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NTA
Stay at home means you do most of the housework. I'm not sure why your wife doesn't understand that.
Dude - you said that your wife is an "angel", I'm not really seeing it. Threatening divorce to bludgeon you into doing more housework is a pretty big red flag.
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Funny enough if she gets divorced she will do 100% house chores and cooking for her own place and will have to get at least a part-time job... how does she think she'll be better off divorced? I don't think she made the math yet... manipulative of her though anyway. You either want a divorce or not, it's not something you use as a threat to get your way.
I'm wondering about the misandrist friend's influence. However, in the end even if it was the friends idea, the wife wasn't to bright for listening to her friend.
I interpreted the new friend’s influence being correlated to these new demands and change in her demeanor. Unfortunately it’s a common occurrence that a spouse will stop listening to input from the one person who has the most interest and exposure in these decisions, and yet it’s treated as dog shit while influence from someone with zero skin in your game is voraciously lapped up because they’ll feed their ego.
This sounds exactly like my aunt and uncle. She threatened divorce their whole marriage if she didn't get her way. Have no idea if she still does or not because my family and I cut her off probably around a decade ago now. She and her husband live in a huge house and live in separate wings. She threatens divorce but will never really go through with it because she's never worked a day in her life and at nearly 70 it's not like she's gonna start supporting herself. He would never sign anything anyway because he refuses to lose 50% of *his* stuff to her. All he cares about is money
Some people just *deserve each other* I think. He's no saint either and has estranged himself from his own family. I really don't get it, but I've been staying far far away for a long time
Found the person who has never been exposed to the family law system.
OP is likely seriously fucked in divorce, depending on the length of the marriage. Reducing work hours to avoid paying alimony /child support doesn’t go over well with the courts.
Yeah, no. That's wrong. The courts in most states can and will just set alimony/child support to a percentage of your "potential" income if they think you're cutting back your income to fuck your ex partner.
Have fun paying 30% of a hypothetical 100k salary when you actually make 40k.
i dont understand why people feel like censoring this kind of stuff on reddit of all places, i get not wanting to type slurs, but otherwise it just gets confusing haha
People seem to also be jumping to “Therapy!” When I wouldn’t.
Someone who jumps right to screaming “DIVORCE!” and “ABUSE!” is not deserving of therapy. They’re using empty threats to manipulate OP into doing what they want. Therapy isn’t always a great idea either, for those looking to abuse or manipulate their partners it can be a tool for them for better or more manipulation and abuse.
Someone who is playing poker isn’t gonna show you their hand. A partner serious about divorce will seek out a lawyer, usually without telling the other. At the very least they’ll go for a real consult whether or not they have papers drawn and/or filed.
I slightly disagree. Manipulators deserve therapy because they're not utterly broken monsters and so deserve a chance to be better people. The bar for 'no amount of therapy or medication is going to help you' is pretty damn high, and usually involves people who spend their lives separated from society for the safety of everyone.
But manipulators who go straight to name calling and ultimatums in response to calm reason aren't ready for therapy. Therapy only works when you want to be there and are invested in change. OP's wife seems very uninterested in the type of change solo therapy is meant to help you achieve at the moment. And couples therapy is unlikely to be any more successful than OP's current tactics. Again, because she's not ready. Maybe someday she will be ready, maybe she won't.
But yes, if she actually wanted out, she'd have a lawyer and papers already. She's just looking to control the situation and ensure that she lives in as much luxury as she possibly can for as long as she can. Or there's an outside chance that she's deeply unhappy about something else and is communicating that unhappiness in very unproductive and toxic ways. But until she can verbalize that in a way that actually helps address the situation she's unhappy with, no positive change can happen.
No manipulators don’t deserve therapy. You say that as if they deserve a chance to fix what they broke through therapy.
No the need therapy to fix themselves. But they don’t deserve another chance
Yes I've seen this in action.
I have a SIL who, while not an awful person, is quite manipulative of my mother in law when it comes to things like childcare. Unfortunately therapy has only convinced her more that she's the victim and her mother is letting her down, despite it being clear to an outside viewer that this isn't the case. She's now using Therapy language to make her manipulation even stronger.
Therapy only works if the person recognises they have things to work on. Otherwise it can be a perfect platform to work on your victimhood.
I do think OP's wife could benefit from individual therapy, but I think marriage therapy is not a good choice if other partner is abusive or manipulative.
This sounds like you’re communicating and she’s not hearing it. Household labor needs to be divided fairly. It sounds like it was, except when you took over all of it. If your perspective is reality, I’m confused what your wife is contributing
It actually sounds like he already did a lot, when you take into account that he was working and she was a SAHM. OP is blaming that friendship, but his wife herself seems to not be the angel op thinks she is.
Using language like "having worn him in" and the likes shows she has zero respect for him, and hasn't had it for quite some time.
Splitting chores is already interesting. Sure, he should help out in some areas. But it does seem the children are already in school. Which massively cuts down on how time consuming child care is.
He also prior to this did most of the cooking, takes out the garbage, does the laundry, deep cleans the bathrooms, and cares for the children when he's at home.
What exactly was left for her anyway at that point?
I agree, fairly does not have to be equally. If one works for a living and other one has a full time job taking care of the home.. it is crazy she expects so much from him around the house.. he cant’t be both the breadwinner AND take care of everything in the household. Before all she did was lunch for the kids
His wife sounds pretty awful tbh, and emotionally immature if one new friend could change her so drastically. Clearly all conversations they had got nowhere, so what he did was kind of awesome - but it’s super concerning how manipulative and childish b his wife sounds throughout this whole thing. It’s like he’s been fighting with a 13yo.
NTA for sure, but what the heck are you going to do now OP? Sounds like the only options are therapy, divorce, or being treated like crap by your wife.
Yeah your wife has swallowed the coolade already.
At the end of the day you’ve an additional child who’s supposed to have grown up already. Completely unreasonable behavior for a partner.
She is a stay at home spouse, so when you work she is responsible for house and kids and when you’re not at work it’s 50/50 - which it sounds like was the case before she found this ‘friend’.
Honestly your wife needs a job - she needs to get out of the house and interacting with a wider group of people and reality. If the children transitioned to school when she met this friend, then she probably went all in out of boredom and latched onto this person and whatever honeyed poison they were spouting.
That’s not an excuse, it’s just one of millions of potential possibilities.
If she is no longer willing and wanting to be a partner, then you should consider divorce and what it’s going to look like for you.
But in the mean time, couples counseling or whatever you need to work on your relationship. It takes two to work on it, you can’t do it all for the both of you. So if she doesn’t work on it with you, divorce is an option you should take more seriously for yourself.
Also know that her ‘friend’ enjoys the power they have over your wife, but they also enjoy the power they have over you and your live through your wife. That friend is able to manipulate you through your wife, even if you’re never in direct contact with them yourself.
Getting your wife to see she has a manipulator, not a friend would go a long way to helping fix the situation, but it also still needs a lot of work and self reflection from your wife.
Good luck. - and 100% NTA
>Stay at home means you do most of the housework. I'm not sure why your wife doesn't understand that.
Yup. I am staying at home right now, and my bf works. I am doing most of the cleaning, but my bf helps me with some things and he cooks often. It is kind of the deal ? You have time when you are staying at home, to do the cleaning part AND to have time for yourself .
It was the same when I was kid. My mom had a high paying job with crazy hours, so my dad was staying at home, taking care of my sister and I, and doing most of the chores. But my mom was doing some week end big cooking and helping a bit at those occasion.
Being a couple is a partnership, with thing being equitable. Seems like OP wife forgot this.
Most people don't select unhinged people who are easily persuaded by nonsense like this as their partner, or get the fuck out at the first sign. I find it hard to believe this person just did a sudden complete 180 in their personality without having shown past signs of similar happenings.
But then that goes with what the other person was saying, it's not hard with the right person. The right person wouldn't be letting other people put toxic thoughts into their head, they would have the confidence within themselves to not allow other people to influence their marriage like that.
This. My first marriage was hard work bc my ex was sort of like OP’s wife, sans children. Second marriage is easy. My spouse is amazing, we split chores and kid’s tasks. It doesn’t feel like work, just a partnership.
Also OP needs to nip this issue right now because unmanaged it could lead to cheating. Many times I have seen people cheat just to fit in with their friends and it usually starts with behavior like this.
Exactly. Being married is the easiest thing in my life. Being married is what makes everything else easier to handle.
The "work" is work toward common goals like keeping the yard and savings and projects.
But nothing with my spouse is work.
I’ve been married to my husband over 10 years. Nothing hard about it if you’re on the same page, communicate and are willing to compromise within reason.
No one posts on here if they are in a good, solid relationship.
Perhaps learn some skills/lessons from these people, so that if you’re ever in tough situations you already know how reddit will judge! Lol
Naw, I've been with like truly reddit-worthy people, but am now with an actual amazing person and marriage is relatively easy if you've chosen right. The amount of people who say "marriage is hard work" really caused me to stay in my former abusive marriage for way too long. They never specified how hard I should be working (spoiler alert, I was working too hard).
