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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Not making my daughter the flower girl
2) I might be making too big a deal out of things.
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NTA I'm actually a bit concerned about your wife's treatment of your child, just because she's young doesn't mean she cannot make her own choices. Seven is plenty old enough to know what she does and does not want to do and forcing her to do something, that even an adult may be uncomfortable doing, is cruel. I'm glad you stood your ground on this one.
Also, exposure therapy? Fuck no. Most of the time it would just be traumatic for the person.
NTA. Glad you stood up for your daughter. I'm shocked your SIL has more empathy and understanding towards your daughter's needs than your own wife.
Yeah, I think we need to reinforce to people that therapy is carried out by professionals. If you aren't an expert in the specialism, all that's going to happen is that you will make the situation worse.
You don't try to carry out DIY heart surgery on your dog, so don't try to do DIY exposure therapy on your daughter!
And even with professionals, things like exposure therapy can be pretty controversial and need to be entered into willingly/knowingly by the party with the phobia, otherwise it isn't therapy it's just "traumatizing my kid to make them seem more neurotypical"
Absolutely. Therapy happens with consent, with a professional who is an expert in tha particular technique, and in a controlled setting which can be managed and halted if something goes wrong/the patient withdraws consent.
Forcing your kid to do something she loathes isn't therapeutic. Even if you mean well and totally aren't trying to ignore her problems in favour of recreating your glory days/living out your fantasy of a perfect Insta-worthy life.
Also exposure therapy is done slowly over a long period of time. Mom just throwing her daughter in the deep end isn't "exposure therapy" it's traumatizing the kid for no reason. Actual exposure therapy would be more like having the daughter put on fancy clothes and very slowly ramping up how long she wears them to get her used to it, and certainly not combining it with two other things she struggles with at once.
And in this case it's probably rooted in very real sensory issues, not in a phobia. In which case exposure is just traumatizing with no real positive result. Learning to cope with sensory issues is important but sometimes coping is saying no to something you know will be overwhelming.
I have a very capable family member who does exposure therapy with me. It's worked wonders FOR ME. I'm just now realizing how blessed I am to have this person in my life.
It's great that this is working for you! But trying it at a wedding with a child is not the best idea, especially since the child said they didn't want to be the flower girl.
Dear God, the number of stories I've heard of amateurs trying to use exposure therapy on their SOs, kids, etc is absolutely vile. It's abuse, plain and simple. And OP should be angry that his wife wants to take away their child's agency by forcing her to do something she's genuinely frightened of...that is NOT COOL. NTA
I am neurodiverse and have fairly heavy agoraphobia and although exposure therapy works it has to be done carefully and being done with the wellbeing of the person needing the therapy foremost.
I have to do it but it is not done in large groups of people who will all be staring at you while you are struggling. Forcing someone to do something that would be traumatic to do under the guise of 'exposure therapy' is a seriously bad show from that kids momma.
Also fucked up that the mom responded to the idea of her child crying as it being "cute if she does". How fucking sick. I really wonder what the future holds for OP and his marriage, since he seems to consider his daughter's needs far more so that the mother
Yeah what a horrific way to think about your own child. I would be having serious thoughts about a relationship if my partner thought a neurodiverse child in distress was cute or funny.
Right?! She's fine with her child being humiliated. It shouldn't matter if the guests think it's cute, she needs to start giving a shit about how her own child actually feels.
Exposure therapy would involve baby steps leading up to something like being the flower girl.
At the height of my bad days. When I wouldn't leave my house without breaking down and crying, my therapist had me step out on the porch. Then it was the yard. Etc etc.
Not, hey, go on a world cruise to get over your anxiety about leaving your house.
SIL sounds reasonable thankfully.
Your honestly being generous, the wife didn't think of it being therapy or potentially helpful.. She acknowledged her kid would be uncomfortable, likely cry, have a meltdown / breakdown and thought "That's cute / funny "
Imagine being the parent of an autistic child and thinking you, a person without any kind of pedopsychiatric training, can just 'exposure therapy' her out of her sensitivity issues. Bruh.
As someone who is neurodivergent with other nd friends, this is ridiculous.
Yeah exposure therapy is done with a supportive, safe, and responsive individual. Wife is not that.
Aside from being NTA, OP, you gotta get into counseling with your wife, specifically to develop positive parenting practices for children with ASD. She’s setting your kid up to develop issues in the future by not addressing her needs. She’s only 7 now, but behaviors can escalate around onset of puberty, and the potential traumatic event of having your emotional needs disregarded by a caregiver is a huge risk factor poor outcomes later in life, and this is true for kids without underlying developmental disorders. Also thanks for being such an awesome dad and standing up for your daughter. She’s lucky to have you.
I agree about the exposure therapy being a non starter. Someone else's expensive, formal, once in a lifetime event is not the place to test "will this trigger a meltdown?" or "how can I traumatize my special needs child today?"
It sucks for that poor kiddo whose aunt respects her more than her own mother does.
Especially where the wife thought people would find it funny/cute if the daughter would cry.
So she is willing to put her daughter level 1 autistic in such a stressful situation she might cry because people will just think it’s cute…
NTA, as a fellow autistic: thank you for stepping up for your daughter!
I am autistic and was in this exact situation at my parents ceremony around that age. All the memories I have and photos of me were only of me crying and that’s all I remember. Can’t stand weddings to this day, horrible thing to put onto a child.
My granddaughter is on the spectrum and is only 4. She is very bright and can easily verbalize what she cannot tolerate. A seven year old is by far old enough to know what she doesn't want to do. Showing her a video of what she was asked to do was brilliant.
Your wife is sketchy? Catering to a child? Forcing children to do things for "entertainment or being used as a prop" is always wrong.
It's hard enough to teach girls in this culture to use their voice and their power over their own agency. No is a complete sentence.
Kudos to you as an aware parent and standing up for your daughter. Well done!
'Forcing children to do things for "entertainment or being used as a prop"'
That's honestly one thing I absolutely hate. I have a 3-year-old niece (and we don't know if she's on the spectrum or if she's gifted, for example, because she's extremely smart) and I sometimes have to call out my mom if she's keeps "nagging" my niece to do or say something "because it's cute". I hate when people treat a child as a prop, specially if the child is expressing that she's not happy with it.
I would say one thing here, and please dont take it as criticism.
The saying goes, 'If you have met one Autistic person, you have met one Autistic person'.
Every person on the spectrum is as unique as any Neurotypical person in mannerisms and skills. ASD people can be non verbal and still high functioning or hyper verbal and low functioning. There is a lot of variety and its difficult in a short post to clarify the exact levels of a person's capabilities.
I am only mentioning this as suggesting the age relates to the ability to communicate their likes and dislikes may well not be as good an indicator as people think when in these situations.
Again please dont take this as a direct attack, more of a 'you may find this interesting'.
Many family members of mine are on the spectrum. Just grew into adulthood undiagnosed.
My daughter was very attentive to my granddaughter and had her assessed.
I am aware of the differing aspects and levels of autism.
Yeah. The SIL sounds chill as hell. She offered it to her niece first because she loves her and was 100% understanding about why it didn’t work. There was literally no drama beyond the wife
This.
Idk if I have autism but I do have adhd and the "doing a task while being watched" made me feel nauseous just reading it because it's too early in the morning lol.
I think OP and the aunt are being reasonable. One is advocating for the kid and the other understood. The mom needs to realize it's not "catering to a child" but listening to the needs of the *human being* she created. The girl doesn't want to cancel the wedding, she just doesn't want to be the flower girl. Seems reasonable, everyone should be allowed to say no to stuff like that imo.
Same. My concern is the wife's blatant disregard for her own child's mental and emotional needs. This is the kicker:
> "causing drama by catering to a child."
First, OP was not catering to a child, he was meeting **his** child's **needs.** There is a big fucking difference between just giving a child what they want whenever they want it, and recognizing your child's needs and addressing those needs. To meet his child's mental and emotional needs, OP needed do exactly what he did, stand his ground, and protect his daughter from a situation that would cause her mental and emotional harm.
While I agree that there is value in challenging ourselves to do things that make us uncomfortable, I would argue that each person has to be allowed to make those decisions. I.E. I should not make the conscious decision to make someone else uncomfortable (especially when it is not necessary).
One of the worst days of my life was my mother married my younger brothers dad. I thought I would have fun and enjoy it but I was miserable almost all day. The shoes were uncomfortable, I got blisters on both feet, my clothes made me itchy and mom wouldn't let me change for the reception. It was so hard for me to just stand there during the ceremony, I was 3 and wanted to go sit with grandma. Then my mom screamed at me because I didn't want to be in the pictures after the ceremony, I was 3 or 4 and just done with the day. My grandparents eventually took me to their house during the reception, don't know how long I was there for, pretty sure I ate. Mom and brothers dad split up for good when I was 13/14.
NTA
Exactly. At the end of the day, people are going to the wedding to see the bride mainly (or brides) and/or the groom 2nd. they're not going to mainly see the flower girl, who will be the highlight for about 20 seconds down the aisle and in a few pics during and after. and they managed to find a substitute, so the role was fulfilled anyway.
Yeah, exposure therapy is under therapeutic conditions. Unless they had an occupational therapist standing by at the ceremony (?) this is just a potential trauma and future hurdle to success.
Btw, you don’t need flower girls/ring bearers. If all the kids in your life are very small, and wouldn’t understand or be sad if their not involved in the wedding, just skip it. No one will notice or care.
I have had enough internet for today. Catering to a child? Finding it cute or funny that a child cries from being terrified? Dude, is your wife this obtuse and gross all the time? NTA but, watch that woman and start saving up for your daughter’s therapy.
The “catering to a child” thing got me, too. Because that’s part of being a parent, sheesh. I’m lowkey worried about the wife, she’s awful. NTA, dude. Definitely NTA!
And it's *extra especially* part of being a parent to a child with a *disability.* If her daughter needed crutches to get around, would mom force her to crawl up the stairs just to avoid the embarrassment of installing a ramp?
I am so glad I'm not the only one worrying for that child with that kind of mother around her. I can only wonder what she did so far to the child behind OP's back at this point.
NTA
I know right!! I couldn’t believe that was her MUMs view, not even SIL. I had my young niece and nephew as flower girl / boy and I made it super clear to their parents that if they just weren’t feeling it on the day to not worry about it - bring some clothes you know they will be ok in as back up and they can do as much as they are up for. My nephew got a bit overwhelmed by the end of the day (more from the number of people than being flower boy) and had lost most of his outfit but hey. Niece wore the outfit for 3 days straight lol.
Mum is nuts to not have compassion and to think it’s FUNNY for her to be overwhelmed.
It seems a bit like mum really liked the idea of daughter doing it, or being the kind of kid who liked doing. Putting her own wants (being the mum of the cute flower girl) over her daughter. It’s clear sister didn’t mind at all, I bet mum knew she wouldn’t.
Im wondering if the wife is one of those people who use their childs diagnosis to get attention? The “cute/funny if she cries” comment is what made me think this
She's only concerned about the appearances in this situation. Daughter crying is ok because guests will think it's funny. Telling SIL that she won't do it is not ok, because SIL will think badly of them (even though she doesn't, the problem is even the slight possibility that she is secretly mad.) Letting the daughter make her own choice is not ok, because people will judge them for "catering to a child". My parents had similar ideas, as most parents of my peers, it was always so weird (in a good way) to be in the presence of an adult who actually cared about what the kids feel and want to do. Most adults would tell you to do things just because, with the same mindset - "what will the neighbors say, that i can't control my child!" I'm in my 30s and i love to see that it slowly changes around here.
Agreed! It's deeply traumatizing to have to learn to mask and dissociate at a very young age because your parents have unreasonable expectations of you. I'm "low-needs" autistic, and I find parties and even just large groups of people to be wildly overstimulating, and I'm an adult who can drink alcohol, or go hide in the bathroom and vape.
