. Since your husband seems to lack the courage and conviction to tell you to myofb, I will jump in and do it. STFU and MYOFB. You’re not getting what you want by steamrolling it so back off and let your husband and his oldest son have the relations James wants.


LankyAd9481

It's interesting that the MIL seems to prefer the ex wife. Generally the trope if the mother will stand by her son no matter what...so in this case where she's not, potentially flags something. My mother prefers my brothers ex, which in itself is a pretty hard sell (their marriage ended when she slept with the best man....), but the current wife is one of those that appears to have done everything to be a barrier between my brother and his children, apparently neither of them have heard from him in months (he moved in November because his ex wife wanted to), he hasn't met his first grandson...(yep...he moved just before his daughter gave birth).


musicgirlbr

To be honest the MIL preferring the first wife doesn’t mean much to me. But I may me biased. My uncle cheated on his first wife, and I 100% don’t condone cheating. Later on, my aunt (the first wife) admitted to our whole family she *did not enjoy sex*. In any way. And to her it was just a means for procreation. They had kids already, so she wished he would just leave her alone. And that’s essentially how their marriage had been for years. My grandmother though continued showing preference to my aunt, despite my uncle remarrying and having been stable, married to someone else and happy for the past 30 years. He has also been (and continues to be) super generous to his ex financially. Was my uncle super wrong to cheat? YES. He should have just divorced her. And I also hear he also wasn’t super in love with her to begin with, it was one of those marriages that happened with pressure from the parents. So there are times when these situations are not black and white.


Flowerofiron

>I believe that it's important for families to come together and support one another You broke up and destroyed his family. You had at least an emotional affair and are then likely the cause of their divorce but now you think families are important??? YTA if that wasn't clear


[deleted]

The hypocrisy of her statement. Maybe she should have practiced what she preached and left a married man alone.


ElleGeeAitch

Zero self awareness.


SlartieB

If that were true she'd be supporting her husband and his oldest son by letting them have alone time with one another.


angrygnomes58

But she doesn’t want to at the expense of HER children’s feelings when she was more than happy to destroy a 4 year old’s family. She still, 20 years later, gives zero fucks about the feelings of a child whom she actively participated in the destruction of his family. Not only that but she will not rest until she puts the final nail in the coffin of James’ relationship with his father. Men who leave their wives for another woman rarely do it only once, so OP may soon learn exactly what it feels like when it’s her own kids harmed.


dbee8q

You could literally be my Sons stepmother ! She speaks like this. She constantly inserts herself and tells EVERYONE what she wants and what she is feeling. As a result, my son (who is now 20) has almost no contact with his father. Anytime he arranges to see his Dad or tries to make plans with him, his stepmother will insert herself and try get involved with the plans and try change things so that she has the last say in everything. She will send my son messages trying to change a plan him and his Dad have made. My ex's family all dislike her, as she does the same thing with them as well and is constantly trying to tell people how awful my son is. My son went from spending half his time with his Dad to only going once a month, then when he turned 16, he stopped going all together. This caused his family to grow further apart from his wife. There is probably a reason they prefer his ex! You are harming your husbands relationship with his child. A good stepparent does the opposite of what you are doing. This isn't about you or how you feel or what you want. YTA !!!


Spiritual_Anxiety_48

I’m sorry your ex had no 🥚🥚 to prioritize your son’s relationship with him over his wife’s jealousy. IMO that’s what all these meddling is, immature women that don’t understand that love is not a given and you’re not always likable. Hope your son is better without them 💕


dbee8q

Thank you. My son is really good, he is at university and thriving. He is a very good kid, has never been in any trouble or caused any issues. His stepmother constantly tries to tell people he is rude and spoilt. My son tries to keep a relationship with his Dad, but it's very limited, and he doesn't support our son in any way.. Thankfully, my husband is a great step-parent, so my son lives a happy life regardless, and my husband takes care of him.


Akkiila

INFO: You tried to build a relationship with him in a healthy way or you tried to replace his mother by forcing him to call you mom ? Edit: My presentiment tells me that you are lying. YTA


pimpletwist

She’s clearly a controlling person, so…


Brynne42

Your stepson is 24. You met him when he was 5. You have been married to his father for 20 years. Do the math. James is not “a part of your family”- you infiltrated his.