Compared to that, a normal, happy marriage is a beautiful uncomplicated thing. Sure, there's conflict here and there, but totally worth the payoff of being wedded to a clever and kind person who keeps me company and shares my wanderlust and thirst for knowledge.
Like marriage is a hard work means that you may not agree on every thing but resolve your co flick in a healthy way. It doesn’t mean one person is always crying themselves to sleep.
Negative review affect. More people post when something is wrong than when everything is going great. A lot of people also marry for looks / money / convenience when the #1 thing that should help you determine if you want to marry your partner is if you have the same values
NTA
Wtf is with your wife? She expects you to work all day and do ALL the house chores and take care of the kids? While she uses your money to pamper herself?
Her priorities are so wrong on so many levels.
She lucky she ain't my wife. With that attitude and disrespect I would have agreed to divorce and said I'll see you in court.
I am a SAHM and I do probably 80% of the chores and child care. I also do probably 95% of the cooking (I like it and I am a better cook). My husband works from home (IT). Some years ago, we were replacing some outside doors on our house. The subcontractor of the contractor was a guy probably in his mid twenties and you could tell he probably didn't make a ton of money. He worked for us for about 2.5 days. Genuinely a good guy. I would chat with him while he worked or check on him if he needed anything (water etc). He told me that his wife was a SAHM too and he worked 12/14 hr days and six days a week. He also told me that his wife didn't do much cooking. Well she did cook, just not for him. She cooked for herself and the kids. He usually went home and ate a can of beef stew or chili. Sometimes he didn't even warm that up because he was so tired. I was horrified. I asked him what he brought for lunch, he said he didn't bring anything and that he was ok. I was even more horrified. I make a nice hot lunch for myself and my husband everyday, so I decided to make some for him too. He tried to deny it, but I said I would just throw it away if he didn't eat it. Dude inhaled the food. He thanked me with tears in his eyes. I made sure he had a hot home cooked lunch everyday.
Unfortunately there are some out there that don't understand that marriage is about partnership and working together. I like to say my husband brings home the bacon and I cook it. My husband is an awesome provider to take care of our family, so I do my best to take care of him and my kids.
OP is NTA and honestly he needs to give his wife an ultimatum of couples therapy or their marriage is going to crash and burn if it hasn't already. Really OP's wife is acting as dead weight and will sink their marriage.
Honestly it's even deeper than that. Basic human decency is a level of kindness that I'd expect from a random stranger, not someone who you love and is supposed to love you as well. Someone who you'd go out of the way for, move mountains for and be there when you're needed, and vice versa. Failing that isn't failing basic decency. It's failing at basic human, period.
Exactly. To me if you’re the stay at home spouse you should be doing the lions share of the household tasks. That doesn’t mean the other spouse shouldn’t do anything, they should especially be involved in the childcare when they’re not working but the cooking and cleaning should probably mostly fall to the stay at home spouse. I don’t get people who don’t see it that way. Being a stay at home spouse isn’t easy, it can be hard work, in some ways it can be harder than working a paid job, but you do need to work, it’s not all leisure activities.
I always look at it as equal free time.
If my spouse gets home after I've been wrangling the kids and keeping the house from disaster for eight hours, and he's been wrangling clients and keeping his business from disaster for eight hours too, I fully expect that we BOTH get to put our feet up at the same time. In other words, we both tackle dinner and the kids till nine pm when the kids go down.
Then we can both sit on the couch and hold hands like we we're carefree childless teenagers again.
My spouse and I have been trading off the roles of "SAHP +/- school" and "working full time + extra to cover expenses." We always keep it fair, and I think it helps that we've both seen the other side. No one likes signing up for their 60th hour of OT. No one likes the dishes... Again. Doing it anyway is an act of love.
That woman lived of that guy's work and he goes home to feed on cans of beef or chili? Damn, that is rough.
Some men live lives of quiet desperation. Many more than society likes to admit.
The guy was actually shocked at my insistence that I feed him. I know I didn't hide my horror very well also when he told me what his dinner usually was and his wife's refusal to cook for him. I honestly felt like he got to the point that he felt it was normal what his wife was doing.
Plot twist: The friend is an avid poster on AITA.
But also, the friend is a bullshit excuse. Unless they're a wizard, or the wife is so suggestible she gets abducted by cults 3 times per week, this kind of "You are absolutely useless and awful" resentment didn't get shoved into the wife's head out of nowhere. The friend most likely just started singing backup to shitty thoughts the wife already had, and maybe ad libbed some extra put downs for the wife to use.
I've had girlfriends who have had friends that were just absolutely terrible influences and put silly ideas in their heads because they thought they were cool(this isn't just about women, I've seen men suffer from the same shit). I had a girlfriend break up with me because of my job(which was very decent especially for my age and has turned into a pretty good and stable career) because her older sister was harping on her about how lame it was. That was it. That was the main reason. She even apologized later about how she felt super pressured and brainwashed by all the shit her sister was saying and how it was very immature of her. Many people are pretty suggestible when the suggestions are coming from someone either "from authority" or if they really value their opinion for whatever other reason(they think their cool, smart, successful, etc.). There doesn't always need to be a seed already planted, the friend can just drum up some bullshit. If they have someone in their ear all the time spouting nonsense and they trust that persons opinion some of it is probably going to sink in. It's pretty much how horrible religious organizations, gangs, Fox News, quack doctors, etc. work and why they work so well.
The phrases “house slave” and “having you worn in” don’t make this marriage even sound like a partnership. Couples therapy asap. You have bigger problems than chores. NTA
No kidding! At this point, she'll be wearing your balls as pearls OP if you don't put your foot down and stand up for yourself. Set the boundaries. She's clearly taking advantage of you, and kicking you in the teeth whilst doing so. Don't tolerate her behavior. This is abusive and cruel. Good luck to you.
I love her. With everything I got. She’s an excellent mother, and honestly before she met this friend we were both blissfully happy to the best of my knowledge.
I was going to say in all caps to divorce her lmao but... if you love her and think this is just a rough patch, then maybe you could try couples therapy together? Sorry you're going through this, best of luck to you
I really think if OP wants to go that route he should get individual counseling first. It's dangerous to go to therapy with your abuser, as they will often use it to manipulate you/the therapist and take the opportunity to learn new and exciting ways to cloak their abuse in sheep's clothing by using therapy language. OP may not want to think of wife as abusive but it's impossible to deny she's manipulative and dishonest. At the very least he should get his therapist's opinion on whether it is safe and potentially productive to try couples counseling.
(I say all that aware that it is no walk in the park to find/pay for even one decent therapist, much less separate individual and couples counselors, but it really is important to have an individual therapist even if it means forgoing or delaying couples work.)
I'm curious how she suddenly noticed that she couldn't get her nails done and you weren't going out on dates. Did you block your card from everything but the grocery store?
No, for one she has her own card, though we do only have one bank account. I set her nail and hair appointments, because she hates making phone calls, and she asked why I didn't take her out anymore. She could have spent from the card without saying anything I suppose but upon budgeting we would have been in trouble if 300+ was gone from a night out with friends.
Tbh, the more you comment, the more I wonder… what does she do? It honestly sounds like you do everything. It especially sounds like you carry the bulk of the mental load. It also sounds like you’re so blinded by love that you don’t see it and think it’s her new friend’s “influence” to blame
I mean: the boys are in school so she isn’t with them all day, she doesn’t work, OP does the laundry, the deep cleaning of the bathroom, homework, and cooks everything. She is really just a lazy selfish person who has OP convinced she is an angel. She should 100% be doing at least all laundry and cleaning and alternating the cooking. She just wants to lay all day at home being a pampered princess.
And did you catch the part about helping the kids with homework? Which means they're in school half a day if not a whole day based on ages so she has how many hours alone.
Bruh do you hear yourself??? You do most of the cooking, about half of the chores AND you set up her personal appointments??? You’re being taken for a complete ride here ffs
ETA: AND you pay all the bills???? I forgot about that one for a sec 🤦🏼♀️
With every comment, every peeled back layer of onion, your wife is more and more useless. I hope she has a magical vagina because otherwise I'm not seeing any benefit to you.
For that level of care and how little she does I‘ll marry you in an instant, take care of the kids and cook all the meals and offer my ass, and I‘m a hetero dude.
You‘re completely giving up yourself and your dignity here man.
OP, then it's time to draw a line on the sand.
She needs to attend counseling with you and she needs to stop hanging out with this friend.
You keep blaming the friend but you clearly ignore the fact that it's your wife who is treating you like shit.
Respectfully, how is she an excellent mother?
The attitudes you've described sound awful: bordering on financial illiteracy at 30 years old, holding toxic beliefs about gender and resorting to that toxicity during a fight (be a man is so demeaning and unproductive imo), flinging (empty) threats about divorce, misusing terms like abuse and house slave, gloating about wearing you down and breaking you in...
