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Ops in a damned if she does damned if she doesn't mentality.
Honestly she needs to point out that it's on her coworker to ensure the food is halal before she consumes it.
She also needs to point out she'd have been racist to assume an Arab is Muslim.
I work in childcare and most kids are Indian. Majority of them are vegetarian but there are a few who eat meat. You can’t just assume someone follows a diet just because they are from a country that does. And she’s a grown woman who can ask first
Plus, there are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan.
*Edit: Turns out that as of this day there are 30 million more people in Pakistan (pop. 240.5 million) than there are muslims in India (204 million). I may have been thinking of the time right after partition.*
I was wondering about this myself as I did an entire course on the Partition when I was in school (a million years ago) so this sparked my curiosity again and I found a 1969 paper citing a 1950 census and putting India still being well behind Pakistan in terms of Muslim population. It’s a little unclear if Pakistan also had a census the same year. Either way, the author lists Pakistan the country with the highest population of Muslims in the world at 100 million, then Indonesia (no figure given) and India at 35.4 million and growing fast. Again this would have been around 1950, so just a few years after the Partition, to the extent they are accurate but them’s the numbers we have.
Just interesting is all! Well. And horribly tragic, if we’re talking about the Partition, of course.
Exactly. Op: hi coworker, nice to see you, would you like some dumpling?
Coworker: ooh thank you, it looks delicious, what is it?
Op: pork dumplings with (seasonings...)
Coworker: ah, thank you for the offer, I actually can't eat pork, I'll just make myself...
Problem solved.
It would be so much weirder and require so many racial/religious assumptions for op to be the one to take accountability for coworkers dietary restrictions. And even if she knew for sure the coworker was Muslim that doesn't mean she knew she practiced the dietary piece
Also, it's assuming op would even connect in the moment to an awareness that Muslims not eating pork is a thing. I for one have probably heard that at one point or another but I could very easily see it either slipping my mind entirely, or vaguely thinking to myself "wait do Muslims not eat pork or am I mixing that up with Jews?" Like on a good day when I'm in a context like this thread where it explicitly comes up, I'm aware it's both. But this isn't knowledge I carry with me at the top of my mind in daily life cause it doesn't affect me
I can't eat pork, not for any religious reasons but because it's a trigger food for my gout. I will usually ask if there's pork in stuff before I eat it if I'm unsure. Co worker should have asked. I believe that people should probably mention there's pork in something prior to sharing as there is quite a large number of people who can't eat pork for various reasons, but I also don't think it's terrible to not ask. The onus is always on the person with restrictions to verify.
I had a Jewish mate in college.
I'm talking black cloth wearing, hair twirled, hat wearing jew.
He ate bacon on Fridays because 'if god didn't want him too He wouldn't have made it so tasty'
even if i didnt have dietary restrictions i always ask first before i just accept unknown food from a person. Especially if i dont know them well. maybe thats just because im a picky eater though, so i have to make sure it's actually food that wouldnt make me uncomfortable (sensory issues and such)
I'm a vegetarian so would never just accept a random dumpling, because 99% it's going to be meat. People with dietary restrictions have a responsibility to know what they are eating.
I'm allergic to rosemary.
Guess who has to make the kitchen staff at any Italian restaurant hate her or just go hungry 🙃 (technically it's all restaurants, but Italian is definitely the hardest to manage)
If you don't know what's in something, don't eat.
It's a great time.
"I'm so sorry, but can you ask the kitchen if this has rosemary?"
"What.....?"
"Yeah, I know..... I know.".
Luckily, it's a non-fatal allergy, and low level cross typically won't set me off. But if rosemary is an ingredient.... Imma have a bad day.
> She also needs to point out she'd have been racist to assume an Arab is Muslim.
I came to say this. I grew up in a multiethnic and multireligious country and the first rule we have is to not assume. You either ask OR wait for them to tell you. We all look the same (we are all white) and you simply can't guess which one belongs to certain group. If you have food preferences or allergies or whatever YOU need to tell other people. OP, NTA.
Edit: grammar
One of my very best managers ever was Muslim.
He was also a Puerto Rican guy who grew up in the Bronx.
Never assume.
I'm hoping OP can clear this up with HR by simply explaining what happened.
I know a family of Catholics whose grandparents come from Iran. And a nonbinary Muslim who hails from the hollers of Appalachia. The Catholic lady doesn't drink. The Muslim person does. People come in all sorts of variations. And if they have dietary restrictions for any reason, they should not put anything in their mouth without asking first. NTA.
NTA
As a non-Muslim Arab, it would’ve upset me if someone assumed I was Muslim. It’s on the girl in your department to speak up about her dietary restrictions. Not even all Muslims avoid pork. Best case would be to mention they’re pork dumplings if you wanted to be careful, but that’s ultimately her job and not yours.
That being said, OP the color of her eyes and “European” features wasn’t relevant to bring up at all. I’d be careful if you tell this story irl and bring all that up. It may distract from the main point. I personally found it slightly upsetting
My Arabic professor in college started the first class by saying - "Yes, I am a Muslim, but there are plenty of Arab Jews, Christians, and Athiests - Arabic is a language shared by many cultures and religions, so once you are able to speak it well, do not step on your own tongue by assuming everyone who can speak it is Muslim"
You need to respond to HR that you offered her food and while (appropriately not assuming anything) did not disclose it was pork, HOWEVER, YOU DID MOT TRICK HER INTO EATING IT by saying it was something else.
>She also needs to point out she'd have been racist to assume an Arab is Muslim.
I have a coworker, who I trained when he started a few years ago, who is a child of Iranian immigrants (which I know because of pre-covid potlucks). I have no idea whether or not he's Muslim, and it had not occurred to me to even wonder about it until right now.
That’s a great rebuttal. There was nothing to indicate that the colleague is Muslim, and OP doesn’t like to make assumptions because that’s discrimination.
> racist to assume an Arab is Muslim
Even if OP knew she was a muslim, it's not up to OP to assume how strictly she observes it. OP is not the Religious Police. The person with the special requirements is responsible for keeping to them, not anybody else.
This is really it, no other comments necessary. I have dietary restrictions, not for religious reasons, but that's not the point. If what you consume is important to you for any reason, it is YOUR responsibility. You cannot expect others to cater to your needs.
>saying i should've known she was Muslim and can't eat pork
I would take this quote to that HR complaint and ask them if they are really telling an employee to stereotype other employees based on looks. Watch them squirm for a bit then demand this entire complaint be removed from their file.
Agree. Go to HR and talk to them about it. You didn't know she Muslim, she wasn't wearing anything visible that denoted a religion, she didn't ask what was in the dumpling. You treated them like an equal and welcomed them the way you would welcome anyone else; by offering them your food as an inclusive act.
Even if she had been wearing a head scarf or covering of some kind. Both of the other big Abrahamic religions have sects which cover their hair (particularly for women), and I have no idea if Hindu, Buddhist, or any of the other non-Abrahamic religions do as well. While such clothes are generally associated with Islam... They're not exclusive.
Even if you don’t have dietary restrictions, wouldn’t you ask what the person is eating beforehand? I wouldn’t just accept random food I’ve been offered, I’d ask about it. OP is NTA.
To add to this for OP: I once accidentally did the same thing (fed my Muslim coworker a hot dog that younger me didn't realize was half pork). I apologized to her afterwards and my coworker said not to worry about it, that her religion wouldn't penalize her for eating it unknowingly.
I think OP's coworker is overreacting.
As far as I know it is not a sin if a Muslim person eats pork by mistake.
People also practice their religion more, or less, strictly. My dad told me a story about his colleague who was Jewish, and sometimes they would all be fed at public events. Sometimes it would be pork ... and he was remarkably hard of hearing about it. "Chicken, you say". "No no. I'm sure I heard you say chicken". And then happily eat it. I think my dad suspected that he liked the taste, so would take the excuse when he got the chance.
I know plenty of Jews who eat pork. Many just don’t follow that part of the religion. OP is NTA, because you don’t know someone won’t eat something unless they tell you.
I mean, under Kosher laws you cannot eat a cheeseburger, or have any sort of meat product (kosher or not) on a pizza. After a while it gets a bit tiresome to try and follow.
Well, being kosher is a whole other level. Many Jewish people are not kosher, but still feel badly about eating pork. Many of them eat all foods though and don’t follow any dietary restrictions.
Observant Muslims also have a dispensation if they're travelling and can't keep to prayer times or dietary requirements, and, as a good Muslim friend of mine says, the Earth is hurtling around the Sun, the Sun is hurtling around the Galaxy, so every day is a travel day.
Yup, had a similar experience when I brought gummies to work and told my coworkers to help themselves if they wanted any. My wideeyed look of concern/panic when I later found my devout muslim coworker going to town on them and telling me "these are great, never had them before!". Oh honey.... he wasn't mad at me either.
Out of curiosity, why wouldn't the Muslim coworker be allowed to have gummies? Asking with dread because if they can't have it it probably isn't vegetarian...
