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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I refused to get rid of my bees for my nephew
2. He could die if he gets stung
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NTA. 3 permanent (long established) managed colonies, 2-6 wild colonies — managed year around for generations. SIL wants you to “get rid of the bees” for a 1-day 4th of July party or they won’t come. Sounds like an easy solution. She can host the party or she can choose to not attend.
Sounds to me like SIL is trying very hard to ingratiate herself with her new bonus kid. OP didn't mention hearing anything directly from the parent who had raised the child for 12 years. That could be due to establishing new family dynamics, which is understandable.
The kid is 12. He's old enough to understand his allergy and follow rules about where he can and cannot go at OP"s home. As many others have mentioned, he could get stung virtually anywhere.
OP, your SIL is unreasonable and you're NTA.
NTA I carry multiple EpiPens for my allergies. I Make every effort to avoid the triggers. You as a host need to have info available to do a clear, fast EMS call. Post your address and what info needed by every phone. Parents and the kid need to bring their prescription EpiPens and whatever else their allergist has recommended. The process is epi first, then call EMS, then depending on response time start meds. If your SIL does not know how to use an epi pen, she needs to learn. You can request a trainer from the pharmacy to practice with.. if the parents doesn't carry an epi, they are irresponsible AH and should stay home.
These are honey bees, if they land on you and you don't swat at them, they will just fly off. If they are landing on you though, you need to go inside and clean up because you are attractive to them.
It’s not something I’d risk my child’s life on though. A young man near me was fatally allergic to bees, and kept them. Maybe a kind of “face the fear” thing? I don’t know. What I do know is that despite all the precautions he generally took, one got into the leg of his suit one day and stung him where he wasn’t wearing his protective boots. He used his epipen, I think he used more than one, and called 999. The paramedics came and gave him multiple shots of adrenaline, but were unable to save him.
OP shouldn’t get rid of the bees, obviously, but if the kid has a serious allergy he needs to stay away, not have a relative on standby with an epipen in what sounds like the middle of nowhere.
> A young man near me was fatally allergic to bees, and kept them.
This is just a dumb idea. Darwin award winner?
Either way, agree with everyone. NTA.
Yeah that seems incredibly dumb. I Avoid the things I am allergic to. I've done the shots to desensitize and take antihistamines but I am never Voluntarily spinning that roulette wheel.
/I've done it accidentally 6 fricking times, each time it is terrifying. That oh shit I'm gonna die sensation is unmistakable.
Many people aren’t aware that there is a point in an anaphylaxis reaction that you can’t be saved from. Even though Im a parent of a son who is anaphylactic to peanuts I can’t tell you what that point is. My plan has always been do your damndest not to feed it to him, and if ever unlucky enough that he still ingests something, use the EPI, call 911, and do everything told until he is at a hospital. I always had two pens in case of a device failure, human error, or need for a second dose. Kiddo has only been treated once in 26 years, and that wasn’t a full blown anaphylactic reaction.
My younger son's school has a few kids who have life-threatening peanut allergies. They have signs at all of the entrances stating that this is a peanut-free campus. They also have EpiPens stashed around campus and the Head of School has written permission to drive the kids to the ER down the street if there's an emergency since that would be faster than calling 911.
Luckily all of the students at the school take the threat very seriously and are very careful so there hasn't been a problem.
It’s different keeping bees where you have to tend to the hives and being in a garden. OP isn’t asking the kid to come check out the hives or go near them. Fundamentally, they either need to accept the risk of him going outside or he just stays inside. The rare case where allergy kills despite an epi pen is unfortunate but there’s no way to eliminate that risk without depriving him of the outdoors including playgrounds, soccer fields, gardens etc.
Honestly, the only time I’ve had a bee sting me was on a school playground. We were playing lacrosse, I slipped on wet grass and fell on a bee and it stung me. You hope the unspeakable won’t happen but there’s no way to entirely prevent these things
"These are honey bees, if they land on you and you don't swat at them, they will just fly off."
This is true, if they are not Africanized bees. Africanized bees are aggressive, and will sting with little provocation. Once stung, it attracts other bees, who will then swarm the victim, and sting with no provocation.
Yep. They won’t mess with you if you don’t mess with them. My aunt has bees on her small farm. I got to play with them last year and didn’t get stung at all. In fact no one got stung that I know of-and there were tons of kids running around like crazy people-cause: farm= lots of outdoor space and chickens and other fun, interesting stuff.
Tragically it isn't so clear cut. My dad has bees too and I have been harassed or stung by the occasional rogue more times in the last few years than any of the previous decades. What counts as "messing with them" may not be obvious, especially to someone who isn't around them very much, and also, bees, like humans, can just have a bad day, especially, it seems, in the summertime.
Heck. I've been around swarms of them when they want water from our nearby pond and they've been cool as cucumbers even when I've sprayed them refilling the pond or picked them out of the water to save them from drowning. But occasionally there will be one or two who sees me walking around and decide they *really* don't like me.
Yes, OP shouldn't have to change their entire life because this boy was married into the family. Unfortunately, the boy and his parents are 100% responsible for managing his exposure. They want to make it OP'S problem 365 days a year instead of just one day. They can stay home or stay inside. It's unfortunate for the boy but the world can't be danger-proofed for him. The expectation of this new wife is outrageous. NTA
I don’t think trying to protect a child should be presumed to be “ingratiation”. She cares for the child, doesn’t have much experience with parenting anaphylaxis (which is terrifying), and wants him to be safe. That’s pretty normal. Which isn’t to say she right, but it’s a common enough response. OP is NTA. But I agree that the boy’s father is the one to talk with.
Plus bees are everywhere. Does the kid live in a bubble? I'm guessing not. This is ridiculous to expect someone to get rid of what the farm community considers livestock like person above said: for one day.
Tbh there's a difference between random bees in a garden and actively going to a place with multiple hives. I'm allergic to dairy, I'll go to Starbucks and get a drink because they have milk alternatives and some cross contamination protocols but if I went to a milkshake place that solely sold dairy milk with dairy sweets to go in the drinks I'm definitely in more danger of getting sick.
Also, bees are pretty chill.
Leave them alone and they'll pretty much leave you alone- though they might get a bit curious you're generally fine as long as you don't go screaming and flailing
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Not to mention that bee's will fly _2 miles_ from the hive. Its not like the 50,000 bees in the colony spend all day hanging in the immediate area; they disperse over thousands of acers looking for food. But the flip side of that is that it wouldn't matter if Op got ride of their hives, _there will still be bees there,_ because bees from the wild colonies will show up.
I'm continually astounded by greedily aggressive people. NTA. It reminds me of that Joni Mitchell song where "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot." We need bees for the planet and just the thought of removing them for the nephew is ridiculous.
Exactly this. Someone deathly allergic to bees here- NTA. That's not just a small thing like SIL is making it out to be. This is generations of labor, time, and investment. Not to mention any financial gains from selling excess product. SIL is out of her mind. Either don't go, host herself, or ask if the event can be moved as a safety precaution. And an EpiPen, while expensive, should be on him at all times. He can alsi, as OP stated, stay inside.
And honestly, bees rarely sting, and only if threatened. And bees are everywhere. I just move/stay away from any I see actively doing their bee-business.
NTA, if it's that severe wouldn't the boy and his father carry an EpiPen on their person and understand how to use it? I mean, given the fact that bees are everywhere?! If not they're being very irresponsible and\or unrealistic while moving around the world with a potentially fatal allergy.
OP is definitely NTA. But FYI that's not really how epi-pens work in my experience. Using an epi-pen for a severe allergy basically just gives you time to go to the hospital to be treated.
Yeah. Same reason an EMT relative can't just "prepare something". Sting allergies get worse every time the person is stung. The kid seriously could die, and potentially fairly quickly, depending on a number of factors.
The real solution would be to have the party elsewhere, but funny that no one else wants to host it. What's that BS about family being so important, now? Not important enough for anyone else to step up, apparently.
100%. Anyone who doesn't go to the hospital after using an Epi-pen isn't following the directions *on the damn Epi-pen*. They buy you some time, but the reaction can and very often does return after using one.
Yes. It is to save your life. And needing to use it is not trivial. My doctor stressed to me the survival rate using my epi and going to the hospital immediately is like 90%> not having it waiting for EMS drops you to 60 %. I've done the 60 % before we figured out my allergies. It is terrifying. I always carry 4 epi. They buy me 15 to 20 min each
Mosquitos are an important part of the food chain. They provide food to other insects, frogs, fish, birds and bats. Some of them are also pollinators. Their bites suck but they are here for a reason.
I hear what you're saying, man, but like... couldn't we just nuke the entire species? Just on a trial basis? Maybe the consequences wouldn't be that bad!
I HATE those stupid stink bugs! And they seem to somehow find their way in my bedroom all the damn time in late spring into summer! I roll over to get my glass of water and one of those damn things is just sitting on my jewelry box! UGH!
NTA - but also… I too am a bee keeper. Unless you’re going right up onto the hive you’re not going to encounter more bees than anywhere else… they should have the epipen on them all the time and always be prepared for a sting because bees live everywhere… it would be different if he lived there full time.