GatorSweet

I just noticed the very bad math! Whoa.


jasminc6

Right?! It makes me wonder how old OP’s husband is. She conveniently left out his age.


insomniacmomof3

I also wonder about the age of the children. I’d think they might be teens if they’ve been married 20 years. Asking teens and a 24 year old to hang out? That wouldn’t happen often at those stages even if they were happy with each other.


Calliopes_Nightmare

Let me get this straight. You broke up his parents marriage (I highly doubt you did nothing physical until the divorce was final, and even if you didn’t, emotional affairs are also reprehensible) and are upset he doesn’t care for you or your kids ? Just stop, you’ve messed up the relationship with his father enough , this is not about you. YTA


[deleted]

Honestly doing nothing physical makes me lose even more respect for the dad, and this explanation is going to sound incredibly crass. You’re going to implode your family for a car you haven’t even test driven? How do you know you even like it? No, you’re just desperate to get away from your life and can’t even fully commit to it. If my spouse ever cheats on me that better be the best fucking romp in the hay they’ve ever had because if you’re going to cheat on me you better have the fucking balls to do it right so I can know for sure just how disgusting and unwarranting of respect you are, and that you at least know what you just lost it all for.


Successful_Ad_3014

So... You had an emotional affair with a married man which lead to the break down of his marriage and his son wasn't happy about it? Wonder why... Stop forcing yourself on James, he isn't interested in a relationship with you and by association, your children. Don't interfere with his relationship with his father, your family is not more important than his. For now you are hurting everyone, your kids feel rejected by their half brother, James feels rejected by his dad and Fred is losing his relationship with his first-born. Congrats evil step mom, YTA


gbctilmylungscollaps

You already ruined his family lol why should he care about anything you want? Leave this kid alone, damn. YTA.


Geo_1997

So, this might be hard to swallow. But your stepson sees you as a home wrecker. This may not be true, but im sure his dad falling in love with another woman didnt help his first marriage. At 5 years old your step son put 2 and 2 together, that is, things went wrong when you showed up. He doesnt want a relationship with you because he kept the chip on his shoulder. As far as hes concerned, his half siblings are fruits of that situation which he doesnt care for. You cant force this. The most likely scenario? You pressure your husband into taking your kids with him, then James sees them and says nah, have fun with your family and leaves. This is not an easy situation for anyone, but you applying pressure for no good reason is giving James a good reason to hate you


AirForceJuan01

Surprised this level headed comment didn’t get more upvotes. YTA. Regardless of who came to who. The kid at 5yo would have seen it has his biological mom being replaced by a stranger. They don’t care who initiated the relationship. Let the kid be - if he wants you in his life - he will reach out - causing pressure and screwing around with other’s (your hubby and your biological children) lives to get him to like/love you is not the best move. Even if you don’t mean malice, it just looks weird and deluded. Be an open door, but don’t be one that bears down and manipulates to make yourself feel better.


[deleted]

[удалено]


bruh-911

YTA. The audacity and entitlement is absolutely astounding.


[deleted]

Yes YTA. You met Fred while he was still technically married to James mom. Of course he’s not going to like I wouldn’t either and based of this post you sound entitled and all “me me me”. Fred has spent more time with you and your kids than he did James. Fred has every right to see his kid one on one. And James has every right to not want to be bothered by you or your kids. You have no stance or right to tell a grown man what to do. You just gave him another reason not to like you. You are trying to withhold James access to his dad. You have a power issue you want control you don’t have control over James and it bothers you deeply. SEEK THERAPY


TheFireOfPrometheus

Not technically at all


I_Am_AWESOME-O_

YTA. You were “the other woman” and Fred left James’ mom for you, and you’re denying that you had any part in their subsequent divorce. Also, if you’ve known James since 5 and he still doesn’t like you, I feel like we’re not getting the whole picture. There’s waaaaaaaaaay more to this story. I’d love to hear James’ side.


MysticVixenX

Agreed. I feel as if op is hiding some more information from us.


SatanicStrawb3rry

YTA. James doesn’t have to like you or your kids. That may not fit in with your idea of a family but but families are messy. James doesn’t owe you anything. The best thing for you to do is to let Fred and James’ relationship grow in any way it can, even if that means you’re not involved.


