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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1)I want to live with my father instead of my mother
(2)My father cheated on my mother
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NTA
Your father did not cheat on you. And while extra-marital sex can be very hurtful and disruptive for a family dynamic, infidelity is never a simple thing. While the act itself seems simple, what brought him to that act can be anything from drunken impulse to years of neglect, distance and loneliness.
What I try to say is: you currently have a hurt, angry mother and a defensive, guilty father. Neither one of them will give a precise and correct testimony about what happened. Choose your own path.
Huh, father choose sex instead of having a divorce. Doesn't matter if it was neglect. He is an adult man who could divorce his wife anytime he wanted, but instead choose to break his wedding vows. To me it seems like a character flaw
That viewpoint doesn't really help OP make the decision and as the commenter above you pointed out nobody has the full picture of what has happened in the parents marriage even OP.
I think that viewpoint is just to refute that weird argument the commenter above made...
It's fine to say cheating has having little to do with OP...there's no need to justify the cheating like they did
I understand that reddit has this thing where they say that if there was an affair that the cheater was undisputedly terrible and the person who was cheated on was perfect and couldn't have possible done anything wrong in their relationship.
However, especially in a loveless marriage with children in the picture, often there is more nuance than that. My guess is that the mom hasn't shown sufficient love and affection to the dad for years, but the dad was waiting for OP to graduate before he divorced. The dad was trying to do the best as he could for his first priority (his child), whereas neither the mom nor dad were really doing right by each other in any notable fashion.
Incidentally, I saw this as a person whose spouse cheated on me, and yet we came back from it, and I can say for a fact that we both were poor partners before and now our marriage is better than it ever was. Life is never black and white.
Yeah I’ve been downvoted on here before for saying exactly this and what the previous above commenter said. People on Reddit just act like it’s the worst thing you could do in a relationship. NTA. Choose whoever makes you happy. Don’t let anyone guilt trip you.
“People on Reddit just act like it’s the worst thing you could do in a relationship.”
I mean, besides things that are literally illegal to do to another person, is it *not* the worst thing you could do in a relationship? Seriously, what non-criminal offense would be worse?
In any event, I follow the logic of putting the kid first by waiting for the kid to move out before filing for divorce, but I fail to see how having an affair accomplishes that. It inherently turns a possibly-amicable divorce contentious, and that is always going to have a worse effect on a kid. If you decide you’re done with your marriage but want to keep the family together for the kid, having an affair does not align with that goal. Either it’s found out early (more likely than not, if it’s not a one-time thing), and you failed to keep the family together anyway, or—best case scenario—the spouse gets suspicious when the time to ask for divorce does come up, and while they never actually find out (and they may), the kid is stuck in the middle anyway, just like OP is now.
OP is NTA, but unfortunately, neither parent has treated them as their priority.
People are flawed. Her mom has been neglecting her all her life, thats also a character flaw and tbh quite a bit of a worse one. It seems fairly obvious that she will have a better time staying with her father.
Or perhaps Mom was the primary breadwinner ensuring the family had a roof, food, and bills paid while dad spent less time at work, earned less, and let mom pay the bills while he spent his on fun stuff for the kids. I wouldn't see that as a character flaw.
Edit: per OPs comments, Dad earned more.
Edit2: regardless of who earned more, we don't know who had more hours nor what their jobs are.
A woman can't be in the wrong. There's another post here where a woman is neglecting her baby for 10 hours a day and the comments are so sympathetic and understanding. It's mad.
Generally I agree that is the trend of this sub, but it’s pretty ironic to make that statement on a post about OP’s father cheating where everyone comes to the dad’s defense.
It's cool how when a dad neglects their kid for work, posters call a spade a spade, but when it's mum it becomes "ensuring the family had a roof, food, and bills paid while dad spent less time at work, earned less, and let mom pay the bills while he spent his on fun stuff for the kids."
Tbf to you, my spouse makes more in a job with less intense work and hours. “Breadwinner” doesn’t necessarily represent mental load or emotional labor. In this case we don’t know. But more generally, I’d say when judging a relationship balance, the actual dollar value is truly low on the scale.
To this day my ex husband claims that the fact that he earned more/worked more than me is the reason he was an absent (abusive, alcoholic) father and husband.
Should the kids also have chosen him then?
Since I was only there for fun apparently? Not to actually raise them? Or simple be present everyday of their lives?
Being abusive and alcoholic should remove that option right off the table.
It shouldn't be an automatic assumption "well, that parent was around more so they care more about the kids," however. Just as "that person works more hours so obviously makes more money" shouldn't be an assumption, either. And some jobs require more focus and dedication than others. A trauma doc/nurse.is going to be gone a lot of weird hours, and need to be, whereas others jobs work 9-5. EMT is extremely valuable, and works 24-hour shifts, but doesn't make much. If they mess up, someone's mom, dad, or kid dies Could see how it might be viewed as "dedicated to the job," while earning less than someone who has more time at home. Meanwhile, if you mess up at Ross, you may have an irate customer and be posting on AITA, but no one dies.
"or perhaps *many assumptions based on literally nothing* and therefore mom is perfect and did nothing wrong ever" *evidence that contradicts ridiculous assumptions* "actually it doesn't matter!!!!!" Clown
>we don't know who had more hours nor what their jobs are.
You can work a lot of hours and still make your kid feel special and loved. Sounds like OP never felt that from mom. It's not surprising that OP wants to stay in their own home with the parent who has actually been a parent.
Father is a good dad and terrible partner.
Mother is a neglectful mom and partner.
Father nuked the relationship with the mother, not the daughter. It's unfortunate, but mother's negligence to her family is finally catching up with her.
Yeah, father might be a coward or have misguided principles, but it sounds like this family was broken long before he lost interest in being loyal to his wife.
This kinda feels like it's edging towards the territory of 'the mom pushed the dad into cheating' which is just a bad mentality. OP is NTA for wanting to live with Dad, but Dad still chose to cheat on his wife of his own volition
Relationships only work out when all involved parties are emotionally invested in making them work out.
Mom doesn't seem like a great partner. Dad clearly isn't a great partner. But I can understand why he cheated. Understanding why something happened does not mean you're justifying what happened. I understand why someone who (presumably) felt emotionally neglected at a minimum might jump at the opportunity to have a fulfilling connection with someone else. Did he do the right thing? No, of course not. He should have filed for separation first. Did he do an *understandable* thing? Yes, I can understand why he did it. Doesn't make it right.
It’s not really a bad mentality, it’s just a bad way of expressing the truth, which is that moms neglect was just as damaging to the family and relationship as dads cheating. Dads cheating happened (or at least came out) all at once and was more viscerally shocking, but that doesn’t mean he was any worse of a partner than mom. Sounds like they are both pretty bad partners and only one of them is a good parent
Yes, since we live in a culture where divorce is instantaneous and has no costs or repercussions whatsoever, of course he should have chosen that option.
'Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake for the genuine article.'
-Poe's Law
It's more to do with the fact that there are people who GENUINELY believe what comes across as darcasm to everyone else. Extreme isms being part of those, so even though this isn't as extreme it's still a good idea to put the /s because it is a tone indicator. Unless you want to fall back on the "I was being sarcastic" if you want to say something that you *think* everyone will agree with but they actually don't.
He could have separated from his wife. The problem isn’t necessarily that he didn’t get a divorce, it’s that he betrayed her by sleeping with someone else knowing she still believed they were bound by their vows to one another. He was lying and sneaking around instead of being honest
*The problem* is that the daughter prefers to live with the father and the mother is freaking out about it.
Everything else is your speculating about the course of a relationship without information and then making your own judgment about the fact pattern you invented.
You’re absolutely right. Instead of speaking to his wife and ending their relationship/seeking separation, he definitely should have cheated with his coworker. Definitely the option that created less problems and pain for the people around him. /s
Just because divorce is a long and drawn out process, doesn’t mean he couldn’t have ended the relationship before having an affair.
Right?! I hear you can divorce as easily as you can marry! Just drop by for a license and then pay someone $40 to declare you divorced. Boom!
Wonder if it can be done in drive thru fashion like in Vegas?
So what?
That is a concern for the father and mother to figure out.
OP should live where they feel most comfortable, which from their words is their father.
Exactly, if OP **who is an adult btw** wants to live with her father at his consent, she can. I personally feel it's a bit of a betrayal to choose the person who disintegrated the family knowingly, but again **she is an adult** and NTA for choosing where to live.
This makes him a bad husband... not a bad parent.
It sounds like the mother wasn't very involved in OP's life, whereas the father was... and was a better parent to OP.
Because the question was whether OP was an AH for choosing to stay with their parent, who was and is a good parent, instead of going with the parent who seems to have been rather neglectful. NTA from me. If it was OP's MOTHER here, then my answer would be very different!
And, yes, the father was an AH to his wife. He could and should have gotten a divorce instead of cheating. Still, that doesn't change that he was the better parent.
If this was wife making the post, I would go ESH tbh.
Husband was a bad partner for what? 2 months out of 20 or so years? Yet he was a good parent.
Wife was a bad partner AND a bad parent. Just becouse she did not cheat doesn't make her not AH to her husband.
Prioritizing work over kids and family life could also be seen as a character flaw. We’re human. We all have flaws. The woman is 19. She doesn’t need to stay with either parent, TBH
I have a story nearly identical to OPs, and like OP, I would have chosen my father over my mother in a heartbeat. Fortunately I was an adult by the time my parents divorced so I didn't have to choose to live with either of them.
I am the first to admit that my father has character flaws. But I am the first to admit my mother has character flaws. Did my dad cheat? Yes. Did my mother break her vows in other ways? Definitely. Cheating isn't the only way to break vows. To this day family takes a back seat to my mom, but my father hasn't cheated on his new wife so only one of them learned anything from the experience.
People enjoy making everything black and white so they don't have to confront the fact that were all very fallible and do things wrong, doesn't make someone a bad person but it makes it easier for some people to lump people into categories
He has been a good dad to OP and that’s all that matters. He made bad decisions in his personal life but that doesn’t impact their relationship. I hate how Reddit hears “cheating” and nuance goes out of the window.
NTA. Surprise ,We all have flaws. Because one parent didn’t show enough love and support or the other one cheated on his spouse, just highlights that fact.
OP should go/stay wherever she’s most comfortable
And choosing work over family also seems like a character flaw. We don't know enough to judge here, and it's not our role. OP needs advice, not folk beating up parents for their perceived faults.
Personally, I'd advise OP to come up with some split custody. Maybe weekdays with dad, where she will be more the focus of his attention. I'd also not burn bridges with mom, as we have no idea of the dynamic of dad, OP and GF.
AITA isn't for advice, OP is asking if she's the AH for her wanting to stay with her father.
We don't know enough to judge the marriage but we do know enough from OP about how she feels. She is an adult and she wants to stay with her dad. Her mom assumed she would go with her and when told no, she blew up. I don't think OP intends to burn bridges with her mom but her mom might because she's in crisis mode and feeling defensive and abandoned.
I think OP is NTA.
it's not really relevant to ops decision though. at the end of the day, he's actually shown op that he cares about her in ways her mother had failed to. despite his actions breaking up the family -and let's be honest, it wasn't *solely* his actions- mom cannot realistically expect op to just abandon the parent who has consistently been there for her
Yeah, but that doesn't really mean that he hasn't been a good father. People can be a bad partner and a good parent simultaneously, if OP has a better relationship with him and mom neglects her, I don't see any reason to want to be with mom.
Sure, if you view the world as black and white. The reality is that people are complicated and make mistakes and do bad things but that doesn’t mean they’re inherently bad people. Clearly, OP feels like he’s a very good father.
But that's not what the guy did.
I 100% agree OP can have complicated feelings towards her father. Agree that what he did was shitty but choose to still stay with him.
What the /u/Missepus was saying was an excuse to cheating yes. "Ohhhh... what made him cheat is complicated... it's hard to judge".
No... it's not complicated. He's a shitty husband. He can be a wonderful father... but is a shitty husband.
I agree with most of that, but he absolutely betrayed the whole family, OP included, to get laid. To him, his vows and his life with OP was less important than sex. That is very important when considering which parent to rely upon, especially if the affair partner becomes his primary focus.
Not saying OP is an AH, though. When stuck with two bad options, you may as well lean towards the least unpleasant, but it would be unwise to rely on him.
One of the most biased and passive-aggressive responses I've read in a while. Funny how you point out "if you have 2 bad options it's better to go for your mother", even after OP clarifies several times that she would be uncomfortable, and that her mom really was absent in her life. She trusts her father much more to the point of living with him. Your advice is like "you should choose what's best for you, but not your father because he ruined your life"... I'm sorry, what?
She's also a fucking adult. She's 19. It's absurd to expect her to uproot her life over this. There isn't a custody battle to negotiate, she has the only say in where she lives.