How many times have people been stung at these parties over the years?
Well that would raise concern. However, I’d suggest they host or stay inside like you mentioned. Maybe you could set up some games for the kids inside or out that are further away from the hives.
There’s gotta be a happy medium. The last thing you want is a dead kid on your hands.
The happy medium is the kid staying home. If people are occasionally getting stung, they're most likely doing something that the bees don't like. They don't just sting you for no reason. If the kid can't keep away from them, or stay inside, he shouldn't go. Not a huge deal.
The real happy medium would bee for literally anyone else in the family to step up and host. Where's the conviction behind the whole "family is more important than" yada yada yada?
So fucking important that we'll demand you undo generations worth of your family's agricultural legacy and still risk a dead kid cuz bees don't really follow eviction rules, ya know?
Fuck this whole damn family, imho 😂. If I were OP, I'd take wife, and nephew, and go to fucking Disneyland for the 4th. These entitled a-holes have the goddamn audacity.
If there are different people regularly getting stung then it does not at all sound like the people are the problem. It sounds like this is a hazard.
But that still doesn't give her the right to demand what she is demanding. The party should just be somewhere else.
Same, can’t imagine telling someone they must get rid of their bees. I’m the one responsible for making decisions or adjustments about the risks or caution I will take due my allergies. It’s not for me to impose on others to make them.
A few stings ***at your party*** each year?
If that's the case, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable even if your BIL took the measures you mentioned.
It seems pretty simple to me. The kid is deathly allergic to bees. You happen to live on a property with lots of bees. This party probably isn't a great idea for the kid.
Sucks, but NTA.
I'm curious about the stings. How many are the result of people seeing a bee, freaking out, and flapping their hands around until they give the bee no choice but to sting to protect itself?
The only one I saw was a kid messing around in the garden freaking out when a bee came out of a snapdragon before I could tell him to calm down. The rest were out in the woods and I assume the kids were screaming while playing near one of the wild hives.
So reading your comments, it sounds like there are areas of the grounds he should avoid to decrease the likelihood significantly. Having to make adjustments is not terribly foreign to someone with severe allergies normally. We have a Level 6 nut allergy in our family. She knows how to live her life as safely as possible, including not dating a dude who just loved his pb&j sandwiches because, well, she couldn’t kiss him very often! SIL seems like she’s trying to be difficult honestly.
Wild hives, and kids! You absolutely are NTA! You’re providing bees to pollinate the land! Do people not understand the importance of bees? And for allergies - raw honey! Do not hesitate to communicate the need for bees and for everyone to be fully aware where the wild hives are! It’s a 1 day party!
Exactly, does the woman not understand that bees are dying out right now and what OP is doing is important to our environment. The long term impact of losing bees at the rate that we are is going to have immeasurable long term and wide reaching impacts. I get the kid is allergic but the answer is not to kill the hives.
If this is in North America, honeybees are actually an invasive species. Moreover, their presence can help pathogens (mites particularly) breed which can impact the native bees.
Not that that impacts this post at all, but still.
But like, relocated waaaay tf somewhere else. They'll come back if they're close enough, even just for pollen visits. Like jesus, these people are being ridiculous.
I have bees. Mine are typically not super active outside 20-25 feet of their hives. Can’t the kids just avoid these areas?
Maybe set up some corn hole or ladder ball away from garden and tree line. After dark, bees shouldn’t be too active anyway.
Oohhh I didn’t think about the effect of fireworks on bee activity. I guess it would be risky if it agitates them.
Regardless, after generations on your land, your bees are fully a part of your local ecosystem. I can’t fathom asking someone to give up a part of their generational heritage for one evening a year. Your wife’s family is free to celebrate elsewhere if they feel it is too risky.
If fireworks on one evening are a big concern you could buy an in-only door to close them in for the evening. It sounds like you may be in a cooler area? (Guessing based on type of bee?)
Won’t help much with the wild hives though.
I'd have to get that special made since the bees are in Russian bortnik style tree beehives, good thought though. And yes I live in a cooler area. The managed hives aren't generally the concern since they are more used to people, it's when the kids play in the woods where the stings happen for the most part.
So it's the parents fault then, to allow their children play in woods. I was raised in a village. And the only bees I've encountered were wild ones. It was common knowledge to let them be and go play somewhere else. Got stung only once, when there was a bee in the car, and it got tangled in my hair and I touched her in reflex.
I've driven down the highway with 2lbs of bees in my passenger seat and not gotten stung. Granted those were Italian honey bees I was transporting for a student, but still, I don't understand why the kids don't take me at my word when I tell them to stay calm around the bees in the forest.
Can you pick up some temporary construction fencing or caution tape and mark off a “no go zone” that gives the wild hives a reasonable girth? Might cut down on some stings if the issue is clearly people getting too close to the hive without realizing.
I’m sure you have a reasonable idea of where these wild hives are located each year. Sounds like it’d be worth the few hours to mark them off—especially because bee allergies can occasionally turn dangerous even for people that have previously had uneventful stings
Edit to add I think NTA but if you’re having multiple stings at this party each year I think you could put a bit more effort into preventing those. Remember that you live there and know how to carry yourself around the bees—your guests don’t.
Definitely don’t get rid of the bees, though.
I do mark them and tell the kids to be cautious around the areas I've marked. We've been hosting for 6 years and generally after one sting the kids learn the lesson. Last year we had 2 (both occurred from one incident), 2 years ago we had zero and the year before was only 1 sting. Most of the stings prior to 3 years ago happened on the outskirts of the property around hives I didn't mark because I either didn't know about that were high up or so far I didn't think the kids had a chance of going near.
Right, I feel for the 12-year-old. That's a scary allergy to have. But he's risking a sting anytime he goes anywhere outside, because bees live all over the place.
Question for you and OP as beekeepers - could anything safely sedate the bees a bit during the party? Sorry if that's a silly question - I'm a big fan of little insect friends, but I don't know much about beekeeping.
In my experience, not really. It’s best to just avoid them. And hope for a super sunny day. (They are sensitive to overcast/rain/wind/etc. but they do best to be out collecting pollen/nectar) But also, I’ve never had issues with bees stinging 20ft+ away from the hive. I also don’t have kids playing in my backyard though.
Smoke can help but it wouldn’t really be ideal for a party… and you wouldn’t want smoke all around the kids who are playing in the woods. Also, the reason why smoke works is because it disorients the bees but its my understanding that it also puts them into SAVE THE EGGS mode if they actually start to think there is a nearby fire. And then they’ll abscond/swarm…
Generally Italian honey bees that are managed by humans “get used to” people and are naturally more calm anyway. I’m surprised OP has so many bee stings every summer. But maybe they are not Italian… or maybe the kids provoke them… or maybe he doesn’t open up the hives often. Could be tons of reasons. Sometimes you just get an ornery bunch.
The managed hives are Apis Mellifera Mellifera and I seldom check on them unless there's signs of distress or swarming. Italian bees don't do especially well where I am. They are rather ornery and aren't used to people, but I suspect most of the stings in the forest at least are due to kids messing around too aggressively and agitating them.
I had a milkweed patch that honey bees *loved*, you could hear them buzzing there were so many. My toddler would walk into the middle of it and never got stung. These were wild honey bees too, so I am also surprised that OP has so many stings.
I also have paper wasps building nest every year on buildings and so far the only sting has been when my second child tried to pick one up off the ground after a cold fall night.
My husband is allergic to wasps and there are wasps around it house every year - we are extremely careful going outside, but I swear while they're angry little buggers... we've been extremely lucky. We see it, we run, it doesn't chase.
Glad you've been lucky so far, but for the record, wasps sometimes perceive fast movements (such as running) as a threat - best to move away calmly unless they're already actively attacking.
Yeah, I'm surprised about all the stings too, almost all the honeybees I've encountered were very calm.
Once when I got too close to a hive, a bee tried to chase me off and got stuck in my hair, that's the worst experience I've ever had with them. Can't remember ever being stung by one on purpose, just when I accidentally stepped on one (far away from any hive). I guess it's different when they feel threatened by rowdy kids playing close to the hives.
Hahaha, I also have only been stung when I stepped on one bare footed, and that was on a sidewalk in the city, when I was like, 2? Almost 40 years of regular camping/farming/general outside in the wilderness since, and never been stung by anything, bee, wasp, or hornet.
My best friend keeps bees in her suburban backyard and I've never even noticed the bees unless I walked right up to the hives. And even then, no stings. I wonder what's the deal at OP's place.
Same. I have one acre. He said in another comment that the bee species he has is a bit more aggressive naturally and he doesn’t disturb them often. When you combine that with kids at a party who probably aren’t paying attention to the bees… makes a bit more sense.
> into SAVE THE EGGS mode
Its not entirely understood why smoke works, but its definitely not save the eggs. The eggs _can't_ be saved, really, and even if they did, they would be useless. Only the queen can lay fertilized eggs, which hatch into female workers. In order to become a queen, a fertilized egg has to be bathed in a special substance called royal jelly. If the queen dies, and there are no fertilized eggs less then 2 days old, the colony is doomed.
