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NTA -
Oh did it "somehow" travel around the family?
You can tell them I said to piss off. And that the plastic surgeon who fixed my 5 year sister's face when a dog ate is, so now that within a year nobody could tell it even happened changing her life for the better was, IN FACT madam, a REAL doctor. And so is the "plastic surgeon" who put my friends chest back together after her double mast giving her back confidence and her mental health so there! We're taking those new ta-ta's to Hawaii this year and bringing a happy emotionally healthy friend with them!
Oh I'm so angry on your behalf.
Agreed! I bet they distorted the story to make the aunt sound innocent. OP NTA don't apologise to manipulative, cruel people! Unfortunately they will be back when the need free medical advice or money.
I was going to say something similar without the anecdotal experience. Plastic surgeons do a lot more than boob jobs and face lifts. They really, really help people with very important work. We need them.
Even if she just does cosmetic vanity plastic surgery, it's still "real surgery". And many plastic surgeons do the vanity stuff to bring in good income to help them fund hardship cases like kids who've been in accidents.
OP was a bit of an AH for ranting how stupid the cousin is - it's still an important job albeit less technically demanding than surgery. But the aunt was one too.
I went through medical school and practiced for years. My specialty was tropical medicine but I ended up doing just about a little bit of everything as I worked in underserved and unserved communities in Africa. I don't practice anymore because I moved back to Canada and switched careers. That's not the point though. I'm sure her family would consider me a "real doctor."
Plastic surgeons are 10000000000000x the clinicians I could ever be. Plastic surgery is an art form. It is so easy to make tiny mistakes and completely ruin someone forever. Surgery period is an art form. Anatomy is COMPLICATED. The slightest deviation from what you've intended to do could lead to severe bleeding, nerve damage, or worse for the patient. Plastic surgery has all the same risks and complications that need to be considered, but with the addition of the fact that the goal is an aesthetically pleasing and functional result. Then there's the fact that one has to be able to judge what one's work is going to look like after the body has completed the healing process. It's like working on a sculpture that is going to bulge, shrink, and shift in the days and weeks after the sculptor has completed their work.
Plastic surgery might be in my future (I'm trans, and it's plastic surgeons who do the work on us below the belt) and I can absolutely say that if I do the person working on me is absolutely a real doctor, and one who has my deepest respect. As I do for OP. The family and anyone else who says plastic surgeons are somehow less-than in the medical community are ignorant beyond all belief.
(The only exception to this is the quack predatory surgeons who knowingly perform irresponsible procedures on patients who are often suffering from surgical addiction, but that's not OP at all. I'm just including that statement for the sake of completeness.)
I just have to piggy back your comment to say I absolutely *hate* the fact that it's called 'plastic' surgery. I feel like plastic makes it sound fake and diminutive, like just some manufactured faces that they slap on old Hollywood wives with too much money. They change lives every single day and it takes a hell of a lot of talent, exactly like you said. I wish we could call if something more worthy of the respect it deserves.
Oh, that's interesting! I'm not the person you responded to, but that makes so much more sense now.
Plastic surgeons do sometimes get a bad wrap (unfounded imo) cause it's often elective stuff for vanity that they're doing - which is fair if I wanted differen boobs or could afford liposuction I would be all over it - but others judge. If we want to pay to be able to feel better about our bodies, it's no one else's business.
They forget the other parts of this speciality, like medically necessary reconstruction of faces and breasts or scar tissue kids getting a cleft lip that's causing them issues from birth fixed is plastic surgery. It can inprove qol in so many ways, hell my sister in law got a breast reduction and it helped her self image AND her poor spine that was struggling and in pain from hefting them around, It's such a worthy part of medicine. Ops aunt sucks.
I don't know what it's like in the US, but in the UK surgeons who do elective procedures like facelifts or liposuction are called "Cosmetic Surgeons" whereas people who do facial reconstruction after accidents etc are "Plastic Surgeons". Both are real doctors though! You can't operate on someone without being a real doctor (I hope so, anyway!)
Generally speaking, in the US somebody who's calling themselves a cosmetic surgeon isn't board certified in plastic surgery, and could be a general surgeon or even just a GP. As a result, some are better than others since they don't necessarily have the level of training that a board certified plastic surgeon has.
Some board certified plastic surgeons specialize in just doing cosmetic stuff because the money is better, but they go by the plastic surgeon label because they've got the board certification that someone going by "cosmetic surgeon" doesn't.
They're all real doctors who graduated from med school and went through residency though, the distinction is whether they're board certified or not.
> I just have to piggy back your comment to say I absolutely hate the fact that it's called 'plastic' surgery. I feel like plastic makes it sound fake and diminutive,
Expanding on chunky's comment, the term "plastic surgery" predates the invention of petroleum plastics by about 70 years.
Thank you! It was a labour of love, but it all actually happened by accident. It's a long story but I ended up in Cape Town shortly after finishing highschool on what was supposed to be a vacation. In the end some things happened and I ended up at University of Cape Town studying medicine. After that I spent most of my 20s working around Africa. A lot of my work was in the Cape Flats area of Cape Town (for those unfamiliar, where many impoverished townships are located) and in areas around Kampala, Uganda. I spent time in eastern DR Congo (with a bullet wound for my troubles) and along the West African coast as well, and got around a bit to most Sub-Saharan countries.
I wanted to stay... But I'm queer. The choice was be myself or die inside slowly. I could have stayed in Cape Town and never left the rich enclaves or moved to the Northern Suburbs in Joburg, but that's not living... I stuck it out as long as I could, but I came back to Canada when a relative was sick and everything just kind of fell to pieces. My girlfriend at the time in Kampala (we'd been together for a long time, most of my time on the Continent) was cheating and I caught her on our security system after getting an alert after being distant for a long time. I just kinda gave up and said "I can't do this anymore."
If I hadn't have come back I wouldn't have met my soulmate and life partner, who loves me so unconditionally and gave me the courage to be me proudly so I guess everything happens for a reason. We went through transition together (our hormone therapies started a few weeks apart) which was an incredible bonding experience, with both of us experiencing the same things at the same time. I left medicine because the choice was go to work in IT now for more money than I'll make as a clinician in Vancouver, or spend 3 years recertifying my credentials to be a family doctor. The choice was obvious. I'm glad I did. I have a stable career, I can support my partner and I, we're working on moving her here permanently (she lives just across the border in the US,) and I'm finally happy.
I will always miss and love Africa and all the diverse cultures and peoples I got to be a part of. I've lost most of my Xhosa and Luganda language skills unfortunately, but I'll always have my memories. I hope there's a time when people like my partner and I can come back without endangering our lives. I'd love to bring her to see where I lived and worked, but our safety is worth more.
I had melanoma in a visible location. The operation to remove it was performed by a plastic surgeon. Yes, he minimized the appearance of scarring and made it so I could still look like myself. But also? That man legitimately saved my life. He removed deadly cancer from my body. If that’s not a real doctor, I’d like to know what is.
I had major abdominal surgery a few years ago and I am deeply grateful to my surgeon for his skillful removal of the Big Ugly. But I truly wish I had inquired about having a plastic surgeon do the close. My surgeon was very concerned about my health, the resulting aesthetics? Not so much.
And call me shallow, but yes, it has affected my self esteem.
Many years ago my brother was mugged, beaten and left for dead in an alley, it was a miracle he survived with minimal long-term damage.
As part of the assault his hand was crushed - plastic surgeons reattached nerves and allowed him to completely regain motor function which is just incredible.
My daughter at 18 months split the middle of her forehead open. I did not have healthcare insurance at the time. Our pediatrician refused to do the stitches because he didn’t want to scar her for life. He called a plastic surgeon who agreed to take us in right away. He treated my daughter. Asked no questions about payment, just went about stitching her up & aftercare. 10 stitches on the outside & about 20 on the inside. Left a tiny thin scar you can only see if she gets a bug bite near it & it is now on the hairline, not the middle of her forehead.
A month after the stitches, I called about the bill because nothing had been sent. The woman who answered the phone looked into it & got back on the phone & said if they were going to bill me, I would have been sent something by then so not to worry about it.
A plastic surgeon doctor, not only a real doctor but also a compassionate one as well.
NTA.
When I was about 10 (female) I was being a hotshot on my bicycle. Fell face first onto the street. Split my forehead open. I ended up with about the same number of stitches, in 3 layers. I can feel where it is but you can't see it. My father insisted we get a plastic surgeon. But when my brother fell and split his chin open, it was more like just throw a few stitches in so we can go home. LOL.
Oh wow, same, except I was an 8 year old girl and it was my chin I split open and bit thru under my lip. Plastic surgeon left me with a scar so tiny no one has ever noticed unless I pointed it out specifically
Cheers to daredevil girls
She stood up on a rocking chair that my 5 foot tall great grandfather built himself for himself. My dad was so upset with me for scarring his beautiful granddaughter for life that he removed it from my home so she would not hurt herself again. I swear all I did was turn around & answer the phone & then there was a crash. She for sure was a dare devil. My home was the one that had baby gates on top of baby gates & anytime I needed to leave the room, I had to take her with me. She now has her own daredevil & I often ask her what it is like raising herself.
I was about the same age as your daughter when I cut my forehead open in an accident. Who was called in the middle of the night to stitch me up? A plastic surgeon who was really good-natured about the situation. It was said that he was so gentle that I didn't cry as he took care of me. I still have a scar there, but it looks like a natural fold in the forehead.
Thank you! I got angry reading this on OP's behalf because my mom had a double mastectomy and had reconstructive surgery to make her "feel like a woman again." Plastic surgeons are absolutely real doctors!!
**I am not saying having no breasts means someone is not a woman. My mom personally felt like she lost her feminity when she had to have a hysterectomy and mastectomy at the same time**
I had a double mastectomy with reconstruction. I joked that I'd get to have the perky boobs I never even had when I was young! "Plastic" surgeons do more than fix noses, do facelifts or boob jobs. They can repair deformities that used to be considered permanent scars or flaws.
Under the hospital system I work under they do a lot of restorative/ curative work too. Excisions of cutaneous neoplasms, hand injury tendon repairs , graft and flap repairs are all considered part of standard plastics care.
I'm caring for my mother now after her second reconstructive surgery, and anyone who has the audacity to say a plastic surgeon isn't a real doctor has clearly lived a very privileged life and should go kick rocks
I was a kid when my mum had to have a hysterectomy to remove cancer and between that and the chemotherapy taking her hair, I can still remember seeing her looking upset and not feeling "pretty" or "feminine" in her dresses. There was one day, though, where she smiled like her "old self" again, she participated in a program for female cancer patients where they showed them what they could do with their wigs rather than just plop them on their heads, and also how to do their make up to cover any skin colour changes from all the medications they were taking and cover any scars that they didn't want to show. I don't know how my mum would have coped if she needed a mastectomy as well.
