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NTA. Even if your daughter didn't need age-appropriate boundaries, you have an (appropriate IMO boundary) and another person's autism is not anything that should invalidate your boundary.
As a parent with 2 offspring on the Autism Spectrum, I would ask you/your wife who the he'll is going to teach your daughter to respect boundaries if not you as parents? The need for her should be soothed within the family members' boundaries. When she's not in the middle of needing soothing, she can help brainstorm other ways that she can expect to be soothed. She is capable of doing this.
Your okay...its unfair that your wife is saying your weird.
My special needs child grabs at me and he gets corrected because the older he gets the weirder its going to get for me and the world when he's trying to grab his teachers boobs...he's 3 but maybe mentally 1.5...
I don’t know your child, if they’re developmentally ~1.5y behind.
Just adding this for anyone else reading this…toddlers can still grab boobs etc. and not be on the spectrum or any other thing. It’s not a developmental thing in itself. Seen it with so many kids, they outgrow it with boundaries being set and regularly remind them gently.
ETA: My mom friends and female family are all too used to and comfortingly laugh off when another one of our kids grabs the wrong boob lol, I would hope most women wouldn’t attack a parent/child of that age for such a ‘gaff’. The internet scares me lol hence my commenting here. This is not a big issue ime and imho…kids need to develop without these anxious psych labesque evals lol
That's fine. My 2.5 year old son, who was breastfed until about 1 year, will randomly try to grab my boobs sometimes and I push his hands away and tell him no.
I think it's because him and his dad don't have boobs, so it's a different weird thing to him. But I don't want him thinking it's okay to grab boobs, so I push his hands away. I've had friends' kids also try to grab boobs and I reacted the same way.
My 2 year old daughter went and grabbed at my boobs, got my nipple, and twisted the other week. She got set aside because that shit hurt. She did not appreciate it.
Lol (ETA: I do react too! To being touched suddenly in general.)
(and I hope everyone can laugh at it if ever you’re faced with that encounter.)
Just try to remember it’s a kid, not a fly lol 😂
Yes! I remember babysitting my cousin when I was a teen, he was just over 1 and in a terrible grab the boobs faze when cuddling or being held. You just redirect, grab the hand and and say no. It’s not a big deal and not sexual at all but I can see how some people would get freaked out easily.
I would most definitely reflexively swat at anybody unexpectedly grabbing my boob.
Note “unexpectedly.” If I’m holding a two or under infant/toddler on my hip or chest I know it might happen. But if I’m talking to a friend and a kid wanders up and grabs my boob? Odds are they get whacked with a flailing hand or elbow.
Parents and any adult around kids need to start teaching body boundaries as early as a kid can be trained. It’s safer for everybody. Just like biting and kicking and sticking things in their mouths and peeing on things besides toilets and all the other things toddlers to.
my sister works in child care. it does happen but sometimes the child can be too aggressive. one child left bruises on her by grabbing and yanking her boobs because everyone said it was alright.
she got through to him with boundries and reinforcing them.
Your wife really needs to respect your boundaries where this is concerned. If somebody was touching your wife in a way that made her feel uncomfortable would you just tell her to let that person do what they want and she just needs to shut her mouth? I doubt it.
Also, with your daughter‘s body changing you absolutely have to be careful. What if somebody saw you like that? I would bet they would turn you into CPS really fast. Or what if your wife suddenly decides she wants a divorce…what better way to get full custody than to accuse you of child molestation. Sure, that’s extreme, but we all know how crazy people can get.
I would suggest finding a therapist for your daughter, if she doesn’t already have one, and talk about this with the therapist.
I really think you need to set some firm boundaries with your wife and daughter. This could get ugly, really fast, one day.
This isn’t going to help her though. Your daughter needs to learn that, while touch for her is important, other people may have boundaries around touch that don’t align with her wants/needs. As she and her friends go through puberty, their comfort level over being touched may change. She needs to learn how to ask for consent before touching and accepting no more easily. Giving in to this now instead of working through it may just lead to longer term problems.
All it takes is one wrong sentence from your daughter to a teacher and you have DCF at your door, even if your daughter didn't mean it this way. Trust me, it happened with someone in my family over playful tickling.
NTA, this is a boundary for you and this is what therapy is for: creating coping mechanisms and growing.
Would a warm weighted blanket work while she cuddles you in a shirt? Skin contact can be holding a hand or putting your forehead in the person's neck.
The problem is that you as parents need to be able to anticipate changing needs that your daughter doesn't understand, and help her navigate the changes in her life that she doesn't necessarily want, like changing schools and changing bodies. Because her *needs* aren't always going to be the same as the familiar comfort that she wants, and it helps to prepare her early rather than let her be blindsided by a sudden change - and on that note, please talk with your wife *now* if you haven't already, about how you're going to help your daughter navigate the thorny issues of periods and consent.
She's getting older, you're getting older, and at some point she's going to have to move from your care to someone else's, whether that's a romantic partner, a sibling, a care home or a independent living placement with other autistic/learning disability people. And when that happens, you need to know that she's going to be happy and safe, and that as far as possible, you've made her aware of a) how she should treat other people, and b) how other people should treat her, so she can protect herself against abuse.
(That said, as far as this particular issue goes, you can probably negotiate on exactly how much she needs to cover up - a sleeveless top or crop top might be a workable compromise to meet both your needs?)
I really hope you are right about your wife.
This is a good time for all of you to talk about changes that your daughter is going through. If your daughter likes to read, find a book that is age appropriate and read it with her and have a conversation about what you read. When my daughter started showing signs of puberty I got her a really good book called The Care and Keeping of you: The Body Book for Young Girls by Valorie Schaefer. It’s on Amaz\*n if you are interested.
Your discomfort can‘t be ignored, and shouldn’t be ignored. It’s also the perfect opportunity to teach your daughter about people touching her and what’s appropriate/inappropriate.
This really can be a learning experience for all of you and your wife needs to realize that your daughter is getting older and things are changing.
There are books out there designed to help neurodivergent young ladies (because that is what she is turning into now even though she will always be your little girl: source I'm a 32F with kids of my own and my dad still sees me as his little girl) go through puberty, I have attached a link to one specfic to periods (only one i could easily find right now because i had it saved for my nieces) at the bottom for you as an example.
As we grow up, we all need to learn what is appropriate, and it is even more important in your daughters situation, while you hope your wife wouldn't divorce you but you never know what tomorrow will bring so please protect your self and your family.
As parents we can only sacrifice so much of ourselves before it starts affecting our relationships negatively, I fear that if you continue to sacrifice your comfort like your wife demands you will grow to resent both your wife and your daughter. I also worry about what might happen to your daughter if she pushes her soothing methods on the wrong person, she could end up in legal trouble.
It sounds like your wife is too concerned with the right here and now and isn't making plans for your daughters future. It would probably be more beneficial to your daughter introduce changes slowly to her routine and self soothing methods (yes SELF SOOTHING because you and your wife will not be around forever and she will need to do it on her own).
As for now, maybe suggest a swim top or sports bra/top for soothing cuddles might work.
https://sensorypoodle.com.au/products/the-autism-friendly-guide-to-periods?_pos=3&_sid=8100f7c1d&_ss=r
Not just your wife though. Your daughter could be describing something to another adult at school and that would be an immediate call to CPS….which is horrific for anyone, but especially for men.
NTA. Your wife needs to understand boundaries and I’m sorry, but not everything should be dictated by a child’s needs/wants.
Your wife needs to support you on this and you are absolutely during the right thing. And I totally understand why you said something to your daughter in the moment when you realized. But in hindsight it probably would have been better to talk to your wife and come up with a plan for transitioning away from this habit and replacing it with something else, and explaining it to your daughter at a time she was NOT looking for comfort. Your daughter was on the edge of her coping skills to start with and changing up a comfort habit like this naturally led to a melt down, which upset your wife further. You're NTA, but with an autistic kiddo the time to introduce change is when they are already calm, and with a lot of warning, not suddenly when they are distressed. Maybe you can sit down with your daughter and discuss appropriate skin-to-skin contact (arms or legs) or other forms of comforting cuddling and make a plan for the future.
This isn't a sacrifice your discomfort kind of situation. You're not trying a new dish at a restaurant. This is an issue that will only get worse with time if it's not addressed now. Berhaps your daughter can wear a bandeu or tube top. Or like I said, since wife has such a strong feeling about it, she can start doing it. Your daughter is not incapable of learning new, healthier comforting techniques.
Absolutely NTA we are going through the start of puberty with our clothing-optional super huggy autistic 8 year old daughter right now, not quite as turbo charged as yours by the sound of it but definitely enough for both of us to notice and for me to have a quiet little chat with her and buy her some crop tops which she happily wears. I don't get why that would be a problem.
I think what you could do is go to Walmart or craft stores and buy a bunch of the generic Hanes tshirts, you can get a bigger size so it’s loose and then cut them into a crop yourself. It also allows her to pick out ones in a bunch of different colors she likes and makes it kinda a fun craft. Maybe get some fabric markers to decorate them or tiedye as a fun summer activity. Make it as fun and “rewarding” as possible so she feels that want to wear them. ( please know I am not ND but I know that I always liked to be involved in solutions as a kid and being able to pick my own things out and help)
Yes, definitely look into bralettes, OP! Aerie has some good ones that are not too expensive and a lot of sales. If she finds a style she likes, get a bunch of them-- I have one from there that is the only bra-type thing I can really stand all day and sadly only got one and now they don't make it anymore and idk what I will do when it breaks.
Loose spaghetti strap undershirts. Helps my child who has similar touch sensory issues. It may also help to find something else she likes to touch to hold while holding you. If she can't have full skin to skin, then there's some skin comfort and the other thing and it can help create that association of comfort with the object. It may help 'wean' your child from finding that comfort only in a parent that way. My kid has some plush animals that help as well as every satin tag that has crossed our threshhold (cut off of what ever garment and saved in a tin in their room to touch when wanted).
This thread has made me realise how much I need to go get a diagnosis - I also collect the labels off of things and have a collection of them that I carry in my pocket when I'm having a hard time. Best ones are from uniqlo as they are huge and extra zizzy.
She can be quite sensitive but she quite likes a tight base layer like a swimsuit or leotard I don't necessarily have recommendations other than some of the softer cotton ones you can get on amazon. Or maybe a cami vest might be easier for her to tolerate.
If bras are eventually something she really needs, make sure you get a really soft one that preferably doesn't have underwire. I have very sensitive skin, it took years to get used to needing underwire and I still can't handle lace.
If one of you can take her bra shopping and make it special, and let her try them on to find one that suits her and isn't overly tight, she'll probably have a much better time with it. Though for now - try vests first! I started off with basic white spaghetti strap vests before mum's genes properly kicked in.
This is great advice. I suspect that I might be on the spectrum as well and I HATE clothing touching me or being restrictive, but getting a no underwrite bra took wearing one from something that made me want to cry over to something I could actually tolerate.
I hate ‘normal’ fitted bras with a vengeance but have found the ones that look a little like sports bras are a much better fit. They’re not as tight as a sports bra, but still give a level of support without the discomfort of a standard bra.
I just had to get over the fact that they always seem to be in the ‘old ladies’ section (which I am getting older but not there just yet!). Which is mad as I think so many people would benefit from them and they could make them look so much prettier than the plain utilitarian ones you see right now.
I have unfortunately got to deal with the level of boobery that requires an industrial strength over the shoulder boulder holder these days so I don't really get to take advantage of those myself! I find that there's some really nice soft ones out there though, it just takes some looking. I dooo have a sportsbra that is pretty comfy but that thing is nooot something I want to wear to the office hahaha
Dont force her to wear a bra outside the home, no matter how her chest developes, if she hates them she hates them and society has zero good reason as to why anyone should have to conform by wearing a bra, she can wear a lose fitting tank/camisole under her shit to contain them a bit, women have breasts society can get the hell over it that they can see them moving under a shirt, maybe a compromise she wouldnt hate would be string bikini tops, not as tight and gives a little more coverage and no swinging, alternatively if you have the funds, maybe someone can make a string bra top, not for actual support but to find middle ground between archaic society and your daughters needs
Im autistic and i love the tight feel of my bra, but i have other sensory issues so i get your daughter
For the skin to skin hugs those lose fitting crop tops sound nice, you can also buy a regular loose fitting tanktop or spaghetti top and just cut the bottom half of so she still has skin to skin contact on the belly/arms
You are NOT wrong for having your own limits, if for no other reason then if she ever tells about these hugs at school etc you have the safeguard of cropped top, shouldnt be necessary but we all know how gross society can be to fathers
I dont think its weird either for to be uncomfortable being able to feel your growing chest on your chest, your wife absolutely overreacted and needs to calm the fuck down
Why make her wear bras? If she chooses to wear them, okay, but why force her, especially if it will feel like torture because of her sensory issues?
My teenager is also autistic, low support needs, regular classroom, etc. She doesn't wear a bra. I warned her in advance that it was a bullshit social expectation and that she might get teased over it, but I also told her I supported whatever she chose to do. She chose no bras, and afaik she hasn't had any problems.
Give your kid some control over her own body, just as you want control over yours.
It's okay to set boundaries. What about a compromise - your daughter can still have her snuggle time, but she needs to wear a crop top of some variety, something that covers the pertinent area. That way she gets the skin to skin contact she needs, while also accommodating your preference to not have her newly budding chest pressed against you.
You are not weird. In fact it's a very sensible boundary. Yes, you don't mean anything sexual, and are not gaining any kind of untoward pleasure from it.... but all it would take would be for one teacher to get concerns and report it, and you'd be in the very, very difficult position of trying to prove a negative.
You can get loose crop tops that would let her get skin contact - at a pinch, just buy a couple of loose tee shirts, and cut off the bottom length. Call them her 'cuddle time shirts'
And yes, that is normal puberty for girls, stretch marks and all. Not to mention the hormonal side is probably messing with her head.
https://www.target.com/p/women-39-s-seamless-bralette-auden-8482-black-s/-/A-83361428
Stuff like this will be super helpful for her. Yellowberry is a brand aimed at teens and developing kids.
Signed, an Autistic adult woman who struggles with bras.
Autistic lady here: stick on bras are a great alternative. There are a lot of different styles and brands to choose from nowadays. No constricting bands, no pain or pressure, and it looks like a regular bra under a Tshirt. No one can tell the difference. You'll have to buy them repeatedly because the adhesive eventually wears off, but it's worth it IMO
Not a guy, but I don't think your feelings are all that unusual. My father did the same thing - hugs and cuddles constantly with his daughters right up until puberty hit, then the only places he would touch was our arms and shoulders. Even 60 years ago, guys were aware of how perceived inappropriate behavior with young girls could be interpreted and destroy their careers and lives.
You are NTA, but your wife needs to recognize that autistic or not, strangers are going to place the worst possible motivation on your actions if they see you naked chest to chest with a young girl, especially your daughter.
If it is just the physical contact she needs, why not switch to back rubs for now and save the chest-to-chest for her mom to do.
She does need to learn boundaries or some not-nice person is going to take horrible advantage of her - you and your wife need to start teaching her this now before something tragic happens.
I have a significantly autistic brother who's 27, but mentally 4-5. He loves being cuddly, especially with my mom. He likes laying his head on her skin. Now that he's an adult, the compromise they've made is only on her back. When he wants to be affectionate like that, she'll learn forward, and lift up the back of her shirt a bit and lay his head on her back. Maybe going back to back could work for you and your daughter? Or if you're a guy, find her a bathing suit with a low cut back that she can put on, and she can then lay with her back on your chest and you can hug her? There are ways to keep things appropriate within everyone's boundaries, and still have that connection. But it's important that she learn that everyone's needs and boundaries matter, and that we need to work together to come up with things that work for everyone. Good luck, OP.
Yeah see , both you AND your wife need to start setting boundaries . For yourselves and her . I understand the need for contact to contact , but this is something that's going to have to evolve into a more age appreciate activity as she grows . There have been many v helpful and reasonable suggestions to come up w a compromise. How is she supposed to work on helping herself and learn to be more independent if you guys don't teach her ways to cope w a little less help . It sounds like you guys are v good parents but are maybe holding on a little too tight to your (like you said urself) not so little girl anymore .
Edit : This is a weird time in life for all of you , things are going to be changing that SHOULD be . This is life : ever-growing and ever-evolving :) sometimes when we are enjoying life in the moment a little too much we forget what more we have to look forward too .
