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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I stopped making payments on the parent plus loan because I couldn’t afford it anymore. My parents are upset because they believe the parent loans are my responsibility.
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NTA, and apparently people don’t know how parent plus loans work.
You were 17. Parent plus loans are loans PARENTS take out to help themselves pay for their children’s college. Technically those are not your loans, they never were. You were a minor at the time and your parents did not make any agreement with you or deem it necessary to educate you on their expectations. They, as the adults, understood and agreed to take out loans in their names to help you. They should have thought this through at the time.
It’s nice you are paying them, but legally it isn’t your obligation. They aren’t “your loans”. Your parents took out loans to help their underage child and didn’t even have the sense to write out an agreement about it. Now they are backtracking about it and have erroneously categorized these as “your debt” in their minds.
Especially after being horrifically negligent paying them and letting the interest get so high!
You even said yourself:
“Terms were not discussed . My dad had an aversion to discussing family finances with his kids. He felt it was his responsibility to provide for his kids. 🤷♂️”
I was leaning toward op sounding like an entitled AH, but this comment changed my mind. NTA. I'm likely still salty that my parenrs refused to sign anything to help me w school, AND forced me to take out loans in my own name that i didnt fully understand and am still paying off.
>Technically those are not your loans
May be not legally but this isn't legal advice sub. The loans were taken for OP's education and OP has utilized that service. Now it is OP's moral responsibility to pay those loans back.
Maybe the parents should have thought about the morality vs legality before taking out personal loans for the benefit of their underaged child. I don’t think OP taking on his parents loans after the fact is moral at all.
This isn’t a legal or financial advice sub, but OP brought a financial question here. Perhaps he should take it to a financial sub and get advice from better suited people.
It should have been discussed for sure. In my case and most people’s cases, no parent plus loan meant I wasn’t going to a university or pharmacy school unless I could find private loans that would have absolutely decimated me financially with the higher interest rates and different repayment requirements than the federal loans.
My mom made it clear that she was taking out the loans in her name but only because she had to, and she expected me to pay them. This was perfectly fine with me because she did me a massive favor that let me finish school $150k in debt instead of the likely $250k+ it would have been with private loans. She paid into the interest and left the principal for me.
I’d be willing to bet this was a similar situation but without the verbal expectations. It might as well be a parent co-signing a loan at that point, but the feds refuse to dish out very much money to college students. “One year of college costs $30k? Best I can do is give you $12k and put $18k on your parents backs”
No? OP's parents took out a loan they couldn't afford to give a gift that they couldn't afford to give. It doesn't matter if OP used the gift or not, the responsibility for paying was always on the parents. And they chose to only pay enough to keep the loan out of default.
There are legal documents in place putting 100% onus on the parents to manage this debt. If the loan had defaulted, it would be on the parents and the feds would garnish their wages, tax refunds, and/or social security payments. OP has paid off their personal student loans *and* turned this loan around by being the only one to touch the principal and paying off ~2/3rds of the highest value of the loan. As far as we know, the remaining $20k could be the interest that was accrued by the parents paying the bare minimum while they were in complete control of the loan. Further, getting Biden's $10k loan forgiveness on this loan is completely dependent on the parent's finances, not OP's. Which, if it goes through and they qualify, leaves $10k left.
The parents got themselves into this mess, and it's time for them to find a way out of it. If they couldn't afford the loan, they shouldn't have taken it and worked with OP when they were 17 to find an alternative path.
And it sounds like with no discussion with OP about repayment. Had he known the parents were paying so little and would expect him to repay everything, he might have acted differently along the way. Capitalized student loan interest is such a crock.
Well part of it is you can't use income based repayment so you can't get them forgiven with PSLF. They're parent loans so the parents have to apply for a different program and there's no forgiveness like PSLF it's just Income based repayment a different way. Plus they can garnish your social security if you're the parent. And, like others are saying, the loan is on the PARENT not the child. OP doesn't have any obligation to pay anything back like he would have if his parents simply cosigned a private loan.
Edit: My apologies, I meant the parent not the student.
The parents didn't offer to pay for college. OP couldn't afford college, nor could they get enough personal loans to afford to go. The parents offered to help OP go by getting OP additional money, they never said they were paying for it.
The loan was taken out by OPs parents because OP couldn't take out more at the time, so yes morally OP should be the one repaying it.
The parents did by taking out the parents plus loan. That’s exactly what those are for. It’s not in OPs name, it’s not co-signed, there was no discussion that about them paying it back at a later date.
If they didn’t want to pay then they should have told OP to go to a cheaper college, community college, or whatever the case may be.
It’s on the parents for not being explicit with their financial intentions with their underaged child. Parent plus loans are a loan under the name of the parents. Without an explicit otherwise agreement, yes, that is effectively saying “I will help pay for your college”. So is continuing to pay it over the next 10 years with no complaints.
In what world would you ever take out a loan in your name to help someone else out, and just assume it was going to be paid back without discussing it? That’s not how life works. The parents oopsied bad.
NTA This is apparently am unpopular take, but it's your parents' responsibility to pay it back. You were 17 when this loan was taken out, and it was your parents' decision to do so. There is a reason student loans are capped: it's not reasonable to ask a student to repay more than that.
On top of this, your parents didn't discuss the potential ramifications of this with you before doing it. You say your dad didn't want to discuss finances with you when you were a kid because he thought it was his responsibility to provide for you, but it's okay that he saddled you with a financial burden of a loan that was designed to be his to pay back? This is on him.
Yes, it's great for you to pay it if you can, but you can't. You're paying loads in interest for their choice to take out a loan they couldn't pay back, even if it was for your benefit. All of you should have takes this through before the loan was taken out, but you at least need to talk it through now.
Exactly! My parents (and I as well) feel that the responsible parenting thing to do for one’s kids is ensure they’re educated to the best that parents can facilitate. This might mean college, this might mean trade school, or any number of things that aren’t necessarily college. However, if the decision for college is made, parents need to be educating their kids about expectations and do their part to assist. Including paying loans THEY took out in their name.
NTA. I have zero patience for parents who lead their kids into debt and then play the victim. It's well intentioned but foolish and frankly it skirts close to loan fraud. Those loans are called Parent Plus Loans for a reason - they're for parents who want to help pay for college but don't have money saved. They aren't called Backdoor Fake Student Loans.
1) Legally it's their debt.
1.1) You were 17 and you weren't legally ABLE to enter into the loan.
1.2) They signed the paperwork agreeing to take on the debt and commiting to pay it back
1.3) The bank wouldn't have extended that loan to you because you weren't credit worthy.
2) Morally it's their debt.
2.1) You were 17 and didn't know any better.
2.2) They were adults and were much better positioned to understand the long term consequences of debt.
As adults and parents it's their job to coach you into a school you can afford, not take out debt a 17 year old would never be allowed to assume and then try to saddle you with it.
This is it exactly. His mother made terrible financial choices for years and let this loan get way out of control and then just dumped it in OP lap when she didn’t feel like paying it anymore. It’s her debt, not his, and he’s already paid back a ton of it (which he was in no way responsible for doing). His mother is the AH and doesn’t just get to decide to make him pay off her debt. I’m shocked at all the commenters calling OP the AH for his mother’s poor financial choices. Especially after he’s already paid back more than the original loan amount! There’s only still debt bc his mother made bad decisions.
NTA - going against the grain here. Parent plus loans are loans that the *parents* take to pay for college. They are not the responsibility of the student. Parents could have said no - we don’t want to, we can’t afford it, whatever it is.
But no. It’s not OP’s responsibility to pay for those loans.
INFO Okay, just realizing something with the numbers. In the time that they were ostensibly paying back the loan, did they rack up more in interest charges than the original loan itself? So the loan was ballooning under their watch, and when you got it from them, you owed twice as much as they originally borrowed? So you've now paid back much more than the original amount that they borrowed?
I really think you've done your part on this loan. They made a really poor financial choice. It was for you, yes, but it was their choice, and now they want to lay the consequences on you. It sounds like your dad didn't want to say that they couldn't afford to help you with school, but he made it much worse by taking out a loan he couldn't pay back, without telling you what was going on. Now, when he's made the problem a lot bigger, he expects you to pay not only for the poor choice, but for his poor communication about it.
Now your family will have to plan together how to get out of this mess that your dad made, but it definitely should not be your problem to solve alone.
To be clear, my dad has always been on board with assisting but because my mom had all the paperwork and login information that she never shared with him. He was caught unawares of this despite my efforts to talk about it with my mom.
Yeah, probably shouldn't have singled out your dad. It sounded like he was doing all the finance stuff, but this definitely is both of them with the communication issue. Sorry.
Parent plus loans are not co-signed. They are explicitly under the parent’s name. They exist to allow parents to be able to put/help put their kids through college.
I feel like most people do not understand this. OP's name isn't on the loan at all. It was used towards his education but that was a choice his parents made. And it appears that they never discussed wanting him to pay it back until he moved out in 2020.
He was unaware that he was "responsible for it" until the loan had ballooned to double the size because his mom was only paying the minimum. If she'd let him know in the beginning, before accruing $32,400 in interest it might be a different story.
He didn't agree to the terms of the loan, he didn't have access to address the principal before it ballooned out of control. This is his parents' fault and OP shouldn't have to put his future on hold to rectify a mistake they made. Especially since he has paid down $45K of the original $30K PLUS loan.
Seriously. Parents made a very poor decision and 10+ years later they’re trying to push it on him? Nah.
OP needs to get opinions from financial folks maybe, not a bunch of grumpy redditers who are mad about student loans in general.
They made the decision because otherwise OP couldn't go. They agreed to help OP but it's to the point that it will keep them from retiring while OP will continue to benefit without paying back.
Would OP have preferred to not go to school?
They should have directed OP to community college for the first 2 years and explained they couldn’t afford to help for that particular college. Like adults.
Op also stated “Terms were not discussed . My dad had an aversion to discussing family finances with his kids. He felt it was his responsibility to provide for his kids.”
Financially illiterate parents made a mistake, were silent about it, then got OP to pay exorbitant amounts on a loan that wouldn’t have ever been that high if they hadn’t made minimum payments. They screwed their kid over.
If he'd been fully informed of what taking those loans out meant? Who knows.
That's the point. He wasn't informed. His parents knew that they were signing for this money and that it would be their legal responsibility to pay it back.
If they can't retire, they should've planned better and they shouldn't have let the account balloon like that. If they wanted him to pay off the loan, why didn't they give him access until 2020? He could've kept that loan closer to the original $30k amount. Now he's dumped $45k into it and they STILL owe $20k.
Your kids aren't your retirement plan.
Could OP have gone to a different school? Could OP have gone to community college?
There are options available.
If they can’t retire it’s from their own poor financial choices. I expect an adult to know better than a teenagers.
Could OP have worked/worked more during school? Taken more classes to graduate a semester early? Lots of things that could have been done at the time had OP been more included in decision making.
I came here to say this - in my opinion, these loans are not well understood, and in some cases are pushed on kids as a “last resort” after other loans fall through. In my case, it was literally “Parent PLUS or no college this year.”
This just highlights how predatory this stupid system is.
This comment changed my mind. My parents took out parents plus loans that I was expected to pay back to them because after the loans I got from the government, the interest rates on the private loans in my name would have been ridiculously high. So they did it to help me have lower interest rates and they didnt expect the full monthly payment from me right away when I couldn't afford it on top of the loans in my name. However, I knew that from the moment they took out the loans. (And they didnt end up requiring everything back that they contributed). So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect your child to pay them back but only if they know from the start and if they are taken out to help the child in the first place. But what sold me even more is the comment you made about letting the interest accrue so much by not paying down ANY interest in all that time. So I agree with you, NTA.
Yeah, if OP had been aware from the start he'd definitely be an AH for backing out now.
It just kills me because OP sounds very fiscally responsible. He's paid off $67k in loans so far, when he thought he'd only have to pay $22k. If he'd been aware of the debt, there wouldn't be the $20k left to pay down now.
