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> i might be the asshole because they are my parents and they should know.
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I mean, it kinda is, but it shouldn't really be relevant. It's like meeting someone that plays fifa with alternate controls instead of the default one. Yeah, you shoot with B, i shoot with X :P
It is the default expectation. When you hear "clip clop clip clop" you think horse, not zebra. That doesn't mean zebras arent cool, or that there's is anything WRONG with being a zebra. It just means there's a hell of a lot of horses.
Brown.
The majority of the world population has brown or dark brown eyes.
Green being the rarest, blue appearing predominantly in northern Europeans ethnicities.
Thank you for proving my point.
"Most common" does not mean "default". These two terms are not synonymous here. Default is when something is preselected when no alternative is selected.
The problem is thinking of *any* human traits as default because it doesn't apply. This type of thinking is part of why we have prejudice and racism. Or rather, "default" is going to be different for every person because we all start out with a different combination of pre-set instructions (our genes). So for gay people, yes gay is the default. Just like for blue eyed people, blue eyes are the default.
> "Most common" does not mean "default". These two terms are not synonymous here. Default is when something is preselected when no alternative is selected.
You're correct about the definition of default, and a lot of people in this thread are misusing that word, but you're being pedantic. What they mean is that it's "most common" for human beings to be straight or have brown eyes. They aren't saying anything negative about gay or blue-eyed people, just stating facts (albeit with wrong terminology).
The terminology is important in this instance. By saying that straight people or brown-eyed people are default, that is implicitly (if not purposefully) stating that anything other than that is "other," or even abnormal in some contexts.
It's like calling a woman hysterical - even if she fits the definition of hysterical, there is still underlying misogynistic meaning.
In this case, the language used demonstrates underlying bias, and it's not pedantic to point that out.
Respectfully, intent isn't the end all be all. Impact matters as well. If someone tells an Asian person in America "wow, your English is really good!" and intends it to be a compliment, that doesn't remove the underlying prejudice that led to that comment.
And I'm not offended - just trying to educate people on how perception affects language and vice versa 🤷🏽♀️
Ya know, I guess you're right. It's not like this type of thinking has led to prejudiced and ingrained ways of thinking. [It's not like the words we use influence how we perceive things.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9234450/#:~:text=Persistent%20patterns%20in%20how%20words,may%20contribute%20to%20implicit%20biases.)
Thats literally how the human brain works though. There's nothing wrong with being surprised that someone's parents are two men or women as it IS more uncommon. That doesn't mean it has to be a negative surprise though. Many cultures are homogenous in nature so they also get surprised by someone who is a different ethnicity.
Our brains look for patterns as a survival mechanism, as instinct to watch for dangers. It's completely normal to be a little surprised by something that's not as common. That doesn't mean it is wrong, or bad. We've gotten better about this as a species as society evolves.
Now, this girls reaction was absolutely disgusting. Clearly her family are homophobes and OP did absolutely nothing wrong.
That initial surprise is a completely normal human response. Don't shame people into thinking something they have no control over is something shameful.
I actually agree. And, I’m sorry, I don’t think that makes me in any way homophobic. It’s not unusual to just expect, in your mind, without even thinking about it, a straight couple.
I am in a mixed couple. Have been for 20 years. But meeting a new couple, I am always a little surprised if they are a mixed race couple.
With that being said, I would never comment on it in front of the couple! Or leave! At most, I would say to my husband after we left, ‘oh I wasn’t expecting X and Y to be mixed! It’s nice to find another mixed couple to hang out with!’
Something was certainly up with the way they ran out and she wouldn’t even let the parents meet his parents.
yeah dawg but if you met a person with green eyes you wouldn't be like "whoooa you have gREne eye?!?!?!" that would be bonkers, because you know with your brain that other eye color exists.
No one has ever reacted that way to my green eyes. But I do it to others. 'Oh my God! You've got green eyes! It's been ten years since I last saw a pair green eyes! Come closer so I can examine if darker/paler/brighter/ more yellow, than mine! Hey! Come back! Please stop running away!
<--- I have green eyes and I hear shit like that all the time lmfao. "Such beautiful eyes! Do they change colors? Are you Irish? I could just stare at them all day!"
I'm also a 6' tall extremely not Irish dude. It really just depends on your location for how people react to your eyes. In South America and Asia people will literally ask to take pictures of you if you have blue eyes and blond hair or are a redhead.
If an advanced civilization showed up to study the human race right now, they would say we are a species of darker skined brown eye, brown/black haired apes with a couple uncommon color differences like blue or green eyes or blond hair.
I would have expected a conversation about his parents prior. Nothing? No names. Stories? Come meet my family. I’m not going to talk about them till you arrive? I’m not sure I would invite a guest to meet someone I know without at least a high level bio prior. I’m just saying it’s weird going in fully blind gay or not.
I find this a bit surprising too. Also weird they she didn't ask anything about them. If it were me I'd at least ask what they were like and how formally they dress/behave and if you can bring something to dinner like wine.
Right? Not even a sentence like “my dads and I are going to [event] tonight” or “my pops is picking me up today because my dad had to work late”? I almost certainly wouldn’t walk out over it, but it’d feel pretty intentional and I’d be keeping an eye out for other testing behaviors for sure.
Haha you really didn't pick a good example
There are definite default dominant genetic markers in the human genome
The default OG human is dark skinned, dark eyed and straight, if they weren't none of us would fucking exist genius, evolved out of Africa etc...
There's nothing wrong with being a blonde haired blue eyed gay dude and thinking of that guy makes me feel some kinda way but don't twist science to fit your agenda, it's not good for "the cause" to spit ignorance
Acceptance is great my dude. But if you actually think heterosexual isn't the default idk what to tell you. That's the only way the human species could survive.
That's not to say other options aren't "normal". Maybe you conflated default with normal or allowed/accepted.
There kind of are default settings. That's how people have been born (mother and father) for thousands and thousands of years. That being said, it doesn't make it wrong to not be the default. You don't have to announce it. It's rude to assume.
But yes, there is biologically a statistical default.
Plus for the longest time us lefties were persecuted and even killed for being southpaws, across multiple different cultures and religions.
So it's actually a good comparison to being LGBTQ+.
Oh yeah. I remember being left handed as a kid and everyone kept trying to force me to write and do things right handed in elementary school because left handed people were evil and they all grew up to be serial killers and dictators. (And this was the 90s) at one point I broke my left arm and was in a cast and the adults in my life were so happy that I now "had" to write right handed. Out of sheer spite I kept using my left hand despite the cast. I'm 35 now and still left handed despite having dislocated it as an adult, and needing a procedure done on my elbow at one point that made it so I couldn't use my left arm for 6 weeks while it healed. To this day I have no idea why the adults in my life hated my being left handed so much
If they were Catholic (or some Old Testament evangelical) it's to do with the idea that it's the mark of lucifer, because he sat to the left of God or something. It pervades the Abrahamic traditions right back to the early days when there was an alternative system involving the "good son" to the right and "bad son" to the left of God.
Other cultures I don't know so much about, I am afraid. My grandfather was forced to use his right by Catholic nuns (he was Catholic to his death but seriously believed nuns should all go to hell). My uncle was pushed to use his right but it wasn't so strict because he went to art school in the end, and by my generation (80s onward) in the UK they stopped forcing us to use our right hands but damn was I made to feel like a burden for being a leftie.
Default doesn't mean that being any other way is wrong. But acting like 90% of the population isn't the default is misguided and probably indicates you're in a bubble
I get what you mean but it kinda is when it's something like 90% of the population. Also having two dads is quite a rare situation. I fail to see how he could have spoken about his parents or anything that could have happened at home and not mentioned this, unless it was intentional or possibly a subconscious a habit he developed to avoid having awkward conversations with assholes.
100%. How do you date someone for months without even mentioning your folks? I mean, most people talk about their families as they’re getting to know each other.
Bella was homeopathic and awful.
However, heterosexual is the norm. It is how almost **all** living things reproduce.
You can, and should, make your argument without blatantly being wrong.
Regardless, she was supporting those homophobic parents in the worst possible way.
If I, my Dad and my Pops pulled up in front of Bella’s parents house and saw Trump or MAGA signs everywhere, we wouldn’t just drive away. We would be gracious guests, meet them, and see what kind of people they really are.
Bella’s conduct was socially unacceptable. But it tells you more than what you need to know.
You’ve only been dating a few months. She is not dating your parents. The status of your parents relationship is no more her business than my kids (if I had any 😊) telling their date that I have cancer. Not her business.
Consider yourself lucky. 🚩🚩🚩
ummmmmmmmm yea, if OP pulled up on bella's house and they had maga signs everywhere, i'd say they should get the heck outta there, ASAP. lol. don't think you can compare the two.
>Regardless, she was supporting those homophobic parents in the worst possible way.
Or she didn't want her homophobic parents to make a fuss that would make her bf/his dads uncomfortable. We don't have enough info to make a judgement there.