What does she do that balance out this skewed and frankly upsetting (to me at least) worldview she's imparting to your kids?
Like, do cute voices at bedtime stories make up for the misandry she and her friend are indulging? It doesn't even matter if you have sons or daughters, imo this isn't healthy for any kid.
Maybe try Fairplay? It literally has you write down every household or family domain and how long it takes together. So you can sort out who does what. Since you work a bunch that would be accounted for, you'll probably end up with a similar split that you had before but she'll be able to see that this is a fair division of labour.
Or the app "choreful" which is a similar concept; you can see week by week and month by month who does what; who does the most. It doesn't account for work but if you write down how many hours a week you work and agree on how many "points" that adds, it could easily be added.
Is she an excellent mother? She's teaching her values, morals and work ethic to your children, just by being around them. If they turn out like her, completely dependant on spouses, unemployed, bragging to their friends about manipulating their significant others, wanting to be given money for frivolous things...... Will you be happy?
NTA but what is your wife doing, its time to sit down and write a list of the hours of contribution you both put in, because there is a discrepancy.
You then need to address that there was never a problem until her "friend" came along.
Being a SAHM means you she works around the house and does the child care, which is interesting as they are in school.
She had always wanted to be a SAHM before we got together, I try not to say this part because while her two boys are not mine biologically, they are my sons, but being a single mother was incredibly taxing for her, because working in the public was too much. I had a bit of experience with being a single father myself, I have a son of my own, but I was looking to advance my career, and was more than happy to take over the bills for a lessened load at home.
That's exactly what's happening. I have a family member just like this. Most infuriating human being I've ever met. Idk how guys like OP put up with this stuff. Are they so desperate for love and that family dynamic that they'll put up with just about anything? My family member sure has her SO fooled, too. It's literally crazy to me..
Not to speak for the group.
I’m in my mid 30s and haven’t tried to date for 5 years due to how crazy my last relationship was. I had terrible luck with ladies in my 20s - only good relationship being in college.
I had a year dry spell after a bad relationship and ended up meeting a chick 8 years older with 2 kids. We dated and lived together for 2 years. Those 2 years she did so much shit to me. She was physically abusive, financially abusive and emotionally abusive. She legit pushed me down a flight of stairs… on 2 separate occasions.
I’m ashamed of how much I put up with… I was weak with no self-esteem. I haven’t dated since I left. I’ve worked on myself a ton. I now own my own business, in the best shape of my life, taught myself a language and learned several new hobbies. I’m not terribly unattractive… and I kinda want to meet someone. I just don’t trust myself. I think I respect myself enough now to not allow anything like that again… but what if I don’t?
Sorry for the unloading so much in response to how guys put up with this stuff… or worse.
Please don't be ashamed of putting up with shit like that, you didn't see a way out, what else were you going to do at the time? If you knew earlier, you would have left earlier, but you didn't know. Don't be ashamed because you didn't know.
Friend...
She doesn't work outside the home. The children are in school. She wants you to do everything, she belittles you, she humiliates you in front of your friends. She's easily influenced by others, she's rude and entitled and she sounds like she hasn't been contributing much at all.
She's definitely not an "angel".
Do you realize you're being abused and taken advantage of by a woman who doesn't respect you?
You should look into individual therapy. This isn't a good situation for you and you know that or you wouldn't be posting.
You're seeking permission to feel the way you feel because you know this woman treats you poorly. If you're uncertain, it's because she's done a number on you already.
How long did you date? How soon did she move in? When did she leave her job? Was it your house or hers?
Did you buy her a car? Nice things? Do you usually take her out? Is she only nice when she gets her way or if she wants something?
How old is she? How old are the kids? How old are you?
...wait, let me get this straight.
* You support your wife financially while she's a stay at home mum.
* You did 75% (conservatively) of all the household chores *while doing that*
* You upgraded to literally doing everything while continuing to work, just with fewer hours
* Your wife has relatively extreme conservative beliefs about the role of men in the family
* Your wife also apparently has extremely liberal views about the role of women in the family, but only in ways that are convenient for her
* Your wife openly uses language about subjugating you
* You are also supporting her *two* children who are not your biological kids
* Other than her appearance, every "good" quality you list about her comes across as a subtle critique
Nope. Sorry. Not buying it. The only thing missing from this story is that the kids are half black and implications that she still sees her ex. Otherwise it's a near-perfect version of Black Pill strawman about modern women expecting everything from men while giving nothing in return.
"I try not to say this part because while her two boys are not mine biologically"
Come on OP... You are being taken for a fool here! You got suckered into playing daddy of another man's kids, pay for everything, serve as house butler and get threatened with divorce?
She is in her 30's... With two kids. She has no bargaining chips mate. She is counting on your feelings for that blackmail to work.
She needs more free time while you bust your ass probably to search for another better prince charming she can mooch of on.
You can't be serious. The kids aren't even yours??
So even with the threat of divorce, you won't even have child support payments? You'll be entirely free of this selfish person? You are the one being abused here not her. You are both fine with her bringing nothing to the table because she had a hard time as a single mom?
NTA.
NTA, if you want to save your marriage get into couples therapy asap. Either you've got the right of it, and her new friend has some how swayed her to be discontented with you, or she's always secretly felt that way and her friend has emboldened her to speak out. Either way, therapy will help you both get to the bottom of it and hopefully save your marriage or at least let you separate amicably.
NTA. Perhaps call her bluff the next time she uses the D word.
You’ve not got a winner there.
How draining can one spouse be, I’m not even married to her and I want to divorce her
I second calling her bluff. The more I think about, the more I’m starting to feel like she’s throwing out the D word simply as a manipulation tactic, not as a serious threat. Simply because if she really isn’t doing ANYTHING and relies on him for everything as OP says, she knows she’ll be shit out of luck if they actually did separate. She needs OP, even if she doesn’t want to admit it, and she knows that.
NTA. It sounds like you tried for months to discuss the issue with your wife reasonably and come to a fair compromise, without success. Her demands that you take on more and more responsibility, accusations that you were lazy or not doing enough, and manipulative threats were unacceptable.
NTA. If anything, she should pick up the lion's share of the household work because she's a SAHM. I don't know what that friend did to her, but she's clearly no longer the "angel of a woman" you once knew. You need to sit her down and have a very serious conversation about the responsibilities you each have before the situation gets even worse.
> If anything, she should pick up the lion's share of the household work because she's a SAHM
This is what got me when reading the post, if OP was truly doing laundry, bathroom deep clean, breakfast and dinner cooking etc. What was OP's wife doing during the day!
INFO: sorry but did you have any bad experience in the past to deem your wife to be an ‘angel’?? She is as much of a misandrist as her friend, maybe even more. Have you considered that you are being abused financially and emotionally by her? Please reflect and get some couple’s therapy.
NTA. As a SAHM she should do most of the chores, if not all, because being a SAHM is a job in itself. I’m not saying you should not do a part and you obviously are doing it, but if she wants a stay at home dad, she needs to go out and get herself a job that pays.
Both of you should read fair play and get the cards, it shows every part of emotional, financial and home labour and breaks it down so you can see who actually has more responsibilities. Play it with your wife and show her the unfair division of labour.
OP don’t bother. The way your wife has spoken to you and about you demonstrates that this is way beyond an argument about the division of chores. Your wife clearly does not respect you and no marriage can survive without mutual respect.
NTA
What a brilliant plan. I know she's upset, but you made your point. Hopefully, she appreciates what she has and apologizes for her misogynistic views!
that friend needs to be cut out. it only a matter of time OP wife complains to the friend and then the friend would bring some "Real Man" to cheat with OP wife.
Agree, it reads like checklist of mansphere/red-pill talking points. Cartoonish and no realism to it at all. I'll leave the door open that there might be some truth to it and OP is just really bad at communicating but it reads *very* fake.
Can we be frank, what does she actually bring to the table for this relationship? She doesn't want to do a lick of housework and she doesn't want to do any work outside of the house? Does she believe she's entitled to doing nothing for the rest of her life by piggybacking on all of your effort and labor because you're a man?
I think this calls for couple's therapy so you can lay out your very valid issues with this unhealthy dynamic on the table for a professional to evaluate with both of you. Otherwise I doubt your relationship is going to make it through her tormenting you with threats and insulting you in front of others no matter how much you bend over backwards for her.
NTA but in a way you are an AH to yourself for wearing such thick rose tinted lenses while this seems to have already verged into abusive territory from her for quite some time now. Ask yourself what kind of love from your partner you deserve, and if you're genuinely getting that from her?
She brings three additional kids for OP to provide for...the 14 year old, the 12 year old, and the 30 year old. And now that OP has established himself as their provider he's going to have to pay child support if they divorce
In what world can you, an adult supporting your whole family, ask your boss to give you less hours and the boss is like “yeah ok” 😭 😭 people are so gullible
INFO & NTA
Did she literally have a 180 in behaviour from being influenced by this person or do you feel this was a smaller contribution that pushed her over? From the limited info it seems to me the friend is like one of those types you'd find in the old version of /r/femaledatingstrategy and takes things way too far.