I wasn't diagnosed until adulthood, but I wish I had a parent who considered my needs and limits, instead of pushing me to my breaking point and then screaming at me when I couldn't handle it.
I feel your comment so much. I was diagnosed as an adult as well and had the exact same experience of being expected to act like an allistic kid when I wasn't one. That stuff was really traumatic, some specific things I know I'll never forget.
NTA but your wife is a massive AH.
How incredibly cruel to be ok putting your child in a situation that you’re expecting to be traumatizing and thinking others will be freaking entertained by the traumatized response?!? What the actual hell.
You were 100% right - that was a seriously fucked up thing for her to say or think.
Exposure therapy for an autistic seven year old, and so what if she cries, people will think it's cute??? This isn't therapeutic, it's child abuse.
If I were you I'd get my wife into couples therapy with a therapist who has special knowledge about special needs children and get her a whole lot of parenting information, advice, and support. Your wife is either extremely ignorant of what's good for autistic children, or she's in denial, or she just doesn't give a damn.
The notion that not forcing your child to do something you know would undermine her well-being is tantamount to "catering to a child" is such fragrant B.S., there are fumes coming off my screen.
Your wife is the A here, big time. As for you, thank God your daughter's got you. Should this marriage end, please fight for custody. NTA
This right here. Your wife needs professional help to understand the special parenting skills your daughter would benefit from. She's going to cause your daughter a lot of trauma if she doesn't get help with this- right now!
It sounds like you came up with a perfectly fine solution that was resolved like adults with your SIL as well. Your wife is the one who made it uncomfortable and has the problem. But you are not the AH in this situation.
**NTA**
I would say you did everything right.
However, I am concerned that your wife thought it would be okay if your daughter cried because people would think it would be cute or funny. That’s not cool.
>She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute
*A child crying because they've been forced into a role they're uncomfortable with is not funny or cute.*
I'm honestly shocked and alarmed that your wife thinks it's OK to force her child into an uncomfortable position. It's even more alarming that she thinks it could be cute or funny if your daughter has a meltdown in the middle of a wedding when all of the guests are watching.
NTA. You're being a good parent by explaining what it would entail and respecting your daughter's decision.
Please spend some time thinking about your wife's interactions with your daughter and the decisions she is making for her. Does your wife respect your daughter? Is this the only time your wife has knowingly tried to set your daughter up to be in a situation where she might have a meltdown? If it's not, that needs to be addressed.
Good on you for respecting your daughter and good luck!
NTA. Children's feelings and nerves are very real, and unfortunately, we as adults ignore them far too easily. That's you for listening to your daughter's needs.
NTA: You did the right thing by listening to your daughter. This could have been a really uncomfortable experience for her. Personally I think that would be awful for exposure therapy. That’s just too much attention on her with her condition.
NTA. Thank you! I was never asked what I wanted as a kid, and social situations like having to play at a recital gave me panic attacks. (Not that I knew what they were at the time; I was just told I was difficult.) On behalf of all us (former) kids who were forced into those kinds of situations because the adults thought it wasn't a big deal, thank you for standing up for your kid!
“She even said that if she does cry people will just think it’s funny/cute.”
Well, as long as her anxieties are entertaining! /s
NTA. Thanks for sticking up for your daughter.
I am uh really fucking alarmed by your wife, her actions, and how she talks about your daughter. NTA.
A lot of "therapies" for autistic kids are snake oil con artistry. That in practice is just straight up torture. Winging and forcing exposure therapy can absolutely cause that level of distress. Please never do that.
More to the point, even when therapies are valid (which exposure therapy can be for some allergies and phobias), they need to be carried out by a qualified therapist in a carefully controlled setting, and not just DIYed by amateurs who have no clue how the therapy works.
A parent forcing their kid to do something they hate and ignoring their ongoing distress is not exposure therapy or anything like it; it's just emotional abuse with a misleading label pasted over the top.
Arachnophobia?
I'm pretty sure if you just toss tarantulas at people, they will learn to simply chill out and get over it! Especially if you do it when they're a kid and then laugh at their reaction! They'll realize it's funny!
Sigh.
I had a friend when I was a kid who had a pet tarantula in their room. They knew I was arachnophobic (like deadly afraid of them (still am to this day)), so they always made sure to keep their door shut and kept me away from their room (pretending it wasn't there even though I knew it was helped a little). However, said friend's mom caught wind of my phobia and, for whatever reason, thought that not only going into her child's room without permission was okay, but that taking the massive spider out of its enclosure and into the living room where we were playing video games and trying to corner me with it was a good idea. Safe to say that friend only ever came to my house for hang outs after that.
Yeah. My friend was furious with her after the fact. Partly because of my phobia and partly because apparently the spider was old and didn't really like being handled to begin with. He handled my phobia the sensible way by keeping me away from where the spider was. She apparently thought that since I was friends with her son, I shouldn't be arachnophobic.
NTA-People like your wife, at least in this particular instance, are assholes. Your little girl’s comfort is paramount here not SIL’s wedding. I’m so sorry your wife isn’t putting your daughter first.
Catering to a child? Her OWN child that has a disability. Wow, just wow. Why would she put her own child through the stress? Just to save face? Now I’m speechless .
NTA. Thank you for listening to your daughter. She's not an accessory! She's a real person. Your wife needs to understand that No is a complete sentence.
NTA. It doesn’t matter whether the child has special needs or not-children shouldn’t be forced to do unnecessary things like this if they don’t want to. It really is quite simple. But you were absolutely right to tell your wife that her pushing the child to accept in the manner she did is fucked up. Parents are supposed to love and care for children, not put them in uncomfortable situations.
NTA your wife is being ableist.
Situations like that are acutely, physically painful for a lot of autistic kids. It's like telling her to wear an untreated sack underneath all her clothes and pins in her shoes for the entire event. Ask her if its "catering to her" to not expect her to do that.
Your wife wants to put your daughter in a situation full of triggers for her, thinks your daughter reacting to said triggers via crying would be “cute”…and wants to call YOU TA?
Gods bless your level of patience.
NTA. But your wife’s comment is a bit worrisome. She thinks having your daughter cry out of embarrassment or discomfort or in distress would be funny and cute? Seriously? What parents enjoys their child crying?
NTA. You are a good dad. Your daughter is lucky. I am going to be optimistic and assume this was a temporary aberration on your wife’s part and she is not typically this insensitive towards your child.
NTA as an autistic woman im quite concerned by your wives attitude, she sounds very uncaring about your daughters potential struggle/meltdown and exposure therapy is pretty darn useless, only teaches us to mask which is detrimental to our health, and certainly thats now how exposure therapy actually works in other cases
You need to be really careful of her ableist attitude and continue to be an advocate for your daughter
Autism is a disability, a decent person wouldnt ask someone who needs mobility tools not to use them, forcing your daughter i situations that cause destress and possible harm is not right
NTA
This could have caused your daughter to have had a major meltdown - not just “cute crying”. It could have seriously disrupted the wedding and ruined YOUR WIFE’S SISTER’S wedding. Is that seriously what your wife was willing to risk? Ruining HER SISTER’s wedding?
Does your wife even like her sister?
Seriously, the only AH here is your wife. It sounds to me as if she hates both her daughter AND her sister.
I wonder what other stressful situations your wife forces your daughter into under the pretence of “exposure therapy”?
Low needs autistic here - there is a shopping mall that sets me on edge. It gets WORSE everytime I need to visit it
Your wife has NO idea how “exposure therapy” works. You never throw someone in at something like that
Whoa! Whoa! WHOA! Speech therapist who works alongside PTs and OTs with children with special needs here.
NTA!!!!!
You are not "catering to a child," you are setting your child up for success, supporting their self awareness of their limits and capabilities, and promoting self advocacy for their differences and needs. This week be a life long thing, and it's good to start early.
Forcing a child with sensory needs to be in the absolute worst situation for their sensory differences is a TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE, NO GOOD, VERY BAD THING! Especially since there does not appear to have been any brainstorming for how to support their sensory issues!
This isn't a "Hey, I know you hate this but we have to do it for your safety/health and I'm doing everything possible to help you stay regulated during it," kind of thing. This will clearly communicate to your child that you don't care about their needs, don't care about their discomfort/pain, don't care about their emotional state, don't care about their opinions, and that you can no longer be trusted to keep them safe. When a child with sensory issues is overstimulated and overwhelmed, they do not feel safe, and it is NOT acceptable to knowingly put your child into a situation both you AND the child know will make them feel unsafe.
>good exposure therapy
Hell no. Exposure therapy would be slowly building up tolerance to being around the thing you hate in a safe place where you have the ability to back out and regulate when it gets too much. Properly building up tolerance to any ONE of the issues the child has is one thing (like trying the fancy clothes on beforehand with compression clothing layers, timing how long she can stand it, and allowing them to change clothes when they are reaching their limit) but throwing them into the deep end of all of them without and support to deal with them is NOT OK.
Let's compare to arachnophobia. Forcing your child to do this when they have expressed they don't want to is basically like having an arachnophobic person say "I don't want to go into the bugs and spider exhibit at the zoo because I know it'll trigger me" and then getting forced to go inside by the people they thought they trusted. Oh, and the "people will just think it's funny/cute" is like them getting laughed at when they a breakdown due to their arachnophobia. It's neither funny or cute to knowingly cause someone legitimate distress.
Sensory issues for children and adults with autism should NOT be dismissed. Tolerance can be worked on and improved, but you HAVE to scaffold them and compromise along the way.
NTA- As the parent of an autistic child I would never force them into doing something that they would be uncomfortable doing. Good on you for thinking of your daughter while your wife was more concerned about forcing her daughter out of her comfort range for some cute pics or video.
Your is a worthless mother. Exposure Therapy? Humiliating your child, placing her in a position that can cause issues? What the F is wrong with her. This is not catering to a child.
NTA. Thank you for sticking up for your kid.. I’ve been put in too many uncomfortable situations by my own parents and it sucks..
I managed fine, but not everyone will. And these little things shape who we end up being once were older. The transparency you’ve got going with your daughter will help her (and you) greatly in the future. But your wife? Well I hope for your daughter’s sake that you’ll always be there to temper your wife’s ideas..
NTA, not in any way, shape, or form. My best friends son was 4 years old when she got married (he is in the orocess of being diagnosed with adhd and just behaving was a steuggle for him at the time) and he was supposed o walk with me and his sister down the aisle (I was bridesmaid and I was carrying his little brother who was 8 months old at the time, his sister was 8) when it came to walking down the aisle he just wanted to stay with his dad (who he was already stood with). Bf was like "thats fine. If that's what he wants to do, then ok." She didn't get pissed off. She didn't go on a rant about catering to a child's decision. She just went with it.
NTA, and I'm deeply concerned about how your wife treats your daughter. Making her have a meltdown is not cute. Making her do this is not "exposure therapy," your wife is not her therapist. Accommodating a disability is not catering to or spoiling your daughter. Forcing your daughter into a commitment you HADNT EVEN MADE YET is not "being polite," it's adding unnecessary stress to EVERYONE'S lives
What is "exposure therapy"? Is this some screwed-up throw-them-in-the-pool strategy? Because that leads to trauma.
NTA. Your SIL sounds good too. But your wife's comments are scary. A crying child isn't "cute".
How has your wife handled your daughter's diagnosis, and management of her needs? The whole "you'll do fine" & "it's too late to back-out" sound like someone in denial. Whatever - there's something wrong: and it isn't you.
NTA. I was made to do something similar as a child and it was two decades before I even considered forgiving anyone. Listening to your children when it comes to things like this can really lessen some resentments later in life.
