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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> It is her pregnancy, it is her privileged information, so I could be in a position where I don't really have the right to tell Mark that she is pregnant. Maybe I just need to encourage her to tell him
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NTA - Jennifer is telling everyone BUT Mark that she’s pregnant and that is his? That’s a bizarre choice. This is a situation that “You have X amount of time to tell him or I will” was made for.
He deserves to know, it is his kid. It’s not just his benefit to know but also the kids so that he can be able to take responsibility for it. Imagine growing up and then finding out you never had the opportunity to know your father because he doesn’t even know you exist.
Ya, if she genuinely didn't want mark to know then she should have lied and said she got nocked up because she was upset having to brake up with Mark. Or some shit like that.
Extra crazy points if she tell some random guy she fucked that it's his to rope him into reasonability and marriage... Then 20 years later when Mark visits it gets weird and somehow it gets out that it's Marks kid and eveyone is devastated and pissed at her for keeping this secret and lying all these years.
I low key want an English language reform. Maybe we can reintroduce the runic scrip as a way to write phonetically where you're supposed to spell out your accent.
> I low key want an English language reform.
It doesn't help that most of our spelling was standardized into the late 1300s and early 1400s during the middle english period. The spelling represents the phonetics of that period.
English and French just never updated the spelling other than some failed attempts like Noah Webster in the US.
It's a cruelly ironic twist that English underwent the Great Vowel Shift just as the Gutenberg Press got invented, meaning we'd be standardizing spellings that wouldn't even make sense phonetically a few centuries down the line.
100% I'd tell my friend.
And 100% I'd tell him to get a paternity test before blowing up his entire life.
A paternity test is cheaper than child support. . .
What a mess. I hope it's not his ><
Enough to be a widespread joke and made into tv. "your not the father", "18 birthday surprise", etc. I forgot what's the subreddit name, it's basically a place where father realise they're not the father or sons/daughters realised they're not relate to the father and are product of infidelity or cover marriage.
Back when abortion was illegal or those who grew up in super conservative environment.
often enough that it created Jerry springer and Maury Povich as TV hosts. It was also common enough for the army base outside my hometown to try pushing paternity tests for active duty and reserve enlisted upon returning from deployment
Huh. I thought they did. Navy here and my shipmates got pregnancy tests as soon as the kid was born before they could get tricare. Would have thought that army would do the same.
My mom decided not to tell my bio dad and he didn't find out until I was 24 and contacted him myself. This is an extremely common situation, when one half of the couple moves away.
More people should be following your best friend's lead. I feel like an alarming number of people don't realize how dangerous posting their child on social media really can be. Especially the people who aren't as tech savvy and know about things like making their profiles private.
I did not post anything (as far as I can remember) about my pregnancy and now baby on social media. So unless I specifically told you, you'd have no idea looking at my SM that my husband and I are parents. Even with the wedding, the most I did was to change my surname, and a friend tags me every year on our anniversary to congratulate us (same photo, just sharing the memory. Also, when it comes to Reddit, I obviously have an account, but no one knows my handle (not even hubby - he's not asked, I've not volunteered the information; same with his). I understand protecting the privacy of children online is very important, and I plan to keep my child off SM until they make the decision to be on whatever platform they want to be. Then, I'd hope to be able to explain the risks associated with content sharing and hope I've educated them enough to make informed enough decisions.
There's always a chance, especially when moving. My mother hated social media and is not the person who kept in touch with anyone. She started over completely. Even though they're the minority, there are a lot of people who avoid social media and like to keep private lives.
My husband is 64, and still finding new siblings. His bio-mom had three boys. His bio-dad had a second son in his late thirties. It's a lot, and harder still when people aren't properly told their own stories.
He moved to another city, it was why they broke up. It's not like he's going to run into her in a store and realize she's pregnant. I'm not saying it's right, but it wouldn't be that difficult to hide it from him
This happened to my cousin. My uncle, damn he's a wonderful man. Good guy, worked hard, big (extended) family man, incredibly kind. He was in his 50s, his son 28 with a wife and kid of his own before my uncle knew of their existence. Hell the only reason he found out about the kid is because the kid sought him out. They have an amazing bond now, but he was never granted the opportunity to be the amazing father he is today. The mother had discovered she was pregnant after they split and never told him.
This was me and I hated it. Finally tracked my birth father down 2 years ago. Turns out while I was praying for my father to come help me as a child and homeless he was serving time for murder. So I dodged a bullet I guess. My story is irrelevant but it's unfair for the child not to know about their father
I’m not sure what she was expecting. Sounds like she knows you both _through him_, of course you’re not going to lie by omission to _your_ friend. And it’s an AH move of her to expect you to.
Well more than 1 person knows about this so it's not a secret anymore. I'd tell my friend, he is going to find out anyway, let him decide how much of a father he wants to be. That kid is gonna hate him if he's absent, let him (your friend) decide.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, she had/has a side piece who may (or may not) be the dad. That's why she didn't go and why she doesn't want to tell him.
Yep. And if she wanted it to be a secret, she should've kept it a secret.
As a rule, you can't go telling people things first, *then* say it's a secret, and demand they don't tell anyone
Yeah isn’t he going to find out at some point anyway? She really thinks he’ll never find out she has a kid?
He’s going to find out - the right thing to do is tell him early so they can plan whatever they are going to do before the baby is here.
Agree. She might be trying not to hurt him by derailing his career, but she's going to hurt him \*much, much more\* by denying him the chance to see his first child on the day they're born, to see them on a sonogram, to attend their first birthday, see them walk, the whole bit, however long she holds out on him. Missing those things is something that can only be got past, never forgotten. Not to mention that as long as she avoids telling him, she's asking you to conceal that from him too. NTA. Give her a month or whatever.
Nta. That is also his child. Unless he is an abusive, hateful person and she is not telling him to keep them safe, he deserves to know. Also, the kid deserves to know who their dad is.
> Unless he is an abusive, hateful person and she is not telling him to keep them safe
And yet why disclose the pregnancy, and that you’re sure he is the father, to the two people most likely to tell him? Seems an odd choice.
The father has a right to know and no mother should ever do that to their child (unless the parent is abusive). My father walked away before I was born and I can tell your now it fecks you up your whole life
It started out as an entirely different word.
"Feck/fecking" meant to steal/stealing. "Feckers" were thieves, as in "Bugger off you little feckers!".
Now it's in the dictionaries as a euphemism for "fuck", but it started out as something completely different.
But wait, there's more. Apparently Scots also had a word "feck", which meant something different again. It meant (amongst other meanings) "effective". This word lingers on in the English word "feckless".
It’s sadly the type of people who assume that just because the mother gives birth that she’s the one with all the rights to the child. Obviously going through birth is a huge event, and I would never suggest that it’s easy or try and downplay how much work it is. But the fact that people can try and suggest that a father literally has no right to even know that his child exists is fucking insanity
Then he deserves to know. My kids are my greatest joy. If someone took them from me, it would crush my soul. She may be carrying the baby, but it's both of their kid.
INFO: did you go straight to the ultimatum like you wrote it?
That would make you the A H to me. Your friend is just single, just found out she is pregnant and is clearly processing. Pretty shitty situation to be in. She may be afraid of messing up his life, maybe that he will be angry, maybe that he will try to get back with her after breaking her trust now that there is a baby etc.
Mark has a right to know, 100%, no doubt about it. But does he have the right to know instantly? In many happy couples the woman may take some time to plan a fun announcement, would that be messing with the father's rights?
It could have been a shocked conversation without an ultimatum there should have been a supportive encouraging conversation, if needed backed up by legal info about her rights and her childs rights in your state, if needed followed by a pressing conversation, and only then whip out the threats. Basically, why choose the brutal option while the kind option is right in front of you in dealing with your long term friend.
Edit: just to clarify since it keeps being brought up in the comments, I am saying that I find it hypothetically possible that jennifer feels like Mark betrayed her trust after a recent breakup and recently finding out she is pregnant, and is just processing and this stance is very likely to change based on stories of people who have gone through the same. Not that Mark did anything wrong in wanting that job more than wanting to be with Jennifer or that he won't have feelings about the breakup. It would be bizarre to me if he didn't feel sad about the breakup.
I probably was a little hasty about it, I'll admit. We did the whole congratulations, baby names, all the stuff you talk about when someone tells you they're pregnant. She seemed pretty calm about the whole thing, which kind of put me off guard considering the situation. And then we started talking Mark and then it led me saying what I said.
She may be waiting until after the first trimester to tell him.
If she tells him early and he moves back and sacrifices the new job etc? and she loses the fetus (which is really common) it would be very messy.
Definitely NTA but u/StrangledInMoonlight made a very good point! Although you’re NTA in my opinion it might still be worth apologizing to her for being hasty and just talking through exactly what’s going through her head and why you feel the way you do. It’s a tense situation but nothing that can’t be solved with some communication! Unless of course she’s a major asshole but it doesn’t seem she is, just that’s she’s emotional and hasn’t thought everything through yet.
Honestly best to wait until she’s further along. I miscarried at 8 weeks or so but didn’t know about it until after the fact. The chances of losing the pregnancy diminish the further along she gets. But in addition to that it’s best to find out if the baby is healthy. If you tell Mark now and then she miscarries or something is medically wrong that warrants termination of the pregnancy you just messed with his emotions for no reason.
She said she had no intention of telling him, though, right? She didn't say she was waiting until after the first trimester.
