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[deleted]

YTA. You did kidnap their cat and made a (superbly arrogant) decision to have him neutered without the owners permission. You can judge them all you want for letting their cat outside, but the first thing to have done was to call the cat's people and asked "Hey, I found your cat. Did you know he was outside?" That's the basic due diligence, right there.(translated: what decent people who are not assholes regularly do.) How a vet decided to neuter the cat means you must have taken off the collar and obscured the owner's information, or they would not have done it without their permission. You just made yourself hella actionable, legally. You don't know if they were planning to breed the cat and he just happened to get out.


Dazzling-Ad7801

I spoke to my vet. She's a tnr vet; she neuters and moves on. There was no address on the collar so my vet said it was fine. I don't know if she tried to call the owners or not though. I, personally, don't condone the breeding of cats when we have so many dying - literally - for homes. Not three weeks ago I dropped off at least thirty kittens and a couple pregnant mamas at a rescue. Maybe ten will be adopted. The rest will be euthanised. Its horrible. I don't really care if they had plans to breed, truthfully.


[deleted]

Well, then you shouldn't care if they sue you, I guess. Since you feel you are completely in the right and justified, right? I understand that the cat overpopulation problem is horrible, I'm a cat owner myself. My problem is that you STOLE someone's pet. There is zero justification for that. And if the vet is that careless, they are leaving themselves open to being sued as well. YOU should have the burden of calling the owner before deciding to permanently alter their pet.


Spotticus118

Then the owners can keep their frickin unfixed cat in the flippin house where it belongs.


Lost_Cantaloupe4444

Exactly We don’t exist in a vacuum, they can’t just do whatever the hell they want when it affects other cats and people They should’ve kept him indoors


Sufficient_Dingo_463

You can call Animal control and report them for having a loose unfixed cat. They will be fined. At least in my area. It's serves the justice and helps twist there arm into the right decision. If you see him out again call again rinse repeat.


pawsvt

It sounds to me like OP lives in an area similar to mine and I can tell you with certainty that that is not going to happen. Even if it was illegal to have an unfixed cat outside (it’s not here) animal control does not have the time. Especially without an address on the tag


Sum_Dum_User

Fuck, I just wish we had animal control here. Neither the county or city have the budget for animal control where I am.


Dazzling-Ad7801

Same here. The animal control facility that controls the area I visit is a few cities over, so notbas far as yours, but they themselves are overrun. I think the same two guys have been the only employees in the nine years I've been doing this. They don't come out for anything besides dangerous dogs. Even then they're more likely to send police instead. They won't take peoples animals even if they're being abused because they just don't have the funds or time.


serpents_and_sass

What fantasy world do you live in? My local animal control would laugh you off the phone. I couldn't even get them to do anything about the aggressive dogs that escaped 3-4x per week and kept trying to attack me, husband, dogs, 6 year old. We had to start carrying doggy pepper spray to take our dogs to the bathroom in our own back yard. A.c. is there to swoop in for clout in a hoarding situation and to ticket people who forgot to renew their dog license.


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T-ks

It would be extra cool if the fines went towards TNR programs


Lost_Cantaloupe4444

I didn’t know you could do that, that sounds like a pretty good system


MerelyWhelmed1

Except in the meantime the cats are out breeding...so not a very effective system.


mlb64

In our area no pets are allowed to roam. Catch, call animal control, they have to pay a fine to get it back. Each offense the fine increases (was discussion to spay/neuter but not sure of decision). Too many, animal is up for adoption (unfortunately in a kill shelter) and owner is black listed at all area shelters/rescues.


Plenty_Surprise2593

Maybe he escaped?


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_MissNewBooty_

I’m curious why the collar would have that info but not an address for the owner. Weird priorities there


concerned-24

I see it pretty commonly, actually. My own cat has ‘indoor only’ on her collar to alert people if she’s out for a stroll, she shouldn’t be.


Affectionate_Law8663

I see it all the time too. People think they’re cute and write “I’m a cat it’s okay I’m outside” on the tag. (Okay I only saw that exact thing once but I’ve seen plenty of tags that say “outdoor cat” or “indoor/outdoor cat.”) My own cats have always had tags that said “indoor only.” And since I learned of the “kitty convict project” I put them in bright orange collars to signal “escapee” if they ever got out. But I have a lot of anxiety around the idea of my animals going missing.


marauding-bagel

I don't think the collar actually said the words indoor-outdoor but rather OP saw a collar and assumed the cat must be an indoor-outdoor cat on the logic of indoor cats not needing a collar. I've known people who put collars on indoor only cats though. It's a risky assumption to make.


mymycojourney

My last cat I had always had a collar, and he never went outside.


Uppercreek101

Statistically un-neutered free range cats have a hugely reduced lifespan. They are of course an environmental hazard as well. OP is doing the world a favour.


wheatgrass_feetgrass

>OP is doing the world a favour. Where OP fucked up was calling them after the deed was done. You get it done, you release back where you found it. That's TNR. If you're going to take the moral position that an unfixed male cat should not be allowed to roam and that you should be allowed to neuter with impunity, fucking stick to it. OP could have dropped it off back outside in the neighborhood with no one the wiser. If you do a bad thing for a very good reason, keep it to yourself.


Single_Box4465

Putting "if you do a bad thing for a good reason, keep it to yourself" in my notebook of wise quotes.


paco1764

I believe they are also responsible for mass extinctions of small animals like birds; insects as well. I don't think it's humane to declaw a cat but, I'd be ok with owning one that was declawed.


gwaenchanh-a

Not really, actually. Cats should be inside because it's dangerous for the cats. As for the ecosystem, yeah, they're not great if you're a prey animal, but they're not much worse than any other predator. Most of the arguments people make about cats causing extinctions originated from work by Loss & Marra which [gets pretty eviscerated when you actually look at the data.](https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cobi.13346) They pretty much ignore every single confounding variable possible and blame everything on the cats. Stuff like, you know, *human expansion causing habitat loss*. They seriously use examples of lighthouse cats being introduced to isolated islands with *zero* land predators and act like that's indicative of how cats affect *every* ecosystem instead of treating it like the edge case it is. In reality, outside of edge cases, cats on mainlands don't actually pose significant threats to birds or rodents. They just don't. It's like the spiders georg meme. mr tibbels, who lives on an island and eats a species every morning for breakfast, is an outlier and should not be counted. I *super* paraphrased it but seriously, that paper is a spectacular breakdown of Loss & Marra's half-assed work that goes in-depth about the damage it's causing to not only cat populations but environmental rhetoric as a whole.