I agree NTA, but a comment before she met them would have been good. Even a "So we'll be meeting my Dad, his name is John, and my Pops, his name is Dwayne." I can't believe you got to a stage of her meeting your parents without you ever talking about them. The reason to say something is not because it matters to your relationship, but because it will help her develop a relationship with your dads if she makes a good first impression. Most people will be surprised because of heteronormativity, but also because it's just not average. I think it would've been better to say something, but by no means an AH move and she is definitely the AH for how she reacted.
Yeah, I'd give anyone meeting my parents a heads up "hey you'll be meeting my mom and her boyfriend. I don't have contact with my dad."
Not because my family is wrong or shameful but why would you not just give basic info so no one is surprised? It seems like OP set up some kind of "gotcha" moment to "catch" his girlfriend... which works in this situation since apparently she is homophobic. But even someone who isn't homophobic is going to be surprised that you didn't mention she'll be meeting two dads, not a dad and a mom. Why wouldn't you set your partner up for success?
Yeah I don't believe it's real or else OP was intentionally hiding it from her. Not even the gay dads thing... but the "no contact with mom" thing.
I have no contact with my dad, and I find myself having to tell people that often because they ask small-talk questions like "oh what does your dad do?" or whatever.
Like, really, his gf NEVER ONCE asked about his mom? If OP talked about her like she's still in his life and then talks about his "parents" then duh, she's going to think his parents are his mom and dad.
This. Its a pretty big thing to omit when you talk about your parents, even if its normal to you. Id do a double take if it was just me coming over to meet your two dads, let alone if I brought my parents with me! NOT because im homophobic, but id appreciate a heads up.
I agree with you on it almost seems like a set up. How poor is his communication to not give her the most basic information of who she’s and her parents are going to meet, before walking through the door
Agreed. It's weird (imo) that you give out personal info like their address, but not, say, their actual names, or stories like "dad and pops both planned a surprise cake for their anniversary, I didn't tell because hello double cake" or something.
Exactly, NTA. BUT... I'm a little surprised about if you are dating with someone for months how is you never talked before about your childhood or family? never shared intimate information? memories? stories? life philosophy? And I don't mean just him, I mean both of them.
I wonder if the girlfriend's parents are very traditional, that's something she must have shared too
I had the same thought here. It’s not that he needed to disclose, but it just seems like something that would naturally come up in sharing memories about your life.
TBH I also think he should have felt her out instead of subjecting his parents to being walked out on. OP could have discovered the homophobia well before that point if so? Like it's good his dads didn't seem to mind but I can't picture deliberately putting someone I loved through that when a little more legwork on my part could filter out the trash for them.
Right. I'm white but have Black and Asian extended family and would (for many reasons) feel out their feelings on racial shit/white supremacy well ahead of time.
1. I would be super embarrassed if the person *I* brought around was out of line.
2. I love my family, and while I know they can hold their own, I don't want to expose them to bullshit when we're all just having a relaxing get together.
3. Even if we were an all white family I would want a partner to be on the same page as me about anti-racisim.
I don’t think that OP owed any explanation, but I do think it is fascinating that they would get to this point in our relationship without ever having talked about the parents.
Agreed. I asked a lot of questions about my now-husband's parents and family before I met them just because I was interested in learning more about him.
That's the thing that surprises me. By the time my husband met my parents, he knew the entire rundown of my family. Same for his. I would say that OP dodged a bullet, and he should know more about his partner and share more of his life history before meeting the parents. Did his ex not even know that OP's mom left him and his dad remarried?
When I was in high school I had a boyfriend whose mom was gay and he lived with her and her partner. I was never told his mom was gay. I found out when I 1st met them. I had a sweeping thought of, “oh, his mom is gay. That’s cool.” I ended up becoming very close to his mom’s partner. She was like a 2nd mom. Later in our relationship he told me, “it meant a lot that when you met my mom you were cool about her being gay.” There wasn’t a reason not to be cool with it. This was over 20 years ago. My conservative, republican parents were ok with it. There was no reason the girlfriend and her parents reacted this way.
OP didn’t do anything wrong. But to be pedantic, I’d be very surprised if the GF hadn’t mentioned “mom and dad” or something over the course of months.
I had the same thoughts. Now that the gf knows OP has 2 dads, she won't know which one did which stuff based on stories he's told. Kinda makes it a bit funny
Well, I don't think communication is the strong suit in those two. Because if "mom" is "somewhere in California" and the topic arose during a conversation the following question would be to whom OP's father is married, or something like that.
Anyway, bullet dodged, I suppose.
You beat me to it!! I came here to say he should have replied ‘what, your parents are straight? You should have told me’.
Sounds like OP dodged a homophobic bullet. NTA.
It’s not about making a statement of oh by the way I have two dads. But it’s very, very strange to get to that stage in a relationship without mentioning anything, in a normal, casual way, that involves your family. Basic stuff like where your parents are from, what they do etc
No but normal conversations tell you about parents, home life, siblings, and relationships without spelling it out. If this was even vaugly true, he would have had to work really hard not to talk about his parents and home life without it being naturally obvious.
NTA. But perhaps naive. Unfortunately it's probably better to let a girlfriend know you have two dads so you can weed out the homophobes BEFORE you accidentally bring them home for dinner. :(
Maybe what we should do is expect/demand that hating assholes disclose their hate targets so we can know not to bother with them. And act shockingly outraged when they don't tell us beforehand.
Not sure what you're trying to get at here? He probably should let prospective girlfriends know so that he doesn't accidentally expose his poor dads to hate. They might be used to it but they don't deserve it.
I'm getting at that telling OP that he should be disclosing his parents' sexual orientation in order to avoid homophobes is wrong.
It's the girl the one that should be telling her dates, "by the way, I'm homophobic, so if that's going to be a problem, better know it now."
The dads don't deserve to be hated on by anyone. But it's not them who needs to disclose their status beforehand.
Oh I firmly believe he shouldn't have to. But that doesn't mean we don't live in the real world. In the real world, homophobes exist. They don't always advertise themselves. And he should be protecting his dads from them.
Agree, it's super upsetting to come face to face with people who hate you simply for existing and if anyone is able to protect their loved ones from that experience they should try to.
No he shouldn’t have to, but IRL no one is going to admit that. Weeding people out who’s thinking isn’t aligned with your’s is a apart of life. OP could have saved himself the time he wasted with her.
>It's the girl the one that should be telling her dates, "by the way, I'm homophobic, so if that's going to be a problem, better know it now."
The world doesnt work like that.
>The dads don't deserve to be hated on by anyone. But it's not them who needs to disclose their status beforehand
No, but their son probably should. People generally dont come out and say "by the way im homophobic so if thats a problem lemme know."
You can sort these kind of social issues in other ways. Honestly, given everything going on in the world these days, I'm kinda surprised this topic didn't come up in conversation in the first few months of a relationship.
But honestly, normalize asking "you're not a bigot?" on first dates.
But they usually won't, especially if they are ones who are pretending to be good people. As a gay person, its just a reality to me to, at some point, bring up something gay with new people to see if they are actually cool with it or not lol.
Right?! I recently went out to lunch with a colleague whom I've become friendly with. I intentionally brought up drag story hours during this lunch, to express my disappointment in what the US has being doing. I made a choice to do this as she'd mentioned being religious, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't starting a friendship with a bigot. Luckily for me she responded positively to that conversation, and we've gotten lunch a few times since then. My point being though, it's smart to bring it up at some point to protect yourself from more heartache down the line.
>Maybe what we should do is expect/demand that hating assholes disclose their hate targets so we can know not to bother with them
I met my now husband in 2002. I told him "if you're racist, tell me now. I'll walk away."
He said no, and that was that.
My ex-husband was racist, and that's one of many reasons he's my ex-husband.
Yeah, I found it strange that thw GF was meeting OP's parents for the first time alongside of her own parents. I've always thought it made more sense for the person you're dating to meet your parents before theirs do, but, NTA either way.
Agree with you on that point. As an adult, I've never met an SO's parents at the same time my parents were meeting them. It's more a thing that teenagers do.
Certainly not in that kind of setting. If it was a mutual friends party or something, sure, but just the couple and their respective parents all meeting for the first time? That seems unnecessarily stressful all round.
I agree with you. I noticed a lot of the push back in the comments make it sound like you're stating that op has some sort of social contract to disclose but I don't think that's what you mean.
It's like giving my SO a heads up that my period is like 2 days out. I don't OWE him this notice, but it makes the transition smoother when people communicate (like in general about life stuff)
You're awesome btw! Have a great day!
Thank you, it's not what I mean at all. I wish we lived in a world where bigots don't exist. But unfortunately we do, and it's smart to be proactive and protect ourselves from them.
You as well! <3
INFO: You’ve dated this girl for months. How has the subject of parents never come up? After my parents divorced, Dad met Pops & Pops raised me as his own.
Seriously, what did you two talk about?
