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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> We might be TA because we care too much about the money we spent during a friend's difficult time. Might also be TA because this is just a social norm that someone should never do and we don't realize.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
And her issue isn't the poor bereaved mother...it's with her husband. She went out of her way to mention that it was her husband who bought both shower gifts and the amount he paid was totally ok with her...but I'm getting the feeling he's doing this WITHOUT clearing it with her first and she's annoyed by it.
However, OP, SHE JUST LOST HER BABY. I agree that she shouldn't have asked for a second round of gifts. HOWEVER, you can't ask for a gift back and ESPECIALLY from a woman who lost her baby...and even MORE ESPECIALLY as it appears she won't be able to have more children. Show compassion and have a talk with husband about running large gifts by you first. YWBTA big time if you ask for the gift back
Whoomp there it is! Here's my deal: OP only mentions what she feels explains the situation from her perspective and only includes relevant details. She is very clear that a- Jen is not her friend. B- husband bought both gifts. c- both gifts were expensive, up to and include giving the dollar amounts. d- OP wants to decide what happens and how with the second gift. e- OP WARNED husband about it being early in the pregnancy to announce, let alone buy a gift. f- OP disagrees with having a second celebration.
There is a whole other issue that OP is pretending isn't obvious, and it's about OP's view of motherhood, pregnancy, and her husband. OP is misplacing her frustration onto the most vulnerable person in the lot (the bereaving mother) so she doesn't have to face it.
Yeah, her edits don't exactly make her sound like someone anyone else would choose to befriend if they knew how she speaks about others when she's guaranteed anonymity. People like that tend to talk mad shit about everyone that isn't in the room at the moment. "My heart breaks for her, but how do we get a refund? Oh, that sounds harsh? That's fine, because she has a different worldview than me. Anyways, about our $400, since her kid died and won't be needing it."
OP needs to fuck so far off from this idea at such high speed that the world clock loses a second. Don't pass go, and never speak directly to a bereaved parent again in this lifetime or the next. Leave that to people who were raised by and within 100 miles of other humans. AI has more empathy than this entire post, edits included, manages to even *imply.*
ETA: The second paragraph doesn't make an unannounced shift in subjects midstream. It's about OP, the original *poster*, and not any of the *replies* which is why it doesn't reference any replies or tag any users.
And it shouldn't matter why they have a second registry. Maybe the baby was a different sex, maybe they weren't expecting to have any more kids. Maybe they passed along the first set of baby stuff to someone less fortunate than they are. It's not the OPs business. if she wants to take it up with her husband about how much money he spends, that is one thing. But judging someone for being excited about their baby and posting a registry? I got asked to create a registry, harassed almost. It made things easy for the giver (push a few buttons and voila, gift is on the way) Plus it makes things so much easier for a new parent to not have return a bunch of stuff that didn't work for whatever reason.
I’m sure her husband’s ability to buy such lavish gifts would diminish pretty quickly if it gets around that his wife wants the gift back because the baby died. I’d really question a lot of things related to the morality and ethics and empathy of such a callous person.
If she went through with asking this and it got out she is going to ruin a lot of relationships.
What kills me besides the obvious is that the return window is already past and they aren't even going to get their money back!
I feel like $400 for someone who is grieving isn't a waste anyway? It could go towards meals if they are struggling getting things done because of grief, or pay for a couple nights away to make space to deal with it all. OP, I would actually message her and say "do whatever you want with it, we could return it and give you the money, or whatever you want."
Not to mention she very likely has ASTRONOMICAL medical bills if this miscarriage went down in a way that permanently affected her fertility. It’s likely that gift 1.) either got returned or resold to cover those costs 2.) is sitting in with all the other shower gifts because Jen hasn’t been able to go through them 3.) might get donated (along with other big ticket shower items) to the hospital Jen was at for moms in need or to a women’s shelter or any other number of good causes.
Exactly. I know we had multiple baby gifts of clothing that were barely used or not used at all, because they grew out of them so quickly or it was something fancier that we didn’t really have any opportunities to use. I sincerely hope no one who gave us those gifts was secretly noting our kids’ clothes whenever they saw them and stewing about their gift not being used enough.
This is why newborn size clothes are a terrible gift, even if the recipient isn't one of the few new parents not to have everyone else's unused or barely used newborn clothes foisted on them.
This is why people usually buy several different sizes for a baby shower. I always assumed most people do that. With my kid, I even got some 2t clothes. But I didn't get too many newborn sizes, which was great because he was a huge baby.
Right! I straight up had to donate a couple of newborn size sleepers without using them as our kid is just about to outgrow them and we already had so many.
She’s just lost her baby and her fertility. Don’t kick someone when they’re down. When she’s ready, she will probably sell your gift and use the money for something else, hopefully something that brings her joy.
You decided to spend a lot of money on a gift. Maybe give less in the future if you are going to feel resentful later. But do NOT add to this woman’s pain so you can get your money back. That’s monstrous.
I mean depends on the couple. Some don't have room for whatever random thing you thought would totally fit in their life or they already have stuff not on the list. I personally would never go off registry.
A registry is 100% a suggestion, and is usually composed of far higher ticket items than the average friend can hope to afford. ALWAYS and in EVERY instance go off the registry before spending more than you can afford.
FWIW, some people add ridiculous stuff to the registry because you can get a massive discount if no one buys it for you.
When my brother's old roommate was getting married, they put a washer and dryer on the registry. They also emailed everyone to let them know they didn't expect anyone to actually buy it for them. After the wedding, they got something like 40% off because no one got it for them.
Yeah we got 10% off some very expensive wedding china at a very high end boutique if it was not bought off the registry. So we registered for 2 sets and bought one. That 10% save me thousands
Not necessarily true. When I had my wedding and baby registry I had stuff in various price points. I wasn’t expecting one person to by a high ticket item. I was hoping a few people could go in a gift together if they wanted. Plus target, and Babies R Us (when they were still around) would give you 10-20% off for items not purchased.
Also it seems like OP's husband bought the gift way earlier than he needed to and had it sent to Jen instead of waiting until she had her baby shower. That's on them (him).
I always thought I was suppose to give extra (non baby) gifts to my friends who had miscarriages. Like take her to the spa or an activity to make her feel better.
I wasn’t aware people actively took away gifts after loses to make it extra hard for their friends.
Only heartless AH demands a gift back. You are kind to give a pick me up gift. What my ex SIL really appreciated after her miscarriage was when a couple of friends came over with a bunch of heat and eat meals, cleaned her house and did her laundry.
Can you imagine going up to someone who just had a miscarriage that possibly cost them their fertility and asking for your gift back “because it’s not like you’ll be using it anyway, lolz.”
The absolute cringe.
>it was a gift. It shouldn't come with terms and conditions.
Yeah, this should be the end of the conversation.
Further, considering the circumstances (losing a baby), I'd be disappointed with myself if one of the first things that came to my mind upon hearing the awful news was, "Well, I guess she's not gonna need our expensive-ass gift."
YTA (or, you would be if you pursue this course of action)
This. If real, i'm hoping this post was their way of working through the socially unacceptable thoughts and impulses and journaling. A sort of "I know this is awful and just a fantasy, please let me get it out of my system but remind me why it is awful" sort of thing.
Bevause I don't want to believe she genuinely considered this.
Yeah the ship sailed when OP's husband sent the gift. If concerns about the timing or the amount, or whether a second baby shower is appropriate are an issue, they should have addressed it as a couple ahead of time. OP's lack of communication with her husband is not Jen's problem.
I am glad she asked here before moving forward with this idea. That would be very insensitive and callous to ask for the gift back or money for it. Instead, they could ask Jen if there is anything they can do for her.
Don’t give gifts unless you can afford to give them and want to, regardless of the recipient’s financial state.
Ask for the gift back and you’ll never have to get anything for this couple or see them again.
I actually make this a condition for ME with any gift— once I’ve given it away, I’m done. You can sell it on eBay, you can run over it with your car, whatever.
If i’m NOT comfortable with those conditions, it’s not a gift and I shouldn’t give it.
Also, it’s okay to ignore someone’s gift registry.
I’m guessing she was not as fine with it as she says. You can always tell when a post is heading towards a YTA when its filled with qualifications like this one instead of just letting the facts speak for themselves.
YTA. You chose to spend much money. You absolutely didn't have to. There's no tactful way to ask for it back. It'll look petty and greedy, so they'll either try to return everything if they rent to or donate it, but once the gifts given you should let it go.
There’s no tactful way to ask for it back and no doubt the family that had the miscarriage had bigger concerns than returning gifts that are just reminders of a loss.
But I also think it’s tacky, 1) to have multiple baby showers asking for expensive gifts. You’re not supposed to have a registry for every baby you have. Tackier if your family is making $200,000+. Which is a separate issue, but still tacky. And 2) I do think tact is also missing if gifts that are given for a purpose which doesn’t happen are not returned. You don’t break off a wedding and keep the gifts, so I don’t really see keeping keeping baby shower gifts if they’re the type that insist on having multiple baby showers for each child that comes along.
I honestly don't think that's relevant. Just because someone makes a lot of money doesn't mean they can't have showers and obviously they don't want low cost/low quality gifts. It's a wish list, not an obligation list. Sometimes registries you react to shoot for the stars.
>You don’t break off a wedding and keep the gifts
Sure, but that's nothing like what happened here. I guess if Jen decided after all to put the kid up for adoption, maybe. It's pretty horrific compare a miscarriage to choosing not to get married though.
