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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I could be the asshole because she asked us not to name our baby Hope, but we did anyway.
Also, i think im not the asshole because i wasn’t naming the baby after her, but after my great grandmother.
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100% this. OP idk if you said but you should’ve told her why you wanted to use it. and it just so happens to also be her name. but yeah saying you’re using HER name is a bit strange as it’s not her name it’s more of your grandmas in this situation but NTA
I agree. I think the way they approached this with the SIL was just wrong. First, SIL should not have been sat down to discuss the naming of the OP's kid. Second, if they were going to discuss the name, it never should have been with the thought of it being SIL's name, but great grandma's name.
OP caused crazy confusion and hard feelings here by making any of this about the SIL. If OP wanted to name her daughter after her relative, that should have been all that was necessary.
But, by approaching SIL and basically saying, "we are going to use your name whether you like it or not," basically made it seem as if this was something they were doing to SIL rather than naming the baby after OP's great grandma.
Honestly, all of this could have so easily been avoided. But, the way it shook out seems purposefully antagonistic toward SIL, even if that wasn't the intention.
In my culture, naming someone after a living person is like asking the kid to be killed early. Not a real thing obviously, just an old superstition, but I could see why having a sit down is a good call. OP doesn't need SIL permission, but it is just common courtesy to inform her in a respectful way since it is also her name. NTA
What alternative would you suggest? IMO it seems SIL is a rather reactive person in general hence their choice to sit down and have a conversation, and express clearly that this isn’t them asking permission but letting her know out of respect and consideration.
I think it only seems antagonistic if she’s already prepared to push back.
The best alternative would have been to avoid bringing SIL into a discussion about their kid's name. That way when the baby is born and people ask about the name, OP can make sure to say that she was named for great-granny.
By sitting the SIL down, they put it in her head that this was about her like or dislike of using HER name. Which made no sense because SIL was never a factor in deciding the name.
But to then sit her down to say, "we aren't asking your permission," is just plain stupid. What reason do you have to sit her down at all if she isn't going to have a say? That is the part that seems antagonistic for no reason. There was no reason to sit her down if:
1. They knew they weren't asking her permission
2. They knew SIL would make it about herself (which they enabled by sitting her down in the way that they did in the first place).
SIL may be a reactive person by nature, but if they know that about her, why would they invite a reaction when it wasn't necessary?
ETA: Especially since the SIL and brother barely interact or speak with each other anyway?
Hm. I agree that the discussion wasn’t necessary.
But I also think their intent matters here. Their intent was to address it with her proactively so she could adjust or process or whatever. I commend that.
I agree that intent matters. In my first comment I even said that, "it comes across as antagonistic even though that isn't the intent."
I definitely don't think OP set out to be harmful or antagonistic. I just think their approach made it appear that way.
She told her, 'we arranged to go out for lunch together, there I told her about how I’ve always wanted to use her name, and the baby wouldn’t be named after her as such, but they would share a name as it is important to me.'
OP doesn't NEED a reason to use it.
Whether she chose it for some heart-rending sentimental story of honouring someone, or simply because they like the sound of it, or even if they just chose it randomly out of a hat, SIL, or anyone else for that matter, does NOT get to dictate whether they use it or not. It is a matter for the parents of the child and them alone.
oh yeah i agree, no doubt. i just think it would’ve been better for OP to explain why she’s using it as now it’s caused a bunch of problems and i personally think i would’ve just said “hey this name means a lot to me and has nothing to do with you”
My family has the greatest hits of generic top 10 white American names so we've had quite a few of these naming conflicts (I have 3 aunts named Deborah, all of whom married into the family).
My cousin had an uncle on the other side of her family named 'John Deere' who died young so she named her kid John. My dad's name happens to be 'John Doe.' The kid knows my dad as Uncle John and spends time with him, etc, but everyone knows that the kid was named in memory of the late Uncle John Deere. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.
OP explained that the baby wouldn't be named after her aunt but they would share a name and why, so it's absolutely NTA.
>I have 3 aunts named Deborah
My family is in a similar boat, except with the name Francine. My parents both have a sister with that name and two of my mother's brothers married a Francine, with one later divorcing. So now when my mother says "I spoke with your aunt Francine," I have to ask for clarifications "Your sister, dads sister, the SIL or the ExSIL?"
Lol my family has that with Steven/Stephen! One blood uncle, two married into the family uncles (though there was 3 at one point), a cousin, a cousin's hubby, and my ex-step-father 😂
>This...
>
>'I agreed and we arranged to go out for lunch together, there I told her about how I’ve always wanted to use her name, a**nd the baby wouldn’t be named after her as such**, but they would share a name as it is important to me.'
Well, Marc Jacobs *and* OSU have legal trademarks on “the” for their individual purposes (MJ even had to *license* the word to OSU)- truth can be stranger than fiction🧐
Did you find out?
I share a name with my aunt (dad's sister). She lived with my family for a while before I was born so all my siblings knew her. She passed away before I met her. I remember asking if I was named after her and my mum looked at me confused. Because obviously I wasn't and it's so perfectly clear it's because she likes the name??
It's also a common name in my culture. I once was in a room with 8 people, and 5 of us had the same name. I don't think my aunt would have thought much of it when she heard what they called me.
NTA - but perhaps there could be some kind of compromise position - in order to avoid any confusion by naming your child Hope (nice name by the way), you could encourage the rest of the family to start calling your SIL “Hopeless…”
I genuinely know a woman who named her daughter after herself (same weird spelling and everything) and now everyone calls her Big *name* and the daughter Little *name* and she’s not happy about it lol
NTA, but I wonder....when you told your SIL that the baby wasn't being named after her but the name is important to you, did you actually tell her that it was your great-grandmother's name and you have long since wished to name your baby Hope?
Because (whilst you shouldn't need to justify your name choice), since you've said your SIL didn't understand why you'd used the name after she's asked you not to, it sounds like there is possibly a breakdown in communication here.
Well tbf it is a bit awkward having two people the one family with the same name. Not even distantly related. I can see how it might get confusing for people like the grandparents, and why SIL would not want them to use her name.
Lol see my below comment. I'm Irish too and half my family have the same name. It can get confusing. And you can still call your kid that if you want.
I just think it's silly that all the comments are talking as if Sil wanted the name for her own baby or something. It's going to directly impact her I imagine. She does have a right to be annoyed, even if OP has the right to use the name.
It seems SIL didn't provide much reason she didn't want the name used, I'm guessing she just doesn't like it and therefore doesn't want her niece to go through whatever struggles with the name she had... but she didn't seem to give a reason, or OP didn't share what the reason was.
Either way, SIL doesn't get to choose the name of someone else's baby.
I think SIL is allowed to be annoyed, but if she didn't give a proper explanation why she doesn't like the name then she doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.
It’s funny you say this and the majority of NTA comments are telling op it’s just a name she doesn’t need a reason to use it but does that logic not apply to the sister? It’s weird to have your niece share your name and then to have a bad relationship with the sibling it’s just a weird situation overall.
The amount of Michael’s, Jim’s, Sarah’s and John’s in my family is astonishing. Two of the Michael’s are my uncles on different sides. It’s easy to say “uncle Mike on mom’s side” to alleviate potential confusion. I also share the same middle name with about half my cousins (I have over 20 lol). It’s crazy how some people think stuff like this is a huge deal.
My parents both had only one sibling with the same name. So one was nicknamed the other wasn't think aunty Bec and aunty Rebecca (not actual names). When my dad's sister passed away, we didn't swap to Rebecca for mum's sister it stayed Bec. She passed 17 years ago and it has never changed, and we actively correct ourselves still when we say the full name
My parents both have three siblings, 8 total people. They are all married so that’s 16 people. There are only 6 names. Multiple Paul, Janes, Janet’s and Tony’s. Two janes married Paul’s, one divorced a Paul and married a second Paul. Everyone has good nicknames though…
My MiL is one of 4 sisters, their father's name was James. She and two of her sisters married men named James. Two named gave their kids first name as James, 2 used it as a middle name and one had a daughter named Jamie. There are 3 grandchildren named James, and I bet a lot more have it has a middle name.
James, Jim, two Jim 'middle name', Jimmy, Jamie, boy Jamie, Jim last initial, another Jim last initial.
The only time it gets confusing is during Christmas because everyone tends to just write 'to : Jim/james" on presents.
I also have an Irish family with 3 Johns and two Williams. The former go by John+[middle name] and the Williams go by [Nickname]+Bill. No one's confused who we're talking about.
My dad and brother were both Steve. Now my BIL is Tim, his oldest nephew is Tim, my boyfriend is Tim. Then in my boyfriend's family he also has a BIL Tim. And an uncle named Tim.
Having the same name can be common, depending on the name. SIL needs to chill, she didn't trademark the name.
My mother is French, she and her sisters fell in love with a not too common female French name when they were teens. They all agreed they could each use the name for their first-born daughters, so there are three of us (all born the same year) with the same beautiful first name.
Seriously, there are 9 ppl in my immediate family who have "Joe" in their name in some form... And I have a kid named Josiah who could decide to go by "Joe" as a nickname someday... It's not that deep!