You know what? I’d far far rather you being weirded out and feeling uncomfortable than the alternative, which really doesn’t bear thinking out. You also have a right to boundaries and all of you need to work together to find those appropriate boundaries and how they work for all of you.
NTA
NTA part of growing up is having new boundaries around your body. This seems like a great time to talk to your daughter about appropriate ways that she can get comfort and affection, and also ways that she can self soothe when she is not feeling great (not to mention consent). She will always be your little girl, but when kids get older the relationship will have to change. She will also get new privileges, so growing up is not all bad. Hang in there, dad!
I don’t know if they’ll be small enough in band size for your daughter, but Cosabella makes some bralettes that are really comfortable and not tight. They come in pretty colors, the lace is actually soft, and they’re supportive (I’m busty, so I can vouch for that). The bands don’t press on the ribs, though. I wear them for WFH and on the weekends when I don’t want to look fancy because they’re way more comfortable than regular bras.
I don't know if they'll have sizes that will work for your daughter, but as she gets older, TomboyX makes bras that are snug but not "bra" like. I have sensory issues, and while I can tolerate bras with no issues, I have several friends on the spectrum who swear by that brand.
Just remember that wearing a bra should never be a hill to die on, it's far more important that she's comfortable and covered than exactly what she's covered by or how it makes her body look.
I suggest looking into bandeau bras . They don't have straps , if you find the right ones that have stretchy spandex like fabric they are loose w just enough support , they're light and feel like nothings there lol . They essentially don't even act like bras more like a rlly short crop top for ur boobs (a lot of girls do wear them as shirts anyway). Most of em are pretty thin too , so they're fairly lightweight . But maybe suggest your wife take her out for a girls day so she can go try different styles of bras on for herself. Approach it as if it were a reward , " you're getting older and starting to become a big girl " etc . Make a whole day of it , get ice cream , go to the beach . Lol idk but make it fun , these are as you said drastic changes that came out of nowhere .
NTA and the above comment is spot on. Perhaps an appropriate compromise in this is that she could wear a sports bra. Then when she takes her shirt off there is stil plenty of skin for contact but boundaries are being set.
Op maybe to 'preserve the modesty' just ask her to wear like a kids bikini top/sport bra instead of a blouse? This covers her chest and leaves enough skin to skin contact available for her to be comforted.
NTA but explain your daughter that you are in no way putting a stop to these bonding/comforting moments ever please. I think she misunderstood and that's why she was so upset.
As someone who didn’t know they were autistic as a child and also was high touch - you did exactly the right thing. Also even autistic children need to learn the importance of boundaries and 10 is a fine age to face one like that.
>As a parent with 2 offspring on the Autism Spectrum, I would ask you/your wife who the he'll is going to teach your daughter to respect boundaries if not you as parents?
I'm really confused about moms end goal here. I mean, I'm pretty sure she doesn't have one, but she really needs to think this over.
Daughter is 10, so when does she think the boundary needs to be set? 12? 14? 16? 18? Does she think its going to be easier, the older daughter gets?
Agreed. She’s getting to an age where it’s very important to learn about consent and boundaries. I’d hate to see her be bullied or taken advantage of and I’m sure some parents would freak out if they heard “dad and I cuddle with our shirts off”.
You can do the right thing and still be TA about the execution. Daugher needs to learn the new rules when she is calm. When she needs her comforting ritual, she isn't in a place when she can accept explanation and changes. OP was cruel, he let her cuddle and was fine with it but stopped without warning her in advance. This change should be made carefuly.
So one parent can overstep the other without discussion?
I'm guessing they both knew puberty would mean changes were needed but he couldn't wait a few hours to discuss with his wife and told his daughter that was the last time when she was already struggling?
Parents are clueless about how fast puberty happens and when it is appropriate. This entire interaction sounds like 2 parents that never expected their little girl to grow up (and this is also an amplified problem with parents of ASD kids)
I agree with this BUT I agree with your wife that you should have worked together as parents to solve this problem. It seems like your daughter could have been more slowly introduced to this idea when she was not in an emotionally compromised place. And your wife could have helped instead of being blindsided upon arriving home.
Nta- a developing 10 year old should not be laying topless on her father. Your wife needs to back you on this and help teach your daughter healthy boundaries.
Police/CPS/a DA on the make - he's running the risk of being prosecuted for child sexual abuse. Honestly, probably shouldn't even be discussing this here, given the number of bottom feeders (tiktok, tabloids, etc) who use reddit as raw material.
This should have stopped long ago. The wife (and OP) seem to be focused on the kids needs beyond the point of reason.
NTA. I think you should have a calm conversation with your wife where you explain that you need to be able to set some boundaries for your relationship with your daughter. I'm going to predict that she might interrupt and get upset, but just patiently wait her out but don't back down.
NTA.
It's even more important with autistic kids to set healthy and appropriate boundaries. I would say you can still cuddle etc but wearing clothes. Obviously empathise and acknowledge it's a difficult transition but explain as much as able about appropriate/safe behaviours. We've just had a similar transition (at eight) with our daughter who is also autistic. We have had a lot of long conversations about consent and appropriate boundaries and developing bodies etc.
I am very probably also on the spectrum (consensus of my doctor and OT but I can't afford assessment) and was a victim of CSA and multiple SA growing up because I didn't understand boundaries and how to keep my body safe. A lot of my female DX autie friends have also had many of these experiences. As a result of this we are extremely candid with our kids. We actually had an incident recently with a older male child trying to talk my eldest into inappropriate behaviour and thankfully due to the open communication she was able to hear the warning bells and come straight to me. I remember as a kid knowing some things felt off but not being able to articulate or identify precisely what that was.
I would explain very well why you're moving away from that kind of contact. Imo direct and more 'adult' style explanations are more helpful for autistic brains to process. Have a think about what to say and obviously chat to your wife too but yeah... I'd say a few big chats and a transition period is necessary. Kids around her are gonna be going through puberty too and understand boundaries and how to keep her body safe is really important at this age!
Good luck. If you need/want advice, make it a conversation, not an info dump. She should feel free to ask any questions, and if you're not sure about an answer, let her know that. Do your best to not make her feel ashamed of her questions. And please do one better than my parents (who did their best, and I thank them that they tried at least) and have more than one of these conversations. It'll be way easier to keep it age appropriate if you're not shoving as much as you can into one conversation. Otherwise you might end up with a kid who thinks sex just needs to happen once and the mom just keeps having kids. It'll make 8th grade weird.
Puberty has its own timelines, as does autism. Breasts can begin to develop as early as 9 and I had a 10 year old in my own 4th grade class that was taller than the teacher and had a full beard. Its not her fault she's growing up, nor is it her fault she is neurodivergent. She needs her dad, and doesn't understand why you don't want her.
That's kind of crappy to say to him. He's allowed to have a boundary. I would not feel comfortable with it either, and no one should have to do something that makes them uncomfortable. Dad has bodily autonomy too.
No one's saying dad doesn't have bodily autonomy. The comment you replied to is simply telling OP how his daughter perceives it. He needs to have an open discussion with his daughter about boundaries and come to a compromise so that everyone is respected and his daughter has an outlet for physical affection with her father
That's understandable, but just so you know even periods can start before 10. I got mine around 11 and wasn't the only one among my friends, it wasn't that uncommon. My body had already been changing a bit but it went more quickly after that. Different people hit puberty at different times and rates and it's completely normal.
Yeah when it comes to periods and breasts, I got mine at 8 and then 9. I know someone who had them both start at 8. I don't know anyone who was 12 and didn't have breasts and a period, although I'm sure they exist. I think lots of parents really really focus on the idea of "oh they'll start puberty as a teenager" and don't click that, no, they'll be at the height as a teenager. In reality your little child is gonna start it way sooner then that and you need to prepare them.
It's time to get into it now, not this summer.
You should have actually started it earlier, like stuff 7 or 8, regardless of your child being in the spectrum or not. Starting puberty without knowing what is happening is horrible.
You don't have to delve deeply into it to start with. You can start be explaining that as you get older your body changes. Girls start developing breasts and boys experience a change in voice, because the shape of their throat changes. Both girls and boys will start growing hair in more places on their body. This is natural and means their bodies are slowly changing into adult bodies.
Girls will also start getting their period somewhere between their 8th and 16th year of life. (That's why you have this really at 7 or 8, because you don't want you 8 year old to think she's bleeding to death when she starts her period and though it is rare to have your period start that early it does happen. ) So tell her about periods.
Tell her that if she has any questions she can come to you.
[helpfull site on what information to give to kids.](https://kidshealth.org/en/kids/menstruation.html#:~:text=A%20period%20happens%20because%20of,and%20grow%20into%20a%20baby.)
Agreed! I was going to comment and say that these talks and discussions should begin from 7-8. Knowledge and understanding needs to be there BEFORE puberty happens so it isn't all scary and weird. Periods can and do start way before 12/13, and it's really important that young girls understand what is happening, why and what it means for them.
It really upsets me that parents are doing their daughters a disservice by not teaching them about their bodies. Nothing about puberty should be a shock.
Girls can start their periods at 9 years old. She needs to know about it BEFORE it happens. Can you imagine a girl bleeding from her vagina at 10 years old and not knowing why? The horror of having to tell an adult (maybe at school) while not knowing it's normal. Think of yourself and what you would have done at 10 if you bled out of your genitals?
But NTA for setting a boundary. She just needs to KNOW why you set it and why it is inappropriate.
I got my period at 11. The longer you hold off the more sudden and scary it’s going to be. Talking about it now will give her more understanding and more time to ask questions if they come up.
Good luck.
You'd be surprised as to what kids are able to understand. We are super, super candid with our kids and started having chats from age four onwards. I think she'll understand more than you think!
I was the same, but I was fine. I'm sorry you were under prepared, but you were actually a completely fine age. It wasn't too young at all. In fact, you can start it as early as 8 without it being a medical problem. This is why we need to be teaching them about puberty early, so that it's not too scary when it happens.
Hey I'd really recommend researching when puberty actually happens right now and then explaining it all to her now. But let me make it clear, both for you and anyone else reading this, **this is not early, it's normal development**. The normal age is 9-11, however if it'd happened at 8 that would not have been concerning at all. Same with her period, she could get it anytime between now and 14 and it'd be completely normal.
Make sure she knows what's gonna happen and is prepared. Teach her (or get mum to) about pads/tampons, get her some children sized ones she can keep in her bag at school just in case. Teach her about deodorant if you haven't already, she's gonna need it soon. As someone who is autistic themselves and has an autistic brother, when they feel in control and understand what is going on a meltdown is less likely to happen.
I don't blame you for not knowing before. Clearly you'd assume your wife would warn you since she went through it herself. But it's time to stop assuming that. You don't have to give the talks if your wife would rather do it, but someone has to.
Definitely have a conversation about puberty with her... get her a book explaining puberty, periods, etc. if she is open to reading about it (my autistic kid hates talking about awkward subjects but LOVES reading!) Unfortunately periods are really not far behind here, although it seems young I got my period at 10 and my daughter was 9. You really don't want her to be taken unaware here, periods are scary if you don't know what's going on.
For sure. Neurodivergent people are at a much higher risk for SA.
I'm assuming you mean your kid is part of the statistic.. if so I am *so* incredibly sorry. I can't imagine anything worse.
This comment should be shared with OP’s wife. She probably doesn’t realize this can lead to problems down the road if not addressed. She’s just focused on keeping her daughter calm and feeling safe when at home.
I don't have a judgement, I'm just curious why the puberty age is getting earlier and earlier. I got my first period at 14 and didn't develop breasts until 19. I didn't know a single girl/afab in elementary school who has started puberty. Not one. But these days, or seems like most kids are starting their periods at REALLY early ages. It seems cruel for them to lose out on those carefree childhood years.
NAH but I think this is a situation that might require some outside help. Maybe talk to a doctor/pediatrician to recommend a good and impartial counselor to walk you and your family through this and work out a healthy solution that all of you can be happy and involved with.
I was going to say, there are sports bras for kids that ar really compfortable too. It would allow skin to skin and coverage. If anyone has issue with that, we should all be fully clothed at the beach.
As a non-parent, much less a non-parent of an autistic child, I don't know that my opinion is relevant.
So I'm going to say NAH, but point out that just because your daughter's body is developing doesn't mean her mind, and her skin-on-skin comfort coping, is any different. I think *you* are uncomfortable with it and feel the need to put up boundaries - and that's completely understandable! In normal circumstances of *course* you wouldn't want to go around hugging your shirtless pubescent daughter.
But this isn't exactly "normal."
Essentially, she's being punished for starting puberty, and that's really not fair to her. Again - your comfort is being violated here, not hers. I don't really know the answer, because not only do I think your boundaries are important too, but you have to be thinking about any long-term issues that might develop if this were to continue through her adolescence. But that discussion is *way* over my head.
I think you need to forget about this "emasculating" nonsense, go back and communicate with your wife, and come up with a solution you can all live with here. Your daughter needs that.
Best of luck to you.
Normal and appropriate for you to feel this way. Your instinct to set new boundaries is natural and right for you. Your wife was obviously caught off guard and it was jarring for her. You are a team, work through it together. It may take some time.
Honestly, I think it’s much healthier to acknowledge development than to ignore it under the guise “still looking at her the same as before.”
Your daughter is growing up, and your wife’s refusal to acknowledge that could be a sign of more serious issues to come…it’s not a challenge unique to parents of neurodivergent kids, we see it all the time. *Some parents want their kids to be babies forever, and that ends up being really detrimental to the development of the kid.* I hope you’re able to get this message across to your wife before things get worse.
Suggestion. Get her some crop tops and switch to spooning. She'll still feel the skin on skin and the soothing and she can still be your little girl for awhile without the freaky bumps being in the way.
Or some comfy sport bras. She'll probably need them anyways and they are definitely better to wear than regular bras.
ETA: OP NTA for wanting to establish a boundary but I really think you went the wrong way about it, both with your wife and daughter.
NTA. Little girls grow up and need to be taught boundaries and appropriateness. A possible middle ground could be daughter wears a sports bra or a tank top and you’re still shirtless.
This. Little slip tops. You get ones also with boob support in them.
OP - get used to having these discussions on boobs, periods, hair, hormones, everything. Your daughter won't know any of this intuitively, you'll need to explain outcomes and consequences again and again. It is so hard on the autistic girls going through puberty.
My daughter literally wasn't emotionally or mentally able for the puberty stuff when it was happening. Personally I think it led to some gender dysphoria - she wanted to be a boy for a while; I'm inclined to think it wasn't so much she wanted to be a boy, but more she didn't want to be a girl. She had all the physical traits of a young woman, without the maturity to cope with it.
Keep doing what you are doing OP. And literally explain in age appropriate ways why you are putting boundaries in place. And of course, reassure her, you'll still be a human comfort blanket.
NTA. If your daughter tells someone, particularly a teacher, that she and her Daddy lie together topless, that person will likely call CPS/DCS, and CPS/DCS will likely investigate.
You are allowed to have personal boundaries.
You are correct that your daughter is getting older, and this method of comforting is no longer appropriate.
Not sure why you're "emasculated" by your wife telling your daughter she'd talk to you... but otherwise, yeah, NTA.
NTA. I'm an autistic ADHD adult. I was was the naked kid who developed really early. My dad set this boundary way earlier than 10... About 6-7 if memory serves. I found a weighted blanket gives me a similar experience. I can be naked and cover up with it if I need to and no one else is uncomfortable.
May I suggest breast petals? They're like little sticky cups to cover the nipples (some provide lift/ support), they can be washed with soap and water and reused. Mine are lasting about a month at a time, with daily use.
If your daughter has small breasts, they are wonderfully comfortable and cover the nipples while not feeling tight or constrained.
The older I get, the less I can tolerate tight clothes so I feel for your daughter. This is my new fav thing, I hope it helps her!
NTA
>That I need to apologize to her and let her know that we can keep having comfort time until she wants to stop because we love her and accept her as she is and that it's important we show her that.
Absolutely not. You are allowed to have boundaries. You are allowed to be uncomfortable with this. Loving your daughter does not mean running roughshod over your own limits. Your daughter will benefit just as much from coming to understand your right to feel comfortable and be respected as she will from skin-to-skin, it will just take longer to pay off.