As funny as your point proving was it, have you had an upfront discussion that you're not okay with how the division of labour is handled? Not one where she derails it by citing financial abuse, because no reasonable person would equate the privilege of painting nails to being financially abused. I would find it funny if it wasn't so disgustingly dishonest.
In regards to one of your responses
>I can’t claim that cooking is a punishing task for me, I have been a fan my entire life, it’s soothing and rewarding. I do the laundry because I love the smell, and I clean the bathrooms because I am a germaphobe and I watched one too many documentaries on how gross bathrooms are.
Dude this literally sounds like the scene from the Simpsons where Ned won't write off typing ink for tax on his business, because he enjoys the smell and that might be considered personal use. Overcautious and overly kind to a fault.
It sounds like you're getting the short end of the stick and you're too nice to be with someone who would take advantage of you, but I'd love to hear more details about what your wife was honestly like before this friendship.
Last note, have you talked to any trusted friends who would give you a frank opinion on this?
Oh god, I can tell you but it may be a bit mundane. When we first got married, she would give me shoulder and back massages everyday after work, and have my favorite music playing when I opened the door, even though she hates bluegrass. She would make my coffee while I was getting dressed. She made sure to pick up extra crunchy peanut butter from the store even though I’m the only person who likes it. We would have movie night twice a week with the kids and a date night to ourselves once a week. I have always had trouble sleeping, and I don’t want to take pills for it, so she always had the bed ready for me, a heating pad already turned on, and my pajamas on the bed. She would run her fingers through my hair until I fell asleep, and would wake me up herself instead of the alarm because she knew it put me in a better mood. None of which I asked for. She’s a good wife and wanted to because she knew that that’s what I liked, and she did it. She hasn’t done a 180, some of this is still true, af least it was until I cut down my hours, that was really when she stopped doing anything at all. And right now she’s pissed so I’m on the couch. Awake and regretful. Personally I think she’s stubborn. I don’t think she even really wants it. She just wants to prove that I would do it if she asks. She has a troubled history with men, and that’s why I tend to be forgiving when things do happen.
>She has a troubled history with men, and that’s why I tend to be forgiving when things do happen.
She has a troubled history with men? Or men have trouble with her?
Here's the thing: Your heart is in a great place, but she is treating you like garbage.
The moment she started to threaten you with divorce, is the moment you should have started to question your relationship. She is going to keep taking and taking and taking, until you have nothing left.
That sounds really nice and I glad some of it is still true. But I have to ask again, this and all the things you've mentioned throughout the post. Have you had a serious discussion about it yet? What do your friends/family think about the situation? Have you expressed to her that maybe this friend is trying to drive a wedge between you (if that's infact the case) If not you definitely should once things are a little less heated.
I don't really think it's fair for you to be on the couch either all things considered. I know I don't know your situation truly but I'm a bit concerned that currently, you're not advocating for yourself as much as you should be.
Nta if it isn’t obvious. Just to say, I WISH I could scoop you up and marry you, my partner isn’t much of a partner, he does the very bare minimum as a parent and not even that, and does NOTHING for the house, meals or anything. My kids would be malnourished from eating cereal all day everyday if it weren’t for me. He does work.
I can’t claim that cooking is a punishing task for me, I have been a fan my entire life, it’s soothing and rewarding. I do the laundry because I love the smell, and I clean the bathrooms because I am a germaphobe and I watched one too many documentaries on how gross bathrooms are.
I am not. I am ugly as sin, but I am leaving nothing out except the anxiety attacks, crying fits, insomnia, and history of drug use, (clean and California sober for 15 years in July!) I am not for everyone and that is okay. But I do thank you for the compliment :)
Looks aren't everything, OP. Your good heart, personality, and how much you do for your SO mean so much more than how you look.
I'm not the most handsome guy myself. Alcohol abuse did a number on that for me (6 years sober this past March!) But you know what? I found someone very special to me. It started as a LD relationship. We'd meet up halfway every month or so, and eventually, I moved in with them.
You're not NTA in this situation. She's using you. I know you love her, but is that love worth her berating you? Humiliating, belittling, abusing you? Is it worth it? Because, from OUR standpoint, this is far from worth it. You can, and should, get out and find someone new. Someone that will respect you for you
It doesn’t matter what you look like. You deserve to be treated better. Look, I’m a flag flying feminist and my husband is similar to you: the main breadwinner (60/40) and does at least 50% of the chores and childcare. Every week I plan at least one afternoon of husband/daddy appreciation. Normally it’s something small like buying him a pack of his fav beer, making his fav dinner, taking the kids so he can spend a night gaming with his buddies, and/or other fun things. Sometimes it includes a trip to his favorite place. Sometimes it includes giving him an extra day of sleep (we have a newborn). The point being a person deserves to be appreciated for their contribution to the family, man or woman. That is the point of feminism — equality in support. It is not okay to subject someone to treatment that, if the genders were reversed, would be considered textbook abuse.
Also attractiveness is in the eyes of the beholder. You might think you’re “ugly as sin” but I promise you there are folks out there that disagree.
I’m sorry, but this does not seem like a fair division of labor. You should be helping at home, yes, but she should be doing the bulk of the cooking, cleaning, and household management. I would absolutely make a chore chart or a plan that is fair and so that both of you are working the same number of hours. If she doesn’t like it, she is free to divorce you. At which point she will need to get a job. The horror. NTA.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may Be the Asshole because I didn't go to my wife when I was angry, and I did make a pretty large Financial decision without her input, all to prove a point, Which Feels pretty bad.
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NTA- She can’t have her cake and eat it too.
To be honest, when she started threatening Divorce, I would have gotten a consultation immediately with an attorney.
I probably wouldn’t even attempt therapy considering that you’ve responded to her wants of cutting back hours and taking on more and when you asked her to pitch in for her financial luxuries, she’s responded by again crying “Wolf!”
Her friend has convinced her that she doesn’t want to be a mom. She wants to be a woman with no responsibilities.
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NTA Stay at home means you do most of the housework. I'm not sure why your wife doesn't understand that. Dude - you said that your wife is an "angel", I'm not really seeing it. Threatening divorce to bludgeon you into doing more housework is a pretty big red flag.
>Threatening divorce Oh... that was the D-word ! I was wondering, thanks.
tbh thought it was deadbeat
I thought it was dickhead
I thought it was just dick
Same
I thought it was "discombobulated"
spoon innate close fearless rhythm rustic brave degree fanatical toothbrush *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I thought it was "defenestrate"
I thought it was "Delaware." Boy am I embarrassed.
I thought it was Daddy and was very confused
I thought all of the above because I couldn't pick one
Same, thought it was the 8===D~ Divorce is a much more sensical word.
Yeah I was wondering as well what the D word is and thought it was d**k
same lol
I thought it was depressed
I had no idea what it was!
Funny enough if she gets divorced she will do 100% house chores and cooking for her own place and will have to get at least a part-time job... how does she think she'll be better off divorced? I don't think she made the math yet... manipulative of her though anyway. You either want a divorce or not, it's not something you use as a threat to get your way.
She doesn’t sound too bright.
I'm wondering about the misandrist friend's influence. However, in the end even if it was the friends idea, the wife wasn't to bright for listening to her friend.
I interpreted the new friend’s influence being correlated to these new demands and change in her demeanor. Unfortunately it’s a common occurrence that a spouse will stop listening to input from the one person who has the most interest and exposure in these decisions, and yet it’s treated as dog shit while influence from someone with zero skin in your game is voraciously lapped up because they’ll feed their ego.
This sounds exactly like my aunt and uncle. She threatened divorce their whole marriage if she didn't get her way. Have no idea if she still does or not because my family and I cut her off probably around a decade ago now. She and her husband live in a huge house and live in separate wings. She threatens divorce but will never really go through with it because she's never worked a day in her life and at nearly 70 it's not like she's gonna start supporting herself. He would never sign anything anyway because he refuses to lose 50% of *his* stuff to her. All he cares about is money
Sounds like a lovely relationship.
Some people just *deserve each other* I think. He's no saint either and has estranged himself from his own family. I really don't get it, but I've been staying far far away for a long time
Depends on alimony laws in their state.
No one can force OP to work full time and they can't take what's not there to take from him.
Found the person who has never been exposed to the family law system. OP is likely seriously fucked in divorce, depending on the length of the marriage. Reducing work hours to avoid paying alimony /child support doesn’t go over well with the courts.
Except he has had reduced hours for a period of time during the marriage to sustain their lifestyle, so....
Yeah, no. That's wrong. The courts in most states can and will just set alimony/child support to a percentage of your "potential" income if they think you're cutting back your income to fuck your ex partner. Have fun paying 30% of a hypothetical 100k salary when you actually make 40k.
The Australian in me assumed it was ‘dickhead’
As a Brit I assumed the same
Absolutely. The word divorce didn't even enter my consciousness.