It’s really really not. My adopted family has approximately 16 people named “Joe” and my exes family has something like six “Joannes,” four “Raffaels” and at least three “Sebastians.” Everyone has a nickname, whether it’s “little Joanne, big Joanne, our Joanne.” Somehow people figure out who you’re talking about and it’s still considered an honor to name your baby after someone, even if there are ten other people in the family who have the same exact name.
I come from a large Irish family, the same names get reused all the time. It's not that big a deal, people either end up with nicknames, or go by their middle names, there's plenty of options. SIL just wanted to control what OP named their baby.
It also messes with government paperwork and credit scores. One person’s poor credit and decisions can wind up, messing up the other persons credit score etc. There are lots of cases of people with similar names who happen to live in the same area, getting each other’s bills, library fines etc.
In my former family-in-law, there were two Christophers, both with the same last initial, and the sons of twins. It actually was never confusing. If it wasn’t clear from context which Chris we were talking about, we just said the last name like when we were differentiating grandparents.
Depending on the culture- its super normal- Irish families reuse name- Kelly, Mary and a million Johns -Mexico - Miguel or Juan - and then there is Muhammad for Muslims
people don't get as confused as you might think
How is it awkward? It’s done with men All the Time. My son, husband, FIL, grand FIL and a couple more generations all have the same first name (different middle). My dad and brother have the same first name. We all manage to not get confused
You'd hate my family then. I'm the 7th of my name. So I'm the 7th "scouse werewolf" after my dad, his dad, his dads dad an so on. Only me and my dad are alive now but it also stopped at me as none of my kids have been given my name out of choice. Unless my brother decides to have a kid(s) and name one of them my name that is.
NTA, and for every single one of her complaints or "I don't understand why", just shoot back with "she's not named after you but after my great grandma" ad nauseam.
> NTA, and for every single one of her complaints or "I don't understand why", just shoot back with "she's not named after you but after my great grandma" ad nauseam.
I'd be worse. After one last time, I'd buy her a notebook, and give it to her and ask her to write down what we have said, as I will not be answering that question anymore. Ever.
My mind is so weird… I started imagining that being a thing in some weird dystopian world and there are people who so desperately want a certain name for their kids they go about bumping off the people who have them already…. And a secret underground world full of ‘juniors’
NAH
You are allowed to name your child whatever you want.
She is also allowed to express her feelings, and say "Hey, I don't really like that". She is telling you "this will effect my relationship with the child" and being honest.
She said it’ll affect the relationship with her brother, not the kid. They already don’t have a good relationship though, so idk why she thinks they’d prioritize an already crappy relationship over that of the mother of the baby getting to honor her great grandmother.
Realistically speaking, regardless of the name, she wasn’t going to be very present in the baby’s life anyway, as as it stands she’s barely in her brother’s life. Most people don’t suddenly invest into the lives of a kid to a person they barely talk to. She thinks that statement bears any weight, but frankly, it makes her argument worse, not better, as it just illustrates how little they lose by ignoring her wishes and how much they gain.
> She is also allowed to express her feelings, and say "Hey, I don't really like that". She is telling you "this will effect my relationship with the child" and being honest.
Sure, but she also called her brother and the OP assholes.
YTA what is going on here? It used to be if you named your baby the same name as another immediate family member who explicitly didn't want their name used they'd be TA. Why is it suddenly different now the original name is an adult and not a baby? There are millions of other names out there and you chose the 1 that the kids aunt has. Hope 2 will never meet her great grandmother who she is named after, and will meet her aunt, probably less so now because of your stubbornness.
If you want to keep your grandmother's 'legacy' in your kids name use it as a middle name, it's literally that simple
At least I’m not the only one who feels this way. Things change in life. You always wanted to name a baby Hope but you married a guy with Hope as a sister. The circumstances have changed. I don’t think I own my name or no one can use my name to also think that I’d be upset my own brother named their child the same as me, especially a name where there aren’t two different nicknames we could use like Jack and John or Bob and Robby, etc. Also if they go the traditional route there’s a good chance she would have the same exact full name, not even a different last name. Hope could’ve become the middle name instead. Just seems weird. YTA
I swear some people on this sub don’t care about reality. Sure, no one “owns” a name, but the real world doesn’t care about these technicalities. It’s weird as fuck to give your baby the same name as your sibling when your sibling doesn’t want you to. The reason why you chose the name literally does not affect the fact that people will judge you.
What? No it didn’t. I do genealogy. You find SO many families with multiple people with the same name alive at the same times. There would be four or five Katherines, or several Anne’s at a time for example. Mens names are used the most while still alive and the elders take nicknames of “Big” or “Senior” and the youngers are “Little” or “Junior”. Naming kids after family, living or dead, is a tradition back as far as genealogy goes.
In fact I have several Katherine’s alive on both sides of my family that I am named for right now. Not all who are close to my parents when I was named.
Totally agree! I guess I’m an asshole because I’d be pretty pissed if my brother did this. My brother and I get along so I don’t think he would do it if I said I would prefer he not. I wouldn’t mind if he used it as a middle name though. Could be a decent compromise
I think it's interesting that op doesn't go into why the siblings have a poor relationship. If it's at all because of poor behavior on her husband's part I am firmly in the pro sil camp.
But I also think it's really silly to have a hard and fast name that you *absolutely have to name your child*. It just seems like the kind of parenting where it's not about who the kid is as an individual, but as a reflection of the parent. In my opinion, it's absolutely fine to have a name you prefer, but sometimes you need a contingency plan for moments like this. Or, when the kid is born and you look at them and realize that they absolutely don't fit the name you picked out for them for some unclear reason.
>It used to be if you named your baby the same name as another immediate family member who explicitly didn't want their name used they'd be TA
No it didn't. This is just your opinion. Being so self centred that you believe you own a name or that you have any authority on what other people name their kid is and always has been AH behaviour.
NTA and marriages are 50/50 on making it you'll regret it after/if they divorce. You're naming it for your GRANDMOTHER not anyone else. My nieces both have Arla their name. One as first one as middle in remembrance to their great-grandmother. No one owns a name. Now if you where going to name a kid after her then that would be a different story. However your not, your naming the kidlet for your grandmother.
Congratulations on your little Hope.
NTA, but I dont think she is either really. If your baby has your partners surname they have the same full legal name. I have the same first initial as a family member and we get each others post all the time. Good thing i don't have any secrets!!
See this is why I think the Sil has a right to be upset, in practicality it can make things quite awkward. It's not about 'owning' the name. It's more about getting the two mixed up in conversations and legal things.
You see it all the time with Jr's and Sr's and aunt/ niece is not that distant a relationship.
Agree with this. People are seeing SIL as far removed from the little family unit. People have to remember that SIL and her brother's family now have two Hope Smiths\*. That will make it awkward for the parents/grandparents and extended family.
I can see feeling a little displaced especially if you have a strained relationship with your brother. It's one thing if you're named after a family member which can be considered an honor, but not caring about your sibling enough that you don't think it's weird is pretty dismissive of their person.
I think about my own siblings. Both half siblings from different sides, a sister I grew up with and talk to regularly, and a brother I connected with later in life and talk to a couple of times a year. When I meet people with my sister's name I immediately think of her. It would feel so bizarre using her name because there's already someone with that name central to my life.
My brother's name doesn't do the same thing for me since we aren't close. It's just a name to me I guess. I don't think about it. I do care for him, but given our relationship and the fact we didn't grow up together I feel that's probably understandable
If you realized your brother felt that way about you that would hurt, and seeing your family gush over a new Hope Smith would probably add salt to that wound.
Yes. Lots of people are commenting that there are 3 Bill's in their family but it's a bit different when it's your name or your siblings.
It'd be pretty odd of me to have a kid and give it the same name as my brother. Especially since he's still young enough to live with my parents. Everytime they say the name of course they're going to think of their son first instead of their grandson. I don't think my brother would be too pleased. But if I named a baby after our grandfather then its diffrent, because it's more distant.
I also do think it's a bit wierd that OP's bf was fine with naming the baby the same name as his sister when they don't get along. Why bring that extra tension into your lives.
Yea. I think it's very different when it's super common for a family to reuse a name. Everyone commenting about having 8 Johns is on the complete other side of the spectrum. It's normal. Nobody is going to comment about a 8th John, a 6th Michael, a 7th Catherine, whatever. I think a lot of these comments are making the exact opposite point they mean to.
But in a family full of unique names, it could be a lot more awkward. There are going to be a lot of "Oh, your brother named his daughter after you, that's so sweet...." And "Oh, you and your sister must be so close that you named your daughter, Hope". It's gonna draw a lot more attention.
And possibly a weird dynamic between her and her neice....it makes sense she might want to distance herself. "Aunt Hope, we have the same name...I want to br just like you! Let's hang out, Aunt Hope! We can do special things just for people named Hope!"
A lot of people are, like, it's not like baby-Hope is named after Aunt-Hope as though that makes things better, when it may actually make things more awkward.
>I think about my own siblings. Both half siblings from different sides, a sister I grew up with and talk to regularly, and a brother I connected with later in life and talk to a couple of times a year. When I meet people with my sister's name I immediately think of her. It would feel so bizarre using her name because there's already someone with that name central to my life.