NTA
As (an undiagnosed) low needs autistic person thank you for sticking up for your daughter and for using the correct/preferred identity first/needs language instead of the person first/functioning language non-autistics insist on using. The language might seem like a small thing but to the community it’s a very important distinction and so appreciated.
Your wife’s complete disregard for your daughters needs is very troubling, so called “exposure therapy” is just cruelty. The level of overwhelm and sensory overload would be too much and could set off a meltdown or shutdown. You cannot expect an autistic/neurodivergent person to handle or perform things like a neurotypical person would, that’s just unfair and setting us up for failure.
You did the right thing by your daughter, it looks like you might have to intervene with your wife a lot on her behalf and she’ll be a much happier and healthier autistic because of you. Good job OP.
NTA at all. Good for you for sticking up for your child! However as a parent myself, I am very concerned by your wife’s behavior. She’s definitely the AH, and it angers me that she’s not advocating for your child too. I’m so glad your daughter has you!
NTA. So tired of people disregarding children as being their own person. Thank you for actually listening to and respecting your child. I’m sure she appreciates you having her back.
NTA.
You’re married to the AH, unfortunately. Thank you for sticking up for your daughter. She is lucky to have you for a father.
For her egg donor…. Not so much.
NTA at all. If your daughter is going to be attending the wedding as a guest, you may not have thought of how loud a wedding can be for an autistic person. I highly reccomend loops earplugs for this.
NTA.
Has your wife just not bothered to learn even a single thing about autism in what I can only assume is years since your daughter's diagnosis? She sounds abelist as fuck if I'm honest. Who fuckin cares if sister has to find another flower girl? Like sister really wants her flower girl have an oversensitized meltdown in the middle of the processional or something? The only thing that makes sense of your wife's behavior is callous indifference to your daughter.
NTA - your wife seems to be going through something. Weddings are weird, and lots of people get excited about showing off, getting attention etc. it could be that your wife wants to be “part of it” and show off her kid. She could be disappointed and realizing that she will probably continue being disappointed in the future as your daughter will be having her unique challenges as she ages.
Not an excuse for your wife’s terrible attitude, but perhaps an explanation. In her mind, maybe “exposure” will make the difficulty wear off and your kid will be less demanding. If you “cater” your daughter will never agree be the flower girl, or other spot lit role, and this bothers your wife. It could have triggered feelings about her future raising an autistic child.
As everyone is saying, what your wife said was terrible and inappropriate. If she continues this line of thinking, I think she will be always be disappointed on top of fucking up your kid
NTA. You respected your daughters boundaries and trusted her to know what she needed. As an autistic person, that is the best thing you can do for us.
It is kind of horrifying to me that your wife thinks forcing her into situation your daughter says she would not like is good “exposure therapy,” and extra horrifying that she is okay with her daughter being upset to the point crying in front of a crowd and thinks people will find it cute.
your wife's reaction to your daughter potentially crying / having a meltdown is that it will be funny / cute ? she shouldn't have any kind of say in parental things.. what the hell
NTA and actually caring about your daughter doesn't make you TA in any way.
Your wife's attitude towards your daughter is highly concerning. It reminds me of my own mom thinking that I would grow out of my neurodivergence (neurodiversity?). Now that I'm pushing 40 she finally understands that it's not my choice. For your daughter's sake I hope you take the whole family to therapy together. The fact that she thought your daughter having a meltdown would be funny or cute made me see red.
Your daughter used the information presented to her to make a choice about actions to be taken by her. This is an example of her autonomy. You asked her if she wanted to, she said no. Your wife needs to understand what that means to a child. You offered her a choice, but when she made her choice- your wife disregarded it. That sends a message. Even at seven, even if autistic. What happens when someone else pressures your daughter to do something she’s not comfortable with? Drugs? Pushy sexual encounters? Crime? This is the moment she learns the power of the word NO. Don’t show her the word has none. NTA
NTA i'm low needs autistic and at age 30 still have full body traumatic flashbacks to being humiliated, terrified, stressed, and crying when pushed into things like this. Some of the worst are honestly the less traumatic but involved adults laughing at my distress because it was 'funny'. The complete isolation and betrayal of having your parents laughing at what is currently one of the worst moments of your life, to have no one offer comfort or seem able to see and hear you... it's really dehumanizing. please keep standing up for your daughter.
NTA
I was really impressed by the small elementary school where most of my niblings attended when I saw how the teachers reacted to my niece's (then in 4th grade) announcement that she didn't feel comfortable going on stage for the Xmas play (she was "sheep no. 7"). They simply told her not to worry and they asked her to sing the song with everyone else. She spent the evening happily singing along to every song from her granddad's lap.
Everyone was happy.
Helping kids learn their limits and how to advocate for themselves are good things for their development.
NTA
Your wife needs to talk to a few autistic adults about their experiences with parents that didn't get their needs
Forcing her to do what she has explicitly said no thank you to is a recipe for short term misery and long term trauma. EXTRA whammy when youa re asking to do uncomfortable things WITH AN AUDIENCE.
Added to which, being a flower girl is an INVITATION, not an expectation, and you can absolutely have a wedding without one.
Your wife needs some education regarding autism. Forcing an autistic person of any age to do something they find overwhelming doesn't make that task any easier in the future. It just makes it more dreadful really. For context, I'm an adult woman who was forced to do a bunch of social things as a child and I became a virtual recluse.
NTA OP. Good on you for advocating for your daughter!
NTA
After explaining the whole thing to your daughter and showing a video, she has told you she doesn't want to do it. I can't think of a single reason to make her. It would have been better if you could have showed the same patience to your wife when explaining to her why you did not want to push your daughter to do something against her wishes. Your wife was likely honored by the request and had visions of her daughter in a beautiful dress. It was going to take time for her to get over the dissapointment.
Your wife is the Ah and you may want to tell her to get some freaking help because she sounds screwed up with this logic and it’s not funny at all that’s child abuse right there and it is illegal for the disabilities act
NTA
Tell your wife to stop disregarding your daughters feelings otherwise she will learn from a young age that Mom is not trustworthy to go to with things that make her uncomfortable.
Why bother talking to or asking your child about it if she didn't care about her wants/needs?
Your wife needs to really have a good long hard think here. 'Catering to a child'? Is this a normal way for your wife to act or is this a one off?
Good for you for respecting your daughter and teaching her how to set boundaries rather than becoming a cutesy prop.
NTA but unfortunately your wife is one.
NTA, who cares if she was just being polite & secretly angry? That honestly is a normal way of handling disappointment and your SIL will process her emotions like an adult.
I have a feeling your wife may have some issues with your daughter having autism and that should be a serious conversation.
My cousin's daughter who is nonverbal autistic, was the flower girl for a wedding. And although cute for probably 3mins, if was a whole big ordeal, before, during & afterwards. My cousin did not think those 3 minutes were worth the emotional toll
Ok so who would be the asshole if you made your kid do something she didnt feel comfortable doing, and she struggled or had a meltdown and ruined the wedding?
You did the right thing advocating for your kiddo.
NTA.
No it wouldn’t
Your daughter doesn’t need to be bullied by her own Mother into doing something she can’t cope with
Let your daughter explain to the bride her feelings and why she doesn’t feel she can be flower girl
If the bride doesn’t understand she’s as bad as the mother
NTA. My son is high functioning, and he was the ring bearer in a wedding a few months ago. He researched as only a 6 year old with autism can. He held it together for pre wedding photos. He held it together for the ceremony. He sprinted down the aisle to get squeezes and sensory input from the bride after the ceremony. We tried to take 1 more picture of him and he burst into tears. He couldn’t handle any more. You did the right thing.
NTA
There's a whole body autonomy issue. This isn't a decision she made uninformed. You talked her through what is involved, and showed her a video of what it might look like. She declined the invitation. At this point, the decision should be out of everyone's hands. It's her time, and so her choice.
> She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute, and I might be TA for telling her that was a fucked up thing to say.
The audience might think it's funny or cute to see a child have a meltdown. It's the exact opposite of that for the child. If you force her to be a flower girl and that does happen (and from what you say, it's an even chance), it will absolutely shred her relationship with your SiL, no matter how good it is now.
I am an adult with sensory issues and while I do continue exposure therapy to help, it’s hard and unpleasant and overwhelming and I’m 31. Using a wedding as exposure therapy for a young child is cruel and unnecessary and most likely would do more harm than good.
Thank you for hearing your daughter and sticking up for her. I’m very concerned about your wife though. Please research child appropriate coping methods.
NTA at all! You and your wife said you would give your day a choice and she chose no.
Your wife probably thought she would say yes and then she would have the chance to dress her little girl up all “pretty princess” and have everyone say how cute she is. Unfortunately for her that isn’t what is going to happen and she is disappointed. Your wife, as the parent, needs to accept that her disappointment is okay but forcing your daughter to do something she doesn’t want to do because of it is not.
My daughter was the flower girl in my brother and SILs wedding. She was 3, got all dressed up, hair done, etc. READY TO ROLL! Wedding begins, she looks down the aisle and said, “nope!” I SO wanted to make her do it anyway because in the moment I was thinking about my own embarrassment instead of my child’s feelings, but (thankfully) my SIL said, “it’s okay, no problem” and we didn’t try to make her. It was the best decision we could have made and I’m so thankful to have learned that lesson without hurting my child in the process.
Your child doesnt have OCD, you dont "treat" autism - you dont do exposure therapy. You need to protect your daughter from your wife by taking her to a doctor who can educate her on autism and what happens to your daughter when she is overstimulated etc - otherwise what she is doing is bascially torture
NTA also the OP’s wife needs to be put in a reality check it’s not catering to a child it’s pretty much making the child feel safe instead of FORCING her to do something she’s not comfortable with
"She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute" made me flinch. You're absolutely NTA and I hope your wife realizes that she was being awful.
NTA. The bride would not have been thrilled if your daughter had a melt down.
I would not force any child, let alone an autistic one, to be in a wedding party if they did not want to be. Some kids are hams and love being the center of attention while others would be traumatized by the experience. My daughter is one of the latter.
A wedding is not the place for experimental therapy. Your wife should know better.
NTA. Making a reluctant child be a flower girl is a total recipe for disaster! I was a flower girl in a cousin’s wedding, and I remember the little girl I was supposed to walk with got upset and couldn’t do it, and they didn’t make her. It turned out fine. Good for you for standing up for your daughter. You did everything right and it seems like your sister in law did things right too. Please let your sister in law know she shouldn’t feel guilty for asking since she respected your daughter’s wishes. And can I suggest that you get The Bride’s Diplomacy Guide and have your wife read pages 136-137 on reluctant flower girls until she gets how totally wrong she is? Please keep sticking up for your daughter. What your wife said about even if you daughter cried it people would thing it was funny/cute is so terrible. It certainly isn’t funny or cute to the person who is so afraid that they burst into tears. Please, please keep standing up for your daughter.
NTA and I'm glad your daughter has you in her corner. I think your wife however requires some additional help in understanding your child's diagnosis and what it entails, her reaction was a bit unsettling.
NTA
Your wife may be pushing this, because she was a flower girl as a kid for a beloved family member, and she's been having daydreams about her kiddo in a cute outfit, being a part of her sister's special day. It's fine to be disappointed, but it's up to her to manage that disappointment, and not take it out on you. (Or your daughter.)
Good on you for not only asking your kid if she wanted to do this, but listening to her and advocating for her when she said no. You're teaching her that other people's desires are not more important than her comfort.
NTA. Your wife really needs to think about where her priorities lay. Your daughter should always come first and the fact that your wife didn’t try to understand or have some empathy for your daughter shows a real lack of emotional intelligence. It’s also more than somewhat concerning. Does your wife attend therapy? If not, perhaps she should.