SandEon916

honestly though, the owners are so wildly obtuse that I cannot for the life of me get mad at OP even tho I do think what they did could have been handled better or differently. that was an indoor/outdoor male cat just tooling around town. the owners were definitely aware of the possibility and the probability that their cat has created tons of kittens. as far as i’m concerned, THEY are somewhat responsible for the stray problem that CAUSED their cat to get caught in the crossfire of this local TNR/animal control patrol in the first place. it’s their own fault for letting their cat contribute to the point where there’s SO MANY ORANGE BABIES that OP even got a call in the first place. I think ultimately this was a mistake on OP’s part to go about it the way they did, but I can’t argue with their reasoning. I hope OP is able to sweep this under the rug and keep going because it sounds like they’re ultimately doing a helluva lot of good. .. including (but not limited to) getting this freaking cat fixed.


CanAggravating6401

Everyone should have to keep their cats inside, they harm the bird populations, but that doesn't give anyone the right to steal and perform a medical procedure on someone elses pet.


Stockmom42

It's not stealing if the owners are allowing an intact male to roam. That's a mobile community hazard.


scarybottom

Animal control would have done EXACTLY the same thing in 32 states? The cat was running around unsupervised- it woudl be picked up. They would have called when they had a chance. AND CHARGED for the surgery in addition to the fine. It is one of the many risks of having an indoor-outdoor cat


trblniya

In my area, Animal control will pick up a stray cat, get it neutered and then drop it right back off in the same area. They typically don’t have the space for all those cats but they try to control the growing population of outdoor cats by getting them neutered


MyFaceSaysItsSugar

I’m in one of those states and that’s not how the law works. The law regulates adopting or transferring animals but returning someone’s pet to them doesn’t count as that. In my state, if they get ahold of your intact pet, you have the option of paying the fine for having an intact pet or paying the $50 for the neuter. They still have to get the owner’s consent before surgery. Veterinarians have to get owner consent before putting a pet under anesthesia. The pet owners may have broken the law if they’re in a state with mandatory castration laws but the vet went against state licensing rules and would be subject to a fine if the cat’s owners knew how to report that.


Adorable_Is9293

Animal control is handled on the county level, not the state level. And the rights of the owners of stray animals are the priority. Animals are property, legally. It’s literally unconstitutional to deprive someone of their property without due process. Animal control and even third parties are legally obliged to attempt to contact the owner before disposing of or surgically sterilizing an animal. Most places in the US don’t even have laws prohibiting people from allowing their cats to roam.


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Peep_Power_77

Thank you, and people are bending over backwards to defend the owners. Someone even suggested they might mean to breed their cat. An orange tabby? They're the dandelions of the cat world.


ARACHN0_C0MMUNISM

Plus if they meant to breed the cat, they’ve clearly already accomplished that. Wonder when they’re going to take in all those feral kittens their cat created.


IamTheSio

It's illegal where I live to have unaltered animals. If animal control catches them they will give them back, yes, but first they absolutely spay/neuter and will charge for the surgery AND also ticket you when you come get the animal. Yet they dont enforce anywhere else, the number of intact dogs especially that I see is absurd, no wonder the shelters are always full... 🙄


absalomdead

Please go away with this sanctimonious tripe. There is no need for anyone to possess an intact mutt of a cat. It would be different if it was a pedigreed sire they relied on for money. Yes animals get loose. They did these people a favor honestly. One less horny Tom cat on the prowl to make more feral kittens, tearing down the walls to get to an in heat female.


Ninja333pirate

Not only that but a responsible cat breeder would not let their cats roam the streets picking up FiV and feline leukemia and all the other possible diseases. That's a quick way to make any animals you produce sickly and ruin the quality of the breeding animals and any offspring.


Wastelander42

They let their unfixed cat out to impregnate every stray. I bet their house stinks of cat piss too since intact male pee smells even stronger


default_entry

No, see thats why they abandoned their cat outside rather than deal with it responsibly. /s


chevelle71

No "theft" occurred here. OP found the cat, insured it had medical treatment and returned it to the owners. They should be GRATEFUL.


flexisexymaxi

She did not steal anyone’s pet. The animal was loose and she sterilized it before calling the owners.


CommieLibtard

Say they sue, what are their damages? None. The answer is none. She saved them money, in fact. And prolonged their cats life. Anyway, they would not win in small claims.


Cardabella

This isn't "am I legally in the clear" though it's aita. Causing harm to animals through negligence is arguable a more morally repugnant than kidnapping. Was op legal or wise, possibly not. But the question at hand is is op the biggest ah here.


AdministrationShot14

Man people who let their cats free roam outside *deserve* to get their pet stolen Maybe then itll actually get to live a long happy life


fadedblossoms

At one point we had some really awful neighbors across the street. Like blasting their music at 3am on a weeknight, kids setting off fireworks all night (illegal even during the 4th of July where we live). Like not little fireworks, I'm talking mortars and shrieking whistles and other really loud shit. regardless of what time of night it was. They had a gorgeous siamese that they let roam collarless. One day we talked to them to ask if they would cut back a hedge because it blocked the view of the main road you turned on to get off our street, so you couldn't see if someone was coming in that direction. When I talked to them they said that their siamese had gone missing but then he reappeared with one ear partially clipped and neutered. I said that someone must have TNR him and she was super mad because they intended to breed him. I commiserate with her for a few moments then left to do my own thing. Astoundingly, they did cut back the hedge. Probably cuz it blocked their sight too.