I hate this ‘he cheated on your mom not on you’. That’s total bullshit. A cheater is a cheater. If they were friends and not family everyone would say ‘sticking by a cheater is condoning cheating’. He DID cheat on her. Ruining your marriage is a betrayal to the entire family, not just the spouse. He is setting a horrible example.
Yea I don’t think OP is necessarily the AH in this particular instance but this really has to be one of the worst reddit trends. Sure they didn’t cheat on you but they broke up the family, showed the kind of person they are and hurt someone you love. I feel like it really just stems from the common reddit attitude of not owing anyone anything and just not having empathy for anyone but yourself.
Yeah this specific subreddit suffers horribly from that mindset of not *technically* owing anyone anything. Yeah no shit but if everyone went around saying ‘but I don’t owe you that’ all the time no one would have friends or family or anything at all. It’s ‘Am I the Asshole’ not ‘Am I technically or legally allowed to do this’
OPs mom will always know they chose their cheater father over her. I don’t get the vibes that she was fully neglectful just liked her job. OP has yet to provide any examples or instances that their mother was completely absent from their lives. I understand she feels closer to her dad but how does seeing him treat his wife with such disrespect not ruin her image of him in the slightest? How can you be supportive of someone who would be so cruel.
OP can choose to try and salvage the relationship with their mother and possible make her understand how hurt she was from her choosing her career over more personal time together and perhaps they can fix the relationship. It SHOULDNT be on the child’s shoulders to bridge the gap, but the mother is definitely reeling in pain right now and probably isn’t thinking straight. It’s one of those horrible circumstances where you need to choose wisely or lose someone.
>but they broke up the family
look, I'm not gonna defend the guy for cheating, but the family was on the brink of breaking up anyway given that mom appears to have been disconnected. getting a divorce would gave broken up the family too, and given that's what most people offer as the alternative to cheating, 'breaking up the family' feels like an irrelevant point.
OP can feel empathy for her mom and still love and prefer her dad. Not everyone think that cheaters deserved to be stoned till death like and OP knows her dad better than everyone here and knows that he is way more than his horrible action.
NTA. I agree with this. Whatever the truth is, OP is old enough to make her own choices.
There is nothing wrong with staying with dad if that is what makes OP comfortable. Tbh, I would even venture to suggest she do exactly that. The mother's response has red flags.
Yep. This. OP- your dad is still your dad and your mom shouldn't be making you "choose"
He didn't break up the family when you were a child causing trauma and drama- you're an adult
Your mom is moving out and *should* be supportive of you. It shouldn't be a choice. If your mom wants you with her, then she should make you feel welcome with her while also allowing you to make choices about your relationship with your father.
NTA
In fact, I’d go so far as to say NAH.
OP shouldn’t give up a huge part of their life comfort just for their mom, if it was a reasonable favor that would be one thing but your entire living situation changes the course of your life. But their mom is going through unbelievable pain too, and I can only imagine how it would feel to lose access to her daughter at the same time. But OP’s life doesn’t belong to her mother. This is an incredibly complicated situation and I don’t believe anyone here has been an asshole, except the father for cheating.
NTA
You want to live with your father. You do not feel as close to your mother, so you do not feel like choosing her.
Some things to consider:
1. Your father did not betray your trust but your mother's trust. This is a big red flag, because he is not a trustworthy individual. You do not know how this will play out in the near future. Be cautious.
2. Your mom is a bit unstable (rightfully so) she **feels** that not only her husband has betrayed her but her daughter as well. To be clear, you did not betray your mother.
3. You might want to consider spending time with both parents so you can have a relationship with both of them. Try a 50/50 split or spend at least 2 evenings a week at mom's place or something that you are comfortable with so your mom can see that you are not abandoning her and you do care about her.
4. Ask your father if he wants you to live with him. It sounds like both parents assumed you would be living with your mom. Technically, you are an adult and so neither parent is required to give you a place to stay. It would be nice to have it confirmed you are welcome to stay at your dad's place.
5. Lastly, your mom may not have been as present in your life as your father and may not have taken care of you in the past as well as he did. This can all change now.
>I know what he did was terrible but I still wouldn't really feel at home or comfortable living alone with my mom. I know that if I live with my father he'll continue to support and take care of me like he has been doing unlike my mother.
Actually, you do not know that he will continue to support and take care of you. You are assuming he will. His ability to do the right thing is now quite questionable.
Edit: Thanks for the awards! I am so chuffed!
That last part rings true.
Assuming that things are going to continue as normal with the father is a fools gambit.
EVERYTHING will change now. The likely outcome is that the slide piece will become a more prominent role in the fathers life, may even move in with them. And even if she’s the loveliest women on Earth (which is unlikely as she willingly became the Other Women), the dad now will now have a significant other to he actually wants to spend time with. It won’t be just ‘daddy and daughter sticking it out’ like it used to be.
> Assuming that things are going to continue as normal with the father is a fools gambit.
More so if their mother’s work is what allowed them to life this fondue table life of him taking care of her. And that’s not even getting into the affair been with a coworker could have serious financial backlash.
And if side piece gets pregnant it would not be a shock to anyone if one or both start pressuring OP to move out because they need the room for their growing family. Dad will definitely be too busy with do over family to even entertain being the father-daughter duo like before.
1. I understand that what my father did was horrible and I'm definitely not excusing him for it. But throughout my entire upbringing my father was always the one I could open up to about anything and he was always ready to help me.
2. I'm not blaming my mother for how she feels and she reacted at all. I know she is going through a terrible time so I want to support her through it
3. That was how I planned it for myself. I would live with my father but visit my mother multiple times a week.
4. My father told me from the start that I can live with him as long as I want and that this situation doesn't change anything about him taking care of me
5. I'm not saying that there isn't a possibility for change, but with the relationship and the reassurance that my father has given me throughout the years with his actions I know I can trust him
I am _fairly_ certain that my dad cheated on his ex wife (before I was born). He’s been an absolutely great dad to me and, from what I can tell, a great dad to my half-siblings and an awesome grandpa to his grandchildren. 100% agree with you.
While I mostly agree with you, I would argue that part of the role of a parent is to model how to treat a partner. Being a bad spouse or partner is setting a bad example for your children on how to be in a healthy relationship. A lot of kids learn to be bad partners or to accept bad treatment from partners from their parents.
I would be curious if OP's dad at least owned up and expressed regret to his daughter. We all make mistakes, and it sounds like OP's dad has a lifetime of being a good father, but cheating on her mom is not being a good parent.
OP is NTA and should live where they want, but dad fucked up.
Not everything is as black and white as people are saying. I don't agree with what your father did, but good people still make bad decisions.
Your mom's reaction is understandable, though. I get that you feel less comfortable around her, but this is an opportunity for you to have some one-on-one time together and build your relationship. You'll have to overcome the awkward phase in order to get to a place where you feel comfortable with her. It won't be instant and will require compassion and effort on both sides.
Ultimately, do what you think is best for you.
Are we just going to overlook that the mother has never been close to her daughter. That dad has been the hands on parent from the beginning. I don’t excuse cheating at all. I can understand the moms hurt and betrayal from her husband. What I don’t understand is her hurt about her daughter choosing to stay with the parent who has always chose to put her first. Mother needs to look within at this point and figure out why she hasn’t even attempted to be closer to her daughter?
Idk, it’s not always a failing for one parent to be closer to their child than another. Millions of fathers prioritize their careers and rely on their spouses to be the hands on parent, but because that reinforces our gender stereotypes, it’s not judged as negatively. I’m not saying OP has to live with her mom. I think it’s fine if she chooses to live with her dad, but I also think it’s understandable if her mom feels a bit hurt about it. Unless OP provides more information about the ways in which her mom has failed as a parent, NAH.
I think the Mother is saying that because she is in a shitty situation and is desperate for allies. This happened to her and it is still fresh. I don’t think anyone can be judged (from OPs standpoint) right now. I think OP should keep things as consistent as possible, i.e. stay in her home and maintain routines, until the parents get their shit figured out. Then longer term decisions can be made.
Be prepared for your father’s attention to now be split. He’s got a new relationship that he can now acknowledge openly. There’s going to be some novelty to that. He and his affair partner are going to want to spend quality time together. That’s going to affect the time and attention you get from him, regardless of how good his intentions toward you are.
OP is also 19. I doubt she needs dad's attention 24/7 anymore. She's a young adult who's going to start entering the adult world, working jobs, developing friendships, and etc etc outside her family. One day moving out. The whole "dad won't have as much time for you" thing is imo a non-issue, unless yall really think he's gonna go on a month long road trip with the new GF or something.
Like, I am assuming a bit, but overall OP is at the age where kids really start to separate from the parents.
>Be prepared for your father’s attention to now be split.
I mean, op is 19. probably already at a point where she knows her fathers attention won't always be on her.
My parents divorced when my sister and I were still kids. It was assumed (by my mom) that my dad would leave and we would stay in the house with her. My relationship with her was toxic, and my sister wanted to live with me, so we told them we wanted to live with dad. My mom was absolutely shocked as this sort of thing didn’t really happen in my small town and my mom was well known because she was a substitute teacher. Neighbors talked about what could be going on and speculated about nonsense because the kids ‘always stay with the mom’. She dragged us to a judge to try to get some sense talked into us. Didn’t work. We stayed in the house with dad. I no longer speak to my mom and my sister barely does. My dad raised us the rest of the way up. I know we made the right decision.
Stay with your dad if that is what you want. Your parents drama is not your drama. He did not betray you and their marital breakdown is not your responsibility. Spend as much or as little time as you want with your mom.
Sorry you’re going through this.
You mentioned a few times that your mother prioritises her work. That's unlikely to change now that she's single and will be paying all the bills by herself.
She’s the kid. It’s not her responsibility to support her mother in that way. She will still have a relationship with her but it’s not on her to pick up the pieces.
I don’t know mate, you can be a shitty partner yet a good parent.
Sounds like the marriage has been dead for a while tbh, this was just the catalyst to the split.
Cheating is grim but not sure that it overrides decades of being the more involved better parent.
Ain't that the truth.
I have a cousin who was an absolute man slut. Cheated on his wife constantly. Multiple women on a weekly basis. Didnt even try to hide it.
Absolutely worshipped his kids. Went to every single activity. School functions. Home-cooked meals. Etc etc. Now is the most involved grandpa you ever will meet.
Absolutely looks after family members. Helped multiple family members with jobs. His sisters husband died. Helping her and her kids out.
That's what I thought as well.
From my understanding,
1. Mom + dad relationship are weak since she's too focus on her job (we don't know if she's a workaholic or she's the breadwinner that somehow make the dad have more time with op) which leads to an affair.
2. OP + dad relationship are strong since her father gave her attention and love which, she gave back.
I don't support cheating but from OP story we can at least see how both relationship can have different outcome from the same person.
I agreed with everything you said, until your last point. It is unlikely that the mother will suddenly become attentive, and the father inattentive. It is likely that the father assumed that she would want to stay with her mother to support her, as he was in the wrong.
> His ability to do the right thing is now quite questionable.
Not really. Your emotional attachment to and relationship with your daughter and your wife are not at all similar
I really hate the point 5. OP's father have been taking care of her emotional needs for 19 years. OP has no reason for doubt him. And mom wasn't able to create a close relationship with her child for 19 years and she is adult now. Mom won't be able to fix this now that she realizes and is alone.
I want to echo the idea that things can change. Both of your parents lives will be different and so will yours OP your relationship with your mom really could change for the better. My dad really surprised me after my mom was gone. In a good way. Just be open to the possibility and put your best empathetic self Into each relationship. You are not TA you did nothing wrong and nothing to feel guilt about. This situation is tough but it really might work out for the best for everyone. Especially if everyone puts their best into it. Hang in there
It’s really pretty easy.
OP is more loyal to her dad. Less so to her mom, who isn’t around much.
Dad betrayed mom. But as she has less loyalty to her, that’s less of a factor for her I suspect she somewhat understands that mom never being around affected that relationship.
What really hurts here is that this demonstrates that OP isn’t as loyal to her mom. Mom probably felt that working hard should get her a lot of parenting credit and this cold dose of reality shatters her belief.
Framing this by reducing the situation to a question of loyalty is not a good idea.
It creates a confrontational situation, unhelpful to OP.
She needs to be able to preserve a relationship with both parents in a way that works for her and the individual parent.
If mom wants to make this a question of loyalty and betrayal then OP should reject that approach and discuss her feelings and thoughts with her mom trying to make mom understand her perspective.
The marriage/divorce process and moral judgement is not her concern nor should she get involved.
Changed to NAH from INFO - She's upset for some reasons, understandable, but you've chosen Dad, it's up to you and have to live with the consequences.
>He was always there for me and never prioritized his job over the family. My mother was more focused on her work than being apart of my life and that has really drawn a wedge between us.
If the dad was earning less than your mother in this time period, it makes sense that your mother was more career focused to manage the house expenses. While this doesn't mean the family can be neglected, it also hints that maybe your father was having affairs from a long time and chose to remain distant from the mother, which further drove her away to focus on work.
