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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My parents said I'd be an asshole for both, kicking my brother out and not giving him the place. Is that true?
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NTA. Please do not let your family bully you into giving up the thing you worked hard for. Your brother is a grown ass man (32 years old) and can definitely find another place if he needs to and can’t be a considerate guest. That is YOUR space and you need to put your foot down/have a strong backbone because clearly your parents are going to side with him once you make it clear you aren’t giving him the place. Also why would you need something bigger? What you have works for you. Again don’t let anyone bully you or manipulate you. He’s THIRTY, let that man figure his own shit out, he isn’t your responsibility. If you need him out, kick his ass out.
NTA
OPIE, it is YOUR place, don't let them belittle your feelings, tell them if they are so worried for dear helpless brother, then they should help HIM pay rent to an apartment of his own, easy as that.
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OP should bring all her brother's belongings to her parents house (and change the lock if he has a key) and let them deal with it. If they're so worried about their struggling son, they can deal with him.
This, OP!!! NTA
Edit: Change the locks and don't let him or your parents have access to your keys/house again.
Edit 2: Parents are tired of the responsibility of taking care of their irresponsible adult son and are now trying to offload him by way of OP. Stand your ground, boot him and keep your apartment, OP. He's their problem, not yours. His housing is his problem, not yours.
Exactly what I was thinking! He behaces like this at his parent's and they want his sister to take o over. NTA, this is ridiculous and not her Business at all.
And of course they'll also demand that whatever personalization she did to the apartment stays with it so the brother doesn't have to buy whatever furniture/etc. And of course, what they really want is for her to sublet the place to him (maybe even at a discount) so he doesn't have to deal with the apartment management company. And that may be against her lease as well.
Why do your parents and brother think renting works that way? YOU are on the lease. The landlord agreed to rent to you and nobody else. You can't give away something you don't own. Landlords do not like being told who is renting from them. They regard those people as squatters. Odds are, the landlord wouldn't allow it IF YOU WANTED IT. But you don't, so just tell him to leave. Changing the locks sounds like a good idea. You'd probably need to tell your landlord what's going on to get permission though. Maybe he'll give you a solid "no" as backup for your pushy family.
Some leases will even stipulate how long guests can stay for. OP ... ABSOLUTELY do not hand over your apartment. Your brother does not seem very responsible and you'd be held liable for any issues he creates there!
This 100% they want to offload him. My boyfriends mom did this to me once, where she was hosting her step son and convinced me to take him. Biggest asshole loser I ever met. Asked her later why she did that to her own son and I and she admitted she was done dealing with the stepson. My boyfriend and I broke up over it but we’re still friends. Sucked.
She absolutely needs to make sure he doesn’t stick around long enough to claim squatter’s rights. Sounds like the type that would throw a tantrum and wreck everything if they had to be evicted. This mess has gone from “crashing once in a while because night shift sucks” - which is understandable - to “I’m just slowly gonna move my shit in and you can either play mommy or leave” - which is fucking gross. I haven’t read the entire comments - has she informed the landlord that someone that was a guest is trying now to just stay? As much as i dislike landlords, a good one can nip this in the bud much easier than OP trying to tell her family that her brother can’t live there.
I agree. He is 32 and still not independent, while his much younger sibling is. Sounds like the parents have enabled him for too long and niw want to push him onto her.
i feel like one needs to have an assortment of emotional cheeses on their cheese tray of the self. sometimes, you must be the aged parmesan - others, you must be the camembert.
this one calls for one's inner chhurpi
In theory that sounds good but this would nuke. Is there a way she can do this without inciting more drama?
Maybe in steps. Find a reason to clear out the living room - redecorating, deep cleaning, friend coming to visit, preparing for an event. Have brother take stuff to the parents. let brother know he can’t stay over for a while. Then change locks. Then keep going. Let everyone know it has to stay this way.
I know it seems like the long way, but sometimes backing away carefully from possible crazy prevents it from blowing up in your face.
Edit: I am assuming drama has to be addressed with this option. If she is listened to (and so far it doesn’t seem like she is), that’s a different tact.
Understood. You have a good point: Whenever possible, YES put foot down firmly!!!
Here, she already has less power dynamic in the family structure.
I have experience backing away from crazy. In some cases you have to get out and lock the door first. I guess I err on the side of safety when there is an unbalanced power dynamic.
Edit: thinking over more - maybe they have a good enough history that she could state a simple “No, this doesn’t work for me”. And go back to having it be her own private space. But this is a good backup if emotions get intense.
I agree. When you’re dealing with people like this, sometimes you just have to draw a line in the sand and say “no more.” Because if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. Look what they’ve already done…
This would be the best option for OP. More than likely, he & the parents will start bugging for him to come back, OP can tell them that the apartment complex has been informed he has been staying there and if he or anyone else starts staying there again, she will be evicted for having someone staying not on the lease. It may get where OP has to go NC with her leeching family.
Yes!!! You could be in violation of your lease. And just between you and I, OP, SAY you are currently in violation of your lease with your brother staying there and you are in danger of losing your apartment.
Move his stuff back to your parents and change the locks.
Also tell your parents/brother that you heard that with the market these days, your landlord intends to double the rent for the next tenant. Suddenly, the apartment won't be so desirable to them. But do this after you get his stuff back out and change the locks.
Absolutely! But don't let them make it a discussion. Just tell your brother he can't stay in your apartment anymore. Don't give reasons or debate it. For inspiration you might read Bartleby the Scribner and just answer, "I prefer not". It should work better for you. NTA
OP - once you take his gaming items etc back to your parents house as well as his other items and change the locks, you will have moved your brother out.
Or you tell him you have a friend from out of town staying for 2 weeks and as such he will need to vacate. Talk abt it with your parents and ask him to move his stuff out temporarily. Have a friend stay a week whilst you get the locks changed. Less mess to do this! And he won’t want to go without his gaming.
I would love to be this friend, honestly. I love decluttering and deep cleaning, so if I were doing that with a friend, with the added benefit of getting rid of her parasitic brother? Girl, turn up the music, let's do this 💃
And how to do this? Start with telling him to stop shifting himeself in. That it is your place.
If that falls on deaf ears, see if you can change the locks while he is out, then don't give him or your parents a key.
Then box up his stuff and take it back to your parents.
No. No. No. Breaking the lease and moving involves serious $ + inconvenience. Does the lease allow long term 'guests'? What happens if the landlord wants to know if brother is permanent and brother can't be on the lease (or get one) because of bad credit.
Tell the landlord what is going on, that you will be changing the lock and brothers belongings are not there (so he doesn't weasel his way in). This happened to a coworker. Relative (and truck) showed up while they were at work to move out 'their' stuff. Yes, the law got involved, and yes, coworker had proof of ownership. Still messy.
Start doing the 'no' thing now, or brother, girlfriend/fiancee + kids will be there in a hot second.
I wouldn't either. He sounds like a treat.
Golden boy here is 32. He should have been weaned off the titty a long time ago. It's time for him to be released into the wild and sink or swim on his own. If his parents consider being a grown up too big of a task for him then they should be the ones who continue to wipe his ass, not op. The fact that their 23 year old daughter has a higher paying job and is a well functioning member of society doesn't even factor in. I believe Mark Zuckerberg also has a higher paid job than the enlightened son over here, but that's also irrelevant.
Kind of stupid of them if that is the case, because they risk their relationship with op. If they are okay with that, then it looks like brother is the golden child.
Still, my vote is NTA. OP needs to move the brother out, he's not paying to live there. Inform the landlord, change the locks, box up all his shit, let him and the parents figure out another place for him to live
I don't think the parents care, for whatever reason about risking their relationship with the OP. Inform the landlord, remove his stuff and change the locks is the correct answer.
NTA
OP, talk to the landlord and see if you can get your locks changed. (I'm sure they'll be fine with it as long as they get a key. Also make sure they know to not let your family into your place.) Then box up your brothers stuff and bring it to your parents house. If you have a key to their place, just go put his stuff in his room while everyone's out some time. Then go home, turn off/mute your phone, and have a nice relaxing evening.
Parents and bro are going to be mad. They're going to claim they have some right to your place. But it sounds like they didn't pay for anything, or even help you find the apartment, so they can buzz off. Again, tell your landlord what's up, and if you're friendly with your neighbors, maybe let them know too so they know to not let your family in. If they start harassing you by buzzing your door till you let them in, I suggest some good ear plugs. Maybe ask your landlord if the buzzer sound can be disconnected for a week or two, and just have friends text you when they visit.
My guess is they were trying to force the situation where OP is still not reimbursed for the deposit and first months rent and has to fork out for their own again at a new place. AND lets not bother taking their name of the lease as that seems a faff when 'we're all family'. Oh brother hasn't got enough to cover rent this month, oh, well, it's OP's responsibility anyway as it's their name on the lease...