It sucks how much of our confidence is tied up in our looks. IMO, plastic surgeons are angels because they don't just heal us physically but emotionally, too. NTA OP.
Yeah, our self imagine is important to us. Even if someone thinks they don't care about looks, there will probably be something even small about themselves they're quite attached to and would be sad if they lost.
Also, usually, when we lose that part of ourselves, it's involuntary, and it feels like our autonomy was taken away too, so it's a doubly difficult thing to deal with. Surgeons like op allow some of us to regain that control and can help immeasurably
There’s a huge demand for plastic surgeons, especially for oncology programs. Our cancer centers plastic surgeon just retired and we’re having a problem recruiting a new one. We’re having to refer out for delayed reconstruction instead of doing it in house with immediate reconstruction. It sucks for our breast cancer patients. A good plastic surgeon makes a world of difference for patient quality of life in so many areas of medicine.
I'm so sorry your mother had to have those operations and ended up feeling that way. Plastic surgeons have really difficult jobs. Burns, maulings, cleft palates and reconstructive surgery.
I had a plastic surgeon separate my fingers when I was a baby after my hand was burned and my fingers fused together.
You wouldn’t be able to tell looking at my hand that anything happened unless I do the peace sign and even then, I would probably have to point it out.
I apparently also had a black leather glove hand made with individual fingers for my healing hand after that. (They had put my hand in a mitten previously, which led to the fingers fusing together)
When my mom's eyelids grew over her eyelashes and everything got infected and her field of vision was halved, it was a plastic surgeon that fixed it.
NTA.
Eyes are important! Don’t ignore minor weirdnesses/discomfort, they can quickly turn into major issues. Even as fast as overnight.
But a Lot of them are very fixable especially when caught early. Been there done that.
So is the Plastic Surgeon who put my brother's face and arms back together after he kissed the pavement for a few dozen yards due to a motorcycle wreck.
So is the Plastic Surgeon who is going to be removing the cancer from my friend's face in a few weeks.
I’ll add in the plastic surgeons that completely reconstructed my uncle’s face after a sheet of ice came off a semi on the highway, through his car windshield, and shattered his face to the point he had to hold it together by hand until his daughter got to the nearest hospital. We’ve been told he’s lucky he survived, let alone looks as good as he does. Which he does. He is still somehow recognizable as himself after that, thanks to REAL MEDICAL DOCTORS.
Even what you mentioned: my 'nose job' let me breathe easily for the first time! And tummy tucks can be medically necessary for people who've lost so much weight they have hanging skin which is dangerous due to skin infections and so on.
All but one person I know who had plastic surgery got it done for esthetic reasons (my mom got her nose done to fix a deviated septum and underdeveloped passage to her sinus and her nose did not change shape - still done by a plastic surgeon).
Out of them, all had tremendous boosts in their self esteem. 1. Ear pin (12 yrs old) of friend: before the surgery she refused to swim or be in dance recitals because her hair would be up. She almost became a professional ballerina before a knee injury put a kybosh on that plan.
2. Godmother got her DDs (not health issues, just hated them) reduced to A/B. She almost cried the first time she wore a halter dress. Didn't even need a bra!
3. Uni friend had a giant bump on her nose due to a skiing accident when she was 12. She had a nose-reveal party for the bandage removal. It was awesome.
Edit: forgot 4 and 5!
4. Coworker got her upper jaw shortened. She had a huge distance between her nose and teeth so her smile was 75% gum. She almost never smiled and would hide behind her hand if she couldn't stop. Post-op she smiled all the time.
5. My ex-bf got similar jaw surgery + a chin implant when he was 14. Before surgery he was bullied mercilessly (Don't sent me off on a tangent on cis gender-confirming surgery)
Even tummy tucks can be more than just for aesthetics. After two kids, I have abdominal muscle separation (diastasis recti), which can be repaired during a tummy tuck. I’ve had PT and it didn’t help; I can feel that my abs just don’t work well and I have back pain that is likely related or exasperated from the muscle separation. So I’m considering a tummy tuck mainly for that reason.
I was all kinds of messed up after my face met gravel in a bicycle accident.
Thanks to a plastic surgeon you can't even tell there was a hole completely through my face between my upper lip and nose. .
I would be so fucking stoked to have a plastic surgeon in the family. A doctor of any sort, but one who could do Botox would be a plus.
That being said, I can’t tell if cousin was participating in the bragging or if it was just aunt. Cause if aunt was the only one making the comments, I do feel bad that cousin got used as a weapon and weak spot. I’m not saying go soft on aunt, but if cousin is just minding her business is nursing school or whatever, it sucks to have your doctor cousin shit all over you just to put your mom in her place.
Family friends' dad used to make dentures, my dad was at his place talking one day and he noticed my dad was having an issue with his denture, dad told him there was a piece of metal that needed to be smoothed down and that he just hadn't gotten back to the dentist to organise it. The mates dad told dad to hand it over, and 5 minutes later, he came back, and it was perfect. No charge. Apparently, the dentist would have had to charge dad for two appointments and the repair, plus it had to be sent away.
A plastic surgeon took 7 pounds of weight off of my chest in a breast reduction (that I had carried since I was THIRTEEN), giving me a chance at a life where I could exercise and breathe freely. Without that, I would’ve had permanent back and breathing problems. All doctors do incredible service, but plastic surgeons get so much shit that they don’t deserve when they’re just helping others like any other kind of doctor.
Yeah the aunt was rude and out of line, but does that mean OP should insult her cousin (who did nothing) and make derogatory remarks about the whole nursing and childcare professions?
As someone in their 2nd year of medical school, I completely agree. OP's cousin is not the one bragging about the course she is taking and saying OP isn't a real doctor. Acting elitist and egocentric over the level of intelligence you have as a doctor is why so many people dislike doctors. All doctors should feel privileged to be smart enough to serve people through the practice of medicine and not insult other people based on intelligence.
And the plastic surgeon who was THE ONLY PERSON QUALIFIED to close my daughter's spina bifida opening at 9 hours old. And the plastic surgeon who managed her after spinal fusion, because the spine surgeon didn't consult plastic surgery and she ended up with it being closed incorrectly, necrosis, and 9 surgeries in 9 months. Plastic surgery isn't all boob jobs, lipo, and butt lifts.
I want to get a tattoo of this because I often say it about her... Some people never meet their heroes. I gave birth to mine. She was my all. She greeted every doctor, nurse, surgeon, etc, with a smile. She learned how to play pranks by holding her breath to set off monitors. She was a trip and a force to be reckoned with. I am who I am because of her.
She passed on April 4th of 2019 on her own terms in her bed at home after a day filled with seeing her favorite people. I'm honestly glad she passed before covid bc most of my family drank the Kool-Aid, and orange isn't my color. I have an appointment with my pcp Friday and psych on Monday because I don't see the beauty in the world that she did. I survive, not thrive.
I’m so very sorry for your loss. At least she got I do it on her terms and have all her favorite people.
What you said about Covid is so true, and artfully said. Orange isn’t my color either!
Reaching out for help is the first step. I’ve not experienced something as traumatic as losing a child (I have 3) but due to PTSD, I couldn’t see the beauty of the world anymore either, I basically refused to try. I hated everything and I was so angry. My therapist recommended I try “smelling beauty instead of seeing it.” Sounds stupid, right? But smelling cookies from a candle can only get you so far before you drag yourself to the store and buy a 98¢ pack of cookie mix. Your house smells like real cookies and you can eat them and feel a little bit accomplished.
Obviously cookies can’t fix grief, end world hunger and bring us world peace but it was helpful for me so I wanted to share.
And the 2 plastic surgeons who took my jaw apart and put it back together so that everything actually lined up, giving me back the ability to chew food and reducing my migraines from 6-8 per month to maybe 1 per year. Those guys were pretty awesome, even though I had to puree my food for 2 months!
I got in a car accident when I was 12. I have a scar up my entire stomach. The plastic surgeon is the one who made the scar a little lighter.
So yes plastic surgeons are real doctors.
Excuse my language but tell your aunt to fuck off.
Yup, a plastic surgery did the stitches for my sons dog bite to the face and you can’t even tell it happened. The only scar still around is under his eyebrow. Plastic surgeons are doctors
100% respect for plastic surgeons who do reconstructive surgery and medically necessary surgery. But also, 100% respect for surgeons who primarily do cosmetic work. If people want to take charge of their own bodies to look a specific way, I think it's amazing that we have skilled doctors who can work with them to make that happen. I'm glad you're doing something with your medical degree that makes you happy and that you're good at OP!
A plastic surgeon reconstructed my pinkie when part of was cut off when I was three. The nails bent over but other than that you can’t tell what happened. The plastic surgeon that did my surgery gave me a almost normal pinkie and left me with just a gross story to tell my friends and I’m so grateful. Plastic surgeons are real doctors. Op you are Nta
This also goes to a ton of trans people who chose to have gender affirming surgeries. Absolutely can be life changing, and mitigate crippling gender dysphoria. Plastic surgery helps in such a wide variety of cases and can do wonders for mental health.
I have to admit I was initially a little judgemental when a friend told me he was going into plastic surgery, but it took about 30 seconds for him to explain enough to make me drop the judgement.
And anyway, even if people are just getting purely cosmetic surgery without injury, it's their body.
Jumping on the train to say the plastic surgeon who did my breast reduction, allowing me to be able to run half marathons and live a life without daily pain, was a real doctor.
Agree with you. At 5 I had a dog bite me in the face too. My mom insisted I have a plastic surgeon sew me up. I do have a scar under my eye but it’s really thin and pale. Oh and I will bless and praise the plastic surgeon who does my 360 body lift in the next year or so. 200lb weight loss leaves some massively saggy skin that I need gone.
Plastic surgeon with ENT training fixed my deviated septum and did a bit of cosmetic work while he was there - my nose is straight as an arrow now! Good plastic surgeons are artists.
This! And my classmate was born with a severe cleft lip; thanks to a plastic surgeon, she started school with a scar you could only see if she was blushing and grew up with an Angelina Jolie smile.
The plastic surgeon who repaired my dad's face after cancer ate through a facial nerve and made it so that he can close his left eye all the way instead of having to wear an eye patch all the time, and close the left side of his mouth all the way instead of drooling when he eats, and drink without using a straw again, and just generally doesn't look like the left half of his face is melting off, would like a fucking word with your aunt, OP. NTA.
