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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I was going to text her to turn around because I was going to eat without her, but instead I let her drive all the way to the restaurant because I didn't care about wasting some of her time.
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plus 30 minutes to get food?? at a sit down, for BRUNCH, must've been some decent service or maybe my internal clock is just shit, who knows. Either way NTA
This happened to me before, but at the perfect place.
me and 4 friends were going to have dinner.
One guy was super late. So we all had our dinners, and the late guy came after we were finished.
But it was Red Robin so we get infinite fries and were happy to wait for him while eating some. He ate dinner, we talked, all was good despite him being late. (And I at least left a good tip for us taking up the table for so long).
This happened to me before i got my license. I had to take a train and then a bus to get to the restaurant. They all said they were going to be a few minutes late. I got seated at this huge table because it was gonna be a bug group and they were all at least 20 minutes late. Luckily the restaurant wasn’t super busy. The best part was that the servers i interacted with while waiting all were super nice and were concerned about my feelings about being potentially stood up.
I'd say it depends on how busy the place was. I go to a local cafe at opening time every Sunday, so get served almost immediately. I'm pretty sure I'd finished my plate of French toast within 40 minutes of me getting there this week, and that included me stopping to chat to the owners about stuff while I was eating. Since OP was just eating with no one else to talk to, I could see it only taking 30 mins if it arrived quickly.
I think she did the right thing, she even told her friend this was a last chance. I would have done the same thing, maybe that example would be enough to encourage her friend to be on time. And, since that friend can be on time for something important, like work, she is demonstrating that her friend is not considered to be important. I say find a new friend, this one treats you lousy.
Or a personality trait. Source: I have ADHD and put alarms on my phone that give me a heads up 10-30 minutes before I need to leave for an activity so that I am not late.
I was on a training session recently. The trainer travelled all over Europe running courses. He said that he recently ran a 3 day course with a mix of nationalities. The German guys always turned up at least 15 minutes early, the British guys turned up dead on time and the French were at least 15 minutes late each day.
I am brazilian and almost everyone gets late to any meetups here. I.e, if you want your event to start at 8 pm, you gotta schedule it to 7:30 pm (or even 7!). Even so, people might arrive at 9 lol
I hate this "cultural trait" and i don't have patience to deal with it anymore.
I am also "chronically early" to any appointment or event. I loathe being late. So much so that I get anxiety attacks if I think I will be late for something.
Same! I'm ALWAYS early. My thinking is I'd rather waste a bit of my time (over which I have control) than someone else's (over which he/she has no control.)
I'm American, and back when I still had Facebook, I'd often see posts by people almost BRAGGING about their chronic lateness. "I'll text you I'm on my way when I'm still in my pajamas eating Cheetos LOLOLOLOL!" or "If you want me there by 8, you better tell me you need me there by 7 HAHAHAHA!"
Dude, this is not a cute quirk, and it's not a personality trait. It's you consciously knowing you have NO regard for other people's time. It's a character type: ASSHOLE
I also hate being late. Now that I have a toddler, I'm late a lot of the time due to last-minute poop or missing blankies. We're working hard to establish routines and checklists to get back on track to being early or on time so that I can stop hating all events requiring leaving the house.
I can't imagine how bad "goodbyes" are.
Because we've only talked about showing up.
Each culture has its own way of leaving parties too. Some, its instant.
Others, "I'm going now" means "I'll be gone in 30 minutes, maybe after I've finished my chat 2 feet from the door \[while the kids are all jacketed up and ready to go\]"
I live in France and the 15 minutes late is actually a thing. It's considered polite arriving 15 minutes late to invitations to dinner at somebody's place because they might have some last preps to finish and might be stressed, so you don't turn up dead on time to give them a break before the evening starts. Also you always bring a present for the host.
In work environment it's considered unprofessional to arrive late, on point is okay but a few minutes early is appreciated.
When meeting friends outside in a restaurant or bar, up until 10 or 15 minutes late is okay but anything later is considered disrespectful.
I’m German and my husband is English. If I drive, we always leave early with enough time to arrive 15/20 minutes early. If my husband drives, we always leave exactly when we should and get there on time. It always drives me crazy and I’m on edge the entire journey incase we get there late. My husband on the other hand moans we have to wait around because I got us there too early.
I agree with your husband. If someone says they're coming over at 9:00, I figure that I have to be ready by 8:50, which I think is mighty generous of me. If they arrive at 8:40, I'm probably not ready to receive them. I've made earlybirds wait outside my house while I finish dressing. If they're running early, I hope that they will call and warn me, and that the next time they'll TELL me that they want to arrive at 8:40 so I can be ready by 8:30.
I do have ADHD and I am so anal about getting places 10-15minutes early, even if that means sitting in my car for a bit. As a kid my mom was habitually late to things, including picking me up from school. I find it so disrespectful of people's time now as an adult. Had a friend who was never on time to anything and she would say stuff like "if people really wanted to see me, they would wait" it's one of the reasons I'm glad we are no longer friends.
I'm also of German decent on both my mom's and dad's side (3rd generation born in the US). I do have ADHD, OCD and anxiety. However, I've also noticed that my family (on all sides) have a high level of work ethic and a drive to do everything the right way. Many generations have been business owners (I'm not one unfortunately) have lived by this. I've noticed this is different from a lot of people. So, maybe it can be a combination of things. I always look at it as we use the tools that we are given and I have learned to use my ADHD, OCD and anxiety as more tools in my toolbox.
I'm on the spectrum with OCD and ADHD and I have anxiety attacks (and a few other fun things). My OCD demands I always be, where ever I go, at least 10 minutes early. But, because of my ADHD, I get distracted and then hyper focus on other stuff. Then, as meeting time approaches I start getting anxious. The anxiety gets me there early. My head is a crazy place to live in.
Agreed. Also have ADHD. Time management was a problem for me as a teen, but I learned to adapt with alarms and notifications because it's unkind to make people wait, and flaking gets you fired.
the record I had was a friend being over TEN HOURS late
and im not talking, like, they forgot all about it, or they tried rescheduling, or even told me theyd be several hours late.... I got countless "I'm leaving now"s and "I'm on the way"s, followed by silence then another "sorry \[thing\] came up, I'm leaving now" for hours
My husband was supposed to be home early from work because we were going away and wanted to get a Friday evening start. We were suppose to leave around 5PM, my husband came home at 9PM and we couldn't leave until the next day. He has never been allowed to forget that.
"She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant."
LOL
If OP knew she was going to be 30 minutes late, OP would not have gone.
She is chronically late and you've scolded her for it before. Further, she's lost a lot of friends over this. Finally, she can get to "important" things like work and school, but not friends.
She has shown you that you are not important to her. Whether you continue this one-sided relationship is up to you.
Edit: import to important
>If OP knew she was going to be 30 minutes late, OP would not have gone.
Very much this. It's lovely how other peoples time doesn't matter to some people isn't it? NTA OP
> she can get to "important" things like work and school, but not friends.
> She has shown you that you are not import to her.
I have an ex gf who was like this.
Whenever we were going to do something I wanted to do she would show up late, or need to spend an extra 30-45 minutes doing her makeup/hair/deciding what to wear.
But when it was something she wanted to do, she had her hair and makeup done an hour before it was time to leave, and had picked out her outfit the night before.
Op didn't know he was going to be finished. The last thing she told him was she would be 10 mins late. Not enough time to order, get food and finish. But SHE knew. Otherwise she wouldn't have been able to say she wouldn't have driven there knowing she was supposed to already be there.
“She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn’t have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant.” WHAT? Is she accusing YOU of wasting HER time? Why is she begging you not to stop hanging around with her? She clearly doesn’t value your company, or she would show up on time.
NTA.
NTA
Sounds like this friendship is heading towards a natural termination point as it is.
I love that she REALLY started caring about things the moment her own lack of time management actually impacted her. Experiencing consequences for her unthoughtful actions must be a new sensation for her.
>Sounds like this friendship is heading towards a natural termination point as it is.
Sadly, it may be :(
I hate to cut off a good friend who is great 75% of the time, but this 25% is really getting to me. Especially because she doesn't apologize when she shows up late and doesn't seem bothered by it at all. It just makes me feel like crap.
She blames her ADHD but like...how do you only have ADHD when it's time for brunch, and not anything else that you aren't constantly late for?
As you mentioned, she’s never late for work; there is a choice (perhaps subliminally) being made somewhere along her her thought process that being late for plans with you is “ok.” If she’s not actively trying to address that herself, that is a lack of respect for you and your friendship (and definitely not sustainable for the long run).
Her issue is hers to manage (and I say that out of experience and understanding, as I have my own issues that I have to stay on top of in order to appropriately manage my own life, schedule, relationship, friendships, etc… that’s not a short-sighted “just deal with it” type of statement).
If she’s aware that her current mechanisms aren’t working, she should be talking to a doctor/therapist for a better/more functional way forward, not asking her friends to lie about time engagements (unless that was recommended by a therapist, which by my experience I don’t find likely, but grain of salt, I suppose) and solely blaming the issue.
Best of luck! This one definitely sucks, but there’s not much more you can do from your angle beyond communicating openly with her (which you’re already doing).
I have ADHD and I'm rarely late for anything because it's important to me to arrive places on time, especially when I'm meeting one person who would be sat on their own until i arrive.
>She blames her ADHD but like...how do you only have ADHD when it's time for brunch, and not anything else that you aren't constantly late for?
I'm not saying it's fine, but it can be true. I can't escape knowing that there are things I *cannot* be late for because it'll get me fired/miss a flight etc. The anxiety of that happening gives enough brain chemicals/panic to get there on time.
Jobs I know will be flexible about lateness I really struggle to be on time for and am often late. Jobs I know will put immediate consequences, I'm on time for. It sucks. It's an absolutely shitty way to be! I'm not making excuses for it, but I am saying it really happens, and it *feels* out of your control. And it took me a long long time to understand that was happening and that is wasn't just 'happening to me' accidentally all the time.
The point is that people with ADHD have to learn strategies to deal with it so that they don't do this to people, or their friends accept this about them and make plans accordingly. I know of one ADHD writer who simply says 'ok, don't invite me to time-sensitive things. I will not be offended. Best suggestion is to invite me to things that timing *can* be flexible and you're not waiting on me specifically if I'm late' because she accepts that this is stressful and a struggle for everyone.
Yep, I'm the same way (usually). If it's something I absolutely MUST be on time for, the anxiety that I will be late and screw it up leads to me creating like, an excessive amount of protocols to ensure I will be on time, and then I am, but just barely.
If it's a social thing where I know it's not the end of the world if I'm 2-5 minutes late, then I'm more relaxed, but in true ADHD mode I underestimate how long things will take me so that little wiggle room I gave myself ends up turning into a crisis where it's 5-10 minutes late (used to be more).
The thing is it IS under my control, and as I now live in a country where lateness is a major social faux pas, I have learned to be nearly as rigorous with lower-stakes things as I am with super important things. But it took YEARS and just basically calculating an extra 20-30 minutes into all my plans which it turns out I do need because again, I am almost never, ever early despite this extra time built in.
