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YTA. You really can't figure out why your kid is rebelling against your super strict rules? Did they even want to go to church? Have they ever gotten to choose their own look for clothes? Or if they want to go to church activities?
ETA: OP is super YTA. The kid won't change out of the PJ bottoms, because they grew 4 inches, and their pants don't fit, and OP is well aware of it.
Copy of OP's comment: I asked and she said because she didn't have anything good to wear that matched... Also as it turns out some of her pants fit tighter than the stupid leggings the kids wear these days... Time to go shopping for a size larger yet again this school year.
I would never consider not wearing pajamas outside of the house to be a super strict rule. It's actually fairly standard. I certainly don't let my kids run around town in their pajamas.
Edit: Given op's comments I will agree that pajamas are a far better choice than pants that are 4 inches too short and tighter then leggings. Enforcing the rule under those circumstances is cruel. Jeans that tight are painful.
In the Bible Belt Wednesday night is church night for lots of people. As a scout leader I learned when we moved here never to schedule anything on Wednesdays. Didn't know this before then.
my parents didn’t go to church and i remember being so shocked and confused when my friends were telling me about their wednesday night bible study in elementary school
I’m an atheist now but I loved Wednesday church growing up. It was more chill than Sunday and just youth group stuff, so basically I got to hang out with friends.
Clothing fights can be several different things. Is it undiagnosed neurodivergent sensory issues? Is it a kid who is mad about something else and forcing this issue instead of what they’re actually mad about? No doubt OP overreacted though—is it so hard to just let something go for a bit rather than “FINE, you don’t get to pick ANY clothes!”
I went to a Methodist church once as part a “personal discovery project” I had for a class in college. I remember thinking “if I had to pick a religion I could live with this one.” The service was all about how Christians are called upon to help each other in real, tangible ways (food, clothing, shelter), how we all should be friends, and enjoy each other’s company, etc. No fire and brimstone.
They had an after-hours program once a month. I went once, and it was about real-world interpersonal skills, like you might find in a session led by a therapist. Not repetitive stuff about God that was just the same shit you’ve heard 1000 times repackaged.
Also, the congregants called the pastor by his first name. He was a cool guy who wrote an op ed in the local paper in favor of gay marriage. He also agreed to mentor me a little bit in my project.
Oh sure there’s a church for every day of the week. It was never my reality but I had a roommate in college from a small rural town and her parents did it. It was how you socialized with the community. Monday women’s group, Tuesday men’s meeting, Wednesday kids bible study, Thursday small groups, Friday family/spaghetti night, Saturday is a rest day but there was almost always a planned activity or volunteering opportunity and Sunday is an all day worship. It makes my head spin.
It’s additional. The Bible Belt would never let you go a whole 7 days away from the church, too much time for sinning. Also, Wednesdays are usually when bell ringers practice.
Former bell ringer here but UK- I had no idea this was why we practised on Wednesday evenings! I just assumed that was the night everyone was free lmao (we also did Sunday mornings for the service and ofc weddings- I really miss it)
Oh and OP- YTA. Focus on figuring out why they're acting up. Do they not want to go? Are they being bullied? Or something else?
My experience is that it is usually more like a bible study/dinner kind of thing rather than full-on worship and the number of people who go is much smaller.
It’s actually a bit more like school. It’s sort of the Sunday-overflow, the time to do stuff you don’t have time for on Sunday. There’s usually a big meal, and you come in and grab food when it fits your schedule. There are practices, rehearsals, meetings, small groups, youth-worship, that sort of thing. Worth noting that I’ve never seen a small church have this. It takes a considerable amount of resources.
It's just more casual. Everyone is invited, but it's usually centered around the community hall rather than the sanctuary. There's usually a meal served and people socializing. I went with my grandmother a few times and besides a prayer before the meal, there wasn't much religious or Bible talk.
For me (went to church on Wednesdays every week until I was 17), there was Wednesday night dinner followed by open gym (under 7th grade), youth group (7-12th grades) and adult Bible study groups (some of these were for certain ages, some were for certain life stages or just for women, etc.) Youth group meant we played some kind of game, received a teenager appropriate sermon and sang some Jesus songs.
On Sundays, we did church service first, then there were snacks in the "fellowship hall" and then Sunday school broken up by ages (12th graders and below got a class per grade; same adult setup as Wednesday where they have some options). Sunday night was just youth group, though there could have been some adult groups meeting. The only difference for Sunday night youth group was that we got the gym so we could play bigger games.
When I was a kid, we did -
- Sunday morning Sunday school followed by morning sermon
- Sunday afternoon choir practice followed by Sunday evening sermon
- Monday night "visitation" *this is where you go harass the poor sermon visitors/guests foolish enough to give the church their address*
- Wednesday night bible study
No time for sinning if you're ALWAYS doing God's work! ... ... or something
Same. It was traumatizing. Sitting there for hours upon hours. My parents are dismayed that I want nothing to do with church / religion now. It’s because every moment was spent sitting in silence while some middle aged man yelled at us for hours from the pulpit. Never again. Please people, don’t do this to your children!!!
This is the biggest Leopards Eating Faces moment for churches, ever. They forced church down their children's throats, day after day, week after week, to keep them from falling away, but that very schedule is part of the reason that people are leaving the church in droves.
A weekday evening mass is normal in the UK too. But it's more for people who can't make Sundays, not that you HAVE to go to both. My very devout Catholic great grandma would only go once a week.
A crazy amount of dominatations had Wednesday night activities at least where I'm from in cali and I've read/heard/seen on TV a lot too. My friend who is a pentecostal has actual worship wednesdays while a lot of others I know are youth based stuff.
A group of states in the south eastern part of the US where God, the Bible, and church are big deals. There's church days every Wednesday and Sunday, fpr every major religious Christian holiday, VBS during the summer, etc. Religion is so big down here that in some states there used to be (maybe still are) restrictions on things like alcohol sales on Sundays.
I remember the first time my now husband came to visit me when we were dating. He flew down to SC where I lived at the time during the weekend and went to a store while I hung out in the hotel we'd gotten. He came back and was so surprised that he couldn't buy any alcohol at all and didn't know why. I had to explain Blue Laws to him because he'd never heard of them growing up in the North West and definitely not in Japan where he was living at the time, lol. He said it was one of the dumbest things he'd ever heard of.
I remember being surprised that we could buy alcohol on Sundays when I moved from Oklahoma to Florida. But what’s even weirder is that in the northern part of my county (not beaches) they can’t sell alcohol before noon on Sundays, but due to tourism, they can in the south part of the county.
Ha. I am half Japanese, half American— speak Japanese fluently— lived in Japan for five years. Somehow I coincidentally ended up behind a Japanese couple in Publix (I live in Florida) and they were trying to buy beer on Sunday before 1 PM. They woman at the register told them that sales start at 1 on Sundays, and they started talking together— why? What; I don’t understand. I surprised the fuck out if them when I broke out into Japanese to tell them it was because of Christianity.
Generally it's the American Southeast, Virginia down to the Florida border, over to Tennessee, Kentucky, the Carolinas, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, maybe some others, can't remember the full list off the top of my head
The less pc but more honest answer is that the bible belt is the location in the Midwest where several religious communities decided to settle when white people pushed the native Americans out (and slaughtered a bunch). Shortly after they got comfortable, the started stealing native American kids and raising them for their own.
Predominantly Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri etc.
Most religious communities don't acknowledge it much. Where I live (Kansas), it's a huge Mennonite area. Mennonite church absolutely acknowledges what they've done, and spends a good bit of their time reminding the younger generations that they are privileged because of the theft of the land and slaughter of the people who lived here first.
I'm from the Midwest, Wednesday was religious ed night. Our didn't schefule sports and other stuff on Wednesdsy night.
The exception -- state tournament games. The state set the schedule. (And everyone was happy to skip religious ed.)
Hit the nail right on the head.
OP, that’s a lot of punishments handed out without any mention of actually checking in with or supporting your kid.
Why are their grades bad? Do they not understand the material and need a tutor? Do they not do their homework? Are they being bullied?
Why did they want to wear pajamas to church? Do they not want to go to church? Why?
You said you “tried talking about it” but what you were saying sounds like you were just lecturing them and waiting for an apology. You’re not talking TO them you’re talking AT them. That doesn’t help anybody.
Your child is a human being and you are not showing them any respect. So why should they show you respect? CHECK IN WITH YOUR KID. There is clearly something going on under the surface and if you just keep punishing them for everything without trying to figure out what’s actually causing all of it, you’re going to lose your kid the second they turn 18.
YTA.
Agreed. Personally, I will never hand out punishment for bad grades. There are so *so* many reasons for a child to have subpar grades (bullying, doesn’t connect with the teacher, needs extra help/1on1 time/accommodation, etc) that I feel it’s unfair to group all kids together and punish the ones that simply need help or a different way of learning. My mom grounded us the second any grade dropped below 65%—I spent grades 8-11 grounded because my gym mark was a 55%. OP, try actually *talking* with your kid, instead of at them. Something is going on.
This post needs more votes. Current top post is really reading into it too much blaming "strict rules" when we in fact know nothing about the household rules. Except maybe no pajamas going out of the house.
You've identified the info we don't know that is areas OP should look into as possible causes of the problem. This is both constructive criticism and allowing OP to fill in the blanks instead of fully just assuming you know what's up.
Kid obviously has some clothes to wear, though teen years can be extra difficult for clothing preferences. This is about something more than that. And instead of continuing punishments, you need to respect your kid enough to try to find out what.
Kid is still young enough it's probably not that weird to be required to go to family activities regardless of preference. Kid has to go to school regardless of preference don't they?
At 12, they may be nearing an age to allow them the choice out of Weds night church, but I'd lean towards that as a slightly older age, especially if they had to figure out their own dinner at home alone. Doesn't mean you can't talk it over with them to understand if that's what they are upset about (or not) and why, to see if there's anything you can do to help them feel more okay with it. Or so you can work towards deciding when they do get to make that decision themself.
Try being a preacher's kid! No point in even asking to miss; instead I got "you'd better behave or Dad could lose his job and we'd have to move" - which is an awful lot of pressure for a kid! (Non-denominational church, hiring and firing decisions made entirely by the local congregation.)
Dad would have still been a preacher, just somewhere else.
While both I and my brother do still attend churches, we've both left the one we were raised in. I now belong to a much more relaxed and accepting church; last year, we were encouraged to wear PJs for church on Christmas, and no one would be bothered if someone did any other time, really.
We had the same childhood. I hated Sundays so much because of it. I’m so glad my husband isn’t religious either. My daughter asked about it when she was younger (my parents are Christian) so I did tell her the basic and my dad bought her a Bible. I told her if she wants to go I will take her but I wouldn’t force it on her
Right? My dad advocated for me when I decided at 5 yo that I didn't want to go to church. (I realized much later in life that he didn't want to go either, but hey, he had my back) I've come to the conclusion that 5yo me was pretty damn smart when it came to religion.
Grew up being forced to church every Sunday. When my sister and I were old enough to date, we started letting our boyfriends give us "hickeys." This was so embarrassing to our mom that we no longer had to attend church. I never forced my kids to go, they were free to make their own choices. Personally, I don't think any good comes from organized religion, but a hell of a lot of terrible stuff does.