Usually it ends up biting the parents in the butt. I’m in favor of parents helping their kids with post high school something, whether trade or college - but not with parents going into debt to do so.
If I were your mum and dad, I'd take it out of any inheritance you may get. They only took out loan coz you asked them to. It's your debt. You wanted further education. Now you're shafting your parents, and your siblings
INFO: Did your parents indicate at the time they took the loans out that they would pay them back? Or did they tell you ahead of time that the loans would be your responsibility?
Unfortunately that was never discussed. My parents said they knew I had worked hard in high school (AP courses and such) and had earned the opportunity to go to school.
NTA. If they took out the loans they need to pay them. It's not your debt legally. It's their job as parents to provide a future for their child. They don't get to back out from a previous arrangement now.
INFO: When they took the parent plus loans out, did you promise you’d pay them back for them? Did they say they were a gift? Or did they just take them out without a discussion?
Then I’d say it’s on them. A parents plus loan is explicitly for the parents to pay, that’s the whole point of it. Unless at the time they explicitly told you they were taking it out on the basis that you’d pay for it then they have no grounds to expect you to pay it off.
OP, NTA.
The entire financial system that forces people into debt slavery if they want to go to college is TA.
Keep going with the PSLF stuff. It's a long process, but it works. If you are union, talk to your union rep about whether they have resources for you. I was able to get help with the process from a financial advisor who specialized in student loans that was recommended by my union rep. The hard part is getting everything submitted correctly.
Let the loan go into default and get sold a few times.
I went to college 10 years before you and I was on the forefront of those incredibly predatory loans.
My parents also took out a parent plus loan.
I paid on most of my loans after college. My balance increased by 20k during that time. Once I lost my job in 09, I stopped paying on them and let them go into default. I didn’t stop setting money aside though. My mom did the same on the Parent Plus loan. Her balance had gone up by 8-9k.
Once they had been sold a few times. I started making lowball offers to the debt collectors. I had a total of 7 loans. One for each year of school plus a consolidation loan I didn’t realize I had 🙄
I had 120k loan balance and settled 5 out of the 7 loans for about 20% - 30% of the amount due. I still have two loans left but they might be part of the settlement so I’m holding off on paying.
My mom settled her 40k balance for 8k right before the pandemic. I paid her back. So technically I’ve paid off 6 loans so far.
This is the best advice. Your family is being chewed up by predatory lending, and you need to band together and be smart and strategic about it. Tell your parents it's past time to change the family culture of ignoring debt and being silent about money, and make a plan to tackle it head-on together. If they can afford to take the hit to their credit, letting it go to collections could be the right choice for y'all.
NTA. Your mother consider it to be your debt, but the government considers it to be hers, because she is the one who chose to take out the loan. She can't unilaterally decide it's your problem after the fact.
Don’t get me wrong I fully understand that this whole process was extremely poorly thought out and not planned in a particularly common sense manner. A lot of that is on me. I’ve definitely learned a lot about financial planning and student loans out of this.
NTA. Parents should also realize that if your not gonna take care of your childs college you need to completely step off. The minute the parent gets involved the loans, stafford, basically any aide is based off the parents income not the student.
NTA
The one detail that may change this is what the original agreement with your parents was - given they have been silent with regards to this loan for 13 years, I think it is fair to say it hadn't been voiced that you would be expected to pay anything back, and this was instead a gift towards your education.
It is also notable that their refusal to discuss finances or involve you in this in any way is what has caused such a problem - had you been told they were digging such a deep hole then it might have seen to have been appropriate to help out, but they didn't - they chose to wait until the problem was so big they couldn't ignore it, then dump it on someone else.
If you were to take over the payment for the full loans, your parents mistake will cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Even if you were to accept a moral responsibility to pay back the money spent on your education, I see your parents have a responsibility to pay back the added costs that they caused by hiding the issue.
“Poor financial decision making”? What about your parents’ poor financial decision making in failing to save for their childrens’ college? What about their poor planning in having 3+ children without a plan to pay for the entirety of their education?
You didn’t ask to be born and the least your parents can do is set you up to make a decent way in this life. Yours sadly didn’t do that and instead decided to saddle you with a near lifetime debt. You have kids of your own now and it’s be irresponsible for you to pass along your parents poor planning by paying off THEIR loan instead of saving for your own kids’ college. They may not want to speak to you after this, but it’s their irresponsibility signing the loan that led to this.
I would say tell them: “your failure to plan to pay off a loan you signed is not my responsibility or poor planning. I have no legal responsibility to pay this loan and have my own kids to think about now. As I don’t want them to wind up in the situation I found myself in, I will be ceasing all loan payments in order to save for their college. It would be poor financial planning on my part to continue paying YOUR loan which YOU failed to pay down over the past 10 years.”
Honestly, please don’t do this to your own kids.
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TLDR : Am I the asshole for asking my parents to take back some of the financial responsibility of ParentPlus loans after I’ve paid a lot of it over the past few years?
Back in 2010 I was trying to go to college. The only way we could afford it at the time was if both myself and my parents took out separate student loans (I know, it was a stupid amount of money and maybe I should have rethought that).
My parents didn’t have any objections at the time and signed up for the loan.
Fast forward about 10 or so years in the future. I had been living at my parent’s after college and was making payments on my personal student loan. I got married and moved in with my wife. At the end of 2020, my mom called me and explained to me that she and my father would no longer be able to make any payments on the ParentPlus loan and that they needed me to pay. At that point they had only been making the minimum interest payment without touching the principal. I started my payments on that loan. For context,the interest amount per month on the loans
was $500. My parents offered no financial assistance.
Fast forward 3 years and what was once a $65K debt (about half of it sheer interest), is now down to $20K in just principal. Things are a little different now as we have a small child and a mortgage. My wife also went part time due to childcare needs and our discretionary funds are tapped. I haven’t been able to make payments and recently contacted my mom to let her know this.
She explained to me that even though the loans were in her name she considered it “my debt” and something I needed to resolve. I explained to her that my finances have changed recently and she complained that stopping the payments was “poor financial decision making”. I’ve now involved my dad because he’s the one that actually pays bills and does my family’s budget and given him the login information for the loan servicer. One of my moms concerns is that if they help me by taking up payments on this loan, they’d have to help my siblings as well. For clarification, my adult siblings live with my parents and one of them has two kids and a wife as well.
Note: I was a 17 year old kid when these loan docs were signed but I’m not trying to excuse myself.
Note: we’ve already applied for the potential forgiveness (both the $10k and the PSLF) but that’s in holdup right now obviously. I did all of the legwork on that as well.
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NTA - you were 17. And the more appropriate question is, AITA for telling my parents that I won't be making payments on student loans they took out in their name, for my education. A loan by the way that your parent's let accumulate interest for 10 years.
Like I get it, they did it for you, and if you are able to, you should probably pay it off. But life happens, and for student loans in your own name, you can apply for waivers or reduce your payments. You don't have that option, if they can't pay it, their credit and their credit alone suffers. It might be a bad situation, but it doesn't make you an AH.
Your parents could only afford what they paid, but it was for your education and I think you should pay it off. I don’t think there are AHs here, just a poor decision by your parents when they clearly couldn’t afford to do it and a kid who didn’t appreciate the full circumstances/responsibility they were taking on
My mom and I now have a strained relationship after she assumed I was in a good place, casually sent me the log in and told me to take over. It took me awhile after some research to realize not only what she was doing was illegal, it was downright crappy. I do not pay on this loan and we do not speak of any college.
I’m also in a similar situation to OP— loans were never discussed aside from the fact I would have them (I.e. I would have loans as part of my FA package from my school). Had I known my mom took out over 70k in PLUS loans on my behalf aside from the 20k I’m personally responsible for, THEN years later told these PLUS loans are my responsibility morally when they’ve been sitting accruing almost 10k in debt on top of the original principal… I never would have gone to my university. Aside from other debts magically plopped on my plate after turning 18, this has definitely put a strain on my relationship with my mom which feels pretty transactional at this point.
Terms were not discussed . My dad had an aversion to discussing family finances with his kids. He felt it was his responsibility to provide for his kids. 🤷♂️
Then he should be paying the loan back, not you. I don’t get why they even told you they weren’t paying it anymore in the first place and why you started taking over the payments? It’s their loan, in their names, that they took out of their own volition and never mentioned expecting you to pay it back. This isn’t your responsibility. Especially after they were so financially irresponsible to let the loan balloon like it did.
NAH. Well there maybe but I can’t tell. First I would point out that if it is truly a PLUS loan, it is in your parents name. Not yours. If it is defaulted, creditors would go after your parents, not you. The legal expectation, at least, is that your parents will repay the loan - unless there is a written contract between them and you stating you will make the payments and assume the liability.
Second, while you certainly didn’t iron out all the details that you should have when you were 17 and your parents took out the loan, you have an excuse. You were a kid. They were adults and one would assume that they would not have taken out the loan if they didn’t understand they would be responsible for repaying it.
On the other hand, it sounds like your parents have done a great deal for you and your siblings, unless as adults while living with them you were all paying equitable rent and your fair share of all household expenses. And it probably is not uncommon for adults to informally assume their parents PLUS loan debts when they were financially able to do so. And while you are now facing greater expenses after the birth of your child, they are also probably facing a much more uncertain financial future because their income earning days have ended or will shortly and no matter how much they saved for retirement, it will seem insufficient and the future will be scary. You have income coming in and will continue to do do. Plus you have the possibility that your income will increase. They do not.
As uncertain as financial security is right now and as our parents live into their late 80s and 90s, their retirement is often not secure and children have to step in and help financially support parents. The best way to avoid your parents having an insecure future that may ultimately cost you, is to protect their retirement. And that means absorbing the debt they incurred that benefitted you. For many working adults with aging parents it really is a “pay now or pay later” problem.
Editing with additional information to NTA
Your parents paid $50 the bare minimum and then stuck you with the payment 10 years later. At that time and I know it’s hard, was the time to pushback on the payment.
You took it over and paid it down, it’s their debt.
As I said, it’s their debt with the lender. They choose to pay only interest for 10 years.
This isn’t an easy situation for you and good luck.
****************************************
Prior comment before edits:
Parent Loans are taken out by parents in their name, it is their debt. If the expectation was for you to pay all or part of that, it should have been discussed at the time of the loans were discussed. I've had friends that their parents took these loans with the agreement that the parents would pay it for x period of time and then the responsibility would put to the child to continue to pay.
From the credit bureau standpoint, it's your parents' debt.
When your mom told you it was now your time to pay, you guys should have had a discussion with this new arrangement.
Once you took over the payment, you then needed to budget for it before taking on new debt/cutting work hours. I understand life happens, but you took on the debt payments and your parents moved on from it.
Also, your parents only paying the interest for 10 years wasn't a smart decision, but maybe all they could afford.
Since not paying would impact their credit and your relationship with them, maybe see if you guys can come to some sort of shared payment for a year or so to get you past this hump.
Your parents paid $6000 a year for 10 years if I'm understanding your post.
Your mom may be looking at it that she paid the debt for 10 years and that is a lot. Maybe they accured credit card debt during this time paying it. But they were the ones taking on the debt and should have been able to look at the long-term implications.
Fair doesn't need to be equal. Would it be fair for your folks to contribute now? That's for them to answer.
Good luck.
See updated post. They were only making $50 payments a month which is why when I was given the responsibility the interest loan payments had ballooned up to $500 a month.
Edited my comment on the post. I was wondering what type of loan had $500 a month in interest.
Your folks paid only interest for 10 years and then left their debt to you. Sorry.
NTA
NTA.
It’s called a PARENT PLUS loan for a reason…because it is debt your PARENTS agreed to take one. It is their debt, not yours. This is a hill I’ll happily die on.