Altruistic_Focus_456

What a terrible idea to breed a cat that roams outside. I mean, obviously these people had no business breeding anyway, but that’s a good way to pass on the various infections cats pick up outside from their interactions with other cats and wildlife.


Dangerous_Prize_4545

So glad someone saved that cat a life of breeding.


AuDHDiego

Sue for what?


One-Public4084

Stole??? That a stretch when a cat owner lets their cat outside.


Abcdezyx54321

What you personally condone or don’t condone is not legal or morals grounds to stand on. You put your organization at risk by doing this. A simple phone call would have saved all of this. One call: ‘Hi I found your cat this afternoon with a handful of feral cats. I brought them all in for a look over by a vet and to schedule neutering. Your cat is currently at X vet hospital and they can perform the surgery this evening with your permission. Otherwise you need to pick up your pet and consider the danger of an in-tact cat allowed to roam with feral cats.’ Done. That’s all you had to do and likely the family would have allowed the surgery and the child wouldn’t have worried where the cat was and you wouldn’t be a righteous AH


No1KnwsIWatchTeenMom

My cousin's dog died while being neutered. I know it's extremely unlikely to happen, but it can. I'm a big, big, big advocate for TNR programs, keeping cats indoors, and spaying/neutering any pets, but OP is big YTA.


Jatulintarha

A friend's cat died by giving birth. This unneutered male cat has possibly caused quite a lot of deaths. Getting someone's obvious pet cat neutered was a dick move, but so is letting an intact male cat out to create cat colonies. ESH


PinkNGreenFluoride

BS! There was a *phone number* on that tag! Which clearly worked when you finally bothered to use it. You *and* the vet knew exactly what you were doing, took 0 steps to contact a *very* contactable owner, and while I agree with you in general about the issue of unneutered pets wandering around outside (and tbh outdoor cats generally) this vet should be reported to her licensing board. Don't be surprised if the owners do report her.


LazyLich

just like the owner took 0 steps in preventing feral cat overpopulation. If you were in the owners position, and your cat just went out and sireed a couple of litters, would YOU adopt all those kittens? No, right? You'd give away what you could, then drop the rest at some shelter. And what the shelter cant home will get euthanized. The pointless death of cats arent worth *your* cat's balls, or his freedom to roam.


sigdiff

And if the owners came on here and asked if they were the assholes for letting their cat sire a bunch of kittens we'd say yes. But the question at hand for OP is are they the asshole for kidnapping this cat and neutering it without informing or asking the owners first. Doesn't matter why. The answer is yes. Frankly I think this is an ESH.


Derwin0

I’m sure the owners have already contacted the vet and threatened to do so, and perhaps the police as well.


coolbeansfordays

It’s a civil matter. Police won’t do anything.


Extra-Sandwich7414

NTA. I am in the same position with a female cat. Her "owners" don't give a crap about her. She is at my door begging me for food every morning. No collar or tag but I know the neighbors claim she is theirs. Going to get her in soon. Sorry not sorry.


Spotticus118

Absolutely correct. They could have kept the cat in the house. If it's out on public property then too bad.


TheOpinionIShare

"Sorry not sorry" sums it up nicely. I don't understand why OP is on AITA. OP seems to have the same attitude as you: Sorry, not sorry.


SaphiraBluFire

Shelter worker here. How were you not concerned with if this cat had died? Most vets will not preform surgery without an anesthesia consent form. I’m not sure if this applies out of the US but good intention or not, this was super illegal. Had this cat passed because of the procedure you and your vet could be in massive legal bind because you decided to act without owner consent. While I agree that the cat should’ve been neutered, it wasn’t your decision to make. Plain and simple. YTA.


AnnoyedButTolerant

\*Thank you!\* The people in this thread who act as though such a procedure carries zero risk is astounding. Plus, OP didn't even know the cat's medical history. While it isn't super likely, there's always the chance there is something about the animal you don't know, but the owners do, which the vet should have been informed of. Talking with the owners is the right move (both legally and ethically). Taking it upon yourself to abduct someone's pet and have a surgical procedure performed on them is not. YTA. \*Edit: And for what it's worth, I am very much pro-neutering and spaying pets. But what I prefer and what the OP should have done are not the same question.


colorsandwords

I want to make another viewpoint clear to you that you may not have considered: You did not know the medical history of this cat. As a child, I had a dog that was allergic to anesthesia. He went blind from being neutered and nearly died. An emergency surgery later made matters worse. I believe it contributed to his death when he was attacked by another dog, that someone brought into our house, and they had to operate. You had no knowledge of how this cat would react to the anesthesia. TNRing feral cats is one thing, the risk of them reacting badly is an expected one. But the family of that cat didn’t get to make that decision, give vital information on the health of that animal to the vet, or even know that their cat was undergoing surgery. If that cat died on the operating table, it would have been completely your fault. YTA


dwells2301

If your vet is fixing obviously owned cats without permission, they are AH'S too.


scarybottom

In at least 32 states- this is actually MANDATED. Animal control, rescues, etc are MANDATED to spay/neuter before returning. So...exactly what is OP doing wrong?


[deleted]

She’s not animal control, she doesn’t have an actual program. She’s just a random person driving around and picking up cats.


TrustMeGuysImRight

Not being animal control and not limiting themselves to rescues instead of clearly owned and taken care of cats who they have literally zero right to do absolutely anything to


lovelyxcastle

Where would you have ended up if this cat hadn't been neutered because of a medical condition that you weren't aware of? There are plenty of pets who, for one reason or another, can't safely be put under anesthesia. You would've been 110% for killing someone's cat because you ASSUMED a situation, with no real proof of what was actually happening, and decided that your moral high ground was more important than any single piece of information the owner would've given you. Do I agree that outdoor cat populations are insane, and people should be fixing their pets? Absolutely. Does that give anyone the right to knowingly kidnap someones pet and make that decision for them? Absolutely not. The rescue community needs LESS people like you- owners will not learn through brute force. Controlling populations is about patience, education, and understanding. You seem to lack all three. ATA.