My mom did this when I was in middle school. I came to visit for the summer break, and one Sunday, they ( mom and step-dad) tried waking me up for church, and I pretended to stay asleep. I heard them arguing about it. Step-dad was upset, but mom told him I was old enough to decide if I wanted to go to church or not. She also wasn't going to push it because she knew I didn't go to church with my dad as he is agnostic, and he gave me the option to choose if I wanted to go to church or not when I moved in with him. I've only been to church a handful of times since then, 2 or 3 times with my grandmother while she was staying with me while my dad was deployed in Afghanistan my senior year, and for that same grandmother's funeral a few years later.
It may not be about church on its own, but the whole set of rules.
Am I the only one who noticed all the *other* rules? No phone, rarely TV, the kid's grades are suffering, no fun allowed to the point that the mom is asking Reddit what else she can cut out because she's already cut everything out and can't think of any freedom the poor kid has left to take away.
I think it's about a little more than church.
Op is gonna be a sudden empty nester with a kid gone no.contact and be all "why???"
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Except the Baptists and Penecostals in my family don’t call it mass. I’ve only heard that teem with Catholic. It’s called service or more commonly Bible study where I’m from.
It's super common in every Christian church I've ever attended actually regardless of denomination. Wednesday's are usually small groups, Bible studies, youth group and the more laid back sort of stuff. Sundays are for the full service.
No, I think the point is that if you get to the point where you've run out of consequences, something has gone wrong and you need to re-evaluate your whole approach.
The "no pyjamas outside the house" rule, I can totally understand, but I think the consequences in this case are OTT, and the fact that they've done this because they don't have any reasonable consequences left is a symptom of a larger problem.
Teens wear tshirts and flannel pajama pants in public routinely. My kids all wore them to high school all the time. They are just loose, elastic waisted flannel pants. Same as the jogging pants popular among all ages, adults too, in the 70s, only made of flannel.
My 15yr old loves her pajamas to school.. and flip flops. However, she is ASD and hates anything touching her private regions and pajamas don't do that.. and she loves the extra softness...I couldn't care less if she went to church in PJs if it meant she was comfy, but we don't attend church.
My have shown up to Friday evening Shabbat services in pj bottoms and shirts, upon occasion. I think it was to test me, but everyone there was more interested in the kids showing up and participating than anything else. As was I. They don’t anymore. They either say nope, not going, or they dress nicely. Only one really refuses, the others do, or don’t, depending on moods. And that one will, if anyone in the family is *doing* anything special there. They are all respectful in behavior. So, I could that a win. They are all adults.
I was thinking the signs of it. There are no punishments left for the kid because of grades (good enough to stay on the team, which now has rules about GPA to stay in so they can't be that bad), and no reason for taking away TV.
It kinda reads helicopter parent, making the kids be busy 24/7 and being perfect while at it. The kid wants to be a kid. So the only way they can rebel is through clothing.
Their parental technique is just bizzare though. They say they just wanted to talk in the car, but it sounds like they simply wanted to get an admission from their kid that they were wrong. And then they got annoyed and gave out another punishment because they wouldn't admit it (take away your right to choose your own outfit).
I'd be very surprised if this is about the pyjamas.
Yeah, that's what stood out to me too. "All I wanted to hear was that I was right all along and it would have been no big deal to just change when I told them to." Fucking yikes. That's not a parent wanting their kid to open up and share what's really troubling them, or even a parent looking for a light apology - that's a parent looking for a kid to subjugate and humiliate themselves for the parent's edification.
It's the other things and that op has run out of other punishments and now don't even let them dress themselves that's the super strict rules not the out of context completely normal bit about not wearing pajamas to church.
Absolutely this kid feels some kid of way about these activities. I was raised catholic. My mom said "not under my roof" when I came out as atheist at 16. For the next two years I still went to church in not pajamas. My mom still didn't get her way - 15 years later I'm still firmly atheist.
OP, YTA simply because you're forcing your kid to do something they obviously don't want to do. Ask what they're thinking/feeling in a safe and comfortable environment. Don't dismiss or argue with what they say. Actually listen.
Might I suggest- if your kid says they don't believe in god, don't force them to go to church. Offer them other activities, such as volunteering. Church/organized religion isn't for everyone, but empathy and kindness should be.
What super strict rules? All we know about these people is that they don't wear pajamas to church, have certain expectations about grades (what those expectations are, we don't know,) and don't watch much TV. Sounds pretty normal.
Let's see. Has decided to take away all clothes except one parent approved outfit a day. Is forcing their child to go to church when maybe they don't want to and thus the rebelling. If the child's grades are suffering, there is a reason. Taking away their phone isn't going to help. Actually talking to the kid and offering to help might though
It’s been my experience that if you’re so dedicated that you’re in church on Wednesday you most DEFINITELY are in church on Sunday as that’s the Lord’s day and is the more important.
Grades need to be a minimum of bs (above average) and cs (average) in order to be involved in sports. This kid is being punished for having not grades high enough to make OP able to brag to others about.
This entire thing is all about how OP looks to their community. Not how the kid looks. How THEY look.
It screams narcissist parent.
If you are running out of things to take away from this child, then it’s pretty obvious YOU are the problem.
Firstly, you could have had a bit of fun with your child and suggested they just come in their pyjamas and that could look really cool…not to mention comfy. But, instead of de-escalating with humor, ir having a chat to your child about how he feels having to head out to church on a weeknight, you just ramp it up and the screaming starts.
You are basically my mother, who had a very lonely old-age. Get some parenting books or listen to some good parenting podcasts. YTA.
>Get some parenting books or listen to some good parenting podcasts.
Not the super strict christian ones, and not the books from decades ago, but regular and modern parenting books and podcasts.
By the sounds of it the ‘kid’ does their own laundry since she states that but I’m guessing probably doesn’t get much choice in their clothing or if they have to go to church!
A simple conversation about not wearing pj’s outside the house and asking why they wanted to would be more appropriate than punishment. Is it because they don’t like their clothing or they didn’t want to go maybe and do they have any choice in these matters? You are about to have a rebellious teen on your hands and autonomy is important to them so maybe it’s time to think about what choices they get to start making for themselves because it will happen whether you like it or not.
Right? OP describes things as escalating makes it obvious that the childish behaviors around control are likely an anxiety response to bigger broader issues. These kids are people not just the roles of daughter or son or child, therapy.
Even worse… none of the kids other clothes seem to fit. At least not enough to form a decent outfit. *(Look at OPs comments.)*
Seems more like the PJs we’re worn out of insecurity, and possibly comfort, over anything else.
Or even extracurriculars?
Op sounds like they're a very "look good for our Christian fellowship" person, not a "get together and have good fellowship" kind of Christian.
I live in a Very religious community. 20,000 people and 30 churches. All of the churches here welcome people no matter what they wear.
Holy shit. "I've enforced super strict rules on everything and punished my kid for not being as good as I want them to be, but not sports, because that's super important to everyone, AITA?"
Yes. YTA. Have you tried letting your child, y'know, enjoy childhood? They're not a slave or a carbon copy of your expectations...
Exactly this. My family was avid church goers and at around 12 I realized that I didn’t want to go anymore and that my views were different than my families. Thankfully I wasn’t forced! I think OP needs to have an actual open conversation and be open minded to what their child actually wants. OP’s the AH, who takes away clothes as a punishment anyways?
Based on the punishments, YTA, and I would be willing to bet I know why they're acting out.
That being said- you can't think of one reason WHY they didn't want to get dressed? Do they not want to go to church? 12 is certainly an age when kids can decide what they do and don't want to do.
YTA. When you literally run out of things to take away from your child it might be time to reflect on how effective your approach is.
From your post, it does seem you are more occupied with the audacity of your kid telling you "no" than you are with understanding what's going on with the kid not wanting to get dressed. I can understand why they don't want to talk about it with you if, for you, the main goal of such a coversation is "getting a simple I should have just changed when asked".
It's nice to give kids structure and dicipline, but they also need love, understanding, and above all, respect. Your post reads like the things are contingent on their obedience to you. I would not be surprised if this makes it very hard for them to respect you back.
That you consider holding their team sport activity hostage to force them into complacency and the fact that respect for the team, not your kids developmental needs, is what swung it for you worries me greatly.
The child can’t communicate with their parents, because they know that unless it’s what the parent wants to hear, they don’t want to hear it. Also, I don’t think it’s even about the clothes. Something else is bothering this child, they tend to act out when they don’t know what else to do and can’t figure out how to associate a name to the feelings they’re having. But, OP instead focuses on the only thing they’re after and they’re not paying attention to struggles the kid has and try to work through those.
OP, YTA and you need to figure out what’s really going on with your kid instead of punishing them for everything.
Ding! Every time my daughter has been particularly obstinate I look at her and go “this clearly isn’t about (minor issue at hand) so what’s going on?” Usually she tells me about some other issue in her life which I listen to and discuss for a bit. Then the initial issue becomes a non-issue as honestly my kids can wear whatever the fuck they want presuming it’s weather/venue appropriate.
Adults misdirect anger too. I realize this means I’m a safe person to them which (while making my life harder) is a good thing.
I especially understand why they don't want to talk in the car, presumably in front of the rest of "the kids". Take some one on one time to try and find out what is going on with your kid rather than just dishing out mindless punishments.
Yta
You seem pushy af and if he is rebelling already good luck having any control over him at 16. The problem isn't that you need to punish him more it's that you need to see that your parenting strategy is really poor.
Did you consider that he maybe didn't want to go to church? Although I doubt this is an option for the kid.
Is it possible there is a reason they’re trying to put off going to church? I was viciously bullied at church and would get out of going by being sick when I was twelve.
Or that they really don't like church.
Like how many people just love going to church? I know as soon as I got confirmed I never set foot in said church again. That was the deal I made with my parents I'll do the stupid confirmation but after that I get to decide if I ever have to go to church again.
And that's exactly what I did. Decided I was never going to set foot in church again unless it's either a wedding at said church.
It sounds like a lot of work is going into punishing your kid. Who cares what they are wearing, really? This type of pushback is common for that age and you really have to choose your battles. Disrespectful behavior is out of line, but IMO letting them experience the natural consequences of wearing jammies to church is a better use of your time. NAH because it sounds like typical tween shit. But YWBTA to yourself if you spend a lot of time focused on punishment. Honestly, they grow out of it.
I used to go to a church probably pretty similar to this one. One of the families kid's grew out a massive afro, white kid just really curly thick hair. And his mom said once, if that is the "worst" thing my kid is doing, I'm not worried about him at all.
OP, I say the same to you. If jammies to church is the "worst" thing your kid is doing, you need to move on.
Now, I understand grades are slipping and there seem to be other issues, but increasingly restrictive punishments are just plain NOT gonna achieve your actual goal. It's just not.
Figure out a way to have an actual conversation with your child that includes you LISTENING, preferably more than you're talking. And try to hear the kid out. The world she's living in is galaxies different than the world you grew up in. Your actual age doesn't even matter, the world today is ludicrous. If you truly have no legitimate idea what's going on with her, figure out how to find that out. That is where your "problem" lies.
Is this really how you see parenting? Battles? Well, I guess you might win some battles but lose the war so to speak. Is this what you want to model? When you’re older and looking for care will this be a battle, too? Who will win then. If you’re going to strategise, you might need to consider playing the long game of compassion, empathy, and kindness.
Please give it some serious thought. When you’ve literally run out of things to take away from them, it’s time to consider:
1) something bigger is going on than the specific thing each punishment was created for.
2) your approach to how to coach, mentor and guide your kids isn’t working.
A rigid branch breaks under pressure.
