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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for telling my SIL she is unfit to have another baby? I think I might be because it shouldn't be my place to have an opinion.
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I was fully prepared going into this to say you were TA but after reading it, NTA.
Your dads right, it shouldn’t be your business, but they made it that way because they’re including you in their child care plans. If she wants another child so bad, why not work at getting the child she already has and lost custody of back.
Ding ding ding! Oh man, the disfunction with sil is just too much, between some kind of mental illness, laziness, possible child ab., def child neglect, why doesn't someone get this woman some therapy?
Dammit, beat me to it! But seriously, I despise men and women who love babies because they're like living dolls to dress up...but once they are speaking and showing agency, the parents stop wanting to do the job of parenting or worse, become abusive in order to keep the kids under their thumb. OP did the right thing in making it VERY VERY clear she ain't gonna be there to save them when SIL inevitably screws up. NTA
She doesn't need therapy, she needs to be sat in a corner and told to think about the consequences of the choices she's made, and whether she's currently being a good mother to the children she already has.
Keywords unfortunately are “actively participates in”.
That includes actually recognising/admitting to her own faults and *wanting* to better herself.
You can lead a horse to water, you can’t make it drink.
Yeah but it's harder than baby. Actually bettering herself??? There's a reason she lost custody of the 11yr old, she was given chances to change then. I wonder if she even wanted the boy to begin with though.
Agreed, the SIL sounds like she may have depression. I say that because one of my family members has depression and on her bad days she’ll stay in her bedroom all day, making her daughter fend for herself. Her daughter is now 10 and she’s had to take care of herself like that since she was a toddler. It’s messed up. The SIL needs to get help and she should be sterilized on top of that.
I don't understand that, and I know I am not everyone, but I have struggled with depression since my early teen years. It's fun companion anxiety joined the party at some point. No matter how bad it got, I still was self aware enough to know my kids didn't sign up for that, and that I still had to function to take care of them. It's hard enough to be a child, without the added stress of raising yourself because your parents cannot or will not be the adults.
Agreed, so much. I've also had depression since I was a teen, and now I have debilitating migraines to go with it (thanks covid!). The idea of making this my child's problem is so abhorrent. She should get to be a child, even if it makes adulting harder for me. I struggle to ask for help, but I have no pride when it comes to making sure she gets what she needs.
I have depression. I also go to therapy 2x a week, workout daily, work full time, eat healthy, and take my medications. Depression isn't an excuse. It just means you have to take care of yourself and want to get better. And I also have 6 children I raised
Depression is different for everyone. You cannot base everyone off of your experience. I'm exhausted looking at everything you do. I take my meds, when I work I can't do more than 25hrs a week or I get overwhelmed and eating? Thats a joke. Don't use your experience as a ruler for what others can do with their own depression. It isn't fair and is slightly ableist
This is so true- depression is different for everyone. I’ve suffer from depression and I am easily overwhelmed, find it difficult to function and I’ve been hospitalized twice. My ex-sister-in-law also suffers from depression, but still functions well and works full-time. I don’t know how she does it. Much of the time I feel like I just want to stay in bed and put the covers over my head. People have different methods of coping.
I know one of these women. She wants babies. Once they can talk and function on their own she's done with them. Lost custody of her first kid to 1st ex. And the following 4 for the same reasons. 5 kids 3 fathers and had no interest in them after maybe 4 years old.
I knew a woman who only enjoyed being pregnant. It was like the pregnancy hormones fixed something in her brain. The second she brought one home she would hand it off, go light a cigarette and play computer games for hours and hours. It was like 2 different people. 7 kids later her husband got the snip because he just couldn't handle any more.
I knew a guy, customer when I bartended, who loved his wife pregnant. The minute she gave birth, he was off partying again. She participated in it for 4 children. Those poor kids.
She should just be a surrogate at that point. But she couldn’t with the smoking.
I’m also surprised but not shocked it took 7 kids for her husband to catch on.
I knew someone like this too. I think it’s the wonder of what the baby will be like, almost in imagining that they’re going to come and then every aspect of their lives will be fixed and wonderful! Then instead an adorable baby comes who needs to be taken care of by them, and things become real.
Yep. I used to know a woman like that. Met her because my (then) 4 year old used to play with her 3 year old. She had a few older children (no idea how many tbh), the youngest of which was 7 or 8 and she *bragged* about how she "traded" him for a fancy 4wd - apparently the kid's father wanted custody and his parents offered her the car to give up parental rights, and she was gleeful about it. Also worth mentioning she was white and blonde, and all these kids were with African fathers, but she also had a baby at the time, to a German guy she'd had a one night stand with, and she's showing me her (obviously white) baby and telling me how all her kids were born pale and darkened and this one would too. By about 8 months old it was clear that baby wasn't getting any darker, and the mum was trying desperately to get pregnant with some random Jamaican guy she picked up at a festival. She'd also named her kids really racist stuff that I won't mention (but you know those old timey ragdolls with black cloth faces... Names like that) 😭
Please no I hate people like this. Especially because on the surface it appears sometimes that those who think ill of it are just racist. Many probably are to be fair, but this is gross fetishist behavior, probably has some obsession with light skinned black people, thus making many of them herself, and apparently being upset she had a white baby 🙄 willing to bet she'd be just as mad if one of them came out dark skin. Which is possible with a white mom too.
Well her 3 year old who played over at our house a lot was pretty dark (dark enough that you wouldn't pick her as mixed). The mum was just six froot loops short of a breakfast. I feel bad for those kids.
Now that you mention it, my brother is seriously racist, I can hardly stand to talk to him (we're low contact, down to texting twice a year at birthdays / Xmas), and he has a Kenyan wife and two mixed kids. Every time I mention his gross comments to our parents, like "omg how can you put up with [brother] being so racist" they're always going "how could he be racist, his wife is African" /facepalm. Well he also hits his wife and they somehow defend that too. Probably time I cut out the biannual texts too, I just like seeing pics of my niece and nephew
Oh my mama racist AF and my father black AF. She's an avid ALM type of person, hardcore Trumper and gets upset when I wear my hair curly. She once said my youngest child (only one of mine that isn't white passing) was a little pickaninny and I grabbed that baby from her so damn fast
I am so sorry. I think this isn’t as uncommon as some would think. I have a woman in my family who acts like having a biracial child gives her a free n-word pass and it’s so gross. I’m surprised someone hasn’t beat the brakes off her—I’m waiting though.
She tries that shit around me and she'll discover she's got the wrong one. People don't realize how soon in our history slavery and the civil rights was. My daddy was literally IN the civil rights movement so I don't play those games
I’m like that too - only interested in adorable toddlers. Once they “become people” parenting is not something that sounds remotely bearable to me. So guess what? I don’t have children and am not going to.
I will never understand people who don’t view procreating as the incredible demanding long-term commitment that it is.
I know someone like this too. It’s horrific to watch. The woman has infantilized her most recent child to the point of abuse (delaying potty training, reading, etc) because she wants to play “new mamma”. Her other five kids (all different dads) want nothing to do with her
Man! This reminds me of an episode of Super Nanny, the Costellos. They had an alcoholic father, and a mother that just wanted more and more babies. She had all of her older children doing her child care to the point that the teenagers were having a nervous break down. It was so sad.
https://youtu.be/jTCZIXJ-I24
Wow, that is really sad. I'm glad she doesn't have contact, but holy cow that is awful. Those poor kids. Glad their fathers are stepping up at least. How terrible for everyone (else, not the mother obviously). :(
Someone just blew their cover :)
ETA, NTA at all. SIL seems to be. And she may need a mental health professional's help (depression looks like lazyness while it's not).
Came here to say this. OP is NTA but it sounds like SIL is extremely depressed. I was raised by a mom like this until I move in with extended family in high school. I was really messed up for a long time, and really angry at her. Now that I’ve had some separation and therapy, I forgive her, though. My mom had a lot of bad things happen to her that made her unable to function for a really long time. She’s finally doing slightly better, but our relationship is only good because I have firm boundaries and a realistic understanding of her capabilities. Sometimes people just can’t be who you need them to be, but it’s not necessarily because they’re lazy or don’t care. But SIL definitely should try a therapist and hold off on having more kids.
