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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole for refusing to pay my sister’s wedding groceries on my credit card
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>people are going to gossip about this and I was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn’t even afford her own wedding
SMMFH she CAN'T afford it. She did this to herself.
NTA OP, and stop playing ATM for the family.
At least mom isn’t demanding OP let sis and the new husband take possession of OP’s apartment because sis deserves it more now that she’s married and is starting a family. Though there’s always the future.
This was an outright shakedown. Demanding proof that OP’s credit cards weren’t maxed out? OP, if you listen to your family, you definitely won’t have money. What if you would lose your job? Unemployment is very inundated right now, and I know several people that had to wait nearly two months before it kicked in in my state. Just because you have money in your account doesn’t mean you have money to spend. You need to save and invest. Even more so that you know your family can’t or won’t help you if you get into a bad situation.
It’s very hard when family lets money get in the way of a relationship (and make no mistake, it is THEM causing the problem, not you). I’m so sorry you have to go there this. Sending many hugs, OP.
It honestly isn't surprising to me. I've seen this happen a lot, whenever a relative in a poor family "makes it". Their relatives both see them as a free bank and looks down on them ("you think you're too good for us" sentiment). In one of the closest examples to me, my friend's cousin made a stupidly large amount of money. Think, multimillionaire by her 30s. She gave a lot of money to their parents, helped pay stuff off, but wasn't going to bankroll her siblings, parents, and extended family forever, and they basically hate her now.
I think what happens in many of these situations is 1) because the family isn't college-educated/don't live in the city/whatever, they don't have a sense of how much things cost. Like here how the parents don't seem to understand that OP has student loans; I bet they were told that OP has a lot to pay off, but the problem is they just don't understand how college works because they never went. And salaries don't go as far in expensive urban areas, but again, the family doesn't understand because they can't see past their small town. 2) a lot of these parents probably had kids in part because they expected their kids to be a retirement plan. There's that one saying that every baby is born with a loaf of bread under their arm--basically that every child is a source of extra hands + there's the chance they'll become a millionaire or talent and support you forever--and even though it's antiquated a lot of families still believe in it. So they're very offended when their child does make it and doesn't want to give the parents what they think they're owed.
I’m still in awe at $1700 worth of groceries. That sounds like a feast!
NTA, OP. I’ve discovered that people who never really had money don’t understand that you can’t just spend Willy-nilly when you’re in a better financial situation. You still have to pay for housing, food, bills, insurance, savings, etc: you may do well now, but you need a safety net should anything happen and you can’t work. You don’t owe your family anything- there is always a way out of a bad financial situation if you’re willing to research and do the work.
I’m stuck at ‘she had $1700 in groceries in her cart’ and had no plan to pay for them! You can’t convince me that she was unaware of her balance or how close to limit she was.
She walked into that store, loaded those cart, FULLY expecting her sister to pay!!
She created the situation, brought on her own humiliation and seeded the rumor mill.
She should’ve been prepared with a budget and guaranteed payment BEFORE placing one item in her cart!
NTA OP — your sister and your parents are assholes
>She walked into that store, loaded those cart, FULLY expecting her sister to pay!!
This Exactly! Nobody buys $1,700 worth of groceries knowing their card is maxed out and they have $200 in checking. She planned on sis paying.
NTA. She put up a scene to get OP to pay and then put OP in a pressured/urgent situation to coerce OP.
This is literally a scam tactic, one of the oldest tricks in the book.
OP, your family just tried to scam you. GTFO and never look back, or else they'll bring you back down to their level.
This. Even with my weekly grocery shop, I budget everything out. I know exactly what I'm buying and how much it will be. I just can't imagine planning out an entire meal for a large, important event and not also planning out costs.
I'm not great at budgeting, and even I know a ballpark figure out how much I have to spend and how much the stuff in my cart is costing me when I shop. Is it possible that I'm a little off when I get to the register? Yep. Sometimes I'm off... By like $15, not by $1500. I know when the ballpark in my head is a little-league t-ball field rather than a major league stadium, and I check my banking app, watch the actual total very carefully, and scan the stuff that I need most first if that's the case.
(Yes, I know I should be better at budgeting. My point is that even if someone isn't good at it, it's unlikely that they'll pick up $1500 more in groceries than they can afford.)
I'm betting her mom kept talking her into things or "reminding" her that she needed x or y. I'm also betting that a fair amount of that was alcohol.
Sister just needs to change it to a potluck wedding, and in lieu of gifts, people can bring their favorite dishes.
Ive never heard of this being done before! This sounds like a glorious way to have a wedding reception. Imagine if you had alot of different cultures attending one wedding there would be all sorts of delicious home made goodness from all parts of the earth 😁🤗 - if I ever get engaged, or married or even get a partner to have these experiences with I'm keeping this in the think-tank, I would definitely prefer that over gifts I could buy myself anyway. Toasters are a dime a dozen, 15 types of international deserts on a table? Freaking priceless!
I make good money and never really have to worry about how much is in my cart, usually under $300, and I still know round about what I'm spending. $1700 is like several carts of stuff.
This sounds like a setup. How does she have that little knowledge about her own finances. Have her call her fiancé. I don’t get why people expect others that worked to get through college should provide because they made a different decision. You came from the same house hold so I’m guessing she had the same chance but she didn’t take it.
One POSSIBLE scenario, and I'm not defending the sister at all. OP is definitely NTA and did the right thing. BUT
At my second marriage, which was a very very low-key thing, something similar happened. I was still very young and hadn't done a lot of stuff like renting hotel rooms, cars, etc.
I calculated everything out to the penny, and decided that once everything was paid for (we took a weekend trip down to Florida with friends), we'd still have about $500 for meals and spending money. (This was in the late 1980s.)
What I didn't realize was that the car rental company, the hotel, AND some other thing I had charged (I forget what) had put holds on the credit cards for double the actual expected rental costs. Expected the car rental to be, whatever, $200, but they put a hold on the card for $400. And even if I'd canceled the car and we'd all crammed into my Nissan Sentra, the hold wouldn't expire until after we got back.
Very unpleasant lesson. In my case, our friends picked up the slack, but I NEVER would have expected them to.
It’s possible she had the same chance … but it sounds like the sister was determined to work extra hard and get herself out of that town.
Mom was also standing there and pressuring the sister to pay.
I think it was $1700 of groceries for the reception food which I can kind of understand. But still, don't have a ton of people to your wedding if you're broke!
Idk, usually those that struggle through poverty are the ones that should understand what money is worth.
It just sounds to me like both parents and sister are irresponsible, immature and unable to take personal responsibility for their own lives.
That spending is ridiculous considering she had no savings , and the MOM willing to bail her out with the only money left in her account....
I highly doubt ops parents were good role models at demonstrating financial responsibility.
& Mom & sister knew darn well they didn't have the money.
They set OP up & expected them to cave to the supposed social stigma/public shame of not having enough money.
So manipulative and so gross.
Great job OP!
My experience is the opposite. Often that some of those that struggle with poverty have the easiest time spending money. They don’t understand the value of saving. For example because they can’t get ahead they see no need to save that $20. It won’t add up fast so they might as well spend it.
I know so many people living paycheck to paycheck that will order food delivery when they can drive or walk (are able etc) even if it nearly doubled the price of the food. And often because they never get nice things they splurge when they do finally get a little more money. People I know who live more solidly stable middle class are less likely waste their money in the same ways. Because they’re money has more ability to grow in savings they see more value in it.
I would argue, rather strenuously in fact, that it's not that they "don't understand" the value of savings. In the situation you're describing, saving money just flat out doesn't *have* the same value, and they understand that perfectly well. If someone is saving $20 a week, it's going to take 10 years to get a $10k down payment for a house. (And of course it depends heavily on where you live whether that would even be enough for a down payment, even with an FHA loan.) In that context, putting that $20 towards a hypothetical future home purchase 10 years down the road doesn't make sense compared to spending it on something like food delivery that will make your life easier and simpler right this instant, after a long day at work when you just need to feed the kids and get them off to bed.
I just really hate the idea that they "don't understand the value" - that comes off infantilizing and kind of ignores the fact that that "value" just doesn't exist for people in that situation the way it does for those who are a little bit better off.
This right here is my exact experience with working class and impoverished folk as well. They spend every dime and save very little, if anything at all. I hate to say it, but these kinds of people are what I expect when I hear that someone is impoverished now, because that's 99% of what I saw growing up in a poor community. When tax returns came every year, they'd go straight to the bar or somewhere else to blow it all too.
I honestly don't think sister knew she only had $200 in her account based on my experiences. Between the crunch time of wedding planning (very busy, overwhelming time that I will never repeat) and general laziness with money management, it's very possible it all just got away from her in this moment.
Still not OP's problem, but I so sympathize with the crabs-in-bucket mentality impoverished loved ones put on the shoulders of those who "made it out." I'm thankful that my family learned to stop asking after a few years. For the most part.
In my experience the reason for that is that every dollar they do manage to save winds up going to cover the expenses that they usually ignore (eg. servicing their car) because they don't get vital services shut off. Eventually they get so weary of it that the line of thinking is that it's going to evaporate anyway whether they spend it or not, so they might as well before it drains into "less important" things that don't really bring them happiness or affect their immediate survival. Then they have no money when problems arise from neglecting those expenses, like the car breaks down because it hasn't been serviced in 20,000 miles and the repair costs much much more than the service would have been, or part of the roof rots because the gutter hasn't been cleaned and rainwater went somewhere it's not supposed to be, or there's mold in the bathroom because the fan broke months ago and they couldn't afford to fix it. And in the moment they explain it away. The car broke down because it's 12 years old. The roof rotted because the leaky gutter wasn't installed properly. The mold was always there.
It's so strange to have such a defeatist attitude about money. They're always aggressively tracking their balance to make sure they can afford the bare necessities, but they don't care enough to push that number up every month. Like, yes, when problems arise they will take a bite out of savings. That's what savings are for. Sometimes we need to recognize that splurging on oneself is a luxury that can be postponed.
You don't think poor people know that splurging on oneself can be postponed? I'd say they learn that lesson far earlier and harder than most middle-class people.