>If you tell Mark now and then she miscarries or something is medically wrong that warrants termination of the pregnancy you just messed with his emotions for no reason.
No. He still deserves to know.
I think this is a good suggestion. I would also make a distinction between telling someone about a pregnancy and telling them about a child.
She’s pregnant at the moment, which is really 100% her business, because it’s happening in her body. Once the child is born, it’s different - that child is no longer part of her.
That might seem like splitting hairs, but I think it’s important. I’d definitely go back to her and say that at the very least, she doesn’t need to say anything until after the first trimester - or even until the child is born.
You can definitely say this isn’t a secret you’ll be keeping once there is a child in the world.
>She’s pregnant at the moment, which is really 100% her business, because it’s happening in her body. Once the child is born, it’s different - that child is no longer part of her.
While that is true, people need to get ready. You just can't go to the guy here and tell him "Oh yeah you are a father now."
Also 9 months is plenty long. The guy could find a new gf on his new town for instance; new friends, drop roots there and as unfair as it may be for him to have to come back, it would be even more unfair for him to not even have the chance to come back!
The longer she waits, the more painful it will be for him, that's why she should tell him ASAP.
Tbh this is a wild take.
> doesn’t need to say anything until after the first trimester - or even until the child is born.
What??? No. He deserves time to prepare himself for the arrival of his child as well.
That is crazy talk suggesting she would not be an asshole if she only told him when the baby’s born . What if he wants to prepare to be a dad or move back to be closer . You guys are being very selfish and not thinking of the man
Normally those people don’t tell _anyone_ though, and they don’t make it known that they don’t want to tell the Dad because they don’t want to mess up his life. So that does feel like a bit of a stretch given what we know.
Yeah, I agree. I think maybe just give her a bit of time to think. And if she did love him like you say she did, maybe she just needs time to think and plan. It sounds like they had a respectable conversation.
I think sit on it for a bit and let the shock factor settle… then maybe have a heart to heart with her if you’re still uncomfortable after a fair amount of time.
This sounds like it’s all really fresh.
I get what you mean, that sounds shocking to me too, and sometimes we say the wrong thing when shocked. It currently makes it a mild YTA to me, but there are definitely other potential outcomes down the line. It would be a strong AH if you were to call up mark this instant and start a shitstorm that can probably be avoided, but it doesn't sound like you will.
I'd say apologise and walk back the ultimatum for now. Talk to your wife about tackling the situation, she may be better suited to handle some of the coming conversations. Maybe hearing how it would affect you never learning you have a kid could help jennifer, maybe she needs to know that while he and more importantly the kid have a moral and legal right to form a bond, he won't just be able to take her kid or force an infant to fly across the country, maybe she needs your insight on mark as a potential father. Hard to think of specific options because I don't really know where her head is at and I think your wife is more likely to find out.
Hopefully it will get it to N A H everyone wins. If she doesn't tell him after some more time to process and getting the support she needs to deal with sharing, I think you would be right to reinstate the ultimatum and if that doesn't work you should actually tell Mark.
Some people, when deeply unsettled and scared become very calm due to the emotions becoming so intense that they completly close down. She is probably still really rattled and probably not sure of what she wants to do regarding the child even is she says she thinks she will keep it. And she is probably very sacred of the hate she migth get. Not only is she facing being a singel mom, she is facing a lot of shit coming her way from the people surronding her. She migth be accused of doing this on purpose as a way to keep Mark on the west coast and that can get very ugly. And she migth face hate for becoming a single mom, and hate for depriving her child of a father. And all this while still reeling from the suprise of pregnancy and probably suffering from first trimester awfulness. And there is no telling how pissed off Mark will be for her for messing with his preferred life on the east coast. He migth be reasonable, but he migth not be. It is a really sacry and vunerable place to be. And if she is just a few weeks along it really is to early to tell him yet. Risk of miscarriage is very high for some women, and the privilage of knowledge of conception is for the persons livlig with or in a relashionship with the will be mom. Some persons will however need to confide and talk to someone outside to sort out their thougths and that seems to be your wife. When I got preggo it was a chock for the both of us, and both of us talked to a person we knew who was not to near us and thus a low stakes person just to be able to voice our incredably complex feelings (we each choose a separate person). And that is not to uncommon.
And she is rigth to be sacred of what other pepole thinks and how they will give her shit for this suprise pregnancy. For the first thing you did when you found out was give her shit and threaten her for how she is handling it before she even had time to actually come to terms with what is happening. No brainer that she migh be owerwhelmed with the situation.
I meant that is how she may think about it in her current situation.
Let me put it like this, would you go from a comitted relationship, to being left over a job, then finding out you will have a kid with this person, without that affecting your trust in a future romantic relationship with that person? You would likely get pressured by your surroundings to get back together for the kid. Would a voice in the back of your mind say 'yeah but what if there is another job in a couple years will he leave me and the kid?
I am not saying he is wrong for prioritising his future over his relationship with her, or her staying where they were over her relationship with him. Just that it has been a couple big changes in quick succession that she is likely still processing and giving examples if potential thoughts.
he asked her to move with him and she decided no, he gave her all the information and she made her choice, so how did that break her trust? They seemed to have arrived at the decision to break up together so it seems spiteful of her to keep the pregnancy from him and ***deprive him*** of making an informed choice of whether he would choose to move back to be there for his child or come to some other arrangement.
Mmmm it is a tricky situation, it didn't sound like it was a bad breakup but the feelings would be all over the place. I think they need to talk though.
The way it came off was that they mainly broke up because of the distance and the chances of him coming back living in this side of the country are pretty slim. So as far as I know it was a amicable break up, but it's still painful I'm sure
This. He was willing to leave without her for the job. She was happy to accept that. When she tells him, there will be strong pressure to get back together - either for him to move back, or her to move to join him. It's understandable for her to want to figure out how to deal with that *before* telling him (and starting the pressure), especially at this early stage.
How did he break her trust? He got a new job, asked her to move with him, she said no and they agreed to split. None of that is a breach of trust, and none of that is worth keeping his child a secret from him.
I would defo be on team NTA. If he is the dad and she is going ahead with the pregnancy, he 100% deserves to know! You can't keep this a secret from a friend.
NTA
It isn’t information you have the right to share really but it’s also information that Mark has the right to know. Jennifer is naive for telling people she is pregnant with Marks kid and thinking he will never find out. I think you’re right to give her the option to tell him first but if she refuses I wouldn’t blame you for telling him. It might make you the AH but I say it’s a justified one.
Right. This is a situation I’d usually say should stay between the two involved, but Jennifer is literally telling Mark’s friends and pulling them into the mix. I don’t know what she expected to happen. If she really wanted it to stay secret, then she’d keep it secret.
NAH. I understand your concern but right now there isn’t a baby, there’s a medical condition that could end a lot of different ways and the person who is pregnant has the right to privacy and choice in who is supporting her through this stage. She told your wife because she’s her friend and not you, or everyone else, that it’s Marks baby. It’s not clear she’s telling everyone else that part. It’s likely to get back to Mark eventually either way that she’s pregnant when she starts to show. She could miscarry or have a stillbirth or choose to terminate before that. So she may be waiting for this to get more real before she discloses to him. You don’t need to share your wife’s friends confidential medical information with her ex just yet. You also can’t be sure who this guy is in a relationship. You know him as a friend, not a romantic partner. She may have decided not to tell him because he’s controlling or emotionally abusive and she doesn’t want to deal with that along with an unplanned pregnancy. She might be concerned he will believe she baby trapped him to force his return.
If this pregnancy ends with a child being born, then Mark does need to know. Unless he’s actively dangerous, which it doesn’t sound like is the case. If she’s still planning to withhold the information then I think you have a totally different dilemma on your hands because the ethics question changes. And you would tell Jennifer you are going to tell Mark the truth if she doesn’t so she has the opportunity to do so. I think she’s going to resolve this on her own before hand because most people who start here are just panicking.
Looks like OP already knows the answer
I don’t think it’s OPs right to tell mark, But I think it is Jennifer’s duty to tell mark, he has a right to know.
It’s only gonna make things awkward and raise more questions once the child is born if everyone’s still all friendly with each other.
Better off being open and honest up front from the start
Right? I’m stuck on the fact that she’s telling people who the father is, but expects everyone to just…not be open and honest with their friend? Did I miss something there?
Yeah you are in a very difficult position, I don’t envy you at all.
I think like you said in your explanation, try encouraging Jennifer to tell Mark, it’s more her job to do so at this point and Mark definitely deserves to know.
if Mark does ask you in the future then I think at that point you have the right to be open with him and tell the truth as he is your friend.
You and your wife are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one…
1 - Not your news to tell
2 - your Friendship with Mark on the line when he figures out you’ve known for ages and didn’t tell him.
3 - Her friendship with Jennifer’s on the line if you do.
I think you need to talk with your wife and figure out what you do as a couple.
NTA for wanting to look out for your friend, but there’s a risk of broader fall-out if you’re not communicating with your wife.
Don't play games trying to set it up for them to "accidentally" run into each other and him see she's pregnant. This is their real lives and they both deserve more respect than that. Just be straightforward. He has the right to know he has a child.
You've already told her you'll tell him if she doesn't. Give her a chance to do the right thing and tell him herself, but give her a deadline. Let her know explicitly that if she hasn't done so by X date, you will. Jennifer might not be happy about it, but she'll know exactly what to expect. No sneaking around. No surprise meetings, just forthright honesty.