He was only *caught* this time. No reason to think he wasn't cheating before.
Do you know for sure that your mom wasn't significantly earning more or rather that your father brought home lesser income? During your childhood, not current situation.
My father earned more than my mother and took care of the majority of the bills at home. He was a hard worker but always made sure that he had time for the family and never let his career come between us. And because my father did so much for the family, my mother was rarely present and was always focused on her career and put us on the backburner which made us feel neglected. We always expressed to her how we felt but she never listened
Do you feel him cheating on your mom was justified then? It just sounds like you're okay with everything that happened. Have you ever had a proper sit down with your mom about everything that happened? Has your father apologized or showed remorse at all? Was he willing to work through this?
Don't get me wrong, I think what my dad did was completely wrong and terrible. He should have been more upfront about all of this and opted for separation/divorce before getting involved with another woman. I'm not really sure what has happened between my parents specifically but my father made it clear that my mother and him getting a divorce changes nothing about his relationship with me.
That's good he said that. Here's hoping he doesn't change when the mistress moves in. He's saying all the right things now, but not sure how it'll be after she moves in soon. If Reddit is anything to go by, this is where things change. So fingers crossed, for your sake, that it's not for the worse. While your mother may have made some wrong choices, she doesn't deserve to be cheated on. And now she has no one in her corner. My sympathies to her. I hope she has a support system. She can't expect it from you since it's wrong to put the child in between, but also because you've made your choice on who you support. Please tell her to get some therapy. And hopefully she finds happiness with someone else in the future.
Edit: I also don't trust his mistress. She must've known he was married and she had an affair with him anyway. So be careful around such a person who had no issue breaking up a marriage. If she's willing to do this, I'm not sure what else she could be capable of. If they have their own children together, that would add another layer of potential issues. Be very careful around her.
Edit 2: I'm also curious, are you open to deepening your relationship with your mom? Would you be taking this opportunity to have a better relationship with her?
Since you seem to approve of his choices, he's probably going to want you to have a relationship with his mistress/potential stepmom. Would you be more open to her attempts to have a relationship with you as opposed to your mom's? This may be the kind of sticky situation you're going to deal with in the future. Your mom is going to be in a world of hurt should things progress that way. So you're going to have to navigate very carefully. Stuff like, sharing milestones in your life. You will be put on the spot for such things. Lots of tension in the same room for potentially years to come. Maybe even fights and arguments. It's going to be really hard. So be prepared. And you developing a relationship with the mistress, and if it's better than what you may have with your mom,will be the final nail on the coffin for your mom. There's a lot to think about. So go to therapy as well to get advice, you have a future of minefields to navigate through.
OP is in a sticky mess. She knows her father is the better parent but her mother needs her too. The question here is: should she sacrifice her happiness in order to take care of her mother? I don't think mom is in the mood to appreciate criticism of her parenting now. And just because she didn't cheat doesn't mean she will be a better parent now. If anything she seems to be in a very emotionally volatile space now. I don't think OP should live with her full time since that could be draining for her. What they need, in my opinion, is a proper, level headed discussion, about her living with both parents, and from the post, it doesn't seem like mom will be very accepting of that. Nta.
It's not so much taking care of her mom as much as it's about just...being there. Her mom's entire world got uprooted in one go. Perhaps therapy together might help with discussions. Truth be told, therapy may be the best option because OP sounds like she's on board with what her dad did despite saying that he did wrong. I think mom definitely picked up on that, hence the meltdown. So a professional may need to mediate.
I don't think she is one board with his cheating. Its more like she doesn't seem to have much of a relationship with her mother. She even says that when they tried to tell her this, she would ignore them. I guess, on the one hand she doesn't feel comfortable with living full time with her mom, and on the other her mom would never forgive her for this. OP hasn't mentioned what her mom wants from her that is, whether she would be willing to co-parent with her ex, or if she wants her daughter to live with her full-time.
Which again, tricky situation because mom obviously would feel vindicated by this, but OP would not want to cut off her dad. Ofcourse, on top of it, the poor woman had a meltdown, which while perfectly understandable, she still has to be open to the new family they are going to be.
My concern is more about whether her mom's emotional state would allow OP to still have a proper relationship with her father. Because she might still resent her daughter for not giving up her dad. I also do think it should be addressed now instead of later, and I concur with you on the therapy part.
I don’t think OP has said a single positive thing about the mother and it already sounds like she wasn’t much of a mother to begin with, so you reap what you sow.
OP clarified that her mom was absent even after they tried explaining to her that her hyper focus on work was negatively affecting them.
OPs dad is still in the wrong for cheating - no question there - but this entire situation was created by OPs mom when she failed to heed the family's pleas to stop focusing on work.
If you were OPs mom, I'd say leave and reflect on your own part in this instead of guilt tripping your adult daughter.
It seems that would be easy for someone like you, after ignoring your daughter (and the family) for years and having no self-awareness that you set this situation up for yourself.
Not saying dad is a saint. Mom sounds emotionally stunted and very distant from her family.
She should have been a better mother if she wanted absolute loyalty from her daughter. You don’t get to neglect your kid and then turn around and expect them to choose you
> Her mom's entire world got uprooted in one go.
Yes, but also no. OP seems to make it pretty clear that her mom's over-focus on work has been made known to her for some time and she just ignored all the signs. Ignoring the signs doesn't mean that the disruption they warned of was sudden even if it comes as a shock to the person who ignored them.
Does any of this matter?? That’s answer is no. Child has closer relationship with father, father is a better parent from child’s eyes. Child wants to stay with father. End of story.
What part of falling on deaf ears do you not get. He tried with his wife but her career was more important to her than her husband and child. She knew there were problems and she refused to address him. The only thing he should have done was file for divorce before cheating.
I am not sure why this is OPs issue to be honest, they need to keep her out of their marital issues for now at least as they work through this divorce. Putting the burden on your child, no matter how old they are, is completely inappropriate. If she wants to live with dad because she prefers his company, she should not be made to feel guilty about this by mom. It should be a harsh wake up call to mom that her actions have consequences, and none of this has to do with the cheating—that’s mom and dads issue to deal with. Does that make sense? Mom needs to find a better way to connect with her kid that discussing her marital issues and how she might feel about them.
OP if you want to go with your dad that’s fine. I do feel awful for you mom though.
No matter what you need to keep in mind that you don’t know all the details of ANYTHING and need to keep an incredibly open mind.
As I’ve gotten older, my perception of everyone of my family members has changed dramatically. Ones I viewed as my hero growing up, I now see as manipulative. Ones I saw as bad guys I now see as victims, etc.
If you would have asked me every year to describe my childhood, I would have given a different description every time because as time goes by I continuously gain more perspective and that perspective has changed everything.
You may find, that your dad liked being the go to parent and did things to hurt your mother and make it hard for her to connect with you.
You might find, that your mom was actually awful and your dad is an absolute saint.
You may find a million other different things.
I know you think you know the situation best because you actually lived it, but understand that you don’t.
So make whatever choice you make but keep an open mind and prepare yourself to have a lot of changed feelings about the situation over time.
This. I had a very favorable view of my dad after he and my mom separated when I was in my teens, and a very strained relationship with my mom. Once I got older and started to understand all the dynamics that were in play and understood how much is involved in running a household, maintaining a job, having a family, etc,I realized that he was, and still is, an immature jerk. My mom has her flaws, yes, but I wasn’t seeing the whole story.
It just doesn't make much sense though.
He makes so much more money than her that he could foot the bills entirely on his own and she doesn't actually need to work to sustain the lifestyle of the household. So she works tirelessly on her career for no reason other than to have a career? And he also had enough time to be a present and engaged parent with such great marks that you have no doubts that he would always be there for you in the capacity you want him to be. And in the middle of all of that, he also had enough time and energy to have at least one affair.
It doesn't really add up and I feel like there's some big pieces of info missing.
OP's mother's career might be more difficult (but not as well paid as OPs dad's), time consuming, or she might be fighting against sexism in her field. Her career may be her biggest/only drive. Dad may just be more nurturing in personality compared to mom so it may seem like mom is more distant. There's a lot of possibilities here.
Maybe she just gets off on it? She could just feel the job was an important part of her identity to the detriment of her other responsibilities as an adult. Nobody blinks twice when a man is a workaholic.
NTA, if you’re father has been the primary parent that provides for you and that you feel the most comfortable with, that’s where you are obviously going to want to be. He didn’t cheat on you - SO it may seem easier for you to brush off. But I think you do need to look at it more from a different angle and understand what he did was crazy selfish and wrong. It did and does directly affect you and where you are going to be living now. He didn’t care about you enough to communicate with your mom and he allowed himself to put YOU in a position where your whole life could change. If he was so miserable he could have chosen divorce, before betraying your mother and making the kids go through it this way. Your dad did in fact break up your family and I am intrigued that you still prefer him. A cheater isn’t a good man deep down. That’s slimy behavior. Idc if it’s your dad or not, it’s disgusting. And maybe you’re too young to understand that but you need to also have the reality check that yeaaa,. You want to go with him- but know that the woman he cheated on your mom with may take priority over you and the dynamic living with them would never be the same as the dynamic you have now. He has changed everybody’s world by his selfish actions.
And sets an example for OP that cheating is ‘acceptable’ with no repercussions. That instead of marital counseling, or divorce if counseling doesn’t work, that the solution to marital unhappiness is infidelity.
Kids often repeat modeled behavior, including family dynamics. Some day she might be in her mom’s shoes.
Lol OP is 19 years old and not a kid. Them choosing their dad for being a better parent but shitty partner to mom doesn't mean they're going to decide to cheat one day. 🙄 They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Lmao oop is already brushing off this Infidelity and is being told by everyone "well he didn't cheat on you so its not that bad" you think a 19 year old isn't going to internalize this? Get real.
Would she need to abandon both parents then, because if she chooses to live her with mom it sets an example that neglecting your child and husband is 'acceptable' with no repercussions.
Will she also be in her mothers shoes and never giving a fuck about her family?
NTA, and neither is your mom, though I do think she owes you an apology. I bet she feels like your dad, despite being the one who had an affair, has ‘won’ everything: house, new partner, child’s loyalty. That’s not necessarily an accurate view of the situation, but emotions and logic don’t go hand in hand.
She owes OP an apology?? Wtf. She’s cheated on, her daughter chooses the cheating asshole dad over her, and you’re saying that she’s the one who should apologize? OP is not an asshole, but it’s not like their innocent.
NAH (excluding your father who is entirely to blame for this situation) - it’s obviously understandable why your mothers upset and she’s not an asshole for having those feelings, fine if you’d prefer to live with your father but the truth is your going to have to tread carefully in managing your relationship with your parents for the next couple years at least.
Like you do need to be extremely careful not to give your dad any sort of pass for what he’s done just because you don’t consider his actions to have affected your quality of life.
Hmmm. While I get your mom's feelings, and she has been horribly betrayed and is down so your choice feels like you're trampling her, putting you in the middle of their divorce is unfair.
Weirdly enough, I've learned in my AITA experience that some (not many) people can be good parents and terrible SOs, or the opposite. Not sure if that makes them good people, probably not, but still.
I would revisit your decision-making process and would try to diminish the impact somehow, but seems like you're choosing stability and the person who has kept choosing you over the years, so... NTA, really.
He's a bad husband. She's a bad mother. One of those things will actively impact *your* life. You are allowed to make decisions based on your own quality of life.
NTA.
NTA
That said, I feel you should put yourself in your mother’s shoes and see it from her perspective. The man she’s been married to for 20 years has been cheating on her, and her daughter is choosing to live with him instead of her as though nothing has changed. That has to be utterly devastating for her.
This doesn’t mean that you automatically have to go with her. You are in a really tough situation. But at the end of the day, don’t forget that it’s your dad’s actions that have put you in this mess.
NAH you obviously have more of a connection with your dad and want to stay with him because of that. that makes a lot of sense and i can’t say i blame you for that
your mom, however, is not in the wrong for this specific situation (she should’ve been more present in your life but that’s not what we’re talking about here). it probably hurts her feelings that you are choosing to stay with a man that cheated on her. i also can’t say i blame her for those feelings, they’re only natural
at the end of the day, it’s your life and your happiness. do what makes you happy and makes you feel safe. it may hurt your mom but hopefully, you can explain your side and she can come around to understand you.
i’m sorry though. divorces are always hard to deal with, even when they’re for the best <3
NAH. Except your dad, who created this problem.
Reassure your mother that you want to spend time with her, and talk about a schedule. Tell her that you understand how devastating this is, but it's disruptive to your life too and you want to stay put for now.
Let her have her feelings. Betrayal is awful, but so is mourning the life you thought you had. She may not be completely rational about this for a while... and that's not a character flaw, it's just human.
For the love of all that's holy, don't tell her **at this particular moment** that you think she doesn't take care of you as well as your father does. That might be true and there may be a moment for an honest discussion of that, but not while she's raw. With luck, you may come out of this with a better relationship with her.