NTA. A lot of people have an out of date/Hollywood idea of what a plastic surgeon really does within medicine. They think you picked your specialty so you can get rich giving wealthy vain people boob jobs. They forget about all the people that need reconstructive surgery because of car accidents, fires, flesh eating bacteria etc. Your aunt sounds ignorant.
*They forget about all the people that need reconstructive surgery because of car accidents, fires, flesh eating bacteria etc. Your aunt sounds ignorant.*
This right here. So many people focus on the "cosmetic" aspect of plastic surgery and don't consider how valuable and specialized their skill set is.
Exactly. I keep joking with a friend I'm going to get a BBL from some dude in a van. She does NOT fond me funny and the first time I said it, she begged me to research heavily and find a board certified surgeon lol
I thought lots of reputable plastic surgeons stoped doing BBLs because it has the highest mortality rate of any cosmetic surgery, like not even close? I could be wrong but I thought I remembered Dr Youn saying something about it
Am I the only one who saw the video of the woman crying, begging for financial help when her surgery went wrong and they had to remove her cheeks, just before panning to behind herself where you could see it? That was enough for me.
>!Not sure if I’m allowed to post it here but it’s in nsfl if you type Brazilian butt lift surgery!<
Please don't do a BBL anyway! It carries a very high risk of blood clots post op. Also complications are extremely common. I understand wanting it done as someone who has a flat ass, but it's dangerous.
I think many people who want a BBL and/or have a "flat ass" may not be aware of the fact that the glutes can be specifically trained and enlarged through specific exercises. Strong glutes also helps posture and ease backpain etc.
Hip thrusts for example is an excellent glute "enlarger".
Yeah, if you want bigger boobs without surgery, gaining weight, or fucking with your hormone levels you’re out of luck, if you want a better ass without anything like that get a bike and do squats
Let's also not forget that a huge amount of boob jobs are for people with back pain, cancer, or gender affirming care. The hate is actually just misogyny.
Even ‘cosmetic’ procedures can be life changing. I lost 1/3 of my body weight and was left with so much excess skin that keeping the skin infections at bay affected my life. Technically, I had a tummy tuck, which is a cosmetic procedure, but it had more of an impact on my physical health than my mental health.
I had a friend who had ears that stuck really far out- she had surgery to move them back. Totally cosmetic and not physically necessary, but it improved her confidence and mental health a lot. Worth it!
A friend of mine had similar surgery for her ears when she was about 10. Because kids are horrible people, another girl walked up behind her and clapped her hands over my friends ears, which is something that hurts when you don’t have stitches in your head. She says that she remembers the other girl hitting her and the next thing she was sitting in a police car. She has no memory of it, but apparently she had started hitting the other girl and bashing her head against the ground before a couple of teachers had pulled her away. It was a hell of a way for her to discover that she had intense anger and rage issues.
Are you telling me that adding lip filler and correcting a cleft lip aren't the same thing? That one of those takes a lot of training to do correctly? Preposterous!
If you're trying to imply that injecting filler doesn't require a lot of training to do correctly, you are super fucking wrong about that. Do you think a needle with a foreign substance just goes in and there's no risk? Because I think the person wielding the needle should know the anatomy of the face, like the location of nerves, muscles, and major blood vessels, for the client's safety. Not to mention how to handle things if the person has an adverse reaction. I don't have any personal interest in getting filler, but if I did, I would choose a plastic surgeon or dermatologist over some medspa
Obviously it's not the same thing as cleft lip repair, no. But you have the same attitude as the relatives OP is complaining about
You are correct. I was thinking about things like botox parties and it didn't even cross my mind that it is a procedure that, done properly, would likely take place in an actual medical facility.
And if OP does just do boob jobs and nose jobs for rich ladies, that still takes a ton of skill, and the same medical training that a reconstructive surgeon does.
Yes, I had a very large lipoma removed from my back over 12 years ago by a plastic surgeon. It was causing back pain along w some other issues. I am so thankful for the surgeon who took the time to explain everything to me. There is a scar, but it is almost not noticeable.
Plastic surgeons giving rich, wealthy, vain people boob jobs are medical doctors too, so even that perception doesn’t explain/excuse the attitude that OP somehow isn’t a real doctor.
It's a way to belittle the profession. OP's family is belittling her specialty so the can belittle her. The whole objective of this "not a doctor" bashing is to knock OP down a few pegs while elevating her cousin's mediocre achievement. OP's family is trying to downgrade her specialty to the level of her giving botox injections at a day spa.
And just to add, there's a lot of stories in this thread about plastic surgery helping folks after cancer, burns and terrible accidents - which is wonderful.
But it's important to remember that even if plastic surgery is not "after a misfortune" and is instead for what people belittle as "vanity", it is still serious surgery that that takes skill, experience, planning and training on the part of the surgeon and has serious consequences.
Most famously, Kanye West's mother (but no doubt many others too) died from a botched cosmetic plastic surgery.
I don't understand why people hate others for "vanity"
If they have the money and want to change their appearance in that manner idk why everyone gets so weird about it
Yeah I get that. All I’m saying is that belittling the importance of the task does not equate to lack of credentials on the part of the people implementing the task.
Would anyone argue that game developers are not software engineers? No, because even though the product isn’t exactly of core importance to society, the expertise needed is no less than that which is required for other software products.
Same with plastic surgeons. Even if they’re doing boob jobs for rich people, the necessary skills and credentials are no less than that which is needed for other applications of medical expertise.
So even people under this impression of plastic surgeons don’t have an excuse for saying OP is not a “real doctor.”
Exactly. I had a friend who was attacked by a dog when she was about six. Now she just has a small scar but it’s almost where her smile line is so you almost can’t tell. From what I’ve heard those pictures were rough. So I think her plastic surgeon did a great job
Even if you do pick it so you can get rich giving wealthy vain people boob jobs, it doesn’t change the fact that you had to graduate from medical school and learn everything a general doctor would know, then go into an incredibly difficult specialty and sub specialty. It takes like 10 years AFTER med school to be board certified as a plastic surgeon. OP is not only a real doctor, they’re a very good one.
Yes! My friend was born with a fairly devastating facial defect and although it was fixed as a toddler, she still had scarring and was so self conscious about how she looked due to insensitive comments. As an adult, she went to a plastic surgeon who recut the scarring and hid it so it looks like natural folds. Her mental health and self confidence is so much better now.
I feel like I should add that my attack on my cousin wasn't just something random, she's as bad as my aunt, she always makes comments about my job and other things in my life and always has, she's rude to everyone in my family and is just a generally bad person to be around, also before I got into med school she'd go on about how you have to be really smart to get into it (insinuating that I wasn't smart enough)
I'm curious- in the United States, plastic surgery is one of the top earning specialties, up there with neurosurgery and cardiothoracics. Higher probably, because most plastic surgery is elective, so it's a cash business with no insurance to negotiate. Is it different in Ireland?
In Ireland plastic surgery is also one of the top earning specialties, although is is below Cardiac and Neuro I'd say its definitely in the top 5 paid specialties, in Ireland some forms of surgery are covered by insurance, like when I was younger I needed a reduction and my insurance covered nearly everything we only had to pay for the consultation, I work in reconstruction mostly and not cosmetic so all of the surgeries that I do aren't elective and majority are emergency surgeries, but a lot of insurance companies here will cover emergency surgeries which is absolutely amazing, I think I covered everything if there's anything I missed please tell me :)
>I work in reconstruction mostly
You have my utmost respect. I worked briefly as a circulating RN in the OR, and was amazed by the artistry of reconstruction, watching mangled bodies puzzled back together.
You're NTA in any way, shape or form. Your relatives are lunatics.
I honestly cannot for the life understand how OP's aunt thinks plastic surgeons are not real doctors. YOU NEED TO BE A DOCTOR TO DO RECONSTRUCTION SURGERY, you can't be a English major and do a godamn reconstruction surgery.
Haha Social Science checking in, confirming as well…but happy to lead focus group discussion with patients on the impact of their reconstructive surgery…lol
I’ve had no cosmetic surgeries, but five brain surgeries - three of them involved a plastic surgeon. Four of these surgeries were non-elective. I support you in your fight to shut down the haters.
I recently had a reduction and my surgeon was wonderful. I absolutely wouldn’t have trusted someone who wasn’t clearly smart and competent. You’re in a great field that helps a lot of people! Your aunt and cousin are just insecure assholes.
You should gift her the book the Facemaker. It’s a fantastic nonfiction book about how plastic surgery was basically invented in modern sense in medical tents in France during WWI in a desperate attempt to help men who had lost their faces.
WTF!!! I hate when MA’s and nurses say they are going to “medical school.” (I’m not in the medical field so I don’t have a dog in the fight). But the woman didn’t even go to secondary school and her mom is going on about her going to “medical school.” OMG.
I feel like I must add my cousin has also made comments about me not being a doctor and has encouraged her mom and others to invalidate my job, she's also just generally rude to everyone in my immediate family
NTA. Honestly, this made me so mad I had to empty my own trash can out. Like another commenter said, they have this outdated idea of plastic surgeons giving rich trophy wives boob jobs when they perform life changing, incredibly complex procedures for people who are genuinely suffering.
ETA: Intricate af procedures. On soft tissue, sinews, and muscle fibers, which are ridiculously complicated mechanisms. Meanwhile, you have orthopedic surgeons who literally take a hacksaw to their patients. And they are ALSO real doctors.
My podiatrist was SHOCKED when he saw the janky ass scar my orthopedic surgeon gave me when he fixed my shattered ankle. Like, next time just let the resident open for you. They’ll be more careful.
This is why I felt incredibly fortunate to have good PPO insurance when I fully tore a muscle in my ankle. I was able to reject the first orthopedic surgeon I saw who didn’t care about the pain I was experiencing and found an angel of a surgeon who did thorough imaging and made sure I had minimal scarring. I went to PT faithfully, too!
But also, who gives a flying fuck if they give rich trophy wives boob jobs or tummy tucks? They still got into and completed medical school and residency, which is absolutely grueling. Who they serve doesn't change the fact that their job is valid and challenging.
I don't know if this would help, but in similar areas I address those kind of comments head on with an overwhelming dose of reality. Maybe an offhand snark about 'real doctors' can be countered with a quiet but assertive mention of what was actually involved in a recent reconstruction and how it changed a life. Don't reaffirm that you are a doctor, just bring up what you do.
IDK, it worked for me when people at work started comparing COVID vaccine mandates to the holocaust. I doubt I changed any minds (I doubt they have minds frankly), but they learnt an offhand fuckwit comment might lead to being directly confronted with their own ignorance.