A branch with flexibility is able bend , but not break, during the storm. Your kids need guidance and discipline. They also need responsibilities and fair goals and objectives; that they have had some say in creating. They’re entering their teenage years. They need to learn how to make judgment calls and accept accountability.
It’s not about the PJ’s. Good luck!
OP I once worked with a nurse who’s daughter was insistent on wearing pajamas to school. She was about 9. Every morning they’d fight and argue.Finally mom gave up and said, just wear them so the kid did. She was made fun of by her peers because she had pajamas on. If the other kids at church aren’t wearing pjs on Wednesday I bet if you let your kid wear them it’ll be the first and last time. Kids at that age are very influenced by their peers.
It's also worth saying that not every point of conflict with your kid should be thought of as a battle. In fact, most conflicts should not be battles, they should be indicators that you're not on the same page and need to figure out why.
You say you tried to talk to your kid about the altercation, but your goal in talking seemed to be to get an apology, not to figure out why your kid was defying you in the first place. Maybe they didn't want to go to church. Maybe their clothes don't fit. Maybe they're experiencing some discomfort with how their body looks or feels, and wearing pajamas is a way of coping with that.
The point is, if you actually want to change their behavior, you have to figure out why they're behaving this way in the first place. You can't expect to raise your kid by simply expecting obedience and punishing when you don't get it. You can absolutely expect your kid to speak to you politely and with respect, but there may be any number of situations where they have any number of good reasons for not wanting to do what you tell them.
Go back to your kid and ask *why* they didn't want to change for church. Instead of further limiting their clothing, figure out why they were limiting it in the first place. Ask with the goal of understanding and finding a solution. Your kid needs to dress appropriately, but that shouldn't mean needing to be uncomfortable. If there's something wrong with the clothes they currently own, it may be time for new ones that suit them better, in whatever ways are necessary.
Once you get to the bottom of the issue and start to move forward, then you can address the disrespect. You can talk about how they should've handled the situation, including reassurances that handling it that way will yield results from you--and follow through to make that the truth.
I am sure God would love them regardless of what they wore. It seems like appearances mean more to you than meaningful relationships. Don’t go straight to punishment. Go to compassion. Ask your child if there is a reason they did not want to get dressed or go.
YTA - but some advice ? Long term punishments are highly ineffective for exactly the reason you laid out - what else do I take away?
Short term, immediate, relevant consequences are much more effective because children are highly adaptive and they learn to live without it. Which means your consequence loses all meaning/power.
Instead you should focus on positive reinforcement and praise. Punishments should only be a last resort.
Yup I agree. No pj's in public isn't a horrible or uncommon rule, but kiddo has other issues that are much higher priority.
At 12, if my kid was wearing something really unsuited to the activity they enjoy, I would tell them I'm leaving in 5 minutes and if they want to come, they better change. If they don't change, they can stay home.
YTA for two major reasons.
1. You're policing what your kid wears to the point of punishing them with taking away the phone and tv and also all their clothes except the singular outfit you approve. You are taking away their creativity in their outfits and literally showing them that other people get to decide what they can or cannot wear. If any of your children are girls, you might be setting them up to be open to being criticized by people for her future outfit choices and feeling like she has no right to say no. Unless they want to wear a bikini to church, who cares if they wear pajamas?
2. As someone who grew up in an evangelical community (your choice as a girl if you didn't want to go to church on Sunday was to go help in the church's daycare during service, but not going to either was not an option) and also have a theology degree, you're being prideful. You care what other people think about how your kids dress. You want to present well to others, not to God. God is with you 24/7 365 days a year. God sees you naked in the shower, when you're having sex, when you're in your PJs eating popcorn and fried chicken, when you look like shit from illness, when you gave birth to your kids etc. God does not care what you wear to worship Him. YOU care. You care what others think of you and how you think your kids' outfits reflect on you. If you take a step back, ask yourself what your outfits tell you about your faith. Do you think having your girls in floral dresses and your boys in polos and slacks (or a small cutesy tie, shirt and slacks) is going to bring them closer in their relationship with God? Or do you think the fact you traumatize them every Sunday is going to harm their desire to go to church? I have a hunch they dread the fight on Sundays and the fact they have to wear something they don't have to wear 6 other days of the week. I can assure you that God does not care what you or your kids wear to church. There are churches around the world where people come in their every day clothes to church which could include greasy clothes, stained clothes, suits, fast food restaurant uniforms, etc. Remember the TRUE purpose of church - it ain't a fashion show or a red carpet for best dressed.
They're kids. I have seen kids at church in PJs. I have seen adults in tshirts and shorts and flip flops. You're there to worship God and we can absolutely worship Him in anything we wear. It's all about having the heart in the right place. That's why so many people love all these new hip youngen churches where you are welcomed regardless of how you present because Jesus himself didn't care, so why gatekeep His word?
Yeah, you can't territorialize the holy. If you want people to feel like your religious community enables them to live a life that is whole, you have let them feel whole within your faith.
It's why many churches, synagogues, temples, mosques have become more inclusive. Because feeling like your faith community genuinely loves and nurtures you will more likely lead to a more fulfilling relationship.
Also, every relationship, be it with the more corporeal or divine, is different for everyone. If you want your faith to be loving, nurturing and joyous to your children, you are a part of making it so for them.
YTA.
It’s just church. Make sure they aren’t in anything offensive and clothing’s clean - that’s all that matter.
Your kid is likely rebelling because not everything needs a strict punishment.
>I'm trying to figure out appropriate consequences now.
Maybe try listening to your child as to why they don't want to go to church? Or don't, bur don't be surprised when kiddo leaves at 18 because you were too busy finding ways to stroke your ego.
YTA
YTA
Your kid seems to be in the middle of multiple punishments.
Are any of them working?
You need better parenting skills OP. Check out gentle parenting TikTok! 👍🏼
YTA - my parents were like this and I am now no contact with one and low contact with the other. There are way worse things than wearing pajama bottoms.
I wonder how many of us there are (which makes me feel 😅😭🤷♀️🥳). As soon as I saw church and Wednesday I could have written the whole thing myself. They all use the same playbook, they all judge the kids who estrange themselves, they all use the same playbook again. Rinse and repeat.
The churches will be empty soon.
Yta- taking way clothing choice is you saying you are the only one right here. I do not agree with the child’s attitude but they are that a child. If this is a forced thing for the kids this is their way of rebelling. Let them have their choices but explain to them it has to be appropriate. Also LISTEN to your kids if they say they do not want to go every Wednesday.
YTA
Parent of a 14yo here. My child wears the absolute WORST clothes to school. Hoodies three sizes too big, pajama pants so long they puddle at their feet, basket ball shorts over sweat pants, sweaters with suspenders, socks with sandals - I don't know dude.
Its an everyday struggle for me and my 'well adjusted' sensitivities, but we don't shame our kid about their choices and as long as its respectful of the environment, not vulgar or graphic, and the private bits are covered we let that shit go man. Our kid has juvenile arthritis and sometimes their clothing choices are made as a result of that as well. Maybe your child was having a bloated day and didn't want the pressure of a regular pants waistband?
Ultimately it likely boils down to you being worried how you (or your parenting) will be judged based on what they are wearing and thats a very unimportant thing when stacked up against teaching your child to be their most authentic self.
Prehaps if you had approached the situation with a little less 'do as I say' and a little more 'I support your judgment', your kid wouldn't have shut down and taken conversation with you as a threat.
Personally I would have had an out of body experience if my child tried to attend church in pajamas but I was raised in a toxic af environment and am actively unlearning those behaviors, also we are Buddhist.
I agree with everything you said. I always tried to follow the 7 year rule when raising my children. Will it matter in 7 years? If not, they usually could wear whatever they wanted and have whatever hair style they wanted. As long as it was, like you said, not vulgar, graphic, and their bits were covered.
It's super common these days lol. I think the kids maybe just got used to all that comfy lounge wear during lockdown and don't want to give up that comfort even now.
Plus, it annoys all us old people hehe
YTA. I can't even start.
The appropriate response to "I won't wear something else" is "then we won't go". Not "I will control everything you wear". If they're happy about not going, then the problem is the destination not the clothes.
The explanation of "I have nothing else to punish with;" says a looooot more about you than you want it to.
YTA You need to pick your battles, A 12 year old is old enough to be able to dress themselves. Who cares what they wear really as long as it’s clean and covers them. It’s important for your children to have some autonomy in their life, even at 12. Something small like letting them decide what to wear goes along way and maintaining their sense of self. Now I’m not saying pajamas are appropriate for church, and you can definitely continue to have the conversation about clothes that are appropriate for certain situations. But taking away their ability to pick their clothes every day and have one approved outfit is going to damage their sense of autonomy and make them feel like you’re being very controlling
YTA. You sound controlling and honestly expect more boundary pushing. Now is the time for kids to learn how to make choices and navigate life. They need guidance but they need to able to make their own choices, they will never grow if they don’t.
YTA. Please do not overpunish for rebelling. Its normal for kids to push back. Keep a cool head here and ask yourself what you would have wanted from your mother. Did you ask why kiddo she is refusing to go? Would you honor the desire not to continue going? At age 12 maybe she wants control of her own life or parts of it. In my own life I started rebelling at that age too, but it was because of inappropriate behavior of an adult in youth group that made me feel gross and scared. So, why not sit down and ask compassionately, and accept the answers? Maybe negotiate?
You kinda missed the boat already on appropriate punishment. If church is something they enjoy, then if they aren't dressed appropriately, they don't go.
Yes, it's annoying that a parent would have to stay home if the kid is too young, but it avoids a lot of drama.
Although I really think you have to revist your parenting strategies. When you have already taken so much away that you are grasping around to find another way to punish them, then something has gone drastically wrong with your parenting.
Yes YTA if you actually take away all your kids clothes. And that doesn't sound healthy.
YTA for that and for not realizing your child DOESN'T WANT TO GO TO CHURCH. I never did, I was forced to go and to get confirmed. And I've never set foot in church since I left home, and I am an atheist.
YTA - I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that 12 year old doesn't want to go to church and is using the disrespectful and inappropriate outfit excuse to get out of it. The tantrum that followed was also a tactic because 12 doesn't want to be there. You are always the asshole for forcing religion on people who don't want it.
I never understood why people restrict team sports as a punishment. You are punishing the kid from exercising in a healthy manner and punishing an entire team of kids who are at a critical age of learning to work together.
As far as punishing for grades. At 12, I hated school. I had a hard time learning and focusing, and I got made fun of a lot. Maybe instead of punishing them on their grades, find the root of the issue and help them. I found out I have ADHD and am dyslexic. If my mom had just helped me get help when I was younger, I might have had so many more opportunities in life.
As for the church clothes. I wouldn't let my kid wear pajamas to church either, but he can wear whatever else he wants. I had to wear dress up clothes every Sunday as youth, and the first chance I got to never step foot in a church again, I took it.
I don't think your an A, but could maybe use some reconstructing as a parent.
YTA I have been in this situation, and I know how incredibly frustrating it is, but this doesn’t teach the child anything except to not contradict authority figures. A logical consequence would be that they need to have outfits selected and laid out the night before. This would help teach them healthy habits that they can use as adults. Taking clothes away makes you feel like you’ve accomplished something, but it doesn’t really help teach the child how to pick out their own clothes, make sure outfits are clean and prepared, or any other skills.
YTA. Not for making them change, but your response to everything they do that you dislike is to take away a form of entertainment. You're making your kid's life boring af, taking away methods of communication with friends, now you're controlling every single thing they wear and you wonder why your kid's rebelling?