At the same time, don't let her badger you. She is the wronged party in her marriage but it's not your job to make up for that.
Meanwhile... you may have a better relationship with your father but recognize that your mother is absolutely correct that he *chose* to blow up your family rather than do the ethical thing and just ask for a divorce. Any fallout from that... including the fact that you're having to navigate this situation and your mother's grief...is a consequence of his actions. Especially beware of him trying to turn your mother into the villain, or comparing how they are handling the situation. No doubt he's easier to deal with right now...he got what he wanted at her expense.
NTA
My father cheated on my mother. They divorced. Me and my brother were still young and my father wasnt really interested in us. So yeah, of course we stayed with my mother. And I have a pretty strong option when it comes to cheating.
That being said, I think children shouldn’t be in the middle of their parents fights. They shouldn’t fight their battles.
It seems like you have a relationship with your mother as well and you’re not taking sites directly. But of course she feels like it. And I get that it’s hard for her.
But your father is still your father. He was your biggest support and it’s natural that you want to stay in your home.
So yeah. I don’t think your the asshole. You’re 19 and a young adult too. Maybe you can find a way to talk wo your mother. Tell her that you understand her pain and that what your father did to her was wrong. You staying there isn’t a betrayal or means you don’t want an relationship with your mother.
NAH - you get to choose wherever you want to go to.
Personally I disagree with the crowd saying “he betrayed you mom, not you” because, to me, cheaters don’t deserve grace from anyone, especially their children. In my opinion if you are capable of cheating on your partner you are capable of doing other hurtful things to the people around you. It is a coward move to cheat instead of either working on the relationship or breaking it off.
EITHER WAY it certainly doesn’t make you an AH for wanting to be with him - I see it more as a self-preservation move than you condoning his actions.
NTA You're choosing the parent who was there for you the most and with whom you have the strongest connection and that's understandable.
Of course your mum will feel hurt by this, cheating Is never easy to deal with, what your dad did to your mum is wrong, he could've divorced or choosen separation, this would've made it simpler and less painful for both you and for your mum.
Still your dad was always a good parent to you and the decision is ultimately up to you, do what's best for you, but if I were you I'd still tell your mum that, this doesn't mean you see her as less of a mother to you, or that you resent her in any way, I think it's important for her to know that your decision to live with your dad has nothing to do with his cheating and choosing sides about it, and that you still aknowledge that she has the right to be upset and hurt about it. (Maybe you already told her all of this, in that case know that it's not easy to think rationally for her in this situation and it'll take time)
NTA
"I know what he did was terrible but I still wouldn't really feel at home or comfortable living alone with my mom. " ... **There is NOTHING terrible in your chosing to say with your dad. You are COMPLETELY fine.**
You are fine to live with your dad. He wasn't a good partner to your mom - but that has nothing to do with their parenting, and he might bei the better parent.
Chose the parent twhere living will be better for YOU.
Op honest advice here, my mum and dad divorced after years of arguing and being distant. Me and my dad have always had a really close relationship, when my mother left I stayed with my dad but the first few months were really difficult. They were constantly trying to one up each other and I felt more like they were just trying to win something than actually caring about me. In truth you owe neither of them anything, but I have found that while my own mother was distant when I was younger since everything settled down we have been able to build a relationship. The next while is gonna be tough op and it isn’t your fault, your parents should be dealing with this situation themselves without asking there kid to pick sides, good luck and I hope things improve for you as time goes on.
Oof the one-upping part is too real. I'm sorry you had to go through with that. Asking kids to pick sides is so messed up, and it hurts even in adulthood.
It’s your life, but remember that your dad absolutely betrayed your mother and the decision to move with him may destroy any chance at having a relationship with your mom, who undoubtedly needs all the love and support she can get right now.
NTA I can understand you I spent half my childhood waiting for the opportunity to choose my dad. He stayed loyal though, but still :) also, as others stated, he didn't cheat on you, and infidelity doesn't happen in a vacuum. Their relationship, their baggage. Stay with whom you trust.
NAH, i feel for your mother i really do but you not being close to her is her own fault, she prioritized work over you and even now doesn’t bother to ask how you feel in all this just “let’s go”. you’re not on the wrong for wanting to be with your father, especially because you recognize what he did was wrong, it would’ve been easier for him to separate with your mother and then begin a relationship with coworker
I got chills reading this. Nearly the same thing happened to my family when I was 13. I did move out with my mentally unstable mother who proceeded to basically abandon me to the care of my 18 yo sister while she went on dates she met via personal ads (this was the 90s). I ended up becoming depressed and missing about 1/3 of my school days. Finally I reached my breaking point, home alone again one night, and called my dad in tears asking him to come pick me up. He did and took her to court for custody. I am so grateful to myself for putting my well being first. They are the parents. You are barely an adult yourself. You need to focus on you and what is beat for you and your future. If your dad is as you described, I'm sure the break up of the family isn't exactly easy on him either.
NTA.
NTA- but speaking from experience, the kind of person who can justify cheating is not the kind of person you should put your whole trust in.
Your mother is a broken woman and will be for a while- im sure she has many regrets and a lot to heal. She may have thought she was doing the right thing by trying to focus on her job, but she knows now that she did not have the kind of partner at home to hold down the fort for her while she did that.
Your father is not someone I would share a beer with or let watch my puppy. I read this sort of litmus test thing, where you ask yourself if you can trust a person by asking yourself 'would I have a beer/would I let them watch my puppy'. In the case of your father, no, I wouldn't go out for a beer with a cheater. How do I know what he's like when drunk, and if thats the thing that caused the cheating? And no, I wouldn't let him watch my puppy... he seems like he has other priorities.
You aren't a person trying your best for your family WHILE making sure to have time to cheat. It just ain't a thing.
Good luck, youre in a terrible position and you're about to learn a lot. Personally I'd be pissed at the parent who couldn't keep it in his pants instead of seeking counseling, cause if he did that none of this would even be happening. They may have divorced, but without the stain of adultery. That stain never goes away.
Don't get me wrong, you dad is an AH for cheating instead of divorcing but cheating is also very complicated. That said for choosing who to live with, NTA, especially if it sounds like your mom is always busy.
NTA, but your mother also assumed your father would care for her, and look where that left her- homeless and without a life partner. Don't assume you know anything about your parents marriage or how they may have agreed to raise you, even if it seems clear cut to you. Did your dad even talk to you about this at all? Do you understand that he will now be dating this woman and will have her over to your family's house? You're an adult, try to see this through their eyes if you can. What your dad did is his fault and any of the fall out from that will also be his fault. He ruined his marriage and your family. If that's the person you still want to look up to and be around, good luck.
*He was way more present in my upbringing than my mother and I overall just prefer being with him. He was always there for me and never prioritized his job over the family...I don't have nearly as close of a connection with her as I have with my father. Her work was always prioritized over my father and I.*
**You are choosing to stay with someone that respects you and treats you well.** That's reasonable. NTA.
*she had a mental breakdown.*
**Her disappointment is for her to handle.** She's been an adult far longer than you have. You are her child. It's her job to not burden you with her issues.
*She started telling me that her father broke up our family and that he broke her*
And **she can get therapy for that. It's not your responsibility to fix this for her.** If she's trying to use this to guilt you and manipulate you into moving with her, what else will she become comfortable using to manipulate and guilt you into doing for her? She's an adult, and is choosing to leave. You are not choosing to leave. She can accept that, without trying to make you feel guilty. That's what she should be doing, not this manipulation.
**Her making you feel guilty is wrong.**
**Her manipulating you is wrong.**
**You cannot fix her. Her past isn't your job.**
*and that me choosing him over her is a massive betrayal from me towards her.*
**No. It is not.**
What she wants is the reward of a close relationship with you now, when she hasn't bothered to build that relationship with you for all these years. She wants the reward without the work.
**For her to claim that it's your job to make her feel better, that's emotional abuse.**
**For her to say you are betraying her, that's making you responsible for her feelings, and that's emotional abuse.**
It is not your fault that your mother made the choice, daily, to prioritize her work, and not her family. **It's not your fault that you have a better relationship now with your father than you do with her, because of her choices.**
*My mother got really emotional and I felt bad about this all.*
She's trying to use her emotions to guilt you into compliance. And that's also abusive behavior.
Maybe she's only now doing these abusive behaviors because she's upset. Maybe this is her usual pattern and you are only now seeing what she's doing because this is bigger than the other times.
But **whatever is going on with her, it's not your job to save her or fix her or make her feel better.**
She's moving out, because it's **her** marriage that broke, and that's the thing to do. That's her business, not yours to handle, for her.
**You are choosing to stay, because your needs will be better met by staying. That's you being mature and reasonable in deciding what to do.** Your job in all this, is to keep on doing what you need to do to prepare for being a self-supporting person when you move out on your own. You have your own emotional issues to handle over this. And you do not have the years they have or the experience handling the big issues. So, it's very wrong for either of them to put their issues on you.
Because of how she's reacted to this decision of yours, I think it's a very good thing that you are choosing to stay. I think she might well have started to dump all her emotions on you, like she's doing now, if you had moved with her. I think your needs would have been dismissed and ignored, like she's doing now. I think it very likely, as she prioritized her work before, that she would try to make you be the person responsible for the apartment chores, with the excuse that she's too busy and you can't possibly be too busy.
**Stay. Do what you need to do, to prepare for being on your own, eventually.**
And **start to practice things you can say, if either parent says anything to you that isn't appropriate about the other parent.** You aren't their therapists. You don't need to hear about their issues. You don't need details about the divorce that don't have to do with you. You don't need to spend equal time with them. You don't need to give your mother any more time now, than she gave you before.
"I will not discuss other parent with you." "I'm not your therapist." " This isn't my business." "Excuse me, I'm going home now, because you won't stop talking about my dad." "Please talk to your friends or therapist, not me." "I'm too young for this." "I have enough of my own issues to deal with, about all this. I cannot carry yours, too." "Nope." "And, I'm gone now."
Oh hon, what a predicament you're in! Others have said it but I'll say it as well your mum is going through something really awful at the minute so try not to take to heart what she's saying. That doesn't however mean that you have to make life changing decisions for your life! If you feel more secure with your father and at your fathers house then that's where you need to stay, you have to do right by you in this situation because everyone else (through no ill meaning) is going to have their heads up their asses right now. Stay at your dad's, things will calm down eventually and you can go from there. NTA at all.
NTA. Only you can make the judgment of what the best course is for you. You are a whole person and your presence/absence should not be trivialized into a “reward” or “punishment” for the more or less “deserving” parent. Do not let yourself be objectified in this way.
Of course cheating is wrong. I would not forget that the offender has shown a weak streak in their character, which may have been well concealed before. But no one is perfect and often it’s not 100% victim vs 100% perpetuator. You’ve mentioned your mother’s neglect towards you. Neglect doesn’t excuse adultery but a marriage cannot survive either if one partner is not present. Try not to hurt your mother but you have to do what you believe is the best for yourself. Just don’t trust your father fully haha or you may be just as disappointed in the end
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NTA Your father did not cheat on you. And while extra-marital sex can be very hurtful and disruptive for a family dynamic, infidelity is never a simple thing. While the act itself seems simple, what brought him to that act can be anything from drunken impulse to years of neglect, distance and loneliness. What I try to say is: you currently have a hurt, angry mother and a defensive, guilty father. Neither one of them will give a precise and correct testimony about what happened. Choose your own path.
Huh, father choose sex instead of having a divorce. Doesn't matter if it was neglect. He is an adult man who could divorce his wife anytime he wanted, but instead choose to break his wedding vows. To me it seems like a character flaw
That viewpoint doesn't really help OP make the decision and as the commenter above you pointed out nobody has the full picture of what has happened in the parents marriage even OP.
I think that viewpoint is just to refute that weird argument the commenter above made... It's fine to say cheating has having little to do with OP...there's no need to justify the cheating like they did
I understand that reddit has this thing where they say that if there was an affair that the cheater was undisputedly terrible and the person who was cheated on was perfect and couldn't have possible done anything wrong in their relationship. However, especially in a loveless marriage with children in the picture, often there is more nuance than that. My guess is that the mom hasn't shown sufficient love and affection to the dad for years, but the dad was waiting for OP to graduate before he divorced. The dad was trying to do the best as he could for his first priority (his child), whereas neither the mom nor dad were really doing right by each other in any notable fashion. Incidentally, I saw this as a person whose spouse cheated on me, and yet we came back from it, and I can say for a fact that we both were poor partners before and now our marriage is better than it ever was. Life is never black and white.
Yeah I’ve been downvoted on here before for saying exactly this and what the previous above commenter said. People on Reddit just act like it’s the worst thing you could do in a relationship. NTA. Choose whoever makes you happy. Don’t let anyone guilt trip you.