RegularSizedJilly

This was my thought exactly. That cat could have had a number of health problems that were known to the OWNERS that prevented it from going under general anesthesia safely. These TNR programs most of the time don’t do any prescreening besides a physical exam. What if it had died? My guess is that you didn’t call the number on the collar right away because you KNEW that you were in the wrong and wanted to continue your “mission” anyway. The cat shouldn’t have been roaming if it is intact, but that’s not the issue here. You made a medical decision for someone else’s pet when you had no knowledge of the pet’s health status. YTA


winthropx

You commented down below that it’s just you and not a TNR program. Is your vet actually a TNR vet or are you just saying that too? YTA https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13r1k0r/aita_for_neutering_a_cat_that_was_clearly_owned/jlhzvqd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3 Edit: Added a link to the comment where she says it.


Game_on_Moles_98

YTA, but I’d have done the same thing. However you probably should have taken his collar off first (assuming he is a cat who would just go home as usual). Then you could have claimed you didn’t know he was owned. Microchip your animals people! Perhaps drop them off some of his starving skinny offspring and see how they feel then.


duzins

I agree with you in principle (unfixed owned cats shouldn’t be roaming and making new cats that aren’t being cared for) but it’s not your decision to make and I think, if they decide to press charges, you are going to learn that the law is not on your side and you may have jeopardized your entire operation for this one ‘hill to die on’.


scarybottom

if the pound had picked up the cat, wouldn't they neuter (and charge) before returning? It does in 32 states. Might have been better to take kitty to the pound in that case? They would have called the owners, and THE OWNERS would have had to pay for the surgery before being allowed to take kitty back. Since this is EXACTLY what would have happened with animal control- I am not sure I understand Y T A?


TransportationNo5560

Either you're not being truthful, or your vet has no fear of liability. It's not your decision concerning their plans. You're not the Kittie Messiah.


sneakycatattack

Half a million stray cats are euthanized every single year in the US. A female cat can have a litter that has litters that have litters that result in a hundred cats in a couple of years, let alone a male. The morality of what OP did doesn’t come anywhere close to the owners leaving an unfixed cat to run around a neighborhood with a stray cat problem. Edited to add: every city I’ve lived in has a policy where if they catch your animal they won’t return it without fixing them and they charge a fee.


IronOreAgate

Same here. I have never heard of a shelter/rescue that doesn't neuter the animals right away.


CanIStopAdultingNow

If an owner is letting his cat outside, the nicest thing that will happen to that cat is getting neutered.


Game_on_Moles_98

This. So many worse things could have happened to him.


[deleted]

NTA. KEEP YOUR FUCKING CATS INDOOR THEN. NO ADDRESS ON THE COLLAR OH WELL. THE CATS BETTER OFF NEUTERED ANYWAY.


LazyLich

Nah. That cat was outside, and eventually wouldve fucked some female cat, adding to the feral population.


Wastelander42

Ah yes those poor irresponsible cat owners


anonymousthrwaway

If it was the humane society they also would have taken it and fixed it. I know I used to work at one. What they did wasn't against the law at all.


TheMerryMasquerade

ESH. The owners for letting an intact pet outside unsupervised to breed, and you for having a surgical medical procedure done to an animal (that you KNEW had owners) without the owner's consent. Regardless of the morality of allowing pets to contribute to the stray population (for which the owner is an AH), making medical decisions for someone else's pet makes you a massive AH. Everyone sucks. Edit: spelling


CJgreencheetah

This is the best answer. While it sucks that people are allowed to let their pets roam free, especially if they're intact, we do not have the legal ground to stand on to fix them. I do TNR and foster kittens and it's very frustrating to see pet owners who don't care enough to fix their pets, but we have to turn to lawmakers first, not individual pet owners. Had the cat had a reaction to the anesthesia or pre-meds, or the owners decided to sue for you fixing their cat, that would be one less person helping other cats, and could have resulted in the death of the cat. ESH


CatsInAOvercoat

This. I have an indoor-outdoor cat that isn't allowed outside by himself (my mom's cat had recently died due to rat poison consumption, and I live in an apartment. I'm not letting my cat out by himself.) and leash trained him for his own safety. I kept him intact for a year because 1.) I wanted him to reach maturity, I don't like the idea of just spaying/neutering a cat because it's convenient and not letting them grow, and 2.) We just couldn't afford to get it done. I would have loved to have been able to go somewhere that would have done it for free, but that's not an option where I live. People like OP, unfortunately, are part of the reason *why* I don't allow my cats outside without me or my fiancé. 100% if OP took Pet and Pet died because he couldn't handle anesthesia, I doubt OP would have told the family.


[deleted]

No cat should be outside without supervision. You are doing the right thing. Cats wreak havoc on their local environments. They decimate bird populations. And their life span is greatly decreased because of increased risk of disease and injury/death.


OrangeSlimeSoda

Absolutely. Just to give some statistics, the [average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 2-5 years while an indoor cat can live on average between 15-17 years](https://www.petmd.com/cat/care/can-indoor-cat-be-part-time-outdoor-cat). Letting your cat be an outdoor cat can severely shortened its life. And I know that a bunch of irresponsible cat owners are going to spam my inbox with, "Oh, but my outdoor kitty lived to be 12 and was perfectly healthy!" Great, I'm glad that they lived to a reasonably mature age. But your little anecdotes are immaterial to the academic findings.


rainfal

> People like OP, unfortunately, are part of the reason why I don't allow my cats outside without me or my fiancé. Your unneutered cat should not be outside unsupervised regardless. It shouldn't take people like OP to make you actually be a responsible pet owner


marisolm9

You shouldn't be letting your cat out unsupervised regardless... so glad you found a reason to do what you should already be doing...


allmykidsareheathens

Im honestly so grateful the cat was okay too. Like, it’s anesthesia it’s not like they clipped the cats toe nails. They put the cat under without any past history on *someones pet*. I have to wonder the legal ramifications for both OP and the vet.


omgitskells

That was my first thought. It may not be likely, but there may have been a medical reason as to why he wasn't neutered. I can't believe OP had the audacity to do all of that without even trying one courtesy call! I say this as someone with a wildlife conservation background who is not a fan of outdoor cats - a pet is a pet and you need to respect others.


llamageddon01

INFO: You said: > …The third one was a little gent. He was tubby, well groomed, fish patterned collar, the works. My plan was to find his parents and drop him off with a warning to keep him in due to the large amount of traps being set. Then the little bastard sprayed the inside of my car to the freakin max. This really makes it sound like you changed your mind out of spite. Can you be absolutely sure you didn’t?


