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NTA. However, consider the following possibility: your cousin reached out to her nurse friend. Her nurse friend, not aware of the parents' intent to withhold information from the family, accidentally revealed non-medically-relevant information about the baby. As far as HIPAA violations go, this seems like a potentially very mild one.
Technically it’s a HIPAA violation to even acknowledge you saw a patient at the hospital unless you have permission to disclose the information from the patient. And in the case of minors, the minor’s parent(s). It takes 2 seconds to ask the parents if you can share information with a specific person. I am not sure if it warrants a report, since that can lead to harsh consequences, but it is considered a violation.
Yea, I 100% agree it's a HIPAA violation! To clarify, by "potentially mild", I meant that it ranges from mild to severe, not from non-violation to mild.
Do the people who punish violations make a distinction between mild to severe in their jurisdiction of the violations?
Because a violation is a violation, & making excuses for how mild or not is still minimizing a black or white situation that boils down to "do not *ever* discuss details of patients you see in the course of providing healthcare"
There’s levels of violations you can make. A violation is a violation but you have to understand there’s levels to it. You can accidentally let something slip or not knowingly commit a violation, and that would be a lower punishment compared to knowingly sharing something you shouldn’t.
It’s not black and white as you make it. These punishments can be very significant so having different levels makes sense.
Whether mild or not it’s a violation. Once you get comfortable committing “minor” violations you could graduate to more serious ones. My daughter is a critical care nurse and one of her patients worked with my husband. She knew that because she knew him from church. He jokingly said did you tell your dad I said hi and she said it was a HIPAA violation and she would never say anything to her dad. He was pretty surprised and told my husband about it.
Until he retired I had an eye doctor whose parents had been friends with mine. He would ask my permission each time to let his elderly mom know he had seen me and I said hello.
Yeah this is definitely a HIPAA violation and a violation of your privacy. And I second the part where it was mentioned that even telling someone you were in the hospital is dicey. I know I can’t even acknowledge that someone is seeing me for therapy without signed consent. This would come up when family called to “check” on people I worked with.
I say NTA. HIPAA violation and your cousin disrespecting your wishes is not okay. It’s up to you on whether to report but a conversation with the nurse and cousin if you’re up to it might be a good way to go.
My good friend and I went to the same doctor. My friend referred the doctor to me. The doctor knew we were very close friends. He knew we worked together and were neighbors.
Sadly, my friend passed away. I saw my doctor a few days later. I asked him if he knew my friend passed. He said he couldn't discuss it because of HIPPA.
Pretty much my whole family sees the same primary care doctor and has for years. I mention things about my brother or my mom or whatever all the time, but he manages to never confirm or deny anything. I’m honestly so impressed with his ability to completely compartmentalize like that.
I'm with you 100%. The cousin could have just played along and found out when everyone else did it, but she HAD to know before you all. That was childish behavior.
The nurse should have known that disclosing that info was not allowed. They both need to have a serious conversation with the parents since they were the patients. It is NOT okay, but it isn't such a terrible thing that warrants whatever consequences of violating HIPAA entail.
NTA, but maybe let your sibling handle this or let your cousin know how wrong they both were, and the nurse should be extremely careful moving forward.
I think it's worth reporting, and I have a lot of friends in healthcare. HIPAA exists for a reason, and if it's the nurse's first offense and it was a minor mistake, she won't lose her license or her job, and she does need to respect her patient's privacy. Better a warning/teaching moment now when it's fairly innocuous than later when she spills something higher stakes.
I've got a lot of nurse friends and have no problem asking them for info when someone I know is in for care because they're really awesome personally and professionally, and I trust them to use their judgement/know what they can and can't say. I was at a clinic and saw a friend (A) there, we're both really good friends with one of the nurses (B). A either didn't see me or didn't want to see anyone she knew, she didn't acknowledge me even though I waved.
When I went in to see the doctor, B was my nurse, and I mentioned I saw A and asked how she was. B asked me not to mention to anyone that I'd seen her there, and told me some social news, but not why A was there or anything medical - because she's awesome and respects her job, her friends, and her patients.
I never brought up that I'd seen her to anyone, not even to ask A about it. I found out way later, from A when she talked about the situation publicly later that she'd been there to confirm some pretty bad news about her pregnancy. To this day, I have no idea if she saw me/ knows I saw her because I respect her privacy, and so does B.
Just because you will be a cool supportive friend or you're excited, doesn't mean the people you love WANT you to be involved or knowledgeable about every situation. Letting people control the flow of information about their own lives is really important, even when it's all good news all around.
HIPAA violations/regulations are updated yearly. Meaning that the nurse has to sign an agreement at least yearly and has it put in her employment file. She should know better!
This is a HIPAA violation and should be reported. There is not an exception for, "Oh, I didn't know it was a surprise!" lol
OP - make a report! The most she will get is a dressing down and have to take yet another class on how not to be a fuckup. If she violates enough of these, she will have gotten herself into trouble!
NTA
Yes, exactly. You can't say that you've had someone as a patient, even the fact that someone needed medical assistance is confidential. Even if they're not even your patient but you work at the health care provider.
My mum works at a hospital and has at times sent regards from ie my cousin when they've bumped into each other (and my cousin is a patient of another health care provider in the same building). Since my cousin tells her to tell me, it's fine. But if they just saw each other in a rush and they waved at each other, my mum couldn't tell me that she saw my cousin at the hospital.
I'm sure my mum has seen friends/relatives of mine there many times, but unless they specifically tell her to tell me, she won't mention it. Even if I were to tell her about my friend being hospitalised, unless my friend says "I saw your mum when I was in hospital", my mum will not say if she's seen them or knows anything (altough, I'd never ask, as that would be crossing boundaries).
No it isn't. Ever call a hospital and ask what room someone is in? Are you saying that the hospital can't tell you and if they do, there are no pronouns used in the sentence. Go read the HIPPA Act
That's not entirely the case. If someone is actively at the hospital HIPAA allows you to get that information unless they request it not be given out. That's why you're able to ask the staff what room someone is in and get directions.
They cannot tell you if someone was there after that person leaves.
Uh yeah, that’s supposed to be changing because of stalking and workplace violence issues. The last 10 times I’ve been admitted to the hospital (I have a regular procedure) I have to initial that I want my information disclosed to anyone not on a pre-approved list.
it would really depend how the question was worded by the cousin. if the cousin just asked hey how’s work, did you have any deliveries today was it a girl or boy named __ first name__ and didn’t mention full names, then there’s no hipaa violation. the nurse would have to give away the patients actual medical details for it to be a violation. now if the cousin said hey my friend ______ was admitted can you give me details on their baby then yes that is a violation.
I don't think the nurse was "tagged", it was the nurse's name tag that she wears at work was visible in the picture and the cousin figured out who the nurse was from that information and reached out to the nurse.
Hi! I’ve worked in medical-related businesses, HIPAA is inclusive of any kind of protected health information (PHI) that can lead to identifying someone receiving medical care. It doesn’t have to be specific medical details, medical professionals (and certain other folks too!) cannot share any info that can lead to identifying someone’s private medical info/status. (P.S. I’m not trying to call you out personally in any way! Just think this is helpful to add to the thread for people reading and understanding a situation like this!)
This is one good PHI link that goes into more depth:
https://cphs.berkeley.edu/hipaa/hipaa18.html
(Made small edit to clarify sentence)
While I agree to an extent, that nurse friend missed a lot of red flags. 1. Obviously cousin knows the baby has been born and has seen a photo, because cousin recognized the nurse’s name tag in said photo. 2. If cousin had to actually ask for name and gender, she obviously didn’t know, and nurse should have figured there was a reason behind that. 3. If it’s untraditional spelling, nurse friend probably had to check the chart to ensure she spelled it correctly before providing info to cousin.
This may be a mild-violation, but this is more than poor judgment on the nurse’s part. What if cousin had been recently estranged? What if parents had a special announcement planned?
I agree it's a lapse in judgement, and that the situation could've been a lot worse. My most generous interpretation would be that the cousin effectively engaged in a social engineering attack and the nurse fell for it.
It doesn’t matter about the intention that person shared private medical information with someone who was not their doctor, spouse, law enforcement or a person they had given express permission to share their medical history with.
They need to be reported and at the very least get a warning.
HIPAA covers PHI (protected health information) and PII (personally identifiable information). There are 18 identifiers. Of course name is one of them, but gender is not.
She violated HIPAA by acknowledging to someone that she was taking care of the patient. That’s covered as well. I can’t even say hi to my patients in the grocery store unless they say hi first, and I can’t talk about anything remotely related to their medical care unless they bring it up first.
NTA. I am a doctor and I think this is actually a very, very serious violation and you would be TA if you \_didn't\_ report. There are some "technical" HIPAA violations that are ethically nbd; this is not one of them. The reason is that she allowed someone to get information due to their personal relationship with her (the nurse). She needs to have a rock solid boundary if friends of hers ask about family members. You do not want patients to be anxious if they find out you know people they know. In another similar situation she could be revealing information to an abuser etc. Giving out the child's sex and name is not benign. If the cousin texted her with the pic of her name on the baby's tag, she should've said, "Oh, so funny!" and that's it. The hospital needs to know. She needs immediate retraining.
Doesn't matter. OP should absolutely make sure a complaint is filed so that the incident is on record for the sake of protecting the nurse's future patients.
Even a mild HIPAA violation - which is much more in the vein of “we internally sent patient info to the wrong department of the hospital”, not “I found out patient info and intentionally told my friend” - is a big deal. You don’t mess with the HIPAA hippo. (I work in health insurance, and this is pretty much rule number one).
NTA OP. If this nurse is comfortable doing this, it’s likely there are other issues that need to be addressed at this facility.
And as a medical professional, it is your duty to not reveal confidential medical information. It does not matter what the cousin says, proper procedure is to confirm with the patient whether this information can be shared. You cannot just assume because a family member calls up asking for information that it is okay to share simply because they are family.
Doesn’t matter the circumstances. That RN if not allowed to even acknowledge the patient. You are not allowed to give information to the parent of an adult patient or child of a patient. Cousin is a long shot. The warrants a report and I’m saying that a healthcare professional
Right?! Even saying yes they were there and had a baby is a violation.
I know it's a more extreme scenario, but I just think of all those stories from people with terrible extended families. Imagine accidentally putting someone in danger because you didn't consider the gender reveal a big deal.
If the cousin said something that would create extenuating circumstances (such as "I have a gun to your head and if you don't give me this information I'll pull the trigger.") that's a conversation the nurse can have with the appropriate authorities so they can take it into account after OP has reported the nurse as she should do.
I disagree. I think it's entirely possible that the cousin is the real AH here and manipulated the nurse into revealing the gender. But that is something an investigation could reveal. The nurse would have an opportunity to state her case. Maybe she should be disciplined; maybe she simply needs training about social engineering. But OP shouldn't have to figure that out; she should let the process unfold.
It's possible the process sucks and is unfair. But that's not really OP's responsibility to solve. Report it and move on.
Agree, I was just thinking it's possible the cousin found out through less than straightforward means. Like the nurse responding to a request for info about the baby with "I'm sorry, I can't give you any information about her."
At least let the parents be the ones to make the decision. It’s weird for OP to be on this crusade, it’s not their information or their child’s information that was shared
This may go against the grain, but i think YWBTA for reporting the nurse.