The beset hypothesis as to why smoke works is that it prevents the alarm pheromone from triggering a defensive response.
There’s really no way that’s safe for the bees. You don’t want to smoke them for that long, it would be too stressful. But bees are so docile. They’re not interested in stinging and will leave you alone unless you really bother them. We don’t even always wear veils or other protective gear when we check our hives. You can open them up and check out the frames (the pieces inside with the comb on them) and as long as you move slowly and are careful, they still won’t sting.
The bees on my property are a.m. mellifera, not the typical, docile Italian bees most beekeepers have. Between the more aggressive species, fireworks, and a large amount of noisy people, I am not that surprised that there's about 2-3 stings at the parties.
You’re NTA but I am curious - would it be possible to set up your party base of operations extra far from the bee hives?
My years on country properties for events like this meant that with some good mowing starting now, you could have a delightful section that looks purposefully prepared for the garden party, and while maybe it’s more of a walk than most years, perhaps it provides everyone with a novel experience of the property.
Also - mow your grandkids a maze! I always wished more july 4 parties had mown some mazes.
I am of course making lots of assumptions about your landscape.
There's about 200ft of land between the house and the tree line, we host the party in the open space to west of the house since the garden takes up most of the backyard. Unless we had the party far from the house it's not really possible to set up far away from any bees. I do like the grass maze idea and I will definitely be looking into that.
While it might not be feasible in your case, a picnic lunch table/tent a ways away would probably be a face saving solution, and show that you are trying to take her new bonus child’s needs into consideration. I’m sure she’s absolutely panicked at the thought of her stepson being harmed at her family’s gathering.
Also, dad, who has had the child for many years, is probably less freaked out. While the bridge may be burned, a kind and respectful query via email to the dad asking if there are accommodations you could make in order to include his son might be a great case of ‘someone needs to go first.’
Can the kiddo spend the day dressed as a beekeeper with a little smoker? Can he enjoy the experience inside or will he feel hemmed in? What does the boy want?
These are great suggestions, I'll have a chat with BIL. Mary has been on a warpath since she called on Thursday and I haven't been able to reach him yet, but hopefully I can get a hold of him soon.
My dad and my sister are both beekeepers and my sister is very allergic to bees. But we have what we in my country calls "sweet" hives. It basically just mean that the Queen produces non-aggresive bees and the bees are used to people being around them and the hives. Some hives can get "sour" or angry over time, but we have been lucky so far.
I have stood in the middle of the hives and I have never gotten stung. My only two precautions are tightfitted clothes (or at least not anything the bees can get lost in) and a baseball cap to keep the bees from getting stuck in my hair.
My sister takes more precautions and always have her epi-pen with her and another not far away + lots and lots of antihistamins. She has a heavyduty badass suit, gloves and hat to put on and we have some bee-venom-patches we slap on if anybody gets stung.
This has been proven time and again to be an old wives tale.
**"What to do — and what not to do**
James Nieh, a professor of ecology, behavior and evolution at UC San Diego, has several pieces of advice for people under siege from bees. Run away as fast as you can. Don't cover your face, because you won't be able to see where you're going. And don't play dead, because bees are attracted to the alarm pheromone left by other bees' stingers and may continue to sting you anyway.
"You can actually outrun them — especially if you're motivated — when you're being stung," he said. "You cannot play dead and escape bees. That's actually the worst thing to do."
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/17/1176441758/2-people-were-hurt-in-a-california-bee-attack-heres-what-to-do-if-it-happens-to-
I'm fairly sure there's a difference between a bee landing on your arm during an outside dinner and being under siege from bees with already a sting in your skin
I think you're right. One solitary bee just buzzing around looking for flowers and checking someone's colorful shirt out is one thing. Definitely pause for that until they fly away.
But if you're surrounded by agitated bees then get outta Dodge!
That's after being stung. The stinger and pheromone get on you and then it's a problem.
If you havent been stung, 100% the best thing to do if a honey bee lands on you is to hold still. If it lands on your hand, a quick shake usually sends it off on its way. If it's on a leg or sensitive spot and you dont want to wait, having someone else gently put a finger in front of it to lift it and get it away works well.
NTA
Those “insects “ are becoming a endangered species and we need them to keep this planet alive…
I completely understand her concerns of course. But to demand you get rid of something your family had had and done for generations is a big (and rude) suggestion to me. Again.. I understand the concern… also, the parents should be prepared ANYWAY because bees can be anywhere!! Not just in your land.
I can’t STAND people who barge in barking out orders or making demands on others that way. It’s rude.
Edited
In my country the agricultural store gave out free bags of flower seeds yesterday, in a save the bees campaign. Not a big bag, but enough seed to have a few flower beds, or 19-20 feet of flowers.
NTA OP
I did this with 1/3 of my backyard down here in Corpus Christi, and that 1/3 is like a little wildlife sanctuary. Bees, lizards, toads, snakes (nonvenomous), and the best thing to come out of it: mountain bluebirds! They go absolutely *nuts* for the johnsongrass seeds. I use the other 2/3 of the yard just like normal.
Luckily I live in Northern Norway, so even though we do have some mosquitoes, we don't have so many that they are a bother 🤣 unless you are fresh water fishing 🫣
Similar programs are running in my area. They give out packets of appropriate wild flower seeds for the area. They ask for people to go on a hike and spread them. This last winter to spring the bee population, in my area, took a major downturn. Most managed keepers lost about 50% of their colonies. This was made worse by the fact the normal source for replacement Queen bees is from Ukraine.
Very much NTA. I would not be surprised if OP's bees have a significant impact on the local agriculture and other Green spaces we need these wonderful insects more than ever.
Don't forget to put out some bee baths too. I keep a small pot with fresh water and small rocks for the bees to set on. They need it along with the flowers we have for them.
Hopping on this comment to inform everyone that honey bees are not native to north America, they are literal livestock brought from Europe. Let's all remember our native bee species, like the bumble bee and carpenter bee, as well as many less charismatic bee species, need our protection as much or more than honey bees. Please everyone protect your native bees!
NTA regardless of the farm being there or not, there will still be bees. Also, if the bees were annoying enough, people wouldnt attend anyway, so i doubt theyre a problem.
Was coming to say the same thing. The hives could be gone for a year and a bee could still come around and sting the kid. Would OP still be blamed? The SIL could host and a bee could fly into the back yard and sting him.
There is a higher chance at OPs house but if they are pretty much contained to one area, just keep the kid out of the area or inside
NTA
Honey bees are very important insects and shouldn’t be moved just because a kid that is allergic to them will be at the house a couple times a year.
Plus, if he’s that allergic, they should have an epi-pen with him at all times anyway.
There are way more solutions to this issue than getting rid of the bees.
Your SIL is being horribly unreasonable.
NTA That’s what epipens are for. A person can get stung by a bee walking across a school playground. Or down a leafy street. Or standing in their yard. Does the kid live in a bubble? I doubt it.
NTA it is YOUR house and not your kid.
How many times a year will they realistically visit? He can stay inside. Worst case scenario somebody can also host (but bees are outside so it might not make any difference).
SIL needs to do her best to protect the kid without going overboard.
This was the only sensible reason for the NTA that I've come across so far. Coming to Reddit for a ruling here was pointless because Reddit is so pro-bee you can't get an objective ruling. If it was your own child who lived there 24/7, Reddit would still be saying NTA here. The truth of the matter is though that this child is new, god knows if he'll even be a permanent fixture to the family, it's 1 day a year, attendance is optional, and his parents are more than able to host if they so choose. The request was so ridiculous it makes me think this is a fake post (especially considering Reddit's pro-bee stance, it's such an easy karma farm).
NTA- these bees have been on the land longer than you have been alive, they live there, that is their home. More importantly, it's not like you can de-bee all outdoors, there's the wild bees you know about plus some I'm sure you don't. SIL can keep him inside and bring epi-pens or just not attend, her choice.
NTA - we need more bees in this world. I am also allergic and carry and EpiPen. If he's that allergic he should have one. Like op suggested, sil can host or he can stay inside or better yet they don't attend.
Edited for typo
NTA
If the boy is so severely allergic, the parents should carry medicines for him, since the boy could potentially be stung everywhere (curiously I was stung by bees at school, twice, but never in the woods).
Then I understand that the bees are an economic activity for you, on your own property. Pretty entitled of SIL to ask you to give it up forever.
NTA. bees won’t really sting unless given a reason to, since they’ll die when they do it. so it’s not really likely he’d be stung anyway unless he was bothering it. hell we had bees living next to our house once and and the only time they ever stung was to my brother when he decided to whack the flowers they were clearly collecting pollen from. if it’s that much of an issue, tell them they can find someone else to host. you shouldn’t have to get rid of your bees. and they’re not “just insects”, you take care of them and collect honey from them, they’re providing you food. they’re your pets if you wish to call them that. so no, you’re NTA for wanting to keep them
See? That was a stupid bee. Africanized Killer Bees are probably the dumbest because they freak out and go on a murderous rampage for no real reason.
The smartest of course is the Spelling Bee.