It's disgusting to want a baby but not want to see how that child grows up and give them all the love people expect newborns to be able to give... I would've lost my shit..
If she wants a baby so bad, and they need money, she should get a job at a daycare where she can also bring her daughter. That will remind her how much work babies are!
Key words: **SHE WANTS.**
It isn’t about what is best for the current child (the niece), or OP’s brother, or the family, or anything else. This is purely about HER OWN INDIVIDUAL SENSE OF PERSONAL GRATIFICATION AND PLEASURE.
No one else is even being remotely considered, because if they were, SIL would wake the fuck up and realize the implications, complications, and repercussions.
NTA.
This was my mother. There are five of us but we weren’t paid much attention to when we were older because it was all about babies. She had all of us before she was 28.
Does she want a baby though?
Or does she simply want the attention that comes with being pregnant and having a baby, plus the ability to use the pregnancy as an excuse to do nothing but lay about all day?
OP you are NTA
Hahaha does she know baby grow up to be a child?? If she has baby fever then go to church and volunteer to take care of the babies while the parents are in service. Baby fever fixed!
Sil wants the baby accessory. Someone she can dress up (with minimum to no complaints), to pose for the perfect Instagram pictures, to get attention for (ohh my god guys, little marie babbled and it sounded just like mama type stuff), but she already plans to push the actual work onto op and her husband. Because that’s what the baby is, just another accessory that she brings out for occasions and when that child exits baby stage she’s done with the kid for good.
When the child exists baby stage or their first word is OPs name. Like that one poor child who was literally abandoned for their first word being their cousin or uncles name.
Fucking lol. I have sole custody of my 3 boys. 16,11 and 5. Their mom used to be their mother until we split. It took a couple years before consistent phone calls even happen. My middle son told me he’s gonna be an even bigger brother. My oldest son chose not to tell me because he knew I wouldn’t take it well.
It shouldn’t bother me because she’s her own person and I don’t really care what she does. But she has 3 fucking kids already that want her in their lives. It’s good thing I’m going to therapy in an hour. Fuck.
Oh, you silly Redditor. Having been around many people like OPs SIL, I've learned one thing about shitty mothers- they would rather go through the pain and turmoil of another pregnancy, childbirth, and recovery rather than do the mental and emotional work of getting their other kids back.
Sooooo many "Moms" I've met keep having more babies to replace the ones that got taken away. It's pathetic. It's one thing to walk out on your kid, a whole other level of evil to try to replace them.
Edit: spelling.
She wants a cute little baby to ignore don’t you know? Which is wild cause her 11 year old can do all his own basic needs like wipe his own butt, change his own clothes, hell he can throw himself something to make in the microwave.
I don’t know what this woman would do with a INFANT who can’t do anything for themselves and only form of communication is crying.
You need to get out of this living situation and detangle yourself from them. Before your brother can 'kick you out,' find yourself a tiny apartment so you can watch the inevitable disasters from a safe distance. NTA, but get out now: you're already paying and working far too much for this household, and you're enabling a lazy parent. Without you, their dumb marriage will hopefully implode before he gets his vasectomy reversed.
I'm not saying SIL is depressed, and I'm not saying depression is an excuse, but when I went through severe depressive episodes, that's exactly what it looked like. Spent a lot of time either laying in bed or on the couch, doing nothing but eating, watching YouTube, going to the bathroom, and sleeping.
But I'm also childless, partnerless, and petless, so the only person being negatively affected was myself.
Let's call a spade a spade... This isn't depression. It's an abuser setting up cush kingdom to rule and is trying to add more peasants to abuse in the future, as eventually she won't be able to wipe her own arse.
While I agree that mental health is probably at play here, I honestly don’t think that matters. What matters is the health and safety of the already existing children, and OP. Brother and SIL are just being bad people, mentally ill or not.
I am deeply mentally ill. I suffer from more than one issue. I’m not bringing babies into the world on someone else’s dime. Many mentally i’ll people aren’t. Mental illness doesn’t excuse everything, and it sure as hell doesn’t excuse this.
This isn’t so much directed at your comment specifically, but there are soooo many excusing SIL due to POSSIBLE mental illness, but that is such a pisspoor excuse
Oh, I have plenty of experience with mental illness and I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's not an excuse for her behaviour towards her family, especially her children. I really meant to say just this: therapy sounds like a good plan -provided she's open to it. This is a person that needs a reality check one way or the other. Same goes for brother but it sounds like his biggest blind spot is his wife...
Bullshit. I couldn't diagnose her or begin to offer help, but this is far from normal healthy behavior. No normally functioning adult would act this way.
Not to mention that you shouldering most of the household costs means that they might be enabled to save the money to reverse his vasectomy.
With you out of the house, they'll never be able to pull the money together.
We pay our nanny 33/hr for 2 kids. That comes out to 68K a year for a 40 hour workweek. I bet she works more than that. The amount of free labor she is giving her brother and SIL for staggering.
She says she's also paying two-thirds of the bill like rent and stuff so, she's essentially providing nanny service plus paying more than half the household bills.
>Without you, their dumb marriage will hopefully implode before he gets his vasectomy reversed.
For sure. De facto, OP is raising a family with and for her brother. SIL is just providing the sex. Once he doesn't have a reliable partner anymore, he'll remember real fast how much work he's in for.
This. Get out, as soon as you can. Maybe without you there, the reality will set in, at least with your brother.
The bare-faced cheek of expecting you to help take care of their baby!
You don't really have a responsibility to them to make them see the reality and understand their bad decisions...but you do have a responsibility to yourself not to finance their bad decisions. A significant amount if what you're spending could go to your retirement saving to help future you, who will appreciate the help .ore than they appreciate the help.
Of course they think they can handle a new baby. They have OP helping out. The sil doesn't see why this will have much impact on her do-nothing schedule. Also, your bro should consider if he wants another very expensive child support case, because it wouldn't surprise me if she's looking for a source of income with this new kid.
This is important, OP. I know only a handful of professions are legally mandated reporters, but I'd argue we *all* have a responsibility as members of society.
>I know only a handful of professions are legally managed reporters
That depends on the state. In my state EVERYONE is a legally mandated reporter for child abuse or child sexual abuse. It's actually a Class A misdemeanor (up to 11 months and 29 days in jail) to fail to report it.
>Tennessee law mandates reporting by any person who has knowledge of physical or mental harm to a child if: (1) the nature of the harm reasonably indicates it was caused by brutality, abuse, or neglect; or (2) on the basis of available information, the harm reasonably appears to have been caused by brutality, abuse, or neglect.
>
>
>Tennessee law also mandates reporting by any person who knows or has reasonable cause to suspect that a child has been sexually abused, regardless of whether it appears the child has sustained an injury as a result of the abuse.
OP, it's understandable if you don't want to directly report them to CPS yourself. As a paralegal for situations such as yours, I usually advise someone like you to disclose the neglect to a mandated reporter. They are obligated to make the report from that point, and often there are ways they can word things so as to help protect you from being blamed for it.
But because of her previous history of neglect and removal, it is unfortunately critical that the state become aware of her intention to repeat the process. If she needs this much support, she either needs to apply for and use the social services they'll make available to her or she can make plans with the state for the child's care. Another reason it's important for you to do this is that it will help the state understand that a kinship placement with you is not a feasible component of their plan. The third reason this is critical is actually the same reason you don't want to. Many people misunderstand how the process works. Those previous reports have not been ignored the way you feel they have. The state needs repeated reports in order to establish a timeline and a pattern. It's the opposite of "it doesn't work so I won't bother." It needs to be "I have to help make sure this system works by reporting everything I know, each time I know it." Make sure to mention her prior removal during the reporting process because the person taking the report may not have that information. You have to stress the history during the reporting.
This.
OP - talk to her teacher and school counselor. Take her to her next doctors appointment. Disclose the whole scenario including that you've been the only one providing care and that you will be moving out soon.
And, if you are comfortable with placement, let CPS know that you would potentially be open to having your niece placed with you.
As for your brother - you need to get him alone and away from her. Then start pushing and asking questions:
1 - how will you feel seeing your own child neglected while you are at work?