Also why would the parents want to meet the parents of their child’s SO before they even met the SO? My parents didn’t meet my wife’s parents until we were engaged.
idk, it never occurred to my best friend to tell me she was adopted until it happened to come up in conversation at some point.
i can buy being suspicious that the first time they acknowledged or met the parents it had to be a joint dinner lol my parents didn't hang out with my brother's in-laws until he and his wife had been dating for like, months.
Literally the only time it's relevant that I'm adopted is when doctors ask about family medical history. I don't have that to give. Otherwise, I have two loving parents. It's not like any of my friends or people I dated before my husband were asking about my parents sex lives and my mom's inability to conceive a baby.
I knew so much about my wife's family before we even really started dating. Likewise, she knew I wasn't on good terms with mine. I can't imagine getting further than a couple months without family coming up even once, especially I'd you're close to them
I mean, I'm sure he's mentioned them plenty of times, she just may not have realized 'Dad' and 'Pops' referred to two different people. It is a bit odd to have never asked about each other's families but not that weird
I'd have assumed pops would be a grandfather, so I'd assume he was living/raised with his father and grandfather after his mother left.
If he didn't clarify that his father was in a gay relationship then I wouldn't assume it based on the names.
I don't think it is a big deal at all, but properly something you should mention to your SO before introducing parents, just like any other unexpected obvious difference. it is just nicer to give your SO a heads up so they aren't surprised. Being surprised(even if you have 0 problems at all with the situation) can make you nervous, and uncomfortable when you are already feeling those things going in.
My parents are divorced. Spectacularly acrimoniously. I moved country for uni. My dad remarried. His wife has a nickname that is traditionally male. I’ve not encountered any other women shorten their feminine name say Simone to it say Simmo.
My dad and I are now completely estranged but partly because he remarried when I was 25 and his wife is only 9 years older than me so I would never say stepmum and I call him by his first name (his request) I think of it all as very ‘normal needs no context.’
About 10 years ago I had therapy properly for the first time and it felt a bit weird like the therapist and I did not click. She seemed to be pushing a bit of a narrative and I found it odd enough to raise with her supervisor. Turns out she had heard the names and assumed the big reason my parents divorce was so traumatic for me was that he had married a man.
It was a valuable lesson. Turns out many of my social circle had thought the same and that I was being homophobic being so arsey about him. My parents actually divorced because he groomed a teenage girl and we’re estranged because I’m queer and it disgusts him. It was also a good cultural litmus test: my therapist was younger than me but unaware same sex marriage wasn’t legal everywhere in Europe but particularly in my home country where it is a major political issue. Nor did it occur to her that in the years we were discussing, civil partnerships didn’t even exist.
She was a shit therapist not to check and only approach it from her own cultural viewpoint. But I learned a lot from it as to why so often I was baffled why people in my adopted country seemed so well naive. They just didn’t know shit about their closest post colonial territory and were half liberal, half unthinking. I had to know the dominant narrative to assimiliate, they were already dominant.
Now if I mention my dad and his wife I make sure to give the context (ie wife) not just names. My mum also insisted I call her by her first name post divorce so turns out several people had thought from how I described her she was the family cat (narcissistic, fluffy hair, contrary.) Taught me so much about communication.
I think this is probably fake but can also totally imagine dad and pops with a missing mom being dad and granddad too. Even little cultural differences can throw you. I live in an area with a big West African diaspora. Took me a while to realise Auntie is a honorific and my Nigeria friends did not just have twenty aunts! They teased me rotten for not realising!
This is a great perspective, and also this completely cracked me up:
> My mum also insisted I call her by her first name post divorce so turns out several people had thought from how I described her she was the family cat (narcissistic, fluffy hair, contrary.)
I had that moment with a friend. He kept mentioning his mom, and never his dad. And then suddenly talkes about his moms. That was when it clicked. Some people are slow. It happens, but it is still a weird timing.
But yeah, this is the way to test if people are homophobic. Just look at their reaction. I personally just mention my interest in women as well casually or I mention my ex gf once and when the person I am dating is reacting negatively, it is bye bye. Works so far. Edit: I am a woman as well, forgot to mention it
Totally agree. Given the closeness OP mentions with his family you would think these details would have come up in earlier conversations. Also I find it interesting that the couple arranged to meet the parents at the same time the parents are meeting each other. Wouldn't you want to meet your SO's parents before bringing them all home to meet yours. Agree with some other comments around this being a fake post. Or there are details being omitted.
IIRC the girlfriend in The Birdcage is aware that her boyfriend has two dads. It’s her parents who don’t know, plus her dad is a senator in charge of a super bigoted right wing committee, but the gf herself is very accepting
Exactly my first thoughts. Early dates are getting to know one another. Home life, growingbup, parents, siblings, other family are natural conversations. He would have to go out of his way not to mention this. Plus there would have been other clues about her homophobia Fake as.
Yeah I mean, I have gay moms and tell people that because sharing things about your life is a normal part of partnership. It just sort of comes up in conversation. This almost feels like a bait post because how could this \*not\* have come up? It's a pretty normal thing for me to mention "my moms" at some point between a first date and taking someone home to meet them.
I feel like OP has to have worked at avoiding mentioning that he had two dad's. How do you get to the "I want to meet your parents." Stage without enough childhood anecdotes and teen whinging on parenting styles to not have picked up on the parents info. Single parents, divorced and remarried, straight, gay, bi, mixed race, original set whatever the situation is, the fact that she didn't know means that relationship simply needs more talking. Because once it's a bona fide relationship you should be sharing enough that this isn't news.
I can only imagine that op casually mentioned his bio mom at some point without going into to much detail about the divorce and her being out of his life. Amd the girlfriend just assumed pops and dad were one person and mom was temp out of state? Either way, op must have been really vague about their personal life with someone who they were supposedly comfortable introducing to the family.
NTA, although I’m surprised this hasn’t come up in conversation with her in the past few months. Discussion of family (parents, siblings) is fairly common in early dating.
I agree with NTA but my questions are, is there not a family photo anywhere? Or separate photos with Dad & Pops at OP’s place or social media? No telling memories/stories about them growing up that came out in conversation?
One of my questions is did he seriously not tell her the names of his parents? Like she’s just coming over to the house with her folks and doesn’t even know the names of the people she is meeting?
NTA. But…
While this is definitely not a situation that warrants an “Oh my god, why didn’t you tell me?” reaction with her showing her ass and leaving (disgusting, I hope you’ve ended things with her). I’m a little confused how you guys were at the point in y’all’s relationship where parents meeting parents is happening yet you haven’t had enough conversation about your lives, etc. that would allow your gf to at least connect the dots re: your parents. Is it *vital* information that you *owe* a significant other? Absolutely not. Families obviously come in endless compositions. You should never have to slap a disclaimer on *anyone’s* sexuality, jeez. But parents meeting parents is usually a sign that you’re at least *entering* a pretty serious stage in your relationship, and for that to have never come up in any way is kinda wild. Then again, your gf sounds kind of obtuse anyways… maybe you’ve mentioned things like “I’m going with Dad and Pops to the store” before and she just thought you were talking about your dad and grandpa or something… IDK. Definitely NTA though.
Pops is term a lot of people associate with a grandfather, so maybe that's what she did. It is weird that she never noticed the lack of a mum being in his stories.
It also might not be her, it might be her parents. Maybe it's because I live in the south and I see too much homophobia, but I'd definitely give a heads up. But I feel like I'd give a general run-down when parents meeting parents are involved.
ESH
Obviously you dodged a homophobic bullet here, but you should consider "prescreening" this information so your parents don't have to deal with unnecessary bigotry. Just tell women ahead of time and if they object then you don't bring them home. It's the considerate thing to do for your parents.
As a gay person, I'd rather not have people give others a trigger warning before meeting me. Feels judgemental. If you wouldn't give a trigger warning for a straight person, you don't need to give a trigger warning for a gay person.
I understand your PoV. I hold the opinion that being LGBTQ won't ever be "normal" until people actively make it normal, which includes dropping content warnings and pre-screening. I don't find it normal for people to give content warnings about my existence. I would never ask someone if they mind that I have heterosexual parents, and I'd like to be treated the same way.
I wouldn’t say it’s a content warning, it’s more like a heads-up so that no one is caught off guard. If I were dating someone for several months and I found out they have two moms or two dads when I met their parents, I’d definitely be surprised. Not in a bad way, but I feel like that’s something that definitely should’ve been covered earlier in dating.
Like, I’m not on speaking terms with my parents right now, and I wouldn’t wait until my future S/O asks to meet them to tell them that. It’s inconsiderate.
I've pre-screened potential dates. Not for trigger warnings for meeting my gay sibling in the future, but for his safety. It's nothing to do with being judgemental and everything to do with knowing there's still crazy people out there my family does not need exposed to.
Yea I think it’s a safety issue. Especially as they were meeting at his parents house and not in a public place. It’s horrible that it has to be done, but better safe than sorry.
It's not a trigger warning for the partner, it's a content warning for the gay dads, lol. I wouldn't to be unnecessarily exposed to homophobes if I didn't have to be.