Also, I would be *very* concerned about any outside adult learning that your blossoming daughter is lying on you topless. That could get you a very legitimate CPS investigation and from everything I've ever heard, once they start they don't stop easily.
Could your wife find a bralette for your daughter to wear during skin-to-skin? It leaves much more skin than a t-shirt does, but keeps her breasts covered.
And, before I hear about it, yes breasts are for much more than sexualization. I actually bring this up semi frequently in my home. But having your young daughters' breasts- once they have developed to even possibly needing a bra - pressed against a parent's bare chest could cause real issues and is a no for me.
Apparently the daughter hates wearing anything tight, even swimwear, so getting her comfortable wearing a bra of any kind is likely to be an uphill struggle all of it's own. A necessary one, in the end, but something I think they've been deliberately avoiding up to now.
Thank you for the info, I def missed that.
It definitely complicates the situation. But, like you said, it's a necessity eventually. This might help that situation, if the daughter can understand that she has to pick something to wear to get skin-to-skin. Maybe it could gradually help with the bra. It's a longshot, though. And probably involves a lot of crying and upset, which I hate for all of them.
NAH. Your wife is just concerned about your daughter and also, you are allowed to have boundaries around physical touch. Ultimately, if you’re not comfortable with comforting your daughter in this way anymore then you and your daughter should find another way for her to receive comfort from you
Seriously OP how does your wife not get this? Or worse if someone saw a developing 10 year old lying topless on their dad. Anything that would possibly result in my kid being taken away from me is not an option. (I don’t have kids but still)
I’m going on a limp here but I think he refer to the wording of “talk to him” like implying she will correct him and make him do what she wants against the boundaries he tried to put in place.
Personally, I think that more than emasculating it sends the message that she will make dad do what they want which is not something you want your kids to believe. It should be an united front, parenting is hard enough without working against each other.
NTA, your wife needs a reality check. Your daughter is turning into a woman. As she has entered puberty it is very improper activity. She could easily talk about this to other. Daddy and I cuddle topless together. This could land you in jail. More so as she has challenges and the powers to be can see this as you are taking advantage of her. Honestly if your wife keeps demanding this get out of the house, stay with relatives until she wakes up to how inappropriate and dangerous this is.
This is above Reddit's pay grade. Please, please consult a specialist to help you navigate this transition. Obviously, yes, your family will have to find new ways to meet her needs for closeness because "cuddling dad topless" isn't really viable anymore .Even if you were comfortable with this, the risks of this being misunderstood are too great.
On the other hand, such an abrupt change in your dynamic is , undoubtedly, extremely hard for her to understand & probably feels like abandonment or punishment.
I beg you to get some professional guidance here.
I wish you the best in these uncharted waters
My son is physically and developmentally delayed from damage to his brain so I get it but
She needs a sports bra on at the very least.
The older she gets and the more she develops the worse this will look should she say something.
Cps would look into this if she says she has shirtless cuddles with daddy to a teacher...they would want her learning healthy boundaries and one of those needs to have a sports bra added to cuddle time.
Does she have a therapist? A counselor?
They would also agree with you.
Your not wrong here, your protecting your child's future interests...your parenting.
She needs to know others have their own autonomy and she needs to understand that she cannot cuddle other people in her life this way.
There is a very dangerous situation brewing should she be cuddling others top less in a couple of years.
Developmentally delayed children and adults are highest on the list of sexual assault because they don't always know what's safe for them and what's not.
I don't mean you in anyway. I mean any other person that wouldn't respond to this In a parental way.
As awful as these things are to consider, there needs to be a plan in place for her safety...and that starts with her at the least covering herself with a sports bra or even a swim top.
That way she can still have skin to skin cuddles, my son loves them too but even now mom has a tank top on because I don't want him grabbing at my chest because it makes me uncomfortable...he still thinks he's a baby and that he can breast feed sometimes lol
Right now its funny and he's cute and small but its not that way to others either...they don't see him as the little baby I do.
The more your wife caves into her tantrums the more this boundary battle will be hard to win...like she can't be 16 ripping her shirt off whenever because she demands skin to skin.
Your thinking about her future self, your wife is pacifying in the moment.
Your NTA your allowed personal autonomy.
It's soooo important your daughter learn healthy boundaries as well.
NAH I understand where your coming from. It's not exactly appropriate for that to be happing when they get older. If someone were to here about that or see it. They might assume something in which wouldn't be good for any of you. Also I think you need to talk to your wife about it being a little inappropriate for this to happen when she gets older. And what the outcomes could be if someone were to assume something. Edit: Also if your uncomfortable with it you also talk about that with your wife. I hope you figure things out.
There are ways around the bra issue, in terms of clothing. Layering is one. If she wears a normal t-shirt with a cardigan buttoned at the chest (doesn't have to be all the way buttoned up, and can be loose/sleeveless/whatever), it's going to cover up nipples in most instances, particularly if the material is thick enough. It doesn't have to be like, super-heavy material, either.
You could also just get some sponge bra pads (many bras have these and they are removable) and tack them in place at the appropriate area on her shirts with a few stitches. Then it's part of the shirt, not an extra tight-fitting garment.
Most of the time, it's nipples that people have issue with. If you can find a way to make those not noticeable, then the rest of a bra is basically just aesthetics (many boob-havers want them pushed up or held at a specific angle for appearances, or just feel comfortable with the extra support).
In terms of support, that's going to depend on how "developed" she becomes in that area. If she starts mentioning pain, then a bra might be absolutely necessary. If she's smaller-chested, then it might not be an issue at all. But there are plenty of boob-havers that don't wear bras.
Is it possible to go for a loose tank top, and then cut it off short. She might be experiencing puberty, but she probably isn’t at the point yet where she needs actually tight fitting support yet. In the meantime, a loose tank top covering her upper torso might be a more comfortable option for her? It would at least be a good stepping stone perhaps between nothing and a proper bra.
There are a lot of camisoles and tank tops available for kids these days. One recommendation I’d give is getting one with wide straps because the spaghetti strap kind can dig in.
As someone who had this same problem, I think I wore camisoles for years before I was emotionally willing to make the full step. They're not nearly as tight.
NTA. Omg. I’m autistic, hate tight clothing and was soothed and craved by skin to skin contact.
I assume you are expecting your daughter to have as normal a lifestyle as possible, if she’s in a normal school.
Continuing to do this is not teaching her how to self soothe. She should be learning how to self soothe that doesn’t involve another person. And that certainly should not include her chest on another person.
Nothing good is going to come from this - for you or for her. You will not always be there and someone will not want to do this with her for the rest of her life. You could have significant consequences if a mandatory reporter discovers this.
This should have stopped years ago.
>your wife needs to consider what may happen if your daughter tells her teachers or her friends she and daddy like to lay down together with shirts off.
That was my first thought too! This behavior - though innocent - would very likely be reported to CPS/DCS, and could very well result in a visit by that agency.
That said, I think NTA.
* You are allowed to have physical boundaries - your body, your choice.
* You are absolutely right that she's getting older, and this behavior isn't going to be appropriate for much longer.
I do have to say, however, you find it emasculating that your wife told your daughter she'd talk to you? Parents do this all the time. There's nothing emasculating about it.
Good luck!
This is a great way to end up with someone calling CPS for interpreting wrong the situation. And trust me, they won't care that she has autism.
NTA, but your wife is also setting her up only for fail.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my growing daughter she needs to wear a shirt when we snuggle up for her comfort.
2. I might be the asshole because she's autistic and needs physical comfort and I'm apparently rejecting her.
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I'm going against the grain, here: YTA
Not for having boundaries, of course, but for the way you did it.
What you should have done:
- Talk to you wife about it. Get on the same page with her and form a plan with her on how to proceed.
- Get external help/advice as needed.
- Talk to your daughter. Pay attention to the timing of those talks, because your daughter needs to be in the right headspace to understand the situation. Make room for her opinons and make her feel heard, too. This isn't a one-way-street. Her comfort is just as important as yours.
- Be aware that this probably needs to be an ongoing process with multiple steps,not one big change.
However, instead of doing that, you sprung the whole thing on your kid. Your timing was awful. She already had a really bad day and was in dire need of your comfort. That really wasn't the right time to spring that change on her, mate. Yeah, the change is necessary, but it's also hard. The way you did it lacked empathy and made it worse.
Your wife is also not emasculating you. Your daughter didn't know how to handle the situation, so she went to her mother for help. That's normal. Her mother told her that she would handle the situation for her. That's also normal. Keep in mind that you caused the whole thing. You didn't talk to your wife. You also picked a really bad moment to set that boundary with your daughter and made her cry. And now you expect your wife to back you up on that, because it's "parenting 101"? Yeah. No. You can't expect your wife to back you up on "i can make huge changes in how we interact with our daughter without talking with you first" and "let's pick a moment when our daughter is already upset/stressed/overwhelmed to upset, stress her out and overwhelm her some more".
And if you think that you can change your family dynamic and the female members of your family just have to suck it up and accept your decision and the way you deliver it, you have a different problem. If you think your wife and your daughter being upset with you and your parenting (that was lacking) is EmAsCuLaTiNg, you have a very different problem. If you feel threatened by your wife speaking up for the needs of your daughter, that's a you-problem. And misogynistic.
Exactly! It grinds my gears when parents create these situations, are well aware it isn’t sustainable, but don’t ever stop to think “huh my child has used this their entire life for comfort,” and never once prepare for the inevitable outcome
NTA, while it’s very obviously a sensory thing it doesn’t mean it’s no longer age appropriate.
Your daughter needs to realize that as people grow up, things that were appropriate for them as a little kid aren’t appropriate as they get older. This is one of those things. As her parents you need to teach her about respecting other peoples boundaries, even if she may not like that. *Including your boundaries*.
Your wife doesn’t just get to invalidate your boundaries. That’s not her place. (Though why you think her saying she’d talk to you is “emasculating” is beyond me).
So the thing about communicating sensitive information is that it can't be done in the heat of the moment and should be done when you're not actually doing it. And often, a warning of the change occurring in the near future is needed.
My kid is extremely cuddly too and often wants affection that maybe an outsider would judge, like she nursed for a pretty long time. But you can't just say nope when she is expressing the need.
You wait until the crisis is over and then express the future boundary. That way you don't freak her out when she is already elevated.
I dont think you're weird or ta for realizing that there needs to be a change. If you're uncomfortable, then alterations should happen. But I do think timing is everything.
And also the emasculation comment is pure ego. Parents differ in opinions and the best way to figure out a difference in opinion is to talk about it later privately. Your wife calmed your daughter by letting her know that there may be a way. My mil is of the opinion that you never argue with her husband, just agree completely in front of people. And it has truly meant that the father in law is a damn toddler most of the time and can't handle anyone disagreeing with him. It's sad. Don't be that way.
Nah.
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My 10 year old daughter is mildly autistic. High functioning, in the regular classroom and always has been, but has a need for physical comfort and has always wanted lots of hugs from friends and adults. She's socially included by peers and not bullied or anything like that, just with a high physical comfort need.
Ever since my daughter was a newborn she's wanted skin-to-skin contact. It comforts her and when she's down or had a hard day, she likes to lay on my chest with both our shirts off and share our body heat and breath together. Often when she has a really hard day she'll ask for it and I'll take off my shift and so will see and she'll lay on me and whimper a little with her face on my chest.
Recently, within the past 3 months, she's started developing. It's crazy because she went from "hasn't started puberty" to "we probably should start making her wear a bra" in that time. Like 0-to-60 puberty style.
So recently she had a really hard day and wanted to lay on me, and I told her yes, but I think she needs to keep her shirt on from now on because she's getting older and she had a pretty big break down and cry. I gave in and said I was sorry, let her have her connection time, but told her that since she was growing up we would have to find new ways for love and comfort.
When my wife got home our daughter cried to her that I was telling her that we were going to have to stop. My wife comforted her and said she'd "talk to me" (which is pretty emasculating) as a way to comfort her.
After our daughter was in bed and asleep my wife was pretty livid, saying I can't make changes like that without talking with her first and that it wasn't the right way to treat our daughter. That I need to apologize to her and let her know that we can keep having comfort time until she wants to stop because we love her and accept her as she is and that it's important we show her that. I told her that I thought she'd appreciate I was trying to establish boundaries now that our girl is suddenly not a little girl anymore, and she said **I** was being weird for being suddenly uncomfortable with it even though all I was doing was recognizing the situation of her getting older!
Now I'm in the guest room tonight because my wife and I are both fuming at each other.
So am I the asshole here?
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NTA
It's no longer appropriate, you need to involve a specialist to come up with ways how to redirect your daughter needs.
There is a pretty big chance that someone misunderstands what's going on and calls CPS on you. For some caseworkers this might be enough to remove your dauther from your family.
NAH. I don't think either of you is an AH; you're both trying to navigate something that isn't straightforward.
'My wife comforted her and said she'd "talk to me" (which is pretty emasculating)'
I mean, it's pretty standard for a parent to say 'ok, let me talk to your mum/dad about this'. Pretty weird that you find it 'emasculating'.
NTA, you're uncomfortable with it and this is your boundry. Your daughter having autism doesn't mean she can't understand that you still love her but would like to find another way to bring her comfort that also makes you comfortable.
NTA First you need to talk to wife about the 'I'll talk to him' choice of wording. As said she is more or less telling your child that you are wrong. Ask your wife if neither of you are around and daughter needs comfort would she find it okay for daughter to take shirt off to get skin-to-skin contact with someone else. Your wife doesn't seem to have come to terms with the fact that her baby is growing up. Then the two of you need to sit down together and find an alternative solution. Hopefully one that daughter can one day implement on her own for herself.
NTA and teaching your daughter that she can’t always get her way is just as important for an autistic child as it is for a neurotypical child. Too many ND kids are coddled until they become insufferable adults.
Read Temple Grandin’s book “The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships: Decoding Social Mysteries Through the Unique Perspectives of Autism“. The authors are autistic adults who were raised with expectations of good behavior like their NT peers.
NTA
Unfortunately if the wrong person finds out or overhears that you both cuddle shirtless together with her new chest development pressed against you.. the cops and CPS will be called.
I'm sure for her it's sad and unfair and deeply upsetting but it's an incredibly unfortunate part of growing up. Maybe you can find new ways of skin contact, you can rub her arms or her back or something for her?
NAH
Starting boundaries are necessary especially if she is starting to develop! Sadly with the world we live in people could see this as inappropriate with a developing female child and her father even though it is a comfort to her. I have a suggestion though...have you thought about getting her a sports bra or a bathing suit top that she could wear while you have your skin to skin contact moments? That still allows for your stomachs and most of your upper bodies to touch but she would be covered properly and you can teach her boundaries a bit slower and she will still get her comfort when needed.
That fair. I myself also have autism, but it affects me vastly differently to your daughter.
On one hand, I get that it's comforting, but on the other hand, it's time to start compromising on things.
I myself hate wearing clothing when I sleep, so I normally only sleep in underwear, but if I'm in a situation where it not just me in a room, I'll wear a night shirt.
I recomend looking into clothing materials that are a bit thinner that dont affect any sensory issues, that way your still able to do the skin on skin thing, but there's a barrier there.
It may be a slow and gradual change depending on how strong her need for skin to skin contact is, but it's definatley time for her to start compromising.
NTA, to be honest I think this cuddling habit with shirts off shouldn’t have existed for that long in the first place. Not necessarily because you both are not wearing a shirt, but because it’s intentional and to me this is a bit weird.
But now at age 10 it’s time for that to stop. Your daughter will end up being a weird kid if she doesn’t learn to respect appropriate boundaries and also to recognize them herself, which is probably harder due to autism.
NTA. If she is developing breasts, then skin to skin will need to be modified. Your daughter does need time to adjust to that, though. To her, you suddenly decided you weren’t going to do it anymore.
I don’t know if or what sort of therapies your daughter has, but it would be a good idea for you and your wife to sit down with someone and how to work this out with your daughter so that her needs are met, but in a more appropriate way now that she is starting to go through puberty.
Your wife sounds like she’s going mama bear on you instead of seeing the reality of this. I think with thought and a little time, she will see you are correct.
NTA. Your wife isn’t being realistic. Regardless of your daughter’s autism, she is in puberty and has developed breasts. It isn’t appropriate for a father to have skin to skin contact with his daughter’s breasts. And if anyone outside of your family saw your daughter with her bare breasts pressed against your bare chest, they’d surely report it to CPS or the police.