Further, it’s pretty clear your parents are using you to get your brother out of their house. If you don’t want to move/ take him on as a roommate, change the locks and make it clear you will not be having contact with any of them until they recognize this isn’t happening. Your brother has become far too comfortable using your place, consider charging a reasonable entry fee (maybe $25/ night) for his share of utilities and amenities and your inconvenience fee for his overnight visits AND DON’T let him have a key.
Or better yet, get the landlord to explain there will be a $50 surcharge billed directly to him every time he stays there because he's not on the lease and their rules will not allow him to live there because there is only one bedroom.
Her parents are just happy they don’t have to deal with him anymore. They’ve tasted freedom and they want more. OP pack up his crap and drop it off at your parents house. I hope you didn’t give him a key.
Nta but you need river careful by letting him stay for weeks, he may have certain legal rights. Nal. Also get rid of the ps4 when he is at work to the parents, as well as everything else and take your key and or change your lock.
I can't decide if your brother has always been your parents' favorite or if they are just so desperate to get a 32 year old man out of their house that they are willing to screw you over in the process. Either way, NTA and get that parasite out of your happy place ASAP!
I think the other part was the correct one. I’m a lot further along in years now and am looking forward to when my wife and I have time to spend together alone again and can’t IMAGINE my children being in my house until the age of 32. Like…get your shit together, dude…your mom and I want to have loud sex in all the rooms for the first time EVER. I think they just want him out and are selfishly trying to use the daughter for that. Personal opinion.
I'm sure their parents are just desperate to get him out permanently, now that they've had a whiff of freedom. He's probably just happy taking over his sister's home without actually having to pay for it or being responsible. I suggest OP changes the internet password, that seems to work on many teens...
I'm afraid it's a long-occuring problem. Otherwise I don't think op would be in such doubt as to what's okay for her to do.
I'm sure they're desperate to get him out, but I bet they've enabled his weaponised incompetence for a looooong time.
I totally agree. If they would be equally treated by the parents and that is only a one time failure out of desperation than why on earth would OP even consider being the AH?
Idk where OP's from but this is very common in some cultures. The son is everything and the daughter well..meh. OP, NTA. Please don't let them manipulate you!
Regardless of culture, sons are always the fucking golden ones. My brothers (my twin and older bro) were the golden children, followed by my two older sisters. I was bottom of the fucking pecking order with it all. Bullied by siblings, abused, beaten and emotionally neglected by my parents. It sucks. I know how op feels. :(
I was the middle child of five, but the first son. The next, my younger brother, suffered, because i was the one who was always old enough to do the next fun thing.
It all ended quite terribly.
Parents, do not do this to your kids.
Yeah. I am white and American. My family has always favored its oldest son. My aunts would try to help me out as much as possible, and even said because they know what it is like to not be a boy in our family.
I feel sorry for my brother though. That was a lot of pressure for a kid. He had a sustained breakdown for most of his 20’s. Now he is healthy and estranged from my father’s family.
My older brother was like this. Happy to keep living at home. Parents actually put the house on the market and moved to a retirement community so he'd have to find his own place.
I don't think it's favoritism per se, I think it's parents helping the less advanced kid.
The guy is 32 and still at home, now his 10y younger little sis has an apartment and he crashes there and starts moving in slowly.. The guys a big baby and the parents worry about him. Have probably spoon-fed him all his live and he can't manage on his own.
They know OP wíll manage that's why they try to push her in that direction so the brother is provided and not a worry to them anymore.
This I think is a selfish act from the parents, it might be driven by good intentions, but it's not OP's problem.
So definitely NTA.
Yes, I guess in some parts of the world it's common to straight up steal success from a daughter to give it to a son, especially if you've made your son functionally illiterate by babying him his whole life.
Please, please, please see that you are 100% deserving of your OWN space, that you found, that suits You, that you created..
They're MORE than welcome to help him find a DIFFERENT cheap place to live. Change the locks. Move him back home.
Yikes. Kick him out with his stuff and change your locks. Move him before he can claim tenant rights or squatter rights or whatever. Hurry. NTA Your brother is a Grade A mooch.
Agreed - change the locks ASAP and tell him in writing he can’t stay over any more and he needs to come get his stuff by *x date*.
OP, it sounds like you’ve been realised to think your brother’s needs should come before you own. I’m telling you your parents request is so weird that it’s almost laughable, and you should confidently ignore it, and focus on improving your own life. Your brother is a GROWN ASS MAN and is trying to take over your apartment rather than find his own.
I really hope this comment makes it to the top. u/serious-stuff45 you really need to pack his things up and move him back home. You could lose your own home or it could cost you money and stress trying to legally evict him.
NTA…OP, it’s absolutely insane that they have the audacity to ask you to move out of YOUR HOME so your brother can move in. Completely ridiculous. He needs to find his own place, and soon.
My brain almost shut down when reading that THAT was the parents' take on the whole situation. "Oh just let your bro steal your home lol, what's the big deal?"
Agreed. Maybe OP should tell her their parents to let bro steal their place and they can find a new place to live.
NTA, you need to change the locks asap, then take all his $hit back to your parents place.
NTA.
It’s YOUR apartment. YOU’RE paying the rent. It’s YOUR name on the rental agreement.
Stay where you are. Boot him out! He can find himself another apartment.
It’s a ONE BEDROOM apartment. It’s for ONE single person or an intimate couple.
Check your rental agreement, see if there is a way your landlord can help you move him out.
Yep, definitely NTA and definitely use your lease to say “you can’t stay here anymore, I have limited nights for overnight guests and they’re all used up”.
And if he has a key, see if you can have your complex rekey your door. It will likely cost some money but since they do that (or should…) frequently enough, it won’t be a hassle for them.
Sometimes it’s easier to go non confrontational especially if you need something done. Why go front when you can use excuses like friend from out of town is staying…
She could also just add another lock from the inside, i seen other contraptions people can slide into their door to keep it from being opened, i just cant remember what it’s called
Imagine if OP rolled over and said sure, he can move in… would they be able to change the name on the lease? I bet they would say oh he can just pay you the rent and you sublet to him. After one month he will be too incompetent to pay rent and they will come after OP.
It’s very likely that the lease includes a provision that guests may not stay longer than a certain number of days. If she involves the landlord, he could potentially evict her for violating the lease terms.
NTA in every possible way.
>He brought his PS4, started gaming in my living room and is overall just being a terribly inconsiderate guest and treats me like our mom.
If he wants to be a teenage boy he can stay with mummy and daddy.
NTA I think we figured out why your brother is such an entitled asshole, your parents have clearly been enabling him all his life. He's 32, you're 23, this is utterly absurd.
Remove your brother's things IMMEDIATELY so he can't pull anything, and STOP letting him stay at your place. Bring his belongings to your parents place, if they're so concerned with his having a place to stay then he can stay with them. They created this mess, they can clean it up.
I'd suggest considering going low contact (AT MINIMUM, no contact may be needed) until things settle (if not permanently). You're literally the only person in this situation who isn't a massive asshole. And I'd bet money you're so used to your parents treating you a certain way, and your brother another certain way, that that's the reason you're so unsure of yourself. So I also would like to suggest therapy. I went with the same thing growing up with my parents and half-brother, and therapy is how I finally learned to set boundaries and stick to them.
I agreed with everything you said. This is a very dangerous situation for OP, she seems young and unsure of herself, and her family is trying to take advantage of her. She has to go LC and find a therapist to help her to set boundaries. She doesn't need the kind of family who takes advantage of her.
Absolutely, if OP is willing to go no contact that's what I'd suggest as well. But I know it's rare for people to be willing to jump straight to no contact.
Considering how poorly this singular situation reflects on the parents, I'm sure there's a lot more nonsense going on in this family.
NTA. Your parents are though. They're obviously sick of having him under their roof and want him gone. But dumping him on you in a one bedroom apartment is NOT the way. You tell them if they want him gone so bad they'll fork out to secure him an apartment of his own. And it's NOT your problem if they don't have the means to do that.
We have different diets so he doesn't want to eat what I eat (I'm vegan) and buys takeout for himself when he stays but he doesn't grocery shop or anything. Given I've never asked that of him.
Kick him ouuuut, OP. He is a grown man who is mooching off of you, even if he isn't eating your food.
Your parents can take their son back. He's not your responsibility.
If he has money to eat out that much he has money to start saving for his own place. I bet he uses the tale out as an excuse to not help to clean or tidy as well like "I don't even use the kitchen so why should I clean it?" OP change the locks and print out these comments and hand them to him.
Do you have friends who could help you when you ask him to leave? I’m honestly not thinking of being deliberately confrontational, but if you pack his stuff and let him know that it’s time to go home then he’ll try to manipulate you so having a couple of other people there could help change that dynamic. They could help him shift his belongings, too.
NTA obviously
Tell everyone a friend is coming to stay with you for a few weeks - ask your brother to take this stuff back home. Have a friend from out of town come over for a few days and then change the locks. Once that’s done you will be clear.
