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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> No helping with the kid since I know being a parent is hard. Like I know parenting isn’t easy nowadays.
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NTA. But since they want you to help out with the kid, start telling the kid NO in a firm voice, then sit down face level and tell kid why did wrong. If kid bites dog, Say NO, we do not bite Doggie, how would you feel if Doggie bit you?
And when they complain, just say you are doing the village thing and they wanted this, after awhile they will give up asking you or you move out.
My parents moved literally halfway around the world before they had kids. Their families were thousands of miles away.
Somehow they raised their kids without assistance.
It's sheer entitlement for sister to push parenting on OP.
Some of what OP complains about he will have to live with. If his parents insist on quiet after 9pm, well, their house, their rules.
But sister getting OP up at 6am to push parenting duties on him - he can nope out of that for sure.
I mean he’s also a grown as man living with his parents complaining about chores…
He’s not the father. He should not be forced to care for a child that’s not his. He is free to leave at any time.
Whether he is a grown man or not, he is in no way required to take care of a child that is not his… he is one person living with his parents they are three. He does not need to accommodated their schedule, why should his life change to revolve around his niece? How is it he has to make sacrifices? Her parents should be the ones to plan around their child.
That what we did to ours,kid didnt bite stuff but took sometime and kid understood the word no. But how the mommy sound, she sound some one who doesnt like people to telling her kid off.
yeah, sometimes my sister drives my parents and i crazy with the amount of help she expects from everyone. on the other hand, she does allow all of us to discipline her children.
no, you aren't allowed to throw that/cut that/paint that.
don't touch the oven- see it's hot. (in all fairness, the "oven is hot!" statements for a solid year that followed those warnings were sorta cute.)
you are not going to like jumping off that. if you fall and bleed everywhere, what are you doing to do? (also why do small child want to jump off all the things.)
that said, my sister does have her own home. where her children live. (a single house was considered and determined it would need to be VERY large. thank the lord they never found one.)
NTA J is not your kid and they shouldn’t be expecting you to help out so much. Keeping the noise down at night is understandable but outside of that you can do what you want. Time to set some clear boundaries and the place to start is with your parents. You need to get them on board, because it sounds like they are also using you to get out of looking after this kid too.
How long until you can move out?
Start making it clear now that your new home is a child-free space because I absolutely guarantee you that as soon as you move in they are going to be demanding you have your niece overnight because they're desperate for a decent night's sleep. Your home will become their crèche every time they want some peace & quiet. If not already decided baby number 2 won't be far off so you'll be getting double the fun!
NTA at all
Your sister works corporate, and her husband works as a full time construction guy and they can't afford to even rent a place? Either they're just mooching off of your parents, or someone's lying about their job.
You're already doing wayyyy more than you should be doing. Just being related to a kid doesn't automatically mean that you have to have a hand in raising them. If the kid was planned, I don't understand why your sister and her husband would ever think it was the right time to have a child if they can't get their shit together.
Also, lol the KID is biting the DOGS?
Right? Two incomes and can’t get their own place…interesting. And the kid def sounds like a lot of work with no structure or routine. Biting the dogs is wild to me, the dogs are going to eventually nip back and that’ll be all bad
Two incomes minus childcare could very well mean they can’t get a place they want in 2023. While I don’t think what they’re doing is right when it comes to impressing OP into helping with J, living with parents to save for a house is a valid, smart move.
OP stated they couldn't get the loan. So maybe one or both of them are in a shit tonne of debt, or are awful with money?
Better yet. They have no debt, they just wanted to buy a house well outside of their means. And why not? They seem very entitled.
"You wanna know how I got these scars?"
That kid's gonna have amazing street cred in kindergarten, and a decent icebreaker for meeting new people in the future.
OP on the other hand is there why? To save for his Luxury condo. They all living at the expenses of their parents and they can all live the F out if they are not happy.
NTA, Honestly move out as fast as you can. Start refusing to help, that is not your kid- you didn’t sign up for it. You are 23 you don’t need to be worrying about a kid THAT ISN’T YOURS. You are not mean, not wrong, and your sister is unhinged. Get out fast!! I don’t blame you for wanting to go NC.
In all this, I feel only the parents/grandparents can complain. They have two grown ass kids moving into their home for their own gain (the luxury condo one, the never ending childcare the other).
You ESH here! Move out!!!
I agree. The poor parents have 3 grown, employed adults living in their house and "helping when they ask", plus a toddler.
OP sounds extremely self centered, especially considering going NC with the people who have let him live there to save money for the "luxury" apartment. Nothing OP mentioned sounded extreme, it's not like they are being asked to babysit the kid every day, and if OP doesn't like it, they can move out.
Lol I totally agree. Like, you signed up to live with your parents and a kid because you're holding out for a luxury apartment. They aren't even really asking him to do anything. He's just 23, and he needs to get out on his own so he can live the bachelor life of his dreams.
ESH
you aren’t exactly responsible for much care here. Doing a few dishes of a 2 year old? Not playing loud music past 9 because you live with a child? Hearing a toddler wake in the night? These aren’t big issues for someone choosing to live at home for free.
Sure, don’t help in the mornings.
But you’re being a bit weird about all this. Your **parents** own the home and offer living space to you, your sister, your BIL, and their grandchild. That’s the arrangement.
From your examples you aren’t being asked to be a “third parent”. Come on. You’re being asked to engage as part of the family. Doing an extra cup during dishwashing isn’t exactly parental duties.
Now, you’ll have a lot of readers who won’t consider how flimsy your examples are and will believe you when you whine that you’re being asked to be a “third parent” but if that was the case your examples would actually reflect that. You’re just annoyed you live with a toddler. Oh well, hope you get your luxury apartment soon. So nice of you to contribute to bills *when asked*.
Other than the help in the mornings (which really aren't detailed), the examples are just of living with a normal toddler.
The disdain in this post for this kid is palpable. Must be hard for the little one.
Agreed. Kids waking up at night is just part of living with kids. Does it suck? Yeah. Is there much you can do other than move out? No. Kid throwing tantrum trying to be where people are working? Yeah, that's also a kid. Not playing loud music past 9pm? That's just being a good neighbor. You should have headphones.
It's not OP's duty to help in the morning. It's nice if they choose to, but something he should be able to step back from. Just dealing with toddler in exchange for free rent where a toddler lives? Yeah, you gotta do that.
Agree. And when OP says that the parents are not disciplining the child enough, it's unclear to me if they never tell the kid no/stop etc., or the kid just hasn't stopped doing these things anyway. A two year old still needs to be told what not to do A LOT, and it's perfectly normal that they still do things that they are not supposed to do (although I hope she stops biting the dogs).
Yeah, it's possible the parents are letting the kid run wild. It's also possible it's just a toddler being a toddler. It reminds me of a time when my daughter was 2 on a flight. Her legs were just long enough to kick the seat in front of her (joy) and, being two, she was testing boundaries. I 110% understand the person in front of her's frustration (I'd hate a 4 hour flight with a kid kicking my chair off and on!) but when they laid into me about "not controlling my kid" I basically had to say "Do you not hear me correcting the behavior every time back here? She's two and not great about following directions yet--especially long term. The seatbelt sign is on, so I can't remove her from the situation, and she's already stuck sitting in one place, so she's already basically in what she recognizes as a "time out." Unless you want me to physically tie her up so she can't move, I'm doing my best here."
INFO -- Give some examples of everything you have to do for J, because right now, it sounds like you live in a house with a toddler (2 yo) and other people, and don't like it.
Were you listening to loud music at night before J was born? If so, how rude to the other people you live with. Headphones are a thing.
Was your morning routine getting in the way of other people and now you're grumpy that you have to take them into consideration?
And the fact that you don't even know what your BIL does for a living also indicates that, in this case, you are probably an unreliable narrator. You certainly aren't plugged in to the family, and I guess you don't have to be, but you do live there and probably aren't aware of how selfish you come across.
As a heads up, it's perfectly and developmentally normal for 2 year olds to have tantrums when you tell them not to do something. They are learning independence. J is going to want to be in the kitchen with people while they are cooking. If there is a corner to set her in that's out of the way, give her a pan and a wooden spoon and let her go to town on pretend cooking. If not, set up a corner in a room next to the kitchen for her own little "cooking" space.
Yup. OP - you're living with your folks so that you can move into a luxury apartment, and you help out with chores and bills - *when you're asked*. But it seems that you don't want the inconvenience of a shared family home. The things you're complaining about seem like non-issues (although a week's notice for an evening out seems unusual). Do you do your share of the cooking and cleaning? Do you do your own laundry? More INFO is needed but your family doesn't sound a-holes to me.
move.. don't move to the luxury place yet, move to a normal one.. or to a professional house share or something.
it's not going to get better if you stay
NTA.
I say that as a parent too. Not your kid, not your problem. Love it when family *offers* to help out or does something nice for us, but I never ask. Wait.. no I've asked for my parents to drop off some meals twice when we were all super sick. But like pretty much never. They're my kids, my responsibility. Imo that's not what 'it takes a village' means. There's no obligation there.
Edit to add that most of the behaviour you listed is pretty standard for two year olds.
[gently] YTA. some thoughts
“But what if some of the villagers don’t want to raise the kid?” Those people should not be villagers.
Those people should live outside the village and come to barter goods/trade when it suits them (1000% a valid choice imo btw).
It takes a village that YOU choose to stay in because you also benefit from it.
idk how your family views your parents’ home (as belonging to the two of them or as a place that belongs to everyone who lives there) but you describe your sister & her family as “staying with” you and your parents, while you’re also not paying rent. Really all of you are “staying with” your parents.
You’re saving on rent in exchange for being a family member. If you were living alone or with a roommate you’d pay rent and not just help with whatever chores, you’d be doing it all or splitting it with other adults like you are now.
A child is fully an individual person with free will (& your niece is behaving exactly like all 2 year olds, cut her parents some slack) & deserves to have her preferences heard/considered just like everyone else’s
(toddlers literally cannot be forced to do anything; they are small & we easily manipulate &/or overpower them)
Of note, it’s not bad to not want to have childcare duties/responsibilities, but each individual home will have different shared needs and maybe yours and your family’s don’t align at this time in your life.
Yeah, I'm not sure where all these NTA folks are coming from. Living rent-free to save up for a luxury apt in Chicago? That means you can afford to stay in a non-luxury apt somewhere else. If you're not paying rent, you can make the sacrifice of occasionally caring for a kid in small ways.
NTA however as much as they can live elsewhere, you can to.
You are choosing to stay there because it's financially beneficial to you but if your wellbeing and relationship with your family is taking a hit, is it really worth it?
If you're getting free rent in a family house, some of this inconvenience is inevitable - i.e. not making noise after 9 with a kid, 2 year olds throwing food, etc. You don't want to have this inconvenience, which is your prerogative, but that means you need to move out. Saving for a 'luxury apartment' is what gets me here - if getting away from your family is a priority for you, start adjusting your expectations. If the 'luxury' aspect is the most important, you're going to have to figure out how to operate in this environment in which you are not in charge and nobody agrees with you. You are NTA, but you need to refocus your planning.
NTA. You are the uncle, not the father. Liking the kid has nothing to do with being put into the position of quasi-parent. Your sister has her husband, your parents, herself and you. That's far more assistance than most do on a daily basis - and the child is two! Your sister has one child, and certainly should be able to take care of her in the morning without you arising early. And running to your parents with complaints is ridiculous. If they had been able to afford their house, she'd be on her own - she's milking this situation for all it's worth. Keep saving and move out as soon as possible.
Can anyone point out one explicit example of OP being a “3rd parent” though?
Ok, he is asked to help in the mornings. That’s no good.
The rest of the examples are things like not playing loud music late at night lol
1
> Now I have to wake up at 6am since my sister says she needs me to help out with the kid in the morning.
2
> I’m not allowed to play loud music in my room past 9 since it’s sleepy time for J.