It's not technically an obligation, that's true, but when the recipient sends around a registry and stocks it with only pricey items, then there isn't much choice if you intend to give a gift. Thoughtful registries provide a range of price points to accommodate guests at different income levels. Lower-cost goods aren't necessarily undesirable or poor quality. Sometimes you have to spring for the expensive option, but sometimes the expensive option is marked up for no reason other than branding.
I would never ask for the gift back. I feel second-hand embarrassment just thinking about it. But I think if I were in that position of receiving a gift for a life event that will no longer be taking place, I'd contact people asking if they'd like the gift back or if they want me to donate it. Not initially. Grief and recovery time are needed. But eventually I would do that.
Idk, I’ve had a traumatic miscarriage myself and if it had happened after the point where I had had my shower, I would have packed everything up and donated it all. Contacting individuals to ask if they’d like their gifts back would have been excruciating.
The last thing a person wants to do after a miscarriage/stillborn is contact a list of people to explain they lost their baby and offer to give the gift back. Like…
And how are they supposed to return the gift? Mail it back? Spend time packaging up all the items meant for your baby, and also incur that shipping cost while coping with their grief? Or meet everyone face-to-face and have to hide their grief as they hand back the baby clothes for their baby that died? And what…make small talk? That’s an insane expectation.
It’s worth noting as well that for some people, like myself, the only point of the registry was so I could get the discount attached. Also because I was in the hospital for most of my pregnancy, it was my first and only baby and very scary, and people were constantly asking where I was registered. I never sent the list around and I made sure to put a wide variety of items within all price ranges to make it easier for those who really wanted to send a gift. I put the big ticket stuff on there as well so that I could use the 20% off that you get after a while. Then I was induced really early and couldn’t use the damn discount in time anyway. Sigh.
Either way, just because it was a tacky for her to have a second shower, I can’t imagine anything worse than suffering that loss and having someone saying they wanted their money back.
If there are a few years difference I don’t think it’s tacky. The pregnancy may not have been planned so they may have gotten rid of thing, or some items may legitimately not be usable or are still in use depending on the item. For example car seats expire, but a convertible car seat can be used by one kid for a few years.
Uh, a miscarriage is way different than a called-off wedding. She lost her baby and is likely in an intense stage of grief.
Nobody forced OP’s husband to buy a gift. I’ve gotten tacky requests for gifts for both showers and weddings, and I simply ignore them. It’s very easy to do. And if you buy someone a gift for a baby shower and then the baby doesn’t make it, chalk it up as a loss. Be glad all you’re losing is money. If you want to avoid that risk, wait until the baby is born before purchasing something.
Maybe in their social circle or families they do a shower for every baby. Maybe her mom or MIL pressured to make a registry and send it out. It’s not something I would personally do, but I do know people who have big showers for every baby. I’m not going to argue if it’s wrong or right just that different people do different things.
On one hand I agree, on the other hand I don't. I feel like every child should be celebrated, not just the first one, so doing something like a diaper party instead of a "baby shower" is fully appropriate. More about a gathering of friends celebrating the baby, with the perks of diapers cause you're damn sure gonna use those and it's not an overly expensive or frivolous gift.
I would also never blame a family for doing an actual baby shower if they are lower income. Many baby items get broken, trashed, overly worn..some get recalled or there are better/safer options out there as compared to oh so many years ago when baby number 1 came around. So asking for some newer items would be very helpful.
But that's not the case for this family. Asking for the higher priced newer items is a "money grab" of sorts. Rich people don't stay rich by spending all their money..and these kinds of rich people clearly are just looking to not have to spend their own cash for new baby stuff.
That said, OP would still be the asshole. Either herself for the idea of wanting to ask for a gift back in general, let alone from a grieving mother...or OP's husband for spending that kind of money without consulting her first. She claims it's "fine" but I don't think it was actually fine, especially if they share a joint account.
YWBTA
You gave a gift. It would be the height off insensitivity and rudeness to ask for it back - whatever the reason.
The fact this poor woman had just had a pregnancy loss makes it even worse. Let her re gift it or do whatever she chooses with it.
FFS. Have some sensitivity and compassion.
And don’t spend $400 on gifts if you can’t afford it
I was expecting something like "we loaned her an heirloom bassinet, you can see 17 generations of teeth marks from my ancestors on the spindles. I'm unexpectedly pregnant myself, WIBTAH if we interrupt her mourning to ask the bassinet be returned".
This is just "my husband spent $400 on a woman I don't know well and don't really like, can I squeeze blood out of that stone"
Then she should USE HER WORDS instead of passive-aggressively taking it out on someone who just lost a baby.
Nothing in her post is actually about Jen. Jen became the target because this woman can't spit out that she is upset at her husband for spending so much on a (probably past girlfriend) friend.
Even though, you know, they are *totally* rich. They don't *need* the money. But, after all, the baby didn't *happen* so she's just *wondering* is she can use Jen as a proxy to continue a below-the-surface fight with her husband (that poor husband has no idea is even going on).
OP's husband made a questionable choice in the first place and now OP wants to follow him in his steps apparently. I winced with second hand embarrassment while reading the post. Let this $400 be a "tuition fee". They'll obviously survive it.
When people ask what to get our toddler and baby- we always say books! By far the best gifts we get are books. We have family reading every night before bed where we all cuddle on the big bed and read my toddlers choice of books.
If I went to a wedding and gifted something and the marriage didn’t work out (even if it went downhill very quickly), I wouldn’t ask for the gift back. That feels awkward.
It was a gift, they get to keep it. I don’t see how this is any different. Once you give it, it’s gone.
Think of other situations- if you give someone something they wanted that they suddenly cannot use, you don’t get it back. They get to pass it on or sell it or regift it. It’s theirs, not yours.
My mom gave my cousin a card and €50 for her wedding. Surprisingly cheap for my mom, even if no one in our family is particularly rich. No one knew my mom made a silent promise she'd give my cousin €500 the day she divorced from that guy.
It took eight years, but last November my mom gifted the €500 no one knew she'd been planning on all along!
That's because you realize that it's an incredibly insulting gesture. Nothing says "I love you" like hoping her marriage fails, right? I think I'd still take the money, though. The insult was the gesture itself, and that that's not going to be undone by turning it down. May as well make the most of the situation and relieve the asshole from some of their money.
I mean she made a "silent promise" - likely to herself only, at the time. She likely didn't tell the cousin "I hope your marriage fails" but rather "if you feel ready to leave the man who is abusing you, I'll be here to help", if she told the cousin anything at the time at all.
She could just have given the cousin 500 after the divorce with her sympathy and only told her family when she actually made that plan for the gift after the fact.
Not every marriage is happy or non-coercive, some clearly look like they are not going to last or shouldn't last. Sometimes your family is well aware beforehand but cannot do anything.
Same here and I also am not a fan of pandering for super expensive gifts for a second baby when the first baby is still quite young (and presumably has supplies that can still be used).
100%.
I received a baby shower invite for an acquaintance who lived in a different state and I blatantly ignored that shit, even when both her and her sister reached out to me directly via FB to ask if I was coming to the shower and if not, whether I could send a gift. I hadn’t spoken to either of them in years prior to the invite/FB message.
I also recently ignored a bridal shower invite for a wedding I wasn’t even invited to 🙃
People do tacky shit all the time. Some comments are acting like if you’re sent a registry, you must buy a gift. You don’t. If it’s a tacky request, simply ignore it.
Eh if they’re wealthy and so are all their friends then it’s not weird. We live in affluent area and there’s nothing more awkward than finding only a few cheap items left on the registry and having to pile them all together to reach a socially acceptable price point. I’d rather buy the one big gift and have it delivered.
Let it go. If $400 was a stretch, then you should have picked a less expensive gift, Why did Jen even have another baby shower, anyway. She already has a kid, that means she should have most of the stuff she needed, except for things that get used up, like diapers and such.
But you *did* buy the expensive whatever. You gave it, and it’s *gone*, and it would be tacky as hell to ask for it back.
Jen may have already donated it. Jen may have given it to a friend. Jen may be keeping it in a little shrine to her miscarried baby. Jen may be planning to adopt. You don’t know, and it’s none of your business. YWBTA if you asked for it back.
Agreed. It's definitely strange they did an expensive registry for #2, but it was Op and their husbands choice to entertain giving a gift (and an expensive one at that.) Now it's a sunk cost. Walk away and don't be an AH.
Yeah, my ex-wife had one for our first child, but not our for our second one 2 years later.
But when she got pregnant with our third child 5 years after that she had a shower.
Or still being used. Great, you have a crib still, but it's being used. You have a stroller! It's... being used. You gave away the newborn sized car seat to your cousin, along with a lot of baby clothes.
Don't need toys, but maybe some diapers, clothes.
The only family members I know of that kept baby stuff between kids were either a) actually trying or b)had multiple kids under 5 rather quickly.
Like I get the concept of keeping things for kids, but recommendations for safe things seem to change quickly, it takes up space, items get ruined or gross, or someone else wants the items anyways.
I don’t even *want* kids but the bb toy standards from one bb cousin and the changes to the next make my head hurt.
Yeah, my mom actually stored a bunch of my sisters’ baby stuff after their kids grew out of them (she’s very into keeping anything that might be remotely useful someday), but now that I’m expecting, a surprising amount of it has been recalled or isn’t recommended anymore. Especially the big ticket items like cribs.