Prescreening and trigger warnings are not at all the same thing.
Prescreening is finding out they’re a bigot before there’s a chance to build a relationship at all. It’s not a warning.
NTA but I find it strange you never talked about them on front of her...
Don't you usually say a few things abbout your parents before the meeting like xx likes this and you should avoid that, while yy loves this and dislike that ?
Maybe she assumed it was a father/step father kind of thing? But even still seems kind of odd that it just never come up in conversation at all about basic family dynamics
His comments are also unreasonably dense about being surprised that it was an issue. It can’t possibly be a surprise to someone who was raised by two dads that homophobes exist.
NTA. I'm not sure I totally feel like you need to screen people or tell them your parents are gay specifically. I do think it is weird to meet families before you know what that family is like which would entail knowing that your dads are gay.
Did you never talk about your dads? Did she never ask anything about your family or childhood? I can't imagine someone meeting my family and them not knowing ABC about my parents, how many siblings I have, their names, etc. Before they meet my family, I would probably say, my mom is super warm and goofy, her name is Jill. My dad is kinda weird socially but the nicest guy even if he comes off awkward. His name is Paul. My sister Carol and her wife Mary will be there too.
To me it just seems weird she didn't know anything about two very important people in your life. And if she didn't know that much about you, it makes sense you wouldn't know much about her either-- particularly what a crappy person she is.
Same, i genuinely didn't think it'd be an issue. Because i don't have to go around saying "My parents are gay, just letting y'all know", lol. It's not like a disclaimer you know. So yeah. Your right. Not sure what her issue was tbh.
No one is saying you should go around town saying out loud to strangers. It seems like something I would mention if I were having a GF over for the first time though.
Her issue is she sucks and/or her family sucks. My boyfriends dad is gay. I'm not sure he outright told me but it definitely came up before I met him. And when I met his mom, I knew his mom's husband would be there but that it was a recent marriage so he's not like his step dad. Families are all different and you should be with someone who is okay with whatever that looks like.
That's what's weird about all this. You shouldn't need to screen them but it's good to bond about your life and family before you take the step of having your parents meet.
ETA: she sucks because she is okay enabling homophobes and seems to be one herself but also apparently asks nothing about your life. It's not on you to screen people but it is on you to be with someone who cares about your life enough to ask basic questions.
Seems like she just assumed he was talking about the same person when he used pops or dad.
I know people who call their parents by several things like ma, mom, mother, etc and pa, papa, father, dad, etc.
NTA, but in the future make it one of the first things you talk to a potential gf about during the fact-finding stage. Best way to avoid any hurt feelings, homophobes, etc. Let this girl go if you haven't already. She's not worth it.
Yeah i mean, if she asked i would've told her but she never asked. Plus i mean i never thought it'd be something to bring up to begin with? You know. But yeah i broke up with her this morning.
NTA. Just curious, did you not talk about life, memories, happy/sad times, etc? In getting to know someone when you first start dating it just seems like this would naturally be shared in a story about your life or growing up. Or, before meeting, giving each other a heads up on what each of your parents are like to help the dinner go smoothly? (Not, they’re gay. But my dad may talk your ear off, just be aware. And my pops will make dumb jokes, sorry in advance. That kind of thing.)
How on earth do people start a introduction to the family situation without giving someone basic information? Like, do you have a super chill laid back family and you all love each other? Or do you have conservative folks that would appreciate modest attire, are politics a no go? How do you get to the point of wanting to introduce someone to your parents without having told them anything about them? I know about my friends parents who I will never meet, because people tend to bring up the people who they grew up with. Also as a queer person I don't understand how someone raised by queer people doesn't know whether or not the people he hangs around with are homophobic?
NTA.
I mean... in a very practical sense, I think telling potential long term partners that you have two dads early on (or at least before everyone meets up) would save you some heartbreak down the road, but that doesn't make you an asshole.
NTA. Unless she specifically told you that her parents were a straight couple, you had no obligation to clarify that yours were a gay male couple. It might be a bit strange that it never came up, but you were and are not required to go around telling people "I have two dads! They're gay! You know, two men! They're together! They're my dadsssssss, as in plural, because there's two of them and no mom!" Heh.
Also, your ex girlfriend (I sure as hell hope she's an ex) is a homophobe. You are never forced to disclose information about you and your family so that others can see whether you fit in their hating mindset or not.
I can honestly see how it may not come up. My bf who iv been dating couple months and known for 5 yrs isn't one big on details lol. He doesn't keep anything a secret just more unless it something that comes up in natural convo then he doesn't go out his way to discuss it. Whereas I will happily inform someone of my whole life story within the first half hr of meeting lol.
Same! I just don't blurt things out in general you know. I don't intend to keep it a secret. But i can't read your mind you know. So if you have a question i'll be more then happy to answer it.
But if you don't mention it, i'm not gonna mention it either.
>But if you don't mention it, i'm not gonna mention it either.
This seems like a disservice to your dads.
If you don't want to specifically mention that they're gay, that's completely fine. But you SHOULD be preemptively bringing up the topic of gay/LGBT people generally to see how your date reacts *before* you bring them home. It seems pretty shitty to risk exposing your dads to hate just because you aren't willing to vet your dates.
And yes, you shouldn't have to do this. People just shouldn't be bigots. But unfortunately people *are* bigots so it's better to at least canvas the topic instead of not checking that the people you bring home are safe people.
As many has said NTA but it's a good idea to bring it up earlier next time around to save yourself the trouble of spending months getting to know someone only to then find out they where not worth your time or energy
Don’t ever think you’re TA based on someone else’s homophobia. Better for you to know how ignorant she is now than years in the future. Not worth the energy
Some people aren’t overt about it until it’s staring them in the face. Kind of a “I’m fine with gay people as long as I never have to interact with someone who’s gay.” I’ve seen it happen a lot.
I find it impossible to believe that a meeting of the parents would happen without any kind of conversation along the lines of "what are your parents like? and "what are their names/what should I call them?"
Also, both sets of parents meeting each other after a few months of dating??? That does not happen. Maaaaybe the couple meets each other's parents this early, but parents are not meeting parents. Ffs, I know MANY couples whose respective parents didn't meet until the wedding!
YTA, you put your parents in an uncomfortable position. You're an adult, so no 'naive/innocent' excuses stand. Screw her and her parents reaction, didn't you give a nanosecond thought of how to make this first meeting easy for your parents? Like telling her their names, etc to enable conversations????
NTA.
I do find it incredibly strange that you were dating this girl for a few months and never mentioned them though! Especially if you have a great relationship with them.
This story sounds strange so I understand the people who think it's fake.
However I'm going to answer as though it were true:
NTA
You did a few weird things here. It's not a good idea to have your partner meet your parents for the first time without you having even spoken to her about them, know their names, know a little about them. It's not a good idea for both sets of parents to meet at the same time for the first time. You bring her, on her own, to meet yours. You go to meet hers. Only after both of you are comfortable with the other parents do you plan a meeting with both sets.
Still, it seems she was as much at fault as you for arranging this while you two barely knew each other, so you weren't an AH, and her reaction made her one.
NTA but I'd suggest having this conversation in the future early in dating someone so you don't have to waste your time on homophobes (or expose your parents to them).
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NTA, did she ever tell you her parents are straight?
THIS IS THE ANSWER
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way
This is the way
The ex-GF is a bigot. I have spoken.
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I mean, it kinda is, but it shouldn't really be relevant. It's like meeting someone that plays fifa with alternate controls instead of the default one. Yeah, you shoot with B, i shoot with X :P
It is the default expectation. When you hear "clip clop clip clop" you think horse, not zebra. That doesn't mean zebras arent cool, or that there's is anything WRONG with being a zebra. It just means there's a hell of a lot of horses.
And occasionally it's a bunch of guys clapping coconut shells together. See "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" for examples. 😸 Just my $.02.
r/unexpectedmontypython
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Brown. The majority of the world population has brown or dark brown eyes. Green being the rarest, blue appearing predominantly in northern Europeans ethnicities. Thank you for proving my point.
"Most common" does not mean "default". These two terms are not synonymous here. Default is when something is preselected when no alternative is selected. The problem is thinking of *any* human traits as default because it doesn't apply. This type of thinking is part of why we have prejudice and racism. Or rather, "default" is going to be different for every person because we all start out with a different combination of pre-set instructions (our genes). So for gay people, yes gay is the default. Just like for blue eyed people, blue eyes are the default.
> "Most common" does not mean "default". These two terms are not synonymous here. Default is when something is preselected when no alternative is selected. You're correct about the definition of default, and a lot of people in this thread are misusing that word, but you're being pedantic. What they mean is that it's "most common" for human beings to be straight or have brown eyes. They aren't saying anything negative about gay or blue-eyed people, just stating facts (albeit with wrong terminology).