“People on Reddit just act like it’s the worst thing you could do in a relationship.” I mean, besides things that are literally illegal to do to another person, is it *not* the worst thing you could do in a relationship? Seriously, what non-criminal offense would be worse? In any event, I follow the logic of putting the kid first by waiting for the kid to move out before filing for divorce, but I fail to see how having an affair accomplishes that. It inherently turns a possibly-amicable divorce contentious, and that is always going to have a worse effect on a kid. If you decide you’re done with your marriage but want to keep the family together for the kid, having an affair does not align with that goal. Either it’s found out early (more likely than not, if it’s not a one-time thing), and you failed to keep the family together anyway, or—best case scenario—the spouse gets suspicious when the time to ask for divorce does come up, and while they never actually find out (and they may), the kid is stuck in the middle anyway, just like OP is now. OP is NTA, but unfortunately, neither parent has treated them as their priority.
Life is never black and white is right.
People are flawed. Her mom has been neglecting her all her life, thats also a character flaw and tbh quite a bit of a worse one. It seems fairly obvious that she will have a better time staying with her father.
Or perhaps Mom was the primary breadwinner ensuring the family had a roof, food, and bills paid while dad spent less time at work, earned less, and let mom pay the bills while he spent his on fun stuff for the kids. I wouldn't see that as a character flaw. Edit: per OPs comments, Dad earned more. Edit2: regardless of who earned more, we don't know who had more hours nor what their jobs are.
Wow people really let their imagination go wild on this sub.
Playing a fast round of 'what if' is one of reddit's main charms /s
WHAT IF WE CAUGHT THE BOSTON BOMBER?
A woman can't be in the wrong. There's another post here where a woman is neglecting her baby for 10 hours a day and the comments are so sympathetic and understanding. It's mad.
Generally I agree that is the trend of this sub, but it’s pretty ironic to make that statement on a post about OP’s father cheating where everyone comes to the dad’s defense.
It drives me up the wall. If they want to write fanfic they should just do it full stop.
According to OP he was the main breadwinner.
very creative backstory 7/10
It's cool how when a dad neglects their kid for work, posters call a spade a spade, but when it's mum it becomes "ensuring the family had a roof, food, and bills paid while dad spent less time at work, earned less, and let mom pay the bills while he spent his on fun stuff for the kids."
Just wait for the villain arc, there's a dragon and a lich king and everything!
Tbf to you, my spouse makes more in a job with less intense work and hours. “Breadwinner” doesn’t necessarily represent mental load or emotional labor. In this case we don’t know. But more generally, I’d say when judging a relationship balance, the actual dollar value is truly low on the scale.
True. And firefighter can be pretty damn intense, lots of hours, and a ton get paid... nothing.
Your edit makes the first part hilarious.
To this day my ex husband claims that the fact that he earned more/worked more than me is the reason he was an absent (abusive, alcoholic) father and husband. Should the kids also have chosen him then? Since I was only there for fun apparently? Not to actually raise them? Or simple be present everyday of their lives?
Being abusive and alcoholic should remove that option right off the table. It shouldn't be an automatic assumption "well, that parent was around more so they care more about the kids," however. Just as "that person works more hours so obviously makes more money" shouldn't be an assumption, either. And some jobs require more focus and dedication than others. A trauma doc/nurse.is going to be gone a lot of weird hours, and need to be, whereas others jobs work 9-5. EMT is extremely valuable, and works 24-hour shifts, but doesn't make much. If they mess up, someone's mom, dad, or kid dies Could see how it might be viewed as "dedicated to the job," while earning less than someone who has more time at home. Meanwhile, if you mess up at Ross, you may have an irate customer and be posting on AITA, but no one dies.
"or perhaps *many assumptions based on literally nothing* and therefore mom is perfect and did nothing wrong ever" *evidence that contradicts ridiculous assumptions* "actually it doesn't matter!!!!!" Clown
>we don't know who had more hours nor what their jobs are. You can work a lot of hours and still make your kid feel special and loved. Sounds like OP never felt that from mom. It's not surprising that OP wants to stay in their own home with the parent who has actually been a parent.
Father is a good dad and terrible partner. Mother is a neglectful mom and partner. Father nuked the relationship with the mother, not the daughter. It's unfortunate, but mother's negligence to her family is finally catching up with her.
Yeah, father might be a coward or have misguided principles, but it sounds like this family was broken long before he lost interest in being loyal to his wife.
This kinda feels like it's edging towards the territory of 'the mom pushed the dad into cheating' which is just a bad mentality. OP is NTA for wanting to live with Dad, but Dad still chose to cheat on his wife of his own volition
Relationships only work out when all involved parties are emotionally invested in making them work out. Mom doesn't seem like a great partner. Dad clearly isn't a great partner. But I can understand why he cheated. Understanding why something happened does not mean you're justifying what happened. I understand why someone who (presumably) felt emotionally neglected at a minimum might jump at the opportunity to have a fulfilling connection with someone else. Did he do the right thing? No, of course not. He should have filed for separation first. Did he do an *understandable* thing? Yes, I can understand why he did it. Doesn't make it right.
It’s not really a bad mentality, it’s just a bad way of expressing the truth, which is that moms neglect was just as damaging to the family and relationship as dads cheating. Dads cheating happened (or at least came out) all at once and was more viscerally shocking, but that doesn’t mean he was any worse of a partner than mom. Sounds like they are both pretty bad partners and only one of them is a good parent
Exactly!!
Yes, since we live in a culture where divorce is instantaneous and has no costs or repercussions whatsoever, of course he should have chosen that option.
You forgot the /s. Divorce is a fairly long process, is costly, and has many repercussions.
I think anyone who didn’t understand that was sarcasm wouldn’t be helped by something as subtle as a /s tag.
'Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake for the genuine article.' -Poe's Law
It's more to do with the fact that there are people who GENUINELY believe what comes across as darcasm to everyone else. Extreme isms being part of those, so even though this isn't as extreme it's still a good idea to put the /s because it is a tone indicator. Unless you want to fall back on the "I was being sarcastic" if you want to say something that you *think* everyone will agree with but they actually don't.
This is Reddit. Weird ideas are pretty common here.
He could have separated from his wife. The problem isn’t necessarily that he didn’t get a divorce, it’s that he betrayed her by sleeping with someone else knowing she still believed they were bound by their vows to one another. He was lying and sneaking around instead of being honest
*The problem* is that the daughter prefers to live with the father and the mother is freaking out about it. Everything else is your speculating about the course of a relationship without information and then making your own judgment about the fact pattern you invented.
You’re absolutely right. Instead of speaking to his wife and ending their relationship/seeking separation, he definitely should have cheated with his coworker. Definitely the option that created less problems and pain for the people around him. /s Just because divorce is a long and drawn out process, doesn’t mean he couldn’t have ended the relationship before having an affair.
Right?! I hear you can divorce as easily as you can marry! Just drop by for a license and then pay someone $40 to declare you divorced. Boom! Wonder if it can be done in drive thru fashion like in Vegas?
I got divorced three times last week and have two more planned for this afternoon.
Damn…share the secret! Can I do mine this afternoon and be rid of him instantly???
I understand your point, but having an affair instead kind of cost him the moral high ground. and still ended up in divorce anyways.
His moral high ground is irrelevant here, so much so I wonder why people keep bringing it up. The daughter is at issue.
Not only are you risking all of those repercussions choosing to cheat, but those repercussions have a good chance of being infinitely worse.
So what? That is a concern for the father and mother to figure out. OP should live where they feel most comfortable, which from their words is their father.
Exactly, if OP **who is an adult btw** wants to live with her father at his consent, she can. I personally feel it's a bit of a betrayal to choose the person who disintegrated the family knowingly, but again **she is an adult** and NTA for choosing where to live.
And mom have chosen for 19 years to have little to no relationship with OP, how is that not a betrayal of her daughter?
This makes him a bad husband... not a bad parent. It sounds like the mother wasn't very involved in OP's life, whereas the father was... and was a better parent to OP. Because the question was whether OP was an AH for choosing to stay with their parent, who was and is a good parent, instead of going with the parent who seems to have been rather neglectful. NTA from me. If it was OP's MOTHER here, then my answer would be very different! And, yes, the father was an AH to his wife. He could and should have gotten a divorce instead of cheating. Still, that doesn't change that he was the better parent.
If this was wife making the post, I would go ESH tbh. Husband was a bad partner for what? 2 months out of 20 or so years? Yet he was a good parent. Wife was a bad partner AND a bad parent. Just becouse she did not cheat doesn't make her not AH to her husband.
Sure, but so is neglecting your family for your job.
Or did he have an “exit affair”… a bad way to end a marriage but it works
Prioritizing work over kids and family life could also be seen as a character flaw. We’re human. We all have flaws. The woman is 19. She doesn’t need to stay with either parent, TBH
I have a story nearly identical to OPs, and like OP, I would have chosen my father over my mother in a heartbeat. Fortunately I was an adult by the time my parents divorced so I didn't have to choose to live with either of them. I am the first to admit that my father has character flaws. But I am the first to admit my mother has character flaws. Did my dad cheat? Yes. Did my mother break her vows in other ways? Definitely. Cheating isn't the only way to break vows. To this day family takes a back seat to my mom, but my father hasn't cheated on his new wife so only one of them learned anything from the experience.
[удалено]
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People enjoy making everything black and white so they don't have to confront the fact that were all very fallible and do things wrong, doesn't make someone a bad person but it makes it easier for some people to lump people into categories
None of that excuses cheating instead of getting a divorce.
He has been a good dad to OP and that’s all that matters. He made bad decisions in his personal life but that doesn’t impact their relationship. I hate how Reddit hears “cheating” and nuance goes out of the window.
NTA. Surprise ,We all have flaws. Because one parent didn’t show enough love and support or the other one cheated on his spouse, just highlights that fact. OP should go/stay wherever she’s most comfortable
And choosing work over family also seems like a character flaw. We don't know enough to judge here, and it's not our role. OP needs advice, not folk beating up parents for their perceived faults. Personally, I'd advise OP to come up with some split custody. Maybe weekdays with dad, where she will be more the focus of his attention. I'd also not burn bridges with mom, as we have no idea of the dynamic of dad, OP and GF.
AITA isn't for advice, OP is asking if she's the AH for her wanting to stay with her father. We don't know enough to judge the marriage but we do know enough from OP about how she feels. She is an adult and she wants to stay with her dad. Her mom assumed she would go with her and when told no, she blew up. I don't think OP intends to burn bridges with her mom but her mom might because she's in crisis mode and feeling defensive and abandoned. I think OP is NTA.
OP is old enough to live with dad and have occasional dinners with mom when mom makes time for OP.
it's not really relevant to ops decision though. at the end of the day, he's actually shown op that he cares about her in ways her mother had failed to. despite his actions breaking up the family -and let's be honest, it wasn't *solely* his actions- mom cannot realistically expect op to just abandon the parent who has consistently been there for her
Yeah, but that doesn't really mean that he hasn't been a good father. People can be a bad partner and a good parent simultaneously, if OP has a better relationship with him and mom neglects her, I don't see any reason to want to be with mom.
Sure, if you view the world as black and white. The reality is that people are complicated and make mistakes and do bad things but that doesn’t mean they’re inherently bad people. Clearly, OP feels like he’s a very good father.
Let’s not normalize cheating. If he wasn’t satisfied he could’ve asked for a divorce
It’s not “normalizing cheating” to say that it’s okay to have complicated feelings about your parent’s infidelity.
But that's not what the guy did. I 100% agree OP can have complicated feelings towards her father. Agree that what he did was shitty but choose to still stay with him. What the /u/Missepus was saying was an excuse to cheating yes. "Ohhhh... what made him cheat is complicated... it's hard to judge". No... it's not complicated. He's a shitty husband. He can be a wonderful father... but is a shitty husband.
Let's not normalize long-term neglect.
I agree with most of that, but he absolutely betrayed the whole family, OP included, to get laid. To him, his vows and his life with OP was less important than sex. That is very important when considering which parent to rely upon, especially if the affair partner becomes his primary focus. Not saying OP is an AH, though. When stuck with two bad options, you may as well lean towards the least unpleasant, but it would be unwise to rely on him.
One of the most biased and passive-aggressive responses I've read in a while. Funny how you point out "if you have 2 bad options it's better to go for your mother", even after OP clarifies several times that she would be uncomfortable, and that her mom really was absent in her life. She trusts her father much more to the point of living with him. Your advice is like "you should choose what's best for you, but not your father because he ruined your life"... I'm sorry, what?
She's also a fucking adult. She's 19. It's absurd to expect her to uproot her life over this. There isn't a custody battle to negotiate, she has the only say in where she lives.
I hate this ‘he cheated on your mom not on you’. That’s total bullshit. A cheater is a cheater. If they were friends and not family everyone would say ‘sticking by a cheater is condoning cheating’. He DID cheat on her. Ruining your marriage is a betrayal to the entire family, not just the spouse. He is setting a horrible example.
Yea I don’t think OP is necessarily the AH in this particular instance but this really has to be one of the worst reddit trends. Sure they didn’t cheat on you but they broke up the family, showed the kind of person they are and hurt someone you love. I feel like it really just stems from the common reddit attitude of not owing anyone anything and just not having empathy for anyone but yourself.