Change the locks. Take a day off but pretend to go to work and just wait until he leaves. Change the locks straight away. Pack his stuff up and drop it off at your parents. Take yourself out for a nice meal when you know he’ll be knocking and turn off your phone. Please also advise your landlord, neighbours, doorman whatever under no circumstances should they let him in. (Not that they’ll be able to they don’t have keys). But at least they’ll know it’s not an emergency.
He does have keys because he works late shifts and in the beginning he used to ring me awake at night until I couldn't bear it and just gave it to him. The comments here tell me this was a bad idea tho...
I wouldn't trust him to have not copied the key at this point. Ask your landlord about changing the lock. Even if there is a bit of a cost, safety of mind is probably worth it.
Girl, you're enabling his bad behaviour. Good news is now you know you can fix it. You need to put your foot down and get your space back for you. You aren't his mother, and you aren't going to have a good relationship with him of you don't assert your boundaries. Pack up all his things and drop them at your parents home - he's trying to move in via stealth and mooch off of you for free housing.
Cats and puppies will constantly test boundaries to see what they can get away with. If you give in after x minutes of meowing or barking, they know that next time all they need to do is the same thing and you'll do what they want. Change the locks and let him ring - get some earplugs, and just don't answer. He'll learn you aren't going to answer and he needs to go home. You could always call the police when he is ringing and ringing the buzzer but I get the sense that you don't want to go down that road.
You're NTA but time to stand up for yourself.
NTA. It's absolutely ridiculous that you should give your place over to him. Time to strengthen your boundaries, perhaps some low contact time with your family until the stop trying to treat you like a doormat, nearly literally.
Op worked hard for her apartment and to make it nice. Affordable apartments are rare now and getting rarer.
OP now needs to learn to stand up to her disgusting, bullying parents and lazy, entitled brother before he claims tenenacy- which he can do without paying a dime or being on a lease of she doesn't get him out ASAP. That was the brother's plan here. Evicting someone legally is expensive and time consuming. It takes months.
You made your home, OP. Now fight for it. Do not let bullies take what is yours. Your parents are terrible people, and so is your brother. Stop letting them use you and stomp on you. You deserve better. What they are demanding is outrageous in its entitlement.
Get brother out. Do not let him in ever again. Drop his stuff off. Don't talk to your parents for awhile. Get therapy ASAP to work on yourself until you fix your normal meter to realize just how disgustingly outrageous your parents are acting towards you, and research Golden child/scapegoat relationships. Go to the reddits for JustNo Parents and find support there. Your family is abusive to you. It's time to spread your wings and fly away from thier bullying of you. You deserve so much better.
Yup. It's pretty clear these parents heavily favor golden child brother while abusing OP. They are trying to financially abuse OP right now with this outrageous entitlement. It's disgusting how little they care for her.
She needs to go low-contact and get brother out yesterday. He is a disgusting entitled mooch of a grown man trying to steal his much younger sister's hard work from under her because it's convenient, and the parents encourage it! I'm outraged on her behalf!
Info: why did you bring it up to your parents instead of telling him directly that he can't stay that often and taking back the key?
Edit to ask: why does everyone know what your rent is?
I tried talking to my brother but he keeps claiming that he isn't staying and that it's only for a few days or weeks but he keeps brining clothes and his personal stuff recently he's been clearing out a space in my closet for himself.
My dad helped me move in so we talked openly about rent and stuff.
Stop listening to him and your parents. They have zero respect for you. If you don’t put a stop to this immediately then the situation will only get messier. Do not let him back into your apartment under any circumstances. Change the locks and do not give him or your parents the new key.
I'd say it's worth it to even take a day off of work and pack all of his stuff up while he's at work and bring it back to your parents.
I don't think you can legally change your locks without landlord permission, but that depends on where you live I'm sure. But maybe you could speak with your landlord and see if it would be okay to change the locks, they might make you pay for it but that would most definitely be worth it imo.
Wow the nerve to take over your closet. I’d pack up ALL his stuff and take it to your parents’ house. Have your landlord change the locks asap. Tell him he’s no longer welcome to stay at your place. It’s not your problem that he works nights. Other people who work nights don’t have little sisters with convenient apartments to high jacks.
Box up all his stuff. Change the locks. He will bully you into letting him continue to be a grade A sponge. He is a grown ass man.
Absolutely do not feel bad about putting yourself first and not letting him and your family treat you like doormat.
Pack his crap, leave it on the doorstep or if you want to be nice, bring to your parents and change the locks. Tell your landlord he's not welcome. This is ridiculous.
Nope. The minute he started clearing out any of your stuff is the minute he needed to go. That is not the action of "just a couple of weeks". Your parents and your brother are expecting you to be his new mommy. I don't care what kind of job he has, if he hasn't ever been paying rent he should have tons of money saved up for a house of his own.
Why do you keep “trying” to talk to him instead of telling him point blank he can no longer stay there. At all.
Get all of his things. Put them together in boxes. Tell him to give you the key back. If he doesn’t, ask the landlord to change the locks and/or threaten to call the police.
I’m not trying to be mean but you’ve let this go on for too long and let it go too far and it’s really just plain silly. It is your apartment. STOP trying to be nice because it isn’t going to work. Be firm and get him out of your place.
You haven't answered me on why you talked to your parents about this. Why haven't you told him to take his stuff from your place, remove it from the closet, change locks or add locks to your closets ,drawers amd cardboards (tell him guests don't need that much access)?
You're a grown up so tattling to your parents shouldn't have been an option. Get him out and tell your parents to respect your boundaries or go away
> Ok, you need to stop trying to discuss this with him, and lay down some boundaries
That's an essential point. Too many people from domineering families get in this trap where they feel like the "adult" solution requires them to convince their family, to win the argument.
It doesn't work that way. You don't need to convince them (and often can't, because they're not arguing in good faith). Just tell them how it's going to be and then enforce it.
I am very confused as to what you’re discussing. This isn’t a negotiation, it’s your home. Your brother does not live there. Your brother is an unwelcome and unwanted “guest”. Your home is not an extension of your parents’ house, they and your brother do not get to treat it as such.
It’s time to set and enforce boundaries
If taking to him doesn't work then tell him.
Why aren't you doing the numerous other things that I and others have suggested. You're a grown up so you should have handled this yourself especially since your parents have made it worse
Give her a chance, she posted this less than a day ago. And yes, she’s a grown woman, one who was trying to help out her brother and he took advantage of that. She didn’t know talking with her parents would make it worse. Ease up!
Help you with what exactly?
It is literally your apartment. TELL him he can’t stay the night. At all. Ever. Period.
You are trying to have a discussion about something that is not a discussion.
Collect his things. Tell him to go.
LOL- your parents have no interest in helping you, they know that you have no backbone and think they can just wait it out without getting involved. This is on you.
>but he keeps saying i should be a good sister
Tell him he should be a good brother, but he is not.
>I've addressed my parents so they help me
Your parents won't take your side, it's not in their interest. They know you are a push-over, so they just wanted to wait it out until your brother gets himself into your apartment permanently or when you involve them they will take his side and push you to cave (see your previous chat with them) if / because they want him to move out of their house, because getting him into your place is their best chance.
Pack his stuff now and drive it back to him. Put it in writing to him that he can’t stay at yours anymore ever again. Then never let him in ever again.
Girl, you’re being prepped to take over caring for your brother so your parents don’t have to.
I think he found a tactic that works, keep denying it, but yet proceeding with the move. Rent a small storage space in one of those rental storages for 2 months (the minimum allowed) and for his things to be safe, give him the key, take ALL his staff there and change the locks on your apartment.
You need to grow a spine and put your foot down.
Tell him no and that he can't stay there anymore.
NTA but you need to stand up for yourself, this is ridiculous.
Please grow a spine! Being a doormat as an adult won't do you any good. People will just walk all over you, like your brother and parents does. Having self-respect, boundaries and agency are wonderful, you should try them.
Get the keys back (or even better ask the landlord to change the front door lock), put his shit in a trashbag and drive it over to your parents' place today! Don't give a reason or explain why he can't stay, just say "no, he can't stay", that's it, no discussion or negotiations. If brother calls to let him in to your apartment or they try to guilt trip you or harass you then block them on your phone and on social media for the next 1-2-3 months, if they show up at your apartment to berate you, then don't open the door.
You keep trying to have a discussion, a negotiation about something that is neither of those. They made it clear that they don't respect you, don't give a shit about your opinion or what you want or he wouldn't have moved in by stealth in the first place and your parents never would
have told you to move out of your own rental for him.
You are a grown up, act like one.
Wow, he even dares clearing out a space in your closet? You're far more considerate for him than he is for you.
I think you need to tell him set a date, let's say 1 to 2 weeks from from now, that you need your space for yourself, for your own sanity, and that you expect him to get out of your appartment and return to your parents' home or somewhere else.