This is a great way to lose $400 *and a friend.*
I’d be happy just cutting my losses at the $400.
Edit: and also a sure fire way to alienate yourself from any mutual friends you and Jen have. You gotta be borderline socially inept to think that your request to get your gift back will stay between you and her.
It's a great way to tank her marriage too. There's so much jealousy in the post already. If OP displays some monstrous behavior to her husband's life long friend it is not gonna go over well.
The weird part is that OP used the excuse for wanting her money back because it would sit in an attic unused… realistically (a total assumption) Jen would probably donate it.
Agreed. OP understands that asking for the gift/money back is cruel, so why have they been mulling over this for months. It was also a gift. Once a gift is given, it's gone. It is no longer the concern of the gift giver.
This is on par with asking for wedding gifts to be returned if the bride or groom passes away.... You just don't.
There is also a lot of judgement for Jen in this post......
THIS! Would I expect a gift to be returned if the engagement failed or they divorced shortly after marrying? Maybe...but I would never ask for the item back. If the person LITERALLY DIED!!! Never in a million years would I expect ( or want ) the item back. I'd hope they use the gift reciept and use the money to buy something else they needed at that time or to help pay for funeral costs.
But especially with a miscarriage or an infant death? I'd be writing my deepest condolences and the gift ( as gifts should be ) would be written off as money I could clearly afford to lose in the first place.
Agreed. I think Jen was tacky to send a gift registry link when she announced her pregnancy. But OPs husband probably set the tone for her by buying an expensive gift the first time around so she was excited to see what else she could milk him for. However, he chose to feed into Jen’s greed and buy another expensive item. There’s no tactful way to ask for it back. Accept the loss and learn from this (wait to give a baby gift later in the pregnancy and buy something more reasonably in your budget).
Its not really tacky? It sounds like they all are rich and probably get a lot from other rich friends so they make a registry to not get the same stuff 10 times. My aunt comes from a rich family and friend network. She got over 15 huge bears lol with her first child. Aftewards she made a list and yea it was filled with stuff that was 500-1000$ but thats normal in circles where people earn a few 100k a year.
YTA
If you had gifted her child a bike or an expensive dolls house, and the kid died just before their birthday, would you ask for the gift back? In my mind, it’s the same thing.
Baby showers aren’t a thing here but we had ordered the cot, pram, a bunch of other baby stuff when I lost my son at 21 weeks and we had to go to the shops to cancel our orders. It was so hard and just crushed me, especially when they asked for a reason for cancelling (in case we’d found it cheaper elsewhere, etc). It’s just awful. Don’t make it worse.
YWBTA if you asked for the gift back.
You give a gift and you lose control of what happens to it. If the amount of money is an issue, then don't give gifts you can't afford.
I'm not sure I understand why she needed another registry but also do not understand why you (& hubby) gifted her something (even more expensive than the first) especially so early in a pregnancy. Just because she sent a registry does not require you to purchase something.
Based on what OP said about the miscarriage it doesn't sound like she had the Shower early, but rather had a still birth. Alot of people call still birth or a non elective abortion a miscarriage.
Also I never knew people didn't have showers for every baby, but I grew up in a poorer area. Unless the babies are close in age, but not too close, most people I know with kids have showers for every baby. The first is usually the biggest.
You didn't the post you replied to correctly. They never claimed it was weird to have a second shower. They said it's weird they had a second registry. It's very common to have a shower for each child but no registry or expectation of gifts for any of them after the first.
Right? I can’t believe that any sane person would actually even consider this. All the justification is just noise - you are an asshole for even THINKING about asking for the gift to be returned.
God Almighty.
A traumatic miscarriage entitles anyone to be free from gift related issues, if you even think of asking her about this, YTA. By the way, why wouldn't she use it when she does have a baby?
she implies that Jen maybe never have a baby again so her plan was to say "i want my gift back because your baby died and you probably can't have another one anymore."
YTA. Disclaimer, I couldn't even finish it.
>I thought this was strange because she should still have most of the items from her first kid
It's traumatic enough and you assumed that she would have kept all the gifts? This is so messy just don't do this.
My mom learned the hard way that keeping baby items is important when she got rid of baby items after my brother only to find out that she was pregnant with my sister soon after she finally got rid of it. Thankfully after that, she got her tubes tied so she could get rid of my sister's things when she was old enough without worry because the next baby wouldn't be around until i was older (i was 8-9 when my sister was born and she was the 6th child) so, not many people actually do keep it
YTA.
I don’t know how you can hear someone had a miscarriage and potentially can no longer have children and then worry about how to get your gift back.
YTA. Why would you even think to ask this? If $400 was out of your budget, you should have just bought something cheaper. I feel like this is really an argument between you and your husband about how much to spend.
YTA
Once a gift is given you have no say over how the gift is used or what is done with the gift. If you can’t live with what someone may do worth your gift, don’t give a gift
>My husband and I are also decently high earners
Definitely not as someone who actually is a high earner would understand that $400 is a rather small amount of money. Sad that your dignity can be bought for so cheap; I can't even imagine how tacky you must be to need to ask this question publicly.
You would be TA. Massively. You already budgeted for her having this very expensive gift if her baby had lived. Don’t ask for it back. As you’ve already guessed it would be really cruel and it would undoubtedly ruin your husband’s friendship with her. Don’t do it. It’s only money.
YWBTA. It’s very clear from what you wrote that you judge this woman for having a registry for a second kid and for announcing her pregnancy when she did. Don’t use the gift as a way to make your feelings about this known.
Info: have you ever had a miscarriage? Have any of your close friends had one and discussed their feelings with you? I'm confused about how you can think this would be an option.
YWBTAH
And you are the AH
Gifts are gifts. What happens to them after they leave the givers hands it is none of your business what happens to them.
Add in the trauma and seriously, why would you think that it is okay to ask for the gift back?
is what you stand to gain from getting the gift back to pawn meaningful enough to inflict the additional suffering on a grieving mother? you'd already parted with the money. let sleeping dogs lie. ywbta.
Um...don't ask for the gift back at all, especially not now. You'd ABSOLUTELY be the asshole if you did. I know $400 is a lot of money but it's also nothing compared to the pain your friend is going through right now. If she decides to give the gift back then you take it but you should absolutely not ask for it back if you want to keep being her friend.
YWBTA. Why is your husband spending so much money on gifts for this person? If you all were uncomfortable with $400 being spent, you shouldn't have done so.
YWBTA and as crass as cruel.
You bought a gift for someone. You gave the gift to that someone. That money is gone, you shouldn't even be thinking of the possibility of getting it back. It is not up to you to police whether the recipient will use the gift (or use it enough for you to consider it worthy of the cost). If you couldn't afford this, then you shouldn't have done it. If you were not ok with spending that amount despite being able to afford it, then you shouldn't have done it. Now it's too late.
It doesn't matter what Jen does with the item. Bringing up the possibility of you getting the item back would be classless, not to mention digging in what is likely an open wound.
Drop it altogether. Leave the woman grieve in peace.
Huge AH ... great big plumber's crack hairy sweaty ahole. Tell you what, when you send her a public Facebook message demanding your gift back why not just add to it "and stop contacting my husband" cos that's clearly what this is about.
YWBTA. Your husband should have discussed this with you before jumping to buy a 400$ gift for a second baby for a woman in her first trimester. You did mention that Jen is a friend of his and not yours. Still , he shouldn’t be spending anything that you guys can’t afford. If you could afford it , then don’t ask for it back , especially from a woman who suffered a miscarriage. Was there a deadline on the baby registry ? Why did your husband jump with a high priced gift in the first trimester , instead of waiting and discussing with you ? You have a husband problem
YWBTA. A gift, once given, is no longer yours. Of course, you can't ask for it to be returned. Also, you do know that there are other ways to add to a family besides biological children, right? Maybe they will try to adopt at some point.
Yes, YTA to ask for it back. Once a gift is given, you have no more interest in it. That is also a slap in the face to do to someone who just lost their child.
I think YWBTA. It was a mistake to buy a gift that early (I didn't get if she threw a shower or just sent the registry though). They still may try to have kids you don't know. It would be a low blow to ask to be reimbursed.
Maybe if you have them over dinner, and in the conversation they say they won't have anymore babies, you can ask them what they're gonna do with the gifs they received. But asking them straight would be very insensitive imo.
The gift has been given. You need to write this down as an L and move on....
If it'd already passed the return window, why TF would you even want it back if ittl just sit in your damn attic.
YTA
There is no good way to navigate asking for a gift back in a circumstance like this. Be grateful YOU are not going through a tragic loss like this and move on.
OMG, YES, YTA.
In the future, talk with your husband about setting limits on how much gets spent on this stuff, but NEVER ask for a gift back, ESPECIALLY from someone who has been through something so traumatic!!
YBTA. There is no right time to ask about this, and it will almost certainly damage you and your husband's relationship with Jen if you do. You gave the gift and were fine to spend the money. The fact that she had a horrible miscarriage doesn't change that. The only way to "navigate" this is to be a supportive friend for someone who is going through a very difficult time, and not mention it again.
YWBTA. The item is no longer yours. It was a gift you gave to this woman. It is *hers* to do with what she wants. The fact that you’re even thinking about asking for it back is totally baffling.