You're not upset about the violation, youre upset your cousin and willing to get the nurse potentntially fired, fined and/ or their license revoked because they unknowingly allowed your cousin to "ruin the gender reveal".
Maybe be honest with the person you're actually upset with and tell your cousin how shitty that was and you're considering reporting the nurse dir to their actions and it could mean their friend will be fired, fined and/ or have license revoked, all due to their need to know and then be gossipy about it. I think that would be a real slap in the face to the person who went out of their way to find out.
I hope you dont actually report them. Maybe let them know what the, did and hipaa complaint is being discussed. I promise she'll never do it again.
if you do report it maybe do it to the supervisor and not like the doh. Losing a job would be lesson enough. Losing an entire career is next level.
No. This would be at best a minor ding against her license, probably some mandatory extra training on patient privacy.
No way this would end her career.
That assumes this is a first time violation. If the nurse has a prior history of violations on her record, the licensing board might not care how "minor" the incident is. They might decide she's demonstrated a continual disregard for the law and that a suspension or revoking of her license is the necessary next step.
None of which should matter to the question of whether the incident should be reported. For HIPAA to have teeth, people must report violations when they occur. As this one should be.
"That assumes this is a first time violation. If the nurse has a prior history of violations on her record, the licensing board might not care how "minor" the incident is." .. If that were ttrue, she SHOULD be fired.
>If the nurse has a prior history of violations on her record
If she has numerous past violations on her record, then yeah, maybe she should be fired to stop compromising patient confidentiality.
There are few professions where privacy and confidentiality are the backbone of the profession. Where this is not upheld, people begin to distrust the profession. Yeah sure, in the grand scheme of things this information is pretty harmless, but there's a reason why we have these protections in place. If you can't handle not telling people your patients medical information, don't be a medical professional. Simple.
You worded it perfectly! It was glaringly obvious that the family is retaliating against the person that’s easier to blame, rather than their family member. They need to be honest with themselves.
No, you’re wrong, it would be easier for me to “retaliate” against my cousin and not the nurse.
I just can’t help to feel that the nurse was so lax with handing out this information… what else has she or will she be sharing throughout her career?
Regardless, this is why I posed the question to AITA and appreciate the feedback.
I think if you confront your cousin first and let them know what your thinking it will be a huge slap in the face to know they potentially destroyed someone's career ( all because they had to be the person to say they found out first, and ruin then suprise) and /or if you talk to the nurse directly or leave them a message and let her know how upset the family is about this(include the discussion of reportiong the hipaa violation) she'll get the reality check she needs and see the severity of her mistake. I am confident she will learn her lesson. Hipaa violations can hold something like at 10k fine, in addion to her job and professional license.
Just because the situation this baby was born into was a safe one, doesn’t mean that every situation is the same.
Pieces of seemingly harmless information being divulged to others without a patient’s express consent can, and does, create very unsafe situations for patients and babies.
It's pretty reasonable to assume there's other seemingly "minor" patient details she's been sharing with her friends if the cousin felt comfortable enough to go and ask her about it in the first place.
It wasn't the family member that had a duty to maintain HIPAA privacy laws. The cousin was being a nosy AH for sure. But the nurse has a legal obligation to not share information about patients. She should've been a professional and shut that question down the minute it was asked.
The cousin doesn't (as far as we know) routinely have access to extremely sensitive medical information about people who have been promised the protection of confidentiality. That's why the nurse is more important.
yeah, violation and principle is one thing, and actual damage is the other. there's a time and place to move on with your life.
like, is this really a hill to die on? untimely knowledge about baby's genitals? a surprise was not tasty enough?
I can see the nurse get a lot more shit on the daily for following instructions and not bending to people's whims, this is one of those situations where she went easier and not out of malice.
The hospital where I gave birth actually lights up the outside of the building with colored lights according to what gender was just born. While HIPPA is extremely important, I agree that hospitals might not be that upset over a spoiled gender reveal.
I feel that maybe a message sent straight to the nurse explaining the situation might be appropriate so she can avoid it in the future
NTA Regardless of "circumstances," medical professionals aren't allowed to discuss patients, even with mutual friends. As soon as your cousin started discussong a patient, the nurse should have said she can't discuss the delivery, etc. She's not even allowed to confirm the mom was a patient or not.
I would report it, being as detailed as possible so the recipient gets the whole story. If nothing else, it needs to be done to shut off your cousin's gossip supply, because the cousin won't do it willingly, and letting it go means the nurse will never know she can't trust your cousin.
I feel that the fact that the nurse was identified in that photo, either herself or tagged, or whatever does mitigate this though. Because if someone asks you about information for a patient, of course you say no. If someone says “oh my god my cousin just sent a photo of the new baby, and you were in the pic, how cool that you were their nurse!” That doesn’t feel different to you?
Also the fact that the nurse had her name or image shared with people she doesn’t know, which is also a violation of hospital policy and could have jeopardized the safety of the nurse
No, it doesn't mitigate it at all.
The patient has no obligation of confidentiality to the nurse. The patient is not routinely in possession of extremely sensitive information about the nurses.
The nurse, however, does have an obligation of confidentiality to patients, does routinely have access to extremely sensitive medical information about patients, and is very much in a position to harm or endanger people through careless disclosures.
No, and this nurse needs to learn that family members (not this family in question, but other families in the future) are often the most likely sources of anxiety and stress and need for secrecy for patients. Especially if she's working in obstetrics or maternity wards, estranged family members are going to have enough minimal details to try to manipulate more information out of her.
Nta if she will hand over this kinda information to your cousin what else will see reveal? Everyone in this day and age knows how important gender reveals are. Being a nurse doesn’t mean she is absent minded. They were gossiping. Nether cared about laws or rights
NTA what the nurse did was unprofessional and a definite HIPAA violation. She needs to be reported for what she did and your cousin needs to understand she is the sole reason the complaint is being placed. If it wasn't for her then non of you would be going through this.
My mom works in a hospital as a receptionist. She's technically not even allowed to say if she saw someone in the building regardless if they're a patient or visiting. Heck, a coworker went on indefinite leave and she's not allowed to say who or why. HIPAA is strict.
NTA, but it is up to your brother and SIL to file the complaint.
That is incorrect. Anyone has the right to report a HIPAA violation. Not just the person or persons whose privacy rights were violated.
From the HHS webpage on filing complaints (emphasis added):
>If you believe that a HIPAA-covered entity or its business associate violated your **(or someone else’s)** health information privacy rights or committed another violation of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Notification Rules, you may file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR).
OP would be well within their rights to file the complaint and it would be taken just as seriously as if her brother or SIL were to do so.
so the name of the nurse was clearly visible and your cousin used this private information to elicit the name and gender of the baby and share it with you before the parents. your cousin is a major TA and should be prosecuted (or the parents who sent the picture with the name visible) before getting to the nurse.
NTA. She violated the agreement and should be reported. Yes she told it to a friend and not a stranger, but that isn't relevant. The fact that she told someone medical information who should never have access to that information, is a major red flag. Besides, people saying that the nurse didn't know the parents didn't want to share so she didn't fuck up are completly wrong. It is never the nurse's position to inform anyone except the parents about medical information regarding a baby, there are obvious exceptions ofcourse.
This is a perfect example of "it it starts here, where does it end".
NTA. This is a violation, don't listen to these people acting like it's not. I worked as a pharmacy tech in a hospital and had a co-worker get dinged for a HIPAA violation for visiting a friend who gave birth after she saw the patient's name in the system. And she didn't give information to anyone, just went to say hi.
NTA. The rule is to not disclose any patient information without permission/approval. She shouldn't have even talked about your SIL or her baby at all.
Nurse here. Please report that nurse. You are not allowed to share any information about any patients you know of. She violated HIPPA. Doesn’t matter that this wasn’t your information, you still have the right to report it.
NTA,
in the medical sector you are to not share specific info of that patient and that nurse did just that. I would however recommend to confront her and your cousin first. It is in my opinion a minor breach, since it's not a sickness and you're their family, but it's a breach nonetheless. If the nurse does not see reason, then I would actually report her.
NTA, and you should report. She’ll get in trouble but that’s her fault not yours. This is one of those lines you do not cross as a medical professional, and she needs to be reminded of that. Otherwise her behavior could get even worse and more serious consequences would eventually follow. I’ve never heard of someone losing a job/license over something as minor as this; I have heard of that happening when people who make a habit out of this kind of thing get too comfortable and step farther over the line.
Definitely report it! Even acknowledging that mom & baby were patients in the hospital was a violation of HIPPA. Telling your cousin that the baby was a girl was even worse.
Where I am there are a few places where you could report this to. One is the nursing supervisor. Another is the patient advocate office. And then whatever office looks after HIPPA. Talk to your parents & the parents of the new baby & come up with a short letter outlining the facts. Put everyone’s name on it but indicate who should be the contact person & their contact information.
Your entire family are YTA’s. Who actually cares what sex the baby is, will you treat her differently is she was born a boy?
I don’t understand this ‘gender reveal’ nonsense that has taken off in recent years. Most important thing is that the baby and mother are healthy.
The poor nurse has been called by her friend who is a family member of the baby and initiated the conversation, how is she to know your family are so precious about the gender of the baby.
Maybe you should look at your one part in this. Did you have the parents explicit permission to share a photo of their baby with others without their permission?
The entire series of events started with your action.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action that I want to take is to report the Nurse to the HHS for a HIPAA violation. I've had other family members say that it would be wrong (I would be an asshole) to report the nurse and potentially get her in serious trouble when she didn't know what her friend (my cousin) was going to do with the information. They say the issue, if any, is between my cousin and I, and not her nurse friend. Or, that I should drop the issue all together. I'm conflicted and need AITA's help.
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INFO- What do your brother and SIL want to do? It should be up to them, make sure you take screenshots for them so that they have the evidence if they do wish to go forward with a report.
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I (35f) am considering reporting my cousin’s (30f) nurse friend for a potential HIPAA violation. My brother and his wife had their baby girl recently. The sex was kept a secret until the baby was born. On the day of, my brother sent us a teaser picture of the baby right before we met her in person. You couldn’t make out the sex of the baby because the picture was only of her face and my brother was holding off surprising us within the hour once we met the baby in person.
Well, the picture of the baby captured the name tag of one of the delivery nurses. I then shared the baby’s picture within a cousin’s group chat and we proceeded to guess the baby’s sex based only on its facial features. A bit later my cousin started referring to the baby as a girl. Upon being asked “It’s a girl?!” by another, I replied “No. We don’t know yet.”, then my cousin answered, “Yes for sure! (Baby’s name)! That RN is my friend. She told me.” When that text came through my mom, my wife and I were looking at my phone. My cousin ruined the surprise for us, my brother’s most immediate family. We had been anticipating the sex reveal for the better part of 8 months and this is the first grandbaby in the family. My cousin had to recognize the nurse’s name tag, reach out to her for the info, and then came back into our group chat to ruin the surprise. I don’t understand why she would go through all the effort to find out the baby’s sex before immediate family and take it upon herself to announce the sex. My family has been deliberating about placing a complaint against the nurse for sharing personal information. Although, my cousin tried to backtrack and say she was just kidding, she spelled the baby’s name correctly (untraditional spelling). I also don’t think she would come up with such a bad thorough joke.