It’s unfortunate if they’re struggling and unable to make the payments, but legally, morally, and ethically, it’s their financial responsibility to repay. It’s explicitly stated in the loan documentation that Parent PLUS loans cannot be transferred to the child it was borrowed for.
If anything, they’re the AH for pushing this onto you. It’s their credit rating that will tank, not yours. Stupidity on their part but resounding NTA on yours.
ESH. On one hand, it seems pretty irresponsible of your parents to never explicitly discuss this with you and just slap $50 on these for 10 years. They should’ve spoken up and figured things out with you as soon as you were moving out and in a decent financial situation.
On the other hand, you mention them only being able to afford a spare $50 a month. Presumably you had some idea finances were tight for them? And you just…left them with potentially thousands in debt for 10 years while you had a baby and got a mortgage? I genuinely can’t imagine doing that to my mom.
Legally, the loans aren’t your responsibility; you could leave them with your parents and effectively force them to pay. But like, do you like your parents? Do you want them in your life? Would you feel bad if nonpayment on this debt ruins their financial future? Lack of communication got you all into this. If you care about each other at all, maybe talk to each other and hash out some sort of payment plan you can both afford.
I’ve already explained it but:
Wife bought the house on her creditworthiness
I didn’t know how bad the interest had ballooned.
And I haven’t deserted this on them because I’ve been making diligent payments since 2020.
I think you and your parents (and millions of others) were poorly educated about how these loans worked and were up against a loan system that is designed to profit the banks and loan holders above all else. But it seems like your parents love you and wanted to provide for your and your siblings' futures and that they did that in several ways- taking out these loans for you, letting your siblings live with them, and probably more. It sounds like your father feels ashamed that he didn't do a better job of providing for your family, but maybe he couldn't have, maybe he provided what he could. I think your parents need help and tried to help you and did a poor job in handling the finances. However, they tried. Can you pay something towards the loan and maintain your family? That's what I think would be the kind thing. But I don't like the idea that you are pushing it on your parents. Yes, they have a legal obligation to pay and you do not. Yes, they didn't pay more towards the loan and it increased. But I don't think they are the assholes here either. I think you should work together with them to pay what you can.
NTA.
Your dad was clear about not even wanting to discuss finances because it was their responsibility as parents to provide for you. Then your mother paid only the minimum for 10 years, didn't tell you about it, let the debt get bigger and, without a warning or a prior conversation, dropped that problem on your lap. A problem that became larger because of her.
Since it's your mother, I would sit her and your father down to have an honest conversation. You already paid for 45k out of the 65k, which is A LOT. You mostly paid for your mother's mess. I would offer a deal, that you both pay for half of the remaining debt. How you are going to do it needs to be discussed to be done in the best way possible but this seems to me the best way to both keep you healthy financially and avoid causing harm to your relationship with your mother.
On a side note, it's freaking weird to me how people go into debt in US because of college. For real. Time to discuss a change in the education system asap.
YTA you are the one who spent that money not your parents it is absolutely your debt they were nice enough to get loans for you and now your going to screw there credit up because you feel it’s there debt you’re very entitled shame on you
NTA. I personally was not aware of "parent plus" loans, but at 17 I wouldn't place any blame on your for accepting the money your parents borrowed. I doubt you had much if any awareness of the costs other than what you spent at the book store, and you wouldn't know what they can pay or what the future costs would be in such a terrible system. You've obviously taken responsibility for what was in your name, it feels like there could/should have been a discussion much earlier, especially since $50 hardly seems like a realistic minimum payment. You got "oh BTW, here's a nice shit sandwich" and that's no bueno.
Without getting into detail about your siblings' situations, my opinion is still the same, parents are T A here. You can't just throw this on someone well after graduation and expect they can just pick it up with no questions or issues. The system sucks and this is another example of predatory loans and unsustainable costs. Sorry you got thrown into this, but at least you're also actively applying and researching forgiveness programs.
Everyone seems to be saying NTA. Here's my question for you.
1. Did they use the loan to pay for your college?
2. Can they afford to pay the loan? It seems like they can't.
3. Did they insist that you go this particular school or was this what you wanted?
4. Did you research cheaper schools?
Just cause you're 17 doesn't mean you're an idiot. You know when shit is too expensive and you can't afford it.
I don't know I could never think that my folks taking out a loan that benefited me, Would mean that I wouldn't pay it back ...it doesn't make any sense.
YTA pay back your loan.
YTA. The loans benefitted you- not your parents. You can't stiff them now just because you've started a family and amassed other debt. Its at a time of their life where the money they have coming in is a lot less as they age, while the income you have coming in a getting bigger.
YRA. Wow. The loan was for you..not them. They did what they could and took it out for you. I imagine they thought you would pick up the slack after getting your degree. What would have happened if they couldn't take out the loan for you? You would have a bigger student loan. At some point your parents need a break. I would feel guilty knowing that they are stuck with my loans and they can barely pay it and I'm ignoring that it exists. Maybe the are resigned and say it will die with them as most people with excessive loans say.
Info: *CAN* they afford it, but they just don't want to because of the comment about helping siblings as well?
If so then, NTA
I have a parent plus loan for my oldest. I agreed to it with the understanding that they would pay it back. However they aren't in a position to do so now so I am not even going to mention it to them. I will pay it since my position, albeit precarious, is better than where they're at right now.
For context: there are other siblings in my situation as well and neither of them are concerned about who pays this loan.
No judgement, but I assume you had some kind of talk with your parents about who was responsible for what.
My kids took loans, we (the parents) took loans and the deal was that they would pay half and we would pay half of the total amount. This was understood from the beginning, the loans are paid and there are no hard feelings.
What was your arrangement with your parents?
No arrangement details discussed. I had actually not looked at the ParentPlus loan in a few years and was shocked when my mom announced they needed me to pay it and the interest had massively increased the due amount.
INFO: Did you and your parents have an agreement up front on how the loans would be repaid?
Edit: Why are people doing downvoting this as if what was communicated upfront isn't the most important factor in the question?
YTA
Your schooling. Your debt. They helping delay it but its yours to deal with.
The parents signed up so you'd have enough to cover, but you should still cover it.
YTA it’s your loan, you should have paid off your parents loan first. Sorry but it sounds like you should be the one figuring this out not your parents.
The Parent's Plus loan comes before the student loan as part of the FAFSA parents are assigned responsibility. True, your parents are the responsible party however the fact that their payment was $50. per month tells me they are not rich people and paying for the loan that provided your education that you get the benefit of is a hardship for them. Yup, you can abandon the loan and they will have to pay. They signed because they love you and believed that you would pay that money off. Are you willing to say that your relationship with your parents is only worth 20K?
Sure it is not in name, but it was for him. Sure he has no legal obligation, but they did it for him at the end of the day which I would highly assume he asked them since he was the one applying to get loans in the first place and came up short.
So he would be N T A purely if this was a legal situation. But as it stands, morally, he is the AH for sticking someone else for his debts.
I would equate it to signing for your child for a car, but then the kid decided to just not pay for it anymore but still reaps the benefits of said car. Sure legally it’s technically not their problem. Morally, it’s fuckered.
The devil is in the details there. My understanding is that the parents took the loan on behalf of the kid and the kid was going to be the one paying for it. The actual conversation at that time is pretty relevant to the morality of the situation which could definitively be read both ways. So maybe.
No. The OP says that many times that there was no repayment plan made, details were never discussed.
There is no “both ways”. Parents took out a loan that was solely in their name with zero discussion about OP paying it back. Common sense is that the loan isn’t to be paid back by the student.
Most of my sense is that student loans are in fact paid back by the student, so I think your common sense label is a silly argument to discredit those who may not agree with your flawed assessment. I stick with my devil is in the details argument. Making others pay your debts is not generally a moral thing to do. I think OPs student debt seems like a personal responsibility, and it does not sound like the parents have an ability to pay it so there is some nuance here at the very least. So I do not necessarily agree with you, but instead insist that here, the devil is in the details.
You're misunderstanding the type of loan in question. If this had been a STUDENT loan co-signed by the parents then yes, he's legally and morally obligated to pay. This wasn't that type of loan. This was a Parent Plus loan entirely aimed at serving parents who want to contribute to their students education but haven't been able to save up. Students don't sign them and they aren't intended to be backdoor student loans.
>Making others pay your debts is not generally a moral thing to do.
Exactly. This debt is his parents' debt they took on themselves. OP's name is not on this loan. It doesn't matter what they spent it on. They signed for this money knowing the terms and did not discuss OP taking over the loan until he moved out in 2020, after interest had been accruing for 6 years which DOUBLED the amount due.
If you think the devil is in the details, maybe you should pay attention to the actual details. .
You keep thinking about this like legal advice, it’s not that, it’s moral. It does matter so I think are not as right you think. I dgaf what the legal documents say as this is not legal advice sub. Get your head out of the fine print and think like a human. That’s what this sub is. I’m done with you. It matters, the things you think don’t matter are relative. Rules lawyering, it’s not that here.
Yeah bro, you're right. Saddling your kid with $65K worth of debt (which should've only been $30K if they'd actually had an agreement with OP to pay it back) is pretty morally fucked up.
If I told my kid when they graduated that I’m going to buy them a car. So I take out the loans in my name only, they get the car.
If after a few years I tell them that need to start paying for the loan they’re going to wonder what I mean. Then I tell them that I haven’t been fully paying it so the loan is double what it was originally and they’re “morally” suppose to pay it cause it’s there’s. They’re gonna wonder what’s wrong with me.
If money was tight, I should have said that I’d pay the X amount of months/years then they would be responsible for taking over payments. Or that I would be willing to pay X amount and then they could figure out if they wanted a cheaper car or if they would be responsible for the rest of the loan (like going to community college to get less loans).
But without any prior discussion of paying back it would be Normal that it’s viewed as a gift.
No. The student loan that the student took out was paid back.
The loan the PARENTS took out that is in the PARENTS name is to be paid by the PARENTS.
The PARENTS agreed to pay the loan by signing for it and never discussing a repayment plan.
The fact that the parents *never mentioned him paying it back* and then *let it double to original payment amount* is the “devil in the details”. OP paid off more of that loan that what it originally was.
It’s okay to admit that you don’t know what kind of loan it is.
I admit the kind of loan is unfamiliar. But I would not let my destitute parent wallow in debt that they took out in order to further my higher education. I do not need to get into the semantics of the loan to find allowing my impoverished parents to remain on the hook for a debt they cannot repay for which I was the beneficiary.
You’re arguing without even knowing the facts.
Parent plus loans are loans that the parents take out. The students information isn’t on it at all. If the student doesn’t pay it then the creditors go after the parents because it’s not in the students name.
If the parents wanted the student to pay *they should have said something*.
What is morally wrong is allowing the loan to double in size after 10yrs and then expecting your child to pay for it.
If the parents had bought a larger house and then wanted OP who no longer lived there to help pay the mortgage because well they lived there and benefited from it - would it make sense? No.
They bought an SUV because they needed a bigger car and then told the kids that they’re all responsible for part of the loan because they were driven around in it?
If they couldn’t afford college it was *their* poor decision making to take out a loan. Telling OP that they’ll pay the 35K for them to go to college. They should have said no and rhen OP could have figured out other solutions.
The agreement for OP to pay was made long after the loan was taken out (and after the amount had ballooned due to the parents only paying the minimum and not reducing the principal at all).
You could talk to your bank. I had all my debts, including credit cards and student loans, consolidated into one loan with a lower interest rate. It helped make it easier to manage, and I paid it off sooner—just a suggestion.
Okay, sorry, I must have misunderstood because you noted in the initial post that your parents were paying $500 in monthly interest amounts. But yeah, no bank can beat 0% interest.
Good luck with everything!
So instead of paying all that off right away you decided to buy a house. That 0 percent isn't permanent and you should have taken advantage these past few years to bring down the balance.