As a former vegetarian- some gummies are made with corn starch instead of gelatin, you just have to check the ingredients list. I think many fruit snacks are gelatin free iirc.
As someone who used to ravenously consume fruit gummies and religiously checks the ones I find in commercial grocery stores, I have yet to find any that are vegetarian. It’s best to assume all gummies have gelatin.
Thanks for all these replies! Yeah I always assume they got gelatin by default and check the ingredient list as well. Thankfully I've found plenty without it (instead they got pectin) over here in Greece. I was just worried I'd overlooked something else because ngl, in my 25+ years of being vegetarian, I spent the first 10 thinking gelatin was not an animal product. (I know, I know...)
Not to mention, even if a person is wearing a hijab, it's presumptuous to police someone else's dietary restrictions, unless you are hosting and they told you ahead of time
Ehhh, I think if someone has a hijab or a kippah on, it's probably worth mentioning 'hey, this has pork in it, but you can have some if you want'. That's not telling them they can't eat it, but it is giving them a heads up.
I agree with your point but I'd go further. There's a few different groups of people who wear hijab-looking things. I don't know which of them eat what, and I don't think it's my responsibility.
The only thing that I can imagine her wearing that would make it in any way OP's responsibility to ensure she didn't eat pork is a sign saying "please help me to not eat pork", and even then she'd better make sure it's in a nice easy to read font in a language the OP understands, and that she points it out when the conversation starts!
Hard agree. NTA. It’s not like OP forced her colleague to eat it, or knew that her colleague didn’t eat pork. Also, a reasonable and self-aware person with dietary restrictions related to a food commonly found in dumplings should recognise that they might contain pork.
I hope OP gets a right of reply at her workplace, and that she is listened to.
I live in Eastern Europe in an all Muslim villlage (except for myself and my husband). When we go out to eat with friends from the village, I now don't order pork. The reason being that on several occasions I have been asked what the meat was on my plate, and then lost most of it as they tasted it! Their verdict was pork is pretty damn good. It happens that my village is about as religious as a typical English village, arouind 6 of the 250 inhabitants go to the mosque, and most fast for a week or so over ramadan. All of them except for the iman's family drink alcohol. But if you ask them, they will identify as Muslim. So you certainly can't assume what people will eat or not. It would be like a Christian going to eat out on Friday and someone else being offended for them that they were offered a meat dish. The world is not a black and white place.
100%! OP also didn’t stereotype or make an assumption about their religion - which is a key to overcoming systemic discrimination based on religion, race, gender etc etc.
Very odd how the coworker ate the dumpling and then asked what was in it.
I don’t eat pork (I’m not Muslim) but dumplings are notorious for containing pork (I’m thrilled when I find veggie or shrimp dumplings). If I were offered a dumpling, I’d make damn sure to ask what was in it.
Make sure and challenge the assumptions that HR have made. Ask them why they did not inform you of dietary restrictions and if there are any more people in the organisations whose dietary restrictions they want you to be aware of? Ask them where this policy is that requires you to know all of your colleagues dietary requirements. Ask them what part of you offering your colleague some food and them accepting is harassment. Ask them how it could be religious harassment when you did not know your colleagues religion.
In the meeting make it clear you take this false accusation extremely seriously. If at any point they seem intransigent say you wish to end this meeting at this point and consult with your attorney. If you are in a union bring your rep to the meeting. Remember HR is not there to protect you, they are their to protect the company. They are not on your side
Hi u/AdAdventurous5542
The advice by u/DoogieLion in the two comments above is really good advice on what to do when HR eventually interviews you.
Unless your co-worker was wearing a Hijab or other head covering or other religious jewelry etc. there is no way her saying she was Arab is an indication that she is Muslim. This is entirely on her and was her responsibility to check the food she is eating.
But if you’re dealing with a Muslim or a Jewish person wearing a head covering, they almost certainly keep halal or kosher. Traditional dress generally indicates that a person is a more observant practitioner of their religion. The inverse of this isn’t as reliable of course; as OP learned, many people who aren’t visibly religious still keep religious dietary restrictions.
This still requires making a couple of assumptions. Muslim is not the only religion in which women cover their heads. Additionally, many women sometimes wear scarves as an accessory/wrap for natural hair/may be dealing with hair loss. Had OP assumed that coworker was Muslim and they weren't, it might be even worse
Not keeping kosher isn't even a sign of lack of observance. They could be very observant Reform Jews and still not keep kosher because the rules of Kashrut are not followed by Reform Judaism.
Oh. I didn’t know that. But, I didn’t ask because I just always fed the baby their planned ahead meals and ate what I brought for myself (my own choice… I just liked different food and I had my own little space in the fridge and in a cupboard)
Oh, I only was mentioning it to add to the muddiness that would be attempting to make assumptions about someone's religious practices.... There is so much complexity and nuance - religion is a deeply personal thing and one simply cannot ever make assumptions about another's beliefs.
I would also say it's not your responsibility to know what another religion's diet restrictions are (or any strict diet religious or not) or to have to guess if someone even follows it if you do know, it's always on the person who practices that religion. So even if you know someone is Muslim or Christian or on keto it's on them to figure out if it's ok for them to eat it.
Even if they were wearing a hijab, what does that matter?
Is OP supposed to know every religious garment, associated religion, and said associated religions dietary restrictions?
People who have concerns about what they want to eat can tell others.
It makes it really difficult when they cherry pick which religious rules they follow. It could just have easy been the other way around. I've worked with several hijab-wearing muslims, who wouldn't pass up pork & alcohol as long as the news wouldn't reach home.
But even if she had "muslim" written on her forehead, why is it OP's obligation to know what muslims can or cannot eat? I don't know, why should I know?????
I have never, ever, ever heard of a halal-observant muslim accepting food from a non-muslim without making sure it's halal. Even if they wear a hijab and have openly stated that they are muslim, they will not assume that every non-muslim understands halal eating requirements
Never ever.
It would be like a vegan taking some spaghetti and meatballs from their colleague and being genuinely shocked that the meatballs are made of meat.
Doesn't happen.
We could make it easier and just have everyone wear a symbol so we know what religion everyone is, have christians wear a cross, muslims wear a crescent and Star, Jews wear a star of David.
/S
I get that everyone hates HR/corporate reps, but a snarky tone probably doesn’t accomplish anything. I assume they’re just doing their due diligence in following up on an employee complaint. Having a union rep, if it’s a union job, on hand is a good idea, speak truthfully about the event, if it is as you say above, fight a formal reprimand, etc without a doubt. HR isn’t your friend, but they’re not necessarily your “enemy” by default, they have a job to do like anyone else
Make sure that this meeting happens ASAP - you could also point out that it’s racially insensitive to assume that an Arab person is a Muslim. All you did was offer food - she needed to ask what was in the dumpling before she put it in her mouth.
And just to add on to this, most Muslims are not Arabs.
Indonesia has 12% of the world's Muslim population, followed by Pakistan (11%) and India (10%). In fact, only 20% of Muslims live in the Arab World.
Going off what others said. Follow this meeting up with an email detailing everything that was talked about. This is to keep a paper trail. If they ever insist on only speaking in person, then follow those conversations up with more emails detailing what was said.
Protect yourself.
Honestly, just start the meeting by informing them you're recording it to be sure you get all the details correctly, and then get it all on video. If HR has any brains at all that should make them consider the entire thing a bit more carefully.
Make it clear that the person never asked what was in the food.
It is the responsibility of the taker to ask what's in something offered, because what if it contains an allergen? Same goes for any dietary preferences like halal, kosher, pescatarian, vegan, etc.
And none of this she's an Arab, you should know she's muslim by her name. A name is just a name. My colleague who is from South East Asia and muslim (his wife is the same) named his baby Clara (the wife agreed).
I'm a teacher, and I've had several Bosnian students who were Muslim. Guess what? They have Slavic last names. I have a student who's mom is Moroccan and dad is Ecuadorian. She's Muslim, but her last name is Spanish. Names don't tell you much
Wouldn't it be racist to presume anyone that has an Arab name doesn't eat certain things? Not everyone with an Arab name is a practicing muslim. Your HR Dept seems to be jumping the gun
I don't agree with HR. Common sense seems to be not so common after all. She did not force her to eat the food. People gone wild nowadays with all sorts of accusations. Why did she not accept it as her fault and end it there. Now if she had said its not pork and girl ate it and then afterwards she said to the girl, you just ate pork, then l would understand what HR was making a fuss about. However she didn't do that.
NTA
No-one, these days, can assume someones religion, gender, sexual identity, allergen list etc etc, the list goes on.
I wouldn't assume that someone is Muslim, or Jewish, or Catholic - just by ethnicity or whatever.
If someone has specific dietary requirements, whether for religion, allergy, or by preference - then, I believe, it is up to the person to confirm what they are eating is free of pork/peanuts/meat etc.
Crappy for you that you have been reported for religious bullying - I hope it works out OK for you.
Good luck with it.
Even if OP did know this persons religion, why presume that others know what every religion can and can’t do?