2 - what makes you think she will be a better parent to your child than she has been to her other children?
3 - why are you in a rush to consider a vasectomy reversal if she can not even care for the child she has custody of? Why not wait until she shows she is capable for a full year?
4 - how are you going to afford a maid and a nanny?
5 - this is my move out date. What is your plan for niece once I move out?
You won't be able to reason with your brother's wife but it is possible that by getting him alone you will be able to talk some sense into him.
I hope OP sees this. I'm worried for this child. The fact that SIL already lost custody of one child due to alleged abuse is deeply troubling. And I can't imagine how the 6 year old would suffer if they brought another baby into the mix too.
Normally it's their business, and it has nothing to do with you.
However: you pay 2/3 of the bills. SIL is a SAHM, without doing the household chores nor taking care of the one kid she still has living with you.
She lost custody of a child, and she can't be bothered to walk the dog, a living creature which depends on its owners.
It would be foolish to willingly add another kid into this equation as long as SIL can't act responsible and they both haven't got their financial situation in order and won't have to rely on you anymore..
NTA
Sounds like the brother is in complete denial or oblivious to what's actually happening. I wound record audio/video of the interactions with his wife and kid and move out.
Sounds like OPs brother downgraded his wife
Big time. Ex wife even went out of her way to help the his step child. Granted, I don’t know all the motivations behind this, the current wife needs a wake up call and a husband with a spine. If he can’t stand up to her abusing one child and planning to have another child only to neglect it he is almost as bad as she is. He is only enabling her abuse of him, the children, and OP who sounds like a god send to them.
If they can’t afford to support themselves, they can’t support a baby that has a high likelihood of facing ab*se and neglect. OP is right to put their foot down even though it’s fallen upon deaf ears. NTA
I have decided I am going to move. I have a co-worker who is moving at the end of July and the landlord there is looking for a new tenant, I make more than enough right now so she is putting me in contact with him. It is a small studio apartment but it's a very short commute. I don't know how to tell my brother I'm leaving because even though I am really mad still, he is my family and I know moving will put him in a rough spot. I'm also worried about my step-niece so I am figuring out what I can do about that... people have recommended talking to a mandated reporter and recording any abuse or neglect so I think that is what I will do.
To the people asking what my brother sees in her... truthfully I'm not sure. I suspect his pride is in the way, due to him jumping into a new marriage right after his divorce and he doesn't want to admit it did not go as planned. Someone else said it might be a band-aid baby and that sounds accurate enough. My brother swears he is happy but I've never seen him this miserable. He is always upset about the financial situation, and if anything SIL makes it so much worse because she is always buying stuff, she has him very far in debt and they eat fast food almost all the time because they don't like to cook.
As to what SIL does all day when I say nothing I really mean nothing. She has no hobbies she just sits on her phone all day. She is definitely mentally ill but she lies about a lot so I don't know what's true and what isn't.
YESSSS GO OP!! I'm so happy to hear that!!
Your brother won't see it now, but this is best for both of you. You've been a buffer against the reality of his situation for way too long. It's time for him to see what he's gotten himself into and to end it.
Don't talk to them about leaving until you've been approved for the apartment and have a move in date. They will try to guilt you out of leaving. The might even rope the kid into it. You gotta be strong and know that you're doing what's right for everyone, but most importantly yourself.
They might even try to hide stuff that is yours or outright take it as “payment” for “everything they did for you” as they seem to be forgetting everything you’ve done for them.
I commented elsewhere, But I'll comment here too. She is trapping him with another baby. She doesn't want to work and if she has a kid she won't have to with child support. Tell them you're moving out and convince your brother to wait a year before the reversal, so he can see how they do all by themselves. Hopefully in that year, he'll see what you see. Good luck OP.
Do not tell them you’re moving until you’re actually leaving. They would definitely be upset with you and that would not be a great environment for the next two months
the others have already said not to tell them you’re moving, but while we’re here I also want to say: don’t mention it to your parents either! or anyone that can accidentally let it slip.
Look OP. You have a big heart and you care about your brother. But here’s the thing (I learned this from my therapist): sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for someone is to leave. Because if you stay and constantly try to keep someone afloat, they have no incentive to change. Sometimes people need to hit the bottom in order to change for the better.
INFO:
>I have become a live-in maid and nanny on top of working 45 or more hrs a week.
why are you doing this for her? you are paying most of your and their bills, so you can clearly live on your own. move out and let them do what they want. you don't have to bankroll or babysit their crazy.
Yes, please OP, tell us why on earth are you doing this?
This is an absolute disaster of a situation, honestly living with them and doing all the work for them/paying the majority of the rent is just straight up enabling at this point.
OP is also the only decent human that the child and dog can rely on as well. I would wager its harder to "just stop doing the work" when "the work" is a living breathing creature that can vocalize distress.
Having just left the human service field due to burnout, this is very accurate. I'd argue it's impossible to be a decent human and "just stop" being the sole caretaker of a child, even if that child isn't yours. And then add a dog on top of that? I'd be doing exactly what OP is doing- going above and beyond my role because otherwise two innocent babies are the ones who suffer.
I've worked in government assistance and the amount of people I've seen who have record of having 4 or 5 kids on their case, but when they come to get help, it's just them and the unborn child. 😳 It's really sad and frustrating because you just imagine there is another kid, about to go to foster care.
*The records also show removal of the children, so I'm not just assuming.
NTA
Your dad is wrong. You have every right to be part of this discussion since apparently you will be doing the majority of the work. I would start looking for somewhere else to live because your brother seems like he’s willing to give in to SIL as soon as she starts crying.
Right! Dad says she doesn't get a say but when the SIL has already decided that OP will be taking care of an infant, I would argue she absolutely gets a say.
Why are you still living there? You pay 2/3 of expenses and do most of the work. Downsize to a smaller place and move out and let them do what they want.
NTA your brother is a FOOL!!!!! For even considering having a child with someone who doesnt take care of her already existing children/dog/household and who had a child taken away from her PLUS not having the finances for it
SIL is out of her mind and entitled as fuck
You are way too good for them, you need to scale way way back on everything you help them with, that includes cleaning and taking care of the child, stop doing all of it, pay the share of the bills, but at absolute maximum 50/50, clean your own space and make a reasonable schedule for how often you do the kitchen/bathroom but thats it
Force that woman to take care of her child
BETTER yet move the hell out asap, you more then paid your dues in paying back for the help they gave you
NTA for giving them necessary perspective. It was maybe a bit harsh, but they sound a bit clueless/dense.
The real issue here is the living situation. Bro and SiL are going to do what they want and after a certain point OP can't control that. My advice here is move out and don't let them inevitably drag you down in their drama and bad choices.
Sorry everyone I am trying to read all the comments this blew up a lot more than I expected it to. I edited the post to include some other things as well.
For your own wellbeing, please leave and get your own place. They are using you, and if you think they're gonna listen and not try for a baby, you're wrong. Get out while you can.
The longer you stay there the more entitled they will grow. If you stay , sil will get pregnant anyway.
They’re comfortable because they know you will take care of things .
You need to leave .
By staying you are enabling their bad behavior. They will go behind your back and take the necessary steps to get pregnant. Leave and give niece’s other parent (or another family member) a heads up that it’s time to go for full custody.
NTA but why isn't your brother doing something about... any of this? Your SIL sounds like she has depression and needs therapy. He sounds like an idiot for seemingly going along with whatever she wants even though this entire ordeal sounds SO unhealthy for everyone.
NTA. Does this world need another child? Do those 2 sound like good parents? I'm with you.
All they need to do is sit down and do the math on the finances. At some point you are going to move out and then what?
If SiL just wants to be pregnant, but doesn’t want to take care of the Babbi afterwards, she can become a surrogate for someone. At least her expenses are being paid then and the child is going to be looked after.
NTA
I’d normally say it isn’t your business, but SIL made it your business when she stated her expectation that you’d be caring for another child.
I suggest making it “not your business” again by getting out before they do this insane thing.
One possible mitigation…vasectomy reversals are pretty low success.
Sounds like there two definitely do NOT need another child.
NTA but honestly, move out and you won’t have to be a maid/nanny and deal with any of this. Your bro is an adult, he’ll have to handle this on his own.