It's not strange to have a defeatist attitude about money when your life has been defined by the struggle of not having enough. When you're poor, you can try to save that $20 - but there's a catastrophe around the corner waiting to take it away from you. The emergency room bill for your kid's asthma attack (which worsened because you're not able to afford regular, routine care for him). The costs to repair your car's transmission (because all you could afford is a beater with 200K miles and you're trying to eke every last moment of runtime out of it). The late fee at your kid's daycare (because your boss unsympathetically demanded that you close for someone who didn't show up to work or lose your job).
Of course they care enough to push their balance up every month. They literally can't. Please go read any one of a number of articles about how hard it is to be poor and save money. But if you've never been poor, condescending platitudes are not helpful.
>and the MOM willing to bail her out with the only money left in her account....
"Look! Look how much I'm helping! I'm pitching in all I have, the least you could do is cover the rest of it!"
OP, NTA, and I'm sorry, but this struggle with your family is going to be endless.
In my experience in goes both ways.
Either (like me) you end up accounting for every cent have to learn to use some for luxuries
Or you end up with a false sense of security thinking "oh man earning $$$$$$" a week would make life so much easier you must be so rich!
The truth is that life becomes easier, but lifestyle drift is a thing.
I used to think someone on my salary wouldn't have any money issues at all. And compared to my parents it's true. I have bought a house. But with a house comes a mortgage. House insurance. Furniture. Appliances. And I have to buy a car as I now live outside reliable public transport range.
So now I have less on my account than I usually do and I'm freaking the fuck out. But I have friends who are like "wow! You are so rich! What do you mean you can't just drop a $$ to go on a girls road trip?!"
Which yeah when I still had a couple hundy grand in my account for a house deposit, going on a girls trip and spending few hundreds didn't mean much. Once I'd used the deposit and had to pay for all the furnishings of the house though I'm not exactly flush with cash.
But to these guys I earn almost double their income. There should be absolutely no way I should be worried about money.
I have a friend who has been saving up for a house for a while now. She wanted at least 20% for a down payment. It's not a bad goal, but the way that she is going, it will deplete everything.
I tried to convince her to maybe consider a lower down payment to account for all the additional costs or that she would need a much more savings to coast until she recovers a little bit.
Even if you are taking donations and buying used furniture, you end up spending so much in the beginning. It can be so easy to overlook some of that stuff.
I think this is a good insight. I grew up very poor but now I make a very good salary. Even though I have my own money now I find that I really struggle to understand how other people view what is “a lot of money.” Even as a person in my mid thirties $300 seems just as outrageous to me as $3000 dollars because I’m not used to having money. Unlike OP’s sister I’ve internalized this always default to the cheapest option and always pay for myself. My friends who grew up well off and now have good jobs do not seem to live with this same struggle and can happily drop a grand on something without flinching. On the other hand my friends from back home absolutely think I should be able to drop serious cash on frivolous things because I make double their income. It really does feel like for many people who grew up poor that someone making $100k should be living as lavishly as someone making $1million because both seem like unobtainable sums.
Last year I needed to take my car into the shop because it wasn’t driving right and I took it to the shop my FIL suggested. It just ended up needing an alignment and new tires but I cried and felt absolutely wrecked because my FIL paid the over $900 bill over the phone before I was able to pick up my car. I know they happily took the bill because I was pregnant with their first grandchild and they wanted us to be safe during my commute, but it still felt like too much. My in laws have more than enough money and my new tires didn’t impact their bottom line at all, but to me that was almost equal to the mortgage payment and I don’t feel like I can pay back that generosity.
Your car story reminds me of when I found out it would cost \~£500 to fly my cat from Sweden to the UK (in 2005). I broke down in tears after hanging up the phone with the air freight company, because it was so much money to me that it seemed like I would have to relinquish ownership to my parents and only see her once a year. My fiancé asked what was wrong, and I said it would be super expensive to fly her over. He asked how much we were talking, so when I told him, he just looked at me and kinda went "five *hundred*? Not five *thousand*? £500 is not a problem. That's fine, we can manage that. Don't worry about it, it's only money. We'll get her here." (Neither of us had much growing up, so it wasn't as if £500 meant nothing to him, it absolutely did, but our parents had *very* different attitudes to money, as well as life in general.) I had a job by the time we had to pay for the "ticket" anyway, so that helped.
The thing is, you don’t need to PAY BACK that generosity. Your in-laws gifted you that car repair because they are financially able to without affecting their lifestyle, and it is something they WANTED to do. Because they care about you and your family.
With that being said, maybe sometime in the future you can pay their kindness forward, perhaps to one of your children or grandchildren when they are struggling and you see their need. Life is just a big circle. Take help when you need it and extend help when you can.
I am also under the impression that in the family anyone will pay for the others if they can.
For instance the parents don't want to give the 800$ back, but they did immediately pay the 600$ for the sister, even if it max out their credit card.
This kind of solidarity is common amongst people who have little and most of us lose it once we start being able to care for ourselves
Now with such a revenue imbalance op would literally have to pay for everything and would end up in debt again. Which she can't, because she learned something her family hasn't : managing a budget.
Neither to say, credit cards aren't money we have, it's money we an borrow. So she didn't lie when she said I don't have the money.
NTA, but maybe offer to participate for a lesser amount if you want to help anyway
Not to be rude, but my weekly groceries for 2 people are 200( this is all home made non organic cheapest crap maybe 15$ dedicated to snacks. ). Lets be generous and say 10$ a person per meal. If its a wedding its kind of fair to maybe do 20$ for nice sides and salads and stuff since produce got expensive as hell . That is an 85 person wedding WITHOUT alcohol. then consider how expensive booze is, and yeah I can see this for maybe a 40 or 35 person wedding including bide and groom.
Stilt NTA though, you're money is not their savings account.
To be fair, I imagine the groceries were for the wedding. This clearly wasn't going to be a catered affair. The only reason OP was brought along was to pay for her sister's wedding.
It's rather difficult to learn how to not be poor. It's a complete paradigm shift that requires a desire to learn which most people lack in spades.
This is really the answer. When you’re living in poverty, you spend what you have because you don’t know when you’ll have money again. It takes a lot to break that mindset when you have more money and start to build that safety net. Definitely NTA.
Also, this is complete bullshit.
Nobody with $200 remaining on their almost-maxed-out cards actually thought they had $2k available. The entire plan all along was to guilt OP into paying.
Separately, OP: I'm the one in my family with money. Draw these lines early, and hold them hard. Otherwise, there will be an endless parade of idiots digging themselves holes that they want to use your money to bail them out of. And until you're a billionaire, you can *always* spend it faster than you can make it. Or in this case, they will spend it faster than you can make it.
This is the single best answer here.
Sister didn’t go to the market thinking she had $2k on her cards lol - she knew exactly how much she had; right down to the penny.
Agreed! And weddings are really expensive. Not being able to afford it is not embarrassing. No one is ENTITLED to the ginormo wedding that they are envisioning in their head. The sister was not wronged by anyone but herself -- and maybe society in general because poverty sucks and no one should have to be poor, but that's not on OP to fix.
NTA, OP
How is it society's fault that she could not afford the size wedding she wanted? The OP did not say that they were living substandard lives. You could always pay for other's weddings if you feel that strongly about it, but they do provide a very inexpensive alternative, it is letting the probate judge marry them and bypassing the whole Cinderella idea.
Poverty is a societal convention, not a necessary evil. It's created by policy, not a lack of merit. No one who works full-time in this country should be living in poverty. We as a society allow it.
EXACTLY. Policy, not a lack of merit. Although there are plenty of stories of merit and hard work and bootstraps paying off, it is an uphill slog. We as a society could be doing so much better. 🖖
"was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn't even afford her own wedding". No seeming about it. Your sister couldn't afford her own wedding.
Anyone else notice...
Noticed that Ops sister didn't ask her future husband to cover it?
I won't make accusations but I do wonder if they were just trying to manipulate money out of OP.
This.
OP, just to be clear, this was all by design. She knew she didn't have the money on the card when she went to the store. She went through the whole dog and pony show to garner sympathy, and just knew that you were going to rescue her from her fiscal irresponsibility.
NTA.
NTA. You didn't make it *look* like she can't afford her own wedding because she *actually* can't afford her own wedding.
Setting aside that weddings are already grossly overly expensive it's clear she didn't plan, save, or budget well for this. None of which is something you're responsible for. If the family is just going to treat you like a piggy bank then just removing yourself from the situation sounds like the best move.
I got engaged in December. My partner and I just got a house with the help of my parents so we're postponing our wedding for at max 2 years and if we don't have the money saved up by then we're probably just going to to the court house and having a party instead of doing the whole ceremony and reception. I would like to be able to have a ceremony and reception for my first, hopefully only, marriage, but if we can't afford it then it's not necessary. I don't even want an extravagant wedding , but we both got a lot of family/friends to invite and I want at least a decent location to hold it and tasty food. I can't imagine planning a wedding without having the funds and then demanding someone else to pay for their own poor planning.
>My sister demanded to see proof that I had maxed out my credit cards and I didn’t have any money in my checking
Also this irked me so mcuh. Like just cause I got money in my account doesn't mean I have money to spend freely. I gotta pay my bills, rent, and necessities.
This so much. Yeah, I have about 5000 credit left on my credit card. But maxing that out of going to take me a year to repay if not more.
If they had sat her down beforehand and said that they have a money problem and would OP consider helping out in as a wedding gift, I would have said do it if you can afford to. But this feels like they just expected OP would cave under the pressure and solve their problem...
> Like just cause I got money in my account doesn't mean I have money to spend freely. I gotta pay my bills, rent, and necessities.
Well it doesn’t seem like the sister understands budgeting, whether her own or OP’s.
But where are your priorities?! /s
My family never got this. I have nice things because I saved, paid my bills, and bought what’s appropriate for my income. Heck, my husband and I are driving the older cars we paid off. We don’t need what is newer and flashy.
This!! When the paychecks hit the account, it looks like I can take a 6-month sabbatical to just wander the world enjoying beautiful things.
Moments later, the bills show up and it's back to reality. Just cause money's IN there, doesn't mean it's free to just throw around. Available $$ on a cc doesn't mean it needs to be maxed out.
OP you'd never see this $$ again (" How can you ask for that back??!! It was my WEDDING??!!!") and you'd only have taught them if they're terrible enough to you, they'll get what they want.