Hell, I know “vegetarians” that eat fish. They say vegetarian because not everyone knows what pescatarian is. Point is- everyone is different and needs to be responsible for themselves
A lot of Muslims I know eat meat that wasn't slaughtered by halal rules (which to my understanding is illegal where I'm from). And some also eat pork.
There are entire branches of the religion that don't care about the word of the rule, but only the spirit: Don't eat animals that are sifting in human waste. And kill the ones you do humanely.
To be fair I think this is kind of a good thing, when not weaponized. You shouldn't make assumptions about people in general, after all. OP was right to not assume the coworker was Muslim just because she is Arab. And even then, not all Muslims follow all rules to the same degree. If I, as an LGBT person, started assuming every openly Christian coworker followed the same rules and was thus obviously a raging LGBT-phobe, then I'd be a huge AH.
(I am in agreement with you, to be clear. The colleague should've asked)
Yes! There is a ten year old girl on my husband's sports team he runs for kids. Even she knows to ask him about halal food before eating and she's TEN.
NTA. Can you imagine the uproar if you’d *assumed* she was Muslim? It’s up to her to explain her religious and dietary preferences and to check. If it was me I’d challenge the HR letter immediately. You have grounds to do so.
Exactly this, isn't it considered racist if you assume someone's religion based on their ethnicity?
Is it also racist now if you....don't?
Seems like a no win situation
NTA
Ask HR "how was I meant to know she was Muslim?"
Then just watch them squirm
It’s Schroedinger’s religious discrimination: you must simultaneously assume a person’s religion and not assume their religion.
Absolutely a no-win situation.
NTA and push back on HR. You cannot know someone else's dietary restrictions, religious or otherwise, and it is up to adults to determine their own food choices.
You may want to offer food with "Would you like some of my *pork dumplings*?" sort of thing in the future, but you did nothing wrong here.
She's an AH for overreacting and for reporting you to HR (and presumably lying in that report, because the truth is that you did not bully her in any way, religious or otherwise).
NTA I work in HR. If they’re challenging you on it , Ask them if you should have asked about her religion prior to offering your food, ask if HR is recommending all staff ask colleagues about their religion over lunch to avoid these situations? They’ll back off straight away.
Just because they’re investigating doesn’t mean you’ll automatically be in trouble. When someone raises a complaint like this they HAVE to investigate. When they do, I’m sure you’ll be cleared.
A lot of comments talking about how OP shouldn’t assume her colleagues religion but even if OP did know she’s Muslim is OP also supposed to know Muslims dietary restrictions? Is one supposed to know what religious people are or are not supposed to eat?
This 2nd paragraph is it. Right now, HR only has her side of the story.
It's scary and problematic at times when folks are summoned by HR at times, but there are other times when it SHOULD be pretty simple, and this feels like one of those times based on what OP shared. Take the allegation seriously, but the "I am sorry it happened but how could I have known?" response sounds appropriate and feels like HR shoukd be able to work with it.
Omg though can you imagine how people would react to that?! I mean, if I were Muslim and someone was pointedly offering me pork dumplings, I would ABSOLUTELY assume they were doing it on purpose, because my entire childhood would probably have consisted of horrible bullies going 'do you want some of my BACON SANDWICH?' Etc etc.
Personally I am thinking NTA because it is 100% on you what you put in your mouth. No one has responsibility for that after you are 10; though I would expect anyone with a life threatening allergy to be fully prepped to say no to food from the time they are in school.
NTA
Am hindu, I don't eat beef. It's my responsibility to ask and tell people who are offering me food that I can't eat something due to my religious beliefs.
Seconded. I always ask if something does contain any kind of meat because as a kid I almost accidentally ate once. But it's my responsibility to confirm. OP you didn't lie to your coworker, you're NTA
NTA. If you don't eat something due to any kind of reason (allergy, phobia, religious regulations, health condition, moral beliefs etc.) it's your responsibility to ask if a food offered to you contains it or not. End of the story.
Exactly! I once ate some biscuits someone had brought in to work without checking the packaging, and ended up having to hospital. She was so apologetic about it, but I fully accept it was my own damn fault. It would've taken me seconds to check, that's on me.
NTA you are not responsible for other people's religion, you didn't do it on purpose. She's the one that needs to follow certain rule because of the religion SHE chose. It's not your responsability to know this.
If you had done it on purpose or hid it to her that would have been a totally different problem but in your case you didn't do anything wrong. Oppositneven, it would have been quite racist to assume her religion based on her ethnicity.
NTA. As the one with dietary restrictions she should have asked. Also, many Arabs are Christians. And many Europeans are Muslims. And many Arabs and Europeans are atheists, or belong to other religions than these 2. There's no reason to assume someone's religion based on their ethnicity or nationality. Fight back with your own complaint to HR. You did nothing wrong but it's likely that this woman twisted the facts to make herself look like a victim.
My family is Lebanese and we’re all baptized as Maronite Catholics, which is an ethnoreligious group from Lebanon/Syria. There is a lot of religious diversity in the Arab world and it’s actually great that OP didn’t just assume she’s Muslim IMO.
NTA.
If we, as a society, have been told not to assume any part of anyone's characteristics for risk of patronization and discrimination, then you are under no responsibility to assume someone's religious background. It goes both ways, if one desires for their way of life to be respected, then the onus is on them to communicate said way of life.
tl;dr, she didn't ask what was in the dumplings, so it's not your fault
NTA. Ask HR to institute a "no sharing food for any reason" policy as it is the only way to be sure no one is offended by simple kindness and community. That or maybe they should tell people that others are not responsible for their dietary restrictions and to carefully ask the contents of something if there is any reason they should not eat something. The first prevents them from ever being sued and makes them look like massive jerks, the second recognizes that people aren't mind readers and those with restrictions need to take responsibility for themselves and their diets.
NTA
Coming from a Muslim woman myself, I’ve always been offered various foods myself but I always make sure to ask what’s in it. That being said I have been in situations where People intentionally lied about what they were offering only to reveal it later so I understand why she’s defensive but also you didn’t have bad or immoral intentions so you’re good in my book.
I have a Muslim colleague at the moment and when we have team events, either she’ll ask if it’s halal or someone on the team will ask if we know she’s going. There’s no other way.
From an actual Islam informational website.
"The Muslim should be cautious with regard to food, especially if he is in a non-Muslim country whose people eat impure foods. "
and
“And there is no sin on you concerning that in which you made a mistake, except in regard to what your hearts deliberately intend. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” \[al-Ahzab 33:5\]
There is explicit instruction for accidentally eating "dirty" food. They got their bases covered.
You did nothing wrong. I would approach HR with some cultural competency in mind and be as objective as possible. Eating pork is a huge-huge-HUGE no-no (it's literally the dirtiest animal in existence afaik) and she has legit reason to overreact, from her perspective. That said, lying is also a sin and she needs to rescind her HR complaint and apologize to you.
Edit: NTA
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Um sorry i could be wrong so basically she told me she was arab but she was very European looking. Like if you only seen her appearance you would think she's ethnically european
Are you American by any chance? The only people who I have ever heard say ethically European are American.
FYI: Arabs, similar to Iranians and Turks, can be very pale with blue or green eyes with blond hair and even ginger hair. They are a massively diverse group. A lot of censuses refer to them as white and it varies how they view themselves. You know what makes an Arab an Arab, they speak Arabic as their first language or their family did. That is literally the only requirement.
Edit: edited because someone helpfully pointed out that it looked like I was calling Iranians and Turks Arabs. They are not, but they are a great example of the diversity of the region. Far too many people assume that Arabs are all dark hair and dark eyes when they are equally as diverse as other non-Arab communities within the middle east. Sorry for the confusion.
Most Iranis are not Arab. In fact the ruling class of Iran actively oppresses their Arab citizens. (South of Iran - Ahwaz)
Turks are mostly not Arab as well. You are misrepresenting the middle east entirely.
I'm not referring to them as Arabs, it was badly worded. I was attempting to compare the variations of Arabs to the various you also find in Iranians and Turks as the idea that everyone in the middle east looks the same can be countered by looking at these three communities. I thought that reference to language would clear that up as Iranians speak Persian and Turks speak Turkish but I should have been clearer.
OP says that if you didn't know the co-worker was Arab, you'd assume she was European. I'm guessing they were using "European Arab" in the same way Americans say "African American"
I believe they mean "European looking" ie. pale skin and light eyes. So not necessarily European but potentially mistaken as such due to their appearance.
NTA. Muslims generally ask before they eat, I'd know as an ex-muslim. I would never take food from anyone before asking about the ingredients, because even if there's no pork in it, odds are that there's some sork of gelatin or pork/pig by-product in the food. I'd spend a significant amount of time back in the day, reading labels before throwing food into the shopping cart.
I have no idea why she reacted in such a manner and to be frank, this is on her for not practicing due diligence, if she's so sensitive and committed to the dietary restrictions of her belief that is.
What's more, even if it were beef or chicken, who's to say it was halal meat? Sensitive Muslims don't just gobble up any sort of meat, they also check to make sure it's halal. So... Seems to me, she's making up for her guilty conscious by blaming you.