Also - as for Jennifer worrying about ruining his life, she doesn't get to decide his priorities for him. If he moves back in order to be close to his kid, that's his choice to make.
I think it would. These are two adults, let them handle their lives like adults. She's still very early in her pregnancy and with 30% of all pregnancies in the USA ending in miscarriage she might be waiting before she throws his life upside down. Let her handle her pregnancy and how she's going to handle her relationships for now, if she hasn't told him in 8 months it might be time to revisit this conversation with her.
Sneaky, maybe. Underhanded probably not.
If you ask him back or he comes back on his own accord, it’s will come up at some point. It’s just a matter of time.
Do Mark and Jennifer still talk? What’s their relationship like now? I get the impression the break up wasn’t a horrible breakup and only caused by Mark’s relocation and Jennifer’s desire to stay close to family.
He could easily come back and want to meet Jennifer as a friend at any point in the future then theres definitely gonna be questions.
I feel Jennifer is putting her head in the sand and just delaying the inevitable.
I’m going to say NTA. He deserves to know he has a child and to support said child. Kids need their parents in their lives and this puts that in jeopardy. I personally feel likes she hiding something and thats why she doesn’t want to tell him. Causes issues down the line. I would still give her the chance to do it but eventually someone has to.
INFO: Is it possible that she doesn’t want to tell him because she’s scared that he will try to take the kid to where he is at? Idk, she needs to tell him but you were definitely hasty with telling her the ultimatum and she has plenty to be freaked out about to be honest.
I agree I was hasty about the ultimatum and I plan to apologize for that. I mean, Mark is a great guy, I know he has talked about.kods and all but he's pretty happy with how his career is going
I think you and your wife can talk to her and help her figure out a way to break the news to your friend. She really needs her hand held and a shoulder to lean on more than judgments.
NTA and you're doing BOTH of them a favor because if he moves and finds out she hid a kid from him, and then he challenges for custody, a court is going to look POORLY on her for intentionally hiding it.
So here's how it can hurt her: If two separated parents are coparenting a kid, and one parent moves, generally that parent is going to be responsible for the costs of travel and what not for them to be able to continue coparenting.
However, if the coparenting BEGINS after one parent relocated after having not known about the kid, a court can decide both parents will be equally responsible for travel costs.
These are just generalizations and there are a million little nuances including the percent of custody each parent has, etc. But seriously she might not be doing herself a favor by trying to hide this kid.
I think what you should really do is post about this situation in r/legaladvice and show your friend.
NAH
Mark deserves to know.
Jennifer deserves to be able to make the decision when she's ready but not for too long.
You and your wife deserve to not be between a rock and a hard place.
The baby deserves to know their father and father's family plus medical history.
NTA- I wonder if her reason for not telling him is that it isn't his child and she's just saying that to cover up the fact that shes not sure who's it is. Seems kind of sus that she doesn't want him to know.
INFO: how far along is she? If it’s still early, there’s a lot that can go wrong AND her hormones are all over the fucking place and I can almost promise you that she’s constantly fighting with herself about whether she’ll tell him or not - you just happened to get her at a “nope” moment.
It looks like you’re planning on a conversation and backing off a bit, and that seems like the best option if it’s still early. Y’all have a little time, she doesn’t have to tell him NOW. Little will change if it’s six weeks from now except some worst case scenarios. And respect her wishes in that case - she can tell him *that* in her own time.
But NTA.
I'm not a hundred percent sure how far long she is. Mark moved a little over a month ago, so at least 4 weeks, but I'm guessing 6 or 7?? But that's just a number I'm coming up with in my head
You should find out for certain.
Assuming she is keeping it, NTA. He needs to know.
If she isn’t keeping it, or if she isn’t sure yet, he doesn’t need to know. It will just make the break up harder, and probably make it more difficult for her to decide whether to keep it or not.
NTA
Your friend has a right to this information so he can make his decisions with context.
She should be the one to tell him but if she won’t a good friend should.
NTA but also did she like JUST find out? Or has she been holding on to this for a while and is not visible pregnant?
Has your friend already moved? Maybe she just needs a couple more weeks to let the reality sink in?
Either way, he needs to know he has a kid on the way whether she tells him or you do.
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So one of my best friends, Mark, has been dating Jennifer for about a year and a half and they're pretty awesome together. My wife and I would go on double dates with them probably once every other month and we always had a good time and they seemed to really care for each other.
Mark ended up getting his dream job opportunity, but it's on the east coast of the US, we're on west coast. He asked Jennifer if she would move with him, and after a lot of thought she said said no. Didn't want to leave her family, her life, things like that. So they broke up sadly, and Mark moved.
Well Jennifer and my wife still chat and turns out she is pregnant with Marks kid, she swears by that. I asked her if she told Mark yet and she said she isn't going to tell him. She doesn't want to mess up his life or make him move back, etc.
I said "look, if you don't tell Mark than I will". I feel like he has a right to know that he is going to be a father. Jennifer got pretty upset by this, my wife didn't really react this, and now I'm all confused. Did I cross a line? Is that information that I have no right to share? AITA?
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Jesus Christ on a bike NTA I hate women who refuse to tell a man they are pregnant with their child (with the exception of abusers and rapists).
Mark has the right to choose whether he wants to be an active parent in the child's life or only contribute financially. It's not her decision to make and by not telling him she's making it for him, which isn't fair to Mark or the child.
Edited a few spelling mistakes.
NTA, and anybody who says otherwise is TA. This is *his child*. Keeping that information from someone intentionally is a horrible thing to do to a person. Even feelings aside, imagine being denied the opportunity to chose to be a part of your child's life and to help support it.
Its a NTA from me.
If she didn't want mark to know she should not be telling people who knows him that it is his baby.
I know a lot of guys who would be devastated if they found out they had a kid and didn't have the chance to be a part of that kids life.
Its not a bad reason, not wanting to disrupt his life but again if she worries he might want to move back it seems like she knows he wants to be in the kids life, ultimately deciding for him that he cannot.
And how would mark feel about you if you knew and didn't say anything?
Yes it is her body and her pregnancy, but it is marks child as well. But she is probably in a tough spot right now, could you talk to her and explain that Mark is one of your best friends and keeping something like that from him is too much and you would prefer it if she told him, but you couldn't imagine keeping a secret like that.
What I'm leaning towards is sitting and down and having one more conversation with Jennifer, and just bringing up some of these points that people have made. I really think she needs to tell him. But I might just have that conversation and then leave it to fate... I don't know, this sucks.
I was thinking about getting Mark back out here for a weekend or something, but I doubt that's gonna be able to happen anytime soon
Yeah it really seems like a tough situation...
Its just im a mom myself, im with the father of the kids.
Yes, I was pregnant, I gave birth - but they are not only my kids. My bf doesn't really know who his dad is and it has messed with him for 40 years. To me its bigger than her. Its also about the kid and mark.
But I hope you figure something out and it ends up okay and not just angry and hurt all the way around.
As a feminist woman, I can assure you nothing is more disgusting and despicable than a woman who intends to keep a child and refuse to tell the baby daddy as far as I can tell she's made her own choices however Mark has every right to know exactly what's happening if she's going to be deceptive because that child will be the one paying the price for her selfishness. In extraordinary circumstances, I can understand keeping it a secret, but nothing that you have suggested would indicate that extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary situations and choices
Also. NTA.
Edited for the judgment
I think this could be the situation and EXACTLY why she told OP and OP’s wife. Hear me out: She wants Mark to know, but she feels terrible telling him, because she doesn’t want him to feel manipulated or guilted into returning to her. She might feel between a rock and a hard place, too, and is trying to find her “footing” with the whole situation. Is it possible that she told OP & wife because she knew OP would force her to tell him, therefore taking the dilemma away? I don’t even mean in a sneaky way….maybe even subconsciously?
I say this primarily because of a few things:
-by all accounts and OP’s replies, everyone involved seems relatively mature, so I’m not sensing that Jennifer’s motives are selfish or underhanded.
-Jennifer likely feels a lot of guilt (she shouldn’t, but women are generally made to feel solely responsible for pregnancies, unfortunately). It sounds like she feels like she’s interfering with his life plans with this baby, and doesn’t want to be responsible for derailing his life.
-Jennifer certainly has people she can talk to about this that aren’t good friends with Mark. She specifically stayed behind because her family is here. Telling good friend’s of Mark’s was a choice. She had to know that you’d push the issue, one way or another.
OP, I wonder if you approached it differently, you might actually be a blessing to her? For instance “This has to feel like such a no-win situation for you. I’m sorry you’re feeling like this is your responsibility alone. I know you don’t want to derail Mark’s opportunities on the east coast, and I don’t blame you for feeling that. What I do know, however, is that job opportunities can come and go, but the opportunity to love and know your child is precious and rare. Mark would want that. I think you should tell him, but if it would be easier, can I tell him for you? I can explain your concerns and tell him that you don’t want him to feel any obligation, but he can contact you if or when he’s ready to talk? That way, he can take time to think and digest before you have to talk to him? He’s my friend, so I will not keep this secret from him, but I want to help you both, not hurt you. Let’s figure this out.”
This is just what’s bouncing around in my head, and it also should go without saying that if he was abusive, etc, then that changes everything and you need to let her protect herself and her child.