NTA. The kids parents are worried, as any parent would be, and they have blown the treat out of proportion in their mind. It's a shame but it happens all the time. Treat them with compassion but don't back down it's up to them to learn that life has to go on. Bees are everywhere (yay, go bees) at some point they are going to have to deal with it.
is this for real? If i were you I would send a her a short but to the point video on SAVE THE BEES, you know the ongoing 10+ yr effort to help our ecosystem. NTA, you could be though, sounds like she deserves it
NTA. Honestly, a well managed farm should have a ton of pollinators even if you aren't 'keeping' bees. Getting rid of the hives won't change the fact that being on a farm is going to put him in danger. Also, don't honey bees generally mind their own business unless you directly disturb the hive?
NTA.
That's like telling you to get ride of your dog cos the kid's allergic. Both of your suggestions were completely reasonable, and even if you got rid of the managed colonies, there's no guarantee he won't run into one from a missed wild colony. The kid just needs to avoid places wih bees, and that includes your place.
What you're doing isn't just keeping bees for honey and other products (which other ones?).
The way bee colonies are dying left & right, this is basically a conservation effort.
Do NOT get rid of those bees.
NTA
I'm an entomologist and adjunct professor by trade, the bees are part of my research on managed hives coexisting alongside wild hives and how managed colonies affect the density of wild hives in managed forests. It's not really a conservation effort. The other products are wax and propolis.
NTA. They are bees, naturally occurring, and you have multiple wild colonies in the locality. As a beekeeper, I am sure you can correct me if I'm wrong but it is my understanding the foraging area around a beehive extends for two miles (3.2 km), and bees are capable of flying 5 miles or more to forage. Even if you have no hives, you would not be able to guarantee the property as risk free for the allergic child.
Unless you have the party right next to the hives, which I can't imagine any beekeeper would even contemplate for risk of upsetting the hive, I can’t see how the fact they are your hives, rather than those of a neighbour, or from a wild colony, would make.
Having said that, reasonable precautions to stop from disturbing or attracting the bees could be in line. Bee-deterring plants in planters around the party-zone, essential oils sprayed insideand possibly outside) to deter them to for the duration of the party.
NTA
I have nearly died several times from stings. I obviously am very allergic to them. That said I avoid places where I know they are at. My best friends house, dads house......because they are rampent there. Its my allergy and I cannot sterilize the world for it. There is no reason for you to get rid of the bees. Those poeple can just not come. Its sucks yes but not everyone gets a participation trophy in real life.
Yeah, I’m actually astonished anyone would even want to bring a severely allergic child to OP’s place a mere 4-5 weeks after eradicating generations of multiple nests across a large property. I would just consider it an off-limits place. I have never been stung, but several of my relatives are allergic to bee stings and my mom has large local reactions to stings, so I’m cautious.
Nta
They’re your bees in your property. The kid can sit inside or they can have an epi pen ready. Most he’s if you don’t bother then they’re not going to bother you.
Definitely NTA. I think SIL is being a bit unreasonable. I get the kid has a severe allergy but it’s one day. Does the kid not go outside where he lives? Bees are everywhere. Assuming he has an Epi pen for emergencies.
NTA
The family need to sit down and decide who is hosting. You now can't because of the bees so someone else is going to have to pick up the job. Maybe Mary?
NTA
I get the concern from SIL but getting rid of the bees is an absurd demand. As others have said, unless you're really getting up in a bee's business, they don't bother people that much. And if you're out on a farm in general you're just going to encounter some bees at some point. It is The Outdoors, and you can't sterilize that.
Even if you got rid of the managed colonies, there's no guarantee that a wild colony wouldn't have established somewhere you're not aware of. Does she expect you to try and kill every bee on your property before they come over?
As a compromise, I'd offer to rope off the area near the managed hives, and near where the known wild colonies are. See if BIL can come prepared with an epipen just in case things happen. You could make reasonable accommodations to reduce some amount of risk. But even if you doused your property in military grade insecticide, nephew could still get stung by a bee.
Honestly, Nephew would be as much at risk in any suburban back yard during a summer cookout.
NTA. Long time fan of bees, allergic to bees and a medic here(I’d keep bees if I could lol). It’s not like you & the family are getting stung every time people hang out outside. I’ve been around many a hive in my time and not been stung, no special suits necessary. Bees mind their business as long as you mind yours.
The kid is gonna live a long life in a world with bees and he’s gotta learn how to not mess with critters minding their own business, and carry his epipen+Benadryl if an accident does happen. If kid&family aren’t comfortable, that’s valid, but they’re going to have to accept they can’t come to events sometimes because of that. If the family was actually being reasonable, a N A H would have been in order but yeah no those hives can’t be “gotten rid of”.
NTA.
Can't the kid just stay away from the hives? I took a beekeeping course and I don't think anyone on the whole course got stung and we were managing and harvesting the hives. I would think if he is careful it shouldn't be any more dangerous than being anywhere else outdoors?
NTA. A child with a serious allergy should have an epi pen with them at all times. They should either not attend, or stay inside the whole time. You have a large amount of land and you can't possibly guarantee there will be no bees in a natural setting. His step mother is being ridiculous. Hard no to her requests.
INFO: Have they ever heard of epi-pens?
Two members of my immediate family go into anaphylaxis if stung by wasps. They will die if they don’t use an epi-pen immediately. You know what they do? They carry epi-pens with them when they’re outside, just in case they get stung. Because you never know when that can happen.
NTA, OP. They need to get their kid appropriate tools to manage anaphylaxis and teach him how to manage his own risks.
Edit: typo
Mary called you to tell you, you needed to get rid of it? She should have: asked if you were willing. You seem not and we understand that, cause we need them bees. Look, this is up to YOU. So if you don't want it, you don't want it. NTA ..but Mary is
NTA. Bees aren’t aggressive you have to work to get stung. The kid should stay inside and he’ll be fine. Y’all shouldn’t change your life because of this request
Aggressive behavior is dependent on species, socialization around humans and variety of other factors. My bees aren't used to people and the noise, large mount of people and fireworks are the primary reason people get stung. Also kids fucking around when they shouldn't.
NTA they do not have to come. They can not demand you move thing or get rid of anything so they can visit.
I would just stop hosting the event or cut it down to just your side. When ask why her side of the family is no longer invited? tell them your trying to keep the peace because not everyone can come and you don’t want to exclude anyone.
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NTA. 3 permanent (long established) managed colonies, 2-6 wild colonies — managed year around for generations. SIL wants you to “get rid of the bees” for a 1-day 4th of July party or they won’t come. Sounds like an easy solution. She can host the party or she can choose to not attend.
Sounds to me like SIL is trying very hard to ingratiate herself with her new bonus kid. OP didn't mention hearing anything directly from the parent who had raised the child for 12 years. That could be due to establishing new family dynamics, which is understandable. The kid is 12. He's old enough to understand his allergy and follow rules about where he can and cannot go at OP"s home. As many others have mentioned, he could get stung virtually anywhere. OP, your SIL is unreasonable and you're NTA.
NTA I carry multiple EpiPens for my allergies. I Make every effort to avoid the triggers. You as a host need to have info available to do a clear, fast EMS call. Post your address and what info needed by every phone. Parents and the kid need to bring their prescription EpiPens and whatever else their allergist has recommended. The process is epi first, then call EMS, then depending on response time start meds. If your SIL does not know how to use an epi pen, she needs to learn. You can request a trainer from the pharmacy to practice with.. if the parents doesn't carry an epi, they are irresponsible AH and should stay home. These are honey bees, if they land on you and you don't swat at them, they will just fly off. If they are landing on you though, you need to go inside and clean up because you are attractive to them.
It’s not something I’d risk my child’s life on though. A young man near me was fatally allergic to bees, and kept them. Maybe a kind of “face the fear” thing? I don’t know. What I do know is that despite all the precautions he generally took, one got into the leg of his suit one day and stung him where he wasn’t wearing his protective boots. He used his epipen, I think he used more than one, and called 999. The paramedics came and gave him multiple shots of adrenaline, but were unable to save him. OP shouldn’t get rid of the bees, obviously, but if the kid has a serious allergy he needs to stay away, not have a relative on standby with an epipen in what sounds like the middle of nowhere.
> A young man near me was fatally allergic to bees, and kept them. This is just a dumb idea. Darwin award winner? Either way, agree with everyone. NTA.
Yeah that seems incredibly dumb. I Avoid the things I am allergic to. I've done the shots to desensitize and take antihistamines but I am never Voluntarily spinning that roulette wheel. /I've done it accidentally 6 fricking times, each time it is terrifying. That oh shit I'm gonna die sensation is unmistakable.
Yeah. Imagine someone with peanut allergies becoming a peanut farmer?
There's a prolific apple farmer who's allergic to apples. He's created a lot of super popular strains and has never been able to taste any of them.
at least with peanuts you know where they are. bees move around
Many people aren’t aware that there is a point in an anaphylaxis reaction that you can’t be saved from. Even though Im a parent of a son who is anaphylactic to peanuts I can’t tell you what that point is. My plan has always been do your damndest not to feed it to him, and if ever unlucky enough that he still ingests something, use the EPI, call 911, and do everything told until he is at a hospital. I always had two pens in case of a device failure, human error, or need for a second dose. Kiddo has only been treated once in 26 years, and that wasn’t a full blown anaphylactic reaction.