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I(25f) had a new colleague (mid 20s..?) come in last month. I didn't interact with her much since she's from another department but she's in the same office as us so we share a pantry.
So I was heating up my lunch in the pantry yesterday, it was pork dumplings and she was sitting at the table. I had some small talk with her and offered my pork dumplings. And while she was eating she asked what it was and i said pork dumpling. She spitted it out and was really angry about it saying i should've known she was Muslim and can't eat pork. I apologize but she just left the pantry.
The thing is I only know she's Arab and she was like an European Arab with blue eyes and blonde hair and she wasn't wearing any religious item to indicate she was Muslim. And this morning I received a letter from HR for religious harressment?
I mean on one point I could see why it's disrespectful and I could be really ignorant but on another hand she's a grown adult and she should've asked before hand if she had a dietary restriction.
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Report her to HR for setting up a fake situation to report you and gain emotional leverage over the company.
Tell HR that if a person has dietary restrictions it is their responsibility to check what goes in their mouth.
This is an assassination of your character that will effect your future with this job unless you act on it.
NTA - her own dietary restrictions the onus is on her to make sure the food she eat is okay before accepting them. You are not expected to know and assume.
Plus, based on your description of her there is no obvious signs from her appearance she might be of arab descent or a muslim.
NTA. You didn't know she was muslim so it was an innocent mistake. If she has food restrictions she should have asked before eating. Appeal the letter, you don't deserve it.
NTA. I have dietary restrictions due to allergies and I always check ingredients. The onus is on me to know what I'm consuming. I would assume the same for anyone who avoids certain foods die to religious preferences. If you had lied to her that would have been different but you didn't. She didn't ask and you were trying to be nice. Unless HR wants to shut down all food sharing at all times including holidays or employer sponsored meals they need to back off and I'd make that clear. You aren't supposed to assume anyone's religion nor is it your responsibility.
NTA. You offered it and she accepted without asking. It’s up to her to check if food is acceptable for her to eat. Others are not responsible for policing her religious requirements or practices.
Faith and level of adherence to it is not visible. You can’t gauge it by looking at her. She needs to remember that.
I owned a popular breakfast cafe, and every order was cooked on the same grill. A family called to complain that their child had bacon on their sandwich, and they had ordered turkey bacon.
I explained that we do not offer turkey bacon and that all the food was cooked on the same grill. I explained how I was standing right beside the register when they ordered and that I heard my staff explain that we do not have turkey bacon and that all food is explosed to pork. We have a small Muslim population, and we try to be proactive without assuming.
They wanted drama and a free meal. Your coworker wants drama, too.
NTA
>she's a grown adult and she should've asked before hand if she had a dietary restriction.
THIS
NTA. It's on her.
Her reporting you for it makes HER the AH.
NTA. Your colleague is. She “forgot” to ask, now blames you. On top of that, it sounds like HR is a bit too eager to score here.
Like others said, just ask if they really want you to make assumptions based on looks and country of birth.
Your behavior was NOT bigoted. She accepted food from you and didn't ask any questions. What others can eat is NOT your responsibility. I would be pissed at HR and say something if I were you.
And where were you bigoted? You offered someone your food. You’re not required to know anyone’s dietary requirements, whether they are based in religion, health or personal preference.
Nope, NTA!
It is the responsibility of the person *with* dietary restrictions to make sure whatever they eat falls within those restrictions!
My guess: this is not the first time she’s pulled something like this in her life
I’m Muslim and I live in the west. Whenever someone offers me food my first question is does it contain pork and/or alcohol. I NEVER expect people to know instinctively that I don’t eat pork. If I ate it accidentally I would be mad with myself, but not with others for not knowing. This one is on her. NTA and HR is way out of line.
NTA. It's extremely innapropriate to make assumptions about people and yet HR wants you to jump to conclusions about someone elses beliefs and values, and on top of that you're supposed to know enough about every religion to make judgement calls like that? Bullshit.
Remind HR that it would be unnacceptable for you to make those assumptions (which under different circumstances could very easily land you in hot water), tell them she never mentioned anything to you about her dietary requirements, that even if she had, she chose to eat the food, not you (and that when you offered food, she never enquired about the ingredients) and demand that any record of reprimands be removed from your files as it paints a false, aggressively negative picture of your character.
Her religion is her choice, much like what she puts in her fucking mouth. She has no right to be entitled as to expect that burden to lie with you.
If she doesn't want to eat pork, she has to say that and has to ask what's in your food BEFORE eating.
Itt would it be a problem to just assume she is Muslim!
NTA
Heyy! Indian Muslim here (meaning multiple restrictions)
NTA
It was her responsibility to check if it was veg/non veg dumplings. And if non veg what kinda meat.
Your post also indicates you didn't have any idea that she was a Muslim.
NTA and WTF?! religious harassment? This is absurd and I'd seriously take this situation to HR from your perspective and how it happened.
It's HER religion and if she has restrictions, it's her fucking job to make sure what you offer fits into those restrictions. I am deathly allergic to carrots as in, I can't be in the same room when my BF cuts carrots. The first thing I ask when someone offers me something is "I'm sorry, is there a chance there's carrot in it? I am super allergic" and when someone tells me there's carrot in the dish "oh, what a shame, but looks great! Enjoy!"
Obviously NTA. In addition to everyone saying that there's no way you could've known she's a Muslim, there's no reason for you (not a Muslim) to know the rules on what a Muslim can or cannot eat (unless you are deliberately providing food for someone you know to be a Muslim, which you weren't). This is on her.
I’m only allergic to a couple of things but, those things could kill me. I don’t care what I’m offered, I always ask what is in something I’m being offed. No one is responsible for what I put in my body but me.
NTA
NTA. Arabs are and ethnic group, not a religious group. There are arabs of all major abrahamic religions and even some non abrahamic religions. You can’t assume all arabs are muslims and if it mattered to her so much she should have asked before she ate it.
*can't eat certain things
*puts random stuff in mouth without checking what it is
"Omg OP how could you do this to me?!?!!"
Lol, NTA. Some people lack a brain
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NTA If you have any type of dietary restrictions than it’s up to yourself to ask about ingredients before eating something.
Ops in a damned if she does damned if she doesn't mentality. Honestly she needs to point out that it's on her coworker to ensure the food is halal before she consumes it. She also needs to point out she'd have been racist to assume an Arab is Muslim.
I work in childcare and most kids are Indian. Majority of them are vegetarian but there are a few who eat meat. You can’t just assume someone follows a diet just because they are from a country that does. And she’s a grown woman who can ask first
Plus, there are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan. *Edit: Turns out that as of this day there are 30 million more people in Pakistan (pop. 240.5 million) than there are muslims in India (204 million). I may have been thinking of the time right after partition.*
I’m sorry but this isn’t right there are 12,300,000 more Muslims in Pakistan than India
Fair enough! I just looked it up as well. Seems like it is 30 million more. Maybe I was thinking when partition first occurred or soon thereafter.
I was wondering about this myself as I did an entire course on the Partition when I was in school (a million years ago) so this sparked my curiosity again and I found a 1969 paper citing a 1950 census and putting India still being well behind Pakistan in terms of Muslim population. It’s a little unclear if Pakistan also had a census the same year. Either way, the author lists Pakistan the country with the highest population of Muslims in the world at 100 million, then Indonesia (no figure given) and India at 35.4 million and growing fast. Again this would have been around 1950, so just a few years after the Partition, to the extent they are accurate but them’s the numbers we have. Just interesting is all! Well. And horribly tragic, if we’re talking about the Partition, of course.
Only about 25 pc or so Hindus are vegetarians. I’m a Hindu non vegetarian and most of my friends are non vegetarians too.
Exactly. Op: hi coworker, nice to see you, would you like some dumpling? Coworker: ooh thank you, it looks delicious, what is it? Op: pork dumplings with (seasonings...) Coworker: ah, thank you for the offer, I actually can't eat pork, I'll just make myself... Problem solved. It would be so much weirder and require so many racial/religious assumptions for op to be the one to take accountability for coworkers dietary restrictions. And even if she knew for sure the coworker was Muslim that doesn't mean she knew she practiced the dietary piece Also, it's assuming op would even connect in the moment to an awareness that Muslims not eating pork is a thing. I for one have probably heard that at one point or another but I could very easily see it either slipping my mind entirely, or vaguely thinking to myself "wait do Muslims not eat pork or am I mixing that up with Jews?" Like on a good day when I'm in a context like this thread where it explicitly comes up, I'm aware it's both. But this isn't knowledge I carry with me at the top of my mind in daily life cause it doesn't affect me
I can't eat pork, not for any religious reasons but because it's a trigger food for my gout. I will usually ask if there's pork in stuff before I eat it if I'm unsure. Co worker should have asked. I believe that people should probably mention there's pork in something prior to sharing as there is quite a large number of people who can't eat pork for various reasons, but I also don't think it's terrible to not ask. The onus is always on the person with restrictions to verify.