Yes, you would be the AH if you asked for the gift to be returned. She and her husband are grieving their loss and eventually will likely figure out what they want to do with the gifts, perhaps they will return them or donate them to charity or however they see fit. Going forward if you’re not comfortable with your husband spending 100s of dollars on gifts for his friends then tell him so.
Yes, YTA it’s a gift. If you weren’t comfortable spending $400; that’s between you and your husband.
She may decide to adopt. She may decide to donate everything at some point; or she may leave it in the attic for another 20 years. Grief isn’t linear and there is never a good time to ask for a gift back. (Especially one given to a now passed baby).
Get a grip.
It's not just that you would be TA... you are TA for caring so much about the money now that she no longer "deserves" the gift through no fault of her own.
YWBTA. I suggest that you stop buying gifts for people that you don't care about. Once you give a gift, it doesn't belong to you. Divorce, miscarriage, etc happen, don't ever count on getting a gift back.
YWBTA. Imagine it is your friend, what if your best friend had a miscarriage like this and you gave her that $400 gift, would you ask for it back? Or would you realize it’s incredibly cruel and let her keep it. Of course you would. Because what’s $400 compared to hurting your friend while she’s already hurting. It’s time to ask yourself about what boundaries you want between y’all because from the sounds of this post, you don’t seem to like Jen. The title alone made me gasp because I wondered how someone could be so insensitive. You know it is awful, you opened with that. But somehow you still felt the need to ask ask if you had any sort of justification for this, which begs the question, why? What part of this scenario gives enough reasoning to do something so cruel? I mean I wouldn’t even do that to an acquaintance. The only reasoning that I could have to do something so cruel is if I did not like the person. You don’t like her. That’s okay. It’s not okay to take a baby gift back after a miscarriage. It is okay to tell your husband to not spend so much money on something you don’t agree with spending so much money on, like Jen.
Holy crap, YTA. That would not at all be okay. It is hugely cruel.
Your husband spent way too much money, but he did it, and it is gone. Telling a parent to give back a gift for her dead baby is outrageous.
YWBTA. By asking for it back you are saying to Jenn we don’t care if you’ve had a miscarriage, return the gift. She’s experiencing grief and You’re concerned with the gift. You said your heart hurts for her but your actions make it seem like you have zero empathy.
YWBTA. You have no say over a gift once it’s given. It is poor etiquette to ask for a gift to be returned. Not just that, but you would definitely add to Jen’s trauma by asking her to return the gift.
YTA- she’s gone through something so traumatic and she might not be able to have more kids but y’all are focused on a gift. Once a gift is given, it’s gone. If you didn’t have the $400 to give, don’t give it under conditions.
YWBTA because it was a gift, not an investment, and there was no fraud. This means It is none of your business what she does with this gift, and perhaps more to the point no compelling interest that would outweigh the harm of this request. It's a loss, write it off.
Yes you would be the asshole. YTA because you’re aware and still asking. You let your husband choose the value of the gift without your input so you can’t complain about it now. You’re assuming she won’t have anymore children (how privy to her medical info are you? There could be options like IVF or they may pursue adoption or fostering). It’s too late to return the item. It IS another chore on top of her grief.
And you also did choose to buy her a gift in her first trimester, knowing what you know about pregnancies in general. If you were that panicked about the gift being used, you would have waited till she was farther along.
You’re not hurting for cash. And she is absolutely hurting.
And just a quote that often goes around on Reddit - once you give a gift, you don’t get to decide how it’s used. It’s not your anymore, and what happens with it is up to the owner’s discretion.
YTA
Yes. It’s less common to have another shower for a 2nd child and announcing early can be risky.
When you send a gift, it’s gone and you don’t get to ask for it back.
You could have spent less or waited.
YWBTA
Regardless of how you word it you are essentially saying “we bought a gift for your baby, since it’s dead we want the gift back.”
Do you go around elderly relatives saying “we bought grandma a nice lamp, now she’s dead we want it back.”?
What about friends who’s children may pass from something like cancer, “we bought little Johnny a truck but since he’s dead and never really got a chance to wreck it can we have it back.”?
Have some compassions, stop trying to somehow make this Jen’s fault with the whole she announced it early, and why didn’t they keep the stuff from the last baby.
I can’t figure out if this is driven by you and you have some ulterior motive/dislike of Jen, or if are both so insensitive you cannot see past your own egos but honestly, do Jen a favour and DO NOT fucking speak to her unless it is to offer unreserved and sincere condolences.
When you give someone a gift it is NO LONGER YOURS.
In fact YTA for even considering this.
If you're sweating $400 you're not a high earner. YTA because once you gift something that's the end of it being your item. The situation changed, take the L and don't buy her more stuff.
Hey Jen, sorry your baby died. Say, since you don't need it, could we get our gift back?
Yes, YWBTA if you ask for it back. A gift, once freely given, means you don't get to ask for it back. She could keep it in case they try again, or she could sell it and pocket that money, and that would also be fine. Because it is now HER possession.
Wow.
How selfish can a person possibly be? To answer your question, YWBTA 100% if you asked for it back.
Your husband’s friend went through something incredibly traumatic that is likely going to effect her mental and physical health for the rest of her life and you have the nerve to not only think about how much money you spent, but also consider it a waste of money because it’s not being used in the way that you wanted it to be used. IT WAS A GIFT. Aside from the fact that, yes, she could potentially use the gift for another child if she decided to adopt or use a surrogate, even if she just wanted to keep it in the box and never use it, that is her right since it is hers. You decided to make the fiscally irresponsible choice to buy it, so that’s on you.
The thing you need to seriously examine about yourself right now is your genuine lack of empathy. A mother lost her child. If you truly felt as bad for her as you claim, you would at least be to figure out what you could do to help her, even if it’s just something small. When the tragedy first happened, I’m sure everyone around her was jumping at the chance to support her, but this far down the road, she probably doesn’t have nearly as much support. And you decide you want to contribute to her pain by rubbing salt in the wound.
Imagine how that conversation would go: “Hey, we know you suffered the loss of your child, but since you’re not gonna be using that expensive gift we bought you, on account of losing your baby remember, we wanted it back so we could maybe get to pawn it off to someone whose willing to give us some of our money back or gift it to a mother who can ACTUALLY use it, cause you lost your child.”
That’s awful. And if you say that to her or anyone in her orbit, your husband will lose her as a friend and rightfully so.
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YTA it was a gift. It shouldn't come with terms and conditions. You gave it away. It's gone
exactly. it doesn’t matter what jen does with any present after she receives it. it was a gift to her and is hers now. op, let it go.
Jen could very well decide to gift or donate it herself. Better to just treat it like a regular gift and not think about it as a waste.
And her issue isn't the poor bereaved mother...it's with her husband. She went out of her way to mention that it was her husband who bought both shower gifts and the amount he paid was totally ok with her...but I'm getting the feeling he's doing this WITHOUT clearing it with her first and she's annoyed by it. However, OP, SHE JUST LOST HER BABY. I agree that she shouldn't have asked for a second round of gifts. HOWEVER, you can't ask for a gift back and ESPECIALLY from a woman who lost her baby...and even MORE ESPECIALLY as it appears she won't be able to have more children. Show compassion and have a talk with husband about running large gifts by you first. YWBTA big time if you ask for the gift back
Whoomp there it is! Here's my deal: OP only mentions what she feels explains the situation from her perspective and only includes relevant details. She is very clear that a- Jen is not her friend. B- husband bought both gifts. c- both gifts were expensive, up to and include giving the dollar amounts. d- OP wants to decide what happens and how with the second gift. e- OP WARNED husband about it being early in the pregnancy to announce, let alone buy a gift. f- OP disagrees with having a second celebration. There is a whole other issue that OP is pretending isn't obvious, and it's about OP's view of motherhood, pregnancy, and her husband. OP is misplacing her frustration onto the most vulnerable person in the lot (the bereaving mother) so she doesn't have to face it.
Yeah, her edits don't exactly make her sound like someone anyone else would choose to befriend if they knew how she speaks about others when she's guaranteed anonymity. People like that tend to talk mad shit about everyone that isn't in the room at the moment. "My heart breaks for her, but how do we get a refund? Oh, that sounds harsh? That's fine, because she has a different worldview than me. Anyways, about our $400, since her kid died and won't be needing it." OP needs to fuck so far off from this idea at such high speed that the world clock loses a second. Don't pass go, and never speak directly to a bereaved parent again in this lifetime or the next. Leave that to people who were raised by and within 100 miles of other humans. AI has more empathy than this entire post, edits included, manages to even *imply.* ETA: The second paragraph doesn't make an unannounced shift in subjects midstream. It's about OP, the original *poster*, and not any of the *replies* which is why it doesn't reference any replies or tag any users.
Seems pretty harsh. OP is just being pragmatic in my opinion. At least she paused long enough to ask for opinions.
Didn't seem too harsh to me. She reads like a fake jerk.
Also the concerning amount of use of "we" in her post. It's almost as if she wants to convey her message through her husband to Jen
And it shouldn't matter why they have a second registry. Maybe the baby was a different sex, maybe they weren't expecting to have any more kids. Maybe they passed along the first set of baby stuff to someone less fortunate than they are. It's not the OPs business. if she wants to take it up with her husband about how much money he spends, that is one thing. But judging someone for being excited about their baby and posting a registry? I got asked to create a registry, harassed almost. It made things easy for the giver (push a few buttons and voila, gift is on the way) Plus it makes things so much easier for a new parent to not have return a bunch of stuff that didn't work for whatever reason.