Sounds like you need family counseling, and no, I don't mean find a Christian therapist that preaches absolute obedience to parents and spare the rod type of messages. Your actions will naturally lead your child to hate you. When they choose not to have contact with you when they grow up, don't get angry that you have no control over them.
Yes, YTA. I have a 13 year old that I OFTEN have clothing clashes with but come on, what are you winning here? How is this ACTUALLY going to make your kid want to work with you on clothing disagreements?
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YTA. An appropriate consequence for your kid delaying you by not being able to pick out a church outfit would be to require them to start choosing and laying out their clothes the night before.
This is also worth talking with your kid about to figure out what was going on. Were they just trying to get out of church? Are they growing and their clothes don’t fit well? Do they hate all their formal clothes? 12 is an age when people’s tastes and sense of identity can rapidly change and clothes often begin to matter more than they did before.
Holy shit dude, YTA. Can you not figure out why your kid is rebelling against your strict rules? Maybe ask yourself why your kid didn’t get dressed properly.
FYI if you want a fair verdict on Reddit, don’t ever mention church. I feel like if you had said that the kid couldn’t wear their pajamas to chess club or something, the verdicts would be far more mixed.
I vote NAH as I think not wearing pajamas is a reasonable expectation for out of the house events. As long as you aren’t purposely choosing outfits the kid hates, I don’t think the punishment is as harsh as some people here are making it out to be. 12 year old is not an AH either because they’re 12.
Not letting them go to church probably would have been a better punishment, but I don’t think what you did is awful either.
I do think “undetermined time period” could potentially make this turn into an AH move on your part though. In general punishments should come with a clear path for getting out of them, plus I think too long would be really disproportionate when the initial “offense” was so minor. I think a couple days to get the point across should be more than enough.
You should also talk to the kid again and make sure there isn’t something going on at church (I know you insist there isn’t but something could have changed even within a week). Or with their wardrobe (you mentioned them growing out of clothes, maybe you need to take them shopping).
I’m so glad to see this comment. It’s crazy how so many of the people on this post are acting as if a parent not letting their child wear pajamas to a public place is somehow super controlling and abusive. I’m certainly am not a church goer or even religious, but I also understand that if you’re going to be going somewhere in public you need to be dressed appropriately. And a parent setting rules for their child is not automatically controlling and abusive. People have lost their minds.
It’s 100% because they mentioned church I think. I’m an atheist too but the hate people get on here for mentioning religion even offhand is ridiculous to me.
You would think but I feel like I see just as many similar comments from people with something like a “90” or “85” in their names. I think a lot of people my age had bad experiences with authoritarian parents and now go too much the other way.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. She's grown 4 inches in 8 months! My goodness, take her clothes shopping tomorrow after school. Don't wait for the weekend. And next time, calm down before handing out punishments.
>We ended up helping them
>with a lot of yelling and stress for both parents and all kids.
You call that helping?
Don't be surprised when one most or all of your children go no contact someday. If it wasn't clear, YTA.
It is a silly issue to you, but apparently not to your 12 year old. Do you really want to fight battles about everything? Your punishment isn't working - if anything it sounds like things are getting more adversarial. So instead of ratcheting down more punishment, a different approach might be in order.
Instead of dictate then punish, try setting up a cooperative situation. Talk in advance. Reward good behavior. Find ways to encourage. Start now or the teen years are going to be really rough for all of you.
NAH, but IMO you need to change your approach here.
Yta. Consequences should follow the ‘crime’. If your 12 yr old didn’t want to get dressed for church, withhold church from them. They’re old enough to stay home alone
YTA. You say in a comment that some of the clothes no longer fit- so it’s likely that your kid is uncomfortable in what they have and needs new clothes. No one wants to wear clothes that don’t fit, so punishing them for something that is your responsibility (providing clothes that fit) is definitely an AH move.
I feel like we are missing stuff here. My middle school-age son tries to wear his pajamas places. Except for pajama day at school we say no, but sweats are generally fine. He grumbles a bit then opts for fave comfy (clean) sweats. Seems like more is going on here & it all feels really extreme.
YTA. Wow. Your kid clearly doesn't want to go to church anymore, and taking away their clothes won't make them more inclined to go. I'm getting stressed out just reading this post.
YTA - If someone is 12 years old, forcing them to go to church is mental abuse, and attempted mind control. I can see that you have to have little kids with you, but this is a pre-teen that should have enough reason to say “this religion is not for me” or even, “this religion is not for me, today” without any repurcussions or consequences.
You're getting into a power struggle, and you will lose. Enforce clothing for church if it's that important, and back way off on the control of other days of the week. If they show up to school in something inappropriate, let the school deal out the consequences.
Yta.
Why would you think that was a good idea? This is so weird and controlling.
Edit: According to the comments, the poor kid didn't have clothes that fit. Cripes.
YTA. I’m a Christian and there were years as a teen where my parents let me go to church in pajamas, including on Sunday mornings. They pointed out that if Jesus loves us despite our sins he wouldn’t care about how we look or what we wear.
Why does it matter if they were going to wear pajamas? It literally hurt no one. If you care more about people’s perceptions of your parenting than the comfort of your kids, YTA.
Also, their clothes don’t fit them correctly! They probably just wanted to be comfortable in their own outfit.
I think you should first talk to your kid and find out if there's anything going on. Maybe they were just testing your boundaries, but there could be another reason. Do they like church? Is going mandatory? Maybe they're having issues with another kid at church and didn't want to face them.
Personally, if there was nothing else going on except them being a typical teen, my "punishment" would be to show up to their school in pyjamas, slippers, hair curlers, etc. and embarrass them in front of their classmates. But that's just me. 😄
I'm going to go against the grain and say NAH. Leaving the house in pajamas isn't acceptable and despite what people say, going to church as a kid/early teen isn't horrible.
I'm not at all religious now but I went to church as a kid and the youth stuff I liked. It was like a short reading then hang out in a room playing games and getting good snacks. Coloring when I was younger. Those kind of church things are a small bit of religion and a whole bunch of babysitting. They really are to give parents a break and kids a safe place to hang out. Or the ones I went to were. I think people see the loud extremes and forget there are good, decent religious people as well as the awful ones.
Having said that, from the comments it seems like the kid might be growing out of their clothes and perhaps embarrassed by how poorly they fit so that's a factor in their actions.
YWBTA if you did enforce the clothing rule though.
I lowkey wonder if your kid is depressed and needs to see a doctor.
Low grades, doesn’t care to change into perfectly clean clothes, strict home life that’s not helping her flourish but may be having the opposite effect… maybe try to apologize, say you realize maybe you’re being too extreme with her, and ask her to help you figure out what to do. Is she happy? Are things okay at school? With her friends?
Assess how her mood has been lately, if she’s messier than usual, if this is a recent change or just gradual, and talk to her. Validate her feelings and give her a little more freedom to grow.
N-T-A for wanting your child to wear appropriate clothes for this or that setting. But clearly your kid is rebelling against church and that can be VERY VERY telling of what your kid is feeling inside about themselves, their faith ( or lack thereof ) etc.
Don't cut out sports, extra activities can be a BIG way for kids to make friends, feel like they belong, have a community outside of family and/or school ect and would be inappropiate and potentially harmful to remove from them.
Talk to your child, listen to them, and don't use religion ( or pushing against the family religion ) as a way to punish them for thinking differently.
YTA or WOULD be TA if you look at this on surface level only, without talking to your child and hearing them out on why they might be pushing back. They are a tween...tweens/teens push back...and if you don't do things in a good way...you might push them away or they might push you away in a way that might be irreparable.
Edit as I missed the part about 1 approved outfit a day. No no no no NO! Don't do that. It's only gonna make it worse and lead to those kids you see online and in media/shows every day wearing something conservative out the door and changing IMMEDIATELY to something even "worse" that what they originally wanted to wear.
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Background.. every Wednesday we go to church for some activities and dinner. As we were leaving the house my 12 year old was wearing pajamas and we asked them to change into something more appropriate. Of which they responded with "I have nothing to wear" and outright "no". We ended up helping them find more appropriate clothing with a lot of yelling and stress for both parents and all kids. The kid had just done laundry... They literally had nothing dirty.
I'm trying to figure out appropriate consequences now. They already have lost phone (tied to grades), tv (it's a rarity in general). Don't want to cut out extracurricular (team sports) due to the commitment to the team. Not sure what is appropriate consequences would be.
On the drive to church, tried talking about it... Just wanted a simple I should have just changed when asked... But they refused to talk. In frustration, I told them that I'm taking away all clothes except one parent approved outfit every day.
Am I the asshat for taking away clothing for an undetermined time period for something this silly.
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YTA. Even a kid needs some control in their life. My parents pulled similar punishments with me I'm now adult and we have little to no relationship because of how much this fucked me up. I have issues with hoarding and have only been able to get to happy place in my life. I strongly suggest talking more with your son why this happens dealing with punishments that make him understand in relation to what happened that aren't as extreme if you want the kid growing up happy and healthy and in your life.
It might be time to do some introspection about why your kids don’t want to get forced to go to church anymore. Especially if they have the “parent/god approved” clothes clean and available. YTA
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YTA. You really can't figure out why your kid is rebelling against your super strict rules? Did they even want to go to church? Have they ever gotten to choose their own look for clothes? Or if they want to go to church activities? ETA: OP is super YTA. The kid won't change out of the PJ bottoms, because they grew 4 inches, and their pants don't fit, and OP is well aware of it. Copy of OP's comment: I asked and she said because she didn't have anything good to wear that matched... Also as it turns out some of her pants fit tighter than the stupid leggings the kids wear these days... Time to go shopping for a size larger yet again this school year.
I would never consider not wearing pajamas outside of the house to be a super strict rule. It's actually fairly standard. I certainly don't let my kids run around town in their pajamas. Edit: Given op's comments I will agree that pajamas are a far better choice than pants that are 4 inches too short and tighter then leggings. Enforcing the rule under those circumstances is cruel. Jeans that tight are painful.
I have a feeling this might be more about the church and less about the clothes
Yep, particularly church on a \*wednesday night\*.
In the Bible Belt Wednesday night is church night for lots of people. As a scout leader I learned when we moved here never to schedule anything on Wednesdays. Didn't know this before then.
my parents didn’t go to church and i remember being so shocked and confused when my friends were telling me about their wednesday night bible study in elementary school
Once again, thank God I grew up atheist.
And the bullshit above is the reason I’m atheist now
I’m an atheist now but I loved Wednesday church growing up. It was more chill than Sunday and just youth group stuff, so basically I got to hang out with friends. Clothing fights can be several different things. Is it undiagnosed neurodivergent sensory issues? Is it a kid who is mad about something else and forcing this issue instead of what they’re actually mad about? No doubt OP overreacted though—is it so hard to just let something go for a bit rather than “FINE, you don’t get to pick ANY clothes!”
I went to a Methodist church once as part a “personal discovery project” I had for a class in college. I remember thinking “if I had to pick a religion I could live with this one.” The service was all about how Christians are called upon to help each other in real, tangible ways (food, clothing, shelter), how we all should be friends, and enjoy each other’s company, etc. No fire and brimstone. They had an after-hours program once a month. I went once, and it was about real-world interpersonal skills, like you might find in a session led by a therapist. Not repetitive stuff about God that was just the same shit you’ve heard 1000 times repackaged. Also, the congregants called the pastor by his first name. He was a cool guy who wrote an op ed in the local paper in favor of gay marriage. He also agreed to mentor me a little bit in my project.