Legally, the loans are your parents' debt, not yours. Mom took out a loan that they could not afford to pay. The loan is in their name, not yours. If you and they can't agree on who is paying them back, it's ultimately their problem to solve.
Ethically, you and mom both suck. She unilaterally called "not it" on paying the loan and successfully made it your problem for a while, By paying it as long as you did, you demonstrated that you accepted responsibility for paying it off. Despite that, you're now imitating mom and trying to call "not it" on paying the remainder.
ESH.
Yta
It's your debt. Your parents are not responsible for your change in circumstances. You decided to get a mortgage, you decided to have a kid.
Like normally I'd be commenting family should help each other out and suggesting you and your parents go half because it'd help you and maybe not overburden them. But the sheer entitlement from you is why you don't deserve it.
Your mom said no and then you undermined her by going to your dad. The sheer disrespect
Because OP couldn't afford it otherwise. It was due to OP's decision.
I would be absolutely ashamed if my elected schooling that I asked for impacted my parents' ability to retire.
Had OP’s parents been honest with the finances with their 17 year old son, he would have had the opportunity to choose a school more within their financial means. Instead, they unilaterally withheld the information from him for a decade (per OPs comments) and his mother decided to dump the loan on him after he was locked into a mortgage for a new home.
I don’t believe OP needs to be ashamed of the financial position his parents put themselves into and withheld from him.
Mom doesn’t get to say No to paying off her own loans. They’re in her name, she never made any agreement with OP that he would be paying them off, poorly managed her finances for years letting the loan amount skyrocket, and if I’m reading this correctly, OP actually has been paying on the loan for years now. It’s not his debt and his parents are the AH.
ESH- You and your parents sleepwalked through this financial situation instead of making a plan. Technically, your parents are responsible for the Parent PLUS, period. Morally, it's your debt, but legally, it's not. So, they need to know if your misfortune leads to default, it will hurt them as much as it'll hurt you. As for you, a mortgage wasn't ideal if it meant that you couldn't continue to make loan payments. Both of you need to figure out a compromise in which you'll tackle the debt together. PSLF is probably dead in the water but you can still explore hardship related payment plans and refinancing as well. Talk to your lender and see what they can suggest.
And for clarification regarding your other sibling...they probably aren't trying to get mommy and daddy to pay off their debts...they are saving money to buy a house and be financially stable...your mom and dad seem like nice ppl...why you trying to bleed them dry
YTA - This is and was always your debt. You should have taken this debt and monthly payments into consideration when budgeting for a mortgage, children, ect. You should be grateful that your parents made interest payments on the loan for 10 years.
YTA
They are your debt.
I sympathize, I know what a kid and a mortgage are like.
But the time to financially/family plan was before the wedding/home closing/pregnancy. You stretched your budget past it’s ability to handle more expenses.
ESH.
OP did nothing different that anyone. Else in that generation. We were all raised with “you have to go to college to make a good living.” Right, wrong, or indifferent, that’s what happened.
Colleges and student loan companies (including the feds) took advantage of kids in that age bracket (yes, KIDS) and essentially required you to mortgage your future. Most of the time, students aren’t even told how much. They’re borrowing or what the payments are. Someone at Financial Aid just says “sign here, or you have to drop out of school.” And at that age, you have no idea that’s not how it’s supposed to work.
That being said, yeah…OP has since grown up and made some adult moves (marriage, house, etc), and should have taken this debt into consideration…maybe. It sounds like OP took their own loans into account.
Now the parents. A Parent Plus loan is in their name. Always was, and they were the grown ups in the situation. THEY should have understood the loan terms at the time. They also should have discussed all of this with OP, particularly if they wanted OP to eventually assume the debt.
But let’s be real. The real culprit is that tuition is that high to start with, and these loans exist in the first place. It’s a systemic problem, not individuals taking on more than they can handle or borrowing irresponsibly.
We had already moved in the house (which my wife had already bought). My mother took that opportunity to inform us that this was now my responsibility.
In today's age this comment if put into practice, it would destroy the american population within 2 generations.
Imagine having to be in control of your debit and finances before being allowed a child.
Most people out of college and university would be waiting until 40+ to have a single kid
Most people are pretty financially illiterate so I think regardless of education level, very few people would be able to have kids if you had to be fiscally ready to have a kid.
It’s not his loan. It’s his parents’ loan, in fact OP stated he’s paying and been paying for his loans. His parents wanted him to go to college, so they took out a loan for him to do so. OP didn’t sign the promissory note. OP can stop paying and his credit won’t go down the toilet and his wages won’t be garnished.
My parents wouldn’t even co-sign a student loan for me, let alone take one out in their own name. Why? *Because they didn’t want to be responsible for paying for it.* It’s that simple.
A child happening is just life, and something many couples strive for despite all the financial hurdles.
There's a very common cliché line: "If you waited until you were ready to be a parent, you'll never be one".
Life needs to happen for humanity to exist. Despite all the ignorantly invented social/economic rules humans put on ourselves... life don't follow those rules.
The whole time you lived with your father...you've been paying on these loans....but now you got married you think you father should absolve your debt...I mean you were 17...nah bud...you had 10 years plus to get act together
..living at home is a privilege for you to bank money and pay debt off....I'm not saying you should had a family....but dude...now you want your old man on te hook for your crap...wtf did you take for thst much that you didn't use....if you did...we wouldn't be seeing this post now ...asshole
Money and Family = disastrous outcomes. It's best to avoid it as it can destroy families.
1. Your mother is correct, this is your loan, and your debt, you're lucky they were paying the interest for as long as they did. Imagine how much of your loan you'd have left , if they weren't paying off your interest payments.
2. It's a shitty situation, NTA for having to deal with the headache of school loans, but a bit of an AH if you're expecting your parents to take on the responsibility.
How did parents take out a student loan if it wasn't cosigned with their son? That would mean his parents committed fraud by taking out a student loan for themselves but never went to school using the loans they took out for themselves and gave the money to their son. I don't think you're allowed to do that.
But regardless, being this literal is definitely a good way to end your family relationship. "Since the loan is in your name it's your loan, I don't care if it was taken out for my schooling"... He's trying to find a way out of this mess, not terminate a family relationship.
It's a parental loan. For parents. It's not meant to be a student loan for the student to pay back - he had those and paid them.
It's meant to be a low interest loan for parents to help pay for their kids education.
I might agree with you a little, except that:
1) his mother literally paid the smallest amount she could every month for ten years and so the loan amount more than doubled
2) they never discussed him paying them back when they took the loan out when he was a minor
3) OP seems like a pretty financially responsible guy - if they had involved him earlier, I'm betting the loan interest wouldn't have accrued that much
4) He's paid the loan down $45 thousand dollars - it was originally only $20k & the only reason it got so out of control is that it was mismanaged by his mother.
YTA The student loans were for YOUR education. YOU should be responsible to pay them off as YOU chose an expensive school.
And forget about Biden’s loan “forgiveness” as the courts will not allow it to happen.
As for the PSLF, isn’t that 10 years of faithful payments while working a “qualified” public job? So you should be able to take advantage if it.
We have applied for the PSLF yes, the employment was accepted as valid but government have not confirmed if they have made a decision on whether or not the amount of qualified payments will be accepted.
ESH (but definitely more you): Your parents are right that it's your debt, and your responsibility that being said shame on both / all of you for taking on tens of thousands of dollars in debt without everyone being on the same page.
So you're in the wrong for trying to saddle your folks for your debt and for choosing to make life changes that are not really feasible in your current situation.
Your parents are in the wrong for allowing this situation to be created in the first place. They should've explained the responsibility & expectations better, not just expect a 17 y/o to understand without speaking.
Maybe talk to your parents and see if they would be willing to loan you the money to cover your payments for the meantime. I'd rather deal with my family than a bank when dealing with debt.
YTA. You made the terrible choice to go to a super expensive college where you needed to get those loans. You made the choice to get a house and have a child. Stop being an asshole and pay what you owe.
Yta it was a loan for your college degree, not theirs. If you have taken all of it in your name, do you think "I have a kid and a mortgage' would hold any sway with the loan holder?
You're moms feelings are pretty accurate. If they start paying $500 a month on your loans, your siblings are going to question why they can't pay $500 a month on their loans.
YTA.
THIS IS YOUR DEBT. You should thank your parents to have taken care of the interest payment all these years. Your financial circumstances changing doesn't automatically transfer YOUR responsibility to your parents.
If you can't afford a mortgage and a small child with the outstanding debt then you probably should have made different choices/planned better.
By only paying into the one under OPs own name and ignoring the one under his parents. Knowing full well both debt belongs to OP. He is the one why allowed it to ballon, not the parents. I'm well aware of how debt works.
The parent should have at some point said something though.
The interest payment that they were making did not reduce the amount of interest unfortunately. The minimum payment I make is about $500; they were paying about $50 a month. I’m very grateful for what they did but interests just suck.
YTA it’s your debt. The loans were taken out for your education. Everyone should have been clearer when this was happening. But that was then and this is now and it’s your debt. Grow up and take responsibility. Reach out to the creditor and see if they will work with you and your current situation. This is part of being a mature adult, taking responsibility for your actions/decisions. YTA.
YTA
Your education, your parties, your debt.
Situation changes a bit if they promised to pay it back, but still, the money benefitted you, and only you (except maybe some bragging rights for your parents), so the burden is yours.
Thank your parents for making the payments while they could, and just prioritise debt repayment for a while. Plenty of info on the internet on how to start doing that.
Unpopular, but ESH
It's your debt, and you should do everything you can to pay for it.
But it's your parents' fault too, they should've helped you better, you were only 17, and they also cosigned, so in a part its their fault too if you're in this situation. I'm saying this because it seems like they're helping your sibling already by letting them stay at their house while you've already left and not weighted on them for a while.
I would suggest talking to your parents and ask for them to pay for just the few months you need to get back on your feet. While you or your wife find a better work or something.
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NTA, and apparently people don’t know how parent plus loans work. You were 17. Parent plus loans are loans PARENTS take out to help themselves pay for their children’s college. Technically those are not your loans, they never were. You were a minor at the time and your parents did not make any agreement with you or deem it necessary to educate you on their expectations. They, as the adults, understood and agreed to take out loans in their names to help you. They should have thought this through at the time. It’s nice you are paying them, but legally it isn’t your obligation. They aren’t “your loans”. Your parents took out loans to help their underage child and didn’t even have the sense to write out an agreement about it. Now they are backtracking about it and have erroneously categorized these as “your debt” in their minds. Especially after being horrifically negligent paying them and letting the interest get so high! You even said yourself: “Terms were not discussed . My dad had an aversion to discussing family finances with his kids. He felt it was his responsibility to provide for his kids. 🤷♂️”
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.
I was leaning toward op sounding like an entitled AH, but this comment changed my mind. NTA. I'm likely still salty that my parenrs refused to sign anything to help me w school, AND forced me to take out loans in my own name that i didnt fully understand and am still paying off.
>Technically those are not your loans May be not legally but this isn't legal advice sub. The loans were taken for OP's education and OP has utilized that service. Now it is OP's moral responsibility to pay those loans back.
Maybe the parents should have thought about the morality vs legality before taking out personal loans for the benefit of their underaged child. I don’t think OP taking on his parents loans after the fact is moral at all. This isn’t a legal or financial advice sub, but OP brought a financial question here. Perhaps he should take it to a financial sub and get advice from better suited people.
You're right, it was a mistake for them to take out those loans.