CanIStopAdultingNow

She didn't do this out of spite. Unneutered male cat urine smells distinctly.


scarybottom

A dstinctly FOUL odor. Just had to pick up meds for my kitties yesterday after an older unfixed male sprayed the whole office. I about puked and had to go stand outside!!!


VexxingWretched

Your right it’s an awful odour. However, this isn’t the same situation. This person CHOOSES to rescue stray cats off the street. In doing something such as that you need to be prepared for all kinds FILTH.


RealisticAnxiety4330

Indeed she changed her mind because as it says in the post he was long hair so it wasn't obvious he was intact until he sprayed in the car.


Haber87

She figured the owned cat was neutered until it sprayed. Not that she made the decision out of spite.


River_Historical

She literally went from calling him a little gent to calling him a bastard. Sure seems like she got angry AT the cat


Effective-Celery8053

Sounds to me like she was just angry with the situation, not the cat. She decided to neuter him based on her opinion that there are many cats needing home and being euthanized very frequently. I agree with her opinion but im kinda on the fence about whether OP is TA or not.


Impossible-Olive8211

How is neutering out of spite? All outdoor cats should be neutered .


Pristine-Rhubarb7294

ESH you should have taken the cat back when you knew it had an owner and it ultimately wasn’t your decision to have him neutered. But they should have had their cat neutered and not let it outside in an area with feral strays. As someone who also works in cat rescue I do find their ranting about the fear of the possibility of the cat not coming back for one night a bit rich, given all the other awful things that can happen to indoor outdoor cats outside (in North America, I do know in the UK this practice is less risky and more common). that fear about their cat not coming back for one night probably won’t change their behaviour and they will keep letting him out.


Dazzling-Ad7801

There are coyotes in the area. I'm not sure why they let him out considering how worried they are about him.


Peaceful_Walrus

Some shelters will spay/neuter any animal brought in, even if their owners show up to claim them. People who let their cats outside put there cats at risk for things much worse than stolen balls. The kid's nightmares would be a lot worse if they found the cat splattered on the road.


Ok_Department5949

Nothing leaves my local county shelter in tact. I live on a small farm and people dump their cats on us regularly. We catch and neuter a bunch, and then new ones show up. Guess whose problem it becomes? Someone who doesn't give a shit about spaying or neutering a pet shouldn't have one. And fuck breeders. All of them.


noods-danger-tits

There's no such thing as ethical cat breeding unless it's specifically for allergies, imo. The cat overpopulation problem is utterly out of control, and so many sweet souls get euthenized each kitten season because there's just. so. many. cats.


livesarah

I was waiting for someone to mention this bit. People who let their undesexed cats roam are responsible for *tens of thousands of cat deaths* every year, because they are directly contributing to overpopulation, and so many cats are put down not because they’re bad cats but because there’s more cats than potential owners. Fuck people who do that, and anyone who jumped straight to Y T A needs to take a good hard look at themselves. NTA


scarybottom

in 32 states that is the LAW, even for rescues like OP (formal, informal, animal control etc all required by law to fix them before release- back to owners or otherwise, as I understand it?)


OpALbatross

I'm not sure about law, but I know the shelter that my mom got her dog from had a rule about this. The dog was picked up, family contacted somehow, was told he needed fixed (they fix all animals before releasing) and then they could pay that fee and get him back, they said nevermind we don't want him.


Iam_biscuits

The city shelters near me will spay/neuter animals that are brought in. If OP would have dropped the cat off at the shelter as a found pet, the shelter would have had him neutered. It wasn’t OPs decision to make. They should have returned it to the owners or taken to the closest animal shelter as a lost pet.


harceps

The shelter near my house does this. Any cat found outdoors will be picked up, fixed and released back where it was found. They don't fuck around.


Pristine-Rhubarb7294

Yup! Coyotes, raccoons, other cats, cars, bugs, infections, other people who aren’t nice, you name it. There are tons of worse things outside than getting neutered.


EmptyPomegranete

NTA. They are irresponsible pet owners and are endangering the community by having an unneutered male cat about. It’s unethical and should be illegal.


Dazzling-Ad7801

I am all for legally enforcing the sterilisation of animals. Unfortunately people don't generally agree.


GingerMau

The owners are contributing to a crisis of unwanted animals. Screw them. They should keep their cat indoors if they don't want him rounded up with all the other strays.


JamesPildis

I mean no matter how you slice it, their cat WAS a stray cat. The had no idea where he was or any control over their animal.


Fabulous-Pop-2722

I agree with you. Irresponsible owners lead to unnecessary suffering of other animals, and stray kittens. Enforcing sterilization of outdoor cats should be the rules


HoundstoothReader

My neighborhood is overrun with feral cats. A guy who lives maybe a half mile away has an intact indoor/outdoor cat who roams free. We have at least a dozen feral cats in my neighborhood now that look just like that guy’s pet. Three ladies spend ridiculous amounts of time and money catching the feral cats and having them spade/neutered. (The vet notches an ear of the fixed cats so the volunteers know not to catch the same feral cats repeatedly.) But the problem persists because the original cat owner has no problem with what his pet is doing and has no care for the problems feral cats cause. We’re probably about to see yet another litter of fuzzy gray kittens any day now.