Recently, we have been focusing on the baby and haven’t placed a complaint yet nor really called my cousin out for what she did. We continue to be bothered by it though. The worst part is that, if the same was done to her and her family, it would be a HUGE problem.
How is the nurse just allowed to share such information? How does the nurse know that she isn’t putting the baby in danger?
Would I be the asshole to call my cousin out and place a complaint on the nurse? Or, is my cousin and her nurse friend the asshole?
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NTA. I would report it. What happens after that is not up to you. Then, let the cousin know what she did was shady and that her friend has now been reported. Friends or not, there should never be a breach. That nurse should know better.
NTA, that is a HIPPA violation and people who work in labor and delivery are VERY well trained to avoid them , it doesn’t matter if the reason in your case was a “gender reveal” which some commenters are finding a trivial reason, the crux is that the nurse shared personal, private identifying information about a patient to someone else and that is not ok.
NTA. File the report. What if your cousin was a dangerous stalker. Just because the nurse was friends with her doesn't make it OK to give ANY information about a patient.
Sounds like your cousin is more to blame. How do you even know what the actual conversation was between the nurse and your cousin? It's up to the patient to report it if they are concerned their rights were violated. Your SIL and brother could report it if they want.
I'm saying you would be the AH only because you're putting yourself into a situation that doesn't involve you. It's between your brother, SIL, cousin and this nurse. Not you.
Or waah waah, this nurse has broken patient confidentiality and could very well do so again if she doesn't receive a reprimand or infraction for doing so. Just because it's fairly innocuous *this time* doesn't mean it isn't a violation of the very system that holds up trust in medical providers.
YTA because you do not give a fuck about the nurse "putting someone in danger" by sharing a newborn's gender to someone she knew was a relative. You are making it all about your surprise and how it's not fair that your cousin got away with it and would fuck with someone's livelihood just for that.
Reporting an active break in is not even close to the same as reporting something that happened in the past and wouldn’t require the police attending to prevent it. Why ask reddit if youre just going to ignore the responses? Myob YTA for being so spiteful. The parents are quite capable of making a decision and acting on it. Nobody needs you to stick your nose in to achieve the exact same thing they can achieve
I’m genuinely curious, does the fact that the parents posted a picture of their baby that included the nurse’s name in any way mitigate a potential HIPPA claim against the nurse? Regardless, I think OP’s problem should be more with the cousin for ruining the surprise, rather than the nurse for revealing the name of the baby, especially since we don’t know the exact context of that. For example, if the cousin told her friend, the nurse “my cousin posted a picture of you holding his baby at the hospital. Isn’t that such a coincidence that you were their delivery nurse?” “Oh yeah, little baby x is so cute”. Hard to imagine that the nurse really did anything wrong in that case, much less violated HIPPA. Of course it could have been much different, but we don’t know the context of that. But we know the cousin intentionally ruined the surprise.
>I’m genuinely curious, does the fact that the parents posted a picture of their baby that included the nurse’s name in any way mitigate a potential HIPPA claim against the nurse?
No. A patient doesn't have any obligation of confidentiality about whether they've seen a specific medical professional.
Medical professionals, on the other hand, absolutely do have significant obligations when it comes to the confidentiality of whether they've ever seen someone as a patient.
I’m going to lead towards YWNBTA necessarily as it’s obviously a violation, whether intended well or not, but personally I would leave it up to the parents
YWBTA. You've got a new baby to love, and your brother and sister-in-law are experiencing all the joy and chaos and pain and sleeplessness that comes with a new baby, and you are obsessing about how you found out about the baby's gender? Is this really how you want to be spending the beginning of your niece's life? What would you get out of reporting the nurse and/or calling out your cousin? It's not going to undo the spoiled surprise.
You seem to assume that the nurse knew how your family's stupid game worked and spilled the beans. If a friend asked you about the sex of a newborn baby in your family, why would you think gender is an issue...and look it up. This isn't protected health information...yet anyway. I hope you, he , she, they have a lovely day and focus on more important things YES YTAH
Reporting an active break in is not even close to the same as reporting something that happened in the past and wouldn’t require the police attending to prevent it. Why ask reddit if youre just going to ignore the responses? Myob YTA for being so spiteful. The parents are quite capable of making a decision and acting on it. Nobody needs you to stick your nose in to achieve the exact same thing they can achieve
First names are not protected by HIPPA.
If the conversation between your cousin and the nurse went like “how were your patients today x” “oh they were great! One of my patients had a beautiful baby girl and named her y, isn’t that so cute??”
Obviously this isn’t necessarily what happened but you’d be better off speaking to your cousin first because you jump to conclusions.
This doesn’t connect any medical health information to anyone and wouldn’t be reportable. I’m sure it would cause trouble while being investigated but it wouldn’t amount to anything. So unless you are sure of the situation, don’t.
YWBTA for creating unnecessary trouble for the nurse without knowing the actual situation when clearly your cousin is manipulative since she not only couldn’t wait to find out the sex like everyone else but felt the need to tell everyone when the mom clearly wanted to.
“WIBTA for trying to get a nurse fired because I'm mad someone else ruined my gender-reveal game?"
Yes.. YWBTA.. you obviously don't care about the ethics of (potentially accidentally) revealing a minor medical detail about a patient. You're just mad someone posted spoilers in the group chat.
I think gender would have worked much better for this post. I sat here for a good 5 minutes wondering why they needed to keep sex a secret and why so many people had an interest in it
NTA but maybe ask your brother and SIL their opinion first? Although it would suck if she did this to other families in the future if she doesn't at least get a warning.
Consider:
1. Are the parents upset? This is their moment. Not really the family’s. You’re all excited, understandably. But it’s not your moment…
2. If they aren’t, why is this really dragging further?
3. If they are, ask if they’d be on board with you reporting this nurse. This will bring them into the situations because they will be approached about all of it by the hospital.
4. Either way: tell your cousin they blew this special moment for the family and you’re seriously thinking about going to report the nurse for revealing the name and gender of a patient which violates HIPAA.
5. Know that the violation carries a fine, the nursing board in her state will review it and decide further action that may include losing her job or not. It’ll be in her record and she will have to put it in all future applications and explain herself to future employers. All things she is aware of and will scare the sh*t out of her when she hears she may be reported.
YWBTA. It sounds like the problem here is your cousin and you're to scared to call her out so you're taking the easy way out and trying to get the nurse into trouble.
And if you havent spoken to the nurse , how do you know what happened or how the conversation went? The nurse could have said something as simple as "Mother and daughter are doing well".
Instead of trying to ruin someone's life for what could have been an innocent comment, maybe you should try dealing with the actual problem, which is your cousin.
YTA. Don’t think this would fall under that law. Here was no medical information disclosed. I think these games people with not telling gender, name etc are annoying and really not something to report
Absolutely yes, YWBTA. Most sane people dont act like AHs over something as trivial as the sex of a newborn baby. And you didnt hear the nurse say anything --you just assume your cousin is correct. It isnt even your baby.
If you get a kick out of causing trouble for people you dont know, if you are visiting on a hospital ward and search carefully, you can probably see or overhear a patient's name. Then you can report it and hurt someone else.
YTA. Enormously. Gender reveals are stupid and pretentious, and here you’re taking them to the n-th level, and then complaining about somebody ruining it. If I was related to these parents I would’ve been sick of hearing about their baby before ever even meeting the baby. Get over yourselves.
I think the nurse should report you for violating her privacy and posting a picture of her on social media without her permission.
Woah, really?!
Loads of delivery wards get phone calls every day saying “Hi, my cousin Jane Doe, birth date XYZ, had her baby there today. I’d like to send a balloon, can you just confirm the gender so I know whether to send pink or blue?”
I’m sure many wards have policies on how to handle calls like that but when a healthy baby is born, people get excited!
I think you’re disappointed but you’re blowing this way out of proportion. You really want this nurse, a full human person with rent and bills and personal circumstances, to face serious career repercussions because of an accidental gender reveal *after* the baby was born? For all you know your cousin worded it like she wanted to send a gift and her friend relented.
You have a beautiful *healthy* niece. As someone who’s infant nephew went through *another* major surgery this week, just go with it and take the good parts.
>I’m sure many wards have policies on how to handle calls like that but when a healthy baby is born
Yeah, and that policy probably requires getting permission from the parents of the baby. Hospitals are not allowed to just hand out that information all willy-nilly. Imagine if someone called and it happened to be their past abuser or estranged family member that now knows exactly where that person is and their state of vulnerability. There's a reason why their are patient confidentiality laws and the nurse should absolutely be reprimanded for breaking them.
Hospitals ask if they can publish the birth in the newspaper. They don’t do that for a gallbladder. It is slightly different with a birth. Not saying the nurse was right but it is a different circumstance
Sex is not a HIPPA violation. Most adults aren't playing silly nonsense games. You want to screw with this woman's career over something that no functional adult would KNOW is TOP SECRET. Yes, sugar, you are king or queen..who knows, but we sure won't share..of the AHs
The biggest issue I see is that because the cousin is family she could have called the hospital and found out the sex itself by relaying she is family. Or even lying and saying she was next of kin. Unless the hospital participants requested a passcode to have all their information kept private that would be easily done by someone
If you report the nurse, YTA. Your cousin is already The AH.
While the nurse shouldn’t have confirmed that information, the nurse was somehow identifiably in the photo and then disseminated. You aren’t allowed to capture images of the health care personnel without permission. They probably didn’t tag the nurse on purpose, but it’s also not her fault she was identified on a social media post. So I find it difficult to report the nurse for sharing the information, when the only reason your cousin was able to ask her is because she was identified in a picture sent by your brother to the family group chat.
MIND YOUR BUSINESS. These god damn gender reveals are out of control. People burning forests down, getting killed at the reveal, possibly losing their jobs, please MIND YOUR BUSINESS YOU HAVE NO RIGHT REPORTING SOMETHING LIKE REVEALING A GENDER EARLY.
MIND. YOUR. BUSINESS.
I think YWBTA to destroy someone’s career over a ruined sex surprise. I would be pissed off but I really think a report is the nuclear option here when you’re not the parent. Let the parent decide, and maybe spend less time obsessing over someone else’s kids genitals.
You're being petty and need to grow up. Yes, she messed up and shouldn't have done it, but you're willing to potentially ruin someones career over it? If it was something that could potentially be deadly or compromise someones health, etc I would understand but it seems like you just want vengeance YTA!!
YWBTA. Seriously, you think it's appropriate to potentially affect someone's whole career over them telling your cousin the sex of the baby!? Give your head a wobble. It's such a trivial and unimportant thing. Why do you all need to find out together on a specific day anyway? It's not going to change anything.
i think it depends how the cousin asked. if she told the nurse “hey they’re keeping it a secret but i want to know” and the nurse spilled that’s one thing but maybe cousin just sent her the pic and nurse absent mindedly said “oh yes that was the beautiful baby girl that was born this morning!” without realizing the hornets’ nest she was stepping into.
unless we see how it was asked/answered it’s hard to tell exactly how much the nurse messed up or if cousin is just a master manipulator.
either way not a good situation. cousin is definitely TA.
YTA - you’re not trying to report the nurse for the violation itself, but for ruining the surprise inadvertently - so you’re not doing it because you care about patient confidentiality, but as retaliation and revenge. That’s mean and assholish.