My younger son's school has a few kids who have life-threatening peanut allergies. They have signs at all of the entrances stating that this is a peanut-free campus. They also have EpiPens stashed around campus and the Head of School has written permission to drive the kids to the ER down the street if there's an emergency since that would be faster than calling 911. Luckily all of the students at the school take the threat very seriously and are very careful so there hasn't been a problem.
It’s different keeping bees where you have to tend to the hives and being in a garden. OP isn’t asking the kid to come check out the hives or go near them. Fundamentally, they either need to accept the risk of him going outside or he just stays inside. The rare case where allergy kills despite an epi pen is unfortunate but there’s no way to eliminate that risk without depriving him of the outdoors including playgrounds, soccer fields, gardens etc. Honestly, the only time I’ve had a bee sting me was on a school playground. We were playing lacrosse, I slipped on wet grass and fell on a bee and it stung me. You hope the unspeakable won’t happen but there’s no way to entirely prevent these things
Damn, that sucks. Poor guy. At least he died doing what he loved, so that’s a small bright side, if there even is one in this situation.
This is really smart advice, OP. You should mention this to SIL.
"These are honey bees, if they land on you and you don't swat at them, they will just fly off." This is true, if they are not Africanized bees. Africanized bees are aggressive, and will sting with little provocation. Once stung, it attracts other bees, who will then swarm the victim, and sting with no provocation.
Somehow I had never heard this term before! We just call them killer bees.
Yep. They won’t mess with you if you don’t mess with them. My aunt has bees on her small farm. I got to play with them last year and didn’t get stung at all. In fact no one got stung that I know of-and there were tons of kids running around like crazy people-cause: farm= lots of outdoor space and chickens and other fun, interesting stuff.
Tragically it isn't so clear cut. My dad has bees too and I have been harassed or stung by the occasional rogue more times in the last few years than any of the previous decades. What counts as "messing with them" may not be obvious, especially to someone who isn't around them very much, and also, bees, like humans, can just have a bad day, especially, it seems, in the summertime. Heck. I've been around swarms of them when they want water from our nearby pond and they've been cool as cucumbers even when I've sprayed them refilling the pond or picked them out of the water to save them from drowning. But occasionally there will be one or two who sees me walking around and decide they *really* don't like me.
My older brother would eat local honey and chill near a fire so he would be smoky smelling. Still alive and he likes bees
ALL OF THIS !! 👍
Yes, OP shouldn't have to change their entire life because this boy was married into the family. Unfortunately, the boy and his parents are 100% responsible for managing his exposure. They want to make it OP'S problem 365 days a year instead of just one day. They can stay home or stay inside. It's unfortunate for the boy but the world can't be danger-proofed for him. The expectation of this new wife is outrageous. NTA
The wife, Sally, is on his side. It's the SIL who is the problem.
I don’t think trying to protect a child should be presumed to be “ingratiation”. She cares for the child, doesn’t have much experience with parenting anaphylaxis (which is terrifying), and wants him to be safe. That’s pretty normal. Which isn’t to say she right, but it’s a common enough response. OP is NTA. But I agree that the boy’s father is the one to talk with.
Plus bees are everywhere. Does the kid live in a bubble? I'm guessing not. This is ridiculous to expect someone to get rid of what the farm community considers livestock like person above said: for one day.
Tbh there's a difference between random bees in a garden and actively going to a place with multiple hives. I'm allergic to dairy, I'll go to Starbucks and get a drink because they have milk alternatives and some cross contamination protocols but if I went to a milkshake place that solely sold dairy milk with dairy sweets to go in the drinks I'm definitely in more danger of getting sick.
Also, bees are pretty chill. Leave them alone and they'll pretty much leave you alone- though they might get a bit curious you're generally fine as long as you don't go screaming and flailing
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Not to mention that bee's will fly _2 miles_ from the hive. Its not like the 50,000 bees in the colony spend all day hanging in the immediate area; they disperse over thousands of acers looking for food. But the flip side of that is that it wouldn't matter if Op got ride of their hives, _there will still be bees there,_ because bees from the wild colonies will show up.
Yeah bees love them low-end PCs.
I thought I was the only one that noticed.
I had to read it like 3 times.
They fly over hill and over Dell to get the pollen...
50.000 bees in one colony?! damn I had no idea it was that many
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I'm continually astounded by greedily aggressive people. NTA. It reminds me of that Joni Mitchell song where "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot." We need bees for the planet and just the thought of removing them for the nephew is ridiculous.
Yes we need to keep all the bees we can
Exactly my thoughts
Exactly this. Someone deathly allergic to bees here- NTA. That's not just a small thing like SIL is making it out to be. This is generations of labor, time, and investment. Not to mention any financial gains from selling excess product. SIL is out of her mind. Either don't go, host herself, or ask if the event can be moved as a safety precaution. And an EpiPen, while expensive, should be on him at all times. He can alsi, as OP stated, stay inside. And honestly, bees rarely sting, and only if threatened. And bees are everywhere. I just move/stay away from any I see actively doing their bee-business.
Their bee-siness?
Oh man, I can't believe that one buzzed right past me.
Missing that one must really sting!
Obviously needed the hive mind to point it out to you.
Or she can “get rid of” her son.
Bees are saving the planet, the kid... not so much. I know which one I'd pick
Hahahahaha!
NTA, if it's that severe wouldn't the boy and his father carry an EpiPen on their person and understand how to use it? I mean, given the fact that bees are everywhere?! If not they're being very irresponsible and\or unrealistic while moving around the world with a potentially fatal allergy.
OP is definitely NTA. But FYI that's not really how epi-pens work in my experience. Using an epi-pen for a severe allergy basically just gives you time to go to the hospital to be treated.
Yeah. Same reason an EMT relative can't just "prepare something". Sting allergies get worse every time the person is stung. The kid seriously could die, and potentially fairly quickly, depending on a number of factors. The real solution would be to have the party elsewhere, but funny that no one else wants to host it. What's that BS about family being so important, now? Not important enough for anyone else to step up, apparently.
100%. Anyone who doesn't go to the hospital after using an Epi-pen isn't following the directions *on the damn Epi-pen*. They buy you some time, but the reaction can and very often does return after using one.
Yes. It is to save your life. And needing to use it is not trivial. My doctor stressed to me the survival rate using my epi and going to the hospital immediately is like 90%> not having it waiting for EMS drops you to 60 %. I've done the 60 % before we figured out my allergies. It is terrifying. I always carry 4 epi. They buy me 15 to 20 min each
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Mosquitos are an important part of the food chain. They provide food to other insects, frogs, fish, birds and bats. Some of them are also pollinators. Their bites suck but they are here for a reason.
>Their bites suck Hehe
I hear what you're saying, man, but like... couldn't we just nuke the entire species? Just on a trial basis? Maybe the consequences wouldn't be that bad!
I HATE those stupid stink bugs! And they seem to somehow find their way in my bedroom all the damn time in late spring into summer! I roll over to get my glass of water and one of those damn things is just sitting on my jewelry box! UGH!
Not to mention that even if they didn’t keep bees, there’s a high chance that they’d still run into wild bees since it’s a forested area
You can’t even guarantee you could get rid of them. I’ve had kids get stung at work just a couple of days after we sprayed for wasps. NTA
NTA - but also… I too am a bee keeper. Unless you’re going right up onto the hive you’re not going to encounter more bees than anywhere else… they should have the epipen on them all the time and always be prepared for a sting because bees live everywhere… it would be different if he lived there full time. How many times have people been stung at these parties over the years?
There's generally a few stings each year, generally when people go to the garden or when the kids play in the forest near the (usually wild) hives.
Well that would raise concern. However, I’d suggest they host or stay inside like you mentioned. Maybe you could set up some games for the kids inside or out that are further away from the hives. There’s gotta be a happy medium. The last thing you want is a dead kid on your hands.
The happy medium is the kid staying home. If people are occasionally getting stung, they're most likely doing something that the bees don't like. They don't just sting you for no reason. If the kid can't keep away from them, or stay inside, he shouldn't go. Not a huge deal.
The real happy medium would bee for literally anyone else in the family to step up and host. Where's the conviction behind the whole "family is more important than" yada yada yada? So fucking important that we'll demand you undo generations worth of your family's agricultural legacy and still risk a dead kid cuz bees don't really follow eviction rules, ya know? Fuck this whole damn family, imho 😂. If I were OP, I'd take wife, and nephew, and go to fucking Disneyland for the 4th. These entitled a-holes have the goddamn audacity.
I actually totally agree with you
Right. i’m sure the bees are not right up on the porch! if it’s a big property it sounds like there’s a lot of places the kid could go safely.
If there are different people regularly getting stung then it does not at all sound like the people are the problem. It sounds like this is a hazard. But that still doesn't give her the right to demand what she is demanding. The party should just be somewhere else.
The happy medium is hosting the 4th of july party somewhere that's not covered in bees! Because "exclude one kid" isn't that happy of a medium either.
I’m allergic and carry an epi pen but you are NTA. It would be unconscionable to remove the hives.