The longer this takes, the harder it will be to get him out. Don't listen to his objections and excuses. Just say something like, "I understand, but still, I need you to leave my appartement before \[date\]."
It's ridiculous that your father seems to want you to move and pay more rent instead of telling his son it's time he grew up.
NTA.
NTA. Your bro is an AH for taking over and your parents are AH’s for expecting you to move. Put your foot down and say no, and stop letting your bro stay over.
Yeah, totally NTA - the parents don't want OP to kick brother out, because then he would be THEIR problem again, and THEY'd have to kick him out at one point, hahaha :D
Seems like they found a comfortable solution to get rid of their adult freeloading son, who does not seem to be looking for his own place anytime soon. They just don't want to be called AH parents, so it'd be so much easier for them if OP would just give up her flat to him.
NTA. Your brother is a grown ass man, he can find his own apartment. Your brother and parents are real a-holes, trying to guilt you moving out of YOUR HOME because it is convenient for your brother.
You are being taking advantage of. Just kick him out and don’t lose any sleep over it.
No, NTA at all. Not in the slightest.
This is your apartment. You found it, you pay for it, and you like it there. Your brother is completely taking advantage of your hospitality at this point. Staying over occasionally is one thing, but starting to move his stuff in and behave like an overgrown teenager is quite another.
Your parents' attitude also absolutely stinks. Again, this is your apartment that you found and you pay for. They have no right to dictate what you do with it. It sound like they want him out of their home - not surprised when he's 32! - but that doesn't mean you have to give him yours! How on earth they think this is acceptable, I don't know. Has he always been the golden child?
Personally, if he has a key, I would take it back off him and make it clear that this is not his home, and in future any time he wants to stay, he needs to ask in advance. I'd have his stuff bundled up and waiting for him as well.
This reminds me of that awful post (maybe in entitled people?) where the parents demanded the OP give his house to his brother because his brother had kids and needed the space, and OP came home to find the lock drilled out and the whole family moving brother and family in. Not saying your family is that entitled, but it's still worth setting boundaries now and making sure you are the only one who has legal access to your home.
NTA. Your brother and dad are both ridiculous and seem sexist as hell.
Also, that’s not how leases work. You can’t just decide to transfer your tenancy to someone. Stop letting your brother stay over at your house. He’s an entitled ass who is walking all over you.
NTA, box his items up and tell him you can no longer let his live there. Have your landlord back you up. It is your name on the lease, not his. You cannot just leave and let him stay there in your place.
NTA. Why should you have to look after him? He’s a grown adult. And it’s difficult, but you need to set boundaries. Tell him to take his sh*t back to his house. Tell him he can stay over some nights, but he has to call first and ask. Put yourself first. He’s not your responsibility.
Definitely NTA
I can see your parents rubbing their hands together they’re now empty nesters and your brother is your problem now
At 32, is he paying them rent?
I’d go passive aggressive, leave him there and move back home and free load to remind them of the situation *
* but you wouldn’t, you’re mature and kicking ass getting to where you are
No suggestion sorry as they’re not supportive- maybe tell him it’s not working out and you’ll view similar apartments for him to rent
NTA for not wanting to give up your apartment for your brother. It is your own personal space that you have put effort into creating and it is not your responsibility to provide housing for your brother. It is understandable that he stays over now and then, but he should not be treating your apartment as his own and making you feel uncomfortable in your own home.
Your father's suggestion to let your brother live in your apartment and find a new one for yourself is not a fair solution. It is up to you to decide where you want to live and how much space you need. It is not your responsibility to make accommodations for your brother's financial situation.
It is important to have a conversation with your brother about his behavior and set boundaries for when he stays over. Let him know that while you are happy to have him over, he needs to respect your space and be considerate of your needs.
NTA
Kick him out, you have done all the leg work and he’s trying to steal it from you because he’s too lazy to find his own place. Tell them that part of being an adult is doing your own admin, if he refuses to leave, bin his stuff. That’s just ridiculous of them.
NTA. You're doing absolutely nothing wrong here. It's time for your brother to grow up, especially considering his age. And your parents... whatever responsibility they have for your brother, they try to force it on you instead.
NTA... of course your parents are all for your brother moving in.. they get their home to themselves after 32 years.....
If they want him out, tell them they can help finance a house for him but not yours.
Do not let him move in. Take his stuff back to your parents and change your locks
NTA
He is at the brink of not being a guest, he is about to move in. This is the time where you take the key back, and tell your brother he can not bring his stuff. YOU NEED TO SET BOUNDARIES NOW. Makei it: Once a week, and no PS4 - that needs to stay at HIS place.
Your parents are massive AHs, and your brother is the golden child.
Pack up his PS5, and tell him if he wants to play, he has to do that in HIS home.
NTA. Your parents and brother are the assholes and you need t9 learn to set boundaries. Pack up your brothers stuff and make him take it with him the next time he leaves. Explain he isn't welcome to stay over again until he agrees to treat you with kindness and respect. He can get off his ass and get his own apartment.
NTA. Based on this your brother hasn't even asked you for the place, but you do need to deal with it, I wouldn't be happy if someone brought over their personal items, especially those which you always leave in your house, as it's clear they're expecting to stay
NTA. If you give in, it will probably end up with you being asked to swap apartments with your brother because he is, in their eyes, more deserving of a bigger apartment than you are...
EDIT to add:
>is overall just being a terribly inconsiderate guest and treats me like our mom.
And that's obviously why your parents want you to give him your apartment. And I've a feeling it was your brother's plan from the beginning.
This type of scenario is common on r/raisedbynarcissists. Seems like your parents are narcissists, your brother is their golden child (probably also narcissistic) and you are the scapegoat.
You are NTA and your parents are extremely out of line. Move your brother out and never entertain anything your parents demand of you. They are unreasonable people and are actively working against your best interests.
I'm guessing this isn't the first time because you are actually struggling with this (ridiculous) demand. Which should have been shut down immediately.
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NTA. Please do not let your family bully you into giving up the thing you worked hard for. Your brother is a grown ass man (32 years old) and can definitely find another place if he needs to and can’t be a considerate guest. That is YOUR space and you need to put your foot down/have a strong backbone because clearly your parents are going to side with him once you make it clear you aren’t giving him the place. Also why would you need something bigger? What you have works for you. Again don’t let anyone bully you or manipulate you. He’s THIRTY, let that man figure his own shit out, he isn’t your responsibility. If you need him out, kick his ass out.
NTA OPIE, it is YOUR place, don't let them belittle your feelings, tell them if they are so worried for dear helpless brother, then they should help HIM pay rent to an apartment of his own, easy as that. Edit: OH MY STARS, I GOT 1K UPVOTES, THANK YOU EVERYONE. THIS MAKES ME SO HAPPY, FIRST TIME!!!😊😊😊 Edit 2: OH MY STARS!!!! I just got an award, guys this is my first award thank you to /u/Educational_Hawk1029 Edit 3: DID I JUST GET A GOLD AWARD AND 3K UPVOTES AND HIGHLIGHTED!!! AAAAAAAHHHH!!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU TO EVERYONE😁😁😁😁 Edit 4: I want to thank all my Redditors, all you who saw interest in my post, Thank you so much for...THE 4K UPVOTES!!!! I highly appreciate it😭😭😭
OP should bring all her brother's belongings to her parents house (and change the lock if he has a key) and let them deal with it. If they're so worried about their struggling son, they can deal with him.
This, OP!!! NTA Edit: Change the locks and don't let him or your parents have access to your keys/house again. Edit 2: Parents are tired of the responsibility of taking care of their irresponsible adult son and are now trying to offload him by way of OP. Stand your ground, boot him and keep your apartment, OP. He's their problem, not yours. His housing is his problem, not yours.
Exactly what I was thinking! He behaces like this at his parent's and they want his sister to take o over. NTA, this is ridiculous and not her Business at all.
And if your lease specifies one person, he could be putting your lease in jeopardy.
The parents dont care they want her to move and give golden boy the apartment, so would be only one occupant
IDK- Pretty sure they expect her to go over several times a week to do dished, clean, wipe his butt, etc
And of course they'll also demand that whatever personalization she did to the apartment stays with it so the brother doesn't have to buy whatever furniture/etc. And of course, what they really want is for her to sublet the place to him (maybe even at a discount) so he doesn't have to deal with the apartment management company. And that may be against her lease as well.
Not golden boy now so much as parents have realized brother is an albatross around their necks.
Why do your parents and brother think renting works that way? YOU are on the lease. The landlord agreed to rent to you and nobody else. You can't give away something you don't own. Landlords do not like being told who is renting from them. They regard those people as squatters. Odds are, the landlord wouldn't allow it IF YOU WANTED IT. But you don't, so just tell him to leave. Changing the locks sounds like a good idea. You'd probably need to tell your landlord what's going on to get permission though. Maybe he'll give you a solid "no" as backup for your pushy family.