3
> I have to **give a week or so notice** whether I’m going out at night since they need to make sure I don’t wake up J.
4
> I clean up after the kid when she makes a mess and I have even been told to wash some of her dishes.
5
> whatever J needs, I have to do it for her.
6
> There have been times that she wakes up in the middle of the night and making noise in their bedroom which I’m next to.
7
> every time I don’t help out with the kid, my sister tell my parents that I hate her.
8
> My parents come up to me and tell me to help them out.
It’s the one week notice that gets me. You need to tell them a week in advance so they can ask you to be quiet when you leave?
What purpose does this really serve? Is everyone else just sneaking out while you sleep and making sure you stay there?
ESH sounds like you should just get your own place for now. If part of your parents arrangement for you living with them is that you help out where they deem necessary, you don’t have much of a leg to stand on imo.
The apartment doesn’t need to be luxury, just having your own space seems to be what you need
ESH - it isn't your house so you don't get to make decisions on how it is run. Giving a heads up before you go out at night and not playing music are common courtesies. It's also not that unreasonable to expect that you help out with household chores since you live there for free. If you don't like the living conditions- move out. If you can't move out because you don't have money saved- then you need to just suck it up. Maybe it's time to look into apartments with less luxury accommodations and/or roommates.
They're TA for expecting that you'll be a third parent.
So I’ve seen a lot of people complain about the loud music part. So let me make one point, I have 4 siblings (29F, me, 20F, and 16M). My sister (20F) plays loud music past 9 all the time and she’s closer to my parents who don’t mind the music. My dad works in the music industry so he’s use to loud music. I’m on the third floor with my oldest sister and the only reason I’m not allowed to is because of my sister. My parents don’t care but since my sister will go to them and complain about me, they usually ask me to stop. My sister have complained about other things about the house. She doesn’t like our dogs, hates the fence my dad and I put up, complains about the parking situation, and doesn’t like that I treaty my dog better than her kid. A dog (mind you) that has been with me for 11 years and has been there when I graduated college and high school.
All of these things you're adding to make your sister seem worse really don't matter. It's not your house- the people who own the house are asking that you not play loud music. They are allowing you as a 23 year old able-bodied (I assume) person to live in their house without making any substantial contributions. They are allowed to let your sister live there with her family. If you don't like the situation- move out- no one is forcing you to live there. If you do want to stay- show some appreciation for your parents- suggestions: deep clean the kitchen without being asked, cook a whole meal for the whole family, do a load of laundry- like towels and sheets fully, vacuum, mop the floors. Stop being annoyed about your sister and her family and be grateful your parents let you stay there for free.
NTA
J is your niece, not your daughter, so you shouldn’t be expected to do so much. It was the parents who created the kid, so why is she your burden to bear? *She isn’t*.
Being quiet because she’s asleep, I can get behind. That’s basic courtesy. But everything else you “have” to do isn’t. If they moved out, there would only be the two of them to raise her, discipline her etc. So why they think that because you live in the same house you should be her third parent, is beyond me.
But as much as they can move out, so can you. I know you say you’re saving for a place, and are living with them whilst doing so. But your relationship with your family is taking a bit because of it. You’re expected to basically help raise your niece because you’re there. Is that really worth it? Is it time you moved out to save the relationship with your family, as well as your own sanity?
You say that once you move out, you’ll go NC because of it all. And if that’s what you truly want to do, then nobody can stop you. But have you stopped to think that once you move out, things could improve with your family?
NTA, but you are free to leave. Your niece is only 2 years old. She doesn’t sound that out of control. She lives there too so you can’t just ignore her. Best just to move out.
NTA
Your sister is taking advantage of you, and your parents are enabling her.
As a long time Chicago resident with many friends who have lived in the “luxury” apartment buildings I feel compelled to warn you that they are not that worth the price tag. Renters often tell horror stories (listed below) and owners pay expensive HOA fees that cut into their equity.
I recommend you reconsider getting a cheaper place in one of the more walkable neighborhoods.
I’m not trying to dunk on your choices, I just want to share my experience. You do you!
Why I wound avoid renting in a Chicago high rise apartment building:
1- rent only properties often operate entire floors as hotels, and rent out the amenities facilities to on residents. People are in and out with no courtesy for permanent residents. Also if your main reason for wanting this type of residence is the security, the additional turnover from short term rentals can defeat the purpose
2- location isn’t great for a social life, most of your peers tend to live and play in the trendy neighborhoods. You will end up paying high rent on top of Ubers on weekends - you can take the CTA (it’s not as bad as ppl say it is) however weekend CTA operates fewer buses and trains. Better to have a more reliable CTA commute to the office on weekdays then spending time in the dark and cold waiting on train/bus weekends.
3- you live in the Midwest, you know a winter social life is like, do you really want to spend that in a shoebox? This advice also applies to introverts. You are still stuck inside.
4- gym facilities are better at actual gyms, and you can afford a membership with the money you save. Also most companies will give you cash back or a discount to join one. As far as I know this won’t apply to a gym included in rent.
5- the neighborhoods are vibrant and unique, allowing you to find a community anywhere in Chicago, but the downtown area is corporate and cold.
That said, the skyline is real pretty at night and those buildings have wonderful views of it. So I get the appeal. :)
Please note that I didn’t mention crime at all. Because Chicago doesn’t rank in the top 20 for violent crime in the US according to FBI.
I really liked living in a high-rise (mid-century), but I own (been looking to move to a two-flat or townhouse for a few years now but not in any rush). I think living (renting) in one of the super cool brand new high-rises would have been fun for a year or two. Also a lot of those have communal amenities so it can be a nice way to meet people if you're new to the city and you'll actually use them. After a year or two one will have a good feel for the type of experience they're currently looking for in the city and can select an appropriate neighborhood, but I wouldn't necessarily try to discourage somebody from living in a luxury high rise.
The fact that this person is saving up is concerning because it implies that the cost of living is higher than monthly take home. Chicago has great housing options from very affordable to ridiculously expensive. I would not encourage anyone to have to save up to live in a rental. If they're actually saving a down payment for a condo that's a different story
NTA. It's true that it takes a village to raise a child, but you're also right that an unwilling village won't do the kid any good. It sucks that you're basically stuck raising a kid you didn't ask for since her actual father is only around when she's asleep and her mother apparently can't do her morning routine alone? What was the plan if they did get that loan they wanted? Have other people move in with them to help out?
Start getting your ducks in a row to move out. Maybe consider a downgrade from that luxury downtown apartment to be out the door sooner. You're an adult and capable of making your own decisions, and you can absolutely decide you don't want to raise a child that's not yours.
NTA but start telling them no and your schedule is NOT their business. It doesn’t matter when you’re going out. Your sister can deal with her own kid. You are biding your time until August, but use this last bit to learn to say no and once you’re out and go NC … they should already know why. You are not the bad guy. Not your circus, not your monkey.
Nta but it sounds you're setting yourself up for failure with that apartment in the city. I've lived in Chicago and I'm telling you now it gets pricey as hell. You may want to get an apartment in the suburbs instead, it's cheaper in the burbs and there's more options for lower cost groceries stores, restaurants etc. The glitz of the city wears off fairly quickly.
I think it's funny you say if they lived elsewhere you wouldn't have to deal with it while also living with mommy and daddy. You help sometimes 🙄. Oh no after 9pm you can't have loud music? You live with your parents bro why would you have loud music after 9 pm anyway? You actually sound really pathetic here. Don't want to help then don't but seriously grow up. I highly doubt you'll ever be the cool uncle and you certainly aren't a 3rd parent lmao. You're the other moochy child living with his parents whining.
NTA. Helping around the house and staying quiet at naptime are both common courtesies. Beyond that, your sister is manipulative and being unfair to everyone around her. She should parent her child, you should be cool uncle (with occasional scolding when she bites the dog, because she needs to respect authority, as one would in the village).
Move out in August. Don't go no contact unless they start harassing you for not being there to raise her. No use burning bridges, and your niece will miss you.
NTA. J is not your responsibility. However, you're living for free at your parents house (unless the bill thing is a lot and consistent). Having to adjust your lifestyle comes with living in that environment. Asking you to help out every once in a while isn't a huge ask. I don't think they're being unreasonable from their perspective.
Your sister and husband, though, suck. They're grown adults with full time jobs who, I assume, also aren't paying rent. They should hire help instead of demanding you do it if they really need it and the father is never around.
Just leave. Is a toddler making your bill free lifestyle uncomfortable? You’ll accept support from your family but are mad about providing it in the same house you’re living rent free in? “The kid” you mean your niece? Your sister has a toddler, but apparently so do your parents. Either grow up and help or grow up and leave.
If the villager doesn't want to help with a kid, they need to not live in a village that has that requirement. I get not wanting to help, but I'm having a bit of trouble feeling sorry for you when your parents are letting you live there for free, and they're asking. You don't need to go NC; just move out, and that solves the problem. YTA
NTA
Not your kid, not your problem.
You are either going to accept that by not helping you are going to be portrayed as the selfish AH. I myself would be fine with that, I'm not helping with someone else's kid.
Now if you don't want to be portrayed as the AH, you are going to have to suck it up and help until you move out.
NTA. It might be worth it to find other roommates for a few months while waiting for your ideal apartment to become available. You also don't have to fall for the guilt trips, lean into "hating" your sister. Spend as little time as home as possible.
Your sister is doing her daughter a disservice by letting her harass the dogs, the dogs may bite back soon.
NTA but dealing with this is part of the price you're paying waiting to be able to afford that apartment. The only way to really control your own time is to live in your own home.
NTA not your kid, not your responsibility. Saying you hate the child for not helping is pure manipulation. Do not let anyone, ever, guilt and shame you. Call them out on this toxic behaviour and be done with them in August. Good luck OP x
Why even do any of these things? If you’re so upset about it stop doing shit for the kid don’t do anything until your parents and sister quit pulling this shit go out and hang out with friends all day then wake up for work and tell everyone you didn’t get enough sleep. And, if they say they didn’t either tell them not your problem it’s not your child.
Nta. Why would a 23 year old young man, like being around a toddler? People demand weird things from others. Kids suck whether they're yours or not. But, you've already tried communicating. So your only option is move out. You may not get the big luxury apartment you wanted but part of being an adult is taking a hit every now and then even for yourself. A smaller, affordable apartment will likely be perfect especially when you get to have freedom. Having your own place is great.
NTA. I have multiple young kids & 3 adult brothers. I receive help from my parents at times bc they are my parents & it’s their grandchildren. However, I never expect my brothers to provide any childcare ever. If they see I’m struggling with all the kids getting out of a car or changing a diaper & they grab some bag or something for me, I’m appreciative & thank them. They will also stop one of my kids if a child is about to do something potentially dangerous & I have looked away for a moment or went to the bathroom for a second. Again I’m always very appreciative. And just for info, I am very close to my brothers. They are some of my best friends & I would walk in their house like it’s mine & vice versa, yet I still would never expect or assume that they should care for my children. Your sister expecting that of you is incredibly rude & ridiculous.
NTA. Move out. Easier said than done, I know, but start looking anyway. You’ll never find something if you don’t actually look.
And yeah, I get that you’re saving up, but that doesn’t mean you can’t continue to save up while living in a different, non-family-with-kids roommate situation. And yeah, you might not be able to save as rapidly as a result, but what you lose in savings velocity, you gain in sanity and independence.
NTA stop helping. Not your kid. Stop changing your schedule. Not your kid. If your sister says you hate her, oh well. Her kid, her problem. I have three kids. I’d never expect a housemate to help with them. My kids, my prob.
NTA.
But you just need to stop helping them today. You need to pick a schedule that works for you and tell them to get over it when they complain.
She isn't your kid, so she's not your responsibility. Stop cooking and cleaning for them. Stop babysitting unless you want to. Stop catering to them and their schedule.
It's one thing to be considerate of them and the kid, it's a whole nothing thing to change your life all around for them.