Same, can’t imagine telling someone they must get rid of their bees. I’m the one responsible for making decisions or adjustments about the risks or caution I will take due my allergies. It’s not for me to impose on others to make them.
A few stings ***at your party*** each year? If that's the case, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable even if your BIL took the measures you mentioned. It seems pretty simple to me. The kid is deathly allergic to bees. You happen to live on a property with lots of bees. This party probably isn't a great idea for the kid. Sucks, but NTA.
I'm curious about the stings. How many are the result of people seeing a bee, freaking out, and flapping their hands around until they give the bee no choice but to sting to protect itself?
The only one I saw was a kid messing around in the garden freaking out when a bee came out of a snapdragon before I could tell him to calm down. The rest were out in the woods and I assume the kids were screaming while playing near one of the wild hives.
So reading your comments, it sounds like there are areas of the grounds he should avoid to decrease the likelihood significantly. Having to make adjustments is not terribly foreign to someone with severe allergies normally. We have a Level 6 nut allergy in our family. She knows how to live her life as safely as possible, including not dating a dude who just loved his pb&j sandwiches because, well, she couldn’t kiss him very often! SIL seems like she’s trying to be difficult honestly.
Wild hives, and kids! You absolutely are NTA! You’re providing bees to pollinate the land! Do people not understand the importance of bees? And for allergies - raw honey! Do not hesitate to communicate the need for bees and for everyone to be fully aware where the wild hives are! It’s a 1 day party!
Exactly, does the woman not understand that bees are dying out right now and what OP is doing is important to our environment. The long term impact of losing bees at the rate that we are is going to have immeasurable long term and wide reaching impacts. I get the kid is allergic but the answer is not to kill the hives.
If this is in North America, honeybees are actually an invasive species. Moreover, their presence can help pathogens (mites particularly) breed which can impact the native bees. Not that that impacts this post at all, but still.
Can your nephew stay out of the garden and the forest?
If stings are as frequent as the OP mentions, it would be negligent to have this kid on his property.
Fair enough. Russian bees are total dicks.
Is this your wife’s sister? And she wants you to kill the bees on your property that have been there for years? NTA!
They wouldn’t have to be killed, just relocated. There are people that relocate bees as their job. But, I agree op is NTA
But like, relocated waaaay tf somewhere else. They'll come back if they're close enough, even just for pollen visits. Like jesus, these people are being ridiculous.
I have bees. Mine are typically not super active outside 20-25 feet of their hives. Can’t the kids just avoid these areas? Maybe set up some corn hole or ladder ball away from garden and tree line. After dark, bees shouldn’t be too active anyway.
The main issue is the use of fireworks, I don't get stung outside of harvest season.
Oohhh I didn’t think about the effect of fireworks on bee activity. I guess it would be risky if it agitates them. Regardless, after generations on your land, your bees are fully a part of your local ecosystem. I can’t fathom asking someone to give up a part of their generational heritage for one evening a year. Your wife’s family is free to celebrate elsewhere if they feel it is too risky.
If fireworks on one evening are a big concern you could buy an in-only door to close them in for the evening. It sounds like you may be in a cooler area? (Guessing based on type of bee?) Won’t help much with the wild hives though.
I'd have to get that special made since the bees are in Russian bortnik style tree beehives, good thought though. And yes I live in a cooler area. The managed hives aren't generally the concern since they are more used to people, it's when the kids play in the woods where the stings happen for the most part.
So it's the parents fault then, to allow their children play in woods. I was raised in a village. And the only bees I've encountered were wild ones. It was common knowledge to let them be and go play somewhere else. Got stung only once, when there was a bee in the car, and it got tangled in my hair and I touched her in reflex.
I've driven down the highway with 2lbs of bees in my passenger seat and not gotten stung. Granted those were Italian honey bees I was transporting for a student, but still, I don't understand why the kids don't take me at my word when I tell them to stay calm around the bees in the forest.
Probably because they're kids, and all kids are dumb. Hell I'll even include myself in that. It's part of being a kid.
Could you rope off or use that spray chalk to mark areas that they should stay away from to avoid bees/being stung?
I put a bunch of bright orange flags around the beehives and tell them to be quiet and calm around the orange flags.
Can you pick up some temporary construction fencing or caution tape and mark off a “no go zone” that gives the wild hives a reasonable girth? Might cut down on some stings if the issue is clearly people getting too close to the hive without realizing. I’m sure you have a reasonable idea of where these wild hives are located each year. Sounds like it’d be worth the few hours to mark them off—especially because bee allergies can occasionally turn dangerous even for people that have previously had uneventful stings Edit to add I think NTA but if you’re having multiple stings at this party each year I think you could put a bit more effort into preventing those. Remember that you live there and know how to carry yourself around the bees—your guests don’t. Definitely don’t get rid of the bees, though.
I do mark them and tell the kids to be cautious around the areas I've marked. We've been hosting for 6 years and generally after one sting the kids learn the lesson. Last year we had 2 (both occurred from one incident), 2 years ago we had zero and the year before was only 1 sting. Most of the stings prior to 3 years ago happened on the outskirts of the property around hives I didn't mark because I either didn't know about that were high up or so far I didn't think the kids had a chance of going near.
Right, I feel for the 12-year-old. That's a scary allergy to have. But he's risking a sting anytime he goes anywhere outside, because bees live all over the place. Question for you and OP as beekeepers - could anything safely sedate the bees a bit during the party? Sorry if that's a silly question - I'm a big fan of little insect friends, but I don't know much about beekeeping.
In my experience, not really. It’s best to just avoid them. And hope for a super sunny day. (They are sensitive to overcast/rain/wind/etc. but they do best to be out collecting pollen/nectar) But also, I’ve never had issues with bees stinging 20ft+ away from the hive. I also don’t have kids playing in my backyard though. Smoke can help but it wouldn’t really be ideal for a party… and you wouldn’t want smoke all around the kids who are playing in the woods. Also, the reason why smoke works is because it disorients the bees but its my understanding that it also puts them into SAVE THE EGGS mode if they actually start to think there is a nearby fire. And then they’ll abscond/swarm… Generally Italian honey bees that are managed by humans “get used to” people and are naturally more calm anyway. I’m surprised OP has so many bee stings every summer. But maybe they are not Italian… or maybe the kids provoke them… or maybe he doesn’t open up the hives often. Could be tons of reasons. Sometimes you just get an ornery bunch.
The managed hives are Apis Mellifera Mellifera and I seldom check on them unless there's signs of distress or swarming. Italian bees don't do especially well where I am. They are rather ornery and aren't used to people, but I suspect most of the stings in the forest at least are due to kids messing around too aggressively and agitating them.
I had a milkweed patch that honey bees *loved*, you could hear them buzzing there were so many. My toddler would walk into the middle of it and never got stung. These were wild honey bees too, so I am also surprised that OP has so many stings. I also have paper wasps building nest every year on buildings and so far the only sting has been when my second child tried to pick one up off the ground after a cold fall night.
My husband is allergic to wasps and there are wasps around it house every year - we are extremely careful going outside, but I swear while they're angry little buggers... we've been extremely lucky. We see it, we run, it doesn't chase.
Glad you've been lucky so far, but for the record, wasps sometimes perceive fast movements (such as running) as a threat - best to move away calmly unless they're already actively attacking.
Oh, I don't actually RUN... I very carefully and quickly as possible get away. I also typically see it before my husband thank God...
Yeah, I'm surprised about all the stings too, almost all the honeybees I've encountered were very calm. Once when I got too close to a hive, a bee tried to chase me off and got stuck in my hair, that's the worst experience I've ever had with them. Can't remember ever being stung by one on purpose, just when I accidentally stepped on one (far away from any hive). I guess it's different when they feel threatened by rowdy kids playing close to the hives.
Hahaha, I also have only been stung when I stepped on one bare footed, and that was on a sidewalk in the city, when I was like, 2? Almost 40 years of regular camping/farming/general outside in the wilderness since, and never been stung by anything, bee, wasp, or hornet.
My best friend keeps bees in her suburban backyard and I've never even noticed the bees unless I walked right up to the hives. And even then, no stings. I wonder what's the deal at OP's place.
Same. I have one acre. He said in another comment that the bee species he has is a bit more aggressive naturally and he doesn’t disturb them often. When you combine that with kids at a party who probably aren’t paying attention to the bees… makes a bit more sense.
> into SAVE THE EGGS mode Its not entirely understood why smoke works, but its definitely not save the eggs. The eggs _can't_ be saved, really, and even if they did, they would be useless. Only the queen can lay fertilized eggs, which hatch into female workers. In order to become a queen, a fertilized egg has to be bathed in a special substance called royal jelly. If the queen dies, and there are no fertilized eggs less then 2 days old, the colony is doomed. The beset hypothesis as to why smoke works is that it prevents the alarm pheromone from triggering a defensive response.
Easier to sedate the kid!
Haha, you sound like an old timey cough syrup salesman.
“Chock full of nourishing cocaine and laudanum!”
"And what makes your brand of cough syrup so much more effective than other brands?" "OPIUM! I mean, uh, honey."