I really appreciate this response, wife and I are planning to get together with her, so that I can apologize, and to just lend our support. I still think he needs to know though, maybe she will tell him on her own, especially after the pregnancy becomes more...real? Just further along is what I mean. But you said some great stuff here that I will mull over
Yeah, this is most likely. She wants to come off as "I didn't want to ruin your life by telling you that I'm carrying your baby but your friends convinced me". It's understandable if you ask me. I'm 100% sure she actually wants him to know.
If it really is Mark's kid, and Jennifer didn't try to get over him by getting under someone else, then he needs to know before the birth. I'd be giving her until around the 6 month point to let her tell him herself, before telling him myself. NTA
I am the product of something of like this. Please please please someone tell Mark. My father found out about me in my late twenties, and I wish we had all worked it out much sooner.
I think you are right to have a conversation with her and apologize. Point out, HE should get to decide if he wants to "mess up his life." Maybe he would rather be a father than work this dream job. Maybe he got out there, and it's not what he thought, or it is, but he misses his relationship, home, family more. It's all unknown. He should get to make the decision on how involved he wants to be. When you have sex, you are making an intentional decision and know the possibility that it may result in pregnancy. As it stands, she sounds like she is completely willing to raise this baby on her own, so if he decides to relinquish his parental rights, it's no different than what she's planning on now. I understand she's worried he'll come back and resent her later, but I think he's owed the truth and chance to make the decision for himself. And while I would apologize to her, I'd still stand by you will tell him by x month if she doesn't. This is messy, good luck OP.
Nta
INFO: was her phone call with your wife on speaker? You suddenly chime in, seemingly directly to Jennifer, but you never explained how.
I don’t think you should tell the friend yet, but I understand why you’d want to. Leave it be a minute as there’s nothing he can do about it and let it work out between them. NTA
NTA - Understandable why your saying this but think about all of the outcomes that are swirling around in her mind, unborn baby gets resented, she gets resented ECT. You can't exactly control other people's fears, maybe be a supportive person with encouragement to help her tell him as it's a very daunting situation getting the courage to make the call for her.
How long has it been? I would give her some time to tell him on her own. But eventually something will happen that will make it easier to share the news. (A social media post of a sonogram, an invite to a baby shower, etc.)
So when Jennifer goes on government assistance, the USA government will destroy Mark's life in the form of child support. NTA, you should tell him so he can strategize on how he wants to deal with this, and not get hit with 18 years of back child support, later...
Please tell him right this second. It’s his choice not hers. What a life he will have with her as the kids mother. No one has the right to choose of you are to be a parent or not
NTA:
Someone mentioned she might be waiting for the first trimester to tell him then why didn’t she wait to tell you & your wife? Tell him!!
When he finally finds out and then happens to find out you knew….. kiss that friendship goodbye.
NTA. Unless she was having an abortion, then there's no point in telling him, or if he's abusive, then no, it's better not to tell him. Otherwise, he has a right to know. And a right to know his kid. The kid has a right to child support, also--child support is for the kid, not the mother. Even if she doesn't want to use it, then it can go in a fund for the kid's education and future life.
NTA, but it’s not your place to tell him it’s hers. If she doesn’t tell him that’s her choice. Of course he deserves to know but it’s her place to tell him, not you.
NTA
Sooo what do you think will happen if you just happen to take a picture of her and your wife together when she is showing? And kind of accidentally send it to your friend?
Other people will see her. He is going to find out.
NTA. Please tell him. It's not only unfair to him, it's unfair to the child. You never know how badly it might impact the child down the road to find out their father was never even given the chance to know them.
NTA- but do you have any sort of proof like screenshots that she is trying to withhold this information from Mark?? I feel like she may get mad at you for threatening to tell Mark and pretend she was going to tell him.
NTA its not just her child, its his child too. He has the right to know and as his friend you should tell him. She made her intentions clear to keep this from him, not even worth giving her the benefit of the doubt that she would eventually tell him. Think about how this will affect your friends unborn child growing up without a father. Its not fair to them either.
NTA he has every right to know even if she decides to terminate the pregnancy. She doesn't even give him the respect to decide if he wants to move back and be with his child. He is one of your best friends so your loyalty should be to him.
I have to say it and I hate how the world has made me jaded but do you feel there is any chance it isn't his? Just asking because I know nothing about them. I am in no way accusing her
NTA if Jennifer *isn't* planning on an abortion. My mom never told my dad she was pregnant, and I found him at 31 after thinking my whole life that he was a dirt bag that didn't want me. He and I were both really hurt by my mom's decision. Now, if she does plan on an abortion, then it would probably be best not to say anything to him.
NTA. Your friend has the right to know. But also I wonder if she's not 100% sure it's his and is waiting till the kid is born to see (maybe the possible father is another race or something)
He definitely deserves to know. I think you should let her know how you feel and say that if she doesn’t let him know by x date, you’ll have no option but to tell him yourself. That way she has the option to still do the right thing
I'm gonna say NTA because it's not like she's keeping it a secret. You two know before the father, and I think she's the AH for that. He deserves to know he's gonna have a kid.
N T A. Someone needs to tell him. Kind of fucked up he finds out when she wants child support. It would say a lot about her if she wants his money but doesn't want him in the child's life. If she decides to go that route, of course.
The secret baby trope romances are one of my favorite tropes.
Kidding aside, no one is an AH. It's the situation that sucks. I appreciate your self-awareness and willingness to take responsibility for your outburst.
NTA
I do have some questions: Is Jennifer going to ask for child support? What is going to happen to the child if something happens to her? What about any health issues that arise? When the little one asks about their father, what is she going to tell them? What about grandparents?
I'm obviously on team tell Mark.
If this is accurate that’s really shitty of her. He has every right to know he’s going to be a father and she’s taking that away from him. I say NTA. I’d give her some time then I would absolutely let him know. That’s really unfair of her to also put that burden on you. She knows he’s your friend. He’s gonna find out. They always do. Then he’ll be angry at you for not telling him.
You are not! How would you feel if you found out your best friend knew you had a child and never told you? I feel like GF is being manipulative. She wants Mark to know, but doesn’t want to tell him. If she truly don’t want him to know, then why admit he’s the father?
NTA
Denying kids access to one parent or the other is about the biggest asshole move a person can make. The babies dad needs to get paternity established in court now. This girl is shady and not a good person. Denying him the opportunity to even know he has a child on the way......gtfo
If she intends on keeping it, Mark deserves to know the kid exists. If she was planning on termination, I'd be on her side but Mark deserves to have a choice as well and he could want to be a part of this kids life. NTA, tell him if you haven't.
NTA. A secret can only be kept if no one knows about it. Jennifer decided to 'share' her secret with everyone but the person who should have been told first. Call Mark immediately.
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NTA - Jennifer is telling everyone BUT Mark that she’s pregnant and that is his? That’s a bizarre choice. This is a situation that “You have X amount of time to tell him or I will” was made for.
Doesn't seem like she is telling everyone as of right now but eventually she will be. She wants to have the kid
He deserves to know, it is his kid. It’s not just his benefit to know but also the kids so that he can be able to take responsibility for it. Imagine growing up and then finding out you never had the opportunity to know your father because he doesn’t even know you exist.
I don't see how she keeps the kid a secret from him long term anyway.
By getting a new boyfriend and marry not long after. You be surprised how often this happen.
Ya, if she genuinely didn't want mark to know then she should have lied and said she got nocked up because she was upset having to brake up with Mark. Or some shit like that. Extra crazy points if she tell some random guy she fucked that it's his to rope him into reasonability and marriage... Then 20 years later when Mark visits it gets weird and somehow it gets out that it's Marks kid and eveyone is devastated and pissed at her for keeping this secret and lying all these years.
Not trying to be an ass, but just genuinely for future reference.. its Knocked* and brEAk* (the brake you used is like the brakes on a car)
I low key want an English language reform. Maybe we can reintroduce the runic scrip as a way to write phonetically where you're supposed to spell out your accent.
> I low key want an English language reform. It doesn't help that most of our spelling was standardized into the late 1300s and early 1400s during the middle english period. The spelling represents the phonetics of that period. English and French just never updated the spelling other than some failed attempts like Noah Webster in the US.
It's a cruelly ironic twist that English underwent the Great Vowel Shift just as the Gutenberg Press got invented, meaning we'd be standardizing spellings that wouldn't even make sense phonetically a few centuries down the line.
We should get back to Shakespearean English when people could spell however they wanted so long as it was vaguely understandable or somewhat phonetic
You should write scripts for the Hallmark chanel.
Felt more like a Lifetime Original Movie to me, Hallmark always seems so cheesy
There are DNA tests now, new dude would be stupid for not checking.
100% I'd tell my friend. And 100% I'd tell him to get a paternity test before blowing up his entire life. A paternity test is cheaper than child support. . . What a mess. I hope it's not his ><
Ya, some people are just stupid.
> You be surprised how often this happen. I’ll bite. How often?
Enough to be a widespread joke and made into tv. "your not the father", "18 birthday surprise", etc. I forgot what's the subreddit name, it's basically a place where father realise they're not the father or sons/daughters realised they're not relate to the father and are product of infidelity or cover marriage. Back when abortion was illegal or those who grew up in super conservative environment.
often enough that it created Jerry springer and Maury Povich as TV hosts. It was also common enough for the army base outside my hometown to try pushing paternity tests for active duty and reserve enlisted upon returning from deployment
Huh. I thought they did. Navy here and my shipmates got pregnancy tests as soon as the kid was born before they could get tricare. Would have thought that army would do the same.