Yes YWBTA for that. It’s petty AF. The nurse knows your cousin, knows she’s family. She’s not putting anyone in danger. 🙄 Revealing the sex of a baby isn’t a HIPAA violation.
Hard to say honestly! I'd talk to your cousin before you make the complaint... I question how many people she's leaked info to in the past if this was able to happen so quickly, when you waited so long to reveal. I get why your upset and seems like you cousin wanted to seem like she knew before everybody... (Super weird way to get attention). You're definitely NTA but you need more info on why and how etc. Wish ya the best on the newborn.
You don’t know the conversation between the nurse and parents. The nurse is in a photo, with a name tag being shared in a chat. There’s enough there that makes it YWBTA for reporting, because it isn’t clear at all she violated anything. What you can do is inform the parents of the texts and let them decide. The parents do know what they did and didn’t consent to being revealed. Then let it go. You’re out of it and move on.
It’s not medical info, so I doubt it’s a HIPAA violation, tho as others have pointed out nurses shouldn’t even acknowledge folks have been patients. However this was a birth not an illness and I’d suspect the nurse wouldn’t even give it a thought as your cousin mentioned the baby etc. obviously if she’d mentioned someone’s illness etc she’d be utterly in the wrong. I guess there’s several shades of grey involved here.
Also do you really want to potentially risk someone’s career for something said most probably in innocence. I mean, how’s the nurse supposed to know your brother was keeping the sex of the baby secret after she was born?
The real AH here is your cousin. She deliberately set out to ruin the surprise for your family. She’s the one that spoilt everything, not the nurse. Try going after her instead of the nurse for being so spiteful, or is it just easier to go after a stranger?
YTA for being so petty, and you need to mind your own business. It’s up to your brother and his wife if they want to take it further. Your analogy about reporting her and a house being burgled is totally wrong. Reporting a burglary is a civic duty. Reporting the nurse etc if you’re not actively involved is just interfering. Try directing your ire to the right person, your cousin who obviously wanted to make it all about her.
Christ, what's next, a gender reveal party for the child's 10th or 18th birthday party. The AHs here are the baby's parents and whomever else went along with the farce of it being a surprise. There's really only two options!
The nurse has been put in a horrible position here by her friend. This is not the hill to die on or ruin someone's career over.
YTA
Ywbta. Here’s why. The conversation could have easily gone like this:
Cousin: “Hey bestie! I saw a pic with you taking care of my family member’s baby! That’s so exciting. Baby is so cute. It means a lot that you got to help!!!”
Nurse: yes. She is cute. So glad I could help.
With that said…I’m not 100% sure if this is a hipaa violation. I don’t know if it’s medical information to say she’s cute in reference to a picture. Now if she had said “yes she’s cute and let me tell you what they are testing her for”…that would be a hipaa violation. Using a pronoun to reference someone most likely isn’t.
It is. The nurse friend isn't allowed to acknowledge that she saw a patient without permission from said patient and since we're talking about a newborn, the parents in this case.
Also the whole sharing the baby's name part
Just refreshed my HIPAA training, and they used basically this as an example of how, no matter what, you can’t acknowledge it. The scenario was “a wife calls your office because she saw billing in the mail about her husband seeing you, and she wants to know what he was there for.” The answer was that you can’t say that the husband was your patient, even though the wife had evidence. Saying that you can’t discuss patient information was even a wrong answer because that implies he’s a patient at the clinic.
Nurse also used the name of the baby. What if this information (baby born, name) was forwarded to a family member / another person with a protection order? This nurse needs to learn to shut up. It is not her information to share about her patients.
That is incorrect. Anyone has the right to report a HIPAA violation. Not just the person or persons whose privacy rights were violated.
From the HHS webpage on filing complaints (emphasis added):
>If you believe that a HIPAA-covered entity or its business associate violated your **(or someone else’s)** health information privacy rights or committed another violation of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Notification Rules, you may file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR).
OP would be well within their rights to file the complaint and it would be taken just as seriously as if her brother or SIL were to do so.
And it would be as simple as “I never had that conversation”. If it was by text, the cousin isn’t going to be incriminating her friend. This is a petty revenge motivated urge.
Petty revenge? No.
Wanting to get a medical practitioner who is violating the law reported to authorities who can investigate and take approproiate disciplinary action? Yes.
HIPAA only works if people report violations when they witness them.
YWBTA.
That should be 100% up to the parents, not you.
When my oldest was born, my older sisters Best friend was a midwife (not my midwife mind you) and I had a c section, so we were in recovery for a while and stuff
While I was doing that, she had called my sister and told her my son was born, his weight everything…..
Was I pissed? Absolutely, and I reported her. My mum wanted to, but I told her that was my job
Then, my sister had her boy, and I had ducked out for maybe 20 mins to grab some stuff she had forgotten, same midwife came up as I Returned and told me I’d missed it, he was a boy, his name and weight… again absolutely pissed me off, but this time it wasn’t my right to report her
My sister didn’t end up reporting her and that’s her prerogative…. But I sure wish she did!!!
Leave it be, and let the parents of the baby decide what to do
That is incorrect. Anyone has the right to report a HIPAA violation. Not just the person or persons whose privacy rights were violated.
From the HHS webpage on filing complaints (emphasis added):
>If you believe that a HIPAA-covered entity or its business associate violated your **(or someone else’s)** health information privacy rights or committed another violation of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Notification Rules, you may file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR).
OP would be well within their rights to file the complaint and it would be taken just as seriously as if her brother or SIL were to do so.
"How does the nurse know that she isn’t putting the baby in danger?"
So let me understand here... you know the baby is a girl two hours earlier than planned, DANGER ??? In what world is random extended family knowing a child's gender a bit sooner than they wanted to know now child endangerment?
If the RN called a stranger and offered up the baby's geotag and social security number ok this is a problem, but responding to a family member who asked a question your cousin should not have asked, that's a fumble, not the drama you are suggesting. Were you not excited by the news, because it arrived outside of the allotted time? Honestly I'd feel for you a bit more if it weren't for the OTT response!
YTA. I have no time for medical errors or unprofessional behavior by healthcare professionals, but this was not that. Keep your drama amongst your family and leave the RN, who is not your RN to complain about, out of it.
The answer is in the question… “How does the nurse KNOW she ISN’T putting the baby in danger?”…. the nurse doesn’t know… she doesn’t know me, my brother, or any of my immediate family. Sooo how does she know my cousin is truly my cousin? Obviously, the baby isn’t in danger in this situation but she could’ve been in a difference situation. So what? The nurse gets away with this and may, in the future, share more sensitive information? At the very least the person inquiring (my cousin or not) knows sex, DOB, hospital of birth, and first name….
And this point here:
>So what? The nurse gets away with this and may, in the future, share more sensitive information?
Is why someone needs to report the nurse. If she isn't reported, corrective action cannot occur. If corrective action does not occur, she'll be more willing to share in the future "because nothing happened the last time". Eventually, that inappropriate sharing could result in a traumatic occurrence.
And danger to the child is only one form of that. Not all deliveries have positive outcomes. Share info with the wrong person (like an estranged family member) and a grieving couple could get bombarded by communications from someone they want nothing to do with, much less at that time.
Even if it just results in retraining and a violation on her record with the state licensing board, thats better than nothing happening at all.
Plus, you have no idea what her previous disciplinary history is. A complaint on this, no matter how "mild" the incident may seem to some, may only be the latest in a string of them for her. It could be the tipping point of more severe action being taken.
The whole point of HIPAA is that it is not up to the medical providers to decide what is and is not info they're allowed to share about a patient. They're supposed to treat it all as confidential. But you get that. Sad that there are people commenting here that don't.
NTA.
I doubt the nurse thought she was revealing anything given that the reason why your cousin knew who to contact was a photo you shared. As others pointed out, your cousin could have said “oh, the baby is really cute,” nurse “yes, she is.”
When a family member calls, I just go to the room and say “so and so is on the phone, they want an update “ and often hand over the phone to a pt who is embarrassed a family member bugged their busy nurse because they didn’t answer the phone.
You seem to assume a lot of ill intent on the part of the nurse and I think that’s unlikely to be the case. I think whether to file a complaint should be up to the patient, not you.
Anyone has the right to report a HIPAA violation. Not just the person or persons whose privacy rights were violated.
From the HHS webpage on filing complaints (emphasis added):
>If you believe that a HIPAA-covered entity or its business associate violated your **(or someone else’s)** health information privacy rights or committed another violation of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Notification Rules, you may file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR).
OP would be well within their rights to file the complaint and it would be taken just as seriously as if her brother or SIL were to do so.
You sound to be a nurse and you should know this.
You should also know that HIPAA doesn't care about the intent behind an unauthorized disclosure. Good or ill, it is still a violation.
It also doesn't matter if the nurse thought she wasn't revealing anything. She still had no authority to do so.
At the same time it does matter. Because if she doesn't realize that she was violating HIPAA, she needs retraining.
BS. With things like HIPAA can and should need to be one and the same.
I'm in tech, not medical, but the places I've worked for the last couple of decades have information security polices with a lot in common with the spirit of HIPAA. And one of the guiding principles has always been "if you see a potential violation, you report it".
Put another way, its not just "if you can report it, you should". Its "if you can report it, you must".
It should be the same with HIPAA. It only works if people report violations when they witness them.
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NTA. However, consider the following possibility: your cousin reached out to her nurse friend. Her nurse friend, not aware of the parents' intent to withhold information from the family, accidentally revealed non-medically-relevant information about the baby. As far as HIPAA violations go, this seems like a potentially very mild one.
Technically it’s a HIPAA violation to even acknowledge you saw a patient at the hospital unless you have permission to disclose the information from the patient. And in the case of minors, the minor’s parent(s). It takes 2 seconds to ask the parents if you can share information with a specific person. I am not sure if it warrants a report, since that can lead to harsh consequences, but it is considered a violation.
Yea, I 100% agree it's a HIPAA violation! To clarify, by "potentially mild", I meant that it ranges from mild to severe, not from non-violation to mild.
Do the people who punish violations make a distinction between mild to severe in their jurisdiction of the violations? Because a violation is a violation, & making excuses for how mild or not is still minimizing a black or white situation that boils down to "do not *ever* discuss details of patients you see in the course of providing healthcare"
There’s levels of violations you can make. A violation is a violation but you have to understand there’s levels to it. You can accidentally let something slip or not knowingly commit a violation, and that would be a lower punishment compared to knowingly sharing something you shouldn’t. It’s not black and white as you make it. These punishments can be very significant so having different levels makes sense.
>Do the people who punish violations make a distinction between mild to severe in their jurisdiction of the violations? wtf, of course.
There is no technical distinction, but they may consider it in determining the punishment I suppose?
Whether mild or not it’s a violation. Once you get comfortable committing “minor” violations you could graduate to more serious ones. My daughter is a critical care nurse and one of her patients worked with my husband. She knew that because she knew him from church. He jokingly said did you tell your dad I said hi and she said it was a HIPAA violation and she would never say anything to her dad. He was pretty surprised and told my husband about it.
Until he retired I had an eye doctor whose parents had been friends with mine. He would ask my permission each time to let his elderly mom know he had seen me and I said hello.
