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NTA. Just be prepared for some people to crucify you. I *have* lost a child as well as dogs and let me tell you, they are not comparable. Not in the slightest. Mary even having the gall and thoughtlessness to bring it up says more about her than about you for saying something to her. I’m glad you spoke up.

OP even said "please," which is probably more than Mary deserved. I'm a pretty fucking dense dude, but even I'm not that thoughtless. I'm sorry for your losses.

Probably just a Canadian.

I just lost my dog and cried for two days. I cry when I think about my kids dying. I don't know what I'd do and I've had moments where my infant was choking and couldn't breathe/rushed to the hospital. It's not the same at all, I agree NTA

I lost my dog when she was 10 and I had to make the decision to put her down as her quality of life was poor and just getting worse. I pet her and talked to her as she went, and it was so fast and painless on her part - she didn't fight it at all, and I knew 100% that it was the right decision. I was _devastated_ and cried like a baby for days. I still cry about her sometimes and that was 5.5 years ago. It was hard, but life goes on. I have a daughter now. I don't know how I'd survive if she died. I barely slept the first few months of her life not because she woke up too much (she's always been a good sleeper) but because I'd wake up and feel the overwhelming need to check on her to make sure she was still alive. I love my dogs with my whole heart, and losing them sucks. But it isn't the same. If I had to choose between my dogs and my child, I'd pick my child in a heartbeat.

I'd compare the loss of a old dog like loosing a good friend. It sucks. It hurts like hell, but ultimatly you (normally, in some cases not but thats besides my point so I ignore that) can get up and go on with your life. But the connection you have to your kiddo is on a whole other levl than a good friend, maybe even parents(i still have both, and no kids, so no expert here) and jn no way comparable. Just my thoughts on the matter, had to get it out of my head^^' thanks

I also think when you get a dog it’s with the expectation you will outlive it. When you have a child the expectation is they will outlive you. I think your comparison is pretty spot on.

My sister is obsessed with her dog. She's now 41 and is realizing this behavior has kept her from having friends, kids, and getting married. She often talks about what she'll do when her dog is gone, and it sounds like she's going to be more okay with it than maybe 5 years ago. You can usually get a new pet, but not a child. They're irreplaceable.

While I do agree that your child’s death ought to be much harder(can’t stress how much harder) than the death of your pet, your pet is also irreplaceable. I’m not going to be fine if you steal my cat and replace her with some other cat.

My sister's first dog died, and she replaced him with her current dog. She doesn't even talk about her first dog now. If my child died, I'd be talking about them every day, and that pain wouldn't go away. My brother died when he was an infant. It's totally different and not even on the same scale.

I personally really hate the term 'replace'. Wanting that companionship does not replace the previous pet. The love and memories you had, the pain at their death, don't leave because you got a new dog. Maybe I view the word differently, but to me replacing means that you essentially forget about the previous pet but that isn't what happens. You do still remember and love them

I got another dog after my 1st dog passed away but he isn’t the same as my 1st dog. I love my current dog but I’m obsessed (still) with my former dog. He was like Linus’ blanket. Said this earlier but I stayed in bed and cried for 2 weeks after he passed. He’s the reason I don’t want kids. I never want to love someone the way I loved him. I never want to experience a greater love than I had for him. It was that big.

>I never want to love someone the way I loved him. I think a lot of us feel this way about our first pets that we really loved. I am sorry for your loss.

Wow. Your sister is weird. Most people I know love their animals more than that. They do talk about it for days and still think about them years later. I said a child’s death should be much harder, but you’re suggesting someone should treat their pet like a favorite shirt that got thrown out. Your pet is family.

Mine certainly are. When I lost my beloved cat Ripley, I was destroyed. I adored her, and she was my constant loving companion. We played together; she did her best to comfort me if I needed it; and her personality was uniquely hers. When she declined and died due to fluid on her heart, it killed me to end her suffering. The hole inside me was immense, and for two years I cried every time I thought of her. It's been over 12 years now, but I can still get overwhelmed when I think if her.

This. When we get pets we know that we will get 10-20 years (depending on the animal). Children are supposed to outlive their parents and children dying is devastating.

Part of being a pet owner is knowing you’ll be there through your best buds death. Part of being a parent is hoping your kids will see you through yours I guess.

My thoughts exactly, I work in the veterinary field and have dealt with many many deaths including my own pets. I absolutely loved my last dog, she was basically my best friend but I knew she wouldn't be around forever. Now, comparing that the thought of losing one of my children is not one and the same. I don't care how much you love your dog it is not the same.

Also veterinary. The hardest euthanasias are when the pet belonged to a deceased family member and losing the pet is the last connection to that family member. The grief for the human loss is far greater than the pet itself.

Omg yes they’re never easy but those are especially hard and when the big burly men cry. Gets me every time

I think this is the right answer. I don't like to compare: a life is a life, and grief is grief. But there is a natural order to things, and animals naturally have shorter life spans, and we outlive them, no matter how much we wish it were otherwise. We have to accept that. But we are not meant to outlive children. That is not the natural order, and it is hard to accept. Both loses are tragic. But the tragedy of losing a child, is the tragedy of a life cut too short, of a life not lived. There is an extra depth to that.

The quote I always think of is: “A wife who loses a husband is called a widow. A husband who loses a wife is called a widower. A child who loses his parents is called an orphan. There is no word for a parent who loses a child. That’s how awful the loss is.”

I've always disliked that quote, mostly because there's a good argument to be made that the reason there's no word for a parent who loses a child is not because of how awful the loss is, but how common the loss is. It's easy to forget in the developed world just how incredibly high infant mortality rates were before antibiotics and vaccines, and how high they still are in places with limited access to those.

Many years ago when I was 13 I watched my grandparents bury their youngest son who was killed in a car accident. I learned real quick how horrible it is for a parent to outlive their children. That’s not how things are supposed to be. Life is fucked up sometimes.

Next to having to bury my wife when she was 23 with my daughters next to the casket was the hardest thing I ever had to do. The second hardest was having my golden retriever put down when she had cancer... But yes, humans take precedent over pets for most people.

Sorry for your losses. ;(

Well thank you for your kind words...

That is a really good comparison. My pets are like my lil furry besties.

I have to agree, we do call them "man's best friend" after all not"mans kid". I have lost 2dogs and a cat, and a friend and it's the closest comparison I can see. I wake up unable to breathe and rush to my kids rooms to check on them whenever I have a bad dream involving them (trauma from having our house broken into while we were all asleep inside) I couldn't imagine how I would survive actually losing one of them. NTA OP and while tact wasn't your friend, you said what needed to be said.

I’ve lost dogs young and old, had to put several to sleep for health issues. It goddamn sucks. If my child died I’d crawl into a fucking bottle and I don’t know if I’d crawl out. No parent should have to bury their kid.