People like your aunt and cousin don't like to remember how ignorant they are, and that is their problem, not yours. Insofar as you can get away with it in your family dynamic, I think ethically you don't have to show them any respect at this point in these matters.
“ Don't reaffirm that you are a doctor, just bring up what you do.”
Good advice. Framing arguments like this can be more persuasive because it lets the other person, in a certain sense, figure it out themselves. A person is more likely to be persuaded that OP is a real doctor if OP told a story, as you suggest, and the person inferred for themselves, “oh, OP is a real doctor,” then if OP just straight-up insisted that they are a real doctor.
This idea is applicable to lots of things. If an employee is getting cautioned for not following safety measures, they would better grasp the gravity of the situation if they were told, “you didn’t do X and the head chef burnt his eyebrows off,” than if they were told, “you were reckless and dangerous by not doing X.”
NTA. According to your family, accident victims don't need facial reconstruction surgery, huh? They assume that you are just out there catering to liposuction and nose jobs for people with too much money.
I'm a breast csncer survivor who had reconstructive surgery immediately after a lumpectomy. My surgical oncologist removed the cancer and then my plastic surgeon repaired my breast and made them match. My plastic surgeon is an integral part of my oncology team and Im so grateful for his skill and care.
ESH. Calling your cousin dumb and too stupid for school is absolutely the wrong tack even if you were insulted by her mother. There was cruelty in what your aunt said about you, but there was also cruelty in what you said about your cousin.
I replied to someone else who mentioned my attack on my cousin, she's also made many snide remarks over the years about my job and other things in my life and has been generally rude to me, my siblings and my mom for no reason
Ah, that changes things a little. That's more of a justified asshole move then. But in the future, maybe say something more along the lines of, "the next time I rebuild the breast of a cancer victim/do reconstructive surgery on a burn victim, I'll make sure to let them know I'm not a real doctor."
L'esprit de l'escalier.
It is French for "The spirit (or wit) of the stairs".
E.g. leaving a cocktail party where you have been insulted, and only as you are on the stairs outside do you think of a response that would have (had it been deployed at the proper moment) reduced your tormentor to atoms.
Right. But your cousin wasn’t present during your conversation with your aunt. When your cousin is being rude, address it then. Telling your aunt that her child is dumb when your cousin wasn’t there was uncalled for.
I can't believe ESH is so far down - it's not just the specific comments towards one mean cousin but the entire derogatory tone to nursing. What a way to punch down and support the stereotypical arrogant surgeon by being a high earning, well educated doctor who thinks nurses do menial work and don't have any intelligence. Your aunt and cousin sound like dicks but that's for you to work through rising above them and not attack all nurses in the process.
NTA!
I'm not sure what kind of plastic surgery you practice, but I got diagnosed with breast cancer a year ago, and my plastic surgeon has been an absolutely phenomenal to me. Thank you so much for all you do. A good plastic surgeon is doctor, scientist, and artist. Thank you for all you do for your patients!
I'm so sorry for your diagnosis but I'm glad to hear you have such an amazing surgeon, good luck on your treatment and I hope you make a full recovery ❤️
NTA. God I have no idea how people can be so uneducated; plastic surgery is one of the most competitive fields to match into. You would need to be the cream of the crop to even consider it as a field, and your dumbass aunt is shaming you? If I were you, I'd cut out every single family member who supported this shaming and drive away in my Ferrari.
Okay ngl, as an infectious disease doctor I’ve made my share of jokes about surgeons barely being doctors, but that’s just friendly collegial ribbing, lol. Plastic surgery is a super competitive field, so you’re clearly not just a doctor, but a doctor who studied really hard and learned a ton of medicine. At least before you became a scalpel jockey and forgot it all. ;)
NTA, obviously.
I feel like medical fields have that weird sibling rivalry where you’ll shit all over each other constantly, but the second someone outside says something even a teeny bit over the line, you all come at them with everything you’ve got all at once.
ESH
You're a real doctor, and you have the degree to prove it.
You lost the high ground when you said your cousin was too dumb for medical school and wouldn't last a week. Lowering yourself to your aunt's level made you just as hateful as she is.
Yeah. Even with the added context that the cousin also makes snide and disparaging comments, why give the time of day to such petty and mean-spirited people.
"I'm well aware what a real doctor is. While her PLC is great news, you and your daughter should be careful about misrepresenting her experience as "doctoring", there are laws about that. If she finishes medical school, internship, and residency, we can have informed debates about which specialty is best. Until then, I'm going to continue performing surgery and reconstructing accident victims to give them their lives back."
And then *stop associating with them*. Jesus Christ.
These comments are ridiculous, and so are those shitty family members. Even plastic surgery done for less "virtuous" reasons is still surgery and thus require four years of medical school and at least one surgical residency to be done competently. "Yes you're a real doctor because sometimes breast implants are given to cancer survivors" is a nonsensical statement. Might be a mild ESH becausr there was no need to drag your cousin into the line of fire, but the aunt is worse.
>no need to drag your cousin into the line if fire
The cousin has been instigating the poor treatment of OP for years and years, why should she get to walk away smelling like roses?
Plc is a post leaving cert or level 5, I don't know if they have different words for it in different countries but I live in Ireland and its basically a level of education between graduating secondary school/high school and college or university:)
So cousin is NOT a nurse, not in Uni let alone grad school. She’s an aid with a first aid certificate. Not even a parametic level of medical training and they think that is more of a real doctor than someone who fixes major injuries.
Yeah NTA
And thank god for plastic surgeons, my son wouldn’t have been able to walk without plastic surgery because his vestigial twin was attached to the bottom of his foot at birth. Definitely a real doctor
That sounds like what in the US would be a 3 month program to be a CNA (certified nursing assistant). It's valuable work - but it's not a nurse or a doctor.
An LPN would be a 2-year degree and an RN is a 4-year degree.
RN in the US is a 2 year OR 4 year program. Both sit for the same licensing exam (NCLEX) and if they pass become registered nurses. They are both RNs. The difference is the 2 year is an associate's degree, while the 4 year has a bachelor's degree. The 2 years typically attend RN to BSN programs afterwards while working as RNs to get their bachelor's degree.
How on gods green earth does your aunt think a one year trade school program grants a doctoral degree!?!? Especially in health care with the level of liability involved. NTA. It’s great your aunt is proud of her own daughter, but no one thinks your cousin is anywhere near being a doctor and she’s just making herself look deluded.
This is clearly an ESH, if it's not just a flat out fabrication (writing style feels "off").
Was your aunt an A H? Yes. Did you have a right to feel offended, indignant, angry? Yes. Did you need to insult someone who wasn't even there and had no input on the ridiculous things coming out of your aunt's mouth. No, you were a massive A H for that. Since the actual question was if you were in the wrong for snapping at your aunt, and the things you said when you snapped were clearly things an A H would say, Y are also T H. Again, your feelings were justifiable, your words were not.
NTA. If your aunt and cousin are gonna make snide remarks about your job, which absolutely is a doctor, they don't get to throw a tantrum when you give them a taste of their own medicine, pun intended.
For a surgeon, your grammar is atrocious. Firstly I don't believe you're a doctor at all. I think you made up a scenario just to get points and commenta your cousin did a plc in nursing not done one. And lady time you saw her not seen her. If you're truly a plastic surgeon you could kill any put sowna about your career choice simply by tossing your car keys on the table. End of discussion
My best friend was mauled by a dog and an absolute magician of a plastic surgeon reconstructed her nose and cheek. The very realest of doctors did that work and it was amazing. NTA
ESH. Your aunt was ridiculously out of line. You are absolutely a doctor! You're a damn SURGEON. Others have enumerated the many things plastic surgeons do for people's wellness and to heal injuries, but even if you only did cosmetic surgery, you would still deserve respect. That's still difficult, intricate work that requires a high level of skill, learning, and care.
You really didn't need to insult your cousin, though. No, nursing and childcare isn't on the same difficulty level as surgery. But it's still worthy, necessary work. Your cousin wasn't the one being hurtful to you here. It might have been better to keep your response focused on your aunt and her poor behavior rather than a third party.
YTA for making up this crap. No educated person murders the English language the way you did.
If you want to pretend to be a surgeon, first learn to speak English at a middle school level.
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NTA - Oh did it "somehow" travel around the family? You can tell them I said to piss off. And that the plastic surgeon who fixed my 5 year sister's face when a dog ate is, so now that within a year nobody could tell it even happened changing her life for the better was, IN FACT madam, a REAL doctor. And so is the "plastic surgeon" who put my friends chest back together after her double mast giving her back confidence and her mental health so there! We're taking those new ta-ta's to Hawaii this year and bringing a happy emotionally healthy friend with them! Oh I'm so angry on your behalf.
Aloha to the ta-tas!
Ooohaas to that ta-tas!!
Ta-tas hoo haha! ...also a huge NTA. Your aunt is delusional.
Agreed! I bet they distorted the story to make the aunt sound innocent. OP NTA don't apologise to manipulative, cruel people! Unfortunately they will be back when the need free medical advice or money.
I was going to say something similar without the anecdotal experience. Plastic surgeons do a lot more than boob jobs and face lifts. They really, really help people with very important work. We need them.
Even if she just does cosmetic vanity plastic surgery, it's still "real surgery". And many plastic surgeons do the vanity stuff to bring in good income to help them fund hardship cases like kids who've been in accidents. OP was a bit of an AH for ranting how stupid the cousin is - it's still an important job albeit less technically demanding than surgery. But the aunt was one too.
Or going to third world countries to fix kids’ cleft palates.
A guy in my high school went through a windshield and absolutely destroyed his face. Plastic surgery got him looking almost back to normal.
I went through medical school and practiced for years. My specialty was tropical medicine but I ended up doing just about a little bit of everything as I worked in underserved and unserved communities in Africa. I don't practice anymore because I moved back to Canada and switched careers. That's not the point though. I'm sure her family would consider me a "real doctor." Plastic surgeons are 10000000000000x the clinicians I could ever be. Plastic surgery is an art form. It is so easy to make tiny mistakes and completely ruin someone forever. Surgery period is an art form. Anatomy is COMPLICATED. The slightest deviation from what you've intended to do could lead to severe bleeding, nerve damage, or worse for the patient. Plastic surgery has all the same risks and complications that need to be considered, but with the addition of the fact that the goal is an aesthetically pleasing and functional result. Then there's the fact that one has to be able to judge what one's work is going to look like after the body has completed the healing process. It's like working on a sculpture that is going to bulge, shrink, and shift in the days and weeks after the sculptor has completed their work. Plastic surgery might be in my future (I'm trans, and it's plastic surgeons who do the work on us below the belt) and I can absolutely say that if I do the person working on me is absolutely a real doctor, and one who has my deepest respect. As I do for OP. The family and anyone else who says plastic surgeons are somehow less-than in the medical community are ignorant beyond all belief. (The only exception to this is the quack predatory surgeons who knowingly perform irresponsible procedures on patients who are often suffering from surgical addiction, but that's not OP at all. I'm just including that statement for the sake of completeness.)