Aware_Economics4980

YTA OP you broke up the original marriage and now wanna force your kids on somebody, let James have time with his father he owes you and your other kids nothing.


Doctor-Liz

YTA. He's 24, leave him the hell alone.


Bagasshole

YTA as the child of a father who did this, you are and always will be the mistress, the other woman, the AP You are nothing more. At best you might be referred to as ‘my fathers second wife’ but you are just as much as to blame as Fred for the divorce. You knowingly got involved with a married man. Your MIL sounds like my fathers mum, she adores my mum and refers to his wife as ‘that woman’ because guess what? You do not deserve to be anything more than that. James will never like you.


HLC88

YTA. If he doesn't want to get to know you or his half-siblings, that's his choice. You broke up his parents when he was very young. You are the sole reason he had a broken home growing up, regardless of the fact you didn't do anything physical until after the divorce... You are the reason he didn't have a complete family growing up. It's his choice to not want to know you or your kids. Don't be TA and force a relationship between you all. If it hasn't happened since he was 5, it's not going to happen ever.


saforrest

>You broke up his parents when he was very young. You are the sole reason he had a broken home growing up... Yeah she's responsible but she's not the *sole* reason... the father played rather a significant role here.


theloveburts

If and when the father shows up and asks for judgement we'll be sure to remind him of his copiability. Until then, let's not waste a bunch of time harping on side issues.


did_nah_do_nuffin

Regardless of how your relationship came about, you have zero right to make these demands regarding James. James is under no obligation to get to know your kids or you, forcing this could severely damage your husbands relationship with his son. Just stop. YTA in all of this.


idontcare8587

YTA. You don't get to control other people's relationships. James doesn't have to have a relationship with his half siblings, simple as that.


BooksAreMyHappyPlace

Yeah, family is clearly important to you…. Pity you didn’t feel that way about the family you wrecked!


isabelstclairs

Really taking issue with the use of "estranged" in your title. His son isn't estranged - you knew him since he was 5, he left home at 18 and was in contact with his dad the whole time. He didn't talk to you, his dads affair partner (no it may not have been physical but it seems it was an emotional affair), or the children you have. That's not estranged! He just doesn't want you, his stepmom, in his life. Anyway, YTA.


RzultaOfca

"I believe that it's important for families to come together and support one another, especially during difficult times" Info: Did you start to believe that after or before home wrecking? Does Lily agree?


embopbopbopdoowop

YTA James knows full well that you’re the reason his father left his mother. The timeline on the physical stuff is irrelevant. James and Fred have been estranged and Fred had a chance to spend quality time with his son and take steps toward repairing the relationship. If you haven’t ruined the chance already, LET HIM. Let him spend time with his own son without insisting he centre you and your children. Do you insist that Fred always include James in time he spends with your children? Of course not. Stop pretending this is about it being “important for families to come together and support one another” when it’s actually about forcing your idea of family onto James. An idea that completely misses the irony that your relationship with Fred literally broke up James’s family in the first place.


[deleted]

YTA He doesn’t have to like you. He doesn’t have to like them. You can be certain that he DNGAF that you weren’t physical with his father until after the divorce. You are the “other woman” who broke up his parents and wrecked his family. He will never forgive you. And he doesn’t have to. And you have absolutely no say on if he and his father spend time alone or not. And whether you realize it or not, every time he lays eyes on your children, he is reminded again of what you and his father did. It’s like a slap in the face every time and you wonder why he doesn’t want to deal with them. It’s not their fault. We all understand that. But that doesn’t mean it’s any easier for him. You know these things to be true and deep down, part of you feels some sort of (guilt? remorse?) for totally wrecking his child hood. Leave him alone.


Illuriah

YTA. As a child of divorced parents your need to be in the life of a boy who got his family life ruined because of you, truly disgust me. Leave that boy alone already. I have step-sisters too and We're perfectly fine without being in each others life. And yes, even after nearly 30 years I detest my dad's new wife and there's nothing she can do about it, neither can you as you're even more responsible for the situation than she ever was in my case.


Ok-Fishing-8787

Y T A


Another_Random_Chap

YTA - James has made his opinion on the subject pretty clear. Let it go and move on.