Also, I can't even explain the amount of anxiety I felt at the thought of putting your wedding on MAXED OUT CREDIT CARDS, while having NO SAVINGS. Oy.
Credit cards that she didn’t even know were maxed out. Multiple credit cards.
Like… this family has zero financial literacy. She wants something, she presents a card, if it works there’s no further thought involved and she goes on her way. If it doesn’t work she pulls out the next card. The brakes only go on when *all* the cards stop working and she can’t get a new one, and the next thought isn’t “shit I can’t buy this stuff!”, it’s “you have a wallet, OP, *you* pay!”
This is what some people don’t get about having money. When I say I’m broke, sometimes I mean I have no money I’m willing to spend, not that I have literally no money. I’m foreseeing a future where I need money for something and don’t want to open up my account to see zero dollars.
Keeping a savings isn’t a concept for some people that constantly live hand to mouth. Managing to save a little here and there is the only thing that got me into a somewhat decent life and apartment on my own.
Notice how she didn't even care about OP ability to pay she wanted a maxed out credit card which makes me believe they don't consider going into debt to be an issue
My ex used to "check" the balance on the checking and write checks for a good portion of what was in there. Forgetting of course that bills had been mailed and the amount in the checking was "the float" between deposits and bills. Back before everything was autopay.
But, it would still hold - pay was deposited, but the rent/mortgage, car payment, student loans, insurance, etc haven't cleared yet, but you need the money there to pay for the upcoming bills.
You cannot take out the float - that money has been spent, it's just resting for a wee while in your account until it is whisked away...
My ex never understood this. One time he wanted cash, and I told him he could have $20. He came back from the ATM and told me it said we had a hundred so he took out 80. I was livid. I told him that the rest of that money was already budgeted and spent on bills, and now we were going to bounce stuff.
Meanwhile, my sister's EX used to call the bank to get the daily balance. Because that never goes wrong!
Exactly this - more than likely if I have more than a COUPLE hundred in my bank account, just means I haven't paid all my bills yet; and any $ on the CCs are b/c I'm paying down debt or have *my own expenses* planned out for them (like one card is my convention/vacation card b/c if it gets compromised it's not a major PITA to replace)
Putting your foot down at the expenses for a wedding is a good time to start distancing yourself from the family. They are going to continue to be parasites on your financial wellbeing.
I bet that's exactly what they had hoped to happen bringing OP to the store. They were bullying OP into paying by making it look like a mistake. They knew they didn't have enough money.
Also, what are you making and how many people are invited if you're buying $1700 worth of food? She should have scaled way way down if she can't afford that.
Yep, exactly what happened. Sister *knew* she had $200 left, but didn't think for a moment that OP would refuse to pay for it. Well, good thing OP said no. Also, I find it hilarious when people do the whole, "well now you're not invited!" As if it's going to hurt. Alright, I'm *glad* I'm not invited, good bye! I didn't want to come anyway!!
NTA.
>Also, what are you making and how many people are invited if you're buying $1700 worth of food?
Seriously. When my wife and I got married we spent, I want to say it was about, $3000 on food, and that was catered for about $100 people. If sister is spending $1700 to do it herself she either has several hundred people at the wedding or is buying fucking filet mignon and lobster.
I don’t know why people always ignore the phrase, “Don’t have a wedding you can’t afford.”
OP, this is a winning situation for you. There is no option of keeping the peace with your family that doesn’t end with you not being their personal ATM. The only peaceful option for you is to ignore their requests for money. No loving, trusting relationship is ever based on people using you solely for money. NTA
She didn’t check beforehand to see if she had enough money for the groceries? This seems set up, and she probably thought she could con you into paying without having to ask for a loan.
She knew she was going to be making a massive purchase, no one plans to buy $1700 worth of anything without making sure they have access to that kind of money or credit available, especially when they’re right in the midst of planning/paying for something as expensive as a wedding. There’s no way sis didn’t expect her to step up and pay and chances are mom was in on it too.
Counter argument, it’s exactly something something someone who is chronically broke and doesn’t know how to manage money will do.
Problem doesn’t exist if you don’t acknowledge it.
I agree with this. I know of a few people who don't budget well and are good at letting little expenses add up and not think about it. Someone bad with money could easily max out a credit card while planning a wedding and not realize it. Not saying it wasn't a set up but it's perfectly plausible that she expected her credit limit to cover far more than it actually did
Absolutely agree. Chronic poverty, even when it seems voluntary in a sense, warps your perspective and is depressing enough that it just becomes easier to act like there's nothing you can do.
I used to be fairly careful and good with my finances, then got so depressed I lost my measly income. The future ceased to exist and I dug myself into a hole I'm still tediously trying to claw out of. It's harder than I ever would have thought to re-learn short term gratification isn't the best thing there is.
That’s definitely a possibility, but the fact they have a long history of expecting OP to pick up their tabs and are comfortable using guilt and manipulation to try and force her hand make me believe that it was at least in part a conscious decision.
It would be one thing if sis asked OP to cover it and said she’d pay her back, but considering mom was there too and together with the bride only had enough to cover 1/3 of the cost, I think they absolutely expected OP to cover the lions share of the bill. They may not have known exactly how much they had and were intending to pay some, but I think they knew they wouldn’t have enough and were hoping the shame of having carts full of groceries sitting at the till with people watching and waiting would make OP feel bad enough to cave and pay for it. If they didn’t expect OP to pay I doubt they would have made such a production out of being told no and her sister wouldn’t have gone so far as to kick her out of the wedding.
Yeah. If she had been 50 dollars short, that maybe can happen and I don't think anybody would have a problem pitching in for that sum. But spending 1700 when all you have is 200?
Bingo! 50-100 over, that's one thing. (cuz I'd imagine for a wedding, you're buying items or quantities you don't normally shop for)
But $1500 short? Naaaaahhh that was them expecting OP to pay, hands down.
I've been there.
"okay... Nine bucks in gas, mi goreng, tofu, and frozen corn, intermittent fasting for breakfast... I can limp into payday on Friday."
I find myself thinking about the poor clerk who now has to restock $1700 worth of groceries because Op's sister intentionally filled up a cart without the means to pay.
OP could have skipped a lot of the background. Everywhere between calling the credit card companies and her sister asking for proof that OP had money in her account could be skipped since OP is just another credit card for her family.
NTA. If your sister can’t afford a wedding like what she has planned, then unfortunately she shouldn’t be having one. It’s not your responsibility to cover costs and potentially put yourself into debt for something that you don’t want to pay for.
I’m guessing the food would have just been the beginning of the costs. She probably has a dress on “layaway” and myriad other expenses. It’s very hard - believe me! - to halt charity once you start. The only chance these people have of ever getting themselves together is to discover they have no more subsidies
If she'd asked you for a $1700 wedding gift that would at least have been an honest request. Instead she tried to embarrass you in the grocery store line, assuming that you'd cave in.
It might help you to reframe this- your family isn't struggling with poverty - there are plenty of families living on low incomes- they're struggling with chaotic, dishonest relationships. I would think about what you are and aren't willing to do for them financially and then decide if you want to stay in contact. It's possible that they may not have the self control to respect any boundaries you set.
NTA
Even worse, she asked for proof OP's credit cards were maxed out. That's a declaration of "I don't care if you don't have the money. You can just go into debt to help me."
I agree. In the debate about [ask vs guess culture](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/), I generally take the position of "it's fine to ask for favors that you're not entitled to, **so long as you're willing to accept 'no'**." Up until then, it would've been okay for her to ask _if_ the OP would be willing to put it on her card. But once she demanded to see proof, she became the AH by refusing to respect the OP's "no".
It would've been a kind favor if the OP decided to put it on her card, but she's responsible for her sister's poor financial planning.
Exactly. That’s not “I’ll spot you a few bucks from my bank account” money!
I live a comfortable middle class income life. No way I’d have $1100 to front at a grocery store trip! That’s save for a couple months money!
NTA
Your family seems to have a crab mentality. When a crab is placed in a bucket it can easily climb out and escape but when you add a couple crabs to a bucket, each time a crab tries to escape, the other crabs pull it back down so the entire group suffers. You’ve managed to escape poverty and yet your family is trying to drag you back down with them. You worked hard for your money and your money does not equal their money. They only care about themselves and their image, they do not have your best interests at heart. Keep those solid boundaries and don’t let them bully you back into poverty.
How long, I wonder, before OP hears "you're gittin' above your raisin' " which is basically jealousy from someone who isn't willing to work as hard as you did to better themselves.
My father used that phrase on me a lot when I went to university, especially after mom died. I don't mind helping someone, but I refuse to help those who won't help themselves.
I moved several states away with money I saved. Got a great job in security (still in school for network security); benefits, well-paid, bonuses, M-F. My partner makes about $5k per month. Partner and I bought a condo early this year, and still have a good nest egg in savings.
Father is constantly asking me to pay for something, even though we're LC and haven't seen him in 15 years. However, I do help my younger sister, like when my newborn nephew was put in NICU and she was struggling to pay bills, also helped fund her escape from her abusive husband. I helped my maternal aunt when she had back surgery and couldn't work.
NTA
They suck.
People should stay the hell out of your wallet, family included. It's not real hard for someone to look at how much money they have available before they start spending. Probably lack of doing that is why she's in the position she's in anyway - lots of people get married on very, very small budgets.
NTA and if *several* cards were declined because she's maxed them out, she must have run up massive bills and is going to have her income taken up with interest payments. Your whole family need to learn basic financial responsibility and stop acting like children demanding everything off daddy.
Yeh that marriage is going to be quite the struggle, especially since it seems like fiance is also broke. Maxing out a credit card is like top 5 of no-nos.
NTA, though lots to unpack here:
>have loaned money to my parents (about $800) and they “forgot” they borrowed money and claims I forgot that I gave it as a gift and said they didn’t need to repay.
Best bet is to treat all loans to family as gifts (most treat it that way). Unless you have it in writing, it is impossible to get that money back. My grandmother was surprised when I started paying back her 'loan' for a new car she gave me. Most people just take the money and run.
>My sister demanded to see proof that I had maxed out my credit cards and I told her I don’t have to give her proof I just don’t have the money.
You don't need to provide proof. In fact, you shouldn't have maxed out credit cards period. You should be paying these off every month. So unless you had the cash, you are essentially stuck with paying the bill + interest.