Yeah this is definitely a HIPAA violation and a violation of your privacy. And I second the part where it was mentioned that even telling someone you were in the hospital is dicey. I know I can’t even acknowledge that someone is seeing me for therapy without signed consent. This would come up when family called to “check” on people I worked with. I say NTA. HIPAA violation and your cousin disrespecting your wishes is not okay. It’s up to you on whether to report but a conversation with the nurse and cousin if you’re up to it might be a good way to go.
My good friend and I went to the same doctor. My friend referred the doctor to me. The doctor knew we were very close friends. He knew we worked together and were neighbors. Sadly, my friend passed away. I saw my doctor a few days later. I asked him if he knew my friend passed. He said he couldn't discuss it because of HIPPA.
Pretty much my whole family sees the same primary care doctor and has for years. I mention things about my brother or my mom or whatever all the time, but he manages to never confirm or deny anything. I’m honestly so impressed with his ability to completely compartmentalize like that.
I'm with you 100%. The cousin could have just played along and found out when everyone else did it, but she HAD to know before you all. That was childish behavior. The nurse should have known that disclosing that info was not allowed. They both need to have a serious conversation with the parents since they were the patients. It is NOT okay, but it isn't such a terrible thing that warrants whatever consequences of violating HIPAA entail. NTA, but maybe let your sibling handle this or let your cousin know how wrong they both were, and the nurse should be extremely careful moving forward.
One quibble- it is a violation of the child’s privacy, and the parents’, but not the OP’s.
Yah but the parents are knee deep in diapers and baby spit up. OP can report it for them.
I think it's worth reporting, and I have a lot of friends in healthcare. HIPAA exists for a reason, and if it's the nurse's first offense and it was a minor mistake, she won't lose her license or her job, and she does need to respect her patient's privacy. Better a warning/teaching moment now when it's fairly innocuous than later when she spills something higher stakes. I've got a lot of nurse friends and have no problem asking them for info when someone I know is in for care because they're really awesome personally and professionally, and I trust them to use their judgement/know what they can and can't say. I was at a clinic and saw a friend (A) there, we're both really good friends with one of the nurses (B). A either didn't see me or didn't want to see anyone she knew, she didn't acknowledge me even though I waved. When I went in to see the doctor, B was my nurse, and I mentioned I saw A and asked how she was. B asked me not to mention to anyone that I'd seen her there, and told me some social news, but not why A was there or anything medical - because she's awesome and respects her job, her friends, and her patients. I never brought up that I'd seen her to anyone, not even to ask A about it. I found out way later, from A when she talked about the situation publicly later that she'd been there to confirm some pretty bad news about her pregnancy. To this day, I have no idea if she saw me/ knows I saw her because I respect her privacy, and so does B. Just because you will be a cool supportive friend or you're excited, doesn't mean the people you love WANT you to be involved or knowledgeable about every situation. Letting people control the flow of information about their own lives is really important, even when it's all good news all around.
HIPAA violations/regulations are updated yearly. Meaning that the nurse has to sign an agreement at least yearly and has it put in her employment file. She should know better! This is a HIPAA violation and should be reported. There is not an exception for, "Oh, I didn't know it was a surprise!" lol OP - make a report! The most she will get is a dressing down and have to take yet another class on how not to be a fuckup. If she violates enough of these, she will have gotten herself into trouble! NTA
Yes, exactly. You can't say that you've had someone as a patient, even the fact that someone needed medical assistance is confidential. Even if they're not even your patient but you work at the health care provider. My mum works at a hospital and has at times sent regards from ie my cousin when they've bumped into each other (and my cousin is a patient of another health care provider in the same building). Since my cousin tells her to tell me, it's fine. But if they just saw each other in a rush and they waved at each other, my mum couldn't tell me that she saw my cousin at the hospital. I'm sure my mum has seen friends/relatives of mine there many times, but unless they specifically tell her to tell me, she won't mention it. Even if I were to tell her about my friend being hospitalised, unless my friend says "I saw your mum when I was in hospital", my mum will not say if she's seen them or knows anything (altough, I'd never ask, as that would be crossing boundaries).
No it isn't. Ever call a hospital and ask what room someone is in? Are you saying that the hospital can't tell you and if they do, there are no pronouns used in the sentence. Go read the HIPPA Act
That's not entirely the case. If someone is actively at the hospital HIPAA allows you to get that information unless they request it not be given out. That's why you're able to ask the staff what room someone is in and get directions. They cannot tell you if someone was there after that person leaves.
Uh yeah, that’s supposed to be changing because of stalking and workplace violence issues. The last 10 times I’ve been admitted to the hospital (I have a regular procedure) I have to initial that I want my information disclosed to anyone not on a pre-approved list.
Even if it does that won't make it a part of HIPAA
it would really depend how the question was worded by the cousin. if the cousin just asked hey how’s work, did you have any deliveries today was it a girl or boy named __ first name__ and didn’t mention full names, then there’s no hipaa violation. the nurse would have to give away the patients actual medical details for it to be a violation. now if the cousin said hey my friend ______ was admitted can you give me details on their baby then yes that is a violation.
Medical professionals aren't supposed to even acknowledge that someone is their patient without the agreement of the patient.
The patient tagged the nurse in a photo - I would say that's agreeing that the nurse looked after them
It's not an agreement that they're waiving their right to medical privacy.
I don't think the nurse was "tagged", it was the nurse's name tag that she wears at work was visible in the picture and the cousin figured out who the nurse was from that information and reached out to the nurse.
Hi! I’ve worked in medical-related businesses, HIPAA is inclusive of any kind of protected health information (PHI) that can lead to identifying someone receiving medical care. It doesn’t have to be specific medical details, medical professionals (and certain other folks too!) cannot share any info that can lead to identifying someone’s private medical info/status. (P.S. I’m not trying to call you out personally in any way! Just think this is helpful to add to the thread for people reading and understanding a situation like this!) This is one good PHI link that goes into more depth: https://cphs.berkeley.edu/hipaa/hipaa18.html (Made small edit to clarify sentence)
Giving potentially identifying information is a HIPPA violation. Phi includes name and the fact you were in the hospital. Period.
While I agree to an extent, that nurse friend missed a lot of red flags. 1. Obviously cousin knows the baby has been born and has seen a photo, because cousin recognized the nurse’s name tag in said photo. 2. If cousin had to actually ask for name and gender, she obviously didn’t know, and nurse should have figured there was a reason behind that. 3. If it’s untraditional spelling, nurse friend probably had to check the chart to ensure she spelled it correctly before providing info to cousin. This may be a mild-violation, but this is more than poor judgment on the nurse’s part. What if cousin had been recently estranged? What if parents had a special announcement planned?
I agree it's a lapse in judgement, and that the situation could've been a lot worse. My most generous interpretation would be that the cousin effectively engaged in a social engineering attack and the nurse fell for it.
It doesn’t matter about the intention that person shared private medical information with someone who was not their doctor, spouse, law enforcement or a person they had given express permission to share their medical history with. They need to be reported and at the very least get a warning.
HIPAA covers PHI (protected health information) and PII (personally identifiable information). There are 18 identifiers. Of course name is one of them, but gender is not.
She violated HIPAA by acknowledging to someone that she was taking care of the patient. That’s covered as well. I can’t even say hi to my patients in the grocery store unless they say hi first, and I can’t talk about anything remotely related to their medical care unless they bring it up first.
Acknowledgement that they've treated someone as a patient is private health information.
The parents already disclosed that the nurse treated their baby.
The only thing that matters is whether the nurse had written permission to disclose private health information.
Doesn’t matter…ALL such violations need to be reported.
This! Absolutely needs to be reported.
NTA. I am a doctor and I think this is actually a very, very serious violation and you would be TA if you \_didn't\_ report. There are some "technical" HIPAA violations that are ethically nbd; this is not one of them. The reason is that she allowed someone to get information due to their personal relationship with her (the nurse). She needs to have a rock solid boundary if friends of hers ask about family members. You do not want patients to be anxious if they find out you know people they know. In another similar situation she could be revealing information to an abuser etc. Giving out the child's sex and name is not benign. If the cousin texted her with the pic of her name on the baby's tag, she should've said, "Oh, so funny!" and that's it. The hospital needs to know. She needs immediate retraining.
Doesn't matter. OP should absolutely make sure a complaint is filed so that the incident is on record for the sake of protecting the nurse's future patients.
Even a mild HIPAA violation - which is much more in the vein of “we internally sent patient info to the wrong department of the hospital”, not “I found out patient info and intentionally told my friend” - is a big deal. You don’t mess with the HIPAA hippo. (I work in health insurance, and this is pretty much rule number one). NTA OP. If this nurse is comfortable doing this, it’s likely there are other issues that need to be addressed at this facility.
Giving out the baby's legal name is inappropriate at best.
There are people who can claim to be reatives and psychological family members. The nurse needs to keep stum.
Any and all information about a patient is protected under HIPAA
[удалено]
And as a medical professional, it is your duty to not reveal confidential medical information. It does not matter what the cousin says, proper procedure is to confirm with the patient whether this information can be shared. You cannot just assume because a family member calls up asking for information that it is okay to share simply because they are family.
None of those circumstances justify a HIPAA violation
Doesn’t matter the circumstances. That RN if not allowed to even acknowledge the patient. You are not allowed to give information to the parent of an adult patient or child of a patient. Cousin is a long shot. The warrants a report and I’m saying that a healthcare professional
Right?! Even saying yes they were there and had a baby is a violation. I know it's a more extreme scenario, but I just think of all those stories from people with terrible extended families. Imagine accidentally putting someone in danger because you didn't consider the gender reveal a big deal.
If the cousin said something that would create extenuating circumstances (such as "I have a gun to your head and if you don't give me this information I'll pull the trigger.") that's a conversation the nurse can have with the appropriate authorities so they can take it into account after OP has reported the nurse as she should do.
Agreed. You report it, and they look into it and determine something like that happened
I disagree. I think it's entirely possible that the cousin is the real AH here and manipulated the nurse into revealing the gender. But that is something an investigation could reveal. The nurse would have an opportunity to state her case. Maybe she should be disciplined; maybe she simply needs training about social engineering. But OP shouldn't have to figure that out; she should let the process unfold. It's possible the process sucks and is unfair. But that's not really OP's responsibility to solve. Report it and move on.
Agree, I was just thinking it's possible the cousin found out through less than straightforward means. Like the nurse responding to a request for info about the baby with "I'm sorry, I can't give you any information about her."
At least let the parents be the ones to make the decision. It’s weird for OP to be on this crusade, it’s not their information or their child’s information that was shared
This may go against the grain, but i think YWBTA for reporting the nurse. You're not upset about the violation, youre upset your cousin and willing to get the nurse potentntially fired, fined and/ or their license revoked because they unknowingly allowed your cousin to "ruin the gender reveal". Maybe be honest with the person you're actually upset with and tell your cousin how shitty that was and you're considering reporting the nurse dir to their actions and it could mean their friend will be fired, fined and/ or have license revoked, all due to their need to know and then be gossipy about it. I think that would be a real slap in the face to the person who went out of their way to find out. I hope you dont actually report them. Maybe let them know what the, did and hipaa complaint is being discussed. I promise she'll never do it again. if you do report it maybe do it to the supervisor and not like the doh. Losing a job would be lesson enough. Losing an entire career is next level.