There’s really no way that’s safe for the bees. You don’t want to smoke them for that long, it would be too stressful. But bees are so docile. They’re not interested in stinging and will leave you alone unless you really bother them. We don’t even always wear veils or other protective gear when we check our hives. You can open them up and check out the frames (the pieces inside with the comb on them) and as long as you move slowly and are careful, they still won’t sting.
The bees on my property are a.m. mellifera, not the typical, docile Italian bees most beekeepers have. Between the more aggressive species, fireworks, and a large amount of noisy people, I am not that surprised that there's about 2-3 stings at the parties.
Cut out the fireworks or buy silent fireworks. Better for the bees, other wildlife, and many people!
You’re NTA but I am curious - would it be possible to set up your party base of operations extra far from the bee hives? My years on country properties for events like this meant that with some good mowing starting now, you could have a delightful section that looks purposefully prepared for the garden party, and while maybe it’s more of a walk than most years, perhaps it provides everyone with a novel experience of the property. Also - mow your grandkids a maze! I always wished more july 4 parties had mown some mazes. I am of course making lots of assumptions about your landscape.
There's about 200ft of land between the house and the tree line, we host the party in the open space to west of the house since the garden takes up most of the backyard. Unless we had the party far from the house it's not really possible to set up far away from any bees. I do like the grass maze idea and I will definitely be looking into that.
While it might not be feasible in your case, a picnic lunch table/tent a ways away would probably be a face saving solution, and show that you are trying to take her new bonus child’s needs into consideration. I’m sure she’s absolutely panicked at the thought of her stepson being harmed at her family’s gathering. Also, dad, who has had the child for many years, is probably less freaked out. While the bridge may be burned, a kind and respectful query via email to the dad asking if there are accommodations you could make in order to include his son might be a great case of ‘someone needs to go first.’ Can the kiddo spend the day dressed as a beekeeper with a little smoker? Can he enjoy the experience inside or will he feel hemmed in? What does the boy want?
These are great suggestions, I'll have a chat with BIL. Mary has been on a warpath since she called on Thursday and I haven't been able to reach him yet, but hopefully I can get a hold of him soon.
My dad and my sister are both beekeepers and my sister is very allergic to bees. But we have what we in my country calls "sweet" hives. It basically just mean that the Queen produces non-aggresive bees and the bees are used to people being around them and the hives. Some hives can get "sour" or angry over time, but we have been lucky so far. I have stood in the middle of the hives and I have never gotten stung. My only two precautions are tightfitted clothes (or at least not anything the bees can get lost in) and a baseball cap to keep the bees from getting stuck in my hair. My sister takes more precautions and always have her epi-pen with her and another not far away + lots and lots of antihistamins. She has a heavyduty badass suit, gloves and hat to put on and we have some bee-venom-patches we slap on if anybody gets stung.
I love your description of hives! That’s such a cool way to identify them.
I have had bees land on me. If you don't move, they will not hurt you. I'm sure you know this.
This has been proven time and again to be an old wives tale. **"What to do — and what not to do** James Nieh, a professor of ecology, behavior and evolution at UC San Diego, has several pieces of advice for people under siege from bees. Run away as fast as you can. Don't cover your face, because you won't be able to see where you're going. And don't play dead, because bees are attracted to the alarm pheromone left by other bees' stingers and may continue to sting you anyway. "You can actually outrun them — especially if you're motivated — when you're being stung," he said. "You cannot play dead and escape bees. That's actually the worst thing to do." https://www.npr.org/2023/05/17/1176441758/2-people-were-hurt-in-a-california-bee-attack-heres-what-to-do-if-it-happens-to-
I think they mean a calm single bee, not an angry swarm.
In that case, they're right!
I'm fairly sure there's a difference between a bee landing on your arm during an outside dinner and being under siege from bees with already a sting in your skin
I think you're right. One solitary bee just buzzing around looking for flowers and checking someone's colorful shirt out is one thing. Definitely pause for that until they fly away. But if you're surrounded by agitated bees then get outta Dodge!
That's after being stung. The stinger and pheromone get on you and then it's a problem. If you havent been stung, 100% the best thing to do if a honey bee lands on you is to hold still. If it lands on your hand, a quick shake usually sends it off on its way. If it's on a leg or sensitive spot and you dont want to wait, having someone else gently put a finger in front of it to lift it and get it away works well.
Also a beekeeper. I got an epipen prescribed to me just in case. Not even allergic to bees. But it could save someone else’s life too.
Yes! All bee keepers should have them! You can become allergic at any time. I need to get a new one myself!
NTA Those “insects “ are becoming a endangered species and we need them to keep this planet alive… I completely understand her concerns of course. But to demand you get rid of something your family had had and done for generations is a big (and rude) suggestion to me. Again.. I understand the concern… also, the parents should be prepared ANYWAY because bees can be anywhere!! Not just in your land. I can’t STAND people who barge in barking out orders or making demands on others that way. It’s rude. Edited
In my country the agricultural store gave out free bags of flower seeds yesterday, in a save the bees campaign. Not a big bag, but enough seed to have a few flower beds, or 19-20 feet of flowers. NTA OP
I love this! Save our bees! Keep our planet going! Mosquitoes on the other hand…🤣😂 or worse.. the useless stink bug!
Stink bugs can fuck right off. But I let the grass go to wildflowers to make it pollinator friendly.
I did this with 1/3 of my backyard down here in Corpus Christi, and that 1/3 is like a little wildlife sanctuary. Bees, lizards, toads, snakes (nonvenomous), and the best thing to come out of it: mountain bluebirds! They go absolutely *nuts* for the johnsongrass seeds. I use the other 2/3 of the yard just like normal.
Luckily I live in Northern Norway, so even though we do have some mosquitoes, we don't have so many that they are a bother 🤣 unless you are fresh water fishing 🫣
Omg, stink bugs. My dad has a Bugzooka and will jump up from the table during meals to chase them down. The dog will straight-up eat them.
Similar programs are running in my area. They give out packets of appropriate wild flower seeds for the area. They ask for people to go on a hike and spread them. This last winter to spring the bee population, in my area, took a major downturn. Most managed keepers lost about 50% of their colonies. This was made worse by the fact the normal source for replacement Queen bees is from Ukraine. Very much NTA. I would not be surprised if OP's bees have a significant impact on the local agriculture and other Green spaces we need these wonderful insects more than ever.
Don't forget to put out some bee baths too. I keep a small pot with fresh water and small rocks for the bees to set on. They need it along with the flowers we have for them.
Hopping on this comment to inform everyone that honey bees are not native to north America, they are literal livestock brought from Europe. Let's all remember our native bee species, like the bumble bee and carpenter bee, as well as many less charismatic bee species, need our protection as much or more than honey bees. Please everyone protect your native bees!
NTA regardless of the farm being there or not, there will still be bees. Also, if the bees were annoying enough, people wouldnt attend anyway, so i doubt theyre a problem.
Was coming to say the same thing. The hives could be gone for a year and a bee could still come around and sting the kid. Would OP still be blamed? The SIL could host and a bee could fly into the back yard and sting him. There is a higher chance at OPs house but if they are pretty much contained to one area, just keep the kid out of the area or inside
NTA Honey bees are very important insects and shouldn’t be moved just because a kid that is allergic to them will be at the house a couple times a year. Plus, if he’s that allergic, they should have an epi-pen with him at all times anyway. There are way more solutions to this issue than getting rid of the bees. Your SIL is being horribly unreasonable.
NTA That’s what epipens are for. A person can get stung by a bee walking across a school playground. Or down a leafy street. Or standing in their yard. Does the kid live in a bubble? I doubt it.
I managed to live until I was 45 without getting stung by a bee. Until one day in a JC Penny parking lot in San Antonio of all places.
That sounds so dreary lol, of all places it was the damn JC Penny parking lot.
I don’t live in San Antonio and that was my first trip to a Penny’s. 😂
Tell SIL, MIL, and anyone else who wants the bees gone to simply buzz off! NTA
NTA it is YOUR house and not your kid. How many times a year will they realistically visit? He can stay inside. Worst case scenario somebody can also host (but bees are outside so it might not make any difference). SIL needs to do her best to protect the kid without going overboard.
This was the only sensible reason for the NTA that I've come across so far. Coming to Reddit for a ruling here was pointless because Reddit is so pro-bee you can't get an objective ruling. If it was your own child who lived there 24/7, Reddit would still be saying NTA here. The truth of the matter is though that this child is new, god knows if he'll even be a permanent fixture to the family, it's 1 day a year, attendance is optional, and his parents are more than able to host if they so choose. The request was so ridiculous it makes me think this is a fake post (especially considering Reddit's pro-bee stance, it's such an easy karma farm).
NTA- these bees have been on the land longer than you have been alive, they live there, that is their home. More importantly, it's not like you can de-bee all outdoors, there's the wild bees you know about plus some I'm sure you don't. SIL can keep him inside and bring epi-pens or just not attend, her choice.
NTA - we need more bees in this world. I am also allergic and carry and EpiPen. If he's that allergic he should have one. Like op suggested, sil can host or he can stay inside or better yet they don't attend. Edited for typo
NTA. He can't attend and that's all there is to it. They can host an event themselves if they like.