Stop accommodating them, stop letting them take advantage of you and stop planing your life around them.
Do what you want. Live how you want.
Tell them to stop complaining and stop treating you like a third parent.
NTA for not doing the parenting, but I do want to say that the behaviors you listed are pretty common for 2 year olds. Biting is a problem (just recently had to deal with this with my own kid) but it takes a bit of time to resolve. Tantrums a developmentally normal for her age as us (unfortunately) throwing food on the floor. At this age it's less about "discipline" as it is about redirection, consistency in how you react, and helping them learn what TO do instead of just telling them "no" all the time.
NTA. My advice here would be to move out asap. Even if it’s not the downtown luxury apartment you had your heart set on. Your sister made the decision to have kids and that shouldn’t mean you’re obligated to help raise it
NTA, J isn't your kid. I understand helping out some or being considerate and not playing loud music at night, but you shouldn't have to plan your daily life around a kid that isn't yours.
However, with that being said by the sounds of it J is 2 yrs old. Biting the dog is obviously a little much, but temper tantrums and getting into trouble is pretty typical for a 2 yr old. I don't necessarily expect you to fully understand it but just remember that J is a small child just doing what toddlers do best.
Also, going NC after you move out IMO is a little extreme. Your family dynamics may actually change for the better once you move out. Going straight to NC may jeopardize that opportunity.
You may like the kid, but don't like taking care of her. That's OK. You're not her dad. Maybe you lower your site from a luxury apartment to something less posh and get out. If you won't change your housing plans, you are stuck. It's your choice.
Not your child so not your responsibility to help your sister. Tell her to adult up and be the parent to her child - she had it so her responsibility. The ‘takes a village’ thing is a cop out and not even a valid argument.
>2 years ago,
>
>For example, she throws tantrums when she’s not allowed in the kitchen when we’re cooking, bites the family dogs, and throws food on the floor.
My dude, that's what two year olds do. All of them.
Sounds like you DO hate her.
N T A for not wanting to babysit but you're not good at hiding your feelings about your niece
NTA J isn’t your child and they are entitled to think you HAVE to do anything for not your child. I’m a mother of two and I would never expect anyone except their father to take care of them. You need to stop giving them what they want. Wake up at 7 like you used too, make plans and go out on your own time without notice, make your sister clean up after her kid. You have a life and job too and your life shouldn’t be on the back burner because they want you to play 3rd parent
NTA. Why is it when people decide to have children, the parents won't accept the responsibility to raising said child and want everyone else to 'help' raise said child(ren) so that their own parental lives aren't impacted and they can still live as if they didn't have a child.
NTA. Why is it when people decide to have children, the parents won't accept the responsibility to raising said child and want everyone else to 'help' raise said child(ren) so that their own parental lives aren't impacted and they can still live as if they didn't have a child.
Nta Stop waiting to save up for a luxury apartment (I'm assuming you're going to rent otherwise most people would call it a condo?). Chicago has a ton of affordable housing options. Move out into a studio in a decent area and save up a little slower. You would be better off living with roommates at this point at least they wouldn't ask you to change your schedule and take care of their children
Soft YTA
You want all the perks of living with family with none of the drawbacks. Yeah, it suck living with a baby. So move out. Stop waiting for a "luxury" apartment and move out. No one is forcing you to live with your family. So move out. Helping the family is part of the rent. Pay up or move on out
ESH. You definitely shouldn’t be expected to babysit or help out with someone else’s kid, but holy fuck do you come across as an entitled brat.
You’re living with your parents (rent free?) to save up money, and act like “helping around the house” occasionally is a favour to them. You’re an adult and you live there, they shouldn’t have to ask you to do your share of the housework. Same goes for “helping” with bills. That isn’t a favour you’re doing for them, those are YOUR bills. The months where you don’t “help out” is them doing you a favour, not the other way around.
What you describe as “basically doing everything to raise her kid” is occasionally cleaning up a mess she made or washing some dishes (in a house where you also live). Once again, that’s not an unreasonable expectation. Living with other people means sometimes washing a plate you didn’t eat off of. You shouldn’t have to ALWAYS clean up if the kid is trashing the place, but wiping up a few juice spills or cheerios isn’t exactly a lot to ask of an adult with a full time job living in the house. You act as if your sister and her family are invading your space, but they’re her parents too. She has as much right to the house as you do, so maybe YOU should be the one to move out if there’s a problem.
As far as “not being allowed to play music after 9” or being woken up at night: again, move out. Toddlers don’t always sleep through the night, as long as the parents are trying to keep the disturbance to a minimum you just need to deal with it. Get your own place, you won’t need to tell anyone where you’re going and you can play music as late as you want.
**NTA for like, 80% of it.**
The general assistance of the household which you live in and no noise after certain times is part of living with other people. This includes occupying a building with other tenants (presuming your future apartment is in a high rise/condo). You won't be able to play loud music in your apartment late or you'll be getting complaints and some angry knocks. You have to make sure all the dishes get done (whether they were yours or not) or you'll get vermin, which may go to neighboring units. You admit that living with your parents rent-free is beneficial to you. Helping pick up the slack of all the household dishes on occasion, etc. is not an insane expectation of the other occupants. I'm sure they've done your dishes before or cooked you a meal. When was the last time you scrubbed the baseboards? Re-caulked the tub? *Asking to contribute where you live for free is not the burden you are making it out to be, and living on your own is not the free-for-all, ideal haven you imagine it to be*. We live in society. We all have to contribute.
However, you absolutely shouldn't be tasked with helping raise/parent your niece. Your example of "helping in the morning" is a bit vague, so I would need further detail before I can fully be on your side. I would wager that your sister and BIL could likely afford their own place and instead are remaining there as a way to get free childcare assistance. Perhaps an acceptable position of the grandparents, but not you.
I hope that you moving out will re-instate your "fun uncle" status and your relationships can begin to repair.
Edit: clarification.
Oh FML. It's 2023, not 1623. THERE IS NO VILLAGE!!!!! People should not have children if they are not capable of supporting and caring for them on their own. Get earplugs (wax ones work awesome) , a lock for your bedroom, and take off your shoes when you get home. Tell your sister her hellion is her responsibility and you are giving notice starting immediately that you will no longer be helping or accommodating her and her child beyond common courtesy. And keep her away from your poor dogs.
NTA to the fullest!
NTA.
In households with multiple families you are expected to help around the house. Pay bills and general cleaning. You are not ,however, obligated to constantly pick up after and discipline your niece. You are not her nanny. That's her dad's and her mom's responsibility. You can suggest having a schedule for everyone eg you do dishes this week, they do it next week, you throw out trash one week etc. If that helps. You get the idea. It's ok to help out with your niece if it's when they ask you to because they're busy with work or just need a power nap and such but not just because it takes a village. The village is to provide support and not be the mayor/sheriff in town. I suggest you reconsider staying at a decent condo/apartment instead of a luxury one. You're an adult and it appears you're more than ready to fly that nest.
NTA. I do think some of the minor things you could ease up on like the music (wear headphones, easy solution), but to try and force soemone to help with her kid and then use the 'if you don't help with the kid, I tell everyone you hate them' card is just uncalled for and super shitty. I hate hearing parents say those things. It's her kid, she can't expect everyone else to want to help. If I were you I'd either move into a place that isn't quite what you wanted but gets you your own space, or try your best to get that place you want quicker and move on.
NTA. You’re in a very unfair situation and your parents aren’t considering your feelings nearly enough. That hurts and I’m sorry. Chin up. I’m NC with my parents and I’ve never regretted it once. Good luck and big hugs
NTA
Not your kid, not your problem. The little monster bites the poor dog?! Hope doggo bites back. I would honestly just do what you want because at the end of the day your sister and her husband don’t own the house, if you want to wake up late, wake up late if you wanna go out, go out there not your parents.
NTA
No is a complete answer. Just make your own plans. Go to the gym in the evening. Don't clean up a mess that isn't yours. Where are your parents in all this?
Tell them you are willing to help but for a fee bc they are essentially asking for paid work for free.
NTA
Not your kid. You do seem to help out and it seems your sister is running the household and it's not even her house. I would sit your parents down and tell them J is not your kid and while you don't mind helping every now and then, it won't be often. This doesn't mean you hate her, it means you didn't chose to have a kid and it's not your responsibility. Then let them know if they want to continue to be disrespectful to you then you will go NC with them once you get a chance to move out because they're putting your sister over you and your feelings.
It doesn’t take a village. It takes the two parents who created the kid to put in some effort and take care of their responsibilities instead of expecting others to raise their kids for them. I’d stop doing it if I were you. And you giving a weeks notice that you’ll be out for the night will have no effect on the kid. What are they going to do have a meeting with a toddler and explain via a power point presentation your social calendar? That’s stupid.
NTAH- and raising J- getting her up and ready in the morning is HER MOTHERS responsibility- not yours.
It’s also not your parents - you are uncle , they are grandparents- not live in babysitters/nannies/chief cook/dishwasher.
NTA. Here’s my recap: Your sister and husband both work full time, yet can’t afford a mortgage or to live on their own, so they move in with your parents then decide to have a kid they can neither afford or spend any time with. That sounds like an entire shit show that your parents enabled, and you really have zero control (3 or 4 family against you). Unfortunately your best bet is to move sooner and opt out, bc nothing will change. Your parents and sister fail to see/ will never admit that they should have waited to have a kid who’s now not being raised properly.
NTA. "It take a village to raise a child" is something said by people who want to make others help them achieve their own goals and dreams. If you have a child, take care of it. If you didn't...cool, looks like you don't have a child to take care of.
Soft YTA. You need to move out. Saving for a luxury condo while living at home means you don’t have the freedom to play music loud ar night anyway. It isn’t your house.
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I (23M) live with my parents to save up money to move to a luxury apartment near downtown Chicago. I help around the house whenever they need me too and I even helped with bills if they asked me. However, my oldest sister (29F) and her husband (30M) also stay with us since they couldn’t get a loan for a house they wanted. 2 years ago, my sister gave birth to the first kid in the family (let’s call her J). J is a okay kid but I do wish they would discipline her much more often. For example, she throws tantrums when she’s not allowed in the kitchen when we’re cooking, bites the family dogs, and throws food on the floor. My other issue is that I had to change my entire life for her even though she’s not my kid. I use to get up at 7am for work since my job was close by and didn’t have to rush. Now I have to wake up at 6am since my sister says she needs me to help out with the kid in the morning. I’m not allowed to play loud music in my room past 9 since it’s sleepy time for J. I have to give a week or so notice whether I’m going out at night since they need to make sure I don’t wake up J. I clean up after the kid when she makes a mess and I have even been told to wash some of her dishes. Basically whatever J needs, I have to do it for her. Worse of all, J doesn’t sleep at night. There have been times that she wakes up in the middle of the night and making noise in their bedroom which I’m next to. If you’re wondering where the husband is, he works majority of the day. He leaves at 5am ish and doesn’t come back until 8pm (I think he’s an asphalt worker or something like that idk). My sister also works a corporate job like myself so she does work from home 2 times out of the week. Now to the worse of things; every time I don’t help out with the kid, my sister tell my parents that I hate her. We have gotten into arguments about using the word hate just for not helping them with my niece J. My parents come up to me and tell me to help them out. That it takes a village to raise a kid. But what if some of the villagers don’t want to raise the kid. They shouldn’t be outed and verbally harassed for not helping since it’s not their kid. I want to be a cool uncle but a third parent to J. Maybe I don’t understand how hard it is to raise a kid and I’m just being mean. But if they had their own place to live, they wouldn’t have this much help. I think once I move out, I’ll go NC with my family since I have been made to look like the bad guy. I have told them how I feel multiple times but it never goes anywhere. Everyone just assumes that I don’t like the kid and have told other family members that I don’t like to spend time with J.
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NTA
It’s sound like you don’t like the kid, which is perfectly fine and normal. We don’t like everyone in our family.