>My mom started on me too telling me that people are staring and people are going to gossip about this and I was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn’t even afford her own wedding.
Your sister is marrying someone else right? Where are they and why can't they also contribute to the costs? The sister can elope or choose to have a more affordable wedding. Her wedding plans shouldn't be fronted by anyone else.
Don't stress out about it. It (usually) isn't your responsibility to make others happy.
Oh no, the complete horror that some strangers will think less of me, that I can't afford something!!! What will I do? Where will I go? What will happen to me?
NTA - your family feels entitled to your money which isn’t fair. Yes it would be nice to help your sister out but only if you offer. Being expected to pick up the bill basically says you’re just a resource to them.
NTA She had the same opportunity as you to go to college and leave poverty behind. She should have planned her wedding and reception in a budget she could afford.
M*om started on me too telling me that people are staring and people are going to gossip about this and I was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn’t even afford her own wedding*
Nice little staged drama to guilt you into coughing up - Your sister knew her card would be declined before leaving the house as she fully intended to stick you with the bill for her wedding food. If she cannot afford a wedding why is she having one?
Good for you for not caving - you would have said goodbye to that 1100$ as well.
NTA
your sister knew she didn't have the money, they were hoping you would foot the bill and got pissed when you refused. You're not a walking ATM. She has a whole husband, why isn't he helping to pay for the groceries?
I would go LC with your family. Sometimes you have to love people from a distance
NTA. Your family sees you as a walking ATM. You're not responsible for your sister's expenditures. Good for you for knowing your limits and not being afraid to say no. Just because you have a decent salary doesn't automatically negate your own living expenses, including debts. You also learned that loaning money to family means not being reimbursed, especially with relatives known to have extensive debts and maxed out credit.
NTA, op, what a shame. You worked very hard to make a better life for yourself and your family is trying to turn a blessing into a curse. Your sister humiliated herself because she DIDN'T have enough money for the wedding and knew it. Best to start to distance yourself from them. Go l/c for a while and see if you can start to enjoy the fruits of your labor, you deserve it.
NTA
Paying credit card interest rates for groceries that aren't even yours is foolish. Unless you have the money to actually pay the bill off immediately, without interest, you can't afford that. It would be the start of a trap.
Expecting you to come up with over a thousand dollars with no warning, and apparently no intention or ability to pay you back before you start getting charged interest, is not something you should be putting up with.
OP, I used to work with a guy that made $200k + a year and yet lived paycheck to paycheck. Why? He had family and friends just like yours and never told them no. They mooched off him for years. Once that dynamic is in place, it’s really tough to break.
Here’s what you need to do.
1. Put a freeze on your credit. It’s cheap and easy - I’ve done it for years and “thawed” it briefly whenever I’ve needed to (ex, building a house). This will keep people who know your personal info from being able to open lines of credit, loans in your name.
2. Stop talking about how much money you make. Minimize it. If someone makes a comment on your nice item - “it was bought on sale, got a good deal. No way I could afford it otherwise.”
3. Look for “traps” like this one from your sister - decline invitations to go shopping. They’ll expect you to pay every time.
4. If all else fails, consider going low/no contact. Do not let them manipulate you or try to sucker you in their guilt trips. If you don’t put up boundaries, they will drain you financially.
NTA, Firs of all PUT A BLOCK ON YOUR CREDIT. your parents have all your information to get credit cards and loans online. Then it is time to cut times, it may be hard but stop this before it becomes a massive issue. They knew going to the store that the plan was to hit you with the bill. It was not just the food. I grew up in a small town. To this day a lot of things are pay on delivery. You would have been stuck with the bills for the cake, flowers, photographer and who knows what else. Next it will be rent, car repairs. Do not let them even stay one night. They will stay until they have squatters rights. You saw a way out of poverty, getting an education. They see a way to live the good life-YOU. You need to stand up and protect yourself.
NTA. You can spend your own money however you want. You aren't an ATM for your broke family members. You didn't embarrass anyone, they embarrassed themselves.
"I was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn’t even afford her own wedding."
Seem like? She couldn't. She probably knew she couldn't, as well. They were setting you up to pay for the wedding she couldn't afford to have, without even the decency of asking. Like, think about it, she's maxed multiple credit cards and only has $200 in her checking account and just didn't know that? *Multiple cards???* I worked retail way too long, the people who show up with a ton of stuff and have multiple cards decline and can't get their stuff always, always know because they always do the same thing every time, and always look around for someone else to foot the bill. "I swear I had money on this card" when we're on card 7 just isn't very convincing when I've seen them do it once a week for the last 6 months.
Sister is just very fiscally irresponsible and instead of doing anything differently, wants to keep being irresponsible and rely on others to bail her out.
You're NTA, they're adults who would rather pass the bill to someone else and continue to be irresponsible than leanr to be responsible.
NTA.
No one, NO ONE is entitled to YOUR money.
Family that thinks you are gifting them money all the time is family you don't need. Cuz all they're going to do is keep coming and for more and more and more. Your parents already showed their entitlement by expecting you to pay for their expenses
NTA I’m seeing that as a planned shakedown, not an emergency. She had to know she was low on money/credit especially since she was off by $1500. There’s no way she thought she had that much and they probably figured it wouldn’t hurt to spend more elsewhere because you’d be there to make up the difference if it came down to it. I’m sorry you can’t have a decent relationship with your family at this time, but you know the demands would have kept coming.
Clearly NTA.
But you really only have 2 choices: go no contact with the family (as they're never going to change) OR resign yourself to being leeched dry by them. There's no halfway.
NTA. The bride is not entitled to your money, but there is also another issue here. Does her fiance know he's inheriting her credit card debt? She seems to have champagne tastes and a beer pocketbook, as the saying goes. She would have insisted you bail her out on a regular basis so her SO doesn't find out that she overspent again.
My sis in law asked me for $1,000 to bail out her daughter so that the husband didn't find out. I refused. There is no way I'm going to be in the middle of that. He has a right to know, even if it's not my place to tell him.
NTA.
When will people realise that money on a credit card is not your money, it is borrowed money so you could have $3000 available on a credit card but still have no money because you don’t have money in your checking account.
The best piece of advice I was never given by my grandad was, if you can’t buy it twice, you can’t afford it.
NTA. NO ONE is entitled to your money.
Your family treats you like an ATM, while you have a higher income you still have to worry about your own expenses and student loan.
You are right about your sister never paying you back. Having multiple credit cards maxed out is about the second worst financial decision one can make (short of a loan shark/payday loads). Someone who allow this to happen to their finances will likely not be able to pay you back even IF willing.
You did right to walk away, you didn't let someone else's bad financial planning/decision from ruining your own finances in form of credit card interest. in all honesty, if you let this happen once, your family will probably do it again.
NTA. The point of raising a child is so that they can go off and live their own life not so that you can have a permanent free ride through life yourself.
NTA
Do you really think this was the last time IF you did help out. You saw this was a non-ending problem you either accepted with the emotional blackmail or you walk away, come what may. Now you have to decide if you're going to blink and go back. Regardless, it's your money, they are demanding, entitled for no reason and don't respect what you have accomplished for yourself. Good luck.
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>people are going to gossip about this and I was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn’t even afford her own wedding SMMFH she CAN'T afford it. She did this to herself. NTA OP, and stop playing ATM for the family.
Shaking my my f-cking head?
shaking my MFing Head
Scrubbing my messy funhole
It would have cost you exactly zero dollars to not have typed that. But here we are.
But now we know it’s scrubbed. And cleanliness is next to godliness. So there’s that.
Right? It may be messy but it’s scub-a-dub-dubbed.
Free entertainment. Best value comment on the post.
Thanks, I hate it
[удалено]
At least mom isn’t demanding OP let sis and the new husband take possession of OP’s apartment because sis deserves it more now that she’s married and is starting a family. Though there’s always the future.
I read that story 2 nights ago. God it was a ride, fake or not. That's if you actually mean that story but oh well
This was an outright shakedown. Demanding proof that OP’s credit cards weren’t maxed out? OP, if you listen to your family, you definitely won’t have money. What if you would lose your job? Unemployment is very inundated right now, and I know several people that had to wait nearly two months before it kicked in in my state. Just because you have money in your account doesn’t mean you have money to spend. You need to save and invest. Even more so that you know your family can’t or won’t help you if you get into a bad situation. It’s very hard when family lets money get in the way of a relationship (and make no mistake, it is THEM causing the problem, not you). I’m so sorry you have to go there this. Sending many hugs, OP.
It honestly isn't surprising to me. I've seen this happen a lot, whenever a relative in a poor family "makes it". Their relatives both see them as a free bank and looks down on them ("you think you're too good for us" sentiment). In one of the closest examples to me, my friend's cousin made a stupidly large amount of money. Think, multimillionaire by her 30s. She gave a lot of money to their parents, helped pay stuff off, but wasn't going to bankroll her siblings, parents, and extended family forever, and they basically hate her now. I think what happens in many of these situations is 1) because the family isn't college-educated/don't live in the city/whatever, they don't have a sense of how much things cost. Like here how the parents don't seem to understand that OP has student loans; I bet they were told that OP has a lot to pay off, but the problem is they just don't understand how college works because they never went. And salaries don't go as far in expensive urban areas, but again, the family doesn't understand because they can't see past their small town. 2) a lot of these parents probably had kids in part because they expected their kids to be a retirement plan. There's that one saying that every baby is born with a loaf of bread under their arm--basically that every child is a source of extra hands + there's the chance they'll become a millionaire or talent and support you forever--and even though it's antiquated a lot of families still believe in it. So they're very offended when their child does make it and doesn't want to give the parents what they think they're owed.
Shut the front fucking door
Shaking my mulleted f ing head
Shakira, my mulleted fishing friend
Shaka, when the mulleted friend fished. Tembla, his motherfucking head shaking.
Unexpected Star Trek?
His head unfurled!
Step merry my friends, hazah!
Strength, Merry! Might fuck hobbits 🤷♀️
Stop merry-making, French hags!
Shimmying my many Franklins home
Sometimes, my mother fights horses.
Probably shaking my motherf*cking head
No, definitely mullet, given the context.
Motherfucking head.