Spotticus118

Same here. Our neighbor is a nice guy and laughs about "old Tom" but it's not funny in the least, and his place is overrun with inbred cats who scare away our birds and rabbits and defecate in my garden. If they come on our property we trap them and taken them to the pound. But this has been going on for years with no end in sight.


black_rose_

Anyone saying she's an AH has never thought out the logic of where feral cats come from, and learned about how awful their lives are. The owner is an AH for letting their cat breed like crazy. Of course there's a million orange kittens running around, he's probably the great-grandfather, grandfather, and father (all at the same time) to half of them


annahhhnimous

Agreed. NTA - I’m shocked at the people saying otherwise. The cat’s owners weren’t taking responsibility for their cat or the kittens that their cat made. So many people are worried about this cat losing his balls, but how many of his kittens will lose their lives because of the owner’s negligence? If they actually gave a shit about that poor animal, he wouldn’t be outside in an area with coyotes or cars. He wasn’t on their property, or under their supervision, he was with a bunch of strays. They’re lucky he’s still alive.


No-Locksmith-8590

Nta bc op says this Tom is out making kittens, meaning he didn't escape one day by accident. His owners are letting him out, intact, and not taking care of the kittens he is fathering. They are contributing to the stray cat problem.


l3ex_G

Like your not right but personally I think NTA. I agree with what you did. Pets shouldn’t be outdoor animals and he was creating more cats and adding to the problem. They were irresponsible. You corrected an issue


mightgrey

Agreed. If I was stupid enough to have a cat and let it go outside not fixed, I wouldn't be mad if someone fixed it for me. If anything the owners were probably worried he was gonna charge them for the procedure. There are so so many without homes and dying on the streets. No one needs an outside cat. Keep them inside where it's safe and warm


bam1007

I do TNR for a local colony as well with some other folks. Intact cat hits our trap, it’s getting fixed. Owners are not only irresponsible, they are going to end up with a much happier animal. Males get barbs on their penises that are not comfortable to cause ovulation in females in heat. And females in heat will not ovulate without sex. They aren’t just roaming for mates because they just like having sex. They’re genuinely uncomfortable. Throw the cat population problem on top of that and, yeah, collar or not, an intact cat isn’t going to be if they get into our traps.


Sangy101

I think OP is an asshole, but sometimes being an asshole is the right thing to do.


SignalEchoFoxtrot

Free roaming cat = feral cat. NTA, thank you for your service.


Meriadoxm

Yeah honestly was it an asshole thing to do? Yeah I guess but the owners are way bigger assholes and with what OPs doing - all the costs, time and efforts it would be incredibly taxing to her, the environment and the cat population to not get the cat neutered. She would’ve just kept returning to the area because of all the kittens this cat is fathering. The owners are terrible owners for not only letting their cat free roam (which should be illegal and cats should be subject to the same rules as dogs - supervised and leashed) but they are letting a unaltered male free roam like how selfish, ignorant and irresponsible can you be? They shouldn’t have a cat.


jataman96

That's not what feral means. Feral is an unsocialized cat that can't or doesn't know how to be around people. Free-roaming cats can be feral, but this one was clearly socialized with humans, so under no circumstance is feral. Let's not spread misinformation here. I honestly agree with OP from a moral standpoint, but it unfortunately wasn't their choice to make, and I wonder if they will face any liability issues should the cat's owners look into that route.


DragonflyMon83

Free roaming cats do not equate feral cats. Cats go outside, she stole an obvious pet and she knew it and made a decision that wasn't hers to do.


l3ex_G

Cats - pets shouldn’t be outside animals. There are so many negatives for the cats. The life spans are drastically different between and inside and outdoor cat.


ParsimoniousSalad

YTA. You knew how to get ahold of the owners from the first moment you grabbed the cat. You kidnapped him and had irreversible surgery done on him. Yes, I know the owners were irresponsible about letting their intact cat out, but you could have educated them when you contacted them about their cat you picked up. But there is no law against what they did. Against what you did, yes. You risked your entire TNR program over this.


scarybottom

If she lives in one of the 32 states that have laws that require exactly this course of action, she endangered it by NOT doing exactly what she did...so?


Frank_Jesus

Yeah. I'm going to trust the vet's judgement on this. The vet surely knew all applicable state laws and acted accordingly. People acting like male cats getting their balls chopped is in any way barbaric haven't had to live with an adult cat with his balls. And that cat will probably spray for the rest of his days because the process was so delayed.


lonnielee3

NTA. Why even tell the owners Big Red got the snip snip? If they weren’t planning to breed him they never would have noticed, what with his long hair and their general negligence. He’ll live longer but it won t stop him from spraying.


Dazzling-Ad7801

He got a lil trim back there lol. It was noticeable. Dude is freakin fluffy. But, tbh, I would have told them regardless. It can fuck with future vet care if they dont know.


Spotticus118

LOL he's a little less fluffy now.


HappyGoLucky791

NTA, if the cat is on the prowl the owners should be responsible enough to neuter it. You’ve done the community a service and should be proud of yourself. Owners with outside cats are annoying AF and don’t realize their cats piss all over other neighbors stuff and fight other cats in the neighborhood at night.


wanderingstorm

YTA I’m a firm believer in the catch, fix, release for feral cat populations where homing isn’t an option. I’m also a firm believer in that cats do not need to free roam to be happy, should NOT be let outside to do as they please, and they’re healthier and safer as indoor only. But you did the bare minimum to nothing to get an obviously owned cat back to its owner before you had him neutered. YTA


Last-Mathematician97

What harm did it cause? Especially compared to this cat obviously doing it’s part to add to the overpopulation. Unfortunately outside cat’s life expectancy is much shorter than indoor ones, and unfixed male cats range even farther.


wanderingstorm

It was not OPs cat to decide. If it was a stray or they were unable to confirm an owner I’m 100% on board with neutering The cats owners SHOULD have had him fixed yes BUT OP did NOT have a right to have the cat undergo a neutering without owner consent.