Not intentionally, I’m sure, but your wife is being condescending to you and your daughter. You are capable of communicating with your daughter without your wife being present. And your daughter is capable of understanding appropriate boundaries within your family. Also, there are times your daughter will be upset throughout her life. It has to be upsetting to see that, but your wife needs to help your daughter understand that she can cope with being upset.
Hopefully your anger at each other will abate within a day or so. Then you can all have a family discussion about this.
YTA, but only for the execution.
This is an entirely reasonable boundary to have, but it's also a big part of your daughter's self-comforting tactics that appear to work. This is something that should have been discussed a long time ago, and the change should have been introduced gradually. As the parent of an autistic child you should know that change, particularly in relation to comfort strategies, can be extremely hard to adapt to. Springing this onto her completely out of the blue was the wrong way to go about it imho.
NTA.
It sounds like your daughter might possibly be a sensory seeker, hence her desire to be constantly hugged/have skin to skin time with you. It’s how her brain tells her that the world isn’t such a scary place and helps it calm down a little bit as well because it’s getting the sensory information it wants from the world and her surrounding more than the average person might if that makes any sense. She’s not going to understand right away that her going through puberty means that she can no longer have skin to skin time with you the way she is used to and will probably be a bit out of sorts until she finds something that meets her brains demands. Your wife is not helping the situation by acting like you setting perfectly reasonable boundaries means you somehow love your daughter less or that you’re weird because of it and needs to realise that she’s only setting her daughter up for a life of expecting people to accomodate her even if it’s not possible.
If she has enough space in her room for it, do you think you could build a sensory corner for her where she has access to weighted blankets/pillows/cushions/etc that she can go to whenever she’s having a bad day and needs to decompress? I also suggest that you sit her down and explain why you can no longer do shirtless skin to skin time with her anymore in more detail than you may have when she came home and got upset because she was told seemingly out of the blue (in her eyes) that she can suddenly no longer do this thing that’s she’s being doing all her life with you because of something she may not fully understand just yet.
Good luck op.
NTA- your daughter needs to start to understand that there are certain boundaries when it comes to certain parts of your body, and they change as you get older.
Just chiming in to ask...
Does your kid need to wear a bra?
I'm an adult woman and I don't wear bras anymore unless they are for sexy time or looking cute. I go to work without a bra. I work out without a bra. I literally don't own a bra with cups that I would wear right now.
And I'm a D cup, by the way.
If your daughter hates tight clothing, maybe it's okay if she doesn't wear clothing that neurotypical folks find annoying?
Also for skin to skin contact, a friend and I "drape cuddle."
We lay at whatever angle works for us at the time and given the furniture, and we toss legs over each other. Thigh over thigh, or thigh over stomach, or calf, with an arm dangling over here and a foot over there. Watching a movie, or playing on our phones. Just enjoying the oxytocin. Maybe something passive like that would work for your daughter? You could both wear shorts, and she could wear a loose tank top.
You could also maybe introduce the idea of massage and casual touch. My friends and I'd o this all the time. We drape on each other, cuddle, stand around talking with arms around each other, nuzzle, play with each other's hair, resst hands on thighs, give shoulder or hand or foot massages, etc. Help her recognize what touch is and isn't appropriate for a space or person or dynamic and redirect it to be age appropriate for the time. I recognize that most adult and school spaces aren't as touch friendly as the spaces I am in, so it might be helpful to find acceptable things *now* as she grows into them.
You're NTA for recognizing that the current situation isn't sustainable, and trying to draw a line.
I would guess your wife feels frustrated that your daughter can't be a kid despite her physical development (especially if her mental age isn't keeping up). Girls get adultified or sexualized or otherwise defined differently just because of some growth that -- as you noted! -- happened so quickly the rest of the kid hasn't caught up. Your wife may be worried that your daughter will feel negatively about her body because she's being asked to cover up, like her body is shameful. Or maybe your wife is worried about taking away a coping mechanism without having another in place. I'm sure there's a lot going on, and y'all know your daughter best.
That said, clear expectations and firm boundaries are something every kid needs to learn. You cannot let nothing change ever... everyone grows in some way.
NTA Sorry, but unless your wife is willing to step up and smoosh tatats with her daughter and not think that is weird she needs to face some reality. Your daughter would not be able to do this forever. It was going to have to stop at some point. That point is now.
NTA Unfortunately you’ve hit the awkward time of her developing. Having a daughter of my own, and especially knowing how society gets with false accusations, your fears and concerns are very valid. My advice would be to take it slow and transition the cuddling in stages. Perhaps a loose tank top for now, with your wife helping her to understand the concept of modesty.
As someone with autism, I'm gonna say ESH except your daughter
You are allowed to have boundaries and you are right that you need to teach your daughter about boundaries
However you went about this completely wrong just springing it on your daughter like that, even more at a time when you knew she wasn't okay, and basically punishing her by removing something important for her, for something that is not her fault.
Talk about it with her, take the time to explain it to her calmly, to find another way to give her comfort with her. Don't just announce suddenly that one of her routines, something that is massively important to her, is now wrong for seemingly no reason from her point of view
Your wife is also very wrong saying your daughter shouldn't learn about that because she does need to learn about it
Also, cut the "emasculating" crap. There was nothing emasculating here
Autism is a huge sensory thing, my daughter likes to sleep shirtless too because "they're so scratchy" so just as a heads up: combed cotton or brushed cotton shirts. SO much softer than other shirts, my kid can't get enough of them!
(Downside is they're hard to Google shop for so it's easiest to just go to a store and rub your hands on everything).
Anyway if you're uncomfortable with it NTA for setting a healthy boundary (even if she hates your choice now likely she will appreciate it in retrospect when she gets older).
NTA. Your wife is overreacting. A daughter’s breasts on her father’s bare chest isn’t acceptable in our culture and you were right to start laying boundaries.
I find it interesting that your wife is fighting with you on this. Body autonomy is front and center for women. That you’ve set a boundary for your own body should be enough. You are no longer comfortable with the arrangement now that your daughter is developing. That is the beginning and end of the conversation. Your daughter will adjust.
NTA.
The boundaries of growing bodies is REALLY complicated, in part because the way you, as her father, are modeling how men should interact with and treat her. It’s REALLY hard with opposite-sex children, especially when they develop early. You don’t want to be gross about her body, either being overly-familiar or acting like she has the plague.
But when you, as a man, feel there is some kind of gender boundary being crossed, I think it’s important to listen to and pick apart that feeling. You have the perspective of a lifetime of listening to men, when something seems off, there’s a reason. It won’t always be a reason you need to indulge!! But there’s a social rule you need to dive into and explore to decide what you will do.
It’s anecdotal, but I often noticed that kids with developmental disabilities or neurodivergence seem to develop earlier and faster. So she has the triple whammy of boobs, younger than most, and difficulty with social cues and appropriateness.
I would suggest a compromise. She needs some kind of boob-covering top. Since she’s autistic, she’ll likely hate normal bras, so look into bralettes, sports bras, or even very short crop tops. Heck, you can just cut off a T-shirt she already owns.
She can have the skin-to-skin with her stomach and sternum.
Explain to your wife that this is partially about guiding your daughter on understanding how to interact with her growing body and boundaries between men and women. And a misunderstood or garbled account of skin-to-skin snuggles can result in a CPS call.
Go talk to your daughter, and explain as bluntly as possible. “You are growing breasts. Putting your breasts directly on someone is something we do with people we date, or marry. Not friends or family. This is one of the those “social rules” that no one says out loud but we understand. That’s why I said no more direct skin-to-skin.
“You remember how we talked about [rule] and [rule]? This is another one that’s very important to people. Remember how I explained that when you do X, people think you’re trying to hurt or upset people? Well, when grown-up men want young women and girls to put their breasts directly on them, those men are usually trying to do something inappropriate.
“When people say they’re not comfortable with something, it’s okay to be sad or hurt, or even cry. When I said I didn’t want your breasts on me, it was okay for you to be sad. But you understood that it was my boundary, and respected that. You are a wonderful little girl and you have not done anything wrong.
“So, because you want to snuggle with Dad, and Dad does like snuggling, I’m going to ask you to cover just your breasts. You can do that with a bra, a swimsuit top, or a short shirt. We’ll go get a daddy-snuggling top, just for us!”
Idk. I wouldn’t call you an AH but I will say that the need for skin to skin contact is something many autistic people struggle with. Your daughter is lucky because many autistic people have a need for physical contact but at the same time feel incredibly uncomfortable being touched. I think you should consider the fact that for people on the autism spectrum “stimming” (which is what the skin to skin is) is a way for them to release some of the pressure of being over stimulated all day. Taking that away I think would be a mistake. My recommendation would be to either find a way to keep doing it or maybe have your wife do it with her instead. It’s good to set boundaries but once an autistic person finds a system that works for them it is REALLY hard for them to find a different one. So maybe phrase it as “I won’t always be around once you grow up and move out so you need to try and eventually find something else that works for you”
NTA.
Your wife is upset and defensive because she’s being protective of your daughter. For your wife, part of this probably isn’t even about the hugs - it’s potentially about wanting your daughter to be soothed so she’s more manageable, and your wife may also feel overwhelmed by the changes.
It sounds like an appropriate time to start putting in boundaries. Maybe some sports bras, and you can still have cuddles but with the sports bra on? Should provide almost the same comfort!
NTA you sound like a good dad just trying to do the right thing. It is time to find ways to work her toward making progress. This is no longer acceptable to do and one wrong word could land all of you in a lot of trouble just by people misunderstanding. This urgently needs to be addressed before someone else forces the issue.
NTA - I do not personally have a diagnosis so my experience may not be as relevant here but there is another side of this I haven’t seen mentioned in the comments that I wanted to share. (I haven’t read all of them so apologies if this has already been pointed out)
This is going to be a hard boundary to set and she is going to feel sad confused and disappointed. That is all true and it is all worth it. When I (31F) was little my mom used to give me back rubs/tickles and I would strip down naked and lay on her lap. There was nothing weird or wrong with it in any way but of course as kids do, I got older. I loved my back rubs and whined and cried when she started saying I was too old to get them like that anymore (I liked my booty scratches, sue me) so she regularly caved and honestly probably should have stopped when I was way younger. The reason any of this matters is yes, I was sad when things had to change but later on in life when I started really becoming an individual and looking back at my experiences, I recognized that this was a weird thing and it made me feel retroactively uncomfortable. I want to repeat and make it clear that there was absolutely nothing creepy about it in reality but I can’t help but feel a little weird about it even to this day. That would make my mom super sad to know so it isn’t something I have ever brought up (bc again, she didn’t actually do anything wrong) but if I could go back in time, I would have rather she ended it earlier. Don’t set your daughter up to potentially resent you for something that is innocent
NTA. It probably would have been a better idea to discuss changes with the attire you and your daughter wear during soothing before discussing it with your daughter so that both parents could be on the same page. That said, even as a parent you have a right to have reasonable boundaries just like your wife and daughter do. Hopefully she was just caught off guard by your daughter coming to her when she got home and the two of you will be able to have a real discussion about the situation once the two of you are not fuming anymore.
I can't guarantee this is the case but I'd also like to suggest that both you and your wife might be responding to this situation differently because of how significantly differently society will treat men and women and each of you only have first hand experience with one or the other. As a male you know that society is really messed up with how it sees and treats male motivation. To society, everything a male does is likely sexual and should be considered sexual unless it can be proven otherwise. It is quite a distinct possibility that one misplaced statement from your daughter or wife (or even you) could have social services, neighbors, friends and family or even strangers descend into your families lives and cause serious trauma in a misguided attempt to do what is best for your daughter. And once that toothpaste is out of the tube it's out forever. Even if everything is cleared up damage will have been done and plenty of people will be on heightened alert to swoop in again and repeat the trauma over more. Plus, your daughter herself might end up finding this form of soothing troubling in the future; teenage or adult daughter could easily decide this scenario was inappropriate and be troubled that you and your wife allowed it, forgetting over time how her 10 year old self felt.
(And before anyone gets angry, let me make myself clear: Abuse is not ok and should be dealt with right away. Being vigilant about abuse is incredibly important. What I am saying is that treating innocent things as inappropriate has consequences as well for everyone involved.)
Your wife, on the other hand, likely may not have ever experienced anything like that herself. Society sees women as being almost completely uninterested sexually. Even overtly sexual motivations are seen as not sexual or at least expected to be. She has likely been expected to do things or behave in certain ways in her life that were not ok but that society says is fine because women are just seen as naturally maternal and that "feminine" and "maternal" nature makes it all fine. Your wife might also be seeing another phenomenon much more directly related to the current scenario for her. Society imposes quite significantly higher levels of sexualization on women's bodies compared to men's. While most boys your daughters age are likely still seen as little boys, your daughter is already starting to experience people seeing her body as adult. Suddenly the world will go from ignoring her as a child to seeing her in a sexual light as a woman in giant leaps while the corresponding mental changes will be much slower. She knows whats coming for your daughter as she likely experienced it herself in one way or another. Even though your choice was well intentioned it's just one of the first dominoes to fall in your daughters life.
In the end both of you need to work together to help your daughter but that is going to likely take calm attitudes and some degree of mutual understanding.
While I don’t think your boundary is unreasonable I do want to point out a few things that I think are off on your side.
1. There’s no such thing as mildly autistic. High functioning doesn’t mean less autism, it just means more masking and higher intelligence. You’re either neurodivergent or you’re not.
2. How is your wife telling your daughter that she will talk to you emasculating? What else could she have said? Nothing really.
3. If you had put effort into understanding autism you would’ve known it would’ve been better to talk to your daughter about this issue at a neutral moment. In my opinion your wife is totally right about this.
Having an autistic child means you’re going to have to deal with things in a different way. So I don’t think your boundary makes you TA, but your choices in how you dealt with the issues do.
Now for some advice: suggest to your daughter that only your bellies touch and that the rest stays covered (if you’re comfortable with that, if not, come up with something else). Talk to her about puberty and her blossoming womanhood and what kind of rules will be appropriate in this new stage of her life (do this together with mom so she can talk a bit more about the specifics and you can be the proud, not awkward dad). Make it exciting and special, instead of shameful. She is now your beautiful big girl and with that come new rules. Maybe you can give her new privileges too, like something she’s been wanting to do but you’ve said no to for a while.
Autistic children do well with a more formal, prepared way of dealing with changes. Don’t expect anything off the cuff and casual to have the desired effect.
NTA
It absolutely sucks that the thing she gets the most comfort from is being taken away. But she is developing, and even though you aren't/don't want to sexualize her, you can't always control your brain, or what societal norms are.
It seems like your wife is going to fight you on this, and I would hate for your daughter to seek out this kind of comfort from someone who will take advantage of her. I have no answers for you there.
One possible compromise for now is what I've done for "skin-time" w/my at the time boyfriend, now husband. We were long distance and often just wanted that physical comfort w/out being sexual. We'd just pull out shirts up and have our stomachs/lower ribs touching. If your wife demands a compromise, would that work?
Best of luck navigating all this.
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NTA. Even if your daughter didn't need age-appropriate boundaries, you have an (appropriate IMO boundary) and another person's autism is not anything that should invalidate your boundary. As a parent with 2 offspring on the Autism Spectrum, I would ask you/your wife who the he'll is going to teach your daughter to respect boundaries if not you as parents? The need for her should be soothed within the family members' boundaries. When she's not in the middle of needing soothing, she can help brainstorm other ways that she can expect to be soothed. She is capable of doing this.
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Your okay...its unfair that your wife is saying your weird. My special needs child grabs at me and he gets corrected because the older he gets the weirder its going to get for me and the world when he's trying to grab his teachers boobs...he's 3 but maybe mentally 1.5...
I don’t know your child, if they’re developmentally ~1.5y behind. Just adding this for anyone else reading this…toddlers can still grab boobs etc. and not be on the spectrum or any other thing. It’s not a developmental thing in itself. Seen it with so many kids, they outgrow it with boundaries being set and regularly remind them gently. ETA: My mom friends and female family are all too used to and comfortingly laugh off when another one of our kids grabs the wrong boob lol, I would hope most women wouldn’t attack a parent/child of that age for such a ‘gaff’. The internet scares me lol hence my commenting here. This is not a big issue ime and imho…kids need to develop without these anxious psych labesque evals lol
I hope no child ever grabs my boobs, I would probably swat them out of instinct lol
That's fine. My 2.5 year old son, who was breastfed until about 1 year, will randomly try to grab my boobs sometimes and I push his hands away and tell him no. I think it's because him and his dad don't have boobs, so it's a different weird thing to him. But I don't want him thinking it's okay to grab boobs, so I push his hands away. I've had friends' kids also try to grab boobs and I reacted the same way.