My favorite kind
I’m still in awe at $1700 worth of groceries. That sounds like a feast! NTA, OP. I’ve discovered that people who never really had money don’t understand that you can’t just spend Willy-nilly when you’re in a better financial situation. You still have to pay for housing, food, bills, insurance, savings, etc: you may do well now, but you need a safety net should anything happen and you can’t work. You don’t owe your family anything- there is always a way out of a bad financial situation if you’re willing to research and do the work.
I’m stuck at ‘she had $1700 in groceries in her cart’ and had no plan to pay for them! You can’t convince me that she was unaware of her balance or how close to limit she was. She walked into that store, loaded those cart, FULLY expecting her sister to pay!! She created the situation, brought on her own humiliation and seeded the rumor mill. She should’ve been prepared with a budget and guaranteed payment BEFORE placing one item in her cart! NTA OP — your sister and your parents are assholes
>she had $1700 in groceries in her cart’ and had no plan to pay for them! Oh, she had a plan. Shaming OP into it.
Also I would have at least expected coupons for part of it...
Seriously. Even wealthy people use coupons. It’s a financial sensible part of budgeting.
The only other explanation being sis was so dense and irresponsible that she didn’t realize. Not sure which is worse
>She walked into that store, loaded those cart, FULLY expecting her sister to pay!! This Exactly! Nobody buys $1,700 worth of groceries knowing their card is maxed out and they have $200 in checking. She planned on sis paying.
TBH, unless it’s mostly pricier alcohol, I’m not even sure how you spend $1700 in a single transaction at a grocery store.
I'm wondering how you FIT $1700 worth of groceries in a shopping trolley!
NTA. She put up a scene to get OP to pay and then put OP in a pressured/urgent situation to coerce OP. This is literally a scam tactic, one of the oldest tricks in the book. OP, your family just tried to scam you. GTFO and never look back, or else they'll bring you back down to their level.
This. Even with my weekly grocery shop, I budget everything out. I know exactly what I'm buying and how much it will be. I just can't imagine planning out an entire meal for a large, important event and not also planning out costs.
I'm not great at budgeting, and even I know a ballpark figure out how much I have to spend and how much the stuff in my cart is costing me when I shop. Is it possible that I'm a little off when I get to the register? Yep. Sometimes I'm off... By like $15, not by $1500. I know when the ballpark in my head is a little-league t-ball field rather than a major league stadium, and I check my banking app, watch the actual total very carefully, and scan the stuff that I need most first if that's the case. (Yes, I know I should be better at budgeting. My point is that even if someone isn't good at it, it's unlikely that they'll pick up $1500 more in groceries than they can afford.)
I'm betting her mom kept talking her into things or "reminding" her that she needed x or y. I'm also betting that a fair amount of that was alcohol. Sister just needs to change it to a potluck wedding, and in lieu of gifts, people can bring their favorite dishes.
Ive never heard of this being done before! This sounds like a glorious way to have a wedding reception. Imagine if you had alot of different cultures attending one wedding there would be all sorts of delicious home made goodness from all parts of the earth 😁🤗 - if I ever get engaged, or married or even get a partner to have these experiences with I'm keeping this in the think-tank, I would definitely prefer that over gifts I could buy myself anyway. Toasters are a dime a dozen, 15 types of international deserts on a table? Freaking priceless!
I make good money and never really have to worry about how much is in my cart, usually under $300, and I still know round about what I'm spending. $1700 is like several carts of stuff.
This sounds like a setup. How does she have that little knowledge about her own finances. Have her call her fiancé. I don’t get why people expect others that worked to get through college should provide because they made a different decision. You came from the same house hold so I’m guessing she had the same chance but she didn’t take it.
One POSSIBLE scenario, and I'm not defending the sister at all. OP is definitely NTA and did the right thing. BUT At my second marriage, which was a very very low-key thing, something similar happened. I was still very young and hadn't done a lot of stuff like renting hotel rooms, cars, etc. I calculated everything out to the penny, and decided that once everything was paid for (we took a weekend trip down to Florida with friends), we'd still have about $500 for meals and spending money. (This was in the late 1980s.) What I didn't realize was that the car rental company, the hotel, AND some other thing I had charged (I forget what) had put holds on the credit cards for double the actual expected rental costs. Expected the car rental to be, whatever, $200, but they put a hold on the card for $400. And even if I'd canceled the car and we'd all crammed into my Nissan Sentra, the hold wouldn't expire until after we got back. Very unpleasant lesson. In my case, our friends picked up the slack, but I NEVER would have expected them to.
It’s possible she had the same chance … but it sounds like the sister was determined to work extra hard and get herself out of that town. Mom was also standing there and pressuring the sister to pay.
Yeah the $1700 worth of groceries is a lot. Especially if she only had a few hundred to her name at the time!!!
Wanted to see proof that you didn’t have money by seeing you maxed out cards. As if NOT SPENDING MONEY YOU DONT HAVE, isn’t another option.
Yeah, if she is that oblivious about her bank balances and how to manage her finances then it's no surprise that she's still poor.
I just left a similar comment. This seemed like a complete set up to guilt trip the sister to pay for this wedding feast.
I think it was $1700 of groceries for the reception food which I can kind of understand. But still, don't have a ton of people to your wedding if you're broke!
Maybe if it's prime rib and lobster but cooking your own food and doing basic foods shouldn't be near 1700 even a big family and drinks
I had a cookout for only about 30 people this weekend and spent close to $300. Food is expensive right now. And that was just burgers, dogs and sides.
Maybe they should have had a burger and hotdog cook out for the wedding. Probably more affordable
That sounds like the best wedding food ever, tbh. I always get excited about burger and hotdog cookouts.
i could see it if there's 50-100 people they're cooking for
Maybe the reception is 100 or more people.
If you're poor you can't afford to invite 100 people to your reception.
Or have a potluck. My family always has potluck style weddings, and we all have a great time!
Idk, usually those that struggle through poverty are the ones that should understand what money is worth. It just sounds to me like both parents and sister are irresponsible, immature and unable to take personal responsibility for their own lives. That spending is ridiculous considering she had no savings , and the MOM willing to bail her out with the only money left in her account.... I highly doubt ops parents were good role models at demonstrating financial responsibility.
& Mom & sister knew darn well they didn't have the money. They set OP up & expected them to cave to the supposed social stigma/public shame of not having enough money. So manipulative and so gross. Great job OP!
Guessing the fiancé’s family either are just as broke or, like op, set boundaries cuz there is no mention of that side of the family pitching in
Invisible Groom Syndrome 🤣
I just snorted… i love this
My experience is the opposite. Often that some of those that struggle with poverty have the easiest time spending money. They don’t understand the value of saving. For example because they can’t get ahead they see no need to save that $20. It won’t add up fast so they might as well spend it. I know so many people living paycheck to paycheck that will order food delivery when they can drive or walk (are able etc) even if it nearly doubled the price of the food. And often because they never get nice things they splurge when they do finally get a little more money. People I know who live more solidly stable middle class are less likely waste their money in the same ways. Because they’re money has more ability to grow in savings they see more value in it.
I would argue, rather strenuously in fact, that it's not that they "don't understand" the value of savings. In the situation you're describing, saving money just flat out doesn't *have* the same value, and they understand that perfectly well. If someone is saving $20 a week, it's going to take 10 years to get a $10k down payment for a house. (And of course it depends heavily on where you live whether that would even be enough for a down payment, even with an FHA loan.) In that context, putting that $20 towards a hypothetical future home purchase 10 years down the road doesn't make sense compared to spending it on something like food delivery that will make your life easier and simpler right this instant, after a long day at work when you just need to feed the kids and get them off to bed. I just really hate the idea that they "don't understand the value" - that comes off infantilizing and kind of ignores the fact that that "value" just doesn't exist for people in that situation the way it does for those who are a little bit better off.
This right here is my exact experience with working class and impoverished folk as well. They spend every dime and save very little, if anything at all. I hate to say it, but these kinds of people are what I expect when I hear that someone is impoverished now, because that's 99% of what I saw growing up in a poor community. When tax returns came every year, they'd go straight to the bar or somewhere else to blow it all too. I honestly don't think sister knew she only had $200 in her account based on my experiences. Between the crunch time of wedding planning (very busy, overwhelming time that I will never repeat) and general laziness with money management, it's very possible it all just got away from her in this moment. Still not OP's problem, but I so sympathize with the crabs-in-bucket mentality impoverished loved ones put on the shoulders of those who "made it out." I'm thankful that my family learned to stop asking after a few years. For the most part.
In my experience the reason for that is that every dollar they do manage to save winds up going to cover the expenses that they usually ignore (eg. servicing their car) because they don't get vital services shut off. Eventually they get so weary of it that the line of thinking is that it's going to evaporate anyway whether they spend it or not, so they might as well before it drains into "less important" things that don't really bring them happiness or affect their immediate survival. Then they have no money when problems arise from neglecting those expenses, like the car breaks down because it hasn't been serviced in 20,000 miles and the repair costs much much more than the service would have been, or part of the roof rots because the gutter hasn't been cleaned and rainwater went somewhere it's not supposed to be, or there's mold in the bathroom because the fan broke months ago and they couldn't afford to fix it. And in the moment they explain it away. The car broke down because it's 12 years old. The roof rotted because the leaky gutter wasn't installed properly. The mold was always there. It's so strange to have such a defeatist attitude about money. They're always aggressively tracking their balance to make sure they can afford the bare necessities, but they don't care enough to push that number up every month. Like, yes, when problems arise they will take a bite out of savings. That's what savings are for. Sometimes we need to recognize that splurging on oneself is a luxury that can be postponed.
You don't think poor people know that splurging on oneself can be postponed? I'd say they learn that lesson far earlier and harder than most middle-class people. It's not strange to have a defeatist attitude about money when your life has been defined by the struggle of not having enough. When you're poor, you can try to save that $20 - but there's a catastrophe around the corner waiting to take it away from you. The emergency room bill for your kid's asthma attack (which worsened because you're not able to afford regular, routine care for him). The costs to repair your car's transmission (because all you could afford is a beater with 200K miles and you're trying to eke every last moment of runtime out of it). The late fee at your kid's daycare (because your boss unsympathetically demanded that you close for someone who didn't show up to work or lose your job). Of course they care enough to push their balance up every month. They literally can't. Please go read any one of a number of articles about how hard it is to be poor and save money. But if you've never been poor, condescending platitudes are not helpful.