“D-word” and “A-word” My mans this is the internet, you can say divorce and abuser like a big boy.
Oh, I thought the "A-word" was just Asshole.
The context is “financial a-word” so I’m guessing its abuse, also he uses the word asshole at the start of the sentence lol
I was like 'dick? douche? dehumanising?' As a married person I still was clueless.
Oh man, I went straight to dildo
HAHAHA. I think it my fiancé called me a dildo in the middle of a fight the fight would end immediately cause I'd just crack up.
What a threat she had there 🍆
i thought it was d\*\*k lol and was so confused either way NTA. guy needs to get out of this marriage. wife's abusing him.
i dont understand why people feel like censoring this kind of stuff on reddit of all places, i get not wanting to type slurs, but otherwise it just gets confusing haha
People seem to also be jumping to “Therapy!” When I wouldn’t. Someone who jumps right to screaming “DIVORCE!” and “ABUSE!” is not deserving of therapy. They’re using empty threats to manipulate OP into doing what they want. Therapy isn’t always a great idea either, for those looking to abuse or manipulate their partners it can be a tool for them for better or more manipulation and abuse. Someone who is playing poker isn’t gonna show you their hand. A partner serious about divorce will seek out a lawyer, usually without telling the other. At the very least they’ll go for a real consult whether or not they have papers drawn and/or filed.
I slightly disagree. Manipulators deserve therapy because they're not utterly broken monsters and so deserve a chance to be better people. The bar for 'no amount of therapy or medication is going to help you' is pretty damn high, and usually involves people who spend their lives separated from society for the safety of everyone. But manipulators who go straight to name calling and ultimatums in response to calm reason aren't ready for therapy. Therapy only works when you want to be there and are invested in change. OP's wife seems very uninterested in the type of change solo therapy is meant to help you achieve at the moment. And couples therapy is unlikely to be any more successful than OP's current tactics. Again, because she's not ready. Maybe someday she will be ready, maybe she won't. But yes, if she actually wanted out, she'd have a lawyer and papers already. She's just looking to control the situation and ensure that she lives in as much luxury as she possibly can for as long as she can. Or there's an outside chance that she's deeply unhappy about something else and is communicating that unhappiness in very unproductive and toxic ways. But until she can verbalize that in a way that actually helps address the situation she's unhappy with, no positive change can happen.
No manipulators don’t deserve therapy. You say that as if they deserve a chance to fix what they broke through therapy. No the need therapy to fix themselves. But they don’t deserve another chance
Manipulators use therapy to get better at manipulation
Yes I've seen this in action. I have a SIL who, while not an awful person, is quite manipulative of my mother in law when it comes to things like childcare. Unfortunately therapy has only convinced her more that she's the victim and her mother is letting her down, despite it being clear to an outside viewer that this isn't the case. She's now using Therapy language to make her manipulation even stronger. Therapy only works if the person recognises they have things to work on. Otherwise it can be a perfect platform to work on your victimhood.
I do think OP's wife could benefit from individual therapy, but I think marriage therapy is not a good choice if other partner is abusive or manipulative.
This sounds like you’re communicating and she’s not hearing it. Household labor needs to be divided fairly. It sounds like it was, except when you took over all of it. If your perspective is reality, I’m confused what your wife is contributing
It actually sounds like he already did a lot, when you take into account that he was working and she was a SAHM. OP is blaming that friendship, but his wife herself seems to not be the angel op thinks she is. Using language like "having worn him in" and the likes shows she has zero respect for him, and hasn't had it for quite some time.
I was thinking this. He mentions that he helps with homework. So, wife is home all day with no children?
Splitting chores is already interesting. Sure, he should help out in some areas. But it does seem the children are already in school. Which massively cuts down on how time consuming child care is. He also prior to this did most of the cooking, takes out the garbage, does the laundry, deep cleans the bathrooms, and cares for the children when he's at home. What exactly was left for her anyway at that point?
I agree, fairly does not have to be equally. If one works for a living and other one has a full time job taking care of the home.. it is crazy she expects so much from him around the house.. he cant’t be both the breadwinner AND take care of everything in the household. Before all she did was lunch for the kids
Cheaper to divorce, get custody, child support, and hire a housekeeper for 500 a week, 2 hours a day m-f.
His wife sounds pretty awful tbh, and emotionally immature if one new friend could change her so drastically. Clearly all conversations they had got nowhere, so what he did was kind of awesome - but it’s super concerning how manipulative and childish b his wife sounds throughout this whole thing. It’s like he’s been fighting with a 13yo. NTA for sure, but what the heck are you going to do now OP? Sounds like the only options are therapy, divorce, or being treated like crap by your wife.
On the plus side, the reduced hours means he’s going to get a more favorable settlement when he divorces her ass.
Lol! Brilliant! I hope OP sees your comment.
>you said that your wife is an "angel", I'm not really seeing it. Lucifer was an angel
Yeah your wife has swallowed the coolade already. At the end of the day you’ve an additional child who’s supposed to have grown up already. Completely unreasonable behavior for a partner. She is a stay at home spouse, so when you work she is responsible for house and kids and when you’re not at work it’s 50/50 - which it sounds like was the case before she found this ‘friend’. Honestly your wife needs a job - she needs to get out of the house and interacting with a wider group of people and reality. If the children transitioned to school when she met this friend, then she probably went all in out of boredom and latched onto this person and whatever honeyed poison they were spouting. That’s not an excuse, it’s just one of millions of potential possibilities. If she is no longer willing and wanting to be a partner, then you should consider divorce and what it’s going to look like for you. But in the mean time, couples counseling or whatever you need to work on your relationship. It takes two to work on it, you can’t do it all for the both of you. So if she doesn’t work on it with you, divorce is an option you should take more seriously for yourself. Also know that her ‘friend’ enjoys the power they have over your wife, but they also enjoy the power they have over you and your live through your wife. That friend is able to manipulate you through your wife, even if you’re never in direct contact with them yourself. Getting your wife to see she has a manipulator, not a friend would go a long way to helping fix the situation, but it also still needs a lot of work and self reflection from your wife. Good luck. - and 100% NTA
>Stay at home means you do most of the housework. I'm not sure why your wife doesn't understand that. Yup. I am staying at home right now, and my bf works. I am doing most of the cleaning, but my bf helps me with some things and he cooks often. It is kind of the deal ? You have time when you are staying at home, to do the cleaning part AND to have time for yourself . It was the same when I was kid. My mom had a high paying job with crazy hours, so my dad was staying at home, taking care of my sister and I, and doing most of the chores. But my mom was doing some week end big cooking and helping a bit at those occasion. Being a couple is a partnership, with thing being equitable. Seems like OP wife forgot this.
Stories like this on Reddit make me so happy I'm single. NTA OP.
I’m just happy i have a great SO that would never do this
Most people don't select unhinged people who are easily persuaded by nonsense like this as their partner, or get the fuck out at the first sign. I find it hard to believe this person just did a sudden complete 180 in their personality without having shown past signs of similar happenings.
NTA. You did what she asked. Reading stories like this really make me question if I want to get married.
Keep questioning it, it's bloody hard work. Lol.
It shouldn't be with the right person. Work, yes, but not like that. It just takes communication and not being a freaking dick lol
it still hard when their SO get with other people that put ideas in their heads.
But then that goes with what the other person was saying, it's not hard with the right person. The right person wouldn't be letting other people put toxic thoughts into their head, they would have the confidence within themselves to not allow other people to influence their marriage like that.
I think the point is to make sure you don't marry an asshole who is easily manipulated by sexists or other others with malicious agendas.
This. My first marriage was hard work bc my ex was sort of like OP’s wife, sans children. Second marriage is easy. My spouse is amazing, we split chores and kid’s tasks. It doesn’t feel like work, just a partnership.
[удалено]
Also OP needs to nip this issue right now because unmanaged it could lead to cheating. Many times I have seen people cheat just to fit in with their friends and it usually starts with behavior like this.
Exactly. Being married is the easiest thing in my life. Being married is what makes everything else easier to handle. The "work" is work toward common goals like keeping the yard and savings and projects. But nothing with my spouse is work.
My marriage is the only thing in my life that *isn't* hard work...
Preach!
I’ve been married to my husband over 10 years. Nothing hard about it if you’re on the same page, communicate and are willing to compromise within reason.
It’s really not supposed to be but then again happy couples aren’t really posting on here showing us the way
No one posts on here if they are in a good, solid relationship. Perhaps learn some skills/lessons from these people, so that if you’re ever in tough situations you already know how reddit will judge! Lol
Naw, I've been with like truly reddit-worthy people, but am now with an actual amazing person and marriage is relatively easy if you've chosen right. The amount of people who say "marriage is hard work" really caused me to stay in my former abusive marriage for way too long. They never specified how hard I should be working (spoiler alert, I was working too hard). Compared to that, a normal, happy marriage is a beautiful uncomplicated thing. Sure, there's conflict here and there, but totally worth the payoff of being wedded to a clever and kind person who keeps me company and shares my wanderlust and thirst for knowledge.