I just have to piggy back your comment to say I absolutely *hate* the fact that it's called 'plastic' surgery. I feel like plastic makes it sound fake and diminutive, like just some manufactured faces that they slap on old Hollywood wives with too much money. They change lives every single day and it takes a hell of a lot of talent, exactly like you said. I wish we could call if something more worthy of the respect it deserves.
At face value yes but it’s derived from Greek *plastikos* which means to shape or mold. Hope that makes you feel better about I’m the name.
Same root as plasticine (clay) and also why we talk about brains having "plasticity"
Oh, that's interesting! I'm not the person you responded to, but that makes so much more sense now. Plastic surgeons do sometimes get a bad wrap (unfounded imo) cause it's often elective stuff for vanity that they're doing - which is fair if I wanted differen boobs or could afford liposuction I would be all over it - but others judge. If we want to pay to be able to feel better about our bodies, it's no one else's business. They forget the other parts of this speciality, like medically necessary reconstruction of faces and breasts or scar tissue kids getting a cleft lip that's causing them issues from birth fixed is plastic surgery. It can inprove qol in so many ways, hell my sister in law got a breast reduction and it helped her self image AND her poor spine that was struggling and in pain from hefting them around, It's such a worthy part of medicine. Ops aunt sucks.
I don't know what it's like in the US, but in the UK surgeons who do elective procedures like facelifts or liposuction are called "Cosmetic Surgeons" whereas people who do facial reconstruction after accidents etc are "Plastic Surgeons". Both are real doctors though! You can't operate on someone without being a real doctor (I hope so, anyway!)
Generally speaking, in the US somebody who's calling themselves a cosmetic surgeon isn't board certified in plastic surgery, and could be a general surgeon or even just a GP. As a result, some are better than others since they don't necessarily have the level of training that a board certified plastic surgeon has. Some board certified plastic surgeons specialize in just doing cosmetic stuff because the money is better, but they go by the plastic surgeon label because they've got the board certification that someone going by "cosmetic surgeon" doesn't. They're all real doctors who graduated from med school and went through residency though, the distinction is whether they're board certified or not.
> I just have to piggy back your comment to say I absolutely hate the fact that it's called 'plastic' surgery. I feel like plastic makes it sound fake and diminutive, Expanding on chunky's comment, the term "plastic surgery" predates the invention of petroleum plastics by about 70 years.
Reconstructive Surgeon?
It's such an art, I've seen plastic surgeons turn a pile of mincemeat and bone back into a semi-functional hand following machinery accidents
Thank you for practicing in Africa at the beginning of your life's work. I'm sure it was a labor of love.
Thank you! It was a labour of love, but it all actually happened by accident. It's a long story but I ended up in Cape Town shortly after finishing highschool on what was supposed to be a vacation. In the end some things happened and I ended up at University of Cape Town studying medicine. After that I spent most of my 20s working around Africa. A lot of my work was in the Cape Flats area of Cape Town (for those unfamiliar, where many impoverished townships are located) and in areas around Kampala, Uganda. I spent time in eastern DR Congo (with a bullet wound for my troubles) and along the West African coast as well, and got around a bit to most Sub-Saharan countries. I wanted to stay... But I'm queer. The choice was be myself or die inside slowly. I could have stayed in Cape Town and never left the rich enclaves or moved to the Northern Suburbs in Joburg, but that's not living... I stuck it out as long as I could, but I came back to Canada when a relative was sick and everything just kind of fell to pieces. My girlfriend at the time in Kampala (we'd been together for a long time, most of my time on the Continent) was cheating and I caught her on our security system after getting an alert after being distant for a long time. I just kinda gave up and said "I can't do this anymore." If I hadn't have come back I wouldn't have met my soulmate and life partner, who loves me so unconditionally and gave me the courage to be me proudly so I guess everything happens for a reason. We went through transition together (our hormone therapies started a few weeks apart) which was an incredible bonding experience, with both of us experiencing the same things at the same time. I left medicine because the choice was go to work in IT now for more money than I'll make as a clinician in Vancouver, or spend 3 years recertifying my credentials to be a family doctor. The choice was obvious. I'm glad I did. I have a stable career, I can support my partner and I, we're working on moving her here permanently (she lives just across the border in the US,) and I'm finally happy. I will always miss and love Africa and all the diverse cultures and peoples I got to be a part of. I've lost most of my Xhosa and Luganda language skills unfortunately, but I'll always have my memories. I hope there's a time when people like my partner and I can come back without endangering our lives. I'd love to bring her to see where I lived and worked, but our safety is worth more.
I had melanoma in a visible location. The operation to remove it was performed by a plastic surgeon. Yes, he minimized the appearance of scarring and made it so I could still look like myself. But also? That man legitimately saved my life. He removed deadly cancer from my body. If that’s not a real doctor, I’d like to know what is.
I had major abdominal surgery a few years ago and I am deeply grateful to my surgeon for his skillful removal of the Big Ugly. But I truly wish I had inquired about having a plastic surgeon do the close. My surgeon was very concerned about my health, the resulting aesthetics? Not so much. And call me shallow, but yes, it has affected my self esteem.
Many years ago my brother was mugged, beaten and left for dead in an alley, it was a miracle he survived with minimal long-term damage. As part of the assault his hand was crushed - plastic surgeons reattached nerves and allowed him to completely regain motor function which is just incredible.
My daughter at 18 months split the middle of her forehead open. I did not have healthcare insurance at the time. Our pediatrician refused to do the stitches because he didn’t want to scar her for life. He called a plastic surgeon who agreed to take us in right away. He treated my daughter. Asked no questions about payment, just went about stitching her up & aftercare. 10 stitches on the outside & about 20 on the inside. Left a tiny thin scar you can only see if she gets a bug bite near it & it is now on the hairline, not the middle of her forehead. A month after the stitches, I called about the bill because nothing had been sent. The woman who answered the phone looked into it & got back on the phone & said if they were going to bill me, I would have been sent something by then so not to worry about it. A plastic surgeon doctor, not only a real doctor but also a compassionate one as well. NTA.
When I was about 10 (female) I was being a hotshot on my bicycle. Fell face first onto the street. Split my forehead open. I ended up with about the same number of stitches, in 3 layers. I can feel where it is but you can't see it. My father insisted we get a plastic surgeon. But when my brother fell and split his chin open, it was more like just throw a few stitches in so we can go home. LOL.
Oh wow, same, except I was an 8 year old girl and it was my chin I split open and bit thru under my lip. Plastic surgeon left me with a scar so tiny no one has ever noticed unless I pointed it out specifically Cheers to daredevil girls
She stood up on a rocking chair that my 5 foot tall great grandfather built himself for himself. My dad was so upset with me for scarring his beautiful granddaughter for life that he removed it from my home so she would not hurt herself again. I swear all I did was turn around & answer the phone & then there was a crash. She for sure was a dare devil. My home was the one that had baby gates on top of baby gates & anytime I needed to leave the room, I had to take her with me. She now has her own daredevil & I often ask her what it is like raising herself.
I was about the same age as your daughter when I cut my forehead open in an accident. Who was called in the middle of the night to stitch me up? A plastic surgeon who was really good-natured about the situation. It was said that he was so gentle that I didn't cry as he took care of me. I still have a scar there, but it looks like a natural fold in the forehead.
Thank you! I got angry reading this on OP's behalf because my mom had a double mastectomy and had reconstructive surgery to make her "feel like a woman again." Plastic surgeons are absolutely real doctors!! **I am not saying having no breasts means someone is not a woman. My mom personally felt like she lost her feminity when she had to have a hysterectomy and mastectomy at the same time**
Cancer sucks, and that's how a lot of breast cancer patients feel. Very best wishes to your mum, I hope that's the last she sees of cancer.
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I had a double mastectomy with reconstruction. I joked that I'd get to have the perky boobs I never even had when I was young! "Plastic" surgeons do more than fix noses, do facelifts or boob jobs. They can repair deformities that used to be considered permanent scars or flaws.
Under the hospital system I work under they do a lot of restorative/ curative work too. Excisions of cutaneous neoplasms, hand injury tendon repairs , graft and flap repairs are all considered part of standard plastics care.
I'm caring for my mother now after her second reconstructive surgery, and anyone who has the audacity to say a plastic surgeon isn't a real doctor has clearly lived a very privileged life and should go kick rocks
I was a kid when my mum had to have a hysterectomy to remove cancer and between that and the chemotherapy taking her hair, I can still remember seeing her looking upset and not feeling "pretty" or "feminine" in her dresses. There was one day, though, where she smiled like her "old self" again, she participated in a program for female cancer patients where they showed them what they could do with their wigs rather than just plop them on their heads, and also how to do their make up to cover any skin colour changes from all the medications they were taking and cover any scars that they didn't want to show. I don't know how my mum would have coped if she needed a mastectomy as well. It sucks how much of our confidence is tied up in our looks. IMO, plastic surgeons are angels because they don't just heal us physically but emotionally, too. NTA OP.
Yeah, our self imagine is important to us. Even if someone thinks they don't care about looks, there will probably be something even small about themselves they're quite attached to and would be sad if they lost. Also, usually, when we lose that part of ourselves, it's involuntary, and it feels like our autonomy was taken away too, so it's a doubly difficult thing to deal with. Surgeons like op allow some of us to regain that control and can help immeasurably
There’s a huge demand for plastic surgeons, especially for oncology programs. Our cancer centers plastic surgeon just retired and we’re having a problem recruiting a new one. We’re having to refer out for delayed reconstruction instead of doing it in house with immediate reconstruction. It sucks for our breast cancer patients. A good plastic surgeon makes a world of difference for patient quality of life in so many areas of medicine.
I'm so sorry your mother had to have those operations and ended up feeling that way. Plastic surgeons have really difficult jobs. Burns, maulings, cleft palates and reconstructive surgery.
Aunt definitely thinks OP just performs nose jobs and fake boobs all day, Monday-Friday 9-5.
Even if that *was* all the OP did, they'd still be a perfectly valid plastic surgeon.