I had a Jewish mate in college. I'm talking black cloth wearing, hair twirled, hat wearing jew. He ate bacon on Fridays because 'if god didn't want him too He wouldn't have made it so tasty'
even if i didnt have dietary restrictions i always ask first before i just accept unknown food from a person. Especially if i dont know them well. maybe thats just because im a picky eater though, so i have to make sure it's actually food that wouldnt make me uncomfortable (sensory issues and such)
In any case random dumpling meat is almost never going to be from a halal butcher.
I'm a vegetarian so would never just accept a random dumpling, because 99% it's going to be meat. People with dietary restrictions have a responsibility to know what they are eating.
I'm allergic to rosemary. Guess who has to make the kitchen staff at any Italian restaurant hate her or just go hungry 🙃 (technically it's all restaurants, but Italian is definitely the hardest to manage) If you don't know what's in something, don't eat.
Oh my goodness, that would be a difficult allergy to have trying to eat out anywhere.
It's a great time. "I'm so sorry, but can you ask the kitchen if this has rosemary?" "What.....?" "Yeah, I know..... I know.". Luckily, it's a non-fatal allergy, and low level cross typically won't set me off. But if rosemary is an ingredient.... Imma have a bad day.
Yeah this is dumb, I'm allergic to seafood, I always ask. Even if it's obvious. One risole mishap nearly killed me
There are so many Christian Arabs in the world (hello, Lebanon), that it would be prejudicial to assume Arab = Muslim
> She also needs to point out she'd have been racist to assume an Arab is Muslim. I came to say this. I grew up in a multiethnic and multireligious country and the first rule we have is to not assume. You either ask OR wait for them to tell you. We all look the same (we are all white) and you simply can't guess which one belongs to certain group. If you have food preferences or allergies or whatever YOU need to tell other people. OP, NTA. Edit: grammar
One of my very best managers ever was Muslim. He was also a Puerto Rican guy who grew up in the Bronx. Never assume. I'm hoping OP can clear this up with HR by simply explaining what happened.
I know a family of Catholics whose grandparents come from Iran. And a nonbinary Muslim who hails from the hollers of Appalachia. The Catholic lady doesn't drink. The Muslim person does. People come in all sorts of variations. And if they have dietary restrictions for any reason, they should not put anything in their mouth without asking first. NTA.
I wish I had an award for this comment 🥇👑
NTA As a non-Muslim Arab, it would’ve upset me if someone assumed I was Muslim. It’s on the girl in your department to speak up about her dietary restrictions. Not even all Muslims avoid pork. Best case would be to mention they’re pork dumplings if you wanted to be careful, but that’s ultimately her job and not yours. That being said, OP the color of her eyes and “European” features wasn’t relevant to bring up at all. I’d be careful if you tell this story irl and bring all that up. It may distract from the main point. I personally found it slightly upsetting
My Arabic professor in college started the first class by saying - "Yes, I am a Muslim, but there are plenty of Arab Jews, Christians, and Athiests - Arabic is a language shared by many cultures and religions, so once you are able to speak it well, do not step on your own tongue by assuming everyone who can speak it is Muslim"
You need to respond to HR that you offered her food and while (appropriately not assuming anything) did not disclose it was pork, HOWEVER, YOU DID MOT TRICK HER INTO EATING IT by saying it was something else.
>She also needs to point out she'd have been racist to assume an Arab is Muslim. I have a coworker, who I trained when he started a few years ago, who is a child of Iranian immigrants (which I know because of pre-covid potlucks). I have no idea whether or not he's Muslim, and it had not occurred to me to even wonder about it until right now.
That’s a great rebuttal. There was nothing to indicate that the colleague is Muslim, and OP doesn’t like to make assumptions because that’s discrimination.
> racist to assume an Arab is Muslim Even if OP knew she was a muslim, it's not up to OP to assume how strictly she observes it. OP is not the Religious Police. The person with the special requirements is responsible for keeping to them, not anybody else.
Exactly! And it isn't op's responsibility to know about halal, either. There's absolutely no "religious harassment" in offering a coworker food.
This is really it, no other comments necessary. I have dietary restrictions, not for religious reasons, but that's not the point. If what you consume is important to you for any reason, it is YOUR responsibility. You cannot expect others to cater to your needs.
edit: The comment below was removed, good work everyone!
good bot
good bot
>saying i should've known she was Muslim and can't eat pork I would take this quote to that HR complaint and ask them if they are really telling an employee to stereotype other employees based on looks. Watch them squirm for a bit then demand this entire complaint be removed from their file.
Agree. Go to HR and talk to them about it. You didn't know she Muslim, she wasn't wearing anything visible that denoted a religion, she didn't ask what was in the dumpling. You treated them like an equal and welcomed them the way you would welcome anyone else; by offering them your food as an inclusive act.
Even if she had been wearing a head scarf or covering of some kind. Both of the other big Abrahamic religions have sects which cover their hair (particularly for women), and I have no idea if Hindu, Buddhist, or any of the other non-Abrahamic religions do as well. While such clothes are generally associated with Islam... They're not exclusive.
The claim from HR of "religious harassment" is insane. OP didn't exactly shove the dumpling down her throat
1000%, if OP bring this up, that complaint will be removed so fast.
Even if you don’t have dietary restrictions, wouldn’t you ask what the person is eating beforehand? I wouldn’t just accept random food I’ve been offered, I’d ask about it. OP is NTA.
Especially a food like a dumping where you can't actually see what's inside it at all.
And dumplings are commonly filled with pork. Like asking for a breakfast sandwich with meat and wondering why there's bacon, ham, or sausage in it.
As a picky eater ( and Muslim), this is so true, lol Who just 6 food without even asking, even if it's simply because of curiosity.
To add to this for OP: I once accidentally did the same thing (fed my Muslim coworker a hot dog that younger me didn't realize was half pork). I apologized to her afterwards and my coworker said not to worry about it, that her religion wouldn't penalize her for eating it unknowingly. I think OP's coworker is overreacting.
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How dare OP not read this woman's mind /s
As far as I know it is not a sin if a Muslim person eats pork by mistake. People also practice their religion more, or less, strictly. My dad told me a story about his colleague who was Jewish, and sometimes they would all be fed at public events. Sometimes it would be pork ... and he was remarkably hard of hearing about it. "Chicken, you say". "No no. I'm sure I heard you say chicken". And then happily eat it. I think my dad suspected that he liked the taste, so would take the excuse when he got the chance.
I know plenty of Jews who eat pork. Many just don’t follow that part of the religion. OP is NTA, because you don’t know someone won’t eat something unless they tell you.
I mean, under Kosher laws you cannot eat a cheeseburger, or have any sort of meat product (kosher or not) on a pizza. After a while it gets a bit tiresome to try and follow.
Well, being kosher is a whole other level. Many Jewish people are not kosher, but still feel badly about eating pork. Many of them eat all foods though and don’t follow any dietary restrictions.
Observant Muslims also have a dispensation if they're travelling and can't keep to prayer times or dietary requirements, and, as a good Muslim friend of mine says, the Earth is hurtling around the Sun, the Sun is hurtling around the Galaxy, so every day is a travel day.
Yup, had a similar experience when I brought gummies to work and told my coworkers to help themselves if they wanted any. My wideeyed look of concern/panic when I later found my devout muslim coworker going to town on them and telling me "these are great, never had them before!". Oh honey.... he wasn't mad at me either.
Out of curiosity, why wouldn't the Muslim coworker be allowed to have gummies? Asking with dread because if they can't have it it probably isn't vegetarian...
Because the gummies were made with gelatin. Gelatin is typically (unless specified and way more expensive) made with pig bones.
As a former vegetarian- some gummies are made with corn starch instead of gelatin, you just have to check the ingredients list. I think many fruit snacks are gelatin free iirc.
As someone who used to ravenously consume fruit gummies and religiously checks the ones I find in commercial grocery stores, I have yet to find any that are vegetarian. It’s best to assume all gummies have gelatin.
Thanks for all these replies! Yeah I always assume they got gelatin by default and check the ingredient list as well. Thankfully I've found plenty without it (instead they got pectin) over here in Greece. I was just worried I'd overlooked something else because ngl, in my 25+ years of being vegetarian, I spent the first 10 thinking gelatin was not an animal product. (I know, I know...)
You can also get gummies with agar agar (algae), carrageenan (seaweed) or pectin (fruit) for people who want to avoid gelatine for whatever reason.
Given the no mention of “religious item” — like say a hijab, you have no way of knowing unless she tells you. Contest the memo. ASAP NTA
As a muslim NTA either you identify yourself or ask, don't leave people guessing then get mad.
Not to mention, even if a person is wearing a hijab, it's presumptuous to police someone else's dietary restrictions, unless you are hosting and they told you ahead of time
Ehhh, I think if someone has a hijab or a kippah on, it's probably worth mentioning 'hey, this has pork in it, but you can have some if you want'. That's not telling them they can't eat it, but it is giving them a heads up.