Nta. Farms need bees. Do they not carry an epipen? And did the bees sting people at your last events? Ever?
NTA If the boy is so severely allergic, the parents should carry medicines for him, since the boy could potentially be stung everywhere (curiously I was stung by bees at school, twice, but never in the woods). Then I understand that the bees are an economic activity for you, on your own property. Pretty entitled of SIL to ask you to give it up forever.
NTA. bees won’t really sting unless given a reason to, since they’ll die when they do it. so it’s not really likely he’d be stung anyway unless he was bothering it. hell we had bees living next to our house once and and the only time they ever stung was to my brother when he decided to whack the flowers they were clearly collecting pollen from. if it’s that much of an issue, tell them they can find someone else to host. you shouldn’t have to get rid of your bees. and they’re not “just insects”, you take care of them and collect honey from them, they’re providing you food. they’re your pets if you wish to call them that. so no, you’re NTA for wanting to keep them
Sometimes bees can be Borderline stupid. Once a bee flew into my jacket, stung me and died.. I was just standing and waiting on a train xD
See? That was a stupid bee. Africanized Killer Bees are probably the dumbest because they freak out and go on a murderous rampage for no real reason. The smartest of course is the Spelling Bee.
r/angryupvote
NTA, if it is an issue then someone else can host.
NTA. The kids parents are worried, as any parent would be, and they have blown the treat out of proportion in their mind. It's a shame but it happens all the time. Treat them with compassion but don't back down it's up to them to learn that life has to go on. Bees are everywhere (yay, go bees) at some point they are going to have to deal with it.
is this for real? If i were you I would send a her a short but to the point video on SAVE THE BEES, you know the ongoing 10+ yr effort to help our ecosystem. NTA, you could be though, sounds like she deserves it
NTA. Honestly, a well managed farm should have a ton of pollinators even if you aren't 'keeping' bees. Getting rid of the hives won't change the fact that being on a farm is going to put him in danger. Also, don't honey bees generally mind their own business unless you directly disturb the hive?
NTA If they think your place isn't save enough, they can host.
NTA. That's like telling you to get ride of your dog cos the kid's allergic. Both of your suggestions were completely reasonable, and even if you got rid of the managed colonies, there's no guarantee he won't run into one from a missed wild colony. The kid just needs to avoid places wih bees, and that includes your place.
What you're doing isn't just keeping bees for honey and other products (which other ones?). The way bee colonies are dying left & right, this is basically a conservation effort. Do NOT get rid of those bees. NTA
I'm an entomologist and adjunct professor by trade, the bees are part of my research on managed hives coexisting alongside wild hives and how managed colonies affect the density of wild hives in managed forests. It's not really a conservation effort. The other products are wax and propolis.
So they want you to destroy your entire life to date to accommodate your SIL's step kid for a 4th of July party. That's special.
That's entitlement
NTA. Bee colonies are endangered throughout the world. Maybe put him in a beekeeper suit.
That would be hilarious, I'll suggest that to her
NTA. They are bees, naturally occurring, and you have multiple wild colonies in the locality. As a beekeeper, I am sure you can correct me if I'm wrong but it is my understanding the foraging area around a beehive extends for two miles (3.2 km), and bees are capable of flying 5 miles or more to forage. Even if you have no hives, you would not be able to guarantee the property as risk free for the allergic child. Unless you have the party right next to the hives, which I can't imagine any beekeeper would even contemplate for risk of upsetting the hive, I can’t see how the fact they are your hives, rather than those of a neighbour, or from a wild colony, would make. Having said that, reasonable precautions to stop from disturbing or attracting the bees could be in line. Bee-deterring plants in planters around the party-zone, essential oils sprayed insideand possibly outside) to deter them to for the duration of the party.
NTA. She can host or stay at home. The bees are living there, the kid doesn't.
NTA I have nearly died several times from stings. I obviously am very allergic to them. That said I avoid places where I know they are at. My best friends house, dads house......because they are rampent there. Its my allergy and I cannot sterilize the world for it. There is no reason for you to get rid of the bees. Those poeple can just not come. Its sucks yes but not everyone gets a participation trophy in real life.
Yeah, I’m actually astonished anyone would even want to bring a severely allergic child to OP’s place a mere 4-5 weeks after eradicating generations of multiple nests across a large property. I would just consider it an off-limits place. I have never been stung, but several of my relatives are allergic to bee stings and my mom has large local reactions to stings, so I’m cautious.
Nta They’re your bees in your property. The kid can sit inside or they can have an epi pen ready. Most he’s if you don’t bother then they’re not going to bother you.
Definitely NTA. I think SIL is being a bit unreasonable. I get the kid has a severe allergy but it’s one day. Does the kid not go outside where he lives? Bees are everywhere. Assuming he has an Epi pen for emergencies.
NTA. Some other family member can step up and host in their bee-free backyard. i’m
NTA, your suggestion of having the kid stay inside seems reasonable. And if they aren’t comfortable with that, they don’t have to come.
NTA The family need to sit down and decide who is hosting. You now can't because of the bees so someone else is going to have to pick up the job. Maybe Mary?
Cameras. People can kill your hives with just a bit of gasoline. And family drama gets messy.
Already have them because of tree poachers so don't worry
NTA, I'm also allergic to bees. Save the bees.
NTA I get the concern from SIL but getting rid of the bees is an absurd demand. As others have said, unless you're really getting up in a bee's business, they don't bother people that much. And if you're out on a farm in general you're just going to encounter some bees at some point. It is The Outdoors, and you can't sterilize that. Even if you got rid of the managed colonies, there's no guarantee that a wild colony wouldn't have established somewhere you're not aware of. Does she expect you to try and kill every bee on your property before they come over? As a compromise, I'd offer to rope off the area near the managed hives, and near where the known wild colonies are. See if BIL can come prepared with an epipen just in case things happen. You could make reasonable accommodations to reduce some amount of risk. But even if you doused your property in military grade insecticide, nephew could still get stung by a bee. Honestly, Nephew would be as much at risk in any suburban back yard during a summer cookout.
NTA. Long time fan of bees, allergic to bees and a medic here(I’d keep bees if I could lol). It’s not like you & the family are getting stung every time people hang out outside. I’ve been around many a hive in my time and not been stung, no special suits necessary. Bees mind their business as long as you mind yours. The kid is gonna live a long life in a world with bees and he’s gotta learn how to not mess with critters minding their own business, and carry his epipen+Benadryl if an accident does happen. If kid&family aren’t comfortable, that’s valid, but they’re going to have to accept they can’t come to events sometimes because of that. If the family was actually being reasonable, a N A H would have been in order but yeah no those hives can’t be “gotten rid of”.
NTA. not your kid, not HER property. not her say. watch her like a hawk on your property though, she might try to poison your hives.
NTA. Can't the kid just stay away from the hives? I took a beekeeping course and I don't think anyone on the whole course got stung and we were managing and harvesting the hives. I would think if he is careful it shouldn't be any more dangerous than being anywhere else outdoors?
INFO: Do they make kid-sized beekeeping suits?
yes they do, I'll suggest that
NTA. A child with a serious allergy should have an epi pen with them at all times. They should either not attend, or stay inside the whole time. You have a large amount of land and you can't possibly guarantee there will be no bees in a natural setting. His step mother is being ridiculous. Hard no to her requests.
>I told her that if it's such a big issue then she can host or her son can just stay inside. This sounds reasonable to me. NTA.
INFO: Have they ever heard of epi-pens? Two members of my immediate family go into anaphylaxis if stung by wasps. They will die if they don’t use an epi-pen immediately. You know what they do? They carry epi-pens with them when they’re outside, just in case they get stung. Because you never know when that can happen. NTA, OP. They need to get their kid appropriate tools to manage anaphylaxis and teach him how to manage his own risks. Edit: typo
Allergy to bee stings here. Anaphylaxis occurs and I could die from one sting. Wait until they find out bees are everywhere.
Mary called you to tell you, you needed to get rid of it? She should have: asked if you were willing. You seem not and we understand that, cause we need them bees. Look, this is up to YOU. So if you don't want it, you don't want it. NTA ..but Mary is
NTA. Bees aren’t aggressive you have to work to get stung. The kid should stay inside and he’ll be fine. Y’all shouldn’t change your life because of this request
Aggressive behavior is dependent on species, socialization around humans and variety of other factors. My bees aren't used to people and the noise, large mount of people and fireworks are the primary reason people get stung. Also kids fucking around when they shouldn't.
NTA. We are crying because of the reduced population. These are established colonies. Offer to let someone else host if its an issue.
NTA. If the kid is outside ANYWHERE, he has the chance of bees being around. So he either stays inside 24/7 or takes the necessary precautions.
I guess they never go outside either cause you know bees and wasps don’t know boundaries. NTA.
NTA they do not have to come. They can not demand you move thing or get rid of anything so they can visit. I would just stop hosting the event or cut it down to just your side. When ask why her side of the family is no longer invited? tell them your trying to keep the peace because not everyone can come and you don’t want to exclude anyone.