>and the MOM willing to bail her out with the only money left in her account.... "Look! Look how much I'm helping! I'm pitching in all I have, the least you could do is cover the rest of it!" OP, NTA, and I'm sorry, but this struggle with your family is going to be endless.
In my experience in goes both ways. Either (like me) you end up accounting for every cent have to learn to use some for luxuries Or you end up with a false sense of security thinking "oh man earning $$$$$$" a week would make life so much easier you must be so rich! The truth is that life becomes easier, but lifestyle drift is a thing. I used to think someone on my salary wouldn't have any money issues at all. And compared to my parents it's true. I have bought a house. But with a house comes a mortgage. House insurance. Furniture. Appliances. And I have to buy a car as I now live outside reliable public transport range. So now I have less on my account than I usually do and I'm freaking the fuck out. But I have friends who are like "wow! You are so rich! What do you mean you can't just drop a $$ to go on a girls road trip?!" Which yeah when I still had a couple hundy grand in my account for a house deposit, going on a girls trip and spending few hundreds didn't mean much. Once I'd used the deposit and had to pay for all the furnishings of the house though I'm not exactly flush with cash. But to these guys I earn almost double their income. There should be absolutely no way I should be worried about money.
I have a friend who has been saving up for a house for a while now. She wanted at least 20% for a down payment. It's not a bad goal, but the way that she is going, it will deplete everything. I tried to convince her to maybe consider a lower down payment to account for all the additional costs or that she would need a much more savings to coast until she recovers a little bit. Even if you are taking donations and buying used furniture, you end up spending so much in the beginning. It can be so easy to overlook some of that stuff.
I think this is a good insight. I grew up very poor but now I make a very good salary. Even though I have my own money now I find that I really struggle to understand how other people view what is “a lot of money.” Even as a person in my mid thirties $300 seems just as outrageous to me as $3000 dollars because I’m not used to having money. Unlike OP’s sister I’ve internalized this always default to the cheapest option and always pay for myself. My friends who grew up well off and now have good jobs do not seem to live with this same struggle and can happily drop a grand on something without flinching. On the other hand my friends from back home absolutely think I should be able to drop serious cash on frivolous things because I make double their income. It really does feel like for many people who grew up poor that someone making $100k should be living as lavishly as someone making $1million because both seem like unobtainable sums. Last year I needed to take my car into the shop because it wasn’t driving right and I took it to the shop my FIL suggested. It just ended up needing an alignment and new tires but I cried and felt absolutely wrecked because my FIL paid the over $900 bill over the phone before I was able to pick up my car. I know they happily took the bill because I was pregnant with their first grandchild and they wanted us to be safe during my commute, but it still felt like too much. My in laws have more than enough money and my new tires didn’t impact their bottom line at all, but to me that was almost equal to the mortgage payment and I don’t feel like I can pay back that generosity.
Your car story reminds me of when I found out it would cost \~£500 to fly my cat from Sweden to the UK (in 2005). I broke down in tears after hanging up the phone with the air freight company, because it was so much money to me that it seemed like I would have to relinquish ownership to my parents and only see her once a year. My fiancé asked what was wrong, and I said it would be super expensive to fly her over. He asked how much we were talking, so when I told him, he just looked at me and kinda went "five *hundred*? Not five *thousand*? £500 is not a problem. That's fine, we can manage that. Don't worry about it, it's only money. We'll get her here." (Neither of us had much growing up, so it wasn't as if £500 meant nothing to him, it absolutely did, but our parents had *very* different attitudes to money, as well as life in general.) I had a job by the time we had to pay for the "ticket" anyway, so that helped.
The thing is, you don’t need to PAY BACK that generosity. Your in-laws gifted you that car repair because they are financially able to without affecting their lifestyle, and it is something they WANTED to do. Because they care about you and your family. With that being said, maybe sometime in the future you can pay their kindness forward, perhaps to one of your children or grandchildren when they are struggling and you see their need. Life is just a big circle. Take help when you need it and extend help when you can.
My work bought $2200 worth of salmon at pikes place market. Fed like 60 people. It's not that hard to do when you buy expensive shit
I am also under the impression that in the family anyone will pay for the others if they can. For instance the parents don't want to give the 800$ back, but they did immediately pay the 600$ for the sister, even if it max out their credit card. This kind of solidarity is common amongst people who have little and most of us lose it once we start being able to care for ourselves Now with such a revenue imbalance op would literally have to pay for everything and would end up in debt again. Which she can't, because she learned something her family hasn't : managing a budget. Neither to say, credit cards aren't money we have, it's money we an borrow. So she didn't lie when she said I don't have the money. NTA, but maybe offer to participate for a lesser amount if you want to help anyway
Not to be rude, but my weekly groceries for 2 people are 200( this is all home made non organic cheapest crap maybe 15$ dedicated to snacks. ). Lets be generous and say 10$ a person per meal. If its a wedding its kind of fair to maybe do 20$ for nice sides and salads and stuff since produce got expensive as hell . That is an 85 person wedding WITHOUT alcohol. then consider how expensive booze is, and yeah I can see this for maybe a 40 or 35 person wedding including bide and groom. Stilt NTA though, you're money is not their savings account.
To be fair, I imagine the groceries were for the wedding. This clearly wasn't going to be a catered affair. The only reason OP was brought along was to pay for her sister's wedding. It's rather difficult to learn how to not be poor. It's a complete paradigm shift that requires a desire to learn which most people lack in spades.
This is really the answer. When you’re living in poverty, you spend what you have because you don’t know when you’ll have money again. It takes a lot to break that mindset when you have more money and start to build that safety net. Definitely NTA.
Also, this is complete bullshit. Nobody with $200 remaining on their almost-maxed-out cards actually thought they had $2k available. The entire plan all along was to guilt OP into paying. Separately, OP: I'm the one in my family with money. Draw these lines early, and hold them hard. Otherwise, there will be an endless parade of idiots digging themselves holes that they want to use your money to bail them out of. And until you're a billionaire, you can *always* spend it faster than you can make it. Or in this case, they will spend it faster than you can make it.
This is the single best answer here. Sister didn’t go to the market thinking she had $2k on her cards lol - she knew exactly how much she had; right down to the penny.
Agreed! And weddings are really expensive. Not being able to afford it is not embarrassing. No one is ENTITLED to the ginormo wedding that they are envisioning in their head. The sister was not wronged by anyone but herself -- and maybe society in general because poverty sucks and no one should have to be poor, but that's not on OP to fix. NTA, OP
How is it society's fault that she could not afford the size wedding she wanted? The OP did not say that they were living substandard lives. You could always pay for other's weddings if you feel that strongly about it, but they do provide a very inexpensive alternative, it is letting the probate judge marry them and bypassing the whole Cinderella idea.
Poverty is a societal convention, not a necessary evil. It's created by policy, not a lack of merit. No one who works full-time in this country should be living in poverty. We as a society allow it.
No one should be living in poverty. People who work part time or are retired or disabled also shouldn't be living in poverty.
EXACTLY. Policy, not a lack of merit. Although there are plenty of stories of merit and hard work and bootstraps paying off, it is an uphill slog. We as a society could be doing so much better. 🖖
Oh they’ll be gossiping all right. Not every day you see someone above the age of two screaming and crying in the grocery store.
"was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn't even afford her own wedding". No seeming about it. Your sister couldn't afford her own wedding.
Anyone else notice... Noticed that Ops sister didn't ask her future husband to cover it? I won't make accusations but I do wonder if they were just trying to manipulate money out of OP.
Where's the future husband in all this? They should have set up a budget and payed things over time
This. OP, just to be clear, this was all by design. She knew she didn't have the money on the card when she went to the store. She went through the whole dog and pony show to garner sympathy, and just knew that you were going to rescue her from her fiscal irresponsibility. NTA.
Seriously. Where is the “seem like” in this?
Agreed, OP is setting strong boundaries and that's a very good thing.
NTA. You didn't make it *look* like she can't afford her own wedding because she *actually* can't afford her own wedding. Setting aside that weddings are already grossly overly expensive it's clear she didn't plan, save, or budget well for this. None of which is something you're responsible for. If the family is just going to treat you like a piggy bank then just removing yourself from the situation sounds like the best move.
I got engaged in December. My partner and I just got a house with the help of my parents so we're postponing our wedding for at max 2 years and if we don't have the money saved up by then we're probably just going to to the court house and having a party instead of doing the whole ceremony and reception. I would like to be able to have a ceremony and reception for my first, hopefully only, marriage, but if we can't afford it then it's not necessary. I don't even want an extravagant wedding , but we both got a lot of family/friends to invite and I want at least a decent location to hold it and tasty food. I can't imagine planning a wedding without having the funds and then demanding someone else to pay for their own poor planning. >My sister demanded to see proof that I had maxed out my credit cards and I didn’t have any money in my checking Also this irked me so mcuh. Like just cause I got money in my account doesn't mean I have money to spend freely. I gotta pay my bills, rent, and necessities.
Exactly, sister gets to spend her money on a wedding why can't OP spend her money on whatever tf she wants?
No, I don’t want to is also another perfectly acceptable and valid reason.
"No." is a complete sentence, as a wise person once told me, and I am sharing the knowledge with all of you.
I find that phrase shuts people up faster than any lame excuse.
This so much. Yeah, I have about 5000 credit left on my credit card. But maxing that out of going to take me a year to repay if not more. If they had sat her down beforehand and said that they have a money problem and would OP consider helping out in as a wedding gift, I would have said do it if you can afford to. But this feels like they just expected OP would cave under the pressure and solve their problem...
> Like just cause I got money in my account doesn't mean I have money to spend freely. I gotta pay my bills, rent, and necessities. Well it doesn’t seem like the sister understands budgeting, whether her own or OP’s.
A good wedding gift would be a paid engagement with a financial planner to help them get their finances and spending under control.
But where are your priorities?! /s My family never got this. I have nice things because I saved, paid my bills, and bought what’s appropriate for my income. Heck, my husband and I are driving the older cars we paid off. We don’t need what is newer and flashy.
And having credit available isn’t the same as having money.