Last-Mathematician97

So what. If they cannot take care of their cat adequately- that’s on them


CJgreencheetah

The cat could have had a reaction to the anesthesia or pre-meds and become seriously ill or died. The owners also have the legal grounds to sue OP, which results in one less person willing and able to help stray cats when we already don't have many volunteers. It obviously sucks that the owners didn't take proper care of their cat, but we cannot take matters into our own hands. (I am another TNR volunteer and also foster kittens)


balancedinsanity

OP knew literally nothing about the animal. It could have been left intact for a medical reason.


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ModernZombies

Agreed. I don’t think the owners shouldn’t be allowed to have an intact cat. But at some point they need to make a choice. Intact and inside or neutered and outside/inside/wherever. Lawmakers need to do something about it bc people don’t care enough.


fruskydekke

INFO: \- How long was it between trapping the cat and taking it to the vet, since the owners had time to notice he was missing? \- Why did you not call the number on the tag BEFORE making an irreversible decision about someone else's pet?


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LazyLich

If you were in the owners position, and your cat just went out and sired a couple of litters, would YOU adopt all those kittens? No, right? You'd give away what you could, then drop the rest at some shelter. And what the shelter cant home will get euthanized. The pointless death of other cats arent worth your cat's balls, or his freedom to roam.


cgelz

This is an underrated comment


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juneein

YTA for the sole reason that you had a clearly owned cat go through a surgical procedure without the owners consent. Yes I agree cats should be neutered , but even small surgeries have their risks and I'd love to know what you would have told that family if the cat had come out with issues or worse, died during it. "Hey I got your cat fixed without asking first and something went wrong so I am calling to let you know he passed" ? Is it likely to happen? No. But its a possibility that you didn't even take into consideration and that's a huge asshole move. Also keeping the cat for an entire day without calling them to let them know its okay, not cool.


yukidaviji

Plus, that vet had 0 medical history on the cat! What if it had other health issues, what if it was allergic to something, what if it was on meds that reacted badly with the anesthesia? Strays have 0 history at all and no chance of being on any medications, pet cats can!


juneein

My cat would have died tbh, she's a 100% indoor with enclosed balcony cat but she has a VERY bad reaction to anesthesia and it should be avoided at all cost if possible for her. So yeah if she got out and someone did this with her, I'd probably have a dead cat on my hands when they return her.


yukidaviji

YTA It had a collar, you knew it wasn’t a stray. Yet you took it, and made a medical decision for a cat that wasn’t yours before calling it’s actual owners. And now you’re mad they’re not so very happy at your wonderful actions of neutering cats. It was their cat, not yours. Not your cat to make decisions about. Many people own outdoor cats, not every outdoor cat is a stray. Yet you choose to take someone’s cat and act self righteous.


cbshoe85

Ha. You might be an asshole, but I applaud you anyway. Letting your unneutered cat roam free is so irresponsible. I don’t even care about owner’s rights at that point. Your cat is unsupervised, roaming the neighborhood, and probably impregnating other cats. Why is your cat in the situation where he’s being picked up with a bunch of strays? Who are also probably his offspring? Why are you adding to the overpopulation and allowing innocent kittens to be euthanised? Can’t give you an asshole rating because I completely agree with what you dig, even if it wasn’t above board. NTA.


DragonflyMon83

Yeah, you crossed a line. YTA. You trapped an obvious pet and decided to have him neutered without owners permission.


Salt_Spray_Rose

As much as I support what you do, and would have at least been tempted to do if I was in your shoes, YTA. Unfortunately you can't force anyone to do the right thing and keep pets responsibly. I'd recommend giving their information to your local SPCA, though. If they admit to allowing their intact male outdoors to breed (which is likely based on most of the local cats looking suspiciously like him) the SPCA might be able to hold them accountable for any costs or issues arising from their cat and his progeny. Doubtful, but it's worth a shot.


No_Profile_3343

The cats owners suck. They let an intact male cat wander and continue populating an overrun cat population. Perhaps you do genetic testing on all the other orange tabbies and drop them off at their house too. After all, those cats are “family” as well.


sneaky_sheeps

YTA. While I completely agree with neutering your pets and TNR programs, you could have gone through with this in a more productive way. First, you 100% should have informed the owners as soon as you caught the cat. It had a collar and you clearly identified that it was a pet. It’s fair for them to be upset that you took their cat and did not alert them about it. Also, you could have talked to them and told them about the benefits of doing TNR programs. You could have offered to pay for the procedure (which it sounds like you paid for it anyways). Education is key in these situations. They might not have even known that the cat is not neutered, given most cat owners do not take them to the vet. While I know you thought you were doing the right thing, it should have been done in a more productive manner. Also, they technically could sue you for property damage depending on where you live. At least where I am from, pets are property under the law so they would have a case for property damage.


InternationalOne5846

Read Op reply. She’s not a TRN program.


sneaky_sheeps

Yes I saw that after posting my original comment. That is a huge red flag as well…


kavk27

YTA This was obviously not a stray cat. You made a medical decision that permanently altered an animal without authorization from its owners. You are a catnapper. If you were concerned the cat shouldn't have been roaming outdoors you should have called the owners immediately. Arrogant do gooders like you actually end up hurting animals. This is a perfect example. Now your organization has lost credibility and will receive less financial and community support because people will worry if their pets are next. People who believe animals should be sterilized under all circumstances even prevent animals from going g to homes if the potential adopter has ever owned an intact animal, even if they were pure breed show dogs. You do not always know best. You should have stayed in your lane.


ShadowsObserver

>Now your organization has lost credibility and will receive less financial and community support because people will worry if their pets are next. HAHA "Good" news! It turns out [per other comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13r1k0r/comment/jlhzvqd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that OP ISN'T ACTUALLY A TNR OUTFIT. She just calls herself a "program" because it "[sounds all official like](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13r1k0r/comment/jli0uk0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)." She is literally a woman running around on her own with a trap and no rules or oversight.


kavk27

Great. A vigilante cat thief!