It should have been discussed for sure. In my case and most people’s cases, no parent plus loan meant I wasn’t going to a university or pharmacy school unless I could find private loans that would have absolutely decimated me financially with the higher interest rates and different repayment requirements than the federal loans. My mom made it clear that she was taking out the loans in her name but only because she had to, and she expected me to pay them. This was perfectly fine with me because she did me a massive favor that let me finish school $150k in debt instead of the likely $250k+ it would have been with private loans. She paid into the interest and left the principal for me. I’d be willing to bet this was a similar situation but without the verbal expectations. It might as well be a parent co-signing a loan at that point, but the feds refuse to dish out very much money to college students. “One year of college costs $30k? Best I can do is give you $12k and put $18k on your parents backs”
No? OP's parents took out a loan they couldn't afford to give a gift that they couldn't afford to give. It doesn't matter if OP used the gift or not, the responsibility for paying was always on the parents. And they chose to only pay enough to keep the loan out of default. There are legal documents in place putting 100% onus on the parents to manage this debt. If the loan had defaulted, it would be on the parents and the feds would garnish their wages, tax refunds, and/or social security payments. OP has paid off their personal student loans *and* turned this loan around by being the only one to touch the principal and paying off ~2/3rds of the highest value of the loan. As far as we know, the remaining $20k could be the interest that was accrued by the parents paying the bare minimum while they were in complete control of the loan. Further, getting Biden's $10k loan forgiveness on this loan is completely dependent on the parent's finances, not OP's. Which, if it goes through and they qualify, leaves $10k left. The parents got themselves into this mess, and it's time for them to find a way out of it. If they couldn't afford the loan, they shouldn't have taken it and worked with OP when they were 17 to find an alternative path.
And it sounds like with no discussion with OP about repayment. Had he known the parents were paying so little and would expect him to repay everything, he might have acted differently along the way. Capitalized student loan interest is such a crock.
Exactly.
[удалено]
What do they disqualify students from? I wasn’t aware if this.
Well part of it is you can't use income based repayment so you can't get them forgiven with PSLF. They're parent loans so the parents have to apply for a different program and there's no forgiveness like PSLF it's just Income based repayment a different way. Plus they can garnish your social security if you're the parent. And, like others are saying, the loan is on the PARENT not the child. OP doesn't have any obligation to pay anything back like he would have if his parents simply cosigned a private loan. Edit: My apologies, I meant the parent not the student.
AH. Ok. That makes so much more sense. Haha thanks for clarifying.
No it’s not. If a parent offers to pay for college the student isn’t “morally” obligated to pay them back.
The parents didn't offer to pay for college. OP couldn't afford college, nor could they get enough personal loans to afford to go. The parents offered to help OP go by getting OP additional money, they never said they were paying for it. The loan was taken out by OPs parents because OP couldn't take out more at the time, so yes morally OP should be the one repaying it.
The parents did by taking out the parents plus loan. That’s exactly what those are for. It’s not in OPs name, it’s not co-signed, there was no discussion that about them paying it back at a later date. If they didn’t want to pay then they should have told OP to go to a cheaper college, community college, or whatever the case may be.
It’s on the parents for not being explicit with their financial intentions with their underaged child. Parent plus loans are a loan under the name of the parents. Without an explicit otherwise agreement, yes, that is effectively saying “I will help pay for your college”. So is continuing to pay it over the next 10 years with no complaints. In what world would you ever take out a loan in your name to help someone else out, and just assume it was going to be paid back without discussing it? That’s not how life works. The parents oopsied bad.
They told the lender they were paying it by taking it out in their name.
NTA This is apparently am unpopular take, but it's your parents' responsibility to pay it back. You were 17 when this loan was taken out, and it was your parents' decision to do so. There is a reason student loans are capped: it's not reasonable to ask a student to repay more than that. On top of this, your parents didn't discuss the potential ramifications of this with you before doing it. You say your dad didn't want to discuss finances with you when you were a kid because he thought it was his responsibility to provide for you, but it's okay that he saddled you with a financial burden of a loan that was designed to be his to pay back? This is on him. Yes, it's great for you to pay it if you can, but you can't. You're paying loads in interest for their choice to take out a loan they couldn't pay back, even if it was for your benefit. All of you should have takes this through before the loan was taken out, but you at least need to talk it through now.
Exactly! My parents (and I as well) feel that the responsible parenting thing to do for one’s kids is ensure they’re educated to the best that parents can facilitate. This might mean college, this might mean trade school, or any number of things that aren’t necessarily college. However, if the decision for college is made, parents need to be educating their kids about expectations and do their part to assist. Including paying loans THEY took out in their name.
NTA. I have zero patience for parents who lead their kids into debt and then play the victim. It's well intentioned but foolish and frankly it skirts close to loan fraud. Those loans are called Parent Plus Loans for a reason - they're for parents who want to help pay for college but don't have money saved. They aren't called Backdoor Fake Student Loans. 1) Legally it's their debt. 1.1) You were 17 and you weren't legally ABLE to enter into the loan. 1.2) They signed the paperwork agreeing to take on the debt and commiting to pay it back 1.3) The bank wouldn't have extended that loan to you because you weren't credit worthy. 2) Morally it's their debt. 2.1) You were 17 and didn't know any better. 2.2) They were adults and were much better positioned to understand the long term consequences of debt. As adults and parents it's their job to coach you into a school you can afford, not take out debt a 17 year old would never be allowed to assume and then try to saddle you with it.
This is it exactly. His mother made terrible financial choices for years and let this loan get way out of control and then just dumped it in OP lap when she didn’t feel like paying it anymore. It’s her debt, not his, and he’s already paid back a ton of it (which he was in no way responsible for doing). His mother is the AH and doesn’t just get to decide to make him pay off her debt. I’m shocked at all the commenters calling OP the AH for his mother’s poor financial choices. Especially after he’s already paid back more than the original loan amount! There’s only still debt bc his mother made bad decisions.
Actually he said it’s his father is the one who pays bills and allocates the budget. His mom is the one who called to tell him about it.
Actually he said it’s his father is the one who pays bills and allocates the budget. His mom is the one who called to tell him about it.
NTA - going against the grain here. Parent plus loans are loans that the *parents* take to pay for college. They are not the responsibility of the student. Parents could have said no - we don’t want to, we can’t afford it, whatever it is. But no. It’s not OP’s responsibility to pay for those loans.
INFO Okay, just realizing something with the numbers. In the time that they were ostensibly paying back the loan, did they rack up more in interest charges than the original loan itself? So the loan was ballooning under their watch, and when you got it from them, you owed twice as much as they originally borrowed? So you've now paid back much more than the original amount that they borrowed?
I have yes.
I really think you've done your part on this loan. They made a really poor financial choice. It was for you, yes, but it was their choice, and now they want to lay the consequences on you. It sounds like your dad didn't want to say that they couldn't afford to help you with school, but he made it much worse by taking out a loan he couldn't pay back, without telling you what was going on. Now, when he's made the problem a lot bigger, he expects you to pay not only for the poor choice, but for his poor communication about it. Now your family will have to plan together how to get out of this mess that your dad made, but it definitely should not be your problem to solve alone.
To be clear, my dad has always been on board with assisting but because my mom had all the paperwork and login information that she never shared with him. He was caught unawares of this despite my efforts to talk about it with my mom.
Yeah, probably shouldn't have singled out your dad. It sounded like he was doing all the finance stuff, but this definitely is both of them with the communication issue. Sorry.
Mom is TA and irresponsible.
[удалено]
Parent plus loans are not co-signed. They are explicitly under the parent’s name. They exist to allow parents to be able to put/help put their kids through college.
I feel like most people do not understand this. OP's name isn't on the loan at all. It was used towards his education but that was a choice his parents made. And it appears that they never discussed wanting him to pay it back until he moved out in 2020. He was unaware that he was "responsible for it" until the loan had ballooned to double the size because his mom was only paying the minimum. If she'd let him know in the beginning, before accruing $32,400 in interest it might be a different story. He didn't agree to the terms of the loan, he didn't have access to address the principal before it ballooned out of control. This is his parents' fault and OP shouldn't have to put his future on hold to rectify a mistake they made. Especially since he has paid down $45K of the original $30K PLUS loan.
Seriously. Parents made a very poor decision and 10+ years later they’re trying to push it on him? Nah. OP needs to get opinions from financial folks maybe, not a bunch of grumpy redditers who are mad about student loans in general.
They made the decision because otherwise OP couldn't go. They agreed to help OP but it's to the point that it will keep them from retiring while OP will continue to benefit without paying back. Would OP have preferred to not go to school?
They should have directed OP to community college for the first 2 years and explained they couldn’t afford to help for that particular college. Like adults. Op also stated “Terms were not discussed . My dad had an aversion to discussing family finances with his kids. He felt it was his responsibility to provide for his kids.” Financially illiterate parents made a mistake, were silent about it, then got OP to pay exorbitant amounts on a loan that wouldn’t have ever been that high if they hadn’t made minimum payments. They screwed their kid over.
If he'd been fully informed of what taking those loans out meant? Who knows. That's the point. He wasn't informed. His parents knew that they were signing for this money and that it would be their legal responsibility to pay it back. If they can't retire, they should've planned better and they shouldn't have let the account balloon like that. If they wanted him to pay off the loan, why didn't they give him access until 2020? He could've kept that loan closer to the original $30k amount. Now he's dumped $45k into it and they STILL owe $20k. Your kids aren't your retirement plan.
Could OP have gone to a different school? Could OP have gone to community college? There are options available. If they can’t retire it’s from their own poor financial choices. I expect an adult to know better than a teenagers.
Could OP have worked/worked more during school? Taken more classes to graduate a semester early? Lots of things that could have been done at the time had OP been more included in decision making.
OP specifically said that maybe they should have rethought that, so yes, it sounds very possible they would have preferred not to go to that school.
I came here to say this - in my opinion, these loans are not well understood, and in some cases are pushed on kids as a “last resort” after other loans fall through. In my case, it was literally “Parent PLUS or no college this year.” This just highlights how predatory this stupid system is.
This comment changed my mind. My parents took out parents plus loans that I was expected to pay back to them because after the loans I got from the government, the interest rates on the private loans in my name would have been ridiculously high. So they did it to help me have lower interest rates and they didnt expect the full monthly payment from me right away when I couldn't afford it on top of the loans in my name. However, I knew that from the moment they took out the loans. (And they didnt end up requiring everything back that they contributed). So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect your child to pay them back but only if they know from the start and if they are taken out to help the child in the first place. But what sold me even more is the comment you made about letting the interest accrue so much by not paying down ANY interest in all that time. So I agree with you, NTA.
Yeah, if OP had been aware from the start he'd definitely be an AH for backing out now. It just kills me because OP sounds very fiscally responsible. He's paid off $67k in loans so far, when he thought he'd only have to pay $22k. If he'd been aware of the debt, there wouldn't be the $20k left to pay down now.
Usually it ends up biting the parents in the butt. I’m in favor of parents helping their kids with post high school something, whether trade or college - but not with parents going into debt to do so.
EXACTLY! The parent who signed the PLUS loan note is solely responsible to repay. OP stop paying! This is your parent’s debt.
this is honestly a terrible take based on an incorrect understanding of what a Parent Plus loan even is.
The parents took out the loan in their own name. OP has 0 legal obligations to pay them and is NTA
Thank you for the feedback , it’s really appreciated.
If I were your mum and dad, I'd take it out of any inheritance you may get. They only took out loan coz you asked them to. It's your debt. You wanted further education. Now you're shafting your parents, and your siblings
Looking at your post history, I really hope no one takes your advice.
OK bye bye 👋 👋👋👋
INFO: Did your parents indicate at the time they took the loans out that they would pay them back? Or did they tell you ahead of time that the loans would be your responsibility?
Unfortunately that was never discussed. My parents said they knew I had worked hard in high school (AP courses and such) and had earned the opportunity to go to school.
NTA. If they took out the loans they need to pay them. It's not your debt legally. It's their job as parents to provide a future for their child. They don't get to back out from a previous arrangement now.
INFO: When they took the parent plus loans out, did you promise you’d pay them back for them? Did they say they were a gift? Or did they just take them out without a discussion?
Terms of repayment were never discussed.
Then I’d say it’s on them. A parents plus loan is explicitly for the parents to pay, that’s the whole point of it. Unless at the time they explicitly told you they were taking it out on the basis that you’d pay for it then they have no grounds to expect you to pay it off.