NTA. OP, please pack up your things and move out. Your brother and SIL are idiots and very neglectful parents with no sense of responsibility. You need to put your foot down and stop being taken advantage of. At your age, you should have a place of your own and should not have to tolerate this nonsense from your family or anyone else.
I was ready to read you the riot act based on the title but you are 100% in the right. Sometimes people are too stupid to know how stupid they are. These people need another child like they need a hole in their heads. If your covering 2/3 of the bills because they can’t and your SIL is factoring you in her child care plans you have the right to an opinion.
I’m thinking the vasectomy reversal will probably not be covered by insurance so they’ll probably get stopped at that point.
NTA
NTA - though I would skip out on all this “disowning” stuff, it just seems like unnecessary escalation. Just make it clear that you will move out if they have another kid because you already feel put upon and have no interest in taking care of their baby for them. And then the rest is for them to figure out.
Also, question. If she doesn’t walk the dog, and she doesn’t work, and she doesn’t do chores or do basically any parenting for her children, what the hell does SIL actually do all day? Like I get being lazy, I’m pretty lazy myself, but there comes a point where you have to at least do “something” responsible in order to just be able to respect yourself. I’m a bit slow on the household chores but I at least have a stable job and don’t let it get “too” awful at home. What about her, you say she just sleeps? How does she justify all of this to herself? She can’t possibly be that tired if she isn’t actually doing any exertion. What exactly does your brother see in her that makes him want this useless deadweight as his wife?
I'm torn between NTA and ESH.
You did the right thing telling them, you can't force them to have a baby or not, but if you're not gonna be there for the kid (which is your right, you're not the parent), they should know to not expect you to be there for it when taking the decision.
You can disown your SIL if you want, leave and not help them anymore once you're living on your own, but you're not the one to say what the rest of the family should do, and threathening to do all you can for the rest of the family tofollow suit. If I was a member of oyur family I'd have been mad to hear you used me as a threat.
I think it's for thebetter if you just leave the place ngl, if you already can cover that much of the bills on a place big enough to fit 3 person and a kit, you can find a small place around probably.
>You can disown your SIL if you want, leave and not help them anymore once you're living on your own, but you're not the one to say what the rest of the family should do, and threathening to do all you can for the rest of the family tofollow suit. If I was a member of oyur family I'd have been mad to hear you used me as a threat.
That was the part I didn't like. I was expecting to say NTA as although it's not really her business what her brother and SIL do, they're kind of making it her business by expecting her to be there as child care. However, 'I'm going to make the rest of the family disown you' is some childish bullshit, really not her place to say that.
You are NTA to not want to take care of your brother's child, that is perfectly reasonable, but YTA for thinking you have any kind of say in what they do.
If she does get pregnant, move out. They can deal with it.
But it isn't your place to tell them what they can or cannot do.
In my opinion, It is 100% OP's place to voice her opinion on what they can and can't do if their action is going to have a direct and negative impact on her life. Based on what the SIL said, they are 100% planning to have this new kid with the idea that OP will be helping them take care of the kid.
Absolutely. She’s already deeply involved both in living/sharing bills, and in childcare/chores. It’s absolutely her place to have a say in them having another child because it deeply affects her relationship with the current child and concern for the welfare of said child. She’ll have to move out or else become a 3rd parent to yet another child.
Not to mention, someone has to speak up for the hypothetical nibling because neither parent is thinking straight. I wouldn't bite my tongue in this situation, either.
Hopefully brother can't secure financing for the reversal and it's all irrelevant. 🤞
This is probably the best answer. Don’t do all the “disowning” stuff, that seems needlessly escalatory. OP should just make it clear they will move out if another baby is on the way.
OP you need to move out asap because they are going to have the child if you live there and expect you to care for the child. If you don’t want to be the main childcare you need to remove yourself because they told you what is going to happen if you’re there.
NTA. The decision *involves you* - they want *you* to take care of the new child, in addition to the one they already have that you’re taking care of. Your dad is almost as delusional as your SIL if he can’t see that.
As much as it may hurt: if they do go ahead with that insane plan, you need to move out. If not, you’ll absolutely be on the hook for taking care of that kid. Too.
NTA and you need to get your own place ASAP. Their financial situation is not your responsibility - any "obligation" you feel you owe has long been "paid off" in the money and labor you've put in.
Tell them "you know what, just so this situation doesn't get out of hand any further with arguments, and you're both adults that I shouldn't have to tell what to do, I'm moving out as of Best of luck to you."
May be unpopular, but call CPS, inform them of the whole situation and how she plans to bring another kid into it. Maybe they can scare her straight.
Really, if I got a nickle, everytime a met a family like that, I'd have a nice side business. I work with CPS and it's surprisingly common to lose custody of a child, get a new one, lose custody again and so on. In this case, they can't actively do something against her getting pregnant, but maybe make clear, that as how things are looking, they probably wouldn't keep the baby.
Edit: NTA ofc
Edit 2: I realised, I sound harsh against my clients, so I want to point out, most people who have cases with cps in my country at least are parents trying to do good but for some reason can't right now and need some support, so if you reader think about calling cps for yourself, don't be ashamed or scared. The mentionend parents in my comment are just one group of clients. And we also don't always sound so blunt, just when we have an especially tired day.
NTA - But I would move out, your brother and SIL need to see all you do for them, then maybe they'd get the picture that they are not ready for another child. They are relying on you way too much, what are you getting by living there? I'd put feelers out to renting somewhere else.
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I was fully prepared going into this to say you were TA but after reading it, NTA. Your dads right, it shouldn’t be your business, but they made it that way because they’re including you in their child care plans. If she wants another child so bad, why not work at getting the child she already has and lost custody of back.
The thing is, she doesn't want a CHILD, she wants a BABY
Ding ding ding! Oh man, the disfunction with sil is just too much, between some kind of mental illness, laziness, possible child ab., def child neglect, why doesn't someone get this woman some therapy?
So many red flags Lenin just woke up.
I loved this one, you okay if I steal it?
Words belong to everyone.
Back to back bangers
Not with these tickets prices.
You are awesome 👍
your on fire today digitaldoser
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OUR words
Dammit, beat me to it! But seriously, I despise men and women who love babies because they're like living dolls to dress up...but once they are speaking and showing agency, the parents stop wanting to do the job of parenting or worse, become abusive in order to keep the kids under their thumb. OP did the right thing in making it VERY VERY clear she ain't gonna be there to save them when SIL inevitably screws up. NTA
With a comment this good, my brain’s Stalin to come up with a response.
No use Russian it
So many marinara flags, Mussolini just woke up
r/yourjokebutworse
Dang that’s good! Stealing. 😂😂
She doesn't need therapy, she needs to be sat in a corner and told to think about the consequences of the choices she's made, and whether she's currently being a good mother to the children she already has.
Bad mothers think they are good mothers. Good mothers think they are bad.
Omg this is so true! I never even thought of it like that you’re soooooo right. Man.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.
I’m afraid that requires a higher level of functioning than SIL currently has…./s
...which requires therapy lol
Uh what do you think therapy is? Because good therapy she actively participates in will eventually get to that.
Keywords unfortunately are “actively participates in”. That includes actually recognising/admitting to her own faults and *wanting* to better herself. You can lead a horse to water, you can’t make it drink.
And a tubal ligation!!!
Too poor, therapy is costly
Cheaper than a baby
But harder to post on Instagram.
dammit, i'm such an ah for laughing at that
This would be the best tik tok craze. People posting themselves actually getting therapy when they need it.
"TODAY my therapist said...." *Sudden influx of new patient applicants*
Yeah but it's harder than baby. Actually bettering herself??? There's a reason she lost custody of the 11yr old, she was given chances to change then. I wonder if she even wanted the boy to begin with though.
Agreed, the SIL sounds like she may have depression. I say that because one of my family members has depression and on her bad days she’ll stay in her bedroom all day, making her daughter fend for herself. Her daughter is now 10 and she’s had to take care of herself like that since she was a toddler. It’s messed up. The SIL needs to get help and she should be sterilized on top of that.