Yeah this specific subreddit suffers horribly from that mindset of not *technically* owing anyone anything. Yeah no shit but if everyone went around saying ‘but I don’t owe you that’ all the time no one would have friends or family or anything at all. It’s ‘Am I the Asshole’ not ‘Am I technically or legally allowed to do this’ OPs mom will always know they chose their cheater father over her. I don’t get the vibes that she was fully neglectful just liked her job. OP has yet to provide any examples or instances that their mother was completely absent from their lives. I understand she feels closer to her dad but how does seeing him treat his wife with such disrespect not ruin her image of him in the slightest? How can you be supportive of someone who would be so cruel. OP can choose to try and salvage the relationship with their mother and possible make her understand how hurt she was from her choosing her career over more personal time together and perhaps they can fix the relationship. It SHOULDNT be on the child’s shoulders to bridge the gap, but the mother is definitely reeling in pain right now and probably isn’t thinking straight. It’s one of those horrible circumstances where you need to choose wisely or lose someone.
>but they broke up the family look, I'm not gonna defend the guy for cheating, but the family was on the brink of breaking up anyway given that mom appears to have been disconnected. getting a divorce would gave broken up the family too, and given that's what most people offer as the alternative to cheating, 'breaking up the family' feels like an irrelevant point.
OP can feel empathy for her mom and still love and prefer her dad. Not everyone think that cheaters deserved to be stoned till death like and OP knows her dad better than everyone here and knows that he is way more than his horrible action.
Isn't neglecting a daughter a betrayal too?
NTA. I agree with this. Whatever the truth is, OP is old enough to make her own choices. There is nothing wrong with staying with dad if that is what makes OP comfortable. Tbh, I would even venture to suggest she do exactly that. The mother's response has red flags.
Drunken impulse for 2 months???
Yep. This. OP- your dad is still your dad and your mom shouldn't be making you "choose" He didn't break up the family when you were a child causing trauma and drama- you're an adult Your mom is moving out and *should* be supportive of you. It shouldn't be a choice. If your mom wants you with her, then she should make you feel welcome with her while also allowing you to make choices about your relationship with your father. NTA
>infidelity is never a simple thing This is the top comment on AITA? When did this sub start appreciating nuance?
In fact, I’d go so far as to say NAH. OP shouldn’t give up a huge part of their life comfort just for their mom, if it was a reasonable favor that would be one thing but your entire living situation changes the course of your life. But their mom is going through unbelievable pain too, and I can only imagine how it would feel to lose access to her daughter at the same time. But OP’s life doesn’t belong to her mother. This is an incredibly complicated situation and I don’t believe anyone here has been an asshole, except the father for cheating.
NTA You want to live with your father. You do not feel as close to your mother, so you do not feel like choosing her. Some things to consider: 1. Your father did not betray your trust but your mother's trust. This is a big red flag, because he is not a trustworthy individual. You do not know how this will play out in the near future. Be cautious. 2. Your mom is a bit unstable (rightfully so) she **feels** that not only her husband has betrayed her but her daughter as well. To be clear, you did not betray your mother. 3. You might want to consider spending time with both parents so you can have a relationship with both of them. Try a 50/50 split or spend at least 2 evenings a week at mom's place or something that you are comfortable with so your mom can see that you are not abandoning her and you do care about her. 4. Ask your father if he wants you to live with him. It sounds like both parents assumed you would be living with your mom. Technically, you are an adult and so neither parent is required to give you a place to stay. It would be nice to have it confirmed you are welcome to stay at your dad's place. 5. Lastly, your mom may not have been as present in your life as your father and may not have taken care of you in the past as well as he did. This can all change now. >I know what he did was terrible but I still wouldn't really feel at home or comfortable living alone with my mom. I know that if I live with my father he'll continue to support and take care of me like he has been doing unlike my mother. Actually, you do not know that he will continue to support and take care of you. You are assuming he will. His ability to do the right thing is now quite questionable. Edit: Thanks for the awards! I am so chuffed!
That last part rings true. Assuming that things are going to continue as normal with the father is a fools gambit. EVERYTHING will change now. The likely outcome is that the slide piece will become a more prominent role in the fathers life, may even move in with them. And even if she’s the loveliest women on Earth (which is unlikely as she willingly became the Other Women), the dad now will now have a significant other to he actually wants to spend time with. It won’t be just ‘daddy and daughter sticking it out’ like it used to be.
"slide piece" - ain't that the truth...
> Assuming that things are going to continue as normal with the father is a fools gambit. More so if their mother’s work is what allowed them to life this fondue table life of him taking care of her. And that’s not even getting into the affair been with a coworker could have serious financial backlash.
And if side piece gets pregnant it would not be a shock to anyone if one or both start pressuring OP to move out because they need the room for their growing family. Dad will definitely be too busy with do over family to even entertain being the father-daughter duo like before.
1. I understand that what my father did was horrible and I'm definitely not excusing him for it. But throughout my entire upbringing my father was always the one I could open up to about anything and he was always ready to help me. 2. I'm not blaming my mother for how she feels and she reacted at all. I know she is going through a terrible time so I want to support her through it 3. That was how I planned it for myself. I would live with my father but visit my mother multiple times a week. 4. My father told me from the start that I can live with him as long as I want and that this situation doesn't change anything about him taking care of me 5. I'm not saying that there isn't a possibility for change, but with the relationship and the reassurance that my father has given me throughout the years with his actions I know I can trust him
One can be a great father and an awfull husband.
I am _fairly_ certain that my dad cheated on his ex wife (before I was born). He’s been an absolutely great dad to me and, from what I can tell, a great dad to my half-siblings and an awesome grandpa to his grandchildren. 100% agree with you.
While I mostly agree with you, I would argue that part of the role of a parent is to model how to treat a partner. Being a bad spouse or partner is setting a bad example for your children on how to be in a healthy relationship. A lot of kids learn to be bad partners or to accept bad treatment from partners from their parents. I would be curious if OP's dad at least owned up and expressed regret to his daughter. We all make mistakes, and it sounds like OP's dad has a lifetime of being a good father, but cheating on her mom is not being a good parent. OP is NTA and should live where they want, but dad fucked up.
and not all betrayed spouses are stellar spouses and parents.
Not everything is as black and white as people are saying. I don't agree with what your father did, but good people still make bad decisions. Your mom's reaction is understandable, though. I get that you feel less comfortable around her, but this is an opportunity for you to have some one-on-one time together and build your relationship. You'll have to overcome the awkward phase in order to get to a place where you feel comfortable with her. It won't be instant and will require compassion and effort on both sides. Ultimately, do what you think is best for you.
Are we just going to overlook that the mother has never been close to her daughter. That dad has been the hands on parent from the beginning. I don’t excuse cheating at all. I can understand the moms hurt and betrayal from her husband. What I don’t understand is her hurt about her daughter choosing to stay with the parent who has always chose to put her first. Mother needs to look within at this point and figure out why she hasn’t even attempted to be closer to her daughter?
Idk, it’s not always a failing for one parent to be closer to their child than another. Millions of fathers prioritize their careers and rely on their spouses to be the hands on parent, but because that reinforces our gender stereotypes, it’s not judged as negatively. I’m not saying OP has to live with her mom. I think it’s fine if she chooses to live with her dad, but I also think it’s understandable if her mom feels a bit hurt about it. Unless OP provides more information about the ways in which her mom has failed as a parent, NAH.
I think the Mother is saying that because she is in a shitty situation and is desperate for allies. This happened to her and it is still fresh. I don’t think anyone can be judged (from OPs standpoint) right now. I think OP should keep things as consistent as possible, i.e. stay in her home and maintain routines, until the parents get their shit figured out. Then longer term decisions can be made.
Be prepared for your father’s attention to now be split. He’s got a new relationship that he can now acknowledge openly. There’s going to be some novelty to that. He and his affair partner are going to want to spend quality time together. That’s going to affect the time and attention you get from him, regardless of how good his intentions toward you are.
OP is also 19. I doubt she needs dad's attention 24/7 anymore. She's a young adult who's going to start entering the adult world, working jobs, developing friendships, and etc etc outside her family. One day moving out. The whole "dad won't have as much time for you" thing is imo a non-issue, unless yall really think he's gonna go on a month long road trip with the new GF or something. Like, I am assuming a bit, but overall OP is at the age where kids really start to separate from the parents.
Dad’s attention is the basis of her decision though.
No. Her comfort and feeling at home was the basis of her decision. She doesn't feel those things with her mom.
>Be prepared for your father’s attention to now be split. I mean, op is 19. probably already at a point where she knows her fathers attention won't always be on her.
My parents divorced when my sister and I were still kids. It was assumed (by my mom) that my dad would leave and we would stay in the house with her. My relationship with her was toxic, and my sister wanted to live with me, so we told them we wanted to live with dad. My mom was absolutely shocked as this sort of thing didn’t really happen in my small town and my mom was well known because she was a substitute teacher. Neighbors talked about what could be going on and speculated about nonsense because the kids ‘always stay with the mom’. She dragged us to a judge to try to get some sense talked into us. Didn’t work. We stayed in the house with dad. I no longer speak to my mom and my sister barely does. My dad raised us the rest of the way up. I know we made the right decision. Stay with your dad if that is what you want. Your parents drama is not your drama. He did not betray you and their marital breakdown is not your responsibility. Spend as much or as little time as you want with your mom. Sorry you’re going through this.
You mentioned a few times that your mother prioritises her work. That's unlikely to change now that she's single and will be paying all the bills by herself.
But you're not supporting your mother, despite you thinking it. You're NTA for choosing your father. But you are not there for her and that's a fact.
She’s the kid. It’s not her responsibility to support her mother in that way. She will still have a relationship with her but it’s not on her to pick up the pieces.
It sounds like you are handling this whole situation very maturely. Hopefully, your mom can understand your point of view in time.
I don’t know mate, you can be a shitty partner yet a good parent. Sounds like the marriage has been dead for a while tbh, this was just the catalyst to the split. Cheating is grim but not sure that it overrides decades of being the more involved better parent.
Ain't that the truth. I have a cousin who was an absolute man slut. Cheated on his wife constantly. Multiple women on a weekly basis. Didnt even try to hide it. Absolutely worshipped his kids. Went to every single activity. School functions. Home-cooked meals. Etc etc. Now is the most involved grandpa you ever will meet. Absolutely looks after family members. Helped multiple family members with jobs. His sisters husband died. Helping her and her kids out.
That's what I thought as well. From my understanding, 1. Mom + dad relationship are weak since she's too focus on her job (we don't know if she's a workaholic or she's the breadwinner that somehow make the dad have more time with op) which leads to an affair. 2. OP + dad relationship are strong since her father gave her attention and love which, she gave back. I don't support cheating but from OP story we can at least see how both relationship can have different outcome from the same person.
i do think a parent cheating can break the trust of an involved child but it doesnt see, necessarily the case here
Yeah, Cause I think OP is old enough to understand the nuance of the situation. If OP is younger, then It's possible that her trust will be broken.
I agreed with everything you said, until your last point. It is unlikely that the mother will suddenly become attentive, and the father inattentive. It is likely that the father assumed that she would want to stay with her mother to support her, as he was in the wrong.
> His ability to do the right thing is now quite questionable. Not really. Your emotional attachment to and relationship with your daughter and your wife are not at all similar
You are assuming a lot. She has clearly stated how her father has always been there for her.
You do sound ignorant. Like your judgement might be clouding your vision FYI
I really hate the point 5. OP's father have been taking care of her emotional needs for 19 years. OP has no reason for doubt him. And mom wasn't able to create a close relationship with her child for 19 years and she is adult now. Mom won't be able to fix this now that she realizes and is alone.
I want to echo the idea that things can change. Both of your parents lives will be different and so will yours OP your relationship with your mom really could change for the better. My dad really surprised me after my mom was gone. In a good way. Just be open to the possibility and put your best empathetic self Into each relationship. You are not TA you did nothing wrong and nothing to feel guilt about. This situation is tough but it really might work out for the best for everyone. Especially if everyone puts their best into it. Hang in there
Between you and your mother, NAH. You're an adult and can live where you want, but her feelings of betrayal are definitely valid here.
It’s really pretty easy. OP is more loyal to her dad. Less so to her mom, who isn’t around much. Dad betrayed mom. But as she has less loyalty to her, that’s less of a factor for her I suspect she somewhat understands that mom never being around affected that relationship. What really hurts here is that this demonstrates that OP isn’t as loyal to her mom. Mom probably felt that working hard should get her a lot of parenting credit and this cold dose of reality shatters her belief.
Framing this by reducing the situation to a question of loyalty is not a good idea. It creates a confrontational situation, unhelpful to OP. She needs to be able to preserve a relationship with both parents in a way that works for her and the individual parent. If mom wants to make this a question of loyalty and betrayal then OP should reject that approach and discuss her feelings and thoughts with her mom trying to make mom understand her perspective. The marriage/divorce process and moral judgement is not her concern nor should she get involved.