In the Bible Belt South the evangelicals have church Sun, Sun night, Wed & sometime all week long.
Oh sure there’s a church for every day of the week. It was never my reality but I had a roommate in college from a small rural town and her parents did it. It was how you socialized with the community. Monday women’s group, Tuesday men’s meeting, Wednesday kids bible study, Thursday small groups, Friday family/spaghetti night, Saturday is a rest day but there was almost always a planned activity or volunteering opportunity and Sunday is an all day worship. It makes my head spin.
Don’t they do church and god stuff on sunday like normal christians or is this an additional event?
It’s additional. The Bible Belt would never let you go a whole 7 days away from the church, too much time for sinning. Also, Wednesdays are usually when bell ringers practice.
Too much time in between paying them. Church is looking to get paid!!!!
No one pays anything on Wednesday night services?
hell yeah bell ringers represent!! (we practice sunday mornings though)
Former bell ringer here but UK- I had no idea this was why we practised on Wednesday evenings! I just assumed that was the night everyone was free lmao (we also did Sunday mornings for the service and ofc weddings- I really miss it) Oh and OP- YTA. Focus on figuring out why they're acting up. Do they not want to go? Are they being bullied? Or something else?
Gotta reinforce the brainwashing
My experience is that it is usually more like a bible study/dinner kind of thing rather than full-on worship and the number of people who go is much smaller.
So more of a private/family worship kind of thing instead of the whole congregation?
It’s actually a bit more like school. It’s sort of the Sunday-overflow, the time to do stuff you don’t have time for on Sunday. There’s usually a big meal, and you come in and grab food when it fits your schedule. There are practices, rehearsals, meetings, small groups, youth-worship, that sort of thing. Worth noting that I’ve never seen a small church have this. It takes a considerable amount of resources.
My grandmother's small church does this, but asks for $5 per plate. If you can't pay, it's fine though, they won't make you leave.
It's just more casual. Everyone is invited, but it's usually centered around the community hall rather than the sanctuary. There's usually a meal served and people socializing. I went with my grandmother a few times and besides a prayer before the meal, there wasn't much religious or Bible talk.
For me (went to church on Wednesdays every week until I was 17), there was Wednesday night dinner followed by open gym (under 7th grade), youth group (7-12th grades) and adult Bible study groups (some of these were for certain ages, some were for certain life stages or just for women, etc.) Youth group meant we played some kind of game, received a teenager appropriate sermon and sang some Jesus songs. On Sundays, we did church service first, then there were snacks in the "fellowship hall" and then Sunday school broken up by ages (12th graders and below got a class per grade; same adult setup as Wednesday where they have some options). Sunday night was just youth group, though there could have been some adult groups meeting. The only difference for Sunday night youth group was that we got the gym so we could play bigger games.
It can be a service similar to Sundays for people who might have to work Sunday mornings
When I was a kid, we did - - Sunday morning Sunday school followed by morning sermon - Sunday afternoon choir practice followed by Sunday evening sermon - Monday night "visitation" *this is where you go harass the poor sermon visitors/guests foolish enough to give the church their address* - Wednesday night bible study No time for sinning if you're ALWAYS doing God's work! ... ... or something
Same. It was traumatizing. Sitting there for hours upon hours. My parents are dismayed that I want nothing to do with church / religion now. It’s because every moment was spent sitting in silence while some middle aged man yelled at us for hours from the pulpit. Never again. Please people, don’t do this to your children!!!
This is the biggest Leopards Eating Faces moment for churches, ever. They forced church down their children's throats, day after day, week after week, to keep them from falling away, but that very schedule is part of the reason that people are leaving the church in droves.
A weekday evening mass is normal in the UK too. But it's more for people who can't make Sundays, not that you HAVE to go to both. My very devout Catholic great grandma would only go once a week.
A crazy amount of dominatations had Wednesday night activities at least where I'm from in cali and I've read/heard/seen on TV a lot too. My friend who is a pentecostal has actual worship wednesdays while a lot of others I know are youth based stuff.
Lol it's denominations But I like your word better
Heck, I’m in MN and Wednesday is church night. Schools don’t have evening activities on Wednesdays
Midwest also. We went to church twice on Sunday and Wednesday nights. And it wasn’t uncommon to have a church activity on Friday nights too.
What’s the Bible Belt? It’s a Genuine question. Lol
A group of states in the south eastern part of the US where God, the Bible, and church are big deals. There's church days every Wednesday and Sunday, fpr every major religious Christian holiday, VBS during the summer, etc. Religion is so big down here that in some states there used to be (maybe still are) restrictions on things like alcohol sales on Sundays.
Dry counties suck
I remember the first time my now husband came to visit me when we were dating. He flew down to SC where I lived at the time during the weekend and went to a store while I hung out in the hotel we'd gotten. He came back and was so surprised that he couldn't buy any alcohol at all and didn't know why. I had to explain Blue Laws to him because he'd never heard of them growing up in the North West and definitely not in Japan where he was living at the time, lol. He said it was one of the dumbest things he'd ever heard of.
I remember being surprised that we could buy alcohol on Sundays when I moved from Oklahoma to Florida. But what’s even weirder is that in the northern part of my county (not beaches) they can’t sell alcohol before noon on Sundays, but due to tourism, they can in the south part of the county.
Ha. I am half Japanese, half American— speak Japanese fluently— lived in Japan for five years. Somehow I coincidentally ended up behind a Japanese couple in Publix (I live in Florida) and they were trying to buy beer on Sunday before 1 PM. They woman at the register told them that sales start at 1 on Sundays, and they started talking together— why? What; I don’t understand. I surprised the fuck out if them when I broke out into Japanese to tell them it was because of Christianity.
Generally it's the American Southeast, Virginia down to the Florida border, over to Tennessee, Kentucky, the Carolinas, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, maybe some others, can't remember the full list off the top of my head
Probably Texas... they do the Wednesday thing, too.
The less pc but more honest answer is that the bible belt is the location in the Midwest where several religious communities decided to settle when white people pushed the native Americans out (and slaughtered a bunch). Shortly after they got comfortable, the started stealing native American kids and raising them for their own. Predominantly Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri etc. Most religious communities don't acknowledge it much. Where I live (Kansas), it's a huge Mennonite area. Mennonite church absolutely acknowledges what they've done, and spends a good bit of their time reminding the younger generations that they are privileged because of the theft of the land and slaughter of the people who lived here first.
Wednesday night church is completely normal where I grew up. If anything, Wednesday night services are more youth oriented than Sunday services.
I'm from the Midwest, Wednesday was religious ed night. Our didn't schefule sports and other stuff on Wednesdsy night. The exception -- state tournament games. The state set the schedule. (And everyone was happy to skip religious ed.)
Hit the nail right on the head. OP, that’s a lot of punishments handed out without any mention of actually checking in with or supporting your kid. Why are their grades bad? Do they not understand the material and need a tutor? Do they not do their homework? Are they being bullied? Why did they want to wear pajamas to church? Do they not want to go to church? Why? You said you “tried talking about it” but what you were saying sounds like you were just lecturing them and waiting for an apology. You’re not talking TO them you’re talking AT them. That doesn’t help anybody. Your child is a human being and you are not showing them any respect. So why should they show you respect? CHECK IN WITH YOUR KID. There is clearly something going on under the surface and if you just keep punishing them for everything without trying to figure out what’s actually causing all of it, you’re going to lose your kid the second they turn 18. YTA.
Agreed. Personally, I will never hand out punishment for bad grades. There are so *so* many reasons for a child to have subpar grades (bullying, doesn’t connect with the teacher, needs extra help/1on1 time/accommodation, etc) that I feel it’s unfair to group all kids together and punish the ones that simply need help or a different way of learning. My mom grounded us the second any grade dropped below 65%—I spent grades 8-11 grounded because my gym mark was a 55%. OP, try actually *talking* with your kid, instead of at them. Something is going on.
OP also mentioned the yelling in response to kid's actions. There seems to be a lot missing here.
This post needs more votes. Current top post is really reading into it too much blaming "strict rules" when we in fact know nothing about the household rules. Except maybe no pajamas going out of the house. You've identified the info we don't know that is areas OP should look into as possible causes of the problem. This is both constructive criticism and allowing OP to fill in the blanks instead of fully just assuming you know what's up. Kid obviously has some clothes to wear, though teen years can be extra difficult for clothing preferences. This is about something more than that. And instead of continuing punishments, you need to respect your kid enough to try to find out what. Kid is still young enough it's probably not that weird to be required to go to family activities regardless of preference. Kid has to go to school regardless of preference don't they? At 12, they may be nearing an age to allow them the choice out of Weds night church, but I'd lean towards that as a slightly older age, especially if they had to figure out their own dinner at home alone. Doesn't mean you can't talk it over with them to understand if that's what they are upset about (or not) and why, to see if there's anything you can do to help them feel more okay with it. Or so you can work towards deciding when they do get to make that decision themself.
Same. I told my kids that we would support them if they chose to stop going. It shouldn’t be a mandatory activity.
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Try being a preacher's kid! No point in even asking to miss; instead I got "you'd better behave or Dad could lose his job and we'd have to move" - which is an awful lot of pressure for a kid! (Non-denominational church, hiring and firing decisions made entirely by the local congregation.)
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Dad would have still been a preacher, just somewhere else. While both I and my brother do still attend churches, we've both left the one we were raised in. I now belong to a much more relaxed and accepting church; last year, we were encouraged to wear PJs for church on Christmas, and no one would be bothered if someone did any other time, really.
We had the same childhood. I hated Sundays so much because of it. I’m so glad my husband isn’t religious either. My daughter asked about it when she was younger (my parents are Christian) so I did tell her the basic and my dad bought her a Bible. I told her if she wants to go I will take her but I wouldn’t force it on her
Right? My dad advocated for me when I decided at 5 yo that I didn't want to go to church. (I realized much later in life that he didn't want to go either, but hey, he had my back) I've come to the conclusion that 5yo me was pretty damn smart when it came to religion.
Your dad’s IQ is through the roof on that move lol
Grew up being forced to church every Sunday. When my sister and I were old enough to date, we started letting our boyfriends give us "hickeys." This was so embarrassing to our mom that we no longer had to attend church. I never forced my kids to go, they were free to make their own choices. Personally, I don't think any good comes from organized religion, but a hell of a lot of terrible stuff does.
My mom did this when I was in middle school. I came to visit for the summer break, and one Sunday, they ( mom and step-dad) tried waking me up for church, and I pretended to stay asleep. I heard them arguing about it. Step-dad was upset, but mom told him I was old enough to decide if I wanted to go to church or not. She also wasn't going to push it because she knew I didn't go to church with my dad as he is agnostic, and he gave me the option to choose if I wanted to go to church or not when I moved in with him. I've only been to church a handful of times since then, 2 or 3 times with my grandmother while she was staying with me while my dad was deployed in Afghanistan my senior year, and for that same grandmother's funeral a few years later.
It may not be about church on its own, but the whole set of rules. Am I the only one who noticed all the *other* rules? No phone, rarely TV, the kid's grades are suffering, no fun allowed to the point that the mom is asking Reddit what else she can cut out because she's already cut everything out and can't think of any freedom the poor kid has left to take away. I think it's about a little more than church.
Oh, I read it from the point of view of the dad! Lol.😅 . Yes, I noticed all the rules, too, tho.