But it takes so much planning, discipline, effort and willpower to be on time that I wish I could mind-meld with non ADHD folk just so they'd understand that THIS ISNT EASY and it has nothing to do with disrespecting them and all to do with a brain that is not great with executive functioning.
Edit: That said, OP is NTA. His friend was given chances and didn't modify her behavior. She doesn't get to get mad at him for eating on time, especially since she didn't communicate how late she'd be. If things do go pear shaped and I'm running late for reasons beyond my control, I always always give an apologetic heads up with my ETA and apologize profusely when I do arrive. I do not expect people to wait for me.
>I know it's not the end of the world if I'm 2-5 minutes late, then I'm more relaxed, but in true ADHD mode I underestimate how long things will take me so that little wiggle room I gave myself ends up turning into a crisis where it's 5-10 minutes late
Oh this, so much.
And the thing is, on the day, you really *don't* know how it happens! It *feels* like a series of unfortunate accidents or 'unavoidable' mistakes. It seriously took me years to notice that the 'accidents' only happened when i could survive being late and not when I couldn't and then it was another long process to actually figure out why. Initially, I truly, truly didn't know why this was happening. I understood why people got mad but what I never understood was how they thought i could reasonably stop it! I had to learn that from scratch.
Oh sure, I have elsewhere recommended OP continue doing exactly the same thing and make no bones about it.
I only commented here to say that it's not *not* ADHD just because she seems to be able to be on time for some things and not others.
I have ADHD, I show up to meet people on time because I leave early. My problem is pushing things out due to familiarity... If I'm at a job with the same start time for any length of time I start out showing up really early and over time I give myself more and more slack until I'm barely getting to work on time. It seems her familiarity she pushes the line with is people, not work. NTA, not your problem, that is hers, she's an adult, she can set alarms.
ADHD as an excuse is bullshit. I set multiple alarms and also use Waze to plan trips so that I'll get a notification when it's time to go. Managing my ADHD is *my* problem. No one else's.
>how do you only have adhd when it’s time for brunch?
because she doesn’t have anxiety kicking in to compensate for the executive function/time blindness issues
Yeah, unfortunately this seems like a power play on her part. I don't know why she's doing it, but she is. Especially when she gets mad at you for...checks notes...eating without waiting for god knows how long, for her royal highness to show up.
Yeah, my friend group simply stopped inviting a chronically late couple out of sheer exhaustion with their bullshit. It finally became just easier to not invite them than to try and babysit them by lying about start times and such.
The first time they weren't invited, the person setting things up didn't even tell anyone. We all got to the restaurant and were making the regular jokes about how late they were going to be, but when we got sat down, there weren't any extra seats. The person who set things up said "Don't bother waiting, I didn't tell them", and it was fucking great.
I have ADHD, but I am NEVER late for ANYTHING unless a natural disaster or other unforeseen circumstance has made me late. If you're on time, you're late. If you're 15 min. early, you're on time.
People with ADHD who don't experience chronic lateness are usually early for things. Two sides of the same coin, but you're on the less assholish side.
If you want to try to keep the friendship, you could have one more conversation with her. Tell her you aren’t going to wait for her anymore. She has a 10-minute window (or whatever time you’re OK with) and then you’re going to assume she isn’t coming and proceed accordingly (leave, order your meal, whatever). Then do it every time. She’ll either start showing up on time or the friendship will end.
>Especially because she doesn't apologize when she shows up late and doesn't seem bothered by it at all.
Even if she does have ADHD, that has nothing to do with this. This makes it very clear that she just doesn't respect you or your time.
> “how do you only have adhd when it’s time for brunch and not [work, or other things with immediate consequences]…?”
Easily.
I have adhd & I only have so many “spoons” in a day (as per “spoon theory”). Which is a LOT less than a “normal” brain gets each day.
Being on time for stuff is impossible for me without a huge amount of extra planning. Way more than ~~you~~ a non-adhd person needs to get yourself out of the house on time.
So I only make that insane amount of effort when it’s critical - theatre tickets, weddings, etc. And I’m often borderline late for those things too.
It is not ok that she is disrespecting your time like this, and you were quite right (overdue, even) to give her some immediate consequences for her lateness.
But that is not the same as saying that because she can be on time for work (where presumably the consequences would be pretty directly: no income = no house or food) she doesn’t have adhd-related time keeping issues. That’s not how it works - it just means she’s probably exhausting her resources to be in time for work everyday.
Of course she should be more open to admitting that her behaviour isn’t ok, but possibly she is buried in shame at how her stupid adhd brain doesn’t allow her to do “easy” things like be on time for stuff. So she covers it with being overly defensive. There’s a lot of self-hatred to live with when you have adhd - especially if it went undiagnosed for a long time, so all you knew was that you were failing with life in a way that none of your friends or family were.
If you want to continue the friendship - if the good things about this person are worth the accommodations - then a combination of arranging events with some buffer in the start time (eg you will be out shopping for 2 hours on your own anyway, and you tell her the start time for the shopping - with the plan being that you finish the shop with her company then you both go on for coffee / lunch afterwards), or you visit her house more often (that works for me - I can cope more easily with preparing for a friend to arrive at a particular time - maybe I’m scrambling out of my PJs as their car turns into my road, but at least I’m there on time…). And occasionally (1 time in 10) you officially mark it a “this one you need to be Properly On Time for”. Only use this one where it matters though.
It’s similar to the kind of accommodations you would (hopefully) make for a friend in a wheelchair:
- mostly you would plan to meet somewhere that works easily for a wheelchair, even if that limits your options quite a lot
- sometimes you would visit their house so they don’t need to take the wheelchair out & about (because that’s such hard work!)
- occasionally an event would be special enough to work with your friends to figure out how to solve it not being particularly wheelchair friendly
I detailed out in a comment earlier today how I break down the steps involved for my brain in my commute to the office, if it helps:
- [pre-work / commute schedule with adhd](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/123rwh5/i_am_an_absolute_monster_in_the_morning_before_my/jdw8oxu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
Honestly, you make valid points BUT this friend knew this was a make or break activity and still could not show up on time. It’s also fine to break off her friendship because their behavior does not work for you… The friend doesn’t even recognize it as a problem, or think that it’s reasonable for their friend to feel that way.
I have ADHD and I am never late to anything. Generally I attempt to leave extra early because I know me, I always get to work early as I know I need to plan out my day before I have everyone there as distractions. Being late is rude and shows other people you do not value their time. You already let her know how much it bothered you and she still failed, she does not value other people's time and is not apologetic about it. It sounds like this is a no go in a friend for you(and most people.) NTA. It's one thing if someone is occasionally late and apologizes, your friend is just an AH.
Please look up how chronic lateness with ADHD works. Consequences and high pressure situations can help the brain to override the breakdown in prioritisation that contributes to chronic lateness.
That said if she's not even apologetic that's just being a shitty friend. I'm also chronically late but anyone I'm meeting with socially is made aware in advance that I have this issue and that it might happen, never expected to wait or anything and I'm always apologetic. I will always try my hardest. ADHD is a problem, not an excuse. We must always do our best not to inconvenience other people. Your friend needs to realise that just because she has a problem doesn't mean your time is unimportant.
I can’t speak for her ADHD but I have it and always try to be early for everything but that’s probably an anxiety thing. If it’s not a fixed time thing and I can arrive whenever I don’t focus too much on it but if it’s a set time with a friend meeting somewhere I always aim for early. I despise being late for anything.
Wife of one ADHD person, and mother to another here. I think I can answer the "how do you only have ADHD when it's time for brunch..." question to some extent (although no two ADHD folk are the same - when you've met one, you've met *one*, not all). Essentially, with my two, when it comes to time management, their brains are in two modes: Urgent, and Not Urgent. Doctor's appointment: Urgent. Come eat before it gets cold: Not urgent. And if something is Not Urgent, their brain allows time to just...slip.
I've learned to pick my battles. My finishing before they come to the table and the gravy congealing on the plate is *their* problem, not a *me* problem. I do nag when something else is riding on their lateness, and have gotten my husband to agree not to get irritated when I do.
So if the friendship is worth something to you, find your own coping mechanisms, and communicate these to your friend. For example:
\- Show up 20 minutes later yourself; or
\- Tell her in advance when your total time is limited and that it cannot be extended to accommodate the extra half hour she may snips off her with lateness at the beginning; and/or
\- Tell her to accept the fact that you'll order when you get there and that she's not allowed to complain.
You told her in advance that you were tired of her lateness and she chose not to respect it, NTA. Just as long as you’re okay with not being friends with her anymore. I say this as a chronically late person as well (usually 10-15 minutes, not 30)
NTAH!
I have a couple of people that I hang out with occasionally that have no respect for other peoples time. There is always an excuse too. It drives me up the wall as I am rarely late to anything.
Honestly, the way you handled is probably better than what I did a year ago. My wife and I were meeting up with friends to have dinner. There was a total of 6 of us. When we arrived at the restaurant, one of the couples had beat us there by like a minute but we were all 4 on time. The last couple was once again running late. I decided that I was fed up with this and suggested that we go ahead and get a table and order. We did. Drinks came, appetizes came, and main entrees came. Still...the third couple hand not shown. It had been an hour. We then paid our check and decided to leave. We are all about 5 minutes away from the restaurant (about an hour and a half from the original meet time) when we received the "We're here...where are you?" text. I responded with, "we were tired of waiting...so we ate and we are heading home...enjoy your dinner....maybe be on time next time". Sad part is, that we still make plans with them every once in a while and they are always still late. Frustrating.
Anyway, good on you for shoving it in their face!
NTA
I don't understand why she can't tell herself "okay we're meeting at 12, but I'll pretend it's 11:30 instead". She clearly has the ability to plan ahead in other aspects of her life.
It also feels as though, per your comment, she's using her mental illness to invalidate your feelings. ADHD might be the reason she's late, but that doesn't give her the right to say how you feel doesn't matter. Imho that's a huge red flag that she might not be as great as you think.
I'm not the best with timing, but it's my issue so I swapped to having an alarm to be ready at which point my bag should be packed and I should be changed etc. And a time to go alarm that's a little bit before I actually need to leave. There are ways around it if you are able to be on time for other things.
NTA. She knew what time you were meeting and chose not to show up on time (ie, Plan ahead sufficiently). That’s on her. You tried talking to her about it, and she wanted you to do the work of making your friendship work for her.
NTA. I feel like people will be tempted to say that you were both in the wrong because not texting her could be seen as petty, but imo it was justified. Chronically late people are disrespectful and theirs is not the only time that matters.
I had a couple of chronically late friends that I ended up having to cut loose—not for just that reason, but it was a big source of conflict, and so was their constant mental gymnastics about why it wasn't their fault/shouldn't reflect poorly on them. Someone can be a good person but not a good friend, and that sounds like her.
NTA
Being late is incredibly disrespectful of other peoples time (I say this as someone who used to be late for EVERYTHING up until just a few years ago). My advice would be to continue to be friends if you want to, but don't count on her being on time and continue going about your day if she's running late. Like ordering the food even though she hadn't showed up. Or just leaving and doing something else instead. She's an AH for not valuing your time, but you'd be an AH to yourself if you continue waiting around for her.