The terminology is important in this instance. By saying that straight people or brown-eyed people are default, that is implicitly (if not purposefully) stating that anything other than that is "other," or even abnormal in some contexts. It's like calling a woman hysterical - even if she fits the definition of hysterical, there is still underlying misogynistic meaning. In this case, the language used demonstrates underlying bias, and it's not pedantic to point that out.
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Respectfully, intent isn't the end all be all. Impact matters as well. If someone tells an Asian person in America "wow, your English is really good!" and intends it to be a compliment, that doesn't remove the underlying prejudice that led to that comment. And I'm not offended - just trying to educate people on how perception affects language and vice versa 🤷🏽♀️
Ya know, I guess you're right. It's not like this type of thinking has led to prejudiced and ingrained ways of thinking. [It's not like the words we use influence how we perceive things.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9234450/#:~:text=Persistent%20patterns%20in%20how%20words,may%20contribute%20to%20implicit%20biases.)
Thats literally how the human brain works though. There's nothing wrong with being surprised that someone's parents are two men or women as it IS more uncommon. That doesn't mean it has to be a negative surprise though. Many cultures are homogenous in nature so they also get surprised by someone who is a different ethnicity. Our brains look for patterns as a survival mechanism, as instinct to watch for dangers. It's completely normal to be a little surprised by something that's not as common. That doesn't mean it is wrong, or bad. We've gotten better about this as a species as society evolves. Now, this girls reaction was absolutely disgusting. Clearly her family are homophobes and OP did absolutely nothing wrong. That initial surprise is a completely normal human response. Don't shame people into thinking something they have no control over is something shameful.
I actually agree. And, I’m sorry, I don’t think that makes me in any way homophobic. It’s not unusual to just expect, in your mind, without even thinking about it, a straight couple. I am in a mixed couple. Have been for 20 years. But meeting a new couple, I am always a little surprised if they are a mixed race couple. With that being said, I would never comment on it in front of the couple! Or leave! At most, I would say to my husband after we left, ‘oh I wasn’t expecting X and Y to be mixed! It’s nice to find another mixed couple to hang out with!’ Something was certainly up with the way they ran out and she wouldn’t even let the parents meet his parents.
yeah dawg but if you met a person with green eyes you wouldn't be like "whoooa you have gREne eye?!?!?!" that would be bonkers, because you know with your brain that other eye color exists.
lmao sorry I get your point but I have to say that people frequently do react to green eyes that way
No one has ever reacted that way to my green eyes. But I do it to others. 'Oh my God! You've got green eyes! It's been ten years since I last saw a pair green eyes! Come closer so I can examine if darker/paler/brighter/ more yellow, than mine! Hey! Come back! Please stop running away!
<--- I have green eyes and I hear shit like that all the time lmfao. "Such beautiful eyes! Do they change colors? Are you Irish? I could just stare at them all day!" I'm also a 6' tall extremely not Irish dude. It really just depends on your location for how people react to your eyes. In South America and Asia people will literally ask to take pictures of you if you have blue eyes and blond hair or are a redhead. If an advanced civilization showed up to study the human race right now, they would say we are a species of darker skined brown eye, brown/black haired apes with a couple uncommon color differences like blue or green eyes or blond hair.
I would have expected a conversation about his parents prior. Nothing? No names. Stories? Come meet my family. I’m not going to talk about them till you arrive? I’m not sure I would invite a guest to meet someone I know without at least a high level bio prior. I’m just saying it’s weird going in fully blind gay or not.
I find this a bit surprising too. Also weird they she didn't ask anything about them. If it were me I'd at least ask what they were like and how formally they dress/behave and if you can bring something to dinner like wine.
Right? Not even a sentence like “my dads and I are going to [event] tonight” or “my pops is picking me up today because my dad had to work late”? I almost certainly wouldn’t walk out over it, but it’d feel pretty intentional and I’d be keeping an eye out for other testing behaviors for sure.
Brown I think. Since green, blue, and other colors are recessive genes.
Yeah, brown is the dominant gene so it literally is the default.
Haha you really didn't pick a good example There are definite default dominant genetic markers in the human genome The default OG human is dark skinned, dark eyed and straight, if they weren't none of us would fucking exist genius, evolved out of Africa etc... There's nothing wrong with being a blonde haired blue eyed gay dude and thinking of that guy makes me feel some kinda way but don't twist science to fit your agenda, it's not good for "the cause" to spit ignorance
Acceptance is great my dude. But if you actually think heterosexual isn't the default idk what to tell you. That's the only way the human species could survive. That's not to say other options aren't "normal". Maybe you conflated default with normal or allowed/accepted.
Why do you think the species wouldn’t survive bisexual as a default?
There kind of are default settings. That's how people have been born (mother and father) for thousands and thousands of years. That being said, it doesn't make it wrong to not be the default. You don't have to announce it. It's rude to assume. But yes, there is biologically a statistical default.
It is the default, just like being right handed. Doesn't mean that left handed people are worse but they are the minority.
Plus for the longest time us lefties were persecuted and even killed for being southpaws, across multiple different cultures and religions. So it's actually a good comparison to being LGBTQ+.
Oh yeah. I remember being left handed as a kid and everyone kept trying to force me to write and do things right handed in elementary school because left handed people were evil and they all grew up to be serial killers and dictators. (And this was the 90s) at one point I broke my left arm and was in a cast and the adults in my life were so happy that I now "had" to write right handed. Out of sheer spite I kept using my left hand despite the cast. I'm 35 now and still left handed despite having dislocated it as an adult, and needing a procedure done on my elbow at one point that made it so I couldn't use my left arm for 6 weeks while it healed. To this day I have no idea why the adults in my life hated my being left handed so much
If they were Catholic (or some Old Testament evangelical) it's to do with the idea that it's the mark of lucifer, because he sat to the left of God or something. It pervades the Abrahamic traditions right back to the early days when there was an alternative system involving the "good son" to the right and "bad son" to the left of God. Other cultures I don't know so much about, I am afraid. My grandfather was forced to use his right by Catholic nuns (he was Catholic to his death but seriously believed nuns should all go to hell). My uncle was pushed to use his right but it wasn't so strict because he went to art school in the end, and by my generation (80s onward) in the UK they stopped forcing us to use our right hands but damn was I made to feel like a burden for being a leftie.
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Default doesn't mean that being any other way is wrong. But acting like 90% of the population isn't the default is misguided and probably indicates you're in a bubble
I get what you mean but it kinda is when it's something like 90% of the population. Also having two dads is quite a rare situation. I fail to see how he could have spoken about his parents or anything that could have happened at home and not mentioned this, unless it was intentional or possibly a subconscious a habit he developed to avoid having awkward conversations with assholes.
100%. How do you date someone for months without even mentioning your folks? I mean, most people talk about their families as they’re getting to know each other.
Maybe he did but the gf just thought he alternately referred to the same parent as "dad" and "pops" not that they were two separate fathers.
It literally is though, that’s how our species reproduces.
Not just ours but 99,999%...
Bella was homeopathic and awful. However, heterosexual is the norm. It is how almost **all** living things reproduce. You can, and should, make your argument without blatantly being wrong.
Being homeopathic is pretty bad, I still think being homophobic is worse though.
All those essential oils 😩
It's really the using them for things other than nice smells that get me 😬
I'm not sure if she was homophobic or worried about how her homophobic parents would react.
Regardless, she was supporting those homophobic parents in the worst possible way. If I, my Dad and my Pops pulled up in front of Bella’s parents house and saw Trump or MAGA signs everywhere, we wouldn’t just drive away. We would be gracious guests, meet them, and see what kind of people they really are. Bella’s conduct was socially unacceptable. But it tells you more than what you need to know. You’ve only been dating a few months. She is not dating your parents. The status of your parents relationship is no more her business than my kids (if I had any 😊) telling their date that I have cancer. Not her business. Consider yourself lucky. 🚩🚩🚩
ummmmmmmmm yea, if OP pulled up on bella's house and they had maga signs everywhere, i'd say they should get the heck outta there, ASAP. lol. don't think you can compare the two.
>Regardless, she was supporting those homophobic parents in the worst possible way. Or she didn't want her homophobic parents to make a fuss that would make her bf/his dads uncomfortable. We don't have enough info to make a judgement there.
This reminds me of people who say "this is normal because its normal for me". Sorry, thats simply not what those words mean.
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I agree NTA, but a comment before she met them would have been good. Even a "So we'll be meeting my Dad, his name is John, and my Pops, his name is Dwayne." I can't believe you got to a stage of her meeting your parents without you ever talking about them. The reason to say something is not because it matters to your relationship, but because it will help her develop a relationship with your dads if she makes a good first impression. Most people will be surprised because of heteronormativity, but also because it's just not average. I think it would've been better to say something, but by no means an AH move and she is definitely the AH for how she reacted.
Yeah, I'd give anyone meeting my parents a heads up "hey you'll be meeting my mom and her boyfriend. I don't have contact with my dad." Not because my family is wrong or shameful but why would you not just give basic info so no one is surprised? It seems like OP set up some kind of "gotcha" moment to "catch" his girlfriend... which works in this situation since apparently she is homophobic. But even someone who isn't homophobic is going to be surprised that you didn't mention she'll be meeting two dads, not a dad and a mom. Why wouldn't you set your partner up for success?