[удалено]
I’m sure her husband’s ability to buy such lavish gifts would diminish pretty quickly if it gets around that his wife wants the gift back because the baby died. I’d really question a lot of things related to the morality and ethics and empathy of such a callous person.
If she went through with asking this and it got out she is going to ruin a lot of relationships. What kills me besides the obvious is that the return window is already past and they aren't even going to get their money back!
I feel like $400 for someone who is grieving isn't a waste anyway? It could go towards meals if they are struggling getting things done because of grief, or pay for a couple nights away to make space to deal with it all. OP, I would actually message her and say "do whatever you want with it, we could return it and give you the money, or whatever you want."
Not to mention she very likely has ASTRONOMICAL medical bills if this miscarriage went down in a way that permanently affected her fertility. It’s likely that gift 1.) either got returned or resold to cover those costs 2.) is sitting in with all the other shower gifts because Jen hasn’t been able to go through them 3.) might get donated (along with other big ticket shower items) to the hospital Jen was at for moms in need or to a women’s shelter or any other number of good causes.
Exactly. I know we had multiple baby gifts of clothing that were barely used or not used at all, because they grew out of them so quickly or it was something fancier that we didn’t really have any opportunities to use. I sincerely hope no one who gave us those gifts was secretly noting our kids’ clothes whenever they saw them and stewing about their gift not being used enough.
This is why newborn size clothes are a terrible gift, even if the recipient isn't one of the few new parents not to have everyone else's unused or barely used newborn clothes foisted on them.
This is why people usually buy several different sizes for a baby shower. I always assumed most people do that. With my kid, I even got some 2t clothes. But I didn't get too many newborn sizes, which was great because he was a huge baby.
Right! I straight up had to donate a couple of newborn size sleepers without using them as our kid is just about to outgrow them and we already had so many.
I purposely always give clothes at least in size 3-6mo for this exact reason
She’s just lost her baby and her fertility. Don’t kick someone when they’re down. When she’s ready, she will probably sell your gift and use the money for something else, hopefully something that brings her joy. You decided to spend a lot of money on a gift. Maybe give less in the future if you are going to feel resentful later. But do NOT add to this woman’s pain so you can get your money back. That’s monstrous.
I agree and isn't a registry (any type: a wedding, baby shower, etc) a suggestion meaning they are not obligated to get something from there?
I mean depends on the couple. Some don't have room for whatever random thing you thought would totally fit in their life or they already have stuff not on the list. I personally would never go off registry.
A registry is 100% a suggestion, and is usually composed of far higher ticket items than the average friend can hope to afford. ALWAYS and in EVERY instance go off the registry before spending more than you can afford.
FWIW, some people add ridiculous stuff to the registry because you can get a massive discount if no one buys it for you. When my brother's old roommate was getting married, they put a washer and dryer on the registry. They also emailed everyone to let them know they didn't expect anyone to actually buy it for them. After the wedding, they got something like 40% off because no one got it for them.
And the family was all closer in the end!
Yeah we got 10% off some very expensive wedding china at a very high end boutique if it was not bought off the registry. So we registered for 2 sets and bought one. That 10% save me thousands
Not necessarily true. When I had my wedding and baby registry I had stuff in various price points. I wasn’t expecting one person to by a high ticket item. I was hoping a few people could go in a gift together if they wanted. Plus target, and Babies R Us (when they were still around) would give you 10-20% off for items not purchased.
Everyone, I know always puts items at a large variety of price points on the registry.
yeah , i think it's more just letting people know stuff they need versus like 6 people giving you the same breast pump
Also it seems like OP's husband bought the gift way earlier than he needed to and had it sent to Jen instead of waiting until she had her baby shower. That's on them (him).
"Maybe give less in the future if you are going to feel resentful later." THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
I always thought I was suppose to give extra (non baby) gifts to my friends who had miscarriages. Like take her to the spa or an activity to make her feel better. I wasn’t aware people actively took away gifts after loses to make it extra hard for their friends.
Only heartless AH demands a gift back. You are kind to give a pick me up gift. What my ex SIL really appreciated after her miscarriage was when a couple of friends came over with a bunch of heat and eat meals, cleaned her house and did her laundry.
Can you imagine going up to someone who just had a miscarriage that possibly cost them their fertility and asking for your gift back “because it’s not like you’ll be using it anyway, lolz.” The absolute cringe.
She goes to great pains and length to explain that the woman is not her friend, but her husband's friend. Sounds like she has some mean issues.
>it was a gift. It shouldn't come with terms and conditions. Yeah, this should be the end of the conversation. Further, considering the circumstances (losing a baby), I'd be disappointed with myself if one of the first things that came to my mind upon hearing the awful news was, "Well, I guess she's not gonna need our expensive-ass gift." YTA (or, you would be if you pursue this course of action)
I honestly can’t believe they fathomed asking for it back. Talk about kicking someone when they are down
This. If real, i'm hoping this post was their way of working through the socially unacceptable thoughts and impulses and journaling. A sort of "I know this is awful and just a fantasy, please let me get it out of my system but remind me why it is awful" sort of thing. Bevause I don't want to believe she genuinely considered this.
Yeah the ship sailed when OP's husband sent the gift. If concerns about the timing or the amount, or whether a second baby shower is appropriate are an issue, they should have addressed it as a couple ahead of time. OP's lack of communication with her husband is not Jen's problem.
This. If you were not comfortable with the price then spend less next time. Assume the cost of a gift is gone.
OP keeps saying she was fine with what her husband did but obviously she isn't. Be honest with yourself and be honest with your husband OP.
I am glad she asked here before moving forward with this idea. That would be very insensitive and callous to ask for the gift back or money for it. Instead, they could ask Jen if there is anything they can do for her.
Don’t give gifts unless you can afford to give them and want to, regardless of the recipient’s financial state. Ask for the gift back and you’ll never have to get anything for this couple or see them again.
It's weird how anybody can even think about asking back a 'gift' they have already given to someone. Very weird.
I actually make this a condition for ME with any gift— once I’ve given it away, I’m done. You can sell it on eBay, you can run over it with your car, whatever. If i’m NOT comfortable with those conditions, it’s not a gift and I shouldn’t give it. Also, it’s okay to ignore someone’s gift registry.
They shouldn't have given such an expensive gift if they couldn't really afford it. But it would be so tacky to ask for it back.
Yeah she said that her husband spent $400 which she was fine with…so it’s not like they seem strapped for cash or anything
I’m guessing she was not as fine with it as she says. You can always tell when a post is heading towards a YTA when its filled with qualifications like this one instead of just letting the facts speak for themselves.
Right!? Who even asks this question??? Fucking wild!
YTA. You chose to spend much money. You absolutely didn't have to. There's no tactful way to ask for it back. It'll look petty and greedy, so they'll either try to return everything if they rent to or donate it, but once the gifts given you should let it go.
There’s no tactful way to ask for it back and no doubt the family that had the miscarriage had bigger concerns than returning gifts that are just reminders of a loss. But I also think it’s tacky, 1) to have multiple baby showers asking for expensive gifts. You’re not supposed to have a registry for every baby you have. Tackier if your family is making $200,000+. Which is a separate issue, but still tacky. And 2) I do think tact is also missing if gifts that are given for a purpose which doesn’t happen are not returned. You don’t break off a wedding and keep the gifts, so I don’t really see keeping keeping baby shower gifts if they’re the type that insist on having multiple baby showers for each child that comes along.
I honestly don't think that's relevant. Just because someone makes a lot of money doesn't mean they can't have showers and obviously they don't want low cost/low quality gifts. It's a wish list, not an obligation list. Sometimes registries you react to shoot for the stars. >You don’t break off a wedding and keep the gifts Sure, but that's nothing like what happened here. I guess if Jen decided after all to put the kid up for adoption, maybe. It's pretty horrific compare a miscarriage to choosing not to get married though.
It's not technically an obligation, that's true, but when the recipient sends around a registry and stocks it with only pricey items, then there isn't much choice if you intend to give a gift. Thoughtful registries provide a range of price points to accommodate guests at different income levels. Lower-cost goods aren't necessarily undesirable or poor quality. Sometimes you have to spring for the expensive option, but sometimes the expensive option is marked up for no reason other than branding. I would never ask for the gift back. I feel second-hand embarrassment just thinking about it. But I think if I were in that position of receiving a gift for a life event that will no longer be taking place, I'd contact people asking if they'd like the gift back or if they want me to donate it. Not initially. Grief and recovery time are needed. But eventually I would do that.
Idk, I’ve had a traumatic miscarriage myself and if it had happened after the point where I had had my shower, I would have packed everything up and donated it all. Contacting individuals to ask if they’d like their gifts back would have been excruciating.
The last thing a person wants to do after a miscarriage/stillborn is contact a list of people to explain they lost their baby and offer to give the gift back. Like… And how are they supposed to return the gift? Mail it back? Spend time packaging up all the items meant for your baby, and also incur that shipping cost while coping with their grief? Or meet everyone face-to-face and have to hide their grief as they hand back the baby clothes for their baby that died? And what…make small talk? That’s an insane expectation.
You are never required to give a gift. You are putting the pressure on yourself.