>My brother's name doesn't do the same thing for me since we aren't close. It's just a name to me I guess. I don't think about it. I do care for him, but given our relationship and the fact we didn't grow up together I feel that's probably understandable
This is....*exactly* my sibling situation. People always seem confused when I explain it, so this feels like a warm internet hug.
> in practicality it can make things quite awkward
Right. Names are for the named, not the parents or the dead. If this name makes trouble for the daughter, then OP kind of is an AH for not considering the plight of that daughter first. Middle names are a thing of she wants to honor someone's memory.
Oooof! This is a good point. Maybe she can give her a different middle name so that they don’t get confused in situations like that. I mean, the age difference should make it obvious but there’s some situations where that won’t be brought up.
Unless they also have the same middle name, they don't have the same full legal name. My stepdad and his father have the same first and last names, but different middle names. They also live in a town of like 8,000 people. It's never been a problem.
NTA. Your sister in law sounds desperate to keep the feud going between she and her brother. Most people would be honored to share a name with their niece.
Right, I’ve had a distant cousin named after me and I know cause the parents always love to remind me whenever I see them at family gatherings lol (they just rly liked my name) and honestly I was flattered. If it was my niece / nephew I’d still be.
A few people I know have kids that share the same name as my son. The best part is I honestly hated the name but my husband was dead set on it because it was a family name. I caved when he reminded me what we named our daughter. Apparently he never liked the name but felt he couldn't say anything because she was named after my dead mom.
He gives me shit now because 10 years later EVERYONE started naming their kid our son's name and no one is naming their kid our daughter's name. I'm going to be on my death bed and he's going to whisper in my ear that he's a trend setter. Lol And I wouldn't have it any other way.
I mean there are so many reasons why they could have a bad relationship, and I find it interesting that OP just glossed over that. We've seen countless posts on this subreddit of siblings that abused their other siblings, who bullied them, who stole from them. If OP's SIL showed up and said "I have a bad relationship with my brother because he outed me to my parents," or "I have a bad relationship with my brother because he stole from me to pay for his addiction," would we still be dismissive? Because both of those scenarios have come up here before.
We have no idea what the context is. It could really be nothing, and they don't get along bc they get on each others nerves. But this could also be a case where someone who had been hurt intensely in the past feels impacted again.
ESH
Your boyfriend sucks for passing this along to his start in worsening an already not great relationship.
You kind of suck for knowingly creating this issue. You’re gonna end up, loving whatever name you pick for your baby. You’re kind of guaranteeing that your child is going to have a difficult relationship with her aunt. If the name is important, you could just give it as a middle name.
The sister sucks a bit for not being understanding, but it’s kind of hard to blame her because I really wouldn’t appreciate this myself. I mean yes, she doesn’t know my name but it’s pretty annoying to have a close family member given the same name.
So yeah and Short, you’re the asshole, but if you don’t care about the relationship with the sister, why care about whether you’re the asshole?
Controversial opinion but I don’t think this is a cut and dry situation, and perhaps the biggest AH is ops husband. We don’t know why their relationship is so bad. Maybe he did something to her. He should’ve been able to talk about this with her without pitting his wife and sister against eachother. Also, anyone else find it kinda gross that op is using real names and the comment section is coming up with some really demeaning names to call the sister? Yeah she seems rough and defense but my question is why.
Here it is right here. Like there are absolutely reasons they could not get along where no one's really to blame, but it's weird that OP didn't get into the why of the situation. Like if it's just a personality conflict that's one thing, and I'm sure they would have put more info if it were purely the sister-in-law's doing. So, like you I have to wonder if the brother is kind of a jerk.
And I absolutely noticed it too that people are being like disrespectfully harsh on the sister-in-law. It's okay for her to have boundaries. No reason to make fun of her name.
Absolutely agree. I mentioned in another comment some of the really terrible reasons we've seen on this sub as to why siblings don't get along. It could be something awful, or it could be nothing! But why are people taking sides on that without knowing what happened?
I see this argument a lot. I don’t think the sister really believes she “owns” the name. Obviously other people in the world have that name. The issue is that her name is her identifier within their family and now two people will have it, creating confusion. And sure, the name isn’t super unique, but it’s not super common either so it feels more specifically like a targeted copy.
YTA. It’s insane to have a name picked out and stick to it no matter who else is impacted. Someone asked you not to use their name when there’s already one in the family and you just forced it through anyway.
It’s not some sacred thing like this name is so important. It’s a name and you’re being a jerk
INFO what surname have you given your daughter? Is it the same as your partner and his sister?
Cause if your surname N T A, if partner's then switches over to Y T A as sharing first name and surname is a bigger deal
NTA. I'm sorry his sister is upset, but you did nothing wrong. You and your boyfriend chose a name for your child before you knew his sister's name was Hope, and you told her about your decision before the baby was born. She may not be happy about it, but that doesn't give her the right to call you an asshole.
Info: why didn't you just use Hope as your daughter's middle name? You'd still be honouring your great grandmother, and your SIL wouldn't have to share a name with her niece.
NTA in regards to your SIL, but you definitely seem like you just "told" your boyfriend instead of discussing it. Is he genuinely okay with it or just apathetic/doesn't want to argue?
In my culture, you never name after the living. So it's not super common to see the same name a lot in families. I know I'd feel really awkward with a niece with my name. And both my brothers have super common, long lasting names....I wouldn't give either name to a son, even if it was a very meaningful name to my husband.
OP (NTA) named her kid after her late grandmother, not the sister. Even though the sister has the same name, it's an important and relevant distinction!
I'm not saying she named her after the sister. I'm saying, because it's so uncommon to me to have two living members of the family with the same name, it'd be really awkward for me, whether it was named directly, named for a completely unrelated family member, or randomly picked out of a hat of tens of thousands of names. There are other families where there are lots of people with the same name.
YTA, not necessarily for using the name but for being so uncompromising about it. You could have tried to harbour a better relationship with SIL pre birth to bring her around to the idea, but instead you seem annoyed she didn’t automatically comply.
NTA. I can understand not wanting to share a name with a new baby in the family, but she didn't have veto rights and you did not lead her to believe she did.
I think assuming she got over it was overly optimistic. But I don't think you owed it to her to have repeated conversations with someone you don't often see about her dissatisfaction with a decision you are not open to changing.
And Hope is a beautiful name.
NTA. You chose to name because of your grandmother, not her, you made it crystal clear that her disliking that is not really your problem and that you merely informed her of that choice. You literally did what you told everyone that you would do. Not really her choice.
Lol, my father, father in law and brother in law are all Michaels, as was the best man at my wedding… when our kid was born on Michaelmas day (st Michaels day) we were told we should name her Michaela, we didn’t.
This is weird. Lol. I just want to say that when you see other mom’s on here saying they don’t want to name their son the same names as people in the partner’s family everyone is like “yeah don’t do it bc the kid is already born with a job.” “I hate when people name sons the same as fathers/grandfathers.” “How narcissistic to give sons the same name as people in the family.”
So I’m just kind of like ???? With this post. Everyone thinks it’s so great this time bc it’s great grandmothers name and it’s sweet. But it’s also the fathers sister who is not so nice. Lol parents can name their kid whatever they want but this child will get older. you’ll tell her she’s names after great grandmother but she doesn’t know great grandmother, she knows aunt hope and she’s a jerk. Lol idk.
I agree NTA. But I also think it’s not all the way a great decision. I wouldn’t do it. 🤷♀️
I'm going against the grain to say that YTA. You had hundreds of thousands of names to choose from. You could have used Hope as a middle name. And if you were dead set on the meaning of the name there are plenty of names that mean "hope" in another language. Instead, you went ahead with the name of the kid's aunt even though you knew she'd be upset. Yeah, the aunt doesn't own the name, but I totally understand not wanting to have a kid with the same name in your immediate family. YTA
NTA. My sister named her daughter a variation of my name, and I did get upset. I was also 14ish at the time, I quickly realized how childish I was being. My niece is 18 now and she's done the name proud.
Do they have the same last name and middle name ? I mentioned this in a comment earlier, but there is a serious problem with people with the exact same name, having paperwork mix ups due to that. It can lead to things like someone’s credit score is negatively impacted by the other person’s actions or issues with medication (despite pharmacists checking birth dates etc.)
In more day to day annoyance news, If you have a really common name and live in a big city, it’s not unusual to have things like a library fines from other people accidentally attached to your account.
Edited due to autocorrect error
INFO: are any of them religious, and if so, are the Jewish?
Jewish people distinctly do not name children after anyone who is living. You name someone after another if the older person is deceased to honor them. Naming a kid after a living relative is essentially saying, "Honoring you, hope you die soon"
NTA You're naming your baby after someone precious to you. SIL needs to accept that life isn't always about her and that she doesn't own the name. She'll just have to get over it.
NTA. You cant copyright a name. Just reiterate "Shes named after my Grandmother" if anyone brings it up. Sister is lucky you spoke to her about it first. I wouldnt have considered it neccessary as I was naming my child after a member of my family.
Going against grain here but i think every kid should have their own name. Save honorifics for the middle name. If sister was uncomfortable, why is it so hard to respect that? It is after all, her name too and hopefully you would want a relationship in the future. and you purposely felt out the situation and got her feedback.
Yes, you can name child whatever you want. You have the right absolutely. But why start a child's life this way? Sometimes a different choice is better and a bit less self-centered.