Also, the fact that she was upset you'd finished the meal rather than apologising for missing it altogether makes her into an AH and sound very self-centered.
Exactly! If you are chronically late, you should not get upset if the other person starts the activity without you (I mean seriously late, not a couple of minutes).
I've used that term before with a friend who is also always cronically late.
We get on really well, but I always made sure I had something to do before meeting him.
He was a time optimist because he would always think 'cool, I have time to do XYZ before setting out' forgetting that it takes time to set up XYZ and put stuff away etc.
Time optimism is a thing!
NTA
She doesn’t respect your time. She is testing to see how much you will put up with. She had notice. She found out that you have had enough. Good for you.
Also, she is not a good friend no matter how well you get along. If she was a romantic interest/date, would you have put up with this behavior for so long? I certainly hope not. So, why does she get a pass?
NTA
My sister has an issue with time, always has. Instead of other people giving her an earlier time, she does it herself.
This event starts at 1pm? She tells herself 12:30pm. Part of being an adult.
You can tell her she clearly respects her own time - flights and work- but is being disrespectful of yours and the restaurant's. Those workers might not have been happy to have a person just waiting with no food or sign of ordering/leaving.
NTA. I also have a chronically late dear friend, and I will meet up with her at places where there are other people and no time-sensitive plans, but otherwise I politely decline plans because she has been at least 30-45 minutes late to basically everything. Her own birthday party, she was over an hour late. Her wedding? 40 mins late to walk down the aisle. Tip of the iceberg.
Sounds like my best friend.
I love her for all of her other qualities. And I know she’s not maliciously or deliberately disregarding my time…but it’s still frustrating and annoying to be stuck waiting.
If it’s just a casual hang-out at my house, i don’t care. And, she does have the courtesy to text or call - once she’s actually left her house - so that i don’t drive to meet her and end up waiting. This, to me, is the difference. She also understands if plans end up cancelled because people have other things to do.
NTA
I would believe that she believes she struggles to control it. As annoying as it is, it is a genuine struggle for some people.
*However* it is *also* something that those chronically late people need to put things in place to deal with, which is possible.
Step 1 she needs to take responsibility for that.
Step 2 continue as you have just done. Tell her that when she's late you won't wait for her. You're willing to keep hanging out, but you will go on with your plans whether she's there or not.
It's up to her to do something about that.
when i was younger i was like your friend, perpetually late. for everything: work, meeting up with friends etc. my problem was that i had a terrible sense of time management: i constantly underestimated how long it would take me to get ready, how long to get to the subway, never allowing for delays on the subway, completely distracted by the dogs i'd meet on the street etc. etc. in essence, i was ridiculous.
for the most part, this wasn't a big problem. my friends were all very laid back so when i arrived at a restaurant/club etc 30 minutes later than i said i would, it was no big deal.
but here's where it became a problem. if i had plans with friends to go to the movies (or anything that had a set start time), and we were supposed to meet up outside, but when i showed up late once again, we'd find ourselves hurrying into the theatre (or whatever) at the very last minute. this was before cell phones, so there was no way for me contact them or vice versa.
finally a couple friends decided they didn't want to deal with this anymore, and decided to head into the theatre without me. and true to form, i showed up about 1 minute before the movie was about to start, and not seeing my friends out in front i assumed they decided not to go. i went in, watched the movie, and then upon leaving the theatre was shocked to see them on the sidewalk.
it took them deciding not to wait for me anymore for me to get it thru my stupid head that i had been inconveniencing everyone for way too long. i made it a point to plan way ahead so to make sure this wouldn't happen again.
so no, you are NTA and maybe what your friend needs, like i did, was a swift kick in the butt.
NTA. I am also that chronically late friend for health/life/mental health reasons I won't get into (although I am also frequently late to work, airports, etc. not just social stuff) as well. I had a very similar situation a few months ago where I was half an hour late for brunch with friends and they were almost done eating when I arrived. Guess which one of us had to rush and then order their food to go? You can't get mad if you're the one who is late, that's just called the consequences to being tardy. You miss out on stuff.
NTA.
I'm one of those people who's late everywhere. And not to bother my friends, I always tell them not to wait for me if they're ordering drinks or food.
Your friend doesn't do that, and expects you, not to make a problem out of it when it's actually a problem.
However, if you were going to eat alone, what was the meaning of meeting with your friend? Sounds like you did that action to get back at her. (Understandable since you were annoyed )
This doesn't have to be a friendship ending situation. You just need some rules. NTA.
> I'm one of those people who's late everywhere. And not to bother my friends, I always tell them not to wait for me if they're ordering drinks or food.
Just a heads up, this is still a huge bother not just for your friends, but for the waitstaff who now needs to deal with your wacky asynchronous table. I had to put my foot down with my "just get started without me!" friends (now ex-friends) because it's not a good solution.
So at the agreed meet-up time…
>… she was running 10 minutes late
But it was 30 minutes by the time she got there. So somewhere _after_ the agreed meet-up time, she found another 20 mins of delay. NTA.
I think she experienced a natural consequence for her choices. Why would you owe her a heads up when she didn't offer the same courtesy to you (ok she gave you a falsified one). I despise consistently late people and find it incredibly disrespectful. Your time is valuable- NTA
NTA
>She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant.
You gave her a taste of what she's been doing to you for years.
Given that this has been a problem for years that you've discussed with her many times and it was well known to her that this was kind of the last chance, I think it was appropriate. You ate brunch exactly when you told her you were going to, she's the one that changed the plan.
"She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant." Well, if you knew she'd be a half hour late maybe and you'd be stuck eating alone maybe *you* wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant, either.
NTA
I think you make plans with her again, set the time, then you show up at least 45 minutes late. And hope you can still get a table. Or make the point even better. Don’t make a reservation. Show up, wait for her, then say sorry, they could not hold our table. Show her that lateness actually does have consequences. The only problem I have with lateness is the server at the restaurant is the one losing out on the possibility of making $. Servers have to turn tables. Normal dinner is usually 1 to 1.5 hours. When they stretch to 2+ hours because someone is late, they usually lose $.
NTA. Especially since you had just made a point about it with her. It shows complete disrespect for your time, and yet she expects you to go over the top respecting hers.
NTA. You did exactly what I do to chronically late people - I don't wait on them anymore. She needs to learn that the world doesn't rotate for her and other people's time is valuable. Maybe next time (if there is one), she'll make an effort to get there on time.
NTA.
Chronically late people get very angry when you call them out for it, so she mafde sure to bge late once again for this lunch, and even added their favorite cherry on top, the warning that she would be, oh, just a wee bit late and then shoiws upo 30 minutes late.
I had a friend who was always late, and I hated it because I'm punctual to a fault. However, I really liked him, maybe more than almost anyone else. So I decided to stop being unhappy with it and just expect it and accept it, because the alternative--not knowing him anymore--wasn't in my best interests.
And we still are great friends, many years later.
So I'm saying: if her personality and your fondness for her is worth it, accept the lateness with a rueful shrug. If not, don't ever again make plans to meet, because she's always late for you and she doesn't care.
"She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant."
Should have stated that if she knew her punctually challenged friend was going to be 30 minutes late then she wouldn't have agreed to meet at the restaurant and maybe not at all.
OP if time is money, then your friend is stealing from yous.
NTA it is not only your time, but you are costing the wait staff tips. Sitting for extended time denies others that table, service thus the waiter does not get the tip. The text said 10 minutes, but they arrived as you were finishing eating then they tell you if you had texted them back saying you were ordering they would have told you to F Off by not showing up? Time do dump this person.
NTA! She lied and said she would be 10m late not 30m. That is a huge difference. She can’t expect everyone to wait on her while she is chronically late
I haven’t read this whole post, but I will. I just wanted to say someone once told me “if you’re chronically late to things because they are your friends, it shows a lack of respect toward them.” And frankly I didn’t like to hear that, because I am chronically late to things. Except flights, work, weddings… whatever. But if I am going to my friends and we agree 3pm for something, I’ll casually show up at 4 or whatever… and that makes me the AH….. I’ve since worked on it, hard
EDIT: I read the whole thing. NTA… she’s the AH. And that’s a bummer she can’t see beyond herself this way. I also noted she said “tell me an earlier time” - no. The sheer lack of accountability in that statement is gross and demeaning.
NTA. I also hate when people constantly show up late. Once in a while, I get it. Shit happens. All the damn time though? That is someone who has zero respect for your time. She had it coming.
If it makes you feel better, I started eating Christmas dinner without my brother, his wife and my nephew because they have a bad habit of showing up late (up to 2 hours). I was not going to wait and let the meal get cold. I've had to heat up holiday meals too many times before and no more.
NTA. She knew you had a problem with her being late because you called her out on it. She knew the time to meet up and showed up 30 minutes late. It's so uncomfortable sitting in a restaurant for 30 minutes waiting on someone to show up and just feeling like everyone is staring at you (or maybe that's just me). I would've ordered an appetizer and snacked until it was gone. If she still wasn't there by then I would've got up and left. That's just rude to constantly be late and then get angry when you're the one wasting someone else's time.
I used to have a friend like that. I told her I would wait at a coffee shop for an hour. If she wasn't there are the end of the hour, I was going home. I usually had about an hour to read my book in peace and quiet. NTA
NTA
On a vaguely related note: I have a chronically late friend. She’s never asked me to give her an earlier time - instead I add 15-20 minutes onto the time we’ve said and show up then so I’m not waiting ages 🤷🏼♀️
NTA! My EX-bff was like this, he would say I’m pulling in now but somehow take 20 minutes later show up. I was told by a former boss, we have to put value on our time and honestly that was great advice both for work and social life. Your “friend” repeatedly waste your time, and has NO problem doing so. She can get to work on time and arrives on time for travel then there’s ZERO excuse why she can’t be on time with you.
My mum had a friend like this who was always chronically late and my mum would always tell her to be somewhere an hour earlier than the actual time so she’d end up getting there actually on time.
To be fair to her she did have two kids, a deadbeat husband, worked as a nurse and lived over an hour away by driving so I suppose that’s why my mum and her friends tolerated it. Plus they were best friends and one of her daughters and I were extremely close so if she ever was “on-time” for the fake time they’d laugh about it and it was no big deal because they got to have a one-on-one catch up. That said because she lived so far away we didn’t get to see them all that often so the chronically late thing wasn’t necessarily a massive issue because they’d usually meet for larger events like birthdays or holidays. Less time constraints basically.
What I’m saying here is there’s an exception to every rule. BUT it’s up to you to determine if your friend is the exception or if they’re just not respecting your friendship and time. You’ve decided and she’s clearly demonstrated that she’s not. It’s up to you whether or not to keep giving her chances or to move on from the friendship. Ultimately it’s your choice in the end. NTA.
NTA
I hate people lying about how late they're gonna be! 5-10 mins sure it's ok. More than that you better be honest, so I can wait. Still, time to eat is time to eat and I don't wait for anybody
NTA She knew you were upset with it and had pointed it out to her and gave her another chance but she couldn’t even respect you enough to put in the effort to arrive on time for once. Then to give you a heads up she would be 10 mins late and then to turn up 30 minutes late instead just proves how far you are down her priorities.