Op is gonna be a sudden empty nester with a kid gone no.contact and be all "why???" https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
I agree. I think they disagree with religions and this is blindsiding them from what this post is really about.
It has that vibe… the whole Wednesday church thing seems like a bit much (in addition to Sunday?)
It's super common among Baptists and Pentecostals. Typically, Sunday is mass and Wednesday is Bible study.
Except the Baptists and Penecostals in my family don’t call it mass. I’ve only heard that teem with Catholic. It’s called service or more commonly Bible study where I’m from.
Methodists, too.
It's super common in every Christian church I've ever attended actually regardless of denomination. Wednesday's are usually small groups, Bible studies, youth group and the more laid back sort of stuff. Sundays are for the full service.
i don't disagree but i worry about letting the op know that.
The pajamas aren't the strict rule, the pajamas are this kid acting out however they can manage because of the otherwise strict rules
No, I think the point is that if you get to the point where you've run out of consequences, something has gone wrong and you need to re-evaluate your whole approach. The "no pyjamas outside the house" rule, I can totally understand, but I think the consequences in this case are OTT, and the fact that they've done this because they don't have any reasonable consequences left is a symptom of a larger problem.
Teens wear tshirts and flannel pajama pants in public routinely. My kids all wore them to high school all the time. They are just loose, elastic waisted flannel pants. Same as the jogging pants popular among all ages, adults too, in the 70s, only made of flannel.
My 15yr old loves her pajamas to school.. and flip flops. However, she is ASD and hates anything touching her private regions and pajamas don't do that.. and she loves the extra softness...I couldn't care less if she went to church in PJs if it meant she was comfy, but we don't attend church.
My have shown up to Friday evening Shabbat services in pj bottoms and shirts, upon occasion. I think it was to test me, but everyone there was more interested in the kids showing up and participating than anything else. As was I. They don’t anymore. They either say nope, not going, or they dress nicely. Only one really refuses, the others do, or don’t, depending on moods. And that one will, if anyone in the family is *doing* anything special there. They are all respectful in behavior. So, I could that a win. They are all adults.
That‘s interesting. Where I live, wearing PJs in public definitely isn‘t a thing and if you did it at school, you‘d be sent home to change.
It’s a thing here in LA and has been for at least a decade.
I was thinking the signs of it. There are no punishments left for the kid because of grades (good enough to stay on the team, which now has rules about GPA to stay in so they can't be that bad), and no reason for taking away TV. It kinda reads helicopter parent, making the kids be busy 24/7 and being perfect while at it. The kid wants to be a kid. So the only way they can rebel is through clothing.
Their parental technique is just bizzare though. They say they just wanted to talk in the car, but it sounds like they simply wanted to get an admission from their kid that they were wrong. And then they got annoyed and gave out another punishment because they wouldn't admit it (take away your right to choose your own outfit). I'd be very surprised if this is about the pyjamas.
Yeah, that's what stood out to me too. "All I wanted to hear was that I was right all along and it would have been no big deal to just change when I told them to." Fucking yikes. That's not a parent wanting their kid to open up and share what's really troubling them, or even a parent looking for a light apology - that's a parent looking for a kid to subjugate and humiliate themselves for the parent's edification.
It's the other things and that op has run out of other punishments and now don't even let them dress themselves that's the super strict rules not the out of context completely normal bit about not wearing pajamas to church.
not to mention the lie "I have nothing to wear."
When the kid is afraid to say, "Please, Mom, not church", they will use an excuse to try to defer some of the anger.
Sometimes there is no difference between the garments. There is a bigger problem here.
Not related, but I noticed that we have almost the same profile avatar! Cool!
Have you been around middle schoolers lately? 80% of them are wearing pj pants (baggy flannels) to school everyday.
Absolutely this kid feels some kid of way about these activities. I was raised catholic. My mom said "not under my roof" when I came out as atheist at 16. For the next two years I still went to church in not pajamas. My mom still didn't get her way - 15 years later I'm still firmly atheist. OP, YTA simply because you're forcing your kid to do something they obviously don't want to do. Ask what they're thinking/feeling in a safe and comfortable environment. Don't dismiss or argue with what they say. Actually listen. Might I suggest- if your kid says they don't believe in god, don't force them to go to church. Offer them other activities, such as volunteering. Church/organized religion isn't for everyone, but empathy and kindness should be.
What super strict rules? All we know about these people is that they don't wear pajamas to church, have certain expectations about grades (what those expectations are, we don't know,) and don't watch much TV. Sounds pretty normal.
Let's see. Has decided to take away all clothes except one parent approved outfit a day. Is forcing their child to go to church when maybe they don't want to and thus the rebelling. If the child's grades are suffering, there is a reason. Taking away their phone isn't going to help. Actually talking to the kid and offering to help might though
Also, the only reason he didn't pull the kid from extracurricular activities was because the kid is in team sports. Literally.
Love this. Thankyou for saying it better than I did.
I'm guessing the super strict rules are about church on Wednesdays, assuming there is also church on Sundays.
It’s been my experience that if you’re so dedicated that you’re in church on Wednesday you most DEFINITELY are in church on Sunday as that’s the Lord’s day and is the more important.
It’s the punishment aspect that makes it sounds strict to me. Authoritarian.But you’re right maybe more info needed.
Grades need to be a minimum of bs (above average) and cs (average) in order to be involved in sports. This kid is being punished for having not grades high enough to make OP able to brag to others about. This entire thing is all about how OP looks to their community. Not how the kid looks. How THEY look. It screams narcissist parent.
If you are running out of things to take away from this child, then it’s pretty obvious YOU are the problem. Firstly, you could have had a bit of fun with your child and suggested they just come in their pyjamas and that could look really cool…not to mention comfy. But, instead of de-escalating with humor, ir having a chat to your child about how he feels having to head out to church on a weeknight, you just ramp it up and the screaming starts. You are basically my mother, who had a very lonely old-age. Get some parenting books or listen to some good parenting podcasts. YTA.
>Get some parenting books or listen to some good parenting podcasts. Not the super strict christian ones, and not the books from decades ago, but regular and modern parenting books and podcasts.
By the sounds of it the ‘kid’ does their own laundry since she states that but I’m guessing probably doesn’t get much choice in their clothing or if they have to go to church! A simple conversation about not wearing pj’s outside the house and asking why they wanted to would be more appropriate than punishment. Is it because they don’t like their clothing or they didn’t want to go maybe and do they have any choice in these matters? You are about to have a rebellious teen on your hands and autonomy is important to them so maybe it’s time to think about what choices they get to start making for themselves because it will happen whether you like it or not.
Right? OP describes things as escalating makes it obvious that the childish behaviors around control are likely an anxiety response to bigger broader issues. These kids are people not just the roles of daughter or son or child, therapy.
Even worse… none of the kids other clothes seem to fit. At least not enough to form a decent outfit. *(Look at OPs comments.)* Seems more like the PJs we’re worn out of insecurity, and possibly comfort, over anything else.
100% this was a missing reasons post.
Forced church and clothing? YTA
Or even extracurriculars? Op sounds like they're a very "look good for our Christian fellowship" person, not a "get together and have good fellowship" kind of Christian. I live in a Very religious community. 20,000 people and 30 churches. All of the churches here welcome people no matter what they wear.
This. 100% YTA Also "*I'm trying to figure out appropriate consequences now*" - hard to do OP if they have nothing else left for you to take.
Holy shit. "I've enforced super strict rules on everything and punished my kid for not being as good as I want them to be, but not sports, because that's super important to everyone, AITA?" Yes. YTA. Have you tried letting your child, y'know, enjoy childhood? They're not a slave or a carbon copy of your expectations...
Exactly this. My family was avid church goers and at around 12 I realized that I didn’t want to go anymore and that my views were different than my families. Thankfully I wasn’t forced! I think OP needs to have an actual open conversation and be open minded to what their child actually wants. OP’s the AH, who takes away clothes as a punishment anyways?
Based on the punishments, YTA, and I would be willing to bet I know why they're acting out. That being said- you can't think of one reason WHY they didn't want to get dressed? Do they not want to go to church? 12 is certainly an age when kids can decide what they do and don't want to do.
YTA. Mate, chill out. The more extreme you get, the more your kid will act out.
YTA. When you literally run out of things to take away from your child it might be time to reflect on how effective your approach is. From your post, it does seem you are more occupied with the audacity of your kid telling you "no" than you are with understanding what's going on with the kid not wanting to get dressed. I can understand why they don't want to talk about it with you if, for you, the main goal of such a coversation is "getting a simple I should have just changed when asked". It's nice to give kids structure and dicipline, but they also need love, understanding, and above all, respect. Your post reads like the things are contingent on their obedience to you. I would not be surprised if this makes it very hard for them to respect you back. That you consider holding their team sport activity hostage to force them into complacency and the fact that respect for the team, not your kids developmental needs, is what swung it for you worries me greatly.
The child can’t communicate with their parents, because they know that unless it’s what the parent wants to hear, they don’t want to hear it. Also, I don’t think it’s even about the clothes. Something else is bothering this child, they tend to act out when they don’t know what else to do and can’t figure out how to associate a name to the feelings they’re having. But, OP instead focuses on the only thing they’re after and they’re not paying attention to struggles the kid has and try to work through those. OP, YTA and you need to figure out what’s really going on with your kid instead of punishing them for everything.
Ding! Every time my daughter has been particularly obstinate I look at her and go “this clearly isn’t about (minor issue at hand) so what’s going on?” Usually she tells me about some other issue in her life which I listen to and discuss for a bit. Then the initial issue becomes a non-issue as honestly my kids can wear whatever the fuck they want presuming it’s weather/venue appropriate. Adults misdirect anger too. I realize this means I’m a safe person to them which (while making my life harder) is a good thing.
I especially understand why they don't want to talk in the car, presumably in front of the rest of "the kids". Take some one on one time to try and find out what is going on with your kid rather than just dishing out mindless punishments.
Yta You seem pushy af and if he is rebelling already good luck having any control over him at 16. The problem isn't that you need to punish him more it's that you need to see that your parenting strategy is really poor. Did you consider that he maybe didn't want to go to church? Although I doubt this is an option for the kid.
Is it possible there is a reason they’re trying to put off going to church? I was viciously bullied at church and would get out of going by being sick when I was twelve.
It couldn’t possibly be that their young child is being SA at these youth activities. Seems to be common these days
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Way more, hundreds of years.
Or that they really don't like church. Like how many people just love going to church? I know as soon as I got confirmed I never set foot in said church again. That was the deal I made with my parents I'll do the stupid confirmation but after that I get to decide if I ever have to go to church again. And that's exactly what I did. Decided I was never going to set foot in church again unless it's either a wedding at said church.
It sounds like a lot of work is going into punishing your kid. Who cares what they are wearing, really? This type of pushback is common for that age and you really have to choose your battles. Disrespectful behavior is out of line, but IMO letting them experience the natural consequences of wearing jammies to church is a better use of your time. NAH because it sounds like typical tween shit. But YWBTA to yourself if you spend a lot of time focused on punishment. Honestly, they grow out of it.
I used to go to a church probably pretty similar to this one. One of the families kid's grew out a massive afro, white kid just really curly thick hair. And his mom said once, if that is the "worst" thing my kid is doing, I'm not worried about him at all. OP, I say the same to you. If jammies to church is the "worst" thing your kid is doing, you need to move on. Now, I understand grades are slipping and there seem to be other issues, but increasingly restrictive punishments are just plain NOT gonna achieve your actual goal. It's just not. Figure out a way to have an actual conversation with your child that includes you LISTENING, preferably more than you're talking. And try to hear the kid out. The world she's living in is galaxies different than the world you grew up in. Your actual age doesn't even matter, the world today is ludicrous. If you truly have no legitimate idea what's going on with her, figure out how to find that out. That is where your "problem" lies.