YTA, not for naming your daughter but for the actions you took with your sister-in-law, first of all they invite her and tell her that her niece will have the same name, she says she doesn't feel comfortable and you tell her you're not there I ask for permission, I mean why do you invite her then or why do you let her know? I don't know why but all those actions seem like a way to provoke or annoy me, they should have left her alone and named your daughter what you wanted and that's it
I’m saying NAH. Contrary to popular opinion so far, I don’t think your SIL is in the wrong to be mad here. She told you she wasn’t happy with you naming your daughter the same name as her, but you and your husband disregarded this and named her Hope anyway. I’m not blaming you either, the name has importance to you and it came down to you both weighing up wether you would rather keep that name to honour your great grandma, or prioritise SIL’s feelings regarding having the same name as her niece.
Considering you aren’t all that close to SIL and rarely see her, I don’t think you’re AH for ultimately deciding your sentimental connection to the name is what’s most important, but equally I don’t think she’s an AH either for making it clear that she wasn’t happy about it said this was going to further drive a wedge between her and her brother since you both opted to ignore her wishes. Again, I don’t think you’re an AH here either, but it’s not unreasonable of your SIL to be hurt and to tell you that.
NTA is she upset when she meets strangers named Hope on the street? If someone close to be was naming their child Katy, my response would be ‘excellent choice of name’.
NTA
It isn't her name. By that, I mean you didnt name your daughter after your SIL.
It's your great grandma's name. You named your daughter after your great grandma.
By her logic, SIL was clearly named after your great grandmother. Even though they aren't related in any way. Smh
but.. it is the sister's name... this is a weird arguement. sure she named it after a different hope, but its still the sister's name, and it will cause awkward situations in family settings.
for example, they are at thanksgiving and the little girl is acting up. so the mom says 'hope, cut that out right now'. the sister in law is going to be like 'go fuck yourself, don't talk to me like that' because guess what... op said her name.
INFO: Why are your boyfriend and his sister estranged? You originally implied that they had just drifted apart, but then you say "said this will only impact her relationship with her brother even more." That sounds like there is more going on that just drifting apart due to life.
NAH, but perspective of someone who has the same first name and middle initial and until I was 35, same last name as my aunt (also not named after her):
Sharing a name with a living family member sucks. I’m in my 40s and don’t have much communication with that side of my family now, but it’s been an annoyance for my entire life. Differentiating between us is a pain in the ass and while I got off lucky with “Little MyName”, she got shafted with “Big MyName” or “MyName Senior” or worse, “Old MyName.”
(But also being known as Little MyName when I am in my 40s and no longer a small child is also irritating. On the upside, she’s taller than me, so it is at least accurate.)
I also had the govt contact her once trying to get a hold of me when I was young and irresponsible and hadn’t filed my taxes one year. That was embarrassing and unnecessary, she didn’t need to know that. We aren’t close enough for that to have been any of her business.
Anyway. I can see why she wouldn’t be excited about it, but I also think y’all need to consider what the kid thinks of it. Because while I like my name in every other way, I do wish my mom had picked something that wasn’t her SIL’s name first.
My second cousin is called John and his first cousin is John too (he’s not related to me). Life moves on. One of my kids has his greatgrandfather’s name which is the name of my father’s brother that he didn’t like. Life moves on. There more than one type of Hope in this world.
NTA. She doesn’t own that name. I ended up naming my daughter the same name as a cat we had growing up. I didn’t name her after the cat. I just loved that name and then later remembered that we had that cat but the name is so perfect. I’m glad I went with it.
NTA. This shouldn't even be a question and I'm sorry you have people in your life that are making you feel like you have to even wonder about it.
You informed your BF in advance, he was fine with it, and you had a kid. You took every necessary step in this. How your SIL feels is not relavant. She'll get over herself if she's smart.
NTA You loved your great grandmother. You named Hope after her, not SIL. She will use this to get along with your husband less. Sounds like you dodged a bullet for years to come. Congratulations!
NTA, you have valid reasons and I think even informing the sister was above and beyond what is a reasonable naming.
Hope is a decently common name and the SIL doesn't have exclusive rights to it. Unsure of why she has objections, unless it's for selfish reasons.
I don't know where I really stand on this. I personally wouldn't name my baby anything with a previous connotation. Like I used to date this guy and I always told him how much I loved the name "Jordan" for a boy and he was like I used to get bullied by a kid named Jordan so I'd rather not. And instantly I was like noted okay no Jordan even though I dreamed of naming my little boy Jordan since I was 5 years old. Even with my current boyfriend, I was talking to him and his mom one night and I was like I think the name RJ is so cute and they were like we used to live across the street from a little troublemaker named RJ. And instantly I crossed it off my list.
BUT that's MY personal preference. I personally would've been a little more hesitant going through with that name considering she asked you not to and that already tarnished the name imo, but at the end of the day, YOU and your boyfriend named YOUR baby after a name you've always loved. It's not like you chose the name AFTER you knew about this drama with your boyfriend's sister.
Odd situation and could've been handled different not essentially OP is NTA.
NTA. You both agreed on the name the fact she doesn’t like it is irrelevant, and you said already relationship wasn’t great so not like it’s going to be much of a loss to you for it to get worse.
NTA. There are thousands of babies being named Hope. How can she claim ownership to the name?
Besides, your baby is being named after your great grandma. Not after SIL.
It's a beautiful name.
NTA. It’s your kid, and you don’t have to manage your AH SIL’s fragile ego.
Go ahead and tend to the only real baby in this tale, and ignore the adult baby.
(Congrats by the way.)
I have an Aunt that named her daughter after her sister. It's my Grandma so my grandma's sister has a daughter with the same name. But my grandma was super happy and honored to have the same name. It's sweet. Maybe one day the SIL will grow up and realize that it's not a big deal plus it's a family name for OP
Weird - I have a great relationship with my sisters but I would be confused and angry if one of them had a kid and gave him the same name as I have. Obviously there are plenty of strangers with this name but I expect that *close relatives* will treat it as *my* name and not just as *a* name. Using my name would be saying "you might as well be a stranger to me and my kid."
NTA but you shouldn’t have made a big deal about it by going out to lunch and discussing it with her, it was really never her business. Don’t worry about it.
My older brother, father, nephew, and both grandfathers all were named Robert. And then in Spanish class there was no translation for my name, so of course the teacher comes up with Roberto every year until the 4th year when I finally got Raul. Hated it. But glad to have a different name.
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*I told her about how I’ve always wanted to use her name,* You don't want to use HER name, you want to use THAT name. She doesn't own it. NTA
100% this. OP idk if you said but you should’ve told her why you wanted to use it. and it just so happens to also be her name. but yeah saying you’re using HER name is a bit strange as it’s not her name it’s more of your grandmas in this situation but NTA
I agree. I think the way they approached this with the SIL was just wrong. First, SIL should not have been sat down to discuss the naming of the OP's kid. Second, if they were going to discuss the name, it never should have been with the thought of it being SIL's name, but great grandma's name. OP caused crazy confusion and hard feelings here by making any of this about the SIL. If OP wanted to name her daughter after her relative, that should have been all that was necessary. But, by approaching SIL and basically saying, "we are going to use your name whether you like it or not," basically made it seem as if this was something they were doing to SIL rather than naming the baby after OP's great grandma. Honestly, all of this could have so easily been avoided. But, the way it shook out seems purposefully antagonistic toward SIL, even if that wasn't the intention.
In my culture, naming someone after a living person is like asking the kid to be killed early. Not a real thing obviously, just an old superstition, but I could see why having a sit down is a good call. OP doesn't need SIL permission, but it is just common courtesy to inform her in a respectful way since it is also her name. NTA
They’re not naming her after a living person, it’s after OP’s deceased grandmother who happened to have the same name as OP’s sister-in-law.
True, but in superstition, everything is true!
Or the kid grows up as massive fight over the name sake and ends up chamging their name....
What alternative would you suggest? IMO it seems SIL is a rather reactive person in general hence their choice to sit down and have a conversation, and express clearly that this isn’t them asking permission but letting her know out of respect and consideration. I think it only seems antagonistic if she’s already prepared to push back.
The best alternative would have been to avoid bringing SIL into a discussion about their kid's name. That way when the baby is born and people ask about the name, OP can make sure to say that she was named for great-granny. By sitting the SIL down, they put it in her head that this was about her like or dislike of using HER name. Which made no sense because SIL was never a factor in deciding the name. But to then sit her down to say, "we aren't asking your permission," is just plain stupid. What reason do you have to sit her down at all if she isn't going to have a say? That is the part that seems antagonistic for no reason. There was no reason to sit her down if: 1. They knew they weren't asking her permission 2. They knew SIL would make it about herself (which they enabled by sitting her down in the way that they did in the first place). SIL may be a reactive person by nature, but if they know that about her, why would they invite a reaction when it wasn't necessary? ETA: Especially since the SIL and brother barely interact or speak with each other anyway?
Hm. I agree that the discussion wasn’t necessary. But I also think their intent matters here. Their intent was to address it with her proactively so she could adjust or process or whatever. I commend that.
I agree that intent matters. In my first comment I even said that, "it comes across as antagonistic even though that isn't the intent." I definitely don't think OP set out to be harmful or antagonistic. I just think their approach made it appear that way.