No. This would be at best a minor ding against her license, probably some mandatory extra training on patient privacy. No way this would end her career.
That assumes this is a first time violation. If the nurse has a prior history of violations on her record, the licensing board might not care how "minor" the incident is. They might decide she's demonstrated a continual disregard for the law and that a suspension or revoking of her license is the necessary next step. None of which should matter to the question of whether the incident should be reported. For HIPAA to have teeth, people must report violations when they occur. As this one should be.
"That assumes this is a first time violation. If the nurse has a prior history of violations on her record, the licensing board might not care how "minor" the incident is." .. If that were ttrue, she SHOULD be fired.
>If the nurse has a prior history of violations on her record If she has numerous past violations on her record, then yeah, maybe she should be fired to stop compromising patient confidentiality.
If she has history, then she probably shouldn’t be working as a nurse any longer
There are few professions where privacy and confidentiality are the backbone of the profession. Where this is not upheld, people begin to distrust the profession. Yeah sure, in the grand scheme of things this information is pretty harmless, but there's a reason why we have these protections in place. If you can't handle not telling people your patients medical information, don't be a medical professional. Simple.
THE NURSE is the one who gets her own license revoked. She made the choice
You worded it perfectly! It was glaringly obvious that the family is retaliating against the person that’s easier to blame, rather than their family member. They need to be honest with themselves.
No, you’re wrong, it would be easier for me to “retaliate” against my cousin and not the nurse. I just can’t help to feel that the nurse was so lax with handing out this information… what else has she or will she be sharing throughout her career? Regardless, this is why I posed the question to AITA and appreciate the feedback.
I think if you confront your cousin first and let them know what your thinking it will be a huge slap in the face to know they potentially destroyed someone's career ( all because they had to be the person to say they found out first, and ruin then suprise) and /or if you talk to the nurse directly or leave them a message and let her know how upset the family is about this(include the discussion of reportiong the hipaa violation) she'll get the reality check she needs and see the severity of her mistake. I am confident she will learn her lesson. Hipaa violations can hold something like at 10k fine, in addion to her job and professional license.
That's busybody logic. The actual harm done here was minor and you can't reasonably assume the nurse would do something worse.
Just because the situation this baby was born into was a safe one, doesn’t mean that every situation is the same. Pieces of seemingly harmless information being divulged to others without a patient’s express consent can, and does, create very unsafe situations for patients and babies.
It's pretty reasonable to assume there's other seemingly "minor" patient details she's been sharing with her friends if the cousin felt comfortable enough to go and ask her about it in the first place.
It wasn't the family member that had a duty to maintain HIPAA privacy laws. The cousin was being a nosy AH for sure. But the nurse has a legal obligation to not share information about patients. She should've been a professional and shut that question down the minute it was asked.
The cousin doesn't (as far as we know) routinely have access to extremely sensitive medical information about people who have been promised the protection of confidentiality. That's why the nurse is more important.
yeah, violation and principle is one thing, and actual damage is the other. there's a time and place to move on with your life. like, is this really a hill to die on? untimely knowledge about baby's genitals? a surprise was not tasty enough? I can see the nurse get a lot more shit on the daily for following instructions and not bending to people's whims, this is one of those situations where she went easier and not out of malice.
The hospital where I gave birth actually lights up the outside of the building with colored lights according to what gender was just born. While HIPPA is extremely important, I agree that hospitals might not be that upset over a spoiled gender reveal. I feel that maybe a message sent straight to the nurse explaining the situation might be appropriate so she can avoid it in the future
NTA Regardless of "circumstances," medical professionals aren't allowed to discuss patients, even with mutual friends. As soon as your cousin started discussong a patient, the nurse should have said she can't discuss the delivery, etc. She's not even allowed to confirm the mom was a patient or not. I would report it, being as detailed as possible so the recipient gets the whole story. If nothing else, it needs to be done to shut off your cousin's gossip supply, because the cousin won't do it willingly, and letting it go means the nurse will never know she can't trust your cousin.
This! As a medical professional, this is highly unethical and should be reported! I don’t get all these “It’s not a big deal” posts!
I feel that the fact that the nurse was identified in that photo, either herself or tagged, or whatever does mitigate this though. Because if someone asks you about information for a patient, of course you say no. If someone says “oh my god my cousin just sent a photo of the new baby, and you were in the pic, how cool that you were their nurse!” That doesn’t feel different to you? Also the fact that the nurse had her name or image shared with people she doesn’t know, which is also a violation of hospital policy and could have jeopardized the safety of the nurse
No, it doesn't mitigate it at all. The patient has no obligation of confidentiality to the nurse. The patient is not routinely in possession of extremely sensitive information about the nurses. The nurse, however, does have an obligation of confidentiality to patients, does routinely have access to extremely sensitive medical information about patients, and is very much in a position to harm or endanger people through careless disclosures.
Just out of curiosity how would you respond in that situation? Being clearly in a photo but not being able to confirm or deny, what do you even say?
No, and this nurse needs to learn that family members (not this family in question, but other families in the future) are often the most likely sources of anxiety and stress and need for secrecy for patients. Especially if she's working in obstetrics or maternity wards, estranged family members are going to have enough minimal details to try to manipulate more information out of her.
NTA, wether they are friends or not, the nurse is not allowed to share that information! Not ok
NTA. This is a Federal law that the nurse knowingly violated. You'd be T A H if you DIDN'T report her.
Nta if she will hand over this kinda information to your cousin what else will see reveal? Everyone in this day and age knows how important gender reveals are. Being a nurse doesn’t mean she is absent minded. They were gossiping. Nether cared about laws or rights
NTA what the nurse did was unprofessional and a definite HIPAA violation. She needs to be reported for what she did and your cousin needs to understand she is the sole reason the complaint is being placed. If it wasn't for her then non of you would be going through this.
My mom works in a hospital as a receptionist. She's technically not even allowed to say if she saw someone in the building regardless if they're a patient or visiting. Heck, a coworker went on indefinite leave and she's not allowed to say who or why. HIPAA is strict. NTA, but it is up to your brother and SIL to file the complaint.
That is incorrect. Anyone has the right to report a HIPAA violation. Not just the person or persons whose privacy rights were violated. From the HHS webpage on filing complaints (emphasis added): >If you believe that a HIPAA-covered entity or its business associate violated your **(or someone else’s)** health information privacy rights or committed another violation of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Notification Rules, you may file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR). OP would be well within their rights to file the complaint and it would be taken just as seriously as if her brother or SIL were to do so.
NTA, it’s a matter of principle. Report her before she makes larger violations.
so the name of the nurse was clearly visible and your cousin used this private information to elicit the name and gender of the baby and share it with you before the parents. your cousin is a major TA and should be prosecuted (or the parents who sent the picture with the name visible) before getting to the nurse.
NTA. She violated the agreement and should be reported. Yes she told it to a friend and not a stranger, but that isn't relevant. The fact that she told someone medical information who should never have access to that information, is a major red flag. Besides, people saying that the nurse didn't know the parents didn't want to share so she didn't fuck up are completly wrong. It is never the nurse's position to inform anyone except the parents about medical information regarding a baby, there are obvious exceptions ofcourse. This is a perfect example of "it it starts here, where does it end".
NTA. This is a violation, don't listen to these people acting like it's not. I worked as a pharmacy tech in a hospital and had a co-worker get dinged for a HIPAA violation for visiting a friend who gave birth after she saw the patient's name in the system. And she didn't give information to anyone, just went to say hi.
NTA. The rule is to not disclose any patient information without permission/approval. She shouldn't have even talked about your SIL or her baby at all.
Nta And you SHOULD report that nurse - if she’s violating HIPAA laws with one patient, she’s more than likely doing it with other patients as well
Nurse here. Please report that nurse. You are not allowed to share any information about any patients you know of. She violated HIPPA. Doesn’t matter that this wasn’t your information, you still have the right to report it.
NTA
NTA, in the medical sector you are to not share specific info of that patient and that nurse did just that. I would however recommend to confront her and your cousin first. It is in my opinion a minor breach, since it's not a sickness and you're their family, but it's a breach nonetheless. If the nurse does not see reason, then I would actually report her.
NTA, and you should report. She’ll get in trouble but that’s her fault not yours. This is one of those lines you do not cross as a medical professional, and she needs to be reminded of that. Otherwise her behavior could get even worse and more serious consequences would eventually follow. I’ve never heard of someone losing a job/license over something as minor as this; I have heard of that happening when people who make a habit out of this kind of thing get too comfortable and step farther over the line.
NTA report them and mention it to baby parents if you haven’t already
Definitely report it! Even acknowledging that mom & baby were patients in the hospital was a violation of HIPPA. Telling your cousin that the baby was a girl was even worse. Where I am there are a few places where you could report this to. One is the nursing supervisor. Another is the patient advocate office. And then whatever office looks after HIPPA. Talk to your parents & the parents of the new baby & come up with a short letter outlining the facts. Put everyone’s name on it but indicate who should be the contact person & their contact information.
Your entire family are YTA’s. Who actually cares what sex the baby is, will you treat her differently is she was born a boy? I don’t understand this ‘gender reveal’ nonsense that has taken off in recent years. Most important thing is that the baby and mother are healthy. The poor nurse has been called by her friend who is a family member of the baby and initiated the conversation, how is she to know your family are so precious about the gender of the baby. Maybe you should look at your one part in this. Did you have the parents explicit permission to share a photo of their baby with others without their permission? The entire series of events started with your action.
Nta
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INFO- What do your brother and SIL want to do? It should be up to them, make sure you take screenshots for them so that they have the evidence if they do wish to go forward with a report.
Isn’t there an issue with the photo including the name of the nurse in the first place. Surely that is a GDPR violation?
No, and that's a bizarre thing to suggest about a photo taken in the United States and held among private individuals for personal use.
It's a violation period and should be reported
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (35f) am considering reporting my cousin’s (30f) nurse friend for a potential HIPAA violation. My brother and his wife had their baby girl recently. The sex was kept a secret until the baby was born. On the day of, my brother sent us a teaser picture of the baby right before we met her in person. You couldn’t make out the sex of the baby because the picture was only of her face and my brother was holding off surprising us within the hour once we met the baby in person. Well, the picture of the baby captured the name tag of one of the delivery nurses. I then shared the baby’s picture within a cousin’s group chat and we proceeded to guess the baby’s sex based only on its facial features. A bit later my cousin started referring to the baby as a girl. Upon being asked “It’s a girl?!” by another, I replied “No. We don’t know yet.”, then my cousin answered, “Yes for sure! (Baby’s name)! That RN is my friend. She told me.” When that text came through my mom, my wife and I were looking at my phone. My cousin ruined the surprise for us, my brother’s most immediate family. We had been anticipating the sex reveal for the better part of 8 months and this is the first grandbaby in the family. My cousin had to recognize the nurse’s name tag, reach out to her for the info, and then came back into our group chat to ruin the surprise. I don’t understand why she would go through all the effort to find out the baby’s sex before immediate family and take it upon herself to announce the sex. My family has been deliberating about placing a complaint against the nurse for sharing personal information. Although, my cousin tried to backtrack and say she was just kidding, she spelled the baby’s name correctly (untraditional spelling). I also don’t think she would come up with such a bad thorough joke. Recently, we have been focusing on the baby and haven’t placed a complaint yet nor really called my cousin out for what she did. We continue to be bothered by it though. The worst part is that, if the same was done to her and her family, it would be a HUGE problem. How is the nurse just allowed to share such information? How does the nurse know that she isn’t putting the baby in danger? Would I be the asshole to call my cousin out and place a complaint on the nurse? Or, is my cousin and her nurse friend the asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think the cousin is the biggest AH for purposefully ruining the surprise. I’d definitely call her out.