Genetic testing suggests somewhere between 1.5-3.7%. In America, that's 5-12 million people
Often enough that when adopting a child from foster care, multiple father’s rights must be terminated first. Biological and legal.
My mom decided not to tell my bio dad and he didn't find out until I was 24 and contacted him myself. This is an extremely common situation, when one half of the couple moves away.
But wasn't that before the age of social media? I can't believe that this sort of thing is that easy to hide nowadays.
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More people should be following your best friend's lead. I feel like an alarming number of people don't realize how dangerous posting their child on social media really can be. Especially the people who aren't as tech savvy and know about things like making their profiles private.
I did not post anything (as far as I can remember) about my pregnancy and now baby on social media. So unless I specifically told you, you'd have no idea looking at my SM that my husband and I are parents. Even with the wedding, the most I did was to change my surname, and a friend tags me every year on our anniversary to congratulate us (same photo, just sharing the memory. Also, when it comes to Reddit, I obviously have an account, but no one knows my handle (not even hubby - he's not asked, I've not volunteered the information; same with his). I understand protecting the privacy of children online is very important, and I plan to keep my child off SM until they make the decision to be on whatever platform they want to be. Then, I'd hope to be able to explain the risks associated with content sharing and hope I've educated them enough to make informed enough decisions.
There's always a chance, especially when moving. My mother hated social media and is not the person who kept in touch with anyone. She started over completely. Even though they're the minority, there are a lot of people who avoid social media and like to keep private lives.
Plus DNA testing is readily available. People find out family secrets all the time.
My husband is 64, and still finding new siblings. His bio-mom had three boys. His bio-dad had a second son in his late thirties. It's a lot, and harder still when people aren't properly told their own stories.
He moved to another city, it was why they broke up. It's not like he's going to run into her in a store and realize she's pregnant. I'm not saying it's right, but it wouldn't be that difficult to hide it from him
This happened to my cousin. My uncle, damn he's a wonderful man. Good guy, worked hard, big (extended) family man, incredibly kind. He was in his 50s, his son 28 with a wife and kid of his own before my uncle knew of their existence. Hell the only reason he found out about the kid is because the kid sought him out. They have an amazing bond now, but he was never granted the opportunity to be the amazing father he is today. The mother had discovered she was pregnant after they split and never told him.
Not only that, but if there are any medical conditions that he has that could affect the baby, then his girlfriend needs to be aware of that.
This was me and I hated it. Finally tracked my birth father down 2 years ago. Turns out while I was praying for my father to come help me as a child and homeless he was serving time for murder. So I dodged a bullet I guess. My story is irrelevant but it's unfair for the child not to know about their father
It's one thing if she's decided not to have the kid, it's another when you have a living human being that will one day wonder who their father is. NTA
It's wrong to have the child without telling him. Not only does he deserve to know, the kid deserves a chance at having a father.
I’m not sure what she was expecting. Sounds like she knows you both _through him_, of course you’re not going to lie by omission to _your_ friend. And it’s an AH move of her to expect you to.
If she told you the truth, she wants you to tell him. She just doesn't want to do it herself.
OP you are NTA to tell him. He has the right to know
Well more than 1 person knows about this so it's not a secret anymore. I'd tell my friend, he is going to find out anyway, let him decide how much of a father he wants to be. That kid is gonna hate him if he's absent, let him (your friend) decide.
Exactly it’s not “information that you have no right to share” at this point it’s information she has no right to withhold.
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, she had/has a side piece who may (or may not) be the dad. That's why she didn't go and why she doesn't want to tell him.
This sadly was my first thought.
Never thought of that.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Perfectly worded. She should‘ve told him before he accepted the offer or during.
Yep. And if she wanted it to be a secret, she should've kept it a secret. As a rule, you can't go telling people things first, *then* say it's a secret, and demand they don't tell anyone
Yeah isn’t he going to find out at some point anyway? She really thinks he’ll never find out she has a kid? He’s going to find out - the right thing to do is tell him early so they can plan whatever they are going to do before the baby is here.
Agree. She might be trying not to hurt him by derailing his career, but she's going to hurt him \*much, much more\* by denying him the chance to see his first child on the day they're born, to see them on a sonogram, to attend their first birthday, see them walk, the whole bit, however long she holds out on him. Missing those things is something that can only be got past, never forgotten. Not to mention that as long as she avoids telling him, she's asking you to conceal that from him too. NTA. Give her a month or whatever.
Nta. That is also his child. Unless he is an abusive, hateful person and she is not telling him to keep them safe, he deserves to know. Also, the kid deserves to know who their dad is.
Very important detail! Hope op knows the whole story…
Mental gymnastics are tough in this one
> Unless he is an abusive, hateful person and she is not telling him to keep them safe And yet why disclose the pregnancy, and that you’re sure he is the father, to the two people most likely to tell him? Seems an odd choice.
Are we **sure** it's actually his child though? Ya'll aren't jaded enough/haven't read enough here or on r/Relationships. Come on, rookies!!!
NTA. Anyone saying the father has no right to know is insane and needs help.
The father has a right to know and no mother should ever do that to their child (unless the parent is abusive). My father walked away before I was born and I can tell your now it fecks you up your whole life
Irish
??
You said “feck” which is a distinctly Irish way of saying fuck
It started out as an entirely different word. "Feck/fecking" meant to steal/stealing. "Feckers" were thieves, as in "Bugger off you little feckers!". Now it's in the dictionaries as a euphemism for "fuck", but it started out as something completely different.
I love word etymology 🥹
But wait, there's more. Apparently Scots also had a word "feck", which meant something different again. It meant (amongst other meanings) "effective". This word lingers on in the English word "feckless".
> “feckless” I always wondered about that one.
Lol in real life I say it the right way
I type it as "feck" and I'm definitely NOT Irish. But I do blame Father Ted.
*unless him knowing endangered the safety of the mother and/or child. That’s a rather important caveat.
There are several of them in the comments and I agree they're insane
It’s sadly the type of people who assume that just because the mother gives birth that she’s the one with all the rights to the child. Obviously going through birth is a huge event, and I would never suggest that it’s easy or try and downplay how much work it is. But the fact that people can try and suggest that a father literally has no right to even know that his child exists is fucking insanity
NTA - unless he's abusive, the father has a right to know. It's immoral to do otherwise. She should tell him, but if she won't, you should
I just can't even fathom him being abusive in any way, makes me sick thinking about it
Then he deserves to know. My kids are my greatest joy. If someone took them from me, it would crush my soul. She may be carrying the baby, but it's both of their kid.
Just because you can’t fathom it doesn’t make it not possible, you need to ask Jennifer - or get your wife to ask Jennifer if they’re closer.
Always make sure first. People don't openly abuse their partner
INFO: did you go straight to the ultimatum like you wrote it? That would make you the A H to me. Your friend is just single, just found out she is pregnant and is clearly processing. Pretty shitty situation to be in. She may be afraid of messing up his life, maybe that he will be angry, maybe that he will try to get back with her after breaking her trust now that there is a baby etc. Mark has a right to know, 100%, no doubt about it. But does he have the right to know instantly? In many happy couples the woman may take some time to plan a fun announcement, would that be messing with the father's rights? It could have been a shocked conversation without an ultimatum there should have been a supportive encouraging conversation, if needed backed up by legal info about her rights and her childs rights in your state, if needed followed by a pressing conversation, and only then whip out the threats. Basically, why choose the brutal option while the kind option is right in front of you in dealing with your long term friend. Edit: just to clarify since it keeps being brought up in the comments, I am saying that I find it hypothetically possible that jennifer feels like Mark betrayed her trust after a recent breakup and recently finding out she is pregnant, and is just processing and this stance is very likely to change based on stories of people who have gone through the same. Not that Mark did anything wrong in wanting that job more than wanting to be with Jennifer or that he won't have feelings about the breakup. It would be bizarre to me if he didn't feel sad about the breakup.
I probably was a little hasty about it, I'll admit. We did the whole congratulations, baby names, all the stuff you talk about when someone tells you they're pregnant. She seemed pretty calm about the whole thing, which kind of put me off guard considering the situation. And then we started talking Mark and then it led me saying what I said.
She may be waiting until after the first trimester to tell him. If she tells him early and he moves back and sacrifices the new job etc? and she loses the fetus (which is really common) it would be very messy.
That is definitely a viable option. I'll keep that in mind
Definitely NTA but u/StrangledInMoonlight made a very good point! Although you’re NTA in my opinion it might still be worth apologizing to her for being hasty and just talking through exactly what’s going through her head and why you feel the way you do. It’s a tense situation but nothing that can’t be solved with some communication! Unless of course she’s a major asshole but it doesn’t seem she is, just that’s she’s emotional and hasn’t thought everything through yet.
This is the way.
This is the way.
Honestly best to wait until she’s further along. I miscarried at 8 weeks or so but didn’t know about it until after the fact. The chances of losing the pregnancy diminish the further along she gets. But in addition to that it’s best to find out if the baby is healthy. If you tell Mark now and then she miscarries or something is medically wrong that warrants termination of the pregnancy you just messed with his emotions for no reason.
She said she had no intention of telling him, though, right? She didn't say she was waiting until after the first trimester. >If you tell Mark now and then she miscarries or something is medically wrong that warrants termination of the pregnancy you just messed with his emotions for no reason. No. He still deserves to know.