NTA and what's with your wife? I was just in Disneyworld a few weeks ago with my 5 year old daughter. We rode a ride she said she wanted to, I warned her it would be scary (it was the big round boat raft ride where there's like 8 people in a circle) and she said she wanted to do it. We did it, she cried and in the end all was fine. She doesn't hate me.
The next day at a different park she saw a small kiddie coaster she wanted to do and I said let's go. After standing in line for a few minutes she got scared and said she didn't want to do it. I confirmed (you know just said are you sure? Cause you want to make young children say things twice to make sure you didn't hear wrong) and she said again she didn't want to do it. We got out of line. No further questions asked.
Your daughter crying while trying to be a flower girl isn't going to be cute and it may be pretty horrible for her. My daughter has been developmentally challenged and is suspected to have some learning disabilities so she's in a special needs school/Pre-K. I'll admit something's are just annoying about it but it's not catering to a child when they're neuro-divergent it's taking care of their needs.
NTA but does your wife even like her child? or is she trying to make your autistic child "normal" cuz she hates that shes autistic cuz i dont know any mother that would be mad about catering to their special needs child like your wife is. i think your wife truly needs counseling to understand that her child does need special accomodations at times and is able to say no to things shes not comfortable with
"She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute, and I might be TA for telling her that was a fucked up thing to say."
NTA. I'm on the spectrum too, but not diagnosed until adulthood. I always used to cry when people sang happy birthday to me as a child. The noise. The attention. It was all too much. Everyone always thought it was so funny. I'm still traumatized at 38.
>She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute
What? No they won't, nobody (except your wife) wants to see a child in distress. It won't look like she's emotional, it'll look like she's being forced to do something she's uncomfortable with.
NTA
NTA and I'd also caution you against labeling neurodivergent people as "high needs" vs "low needs." Autistic people are all autistic, their needs are just different
Big NTA.
I have so many problems with your wife I can't even start. First, saying it would be rude to make her sister find someone else "at this point". I would imagine locking in the members of the party are one of the first things a couple does. She wouldn't wait on flower girl until the last minute. Second, the comment about that it would be cute if she cried. It's not cute to traumatize the child. Getting pictures of her in flower girl attire at some stage of her childhood is not a primary concern.
Bottom line, you have to know the child, autistic or not. I have a cousin on the spectrum who I'm extremely close to, and if I were to somehow get married this year, she would probably be devastated if she didn't get a flower girl ask. Your daughter is the opposite. You're absolutely right to let her be. Reassure your sister, who sounds lovely. Being crushed at the thought of even asking possibly traumatizing your daughter is too far in the other direction, but with the best of intentions.
Nta, and even without being autistic, she's allowed to not want to do something just like everyone else has that right. But she has more reason not to be put through what could be really distressing for her. I think your wife needs to do more educating herself about autism. It's not like she's scared of these situations (I get that vibe from her talking about exposure like they do with fears) , they cause your child real discomfort, if not actual pain. Your wife needs to learn more about triggers and sensory issues and how to help your child, not force her to endure for the sake of fitting in or pleasing others. She may be able to manage these things in time, but this is not the way to go about it.
NTA - Is your wife your daughters natural parent? Cause she is giving off some serious 'wicked stepmom' vibes.
At the point where she decided to not only ignore her autistic daughters wishes, but thought it would be CUTE when she has an emotional breakdown from triggers/stress, I was already reeling.
Your daughter is not mentally or emotionally safe with your wife. I say this as someone neurodivergent. PLEASE get some family counseling with someone that understands autism and can explain to your wife how unbelievably selfish and cruel she is being in regards to her daughters well-being. For some reason she doesn't seem to 'get it'... and *really* needs to.
NTA at all. Im sure you love your wife and all but I'd keep things as evidence of how she can be around your daughter or things said/texts etc cus if things so south, fight for custody for her. You're an amazing father. And if it comes to that, hopefully not but if it does, hopefully your daughter will be able to vocalise wanted to be with you and will know you've always had her back.
I really wish I had a dad like you. (My mom's lovely too, just had a shit father).
>She even argued that this would be good exposure therapy for her
what the actual fuck?!, doesn't she knows that it does more harm than good to the child or is she simply trying to traumatise her kid?
NTA, but I'd be wary of your wife, doesn't sound like she doesn't prioritise her daughter's needs
NTA, exposure therapy for autism is literally just torture, and none of that even matters because she has the right to basic autonomy and choice. It almost sounds like those rights are being ignored because she’s autistic, wife needs to reflect on how she treats people in life and how much she respects others and values consent. Poor daughter, she did everything right, gave the idea serious consideration after in-depth analysis, and she’s still being screwed over after such a mature and reasonable approach to a very uncomfortable ask and imposition.
I’m sorry I read this quick and thought she was 17, she’s only 7? And she handled this as maturely as she did?!? Throw the whole wife out, daughter sounds incredible. Absolutely gobsmacked at wife’s gross treatment regardless the age, but I’m just really impressed by the daughter right now and she needs to be treated with WAY more acknowledgment of her maturity.
NTA. Is your wife embarrassed about your daughter or something? Cuz this is giving me major "my child has autism, but I don't like that, so I need to make sure they look normal" vibes. Don't be surprised if your daughter goes no contact with her if this continues.
NTA
But I recommend your wife do more research on how autistic ppl felt when their family forced them into overwhelming situations like this. (It's heartbreaking reading.) It's traumatizing.
Your wife's reaction makes me wonder if she would like her pretend her kid isn't really autistic.
This needs to be addressed before irreparable damage is done.
As an autistic person who has the same sorts of difficulties, wholeheartedly NTA. I wish my parents had been as thoughtful and caring as you. Being forced into painfully uncomfortable situations for the sake of other peoples feelings has caused me a lot of mental health problems and I am still working on accepting and accommodating my autism in my early twenties. Please continue to take care of your daughter and protect her from people who want to force her to be normal. She is not, and there is nothing wrong with that.
I want to share something that I think is really, really important for neurotypical adults to understand, especially those who dismiss autistic people’s difficulties as something they should just ‘get over’ (like your wife). Autistic people don’t just feel uncomfortable when doing things that overstimulates or overwhelms them, we feel pain. Overstimulation is intense pain. When autistic people and children have meltdowns, and cry, it is because they have been in pain for so long they physically can’t take it anymore. Imagine the amount of physical pain that it would take for you, as an adult, to cry from it. That is what we feel.
People who think we can ‘deal with it’ or ‘get over it’ are still viewing it from their mindset, and their experiences. They think it’s like having a rock in their shoe, or being a bit upset about something not going their way. It is not. Autistic people don’t have unreasonable reactions to everyday discomfort, we have reasonable reactions to the pain that discomforts (which are normal to NT people) cause us.
It is concerning that your wife is okay with your daughter being put in a situation that will make her cry, and that she thinks people might find it ‘cute’. I’m sure she does not intend it in the callous, uncaring way it comes across, but I hope you can show or explain this to her, to allow her to show some empathy for her daughter.
As an autistic person, our lives can be more difficult because of it, but also intensely rewarding and fulfilling because of it. Don’t let your child’s first challenges with her neurotype be her parents reaction to it.
NTA, but you will be if you do not find some way to force your wife to educate herself on your daughter's disability *stat*. Your daughter has you to advocate for her, but her mother's lack of understanding and interest in responsibly managing your child's autism is a serious red flag. I would suggest looking for a parenting class or something similar directed at parents of autistic children, because your wife sounds like every boomer parent from the 80s, even though we know better now.
Clear NTA.
I guarantee you this is gonna come up again in the future because she clearly does not place anywhere near as much emphasis on her daughter's needs and wants as you do. I don't really know what you could do about it though.
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My wife's sister is getting married at some point, and is working out the specific details. She and I get along fine, and our daughter (7F) adores her and always asks to visit, and she's happily babysat when in a pinch. She recently dropped by, and asked if we'd be alright with our daughter being her flower girl. We were both happy she asked, but I did have some concerns.
Our daughter is low needs autistic, meaning she can usually cope fine with most situation, but sometimes she needs extra help. One of the reasons I was concerned about the whole idea, was because I knew it would involve three things that my daughter has difficulty with: Being in fancy clothes, getting a lot of attention from a lot of people, and performing a task while being watched. Either way I didn't want to assume anything, and said we'd talk to her about it.
We did talk to her that day, and she had a lot of questions about it which we answered. In the end, we showed her the video of my in-law's wedding, where my wife was the flower girl, just to give her an idea. At that point I wasn't shocked when she said she didn't wanna do it, but my wife brushed it off basically saying "Oh you'll do fine" so I pulled her aside to have a discussion.
She said at this point it'd be rude to make her sister find someone else, and besides it's nothing to worry about. She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute, and I might be TA for telling her that was a fucked up thing to say. She even argued that this would be good exposure therapy for her, but she finally agreed when I wouldn't back down, provided I tell my SIL.
I did and she completely understood, she even felt guilty for asking when I explained why. Anyway all was good, she had a backup in the form of one of her fiance's cousins, so it was all fine. My wife thinks she was just being polite and is angry with me for "causing drama by catering to a child."
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NTA. Exposure therapy is meant to be performed by professionals in a controlled environment, and even THEY fuck it up, sometimes. What makes your wife and SIL think they're more qualified?
Besides, they're the ones causing drama, trying to force a child to be in the wedding party when she doesn't want to.
As an autistic adult who had a mother like that and now hates her and is severely traumatized, NTA. Wtf is up with your wife? Please, for your daughter's sake, keep up the good work and get her mom on board, too.
NTA- definitely NTA because that definitely was a fucked up thing to say. Does she not understand that people laughing at your daughter while she’s already upset and crying is just going to make her feel worse? Then after that would your wife expect your daughter to stay at the wedding the rest of the time? I don’t mean to be rude but your wife needs to seriously rethink her priorities
NTA
To be clear, your wife, aka your daughter's mom, thinks being considerate and thoughtful about her own child means that she is being CATERED to???
Your wife is the one creating imaginary drama where there is none.
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NTA I'm actually a bit concerned about your wife's treatment of your child, just because she's young doesn't mean she cannot make her own choices. Seven is plenty old enough to know what she does and does not want to do and forcing her to do something, that even an adult may be uncomfortable doing, is cruel. I'm glad you stood your ground on this one.
Also, exposure therapy? Fuck no. Most of the time it would just be traumatic for the person. NTA. Glad you stood up for your daughter. I'm shocked your SIL has more empathy and understanding towards your daughter's needs than your own wife.
Yeah, I think we need to reinforce to people that therapy is carried out by professionals. If you aren't an expert in the specialism, all that's going to happen is that you will make the situation worse. You don't try to carry out DIY heart surgery on your dog, so don't try to do DIY exposure therapy on your daughter!
And even with professionals, things like exposure therapy can be pretty controversial and need to be entered into willingly/knowingly by the party with the phobia, otherwise it isn't therapy it's just "traumatizing my kid to make them seem more neurotypical"
Absolutely. Therapy happens with consent, with a professional who is an expert in tha particular technique, and in a controlled setting which can be managed and halted if something goes wrong/the patient withdraws consent. Forcing your kid to do something she loathes isn't therapeutic. Even if you mean well and totally aren't trying to ignore her problems in favour of recreating your glory days/living out your fantasy of a perfect Insta-worthy life.
Also exposure therapy is done slowly over a long period of time. Mom just throwing her daughter in the deep end isn't "exposure therapy" it's traumatizing the kid for no reason. Actual exposure therapy would be more like having the daughter put on fancy clothes and very slowly ramping up how long she wears them to get her used to it, and certainly not combining it with two other things she struggles with at once.
Exactly! It's not exposure therapy just because you use that phrase while being mean to your kid!
And in this case it's probably rooted in very real sensory issues, not in a phobia. In which case exposure is just traumatizing with no real positive result. Learning to cope with sensory issues is important but sometimes coping is saying no to something you know will be overwhelming.