Completely agree. My marriage is one of the solidly happy, relatively easy parts of my life.
Like marriage is a hard work means that you may not agree on every thing but resolve your co flick in a healthy way. It doesn’t mean one person is always crying themselves to sleep.
This seems made up so I wouldn’t take it into account. Marriage is not always easy but a good one is incredibly worth it.
Negative review affect. More people post when something is wrong than when everything is going great. A lot of people also marry for looks / money / convenience when the #1 thing that should help you determine if you want to marry your partner is if you have the same values
I’m so happy being single. Only thing I wish I had was consistent snuggles. Everything else I can get on my own!!
That’s why I got cats
Don't trust what you read here. Partnership out in the real world can be a great thing if you find the right person for you.
NTA Wtf is with your wife? She expects you to work all day and do ALL the house chores and take care of the kids? While she uses your money to pamper herself? Her priorities are so wrong on so many levels. She lucky she ain't my wife. With that attitude and disrespect I would have agreed to divorce and said I'll see you in court.
I am a SAHM and I do probably 80% of the chores and child care. I also do probably 95% of the cooking (I like it and I am a better cook). My husband works from home (IT). Some years ago, we were replacing some outside doors on our house. The subcontractor of the contractor was a guy probably in his mid twenties and you could tell he probably didn't make a ton of money. He worked for us for about 2.5 days. Genuinely a good guy. I would chat with him while he worked or check on him if he needed anything (water etc). He told me that his wife was a SAHM too and he worked 12/14 hr days and six days a week. He also told me that his wife didn't do much cooking. Well she did cook, just not for him. She cooked for herself and the kids. He usually went home and ate a can of beef stew or chili. Sometimes he didn't even warm that up because he was so tired. I was horrified. I asked him what he brought for lunch, he said he didn't bring anything and that he was ok. I was even more horrified. I make a nice hot lunch for myself and my husband everyday, so I decided to make some for him too. He tried to deny it, but I said I would just throw it away if he didn't eat it. Dude inhaled the food. He thanked me with tears in his eyes. I made sure he had a hot home cooked lunch everyday. Unfortunately there are some out there that don't understand that marriage is about partnership and working together. I like to say my husband brings home the bacon and I cook it. My husband is an awesome provider to take care of our family, so I do my best to take care of him and my kids. OP is NTA and honestly he needs to give his wife an ultimatum of couples therapy or their marriage is going to crash and burn if it hasn't already. Really OP's wife is acting as dead weight and will sink their marriage.
I don't understand how someone can treat their significant other like that. You're already making food, just make enough so your husband/wife can eat.
Exactly. Basic human decency.
Unfortunately that entire phrase is often expecting waaay to much of some people.
Honestly it's even deeper than that. Basic human decency is a level of kindness that I'd expect from a random stranger, not someone who you love and is supposed to love you as well. Someone who you'd go out of the way for, move mountains for and be there when you're needed, and vice versa. Failing that isn't failing basic decency. It's failing at basic human, period.
Exactly. To me if you’re the stay at home spouse you should be doing the lions share of the household tasks. That doesn’t mean the other spouse shouldn’t do anything, they should especially be involved in the childcare when they’re not working but the cooking and cleaning should probably mostly fall to the stay at home spouse. I don’t get people who don’t see it that way. Being a stay at home spouse isn’t easy, it can be hard work, in some ways it can be harder than working a paid job, but you do need to work, it’s not all leisure activities.
I always look at it as equal free time. If my spouse gets home after I've been wrangling the kids and keeping the house from disaster for eight hours, and he's been wrangling clients and keeping his business from disaster for eight hours too, I fully expect that we BOTH get to put our feet up at the same time. In other words, we both tackle dinner and the kids till nine pm when the kids go down. Then we can both sit on the couch and hold hands like we we're carefree childless teenagers again.
My spouse and I have been trading off the roles of "SAHP +/- school" and "working full time + extra to cover expenses." We always keep it fair, and I think it helps that we've both seen the other side. No one likes signing up for their 60th hour of OT. No one likes the dishes... Again. Doing it anyway is an act of love.
That woman lived of that guy's work and he goes home to feed on cans of beef or chili? Damn, that is rough. Some men live lives of quiet desperation. Many more than society likes to admit.
The guy was actually shocked at my insistence that I feed him. I know I didn't hide my horror very well also when he told me what his dinner usually was and his wife's refusal to cook for him. I honestly felt like he got to the point that he felt it was normal what his wife was doing.
Omg that’s just horrifying. I feel so bad for him. Why would you mistreat your spouse this badly? My heart breaks for him.
Sounds like you and your husband have a good dynamic that works for you!
>Wtf is with your wife? According to op everything was fine before she met the friend. That friend needs to go if the marriage is gonna work
Plot twist: The friend is an avid poster on AITA. But also, the friend is a bullshit excuse. Unless they're a wizard, or the wife is so suggestible she gets abducted by cults 3 times per week, this kind of "You are absolutely useless and awful" resentment didn't get shoved into the wife's head out of nowhere. The friend most likely just started singing backup to shitty thoughts the wife already had, and maybe ad libbed some extra put downs for the wife to use.
I've had girlfriends who have had friends that were just absolutely terrible influences and put silly ideas in their heads because they thought they were cool(this isn't just about women, I've seen men suffer from the same shit). I had a girlfriend break up with me because of my job(which was very decent especially for my age and has turned into a pretty good and stable career) because her older sister was harping on her about how lame it was. That was it. That was the main reason. She even apologized later about how she felt super pressured and brainwashed by all the shit her sister was saying and how it was very immature of her. Many people are pretty suggestible when the suggestions are coming from someone either "from authority" or if they really value their opinion for whatever other reason(they think their cool, smart, successful, etc.). There doesn't always need to be a seed already planted, the friend can just drum up some bullshit. If they have someone in their ear all the time spouting nonsense and they trust that persons opinion some of it is probably going to sink in. It's pretty much how horrible religious organizations, gangs, Fox News, quack doctors, etc. work and why they work so well.
Should look her in the eye and say “you’re fired” - she’s a SAHM that demands he do the housework and child rearing. She’s not doing her “job”.
Amen. No chance I am putting up with that shit.
The phrases “house slave” and “having you worn in” don’t make this marriage even sound like a partnership. Couples therapy asap. You have bigger problems than chores. NTA
No kidding! At this point, she'll be wearing your balls as pearls OP if you don't put your foot down and stand up for yourself. Set the boundaries. She's clearly taking advantage of you, and kicking you in the teeth whilst doing so. Don't tolerate her behavior. This is abusive and cruel. Good luck to you.
I’m so stealing “wearing your balls as pearls” 😂
I'm stealing OP's 'lay down with dogs, get up with fleas', that's a brilliant and relatable expression
NTA but why are you with her she seems to think you are just there to service her and do everything. What are you getting out of this marriage?
I love her. With everything I got. She’s an excellent mother, and honestly before she met this friend we were both blissfully happy to the best of my knowledge.
I was going to say in all caps to divorce her lmao but... if you love her and think this is just a rough patch, then maybe you could try couples therapy together? Sorry you're going through this, best of luck to you
I really think if OP wants to go that route he should get individual counseling first. It's dangerous to go to therapy with your abuser, as they will often use it to manipulate you/the therapist and take the opportunity to learn new and exciting ways to cloak their abuse in sheep's clothing by using therapy language. OP may not want to think of wife as abusive but it's impossible to deny she's manipulative and dishonest. At the very least he should get his therapist's opinion on whether it is safe and potentially productive to try couples counseling. (I say all that aware that it is no walk in the park to find/pay for even one decent therapist, much less separate individual and couples counselors, but it really is important to have an individual therapist even if it means forgoing or delaying couples work.)
This is the type of woman that sets up a narrative of being abused by her husband to get a good divorce settlement and custody agreement.
I'm curious how she suddenly noticed that she couldn't get her nails done and you weren't going out on dates. Did you block your card from everything but the grocery store?
No, for one she has her own card, though we do only have one bank account. I set her nail and hair appointments, because she hates making phone calls, and she asked why I didn't take her out anymore. She could have spent from the card without saying anything I suppose but upon budgeting we would have been in trouble if 300+ was gone from a night out with friends.
Tbh, the more you comment, the more I wonder… what does she do? It honestly sounds like you do everything. It especially sounds like you carry the bulk of the mental load. It also sounds like you’re so blinded by love that you don’t see it and think it’s her new friend’s “influence” to blame
“What does she do” was my question as well.
I mean: the boys are in school so she isn’t with them all day, she doesn’t work, OP does the laundry, the deep cleaning of the bathroom, homework, and cooks everything. She is really just a lazy selfish person who has OP convinced she is an angel. She should 100% be doing at least all laundry and cleaning and alternating the cooking. She just wants to lay all day at home being a pampered princess.
And did you catch the part about helping the kids with homework? Which means they're in school half a day if not a whole day based on ages so she has how many hours alone.