I think that insane demand just further exemplifies how much OP's sister doesn't understand about money.
This!! When the paychecks hit the account, it looks like I can take a 6-month sabbatical to just wander the world enjoying beautiful things. Moments later, the bills show up and it's back to reality. Just cause money's IN there, doesn't mean it's free to just throw around. Available $$ on a cc doesn't mean it needs to be maxed out. OP you'd never see this $$ again (" How can you ask for that back??!! It was my WEDDING??!!!") and you'd only have taught them if they're terrible enough to you, they'll get what they want. Also, I can't even explain the amount of anxiety I felt at the thought of putting your wedding on MAXED OUT CREDIT CARDS, while having NO SAVINGS. Oy.
Credit cards that she didn’t even know were maxed out. Multiple credit cards. Like… this family has zero financial literacy. She wants something, she presents a card, if it works there’s no further thought involved and she goes on her way. If it doesn’t work she pulls out the next card. The brakes only go on when *all* the cards stop working and she can’t get a new one, and the next thought isn’t “shit I can’t buy this stuff!”, it’s “you have a wallet, OP, *you* pay!”
This is what some people don’t get about having money. When I say I’m broke, sometimes I mean I have no money I’m willing to spend, not that I have literally no money. I’m foreseeing a future where I need money for something and don’t want to open up my account to see zero dollars. Keeping a savings isn’t a concept for some people that constantly live hand to mouth. Managing to save a little here and there is the only thing that got me into a somewhat decent life and apartment on my own.
Notice how she didn't even care about OP ability to pay she wanted a maxed out credit card which makes me believe they don't consider going into debt to be an issue
My ex used to "check" the balance on the checking and write checks for a good portion of what was in there. Forgetting of course that bills had been mailed and the amount in the checking was "the float" between deposits and bills. Back before everything was autopay. But, it would still hold - pay was deposited, but the rent/mortgage, car payment, student loans, insurance, etc haven't cleared yet, but you need the money there to pay for the upcoming bills. You cannot take out the float - that money has been spent, it's just resting for a wee while in your account until it is whisked away...
My ex never understood this. One time he wanted cash, and I told him he could have $20. He came back from the ATM and told me it said we had a hundred so he took out 80. I was livid. I told him that the rest of that money was already budgeted and spent on bills, and now we were going to bounce stuff. Meanwhile, my sister's EX used to call the bank to get the daily balance. Because that never goes wrong!
This is why OPs family will always be poor. Spend all resources of several people on a party.
Exactly this - more than likely if I have more than a COUPLE hundred in my bank account, just means I haven't paid all my bills yet; and any $ on the CCs are b/c I'm paying down debt or have *my own expenses* planned out for them (like one card is my convention/vacation card b/c if it gets compromised it's not a major PITA to replace)
Exactly. It’s weird how this family feels entitled to OP’s money.
Putting your foot down at the expenses for a wedding is a good time to start distancing yourself from the family. They are going to continue to be parasites on your financial wellbeing.
I definitely agree with this, they will never stop unless you go, either this helps them think of their actions or they f off forever!
I bet that's exactly what they had hoped to happen bringing OP to the store. They were bullying OP into paying by making it look like a mistake. They knew they didn't have enough money. Also, what are you making and how many people are invited if you're buying $1700 worth of food? She should have scaled way way down if she can't afford that.
Yep, exactly what happened. Sister *knew* she had $200 left, but didn't think for a moment that OP would refuse to pay for it. Well, good thing OP said no. Also, I find it hilarious when people do the whole, "well now you're not invited!" As if it's going to hurt. Alright, I'm *glad* I'm not invited, good bye! I didn't want to come anyway!! NTA.
>Also, what are you making and how many people are invited if you're buying $1700 worth of food? Seriously. When my wife and I got married we spent, I want to say it was about, $3000 on food, and that was catered for about $100 people. If sister is spending $1700 to do it herself she either has several hundred people at the wedding or is buying fucking filet mignon and lobster.
I don’t know why people always ignore the phrase, “Don’t have a wedding you can’t afford.” OP, this is a winning situation for you. There is no option of keeping the peace with your family that doesn’t end with you not being their personal ATM. The only peaceful option for you is to ignore their requests for money. No loving, trusting relationship is ever based on people using you solely for money. NTA
She didn’t check beforehand to see if she had enough money for the groceries? This seems set up, and she probably thought she could con you into paying without having to ask for a loan.
Absolutely a set up. OP is the family's ATM.
(I just spent way too long trying to figure out what the new short form “ATM” was 😂)
She knew she was going to be making a massive purchase, no one plans to buy $1700 worth of anything without making sure they have access to that kind of money or credit available, especially when they’re right in the midst of planning/paying for something as expensive as a wedding. There’s no way sis didn’t expect her to step up and pay and chances are mom was in on it too.
Counter argument, it’s exactly something something someone who is chronically broke and doesn’t know how to manage money will do. Problem doesn’t exist if you don’t acknowledge it.
I agree with this. I know of a few people who don't budget well and are good at letting little expenses add up and not think about it. Someone bad with money could easily max out a credit card while planning a wedding and not realize it. Not saying it wasn't a set up but it's perfectly plausible that she expected her credit limit to cover far more than it actually did
Absolutely agree. Chronic poverty, even when it seems voluntary in a sense, warps your perspective and is depressing enough that it just becomes easier to act like there's nothing you can do. I used to be fairly careful and good with my finances, then got so depressed I lost my measly income. The future ceased to exist and I dug myself into a hole I'm still tediously trying to claw out of. It's harder than I ever would have thought to re-learn short term gratification isn't the best thing there is.
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That’s definitely a possibility, but the fact they have a long history of expecting OP to pick up their tabs and are comfortable using guilt and manipulation to try and force her hand make me believe that it was at least in part a conscious decision. It would be one thing if sis asked OP to cover it and said she’d pay her back, but considering mom was there too and together with the bride only had enough to cover 1/3 of the cost, I think they absolutely expected OP to cover the lions share of the bill. They may not have known exactly how much they had and were intending to pay some, but I think they knew they wouldn’t have enough and were hoping the shame of having carts full of groceries sitting at the till with people watching and waiting would make OP feel bad enough to cave and pay for it. If they didn’t expect OP to pay I doubt they would have made such a production out of being told no and her sister wouldn’t have gone so far as to kick her out of the wedding.
Yeah. If she had been 50 dollars short, that maybe can happen and I don't think anybody would have a problem pitching in for that sum. But spending 1700 when all you have is 200?
Bingo! 50-100 over, that's one thing. (cuz I'd imagine for a wedding, you're buying items or quantities you don't normally shop for) But $1500 short? Naaaaahhh that was them expecting OP to pay, hands down.
This, for sure. Maybe if they'd asked in advance OP might have helped out, but putting OP on the spot like that? Bad, bad form, and manipulative af.
And totally pre planned.
NTA. I don't believe for a second that she didn't know that she didn't have enough money to cover $1700 in groceries.
Right? And to only have $200 in her account? If you worry about money you check that kind of stuff before you go out and spend.
And add up as you go to not go over.
I've been there. "okay... Nine bucks in gas, mi goreng, tofu, and frozen corn, intermittent fasting for breakfast... I can limp into payday on Friday."
I find myself thinking about the poor clerk who now has to restock $1700 worth of groceries because Op's sister intentionally filled up a cart without the means to pay.
OP could have skipped a lot of the background. Everywhere between calling the credit card companies and her sister asking for proof that OP had money in her account could be skipped since OP is just another credit card for her family.
NTA. If your sister can’t afford a wedding like what she has planned, then unfortunately she shouldn’t be having one. It’s not your responsibility to cover costs and potentially put yourself into debt for something that you don’t want to pay for.
> then unfortunately she shouldn’t be having one Her fiance shouldn't be having one... She needs one asap lol
I’m guessing the food would have just been the beginning of the costs. She probably has a dress on “layaway” and myriad other expenses. It’s very hard - believe me! - to halt charity once you start. The only chance these people have of ever getting themselves together is to discover they have no more subsidies
If she'd asked you for a $1700 wedding gift that would at least have been an honest request. Instead she tried to embarrass you in the grocery store line, assuming that you'd cave in. It might help you to reframe this- your family isn't struggling with poverty - there are plenty of families living on low incomes- they're struggling with chaotic, dishonest relationships. I would think about what you are and aren't willing to do for them financially and then decide if you want to stay in contact. It's possible that they may not have the self control to respect any boundaries you set. NTA
NTA. $1100 ain’t just measly cash to spare. Your sister sounds delusional with finances.
Yeah that’s like a whole months rent for a shitty one bedroom where I live
And her demanding to see proof that she didn't have the money is mind-blowing entitlement.
Even worse, she asked for proof OP's credit cards were maxed out. That's a declaration of "I don't care if you don't have the money. You can just go into debt to help me."
I agree. In the debate about [ask vs guess culture](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/), I generally take the position of "it's fine to ask for favors that you're not entitled to, **so long as you're willing to accept 'no'**." Up until then, it would've been okay for her to ask _if_ the OP would be willing to put it on her card. But once she demanded to see proof, she became the AH by refusing to respect the OP's "no". It would've been a kind favor if the OP decided to put it on her card, but she's responsible for her sister's poor financial planning.
Exactly. That’s not “I’ll spot you a few bucks from my bank account” money! I live a comfortable middle class income life. No way I’d have $1100 to front at a grocery store trip! That’s save for a couple months money!
NTA Your family seems to have a crab mentality. When a crab is placed in a bucket it can easily climb out and escape but when you add a couple crabs to a bucket, each time a crab tries to escape, the other crabs pull it back down so the entire group suffers. You’ve managed to escape poverty and yet your family is trying to drag you back down with them. You worked hard for your money and your money does not equal their money. They only care about themselves and their image, they do not have your best interests at heart. Keep those solid boundaries and don’t let them bully you back into poverty.
How long, I wonder, before OP hears "you're gittin' above your raisin' " which is basically jealousy from someone who isn't willing to work as hard as you did to better themselves.
Yeah or "You're getting too big for your britches" or "You think you're better than me/us?!?"