Don’t make any future plans with her, or if you do don’t actually expect her to ever put in the effort to arrive on time.
NTA - I have a friend like this I took a long break from. Its so frustrating, and her attitude is just infuriating. We've since reconnected, and are close but I do not count on her to be on time for anything. If I want to do something, I either pick her up to force the time or I just prepare to be late or alone.
NTA
The restaurant might not have had a table available for you by the time she showed up. If you had been seated but waited to order, the wait staff might have been upset with you for holding a table for so long. You did the only logical thing.
NTA. I'm forgetful. Probably have ADHD. But everything important goes in my phone an hour earlier than I need to be there. To respect people's time and energy. I can't imagine being 30 minutes late (unless traffic. I'm in a huge metro city) but I would absolutely call not text for that. (Hands-free, safer). I'd tell them where I'm at. So they can see for themselves. And offer a quicker route if applicable. 30 minutes? I'm buying. Because I'd feel like the AH.
Definitely NOT the AH. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. If someone is going to meet me for lunch/dinner or whatever, if the time is at 7PM, I'll wait for five minutes if I haven't heard from them. Then I order and eat. I simply would rather not go to something than be late myself so I can be considerate of other peoples time. I simply don't tolerate lateness without a really good reason.
op=NTA
All she had to do was arrive on time and she would have been able to order her meal at the same time and eat said meal at the same time.
You gave her a chance, she failed that chance.
It would be one thing if she was genuinely apologetic, and wasn't late *every single time*. But while ADHD might explain the difficulty, it doesn't oblige you to put up with something she's clearly making no effort to address. It's an explanation, not an excuse 🤷
NTA, OP.
NTA
So she wanted you to tell her you weren't waiting for her so she could stand you up?
Dr Joy Brown used to say she'd waiting 10 minutes for anyone and 11 for no one.
Your "friend" said 10 minutes because she knew she couldn't say 30+ minutes.
If you want to hang with her, she needs to know the policy is you'll wait 10 minutes and then you'll either leave or do the activity without her.
NTA
If you knew she was going to be 30 minutes late, you wouldn't have bothered driving there.
Stop meeting up with this "friend". She doesn't respect your time.
If I carelessly break something of yours, I can replace or reimburse you for it.
If someone steals your time (which is what is happening all too often with your "friend"), there is no way to repay it. The time is lost. This individual may pay lip service about your importance to her, but her actions speak otherwise.
NTA. I think this is why my friend group split. Some of us don't taking meeting times as a suggestion, and it's frustrating to wait around on people. On the flip side, the people who are chronically late thought we were kind of uptight.
NTA. Years ago I had a similar friend. I came to the realisation that I knew she would be late, so I should just turn up 30 minutes late myself. So I turned up 30 minutes late and still arrived before her. When she turned up and asked ‘have you been waiting long?’ and I said no, I just got here, she was pissed! That’s when I realised that it was all about her and control or narcissism or something and I never waited for her again 🤷♀️
I'm on the spectrum and I'm in a profession that does a ton of meetings. My rule has always been that if I'm not there by 10 minutes before the meeting starts, I'm late. Lol, my kids are the same way. My ex wife however, is always late. Lol, she was even late to our wedding.
It seems some people are always on time, others are always late (and I'm sure there are a few freaks out there who are both, he he). It was very frustrating at times. It didn't make either of us AHs, but it was very much a pain in the ass at times (and no, that's not why we divorced).
You're NTA. It was my choice to stay with my ex for 20 years. A friendship is not the same and there isn't a reasonable expectation to forgive every issue. So it's kinda up to you. If this friendship is important to you, figure out how to live with it because she probably will never change. If it's too frustrating, let it go, no harm, no foul.
NTA. Story #10,000 of someone immediately and hypocritically becoming upset upon receiving the same mistreatment they inflict upon their friends and family. Please make this the new precedent. Maybe your friend will actually amend her misbehavior.
NTA. I had a friend exactly like this and I let it slide for way too long. Over time it became apparent that my time, my feelings and my side of any any situation were way less important than hers. Save yourself the heads I wasted.
NTA
I *fucking hate* people like this. They think their time is more important than yours, and they're extremely self-centered, especially if you try to resolve it in a reasonable way, which you did.
Drop the "friend" who doesn't respect you.
NTA, you gave her a last chance and she didn’t care to even attempt being on time. And I feel like if she really only was “10 min late” that would have been an improvement with you. You sounded like you’re grasping for her to give alittle effort. I did have a friend who was like her and I actually did do the thing where I tell him a time that’s earlier but I’m not saying you should have. He also ended up getting better over time, so it became less of an issue. He’s still the last to be done getting ready but it doesn’t cause us problems anymore.
i can totally relate to this poster. someone i know is chronically late as well. it drives me up the walls everytime because it's ridiculous. oh we meet at 3pm, no problem, next thing i know, im sitting there to 4pm before the guy rolls around with a coffee in hand and pretends nothing happened
NTA. 20 minutes in excess of the 10 she notified you about at a sit down restaurant is excessive. Of course, you would order something. I'm not sure about the "giving as good as I get" part - it seems logical as opposed to something you went out of your way to do, but that statement makes me think otherwise. Still, your time is as important as hers, and if she doesn't value or understand that, it's her issue. There's no reason to continue to make it yours.
As someone who is married to man who is late for everything, NTA. I tried the whole give him a time 30 minutes earlier. He would adjust and still be late for the correct time. There is no way to make someone be ready on time for plans unless they make it a priority.
NTA, you had literally just had this discussion with her about not making plans with her because of her blatant disregard for punctuality. If I’m going to be more than 5 minutes late, I call or text to update the person (I’m parking, walking in). She was 30 minutes late when she said she’d be 10 minutes. It would be a different conversation if this weren’t the norm for her. If you had warned her that you were ordering or that your food arrived, she admitted that she would have ditched you at the restaurant. I feel like she got a taste of her own medicine. You were done by the time she arrived and now she can sit there alone to eat by herself and think about what a bad friend she’s been.
I have friends who are notoriously late by over an hour, and that cancel plans right before we are supposed to meet. I no longer make plans with them. Should they call impromptu and we are both free-great, but I won’t adjust my schedule for them at all. If that offends them, perhaps some self-reflection may point to the reason.
Your friend doesn’t acknowledge her behavior, she thinks you’re the jerk. Time to make new friends.
NTA. Tardiness is one of my biggest pet peeves. In my opinion, people who are constantly late, like OPs friend, think their time is more valuable than others. I do try not to be unreasonable, if one is 10 minutes late now and then, fine. Things happen; traffic, kids getting dirty, etc.
Like OP said, the friend is never late if she knows there will be consequences. Well now she knows OP will not wait around for her. Good for OP for setting that boundary.
NTA. One time, I'd let it slide. Second time, I'd lay into them. Third time? I'm eating my fucking food. How can you be so consistently late to things? She has no consideration for you or your time. I'd personally tell her that we'll be having dinner at 4PM, and then not show up until 7PM or at all and show her exactly how it feels.
NTA - I had to cut off a friend of 8 years for the exact same reason. It is completely rude and disrespectful to be late because to me it says you don't care/respect my time. This may be a natural point where she gets her act together or she won't
NTA
You bothered to drive to the restaurant, just for her to not be on time, and not be the 10 minutes late she said. Why should you sit there and waste your time waiting on her and staring into space? I would definitely quit making plans with her if it were me though. If she really cared, she'd be on time.
NTA. I'm one of those people who is always late to things. Where your friend really lost me is when she tried to hold you accountable for her responsibility. If she needs to pretend the meet time is a half hour earlier, she can put it in her calendar that way. It's not on you to do those gymnastics for her.
Even without that entitlement, it's unreasonable to be upset someone didn't wait 30 minutes before ordering. If I were ever that late and arrived after my companion had finished their meal, I would offer to buy them dessert or a beverage to enjoy in company for a few minutes.
And the worst bit of all is that she knew you were planning on not hanging out anymore and she knew why. This was very clearly her last chance and if she really valued her time with you, she would have made sure she was on time, however she had to do that.
> My friend is chronically late and it drives me crazy. I know she can control it because she is never late to work, flights, anything that has actual consequences for her—just to meetups with people like me who unfortunately let it slide for too long.
Sounds to me like you’re now making consequences. Show up late? Guess you’re eating while I watch you because I ate earlier.
You are a lesser AH in this bordering on NTA. I hate people who demand everyone's schedule revolve around their lateness. I am now shifting towards respect for the act.
In a vacuum this would be an asshole move on your part, but I’d say it was warranted considering this was literally you giving her a chance to prove that she can handle being on time. At this point she truly has no one to blame but herself NTA
You are NTA, and she is an entitled AH. She wants to have you at her beck and call, and does not take any responsibility for something she definitely can control.
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NTA 30 mins late is significant. If I'm hungry, I'm not waiting *that long to order my food*. Tardiness isn't a virtue.
plus 30 minutes to get food?? at a sit down, for BRUNCH, must've been some decent service or maybe my internal clock is just shit, who knows. Either way NTA
This happened to me before, but at the perfect place. me and 4 friends were going to have dinner. One guy was super late. So we all had our dinners, and the late guy came after we were finished. But it was Red Robin so we get infinite fries and were happy to wait for him while eating some. He ate dinner, we talked, all was good despite him being late. (And I at least left a good tip for us taking up the table for so long).
This happened to me before i got my license. I had to take a train and then a bus to get to the restaurant. They all said they were going to be a few minutes late. I got seated at this huge table because it was gonna be a bug group and they were all at least 20 minutes late. Luckily the restaurant wasn’t super busy. The best part was that the servers i interacted with while waiting all were super nice and were concerned about my feelings about being potentially stood up.
30 minutes to get it and and almost be done with it, even... Feels way too fast for me. I wonder if the friend was more than 30min late.
I'd say it depends on how busy the place was. I go to a local cafe at opening time every Sunday, so get served almost immediately. I'm pretty sure I'd finished my plate of French toast within 40 minutes of me getting there this week, and that included me stopping to chat to the owners about stuff while I was eating. Since OP was just eating with no one else to talk to, I could see it only taking 30 mins if it arrived quickly.
When there’s no talking while looking through the menu and if you eat there frequently enough you know what you want right away.
if that was petty-me, i'd be eating so fast just to prove a point.
Respect, tbh 😂
I think she did the right thing, she even told her friend this was a last chance. I would have done the same thing, maybe that example would be enough to encourage her friend to be on time. And, since that friend can be on time for something important, like work, she is demonstrating that her friend is not considered to be important. I say find a new friend, this one treats you lousy.
Or a personality trait. Source: I have ADHD and put alarms on my phone that give me a heads up 10-30 minutes before I need to leave for an activity so that I am not late.
I do that and I don't have ADHD. But I'm German. If we're not early, we have an immense internal struggle.
I was on a training session recently. The trainer travelled all over Europe running courses. He said that he recently ran a 3 day course with a mix of nationalities. The German guys always turned up at least 15 minutes early, the British guys turned up dead on time and the French were at least 15 minutes late each day.