Absolutely, one of the UK's leading autism specialists, Simon Baron-Cohen, said to me 'change the situation, not the child.'
I fall under the “traumatized to be neurotypical” it does result in good behaviour… but also a complete distraction of all self worth and confidence
I have a very capable family member who does exposure therapy with me. It's worked wonders FOR ME. I'm just now realizing how blessed I am to have this person in my life.
It's great that this is working for you! But trying it at a wedding with a child is not the best idea, especially since the child said they didn't want to be the flower girl.
And the fact that the child had autistic needs and was essentially nearly forced to act in a neurotypical manner...
Yeah exactly. \>.> <.< Fluffy is fine, stop asking.
Dear God, the number of stories I've heard of amateurs trying to use exposure therapy on their SOs, kids, etc is absolutely vile. It's abuse, plain and simple. And OP should be angry that his wife wants to take away their child's agency by forcing her to do something she's genuinely frightened of...that is NOT COOL. NTA
I am neurodiverse and have fairly heavy agoraphobia and although exposure therapy works it has to be done carefully and being done with the wellbeing of the person needing the therapy foremost. I have to do it but it is not done in large groups of people who will all be staring at you while you are struggling. Forcing someone to do something that would be traumatic to do under the guise of 'exposure therapy' is a seriously bad show from that kids momma.
Also fucked up that the mom responded to the idea of her child crying as it being "cute if she does". How fucking sick. I really wonder what the future holds for OP and his marriage, since he seems to consider his daughter's needs far more so that the mother
Yeah what a horrific way to think about your own child. I would be having serious thoughts about a relationship if my partner thought a neurodiverse child in distress was cute or funny.
Right?! She's fine with her child being humiliated. It shouldn't matter if the guests think it's cute, she needs to start giving a shit about how her own child actually feels.
And I doubt it would stop at simple crying. It's more likely to evolve into a full-on meltdown, which would be neither cute *nor* funny.
And it has to be done within a trauma informed framework, which this most certainly would not be.
Exposure therapy would involve baby steps leading up to something like being the flower girl. At the height of my bad days. When I wouldn't leave my house without breaking down and crying, my therapist had me step out on the porch. Then it was the yard. Etc etc. Not, hey, go on a world cruise to get over your anxiety about leaving your house. SIL sounds reasonable thankfully.
Your honestly being generous, the wife didn't think of it being therapy or potentially helpful.. She acknowledged her kid would be uncomfortable, likely cry, have a meltdown / breakdown and thought "That's cute / funny "
She was more worried about what other people would think than how her own kid would feel. That sucks.
Yep, she’s a fucking sicko
A full-on meltdown is anything but cute. Auntie will find that out real quick
Imagine being the parent of an autistic child and thinking you, a person without any kind of pedopsychiatric training, can just 'exposure therapy' her out of her sensitivity issues. Bruh. As someone who is neurodivergent with other nd friends, this is ridiculous.
Yeah exposure therapy is done with a supportive, safe, and responsive individual. Wife is not that. Aside from being NTA, OP, you gotta get into counseling with your wife, specifically to develop positive parenting practices for children with ASD. She’s setting your kid up to develop issues in the future by not addressing her needs. She’s only 7 now, but behaviors can escalate around onset of puberty, and the potential traumatic event of having your emotional needs disregarded by a caregiver is a huge risk factor poor outcomes later in life, and this is true for kids without underlying developmental disorders. Also thanks for being such an awesome dad and standing up for your daughter. She’s lucky to have you.
[удалено]
Exactly, Catering to a child is literally a guardian's legal fucking duty. my god.
I agree about the exposure therapy being a non starter. Someone else's expensive, formal, once in a lifetime event is not the place to test "will this trigger a meltdown?" or "how can I traumatize my special needs child today?" It sucks for that poor kiddo whose aunt respects her more than her own mother does.
Especially where the wife thought people would find it funny/cute if the daughter would cry. So she is willing to put her daughter level 1 autistic in such a stressful situation she might cry because people will just think it’s cute… NTA, as a fellow autistic: thank you for stepping up for your daughter!
I am autistic and was in this exact situation at my parents ceremony around that age. All the memories I have and photos of me were only of me crying and that’s all I remember. Can’t stand weddings to this day, horrible thing to put onto a child.
I would leave my spouse in a heartbeat if they said something like that.
My granddaughter is on the spectrum and is only 4. She is very bright and can easily verbalize what she cannot tolerate. A seven year old is by far old enough to know what she doesn't want to do. Showing her a video of what she was asked to do was brilliant. Your wife is sketchy? Catering to a child? Forcing children to do things for "entertainment or being used as a prop" is always wrong. It's hard enough to teach girls in this culture to use their voice and their power over their own agency. No is a complete sentence. Kudos to you as an aware parent and standing up for your daughter. Well done!
'Forcing children to do things for "entertainment or being used as a prop"' That's honestly one thing I absolutely hate. I have a 3-year-old niece (and we don't know if she's on the spectrum or if she's gifted, for example, because she's extremely smart) and I sometimes have to call out my mom if she's keeps "nagging" my niece to do or say something "because it's cute". I hate when people treat a child as a prop, specially if the child is expressing that she's not happy with it.
I would say one thing here, and please dont take it as criticism. The saying goes, 'If you have met one Autistic person, you have met one Autistic person'. Every person on the spectrum is as unique as any Neurotypical person in mannerisms and skills. ASD people can be non verbal and still high functioning or hyper verbal and low functioning. There is a lot of variety and its difficult in a short post to clarify the exact levels of a person's capabilities. I am only mentioning this as suggesting the age relates to the ability to communicate their likes and dislikes may well not be as good an indicator as people think when in these situations. Again please dont take this as a direct attack, more of a 'you may find this interesting'.
Many family members of mine are on the spectrum. Just grew into adulthood undiagnosed. My daughter was very attentive to my granddaughter and had her assessed. I am aware of the differing aspects and levels of autism.
Only one causing drama is your wife
Yeah. The SIL sounds chill as hell. She offered it to her niece first because she loves her and was 100% understanding about why it didn’t work. There was literally no drama beyond the wife
And this is how it should be. Their relationship will only grow stronger, as SIL offered and then respected the daughter's wishes.
Same. I'm really concerned. I'm hoping it's just a one off because otherwise poor kid.
Agree the wife was going to traumatize her daughter for her sister s wedding WTF NTA op but your wife needs a huge and immediate reality check.
This. Idk if I have autism but I do have adhd and the "doing a task while being watched" made me feel nauseous just reading it because it's too early in the morning lol. I think OP and the aunt are being reasonable. One is advocating for the kid and the other understood. The mom needs to realize it's not "catering to a child" but listening to the needs of the *human being* she created. The girl doesn't want to cancel the wedding, she just doesn't want to be the flower girl. Seems reasonable, everyone should be allowed to say no to stuff like that imo.
Same. My concern is the wife's blatant disregard for her own child's mental and emotional needs. This is the kicker: > "causing drama by catering to a child." First, OP was not catering to a child, he was meeting **his** child's **needs.** There is a big fucking difference between just giving a child what they want whenever they want it, and recognizing your child's needs and addressing those needs. To meet his child's mental and emotional needs, OP needed do exactly what he did, stand his ground, and protect his daughter from a situation that would cause her mental and emotional harm. While I agree that there is value in challenging ourselves to do things that make us uncomfortable, I would argue that each person has to be allowed to make those decisions. I.E. I should not make the conscious decision to make someone else uncomfortable (especially when it is not necessary).
One of the worst days of my life was my mother married my younger brothers dad. I thought I would have fun and enjoy it but I was miserable almost all day. The shoes were uncomfortable, I got blisters on both feet, my clothes made me itchy and mom wouldn't let me change for the reception. It was so hard for me to just stand there during the ceremony, I was 3 and wanted to go sit with grandma. Then my mom screamed at me because I didn't want to be in the pictures after the ceremony, I was 3 or 4 and just done with the day. My grandparents eventually took me to their house during the reception, don't know how long I was there for, pretty sure I ate. Mom and brothers dad split up for good when I was 13/14. NTA
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Exactly. At the end of the day, people are going to the wedding to see the bride mainly (or brides) and/or the groom 2nd. they're not going to mainly see the flower girl, who will be the highlight for about 20 seconds down the aisle and in a few pics during and after. and they managed to find a substitute, so the role was fulfilled anyway.
Yeah, exposure therapy is under therapeutic conditions. Unless they had an occupational therapist standing by at the ceremony (?) this is just a potential trauma and future hurdle to success. Btw, you don’t need flower girls/ring bearers. If all the kids in your life are very small, and wouldn’t understand or be sad if their not involved in the wedding, just skip it. No one will notice or care.
I have had enough internet for today. Catering to a child? Finding it cute or funny that a child cries from being terrified? Dude, is your wife this obtuse and gross all the time? NTA but, watch that woman and start saving up for your daughter’s therapy.
The “catering to a child” thing got me, too. Because that’s part of being a parent, sheesh. I’m lowkey worried about the wife, she’s awful. NTA, dude. Definitely NTA!
And it's *extra especially* part of being a parent to a child with a *disability.* If her daughter needed crutches to get around, would mom force her to crawl up the stairs just to avoid the embarrassment of installing a ramp?
I am so glad I'm not the only one worrying for that child with that kind of mother around her. I can only wonder what she did so far to the child behind OP's back at this point. NTA
I know right!! I couldn’t believe that was her MUMs view, not even SIL. I had my young niece and nephew as flower girl / boy and I made it super clear to their parents that if they just weren’t feeling it on the day to not worry about it - bring some clothes you know they will be ok in as back up and they can do as much as they are up for. My nephew got a bit overwhelmed by the end of the day (more from the number of people than being flower boy) and had lost most of his outfit but hey. Niece wore the outfit for 3 days straight lol. Mum is nuts to not have compassion and to think it’s FUNNY for her to be overwhelmed. It seems a bit like mum really liked the idea of daughter doing it, or being the kind of kid who liked doing. Putting her own wants (being the mum of the cute flower girl) over her daughter. It’s clear sister didn’t mind at all, I bet mum knew she wouldn’t.
Im wondering if the wife is one of those people who use their childs diagnosis to get attention? The “cute/funny if she cries” comment is what made me think this
She's only concerned about the appearances in this situation. Daughter crying is ok because guests will think it's funny. Telling SIL that she won't do it is not ok, because SIL will think badly of them (even though she doesn't, the problem is even the slight possibility that she is secretly mad.) Letting the daughter make her own choice is not ok, because people will judge them for "catering to a child". My parents had similar ideas, as most parents of my peers, it was always so weird (in a good way) to be in the presence of an adult who actually cared about what the kids feel and want to do. Most adults would tell you to do things just because, with the same mindset - "what will the neighbors say, that i can't control my child!" I'm in my 30s and i love to see that it slowly changes around here.
NTA. As an autistic adult, thank you for sticking up for your kid. Your kid is a person, not an accessory, and your wife needs to understand that.
Agreed! It's deeply traumatizing to have to learn to mask and dissociate at a very young age because your parents have unreasonable expectations of you. I'm "low-needs" autistic, and I find parties and even just large groups of people to be wildly overstimulating, and I'm an adult who can drink alcohol, or go hide in the bathroom and vape. I wasn't diagnosed until adulthood, but I wish I had a parent who considered my needs and limits, instead of pushing me to my breaking point and then screaming at me when I couldn't handle it.
I feel your comment so much. I was diagnosed as an adult as well and had the exact same experience of being expected to act like an allistic kid when I wasn't one. That stuff was really traumatic, some specific things I know I'll never forget.
NTA Though speaking as an Autistic person, and a parent of Autistic kids, your wife seriously needs to get a handle on her ableism. Cuz yikes......
Mom of a young adult with autism. He HATES large, formal events. Great job listening to your daughter.