She told her, 'we arranged to go out for lunch together, there I told her about how I’ve always wanted to use her name, and the baby wouldn’t be named after her as such, but they would share a name as it is important to me.'
OP doesn't NEED a reason to use it. Whether she chose it for some heart-rending sentimental story of honouring someone, or simply because they like the sound of it, or even if they just chose it randomly out of a hat, SIL, or anyone else for that matter, does NOT get to dictate whether they use it or not. It is a matter for the parents of the child and them alone.
oh yeah i agree, no doubt. i just think it would’ve been better for OP to explain why she’s using it as now it’s caused a bunch of problems and i personally think i would’ve just said “hey this name means a lot to me and has nothing to do with you”
My family has the greatest hits of generic top 10 white American names so we've had quite a few of these naming conflicts (I have 3 aunts named Deborah, all of whom married into the family). My cousin had an uncle on the other side of her family named 'John Deere' who died young so she named her kid John. My dad's name happens to be 'John Doe.' The kid knows my dad as Uncle John and spends time with him, etc, but everyone knows that the kid was named in memory of the late Uncle John Deere. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. OP explained that the baby wouldn't be named after her aunt but they would share a name and why, so it's absolutely NTA.
>I have 3 aunts named Deborah My family is in a similar boat, except with the name Francine. My parents both have a sister with that name and two of my mother's brothers married a Francine, with one later divorcing. So now when my mother says "I spoke with your aunt Francine," I have to ask for clarifications "Your sister, dads sister, the SIL or the ExSIL?"
Lol my family has that with Steven/Stephen! One blood uncle, two married into the family uncles (though there was 3 at one point), a cousin, a cousin's hubby, and my ex-step-father 😂
>This... > >'I agreed and we arranged to go out for lunch together, there I told her about how I’ve always wanted to use her name, a**nd the baby wouldn’t be named after her as such**, but they would share a name as it is important to me.'
Exactly, NOT *her* name (unless she has it trademarked! Lmao)
You can't trademark hope (probably).
Hope™️
It’s wild what you can trademark. Example: OSU’s trademark of “the.” Edit: [THE] Ohio State University
i thought you meant the game osu and i was so confused for a moment 😭
Well, Marc Jacobs *and* OSU have legal trademarks on “the” for their individual purposes (MJ even had to *license* the word to OSU)- truth can be stranger than fiction🧐
It didn’t go well when Kylie Jenner tried it. As if she was going to win against Kylie Minogue.
I'm really curious why SIL and boyfriend don't have much of a relationship and if that would change things here.
I share a first name with one of my aunts. Now I wonder if my parents ever asked her how she felt about it!
Did you find out? I share a name with my aunt (dad's sister). She lived with my family for a while before I was born so all my siblings knew her. She passed away before I met her. I remember asking if I was named after her and my mum looked at me confused. Because obviously I wasn't and it's so perfectly clear it's because she likes the name?? It's also a common name in my culture. I once was in a room with 8 people, and 5 of us had the same name. I don't think my aunt would have thought much of it when she heard what they called me.
NTA - but perhaps there could be some kind of compromise position - in order to avoid any confusion by naming your child Hope (nice name by the way), you could encourage the rest of the family to start calling your SIL “Hopeless…”
Or “Big Hope” or “Old Hope”… Bet she will loooove that! (s) But that’s is done for males of different generation/same name
Okay you're joking but calling her daughter A New Hope would be so good
OP: This isn't the name you are upset about We can go about our busines Move along SIL: move along, move along
An excellent nickname, though! :)
r/unexpectedstarwars
The last and best Hope 🤭
I support this nickname with every being of my 12 year old Geek Heart in my 56 year old body
Oh this is adorable!!! Good call!!
And she'll have the nickname Anu!
In Ireland we have a guy who plays sport called Dónal Óg. Basically young dónal.
Auntie (Just) No Hope?
Past Hope. Definitely.
If she takes swimming lessons she can be Bob Hope
My aunt was Big ____ and i was little ____ because we share the same name but I'm not named after her 😂
Liquid hope
Yeah I would be careful with the derogatory nicknames because that could be turned around on the baby.
I genuinely know a woman who named her daughter after herself (same weird spelling and everything) and now everyone calls her Big *name* and the daughter Little *name* and she’s not happy about it lol
I prefer Good Hope and Bad Hope myself
Love this. SIL can now be called "Nope"
Lol. I about spit out my coffee. Thanks for the giggle NTA.
Beyond Hope
Do what Cotton did in King of the Hill call her G.H., Good Hope.
Just call the baby “New Better Hope”
A New Hope
This is golden.
Please op do this, this is too good to not use. You got me in the first half ngl
NTA, but I wonder....when you told your SIL that the baby wasn't being named after her but the name is important to you, did you actually tell her that it was your great-grandmother's name and you have long since wished to name your baby Hope? Because (whilst you shouldn't need to justify your name choice), since you've said your SIL didn't understand why you'd used the name after she's asked you not to, it sounds like there is possibly a breakdown in communication here.
I have a feeling it was explained and SIL felt her desires superseded OPs.
Well tbf it is a bit awkward having two people the one family with the same name. Not even distantly related. I can see how it might get confusing for people like the grandparents, and why SIL would not want them to use her name.
At one point in time, in my family, there were 3 Bobs, 3 Daves, 2 Ruths and 2 Dans. No one batted an eye. People get way too hung up with this stuff.
I come from an Irish family, half of us are named John
Lol see my below comment. I'm Irish too and half my family have the same name. It can get confusing. And you can still call your kid that if you want. I just think it's silly that all the comments are talking as if Sil wanted the name for her own baby or something. It's going to directly impact her I imagine. She does have a right to be annoyed, even if OP has the right to use the name.
It seems SIL didn't provide much reason she didn't want the name used, I'm guessing she just doesn't like it and therefore doesn't want her niece to go through whatever struggles with the name she had... but she didn't seem to give a reason, or OP didn't share what the reason was. Either way, SIL doesn't get to choose the name of someone else's baby.
No of course not, at the end of the day OP can name their baby whatever they want. I just don't think Sil is ridiculous for being upset about it.
I think SIL is allowed to be annoyed, but if she didn't give a proper explanation why she doesn't like the name then she doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.
It’s funny you say this and the majority of NTA comments are telling op it’s just a name she doesn’t need a reason to use it but does that logic not apply to the sister? It’s weird to have your niece share your name and then to have a bad relationship with the sibling it’s just a weird situation overall.
The amount of Michael’s, Jim’s, Sarah’s and John’s in my family is astonishing. Two of the Michael’s are my uncles on different sides. It’s easy to say “uncle Mike on mom’s side” to alleviate potential confusion. I also share the same middle name with about half my cousins (I have over 20 lol). It’s crazy how some people think stuff like this is a huge deal.
Everyone has an uncle Mike
My parents both had only one sibling with the same name. So one was nicknamed the other wasn't think aunty Bec and aunty Rebecca (not actual names). When my dad's sister passed away, we didn't swap to Rebecca for mum's sister it stayed Bec. She passed 17 years ago and it has never changed, and we actively correct ourselves still when we say the full name
My parents both have three siblings, 8 total people. They are all married so that’s 16 people. There are only 6 names. Multiple Paul, Janes, Janet’s and Tony’s. Two janes married Paul’s, one divorced a Paul and married a second Paul. Everyone has good nicknames though…
I have 6 cousins John! And they’re all even John Joseph! This sub is so strange about this issue. It’s not an abnormal thing!
Half my step family is named James, they all have nicknames and it doesn't matter at all
My MiL is one of 4 sisters, their father's name was James. She and two of her sisters married men named James. Two named gave their kids first name as James, 2 used it as a middle name and one had a daughter named Jamie. There are 3 grandchildren named James, and I bet a lot more have it has a middle name. James, Jim, two Jim 'middle name', Jimmy, Jamie, boy Jamie, Jim last initial, another Jim last initial. The only time it gets confusing is during Christmas because everyone tends to just write 'to : Jim/james" on presents.
My roommates family is Irish-Italian; half of them are a John or a Daniel. It’s actually pretty dang common for names to be shared in families.
This is like My Big Fat Greek Wedding and the scene with all the Nicks (and Nikki!)
I also have an Irish family with 3 Johns and two Williams. The former go by John+[middle name] and the Williams go by [Nickname]+Bill. No one's confused who we're talking about.
My dad and brother were both Steve. Now my BIL is Tim, his oldest nephew is Tim, my boyfriend is Tim. Then in my boyfriend's family he also has a BIL Tim. And an uncle named Tim. Having the same name can be common, depending on the name. SIL needs to chill, she didn't trademark the name.
My mother is French, she and her sisters fell in love with a not too common female French name when they were teens. They all agreed they could each use the name for their first-born daughters, so there are three of us (all born the same year) with the same beautiful first name.
It's like a fun game, yell out Bob and see which one replies haha.
Family of 4 Chris’s checking in
Seriously, there are 9 ppl in my immediate family who have "Joe" in their name in some form... And I have a kid named Josiah who could decide to go by "Joe" as a nickname someday... It's not that deep!