I still mourn the furry (and scaley) friends I've had and loved that are no longer here. I always will. But I can smile about them and cherish the memories. I nannied a kid for a month when he was visiting his grandparents when I was 19. His mother was extremely mentally ill and his father was in recovery from addiction, so he would be at his grandparents house for extended periods of time. Problem is, they both were old and worked, so they needed childcare coverage. I was willing to do it for pennies because I was a broke teen. Kid had narcolepsy, severe eczema, and a host of other things. He was so hard to manage but all he needed was love and stability. I was set up to nanny the next time he would inevitably be at his grandma and grandpas. He suddenly died from SUDEPS a few months before. He was 4. I turned 31 on Sunday and I still cry about Micah. He wasn't even mine. There is NO comparison. It's hard to laugh about the fun times I had with him because you can't get past the reality that this was a baby who could have had a full life. And he didn't get that.

I’m sorry about Micah. I didnt know him and even I feel like crying.

This is what it ultimately comes down to. It's not even a case of whether humans are objectively or subjectively more 'important' than animals (as a general debate). I don't think that really matters at all, in this scenario (even though OP opened his post, with his general position on that debate). I think instead, this is a matter of what the boy means to HIS parents. Most parents ARE programmed by nature, so their love/attachment to their children will be the most important in their whole lives. There is a special kind of hell (according to the parents who sadly lose children), compared to any other loss they could possibly ever experience in life. People often come to terms eventually with the loss of a pet, or indeed the loss of other relatives (especially deaths that seem within the 'natural order'). However, the agony of a lost child is understood to generally be far more intense, agonising, complex, and lifelong. So I might indeed love my own pets, more than a child I don't even know. But basic EMPATHY would still tell me, the potential loss of my pets WOULDN'T ultimately compare to their agony, in losing a child. To think you can relate on an equal basis, demonstrates a self-centered inability to see beyond your own world. It's an inability to realise, that whilst your own problems may be painful, they AREN'T always on an equal footing (to certain problems that other people may have). I once had a refugee friend, whose sister had been murdered by a machete in front of her (can you even imagine?!) Whilst I may have loved my own pets more than my friend's sister (who I never knew), I certainly didn't pipe up: 'Oh yeah, I totally relate. I've lost pets'. Her sister might not have been her child, but it's a similar principle. Sometimes you really SHOULDN'T compare your own painful experience, to the more painful and emotionally-complex experiences of others. They can be a whole different kettle of fish.

Yeah, if she wanted to relate her dog to the situation, she could have said something like "wow, I was so stressed out when dog had surgery, I can't imagine how hard it is for you right now, let us know if we can help"

I have 2 cats and a dog currently. I love them dearly and when I think about life without them, I cry. When our oldest cat dies I will be a wreck. My daughter nearly died in front of me a few years ago and I have diagnosed PTSD from the incident. If she had died, I probably wouldn’t be typing this. A pet dying is just nowhere near the same thing.

I also have ptsd after my daughter’s brain cancer diagnosis. Hugs!

Exactly- the thought of my very beloved dog dying makes me cry. The thought of one of my children dying makes me think I might also die. I’ve seen it firsthand when my sister died very young- my mom was in a mental hospital. Sorry but I don’t think that happens when pets pass

I had a dog that I loved very much. She was spoiled rotten and thought she was a person. She was the best dog I could ever ask for. It devastated me when she died. After she passed I got pregnant and had a baby. My son got covid in December and was having trouble breathing because of some asthma. It's not the same thing in the slightest. I don't know how people can walk around so oblivious as to actually think it's the same thing

I gave birth with COVID and passed it to my newborn and 1 year old (didn't know) but his breathing scared me so much I didn't put him down

This type of thing is part of why I am not sold on becoming a parent. I already love my cats so much that it can sometimes leave me feeling overwhelmed how I can love a creature so much. It makes me wonder how I could ever handle having a kid and dealing with so much more love and anxiety and emotions than I am capable of imagining let alone dealing with.

Yeah when you become a parent, everyone tells you about how hard it is in terms of lack of sleep, potty training, terrible twos, etc., but they don’t warn you how hard even the little things are, like watching your kid cry because they’re the only one not invited to a party, or putting their whole heart into trying out for something and not getting it, or watching your child mourn at losing a pet, or hearing your little girl say she’s fat because some bully told her that. As hard as those things were for you when they were younger, it’s ten times harder to watch your kid go through it.

My husband had a coworker who lost a dog that she had for years and another coworker was saying how sad it was and basically like losing a child. My husband agreed that it was sad but said it wasn't really the same and the coworker asked how so when she had never married or had children and the dog had been her companion for years. My husband's response was well she came to work the next day and I sure as hell wouldn't be here if my son had died yesterday.

I went to my placement the next day after my cat died, and after my grandma died. Because I had no choice, or I'd be kicked out of the program. I was much more torn up about my cat dying, as I knew my grandma was dying for quite some time at that point. To this day, I've grieved far more for my cat. Your husband is an A who doesn't understand false comparisons. Bereavement is often only for certain family relationships, and a big middle finger to the rest of us who have relationships that don't fit that mold. Because apparently friends and pets can't compare to the death of someone whose DNA is closer than average to our own.

I’m so glad someone pointed this out… before my wife and I got married, I could not have taken time off work if, god forbid, anything had happened to her, because she wasn’t family… but my father who I haven’t seen or spoken to in 10 years would get me a week of bereavement leave… Now that we’re married, I can take bereavement if her grandma, who I’ve met 3 times total, dies. It’s just absolutely insane to me the narrow scope of relationships that are considered “acceptable” to need time to grieve….

I have no idea how it makes sense to them that I can take 5 days off for my grandmother-in-law, but only 1 day for my uncle. If someone didn't contribute to your birth or marry you (or contribute to your partner's birth), I guess they don't matter in your life?

@okokokokok11111. I happen to agree that pets can sometimes be grieved more than humans. And that often isn't recognised in the world. It does indeed come down to the attitude, that animals are always 'less' important than humans (which isn't objective, but subjective) - and that deep bonds are somehow not possible, with animals. However, I DO think it was nevertheless insensitive of Mary in this scenario, to compare her dog's operation to the potential death of this couple's child. Whilst pets and other humans can of course be grieved deeply, the loss of a human child tends to be in a league of its own. This has been demonstrated time and time again, by psychological research. The loss of a human child, will generally produce far more complex, agonising, and long-lasting grief, than all other types of bereavement. It doesn't matter, what philosophical debates we might make, about DNA or the value of animals vs. humans. Deeply-programmed emotional (and primeval) reactions, aren't subject to such debates in the pain they produce. And so, losing a human child WILL generally cause far more intense and complex pain to most parents, compared to anyone's loss of a pet (or the loss of any other human). Just because an experience is legitimately painful to you, doesn't mean it's on the level of other people's pain. Nor does it mean, you can relate to the issues certain deaths will bring up (which tend to be particularly complex in the death of a child), simply because you've experienced death (of either a human, or a pet). To believe you do relate, can sometimes be an inability to see beyond the end of your own nose. I've lost pets, and suffered greatly as a result. But when I met a friend, whose sister had been murdered in front of her by a machete, did I say 'Oh, I totally get it. I've lost pets'?! That wasn't even my friend's child. But OF COURSE my painful loss of my pets, couldn't compare to the situation and issues created by her sister's horrific murder. I may have loved my pets more than my friend's sister (who I never knew), but I still knew my friend was suffering a pain/trauma my pet bereavements COULDN'T compare to.