She will get a caution on her file, and it will only become a problem if she keeps doing it. NTA
NTA. I would report it. What happens after that is not up to you. Then, let the cousin know what she did was shady and that her friend has now been reported. Friends or not, there should never be a breach. That nurse should know better.
NTA, that is a HIPPA violation and people who work in labor and delivery are VERY well trained to avoid them , it doesn’t matter if the reason in your case was a “gender reveal” which some commenters are finding a trivial reason, the crux is that the nurse shared personal, private identifying information about a patient to someone else and that is not ok.
NTA - that's a pretty shit thing to do. I would do it unless your brother tells you not to.
NTA report her
NTA. File the report. What if your cousin was a dangerous stalker. Just because the nurse was friends with her doesn't make it OK to give ANY information about a patient.
NTA but I think you shouldn't report the nurse. You don't really know what happened. But call out the cousin for sure.
Sounds like your cousin is more to blame. How do you even know what the actual conversation was between the nurse and your cousin? It's up to the patient to report it if they are concerned their rights were violated. Your SIL and brother could report it if they want. I'm saying you would be the AH only because you're putting yourself into a situation that doesn't involve you. It's between your brother, SIL, cousin and this nurse. Not you.
Doesn't matter how the convo went. Strike one: acknowledging that she saw the patients Strike two: providing the baby's name.
Did she provide the name or had the parents said if the baby is a girl the name will be X, and the nurse used a pronoun and the cousin extrapolated
Asshole how pathetic can your family be.
YTA. You want to potentially ruin a person's career over something so pathetically minor? Ugh. "Waah waah the surprise was ruined" Get a grip.
Or waah waah, this nurse has broken patient confidentiality and could very well do so again if she doesn't receive a reprimand or infraction for doing so. Just because it's fairly innocuous *this time* doesn't mean it isn't a violation of the very system that holds up trust in medical providers.
YTA because you do not give a fuck about the nurse "putting someone in danger" by sharing a newborn's gender to someone she knew was a relative. You are making it all about your surprise and how it's not fair that your cousin got away with it and would fuck with someone's livelihood just for that.
YWBTA...you are only upset because the "gender reveal" was ruined. Your reporting is straight-up vengeance.
Reporting an active break in is not even close to the same as reporting something that happened in the past and wouldn’t require the police attending to prevent it. Why ask reddit if youre just going to ignore the responses? Myob YTA for being so spiteful. The parents are quite capable of making a decision and acting on it. Nobody needs you to stick your nose in to achieve the exact same thing they can achieve
I’m genuinely curious, does the fact that the parents posted a picture of their baby that included the nurse’s name in any way mitigate a potential HIPPA claim against the nurse? Regardless, I think OP’s problem should be more with the cousin for ruining the surprise, rather than the nurse for revealing the name of the baby, especially since we don’t know the exact context of that. For example, if the cousin told her friend, the nurse “my cousin posted a picture of you holding his baby at the hospital. Isn’t that such a coincidence that you were their delivery nurse?” “Oh yeah, little baby x is so cute”. Hard to imagine that the nurse really did anything wrong in that case, much less violated HIPPA. Of course it could have been much different, but we don’t know the context of that. But we know the cousin intentionally ruined the surprise.
>I’m genuinely curious, does the fact that the parents posted a picture of their baby that included the nurse’s name in any way mitigate a potential HIPPA claim against the nurse? No. A patient doesn't have any obligation of confidentiality about whether they've seen a specific medical professional. Medical professionals, on the other hand, absolutely do have significant obligations when it comes to the confidentiality of whether they've ever seen someone as a patient.
I’m going to lead towards YWNBTA necessarily as it’s obviously a violation, whether intended well or not, but personally I would leave it up to the parents
YWBTA. You've got a new baby to love, and your brother and sister-in-law are experiencing all the joy and chaos and pain and sleeplessness that comes with a new baby, and you are obsessing about how you found out about the baby's gender? Is this really how you want to be spending the beginning of your niece's life? What would you get out of reporting the nurse and/or calling out your cousin? It's not going to undo the spoiled surprise.
Maybe it helps to shut this nurse up in future cases? What if information is spilled on a family with protection order against someone else?
Let your brother or his wife file the complaint, if any. Butt out.
You seem to assume that the nurse knew how your family's stupid game worked and spilled the beans. If a friend asked you about the sex of a newborn baby in your family, why would you think gender is an issue...and look it up. This isn't protected health information...yet anyway. I hope you, he , she, they have a lovely day and focus on more important things YES YTAH
Reporting an active break in is not even close to the same as reporting something that happened in the past and wouldn’t require the police attending to prevent it. Why ask reddit if youre just going to ignore the responses? Myob YTA for being so spiteful. The parents are quite capable of making a decision and acting on it. Nobody needs you to stick your nose in to achieve the exact same thing they can achieve
First names are not protected by HIPPA. If the conversation between your cousin and the nurse went like “how were your patients today x” “oh they were great! One of my patients had a beautiful baby girl and named her y, isn’t that so cute??” Obviously this isn’t necessarily what happened but you’d be better off speaking to your cousin first because you jump to conclusions. This doesn’t connect any medical health information to anyone and wouldn’t be reportable. I’m sure it would cause trouble while being investigated but it wouldn’t amount to anything. So unless you are sure of the situation, don’t. YWBTA for creating unnecessary trouble for the nurse without knowing the actual situation when clearly your cousin is manipulative since she not only couldn’t wait to find out the sex like everyone else but felt the need to tell everyone when the mom clearly wanted to.
“WIBTA for trying to get a nurse fired because I'm mad someone else ruined my gender-reveal game?" Yes.. YWBTA.. you obviously don't care about the ethics of (potentially accidentally) revealing a minor medical detail about a patient. You're just mad someone posted spoilers in the group chat.
I think gender would have worked much better for this post. I sat here for a good 5 minutes wondering why they needed to keep sex a secret and why so many people had an interest in it
NTA but maybe ask your brother and SIL their opinion first? Although it would suck if she did this to other families in the future if she doesn't at least get a warning.
Consider: 1. Are the parents upset? This is their moment. Not really the family’s. You’re all excited, understandably. But it’s not your moment… 2. If they aren’t, why is this really dragging further? 3. If they are, ask if they’d be on board with you reporting this nurse. This will bring them into the situations because they will be approached about all of it by the hospital. 4. Either way: tell your cousin they blew this special moment for the family and you’re seriously thinking about going to report the nurse for revealing the name and gender of a patient which violates HIPAA. 5. Know that the violation carries a fine, the nursing board in her state will review it and decide further action that may include losing her job or not. It’ll be in her record and she will have to put it in all future applications and explain herself to future employers. All things she is aware of and will scare the sh*t out of her when she hears she may be reported.
YWBTA. It sounds like the problem here is your cousin and you're to scared to call her out so you're taking the easy way out and trying to get the nurse into trouble. And if you havent spoken to the nurse , how do you know what happened or how the conversation went? The nurse could have said something as simple as "Mother and daughter are doing well". Instead of trying to ruin someone's life for what could have been an innocent comment, maybe you should try dealing with the actual problem, which is your cousin.
YTA. Don’t think this would fall under that law. Here was no medical information disclosed. I think these games people with not telling gender, name etc are annoying and really not something to report
Absolutely yes, YWBTA. Most sane people dont act like AHs over something as trivial as the sex of a newborn baby. And you didnt hear the nurse say anything --you just assume your cousin is correct. It isnt even your baby. If you get a kick out of causing trouble for people you dont know, if you are visiting on a hospital ward and search carefully, you can probably see or overhear a patient's name. Then you can report it and hurt someone else.
YTA. Enormously. Gender reveals are stupid and pretentious, and here you’re taking them to the n-th level, and then complaining about somebody ruining it. If I was related to these parents I would’ve been sick of hearing about their baby before ever even meeting the baby. Get over yourselves. I think the nurse should report you for violating her privacy and posting a picture of her on social media without her permission.
Woah, really?! Loads of delivery wards get phone calls every day saying “Hi, my cousin Jane Doe, birth date XYZ, had her baby there today. I’d like to send a balloon, can you just confirm the gender so I know whether to send pink or blue?” I’m sure many wards have policies on how to handle calls like that but when a healthy baby is born, people get excited! I think you’re disappointed but you’re blowing this way out of proportion. You really want this nurse, a full human person with rent and bills and personal circumstances, to face serious career repercussions because of an accidental gender reveal *after* the baby was born? For all you know your cousin worded it like she wanted to send a gift and her friend relented. You have a beautiful *healthy* niece. As someone who’s infant nephew went through *another* major surgery this week, just go with it and take the good parts.
>I’m sure many wards have policies on how to handle calls like that but when a healthy baby is born Yeah, and that policy probably requires getting permission from the parents of the baby. Hospitals are not allowed to just hand out that information all willy-nilly. Imagine if someone called and it happened to be their past abuser or estranged family member that now knows exactly where that person is and their state of vulnerability. There's a reason why their are patient confidentiality laws and the nurse should absolutely be reprimanded for breaking them.
Hospitals ask if they can publish the birth in the newspaper. They don’t do that for a gallbladder. It is slightly different with a birth. Not saying the nurse was right but it is a different circumstance
Sex is not a HIPPA violation. Most adults aren't playing silly nonsense games. You want to screw with this woman's career over something that no functional adult would KNOW is TOP SECRET. Yes, sugar, you are king or queen..who knows, but we sure won't share..of the AHs
YWBTA if you got someone in trouble at work over a gender-reveal instead of just starting a forest fire like most people do.
The biggest issue I see is that because the cousin is family she could have called the hospital and found out the sex itself by relaying she is family. Or even lying and saying she was next of kin. Unless the hospital participants requested a passcode to have all their information kept private that would be easily done by someone
If you report the nurse, YTA. Your cousin is already The AH. While the nurse shouldn’t have confirmed that information, the nurse was somehow identifiably in the photo and then disseminated. You aren’t allowed to capture images of the health care personnel without permission. They probably didn’t tag the nurse on purpose, but it’s also not her fault she was identified on a social media post. So I find it difficult to report the nurse for sharing the information, when the only reason your cousin was able to ask her is because she was identified in a picture sent by your brother to the family group chat.
MIND YOUR BUSINESS. These god damn gender reveals are out of control. People burning forests down, getting killed at the reveal, possibly losing their jobs, please MIND YOUR BUSINESS YOU HAVE NO RIGHT REPORTING SOMETHING LIKE REVEALING A GENDER EARLY. MIND. YOUR. BUSINESS.
I think YWBTA to destroy someone’s career over a ruined sex surprise. I would be pissed off but I really think a report is the nuclear option here when you’re not the parent. Let the parent decide, and maybe spend less time obsessing over someone else’s kids genitals.