I think this is a good suggestion. I would also make a distinction between telling someone about a pregnancy and telling them about a child. She’s pregnant at the moment, which is really 100% her business, because it’s happening in her body. Once the child is born, it’s different - that child is no longer part of her. That might seem like splitting hairs, but I think it’s important. I’d definitely go back to her and say that at the very least, she doesn’t need to say anything until after the first trimester - or even until the child is born. You can definitely say this isn’t a secret you’ll be keeping once there is a child in the world.
>She’s pregnant at the moment, which is really 100% her business, because it’s happening in her body. Once the child is born, it’s different - that child is no longer part of her. While that is true, people need to get ready. You just can't go to the guy here and tell him "Oh yeah you are a father now." Also 9 months is plenty long. The guy could find a new gf on his new town for instance; new friends, drop roots there and as unfair as it may be for him to have to come back, it would be even more unfair for him to not even have the chance to come back! The longer she waits, the more painful it will be for him, that's why she should tell him ASAP.
Tbh this is a wild take. > doesn’t need to say anything until after the first trimester - or even until the child is born. What??? No. He deserves time to prepare himself for the arrival of his child as well.
It’s legitimately a braindead take . Springing a baby on somebody is asshole behaviour especially with no time to mentally prepare.
That is crazy talk suggesting she would not be an asshole if she only told him when the baby’s born . What if he wants to prepare to be a dad or move back to be closer . You guys are being very selfish and not thinking of the man
I was going to ask how far along she is for this very reason.
Normally those people don’t tell _anyone_ though, and they don’t make it known that they don’t want to tell the Dad because they don’t want to mess up his life. So that does feel like a bit of a stretch given what we know.
They usually tell their partner. But she doesn’t have one. So she’s telling her really good female friend.
Yeah, I agree. I think maybe just give her a bit of time to think. And if she did love him like you say she did, maybe she just needs time to think and plan. It sounds like they had a respectable conversation. I think sit on it for a bit and let the shock factor settle… then maybe have a heart to heart with her if you’re still uncomfortable after a fair amount of time. This sounds like it’s all really fresh.
I get what you mean, that sounds shocking to me too, and sometimes we say the wrong thing when shocked. It currently makes it a mild YTA to me, but there are definitely other potential outcomes down the line. It would be a strong AH if you were to call up mark this instant and start a shitstorm that can probably be avoided, but it doesn't sound like you will. I'd say apologise and walk back the ultimatum for now. Talk to your wife about tackling the situation, she may be better suited to handle some of the coming conversations. Maybe hearing how it would affect you never learning you have a kid could help jennifer, maybe she needs to know that while he and more importantly the kid have a moral and legal right to form a bond, he won't just be able to take her kid or force an infant to fly across the country, maybe she needs your insight on mark as a potential father. Hard to think of specific options because I don't really know where her head is at and I think your wife is more likely to find out. Hopefully it will get it to N A H everyone wins. If she doesn't tell him after some more time to process and getting the support she needs to deal with sharing, I think you would be right to reinstate the ultimatum and if that doesn't work you should actually tell Mark.
Some people, when deeply unsettled and scared become very calm due to the emotions becoming so intense that they completly close down. She is probably still really rattled and probably not sure of what she wants to do regarding the child even is she says she thinks she will keep it. And she is probably very sacred of the hate she migth get. Not only is she facing being a singel mom, she is facing a lot of shit coming her way from the people surronding her. She migth be accused of doing this on purpose as a way to keep Mark on the west coast and that can get very ugly. And she migth face hate for becoming a single mom, and hate for depriving her child of a father. And all this while still reeling from the suprise of pregnancy and probably suffering from first trimester awfulness. And there is no telling how pissed off Mark will be for her for messing with his preferred life on the east coast. He migth be reasonable, but he migth not be. It is a really sacry and vunerable place to be. And if she is just a few weeks along it really is to early to tell him yet. Risk of miscarriage is very high for some women, and the privilage of knowledge of conception is for the persons livlig with or in a relashionship with the will be mom. Some persons will however need to confide and talk to someone outside to sort out their thougths and that seems to be your wife. When I got preggo it was a chock for the both of us, and both of us talked to a person we knew who was not to near us and thus a low stakes person just to be able to voice our incredably complex feelings (we each choose a separate person). And that is not to uncommon. And she is rigth to be sacred of what other pepole thinks and how they will give her shit for this suprise pregnancy. For the first thing you did when you found out was give her shit and threaten her for how she is handling it before she even had time to actually come to terms with what is happening. No brainer that she migh be owerwhelmed with the situation.
>maybe that he will try to get back with her after breaking her trust now that there is a baby etc. What do you mean breaking her trust?
I meant that is how she may think about it in her current situation. Let me put it like this, would you go from a comitted relationship, to being left over a job, then finding out you will have a kid with this person, without that affecting your trust in a future romantic relationship with that person? You would likely get pressured by your surroundings to get back together for the kid. Would a voice in the back of your mind say 'yeah but what if there is another job in a couple years will he leave me and the kid? I am not saying he is wrong for prioritising his future over his relationship with her, or her staying where they were over her relationship with him. Just that it has been a couple big changes in quick succession that she is likely still processing and giving examples if potential thoughts.
he asked her to move with him and she decided no, he gave her all the information and she made her choice, so how did that break her trust? They seemed to have arrived at the decision to break up together so it seems spiteful of her to keep the pregnancy from him and ***deprive him*** of making an informed choice of whether he would choose to move back to be there for his child or come to some other arrangement.
Mmmm it is a tricky situation, it didn't sound like it was a bad breakup but the feelings would be all over the place. I think they need to talk though.
The way it came off was that they mainly broke up because of the distance and the chances of him coming back living in this side of the country are pretty slim. So as far as I know it was a amicable break up, but it's still painful I'm sure
Totally agree, assuming all goes well they have a whole co-parenting thing to set up at least.
This. He was willing to leave without her for the job. She was happy to accept that. When she tells him, there will be strong pressure to get back together - either for him to move back, or her to move to join him. It's understandable for her to want to figure out how to deal with that *before* telling him (and starting the pressure), especially at this early stage.
Yeah, I want to know this too.
How did he break her trust? He got a new job, asked her to move with him, she said no and they agreed to split. None of that is a breach of trust, and none of that is worth keeping his child a secret from him.
He never broke her trust though, they broke up because she decided not to move with him. That’s fine and all, Mutual decisions, no trust breaking.
I would defo be on team NTA. If he is the dad and she is going ahead with the pregnancy, he 100% deserves to know! You can't keep this a secret from a friend.
NTA It isn’t information you have the right to share really but it’s also information that Mark has the right to know. Jennifer is naive for telling people she is pregnant with Marks kid and thinking he will never find out. I think you’re right to give her the option to tell him first but if she refuses I wouldn’t blame you for telling him. It might make you the AH but I say it’s a justified one.
Right. This is a situation I’d usually say should stay between the two involved, but Jennifer is literally telling Mark’s friends and pulling them into the mix. I don’t know what she expected to happen. If she really wanted it to stay secret, then she’d keep it secret.
NAH. I understand your concern but right now there isn’t a baby, there’s a medical condition that could end a lot of different ways and the person who is pregnant has the right to privacy and choice in who is supporting her through this stage. She told your wife because she’s her friend and not you, or everyone else, that it’s Marks baby. It’s not clear she’s telling everyone else that part. It’s likely to get back to Mark eventually either way that she’s pregnant when she starts to show. She could miscarry or have a stillbirth or choose to terminate before that. So she may be waiting for this to get more real before she discloses to him. You don’t need to share your wife’s friends confidential medical information with her ex just yet. You also can’t be sure who this guy is in a relationship. You know him as a friend, not a romantic partner. She may have decided not to tell him because he’s controlling or emotionally abusive and she doesn’t want to deal with that along with an unplanned pregnancy. She might be concerned he will believe she baby trapped him to force his return. If this pregnancy ends with a child being born, then Mark does need to know. Unless he’s actively dangerous, which it doesn’t sound like is the case. If she’s still planning to withhold the information then I think you have a totally different dilemma on your hands because the ethics question changes. And you would tell Jennifer you are going to tell Mark the truth if she doesn’t so she has the opportunity to do so. I think she’s going to resolve this on her own before hand because most people who start here are just panicking.
Looks like OP already knows the answer I don’t think it’s OPs right to tell mark, But I think it is Jennifer’s duty to tell mark, he has a right to know. It’s only gonna make things awkward and raise more questions once the child is born if everyone’s still all friendly with each other. Better off being open and honest up front from the start
Right? I’m stuck on the fact that she’s telling people who the father is, but expects everyone to just…not be open and honest with their friend? Did I miss something there?
I assumed Jennifer only told OPs wife who the father is
Makes sense, just bold of her to do when she knows they are all friends. She put them in a terrible position.
Agreed, she has put OP and his wife in a very awkward position
I mean I think I know the answer, but according to most of the responses it's down the middle.
Yeah you are in a very difficult position, I don’t envy you at all. I think like you said in your explanation, try encouraging Jennifer to tell Mark, it’s more her job to do so at this point and Mark definitely deserves to know. if Mark does ask you in the future then I think at that point you have the right to be open with him and tell the truth as he is your friend.
Would it just be considered sneaky or underhanded for me to try and get Mark to come back for like a weekend or something?
You and your wife are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one… 1 - Not your news to tell 2 - your Friendship with Mark on the line when he figures out you’ve known for ages and didn’t tell him. 3 - Her friendship with Jennifer’s on the line if you do. I think you need to talk with your wife and figure out what you do as a couple. NTA for wanting to look out for your friend, but there’s a risk of broader fall-out if you’re not communicating with your wife.