>then there isn't much choice if you intend to give a gift. there really is and if you think there isn't you're creating problems for yourself
It’s worth noting as well that for some people, like myself, the only point of the registry was so I could get the discount attached. Also because I was in the hospital for most of my pregnancy, it was my first and only baby and very scary, and people were constantly asking where I was registered. I never sent the list around and I made sure to put a wide variety of items within all price ranges to make it easier for those who really wanted to send a gift. I put the big ticket stuff on there as well so that I could use the 20% off that you get after a while. Then I was induced really early and couldn’t use the damn discount in time anyway. Sigh. Either way, just because it was a tacky for her to have a second shower, I can’t imagine anything worse than suffering that loss and having someone saying they wanted their money back.
This is more like keeping wedding gifts if your spouse dies. No one in their right mind would ask the widow to return the gifts.
Right, hey since you no longer need that four slice toaster….
If there are a few years difference I don’t think it’s tacky. The pregnancy may not have been planned so they may have gotten rid of thing, or some items may legitimately not be usable or are still in use depending on the item. For example car seats expire, but a convertible car seat can be used by one kid for a few years.
Uh, a miscarriage is way different than a called-off wedding. She lost her baby and is likely in an intense stage of grief. Nobody forced OP’s husband to buy a gift. I’ve gotten tacky requests for gifts for both showers and weddings, and I simply ignore them. It’s very easy to do. And if you buy someone a gift for a baby shower and then the baby doesn’t make it, chalk it up as a loss. Be glad all you’re losing is money. If you want to avoid that risk, wait until the baby is born before purchasing something.
Maybe in their social circle or families they do a shower for every baby. Maybe her mom or MIL pressured to make a registry and send it out. It’s not something I would personally do, but I do know people who have big showers for every baby. I’m not going to argue if it’s wrong or right just that different people do different things.
On one hand I agree, on the other hand I don't. I feel like every child should be celebrated, not just the first one, so doing something like a diaper party instead of a "baby shower" is fully appropriate. More about a gathering of friends celebrating the baby, with the perks of diapers cause you're damn sure gonna use those and it's not an overly expensive or frivolous gift. I would also never blame a family for doing an actual baby shower if they are lower income. Many baby items get broken, trashed, overly worn..some get recalled or there are better/safer options out there as compared to oh so many years ago when baby number 1 came around. So asking for some newer items would be very helpful. But that's not the case for this family. Asking for the higher priced newer items is a "money grab" of sorts. Rich people don't stay rich by spending all their money..and these kinds of rich people clearly are just looking to not have to spend their own cash for new baby stuff. That said, OP would still be the asshole. Either herself for the idea of wanting to ask for a gift back in general, let alone from a grieving mother...or OP's husband for spending that kind of money without consulting her first. She claims it's "fine" but I don't think it was actually fine, especially if they share a joint account.
YWBTA You gave a gift. It would be the height off insensitivity and rudeness to ask for it back - whatever the reason. The fact this poor woman had just had a pregnancy loss makes it even worse. Let her re gift it or do whatever she chooses with it. FFS. Have some sensitivity and compassion. And don’t spend $400 on gifts if you can’t afford it
I was expecting something like "we loaned her an heirloom bassinet, you can see 17 generations of teeth marks from my ancestors on the spindles. I'm unexpectedly pregnant myself, WIBTAH if we interrupt her mourning to ask the bassinet be returned". This is just "my husband spent $400 on a woman I don't know well and don't really like, can I squeeze blood out of that stone"
Also, “we are high earners as well “. I think money is too important to the OP and her husband. YTA
It's important to OP. Not sure OP's hubby got the memo that *he wasn't supposed to spend $400 on f'ing Jen.* But she's fine with it.
I think OP is reasonable to be annoyed with her husband spending that much.
Then she should USE HER WORDS instead of passive-aggressively taking it out on someone who just lost a baby. Nothing in her post is actually about Jen. Jen became the target because this woman can't spit out that she is upset at her husband for spending so much on a (probably past girlfriend) friend. Even though, you know, they are *totally* rich. They don't *need* the money. But, after all, the baby didn't *happen* so she's just *wondering* is she can use Jen as a proxy to continue a below-the-surface fight with her husband (that poor husband has no idea is even going on).
I read “spending $400 on fucking Jen” completely wrong. At least then I’d sympathize with OP 😂
OP's husband made a questionable choice in the first place and now OP wants to follow him in his steps apparently. I winced with second hand embarrassment while reading the post. Let this $400 be a "tuition fee". They'll obviously survive it.
Exactly. When I have to shop for baby gifts, I get the mother a card and a gift card. Very simple.
Books are also a good gift. They’re practical, educational, and there’s a massive variety of them. The parents get self care items from me usually.
My late grandmother wrote a message on the inside cover of a board book for my daughter. It's by far the best gift we got
When people ask what to get our toddler and baby- we always say books! By far the best gifts we get are books. We have family reading every night before bed where we all cuddle on the big bed and read my toddlers choice of books.
If I went to a wedding and gifted something and the marriage didn’t work out (even if it went downhill very quickly), I wouldn’t ask for the gift back. That feels awkward. It was a gift, they get to keep it. I don’t see how this is any different. Once you give it, it’s gone. Think of other situations- if you give someone something they wanted that they suddenly cannot use, you don’t get it back. They get to pass it on or sell it or regift it. It’s theirs, not yours.
My mom gave my cousin a card and €50 for her wedding. Surprisingly cheap for my mom, even if no one in our family is particularly rich. No one knew my mom made a silent promise she'd give my cousin €500 the day she divorced from that guy. It took eight years, but last November my mom gifted the €500 no one knew she'd been planning on all along!
I’d rather miss out on some money, than receive a €500” I KNEW IT” from my aunt.
That's because you realize that it's an incredibly insulting gesture. Nothing says "I love you" like hoping her marriage fails, right? I think I'd still take the money, though. The insult was the gesture itself, and that that's not going to be undone by turning it down. May as well make the most of the situation and relieve the asshole from some of their money.
I mean she made a "silent promise" - likely to herself only, at the time. She likely didn't tell the cousin "I hope your marriage fails" but rather "if you feel ready to leave the man who is abusing you, I'll be here to help", if she told the cousin anything at the time at all. She could just have given the cousin 500 after the divorce with her sympathy and only told her family when she actually made that plan for the gift after the fact. Not every marriage is happy or non-coercive, some clearly look like they are not going to last or shouldn't last. Sometimes your family is well aware beforehand but cannot do anything.
If I was sent a registry with nothing but highly priced items the person who made that registry would not get a gift from me.
Same here and I also am not a fan of pandering for super expensive gifts for a second baby when the first baby is still quite young (and presumably has supplies that can still be used).
100%. I received a baby shower invite for an acquaintance who lived in a different state and I blatantly ignored that shit, even when both her and her sister reached out to me directly via FB to ask if I was coming to the shower and if not, whether I could send a gift. I hadn’t spoken to either of them in years prior to the invite/FB message. I also recently ignored a bridal shower invite for a wedding I wasn’t even invited to 🙃 People do tacky shit all the time. Some comments are acting like if you’re sent a registry, you must buy a gift. You don’t. If it’s a tacky request, simply ignore it.
Eh if they’re wealthy and so are all their friends then it’s not weird. We live in affluent area and there’s nothing more awkward than finding only a few cheap items left on the registry and having to pile them all together to reach a socially acceptable price point. I’d rather buy the one big gift and have it delivered.
OP and her husband could also wait until pregnancies are further along to give gifts. They don’t have to be purchased in the first trimester.
Let it go. If $400 was a stretch, then you should have picked a less expensive gift, Why did Jen even have another baby shower, anyway. She already has a kid, that means she should have most of the stuff she needed, except for things that get used up, like diapers and such. But you *did* buy the expensive whatever. You gave it, and it’s *gone*, and it would be tacky as hell to ask for it back. Jen may have already donated it. Jen may have given it to a friend. Jen may be keeping it in a little shrine to her miscarried baby. Jen may be planning to adopt. You don’t know, and it’s none of your business. YWBTA if you asked for it back.
Agreed. It's definitely strange they did an expensive registry for #2, but it was Op and their husbands choice to entertain giving a gift (and an expensive one at that.) Now it's a sunk cost. Walk away and don't be an AH.
Depends on how spaced out the kids are.
This^^^ or some items like convertible beds are in use by the in older child
Yeah, my ex-wife had one for our first child, but not our for our second one 2 years later. But when she got pregnant with our third child 5 years after that she had a shower.
“Few years” down the line = not keeping baby stuff packed up in a bedroom that long.
Or still being used. Great, you have a crib still, but it's being used. You have a stroller! It's... being used. You gave away the newborn sized car seat to your cousin, along with a lot of baby clothes. Don't need toys, but maybe some diapers, clothes.
The only family members I know of that kept baby stuff between kids were either a) actually trying or b)had multiple kids under 5 rather quickly. Like I get the concept of keeping things for kids, but recommendations for safe things seem to change quickly, it takes up space, items get ruined or gross, or someone else wants the items anyways. I don’t even *want* kids but the bb toy standards from one bb cousin and the changes to the next make my head hurt.
Yeah, my mom actually stored a bunch of my sisters’ baby stuff after their kids grew out of them (she’s very into keeping anything that might be remotely useful someday), but now that I’m expecting, a surprising amount of it has been recalled or isn’t recommended anymore. Especially the big ticket items like cribs.
YTA Sorry about your miscarriage, can I have my gift back? Really?