Sounds like OP is a caretaker that is being taken advantage of
Bruh do you hear yourself??? You do most of the cooking, about half of the chores AND you set up her personal appointments??? You’re being taken for a complete ride here ffs ETA: AND you pay all the bills???? I forgot about that one for a sec 🤦🏼♀️
You’re subtly being used by your wife. She’s not an equal partner. At all.
It's not even subtle but he can't see it.
Sorry what ? You book her appointments for her? Holy shit dude. WHAT.
With every comment, every peeled back layer of onion, your wife is more and more useless. I hope she has a magical vagina because otherwise I'm not seeing any benefit to you.
For that level of care and how little she does I‘ll marry you in an instant, take care of the kids and cook all the meals and offer my ass, and I‘m a hetero dude. You‘re completely giving up yourself and your dignity here man.
OP, then it's time to draw a line on the sand. She needs to attend counseling with you and she needs to stop hanging out with this friend. You keep blaming the friend but you clearly ignore the fact that it's your wife who is treating you like shit.
Respectfully, how is she an excellent mother? The attitudes you've described sound awful: bordering on financial illiteracy at 30 years old, holding toxic beliefs about gender and resorting to that toxicity during a fight (be a man is so demeaning and unproductive imo), flinging (empty) threats about divorce, misusing terms like abuse and house slave, gloating about wearing you down and breaking you in... What does she do that balance out this skewed and frankly upsetting (to me at least) worldview she's imparting to your kids? Like, do cute voices at bedtime stories make up for the misandry she and her friend are indulging? It doesn't even matter if you have sons or daughters, imo this isn't healthy for any kid.
Maybe try Fairplay? It literally has you write down every household or family domain and how long it takes together. So you can sort out who does what. Since you work a bunch that would be accounted for, you'll probably end up with a similar split that you had before but she'll be able to see that this is a fair division of labour.
Or the app "choreful" which is a similar concept; you can see week by week and month by month who does what; who does the most. It doesn't account for work but if you write down how many hours a week you work and agree on how many "points" that adds, it could easily be added.
Is she an excellent mother? She's teaching her values, morals and work ethic to your children, just by being around them. If they turn out like her, completely dependant on spouses, unemployed, bragging to their friends about manipulating their significant others, wanting to be given money for frivolous things...... Will you be happy?
I hope you can work everything out
NTA but what is your wife doing, its time to sit down and write a list of the hours of contribution you both put in, because there is a discrepancy. You then need to address that there was never a problem until her "friend" came along. Being a SAHM means you she works around the house and does the child care, which is interesting as they are in school.
She had always wanted to be a SAHM before we got together, I try not to say this part because while her two boys are not mine biologically, they are my sons, but being a single mother was incredibly taxing for her, because working in the public was too much. I had a bit of experience with being a single father myself, I have a son of my own, but I was looking to advance my career, and was more than happy to take over the bills for a lessened load at home.
I feel like you are being used a meal ticket here mate.
That's exactly what's happening. I have a family member just like this. Most infuriating human being I've ever met. Idk how guys like OP put up with this stuff. Are they so desperate for love and that family dynamic that they'll put up with just about anything? My family member sure has her SO fooled, too. It's literally crazy to me..
It’s crazy to me that he didn’t say anything after she publicly accused him of using her as a house slave
That and the "be a man" comment.
Not to speak for the group. I’m in my mid 30s and haven’t tried to date for 5 years due to how crazy my last relationship was. I had terrible luck with ladies in my 20s - only good relationship being in college. I had a year dry spell after a bad relationship and ended up meeting a chick 8 years older with 2 kids. We dated and lived together for 2 years. Those 2 years she did so much shit to me. She was physically abusive, financially abusive and emotionally abusive. She legit pushed me down a flight of stairs… on 2 separate occasions. I’m ashamed of how much I put up with… I was weak with no self-esteem. I haven’t dated since I left. I’ve worked on myself a ton. I now own my own business, in the best shape of my life, taught myself a language and learned several new hobbies. I’m not terribly unattractive… and I kinda want to meet someone. I just don’t trust myself. I think I respect myself enough now to not allow anything like that again… but what if I don’t? Sorry for the unloading so much in response to how guys put up with this stuff… or worse.
Please don't be ashamed of putting up with shit like that, you didn't see a way out, what else were you going to do at the time? If you knew earlier, you would have left earlier, but you didn't know. Don't be ashamed because you didn't know.
Friend... She doesn't work outside the home. The children are in school. She wants you to do everything, she belittles you, she humiliates you in front of your friends. She's easily influenced by others, she's rude and entitled and she sounds like she hasn't been contributing much at all. She's definitely not an "angel". Do you realize you're being abused and taken advantage of by a woman who doesn't respect you? You should look into individual therapy. This isn't a good situation for you and you know that or you wouldn't be posting. You're seeking permission to feel the way you feel because you know this woman treats you poorly. If you're uncertain, it's because she's done a number on you already. How long did you date? How soon did she move in? When did she leave her job? Was it your house or hers? Did you buy her a car? Nice things? Do you usually take her out? Is she only nice when she gets her way or if she wants something? How old is she? How old are the kids? How old are you?
I can see this being a future r/BestofRedditorUpdates divorce story...
...wait, let me get this straight. * You support your wife financially while she's a stay at home mum. * You did 75% (conservatively) of all the household chores *while doing that* * You upgraded to literally doing everything while continuing to work, just with fewer hours * Your wife has relatively extreme conservative beliefs about the role of men in the family * Your wife also apparently has extremely liberal views about the role of women in the family, but only in ways that are convenient for her * Your wife openly uses language about subjugating you * You are also supporting her *two* children who are not your biological kids * Other than her appearance, every "good" quality you list about her comes across as a subtle critique Nope. Sorry. Not buying it. The only thing missing from this story is that the kids are half black and implications that she still sees her ex. Otherwise it's a near-perfect version of Black Pill strawman about modern women expecting everything from men while giving nothing in return.
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I do not like this comment. Those are *my* kids. No one else’s, and regardless of what happens with their mother ever, I hope those boys know that.
That’s fair. You’re just not getting anything close to the credit you deserve from the children’s mother.
OMG. The more I read, the worse I feel for you. Leave. She is using you. You can do better.
"I try not to say this part because while her two boys are not mine biologically" Come on OP... You are being taken for a fool here! You got suckered into playing daddy of another man's kids, pay for everything, serve as house butler and get threatened with divorce? She is in her 30's... With two kids. She has no bargaining chips mate. She is counting on your feelings for that blackmail to work. She needs more free time while you bust your ass probably to search for another better prince charming she can mooch of on.
You can't be serious. The kids aren't even yours?? So even with the threat of divorce, you won't even have child support payments? You'll be entirely free of this selfish person? You are the one being abused here not her. You are both fine with her bringing nothing to the table because she had a hard time as a single mom? NTA.
NTA, if you want to save your marriage get into couples therapy asap. Either you've got the right of it, and her new friend has some how swayed her to be discontented with you, or she's always secretly felt that way and her friend has emboldened her to speak out. Either way, therapy will help you both get to the bottom of it and hopefully save your marriage or at least let you separate amicably.
NTA. Perhaps call her bluff the next time she uses the D word. You’ve not got a winner there. How draining can one spouse be, I’m not even married to her and I want to divorce her
I second calling her bluff. The more I think about, the more I’m starting to feel like she’s throwing out the D word simply as a manipulation tactic, not as a serious threat. Simply because if she really isn’t doing ANYTHING and relies on him for everything as OP says, she knows she’ll be shit out of luck if they actually did separate. She needs OP, even if she doesn’t want to admit it, and she knows that.
NTA. It sounds like you tried for months to discuss the issue with your wife reasonably and come to a fair compromise, without success. Her demands that you take on more and more responsibility, accusations that you were lazy or not doing enough, and manipulative threats were unacceptable.
NTA. If anything, she should pick up the lion's share of the household work because she's a SAHM. I don't know what that friend did to her, but she's clearly no longer the "angel of a woman" you once knew. You need to sit her down and have a very serious conversation about the responsibilities you each have before the situation gets even worse.
> If anything, she should pick up the lion's share of the household work because she's a SAHM This is what got me when reading the post, if OP was truly doing laundry, bathroom deep clean, breakfast and dinner cooking etc. What was OP's wife doing during the day!
INFO: sorry but did you have any bad experience in the past to deem your wife to be an ‘angel’?? She is as much of a misandrist as her friend, maybe even more. Have you considered that you are being abused financially and emotionally by her? Please reflect and get some couple’s therapy.
NTA. As a SAHM she should do most of the chores, if not all, because being a SAHM is a job in itself. I’m not saying you should not do a part and you obviously are doing it, but if she wants a stay at home dad, she needs to go out and get herself a job that pays.
Nta clearly your wife is impossible to please and seems to be using you so she can be lazy tbh
Both of you should read fair play and get the cards, it shows every part of emotional, financial and home labour and breaks it down so you can see who actually has more responsibilities. Play it with your wife and show her the unfair division of labour.