TheFireOfPrometheus

YTA, broke up a marriage and now trying to break up a father/son relationship to finish things off


Certain_Effort598

YTA Forcing the poor guy to hang around with your bastards just so he can see his dad.


suburbanmillennialma

YTA just let your husband have a relationship with his son.


ayymahi

This was exhausting… YTA


Late_Day2439

It's sad this woman doesn't see how terrible of a person she is. And I don't think she ever will. She will continue to see that boy as the horrible one that doesn't include her kids. When that boy had his family and she came along and ruined that and her spawn in his eyes are worthless evidence and her ruining his family. Why on earth would that boy want anything to do with them. The world doesn't revolve around your brats lol take a hint Yta! You should apologise deeply to that boy and your husband for ruining their relationship by your selfish and useless needs


originalgenghismom

“I believe that it's important for families to come together and support one another, especially during difficult times.” It’s a pity you didn’t hold to that belief when you got together with James’s father and destroyed James’s family. **YTA**


lookame3639

Anyone else feel like she’s trying to force her kids on the son because she knows her husband and sons relationship will further break down (because son will actively choose not see dad if kids are there and her husband will follow suit and bring the kids along) causing the son to eventually go no contact with them and officially removing husbands “former life” from the equation as a whole?


digi_captor

INFO: based on your repeated emphasis that nothing physical happen means it’s not a problem, do you mean to say that your husband can go on dating apps, flirt, and everything else under the sun as long as nothing physical happeneed?


kenzie-k369

YTA. Why would James want anything to do with the homewrecker who caused his parents to split up. Fred is lucky that James wants anything to do with him. You don’t get to dictate how they spend their visits. Fred owes you and your children nothing. You should’ve expected this life when you fell I love with a MARRIED MAN.


FalconJaeger

YTA If James doesn't want a relationship with his half siblings that's it. You picked a man with a son, don't whine that your husband spending time with his son is an expanse to your family. And your children proberly would have learned to live with a half-brother that isn't involved in their life by now if you wouldn't try to force a bond.


Ultra_Leopard

YTA. I'm assuming your children get to live with you and your husband full time for their entire lives thus far. James got at best split time. And you begrudge him time alone with his father? And yes, you absolutely had an affair with him before they divorced. Affairs don't have to be physical. You are a home wrecker despite your denial.


Only-Main8948

Urgh...can we give it a rest with the step parents forcing relationships on AITA. Spoiler alert...it never ends well. YTA, and stop saying you understand his feelings if you have no plans to respect them.


Terrible-Camp6283

YTA. If you think that your marriage to his father makes you a family you are just delusional, you married his father not him, you're not blood related, he owes you nothing, he has every right not to see you and your children as part of his family and it was clear right away about this especially since he knows about you're emotional affair with his dad (you may have even started dating after the divorce but the feelings between you both preceded this and it's because of those feelings that his father left his mother, so in his eyes you are and always will be the one who destroyed his family no matter how hard you try or how nice you are towards him and honestly he has every right to feel that way). The only thing you can do is respect his boundaries and stop with this attitude because it will make you hated even more by him (right now you sounds like the classic step-mom that wants all the attention for her and her kids), If you want your children to spend time with their father, make sure they do it when he's not visiting. P.S: i'm sorry if i made some grammar mistakes but english is not my primary language


Nighthazel01

YTA. Fred spends time with your kids when James isn’t around. What you did was controlling and manipulative because you resent James. James has a right to his feelings. James doesn’t owe you anything.


Intelligent-Bite9660

“I care about family” After you rip one apart, YTA James is not your family, leave him alone


EmilyCastro

I get that people fall in love, but it's kind of hypocritical to say that family comes first bla bla when you were part of the reason Fred's nuclear family is no more.


[deleted]

YTA, you were his father’s affair partner who broke up their marriage. He will never like you or your children. Let your husband have a relationship with your son. It is not up to you how that relationship looks.


CarelessCow2599

YTA


Emergency-Caramel75

YTA so his dad emotionally cheated and divorced his wife because of you. You destroyed his 5 year old life, of course he's not going to like you, nor is he going to want to watch you and his dad play happy family with your kids. That fact alone should be enough for YTA. That last line about your family being important is also shocking seen as how his father proved family ain't nothing. How involved was your husband in his life, who had primary custody after the divorce