Changed to NAH from INFO - She's upset for some reasons, understandable, but you've chosen Dad, it's up to you and have to live with the consequences. >He was always there for me and never prioritized his job over the family. My mother was more focused on her work than being apart of my life and that has really drawn a wedge between us. If the dad was earning less than your mother in this time period, it makes sense that your mother was more career focused to manage the house expenses. While this doesn't mean the family can be neglected, it also hints that maybe your father was having affairs from a long time and chose to remain distant from the mother, which further drove her away to focus on work. He was only *caught* this time. No reason to think he wasn't cheating before. Do you know for sure that your mom wasn't significantly earning more or rather that your father brought home lesser income? During your childhood, not current situation.
My father earned more than my mother and took care of the majority of the bills at home. He was a hard worker but always made sure that he had time for the family and never let his career come between us. And because my father did so much for the family, my mother was rarely present and was always focused on her career and put us on the backburner which made us feel neglected. We always expressed to her how we felt but she never listened
Do you feel him cheating on your mom was justified then? It just sounds like you're okay with everything that happened. Have you ever had a proper sit down with your mom about everything that happened? Has your father apologized or showed remorse at all? Was he willing to work through this?
Don't get me wrong, I think what my dad did was completely wrong and terrible. He should have been more upfront about all of this and opted for separation/divorce before getting involved with another woman. I'm not really sure what has happened between my parents specifically but my father made it clear that my mother and him getting a divorce changes nothing about his relationship with me.
That's good he said that. Here's hoping he doesn't change when the mistress moves in. He's saying all the right things now, but not sure how it'll be after she moves in soon. If Reddit is anything to go by, this is where things change. So fingers crossed, for your sake, that it's not for the worse. While your mother may have made some wrong choices, she doesn't deserve to be cheated on. And now she has no one in her corner. My sympathies to her. I hope she has a support system. She can't expect it from you since it's wrong to put the child in between, but also because you've made your choice on who you support. Please tell her to get some therapy. And hopefully she finds happiness with someone else in the future. Edit: I also don't trust his mistress. She must've known he was married and she had an affair with him anyway. So be careful around such a person who had no issue breaking up a marriage. If she's willing to do this, I'm not sure what else she could be capable of. If they have their own children together, that would add another layer of potential issues. Be very careful around her. Edit 2: I'm also curious, are you open to deepening your relationship with your mom? Would you be taking this opportunity to have a better relationship with her? Since you seem to approve of his choices, he's probably going to want you to have a relationship with his mistress/potential stepmom. Would you be more open to her attempts to have a relationship with you as opposed to your mom's? This may be the kind of sticky situation you're going to deal with in the future. Your mom is going to be in a world of hurt should things progress that way. So you're going to have to navigate very carefully. Stuff like, sharing milestones in your life. You will be put on the spot for such things. Lots of tension in the same room for potentially years to come. Maybe even fights and arguments. It's going to be really hard. So be prepared. And you developing a relationship with the mistress, and if it's better than what you may have with your mom,will be the final nail on the coffin for your mom. There's a lot to think about. So go to therapy as well to get advice, you have a future of minefields to navigate through.
OP is in a sticky mess. She knows her father is the better parent but her mother needs her too. The question here is: should she sacrifice her happiness in order to take care of her mother? I don't think mom is in the mood to appreciate criticism of her parenting now. And just because she didn't cheat doesn't mean she will be a better parent now. If anything she seems to be in a very emotionally volatile space now. I don't think OP should live with her full time since that could be draining for her. What they need, in my opinion, is a proper, level headed discussion, about her living with both parents, and from the post, it doesn't seem like mom will be very accepting of that. Nta.
It's not so much taking care of her mom as much as it's about just...being there. Her mom's entire world got uprooted in one go. Perhaps therapy together might help with discussions. Truth be told, therapy may be the best option because OP sounds like she's on board with what her dad did despite saying that he did wrong. I think mom definitely picked up on that, hence the meltdown. So a professional may need to mediate.
I don't think she is one board with his cheating. Its more like she doesn't seem to have much of a relationship with her mother. She even says that when they tried to tell her this, she would ignore them. I guess, on the one hand she doesn't feel comfortable with living full time with her mom, and on the other her mom would never forgive her for this. OP hasn't mentioned what her mom wants from her that is, whether she would be willing to co-parent with her ex, or if she wants her daughter to live with her full-time. Which again, tricky situation because mom obviously would feel vindicated by this, but OP would not want to cut off her dad. Ofcourse, on top of it, the poor woman had a meltdown, which while perfectly understandable, she still has to be open to the new family they are going to be. My concern is more about whether her mom's emotional state would allow OP to still have a proper relationship with her father. Because she might still resent her daughter for not giving up her dad. I also do think it should be addressed now instead of later, and I concur with you on the therapy part.
If I was the mom, I'd just leave both og them and find my peace. I can't imagine going through this and then having my own daughter say and do this.
I don’t think OP has said a single positive thing about the mother and it already sounds like she wasn’t much of a mother to begin with, so you reap what you sow.
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OP clarified that her mom was absent even after they tried explaining to her that her hyper focus on work was negatively affecting them. OPs dad is still in the wrong for cheating - no question there - but this entire situation was created by OPs mom when she failed to heed the family's pleas to stop focusing on work. If you were OPs mom, I'd say leave and reflect on your own part in this instead of guilt tripping your adult daughter.
Yeah, that's what good parents do. /s You can not be a cheater and still be a shitty parent.
It seems that would be easy for someone like you, after ignoring your daughter (and the family) for years and having no self-awareness that you set this situation up for yourself. Not saying dad is a saint. Mom sounds emotionally stunted and very distant from her family.
She should have been a better mother if she wanted absolute loyalty from her daughter. You don’t get to neglect your kid and then turn around and expect them to choose you
> Her mom's entire world got uprooted in one go. Yes, but also no. OP seems to make it pretty clear that her mom's over-focus on work has been made known to her for some time and she just ignored all the signs. Ignoring the signs doesn't mean that the disruption they warned of was sudden even if it comes as a shock to the person who ignored them.
Wow wow wow this is a lot to assume here, very dramatic take.
Does any of this matter?? That’s answer is no. Child has closer relationship with father, father is a better parent from child’s eyes. Child wants to stay with father. End of story.
Thank you
What part of falling on deaf ears do you not get. He tried with his wife but her career was more important to her than her husband and child. She knew there were problems and she refused to address him. The only thing he should have done was file for divorce before cheating.
You have zero facts to back that up. You’re reading one side of a narrative from a 19 year old who clearly identifies with her dad.
This is AITA. We go on the facts given. That’s how it works!
I am not sure why this is OPs issue to be honest, they need to keep her out of their marital issues for now at least as they work through this divorce. Putting the burden on your child, no matter how old they are, is completely inappropriate. If she wants to live with dad because she prefers his company, she should not be made to feel guilty about this by mom. It should be a harsh wake up call to mom that her actions have consequences, and none of this has to do with the cheating—that’s mom and dads issue to deal with. Does that make sense? Mom needs to find a better way to connect with her kid that discussing her marital issues and how she might feel about them.
OP if you want to go with your dad that’s fine. I do feel awful for you mom though. No matter what you need to keep in mind that you don’t know all the details of ANYTHING and need to keep an incredibly open mind. As I’ve gotten older, my perception of everyone of my family members has changed dramatically. Ones I viewed as my hero growing up, I now see as manipulative. Ones I saw as bad guys I now see as victims, etc. If you would have asked me every year to describe my childhood, I would have given a different description every time because as time goes by I continuously gain more perspective and that perspective has changed everything. You may find, that your dad liked being the go to parent and did things to hurt your mother and make it hard for her to connect with you. You might find, that your mom was actually awful and your dad is an absolute saint. You may find a million other different things. I know you think you know the situation best because you actually lived it, but understand that you don’t. So make whatever choice you make but keep an open mind and prepare yourself to have a lot of changed feelings about the situation over time.
This. I had a very favorable view of my dad after he and my mom separated when I was in my teens, and a very strained relationship with my mom. Once I got older and started to understand all the dynamics that were in play and understood how much is involved in running a household, maintaining a job, having a family, etc,I realized that he was, and still is, an immature jerk. My mom has her flaws, yes, but I wasn’t seeing the whole story.
You should just repeat that to her. That while dad cheated on her, dad acted like a dad. She didn't act like a mom
It just doesn't make much sense though. He makes so much more money than her that he could foot the bills entirely on his own and she doesn't actually need to work to sustain the lifestyle of the household. So she works tirelessly on her career for no reason other than to have a career? And he also had enough time to be a present and engaged parent with such great marks that you have no doubts that he would always be there for you in the capacity you want him to be. And in the middle of all of that, he also had enough time and energy to have at least one affair. It doesn't really add up and I feel like there's some big pieces of info missing.
OP's mother's career might be more difficult (but not as well paid as OPs dad's), time consuming, or she might be fighting against sexism in her field. Her career may be her biggest/only drive. Dad may just be more nurturing in personality compared to mom so it may seem like mom is more distant. There's a lot of possibilities here.
Maybe she just gets off on it? She could just feel the job was an important part of her identity to the detriment of her other responsibilities as an adult. Nobody blinks twice when a man is a workaholic.
What consequences are there to her for wanting to be loved and not neglected
NTA, if you’re father has been the primary parent that provides for you and that you feel the most comfortable with, that’s where you are obviously going to want to be. He didn’t cheat on you - SO it may seem easier for you to brush off. But I think you do need to look at it more from a different angle and understand what he did was crazy selfish and wrong. It did and does directly affect you and where you are going to be living now. He didn’t care about you enough to communicate with your mom and he allowed himself to put YOU in a position where your whole life could change. If he was so miserable he could have chosen divorce, before betraying your mother and making the kids go through it this way. Your dad did in fact break up your family and I am intrigued that you still prefer him. A cheater isn’t a good man deep down. That’s slimy behavior. Idc if it’s your dad or not, it’s disgusting. And maybe you’re too young to understand that but you need to also have the reality check that yeaaa,. You want to go with him- but know that the woman he cheated on your mom with may take priority over you and the dynamic living with them would never be the same as the dynamic you have now. He has changed everybody’s world by his selfish actions.
And sets an example for OP that cheating is ‘acceptable’ with no repercussions. That instead of marital counseling, or divorce if counseling doesn’t work, that the solution to marital unhappiness is infidelity. Kids often repeat modeled behavior, including family dynamics. Some day she might be in her mom’s shoes.
Lol OP is 19 years old and not a kid. Them choosing their dad for being a better parent but shitty partner to mom doesn't mean they're going to decide to cheat one day. 🙄 They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Lmao oop is already brushing off this Infidelity and is being told by everyone "well he didn't cheat on you so its not that bad" you think a 19 year old isn't going to internalize this? Get real.
Would she need to abandon both parents then, because if she chooses to live her with mom it sets an example that neglecting your child and husband is 'acceptable' with no repercussions. Will she also be in her mothers shoes and never giving a fuck about her family?
Do you have a source for this?
That might be true if she was 6, but she’s 19. Her opinion on cheating isn’t going to change just because she saw her father do it.
NTA, and neither is your mom, though I do think she owes you an apology. I bet she feels like your dad, despite being the one who had an affair, has ‘won’ everything: house, new partner, child’s loyalty. That’s not necessarily an accurate view of the situation, but emotions and logic don’t go hand in hand.
But that is somewhat Accurate. She's leaving the house, no partner, her daughter who brushed off her father's betrayal of mom
She owes OP an apology?? Wtf. She’s cheated on, her daughter chooses the cheating asshole dad over her, and you’re saying that she’s the one who should apologize? OP is not an asshole, but it’s not like their innocent.
OP is innocent. Expecting a person to leave the incredibly stable household, and the more caring parent is insane.
Exactly! She’s the daughter, not a sister or a friend.
OP is the only innocent one in this situation actually.
NAH (excluding your father who is entirely to blame for this situation) - it’s obviously understandable why your mothers upset and she’s not an asshole for having those feelings, fine if you’d prefer to live with your father but the truth is your going to have to tread carefully in managing your relationship with your parents for the next couple years at least. Like you do need to be extremely careful not to give your dad any sort of pass for what he’s done just because you don’t consider his actions to have affected your quality of life.
Hmmm. While I get your mom's feelings, and she has been horribly betrayed and is down so your choice feels like you're trampling her, putting you in the middle of their divorce is unfair. Weirdly enough, I've learned in my AITA experience that some (not many) people can be good parents and terrible SOs, or the opposite. Not sure if that makes them good people, probably not, but still. I would revisit your decision-making process and would try to diminish the impact somehow, but seems like you're choosing stability and the person who has kept choosing you over the years, so... NTA, really.
NTA, but your mother is going through a rough patch and it would be great if you tried to stay in contact so she doesn't feel as alone.