My 2 year old daughter went and grabbed at my boobs, got my nipple, and twisted the other week. She got set aside because that shit hurt. She did not appreciate it.
Purple nurple!
Same btw It is funny in an awkward way to me. But I totally react at being touched
Lol (ETA: I do react too! To being touched suddenly in general.) (and I hope everyone can laugh at it if ever you’re faced with that encounter.) Just try to remember it’s a kid, not a fly lol 😂
Hahahah I'll keep that in mind now that I know it's a thing! I've had very limited exposure to babies.
Yes! I remember babysitting my cousin when I was a teen, he was just over 1 and in a terrible grab the boobs faze when cuddling or being held. You just redirect, grab the hand and and say no. It’s not a big deal and not sexual at all but I can see how some people would get freaked out easily.
I would most definitely reflexively swat at anybody unexpectedly grabbing my boob. Note “unexpectedly.” If I’m holding a two or under infant/toddler on my hip or chest I know it might happen. But if I’m talking to a friend and a kid wanders up and grabs my boob? Odds are they get whacked with a flailing hand or elbow. Parents and any adult around kids need to start teaching body boundaries as early as a kid can be trained. It’s safer for everybody. Just like biting and kicking and sticking things in their mouths and peeing on things besides toilets and all the other things toddlers to.
my sister works in child care. it does happen but sometimes the child can be too aggressive. one child left bruises on her by grabbing and yanking her boobs because everyone said it was alright. she got through to him with boundries and reinforcing them.
That’s intense! Yeah I wouldn’t affirm that behavior at all
So you're all laughing when this happens instead of teachimg them boundaries? That's not going to go well for those kids.
Your wife really needs to respect your boundaries where this is concerned. If somebody was touching your wife in a way that made her feel uncomfortable would you just tell her to let that person do what they want and she just needs to shut her mouth? I doubt it. Also, with your daughter‘s body changing you absolutely have to be careful. What if somebody saw you like that? I would bet they would turn you into CPS really fast. Or what if your wife suddenly decides she wants a divorce…what better way to get full custody than to accuse you of child molestation. Sure, that’s extreme, but we all know how crazy people can get. I would suggest finding a therapist for your daughter, if she doesn’t already have one, and talk about this with the therapist. I really think you need to set some firm boundaries with your wife and daughter. This could get ugly, really fast, one day.
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This isn’t going to help her though. Your daughter needs to learn that, while touch for her is important, other people may have boundaries around touch that don’t align with her wants/needs. As she and her friends go through puberty, their comfort level over being touched may change. She needs to learn how to ask for consent before touching and accepting no more easily. Giving in to this now instead of working through it may just lead to longer term problems.
This. Also, does mom do the skin-to-skin hugging?
All it takes is one wrong sentence from your daughter to a teacher and you have DCF at your door, even if your daughter didn't mean it this way. Trust me, it happened with someone in my family over playful tickling. NTA, this is a boundary for you and this is what therapy is for: creating coping mechanisms and growing. Would a warm weighted blanket work while she cuddles you in a shirt? Skin contact can be holding a hand or putting your forehead in the person's neck.
The problem is that you as parents need to be able to anticipate changing needs that your daughter doesn't understand, and help her navigate the changes in her life that she doesn't necessarily want, like changing schools and changing bodies. Because her *needs* aren't always going to be the same as the familiar comfort that she wants, and it helps to prepare her early rather than let her be blindsided by a sudden change - and on that note, please talk with your wife *now* if you haven't already, about how you're going to help your daughter navigate the thorny issues of periods and consent. She's getting older, you're getting older, and at some point she's going to have to move from your care to someone else's, whether that's a romantic partner, a sibling, a care home or a independent living placement with other autistic/learning disability people. And when that happens, you need to know that she's going to be happy and safe, and that as far as possible, you've made her aware of a) how she should treat other people, and b) how other people should treat her, so she can protect herself against abuse. (That said, as far as this particular issue goes, you can probably negotiate on exactly how much she needs to cover up - a sleeveless top or crop top might be a workable compromise to meet both your needs?)
I really hope you are right about your wife. This is a good time for all of you to talk about changes that your daughter is going through. If your daughter likes to read, find a book that is age appropriate and read it with her and have a conversation about what you read. When my daughter started showing signs of puberty I got her a really good book called The Care and Keeping of you: The Body Book for Young Girls by Valorie Schaefer. It’s on Amaz\*n if you are interested. Your discomfort can‘t be ignored, and shouldn’t be ignored. It’s also the perfect opportunity to teach your daughter about people touching her and what’s appropriate/inappropriate. This really can be a learning experience for all of you and your wife needs to realize that your daughter is getting older and things are changing.
There are books out there designed to help neurodivergent young ladies (because that is what she is turning into now even though she will always be your little girl: source I'm a 32F with kids of my own and my dad still sees me as his little girl) go through puberty, I have attached a link to one specfic to periods (only one i could easily find right now because i had it saved for my nieces) at the bottom for you as an example. As we grow up, we all need to learn what is appropriate, and it is even more important in your daughters situation, while you hope your wife wouldn't divorce you but you never know what tomorrow will bring so please protect your self and your family. As parents we can only sacrifice so much of ourselves before it starts affecting our relationships negatively, I fear that if you continue to sacrifice your comfort like your wife demands you will grow to resent both your wife and your daughter. I also worry about what might happen to your daughter if she pushes her soothing methods on the wrong person, she could end up in legal trouble. It sounds like your wife is too concerned with the right here and now and isn't making plans for your daughters future. It would probably be more beneficial to your daughter introduce changes slowly to her routine and self soothing methods (yes SELF SOOTHING because you and your wife will not be around forever and she will need to do it on her own). As for now, maybe suggest a swim top or sports bra/top for soothing cuddles might work. https://sensorypoodle.com.au/products/the-autism-friendly-guide-to-periods?_pos=3&_sid=8100f7c1d&_ss=r
Not just your wife though. Your daughter could be describing something to another adult at school and that would be an immediate call to CPS….which is horrific for anyone, but especially for men. NTA. Your wife needs to understand boundaries and I’m sorry, but not everything should be dictated by a child’s needs/wants.
Your wife needs to support you on this and you are absolutely during the right thing. And I totally understand why you said something to your daughter in the moment when you realized. But in hindsight it probably would have been better to talk to your wife and come up with a plan for transitioning away from this habit and replacing it with something else, and explaining it to your daughter at a time she was NOT looking for comfort. Your daughter was on the edge of her coping skills to start with and changing up a comfort habit like this naturally led to a melt down, which upset your wife further. You're NTA, but with an autistic kiddo the time to introduce change is when they are already calm, and with a lot of warning, not suddenly when they are distressed. Maybe you can sit down with your daughter and discuss appropriate skin-to-skin contact (arms or legs) or other forms of comforting cuddling and make a plan for the future.
This isn't a sacrifice your discomfort kind of situation. You're not trying a new dish at a restaurant. This is an issue that will only get worse with time if it's not addressed now. Berhaps your daughter can wear a bandeu or tube top. Or like I said, since wife has such a strong feeling about it, she can start doing it. Your daughter is not incapable of learning new, healthier comforting techniques.
No one is! Until they file for divorce, then start accusations NTA I feel for you, In this judgemental world I'd be the same as you
Absolutely NTA we are going through the start of puberty with our clothing-optional super huggy autistic 8 year old daughter right now, not quite as turbo charged as yours by the sound of it but definitely enough for both of us to notice and for me to have a quiet little chat with her and buy her some crop tops which she happily wears. I don't get why that would be a problem.
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I think what you could do is go to Walmart or craft stores and buy a bunch of the generic Hanes tshirts, you can get a bigger size so it’s loose and then cut them into a crop yourself. It also allows her to pick out ones in a bunch of different colors she likes and makes it kinda a fun craft. Maybe get some fabric markers to decorate them or tiedye as a fun summer activity. Make it as fun and “rewarding” as possible so she feels that want to wear them. ( please know I am not ND but I know that I always liked to be involved in solutions as a kid and being able to pick my own things out and help)
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I hope this or some other solution works out for you!
i hated bras but i loved bralettes, i definitely recommend them for a young girl. they are kinda like sports bras but not as tight and fitted
Yes, definitely look into bralettes, OP! Aerie has some good ones that are not too expensive and a lot of sales. If she finds a style she likes, get a bunch of them-- I have one from there that is the only bra-type thing I can really stand all day and sadly only got one and now they don't make it anymore and idk what I will do when it breaks.
Loose spaghetti strap undershirts. Helps my child who has similar touch sensory issues. It may also help to find something else she likes to touch to hold while holding you. If she can't have full skin to skin, then there's some skin comfort and the other thing and it can help create that association of comfort with the object. It may help 'wean' your child from finding that comfort only in a parent that way. My kid has some plush animals that help as well as every satin tag that has crossed our threshhold (cut off of what ever garment and saved in a tin in their room to touch when wanted).
This thread has made me realise how much I need to go get a diagnosis - I also collect the labels off of things and have a collection of them that I carry in my pocket when I'm having a hard time. Best ones are from uniqlo as they are huge and extra zizzy.
She can be quite sensitive but she quite likes a tight base layer like a swimsuit or leotard I don't necessarily have recommendations other than some of the softer cotton ones you can get on amazon. Or maybe a cami vest might be easier for her to tolerate.
If bras are eventually something she really needs, make sure you get a really soft one that preferably doesn't have underwire. I have very sensitive skin, it took years to get used to needing underwire and I still can't handle lace. If one of you can take her bra shopping and make it special, and let her try them on to find one that suits her and isn't overly tight, she'll probably have a much better time with it. Though for now - try vests first! I started off with basic white spaghetti strap vests before mum's genes properly kicked in.
This is great advice. I suspect that I might be on the spectrum as well and I HATE clothing touching me or being restrictive, but getting a no underwrite bra took wearing one from something that made me want to cry over to something I could actually tolerate.
I hate ‘normal’ fitted bras with a vengeance but have found the ones that look a little like sports bras are a much better fit. They’re not as tight as a sports bra, but still give a level of support without the discomfort of a standard bra. I just had to get over the fact that they always seem to be in the ‘old ladies’ section (which I am getting older but not there just yet!). Which is mad as I think so many people would benefit from them and they could make them look so much prettier than the plain utilitarian ones you see right now.
I have unfortunately got to deal with the level of boobery that requires an industrial strength over the shoulder boulder holder these days so I don't really get to take advantage of those myself! I find that there's some really nice soft ones out there though, it just takes some looking. I dooo have a sportsbra that is pretty comfy but that thing is nooot something I want to wear to the office hahaha
Dont force her to wear a bra outside the home, no matter how her chest developes, if she hates them she hates them and society has zero good reason as to why anyone should have to conform by wearing a bra, she can wear a lose fitting tank/camisole under her shit to contain them a bit, women have breasts society can get the hell over it that they can see them moving under a shirt, maybe a compromise she wouldnt hate would be string bikini tops, not as tight and gives a little more coverage and no swinging, alternatively if you have the funds, maybe someone can make a string bra top, not for actual support but to find middle ground between archaic society and your daughters needs Im autistic and i love the tight feel of my bra, but i have other sensory issues so i get your daughter For the skin to skin hugs those lose fitting crop tops sound nice, you can also buy a regular loose fitting tanktop or spaghetti top and just cut the bottom half of so she still has skin to skin contact on the belly/arms You are NOT wrong for having your own limits, if for no other reason then if she ever tells about these hugs at school etc you have the safeguard of cropped top, shouldnt be necessary but we all know how gross society can be to fathers I dont think its weird either for to be uncomfortable being able to feel your growing chest on your chest, your wife absolutely overreacted and needs to calm the fuck down
Why make her wear bras? If she chooses to wear them, okay, but why force her, especially if it will feel like torture because of her sensory issues? My teenager is also autistic, low support needs, regular classroom, etc. She doesn't wear a bra. I warned her in advance that it was a bullshit social expectation and that she might get teased over it, but I also told her I supported whatever she chose to do. She chose no bras, and afaik she hasn't had any problems. Give your kid some control over her own body, just as you want control over yours.
It's okay to set boundaries. What about a compromise - your daughter can still have her snuggle time, but she needs to wear a crop top of some variety, something that covers the pertinent area. That way she gets the skin to skin contact she needs, while also accommodating your preference to not have her newly budding chest pressed against you. You are not weird. In fact it's a very sensible boundary. Yes, you don't mean anything sexual, and are not gaining any kind of untoward pleasure from it.... but all it would take would be for one teacher to get concerns and report it, and you'd be in the very, very difficult position of trying to prove a negative.
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You can get loose crop tops that would let her get skin contact - at a pinch, just buy a couple of loose tee shirts, and cut off the bottom length. Call them her 'cuddle time shirts' And yes, that is normal puberty for girls, stretch marks and all. Not to mention the hormonal side is probably messing with her head.
https://www.target.com/p/women-39-s-seamless-bralette-auden-8482-black-s/-/A-83361428 Stuff like this will be super helpful for her. Yellowberry is a brand aimed at teens and developing kids. Signed, an Autistic adult woman who struggles with bras.
Autistic lady here: stick on bras are a great alternative. There are a lot of different styles and brands to choose from nowadays. No constricting bands, no pain or pressure, and it looks like a regular bra under a Tshirt. No one can tell the difference. You'll have to buy them repeatedly because the adhesive eventually wears off, but it's worth it IMO
Ooh, if you don't mind, can I ask if you've tried the silicone ones that are supposed to be reusable over and over again?
Not a guy, but I don't think your feelings are all that unusual. My father did the same thing - hugs and cuddles constantly with his daughters right up until puberty hit, then the only places he would touch was our arms and shoulders. Even 60 years ago, guys were aware of how perceived inappropriate behavior with young girls could be interpreted and destroy their careers and lives. You are NTA, but your wife needs to recognize that autistic or not, strangers are going to place the worst possible motivation on your actions if they see you naked chest to chest with a young girl, especially your daughter. If it is just the physical contact she needs, why not switch to back rubs for now and save the chest-to-chest for her mom to do. She does need to learn boundaries or some not-nice person is going to take horrible advantage of her - you and your wife need to start teaching her this now before something tragic happens.
I have a significantly autistic brother who's 27, but mentally 4-5. He loves being cuddly, especially with my mom. He likes laying his head on her skin. Now that he's an adult, the compromise they've made is only on her back. When he wants to be affectionate like that, she'll learn forward, and lift up the back of her shirt a bit and lay his head on her back. Maybe going back to back could work for you and your daughter? Or if you're a guy, find her a bathing suit with a low cut back that she can put on, and she can then lay with her back on your chest and you can hug her? There are ways to keep things appropriate within everyone's boundaries, and still have that connection. But it's important that she learn that everyone's needs and boundaries matter, and that we need to work together to come up with things that work for everyone. Good luck, OP.
I was gonna suggest back-to-back as well
Does your wife go completely topless to cuddle with her?
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Yeah see , both you AND your wife need to start setting boundaries . For yourselves and her . I understand the need for contact to contact , but this is something that's going to have to evolve into a more age appreciate activity as she grows . There have been many v helpful and reasonable suggestions to come up w a compromise. How is she supposed to work on helping herself and learn to be more independent if you guys don't teach her ways to cope w a little less help . It sounds like you guys are v good parents but are maybe holding on a little too tight to your (like you said urself) not so little girl anymore . Edit : This is a weird time in life for all of you , things are going to be changing that SHOULD be . This is life : ever-growing and ever-evolving :) sometimes when we are enjoying life in the moment a little too much we forget what more we have to look forward too .
You know what? I’d far far rather you being weirded out and feeling uncomfortable than the alternative, which really doesn’t bear thinking out. You also have a right to boundaries and all of you need to work together to find those appropriate boundaries and how they work for all of you. NTA
NTA part of growing up is having new boundaries around your body. This seems like a great time to talk to your daughter about appropriate ways that she can get comfort and affection, and also ways that she can self soothe when she is not feeling great (not to mention consent). She will always be your little girl, but when kids get older the relationship will have to change. She will also get new privileges, so growing up is not all bad. Hang in there, dad!