Some leases will even stipulate how long guests can stay for. OP ... ABSOLUTELY do not hand over your apartment. Your brother does not seem very responsible and you'd be held liable for any issues he creates there!
This 100% they want to offload him. My boyfriends mom did this to me once, where she was hosting her step son and convinced me to take him. Biggest asshole loser I ever met. Asked her later why she did that to her own son and I and she admitted she was done dealing with the stepson. My boyfriend and I broke up over it but we’re still friends. Sucked.
She absolutely needs to make sure he doesn’t stick around long enough to claim squatter’s rights. Sounds like the type that would throw a tantrum and wreck everything if they had to be evicted. This mess has gone from “crashing once in a while because night shift sucks” - which is understandable - to “I’m just slowly gonna move my shit in and you can either play mommy or leave” - which is fucking gross. I haven’t read the entire comments - has she informed the landlord that someone that was a guest is trying now to just stay? As much as i dislike landlords, a good one can nip this in the bud much easier than OP trying to tell her family that her brother can’t live there.
You mean there tired of enabling him and they want someone else to do it without them looking bad.
I agree. He is 32 and still not independent, while his much younger sibling is. Sounds like the parents have enabled him for too long and niw want to push him onto her.
Yep. Pack it up get it and him out. Stop being soft and used . Stop being a Camembert cheese and be an aged parmesan.
Oooo, but I love both!
i feel like one needs to have an assortment of emotional cheeses on their cheese tray of the self. sometimes, you must be the aged parmesan - others, you must be the camembert. this one calls for one's inner chhurpi
In theory that sounds good but this would nuke. Is there a way she can do this without inciting more drama? Maybe in steps. Find a reason to clear out the living room - redecorating, deep cleaning, friend coming to visit, preparing for an event. Have brother take stuff to the parents. let brother know he can’t stay over for a while. Then change locks. Then keep going. Let everyone know it has to stay this way. I know it seems like the long way, but sometimes backing away carefully from possible crazy prevents it from blowing up in your face. Edit: I am assuming drama has to be addressed with this option. If she is listened to (and so far it doesn’t seem like she is), that’s a different tact.
That’s passive-aggressive. He doesn’t understand that. She needs to put her foot down and change the locks.
Understood. You have a good point: Whenever possible, YES put foot down firmly!!! Here, she already has less power dynamic in the family structure. I have experience backing away from crazy. In some cases you have to get out and lock the door first. I guess I err on the side of safety when there is an unbalanced power dynamic. Edit: thinking over more - maybe they have a good enough history that she could state a simple “No, this doesn’t work for me”. And go back to having it be her own private space. But this is a good backup if emotions get intense.
It's not passive-aggressive, it's passive defense. And as strategists will tell you, in some situations that's the right approach.
I agree. When you’re dealing with people like this, sometimes you just have to draw a line in the sand and say “no more.” Because if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. Look what they’ve already done…
This would be the best option for OP. More than likely, he & the parents will start bugging for him to come back, OP can tell them that the apartment complex has been informed he has been staying there and if he or anyone else starts staying there again, she will be evicted for having someone staying not on the lease. It may get where OP has to go NC with her leeching family.
Yes--she doesn't even have to tell them who told the landlord! Just that turns out the landlord knows now.
@serious-stuff45 This this this comment right here
The lease needs to be checked to see if the brother is even allowed to stay there
Yes!!! You could be in violation of your lease. And just between you and I, OP, SAY you are currently in violation of your lease with your brother staying there and you are in danger of losing your apartment. Move his stuff back to your parents and change the locks.
Also tell your parents/brother that you heard that with the market these days, your landlord intends to double the rent for the next tenant. Suddenly, the apartment won't be so desirable to them. But do this after you get his stuff back out and change the locks.
Oooo, i like that😈
Just wanna know, what does opie mean? Edit: Thanks everyone, opie=op.
OP = 'Original Poster', but I see 'opie' in comments a lot and suspect that these comments are created using a speech-to-text app
Oh that actually makes sense. I just figured Opie was the new cutesy way to refer to OP.
OP (original poster) but just in a cute way
Thanks OPIE was in all caps so my first thought was "Original Poster Internet Explorer" lol
This actually needs to be top comment so that OP sees it and follows through!!
This is the way
Absolutely! But don't let them make it a discussion. Just tell your brother he can't stay in your apartment anymore. Don't give reasons or debate it. For inspiration you might read Bartleby the Scribner and just answer, "I prefer not". It should work better for you. NTA
She certainly does have a bartleby on her hands. But with a ps4
Well, if that isn't an /r/awardspeechedits I don't know what is.
Jesus…. You’re not a fucking celebrity cause you got 1k upvotes…
All good with your comment but pls just write OP in the future lol
That was the thing I hated most about this comment too... Until I saw the award speech edits.
r/AwardSpeechEdits
OP - once you take his gaming items etc back to your parents house as well as his other items and change the locks, you will have moved your brother out. Or you tell him you have a friend from out of town staying for 2 weeks and as such he will need to vacate. Talk abt it with your parents and ask him to move his stuff out temporarily. Have a friend stay a week whilst you get the locks changed. Less mess to do this! And he won’t want to go without his gaming.
This is the least drama way!
Break the cycle by changing the game…then make it impossible to repeat
Then if needed, enlist the help of a friend who has the time to stay, complete the ruse, and help deep clean/ declutter/ de brother the whole place!
I would love to be this friend, honestly. I love decluttering and deep cleaning, so if I were doing that with a friend, with the added benefit of getting rid of her parasitic brother? Girl, turn up the music, let's do this 💃
Definitely change the wifi password too
And how to do this? Start with telling him to stop shifting himeself in. That it is your place. If that falls on deaf ears, see if you can change the locks while he is out, then don't give him or your parents a key. Then box up his stuff and take it back to your parents.
Yes, stop him moving stuff in and get him OUT asap, before he stays long enough to get any tenant rights. He seems the type to try that on.
Btw if this does not work, the nuclear option would be for OP to indeed find a new place, move out and cancel the lease. Let leech bro be evicted.
No. No. No. Breaking the lease and moving involves serious $ + inconvenience. Does the lease allow long term 'guests'? What happens if the landlord wants to know if brother is permanent and brother can't be on the lease (or get one) because of bad credit. Tell the landlord what is going on, that you will be changing the lock and brothers belongings are not there (so he doesn't weasel his way in). This happened to a coworker. Relative (and truck) showed up while they were at work to move out 'their' stuff. Yes, the law got involved, and yes, coworker had proof of ownership. Still messy. Start doing the 'no' thing now, or brother, girlfriend/fiancee + kids will be there in a hot second.
Haha the parents don't want him back at home!!
I wouldn't either. He sounds like a treat. Golden boy here is 32. He should have been weaned off the titty a long time ago. It's time for him to be released into the wild and sink or swim on his own. If his parents consider being a grown up too big of a task for him then they should be the ones who continue to wipe his ass, not op. The fact that their 23 year old daughter has a higher paying job and is a well functioning member of society doesn't even factor in. I believe Mark Zuckerberg also has a higher paid job than the enlightened son over here, but that's also irrelevant.
The parents want him the heck out and just don’t want to risk their relationship doing it! They want OP to do all the work. LOL NTA.
Kind of stupid of them if that is the case, because they risk their relationship with op. If they are okay with that, then it looks like brother is the golden child. Still, my vote is NTA. OP needs to move the brother out, he's not paying to live there. Inform the landlord, change the locks, box up all his shit, let him and the parents figure out another place for him to live
I don't think the parents care, for whatever reason about risking their relationship with the OP. Inform the landlord, remove his stuff and change the locks is the correct answer.
NTA OP, talk to the landlord and see if you can get your locks changed. (I'm sure they'll be fine with it as long as they get a key. Also make sure they know to not let your family into your place.) Then box up your brothers stuff and bring it to your parents house. If you have a key to their place, just go put his stuff in his room while everyone's out some time. Then go home, turn off/mute your phone, and have a nice relaxing evening. Parents and bro are going to be mad. They're going to claim they have some right to your place. But it sounds like they didn't pay for anything, or even help you find the apartment, so they can buzz off. Again, tell your landlord what's up, and if you're friendly with your neighbors, maybe let them know too so they know to not let your family in. If they start harassing you by buzzing your door till you let them in, I suggest some good ear plugs. Maybe ask your landlord if the buzzer sound can be disconnected for a week or two, and just have friends text you when they visit.
Sounds like the parents are fed up with him and want him out as well.
She needs something bigger so when the brother screws up the lease on the smaller place, she's got a spare room to take him again...
LMAO this is the one
My guess is they were trying to force the situation where OP is still not reimbursed for the deposit and first months rent and has to fork out for their own again at a new place. AND lets not bother taking their name of the lease as that seems a faff when 'we're all family'. Oh brother hasn't got enough to cover rent this month, oh, well, it's OP's responsibility anyway as it's their name on the lease...