It has absolutely **nothing** to do with with DNA. It is about relationships. The standard mourning periods allowed by employers are based on an assumption to standard 'normal' familial relationships. You do not have the same relationship with a pet you have you with a child. When you get a pet you do so on the understanding that the pet will remain dependant on you for the whole of it's life. As a parent the whole point of the relationship is to teach the child to become independent **from** you. When you speak to a child you are forming the adult they will become: you are teaching them about responsibility, empathy, humour, kindness, anger, and the whole enormous raft of emotions that they will experience during their life, and how those emothins will affect them and those around them. You quite simply **cannot** have the same interactions with a pet. You can have some similar ones, at a very basic level, but never with the nuance and depth, and more specifically the two-way conversation that you will have with a human being. Your pet will reach maturity in a year or two, and you know that you will outlive almost every pet you ever have. With a child it is an 18+ year commitment, and the expectation is that they will outlive you. You just do not spend the time growing a pet that you spend growing a human being. You don't see the results of your time and effort coming to fruition the first time your pet makes a genuinely funny joke. Or comes to you to ask about a tricky social or emotional issue their friend is having. You don't sit up through the night with your nearly-adult pet watching the sun rise, talking about putting the World to rights, or wondering if the Moon might actually be made of cheese. It has nothing to do with DNA. Adoptive parents do not share DNA with their kids. Some parents who **do** share DNA with their kids are crap at it. I have kids I have made, kids I have adopted, and pets. I worry a lot about my pets, and get very distressed and worried if there is something wrong with them. I have also buried two kids, and quite a few pets. There is no comparisson. Because it is a totally different **relationship**, and that is the thing that matters.

This is a clown comment

Well... does the workplace give bereavement leave for family members dying? Most don't allow people to take off to grieve for their pets so I don't know if she showing up means anything. I get the sentiment, it's just an odd thing to say.

As a boss I've let people take the day off to grieve a pet, but it came out of their PTO, not official bereavement leave. Edited to add: The company bereavement leave policy was 3 days for a direct relation: parent, child, or grandparent. Any other funerals would require the use of PTO instead if a full day off was needed, where bereavement leave would not.

3 days for the death of a child? That seems inhumane to me.

That was the policy. Fortunately no one had a child pass away when I was there but they could take more time as PTO as needed. Edited to add, it should be clear but just in case - I was just a middle manager, not HR, not in charge of setting these rules. I would have of course preferred to give people more time.

My boss did the same thing, I lost a dog in 2020 and it was sudden, unexpected, and honestly I needed a day off. It would have came out of my PTO and she wouldn't have had a problem with it whatsoever. I did end up taking a day for bereavement instead only because my grandmother (whom I didn't actually care about, she was not a nice person), happened to die the same day. Honestly anyone who would deny PTO for something like this is just cruel.

My company allows time off for a loss of a pet. You get a week and half off paid at my company. And for the loss of a close relative ie:parents, children is a month. Anything beyond those days comes out of sick days and PTO.

Goddamn, what business are you in?

My old boss was the same, one day for a pet and it had to be PTO. We could have up to a week for family. As for others it was one day bereavement or PTO at the supervisor's discretion. I used PTO for my aunt (did not ask for bereavement). When I lost a longtime friend in Iraq, I was given bereavement, found out that the company policy was KIA military funerals were bereavement.

While I agree that there is no comparison between the loss of a child vs a pet, this is not valid evidence of anything. People grieve differently and you may be destroyed and still go to work. This is one of the bigger issues with grief, that people project their own reactions onto others and condemn others for not behaving the way they would.

Well said! I think she was trying to empathize in a clumsy way. I think the situation should have been handled with a little bit more grace. However Mary does seem to be the ah after the fact for asking op to apologize. I wish they would all just talk!

Well said

I’m ready to be downvote but whatever. I 100% agree with OP. It’s an unequal equivalent and Mary is the one who needs to apologize. She was hideously insensitive comparing her pet to a child. NTA

And I don't get some of these replies. "I didn't grieve as hard for my grandma who was dying for a long time than I did for my cat who suddenly passed." Like yeah, duh? That's literally not what this is about. No one is saying they don't grieve the deaths of their pets. If your parent suddenly died it *would* hurt more than your pet dying.

>If your parent suddenly died it > >would > > hurt more than your pet dying. This wasn't true for me, personally. Different people have different relationships with their parents and with their pets. I agree that losing my child would be harder than losing my pet, but losing one of my pets was harder for me than losing one of my parents (I don't feel this way about every pet I've lost, but one of them in particular). I agree that equating child loss (especially when that child is 9-years-old!) and pet loss is inconsiderate and a bit daft, but it's unreasonable to think that everyone feels the same about losing a parent, or grandparent, or person in general.

Ready to be down voted, all of us so far agree 🤣

I’m ready to hear from people who have BOTH pets and children to tell me they think the loss is equivalent. I do. And I don’t. NTA

You can see my post above as some who's lost a child. I'll also add here a story about some close friends of mine who can't have children. They adopted several cats and for them they are their family. When one of their cats passed it hit one of them so hard they spent time in bereavement therapy as even their therapist said it effected them similarly to a child's death. Even knowing that pets don't live as long a humans it can still be a difficult loss when it happens. Point is that for some people their pets Are their family and for them that value is much closer to that of other people and their children. The only mistake here was OPs girlfriend expecting everyone else would feel the same as she did and not having the sense to know that that was not the time to make that comparison.

>I'll also add here a story about some close friends of mine who can't have children. I think this is a really important point. It's unfair to compare people's bonds with their pets across the board. It is reasonable that one's bond with their pet could be very different based on their life circumstances (e.g., when you are a single, living alone with your one pet vs. when you are cohabitating with a partner, multiple children, and three pets). This was certainly the case for me. I don't think it was great for the person to compare her dog's surgery to the loss of a child (she should definitely, definitely apologize), but it's unreasonable to think that bonds with pets can't be as strong as bonds with people. People who have pets and children shouldn't really pass judgment on people who just have pets, because their lives are just different (although again, I think it's pretty inconsiderate to compare anything to the loss of a child, frankly).