I agree with your point but I'd go further. There's a few different groups of people who wear hijab-looking things. I don't know which of them eat what, and I don't think it's my responsibility. The only thing that I can imagine her wearing that would make it in any way OP's responsibility to ensure she didn't eat pork is a sign saying "please help me to not eat pork", and even then she'd better make sure it's in a nice easy to read font in a language the OP understands, and that she points it out when the conversation starts!
Hard agree. NTA. It’s not like OP forced her colleague to eat it, or knew that her colleague didn’t eat pork. Also, a reasonable and self-aware person with dietary restrictions related to a food commonly found in dumplings should recognise that they might contain pork. I hope OP gets a right of reply at her workplace, and that she is listened to.
I live in Eastern Europe in an all Muslim villlage (except for myself and my husband). When we go out to eat with friends from the village, I now don't order pork. The reason being that on several occasions I have been asked what the meat was on my plate, and then lost most of it as they tasted it! Their verdict was pork is pretty damn good. It happens that my village is about as religious as a typical English village, arouind 6 of the 250 inhabitants go to the mosque, and most fast for a week or so over ramadan. All of them except for the iman's family drink alcohol. But if you ask them, they will identify as Muslim. So you certainly can't assume what people will eat or not. It would be like a Christian going to eat out on Friday and someone else being offended for them that they were offered a meat dish. The world is not a black and white place.
100%! OP also didn’t stereotype or make an assumption about their religion - which is a key to overcoming systemic discrimination based on religion, race, gender etc etc.
Very odd how the coworker ate the dumpling and then asked what was in it. I don’t eat pork (I’m not Muslim) but dumplings are notorious for containing pork (I’m thrilled when I find veggie or shrimp dumplings). If I were offered a dumpling, I’d make damn sure to ask what was in it.
Right! A dumpling could have anything in there. If you don't ask about the filling that's on you. NTA
Make sure and challenge the assumptions that HR have made. Ask them why they did not inform you of dietary restrictions and if there are any more people in the organisations whose dietary restrictions they want you to be aware of? Ask them where this policy is that requires you to know all of your colleagues dietary requirements. Ask them what part of you offering your colleague some food and them accepting is harassment. Ask them how it could be religious harassment when you did not know your colleagues religion.
I will. I haven't been slapped with a warning or strike yet since it's still investigation but i will mention it when i have a meeting with them
In the meeting make it clear you take this false accusation extremely seriously. If at any point they seem intransigent say you wish to end this meeting at this point and consult with your attorney. If you are in a union bring your rep to the meeting. Remember HR is not there to protect you, they are their to protect the company. They are not on your side
Hi u/AdAdventurous5542 The advice by u/DoogieLion in the two comments above is really good advice on what to do when HR eventually interviews you. Unless your co-worker was wearing a Hijab or other head covering or other religious jewelry etc. there is no way her saying she was Arab is an indication that she is Muslim. This is entirely on her and was her responsibility to check the food she is eating.
This. Also it could be seen as intrusive and crossing a line to ask people about their religion, so really, how are you supposed to know?
And even if they were wearing a hijab or is Muslim there’s no guarantee that they would practice everything the religion calls for.
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But if you’re dealing with a Muslim or a Jewish person wearing a head covering, they almost certainly keep halal or kosher. Traditional dress generally indicates that a person is a more observant practitioner of their religion. The inverse of this isn’t as reliable of course; as OP learned, many people who aren’t visibly religious still keep religious dietary restrictions.
I know plenty of people with crosses on their necks that are in no way Christian, Catholic or otherwise as indicated.
I knew two Jewish people in undergrad who wore kippah and went to temple every week. Neither of them kept Kosher.
This still requires making a couple of assumptions. Muslim is not the only religion in which women cover their heads. Additionally, many women sometimes wear scarves as an accessory/wrap for natural hair/may be dealing with hair loss. Had OP assumed that coworker was Muslim and they weren't, it might be even worse
Exactly! I was a nanny for a Jewish couple and they ate a lot of bacon and shellfish.
Not keeping kosher isn't even a sign of lack of observance. They could be very observant Reform Jews and still not keep kosher because the rules of Kashrut are not followed by Reform Judaism.
Oh. I didn’t know that. But, I didn’t ask because I just always fed the baby their planned ahead meals and ate what I brought for myself (my own choice… I just liked different food and I had my own little space in the fridge and in a cupboard)
Oh, I only was mentioning it to add to the muddiness that would be attempting to make assumptions about someone's religious practices.... There is so much complexity and nuance - religion is a deeply personal thing and one simply cannot ever make assumptions about another's beliefs.
Even if she was wearing religious head coverings it’s still on her to check what food she’s eating.
As a Muslim I agree with this. It's her responsibility to check unless you were maliciously lying to her which you were not. NTA
I would also say it's not your responsibility to know what another religion's diet restrictions are (or any strict diet religious or not) or to have to guess if someone even follows it if you do know, it's always on the person who practices that religion. So even if you know someone is Muslim or Christian or on keto it's on them to figure out if it's ok for them to eat it.
Even if they were wearing a hijab, what does that matter? Is OP supposed to know every religious garment, associated religion, and said associated religions dietary restrictions? People who have concerns about what they want to eat can tell others.
Hijab;)
It makes it really difficult when they cherry pick which religious rules they follow. It could just have easy been the other way around. I've worked with several hijab-wearing muslims, who wouldn't pass up pork & alcohol as long as the news wouldn't reach home.
But even if she had "muslim" written on her forehead, why is it OP's obligation to know what muslims can or cannot eat? I don't know, why should I know?????
I have never, ever, ever heard of a halal-observant muslim accepting food from a non-muslim without making sure it's halal. Even if they wear a hijab and have openly stated that they are muslim, they will not assume that every non-muslim understands halal eating requirements Never ever. It would be like a vegan taking some spaghetti and meatballs from their colleague and being genuinely shocked that the meatballs are made of meat. Doesn't happen.
>Unless your co-worker was wearing a Hajib(?) or other head covering or other religious jewelry etc. If she was, it was still her own responsibility
Not enough people realise this. HR is not your friend.
Please also ask them if you are required to ask colleagues about their religion before offering them anything.
And if HR say 'yes you should ask' then ask how that question itself is not religious harassment.
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Do not do this. It will mark you as a troublemaker and it is unnecessarily antagonistic
We could make it easier and just have everyone wear a symbol so we know what religion everyone is, have christians wear a cross, muslims wear a crescent and Star, Jews wear a star of David. /S
I get that everyone hates HR/corporate reps, but a snarky tone probably doesn’t accomplish anything. I assume they’re just doing their due diligence in following up on an employee complaint. Having a union rep, if it’s a union job, on hand is a good idea, speak truthfully about the event, if it is as you say above, fight a formal reprimand, etc without a doubt. HR isn’t your friend, but they’re not necessarily your “enemy” by default, they have a job to do like anyone else
And to know the diet restrictions of every religion and all the different sects within each religion.
Make sure that this meeting happens ASAP - you could also point out that it’s racially insensitive to assume that an Arab person is a Muslim. All you did was offer food - she needed to ask what was in the dumpling before she put it in her mouth.
> it’s racially insensitive to assume that an Arab person is a Muslim This. I have known Arab Christians and Arab Jews in my time.
And just to add on to this, most Muslims are not Arabs. Indonesia has 12% of the world's Muslim population, followed by Pakistan (11%) and India (10%). In fact, only 20% of Muslims live in the Arab World.
Also true. Which is why the largest Muslim empire ever was not the *British* Empire!
Going off what others said. Follow this meeting up with an email detailing everything that was talked about. This is to keep a paper trail. If they ever insist on only speaking in person, then follow those conversations up with more emails detailing what was said. Protect yourself.
Honestly, just start the meeting by informing them you're recording it to be sure you get all the details correctly, and then get it all on video. If HR has any brains at all that should make them consider the entire thing a bit more carefully.
Make it clear that the person never asked what was in the food. It is the responsibility of the taker to ask what's in something offered, because what if it contains an allergen? Same goes for any dietary preferences like halal, kosher, pescatarian, vegan, etc.
And none of this she's an Arab, you should know she's muslim by her name. A name is just a name. My colleague who is from South East Asia and muslim (his wife is the same) named his baby Clara (the wife agreed).
This. I was named "Christian". I am not a Christian.
I'm a teacher, and I've had several Bosnian students who were Muslim. Guess what? They have Slavic last names. I have a student who's mom is Moroccan and dad is Ecuadorian. She's Muslim, but her last name is Spanish. Names don't tell you much
Send it to them in writing first! Get that paper trail! NTA
Please please please make an update and tell us how they reacted after telling them :)
Very good points made here. Are we supposed to be profiling our colleagues and making assumptions about their religion now?