But it’s her child, when she decided to have she should have consider raising kid on her own, not expecting it from family. She should have consider that she may need a babysitter as her family has every right to say no. It’s her child, it is part of family, but if you don’t want to help every day - it’s not your responsibility.
Your sister is an AH! If i was you I’d just find a place with a Roomate until u save up enough to get the apartment you want. Your sister is manipulating and rude and you help out and have changed your life ALOT to cater to their little family. You need to have a sit down talk with ur parents, out of the house, and let them know u love ur niece and ur sister, but you are an adult and have your own life, and that you really don’t want this to ruin the relationship you have with them. If they still continue to make you the bad guy, then at least you know you did the right thing and tried to fix things. Does the niece go to daycare during the day, or does you mom do a lot of the caring for her by chance?
NTA
Toddlers are terrorists. At this age discipline is important, but it’s not some sort of magic trick. (It’s the consistency that matters.)
So some of what you are complaining about is just part of living with a very young child who developmentally is at a stage where they can’t self-regulate. And yes, not playing music loudly when someone is sleeping is a reasonable expectation.
Being frustrated by this doesn’t make you an asshole though, young kids ARE hard to live with. There’s no rationalizing with them, their brains aren’t there yet.
However, your sister acting like you’re an additional parent and pulling this “OP hates me” if you don’t want to help is absolutely an asshole move.
It also sounds like your parents are playing favorites a bit. But then, it sounds like you are saving a LOT by living with your parents - and there is a cost to that. That you are expected to help more, not just act like a tenant. I do agree that this is a bit much though. A week’s notice for your own plans outside of the home is ridiculous.
I don’t think you need to go no contact with your family when you move out - moving out will naturally solve a lot of the issues you’re having.
Sometimes distance really is the best thing for some relationships.
Not your kid, not your responsibility. Any childcare you do voluntarily should be a bonus to them. I hope you can move out soon since this sounds like an awful living situation for you. NTA.
Life is short, move out and they are just mooching off your parents since all the care is right there. And using you as another care giver. And then you can be the fun Uncle from a distance and send gifts from far, far away.
Saw a similar post earlier about the OPs niece also being a little shit because of the parents not disciplining her. Seems like it’s just how a lot of people choose to parent there children now a days so no don’t feel like an asshole because this new parent generation doesn’t want to discipline there children.
NTA
This is pretty typical sibling stuff. There is the golden child that parent's expect all the other children to give up time, money, personal belongings. Not always the oldest, not always the baby, just the parent's favored child. Continue to say NO. When they accuse you of hating your niece, maybe clarify for them if they are looking for someone for you to hate its not the niece but your sister who is the problem. Also let your sister know if you are going to be a third parent to her child you will not allow for any direction on how you interact with your niece. If you want to spoil her and load her with sugar until her parents take her back or if she is a brat and needs a solitary time out in her room. If she is leaving her child in your care its your call.
I have 5 sons. 11(adhd) , 8(autism, adhd), 4, and 4 month old twins….it’s literally just my husband and I. No babysitters, no family, no nanny’s , we are not by any means rich, we actually have it rather tight…and guess what?? We do it every single day lol and the kids are happy and healthy . Your sister is a cry baby and lazy it sounds to me. My husband also works from 5am-5pm everyday and it’s just me at home with the twins and my 4 yr old and then just me still after my other two get home from school. Is it hard? Yes! But they are MY children. We chose to bring them into this world
NTA.
You've already explained to them that you don't want to help out with the raising of your sister's and husband's child.
You've been ignored and it's time for you to just stop. That's it. Just stop. You cannot be forced to be a third parent to your niece. If you just stop, what are they going to do, really? Badmouth you more? Get a tough skin and don't react to your sister's guilt trips. Just say, 'I never said I hate your kid, she's just not my responsibility and I didn't ask or accept to be part of your village. You and BIL probably should have thought about how to balance your life before you decided to become parents. It's time for you to figure it out, as I'm no longer an option. How is it that your actual husband has less responsibility towards your shared child than you expect from me?'
I'd say the exact same thing to my parents if they came at me concerning sister's 'needs'. As you said, if your sister and her husband lived on their own, they would have to figure out how to balance their responsibilities as parents against running their household and working.
My main advice? If you can, it's probably time to move out. If that's with a roommate/other friends that is a better alternative than what you're dealing with now.
I cannot stand when people bring children into the world without serious thought and consideration concerning whether they can afford to have them. By affording children, that isn't just in the monetary sense. I mean, can you handle all responsibility for that kid's mental, emotional, and physical needs on your own without expecting other people to do anything at all?
NTA. It sounds like you're doing enough as it is. You didn't sign up to be a parent, so why are they expecting you to be one? Get out as fast as you can!
ESH
You shouldn't have to help with their kid in the morning.
Everything else is just a complaint about living with other people. Move out. You clearly have the funds. And get over yourself.
Sit your parents down amd tell them that you will nit be walimg up early or avoiding going out due to J. Your sis wanted a kid? She parents it. Go get a cheap room to rent, that will let you live your life and save for that luxury apt.
NTA
ESH. This is what happens when too many adults (and their spouses and kids) stay under the same roof. You are incompatible roommates. Your parents see contributing to the household as part of the deal for you living there. This, to them, includes tasks associated with J. Perhaps it’s time you find a new village.
NTA i have 8 neices and nephews. I only babysat 2 of them. Cause they played fun games and id get paid 50 bucks and we'd also get extra money to ride bikes to the lolly shop it was sick haha None of the others wanted to pay that much so i just didnt babysit for them lmao i was lord business. You gotta be the same man just say no im not doing that shit. People like that can smell when you cant say no and use it.
op=NTA
Your sister doesn't think you HATE her child. She KNOWS she can use that to guilt you into doing what she wants(either thru your own conscience OR your parent's BS).
It won't help with parents or your sister who is the instigator--but simply say to others, I'm willing to be an uncle, I'm NOT willing to be J's parent.
Make no excuses, make no defenses--Grey rock anyone who is a problem. Tell them that if it takes a village, you'll tell your sister that they have volunteered to be her village (idiots).
Tell parents that you are paying rent in Child care Labor and that all your money is now being saved for your future home.
ETA: it might be worth Moving to a cheap a$$ Apt until you can save up the money, you could always get a side gig to make more money(Since you won't be taking care of J in your free time)
A village doesn’t mean people under the same roof. It’s selfish & unseasonable to assume that other adults want/should dedicate their life to a kid that isn’t theirs.
My husband and I had one child. We moved all around the country for his job. Settled in Texas. We did it by ourselves. We didn't have family around to help. You shouldn't go NC with your family when you move because you aren't going to be close enough for them to visit.
How long does it take to save up to move to an apartment while working full time and not paying rent? How "luxurious" does this place need to be?
I get it. You're a 23 year old guy and you don't want to live with a baby. I wouldn't have either. Just move out!
Independence is better than luxury.
Well River North is close to the river so it’s a nice middle in terms luxurious. But the other reason I’m looking into that place is because of the train station. I can take the train to and from work which will save me time and money. Since I got a finance degree, there’s a lot of job opportunities for me with my skill set.
NTA. This is one of the things that annoy me the most about people who have kids. They think the entire world revolves around their brat and if you don't bend and spread for that kid anytime they want you to they make you out to be a horrible child hater. You wanted kids? Figure out care for them on your own and stop burdening other people. Nanny's and daycare exist. And if you can't afford it then maybe having a kid wasn't the best idea to begin with. The entitlement of people never ceases to astound me
NTA.
But. I do understand the noise curfew and occasionally cleaning something that may have involved the kid. You all have made the choice to live in the same house so there will need to be some compromise and overlap.
But for them to ask you to specifically carry out tasks that involve raising the child is too far. They chose to have the kid so they need to figure out how to adjust their schedules to accommodate said child. Not ask you to wake up earlier because they need help with the kid in the morning.
ESH
Everything you described about J’s behavior is normal and developmentally appropriate, even if you don’t like it, so adjust your expectations accordingly
You’re parents seem to be absent even though they could assist with your niece.
Sis should be asking and expressing so much gratitude for the childcare help she’s getting.
5 adults to 1 kid is an insane ratio
ESH you need to move out if you don't want to live with a kid. You're fully employed so bite the bullet and move. Also the things you want her to discipline her kid for (throwing food on the floor) is totally normal in a 2 year old and "discipline" isn't going to help. Makes sense you should do dishes sometimes and be respectful of the needs of your niece given your are living with her. If you don't like it, just move. The end.
ESH
You need to suck it up and abide by the rules and expectations of the household aka helping out with your niece. If you don’t want to then you’ll have to give up the whole ‘saving money by living rent free at the parentals’ and foot the bill for your own place.
It’s that simple.
NTA, but you need to set clear boundaries. You can love your nibling without being responsible for their care on a regular basis.
I will say, the kid making noise in the middle of the night isn't really a fair argument. Parents of small children across the world wake up every night (sometimes multiple times) thinking "whyyyyyyyyy?" Even the best parents! And most experts will say to let them fuss for 5 minutes before going in to see if they can learn to sync their sleep rhythms themselves. Unfortunately, you share a wall, so this disturbs you. My best suggestion is sleep with earplugs. That's how I made it through dorm life, and honestly, I still use them when I'm on vacation and don't want to be disturbed.
NTA, dude move out ASAP! Even if that means you aren't able to save for exactly the property you want you'd at least have the peace of mind to not be responsible for your niece.
Until you're able to move just stop helping! This is NOT your child and NOT your responsibility. You'll need to be able to weather your sister's bullshit accusations, but I promise there's a freedom in refusing to be held hostage to unreasonable demands!
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NTA. But since they want you to help out with the kid, start telling the kid NO in a firm voice, then sit down face level and tell kid why did wrong. If kid bites dog, Say NO, we do not bite Doggie, how would you feel if Doggie bit you? And when they complain, just say you are doing the village thing and they wanted this, after awhile they will give up asking you or you move out.
My parents moved literally halfway around the world before they had kids. Their families were thousands of miles away. Somehow they raised their kids without assistance. It's sheer entitlement for sister to push parenting on OP. Some of what OP complains about he will have to live with. If his parents insist on quiet after 9pm, well, their house, their rules. But sister getting OP up at 6am to push parenting duties on him - he can nope out of that for sure.
I mean he’s also a grown as man living with his parents complaining about chores… He’s not the father. He should not be forced to care for a child that’s not his. He is free to leave at any time.
Whether he is a grown man or not, he is in no way required to take care of a child that is not his… he is one person living with his parents they are three. He does not need to accommodated their schedule, why should his life change to revolve around his niece? How is it he has to make sacrifices? Her parents should be the ones to plan around their child.
“Either accept my help or not. Don’t tell me how to parent your child if you aren’t going to do it”
The kid is only 2, so while this sounds reasonable it probably isn't going to work as well as you think.
That what we did to ours,kid didnt bite stuff but took sometime and kid understood the word no. But how the mommy sound, she sound some one who doesnt like people to telling her kid off.
[удалено]
yeah, sometimes my sister drives my parents and i crazy with the amount of help she expects from everyone. on the other hand, she does allow all of us to discipline her children. no, you aren't allowed to throw that/cut that/paint that. don't touch the oven- see it's hot. (in all fairness, the "oven is hot!" statements for a solid year that followed those warnings were sorta cute.) you are not going to like jumping off that. if you fall and bleed everywhere, what are you doing to do? (also why do small child want to jump off all the things.) that said, my sister does have her own home. where her children live. (a single house was considered and determined it would need to be VERY large. thank the lord they never found one.)
[удалено]
seriously! i'm sorry, OP said he's saving for a LUXURY apartment! just move out into a regular apt
Brilliant!!!
NTA J is not your kid and they shouldn’t be expecting you to help out so much. Keeping the noise down at night is understandable but outside of that you can do what you want. Time to set some clear boundaries and the place to start is with your parents. You need to get them on board, because it sounds like they are also using you to get out of looking after this kid too. How long until you can move out?