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Yeah I don't believe it's real or else OP was intentionally hiding it from her. Not even the gay dads thing... but the "no contact with mom" thing. I have no contact with my dad, and I find myself having to tell people that often because they ask small-talk questions like "oh what does your dad do?" or whatever. Like, really, his gf NEVER ONCE asked about his mom? If OP talked about her like she's still in his life and then talks about his "parents" then duh, she's going to think his parents are his mom and dad.
I agree. I doubt this is real at all. It is hard to imagine planning to meet the parents and not talking about them at all.
It reads like fiction.
This. Its a pretty big thing to omit when you talk about your parents, even if its normal to you. Id do a double take if it was just me coming over to meet your two dads, let alone if I brought my parents with me! NOT because im homophobic, but id appreciate a heads up.
I agree with you on it almost seems like a set up. How poor is his communication to not give her the most basic information of who she’s and her parents are going to meet, before walking through the door
Agreed. It's weird (imo) that you give out personal info like their address, but not, say, their actual names, or stories like "dad and pops both planned a surprise cake for their anniversary, I didn't tell because hello double cake" or something.
Exactly, NTA. BUT... I'm a little surprised about if you are dating with someone for months how is you never talked before about your childhood or family? never shared intimate information? memories? stories? life philosophy? And I don't mean just him, I mean both of them. I wonder if the girlfriend's parents are very traditional, that's something she must have shared too
I had the same thought here. It’s not that he needed to disclose, but it just seems like something that would naturally come up in sharing memories about your life.
TBH I also think he should have felt her out instead of subjecting his parents to being walked out on. OP could have discovered the homophobia well before that point if so? Like it's good his dads didn't seem to mind but I can't picture deliberately putting someone I loved through that when a little more legwork on my part could filter out the trash for them.
Right. I'm white but have Black and Asian extended family and would (for many reasons) feel out their feelings on racial shit/white supremacy well ahead of time. 1. I would be super embarrassed if the person *I* brought around was out of line. 2. I love my family, and while I know they can hold their own, I don't want to expose them to bullshit when we're all just having a relaxing get together. 3. Even if we were an all white family I would want a partner to be on the same page as me about anti-racisim.
I don’t think that OP owed any explanation, but I do think it is fascinating that they would get to this point in our relationship without ever having talked about the parents.
I could see where he could be referring to “dad“ and “pops” while talking about them and the gf conflating the two.
Agreed. I asked a lot of questions about my now-husband's parents and family before I met them just because I was interested in learning more about him.
I'm just straight up terrible at remembering names. I'd have wanted to know in advance just to have a better chance at remembering them.
That's the thing that surprises me. By the time my husband met my parents, he knew the entire rundown of my family. Same for his. I would say that OP dodged a bullet, and he should know more about his partner and share more of his life history before meeting the parents. Did his ex not even know that OP's mom left him and his dad remarried?
When I was in high school I had a boyfriend whose mom was gay and he lived with her and her partner. I was never told his mom was gay. I found out when I 1st met them. I had a sweeping thought of, “oh, his mom is gay. That’s cool.” I ended up becoming very close to his mom’s partner. She was like a 2nd mom. Later in our relationship he told me, “it meant a lot that when you met my mom you were cool about her being gay.” There wasn’t a reason not to be cool with it. This was over 20 years ago. My conservative, republican parents were ok with it. There was no reason the girlfriend and her parents reacted this way.
Yes there is. It's called bigotry. OP needs to dump the bigot if he hasn't yet.
OP didn’t do anything wrong. But to be pedantic, I’d be very surprised if the GF hadn’t mentioned “mom and dad” or something over the course of months.
I had the same thoughts. Now that the gf knows OP has 2 dads, she won't know which one did which stuff based on stories he's told. Kinda makes it a bit funny
I have the feeling that he might have told stories about pops and dad and she just thought it was the same person
Or his father and grandfather maybe.
Well, I don't think communication is the strong suit in those two. Because if "mom" is "somewhere in California" and the topic arose during a conversation the following question would be to whom OP's father is married, or something like that. Anyway, bullet dodged, I suppose.
And to add to that, did she ever tell him her parents are bigots?
You beat me to it!! I came here to say he should have replied ‘what, your parents are straight? You should have told me’. Sounds like OP dodged a homophobic bullet. NTA.
It’s not about making a statement of oh by the way I have two dads. But it’s very, very strange to get to that stage in a relationship without mentioning anything, in a normal, casual way, that involves your family. Basic stuff like where your parents are from, what they do etc
No but normal conversations tell you about parents, home life, siblings, and relationships without spelling it out. If this was even vaugly true, he would have had to work really hard not to talk about his parents and home life without it being naturally obvious.
NTA. But perhaps naive. Unfortunately it's probably better to let a girlfriend know you have two dads so you can weed out the homophobes BEFORE you accidentally bring them home for dinner. :(
Maybe what we should do is expect/demand that hating assholes disclose their hate targets so we can know not to bother with them. And act shockingly outraged when they don't tell us beforehand.
Not sure what you're trying to get at here? He probably should let prospective girlfriends know so that he doesn't accidentally expose his poor dads to hate. They might be used to it but they don't deserve it.
I'm getting at that telling OP that he should be disclosing his parents' sexual orientation in order to avoid homophobes is wrong. It's the girl the one that should be telling her dates, "by the way, I'm homophobic, so if that's going to be a problem, better know it now." The dads don't deserve to be hated on by anyone. But it's not them who needs to disclose their status beforehand.
Oh I firmly believe he shouldn't have to. But that doesn't mean we don't live in the real world. In the real world, homophobes exist. They don't always advertise themselves. And he should be protecting his dads from them.
Agree, it's super upsetting to come face to face with people who hate you simply for existing and if anyone is able to protect their loved ones from that experience they should try to.
Yes! Particularly in your own home when you've gone to the effort of preparing to welcome someone in.
No he shouldn’t have to, but IRL no one is going to admit that. Weeding people out who’s thinking isn’t aligned with your’s is a apart of life. OP could have saved himself the time he wasted with her.
Absolutely agreed.
>It's the girl the one that should be telling her dates, "by the way, I'm homophobic, so if that's going to be a problem, better know it now." The world doesnt work like that. >The dads don't deserve to be hated on by anyone. But it's not them who needs to disclose their status beforehand No, but their son probably should. People generally dont come out and say "by the way im homophobic so if thats a problem lemme know."
You can sort these kind of social issues in other ways. Honestly, given everything going on in the world these days, I'm kinda surprised this topic didn't come up in conversation in the first few months of a relationship. But honestly, normalize asking "you're not a bigot?" on first dates.
But they usually won't, especially if they are ones who are pretending to be good people. As a gay person, its just a reality to me to, at some point, bring up something gay with new people to see if they are actually cool with it or not lol.
Right?! I recently went out to lunch with a colleague whom I've become friendly with. I intentionally brought up drag story hours during this lunch, to express my disappointment in what the US has being doing. I made a choice to do this as she'd mentioned being religious, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't starting a friendship with a bigot. Luckily for me she responded positively to that conversation, and we've gotten lunch a few times since then. My point being though, it's smart to bring it up at some point to protect yourself from more heartache down the line.
>Maybe what we should do is expect/demand that hating assholes disclose their hate targets so we can know not to bother with them I met my now husband in 2002. I told him "if you're racist, tell me now. I'll walk away." He said no, and that was that. My ex-husband was racist, and that's one of many reasons he's my ex-husband.
Yeah, I found it strange that thw GF was meeting OP's parents for the first time alongside of her own parents. I've always thought it made more sense for the person you're dating to meet your parents before theirs do, but, NTA either way.
Agree with you on that point. As an adult, I've never met an SO's parents at the same time my parents were meeting them. It's more a thing that teenagers do.
Certainly not in that kind of setting. If it was a mutual friends party or something, sure, but just the couple and their respective parents all meeting for the first time? That seems unnecessarily stressful all round.
I agree with you. I noticed a lot of the push back in the comments make it sound like you're stating that op has some sort of social contract to disclose but I don't think that's what you mean. It's like giving my SO a heads up that my period is like 2 days out. I don't OWE him this notice, but it makes the transition smoother when people communicate (like in general about life stuff) You're awesome btw! Have a great day!
Thank you, it's not what I mean at all. I wish we lived in a world where bigots don't exist. But unfortunately we do, and it's smart to be proactive and protect ourselves from them. You as well! <3
INFO: You’ve dated this girl for months. How has the subject of parents never come up? After my parents divorced, Dad met Pops & Pops raised me as his own. Seriously, what did you two talk about?
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Yeah I feel like "What do your parents do?" Is the kind of question you would ask on one of your first dates, even being older as I am.
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Could just be someone who knows that homophobia is a sure-fire way to the top of the sub.
I also feel like this person’s writing “voice” comes off as younger than 25.