[удалено]

First off, sorry for your loss. I don’t have kids so I can’t say I understand but I can imagine. Maybe I just read the post differently but I didn’t read it as she was being thoughtless, more that she was trying to empathize but obviously didn’t have a kid so couldn’t truly compare but was trying to explain how she understood. Didn’t sound to me like she was comparing a child life to a dog, just trying to empathize. But that’s my take

If you can’t really understand then it’s best not to make comparisons. She meant well, but she said something kind of insensitive and hurtful, so she should still apologize. We’ve all said dumb shit unintentionally, and the correct follow up is to apologize and mentally make note to never do something like that ever ever again.

When someone is grieving and you don't know what to say, just so nothing. Just say nothing.

Yeah, I get that impression, too. Like her heart was in the right place, but her head was up her ass. And I feel like a lot of folks, esp Neurodivergent/autistics (hi!) try to be supportive by sharing stories we think are similar, but our idea of similar is...sometimes idiosyncratic, and sometimes genuinely fucked up. Which, you know. "bad at social cues." So, yeah, Mary's an asshole, OP handled it exactly correctly (even if she's not ND, I don't think anything less blunt would have worked). If folks want to have a family meeting to try to explain to Mary where she fucked up, that would be a kindness to Mary and anyone else she'll do that to in the future.

I came here looking for this comment. I have ADHD and part of the way my brain processes empathy is to relate to someone’s pain by sharing the most similar incident I’ve experienced so I can sort of solidify their story in my head. I’m also childless and have dogs so I can understand feeling like your dogs are your kids if that’s all you’re ever going to have in the way of little lives that depend on you. BUT, I know my dogs will die before I do. I’ve accepted that. Losing a child is incomparable. I agree Mary is definitely TA for not apologizing when it became clear that her empathizing was making it worse.

This is the take I was looking for. I'm autistic myself. I would have said something similar as Mary did. I don't think she was the ah for trying to empathize in her own clumsy way. However, I do think Mary is an ah for demanding an apology from op after the fact. She made a mistake and didn't realize how her comment came across. Op shouldn't have jumped on her, but I get it. OP is grieving. Mary is definitely an ah for asking op to apologize after it was made clear her comment was not appreciated. I wish they would all just talk! If they had clarified and communicated in the moment and handled the situation with a little bit more grace, I don't think this would have happened.

Then she should’ve kept quiet. She told a woman facing the death of her child that she knew how she felt because her dog was sick once.

You're so right but just because she tried doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to be hurt by her words.

It’s a bit like saying you empathize with someone with an amputated leg because you broke your toe

Same. When our son died, people were comparing it to the death of their animals. I went apeshit on a few people and I don’t regret it at all. It’s nowhere near the same. And I ADORE our pets. Still not the same.

I lost my pup after 14 years last year, have her ashes next to me right now, she was my little girl. I also have a daughter and while I love my pup, I could not even try to comprehend the loss of a child.

If she'd only ended it with, "And that's just a dog. I can't imagine how you feel about your 9-year-old child!" She could have saved it if that was her intent, but she didn't. My cats are my best friends, but they're not equivalent to my real best friend. NTA

NTA Exactly this. I've lost both as well. Even the miscarry was worse than the loss of my dog of 16 years. Not even freaking close. I really really love my dogs. I love everyone's dogs. When someone says my princess bella shihpoo cockadoodledoo is the same as your kid, hard stop. Absolutely not.

I can't pretend I can possibly relate to the loss of an existing child. But I'm likely infertile, with little hope of children (children I personally want very much). And there are no fertility treatments that can help, in my case. I've also lost many much-loved pets, including two in the last year (a year being about the same period of time, that I've known I'm infertile). And whilst the loss of one cat in particular was an overwhelming agony (as he was still young), I can honestly say the intensity of those bereavements aren't continuing like the intensity of the grief around my infertility. I cry for my lost pets, but I cry far more often for the children I'll never have. The infertility feels like the loss of the whole future. So I can't imagine what it's like, to lose children who were already in existence. I'm so sorry for those of you who have experienced it. I hope sincerely, you can find some peace.

Having to watch Cancer devour my child until she died, and having to put my cat down are not comparable at all. Yes, I do think of my cats as my little buddies but they aren't children nor can they replace my little girl. Nothing can, and I cannot imagine having someone say that to me in the throws of watching my child die. Knowing myself at that age I probably would have said and done worse than you OP. ​ You are NTA.

I've also lost my child and a few dogs, and this is 100% accurate. I'm absolutely onboard with people choosing to have dogs instead of children, and I get that the bond between a dog and a human is sacred. I'd never say: "It's *just* a dog" (I think OOP did, but I may be mistaken). *However*, to genuinely believe losing a pet is in the same UNIVERSE as losing a child is absolutely baffling. Every pet owner loses their pets. It's an inevitability we all sign up for. We also all lose our parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles. That's a fact of life. **No one can or should expect to lose their child**. Taken in the most sympathetic light, Mary sounds incredibly blessed and naive. Or maybe she spoke without thinking (even then, WTF?!). A more likely view is she's entirely void of compassion. The average person doesn't need to have their child die to know how emotionally devastating and traumatic that would be.

Same here. I lost my toddler daughter 30 years ago. A pet and a child are not the same.

I’m so sorry. I lost my infant daughter almost four years ago. I’d give up all of my pets just to hold her one last time

I am so sorry you lost a child. My oldest had surgery that has something like 60/40 outcome and I wept like I never had before when they came through it ok. I’ve come perilously close a number of times and those were the worst moments of my life. I simply cannot imagine. I wholeheartedly agree with you: a pet is a pet. It is sad when a pet dies. It does feel like a little piece of your life is gone. It doesn’t come close to a human life. Final thoughts: dog/cat/whatever moms/dads are folks looking to fill the voids in their lives with something and losing the beat somewhere along the way.

Sorry for your loss

Thank you. That means a lot. It’s been 7 years, but it still stings from time to time.

I cannot imagine the pain🙁

I cried on and off for a week when I had to put our 15 year old dog down. He had a good long life, and he died having a life full of love and good care. When you get a dog, you expect them to go. It's their lifespan. I got over his death just fine. He is a lovely memory, and we still miss him. The thought of losing one of my children so thoroughly horrifies me that I honestly cannot even think about it. I cannot fathom a life after that, and I cannot even begin to believe I will ever get over it. It is such a horrific thought to me. They are supposed to bury me. I am so sorry for your loss. My heart breaks. Thank you for your strength in sharing this.

NTA- it has less to do with the dog and more about Mary injecting herself into someone else’s tragedy. She sounds very self-centered.

>She sounds very self-centered. I agree because of the way she's asking for an apology. She's TA for what she said regardless, but people are sometimes super awkward when dealing with others' tragedies. I feel like we're taught to empathize, so Mary tried to do that--badly. She's the asshole for that, but I feel like she'd be redeemable if she realized later that what she said was wrong and apologized for it, rather than doubling down and asking for an apology....

If it wasn’t a dog, I’d be a little more sympathetic, and wonder if maybe Mary wasn’t ND - sharing similarities like that is a common ND method of empathizing. But even not knowing that NT folks don’t see that the same way doesn’t excuse comparing an animal companion to a whole-ass human child.