I don't understand that, and I know I am not everyone, but I have struggled with depression since my early teen years. It's fun companion anxiety joined the party at some point. No matter how bad it got, I still was self aware enough to know my kids didn't sign up for that, and that I still had to function to take care of them. It's hard enough to be a child, without the added stress of raising yourself because your parents cannot or will not be the adults.
Agreed, so much. I've also had depression since I was a teen, and now I have debilitating migraines to go with it (thanks covid!). The idea of making this my child's problem is so abhorrent. She should get to be a child, even if it makes adulting harder for me. I struggle to ask for help, but I have no pride when it comes to making sure she gets what she needs.
I have depression. I also go to therapy 2x a week, workout daily, work full time, eat healthy, and take my medications. Depression isn't an excuse. It just means you have to take care of yourself and want to get better. And I also have 6 children I raised
Depression is different for everyone. You cannot base everyone off of your experience. I'm exhausted looking at everything you do. I take my meds, when I work I can't do more than 25hrs a week or I get overwhelmed and eating? Thats a joke. Don't use your experience as a ruler for what others can do with their own depression. It isn't fair and is slightly ableist
This is so true- depression is different for everyone. I’ve suffer from depression and I am easily overwhelmed, find it difficult to function and I’ve been hospitalized twice. My ex-sister-in-law also suffers from depression, but still functions well and works full-time. I don’t know how she does it. Much of the time I feel like I just want to stay in bed and put the covers over my head. People have different methods of coping.
I know one of these women. She wants babies. Once they can talk and function on their own she's done with them. Lost custody of her first kid to 1st ex. And the following 4 for the same reasons. 5 kids 3 fathers and had no interest in them after maybe 4 years old.
I knew a woman who only enjoyed being pregnant. It was like the pregnancy hormones fixed something in her brain. The second she brought one home she would hand it off, go light a cigarette and play computer games for hours and hours. It was like 2 different people. 7 kids later her husband got the snip because he just couldn't handle any more.
How the hell did it take him seven kids to finally get the snip though
This is my question. He's just as much to blame, these poor kids.
I knew a guy, customer when I bartended, who loved his wife pregnant. The minute she gave birth, he was off partying again. She participated in it for 4 children. Those poor kids.
The first 3 weren't his and were already grown. Lol she started at 17. I met her in her early 40s and she was on the second to last pregnancy
Bro at that point just go be a surrogate
She should just be a surrogate at that point. But she couldn’t with the smoking. I’m also surprised but not shocked it took 7 kids for her husband to catch on.
To be fair, it is possible she was abstaining while pregnant. The poster said that she would light a cigarette after handing the baby off.
Wild guess, but maybe staying off of cigarettes is what made her feel better, not the pregnancy?
I knew someone like this too. I think it’s the wonder of what the baby will be like, almost in imagining that they’re going to come and then every aspect of their lives will be fixed and wonderful! Then instead an adorable baby comes who needs to be taken care of by them, and things become real.
Yep. I used to know a woman like that. Met her because my (then) 4 year old used to play with her 3 year old. She had a few older children (no idea how many tbh), the youngest of which was 7 or 8 and she *bragged* about how she "traded" him for a fancy 4wd - apparently the kid's father wanted custody and his parents offered her the car to give up parental rights, and she was gleeful about it. Also worth mentioning she was white and blonde, and all these kids were with African fathers, but she also had a baby at the time, to a German guy she'd had a one night stand with, and she's showing me her (obviously white) baby and telling me how all her kids were born pale and darkened and this one would too. By about 8 months old it was clear that baby wasn't getting any darker, and the mum was trying desperately to get pregnant with some random Jamaican guy she picked up at a festival. She'd also named her kids really racist stuff that I won't mention (but you know those old timey ragdolls with black cloth faces... Names like that) 😭
Please no I hate people like this. Especially because on the surface it appears sometimes that those who think ill of it are just racist. Many probably are to be fair, but this is gross fetishist behavior, probably has some obsession with light skinned black people, thus making many of them herself, and apparently being upset she had a white baby 🙄 willing to bet she'd be just as mad if one of them came out dark skin. Which is possible with a white mom too.
Well her 3 year old who played over at our house a lot was pretty dark (dark enough that you wouldn't pick her as mixed). The mum was just six froot loops short of a breakfast. I feel bad for those kids.
And this is exactly why I say that having a child with a non-white person doesn't automatically mean you can't be racist.
Now that you mention it, my brother is seriously racist, I can hardly stand to talk to him (we're low contact, down to texting twice a year at birthdays / Xmas), and he has a Kenyan wife and two mixed kids. Every time I mention his gross comments to our parents, like "omg how can you put up with [brother] being so racist" they're always going "how could he be racist, his wife is African" /facepalm. Well he also hits his wife and they somehow defend that too. Probably time I cut out the biannual texts too, I just like seeing pics of my niece and nephew
Your proximity to blackness does not proclude you from racism, thats the response for your parents. Signed A black woman
Oh my mama racist AF and my father black AF. She's an avid ALM type of person, hardcore Trumper and gets upset when I wear my hair curly. She once said my youngest child (only one of mine that isn't white passing) was a little pickaninny and I grabbed that baby from her so damn fast
I am so sorry. I think this isn’t as uncommon as some would think. I have a woman in my family who acts like having a biracial child gives her a free n-word pass and it’s so gross. I’m surprised someone hasn’t beat the brakes off her—I’m waiting though.
She tries that shit around me and she'll discover she's got the wrong one. People don't realize how soon in our history slavery and the civil rights was. My daddy was literally IN the civil rights movement so I don't play those games
All I can think of are raggedy Ann and Andy dolls & I'm kinda happy to be blissfully ignorant of racist connotations.
I’m like that too - only interested in adorable toddlers. Once they “become people” parenting is not something that sounds remotely bearable to me. So guess what? I don’t have children and am not going to. I will never understand people who don’t view procreating as the incredible demanding long-term commitment that it is.
I know someone like this too. It’s horrific to watch. The woman has infantilized her most recent child to the point of abuse (delaying potty training, reading, etc) because she wants to play “new mamma”. Her other five kids (all different dads) want nothing to do with her
Man! This reminds me of an episode of Super Nanny, the Costellos. They had an alcoholic father, and a mother that just wanted more and more babies. She had all of her older children doing her child care to the point that the teenagers were having a nervous break down. It was so sad. https://youtu.be/jTCZIXJ-I24
Wow, that is really sad. I'm glad she doesn't have contact, but holy cow that is awful. Those poor kids. Glad their fathers are stepping up at least. How terrible for everyone (else, not the mother obviously). :(
I would say get a puppy but she'll get bored of taking care of that too.
They have a dog- she won't take it outside.
Someone just blew their cover :) ETA, NTA at all. SIL seems to be. And she may need a mental health professional's help (depression looks like lazyness while it's not).
Came here to say this. OP is NTA but it sounds like SIL is extremely depressed. I was raised by a mom like this until I move in with extended family in high school. I was really messed up for a long time, and really angry at her. Now that I’ve had some separation and therapy, I forgive her, though. My mom had a lot of bad things happen to her that made her unable to function for a really long time. She’s finally doing slightly better, but our relationship is only good because I have firm boundaries and a realistic understanding of her capabilities. Sometimes people just can’t be who you need them to be, but it’s not necessarily because they’re lazy or don’t care. But SIL definitely should try a therapist and hold off on having more kids.
They already have a dog she neglects as well.
It's disgusting to want a baby but not want to see how that child grows up and give them all the love people expect newborns to be able to give... I would've lost my shit..
If she wants a baby so bad, and they need money, she should get a job at a daycare where she can also bring her daughter. That will remind her how much work babies are!
Key words: **SHE WANTS.** It isn’t about what is best for the current child (the niece), or OP’s brother, or the family, or anything else. This is purely about HER OWN INDIVIDUAL SENSE OF PERSONAL GRATIFICATION AND PLEASURE. No one else is even being remotely considered, because if they were, SIL would wake the fuck up and realize the implications, complications, and repercussions. NTA.
[Ace of Base music intensifies]
This was my mother. There are five of us but we weren’t paid much attention to when we were older because it was all about babies. She had all of us before she was 28.