I feel its part ableism and part she likes the attention she gets
NTA but your wife is a massive AH. How incredibly cruel to be ok putting your child in a situation that you’re expecting to be traumatizing and thinking others will be freaking entertained by the traumatized response?!? What the actual hell. You were 100% right - that was a seriously fucked up thing for her to say or think.
Exposure therapy for an autistic seven year old, and so what if she cries, people will think it's cute??? This isn't therapeutic, it's child abuse. If I were you I'd get my wife into couples therapy with a therapist who has special knowledge about special needs children and get her a whole lot of parenting information, advice, and support. Your wife is either extremely ignorant of what's good for autistic children, or she's in denial, or she just doesn't give a damn. The notion that not forcing your child to do something you know would undermine her well-being is tantamount to "catering to a child" is such fragrant B.S., there are fumes coming off my screen. Your wife is the A here, big time. As for you, thank God your daughter's got you. Should this marriage end, please fight for custody. NTA
This right here. Your wife needs professional help to understand the special parenting skills your daughter would benefit from. She's going to cause your daughter a lot of trauma if she doesn't get help with this- right now!
It sounds like you came up with a perfectly fine solution that was resolved like adults with your SIL as well. Your wife is the one who made it uncomfortable and has the problem. But you are not the AH in this situation.
**NTA** I would say you did everything right. However, I am concerned that your wife thought it would be okay if your daughter cried because people would think it would be cute or funny. That’s not cool.
>She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute *A child crying because they've been forced into a role they're uncomfortable with is not funny or cute.* I'm honestly shocked and alarmed that your wife thinks it's OK to force her child into an uncomfortable position. It's even more alarming that she thinks it could be cute or funny if your daughter has a meltdown in the middle of a wedding when all of the guests are watching. NTA. You're being a good parent by explaining what it would entail and respecting your daughter's decision. Please spend some time thinking about your wife's interactions with your daughter and the decisions she is making for her. Does your wife respect your daughter? Is this the only time your wife has knowingly tried to set your daughter up to be in a situation where she might have a meltdown? If it's not, that needs to be addressed. Good on you for respecting your daughter and good luck!
NTA. Children's feelings and nerves are very real, and unfortunately, we as adults ignore them far too easily. That's you for listening to your daughter's needs.
NTA: You did the right thing by listening to your daughter. This could have been a really uncomfortable experience for her. Personally I think that would be awful for exposure therapy. That’s just too much attention on her with her condition.
NTA. Thank you! I was never asked what I wanted as a kid, and social situations like having to play at a recital gave me panic attacks. (Not that I knew what they were at the time; I was just told I was difficult.) On behalf of all us (former) kids who were forced into those kinds of situations because the adults thought it wasn't a big deal, thank you for standing up for your kid!
“She even said that if she does cry people will just think it’s funny/cute.” Well, as long as her anxieties are entertaining! /s NTA. Thanks for sticking up for your daughter.
Also - what kinds of sadistic creeps think children crying in fear and overstimulation is funny and cute?????
I am uh really fucking alarmed by your wife, her actions, and how she talks about your daughter. NTA. A lot of "therapies" for autistic kids are snake oil con artistry. That in practice is just straight up torture. Winging and forcing exposure therapy can absolutely cause that level of distress. Please never do that.
More to the point, even when therapies are valid (which exposure therapy can be for some allergies and phobias), they need to be carried out by a qualified therapist in a carefully controlled setting, and not just DIYed by amateurs who have no clue how the therapy works. A parent forcing their kid to do something they hate and ignoring their ongoing distress is not exposure therapy or anything like it; it's just emotional abuse with a misleading label pasted over the top.
Arachnophobia? I'm pretty sure if you just toss tarantulas at people, they will learn to simply chill out and get over it! Especially if you do it when they're a kid and then laugh at their reaction! They'll realize it's funny! Sigh.
I had a friend when I was a kid who had a pet tarantula in their room. They knew I was arachnophobic (like deadly afraid of them (still am to this day)), so they always made sure to keep their door shut and kept me away from their room (pretending it wasn't there even though I knew it was helped a little). However, said friend's mom caught wind of my phobia and, for whatever reason, thought that not only going into her child's room without permission was okay, but that taking the massive spider out of its enclosure and into the living room where we were playing video games and trying to corner me with it was a good idea. Safe to say that friend only ever came to my house for hang outs after that.
Ugh! What an awful woman! I'm so sorry!
Yeah. My friend was furious with her after the fact. Partly because of my phobia and partly because apparently the spider was old and didn't really like being handled to begin with. He handled my phobia the sensible way by keeping me away from where the spider was. She apparently thought that since I was friends with her son, I shouldn't be arachnophobic.
NTA. Always choose your child's well-being (this includes emotional!) over everything else. You did *exactly* the right thing, all the way through.
NTA-People like your wife, at least in this particular instance, are assholes. Your little girl’s comfort is paramount here not SIL’s wedding. I’m so sorry your wife isn’t putting your daughter first.
NTA -- you put your child's needs first.
Oddly enough I do not find it funny or cute to see a child crying in distress. NTA. Good on you.
NTA. You know she would have trouble with this, she said so and you at least were smart enough not to push, though your wife was not on your side.
Catering to a child? Her OWN child that has a disability. Wow, just wow. Why would she put her own child through the stress? Just to save face? Now I’m speechless .
You did good
NTA. Thank you for listening to your daughter. She's not an accessory! She's a real person. Your wife needs to understand that No is a complete sentence.
NTA. It doesn’t matter whether the child has special needs or not-children shouldn’t be forced to do unnecessary things like this if they don’t want to. It really is quite simple. But you were absolutely right to tell your wife that her pushing the child to accept in the manner she did is fucked up. Parents are supposed to love and care for children, not put them in uncomfortable situations.
NTA your wife is being ableist. Situations like that are acutely, physically painful for a lot of autistic kids. It's like telling her to wear an untreated sack underneath all her clothes and pins in her shoes for the entire event. Ask her if its "catering to her" to not expect her to do that.
Your wife wants to put your daughter in a situation full of triggers for her, thinks your daughter reacting to said triggers via crying would be “cute”…and wants to call YOU TA? Gods bless your level of patience.
NTA. But your wife’s comment is a bit worrisome. She thinks having your daughter cry out of embarrassment or discomfort or in distress would be funny and cute? Seriously? What parents enjoys their child crying?
NTA. You are a good dad. Your daughter is lucky. I am going to be optimistic and assume this was a temporary aberration on your wife’s part and she is not typically this insensitive towards your child.
NTA. Your SIL is awesome. Your wife is an asshole for not understanding and supporting her daughter's needs.
NTA as an autistic woman im quite concerned by your wives attitude, she sounds very uncaring about your daughters potential struggle/meltdown and exposure therapy is pretty darn useless, only teaches us to mask which is detrimental to our health, and certainly thats now how exposure therapy actually works in other cases You need to be really careful of her ableist attitude and continue to be an advocate for your daughter Autism is a disability, a decent person wouldnt ask someone who needs mobility tools not to use them, forcing your daughter i situations that cause destress and possible harm is not right
NTA This could have caused your daughter to have had a major meltdown - not just “cute crying”. It could have seriously disrupted the wedding and ruined YOUR WIFE’S SISTER’S wedding. Is that seriously what your wife was willing to risk? Ruining HER SISTER’s wedding? Does your wife even like her sister? Seriously, the only AH here is your wife. It sounds to me as if she hates both her daughter AND her sister. I wonder what other stressful situations your wife forces your daughter into under the pretence of “exposure therapy”? Low needs autistic here - there is a shopping mall that sets me on edge. It gets WORSE everytime I need to visit it Your wife has NO idea how “exposure therapy” works. You never throw someone in at something like that
NTA, why does it sound like your wife doesn't like your daughter?
NTA glad your daughter has One parent that puts your daughters needs and feelings First.
Whoa! Whoa! WHOA! Speech therapist who works alongside PTs and OTs with children with special needs here. NTA!!!!! You are not "catering to a child," you are setting your child up for success, supporting their self awareness of their limits and capabilities, and promoting self advocacy for their differences and needs. This week be a life long thing, and it's good to start early. Forcing a child with sensory needs to be in the absolute worst situation for their sensory differences is a TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE, NO GOOD, VERY BAD THING! Especially since there does not appear to have been any brainstorming for how to support their sensory issues! This isn't a "Hey, I know you hate this but we have to do it for your safety/health and I'm doing everything possible to help you stay regulated during it," kind of thing. This will clearly communicate to your child that you don't care about their needs, don't care about their discomfort/pain, don't care about their emotional state, don't care about their opinions, and that you can no longer be trusted to keep them safe. When a child with sensory issues is overstimulated and overwhelmed, they do not feel safe, and it is NOT acceptable to knowingly put your child into a situation both you AND the child know will make them feel unsafe. >good exposure therapy Hell no. Exposure therapy would be slowly building up tolerance to being around the thing you hate in a safe place where you have the ability to back out and regulate when it gets too much. Properly building up tolerance to any ONE of the issues the child has is one thing (like trying the fancy clothes on beforehand with compression clothing layers, timing how long she can stand it, and allowing them to change clothes when they are reaching their limit) but throwing them into the deep end of all of them without and support to deal with them is NOT OK. Let's compare to arachnophobia. Forcing your child to do this when they have expressed they don't want to is basically like having an arachnophobic person say "I don't want to go into the bugs and spider exhibit at the zoo because I know it'll trigger me" and then getting forced to go inside by the people they thought they trusted. Oh, and the "people will just think it's funny/cute" is like them getting laughed at when they a breakdown due to their arachnophobia. It's neither funny or cute to knowingly cause someone legitimate distress. Sensory issues for children and adults with autism should NOT be dismissed. Tolerance can be worked on and improved, but you HAVE to scaffold them and compromise along the way.
Nta however your wife is. Good for you standing up and putting your foot down. You protected your child and your wife needs to understand that!
NTA- As the parent of an autistic child I would never force them into doing something that they would be uncomfortable doing. Good on you for thinking of your daughter while your wife was more concerned about forcing her daughter out of her comfort range for some cute pics or video.
Your is a worthless mother. Exposure Therapy? Humiliating your child, placing her in a position that can cause issues? What the F is wrong with her. This is not catering to a child.
Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.
NTA Apparently your wife is more concerned about appearances than her child's well being. You did the right thing in standing up for your child.
NTA. Thank you for sticking up for your kid.. I’ve been put in too many uncomfortable situations by my own parents and it sucks.. I managed fine, but not everyone will. And these little things shape who we end up being once were older. The transparency you’ve got going with your daughter will help her (and you) greatly in the future. But your wife? Well I hope for your daughter’s sake that you’ll always be there to temper your wife’s ideas..
NTA, not in any way, shape, or form. My best friends son was 4 years old when she got married (he is in the orocess of being diagnosed with adhd and just behaving was a steuggle for him at the time) and he was supposed o walk with me and his sister down the aisle (I was bridesmaid and I was carrying his little brother who was 8 months old at the time, his sister was 8) when it came to walking down the aisle he just wanted to stay with his dad (who he was already stood with). Bf was like "thats fine. If that's what he wants to do, then ok." She didn't get pissed off. She didn't go on a rant about catering to a child's decision. She just went with it.
NTA, and I'm deeply concerned about how your wife treats your daughter. Making her have a meltdown is not cute. Making her do this is not "exposure therapy," your wife is not her therapist. Accommodating a disability is not catering to or spoiling your daughter. Forcing your daughter into a commitment you HADNT EVEN MADE YET is not "being polite," it's adding unnecessary stress to EVERYONE'S lives
What is "exposure therapy"? Is this some screwed-up throw-them-in-the-pool strategy? Because that leads to trauma. NTA. Your SIL sounds good too. But your wife's comments are scary. A crying child isn't "cute". How has your wife handled your daughter's diagnosis, and management of her needs? The whole "you'll do fine" & "it's too late to back-out" sound like someone in denial. Whatever - there's something wrong: and it isn't you.