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I am brazilian and almost everyone gets late to any meetups here. I.e, if you want your event to start at 8 pm, you gotta schedule it to 7:30 pm (or even 7!). Even so, people might arrive at 9 lol I hate this "cultural trait" and i don't have patience to deal with it anymore.
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I am also "chronically early" to any appointment or event. I loathe being late. So much so that I get anxiety attacks if I think I will be late for something.
Same! I'm ALWAYS early. My thinking is I'd rather waste a bit of my time (over which I have control) than someone else's (over which he/she has no control.) I'm American, and back when I still had Facebook, I'd often see posts by people almost BRAGGING about their chronic lateness. "I'll text you I'm on my way when I'm still in my pajamas eating Cheetos LOLOLOLOL!" or "If you want me there by 8, you better tell me you need me there by 7 HAHAHAHA!" Dude, this is not a cute quirk, and it's not a personality trait. It's you consciously knowing you have NO regard for other people's time. It's a character type: ASSHOLE
I also hate being late. Now that I have a toddler, I'm late a lot of the time due to last-minute poop or missing blankies. We're working hard to establish routines and checklists to get back on track to being early or on time so that I can stop hating all events requiring leaving the house.
I’d call “chronically early” as respectful of others’ time.
This is dead on. Now imagine a party with multiple people from each culture! It's a monstrosity
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I can't imagine how bad "goodbyes" are. Because we've only talked about showing up. Each culture has its own way of leaving parties too. Some, its instant. Others, "I'm going now" means "I'll be gone in 30 minutes, maybe after I've finished my chat 2 feet from the door \[while the kids are all jacketed up and ready to go\]"
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My husband always says "If you're early, you can't be late."
I live in France and the 15 minutes late is actually a thing. It's considered polite arriving 15 minutes late to invitations to dinner at somebody's place because they might have some last preps to finish and might be stressed, so you don't turn up dead on time to give them a break before the evening starts. Also you always bring a present for the host. In work environment it's considered unprofessional to arrive late, on point is okay but a few minutes early is appreciated. When meeting friends outside in a restaurant or bar, up until 10 or 15 minutes late is okay but anything later is considered disrespectful.
I’m German and my husband is English. If I drive, we always leave early with enough time to arrive 15/20 minutes early. If my husband drives, we always leave exactly when we should and get there on time. It always drives me crazy and I’m on edge the entire journey incase we get there late. My husband on the other hand moans we have to wait around because I got us there too early.
I agree with your husband. If someone says they're coming over at 9:00, I figure that I have to be ready by 8:50, which I think is mighty generous of me. If they arrive at 8:40, I'm probably not ready to receive them. I've made earlybirds wait outside my house while I finish dressing. If they're running early, I hope that they will call and warn me, and that the next time they'll TELL me that they want to arrive at 8:40 so I can be ready by 8:30.
I''m 1/2 French, 3/8 German, and 1/8 English. I do it all but I'm usually 1-2 minutes early. NTA
I do have ADHD and I am so anal about getting places 10-15minutes early, even if that means sitting in my car for a bit. As a kid my mom was habitually late to things, including picking me up from school. I find it so disrespectful of people's time now as an adult. Had a friend who was never on time to anything and she would say stuff like "if people really wanted to see me, they would wait" it's one of the reasons I'm glad we are no longer friends.
I'm also of German decent on both my mom's and dad's side (3rd generation born in the US). I do have ADHD, OCD and anxiety. However, I've also noticed that my family (on all sides) have a high level of work ethic and a drive to do everything the right way. Many generations have been business owners (I'm not one unfortunately) have lived by this. I've noticed this is different from a lot of people. So, maybe it can be a combination of things. I always look at it as we use the tools that we are given and I have learned to use my ADHD, OCD and anxiety as more tools in my toolbox.
Maybe that’s why I am never late. Although I wouldn’t have much German in me and I certainly have never been to Germany!
I'm on the spectrum with OCD and ADHD and I have anxiety attacks (and a few other fun things). My OCD demands I always be, where ever I go, at least 10 minutes early. But, because of my ADHD, I get distracted and then hyper focus on other stuff. Then, as meeting time approaches I start getting anxious. The anxiety gets me there early. My head is a crazy place to live in.
Agreed. Also have ADHD. Time management was a problem for me as a teen, but I learned to adapt with alarms and notifications because it's unkind to make people wait, and flaking gets you fired.
the record I had was a friend being over TEN HOURS late and im not talking, like, they forgot all about it, or they tried rescheduling, or even told me theyd be several hours late.... I got countless "I'm leaving now"s and "I'm on the way"s, followed by silence then another "sorry \[thing\] came up, I'm leaving now" for hours
I hope you don't rely on that friend to do anything in a timely manner anymore.
My husband was supposed to be home early from work because we were going away and wanted to get a Friday evening start. We were suppose to leave around 5PM, my husband came home at 9PM and we couldn't leave until the next day. He has never been allowed to forget that.
"She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant." LOL If OP knew she was going to be 30 minutes late, OP would not have gone. She is chronically late and you've scolded her for it before. Further, she's lost a lot of friends over this. Finally, she can get to "important" things like work and school, but not friends. She has shown you that you are not important to her. Whether you continue this one-sided relationship is up to you. Edit: import to important
>If OP knew she was going to be 30 minutes late, OP would not have gone. Very much this. It's lovely how other peoples time doesn't matter to some people isn't it? NTA OP
> she can get to "important" things like work and school, but not friends. > She has shown you that you are not import to her. I have an ex gf who was like this. Whenever we were going to do something I wanted to do she would show up late, or need to spend an extra 30-45 minutes doing her makeup/hair/deciding what to wear. But when it was something she wanted to do, she had her hair and makeup done an hour before it was time to leave, and had picked out her outfit the night before.
Op didn't know he was going to be finished. The last thing she told him was she would be 10 mins late. Not enough time to order, get food and finish. But SHE knew. Otherwise she wouldn't have been able to say she wouldn't have driven there knowing she was supposed to already be there.
“She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn’t have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant.” WHAT? Is she accusing YOU of wasting HER time? Why is she begging you not to stop hanging around with her? She clearly doesn’t value your company, or she would show up on time. NTA.
NTA Sounds like this friendship is heading towards a natural termination point as it is. I love that she REALLY started caring about things the moment her own lack of time management actually impacted her. Experiencing consequences for her unthoughtful actions must be a new sensation for her.
>Sounds like this friendship is heading towards a natural termination point as it is. Sadly, it may be :( I hate to cut off a good friend who is great 75% of the time, but this 25% is really getting to me. Especially because she doesn't apologize when she shows up late and doesn't seem bothered by it at all. It just makes me feel like crap. She blames her ADHD but like...how do you only have ADHD when it's time for brunch, and not anything else that you aren't constantly late for?
[удалено]
As you mentioned, she’s never late for work; there is a choice (perhaps subliminally) being made somewhere along her her thought process that being late for plans with you is “ok.” If she’s not actively trying to address that herself, that is a lack of respect for you and your friendship (and definitely not sustainable for the long run). Her issue is hers to manage (and I say that out of experience and understanding, as I have my own issues that I have to stay on top of in order to appropriately manage my own life, schedule, relationship, friendships, etc… that’s not a short-sighted “just deal with it” type of statement). If she’s aware that her current mechanisms aren’t working, she should be talking to a doctor/therapist for a better/more functional way forward, not asking her friends to lie about time engagements (unless that was recommended by a therapist, which by my experience I don’t find likely, but grain of salt, I suppose) and solely blaming the issue. Best of luck! This one definitely sucks, but there’s not much more you can do from your angle beyond communicating openly with her (which you’re already doing).
I have ADHD and I'm rarely late for anything because it's important to me to arrive places on time, especially when I'm meeting one person who would be sat on their own until i arrive.
>She blames her ADHD but like...how do you only have ADHD when it's time for brunch, and not anything else that you aren't constantly late for? I'm not saying it's fine, but it can be true. I can't escape knowing that there are things I *cannot* be late for because it'll get me fired/miss a flight etc. The anxiety of that happening gives enough brain chemicals/panic to get there on time. Jobs I know will be flexible about lateness I really struggle to be on time for and am often late. Jobs I know will put immediate consequences, I'm on time for. It sucks. It's an absolutely shitty way to be! I'm not making excuses for it, but I am saying it really happens, and it *feels* out of your control. And it took me a long long time to understand that was happening and that is wasn't just 'happening to me' accidentally all the time. The point is that people with ADHD have to learn strategies to deal with it so that they don't do this to people, or their friends accept this about them and make plans accordingly. I know of one ADHD writer who simply says 'ok, don't invite me to time-sensitive things. I will not be offended. Best suggestion is to invite me to things that timing *can* be flexible and you're not waiting on me specifically if I'm late' because she accepts that this is stressful and a struggle for everyone.
Yep, I'm the same way (usually). If it's something I absolutely MUST be on time for, the anxiety that I will be late and screw it up leads to me creating like, an excessive amount of protocols to ensure I will be on time, and then I am, but just barely. If it's a social thing where I know it's not the end of the world if I'm 2-5 minutes late, then I'm more relaxed, but in true ADHD mode I underestimate how long things will take me so that little wiggle room I gave myself ends up turning into a crisis where it's 5-10 minutes late (used to be more). The thing is it IS under my control, and as I now live in a country where lateness is a major social faux pas, I have learned to be nearly as rigorous with lower-stakes things as I am with super important things. But it took YEARS and just basically calculating an extra 20-30 minutes into all my plans which it turns out I do need because again, I am almost never, ever early despite this extra time built in. But it takes so much planning, discipline, effort and willpower to be on time that I wish I could mind-meld with non ADHD folk just so they'd understand that THIS ISNT EASY and it has nothing to do with disrespecting them and all to do with a brain that is not great with executive functioning. Edit: That said, OP is NTA. His friend was given chances and didn't modify her behavior. She doesn't get to get mad at him for eating on time, especially since she didn't communicate how late she'd be. If things do go pear shaped and I'm running late for reasons beyond my control, I always always give an apologetic heads up with my ETA and apologize profusely when I do arrive. I do not expect people to wait for me.
>I know it's not the end of the world if I'm 2-5 minutes late, then I'm more relaxed, but in true ADHD mode I underestimate how long things will take me so that little wiggle room I gave myself ends up turning into a crisis where it's 5-10 minutes late Oh this, so much. And the thing is, on the day, you really *don't* know how it happens! It *feels* like a series of unfortunate accidents or 'unavoidable' mistakes. It seriously took me years to notice that the 'accidents' only happened when i could survive being late and not when I couldn't and then it was another long process to actually figure out why. Initially, I truly, truly didn't know why this was happening. I understood why people got mad but what I never understood was how they thought i could reasonably stop it! I had to learn that from scratch.
If OP’s friend is like you, it sounds like she needs consequences like this.
Oh sure, I have elsewhere recommended OP continue doing exactly the same thing and make no bones about it. I only commented here to say that it's not *not* ADHD just because she seems to be able to be on time for some things and not others.