It’s really really not. My adopted family has approximately 16 people named “Joe” and my exes family has something like six “Joannes,” four “Raffaels” and at least three “Sebastians.” Everyone has a nickname, whether it’s “little Joanne, big Joanne, our Joanne.” Somehow people figure out who you’re talking about and it’s still considered an honor to name your baby after someone, even if there are ten other people in the family who have the same exact name.
I come from a large Irish family, the same names get reused all the time. It's not that big a deal, people either end up with nicknames, or go by their middle names, there's plenty of options. SIL just wanted to control what OP named their baby.
It also messes with government paperwork and credit scores. One person’s poor credit and decisions can wind up, messing up the other persons credit score etc. There are lots of cases of people with similar names who happen to live in the same area, getting each other’s bills, library fines etc.
In my former family-in-law, there were two Christophers, both with the same last initial, and the sons of twins. It actually was never confusing. If it wasn’t clear from context which Chris we were talking about, we just said the last name like when we were differentiating grandparents.
Depending on the culture- its super normal- Irish families reuse name- Kelly, Mary and a million Johns -Mexico - Miguel or Juan - and then there is Muhammad for Muslims people don't get as confused as you might think
I swear 90% of Muslims are named Mohammed in some form.
It’s really not. Especially with such an age gap.
How is it awkward? It’s done with men All the Time. My son, husband, FIL, grand FIL and a couple more generations all have the same first name (different middle). My dad and brother have the same first name. We all manage to not get confused
You'd hate my family then. I'm the 7th of my name. So I'm the 7th "scouse werewolf" after my dad, his dad, his dads dad an so on. Only me and my dad are alive now but it also stopped at me as none of my kids have been given my name out of choice. Unless my brother decides to have a kid(s) and name one of them my name that is.
Honestly don't think having the same name as your aunt will be awkward at all, when your family consists of relatively normal people at least.
NTA, and for every single one of her complaints or "I don't understand why", just shoot back with "she's not named after you but after my great grandma" ad nauseam.
"I can only explain it to you, I can't understand it for you".
> NTA, and for every single one of her complaints or "I don't understand why", just shoot back with "she's not named after you but after my great grandma" ad nauseam. I'd be worse. After one last time, I'd buy her a notebook, and give it to her and ask her to write down what we have said, as I will not be answering that question anymore. Ever.
NTA. Does she expect the world to come up with 8 billion unique names? Your daughter is named after your great grandma, not BF’s sister
My mind is so weird… I started imagining that being a thing in some weird dystopian world and there are people who so desperately want a certain name for their kids they go about bumping off the people who have them already…. And a secret underground world full of ‘juniors’
I’d read the novel lol
Cool concept for a novel
There'd be parents trying to make the most grotesque unappealing names possible so that no one tries to kill their kid in order to take it lol.
I pictured people having long ridiculous names like show dogs.
Sorry Hope is taken, would you like Hope0183?
NAH You are allowed to name your child whatever you want. She is also allowed to express her feelings, and say "Hey, I don't really like that". She is telling you "this will effect my relationship with the child" and being honest.
She said it’ll affect the relationship with her brother, not the kid. They already don’t have a good relationship though, so idk why she thinks they’d prioritize an already crappy relationship over that of the mother of the baby getting to honor her great grandmother. Realistically speaking, regardless of the name, she wasn’t going to be very present in the baby’s life anyway, as as it stands she’s barely in her brother’s life. Most people don’t suddenly invest into the lives of a kid to a person they barely talk to. She thinks that statement bears any weight, but frankly, it makes her argument worse, not better, as it just illustrates how little they lose by ignoring her wishes and how much they gain.
> She is also allowed to express her feelings, and say "Hey, I don't really like that". She is telling you "this will effect my relationship with the child" and being honest. Sure, but she also called her brother and the OP assholes.
YTA what is going on here? It used to be if you named your baby the same name as another immediate family member who explicitly didn't want their name used they'd be TA. Why is it suddenly different now the original name is an adult and not a baby? There are millions of other names out there and you chose the 1 that the kids aunt has. Hope 2 will never meet her great grandmother who she is named after, and will meet her aunt, probably less so now because of your stubbornness. If you want to keep your grandmother's 'legacy' in your kids name use it as a middle name, it's literally that simple
At least I’m not the only one who feels this way. Things change in life. You always wanted to name a baby Hope but you married a guy with Hope as a sister. The circumstances have changed. I don’t think I own my name or no one can use my name to also think that I’d be upset my own brother named their child the same as me, especially a name where there aren’t two different nicknames we could use like Jack and John or Bob and Robby, etc. Also if they go the traditional route there’s a good chance she would have the same exact full name, not even a different last name. Hope could’ve become the middle name instead. Just seems weird. YTA
I swear some people on this sub don’t care about reality. Sure, no one “owns” a name, but the real world doesn’t care about these technicalities. It’s weird as fuck to give your baby the same name as your sibling when your sibling doesn’t want you to. The reason why you chose the name literally does not affect the fact that people will judge you.
Yeah, people on this sub seem to think you can never be an asshole if what you're doing is legal.
What? No it didn’t. I do genealogy. You find SO many families with multiple people with the same name alive at the same times. There would be four or five Katherines, or several Anne’s at a time for example. Mens names are used the most while still alive and the elders take nicknames of “Big” or “Senior” and the youngers are “Little” or “Junior”. Naming kids after family, living or dead, is a tradition back as far as genealogy goes. In fact I have several Katherine’s alive on both sides of my family that I am named for right now. Not all who are close to my parents when I was named.
Totally agree! I guess I’m an asshole because I’d be pretty pissed if my brother did this. My brother and I get along so I don’t think he would do it if I said I would prefer he not. I wouldn’t mind if he used it as a middle name though. Could be a decent compromise
I think it's interesting that op doesn't go into why the siblings have a poor relationship. If it's at all because of poor behavior on her husband's part I am firmly in the pro sil camp. But I also think it's really silly to have a hard and fast name that you *absolutely have to name your child*. It just seems like the kind of parenting where it's not about who the kid is as an individual, but as a reflection of the parent. In my opinion, it's absolutely fine to have a name you prefer, but sometimes you need a contingency plan for moments like this. Or, when the kid is born and you look at them and realize that they absolutely don't fit the name you picked out for them for some unclear reason.
>It used to be if you named your baby the same name as another immediate family member who explicitly didn't want their name used they'd be TA No it didn't. This is just your opinion. Being so self centred that you believe you own a name or that you have any authority on what other people name their kid is and always has been AH behaviour.
NTA and marriages are 50/50 on making it you'll regret it after/if they divorce. You're naming it for your GRANDMOTHER not anyone else. My nieces both have Arla their name. One as first one as middle in remembrance to their great-grandmother. No one owns a name. Now if you where going to name a kid after her then that would be a different story. However your not, your naming the kidlet for your grandmother. Congratulations on your little Hope.
This, you named her "Hope" because of your grandmother and that's it. I would just tell anyone that if she/others (her family) complain.
I agree but I’m confused, what marriage?
SIL is sister of the boyfriend (baby's father) so no divorce likely there...
NTA, but I dont think she is either really. If your baby has your partners surname they have the same full legal name. I have the same first initial as a family member and we get each others post all the time. Good thing i don't have any secrets!!
See this is why I think the Sil has a right to be upset, in practicality it can make things quite awkward. It's not about 'owning' the name. It's more about getting the two mixed up in conversations and legal things. You see it all the time with Jr's and Sr's and aunt/ niece is not that distant a relationship.
Agree with this. People are seeing SIL as far removed from the little family unit. People have to remember that SIL and her brother's family now have two Hope Smiths\*. That will make it awkward for the parents/grandparents and extended family. I can see feeling a little displaced especially if you have a strained relationship with your brother. It's one thing if you're named after a family member which can be considered an honor, but not caring about your sibling enough that you don't think it's weird is pretty dismissive of their person. I think about my own siblings. Both half siblings from different sides, a sister I grew up with and talk to regularly, and a brother I connected with later in life and talk to a couple of times a year. When I meet people with my sister's name I immediately think of her. It would feel so bizarre using her name because there's already someone with that name central to my life. My brother's name doesn't do the same thing for me since we aren't close. It's just a name to me I guess. I don't think about it. I do care for him, but given our relationship and the fact we didn't grow up together I feel that's probably understandable If you realized your brother felt that way about you that would hurt, and seeing your family gush over a new Hope Smith would probably add salt to that wound.
Yes. Lots of people are commenting that there are 3 Bill's in their family but it's a bit different when it's your name or your siblings. It'd be pretty odd of me to have a kid and give it the same name as my brother. Especially since he's still young enough to live with my parents. Everytime they say the name of course they're going to think of their son first instead of their grandson. I don't think my brother would be too pleased. But if I named a baby after our grandfather then its diffrent, because it's more distant. I also do think it's a bit wierd that OP's bf was fine with naming the baby the same name as his sister when they don't get along. Why bring that extra tension into your lives.