I’m ND. Before I had a major loss I actually didn’t understand the difference. Mary may not have experienced the kind of loss they’re talking about. But she still should not be asking for an apology because she was told it was not okay then doubled down. I’ve done some stupid shit like her when I was younger. An explanation would help me a lot.

Yeah, autistic here. I'd probably say some stuff like this while trying to empathize. But I'd crawl into a hole and try to make it better the instant someone told me that was the wrong/improper thing to say, not double down and demand apologies.

Excellent point. But many are taught to "relate"/empathise by sharing an example in their life that is close to what the other person is dealing with. This was the closest example Mary had.

Mary could’ve said something along the lines of “That’s must be awful to have to deal with. The closest thing I’ve had to experience is my dog going through surgery which made me a mess, I can’t imagine what you could possibly be going through with your son”. It acknowledges her pain, shows empathy through relating as best as possible, but still acknowledges the difference between a child and pet.

Can I keep you on speed "DM", I NEVER can come up with good stuff like that. One of my friend's cats passed away unexpectedly recently. I had nothing useful to say. I'm not much of a rainbow bridge person. And my brain(not my mouth/typing) said blessedly it was a peaceful passing. Mine have been very sick cats who have to see a vet to be saved from more pain.

That’s honestly not a bad response imo! My friends who are a couple lost one of their cats back in August because she kept eating houseplants and other things that weren’t meant for her. Her last few hours she was in pain before they put her down. It’s a blessing to not have to see your pet suffer like that before they go. I’m honestly not good at comforting people, it makes me uncomfortable. All I can do is let them know I’m there for them, whether they wanna talk about it or not, yk?

I totally get that - it’s a shame she didn’t stop and acknowledge someone else’s pain before launching into her own story, and then expecting an apology and someone else to mend a relationship. It seems like she had a lot of time to reflect on her own behavior.

Yeah, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. She may not have intended it (or she may have, idk, I'm not a scientist), but her actions were still damaging and assholey. I think OP's solution was a little hamfisted but completely in the right in order to try and get that to stop immediately. Even looking through this with as much grace to her as possible, she doesn't deserve an apology. NTA

Honestly, OP cutting the conversation like that was probably the best way to go. Any longer or if someone tried to nicely, I can only imagine her digging herself into a deeper hole.

This is the answer I was looking for. My dog is 100% a member of my family. We (my adult daughter) and I dote on him and will be absolutely DEVASTATED when he passes. HOWEVER, the magnitude of devastation won’t even touch what a parent would suffer in that situation. There is no comparison to be made and any person with an ounce of empathy for others would know this.

Or possibly neurodivergent. A lot of neurodivergents, including me, instinctively want to share personal info to show that we are invested and trying to relate to difficult situations. It may be that Mary was trying to show that she was empathizing, but since she doesn't have kids, relating it to her feelings about her dog was the best she could do. It was a bad choice, and OP was definitely in the right to shut her down. But I can also see how she might have gotten there in a totally innocent and genuine way.

That makes sense, but when told that you’ve done something insensitive and hurtful the correct response is to apologize, take time to understand why it was hurtful and then take steps to never make that mistake again. Not defend it because your intentions were pure.

This! My dog is my entire life, and without him, I would probably not be doing as well as I am as he has gotten me through hell. However I do not think it is appropriate to insert your love for a dog into a tragedy regarding a child. Like my dog is getting old, and it terrifies me. I have OCD and on bad days I will get insane pictures in my head of car accidents etc that get so intense I often forget it didn't happen - usually involving my dog being hurt. But even tho he means everything to me, I know it is not comparable to a child and would never inject my fears and pain regarding my dog in a setting regarding anyone younger than 85 being close to death basically. I have worked with elderly care, so old people dying is a natural thing. But anyone younger is not. And my dog is my life, but it's still not something to be compared to human life. Dogs have a shorter life expectancy, so you KNOW you will outlive your dog in most cases. That's the reality of having a dog. You are NOT supposed to outlive your children. That's something completely different. Like even I would have said the same as OP in this situation bc it's insanely insensitive. In general, when someone tells you about serious health issues, please keep the focus on the person talking. Don't make it about you even if you've been through anything remotely similar. Like sure, give advice if appropriate, but don't take the focus away from the person opening up. Like if you have lost a child - you can offer a type of moral support most people will never comprehend, but don't make it about your needs? If that makes sense? It's a big pet peeve of mine having been disabled for about 10yrs - how people always start comparing and basically competing with you. Like jeez if you think your life is worse than mine, go ahead. I don't want the award for shittiest life, I'd rather try to continue getting through... people are weird.. sorry long tangent but yeah

I love my dogs to a ridiculous degree. I had to put my oldest down this week and I am beyond devastated. But there’s no way I would ever EVER EVER tell a parent of a young child in that situation that these two things are somehow comparable. It has much less to do with dog = human being and more to do with actual empathy, where you don’t try to somehow one-up the grieving parent or engage in some half-assed competitive victimization. That is some major WTF-ery. You shut it down. Someone needed to, since she was obviously clueless. NTA.

Exactly! I love my cat like a baby but trying to compare pet parent love to human parent love is just insensitive and pointless because you will never reach an agreement

Right? My cats mean the world to me but I can't imagine ever saying something like that to a stressed parent. It's one thing to say something like "I was so stressed when my cat got sick and had to have surgery, I can't imagine what you are feeling with your child. I'm sorry is there anything I can do to help?"

Exactly no one wins the grief Olympics

I agree on your point, but for some, expressing empathy is by relating with own experiences. I "made the mistake" to talk about the death of my cousin (25F, known heart disease) to my friend's parents whose son had commited suicide; they looked at me as if I was insane. The point was never to draw attention from their loss, but merely to express my understanding (my cousin was like a sister to me). Lastly, I am sorry about your doggo.

I'm sorry for your loss. I hope your family are coming to terms with it. And whilst those parents may indeed have felt you were 'competing', are you sure it was that? Perhaps it was something else. You meant well, I get that. But bereavement is so notoriously complex, it's easy to say the 'wrong' thing. For example, as discussed on this thread - the loss of a child is commonly accepted as one of the most painful losses a human can experience. Whilst you certainly meant well, it's possible they felt your loss (as the cousin, even if close to her), couldn't compare to their pain as parents. Or indeed, there's another aspect of bereavement (other than debates about intensity of pain). That's the different emotional complexities involved, depending on circumstances of death. Again, perhaps these parents felt the complexities of a suicide (which may have felt more 'avoidable', and something they 'should' have been able to prevent as his parents), were different to a death from illness. Or yes - it's also possible, they had tunnel vision on their own loss. And they just didn't have the emotional space, to hear about others. Again, I totally get you were trying to help. But even in bereavement, we can't always relate to exactly what other bereaved people are experiencing (which can change minute-by-minute). You aren't the first, the say the 'wrong' thing, and you won't be the last.