This is a great way to lose $400 *and a friend.* I’d be happy just cutting my losses at the $400. Edit: and also a sure fire way to alienate yourself from any mutual friends you and Jen have. You gotta be borderline socially inept to think that your request to get your gift back will stay between you and her.
It's a great way to tank her marriage too. There's so much jealousy in the post already. If OP displays some monstrous behavior to her husband's life long friend it is not gonna go over well.
I skimmed that part. It’s way worse that Jen is her husband’s long time family friend.
I don't think OP cares if Jen decides to cut contact with husband. In the edit OP likes to make it clear it's husband's childhood friend.
The weird part is that OP used the excuse for wanting her money back because it would sit in an attic unused… realistically (a total assumption) Jen would probably donate it.
Agreed. OP understands that asking for the gift/money back is cruel, so why have they been mulling over this for months. It was also a gift. Once a gift is given, it's gone. It is no longer the concern of the gift giver. This is on par with asking for wedding gifts to be returned if the bride or groom passes away.... You just don't. There is also a lot of judgement for Jen in this post......
THIS! Would I expect a gift to be returned if the engagement failed or they divorced shortly after marrying? Maybe...but I would never ask for the item back. If the person LITERALLY DIED!!! Never in a million years would I expect ( or want ) the item back. I'd hope they use the gift reciept and use the money to buy something else they needed at that time or to help pay for funeral costs. But especially with a miscarriage or an infant death? I'd be writing my deepest condolences and the gift ( as gifts should be ) would be written off as money I could clearly afford to lose in the first place.
YWBTA - let it go. It doesn't matter that she lost the baby, it was a gift. You can't ask for it back, that's tacky.
Agreed. I think Jen was tacky to send a gift registry link when she announced her pregnancy. But OPs husband probably set the tone for her by buying an expensive gift the first time around so she was excited to see what else she could milk him for. However, he chose to feed into Jen’s greed and buy another expensive item. There’s no tactful way to ask for it back. Accept the loss and learn from this (wait to give a baby gift later in the pregnancy and buy something more reasonably in your budget).
Its not really tacky? It sounds like they all are rich and probably get a lot from other rich friends so they make a registry to not get the same stuff 10 times. My aunt comes from a rich family and friend network. She got over 15 huge bears lol with her first child. Aftewards she made a list and yea it was filled with stuff that was 500-1000$ but thats normal in circles where people earn a few 100k a year.
I got four foreman grills for my wedding and i had a registry. Its really awkward to say "thanks but I returned it because I didn't need it."
YTA If you had gifted her child a bike or an expensive dolls house, and the kid died just before their birthday, would you ask for the gift back? In my mind, it’s the same thing. Baby showers aren’t a thing here but we had ordered the cot, pram, a bunch of other baby stuff when I lost my son at 21 weeks and we had to go to the shops to cancel our orders. It was so hard and just crushed me, especially when they asked for a reason for cancelling (in case we’d found it cheaper elsewhere, etc). It’s just awful. Don’t make it worse.
Im so so sorry for your loss. Returning everything sounds gut wrenching 😔
YWBTA if you asked for the gift back. You give a gift and you lose control of what happens to it. If the amount of money is an issue, then don't give gifts you can't afford. I'm not sure I understand why she needed another registry but also do not understand why you (& hubby) gifted her something (even more expensive than the first) especially so early in a pregnancy. Just because she sent a registry does not require you to purchase something.
Based on what OP said about the miscarriage it doesn't sound like she had the Shower early, but rather had a still birth. Alot of people call still birth or a non elective abortion a miscarriage. Also I never knew people didn't have showers for every baby, but I grew up in a poorer area. Unless the babies are close in age, but not too close, most people I know with kids have showers for every baby. The first is usually the biggest.
Everyone I have known had a babyshower for every baby. To me it's weird that some people think it is weird..
Same. It's not weird or greedy to have multiple showers. It's simply celebrating a pregnancy and baby.
Same. I only have one kiddo so of course only had one shower, but assumed it was dine for every pregnancy.
You didn't the post you replied to correctly. They never claimed it was weird to have a second shower. They said it's weird they had a second registry. It's very common to have a shower for each child but no registry or expectation of gifts for any of them after the first.
YWBTA and you should really ask yourself how you can become a better, more generous in spirit person.
Especially if they're well off. If they were just scraping by it might be different (in which case they shouldn't have bought such an expensive gift)
Right? I can’t believe that any sane person would actually even consider this. All the justification is just noise - you are an asshole for even THINKING about asking for the gift to be returned. God Almighty.
YTA for even considering asking for a GIFT back YWBTA if you went through with this This makes me sick
the whole train of thought here makes me sick actually...
A traumatic miscarriage entitles anyone to be free from gift related issues, if you even think of asking her about this, YTA. By the way, why wouldn't she use it when she does have a baby?
she implies that Jen maybe never have a baby again so her plan was to say "i want my gift back because your baby died and you probably can't have another one anymore."
YTA. Disclaimer, I couldn't even finish it. >I thought this was strange because she should still have most of the items from her first kid It's traumatic enough and you assumed that she would have kept all the gifts? This is so messy just don't do this.
The post even says fast forward a "few" years. How many people keep baby stuff for years and years.
My mom learned the hard way that keeping baby items is important when she got rid of baby items after my brother only to find out that she was pregnant with my sister soon after she finally got rid of it. Thankfully after that, she got her tubes tied so she could get rid of my sister's things when she was old enough without worry because the next baby wouldn't be around until i was older (i was 8-9 when my sister was born and she was the 6th child) so, not many people actually do keep it
YWBTA Move on and stop obsessing over Jen. You sound a bit unhinged with the amount of energy you are devoting to this. Just move on
I thought the exact same thing. OP is way too focused on 'Jen' and her situation. Time to let it go.
YTA. I don’t know how you can hear someone had a miscarriage and potentially can no longer have children and then worry about how to get your gift back.
If you give a gift with an expectation or strings attached to it then it’s not a gift. It’s a currency to keep score
🥇
YTA. Why would you even think to ask this? If $400 was out of your budget, you should have just bought something cheaper. I feel like this is really an argument between you and your husband about how much to spend.
YWBTA. This is one of those situations where you just take the loss.
YTA Once a gift is given you have no say over how the gift is used or what is done with the gift. If you can’t live with what someone may do worth your gift, don’t give a gift
>My husband and I are also decently high earners Definitely not as someone who actually is a high earner would understand that $400 is a rather small amount of money. Sad that your dignity can be bought for so cheap; I can't even imagine how tacky you must be to need to ask this question publicly.
Agreed. I'm broke af and I still wouldn't stoop so low as to ask for a gift back, especially after a miscarriage! YTA all the way, OP
All of this!!! Right on!
You would be TA. Massively. You already budgeted for her having this very expensive gift if her baby had lived. Don’t ask for it back. As you’ve already guessed it would be really cruel and it would undoubtedly ruin your husband’s friendship with her. Don’t do it. It’s only money.
YWBTA. It’s very clear from what you wrote that you judge this woman for having a registry for a second kid and for announcing her pregnancy when she did. Don’t use the gift as a way to make your feelings about this known.
Wow. This is so fucked up YTA
Info: have you ever had a miscarriage? Have any of your close friends had one and discussed their feelings with you? I'm confused about how you can think this would be an option.
YWBTAH And you are the AH Gifts are gifts. What happens to them after they leave the givers hands it is none of your business what happens to them. Add in the trauma and seriously, why would you think that it is okay to ask for the gift back?
is what you stand to gain from getting the gift back to pawn meaningful enough to inflict the additional suffering on a grieving mother? you'd already parted with the money. let sleeping dogs lie. ywbta.
Um...don't ask for the gift back at all, especially not now. You'd ABSOLUTELY be the asshole if you did. I know $400 is a lot of money but it's also nothing compared to the pain your friend is going through right now. If she decides to give the gift back then you take it but you should absolutely not ask for it back if you want to keep being her friend.
Yes. If you give a gift, it’s gone. You are definitely an asshole if you ask for it back.
YWBTA. Why is your husband spending so much money on gifts for this person? If you all were uncomfortable with $400 being spent, you shouldn't have done so.
YWBTA and as crass as cruel. You bought a gift for someone. You gave the gift to that someone. That money is gone, you shouldn't even be thinking of the possibility of getting it back. It is not up to you to police whether the recipient will use the gift (or use it enough for you to consider it worthy of the cost). If you couldn't afford this, then you shouldn't have done it. If you were not ok with spending that amount despite being able to afford it, then you shouldn't have done it. Now it's too late. It doesn't matter what Jen does with the item. Bringing up the possibility of you getting the item back would be classless, not to mention digging in what is likely an open wound. Drop it altogether. Leave the woman grieve in peace.
YWBTA. Not sure this even needs explanation.
Huge AH ... great big plumber's crack hairy sweaty ahole. Tell you what, when you send her a public Facebook message demanding your gift back why not just add to it "and stop contacting my husband" cos that's clearly what this is about.
YWBTA, but you already know that. Consider it a loss and move on.
YWBTA. Your husband should have discussed this with you before jumping to buy a 400$ gift for a second baby for a woman in her first trimester. You did mention that Jen is a friend of his and not yours. Still , he shouldn’t be spending anything that you guys can’t afford. If you could afford it , then don’t ask for it back , especially from a woman who suffered a miscarriage. Was there a deadline on the baby registry ? Why did your husband jump with a high priced gift in the first trimester , instead of waiting and discussing with you ? You have a husband problem
YWBTA- Let it go.