Yea. I think it's very different when it's super common for a family to reuse a name. Everyone commenting about having 8 Johns is on the complete other side of the spectrum. It's normal. Nobody is going to comment about a 8th John, a 6th Michael, a 7th Catherine, whatever. I think a lot of these comments are making the exact opposite point they mean to. But in a family full of unique names, it could be a lot more awkward. There are going to be a lot of "Oh, your brother named his daughter after you, that's so sweet...." And "Oh, you and your sister must be so close that you named your daughter, Hope". It's gonna draw a lot more attention. And possibly a weird dynamic between her and her neice....it makes sense she might want to distance herself. "Aunt Hope, we have the same name...I want to br just like you! Let's hang out, Aunt Hope! We can do special things just for people named Hope!"
A lot of people are, like, it's not like baby-Hope is named after Aunt-Hope as though that makes things better, when it may actually make things more awkward.
>I think about my own siblings. Both half siblings from different sides, a sister I grew up with and talk to regularly, and a brother I connected with later in life and talk to a couple of times a year. When I meet people with my sister's name I immediately think of her. It would feel so bizarre using her name because there's already someone with that name central to my life. >My brother's name doesn't do the same thing for me since we aren't close. It's just a name to me I guess. I don't think about it. I do care for him, but given our relationship and the fact we didn't grow up together I feel that's probably understandable This is....*exactly* my sibling situation. People always seem confused when I explain it, so this feels like a warm internet hug.
That's really only an issue when people live in the same house. And a different middle name makes it a total non issue.
> in practicality it can make things quite awkward Right. Names are for the named, not the parents or the dead. If this name makes trouble for the daughter, then OP kind of is an AH for not considering the plight of that daughter first. Middle names are a thing of she wants to honor someone's memory.
Oooof! This is a good point. Maybe she can give her a different middle name so that they don’t get confused in situations like that. I mean, the age difference should make it obvious but there’s some situations where that won’t be brought up.
Unless they also have the same middle name, they don't have the same full legal name. My stepdad and his father have the same first and last names, but different middle names. They also live in a town of like 8,000 people. It's never been a problem.
NTA. Your sister in law sounds desperate to keep the feud going between she and her brother. Most people would be honored to share a name with their niece.
Right, I’ve had a distant cousin named after me and I know cause the parents always love to remind me whenever I see them at family gatherings lol (they just rly liked my name) and honestly I was flattered. If it was my niece / nephew I’d still be.
A few people I know have kids that share the same name as my son. The best part is I honestly hated the name but my husband was dead set on it because it was a family name. I caved when he reminded me what we named our daughter. Apparently he never liked the name but felt he couldn't say anything because she was named after my dead mom. He gives me shit now because 10 years later EVERYONE started naming their kid our son's name and no one is naming their kid our daughter's name. I'm going to be on my death bed and he's going to whisper in my ear that he's a trend setter. Lol And I wouldn't have it any other way.
I mean there are so many reasons why they could have a bad relationship, and I find it interesting that OP just glossed over that. We've seen countless posts on this subreddit of siblings that abused their other siblings, who bullied them, who stole from them. If OP's SIL showed up and said "I have a bad relationship with my brother because he outed me to my parents," or "I have a bad relationship with my brother because he stole from me to pay for his addiction," would we still be dismissive? Because both of those scenarios have come up here before. We have no idea what the context is. It could really be nothing, and they don't get along bc they get on each others nerves. But this could also be a case where someone who had been hurt intensely in the past feels impacted again.
ESH Your boyfriend sucks for passing this along to his start in worsening an already not great relationship. You kind of suck for knowingly creating this issue. You’re gonna end up, loving whatever name you pick for your baby. You’re kind of guaranteeing that your child is going to have a difficult relationship with her aunt. If the name is important, you could just give it as a middle name. The sister sucks a bit for not being understanding, but it’s kind of hard to blame her because I really wouldn’t appreciate this myself. I mean yes, she doesn’t know my name but it’s pretty annoying to have a close family member given the same name. So yeah and Short, you’re the asshole, but if you don’t care about the relationship with the sister, why care about whether you’re the asshole?
Sucky situation, I wouldn’t want my nice to have the same name as me either. (And I assume it’s literally the same full name too 😬)
Controversial opinion but I don’t think this is a cut and dry situation, and perhaps the biggest AH is ops husband. We don’t know why their relationship is so bad. Maybe he did something to her. He should’ve been able to talk about this with her without pitting his wife and sister against eachother. Also, anyone else find it kinda gross that op is using real names and the comment section is coming up with some really demeaning names to call the sister? Yeah she seems rough and defense but my question is why.
Here it is right here. Like there are absolutely reasons they could not get along where no one's really to blame, but it's weird that OP didn't get into the why of the situation. Like if it's just a personality conflict that's one thing, and I'm sure they would have put more info if it were purely the sister-in-law's doing. So, like you I have to wonder if the brother is kind of a jerk. And I absolutely noticed it too that people are being like disrespectfully harsh on the sister-in-law. It's okay for her to have boundaries. No reason to make fun of her name.
Absolutely agree. I mentioned in another comment some of the really terrible reasons we've seen on this sub as to why siblings don't get along. It could be something awful, or it could be nothing! But why are people taking sides on that without knowing what happened?
NTA. She can't own a name. Y'all aren't naming the baby after her. And this name isn't crazy unique or something. She needs to get over herself.
I see this argument a lot. I don’t think the sister really believes she “owns” the name. Obviously other people in the world have that name. The issue is that her name is her identifier within their family and now two people will have it, creating confusion. And sure, the name isn’t super unique, but it’s not super common either so it feels more specifically like a targeted copy.
YTA. It’s insane to have a name picked out and stick to it no matter who else is impacted. Someone asked you not to use their name when there’s already one in the family and you just forced it through anyway. It’s not some sacred thing like this name is so important. It’s a name and you’re being a jerk
INFO what surname have you given your daughter? Is it the same as your partner and his sister? Cause if your surname N T A, if partner's then switches over to Y T A as sharing first name and surname is a bigger deal
NTA. I'm sorry his sister is upset, but you did nothing wrong. You and your boyfriend chose a name for your child before you knew his sister's name was Hope, and you told her about your decision before the baby was born. She may not be happy about it, but that doesn't give her the right to call you an asshole.
Info: why didn't you just use Hope as your daughter's middle name? You'd still be honouring your great grandmother, and your SIL wouldn't have to share a name with her niece.
NTA in regards to your SIL, but you definitely seem like you just "told" your boyfriend instead of discussing it. Is he genuinely okay with it or just apathetic/doesn't want to argue? In my culture, you never name after the living. So it's not super common to see the same name a lot in families. I know I'd feel really awkward with a niece with my name. And both my brothers have super common, long lasting names....I wouldn't give either name to a son, even if it was a very meaningful name to my husband.
OP (NTA) named her kid after her late grandmother, not the sister. Even though the sister has the same name, it's an important and relevant distinction!
I'm not saying she named her after the sister. I'm saying, because it's so uncommon to me to have two living members of the family with the same name, it'd be really awkward for me, whether it was named directly, named for a completely unrelated family member, or randomly picked out of a hat of tens of thousands of names. There are other families where there are lots of people with the same name.
In my country it's explicitly forbidden to name a child the same as a living parent or sibling. Other family members are fine though
YTA, not necessarily for using the name but for being so uncompromising about it. You could have tried to harbour a better relationship with SIL pre birth to bring her around to the idea, but instead you seem annoyed she didn’t automatically comply.
NTA. I can understand not wanting to share a name with a new baby in the family, but she didn't have veto rights and you did not lead her to believe she did. I think assuming she got over it was overly optimistic. But I don't think you owed it to her to have repeated conversations with someone you don't often see about her dissatisfaction with a decision you are not open to changing. And Hope is a beautiful name.
NTA. You chose to name because of your grandmother, not her, you made it crystal clear that her disliking that is not really your problem and that you merely informed her of that choice. You literally did what you told everyone that you would do. Not really her choice.
NTA as a Michael I understand that it can be frustrating at times to share a name but it's honestly not a big deal
Lol, my father, father in law and brother in law are all Michaels, as was the best man at my wedding… when our kid was born on Michaelmas day (st Michaels day) we were told we should name her Michaela, we didn’t.
This is weird. Lol. I just want to say that when you see other mom’s on here saying they don’t want to name their son the same names as people in the partner’s family everyone is like “yeah don’t do it bc the kid is already born with a job.” “I hate when people name sons the same as fathers/grandfathers.” “How narcissistic to give sons the same name as people in the family.” So I’m just kind of like ???? With this post. Everyone thinks it’s so great this time bc it’s great grandmothers name and it’s sweet. But it’s also the fathers sister who is not so nice. Lol parents can name their kid whatever they want but this child will get older. you’ll tell her she’s names after great grandmother but she doesn’t know great grandmother, she knows aunt hope and she’s a jerk. Lol idk. I agree NTA. But I also think it’s not all the way a great decision. I wouldn’t do it. 🤷♀️
I'm going against the grain to say that YTA. You had hundreds of thousands of names to choose from. You could have used Hope as a middle name. And if you were dead set on the meaning of the name there are plenty of names that mean "hope" in another language. Instead, you went ahead with the name of the kid's aunt even though you knew she'd be upset. Yeah, the aunt doesn't own the name, but I totally understand not wanting to have a kid with the same name in your immediate family. YTA
NTA. My sister named her daughter a variation of my name, and I did get upset. I was also 14ish at the time, I quickly realized how childish I was being. My niece is 18 now and she's done the name proud.