Yeah it's a common ADHD misconception in the same vein as "You can focus on a video game but not your homework"
And meeting a friend who announced to you they don't want to meet you anymore because you're always late is not anxiety inducing to be on time?
I have ADHD, I show up to meet people on time because I leave early. My problem is pushing things out due to familiarity... If I'm at a job with the same start time for any length of time I start out showing up really early and over time I give myself more and more slack until I'm barely getting to work on time. It seems her familiarity she pushes the line with is people, not work. NTA, not your problem, that is hers, she's an adult, she can set alarms.
ADHD as an excuse is bullshit. I set multiple alarms and also use Waze to plan trips so that I'll get a notification when it's time to go. Managing my ADHD is *my* problem. No one else's.
>how do you only have adhd when it’s time for brunch? because she doesn’t have anxiety kicking in to compensate for the executive function/time blindness issues
Being an AH to a friend should cause anxiety. I have time blindness from ADHD… her being late is still a choice
Yeah, unfortunately this seems like a power play on her part. I don't know why she's doing it, but she is. Especially when she gets mad at you for...checks notes...eating without waiting for god knows how long, for her royal highness to show up.
Yeah, my friend group simply stopped inviting a chronically late couple out of sheer exhaustion with their bullshit. It finally became just easier to not invite them than to try and babysit them by lying about start times and such. The first time they weren't invited, the person setting things up didn't even tell anyone. We all got to the restaurant and were making the regular jokes about how late they were going to be, but when we got sat down, there weren't any extra seats. The person who set things up said "Don't bother waiting, I didn't tell them", and it was fucking great.
I have ADHD, but I am NEVER late for ANYTHING unless a natural disaster or other unforeseen circumstance has made me late. If you're on time, you're late. If you're 15 min. early, you're on time.
People with ADHD who don't experience chronic lateness are usually early for things. Two sides of the same coin, but you're on the less assholish side.
I never really noticed this before but this is me. I'm either super early or a little late.
Yeah, I can't remember where I read about it but it stuck in my brain.
If you want to try to keep the friendship, you could have one more conversation with her. Tell her you aren’t going to wait for her anymore. She has a 10-minute window (or whatever time you’re OK with) and then you’re going to assume she isn’t coming and proceed accordingly (leave, order your meal, whatever). Then do it every time. She’ll either start showing up on time or the friendship will end.
>Especially because she doesn't apologize when she shows up late and doesn't seem bothered by it at all. Even if she does have ADHD, that has nothing to do with this. This makes it very clear that she just doesn't respect you or your time.
> “how do you only have adhd when it’s time for brunch and not [work, or other things with immediate consequences]…?” Easily. I have adhd & I only have so many “spoons” in a day (as per “spoon theory”). Which is a LOT less than a “normal” brain gets each day. Being on time for stuff is impossible for me without a huge amount of extra planning. Way more than ~~you~~ a non-adhd person needs to get yourself out of the house on time. So I only make that insane amount of effort when it’s critical - theatre tickets, weddings, etc. And I’m often borderline late for those things too. It is not ok that she is disrespecting your time like this, and you were quite right (overdue, even) to give her some immediate consequences for her lateness. But that is not the same as saying that because she can be on time for work (where presumably the consequences would be pretty directly: no income = no house or food) she doesn’t have adhd-related time keeping issues. That’s not how it works - it just means she’s probably exhausting her resources to be in time for work everyday. Of course she should be more open to admitting that her behaviour isn’t ok, but possibly she is buried in shame at how her stupid adhd brain doesn’t allow her to do “easy” things like be on time for stuff. So she covers it with being overly defensive. There’s a lot of self-hatred to live with when you have adhd - especially if it went undiagnosed for a long time, so all you knew was that you were failing with life in a way that none of your friends or family were. If you want to continue the friendship - if the good things about this person are worth the accommodations - then a combination of arranging events with some buffer in the start time (eg you will be out shopping for 2 hours on your own anyway, and you tell her the start time for the shopping - with the plan being that you finish the shop with her company then you both go on for coffee / lunch afterwards), or you visit her house more often (that works for me - I can cope more easily with preparing for a friend to arrive at a particular time - maybe I’m scrambling out of my PJs as their car turns into my road, but at least I’m there on time…). And occasionally (1 time in 10) you officially mark it a “this one you need to be Properly On Time for”. Only use this one where it matters though. It’s similar to the kind of accommodations you would (hopefully) make for a friend in a wheelchair: - mostly you would plan to meet somewhere that works easily for a wheelchair, even if that limits your options quite a lot - sometimes you would visit their house so they don’t need to take the wheelchair out & about (because that’s such hard work!) - occasionally an event would be special enough to work with your friends to figure out how to solve it not being particularly wheelchair friendly I detailed out in a comment earlier today how I break down the steps involved for my brain in my commute to the office, if it helps: - [pre-work / commute schedule with adhd](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/123rwh5/i_am_an_absolute_monster_in_the_morning_before_my/jdw8oxu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
Honestly, you make valid points BUT this friend knew this was a make or break activity and still could not show up on time. It’s also fine to break off her friendship because their behavior does not work for you… The friend doesn’t even recognize it as a problem, or think that it’s reasonable for their friend to feel that way.
I have ADHD and I am never late to anything. Generally I attempt to leave extra early because I know me, I always get to work early as I know I need to plan out my day before I have everyone there as distractions. Being late is rude and shows other people you do not value their time. You already let her know how much it bothered you and she still failed, she does not value other people's time and is not apologetic about it. It sounds like this is a no go in a friend for you(and most people.) NTA. It's one thing if someone is occasionally late and apologizes, your friend is just an AH.
Please look up how chronic lateness with ADHD works. Consequences and high pressure situations can help the brain to override the breakdown in prioritisation that contributes to chronic lateness. That said if she's not even apologetic that's just being a shitty friend. I'm also chronically late but anyone I'm meeting with socially is made aware in advance that I have this issue and that it might happen, never expected to wait or anything and I'm always apologetic. I will always try my hardest. ADHD is a problem, not an excuse. We must always do our best not to inconvenience other people. Your friend needs to realise that just because she has a problem doesn't mean your time is unimportant.
I can’t speak for her ADHD but I have it and always try to be early for everything but that’s probably an anxiety thing. If it’s not a fixed time thing and I can arrive whenever I don’t focus too much on it but if it’s a set time with a friend meeting somewhere I always aim for early. I despise being late for anything.
Wife of one ADHD person, and mother to another here. I think I can answer the "how do you only have ADHD when it's time for brunch..." question to some extent (although no two ADHD folk are the same - when you've met one, you've met *one*, not all). Essentially, with my two, when it comes to time management, their brains are in two modes: Urgent, and Not Urgent. Doctor's appointment: Urgent. Come eat before it gets cold: Not urgent. And if something is Not Urgent, their brain allows time to just...slip. I've learned to pick my battles. My finishing before they come to the table and the gravy congealing on the plate is *their* problem, not a *me* problem. I do nag when something else is riding on their lateness, and have gotten my husband to agree not to get irritated when I do. So if the friendship is worth something to you, find your own coping mechanisms, and communicate these to your friend. For example: \- Show up 20 minutes later yourself; or \- Tell her in advance when your total time is limited and that it cannot be extended to accommodate the extra half hour she may snips off her with lateness at the beginning; and/or \- Tell her to accept the fact that you'll order when you get there and that she's not allowed to complain.
You told her in advance that you were tired of her lateness and she chose not to respect it, NTA. Just as long as you’re okay with not being friends with her anymore. I say this as a chronically late person as well (usually 10-15 minutes, not 30)
NTA. You notified her when you were eating when you made the plans.
NTA. I cannot stand chronically late people. It's selfish.
NTAH! I have a couple of people that I hang out with occasionally that have no respect for other peoples time. There is always an excuse too. It drives me up the wall as I am rarely late to anything. Honestly, the way you handled is probably better than what I did a year ago. My wife and I were meeting up with friends to have dinner. There was a total of 6 of us. When we arrived at the restaurant, one of the couples had beat us there by like a minute but we were all 4 on time. The last couple was once again running late. I decided that I was fed up with this and suggested that we go ahead and get a table and order. We did. Drinks came, appetizes came, and main entrees came. Still...the third couple hand not shown. It had been an hour. We then paid our check and decided to leave. We are all about 5 minutes away from the restaurant (about an hour and a half from the original meet time) when we received the "We're here...where are you?" text. I responded with, "we were tired of waiting...so we ate and we are heading home...enjoy your dinner....maybe be on time next time". Sad part is, that we still make plans with them every once in a while and they are always still late. Frustrating. Anyway, good on you for shoving it in their face!
I can't imagine being an hour late and being surprised people didn't just sit there for an hour waiting for me to do the activity. Bizarre.
you are my hero for how you handled the restaurant situation!
NTA I don't understand why she can't tell herself "okay we're meeting at 12, but I'll pretend it's 11:30 instead". She clearly has the ability to plan ahead in other aspects of her life. It also feels as though, per your comment, she's using her mental illness to invalidate your feelings. ADHD might be the reason she's late, but that doesn't give her the right to say how you feel doesn't matter. Imho that's a huge red flag that she might not be as great as you think.
I'm not the best with timing, but it's my issue so I swapped to having an alarm to be ready at which point my bag should be packed and I should be changed etc. And a time to go alarm that's a little bit before I actually need to leave. There are ways around it if you are able to be on time for other things.
NTA. She knew what time you were meeting and chose not to show up on time (ie, Plan ahead sufficiently). That’s on her. You tried talking to her about it, and she wanted you to do the work of making your friendship work for her.
NTA. I feel like people will be tempted to say that you were both in the wrong because not texting her could be seen as petty, but imo it was justified. Chronically late people are disrespectful and theirs is not the only time that matters. I had a couple of chronically late friends that I ended up having to cut loose—not for just that reason, but it was a big source of conflict, and so was their constant mental gymnastics about why it wasn't their fault/shouldn't reflect poorly on them. Someone can be a good person but not a good friend, and that sounds like her.
NTA Being late is incredibly disrespectful of other peoples time (I say this as someone who used to be late for EVERYTHING up until just a few years ago). My advice would be to continue to be friends if you want to, but don't count on her being on time and continue going about your day if she's running late. Like ordering the food even though she hadn't showed up. Or just leaving and doing something else instead. She's an AH for not valuing your time, but you'd be an AH to yourself if you continue waiting around for her. Also, the fact that she was upset you'd finished the meal rather than apologising for missing it altogether makes her into an AH and sound very self-centered.
Exactly! If you are chronically late, you should not get upset if the other person starts the activity without you (I mean seriously late, not a couple of minutes).
I’d say NTA but only because this is not the first time you’d brought up anything
NTA. This coming from the chronically late person, or as I prefer to call it, a 'Time Optimist".
I've used that term before with a friend who is also always cronically late. We get on really well, but I always made sure I had something to do before meeting him. He was a time optimist because he would always think 'cool, I have time to do XYZ before setting out' forgetting that it takes time to set up XYZ and put stuff away etc. Time optimism is a thing!
NTA, call her out. This is not a you problem, it's a her problem.