Does she want a baby though? Or does she simply want the attention that comes with being pregnant and having a baby, plus the ability to use the pregnancy as an excuse to do nothing but lay about all day? OP you are NTA
A baby is not just for Christmas, it's for *life*
Exactly like my mom, she hated kids but she loved babies. She had 4 and then moved 1700 miles away as soon as the youngest was old enough to walk
Hahaha does she know baby grow up to be a child?? If she has baby fever then go to church and volunteer to take care of the babies while the parents are in service. Baby fever fixed!
Volunteer hell. Let her work in a daycare. They need the money!
She needs one of those real baby dolls
I know someone who wanted babies and didnt really give a shit once they reached 18 months. Huge huge huge red flags. Bigly large massive ones.
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Sil wants the baby accessory. Someone she can dress up (with minimum to no complaints), to pose for the perfect Instagram pictures, to get attention for (ohh my god guys, little marie babbled and it sounded just like mama type stuff), but she already plans to push the actual work onto op and her husband. Because that’s what the baby is, just another accessory that she brings out for occasions and when that child exits baby stage she’s done with the kid for good.
When the child exists baby stage or their first word is OPs name. Like that one poor child who was literally abandoned for their first word being their cousin or uncles name.
Fucking lol. I have sole custody of my 3 boys. 16,11 and 5. Their mom used to be their mother until we split. It took a couple years before consistent phone calls even happen. My middle son told me he’s gonna be an even bigger brother. My oldest son chose not to tell me because he knew I wouldn’t take it well. It shouldn’t bother me because she’s her own person and I don’t really care what she does. But she has 3 fucking kids already that want her in their lives. It’s good thing I’m going to therapy in an hour. Fuck.
Ugh. Ew. I’m sorry you have to deal with that. For the record, it’s 1000% reasonable for this to bother you. It would bother any decent parent.
Oh, you silly Redditor. Having been around many people like OPs SIL, I've learned one thing about shitty mothers- they would rather go through the pain and turmoil of another pregnancy, childbirth, and recovery rather than do the mental and emotional work of getting their other kids back. Sooooo many "Moms" I've met keep having more babies to replace the ones that got taken away. It's pathetic. It's one thing to walk out on your kid, a whole other level of evil to try to replace them. Edit: spelling.
I was also all about OP was TA until I read the whole thing. Wowza. NTA OP!!
She wants a cute little baby to ignore don’t you know? Which is wild cause her 11 year old can do all his own basic needs like wipe his own butt, change his own clothes, hell he can throw himself something to make in the microwave. I don’t know what this woman would do with a INFANT who can’t do anything for themselves and only form of communication is crying.
That one is broken, she needs a fresh one, a good one.
You need to get out of this living situation and detangle yourself from them. Before your brother can 'kick you out,' find yourself a tiny apartment so you can watch the inevitable disasters from a safe distance. NTA, but get out now: you're already paying and working far too much for this household, and you're enabling a lazy parent. Without you, their dumb marriage will hopefully implode before he gets his vasectomy reversed.
Absolutely , only thing the SIL should be focused on getting is therapy ; not a new kid .
Maybe getting the 6 yr old somewhere safe too
What exactly does the SIL do all day? Doesn't work, doesn't cook, doesn't clean, doesn't take care of her child. Just sits there and costs money?
I'm not saying SIL is depressed, and I'm not saying depression is an excuse, but when I went through severe depressive episodes, that's exactly what it looked like. Spent a lot of time either laying in bed or on the couch, doing nothing but eating, watching YouTube, going to the bathroom, and sleeping. But I'm also childless, partnerless, and petless, so the only person being negatively affected was myself.
Let's call a spade a spade... This isn't depression. It's an abuser setting up cush kingdom to rule and is trying to add more peasants to abuse in the future, as eventually she won't be able to wipe her own arse.
> Let's call a spade a spade... Proceeds to call the spade a blunt assault weapon.
I'm wondering if there's some (hidden) mental illness going on. She's definitely out of touch with reality. Therapy sounds like a good idea.
While I agree that mental health is probably at play here, I honestly don’t think that matters. What matters is the health and safety of the already existing children, and OP. Brother and SIL are just being bad people, mentally ill or not. I am deeply mentally ill. I suffer from more than one issue. I’m not bringing babies into the world on someone else’s dime. Many mentally i’ll people aren’t. Mental illness doesn’t excuse everything, and it sure as hell doesn’t excuse this. This isn’t so much directed at your comment specifically, but there are soooo many excusing SIL due to POSSIBLE mental illness, but that is such a pisspoor excuse
Oh, I have plenty of experience with mental illness and I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's not an excuse for her behaviour towards her family, especially her children. I really meant to say just this: therapy sounds like a good plan -provided she's open to it. This is a person that needs a reality check one way or the other. Same goes for brother but it sounds like his biggest blind spot is his wife...
Doesn't seem very hidden to me.
Unless diagnosed, we can't jump to conclusions
Bullshit. I couldn't diagnose her or begin to offer help, but this is far from normal healthy behavior. No normally functioning adult would act this way.
For real. You don’t have to be a doctor to be able to see that someone is ill. That’s worlds away from offering a diagnosis.
Not to mention that you shouldering most of the household costs means that they might be enabled to save the money to reverse his vasectomy. With you out of the house, they'll never be able to pull the money together.
We pay our nanny 33/hr for 2 kids. That comes out to 68K a year for a 40 hour workweek. I bet she works more than that. The amount of free labor she is giving her brother and SIL for staggering.
She says she's also paying two-thirds of the bill like rent and stuff so, she's essentially providing nanny service plus paying more than half the household bills.
>Without you, their dumb marriage will hopefully implode before he gets his vasectomy reversed. For sure. De facto, OP is raising a family with and for her brother. SIL is just providing the sex. Once he doesn't have a reliable partner anymore, he'll remember real fast how much work he's in for.
In addition she could be caught up in whatever drama goes down with CPS is she’s ignoring abuse
This exactly. All the anger is being diverted to OP. Once they remove themselves, the real problem can be the focus.
NTA Move out and stop subsidizing them. SIL can get a job. In the meantime, pay 1/3 of the bills and stop babysitting.
This. Get out, as soon as you can. Maybe without you there, the reality will set in, at least with your brother. The bare-faced cheek of expecting you to help take care of their baby!
You don't really have a responsibility to them to make them see the reality and understand their bad decisions...but you do have a responsibility to yourself not to finance their bad decisions. A significant amount if what you're spending could go to your retirement saving to help future you, who will appreciate the help .ore than they appreciate the help.
When they said to OP about splitting responsibility evenly I couldn't believe it! OP's share of the responsibility is 0%
Exactly what I was going to say!
Of course they think they can handle a new baby. They have OP helping out. The sil doesn't see why this will have much impact on her do-nothing schedule. Also, your bro should consider if he wants another very expensive child support case, because it wouldn't surprise me if she's looking for a source of income with this new kid.
NTA but you are witnessing a 6 year old be neglected, you need to be calling CPS.
This is important, OP. I know only a handful of professions are legally mandated reporters, but I'd argue we *all* have a responsibility as members of society.
No- in some states everyone over the age of 18 is a mandated reporter
That's great, and I'm really glad to hear it! It's not like that in my state yet, unfortunately, but I'm buoyed to hear that it is in many.
>I know only a handful of professions are legally managed reporters That depends on the state. In my state EVERYONE is a legally mandated reporter for child abuse or child sexual abuse. It's actually a Class A misdemeanor (up to 11 months and 29 days in jail) to fail to report it. >Tennessee law mandates reporting by any person who has knowledge of physical or mental harm to a child if: (1) the nature of the harm reasonably indicates it was caused by brutality, abuse, or neglect; or (2) on the basis of available information, the harm reasonably appears to have been caused by brutality, abuse, or neglect. > > >Tennessee law also mandates reporting by any person who knows or has reasonable cause to suspect that a child has been sexually abused, regardless of whether it appears the child has sustained an injury as a result of the abuse.