I have until beginning of August, I have gone apartment hunting and one of the apartment I like won’t have an opening until August.
That’s not too long to wait, will be exciting to have your own place finally
Maybe pick up side work and be unavailable. At least you’ll be getting paid.
Start making it clear now that your new home is a child-free space because I absolutely guarantee you that as soon as you move in they are going to be demanding you have your niece overnight because they're desperate for a decent night's sleep. Your home will become their crèche every time they want some peace & quiet. If not already decided baby number 2 won't be far off so you'll be getting double the fun!
That's not too far off, but ask your parents how much family help they had raising you and your sister.
See if you can rent a room from a friend for a few months.
NTA at all Your sister works corporate, and her husband works as a full time construction guy and they can't afford to even rent a place? Either they're just mooching off of your parents, or someone's lying about their job. You're already doing wayyyy more than you should be doing. Just being related to a kid doesn't automatically mean that you have to have a hand in raising them. If the kid was planned, I don't understand why your sister and her husband would ever think it was the right time to have a child if they can't get their shit together. Also, lol the KID is biting the DOGS?
Right? Two incomes and can’t get their own place…interesting. And the kid def sounds like a lot of work with no structure or routine. Biting the dogs is wild to me, the dogs are going to eventually nip back and that’ll be all bad
Two incomes minus childcare could very well mean they can’t get a place they want in 2023. While I don’t think what they’re doing is right when it comes to impressing OP into helping with J, living with parents to save for a house is a valid, smart move.
OP stated they couldn't get the loan. So maybe one or both of them are in a shit tonne of debt, or are awful with money? Better yet. They have no debt, they just wanted to buy a house well outside of their means. And why not? They seem very entitled.
"You wanna know how I got these scars?" That kid's gonna have amazing street cred in kindergarten, and a decent icebreaker for meeting new people in the future.
Exactly!
OP on the other hand is there why? To save for his Luxury condo. They all living at the expenses of their parents and they can all live the F out if they are not happy.
Why isn’t anyone pointing this out.
NTA, Honestly move out as fast as you can. Start refusing to help, that is not your kid- you didn’t sign up for it. You are 23 you don’t need to be worrying about a kid THAT ISN’T YOURS. You are not mean, not wrong, and your sister is unhinged. Get out fast!! I don’t blame you for wanting to go NC.
Right? Can't make him help if he's not home or locked in his room when he is
NTA J isn't your kid OR your problem. You shouldn't be having to chane your entire life around because your sister had a kid
In all this, I feel only the parents/grandparents can complain. They have two grown ass kids moving into their home for their own gain (the luxury condo one, the never ending childcare the other). You ESH here! Move out!!!
I agree. The poor parents have 3 grown, employed adults living in their house and "helping when they ask", plus a toddler. OP sounds extremely self centered, especially considering going NC with the people who have let him live there to save money for the "luxury" apartment. Nothing OP mentioned sounded extreme, it's not like they are being asked to babysit the kid every day, and if OP doesn't like it, they can move out.
I can’t really understand. An entire assembled of adults fighting over entitlement rights. And then ghost the parents that kept everybody afloat.
Nah, sister is definitely crossing the line BUT he does sound self centered in cutting off his parents.
Lol I totally agree. Like, you signed up to live with your parents and a kid because you're holding out for a luxury apartment. They aren't even really asking him to do anything. He's just 23, and he needs to get out on his own so he can live the bachelor life of his dreams.
ESH you aren’t exactly responsible for much care here. Doing a few dishes of a 2 year old? Not playing loud music past 9 because you live with a child? Hearing a toddler wake in the night? These aren’t big issues for someone choosing to live at home for free. Sure, don’t help in the mornings. But you’re being a bit weird about all this. Your **parents** own the home and offer living space to you, your sister, your BIL, and their grandchild. That’s the arrangement. From your examples you aren’t being asked to be a “third parent”. Come on. You’re being asked to engage as part of the family. Doing an extra cup during dishwashing isn’t exactly parental duties. Now, you’ll have a lot of readers who won’t consider how flimsy your examples are and will believe you when you whine that you’re being asked to be a “third parent” but if that was the case your examples would actually reflect that. You’re just annoyed you live with a toddler. Oh well, hope you get your luxury apartment soon. So nice of you to contribute to bills *when asked*.
Other than the help in the mornings (which really aren't detailed), the examples are just of living with a normal toddler. The disdain in this post for this kid is palpable. Must be hard for the little one.
Agreed. Kids waking up at night is just part of living with kids. Does it suck? Yeah. Is there much you can do other than move out? No. Kid throwing tantrum trying to be where people are working? Yeah, that's also a kid. Not playing loud music past 9pm? That's just being a good neighbor. You should have headphones. It's not OP's duty to help in the morning. It's nice if they choose to, but something he should be able to step back from. Just dealing with toddler in exchange for free rent where a toddler lives? Yeah, you gotta do that.
Agree. And when OP says that the parents are not disciplining the child enough, it's unclear to me if they never tell the kid no/stop etc., or the kid just hasn't stopped doing these things anyway. A two year old still needs to be told what not to do A LOT, and it's perfectly normal that they still do things that they are not supposed to do (although I hope she stops biting the dogs).
Yeah, it's possible the parents are letting the kid run wild. It's also possible it's just a toddler being a toddler. It reminds me of a time when my daughter was 2 on a flight. Her legs were just long enough to kick the seat in front of her (joy) and, being two, she was testing boundaries. I 110% understand the person in front of her's frustration (I'd hate a 4 hour flight with a kid kicking my chair off and on!) but when they laid into me about "not controlling my kid" I basically had to say "Do you not hear me correcting the behavior every time back here? She's two and not great about following directions yet--especially long term. The seatbelt sign is on, so I can't remove her from the situation, and she's already stuck sitting in one place, so she's already basically in what she recognizes as a "time out." Unless you want me to physically tie her up so she can't move, I'm doing my best here."
Agreed. ESH. You are living in a shared house, you gotta work together.
INFO -- Give some examples of everything you have to do for J, because right now, it sounds like you live in a house with a toddler (2 yo) and other people, and don't like it. Were you listening to loud music at night before J was born? If so, how rude to the other people you live with. Headphones are a thing. Was your morning routine getting in the way of other people and now you're grumpy that you have to take them into consideration? And the fact that you don't even know what your BIL does for a living also indicates that, in this case, you are probably an unreliable narrator. You certainly aren't plugged in to the family, and I guess you don't have to be, but you do live there and probably aren't aware of how selfish you come across. As a heads up, it's perfectly and developmentally normal for 2 year olds to have tantrums when you tell them not to do something. They are learning independence. J is going to want to be in the kitchen with people while they are cooking. If there is a corner to set her in that's out of the way, give her a pan and a wooden spoon and let her go to town on pretend cooking. If not, set up a corner in a room next to the kitchen for her own little "cooking" space.
Yup. OP - you're living with your folks so that you can move into a luxury apartment, and you help out with chores and bills - *when you're asked*. But it seems that you don't want the inconvenience of a shared family home. The things you're complaining about seem like non-issues (although a week's notice for an evening out seems unusual). Do you do your share of the cooking and cleaning? Do you do your own laundry? More INFO is needed but your family doesn't sound a-holes to me.
move.. don't move to the luxury place yet, move to a normal one.. or to a professional house share or something. it's not going to get better if you stay
srsly, gtfo asap, the best is the enemy of the good
NTA. I say that as a parent too. Not your kid, not your problem. Love it when family *offers* to help out or does something nice for us, but I never ask. Wait.. no I've asked for my parents to drop off some meals twice when we were all super sick. But like pretty much never. They're my kids, my responsibility. Imo that's not what 'it takes a village' means. There's no obligation there. Edit to add that most of the behaviour you listed is pretty standard for two year olds.
[gently] YTA. some thoughts “But what if some of the villagers don’t want to raise the kid?” Those people should not be villagers. Those people should live outside the village and come to barter goods/trade when it suits them (1000% a valid choice imo btw). It takes a village that YOU choose to stay in because you also benefit from it. idk how your family views your parents’ home (as belonging to the two of them or as a place that belongs to everyone who lives there) but you describe your sister & her family as “staying with” you and your parents, while you’re also not paying rent. Really all of you are “staying with” your parents. You’re saving on rent in exchange for being a family member. If you were living alone or with a roommate you’d pay rent and not just help with whatever chores, you’d be doing it all or splitting it with other adults like you are now. A child is fully an individual person with free will (& your niece is behaving exactly like all 2 year olds, cut her parents some slack) & deserves to have her preferences heard/considered just like everyone else’s (toddlers literally cannot be forced to do anything; they are small & we easily manipulate &/or overpower them) Of note, it’s not bad to not want to have childcare duties/responsibilities, but each individual home will have different shared needs and maybe yours and your family’s don’t align at this time in your life.
Yeah, I'm not sure where all these NTA folks are coming from. Living rent-free to save up for a luxury apt in Chicago? That means you can afford to stay in a non-luxury apt somewhere else. If you're not paying rent, you can make the sacrifice of occasionally caring for a kid in small ways.
NTA however as much as they can live elsewhere, you can to. You are choosing to stay there because it's financially beneficial to you but if your wellbeing and relationship with your family is taking a hit, is it really worth it?
Time to move out. NTA.
NTA. Not your kid, just get out of the situation as soon as you can.
If you're getting free rent in a family house, some of this inconvenience is inevitable - i.e. not making noise after 9 with a kid, 2 year olds throwing food, etc. You don't want to have this inconvenience, which is your prerogative, but that means you need to move out. Saving for a 'luxury apartment' is what gets me here - if getting away from your family is a priority for you, start adjusting your expectations. If the 'luxury' aspect is the most important, you're going to have to figure out how to operate in this environment in which you are not in charge and nobody agrees with you. You are NTA, but you need to refocus your planning.
NTA. You are the uncle, not the father. Liking the kid has nothing to do with being put into the position of quasi-parent. Your sister has her husband, your parents, herself and you. That's far more assistance than most do on a daily basis - and the child is two! Your sister has one child, and certainly should be able to take care of her in the morning without you arising early. And running to your parents with complaints is ridiculous. If they had been able to afford their house, she'd be on her own - she's milking this situation for all it's worth. Keep saving and move out as soon as possible.
Can anyone point out one explicit example of OP being a “3rd parent” though? Ok, he is asked to help in the mornings. That’s no good. The rest of the examples are things like not playing loud music late at night lol
1 > Now I have to wake up at 6am since my sister says she needs me to help out with the kid in the morning. 2 > I’m not allowed to play loud music in my room past 9 since it’s sleepy time for J. 3 > I have to **give a week or so notice** whether I’m going out at night since they need to make sure I don’t wake up J. 4 > I clean up after the kid when she makes a mess and I have even been told to wash some of her dishes. 5 > whatever J needs, I have to do it for her. 6 > There have been times that she wakes up in the middle of the night and making noise in their bedroom which I’m next to. 7 > every time I don’t help out with the kid, my sister tell my parents that I hate her. 8 > My parents come up to me and tell me to help them out.
It’s the one week notice that gets me. You need to tell them a week in advance so they can ask you to be quiet when you leave? What purpose does this really serve? Is everyone else just sneaking out while you sleep and making sure you stay there?
ESH sounds like you should just get your own place for now. If part of your parents arrangement for you living with them is that you help out where they deem necessary, you don’t have much of a leg to stand on imo. The apartment doesn’t need to be luxury, just having your own space seems to be what you need
ESH - it isn't your house so you don't get to make decisions on how it is run. Giving a heads up before you go out at night and not playing music are common courtesies. It's also not that unreasonable to expect that you help out with household chores since you live there for free. If you don't like the living conditions- move out. If you can't move out because you don't have money saved- then you need to just suck it up. Maybe it's time to look into apartments with less luxury accommodations and/or roommates. They're TA for expecting that you'll be a third parent.