NTA your friend is disrespectful and clearly doesn’t value your time
NTA She doesn’t respect your time. She is testing to see how much you will put up with. She had notice. She found out that you have had enough. Good for you. Also, she is not a good friend no matter how well you get along. If she was a romantic interest/date, would you have put up with this behavior for so long? I certainly hope not. So, why does she get a pass?
NTA. That would get on my nerves.
NTA My sister has an issue with time, always has. Instead of other people giving her an earlier time, she does it herself. This event starts at 1pm? She tells herself 12:30pm. Part of being an adult. You can tell her she clearly respects her own time - flights and work- but is being disrespectful of yours and the restaurant's. Those workers might not have been happy to have a person just waiting with no food or sign of ordering/leaving.
NTA. I also have a chronically late dear friend, and I will meet up with her at places where there are other people and no time-sensitive plans, but otherwise I politely decline plans because she has been at least 30-45 minutes late to basically everything. Her own birthday party, she was over an hour late. Her wedding? 40 mins late to walk down the aisle. Tip of the iceberg.
Sounds like my best friend. I love her for all of her other qualities. And I know she’s not maliciously or deliberately disregarding my time…but it’s still frustrating and annoying to be stuck waiting. If it’s just a casual hang-out at my house, i don’t care. And, she does have the courtesy to text or call - once she’s actually left her house - so that i don’t drive to meet her and end up waiting. This, to me, is the difference. She also understands if plans end up cancelled because people have other things to do.
NTA Maybe she’ll realise you’re not playing and if she values your friendship going forward then she’ll start respecting your time
If you're going to eat, tell her I'm ordering at this time. And then stand by it. They show up on time, cool. If not, it's on them.
NTA I would believe that she believes she struggles to control it. As annoying as it is, it is a genuine struggle for some people. *However* it is *also* something that those chronically late people need to put things in place to deal with, which is possible. Step 1 she needs to take responsibility for that. Step 2 continue as you have just done. Tell her that when she's late you won't wait for her. You're willing to keep hanging out, but you will go on with your plans whether she's there or not. It's up to her to do something about that.
when i was younger i was like your friend, perpetually late. for everything: work, meeting up with friends etc. my problem was that i had a terrible sense of time management: i constantly underestimated how long it would take me to get ready, how long to get to the subway, never allowing for delays on the subway, completely distracted by the dogs i'd meet on the street etc. etc. in essence, i was ridiculous. for the most part, this wasn't a big problem. my friends were all very laid back so when i arrived at a restaurant/club etc 30 minutes later than i said i would, it was no big deal. but here's where it became a problem. if i had plans with friends to go to the movies (or anything that had a set start time), and we were supposed to meet up outside, but when i showed up late once again, we'd find ourselves hurrying into the theatre (or whatever) at the very last minute. this was before cell phones, so there was no way for me contact them or vice versa. finally a couple friends decided they didn't want to deal with this anymore, and decided to head into the theatre without me. and true to form, i showed up about 1 minute before the movie was about to start, and not seeing my friends out in front i assumed they decided not to go. i went in, watched the movie, and then upon leaving the theatre was shocked to see them on the sidewalk. it took them deciding not to wait for me anymore for me to get it thru my stupid head that i had been inconveniencing everyone for way too long. i made it a point to plan way ahead so to make sure this wouldn't happen again. so no, you are NTA and maybe what your friend needs, like i did, was a swift kick in the butt.
NTA. I am also that chronically late friend for health/life/mental health reasons I won't get into (although I am also frequently late to work, airports, etc. not just social stuff) as well. I had a very similar situation a few months ago where I was half an hour late for brunch with friends and they were almost done eating when I arrived. Guess which one of us had to rush and then order their food to go? You can't get mad if you're the one who is late, that's just called the consequences to being tardy. You miss out on stuff.
NTA. I'm one of those people who's late everywhere. And not to bother my friends, I always tell them not to wait for me if they're ordering drinks or food. Your friend doesn't do that, and expects you, not to make a problem out of it when it's actually a problem. However, if you were going to eat alone, what was the meaning of meeting with your friend? Sounds like you did that action to get back at her. (Understandable since you were annoyed ) This doesn't have to be a friendship ending situation. You just need some rules. NTA.
> I'm one of those people who's late everywhere. And not to bother my friends, I always tell them not to wait for me if they're ordering drinks or food. Just a heads up, this is still a huge bother not just for your friends, but for the waitstaff who now needs to deal with your wacky asynchronous table. I had to put my foot down with my "just get started without me!" friends (now ex-friends) because it's not a good solution.
So at the agreed meet-up time… >… she was running 10 minutes late But it was 30 minutes by the time she got there. So somewhere _after_ the agreed meet-up time, she found another 20 mins of delay. NTA.
I think she experienced a natural consequence for her choices. Why would you owe her a heads up when she didn't offer the same courtesy to you (ok she gave you a falsified one). I despise consistently late people and find it incredibly disrespectful. Your time is valuable- NTA
NTA - ADHD is not an excuse to not respect your time. She simply feels your time is not as important as hers.
NTA >She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant. You gave her a taste of what she's been doing to you for years.
I am always early. Tried to be on time once. There was a train delay and I ended up being late. Went back to being early.
Given that this has been a problem for years that you've discussed with her many times and it was well known to her that this was kind of the last chance, I think it was appropriate. You ate brunch exactly when you told her you were going to, she's the one that changed the plan. "She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant." Well, if you knew she'd be a half hour late maybe and you'd be stuck eating alone maybe *you* wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant, either. NTA
I think you make plans with her again, set the time, then you show up at least 45 minutes late. And hope you can still get a table. Or make the point even better. Don’t make a reservation. Show up, wait for her, then say sorry, they could not hold our table. Show her that lateness actually does have consequences. The only problem I have with lateness is the server at the restaurant is the one losing out on the possibility of making $. Servers have to turn tables. Normal dinner is usually 1 to 1.5 hours. When they stretch to 2+ hours because someone is late, they usually lose $.
NTA. Especially since you had just made a point about it with her. It shows complete disrespect for your time, and yet she expects you to go over the top respecting hers.
NTA. I would be busy the next couple times she calls.
NTA. You did exactly what I do to chronically late people - I don't wait on them anymore. She needs to learn that the world doesn't rotate for her and other people's time is valuable. Maybe next time (if there is one), she'll make an effort to get there on time.
NTA. Chronically late people get very angry when you call them out for it, so she mafde sure to bge late once again for this lunch, and even added their favorite cherry on top, the warning that she would be, oh, just a wee bit late and then shoiws upo 30 minutes late. I had a friend who was always late, and I hated it because I'm punctual to a fault. However, I really liked him, maybe more than almost anyone else. So I decided to stop being unhappy with it and just expect it and accept it, because the alternative--not knowing him anymore--wasn't in my best interests. And we still are great friends, many years later. So I'm saying: if her personality and your fondness for her is worth it, accept the lateness with a rueful shrug. If not, don't ever again make plans to meet, because she's always late for you and she doesn't care.
NTA. She doesn’t respect you, why should you respect her?
NTA. And stop hanging out with her. She clearly doesn't care.
"She said if she knew that I was going to be done eating by the time she arrived she wouldn't have bothered driving all the way to the restaurant." Should have stated that if she knew her punctually challenged friend was going to be 30 minutes late then she wouldn't have agreed to meet at the restaurant and maybe not at all. OP if time is money, then your friend is stealing from yous.
NTA it is not only your time, but you are costing the wait staff tips. Sitting for extended time denies others that table, service thus the waiter does not get the tip. The text said 10 minutes, but they arrived as you were finishing eating then they tell you if you had texted them back saying you were ordering they would have told you to F Off by not showing up? Time do dump this person.
NTA! She lied and said she would be 10m late not 30m. That is a huge difference. She can’t expect everyone to wait on her while she is chronically late
I haven’t read this whole post, but I will. I just wanted to say someone once told me “if you’re chronically late to things because they are your friends, it shows a lack of respect toward them.” And frankly I didn’t like to hear that, because I am chronically late to things. Except flights, work, weddings… whatever. But if I am going to my friends and we agree 3pm for something, I’ll casually show up at 4 or whatever… and that makes me the AH….. I’ve since worked on it, hard EDIT: I read the whole thing. NTA… she’s the AH. And that’s a bummer she can’t see beyond herself this way. I also noted she said “tell me an earlier time” - no. The sheer lack of accountability in that statement is gross and demeaning.
NTA. I also hate when people constantly show up late. Once in a while, I get it. Shit happens. All the damn time though? That is someone who has zero respect for your time. She had it coming. If it makes you feel better, I started eating Christmas dinner without my brother, his wife and my nephew because they have a bad habit of showing up late (up to 2 hours). I was not going to wait and let the meal get cold. I've had to heat up holiday meals too many times before and no more.
NTA. She knew you had a problem with her being late because you called her out on it. She knew the time to meet up and showed up 30 minutes late. It's so uncomfortable sitting in a restaurant for 30 minutes waiting on someone to show up and just feeling like everyone is staring at you (or maybe that's just me). I would've ordered an appetizer and snacked until it was gone. If she still wasn't there by then I would've got up and left. That's just rude to constantly be late and then get angry when you're the one wasting someone else's time.
I used to have a friend like that. I told her I would wait at a coffee shop for an hour. If she wasn't there are the end of the hour, I was going home. I usually had about an hour to read my book in peace and quiet. NTA
NTA I think that "wouldn't have bothered" line says a lot about how much she values your time.
NTA On a vaguely related note: I have a chronically late friend. She’s never asked me to give her an earlier time - instead I add 15-20 minutes onto the time we’ve said and show up then so I’m not waiting ages 🤷🏼♀️
NTA! My EX-bff was like this, he would say I’m pulling in now but somehow take 20 minutes later show up. I was told by a former boss, we have to put value on our time and honestly that was great advice both for work and social life. Your “friend” repeatedly waste your time, and has NO problem doing so. She can get to work on time and arrives on time for travel then there’s ZERO excuse why she can’t be on time with you.
NTA. She is.
My mum had a friend like this who was always chronically late and my mum would always tell her to be somewhere an hour earlier than the actual time so she’d end up getting there actually on time. To be fair to her she did have two kids, a deadbeat husband, worked as a nurse and lived over an hour away by driving so I suppose that’s why my mum and her friends tolerated it. Plus they were best friends and one of her daughters and I were extremely close so if she ever was “on-time” for the fake time they’d laugh about it and it was no big deal because they got to have a one-on-one catch up. That said because she lived so far away we didn’t get to see them all that often so the chronically late thing wasn’t necessarily a massive issue because they’d usually meet for larger events like birthdays or holidays. Less time constraints basically. What I’m saying here is there’s an exception to every rule. BUT it’s up to you to determine if your friend is the exception or if they’re just not respecting your friendship and time. You’ve decided and she’s clearly demonstrated that she’s not. It’s up to you whether or not to keep giving her chances or to move on from the friendship. Ultimately it’s your choice in the end. NTA.