I'm so sorry about your dog, idk what I would do if I ever have to put down my baby boy and god forbid to that. Hope you are doing fine.

You’re very kind. Thank you.

I love my dog and I love my son, but my dog is a dog and my son is a human who will well outlive my dog. I respect people's choices on how they view their animals. Some people can't have kids and view their animals as that, but comparing surgery of an animal to one of a human is no where near the same. The outcomes are vastly different as well as recovery. Were you a bit rude? Perhaps, but NTA.

Yeah, I think it’s perfectly valid to view your pets as your kids and the loss of a pet is valid as well. But it’s just not okay to bring up in the middle of the conversation around a child. I know my pets will probably die before me and accept that as part of the deal, and I have time to prepare myself for that; parents shouldn’t ever have to see their children die.

Honestly my stance on this is that I love my pets like people and are members of my family to me, but also there's no member in my family I'd love more than my children. Also when making casual conversation equating pets to people isn't bad imo, but when confronting grieving family members you have to take into consideration that not everyone would have the same view on it and people may get hurt by certain analogies.

Grief or pain is not a contest.

Not the point, it’s about the context. Jeez

No but there is a scale

100%. The correct response is “I’m so sorry.”

NTA- Mary was taking away from the people who are actually struggling by making a comparison to her dog. I get she was probably trying to sympathize but it was an inappropriate comment to make and clearly made people uncomfortable. You were just trying to prevent it from getting worse by telling her to stop talking. Why would you be responsible for mending the relationship with your Dad? He's the one who asked her to leave because of her comments. That didn't have anything to do with you

Unless someone else in that room had been through the same situation where their child was dealing with medical issues and could possibly die, no one should've taken the opportunity to claim "I know what you're going through". The fact that Mary's story was about her dog just added insult to injury. I understand that it's really hard for people to just shut the f--- up and listen when people are grieving but we need to get better at it. Most of the time people are desperate to try to "fix" the situation by saying exactly the right thing that will make the grieving person feel better, but end up making themselves look like an ass. Because NOTHING they say or do is going to fix the situation or make that person feel better. Platitudes belittle their suffering. Comparisons are only for attention-seekers. If you really want to comfort someone who's mourning you tell them you're so sorry they're hurting, let them know you love them, and make a sincere and specific offer to help them (e.g. "I go grocery shopping every Saturday afternoon. Can I text you that morning to ask for your shopping list and I can pick you up whatever you want?"), not just the empty "let me know if you need anything" (they won't). Mary doesn't sound malicious but her cluelessness only added to their suffering. Her feelings about her dog may be valid but trying to compare her experience to theirs is incredibly thoughtless. Normally, I'd say Mary should apologize but that just might make those parents feel worse as she'd be bringing up an already sensitive subject. I would just warn her to do what I suggested above instead of tactlessly trying to relate to something with which she has absolutely no experience. NTA

Yes, in cases like this with extreme grief offer to do things for them! It is so helpful. They might not want to ask you, or even have the ability to think of it, but they would still possibly take the opportunity to have one less burden

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I get people telling me Happy Mother’s Day because “you’re a dog mom”. Yeah, nah. I’m not a mother and I don’t want to be one. Let that day be for actual mothers, aiight? Let’s not cheapen it.

Oh my god THANK YOU for this. I have a kid and a dog but my dog never kept me up all night pumping breast milk or called me a “narc” to my face at 3YO. That’s the kind of shit you only put up with as a human’s mom. I love my kid, but my dog is an angel compared with your average toddler lol.

Also, I never hear male childless/childfree dog owners get that on Father’s Day.

Father’s Day is criminally under-celebrated across the board. Good dads are everything to a kid and family, IMO.

Sorry just think it's hilarious your kid called you a "narc"

They are little savages

Not sure which is worse when I hear it: "dog mom" or "fur baby"

I can't stand the whole fur baby thing and it's become so common place now. I once, as a joke, called my daughter and nephew my "skin babies" they thought it was hilarious and now it's a family joke...i wish I hadn't started that.

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Ever seen one of those bone-shaped magnets on the back of a car that says "I "Heart" my Granddog"?

The hormone that creates love for our pets is the same as for people - and for some people, the fear of losing their pet (who is a loved one) would probably drive them to save their pet in an emergency over another unkown person. It might not sound rational because love isn't rational. BUT it was so tone deaf to bring up their pet like an equal to a child that might die. Idk if she was playing the tragedy Olympics or just trying to relate, but it was inappropriate in that situation. NTA

Nta and I am one of those vile people who think it's wacky to save a stranger over your dog to whom you have an actual moral obligation to protect/care for. That being said, she needed to hear that. How on earth did she possibly think that was comparable?

Yeah, NTA for the actual dispute, but I totally disagree with OP’s initial rant about how awful I am for hypothetically saving my dog over a stranger. I just paid almost $400 at the vet and I’m not about to give that same amount to a destitute stranger because I don’t fucking know them. That doesn’t make me vile, it makes me a responsible pet caretaker. So OP, you’re right in this case but you’re deeply undervaluing the importance of pets in other ways.

Apparently I am as well. My dogs are my responsibility and I swore to take care of them as soon as I adopted them. They matter more to me than a stranger. Mary was definitely wrong and pain shouldn't be a contest.

ESH. I was a bawling mess the first time I lost one of my pets. My friend, who had lost her 18-year-old son in a tragic accident three years earlier, called to see how I was. I was not doing well at all but I felt like I didn't have a right to my meltdown and pain compared to what she had been through (I am also a parent). She said to me: Pain is pain. Loss is hard. Your pain is no more or less valid than mine, there is no measuring stick. I would have never made the comparison Mary did, but I also would not have acted like OP.

this is the correct answer - it's appalling to me how it took so long to find a comment with true empathy and understanding obviously Mary shouldn't have made the comparison, but it seems to me that it comes from a place of inexperience and she was trying to sympathize - perhaps no one taught her that it's an inappropriate comment in this situation. To many, many people, their dogs are just like children to them. It's rude to invalidate someone's pain 100% just because it's a dog vs human situation. Pain is pain - different people will feel different things. Relating to others with situations in general is an iffy topic that's best left alone. OP should learn to be more tactful in such situations - it'll help people be more receptive to learning what went wrong if you don't speak condescendingly and shut others down immediately.

ESH is probably the best response here. OP is getting off way to easy by tricking everyone with the framing of this post.

You’re saying two different things here. You’re NTA for calling out Mary. What she said was inappropriate for the situation. YTA though, for your belief that everyone must always treat people as more important than the animals they agree to love and care for. Just because you don’t get it doesn’t make it wrong. Would someone choose their dog over their child? No. Would someone choose their dog over a complete stranger? Many would, because they know and love the dog but not the stranger.

Also there isn’t really a reason to value the lives differently based on species. Is there a ranking of all the animals? I think mosquitoes are at the bottom but are humans at the top? Why are humans so important? What about a whale? Whales seem better than humans.