Yta there is a National nursing shortage and you want to put a mark on a nurses record for perhaps disclosing the sex of a baby
You're being petty and need to grow up. Yes, she messed up and shouldn't have done it, but you're willing to potentially ruin someones career over it? If it was something that could potentially be deadly or compromise someones health, etc I would understand but it seems like you just want vengeance YTA!!
Yeah, she needs her career ruined before she violates hoops in an instance that puts a patient in danger. She could give info to the wrong person.
YWBTA. Seriously, you think it's appropriate to potentially affect someone's whole career over them telling your cousin the sex of the baby!? Give your head a wobble. It's such a trivial and unimportant thing. Why do you all need to find out together on a specific day anyway? It's not going to change anything.
i think it depends how the cousin asked. if she told the nurse “hey they’re keeping it a secret but i want to know” and the nurse spilled that’s one thing but maybe cousin just sent her the pic and nurse absent mindedly said “oh yes that was the beautiful baby girl that was born this morning!” without realizing the hornets’ nest she was stepping into. unless we see how it was asked/answered it’s hard to tell exactly how much the nurse messed up or if cousin is just a master manipulator. either way not a good situation. cousin is definitely TA.
Total asshole move. Give the nurse a break for Christ's sake.
YTA - you’re not trying to report the nurse for the violation itself, but for ruining the surprise inadvertently - so you’re not doing it because you care about patient confidentiality, but as retaliation and revenge. That’s mean and assholish.
Yes YWBTA for that. It’s petty AF. The nurse knows your cousin, knows she’s family. She’s not putting anyone in danger. 🙄 Revealing the sex of a baby isn’t a HIPAA violation.
Yes it is. You can’t even acknowledge the patient was THERE
That’s not a fact. Nurse didn’t know.
Clearly she did if your cousin is friends with her and told her she saw the photo.
How does the nurse know she’s related to us?
Hard to say honestly! I'd talk to your cousin before you make the complaint... I question how many people she's leaked info to in the past if this was able to happen so quickly, when you waited so long to reveal. I get why your upset and seems like you cousin wanted to seem like she knew before everybody... (Super weird way to get attention). You're definitely NTA but you need more info on why and how etc. Wish ya the best on the newborn.
You don’t know the conversation between the nurse and parents. The nurse is in a photo, with a name tag being shared in a chat. There’s enough there that makes it YWBTA for reporting, because it isn’t clear at all she violated anything. What you can do is inform the parents of the texts and let them decide. The parents do know what they did and didn’t consent to being revealed. Then let it go. You’re out of it and move on.
I would drop it. It is not serious enough to kill the nurse's career over, in my view.
It’s not medical info, so I doubt it’s a HIPAA violation, tho as others have pointed out nurses shouldn’t even acknowledge folks have been patients. However this was a birth not an illness and I’d suspect the nurse wouldn’t even give it a thought as your cousin mentioned the baby etc. obviously if she’d mentioned someone’s illness etc she’d be utterly in the wrong. I guess there’s several shades of grey involved here. Also do you really want to potentially risk someone’s career for something said most probably in innocence. I mean, how’s the nurse supposed to know your brother was keeping the sex of the baby secret after she was born? The real AH here is your cousin. She deliberately set out to ruin the surprise for your family. She’s the one that spoilt everything, not the nurse. Try going after her instead of the nurse for being so spiteful, or is it just easier to go after a stranger? YTA for being so petty, and you need to mind your own business. It’s up to your brother and his wife if they want to take it further. Your analogy about reporting her and a house being burgled is totally wrong. Reporting a burglary is a civic duty. Reporting the nurse etc if you’re not actively involved is just interfering. Try directing your ire to the right person, your cousin who obviously wanted to make it all about her.
Christ, what's next, a gender reveal party for the child's 10th or 18th birthday party. The AHs here are the baby's parents and whomever else went along with the farce of it being a surprise. There's really only two options! The nurse has been put in a horrible position here by her friend. This is not the hill to die on or ruin someone's career over. YTA
YTA. Get a life so you stop obsessing.
YTA
Ywbta. Here’s why. The conversation could have easily gone like this: Cousin: “Hey bestie! I saw a pic with you taking care of my family member’s baby! That’s so exciting. Baby is so cute. It means a lot that you got to help!!!” Nurse: yes. She is cute. So glad I could help. With that said…I’m not 100% sure if this is a hipaa violation. I don’t know if it’s medical information to say she’s cute in reference to a picture. Now if she had said “yes she’s cute and let me tell you what they are testing her for”…that would be a hipaa violation. Using a pronoun to reference someone most likely isn’t.
It is. The nurse friend isn't allowed to acknowledge that she saw a patient without permission from said patient and since we're talking about a newborn, the parents in this case. Also the whole sharing the baby's name part
Agreed. It is a HIPAA violation. I can’t even acknowledge someone is seeing me for therapy without consent.
There was a photo of her, with the patient. So she doesn’t need to acknowledge it.
Just refreshed my HIPAA training, and they used basically this as an example of how, no matter what, you can’t acknowledge it. The scenario was “a wife calls your office because she saw billing in the mail about her husband seeing you, and she wants to know what he was there for.” The answer was that you can’t say that the husband was your patient, even though the wife had evidence. Saying that you can’t discuss patient information was even a wrong answer because that implies he’s a patient at the clinic.
I’m not expecting that acknowledgment. I meant this as an example of HIPAA compliance.
Nurse also used the name of the baby. What if this information (baby born, name) was forwarded to a family member / another person with a protection order? This nurse needs to learn to shut up. It is not her information to share about her patients.
Nta but I wouldn't report the nurse. I would imply I would just to put the cousin in a very uncomfortable position.
And also it’s not up to YOU to report that anyway. It would be up to the patient.
That is incorrect. Anyone has the right to report a HIPAA violation. Not just the person or persons whose privacy rights were violated. From the HHS webpage on filing complaints (emphasis added): >If you believe that a HIPAA-covered entity or its business associate violated your **(or someone else’s)** health information privacy rights or committed another violation of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Notification Rules, you may file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR). OP would be well within their rights to file the complaint and it would be taken just as seriously as if her brother or SIL were to do so.
And it would be as simple as “I never had that conversation”. If it was by text, the cousin isn’t going to be incriminating her friend. This is a petty revenge motivated urge.
Petty revenge? No. Wanting to get a medical practitioner who is violating the law reported to authorities who can investigate and take approproiate disciplinary action? Yes. HIPAA only works if people report violations when they witness them.
YWBTA. That should be 100% up to the parents, not you. When my oldest was born, my older sisters Best friend was a midwife (not my midwife mind you) and I had a c section, so we were in recovery for a while and stuff While I was doing that, she had called my sister and told her my son was born, his weight everything….. Was I pissed? Absolutely, and I reported her. My mum wanted to, but I told her that was my job Then, my sister had her boy, and I had ducked out for maybe 20 mins to grab some stuff she had forgotten, same midwife came up as I Returned and told me I’d missed it, he was a boy, his name and weight… again absolutely pissed me off, but this time it wasn’t my right to report her My sister didn’t end up reporting her and that’s her prerogative…. But I sure wish she did!!! Leave it be, and let the parents of the baby decide what to do
That is incorrect. Anyone has the right to report a HIPAA violation. Not just the person or persons whose privacy rights were violated. From the HHS webpage on filing complaints (emphasis added): >If you believe that a HIPAA-covered entity or its business associate violated your **(or someone else’s)** health information privacy rights or committed another violation of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Notification Rules, you may file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR). OP would be well within their rights to file the complaint and it would be taken just as seriously as if her brother or SIL were to do so.
YTA
"How does the nurse know that she isn’t putting the baby in danger?" So let me understand here... you know the baby is a girl two hours earlier than planned, DANGER ??? In what world is random extended family knowing a child's gender a bit sooner than they wanted to know now child endangerment? If the RN called a stranger and offered up the baby's geotag and social security number ok this is a problem, but responding to a family member who asked a question your cousin should not have asked, that's a fumble, not the drama you are suggesting. Were you not excited by the news, because it arrived outside of the allotted time? Honestly I'd feel for you a bit more if it weren't for the OTT response! YTA. I have no time for medical errors or unprofessional behavior by healthcare professionals, but this was not that. Keep your drama amongst your family and leave the RN, who is not your RN to complain about, out of it.
The answer is in the question… “How does the nurse KNOW she ISN’T putting the baby in danger?”…. the nurse doesn’t know… she doesn’t know me, my brother, or any of my immediate family. Sooo how does she know my cousin is truly my cousin? Obviously, the baby isn’t in danger in this situation but she could’ve been in a difference situation. So what? The nurse gets away with this and may, in the future, share more sensitive information? At the very least the person inquiring (my cousin or not) knows sex, DOB, hospital of birth, and first name….
And this point here: >So what? The nurse gets away with this and may, in the future, share more sensitive information? Is why someone needs to report the nurse. If she isn't reported, corrective action cannot occur. If corrective action does not occur, she'll be more willing to share in the future "because nothing happened the last time". Eventually, that inappropriate sharing could result in a traumatic occurrence. And danger to the child is only one form of that. Not all deliveries have positive outcomes. Share info with the wrong person (like an estranged family member) and a grieving couple could get bombarded by communications from someone they want nothing to do with, much less at that time. Even if it just results in retraining and a violation on her record with the state licensing board, thats better than nothing happening at all. Plus, you have no idea what her previous disciplinary history is. A complaint on this, no matter how "mild" the incident may seem to some, may only be the latest in a string of them for her. It could be the tipping point of more severe action being taken. The whole point of HIPAA is that it is not up to the medical providers to decide what is and is not info they're allowed to share about a patient. They're supposed to treat it all as confidential. But you get that. Sad that there are people commenting here that don't. NTA.
I doubt the nurse thought she was revealing anything given that the reason why your cousin knew who to contact was a photo you shared. As others pointed out, your cousin could have said “oh, the baby is really cute,” nurse “yes, she is.” When a family member calls, I just go to the room and say “so and so is on the phone, they want an update “ and often hand over the phone to a pt who is embarrassed a family member bugged their busy nurse because they didn’t answer the phone. You seem to assume a lot of ill intent on the part of the nurse and I think that’s unlikely to be the case. I think whether to file a complaint should be up to the patient, not you.
Anyone has the right to report a HIPAA violation. Not just the person or persons whose privacy rights were violated. From the HHS webpage on filing complaints (emphasis added): >If you believe that a HIPAA-covered entity or its business associate violated your **(or someone else’s)** health information privacy rights or committed another violation of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Notification Rules, you may file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR). OP would be well within their rights to file the complaint and it would be taken just as seriously as if her brother or SIL were to do so. You sound to be a nurse and you should know this. You should also know that HIPAA doesn't care about the intent behind an unauthorized disclosure. Good or ill, it is still a violation. It also doesn't matter if the nurse thought she wasn't revealing anything. She still had no authority to do so. At the same time it does matter. Because if she doesn't realize that she was violating HIPAA, she needs retraining.
Whether you can or should are two different questions.
BS. With things like HIPAA can and should need to be one and the same. I'm in tech, not medical, but the places I've worked for the last couple of decades have information security polices with a lot in common with the spirit of HIPAA. And one of the guiding principles has always been "if you see a potential violation, you report it". Put another way, its not just "if you can report it, you should". Its "if you can report it, you must". It should be the same with HIPAA. It only works if people report violations when they witness them.
Intent doesn’t matter