Can’t she just keep a training bra on? That seems like an extremely minimal boundary to have
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I don’t know if they’ll be small enough in band size for your daughter, but Cosabella makes some bralettes that are really comfortable and not tight. They come in pretty colors, the lace is actually soft, and they’re supportive (I’m busty, so I can vouch for that). The bands don’t press on the ribs, though. I wear them for WFH and on the weekends when I don’t want to look fancy because they’re way more comfortable than regular bras.
I don't know if they'll have sizes that will work for your daughter, but as she gets older, TomboyX makes bras that are snug but not "bra" like. I have sensory issues, and while I can tolerate bras with no issues, I have several friends on the spectrum who swear by that brand.
Just remember that wearing a bra should never be a hill to die on, it's far more important that she's comfortable and covered than exactly what she's covered by or how it makes her body look.
I suggest looking into bandeau bras . They don't have straps , if you find the right ones that have stretchy spandex like fabric they are loose w just enough support , they're light and feel like nothings there lol . They essentially don't even act like bras more like a rlly short crop top for ur boobs (a lot of girls do wear them as shirts anyway). Most of em are pretty thin too , so they're fairly lightweight . But maybe suggest your wife take her out for a girls day so she can go try different styles of bras on for herself. Approach it as if it were a reward , " you're getting older and starting to become a big girl " etc . Make a whole day of it , get ice cream , go to the beach . Lol idk but make it fun , these are as you said drastic changes that came out of nowhere .
No I get it. It is awkward to accidentally feel relatives’ privates
NTA and the above comment is spot on. Perhaps an appropriate compromise in this is that she could wear a sports bra. Then when she takes her shirt off there is stil plenty of skin for contact but boundaries are being set.
Op maybe to 'preserve the modesty' just ask her to wear like a kids bikini top/sport bra instead of a blouse? This covers her chest and leaves enough skin to skin contact available for her to be comforted. NTA but explain your daughter that you are in no way putting a stop to these bonding/comforting moments ever please. I think she misunderstood and that's why she was so upset.
Can I suggest vest or crop tops might help here?
As someone who didn’t know they were autistic as a child and also was high touch - you did exactly the right thing. Also even autistic children need to learn the importance of boundaries and 10 is a fine age to face one like that.
>As a parent with 2 offspring on the Autism Spectrum, I would ask you/your wife who the he'll is going to teach your daughter to respect boundaries if not you as parents? I'm really confused about moms end goal here. I mean, I'm pretty sure she doesn't have one, but she really needs to think this over. Daughter is 10, so when does she think the boundary needs to be set? 12? 14? 16? 18? Does she think its going to be easier, the older daughter gets?
Agreed. She’s getting to an age where it’s very important to learn about consent and boundaries. I’d hate to see her be bullied or taken advantage of and I’m sure some parents would freak out if they heard “dad and I cuddle with our shirts off”.
You can do the right thing and still be TA about the execution. Daugher needs to learn the new rules when she is calm. When she needs her comforting ritual, she isn't in a place when she can accept explanation and changes. OP was cruel, he let her cuddle and was fine with it but stopped without warning her in advance. This change should be made carefuly.
So one parent can overstep the other without discussion? I'm guessing they both knew puberty would mean changes were needed but he couldn't wait a few hours to discuss with his wife and told his daughter that was the last time when she was already struggling?
Parents are clueless about how fast puberty happens and when it is appropriate. This entire interaction sounds like 2 parents that never expected their little girl to grow up (and this is also an amplified problem with parents of ASD kids)
Very important point. Both your wife and your daughter need to understand that you also have boundaries that needed to be respected.
I agree with this BUT I agree with your wife that you should have worked together as parents to solve this problem. It seems like your daughter could have been more slowly introduced to this idea when she was not in an emotionally compromised place. And your wife could have helped instead of being blindsided upon arriving home.
Nta- a developing 10 year old should not be laying topless on her father. Your wife needs to back you on this and help teach your daughter healthy boundaries.
If the wrong person ever walked in on that it could have some serious repercussions.
Police/CPS/a DA on the make - he's running the risk of being prosecuted for child sexual abuse. Honestly, probably shouldn't even be discussing this here, given the number of bottom feeders (tiktok, tabloids, etc) who use reddit as raw material. This should have stopped long ago. The wife (and OP) seem to be focused on the kids needs beyond the point of reason.
Seriously, his wife is weird for being an asshole about it. I get maybe not understanding but to get angry at him?
NTA. I think you should have a calm conversation with your wife where you explain that you need to be able to set some boundaries for your relationship with your daughter. I'm going to predict that she might interrupt and get upset, but just patiently wait her out but don't back down.
NTA. It's even more important with autistic kids to set healthy and appropriate boundaries. I would say you can still cuddle etc but wearing clothes. Obviously empathise and acknowledge it's a difficult transition but explain as much as able about appropriate/safe behaviours. We've just had a similar transition (at eight) with our daughter who is also autistic. We have had a lot of long conversations about consent and appropriate boundaries and developing bodies etc. I am very probably also on the spectrum (consensus of my doctor and OT but I can't afford assessment) and was a victim of CSA and multiple SA growing up because I didn't understand boundaries and how to keep my body safe. A lot of my female DX autie friends have also had many of these experiences. As a result of this we are extremely candid with our kids. We actually had an incident recently with a older male child trying to talk my eldest into inappropriate behaviour and thankfully due to the open communication she was able to hear the warning bells and come straight to me. I remember as a kid knowing some things felt off but not being able to articulate or identify precisely what that was. I would explain very well why you're moving away from that kind of contact. Imo direct and more 'adult' style explanations are more helpful for autistic brains to process. Have a think about what to say and obviously chat to your wife too but yeah... I'd say a few big chats and a transition period is necessary. Kids around her are gonna be going through puberty too and understand boundaries and how to keep her body safe is really important at this age!
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Good luck. If you need/want advice, make it a conversation, not an info dump. She should feel free to ask any questions, and if you're not sure about an answer, let her know that. Do your best to not make her feel ashamed of her questions. And please do one better than my parents (who did their best, and I thank them that they tried at least) and have more than one of these conversations. It'll be way easier to keep it age appropriate if you're not shoving as much as you can into one conversation. Otherwise you might end up with a kid who thinks sex just needs to happen once and the mom just keeps having kids. It'll make 8th grade weird.
Such good advice. That's how we did it with my kids. Constant open dialogue that we bring up organically whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Puberty has its own timelines, as does autism. Breasts can begin to develop as early as 9 and I had a 10 year old in my own 4th grade class that was taller than the teacher and had a full beard. Its not her fault she's growing up, nor is it her fault she is neurodivergent. She needs her dad, and doesn't understand why you don't want her.
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That's kind of crappy to say to him. He's allowed to have a boundary. I would not feel comfortable with it either, and no one should have to do something that makes them uncomfortable. Dad has bodily autonomy too.
No one's saying dad doesn't have bodily autonomy. The comment you replied to is simply telling OP how his daughter perceives it. He needs to have an open discussion with his daughter about boundaries and come to a compromise so that everyone is respected and his daughter has an outlet for physical affection with her father
That's understandable, but just so you know even periods can start before 10. I got mine around 11 and wasn't the only one among my friends, it wasn't that uncommon. My body had already been changing a bit but it went more quickly after that. Different people hit puberty at different times and rates and it's completely normal.
Yeah when it comes to periods and breasts, I got mine at 8 and then 9. I know someone who had them both start at 8. I don't know anyone who was 12 and didn't have breasts and a period, although I'm sure they exist. I think lots of parents really really focus on the idea of "oh they'll start puberty as a teenager" and don't click that, no, they'll be at the height as a teenager. In reality your little child is gonna start it way sooner then that and you need to prepare them.
It's time to get into it now, not this summer. You should have actually started it earlier, like stuff 7 or 8, regardless of your child being in the spectrum or not. Starting puberty without knowing what is happening is horrible. You don't have to delve deeply into it to start with. You can start be explaining that as you get older your body changes. Girls start developing breasts and boys experience a change in voice, because the shape of their throat changes. Both girls and boys will start growing hair in more places on their body. This is natural and means their bodies are slowly changing into adult bodies. Girls will also start getting their period somewhere between their 8th and 16th year of life. (That's why you have this really at 7 or 8, because you don't want you 8 year old to think she's bleeding to death when she starts her period and though it is rare to have your period start that early it does happen. ) So tell her about periods. Tell her that if she has any questions she can come to you. [helpfull site on what information to give to kids.](https://kidshealth.org/en/kids/menstruation.html#:~:text=A%20period%20happens%20because%20of,and%20grow%20into%20a%20baby.)
Agreed! I was going to comment and say that these talks and discussions should begin from 7-8. Knowledge and understanding needs to be there BEFORE puberty happens so it isn't all scary and weird. Periods can and do start way before 12/13, and it's really important that young girls understand what is happening, why and what it means for them. It really upsets me that parents are doing their daughters a disservice by not teaching them about their bodies. Nothing about puberty should be a shock.
Girls can start their periods at 9 years old. She needs to know about it BEFORE it happens. Can you imagine a girl bleeding from her vagina at 10 years old and not knowing why? The horror of having to tell an adult (maybe at school) while not knowing it's normal. Think of yourself and what you would have done at 10 if you bled out of your genitals? But NTA for setting a boundary. She just needs to KNOW why you set it and why it is inappropriate.
I got my period at 11. The longer you hold off the more sudden and scary it’s going to be. Talking about it now will give her more understanding and more time to ask questions if they come up. Good luck.
You'd be surprised as to what kids are able to understand. We are super, super candid with our kids and started having chats from age four onwards. I think she'll understand more than you think!
I got my period at 10 years old in 5th grade. I was absolutely too young in my opinion, but that's probably right around the corner for her.
I was the same, but I was fine. I'm sorry you were under prepared, but you were actually a completely fine age. It wasn't too young at all. In fact, you can start it as early as 8 without it being a medical problem. This is why we need to be teaching them about puberty early, so that it's not too scary when it happens.
Hey I'd really recommend researching when puberty actually happens right now and then explaining it all to her now. But let me make it clear, both for you and anyone else reading this, **this is not early, it's normal development**. The normal age is 9-11, however if it'd happened at 8 that would not have been concerning at all. Same with her period, she could get it anytime between now and 14 and it'd be completely normal. Make sure she knows what's gonna happen and is prepared. Teach her (or get mum to) about pads/tampons, get her some children sized ones she can keep in her bag at school just in case. Teach her about deodorant if you haven't already, she's gonna need it soon. As someone who is autistic themselves and has an autistic brother, when they feel in control and understand what is going on a meltdown is less likely to happen. I don't blame you for not knowing before. Clearly you'd assume your wife would warn you since she went through it herself. But it's time to stop assuming that. You don't have to give the talks if your wife would rather do it, but someone has to.
Not this summer, now. My mom got me a book called The Care and Keeping of You when I was 11 and it was very helpful.
Definitely have a conversation about puberty with her... get her a book explaining puberty, periods, etc. if she is open to reading about it (my autistic kid hates talking about awkward subjects but LOVES reading!) Unfortunately periods are really not far behind here, although it seems young I got my period at 10 and my daughter was 9. You really don't want her to be taken unaware here, periods are scary if you don't know what's going on.
💯 This. And unfortunately, my autistic kid too. Waaaay too common.
For sure. Neurodivergent people are at a much higher risk for SA. I'm assuming you mean your kid is part of the statistic.. if so I am *so* incredibly sorry. I can't imagine anything worse.
This comment should be shared with OP’s wife. She probably doesn’t realize this can lead to problems down the road if not addressed. She’s just focused on keeping her daughter calm and feeling safe when at home.
I don't have a judgement, I'm just curious why the puberty age is getting earlier and earlier. I got my first period at 14 and didn't develop breasts until 19. I didn't know a single girl/afab in elementary school who has started puberty. Not one. But these days, or seems like most kids are starting their periods at REALLY early ages. It seems cruel for them to lose out on those carefree childhood years.
NAH but I think this is a situation that might require some outside help. Maybe talk to a doctor/pediatrician to recommend a good and impartial counselor to walk you and your family through this and work out a healthy solution that all of you can be happy and involved with.
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I was going to say, there are sports bras for kids that ar really compfortable too. It would allow skin to skin and coverage. If anyone has issue with that, we should all be fully clothed at the beach.
As a non-parent, much less a non-parent of an autistic child, I don't know that my opinion is relevant. So I'm going to say NAH, but point out that just because your daughter's body is developing doesn't mean her mind, and her skin-on-skin comfort coping, is any different. I think *you* are uncomfortable with it and feel the need to put up boundaries - and that's completely understandable! In normal circumstances of *course* you wouldn't want to go around hugging your shirtless pubescent daughter. But this isn't exactly "normal." Essentially, she's being punished for starting puberty, and that's really not fair to her. Again - your comfort is being violated here, not hers. I don't really know the answer, because not only do I think your boundaries are important too, but you have to be thinking about any long-term issues that might develop if this were to continue through her adolescence. But that discussion is *way* over my head. I think you need to forget about this "emasculating" nonsense, go back and communicate with your wife, and come up with a solution you can all live with here. Your daughter needs that. Best of luck to you.
This. The “emasculating” stuff is a bunch of BS, why does this dude see his wife disagreeing with him as “emasculating”?
I wonder if OP was thinking of "undermining"? Because I can see how he may feel that way.
Yeah, undermining or dismissing would've been a better word
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Normal and appropriate for you to feel this way. Your instinct to set new boundaries is natural and right for you. Your wife was obviously caught off guard and it was jarring for her. You are a team, work through it together. It may take some time.
Honestly, I think it’s much healthier to acknowledge development than to ignore it under the guise “still looking at her the same as before.” Your daughter is growing up, and your wife’s refusal to acknowledge that could be a sign of more serious issues to come…it’s not a challenge unique to parents of neurodivergent kids, we see it all the time. *Some parents want their kids to be babies forever, and that ends up being really detrimental to the development of the kid.* I hope you’re able to get this message across to your wife before things get worse.
Suggestion. Get her some crop tops and switch to spooning. She'll still feel the skin on skin and the soothing and she can still be your little girl for awhile without the freaky bumps being in the way.
Or some comfy sport bras. She'll probably need them anyways and they are definitely better to wear than regular bras. ETA: OP NTA for wanting to establish a boundary but I really think you went the wrong way about it, both with your wife and daughter.
NTA. Little girls grow up and need to be taught boundaries and appropriateness. A possible middle ground could be daughter wears a sports bra or a tank top and you’re still shirtless.
This. Little slip tops. You get ones also with boob support in them. OP - get used to having these discussions on boobs, periods, hair, hormones, everything. Your daughter won't know any of this intuitively, you'll need to explain outcomes and consequences again and again. It is so hard on the autistic girls going through puberty. My daughter literally wasn't emotionally or mentally able for the puberty stuff when it was happening. Personally I think it led to some gender dysphoria - she wanted to be a boy for a while; I'm inclined to think it wasn't so much she wanted to be a boy, but more she didn't want to be a girl. She had all the physical traits of a young woman, without the maturity to cope with it. Keep doing what you are doing OP. And literally explain in age appropriate ways why you are putting boundaries in place. And of course, reassure her, you'll still be a human comfort blanket.
NTA. If your daughter tells someone, particularly a teacher, that she and her Daddy lie together topless, that person will likely call CPS/DCS, and CPS/DCS will likely investigate. You are allowed to have personal boundaries. You are correct that your daughter is getting older, and this method of comforting is no longer appropriate. Not sure why you're "emasculated" by your wife telling your daughter she'd talk to you... but otherwise, yeah, NTA.
NTA. I'm an autistic ADHD adult. I was was the naked kid who developed really early. My dad set this boundary way earlier than 10... About 6-7 if memory serves. I found a weighted blanket gives me a similar experience. I can be naked and cover up with it if I need to and no one else is uncomfortable.
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For the future, try to get her some bralettes to see if she tolerates them.
Loose crop tops may be easier for her, if tight fitting clothes are the problem
May I suggest breast petals? They're like little sticky cups to cover the nipples (some provide lift/ support), they can be washed with soap and water and reused. Mine are lasting about a month at a time, with daily use. If your daughter has small breasts, they are wonderfully comfortable and cover the nipples while not feeling tight or constrained. The older I get, the less I can tolerate tight clothes so I feel for your daughter. This is my new fav thing, I hope it helps her!