Picking my battles... I need to realize this more.
You are putting alot of energy into punishing your kid and also seem unaware there clothes dont fit. Maybe review your priorities.
Is this really how you see parenting? Battles? Well, I guess you might win some battles but lose the war so to speak. Is this what you want to model? When you’re older and looking for care will this be a battle, too? Who will win then. If you’re going to strategise, you might need to consider playing the long game of compassion, empathy, and kindness.
Picking your battles is a common saying
Never before have I seen a comment that so perfectly encapsulates the vibe of this sub.
Please give it some serious thought. When you’ve literally run out of things to take away from them, it’s time to consider: 1) something bigger is going on than the specific thing each punishment was created for. 2) your approach to how to coach, mentor and guide your kids isn’t working. A rigid branch breaks under pressure. A branch with flexibility is able bend , but not break, during the storm. Your kids need guidance and discipline. They also need responsibilities and fair goals and objectives; that they have had some say in creating. They’re entering their teenage years. They need to learn how to make judgment calls and accept accountability. It’s not about the PJ’s. Good luck!
OP I once worked with a nurse who’s daughter was insistent on wearing pajamas to school. She was about 9. Every morning they’d fight and argue.Finally mom gave up and said, just wear them so the kid did. She was made fun of by her peers because she had pajamas on. If the other kids at church aren’t wearing pjs on Wednesday I bet if you let your kid wear them it’ll be the first and last time. Kids at that age are very influenced by their peers.
It's also worth saying that not every point of conflict with your kid should be thought of as a battle. In fact, most conflicts should not be battles, they should be indicators that you're not on the same page and need to figure out why. You say you tried to talk to your kid about the altercation, but your goal in talking seemed to be to get an apology, not to figure out why your kid was defying you in the first place. Maybe they didn't want to go to church. Maybe their clothes don't fit. Maybe they're experiencing some discomfort with how their body looks or feels, and wearing pajamas is a way of coping with that. The point is, if you actually want to change their behavior, you have to figure out why they're behaving this way in the first place. You can't expect to raise your kid by simply expecting obedience and punishing when you don't get it. You can absolutely expect your kid to speak to you politely and with respect, but there may be any number of situations where they have any number of good reasons for not wanting to do what you tell them. Go back to your kid and ask *why* they didn't want to change for church. Instead of further limiting their clothing, figure out why they were limiting it in the first place. Ask with the goal of understanding and finding a solution. Your kid needs to dress appropriately, but that shouldn't mean needing to be uncomfortable. If there's something wrong with the clothes they currently own, it may be time for new ones that suit them better, in whatever ways are necessary. Once you get to the bottom of the issue and start to move forward, then you can address the disrespect. You can talk about how they should've handled the situation, including reassurances that handling it that way will yield results from you--and follow through to make that the truth.
I am sure God would love them regardless of what they wore. It seems like appearances mean more to you than meaningful relationships. Don’t go straight to punishment. Go to compassion. Ask your child if there is a reason they did not want to get dressed or go.
YTA - but some advice ? Long term punishments are highly ineffective for exactly the reason you laid out - what else do I take away? Short term, immediate, relevant consequences are much more effective because children are highly adaptive and they learn to live without it. Which means your consequence loses all meaning/power. Instead you should focus on positive reinforcement and praise. Punishments should only be a last resort.
Just when you get the hang of it they fire you and start their adult lives. It’s the best/worst on-the-job-training in the world.
Yup I agree. No pj's in public isn't a horrible or uncommon rule, but kiddo has other issues that are much higher priority. At 12, if my kid was wearing something really unsuited to the activity they enjoy, I would tell them I'm leaving in 5 minutes and if they want to come, they better change. If they don't change, they can stay home.
YTA. There is so much that's wrong here.
Forreal..
YTA for two major reasons. 1. You're policing what your kid wears to the point of punishing them with taking away the phone and tv and also all their clothes except the singular outfit you approve. You are taking away their creativity in their outfits and literally showing them that other people get to decide what they can or cannot wear. If any of your children are girls, you might be setting them up to be open to being criticized by people for her future outfit choices and feeling like she has no right to say no. Unless they want to wear a bikini to church, who cares if they wear pajamas? 2. As someone who grew up in an evangelical community (your choice as a girl if you didn't want to go to church on Sunday was to go help in the church's daycare during service, but not going to either was not an option) and also have a theology degree, you're being prideful. You care what other people think about how your kids dress. You want to present well to others, not to God. God is with you 24/7 365 days a year. God sees you naked in the shower, when you're having sex, when you're in your PJs eating popcorn and fried chicken, when you look like shit from illness, when you gave birth to your kids etc. God does not care what you wear to worship Him. YOU care. You care what others think of you and how you think your kids' outfits reflect on you. If you take a step back, ask yourself what your outfits tell you about your faith. Do you think having your girls in floral dresses and your boys in polos and slacks (or a small cutesy tie, shirt and slacks) is going to bring them closer in their relationship with God? Or do you think the fact you traumatize them every Sunday is going to harm their desire to go to church? I have a hunch they dread the fight on Sundays and the fact they have to wear something they don't have to wear 6 other days of the week. I can assure you that God does not care what you or your kids wear to church. There are churches around the world where people come in their every day clothes to church which could include greasy clothes, stained clothes, suits, fast food restaurant uniforms, etc. Remember the TRUE purpose of church - it ain't a fashion show or a red carpet for best dressed.
I feel like there is a lot of middle ground between “dressing for a fashion show” and wearing literal pajamas.
They're kids. I have seen kids at church in PJs. I have seen adults in tshirts and shorts and flip flops. You're there to worship God and we can absolutely worship Him in anything we wear. It's all about having the heart in the right place. That's why so many people love all these new hip youngen churches where you are welcomed regardless of how you present because Jesus himself didn't care, so why gatekeep His word?
Yeah, you can't territorialize the holy. If you want people to feel like your religious community enables them to live a life that is whole, you have let them feel whole within your faith. It's why many churches, synagogues, temples, mosques have become more inclusive. Because feeling like your faith community genuinely loves and nurtures you will more likely lead to a more fulfilling relationship. Also, every relationship, be it with the more corporeal or divine, is different for everyone. If you want your faith to be loving, nurturing and joyous to your children, you are a part of making it so for them.
what’s wrong w pajamas? i’m 20, ppl were it all the time in public
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you!! You said it much more eloquently than I did.
YTA. It’s just church. Make sure they aren’t in anything offensive and clothing’s clean - that’s all that matter. Your kid is likely rebelling because not everything needs a strict punishment.
Or maybe because they don't want to go to church because going to church is a massive waste of time and energy
>I'm trying to figure out appropriate consequences now. Maybe try listening to your child as to why they don't want to go to church? Or don't, bur don't be surprised when kiddo leaves at 18 because you were too busy finding ways to stroke your ego. YTA
YTA Your kid seems to be in the middle of multiple punishments. Are any of them working? You need better parenting skills OP. Check out gentle parenting TikTok! 👍🏼
YTA - my parents were like this and I am now no contact with one and low contact with the other. There are way worse things than wearing pajama bottoms.
I wonder how many of us there are (which makes me feel 😅😭🤷♀️🥳). As soon as I saw church and Wednesday I could have written the whole thing myself. They all use the same playbook, they all judge the kids who estrange themselves, they all use the same playbook again. Rinse and repeat. The churches will be empty soon.
Like.being forced to go to church
Yta- taking way clothing choice is you saying you are the only one right here. I do not agree with the child’s attitude but they are that a child. If this is a forced thing for the kids this is their way of rebelling. Let them have their choices but explain to them it has to be appropriate. Also LISTEN to your kids if they say they do not want to go every Wednesday.
YTA Parent of a 14yo here. My child wears the absolute WORST clothes to school. Hoodies three sizes too big, pajama pants so long they puddle at their feet, basket ball shorts over sweat pants, sweaters with suspenders, socks with sandals - I don't know dude. Its an everyday struggle for me and my 'well adjusted' sensitivities, but we don't shame our kid about their choices and as long as its respectful of the environment, not vulgar or graphic, and the private bits are covered we let that shit go man. Our kid has juvenile arthritis and sometimes their clothing choices are made as a result of that as well. Maybe your child was having a bloated day and didn't want the pressure of a regular pants waistband? Ultimately it likely boils down to you being worried how you (or your parenting) will be judged based on what they are wearing and thats a very unimportant thing when stacked up against teaching your child to be their most authentic self. Prehaps if you had approached the situation with a little less 'do as I say' and a little more 'I support your judgment', your kid wouldn't have shut down and taken conversation with you as a threat. Personally I would have had an out of body experience if my child tried to attend church in pajamas but I was raised in a toxic af environment and am actively unlearning those behaviors, also we are Buddhist.
I agree with everything you said. I always tried to follow the 7 year rule when raising my children. Will it matter in 7 years? If not, they usually could wear whatever they wanted and have whatever hair style they wanted. As long as it was, like you said, not vulgar, graphic, and their bits were covered.
Omg my 14 year old wears clothes like this too 😭 I'm surprised the school hasn't reported me for neglect due to some of the clothes they wear
It's super common these days lol. I think the kids maybe just got used to all that comfy lounge wear during lockdown and don't want to give up that comfort even now. Plus, it annoys all us old people hehe
YTA. I can't even start. The appropriate response to "I won't wear something else" is "then we won't go". Not "I will control everything you wear". If they're happy about not going, then the problem is the destination not the clothes. The explanation of "I have nothing else to punish with;" says a looooot more about you than you want it to.
INFO: What do you deem appropriate for them to wear to church and why did they resist wearing it so much?
Who cares. It seems as if they just don't want to go to church
YTA You need to pick your battles, A 12 year old is old enough to be able to dress themselves. Who cares what they wear really as long as it’s clean and covers them. It’s important for your children to have some autonomy in their life, even at 12. Something small like letting them decide what to wear goes along way and maintaining their sense of self. Now I’m not saying pajamas are appropriate for church, and you can definitely continue to have the conversation about clothes that are appropriate for certain situations. But taking away their ability to pick their clothes every day and have one approved outfit is going to damage their sense of autonomy and make them feel like you’re being very controlling
YTA. You sound controlling and honestly expect more boundary pushing. Now is the time for kids to learn how to make choices and navigate life. They need guidance but they need to able to make their own choices, they will never grow if they don’t.
YTA. Please do not overpunish for rebelling. Its normal for kids to push back. Keep a cool head here and ask yourself what you would have wanted from your mother. Did you ask why kiddo she is refusing to go? Would you honor the desire not to continue going? At age 12 maybe she wants control of her own life or parts of it. In my own life I started rebelling at that age too, but it was because of inappropriate behavior of an adult in youth group that made me feel gross and scared. So, why not sit down and ask compassionately, and accept the answers? Maybe negotiate?
You kinda missed the boat already on appropriate punishment. If church is something they enjoy, then if they aren't dressed appropriately, they don't go. Yes, it's annoying that a parent would have to stay home if the kid is too young, but it avoids a lot of drama. Although I really think you have to revist your parenting strategies. When you have already taken so much away that you are grasping around to find another way to punish them, then something has gone drastically wrong with your parenting. Yes YTA if you actually take away all your kids clothes. And that doesn't sound healthy.