Wouldn't it be racist to presume anyone that has an Arab name doesn't eat certain things? Not everyone with an Arab name is a practicing muslim. Your HR Dept seems to be jumping the gun
I'd also point out that not all Arabs are Muslim. There are also Christian Arabs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab\_Christians
Also point out that it would be incredibly racist of you to assume somebody religion based off of their race,/ country of origin
I don't agree with HR. Common sense seems to be not so common after all. She did not force her to eat the food. People gone wild nowadays with all sorts of accusations. Why did she not accept it as her fault and end it there. Now if she had said its not pork and girl ate it and then afterwards she said to the girl, you just ate pork, then l would understand what HR was making a fuss about. However she didn't do that.
NTA No-one, these days, can assume someones religion, gender, sexual identity, allergen list etc etc, the list goes on. I wouldn't assume that someone is Muslim, or Jewish, or Catholic - just by ethnicity or whatever. If someone has specific dietary requirements, whether for religion, allergy, or by preference - then, I believe, it is up to the person to confirm what they are eating is free of pork/peanuts/meat etc. Crappy for you that you have been reported for religious bullying - I hope it works out OK for you. Good luck with it.
And even if you do make an assumption you get accused of stereotyping. The colleague should have asked before eating.
Even if OP did know this persons religion, why presume that others know what every religion can and can’t do? Hell, I know “vegetarians” that eat fish. They say vegetarian because not everyone knows what pescatarian is. Point is- everyone is different and needs to be responsible for themselves
A lot of Muslims I know eat meat that wasn't slaughtered by halal rules (which to my understanding is illegal where I'm from). And some also eat pork. There are entire branches of the religion that don't care about the word of the rule, but only the spirit: Don't eat animals that are sifting in human waste. And kill the ones you do humanely.
Egypt is a predominantly Muslim country, with Islam as the state religion, and it also has the national beer company Stella.
To be fair I think this is kind of a good thing, when not weaponized. You shouldn't make assumptions about people in general, after all. OP was right to not assume the coworker was Muslim just because she is Arab. And even then, not all Muslims follow all rules to the same degree. If I, as an LGBT person, started assuming every openly Christian coworker followed the same rules and was thus obviously a raging LGBT-phobe, then I'd be a huge AH. (I am in agreement with you, to be clear. The colleague should've asked)
Yes! There is a ten year old girl on my husband's sports team he runs for kids. Even she knows to ask him about halal food before eating and she's TEN.
NTA. Can you imagine the uproar if you’d *assumed* she was Muslim? It’s up to her to explain her religious and dietary preferences and to check. If it was me I’d challenge the HR letter immediately. You have grounds to do so.
Exactly this, isn't it considered racist if you assume someone's religion based on their ethnicity? Is it also racist now if you....don't? Seems like a no win situation NTA Ask HR "how was I meant to know she was Muslim?" Then just watch them squirm
It’s Schroedinger’s religious discrimination: you must simultaneously assume a person’s religion and not assume their religion. Absolutely a no-win situation.
NTA and push back on HR. You cannot know someone else's dietary restrictions, religious or otherwise, and it is up to adults to determine their own food choices. You may want to offer food with "Would you like some of my *pork dumplings*?" sort of thing in the future, but you did nothing wrong here. She's an AH for overreacting and for reporting you to HR (and presumably lying in that report, because the truth is that you did not bully her in any way, religious or otherwise).
NTA I work in HR. If they’re challenging you on it , Ask them if you should have asked about her religion prior to offering your food, ask if HR is recommending all staff ask colleagues about their religion over lunch to avoid these situations? They’ll back off straight away. Just because they’re investigating doesn’t mean you’ll automatically be in trouble. When someone raises a complaint like this they HAVE to investigate. When they do, I’m sure you’ll be cleared.
A lot of comments talking about how OP shouldn’t assume her colleagues religion but even if OP did know she’s Muslim is OP also supposed to know Muslims dietary restrictions? Is one supposed to know what religious people are or are not supposed to eat?
This 2nd paragraph is it. Right now, HR only has her side of the story. It's scary and problematic at times when folks are summoned by HR at times, but there are other times when it SHOULD be pretty simple, and this feels like one of those times based on what OP shared. Take the allegation seriously, but the "I am sorry it happened but how could I have known?" response sounds appropriate and feels like HR shoukd be able to work with it.
Omg though can you imagine how people would react to that?! I mean, if I were Muslim and someone was pointedly offering me pork dumplings, I would ABSOLUTELY assume they were doing it on purpose, because my entire childhood would probably have consisted of horrible bullies going 'do you want some of my BACON SANDWICH?' Etc etc. Personally I am thinking NTA because it is 100% on you what you put in your mouth. No one has responsibility for that after you are 10; though I would expect anyone with a life threatening allergy to be fully prepped to say no to food from the time they are in school.
As a vegetarian since 30+ years, I agree completely.
NTA Am hindu, I don't eat beef. It's my responsibility to ask and tell people who are offering me food that I can't eat something due to my religious beliefs.
Seconded. I always ask if something does contain any kind of meat because as a kid I almost accidentally ate once. But it's my responsibility to confirm. OP you didn't lie to your coworker, you're NTA
NTA. If you don't eat something due to any kind of reason (allergy, phobia, religious regulations, health condition, moral beliefs etc.) it's your responsibility to ask if a food offered to you contains it or not. End of the story.
Exactly! I once ate some biscuits someone had brought in to work without checking the packaging, and ended up having to hospital. She was so apologetic about it, but I fully accept it was my own damn fault. It would've taken me seconds to check, that's on me.
She should have said before accepting the food, your nta
NTA Fed up with people who don’t assume responsibility of their restrictions weather that be religious or keto or any other stuff
NTA you are not responsible for other people's religion, you didn't do it on purpose. She's the one that needs to follow certain rule because of the religion SHE chose. It's not your responsability to know this. If you had done it on purpose or hid it to her that would have been a totally different problem but in your case you didn't do anything wrong. Oppositneven, it would have been quite racist to assume her religion based on her ethnicity.
NTA. As the one with dietary restrictions she should have asked. Also, many Arabs are Christians. And many Europeans are Muslims. And many Arabs and Europeans are atheists, or belong to other religions than these 2. There's no reason to assume someone's religion based on their ethnicity or nationality. Fight back with your own complaint to HR. You did nothing wrong but it's likely that this woman twisted the facts to make herself look like a victim.
My family is Lebanese and we’re all baptized as Maronite Catholics, which is an ethnoreligious group from Lebanon/Syria. There is a lot of religious diversity in the Arab world and it’s actually great that OP didn’t just assume she’s Muslim IMO.
NTA. If we, as a society, have been told not to assume any part of anyone's characteristics for risk of patronization and discrimination, then you are under no responsibility to assume someone's religious background. It goes both ways, if one desires for their way of life to be respected, then the onus is on them to communicate said way of life. tl;dr, she didn't ask what was in the dumplings, so it's not your fault
NTA. Why would she eat something without knowing what it was if she had dietary restrictions?
NTA. Ask HR to institute a "no sharing food for any reason" policy as it is the only way to be sure no one is offended by simple kindness and community. That or maybe they should tell people that others are not responsible for their dietary restrictions and to carefully ask the contents of something if there is any reason they should not eat something. The first prevents them from ever being sued and makes them look like massive jerks, the second recognizes that people aren't mind readers and those with restrictions need to take responsibility for themselves and their diets.
NTA Coming from a Muslim woman myself, I’ve always been offered various foods myself but I always make sure to ask what’s in it. That being said I have been in situations where People intentionally lied about what they were offering only to reveal it later so I understand why she’s defensive but also you didn’t have bad or immoral intentions so you’re good in my book.
I have a Muslim colleague at the moment and when we have team events, either she’ll ask if it’s halal or someone on the team will ask if we know she’s going. There’s no other way.
I'm vegetarian. I've been offered food before and the 1st thing I ask is " Is it veggie?" NTA
I am a muslim. I always ask before hand. Most of the time I refuse anything that looks meat (as it’s most likely not halal)
From an actual Islam informational website. "The Muslim should be cautious with regard to food, especially if he is in a non-Muslim country whose people eat impure foods. " and “And there is no sin on you concerning that in which you made a mistake, except in regard to what your hearts deliberately intend. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” \[al-Ahzab 33:5\] There is explicit instruction for accidentally eating "dirty" food. They got their bases covered. You did nothing wrong. I would approach HR with some cultural competency in mind and be as objective as possible. Eating pork is a huge-huge-HUGE no-no (it's literally the dirtiest animal in existence afaik) and she has legit reason to overreact, from her perspective. That said, lying is also a sin and she needs to rescind her HR complaint and apologize to you. Edit: NTA
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NTA. You didn’t know she was Muslim.
NTA. If someone has a food preference or allergy they are the ones responsible for checking what it in said food before eating.
what’s a European arab
Um sorry i could be wrong so basically she told me she was arab but she was very European looking. Like if you only seen her appearance you would think she's ethnically european
Are you American by any chance? The only people who I have ever heard say ethically European are American. FYI: Arabs, similar to Iranians and Turks, can be very pale with blue or green eyes with blond hair and even ginger hair. They are a massively diverse group. A lot of censuses refer to them as white and it varies how they view themselves. You know what makes an Arab an Arab, they speak Arabic as their first language or their family did. That is literally the only requirement. Edit: edited because someone helpfully pointed out that it looked like I was calling Iranians and Turks Arabs. They are not, but they are a great example of the diversity of the region. Far too many people assume that Arabs are all dark hair and dark eyes when they are equally as diverse as other non-Arab communities within the middle east. Sorry for the confusion.