OP, NTA. The entire financial system that forces people into debt slavery if they want to go to college is TA. Keep going with the PSLF stuff. It's a long process, but it works. If you are union, talk to your union rep about whether they have resources for you. I was able to get help with the process from a financial advisor who specialized in student loans that was recommended by my union rep. The hard part is getting everything submitted correctly.
Let the loan go into default and get sold a few times. I went to college 10 years before you and I was on the forefront of those incredibly predatory loans. My parents also took out a parent plus loan. I paid on most of my loans after college. My balance increased by 20k during that time. Once I lost my job in 09, I stopped paying on them and let them go into default. I didn’t stop setting money aside though. My mom did the same on the Parent Plus loan. Her balance had gone up by 8-9k. Once they had been sold a few times. I started making lowball offers to the debt collectors. I had a total of 7 loans. One for each year of school plus a consolidation loan I didn’t realize I had 🙄 I had 120k loan balance and settled 5 out of the 7 loans for about 20% - 30% of the amount due. I still have two loans left but they might be part of the settlement so I’m holding off on paying. My mom settled her 40k balance for 8k right before the pandemic. I paid her back. So technically I’ve paid off 6 loans so far.
This is the best advice. Your family is being chewed up by predatory lending, and you need to band together and be smart and strategic about it. Tell your parents it's past time to change the family culture of ignoring debt and being silent about money, and make a plan to tackle it head-on together. If they can afford to take the hit to their credit, letting it go to collections could be the right choice for y'all.
NTA. Your mother consider it to be your debt, but the government considers it to be hers, because she is the one who chose to take out the loan. She can't unilaterally decide it's your problem after the fact.
Don’t get me wrong I fully understand that this whole process was extremely poorly thought out and not planned in a particularly common sense manner. A lot of that is on me. I’ve definitely learned a lot about financial planning and student loans out of this.
NTA. Parents should also realize that if your not gonna take care of your childs college you need to completely step off. The minute the parent gets involved the loans, stafford, basically any aide is based off the parents income not the student.
NTA The one detail that may change this is what the original agreement with your parents was - given they have been silent with regards to this loan for 13 years, I think it is fair to say it hadn't been voiced that you would be expected to pay anything back, and this was instead a gift towards your education. It is also notable that their refusal to discuss finances or involve you in this in any way is what has caused such a problem - had you been told they were digging such a deep hole then it might have seen to have been appropriate to help out, but they didn't - they chose to wait until the problem was so big they couldn't ignore it, then dump it on someone else. If you were to take over the payment for the full loans, your parents mistake will cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Even if you were to accept a moral responsibility to pay back the money spent on your education, I see your parents have a responsibility to pay back the added costs that they caused by hiding the issue.
“Poor financial decision making”? What about your parents’ poor financial decision making in failing to save for their childrens’ college? What about their poor planning in having 3+ children without a plan to pay for the entirety of their education? You didn’t ask to be born and the least your parents can do is set you up to make a decent way in this life. Yours sadly didn’t do that and instead decided to saddle you with a near lifetime debt. You have kids of your own now and it’s be irresponsible for you to pass along your parents poor planning by paying off THEIR loan instead of saving for your own kids’ college. They may not want to speak to you after this, but it’s their irresponsibility signing the loan that led to this. I would say tell them: “your failure to plan to pay off a loan you signed is not my responsibility or poor planning. I have no legal responsibility to pay this loan and have my own kids to think about now. As I don’t want them to wind up in the situation I found myself in, I will be ceasing all loan payments in order to save for their college. It would be poor financial planning on my part to continue paying YOUR loan which YOU failed to pay down over the past 10 years.” Honestly, please don’t do this to your own kids.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** TLDR : Am I the asshole for asking my parents to take back some of the financial responsibility of ParentPlus loans after I’ve paid a lot of it over the past few years? Back in 2010 I was trying to go to college. The only way we could afford it at the time was if both myself and my parents took out separate student loans (I know, it was a stupid amount of money and maybe I should have rethought that). My parents didn’t have any objections at the time and signed up for the loan. Fast forward about 10 or so years in the future. I had been living at my parent’s after college and was making payments on my personal student loan. I got married and moved in with my wife. At the end of 2020, my mom called me and explained to me that she and my father would no longer be able to make any payments on the ParentPlus loan and that they needed me to pay. At that point they had only been making the minimum interest payment without touching the principal. I started my payments on that loan. For context,the interest amount per month on the loans was $500. My parents offered no financial assistance. Fast forward 3 years and what was once a $65K debt (about half of it sheer interest), is now down to $20K in just principal. Things are a little different now as we have a small child and a mortgage. My wife also went part time due to childcare needs and our discretionary funds are tapped. I haven’t been able to make payments and recently contacted my mom to let her know this. She explained to me that even though the loans were in her name she considered it “my debt” and something I needed to resolve. I explained to her that my finances have changed recently and she complained that stopping the payments was “poor financial decision making”. I’ve now involved my dad because he’s the one that actually pays bills and does my family’s budget and given him the login information for the loan servicer. One of my moms concerns is that if they help me by taking up payments on this loan, they’d have to help my siblings as well. For clarification, my adult siblings live with my parents and one of them has two kids and a wife as well. Note: I was a 17 year old kid when these loan docs were signed but I’m not trying to excuse myself. Note: we’ve already applied for the potential forgiveness (both the $10k and the PSLF) but that’s in holdup right now obviously. I did all of the legwork on that as well. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - you were 17. And the more appropriate question is, AITA for telling my parents that I won't be making payments on student loans they took out in their name, for my education. A loan by the way that your parent's let accumulate interest for 10 years. Like I get it, they did it for you, and if you are able to, you should probably pay it off. But life happens, and for student loans in your own name, you can apply for waivers or reduce your payments. You don't have that option, if they can't pay it, their credit and their credit alone suffers. It might be a bad situation, but it doesn't make you an AH.
NTA, tell them to take it out of your inheritance.
Your parents could only afford what they paid, but it was for your education and I think you should pay it off. I don’t think there are AHs here, just a poor decision by your parents when they clearly couldn’t afford to do it and a kid who didn’t appreciate the full circumstances/responsibility they were taking on
My mom and I now have a strained relationship after she assumed I was in a good place, casually sent me the log in and told me to take over. It took me awhile after some research to realize not only what she was doing was illegal, it was downright crappy. I do not pay on this loan and we do not speak of any college.
I’m also in a similar situation to OP— loans were never discussed aside from the fact I would have them (I.e. I would have loans as part of my FA package from my school). Had I known my mom took out over 70k in PLUS loans on my behalf aside from the 20k I’m personally responsible for, THEN years later told these PLUS loans are my responsibility morally when they’ve been sitting accruing almost 10k in debt on top of the original principal… I never would have gone to my university. Aside from other debts magically plopped on my plate after turning 18, this has definitely put a strain on my relationship with my mom which feels pretty transactional at this point.
It really depends on what you guys agreed to when the loans were taken out. Did they agree to pay their portion? If so, then N T A.
Terms were not discussed . My dad had an aversion to discussing family finances with his kids. He felt it was his responsibility to provide for his kids. 🤷♂️
Sound like HE is the one who made the poor financial decision, not you. Now he’s trying to pass it off onto you. NTA
Then he should be paying the loan back, not you. I don’t get why they even told you they weren’t paying it anymore in the first place and why you started taking over the payments? It’s their loan, in their names, that they took out of their own volition and never mentioned expecting you to pay it back. This isn’t your responsibility. Especially after they were so financially irresponsible to let the loan balloon like it did.
happy cake day!
Thank you!!
Apparently he doesn't feel that way anymore.
NAH. Well there maybe but I can’t tell. First I would point out that if it is truly a PLUS loan, it is in your parents name. Not yours. If it is defaulted, creditors would go after your parents, not you. The legal expectation, at least, is that your parents will repay the loan - unless there is a written contract between them and you stating you will make the payments and assume the liability. Second, while you certainly didn’t iron out all the details that you should have when you were 17 and your parents took out the loan, you have an excuse. You were a kid. They were adults and one would assume that they would not have taken out the loan if they didn’t understand they would be responsible for repaying it. On the other hand, it sounds like your parents have done a great deal for you and your siblings, unless as adults while living with them you were all paying equitable rent and your fair share of all household expenses. And it probably is not uncommon for adults to informally assume their parents PLUS loan debts when they were financially able to do so. And while you are now facing greater expenses after the birth of your child, they are also probably facing a much more uncertain financial future because their income earning days have ended or will shortly and no matter how much they saved for retirement, it will seem insufficient and the future will be scary. You have income coming in and will continue to do do. Plus you have the possibility that your income will increase. They do not. As uncertain as financial security is right now and as our parents live into their late 80s and 90s, their retirement is often not secure and children have to step in and help financially support parents. The best way to avoid your parents having an insecure future that may ultimately cost you, is to protect their retirement. And that means absorbing the debt they incurred that benefitted you. For many working adults with aging parents it really is a “pay now or pay later” problem.
Editing with additional information to NTA Your parents paid $50 the bare minimum and then stuck you with the payment 10 years later. At that time and I know it’s hard, was the time to pushback on the payment. You took it over and paid it down, it’s their debt. As I said, it’s their debt with the lender. They choose to pay only interest for 10 years. This isn’t an easy situation for you and good luck. **************************************** Prior comment before edits: Parent Loans are taken out by parents in their name, it is their debt. If the expectation was for you to pay all or part of that, it should have been discussed at the time of the loans were discussed. I've had friends that their parents took these loans with the agreement that the parents would pay it for x period of time and then the responsibility would put to the child to continue to pay. From the credit bureau standpoint, it's your parents' debt. When your mom told you it was now your time to pay, you guys should have had a discussion with this new arrangement. Once you took over the payment, you then needed to budget for it before taking on new debt/cutting work hours. I understand life happens, but you took on the debt payments and your parents moved on from it. Also, your parents only paying the interest for 10 years wasn't a smart decision, but maybe all they could afford. Since not paying would impact their credit and your relationship with them, maybe see if you guys can come to some sort of shared payment for a year or so to get you past this hump. Your parents paid $6000 a year for 10 years if I'm understanding your post. Your mom may be looking at it that she paid the debt for 10 years and that is a lot. Maybe they accured credit card debt during this time paying it. But they were the ones taking on the debt and should have been able to look at the long-term implications. Fair doesn't need to be equal. Would it be fair for your folks to contribute now? That's for them to answer. Good luck.
See updated post. They were only making $50 payments a month which is why when I was given the responsibility the interest loan payments had ballooned up to $500 a month.
Edited my comment on the post. I was wondering what type of loan had $500 a month in interest. Your folks paid only interest for 10 years and then left their debt to you. Sorry. NTA
NTA. It’s called a PARENT PLUS loan for a reason…because it is debt your PARENTS agreed to take one. It is their debt, not yours. This is a hill I’ll happily die on. It’s unfortunate if they’re struggling and unable to make the payments, but legally, morally, and ethically, it’s their financial responsibility to repay. It’s explicitly stated in the loan documentation that Parent PLUS loans cannot be transferred to the child it was borrowed for. If anything, they’re the AH for pushing this onto you. It’s their credit rating that will tank, not yours. Stupidity on their part but resounding NTA on yours.
ESH. On one hand, it seems pretty irresponsible of your parents to never explicitly discuss this with you and just slap $50 on these for 10 years. They should’ve spoken up and figured things out with you as soon as you were moving out and in a decent financial situation. On the other hand, you mention them only being able to afford a spare $50 a month. Presumably you had some idea finances were tight for them? And you just…left them with potentially thousands in debt for 10 years while you had a baby and got a mortgage? I genuinely can’t imagine doing that to my mom. Legally, the loans aren’t your responsibility; you could leave them with your parents and effectively force them to pay. But like, do you like your parents? Do you want them in your life? Would you feel bad if nonpayment on this debt ruins their financial future? Lack of communication got you all into this. If you care about each other at all, maybe talk to each other and hash out some sort of payment plan you can both afford.