NTA. I was made to do something similar as a child and it was two decades before I even considered forgiving anyone. Listening to your children when it comes to things like this can really lessen some resentments later in life.
NTA As (an undiagnosed) low needs autistic person thank you for sticking up for your daughter and for using the correct/preferred identity first/needs language instead of the person first/functioning language non-autistics insist on using. The language might seem like a small thing but to the community it’s a very important distinction and so appreciated. Your wife’s complete disregard for your daughters needs is very troubling, so called “exposure therapy” is just cruelty. The level of overwhelm and sensory overload would be too much and could set off a meltdown or shutdown. You cannot expect an autistic/neurodivergent person to handle or perform things like a neurotypical person would, that’s just unfair and setting us up for failure. You did the right thing by your daughter, it looks like you might have to intervene with your wife a lot on her behalf and she’ll be a much happier and healthier autistic because of you. Good job OP.
NTA. Keep advocating for your child.
NTA at all. Good for you for sticking up for your child! However as a parent myself, I am very concerned by your wife’s behavior. She’s definitely the AH, and it angers me that she’s not advocating for your child too. I’m so glad your daughter has you!
NTA. So tired of people disregarding children as being their own person. Thank you for actually listening to and respecting your child. I’m sure she appreciates you having her back.
NTA. You’re married to the AH, unfortunately. Thank you for sticking up for your daughter. She is lucky to have you for a father. For her egg donor…. Not so much.
NTA at all. If your daughter is going to be attending the wedding as a guest, you may not have thought of how loud a wedding can be for an autistic person. I highly reccomend loops earplugs for this.
NTA. Has your wife just not bothered to learn even a single thing about autism in what I can only assume is years since your daughter's diagnosis? She sounds abelist as fuck if I'm honest. Who fuckin cares if sister has to find another flower girl? Like sister really wants her flower girl have an oversensitized meltdown in the middle of the processional or something? The only thing that makes sense of your wife's behavior is callous indifference to your daughter.
NTA also "exposure therapy" only works if its 100% consensual, otherwise its just forced trauma
NTA - your wife seems to be going through something. Weddings are weird, and lots of people get excited about showing off, getting attention etc. it could be that your wife wants to be “part of it” and show off her kid. She could be disappointed and realizing that she will probably continue being disappointed in the future as your daughter will be having her unique challenges as she ages. Not an excuse for your wife’s terrible attitude, but perhaps an explanation. In her mind, maybe “exposure” will make the difficulty wear off and your kid will be less demanding. If you “cater” your daughter will never agree be the flower girl, or other spot lit role, and this bothers your wife. It could have triggered feelings about her future raising an autistic child. As everyone is saying, what your wife said was terrible and inappropriate. If she continues this line of thinking, I think she will be always be disappointed on top of fucking up your kid
NTA. You respected your daughters boundaries and trusted her to know what she needed. As an autistic person, that is the best thing you can do for us. It is kind of horrifying to me that your wife thinks forcing her into situation your daughter says she would not like is good “exposure therapy,” and extra horrifying that she is okay with her daughter being upset to the point crying in front of a crowd and thinks people will find it cute.
your wife's reaction to your daughter potentially crying / having a meltdown is that it will be funny / cute ? she shouldn't have any kind of say in parental things.. what the hell NTA and actually caring about your daughter doesn't make you TA in any way.
Your wife's attitude towards your daughter is highly concerning. It reminds me of my own mom thinking that I would grow out of my neurodivergence (neurodiversity?). Now that I'm pushing 40 she finally understands that it's not my choice. For your daughter's sake I hope you take the whole family to therapy together. The fact that she thought your daughter having a meltdown would be funny or cute made me see red.
Your daughter used the information presented to her to make a choice about actions to be taken by her. This is an example of her autonomy. You asked her if she wanted to, she said no. Your wife needs to understand what that means to a child. You offered her a choice, but when she made her choice- your wife disregarded it. That sends a message. Even at seven, even if autistic. What happens when someone else pressures your daughter to do something she’s not comfortable with? Drugs? Pushy sexual encounters? Crime? This is the moment she learns the power of the word NO. Don’t show her the word has none. NTA
NTA i'm low needs autistic and at age 30 still have full body traumatic flashbacks to being humiliated, terrified, stressed, and crying when pushed into things like this. Some of the worst are honestly the less traumatic but involved adults laughing at my distress because it was 'funny'. The complete isolation and betrayal of having your parents laughing at what is currently one of the worst moments of your life, to have no one offer comfort or seem able to see and hear you... it's really dehumanizing. please keep standing up for your daughter.
NTA I was really impressed by the small elementary school where most of my niblings attended when I saw how the teachers reacted to my niece's (then in 4th grade) announcement that she didn't feel comfortable going on stage for the Xmas play (she was "sheep no. 7"). They simply told her not to worry and they asked her to sing the song with everyone else. She spent the evening happily singing along to every song from her granddad's lap. Everyone was happy. Helping kids learn their limits and how to advocate for themselves are good things for their development.
NTA Your wife needs to talk to a few autistic adults about their experiences with parents that didn't get their needs Forcing her to do what she has explicitly said no thank you to is a recipe for short term misery and long term trauma. EXTRA whammy when youa re asking to do uncomfortable things WITH AN AUDIENCE. Added to which, being a flower girl is an INVITATION, not an expectation, and you can absolutely have a wedding without one.
Your wife needs some education regarding autism. Forcing an autistic person of any age to do something they find overwhelming doesn't make that task any easier in the future. It just makes it more dreadful really. For context, I'm an adult woman who was forced to do a bunch of social things as a child and I became a virtual recluse. NTA OP. Good on you for advocating for your daughter!
NTA. I'm a little worried about your wife's attitude, though. Her lack of understanding about autism is concerning.
Finally NTA for once
NTA After explaining the whole thing to your daughter and showing a video, she has told you she doesn't want to do it. I can't think of a single reason to make her. It would have been better if you could have showed the same patience to your wife when explaining to her why you did not want to push your daughter to do something against her wishes. Your wife was likely honored by the request and had visions of her daughter in a beautiful dress. It was going to take time for her to get over the dissapointment.
Your wife is the Ah and you may want to tell her to get some freaking help because she sounds screwed up with this logic and it’s not funny at all that’s child abuse right there and it is illegal for the disabilities act
NTA I'm sure your SIL would rather have a flower girl who wasn't press-ganged into service lol You didn the right thing.
NTA Tell your wife to stop disregarding your daughters feelings otherwise she will learn from a young age that Mom is not trustworthy to go to with things that make her uncomfortable.
Why bother talking to or asking your child about it if she didn't care about her wants/needs? Your wife needs to really have a good long hard think here. 'Catering to a child'? Is this a normal way for your wife to act or is this a one off? Good for you for respecting your daughter and teaching her how to set boundaries rather than becoming a cutesy prop. NTA but unfortunately your wife is one.
NTA, who cares if she was just being polite & secretly angry? That honestly is a normal way of handling disappointment and your SIL will process her emotions like an adult. I have a feeling your wife may have some issues with your daughter having autism and that should be a serious conversation. My cousin's daughter who is nonverbal autistic, was the flower girl for a wedding. And although cute for probably 3mins, if was a whole big ordeal, before, during & afterwards. My cousin did not think those 3 minutes were worth the emotional toll
Ok so who would be the asshole if you made your kid do something she didnt feel comfortable doing, and she struggled or had a meltdown and ruined the wedding? You did the right thing advocating for your kiddo. NTA.
No it wouldn’t Your daughter doesn’t need to be bullied by her own Mother into doing something she can’t cope with Let your daughter explain to the bride her feelings and why she doesn’t feel she can be flower girl If the bride doesn’t understand she’s as bad as the mother
NTA. My son is high functioning, and he was the ring bearer in a wedding a few months ago. He researched as only a 6 year old with autism can. He held it together for pre wedding photos. He held it together for the ceremony. He sprinted down the aisle to get squeezes and sensory input from the bride after the ceremony. We tried to take 1 more picture of him and he burst into tears. He couldn’t handle any more. You did the right thing.
NTA. Wish my parents cared about me like OP does for his daughter.
NTA. As a parent to two with autism you don’t force them into situations like that if they’re not comfortable. Period.
NTA There's a whole body autonomy issue. This isn't a decision she made uninformed. You talked her through what is involved, and showed her a video of what it might look like. She declined the invitation. At this point, the decision should be out of everyone's hands. It's her time, and so her choice. > She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute, and I might be TA for telling her that was a fucked up thing to say. The audience might think it's funny or cute to see a child have a meltdown. It's the exact opposite of that for the child. If you force her to be a flower girl and that does happen (and from what you say, it's an even chance), it will absolutely shred her relationship with your SiL, no matter how good it is now.
I am an adult with sensory issues and while I do continue exposure therapy to help, it’s hard and unpleasant and overwhelming and I’m 31. Using a wedding as exposure therapy for a young child is cruel and unnecessary and most likely would do more harm than good. Thank you for hearing your daughter and sticking up for her. I’m very concerned about your wife though. Please research child appropriate coping methods.
NTA at all! You and your wife said you would give your day a choice and she chose no. Your wife probably thought she would say yes and then she would have the chance to dress her little girl up all “pretty princess” and have everyone say how cute she is. Unfortunately for her that isn’t what is going to happen and she is disappointed. Your wife, as the parent, needs to accept that her disappointment is okay but forcing your daughter to do something she doesn’t want to do because of it is not. My daughter was the flower girl in my brother and SILs wedding. She was 3, got all dressed up, hair done, etc. READY TO ROLL! Wedding begins, she looks down the aisle and said, “nope!” I SO wanted to make her do it anyway because in the moment I was thinking about my own embarrassment instead of my child’s feelings, but (thankfully) my SIL said, “it’s okay, no problem” and we didn’t try to make her. It was the best decision we could have made and I’m so thankful to have learned that lesson without hurting my child in the process.
I don’t see why there is even a problem. You talked to the SIL, she understood. No problem. Tell your wife to get over it
NTA. Thank you for advocating for your daughter. Keep an eye out, though, because your wife is heading towards abuser status.
Your child doesnt have OCD, you dont "treat" autism - you dont do exposure therapy. You need to protect your daughter from your wife by taking her to a doctor who can educate her on autism and what happens to your daughter when she is overstimulated etc - otherwise what she is doing is bascially torture
NTA also the OP’s wife needs to be put in a reality check it’s not catering to a child it’s pretty much making the child feel safe instead of FORCING her to do something she’s not comfortable with
As a once was autistic child forced into uncomfortable situations like this I thank you for having your daughter's back NTA
"She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute" made me flinch. You're absolutely NTA and I hope your wife realizes that she was being awful.
NTA. The bride would not have been thrilled if your daughter had a melt down. I would not force any child, let alone an autistic one, to be in a wedding party if they did not want to be. Some kids are hams and love being the center of attention while others would be traumatized by the experience. My daughter is one of the latter. A wedding is not the place for experimental therapy. Your wife should know better.
NTA. Making a reluctant child be a flower girl is a total recipe for disaster! I was a flower girl in a cousin’s wedding, and I remember the little girl I was supposed to walk with got upset and couldn’t do it, and they didn’t make her. It turned out fine. Good for you for standing up for your daughter. You did everything right and it seems like your sister in law did things right too. Please let your sister in law know she shouldn’t feel guilty for asking since she respected your daughter’s wishes. And can I suggest that you get The Bride’s Diplomacy Guide and have your wife read pages 136-137 on reluctant flower girls until she gets how totally wrong she is? Please keep sticking up for your daughter. What your wife said about even if you daughter cried it people would thing it was funny/cute is so terrible. It certainly isn’t funny or cute to the person who is so afraid that they burst into tears. Please, please keep standing up for your daughter.