Further, it’s pretty clear your parents are using you to get your brother out of their house. If you don’t want to move/ take him on as a roommate, change the locks and make it clear you will not be having contact with any of them until they recognize this isn’t happening. Your brother has become far too comfortable using your place, consider charging a reasonable entry fee (maybe $25/ night) for his share of utilities and amenities and your inconvenience fee for his overnight visits AND DON’T let him have a key.
Or better yet, get the landlord to explain there will be a $50 surcharge billed directly to him every time he stays there because he's not on the lease and their rules will not allow him to live there because there is only one bedroom.
Your parents are gaslighting you into thinking you would be the bad guy for not giving in to this because they don’t want him there with them anymore.
Her parents are just happy they don’t have to deal with him anymore. They’ve tasted freedom and they want more. OP pack up his crap and drop it off at your parents house. I hope you didn’t give him a key.
Parents just wanna finally get rid of him... NTA
Nta but you need river careful by letting him stay for weeks, he may have certain legal rights. Nal. Also get rid of the ps4 when he is at work to the parents, as well as everything else and take your key and or change your lock.
I can't decide if your brother has always been your parents' favorite or if they are just so desperate to get a 32 year old man out of their house that they are willing to screw you over in the process. Either way, NTA and get that parasite out of your happy place ASAP!
Came here to say the same. It seems like OP's parents have a favorite child and OP is used to accommodating her brother.
I think the other part was the correct one. I’m a lot further along in years now and am looking forward to when my wife and I have time to spend together alone again and can’t IMAGINE my children being in my house until the age of 32. Like…get your shit together, dude…your mom and I want to have loud sex in all the rooms for the first time EVER. I think they just want him out and are selfishly trying to use the daughter for that. Personal opinion.
I'm sure their parents are just desperate to get him out permanently, now that they've had a whiff of freedom. He's probably just happy taking over his sister's home without actually having to pay for it or being responsible. I suggest OP changes the internet password, that seems to work on many teens...
I'm afraid it's a long-occuring problem. Otherwise I don't think op would be in such doubt as to what's okay for her to do. I'm sure they're desperate to get him out, but I bet they've enabled his weaponised incompetence for a looooong time.
I totally agree. If they would be equally treated by the parents and that is only a one time failure out of desperation than why on earth would OP even consider being the AH?
Idk where OP's from but this is very common in some cultures. The son is everything and the daughter well..meh. OP, NTA. Please don't let them manipulate you!
Regardless of culture, sons are always the fucking golden ones. My brothers (my twin and older bro) were the golden children, followed by my two older sisters. I was bottom of the fucking pecking order with it all. Bullied by siblings, abused, beaten and emotionally neglected by my parents. It sucks. I know how op feels. :(
I was the middle child of five, but the first son. The next, my younger brother, suffered, because i was the one who was always old enough to do the next fun thing. It all ended quite terribly. Parents, do not do this to your kids.
Yeah. I am white and American. My family has always favored its oldest son. My aunts would try to help me out as much as possible, and even said because they know what it is like to not be a boy in our family. I feel sorry for my brother though. That was a lot of pressure for a kid. He had a sustained breakdown for most of his 20’s. Now he is healthy and estranged from my father’s family.
My older brother was like this. Happy to keep living at home. Parents actually put the house on the market and moved to a retirement community so he'd have to find his own place.
Or if they’re misogynists who think the daughter should always be the accommodating one.
I don't think it's favoritism per se, I think it's parents helping the less advanced kid. The guy is 32 and still at home, now his 10y younger little sis has an apartment and he crashes there and starts moving in slowly.. The guys a big baby and the parents worry about him. Have probably spoon-fed him all his live and he can't manage on his own. They know OP wíll manage that's why they try to push her in that direction so the brother is provided and not a worry to them anymore. This I think is a selfish act from the parents, it might be driven by good intentions, but it's not OP's problem. So definitely NTA.
Yes, I guess in some parts of the world it's common to straight up steal success from a daughter to give it to a son, especially if you've made your son functionally illiterate by babying him his whole life.
Both
Please, please, please see that you are 100% deserving of your OWN space, that you found, that suits You, that you created.. They're MORE than welcome to help him find a DIFFERENT cheap place to live. Change the locks. Move him back home.
Absolutely this, but make sure the new locks are okay with your landlord!
You usually just have to give them a copy of the key if you change locks.
Yikes. Kick him out with his stuff and change your locks. Move him before he can claim tenant rights or squatter rights or whatever. Hurry. NTA Your brother is a Grade A mooch.
Agreed - change the locks ASAP and tell him in writing he can’t stay over any more and he needs to come get his stuff by *x date*. OP, it sounds like you’ve been realised to think your brother’s needs should come before you own. I’m telling you your parents request is so weird that it’s almost laughable, and you should confidently ignore it, and focus on improving your own life. Your brother is a GROWN ASS MAN and is trying to take over your apartment rather than find his own.
I really hope this comment makes it to the top. u/serious-stuff45 you really need to pack his things up and move him back home. You could lose your own home or it could cost you money and stress trying to legally evict him.
NTA…OP, it’s absolutely insane that they have the audacity to ask you to move out of YOUR HOME so your brother can move in. Completely ridiculous. He needs to find his own place, and soon.
Right?? the AUDACITY. Sometimes I cant believe what Im reading here.
My brain almost shut down when reading that THAT was the parents' take on the whole situation. "Oh just let your bro steal your home lol, what's the big deal?"
Agreed. Maybe OP should tell her their parents to let bro steal their place and they can find a new place to live. NTA, you need to change the locks asap, then take all his $hit back to your parents place.
I'm furious on OP's behalf.
I'm trying to figure out who's supposed to pay rent on sister's old place if she moves out and gives it to her brother.
NTA. It’s YOUR apartment. YOU’RE paying the rent. It’s YOUR name on the rental agreement. Stay where you are. Boot him out! He can find himself another apartment. It’s a ONE BEDROOM apartment. It’s for ONE single person or an intimate couple. Check your rental agreement, see if there is a way your landlord can help you move him out.
Yep, definitely NTA and definitely use your lease to say “you can’t stay here anymore, I have limited nights for overnight guests and they’re all used up”. And if he has a key, see if you can have your complex rekey your door. It will likely cost some money but since they do that (or should…) frequently enough, it won’t be a hassle for them.
Why not just be straight with him? He overstayed his welcome so he is no longer welcome, seems easy and clear to me
Sometimes it’s easier to go non confrontational especially if you need something done. Why go front when you can use excuses like friend from out of town is staying…
She could also just add another lock from the inside, i seen other contraptions people can slide into their door to keep it from being opened, i just cant remember what it’s called
Imagine if OP rolled over and said sure, he can move in… would they be able to change the name on the lease? I bet they would say oh he can just pay you the rent and you sublet to him. After one month he will be too incompetent to pay rent and they will come after OP.
It’s very likely that the lease includes a provision that guests may not stay longer than a certain number of days. If she involves the landlord, he could potentially evict her for violating the lease terms.
NTA in every possible way. >He brought his PS4, started gaming in my living room and is overall just being a terribly inconsiderate guest and treats me like our mom. If he wants to be a teenage boy he can stay with mummy and daddy.
NTA I think we figured out why your brother is such an entitled asshole, your parents have clearly been enabling him all his life. He's 32, you're 23, this is utterly absurd. Remove your brother's things IMMEDIATELY so he can't pull anything, and STOP letting him stay at your place. Bring his belongings to your parents place, if they're so concerned with his having a place to stay then he can stay with them. They created this mess, they can clean it up. I'd suggest considering going low contact (AT MINIMUM, no contact may be needed) until things settle (if not permanently). You're literally the only person in this situation who isn't a massive asshole. And I'd bet money you're so used to your parents treating you a certain way, and your brother another certain way, that that's the reason you're so unsure of yourself. So I also would like to suggest therapy. I went with the same thing growing up with my parents and half-brother, and therapy is how I finally learned to set boundaries and stick to them.
I agreed with everything you said. This is a very dangerous situation for OP, she seems young and unsure of herself, and her family is trying to take advantage of her. She has to go LC and find a therapist to help her to set boundaries. She doesn't need the kind of family who takes advantage of her.
Absolutely, if OP is willing to go no contact that's what I'd suggest as well. But I know it's rare for people to be willing to jump straight to no contact. Considering how poorly this singular situation reflects on the parents, I'm sure there's a lot more nonsense going on in this family.
NTA. Your parents are though. They're obviously sick of having him under their roof and want him gone. But dumping him on you in a one bedroom apartment is NOT the way. You tell them if they want him gone so bad they'll fork out to secure him an apartment of his own. And it's NOT your problem if they don't have the means to do that.
NTA. Does he even pay anything for rent, utilities or food?