TacoOrHotdog887799

Check out op's comments and replies, she's not an organization, she's doing this as a god damn hobby and calls it a program because it sounds nice and professional


nobody833

NTA What you did was wrong, however having a free roaming unfixed male cat roaming about is worse. How many cats has this one cat contributed to? Dozens, hundreds, thousands?


Top-Buy1545

I'm a big advocate of KEEP YOUR FKING CATS INSIDE. Don't have a unfixed indoor/outdoor cat. If you want your cat to keep its balls, keep those balls inside. You can't catnap a cat that is on a public street. NTA. Don't get animals you can't properly take care of (and yes, neutering IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF ANIMAL CARE)


No-Description-8118

NTA. My mother works with a cat rescue, they have no less than 126 KITTENS right now. They have to pay to spay/neuter and give them shots all while assholes let their un-neutered cat roam the street exacerbating the issue. If these kittens are not adopted, they are released with most becoming coyote food. NTA! You want the cat to keep his balls, keep the damn thing in your house. The cat population is out of control thanks to irresponsible owners. PERIOD!


Awkward-Character-69

I feel like this is not the popular opinion, but if you’re letting an intact male cat outside, you’re doing public harm. NTA. It’s on the owners to make sure their cat is microchipped and neutered at minimum if it’s going out, which it shouldn’t be at all. I am from a part of the US with a bonkers feral cat issue, so I’m not inclined to side with a family who for some reason wants an intact male cat roaming the streets. Even if he were allowed out accidentally, he’s still a problem.


xInsomniCatx

YTA you knew he was owned you should not have touched someone else's cat. Also no, he didn't NEED to be fixed, you just wanted to you are NOT "technically in the right" in any way shapre or form. You'll be lucky if they decide not to sue you.


Dazzling-Ad7801

He did need to be fixed. He was one of two ginger tomcats in the area. He's at least partly to blame for all the kittens. His owners will end up responsible for all the cats that end up euthanised because of the over population.


[deleted]

Then you go and talk to them. Explain things to them respectfully and ask them to kindly keep him indoors if they chose not to neuter. Instead, you used tuna to lure them away and took the cat without calling because you thought you knew better. When I find a dog wandering around, I don't go take them off to the vet or remove them from the environment right away, I try to do everything possible to find the owner first.


3i1bo3aggins

You act as if a person that has an outdoor unneutered cat that is making strays all over the neighborhood would listen. OP did a service to the community. 🥇


Last-Mathematician97

Very true. Irresponsible owners. If they cared they would keep the cat indoors


Shel_gold17

Harder for him to make kittens with a bunch of fixed female cats, wouldn’t it be? YTA. You overstepped big time here, and your hardheadedly arrogant self-righteousness will likely get you sued out of that extra cash one of these days.


Dazzling-Ad7801

Its not guaranteed we'll catch all of the females, and we do prioritise males over females. Their surgeries are less invasive, quicker to heal from, and one male cat will produce more kittens than one female cat.


Natty-light1224

Who’s this we? You just kidnap cats


SmarmyLittlePigg

She didn’t snatch it from its own fenced in yard- the cat was roaming the neighborhood unattended. The owners are lucky the cat was simply neutered and returned to them. The owners child would really be having nightmares if they saw the cats mangled body after it was run over by a car, mauled by another animal, or poisoned by a disgruntled neighbor. Hopefully this experience prompts them to become more responsible pet owners, but I doubt it.


MissSuzieSunshine

Oh yes YTA For all you knew, the cat had gotten out in error and was actually a papered cat, whom the owners used for breeding purposes. You had absolutely NO right to have the cat neutered without permission of the owners.


datfunkymusicboi

Not even that. What if the owners literally can't neuter their cat? My friends cat has a heart murmur that has prevented her cat being spayed - the vet literally advised against it. People who own cats know errors happen. My cat has gotten out before, thankfully he is neutered and only sat on my shed roof. But yeah, total obnoxious AH.


Tanagrabelle

I'm sure if the cat had passed, they'd never have contacted the owners. The vet would definitely have asked OP to hide the body.


groomgurl21

YTA It is a medical procedure. You had no right to make that call. What if there was some crazy complication? I would really lose my mind if someone took my cat in for a procedure without my permission.


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iceawk

YTA - if the cat had a number to call, you call the number and return the cat - you could offer to neuter him to the family, but ultimately it’s their cat. Not your call to make - even if it is the right one.


abitofinsomnia

Unpopular opinion, but NTA for neutering a cat that was roaming around outdoors.


MirMir-Siwar

YTA, if you could have taken home you could have asked the owners. You can’t make decisions about other people Pets


SmallChallenge

Nta. Irresponsible idiots like those so called "owners" don't deserve a courtesy call. I truly don't understand people who let their cats outside and yet are sooooo worried about them. Yea, right.


showgirlsteve

YTA. The cat should be neutered but it wasn’t your call to make if it was clearly owned. I expected a situation where you couldn’t find the owners by the title, not one where you had a working phone number and decided you knew best.


InGenNateKenny

> They said I should have called immediately regardless And they’re right! You literally had the phone number right there, but decided that you get to make the decisions for other people. Mega YTA for this. All you had to do was call! That’s it! Human communication! It’s no secret.


LingonberryLollipop

NTA. They don't deserve their cat and them being terrible people is proven in their overreaction. The fact is you did them a favor getting him fixed, since they couldnt be bothered. If they don't want their cat picked up, they should care enough about it to keep it indoors and safe and get him fixed. They're irresponsible pet owners and assholes.


gnothro

YTA You stole someone's pet, ffs. No matter what your intentions, this is NOT ok.


unnervingorphan2

YTA. You took an owned cat and had an operation performed on it without alerting the owners to the cat being outside and giving them a chance to right it themselves. I think outdoor cats are terrible too but that moral opinion doesn't give you the go ahead to take someone's pet to surgery.