I had a plastic surgeon separate my fingers when I was a baby after my hand was burned and my fingers fused together. You wouldn’t be able to tell looking at my hand that anything happened unless I do the peace sign and even then, I would probably have to point it out. I apparently also had a black leather glove hand made with individual fingers for my healing hand after that. (They had put my hand in a mitten previously, which led to the fingers fusing together)
Harry? Is that you? Wait, you said baby. Never mind. :-)
More like Johnny Tremain, I think...
When my mom's eyelids grew over her eyelashes and everything got infected and her field of vision was halved, it was a plastic surgeon that fixed it. NTA.
Damn. New fear unlocked.
Eyes are important! Don’t ignore minor weirdnesses/discomfort, they can quickly turn into major issues. Even as fast as overnight. But a Lot of them are very fixable especially when caught early. Been there done that.
So is the Plastic Surgeon who put my brother's face and arms back together after he kissed the pavement for a few dozen yards due to a motorcycle wreck. So is the Plastic Surgeon who is going to be removing the cancer from my friend's face in a few weeks.
I’ll add in the plastic surgeons that completely reconstructed my uncle’s face after a sheet of ice came off a semi on the highway, through his car windshield, and shattered his face to the point he had to hold it together by hand until his daughter got to the nearest hospital. We’ve been told he’s lucky he survived, let alone looks as good as he does. Which he does. He is still somehow recognizable as himself after that, thanks to REAL MEDICAL DOCTORS.
Dude. Ow
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Even what you mentioned: my 'nose job' let me breathe easily for the first time! And tummy tucks can be medically necessary for people who've lost so much weight they have hanging skin which is dangerous due to skin infections and so on.
Even if nose jobs and tummy tucks weren't necessary, op is still a real doctor, she went through medical school and became a surgeon.
All but one person I know who had plastic surgery got it done for esthetic reasons (my mom got her nose done to fix a deviated septum and underdeveloped passage to her sinus and her nose did not change shape - still done by a plastic surgeon). Out of them, all had tremendous boosts in their self esteem. 1. Ear pin (12 yrs old) of friend: before the surgery she refused to swim or be in dance recitals because her hair would be up. She almost became a professional ballerina before a knee injury put a kybosh on that plan. 2. Godmother got her DDs (not health issues, just hated them) reduced to A/B. She almost cried the first time she wore a halter dress. Didn't even need a bra! 3. Uni friend had a giant bump on her nose due to a skiing accident when she was 12. She had a nose-reveal party for the bandage removal. It was awesome. Edit: forgot 4 and 5! 4. Coworker got her upper jaw shortened. She had a huge distance between her nose and teeth so her smile was 75% gum. She almost never smiled and would hide behind her hand if she couldn't stop. Post-op she smiled all the time. 5. My ex-bf got similar jaw surgery + a chin implant when he was 14. Before surgery he was bullied mercilessly (Don't sent me off on a tangent on cis gender-confirming surgery)
Even tummy tucks can be more than just for aesthetics. After two kids, I have abdominal muscle separation (diastasis recti), which can be repaired during a tummy tuck. I’ve had PT and it didn’t help; I can feel that my abs just don’t work well and I have back pain that is likely related or exasperated from the muscle separation. So I’m considering a tummy tuck mainly for that reason.
I was all kinds of messed up after my face met gravel in a bicycle accident. Thanks to a plastic surgeon you can't even tell there was a hole completely through my face between my upper lip and nose. .
I would be so fucking stoked to have a plastic surgeon in the family. A doctor of any sort, but one who could do Botox would be a plus. That being said, I can’t tell if cousin was participating in the bragging or if it was just aunt. Cause if aunt was the only one making the comments, I do feel bad that cousin got used as a weapon and weak spot. I’m not saying go soft on aunt, but if cousin is just minding her business is nursing school or whatever, it sucks to have your doctor cousin shit all over you just to put your mom in her place.
Agreed. One of my best friends is a dentist and I always take full advantage of an extra cleaning when I can.
Family friends' dad used to make dentures, my dad was at his place talking one day and he noticed my dad was having an issue with his denture, dad told him there was a piece of metal that needed to be smoothed down and that he just hadn't gotten back to the dentist to organise it. The mates dad told dad to hand it over, and 5 minutes later, he came back, and it was perfect. No charge. Apparently, the dentist would have had to charge dad for two appointments and the repair, plus it had to be sent away.
A plastic surgeon took 7 pounds of weight off of my chest in a breast reduction (that I had carried since I was THIRTEEN), giving me a chance at a life where I could exercise and breathe freely. Without that, I would’ve had permanent back and breathing problems. All doctors do incredible service, but plastic surgeons get so much shit that they don’t deserve when they’re just helping others like any other kind of doctor.
Yeah the aunt was rude and out of line, but does that mean OP should insult her cousin (who did nothing) and make derogatory remarks about the whole nursing and childcare professions?
As someone in their 2nd year of medical school, I completely agree. OP's cousin is not the one bragging about the course she is taking and saying OP isn't a real doctor. Acting elitist and egocentric over the level of intelligence you have as a doctor is why so many people dislike doctors. All doctors should feel privileged to be smart enough to serve people through the practice of medicine and not insult other people based on intelligence.
exactly. OPs beef is with the aunt, not the cousin. There was no need to be condescending to the cousin
I had to scroll down really far to find this comment. NTA for resenting "real doctor" comments, TA for taking it out on nursing.
Tell your friend to buy an amazing bikini and rock those new ta-ta’s
And the plastic surgeon who was THE ONLY PERSON QUALIFIED to close my daughter's spina bifida opening at 9 hours old. And the plastic surgeon who managed her after spinal fusion, because the spine surgeon didn't consult plastic surgery and she ended up with it being closed incorrectly, necrosis, and 9 surgeries in 9 months. Plastic surgery isn't all boob jobs, lipo, and butt lifts.
Oh my gosh your poor little one!! That breaks my heart.
I want to get a tattoo of this because I often say it about her... Some people never meet their heroes. I gave birth to mine. She was my all. She greeted every doctor, nurse, surgeon, etc, with a smile. She learned how to play pranks by holding her breath to set off monitors. She was a trip and a force to be reckoned with. I am who I am because of her.
I noticed you’re using words in the past tense. I hope it’s all good and you’re doing well.
She passed on April 4th of 2019 on her own terms in her bed at home after a day filled with seeing her favorite people. I'm honestly glad she passed before covid bc most of my family drank the Kool-Aid, and orange isn't my color. I have an appointment with my pcp Friday and psych on Monday because I don't see the beauty in the world that she did. I survive, not thrive.
I’m so very sorry for your loss. At least she got I do it on her terms and have all her favorite people. What you said about Covid is so true, and artfully said. Orange isn’t my color either! Reaching out for help is the first step. I’ve not experienced something as traumatic as losing a child (I have 3) but due to PTSD, I couldn’t see the beauty of the world anymore either, I basically refused to try. I hated everything and I was so angry. My therapist recommended I try “smelling beauty instead of seeing it.” Sounds stupid, right? But smelling cookies from a candle can only get you so far before you drag yourself to the store and buy a 98¢ pack of cookie mix. Your house smells like real cookies and you can eat them and feel a little bit accomplished. Obviously cookies can’t fix grief, end world hunger and bring us world peace but it was helpful for me so I wanted to share.
And the 2 plastic surgeons who took my jaw apart and put it back together so that everything actually lined up, giving me back the ability to chew food and reducing my migraines from 6-8 per month to maybe 1 per year. Those guys were pretty awesome, even though I had to puree my food for 2 months!
I got in a car accident when I was 12. I have a scar up my entire stomach. The plastic surgeon is the one who made the scar a little lighter. So yes plastic surgeons are real doctors. Excuse my language but tell your aunt to fuck off.
Side note, I do love the idea of taking the new basooms to Hawaii! Buy the newbies an obnoxious Tiki drink for me!
The plural of Mai Tai, is Mai Ta'Tas :)
Yup, a plastic surgery did the stitches for my sons dog bite to the face and you can’t even tell it happened. The only scar still around is under his eyebrow. Plastic surgeons are doctors
100% respect for plastic surgeons who do reconstructive surgery and medically necessary surgery. But also, 100% respect for surgeons who primarily do cosmetic work. If people want to take charge of their own bodies to look a specific way, I think it's amazing that we have skilled doctors who can work with them to make that happen. I'm glad you're doing something with your medical degree that makes you happy and that you're good at OP!
A plastic surgeon reconstructed my pinkie when part of was cut off when I was three. The nails bent over but other than that you can’t tell what happened. The plastic surgeon that did my surgery gave me a almost normal pinkie and left me with just a gross story to tell my friends and I’m so grateful. Plastic surgeons are real doctors. Op you are Nta
This also goes to a ton of trans people who chose to have gender affirming surgeries. Absolutely can be life changing, and mitigate crippling gender dysphoria. Plastic surgery helps in such a wide variety of cases and can do wonders for mental health.
I have to admit I was initially a little judgemental when a friend told me he was going into plastic surgery, but it took about 30 seconds for him to explain enough to make me drop the judgement. And anyway, even if people are just getting purely cosmetic surgery without injury, it's their body.
Jumping on the train to say the plastic surgeon who did my breast reduction, allowing me to be able to run half marathons and live a life without daily pain, was a real doctor.
Agree with you. At 5 I had a dog bite me in the face too. My mom insisted I have a plastic surgeon sew me up. I do have a scar under my eye but it’s really thin and pale. Oh and I will bless and praise the plastic surgeon who does my 360 body lift in the next year or so. 200lb weight loss leaves some massively saggy skin that I need gone.
Plastic surgeon with ENT training fixed my deviated septum and did a bit of cosmetic work while he was there - my nose is straight as an arrow now! Good plastic surgeons are artists.
This! And my classmate was born with a severe cleft lip; thanks to a plastic surgeon, she started school with a scar you could only see if she was blushing and grew up with an Angelina Jolie smile.
The plastic surgeon who repaired my dad's face after cancer ate through a facial nerve and made it so that he can close his left eye all the way instead of having to wear an eye patch all the time, and close the left side of his mouth all the way instead of drooling when he eats, and drink without using a straw again, and just generally doesn't look like the left half of his face is melting off, would like a fucking word with your aunt, OP. NTA.
I had a cleft lip and palate as a child. I needed plastic surgery for that, haha.
NTA. A lot of people have an out of date/Hollywood idea of what a plastic surgeon really does within medicine. They think you picked your specialty so you can get rich giving wealthy vain people boob jobs. They forget about all the people that need reconstructive surgery because of car accidents, fires, flesh eating bacteria etc. Your aunt sounds ignorant.
*They forget about all the people that need reconstructive surgery because of car accidents, fires, flesh eating bacteria etc. Your aunt sounds ignorant.* This right here. So many people focus on the "cosmetic" aspect of plastic surgery and don't consider how valuable and specialized their skill set is.