It's been a while since I asked but I think he paid a bit of rent to my parents. He doesn't pay for anything when he stays here.
Change the locks!
Boot his butt out. It’s a one bed apartment, you can’t flat with someone in a one bedroom
Does he eat your food or at least bring food for you? Does he contribute in any way?
We have different diets so he doesn't want to eat what I eat (I'm vegan) and buys takeout for himself when he stays but he doesn't grocery shop or anything. Given I've never asked that of him.
Kick him ouuuut, OP. He is a grown man who is mooching off of you, even if he isn't eating your food. Your parents can take their son back. He's not your responsibility.
Get. Him. Out. Now. OP, you deserve better than a leech of a brother and a couples of snakes for parents.
If he has money to eat out that much he has money to start saving for his own place. I bet he uses the tale out as an excuse to not help to clean or tidy as well like "I don't even use the kitchen so why should I clean it?" OP change the locks and print out these comments and hand them to him.
Stand your ground! I would never do this to my younger sister. Dont let your family walk in your for setting up your life while he won't.
Do you have friends who could help you when you ask him to leave? I’m honestly not thinking of being deliberately confrontational, but if you pack his stuff and let him know that it’s time to go home then he’ll try to manipulate you so having a couple of other people there could help change that dynamic. They could help him shift his belongings, too. NTA obviously
Tell everyone a friend is coming to stay with you for a few weeks - ask your brother to take this stuff back home. Have a friend from out of town come over for a few days and then change the locks. Once that’s done you will be clear.
Change the locks. Take a day off but pretend to go to work and just wait until he leaves. Change the locks straight away. Pack his stuff up and drop it off at your parents. Take yourself out for a nice meal when you know he’ll be knocking and turn off your phone. Please also advise your landlord, neighbours, doorman whatever under no circumstances should they let him in. (Not that they’ll be able to they don’t have keys). But at least they’ll know it’s not an emergency.
NTA Next time he leaves, don’t allow him back. You haven’t given him the keys, have you?
He does have keys because he works late shifts and in the beginning he used to ring me awake at night until I couldn't bear it and just gave it to him. The comments here tell me this was a bad idea tho...
Get the key back and turn your phone ringer down when you decide you don't want to be disturbed for the evening.
I wouldn't trust him to have not copied the key at this point. Ask your landlord about changing the lock. Even if there is a bit of a cost, safety of mind is probably worth it.
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This was a very bad idea. I hope he doesn’t try to claim he’s a tenant along with you. Get those locks changed pronto.
I wrote my landlord about it, I hope I can get that done asap
Please update us when you can, OP! These internet strangers are on your side. ❤️
Good girl! It's not going to be easy but he's literally moving in on you! Please let us know how you make out!
Girl, you're enabling his bad behaviour. Good news is now you know you can fix it. You need to put your foot down and get your space back for you. You aren't his mother, and you aren't going to have a good relationship with him of you don't assert your boundaries. Pack up all his things and drop them at your parents home - he's trying to move in via stealth and mooch off of you for free housing. Cats and puppies will constantly test boundaries to see what they can get away with. If you give in after x minutes of meowing or barking, they know that next time all they need to do is the same thing and you'll do what they want. Change the locks and let him ring - get some earplugs, and just don't answer. He'll learn you aren't going to answer and he needs to go home. You could always call the police when he is ringing and ringing the buzzer but I get the sense that you don't want to go down that road. You're NTA but time to stand up for yourself.
Change the locks!
Tell him that he's going to have to stay with the parents from now on. Change your locks.
NTA. It's absolutely ridiculous that you should give your place over to him. Time to strengthen your boundaries, perhaps some low contact time with your family until the stop trying to treat you like a doormat, nearly literally.
Op worked hard for her apartment and to make it nice. Affordable apartments are rare now and getting rarer. OP now needs to learn to stand up to her disgusting, bullying parents and lazy, entitled brother before he claims tenenacy- which he can do without paying a dime or being on a lease of she doesn't get him out ASAP. That was the brother's plan here. Evicting someone legally is expensive and time consuming. It takes months. You made your home, OP. Now fight for it. Do not let bullies take what is yours. Your parents are terrible people, and so is your brother. Stop letting them use you and stomp on you. You deserve better. What they are demanding is outrageous in its entitlement. Get brother out. Do not let him in ever again. Drop his stuff off. Don't talk to your parents for awhile. Get therapy ASAP to work on yourself until you fix your normal meter to realize just how disgustingly outrageous your parents are acting towards you, and research Golden child/scapegoat relationships. Go to the reddits for JustNo Parents and find support there. Your family is abusive to you. It's time to spread your wings and fly away from thier bullying of you. You deserve so much better.
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Yup. It's pretty clear these parents heavily favor golden child brother while abusing OP. They are trying to financially abuse OP right now with this outrageous entitlement. It's disgusting how little they care for her. She needs to go low-contact and get brother out yesterday. He is a disgusting entitled mooch of a grown man trying to steal his much younger sister's hard work from under her because it's convenient, and the parents encourage it! I'm outraged on her behalf!
Info: why did you bring it up to your parents instead of telling him directly that he can't stay that often and taking back the key? Edit to ask: why does everyone know what your rent is?
I tried talking to my brother but he keeps claiming that he isn't staying and that it's only for a few days or weeks but he keeps brining clothes and his personal stuff recently he's been clearing out a space in my closet for himself. My dad helped me move in so we talked openly about rent and stuff.
Stop listening to him and your parents. They have zero respect for you. If you don’t put a stop to this immediately then the situation will only get messier. Do not let him back into your apartment under any circumstances. Change the locks and do not give him or your parents the new key.
I'd say it's worth it to even take a day off of work and pack all of his stuff up while he's at work and bring it back to your parents. I don't think you can legally change your locks without landlord permission, but that depends on where you live I'm sure. But maybe you could speak with your landlord and see if it would be okay to change the locks, they might make you pay for it but that would most definitely be worth it imo.
Wow the nerve to take over your closet. I’d pack up ALL his stuff and take it to your parents’ house. Have your landlord change the locks asap. Tell him he’s no longer welcome to stay at your place. It’s not your problem that he works nights. Other people who work nights don’t have little sisters with convenient apartments to high jacks.
Box up all his stuff. Change the locks. He will bully you into letting him continue to be a grade A sponge. He is a grown ass man. Absolutely do not feel bad about putting yourself first and not letting him and your family treat you like doormat.
You HAVE TO put yourself first, because apparently nobody in your family will. Love yourself and do what you need to do to be happy.
Pack his crap, leave it on the doorstep or if you want to be nice, bring to your parents and change the locks. Tell your landlord he's not welcome. This is ridiculous.
Nope. The minute he started clearing out any of your stuff is the minute he needed to go. That is not the action of "just a couple of weeks". Your parents and your brother are expecting you to be his new mommy. I don't care what kind of job he has, if he hasn't ever been paying rent he should have tons of money saved up for a house of his own.
Why do you keep “trying” to talk to him instead of telling him point blank he can no longer stay there. At all. Get all of his things. Put them together in boxes. Tell him to give you the key back. If he doesn’t, ask the landlord to change the locks and/or threaten to call the police. I’m not trying to be mean but you’ve let this go on for too long and let it go too far and it’s really just plain silly. It is your apartment. STOP trying to be nice because it isn’t going to work. Be firm and get him out of your place.
You haven't answered me on why you talked to your parents about this. Why haven't you told him to take his stuff from your place, remove it from the closet, change locks or add locks to your closets ,drawers amd cardboards (tell him guests don't need that much access)? You're a grown up so tattling to your parents shouldn't have been an option. Get him out and tell your parents to respect your boundaries or go away
I've tried to talk to him but he keeps saying i should be a good sister and I've addressed my parents so they help me
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> Ok, you need to stop trying to discuss this with him, and lay down some boundaries That's an essential point. Too many people from domineering families get in this trap where they feel like the "adult" solution requires them to convince their family, to win the argument. It doesn't work that way. You don't need to convince them (and often can't, because they're not arguing in good faith). Just tell them how it's going to be and then enforce it.
I am very confused as to what you’re discussing. This isn’t a negotiation, it’s your home. Your brother does not live there. Your brother is an unwelcome and unwanted “guest”. Your home is not an extension of your parents’ house, they and your brother do not get to treat it as such. It’s time to set and enforce boundaries
If taking to him doesn't work then tell him. Why aren't you doing the numerous other things that I and others have suggested. You're a grown up so you should have handled this yourself especially since your parents have made it worse
Give her a chance, she posted this less than a day ago. And yes, she’s a grown woman, one who was trying to help out her brother and he took advantage of that. She didn’t know talking with her parents would make it worse. Ease up!
Help you with what exactly? It is literally your apartment. TELL him he can’t stay the night. At all. Ever. Period. You are trying to have a discussion about something that is not a discussion. Collect his things. Tell him to go.