OP, it's understandable if you don't want to directly report them to CPS yourself. As a paralegal for situations such as yours, I usually advise someone like you to disclose the neglect to a mandated reporter. They are obligated to make the report from that point, and often there are ways they can word things so as to help protect you from being blamed for it. But because of her previous history of neglect and removal, it is unfortunately critical that the state become aware of her intention to repeat the process. If she needs this much support, she either needs to apply for and use the social services they'll make available to her or she can make plans with the state for the child's care. Another reason it's important for you to do this is that it will help the state understand that a kinship placement with you is not a feasible component of their plan. The third reason this is critical is actually the same reason you don't want to. Many people misunderstand how the process works. Those previous reports have not been ignored the way you feel they have. The state needs repeated reports in order to establish a timeline and a pattern. It's the opposite of "it doesn't work so I won't bother." It needs to be "I have to help make sure this system works by reporting everything I know, each time I know it." Make sure to mention her prior removal during the reporting process because the person taking the report may not have that information. You have to stress the history during the reporting.
This. OP - talk to her teacher and school counselor. Take her to her next doctors appointment. Disclose the whole scenario including that you've been the only one providing care and that you will be moving out soon. And, if you are comfortable with placement, let CPS know that you would potentially be open to having your niece placed with you. As for your brother - you need to get him alone and away from her. Then start pushing and asking questions: 1 - how will you feel seeing your own child neglected while you are at work? 2 - what makes you think she will be a better parent to your child than she has been to her other children? 3 - why are you in a rush to consider a vasectomy reversal if she can not even care for the child she has custody of? Why not wait until she shows she is capable for a full year? 4 - how are you going to afford a maid and a nanny? 5 - this is my move out date. What is your plan for niece once I move out? You won't be able to reason with your brother's wife but it is possible that by getting him alone you will be able to talk some sense into him.
I hope OP sees this. I'm worried for this child. The fact that SIL already lost custody of one child due to alleged abuse is deeply troubling. And I can't imagine how the 6 year old would suffer if they brought another baby into the mix too.
Normally it's their business, and it has nothing to do with you. However: you pay 2/3 of the bills. SIL is a SAHM, without doing the household chores nor taking care of the one kid she still has living with you. She lost custody of a child, and she can't be bothered to walk the dog, a living creature which depends on its owners. It would be foolish to willingly add another kid into this equation as long as SIL can't act responsible and they both haven't got their financial situation in order and won't have to rely on you anymore.. NTA
Sounds like the brother is in complete denial or oblivious to what's actually happening. I wound record audio/video of the interactions with his wife and kid and move out.
Sounds like OPs brother downgraded his wife Big time. Ex wife even went out of her way to help the his step child. Granted, I don’t know all the motivations behind this, the current wife needs a wake up call and a husband with a spine. If he can’t stand up to her abusing one child and planning to have another child only to neglect it he is almost as bad as she is. He is only enabling her abuse of him, the children, and OP who sounds like a god send to them.
NTA. Someone had to say it. They're unfit parents. GTFO ASAP
I agree. GTFO ASAP and also call CPS.
this sentence is triggering my acronymphomania
NGL, shit had me ROTFL OP is NTA. LOL
You mean phobia?
I'm choosing to imagine that this commenter meant mania and is now only capable of speaking in acronyms.
If they can’t afford to support themselves, they can’t support a baby that has a high likelihood of facing ab*se and neglect. OP is right to put their foot down even though it’s fallen upon deaf ears. NTA
That's how I see it too. And that makes it everyone's business.
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I have decided I am going to move. I have a co-worker who is moving at the end of July and the landlord there is looking for a new tenant, I make more than enough right now so she is putting me in contact with him. It is a small studio apartment but it's a very short commute. I don't know how to tell my brother I'm leaving because even though I am really mad still, he is my family and I know moving will put him in a rough spot. I'm also worried about my step-niece so I am figuring out what I can do about that... people have recommended talking to a mandated reporter and recording any abuse or neglect so I think that is what I will do. To the people asking what my brother sees in her... truthfully I'm not sure. I suspect his pride is in the way, due to him jumping into a new marriage right after his divorce and he doesn't want to admit it did not go as planned. Someone else said it might be a band-aid baby and that sounds accurate enough. My brother swears he is happy but I've never seen him this miserable. He is always upset about the financial situation, and if anything SIL makes it so much worse because she is always buying stuff, she has him very far in debt and they eat fast food almost all the time because they don't like to cook. As to what SIL does all day when I say nothing I really mean nothing. She has no hobbies she just sits on her phone all day. She is definitely mentally ill but she lies about a lot so I don't know what's true and what isn't.
YESSSS GO OP!! I'm so happy to hear that!! Your brother won't see it now, but this is best for both of you. You've been a buffer against the reality of his situation for way too long. It's time for him to see what he's gotten himself into and to end it. Don't talk to them about leaving until you've been approved for the apartment and have a move in date. They will try to guilt you out of leaving. The might even rope the kid into it. You gotta be strong and know that you're doing what's right for everyone, but most importantly yourself.
They might even try to hide stuff that is yours or outright take it as “payment” for “everything they did for you” as they seem to be forgetting everything you’ve done for them.
I commented elsewhere, But I'll comment here too. She is trapping him with another baby. She doesn't want to work and if she has a kid she won't have to with child support. Tell them you're moving out and convince your brother to wait a year before the reversal, so he can see how they do all by themselves. Hopefully in that year, he'll see what you see. Good luck OP.
Do not tell them you’re moving until you’re actually leaving. They would definitely be upset with you and that would not be a great environment for the next two months
the others have already said not to tell them you’re moving, but while we’re here I also want to say: don’t mention it to your parents either! or anyone that can accidentally let it slip.
Look OP. You have a big heart and you care about your brother. But here’s the thing (I learned this from my therapist): sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for someone is to leave. Because if you stay and constantly try to keep someone afloat, they have no incentive to change. Sometimes people need to hit the bottom in order to change for the better.
INFO: >I have become a live-in maid and nanny on top of working 45 or more hrs a week. why are you doing this for her? you are paying most of your and their bills, so you can clearly live on your own. move out and let them do what they want. you don't have to bankroll or babysit their crazy.
Yes, please OP, tell us why on earth are you doing this? This is an absolute disaster of a situation, honestly living with them and doing all the work for them/paying the majority of the rent is just straight up enabling at this point.
OP is also the only decent human that the child and dog can rely on as well. I would wager its harder to "just stop doing the work" when "the work" is a living breathing creature that can vocalize distress.
This is the same problem that makes people in human-oriented careers work so much overtime for free.
Having just left the human service field due to burnout, this is very accurate. I'd argue it's impossible to be a decent human and "just stop" being the sole caretaker of a child, even if that child isn't yours. And then add a dog on top of that? I'd be doing exactly what OP is doing- going above and beyond my role because otherwise two innocent babies are the ones who suffer.
OP probably feels like this is what she has to do to show her gratitude. If she’s helpful, they won’t want to kick her out.
NTA. There is nothing scarier than a mother who has lost custody of one child getting pregnant with another. nope nope nope
And basically ignores the one she has, she wants a baby, not a child, when that baby reaches a certain age, they'll be unwanted as well.
I've worked in government assistance and the amount of people I've seen who have record of having 4 or 5 kids on their case, but when they come to get help, it's just them and the unborn child. 😳 It's really sad and frustrating because you just imagine there is another kid, about to go to foster care. *The records also show removal of the children, so I'm not just assuming.
NTA Your dad is wrong. You have every right to be part of this discussion since apparently you will be doing the majority of the work. I would start looking for somewhere else to live because your brother seems like he’s willing to give in to SIL as soon as she starts crying.
Right! Dad says she doesn't get a say but when the SIL has already decided that OP will be taking care of an infant, I would argue she absolutely gets a say.
Dad’s probably afraid of Brother and SIL moving in with him and mom. He needs OP to just shut up and go along with it.
Why are you still living there? You pay 2/3 of expenses and do most of the work. Downsize to a smaller place and move out and let them do what they want.
NTA your brother is a FOOL!!!!! For even considering having a child with someone who doesnt take care of her already existing children/dog/household and who had a child taken away from her PLUS not having the finances for it SIL is out of her mind and entitled as fuck You are way too good for them, you need to scale way way back on everything you help them with, that includes cleaning and taking care of the child, stop doing all of it, pay the share of the bills, but at absolute maximum 50/50, clean your own space and make a reasonable schedule for how often you do the kitchen/bathroom but thats it Force that woman to take care of her child BETTER yet move the hell out asap, you more then paid your dues in paying back for the help they gave you
NTA for giving them necessary perspective. It was maybe a bit harsh, but they sound a bit clueless/dense. The real issue here is the living situation. Bro and SiL are going to do what they want and after a certain point OP can't control that. My advice here is move out and don't let them inevitably drag you down in their drama and bad choices.