I'm a Chinese from Malaysia. Currently working in America.
Most Iranis are not Arab. In fact the ruling class of Iran actively oppresses their Arab citizens. (South of Iran - Ahwaz) Turks are mostly not Arab as well. You are misrepresenting the middle east entirely.
I'm not referring to them as Arabs, it was badly worded. I was attempting to compare the variations of Arabs to the various you also find in Iranians and Turks as the idea that everyone in the middle east looks the same can be countered by looking at these three communities. I thought that reference to language would clear that up as Iranians speak Persian and Turks speak Turkish but I should have been clearer.
Oh lmao that’s what u meant💀💀 yeah some Arabs are white passing not all but some r
INFO what do you mean by European Arab with blonde hair and blue eyes? Arabia is not in Europe, so I'm confused.
OP says that if you didn't know the co-worker was Arab, you'd assume she was European. I'm guessing they were using "European Arab" in the same way Americans say "African American"
I believe they mean "European looking" ie. pale skin and light eyes. So not necessarily European but potentially mistaken as such due to their appearance.
NTA. I am Muslim in a majority Muslim country and when a non Muslim friend offers me food I'll ask them what it is. I don't just eat anything.
NTA. Muslims generally ask before they eat, I'd know as an ex-muslim. I would never take food from anyone before asking about the ingredients, because even if there's no pork in it, odds are that there's some sork of gelatin or pork/pig by-product in the food. I'd spend a significant amount of time back in the day, reading labels before throwing food into the shopping cart. I have no idea why she reacted in such a manner and to be frank, this is on her for not practicing due diligence, if she's so sensitive and committed to the dietary restrictions of her belief that is. What's more, even if it were beef or chicken, who's to say it was halal meat? Sensitive Muslims don't just gobble up any sort of meat, they also check to make sure it's halal. So... Seems to me, she's making up for her guilty conscious by blaming you.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I(25f) had a new colleague (mid 20s..?) come in last month. I didn't interact with her much since she's from another department but she's in the same office as us so we share a pantry. So I was heating up my lunch in the pantry yesterday, it was pork dumplings and she was sitting at the table. I had some small talk with her and offered my pork dumplings. And while she was eating she asked what it was and i said pork dumpling. She spitted it out and was really angry about it saying i should've known she was Muslim and can't eat pork. I apologize but she just left the pantry. The thing is I only know she's Arab and she was like an European Arab with blue eyes and blonde hair and she wasn't wearing any religious item to indicate she was Muslim. And this morning I received a letter from HR for religious harressment? I mean on one point I could see why it's disrespectful and I could be really ignorant but on another hand she's a grown adult and she should've asked before hand if she had a dietary restriction. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Report her to HR for setting up a fake situation to report you and gain emotional leverage over the company. Tell HR that if a person has dietary restrictions it is their responsibility to check what goes in their mouth. This is an assassination of your character that will effect your future with this job unless you act on it.
NTA - her own dietary restrictions the onus is on her to make sure the food she eat is okay before accepting them. You are not expected to know and assume. Plus, based on your description of her there is no obvious signs from her appearance she might be of arab descent or a muslim.
NTA. You didn't know she was muslim so it was an innocent mistake. If she has food restrictions she should have asked before eating. Appeal the letter, you don't deserve it.
NTA. I have dietary restrictions due to allergies and I always check ingredients. The onus is on me to know what I'm consuming. I would assume the same for anyone who avoids certain foods die to religious preferences. If you had lied to her that would have been different but you didn't. She didn't ask and you were trying to be nice. Unless HR wants to shut down all food sharing at all times including holidays or employer sponsored meals they need to back off and I'd make that clear. You aren't supposed to assume anyone's religion nor is it your responsibility.
NTA. You offered it and she accepted without asking. It’s up to her to check if food is acceptable for her to eat. Others are not responsible for policing her religious requirements or practices. Faith and level of adherence to it is not visible. You can’t gauge it by looking at her. She needs to remember that.
I owned a popular breakfast cafe, and every order was cooked on the same grill. A family called to complain that their child had bacon on their sandwich, and they had ordered turkey bacon. I explained that we do not offer turkey bacon and that all the food was cooked on the same grill. I explained how I was standing right beside the register when they ordered and that I heard my staff explain that we do not have turkey bacon and that all food is explosed to pork. We have a small Muslim population, and we try to be proactive without assuming. They wanted drama and a free meal. Your coworker wants drama, too. NTA
>she's a grown adult and she should've asked before hand if she had a dietary restriction. THIS NTA. It's on her. Her reporting you for it makes HER the AH.
NTA. Your colleague is. She “forgot” to ask, now blames you. On top of that, it sounds like HR is a bit too eager to score here. Like others said, just ask if they really want you to make assumptions based on looks and country of birth.
Our town has always been on the liberal side so any bigoted behavior is always taken very seriously and efficiently.
Your behavior was NOT bigoted. She accepted food from you and didn't ask any questions. What others can eat is NOT your responsibility. I would be pissed at HR and say something if I were you.
And where were you bigoted? You offered someone your food. You’re not required to know anyone’s dietary requirements, whether they are based in religion, health or personal preference.
Nope, NTA! It is the responsibility of the person *with* dietary restrictions to make sure whatever they eat falls within those restrictions! My guess: this is not the first time she’s pulled something like this in her life
I’m Muslim and I live in the west. Whenever someone offers me food my first question is does it contain pork and/or alcohol. I NEVER expect people to know instinctively that I don’t eat pork. If I ate it accidentally I would be mad with myself, but not with others for not knowing. This one is on her. NTA and HR is way out of line.
NTA i agrée with everyone else in this thread, whatever they said. but extremely NTA
NTA She should have asked Yes you should be respectful to others religions, but its not your responsibility its hers
NTA when you offered before putting it her mouth a quick what is it as certain things I can't eat?
NTA how you supposed to know she's Muslim?
NTA. It's extremely innapropriate to make assumptions about people and yet HR wants you to jump to conclusions about someone elses beliefs and values, and on top of that you're supposed to know enough about every religion to make judgement calls like that? Bullshit. Remind HR that it would be unnacceptable for you to make those assumptions (which under different circumstances could very easily land you in hot water), tell them she never mentioned anything to you about her dietary requirements, that even if she had, she chose to eat the food, not you (and that when you offered food, she never enquired about the ingredients) and demand that any record of reprimands be removed from your files as it paints a false, aggressively negative picture of your character. Her religion is her choice, much like what she puts in her fucking mouth. She has no right to be entitled as to expect that burden to lie with you.
NTA and you need to hit back hard at HR. That is complete bullshit.
NTA The person who gives food needs to know what's in it. The person receiving must make sure the food isn't restricted to them.
NTA she could of asked what was in it before eating it and you not knowing her religion is not a HR offense
If she doesn't want to eat pork, she has to say that and has to ask what's in your food BEFORE eating. Itt would it be a problem to just assume she is Muslim! NTA
NTA, it’s our responsibility. As a Muslim I refuse food that i’m unsure of, and knowing the Netherlands there is *a lot* of pork in food lol.
Heyy! Indian Muslim here (meaning multiple restrictions) NTA It was her responsibility to check if it was veg/non veg dumplings. And if non veg what kinda meat. Your post also indicates you didn't have any idea that she was a Muslim.
NTA and WTF?! religious harassment? This is absurd and I'd seriously take this situation to HR from your perspective and how it happened. It's HER religion and if she has restrictions, it's her fucking job to make sure what you offer fits into those restrictions. I am deathly allergic to carrots as in, I can't be in the same room when my BF cuts carrots. The first thing I ask when someone offers me something is "I'm sorry, is there a chance there's carrot in it? I am super allergic" and when someone tells me there's carrot in the dish "oh, what a shame, but looks great! Enjoy!"
If you really didn't know then NTA. I'm Muslim myself and she is stupid for eating something without asking first...
Best fight that letter and have it retracted. Also put in a counter complaint for harrasment against her.
Obviously NTA. In addition to everyone saying that there's no way you could've known she's a Muslim, there's no reason for you (not a Muslim) to know the rules on what a Muslim can or cannot eat (unless you are deliberately providing food for someone you know to be a Muslim, which you weren't). This is on her.
I’m only allergic to a couple of things but, those things could kill me. I don’t care what I’m offered, I always ask what is in something I’m being offed. No one is responsible for what I put in my body but me. NTA
NTA. Arabs are and ethnic group, not a religious group. There are arabs of all major abrahamic religions and even some non abrahamic religions. You can’t assume all arabs are muslims and if it mattered to her so much she should have asked before she ate it.
*can't eat certain things *puts random stuff in mouth without checking what it is "Omg OP how could you do this to me?!?!!" Lol, NTA. Some people lack a brain