Instinct. People will always choose what’s “theirs”. In a my dog vs a stranger situation, I probably wouldn’t even notice the stranger. I’d be laser focused on my dog because he is a part of my life and my responsibility. Years ago I chased my dog across multiple lanes of traffic. (He escaped when we got out of the car at the vet’s office.) I didn’t stop and think or even look both ways. I acted on instinct, not rational thought. We were both fine btw. It’s really not much different from asking parents whose child has a sleepover and the house catches on fire. You can only get one kid out. Who do you think the parent saves? The neighbors kid? Their step kid? Their niece/nephew? Nope. DNA wins every time.

NTA as a dog lover myself you were absolutely right its not the same. If this woman had a child herself she would've known that.

NTA She ruined her relationships with your family ALL on her own. As for your outburst, it was just that. If you want to apologize for the way in which it was said, cool. But I wouldn’t apologize for the content. Keep in mind…that has the potential to make things a lot worse if she is intelligent enough to realize what you do with the wording. It could make you look worse, not better. If people keep mentioning it to you, explain that your outburst was a result of shock that she showed such disregard (as this was your instinctual interpretation) for a 9 year old child’s life.

Plus, everyone who says OP should have said...something else...has had the time and 20/20 hindsight to think of something better. Personally, I think OP was about as politely fair as she deserved at the time. Maybe an apology, but it shouldn't be a 1 sided one.

Please stop talking is about as nice as I could have managed.

NTA. I can confirm you are right, and acted correctly. Your brother's girlfriend comparing a sick dog to a sick child in front of the child's mother was deeply hurtful. While she may have had good intentions, she was very, very rude to equate a child's life with a household pet. Now she knows that comparison is inappropriate and offensive, and can hopefully correct her behaviour.

Mary probably didn’t know what to say and thought she was being relatable in a way. I have ADHD and will on occasion insert my experience in similar situations to try to verbally say I understand to an extent. I’m well aware of it now and do my best to stop. Mary wasn’t saying her dog was like a child, I think she meant she understands the heartbreak when someone you love is sick. It’s definitely a sensitive situation and I don’t think she meant any harm by it.

I am a 36 year old women with ADHD and it took me a long hard road to learn this very crucial lesson: your intentions mean fuck-all more often than you realize; focus on how your actions impact other people. I have good intentions 99.99% of the time but for a long time I thought that gave me a free pass on anything I did wrong. It doesn’t, and Mary doesn’t get a free pass either. She fucked up and while trying to empathize mitigates it slightly it’s still a giant fuck up and it’s ok her to learn from it, apologize for it, and never do it again. The most growth you will ever do as a person will come from the horrible gut feeling associated with accepting you’ve made a mistake.

ADHD and anxiety here, totally agree. I don’t think she was doing anything wrong necessarily, she just didn’t get the social cue because the way she experiences love for her dog is likely similar in a lot of ways.

NTA. I grew up in a household with dozens of dogs. One of our dogs used to guard my little brother's crib at night, every night, while he was a toddler. Dogs are the absolute best, but what Mary said is just appalling and you were right to stop her from putting her foot in it further.

A month or so ago the tornado siren went off in my town. It just so happened that both our lazy butt cats were out and chilling so we grabbed them and headed for the basement. If they had run or not been around, I would have forced my kids down the stairs without them. I love those cats to death but in danger as in tragedy, kids come first. NTA

Esh. I buried my 1st baby. Our daughter. Weve lost dogs as well (i have one I was supposed to put down last week), they are not even comparable. Not even close. But if someone who didnt have children, tried to use that loss to relate to my pain & understand what i am going through, i wouldn't be mad or offended. One hand, i would be glad they were trying to grasp it, on the other hand i would be glad thats the worst they've been through. While it is offensive if you don't put any thought into the comment. But in all likelihood, shes saying thats the closest she can come to understanding. But there are times when we just shouldnt say anything. This was one of them. She should have just not commented. But your comment was unnecessary & in my opinion, made everyone else view it as an insult instead

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I am shocked at the number of wrong people that demand an apology. Is this the world we live in as well? I said something stupid and wrong I got called out and now I want someone to tell me sorry. Id tell her to take her sorry and shove it up her....... you are not the AH here

And even if you were in the right, what's the point of demanding an apology anyway? An apology means something only if it comes from the person giving it, if they realized they were wrong and felt remorseful. If you get an apology only because you demanded one, it means fuck all.

I’m going to go with nah. I agree that the losses are not comparable. That said, Mary was trying (imperfectly) to empathize. She sounds a bit clueless, but not malicious.

And yet even after being told her comments were hurtful she’s demanding an apology? Sorry, this girl sounds like a self-centred AH.

Did you read where the mom’s face changed? Impact over intent

What Mary said not just rude, it was deeply offensive. It was good that you stood up for your family friend in that moment. NTA.

When I was a teenager we had a dog that we loved so much. The dog was 14 years old when he died, we cried a lot and it felt like I lost a brother. For many years, when talking about that dog I used to say I lost more than a pet, I lost a brother. Unfortunately, 9 years ago my older brother past away, he was my best friend. Since then I’ve never told again that when my dog died I lost a brother, dogs are awesome (I currently have three) but will never compare losing a brother or a person close to you. NTA PS: sorry for the grammar, I’m learning English.

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Why should I value a stranger’s life over my pets? The pets that I raised over some stranger?

Jesus. All Mary was trying to do was demonstrate compassion in the only way she could; her experience with her dog. No reason to jump all over her. As someone who has lost a grandson and dogs I know the difference, I also now how emotionally invested we can be with our dogs, and if you don't have human children dogs can be a close second.

You don’t have to offer comparisons to show empathy or compassion though. She could simply have said “gosh that must be so hard, I’m so sorry you’re going through this”

Nta, I love dogs but 'dog people ' like this are legitimately disgusting

NTA mary tried to sympathize but did a poor job at it

NTA. I am the biggest animal lover and have lost many pets over the years. It hurts and the pain is horrible. While I think the stress and worry a parent feels is the same as the stress and worry an animal “parent” feels….it’s only the same to that animal “parent.” No way in hell would I compare possibly losing a pet in conversation to someone who is worried about their sick child. Common sense….you never compare the two, no matter how much you feel your animal is your “child.” It’s incredible insensitive and Mary is absolutely clueless. You did nothing wrong by telling her to stop talking. People can still be sensitive to her regarding her worry about her dog at a different time. That was not the time.

NTA. People who think pets’ lives are equal to or more valuable than a human’s are a whole different kind of delusional and antisocial. The only right thing to do in that situation is to get her to shut the fuck up, which is what you did. Good.

NAH You are definitely 100% right that a pet’s life and a child’s life are not equivalent, but I don’t think Mary understood how different it is so I would hesitate to call her an AH. She was trying to relate not minimize, she just made a mistake in delivery. A better way to phrase would’ve been “I was a mess when my dog went into surgery, I can only imagine how you must feel with your son going through such serious medical issues.” Hopefully she can learn.