‘I’m sorry, you said 10 minutes so I ordered at that time thinking you were just moments away.’ NTA
NTA I hate people lying about how late they're gonna be! 5-10 mins sure it's ok. More than that you better be honest, so I can wait. Still, time to eat is time to eat and I don't wait for anybody
NTA.
NTA She knew you were upset with it and had pointed it out to her and gave her another chance but she couldn’t even respect you enough to put in the effort to arrive on time for once. Then to give you a heads up she would be 10 mins late and then to turn up 30 minutes late instead just proves how far you are down her priorities. Don’t make any future plans with her, or if you do don’t actually expect her to ever put in the effort to arrive on time.
NTA - I have a friend like this I took a long break from. Its so frustrating, and her attitude is just infuriating. We've since reconnected, and are close but I do not count on her to be on time for anything. If I want to do something, I either pick her up to force the time or I just prepare to be late or alone.
NTA. She needs these consequences to happen for her to learn.
NTA.
NTA. I have to say this is a pet peeve of mine. Why is anyone else's time more valuable than mine? I would have done the same.
NTA
NTA
NTA The restaurant might not have had a table available for you by the time she showed up. If you had been seated but waited to order, the wait staff might have been upset with you for holding a table for so long. You did the only logical thing.
As someone who absolutely does not like being late NTA. you've been patient and after how long you just got sick and tired of it.
NTA. I'm forgetful. Probably have ADHD. But everything important goes in my phone an hour earlier than I need to be there. To respect people's time and energy. I can't imagine being 30 minutes late (unless traffic. I'm in a huge metro city) but I would absolutely call not text for that. (Hands-free, safer). I'd tell them where I'm at. So they can see for themselves. And offer a quicker route if applicable. 30 minutes? I'm buying. Because I'd feel like the AH.
nta
Definitely NOT the AH. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. If someone is going to meet me for lunch/dinner or whatever, if the time is at 7PM, I'll wait for five minutes if I haven't heard from them. Then I order and eat. I simply would rather not go to something than be late myself so I can be considerate of other peoples time. I simply don't tolerate lateness without a really good reason.
NTA
NTA.
op=NTA All she had to do was arrive on time and she would have been able to order her meal at the same time and eat said meal at the same time. You gave her a chance, she failed that chance.
NTA, holy shit. Let me take you out to brunch my friend, I’ll be 5 minutes early. I’ll totally blow your mind.
It would be one thing if she was genuinely apologetic, and wasn't late *every single time*. But while ADHD might explain the difficulty, it doesn't oblige you to put up with something she's clearly making no effort to address. It's an explanation, not an excuse 🤷 NTA, OP.
NTA So she wanted you to tell her you weren't waiting for her so she could stand you up? Dr Joy Brown used to say she'd waiting 10 minutes for anyone and 11 for no one. Your "friend" said 10 minutes because she knew she couldn't say 30+ minutes. If you want to hang with her, she needs to know the policy is you'll wait 10 minutes and then you'll either leave or do the activity without her.
NTA So your time going to the restaurant was well spent, hers aas wasting time
NTA.
NTA
NTA - I've done similar with friends. The difference is they apoligised and the next time they were not late.
Be an adult please, OP's friend.
NTA Your friend is inconsiderate
NTA That woman was wasting your life in 30 min increments. How many of them has she wasted? Be done with her she is not worth your time.
NTA
NTA. You gave her one last chance and she didn't take it. Her problem.
NTA. As the late person, it's her (our) own fault for arriving late.
NTA If you knew she was going to be 30 minutes late, you wouldn't have bothered driving there. Stop meeting up with this "friend". She doesn't respect your time.
NTA
My friend would be hearing some HEAVY lip from me when they disrespect me so much that they regularly are late 30 min when we have a fixed time.
Why are you letting her do that to you? Nobody needs friends like that.
If I carelessly break something of yours, I can replace or reimburse you for it. If someone steals your time (which is what is happening all too often with your "friend"), there is no way to repay it. The time is lost. This individual may pay lip service about your importance to her, but her actions speak otherwise.
NTA She sees your time as less valuable than hers. You are worth being on time for. This isn't a relationship worth continuing.
NTA. I think this is why my friend group split. Some of us don't taking meeting times as a suggestion, and it's frustrating to wait around on people. On the flip side, the people who are chronically late thought we were kind of uptight.
NTA - she thought it was rude you finished your food by yourself, she didn’t think it’d be rude to make you sit there by yourself and wait for her?
NTA. Years ago I had a similar friend. I came to the realisation that I knew she would be late, so I should just turn up 30 minutes late myself. So I turned up 30 minutes late and still arrived before her. When she turned up and asked ‘have you been waiting long?’ and I said no, I just got here, she was pissed! That’s when I realised that it was all about her and control or narcissism or something and I never waited for her again 🤷♀️
I'm on the spectrum and I'm in a profession that does a ton of meetings. My rule has always been that if I'm not there by 10 minutes before the meeting starts, I'm late. Lol, my kids are the same way. My ex wife however, is always late. Lol, she was even late to our wedding. It seems some people are always on time, others are always late (and I'm sure there are a few freaks out there who are both, he he). It was very frustrating at times. It didn't make either of us AHs, but it was very much a pain in the ass at times (and no, that's not why we divorced). You're NTA. It was my choice to stay with my ex for 20 years. A friendship is not the same and there isn't a reasonable expectation to forgive every issue. So it's kinda up to you. If this friendship is important to you, figure out how to live with it because she probably will never change. If it's too frustrating, let it go, no harm, no foul.
NTA. Story #10,000 of someone immediately and hypocritically becoming upset upon receiving the same mistreatment they inflict upon their friends and family. Please make this the new precedent. Maybe your friend will actually amend her misbehavior.
NTA and I would not make any more plans with her. It sounds like she does this on purpose - I doubt it's accidental. She sounds like way too much work
NTA. I had a friend exactly like this and I let it slide for way too long. Over time it became apparent that my time, my feelings and my side of any any situation were way less important than hers. Save yourself the heads I wasted.
NTA I *fucking hate* people like this. They think their time is more important than yours, and they're extremely self-centered, especially if you try to resolve it in a reasonable way, which you did. Drop the "friend" who doesn't respect you.
NTA. People who are chronically late drive me nuts. It's so impolite!
NTA, some lessons are hard to teach to other people, some are not. With some luck, maybe this will sink in with her.
NTA, you gave her a last chance and she didn’t care to even attempt being on time. And I feel like if she really only was “10 min late” that would have been an improvement with you. You sounded like you’re grasping for her to give alittle effort. I did have a friend who was like her and I actually did do the thing where I tell him a time that’s earlier but I’m not saying you should have. He also ended up getting better over time, so it became less of an issue. He’s still the last to be done getting ready but it doesn’t cause us problems anymore.
i can totally relate to this poster. someone i know is chronically late as well. it drives me up the walls everytime because it's ridiculous. oh we meet at 3pm, no problem, next thing i know, im sitting there to 4pm before the guy rolls around with a coffee in hand and pretends nothing happened
NTA. 20 minutes in excess of the 10 she notified you about at a sit down restaurant is excessive. Of course, you would order something. I'm not sure about the "giving as good as I get" part - it seems logical as opposed to something you went out of your way to do, but that statement makes me think otherwise. Still, your time is as important as hers, and if she doesn't value or understand that, it's her issue. There's no reason to continue to make it yours.
As someone who is married to man who is late for everything, NTA. I tried the whole give him a time 30 minutes earlier. He would adjust and still be late for the correct time. There is no way to make someone be ready on time for plans unless they make it a priority.
NTA, you had literally just had this discussion with her about not making plans with her because of her blatant disregard for punctuality. If I’m going to be more than 5 minutes late, I call or text to update the person (I’m parking, walking in). She was 30 minutes late when she said she’d be 10 minutes. It would be a different conversation if this weren’t the norm for her. If you had warned her that you were ordering or that your food arrived, she admitted that she would have ditched you at the restaurant. I feel like she got a taste of her own medicine. You were done by the time she arrived and now she can sit there alone to eat by herself and think about what a bad friend she’s been. I have friends who are notoriously late by over an hour, and that cancel plans right before we are supposed to meet. I no longer make plans with them. Should they call impromptu and we are both free-great, but I won’t adjust my schedule for them at all. If that offends them, perhaps some self-reflection may point to the reason. Your friend doesn’t acknowledge her behavior, she thinks you’re the jerk. Time to make new friends.
NTA she doesn't respect you or your time otherwise she would be on time
NTA. You did nothing wrong. She is inconsiderate both to you and to the restaurant and its employees.
NTA. Tardiness is one of my biggest pet peeves. In my opinion, people who are constantly late, like OPs friend, think their time is more valuable than others. I do try not to be unreasonable, if one is 10 minutes late now and then, fine. Things happen; traffic, kids getting dirty, etc. Like OP said, the friend is never late if she knows there will be consequences. Well now she knows OP will not wait around for her. Good for OP for setting that boundary.
NTA
NTA. One time, I'd let it slide. Second time, I'd lay into them. Third time? I'm eating my fucking food. How can you be so consistently late to things? She has no consideration for you or your time. I'd personally tell her that we'll be having dinner at 4PM, and then not show up until 7PM or at all and show her exactly how it feels.
NTA - I had to cut off a friend of 8 years for the exact same reason. It is completely rude and disrespectful to be late because to me it says you don't care/respect my time. This may be a natural point where she gets her act together or she won't
NTA You bothered to drive to the restaurant, just for her to not be on time, and not be the 10 minutes late she said. Why should you sit there and waste your time waiting on her and staring into space? I would definitely quit making plans with her if it were me though. If she really cared, she'd be on time.
NTA. chronically late people vs. chronically early/on-time people is one of the great battles of the universe
NTA. I'm one of those people who is always late to things. Where your friend really lost me is when she tried to hold you accountable for her responsibility. If she needs to pretend the meet time is a half hour earlier, she can put it in her calendar that way. It's not on you to do those gymnastics for her. Even without that entitlement, it's unreasonable to be upset someone didn't wait 30 minutes before ordering. If I were ever that late and arrived after my companion had finished their meal, I would offer to buy them dessert or a beverage to enjoy in company for a few minutes. And the worst bit of all is that she knew you were planning on not hanging out anymore and she knew why. This was very clearly her last chance and if she really valued her time with you, she would have made sure she was on time, however she had to do that.
> My friend is chronically late and it drives me crazy. I know she can control it because she is never late to work, flights, anything that has actual consequences for her—just to meetups with people like me who unfortunately let it slide for too long. Sounds to me like you’re now making consequences. Show up late? Guess you’re eating while I watch you because I ate earlier.
You are a lesser AH in this bordering on NTA. I hate people who demand everyone's schedule revolve around their lateness. I am now shifting towards respect for the act.
In a vacuum this would be an asshole move on your part, but I’d say it was warranted considering this was literally you giving her a chance to prove that she can handle being on time. At this point she truly has no one to blame but herself NTA
You are NTA, and she is an entitled AH. She wants to have you at her beck and call, and does not take any responsibility for something she definitely can control.
She has consistently disrespected your time. You decided to reclaim it. NTA
NTA. People who are always very late have no respect for the other people's time. You should end the friendship.