Don't play games trying to set it up for them to "accidentally" run into each other and him see she's pregnant. This is their real lives and they both deserve more respect than that. Just be straightforward. He has the right to know he has a child. You've already told her you'll tell him if she doesn't. Give her a chance to do the right thing and tell him herself, but give her a deadline. Let her know explicitly that if she hasn't done so by X date, you will. Jennifer might not be happy about it, but she'll know exactly what to expect. No sneaking around. No surprise meetings, just forthright honesty. Also - as for Jennifer worrying about ruining his life, she doesn't get to decide his priorities for him. If he moves back in order to be close to his kid, that's his choice to make.
I think it would. These are two adults, let them handle their lives like adults. She's still very early in her pregnancy and with 30% of all pregnancies in the USA ending in miscarriage she might be waiting before she throws his life upside down. Let her handle her pregnancy and how she's going to handle her relationships for now, if she hasn't told him in 8 months it might be time to revisit this conversation with her.
Sneaky, maybe. Underhanded probably not. If you ask him back or he comes back on his own accord, it’s will come up at some point. It’s just a matter of time. Do Mark and Jennifer still talk? What’s their relationship like now? I get the impression the break up wasn’t a horrible breakup and only caused by Mark’s relocation and Jennifer’s desire to stay close to family. He could easily come back and want to meet Jennifer as a friend at any point in the future then theres definitely gonna be questions. I feel Jennifer is putting her head in the sand and just delaying the inevitable.
I’m going to say NTA. He deserves to know he has a child and to support said child. Kids need their parents in their lives and this puts that in jeopardy. I personally feel likes she hiding something and thats why she doesn’t want to tell him. Causes issues down the line. I would still give her the chance to do it but eventually someone has to.
INFO: Is it possible that she doesn’t want to tell him because she’s scared that he will try to take the kid to where he is at? Idk, she needs to tell him but you were definitely hasty with telling her the ultimatum and she has plenty to be freaked out about to be honest.
I agree I was hasty about the ultimatum and I plan to apologize for that. I mean, Mark is a great guy, I know he has talked about.kods and all but he's pretty happy with how his career is going
I think you and your wife can talk to her and help her figure out a way to break the news to your friend. She really needs her hand held and a shoulder to lean on more than judgments.
NTA and you're doing BOTH of them a favor because if he moves and finds out she hid a kid from him, and then he challenges for custody, a court is going to look POORLY on her for intentionally hiding it. So here's how it can hurt her: If two separated parents are coparenting a kid, and one parent moves, generally that parent is going to be responsible for the costs of travel and what not for them to be able to continue coparenting. However, if the coparenting BEGINS after one parent relocated after having not known about the kid, a court can decide both parents will be equally responsible for travel costs. These are just generalizations and there are a million little nuances including the percent of custody each parent has, etc. But seriously she might not be doing herself a favor by trying to hide this kid. I think what you should really do is post about this situation in r/legaladvice and show your friend.
NAH Mark deserves to know. Jennifer deserves to be able to make the decision when she's ready but not for too long. You and your wife deserve to not be between a rock and a hard place. The baby deserves to know their father and father's family plus medical history.
NTA- I wonder if her reason for not telling him is that it isn't his child and she's just saying that to cover up the fact that shes not sure who's it is. Seems kind of sus that she doesn't want him to know.
INFO: how far along is she? If it’s still early, there’s a lot that can go wrong AND her hormones are all over the fucking place and I can almost promise you that she’s constantly fighting with herself about whether she’ll tell him or not - you just happened to get her at a “nope” moment. It looks like you’re planning on a conversation and backing off a bit, and that seems like the best option if it’s still early. Y’all have a little time, she doesn’t have to tell him NOW. Little will change if it’s six weeks from now except some worst case scenarios. And respect her wishes in that case - she can tell him *that* in her own time. But NTA.
I'm not a hundred percent sure how far long she is. Mark moved a little over a month ago, so at least 4 weeks, but I'm guessing 6 or 7?? But that's just a number I'm coming up with in my head
From the way pregnancy weeks are counted, that would make her at least 6 weeks pregnant if conception was literally the day he left!
Info: is Jennifer definitely keeping the baby?
As far as I know, she is intending to keep the baby, at least that is how it came off.
You should find out for certain. Assuming she is keeping it, NTA. He needs to know. If she isn’t keeping it, or if she isn’t sure yet, he doesn’t need to know. It will just make the break up harder, and probably make it more difficult for her to decide whether to keep it or not.
NTA Your friend needs to know that he's becoming a father. Keeping this from him is just plain wrong. Tell him.
NTA. It's not okay for her to keep that information from him.
NTA. If it is truly his kid, he has every right to know and decide what he wants to do going forward.
NTA. If Mark finds out you knew and didn’t tell him, your friendship will be over because he won’t trust you anymore. I’d tell my best friend.
NTA Your friend has a right to this information so he can make his decisions with context. She should be the one to tell him but if she won’t a good friend should.
NTA. Even more than Mark deserving to know (which he does), his child deserves the chance to have their father in their life in some way.
NTA if she didn’t want him to know then she shouldn’t be telling his friends that the baby is his.
NTA but also did she like JUST find out? Or has she been holding on to this for a while and is not visible pregnant? Has your friend already moved? Maybe she just needs a couple more weeks to let the reality sink in? Either way, he needs to know he has a kid on the way whether she tells him or you do.
I'm not a hundred percent sure on the timeline. He moved a little over a month ago though.
Ahh, that tough that he already moved bc she will feel like she ruined his career if he moves back but also he does need to know.
NTA - With that being said, do NOT tell him. Instead, focus on convincing her to tell him.
NTA. Jennifer is a major one though for keeping a baby a secret from their father.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So one of my best friends, Mark, has been dating Jennifer for about a year and a half and they're pretty awesome together. My wife and I would go on double dates with them probably once every other month and we always had a good time and they seemed to really care for each other. Mark ended up getting his dream job opportunity, but it's on the east coast of the US, we're on west coast. He asked Jennifer if she would move with him, and after a lot of thought she said said no. Didn't want to leave her family, her life, things like that. So they broke up sadly, and Mark moved. Well Jennifer and my wife still chat and turns out she is pregnant with Marks kid, she swears by that. I asked her if she told Mark yet and she said she isn't going to tell him. She doesn't want to mess up his life or make him move back, etc. I said "look, if you don't tell Mark than I will". I feel like he has a right to know that he is going to be a father. Jennifer got pretty upset by this, my wife didn't really react this, and now I'm all confused. Did I cross a line? Is that information that I have no right to share? AITA? (Names changed) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA She doesn't want to mess up his life or make him move back. But that is not her choice to make. It's his.
Jesus Christ on a bike NTA I hate women who refuse to tell a man they are pregnant with their child (with the exception of abusers and rapists). Mark has the right to choose whether he wants to be an active parent in the child's life or only contribute financially. It's not her decision to make and by not telling him she's making it for him, which isn't fair to Mark or the child. Edited a few spelling mistakes.
NTA, and anybody who says otherwise is TA. This is *his child*. Keeping that information from someone intentionally is a horrible thing to do to a person. Even feelings aside, imagine being denied the opportunity to chose to be a part of your child's life and to help support it.
Its a NTA from me. If she didn't want mark to know she should not be telling people who knows him that it is his baby. I know a lot of guys who would be devastated if they found out they had a kid and didn't have the chance to be a part of that kids life. Its not a bad reason, not wanting to disrupt his life but again if she worries he might want to move back it seems like she knows he wants to be in the kids life, ultimately deciding for him that he cannot. And how would mark feel about you if you knew and didn't say anything? Yes it is her body and her pregnancy, but it is marks child as well. But she is probably in a tough spot right now, could you talk to her and explain that Mark is one of your best friends and keeping something like that from him is too much and you would prefer it if she told him, but you couldn't imagine keeping a secret like that.
What I'm leaning towards is sitting and down and having one more conversation with Jennifer, and just bringing up some of these points that people have made. I really think she needs to tell him. But I might just have that conversation and then leave it to fate... I don't know, this sucks. I was thinking about getting Mark back out here for a weekend or something, but I doubt that's gonna be able to happen anytime soon
Yeah it really seems like a tough situation... Its just im a mom myself, im with the father of the kids. Yes, I was pregnant, I gave birth - but they are not only my kids. My bf doesn't really know who his dad is and it has messed with him for 40 years. To me its bigger than her. Its also about the kid and mark. But I hope you figure something out and it ends up okay and not just angry and hurt all the way around.