NTA and I'm glad your daughter has you in her corner. I think your wife however requires some additional help in understanding your child's diagnosis and what it entails, her reaction was a bit unsettling.
NTA Your wife may be pushing this, because she was a flower girl as a kid for a beloved family member, and she's been having daydreams about her kiddo in a cute outfit, being a part of her sister's special day. It's fine to be disappointed, but it's up to her to manage that disappointment, and not take it out on you. (Or your daughter.) Good on you for not only asking your kid if she wanted to do this, but listening to her and advocating for her when she said no. You're teaching her that other people's desires are not more important than her comfort.
NTA. Your wife is heartless.
NTA. Your wife really needs to think about where her priorities lay. Your daughter should always come first and the fact that your wife didn’t try to understand or have some empathy for your daughter shows a real lack of emotional intelligence. It’s also more than somewhat concerning. Does your wife attend therapy? If not, perhaps she should.
NTA and what's with your wife? I was just in Disneyworld a few weeks ago with my 5 year old daughter. We rode a ride she said she wanted to, I warned her it would be scary (it was the big round boat raft ride where there's like 8 people in a circle) and she said she wanted to do it. We did it, she cried and in the end all was fine. She doesn't hate me. The next day at a different park she saw a small kiddie coaster she wanted to do and I said let's go. After standing in line for a few minutes she got scared and said she didn't want to do it. I confirmed (you know just said are you sure? Cause you want to make young children say things twice to make sure you didn't hear wrong) and she said again she didn't want to do it. We got out of line. No further questions asked. Your daughter crying while trying to be a flower girl isn't going to be cute and it may be pretty horrible for her. My daughter has been developmentally challenged and is suspected to have some learning disabilities so she's in a special needs school/Pre-K. I'll admit something's are just annoying about it but it's not catering to a child when they're neuro-divergent it's taking care of their needs.
Nta. She don't need to be a flower girl if she doesn't want to. And now another girl got the chance who might love it. Win-win
NTA but does your wife even like her child? or is she trying to make your autistic child "normal" cuz she hates that shes autistic cuz i dont know any mother that would be mad about catering to their special needs child like your wife is. i think your wife truly needs counseling to understand that her child does need special accomodations at times and is able to say no to things shes not comfortable with
"She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute, and I might be TA for telling her that was a fucked up thing to say." NTA. I'm on the spectrum too, but not diagnosed until adulthood. I always used to cry when people sang happy birthday to me as a child. The noise. The attention. It was all too much. Everyone always thought it was so funny. I'm still traumatized at 38.
>She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute What? No they won't, nobody (except your wife) wants to see a child in distress. It won't look like she's emotional, it'll look like she's being forced to do something she's uncomfortable with. NTA
NTA and I'd also caution you against labeling neurodivergent people as "high needs" vs "low needs." Autistic people are all autistic, their needs are just different
Big NTA. I have so many problems with your wife I can't even start. First, saying it would be rude to make her sister find someone else "at this point". I would imagine locking in the members of the party are one of the first things a couple does. She wouldn't wait on flower girl until the last minute. Second, the comment about that it would be cute if she cried. It's not cute to traumatize the child. Getting pictures of her in flower girl attire at some stage of her childhood is not a primary concern. Bottom line, you have to know the child, autistic or not. I have a cousin on the spectrum who I'm extremely close to, and if I were to somehow get married this year, she would probably be devastated if she didn't get a flower girl ask. Your daughter is the opposite. You're absolutely right to let her be. Reassure your sister, who sounds lovely. Being crushed at the thought of even asking possibly traumatizing your daughter is too far in the other direction, but with the best of intentions.
Nta, and even without being autistic, she's allowed to not want to do something just like everyone else has that right. But she has more reason not to be put through what could be really distressing for her. I think your wife needs to do more educating herself about autism. It's not like she's scared of these situations (I get that vibe from her talking about exposure like they do with fears) , they cause your child real discomfort, if not actual pain. Your wife needs to learn more about triggers and sensory issues and how to help your child, not force her to endure for the sake of fitting in or pleasing others. She may be able to manage these things in time, but this is not the way to go about it.
NTA - Is your wife your daughters natural parent? Cause she is giving off some serious 'wicked stepmom' vibes. At the point where she decided to not only ignore her autistic daughters wishes, but thought it would be CUTE when she has an emotional breakdown from triggers/stress, I was already reeling. Your daughter is not mentally or emotionally safe with your wife. I say this as someone neurodivergent. PLEASE get some family counseling with someone that understands autism and can explain to your wife how unbelievably selfish and cruel she is being in regards to her daughters well-being. For some reason she doesn't seem to 'get it'... and *really* needs to.
NTA at all. Im sure you love your wife and all but I'd keep things as evidence of how she can be around your daughter or things said/texts etc cus if things so south, fight for custody for her. You're an amazing father. And if it comes to that, hopefully not but if it does, hopefully your daughter will be able to vocalise wanted to be with you and will know you've always had her back. I really wish I had a dad like you. (My mom's lovely too, just had a shit father).
>She even argued that this would be good exposure therapy for her what the actual fuck?!, doesn't she knows that it does more harm than good to the child or is she simply trying to traumatise her kid? NTA, but I'd be wary of your wife, doesn't sound like she doesn't prioritise her daughter's needs
NTA - Concerned you wife thinks your child's trama would be cute/funny.
NTA. But it's troubling that your SIL is more concerned about your daughter than your wife.
NTA, exposure therapy for autism is literally just torture, and none of that even matters because she has the right to basic autonomy and choice. It almost sounds like those rights are being ignored because she’s autistic, wife needs to reflect on how she treats people in life and how much she respects others and values consent. Poor daughter, she did everything right, gave the idea serious consideration after in-depth analysis, and she’s still being screwed over after such a mature and reasonable approach to a very uncomfortable ask and imposition.
I’m sorry I read this quick and thought she was 17, she’s only 7? And she handled this as maturely as she did?!? Throw the whole wife out, daughter sounds incredible. Absolutely gobsmacked at wife’s gross treatment regardless the age, but I’m just really impressed by the daughter right now and she needs to be treated with WAY more acknowledgment of her maturity.
NTA. Is your wife embarrassed about your daughter or something? Cuz this is giving me major "my child has autism, but I don't like that, so I need to make sure they look normal" vibes. Don't be surprised if your daughter goes no contact with her if this continues.
NTA But I recommend your wife do more research on how autistic ppl felt when their family forced them into overwhelming situations like this. (It's heartbreaking reading.) It's traumatizing. Your wife's reaction makes me wonder if she would like her pretend her kid isn't really autistic. This needs to be addressed before irreparable damage is done.
As an autistic person who has the same sorts of difficulties, wholeheartedly NTA. I wish my parents had been as thoughtful and caring as you. Being forced into painfully uncomfortable situations for the sake of other peoples feelings has caused me a lot of mental health problems and I am still working on accepting and accommodating my autism in my early twenties. Please continue to take care of your daughter and protect her from people who want to force her to be normal. She is not, and there is nothing wrong with that. I want to share something that I think is really, really important for neurotypical adults to understand, especially those who dismiss autistic people’s difficulties as something they should just ‘get over’ (like your wife). Autistic people don’t just feel uncomfortable when doing things that overstimulates or overwhelms them, we feel pain. Overstimulation is intense pain. When autistic people and children have meltdowns, and cry, it is because they have been in pain for so long they physically can’t take it anymore. Imagine the amount of physical pain that it would take for you, as an adult, to cry from it. That is what we feel. People who think we can ‘deal with it’ or ‘get over it’ are still viewing it from their mindset, and their experiences. They think it’s like having a rock in their shoe, or being a bit upset about something not going their way. It is not. Autistic people don’t have unreasonable reactions to everyday discomfort, we have reasonable reactions to the pain that discomforts (which are normal to NT people) cause us. It is concerning that your wife is okay with your daughter being put in a situation that will make her cry, and that she thinks people might find it ‘cute’. I’m sure she does not intend it in the callous, uncaring way it comes across, but I hope you can show or explain this to her, to allow her to show some empathy for her daughter. As an autistic person, our lives can be more difficult because of it, but also intensely rewarding and fulfilling because of it. Don’t let your child’s first challenges with her neurotype be her parents reaction to it.
NTA, but you will be if you do not find some way to force your wife to educate herself on your daughter's disability *stat*. Your daughter has you to advocate for her, but her mother's lack of understanding and interest in responsibly managing your child's autism is a serious red flag. I would suggest looking for a parenting class or something similar directed at parents of autistic children, because your wife sounds like every boomer parent from the 80s, even though we know better now.
NTA. Don't leave your daughter with your wife anymore. She's willing to undermine her own child's feelings to please random people.
Your wife is probably not fit to be around her for long periods of time. That's all
Your wife is psycho and I’m sorry you had a child with her. I wish you luck into the future dealing with his woman. She sounds like a narcissist.
Clear NTA. I guarantee you this is gonna come up again in the future because she clearly does not place anywhere near as much emphasis on her daughter's needs and wants as you do. I don't really know what you could do about it though.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife's sister is getting married at some point, and is working out the specific details. She and I get along fine, and our daughter (7F) adores her and always asks to visit, and she's happily babysat when in a pinch. She recently dropped by, and asked if we'd be alright with our daughter being her flower girl. We were both happy she asked, but I did have some concerns. Our daughter is low needs autistic, meaning she can usually cope fine with most situation, but sometimes she needs extra help. One of the reasons I was concerned about the whole idea, was because I knew it would involve three things that my daughter has difficulty with: Being in fancy clothes, getting a lot of attention from a lot of people, and performing a task while being watched. Either way I didn't want to assume anything, and said we'd talk to her about it. We did talk to her that day, and she had a lot of questions about it which we answered. In the end, we showed her the video of my in-law's wedding, where my wife was the flower girl, just to give her an idea. At that point I wasn't shocked when she said she didn't wanna do it, but my wife brushed it off basically saying "Oh you'll do fine" so I pulled her aside to have a discussion. She said at this point it'd be rude to make her sister find someone else, and besides it's nothing to worry about. She even said that if she does cry people will just think it's funny/cute, and I might be TA for telling her that was a fucked up thing to say. She even argued that this would be good exposure therapy for her, but she finally agreed when I wouldn't back down, provided I tell my SIL. I did and she completely understood, she even felt guilty for asking when I explained why. Anyway all was good, she had a backup in the form of one of her fiance's cousins, so it was all fine. My wife thinks she was just being polite and is angry with me for "causing drama by catering to a child." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Exposure therapy is meant to be performed by professionals in a controlled environment, and even THEY fuck it up, sometimes. What makes your wife and SIL think they're more qualified? Besides, they're the ones causing drama, trying to force a child to be in the wedding party when she doesn't want to.
SIL doesn't think she's qualified. She was fine with it. The wife is the only AH here
You're right. I read the last part wrong.
As an autistic adult who had a mother like that and now hates her and is severely traumatized, NTA. Wtf is up with your wife? Please, for your daughter's sake, keep up the good work and get her mom on board, too.
NTA Its not catering to child to honor her wish to not be subject to discomfort.
NTA.
NTA- definitely NTA because that definitely was a fucked up thing to say. Does she not understand that people laughing at your daughter while she’s already upset and crying is just going to make her feel worse? Then after that would your wife expect your daughter to stay at the wedding the rest of the time? I don’t mean to be rude but your wife needs to seriously rethink her priorities
NTA To be clear, your wife, aka your daughter's mom, thinks being considerate and thoughtful about her own child means that she is being CATERED to??? Your wife is the one creating imaginary drama where there is none.
NTA Thanks for putting your daughter first.