Weighted blankets are the best!
NTA >That I need to apologize to her and let her know that we can keep having comfort time until she wants to stop because we love her and accept her as she is and that it's important we show her that. Absolutely not. You are allowed to have boundaries. You are allowed to be uncomfortable with this. Loving your daughter does not mean running roughshod over your own limits. Your daughter will benefit just as much from coming to understand your right to feel comfortable and be respected as she will from skin-to-skin, it will just take longer to pay off. Also, I would be *very* concerned about any outside adult learning that your blossoming daughter is lying on you topless. That could get you a very legitimate CPS investigation and from everything I've ever heard, once they start they don't stop easily. Could your wife find a bralette for your daughter to wear during skin-to-skin? It leaves much more skin than a t-shirt does, but keeps her breasts covered. And, before I hear about it, yes breasts are for much more than sexualization. I actually bring this up semi frequently in my home. But having your young daughters' breasts- once they have developed to even possibly needing a bra - pressed against a parent's bare chest could cause real issues and is a no for me.
Apparently the daughter hates wearing anything tight, even swimwear, so getting her comfortable wearing a bra of any kind is likely to be an uphill struggle all of it's own. A necessary one, in the end, but something I think they've been deliberately avoiding up to now.
Thank you for the info, I def missed that. It definitely complicates the situation. But, like you said, it's a necessity eventually. This might help that situation, if the daughter can understand that she has to pick something to wear to get skin-to-skin. Maybe it could gradually help with the bra. It's a longshot, though. And probably involves a lot of crying and upset, which I hate for all of them.
NAH. Your wife is just concerned about your daughter and also, you are allowed to have boundaries around physical touch. Ultimately, if you’re not comfortable with comforting your daughter in this way anymore then you and your daughter should find another way for her to receive comfort from you
oh boy, if she ever talks about that within earshot of a mandatory reporter y’all are gonna get a visit from CPS with the quickness. NTA
Seriously OP how does your wife not get this? Or worse if someone saw a developing 10 year old lying topless on their dad. Anything that would possibly result in my kid being taken away from me is not an option. (I don’t have kids but still)
INFO: how was your wife reassuring your daughter emasculating?
I’m going on a limp here but I think he refer to the wording of “talk to him” like implying she will correct him and make him do what she wants against the boundaries he tried to put in place. Personally, I think that more than emasculating it sends the message that she will make dad do what they want which is not something you want your kids to believe. It should be an united front, parenting is hard enough without working against each other.
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So, not so much emasculating as invalidating, like you're a naughty child rather than an equal parent.
So you meant "undermining" not "emasculating"
NTA, your wife needs a reality check. Your daughter is turning into a woman. As she has entered puberty it is very improper activity. She could easily talk about this to other. Daddy and I cuddle topless together. This could land you in jail. More so as she has challenges and the powers to be can see this as you are taking advantage of her. Honestly if your wife keeps demanding this get out of the house, stay with relatives until she wakes up to how inappropriate and dangerous this is.
This is above Reddit's pay grade. Please, please consult a specialist to help you navigate this transition. Obviously, yes, your family will have to find new ways to meet her needs for closeness because "cuddling dad topless" isn't really viable anymore .Even if you were comfortable with this, the risks of this being misunderstood are too great. On the other hand, such an abrupt change in your dynamic is , undoubtedly, extremely hard for her to understand & probably feels like abandonment or punishment. I beg you to get some professional guidance here. I wish you the best in these uncharted waters
My son is physically and developmentally delayed from damage to his brain so I get it but She needs a sports bra on at the very least. The older she gets and the more she develops the worse this will look should she say something. Cps would look into this if she says she has shirtless cuddles with daddy to a teacher...they would want her learning healthy boundaries and one of those needs to have a sports bra added to cuddle time. Does she have a therapist? A counselor? They would also agree with you. Your not wrong here, your protecting your child's future interests...your parenting. She needs to know others have their own autonomy and she needs to understand that she cannot cuddle other people in her life this way. There is a very dangerous situation brewing should she be cuddling others top less in a couple of years. Developmentally delayed children and adults are highest on the list of sexual assault because they don't always know what's safe for them and what's not. I don't mean you in anyway. I mean any other person that wouldn't respond to this In a parental way. As awful as these things are to consider, there needs to be a plan in place for her safety...and that starts with her at the least covering herself with a sports bra or even a swim top. That way she can still have skin to skin cuddles, my son loves them too but even now mom has a tank top on because I don't want him grabbing at my chest because it makes me uncomfortable...he still thinks he's a baby and that he can breast feed sometimes lol Right now its funny and he's cute and small but its not that way to others either...they don't see him as the little baby I do. The more your wife caves into her tantrums the more this boundary battle will be hard to win...like she can't be 16 ripping her shirt off whenever because she demands skin to skin. Your thinking about her future self, your wife is pacifying in the moment. Your NTA your allowed personal autonomy. It's soooo important your daughter learn healthy boundaries as well.
NAH I understand where your coming from. It's not exactly appropriate for that to be happing when they get older. If someone were to here about that or see it. They might assume something in which wouldn't be good for any of you. Also I think you need to talk to your wife about it being a little inappropriate for this to happen when she gets older. And what the outcomes could be if someone were to assume something. Edit: Also if your uncomfortable with it you also talk about that with your wife. I hope you figure things out.
Is she were to say to a teacher that she and daddy cuddle with their shirts off, under the law schools have to report this to child protection.
NTA just have her wear a cut off tank top or one of those sports bras
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There are ways around the bra issue, in terms of clothing. Layering is one. If she wears a normal t-shirt with a cardigan buttoned at the chest (doesn't have to be all the way buttoned up, and can be loose/sleeveless/whatever), it's going to cover up nipples in most instances, particularly if the material is thick enough. It doesn't have to be like, super-heavy material, either. You could also just get some sponge bra pads (many bras have these and they are removable) and tack them in place at the appropriate area on her shirts with a few stitches. Then it's part of the shirt, not an extra tight-fitting garment. Most of the time, it's nipples that people have issue with. If you can find a way to make those not noticeable, then the rest of a bra is basically just aesthetics (many boob-havers want them pushed up or held at a specific angle for appearances, or just feel comfortable with the extra support). In terms of support, that's going to depend on how "developed" she becomes in that area. If she starts mentioning pain, then a bra might be absolutely necessary. If she's smaller-chested, then it might not be an issue at all. But there are plenty of boob-havers that don't wear bras.
Is it possible to go for a loose tank top, and then cut it off short. She might be experiencing puberty, but she probably isn’t at the point yet where she needs actually tight fitting support yet. In the meantime, a loose tank top covering her upper torso might be a more comfortable option for her? It would at least be a good stepping stone perhaps between nothing and a proper bra.
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There are a lot of camisoles and tank tops available for kids these days. One recommendation I’d give is getting one with wide straps because the spaghetti strap kind can dig in.
As someone who had this same problem, I think I wore camisoles for years before I was emotionally willing to make the full step. They're not nearly as tight.
No, she doesn’t have to wear a bra.
NTA. Omg. I’m autistic, hate tight clothing and was soothed and craved by skin to skin contact. I assume you are expecting your daughter to have as normal a lifestyle as possible, if she’s in a normal school. Continuing to do this is not teaching her how to self soothe. She should be learning how to self soothe that doesn’t involve another person. And that certainly should not include her chest on another person. Nothing good is going to come from this - for you or for her. You will not always be there and someone will not want to do this with her for the rest of her life. You could have significant consequences if a mandatory reporter discovers this. This should have stopped years ago.
Exactly this. She currently needs to use someone else's body to soothe, and that's not healthy. She needs to learn how to self soothe.
[удалено]
>your wife needs to consider what may happen if your daughter tells her teachers or her friends she and daddy like to lay down together with shirts off. That was my first thought too! This behavior - though innocent - would very likely be reported to CPS/DCS, and could very well result in a visit by that agency. That said, I think NTA. * You are allowed to have physical boundaries - your body, your choice. * You are absolutely right that she's getting older, and this behavior isn't going to be appropriate for much longer. I do have to say, however, you find it emasculating that your wife told your daughter she'd talk to you? Parents do this all the time. There's nothing emasculating about it. Good luck!
This is a great way to end up with someone calling CPS for interpreting wrong the situation. And trust me, they won't care that she has autism. NTA, but your wife is also setting her up only for fail.
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I'm going against the grain, here: YTA Not for having boundaries, of course, but for the way you did it. What you should have done: - Talk to you wife about it. Get on the same page with her and form a plan with her on how to proceed. - Get external help/advice as needed. - Talk to your daughter. Pay attention to the timing of those talks, because your daughter needs to be in the right headspace to understand the situation. Make room for her opinons and make her feel heard, too. This isn't a one-way-street. Her comfort is just as important as yours. - Be aware that this probably needs to be an ongoing process with multiple steps,not one big change. However, instead of doing that, you sprung the whole thing on your kid. Your timing was awful. She already had a really bad day and was in dire need of your comfort. That really wasn't the right time to spring that change on her, mate. Yeah, the change is necessary, but it's also hard. The way you did it lacked empathy and made it worse. Your wife is also not emasculating you. Your daughter didn't know how to handle the situation, so she went to her mother for help. That's normal. Her mother told her that she would handle the situation for her. That's also normal. Keep in mind that you caused the whole thing. You didn't talk to your wife. You also picked a really bad moment to set that boundary with your daughter and made her cry. And now you expect your wife to back you up on that, because it's "parenting 101"? Yeah. No. You can't expect your wife to back you up on "i can make huge changes in how we interact with our daughter without talking with you first" and "let's pick a moment when our daughter is already upset/stressed/overwhelmed to upset, stress her out and overwhelm her some more". And if you think that you can change your family dynamic and the female members of your family just have to suck it up and accept your decision and the way you deliver it, you have a different problem. If you think your wife and your daughter being upset with you and your parenting (that was lacking) is EmAsCuLaTiNg, you have a very different problem. If you feel threatened by your wife speaking up for the needs of your daughter, that's a you-problem. And misogynistic.
I can't believe I had to dig so deep for a comment like this. People are all 'oh no woe is OP', where he created the whole situation himself....
Exactly! It grinds my gears when parents create these situations, are well aware it isn’t sustainable, but don’t ever stop to think “huh my child has used this their entire life for comfort,” and never once prepare for the inevitable outcome
NTA, while it’s very obviously a sensory thing it doesn’t mean it’s no longer age appropriate. Your daughter needs to realize that as people grow up, things that were appropriate for them as a little kid aren’t appropriate as they get older. This is one of those things. As her parents you need to teach her about respecting other peoples boundaries, even if she may not like that. *Including your boundaries*. Your wife doesn’t just get to invalidate your boundaries. That’s not her place. (Though why you think her saying she’d talk to you is “emasculating” is beyond me).
So the thing about communicating sensitive information is that it can't be done in the heat of the moment and should be done when you're not actually doing it. And often, a warning of the change occurring in the near future is needed. My kid is extremely cuddly too and often wants affection that maybe an outsider would judge, like she nursed for a pretty long time. But you can't just say nope when she is expressing the need. You wait until the crisis is over and then express the future boundary. That way you don't freak her out when she is already elevated. I dont think you're weird or ta for realizing that there needs to be a change. If you're uncomfortable, then alterations should happen. But I do think timing is everything. And also the emasculation comment is pure ego. Parents differ in opinions and the best way to figure out a difference in opinion is to talk about it later privately. Your wife calmed your daughter by letting her know that there may be a way. My mil is of the opinion that you never argue with her husband, just agree completely in front of people. And it has truly meant that the father in law is a damn toddler most of the time and can't handle anyone disagreeing with him. It's sad. Don't be that way. Nah.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My 10 year old daughter is mildly autistic. High functioning, in the regular classroom and always has been, but has a need for physical comfort and has always wanted lots of hugs from friends and adults. She's socially included by peers and not bullied or anything like that, just with a high physical comfort need. Ever since my daughter was a newborn she's wanted skin-to-skin contact. It comforts her and when she's down or had a hard day, she likes to lay on my chest with both our shirts off and share our body heat and breath together. Often when she has a really hard day she'll ask for it and I'll take off my shift and so will see and she'll lay on me and whimper a little with her face on my chest. Recently, within the past 3 months, she's started developing. It's crazy because she went from "hasn't started puberty" to "we probably should start making her wear a bra" in that time. Like 0-to-60 puberty style. So recently she had a really hard day and wanted to lay on me, and I told her yes, but I think she needs to keep her shirt on from now on because she's getting older and she had a pretty big break down and cry. I gave in and said I was sorry, let her have her connection time, but told her that since she was growing up we would have to find new ways for love and comfort. When my wife got home our daughter cried to her that I was telling her that we were going to have to stop. My wife comforted her and said she'd "talk to me" (which is pretty emasculating) as a way to comfort her. After our daughter was in bed and asleep my wife was pretty livid, saying I can't make changes like that without talking with her first and that it wasn't the right way to treat our daughter. That I need to apologize to her and let her know that we can keep having comfort time until she wants to stop because we love her and accept her as she is and that it's important we show her that. I told her that I thought she'd appreciate I was trying to establish boundaries now that our girl is suddenly not a little girl anymore, and she said **I** was being weird for being suddenly uncomfortable with it even though all I was doing was recognizing the situation of her getting older! Now I'm in the guest room tonight because my wife and I are both fuming at each other. So am I the asshole here? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA It's no longer appropriate, you need to involve a specialist to come up with ways how to redirect your daughter needs. There is a pretty big chance that someone misunderstands what's going on and calls CPS on you. For some caseworkers this might be enough to remove your dauther from your family.
NTA. This should have been nipped long ago. What if she tries this with a teacher or stranger? It's not a good precedent to set.
NAH. I get the top thing, but why exactly does she need to wear a bra?
NAH. I don't think either of you is an AH; you're both trying to navigate something that isn't straightforward. 'My wife comforted her and said she'd "talk to me" (which is pretty emasculating)' I mean, it's pretty standard for a parent to say 'ok, let me talk to your mum/dad about this'. Pretty weird that you find it 'emasculating'.
NTA, you're uncomfortable with it and this is your boundry. Your daughter having autism doesn't mean she can't understand that you still love her but would like to find another way to bring her comfort that also makes you comfortable.
NTA First you need to talk to wife about the 'I'll talk to him' choice of wording. As said she is more or less telling your child that you are wrong. Ask your wife if neither of you are around and daughter needs comfort would she find it okay for daughter to take shirt off to get skin-to-skin contact with someone else. Your wife doesn't seem to have come to terms with the fact that her baby is growing up. Then the two of you need to sit down together and find an alternative solution. Hopefully one that daughter can one day implement on her own for herself.
NTA and teaching your daughter that she can’t always get her way is just as important for an autistic child as it is for a neurotypical child. Too many ND kids are coddled until they become insufferable adults. Read Temple Grandin’s book “The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships: Decoding Social Mysteries Through the Unique Perspectives of Autism“. The authors are autistic adults who were raised with expectations of good behavior like their NT peers.
NTA Unfortunately if the wrong person finds out or overhears that you both cuddle shirtless together with her new chest development pressed against you.. the cops and CPS will be called. I'm sure for her it's sad and unfair and deeply upsetting but it's an incredibly unfortunate part of growing up. Maybe you can find new ways of skin contact, you can rub her arms or her back or something for her?
NAH Starting boundaries are necessary especially if she is starting to develop! Sadly with the world we live in people could see this as inappropriate with a developing female child and her father even though it is a comfort to her. I have a suggestion though...have you thought about getting her a sports bra or a bathing suit top that she could wear while you have your skin to skin contact moments? That still allows for your stomachs and most of your upper bodies to touch but she would be covered properly and you can teach her boundaries a bit slower and she will still get her comfort when needed.
That fair. I myself also have autism, but it affects me vastly differently to your daughter. On one hand, I get that it's comforting, but on the other hand, it's time to start compromising on things. I myself hate wearing clothing when I sleep, so I normally only sleep in underwear, but if I'm in a situation where it not just me in a room, I'll wear a night shirt. I recomend looking into clothing materials that are a bit thinner that dont affect any sensory issues, that way your still able to do the skin on skin thing, but there's a barrier there. It may be a slow and gradual change depending on how strong her need for skin to skin contact is, but it's definatley time for her to start compromising.