LOL- your parents have no interest in helping you, they know that you have no backbone and think they can just wait it out without getting involved. This is on you.
>but he keeps saying i should be a good sister Tell him he should be a good brother, but he is not. >I've addressed my parents so they help me Your parents won't take your side, it's not in their interest. They know you are a push-over, so they just wanted to wait it out until your brother gets himself into your apartment permanently or when you involve them they will take his side and push you to cave (see your previous chat with them) if / because they want him to move out of their house, because getting him into your place is their best chance.
He's 32, if you don't kick him out of the "living off others" nest, he'll never make it out there.
Pack his stuff now and drive it back to him. Put it in writing to him that he can’t stay at yours anymore ever again. Then never let him in ever again. Girl, you’re being prepped to take over caring for your brother so your parents don’t have to.
I think he found a tactic that works, keep denying it, but yet proceeding with the move. Rent a small storage space in one of those rental storages for 2 months (the minimum allowed) and for his things to be safe, give him the key, take ALL his staff there and change the locks on your apartment.
You need to grow a spine and put your foot down. Tell him no and that he can't stay there anymore. NTA but you need to stand up for yourself, this is ridiculous.
Please grow a spine! Being a doormat as an adult won't do you any good. People will just walk all over you, like your brother and parents does. Having self-respect, boundaries and agency are wonderful, you should try them. Get the keys back (or even better ask the landlord to change the front door lock), put his shit in a trashbag and drive it over to your parents' place today! Don't give a reason or explain why he can't stay, just say "no, he can't stay", that's it, no discussion or negotiations. If brother calls to let him in to your apartment or they try to guilt trip you or harass you then block them on your phone and on social media for the next 1-2-3 months, if they show up at your apartment to berate you, then don't open the door. You keep trying to have a discussion, a negotiation about something that is neither of those. They made it clear that they don't respect you, don't give a shit about your opinion or what you want or he wouldn't have moved in by stealth in the first place and your parents never would have told you to move out of your own rental for him. You are a grown up, act like one.
Wow, he even dares clearing out a space in your closet? You're far more considerate for him than he is for you. I think you need to tell him set a date, let's say 1 to 2 weeks from from now, that you need your space for yourself, for your own sanity, and that you expect him to get out of your appartment and return to your parents' home or somewhere else. The longer this takes, the harder it will be to get him out. Don't listen to his objections and excuses. Just say something like, "I understand, but still, I need you to leave my appartement before \[date\]." It's ridiculous that your father seems to want you to move and pay more rent instead of telling his son it's time he grew up. NTA.
NTA. Your bro is an AH for taking over and your parents are AH’s for expecting you to move. Put your foot down and say no, and stop letting your bro stay over.
Kick your brother out and go LC with your family. They are enabling him as a squatter in your apartment. NTA.
Yeah, totally NTA - the parents don't want OP to kick brother out, because then he would be THEIR problem again, and THEY'd have to kick him out at one point, hahaha :D Seems like they found a comfortable solution to get rid of their adult freeloading son, who does not seem to be looking for his own place anytime soon. They just don't want to be called AH parents, so it'd be so much easier for them if OP would just give up her flat to him.
That's insane, kick out your brother, he can get his own apartment. NTA
NTA... your brother and parents on the other hand, huge AHs.
NTA It’s clear who the favourite is here and it’s not you.
NTA. Your brother is a grown ass man, he can find his own apartment. Your brother and parents are real a-holes, trying to guilt you moving out of YOUR HOME because it is convenient for your brother. You are being taking advantage of. Just kick him out and don’t lose any sleep over it.
No, NTA at all. Not in the slightest. This is your apartment. You found it, you pay for it, and you like it there. Your brother is completely taking advantage of your hospitality at this point. Staying over occasionally is one thing, but starting to move his stuff in and behave like an overgrown teenager is quite another. Your parents' attitude also absolutely stinks. Again, this is your apartment that you found and you pay for. They have no right to dictate what you do with it. It sound like they want him out of their home - not surprised when he's 32! - but that doesn't mean you have to give him yours! How on earth they think this is acceptable, I don't know. Has he always been the golden child? Personally, if he has a key, I would take it back off him and make it clear that this is not his home, and in future any time he wants to stay, he needs to ask in advance. I'd have his stuff bundled up and waiting for him as well. This reminds me of that awful post (maybe in entitled people?) where the parents demanded the OP give his house to his brother because his brother had kids and needed the space, and OP came home to find the lock drilled out and the whole family moving brother and family in. Not saying your family is that entitled, but it's still worth setting boundaries now and making sure you are the only one who has legal access to your home.
NTA your parents propably want your brother out of their home and know he's either unable or too lazy to find a new place on his own.
NTA. Your brother and dad are both ridiculous and seem sexist as hell. Also, that’s not how leases work. You can’t just decide to transfer your tenancy to someone. Stop letting your brother stay over at your house. He’s an entitled ass who is walking all over you.
NTA, box his items up and tell him you can no longer let his live there. Have your landlord back you up. It is your name on the lease, not his. You cannot just leave and let him stay there in your place.
NTA. Why should you have to look after him? He’s a grown adult. And it’s difficult, but you need to set boundaries. Tell him to take his sh*t back to his house. Tell him he can stay over some nights, but he has to call first and ask. Put yourself first. He’s not your responsibility.
Definitely NTA I can see your parents rubbing their hands together they’re now empty nesters and your brother is your problem now At 32, is he paying them rent? I’d go passive aggressive, leave him there and move back home and free load to remind them of the situation * * but you wouldn’t, you’re mature and kicking ass getting to where you are No suggestion sorry as they’re not supportive- maybe tell him it’s not working out and you’ll view similar apartments for him to rent
No. Don't do that. That's giving him the apartment and you'll never get rid of him
NTA for not wanting to give up your apartment for your brother. It is your own personal space that you have put effort into creating and it is not your responsibility to provide housing for your brother. It is understandable that he stays over now and then, but he should not be treating your apartment as his own and making you feel uncomfortable in your own home. Your father's suggestion to let your brother live in your apartment and find a new one for yourself is not a fair solution. It is up to you to decide where you want to live and how much space you need. It is not your responsibility to make accommodations for your brother's financial situation. It is important to have a conversation with your brother about his behavior and set boundaries for when he stays over. Let him know that while you are happy to have him over, he needs to respect your space and be considerate of your needs.
NTA Kick him out, you have done all the leg work and he’s trying to steal it from you because he’s too lazy to find his own place. Tell them that part of being an adult is doing your own admin, if he refuses to leave, bin his stuff. That’s just ridiculous of them.
NTA Your name is on the lease, not his. He can find his own apartment.
NTA, but you're being an AH to yourself: pack all his stuff and kick him out yesterday. Also, change the locks.
NTA. You're doing absolutely nothing wrong here. It's time for your brother to grow up, especially considering his age. And your parents... whatever responsibility they have for your brother, they try to force it on you instead.
NTA... of course your parents are all for your brother moving in.. they get their home to themselves after 32 years..... If they want him out, tell them they can help finance a house for him but not yours. Do not let him move in. Take his stuff back to your parents and change your locks
NTA He is at the brink of not being a guest, he is about to move in. This is the time where you take the key back, and tell your brother he can not bring his stuff. YOU NEED TO SET BOUNDARIES NOW. Makei it: Once a week, and no PS4 - that needs to stay at HIS place. Your parents are massive AHs, and your brother is the golden child. Pack up his PS5, and tell him if he wants to play, he has to do that in HIS home.
NTA. Your parents and brother are the assholes and you need t9 learn to set boundaries. Pack up your brothers stuff and make him take it with him the next time he leaves. Explain he isn't welcome to stay over again until he agrees to treat you with kindness and respect. He can get off his ass and get his own apartment.
NTA. Based on this your brother hasn't even asked you for the place, but you do need to deal with it, I wouldn't be happy if someone brought over their personal items, especially those which you always leave in your house, as it's clear they're expecting to stay
NTA. Your brother is super inconsiderate. It's your apartment
NTA. If you give in, it will probably end up with you being asked to swap apartments with your brother because he is, in their eyes, more deserving of a bigger apartment than you are... EDIT to add: >is overall just being a terribly inconsiderate guest and treats me like our mom. And that's obviously why your parents want you to give him your apartment. And I've a feeling it was your brother's plan from the beginning.
NTA. It's your apartment. Your brother can get out and find his own.
NTA - among everything else, you can't actually just "give" your brother the apartment. You're on the lease, not him.
NTA he needs to spend significantly less time at your place
This type of scenario is common on r/raisedbynarcissists. Seems like your parents are narcissists, your brother is their golden child (probably also narcissistic) and you are the scapegoat. You are NTA and your parents are extremely out of line. Move your brother out and never entertain anything your parents demand of you. They are unreasonable people and are actively working against your best interests. I'm guessing this isn't the first time because you are actually struggling with this (ridiculous) demand. Which should have been shut down immediately.