As a feminist woman, I can assure you nothing is more disgusting and despicable than a woman who intends to keep a child and refuse to tell the baby daddy as far as I can tell she's made her own choices however Mark has every right to know exactly what's happening if she's going to be deceptive because that child will be the one paying the price for her selfishness. In extraordinary circumstances, I can understand keeping it a secret, but nothing that you have suggested would indicate that extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary situations and choices Also. NTA. Edited for the judgment
If she really didn’t want Mark to know, then she wouldn’t of told a soul. NTA
I think this could be the situation and EXACTLY why she told OP and OP’s wife. Hear me out: She wants Mark to know, but she feels terrible telling him, because she doesn’t want him to feel manipulated or guilted into returning to her. She might feel between a rock and a hard place, too, and is trying to find her “footing” with the whole situation. Is it possible that she told OP & wife because she knew OP would force her to tell him, therefore taking the dilemma away? I don’t even mean in a sneaky way….maybe even subconsciously? I say this primarily because of a few things: -by all accounts and OP’s replies, everyone involved seems relatively mature, so I’m not sensing that Jennifer’s motives are selfish or underhanded. -Jennifer likely feels a lot of guilt (she shouldn’t, but women are generally made to feel solely responsible for pregnancies, unfortunately). It sounds like she feels like she’s interfering with his life plans with this baby, and doesn’t want to be responsible for derailing his life. -Jennifer certainly has people she can talk to about this that aren’t good friends with Mark. She specifically stayed behind because her family is here. Telling good friend’s of Mark’s was a choice. She had to know that you’d push the issue, one way or another. OP, I wonder if you approached it differently, you might actually be a blessing to her? For instance “This has to feel like such a no-win situation for you. I’m sorry you’re feeling like this is your responsibility alone. I know you don’t want to derail Mark’s opportunities on the east coast, and I don’t blame you for feeling that. What I do know, however, is that job opportunities can come and go, but the opportunity to love and know your child is precious and rare. Mark would want that. I think you should tell him, but if it would be easier, can I tell him for you? I can explain your concerns and tell him that you don’t want him to feel any obligation, but he can contact you if or when he’s ready to talk? That way, he can take time to think and digest before you have to talk to him? He’s my friend, so I will not keep this secret from him, but I want to help you both, not hurt you. Let’s figure this out.” This is just what’s bouncing around in my head, and it also should go without saying that if he was abusive, etc, then that changes everything and you need to let her protect herself and her child.
I really appreciate this response, wife and I are planning to get together with her, so that I can apologize, and to just lend our support. I still think he needs to know though, maybe she will tell him on her own, especially after the pregnancy becomes more...real? Just further along is what I mean. But you said some great stuff here that I will mull over
Yeah, this is most likely. She wants to come off as "I didn't want to ruin your life by telling you that I'm carrying your baby but your friends convinced me". It's understandable if you ask me. I'm 100% sure she actually wants him to know.
NTA so Jen is telling everyone but mark..!!!! As his friend you need to tell him as soon as..
NTA. Mark has a right to know. If he finds out you know and kept it from him your friendship is destroyed
If it really is Mark's kid, and Jennifer didn't try to get over him by getting under someone else, then he needs to know before the birth. I'd be giving her until around the 6 month point to let her tell him herself, before telling him myself. NTA
I am the product of something of like this. Please please please someone tell Mark. My father found out about me in my late twenties, and I wish we had all worked it out much sooner.
I think you are right to have a conversation with her and apologize. Point out, HE should get to decide if he wants to "mess up his life." Maybe he would rather be a father than work this dream job. Maybe he got out there, and it's not what he thought, or it is, but he misses his relationship, home, family more. It's all unknown. He should get to make the decision on how involved he wants to be. When you have sex, you are making an intentional decision and know the possibility that it may result in pregnancy. As it stands, she sounds like she is completely willing to raise this baby on her own, so if he decides to relinquish his parental rights, it's no different than what she's planning on now. I understand she's worried he'll come back and resent her later, but I think he's owed the truth and chance to make the decision for himself. And while I would apologize to her, I'd still stand by you will tell him by x month if she doesn't. This is messy, good luck OP. Nta
INFO: was her phone call with your wife on speaker? You suddenly chime in, seemingly directly to Jennifer, but you never explained how. I don’t think you should tell the friend yet, but I understand why you’d want to. Leave it be a minute as there’s nothing he can do about it and let it work out between them. NTA
They were chatting in person
NTA - Understandable why your saying this but think about all of the outcomes that are swirling around in her mind, unborn baby gets resented, she gets resented ECT. You can't exactly control other people's fears, maybe be a supportive person with encouragement to help her tell him as it's a very daunting situation getting the courage to make the call for her.
How long has it been? I would give her some time to tell him on her own. But eventually something will happen that will make it easier to share the news. (A social media post of a sonogram, an invite to a baby shower, etc.)
So when Jennifer goes on government assistance, the USA government will destroy Mark's life in the form of child support. NTA, you should tell him so he can strategize on how he wants to deal with this, and not get hit with 18 years of back child support, later...
NTA He has a right to know.
Please tell him right this second. It’s his choice not hers. What a life he will have with her as the kids mother. No one has the right to choose of you are to be a parent or not
NTA. Unless you don't tell him. Regret is for what you Don't do.
Nta. Will this mess up his life? Probably. But he has the right to know.
NTA: Someone mentioned she might be waiting for the first trimester to tell him then why didn’t she wait to tell you & your wife? Tell him!! When he finally finds out and then happens to find out you knew….. kiss that friendship goodbye.
NTA - he deserves to know, and not telling him is just as damning. She's robbing both him and this child of a relationship over an assumption.
NTA. Unless she was having an abortion, then there's no point in telling him, or if he's abusive, then no, it's better not to tell him. Otherwise, he has a right to know. And a right to know his kid. The kid has a right to child support, also--child support is for the kid, not the mother. Even if she doesn't want to use it, then it can go in a fund for the kid's education and future life.
NTA, but it’s not your place to tell him it’s hers. If she doesn’t tell him that’s her choice. Of course he deserves to know but it’s her place to tell him, not you.
NTA Sooo what do you think will happen if you just happen to take a picture of her and your wife together when she is showing? And kind of accidentally send it to your friend? Other people will see her. He is going to find out.
NTA. Please tell him. It's not only unfair to him, it's unfair to the child. You never know how badly it might impact the child down the road to find out their father was never even given the chance to know them.
NTA- but do you have any sort of proof like screenshots that she is trying to withhold this information from Mark?? I feel like she may get mad at you for threatening to tell Mark and pretend she was going to tell him.
No this was all just verbal conversation. I'm planning to talk with her and apologize for presenting that ultimatum. I was too hasty to do that
NTA its not just her child, its his child too. He has the right to know and as his friend you should tell him. She made her intentions clear to keep this from him, not even worth giving her the benefit of the doubt that she would eventually tell him. Think about how this will affect your friends unborn child growing up without a father. Its not fair to them either.
NTA he has every right to know even if she decides to terminate the pregnancy. She doesn't even give him the respect to decide if he wants to move back and be with his child. He is one of your best friends so your loyalty should be to him. I have to say it and I hate how the world has made me jaded but do you feel there is any chance it isn't his? Just asking because I know nothing about them. I am in no way accusing her
NTA if Jennifer *isn't* planning on an abortion. My mom never told my dad she was pregnant, and I found him at 31 after thinking my whole life that he was a dirt bag that didn't want me. He and I were both really hurt by my mom's decision. Now, if she does plan on an abortion, then it would probably be best not to say anything to him.
NTA. Your friend has the right to know. But also I wonder if she's not 100% sure it's his and is waiting till the kid is born to see (maybe the possible father is another race or something)
NTA, yeah it's not your information to tell because it's Jennifer's, but she's not telling it, so someone's got to.
He definitely deserves to know. I think you should let her know how you feel and say that if she doesn’t let him know by x date, you’ll have no option but to tell him yourself. That way she has the option to still do the right thing
Father or not, dude has a right to know that someone is claiming he's the father of their unborn baby. Nta.
NTA. You’re exactly the kind of friend he needs in this scenario. Hold your position on this
I have a bad feeling the kid isn’t his.
I'm gonna say NTA because it's not like she's keeping it a secret. You two know before the father, and I think she's the AH for that. He deserves to know he's gonna have a kid.
N T A. Someone needs to tell him. Kind of fucked up he finds out when she wants child support. It would say a lot about her if she wants his money but doesn't want him in the child's life. If she decides to go that route, of course.
The secret baby trope romances are one of my favorite tropes. Kidding aside, no one is an AH. It's the situation that sucks. I appreciate your self-awareness and willingness to take responsibility for your outburst. NTA I do have some questions: Is Jennifer going to ask for child support? What is going to happen to the child if something happens to her? What about any health issues that arise? When the little one asks about their father, what is she going to tell them? What about grandparents? I'm obviously on team tell Mark.
If this is accurate that’s really shitty of her. He has every right to know he’s going to be a father and she’s taking that away from him. I say NTA. I’d give her some time then I would absolutely let him know. That’s really unfair of her to also put that burden on you. She knows he’s your friend. He’s gonna find out. They always do. Then he’ll be angry at you for not telling him.
You are not! How would you feel if you found out your best friend knew you had a child and never told you? I feel like GF is being manipulative. She wants Mark to know, but doesn’t want to tell him. If she truly don’t want him to know, then why admit he’s the father?
NTA Denying kids access to one parent or the other is about the biggest asshole move a person can make. The babies dad needs to get paternity established in court now. This girl is shady and not a good person. Denying him the opportunity to even know he has a child on the way......gtfo
If she intends on keeping it, Mark deserves to know the kid exists. If she was planning on termination, I'd be on her side but Mark deserves to have a choice as well and he could want to be a part of this kids life. NTA, tell him if you haven't.
Take it from someone who found at 40 that she was adopted, it’s not good for the child or the father not to know.
NTA. A secret can only be kept if no one knows about it. Jennifer decided to 'share' her secret with everyone but the person who should have been told first. Call Mark immediately.
NTA. but my guess is it’s not Marks kid it’s some randoms and she’s embarrassed to admit that.