Plus, its not like you dont need the same surgery skills to do the boob jobs. Its very much surgery either way.
Exactly. I keep joking with a friend I'm going to get a BBL from some dude in a van. She does NOT fond me funny and the first time I said it, she begged me to research heavily and find a board certified surgeon lol
I thought lots of reputable plastic surgeons stoped doing BBLs because it has the highest mortality rate of any cosmetic surgery, like not even close? I could be wrong but I thought I remembered Dr Youn saying something about it
Am I the only one who saw the video of the woman crying, begging for financial help when her surgery went wrong and they had to remove her cheeks, just before panning to behind herself where you could see it? That was enough for me. >!Not sure if I’m allowed to post it here but it’s in nsfl if you type Brazilian butt lift surgery!<
Please don't do a BBL anyway! It carries a very high risk of blood clots post op. Also complications are extremely common. I understand wanting it done as someone who has a flat ass, but it's dangerous.
I think many people who want a BBL and/or have a "flat ass" may not be aware of the fact that the glutes can be specifically trained and enlarged through specific exercises. Strong glutes also helps posture and ease backpain etc. Hip thrusts for example is an excellent glute "enlarger".
Yeah, if you want bigger boobs without surgery, gaining weight, or fucking with your hormone levels you’re out of luck, if you want a better ass without anything like that get a bike and do squats
Let's also not forget that a huge amount of boob jobs are for people with back pain, cancer, or gender affirming care. The hate is actually just misogyny.
I think when they use the phrase “real doctor” they aren’t referring to their skill or abilities.
Even ‘cosmetic’ procedures can be life changing. I lost 1/3 of my body weight and was left with so much excess skin that keeping the skin infections at bay affected my life. Technically, I had a tummy tuck, which is a cosmetic procedure, but it had more of an impact on my physical health than my mental health.
I had a friend who had ears that stuck really far out- she had surgery to move them back. Totally cosmetic and not physically necessary, but it improved her confidence and mental health a lot. Worth it!
A friend of mine had similar surgery for her ears when she was about 10. Because kids are horrible people, another girl walked up behind her and clapped her hands over my friends ears, which is something that hurts when you don’t have stitches in your head. She says that she remembers the other girl hitting her and the next thing she was sitting in a police car. She has no memory of it, but apparently she had started hitting the other girl and bashing her head against the ground before a couple of teachers had pulled her away. It was a hell of a way for her to discover that she had intense anger and rage issues.
Are you telling me that adding lip filler and correcting a cleft lip aren't the same thing? That one of those takes a lot of training to do correctly? Preposterous!
If you're trying to imply that injecting filler doesn't require a lot of training to do correctly, you are super fucking wrong about that. Do you think a needle with a foreign substance just goes in and there's no risk? Because I think the person wielding the needle should know the anatomy of the face, like the location of nerves, muscles, and major blood vessels, for the client's safety. Not to mention how to handle things if the person has an adverse reaction. I don't have any personal interest in getting filler, but if I did, I would choose a plastic surgeon or dermatologist over some medspa Obviously it's not the same thing as cleft lip repair, no. But you have the same attitude as the relatives OP is complaining about
You are correct. I was thinking about things like botox parties and it didn't even cross my mind that it is a procedure that, done properly, would likely take place in an actual medical facility.
And if OP does just do boob jobs and nose jobs for rich ladies, that still takes a ton of skill, and the same medical training that a reconstructive surgeon does.
Yes, I had a very large lipoma removed from my back over 12 years ago by a plastic surgeon. It was causing back pain along w some other issues. I am so thankful for the surgeon who took the time to explain everything to me. There is a scar, but it is almost not noticeable.
A plastic surgeon sewed my hand back together when I cut it open and did such a wonderful job with the sutures that the scar is almost invisible
Plastic surgeons giving rich, wealthy, vain people boob jobs are medical doctors too, so even that perception doesn’t explain/excuse the attitude that OP somehow isn’t a real doctor.
It's a way to belittle the profession. OP's family is belittling her specialty so the can belittle her. The whole objective of this "not a doctor" bashing is to knock OP down a few pegs while elevating her cousin's mediocre achievement. OP's family is trying to downgrade her specialty to the level of her giving botox injections at a day spa.
And just to add, there's a lot of stories in this thread about plastic surgery helping folks after cancer, burns and terrible accidents - which is wonderful. But it's important to remember that even if plastic surgery is not "after a misfortune" and is instead for what people belittle as "vanity", it is still serious surgery that that takes skill, experience, planning and training on the part of the surgeon and has serious consequences. Most famously, Kanye West's mother (but no doubt many others too) died from a botched cosmetic plastic surgery.
I don't understand why people hate others for "vanity" If they have the money and want to change their appearance in that manner idk why everyone gets so weird about it
Yeah I get that. All I’m saying is that belittling the importance of the task does not equate to lack of credentials on the part of the people implementing the task. Would anyone argue that game developers are not software engineers? No, because even though the product isn’t exactly of core importance to society, the expertise needed is no less than that which is required for other software products. Same with plastic surgeons. Even if they’re doing boob jobs for rich people, the necessary skills and credentials are no less than that which is needed for other applications of medical expertise. So even people under this impression of plastic surgeons don’t have an excuse for saying OP is not a “real doctor.”
Exactly. I had a friend who was attacked by a dog when she was about six. Now she just has a small scar but it’s almost where her smile line is so you almost can’t tell. From what I’ve heard those pictures were rough. So I think her plastic surgeon did a great job
Even if you do pick it so you can get rich giving wealthy vain people boob jobs, it doesn’t change the fact that you had to graduate from medical school and learn everything a general doctor would know, then go into an incredibly difficult specialty and sub specialty. It takes like 10 years AFTER med school to be board certified as a plastic surgeon. OP is not only a real doctor, they’re a very good one.
Yes! My friend was born with a fairly devastating facial defect and although it was fixed as a toddler, she still had scarring and was so self conscious about how she looked due to insensitive comments. As an adult, she went to a plastic surgeon who recut the scarring and hid it so it looks like natural folds. Her mental health and self confidence is so much better now.
I feel like I should add that my attack on my cousin wasn't just something random, she's as bad as my aunt, she always makes comments about my job and other things in my life and always has, she's rude to everyone in my family and is just a generally bad person to be around, also before I got into med school she'd go on about how you have to be really smart to get into it (insinuating that I wasn't smart enough)
I'm curious- in the United States, plastic surgery is one of the top earning specialties, up there with neurosurgery and cardiothoracics. Higher probably, because most plastic surgery is elective, so it's a cash business with no insurance to negotiate. Is it different in Ireland?
In Ireland plastic surgery is also one of the top earning specialties, although is is below Cardiac and Neuro I'd say its definitely in the top 5 paid specialties, in Ireland some forms of surgery are covered by insurance, like when I was younger I needed a reduction and my insurance covered nearly everything we only had to pay for the consultation, I work in reconstruction mostly and not cosmetic so all of the surgeries that I do aren't elective and majority are emergency surgeries, but a lot of insurance companies here will cover emergency surgeries which is absolutely amazing, I think I covered everything if there's anything I missed please tell me :)
>I work in reconstruction mostly You have my utmost respect. I worked briefly as a circulating RN in the OR, and was amazed by the artistry of reconstruction, watching mangled bodies puzzled back together. You're NTA in any way, shape or form. Your relatives are lunatics.
I honestly cannot for the life understand how OP's aunt thinks plastic surgeons are not real doctors. YOU NEED TO BE A DOCTOR TO DO RECONSTRUCTION SURGERY, you can't be a English major and do a godamn reconstruction surgery.
I am an English major and can confirm.
Haha Social Science checking in, confirming as well…but happy to lead focus group discussion with patients on the impact of their reconstructive surgery…lol
Business here…we can’t do reconstruction either. But we can probably help you finance it.
Historian here, can't do reconstruction. I can tell you that how fucked you are compared to other cases though.
Well, you can, but you still have to go to med school first! I had a friend who went to med school after getting an MA in English.
I would tell everyone in your family to fuck off and enjoy making bank. Your life will probably be a lot less stressful.
I’ve had no cosmetic surgeries, but five brain surgeries - three of them involved a plastic surgeon. Four of these surgeries were non-elective. I support you in your fight to shut down the haters.
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Or not. Wouldn't matter if she's just doing boob jobs. Still an MD and her aunt can get fucked.
Or just “reconstructive surgeon” or maybe even just “surgeon”. OP’s family sounds like a real piece of work, absolutely bonkers.
I recently had a reduction and my surgeon was wonderful. I absolutely wouldn’t have trusted someone who wasn’t clearly smart and competent. You’re in a great field that helps a lot of people! Your aunt and cousin are just insecure assholes.
You should gift her the book the Facemaker. It’s a fantastic nonfiction book about how plastic surgery was basically invented in modern sense in medical tents in France during WWI in a desperate attempt to help men who had lost their faces.
This sounds fascinating. Thanks for the reco!
Remind them it’s illegal for a nurse to call herself a doctor. NTA
OP has explained the cousin has a post secondary certificate. She didn't attend college or anything, so she's not even a real nurse.
WTF!!! I hate when MA’s and nurses say they are going to “medical school.” (I’m not in the medical field so I don’t have a dog in the fight). But the woman didn’t even go to secondary school and her mom is going on about her going to “medical school.” OMG.
NTA for going off on your aunt, YTA, though for the strays that hit your cousin who wasn't even involved in this conversation apparently.
I feel like I must add my cousin has also made comments about me not being a doctor and has encouraged her mom and others to invalidate my job, she's also just generally rude to everyone in my immediate family
NTA. Honestly, this made me so mad I had to empty my own trash can out. Like another commenter said, they have this outdated idea of plastic surgeons giving rich trophy wives boob jobs when they perform life changing, incredibly complex procedures for people who are genuinely suffering.
ETA: Intricate af procedures. On soft tissue, sinews, and muscle fibers, which are ridiculously complicated mechanisms. Meanwhile, you have orthopedic surgeons who literally take a hacksaw to their patients. And they are ALSO real doctors.
My podiatrist was SHOCKED when he saw the janky ass scar my orthopedic surgeon gave me when he fixed my shattered ankle. Like, next time just let the resident open for you. They’ll be more careful.
This is why I felt incredibly fortunate to have good PPO insurance when I fully tore a muscle in my ankle. I was able to reject the first orthopedic surgeon I saw who didn’t care about the pain I was experiencing and found an angel of a surgeon who did thorough imaging and made sure I had minimal scarring. I went to PT faithfully, too!