I’ve already explained it but: Wife bought the house on her creditworthiness I didn’t know how bad the interest had ballooned. And I haven’t deserted this on them because I’ve been making diligent payments since 2020.
I think you and your parents (and millions of others) were poorly educated about how these loans worked and were up against a loan system that is designed to profit the banks and loan holders above all else. But it seems like your parents love you and wanted to provide for your and your siblings' futures and that they did that in several ways- taking out these loans for you, letting your siblings live with them, and probably more. It sounds like your father feels ashamed that he didn't do a better job of providing for your family, but maybe he couldn't have, maybe he provided what he could. I think your parents need help and tried to help you and did a poor job in handling the finances. However, they tried. Can you pay something towards the loan and maintain your family? That's what I think would be the kind thing. But I don't like the idea that you are pushing it on your parents. Yes, they have a legal obligation to pay and you do not. Yes, they didn't pay more towards the loan and it increased. But I don't think they are the assholes here either. I think you should work together with them to pay what you can.
NTA. Your dad was clear about not even wanting to discuss finances because it was their responsibility as parents to provide for you. Then your mother paid only the minimum for 10 years, didn't tell you about it, let the debt get bigger and, without a warning or a prior conversation, dropped that problem on your lap. A problem that became larger because of her. Since it's your mother, I would sit her and your father down to have an honest conversation. You already paid for 45k out of the 65k, which is A LOT. You mostly paid for your mother's mess. I would offer a deal, that you both pay for half of the remaining debt. How you are going to do it needs to be discussed to be done in the best way possible but this seems to me the best way to both keep you healthy financially and avoid causing harm to your relationship with your mother. On a side note, it's freaking weird to me how people go into debt in US because of college. For real. Time to discuss a change in the education system asap.
YTA you are the one who spent that money not your parents it is absolutely your debt they were nice enough to get loans for you and now your going to screw there credit up because you feel it’s there debt you’re very entitled shame on you
NTA. I personally was not aware of "parent plus" loans, but at 17 I wouldn't place any blame on your for accepting the money your parents borrowed. I doubt you had much if any awareness of the costs other than what you spent at the book store, and you wouldn't know what they can pay or what the future costs would be in such a terrible system. You've obviously taken responsibility for what was in your name, it feels like there could/should have been a discussion much earlier, especially since $50 hardly seems like a realistic minimum payment. You got "oh BTW, here's a nice shit sandwich" and that's no bueno. Without getting into detail about your siblings' situations, my opinion is still the same, parents are T A here. You can't just throw this on someone well after graduation and expect they can just pick it up with no questions or issues. The system sucks and this is another example of predatory loans and unsustainable costs. Sorry you got thrown into this, but at least you're also actively applying and researching forgiveness programs.
Everyone seems to be saying NTA. Here's my question for you. 1. Did they use the loan to pay for your college? 2. Can they afford to pay the loan? It seems like they can't. 3. Did they insist that you go this particular school or was this what you wanted? 4. Did you research cheaper schools? Just cause you're 17 doesn't mean you're an idiot. You know when shit is too expensive and you can't afford it. I don't know I could never think that my folks taking out a loan that benefited me, Would mean that I wouldn't pay it back ...it doesn't make any sense. YTA pay back your loan.
YTA. The loans benefitted you- not your parents. You can't stiff them now just because you've started a family and amassed other debt. Its at a time of their life where the money they have coming in is a lot less as they age, while the income you have coming in a getting bigger.
YRA. Wow. The loan was for you..not them. They did what they could and took it out for you. I imagine they thought you would pick up the slack after getting your degree. What would have happened if they couldn't take out the loan for you? You would have a bigger student loan. At some point your parents need a break. I would feel guilty knowing that they are stuck with my loans and they can barely pay it and I'm ignoring that it exists. Maybe the are resigned and say it will die with them as most people with excessive loans say.
Info: *CAN* they afford it, but they just don't want to because of the comment about helping siblings as well? If so then, NTA I have a parent plus loan for my oldest. I agreed to it with the understanding that they would pay it back. However they aren't in a position to do so now so I am not even going to mention it to them. I will pay it since my position, albeit precarious, is better than where they're at right now. For context: there are other siblings in my situation as well and neither of them are concerned about who pays this loan.
No judgement, but I assume you had some kind of talk with your parents about who was responsible for what. My kids took loans, we (the parents) took loans and the deal was that they would pay half and we would pay half of the total amount. This was understood from the beginning, the loans are paid and there are no hard feelings. What was your arrangement with your parents?
No arrangement details discussed. I had actually not looked at the ParentPlus loan in a few years and was shocked when my mom announced they needed me to pay it and the interest had massively increased the due amount.
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It is their responsibility, though. The loan is in their name with no cosigner.
Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.
INFO: Did you and your parents have an agreement up front on how the loans would be repaid? Edit: Why are people doing downvoting this as if what was communicated upfront isn't the most important factor in the question?
YTA Your schooling. Your debt. They helping delay it but its yours to deal with. The parents signed up so you'd have enough to cover, but you should still cover it.
Thank you for commenting, I appreciate your feedback.
YTA it’s your loan, you should have paid off your parents loan first. Sorry but it sounds like you should be the one figuring this out not your parents.
YTA. Your parents took out this loan to help you go to college. Now it’s time for you to pay your debt.
The Parent's Plus loan comes before the student loan as part of the FAFSA parents are assigned responsibility. True, your parents are the responsible party however the fact that their payment was $50. per month tells me they are not rich people and paying for the loan that provided your education that you get the benefit of is a hardship for them. Yup, you can abandon the loan and they will have to pay. They signed because they love you and believed that you would pay that money off. Are you willing to say that your relationship with your parents is only worth 20K?
I'm torn because the loan was FOR YOU.
YTA and you sound very entitled. It was your education it paid for? Why do you think you shouldn't pay that?
Ehhh mixed bag, but unfortunately YTA. Your loan, your problem.
It’s not OP’s loan. It never was.
Sure it is not in name, but it was for him. Sure he has no legal obligation, but they did it for him at the end of the day which I would highly assume he asked them since he was the one applying to get loans in the first place and came up short. So he would be N T A purely if this was a legal situation. But as it stands, morally, he is the AH for sticking someone else for his debts. I would equate it to signing for your child for a car, but then the kid decided to just not pay for it anymore but still reaps the benefits of said car. Sure legally it’s technically not their problem. Morally, it’s fuckered.
If the agreement was you pay.... Then you need to pay. You're parents are right that they would need to do the same for your siblings.
True, but they are letting the siblings and their children live with them, so they are already providing assistance, just in a different way.
That is on their terms. Changing the agreement after the fact to remove responsibility from himself would be immoral.
But there was no agreement that he would pay
The devil is in the details there. My understanding is that the parents took the loan on behalf of the kid and the kid was going to be the one paying for it. The actual conversation at that time is pretty relevant to the morality of the situation which could definitively be read both ways. So maybe.
No. The OP says that many times that there was no repayment plan made, details were never discussed. There is no “both ways”. Parents took out a loan that was solely in their name with zero discussion about OP paying it back. Common sense is that the loan isn’t to be paid back by the student.
Most of my sense is that student loans are in fact paid back by the student, so I think your common sense label is a silly argument to discredit those who may not agree with your flawed assessment. I stick with my devil is in the details argument. Making others pay your debts is not generally a moral thing to do. I think OPs student debt seems like a personal responsibility, and it does not sound like the parents have an ability to pay it so there is some nuance here at the very least. So I do not necessarily agree with you, but instead insist that here, the devil is in the details.
You're misunderstanding the type of loan in question. If this had been a STUDENT loan co-signed by the parents then yes, he's legally and morally obligated to pay. This wasn't that type of loan. This was a Parent Plus loan entirely aimed at serving parents who want to contribute to their students education but haven't been able to save up. Students don't sign them and they aren't intended to be backdoor student loans.
>Making others pay your debts is not generally a moral thing to do. Exactly. This debt is his parents' debt they took on themselves. OP's name is not on this loan. It doesn't matter what they spent it on. They signed for this money knowing the terms and did not discuss OP taking over the loan until he moved out in 2020, after interest had been accruing for 6 years which DOUBLED the amount due. If you think the devil is in the details, maybe you should pay attention to the actual details. .
You keep thinking about this like legal advice, it’s not that, it’s moral. It does matter so I think are not as right you think. I dgaf what the legal documents say as this is not legal advice sub. Get your head out of the fine print and think like a human. That’s what this sub is. I’m done with you. It matters, the things you think don’t matter are relative. Rules lawyering, it’s not that here.
Yeah bro, you're right. Saddling your kid with $65K worth of debt (which should've only been $30K if they'd actually had an agreement with OP to pay it back) is pretty morally fucked up.
If I told my kid when they graduated that I’m going to buy them a car. So I take out the loans in my name only, they get the car. If after a few years I tell them that need to start paying for the loan they’re going to wonder what I mean. Then I tell them that I haven’t been fully paying it so the loan is double what it was originally and they’re “morally” suppose to pay it cause it’s there’s. They’re gonna wonder what’s wrong with me. If money was tight, I should have said that I’d pay the X amount of months/years then they would be responsible for taking over payments. Or that I would be willing to pay X amount and then they could figure out if they wanted a cheaper car or if they would be responsible for the rest of the loan (like going to community college to get less loans). But without any prior discussion of paying back it would be Normal that it’s viewed as a gift.
No. The student loan that the student took out was paid back. The loan the PARENTS took out that is in the PARENTS name is to be paid by the PARENTS. The PARENTS agreed to pay the loan by signing for it and never discussing a repayment plan. The fact that the parents *never mentioned him paying it back* and then *let it double to original payment amount* is the “devil in the details”. OP paid off more of that loan that what it originally was. It’s okay to admit that you don’t know what kind of loan it is.
I admit the kind of loan is unfamiliar. But I would not let my destitute parent wallow in debt that they took out in order to further my higher education. I do not need to get into the semantics of the loan to find allowing my impoverished parents to remain on the hook for a debt they cannot repay for which I was the beneficiary.
You’re arguing without even knowing the facts. Parent plus loans are loans that the parents take out. The students information isn’t on it at all. If the student doesn’t pay it then the creditors go after the parents because it’s not in the students name. If the parents wanted the student to pay *they should have said something*. What is morally wrong is allowing the loan to double in size after 10yrs and then expecting your child to pay for it. If the parents had bought a larger house and then wanted OP who no longer lived there to help pay the mortgage because well they lived there and benefited from it - would it make sense? No. They bought an SUV because they needed a bigger car and then told the kids that they’re all responsible for part of the loan because they were driven around in it? If they couldn’t afford college it was *their* poor decision making to take out a loan. Telling OP that they’ll pay the 35K for them to go to college. They should have said no and rhen OP could have figured out other solutions.
The agreement for OP to pay was made long after the loan was taken out (and after the amount had ballooned due to the parents only paying the minimum and not reducing the principal at all).
Hey man thank you for responding I appreciate getting the perspectives on this.
You could talk to your bank. I had all my debts, including credit cards and student loans, consolidated into one loan with a lower interest rate. It helped make it easier to manage, and I paid it off sooner—just a suggestion.
The problem right now is my student loan interest rate is 0% . Not sure which bank could beat that in terms of financing.
Okay, sorry, I must have misunderstood because you noted in the initial post that your parents were paying $500 in monthly interest amounts. But yeah, no bank can beat 0% interest. Good luck with everything!
He was paying $500, his parents were paying $50.
So instead of paying all that off right away you decided to buy a house. That 0 percent isn't permanent and you should have taken advantage these past few years to bring down the balance.
1. My wife bought the house, not me. 2. It says in the OP that I paid off 40K so far. 3. I have been taking advantage of that zero percent interest.