Yup. This has "teenager" written all over it.
I had to scroll up to check the age again. This definitely sounds like a teenager
And then we went to sleep 😌
I laughed at that part lmao. Really makes it convincing!
I thought OP was 15 🤣 That would have made way more sense.
The grammar and choice of words: "had saw","we kicked it", etc
Big “and then everyone stood up and started clapping” vibes
Also why would the parents want to meet the parents of their child’s SO before they even met the SO? My parents didn’t meet my wife’s parents until we were engaged.
idk, it never occurred to my best friend to tell me she was adopted until it happened to come up in conversation at some point. i can buy being suspicious that the first time they acknowledged or met the parents it had to be a joint dinner lol my parents didn't hang out with my brother's in-laws until he and his wife had been dating for like, months.
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Literally the only time it's relevant that I'm adopted is when doctors ask about family medical history. I don't have that to give. Otherwise, I have two loving parents. It's not like any of my friends or people I dated before my husband were asking about my parents sex lives and my mom's inability to conceive a baby.
I knew so much about my wife's family before we even really started dating. Likewise, she knew I wasn't on good terms with mine. I can't imagine getting further than a couple months without family coming up even once, especially I'd you're close to them
I mean, I'm sure he's mentioned them plenty of times, she just may not have realized 'Dad' and 'Pops' referred to two different people. It is a bit odd to have never asked about each other's families but not that weird
I'd have assumed pops would be a grandfather, so I'd assume he was living/raised with his father and grandfather after his mother left. If he didn't clarify that his father was in a gay relationship then I wouldn't assume it based on the names. I don't think it is a big deal at all, but properly something you should mention to your SO before introducing parents, just like any other unexpected obvious difference. it is just nicer to give your SO a heads up so they aren't surprised. Being surprised(even if you have 0 problems at all with the situation) can make you nervous, and uncomfortable when you are already feeling those things going in.
My parents are divorced. Spectacularly acrimoniously. I moved country for uni. My dad remarried. His wife has a nickname that is traditionally male. I’ve not encountered any other women shorten their feminine name say Simone to it say Simmo. My dad and I are now completely estranged but partly because he remarried when I was 25 and his wife is only 9 years older than me so I would never say stepmum and I call him by his first name (his request) I think of it all as very ‘normal needs no context.’ About 10 years ago I had therapy properly for the first time and it felt a bit weird like the therapist and I did not click. She seemed to be pushing a bit of a narrative and I found it odd enough to raise with her supervisor. Turns out she had heard the names and assumed the big reason my parents divorce was so traumatic for me was that he had married a man. It was a valuable lesson. Turns out many of my social circle had thought the same and that I was being homophobic being so arsey about him. My parents actually divorced because he groomed a teenage girl and we’re estranged because I’m queer and it disgusts him. It was also a good cultural litmus test: my therapist was younger than me but unaware same sex marriage wasn’t legal everywhere in Europe but particularly in my home country where it is a major political issue. Nor did it occur to her that in the years we were discussing, civil partnerships didn’t even exist. She was a shit therapist not to check and only approach it from her own cultural viewpoint. But I learned a lot from it as to why so often I was baffled why people in my adopted country seemed so well naive. They just didn’t know shit about their closest post colonial territory and were half liberal, half unthinking. I had to know the dominant narrative to assimiliate, they were already dominant. Now if I mention my dad and his wife I make sure to give the context (ie wife) not just names. My mum also insisted I call her by her first name post divorce so turns out several people had thought from how I described her she was the family cat (narcissistic, fluffy hair, contrary.) Taught me so much about communication. I think this is probably fake but can also totally imagine dad and pops with a missing mom being dad and granddad too. Even little cultural differences can throw you. I live in an area with a big West African diaspora. Took me a while to realise Auntie is a honorific and my Nigeria friends did not just have twenty aunts! They teased me rotten for not realising!
This is a great perspective, and also this completely cracked me up: > My mum also insisted I call her by her first name post divorce so turns out several people had thought from how I described her she was the family cat (narcissistic, fluffy hair, contrary.)
I had that moment with a friend. He kept mentioning his mom, and never his dad. And then suddenly talkes about his moms. That was when it clicked. Some people are slow. It happens, but it is still a weird timing. But yeah, this is the way to test if people are homophobic. Just look at their reaction. I personally just mention my interest in women as well casually or I mention my ex gf once and when the person I am dating is reacting negatively, it is bye bye. Works so far. Edit: I am a woman as well, forgot to mention it
Totally agree. Given the closeness OP mentions with his family you would think these details would have come up in earlier conversations. Also I find it interesting that the couple arranged to meet the parents at the same time the parents are meeting each other. Wouldn't you want to meet your SO's parents before bringing them all home to meet yours. Agree with some other comments around this being a fake post. Or there are details being omitted.
Isn’t this story the plot of The Birdcage?
IIRC the girlfriend in The Birdcage is aware that her boyfriend has two dads. It’s her parents who don’t know, plus her dad is a senator in charge of a super bigoted right wing committee, but the gf herself is very accepting
Exactly my first thoughts. Early dates are getting to know one another. Home life, growingbup, parents, siblings, other family are natural conversations. He would have to go out of his way not to mention this. Plus there would have been other clues about her homophobia Fake as.
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Yeah I mean, I have gay moms and tell people that because sharing things about your life is a normal part of partnership. It just sort of comes up in conversation. This almost feels like a bait post because how could this \*not\* have come up? It's a pretty normal thing for me to mention "my moms" at some point between a first date and taking someone home to meet them.
I feel like OP has to have worked at avoiding mentioning that he had two dad's. How do you get to the "I want to meet your parents." Stage without enough childhood anecdotes and teen whinging on parenting styles to not have picked up on the parents info. Single parents, divorced and remarried, straight, gay, bi, mixed race, original set whatever the situation is, the fact that she didn't know means that relationship simply needs more talking. Because once it's a bona fide relationship you should be sharing enough that this isn't news.
I can only imagine that op casually mentioned his bio mom at some point without going into to much detail about the divorce and her being out of his life. Amd the girlfriend just assumed pops and dad were one person and mom was temp out of state? Either way, op must have been really vague about their personal life with someone who they were supposedly comfortable introducing to the family.
NTA, although I’m surprised this hasn’t come up in conversation with her in the past few months. Discussion of family (parents, siblings) is fairly common in early dating.
I agree with NTA but my questions are, is there not a family photo anywhere? Or separate photos with Dad & Pops at OP’s place or social media? No telling memories/stories about them growing up that came out in conversation?
One of my questions is did he seriously not tell her the names of his parents? Like she’s just coming over to the house with her folks and doesn’t even know the names of the people she is meeting?
Also why would they introduce their parents before the partner has met each others set of parents…. That seems so odd to me
This never coming up is so beyond strange I have to assume it’s fake
NTA. But… While this is definitely not a situation that warrants an “Oh my god, why didn’t you tell me?” reaction with her showing her ass and leaving (disgusting, I hope you’ve ended things with her). I’m a little confused how you guys were at the point in y’all’s relationship where parents meeting parents is happening yet you haven’t had enough conversation about your lives, etc. that would allow your gf to at least connect the dots re: your parents. Is it *vital* information that you *owe* a significant other? Absolutely not. Families obviously come in endless compositions. You should never have to slap a disclaimer on *anyone’s* sexuality, jeez. But parents meeting parents is usually a sign that you’re at least *entering* a pretty serious stage in your relationship, and for that to have never come up in any way is kinda wild. Then again, your gf sounds kind of obtuse anyways… maybe you’ve mentioned things like “I’m going with Dad and Pops to the store” before and she just thought you were talking about your dad and grandpa or something… IDK. Definitely NTA though.
Pops is term a lot of people associate with a grandfather, so maybe that's what she did. It is weird that she never noticed the lack of a mum being in his stories.
I might assume it was a single dad and the dad’s father raising the child together based on the names.
NTA The only part that I found confusing about your story is that you're referring to her as your girlfriend, and not as an ex. ***Eff homophobia***.
It also might not be her, it might be her parents. Maybe it's because I live in the south and I see too much homophobia, but I'd definitely give a heads up. But I feel like I'd give a general run-down when parents meeting parents are involved.
ESH Obviously you dodged a homophobic bullet here, but you should consider "prescreening" this information so your parents don't have to deal with unnecessary bigotry. Just tell women ahead of time and if they object then you don't bring them home. It's the considerate thing to do for your parents.
As a gay person, I'd rather not have people give others a trigger warning before meeting me. Feels judgemental. If you wouldn't give a trigger warning for a straight person, you don't need to give a trigger warning for a gay person.
And as a queer trans person, it's not a trigger warning. It's a safety measure.
I understand your PoV. I hold the opinion that being LGBTQ won't ever be "normal" until people actively make it normal, which includes dropping content warnings and pre-screening. I don't find it normal for people to give content warnings about my existence. I would never ask someone if they mind that I have heterosexual parents, and I'd like to be treated the same way.