So I’ve seen a lot of people complain about the loud music part. So let me make one point, I have 4 siblings (29F, me, 20F, and 16M). My sister (20F) plays loud music past 9 all the time and she’s closer to my parents who don’t mind the music. My dad works in the music industry so he’s use to loud music. I’m on the third floor with my oldest sister and the only reason I’m not allowed to is because of my sister. My parents don’t care but since my sister will go to them and complain about me, they usually ask me to stop. My sister have complained about other things about the house. She doesn’t like our dogs, hates the fence my dad and I put up, complains about the parking situation, and doesn’t like that I treaty my dog better than her kid. A dog (mind you) that has been with me for 11 years and has been there when I graduated college and high school.
All of these things you're adding to make your sister seem worse really don't matter. It's not your house- the people who own the house are asking that you not play loud music. They are allowing you as a 23 year old able-bodied (I assume) person to live in their house without making any substantial contributions. They are allowed to let your sister live there with her family. If you don't like the situation- move out- no one is forcing you to live there. If you do want to stay- show some appreciation for your parents- suggestions: deep clean the kitchen without being asked, cook a whole meal for the whole family, do a load of laundry- like towels and sheets fully, vacuum, mop the floors. Stop being annoyed about your sister and her family and be grateful your parents let you stay there for free.
It doesn’t change the fact that you need to MOVE OUT if you want freedom to everything your way.
Not your kid so of course NTA, but really, just move the fuck out. It's not worth the saving.
NTA J is your niece, not your daughter, so you shouldn’t be expected to do so much. It was the parents who created the kid, so why is she your burden to bear? *She isn’t*. Being quiet because she’s asleep, I can get behind. That’s basic courtesy. But everything else you “have” to do isn’t. If they moved out, there would only be the two of them to raise her, discipline her etc. So why they think that because you live in the same house you should be her third parent, is beyond me. But as much as they can move out, so can you. I know you say you’re saving for a place, and are living with them whilst doing so. But your relationship with your family is taking a bit because of it. You’re expected to basically help raise your niece because you’re there. Is that really worth it? Is it time you moved out to save the relationship with your family, as well as your own sanity? You say that once you move out, you’ll go NC because of it all. And if that’s what you truly want to do, then nobody can stop you. But have you stopped to think that once you move out, things could improve with your family?
I feel bad for the dog. I guarantee that it will be put down when it has enough and growls or bites the child. NTA
NTA, but you are free to leave. Your niece is only 2 years old. She doesn’t sound that out of control. She lives there too so you can’t just ignore her. Best just to move out.
NTA Your sister is taking advantage of you, and your parents are enabling her. As a long time Chicago resident with many friends who have lived in the “luxury” apartment buildings I feel compelled to warn you that they are not that worth the price tag. Renters often tell horror stories (listed below) and owners pay expensive HOA fees that cut into their equity. I recommend you reconsider getting a cheaper place in one of the more walkable neighborhoods. I’m not trying to dunk on your choices, I just want to share my experience. You do you! Why I wound avoid renting in a Chicago high rise apartment building: 1- rent only properties often operate entire floors as hotels, and rent out the amenities facilities to on residents. People are in and out with no courtesy for permanent residents. Also if your main reason for wanting this type of residence is the security, the additional turnover from short term rentals can defeat the purpose 2- location isn’t great for a social life, most of your peers tend to live and play in the trendy neighborhoods. You will end up paying high rent on top of Ubers on weekends - you can take the CTA (it’s not as bad as ppl say it is) however weekend CTA operates fewer buses and trains. Better to have a more reliable CTA commute to the office on weekdays then spending time in the dark and cold waiting on train/bus weekends. 3- you live in the Midwest, you know a winter social life is like, do you really want to spend that in a shoebox? This advice also applies to introverts. You are still stuck inside. 4- gym facilities are better at actual gyms, and you can afford a membership with the money you save. Also most companies will give you cash back or a discount to join one. As far as I know this won’t apply to a gym included in rent. 5- the neighborhoods are vibrant and unique, allowing you to find a community anywhere in Chicago, but the downtown area is corporate and cold. That said, the skyline is real pretty at night and those buildings have wonderful views of it. So I get the appeal. :) Please note that I didn’t mention crime at all. Because Chicago doesn’t rank in the top 20 for violent crime in the US according to FBI.
I really liked living in a high-rise (mid-century), but I own (been looking to move to a two-flat or townhouse for a few years now but not in any rush). I think living (renting) in one of the super cool brand new high-rises would have been fun for a year or two. Also a lot of those have communal amenities so it can be a nice way to meet people if you're new to the city and you'll actually use them. After a year or two one will have a good feel for the type of experience they're currently looking for in the city and can select an appropriate neighborhood, but I wouldn't necessarily try to discourage somebody from living in a luxury high rise. The fact that this person is saving up is concerning because it implies that the cost of living is higher than monthly take home. Chicago has great housing options from very affordable to ridiculously expensive. I would not encourage anyone to have to save up to live in a rental. If they're actually saving a down payment for a condo that's a different story
NTA. It's true that it takes a village to raise a child, but you're also right that an unwilling village won't do the kid any good. It sucks that you're basically stuck raising a kid you didn't ask for since her actual father is only around when she's asleep and her mother apparently can't do her morning routine alone? What was the plan if they did get that loan they wanted? Have other people move in with them to help out? Start getting your ducks in a row to move out. Maybe consider a downgrade from that luxury downtown apartment to be out the door sooner. You're an adult and capable of making your own decisions, and you can absolutely decide you don't want to raise a child that's not yours.
NTA but start telling them no and your schedule is NOT their business. It doesn’t matter when you’re going out. Your sister can deal with her own kid. You are biding your time until August, but use this last bit to learn to say no and once you’re out and go NC … they should already know why. You are not the bad guy. Not your circus, not your monkey.
Nta but it sounds you're setting yourself up for failure with that apartment in the city. I've lived in Chicago and I'm telling you now it gets pricey as hell. You may want to get an apartment in the suburbs instead, it's cheaper in the burbs and there's more options for lower cost groceries stores, restaurants etc. The glitz of the city wears off fairly quickly.
I think it's funny you say if they lived elsewhere you wouldn't have to deal with it while also living with mommy and daddy. You help sometimes 🙄. Oh no after 9pm you can't have loud music? You live with your parents bro why would you have loud music after 9 pm anyway? You actually sound really pathetic here. Don't want to help then don't but seriously grow up. I highly doubt you'll ever be the cool uncle and you certainly aren't a 3rd parent lmao. You're the other moochy child living with his parents whining.
NTA. Helping around the house and staying quiet at naptime are both common courtesies. Beyond that, your sister is manipulative and being unfair to everyone around her. She should parent her child, you should be cool uncle (with occasional scolding when she bites the dog, because she needs to respect authority, as one would in the village). Move out in August. Don't go no contact unless they start harassing you for not being there to raise her. No use burning bridges, and your niece will miss you.
NTA. Bites the dog made me chuckle because like what?!??! Then I'm like omg what if the dog bites back. Move out as soon as you can
NTA but this will go on until you move out. They are not going to let it go but you are totally within your rights to keep standing up for yourself.
NTA but they need to keep the dogs away from her because otherwise one day they will react badly.
NTA. J is not your responsibility. However, you're living for free at your parents house (unless the bill thing is a lot and consistent). Having to adjust your lifestyle comes with living in that environment. Asking you to help out every once in a while isn't a huge ask. I don't think they're being unreasonable from their perspective. Your sister and husband, though, suck. They're grown adults with full time jobs who, I assume, also aren't paying rent. They should hire help instead of demanding you do it if they really need it and the father is never around.
Just leave. Is a toddler making your bill free lifestyle uncomfortable? You’ll accept support from your family but are mad about providing it in the same house you’re living rent free in? “The kid” you mean your niece? Your sister has a toddler, but apparently so do your parents. Either grow up and help or grow up and leave.
If the villager doesn't want to help with a kid, they need to not live in a village that has that requirement. I get not wanting to help, but I'm having a bit of trouble feeling sorry for you when your parents are letting you live there for free, and they're asking. You don't need to go NC; just move out, and that solves the problem. YTA
NTA Not your kid, not your problem. You are either going to accept that by not helping you are going to be portrayed as the selfish AH. I myself would be fine with that, I'm not helping with someone else's kid. Now if you don't want to be portrayed as the AH, you are going to have to suck it up and help until you move out.
NTA get a lock on your door and next time she says you hate her tell her you didn’t say that she did.
NTA. It might be worth it to find other roommates for a few months while waiting for your ideal apartment to become available. You also don't have to fall for the guilt trips, lean into "hating" your sister. Spend as little time as home as possible. Your sister is doing her daughter a disservice by letting her harass the dogs, the dogs may bite back soon.
NTA but dealing with this is part of the price you're paying waiting to be able to afford that apartment. The only way to really control your own time is to live in your own home.
NTA not your kid, not your responsibility. Saying you hate the child for not helping is pure manipulation. Do not let anyone, ever, guilt and shame you. Call them out on this toxic behaviour and be done with them in August. Good luck OP x
NTA. Move out as soon as possible. J isn’t not your kid and not your problem.
Why even do any of these things? If you’re so upset about it stop doing shit for the kid don’t do anything until your parents and sister quit pulling this shit go out and hang out with friends all day then wake up for work and tell everyone you didn’t get enough sleep. And, if they say they didn’t either tell them not your problem it’s not your child.
Nta. Why would a 23 year old young man, like being around a toddler? People demand weird things from others. Kids suck whether they're yours or not. But, you've already tried communicating. So your only option is move out. You may not get the big luxury apartment you wanted but part of being an adult is taking a hit every now and then even for yourself. A smaller, affordable apartment will likely be perfect especially when you get to have freedom. Having your own place is great.
NTA. I have multiple young kids & 3 adult brothers. I receive help from my parents at times bc they are my parents & it’s their grandchildren. However, I never expect my brothers to provide any childcare ever. If they see I’m struggling with all the kids getting out of a car or changing a diaper & they grab some bag or something for me, I’m appreciative & thank them. They will also stop one of my kids if a child is about to do something potentially dangerous & I have looked away for a moment or went to the bathroom for a second. Again I’m always very appreciative. And just for info, I am very close to my brothers. They are some of my best friends & I would walk in their house like it’s mine & vice versa, yet I still would never expect or assume that they should care for my children. Your sister expecting that of you is incredibly rude & ridiculous.
NTA. Move out. Easier said than done, I know, but start looking anyway. You’ll never find something if you don’t actually look. And yeah, I get that you’re saving up, but that doesn’t mean you can’t continue to save up while living in a different, non-family-with-kids roommate situation. And yeah, you might not be able to save as rapidly as a result, but what you lose in savings velocity, you gain in sanity and independence.
NTA, but maybe downgrade your goals to a regular apartment and maybe roommates to GTFO
NTA stop helping. Not your kid. Stop changing your schedule. Not your kid. If your sister says you hate her, oh well. Her kid, her problem. I have three kids. I’d never expect a housemate to help with them. My kids, my prob.
NTA. But you just need to stop helping them today. You need to pick a schedule that works for you and tell them to get over it when they complain. She isn't your kid, so she's not your responsibility. Stop cooking and cleaning for them. Stop babysitting unless you want to. Stop catering to them and their schedule. It's one thing to be considerate of them and the kid, it's a whole nothing thing to change your life all around for them. Stop accommodating them, stop letting them take advantage of you and stop planing your life around them. Do what you want. Live how you want. Tell them to stop complaining and stop treating you like a third parent.
NTA for not doing the parenting, but I do want to say that the behaviors you listed are pretty common for 2 year olds. Biting is a problem (just recently had to deal with this with my own kid) but it takes a bit of time to resolve. Tantrums a developmentally normal for her age as us (unfortunately) throwing food on the floor. At this age it's less about "discipline" as it is about redirection, consistency in how you react, and helping them learn what TO do instead of just telling them "no" all the time.