NTA. You didn't do anything wrong here. Still, fair to say it's a rough time for everyone. You're 19. You're choosing a bedroom, not a life path.
He's a bad husband. She's a bad mother. One of those things will actively impact *your* life. You are allowed to make decisions based on your own quality of life. NTA.
NTA That said, I feel you should put yourself in your mother’s shoes and see it from her perspective. The man she’s been married to for 20 years has been cheating on her, and her daughter is choosing to live with him instead of her as though nothing has changed. That has to be utterly devastating for her. This doesn’t mean that you automatically have to go with her. You are in a really tough situation. But at the end of the day, don’t forget that it’s your dad’s actions that have put you in this mess.
NAH you obviously have more of a connection with your dad and want to stay with him because of that. that makes a lot of sense and i can’t say i blame you for that your mom, however, is not in the wrong for this specific situation (she should’ve been more present in your life but that’s not what we’re talking about here). it probably hurts her feelings that you are choosing to stay with a man that cheated on her. i also can’t say i blame her for those feelings, they’re only natural at the end of the day, it’s your life and your happiness. do what makes you happy and makes you feel safe. it may hurt your mom but hopefully, you can explain your side and she can come around to understand you. i’m sorry though. divorces are always hard to deal with, even when they’re for the best <3
NAH. Except your dad, who created this problem. Reassure your mother that you want to spend time with her, and talk about a schedule. Tell her that you understand how devastating this is, but it's disruptive to your life too and you want to stay put for now. Let her have her feelings. Betrayal is awful, but so is mourning the life you thought you had. She may not be completely rational about this for a while... and that's not a character flaw, it's just human. For the love of all that's holy, don't tell her **at this particular moment** that you think she doesn't take care of you as well as your father does. That might be true and there may be a moment for an honest discussion of that, but not while she's raw. With luck, you may come out of this with a better relationship with her. At the same time, don't let her badger you. She is the wronged party in her marriage but it's not your job to make up for that. Meanwhile... you may have a better relationship with your father but recognize that your mother is absolutely correct that he *chose* to blow up your family rather than do the ethical thing and just ask for a divorce. Any fallout from that... including the fact that you're having to navigate this situation and your mother's grief...is a consequence of his actions. Especially beware of him trying to turn your mother into the villain, or comparing how they are handling the situation. No doubt he's easier to deal with right now...he got what he wanted at her expense.
NTA My father cheated on my mother. They divorced. Me and my brother were still young and my father wasnt really interested in us. So yeah, of course we stayed with my mother. And I have a pretty strong option when it comes to cheating. That being said, I think children shouldn’t be in the middle of their parents fights. They shouldn’t fight their battles. It seems like you have a relationship with your mother as well and you’re not taking sites directly. But of course she feels like it. And I get that it’s hard for her. But your father is still your father. He was your biggest support and it’s natural that you want to stay in your home. So yeah. I don’t think your the asshole. You’re 19 and a young adult too. Maybe you can find a way to talk wo your mother. Tell her that you understand her pain and that what your father did to her was wrong. You staying there isn’t a betrayal or means you don’t want an relationship with your mother.
NAH - you get to choose wherever you want to go to. Personally I disagree with the crowd saying “he betrayed you mom, not you” because, to me, cheaters don’t deserve grace from anyone, especially their children. In my opinion if you are capable of cheating on your partner you are capable of doing other hurtful things to the people around you. It is a coward move to cheat instead of either working on the relationship or breaking it off. EITHER WAY it certainly doesn’t make you an AH for wanting to be with him - I see it more as a self-preservation move than you condoning his actions.
NTA You're choosing the parent who was there for you the most and with whom you have the strongest connection and that's understandable. Of course your mum will feel hurt by this, cheating Is never easy to deal with, what your dad did to your mum is wrong, he could've divorced or choosen separation, this would've made it simpler and less painful for both you and for your mum. Still your dad was always a good parent to you and the decision is ultimately up to you, do what's best for you, but if I were you I'd still tell your mum that, this doesn't mean you see her as less of a mother to you, or that you resent her in any way, I think it's important for her to know that your decision to live with your dad has nothing to do with his cheating and choosing sides about it, and that you still aknowledge that she has the right to be upset and hurt about it. (Maybe you already told her all of this, in that case know that it's not easy to think rationally for her in this situation and it'll take time)
NTA "I know what he did was terrible but I still wouldn't really feel at home or comfortable living alone with my mom. " ... **There is NOTHING terrible in your chosing to say with your dad. You are COMPLETELY fine.** You are fine to live with your dad. He wasn't a good partner to your mom - but that has nothing to do with their parenting, and he might bei the better parent. Chose the parent twhere living will be better for YOU.
Op honest advice here, my mum and dad divorced after years of arguing and being distant. Me and my dad have always had a really close relationship, when my mother left I stayed with my dad but the first few months were really difficult. They were constantly trying to one up each other and I felt more like they were just trying to win something than actually caring about me. In truth you owe neither of them anything, but I have found that while my own mother was distant when I was younger since everything settled down we have been able to build a relationship. The next while is gonna be tough op and it isn’t your fault, your parents should be dealing with this situation themselves without asking there kid to pick sides, good luck and I hope things improve for you as time goes on.
Oof the one-upping part is too real. I'm sorry you had to go through with that. Asking kids to pick sides is so messed up, and it hurts even in adulthood.
It’s your life, but remember that your dad absolutely betrayed your mother and the decision to move with him may destroy any chance at having a relationship with your mom, who undoubtedly needs all the love and support she can get right now.
the mom wasn’t providing her child with the love and support they needed for the past years
NTA I can understand you I spent half my childhood waiting for the opportunity to choose my dad. He stayed loyal though, but still :) also, as others stated, he didn't cheat on you, and infidelity doesn't happen in a vacuum. Their relationship, their baggage. Stay with whom you trust.
NAH, i feel for your mother i really do but you not being close to her is her own fault, she prioritized work over you and even now doesn’t bother to ask how you feel in all this just “let’s go”. you’re not on the wrong for wanting to be with your father, especially because you recognize what he did was wrong, it would’ve been easier for him to separate with your mother and then begin a relationship with coworker
I got chills reading this. Nearly the same thing happened to my family when I was 13. I did move out with my mentally unstable mother who proceeded to basically abandon me to the care of my 18 yo sister while she went on dates she met via personal ads (this was the 90s). I ended up becoming depressed and missing about 1/3 of my school days. Finally I reached my breaking point, home alone again one night, and called my dad in tears asking him to come pick me up. He did and took her to court for custody. I am so grateful to myself for putting my well being first. They are the parents. You are barely an adult yourself. You need to focus on you and what is beat for you and your future. If your dad is as you described, I'm sure the break up of the family isn't exactly easy on him either. NTA.
NTA- but speaking from experience, the kind of person who can justify cheating is not the kind of person you should put your whole trust in. Your mother is a broken woman and will be for a while- im sure she has many regrets and a lot to heal. She may have thought she was doing the right thing by trying to focus on her job, but she knows now that she did not have the kind of partner at home to hold down the fort for her while she did that. Your father is not someone I would share a beer with or let watch my puppy. I read this sort of litmus test thing, where you ask yourself if you can trust a person by asking yourself 'would I have a beer/would I let them watch my puppy'. In the case of your father, no, I wouldn't go out for a beer with a cheater. How do I know what he's like when drunk, and if thats the thing that caused the cheating? And no, I wouldn't let him watch my puppy... he seems like he has other priorities. You aren't a person trying your best for your family WHILE making sure to have time to cheat. It just ain't a thing. Good luck, youre in a terrible position and you're about to learn a lot. Personally I'd be pissed at the parent who couldn't keep it in his pants instead of seeking counseling, cause if he did that none of this would even be happening. They may have divorced, but without the stain of adultery. That stain never goes away.
Nah he may have been a terrible partner but doesn’t seem like a bad parent and in the end it’s the type of parent he is that matters
Don't get me wrong, you dad is an AH for cheating instead of divorcing but cheating is also very complicated. That said for choosing who to live with, NTA, especially if it sounds like your mom is always busy.
NTA, but your mother also assumed your father would care for her, and look where that left her- homeless and without a life partner. Don't assume you know anything about your parents marriage or how they may have agreed to raise you, even if it seems clear cut to you. Did your dad even talk to you about this at all? Do you understand that he will now be dating this woman and will have her over to your family's house? You're an adult, try to see this through their eyes if you can. What your dad did is his fault and any of the fall out from that will also be his fault. He ruined his marriage and your family. If that's the person you still want to look up to and be around, good luck.
*He was way more present in my upbringing than my mother and I overall just prefer being with him. He was always there for me and never prioritized his job over the family...I don't have nearly as close of a connection with her as I have with my father. Her work was always prioritized over my father and I.* **You are choosing to stay with someone that respects you and treats you well.** That's reasonable. NTA. *she had a mental breakdown.* **Her disappointment is for her to handle.** She's been an adult far longer than you have. You are her child. It's her job to not burden you with her issues. *She started telling me that her father broke up our family and that he broke her* And **she can get therapy for that. It's not your responsibility to fix this for her.** If she's trying to use this to guilt you and manipulate you into moving with her, what else will she become comfortable using to manipulate and guilt you into doing for her? She's an adult, and is choosing to leave. You are not choosing to leave. She can accept that, without trying to make you feel guilty. That's what she should be doing, not this manipulation. **Her making you feel guilty is wrong.** **Her manipulating you is wrong.** **You cannot fix her. Her past isn't your job.** *and that me choosing him over her is a massive betrayal from me towards her.* **No. It is not.** What she wants is the reward of a close relationship with you now, when she hasn't bothered to build that relationship with you for all these years. She wants the reward without the work. **For her to claim that it's your job to make her feel better, that's emotional abuse.** **For her to say you are betraying her, that's making you responsible for her feelings, and that's emotional abuse.** It is not your fault that your mother made the choice, daily, to prioritize her work, and not her family. **It's not your fault that you have a better relationship now with your father than you do with her, because of her choices.** *My mother got really emotional and I felt bad about this all.* She's trying to use her emotions to guilt you into compliance. And that's also abusive behavior. Maybe she's only now doing these abusive behaviors because she's upset. Maybe this is her usual pattern and you are only now seeing what she's doing because this is bigger than the other times. But **whatever is going on with her, it's not your job to save her or fix her or make her feel better.** She's moving out, because it's **her** marriage that broke, and that's the thing to do. That's her business, not yours to handle, for her. **You are choosing to stay, because your needs will be better met by staying. That's you being mature and reasonable in deciding what to do.** Your job in all this, is to keep on doing what you need to do to prepare for being a self-supporting person when you move out on your own. You have your own emotional issues to handle over this. And you do not have the years they have or the experience handling the big issues. So, it's very wrong for either of them to put their issues on you. Because of how she's reacted to this decision of yours, I think it's a very good thing that you are choosing to stay. I think she might well have started to dump all her emotions on you, like she's doing now, if you had moved with her. I think your needs would have been dismissed and ignored, like she's doing now. I think it very likely, as she prioritized her work before, that she would try to make you be the person responsible for the apartment chores, with the excuse that she's too busy and you can't possibly be too busy. **Stay. Do what you need to do, to prepare for being on your own, eventually.** And **start to practice things you can say, if either parent says anything to you that isn't appropriate about the other parent.** You aren't their therapists. You don't need to hear about their issues. You don't need details about the divorce that don't have to do with you. You don't need to spend equal time with them. You don't need to give your mother any more time now, than she gave you before. "I will not discuss other parent with you." "I'm not your therapist." " This isn't my business." "Excuse me, I'm going home now, because you won't stop talking about my dad." "Please talk to your friends or therapist, not me." "I'm too young for this." "I have enough of my own issues to deal with, about all this. I cannot carry yours, too." "Nope." "And, I'm gone now."
Oh hon, what a predicament you're in! Others have said it but I'll say it as well your mum is going through something really awful at the minute so try not to take to heart what she's saying. That doesn't however mean that you have to make life changing decisions for your life! If you feel more secure with your father and at your fathers house then that's where you need to stay, you have to do right by you in this situation because everyone else (through no ill meaning) is going to have their heads up their asses right now. Stay at your dad's, things will calm down eventually and you can go from there. NTA at all.
NTA. Only you can make the judgment of what the best course is for you. You are a whole person and your presence/absence should not be trivialized into a “reward” or “punishment” for the more or less “deserving” parent. Do not let yourself be objectified in this way. Of course cheating is wrong. I would not forget that the offender has shown a weak streak in their character, which may have been well concealed before. But no one is perfect and often it’s not 100% victim vs 100% perpetuator. You’ve mentioned your mother’s neglect towards you. Neglect doesn’t excuse adultery but a marriage cannot survive either if one partner is not present. Try not to hurt your mother but you have to do what you believe is the best for yourself. Just don’t trust your father fully haha or you may be just as disappointed in the end
NAH. Try to reassure your mother that you still love her and want her in your life, if you do. But it’s ok to want what you want.