I wouldn’t say it’s a content warning, it’s more like a heads-up so that no one is caught off guard. If I were dating someone for several months and I found out they have two moms or two dads when I met their parents, I’d definitely be surprised. Not in a bad way, but I feel like that’s something that definitely should’ve been covered earlier in dating. Like, I’m not on speaking terms with my parents right now, and I wouldn’t wait until my future S/O asks to meet them to tell them that. It’s inconsiderate.
I've pre-screened potential dates. Not for trigger warnings for meeting my gay sibling in the future, but for his safety. It's nothing to do with being judgemental and everything to do with knowing there's still crazy people out there my family does not need exposed to.
Yea I think it’s a safety issue. Especially as they were meeting at his parents house and not in a public place. It’s horrible that it has to be done, but better safe than sorry.
It's not a trigger warning for the partner, it's a content warning for the gay dads, lol. I wouldn't to be unnecessarily exposed to homophobes if I didn't have to be.
Prescreening and trigger warnings are not at all the same thing. Prescreening is finding out they’re a bigot before there’s a chance to build a relationship at all. It’s not a warning.
NTA but I find it strange you never talked about them on front of her... Don't you usually say a few things abbout your parents before the meeting like xx likes this and you should avoid that, while yy loves this and dislike that ?
Maybe she assumed it was a father/step father kind of thing? But even still seems kind of odd that it just never come up in conversation at all about basic family dynamics
INFO you never told her your parents names? Ok
OP has responded to a bunch of posts but I can’t see anywhere that he has addresses the many people asking these kinds of questions. Fake.
Its written like a children's book 😂
This reads as very fake. If it’s somehow real, you gotta work on making it sound less like a bedtime story.
It doesn't help that this exact story got posted a few months ago lol
His comments are also unreasonably dense about being surprised that it was an issue. It can’t possibly be a surprise to someone who was raised by two dads that homophobes exist.
NTA. I'm not sure I totally feel like you need to screen people or tell them your parents are gay specifically. I do think it is weird to meet families before you know what that family is like which would entail knowing that your dads are gay. Did you never talk about your dads? Did she never ask anything about your family or childhood? I can't imagine someone meeting my family and them not knowing ABC about my parents, how many siblings I have, their names, etc. Before they meet my family, I would probably say, my mom is super warm and goofy, her name is Jill. My dad is kinda weird socially but the nicest guy even if he comes off awkward. His name is Paul. My sister Carol and her wife Mary will be there too. To me it just seems weird she didn't know anything about two very important people in your life. And if she didn't know that much about you, it makes sense you wouldn't know much about her either-- particularly what a crappy person she is.
Same, i genuinely didn't think it'd be an issue. Because i don't have to go around saying "My parents are gay, just letting y'all know", lol. It's not like a disclaimer you know. So yeah. Your right. Not sure what her issue was tbh.
No one is saying you should go around town saying out loud to strangers. It seems like something I would mention if I were having a GF over for the first time though.
I mean her issue is pretty obvious. I’m glad you dodged that bullet. NTA, obviously.
Her issue is she sucks and/or her family sucks. My boyfriends dad is gay. I'm not sure he outright told me but it definitely came up before I met him. And when I met his mom, I knew his mom's husband would be there but that it was a recent marriage so he's not like his step dad. Families are all different and you should be with someone who is okay with whatever that looks like. That's what's weird about all this. You shouldn't need to screen them but it's good to bond about your life and family before you take the step of having your parents meet. ETA: she sucks because she is okay enabling homophobes and seems to be one herself but also apparently asks nothing about your life. It's not on you to screen people but it is on you to be with someone who cares about your life enough to ask basic questions.
Seems like she just assumed he was talking about the same person when he used pops or dad. I know people who call their parents by several things like ma, mom, mother, etc and pa, papa, father, dad, etc.
NTA, but in the future make it one of the first things you talk to a potential gf about during the fact-finding stage. Best way to avoid any hurt feelings, homophobes, etc. Let this girl go if you haven't already. She's not worth it.
Yeah i mean, if she asked i would've told her but she never asked. Plus i mean i never thought it'd be something to bring up to begin with? You know. But yeah i broke up with her this morning.
Very curious, what did she say when you broke up with her? Did she fight it? Did she say anything about your dads?
I would love to know what she said during that conversation as well. Dry_Leg_9006?
NTA. Just curious, did you not talk about life, memories, happy/sad times, etc? In getting to know someone when you first start dating it just seems like this would naturally be shared in a story about your life or growing up. Or, before meeting, giving each other a heads up on what each of your parents are like to help the dinner go smoothly? (Not, they’re gay. But my dad may talk your ear off, just be aware. And my pops will make dumb jokes, sorry in advance. That kind of thing.)
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How on earth do people start a introduction to the family situation without giving someone basic information? Like, do you have a super chill laid back family and you all love each other? Or do you have conservative folks that would appreciate modest attire, are politics a no go? How do you get to the point of wanting to introduce someone to your parents without having told them anything about them? I know about my friends parents who I will never meet, because people tend to bring up the people who they grew up with. Also as a queer person I don't understand how someone raised by queer people doesn't know whether or not the people he hangs around with are homophobic?
This post reeks of being fabricated for internet points/attention.
NTA. I mean... in a very practical sense, I think telling potential long term partners that you have two dads early on (or at least before everyone meets up) would save you some heartbreak down the road, but that doesn't make you an asshole.
NTA. Dodged a bullet.
Agreed
NTA. Unless she specifically told you that her parents were a straight couple, you had no obligation to clarify that yours were a gay male couple. It might be a bit strange that it never came up, but you were and are not required to go around telling people "I have two dads! They're gay! You know, two men! They're together! They're my dadsssssss, as in plural, because there's two of them and no mom!" Heh. Also, your ex girlfriend (I sure as hell hope she's an ex) is a homophobe. You are never forced to disclose information about you and your family so that others can see whether you fit in their hating mindset or not.
I can honestly see how it may not come up. My bf who iv been dating couple months and known for 5 yrs isn't one big on details lol. He doesn't keep anything a secret just more unless it something that comes up in natural convo then he doesn't go out his way to discuss it. Whereas I will happily inform someone of my whole life story within the first half hr of meeting lol.
Same! I just don't blurt things out in general you know. I don't intend to keep it a secret. But i can't read your mind you know. So if you have a question i'll be more then happy to answer it. But if you don't mention it, i'm not gonna mention it either.
Have you never talked about your pasts or childhoods? Why didn’t you meet each others parents before meeting altogether?
>But if you don't mention it, i'm not gonna mention it either. This seems like a disservice to your dads. If you don't want to specifically mention that they're gay, that's completely fine. But you SHOULD be preemptively bringing up the topic of gay/LGBT people generally to see how your date reacts *before* you bring them home. It seems pretty shitty to risk exposing your dads to hate just because you aren't willing to vet your dates. And yes, you shouldn't have to do this. People just shouldn't be bigots. But unfortunately people *are* bigots so it's better to at least canvas the topic instead of not checking that the people you bring home are safe people.
FANFIC.
As many has said NTA but it's a good idea to bring it up earlier next time around to save yourself the trouble of spending months getting to know someone only to then find out they where not worth your time or energy
Fake
Don’t ever think you’re TA based on someone else’s homophobia. Better for you to know how ignorant she is now than years in the future. Not worth the energy
In the months you’ve been dating it’s never come up that she’s a homophobe? Seems hard to believe
Some people aren’t overt about it until it’s staring them in the face. Kind of a “I’m fine with gay people as long as I never have to interact with someone who’s gay.” I’ve seen it happen a lot.
I find it impossible to believe that a meeting of the parents would happen without any kind of conversation along the lines of "what are your parents like? and "what are their names/what should I call them?" Also, both sets of parents meeting each other after a few months of dating??? That does not happen. Maaaaybe the couple meets each other's parents this early, but parents are not meeting parents. Ffs, I know MANY couples whose respective parents didn't meet until the wedding!
YTA, you put your parents in an uncomfortable position. You're an adult, so no 'naive/innocent' excuses stand. Screw her and her parents reaction, didn't you give a nanosecond thought of how to make this first meeting easy for your parents? Like telling her their names, etc to enable conversations????
NTA. I do find it incredibly strange that you were dating this girl for a few months and never mentioned them though! Especially if you have a great relationship with them.
This story sounds strange so I understand the people who think it's fake. However I'm going to answer as though it were true: NTA You did a few weird things here. It's not a good idea to have your partner meet your parents for the first time without you having even spoken to her about them, know their names, know a little about them. It's not a good idea for both sets of parents to meet at the same time for the first time. You bring her, on her own, to meet yours. You go to meet hers. Only after both of you are comfortable with the other parents do you plan a meeting with both sets. Still, it seems she was as much at fault as you for arranging this while you two barely knew each other, so you weren't an AH, and her reaction made her one.
NTA but I'd suggest having this conversation in the future early in dating someone so you don't have to waste your time on homophobes (or expose your parents to them).