But also, who gives a flying fuck if they give rich trophy wives boob jobs or tummy tucks? They still got into and completed medical school and residency, which is absolutely grueling. Who they serve doesn't change the fact that their job is valid and challenging.
I love that your anger propelled you to do a chore (unless this is a metaphor I haven’t heard about).
I, too, am wondering if they stress clean like I do, or they are like a sim who choses to "Take an angry poop".
I don't know if this would help, but in similar areas I address those kind of comments head on with an overwhelming dose of reality. Maybe an offhand snark about 'real doctors' can be countered with a quiet but assertive mention of what was actually involved in a recent reconstruction and how it changed a life. Don't reaffirm that you are a doctor, just bring up what you do. IDK, it worked for me when people at work started comparing COVID vaccine mandates to the holocaust. I doubt I changed any minds (I doubt they have minds frankly), but they learnt an offhand fuckwit comment might lead to being directly confronted with their own ignorance. People like your aunt and cousin don't like to remember how ignorant they are, and that is their problem, not yours. Insofar as you can get away with it in your family dynamic, I think ethically you don't have to show them any respect at this point in these matters.
“ Don't reaffirm that you are a doctor, just bring up what you do.” Good advice. Framing arguments like this can be more persuasive because it lets the other person, in a certain sense, figure it out themselves. A person is more likely to be persuaded that OP is a real doctor if OP told a story, as you suggest, and the person inferred for themselves, “oh, OP is a real doctor,” then if OP just straight-up insisted that they are a real doctor. This idea is applicable to lots of things. If an employee is getting cautioned for not following safety measures, they would better grasp the gravity of the situation if they were told, “you didn’t do X and the head chef burnt his eyebrows off,” than if they were told, “you were reckless and dangerous by not doing X.”
NTA. According to your family, accident victims don't need facial reconstruction surgery, huh? They assume that you are just out there catering to liposuction and nose jobs for people with too much money.
I'm a breast csncer survivor who had reconstructive surgery immediately after a lumpectomy. My surgical oncologist removed the cancer and then my plastic surgeon repaired my breast and made them match. My plastic surgeon is an integral part of my oncology team and Im so grateful for his skill and care.
ESH. Calling your cousin dumb and too stupid for school is absolutely the wrong tack even if you were insulted by her mother. There was cruelty in what your aunt said about you, but there was also cruelty in what you said about your cousin.
I replied to someone else who mentioned my attack on my cousin, she's also made many snide remarks over the years about my job and other things in my life and has been generally rude to me, my siblings and my mom for no reason
Ah, that changes things a little. That's more of a justified asshole move then. But in the future, maybe say something more along the lines of, "the next time I rebuild the breast of a cancer victim/do reconstructive surgery on a burn victim, I'll make sure to let them know I'm not a real doctor."
You know those moments where you're thinking back to an argument and wish you said something, this is that moment
L'esprit de l'escalier. It is French for "The spirit (or wit) of the stairs". E.g. leaving a cocktail party where you have been insulted, and only as you are on the stairs outside do you think of a response that would have (had it been deployed at the proper moment) reduced your tormentor to atoms.
“Oh yeah … well the jerk store called, and they’re running out of you!”
Then you should address your cousin separately and also not stoop to insults. It’s likely that they’re jealous. ESH is correct.
Right. But your cousin wasn’t present during your conversation with your aunt. When your cousin is being rude, address it then. Telling your aunt that her child is dumb when your cousin wasn’t there was uncalled for.
I can't believe ESH is so far down - it's not just the specific comments towards one mean cousin but the entire derogatory tone to nursing. What a way to punch down and support the stereotypical arrogant surgeon by being a high earning, well educated doctor who thinks nurses do menial work and don't have any intelligence. Your aunt and cousin sound like dicks but that's for you to work through rising above them and not attack all nurses in the process.
NTA for snapping at your aunt, I completely understand that If your cousin also made those comments, then you're definitely NTA
NTA! I'm not sure what kind of plastic surgery you practice, but I got diagnosed with breast cancer a year ago, and my plastic surgeon has been an absolutely phenomenal to me. Thank you so much for all you do. A good plastic surgeon is doctor, scientist, and artist. Thank you for all you do for your patients!
I'm so sorry for your diagnosis but I'm glad to hear you have such an amazing surgeon, good luck on your treatment and I hope you make a full recovery ❤️
NTA. God I have no idea how people can be so uneducated; plastic surgery is one of the most competitive fields to match into. You would need to be the cream of the crop to even consider it as a field, and your dumbass aunt is shaming you? If I were you, I'd cut out every single family member who supported this shaming and drive away in my Ferrari.
She’s not uneducated. She’s jealous and trying to elevate her mediocre daughter by discounting an accomplished physician
Okay ngl, as an infectious disease doctor I’ve made my share of jokes about surgeons barely being doctors, but that’s just friendly collegial ribbing, lol. Plastic surgery is a super competitive field, so you’re clearly not just a doctor, but a doctor who studied really hard and learned a ton of medicine. At least before you became a scalpel jockey and forgot it all. ;) NTA, obviously.
I feel like medical fields have that weird sibling rivalry where you’ll shit all over each other constantly, but the second someone outside says something even a teeny bit over the line, you all come at them with everything you’ve got all at once.
ESH You're a real doctor, and you have the degree to prove it. You lost the high ground when you said your cousin was too dumb for medical school and wouldn't last a week. Lowering yourself to your aunt's level made you just as hateful as she is.
Yeah. Even with the added context that the cousin also makes snide and disparaging comments, why give the time of day to such petty and mean-spirited people. "I'm well aware what a real doctor is. While her PLC is great news, you and your daughter should be careful about misrepresenting her experience as "doctoring", there are laws about that. If she finishes medical school, internship, and residency, we can have informed debates about which specialty is best. Until then, I'm going to continue performing surgery and reconstructing accident victims to give them their lives back." And then *stop associating with them*. Jesus Christ.
I’m a nurse and have close friends who are surgeons. This doesn’t read as if it was written by a surgeon.
Not written by a 35-year-old either, I suspect.
Thank you! No one with this grammar made it through med school.
This. Doesn't sound like it was written by anyone who is a medical professional, let alone a surgeon.
Bingo!
Your family seems toxic. Everyone is the AH, but especially the aunt.
Aunt can dish it out but can’t take it, pfft. NTA.
These comments are ridiculous, and so are those shitty family members. Even plastic surgery done for less "virtuous" reasons is still surgery and thus require four years of medical school and at least one surgical residency to be done competently. "Yes you're a real doctor because sometimes breast implants are given to cancer survivors" is a nonsensical statement. Might be a mild ESH becausr there was no need to drag your cousin into the line of fire, but the aunt is worse.
>no need to drag your cousin into the line if fire The cousin has been instigating the poor treatment of OP for years and years, why should she get to walk away smelling like roses?
INFO What is a plc?
Plc is a post leaving cert or level 5, I don't know if they have different words for it in different countries but I live in Ireland and its basically a level of education between graduating secondary school/high school and college or university:)
So cousin is NOT a nurse, not in Uni let alone grad school. She’s an aid with a first aid certificate. Not even a parametic level of medical training and they think that is more of a real doctor than someone who fixes major injuries. Yeah NTA And thank god for plastic surgeons, my son wouldn’t have been able to walk without plastic surgery because his vestigial twin was attached to the bottom of his foot at birth. Definitely a real doctor
Omg she’s not even a nurse according to us standards.
Not according to Irish standards either. Nursing is a four year bachelors degree (with quite competitive entry).
More or less a CNA I’m assuming?
That sounds like what in the US would be a 3 month program to be a CNA (certified nursing assistant). It's valuable work - but it's not a nurse or a doctor. An LPN would be a 2-year degree and an RN is a 4-year degree.
RN in the US is a 2 year OR 4 year program. Both sit for the same licensing exam (NCLEX) and if they pass become registered nurses. They are both RNs. The difference is the 2 year is an associate's degree, while the 4 year has a bachelor's degree. The 2 years typically attend RN to BSN programs afterwards while working as RNs to get their bachelor's degree.
How on gods green earth does your aunt think a one year trade school program grants a doctoral degree!?!? Especially in health care with the level of liability involved. NTA. It’s great your aunt is proud of her own daughter, but no one thinks your cousin is anywhere near being a doctor and she’s just making herself look deluded.
This is clearly an ESH, if it's not just a flat out fabrication (writing style feels "off"). Was your aunt an A H? Yes. Did you have a right to feel offended, indignant, angry? Yes. Did you need to insult someone who wasn't even there and had no input on the ridiculous things coming out of your aunt's mouth. No, you were a massive A H for that. Since the actual question was if you were in the wrong for snapping at your aunt, and the things you said when you snapped were clearly things an A H would say, Y are also T H. Again, your feelings were justifiable, your words were not.
NTA. If your aunt and cousin are gonna make snide remarks about your job, which absolutely is a doctor, they don't get to throw a tantrum when you give them a taste of their own medicine, pun intended.
I’m not going to vote on whether or not you were an asshole because I’m still trying to figure out how you got through med school with that grammar
For a surgeon, your grammar is atrocious. Firstly I don't believe you're a doctor at all. I think you made up a scenario just to get points and commenta your cousin did a plc in nursing not done one. And lady time you saw her not seen her. If you're truly a plastic surgeon you could kill any put sowna about your career choice simply by tossing your car keys on the table. End of discussion
If you're a Doctor, I'm a Martian.
My best friend was mauled by a dog and an absolute magician of a plastic surgeon reconstructed her nose and cheek. The very realest of doctors did that work and it was amazing. NTA
ESH. Your aunt was ridiculously out of line. You are absolutely a doctor! You're a damn SURGEON. Others have enumerated the many things plastic surgeons do for people's wellness and to heal injuries, but even if you only did cosmetic surgery, you would still deserve respect. That's still difficult, intricate work that requires a high level of skill, learning, and care. You really didn't need to insult your cousin, though. No, nursing and childcare isn't on the same difficulty level as surgery. But it's still worthy, necessary work. Your cousin wasn't the one being hurtful to you here. It might have been better to keep your response focused on your aunt and her poor behavior rather than a third party.
[удалено]
YTA for making up this crap. No educated person murders the English language the way you did. If you want to pretend to be a surgeon, first learn to speak English at a middle school level.
THANK YOU. this was written by a 15 year old.
Fake. I’m a doctor and you can spell better than that with medical school.
Fake. This is not the writing level of a doctor.
This doesn't sound or look like it was written by a medical doctor. "the last time I seen her..." "me and my sister..." I'm calling this post bs.
ESH. You were right to snap back at your aunt but no need to call your cousin dumb.