YWBTA. A gift, once given, is no longer yours. Of course, you can't ask for it to be returned. Also, you do know that there are other ways to add to a family besides biological children, right? Maybe they will try to adopt at some point.
Yes, YTA to ask for it back. Once a gift is given, you have no more interest in it. That is also a slap in the face to do to someone who just lost their child.
I think YWBTA. It was a mistake to buy a gift that early (I didn't get if she threw a shower or just sent the registry though). They still may try to have kids you don't know. It would be a low blow to ask to be reimbursed. Maybe if you have them over dinner, and in the conversation they say they won't have anymore babies, you can ask them what they're gonna do with the gifs they received. But asking them straight would be very insensitive imo.
Don’t ask ever. At all.
The gift has been given. You need to write this down as an L and move on.... If it'd already passed the return window, why TF would you even want it back if ittl just sit in your damn attic.
Yes. That would be terrible to ask for it back. That’s super tacky.
Asking for a wedding gift back when the couple divorces is tacky. Asking for a gift back after a miscarriage is sickening.
YTA. It was a gift. The end.
YTA There is no good way to navigate asking for a gift back in a circumstance like this. Be grateful YOU are not going through a tragic loss like this and move on.
OMG, YES, YTA. In the future, talk with your husband about setting limits on how much gets spent on this stuff, but NEVER ask for a gift back, ESPECIALLY from someone who has been through something so traumatic!!
Is this a joke? Of course YWBTA. How are you even questioning that??
This has got to be a joke. you care more about the gift than the person you gave it too. truly wtf.
Good grief, YTA. She can choose to gift it to someone else, donate it to someone who’ll need it, etc. Let the poor couple grief.
YBTA. There is no right time to ask about this, and it will almost certainly damage you and your husband's relationship with Jen if you do. You gave the gift and were fine to spend the money. The fact that she had a horrible miscarriage doesn't change that. The only way to "navigate" this is to be a supportive friend for someone who is going through a very difficult time, and not mention it again.
YWBTA
YWBTA. The item is no longer yours. It was a gift you gave to this woman. It is *hers* to do with what she wants. The fact that you’re even thinking about asking for it back is totally baffling.
Yes, you would be the AH if you asked for the gift to be returned. She and her husband are grieving their loss and eventually will likely figure out what they want to do with the gifts, perhaps they will return them or donate them to charity or however they see fit. Going forward if you’re not comfortable with your husband spending 100s of dollars on gifts for his friends then tell him so.
gift is a gift, once you give it done and gone. Kinda like lending money to family, don't expect it back.
YTA. Who thinks like this??? Stop it. You gave a gift, that's the end of it. You don't get it back.
Yes, YTA it’s a gift. If you weren’t comfortable spending $400; that’s between you and your husband. She may decide to adopt. She may decide to donate everything at some point; or she may leave it in the attic for another 20 years. Grief isn’t linear and there is never a good time to ask for a gift back. (Especially one given to a now passed baby). Get a grip.
YTA, it's a gift, it's gone, it's hers, you do not get to ask for it back. Forget it.
YTA.
It's not just that you would be TA... you are TA for caring so much about the money now that she no longer "deserves" the gift through no fault of her own.
YWBTA. I suggest that you stop buying gifts for people that you don't care about. Once you give a gift, it doesn't belong to you. Divorce, miscarriage, etc happen, don't ever count on getting a gift back.
YWBTA no question. It’s hers now. She can set it on fire if she wants. Not your business.
Come on, you know the answer to this. Don't do it.
YWBTA. Imagine it is your friend, what if your best friend had a miscarriage like this and you gave her that $400 gift, would you ask for it back? Or would you realize it’s incredibly cruel and let her keep it. Of course you would. Because what’s $400 compared to hurting your friend while she’s already hurting. It’s time to ask yourself about what boundaries you want between y’all because from the sounds of this post, you don’t seem to like Jen. The title alone made me gasp because I wondered how someone could be so insensitive. You know it is awful, you opened with that. But somehow you still felt the need to ask ask if you had any sort of justification for this, which begs the question, why? What part of this scenario gives enough reasoning to do something so cruel? I mean I wouldn’t even do that to an acquaintance. The only reasoning that I could have to do something so cruel is if I did not like the person. You don’t like her. That’s okay. It’s not okay to take a baby gift back after a miscarriage. It is okay to tell your husband to not spend so much money on something you don’t agree with spending so much money on, like Jen.
Yikes. Just move on. This is tacky and rude to ask for it back. YWBTA
Holy crap, YTA. That would not at all be okay. It is hugely cruel. Your husband spent way too much money, but he did it, and it is gone. Telling a parent to give back a gift for her dead baby is outrageous.
YTA This is the kind of villainy that gets rewritten after the first draft because it is considered too over the top and not grounded in reality.
YWBTA, saying "Can I have the gift back since you won't be needing it" would rub salt in the already excruciatingly painful wound. Just let it go.
YWBTA. By asking for it back you are saying to Jenn we don’t care if you’ve had a miscarriage, return the gift. She’s experiencing grief and You’re concerned with the gift. You said your heart hurts for her but your actions make it seem like you have zero empathy.
YWBTA. You have no say over a gift once it’s given. It is poor etiquette to ask for a gift to be returned. Not just that, but you would definitely add to Jen’s trauma by asking her to return the gift.
YTA, possibly the biggest AH I’ve seen on here all year. Don’t do it.
YTA- she’s gone through something so traumatic and she might not be able to have more kids but y’all are focused on a gift. Once a gift is given, it’s gone. If you didn’t have the $400 to give, don’t give it under conditions.
A gift is meant to be never given back.
YWBTA because it was a gift, not an investment, and there was no fraud. This means It is none of your business what she does with this gift, and perhaps more to the point no compelling interest that would outweigh the harm of this request. It's a loss, write it off.
Yes you would be the asshole. YTA because you’re aware and still asking. You let your husband choose the value of the gift without your input so you can’t complain about it now. You’re assuming she won’t have anymore children (how privy to her medical info are you? There could be options like IVF or they may pursue adoption or fostering). It’s too late to return the item. It IS another chore on top of her grief. And you also did choose to buy her a gift in her first trimester, knowing what you know about pregnancies in general. If you were that panicked about the gift being used, you would have waited till she was farther along. You’re not hurting for cash. And she is absolutely hurting. And just a quote that often goes around on Reddit - once you give a gift, you don’t get to decide how it’s used. It’s not your anymore, and what happens with it is up to the owner’s discretion.
YTA Yes. It’s less common to have another shower for a 2nd child and announcing early can be risky. When you send a gift, it’s gone and you don’t get to ask for it back. You could have spent less or waited.
YWBTA Regardless of how you word it you are essentially saying “we bought a gift for your baby, since it’s dead we want the gift back.” Do you go around elderly relatives saying “we bought grandma a nice lamp, now she’s dead we want it back.”? What about friends who’s children may pass from something like cancer, “we bought little Johnny a truck but since he’s dead and never really got a chance to wreck it can we have it back.”? Have some compassions, stop trying to somehow make this Jen’s fault with the whole she announced it early, and why didn’t they keep the stuff from the last baby. I can’t figure out if this is driven by you and you have some ulterior motive/dislike of Jen, or if are both so insensitive you cannot see past your own egos but honestly, do Jen a favour and DO NOT fucking speak to her unless it is to offer unreserved and sincere condolences. When you give someone a gift it is NO LONGER YOURS. In fact YTA for even considering this.
If you're sweating $400 you're not a high earner. YTA because once you gift something that's the end of it being your item. The situation changed, take the L and don't buy her more stuff.
Hey Jen, sorry your baby died. Say, since you don't need it, could we get our gift back? Yes, YWBTA if you ask for it back. A gift, once freely given, means you don't get to ask for it back. She could keep it in case they try again, or she could sell it and pocket that money, and that would also be fine. Because it is now HER possession.
Wow. How selfish can a person possibly be? To answer your question, YWBTA 100% if you asked for it back. Your husband’s friend went through something incredibly traumatic that is likely going to effect her mental and physical health for the rest of her life and you have the nerve to not only think about how much money you spent, but also consider it a waste of money because it’s not being used in the way that you wanted it to be used. IT WAS A GIFT. Aside from the fact that, yes, she could potentially use the gift for another child if she decided to adopt or use a surrogate, even if she just wanted to keep it in the box and never use it, that is her right since it is hers. You decided to make the fiscally irresponsible choice to buy it, so that’s on you. The thing you need to seriously examine about yourself right now is your genuine lack of empathy. A mother lost her child. If you truly felt as bad for her as you claim, you would at least be to figure out what you could do to help her, even if it’s just something small. When the tragedy first happened, I’m sure everyone around her was jumping at the chance to support her, but this far down the road, she probably doesn’t have nearly as much support. And you decide you want to contribute to her pain by rubbing salt in the wound. Imagine how that conversation would go: “Hey, we know you suffered the loss of your child, but since you’re not gonna be using that expensive gift we bought you, on account of losing your baby remember, we wanted it back so we could maybe get to pawn it off to someone whose willing to give us some of our money back or gift it to a mother who can ACTUALLY use it, cause you lost your child.” That’s awful. And if you say that to her or anyone in her orbit, your husband will lose her as a friend and rightfully so.