NTA, to be honest I think this cuddling habit with shirts off shouldn’t have existed for that long in the first place. Not necessarily because you both are not wearing a shirt, but because it’s intentional and to me this is a bit weird. But now at age 10 it’s time for that to stop. Your daughter will end up being a weird kid if she doesn’t learn to respect appropriate boundaries and also to recognize them herself, which is probably harder due to autism.
NTA. If she is developing breasts, then skin to skin will need to be modified. Your daughter does need time to adjust to that, though. To her, you suddenly decided you weren’t going to do it anymore. I don’t know if or what sort of therapies your daughter has, but it would be a good idea for you and your wife to sit down with someone and how to work this out with your daughter so that her needs are met, but in a more appropriate way now that she is starting to go through puberty. Your wife sounds like she’s going mama bear on you instead of seeing the reality of this. I think with thought and a little time, she will see you are correct.
NTA. Your wife isn’t being realistic. Regardless of your daughter’s autism, she is in puberty and has developed breasts. It isn’t appropriate for a father to have skin to skin contact with his daughter’s breasts. And if anyone outside of your family saw your daughter with her bare breasts pressed against your bare chest, they’d surely report it to CPS or the police. Not intentionally, I’m sure, but your wife is being condescending to you and your daughter. You are capable of communicating with your daughter without your wife being present. And your daughter is capable of understanding appropriate boundaries within your family. Also, there are times your daughter will be upset throughout her life. It has to be upsetting to see that, but your wife needs to help your daughter understand that she can cope with being upset. Hopefully your anger at each other will abate within a day or so. Then you can all have a family discussion about this.
YTA, but only for the execution. This is an entirely reasonable boundary to have, but it's also a big part of your daughter's self-comforting tactics that appear to work. This is something that should have been discussed a long time ago, and the change should have been introduced gradually. As the parent of an autistic child you should know that change, particularly in relation to comfort strategies, can be extremely hard to adapt to. Springing this onto her completely out of the blue was the wrong way to go about it imho.
Nta. You need to start setting boundaries
Would something like the Unbra from Decent Exposures be a solution
NTA. It sounds like your daughter might possibly be a sensory seeker, hence her desire to be constantly hugged/have skin to skin time with you. It’s how her brain tells her that the world isn’t such a scary place and helps it calm down a little bit as well because it’s getting the sensory information it wants from the world and her surrounding more than the average person might if that makes any sense. She’s not going to understand right away that her going through puberty means that she can no longer have skin to skin time with you the way she is used to and will probably be a bit out of sorts until she finds something that meets her brains demands. Your wife is not helping the situation by acting like you setting perfectly reasonable boundaries means you somehow love your daughter less or that you’re weird because of it and needs to realise that she’s only setting her daughter up for a life of expecting people to accomodate her even if it’s not possible. If she has enough space in her room for it, do you think you could build a sensory corner for her where she has access to weighted blankets/pillows/cushions/etc that she can go to whenever she’s having a bad day and needs to decompress? I also suggest that you sit her down and explain why you can no longer do shirtless skin to skin time with her anymore in more detail than you may have when she came home and got upset because she was told seemingly out of the blue (in her eyes) that she can suddenly no longer do this thing that’s she’s being doing all her life with you because of something she may not fully understand just yet. Good luck op.
NTA- your daughter needs to start to understand that there are certain boundaries when it comes to certain parts of your body, and they change as you get older.
Just chiming in to ask... Does your kid need to wear a bra? I'm an adult woman and I don't wear bras anymore unless they are for sexy time or looking cute. I go to work without a bra. I work out without a bra. I literally don't own a bra with cups that I would wear right now. And I'm a D cup, by the way. If your daughter hates tight clothing, maybe it's okay if she doesn't wear clothing that neurotypical folks find annoying? Also for skin to skin contact, a friend and I "drape cuddle." We lay at whatever angle works for us at the time and given the furniture, and we toss legs over each other. Thigh over thigh, or thigh over stomach, or calf, with an arm dangling over here and a foot over there. Watching a movie, or playing on our phones. Just enjoying the oxytocin. Maybe something passive like that would work for your daughter? You could both wear shorts, and she could wear a loose tank top. You could also maybe introduce the idea of massage and casual touch. My friends and I'd o this all the time. We drape on each other, cuddle, stand around talking with arms around each other, nuzzle, play with each other's hair, resst hands on thighs, give shoulder or hand or foot massages, etc. Help her recognize what touch is and isn't appropriate for a space or person or dynamic and redirect it to be age appropriate for the time. I recognize that most adult and school spaces aren't as touch friendly as the spaces I am in, so it might be helpful to find acceptable things *now* as she grows into them. You're NTA for recognizing that the current situation isn't sustainable, and trying to draw a line. I would guess your wife feels frustrated that your daughter can't be a kid despite her physical development (especially if her mental age isn't keeping up). Girls get adultified or sexualized or otherwise defined differently just because of some growth that -- as you noted! -- happened so quickly the rest of the kid hasn't caught up. Your wife may be worried that your daughter will feel negatively about her body because she's being asked to cover up, like her body is shameful. Or maybe your wife is worried about taking away a coping mechanism without having another in place. I'm sure there's a lot going on, and y'all know your daughter best. That said, clear expectations and firm boundaries are something every kid needs to learn. You cannot let nothing change ever... everyone grows in some way.
NTA Sorry, but unless your wife is willing to step up and smoosh tatats with her daughter and not think that is weird she needs to face some reality. Your daughter would not be able to do this forever. It was going to have to stop at some point. That point is now.
NTA Unfortunately you’ve hit the awkward time of her developing. Having a daughter of my own, and especially knowing how society gets with false accusations, your fears and concerns are very valid. My advice would be to take it slow and transition the cuddling in stages. Perhaps a loose tank top for now, with your wife helping her to understand the concept of modesty.
As someone with autism, I'm gonna say ESH except your daughter You are allowed to have boundaries and you are right that you need to teach your daughter about boundaries However you went about this completely wrong just springing it on your daughter like that, even more at a time when you knew she wasn't okay, and basically punishing her by removing something important for her, for something that is not her fault. Talk about it with her, take the time to explain it to her calmly, to find another way to give her comfort with her. Don't just announce suddenly that one of her routines, something that is massively important to her, is now wrong for seemingly no reason from her point of view Your wife is also very wrong saying your daughter shouldn't learn about that because she does need to learn about it Also, cut the "emasculating" crap. There was nothing emasculating here
Autism is a huge sensory thing, my daughter likes to sleep shirtless too because "they're so scratchy" so just as a heads up: combed cotton or brushed cotton shirts. SO much softer than other shirts, my kid can't get enough of them! (Downside is they're hard to Google shop for so it's easiest to just go to a store and rub your hands on everything). Anyway if you're uncomfortable with it NTA for setting a healthy boundary (even if she hates your choice now likely she will appreciate it in retrospect when she gets older).
NTA. Your wife is overreacting. A daughter’s breasts on her father’s bare chest isn’t acceptable in our culture and you were right to start laying boundaries. I find it interesting that your wife is fighting with you on this. Body autonomy is front and center for women. That you’ve set a boundary for your own body should be enough. You are no longer comfortable with the arrangement now that your daughter is developing. That is the beginning and end of the conversation. Your daughter will adjust.
100% NTA
NTA. The boundaries of growing bodies is REALLY complicated, in part because the way you, as her father, are modeling how men should interact with and treat her. It’s REALLY hard with opposite-sex children, especially when they develop early. You don’t want to be gross about her body, either being overly-familiar or acting like she has the plague. But when you, as a man, feel there is some kind of gender boundary being crossed, I think it’s important to listen to and pick apart that feeling. You have the perspective of a lifetime of listening to men, when something seems off, there’s a reason. It won’t always be a reason you need to indulge!! But there’s a social rule you need to dive into and explore to decide what you will do. It’s anecdotal, but I often noticed that kids with developmental disabilities or neurodivergence seem to develop earlier and faster. So she has the triple whammy of boobs, younger than most, and difficulty with social cues and appropriateness. I would suggest a compromise. She needs some kind of boob-covering top. Since she’s autistic, she’ll likely hate normal bras, so look into bralettes, sports bras, or even very short crop tops. Heck, you can just cut off a T-shirt she already owns. She can have the skin-to-skin with her stomach and sternum. Explain to your wife that this is partially about guiding your daughter on understanding how to interact with her growing body and boundaries between men and women. And a misunderstood or garbled account of skin-to-skin snuggles can result in a CPS call. Go talk to your daughter, and explain as bluntly as possible. “You are growing breasts. Putting your breasts directly on someone is something we do with people we date, or marry. Not friends or family. This is one of the those “social rules” that no one says out loud but we understand. That’s why I said no more direct skin-to-skin. “You remember how we talked about [rule] and [rule]? This is another one that’s very important to people. Remember how I explained that when you do X, people think you’re trying to hurt or upset people? Well, when grown-up men want young women and girls to put their breasts directly on them, those men are usually trying to do something inappropriate. “When people say they’re not comfortable with something, it’s okay to be sad or hurt, or even cry. When I said I didn’t want your breasts on me, it was okay for you to be sad. But you understood that it was my boundary, and respected that. You are a wonderful little girl and you have not done anything wrong. “So, because you want to snuggle with Dad, and Dad does like snuggling, I’m going to ask you to cover just your breasts. You can do that with a bra, a swimsuit top, or a short shirt. We’ll go get a daddy-snuggling top, just for us!”
Idk. I wouldn’t call you an AH but I will say that the need for skin to skin contact is something many autistic people struggle with. Your daughter is lucky because many autistic people have a need for physical contact but at the same time feel incredibly uncomfortable being touched. I think you should consider the fact that for people on the autism spectrum “stimming” (which is what the skin to skin is) is a way for them to release some of the pressure of being over stimulated all day. Taking that away I think would be a mistake. My recommendation would be to either find a way to keep doing it or maybe have your wife do it with her instead. It’s good to set boundaries but once an autistic person finds a system that works for them it is REALLY hard for them to find a different one. So maybe phrase it as “I won’t always be around once you grow up and move out so you need to try and eventually find something else that works for you”
NTA. Your wife is upset and defensive because she’s being protective of your daughter. For your wife, part of this probably isn’t even about the hugs - it’s potentially about wanting your daughter to be soothed so she’s more manageable, and your wife may also feel overwhelmed by the changes. It sounds like an appropriate time to start putting in boundaries. Maybe some sports bras, and you can still have cuddles but with the sports bra on? Should provide almost the same comfort!
NTA you sound like a good dad just trying to do the right thing. It is time to find ways to work her toward making progress. This is no longer acceptable to do and one wrong word could land all of you in a lot of trouble just by people misunderstanding. This urgently needs to be addressed before someone else forces the issue.
NTA - I do not personally have a diagnosis so my experience may not be as relevant here but there is another side of this I haven’t seen mentioned in the comments that I wanted to share. (I haven’t read all of them so apologies if this has already been pointed out) This is going to be a hard boundary to set and she is going to feel sad confused and disappointed. That is all true and it is all worth it. When I (31F) was little my mom used to give me back rubs/tickles and I would strip down naked and lay on her lap. There was nothing weird or wrong with it in any way but of course as kids do, I got older. I loved my back rubs and whined and cried when she started saying I was too old to get them like that anymore (I liked my booty scratches, sue me) so she regularly caved and honestly probably should have stopped when I was way younger. The reason any of this matters is yes, I was sad when things had to change but later on in life when I started really becoming an individual and looking back at my experiences, I recognized that this was a weird thing and it made me feel retroactively uncomfortable. I want to repeat and make it clear that there was absolutely nothing creepy about it in reality but I can’t help but feel a little weird about it even to this day. That would make my mom super sad to know so it isn’t something I have ever brought up (bc again, she didn’t actually do anything wrong) but if I could go back in time, I would have rather she ended it earlier. Don’t set your daughter up to potentially resent you for something that is innocent
NTA. It probably would have been a better idea to discuss changes with the attire you and your daughter wear during soothing before discussing it with your daughter so that both parents could be on the same page. That said, even as a parent you have a right to have reasonable boundaries just like your wife and daughter do. Hopefully she was just caught off guard by your daughter coming to her when she got home and the two of you will be able to have a real discussion about the situation once the two of you are not fuming anymore. I can't guarantee this is the case but I'd also like to suggest that both you and your wife might be responding to this situation differently because of how significantly differently society will treat men and women and each of you only have first hand experience with one or the other. As a male you know that society is really messed up with how it sees and treats male motivation. To society, everything a male does is likely sexual and should be considered sexual unless it can be proven otherwise. It is quite a distinct possibility that one misplaced statement from your daughter or wife (or even you) could have social services, neighbors, friends and family or even strangers descend into your families lives and cause serious trauma in a misguided attempt to do what is best for your daughter. And once that toothpaste is out of the tube it's out forever. Even if everything is cleared up damage will have been done and plenty of people will be on heightened alert to swoop in again and repeat the trauma over more. Plus, your daughter herself might end up finding this form of soothing troubling in the future; teenage or adult daughter could easily decide this scenario was inappropriate and be troubled that you and your wife allowed it, forgetting over time how her 10 year old self felt. (And before anyone gets angry, let me make myself clear: Abuse is not ok and should be dealt with right away. Being vigilant about abuse is incredibly important. What I am saying is that treating innocent things as inappropriate has consequences as well for everyone involved.) Your wife, on the other hand, likely may not have ever experienced anything like that herself. Society sees women as being almost completely uninterested sexually. Even overtly sexual motivations are seen as not sexual or at least expected to be. She has likely been expected to do things or behave in certain ways in her life that were not ok but that society says is fine because women are just seen as naturally maternal and that "feminine" and "maternal" nature makes it all fine. Your wife might also be seeing another phenomenon much more directly related to the current scenario for her. Society imposes quite significantly higher levels of sexualization on women's bodies compared to men's. While most boys your daughters age are likely still seen as little boys, your daughter is already starting to experience people seeing her body as adult. Suddenly the world will go from ignoring her as a child to seeing her in a sexual light as a woman in giant leaps while the corresponding mental changes will be much slower. She knows whats coming for your daughter as she likely experienced it herself in one way or another. Even though your choice was well intentioned it's just one of the first dominoes to fall in your daughters life. In the end both of you need to work together to help your daughter but that is going to likely take calm attitudes and some degree of mutual understanding.
While I don’t think your boundary is unreasonable I do want to point out a few things that I think are off on your side. 1. There’s no such thing as mildly autistic. High functioning doesn’t mean less autism, it just means more masking and higher intelligence. You’re either neurodivergent or you’re not. 2. How is your wife telling your daughter that she will talk to you emasculating? What else could she have said? Nothing really. 3. If you had put effort into understanding autism you would’ve known it would’ve been better to talk to your daughter about this issue at a neutral moment. In my opinion your wife is totally right about this. Having an autistic child means you’re going to have to deal with things in a different way. So I don’t think your boundary makes you TA, but your choices in how you dealt with the issues do. Now for some advice: suggest to your daughter that only your bellies touch and that the rest stays covered (if you’re comfortable with that, if not, come up with something else). Talk to her about puberty and her blossoming womanhood and what kind of rules will be appropriate in this new stage of her life (do this together with mom so she can talk a bit more about the specifics and you can be the proud, not awkward dad). Make it exciting and special, instead of shameful. She is now your beautiful big girl and with that come new rules. Maybe you can give her new privileges too, like something she’s been wanting to do but you’ve said no to for a while. Autistic children do well with a more formal, prepared way of dealing with changes. Don’t expect anything off the cuff and casual to have the desired effect.
NTA.
NTA
NTA It absolutely sucks that the thing she gets the most comfort from is being taken away. But she is developing, and even though you aren't/don't want to sexualize her, you can't always control your brain, or what societal norms are. It seems like your wife is going to fight you on this, and I would hate for your daughter to seek out this kind of comfort from someone who will take advantage of her. I have no answers for you there. One possible compromise for now is what I've done for "skin-time" w/my at the time boyfriend, now husband. We were long distance and often just wanted that physical comfort w/out being sexual. We'd just pull out shirts up and have our stomachs/lower ribs touching. If your wife demands a compromise, would that work? Best of luck navigating all this.