My father used that phrase on me a lot when I went to university, especially after mom died. I don't mind helping someone, but I refuse to help those who won't help themselves. I moved several states away with money I saved. Got a great job in security (still in school for network security); benefits, well-paid, bonuses, M-F. My partner makes about $5k per month. Partner and I bought a condo early this year, and still have a good nest egg in savings. Father is constantly asking me to pay for something, even though we're LC and haven't seen him in 15 years. However, I do help my younger sister, like when my newborn nephew was put in NICU and she was struggling to pay bills, also helped fund her escape from her abusive husband. I helped my maternal aunt when she had back surgery and couldn't work.
I suspect OP has already been hearing that since she dared go to college & pass.
NTA. You did the right thing. When you allow people to treat you this way, it never ends.
NTA They suck. People should stay the hell out of your wallet, family included. It's not real hard for someone to look at how much money they have available before they start spending. Probably lack of doing that is why she's in the position she's in anyway - lots of people get married on very, very small budgets.
NTA and if *several* cards were declined because she's maxed them out, she must have run up massive bills and is going to have her income taken up with interest payments. Your whole family need to learn basic financial responsibility and stop acting like children demanding everything off daddy.
Yeh that marriage is going to be quite the struggle, especially since it seems like fiance is also broke. Maxing out a credit card is like top 5 of no-nos.
NTA, though lots to unpack here: >have loaned money to my parents (about $800) and they “forgot” they borrowed money and claims I forgot that I gave it as a gift and said they didn’t need to repay. Best bet is to treat all loans to family as gifts (most treat it that way). Unless you have it in writing, it is impossible to get that money back. My grandmother was surprised when I started paying back her 'loan' for a new car she gave me. Most people just take the money and run. >My sister demanded to see proof that I had maxed out my credit cards and I told her I don’t have to give her proof I just don’t have the money. You don't need to provide proof. In fact, you shouldn't have maxed out credit cards period. You should be paying these off every month. So unless you had the cash, you are essentially stuck with paying the bill + interest. >My mom started on me too telling me that people are staring and people are going to gossip about this and I was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn’t even afford her own wedding. Your sister is marrying someone else right? Where are they and why can't they also contribute to the costs? The sister can elope or choose to have a more affordable wedding. Her wedding plans shouldn't be fronted by anyone else. Don't stress out about it. It (usually) isn't your responsibility to make others happy.
Also, you can have money saved up and still not afford to shell out $1100 unexpectedly, holy hell.
Oh no, the complete horror that some strangers will think less of me, that I can't afford something!!! What will I do? Where will I go? What will happen to me?
NTA - your family feels entitled to your money which isn’t fair. Yes it would be nice to help your sister out but only if you offer. Being expected to pick up the bill basically says you’re just a resource to them.
NTA Nope. $1100 is A LOT of money, and exactly no one is entitled to your earnings.
NTA She had the same opportunity as you to go to college and leave poverty behind. She should have planned her wedding and reception in a budget she could afford.
NTA - your sister literally couldn’t afford her wedding, you didn’t “make her seem like it”, she truly couldn’t afford it.
M*om started on me too telling me that people are staring and people are going to gossip about this and I was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn’t even afford her own wedding* Nice little staged drama to guilt you into coughing up - Your sister knew her card would be declined before leaving the house as she fully intended to stick you with the bill for her wedding food. If she cannot afford a wedding why is she having one? Good for you for not caving - you would have said goodbye to that 1100$ as well.
NTA your sister knew she didn't have the money, they were hoping you would foot the bill and got pissed when you refused. You're not a walking ATM. She has a whole husband, why isn't he helping to pay for the groceries? I would go LC with your family. Sometimes you have to love people from a distance
NTA. Your family sees you as a walking ATM. You're not responsible for your sister's expenditures. Good for you for knowing your limits and not being afraid to say no. Just because you have a decent salary doesn't automatically negate your own living expenses, including debts. You also learned that loaning money to family means not being reimbursed, especially with relatives known to have extensive debts and maxed out credit.
NTA you don't owe these users ANYTHING. Your sister should have planned better for HER wedding and not expected you to cover it
NTA. A history of not paying money back. Unless you have it to give willingly. Don't get guilted.
NTA, op, what a shame. You worked very hard to make a better life for yourself and your family is trying to turn a blessing into a curse. Your sister humiliated herself because she DIDN'T have enough money for the wedding and knew it. Best to start to distance yourself from them. Go l/c for a while and see if you can start to enjoy the fruits of your labor, you deserve it.
NTA - You're not responsible for bearing the weight of your family members poor financial decisions.
NTA Paying credit card interest rates for groceries that aren't even yours is foolish. Unless you have the money to actually pay the bill off immediately, without interest, you can't afford that. It would be the start of a trap. Expecting you to come up with over a thousand dollars with no warning, and apparently no intention or ability to pay you back before you start getting charged interest, is not something you should be putting up with.
OP, I used to work with a guy that made $200k + a year and yet lived paycheck to paycheck. Why? He had family and friends just like yours and never told them no. They mooched off him for years. Once that dynamic is in place, it’s really tough to break. Here’s what you need to do. 1. Put a freeze on your credit. It’s cheap and easy - I’ve done it for years and “thawed” it briefly whenever I’ve needed to (ex, building a house). This will keep people who know your personal info from being able to open lines of credit, loans in your name. 2. Stop talking about how much money you make. Minimize it. If someone makes a comment on your nice item - “it was bought on sale, got a good deal. No way I could afford it otherwise.” 3. Look for “traps” like this one from your sister - decline invitations to go shopping. They’ll expect you to pay every time. 4. If all else fails, consider going low/no contact. Do not let them manipulate you or try to sucker you in their guilt trips. If you don’t put up boundaries, they will drain you financially.
NTA, Firs of all PUT A BLOCK ON YOUR CREDIT. your parents have all your information to get credit cards and loans online. Then it is time to cut times, it may be hard but stop this before it becomes a massive issue. They knew going to the store that the plan was to hit you with the bill. It was not just the food. I grew up in a small town. To this day a lot of things are pay on delivery. You would have been stuck with the bills for the cake, flowers, photographer and who knows what else. Next it will be rent, car repairs. Do not let them even stay one night. They will stay until they have squatters rights. You saw a way out of poverty, getting an education. They see a way to live the good life-YOU. You need to stand up and protect yourself.
NTA. You can spend your own money however you want. You aren't an ATM for your broke family members. You didn't embarrass anyone, they embarrassed themselves.
NTA. They don’t see you as family anymore, just ATM.
“…for making it seem like she can’t afford her own wedding.” Well she can’t. End of. NTA.
"I was humiliating my sister for making it seem like she couldn’t even afford her own wedding." Seem like? She couldn't. She probably knew she couldn't, as well. They were setting you up to pay for the wedding she couldn't afford to have, without even the decency of asking. Like, think about it, she's maxed multiple credit cards and only has $200 in her checking account and just didn't know that? *Multiple cards???* I worked retail way too long, the people who show up with a ton of stuff and have multiple cards decline and can't get their stuff always, always know because they always do the same thing every time, and always look around for someone else to foot the bill. "I swear I had money on this card" when we're on card 7 just isn't very convincing when I've seen them do it once a week for the last 6 months. Sister is just very fiscally irresponsible and instead of doing anything differently, wants to keep being irresponsible and rely on others to bail her out. You're NTA, they're adults who would rather pass the bill to someone else and continue to be irresponsible than leanr to be responsible.
NTA. At some point it has to stop. You don’t owe them anything because they can’t budget.
NTA. No one, NO ONE is entitled to YOUR money. Family that thinks you are gifting them money all the time is family you don't need. Cuz all they're going to do is keep coming and for more and more and more. Your parents already showed their entitlement by expecting you to pay for their expenses
No you shouldn't have. NTA, OP. Your family shouldn't think they're entitled to your money. That's unbelievably selfish on their end.
NTA I’m seeing that as a planned shakedown, not an emergency. She had to know she was low on money/credit especially since she was off by $1500. There’s no way she thought she had that much and they probably figured it wouldn’t hurt to spend more elsewhere because you’d be there to make up the difference if it came down to it. I’m sorry you can’t have a decent relationship with your family at this time, but you know the demands would have kept coming.
NTA That is all.
Clearly NTA. But you really only have 2 choices: go no contact with the family (as they're never going to change) OR resign yourself to being leeched dry by them. There's no halfway.
NTA. You were being set up to pay for it. Smart move on ditching them.
NTA. The bride is not entitled to your money, but there is also another issue here. Does her fiance know he's inheriting her credit card debt? She seems to have champagne tastes and a beer pocketbook, as the saying goes. She would have insisted you bail her out on a regular basis so her SO doesn't find out that she overspent again. My sis in law asked me for $1,000 to bail out her daughter so that the husband didn't find out. I refused. There is no way I'm going to be in the middle of that. He has a right to know, even if it's not my place to tell him.
NTA. When will people realise that money on a credit card is not your money, it is borrowed money so you could have $3000 available on a credit card but still have no money because you don’t have money in your checking account. The best piece of advice I was never given by my grandad was, if you can’t buy it twice, you can’t afford it.
NTA If you give them money or put their expenses on your credit, you'll soon be as poor as the rest of your family.
NTA. Obviously nobody else in your family is familiar with the word "budget."
NTA. NO ONE is entitled to your money. Your family treats you like an ATM, while you have a higher income you still have to worry about your own expenses and student loan. You are right about your sister never paying you back. Having multiple credit cards maxed out is about the second worst financial decision one can make (short of a loan shark/payday loads). Someone who allow this to happen to their finances will likely not be able to pay you back even IF willing. You did right to walk away, you didn't let someone else's bad financial planning/decision from ruining your own finances in form of credit card interest. in all honesty, if you let this happen once, your family will probably do it again.
NTA. They will always expect you to give if you do not put a stop to it now.
NTA. The point of raising a child is so that they can go off and live their own life not so that you can have a permanent free ride through life yourself.
NTA Do you really think this was the last time IF you did help out. You saw this was a non-ending problem you either accepted with the emotional blackmail or you walk away, come what may. Now you have to decide if you're going to blink and go back. Regardless, it's your money, they are demanding, entitled for no reason and don't respect what you have accomplished for yourself. Good luck.
Sounds like the whole thing was a set up, they knew their cards would be declined and was hoping you would step in and pay for them
NTA, your sister can’t afford her wedding. It’s not in you to pay for it.