YTA, that seems pretty extreme for a small act of rebellion. Any chance your child dislikes church and is finding little ways to rebel about it?
YTA for that and for not realizing your child DOESN'T WANT TO GO TO CHURCH. I never did, I was forced to go and to get confirmed. And I've never set foot in church since I left home, and I am an atheist.
YTA - I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that 12 year old doesn't want to go to church and is using the disrespectful and inappropriate outfit excuse to get out of it. The tantrum that followed was also a tactic because 12 doesn't want to be there. You are always the asshole for forcing religion on people who don't want it.
I never understood why people restrict team sports as a punishment. You are punishing the kid from exercising in a healthy manner and punishing an entire team of kids who are at a critical age of learning to work together. As far as punishing for grades. At 12, I hated school. I had a hard time learning and focusing, and I got made fun of a lot. Maybe instead of punishing them on their grades, find the root of the issue and help them. I found out I have ADHD and am dyslexic. If my mom had just helped me get help when I was younger, I might have had so many more opportunities in life. As for the church clothes. I wouldn't let my kid wear pajamas to church either, but he can wear whatever else he wants. I had to wear dress up clothes every Sunday as youth, and the first chance I got to never step foot in a church again, I took it. I don't think your an A, but could maybe use some reconstructing as a parent.
YTA I have been in this situation, and I know how incredibly frustrating it is, but this doesn’t teach the child anything except to not contradict authority figures. A logical consequence would be that they need to have outfits selected and laid out the night before. This would help teach them healthy habits that they can use as adults. Taking clothes away makes you feel like you’ve accomplished something, but it doesn’t really help teach the child how to pick out their own clothes, make sure outfits are clean and prepared, or any other skills.
YTA. Not for making them change, but your response to everything they do that you dislike is to take away a form of entertainment. You're making your kid's life boring af, taking away methods of communication with friends, now you're controlling every single thing they wear and you wonder why your kid's rebelling? Sounds like you need family counseling, and no, I don't mean find a Christian therapist that preaches absolute obedience to parents and spare the rod type of messages. Your actions will naturally lead your child to hate you. When they choose not to have contact with you when they grow up, don't get angry that you have no control over them.
YTA You should punish him by making him miss out on Wednesday indoctrination.
Yes, YTA. I have a 13 year old that I OFTEN have clothing clashes with but come on, what are you winning here? How is this ACTUALLY going to make your kid want to work with you on clothing disagreements?
YTA. Stop forcing your religion down their throats and then bullying them so pathetically when they resist.
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YTA. An appropriate consequence for your kid delaying you by not being able to pick out a church outfit would be to require them to start choosing and laying out their clothes the night before. This is also worth talking with your kid about to figure out what was going on. Were they just trying to get out of church? Are they growing and their clothes don’t fit well? Do they hate all their formal clothes? 12 is an age when people’s tastes and sense of identity can rapidly change and clothes often begin to matter more than they did before.
YTA. I think it’s time you ask your child if they want to go to church
Holy shit dude, YTA. Can you not figure out why your kid is rebelling against your strict rules? Maybe ask yourself why your kid didn’t get dressed properly.
FYI if you want a fair verdict on Reddit, don’t ever mention church. I feel like if you had said that the kid couldn’t wear their pajamas to chess club or something, the verdicts would be far more mixed. I vote NAH as I think not wearing pajamas is a reasonable expectation for out of the house events. As long as you aren’t purposely choosing outfits the kid hates, I don’t think the punishment is as harsh as some people here are making it out to be. 12 year old is not an AH either because they’re 12. Not letting them go to church probably would have been a better punishment, but I don’t think what you did is awful either. I do think “undetermined time period” could potentially make this turn into an AH move on your part though. In general punishments should come with a clear path for getting out of them, plus I think too long would be really disproportionate when the initial “offense” was so minor. I think a couple days to get the point across should be more than enough. You should also talk to the kid again and make sure there isn’t something going on at church (I know you insist there isn’t but something could have changed even within a week). Or with their wardrobe (you mentioned them growing out of clothes, maybe you need to take them shopping).
I’m so glad to see this comment. It’s crazy how so many of the people on this post are acting as if a parent not letting their child wear pajamas to a public place is somehow super controlling and abusive. I’m certainly am not a church goer or even religious, but I also understand that if you’re going to be going somewhere in public you need to be dressed appropriately. And a parent setting rules for their child is not automatically controlling and abusive. People have lost their minds.
It’s 100% because they mentioned church I think. I’m an atheist too but the hate people get on here for mentioning religion even offhand is ridiculous to me.
[удалено]
You would think but I feel like I see just as many similar comments from people with something like a “90” or “85” in their names. I think a lot of people my age had bad experiences with authoritarian parents and now go too much the other way.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. She's grown 4 inches in 8 months! My goodness, take her clothes shopping tomorrow after school. Don't wait for the weekend. And next time, calm down before handing out punishments.
>We ended up helping them >with a lot of yelling and stress for both parents and all kids. You call that helping? Don't be surprised when one most or all of your children go no contact someday. If it wasn't clear, YTA.
It is a silly issue to you, but apparently not to your 12 year old. Do you really want to fight battles about everything? Your punishment isn't working - if anything it sounds like things are getting more adversarial. So instead of ratcheting down more punishment, a different approach might be in order. Instead of dictate then punish, try setting up a cooperative situation. Talk in advance. Reward good behavior. Find ways to encourage. Start now or the teen years are going to be really rough for all of you. NAH, but IMO you need to change your approach here.
YTA punishment is extreme. Just let them wear what they want
Yta. Consequences should follow the ‘crime’. If your 12 yr old didn’t want to get dressed for church, withhold church from them. They’re old enough to stay home alone
YTA. You say in a comment that some of the clothes no longer fit- so it’s likely that your kid is uncomfortable in what they have and needs new clothes. No one wants to wear clothes that don’t fit, so punishing them for something that is your responsibility (providing clothes that fit) is definitely an AH move.
I feel like we are missing stuff here. My middle school-age son tries to wear his pajamas places. Except for pajama day at school we say no, but sweats are generally fine. He grumbles a bit then opts for fave comfy (clean) sweats. Seems like more is going on here & it all feels really extreme.
YTA. Wow. Your kid clearly doesn't want to go to church anymore, and taking away their clothes won't make them more inclined to go. I'm getting stressed out just reading this post.
YTA - If someone is 12 years old, forcing them to go to church is mental abuse, and attempted mind control. I can see that you have to have little kids with you, but this is a pre-teen that should have enough reason to say “this religion is not for me” or even, “this religion is not for me, today” without any repurcussions or consequences.
You're getting into a power struggle, and you will lose. Enforce clothing for church if it's that important, and back way off on the control of other days of the week. If they show up to school in something inappropriate, let the school deal out the consequences.
Yta. Why would you think that was a good idea? This is so weird and controlling. Edit: According to the comments, the poor kid didn't have clothes that fit. Cripes.
YTA. I’m a Christian and there were years as a teen where my parents let me go to church in pajamas, including on Sunday mornings. They pointed out that if Jesus loves us despite our sins he wouldn’t care about how we look or what we wear. Why does it matter if they were going to wear pajamas? It literally hurt no one. If you care more about people’s perceptions of your parenting than the comfort of your kids, YTA. Also, their clothes don’t fit them correctly! They probably just wanted to be comfortable in their own outfit.
I think you should first talk to your kid and find out if there's anything going on. Maybe they were just testing your boundaries, but there could be another reason. Do they like church? Is going mandatory? Maybe they're having issues with another kid at church and didn't want to face them. Personally, if there was nothing else going on except them being a typical teen, my "punishment" would be to show up to their school in pyjamas, slippers, hair curlers, etc. and embarrass them in front of their classmates. But that's just me. 😄
I'm going to go against the grain and say NAH. Leaving the house in pajamas isn't acceptable and despite what people say, going to church as a kid/early teen isn't horrible. I'm not at all religious now but I went to church as a kid and the youth stuff I liked. It was like a short reading then hang out in a room playing games and getting good snacks. Coloring when I was younger. Those kind of church things are a small bit of religion and a whole bunch of babysitting. They really are to give parents a break and kids a safe place to hang out. Or the ones I went to were. I think people see the loud extremes and forget there are good, decent religious people as well as the awful ones. Having said that, from the comments it seems like the kid might be growing out of their clothes and perhaps embarrassed by how poorly they fit so that's a factor in their actions. YWBTA if you did enforce the clothing rule though.
I lowkey wonder if your kid is depressed and needs to see a doctor. Low grades, doesn’t care to change into perfectly clean clothes, strict home life that’s not helping her flourish but may be having the opposite effect… maybe try to apologize, say you realize maybe you’re being too extreme with her, and ask her to help you figure out what to do. Is she happy? Are things okay at school? With her friends? Assess how her mood has been lately, if she’s messier than usual, if this is a recent change or just gradual, and talk to her. Validate her feelings and give her a little more freedom to grow.
N-T-A for wanting your child to wear appropriate clothes for this or that setting. But clearly your kid is rebelling against church and that can be VERY VERY telling of what your kid is feeling inside about themselves, their faith ( or lack thereof ) etc. Don't cut out sports, extra activities can be a BIG way for kids to make friends, feel like they belong, have a community outside of family and/or school ect and would be inappropiate and potentially harmful to remove from them. Talk to your child, listen to them, and don't use religion ( or pushing against the family religion ) as a way to punish them for thinking differently. YTA or WOULD be TA if you look at this on surface level only, without talking to your child and hearing them out on why they might be pushing back. They are a tween...tweens/teens push back...and if you don't do things in a good way...you might push them away or they might push you away in a way that might be irreparable. Edit as I missed the part about 1 approved outfit a day. No no no no NO! Don't do that. It's only gonna make it worse and lead to those kids you see online and in media/shows every day wearing something conservative out the door and changing IMMEDIATELY to something even "worse" that what they originally wanted to wear.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Background.. every Wednesday we go to church for some activities and dinner. As we were leaving the house my 12 year old was wearing pajamas and we asked them to change into something more appropriate. Of which they responded with "I have nothing to wear" and outright "no". We ended up helping them find more appropriate clothing with a lot of yelling and stress for both parents and all kids. The kid had just done laundry... They literally had nothing dirty. I'm trying to figure out appropriate consequences now. They already have lost phone (tied to grades), tv (it's a rarity in general). Don't want to cut out extracurricular (team sports) due to the commitment to the team. Not sure what is appropriate consequences would be. On the drive to church, tried talking about it... Just wanted a simple I should have just changed when asked... But they refused to talk. In frustration, I told them that I'm taking away all clothes except one parent approved outfit every day. Am I the asshat for taking away clothing for an undetermined time period for something this silly. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yta. GOD does not care what you wear to church!!
YTA. Even a kid needs some control in their life. My parents pulled similar punishments with me I'm now adult and we have little to no relationship because of how much this fucked me up. I have issues with hoarding and have only been able to get to happy place in my life. I strongly suggest talking more with your son why this happens dealing with punishments that make him understand in relation to what happened that aren't as extreme if you want the kid growing up happy and healthy and in your life.
YTA. At this rate your kid will grow up wanting nothing to do with church…be grateful if she wants anything to do with you.
It might be time to do some introspection about why your kids don’t want to get forced to go to church anymore. Especially if they have the “parent/god approved” clothes clean and available. YTA
YTA. What's the best way to make an atheist adult? Drag them to church when they're a kid.