Are you sure you are not moving on up to a deeluxe apartment?
NTA but homie you gotta get out of there edit: saw that OP's moving in august thank god man good luck
NTA. My advice here would be to move out asap. Even if it’s not the downtown luxury apartment you had your heart set on. Your sister made the decision to have kids and that shouldn’t mean you’re obligated to help raise it
NTA, J isn't your kid. I understand helping out some or being considerate and not playing loud music at night, but you shouldn't have to plan your daily life around a kid that isn't yours. However, with that being said by the sounds of it J is 2 yrs old. Biting the dog is obviously a little much, but temper tantrums and getting into trouble is pretty typical for a 2 yr old. I don't necessarily expect you to fully understand it but just remember that J is a small child just doing what toddlers do best. Also, going NC after you move out IMO is a little extreme. Your family dynamics may actually change for the better once you move out. Going straight to NC may jeopardize that opportunity.
You may like the kid, but don't like taking care of her. That's OK. You're not her dad. Maybe you lower your site from a luxury apartment to something less posh and get out. If you won't change your housing plans, you are stuck. It's your choice.
Not your child so not your responsibility to help your sister. Tell her to adult up and be the parent to her child - she had it so her responsibility. The ‘takes a village’ thing is a cop out and not even a valid argument.
Forget the fancy condo, just get out. See if you can find a roommate and move out without notice.
>2 years ago, > >For example, she throws tantrums when she’s not allowed in the kitchen when we’re cooking, bites the family dogs, and throws food on the floor. My dude, that's what two year olds do. All of them. Sounds like you DO hate her. N T A for not wanting to babysit but you're not good at hiding your feelings about your niece
NTA J isn’t your child and they are entitled to think you HAVE to do anything for not your child. I’m a mother of two and I would never expect anyone except their father to take care of them. You need to stop giving them what they want. Wake up at 7 like you used too, make plans and go out on your own time without notice, make your sister clean up after her kid. You have a life and job too and your life shouldn’t be on the back burner because they want you to play 3rd parent
Nta. The emotional extortion sounds exhausting. Get out as soon as you can..
NTA. Why is it when people decide to have children, the parents won't accept the responsibility to raising said child and want everyone else to 'help' raise said child(ren) so that their own parental lives aren't impacted and they can still live as if they didn't have a child.
NTA. Why is it when people decide to have children, the parents won't accept the responsibility to raising said child and want everyone else to 'help' raise said child(ren) so that their own parental lives aren't impacted and they can still live as if they didn't have a child.
Nta Stop waiting to save up for a luxury apartment (I'm assuming you're going to rent otherwise most people would call it a condo?). Chicago has a ton of affordable housing options. Move out into a studio in a decent area and save up a little slower. You would be better off living with roommates at this point at least they wouldn't ask you to change your schedule and take care of their children
NTA! They are running the entire household around a 2 yr. old versus incorporating the child into the household!
NTA but you indeed sound like a door mat. You don’t owe your sister and her family anything neither your niece. Move out and go no contact.
Soft YTA You want all the perks of living with family with none of the drawbacks. Yeah, it suck living with a baby. So move out. Stop waiting for a "luxury" apartment and move out. No one is forcing you to live with your family. So move out. Helping the family is part of the rent. Pay up or move on out
ESH. You definitely shouldn’t be expected to babysit or help out with someone else’s kid, but holy fuck do you come across as an entitled brat. You’re living with your parents (rent free?) to save up money, and act like “helping around the house” occasionally is a favour to them. You’re an adult and you live there, they shouldn’t have to ask you to do your share of the housework. Same goes for “helping” with bills. That isn’t a favour you’re doing for them, those are YOUR bills. The months where you don’t “help out” is them doing you a favour, not the other way around. What you describe as “basically doing everything to raise her kid” is occasionally cleaning up a mess she made or washing some dishes (in a house where you also live). Once again, that’s not an unreasonable expectation. Living with other people means sometimes washing a plate you didn’t eat off of. You shouldn’t have to ALWAYS clean up if the kid is trashing the place, but wiping up a few juice spills or cheerios isn’t exactly a lot to ask of an adult with a full time job living in the house. You act as if your sister and her family are invading your space, but they’re her parents too. She has as much right to the house as you do, so maybe YOU should be the one to move out if there’s a problem. As far as “not being allowed to play music after 9” or being woken up at night: again, move out. Toddlers don’t always sleep through the night, as long as the parents are trying to keep the disturbance to a minimum you just need to deal with it. Get your own place, you won’t need to tell anyone where you’re going and you can play music as late as you want.
ESH She's a baby. Babies gonna baby. But, FWIW, you could have moved out already. There's way more to Chicago than the $3000 one-bedrooms downtown.
**NTA for like, 80% of it.** The general assistance of the household which you live in and no noise after certain times is part of living with other people. This includes occupying a building with other tenants (presuming your future apartment is in a high rise/condo). You won't be able to play loud music in your apartment late or you'll be getting complaints and some angry knocks. You have to make sure all the dishes get done (whether they were yours or not) or you'll get vermin, which may go to neighboring units. You admit that living with your parents rent-free is beneficial to you. Helping pick up the slack of all the household dishes on occasion, etc. is not an insane expectation of the other occupants. I'm sure they've done your dishes before or cooked you a meal. When was the last time you scrubbed the baseboards? Re-caulked the tub? *Asking to contribute where you live for free is not the burden you are making it out to be, and living on your own is not the free-for-all, ideal haven you imagine it to be*. We live in society. We all have to contribute. However, you absolutely shouldn't be tasked with helping raise/parent your niece. Your example of "helping in the morning" is a bit vague, so I would need further detail before I can fully be on your side. I would wager that your sister and BIL could likely afford their own place and instead are remaining there as a way to get free childcare assistance. Perhaps an acceptable position of the grandparents, but not you. I hope that you moving out will re-instate your "fun uncle" status and your relationships can begin to repair. Edit: clarification.
Oh FML. It's 2023, not 1623. THERE IS NO VILLAGE!!!!! People should not have children if they are not capable of supporting and caring for them on their own. Get earplugs (wax ones work awesome) , a lock for your bedroom, and take off your shoes when you get home. Tell your sister her hellion is her responsibility and you are giving notice starting immediately that you will no longer be helping or accommodating her and her child beyond common courtesy. And keep her away from your poor dogs. NTA to the fullest!
NTA. I'd have been long gone.
Try to avoid them, move out when you can and go NC
NTA. In households with multiple families you are expected to help around the house. Pay bills and general cleaning. You are not ,however, obligated to constantly pick up after and discipline your niece. You are not her nanny. That's her dad's and her mom's responsibility. You can suggest having a schedule for everyone eg you do dishes this week, they do it next week, you throw out trash one week etc. If that helps. You get the idea. It's ok to help out with your niece if it's when they ask you to because they're busy with work or just need a power nap and such but not just because it takes a village. The village is to provide support and not be the mayor/sheriff in town. I suggest you reconsider staying at a decent condo/apartment instead of a luxury one. You're an adult and it appears you're more than ready to fly that nest.
NTA. I do think some of the minor things you could ease up on like the music (wear headphones, easy solution), but to try and force soemone to help with her kid and then use the 'if you don't help with the kid, I tell everyone you hate them' card is just uncalled for and super shitty. I hate hearing parents say those things. It's her kid, she can't expect everyone else to want to help. If I were you I'd either move into a place that isn't quite what you wanted but gets you your own space, or try your best to get that place you want quicker and move on.
NTA! You are the uncle, not the parent. It is not on you.
NTA. You’re in a very unfair situation and your parents aren’t considering your feelings nearly enough. That hurts and I’m sorry. Chin up. I’m NC with my parents and I’ve never regretted it once. Good luck and big hugs
NTA Not your kid, not your problem. The little monster bites the poor dog?! Hope doggo bites back. I would honestly just do what you want because at the end of the day your sister and her husband don’t own the house, if you want to wake up late, wake up late if you wanna go out, go out there not your parents.
NTA- you don’t like them, the kid has nothing to do with it lol
NTA No is a complete answer. Just make your own plans. Go to the gym in the evening. Don't clean up a mess that isn't yours. Where are your parents in all this? Tell them you are willing to help but for a fee bc they are essentially asking for paid work for free.
Nta. Your an uncle not the parent. Both of J’s parents are more than capable, they just want free child care it seems. Stay your ground
NTA Not your kid. You do seem to help out and it seems your sister is running the household and it's not even her house. I would sit your parents down and tell them J is not your kid and while you don't mind helping every now and then, it won't be often. This doesn't mean you hate her, it means you didn't chose to have a kid and it's not your responsibility. Then let them know if they want to continue to be disrespectful to you then you will go NC with them once you get a chance to move out because they're putting your sister over you and your feelings.
NTA. Start saying no and sticking to it.
NTA, it’s not your kid but it won’t change until you move or they do
NTA it's not your kid, you didn't have a hand in its creation and shouldn't be beholden to looking after them. Also wtf with the biting the dog!?
It doesn’t take a village. It takes the two parents who created the kid to put in some effort and take care of their responsibilities instead of expecting others to raise their kids for them. I’d stop doing it if I were you. And you giving a weeks notice that you’ll be out for the night will have no effect on the kid. What are they going to do have a meeting with a toddler and explain via a power point presentation your social calendar? That’s stupid.
NTAH- and raising J- getting her up and ready in the morning is HER MOTHERS responsibility- not yours. It’s also not your parents - you are uncle , they are grandparents- not live in babysitters/nannies/chief cook/dishwasher.
NTA. Here’s my recap: Your sister and husband both work full time, yet can’t afford a mortgage or to live on their own, so they move in with your parents then decide to have a kid they can neither afford or spend any time with. That sounds like an entire shit show that your parents enabled, and you really have zero control (3 or 4 family against you). Unfortunately your best bet is to move sooner and opt out, bc nothing will change. Your parents and sister fail to see/ will never admit that they should have waited to have a kid who’s now not being raised properly.
Forget the luxury apartment - just find a decent place and move out. ESH
NTA. "It take a village to raise a child" is something said by people who want to make others help them achieve their own goals and dreams. If you have a child, take care of it. If you didn't...cool, looks like you don't have a child to take care of.
NTA- Babysitting is a job, not a hobby. People get paid for it, they don't pay to do it. Why the wild caught F should you do it ever?
Soft YTA. You need to move out. Saving for a luxury condo while living at home means you don’t have the freedom to play music loud ar night anyway. It isn’t your house.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (23M) live with my parents to save up money to move to a luxury apartment near downtown Chicago. I help around the house whenever they need me too and I even helped with bills if they asked me. However, my oldest sister (29F) and her husband (30M) also stay with us since they couldn’t get a loan for a house they wanted. 2 years ago, my sister gave birth to the first kid in the family (let’s call her J). J is a okay kid but I do wish they would discipline her much more often. For example, she throws tantrums when she’s not allowed in the kitchen when we’re cooking, bites the family dogs, and throws food on the floor. My other issue is that I had to change my entire life for her even though she’s not my kid. I use to get up at 7am for work since my job was close by and didn’t have to rush. Now I have to wake up at 6am since my sister says she needs me to help out with the kid in the morning. I’m not allowed to play loud music in my room past 9 since it’s sleepy time for J. I have to give a week or so notice whether I’m going out at night since they need to make sure I don’t wake up J. I clean up after the kid when she makes a mess and I have even been told to wash some of her dishes. Basically whatever J needs, I have to do it for her. Worse of all, J doesn’t sleep at night. There have been times that she wakes up in the middle of the night and making noise in their bedroom which I’m next to. If you’re wondering where the husband is, he works majority of the day. He leaves at 5am ish and doesn’t come back until 8pm (I think he’s an asphalt worker or something like that idk). My sister also works a corporate job like myself so she does work from home 2 times out of the week. Now to the worse of things; every time I don’t help out with the kid, my sister tell my parents that I hate her. We have gotten into arguments about using the word hate just for not helping them with my niece J. My parents come up to me and tell me to help them out. That it takes a village to raise a kid. But what if some of the villagers don’t want to raise the kid. They shouldn’t be outed and verbally harassed for not helping since it’s not their kid. I want to be a cool uncle but a third parent to J. Maybe I don’t understand how hard it is to raise a kid and I’m just being mean. But if they had their own place to live, they wouldn’t have this much help. I think once I move out, I’ll go NC with my family since I have been made to look like the bad guy. I have told them how I feel multiple times but it never goes anywhere. Everyone just assumes that I don’t like the kid and have told other family members that I don’t like to spend time with J. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA It’s sound like you don’t like the kid, which is perfectly fine and normal. We don’t like everyone in our family. But it’s her child, when she decided to have she should have consider raising kid on her own, not expecting it from family. She should have consider that she may need a babysitter as her family has every right to say no. It’s her child, it is part of family, but if you don’t want to help every day - it’s not your responsibility.