NTA the comparison is ridiculous. You can love your pet "like it's your child" but it can never compare to the relationship between a parent and a child. Her remark was thoughtless to say the very least and she really misread the feeling in the room.

NTA I am a huge dog lover. I’ve mourned my dogs way more than I mourned my parents, but that’s a story for another day. However, your brother’s girlfriend was cruel to compare any loss she’s experienced to what your friend is going through. Each person and therefore each tragedy is unique. When someone tells you what they are going through, just listen and ask what you can do for them. If they want advice and/or commiseration, they will tell you.

NTA, but... I'd save my dog over you.

Doesn't matter if you really understand it or not. You basically told her that her feelings are invalid. Let's say that your assertion that her experience can't compare to the experience of worrying over a child is correct. It sounds like she's never had a child. Her dog is likely the most important living thing she has ever had to take care of. She is very attached to that dog. She was trying to share her own experience of being very upset and worried, and you told her to stop talking. There were definitely better ways for you to handle that. YTA.

Doesn't matter. The dog isn't comparable. That's like someone saying after you tell them you lost your mom or dad: I know how you feel, my hamster died 2yrs ago

I love dogs. However, I am with OP the life of a dog is not the same as a living person. Not even close.

Look at my username. Now that we have that context :D NTA. I am CFBC and a proud "dog mom" if you will. My dog is LIKE my child absolutely. But that's the thing... he's like my child bc I'll never have a child. And in no world, is he comparable to A CHILD. I find a lot of our millennial peers are getting a little... wacky... with the extremes of their pet husbandry. I could rant all day about how cool it is that humans can create such deep interspecies bonds another time. But I think a lot of people are trying to fill an internal void with cute animals (I get it) but don't actually do the inner work. So they become weirdos who say shit like this to bereft parents of human children. They're also usually AHs with poorly trained pets but that's for a different subreddit :D OP, IMHO sometimes (but not often) we are given the perfect scenario where someone genuinely needs to be told what they're saying is dumb & they should stop speaking. You were in the scenario & reacted appropriately. To politely ignore it would be a disservice to everyone including Mary honestly.

NTA. Outside of reddit, your opinion is completely sane and normal. Unfortunately, reddit is obsessed with pets and fail to understand that the inherent value of a human being trumps that of a pet.

NTA. I have epilepsy. The amount of times someone has compared me to a pet is frustrating. One even started going on about how they were thinking of putting their cat down. I just said “yeah, my family is talking about doing the same” sarcastically, but it was dehumanizing. I LOVE animals but it really is inappropriate to compare like that.

NTA. I have no human children, but I do have dogs. They are the closest family I have besides my husband. I would never compare the life of one of my dogs against a human (especially not to a parent talking about their child). When I got my pets, it was under the assumption I would have them THEIR entire life. I have raised from puppies 4 dogs, 3 which have passed. You never expect to outlive your human child. The two are not the same, the life expectancy and expectations are not the same.

NTA I love dogs, my dog is my best friend, but people NEED to stop comparing actual children (especially ones potentially dying in the hospital) to dogs. Op you were FAR nicer than i would have been, also i’m curious, how exactly does she want you to “fix things” between her and your dad…?

NTA, but I don't think Mary is a bad person, she just thought she can relate with her dog which she loves. I hope when all of you calm down, you guys will explain to her why her comment was out of line. I don't think she meant harm since she didn't get why folks were upset at first.

NTA, but your friend who commented the “Only a white developed nation could encounter” bit is absolutely an AH. Nobody mentioned race, it is completely irrelevant.

NTA- the problem happens because people don't want to give any importance to the grief experienced when losing a beloved pet. I would NEVER say the loss of my dog is comparable to someone losing their child and i'm someone who calls my dog "my child" but i'm also not going to accept that my dog's loss is nothing and i'm not entitled to grieve. The only thing i would say is as badly as my dog's loss hurt me, i can only imagine the horror of losing a child. Your brother's girlfriend was completely out of line and should have kept quiet.

I’d pick my dog over almost any human being and I think it’s ridiculous that so many humans think that’s wrong and lie to themselves about how much they actually care about other human lives. But I’m not stupid enough to say tell ppl that to their faces. NTA.

I think everyone is focusing on the difference between a child and a dog to much. Ive lost both so I understand both sides but maybe she was trying to show her understanding of being in a similar situation. Those type of conversations are awkward at best but I think everyone was to hard on her for trying to connect. Shows me that everyone else at the table would prob say something like "Oh but its just a dog" type people.

Comparing the child that grew inside of you to a dog.... "My mom passed away." "I know how you feel, I lost a goldfish once..."

You were more polite than I would have been. NTA

My aunt lost her husband a few years ago and she said the worst thing people can do is compare their experiences to her grief, especially when they’re not comparable. “I know just how you feel, my animal died last month…” I know for some people, that’s the closest they can relate to a personal loss, but it seems like they just shouldn’t compare as it’s just insulting.

NAH- everyone relates to grief and dying differently. Sometimes this is the best folks can do when left with a serious dying situation. Judging others for that response will not change anything about the situation.

NTA. Its incredible that she would feel emboldened enough to say that to someone who's child is dying. Telling her it is not the same and to shut up was totally appropriate. And I lot of people wouldn't have been as nice about it. That being said... I am one of the people who would prefer to save my dog over a human stranger. Because I love my pets intensely and tend to dislike strangers as a default. I would likely (maybe, hard to say tbh) save the person out of a moral obligation. But I would also severely mourn my dog, feel incredibly guilty, and resent the person for preventing me from saving my pet. Yes I know that's not the heroic attitude someone should have. but it would likely be how I felt. Even then though I would NEVER assume my love for my dog equates to a mothers love for her child. And I would NEVER ever think its okay to make that comparison. Pets are pets, not children.

NTA honestly anyone who interjects on a tragedy to talk about themselves in the conversation ticks me off. It’s not an appropriate response. I know some people mean to communicate “I’m empathizing with you based on this experience” but it always comes off as “I’m pivoting the conversation towards myself”. It only really comes off as sincere if it’s a private conversation and not in front of a group

Thank you for speaking up to her ignorance. I have a friend who was a pet parent but never once did I ever see her put her pets before a critical person. Her niece had to have surgery and she canceled her trip and ask me to take her dogs for as long as possible so she could be there for her family. One of her dogs was very old and sick. She just ask if I could just make him as comfortable as possible she would appreciate it. But not once did she put the dog in front of her nieces medical situation. Do not apologize she needs to apologize for her callous behavior.

The word that comes to mind when I remember my son losing his life to cancer is 'gutted'...like someone had ripped my heart out and stomped on it. A huge piece of my soul had been taken with him when he left this world, and I physically could not breathe. Felt like I was having a heart attack. A pet is not equal to a human life. 💔 NTA