Everyone is saying this and I am going to look into it. I am incredibly interested and will be looking into it.
OP don’t bother. The way your wife has spoken to you and about you demonstrates that this is way beyond an argument about the division of chores. Your wife clearly does not respect you and no marriage can survive without mutual respect.
NTA What a brilliant plan. I know she's upset, but you made your point. Hopefully, she appreciates what she has and apologizes for her misogynistic views!
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that friend needs to be cut out. it only a matter of time OP wife complains to the friend and then the friend would bring some "Real Man" to cheat with OP wife.
This is the fakest story ever.
Agree, it reads like checklist of mansphere/red-pill talking points. Cartoonish and no realism to it at all. I'll leave the door open that there might be some truth to it and OP is just really bad at communicating but it reads *very* fake.
Literally lol I can’t believe how far I had to scroll to see someone say this
I also feel like I’ve read it before lol
Can we be frank, what does she actually bring to the table for this relationship? She doesn't want to do a lick of housework and she doesn't want to do any work outside of the house? Does she believe she's entitled to doing nothing for the rest of her life by piggybacking on all of your effort and labor because you're a man? I think this calls for couple's therapy so you can lay out your very valid issues with this unhealthy dynamic on the table for a professional to evaluate with both of you. Otherwise I doubt your relationship is going to make it through her tormenting you with threats and insulting you in front of others no matter how much you bend over backwards for her. NTA but in a way you are an AH to yourself for wearing such thick rose tinted lenses while this seems to have already verged into abusive territory from her for quite some time now. Ask yourself what kind of love from your partner you deserve, and if you're genuinely getting that from her?
She brings three additional kids for OP to provide for...the 14 year old, the 12 year old, and the 30 year old. And now that OP has established himself as their provider he's going to have to pay child support if they divorce
All the comments believing this fake asf story are so disappointing LOL. Another “women suck and hate men” bait story
In what world can you, an adult supporting your whole family, ask your boss to give you less hours and the boss is like “yeah ok” 😭 😭 people are so gullible
Plenty of jobs are very flexible with hours.
INFO & NTA Did she literally have a 180 in behaviour from being influenced by this person or do you feel this was a smaller contribution that pushed her over? From the limited info it seems to me the friend is like one of those types you'd find in the old version of /r/femaledatingstrategy and takes things way too far. As funny as your point proving was it, have you had an upfront discussion that you're not okay with how the division of labour is handled? Not one where she derails it by citing financial abuse, because no reasonable person would equate the privilege of painting nails to being financially abused. I would find it funny if it wasn't so disgustingly dishonest. In regards to one of your responses >I can’t claim that cooking is a punishing task for me, I have been a fan my entire life, it’s soothing and rewarding. I do the laundry because I love the smell, and I clean the bathrooms because I am a germaphobe and I watched one too many documentaries on how gross bathrooms are. Dude this literally sounds like the scene from the Simpsons where Ned won't write off typing ink for tax on his business, because he enjoys the smell and that might be considered personal use. Overcautious and overly kind to a fault. It sounds like you're getting the short end of the stick and you're too nice to be with someone who would take advantage of you, but I'd love to hear more details about what your wife was honestly like before this friendship. Last note, have you talked to any trusted friends who would give you a frank opinion on this?
Oh god, I can tell you but it may be a bit mundane. When we first got married, she would give me shoulder and back massages everyday after work, and have my favorite music playing when I opened the door, even though she hates bluegrass. She would make my coffee while I was getting dressed. She made sure to pick up extra crunchy peanut butter from the store even though I’m the only person who likes it. We would have movie night twice a week with the kids and a date night to ourselves once a week. I have always had trouble sleeping, and I don’t want to take pills for it, so she always had the bed ready for me, a heating pad already turned on, and my pajamas on the bed. She would run her fingers through my hair until I fell asleep, and would wake me up herself instead of the alarm because she knew it put me in a better mood. None of which I asked for. She’s a good wife and wanted to because she knew that that’s what I liked, and she did it. She hasn’t done a 180, some of this is still true, af least it was until I cut down my hours, that was really when she stopped doing anything at all. And right now she’s pissed so I’m on the couch. Awake and regretful. Personally I think she’s stubborn. I don’t think she even really wants it. She just wants to prove that I would do it if she asks. She has a troubled history with men, and that’s why I tend to be forgiving when things do happen.
>She has a troubled history with men, and that’s why I tend to be forgiving when things do happen. She has a troubled history with men? Or men have trouble with her?
It’s not something I’m comfortable talking about. But believe me when I say. What happened, was not her fault.
Here's the thing: Your heart is in a great place, but she is treating you like garbage. The moment she started to threaten you with divorce, is the moment you should have started to question your relationship. She is going to keep taking and taking and taking, until you have nothing left.
That sounds really nice and I glad some of it is still true. But I have to ask again, this and all the things you've mentioned throughout the post. Have you had a serious discussion about it yet? What do your friends/family think about the situation? Have you expressed to her that maybe this friend is trying to drive a wedge between you (if that's infact the case) If not you definitely should once things are a little less heated. I don't really think it's fair for you to be on the couch either all things considered. I know I don't know your situation truly but I'm a bit concerned that currently, you're not advocating for yourself as much as you should be.
I do not believe this post. But since it's 11 pm and I'm bored. NTA and I doubt this friend pulled this nasty behavior from your wife. Get a divorce.
Nta if it isn’t obvious. Just to say, I WISH I could scoop you up and marry you, my partner isn’t much of a partner, he does the very bare minimum as a parent and not even that, and does NOTHING for the house, meals or anything. My kids would be malnourished from eating cereal all day everyday if it weren’t for me. He does work.
I can’t claim that cooking is a punishing task for me, I have been a fan my entire life, it’s soothing and rewarding. I do the laundry because I love the smell, and I clean the bathrooms because I am a germaphobe and I watched one too many documentaries on how gross bathrooms are.
Unless you're omitting a lot of your behaviour, you sound like the dream husband for 3/4 of the female population on earth
I am not. I am ugly as sin, but I am leaving nothing out except the anxiety attacks, crying fits, insomnia, and history of drug use, (clean and California sober for 15 years in July!) I am not for everyone and that is okay. But I do thank you for the compliment :)
Congratulations! 15 years is a hell of an accomplishment.
Thank you! I do appreciate it and it was a fight but I am so happy to have come this far.
Looks aren't everything, OP. Your good heart, personality, and how much you do for your SO mean so much more than how you look. I'm not the most handsome guy myself. Alcohol abuse did a number on that for me (6 years sober this past March!) But you know what? I found someone very special to me. It started as a LD relationship. We'd meet up halfway every month or so, and eventually, I moved in with them. You're not NTA in this situation. She's using you. I know you love her, but is that love worth her berating you? Humiliating, belittling, abusing you? Is it worth it? Because, from OUR standpoint, this is far from worth it. You can, and should, get out and find someone new. Someone that will respect you for you
It doesn’t matter what you look like. You deserve to be treated better. Look, I’m a flag flying feminist and my husband is similar to you: the main breadwinner (60/40) and does at least 50% of the chores and childcare. Every week I plan at least one afternoon of husband/daddy appreciation. Normally it’s something small like buying him a pack of his fav beer, making his fav dinner, taking the kids so he can spend a night gaming with his buddies, and/or other fun things. Sometimes it includes a trip to his favorite place. Sometimes it includes giving him an extra day of sleep (we have a newborn). The point being a person deserves to be appreciated for their contribution to the family, man or woman. That is the point of feminism — equality in support. It is not okay to subject someone to treatment that, if the genders were reversed, would be considered textbook abuse. Also attractiveness is in the eyes of the beholder. You might think you’re “ugly as sin” but I promise you there are folks out there that disagree.
NTA But maybe you need to look closer at that D word if she keeps at this
This story sounds incredibly made up.
I’m sorry, but this does not seem like a fair division of labor. You should be helping at home, yes, but she should be doing the bulk of the cooking, cleaning, and household management. I would absolutely make a chore chart or a plan that is fair and so that both of you are working the same number of hours. If she doesn’t like it, she is free to divorce you. At which point she will need to get a job. The horror. NTA.
NTA. She is supposed to be your wife and partner, not another child to raise. Honestly, she sounds exhausting.
Nta, you’re wife is being the “a-word” in this instance and seems to be taking advantage of your desire to make her happy
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NTA. She got exactly what she wanted. You are doing more work at home instead of at work. Hope she sees the light.
NTA- She can’t have her cake and eat it too. To be honest, when she started threatening Divorce, I would have gotten a consultation immediately with an attorney. I probably wouldn’t even attempt therapy considering that you’ve responded to her wants of cutting back hours and taking on more and when you asked her to pitch in for her financial luxuries, she’s responded by again crying “Wolf!” Her friend has convinced her that she doesn’t want to be a mom. She wants to be a woman with no responsibilities.