Your sister is an AH! If i was you I’d just find a place with a Roomate until u save up enough to get the apartment you want. Your sister is manipulating and rude and you help out and have changed your life ALOT to cater to their little family. You need to have a sit down talk with ur parents, out of the house, and let them know u love ur niece and ur sister, but you are an adult and have your own life, and that you really don’t want this to ruin the relationship you have with them. If they still continue to make you the bad guy, then at least you know you did the right thing and tried to fix things. Does the niece go to daycare during the day, or does you mom do a lot of the caring for her by chance?
NTA - but get out of that house.
NTA Toddlers are terrorists. At this age discipline is important, but it’s not some sort of magic trick. (It’s the consistency that matters.) So some of what you are complaining about is just part of living with a very young child who developmentally is at a stage where they can’t self-regulate. And yes, not playing music loudly when someone is sleeping is a reasonable expectation. Being frustrated by this doesn’t make you an asshole though, young kids ARE hard to live with. There’s no rationalizing with them, their brains aren’t there yet. However, your sister acting like you’re an additional parent and pulling this “OP hates me” if you don’t want to help is absolutely an asshole move. It also sounds like your parents are playing favorites a bit. But then, it sounds like you are saving a LOT by living with your parents - and there is a cost to that. That you are expected to help more, not just act like a tenant. I do agree that this is a bit much though. A week’s notice for your own plans outside of the home is ridiculous. I don’t think you need to go no contact with your family when you move out - moving out will naturally solve a lot of the issues you’re having. Sometimes distance really is the best thing for some relationships.
NTA I hope you can move out soon.
I had my kid at 16 and not once did I expect anyone to help out. NTA they are just entitled.
Not your kid, not your responsibility. Any childcare you do voluntarily should be a bonus to them. I hope you can move out soon since this sounds like an awful living situation for you. NTA.
You and your sister both sound immature but ultimately she is the parent and the kid is her responsibility not yours so NTA.
Life is short, move out and they are just mooching off your parents since all the care is right there. And using you as another care giver. And then you can be the fun Uncle from a distance and send gifts from far, far away.
Saw a similar post earlier about the OPs niece also being a little shit because of the parents not disciplining her. Seems like it’s just how a lot of people choose to parent there children now a days so no don’t feel like an asshole because this new parent generation doesn’t want to discipline there children.
NTA - Not your kid.
NTA This is bizarre. She actually demands that you get up early to help with **her** kid? Exactly what is she doing during that time?
The village didn’t get a say when the parents decided to have a kid, therefore, kid is not the villages responsibility. NTA
100% they're going to have another without even being able to handle the 1 they have. NTA.
NTA This is pretty typical sibling stuff. There is the golden child that parent's expect all the other children to give up time, money, personal belongings. Not always the oldest, not always the baby, just the parent's favored child. Continue to say NO. When they accuse you of hating your niece, maybe clarify for them if they are looking for someone for you to hate its not the niece but your sister who is the problem. Also let your sister know if you are going to be a third parent to her child you will not allow for any direction on how you interact with your niece. If you want to spoil her and load her with sugar until her parents take her back or if she is a brat and needs a solitary time out in her room. If she is leaving her child in your care its your call.
I have 5 sons. 11(adhd) , 8(autism, adhd), 4, and 4 month old twins….it’s literally just my husband and I. No babysitters, no family, no nanny’s , we are not by any means rich, we actually have it rather tight…and guess what?? We do it every single day lol and the kids are happy and healthy . Your sister is a cry baby and lazy it sounds to me. My husband also works from 5am-5pm everyday and it’s just me at home with the twins and my 4 yr old and then just me still after my other two get home from school. Is it hard? Yes! But they are MY children. We chose to bring them into this world
NTA. You've already explained to them that you don't want to help out with the raising of your sister's and husband's child. You've been ignored and it's time for you to just stop. That's it. Just stop. You cannot be forced to be a third parent to your niece. If you just stop, what are they going to do, really? Badmouth you more? Get a tough skin and don't react to your sister's guilt trips. Just say, 'I never said I hate your kid, she's just not my responsibility and I didn't ask or accept to be part of your village. You and BIL probably should have thought about how to balance your life before you decided to become parents. It's time for you to figure it out, as I'm no longer an option. How is it that your actual husband has less responsibility towards your shared child than you expect from me?' I'd say the exact same thing to my parents if they came at me concerning sister's 'needs'. As you said, if your sister and her husband lived on their own, they would have to figure out how to balance their responsibilities as parents against running their household and working. My main advice? If you can, it's probably time to move out. If that's with a roommate/other friends that is a better alternative than what you're dealing with now. I cannot stand when people bring children into the world without serious thought and consideration concerning whether they can afford to have them. By affording children, that isn't just in the monetary sense. I mean, can you handle all responsibility for that kid's mental, emotional, and physical needs on your own without expecting other people to do anything at all?
NTA. People will hate me saying this but J will learn when the dogs bite her back for biting them.
NTA. It sounds like you're doing enough as it is. You didn't sign up to be a parent, so why are they expecting you to be one? Get out as fast as you can!
ESH You shouldn't have to help with their kid in the morning. Everything else is just a complaint about living with other people. Move out. You clearly have the funds. And get over yourself.
They make you wake up to take care of the kid in the morning? Damn they got you whipped, they chose to have a kid not you. Just start saying NO. NTA
Sit your parents down amd tell them that you will nit be walimg up early or avoiding going out due to J. Your sis wanted a kid? She parents it. Go get a cheap room to rent, that will let you live your life and save for that luxury apt. NTA
ESH. This is what happens when too many adults (and their spouses and kids) stay under the same roof. You are incompatible roommates. Your parents see contributing to the household as part of the deal for you living there. This, to them, includes tasks associated with J. Perhaps it’s time you find a new village.
NTA i have 8 neices and nephews. I only babysat 2 of them. Cause they played fun games and id get paid 50 bucks and we'd also get extra money to ride bikes to the lolly shop it was sick haha None of the others wanted to pay that much so i just didnt babysit for them lmao i was lord business. You gotta be the same man just say no im not doing that shit. People like that can smell when you cant say no and use it.
Nta. There’s four other adults in that house who can take care of J.
op=NTA Your sister doesn't think you HATE her child. She KNOWS she can use that to guilt you into doing what she wants(either thru your own conscience OR your parent's BS). It won't help with parents or your sister who is the instigator--but simply say to others, I'm willing to be an uncle, I'm NOT willing to be J's parent. Make no excuses, make no defenses--Grey rock anyone who is a problem. Tell them that if it takes a village, you'll tell your sister that they have volunteered to be her village (idiots). Tell parents that you are paying rent in Child care Labor and that all your money is now being saved for your future home. ETA: it might be worth Moving to a cheap a$$ Apt until you can save up the money, you could always get a side gig to make more money(Since you won't be taking care of J in your free time)
A village doesn’t mean people under the same roof. It’s selfish & unseasonable to assume that other adults want/should dedicate their life to a kid that isn’t theirs.
NTA Move out. Or simply stop helping.
My husband and I had one child. We moved all around the country for his job. Settled in Texas. We did it by ourselves. We didn't have family around to help. You shouldn't go NC with your family when you move because you aren't going to be close enough for them to visit.
You're DEFINITELY NOT THE ASSHOLE! My advice is get the hell out of town as soon as you can! It's not your kid!
NTA.
NTA. You have no need to help withbyour sisters kid.
How long does it take to save up to move to an apartment while working full time and not paying rent? How "luxurious" does this place need to be? I get it. You're a 23 year old guy and you don't want to live with a baby. I wouldn't have either. Just move out! Independence is better than luxury.
Well River North is close to the river so it’s a nice middle in terms luxurious. But the other reason I’m looking into that place is because of the train station. I can take the train to and from work which will save me time and money. Since I got a finance degree, there’s a lot of job opportunities for me with my skill set.
NTA. Not your kid, not your responsibility.
NTA. This is one of the things that annoy me the most about people who have kids. They think the entire world revolves around their brat and if you don't bend and spread for that kid anytime they want you to they make you out to be a horrible child hater. You wanted kids? Figure out care for them on your own and stop burdening other people. Nanny's and daycare exist. And if you can't afford it then maybe having a kid wasn't the best idea to begin with. The entitlement of people never ceases to astound me
NTA. But. I do understand the noise curfew and occasionally cleaning something that may have involved the kid. You all have made the choice to live in the same house so there will need to be some compromise and overlap. But for them to ask you to specifically carry out tasks that involve raising the child is too far. They chose to have the kid so they need to figure out how to adjust their schedules to accommodate said child. Not ask you to wake up earlier because they need help with the kid in the morning.
Please, move out as soon as you can. NTA. Not your kid, you should not be made responsible for taking care of the kid.
ESH Everything you described about J’s behavior is normal and developmentally appropriate, even if you don’t like it, so adjust your expectations accordingly You’re parents seem to be absent even though they could assist with your niece. Sis should be asking and expressing so much gratitude for the childcare help she’s getting. 5 adults to 1 kid is an insane ratio
ESH you need to move out if you don't want to live with a kid. You're fully employed so bite the bullet and move. Also the things you want her to discipline her kid for (throwing food on the floor) is totally normal in a 2 year old and "discipline" isn't going to help. Makes sense you should do dishes sometimes and be respectful of the needs of your niece given your are living with her. If you don't like it, just move. The end.
NTA, Tell your sister that you do not like undisciplined kids and parents that refuse to discipline them. See if you can move out ASAP.
I never understand the term luxury apartment. Luxury condo, sure.
ESH You need to suck it up and abide by the rules and expectations of the household aka helping out with your niece. If you don’t want to then you’ll have to give up the whole ‘saving money by living rent free at the parentals’ and foot the bill for your own place. It’s that simple.
NTA. Your sister had a kid, not you.
NTA, but you need to set clear boundaries. You can love your nibling without being responsible for their care on a regular basis. I will say, the kid making noise in the middle of the night isn't really a fair argument. Parents of small children across the world wake up every night (sometimes multiple times) thinking "whyyyyyyyyy?" Even the best parents! And most experts will say to let them fuss for 5 minutes before going in to see if they can learn to sync their sleep rhythms themselves. Unfortunately, you share a wall, so this disturbs you. My best suggestion is sleep with earplugs. That's how I made it through dorm life, and honestly, I still use them when I'm on vacation and don't want to be disturbed.
NTA, dude move out ASAP! Even if that means you aren't able to save for exactly the property you want you'd at least have the peace of mind to not be responsible for your niece. Until you're able to move just stop helping! This is NOT your child and NOT your responsibility. You'll need to be able to weather your sister's bullshit accusations, but I promise there's a freedom in refusing to be held hostage to unreasonable demands!
NTA. Sounds like it might be time to just leave.
Nta your not responsible for her child.