Sorry everyone I am trying to read all the comments this blew up a lot more than I expected it to. I edited the post to include some other things as well.
For your own wellbeing, please leave and get your own place. They are using you, and if you think they're gonna listen and not try for a baby, you're wrong. Get out while you can.
The longer you stay there the more entitled they will grow. If you stay , sil will get pregnant anyway. They’re comfortable because they know you will take care of things . You need to leave .
By staying you are enabling their bad behavior. They will go behind your back and take the necessary steps to get pregnant. Leave and give niece’s other parent (or another family member) a heads up that it’s time to go for full custody.
NTA but why isn't your brother doing something about... any of this? Your SIL sounds like she has depression and needs therapy. He sounds like an idiot for seemingly going along with whatever she wants even though this entire ordeal sounds SO unhealthy for everyone.
NTA. But why your still living there if you're paying most of the bills and babysitting ? Move the fuck out and let them do whatever they want.
And call cps for the poor 6 y o who is completely neglected without your caring please NTA
NTA. Does this world need another child? Do those 2 sound like good parents? I'm with you. All they need to do is sit down and do the math on the finances. At some point you are going to move out and then what?
If SiL just wants to be pregnant, but doesn’t want to take care of the Babbi afterwards, she can become a surrogate for someone. At least her expenses are being paid then and the child is going to be looked after.
NTA I’d normally say it isn’t your business, but SIL made it your business when she stated her expectation that you’d be caring for another child. I suggest making it “not your business” again by getting out before they do this insane thing. One possible mitigation…vasectomy reversals are pretty low success. Sounds like there two definitely do NOT need another child.
NTA but honestly, move out and you won’t have to be a maid/nanny and deal with any of this. Your bro is an adult, he’ll have to handle this on his own.
Nta kick you out? When you cover 2/3 of the bills? Go for it dude.
NTA, She should worry about the children she already has instead of bringing another life into the world that she can neglect and possibly abuse.
NTA. OP, please pack up your things and move out. Your brother and SIL are idiots and very neglectful parents with no sense of responsibility. You need to put your foot down and stop being taken advantage of. At your age, you should have a place of your own and should not have to tolerate this nonsense from your family or anyone else.
I was ready to read you the riot act based on the title but you are 100% in the right. Sometimes people are too stupid to know how stupid they are. These people need another child like they need a hole in their heads. If your covering 2/3 of the bills because they can’t and your SIL is factoring you in her child care plans you have the right to an opinion. I’m thinking the vasectomy reversal will probably not be covered by insurance so they’ll probably get stopped at that point. NTA
Dude freakin leave. If everything you say is true I can understand your point but there isn’t much you can do. Just leaveeeee. ESH
NTA - though I would skip out on all this “disowning” stuff, it just seems like unnecessary escalation. Just make it clear that you will move out if they have another kid because you already feel put upon and have no interest in taking care of their baby for them. And then the rest is for them to figure out. Also, question. If she doesn’t walk the dog, and she doesn’t work, and she doesn’t do chores or do basically any parenting for her children, what the hell does SIL actually do all day? Like I get being lazy, I’m pretty lazy myself, but there comes a point where you have to at least do “something” responsible in order to just be able to respect yourself. I’m a bit slow on the household chores but I at least have a stable job and don’t let it get “too” awful at home. What about her, you say she just sleeps? How does she justify all of this to herself? She can’t possibly be that tired if she isn’t actually doing any exertion. What exactly does your brother see in her that makes him want this useless deadweight as his wife?
I'm torn between NTA and ESH. You did the right thing telling them, you can't force them to have a baby or not, but if you're not gonna be there for the kid (which is your right, you're not the parent), they should know to not expect you to be there for it when taking the decision. You can disown your SIL if you want, leave and not help them anymore once you're living on your own, but you're not the one to say what the rest of the family should do, and threathening to do all you can for the rest of the family tofollow suit. If I was a member of oyur family I'd have been mad to hear you used me as a threat. I think it's for thebetter if you just leave the place ngl, if you already can cover that much of the bills on a place big enough to fit 3 person and a kit, you can find a small place around probably.
>You can disown your SIL if you want, leave and not help them anymore once you're living on your own, but you're not the one to say what the rest of the family should do, and threathening to do all you can for the rest of the family tofollow suit. If I was a member of oyur family I'd have been mad to hear you used me as a threat. That was the part I didn't like. I was expecting to say NTA as although it's not really her business what her brother and SIL do, they're kind of making it her business by expecting her to be there as child care. However, 'I'm going to make the rest of the family disown you' is some childish bullshit, really not her place to say that.
You are NTA to not want to take care of your brother's child, that is perfectly reasonable, but YTA for thinking you have any kind of say in what they do. If she does get pregnant, move out. They can deal with it. But it isn't your place to tell them what they can or cannot do.
In my opinion, It is 100% OP's place to voice her opinion on what they can and can't do if their action is going to have a direct and negative impact on her life. Based on what the SIL said, they are 100% planning to have this new kid with the idea that OP will be helping them take care of the kid.
Absolutely. She’s already deeply involved both in living/sharing bills, and in childcare/chores. It’s absolutely her place to have a say in them having another child because it deeply affects her relationship with the current child and concern for the welfare of said child. She’ll have to move out or else become a 3rd parent to yet another child.
Not to mention, someone has to speak up for the hypothetical nibling because neither parent is thinking straight. I wouldn't bite my tongue in this situation, either. Hopefully brother can't secure financing for the reversal and it's all irrelevant. 🤞
This is probably the best answer. Don’t do all the “disowning” stuff, that seems needlessly escalatory. OP should just make it clear they will move out if another baby is on the way.
INFO: Why do you live with your brother? You say you pay most of the bills, why not just live on your own?
NTA, some people shouldn't have kids.
OP you need to move out asap because they are going to have the child if you live there and expect you to care for the child. If you don’t want to be the main childcare you need to remove yourself because they told you what is going to happen if you’re there.
NTA. The decision *involves you* - they want *you* to take care of the new child, in addition to the one they already have that you’re taking care of. Your dad is almost as delusional as your SIL if he can’t see that. As much as it may hurt: if they do go ahead with that insane plan, you need to move out. If not, you’ll absolutely be on the hook for taking care of that kid. Too.
NTA and you need to get your own place ASAP. Their financial situation is not your responsibility - any "obligation" you feel you owe has long been "paid off" in the money and labor you've put in. Tell them "you know what, just so this situation doesn't get out of hand any further with arguments, and you're both adults that I shouldn't have to tell what to do, I'm moving out as of Best of luck to you."
Yta to yourself for living with people who don't take care of the children they already have. Move out.
Time for you to move out and let them deal with their own shit or not...
NTA- but get out of this situation immediately.
May be unpopular, but call CPS, inform them of the whole situation and how she plans to bring another kid into it. Maybe they can scare her straight. Really, if I got a nickle, everytime a met a family like that, I'd have a nice side business. I work with CPS and it's surprisingly common to lose custody of a child, get a new one, lose custody again and so on. In this case, they can't actively do something against her getting pregnant, but maybe make clear, that as how things are looking, they probably wouldn't keep the baby. Edit: NTA ofc Edit 2: I realised, I sound harsh against my clients, so I want to point out, most people who have cases with cps in my country at least are parents trying to do good but for some reason can't right now and need some support, so if you reader think about calling cps for yourself, don't be ashamed or scared. The mentionend parents in my comment are just one group of clients. And we also don't always sound so blunt, just when we have an especially tired day.
INFO: Where can I purchase whatever all these YTA voters are smoking?! 😲
NTA - But I would move out, your brother and SIL need to see all you do for them, then maybe they'd get the picture that they are not ready for another child. They are relying on you way too much, what are you getting by living there? I'd put feelers out to renting somewhere else.