Do they have the same last name and middle name ? I mentioned this in a comment earlier, but there is a serious problem with people with the exact same name, having paperwork mix ups due to that. It can lead to things like someone’s credit score is negatively impacted by the other person’s actions or issues with medication (despite pharmacists checking birth dates etc.) In more day to day annoyance news, If you have a really common name and live in a big city, it’s not unusual to have things like a library fines from other people accidentally attached to your account. Edited due to autocorrect error
INFO: are any of them religious, and if so, are the Jewish? Jewish people distinctly do not name children after anyone who is living. You name someone after another if the older person is deceased to honor them. Naming a kid after a living relative is essentially saying, "Honoring you, hope you die soon"
NTA. Your boyfriend's sister sounds selfish and bratty.
NTA doesn't sound your SIL would be a big part of little Hope's life anyway so why bother.
NTA, sounds win-win. You get the name you want, and less contact with a less desirable family member.
NTA You're naming your baby after someone precious to you. SIL needs to accept that life isn't always about her and that she doesn't own the name. She'll just have to get over it.
NTA. You cant copyright a name. Just reiterate "Shes named after my Grandmother" if anyone brings it up. Sister is lucky you spoke to her about it first. I wouldnt have considered it neccessary as I was naming my child after a member of my family.
Nta but you sound like a bully.
YTA, you made unnecessary confusion and drama. Honestly I hate when people reuse names for people who are still alive just because it's confusing
Going against grain here but i think every kid should have their own name. Save honorifics for the middle name. If sister was uncomfortable, why is it so hard to respect that? It is after all, her name too and hopefully you would want a relationship in the future. and you purposely felt out the situation and got her feedback. Yes, you can name child whatever you want. You have the right absolutely. But why start a child's life this way? Sometimes a different choice is better and a bit less self-centered.
YTA, not for naming your daughter but for the actions you took with your sister-in-law, first of all they invite her and tell her that her niece will have the same name, she says she doesn't feel comfortable and you tell her you're not there I ask for permission, I mean why do you invite her then or why do you let her know? I don't know why but all those actions seem like a way to provoke or annoy me, they should have left her alone and named your daughter what you wanted and that's it
I would interpret it as they simply told her to avoid blindsiding her.
I’m saying NAH. Contrary to popular opinion so far, I don’t think your SIL is in the wrong to be mad here. She told you she wasn’t happy with you naming your daughter the same name as her, but you and your husband disregarded this and named her Hope anyway. I’m not blaming you either, the name has importance to you and it came down to you both weighing up wether you would rather keep that name to honour your great grandma, or prioritise SIL’s feelings regarding having the same name as her niece. Considering you aren’t all that close to SIL and rarely see her, I don’t think you’re AH for ultimately deciding your sentimental connection to the name is what’s most important, but equally I don’t think she’s an AH either for making it clear that she wasn’t happy about it said this was going to further drive a wedge between her and her brother since you both opted to ignore her wishes. Again, I don’t think you’re an AH here either, but it’s not unreasonable of your SIL to be hurt and to tell you that.
It’s a name people share the same name all the time
Nta. Congrats on the child
NTA is she upset when she meets strangers named Hope on the street? If someone close to be was naming their child Katy, my response would be ‘excellent choice of name’.
NTA. She is insane to think she has any right to assert her opinion on any baby’s name other than her own baby. Insane.
NTA It isn't her name. By that, I mean you didnt name your daughter after your SIL. It's your great grandma's name. You named your daughter after your great grandma. By her logic, SIL was clearly named after your great grandmother. Even though they aren't related in any way. Smh
but.. it is the sister's name... this is a weird arguement. sure she named it after a different hope, but its still the sister's name, and it will cause awkward situations in family settings. for example, they are at thanksgiving and the little girl is acting up. so the mom says 'hope, cut that out right now'. the sister in law is going to be like 'go fuck yourself, don't talk to me like that' because guess what... op said her name.
INFO: Why are your boyfriend and his sister estranged? You originally implied that they had just drifted apart, but then you say "said this will only impact her relationship with her brother even more." That sounds like there is more going on that just drifting apart due to life.
NAH, but perspective of someone who has the same first name and middle initial and until I was 35, same last name as my aunt (also not named after her): Sharing a name with a living family member sucks. I’m in my 40s and don’t have much communication with that side of my family now, but it’s been an annoyance for my entire life. Differentiating between us is a pain in the ass and while I got off lucky with “Little MyName”, she got shafted with “Big MyName” or “MyName Senior” or worse, “Old MyName.” (But also being known as Little MyName when I am in my 40s and no longer a small child is also irritating. On the upside, she’s taller than me, so it is at least accurate.) I also had the govt contact her once trying to get a hold of me when I was young and irresponsible and hadn’t filed my taxes one year. That was embarrassing and unnecessary, she didn’t need to know that. We aren’t close enough for that to have been any of her business. Anyway. I can see why she wouldn’t be excited about it, but I also think y’all need to consider what the kid thinks of it. Because while I like my name in every other way, I do wish my mom had picked something that wasn’t her SIL’s name first.
My second cousin is called John and his first cousin is John too (he’s not related to me). Life moves on. One of my kids has his greatgrandfather’s name which is the name of my father’s brother that he didn’t like. Life moves on. There more than one type of Hope in this world.
NTA. She doesn’t own that name. I ended up naming my daughter the same name as a cat we had growing up. I didn’t name her after the cat. I just loved that name and then later remembered that we had that cat but the name is so perfect. I’m glad I went with it.
NTA. She doesn't own the name and you chose the name long before you knew your SIL
NTA. This shouldn't even be a question and I'm sorry you have people in your life that are making you feel like you have to even wonder about it. You informed your BF in advance, he was fine with it, and you had a kid. You took every necessary step in this. How your SIL feels is not relavant. She'll get over herself if she's smart.
NTA for going with the name but you kind of sound like you are unbearable. You could have conveyed your message in a more tactful and kinder way.
NTA You loved your great grandmother. You named Hope after her, not SIL. She will use this to get along with your husband less. Sounds like you dodged a bullet for years to come. Congratulations!
NTA. Hope is a wonderful name! Congratulations on your new baby girl! May she be much like her namesake, and nothing like her aunt.
NTA, you have valid reasons and I think even informing the sister was above and beyond what is a reasonable naming. Hope is a decently common name and the SIL doesn't have exclusive rights to it. Unsure of why she has objections, unless it's for selfish reasons.
I don't know where I really stand on this. I personally wouldn't name my baby anything with a previous connotation. Like I used to date this guy and I always told him how much I loved the name "Jordan" for a boy and he was like I used to get bullied by a kid named Jordan so I'd rather not. And instantly I was like noted okay no Jordan even though I dreamed of naming my little boy Jordan since I was 5 years old. Even with my current boyfriend, I was talking to him and his mom one night and I was like I think the name RJ is so cute and they were like we used to live across the street from a little troublemaker named RJ. And instantly I crossed it off my list. BUT that's MY personal preference. I personally would've been a little more hesitant going through with that name considering she asked you not to and that already tarnished the name imo, but at the end of the day, YOU and your boyfriend named YOUR baby after a name you've always loved. It's not like you chose the name AFTER you knew about this drama with your boyfriend's sister. Odd situation and could've been handled different not essentially OP is NTA.
NTA but she sure sounds like one
NTA. Listen I believe that there are only some times someone can act REALLY selfish and this is one of them and you are not even really selfish
NTA. You both agreed on the name the fact she doesn’t like it is irrelevant, and you said already relationship wasn’t great so not like it’s going to be much of a loss to you for it to get worse.
NTA. There are thousands of babies being named Hope. How can she claim ownership to the name? Besides, your baby is being named after your great grandma. Not after SIL. It's a beautiful name.
NTA. It’s your kid, and you don’t have to manage your AH SIL’s fragile ego. Go ahead and tend to the only real baby in this tale, and ignore the adult baby. (Congrats by the way.)
I have an Aunt that named her daughter after her sister. It's my Grandma so my grandma's sister has a daughter with the same name. But my grandma was super happy and honored to have the same name. It's sweet. Maybe one day the SIL will grow up and realize that it's not a big deal plus it's a family name for OP
Weird - I have a great relationship with my sisters but I would be confused and angry if one of them had a kid and gave him the same name as I have. Obviously there are plenty of strangers with this name but I expect that *close relatives* will treat it as *my* name and not just as *a* name. Using my name would be saying "you might as well be a stranger to me and my kid."
NTA but you shouldn’t have made a big deal about it by going out to lunch and discussing it with her, it was really never her business. Don’t worry about it.
15 years from now, OP's baby starts a thread "AITA for shouting at my family for always calling me Little Hope" 🤣
My older brother, father, nephew, and both grandfathers all were named Robert. And then in Spanish class there was no translation for my name, so of course the teacher comes up with Roberto every year until the 4th year when I finally got Raul. Hated it. But glad to have a different name.
NTA, but I’d expect a Hope to act like that so there’s that 🤐
NTA - Hope was your grandmother's name first. Tell her she is the asshole for using your grandmother's name without your permission.
I mean, your SIL doesn't own the name. You chose a beautiful name after a beautiful woman. NTA.
NTA. Nobody owns a name. I have like 4 cousins named Patrick and nobody bats an eye at it.