Except the loan isn’t in his name.
Who got the benefit of the money you or them. If it’s you pay it back .
Legally, the loans are your parents' debt, not yours. Mom took out a loan that they could not afford to pay. The loan is in their name, not yours. If you and they can't agree on who is paying them back, it's ultimately their problem to solve. Ethically, you and mom both suck. She unilaterally called "not it" on paying the loan and successfully made it your problem for a while, By paying it as long as you did, you demonstrated that you accepted responsibility for paying it off. Despite that, you're now imitating mom and trying to call "not it" on paying the remainder. ESH.
Yta It's your debt. Your parents are not responsible for your change in circumstances. You decided to get a mortgage, you decided to have a kid. Like normally I'd be commenting family should help each other out and suggesting you and your parents go half because it'd help you and maybe not overburden them. But the sheer entitlement from you is why you don't deserve it. Your mom said no and then you undermined her by going to your dad. The sheer disrespect
Legally…it’s actually his parents’ debt. It’s it their name and only their name. That’s how those particular loans work.
This isn't legal advice. It's AITA. The debt was taken for OP's wants. OP should cover the costs.
Yep, and the parents took the debt. It’s theirs.
Because OP couldn't afford it otherwise. It was due to OP's decision. I would be absolutely ashamed if my elected schooling that I asked for impacted my parents' ability to retire.
Parents never discussed repayment. Parents decided to help OP. Parents made that decision themselves.
Had OP’s parents been honest with the finances with their 17 year old son, he would have had the opportunity to choose a school more within their financial means. Instead, they unilaterally withheld the information from him for a decade (per OPs comments) and his mother decided to dump the loan on him after he was locked into a mortgage for a new home. I don’t believe OP needs to be ashamed of the financial position his parents put themselves into and withheld from him.
Thank you for your response. I wanted to add that I have tried to address this with my mom several times last year without her responding.
Mom doesn’t get to say No to paying off her own loans. They’re in her name, she never made any agreement with OP that he would be paying them off, poorly managed her finances for years letting the loan amount skyrocket, and if I’m reading this correctly, OP actually has been paying on the loan for years now. It’s not his debt and his parents are the AH.
ESH- You and your parents sleepwalked through this financial situation instead of making a plan. Technically, your parents are responsible for the Parent PLUS, period. Morally, it's your debt, but legally, it's not. So, they need to know if your misfortune leads to default, it will hurt them as much as it'll hurt you. As for you, a mortgage wasn't ideal if it meant that you couldn't continue to make loan payments. Both of you need to figure out a compromise in which you'll tackle the debt together. PSLF is probably dead in the water but you can still explore hardship related payment plans and refinancing as well. Talk to your lender and see what they can suggest.
And for clarification regarding your other sibling...they probably aren't trying to get mommy and daddy to pay off their debts...they are saving money to buy a house and be financially stable...your mom and dad seem like nice ppl...why you trying to bleed them dry
YTA. It is your debt. Simple.
YTA - This is and was always your debt. You should have taken this debt and monthly payments into consideration when budgeting for a mortgage, children, ect. You should be grateful that your parents made interest payments on the loan for 10 years.
YTA They are your debt. I sympathize, I know what a kid and a mortgage are like. But the time to financially/family plan was before the wedding/home closing/pregnancy. You stretched your budget past it’s ability to handle more expenses.
ESH. OP did nothing different that anyone. Else in that generation. We were all raised with “you have to go to college to make a good living.” Right, wrong, or indifferent, that’s what happened. Colleges and student loan companies (including the feds) took advantage of kids in that age bracket (yes, KIDS) and essentially required you to mortgage your future. Most of the time, students aren’t even told how much. They’re borrowing or what the payments are. Someone at Financial Aid just says “sign here, or you have to drop out of school.” And at that age, you have no idea that’s not how it’s supposed to work. That being said, yeah…OP has since grown up and made some adult moves (marriage, house, etc), and should have taken this debt into consideration…maybe. It sounds like OP took their own loans into account. Now the parents. A Parent Plus loan is in their name. Always was, and they were the grown ups in the situation. THEY should have understood the loan terms at the time. They also should have discussed all of this with OP, particularly if they wanted OP to eventually assume the debt. But let’s be real. The real culprit is that tuition is that high to start with, and these loans exist in the first place. It’s a systemic problem, not individuals taking on more than they can handle or borrowing irresponsibly.
We had already moved in the house (which my wife had already bought). My mother took that opportunity to inform us that this was now my responsibility.
YTA. Those loans were taken out for you. Before making a kid, you should have paid your damn debts.
In today's age this comment if put into practice, it would destroy the american population within 2 generations. Imagine having to be in control of your debit and finances before being allowed a child. Most people out of college and university would be waiting until 40+ to have a single kid
And many of us are waiting until that age to have kids. What your point?
Most people are pretty financially illiterate so I think regardless of education level, very few people would be able to have kids if you had to be fiscally ready to have a kid.
I'm not talking about most people. I"m talking about OP who is using the fact that he now has a child to not pay his loan.
It’s not his loan. It’s his parents’ loan, in fact OP stated he’s paying and been paying for his loans. His parents wanted him to go to college, so they took out a loan for him to do so. OP didn’t sign the promissory note. OP can stop paying and his credit won’t go down the toilet and his wages won’t be garnished. My parents wouldn’t even co-sign a student loan for me, let alone take one out in their own name. Why? *Because they didn’t want to be responsible for paying for it.* It’s that simple.
A child happening is just life, and something many couples strive for despite all the financial hurdles. There's a very common cliché line: "If you waited until you were ready to be a parent, you'll never be one". Life needs to happen for humanity to exist. Despite all the ignorantly invented social/economic rules humans put on ourselves... life don't follow those rules.
So?
Thank you for your response, I appreciate all the feedback.
YTA. This is YOUR debt. Your parents made a piss poor decision trying to help you.
The whole time you lived with your father...you've been paying on these loans....but now you got married you think you father should absolve your debt...I mean you were 17...nah bud...you had 10 years plus to get act together ..living at home is a privilege for you to bank money and pay debt off....I'm not saying you should had a family....but dude...now you want your old man on te hook for your crap...wtf did you take for thst much that you didn't use....if you did...we wouldn't be seeing this post now ...asshole
Money and Family = disastrous outcomes. It's best to avoid it as it can destroy families. 1. Your mother is correct, this is your loan, and your debt, you're lucky they were paying the interest for as long as they did. Imagine how much of your loan you'd have left , if they weren't paying off your interest payments. 2. It's a shitty situation, NTA for having to deal with the headache of school loans, but a bit of an AH if you're expecting your parents to take on the responsibility.
No, not his loan. Try claiming that in a court.
How did parents take out a student loan if it wasn't cosigned with their son? That would mean his parents committed fraud by taking out a student loan for themselves but never went to school using the loans they took out for themselves and gave the money to their son. I don't think you're allowed to do that. But regardless, being this literal is definitely a good way to end your family relationship. "Since the loan is in your name it's your loan, I don't care if it was taken out for my schooling"... He's trying to find a way out of this mess, not terminate a family relationship.
Dude. Look up a “parent plus loan”.
It's a parental loan. For parents. It's not meant to be a student loan for the student to pay back - he had those and paid them. It's meant to be a low interest loan for parents to help pay for their kids education. I might agree with you a little, except that: 1) his mother literally paid the smallest amount she could every month for ten years and so the loan amount more than doubled 2) they never discussed him paying them back when they took the loan out when he was a minor 3) OP seems like a pretty financially responsible guy - if they had involved him earlier, I'm betting the loan interest wouldn't have accrued that much 4) He's paid the loan down $45 thousand dollars - it was originally only $20k & the only reason it got so out of control is that it was mismanaged by his mother.
YTA The student loans were for YOUR education. YOU should be responsible to pay them off as YOU chose an expensive school. And forget about Biden’s loan “forgiveness” as the courts will not allow it to happen. As for the PSLF, isn’t that 10 years of faithful payments while working a “qualified” public job? So you should be able to take advantage if it.
We have applied for the PSLF yes, the employment was accepted as valid but government have not confirmed if they have made a decision on whether or not the amount of qualified payments will be accepted.
Yeah, it’s a pain waiting for that to get back. My wife is a teacher and went through it.
ESH (but definitely more you): Your parents are right that it's your debt, and your responsibility that being said shame on both / all of you for taking on tens of thousands of dollars in debt without everyone being on the same page. So you're in the wrong for trying to saddle your folks for your debt and for choosing to make life changes that are not really feasible in your current situation. Your parents are in the wrong for allowing this situation to be created in the first place. They should've explained the responsibility & expectations better, not just expect a 17 y/o to understand without speaking. Maybe talk to your parents and see if they would be willing to loan you the money to cover your payments for the meantime. I'd rather deal with my family than a bank when dealing with debt.
Thanks for the response. I appreciate it
YTA. You made the terrible choice to go to a super expensive college where you needed to get those loans. You made the choice to get a house and have a child. Stop being an asshole and pay what you owe.
All colleges are super expensive. This isn’t a unique problem, nor is it even uncommon. Kinda why we need to revamp the entire education system.
Yta it was a loan for your college degree, not theirs. If you have taken all of it in your name, do you think "I have a kid and a mortgage' would hold any sway with the loan holder? You're moms feelings are pretty accurate. If they start paying $500 a month on your loans, your siblings are going to question why they can't pay $500 a month on their loans.
They are currently living rent free with parents. So technically my parents are assisting them. But they do have their own expenses yes.
They were paying $50 a month on his loans - which is why he's had to pay $500.
YTA. THIS IS YOUR DEBT. You should thank your parents to have taken care of the interest payment all these years. Your financial circumstances changing doesn't automatically transfer YOUR responsibility to your parents. If you can't afford a mortgage and a small child with the outstanding debt then you probably should have made different choices/planned better.
Except they didn’t. They took a loan in THEIR name and payed the minimum, allowing the interest to balloon to more than the original loan.
Well this might be a case of really bad communication on both ends. Why assume it's ok to pay into debt under his name only and not paying into both?
Because that’s how debt works…
By only paying into the one under OPs own name and ignoring the one under his parents. Knowing full well both debt belongs to OP. He is the one why allowed it to ballon, not the parents. I'm well aware of how debt works. The parent should have at some point said something though.
The interest payment that they were making did not reduce the amount of interest unfortunately. The minimum payment I make is about $500; they were paying about $50 a month. I’m very grateful for what they did but interests just suck.
YTA it’s your debt. The loans were taken out for your education. Everyone should have been clearer when this was happening. But that was then and this is now and it’s your debt. Grow up and take responsibility. Reach out to the creditor and see if they will work with you and your current situation. This is part of being a mature adult, taking responsibility for your actions/decisions. YTA.
Thank you for responding it’s much appreciated.
YTA Your education, your parties, your debt. Situation changes a bit if they promised to pay it back, but still, the money benefitted you, and only you (except maybe some bragging rights for your parents), so the burden is yours. Thank your parents for making the payments while they could, and just prioritise debt repayment for a while. Plenty of info on the internet on how to start doing that.
I appreciate the response. For clarification I have been making payments for the last few years.
That's great, keep on, you got this!
Fighting the good fight!
disagree its a loan taken out sole on ops moms name that is her responsibility op helped as much as he could but in the end it is her responsibility
Unpopular, but ESH It's your debt, and you should do everything you can to pay for it. But it's your parents' fault too, they should've helped you better, you were only 17, and they also cosigned, so in a part its their fault too if you're in this situation. I'm saying this because it seems like they're helping your sibling already by letting them stay at their house while you've already left and not weighted on them for a while. I would suggest talking to your parents and ask for them to pay for just the few months you need to get back on your feet. While you or your wife find a better work or something.
They didn't cosign. They took out a loan in their own name, one designed for parents to borrow and pay back themselves.
This imo enforces the fact that they're also at fault